[0:00] To the republic for which it stands, one

[0:03] nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[0:07] justice for all.

[0:15] My apologies to the people who are trying to watch the

[0:19] broadcast tonight. The technology is a wonderful

[0:23] thing except for when it doesn't want to work.

[0:27] But we're up and running now.

[0:30] Gail, roll call, please.

[0:34] Mr. Carr?

[0:35] Here.

[0:35] Mr. White?

[0:36] Here.

[0:37] Dr. Schubring?

[0:38] Here.

[0:39] Mr. Gilbert?

[0:40] Here.

[0:40] Mr. Harris?

[0:42] Mr. Lillard?

[0:44] Here.

[0:45] Mr. Matthews?

[0:46] Here.

[0:48] Mr. Pikulski?

[0:48] Here.

[0:49] Ms. Emma Simmons?

[0:51] Here.

[0:51] Ms. Sarah Simmons?

[0:52] Here.

[0:53] Thank you.

[0:57] First item of business is the minutes

[1:02] of our June 9, 2026 meeting. Do we have a motion to

[1:06] approve?

[1:07] Motion to approve.

[1:08] Second.

[1:11] All in favor, say aye.

[1:12] Aye.

[1:14] Aye.

[1:14] Opposed?

[1:17] It's unanimous, Gail.

[1:18] Thank you.

[1:22] Open to the public.

[1:26] Let's see.

[1:30] Bruce,

[1:32] 17 Susan Trail?

[1:34] That's me.

[1:39] Good afternoon, folks.

[1:41] As usual, I only show up when I'm concerned about something.

[1:47] I noticed there's reference to

[1:50] mobile homes

[1:53] in Carroll Valley.

[1:55] I understand. I've already read that

[2:00] fine piece of legislation you prepared.

[2:03] And

[2:05] I, for one, as someone that has three

[2:09] vacant lots around the perimeter of my property, is

[2:12] concerned

[2:14] that

[2:17] you'll allow someone to bring in

[2:20] a mobile home and set it up on piers

[2:24] and have skirting around it that does not fit the

[2:29] rest of the community, especially when two blocks from

[2:33] my house,

[2:34] they're building a new home

[2:37] with a price tag of $670,000.

[2:41] And right down the street from that one, there's one that just sold for

[2:44] $699,000.

[2:48] My house ain't worth $600,000, but I'm concerned

[2:51] about the value

[2:56] allowing such

[2:59] residences like you did on High Trail.

[3:02] I believe it's High.

[3:03] It's High.

[3:04] Yeah. See, I get Hilltop and High mixed up.

[3:09] One thing I would like to suggest

[3:12] is

[3:15] you add to this,

[3:17] you don't allow any structure that's on a

[3:21] metal frame,

[3:23] and that'll take care of that type of problem,

[3:26] because HUD

[3:29] classifies mobile home as a manufactured

[3:32] housing, and like most government

[3:36] regulations, they

[3:38] sort of

[3:40] allow mobile homes not to have the

[3:43] necessary six-inch exterior walls and that

[3:47] type of construction.

[3:49] They have their own little rules about that.

[3:55] And I just don't want to see our neighborhood

[3:58] decrease in value because of mobile homes.

[4:03] We have one. I think we have two, but that one looks more like a

[4:07] conventional home.

[4:11] Put a clause in there for

[4:14] either it have a metal frame,

[4:18] or you insist on having

[4:21] a complete concrete

[4:25] perimeter foundation for it,

[4:29] because sitting on cinder blocks, even though they

[4:33] have mortar attached to them, they're sitting on concrete piers.

[4:39] That's not what our neighborhood

[4:44] wants to see.

[4:47] But

[4:48] we'll see what happens, right? So

[4:52] I was told that Carroll Valley was being forced

[4:56] by the state to

[4:59] allow mobile homes on separate lots.

[5:02] I haven't found it,

[5:04] not through the state.

[5:07] So I don't know what's going on there.

[5:10] If someone can explain it to me, I would appreciate it.

[5:13] But

[5:15] thank you very much

[5:19] for listening.

[5:20] Thank you.

[5:21] I'm glad to try to give an explanation.

[5:23] However, I fear that it's not going to satisfy you much.

[5:27] I'm sure.

[5:27] But the reality is, and it's not that the

[5:31] state is involved in any way, but there are

[5:35] federal court cases which deem it discrimination

[5:40] against single-family homes,

[5:43] mobile homes. So

[5:46] my understanding of the case law, and I think this is throughout the

[5:49] country, is when you allow single-family homes in places,

[5:53] their construction type

[5:56] isn't the issue. It's whether or not it's a single family living in it.

[6:00] Now, with that said, you can prohibit the

[6:04] mobile portion of it. So what our rules are

[6:09] Even for the house that was mentioned, I've gotten the question about that one in

[6:12] particular a lot, is if they take the tongue off

[6:16] of it, they take the wheels off of it, literally cut them all

[6:20] off, and they permanently attach it to the

[6:24] ground, it's not considered a mobile home anymore, it's considered a single

[6:28] family home. So I understand

[6:32] the concern.

[6:34] We have square footage requirements

[6:38] that are higher than many mobile homes,

[6:42] and that was intentional. I've been here that long.

[6:44] I can remember that that was put in place in that way.

[6:48] You just have to be careful on how you word your regulations,

[6:52] because you just can't outwardly discriminate against somebody

[6:56] who owns a mobile home,

[6:59] because that's federally protected.

[7:01] That's all. So I don't know that I've answered the question, but I hear what he's

[7:05] saying. But again, not unlike every other type of property use,

[7:09] you have to allow that use somewhere in the borough.

[7:12] We've talked about that a lot with zoning stuff.

[7:14] So you're not allowed to have mobile homes

[7:18] everywhere in Carroll Valley

[7:20] in our current ordinances.

[7:23] So in most of Carroll Valley,

[7:26] if they were to utilize a structure, not unlike the example he mentioned,

[7:30] they have to take steps to make it not mobile.

[7:37] So Dave, I know exactly which two houses you're talking about.

[7:40] They're right around the corner from me.

[7:43] The one that

[7:46] I'm sure you're talking about the most is the one that was built without a concrete

[7:49] foundation. It's built basically on a deck.

[7:54] Right? So that, to me, is not a permanent structure, because at some

[7:58] point, 20 years down the road, those are going to fail more than

[8:01] likely. We all know that. It's no different than building your deck, and 20

[8:05] years out, you're going to have to replace part of it because it's failing.

[8:09] And I

[8:10] drive past that thing often.

[8:13] It's terrible. Now, the other one

[8:17] that's on the corner down there-

[8:18] Mm

[8:19] ... that looks more like a traditional home, and I do

[8:22] not believe that it was built in the same manner.

[8:26] It was built more like you would expect it to be built.

[8:30] But this one, that in particular up there on High

[8:34] Trail,

[8:36] I said when I saw it going up, I said, "I don't know how that got approved

[8:40] to be built like that."

[8:41] That's a stick build.

[8:43] Yeah.

[8:44] And it is, and it can-

[8:46] Mobile home that was brought in on the trailer.

[8:49] The one on the

[8:51] piers.

[8:51] Yeah.

[8:54] That conforms to uniform construction code.

[8:57] That's allowed in the state of Pennsylvania.

[9:00] I'm in no position to

[9:04] give an opinion on whether or not it'll last forever, because I'm not an expert in

[9:08] that field.

[9:09] Me either. Common sense.

[9:11] But ultimately, we have to comply with the same laws as every other

[9:15] municipality in the state of Pennsylvania as it relates to those

[9:18] construction techniques.

[9:22] The other one is permanently affixed to the ground.

[9:24] Are we discussing-

[9:25] But we don't have a rule that says you shouldn't have

[9:29] skirting, because I think the skirting is what really makes that one jump out.

[9:32] Are we discussing manufactured homes, or are we discussing mobile homes?

[9:36] Mobile.

[9:37] There's no difference according to HUD.

[9:40] Exactly, and you have a-

[9:42] HUD calls them all manufactured homes.

[9:46] PMCA refers to them as

[9:50] mobile homes,

[9:52] but now they say they're manufactured homes.

[9:56] As far as a removable tongue and the axles, they unfold.

[10:01] And this thing, they could still take that thing apart and take it anywhere they

[10:05] wanted to if they wanted to move.

[10:08] What I was trying to say is if it comes in on a trailer, that framing of the

[10:12] trailer is still attached to the bottom of the house.

[10:15] That, as mobile homes should be allowed.

[10:18] If it's a prefab house that comes in on a trailer, they take

[10:21] pieces of it off that are already assembled, and then assemble it on a solid

[10:25] foundation.

[10:26] And according to

[10:29] what I've looked under the regulations,

[10:32] and the PMCA, they're supposed to have someone

[10:36] for the mobile home now, the one that doesn't look like a

[10:40] trailer, but it's a trailer.

[10:43] They're supposed to be certified and licensed with the state just to

[10:47] put the thing together,

[10:49] and whether they're not certified, I don't know.

[10:53] The building inspection stuff, we have PMCA do all that stuff

[10:57] for us, so I couldn't speak to really any of the items.

[11:01] But the reality is, and regardless

[11:05] of, quite frankly, anybody's opinion in the room,

[11:09] we have to do what the federal government has said.

[11:11] There's case law on it. It's discrimination.

