[1:01] you know.

[6:12] Good morning everyone.

[6:13] My name is rudy louijeune,

[6:14] at-large city councilor and I

[6:16] am the vice chair of the boston

[6:16] city council committee on

[6:18] government operations.

[6:19] And I will be conducting

[6:20] today's hearing in the chair's

[6:21] absence.

[6:24] Today is AUGUST 11th, 2026.

[6:27] The exact time is 10:06 A.M..

[6:28] This hearing is being recorded

[6:29] .

[6:31] It is also being live

[6:32] streamed@boston.Gov for the

[6:35] city council dash tv and

[6:37] broadcast on channel eight rcn

[6:41] channel 82 fios channel 964.

[6:43] Written comments MAY be sent to

[6:46] the committee email at kcc

[6:47] doggo@boston.Gov and will be

[6:49] made a part of the record and

[6:50] available to all councilors.

[6:52] Public testimony will be taken

[6:53] at the end of this hearing.

[6:54] Individuals will be called on

[6:56] in the order in which they

[6:57] signed up and will have two

[6:58] minutes to testify.

[6:59] If you are interested in

[7:01] testifying in person, please

[7:02] add your name to the sign up

[7:03] sheet near the entrance of the

[7:04] chamber.

[7:05] If you are looking to testify

[7:07] virtually, please email our

[7:08] central staff liaison megan

[7:10] cavanaugh right here.

[7:13] Um at megan dawn

[7:13] cavanaugh@boston.Gov.

[7:16] That's nega and bless you.

[7:19] Cavanaugh cavanagh.

[7:22] H I boston.Gov for the link and

[7:23] your name will be added to the

[7:24] list.

[7:25] Today's hearing is on docket

[7:27] number 1541.

[7:29] Ordinance establishing minimum

[7:30] training requirements for

[7:31] unarmed security guards.

[7:33] This matter is sponsored by

[7:34] councilors henry santana and

[7:34] richard louijeune.

[7:36] It was referred to the

[7:38] committee on AUGUST 5th, 2026.

[7:40] Today I'm joined by my

[7:41] colleagues and or whatever

[7:43] rival councilor aaron murphy,

[7:45] councilor ed flynn,

[7:46] council PRESIDENT Liz creighton

[7:48] ,councilor santana and

[7:51] councilor durkan, um and

[7:52] councilor fitzgerald.

[7:53] Uh we will start with opening

[7:53] statements.

[7:55] I will give the lead sponsor

[7:56] three minutes for opening

[7:57] statements and my colleagues

[7:58] two minutes if they'd like to

[7:59] offer opening statements.

[8:01] The chair recognizes, uh, the

[8:02] lead sponsor, councilor santana

[8:03] .

[8:05] Good morning everyone and thank

[8:06] you, vice chair louijeune.

[8:08] First I want to thank my

[8:09] colleagues, um, the

[8:12] administration 32 bjj um and

[8:13] most importantly the workers

[8:14] who are here today.

[8:17] We are here because this is not

[8:17] just a conversation about

[8:18] training.

[8:19] It is a conversation about

[8:21] public safety, worker

[8:22] protection and our

[8:23] responsibility as a city to

[8:25] make sure the people we depend

[8:27] on are properly prepared and

[8:27] protected.

[8:29] The voices of the workers on

[8:31] the front lines must be at the

[8:32] center of this discussion.

[8:33] I look forward to working

[8:35] together to find meaningful

[8:36] path forward for boston.

[8:39] Public safety begins with

[8:41] preparedness every day unarmed

[8:42] security guards serve on the

[8:44] front lines of our communities

[8:47] protecting people and um,

[8:48] protecting people and

[8:49] properties in hospitals,

[8:51] residential buildings,

[8:53] workplaces, businesses and

[8:53] public spaces.

[8:55] They are often the first to

[8:56] respond to medical emergencies

[8:59] ,mental health crises,

[8:59] overdoses and conflicts.

[9:02] Yet in boston there are

[9:03] currently no minimum training

[9:04] requirements for unarmed

[9:05] security guards.

[9:07] We cannot expect people to

[9:09] respond to emergencies,

[9:10] de-escalate conflicts and

[9:11] protect others without ensuring

[9:13] they have the proper training

[9:15] and tools to do the job safely

[9:16] and effectively.

