[0:48] Um, it's 4 o'clock, so I'd like to ask

[0:51] uh that we call the meeting to order.

[0:55] » Can we have a roll call, please?

[0:57] » Board member Dyer

[0:58] » Here.

[0:59] » Board member Guiieri

[1:00] » Here.

[1:01] » Board member Rinstein,

[1:03] » Board member Boris,

[1:04] » Here.

[1:05] » And Chair Croman,

[1:06] » Here. Will you rise and join me in the

[1:08] pledge of allegiance?

[1:13] » I pledge allegiance to the flag

[1:15] » Of the United States of America and to

[1:18] the republic for which it stands, one

[1:20] nation under God, indivisible, with

[1:24] liberty and justice for all.

[1:29] » Thank you.

[1:34] Do we have any public appearances? Any

[1:36] um people from the public that wish to

[1:38] speak on items not part of the agenda?

[1:44] » Do we have anybody online? Shelby. Okay.

[1:46] Hearing none, we'll go forward with the

[1:48] board member announcements. Any board

[1:50] member announcements?

[1:50] » Yes, I have.

[1:51] » Yes, ma'am.

[1:52] » Do you have your thing on?

[1:56] » Yes. The middle. I think

[1:57] » The I think it's on.

[1:59] » It's on. The um next year is the 52nd

[2:03] anniversary of Joanne Matthew's book,

[2:06] The Fairy Tale Houses of Carmemell, and

[2:08] it's a seminal book about Hugh

[2:09] Commtock's Fairy Tale Houses. I'd like

[2:12] to propose honoring Joanne by a

[2:14] proclamation being drafted, given to the

[2:16] historic resources board for review, and

[2:18] presented by the mayor and the city

[2:20] council. I brought a copy of the

[2:22] original book. If anyone would like to

[2:25] take a look at it after the meeting,

[2:27] you're welcome to do that. Joanne

[2:29] Matthew is no longer with with us. I

[2:31] believe she had a son. I could possibly

[2:33] find him. She also had a good friend

[2:35] that worked at a shop next to Piccadilly

[2:38] Park. And so there would be at least

[2:40] since she's not with us, there would be

[2:42] at least a couple of people that knew

[2:43] her if this were to come about. Um

[2:47] that's pretty much my announcement.

[2:50] » Thank you.

[2:51] Any others?

[2:55] Okay, hearing none, we'll move forward

[2:56] with the consent agenda.

[2:59] Um, we have the regular meeting minutes

[3:02] for the August 17th uh meeting as well

[3:05] as the special joint session meeting

[3:08] minutes from September 9th.

[3:10] Any comments on either one of those?

[3:16] » I had a question about the September 9th

[3:18] meeting.

[3:22] Kathy, there was You mentioned this I

[3:24] think earlier was the uh my impression

[3:27] of the planning commission motion was

[3:29] that the the condition of approval was

[3:34] more of a not a condition of approval

[3:36] but a something for the architects to

[3:39] consider which was about the guardrail.

[3:43] » If that did not make it into the minutes

[3:45] uh Shelby and I will revise them and

[3:47] bring it back to you because that is my

[3:49] understanding as well

[3:50] » That it was not a condition of approval.

[3:51] I think it was noted as a one. So that's

[3:53] » Okay.

[3:54] » Okay. Thank you.

[3:55] » We'll bring it back next month with an

[3:56] edit because I also understood that

[3:59] discussion of the railing wraparound to

[4:01] be a suggestion, not a requirement.

[4:03] » Great.

[4:03] » Good.

[4:04] » Thank you.

[4:06] » Any other comments on the minutes?

[4:08] » So we'll remove the September 9th from

[4:11] that and

[4:12] » Y. Okay. Do we have a

[4:14] » Second?

[4:15] » Yep. Okay. There we go. Um, so we have a

[4:19] approve a request for approval and a

[4:20] second. Can we have a vote, please?

[4:22] » I'm so sorry. Who made the initial

[4:24] motion? I couldn't.

[4:24] » I can make it. I can make it. [laughter]

[4:26] Sorry.

[4:27] » Thank you. Okay. Roll call vote. Board

[4:30] member Dyer.

[4:31] » Yes.

[4:31] » Board member Guiieri.

[4:32] » Yes.

[4:33] » Board member Rinstein.

[4:34] » Yes.

[4:34] » Board member Voris.

[4:35] » Yes.

[4:36] » And Chair Croman,

[4:37] » Yes.

[4:37] » Motion passes.

[4:38] » Thank you. Okay. Now, we'll go on to

[4:40] orders of business with the first order

[4:41] of business being an information brief

[4:44] on the forge in the forest. Um, I I want

[4:48] to stipulate that this is an information

[4:50] brief, not a decision brief. And

[4:51] Katherine's going to walk us through the

[4:53] process. I'm certainly happy to hear any

[4:55] thoughts that uh our public has. Um, and

[4:58] then the board will take up a discussion

[5:00] if they feel they need to. So, can we

[5:02] have the staff report, please?

[5:04] » Thank you, Chair Croman. Um, I don't

[5:07] have a presentation for this item, but

[5:08] at the chair's request, I'll simply

[5:10] review the project timeline uh from the

[5:13] start to where we are now. So, bear with

[5:15] me. It is a lengthy one. I'll go back to

[5:18] uh January 31st, 2025, which is when the

[5:21] project um the property owner submitted

[5:24] a historic evaluation and uh paid their

[5:26] fees. In February of 2025, staff

[5:29] determined that a phase one initial

[5:31] historic assessment was not necessary

[5:34] due to assoc known associations with

[5:36] builder Hugh Commtock and iron worker

[5:39] Francis Whitaker. Therefore, rather than

[5:42] do the initial historic assessment,

[5:44] staff directed Margaret Clovis, a

[5:46] qualified professional under contract to

[5:48] the city, to go ahead and skip to the

[5:50] next step, which is to prepare a phase

[5:51] one intensive historic assessment uh in

[5:54] the format of a California parks and

[5:56] recreation DPR form.

[5:59] So, just to clarify, um, with the

[6:01] knowledge that there's a potentially a

[6:03] significant builder and a significant

[6:05] individual, we can just go straight to

[6:06] the most intensive evaluation that the

[6:08] city performs. In March of 2025, Miss

[6:12] Clovis completes that uh intensive

[6:14] assessment, the DPR form, which

[6:16] concluded that the property is eligible

[6:18] under California Register criterion 2

[6:22] person because Francis Whitaker uh the

[6:24] iron worker contributed to Carmel's

[6:26] ongoing artistic community and is

[6:29] considered a nationally renowned

[6:30] blacksmith. However, because the

[6:32] building does not retain substantial

[6:34] integrity, it is not eligible for

[6:36] listing on the Carmel Historic

[6:38] Inventory.

[6:40] Uh in in March, staff prepared a

[6:42] preliminary determination of

[6:44] ineligibility, emails that determination

[6:46] to all historic resources board members

[6:49] and the property owner and applicant and

[6:51] post it online. And at the end of this

[6:53] presentation, I'm going to just walk

[6:55] everyone through where those online

[6:57] postings can be found. In April 2025, um

[7:02] the 10 calendar day appeal period closed

[7:04] without any appeals being received from

[7:06] the public and without any historic

[7:08] resources board member calling up the

[7:10] determination for further discussion uh

[7:13] which the code does describe as an

[7:15] option.

[7:17] And then uh later that month, April

[7:20] 22nd, 2025, a design review application

[7:24] for the corner market restaurant was

[7:26] submitted with fees paid in May. There

[7:29] were no proposed changes to the seat

[7:31] count, either interior or exterior, nor

[7:34] an increase in floor area, or change in

[7:36] the use as a full-line restaurant. The

[7:39] former planning and building director,

[7:41] Anna Janette, categorizes the project as

[7:44] a track 1 major design review.

[7:47] And then in November 2025, Miss Janette

[7:50] approves design the design review

[7:52] application. Uh the approval is mailed

[7:55] to all property owners within 100 ft of

[7:58] the project site as the code requires

[8:00] and the approved plans again were posted

[8:02] online. No inquiries or appeals were

[8:05] received during the 10 calendar day

[8:06] appeal period.

[8:08] That brings us to 2026. Uh in March,

[8:11] board member Katherine Guieri inquires

[8:14] via email as to the safeguarding of the

[8:16] forge artifacts. Uh later that month,

[8:19] planning staff contacted Thomas Hood,

[8:21] architect and president of the Carmel

[8:23] Heritage Society, regarding the possible

[8:25] relocation of the forge and anvil. Mr.

[8:29] Hood expressed interest in relocating

[8:31] the artifacts to the first Murphy House

[8:32] property. Uh planning staff provided

[8:35] photos of the artifacts and contact

[8:37] information for the corner market

[8:39] project team so that uh Mr. Hood could

[8:41] arrange a site visit.

[8:43] In April, the historic resources board

[8:45] briefly discusses the potential artifact

[8:48] relocation plan. During the meeting

[8:51] in August, uh the building permit was

[8:54] issued in accordance with the design

[8:56] review plans.

[8:58] Uh, in late August, the city building

[9:00] official and the building inspector go

[9:02] out to conduct an inspection and they

[9:04] identify a requirement to replace all

[9:06] framing members on on a north wall uh a

[9:10] part of the north wall. Due to severe

[9:13] rot and termite infestation, the framing

[9:15] was beyond repair and the building

[9:17] official ordered ordered them to be

[9:19] replaced.

[9:21] Uh August 26th, Thomas Hood of the

[9:24] Heritage Society calls um Justin Cogley

[9:27] of the Corner Market Team and emails

[9:29] planning staff to relay that the forge,

[9:31] which the rough dimensions are uh 60 in

[9:34] wide by 64 in deep, 87 in tall, should

[9:37] be housed in a heated space, and Mr.

[9:40] Hood offers that the two reasons we, the

[9:43] Heritage Society, cannot put it in the

[9:44] first Murphy house. Size, we have very

[9:47] limited space for exhibits and

[9:49] gatherings. weight. The floor would not

[9:51] carry the weight of this large object.

[9:53] We're guessing it could be 600 pounds or

[9:55] more. Uh September 1st, planning staff

[9:58] meets with the corner market team to

[10:00] discuss a forthcoming submitt of a

[10:02] building permit revision that would

[10:04] reflect that required north wall

[10:06] reframing as well as roof repair. The

[10:08] corner market team additionally shares

[10:11] that the whereabouts of the anvil are

[10:12] unknown. The anvil was separate from the

[10:15] forge unlike the other ironworking tools

[10:17] which are welded onto the forge.

[10:20] The wood bar from the former Forge in

[10:22] the Forest restaurant is in the

[10:23] possession of the former property owner

[10:25] as agreed upon with the current owner.

[10:27] Uh the former owner does not know the

[10:29] whereabouts of the anvil.

[10:31] September 9th, uh the corner market team

[10:34] emails the city to say, "We would like

[10:36] to gift the original forge to the city

[10:38] of Carmel by the Sea. As agreed, the

[10:40] city would coordinate its removal and

[10:42] relocation over the next couple of

[10:44] weeks, no later than September 25th, as

[10:47] construction continues to move forward.