[11:15] Single-family home, the only thing you can do is tinker around the

[11:18] edges of your rules, like having minimum square footages and things of

[11:22] that nature that make it less likely to happen.

[11:25] But otherwise-

[11:27] Or like any other...

[11:32] Which you do

[11:32] ... You can use your zoning districts.

[11:34] Why is the area with

[11:38] $600,000, $700,000 homes

[11:41] an area where you allow these mobile homes?

[11:44] Because according to the federal government, I'll say it one more time.

[11:47] According to the federal case law, according to the federal

[11:50] government, a mobile home that has had the mobile

[11:54] appurtenances removed from it and is permanently affixed to the land is a

[11:58] single family home, just like any other.

[12:01] And if you

[12:03] limit it in any way, it's discrimination.

[12:05] Are there any neighborhoods, may I ask you a question?

[12:08] Are there any neighborhoods in this borough where

[12:12] you won't allow a mobile home set up on an empty lot?

[12:19] Once they've removed that stuff, it's not a mobile home.

[12:23] Yep. So you're telling me any lot that's

[12:26] available in Carroll Valley can have a mobile home installed?

[12:32] As long as they take the wheels and tongue off.

[12:33] Yeah, if they take the-

[12:33] Again,

[12:35] where we allow single family dwellings, the federal government says that

[12:39] it's a single family dwelling if they do certain steps to make

[12:43] it non-mobile.

[12:46] That's the

[12:48] law. That governs our whole land.

[12:51] I

[12:52] don't

[12:54] want to give my opinion about whether I agree or disagree.

[12:56] Yeah.

[12:56] But it does create concern about-

[12:59] Because you don't even live in Carroll Valley, correct?

[13:02] Okay, so this has no impact on you

[13:05] personally. Professionally, yes,

[13:08] but no impact on you.

[13:09] Well, I think whether I live here or not has absolutely no bearing on today's

[13:13] conversation.

[13:13] Well, yes, it does when decisions are made and laws are written about it.

[13:16] Okay. Well, then we'll let the attorney, who also doesn't live in Carroll Valley,

[13:19] but also is paid to give them

[13:23] understandings of what the law is about whether or not I'm correct.

[13:27] Okay. I think where we're-

[13:29] Okay, I want to sit down. I understand nothing can be done.

[13:32] You're going to go ahead and do it.

[13:34] Well-

[13:34] And all I will say is-

[13:36] What I was going to follow up with is-

[13:38] ... all you folks have

[13:40] completed neighborhoods. You don't have any empty lots next door.

[13:44] Oh, I do.

[13:44] Oh, I've got three of them that I own.

[13:47] I do. I do.

[13:47] Okay. Well-

[13:47] Right next to my house

[13:49] ... y'all are putting mobile homes on them.

[13:50] Perhaps you would both-

[13:51] Perhaps to allay any concerns that he has, you might want to look at

[13:55] the minimum square footage requirements again.

[13:58] Make sure that in this day and age, that they still work.

[14:01] It's been many years since we've put that in place.

[14:03] Probably about 20 years ago, so.

[14:05] Dave, what about this? I think the reason that one particular house

[14:09] catches so much attention is because of the way it was built

[14:13] on those pylons, those wooden pylons.

[14:17] Could we make a rule or an

[14:21] ordinance, whatever it is, to say that it would have to be a concrete

[14:25] foundation?

[14:26] I would have to look into it. I'm not 100%.

[14:29] Actually, I have less than-

[14:30] Because-

[14:30] ... 50% understanding really of what the laws would be for that

[14:32] ... because I think if it had been built more traditionally like that, it would be

[14:36] probably no issue or certainly much less of an issue.

[14:40] We can look into it and report back to council.

[14:43] Can I-

[14:43] I understand that.

[14:45] We have some kind of a ordinance that says existing

[14:49] or new buildings have to conform to

[14:55] appearance.

[14:59] No, we can't

[15:02] regulate appearances at all,

[15:06] but

[15:08] I'm trying to think of an instance that might be

[15:11] similar.

[15:14] I have something.

[15:15] If, I think what Bruce was bringing up, I think you're doing it because of

[15:19] the advertisement for new Chapter 22,

[15:23] correct?

[15:24] Yes.

[15:25] Okay.

[15:25] That's all I'm doing. I-

[15:26] Chapter 22 isn't even on the agenda tonight, and we haven't

[15:30] scheduled the public hearing on it yet.

[15:32] Yes. Yeah.

[15:33] The issue,

[15:35] what we can do at this point, as the planning committee,

[15:40] and look at what was in old 22

[15:45] versus what is in new 22.

[15:49] Because 22

[15:52] hasn't been finalized.

[15:56] So you're raising an issue

[15:59] the planning committee could give us some feedback on, so that

[16:03] we'll know how does this

[16:07] new proposal

[16:09] differ from the old proposal?

[16:12] When council received it, we saw the whole new, but

[16:16] we did not see what was removed

[16:20] versus what was added. So really, council can't

[16:24] really give you a good answer,

[16:27] but Dave has told you what the law is.

[16:30] Yes.

[16:30] So

[16:32] the question is,

[16:34] does the new document differ from what has been in place for

[16:38] a very long time?

[16:39] I just want to highlight though, that most of what we just talked about is our

[16:43] zoning ordinance regulations, not subdivision and land development

[16:47] ordinance regulations. Subdivision and land development's references to

[16:51] mobile homes are related to mobile home parks, and they are

[16:55] only permitted in a-

[16:58] Okay, so Chapter 22 is only going to be for parks.

[17:02] That's what I'm hearing.

[17:02] Mobile home parks.

[17:04] Parks.

[17:06] Yes, that's true. Because it's a-

[17:08] Sir, I can show you right now, because where it says, "Unless they're

[17:12] built on the individual property." It states

[17:16] that very clearly, more than one time.

[17:22] Yeah. Yeah.

[17:23] Okay. I'll come back to the next council meeting instead of dragging it out

[17:27] through here.

[17:28] Yeah. Yeah. We-

[17:29] And I'll have more details

[17:29] ... we're not at the public hearing stage yet.

[17:32] Okay. I'll wait until the public hearing.

[17:34] Are we going to have that tonight?

[17:36] No, it's not on the agenda.

[17:38] No, it needed to be advertised for a longer period of time, and we're still

[17:42] awaiting comments from the Adams County planning department on it.

[17:46] So it'll be

[17:48] September on the-

[17:49] Great. Then I'll be back.

[17:51] But it would-

[17:54] Mr. President.

[17:54] That's all right. It gives us something to look at-

[17:57] Sure

[17:57] ... in the meantime.

[17:58] But thank you for your cooperation.

[18:00] Mr. President?

[18:01] Yes.

[18:02] I would like to put an addendum to that then.

[18:07] I don't believe there's anything in our regulation or codes

[18:10] pertaining to data centers,

[18:15] and that's becoming a hot item,

[18:18] and I think it's something that we need to address one way or the other.

[18:22] Either permit, not permit, or whatever

[18:28] The first time I thought about it, I said, "Well, we don't have any place that's

[18:31] big enough to put a data center."

[18:35] And a little bit of research says, "Oh no, all you need is

[18:39] about a half an acre."

[18:41] And so I don't think we talk to that at all in any of

[18:45] our ordinances, and I think it's time we do

[18:49] try to get ahead of the

[18:51] power curve on that.

[18:53] Yes, please. I'm from Loudoun County, Virginia.

[18:58] There is where they have

[19:01] 95% of the data centers.

[19:03] Yeah. And that is a

[19:07] big topic now. Lots of municipalities are working on that, I'm

[19:11] sure. Zach has been involved in it as well.

[19:16] Primarily, I would deal with that through your zoning ordinance.

[19:19] The idea that you don't want any other use that

[19:23] you realistically don't want to have, you want to use your map and districts-

[19:27] ... makes sense. And then beyond that, what kind of-

[19:29] That's what he said

[19:29] ... dimensional criteria and whatnot.

[19:32] They're just examples.

[19:34] More common in your townships, I think, where there's a little bit more

[19:38] land.

[19:42] Zach,

[19:44] are data centers defined as commercial?

[19:47] I don't think your zoning ordinance addresses data centers-

[19:50] At all

[19:50] ... at all right now.

[19:51] I agree that-

[19:52] The point from Mr. Carr would be, I think your point, I don't want to speak for

[19:56] you, was let's make sure the zoning ordinance addresses it in some way, so

[20:00] that if there was

[20:02] interest in developing a data center in the borough, you'd have something on the

[20:06] books to point to and say, "Well, you're restricted to only doing it here, and

[20:09] you've got to abide by this set of criteria." Whereas right now, there's really

[20:13] nothing.

[20:14] Let me ask a different way. So,

[20:19] would data centers or any other business, would this

[20:23] always be considered a business? So that if we have zoned only for

[20:27] business, it would have to be in a business area. At least we'd have that much.

[20:33] I

[20:34] suppose you could try to shoehorn it into some other broader

[20:37] commercial or industrial. But the rub there

[20:41] then is even if that works, you haven't legislated the

[20:47] lot size,

[20:49] all the dimensional criteria that you probably would want to sit down and think

[20:51] about and say, "What are the setbacks for this thing?

[20:54] What are the height requirements?" So, in other words,

[20:58] you'd be trying to shoehorn it into something where it probably doesn't fit that

[21:01] great anyway.

