[0:03] Okay, we'd like to call the meeting to

[0:05] order. Welcome to the Charleton Select

[0:08] Board meeting, September 22nd,

[0:09] [clears throat] 2026, 6:30 p.m. Town

[0:12] Hall meeting room 1, 37 Main Street,

[0:15] Charlton, Mass. This meeting is being

[0:17] recorded and broadcast live by Charlton

[0:19] Cable Access TV on Spectrum TV, channel

[0:23] 191, and recording available on the

[0:25] YouTube channel for Charlton TV. Any

[0:28] member of the public who wishes to

[0:30] record this meeting must first notify

[0:33] the chair. If we could stand for the

[0:36] pledge of allegiance, please.

[0:41] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

[0:44] United States of America and to the

[0:46] republic for which it stands, one nation

[0:49] under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[0:53] justice for all.

[0:57] » [snorts]

[0:58] >> And Mike, do we have announcements, sir?

[1:01] >> Yes. Announcements for the select board

[1:03] meeting September 22nd, 2026.

[1:06] Dudley Charlton Regional School District

[1:08] Special Education, September 29th, 2026

[1:11] from 12:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. at the

[1:13] Heritage School. Sample ballot on the

[1:16] town's clerk town clerk's page. yard

[1:19] waste drop off October 17th, 24th, and

[1:22] 31st, as well as November 7th, and 14th

[1:26] from 10:00 a.m. to 2 p.m. at the DPW

[1:28] located at 100 Flint Road here in

[1:31] Charlton.

[1:32] Special town meeting Monday, October

[1:35] 19th, 2026 at 7 p.m. located at the

[1:38] Charlton Middle School. We have state

[1:40] election November 3rd, 2026. Early

[1:43] voting begins October 17th through

[1:46] October 29th, 2026.

[1:49] For more information, see the town

[1:51] clerk's page for details. The library is

[1:53] also having a spice drive for the

[1:55] Chip-in Food Pantry from Monday,

[1:57] September 14th through Saturday, October

[2:00] 17th.

[2:02] They are accepting donations of new,

[2:04] unopened, unexpired spices for chipin to

[2:08] distribute with their monthly food

[2:09] pickups. You may drop off spices at

[2:12] either circulation desk.

[2:14] We have been celebrating mushrooms all

[2:16] month long. This Thursday, September

[2:18] 24th, from 6:00 to 7:30 at Dexter Hall,

[2:21] it'll be all about mushrooms. Micologist

[2:24] Jonathan Crayons will be discussing the

[2:27] basic of fungal life and insights on

[2:30] foraging for food and special emphasis

[2:32] on common mushrooms that are likely to

[2:35] be found in our area. At the senior

[2:38] center, they have a blood pressure

[2:39] clinic from September 24th from 8:30

[2:42] a.m. to 10:30 a.m. There's also a

[2:44] monthly grief support on September 29th

[2:47] at 3:30 p.m. Interdimensional by Ronnie

[2:51] Leblanc from the Discovery and Travel

[2:53] Channels is October 5th at 10:30 a.m.

[2:58] >> Okay, thank you, Mike. And moving on to

[3:01] open form. Is there anyone here for open

[3:03] form?

[3:06] Please come up and

[3:07] >> say your name. Hello.

[3:11] >> My name is

[3:13] >> and I'm the chair of the senior

[3:14] community center feasibility committee.

[3:17] Um I just had a few things I wanted to

[3:19] clarify since the last uh select board

[3:21] meeting. Um the proposed article for

[3:24] tonight's discussion says senior center

[3:27] but I want to clarify that it is a

[3:29] senior community center. uh feasibility

[3:31] committee has always been called senior community feasibility without

[3:36] plans including community center space.

[3:38] Um and we've also gotten feedback from

[3:41] many residents expressing an interest in

[3:42] a community center which I think I had

[3:44] also mentioned the last time. Um I also

[3:47] want to clarify that the proposed

[3:49] article is not a feasibility study. It's

[3:51] for the engineering design phase. Um an elaborate topographical analysis was

[3:57] done on the Masonic home road property

[3:59] for the public safety building and a

[4:01] Lero Hill feasibility study was a

[4:03] comparison of three options. The

[4:05] furniture store property, the town hall

[4:08] expansion and renovation and a new

[4:10] build. So this Masonic home choice would

[4:13] be using the new build from that

[4:14] proposal. Um, I want to reiterate that

[4:17] there are 3,960

[4:19] seniors out of a total population of

[4:21] 13,685

[4:23] in town today, which is expected to grow

[4:26] to 5,000 in the next 5 years. And our

[4:29] data indicates that 1194 individuals use

[4:33] the center in some form today. And

[4:36] finally, I want to say the committee has

[4:38] had a little more time to research the

[4:39] Masonic home property. Um, and we

[4:42] support either the Masonic or the

[4:44] Dresser Hill because our goal is the

[4:46] same as it has always been to support

[4:48] our seniors and the community at large

[4:50] with the best possible solution. So,

[4:53] >> thank you.

[4:59] » I'll take the seat.

[5:01] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[5:03] >> My name is Bruce Mannon, five Pine Lane.

[5:06] Um, I'm also here asking for support for

[5:08] the senior community center. Um, we are

[5:12] really ready to go. We have web pages

[5:14] set up. Uh, I'm sorry, Facebook page set

[5:16] up. Um, we have

[5:20] t-shirts all set to go. We've got signs.

[5:22] We're ready to go. So, I'm hoping that

[5:25] we are able to leave here tonight and

[5:27] distribute that stuff right out front.

[5:30] >> I think we're probably going to address

[5:31] most of that when we get down to that on

[5:33] the on the item on the agenda, but

[5:35] Anyone

[5:38] else for open forum?

[5:40] >> Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to ask, do

[5:41] you want us to wait to speak?

[5:44] >> You were on the agenda. So, we just

[5:47] >> Yep.

[5:50] » Anyone else here for open forum?

[5:53] Hearing one? Seeing none.

[5:56] >> Oh,

[5:59] » good evening. Um, my name is Rebecca

[6:01] Cousins. I live at 107 Daniels Road. I'm

[6:05] here to um bring to the selectman's

[6:08] attention some of the concerns of the

[6:13] citizens of Charleton about the

[6:15] situation with the fire chief.

[6:18] Um I can tell you as an attorney

[6:22] I have concerns about

[6:25] someone being left in his position while

[6:29] there is an ongoing investigation.

[6:32] I think, you know, I'm going to have to

[6:33] um

[6:35] the board has a policy. The town has a

[6:37] policy and you being inherent, you would

[6:39] understand that that we don't we don't

[6:41] discuss personnel matters

[6:44] in open form.

[6:45] >> So this is

[6:47] >> certainly not an open form. And if we do

[6:48] discuss personnel matters, the board

[6:51] discusses them.

[6:52] >> Okay.

[6:52] >> And in an in an executive session, okay,

[6:54] at a posted meeting.

[6:56] >> So does the board want to know how the

[6:58] citizens feel or do you not want to

[6:59] know? We just not in open form talking

[7:02] about a personnel matter. We're we're

[7:04] aware of the situation.

[7:06] >> I I don't think it's just a personnel

[7:08] situation.

[7:09] >> It's it's a policy. It's it's it's it's

[7:12] beyond a policy. Actually, it's mass

[7:15] general law that we just don't discuss

[7:17] personnel matters in open.

[7:19] >> I'm telling you as a citizen what I

[7:21] know. You can do what you with it what

[7:24] you will. I'm not telling you what to

[7:25] do. I'm just telling you that

[7:27] >> and I'm just explaining the policy and

[7:30] the rules. I can't be

[7:32] >> I would like to be able to say what I

[7:34] have heard and know and what I

[7:36] personally feel about the decision of

[7:38] the board. If you would prefer I just

[7:41] put that in writing then I will be happy

[7:43] to.

[7:43] >> There has not been a decision on the

[7:45] board of the board though. Actually,

[7:46] we're we're we're starting to get into

[7:48] the weaves of this discussion where we

[7:49] don't discuss personnel matters. I can't

[7:52] make that any more clear.

[7:53] >> Okay. Well, I'm just going to tell you

[7:54] and I want to be on record saying this

[7:56] now that I feel the town is being put at

[8:00] risk for lawsuits. So, if you want to

[8:02] consider that just I'm going to have to

[8:05] ask it's a personel matter. I

[8:07] >> Please

[8:08] >> noted.

[8:08] >> Thank you.

[8:11] >> Anyone else for open form with a with a

[8:14] topic

[8:16] other than the last one?

[8:20] Moving on.

[8:23] Approval of the minutes of the board's

[8:25] meeting on September 8th.

[8:28] >> Motion to approve the minutes as

[8:30] written.

[8:31] >> Second.

[8:32] >> All in favor?

[8:34] >> I I

[8:38] appointments and resations.

[8:40] [clears throat] Andrew.

[8:41] >> All right. We received a notice from Liz

[8:43] France that she needs to resign from the

[8:44] master plan steering committee due to

[8:46] family obligations. The board should

[8:48] accept her resignation and a letter

[8:50] thanking her for her her service to the

[8:52] town is in your sign folder.

[8:59] » Okay. Motion to

[9:02] accept.

[9:03] >> I move to accept the letter with regret.

[9:07] >> Second.

[9:08] >> All in favor?

[9:09] >> I.

[9:12] >> And we are a little early for our 6:45.

[9:17] I'll take the uh first few off the

[9:19] action items list.

[9:21] >> Yeah.

[9:23] >> All right. Uh the first action item is

[9:25] pavement surfacing of Center Depot Road

[9:27] bid award. Bids were open and read for

[9:30] pavement surfacing of Center Depot Road

[9:32] on September 2nd, 2026 at 2:00 p.m.

[9:36] After review of the bid, DPW

[9:38] Superintendent Peele is recommending the

[9:39] board award the bid to Mass Broken Stone

[9:42] Co. in the amount of $367,259.

[9:47] I'd recommend the board award the bid as

[9:50] requested.

[9:52] >> I would move to uh award the bid as

[9:54] requested.

[9:55] >> Second.

[9:58] >> All in favor?

[9:58] >> I It's unanimous.

[10:03] » Right. The next is a special alcoholic

[10:05] beverage license for the Overlook Fall

[10:08] Festival. attaches an application for a

[10:11] special alcoholic beverage license for

[10:12] wine and malt beverages from Daniel

[10:15] Drager of for the Overlook Fall Festival

[10:18] to be held Saturday, October 3rd, 2026

[10:22] from 11:00 a.m. to 4 p.m. at 88 Masonic

[10:24] Road. The application was forwarded to

[10:27] the police chief, building commissioner,

[10:28] and fire department for review, which

[10:30] all have approved. Per the board's

[10:33] policy, the dates on the license should

[10:35] include the day before the event to

[10:37] allow the alcohol to be delivered, the

[10:38] day of the event, and the day the day

[10:42] after the event to allow any alcohol

[10:44] left over to be picked up.

[10:47] I move to approve the special alcoholic

[10:49] beverage license as submitted by Daniel

[10:51] Darger for wine and malt u beverages to

[10:54] be used for the overlook festival with

[10:57] the dates on the license to be October

[10:59] 2nd 2006 to October 4th 2026.

[11:02] >> Second

[11:05] have a motion and a second. All in

[11:06] favor?

[11:07] >> I unanimous.

[11:10] >> Right. Next we have the Knights of

[11:12] Columbus request for a Tootsie Roll

[11:13] drive. The Knights of Columbus, Charlton

[11:15] Council 11379 is seeking to conduct a

[11:19] Tootsie Roll drive to benefit children

[11:21] with special needs and disabilities.

[11:23] They would like to set up a voluntary

[11:24] toll road on Saturday, October 10th,

[11:27] 2026 from 8 a.m. to 2 p.m. at the corner

[11:30] of Main Street and Masonic Road. This

[11:32] request has been forwarded and approved

[11:34] by the by police chief Dow contingent

[11:36] upon the following safety precautions.

[11:39] All volunteers must wear bright colored

[11:41] vests, yellow, orange, green, or red,

[11:44] while soliciting donations. Orange

[11:47] traffic cones must be set out on Main

[11:48] Street and Sonic Road for a distance not

[11:50] less than 50 ft on each respective way

[11:53] prior to reaching the toll station. A

[11:56] minimum of five traffic cones on each

[11:57] roadway should be put in place at

[11:59] distance no greater than 10 ft apart.

[12:01] and signs warning voluntary toll road

[12:03] ahead must be erected on both Masonic

[12:05] Home Road and Main Street now less than

[12:07] 75 ft from the toll collection area.

[12:10] Should the board approve this [snorts]

[12:11] request, I'd ask you consider including

[12:12] Chief Dow's recommendation into the

[12:14] motion.

[12:16] >> Do I have a motion?

[12:18] >> I move to approve as written.

[12:20] >> Second.

[12:22] >> All in favor? I

[12:24] >> I unanimous.

[12:27] [snorts]

[12:31] » Sure. Um opioid settlement funds grant

[12:35] application. At the board's May 25th,

[12:37] 2026 meeting, Jim FA came before the

[12:39] board requesting fund funding from the

[12:41] opioid settlement fund in support of the

[12:44] mission of his nonprofit organization,

[12:46] Adam's Parachute. There's currently

[12:48] 10,000 in uncommitted settlement funding

[12:51] under this uh under the opioid

[12:53] settlement. The board approved a grant

[12:55] application with a cap of $2,500 to

[12:57] those that apply if they fit within the

[13:00] guidelines of the use of the funds. We

[13:03] have [clears throat] received one

[13:04] application from Mr. FA for the minim

[13:07] maximum amount of $2,500 to be used for

[13:09] his nonprofit. I have refused the

[13:12] application and it supports the purpose

[13:13] of the funds to be used. I recommend the

[13:15] board approve the request.

[13:18] Do I have a motion to approve?

[13:20] >> So moved. Second.

[13:22] >> All in favor?

[13:23] >> I thank you for your work on that.

[13:25] >> No problem.

[13:32] » All right. U

[13:34] before we get to our 4 645

[13:38] um HCA amendment with Troton Investments

[13:41] LLC pedals cannabis. The Cannabis

[13:44] Control Commission issued a host

[13:45] community notice dated August 21st, 2026

[13:49] determining that section 5810 of the HCA

[13:53] with Charlton Investments LLC pedals

[13:55] canvas is non-compliant under 935 CMR

[13:58] 500.1804A

[14:02] and CMR 501

[14:05] 58A

[14:06] because it requires payment of a

[14:08] community impact fee prior to the end of

[14:10] the current fiscal year or within 90

[14:12] days of the of the commission's CIF

[14:15] certification. In order to cure this,

[14:17] Charlton Investments LLC has amended or

[14:20] has proposed an amendment to section 5

[14:22] A10 of this agreement to delete in its

[14:25] entirety and replace with the following.

[14:28] The company shall have the right to

[14:29] dispute any community impact fee

[14:31] itemized in municipalities invoice for

[14:34] the licensed year. Companies shall

[14:36] annually pay any undisputed CIF no later

[14:39] than the date of the current current

[14:41] fiscal year or within 90 days of the

[14:42] date of the commission CF certification.

[14:44] Whatever is later

[14:46] is reviewed this amendment and would

[14:48] recommend the board approve.

[14:51] >> Do I have a motion? The motion to

[14:53] approve as written.

[14:55] >> Second.

[14:56] >> All in favor?

[15:04] We are at 6:44. I have a feeling the f

[15:07] camera would probably last a little

[15:10] longer than one minute.

[15:12] >> All right.

[15:12] >> You might want to

[15:14] >> we'll start the 6:45.

[15:16] >> All right. 6:45 meeting with finance

[15:18] committee finalized special town meeting

[15:20] warrant and motions and select board to

[15:22] close the special town meeting warrant.

[15:25] site board is scheduled to review and

[15:27] finalize the special time meeting

[15:28] warrant and motions with finance

[15:29] committee. The board will also need to

[15:31] close the warrant so our office can post

[15:32] it with the town clerk by October 1st.

[15:35] Uh just an outline of each article that

[15:38] was received. So uh article one

[15:40] appropriation of funds uh for unpaid

[15:43] bills of a prior fiscal year. Article

[15:46] two interdep departmental transfers and

[15:48] appropriations for FY27 budget. Article

[15:51] three, amendments to the FY2027 budget.

[15:54] Article four, miscellaneous capital

[15:56] items and related contracts. Article

[15:58] five, we have in here right now, new

[16:00] senior center design phase. I'll leave

[16:02] it up to the board if you want to make

[16:04] any amendments to that. Um, article

[16:06] seven, amend general laws, general

[16:09] bylaws, chapter 110, animal control.

[16:11] Article eight, amend general bylaws

[16:13] chapter 155, licenses and permits.

[16:16] Article 9, except Mass General Law,

[16:18] Chapter 138, Section 33B, sales of

[16:20] alcoholic beverage licenses by on

[16:22] premise licenses on Sundays and legal

[16:24] holidays with sales between 10:00 a.m.

[16:26] and 12 noon. Article 10, acceptance of

[16:30] Ashley Road and Amber Road as public

[16:32] ways. Art and then articles 11 through

[16:36] 14 are zoning amendments to be

[16:38] recommended by the planning board. And

[16:40] article 15 is the citizens petition um

[16:43] non-binding related to automated license

[16:46] plate reader surveillance. So you're to

[16:49] go through each one of these with the

[16:51] finance committee this evening and

[16:52] provide your recommendation after

[16:54] closing the

[16:55] >> after closing. So I would I would um

[16:58] accept a motion to close the warrant.

[17:03] » Do we close it before? You want to close

[17:06] the warrant so no new articles can come

[17:09] in. You can now make changes to the

[17:11] warrant

[17:12] >> warrant to remove or approve the mask.

[17:14] Okay. So I move to close the warrant as

[17:17] written.

[17:17] >> Second.

[17:18] >> All in favor?

[17:19] >> I the warrant is closed.

[17:26] » How do we want to handle the

[17:27] appropriation of funds to Well, actually

[17:30] the finance committee has to open their

[17:31] meeting.

[17:32] >> Yes.

