[0:00] Thank you. We want to welcome everybody to this uh special city council meeting

[0:04] being held here on August 25th, 2026, 6 pm at Centerville City Hall. This is why

[0:12] this is a special meeting is uh it's what we call a truth and taxation

[0:17] meeting and law requires that all that we can discuss in this meeting is just

[0:24] the truth and taxation issue. uh we don't discuss anything else and it

[0:29] has to be on a [snorts] separate night from our regular council meetings. Our

[0:34] regular council meetings are held the first and third Tuesday. So this has to

[0:38] be separate from that meeting. So we welcome those uh the public that are

[0:43] here by in person or online. We welcome staff that's here and

[0:48] thank council that's here. Uh let's do a roll call of council to make sure that

[0:55] uh we can take any action tonight. Starting here on my far left.

[1:00] » Mikum present. >> Bangader present.

[1:03] » Hurst present. >> Plumber present.

[1:06] » Heman present. >> Thank you. Uh we have four in person,

[1:12] one online. Uh so we have all five council members.

[1:16] Uh so we can uh proceed with our business. Like I said, this is uh this

[1:22] is a public hearing matter. So that means that we have an opportunity to uh

[1:27] hear from the public as well too on this. Uh this is a truth and taxation uh

[1:34] in re in uh regards to a potential property tax

[1:39] increase and finalizing the 2027 final budget. Now, our budgets

[1:46] in the city, we're on a uh fiscal year. That means we run from uh July 1st to

[1:52] June 30th on our budget. So, this will be we'll be setting the budget for

[1:57] actually uh

[2:01] the the budget period that started just under two months ago, but state law

[2:05] allows us to do that. And uh with this truth in taxation, we obviously can't

[2:11] finalize the budget till we um uh do the truth in taxation. So many of you that

[2:18] are here are probably have some handouts. Um

[2:22] uh we're going to call um our finance director up. I think he has a

[2:28] presentation that he wants to present while he's coming up. uh he'll be

[2:33] discussing to you uh why this truth in taxation uh um the

[2:42] the amount that we're looking to potentially collect uh if if if property

[2:47] taxes change uh the fiscal year 2027 budget certified tax rates and all of

[2:54] that that fun stuff. Just the kind of stuff that you like to dream about when

[2:58] you go to bed at night. So, uh, if Nate, if you would, uh, give us a little

[3:03] overview and I'm sure that the council members will have things to add as well

[3:07] too before we go to the public hearing parts. So, thank you.

[3:11] » Yeah. Thank you, mayor. Good evening. Um, as you mentioned, uh, tonight we

[3:16] have before you two resolutions, one to set the, uh, final tax rate for the city

[3:22] and one to adopt our fiscal year 27 budget. Um, state code requires that

[3:28] both of these be set uh prior to September 1st.

[3:33] Okay. So, back in uh June, we received our uh the certified tax rate from the

[3:40] county auditor. Uh along with that, the certified property tax revenue. Uh so,

[3:46] the certified rate uh for 2026 was 0.1137

[3:51] and that would give us about 2.3 million in revenue. And then we're proposing to

[3:55] increase that uh by about 15%. So the new rate would be 0001314

[4:01] and would provide about 2.7 million worth of property tax revenue, an

[4:06] additional increase of the $369,13. Um and we will uh

[4:14] get into the reasons why. Um but first I wanted to start with the the property

[4:18] tax improperty tax impact statement. Um, this was adopted by uh council back in I

[4:26] believe May and then we revised one either later in May or start of June. I

[4:30] can't remember which. Um, so the the most recently adopted uh property tax

[4:36] impact statement is available online as well as a printed copy on this table by

[4:40] the door uh for anybody that would like one. Uh and on that uh table is also the

[4:47] county combined ad and the city ad uh for our for our hearing tonight. Um so

[4:53] again, we'll these are the items that make up uh the uh reasoning for the tax

[5:00] increase. Uh if you remember our original discussions, uh we thought we

[5:05] would do a tax increase for the new officer, the fire assessment increase,

[5:09] and then we talked about doing a general 3% inflationary increase. Um since the

[5:15] public is in prior hearings asked us to increase incrementally and off for years

[5:21] and doing a big increase. Um and then the state law changed this year that we

[5:25] need to specify specific reasons. Um, and so this is the reason that was voted

[5:30] on by council. Uh, so this is what is on the property tax impact schedule. And

[5:35] we'll get into this a little bit more, but first I want to talk about, uh, how

[5:39] property taxes work in Utah. Um, so the first thing, uh, this pie chart

[5:44] represents your total property tax bill. Uh, so all the different, uh, pieces are

[5:52] the different taxing entities that make up your property tax bill. Uh it's

[5:56] important to note that when we talk about the increase of the 15% tonight,

[6:01] we are only talking about the Centerville City portion. So we're not

[6:05] talking about your entire say $3,000 bill. We're talking about the $350

[6:10] portion of that that is uh Centerville's tax rate.

[6:17] All right. So in Utah, property taxes are revenue based. Uh this means that

[6:23] they're based on the actual amount of dollars that we collected the prior

[6:26] year. So state law says that the city can only receive the same dollar amount

[6:31] in property taxes as it received the prior year unless uh one of two things

[6:36] happen. The first is that we get new growth, new development within the city.

[6:40] Uh and the second way to get new more property tax revenue is to go through

[6:44] the truth and taxation process and increase the rate. And that's what we're

[6:48] doing tonight. uh for 2026 we got our new growth figures from the county and

[6:53] that was that $37,000. Um and the reason we can get new growth

[6:57] without going through the hearing is because when you think about it as the

[7:01] city develops that means that our service needs have increased. We have

[7:05] more roads to maintain, more roads to plow, more police services necessary

[7:09] etc. Um so that's why we get that new growth figure.

[7:15] Okay. So to calculate your property tax bill, uh you simply take the taxable

[7:20] value of your property and multiply it by the tax rate and this will give you

[7:24] the amount of property taxes that you owe. The tax rate is the same for all

[7:29] properties throughout the city, but the taxable value can fluctuate.

[7:34] Uh and that depends on whether you're a residential property or a commercial

[7:39] property. Okay. So each year the county performs

[7:44] an assessment and assigns a value to your property. This is called the market

[7:48] value. So in Centerville, the average home's market value is $610,000 this

[7:54] year. Uh the taxable value is the value at which your property is taxed. As I

[7:59] just mentioned, primary residents are given a 45% discounts. Other properties

[8:05] uh their taxable value and their market value are the same.

[8:09] Uh then we have the certified tax rate. So this is the rate at which your

[8:14] property is taxed as calculated by the county. Um and I like this uh image of

[8:21] the seessaw and the teeter totter. Um because as the city's property tax

[8:27] values increase, your tax rate will decrease, but the the amount of property

[8:32] tax revenue that the city gets remains the same. Um and the opposite would be

[8:37] true if property values decrease then our tax rate would naturally increase

[8:41] but the city would receive the same amount with the exception of new growth

[8:45] or if we go through this process of truth and taxation. Uh so that's an

[8:49] important part to remember as we look at this.

[8:53] Uh so this is this chart shows the history of centerville's uh tax rate. Um

[8:59] and you can see that that in most cases well in all cases as property values

[9:04] have increased the tax rate decreased uh with the exceptions of when we went

[9:08] through truth and taxation and those are those years that are uh called out

[9:13] there. Um so you can see at the end where our tax rate would be without this

[9:18] tax increase and then that red line on the right hand side shows uh what it

[9:23] would look like if uh adopted tonight.

[9:28] Okay, here is a uh comparison of other uh property tax rates. Again, these are

[9:34] the certified tax rates. Um any of the cities that have uh the star next to

[9:40] them, those are cities that are going through the truth and taxation process,

[9:45] I have not kept up with them. Um so I don't know how they ended up, how they

[9:50] voted. Um but this gives you a comparison.

[9:56] Uh I always give the caveat when we look at this that every city's financial

[10:01] needs are different and every city's revenue base is different than ours. Um

[10:08] some cities like Fruit Heights have almost no sales tax generators. Um,

[10:15] other cities have a power uh

[10:19] a power fund that can help subsidize the general fund or other

[10:25] sources of revenue. So, each city is comprised differently. Um, but I do

[10:30] think this gives us a, you know, a general idea of how we fall in line with

[10:34] other cities in the in the county.

[10:39] Okay. Okay, so now I want to get into some uh commonly asked questions about

[10:43] property tax. Um so the first one, are property taxes affected by inflation? Um

[10:50] or more specifically, is your property tax bill affected by inflation? And the

[10:54] answer is no. Again, to adjust the property taxes, we have to go through

[10:58] this uh truth and taxation. Um, and this is part of the struggle of this when

[11:05] you're trying to fund a city is that while we don't get more property tax

[11:10] revenue as uh inflation occurs and costs rise, we

[11:15] still have our costs to provide the service still continues to rise. So

[11:21] again, just like everybody else, we get a need uh of increased cost to us to

[11:27] provide the same level of service. Um but we don't automatically get extra

[11:32] revenue based on inflation.

[11:37] Okay. Um so frequently we get the question of um if the city hasn't raised

[11:43] property taxes in the last couple years, how come my property tax bill has gone

[11:49] up? Uh and there can be two possible reasons for this. Uh the first is that

[11:54] another entity that we saw in that pie chart has increased taxes. Um, and if

[11:58] they've gone through the truth and taxation process and raised their rate,

[12:01] then your overall bill will increase. Um, and then the other possible scenario

[12:06] is that your property has increased in value at a quicker rate than other

[12:10] properties in the city. So remember, as the property values as a whole for the

[12:16] city increase, the tax rate decreases for the city. However, as each

[12:22] as your property may uh appreciate or depreciate differently than your

[12:27] neighbors, um that could cause you and your neighbors uh tax bill to adjust

[12:33] slightly. And I know that can be really confusing. Um so we've tried to

[12:38] illustrate it here. Uh so in this example, you'll see um a city

[12:45] with a total taxable value of 1.2 million. Uh, and so we get that by

[12:50] adding up all of the values of each of the houses. And that's what you can see

[12:53] underneath each of the houses. That's their individual value. Uh, so the city

[12:57] in this scenario collects $1,500 in taxes. And so to get the tax rate, you

[13:02] just take the $1,500 that the city receives, divide it by the total taxable

[13:06] value, the 1.2 million, and then that gives you your tax rate with the 000125.

[13:12] And then there in blue, uh, is the amount of property taxes that each of

[13:16] these homes would pay. So that's year one. Then we go to year

[13:21] two and the county performs another assessment and assigns the new uh value

[13:27] to your home. So we have the same city, but you'll notice that the total taxable

[13:32] value went from the 1.2 million up to the 1.65 million, but the city still

[13:37] continues to collect that same $1,500, which means our tax rate decreases to

[13:42] the 0.0091. So you can see in the blue the new

[13:48] property tax bill of each home and then in red we'll show the difference from

[13:54] year one to year two. So you'll see that first house even though the city didn't

[13:58] increase taxes because their home appreciated at a different rate than the

[14:01] city. Theirs actually went up $40 on their individual bill but house number

[14:06] three and four had a decrease of $28 and the 2250. Uh so I know that can be

[14:12] really confusing. If you have questions, I'm happy to break it down further. Um,

[14:17] but those are just some reasons why your tax bill may fluctuate year-toear even

[14:20] when the city doesn't go through the truth and taxation process.