[21:04] But that's why I think most municipalities have been just

[21:08] tackling it head on and creating a use in the zoning ordinance, calling it data

[21:12] center,

[21:14] battery energy storage system, as well, and then

[21:17] putting it right into your zoning ordinance and saying, "Only in this district,

[21:21] only by conditional exception, and then subject to this

[21:25] set of criteria."

[21:26] Yeah. The three big ones there are noise,

[21:30] water, and electricity.

[21:32] We know what that is. We just got to get in front of it.

[21:36] Yeah.

[21:37] Could I suggest that you just recommend that the planning commission look at that

[21:40] issue? And then could I also add a second comment, which

[21:44] is another topic that had been in my mind for you guys to think about, and

[21:48] that was solar farms.

[21:54] Sorry, we have a few places they

[21:56] could put them.

[21:58] Yeah.

[21:58] And Pennsylvania in particular,

[22:00] they're getting as much pressure from solar farms.

[22:03] Didn't I ask you that three months ago?

[22:04] I don't know.

[22:08] Just didn't ask in the right context.

[22:09] Solar and data centers are now on the agenda for the

[22:13] planning commission.

[22:14] No, they weren't doing-

[22:15] Congratulations.

[22:16] Yeah. Thank you.

[22:20] No additional work for you.

[22:21] Okay.

[22:25] We'll be right there, huh?

[22:27] All right.

[22:29] There's no ordinances and resolutions on the agenda

[22:32] for tonight, so we'll move on to the mayor's report.

[22:36] Ralph?

[22:42] One second. Or do you want it?

[22:47] Next slide.

[22:52] I'm going to give a short version of the police report.

[22:55] The chief's not here. He's at Fairfield,

[23:00] their meeting, and then he's going to here later this

[23:04] evening.

[23:06] Next slide.

[23:11] To the part I just want to address is National Night Out,

[23:15] August the 4th. We have it each year,

[23:19] 5 to

[23:20] 8.

[23:22] Purpose is to strengthen community spirit,

[23:26] foster

[23:27] positive

[23:34] residents. Should come.

[23:41] Have inviting different

[23:42] organizations. Appearance.

[23:48] I'll read some of the people who they have invited.

[23:52] Adams County 4-H, Adams County

[23:56] Department of Probation, Adams County Sheriff's

[24:00] Department,

[24:01] Adams Regional EMS,

[24:04] the American Bikers on Mission, Ashley

[24:08] and Carroll Gardens Police Department, the FBI Seeing

[24:12] Eye Dog, Fish and Boat Department,

[24:16] Conservation and Natural Resources, Collaborating for

[24:20] Youth, Neighbors Helping Neighbors, Fountaindale Fire

[24:23] Department, Healthy Adams, PA Game Commission,

[24:28] Reverend

[24:30] Raden, right? R-A-D-E-N.

[24:34] Raven Rock. Thank you. Raven Rock Fire Department

[24:39] and others.

[24:41] I think

[24:43] kids who attend will want...

[24:48] I guess they're going to hand out a form.

[24:50] They do a scavenger hunt, which you stop at each

[24:54] of the places that are in this

[24:58] arena that they're going to

[25:02] sign off on, and then they're eligible to win

[25:06] a bicycle

[25:08] helmet. And there'll be food,

[25:12] so they come for food, ice cream.

[25:16] So if you have a chance,

[25:18] please come 5:00 to 8:00.

[25:21] May I interject for just a moment, Ron?

[25:24] Sure.

[25:24] I'd like to thank Bikers on a Mission for donating the prizes for

[25:28] National Night Out. We are giving away three bicycles and three helmets-

[25:34] Yes

[25:34] ... in completion of the scavenger hunt.

[25:38] And they were gracious enough to give us the

[25:42] means to do that this year. So I just wanted to do a shout-out to them before.

[25:45] Yeah, no, that's great.

[25:47] They'll get it in other places, but tonight they get it now. Thank you.

[25:51] Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you for bringing that up.

[25:54] Next slide, please.

[25:56] Around town. Next slide, please.

[25:59] I heard about the goat yoga in the park,

[26:03] and everybody seemed to enjoy it very much.

[26:07] I don't know how,

[26:09] do the goats get older and-

[26:15] Yeah, right.

[26:16] Gail? Yes. Okay.

[26:18] Yes. As the goats get older,

[26:20] they do not travel as well as the little goats.

[26:24] So we did have two

[26:28] events of goat yoga in the park, and now you would have to

[26:32] go to,

[26:33] I guess, the farm where they live to do that.

[26:36] But as the new crop of kids,

[26:40] the babies, come out,

[26:42] we will offer that again, if not this fall, then hopefully next

[26:45] spring. Very popular. 20 to 30

[26:49] people at least

[26:51] signing up for that program.

[26:53] Thank you, Gail. Next slide, please.

[26:58] Well, could you say a few words about the July

[27:02] 4th event? I think it was fantastic.

[27:06] And one of the things, I'll just bring it up, I don't know if Gail's

[27:10] going to mention it.

[27:12] There was a tent

[27:14] that was as large as the basketball field,

[27:18] and

[27:20] it was being used to get under for shade.

[27:24] Yes?

[27:25] And it so happened it rained,

[27:29] and everybody went to the tent. Some people went back to their

[27:32] cars,

[27:34] but I think the tent really was a fantastic idea.

[27:38] Gail?

[27:40] It was a great day. It was very warm.

[27:43] They were calling for some heat advisories and some

[27:47] issues. We were able to have cooling stations.

[27:52] So everybody that was involved that made that happen, thank you.

[27:57] The

[27:59] money that we had for the event this year, we were able

[28:03] to

[28:05] have some 250th giveaways.

[28:10] The fans were a hit,

[28:12] and not just the fans of the

[28:15] bands, but the fans that used to take the heat away,

[28:19] because they were

[28:21] very, very popular. Otherwise, the fireworks went off without

[28:25] a hitch.

[28:26] We had the cars came back this year.

[28:30] They seemed to also be a hit, and I saw several of our

[28:34] elected officials there. Thank you very much.

[28:36] And a lot of our

[28:39] community.

[28:41] It was just an awesome day.

[28:44] If you want to see the pictures, ronspictures.net.

[28:47] And you can see all the pictures. Dave got some interesting

[28:52] pictures, since he was up on the top of the mountain

[28:56] and seeing them being shot off.

[28:59] So thank you, Dave. Yep. Next slide, please.

[29:03] Food truck every Friday through September.

[29:08] And the menu changes, I believe. Right, Gail?

[29:12] Yes, it does. There's a different setup each week.

[29:15] We have been trying to get it out by Monday or

[29:19] Tuesday onto our social medias, on the

[29:22] front sign.

[29:24] This has been a phenomenal new

[29:28] addition to the Parks and Rec committee.

[29:30] I

[29:32] give them kudos. There is somebody from the Parks and Rec committee there

[29:36] every week

[29:38] to help out. And we have three or four

[29:41] trucks,

[29:44] usually two food, some type of a specialty drink, and

[29:47] then a dessert truck. And

[29:52] it's just phenomenal. Everybody loves it.

[29:54] There's people here in our park every Friday night.

[29:57] I encourage anybody who hasn't been down to please stop

[30:01] down. You get to know your neighbors and

[30:05] enjoy some delicious food as well.

[30:08] Next slide, please.

[30:11] I'll turn this over to Emma.

[30:13] Thank you, Ron.

[30:15] I'm happy to report to council that the youth reading program that you

[30:19] approved last meeting is fully up and running.

[30:23] Under the name Little Readers and Local Leaders, we had our first event

[30:27] on July 20th.

[30:29] We had two youth community members participate in the themed story time

[30:33] and craft Led by planning commission member Lisa McLeod

[30:37] Simmons. We have two more upcoming dates, August

[30:40] 17th and September 21st. They're open to everyone in the

[30:44] community,

[30:45] and the council can email me regarding interest in volunteering.

[30:50] And thank you again for this opportunity.

[30:53] Thank you.

[30:55] Next slide, please.

[30:57] Upcoming events. Next slide, please.

[31:01] Throw it out of bounds for August, outside Carroll Valley.

[31:05] One, I don't know if you have attended this.

[31:09] It's going to be played all the way through September the 7th,

[31:13] and that is in the evening at 7:00 p.m.,

[31:17] the bugle is played, "Taps."

[31:20] It's really an emotional moment,

[31:24] and especially when you hear it with echo and so forth.

[31:28] Next thing, which is right next door to us, the

[31:34] Peach. This one is in Eagleville,

[31:39] August 8th and 9th. If you like peach, they got peach

[31:43] different ways, and you can see them.

[31:46] Peach pie, sugar peach, peach bread,

[31:50] peach milkshake, whatever. Next slide, please.

[31:54] Yeah, this is the one I was thinking about. Granite Hill Camping Resort.

[31:58] It's right down 116.

[32:01] August the 13th to the 16th, the 91st

[32:05] Gettysburg Bluegrass Festival. And then

[32:09] there is the Jeep Fest. You'll see different

[32:13] vintage

[32:16] Jeeps, military Jeeps.

[32:19] And where is that? The World War II American

[32:22] Experience Museum, which is in Gettysburg.

[32:27] Next slide, please.

[32:30] There's a blood drive September

[32:34] the 18th,

[32:36] and you could see,

[32:38] I'll read it, parts of it, but you can look and see what it says.

[32:42] Meeting room here, noon to 5:00. You

[32:45] should call and make an appointment, but walk-ins

[32:49] are

[32:50] welcome.