[17:34] So I will call a meeting to uh the

[17:37] finance committee to order at 6:45

[17:41] and we have quum.

[17:43] >> Okay. So we

[17:46] >> welcome [laughter]

[17:48] to good to see you.

[17:51] >> All right. So article one is

[17:53] appropriation of funds for bill for

[17:55] funds for unpaid bills of a prior fiscal

[17:57] year. We had three I'm sorry if we had

[18:00] four. Three of them were water sewer

[18:02] maintenance uh bills to Violia. We had

[18:04] one um municipal offices and expense

[18:07] equipment for Worcester elevator.

[18:14] » So if we get started I will entertain a

[18:17] motion that the finance committee

[18:19] support article one as presented.

[18:22] >> I'll make a motion.

[18:22] >> I have a motion. Second.

[18:24] >> I have a second. Any discussion?

[18:27] Ray. All in favor say yes.

[18:30] >> Yes.

[18:31] >> Unanimous.

[18:32] >> Roll call vote because of Zoom or

[18:34] >> Yeah.

[18:35] >> Ray. Yes or no?

[18:37] >> Yes. Ray. Yeah. Thank you.

[18:41] And I would accept a motion from the

[18:43] board to accept article one to support

[18:47] article one.

[18:49] >> I move to support article one as

[18:50] written.

[18:51] >> Second.

[18:52] >> All in favor? I.

[18:54] >> Unanimous.

[18:56] All right. Article article two for

[18:58] interdep departmental transfers and or

[19:01] appropriations for the FY27 budget. We

[19:03] propose no changes to the FY27 budget.

[19:06] So the recommendation is to pass over

[19:08] this article indefinitely.

[19:10] >> I'll make a motion that the finance

[19:12] committee supports article two.

[19:14] >> Second.

[19:15] >> All in favor say yes.

[19:18] >> Yes. Ready? Say yes. Right.

[19:21] >> Yes.

[19:24] And I would I would accept a me a motion

[19:27] from our board for article.

[19:30] >> I move to um support the article two as

[19:33] written.

[19:35] >> Second.

[19:36] >> All in favor?

[19:37] >> I

[19:41] article three would be amendments to the

[19:42] FY2027 budget. Um again, we are

[19:45] proposing no additional changes to the

[19:47] FY27 [snorts]

[19:49] budget uh for taxation increases.

[19:54] So pass over pass over the article

[19:56] indefinitely. Sorry.

[19:57] >> Okay. You're going to pass over. So do

[19:59] we really need to take a vote of

[20:00] support?

[20:02] >> Recommend. You recommended.

[20:03] >> Recommend that we pass over.

[20:05] >> All right. I'll entertain a motion that

[20:06] we pass over article three.

[20:12] » Second.

[20:14] >> All those in favor say I. Say yes. Ray.

[20:17] >> Yes.

[20:18] >> Unanimous.

[20:19] >> Now this was sponsored by the finance

[20:21] comm. Do we need to take a vote on that

[20:23] as well?

[20:23] >> Yes,

[20:24] >> we do. Okay.

[20:26] >> I would accept a motion

[20:28] >> to pass over on article

[20:30] >> three.

[20:32] >> I'll make that motion to pass over in

[20:33] article three.

[20:34] >> Second.

[20:35] >> All in favor?

[20:36] >> I.

[20:38] >> All right. Article four being

[20:40] miscellaneous capital items and related

[20:41] contracts. We break this into uh four

[20:44] separate motions. Uh motion one [snorts]

[20:47] is the general government side. So, it

[20:50] is $50,000 for grant match and planning

[20:53] funds for the select board, $15,000 for

[20:56] a hydraulic hydraulic and hydronic

[20:59] analysis of South Charleton reservoir

[21:01] from the conservation commission,

[21:03] $50,000 for municipal building

[21:05] improvements,

[21:07] um $80,000 for technology replacements

[21:09] and improvements, and $40,000 to the

[21:12] library for floor carpeting replacement.

[21:14] That would be motion one.

[21:17] Do we have a recommendation of the

[21:19] finance committee?

[21:21] >> Finance committee. I'll entertain a

[21:23] motion. We support article 4 as written.

[21:26] >> We make a motion. Finance committee

[21:28] supports article 4 motion one.

[21:30] >> Second.

[21:31] >> I have a second. Any discussion?

[21:34] There being none. All those in favor say

[21:36] yes.

[21:36] >> Yes.

[21:36] >> Ray.

[21:37] >> Yes.

[21:38] >> Unanimous.

[21:39] >> Okay. And select board on the same

[21:43] motion on the article. I move to support

[21:46] motion one article 4 as written.

[21:50] >> Second

[21:51] motion in a second. All in favor?

[21:54] >> I

[21:56] motion.

[21:57] >> Motion two is police items. Uh the only

[22:00] item for this year are our annual

[22:02] cruiser replacements in the amount of

[22:04] $275,000.

[22:08] I'll entertain a motion that finance

[22:11] committee recommends motion two of

[22:15] article 4. I guess we got to get that

[22:16] specific.

[22:18] >> I motion.

[22:18] >> I have a motion. I have a second. Any

[22:21] discussion?

[22:22] There being none, all those in favor say

[22:24] yes.

[22:25] >> Yes.

[22:26] It's unanimous.

[22:30] » Okay. And the board of selectment on

[22:32] motion two of article four.

[22:36] I move to support article 4, motion two

[22:38] as written.

[22:39] >> Second.

[22:40] >> All in favor?

[22:42] >> I

[22:44] motion three.

[22:45] >> Yep. Motion three are items related to

[22:47] the fire department. Uh three items on

[22:50] the list for this year. An F350 pickup

[22:52] truck support vehicle in the amount of

[22:54] 110,000.

[22:56] uh $100,000 for the refurbishment of

[22:58] Forestry 1 and 61,000 from ambulance

[23:03] receipts reserved from appropriation for

[23:05] the purchase of a life pack for the EMS

[23:07] car.

[23:12] » I'll make a motion that the finance

[23:13] committee supports motion three, article

[23:16] 4.

[23:17] >> Second.

[23:17] >> Have a motion and a second. Any

[23:19] discussion? There being none, all those

[23:22] in favor say yes.

[23:24] >> Yes.

[23:24] Ready?

[23:25] >> Yes.

[23:27] >> Unanimous.

[23:30] » Okay. And for the select board on

[23:32] article four, motion three.

[23:36] >> Make a motion that we support.

[23:38] >> Second.

[23:40] >> All in favor?

[23:41] >> I.

[23:43] >> Right. The last one out of this was

[23:44] motion four. These are items related to

[23:46] um DPW, highway, cemetery, and sewer. So

[23:52] um we have

[23:55] $140,000 to the highway division for an

[23:58] F350 utility bucket lift pickup.

[24:01] $300,000 for an excav excavator with a

[24:05] rotary mower for the highway division.

[24:08] $50,000 for a replacement wood chipper

[24:11] for the highway division. $24,000

[24:14] for cemetery road paving for the

[24:16] cemetery division. $8,000 for K Cabota

[24:20] accessories for the DPWs uh or for the

[24:23] cemetery division and $25,000 for office

[24:27] renovations from the sewer retained

[24:30] earnings for the sewer division.

[24:34] >> Entertain a motion that the finance

[24:35] committee support motion four of article

[24:38] 4.

[24:39] >> Motion.

[24:39] >> I have a motion. I have a second. Any

[24:42] discussion? There being none, all those

[24:44] in favor say yes.

[24:45] >> Yes.

[24:46] >> Ray. Yes,

[24:48] >> unanimous.

[24:50] >> Okay. And for the select board, we have

[24:52] a motion on article motion four on

[24:54] article four.

[24:56] >> I move to support article four option um

[25:00] motion four as written.

[25:03] >> Second.

[25:05] >> All in favor?

[25:06] >> I

[25:10] article five tried to take direction of

[25:11] the board as to the appropriate way to

[25:15] craft the wording for this one. So

[25:16] please tell me if you want to make any

[25:18] changes before posting. But

[25:20] >> no, sorry.

[25:22] >> Sorry. Art five as listed right now.

[25:28] » Is uh new senior center and police

[25:30] department parking expansion design

[25:32] phase. Uh essentially this is a motion

[25:34] to appropriate $500,000 from available

[25:37] free cash to the stated purpose

[25:42] >> through the chair. Regarding the name

[25:44] that was brought up, I would like to

[25:45] suggest to avoid confusion and to be

[25:48] consistent that we insert the word

[25:51] community after

[25:53] senior. So it would be the new senior

[25:56] community center design phase. Uh this

[25:58] is consistent with what the committee

[26:00] was the select board um appointed many

[26:03] years ago. Um and it's what the chairman

[26:08] mentioned earlier today. It would be

[26:11] their preference to call it. There's

[26:13] enough confusion out there already.

[26:15] >> Yeah.

[26:15] >> So you're suggesting on under article

[26:17] five under a new senior center just the

[26:20] verbat

[26:21] >> senior community

[26:22] >> senior right here center.

[26:24] >> That's what that was the name of this

[26:25] feasibility study that

[26:27] >> actually wasn't actually wasn't the name

[26:29] of the original.

[26:30] >> No.

[26:31] it was the activity center.

[26:34] community.

[26:35] >> It's semantics, but we have an activity

[26:36] center.

[26:37] >> But it's so but but it that's what's the

[26:39] committee was called. But people need to

[26:42] know and I I do I do want to point out

[26:44] too this is just to reference the

[26:46] project. At the end of the day down the

[26:48] road it may not be called, you know, who

[26:51] knows what it's going to be called. We

[26:52] know it's going to be primarily for

[26:53] seniors, but they they have new names

[26:56] for our senior centers now. So that's up

[26:57] to you. Typically, it's up to the

[26:59] building committee or but this is just

[27:02] so when we're referencing the project,

[27:03] it people understand it's senior

[27:07] community senior center.

[27:09] >> Yeah. I think it

[27:10] >> it's housekeeping really.

[27:11] >> Yeah.

[27:12] >> I think my only concern and maybe I I

[27:15] can probably be persuaded on that is is

[27:18] who has jurisdiction over the use of the

[27:21] building. If is is it the community or

[27:25] is it the council on aging that that

[27:26] says when you can use it or

[27:28] >> again this is this is just and the chair

[27:31] can correct me if I'm wrong but this is

[27:32] just to reference it to get the point

[27:34] across that there is in the design by

[27:37] Lero there is a space for the community

[27:40] much like the library we all know the

[27:42] library is the library but it has a

[27:44] space for a community to use off hours

[27:47] etc and of course we all know down the

[27:49] road that comes with policy development

[27:51] but the design um that was paid for by

[27:55] the citizens of the town as that

[27:57] community space. So, we just want to

[27:59] make sure we're being transparent. Um

[28:01] and it it honestly we need to avoid

[28:04] confusion because people are confused

[28:06] enough about

[28:06] >> I think that's I think that's why I

[28:08] asked the question.

[28:09] >> Yeah,

[28:10] >> it's a housekeeping item. Yeah.

[28:15] Is

[28:18] as far as the design of the building,

[28:21] >> people are going to ask what are you

[28:23] what do you want to build there? I mean,

[28:25] when when the chair came up in open

[28:29] form, she said it was um you still had

[28:31] multiple options. You were still looking

[28:33] at

[28:36] >> not now.

[28:52] project

[28:58] » senior community visibility

[28:59] >> on Masonic home we're only talking

[29:02] Masonic home road

[29:04] >> no I'm asking the question have you guys

[29:06] has has the committee voted on that

[29:09] >> yeah it says it right here

[29:14] » well and in article five through the

[29:15] chair it says a new senior center to be

[29:18] located on Masonic Home Road. So,

[29:20] >> no one's debating that. It's just what

[29:22] we're going to reference it to avoid

[29:23] confusion in the community. That's

[29:25] >> Well, no, but in her opening in her

[29:26] opening, she said there were three

[29:28] options. So, two options.

[29:30] >> That's what the project,

[29:32] >> right?

[29:33] >> And one of them was a new

[29:36] project

[29:38] new build.

[29:40] And and I believe the chair was was just

[29:43] reminding people that the money was

[29:46] spent and what it was spent on versus

[29:47] because people there's you know well

[29:49] they starting from scratch again.

[29:50] >> What it was what it was spent on was for

[29:55] a feasibility study to see if furniture

[29:58] was suitable for

[29:59] >> No, actually we have to we actually have

[30:02] a design of the building at the inside

[30:04] but the layout

[30:05] >> it was spent on three options.

[30:07] >> Yeah. three options actually for through

[30:09] the chair and I don't know if you want

[30:10] to just because you can

[30:13] >> it was it was a comparative analysis of retrofitting that building to what a

[30:17] new a new construction would be

[30:21] >> different taking yeah new construction

[30:24] >> so this so this $500,000 that we're

[30:26] talking about would go towards

[30:29] that original plan

[30:32] >> no it's

[30:34] >> whichever one

[30:36] >> so we

[30:37] I I'm I'm more I'm driving down more to

[30:39] one square footage.

[30:41] >> Yeah. And I guess my question is so when

[30:42] are we so we want to push this this

[30:44] through without knowing

[30:48] where we going to appropriate that

[30:49] 500,000 either or

[30:51] >> it says through the chair it says the

[30:53] article actually states construction of

[30:56] a new senior center to be located on

[30:58] Masonic home road right

[30:59] >> and additional parking for police

[31:01] departments. So what's the question?

[31:03] >> So no so this is are we sure on this? So

[31:05] why would Bringing up two different

[31:07] options is where I'm confused. So I just

[31:09] eliminate. So we already eliminating the

[31:11] other option of the furniture store and

[31:13] we just going with the option on the

[31:15] Masonic.

[31:16] >> Okay. Because that is what I was

[31:17] confused because we keep bringing the

[31:19] two options and this and another.

[31:20] >> People didn't understand what the money

[31:22] was spent on. Right. So

[31:24] >> okay, that's what it is. Okay.

[31:25] >> That's all. That's all.

[31:28] >> Okay. So then so so then with what

[31:29] you're saying Karen then we will also

[31:31] change that verbiage here. the new

[31:33] senior center police department parking

[31:35] extension. Right?

[31:36] >> So I I guess I would make a motion if

[31:38] the chair is okay with this that we

[31:40] insert the word that article five should

[31:42] read new senior and we insert the word

[31:45] community center and then and police

[31:47] department parking expansion design

[31:49] phase. That's that's all that's all

[31:51] we're looking

[31:51] >> in both in both places

[31:52] >> just for the word change.

[31:53] >> Yeah, that's it.

[31:54] >> Not not to do with the article.

[31:57] >> I agree. Yeah, that makes it much

[31:59] >> Would you like to second that?

[32:01] >> I second.

[32:02] >> Okay. All in favor?

[32:03] >> I through semantics. [clears throat]

[32:07] » Favor.

[32:08] >> Do you have a square footage in mind?

[32:12] Because the town meeting is going to ask

[32:14] that.

[32:15] >> But that's not that's not important

[32:17] tonight.

[32:18] >> What's that?

[32:18] >> I don't think that's important tonight.

[32:21] >> Lots of lots of information will be

[32:23] coming out, but to to the chair of the

[32:26] finance committee.

[32:27] >> So, is it my understanding you've

[32:28] changed the you've added the word?

[32:30] That's the new amended motion.

[32:32] >> Okay.

[32:33] >> Then I will entertain a motion that the

[32:37] finance committee support article 5 as

[32:39] amended.

[32:43] » Motion. I have a second. Any discussion?

[32:47] There being none, all those in favor say

[32:49] yes.

[32:50] >> Ray,

[32:51] >> yes.

[32:52] >> It's unanimous. Okay.

[32:56] And I would for the chair I would make

[32:58] the motion that the select board

[33:00] supports article five as amended

[33:09] » just for design phase

[33:11] >> for for appropriation of that 500,000.

[33:14] So that was a place the placeholder that

[33:16] was a holder right that we were holding

[33:18] that one for the article five.

[33:20] >> So yeah. So what do we have to think

[33:21] about if you want to

[33:23] >> you have an open motion?

[33:27] >> Can I have a second for dis second for

[33:29] discussion?

[33:30] >> Have a second for discussion.

[33:32] >> I just want to clarify. Second for

[33:33] discussion.

[33:34] >> Yeah.

[33:34] >> So this is that was that's what we're

[33:36] holding. So now just so we're on the

[33:38] same page. So if we support this motion,

[33:41] we supporting the appropriation of of

[33:43] half a million dollars going

[33:45] specifically with a name change to the

[33:48] uh Masonic home. [clears throat]

[33:51] And it would be for the senior community

[33:53] center and police department parking

[33:55] expansion.

[33:56] >> And that is how it's going to be

[33:57] advertised and the t-shirts and

[33:59] everything. It's going to go to both.

[34:01] >> Well, we can't the t-shirt.

[34:02] >> I'm just making I'm being I'm being

[34:03] sarcastic, but you know what I mean.

[34:05] It's not that you're trying to make it

[34:07] sound better for us. So, this is going

[34:10] to be everywhere on the on the on the

[34:11] website, how you going to promote it and

[34:13] everything else in in between.

[34:15] >> I Yeah. Okay.

[34:20] Yeah. So, let's do a motion. That's

[34:23] >> So, this is basically picking up where

[34:25] the other left off. We're not starting

[34:26] from scratch. And that's what's

[34:28] important.

[34:30] >> You're not starting from scratch, but

[34:31] town meeting is going to ask the

[34:33] committee how big of a building you

[34:35] >> Yes. And you have they have and remember

[34:37] town meeting approved town meeting

[34:39] approved the $50,000 to get to this

[34:42] point. And we don't want to stall at

[34:44] this point because that would be going

[34:46] against what town meeting wanted us to

[34:48] do. And now we're going to put it before

[34:49] the voters of the town to see if they

[34:51] want to put the bill because they're the

[34:53] taxpayers. They're the ones that going

[34:54] to be voting the bill. So I don't see a

[34:57] problem letting democracy happen, but

[34:59] they'll have all the answers. I know the

[35:01] committee's got lots of information

[35:02] coming out.

[35:03] >> I I I'm um I'm a little stuck on this

[35:06] one.