[14:26] Okay, so now looking at our um situation tonight, um how will it affect the

[14:34] average resident? So the average resident has a market value of their

[14:38] home of 610,000 and again remember a residential

[14:41] property gets a 45% discount. So their taxable value is at $335,500.

[14:49] Um so using the certified tax rate that the county gave us, uh the average

[14:54] residential home would pay $381 in Centerville City property taxes. Um as

[14:59] we've talked about tonight, we have a proposed increase of the 15.61% 61%

[15:04] which would mean if adopted the average home would pay $440.85

[15:09] which is an increase about $59 a year or less than $5 a month.

[15:14] Um for businesses they pay or non primary residential uh properties uh

[15:20] they do not get the discount. Uh the county has told us that the average

[15:24] commercial value in Centerville is the 1,775,000.

[15:30] Um, so without this tax or, you know, using the certified tax rate, they would

[15:35] pay uh $2,18 and then with the proposed increase,

[15:41] they would then pay two $2,332 uh which is an increase of about $314 a

[15:48] year or about $26 a month for the average commercial property.

[15:54] Okay. So, looking at our uh current financial situation,

[15:59] uh looking at our governmental funds, uh we are heavily using our fund balance,

[16:05] um which you will frequently hear referred to as our rainy day fund. Um so

[16:13] as we compiled the budget um again we've been working on this since January

[16:18] um internally as staff and then we first

[16:22] presented it in our budget workshop uh to the city council uh at the end of

[16:28] March in our budget retreat. Um and we've been refining it ever since then.

[16:34] Uh so this is a big project. Um, but at the end of the day, we still had a

[16:38] budget shortfall of about $1.5 million. Um, and so in our capital projects fund,

[16:44] you'll see that we're using about $1.1 million

[16:48] uh to complete our projects and to balance this budget. Um, now while every

[16:53] year we do use some uh fund balance from our capital projects fund, uh that's to

[16:59] be expected almost every year. Um but using it to this degree is certainly not

[17:04] sustainable uh long term. So that's the concern that we have.

[17:12] Um now we talk about service levels a lot. Um

[17:19] so as I was preparing this and thinking how do we you know explain service

[17:23] levels, I typed it into Google and the Google AI spit out this definition that

[17:29] uh I liked. Uh so it says service levels in local government define the quality,

[17:33] scope and performance of public infrastructure and programs delivered to

[17:37] communities. They balance community expectations with available budgets,

[17:41] staff capacity, and technical standards. So this balancing part is the

[17:47] challenging part. That's why we're here tonight. Uh that's why we've been

[17:50] working on this since January is trying to balance,

[17:55] you know, what is the quality of life that our residents expect and how do we

[18:00] provide that standard of living with our current resources. And it's not an easy

[18:04] answer because everybody has a different opinion of how to get there. And that's

[18:09] um why we as staff and council spend so much time uh working on this budget uh

[18:15] to try to find that appropriate balance. Um,

[18:20] so as I was thinking about the, you know, the average residential household

[18:23] will pay if adopted $440 this year in Centerville city property taxes.

[18:29] Um, so I thought about what benefits do our residents get for paying that $440.

[18:36] Um, again, this is some of my opinion here, but uh, for that $440, you get

[18:45] public safety responding to your call in a matter of minutes. And actually, if

[18:49] this, uh, tax increase is adopted, we'll be able to hire an additional officer.

[18:54] So, it actually increases that level of service. Uh, you get roads that are

[18:59] well-maintained and very drivable in any type of vehicle. You get very

[19:04] well-maintained sidewalks. Uh no matter where you live in the city, you can get

[19:08] a park within walking distance of your home. Uh or if you want to go to a

[19:12] different park, you can again drive there on those well-maintained roads

[19:16] within a 10-minute drive. Uh you get use of a amenities like pickle ball courts,

[19:22] tennis courts, basketball courts, playground equipments, walking and bike

[19:26] biking paths, and even restrooms at most of those facilities. Uh you get events

[19:32] like we just had at the 4th of July. You get movies in the park, uh the Christmas

[19:37] light ceremony, uh the fall festival, the other events that the Whitaker

[19:41] Museum puts on. And then with recreating, you get the hiking and

[19:45] biking and off-road trails, and the list goes on. And you get all of this for

[19:49] $440 uh in property tax. Um,

[19:56] [snorts] now looking at this again, uh, some of these I would argue are

[20:01] essential services like public safety and roads. Some of these certainly

[20:06] aren't essential, um, like our events or even parks are certainly not essential

[20:11] to government. However, I believe they do provide a significant benefit to the

[20:16] community. Um, I know I went to the Fourth of July celebration and enjoyed

[20:21] the fireworks and I went to the parade and [clears throat] saw the, you know,

[20:25] 10 20,000 people enjoying that. Uh, now is that an essential cost us

[20:31] 70,000? Is that essential? No, absolutely not. But do I think it

[20:35] provided an excellent community benefit? Absolutely. So, as we look at this

[20:40] budget, this again going back to this service level, this is what we're trying

[20:44] to balance is the quality of life that our residents

[20:49] want. Um, so as we think about trying to balance this budget, what are you asking

[20:55] rhetorically, what are you willing to give up? Um,

[20:59] we're trying to do everything we can with uh [clears throat] the resources

[21:03] that we have and I think we have a really good team here at Centerville

[21:08] between [clears throat] staff and elected officials that were able to come

[21:10] to this balance. Um, so anyway, there's my there's my soap box for the night.

[21:16] Um, but I do think we get a pretty good value for uh the amount of taxes that we

[21:22] pay. Okay, so looking at this uh additional

[21:27] property tax revenue um again it's about 369,000.

[21:32] How will this be used? Uh these are the items that we listed in our property tax

[21:36] impact statement. Uh so the first is the medical insurance increases for our

[21:41] employees. This continues to rise every year. Um,

[21:47] so this was uh about $83,41 worth uh was part of our reason for

[21:52] increasing this uh for this property tax increase. The second item is the new

[21:59] police officer position. Uh, and this $250,000 for that would include

[22:05] uh the wages for a new officer and all the benefits uh plus the patrol vehicle

[22:10] and all the associated costs like equipment and fuel, maintenance,

[22:14] training, all of that. Uh, and this would help uh increase that service

[22:20] level for the police department and their overall response capacity. And

[22:24] then the final part is the assessment that we get from South Davis Fire. Um we

[22:32] pay a total of what was it 1.2 millionish to the fire district. Uh they

[22:38] have increased our rate uh that we have to pay to them by that $35,72

[22:44] this year. Uh so that is the last part that makes up our uh reasoning for the

[22:49] increase.

[22:52] Okay. Okay. And then again, this uh public hearing tonight and the

[22:56] resolution before you is also for the final budget. Um back in uh June, we had

[23:03] to adopt the interim budget which was part of the new state laws this year. Um

[23:08] so again, we've talked about our budget in length at various meetings. Uh, so I

[23:13] won't go into all the details of the budget here, but just kind of hit the

[23:16] highlights that we've projected our sales tax revenue to increase by about

[23:20] 2% going from 5.5 million to 5.6 million. Um, again, this budget does

[23:26] include the property tax increase of 15.61%.

[23:30] Uh, in our sanitation fund, we had the fee increase, $1 per garbage can that

[23:36] was adopted back in June. Um and then this also includes using fund balance in

[23:42] our capital projects fund our transportation fund, sanitation fund and

[23:46] drainage fund uh to complete some of those capital projects. And then uh

[23:51] finally we have the inner fund loan from our capital projects fund to our water

[23:56] fund uh in in the amount of uh up to 2.4 million. Um, since the interim budget

[24:06] was adopted back in June, uh, we haven't really had any changes. The only changes

[24:10] that you'll see on the final budget are related to the property tax. So, when

[24:14] the interim budget was adopted, we hadn't received the certified tax rate

[24:19] from the county. Um, so now that we have the certified tax rate, uh, we've

[24:24] updated that line to include our new growth. And then the other thing that

[24:30] changed with property tax is that for the interim budget, the new state code

[24:34] required that we put the additional tax revenue in a restricted account. Um, for

[24:41] the final budget, since we'll have an adopted uh tax rate, I've combined that

[24:46] into just a single property tax revenue line. So, you won't see that additional

[24:50] restricted account anymore. Um and then because of that new growth, the

[24:56] amount that we transferred to our capital projects fund has increased uh

[25:00] by that same $37,000 equal to our new growth.

[25:07] Okay. So again, our staff's recommendation uh is to adopt uh the

[25:12] resolution setting the real personal property tax rate at 0001314 for the

[25:18] general fund and adopt the other resolution adopting the final budget. Um

[25:24] and just a quick note to remind you about our public hearing. We've had a

[25:28] couple changes in state legislature this year um that says we must allow

[25:33] everybody that wants to comment a reasonable time for comment. Um so I

[25:37] think our our typical 3 minutes uh satisfies that. And then we must allow

[25:43] uh virtual comments. Um so I know Jennifer is watching the Zoom. Um so if

[25:48] anybody wants to comment online, they're able to. I think we're just going to ask

[25:51] them to use the raise your hand function. Uh so we're not interrupting

[25:54] each other. And then um we also had to allow written comments to be submitted

[26:01] up until the end of the hearing and that's all been posted on our website

[26:05] with instructions on how to do that. Um so anyway, that's all I have prepared

[26:10] for you tonight, mayor. Are there any questions I can answer? So I want to

[26:14] point out a couple things. First off, about your third or fourth chart, uh the

[26:18] certified tax rate, um uh there it is right there. that for the

[26:25] most part just for the people that are here for their knowledge to make it

[26:29] clear that uh you see those uh years that it's declining

[26:35] that's because uh probably property values have gone up right

[26:41] » correct >> because uh in Utah and there's a few

[26:44] other states like this I don't know how many your uh your property taxes will

[26:50] stay the same other than what Nate showed those rare situations conditions

[26:54] s um even if your property goes up or your property goes down that rate will

[26:59] adjust. So the only way that your tax can be changed um by us or any of that

[27:05] pie chart that uh he he showed the county, the school district, the sewer,

[27:11] whatever is through a truth in taxation like this where you you increase the

[27:18] rate. So um um as your property goes up, that rate's going down. So, your taxes

[27:23] are staying the same unless you have the certified tax rate increase. The other

[27:28] thing I wanted to point out, and Nate didn't cover this because it's not

[27:32] really part of the the it is part of the meeting, but not part of his

[27:35] presentation. Uh I just want to point out for those of you that haven't looked

[27:39] at the budget, uh our budget for our city is not completely funded by

[27:46] property taxes. We have a just under a $14 million budget. Uh and of that 2.7

[27:55] million is property taxes. Obviously 5.6 billion is uh sales taxes. That's the

[28:02] biggest one. Then you have you have building license fees. You have uh uh

[28:09] franchise tax, that sort of thing. Um, and uh, I also want to point out that a

[28:15] lot of the what you see going on and around the city right now, we do our