[9:18] Establishing minimum standards

[9:21] in areas such as cpr first aid

[9:24] overdose, overdose response,

[9:25] de-escalation, behavioral

[9:26] health and emergency

[9:28] preparedness is an investment

[9:29] in both workers and the

[9:31] communities they serve as a

[9:32] city council.

[9:34] We have a responsibility to

[9:35] examine whether boston can

[9:37] establish a reasonable baseline

[9:39] of training for those who are

[9:41] often first on the scene.

[9:42] If we expect them to protect

[9:44] our communities, we must make

[9:45] sure they are prepared to do

[9:45] so.

[9:47] This is how we build safer

[9:48] workplaces, protect our workers

[9:50] and create safer boston for

[9:50] everyone.

[9:51] Thank you.

[9:53] Thank you, councilor santana.

[9:54] The chair recognizes

[9:54] councilor murphy.

[9:56] You have the floor and two

[9:56] minutes.

[9:58] Morning.

[10:01] >> um, thank you everyone for

[10:01] being here.

[10:02] I'm looking forward to hearing

[10:06] from jody about more about

[10:06] this.

[10:08] This was just filed last week.

[10:08] We're here.

[10:09] It's quick turnaround.

[10:11] I just want to get on record

[10:13] before we learn more about this

[10:14] that I support.

[10:15] Always support appropriate

[10:16] training that protects all

[10:17] of our workers.

[10:19] So she has security guards in

[10:21] the public worker protection is

[10:23] very important and thank you

[10:24] jody I know we've had many

[10:26] hearings over these years.

[10:27] I've been on the council making

[10:29] sure we are doing everything we

[10:30] can on the council and whatever

[10:32] powers we have to make sure

[10:34] that our workers are protected.

[10:38] Um I do um you know this

[10:39] proposal and when I read

[10:42] through it it will impose 40

[10:44] hours of initial exclusively

[10:45] in-person training eight hours

[10:48] annually employer paid tuition

[10:49] and wages, annual permitting

[10:52] and reporting and penalties

[10:53] of $300 per guard per day.

[10:56] Those are substantial mandates.

[10:59] Um, I'm hoping after I hear all

[11:01] of the testimony that you know

[11:02] I am supporting those, right?

[11:03] If they make sense.

[11:05] Um, so I'm happy to be here

[11:07] today to learn because making

[11:09] sure that those who will have

[11:11] to comply do they have the

[11:12] tools necessary right.

[11:14] And will this in any way

[11:15] negatively impact someone that

[11:17] we MAY inadvertently be not

[11:18] thinking about?

[11:20] I'm looking forward to the

[11:20] advocates.

[11:23] I do just want to ask um, the

[11:25] makers of this and the chair

[11:27] of the committee I see that all

[11:29] of the advocates who were

[11:30] speaking are from 32 bj so

[11:31] thank you for being here.

[11:33] I know many of you guard

[11:34] yourselves so you'll bring a

[11:37] very personal opinion to this

[11:38] important conversation.

[11:41] But is there anyone maybe small

[11:42] business security owners who

[11:44] were also invited to speak?

[11:46] If not hope some of them are

[11:48] here and have signed up to at

[11:49] least give two minute public

[11:51] testimony but if necessary I

[11:53] know that this MAY need another

[11:54] hearing if we can get the other

[11:56] side because I think it's

[11:57] always important that when

[11:59] we're passing these important

[12:01] ordinances that we make sure we

[12:02] know exactly the impacts

[12:03] they're going to have.

[12:05] So looking forward to hearing

[12:06] more about how we can support

[12:07] our workers.

[12:07] Thank you.

[12:08] Thank you.

[12:09] >> the chair recognizes

[12:09] councilor flynn.

[12:10] Councilor flynn, you have the

[12:11] floor.

[12:12] Thank you.

[12:17] This is an important discussion

[12:20] and an opportunity for us to

[12:24] provide some critical training

[12:26] that unarmed security guards

[12:27] desperately need.

[12:29] When I was a probation officer

[12:30] at suffolk superior court, I

[12:32] worked part time at the carney

[12:34] hospital in their security

[12:35] division.

[12:37] I understand how important

[12:38] unarmed security guards are.