[35:07] >> Well, by I'm I'm a little stuck on it

[35:10] only for the We don't know

[35:13] You still have to have an idea of what

[35:15] the the total cost of a building would

[35:17] be. And if we can only use square

[35:19] footage like that, how big of a building

[35:21] is someone's going to ask that

[35:22] >> through the chair that the the design if

[35:24] you looked at it is there and we did

[35:27] Andrew did great work projecting the

[35:30] cost and the time,000 square feet. It's

[35:32] the Lero project.

[35:41] because you can take that and move it.

[35:44] >> Andrew's options, the four options that

[35:46] he had for numbers.

[35:48] >> So the so then you're at 850 square

[35:51] feet.

[35:52] >> I'll note that this is on the basis of

[35:55] the design. Obviously by appropriating

[35:57] funds, you still have to hire a a

[35:59] owner's project manager and you have to

[36:00] hire an architect. Once you bring those

[36:02] on board, you can make you can

[36:05] essentially direct and work with them to

[36:07] determine what is the appropriate size

[36:09] either based off the feasibility or how

[36:11] much you know the the town potentially

[36:14] wants to pay for a building like this.

[36:16] So it may dictate that a smaller

[36:19] building is what is [snorts] necessary

[36:21] to pass muster.

[36:23] >> But we got to put it we got to we got to

[36:25] put it before the taxpayers to see what

[36:28] they want to do. What who are we to sit

[36:31] here and say I guess we could go and say

[36:33] you're not going to re you can not

[36:35] recommend it but I mean to me to not

[36:38] support it doesn't make a lot of sense

[36:40] because

[36:41] >> the taxpayers voted at town meeting to

[36:43] get us to this phase.

[36:45] >> No no it's like

[36:46] >> they voted on 50,000

[36:48] >> correct but not to throw it not to throw

[36:50] it out the window but to get

[36:52] >> this is this is to this is a completely

[36:54] different project.

[36:57] No, it's not.

[36:58] >> It's in a different

[36:59] >> It's the second phase of the of the

[37:01] first 50,000 miss.

[37:03] >> That's the way I look at it.

[37:05] >> This is how things progress.

[37:13] » Um yes, sure.

[37:15] >> Exactly the way the library was.

[37:18] You had a feasibility study and then you

[37:20] had a design process. design process was

[37:23] with the architect to come up with a

[37:27] design that was appropriate.

[37:31] And so what you're doing is you're

[37:32] asking them to move forward to get a

[37:35] design using 500,000. Is that what I'm

[37:39] hearing?

[37:40] >> Right. Okay. And after that, we came

[37:43] back and asked the town for money based

[37:46] on the design that was presented.

[37:50] >> The town agreed. Yeah, I understand

[37:53] that. But this is But I'm also hearing

[37:55] the conflict that the design is already

[37:57] done. You're using the same design that

[37:59] was done.

[38:01] >> So it's 11,000 ft is what you're shoot

[38:03] it. It it you know what it's

[38:05] >> if we spend 15 minutes here is we could

[38:08] probably save an hour town meeting

[38:10] because people are going to have a lot

[38:11] of questions. What

[38:12] >> they're going to get answers, Steve.

[38:14] This is this is democracy. The town has

[38:16] spent a half a million dollars before on

[38:19] designs that have never been used.

[38:21] Actually, we spent 900.

[38:22] >> That's the town's decision. That's

[38:24] ultimately, look what happened with the

[38:26] public safety building. They ultimately

[38:27] decided not to.

[38:28] >> But we bring it forward. Yeah. Look at

[38:29] what happened. You're right. And we have

[38:32] $900,000 worth of plans sitting on a

[38:34] self on a shelf collecting dust.

[38:37] >> So, you're saying you think you know

[38:38] better than the taxpayers of this town

[38:40] that you're not going to give them the

[38:41] opportunity to Oh, you actually This is

[38:43] just a recommendation. We're rushing

[38:45] this to the point, why can't we just

[38:49] >> Well, you know, you could laugh all you

[38:51] want, but but it wasn't it wasn't the

[38:55] board that kept going back to Charlton

[38:58] Furniture for three years. It was the

[39:00] committee.

[39:01] >> Just point of order. This is not what we

[39:04] should be discussing. It should be

[39:06] >> do we support it because it's on the

[39:08] warrant now, but do because we closed

[39:09] it, but do we support make the

[39:11] recommendation or not? And then we let

[39:13] the people

[39:13] >> Okay. We closed it, but this is just a

[39:15] place. This is just a holder. So, we can

[39:17] remove it just as easy. This is not the

[39:19] one. I'm just saying technically

[39:20] speaking.

[39:22] >> You think that's the

[39:23] >> I can All right. Maybe Maybe we thinking

[39:29] >> to move something forward.

[39:32] >> No, we're going to either move it or we

[39:33] don't want to move it. Support it and

[39:35] move it.

[39:36] >> Okay.

[39:36] Karen, you want to do the option?

[39:37] You do the motion. There's a

[39:38] >> question. I'm we already I already

[39:40] >> I just I just thought that the purpose

[39:42] of tonight's meeting was for this board

[39:44] to bring forth something to the

[39:46] community to make a vote on. And so

[39:48] you're not not necessarily voting as a

[39:50] individual in this town to say you

[39:53] support spending $500,000 in this way.

[39:56] From my perspective, you're voting to

[39:58] say we are going to bring it to the town

[40:00] meeting and let the citizens decide. And

[40:03] so I think that some of the questions

[40:05] you have are very valid, but for town

[40:07] meeting night and not for this time

[40:09] right now.

[40:10] >> Absolutely.

[40:11] >> Yes.

[40:12] >> I think the first question you're going

[40:14] to come up with is

[40:16] >> But is that tonight's question?

[40:18] >> Well, if if

[40:19] >> there's going to be lots of questions

[40:20] you probably didn't even think of and

[40:21] they're all good ones.

[40:22] >> Oh, no. I thought about this quite a

[40:23] bit.

[40:26] >> I've had, you know, multiple years to

[40:28] think about it. Well, I just hope that

[40:31] people will come to the town meeting and

[40:32] they can be educated on it at the town

[40:34] meeting and they can make the educated

[40:36] choice.

[40:36] >> And that's that's the process that the

[40:38] people love and we know from former

[40:40] master plans that were done that when we

[40:42] looked into getting rid of town meeting

[40:44] and going to a different form of

[40:46] government that this is what the people

[40:48] this is like number one. Let us we like

[40:50] the fact we can get on the town floor

[40:52] and have these have these discussions.

[40:54] It's it's it's the process they never

[40:56] want to at that time they didn't want to

[40:58] get rid of.

[40:59] >> Okay. So again, I don't think any of us

[41:01] for five member board can sit here and

[41:03] say

[41:03] >> the risk the committee has here is not

[41:06] giving enough information to town

[41:08] meeting voters to make a decision and

[41:10] you get shot down.

[41:12] >> That's a risk.

[41:13] >> Then you get shot down,

[41:14] >> right? That's okay. You get shot down

[41:16] and that's right. Then they can vote.

[41:17] But you're not going to get those

[41:18] >> make your case against it. It's okay.

[41:20] >> Oh, I'm David. This is

[41:22] >> Yeah, but if I but if I make my case

[41:24] against it at town meeting and I say

[41:26] yes, here I'm a little bit hypocritical.

[41:27] Well, then don't re vote to not

[41:29] recommend it, but leave the article.

[41:31] Please let the let let the article stay

[41:34] and vote not to re

[41:36] >> But I agree with them what Jamie said.

[41:39] But um yeah, let we're all entitled to

[41:41] our opinions, but to block this from the voters. And I will remind you,

[41:44] >> you know what? If if if there was if if this is what we maybe

[41:51] can we change the wording on this a

[41:54] little bit

[41:55] >> to what

[41:56] >> to to $500,000 to help

[42:00] facilitate a design that will fit on

[42:02] that space.

[42:04] >> That's what it is.

[42:06] >> This is No, but I'm hearing But I'm

[42:08] hearing But you just said the design is

[42:09] already done.

[42:13] So Steve, which is through you, which is

[42:16] good because the layout is done. So some

[42:18] of that 50,000, let's hope, was spent in

[42:21] the right way. So we, that's my

[42:23] understanding, we can take those plans

[42:25] that we already spend the money on and

[42:27] hopefully use it to elaborate on it, do

[42:31] more study and see if that fits in our

[42:34] land on Masonic

[42:36] >> and like like but this is the next

[42:37] phase. So, I would make a motion that we we support we we support the rec that

[42:43] this article as

[42:45] >> presented with well as amended. I

[42:47] already did that, didn't I?

[42:49] >> And we had a second. Yeah. Okay. Sorry.

[42:52] >> We've amended with the community center

[42:54] next

[42:54] >> and all this does and then just as a

[42:56] reminder, all this does is get it to the

[42:58] people and the debate can happen and

[43:00] then you

[43:01] >> Yeah, that's

[43:03] >> I I don't believe anybody seconded it

[43:05] though. Yes,

[43:06] >> I second this and I said it and I go to

[43:08] what Karen said and this is my

[43:11] understanding that one of the

[43:13] >> most important jobs of select board in

[43:17] my opinion is to put hold and let

[43:20] through the warrant articles for that

[43:23] specific reason.

[43:25] So yes, is a democratic way of some Yes,

[43:29] that's one explanation. What I think and

[43:30] I'm not going to put words in your in

[43:32] you Steve, but what he's thinking that

[43:34] yes, this is our right to not to vote it

[43:37] in. So I want to be clear that this is

[43:39] not that we must to put it on the

[43:41] warrant. We can take it out because

[43:44] that's

[43:46] part of our responsibilities if we don't

[43:49] see it fit. So let's just clarify this.

[43:51] Now Karen made a motion to put this

[43:55] article five on the Warren

[43:58] amended adding

[44:00] >> the community center to the senior

[44:01] center.

[44:02] >> I made a motion to recommend it. It was

[44:04] to to to support

[44:05] >> to support it But you supported it

[44:07] amended. So should Right. So we were

[44:10] supporting amendment.

[44:10] >> That was for the wording change.

[44:11] >> The word it was for the wording change

[44:13] but then we so we had to say we support

[44:15] as

[44:15] >> so that's very clear. So now the motion

[44:17] on at the table is to support article

[44:21] five

[44:22] >> as amended.

[44:23] >> And through the chair the last thing I

[44:25] will say just just a general reminder if

[44:28] you look at our organizational chart the

[44:30] citizens you are at the top we are at

[44:33] the next line.

[44:34] >> Correct.

[44:35] >> So you know we want we want those same

[44:37] citizens will might say how can you

[44:40] bring something in front of us if you

[44:41] don't even know how big it is. Well, we

[44:43] can

[44:45] >> we will address

[44:46] >> we will this will all get addressed and

[44:48] there'll be other questions you didn't

[44:49] even think of

[44:50] >> and and it gets addressed, but then the

[44:52] risk is is wasting $500,000.

[44:54] >> But it's up to the people to decide if

[44:56] they're going to do it. Are you are you

[44:58] I don't understand you're wanting to

[45:01] block this from the people who are going

[45:04] to be actually footing the bill. You

[45:06] want to don't you want to ask them? You

[45:08] think you want to?

[45:09] >> So So then so then what what should be included in this. What should

[45:14] be included in here is that you want to

[45:16] take the design, the Lero design from

[45:18] Charlton Furniture and move that layout

[45:20] to this spot, this site.

[45:22] >> That's that's what you're asking.

[45:24] >> No, doesn't matter.

[45:25] >> That that is No, but that that's what

[45:26] you just said. You said the design is

[45:28] done.

[45:29] >> No, the point when there was confusion

[45:31] when the chair of the feasibility study

[45:33] came up

[45:35] >> why she had mentioned all the other

[45:36] options just to let the people know how

[45:38] that $50,000 was spent. That was the

[45:41] purpose of saying of all of that. We

[45:44] wanted folks to know the citizens to

[45:46] know that the money that they approved

[45:48] at that last town meeting where it went

[45:50] and it wasn't wasted and this isn't

[45:52] starting from scratch. So they can take

[45:54] that and now it's time to tweak it and

[45:56] get fine-tuned and get the do the

[45:58] dollars

[45:59] >> and there's they have huge P publicity

[46:02] coming out all kinds of FAQs. So let the

[46:05] process happen. I mean not to so that's where we are now and

[46:11] >> so we just want to hope that at the town

[46:14] meeting there will be people there who

[46:16] both support the expenditure for the

[46:19] senior center and the people that might

[46:21] not but that's up to these people to

[46:24] decide okay

[46:25] >> you know if we if it's going to I'm with

[46:28] you on this

[46:28] >> I I will ask um I'll I'll support this

[46:31] to get put on the um

[46:34] on the town meeting as a town

[46:36] But I'm going to take the floor and I'm

[46:38] going to ask some questions.

[46:38] >> That's right.

[46:39] >> And hope you ask come to open house.

[46:41] >> How big is it going to be? What is it 11

[46:43] million? Is it 14 million? I don't think

[46:45] >> we encourage they encourage questions

[46:46] and I keep saying that because I'm the

[46:48] non- voting member on the advisory. So,

[46:50] but thank you.

[46:51] >> Yeah.

[46:51] >> Can we vote now?

[46:52] >> Yes.

[46:53] >> So, motion is second.

[46:55] >> Um, all in favor? I I

[46:58] >> I

[47:04] » have a hard time with the two.

[47:06] >> Yeah, I am. Well, obviously I am too

[47:09] >> because the Yeah, I can't change my

[47:15] » I

[47:18] » thank you.

[47:22] » Moving on to article six.

[47:25] This is for transfer to and from

[47:27] stabilization funds. Um our

[47:30] recommendation on this one is $100,000

[47:33] from free cash to the general

[47:34] stabilization fund to maintain our

[47:37] stabilization fund according to reserve

[47:39] policy. Um $50,000 to the capital

[47:43] stabilization fund for the same purpose.

[47:47] uh $1 million from retained or sewer

[47:50] retained earnings to the sewer

[47:51] stabilization fund and $400,000 from the

[47:55] water retained earnings water

[47:57] stabilization fund.

[48:01] >> All right. I'll entertain a motion that

[48:03] the finance committee support article 6

[48:05] as presented.

[48:07] >> Motion.

[48:07] >> I have a motion. I have a second. Any

[48:09] discussion?

[48:12] There being none, all those in favor say

[48:13] yes.

[48:14] >> Yes. I

[48:16] >> it's unanimous

[48:19] » and a motion from the board for article

[48:22] six.

[48:23] >> I move that um the select board supports

[48:25] recommends article six as presented.

[48:28] >> Second.

[48:29] >> All in favor?

[48:30] >> I I

[48:33] >> All right. Article seven to amend

[48:35] general bylaws chapter 110 animal

[48:37] control. Essentially, this is the um

[48:40] board's request to add in a u Z license

[48:46] fee for seniors and create a new

[48:49] exemption for veterans. Uh we did

[48:51] receive uh some feedback from legal

[48:54] counsel related to um the original way

[48:57] that you guys had proposed the motion.

[48:59] They noted that because it is not an

[49:02] exemption under chapter M or MGL chapter

[49:05] 140 section 139 that there needs to be a

[49:09] delta between the fee for um an intact

[49:13] dog versus a spade and neutered dog. So

[49:17] we can't do zero on both on both of

[49:19] them. So there has to be some type of

[49:21] fee for uh the senior citizen class and

[49:25] the veteran class. So, I don't know if

[49:27] you guys have any recommendations for

[49:29] that.

[49:34] » Andrew, do you have a recommendation for

[49:35] that? To make it $5 and zero or

[49:38] >> that was a recommendation that I had

[49:40] received from member not here this

[49:41] evening. So,

[49:43] >> okay.

[49:45] >> To amend as five

[49:47] >> to Yeah.

[49:47] >> Okay. $5 for intact and zero for Okay.

[49:52] >> A motion and a second.

[49:56] Did we get a second?

[49:57] >> Second.

[49:58] >> All in favor?

[49:58] >> I

[50:02] unanimous.

[50:08] » I I will entertain a motion that we the

[50:11] finance committee supports article 7 as

[50:13] amended.

[50:14] >> Motion.

[50:15] >> Second.

[50:16] >> Motion. I have a second. Any discussion?

[50:19] >> There being none, all those in favor say

[50:21] yes.

[50:21] >> Yes.

[50:22] >> Ray.

[50:23] >> Yes. Yes, it's unanimous.

[50:30] » You guys take a motion on

[50:32] recommendation.

[50:34] >> Oh, a motion on a recommendation. Do I

[50:37] hear one?

[50:38] >> Second.

[50:42] » I I move to

[50:43] >> Do I have a second?

[50:44] >> Second.

[50:45] >> All in favor?

[50:46] >> I

[50:47] >> All right. Article A is to amend general

[50:49] bylaw chapter 155 of licenses and

[50:53] permits. Uh this is actually requested

[50:54] through the building commissioner. This

[50:56] is just a mod uh to meet current master

[51:00] law related to delinquent tax uh pair

[51:03] and withholding of permits. Um it just

[51:06] adds in uh so currently the statute says

[51:09] the collector shall annually furnish and

[51:11] we're adding an inmate periodically and

[51:14] then striking out the language for not

[51:17] less than a 12 month period as it

[51:19] relates to uh look bad period. This is

[51:23] just to comply with current state law.

[51:30] » I'll entertain a motion that the finance

[51:31] committee support article 8 as

[51:33] presented. I'll make a motion.

[51:35] >> I have a motion. I have a second. Any

[51:38] discussion?

[51:39] >> There being none, all those in favor say

[51:41] yes.

[51:44] >> Unanimous.

[51:47] » And motion from the board.

[51:49] >> I move to support article 8 as written.

[51:54] >> A second.

[51:55] >> Second. All in favor?

[51:57] >> I.

[52:00] Article nine is to accept Mass General

[52:02] law chapter 138 section 33B uh sales for

[52:06] alcoholic beverages on premise license

[52:08] on Sundays in certain legal holidays.