[28:20] best to make sure we get grants wherever possible. That the construction on Main

[28:25] Street, the construction on 400 East, we had pipes that were council approved

[28:29] early in the year to do those projects and uh, um, a lot quite a bit of that

[28:36] money comes from uh, grants we apply to as well too. But obviously some comes

[28:42] from this and also improvements you see like pickle ball courts that went in uh

[28:49] mo quite a bit of that was done through grants and then through the wrap tax

[28:54] which the vote v voters approved years ago and they re uh they approved again

[28:59] last year. So that stands for recreation and parks. So, uh there's money that

[29:04] that goes to that for um uh that that type of purpose. So, I just wanted to to

[29:11] bring that out um to you. Um one thing we didn't discuss is uh well, no, we did

[29:19] discuss it, but did you go over of how much we're proposing

[29:25] uh is proposed on the truth and taxation? Did you discuss the new

[29:29] property tax impact schedule that the legislature requires us to do? I don't

[29:34] know if that that's new for all of us. Uh that was a an exercise that we had to

[29:39] all go through new. Now there it is right there. So we had the legislature

[29:45] played around with all sorts of bills with property tax. Uh, one thing they

[29:49] settled on was in this truth in taxation that we had to do these property tax

[29:54] impact schedules. Even though there's could be increases in not could be,

[30:00] there is uh increases in uh other areas as well too. We're required to pinpoint

[30:06] areas of what the why the proposed property tax increase and where that

[30:13] would go to. You could look at our budget uh uh and I'm I'm not necessarily

[30:19] a big fan of this because uh of of of what legislature passed, but they were

[30:24] doing their best because you could you could put a number of items here that

[30:27] make up that 370,000. But uh our property tax impact schedule,

[30:34] that's what it shows that uh this increase would go to 250,000 for

[30:40] police and a new officer. That's that's just not the officer. That's that's a

[30:45] vehicle that goes along with it, equipment, all that sort of thing. Uh

[30:49] $35,72 to the fire assessment [snorts]

[30:52] increase. And then uh medical insurance coverage uh for all the employees that

[30:58] that's gone up and those total the almost 370,000. So that's what we have

[31:04] pinpointed uh that the uses for. So um of where

[31:10] these these funds would go to. So, um, other questions for Nate or

[31:15] clarification that, uh, council wants to make or

[31:20] staff wants to make.

[31:27] Nothing. Okay. Um

[31:33] I do uh so I guess at this point in time if there there's no further questions

[31:40] uh I guess we could go to the public hearing part and hear uh from the public

[31:46] that's it's your your opportunity to hear from you. Um and then uh we will u

[31:55] uh re we'll take notes and we'll try to respond to your comments as as well as

[32:01] we can uh and then we'll come back to have uh further discussion after that as

[32:06] well too. So like I said this is a public hearing matter truth and taxation

[32:10] property tax increase and fiscal year 2027 final budget. So uh that public

[32:18] hearing is now open. All we ask is that you you state your name and where you're

[32:24] from for the record of the >> And also, mayor, really quick, for those

[32:29] on Zoom, if you'd like to comment, use the raise your hand feature on Zoom. So,

[32:34] and then we'll call on you when we're ready. So, those that are on Zoom, I

[32:38] don't know if you heard our recorder, Jennifer, but raise you do use the raise

[32:42] your hand feature on Zoom, and I will have her look at uh uh those to to get

[32:50] you as well, too. But, we're going to open it up first to those members of the

[32:54] public that are here. So, that public hearing is now open.

[33:02] » I'll be the guinea pig.

[33:06] Good evening. My name is Doug Hansy. My wife and Judy and I live at one

[33:10] residents of Centerville for the last 51 years. We live at 112 East Jennings

[33:15] Lane. I'm 75 years old. I still work full-time. I own a technology business

[33:20] that works with very large corporations and medium-sized businesses. And I have

[33:24] customers in four major business segments. And I work with people from

[33:28] the sea level down to line workers. My reason to being here is that is a a

[33:33] massive frustration with property tax increases here and in the county and

[33:38] it's the as a way of using to resolve budget uh needs and manage increasing

[33:46] costs. My frustration should be echo with each of you who purchased a home

[33:51] and as inflation drove up the value four to five times what you paid for that

[33:56] home. uh it becomes a little aggravating. California used Prop 13 to

[34:02] protect people with from drastic value increases that froze property tax

[34:07] realistically to to the purchase price, not the appraisal price. I'm not a fan

[34:13] of California government and consider one of the very few redeeming successes

[34:18] of that state. Judy and I live in a home with a two-car garage we built in 1988,

[34:24] which today would be absolutely impossible for us to afford to purchase.

[34:29] Here is my harsh reality. I'm trying to retire uh and your property tax increase

[34:35] added to the Davis County uh increase are more money there. That is more money

[34:41] than I will make in retirement per month. Think about that for a moment.

[34:47] the property tax is now going to be higher than my income per month. Uh your

[34:53] t your truth and tax packet is very re revealing on page 94. Centerville has

[34:59] had four tax increases since in the in the years 2017 through 2026. Four tax

[35:07] increases for property tax. people at the at this rate center for leadership

[35:13] is likely to continue increasing taxes every two and a half years. I said I

[35:17] work with ma major medium to large companies in Utah and surrounding states

[35:22] for for-profit businesses cannot spend money like a municipality does. They

[35:28] have to make a profit which means working with equipment they have to

[35:32] produce to use to make their products. For example, I have three customers. One

[35:38] customer alone has 600 600 barcode printers to which they produce.

[35:45] It's in an automotive b business. Uh they these printers are aged from 6 to

[35:50] 18 years but yet they run those printers continue to use those even though

[35:55] they've been end of life and end of service life because they still uh

[35:59] process the product properly. They don't run out and replace it just because a

[36:04] new one is on the horizon. You can't make a profit when you do things like

[36:08] that. You're all aware of the public works garage door openers issue. I'm I

[36:14] have uh I had asked um Councilman Bangader and I I pushed him into a

[36:20] corner and said, "Tell me about what's going on." I was dis I was dismayed when

[36:24] I understood that the public works garage door opener that you had one that

[36:28] failed and because of a supply chain problem, you couldn't get the door open.

[36:32] So, uh, all of a sudden we decide we have to replace 10 door openers. 10 door

[36:38] openers we have to replace. In business, we buy a spare unit. We put it on the

[36:42] shelf. When it breaks, we fix it and then we order a spare replacement.

[36:46] That's how we make a profit in business. Uh, in if we were to solve problems any

[36:53] other differently, we wouldn't make money. It's the mentality it takes to be

[36:57] profitable, not running to replace something just because it's aging. I

[37:01] drive a 2017 Toyota Camry with 262,000 miles on it. I run to Sacramento for

[37:08] business. I don't even think about roadworthiness. I get in the car and I

[37:12] go. Why is it necessary in in our in our community that we need to replace

[37:18] vehicles so frequently every 3 years or so? Consider the mileage. Consider the

[37:23] replacement cost. Consider I'm talking about budget items, not just the

[37:28] property tax. people with respect. I encourage that youth to think about

[37:32] running a municipality more should be more like running a business. Employee

[37:36] employees should be paid a cola increase like social security does. Even an

[37:42] increase near inflation is considered reasonable. But high wage employees in

[37:47] the city should never ever receive wage in price wage percentage increases

[37:53] higher than the lowest employee does. Finally, property tax is not a solution

[37:59] to your budget problems. And why um Centerville hosts major big box stores

[38:06] which bring a lot of out of town. In fact, when I go into the into a big box

[38:10] here, I don't see anybody from our community and I get around a little bit.

[38:14] And uh I go I look at that the source of revenue coming in there. People do not

[38:19] stop shopping because the sales tax goes up a little bit. I'd like you to go back

[38:24] and consider the budget. I'm not asking about that items that were shown up here

[38:29] for the property tax increase because I I I think that you need to go back and

[38:34] look at wants versus barebone needs in your budget, your overall budget. Uh

[38:40] again, with the exception of the public safety need like in the business world,

[38:45] every employee of the city should consider how I how I improve my work

[38:48] ethic with tools that I have. Most companies that I work with, major

[38:52] companies have incentives for their employees where they if they come up

[38:55] with a an inre increase in their performance, they get rewarded for it.

[39:00] Uh that's how we succeed in business. Please let's recognize the importance of

[39:06] this property tax thing. There are a lot of families in this community who bought

[39:10] a house in the 40s, the 50s, and the 60s, who paid for that house, who worked

[39:15] their heart out, and who never had a decent income their entire life. And now

[39:19] we're rent now we are un ashamedly in the in the in Davis County the state of

[39:25] Utah and in the city charging them a property tax rate on something that is

[39:29] out so outside of the their income capability

[39:35] to support the property taxes. Ladies and gentlemen, I respectfully ask

[39:39] you to do not approve this property tax increase. I think you need to go back to

[39:43] your budget and figure out how you find a way to re to cover those things that

[39:48] you want to do. Lastly, I encourage you that you listen to people in the town.

[39:53] Sincerely listen to the people in the town and not just the wellto-do

[39:58] constituents or something that you think that you like or that you would want to

[40:02] listen to those people. If they have different points of view, you might

[40:06] learn something from them. Thank you for for your for your consideration and I

[40:10] respectfully sign off. Thank you. [applause]

[40:20] » Is there others that would like to comment?

[40:28] My name is Craig Preston. I live in Centerville. I can't pass up the

[40:31] opportunity to come before you. I see come around frequently. I just want to

[40:36] give you perspective of where I'm coming from and my people

[40:41] of my similar situation. Um, I've lived here in Centerville this time

[40:48] for the past five years. And I don't know what you call it, but my property

[40:52] taxes have gone up. I'm almost 33% in those five years. And this happens in a

[40:58] couple of ways. One is, yeah, you talk about this these things. You got the

[41:03] mosquito district this year going up 15%. You got South DA sewer going up.

[41:07] You got the fire district going up 16%. Centerville city is asking for 15% more.

[41:13] But then you also have new entities that are now taxing entities. It's not

[41:21] the city, but it's the overall impact on me and and the city people and the the

[41:27] people who own property. That's what's make my property taxes, I'm sure, go up.

[41:31] I haven't gone back and looked at it, but it has gone up 33%. I lived at the

[41:35] same house. U yeah, the county raises the level and I have questions about

[41:40] that and we have little discussions every once in a while with them. We need

[41:44] to understand that um I'm on a fixed income with social security. I get

[41:49] probably an average of two to 5% a year and out of that Medicare goes up about

[41:55] 3%. So the net impact on me is about a 2% increase on my income. Um

[42:03] uh so I I don't understand this no inflation effect somewhere is is built

[42:08] in there and you do have an opportunity uh as was mentioned here in looking at

[42:13] the city budget and what happens uh being involved in the general plans. Uh

[42:19] I don't know how much that cost to pro produce and I don't know how much it's

[42:24] going to cost to implement but you as a city council have control over that

[42:29] expenditure. And all I can do is ask you to be very conscientious and not look at

[42:35] it as just 15%. I mean 40 bucks a year or whatever it is

[42:39] it's supposed to be, but that's not that my my portion on my house is going to be

[42:43] up on that. Although $60 $61, but um my portion is going to be bigger than that.