[10:49] Uh September 19th, planning staff

[10:51] engages with public works to initiate

[10:53] collection of bids to relocate the

[10:54] forge. September 14, uh HRB Chair Jordan

[10:59] Croman requests staff add this as a

[11:01] discussion uh as an order of business to

[11:04] this evening's meeting. September 15th,

[11:08] uh, acting city administrator Brandon

[11:09] Swanson directs public works to collect

[11:13] those quotes, which will involve

[11:15] disconnecting the forge gas line. The

[11:17] forge had been retrofitted as a

[11:19] fireplace, likely during the 1970s

[11:21] conversion to a restaurant, and move the

[11:24] forge to a temporary storage location

[11:26] yet to be determined. On the 17th, uh,

[11:29] the corner market team confirms via

[11:32] email, "We are very pleased to provide a

[11:34] plaque inside or outside TBD honoring

[11:37] the building's history. We will

[11:38] thoughtfully determine the plaque's

[11:40] wording, size, and design to ensure it

[11:42] is a tasteful tribute to Carmel by the

[11:44] Seas heritage.

[11:46] September 18th, city contracts with a

[11:49] professional mover at a cost of

[11:50] approximately $5,000 to safely relocate

[11:54] the forge to temporary city storage. And

[11:56] the city will continue to look for

[11:58] opportunities to safely display the

[11:59] forge for public education in the

[12:01] future.

[12:03] Uh that concludes my timeline and I'm

[12:07] happy to answer any questions about the

[12:09] timeline from the board um or the

[12:11] public.

[12:12] » Great. Thank you. Um, does the board

[12:14] have any [clears throat] questions for

[12:16] staff?

[12:20] » I guess I I have one just to start with.

[12:23] The location of the anvil, I mean,

[12:25] that's a 600lb anvil or whatever it is.

[12:27] Um, have we have we narrowed down where

[12:29] we think it is?

[12:31] » So, uh, the forge and the anvil are two

[12:33] separate items. It's the forge that is

[12:35] the approximately 600 lb item. the

[12:39] anvil. Um if if you look in the the

[12:41] photos, it was sitting next to the forge

[12:44] in photos I could find from um Yelp,

[12:48] Google, the restaurant reviews, those

[12:50] photos do show an anvil. The current

[12:52] property owner has relayed that they

[12:54] never they've never seen it. When they

[12:56] took ownership, they haven't seen it.

[12:59] » And I did reach out to the former

[13:01] property owner who confirms they do not

[13:03] have it.

[13:04] » Okay. Thank you. Other questions for the

[13:08] staff?

[13:11] Um I I have one other question then just

[13:14] um so in the in our reading material um

[13:17] it mentioned that Francis Whitaker was

[13:19] not on the Carmel historic statement um

[13:24] why is that?

[13:28] » Where where in the reading material the

[13:30] cont historic cont historic context

[13:33] statement. Yeah. Um

[13:35] » It was it is it was somewhere.

[13:38] » Yeah.

[13:39] » Um

[13:39] » I read that too.

[13:40] » Yeah. I don't have it exactly.

[13:44] » Um

[13:46] but I I was just curious just that you

[13:47] know he's obviously a a very renowned

[13:50] blacksmith um you know contribute a lot

[13:52] to Carmel um in his own right. And I was

[13:55] just wondering why he wasn't on there.

[13:59] Shoot.

[14:00] » I will certainly do a search to see if

[14:03] Francis would occur. is in the context

[14:05] statement or not and we have a you know

[14:06] a running list of edits when the

[14:08] document will next be updated and if he

[14:11] is not in there he will be added.

[14:12] » Mhm.

[14:16] » Uh yeah it's on page five of 11. Um it

[14:20] says

[14:22] uh Francis Whitaker is Whitaker Whitaker

[14:26] is not included in Carmel's historic

[14:27] context statement. However, the context

[14:29] statement explains that exclusion from

[14:30] the historic context statement does not

[14:32] preclude importance to car Carmel's

[14:35] history referencing page 186.

[14:38] » That's correct.

[14:39] » Okay.

[14:40] » And so the consultant did, you know,

[14:41] even though he is not listed in the

[14:43] context statement, she did identify him

[14:45] as a very significant individual.

[14:47] » Yeah. I think that would be a person

[14:49] though that we would want to nominate

[14:50] onto that statement, right? Yeah. Okay.

[14:54] Any other thoughts?

[14:57] Okay. Um, we will go ahead and open up

[15:00] for public discussion. Uh, any members

[15:02] of the public wish to comment on this

[15:06] situation, please come forward, state

[15:08] your name.

[15:15] » Nancy Tumi, resident. Thank you for what

[15:17] you're doing. Um, I did send a letter in

[15:20] to you, which you've all seen, so I

[15:22] won't repeat what was in there. I guess

[15:24] my um you know personal concern is that

[15:29] the the exterior elements of this

[15:33] property be as uh maintained as best as

[15:38] possible as this continues to go through

[15:40] whatever its logical life cycle is to

[15:44] get it to current and functioning mode.

[15:47] Um you know as I had mentioned we've

[15:49] been you know dined there [snorts]

[15:51] times over the years and um that very

[15:54] rustic nature of that venue is critical

[15:59] to maintain from just a general public

[16:02] uh perspective and again respecting the

[16:05] fact that um where deterioration has

[16:08] occurred you've got to do some

[16:09] refreshment of of [clears throat] uh to

[16:12] make things stable and safe and uh

[16:14] following all the appropriate uh

[16:16] regulations. along those lines. But um I

[16:19] I'm just concerned that the path that

[16:21] this is on right now will have a very

[16:23] bright and sparkling uh clean and crisp

[16:26] and new feel when rustic and high

[16:30] character is more in tune to what a lot

[16:34] of uh us as pure patrons of that

[16:37] location would look forward to seeing

[16:40] maintained. So, a casual observation,

[16:43] not historically relevant, maybe not

[16:45] process relevant, but uh nonetheless

[16:48] just reflects an opinion that many

[16:49] people have. Thank [snorts] you very

[16:51] much for your consideration.

[16:53] » Thank you, ma'am.

[16:55] Other members of the public wish to

[16:57] comment.

[16:59] [clears throat]

[17:02] [snorts]

[17:06] [clears throat]

[17:07] Excuse me. I'm Neil Cruz. I want to uh

[17:11] thank the chairman Jordan for realizing

[17:14] what was going on and trying to bring

[17:16] attention to it. I really appreciate

[17:18] that. Julie went did a amazing amount of

[17:21] work on this. So many people actually

[17:23] have helped. Katherine Wallace and

[17:26] Carol Hall did a lot of work on this. So

[17:28] I just want to thank everybody that has

[17:30] participated this and I know I've left

[17:32] out some names. Um I want to thinking

[17:35] about what to contribute. Well, I was

[17:36] the designer of Forging the Forest

[17:38] Gumble Store for 10 years, and I worked

[17:40] directly with Dan Glosser. We turned it

[17:42] into what it finally became. We married

[17:45] the two parcels together. It was a 5,000

[17:48] uh square foot parcel that is now a

[17:50] 10,000t parcel. We married it with the

[17:53] property below. I believe in one of

[17:54] those offices uh we may have had u the

[17:59] Coast Weekly, you know, is had a small

[18:01] office down there. But anyway, he

[18:03] married those two sites together. Uh, it

[18:06] started when I got a call from a guy by

[18:08] the name of Dan Glosser and he says, 'I

[18:10] was told I should talk to you about

[18:11] doing some design work at the forge and

[18:13] he says, 'I'm bringing five designers

[18:15] in. I'm going to give you each an area

[18:17] to do a design and then I'm going to

[18:19] pick one of you to be the designer for

[18:20] the project. He picked me and that began

[18:24] I don't know if it was 10 or 12 years.

[18:27] But to give you some idea, at one point

[18:28] Brian Rose said to Dan and I, because we

[18:30] were going into the planning commission,

[18:32] it was every, you know, almost every

[18:34] meeting, Dan had something else he

[18:36] wanted to do. As soon as we finished a

[18:38] commission meeting, he was with me, "No,

[18:39] no, we're going to do this, this, and

[18:40] that. Write that up for me by tomorrow.

[18:42] I want to see that tomorrow." And uh,

[18:46] Brian Rose said to us one day, he said,

[18:47] "Neil, do you realize that your file is

[18:49] now bigger than the entire Carmel

[18:51] Plaza?" He said, "That's how much work

[18:53] you guys have done on this thing." This

[18:55] was Dan's love. Dan was called Dan the

[18:57] Ride Man. His father was best friends

[18:59] with Walt Disney. And Dan knew all of

[19:02] the designers in the world of theme

[19:05] centers. Okay? And his friends were

[19:08] people that designed theme centers

[19:09] around the world. And so he started

[19:12] inviting them to his house which was in

[19:14] in Caramel Woods area. And he would say,

[19:16] "Neil, I want you to take these guys,

[19:18] show them where we want to work, and and

[19:20] and put them to work." And so, uh, I

[19:24] did. Only the interesting thing about it

[19:26] was they they just had pads of paper and

[19:28] pencil and they just went to work like

[19:31] this. And in in seconds, they had

[19:34] complete designs. They had pictures.

[19:36] They had So, the uh the designer uh the

[19:38] the number one designer, the Frontier

[19:40] Village did the interior of the General

[19:43] Store uh which was the two-story

[19:46] building behind the forge, which also

[19:48] had a kitchen and a dining room in it at

[19:50] the time.

[19:52] Uh Dan had made very good friends with

[19:55] many designers in Germany and so he

[19:57] asked them to do special woodwork for

[19:59] this was mostly for the lower property.

[20:02] A lot of the woodwork that you see on

[20:03] that actually came from Germany. The

[20:05] plans came in German. I had learned some

[20:07] German. So Dan asked me to translate the

[20:09] plans and then it was my job to turn

[20:11] this over to the contractor and build

[20:13] it. Uh Dan, this was Dan's love. He

[20:18] absolutely this meant everything to him.

[20:21] uh he was not happy with what happened

[20:24] in in the years that followed, but I

[20:25] said, you know, that's that's the way it

[20:27] goes. But uh you guys, there are so many

[20:30] stories. I there were so many famous

[20:31] people that had to come here. So many

[20:33] people that got married here or they,

[20:36] you know, they pitched their proposal to

[20:39] their mate at the forge. They had to do

[20:41] it because this was the most magical

[20:43] place in the city. Uh, so now all of

[20:47] that and I I'm sorry I was out of the

[20:49] loop so long and thank you to Julie Went

[20:51] for bringing it to our awareness and uh

[20:54] when I first saw a friend of mine took

[20:56] photographs of it after it had been

[20:58] changed and I went into a pretty bad

[21:01] funk. I was depressed for a while. Dan

[21:04] and I both got depressed when the

[21:05] general store was removed. But uh this

[21:08] really hit me hard and I just I just

[21:11] wanted to say something about what a

[21:14] glorious and incredible and magical

[21:16] place this was. Perhaps one of the most

[21:18] magical places in all of Carmel history.