[12:43] For the safety of many

[12:44] employees and safety of the

[12:45] public as well.

[12:49] Um, I do support this proposal.

[12:50] I read it.

[12:52] I have respect for 32 objects

[12:54] probably now no city

[12:56] council that is has a better

[12:58] record on labor issues than

[12:58] myself.

[13:01] Uh, calling on hotel and

[13:02] restaurant workers.

[13:04] Um, so I'm here to support this

[13:06] proposal because I could

[13:07] because I know about this

[13:07] firsthand.

[13:09] Although I'm not a an original

[13:10] sponsor.

[13:13] I do know every detail about

[13:14] this proposal.

[13:15] Um, I would have I would have

[13:17] been a sponsor if I was asked.

[13:21] Um, but I do know that it is

[13:22] important for us to provide

[13:26] critical training support to

[13:29] unarmed security guards and

[13:30] ensuring that they're also

[13:32] treated with respect and

[13:32] dignity.

[13:35] And that's what this city is

[13:37] all about providing not just a

[13:39] job for people but providing

[13:40] them a career.

[13:42] And you all can have a career

[13:43] when you have the necessary

[13:46] training and resources and you

[13:47] get a good salary and good

[13:48] working conditions.

[13:50] But I do know the importance

[13:52] of the unarmed security guards

[13:54] in boston and they make a

[13:55] difference whether they're at

[13:58] schools, colleges, universities

[14:00] but especially from hospitals.

[14:01] That's where I can speak from

[14:02] experience.

[14:03] I know the critical role

[14:05] unarmed security guards play at

[14:08] many hospitals in boston and

[14:10] um, I want to be there for our

[14:13] security guards because they've

[14:14] always been there for the

[14:14] residents of boston.

[14:15] Thank you.

[14:17] Thank you.

[14:20] The chair recognizes

[14:21] council PRESIDENT Liz breeden.

[14:23] You have the floor and two

[14:23] minutes.

[14:23] Thank you.

[14:24] MADAM Chair and good.

[14:26] Morning everyone.

[14:28] >> good to see our friends from

[14:31] 32 pj and jody and uh, lou,

[14:32] thank you for being here.

[14:34] Um, I am in total support

[14:36] of this ordinance.

[14:37] Uh, it's very exciting to think

[14:39] that we're bringing this

[14:39] forward at this time.

[14:43] Um, it's the training minimum

[14:44] training is critically

[14:45] important for our unarmed

[14:48] security, uh, guards to elevate

[14:51] the skills and preparedness to

[14:53] equip our workers to deal with

[14:55] an array of different scenarios

[14:57] that can arise on any given day

[14:57] in their workplace.

[14:59] Uh, it enhances their safety

[15:01] and the safety of the public.

[15:03] And I really look forward to

[15:05] the conversation and, uh, hope

[15:06] that we can move this forward

[15:07] in a timely way.

[15:08] Thank you, MADAM Chair.

[15:09] Thank you.

[15:12] >> the chair recognizes

[15:12] councilor sharon durkan.

[15:14] Thank you so much.

[15:16] Um, I might have been the only

[15:18] one I represent the last one

[15:20] being held back by fenway and

[15:20] mission hall.

[15:20] I might.

[15:22] >> be the only one who heard a

[15:23] lot of concerns about this

[15:24] ordinance.

[15:26] Um, so I do have a lot

[15:26] of questions.

[15:30] Um, and I look forward to, um,

[15:32] chatting um, and having

[15:33] potentially another hearing to

[15:34] go through, uh.

[15:34] >> the.

[15:36] Director's language because um

[15:38] ,knowing that uh, hospitals

[15:41] and academia music venues I

[15:42] also have concerns about sort

[15:44] of the broadness of how this is

[15:46] written, what it applied to

[15:48] doormen outside of a bar or a

[15:49] restaurant.

[15:52] Um, so I do want to make sure I

[15:54] get my questions answered and

[15:56] I'm not sure this is the

[15:57] appropriate format for that.

[16:00] So um so I look forward to more

[16:01] process and more hearings

[16:02] regarding this because I do

[16:04] think there are definitely

[16:06] small business impacts that I

[16:07] would like to consider as well.

[16:08] Thank you.

[16:14] Thank you.