[42:50] It's not just a $61 a year here. But it's everybody's $61. And I'm I'm sorry

[42:57] that I missed I saw Robin after the South Davis or the Yeah. South Davis

[43:03] Fire Assessment. I was going to show up at that and found out that I had the

[43:06] time wrong and nobody came. I don't know how much of an increase that is, but it

[43:11] bothers me significantly that South Davis was fire is asking over a 16%

[43:16] increase themselves and then coming to you the cities and asking for a

[43:21] significant increase. That is outlandish. And that's one of those

[43:24] things that I don't know. I can't remember when it was, but that's another

[43:27] one that was separated out. We made a new taxing entity and who here we go.

[43:34] Um, you know, this this fire district thing, that's not a big meeting. And

[43:40] obviously when I found out that I was nobody came and I was just driving in

[43:44] the parking lot as everybody else was driving out, I was very disappointed

[43:48] that I'd missed that. So, I just wanted you to know that this is what it is. You

[43:52] do have an impact and it's everybody's 15% impact that makes my taxes go up 33%

[43:59] in 5 years on the same house. Everybody adds up. You just put it all together.

[44:05] That's why please be conscientious. Be aware of what we're doing. Be reasonable

[44:09] in what you're doing when you implement this general plan u and how you spend

[44:14] the money. uh it's your money but it's out of my pocket and uh I would like to

[44:21] have some input on it and thank you. >> Thanks. [applause]

[44:30] » Uh others that are in person.

[44:41] » Hi, I'm Diane Witten. I live on Center Street in Centerville

[44:46] and I just want to reiterate how important

[44:49] it is to stick with a budget because my salary doesn't increase if I need

[44:55] something. All the prices have increased in everything. Groceries are outlandish.

[45:00] Gas is outlandish. I'm barely making it by. And I know I'm not the only one. And

[45:07] I can't go to my boss and say, "Hey, I need an increase in my raise. I I don't

[45:13] get it. I I've already plateaued in my work. I'm not going to get an increase

[45:18] at all. And so if there's an increase in my grocery budget, I have to cut down on

[45:25] something else. I can't just keep going how I am. And so I'm asking that you

[45:32] really seriously take a look at the budget and say, is this a necessary

[45:37] expenditure or is this a want? because there is a

[45:42] huge difference in that and I know there's some underlying padding going

[45:47] on. I took over doing my dad's bills and the Centerville city bill for his

[45:52] household of one person and my city household bill for three people with a

[45:58] son who uses the hot water heater for every shower were exactly the same to

[46:03] the penny every single month. So there there is some padding going on

[46:09] underneath. And you know, if you're going to do

[46:14] that, it tells me that there's a little bit of discrepancy in what can we get

[46:21] away with. I would like to see more honesty. I

[46:25] would like to see some serious budgeting because that's what I have to do.

[46:32] That's literally what I have to do.

[46:36] I I don't want to see any more increases.

[46:41] I'm saving every month trying to afford taxes.

[46:46] My house is paid for. I'm saving every month to pay for insurance on the house,

[46:50] too. And then if I have a medical problem

[46:55] come up, that comes right out of my savings account for the taxes. And I'm

[46:59] scrambling to save enough for taxes. again.

[47:03] It shouldn't have to be this hard to live in such a good community.

[47:09] It really shouldn't. We've got good people here and I'd like

[47:14] to keep it that way, but it it's it's outpricing it's outpricing people. And

[47:21] instead of saying how much lower are we than other cities in taxes, I'd rather

[47:26] have us look at what can we do to be even lower and make it more affordable

[47:30] for our citizens to live here. I'm happy to do away with some

[47:36] amenities. I I volunteer to pick up trash on

[47:41] trails. I've done that before. I'm happy if our community reaches out

[47:46] to, you know, does a community clean up instead of asking for the parks and, you

[47:53] know, other public servants to clean up. I think we can we can step up and

[47:59] volunteer if that helps cut money in a place that can be cut and then that

[48:05] money can be pushed over to where you really need it. Anything to save some

[48:09] money so we don't have to raise taxes would be really appreciated. Thank you.

[48:14] » Thanks. [applause]

[48:20] » Anybody else that's uh present?

[48:25] Do >> we have any raised hands online?

[48:28] » No raised hands. We have two folks online. One online now, but haven't seen

[48:34] a raised hand. >> So, no comments uh from online.

[48:40] Okay. Seeing uh nobody else uh from the audience or

[48:46] online that uh wants to comment, I will close the public hearing and let's see

[48:53] if we can't uh respond to some of your questions. Um

[49:00] uh first off, I'm going to call uh something that Diane said in regards to

[49:08] tax rates on water fees. Can we help out there? Help her explain help her

[49:14] understand those how those water fees work.

[49:18] » Nate's got you. >> This isn't part of property tax, by the

[49:22] way. Water fees are separate from property tax, but he can give you a feel

[49:27] of how how the water fees work. >> Yeah. So, uh for water, uh everybody's

[49:33] meter gets read once a month. uh and that determines how many thousands of

[49:37] gallons uh of water has gone through that meter. Um so every

[49:43] uh house will get there's two parts to your water bill. There's a base rate uh

[49:48] and that'll vary based well so it's the same for every of the similar size of

[49:52] the meter. So all 3/4 in meters will pay roughly $35 in a base fee. And then your

[50:00] usage is the second component. Um, so depending on how much you use, there's a

[50:05] multiplier, uh, I think the first tier, so from zero to 5,000 gallons, I think

[50:11] it's somewhere around $160 per thousand gallons. Um, so if you feel like, uh,

[50:17] you mentioned you're uh you have one situation where there's one person in

[50:21] the house versus multiple people in the homes. Um, one situation could be that

[50:26] you have a leak going on. Uh you'd be surprised at how much a dripping faucet

[50:31] or a running toilet can consume of water. Um so if you have a concern about

[50:37] a leak, please call us and we can our public works our water department can go

[50:41] out and help determine if you have a leak or not. Um so that's something that

[50:45] we can help you with. Or if you have other general questions about your bill,

[50:48] uh please call us. We're happy to answer those questions.

[50:52] So that helps uh with with water fees. Uh helps you understand there. Doug, I'm

[50:58] not a fan of how California runs their government either, but one thing that

[51:01] you mentioned uh yes, they did freeze property taxes

[51:05] for existing homeowners, but anybody new that's buying a home make makes up for

[51:10] that. >> That's correct.

[51:12] » So you pay the tax.

[51:14] » Yeah. So So it's >> it's murder for the the new people that

[51:20] are buying. So, you know, there there's there's So, I'm not going to comment one

[51:26] way or the other, but that that I just want that to be known. Um, council, what

[51:31] other things that were brought up that that we we could answer?

[51:34] » I'll touch on the Prop 13 if that's okay. A little bit more, mayor. I do

[51:37] have a mother-in-law or my in-laws are in California and and Prop 13, the grass

[51:42] is not always greener. As I analyze their utility bill or their property tax

[51:47] bill compared to their neighbors, they pay 100% of their property taxes. So

[51:50] when the gentleman next door moved in at $700,000, he pays $7,000 a month or a

[51:55] year for his property taxes while they continue to pay $1,800 a month. But they

[52:00] have so much debt because they have no money from the property taxes that their

[52:04] property taxes are are quite a bit because of the the bonds that they have

[52:09] to take out because they don't have any money. The biggest downfall of the Prop

[52:13] 13 is that when you leave the county, you then pay that new rate. So, you pay

[52:19] that higher amount in the new county. But what's one thing that doesn't move

[52:22] counties, and that's commercial businesses. So, Disneyland hasn't moved.

[52:26] So, their property taxes have been frozen. So, the residents are stuck

[52:30] filling in that gap of what commercials left behind. So, right now, there's a

[52:34] lot of legislation in California to undo the damage that Prop 13 has done. Just

[52:39] want to throw that out there. >> Other things that were brought up,

[52:45] council, that staff that I might be missing to help answer their their

[52:49] questions as they commented. >> We had a question about the garage

[52:52] doors. Can you just clarify the amount of doors? It seems like we reduced it.

[52:57] » Yes, we did. We are not replacing all of them. I think we're only doing two if I

[53:01] remember right. >> Garage doors went from four to two. And

[53:05] one of the arguments that has been shared is that leaving it on the shelf

[53:09] is is definitely an opportunity, but you lose the warranty if it's sitting on the

[53:12] shelf. So buying it um and installing it, you you get the warranty whether

[53:18] it's one year or limited warranty. And so if you have it on the shelf, then you

[53:21] lose that warranty. >> I'm not I'm just making an argument of

[53:25] one of the reasons why it's important. >> Sure.

[53:28] » Ridiculous objection. >> I understand.

[53:30] » Businesses large businesses can put them on the shelfy

[53:35] They still put on make it work and buy again.

[53:38] » Let let us continue. >> We're we're not just debating back and

[53:43] forth. We're just let's just answer the questions for now. Doug,

[53:47] » um another question was uh a discussion on replacing vehicles. Um do you want to

[53:54] address that? Um, so one of the advantages of of local government, we

[53:59] have access to state contract pricing, which is pricing that is better than

[54:04] what's available to the public. So there's a balance that you try to strike

[54:09] when purchasing a new vehicle and selling of that vehicle. The longer you

[54:13] hold on to it, the less value it has. So there's a balance that you try to retain

[54:16] as much value. and we analyze when's a good time to sell it to retain its value

[54:21] to recover as much as we can in its value to help purchase the new one

[54:24] because we have access to state contract pricing. So that's I don't know Nate if

[54:29] you have anything else to add to that. >> Yeah. No, I don't have the numbers off

[54:32] the top of my head but uh that model has served us well. Uh we just sold um the

[54:39] couple vehicles in public works that were about four years old. Um, and the

[54:45] difference between our purchase price and our sale price was only a couple

[54:48] thousand dollars. >> It's $500 a year and essentially in the

[54:53] leasing of that vehicle. >> So, when we can sell a vehicle at the

[54:56] right time where it's still somewhat new,

[55:02] » you're able to get use out of it, but still recoup your original purchase cost

[55:07] almost. Um, and I think our our team's done a good job at trying to balance

[55:12] that. Now certainly there's vehicles that get

[55:16] a little more use like our parks vehicles. Those certainly do not get

[55:19] replaced um like our admin vehicles would.

[55:24] » And of course the value with that is less maintenance cost. So with a smaller

[55:27] fleet mechanics or contracting out for [clears throat] those services. We're

[55:32] not replacing tires, we're not replacing brakes uh or anything like that. So you

[55:37] in the long run uh the the cost of maintenance is less with that

[55:42] » and most major repairs are done under warranty.

[55:48] » I have just a couple of things I'd like to say.

[55:51] Number one, I started where you are. So when you talk sometimes it's emotional

[55:58] for me because I was where you are. I've got you beat. I drive a 2005 car.