[21:21] Dan would send me out. He'd say, "Neil,

[21:23] I Francis Whitaker is going to he's

[21:25] going to give a talk in Carmel. You get

[21:26] over there and here's what I want from

[21:28] him. I want this story and that story

[21:30] and I want some paperwork." So Francis

[21:32] was giving us stuff to put up at the

[21:34] forge. Uh, one morning Dan calls me up

[21:37] early and says, "We're going to San Juan

[21:39] Batista." And I said, "What the hell

[21:40] for?" And he said, "You'll know. Just

[21:42] get ready. Get dressed." And we drove to

[21:44] San Juan Batista. We went to all the

[21:45] flea markets and we were picking out old

[21:47] horseshoes and old metal and old uh

[21:50] rusty pliers and everything that we

[21:53] could get. And I finally said, "What is

[21:55] this for, Dan?" And he says, "We're

[21:57] going to weld it against the anvil in in

[22:00] the store and we're going to make a

[22:01] frame around." So all of that metal work

[22:03] that you see that was welded onto the

[22:06] hearth uh we did because Dan that was

[22:09] Dan's idea to do it. So I'm

[22:15] I don't I don't know where to go from

[22:16] here. Is it is it too late? I I I want

[22:18] to say I understand the problems with

[22:20] code when you have ADA. You know you're

[22:23] not going to get around that. But I will

[22:24] tell you this. Tim did Tim

[22:27] loved Carmel. He loved the old buildings

[22:29] in here. And we had many a negotiation,

[22:32] you know, uh, well, Neil, if we put a

[22:35] 5-ft circle in this bathroom, the

[22:36] bathroom's toast, right? And I don't

[22:38] want to see the bathrooms go. So, let's

[22:40] let's work this out. How can you make

[22:42] this door wider? Can you make this

[22:43] opening bigger? And so Tim worked with

[22:46] us on everything to get as close to ADA

[22:48] as we could, but he had the power at

[22:50] that time to say, "I'm not going to

[22:51] force the whole thing on you."

[22:53] Inspectors today do not. So, I don't

[22:55] want that laid on on the current

[22:56] inspection group. they would never get

[22:58] away with what Tim did. But Tim saved

[23:00] Carmel to a great extent. So the only

[23:04] thing that um

[23:06] I find really kind of Oh, by the way, we

[23:08] have new information that was just given

[23:10] to us 5 minutes before the meeting uh in

[23:14] a phone call. And uh I don't know if the

[23:17] information is solid enough for me to

[23:18] say in this meeting, but we have not

[23:21] been informed of everything. And this

[23:23] information comes from the Propheta

[23:25] family. We did not have time to get it

[23:27] together for this meeting, but I def it

[23:29] it is going to make a difference in the

[23:31] way people see what happened over this

[23:32] project. So I would like to get that

[23:35] together and submit this to the HRB

[23:37] perhaps in written form if that's the

[23:39] way to do it because we just don't have

[23:42] it right now. But just to give you an

[23:44] idea and this may or may not be true.

[23:47] What we have heard is that Espironza

[23:49] retained the ownership of the name forge

[23:52] in the forest and it has always been

[23:55] under the ownership of Espironza. We did

[23:58] not know this or hear this. There's

[24:00] several other things uh that are

[24:01] connected to that. So I don't want to

[24:03] get into those without knowing exactly

[24:05] what they are, but we'll we'll get this

[24:06] to you guys in a letter. Okay. Thank you

[24:09] very much for your time. And if there is

[24:11] any way for any of the the parts, the

[24:13] pieces, you know, we can't find the

[24:15] anvil.

[24:18] Boy, somebody really did care about our

[24:19] history, didn't they? We've heard that

[24:21] it may be worth a lot of money. Maybe

[24:23] they just saw it as a good way to get

[24:24] rich quick. Wow. Really hurts you guys.

[24:28] It I think more and more the oldtime

[24:32] residents of Caramel are just feeling

[24:34] they don't matter. You know, they're not

[24:36] heard. But I did feel that you you did,

[24:38] sir. And I want to thank you for that

[24:40] and everybody else who helped with this.

[24:42] Thank you very much.

[24:44] » Thank you very much.

[24:46] [clears throat]

[24:52] » Hello all. Um

[24:56] well I feel like a Johnny come lately in

[24:58] all of this and and really became aware

[25:00] of what was going on when uh several

[25:04] residents started calling me to say have

[25:06] you seen what's happened at the forge?

[25:08] And you know, you see the bulldozer in

[25:10] there and everything's gone. Um, and and

[25:13] the the restaurant part is in studs and

[25:17] everyone was so alarmed. Um, so then I

[25:21] started looking at at what was going on

[25:23] and was uh met with Janet Alarmo, the

[25:27] manager um wife of uh Justin Codley and

[25:32] uh

[25:34] and she, you know, we went back and

[25:36] found that um Meg Clovis had said uh it

[25:39] was not salvageable, that too much had

[25:41] been done to it, etc.

[25:43] And um and I get that the building

[25:45] itself was in terrible shape and um that

[25:48] was a problem, but I didn't feel like uh

[25:51] enough weight had been given to Francis

[25:53] Whitaker and the name that he is. And I

[25:56] guess Katherine, you were uh interested

[25:58] in that as well. Um and the fact that

[26:02] this was the forge in the forest and

[26:03] what Janet told me was that that the

[26:06] former owners asked that they not call

[26:08] it forge in the forest. Uh but now

[26:11] that's in question. I'm not sure what

[26:13] happened there, but it is the forge in

[26:15] the forest. And um and when I met with

[26:19] Chris Mitchell several months before

[26:22] uh and knew that they Esparonza had

[26:25] bought the property, I said, you know,

[26:27] he said it's not historic. And I said,

[26:29] well, you may not call the building

[26:31] historic, but I said this is a historic

[26:34] site. This is where Francis Whitaker, a

[26:36] historic figure, did his work. And this

[26:39] is where he created a lot of the work

[26:42] that goes on that that's on buildings in

[26:45] Carmeill by the Sea. So, uh I said that

[26:48] that's something that really has to be

[26:50] protected. In my meeting with uh Janet,

[26:54] I found out that they had no plans to

[26:56] keep the forge at the unit at the place

[26:59] there. I asked about the back of the uh

[27:03] bar as well, which was a lovely wooden

[27:06] piece. I don't know if you remember. Uh

[27:08] that was taken by the former owners. Uh

[27:10] because

[27:12] they the new owners said, "You can take

[27:14] whatever you want, basically." So, they

[27:17] took it. Uh and I said, "Well, what's

[27:19] happened with the tools and the anvil?"

[27:21] I didn't realize the anvil was missing

[27:23] at that point. I'm not sure Janet knew

[27:25] that the anvil was missing. And she

[27:27] said, "Well, we don't want it." She

[27:29] said, 'It doesn't go with our decor.

[27:33] It's going to be light, she said. So,

[27:36] uh, at that point, I became somewhat

[27:39] alarmed what would happen to the forge.

[27:42] And so, I talked to Thomas Hood and, uh,

[27:46] uh, Katherine and a number of people.

[27:49] Uh, I even asked Dale if he would build

[27:52] something to put the forge in like at

[27:55] the back patio of of the Heritage

[27:57] Society or something like that or in in

[27:59] the park, you know, there. Um, and I

[28:02] guess Dale had actually asked if the

[28:04] Carmel Heritage uh no Carmel uh what is

[28:09] it the uh Hienda Carmel in Carmel Valley

[28:12] would take it. And that made me upset

[28:14] because I thought that's out of Carmel,

[28:16] you know, that I'd rather have it there

[28:17] than no no place. But it's it's out of

[28:20] Caramel. I think it should be in Carmel.

[28:22] So, uh, and I had suggested maybe

[28:24] Flanders Mansion, you know, could we

[28:26] make that into a Carmel museum? Um, as a

[28:30] as another idea that I mean, there must

[28:33] be some place we can put it in Carmel.

[28:34] So, the city is storing it on a

[28:38] temporary basis, I think, right across

[28:40] the street in those steel, you know,

[28:43] those parts in the Vista Lobos area. Um

[28:47] but but I sure hope we can find some

[28:50] place for it if so if we can't have it

[28:53] at the forge. And so there were three

[28:55] things I asked Janet for. One was uh

[28:59] when you call it corner market or

[29:00] whatever you want to call it. I mean we

[29:02] already have two corner markets and it's

[29:04] not really a market. It's a restaurant

[29:06] but anyway uh whatever they want to call

[29:08] it to put it underneath in smaller print

[29:12] at the Village Forge because that's

[29:14] where it is. It's at the Village Forge.

[29:17] Um, she did not commit to that. Uh, I

[29:21] asked them to at least put a plaque up

[29:23] within view of the public [laughter]

[29:27] that explains that this was the village

[29:29] forge and the Francis Whitaker and the

[29:32] dates. And I thought HRB could probably

[29:34] help them with that. The wording on that

[29:37] plaque. She agreed to that. Um, I asked

[29:41] that they keep the forge at the site and

[29:45] she did not agree with that and that was

[29:48] a stronger no. I suggested that possibly

[29:51] right inside, you know, where the u

[29:55] uh onipro street where the um

[29:59] garage is, the garage uh doors that they

[30:03] make that folding out like barn doors

[30:06] and put it right in there. Thomas Hood

[30:08] thought it would take about a 3x5 foot

[30:10] space, which isn't much um for the

[30:13] forge, and that could be kind of

[30:15] separate from the from the restaurant

[30:17] essentially. I guess there's some

[30:19] electrical equipment in there, so I

[30:21] don't know. But she said, "Well, we've

[30:22] already made our plans and we have our

[30:25] where we're putting our walls and so

[30:26] forth." Um, and anyway, that would be

[30:30] perfect because then it could be closed

[30:32] up when the restaurant was closed,

[30:33] opened up when the restaurant was open,

[30:35] and people even right on the street

[30:37] could see it. And if there was a plaque

[30:38] there to explain what it was and it was

[30:40] Francis Whitaker, I think that would be

[30:41] ideal. But I haven't gotten too far with

[30:44] that idea, but I'll keep pushing.

[30:46] Um,

[30:48] so I I think it's uh I think there were

[30:52] a number of circumstances that happened

[30:55] to fall together one after another after

[30:57] another that created this problem. And I

[31:01] think it's really a shame that we didn't

[31:03] uh address this initially and find out

[31:06] what we really needed to do to save this

[31:08] in one form or another. Um the new

[31:11] owners, yes, they got permission to do

[31:14] whatever they wanted, so we can't fault

[31:16] them. Uh they can do whatever they want.

[31:18] But um but this was this was a really

[31:21] important place in Carmel and it had the

[31:24] feel of Carmel and it was wonderful. And

[31:27] uh there are a lot of people who are not

[31:29] here today that were very upset about

[31:31] it. They hate coming to meetings. You

[31:33] know how that goes. So uh anyway, I

[31:37] guess I hope that you can carry forward

[31:39] with helping this process be the best

[31:42] one it can be given where we stand at

[31:44] this point. Thank you.

[31:46] » Thank you.