[52:11] Um, essentially what this does is allow

[52:13] the local licensing authority, aka the

[52:16] select board, to um issue the the

[52:20] allowed times for opening on Sundays to

[52:22] go back to 10:00 a.m. Currently, without

[52:26] acceptance of the statute, noon is the

[52:28] earliest time. Believe there's currently

[52:30] legislation on the or not. There's

[52:32] currently a bill before the House right

[52:34] now, it's being considered that any town

[52:35] that accept the accepts this may go back

[52:38] to 8:00, but that's still pending in the

[52:40] legisle. But um first the first step

[52:42] would essentially be to accept this.

[52:45] >> Yeah. Okay.

[52:48] >> I'll accept a motion from the board.

[52:50] Motion to approve article 9 as written.

[52:52] >> Second.

[52:53] >> All in favor?

[52:57] » All right. And the final one that the

[52:58] board needs to take action on would be

[53:01] relative to article 10, acceptance of

[53:02] Ashley Road and Amber Road as public

[53:04] ways. You previously held your public

[53:06] hearing related to this, so a formal

[53:08] recommendation would be suggested.

[53:11] [snorts]

[53:14] » Okay. Do I have a motion?

[53:17] >> I move to support article 10 as written.

[53:21] >> Second.

[53:22] >> All in favor?

[53:23] >> I.

[53:25] >> Unanimous.

[53:28] and that the rest we don't have to um

[53:31] rest is you can adjourn your meeting

[53:35] a motion we adjourn the meeting

[53:37] >> motion I have a second any discussion

[53:40] there being none all those in favor say

[53:41] yes

[53:42] >> yes we're returned

[53:45] >> good night

[53:51] » able to log off soon before we move on

[53:53] to the next

[53:54] >> thanks

[54:04] Thank you much.

[54:08] » On to our 7 o'

[54:29] Somebody likes me.

[54:33] [clears throat]

[54:41] All right.

[54:42] it being well past 7 o'clock. Um, you

[54:46] have on your agenda Russ and Irish

[54:48] Jennings discussed complaints related to

[54:50] August 1st, 2026 event at the board's

[54:53] August 11, 2026 meeting. Police Chief

[54:55] Dow noted his concerns regarding the

[54:57] event held at 508 International on

[54:59] August 1st, 2026, regarding numerous

[55:02] complaints received from the event,

[55:03] including traffic and parking issues on

[55:05] Brookfield Road interfering with normal

[55:08] traffic flow. Uh both Russ and Irish

[55:10] Jennings have been invited to tonight's

[55:11] meeting and are here uh tonight to

[55:14] address the issues before you along with

[55:15] Chief D. Okay.

[55:16] >> And welcome Russ.

[55:18] >> Good evening Dave.

[55:21] >> So there was an event held at 508 on

[55:24] Saturday, August 1st.

[55:27] That event kind of got overwhelming as

[55:29] far as parking spaces. So the the

[55:31] parkers decided to park in residential

[55:34] areas causing a lot of disturbances to

[55:36] neighbors and

[55:38] like 508 to be a successful business and

[55:41] succeed, but they have to do show a

[55:42] modicum of respect to their neighbors.

[55:45] >> That's all I got.

[55:47] >> Okay.

[55:49] >> Russ, do you have anything to I mean, we

[55:50] did we saw some of the complaints and

[55:52] some of them we got emails.

[55:55] Um, have you figured a way to rectify it

[55:58] or

[56:00] >> um Yeah, of course. uh you know in

[56:03] business anytime you uh you have a

[56:07] problem you always seek a solution so

[56:09] that you know it doesn't exist in the

[56:11] future and that's naturally what we're

[56:13] doing.

[56:14] >> Yeah. Is it just something that got out

[56:16] of hand or or was it

[56:19] >> um

[56:20] you know it it was really a lot of

[56:23] factors. Um but uh you know fortunately

[56:28] we have some answers and uh you know

[56:30] we're working some things to uh

[56:32] alleviate any problems like this in the

[56:34] future.

[56:38] » Any other questions from the board? I I

[56:40] don't

[56:42] um as far as notifying the town to let

[56:44] them know. That would be a

[56:47] to let to let the town know that that's

[56:48] happening would be a certainly a plus.

[56:51] Was it more employees that are needed or

[56:55] >> um No, I think it was just uh perfect

[56:59] storm if you would have it just a lot of

[57:02] different factors, but uh we've handled

[57:05] bigger crowds and we um you know we we

[57:10] tend to learn fairly quickly from our

[57:12] mistakes and like I say correct those

[57:15] pretty quickly. So

[57:19] » I guess my my concern is at you know,

[57:21] the number of ticket sales or something,

[57:23] you have an idea of the volume of

[57:25] people. I just think we need it when you

[57:27] get to a threshold, you have to have a

[57:30] now it's time to have a real plan in

[57:32] place, you know, or we'll wing it, you

[57:34] know, because that's what happens. And

[57:36] um again, I want the business to succeed

[57:38] or just just don't want problems in the

[57:40] neighborhood. I have no ill will towards

[57:42] the family. Uh I just can't have

[57:45] neighbors calling saying they can't get

[57:47] out of their driveways and people

[57:48] urinating their lawns and things that

[57:51] because of an overflow of a crowd. Um,

[57:55] >> and Russ, those are legitimate

[57:56] complaints, too. And those emails, we

[57:58] all got them that weekend and the the

[58:00] following week. I mean, it's

[58:01] >> Well, I'm not here to argue that.

[58:03] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[58:05] >> We're just trying to figure out what's

[58:06] going to help it in the future. You know

[58:08] what I mean? Is it more employees

[58:10] getting people in faster? Was it a clog

[58:11] on the driveway because people were

[58:13] parked in the streets? Were you just

[58:14] over capacity or what was it?

[58:17] >> No, I think uh, you know, again, there

[58:20] was There was a lot of different

[58:22] factors. Um, some factors that didn't

[58:24] even weren't even part of our control.

[58:27] There were uh numerous traffic

[58:30] situations

[58:31] well beyond 508 and well beyond Charlton

[58:34] that affected traffic coming to our

[58:37] facility at a certain point in time. So

[58:40] the early rush that normally happens

[58:42] didn't necessarily happen until late

[58:44] because traffic problems elsewhere. So

[58:47] what happened was it was, you know, they

[58:49] staggered these events starting at 8:00

[58:51] a.m. Well, the 8:00, 9:00, 10:00 traffic

[58:55] all got backed up. So as a result of

[58:57] that, that came when it was 9, 10, 11,

[59:00] and 12:00. Um, shortly after 12:00,

[59:06] actually when the detail officer came on

[59:08] duty,

[59:10] there was no problem from that point on

[59:12] because the traffic just dissolved

[59:14] because the peaks went away and those

[59:17] congestive issues ceased to happen. So,

[59:21] when I say there was a perfect storm,

[59:23] there was a lot of things that happened.

[59:24] But

[59:25] >> the parking was Yeah, even it didn't

[59:26] just go away. The parking was still an

[59:28] issue along the sides of the streets

[59:30] blocking the road and

[59:31] >> well once that happens then that's an issue until the people until

[59:36] the people leave naturally. I mean when

[59:38] you park a car that's you know so but

[59:41] again we we have uh we have dealt with

[59:45] larger crowds um and know how to rectify

[59:52] the situation in the future.

[59:54] If I may say something.

[59:56] >> Sure.

[59:57] >> Your officers did a wonderful job. Thank

[1:00:00] you.

[1:00:01] >> Thank you.

[1:00:01] >> And some of the neighbors wanted to come

[1:00:03] up this evening and explain what

[1:00:06] happened on parts of the Brookfield

[1:00:08] Road.

[1:00:09] Some people were taking people and

[1:00:12] directing them into their driveways and

[1:00:16] charging them to stay there.

[1:00:19] So I said, "No, please don't come up. We

[1:00:22] we're going to what everybody has to say

[1:00:25] and correct it. And like I said, your

[1:00:28] men did a fabulous job. Thank you.

[1:00:31] >> Thank you.

[1:00:32] >> The only thing that's difficult without

[1:00:34] any notice is, you know, obviously

[1:00:36] summer is for everybody likes to take

[1:00:38] their vacation time. So my staff is not

[1:00:40] unique to that. They want to be off

[1:00:42] during the summer. So we typically run,

[1:00:44] you know, unless we have an event or

[1:00:45] something, we run bare bones sometimes

[1:00:47] to accommodate vacation time off and

[1:00:49] stuff. And when you have a big event

[1:00:51] [clears throat] and it's tying up

[1:00:52] offices for several hours, it's not

[1:00:54] fair. It just it's avoidable. So, we

[1:00:56] just need to do something in the future

[1:00:58] so that it doesn't happen again. But at

[1:01:00] this point, it's water under the bridge.

[1:01:01] I can't go back and finish J Whoopi's

[1:01:03] time machine and make things right. It's

[1:01:06] just

[1:01:07] >> moving forward. We've got to work

[1:01:09] together so that doesn't happen again.

[1:01:11] Do do you have like an idea of how many

[1:01:13] people are going to show up for random

[1:01:14] events or is it just a Facebook event

[1:01:16] that people show is coming or going or

[1:01:20] >> sell tickets?

[1:01:20] >> Is there ticket sales for that?

[1:01:22] >> So there there is there is typically

[1:01:26] what we require from the venue or from

[1:01:28] the people who are leasing the venue is

[1:01:31] four weeks prior to the event a number

[1:01:34] of participants. Okay.

[1:01:36] >> Okay. But

[1:01:38] given that it's an outdoor event um

[1:01:41] weather

[1:01:42] >> weather has a factor was gorgeous day um

[1:01:46] late registration

[1:01:48] had record number of people register

[1:01:50] late that you know they had never seen

[1:01:53] before um again all part of the perfect

[1:01:56] storm. Um so a number that they are

[1:01:59] required to give us four weeks in

[1:02:00] advance now dramatically changes two

[1:02:04] days one day day of so you know but like

[1:02:09] I say we've um

[1:02:13] we have good thoughts in mind and you

[1:02:16] know we're working through the plan to

[1:02:18] make sure it doesn't happen again.

[1:02:22] >> Yeah. I think that's all that it is a

[1:02:24] communication between your us and the

[1:02:25] chief. you have those great ideas, if

[1:02:27] you want to communicate them with him

[1:02:29] ahead of time, I think they will

[1:02:30] resolve, you know, lots of those issues.

[1:02:34] >> Teamwork.

[1:02:37] » Yeah, I agree.

[1:02:42] » There's no there's really no ask here or

[1:02:45] vote. Just to kind of anything you can

[1:02:49] do not to not to let that happen again

[1:02:51] would be

[1:02:52] >> Well, I mean, I certainly don't want to

[1:02:53] be here.

[1:02:54] >> Yeah. No, I Nothing against you guys.

[1:02:57] Nothing against you.

[1:02:58] >> I know. You got call down to the person.

[1:03:02] >> I don't I don't want to pay a $1,400

[1:03:04] fine either. Yeah.

[1:03:06] >> For a police detail.

[1:03:07] >> So, you know, it's

[1:03:09] >> which you you ended up doing because

[1:03:12] Yeah.

[1:03:12] >> Right.

[1:03:14] And no, it wasn't only that, but I was I

[1:03:16] remember looking at was when that

[1:03:17] happened and the attendees were unhappy

[1:03:22] >> unhappy no parking and that it was

[1:03:24] disorganized when I was reading some of

[1:03:26] the comments from the attendees and

[1:03:27] that's not good for you either.

[1:03:29] >> Well, Mrs. Jennings is not wrong. Some

[1:03:30] people profit, so they're probably not

[1:03:33] as concerned. They had people in their

[1:03:35] parked in their lawns and such and you

[1:03:36] know saw

[1:03:37] >> Yeah.

[1:03:38] >> saw lemons and made lemonade.

[1:03:40] >> Yeah.

[1:03:42] Maybe if you can just put in your, you

[1:03:43] know, no parking on the roads, cars will

[1:03:46] be towed. Cars will be towed because we

[1:03:48] did talk about that. This is, this goes

[1:03:50] back a couple of months, but we talked

[1:03:52] about

[1:03:53] >> if you put in no parking tow signs,

[1:03:56] that's

[1:03:58] >> they have to be temporary because people

[1:04:00] might not want that in their front lawn,

[1:04:03] >> right?

[1:04:03] >> Residents.

[1:04:05] >> We're going to follow your suggestion,

[1:04:07] Stephen. You deal with those complaints

[1:04:08] from that.

[1:04:12] Wonderful idea.

[1:04:14] >> See, Steve thought of that one.

[1:04:15] >> I bet you did. I bet you did.

[1:04:18] >> I think just notification to the chief.

[1:04:20] Yeah. A month out when you get your

[1:04:22] first example of how many people you

[1:04:23] expect and maybe a week before and the

[1:04:25] day of what you're thinking.

[1:04:28] >> Just keep them in the loop.

[1:04:31] >> Y.

[1:04:33] >> Okay.

[1:04:34] >> All right. Thanks for your time this

[1:04:35] evening.

[1:04:36] >> Thank you, Chief.

[1:04:38] >> Thanks for asking. Thank you, Mr.

[1:04:40] Jennings.

[1:04:44] » Thank you.

[1:04:53] » Moving on to our last

[1:04:57] right last action item for this evening.

[1:04:59] Town's use of flock automated license

[1:05:01] plate readers. At the board September

[1:05:03] 8th, 2026 meeting, Michelle Charmers

[1:05:06] came before you and asked to place the

[1:05:09] town's use of flock automated license

[1:05:10] plate readers on tonight's agenda for

[1:05:12] discussion. She provided her office with

[1:05:15] two citizens petitions for the upcoming

[1:05:16] special town meeting, one binding and

[1:05:18] one non-binding regarding the flock

[1:05:20] automated license plate as well.

[1:05:22] Signatures were verified by the town

[1:05:24] clerk's office. We received a request to

[1:05:26] remove the binding citizens petition um

[1:05:28] due to legal um questions on it and keep

[1:05:32] the nonbinding petition on for the

[1:05:35] October special time meeting. This the

[1:05:37] decision relates to relate to contracts

[1:05:40] rest with the select board

[1:05:43] stumbling over my word there.

[1:05:45] >> The microphones don't seem to be working

[1:05:47] very well. I don't know. I couldn't hear

[1:05:50] anything back there.

[1:05:52] >> I don't know. Is there

[1:05:56] » that microphone not working well?

[1:05:58] >> I just couldn't really hear.

[1:05:59] >> I'm sorry. I speak really low, so that's

[1:06:02] my fault.

[1:06:03] >> I don't have that problem.

[1:06:11] » Well, good evening. Good evening,

[1:06:12] everyone. Michelle Chalmer's, 46 Prindel

[1:06:15] Hill Road. Um, first I want to uh

[1:06:18] obviously thank the board uh for placing

[1:06:21] Charlton's use of flock uh automated

[1:06:23] license plate readers on tonight's

[1:06:24] agenda and allowing this public

[1:06:27] discussion and vote to take place.

[1:06:30] uh more than 160 residents um signed a

[1:06:34] petition uh requesting action on these

[1:06:36] cameras. Uh those residents represent

[1:06:39] diverse perspectives. Uh this is not uh

[1:06:43] simply my personal concern. Uh it is a

[1:06:46] community request for transparency,

[1:06:49] accountability, and a decision u by our

[1:06:52] elected officials. Uh, town council has

[1:06:55] determined that decisions involving

[1:06:58] these contracts fall within the

[1:06:59] authority of the select board. So, the

[1:07:01] responsibility for deciding whether

[1:07:03] Charlton continues, expands, uh, or

[1:07:06] discontinues this system therefore rests

[1:07:09] with you. We recognize that license

[1:07:12] plate readers may assist police in

[1:07:15] certain investigations. Uh this effort

[1:07:18] is truly not about opposing our police

[1:07:21] department or dismissing uh legitimate

[1:07:24] public safety needs. Uh it is about

[1:07:27] whether the benefit of this system

[1:07:29] justify automatically collecting and

[1:07:33] making searchable the vehicle location

[1:07:36] information of people who are

[1:07:38] overwhelmingly suspected of no crime.

[1:07:42] Charlton currently operates four

[1:07:44] cameras. The records also show a

[1:07:47] separate agreement for four additional

[1:07:50] cameras that according to the police

[1:07:52] department have not yet been received or

[1:07:54] installed.

[1:07:56] The board has an opportunity to act

[1:07:59] before this system doubles in size.

[1:08:02] I respectfully ask the board to vote

[1:08:05] tonight to discontinue Charlton's use of

[1:08:08] flock, stop the installation of the four

[1:08:11] additional cameras, prevent automatic

[1:08:14] renewal, and direct the town

[1:08:17] administrator and town council to pursue

[1:08:20] every legally and financially

[1:08:21] appropriate termination and refund

[1:08:24] option.

[1:08:26] I wanted just to confirm Andrew I think

[1:08:28] what you were saying is that the

[1:08:30] citizens petition when you close the

[1:08:32] warrant it is still on the petition

[1:08:34] correct okay so we want to make sure

[1:08:36] that the citizens petition is still on

[1:08:38] the warrant for town meeting um and so

[1:08:43] um it can stay on the warrant we'll take

[1:08:45] it off um once uh the board takes action

[1:08:49] uh consistent what with what the

[1:08:51] residents uh request uh the residents

[1:08:54] have made their concerns known and

[1:08:56] there's more uh citizens that will speak

[1:08:59] tonight and I think you've also received

[1:09:01] some emails. So tonight we are asking

[1:09:03] the board to respond with a clear and

[1:09:06] recorded decision. So thank you.

[1:09:10] >> Okay, who wants to go first?

[1:09:12] >> I think

[1:09:15] would you like to come up?

[1:09:24] Hello, my name is Christopher Willow, 47

[1:09:26] Jennings Road.

[1:09:28] Um, I do know that flock cameras are,

[1:09:34] you know, generally that is a lot of

[1:09:35] discussion that people have burn brain

[1:09:38] up over privacy concerns. Um, despite

[1:09:42] other major concerns people would have

[1:09:44] about them, I would also like to discuss

[1:09:47] other major concerns that these cameras

[1:09:50] have been involved with that are also

[1:09:51] impacting the East Coast and

[1:09:53] Massachusetts. Um, so generally these

[1:09:58] cameras have been leading to false

[1:09:59] arrest and they also

[1:10:02] >> Excuse me. Could you pull the microphone

[1:10:03] a little closer?