[32:52] Wait a little while.

[32:54] Next slide, please.

[32:57] Next slide, please.

[33:03] Next slide, please.

[33:11] Next slide, please. Thanks for listening.

[33:17] Thank you.

[33:20] Up is the

[33:23] fire and EMS reports, Arms, Fairfield Fire

[33:27] Department, and Fountain Dale Fire Department all submitted reports

[33:30] for

[33:32] the month of June.

[33:34] Any questions?

[33:36] I got

[33:37] something I'd like to say. I got a call from Bill Jacobs a couple weeks back.

[33:43] Bill's been here recently making his feelings known

[33:47] about the whole situation with the way the money is

[33:50] divided up,

[33:52] and he was

[33:55] asking me about that again, and I just told him I would bring

[33:59] his comments to the council and just

[34:03] lay them out here. He said to me that apparently at

[34:07] this point, they were supposed to have received

[34:09] $80,000, and they've only received 75,000.

[34:13] I'm just telling you what he said.

[34:15] He brought up the 87.5% versus

[34:19] 12.5% again with me. And yeah,

[34:23] I see the look on your face.

[34:25] But I told him I would bring it and put it out here, but I thought all

[34:29] these items were taken care of by the

[34:34] fire committee after Bill was here that time.

[34:37] So it's just...

[34:43] I think he was just

[34:44] reiterating what he has said in the past.

[34:47] But I promised him I would bring it up, so there you go.

[34:51] Well,

[34:53] council said no.

[34:54] He was concerned about that 5K,

[34:57] what he perceives as a 5K shortage.

[35:01] And he talked a lot about

[35:08] the possibility that

[35:12] Fairfield Fire

[35:16] might not be around too many years.

[35:19] That's

[35:20] not unique to Fairfield Fire.

[35:22] Yeah, so-

[35:23] That's a problem that we have statewide.

[35:28] And what Mr. Jacobs wanted to do

[35:32] was to take half of the money that we give

[35:35] to Fountain Dale

[35:39] to them,

[35:40] to

[35:41] Fairfield,

[35:43] which would be

[35:45] an acceleration of the problem

[35:49] if Fountain Dale might have.

[35:52] And this council

[35:54] said no,

[35:56] and Mr. Jacobs just can't accept no for an

[35:59] answer.

[36:02] And

[36:04] the

[36:05] last orderly meeting was rescheduled.

[36:09] We'll have one again in August.

[36:12] I know that Mike wants to be involved with that.

[36:16] Dave will be involved with that.

[36:19] And I plan to go,

[36:21] and he can complain to us again.

[36:24] But

[36:26] there's no entitlements.

[36:29] These are taxpayer dollars that the council can choose

[36:34] how much of it goes to what fire department

[36:39] And Mr. Jacobs seems to think that he deserves

[36:43] damn near everything,

[36:46] and that

[36:48] is unacceptable.

[36:52] At least for me, it's very unacceptable.

[36:55] I can't see how one fire chief would do

[36:59] anything

[37:00] that would hurt another fire company,

[37:04] and that's what he's trying to do.

[37:07] It's unacceptable.

[37:14] And I know that's probably a violation of decorum, but it's

[37:18] a statement of reality. Sorry I even had to bring it up.

[37:22] Oh, it's not your fault, Mike. He's been doing this for years.

[37:25] He has, yeah.

[37:29] But

[37:31] any other issues on this?

[37:37] Well, thank you to Arms Fairfield Fire Department and

[37:40] Fountain Dale Fire Department for their monthly report.

[37:45] Committee reports. Finance committee

[37:49] budget year to date. Ron?

[37:52] Ron's gone.

[37:54] Well, thank you to Ron for the Finance Committee report.

[37:57] Anybody got any questions on the Finance Committee report?

[38:04] Hearing none, we'll move on.

[38:07] Nature Trail and Ad Hoc Committee Trail Loop project

[38:13] for advertisement. There's a

[38:16] sizable document that Gail has been working

[38:19] on that addresses

[38:23] the bid

[38:25] for this.

[38:27] And so,

[38:29] it's already been blessed by

[38:33] GMS,

[38:35] and it's been reviewed.

[38:38] It's been reviewed by the

[38:43] attorney and

[38:46] our funding administrator, as well as being presented

[38:50] forward by the committee with their approval.

[38:52] So it has met all of those,

[38:55] and it is before you to advertise for

[38:59] bids.

[39:00] I'll make a motion we put it out for advertisement.

[39:04] Okay. We have a motion. Do we have a second?

[39:07] Second.

[39:09] Any discussion?

[39:13] All in favor say aye. Aye.

[39:15] Aye.

[39:17] Opposed?

[39:19] Dave wants to-

[39:19] I just wanted to add, it didn't need to be during the discussion for me to say it,

[39:23] but I wanted to point out to those of you, just in case you didn't

[39:27] notice, most of the committee is in the room this evening.

[39:31] That's how much they believe in this project,

[39:35] and how much they were hoping to get your support to move on that

[39:39] step. And I know that they're excited to bring this

[39:42] project a step closer to construction.

[39:44] So, I want to make sure that we thank them, because they have been putting in a

[39:48] lot of time and effort to getting it to this stage.

[39:51] So thank you to those members who are here.

[39:54] I think they're doing a great job, and I'm looking forward to

[39:58] that trail being built.

[40:00] Greatly appreciate your support.

[40:02] Thank you.

[40:06] Okay.

[40:07] Parks and Recs Committee, we received their report.

[40:14] And

[40:16] thank you to Jenna Gerrell for that report.

[40:20] Anybody have any questions on the

[40:23] Parks and Recs Committee report?

[40:25] I would recommend to the Parks and Rec that they consider an

[40:29] adult

[40:31] affair. Say, like, a Christmas

[40:34] dinner

[40:36] dance party.

[40:43] Is-

[40:43] Okay, I'll make sure we mention that.

[40:45] Yes.

[40:46] She didn't say it, but she was thinking it.

[40:47] Yes, actually, I was. Yep, I can definitely take that back to them.

[40:51] We have tried that in the past, and it didn't

[40:55] take off quite as well as we wanted it to, but we have some new blood on that

[40:58] committee, and they are pretty

[41:01] knowledgeable, so we'll try that one more time,

[41:05] absolutely.

[41:05] And they have been hitting home runs on their ideas and things that they have been

[41:09] doing, so.

[41:09] They really have, so

[41:11] we'll definitely give that to them to try again.

[41:18] Next item up is Zoning Hearing Board

[41:22] vacancy. The Zoning Hearing Board.

[41:25] We have one applicant, Jeff Sable.

[41:30] Do we have a-

[41:33] See-

[41:33] ... motion to approve?

[41:35] Yeah. Is Jeff in the audience by any chance?

[41:39] No?

[41:41] Make a motion we approve.

[41:43] I'll second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion?

[41:51] All in favor say aye. Aye.

[41:52] Aye.

[41:53] Aye.

[41:53] Opposed?

[41:56] Gail, it's unanimous.

[41:58] Thank you very much.

[42:03] Next up is the treasurer's report for June.

[42:09] Are there any questions on the treasurer's report?

[42:15] Hearing none, do we have a motion to approve? Motion to approve.

[42:19] Second.

[42:21] We have a motion and a second. Any discussion?

[42:26] Hearing none, all in favor say aye. Aye.

[42:28] Aye.

[42:29] Aye.

[42:29] Opposed?

[42:31] It's unanimous, Gail.

[42:32] Thank you.

[42:37] Okay, the next item is a storage facility construction bid

[42:46] Yes.

[42:47] New month, same result.

[42:49] There were no bids received

[42:53] for the bid opening of July 9th

[42:57] for our review.

[42:59] That was the second attempt to receive bids.

[43:03] So now according to

[43:08] state law, we can go out and

[43:12] negotiate with any builder that we want.

[43:17] So I guess the question is,

[43:21] does the

[43:21] council

[43:26] want to authorize the borough staff to contact builders

[43:30] and submit quotes for consideration at the August 11,

[43:34] 2026 meeting?

[43:36] You don't need a motion, just direction?

[43:41] A motion wouldn't hurt, but...

[43:42] Okay. Motion to authorize the staff to go ahead and negotiate as appropriate.

[43:47] I'd like to amend that motion to the September meeting.

[43:49] August 11th's coming on pretty quick.

[43:52] It's only a couple of weeks.

[43:53] It is. However,

[43:55] because we didn't get any bids on the 9th,

[44:00] I had spoken to the attorney and to Brad

[44:04] Sanders, our municipal services supervisor, and

[44:08] asked him,

[44:10] once I got permission, that this would be something that we could ask to do.

[44:13] I got permission to

[44:16] bug Brad. So Brad has already been doing that and

[44:19] making phone calls. He fully believes that he should

[44:23] have two or three quotes

[44:26] in August, which is why we said the August

[44:29] meeting. So we didn't put it off

[44:33] one more month with the fact that we don't have a place to put salt.

[44:37] Brad feels that that is putting us really close.

[44:41] Worst case scenario is in the August meeting

[44:45] we don't have two or three for you, and we have to push it to

[44:49] September. But if we have what is considered to be good quotes and

[44:53] enough of them, you would have the opportunity to do that in August.

[44:57] If you don't think we have enough, you just push it for one more month.

[45:01] I'll retract the amendment.

[45:03] Thank you.

[45:03] What-

[45:05] Okay

[45:06] ... any idea why we did not get any bids?