[31:50] [clears throat]

[32:00] Good afternoon, Chair Croman, members of

[32:01] the HRB. My name is Cindy Lloyd. In

[32:04] preface, I will say Francis Whitaker was

[32:06] a family friend. I knew him. I used to

[32:08] go to the forge and watch him fashion

[32:10] things and out of metal with his hammer.

[32:13] And the thing I remember most about him

[32:15] was his hat. It was a little very short

[32:19] little black hat with a little brim. And

[32:21] when I saw photos of him recently, I

[32:22] said, "Yeah, that's that." Well, anyway,

[32:24] [clears throat]

[32:25] um I have a request. May I indulge in

[32:28] your generosity by granting me a bit

[32:30] more time to share my comments and read

[32:33] excerpts from Julie Went's letter as she

[32:35] is out of the country? If so, I shall

[32:38] start with the front page story from the

[32:41] October 29, 1999 issue of the Pine Cone.

[32:45] Thank you.

[32:48] And it is this

[33:01] if you can see it.

[33:05] » I'm not sure what you're showing us.

[33:07] It's a little bit hard to see from here.

[33:08] » It's probably hard to see from there,

[33:09] but anyway over the forage, right?

[33:12] » Yeah. this picture of Francis at his

[33:13] anvil and the um

[33:18] now I'll go back to my written statement

[33:21] [laughter]

[33:23] [clears throat]

[33:25] below a photo of Francis Whitaker is the

[33:27] headline iron yielded to powerful man's

[33:30] touch.

[33:34] He had died just days before, reportedly

[33:36] [clears throat]

[33:37] with his hammer beside him. In 1922, at

[33:41] the age of 15, Francis Whitaker told his

[33:43] father that he wanted to end his formal

[33:45] education and start working. Quote, "I

[33:49] had always been big for my age and had

[33:52] always enjoyed working with my hands,

[33:54] and even though I was young, I could fix

[33:56] things, make things, and enjoyed drawing

[33:58] and mechanics." End quote. Francis spent

[34:01] a year working with Samuel Yelen in his

[34:03] Philadelphia blacksmith shop before

[34:06] traveling to Germany to work with Julius

[34:09] Shramm in Berlin. Both eminent

[34:12] decorative blacksmiths influence

[34:15] Francis's professional life. In 1926, at

[34:19] age 18, his father gave him $35 and a

[34:23] one-way train ticket to California to

[34:26] find his fortune. Visiting a friend in

[34:28] Carmel, he knew he'd arrived in a

[34:30] special place. Looking for a job, he was

[34:33] advised to see Carmel's master builder,

[34:36] MJ Murphy. Hired, he soon oversaw work

[34:39] in Murphy's iron shop for the next seven

[34:41] years. His decorative iron work can be

[34:44] found throughout Carmel. While he

[34:46] undertook a variety of backs blacksmith

[34:49] jobs, he never shot a horse.

[34:52] Following the end of World War II,

[34:55] quote, "Caramel began to suffer from

[34:57] what I called growing pains. Carmemell,

[34:59] one of those incredibly beautiful

[35:01] places, was about to be invaded by the

[35:04] outside world." End quote. He and many

[35:07] other residents were becoming worried

[35:09] about the future of the community. Thus,

[35:11] Francis became involved in politics.

[35:15] Quote, "Blacksmiths by their very nature

[35:17] are stubborn, independent, fearless,

[35:20] thick-skinned, bullheaded, determined,

[35:23] and they don't like to be crowded, so

[35:25] they make perfect politicians." End

[35:28] quote. Francis served on the city

[35:30] council for 11 years, helping to develop

[35:33] the first master plan. involved in

[35:36] conservation activities. He was

[35:38] president of the league preserving Point

[35:40] Lobos for a state park as well as

[35:43] preserving the Carmel River mouth beach.

[35:46] Quote, I just couldn't stand by and see

[35:49] development of these beautiful areas to

[35:52] face the beauty of nature. They should

[35:54] be available to be enjoyed by all, not

[35:57] just by those who could afford to buy

[35:59] them." End quote.

[36:01] Following Francis's love for skiing and

[36:04] the beauty of unspoiled aspen, Francis

[36:07] loaded all his blacksmith equipment and

[36:09] moved. Thus ended Francis Whitaker's

[36:13] 37 years

[36:15] in his forge in the forest, gone, but

[36:18] now forgotten.

[36:20] One of the things I I question

[36:24] is if Francis took all of his equipment

[36:27] to Aspen,

[36:29] what is left behind, was it really

[36:31] Francis's? And um in in this book from

[36:36] which I quoted, this is a book that

[36:38] Francis wrote

[36:40] and it's really wonderful reading. It's

[36:43] very easy reading. Um he he said that he

[36:47] hired a man with a truck to take

[36:49] everything in his blacksmith shop and

[36:51] then he loaded up his own truck and

[36:52] left. So I I really question whether

[36:56] those things are indeed Francis's, but I

[36:58] don't know. So that ends my my little

[37:02] story. But from Julie went who was in

[37:05] Paris and she sent me a text and said,

[37:08] "Cindy, if you're going to the meeting,

[37:09] would you mind reading some of my

[37:11] comments in the record?" And I'm sure

[37:13] you've all read them. So, I just picked

[37:14] out a few. The Forge in the Forest

[37:17] blacksmith shop began 100 years ago in

[37:19] Carmel by the Sea, but the city is in

[37:22] danger of losing this history. My

[37:25] objective is to bring awareness to the

[37:26] Carmel community and future generations

[37:29] of residents and visitors of Francis

[37:32] Whitaker's Forge in the Forest and their

[37:34] contributions to Carmel's early

[37:36] beginnings.

[37:38] The forge building itself may not be

[37:40] historic because of alterations,

[37:43] but there should be an alternate way to

[37:45] recognize this one-of-a-kind historic

[37:47] contribution to Carmel. Francis Whitaker

[37:51] is eligible for the California Register

[37:53] under criterion 2 for person.

[37:57] The original forge building has lost

[37:59] integrity and cannot be dee deemed

[38:01] historic. The city should now be

[38:04] considering other means of commemorating

[38:06] the contribution and historic

[38:08] significance of Francis Whitaker's forge

[38:10] in the forest. A commemorative plaque is

[38:14] an option with the permission of the new

[38:16] restaurant operators of the corner

[38:18] market and Mr. Pastor who is the owner

[38:21] of the property. A commemorative plaque

[38:23] could be displayed on the site. the HRB,

[38:27] the city, the owners of the corner

[38:29] market, and interested Carmel residents

[38:32] could develop what the plaque might look

[38:34] like, as well as the language on the

[38:36] plaque and possibly a photo of Francis

[38:39] at work.

[38:41] And this is my last little thing. Now is

[38:43] the time to honor Francis Whitaker, for

[38:46] without him, the forge would not have

[38:48] become significant. Thank you.

[38:52] » Thank you very much.

[38:53] » You're very welcome.

[38:59] Seeing no one else in the room. Shelby,

[39:00] do we have anyone online?

[39:02] » We do. Yes. Um Ian Martin.

[39:04] [clears throat]

[39:06] » Good evening everybody. Um I am Ian

[39:10] Martin. I'm a former planning

[39:11] commissioner and a resident and u and a

[39:14] student of Carmel by the seas history.

[39:16] Uh, I want to give Neil Cruz a great

[39:18] deal of credit for the work that he did

[39:21] to maintain the historical feel of the

[39:25] Forge in the Forest after it became a

[39:27] restaurant. You know, when you're

[39:29] sitting there having a drink or a meal,

[39:32] you had a sense that you were in a place

[39:34] that had a had a a deep history to it.

[39:37] And I think there's some good news here

[39:39] in that I don't see

[39:43] why it's too late, why you could not

[39:45] return to something in line with what

[39:48] Neil originally did. In fact, Neil's

[39:50] right there in the room. Neil could

[39:52] participate in the restoration uh to

[39:55] bring it back to give the place

[39:59] uh that to return to that place a sense

[40:02] of the deep history that that property

[40:05] embodies. And you [clears throat] know,

[40:07] and I can't think of any reason why they

[40:09] couldn't also call it the forge in the

[40:11] forest if um you know, everything's a

[40:14] negotiation. I mean, I you know, why not

[40:16] try and acquire the name back and call

[40:18] it the Forge in the Forest again? So,

[40:21] you could retain that sense of history

[40:25] um as as the place, you know, as as the

[40:28] place once was under Neil's creativity

[40:31] and sensitivity to our village's

[40:33] history. So hopefully that could

[40:36] actually happen. Um, beyond just having

[40:38] a plaque, which you know, a lot of

[40:40] people don't read plaques, right? But

[40:42] when you went to the original Forge of

[40:43] the Forest restaurant, you had a sense

[40:45] you were sitting there at a historical

[40:47] place, you understood that there was a

[40:48] backstory there that you were aware of

[40:51] because they had the forge there in the

[40:54] room. Um, and then also the ambiance of

[40:57] the place, the rusticity of the place,

[40:59] all lent a strong reinforcement of the

[41:03] sense of of that history. So, it's not

[41:06] too late. All those things could come to

[41:09] pass and Neil could even take the reigns

[41:11] and and make it a reality as he once

[41:13] did. Um, that would be amazing and a and

[41:16] a a demonstration of the love for the

[41:19] village. Um,

[41:21] this also speaks to, you know, I

[41:23] appreciate that all the all the the

[41:26] mechanical factors of notification in

[41:29] the municipal code were met, I suppose,

[41:32] but when you're dealing with something

[41:34] like this, it really should have come

[41:36] before the historic resources board um

[41:39] as a matter of default, right? when

[41:42] you're dealing with something that is so

[41:44] important um you know as as Francis

[41:48] Whitaker and his legacy in the village I

[41:50] mean here's a guy who had an obituary in

[41:52] the New York Times when he died so you

[41:56] know we should be defaulting to the

[41:58] historic resources board to make sure

[42:00] that everybody is aware of what's

[42:02] happening when we are dealing with

[42:04] historic properties or or or history or

[42:07] or properties that may not technically

[42:10] meet the letter of the offer histo but

[42:13] there should be [gasps]

[42:15] uh a plain in view discussion in front

[42:17] of the public about how the city's

[42:19] arriving at these discussions um just

[42:21] beyond the perform steps. So anyway in

[42:25] closing um thank you all for giving this

[42:28] thing a a proper uh airing and again

[42:32] it's not too late. Thank you. Thank you

[42:38] Charles.

[43:02] I'm mute.

[43:05] unmute.

[43:11] » Charles, if you're muted, uh we cannot

[43:13] hear you. Please unmute.

[43:17] » Good afternoon. Um

[43:20] uh this is uh Chuck Nagarian. I'm a

[43:22] resident of of Carmel. I really uh

[43:26] appreciate the hearing today.

[43:29] Um, I I'm I'm I guess my my

[43:34] guess my my main concern here is I'm

[43:36] baffled

[43:38] by the over- the-counter process that

[43:41] occurred here. I think that is the

[43:43] genesis of the problems we have here

[43:46] today. And um I I was really encouraged

[43:50] by what uh what Neil presented and uh

[43:55] and also what Ian Martin's um

[43:58] recommendations for for restoration. I

[44:01] think that's that's the key here. Um

[44:05] this is this is too important of a site.