[56:05] So, there's probably not many people that are tighter than I am. And if you

[56:09] don't believe me, I'll give you my kids' phone numbers because

[56:13] growing up, they were never allowed to drink a soda pop. And they never go to a

[56:16] restaurant now. But what they don't order soda pop because their mother

[56:19] never let them have a soda pop in a restaurant. So, I'm pretty tight. I've

[56:24] been on the council for 10 years. I have voted against property tax increase and

[56:31] I have voted for property tax increase, but I'm pretty fussy over

[56:37] what I'm going to vote for. So, I look at it and I think it's hard. Sometimes

[56:44] you see what the property tax p is and this was where I was and I'm like, come

[56:50] on guys, find some things to cut back. But what you don't realize is we have

[56:54] just like they said we went from four garage door openers to two garage door

[56:58] openers because we were kind of like you. We're like we're a little iffy on

[57:02] that one. But you know we we worked with our employees and and we did this is not

[57:09] everybody's wish list. We don't let everybody come in and say you know what

[57:15] do you want this year? What do you need this year? And so what you're seeing is

[57:20] they have brought in their wish list and Brandt cuts it way back and then we cut

[57:26] it back further so that you know it isn't. Do I worry about people paying

[57:31] their property taxes? Very very much so. I live in the older part of Centerville,

[57:38] so I live by some older people whose property taxes are going up and and it's

[57:45] really hard for them to pay them. And I have my own feelings, but all I can

[57:51] control is the city. I'd really like to see something done for the older people

[57:56] who've paid taxes their whole life. But then again, it's like California. If we

[58:01] lower the the older people's the younger people's go up, did I have more money

[58:07] then? I'm on a very fixed income. Do I have money now? So, that's another thing

[58:13] I think we also need to remember when you're asking us to cut things back. I

[58:18] have people say to me, "Well, you put this in you put the pickle ball courts

[58:22] in." The people of Centerville voted for that. It's a wrap tax, which tells me

[58:28] they want the parks. they want the different amenities in their city. And

[58:33] so when they vote for that wrap tax, it it does tell me that they that they do

[58:39] want that. Um when you talked about the vehicles a while ago, the sewer came out

[58:45] and they were driving and I don't remember what they were called, but my

[58:49] husband came right home and wanted one. The fanciest pickup truck out there.

[58:53] [clears throat] I called the city or the sewer department right up and I'm like,

[58:56] "What are you thinking?" Well, they informed me that the resell value of the

[59:02] really fancy trucks was a lot better than the other one. So, did I agree with

[59:07] everything they were doing? No. But then the city brought us this and after being

[59:12] on here for 10 years, I can tell you our maintenance costs are going down. I'm

[59:16] shocked when they come in on a state uh contract. We buy the vehicles at a

[59:22] really good price, but then we sell them to the average person. So, we are only

[59:28] losing a couple thousand dollars on them and we have no

[59:33] um maintenance on them. I mean, we're not having to fix. They're still under

[59:38] warranty. So, you know, that that helps. Um

[59:45] trying to make sure I get everything. Uh just and this doesn't do with the tax

[59:50] increase, but on your water bill. I know. I was just helping a neighbor with

[59:54] theirs who's unfortunately had a leak and they've paid $700 more in the last

[1:00:00] two years and didn't even know they had a leak. So, I've been trying to help

[1:00:03] with them, but I was interested to know that we're charged by to by the thousand

[1:00:10] a gallons that we use and the first 5,000 is $168

[1:00:16] per gallon. So if you're using >> thousand gallons. So if you're using

[1:00:25] 10,000 gallons more than you said uh a relative, it's

[1:00:34] only going to save you or cost you $168. But I want to keep that that way because

[1:00:41] I don't want to charge people. Now, if you've got a swimming pool and you can

[1:00:46] afford all of that, then I think we should charge this higher end. But then

[1:00:50] I come up with the concern about these poor people that didn't really

[1:00:53] understand the water bill. What would it have been if we'd have been charging

[1:00:57] them more? So, I'm trying to figure out how we can charge more bigger water

[1:01:01] users, but make sure that it isn't the leaps of the people that we're charging.

[1:01:06] So, I do want you to know that I care very much. Um, I think it's very

[1:01:12] important that we have a police officer. I I think I've gone out and talked to a

[1:01:19] lot of citizens. This is kind of a hard one to say, but as you can see, we don't

[1:01:24] have a lot of people here. So, I think a lot of people are feel like we're doing

[1:01:29] a pretty good job. It's frustrating to me that this room isn't full.

[1:01:34] I think if we've got a tax increase, we should be hearing from 500 of you

[1:01:38] instead of just a few. But the other my only other thing is you

[1:01:45] have to know when I talk to my um department heads and I talked to Mike

[1:01:51] from public works and he tells me that pipe is now, you know, 10 times more

[1:01:56] than it was 10 years ago. Well, I understand that because my food is, but

[1:02:03] somehow we have to still fix the water leaks. We have to have wages that

[1:02:10] compete with the employees. I mean, our employees wages I I look at sometimes,

[1:02:16] I'm thinking, wow. But on the other hand,

[1:02:20] I pay, you know, more for anybody that comes and does anything for me. I want

[1:02:24] to keep our good employees. We have excellent employees here.

[1:02:29] Uh, I don't think our health our health insurance is anything that's debatable.

[1:02:34] We don't have a choice on our fire department

[1:02:38] and I am happy to pay an extra $5 a month if it's going to bring the police

[1:02:44] department to our homes faster. I've had my elderly

[1:02:50] mother living with me and I've called the police department and the fire

[1:02:54] department my fair share of times in the last seven years. So, I don't want

[1:02:59] anybody to walk out of here and think I don't care. I have pushed back. I have

[1:03:04] asked them to cut back. We have told our police officers in 10 years they asked

[1:03:09] for a new police officer at the beginning of the budget season every

[1:03:13] year and sometimes they wanted to. We've told them no. We've told them no. We've

[1:03:18] told them no till we feel like it's now affecting our police officers because

[1:03:23] they're having to work more. So, I'm finally giving in to that police

[1:03:28] officer. In 10 years, I've approved one police officer. So, this will be my

[1:03:32] second police officer I've approved. I'm not just giving out the farm. Like I

[1:03:38] said, you'll find out I'm tight with the city, tighter than the employees would

[1:03:43] like me to be, and I'm tight at home. So, you know, I just want you to to

[1:03:48] understand that this is a hard position and I understand it more now because I

[1:03:53] was for 20 years I was out there sitting where you are. But I do fight really

[1:03:59] hard to keep your taxes down. That's why they're going up an average of $5 a

[1:04:04] month instead of more because if we were giving them

[1:04:08] what they wanted, it would be a lot more. And it is concerning that we're

[1:04:12] having to take into our rainy day fund. And something I don't know if they want

[1:04:16] me to tell you or not, but a lot of that rainy day fund came from CO money from

[1:04:21] the federal government. So it will run out. Hopefully we won't have another CO.

[1:04:26] So that's where we were able to build up

[1:04:30] our funds. >> Thanks, Councilman Mum. So, I just in

[1:04:36] full in purposes of full disclosure, maybe council or Nate or Brand or Lisa

[1:04:43] uh or the chief, one of you can help me. So, we have this new property tax impact

[1:04:49] schedule uh and we have in front of us that the the just under 370,000

[1:04:55] and we're saying that we're short 1.5 million. We're going to take 1.2

[1:05:00] million. I'm rounding here. 1.17 million from fund balance and 370,000 with the

[1:05:06] tax increase. We came we came up with some schedule beforehand that showed we

[1:05:11] could do 370 elsewhere, but this is what we submitted to the state. So my

[1:05:16] question is this is obviously the medical increases are going to happen or

[1:05:21] have the South Davis fire assessment increase is there. It's a reality. We're

[1:05:26] two months into our fiscal year. Uh and uh my question is this is if we do not

[1:05:34] hire that police officer in the next by next the end of next June 30th

[1:05:41] uh like I said I just want full disclosure is that something that uh

[1:05:46] we're penalized by the state for uh you know because we haven't followed our

[1:05:50] property tax impact schedule or uh anybody anybody had know the situation

[1:05:56] there are we required to spend the money that we put on the property tax impact

[1:06:02] schedule within our next fiscal year. >> That's a good question. One I haven't

[1:06:08] put a lot of thought into. >> I may if I mayor I did make a couple of

[1:06:11] phone calls and no not again kind of as we discussed earlier. No, there are no u

[1:06:18] penalties for not implementing exactly what we have. As long as we're making a

[1:06:23] good faith effort to hire uh an officer, then we're okay. The the challenge, of

[1:06:29] course, the drawback is if it's used as an anecdotal

[1:06:33] um at the state legislature saying, "Hey, look, we gave them this tool and

[1:06:37] and and Centerville says they're going to hire a police officer and they

[1:06:40] didn't, so we need to get more strict or change the legislation to really uh get

[1:06:46] into a little bit more. That that's a possibility, but again, highly unlikely.

[1:06:49] I think the whole entire point of this was to be more transparent, which this

[1:06:55] this property tax impact schedule is frustrating in terms of that it's

[1:07:00] somewhat misleading to the residents in my mind of what we're increasing tax for

[1:07:03] because there's so many other reasons why we're increasing it. This only shows

[1:07:09] 369,000 when ultimately we experienced easily identifiable about $670,000 for

[1:07:15] the property tax increases we could have justified with this increase with all

[1:07:18] the inflation. Right? So, this is what we're submitting, but it doesn't

[1:07:23] necessarily capture the 1.5 million shortfall we're experiencing alto

[1:07:27] together and what we need to make up for that um deduction. So, we're not going

[1:07:33] to be penalized this this year. However, does it create the argument at the state

[1:07:38] legislature that they revise the rules and and code to force us to take a

[1:07:43] different approach? That's a possibility, but I think it's

[1:07:45] justifiable for us. We made the attempt if we didn't try to recruit an officer,

[1:07:50] then that definitely looks shady. Right. >> Right. And that's why I preface my

[1:07:55] question with we could have we could have put a dozen different items here to

[1:08:00] make up the shortfall, you know, but this is what we chose for the property

[1:08:04] tax impact statement first year for this for uh I'm repeating myself again to the

[1:08:10] state and I just uh if you don't come through on what you're saying uh that's

[1:08:16] that's what I wanted a question >> and what we picked mayor I think is is

[1:08:21] justifiable in terms terms of we're talking about a new position and as we

[1:08:25] discussed earlier there's a difference between a funded position and an

[1:08:27] unfunded position. This is going to be a funded position. Therefore, I believe

[1:08:31] it's fiscally responsible for us to fund the position. We have building

[1:08:35] custodians that are unfunded positions [clears throat] approved by council.

[1:08:39] [cough] But we're talking about a new ongoing expense uh that is going to

[1:08:45] carry forward and putting in here potentially a software program that we

[1:08:48] use one year and then taking and we don't continue forward. I think that's

[1:08:52] more misleading to the the public. These are ongoing uh justifiable and as I've

[1:08:57] shared with council in the past, anytime we have a new expense, we need that new

[1:09:01] revenue to support that new expense, particularly a new police officer is the

[1:09:04] argument. South Davis Fire Assessments, we've been seeing well every year since

[1:09:09] we we joined with South Davis Fire and and before we've been able to absorb

[1:09:15] these increases with property or sales tax increases or other revenues. Um but

[1:09:20] sales tax is not increasing. Postcoid spending habits have sta have changed

[1:09:25] substantially and and that has caused our sales tax to to be somewhat stagnant

[1:09:30] with only an increase of 2% this year is what we're forecasting. Um so again,

[1:09:35] we're kind of in this new normal of figuring out what the spending habits

[1:09:39] will be and what our revenues will be, but our expenses keep skyrocketing with

[1:09:45] whether it's pipe or asphalt or equipment or whatever the case might be.