[1:10:04] >> Yes, of course.

[1:10:04] >> Especially when you're covering the

[1:10:06] office.

[1:10:08] >> Thank you. These cameras have led to

[1:10:10] false arrest and also false hot list

[1:10:14] assignments. These cameras also assist

[1:10:16] with AI recognition which can be

[1:10:20] determined to cars and other people that

[1:10:23] predict patterns, behavioral patterns,

[1:10:26] and other physical traits inside cars,

[1:10:28] bumper stickers, and anything else that

[1:10:30] is recognizable on in their environment.

[1:10:34] These car, not cars, these cameras

[1:10:36] specifically, some ALPRs also work with

[1:10:40] um ICE and some of them also work with

[1:10:43] other surveilling networks like

[1:10:44] Palunteer. Um, of course, there's other

[1:10:47] major details out there about this. I'm

[1:10:49] just

[1:10:51] spreading out more info that some people

[1:10:54] may not know. Um,

[1:10:57] despite this though, there's a whole

[1:10:59] bunch of concerns about them. And I

[1:11:01] would also like to say besides flock um

[1:11:06] taking down um the power or more likely

[1:11:09] shutting these things off, they have not

[1:11:13] been quote unquote put down um because

[1:11:16] there are some been some cases where

[1:11:18] they have been released back up to be

[1:11:20] put on power and that was with unknown

[1:11:23] authority being access to playing them

[1:11:26] back up on power. So what I have seen

[1:11:29] most people do to actually stop these

[1:11:32] things being um put on

[1:11:36] um generally to stop the privacy

[1:11:41] concerns and all that they will cover

[1:11:43] them or generally they will just cover

[1:11:47] the camera or microphone or anything

[1:11:49] similar to that is what helps most of it

[1:11:52] stop. And it can also, in my opinion,

[1:11:54] generally see who is trying to mess with

[1:11:57] the camera or who's not. Um,

[1:12:01] besides that, um, I would also like to

[1:12:05] discuss how vulnerably these canals

[1:12:07] cannibers cameras are. Um, they are very

[1:12:10] vulnerable to other digital attacks.

[1:12:13] They are vulnerable to everyone. Um,

[1:12:17] very vulnerable in all perspectives. Um

[1:12:20] just like all technology it's very

[1:12:21] vulnerable. Um also there are other

[1:12:25] major ALPRs in this environment as well

[1:12:28] despite being flock and those other

[1:12:30] major ALPRs are also being um used as

[1:12:34] alternative when these flock cameras are

[1:12:36] going down. So I know we're not talking

[1:12:39] about other major ALPRs but despite the

[1:12:43] flock cameras going down they will be

[1:12:45] used as the alternative to be brought

[1:12:47] back up.

[1:12:49] Okay,

[1:12:54] thank you for that. Is there anybody

[1:12:55] else that's wishing to speak before

[1:12:57] >> I'm just curious where is all your

[1:12:59] knowledge coming from? Are you involved

[1:13:01] in any ways with

[1:13:02] >> Say again?

[1:13:03] >> Where is your knowledge coming from?

[1:13:05] >> It's coming from other civil cases

[1:13:08] considering um outside Massachusetts and

[1:13:11] inside Massachusetts. By civil cases you

[1:13:13] mean you read about them or you

[1:13:14] participated in them or you uh

[1:13:16] >> documented those

[1:13:18] >> it's documented some in newsletters some

[1:13:21] in post it's all variety um various

[1:13:25] government sources um that's all I can

[1:13:28] say but it's generally documented

[1:13:31] >> thank you

[1:13:31] >> yes of course

[1:13:32] >> on social media

[1:13:34] [clears throat]

[1:13:39] Sh.

[1:13:58] Good evening, members of the select

[1:13:59] board. My name is Brian Powers. I live

[1:14:01] at 48 Partridge Hill Road here in

[1:14:02] Charlton. Uh before I begin, I want to

[1:14:05] say clearly that our local police

[1:14:06] department is fantastic and I deeply

[1:14:08] appreciate the work they do to keep our

[1:14:09] community safe. I want to acknowledge

[1:14:12] that most locals have no idea that we

[1:14:13] already have six operational flock

[1:14:15] cameras hidden across town, including at

[1:14:17] the library, Stafford Street, Route 169

[1:14:20] by Amazon and the Mass Pike. A year ago,

[1:14:23] this technology was instituted with

[1:14:25] almost zero public comment. But things

[1:14:27] have changed since then. More than

[1:14:29] 120,000 of these AI cameras have sprung

[1:14:31] up. what seems like instantly across the

[1:14:34] country. What started as an isolated

[1:14:37] safety tool has rapidly scaled into a

[1:14:40] massive centralized corporate

[1:14:41] surveillance network and now we're

[1:14:44] talking about expanding our local

[1:14:45] footprint even further.

[1:14:48] While we all know that privacy concerns

[1:14:50] and abstract theories surrounding the n

[1:14:51] the nationwide scale exist, I'm not here

[1:14:54] tonight to debate them. Instead, I'm

[1:14:56] here to address the immediate

[1:14:57] operational, financial, and legal

[1:14:59] liabilities this specific contract

[1:15:01] brings to Charlton. Practical risks that

[1:15:04] our closest neighbors have already

[1:15:06] recognized and acted upon.

[1:15:09] We are an extreme outlier in our own

[1:15:11] backyard. Our direct neighbors are

[1:15:13] rapidly dismantling this exact system.

[1:15:16] South Beach has suspended its flock

[1:15:17] agreement due to lack of of guardrails.

[1:15:20] Auburn has ordered the complete

[1:15:21] deactivation and physical removal of its

[1:15:24] flock cameras. Douglas, Grafton, and

[1:15:26] Boilston have all followed suit and

[1:15:28] canceled their contract. If our closest

[1:15:31] neighboring towns have determined that

[1:15:32] flock is a liability, Charlton must ask,

[1:15:35] "Why are we doubling down by expanding

[1:15:37] it?"

[1:15:38] This is a procurement risk based on the

[1:15:40] exact same text we signed. Towns like

[1:15:42] South Bridge and Auburn halted or paused

[1:15:45] their programs because local officials

[1:15:47] in legal reviews raised serious alarms

[1:15:49] about the standard contract terms and

[1:15:51] municipal oversight. Because Flock Huses

[1:15:54] uniform boilerplate agreements

[1:15:56] nationwide, the contracts that

[1:15:58] Southbridge and Auburn found to be

[1:16:00] unacceptable are likely the exact same

[1:16:03] contracts that Charlton has signed. We

[1:16:05] need our town council to review this

[1:16:07] immediately before we deepen our

[1:16:09] financial and legal exposure.

[1:16:12] This is a massive fiscal and legal risk

[1:16:14] for our taxpayers. Independent audits of

[1:16:17] active deployments have revealed that

[1:16:19] Flock AI can suffer from error rates as

[1:16:21] high as 71%

[1:16:24] in vehicle reads. When a machine

[1:16:26] mistakes a zero for an O, it triggers a

[1:16:29] high-risisk felony stop. Towns across

[1:16:32] the country are facing massive civil

[1:16:33] rights lawsuits because innocent drivers

[1:16:35] are being pulled over at gunpoint due to

[1:16:37] software typos. By expanding this

[1:16:40] network, we are actively expanding

[1:16:42] Charlton's legal liability. I strongly

[1:16:44] support efficient public safety, but

[1:16:47] tools of this magnitude require deep

[1:16:49] public debate, clear metrics of success,

[1:16:52] and strict oversight. Tonight, I ask the

[1:16:55] select board to protect Charlton from

[1:16:57] legal liability, and align with our

[1:16:58] neighbors. Please vote to pause the

[1:17:01] expansion, place a moratorum on the

[1:17:03] current cameras, and direct town council

[1:17:06] to review the contract for termination.

[1:17:08] Thank you.

[1:17:09] >> Thank you.

[1:17:10] >> And not to add any other companies to do

[1:17:12] the same thing.

[1:17:14] >> I'm sorry. What was that?

[1:17:15] >> And not to add any other companies

[1:17:17] afterwards to do the same thing. Like

[1:17:19] don't just cancel Flock and bring on

[1:17:20] Axon. That doesn't do anything. It

[1:17:22] actually gets worse. So,

[1:17:24] >> okay.

[1:17:26] >> This um is there anybody else or

[1:17:35] Stephan Sage Lincoln Road? I just want

[1:17:38] to cl I'm also the chair of the

[1:17:39] Charleton Public Library. I just want to

[1:17:42] uh board of trustees. I just like to

[1:17:44] clarify that the flock camera or

[1:17:47] whatever kind of camera it is. It's was

[1:17:48] mentioned at the Charleton Library is

[1:17:51] not on Charleton Library's property. It

[1:17:53] is on the public sidewalk monitoring the

[1:17:56] crosswalk. Charlton Public Library had

[1:17:58] nothing to do about having a flock

[1:18:01] camera put into the library. Thank you.

[1:18:04] Okay.

[1:18:11] Is there anyone else to speak on the

[1:18:12] matter?

[1:18:21] » Uh, Zach Stiffler, 29 West Applewood

[1:18:23] Drive. Uh, good evening. Uh, I'm here

[1:18:26] tonight to ask the select board to

[1:18:28] terminate its contract with Flock and

[1:18:29] remove all existing cameras from the ch

[1:18:31] town of Charlton. Charlton already has

[1:18:34] one of the lowest crime rates in the

[1:18:35] state. So before we create a permanent

[1:18:37] infrastructure for tracking vehicles and

[1:18:39] recording the movements of innocent

[1:18:40] residents which can be accessed not only

[1:18:42] by local agencies but federal agencies,

[1:18:45] some of which are actively engaged in

[1:18:46] dismantling dismantling civil liberties,

[1:18:49] we should ask two simple questions. Is

[1:18:51] this level of surveillance truly

[1:18:52] necessary in a town with an admirably

[1:18:54] low crime rate? And more importantly,

[1:18:56] does the potential harm to innocent

[1:18:58] citizens outweigh its benefits? Flock

[1:19:01] cameras do not simply look for people

[1:19:02] who are suspected of crimes. They

[1:19:04] collect information on everyone who

[1:19:05] drives past them. That being the case,

[1:19:07] how long before an innocent person is

[1:19:09] charged with a crime they did not

[1:19:10] commit? Because a car similar to theirs

[1:19:12] was witnessed at a crime scene or

[1:19:14] because a crime occurred at a place they

[1:19:15] frequent. If you ask Lindsay Issacs of

[1:19:18] Florida, Eve Pisarelli of Rhode Island,

[1:19:20] or Chisana of Colorado, they will tell

[1:19:22] you it has already happened. These are

[1:19:24] just the first instances in which

[1:19:25] individuals have suffered despite law

[1:19:27] enforcement acting in good faith. And I

[1:19:29] believe if mass surveillance uh becomes

[1:19:31] the norm, it is reasonable to assume it

[1:19:32] will not be the last. Uh for the sake of

[1:19:35] time, I will not go into detail

[1:19:36] regarding the potential for as well as

[1:19:38] numerous documented cases of abuse

[1:19:40] resulting from members of law

[1:19:41] enforcement not acting in good faith.

[1:19:43] However, and with no disrespect to

[1:19:45] Charlton Police Department, I will

[1:19:47] mention that a cursory Google search

[1:19:48] will provide no shortage of examples,

[1:19:50] including four that have occurred in

[1:19:52] Massachusetts. Uh the erosion of the

[1:19:54] Fourth Amendment is no longer a

[1:19:55] hypothetical concern. It is occurring in

[1:19:58] real time and affecting innocent

[1:19:59] citizens. I urge the board to find

[1:20:01] itself on the right side of history by

[1:20:02] rejecting mass surveillance, voting to

[1:20:04] remove flock cameras, rejecting further

[1:20:06] expansion of the system, and putting

[1:20:08] civil liberties and public trust before

[1:20:09] convenience. Thank you.

[1:20:17] » Is there anyone else to talk on that

[1:20:19] before we start talking?

[1:20:24] [clears throat]

[1:20:26] I'll start off on this. So when this started percolating over the

[1:20:33] summer,

[1:20:34] we started seeing a lot of things about

[1:20:37] flock and all that type of thing. The

[1:20:39] town of Charlton put them in place two

[1:20:41] years ago, not one year ago.

[1:20:44] There was discussion. It was an open

[1:20:46] meeting, just like the meeting tonight.

[1:20:48] It was posted.

[1:20:50] Um

[1:20:52] there was discussion back and forth

[1:20:53] about it when all this hype started this

[1:20:55] summer.

[1:20:57] Um,

[1:20:58] it's actually was it was Mike and I were

[1:21:00] talking about it at the end of July,

[1:21:02] early in a in August,

[1:21:05] and I thought it was important. Mike was

[1:21:07] actually um on that on the on the side

[1:21:10] of being against them,

[1:21:13] and I was trying to explain to him what

[1:21:15] we learned when we voted to put them in.

[1:21:21] So, a refresher was needed. So, we met

[1:21:23] with PD. I think all of us have

[1:21:25] individually if not Mike and I went

[1:21:27] together and YouTube went individually

[1:21:29] went through a training course on flock

[1:21:32] and we learned what the cameras do what

[1:21:34] they can't do

[1:21:36] we excluded all the hype

[1:21:38] um

[1:21:40] and it's it's a confusing part and I can

[1:21:42] understand why the public is confused

[1:21:46] but the um flock is not a pl is they

[1:21:49] confuse it with the platforms that mail

[1:21:51] tickets to you

[1:21:53] that's A lot of people are confusing it

[1:21:55] with flock is

[1:21:59] >> okay. Okay. Very good. Very good.

[1:22:01] [clears throat] Let me finish. Let me

[1:22:03] finish.

[1:22:04] It's not a It's not a platform that

[1:22:06] mails tickets. It doesn't have that

[1:22:09] technology. It is It is a simple little

[1:22:11] box

[1:22:13] that records.

[1:22:16] » Excuse me. Could I finish though? It is

[1:22:18] a simple box. We've watched the

[1:22:20] demonstrations from PD. The camera

[1:22:23] itself is what I'm talking about now.

[1:22:24] It's a simple box that takes pictures.

[1:22:27] It is a It is no It's pictures of a

[1:22:31] license plate. Flock does not have any

[1:22:34] facial recognition in a camera. It does

[1:22:37] not take video.

[1:22:39] >> It's not just the license plate. You can

[1:22:42] see the entire area of where the camera.

[1:22:45] >> It takes the back of the car and it it's

[1:22:47] and it stores that information.

[1:22:49] >> Right.

[1:22:51] It is a It is a

[1:22:53] >> but it doesn't have the ability to tell

[1:22:55] you who is driving that car.

[1:22:58] >> It does not.

[1:22:59] >> Your camera might not, but their system

[1:23:00] does.

[1:23:01] >> Their clock system does not. That's

[1:23:04] where people are wrong.

[1:23:05] >> To somebody else who does. What's the

[1:23:06] difference?

[1:23:08] >> So, so what we So, we went Mike and I

[1:23:11] went yesterday and we had a meeting with

[1:23:15] Back Downer PD and Flock representatives

[1:23:17] on Zoom. They were for them and they

[1:23:19] explained the system. You can you can

[1:23:22] laugh all you want.

[1:23:24] >> Um

[1:23:26] we're terrified.

[1:23:27] >> Why would you? It's it's

[1:23:29] >> dangerous.

[1:23:30] >> So you trust software people that are

[1:23:33] manufacturing it over

[1:23:35] >> who owns it?

[1:23:36] >> Just

[1:23:38] a ton of water, please.

[1:23:40] >> What happens is the people at home when

[1:23:42] we're all talking, they can't hear what

[1:23:44] you're saying. And I've had many

[1:23:46] requests saying, "Hey, could you please

[1:23:47] remind folks if they want to say

[1:23:49] something? Come up so we can all hear

[1:23:51] you." Otherwise, the people at home

[1:23:52] can't hear what you're saying. So,

[1:23:55] excuse me for interrupting.

[1:23:57] >> Um, and I would just also like to say, I

[1:23:59] know we have the police chief here, not

[1:24:01] to put him on the spot, but if he I

[1:24:03] think offering him the opportunity to

[1:24:05] say a couple of things if he chooses. If

[1:24:07] not, that's

[1:24:08] >> I I'd like to finish just what I was

[1:24:10] saying because I if I may. All right.

[1:24:12] So, we

[1:24:14] you can, believe it or not, you can

[1:24:16] watch the demonstration.

[1:24:18] It's if you'd like to do that. The um

[1:24:21] it's a law enforcement tool.

[1:24:24] It It reads and stores a license plate.

[1:24:28] That is it. It does not do facial

[1:24:30] recognition. It does not do video. It

[1:24:33] takes

[1:24:35] a a trained law enforcement officer

[1:24:38] with a case with a case. He has to have

[1:24:41] a case number and a reason and a license

[1:24:43] plate number to type in that license

[1:24:45] plate and then they can look in and say

[1:24:48] and hit a camera and say, "You know

[1:24:50] what? That stolen car was on Stafford

[1:24:52] Street an hour ago." That's the only

[1:24:55] way. It's not looking for a crime. It's a tool to solve a crime. It and it

[1:25:01] doesn't do anything more than store

[1:25:04] license plate. It doesn't store the

[1:25:05] person's name, their information, where

[1:25:07] they live, their address. That is a

[1:25:09] separate tool that law enforcement has

[1:25:10] had in place for decades where they they

[1:25:14] use the seizure system where they use

[1:25:15] their they go in and tune it up and then

[1:25:19] they go searching for it.

[1:25:21] It's um

[1:25:24] the data as far as storing data right

[1:25:26] now the data flock flock stores the data

[1:25:28] for 30 days and then they erase it.

[1:25:32] There was legislation around the country

[1:25:34] that they're trying to make that 21

[1:25:36] days.