[16:16] >> the chair recognizes

[16:16] councilor fitzgerald.

[16:17] You have the floor.

[16:18] Thank you, MADAM Chair and

[16:19] thank you to the administration

[16:21] in 32 bj for being here.

[16:22] Uh, I look forward to learning

[16:24] more in this hearing and asking

[16:25] questions and figuring out.

[16:26] So let's get started.

[16:26] Thank you very much.

[16:29] Thank you.

[16:31] Um and then I'd just like to

[16:32] say thank you to

[16:33] councilor santana for adding

[16:34] me as an original co-sponsor on

[16:35] this.

[16:38] Um, on this ordinance I grew up

[16:40] with a lot of people neighbors,

[16:42] residents, uh, who are security

[16:43] guards, unarmed security

[16:43] guards.

[16:47] It's often um, uh an entry

[16:49] level uh or beginning job for a

[16:50] lot of people in our

[16:51] communities, especially in our

[16:52] black and brown communities.

[16:54] so I uh this is really

[16:55] important and I want to thank

[16:56] all of our unarmed security

[16:57] workers every day for all

[16:58] of the incredible work that you

[16:59] do.

[17:00] Protecting our buildings often

[17:02] at, um, uh, standing in harm's

[17:02] way.

[17:04] We've seen it here.

[17:06] We've seen it in new york

[17:07] unfortunately where uh and uh,

[17:09] security guard passed away, um

[17:11] ,in the line of duty.

[17:12] So this is really important

[17:12] work.

[17:14] Um, at its core this is about

[17:15] recognizing that unarmed

[17:17] security work has become a real

[17:19] part of the public safety

[17:19] landscape in our city.

[17:21] Uh, they're working in

[17:22] hospitals, universities, uh,

[17:23] housing developments, office

[17:24] buildings and many of the

[17:26] places where they are asked to

[17:27] regularly deal with emergencies

[17:28] and people in crisis.

[17:29] This is about making sure that

[17:31] when workers are already being

[17:32] placed in these situations they

[17:33] have the training, preparation

[17:34] and support to respond safely

[17:35] and appropriately.

[17:37] If we're going to rely on these

[17:38] professions as heavily as we

[17:38] do.

[17:39] We need to make sure that

[17:40] there's some consistency.

[17:42] I also have heard feedback from

[17:42] industry.

[17:44] I've heard feedback uh from uh

[17:45] small business owners from

[17:48] large companies uh from india,

[17:50] from hospitals from uh a number

[17:50] of different entities.

[17:52] And I know that there are some

[17:52] training that already happened,

[17:53] but we're one of the only

[17:54] places that don't that doesn't

[17:56] have standardized training

[17:57] across the board.

[17:59] And so I'm looking forward to

[18:00] hearing testimony.

[18:01] Uh, in terms of uh, this

[18:03] ordinance how we make it better

[18:04] ,how we work in partnership,

[18:06] uh, to make sure that we are

[18:07] doing the best for our city,

[18:08] that best for all of our

[18:09] industry and the best for our

[18:10] workers.

[18:11] So thank you for everyone for

[18:11] being here.

[18:13] I am now going to turn it over

[18:13] to the administration.

[18:17] We are joined today uh by the

[18:17] administration.

[18:19] We are joined by lumen dorine,

[18:20] senior advisor for labor policy

[18:23] and uh jody sugarman bra bra

[18:24] and deputy chief of work

[18:25] empowerment.

[18:27] I will turn it over to you for

[18:29] any introductory remarks or any

[18:30] comments or I'm not sure if you

[18:32] have a presentation but you now

[18:34] have the floor and I will not

[18:35] the timer is off.

[18:35] Okay.

[18:37] Uh, louie the floor.

[18:37] Uh good.

[18:38] Morning chairs.

[18:39] Councilors.

[18:40] Thank you for the opportunity

[18:41] to testify today.

[18:43] Um, as is my practice.

[18:44] I'll keep the opening quick and

[18:45] save time for the conversation

[18:48] and the questions, but, uh, I

[18:50] think from the, uh,

[18:51] administration standpoint, uh,

[18:53] there's a lot to like in, uh,

[18:54] this ordinance at least in

[18:55] concept.