[1:09:48] So, we we've been able to do a good job of absorbing those increases. It's now

[1:09:53] starting to come to a head. As I've jokingly said in the past, we found all

[1:09:56] the change in the couch cushions um and found where we can make sure that we're

[1:10:01] a little bit more tight in some areas and reduced our expenses in others.

[1:10:05] Department heads, I really appreciate what they have done going this through

[1:10:07] this exercise with me to make sure that we keep our increases um as minimal as

[1:10:13] possible this year. But we have found all the change in our couch cushions and

[1:10:17] and but a new police officer, that's a whole different ballgame. That's that

[1:10:21] has to have its own revenue source to be sustainable. Anyway, sorry, I could keep

[1:10:26] going, but I'll stop there. >> While we're there, mayor, may I

[1:10:30] [clears throat] >> make a couple of comments with respect

[1:10:32] to that. First of all, I I applaud our [clears throat]

[1:10:37] our state legislature for for trying to provide a revenue in the truth and

[1:10:44] taxation law where expenditures and designations for what that increase is

[1:10:50] being guided toward uh are to go for so that our public knows. I I do and I I

[1:10:59] understand the complicity of how many items are increasing in our city and

[1:11:04] we're identifying three here. Okay. I I will say and I I want to say this

[1:11:11] because we have a state representative here in our audience, but uh when I'm

[1:11:17] I'm a little worried and and frankly concerned that when we choose which ones

[1:11:24] we identify there, of course, it's palatable to the public that medical

[1:11:30] insurance is increasing. We got to raise taxes to cover it. uh medical insurance

[1:11:36] has probably increased every year for the last 20. We've been able to absorb

[1:11:40] the increase in the insurance with our tax rates until now. It is increasing.

[1:11:46] We got to cover that somehow. But but why did we pick that one to put on the

[1:11:51] list? That worries me a little. That that's a real palatable one. Of course,

[1:11:55] the South Davis Fire Assessment, the fire department has been necessitating

[1:12:00] and requested assessments to us for years. We've absorbed those assessments

[1:12:06] in other years. And so to include just those I love that we're getting more

[1:12:12] more transparent. I think we can get even better by doing things that are

[1:12:19] that that enhance the transparency because there are some areas this

[1:12:23] council knows very well as we've been through audit or budget debating that

[1:12:29] that Councilman Banganger is not going to be supporting this increase. Uh and

[1:12:34] there are reasons that I believe we could tighten our belt in areas I've

[1:12:39] suggested 132,000 of them. very little of that was was acceptable to to the

[1:12:47] other members of the council, which disappoints me. But I appreciate like

[1:12:51] what Robins just or council member Mikum has just pointed out, there are some

[1:12:57] legitimate needs. I would be supporting a tax increase for a police officer. Uh

[1:13:05] I [clears throat] I have I have vetted I've looked into that

[1:13:09] thoroughly. I I understand the number of reasons the chief has pointed out and I

[1:13:17] give public safety a huge priority in governmental provision of services to a

[1:13:24] city or or county or whatever. And the sentiment in our country of defund the

[1:13:29] police just aggravates most all of us with rational thinking. And and so there

[1:13:37] is a sentiment that that's turned to where maybe we need to support our first

[1:13:42] responders, especially our public safety and police officers. And given the

[1:13:47] situation Centerville's in with having to cover shifts that are uncovered, the

[1:13:51] the increase in the need for public safety with our big box stores and more

[1:13:56] vandalis more uh what is it? Uh uh it's not vandalism, it's uh theft.

[1:14:03] shoplifting. There's the word. And and those things. Uh I I want our city safe

[1:14:09] and I want our officers safe and have enough. So I can see that I I would have

[1:14:15] supported a smaller increase that would have included the ability for us to get

[1:14:20] a police officer. Uh some of those other areas. And by the way, Nate, you you

[1:14:26] pointed out well some of the services that are provided by our city, there are

[1:14:30] some that are are decreasing. Uh Centerville City used to be able to

[1:14:34] provide a cemetery plot for residents who passed away. We can't provide that

[1:14:40] anymore and we've had a citizen vote on that who supported a bond to even do it.

[1:14:45] And the challenge there not been lack of desire. Property acquisition is a big

[1:14:50] deal. But that's a that's a an attribute or a service that our city

[1:14:56] doesn't provide anymore. There are other areas of our city where I think we could

[1:15:01] we could do some some belt tightening and I we've done a little uh I think we

[1:15:08] could do more. So So I want the the public to understand I wish more people

[1:15:13] were here. It would be so helpful to understand their perspective and for

[1:15:17] theirs to understand our difficulty in trying to meet these needs and our

[1:15:23] frustration when it is seemingly seen as wants but sometimes appropriately

[1:15:29] identified as wants rather than needs. And I wish we could uh I wish it was an

[1:15:35] easy choice to make. It's never an easy choice to make. Uh but for those reasons

[1:15:43] and then some of the things I do believe we need to do haven't been incorporated

[1:15:47] into our budget. I I I want to mention one other thing. Uh I applaud staff for

[1:15:55] identifying it hasn't been brought up once here tonight about the impact of

[1:15:59] this increase on our business community. uh staff went to some extra effort and

[1:16:06] Paul or or uh legislator Cutler uh if you'd be aware when when the truth in

[1:16:15] taxation notice went out and it identified how much an average home in

[1:16:19] Centerville would increase it used the same number for a business. It used the

[1:16:25] a number of average home $660,000 or something. Okay, a business at 660 would

[1:16:32] pay it was about $100 more. Well, the fact of the matter is, thank you staff

[1:16:37] for identifying as my request that that the average business in Centerville

[1:16:42] values property-wise 1.7 million. So, the impact on on the average business in

[1:16:48] Centerville is 316 $369.

[1:16:54] uh that's a big difference and to any businessman and then it's compounded

[1:16:59] that doesn't that's not an expense you pay this year and you're done with it as

[1:17:03] we raise taxes that's an expense they will pay from here going forward forever

[1:17:07] because taxes we know never go down and then it compounds as they're raised

[1:17:11] going forward so our but our businesses aren't here I get it you know they're uh

[1:17:19] they most of them were only thinking they're paying $100 more because the the

[1:17:24] notification was a little bit misleading, but uh but that's

[1:17:30] [clears throat] that's where we're at for that reason. And then and then our

[1:17:34] city uh I also want to point out for those who

[1:17:39] are forthright and taking enough time to be here tonight, you know, this isn't

[1:17:43] the only increases. Our water bill in this budget's going up 7%.

[1:17:49] And last year, storm drain fees went up 50%.

[1:17:54] And uh there are there are challenges, needs that need to be met. Sometimes we

[1:18:01] need to tighten our belt a little tighter. I know I'm the old guy on the

[1:18:06] council. I'm conservative and I and I I live with some some thoughts from the

[1:18:13] past and I know expenses are greater in this day and age.

[1:18:17] I I'm one who believes that incremental races are more palatable and more

[1:18:24] appropriate than big large 15

[1:18:30] point whatever percent is a large increase. Cola being at 2.9 I I think

[1:18:37] there's justification for some incremental maybe yearly but I I I will

[1:18:43] not be supporting our our proposed budget or or

[1:18:48] » Thanks, Councilman Banger. For point of discussion, and I don't I don't want to

[1:18:53] be competitional, but but I do want to ask you one thing. Uh you did identify

[1:18:59] $132,000 in areas where we could cut within our

[1:19:02] budget. And some of that we did cut, but let's pretend that we didn't cut any of

[1:19:07] that. Okay. Then 132,000 is about exactly what medical insurance increases

[1:19:14] and South Davis fire assessment increases are just a little bit more. So

[1:19:19] uh you just stress for us how important and police officer position is you

[1:19:24] support it. So does that on that based on that theory would you support a 10

[1:19:30] to cover the the the police salary? >> Would that cover the police officer

[1:19:36] allocation? Brand >> uh 10 to 12. Yeah, about 10 roughly

[1:19:42] [clears throat] >> because let's say that you got all that

[1:19:45] 132,000. We did take some of it. But let's say you got all that and we've

[1:19:50] we've that that would still leave the police that you ought to support. So

[1:19:54] that leaves like he says 10 to 12%. Then we'd still have to inc uh in do a tax

[1:20:01] increase for >> to fully fund that with with this

[1:20:04] budget, >> right? with with an increase to fully

[1:20:08] fund it with an increase >> because I just throw that out to you

[1:20:11] because that sure is an option out there. Uh just if if that's important to

[1:20:17] you to state that hey I could support a police increase and a 10 to 12% but not

[1:20:22] a 15%. You know so >> with that mayor I I appreciate that but

[1:20:27] also I'd need some direction from council where you're cutting that

[1:20:31] additional amount from in the budget today.

[1:20:33] » Right. Yeah. Right. I'm I'm just I'm just stating that that this that uh just

[1:20:39] in in theory if you did that we didn't eliminate those 132,000. We eliminated

[1:20:44] some of it. I'd have to go back through the notes of that.

[1:20:47] » And to clarify that that part of that was the garage door openers

[1:20:51] that have come up tonight. When they were first presented, it was nine garage

[1:20:55] door openers for $20,000. Okay. Now, we did come down, but I I

[1:21:00] just You said four to two. That's not quite accurate.

[1:21:05] » I >> I do I do want to share, but you're

[1:21:07] talking about one-time expenses, right? So, that's why we have fund 47s for

[1:21:11] those onetime expenses. So, 20 grand is going to go away next year. So, again,

[1:21:16] we're trying to focus on the items that are an ongoing expense that we see

[1:21:20] year-over-year, not one-time expenses. Buying a new vehicle is a onetime

[1:21:23] expense, right? So, new police officer is a year-over-year commitment. And so

[1:21:28] focusing on the property tax should be focused on that year-over-year

[1:21:31] commitment. You if this exercise has taught us anything, which I actually

[1:21:34] Nate and I have talked about this, we we actually appreciated this exercise of

[1:21:38] the property tax impact statement because it gave us an opportunity to

[1:21:41] really sit down and look at those increases and then really sit down and

[1:21:45] say, can we do without? And the answer is, well, no, that's what we presented.

[1:21:49] We already have done without. We've already cut where we possibly can cut.