[1:25:37] Flock is now putting in what we learned

[1:25:39] yesterday is that they may put in a in a

[1:25:43] in the ability to re erase the

[1:25:45] information in seven days. That would be

[1:25:48] up to the choice of a of a police chief

[1:25:51] to do that. Um state legislation is also

[1:25:54] kicking in. You're seeing it in the

[1:25:56] state house. They're talking about it.

[1:25:58] What was it in um in Virginia? They're

[1:26:00] looking at a 21day

[1:26:02] just to erase all the information on

[1:26:04] fly. It is it is no different than going

[1:26:07] outside and taking a photograph of the

[1:26:09] back of my car right now. That it's it's

[1:26:12] the same it's the same thing. You can

[1:26:14] laugh.

[1:26:15] >> Is that

[1:26:15] >> I've I've watched the demonstrations.

[1:26:17] >> Can we watch the demonstrations?

[1:26:19] >> Yes, of course. Please do. Not tonight,

[1:26:21] but yes. You know, that's you know,

[1:26:24] that's probably the best point I've

[1:26:25] heard from from the from the

[1:26:28] >> the the opponents of this whole system

[1:26:30] tonight is can we watch it? Absolutely.

[1:26:32] The problem is education.

[1:26:34] >> Yes. Is that just the brochure or is

[1:26:36] there data saying that this is legit?

[1:26:38] Because I mean

[1:26:39] >> you could look at two things if if the

[1:26:41] chief allows it. You could look at what

[1:26:43] an officer does when he has a he has to

[1:26:46] have a case file a case number and a

[1:26:49] license plate in order to log into the

[1:26:51] system.

[1:26:52] >> Is that

[1:26:55] I you know I can't speak I can't Yeah.

[1:26:58] You know point of order though. Yeah.

[1:27:00] Please if if

[1:27:01] >> what's up the chief?

[1:27:03] Yeah, [laughter]

[1:27:05] >> may maybe some you know that was a good

[1:27:06] point though I did for bringing it up

[1:27:08] because we did talk about that it's

[1:27:10] really an educational process more than

[1:27:13] >> more than

[1:27:14] >> I would like it to be known that the

[1:27:16] case number thing is a new part of the

[1:27:18] system within the last month uh police

[1:27:20] officers were not required to have a

[1:27:22] case number before

[1:27:24] >> I can't I can't

[1:27:25] >> everything anything anything and

[1:27:27] everything from the officer physically

[1:27:29] logging in to the website is time and

[1:27:32] date stamp recorded from their names,

[1:27:34] the officer's names, the date, the time,

[1:27:37] and then they have to have a reason in

[1:27:39] order to pull the request to get the

[1:27:41] information, which would be a picture.

[1:27:43] Um, we have sat through hours of

[1:27:46] training uh through this. We had uh like

[1:27:50] Steve said, we had flock on on webinar.

[1:27:53] We zoomed with them for several hours.

[1:27:55] Um, I poked around because I like

[1:27:58] yourself had many questions from from

[1:28:01] the whole big brother surveillance kind

[1:28:03] of thing. Um, right down to is it

[1:28:06] tracking me where I go, how I get there.

[1:28:08] It's none of that. I I have to tell you

[1:28:11] I was completely

[1:28:13] I don't want to say upset, but I was a

[1:28:14] little upset at what these cameras

[1:28:16] actually had the functionalities and

[1:28:18] capabilities of doing. I I have wildlife

[1:28:21] cameras out in the woods that take way

[1:28:23] better pictures and are way more

[1:28:24] detailed than these. These things just

[1:28:27] take six pictures every second

[1:28:30] continuously, non-stop.

[1:28:33] >> Go ahead.

[1:28:38] » Yeah, we're gonna have to Sorry about

[1:28:40] that. just

[1:28:41] >> um I believe Boston just got rid of them

[1:28:43] because one of the concerns was that

[1:28:46] even the even though the contract said

[1:28:47] that it would not or it would only take

[1:28:50] it for 21 days, 30 days, whatever it may

[1:28:52] be, that wasn't the case. They were

[1:28:54] finding it going into national databases

[1:28:56] being logged in these data centers.

[1:28:58] They'll stay there forever and then if

[1:29:00] they ever want to find anything about

[1:29:01] anybody, they can just type something in

[1:29:03] and it has our whole entire life in

[1:29:06] there. Like it's so it's just

[1:29:07] >> So that's not that's not the case.

[1:29:08] >> That's not the case. We we've released

[1:29:10] copies of contracts. We've released

[1:29:11] copies of terms and conditions. We we've

[1:29:14] asked the same questions to the chief. I

[1:29:17] asked Flock themselves the same thing.

[1:29:20] We own the data. We own the information

[1:29:22] that these cameras take these pictures.

[1:29:25] Nobody else gets them. And after I

[1:29:27] believe it's 30 days now, everything

[1:29:29] deletes and goes away. And and that is

[1:29:31] per the contract. That's that's written

[1:29:33] in there.

[1:29:34] >> And then I mean

[1:29:36] audit.

[1:29:38] >> Yes.

[1:29:40] the chief of police and whoever he

[1:29:42] assumes I'm assuming probably a captain

[1:29:44] and again there's a report that

[1:29:45] >> come

[1:29:48] we don't trust anybody else

[1:29:50] >> again no disrespect to the police but

[1:29:53] >> should there not be an independent third

[1:29:55] party agency making sure that the data

[1:29:57] is secure

[1:29:58] >> there is there is that's what I asked

[1:30:00] same thing

[1:30:02] >> I don't have the name of the company

[1:30:03] that does it

[1:30:04] >> actually but it's validated

[1:30:05] >> if we can stay on one if you're you all

[1:30:08] done with. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine.

[1:30:11] >> Dan, you want to you want to

[1:30:14] put put you on the spot

[1:30:17] >> for anybody? This is our chief of police

[1:30:18] stand out.

[1:30:19] >> Welcome myself to the Lions, right?

[1:30:21] >> Yeah. Well, hey. Yeah.

[1:30:25] >> And Lieutenant Gribbons

[1:30:26] >> what flock does and doesn't do. Nobody

[1:30:30] wants to live in a police state. Nobody

[1:30:32] wants to be constantly under

[1:30:33] surveillance. When you have a flock

[1:30:36] camera, we'll use the live near the

[1:30:38] library. Sorry, near the library. When a

[1:30:41] plate goes by, it takes approximately

[1:30:43] six pictures of either your license

[1:30:46] plate or vehicle description. So, per

[1:30:48] second per second. So, it's not a video

[1:30:50] that's constantly running, but it's six

[1:30:53] quick snapshots. So, if somebody said,

[1:30:56] "Hey, I just got into a hit and run and

[1:30:57] a red pickup truck came by." We could

[1:31:00] now go and say, "We've got a hit and

[1:31:01] run. Did any red pickup trucks go by in

[1:31:03] the last five minutes?

[1:31:06] I could look at hours and hours of

[1:31:08] traditional video, but it wouldn't do

[1:31:10] all that work for me and just find it.

[1:31:11] What it's going to show me is a picture

[1:31:13] of your vehicles. People like, "What if

[1:31:15] the data gets released?" What Steve was

[1:31:17] implying was what gets released is a

[1:31:20] picture of your license plate. It

[1:31:21] doesn't. We have to do another step and

[1:31:23] go into what's called CIS and then run

[1:31:25] that license plate to get your personal

[1:31:26] information, which isn't part of the

[1:31:28] flock system. What the flex system is

[1:31:30] going to show is a picture of possible

[1:31:32] vehicle red pickup truck license plate

[1:31:35] 123 ABC. That's all we got. Now, that

[1:31:39] may you may not be the person that

[1:31:42] caused what of the hit and run, but at

[1:31:43] least it gives us like three vehicles

[1:31:46] matching that description went by. We

[1:31:47] can go talk to three people. Oh, geez,

[1:31:49] you've got front end damage. You're

[1:31:50] probably the person that just did the

[1:31:52] hit and run. That's what we would do

[1:31:53] with that information. Um, Anthony can

[1:31:56] speak much more eloquently about it. Uh,

[1:31:59] as far as the technology,

[1:32:01] >> so the technology takes six stills per excuse me, six stills per second.

[1:32:07] Um, it's not a, like the chief said,

[1:32:09] it's not a continuous video feed. Um,

[1:32:13] sometimes if a vehicle is traveling too

[1:32:15] fast, it doesn't catch it. Um,

[1:32:19] you know, it it uh it's set up on an

[1:32:22] algorithm. It works off the algorithm.

[1:32:24] It's not recording, like you said,

[1:32:26] video. It doesn't record voice. Um, and

[1:32:32] >> go ahead.

[1:32:32] >> This is just in the current state,

[1:32:34] right? There could be updates later

[1:32:35] where this

[1:32:36] >> I don't think we're interested in

[1:32:37] updating beyond that. I mean, we're not

[1:32:39] looking to get into like shot spotter

[1:32:41] and all these other things.

[1:32:42] >> Yeah. I think there's a fear of

[1:32:45] technology in general, like, oh my god,

[1:32:46] this is what's going to happen next.

[1:32:48] That's not what we're looking to do. But

[1:32:50] yeah, once it's in there, it's hard to

[1:32:51] get out.

[1:32:52] >> As a police chief, I don't know what I

[1:32:54] say to the family of Molly Bish or Holly

[1:32:57] Perini that we couldn't have helped

[1:32:59] identify a vehicle, maybe found that

[1:33:01] child before something tragic happened.

[1:33:04] You sure? You know, um we're not looking

[1:33:06] for we're not working with ICE that

[1:33:08] doesn't know a person's name. It doesn't

[1:33:10] have the ability to do that. But what it

[1:33:12] does is a red pickup truck. We can say

[1:33:14] that many red pickup truck go by Chevy

[1:33:17] and it could identify three or four

[1:33:19] Chevy red pickup trucks went by. If we

[1:33:22] were to say um you know this is the

[1:33:25] possible license plate, you know, 123

[1:33:27] ABC, it would say, "Hey, it went by the

[1:33:30] library heading that direct towards CVS,

[1:33:33] but it doesn't tell us where where you

[1:33:35] came from, what you were thinking about

[1:33:36] going to." I mean, people have this idea

[1:33:39] that it it's plotting out their whole

[1:33:41] day and saying, you know, is it going to

[1:33:43] tell me that I was having an affair on

[1:33:45] my wife? It it doesn't do any of that.

[1:33:47] It really doesn't. It literally takes a

[1:33:48] snapshot, which hopefully with six

[1:33:50] snapshots, we can get a license plate.

[1:33:53] It's not perfect. Doesn't always happen.

[1:33:55] >> It's true.

[1:33:56] But it gives us a better chance of

[1:33:58] finding a missing person, finding an

[1:34:01] elderly person with dementia that the

[1:34:03] family, you know, a a wife wakes up in

[1:34:06] the morning and says, "Hey, my my

[1:34:07] husband has dementia. The car is missing

[1:34:09] and you know, stuff like that." Um, now

[1:34:12] a lot of times all we can tell them is

[1:34:13] it went down Stafford Street where it

[1:34:15] went, we can say a direction of travel

[1:34:17] that we got a flock hit on that vehicle,

[1:34:20] the missing person, right? where it

[1:34:22] went, but we got a time frame that hey,

[1:34:24] it went by at 8 o'clock this morning,

[1:34:27] but we won't know that until we go look.

[1:34:28] >> Are you telling me that the system will

[1:34:30] not when you search that vehicle on that

[1:34:34] give you every hit in an area?

[1:34:37] >> What do you mean by that? So like

[1:34:39] >> when you search when you search for a a

[1:34:42] vehicle, are you searching for based on

[1:34:44] characteristics of the vehicle? Are you

[1:34:46] searching for based on plate? plate is

[1:34:49] our our primary,

[1:34:51] >> but you could be looking for a

[1:34:52] description to your point. So, it does

[1:34:53] two things. It does license plates.

[1:34:55] Sometimes people get the license plate

[1:34:57] wrong. They're off the digit or

[1:34:58] something like that. So, you can put it

[1:35:00] in. It comes up with close matches or

[1:35:03] you may get an exact match or vehicle

[1:35:05] description. It was a It was a brown

[1:35:06] van. Okay. So, we can put in we're

[1:35:08] looking for a brown van in the last 20

[1:35:11] minutes. Did it go by these cameras? But

[1:35:13] it doesn't tell us. You could be in

[1:35:15] town, but you didn't go by the flock

[1:35:17] camera. So that doesn't mean you're not

[1:35:19] in town. It just simply means you didn't

[1:35:20] go by a caught on say

[1:35:26] » when you do that search, what is your

[1:35:28] limit? What is your limit in terms of

[1:35:30] time?

[1:35:31] >> What is your li limit in terms of

[1:35:33] location that the system returns? So

[1:35:36] we're limited maximum maximum

[1:35:38] >> our maximum limitation currently is 30

[1:35:41] days

[1:35:43] >> and distance location

[1:35:46] >> no wide

[1:35:48] >> we we can search nationwide if other

[1:35:50] departments have given us permission to

[1:35:51] search the cameras

[1:35:53] >> so that's a home petition thing where

[1:35:56] you basically say are you willing to

[1:35:58] share your information in Texas if they

[1:36:00] are then we could in theory say hey has

[1:36:03] this vehicle been anywhere in the last

[1:36:05] 30

[1:36:06] It was it was in Texas.

[1:36:10] >> But unfortunately, we're trying to limit

[1:36:13] if we can have just one conversation.

[1:36:14] >> We're trying to limit it to New England

[1:36:16] for the most part unless it's a serious investigation.

[1:36:21] » Roadways that that do come in trouble,

[1:36:24] right? Or areas where I'll give you an

[1:36:26] example. Stolen cars in in Charleton,

[1:36:30] they end up in Connecticut and they go

[1:36:32] to New Jersey, they go to they go to New

[1:36:34] York. Okay, drugs. Drugs that are coming

[1:36:37] into trouble are coming out of the

[1:36:39] south. Okay, they're coming out of

[1:36:41] Atlanta. They're coming out of Florida.

[1:36:43] Um,

[1:36:45] and we have roads adjacent to us that travel into those areas. Okay. Um,

[1:36:53] Charlton does not have like you're not

[1:36:57] seeing it's it's not

[1:37:00] you're not seeing handhand drug

[1:37:02] transactions in Charlton as much. they occur. Okay. But in Charlton, uh we

[1:37:09] are a the way the way I think to best

[1:37:13] describe it is we are the hub on a wheel

[1:37:17] of just roads. Okay? We have a lot of

[1:37:20] access to big roads. We have a lot of

[1:37:21] roads close by and our roads connect to

[1:37:25] other big roads. Okay? A lot of drugs

[1:37:28] come through. There's no that's not a

[1:37:30] secret. Okay? Um, and if you go to

[1:37:33] Dudley District Court and wonder, hey,

[1:37:36] why are there so many trafficking

[1:37:38] arrests in this area? It's because of

[1:37:39] the roads that are here. Okay. Um, and

[1:37:42] those roads, we all use them every day,

[1:37:44] but drug dealers and drug traffickers

[1:37:46] use them every day, too. Uh, and people

[1:37:49] doing other crimes, too.

[1:37:50] >> So, if there's an Amber Alert, not all

[1:37:52] drug, that's not always criminal, but if

[1:37:54] there's an Amber Alert for somebody

[1:37:55] missing or an elderly person, we can

[1:37:57] literally put that plate in and get an

[1:37:59] activation if they come into town. We

[1:38:01] may not be able to catch them or find

[1:38:03] them because they're continuing to

[1:38:04] drive, but at least we got we can notify

[1:38:06] the surrounding communities. Hey, this

[1:38:08] vehicle just went down Stafford Street.

[1:38:10] Don't know where it's headed, but it's

[1:38:12] in the area. It also puts vehicles that

[1:38:15] we're looking for. They're now in New

[1:38:16] Bedford. There's no reason for us to be

[1:38:18] driving around aimlessly looking for

[1:38:20] them anymore. We know they're not in the

[1:38:22] area. So, that's why sometimes it does

[1:38:23] help to reach out. Does the contract

[1:38:25] limit you to the

[1:38:29] is the contract limited specifically to

[1:38:32] the ALPRs that are currently built or

[1:38:35] does it does it also allow for

[1:38:40] oh

[1:38:42] does it allow for the condor models that

[1:38:45] allow free form? No, we we have Falcon

[1:38:48] models right now. Um those are the the

[1:38:51] ones that we have. Those are our

[1:38:52] contract. Um everything that I am seeing

[1:38:56] okay regarding Falcon there's no voice

[1:38:59] recognition. There's no facial

[1:39:00] recognition in that.

[1:39:02] >> Is there anything preventing the

[1:39:04] installation?

[1:39:06] >> We wouldn't sign a contract for a condor

[1:39:08] model. We can only sign for models.

[1:39:14] » Ian, to your point earlier, we can only

[1:39:17] search flock.

[1:39:19] >> Okay. So we can't search an ax on

[1:39:22] camera. We can't search

[1:39:23] >> not not via this not via this system.

[1:39:25] Not via the system.

[1:39:26] >> We don't we don't have a contract with

[1:39:28] them to search. So we don't have that

[1:39:30] data available to us.

[1:39:33] >> Correct.

[1:39:33] >> I have a question on the suggestions

[1:39:35] point about scope of the searches. Um,

[1:39:39] would that type of search, say red

[1:39:41] pickup truck and in Charleton, including

[1:39:44] outside of Charlton, could that

[1:39:46] constitute a drag net search that was

[1:39:49] deemed unconstitutional? The Fourth

[1:39:51] Amendment earlier this year, 63 in a

[1:39:54] Supreme Court case.

[1:39:57] >> I think you'd have to give me more. Uh,

[1:40:00] >> Anony's got a law degree, by the way,

[1:40:05] » but no, but I I see your concern. Okay.

[1:40:09] >> Um

[1:40:11] >> but I would say this to you. Okay. Who

[1:40:13] in the room doesn't have a smartphone?

[1:40:16] >> Okay.

[1:40:18] >> And that's what scares me more than

[1:40:20] anything else.

[1:40:22] >> No, I understand that.