[18:57] Uh, we also, uh, sort of only

[19:00] got it recently and have been

[19:01] preparing and you know, much

[19:03] of the work uh, is obviously

[19:05] going to be done when uh, it's

[19:07] passed and the agency has to

[19:09] set it up and implement it so,

[19:10] you know, that's one uh, flag

[19:12] we know but uh, you know, there

[19:14] are obviously things in here I

[19:17] think that, um, have a lot

[19:17] of merit.

[19:20] So you know, the training in

[19:22] narcan administration or

[19:23] de-escalation, uh, dealing with

[19:25] folks, uh, struggling with

[19:26] addiction issues.

[19:28] I don't think anybody could be

[19:31] opposed to having, uh, you

[19:33] know, ensuring that we have a

[19:34] baseline uniform standard

[19:35] across the city to protect our

[19:36] hospitals, protect our

[19:37] universities, protect our banks

[19:40] ,uh, protect our concert

[19:40] venues.

[19:43] Um, in those circumstances and

[19:44] also most importantly, I think

[19:45] protect the workers themselves

[19:46] and make sure that they have

[19:47] the skills and the training to

[19:48] deal with whatever they face.

[19:49] And then I think the other

[19:52] piece of it uh, that um, you

[19:54] know, jumps up to us is the

[19:55] economic mobility.

[19:57] So uh, you know, the

[19:59] commonwealth in its in in in

[20:02] its decision making in 1972 uh

[20:04] embraced the principle that

[20:05] police officers should formally

[20:07] be uh formally get education

[20:09] and be compensated for it.

[20:10] And I think the same principle

[20:12] obtains for our private unarmed

[20:14] security guards education and

[20:15] training makes them better able

[20:16] to do their jobs.

[20:18] A uniform standard protects the

[20:19] city and protects the

[20:21] stakeholders and protects the

[20:22] institutions that we care

[20:22] about.

[20:25] So uh that is essentially what

[20:27] you'll hear from us today and

[20:28] we look forward to answering

[20:29] your questions and having a

[20:30] conversation.

[20:30] Thanks so much.

[20:32] Thank you.

[20:33] Advisor amanda rini.

[20:34] Uh, deputy chief sugarman

[20:37] bronson rosen.

[20:38] Sorry if I'm frozen.

[20:40] A second.

[20:41] Okay.

[20:42] That's all good.

[20:42] Um.

[20:44] Thank you so much for the

[20:45] opportunity to be here today.

[20:47] Um, as you know, the office

[20:48] of labor compliance and worker

[20:50] protections is always looking

[20:51] for opportunities to ensure

[20:53] that the workers in the city

[20:55] of boston not only have the

[20:56] protections that they need but

[20:58] pathways to good living wage

[20:58] jobs.

[21:00] I don't have much to add, um,

[21:03] from what lou said except that

[21:04] um we also are always very

[21:05] supportive of earn and learn

[21:06] models.

[21:08] They're really a critical way

[21:10] to allow people to enter into

[21:12] an occupation, uh, without any

[21:14] of the barriers and to be paid

[21:17] from day one and have portable

[21:18] credentials that they can take

[21:20] in order to have a good start

[21:21] in a living wage career.

[21:23] So we look forward to answering

[21:24] questions here today.

[21:26] Um, we are you know, we've had

[21:27] a short amount of time to

[21:29] review so we have a lot of work

[21:31] that MAY have to happen um

[21:32] afterwards but we are looking

[21:34] forward to answer questions and

[21:35] engaging with the

[21:35] council today.

[21:37] Thank you.

[21:40] Thank you very much to um the

[21:41] advisor and to the deputy

[21:42] director for being here at the

[21:43] beginning of this conversation

[21:44] as we introduce this ordinance

[21:46] and uh, begin the conversation.

[21:48] We appreciate your perspective.

[21:49] I am now going to turn it over

[21:50] to my colleagues.

[21:52] If they have any questions for

[21:53] this panel, I will give my

[21:53] colleague.

[21:55] Seven minutes inclusive of any

[21:55] questions and answers.

[21:58] Uh, councilor santana as the

[21:59] lead sponsor you begin and you

[22:00] have seven minutes.

[22:01] Thank you.

[22:03] Um thank you, MADAM Chair.