[44:08] And um I'm not sure why the HRB was left

[44:12] out of this, but I I'm I'm noting that

[44:15] the HRB seems to be left out of a lot of

[44:18] key things,

[44:20] including other other permitting

[44:21] processes, and I'm I'm encouraging you

[44:24] to be involved as much as you can and

[44:26] express

[44:28] express your your expertise.

[44:31] Um, unfortunately, I don't think the

[44:32] city uh or or concerned residents know

[44:37] all the facts. I know I know I don't,

[44:39] but I know a lot of questions have been

[44:41] raised that are a little disconcerting.

[44:44] Uh, and I urge you, the city, uh, to to

[44:48] to sink answers to them. Um, I think

[44:52] it's really important understand

[44:53] everything that's been going on. Um, and

[44:57] and I think the over-the-c counter

[44:59] process itself,

[45:01] uh, you know, facilitated facilitated

[45:03] where we are today, uh, which isn't a

[45:06] very good place. I think it's somewhat

[45:07] embarrassing, frankly. And, um, I'm

[45:11] sorry that I'm sorry that it happened.

[45:13] Um, I I think anybody with half a brain

[45:16] knows and feels the the historicity of

[45:20] the of the forge in the forest. and um

[45:24] and and I hope you take uh uh Ian's

[45:28] recommendation at heart in terms of

[45:30] moving in a restoration

[45:32] manner. I don't think anything but the

[45:36] name forging the forest will work at

[45:39] that property. I think everything else

[45:41] is nonsense. Anyway, thank you for your

[45:45] time and thank you for for your interest

[45:47] in looking into this. [clears throat]

[45:50] » Thank you very much. Anyone

[45:56] else?

[45:57] » That's everyone.

[45:58] » Okay. Any other comments from the

[46:01] public? [clears throat] Hearing? None.

[46:02] We'll close it back up and um ask the

[46:07] board if they have any comments or

[46:08] issues that they'd like to discuss. I

[46:10] have a question.

[46:11] » Yes, ma'am.

[46:12] » My question is for Neil. You had

[46:14] indicated that at some point you and the

[46:17] owner had gone shopping for items that

[46:19] were welded to the forge. So those

[46:21] things were not Francis Whitickers. They

[46:24] were things that you purchased.

[46:25] » You mean the the implements?

[46:27] » Can you come to the Yes. microphone,

[46:28] please?

[46:29] » Sorry.

[46:32] » Yes. All All there was really

[46:34] [clears throat] was the the hearth which

[46:37] the anvil sat on and then the anvil

[46:40] itself and the railing around it.

[46:43] » Okay. Thank you.

[46:44] » And so uh Dan wanted to it was partly

[46:49] for safety reasons. He wanted there to

[46:51] be a fire in that, but didn't want kids

[46:53] or something. So, he thought he would

[46:55] get all these rusty old metal elements.

[46:59] And then he brought in our favorite

[47:01] welder and we just spent the day holding

[47:04] them and welding them in place.

[47:05] » Made making it look like it was still in

[47:07] use.

[47:08] » Yeah.

[47:08] » But it wasn't Francis Luc.

[47:10] » No, most of that stuff we got at flea at

[47:12] flea markets at Sanon Batista.

[47:14] » Great. Thank you, Neil. Thank you very

[47:16] much.

[47:17] » Thank you,

[47:17] » Neil. Do you mind if I ask a question as

[47:19] well? Do you know about the forge being

[47:21] relocated within the room?

[47:24] » Uh, excuse me. Could you say it one more

[47:25] time, Kath?

[47:26] » Do you know about the forge's relocation

[47:28] within the room

[47:30] from

[47:31] » One more time? I'm sorry because my

[47:33] [laughter] hearing is not good.

[47:34] » Uh, do you have knowledge of the forge

[47:37] being relocated from one corner of the

[47:39] room to another, like the back of the

[47:41] building to the front?

[47:43] » Uh, no. the the the hearth and the anvil

[47:46] was always in that location throughout

[47:48] the our experience with the project to

[47:50] my knowledge. It was always right in

[47:53] that. I I believe I remember as a young

[47:56] child my father would always take me to

[47:59] watch Francis Whitaker do his metal work

[48:02] and uh my memory of that is that the uh

[48:05] hearth and the anvil were in the place

[48:08] where it is now or where it just

[48:10] recently was all that time there was an

[48:15] earlier forge in the forest. Okay. Which

[48:17] is down near uh

[48:21] uh you know the supermarket and sand um

[48:25] and uh

[48:29] just a second here. So uh right next to

[48:32] Bruno's market you have the Sandpiper

[48:35] and you used to be able to look up and

[48:37] see the ceiling of the Sandpiper and it

[48:40] was dark wood and all this old wood and

[48:42] old framing. That was this the the

[48:45] ceiling of the first forge in the

[48:47] forest. And I was informed by a

[48:49] historian one day. He sat down with Dan

[48:51] and I and he said, "Yeah." He said, "Uh,

[48:54] so there's the story from Francis that

[48:56] he was out there and John Steinbeck was

[48:59] sitting down getting drunk and Lincoln

[49:01] Stefins comes by and he says, "Is that

[49:03] John?" He says, "Yeah." So he says, "I

[49:06] got a book he needs to write." Lincoln

[49:08] Stephins went over there and sat with

[49:10] Steinbeck for about an hour. That's how

[49:13] you got the grapes of wrath in that

[49:16] conversation.

[49:22] » Thanks very much for that.

[49:23] » Is there anything else?

[49:26] » Any other comments from the board or any

[49:28] thoughts?

[49:30] » Well, this is a this is a tough one

[49:32] really. Um, I also have the feeling like

[49:34] we're dealing with something similar to

[49:37] the horses out of the barn, which makes

[49:40] it very difficult uh to know what the

[49:44] right the right approach should be.

[49:48] Um, I'm reminded of a of a situation uh

[49:52] in my former city, Capola,

[49:56] where um a small cabin that had been

[49:59] part of the original

[50:02] um development by the founder of Capola,

[50:05] a small cabin was found uh at some

[50:09] distance from city hall and um the

[50:13] owners wanted to remove it from the

[50:15] property and do something house. And so

[50:18] that cabin was brought uh down to the

[50:23] city so that when people walk from the

[50:26] parking lot behind city hall, you're

[50:29] forced to go right in front of the

[50:31] cabin. And inside it was opened uh with

[50:36] larger windows. You can't go inside, but

[50:40] a a historic display was set up to

[50:44] resemble the interior of a small

[50:48] one room house. And in back um they had

[50:52] a washroom place where you changed your

[50:54] clothes or used the bathroom. It was

[50:56] just a outouse but a long narrow one. So

[51:00] people were not only forced to, but they

[51:03] loved looking in the windows and seeing

[51:06] what life was like in the 1920s.

[51:10] And uh you know, we miss that here in

[51:12] Carmel. We're [clears throat] so busy uh

[51:14] looking at the architectural integrity

[51:17] and the style, but the history. Uh I I

[51:22] up the street from the Whitaker Forge

[51:25] uh just a block half a block away is um

[51:29] James Weaver Kitchens plumbing shop and

[51:33] it's part now of a real estate office.

[51:37] But if you just walk past it and look

[51:40] inside, you can see the original um form

[51:44] of the of the u plumbing business. And

[51:49] all of these men, the Whitakers, the uh

[51:52] K kitchens, the the men that Catelyn who

[51:55] was mentioned earlier, they all have a

[51:58] place in the story. And I took special

[52:00] note of what I I think I don't know

[52:04] which one of you said that Whitaker I

[52:06] think maybe you did. Uh

[52:09] I it Whitaker was on the council for 11

[52:11] years. So that counts for a lot. I mean,

[52:14] he put something of himself into that

[52:17] position. So all of this makes me think

[52:20] we you know we should have thought of

[52:22] this. I I have the date of a almost a

[52:25] year ago when the um planning director

[52:30] um asked you know uh the council not

[52:33] council the HRB to look at this issue

[52:37] and u

[52:40] it kind of passed through based on the

[52:43] fact that its integrity had been

[52:45] changed. But what about the site? You

[52:48] know, uh that's one of the parts of the

[52:50] National Register and the California

[52:52] Register and our own inventory that we

[52:55] tend to forget that a site is just as

[52:58] significant. It may not have the all the

[53:01] uh accutra months or however you say it

[53:04] of the original, but something important

[53:07] happened there. And these places like

[53:10] the forge are very few and far between.

[53:13] And if we only look at the architecture

[53:15] and say, well, you know, it's been all

[53:17] changed. That that to me I think we're

[53:21] leaving something out. So, I I think we

[53:24] need to do something to show off uh a

[53:27] man with Whitaker's talents and that we

[53:29] don't uh we don't we're sending uh the

[53:33] wrong signal if we don't do something uh

[53:36] to honor his memory and uh what he

[53:39] contributed to all the ornamental

[53:42] railings and uh iron work that we see

[53:45] throughout the city. So, I'm glad that a

[53:48] plaque is being suggested. I was very

[53:50] intrigued by Carol's comment about

[53:53] opening those doors on the street

[53:56] because I could see the little cabin in

[53:58] Capola right there as you walked by. You

[54:02] could have the forge in the tools and a

[54:05] photograph of Mr. Whitaker and I think

[54:08] it would draw people to the corner

[54:10] market or it wouldn't be an uh anything

[54:14] wrong with that. So that that's that's

[54:16] what my where my thinking is going right

[54:18] now. Any

[54:22] thoughts?

[54:25] » Yeah, I

[54:27] probably it's a cautionary tale a little

[54:29] bit. And it's not just this last um

[54:34] proposal and building permit that went

[54:36] through, but there was a lot of changes

[54:37] over time that made it lose its

[54:39] integrity. I do remember being in town

[54:42] um when I first came to Carmela and

[54:45] enjoying the general stores, the

[54:47] restaurant, and the beautiful little

[54:50] courtyard and the the the old bar and

[54:52] the in in the with the forge and the

[54:55] anvil all in that that space which was

[54:59] and having that indooroutdoor connection

[55:01] which was really I thought a beautiful

[55:03] part of that um

[55:05] scheme and restaurant. It made it really

[55:07] special. Um,

[55:09] and I think there were changes even

[55:11] subsequent to that. Like I think you

[55:12] know one of the things people may not

[55:14] understand that is that the historic

[55:16] resources board doesn't really have

[55:18] jurisdiction about the inside of

[55:20] buildings and I know the bar was removed

[55:22] for example that was quite an impressive

[55:25] piece of it. Um, you know, at this

[55:28] point, as as you mentioned, that the the

[55:31] horses have left the barn and and

[55:34] these folks have a have a building

[55:36] permit and we're lucky. You know,

[55:39] [snorts] Mr. Cogley is a wonderful chef

[55:42] and I'm sure it's going to be an amazing

[55:44] restaurant, which we'll all enjoy. Um

[55:47] but there is this certain lack of

[55:49] [clears throat] um consideration to the

[55:51] history of the place that

[55:54] probably should have been caught before.