[1:40:23] >> Carpenter 2018 Supreme Court case

[1:40:26] outlawed searches by location because

[1:40:29] you're not necessarily giving up your

[1:40:30] right to privacy um based on your

[1:40:33] location because a smartphone is a

[1:40:35] integral part of your life. there's a

[1:40:37] difference for vehicle.

[1:40:38] >> I'm not talking about that. I agree with

[1:40:40] you on that. It's a search warrant. It's

[1:40:41] a It's

[1:40:43] >> But my concern is the data that's in my

[1:40:46] phone. I can't control who it's being

[1:40:48] shared to. Okay. Um

[1:40:56] » No, you can't.

[1:40:58] >> I turn off everything in my phone. Okay.

[1:41:01] And I'll give you an example. Today we

[1:41:04] had a fingerprint installed. fingerprint

[1:41:06] machine installed in the station and I

[1:41:09] got an ad for card stock. Okay, I didn't

[1:41:13] Google anything. I didn't look anything

[1:41:14] up and there's something beyond what I

[1:41:17] can control that's that's doing that.

[1:41:20] Okay,

[1:41:21] >> but I think that's that's part of the

[1:41:22] point.

[1:41:23] >> It's actually part of these

[1:41:26] cameras. I think we need

[1:41:28] >> for one second. Okay. So, I I have a I

[1:41:34] don't know AOL email address. Okay.

[1:41:37] >> So, I have a Gmail.

[1:41:40] >> Gmail doesn't give me an insurance

[1:41:42] policy that my data is not

[1:41:45] >> gives us an insurance policy.

[1:41:46] >> They give us an insurance

[1:41:49] to the bone there.

[1:41:50] >> Um I don't know where my data is being

[1:41:53] shared or what have you. Um and I get

[1:41:57] concerned about that. Whereas talk at

[1:41:59] least gives me some assurance and I I do

[1:42:01] see your concern.

[1:42:03] >> I understand we talked for hours.

[1:42:05] >> Yes.

[1:42:05] >> And I'm willing to talk to anybody in

[1:42:07] the room and and

[1:42:08] >> I just think we need to understand that

[1:42:11] just like you and I had this

[1:42:12] conversation that this is larger than

[1:42:14] Charlton. We can certainly talk about

[1:42:17] the individual circumstances of a

[1:42:19] dementia patient or a lost child. We

[1:42:22] agree with all of that. But if that can

[1:42:24] be used have that how do I access it? I

[1:42:27] can't. Somebody goes missing. I can't

[1:42:29] blow her six months.

[1:42:31] >> We didn't have any of this and you were

[1:42:33] fine.

[1:42:34] >> No, no, we wouldn't be fine.

[1:42:35] >> We still solve crime and police still

[1:42:38] did their job. So, I think we have to be

[1:42:41] understanding that this the capacity of

[1:42:44] these cameras and you and I sat down and

[1:42:46] you showed me, do you remember how many

[1:42:48] outside agencies, police offic uh police

[1:42:52] departments and sheriff offices that

[1:42:54] you've told me how many access to our

[1:42:57] cameras.

[1:42:58] >> 119 of 120,000.

[1:43:00] >> Yes. And then you had like 50 more that

[1:43:03] you had to give permission.

[1:43:04] >> 15, right?

[1:43:05] >> 15.

[1:43:06] >> So you have 1,200 or almost 1,200

[1:43:09] outside agencies, not even to do with

[1:43:12] Charleton that have access to our

[1:43:14] cameras. And I think we need to

[1:43:16] understand what can they see, when can

[1:43:19] they see it, where what are they doing

[1:43:20] with

[1:43:22] a horrible picture. [laughter] It's not

[1:43:25] even

[1:43:25] >> the picture that the camera takes. It's

[1:43:27] not a

[1:43:28] >> We're getting where I think the two

[1:43:31] people on the side of the road walking

[1:43:33] in old home day. I could see everything.

[1:43:35] I could see the dog. I could see

[1:43:37] everything in the picture. So, I don't

[1:43:38] >> How about the ring cameras? Do you got

[1:43:40] you have a ring cameras on your house?

[1:43:42] >> No,

[1:43:44] we're getting a little We're getting a

[1:43:45] little What? I'm

[1:43:46] >> I guess what I'm hoping is that we can

[1:43:48] before you vote. There's a lot of

[1:43:51] information that was not included. I

[1:43:52] sent you an email a couple days ago.

[1:43:54] Still have not got that information

[1:43:56] regarding my public records request. Um,

[1:43:59] what outside agencies can search or

[1:44:01] request Charlton's data? Does Charlton

[1:44:04] approve each outside search individually

[1:44:06] or do some agencies have continuing

[1:44:08] access? Can Charlton audit every outside

[1:44:11] search including who conducted it and

[1:44:14] why? I know you get a case and they say,

[1:44:16] "We need to see this. Why?" Okay. And

[1:44:18] then I think the town needs to

[1:44:20] understand you showed me one camera on

[1:44:24] Stafford Street in a 30-day period

[1:44:27] >> licensed or took pictures of a half a

[1:44:30] million different well not different

[1:44:34] half a million pictures. Yes.

[1:44:37] >> Half a million pictures of us.

[1:44:40] >> Right. And only of your car.

[1:44:43] No. Do you?

[1:44:44] >> Huh?

[1:44:44] >> Of your license plate.

[1:44:46] of the entire car.

[1:44:48] >> You can see the entire back of the car,

[1:44:51] not the license plate. If I'm if I am

[1:44:55] driving, if the if the picture is taken

[1:44:58] once every six seconds or six every 1

[1:45:01] seconds, you are going to get a picture

[1:45:03] of me

[1:45:04] >> in that if I go the same speed or a

[1:45:07] different speed. So, you can't just be

[1:45:09] careful with making those blanket

[1:45:11] statements because

[1:45:13] >> I know it doesn't intend pictures of

[1:45:16] people, but it does. And again, this is

[1:45:19] all we're asking for is transparency to

[1:45:21] be able to have this.

[1:45:23] >> You're you're actually you're actually

[1:45:24] not asking for transparency. We're

[1:45:26] trying to give you that. You're asking

[1:45:27] for You're asking to get rid of them is

[1:45:29] what you're asking.

[1:45:30] >> Well, I'm asking to get rid of them

[1:45:31] because we don't have the transparency.

[1:45:33] We don't

[1:45:34] >> If we can just if we can just hold that

[1:45:36] thought right there. Now there was some

[1:45:39] there was when we brought up the idea of

[1:45:41] training or or a seminar we could show

[1:45:43] people that I I was looking at a lot of

[1:45:46] people nodding their heads an

[1:45:47] educational format where people could do

[1:45:49] that. We saw it and we were convinced

[1:45:52] that it's not a threat. It's not I'm I

[1:45:54] don't like big government. I don't like

[1:45:58] >> big government looking down on me. I big

[1:46:01] brother all of that stuff. I don't like

[1:46:03] that. And and I'm sure and the chief

[1:46:05] that is not what this is. That is not

[1:46:07] what this is.

[1:46:09] >> I think I'm sorry, Steve.

[1:46:10] >> No.

[1:46:10] >> I think when these came out two years

[1:46:12] ago and there's been zero incidences

[1:46:15] here in Charlton of anybody abusing

[1:46:17] anything.

[1:46:17] >> That's not true.

[1:46:19] >> Yes, it is.

[1:46:24] » Correct.

[1:46:26] Nobody Nobody has abused the

[1:46:28] cameras themselves.

[1:46:29] >> What do you mean abused the cameras?

[1:46:31] using them to find the chief's example

[1:46:33] of somebody cheating on somebody's wife

[1:46:35] or husband or whatever it is. There

[1:46:36] hasn't been any of that.

[1:46:38] >> Me personally, Charleston had to pay a

[1:46:42] me personally. What I experienced not

[1:46:45] you know what on that what we haven't

[1:46:46] talked about yet of the policy that's in place that the chief put in

[1:46:50] two years ago. There were five five

[1:46:53] reasons you can log into the system and

[1:46:55] five and more than five that you can't.

[1:46:58] And the ones that you can't are

[1:47:00] immigration purposes. There's a lot on

[1:47:01] there that you'd actually like to read.

[1:47:04] >> I have it, but it does it's not accurate

[1:47:06] like

[1:47:07] >> it's not accurate because you don't

[1:47:09] understand it or it's not accurate dates

[1:47:10] of when the policy who signed the policy

[1:47:13] and then what are the you know uh

[1:47:15] punishments if you will? What's the

[1:47:17] accountability in the policy?

[1:47:19] >> If if it's misused, you're saying what's

[1:47:23] the accountability? No, that would be a disciplinary action from

[1:47:27] the chief, but for sure.

[1:47:29] >> I know, but it's just not in the policy

[1:47:31] >> because it hasn't happened. Well, that

[1:47:32] hasn't Well, maybe we that I'm I don't I

[1:47:35] can't speak for him on that, but

[1:47:37] >> I also think we haven't heard enough of

[1:47:38] the good things that that the flot

[1:47:40] cameras have done for us.

[1:47:42] >> Like I don't know how many people have

[1:47:44] heard what happened at Bayath just last

[1:47:46] week.

[1:47:49] >> Have you? My son was in that class.

[1:47:52] >> Yes, I

[1:47:52] >> at that evening. And

[1:47:54] >> there was a shooter in route to cameras

[1:47:56] probably I would probably have no sound

[1:47:58] didn't help that

[1:48:00] >> that's how they caught the suspect

[1:48:02] >> and you certainly at that period

[1:48:06] >> Brown University and MIT that's how they

[1:48:08] caught it Marvin Antoine that just

[1:48:10] passed away last weekend at the football

[1:48:12] game down in in in Rhode Island or UMass

[1:48:15] Dartmouth he was stabbed to death flock

[1:48:18] helped catch that killer

[1:48:20] >> well I was a lot of good

[1:48:24] I am telling you I'm the mother. I'm I'm

[1:48:26] not speaking as the select board member.

[1:48:29] My son was in that class on No, you

[1:48:32] don't. Do you did you have a son in that

[1:48:34] class? No, you didn't. And because of

[1:48:36] those fl No, you don't. And in because

[1:48:39] of the flaw camera,

[1:48:41] >> call it whatever you want. I have a son

[1:48:44] tonight and that's it on that topic

[1:48:47] because Yes.

[1:48:49] >> Because because of that. So from because

[1:48:52] he never made it to the school

[1:48:53] apprehended him and

[1:48:54] >> the FBI was involved with the social

[1:48:56] media.

[1:48:57] >> Basha, please we can just try to try to

[1:48:59] get this back.

[1:49:01] >> Try to get this back on to some

[1:49:02] measurable outcome.

[1:49:04] >> FBI picked up something about a

[1:49:06] potential shooting.

[1:49:08] They reached out to our police

[1:49:10] department. They started to set up their

[1:49:13] standout points. That's how they tracked

[1:49:15] this guy. They they knew who made the

[1:49:18] post. They know where he was going

[1:49:20] because he was a student

[1:49:24] and that's how they caught him.

[1:49:25] >> He never made it to the school and you

[1:49:27] never heard about it because it wasn't

[1:49:29] technically an incident

[1:49:30] >> whether we had flock or not. They still

[1:49:31] would have done that to do with

[1:49:36] that because they he was apprehended.

[1:49:38] >> It is a it is it is a it's a tool in

[1:49:40] their tool box. It's not there.

[1:49:42] >> It's not the you don't understand

[1:49:44] >> about who else has access.

[1:49:46] >> All right. So is there you you sat

[1:49:49] through the presentation. You know who

[1:49:51] else has access.

[1:49:52] >> Is there a way

[1:49:53] >> but but on that note how many so moving

[1:49:55] forward and the chief I don't want to

[1:49:57] throw this on you but would you you and

[1:50:00] would you guys be willing to do some

[1:50:02] type of a demonstration somewhere?

[1:50:04] >> Yeah we were talking in the hall when

[1:50:05] you mentioned it. Um you

[1:50:07] >> I could he asked me the chief asked

[1:50:10] could you do a demonstration right here

[1:50:12] and

[1:50:12] >> not this second camera. You know

[1:50:15] >> the problem I have is that I need a

[1:50:16] secure IP address in order to use the

[1:50:19] camera. And we don't have a secure IP

[1:50:22] address here. Otherwise, I could I could

[1:50:25] do something for you. But we could

[1:50:27] definitely set something up if people

[1:50:28] would be interested.

[1:50:29] >> Oh,

[1:50:29] >> every time every time they log in,

[1:50:31] there's a multiffactor authentification

[1:50:33] or authentication that has to go through

[1:50:35] if he uses a different laptop or cell

[1:50:37] phone or however they get in. There's

[1:50:38] multiple layers of security for them to

[1:50:40] even get in.

[1:50:41] >> Yes, definitely.

[1:50:41] >> No, the the cell phone gives me the

[1:50:43] second authentication.

[1:50:45] 10 or 12 at a time to the chief in South

[1:50:48] Bridge.

[1:50:49] >> I'm sorry.

[1:50:49] >> Have you spoken to the chief in South

[1:50:51] Brbridge?

[1:50:52] >> Yes, I've had conversations with him.

[1:50:54] >> Do you know why he discontinued

[1:50:56] the block?

[1:50:57] >> Well, at some point the um the juice

[1:50:59] isn't worth the squeeze if he was going

[1:51:01] to get attacked and everything, but

[1:51:04] >> he got attacked as far as the usage of

[1:51:07] it saying, "Hey, this is we don't want

[1:51:08] it."

[1:51:10] >> But but

[1:51:12] at some point in time, you know, public

[1:51:14] opinion

[1:51:15] But he has expressed that they've

[1:51:18] utilized ours as far as calling us and

[1:51:20] saying, "Hey, we're looking for a

[1:51:21] vehicle that just took off. We just

[1:51:23] apprehended somebody that was involved

[1:51:25] in a shooting the other night."

[1:51:28] >> Old home day. There was a vehicle that

[1:51:29] drove by a stolen place from Georgia.

[1:51:32] Every day there's something that can be

[1:51:34] caught on these

[1:51:36] >> and and there's more good than bad.

[1:51:38] crime and all the details.

[1:51:42] >> At what capacity is the town going to be

[1:51:44] held if there's a lawsuit

[1:51:46] >> from why why would there be a lawsuit?

[1:51:48] >> Well, like there's been almost a hundred

[1:51:50] cases across the country, okay, of

[1:51:54] situations where the camera's been used

[1:51:56] in an incapacity where it was wrongfully

[1:51:59] charging the person.

[1:52:01] >> I don't know. I'm just speaking I I

[1:52:04] don't know of any in Massachusetts where

[1:52:06] that's happened. Okay. But if we got a a

[1:52:10] hit on a motor vehicle uh off a license

[1:52:12] plate, the officer is going to run that

[1:52:14] license plate, confirm it. He's going to

[1:52:16] visually confir he or she is going to

[1:52:18] visually confirm it before they make a

[1:52:20] stop. Okay.

[1:52:21] >> Obviously, but like in the in the grand

[1:52:23] scheme of like the big picture, right?

[1:52:26] How is there 100 incidences already?

[1:52:29] Right.

[1:52:29] >> We don't I don't know that.

[1:52:31] >> Why haven't you looked that up? You

[1:52:32] trust what they tell you from? Because because we're we're because

[1:52:35] we're in the Troutton town hall

[1:52:37] discussing the town of Charlton.

[1:52:40] >> That's something we can verify locally.

[1:52:42] We verify

[1:52:43] >> any local news reports or any any of

[1:52:46] course we do. Of course we do. Do you do you watch on the same do you

[1:52:50] watch the ones where there's a positive

[1:52:52] that that have been coming out?

[1:52:54] >> Now there seems to be a shift in the

[1:52:56] media now. You're seeing news news

[1:52:58] channels even locally pick up flock and

[1:53:00] some of the good things about it.

[1:53:01] finally

[1:53:03] and they're talking about cases being

[1:53:05] solved. The hype is going on. It's I'm really convinced it's an educational

[1:53:10] idea.

[1:53:11] >> I I was on the same side.

[1:53:13] >> Well, we're wrong. Like I said, I am

[1:53:14] limited in space, so I can't put 40

[1:53:16] people and and there's no way you can

[1:53:21] beative actions from Flock. I don't

[1:53:24] understand you in the past two weeks,

[1:53:25] you haven't looked it up. I mean, you

[1:53:26] might not believe everything, but

[1:53:27] there's all suicide.

[1:53:28] >> I'm on social media all the time. I see

[1:53:30] the negative hype, but but I but I've

[1:53:33] also been going through the training and

[1:53:35] there were people laughing when I said

[1:53:36] it doesn't do voice recognition. It the

[1:53:39] cameras we have it does not. There were

[1:53:41] people laughing when I said that. There

[1:53:43] were still people laughing when I

[1:53:48] movements. You have the license plate.

[1:53:50] >> It is a snapshot of a it's not

[1:53:54] >> but it doesn't but it doesn't look it

[1:53:56] doesn't private companies that

[1:53:59] information. The police can pinch your

[1:54:01] phone and find you so much easier.

[1:54:04] >> Same with the ring. Same with the social

[1:54:06] media. You people.

[1:54:07] >> All right. We haven't given this.

[1:54:09] >> If we get some more to hear, um Karen

[1:54:11] would like to speak and we haven't let

[1:54:13] her

[1:54:13] >> I've actually said haven't said a word

[1:54:15] yet.

[1:54:16] >> So, I think what this board needs to

[1:54:18] think about is

[1:54:21] this is this is we have a citizens

[1:54:23] petition. If this passes or doesn't

[1:54:26] pass, how are we going to react to that?

[1:54:28] because as far as I'm concerned and

[1:54:31] again they're great talking points

[1:54:32] tonight and I encourage everyone to you

[1:54:34] know become more informed so we can all

[1:54:37] have make a again an educated informed

[1:54:39] decision that night but at the end of

[1:54:42] the day this I can speak for myself and

[1:54:45] I want to know how the town's people

[1:54:47] feel because you are the ones that again

[1:54:50] I I referenced that org chart early on

[1:54:53] you're our boss bosses as far as I'm

[1:54:55] concerned and what you say at town

[1:54:57] meeting speaks loudly at least to me.