[45:10] From what I understand, it was

[45:13] people have a lot of work right now,

[45:16] so if they

[45:19] decided to put the work into it, the bid would be high.

[45:23] And so Brad is now being able to talk to them and

[45:27] say, "Look,

[45:29] we want you to do this. We want to see what we're up against

[45:33] price-wise," that type of thing,

[45:35] because we have to do something.

[45:38] So he's hoping to be able to get that by actually talking to them.

[45:42] We did hand out from the first one to the second one.

[45:46] I personally emailed packets to

[45:50] companies that we thought would

[45:52] bid. Did not get them back, but they have a full plate.

[45:57] It's not something that they want to do right now.

[46:00] If we had it for the spring, we probably would've gotten bids, but

[46:04] because we want it this fall, it's harder to get them.

[46:09] I honestly don't anticipate it costing additional money.

[46:13] I think that because we've made it to this step, I think it's going to

[46:17] help financially, if you want the truth, because we're able to negotiate

[46:21] and have

[46:23] open discussions with contractors and find the right thing.

[46:27] So, and I don't want to steal Gail's thunder because she's been working hard,

[46:30] but, I did talk to Brad about this this afternoon, and he told me

[46:34] he was certain he would have at least two within a week after

[46:38] you authorize it.

[46:40] So he's been calling people he knows in that business ever

[46:44] since not getting any more bids. So he's lined up a couple of people

[46:48] ready to be responsive the third time.

[46:51] All

[46:56] right.

[46:58] We didn't get a second, did we?

[46:59] Yes. I have Mr. White and Mr. Krukosky.

[47:04] Any other discussion?

[47:08] Hearing none, all in favor say aye.

[47:10] Aye.

[47:12] Opposed?

[47:14] Dave, you still there?

[47:19] Yes.

[47:19] Okay.

[47:22] It's unanimous, Gail.

[47:23] Thank you.

[47:27] Okay, next up is the Adams County Library letter.

[47:33] This is in your packet purely for informational purposes.

[47:37] They had specifically asked that council see the letter.

[47:41] So,

[47:42] once again, thank the Adams County Library System for the partnership

[47:46] that we've had now for almost 10 years.

[47:50] Mm-hmm.

[47:51] Almost 10 years.

[47:53] And we're glad to have them here and

[47:57] it's nice to see some statistics that show the

[48:01] impact that they have on the community. Thank you to them.

[48:04] Now, the letter,

[48:10] that relates to our line item in the budget

[48:16] for them is our support of the library,

[48:20] correct?

[48:21] I think that they're also asking you to consider an

[48:25] additional donation.

[48:28] Over and above the budgeted?

[48:31] For next year.

[48:33] On the-

[48:33] This is in anticipation of your next budget cycle

[48:36] ...

[48:40] oh

[48:52] Okay. GMS has provided their report

[48:56] to us. Do we have any questions

[49:00] or comments regarding the grant funding updates?

[49:10] On to lot sales.

[49:12] You know what? That was probably as good a time of any to give you a couple of

[49:15] updates on some projects. You probably couldn't miss

[49:19] one when you came in.

[49:21] Mm-hmm.

[49:21] You can see the pickleball court construction started

[49:25] yesterday?

[49:26] It did.

[49:27] That's on the agenda.

[49:29] Gail just said that, but she didn't say it as nice.

[49:34] We'll update you then.

[49:36] Did you talk about the Lake Kay Park, and is that on the agenda?

[49:39] Yes.

[49:40] Can I ask a question about the wall-

[49:41] Construction started at Lake Kay on that project as

[49:45] well. The dock has been built. It's under construction right

[49:49] now. And I got to tell you, our guys are just knocking it

[49:53] out of the park. I walked it yesterday. It's really awesome.

[49:57] They're proud of it, too, so I can't wait for everybody to get a chance to take a

[50:00] look at it when it's finished. And it's going to be quite the improvement.

[50:04] That was also one of our grants that we received for that project, too.

[50:08] I actually had a resident tell me last night how good that

[50:12] project looks. That's not done, but it looks great.

[50:18] It's

[50:21] 40% done, and it makes the park look or hundred times-

[50:25] It looks great

[50:25] ... better already.

[50:26] Yeah.

[50:26] So it's

[50:28] really going to turn out nice, and actually,

[50:30] there's been many work hours since I saw it yesterday.

[50:33] So they're making great progress on it.

[50:36] The dock itself should be finished.

[50:38] We have to decide on a railing yet, so it'll be a little while

[50:42] till it's ready to go, but that's one of our projects that we plan on having done

[50:46] here before the

[50:48] leaves start to fall.

[50:50] So I have a question about the pickleball courts, because this was a

[50:54] hot topic on social media yesterday.

[50:56] Was it?

[50:56] It was.

[50:57] Mm-hmm.

[50:57] Because somebody said, "What's going on at the park?" And somebody immediately

[51:01] said, "That's pickleball courts." And somebody made the comment

[51:05] that as soon as other people in the surrounding areas find out we

[51:09] have pickleball courts,

[51:11] our own residents will not be able to get on them because they'll be so busy.

[51:15] So is there

[51:17] going to be some way that our residents can

[51:21] reserve a time on those pickleball courts?

[51:25] We hadn't actually discussed that internally.

[51:27] It might be something to consider.

[51:29] But it

[51:34] seems like something we should be able to do.

[51:37] I'm thinking more along the lines of another project we're

[51:41] working on that involves software for rec scheduling.

[51:44] So

[51:45] it probably is the kind of thing that can be done relatively easily, yeah.

[51:49] I didn't realize pickleball was so popular. I know Mr. White plays.

[51:53] So he might be able to speak to it a little bit, but apparently, it's a big deal,

[51:57] and there's not a lot of courts around, apparently.

[51:59] So this was a hot topic on social media yesterday.

[52:02] Well, especially if scheduling helps to avoid there being conflict in the

[52:06] park over usage, I think we-

[52:07] I don't want to see a couple old guys being nutshell at each other with pickleball

[52:10] paddles.

[52:11] Yeah.

[52:12] They look like they would hurt, yeah.

[52:15] I think that if you wouldn't mind, give me the opportunity to discuss it with

[52:18] staff, and we'll make sure that we come up with a good plan for how we'll tackle

[52:22] that.

[52:24] Mike, you're on security at the pickleball court.

[52:28] Comment.

[52:29] Would it be out of line to

[52:32] have a fee for out-of-staters or

[52:35] out-of-towners

[52:39] to use the court?

[52:41] We charge to use

[52:44] other facilities.

[52:46] We have

[52:47] rates set for other in town,

[52:52] whether it's our people, whether different people.

[52:55] But I think if it is that big a deal,

[52:59] maybe I suggest registration and fees for out

[53:03] of Carroll Valley residents.

[53:08] Council wants us to do that. We have time because although they've

[53:12] made a lot of progress, there's going to be a 30-day period where the

[53:16] surface can't be touched. So

[53:20] there's going to be some time that we could still do an amendment to your fee

[53:23] schedule if you wanted to do those kind of...

[53:26] Whatever you all want to do,

[53:29] I think you can do it. I don't think it's unreasonable, perhaps, that maybe it's

[53:33] not a fee to use it, but maybe it's a fee if you were going to do the reservation

[53:36] and you were an out of town or an out of Carroll Valley person or something.

[53:40] I don't know. I'm just throwing out ideas as well, but we're

[53:44] willing- ... to work with council, whatever they think is most

[53:47] appropriate.

[53:48] Or perhaps we see how it goes for the fall and then adjust it for the fee schedule

[53:52] for next year.

[53:54] A bigger plan.

[53:55] Yeah.

[54:01] Okay. Took care of pickleball. Let's go back up to lot sales.

[54:10] I don't think we had any.

[54:11] We did not.

[54:14] We're still awaiting-

[54:16] Actually, last month, you chose to

[54:20] not put Mason Dixon Trail up for

[54:24] sale again.

[54:26] And I don't know that Dave got the email, but

[54:31] there will be

[54:34] appraisals for the next meeting.

[54:38] So there'll be appraisals that are complete for the next meeting.

[54:41] Thank you.

[54:43] I might note that in the

[54:46] Gettysburg paper today, there was a full page of tax

[54:50] sales going on, so you have some competition.

[54:54] Yeah. About

[54:56] 30.

[54:56] I guess we all-

[54:57] Wait until after the tax sales then.

[54:59] About 30 pair.

[55:01] There's quite a few

[55:04] vacant lots on realtor.com for sale in Carroll Valley right now.

[55:09] Honestly, the real estate market just keeps growing here.

[55:15] No doubt about it.

[55:16] I just

[55:17] went through with Chuck's sign,

[55:20] and there's a lot of perking going on in

[55:24] Carroll Valley.

[55:26] A lot of it.

[55:34] Okay. Meeting decorum.

[55:39] Our May meeting was

[55:43] not our best.

[55:46] Point of order.

[55:47] Yes?

[55:48] The meeting decorum was tabled, so therefore we have to

[55:52] make a motion to take it back off the table.

[55:55] Oh, and that's where I was going.

[55:57] Okay.

[55:59] So

[56:01] the

[56:03] issue at this time is, do we have a motion

[56:07] to

[56:09] take meeting decorum off the table and

[56:13] discuss it tonight?

[56:14] Make that motion.

[56:17] Do we have a second?

[56:19] I'll second.