[1:21:53] But so when you're talking about reducing it, we have a $ 1.5 million

[1:21:56] shortfall and it does include the fund 47 one-time projects in that budget. The

[1:22:01] issue [clears throat] that we're faced with, Nate, you'll have to tell me what

[1:22:04] the number is. We we need our general fund to help fund those one-time

[1:22:09] expenses as year-over-year because we we do buy

[1:22:14] two police vehicles a year. And so even though it's a one-time expense, it's

[1:22:18] kind of an ongoing expense. And so we need the general fund budget to cover

[1:22:22] those those schedules, those rotations that we've built in to make sure we

[1:22:26] replace those vehicles so they don't get too worn out. Um things like that. So

[1:22:31] really we're trying to do our best to to take the general fund that we have left

[1:22:36] that we transfer to fund 47 for the capital projects, but that is overtime

[1:22:40] dwindled and now we have to use a lot more of the fund 47 to balance this

[1:22:45] budget, which is not sustainable. So again, when you're looking for things to

[1:22:49] cut, we're talking about ongoing less parks maintenance, less road repair.

[1:22:54] We're talking about less public safety, which is a huge, not trying to pick on

[1:22:57] you, chief, but that's $5 million. That's that's half of our budget. And so

[1:23:03] labor is definitely the most expensive part of our budget. So when you're

[1:23:06] talking about trying to cut where we need to cut, that's what we're talking

[1:23:10] about. Not whether we buy a garage door opener or 10 or 100. Agree. It's about

[1:23:15] those ongoing expenses to run the city that we're required to do. So,

[1:23:20] » and others opportunities for that which we never addressed

[1:23:24] are the possibility of a smaller increase for our our employees. And

[1:23:32] » but we're doing a compensation study this year, right, to see where we are.

[1:23:36] And I think it's really critical before we make any knee-jerk reactions, we we

[1:23:40] do need to compare what other cities are doing because that's who we're losing

[1:23:42] our employees to. And you have to be very careful because employees are our

[1:23:46] number one asset. You start losing employees, it becomes really difficult

[1:23:50] to maintain a culture. I don't want to throw a city on the bus, but there's a

[1:23:54] city in Weber County that experienced a pretty high tax rate that have had

[1:23:57] challenges with employee turnover. And once that starts turning, it's really

[1:24:01] difficult to overturn. We have a great community. We have great staff. And so

[1:24:05] it is critical that we protect our staff. We don't need to be the best

[1:24:08] paying in the state, but we also don't want to be the lowest paying that we're

[1:24:11] losing our employees to other communities. We want to be fair, fair

[1:24:15] enough that they stay here because we do have great employees. But that's what

[1:24:18] we're trying to protect here. We're not trying to be the highest paid. We're not

[1:24:21] competing against those cities. We just want to make sure we reward those that

[1:24:24] have devoted their time to Centerville. >> And council, I I apologize. We have been

[1:24:29] through all these discussions previously through our budget hearing. this my

[1:24:34] fellow council members know where I stand. We differ in opinion on some of

[1:24:38] these things. I think with the police officer, maybe we we we go with that.

[1:24:43] Okay, maybe we buy one. We use one of the older cars for the new police

[1:24:47] officer this for this year and then next year your budgets are in a different

[1:24:52] situation. I just there are ways I don't want to go down rabbit holes of every

[1:24:57] expenditure. We don't have time or or the ability to do that tonight, but I

[1:25:03] generally that's that's where I'm at. I wanted to make that identified and

[1:25:11] » we did do that over six sessions which are all open to the public as well too.

[1:25:15] Mhm. >> And I respect all of of everything you

[1:25:17] said and if you've seen I'm more on the conservative side, but I also have seen

[1:25:24] over 10 years if we lose an employee it by the time we get them up and get them

[1:25:30] trained, we've lost more money. So, I'd rather pay our employees a little bit

[1:25:36] more and keep them than being paid for what I feel like is nothing because this

[1:25:41] employee is all trained, does a great job, and I've got to bring this one. I

[1:25:46] mean, but probably nine out of 10 police officers we hire have absolutely no

[1:25:50] police experience at all. And we're paying to send them to the uh

[1:25:55] » academy >> academy. And the thing about that is it

[1:25:58] used to be when my son first wanted to be a police officer, he was up between

[1:26:05] 150 people for every job. And so he didn't go there because and now it's

[1:26:10] really hard to hire a police officer. And like I said, probably at least eight

[1:26:15] out of 10 of them don't even have any police experience. So, am I gonna lose a

[1:26:21] eight-year, a 10y year, a 15year police officer over a percentage of increase

[1:26:29] compared to having to hire somebody, pay them their wages, send them to the

[1:26:35] academy. That kills me. I feel like I'm paying for nothing. So, I'd rather pay

[1:26:40] for the good commodity I have than the unknown commodity that I might be

[1:26:45] getting because it cost me a lot to get them up there. I think because of the

[1:26:49] experience that we have with staff, we we run a pretty lean staff and we're

[1:26:55] able to do that because we do have some significant experience that I mean some

[1:27:01] of those people are going to start retiring and I'm I'm worried for us. But

[1:27:06] um you did mention the cola increases that maybe it should have been less. I I

[1:27:11] felt like it's not that I didn't hear you or agree with you. I just happen to

[1:27:15] agree with the city manager that we want to be very careful about that until we

[1:27:18] do that rate study because we will be in a situation that we cannot return from

[1:27:24] very easily. I also want to comment on um I I do appreciate that when um I

[1:27:30] challenged you to find where we would cut in the budget that you did find

[1:27:34] $132,000. I didn't totally agree with every item.

[1:27:37] You're right. We don't always agree, but that didn't accommodate for the 369,000

[1:27:44] and it didn't accommodate for this the total of the 700,000 which um Brandt is

[1:27:50] right. We had more than that. We just opted to use the rainy day fund. Um also

[1:27:56] I want to make one comment on the cemetery. Yes, the the voters did vote

[1:28:00] for a cemetery. That bond would increase our property taxes. We are not paying

[1:28:05] for that right now. So that is, you know, that is a concern for me that we

[1:28:10] that we also watch that. Um people voted for it. We're looking for

[1:28:16] options, but we have to be very careful with that because that would be a

[1:28:20] significant ad onto the property tax potentially. Um

[1:28:25] I do want to mention I'm a member of the rec district. The bond for that building

[1:28:31] did drop off this year. So, not I mean, we did have one thing go off of the

[1:28:36] property property tax bill. Um, when we talk about fees, um, I totally agree

[1:28:43] with you, council member Bangader, that we should do those slowly and smaller

[1:28:49] increases are easier to absorb. In the case of the storm drain fees, those went

[1:28:54] on for many, many years without an increase. And that's what happens when

[1:28:57] we don't get those increases. Um, as far as water, because I worked for um the

[1:29:04] state division of water resources, I have watched very carefully what we're

[1:29:08] charging for our water fees. They have a formula that they use when they do loans

[1:29:13] for cities and they go into the affordability and we are meeting and are

[1:29:18] under the affordability for residents in Centerville. Now,

[1:29:23] that's a a modified adjusted gross income. It's not going to be the lowest

[1:29:28] income in the city, but it is that's probably

[1:29:32] the best that we can do. But at the end of the day, I will I can't apologize for

[1:29:38] making sure that we provide safe, reliable water. That is none of us are

[1:29:43] going to survive for more than three days without it. So, that is really

[1:29:48] something that we have to consider. I do want to also add that our staff um I was

[1:29:53] in a committee meeting a couple of weeks ago with one of our committees and um

[1:30:00] Brandt is really good at cutting stuff out of the budget before we see it.

[1:30:04] Something that we thought was in the budget got cut this year. So [laughter]

[1:30:08] » Oh, sorry. >> I do want to say that I do I do

[1:30:11] appreciate that it's not an overly inflated budget when it gets to us. And

[1:30:16] yes, we do cut into it. We we have gone through and tried to cut what we can. Um

[1:30:23] so I just I >> on average just Thanks for that, Council

[1:30:27] Member Hurst. On average, it's about $1.2 million that Nate and I go through

[1:30:31] the budget and cut out. This year was actually pretty awesome. They did a good

[1:30:35] job submitting as tight of a budget as they possibly could. And so I appreciate

[1:30:40] that. And you're right about the cemetery. the cemetery when rates the

[1:30:44] interest rates were good was about $70 a year for that cemetery bond. Now the it

[1:30:51] will be a revenue generator, but you have to be very careful about the

[1:30:54] revenue generation being because you well you'd have to figure out that

[1:30:58] policy about how much you charge for any uh plots. If you want to make it as sex

[1:31:02] accessible to the public as possible, your rates have to be low, but then

[1:31:05] you're not covering the costs. And >> but don't we have to guarantee it with a

[1:31:09] property tax? the bond has to be on a property tax.

[1:31:12] » No, it's a it's a general obligation bond. But nonetheless, it's just again

[1:31:16] something to be mindful of as I've discussed with you all is that I

[1:31:21] everybody wants something and you have all these demands all over the place,

[1:31:24] but nobody wants everything. So, you're trying to find the balance of

[1:31:29] accommodating so many different interests in this community and because

[1:31:33] you do have people who want more outdoor space, but then you have people who

[1:31:36] says, "Please, we just got a quiet neighborhood we don't want to do

[1:31:38] anymore." So you got all these competing interests and and the issue is there's

[1:31:43] only only so much um income out there with our residents and you got to

[1:31:47] balance that. So if we do a cemetery then that potentially cuts away from

[1:31:50] potentially more open spaces for our kids or a police officer or public

[1:31:54] safety because you can't do a $70 increase for cemetery and then on top of

[1:31:59] that have another property tax increase for roads and then another property tax

[1:32:02] increase for parks and there's only so much money. And so that's as we go

[1:32:06] forward, that's what you're all trying to decide is is how we prioritize all

[1:32:10] these different wants in our community. And and Centerville has done a really

[1:32:14] good job being as fiscally conservative as possible. I think we've done a really

[1:32:19] good job and and staff does a really good job being mindful of that fiscal

[1:32:23] conservativeness. We have an excellent staff who always trying to find ways to

[1:32:27] get grants. Mike's getting millions of dollars of grants on road projects,

[1:32:31] water projects, drainage projects that our residents don't see that and we

[1:32:35] don't have increases. We've been able to absorb these increases in the fire

[1:32:39] assessment and all these areas because Nate and I have gone through the budget

[1:32:43] and said, "Look, there's there's 20 grand." The the padding that was I

[1:32:47] wouldn't necessarily say there's a whole bunch of padding, but if there's any any

[1:32:50] areas where we feel like historically that we are not spending that much,

[1:32:55] we'll take that 20 grand away or that $500 away. Nate's Nate loves it when I

[1:32:59] do that. When I find $100, being like, "Hey, we're cutting this hundred bucks."

[1:33:03] So that's what we have done in the seven years I've been here is finding those

[1:33:06] little pockets, but it doesn't change the fact that inflation has increased

[1:33:10] drastically, especially after co and that's that's the crux where we're at

[1:33:13] right now is that we have found the areas our budget is so dang good and

[1:33:17] tight that we know where things are going. Um there's not a lot of padding,

[1:33:21] but that means we can't absorb these increases anymore. The increases have to

[1:33:27] be revenue revenue has to match the increases. So, council, uh, we've, I

[1:33:33] believe, have tried to answer, uh, the questions that were brought up in the

[1:33:37] public hearing. Uh, you've all had a chance to

[1:33:41] » I would like just >> the comment other other than Councilman

[1:33:44] Palmer, and I'll let you comment, [laughter]

[1:33:46] » but I'm trying to get us back to what we got to get back to. We have two

[1:33:50] resolutions in front of us uh that we have to decide on tonight. Started this

[1:33:55] meeting, I said we have, this is what we discussed in this meeting. We we don't

[1:34:00] discuss other all all this relates. I'm not saying we're not staying on topic,

[1:34:03] but but let's get back to these two resolutions. Councilman Plamer, yes. Not

[1:34:09] heard from you. And >> thank you. Thank you. I don't have a

[1:34:11] lot. >> Want to give you your floor time.