[1:54:59] But you're going to know both sides of

[1:55:01] it. The you decision regardless of what

[1:55:05] it is and our decision comes with

[1:55:07] consequences. Just get informed. But I

[1:55:10] and again I think we need to decide you

[1:55:12] know if I know it's a non-binding

[1:55:14] question. Non-binding question means if

[1:55:15] even if it passes that we're not

[1:55:17] obligated to take any action because

[1:55:20] it's non-binding.

[1:55:22] But I think we are obligated

[1:55:25] to do so because it's in the spirit of

[1:55:27] the question. We should in my opinion

[1:55:30] abide by what the town's people want.

[1:55:33] >> I and I think I I not saying I disagree

[1:55:37] with you, but but I think the problem a

[1:55:40] lot of the problem is people what what

[1:55:42] they're what they what they're

[1:55:44] understanding isn't the factual

[1:55:46] >> understood. Education is important and I

[1:55:49] think there's a way we can do it. I

[1:55:51] don't know how It's just what is that we

[1:55:54] have to decide on?

[1:55:55] >> I think

[1:55:57] >> so maybe does does this board want to

[1:56:00] move forward with any kind of motion

[1:56:03] regarding the outcome if this motion if

[1:56:06] the cition motion passes

[1:56:10] >> fill in the blank do we want to then

[1:56:12] pause or you want to wait

[1:56:14] >> I don't think he wants by the citizens

[1:56:16] decision I think he wants to

[1:56:19] make choice himself

[1:56:23] I was just trying to kind of contain it

[1:56:24] a little bit. And again, this is I think

[1:56:26] that we all I think the consensus is in

[1:56:28] this room that our Charlton Police

[1:56:30] Department really does a great job and

[1:56:32] we have confidence it's it's all the

[1:56:34] other unknowns out there. I I I get it.

[1:56:36] Good points made on both sides. But

[1:56:39] >> that's any I already said it and then

[1:56:41] >> I I I'm pretty firm on the Mike was a

[1:56:44] perfect example. Mike was like a lot of

[1:56:46] people in this room right now a month

[1:56:49] ago and he sat through the training and him and I we argued about it and

[1:56:54] then I said fine let's go get some

[1:56:55] training and then it once you see what's

[1:56:58] available for and the the usefulness of

[1:57:00] the tool

[1:57:02] >> I I asked I'm sorry I asked multiple

[1:57:04] questions to everybody that was there

[1:57:07] involved and and I did ask about uh the

[1:57:09] threeletter agencies and if they had

[1:57:11] access and they don't. Um there was a

[1:57:14] lot of questions that I had I'm sorry.

[1:57:15] Which three?

[1:57:17] >> The threeletter agencies. N any of them.

[1:57:20] >> FBI, CIA, ICE, NH, NHS,

[1:57:23] >> any of them.

[1:57:26] >> Has I showed you four searches

[1:57:30] >> in the month?

[1:57:31] Okay. All have a reason.

[1:57:33] all have something associated with

[1:57:34] >> time, date, stamped receipts,

[1:57:36] >> but they don't have

[1:57:37] >> Would you agree that that was the only

[1:57:39] that and the US Postal Service and I

[1:57:40] explained to you those were the only

[1:57:43] ones that had a search in there

[1:57:46] >> for the last 30 days,

[1:57:49] >> right?

[1:57:50] >> You don't have that information. You

[1:57:51] couldn't give me the information before

[1:57:53] that. I asked for it, but you couldn't

[1:57:54] give it to me because I lose it for

[1:57:56] >> the last 30 days. Well, you have

[1:57:59] >> we should individual conversations here,

[1:58:01] but I don't have off the top of my head.

[1:58:07] » All right, this

[1:58:10] >> we I think we could sit here and go have

[1:58:13] this back and forth go all night. I

[1:58:15] think the um

[1:58:17] what's before the board. It's obviously

[1:58:20] the it's going to be on the the article

[1:58:23] is going to be on town meeting,

[1:58:25] >> right?

[1:58:27] non-binding article and what are the

[1:58:29] wishes of this board. I really encourage

[1:58:32] people to take

[1:58:35] to however we do it some type of

[1:58:37] educational

[1:58:39] to attend it with an open mind and and

[1:58:43] it can't be if if it if it's an hourong

[1:58:46] presentation and there's bickering going

[1:58:48] back and forth that's going to be a

[1:58:50] three-hour long presentation. We don't

[1:58:51] want that. just come in and listen and for an hour if you do it 15 people

[1:58:57] at a time. Is there any way you can do

[1:59:00] it in a room this size?

[1:59:02] >> Sure, I could. I just have to do some

[1:59:04] work. Yes.

[1:59:05] >> In in order to get the IT the IT part of

[1:59:08] it and just put something together

[1:59:09] that's

[1:59:10] >> what works better what works better for

[1:59:12] people. Is it evening or is it daytime?

[1:59:14] Is it

[1:59:14] >> you can probably size this and see

[1:59:16] >> there's only 15 at a time multiple sess.

[1:59:19] I don't know if we find a bigger venue,

[1:59:20] but it's the

[1:59:21] >> Dexter Hall IP address the IP a secure

[1:59:23] IP address is my biggest hangup.

[1:59:25] >> I think a room this size is probably I

[1:59:27] think that's just

[1:59:33] here.

[1:59:33] >> So, I just I don't want to do the groups.

[1:59:38] >> I just have to find a place that can

[1:59:40] handle. So,

[1:59:41] >> you know, you know, we could we could do

[1:59:42] it here and this room is already all

[1:59:44] televised. People would be able to watch

[1:59:46] it from home. We got to make sure the

[1:59:47] >> the IP address.

[1:59:48] >> Yes. Why don't we get back on that?

[1:59:50] >> I asked if we could use this room

[1:59:52] because I just thought it would be

[1:59:53] easier.

[1:59:53] >> No, it it does make Yeah, it does make

[1:59:55] sense. And you you could actually people

[1:59:56] could almost zoom in with a question if

[1:59:58] they're at home with a question as well.

[1:59:59] >> And to be honest with you, I could zoom

[2:00:01] in people from that would be more

[2:00:03] beneficial.

[2:00:03] >> That would be excellent.

[2:00:04] >> Mr. Chair,

[2:00:06] is it is there a possibility that we

[2:00:09] could or you could sorry you the board

[2:00:14] could at least vote tonight to not

[2:00:19] install the other four cameras um before

[2:00:23] the town makes a decision. I don't know

[2:00:25] if that's I I

[2:00:27] >> I would take a I would I would take a

[2:00:29] motion right now that

[2:00:30] >> I'd prefer myself not to make any

[2:00:34] changes until

[2:00:36] >> training education is completed and if

[2:00:38] there's further questions or further I

[2:00:42] definitely don't want these around then

[2:00:43] we can take it from there but I don't

[2:00:45] where these things are bought and paid

[2:00:47] for and they're up and they're working

[2:00:48] and the contract is already going even

[2:00:50] if we took the

[2:00:51] >> cameras down still paying the contract

[2:00:54] In fact, it could not.

[2:00:57] >> We don't even have them.

[2:00:58] >> We're not going to get any.

[2:01:00] >> But is it Can you put that in a formal

[2:01:02] motion?

[2:01:03] >> Put that in as a motion.

[2:01:05] >> I'm uh Yeah, I make the motion to not

[2:01:08] make any changes until we have uh either

[2:01:10] an online Zoom or an education class uh

[2:01:13] given by the police department and

[2:01:15] potentially flock if they can get

[2:01:16] involved

[2:01:17] >> and see how many participation

[2:01:18] >> there was that last there was a

[2:01:20] gentleman from Flock that was going to

[2:01:21] be in the area.

[2:01:23] until after the vote on it.

[2:01:26] >> We have a motion. Do we have a second on

[2:01:28] that not to take a second?

[2:01:30] >> Just

[2:01:31] >> for for

[2:01:32] >> So we have a motion and a second not to

[2:01:34] take any action tonight.

[2:01:36] >> Um do we have a vote?

[2:01:38] >> I talked conversation discussion usually

[2:01:40] happens after the motion and the second

[2:01:42] Mr. Chairman.

[2:01:44] >> Okay. So, regarding this motion, um, why

[2:01:48] are we taking any action on anything

[2:01:50] until when we I I personally would like

[2:01:52] to see everything paused until after

[2:01:54] town meeting. I'm not sure why we have

[2:01:56] to double down on saying we're not going

[2:01:58] to do something.

[2:02:01] >> I I I'm just not understanding the need.

[2:02:03] >> We're just not The motion was not to

[2:02:04] take any action tonight.

[2:02:05] >> Correct.

[2:02:06] >> That's that's very clear.

[2:02:08] >> Well, I think we should commit to

[2:02:09] something.

[2:02:12] Well, I I think we should commit to

[2:02:14] something if I I personally want to

[2:02:16] know.

[2:02:16] >> No, no, no, no. We're actually following

[2:02:18] your request. You you wanted us to take

[2:02:22] a vote tonight,

[2:02:23] >> okay,

[2:02:24] >> to either do one of the three things,

[2:02:26] >> right?

[2:02:27] >> And we're taking a vote on that on your

[2:02:29] request.

[2:02:30] >> That's about as fair as you can get

[2:02:32] action. So, we have a motion and a

[2:02:34] second

[2:02:34] >> to to not to not move forward with

[2:02:36] anything

[2:02:37] >> not to install until

[2:02:39] >> until after the education and the people

[2:02:41] that showed up here tonight.

[2:02:42] >> Oh, so we're not going to I say it

[2:02:43] wasn't clear. It wasn't

[2:02:45] >> we're not going to install anything.

[2:02:47] >> We don't have anything to install.

[2:02:49] >> We don't have the cameras yet.

[2:02:50] >> I'm misunderstanding.

[2:02:51] >> If they come tomorrow, you could install

[2:02:53] them based on your motion right here.

[2:02:55] >> Chief, have they been

[2:02:56] >> I'm not I I believe the last time we

[2:02:58] audited cameras, it took till like

[2:02:59] November. So, I'm not anticipating them

[2:03:01] being in and obviously in a spirit of

[2:03:03] fairness, I would hold off until you

[2:03:06] have your moment. And

[2:03:08] >> so, I mean,

[2:03:08] >> so amend my motion to after the class in

[2:03:11] the educational course to not install

[2:03:13] the new cameras until this has been

[2:03:16] resolved.

[2:03:16] >> Yes.

[2:03:17] >> Until after town meeting.

[2:03:19] >> After town meeting.

[2:03:20] >> That would

[2:03:21] >> Yeah, after town meeting. I go

[2:03:23] >> Well, no. Is that then we know what the

[2:03:26] >> actually not to

[2:03:29] >> your first motion was

[2:03:31] >> I was trying to appease.

[2:03:33] >> Yeah.

[2:03:34] >> Well, no, but that's

[2:03:35] >> you can you can pull it back. We can you

[2:03:38] can resend it and then resend it and

[2:03:40] then make the right decision.

[2:03:41] >> I I would I would be a little less

[2:03:44] definitive. I I would

[2:03:47] >> just hold the topic in a

[2:03:50] >> just hold it into a bayance for right

[2:03:51] now.

[2:03:53] >> Do it. table it.

[2:03:55] >> Make a motion to table the subject.

[2:03:58] >> Second.

[2:04:00] >> All in favor?

[2:04:01] >> I

[2:04:04] tableling

[2:04:04] >> tableabling the subject.

[2:04:05] >> I trust that the chief won't install it

[2:04:07] before the meeting.

[2:04:12] » Can I just ask for planning purposes? Um

[2:04:16] does an evening meeting or daytime

[2:04:18] meeting what works better for the

[2:04:19] majority of people?

[2:04:22] one in the day and one at night.

[2:04:24] >> I can work on that.

[2:04:26] >> Some people that can get through it.

[2:04:28] >> I totally understand that. That's why

[2:04:30] I'm asking the question.

[2:04:30] >> Can the meeting be taped and played over

[2:04:34] and over again the same way

[2:04:36] like board meetings can be played over

[2:04:38] and over again?

[2:04:39] >> The only thing is people wouldn't have

[2:04:41] the opportunity to ask questions if I

[2:04:42] was able to block it if

[2:04:44] >> but there'll be enough other questions

[2:04:46] recorded.

[2:04:46] >> That's fair. Can they bring data of how

[2:04:49] this actually is helped like proving it

[2:04:51] rather than just sales pitches?

[2:04:53] >> I can

[2:04:54] actually even going on the internet you

[2:04:57] can't find it anywhere just

[2:05:00] chief of police over here. No offense

[2:05:02] but you know

[2:05:05] >> okay if we can if we can um take those

[2:05:08] conversations off the we could still be

[2:05:12] appreciate they're good questions and

[2:05:14] we'll come out with some dates. Who do

[2:05:16] we

[2:05:17] um disseminate the information to?

[2:05:19] Michelle, I'm assuming you know all

[2:05:21] these you have access to

[2:05:25] >> what would be the best way to do

[2:05:28] >> state.

[2:05:31] » What we're going to do, we're probably

[2:05:33] going to have to limit it to the amount

[2:05:34] of people we can fit in this room.

[2:05:36] >> Why can't we use a larger space?

[2:05:39] >> Why can't we use school or any other places?

[2:05:42] >> The IP address is what he was concerned

[2:05:44] with. How about we see the participation

[2:05:48] IP address for more? We do another one.

[2:05:50] >> The odds of doing the IP address here on

[2:05:53] the town network

[2:05:55] >> is one thing, but then we also have the

[2:05:56] recording capabilities here in Zoom and

[2:05:58] all that right in this room. The schools

[2:06:00] don't have that. You can't you can't do

[2:06:02] a presentation at town meetings.

[2:06:03] >> So like the library [snorts]

[2:06:04] meeting room, I don't know if I have a

[2:06:06] cell connection there. We definitely

[2:06:08] don't have recording capability there.

[2:06:09] Right.

[2:06:10] >> Upstairs. I don't think so.

[2:06:19] What' you say,

[2:06:20] >> Drew?

[2:06:25] » Oh, in the deck server.

[2:06:28] >> If the IP address, why don't you look

[2:06:30] into that a little bit? Yeah.

[2:06:33] >> Computer.

[2:06:35] >> I really think education is the is the

[2:06:37] key. And there's still going to be some

[2:06:38] people that are going to believe what

[2:06:40] they've been believing for the last 90

[2:06:43] days and it's not due to that.

[2:06:47] But it but there are people that it will

[2:06:49] change.

[2:06:53] So, is there

[2:07:00] » one we're going to

[2:07:06] » Okay, gentlemen, you're

[2:07:07] >> done. Am I out of the lines yet?

[2:07:10] >> Thank you, Chief.

[2:07:11] >> Thank you.

[2:07:12] >> Um, chief chief police chief of police

[2:07:14] contract coming up. [laughter]

[2:07:19] >> I'll be grayer.

[2:07:23] What what do we have left?

[2:07:25] >> We have the town administrators report.

[2:07:27] >> All right. Beautiful updates.

[2:07:32] First of all, financial reporting. For

[2:07:34] the second year in a row, the town of

[2:07:36] Charlton has been awarded the government finance officers association

[2:07:40] certificate of achievement for

[2:07:42] excellence in financial reporting.

[2:07:44] Ashley,

[2:07:46] >> great work. the queen.

[2:07:49] >> Make sure she got her flowers tonight.

[2:07:52] >> Excellent.

[2:07:53] >> All right. Uh, fire substation. We're

[2:07:56] nearing the completion of this fire

[2:07:57] substation project on Oxford Road.

[2:07:59] There's still a considerable amount of

[2:08:00] work to be done within the building in a

[2:08:02] very short time frame. And by very

[2:08:04] short, I mean like a week and a half.

[2:08:06] Uh, currently substantial completion is

[2:08:08] targeted for October 2nd. This week,

[2:08:10] just about all trades are wrapping up

[2:08:12] their work in anticipation of final

[2:08:14] balancing and testing of systems to be

[2:08:16] completed next week. Obviously, dealing

[2:08:18] with all those little snafoos that, you

[2:08:20] know, all these projects have. Uh, but

[2:08:24] once we reach the final completion,

[2:08:25] we'll start moving furniture and

[2:08:27] equipment into the building.

[2:08:29] >> That's awesome.

[2:08:30] >> And then, uh, master plan. So, the

[2:08:32] master planning committee has been

[2:08:33] meeting regularly to develop an um

[2:08:36] community outreach strategy in support

[2:08:37] of the master plan. On October 18th, the

[2:08:40] committee will be hosting a community

[2:08:41] meeting uh to help inform the

[2:08:43] development of the master plan. It'll be

[2:08:45] at Dexter Hall over at the library. Uh

[2:08:48] probably I believe it's going to be for

[2:08:50] six o'clock at night. So, we'll have

[2:08:51] additional information on the town

[2:08:53] website in advance of that meeting, but

[2:08:55] more to come. That's what I got.

[2:08:57] >> That's it.

[2:08:58] >> Thank you.

[2:09:01] Select board requests for future agenda

[2:09:03] items.

[2:09:05] >> Please say no.

[2:09:10] » Non-binding, but please say no.

[2:09:12] >> Not binding.

[2:09:15] >> Okay.

[2:09:16] And then next meeting

[2:09:17] announcement,

[2:09:19] Dudley Charlton special election,

[2:09:21] September 29th, 2026,

[2:09:23] >> 12:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. 8:00 p.m. Note

[2:09:26] that different times, 12 to 8 at

[2:09:28] Heritage School. Next regular meeting of

[2:09:30] the select board will be October 13th,

[2:09:32] 2026,

[2:09:34] 6:30 p.m. right here. And the special

[2:09:37] town meeting is October 19th at 7 p.m.

[2:09:40] Charlton Middle School. And I would

[2:09:42] accept a motion to adjurnn.

[2:09:44] >> Motion to adjurnn.

[2:09:45] >> Second.

[2:09:46] >> All in favor?

[2:09:47] >> I.

Select Board Meeting September 22, 2026

Transcript