[56:22] Any dis- okay.

[56:25] Any discussion on that?

[56:28] That's not a debatable topic.

[56:30] That's correct.

[56:33] Okay.

[56:35] All in favor say aye.

[56:37] Aye.

[56:40] Opposed?

[56:45] Hearing none,

[56:47] it's off the table.

[56:51] Okay.

[56:54] Council members have been provided

[56:58] with

[57:00] three documents,

[57:03] two of them which are already on the books,

[57:06] and a third one that would

[57:10] replace the two.

[57:14] And we need to decide

[57:18] whether we're going to

[57:21] keep those that are on the book and start following them,

[57:24] or if we're going to go with the new proposed ordinance

[57:28] and follow that.

[57:32] Question, Dave, does it actually replace, or is it just in addition to?

[57:37] Because the other ones are appendices on bylaws, not an ordinance

[57:41] necessarily.

[57:45] I guess that would depend upon how

[57:48] the action that you took. I would assume that if you were to adopt

[57:52] something new, that part of that motion would be to-

[57:55] To revoke the old ones

[57:57] ...

[57:58] so it would be dependent upon

[58:00] how the

[58:02] action-

[58:07] Mr. President.

[58:09] Yes.

[58:11] In its current state, borough bylaws present Robert's Rule of Order as a governing

[58:14] policy. That document is 170 pages.

[58:18] After spending several hours over the last few days reading the majority of it,

[58:22] I can safely say we are in violation of our own bylaws through countless examples.

[58:26] At this point, it is time we as a council must take one of two paths: either

[58:30] follow Robert's Rule of Order as written and indicated in our

[58:34] bylaws, or create a committee to

[58:36] adapt these rules to our particular needs and amend our

[58:40] bylaws. Items needed to be addressed are, but not limited

[58:44] to, how to be recognized, instances that allow interruption,

[58:48] speaking time limits and procedures to limit or extend

[58:51] decorum, responsibility of the officers to ensure procedures align

[58:55] with definition, out of order and repercussions, debatable and

[58:59] non-debatable items, definitions and explanations,

[59:02] additions and removal of agenda items, bylaws being present at the meeting and

[59:06] followed.

[59:08] Also, any item as directed by council before or during the

[59:11] consideration. I still believe Robert's Rule of Order should be our guiding

[59:15] principle. However, it has become increasingly clear this council is not using the

[59:18] tools from that document appropriately and should outline a more thorough

[59:22] application-based approach as our bylaws.

[59:26] Thank you.

[59:28] I fully agree.

[59:35] So with that, I will make a motion to create a committee

[59:39] and

[59:42] look at creating a new bylaw

[59:44] or an amended one.

[59:46] I'll second that.

[59:49] Okay. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion?

[59:55] Question is, you want to amend this bylaw?

[59:58] Want to amend the... Yeah. Our bylaw that's...

[1:00:01] Well, we can create it and then discuss how we want to move forward with it.

[1:00:05] Yeah, because this one says we follow Robert's Rules of Order.

[1:00:08] Correct.

[1:00:09] And you were talking about the procedures in Robert's Rules of Order.

[1:00:13] Yes.

[1:00:14] So-

[1:00:14] But we can

[1:00:17] curtail it to our specific individual needs.

[1:00:20] We

[1:00:20] either have to follow what it says or create it tailored to our

[1:00:25] specific use.

[1:00:27] Right. Considering the fact that there are things in

[1:00:31] the borough code that prevents us from doing-

[1:00:34] Correct

[1:00:34] ... some of the stuff that's in Robert's Rules of Order.

[1:00:36] Yes. State and local ordinances.

[1:00:38] So what you really want to do is you want to take this and expand upon

[1:00:42] it to lay out the specific-

[1:00:45] Correct

[1:00:45] ... activities.

[1:00:46] Correct.

[1:00:47] That's one option.

[1:00:51] Okay?

[1:00:52] And then there's also rules of procedure for public

[1:00:56] meetings.

[1:00:57] Are you

[1:00:59] saying that you would like to get rid of this one?

[1:01:05] I don't have an answer for that at this time.

[1:01:08] Okay.

[1:01:08] Well,

[1:01:10] if I could interject, you had a motion and a second to create the

[1:01:13] committee to amend the bylaws. Perhaps that would be what that

[1:01:17] committee kind of figures out and brings back as its recommendation.

[1:01:22] Well, at this point, I'm just trying to figure out where that committee is going to

[1:01:25] be going.

[1:01:28] And then

[1:01:30] would that committee also-

[1:01:31] That should be up to the committee to decide, shouldn't it?

[1:01:33] And then we report, we, the committee, as in the council.

[1:01:36] Yeah, but the council would be giving them direction.

[1:01:41] I think we already have.

[1:01:47] Haven't we already given direction?

[1:01:49] No, we're still working on that.

[1:01:53] And we've got the ordinance, so maybe there's something in here, the proposed

[1:01:57] ordinance, that could be added to those other two documents and have the

[1:02:01] committee-

[1:02:03] I'm fine with that

[1:02:03] ... work on a bigger scope,

[1:02:07] using

[1:02:09] two documents that are already in place and one

[1:02:12] that was suggested previously as an

[1:02:16] alternative, but maybe all three could play a role

[1:02:20] in creating the one document that the committee would do.

[1:02:24] Yeah, that's what I was talking about.

[1:02:25] I'm good with that.

[1:02:25] I thought we already mentioned that that's what we, that the committee would do.

[1:02:29] Okay. Any other discussion on this issue?

[1:02:36] Hearing none,

[1:02:38] all in favor of giving it to a committee,

[1:02:41] say aye.

[1:02:43] Aye.

[1:02:44] Opposed?

[1:02:46] It's unanimous, Gil.

[1:02:51] Yeah.

[1:02:51] Now we got to set up the committee.

[1:02:59] Do we have volunteers for the committee?

[1:03:02] I'd like to volunteer.

[1:03:03] I as well.

[1:03:06] I'll volunteer for that also.

[1:03:08] Okay. We're limited to three

[1:03:11] so that we don't have a quorum of council.

[1:03:14] So,

[1:03:16] it'll be Dave,

[1:03:19] Cody,

[1:03:23] and Michael.

[1:03:29] Koleski.

[1:03:29] Yes, Koleski.

[1:03:31] That one.

[1:03:36] All right.

[1:03:37] The other Mike will be busy policing.

[1:03:39] Pickleball.

[1:03:40] Pickleball.

[1:03:40] Yeah.

[1:03:43] No, we want to know where everybody is at all times.

[1:03:47] This group already got two more assignments tonight.

[1:03:52] The next item of business is the youth

[1:03:56] reading program. We've already heard from Emma on that.

[1:04:01] And so

[1:04:04] unless you have something more to say on that, Emma?

[1:04:07] No, I don't think so. Just email me the dates

[1:04:11] that you're willing to volunteer.

[1:04:14] Yeah.

[1:04:15] Okay.

[1:04:17] Next up, parallel parking

[1:04:20] practice area.

[1:04:22] Sarah and I had a little bit of communication about this today as well, and

[1:04:26] I told her earlier today, I'm still working on being able to give an update on

[1:04:30] it.

[1:04:32] The update, this is news to her too, so I apologize that

[1:04:36] it's back to you, but

[1:04:39] the area that we have planned for this

[1:04:43] project

[1:04:44] has

[1:04:46] a third-party impediment parked in it right now, and we're trying to get ahold of

[1:04:50] the company and tell them to get it out of there.

[1:04:54] Once they do that, it won't take us long, but it's been

[1:04:58] there for a month or two, after Brad was kind enough to

[1:05:02] let the tree trimmers park a piece of equipment there.

[1:05:06] So once we get it out of there,

[1:05:09] we can have it up and going on more of a temporary basis pretty

[1:05:12] quickly, and then we can order a little bit more permanent signs for it.

[1:05:15] That's something you can put on Munis a bid, perhaps?

[1:05:20] I think that the chief might have an issue if we try to sell somebody

[1:05:24] else's belongings. But we might be able to move it to the impound yard and start

[1:05:27] charging for it. So-

[1:05:29] Have a hitch

[1:05:30] ... but we're working on it, and

[1:05:33] it's been placed into a schedule, so to speak, now.

[1:05:36] Would you have said that if the chief hadn't have just walked in?

[1:05:39] It just made it fit, yeah.

[1:05:44] All right. Any new business?

[1:05:47] Yeah, I have something I'd like to bring up.

[1:05:48] Okay.

[1:05:49] I want to talk about the fact that this

[1:05:53] meeting was rescheduled from its original date.

[1:05:56] Mm-hmm.

[1:05:58] I know I called you about this, Richard, but I want to just

[1:06:01] make some points here.

[1:06:03] I'm not sure

[1:06:05] why the meeting didn't go on.

[1:06:08] I know that you told me you knew that three people were going to be out.

[1:06:12] You knew that for a fact, but there were still four of us that would've had a

[1:06:16] quorum

[1:06:17] and could've proceeded with the meeting.

[1:06:22] So I'm not sure

[1:06:24] why the meeting was rescheduled. If

[1:06:28] you have some reasons that you could tell me,

[1:06:32] that'd be great. And if that was the only reason, that's fine, but I think it was

[1:06:35] wrong to do that.