[22:06] Um, and thank you, um, both for

[22:07] being here and for answering

[22:07] our questions.

[22:09] Um, you know, I failed to

[22:11] mention in my opening statement

[22:13] um, you know, I actually was um

[22:15] ,my first campaign, um, for

[22:15] this job.

[22:17] Um, I was actually working

[22:19] overnights doing security, um,

[22:21] and um, you know, it was it was

[22:23] a great job and I was very

[22:23] tiring job.

[22:25] Um, but I also um it goes in

[22:26] hand with what's being proposed

[22:27] today.

[22:29] I did not have the proper

[22:31] training to be able to deal

[22:32] with all the situations that

[22:33] MAY dad, I MAY have encountered

[22:34] .

[22:36] Um, and I learned that

[22:37] firsthand while doing the job.

[22:39] Um, you know, I was supervising

[22:42] or securing a, um, an elderly

[22:43] facility.

[22:45] Um, you know, many of them were

[22:47] um and that by, you know, 8:09

[22:48] P.M. Um, and I was working

[22:50] overnight and um, all sorts

[22:53] of things will happen um,

[22:54] between 11 P.M. And 7 A.M. When

[22:55] I was um when I was there.

[22:58] um um so I got to do want to

[23:01] thank the um, um, the union 32

[23:02] bj um for having conversations

[23:04] with my office um, and being

[23:05] able to bring this, um, up to

[23:06] the attention.

[23:09] So, um, I know you've had, um,

[23:10] short on time to be able to

[23:12] review this, but, um, you know,

[23:13] I want to make sure that we are

[23:15] not just passing good policy on

[23:15] paper.

[23:17] Um, from the administration

[23:18] perspective, um, what are

[23:21] specific resources staffing, um

[23:23] systems and processes that need

[23:25] to be in place for an ordinance

[23:26] like this one to work in

[23:26] practice?

[23:29] That's a great question that

[23:30] we're we're still trying to

[23:31] figure that out.

[23:32] Um, we've been in contact with

[23:33] some of our colleagues

[23:34] counterparts in philadelphia.

[23:37] Um, but it's clear that we need

[23:39] the capacity to be able to

[23:41] review um, proposed

[23:42] applications permits.

[23:45] Uh, but I think we want to make

[23:48] sure that we do that work and

[23:49] do the due diligence

[23:50] of understanding that in

[23:52] partnership with the workers on

[23:54] the front lines with industry

[23:55] including understanding what

[23:57] should be part of the training

[23:58] program?

[24:02] Um, so we we know that there is

[24:03] capacity needed and we're still

[24:05] trying to figure that out.

[24:06] Yeah.

[24:07] >> and then as we still figure

[24:09] that out I'm wondering if there

[24:10] are any um.

[24:14] Uh like in terms

[24:15] of implementation, are there

[24:16] any barriers that you're able

[24:17] to see right now that um, that

[24:19] we MAY be able to identify um

[24:20] in terms of implementation?

[24:24] I don't know that I would say

[24:29] barriers as much as um ups or

[24:30] not even obstacles.

[24:32] We need to figure out what's

[24:33] needed and set up systems in

[24:35] place to make that happen.

[24:37] So the first step is what is

[24:39] involved what would be required

[24:40] of our office, what kind

[24:41] of capacity would be needed and

[24:43] then moving forward to ensure

[24:44] that we could meet that

[24:45] capacity.

[24:46] We're very lucky.

[24:47] The office of labor compliance

[24:50] and worker protections is new.

[24:51] It is part of the new worker

[24:52] empowerment cabinet, but it

[24:54] also is part of a cabinet that

[24:54] includes the office

[24:56] of workforce development, which

[24:57] has extensive experience in.

[24:58] Supporting training programs

[24:59] like this.

[25:02] So I feel like we have a lot

[25:04] of um, expertise and we've got

[25:06] a couple of other cities that

[25:07] we can learn from.

[25:10] Uh, so I think really it's a

[25:12] timeline and understanding that

[25:14] we we would need some lead time

[25:15] to go through that process and

[25:18] not be able to jump into this

[25:20] um, in 30 days even if it's

[25:21] effective in 30 days we'd need

[25:23] more time to ensure that we're

[25:25] setting up the systems in place

[25:26] to take in the permit

[25:28] applications and ensure all the

[25:28] systems are there.