[55:56] Um and I agreed more things should come

[55:58] to the HRV especially if there's if

[56:00] there's you know I think objectively you

[56:03] can you know they're sensitive and you

[56:05] know the town's sensitive about it. Um,

[56:10] I think the at this point a plaque or

[56:13] Carol's idea of a of having an exhibit

[56:16] behind those doors sounds really lovely.

[56:18] Um, I think having some marker of what

[56:21] it what it was in France is a is a is a

[56:24] great idea. Um, [clears throat]

[56:27] but in general, I think that is a piece

[56:29] of Carmel. I kind of understand the the

[56:32] how people feel so strongly about it is

[56:34] a piece of caramel that's kind of lost

[56:36] and I think it was lost as a

[56:41] you know sequentially it wasn't just one

[56:44] thing.

[56:46] » Yeah.

[56:47] So I think um you know we've there's a

[56:51] lot we can take away from this. Um I I

[56:53] would hesitate to say that the historic

[56:56] resources board was not made aware of

[56:57] this because through due process um the

[57:01] staff assessed the property and then um

[57:05] open it up for public comment and open

[57:07] up for HRB comment as they're supposed

[57:09] to um during that 10day period. And

[57:11] unfortunately or fortunately um you know

[57:14] there weren't significant issues raised

[57:16] at that point. I understand it's a very

[57:18] emotional um space for a lot of people,

[57:20] but I also understand that um Espironza,

[57:24] you know, entered into this project with

[57:25] a set of guidelines and rules that they

[57:27] felt were appropriate. And I think um

[57:29] you know, that's been pointed out a

[57:30] couple times. Um and so they shouldn't

[57:32] be penalized for that either. So I think

[57:35] in the future um I think I would just

[57:39] urge the public that if you see

[57:40] something like this happening that you

[57:43] really pay attention to the notification

[57:45] by the city about um you know your cons

[57:49] and and voice your concerns about it. I

[57:51] also agree that I think there's certain

[57:52] things that don't come to the HRB as a

[57:54] formal agenda item that probably should

[57:56] and so you know we as a group can talk

[57:59] about that and and maybe provide some

[58:02] additional guidance to the staff on what

[58:04] that looks like. Um and I think you know

[58:06] the the good news is the organizations

[58:08] agreed to a plaque which is important

[58:10] and certainly I I think the HRB and

[58:13] other members of the uh community are

[58:16] happy to help with writing that plaque.

[58:18] Um, but I think, you know, we're at the

[58:21] point where um this process is moving

[58:24] and it it's got to keep moving. And I I

[58:26] appreciate the staff um walking us

[58:28] through the timeline once again. I think

[58:30] that was very thorough and I do

[58:31] certainly do appreciate um the members

[58:33] of the public who spoke and um very

[58:35] eloquently talked about the issues that

[58:37] they felt were concerning. So, with

[58:40] that, I'd ask if there's any Yes, ma'am.

[58:43] » I don't know how many people have had

[58:45] experience ordering plaques, but I have.

[58:47] And Possibly

[58:49] not all of you know that you can

[58:51] actually have a photograph as part of

[58:53] the plaque. So it wouldn't have be a

[58:55] plaque for him with a just a picture of

[58:57] him next to it. It could be all be

[58:59] incorporated in that.

[59:02] » Yeah, I think there's some good options.

[59:04] Any other comments from the board?

[59:07] Okay, hearing none, we will move on to

[59:09] the next consent item

[59:15] public hearing. Yeah, sorry. To the

[59:16] public hearing um which is DR 25228 the

[59:19] Cypress in consideration of a

[59:22] determination of consistency with the

[59:24] secretary of the interior standards for

[59:26] a track one design review for exterior

[59:28] alterations and site improvements at the

[59:30] historic LA Riviera Hotel located in the

[59:33] northeast section northeast corner of

[59:35] Lincoln Street and 7th Avenue.

[59:45] Thank you.

[59:52] » Thank you, [snorts] chair. Uh, the

[59:54] Cypress in originally called um La La

[59:58] Libera was designed by Blaine and Olsen

[1:00:00] and was constructed in 1929 at the

[1:00:03] northeast corner of Lincoln and 7th.

[1:00:06] to anymore.

[1:00:08] » Blaine and Olsen had studied

[1:00:10] Mediterranean architecture in Spain and

[1:00:12] incorporated a clay tile roof, a

[1:00:15] three-story Moorish tower with a zigurat

[1:00:17] top and a courtyard into their hotel

[1:00:19] design.

[1:00:24] In 1949, the original 1929 building was

[1:00:27] expanded with an addition by significant

[1:00:29] architect Gardner Daly. The addition is

[1:00:32] located at the southwest corner of the

[1:00:33] property and is included in the period

[1:00:36] of significance which is 1929 through

[1:00:38] 1949.

[1:00:40] The property has been called the Cypress

[1:00:42] in since circa 1980.

[1:00:46] In 2002 2003 the hotel was again

[1:00:49] expanded to the north on a separate lot.

[1:00:52] The current project is limited to the

[1:00:54] original property not the north annex

[1:00:56] which you see circled in red there.

[1:01:01] Long recognized as a historic property,

[1:01:03] the Cypress Inn is listed on the city's

[1:01:06] uh historic inventory and register and

[1:01:09] has an active Mills Act contract.

[1:01:13] The building has numerous identified

[1:01:15] character-defining features, including

[1:01:17] the mission tile roof, the 7th Avenue

[1:01:20] courtyard with the hexagonal tiles and

[1:01:22] arcade, and steel casement windows, all

[1:01:24] of which are included in the current

[1:01:26] project scope of work slated for either

[1:01:29] repair or replacement.

[1:01:32] So, the current project proposes roof

[1:01:34] repairs, window replacements, the

[1:01:37] installation of a courtyard ADA ramp,

[1:01:39] courtyard tile replacements, and new

[1:01:41] courtyard stair tiles.

[1:01:45] The applicant proposes to replace 70

[1:01:48] non-original steel windows, which

[1:01:50] according to the window survey are

[1:01:52] either rusted, difficult, or unsafe to

[1:01:54] operate, and they permit water

[1:01:55] intrusion. The proposed new windows

[1:01:58] which will be installed within existing

[1:02:00] openings with no change to opening

[1:02:01] dimensions will be divided light

[1:02:04] casement steel windows by Jensen

[1:02:06] Janisole.

[1:02:10] So the applicant proposes to remove the

[1:02:12] existing mission tile roof and to wash,

[1:02:15] repair and store the tiles during the

[1:02:17] period of time in which any areas of dry

[1:02:19] rot will be repaired and a new

[1:02:21] waterproof underllayment installed. The

[1:02:23] old tiles will then be reinstalled. If

[1:02:26] any broken tiles need to be replaced on

[1:02:28] a street facing elevation, old tiles

[1:02:30] will be salvaged from a less visible

[1:02:32] area of the roof and new Redland clay

[1:02:35] tile will be used to fill in the salvage

[1:02:37] tile spots.

[1:02:40] The south courtyard features a

[1:02:42] distinctive arcade with mission tiles

[1:02:44] laid directly on tree branches. A

[1:02:47] structural engineer completed an

[1:02:49] evaluation and did not recommend a

[1:02:50] waterproof underllayment for this

[1:02:52] feature due to aesthetic impacts. The

[1:02:55] structural engineer concluded that the

[1:02:56] tree limbs are sound and recommends

[1:02:58] reinspection every six years.

[1:03:03] For the courtyard, the existing

[1:03:05] hexagonal tiles, as described by the

[1:03:07] applicant, are deteriorated beyond

[1:03:08] repair, and they're mixed with areas of

[1:03:10] non-original square tiles, resulting in

[1:03:13] an inconsistent appearance throughout

[1:03:14] the courtyard. The applicant proposes to

[1:03:17] replace all existing tiles with new

[1:03:19] hexagonal tiles to match the original

[1:03:21] condition.

[1:03:24] The project plans also reflect a new ADA

[1:03:27] ramp to provide access from 7th Street,

[1:03:29] 7th Avenue, excuse me. The proposed ramp

[1:03:32] will feature a square tile with a center

[1:03:34] medallion pattern. A new planter will be

[1:03:37] installed directly east of the ramp,

[1:03:39] topped with a metal handrail.

[1:03:43] Lastly, the project includes adding

[1:03:45] satio tile to the concrete stairs that

[1:03:48] lead from the east side of the courtyard

[1:03:49] up to the second story of the east wing.

[1:03:54] The city contracted with a professional

[1:03:57] uh historian to evaluate the project for

[1:03:59] consistency with the st the secretary of

[1:04:01] the interior standards for

[1:04:02] rehabilitation.

[1:04:04] Miss Clovis found the project as

[1:04:06] proposed to be consistent with the

[1:04:08] relevant standards 1 2 4 5 6 and 9 which

[1:04:12] I'll review individually.

[1:04:15] Uh the board also has a little visual

[1:04:18] handout on the standards which is

[1:04:20] available at the front of the room and

[1:04:21] will be posted online. It's simply a

[1:04:23] little visual cheat sheet of our 10

[1:04:25] standards. We'll be going through the

[1:04:27] relevant ones here.

[1:04:30] So the project is consistent with

[1:04:31] standard one because the historic use as

[1:04:34] a hotel is not changing and standard one

[1:04:37] is all about use.

[1:04:41] The project is consistent with standard

[1:04:42] two um which is all about preserving

[1:04:45] historic character because one the

[1:04:48] existing roof [clears throat] tiles will

[1:04:49] be cleaned and reinstalled rather than

[1:04:51] replaced. two, the hodge podge of

[1:04:53] courtyard tiles in the non-original um

[1:04:56] lighter grout color no longer reflect

[1:04:58] the original 1929 tile design and may

[1:05:02] therefore be restored. And then three,

[1:05:05] the steel casement windows are

[1:05:06] deteriorated beyond repair and the

[1:05:08] replacement windows will be

[1:05:10] undistinguishable from the existing.

[1:05:14] Uh moving to standard five um which

[1:05:17] talks about how distinct features uh

[1:05:19] should be kept. the project is

[1:05:21] consistent um excuse me number four

[1:05:24] which speaks to how previous changes can

[1:05:27] become significant in their own right.

[1:05:29] So in this case the hotel's 1949 edition

[1:05:33] has acquired historic significance uh

[1:05:35] was designed by gardener daily and

[1:05:38] recorded in the DPR form as significant.

[1:05:41] So the roof work occurring at that

[1:05:43] portion of the building follows the

[1:05:44] preservation standards um and is

[1:05:47] appropriate. Standard five um retaining

[1:05:51] distinct features um character-defining

[1:05:54] roof tiles will be preserved. The

[1:05:56] existing windows will be replaced in

[1:05:58] kind and the original hexagonal

[1:06:01] courtyard tiles will be replicated um

[1:06:03] with the same dimensions. So the

[1:06:05] courtyard will be brought back to its

[1:06:07] historic appearance. Uh lastly, while

[1:06:10] the removal of decorative tiles at the

[1:06:13] base of one of the arcade support

[1:06:16] columns will need to be removed to

[1:06:18] accommodate the ADA ramp, those tiles

[1:06:20] will be saved and used as needed in the

[1:06:22] future for repairs elsewhere, such as

[1:06:24] these Lincoln Street entry steps.