[1:34:13] » I don't have a lot because really what's been said is how I feel. I I I would

[1:34:18] like to sustain what uh Councilman Member Mikum has said, what council

[1:34:23] member Bangader has said. Uh, I I I I agree with so much of what you say. Uh,

[1:34:31] I appreciate Council Member Hurst's questions and I I I would just like to

[1:34:37] say that I I I [cough] understand and I feel for our um

[1:34:42] residents. I too uh feel that sometimes our taxes are uh feeling uh like they're

[1:34:54] they're getting out of control as we start seeing 33% increases over 5 years.

[1:35:00] uh sir I I absolutely feel that that is something that we need to uh

[1:35:09] take a look at and perhaps that's something that uh you know at the state

[1:35:13] level uh you know when uh people reach a certain age or uh

[1:35:22] people's uh income such as social security that's taxed things of that

[1:35:26] nature can be looked at at the state level to um allevate ate some of those

[1:35:31] uh taxes at certain times in our lives. And so I think that um from that

[1:35:37] perspective, we can say that we can only hope for some uh change uh

[1:35:43] at the state level. But at this point in time, I would like to say that

[1:35:50] uh over the last few years and getting to know the people that work in the

[1:35:55] city, they are very honest and they do due diligence to uh make

[1:36:03] sure that we are not frivolously spending money uh that we are uh doing

[1:36:11] the right thing with our the taxpayers's money uh focusing in on public safety

[1:36:18] and the roads and the uh infrastructure underneath the roads that are is so

[1:36:24] important to our uh way of life and our our standard of living. And I believe

[1:36:29] that that is uh something that I feel uh we're all blessed with here in this in

[1:36:34] this city is uh something that um many people from outside of Centerville look

[1:36:40] in and say, "Wow, that is that's such a great place

[1:36:45] to live." And I and I am tr truly grateful to the people that work here

[1:36:50] for doing uh those things that will make these this situation less difficult

[1:37:00] because yes, I don't want to raise taxes and I believe that tightening our belt

[1:37:09] is actually something that I do in my home. I will tighten my belt. I think

[1:37:15] that um at this point we uh could tighten our belt, but what would that do

[1:37:22] next year in the year after? Incremental um

[1:37:28] increases into for this I think are better than holding off and waiting for

[1:37:35] the 15% increase. Uh

[1:37:41] so ultimately we're faced with the difficult decision

[1:37:47] to pass a a a steep tax increase. I too would be inclined to really just focus

[1:37:56] on the the police officer and say, you know, hey, let's let's slow down this uh

[1:38:03] a little bit. But as our city manager has stated, that's only

[1:38:10] postponing what we are going to need to do, which is find other sources of

[1:38:15] revenue or decrease or or the uh expenses. And we

[1:38:22] we tried that. We we had six meetings on that. And I I feel that uh we did our

[1:38:30] due diligence in that regard. So, with that being said, I I

[1:38:40] will support the tax increase for the police officer. I've been very very

[1:38:46] upset and I've I've stated as such about the fire assessment and how it has gone

[1:38:52] up without much uh notice and then and that they also have the ability to raise

[1:39:00] our property taxes because they are that a taxing entity. So for that I I'm

[1:39:08] a little less supportive of that but I do see that that is still needing to be

[1:39:13] funded. So, where do we fund it from? We either need to raise the taxes here or

[1:39:19] somewhere else. So, what I'm going to say is that uh and the medical

[1:39:24] insurance, that's just a a one of those line items that we can't change. So,

[1:39:33] uh I guess what I would like to ask as we

[1:39:39] uh just get some clarification is

[1:39:45] if I could ask the chief, are we

[1:39:51] feeling that because I I actually want to just dovetail onto what the mayor had

[1:39:57] asked about with the um if are we going to be able to um get

[1:40:04] this position filled this year and what's your confidence level in that

[1:40:10] and uh and are we fully staffed at this particular moment in time?

[1:40:17] » Okay. So, um yeah, I I think we'll get the position

[1:40:22] filled this year. Um the question is whether these

[1:40:26] positions are staffed by someone out covering a shift and being effective as

[1:40:31] a police officer. That's a whole different question, right? Because you

[1:40:34] lose an officer, then you go through the hiring process, you identify someone,

[1:40:38] you send them to the police academy, they get out of the police academy, then

[1:40:42] they go out on the road for three months where they're paired up with a training

[1:40:45] officer where they're not they're not effective as a as an officer yet because

[1:40:50] they're they're together. There's two of them together, but they're filling just

[1:40:52] one position out on the road, one car. They're responding to all the calls

[1:40:56] themselves. And so the the I I believe yes, I I believe we'll get the position

[1:41:00] filled, but the question is whether they're going to be out on the road on

[1:41:04] their own effectively replacing that person,

[1:41:09] you know, replacing that position. And that's always been our heartache. And

[1:41:13] you've talked about the struggles with finding certified officers.

[1:41:18] um you know when when I went through the academy I self sponsored and a lot of us

[1:41:22] paid our own way you know took it as a college class we came out and that's

[1:41:26] just how it was before and now it's very you're very limited in who you can pick

[1:41:30] up that way and most times you you sponsor people through the academy and

[1:41:35] so you know we we lost an officer in June of 25

[1:41:39] that officer is out on field training right now and he's slated to get off end

[1:41:43] of October beginning of November on on his

[1:41:47] And that's >> but we did pay their salary while they

[1:41:49] were in the academy, right? Even though they're not in a shift. And I do want to

[1:41:52] clarify for the record that our recruitment that's ongoing right now for

[1:41:55] an officer >> is for the officer who resigned

[1:41:59] » and not necessarily to fill this position. Just so you know again because

[1:42:03] we've instructed chief that he can't hire recruit for this position until

[1:42:07] tonight on whether or not you approve this position. So we're not forcing your

[1:42:10] hand that we hey we're already in the process. The position he's recruiting

[1:42:14] for is a position, existing position that was unfilled at this point.

[1:42:18] » You did ask if we're fully staffed. We are not right. We we we had an officer

[1:42:21] resign go to another department >> this past week.

[1:42:24] » So, we're looking at seeing uh at least if this was to pass tonight, you will

[1:42:31] need to hire two police officers to be what you would say fully staffed.

[1:42:36] » Correct. But with that additional officer.

[1:42:40] » Okay. Just for everybody's information, while

[1:42:44] I've been on the council, there actually have been years that the medical

[1:42:48] insurance went up nothing or almost nothing. I was shocked, but there have

[1:42:53] been years that the medical insurance did not raise very much. I wished I had

[1:42:57] the years and the amounts, but I don't. But

[1:43:00] » it's a different time. I'm saying that there have been years that though we

[1:43:04] didn't have to absorb that because you know it was

[1:43:12] » Thank you. All right. Uh >> Mr. Mayor,

[1:43:15] » yeah, >> I'm sorry. Can I make one brief comment?

[1:43:18] I know I'm like a a disembodied voice coming from apparently the ceiling.

[1:43:23] » Um yeah, there was just a reference made to the property tax increase for the

[1:43:27] mosquito abatement district. and is a representative on that district. I just

[1:43:31] wanted to comment briefly, the property tax increase was 25% and as you'll

[1:43:36] recall when I brought this to the council, that sounds like a very

[1:43:39] significant number, but what that equals was 66 cents per month on a $600,000

[1:43:45] home. And the reason that we pushed that through was because we desperately

[1:43:49] needed to construct a new pesticide storage facility. And my understanding

[1:43:53] is that the mosquito abatement district has only raised property taxes twice in

[1:43:57] the last two decades. So I just wanted to as um a representative on that board

[1:44:03] just address that comment and that's all I have. Thank you.

[1:44:06] » Thanks Councilwoman Haven. All right, everybody's had a chance to comment that

[1:44:10] there's that. >> Can I just add one more thing? I just

[1:44:13] just for the people in the room. I think it's really helpful to know that many of

[1:44:17] these boards like the mosquito abatement district, the South Davis sewer

[1:44:21] district, the wreck district, um that all of those have

[1:44:26] representatives from each city, which is has been very helpful because we as a

[1:44:31] council often know what the property tax increases are that are

[1:44:37] coming. And we I we do try so carefully to try and balance that. like if we know

[1:44:42] something big is coming from one, we try to limit at least I feel like that

[1:44:47] weighs in. It's been helpful to have um that information from the various

[1:44:53] council members that serve. So I I don't know if that helps at all, but I think

[1:44:58] that has been a very helpful thing that we do have elected officials that are

[1:45:03] serving on those boards that kind of see all of the impacts to the property tax

[1:45:09] statement. One other thing I will add is since I've been on the council, we have

[1:45:14] not had an increase in our compensation. We have had I've absolutely not taken

[1:45:21] any more money than we were paid. I'm still I'm still compensated the same

[1:45:25] this year as I was 10 years ago. >> But with the pie chart following up with

[1:45:30] Councilwoman Haymon said, you're 60% that goes to the school district. We

[1:45:36] don't have any representation there. >> That's true.

[1:45:38] » Okay. We do on mosquito bait, we do on garbage, we do on sewer, but but your

[1:45:43] biggest chunk of your papaya, we do not have any representation or say there.

[1:45:48] So, all right. Uh so, uh with uh

[1:45:55] trying to be fair, giving everybody their time. Uh so, uh I'm looking for

[1:46:01] motions uh on resolution 2026-23 and 2026-24.

[1:46:11] I'll make a motion that we adopt resolution number 2026-23

[1:46:17] setting the real and personal property tax rate at 0.001314

[1:46:22] for the general fund for Centerville City Utah. Do we need to do two separate

[1:46:28] or shall I include them both >> and do it?

[1:46:32] » Am I okay to do both? >> Yeah.

[1:46:34] » Okay. and that we adopt resolution number 2026-24

[1:46:38] adopting the fiscal year 2027 final budget.

[1:46:45] » Okay, we have a motion. Do we have a second to that motion?

[1:46:50] » I'll sec I'll second that. >> We have a second that motion. Do we uh

[1:46:56] last minute for further discussion?

[1:47:03] Okay. If there's no further discussion, then I guess uh we we will vote on that

[1:47:09] motion. Let's start uh uh with to my right. Councilwoman Hurst.

[1:47:15] » I >> I

[1:47:17] » I Councilwoman H.

[1:47:20] » I. >> So that motion passes. Uh 4 to one.

[1:47:28] All right. Uh seeing well yeah because we're truth and taxation we do have no

[1:47:34] other items uh on the budget so or on on the agenda. So seeing that I would look

[1:47:40] for a motion to adjurnn. So moved. >> All right.

Special City Council Meeting - Truth In Taxation

Agenda

Transcript