[1:06:36] Well, as I told you on the phone,

[1:06:39] that

[1:06:40] if we had one more,

[1:06:44] then

[1:06:45] the advertisement would've,

[1:06:48] the meeting would've had to have been canceled at the last minute,

[1:06:53] and

[1:06:56] we have a cameraman here

[1:06:58] who would've been there.

[1:06:59] Yeah, but we could say that about any meeting.

[1:07:01] Something could happen at the last minute, maybe we knew one or two

[1:07:05] guys weren't going to make it, and then all of a sudden at the last minute, maybe

[1:07:08] another couple guys can't make it.

[1:07:10] They're stuck in traffic, they get in an accident, whatever.

[1:07:13] So we could say that for any meeting

[1:07:15] So what's the big deal on-

[1:07:16] The big deal was this

[1:07:17] ... pushing it?

[1:07:18] The big deal was this, we

[1:07:21] had a quorum, and we could've had the meeting. The second thing for me is...

[1:07:27] And that's the big thing for me, because I feel like we didn't follow the

[1:07:31] rules that are set down.

[1:07:33] The other thing is

[1:07:36] nobody was consulted on the revised date.

[1:07:40] Will that work for you?

[1:07:42] Because I can tell you, tonight did not work for me.

[1:07:45] I

[1:07:47] run a charity, and my

[1:07:49] board meeting for my charity was tonight.

[1:07:51] I had to call all my board members and get them to finagle their schedules

[1:07:56] so we could have our meeting on another night so I could be here.

[1:07:59] So the fact that nobody was even consulted about

[1:08:03] whether they

[1:08:04] could make it to the meeting for a quorum, or if we could not have the

[1:08:08] meeting,

[1:08:09] what day would be convenient for everybody.

[1:08:12] And I just think that that's wrong.

[1:08:16] The rules state that if we have a quorum, we should have the meeting.

[1:08:22] And I'm

[1:08:23] more than happy to listen to everybody's comments,

[1:08:27] if any.

[1:08:31] It's water under the bridge at this time, and

[1:08:35] your opposition to

[1:08:38] having done it is

[1:08:40] noted.

[1:08:41] Okay.

[1:08:43] I would like to add that

[1:08:45] for future planning, that if we make a schedule,

[1:08:50] it's not just about the members of this

[1:08:53] council, it's also about the people of Cairo Valley, especially in the

[1:08:57] summer when vacations are just...

[1:09:00] People are going and coming. And we put out a

[1:09:04] calendar for the whole year, we should be able to count on that.

[1:09:08] And the only reason,

[1:09:11] from my perspective,

[1:09:13] that a borough council meeting should be rescheduled is if it's

[1:09:17] proven that we don't have a quorum, and that simply did not happen.

[1:09:27] Okay.

[1:09:29] So noted.

[1:09:34] Chief?

[1:09:36] I apologize for running a little late.

[1:09:38] I was at the Fairfield meeting, and then we had a couple wanted people,

[1:09:42] got done getting them down.

[1:09:46] A couple things I wanted to bring up to you.

[1:09:47] Obviously, you saw that

[1:09:50] the 4th is going to be our National Night Out, so if you guys want to come, we

[1:09:52] always have a very good turnout for that.

[1:09:54] Kids like coming, and

[1:09:56] all the entities of Adams County. We always get the sheriff's department and

[1:10:00] the planning commission. They all come, and the

[1:10:03] kids have a really good time usually.

[1:10:05] We have stations they go to, so they try to get as

[1:10:09] many as they can. When they do that, they have a chance to win bikes.

[1:10:13] Bikes that are donated. Bike

[1:10:18] Master, I think, donates the bikes to you guys is the one-

[1:10:21] Our charity

[1:10:21] ... we were very grateful for that.

[1:10:24] Another thing I wanted to bring up is our car situation.

[1:10:28] Car number 49, which is the one that has the LPRs, has been going in and out of the

[1:10:32] garage for the past two months with issues with overheating.

[1:10:36] And everything's been covered with

[1:10:40] warranty work, but last week I

[1:10:43] called because I was upset because we still wasn't getting it back, and apparently

[1:10:47] we need a whole new engine. So-

[1:10:50] That's the newest one, correct?

[1:10:51] Yeah, that's the first one we got.

[1:10:54] But it only has 40,000 miles on it.

[1:10:57] Apparently, I found out later that

[1:11:00] something that's not uncommon.

[1:11:03] Got to wonder if they're eventually going to come up with a recall for it, because

[1:11:07] Gettysburg, their three Dodge Durangos, all three of them

[1:11:11] had engine issues. Cumberland's one, I think, had two engines.

[1:11:14] So,

[1:11:15] still been told that it's still the best police car they got out there to offer

[1:11:20] at this point. The reason why I wanted to bring it up to you guys and let you know

[1:11:22] that it happened, obviously, from what I hear, it takes a month to even

[1:11:26] get approval to even put the engine in.

[1:11:29] So it's going to be at least a month, possibly more, for them to eventually put it

[1:11:33] in.

[1:11:35] That being said, with the car that we have, we're going to put up for

[1:11:40] try to get that in running order that we can use in case,

[1:11:44] say, another one blows up. Who knows?

[1:11:46] Who's to say that the other one has the same amount of miles on it?

[1:11:49] So I'm praying that doesn't

[1:11:52] happen. We've had problems from this one from the beginning.

[1:11:54] Jonathan was in training, and he had to get it towed out of there.

[1:11:58] They had to do something. They did a bunch of stuff to the engine.

[1:12:01] But

[1:12:02] we're lucky that aspect of it goes up to 100,000 miles with its warranty.

[1:12:08] It blows my mind after I heard all of it, because I didn't hear anything about any

[1:12:11] of that, and now all of a sudden like, "Oh, yeah, that happens all the time."

[1:12:14] Supposedly, it's just cheaply made with...

[1:12:17] It has the coolant right next to the oil.

[1:12:21] They're both next to each other, and they're plastic, and they break, and then they

[1:12:24] get intertwined, and it goes in the engine and destroys it.

[1:12:27] So you think it would be an easy fix, get better ones aftermarket, and then

[1:12:31] they could do them with all, but that obviously is not the case.

[1:12:34] So I just wanted to give you a heads-up on that.

[1:12:37] Hopefully, it'll be sooner than later.

[1:12:39] They didn't give me any timeline. Like I said, they didn't even call and tell

[1:12:43] me they were doing it. They just, "Oh, yeah, by the way, we need a whole new

[1:12:46] engine."

[1:12:48] So it's in that process. They said they got to tear it all down, take

[1:12:51] pictures, submit it, and that's when...

[1:12:57] But I wanted to give you an update on that.

[1:12:58] I know that they talked about the grant.

[1:13:02] Did you guys talk about that at all? I wanted to just give you a heads-up on that.

[1:13:05] I've been working with our grant writers.

[1:13:07] There was a grant that we could set up for that comes at the end of the year.

[1:13:12] It's approximately $100,000. I broke it up-

[1:13:21] But the first thing I put in for was new

[1:13:25] are kind of outdated.

[1:13:27] About new ones that are out there with technology, about 40

[1:13:33] to run them, so that's part of the grant that we put in for.

[1:13:36] I put in for two more LPRs, so each car would have an LPR in it,

[1:13:40] license plate reader.

[1:13:42] That was about 30

[1:13:45] also put in for

[1:13:48] hollow sights to put on them and stuff like that.

[1:13:50] We're carrying .45s now, but everyone's pretty

[1:13:54] much transitioning to 9 millimeters.

[1:13:55] They've found, I guess, it's more efficient, I guess, at

[1:13:59] this point.

[1:14:01] The ammo's more abundant too, isn't it?

[1:14:03] Yeah. So it's, I think that was eight or nine grand.

[1:14:06] So the total's like, like I said, $99,000.

[1:14:09] And

[1:14:10] our grant writers did a real good job.

[1:14:13] I worked with them days on end, so just giving them the information, what they

[1:14:16] needed, but it's like a 50 page document basically sent over

[1:14:20] and hopefully,

[1:14:22] I feel, I think it's 25 million for the whole state, something like that, and we

[1:14:25] were able to put in up to like 50. So I'm hoping to,

[1:14:30] by the end of the year, to find out

[1:14:32] we're getting some of it. So, they've been really good at writing stuff compared to

[1:14:35] other people.

[1:14:38] So knock on wood we're a little step ahead and hopefully we get some of that money.

[1:14:42] But I just wanted to give everybody those updates.

[1:14:45] Good. Thank you.

[1:14:46] Mm-hmm.

[1:14:54] Any other new business?

[1:14:58] All right, we'll move on to

[1:15:01] open to the public.

[1:15:03] Josh Williams, you had indicated that maybe at the

[1:15:07] end.

[1:15:08] We're pretty much at the end. So I didn't want to be dang horse ten acres

[1:15:12] about military mobile homes. So Josh Williams, 14 Gladys Trail.

[1:15:16] If you guys don't know me, this is me.

[1:15:18] So I just want to remind the residents of Carroll Valley Borough that if you're

[1:15:22] going to cut your grass or have your grass cut by anybody,

[1:15:26] make sure that the grass clipping's removed from the roadway because it

[1:15:30] is a safety issue for motorcyclists and bicyclists.

[1:15:33] It's like driving on ice. Also,

[1:15:37] if your house has a gravel or a dirt driveway

[1:15:41] and there is a heavy rain and you have runoff into the roadway,

[1:15:45] that is your responsibility as the homeowner to remove said

[1:15:49] runoff from the roadway back onto your property for safety

[1:15:53] issues.