[1:06:28] Uh standard six speaks to the importance

[1:06:31] of repairing before moving to a

[1:06:34] replacement plan.

[1:06:36] » [clears throat]

[1:06:36] » The project is consistent with this

[1:06:37] standard because uh as previously

[1:06:39] described, the roof work will follow the

[1:06:42] guidance included in preservation brief

[1:06:44] 30, which speaks to how to deal with

[1:06:47] clay tile roofs and the windows will be

[1:06:50] replaced in kind and the new courtyard

[1:06:52] tile will be matching the old.

[1:06:56] Uh standard nine, um the the new ADA

[1:07:00] ramp is a code compliant accessibility

[1:07:03] feature. The standards recommend

[1:07:05] minimizing the impact of accessibility

[1:07:07] ramps by installing them on secondary

[1:07:10] elevations or by screening them with

[1:07:12] planting. And in this case, the proposed

[1:07:14] ramp is both located on a secondary

[1:07:16] elevation and is proposed to be screened

[1:07:19] from the courtyard by a white concrete

[1:07:21] landscaped planter. The new ramp will

[1:07:24] feature square tiles with a central

[1:07:26] medallion which is compatible yet

[1:07:28] differentiated from the historic

[1:07:30] hexagonal tile pattern. Um likewise the

[1:07:33] square satio tiles proposed for the east

[1:07:36] stairs are compatible yet

[1:07:38] differentiated.

[1:07:42] So, the Cypress Inn is located within

[1:07:44] the downtown conservation district,

[1:07:46] which has the highest concentration of

[1:07:48] historic buildings in the city. And the

[1:07:51] municipal code requires that the

[1:07:53] historic resources board makes certain

[1:07:55] findings for all projects um on historic

[1:07:58] sites in the conservation district

[1:08:00] district, which this is. Uh several of

[1:08:03] the findings overlap with those

[1:08:04] standards that we just reviewed. You can

[1:08:06] see in green kind of how the standards

[1:08:09] and these conservation district findings

[1:08:12] overlap. And then additionally, the

[1:08:14] board must find that the proposed

[1:08:16] project is consistent with the

[1:08:18] established design context of the

[1:08:20] conservation district and will not

[1:08:22] adversely affect any historic resource

[1:08:24] on the project site or on adjacent

[1:08:26] sites.

[1:08:29] the historic uh Cocker building directly

[1:08:32] east of the Cypress Inn, built in 1927

[1:08:35] and designed by Blaine Olsen, the same

[1:08:37] architectural team that designed the

[1:08:39] Cypress Inn, features many similar

[1:08:41] features such as the decorative tile

[1:08:43] work, steel windows, and clay roof

[1:08:45] tiles.

[1:08:47] Historic buildings on uh Dolores that

[1:08:49] back up to the Cypress in are also 1920s

[1:08:53] Spanish style buildings. The proposed

[1:08:56] project um as we've reviewed complies

[1:08:59] with the standards but it also complies

[1:09:00] with the relevant commercial design

[1:09:02] guidelines including guideline 8.1 which

[1:09:06] says basic elements of design integrity

[1:09:08] and consistency throughout each building

[1:09:10] should be preserved or restored.

[1:09:13] Guideline C which says windows design

[1:09:16] should be consistent with the original

[1:09:17] building concept or with its

[1:09:19] architecture. And lastly, guideline E,

[1:09:22] building materials should respect the

[1:09:24] traditions already established in the

[1:09:27] commercial district.

[1:09:31] Staff is recommending you adopt a

[1:09:33] resolution um finding the proposed

[1:09:35] project consistent with the established

[1:09:38] design context of the downtown

[1:09:39] conservation district and consistent

[1:09:41] with the standards for for

[1:09:43] rehabilitation.

[1:09:44] That concludes my presentation. I

[1:09:47] believe the architect is online for any

[1:09:49] [clears throat] questions.

[1:09:50] » Super. Thank you. Any questions for the

[1:09:52] staff before we um open it up?

[1:09:59] » I I do have one question about the

[1:10:01] courtyard tiles. Well, actually two

[1:10:02] questions. Is there currently an ADA

[1:10:04] entrance ramp entrance?

[1:10:07] » I will defer to the architect to

[1:10:09] describe how the current

[1:10:12] » Entrance is not ADA accessible.

[1:10:14] » Okay. And then um under standard nine,

[1:10:17] the courtyard tiles being replaced

[1:10:19] rather than

[1:10:21] salvaged and things like that. So we're

[1:10:24] wholesalingly replacing

[1:10:26] historic tiles with non-historic tiles

[1:10:29] that look the same.

[1:10:31] » That's right.

[1:10:33] » But we don't normally do that.

[1:10:35] We usually differentiate We usually

[1:10:37] differentiate between old and new.

[1:10:40] » If it Yes. If it is a new feature, a new

[1:10:43] feature should be differentiated so that

[1:10:46] it's not falsely

[1:10:48] um giving the sense that it's historic.

[1:10:52] Um the courtyard itself is is not a new

[1:10:55] feature because it's a historic feature.

[1:10:58] It's essentially being repaired

[1:11:03] » Or replaced in kind.

[1:11:05] » Yeah. Okay. Thanks for that. Any other

[1:11:08] questions for the staff before we go to

[1:11:10] the architect?

[1:11:12] Okay. No. Uh, no questions. So, we'll go

[1:11:16] forward to the hear from the architect,

[1:11:18] please.

[1:11:23] » Mr. Goodwin,

[1:11:24] » Can you guys hear me?

[1:11:26] » Yes, we can.

[1:11:27] » All right. Wonderful. Thank you uh

[1:11:29] everyone for allowing us to present this

[1:11:32] and Katherine, thank you so much for

[1:11:34] that. Um the accessibility uh for the

[1:11:37] property right now um

[1:11:41] currently the only accessible path of

[1:11:43] travel is through the courtyard and

[1:11:46] after review of it through um

[1:11:49] topographic survey the slopes do not

[1:11:52] meet the requirements. So there

[1:11:54] technically is no accessible path

[1:11:57] because the there's actually stairs from

[1:11:58] the other entry to the lobby. Um so

[1:12:02] currently even though the uh entry uh

[1:12:05] and the bathrooms and certain other

[1:12:07] features inside the building have an

[1:12:10] accessible nature the path to the inside

[1:12:14] is not currently accessible.

[1:12:19] » Okay. Thanks for that.

[1:12:22] » Any questions for the architect?

[1:12:27] Um, I had some questions about the the

[1:12:29] windows and

[1:12:32] the profiles that are being proposed. I

[1:12:35] know [clears throat] that that was part

[1:12:35] of the I can't actually access it from

[1:12:38] my tablet. Could we go over that again

[1:12:41] or or see the

[1:12:43] the steel windows that are being

[1:12:44] proposed?

[1:12:48] » Uh, yes. Do you have the um brochure uh

[1:12:54] Katherine that you can show?

[1:12:59] » Um

[1:13:01] they do not

[1:13:03] » The existing windows that are being um

[1:13:05] replaced have a similar division that we

[1:13:09] are proposing. The only difference is

[1:13:11] that the mullions in the frame of the

[1:13:14] new windows are thicker than the steel

[1:13:17] um that was originally built.

[1:13:20] uh the simulated steel or the steel uh

[1:13:22] dividers that are inside of the proposed

[1:13:25] replacements are very similar to the

[1:13:27] thickness. It's just the outside frame

[1:13:30] which has to be nailed in place um in

[1:13:33] the existing openings

[1:13:35] um is thicker. So that would be the only

[1:13:38] uh major difference. Even though it it

[1:13:40] simulates the idea of what the old

[1:13:42] windows were, it is not an exact u

[1:13:45] match.

[1:13:47] » Okay. I was I think it would be nice to

[1:13:51] have the the the muttons. I understand

[1:13:54] it's a different um manufacturer,

[1:13:57] different time, and you have the double

[1:13:58] uh insulated windows and things, but I

[1:14:00] think that you could simulate is is the

[1:14:03] mutton simulating the the tea bar putty

[1:14:06] look or is it square?

[1:14:09] » The muttons are Yeah. And that will be

[1:14:12] something that we can work with staff um

[1:14:14] to show examples once we get one

[1:14:17] ordered. But the muttons are

[1:14:21] » Okay. So that's that I think that's

[1:14:22] that'd be a nice important

[1:14:25] part of it to be replacing in kind. And

[1:14:28] then the other thing that was a little

[1:14:30] bit confusing in the in the packet, I

[1:14:32] was looking at a a detail that obviously

[1:14:34] there there's a lot of different

[1:14:36] conditions throughout the the building

[1:14:39] on on the different openings and I just

[1:14:41] wanted to make sure that the the

[1:14:44] locations of the window frames within

[1:14:48] the walls are maintained. So just

[1:14:50] confirming that

[1:14:53] » Distance from the base of the uh wall,

[1:14:56] you mean? Yes, basically the the

[1:14:59] position of the frame within the

[1:15:00] thickness of the wall, the depth.

[1:15:03] » Yeah, that would be maintained as well

[1:15:05] and we can work with a mockup just to

[1:15:07] make sure that that um is approved if

[1:15:09] needed. But that's the general idea.

[1:15:13] » Okay, those are my two

[1:15:16] questions. Thank you. Otherwise, I think

[1:15:17] everything looks good, man. Well, I

[1:15:19] guess we'll wait for the public hearing

[1:15:21] to close before

[1:15:22] » Anybody else's questions for the

[1:15:23] architect.

[1:15:25] Okay, hearing none, we will open the

[1:15:28] comments to the public. If you have a

[1:15:31] comment, please come forward to the

[1:15:33] podium.

[1:15:37] Nobody in the room, anybody online,

[1:15:39] Shelby?

[1:15:40] » No, sir.

[1:15:40] » Okay, so we'll close that back up. Um,

[1:15:44] any further discussion by staff or are

[1:15:45] we ready to

[1:15:47] uh

[1:15:49] make a recommendation?

[1:15:51] » You want to say anything more, Eric? I

[1:15:54] was just make the comments. I think all

[1:15:55] the replacing the roofing and kind like

[1:15:57] that and then use the redlinin tiles for

[1:15:59] the one so they can replace or can't uh

[1:16:02] they run out of the existing tiles to

[1:16:04] reclaim. That's a good choice. I think

[1:16:07] that I'm fine with the replacement and

[1:16:09] kind of the courtyard. I think that is

[1:16:11] obviously an important thing because you

[1:16:13] can see how uneven it is as you walking

[1:16:15] through that. I know

[1:16:16] » Um people sensitive to accessibility

[1:16:18] would probably have a problem with the

[1:16:20] existing conditions. So improving that

[1:16:23] with the nice tile that they found

[1:16:24] sounds great. Um dealing with the cross

[1:16:27] slopes of the the ramp that comes in off

[1:16:30] um 7th Avenue makes a lot of sense as

[1:16:34] well. So everything else looks great.

[1:16:36] And then again, I would just stipulate

[1:16:38] that the the window frames have the T-

[1:16:41] bar putty mutton look and the uh the the

[1:16:46] location of the frames within the wall

[1:16:48] thickness is maintained per existing

[1:16:51] condition.

[1:16:54] » Okay.

[1:16:54] » I will add those two as conditions of

[1:16:56] approval.

[1:16:57] » Perfect.

[1:16:59] » All right. Would someone like to make a

[1:17:00] recommendation?

[1:17:01] » Well, I'd like to say a couple things.

[1:17:02] Sorry. There's a I thought the phase 2

[1:17:05] report that Miss Clovis did was

[1:17:07] excellent. Uh I had the sense that she

[1:17:11] uh really understood the project and

[1:17:13] made the important salient points. And

[1:17:16] if you'll just indulge me for a minute,

[1:17:19] uh when uh we were uh I think in your

[1:17:22] report, Katherine, you said that in 2002

[1:17:25] 2003, the property was enlarged to the

[1:17:29] north to add new rooms on the on that

[1:17:33] northern side. And I had to remember

[1:17:36] that I think I served on the HRB back in

[1:17:40] 2002, which makes it very long time ago

[1:17:45] because uh that's that's an example of

[1:17:49] we had to discuss the removal of a

[1:17:52] studio that was the um uh office of uh

[1:17:57] one of the prominent women painters in

[1:18:01] town who had started way back when it

[1:18:04] was the arts and crafts club here, Mary

[1:18:06] Denil Morgan, and that her studio was

[1:18:09] kind of a mess really. It didn't look

[1:18:11] really beautiful, but it was historic.

[1:18:13] And I remember we struggled with that

[1:18:15] idea at the time that here's another

[1:18:18] historic site that is changing and

[1:18:22] moving into a new addition to this

[1:18:24] hotel. But it 20 years later, I mean, it

[1:18:28] looks beautiful. So there you go. and

[1:18:31] the gardener dy's edition. All all of

[1:18:34] this is adding to the historic record

[1:18:37] which I think is very significant. So I

[1:18:40] enjoyed reading the structural engineers

[1:18:43] report. It was very folksy more not as

[1:18:46] uh you know serious as some some write

[1:18:49] but I I thought it was great and I I I

[1:18:53] agree with Eric's uh additions. I

[1:18:55] thought those are appropriate.

[1:19:03] Okay.

[1:19:06] Uh, would someone like to make a

[1:19:09] recommendation?

[1:19:13] We have the two caveats already about

[1:19:14] the windows that Eric mentioned.

[1:19:18] » [clears throat]

[1:19:20] » Um, I'll I'll make a motion that the

[1:19:22] resolution uh for this project, the

[1:19:25] Cypress in U found consistent with the

[1:19:29] uh established design context of the

[1:19:31] downtown conservation district and

[1:19:34] consistent with the Secretary of the

[1:19:36] Interior standards for the treatment of

[1:19:38] historic properties.

[1:19:40] uh including uh issuing a determination

[1:19:43] of consistency with the standards for

[1:19:45] the proposed exterior alterations and

[1:19:48] site improvements at the La Rivera

[1:19:51] Hotel.

[1:19:53] » Do I have a second?

[1:19:54] » I'll second.

[1:19:56] » Can we have a vote, please?

[1:20:00] » Board member Dyer,

[1:20:02] » Yes.

[1:20:02] » Board member Guiier,

[1:20:03] » Yes.

[1:20:04] » Board member Rinstein,

[1:20:05] » Yes.

[1:20:05] » Board member Boris,

[1:20:06] » Yes.

[1:20:07] » And chair Croman,

[1:20:08] » Yes.

[1:20:08] » Motion passes.

[1:20:09] » Great. Thanks very much for that. Um, do

[1:20:11] we have a director's report?

[1:20:13] » I do have uh several announcements.

[1:20:19] » Um, Shelby, do you mind can I can I

[1:20:21] display this? Do I pull it over?

[1:20:25] And I meant to do this while we had more

[1:20:28] of an audience in the room, but if

[1:20:29] anyone's watching later, just so the

[1:20:31] public knows where to find any staff

[1:20:34] level project approval or determination

[1:20:38] of ineligibility, uh this is how you

[1:20:40] will find it.

[1:20:48] So from the city's homepage, you'll go

[1:20:51] up to departments,

[1:20:53] planning and building,

[1:20:58] planning division,

[1:21:02] and then this icon that says current

[1:21:05] planning applications, determinations,

[1:21:07] and approvals. [clears throat]

[1:21:10] And there's several different categories

[1:21:12] here where staff

[1:21:15] leaves notice of of various actions. The

[1:21:18] historic determinations dropdown is

[1:21:20] where you'll be able to access um

[1:21:24] determinations of ineligibility. These

[1:21:26] are are a little bit old. We we add the

[1:21:30] determinations of ineligibility on the

[1:21:33] first day of the appeal period. Um

[1:21:36] here's some some old ones, but I'll just

[1:21:37] pull this one up.

[1:21:40] So you'll see the cover sheet which the

[1:21:44] board just recently approved this new

[1:21:45] format which will say

[1:21:48] why the property uh is ineligible and

[1:21:52] then the the report itself is also

[1:21:54] accessible. Um you can see maps

[1:21:58] um photographs.

[1:22:00] So that is where

[1:22:03] the city posts posts things. And then I

[1:22:06] have a few other um announcements.

[1:22:10] Last [cough and clears throat] week uh

[1:22:11] the city

[1:22:13] hosted an objective design and

[1:22:15] development standard for the downtown

[1:22:19] workshop uh last Wednesday.

[1:22:22] [clears throat] This was the fourth

[1:22:23] workshop and it was co-hosted by the

[1:22:26] principal planner Marne Waffle and our

[1:22:28] consultant Optic Coast Design. So, the

[1:22:31] city is soliciting feedback on preferred

[1:22:33] architectural styles for multifamily and

[1:22:37] mixeduse housing in the villages

[1:22:38] downtown. Um, we're seeking feedback on

[1:22:42] also which which architectural design

[1:22:45] element should be regulated for each

[1:22:47] architectural style. So, if you missed

[1:22:49] the work workshop, you can view the

[1:22:51] PowerPoint presentation and you can

[1:22:53] watch the meeting on our YouTube channel

[1:22:56] and last week's Friday letter also had a

[1:22:59] blurb about the workshop with pertinent

[1:23:01] links. So, there's there are surveys.

[1:23:03] So, I highly encourage the board and

[1:23:06] members of the public to get involved

[1:23:08] because that's very project with a great

[1:23:11] impact. My second announcement is that

[1:23:13] the city has hired a new planning and

[1:23:15] building director, Andy Mrick. And Andy

[1:23:19] will be joining us on September 30th,

[1:23:21] and we're very excited to welcome him.

[1:23:23] So, you'll be meeting him in o in

[1:23:26] October.

[1:23:28] Third announcement is that, as you know,

[1:23:30] the board is registered for a two-part

[1:23:32] virtual training on the secretary of the

[1:23:33] interior standards. Uh part one was last

[1:23:36] week and part two is uh tomorrow. I

[1:23:38] believe the webinars are recorded and I

[1:23:41] will be sending out the recording links

[1:23:43] as soon as I receive them.

[1:23:46] Additionally, U Meg Clovis will present

[1:23:48] an in-person refresher on the standards

[1:23:50] as requested at a date yet to be

[1:23:52] determined, but definitely haven't

[1:23:54] forgotten about that. Thank you to the

[1:23:56] board for attending that joint HRB

[1:23:58] planning commission meeting on September

[1:24:00] 9th to consider the upcoming

[1:24:02] rehabilitation of the Harrison Memorial

[1:24:04] Library. Um the board issued a

[1:24:07] determination of consistency with the

[1:24:08] standards and then the planning

[1:24:10] commission approved the design review

[1:24:11] application and then a design for that

[1:24:14] plaque recognizing MJ Murphy and Bernard

[1:24:17] Maybeck will be brought back to the

[1:24:19] board for final copy approval. And this

[1:24:21] is a city property so we have a lot of

[1:24:24] control over that plaque. And then um

[1:24:28] the design guidelines 1.5 will be

[1:24:31] brought back to the planning commission

[1:24:33] in October and then sub subsequently uh

[1:24:36] considered by the city council and

[1:24:39] according to council members Baron and

[1:24:42] Delves who are the city council sponsors

[1:24:44] of that project. The inclusion of the

[1:24:46] draft visual history section will be

[1:24:48] postponed until after the main document

[1:24:50] has been approved.

[1:24:52] And then my last announcement is that we

[1:24:55] are going to pull the board for

[1:24:57] availability to adjust the meeting time

[1:24:59] of the regularly scheduled October 19th

[1:25:02] meeting because the chambers is going to

[1:25:04] be in use uh for another meeting that

[1:25:08] day. We're going to reach out to you

[1:25:09] tomorrow via email to see if maybe a

[1:25:11] morning meeting time could be feasible.

[1:25:15] » Super. Thanks.

[1:25:16] » So when do we get the visual history

[1:25:17] then? Because we still need to approve

[1:25:19] it, right?

[1:25:21] The only update I have is that the

[1:25:24] document is going to be considered

[1:25:26] without it in the short term

[1:25:28] [clears throat]

[1:25:30] per council members Baron and Delves,

[1:25:34] » But we asked it to have it back to

[1:25:37] [clears throat] review. So,

[1:25:39] » I understand that they're not going to

[1:25:40] include it in the main document at this

[1:25:41] point, but I think it it's kind of nice

[1:25:43] that if we get our work done, they can

[1:25:46] then have the option to include it or

[1:25:48] not include it, I guess.

[1:25:51] When I receive

[1:25:54] the guidance from the council members,

[1:25:57] uh, we'll bring it back to you.

[1:26:00] » Is it decoupling the project though if

[1:26:02] we do it? I mean, it's like we're doing

[1:26:04] the same thing but not doing it.

[1:26:07] » I'd recommend any member of the public

[1:26:09] who has questions about it to contact

[1:26:11] the council member project sponsors.

[1:26:15] » Okay.

[1:26:17] Okay. Well, thanks for the report. Um,

[1:26:20] our next regular meeting is scheduled

[1:26:22] for the 19th of October. As Katherine

[1:26:24] said, I guess we're going to look at

[1:26:24] some alternate timings for that. Um, any

[1:26:27] other comments before we adjourn.

[1:26:30] Okay. Thanks everybody on the board and

[1:26:32] thanks for the public for joining us

[1:26:34] today. Uh, the meeting's adjourned.

[1:26:36] » Thank you.

[1:26:44] Um I think I think we can raise it as a

[1:26:48] um a future agenda item and we can just

[1:26:50] make a decision on it. Yeah.

[1:26:52] » Yeah. [clears throat]

[1:26:53] » Yeah. I will reach out to our clerk who

[1:26:56] I think handles those proclamations and

[1:26:58] I'll get more information for you.

Historic Resources Board Regular Meeting

Transcript