[1:15:55] The Skylark Trail, the hiking trail, is getting done.

[1:15:58] Another concern I have is the condition of Skylark.

[1:16:01] That road itself is

[1:16:03] wonky, potholes, not wide enough if we're going to have a trail in there.

[1:16:08] I think it needs to be widened a little bit to the right side as you're going up,

[1:16:12] so that way there'll be room for two vehicles, and if we're going to put parking

[1:16:15] areas on the trail along, as far as I was reading.

[1:16:19] There's going to be different parking areas for trail heads.

[1:16:22] So if you're going to pave parking lots, let's just repave Skylark,

[1:16:26] because that is a main thoroughfare

[1:16:28] up and down that mountain.

[1:16:32] Get a motorcycle for one of your cops.

[1:16:34] It's a lot cheaper to maintain.

[1:16:38] That way you-

[1:16:39] Yeah, but these roads aren't the greatest for them.

[1:16:44] No, no, for the gear. Let's see. That's all I got.

[1:16:45] So gentlemen, ladies, thank you for your time.

[1:16:48] I'd add

[1:16:50] that our crew

[1:16:53] road sweepers

[1:16:55] got a lot of junk to take off the roads all over.

[1:17:00] Know there's going to be some complaints coming from up in the mountains.

[1:17:05] We've already had them.

[1:17:07] Yeah.

[1:17:07] They worked pretty hard to clean up after some rains.

[1:17:11] I wasn't here to witness them, but I understand it was a good bit and-

[1:17:14] Two inches

[1:17:16] ...

[1:17:16] but I think we have some work to do to reach out to some folks,

[1:17:20] especially the ones with the stone driveways and,

[1:17:25] it might be time that we push, because we do have rules that if that happens,

[1:17:29] we can make them pave the apron so it doesn't happen.

[1:17:32] So I'm going to work with Mr. Bean and, Big Beans.

[1:17:37] Bean.

[1:17:37] He has an S?

[1:17:37] Mm-hmm.

[1:17:38] Mr. Beans, and

[1:17:40] talk with him about it, and we might try to identify some of those major

[1:17:44] problem areas that were causing washing onto the roads.

[1:17:47] Yeah, you can go no further than Warren Trail where

[1:17:51] there's construction going on and the gravel

[1:17:55] was coming down the road.

[1:17:57] On a construction site?

[1:18:00] Yes.

[1:18:01] Sorry, my bad, Sarah. I crossed that one out and didn't read the one below it.

[1:18:04] So that was for Phil. I'll work with you, I heard about that construction control.

[1:18:08] The lot across the street from my house on 14 Gladys is a vacant lot,

[1:18:13] and whoever owns that lot has dumped construction

[1:18:16] debris on the lot, just piles of concrete and

[1:18:19] dirt. Is there any ordinance against if somebody

[1:18:23] owns that lot, they can just-

[1:18:25] It's not supposed to be used for fill.

[1:18:29] Not necessarily. I have to look at it before I could give you an answer

[1:18:33] on whether or not it's permitted, because small piles, and

[1:18:37] if it's considered clean fill, it might be okay.

[1:18:40] But we most-

[1:18:41] Like concrete this big

[1:18:41] ... in most cases. Concrete-

[1:18:47] Not anymore?

[1:18:48] I don't know the answer. So, but I'll check it out tomorrow first thing.

[1:18:54] Thanks.

[1:18:55] If I have a second, again, he reminded me of something I forgot to bring up, and I

[1:18:59] know I've been kind of beating this to death for the past two meetings, but

[1:19:03] coming up every week,

[1:19:05] I just want to let everybody know out there again about the e-bikes.

[1:19:10] Been having more issues with them, and I don't know if you guys have seen or not,

[1:19:13] but you were at a kid killed on one. Have to

[1:19:16] be

[1:19:19] , not 16

[1:19:21] . Myself. And I've been doing a pretty good job of

[1:19:25] getting up with most of the kids in the group that have them, and there are a ton

[1:19:28] that have them,

[1:19:30] just to make sure that they're not on the roadway until they're 16.

[1:19:34] On top of that, there's also the fact that

[1:19:37] they've been running some issues with e-bikes as well with their size.

[1:19:41] If it goes over 20 mile an hour and it has the

[1:19:44] 750 watts, it's not legally allowed to be on the

[1:19:48] roadway. The idea of an e-bike, what it's supposed to do is assist

[1:19:52] you on it. It's not supposed to run you up and down the road, which is happening

[1:19:56] some of the times that they're on. So we've been having issues with that, and

[1:20:00] I wanted to let everybody in the public know, just make sure your kids aren't out

[1:20:03] there. I've already warned enough that I told them, I'm like, "Listen, if I have to

[1:20:07] warn you again, I'm going to have to cite you." Kids don't want to be cited.

[1:20:12] They are wearing their helmets and everything else, but it's illegal.

[1:20:15] The vehicles that are on aren't-

[1:20:17] One other thing I wanted to bring up as well is we've been having an issue,

[1:20:22] not even with kids, it's adults, that they have that

[1:20:25] big, round wheel, and it has things on both sides.

[1:20:29] It's not a Segway. That's not what a Segway is.

[1:20:32] It's an electric vehicle, and that's not allowed to be on the roadway.

[1:20:36] Been having

[1:20:38] people that have been going around trying to sell some

[1:20:41] certain things that have been getting permits.

[1:20:42] They're like, "No, you can't have these on the roadway."

[1:20:45] Stop selling these.

[1:20:46] Yeah. They're hoverboards or whatever they're called.

[1:20:49] They're not allowed on the roadway either.

[1:20:51] Make sure

[1:20:52] if you have kids that have them out there, you have them going up and down.

[1:20:56] So Chief, to clarify, on the 750-watt bike,

[1:21:00] it's 749 or under is allowed on the road for anybody?

[1:21:04] Except for 16. You have to be 16 years old.

[1:21:07] So over 16, they can have whatever size e-bike they want.

[1:21:09] No. That 750 is the bike period. What it says, the

[1:21:13] actual thing it says is it can't weigh over 100 pounds.

[1:21:16] So I guess there's ones that have more batteries to them or bigger tires.

[1:21:20] I don't know what that aspect of it is, but it says the motor can't be rated more

[1:21:24] than 750 watts, which is one brake horse.

[1:21:28] And

[1:21:29] what that, it goes with-- So if you go back to on the Facebook

[1:21:33] thing, it breaks each thing down. So it says minimum age, which is 16, and

[1:21:37] that's kind of covered under our vehicle code,

[1:21:40] that's when they decided that it was

[1:21:43] 750, the e-bike. So that's what covers it, saying

[1:21:46] unless you're 16. Not saying you need a license.

[1:21:51] And then it talks about no license, no registration, stuff

[1:21:55] like that, because technically it's supposed to be a bike.

[1:21:58] It's just, it's to assist you to go up and down hills and everything else.

[1:22:02] When it says 20 miles an hour,

[1:22:04] you got to remember that as well, that only means going straight.

[1:22:06] So if you're going down a hill and you're going a lot of fast, everybody can

[1:22:11] go. So we're not looking to ding anybody for that, but the main thing is it

[1:22:15] can only go 20 mile an hour, and it can't be over 750.

[1:22:19] We've had a couple already

[1:22:21] that of the

[1:22:22] capacity,

[1:22:24] not

[1:22:25] using what they're supposed to be.

[1:22:27] They can be registered under a motorized pedicle,

[1:22:31] which they have the electric power used, but that

[1:22:35] one actually has to be registered through the state.

[1:22:37] And

[1:22:38] when you register it, obviously you're going to have everything else.

[1:22:41] Those are still-

[1:22:41] You got to get a motorcycle? Is that a motorcycle endorsement as well?

[1:22:45] No.

[1:22:46] Just Class C, that's normal. But like I said, then that goes only

[1:22:50] up to 25, so there's so many stipulations with the stuff.

[1:22:53] If you have any questions, go to my Facebook page.

[1:22:56] Each one of these things is spelled out completely on it.

[1:22:59] It tells you how much power it has, how fast it's allowed to go, and

[1:23:02] everything. What the brake power, the horsepower of the thing is.

[1:23:06] So

[1:23:07] everybody can get informed with it, and like I said, we don't need

[1:23:11] something like York. We don't want some kid getting run over because they're out in

[1:23:14] the roadway.

[1:23:16] That's my main concern, kids obviously

[1:23:20] getting run over, because our roads

[1:23:24] aren't the biggest by any means. They're big roads and everything else- ...

[1:23:26] but it'd just be easier, just make sure the kids aren't out there on them.

[1:23:30] So I'm hoping that the parents seeing this just know.

[1:23:33] And some of them just think, "Hey, they're just riding down the street." Most

[1:23:37] accidents happen within two miles of your house in the first place.

[1:23:40] Out in the roadway with it, that's where it's going to happen.

[1:23:43] I just want to bring it back up. I know I've been killing it to death, but it

[1:23:47] doesn't seem to want to leave.

[1:23:51] Thank you.

[1:23:52] Thank you, Chief.

[1:23:55] Do we have a motion to adjourn? Motion to adjourn.

[1:23:57] Seconded.

[1:23:59] All in favor say aye. Aye.

[1:24:00] Aye.

[1:24:01] Unanimous, Gail.

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Carroll Valley Borough Council Meeting - 07/28/2026

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