[25:30] Absolutely, absolutely.

[25:30] >> I really appreciate that.

[25:33] Um, lou, I know you're in um I

[25:33] appreciate you being here.

[25:35] I know you're in constant

[25:36] communications with a lot

[25:37] of our unions, a lot of our

[25:38] worker, uh, workers throughout

[25:41] the city wondering um, you

[25:42] know, what are you hearing?

[25:44] Um, maybe prior to even this

[25:45] introduction from our workers,

[25:47] um, and maybe specifically our

[25:48] unarmed security guards.

[25:51] Um, and then, you know, have

[25:52] you heard anything since maybe

[25:53] this introduction?

[25:56] Well, I mean, I think, um, this

[25:57] is probably a point to talk a

[25:58] little bit more about the

[26:00] economic mobility, uh, piece

[26:01] of this which is very

[26:01] attractive.

[26:04] So I think having a uniform

[26:06] standard um, that enables our

[26:09] workers uh, to get a credential

[26:10] enhances their economic

[26:12] mobility and that could be as

[26:13] simple as sort of moving to

[26:15] another security provider or it

[26:18] could be potentially getting

[26:19] exposed to, you know, something

[26:20] that takes them on a different

[26:22] but related career trajectory.

[26:24] This is an incredibly expensive

[26:26] city to live in and I think

[26:26] giving.

[26:28] Opportunities to people

[26:28] particularly at the bottom

[26:30] of the economic scale so that

[26:31] they can move around a little

[26:33] bit more easily, they can have

[26:34] good, you know, middle class

[26:36] wages and economic protection

[26:37] that comes.

[26:38] This is a step in that

[26:38] direction.

[26:40] So you know that's why it's

[26:41] attractive to us and I think it

[26:43] gives a lot of opportunity to a

[26:44] lot of people that are working

[26:46] very hard and they could uh

[26:47] they could have something that

[26:48] makes it a little bit easier

[26:49] for them.

[26:50] So that's a I think what we

[26:51] stand.

[26:51] All right.

[26:52] No I really appreciate that

[26:53] perspective.

[26:54] It it's something that we

[26:55] definitely took under

[26:57] consideration when um um when

[26:59] creating this ordinance um I, I

[27:00] don't I don't want to have

[27:02] questions um for for this panel

[27:04] um I have a few for the the

[27:05] next panel but I do want to um

[27:06] thank the administration for

[27:08] being here being present um, on

[27:10] a short timeline and then I

[27:12] also um you know, I think

[27:13] there's, uh we want to be able

[27:15] to work with you all, um, work

[27:16] with everyone.

[27:17] Um, and you know, I know we're

[27:18] going to have public testimony

[27:18] later too.

[27:20] Um, looking forward to that.

[27:22] Um, to make sure that, um, as

[27:23] we're creating this that we're

[27:24] not speeding through this um,

[27:25] but that we're being

[27:27] thoughtful, um, and thinking

[27:28] about everyone and how this

[27:29] affects everyone.

[27:31] So um and again, thank you both

[27:31] for being here.

[27:33] Um, and I'll hand back my time.

[27:34] Thank you, MADAM Chair.

[27:35] Thank you.

[27:35] Uh, the.

[27:36] Chair recognizes

[27:37] councilor murphy.

[27:38] You have the floor in seven

[27:39] minutes.

[27:39] Thank you.

[27:40] >> um.

[27:41] Thank you.

[27:42] Um, has.

[27:45] Any of this work already been

[27:46] going on?

[27:47] Because I know this ordinance

[27:49] and I if I heard you correctly

[27:50] ,you said it a few times that

[27:51] this is kind of coming.

[27:51] >> on quick.

[27:52] And you.

[27:52] >> don't.

[27:54] really have you know, the all

[27:55] the answers or thought through

[27:56] this yet.

[27:57] So if.

[27:59] We have as an administration

[28:01] already kind of thinking

[28:04] of this work have any small

[28:06] security companies nonunion

[28:07] security guards or property

[28:09] owners, hospitals, schools, you

[28:11] know, all of the organizations

[28:12] that MAY be impacted

[28:14] neighborhood businesses have we

[28:16] as an administration consulted

[28:16] any of.

[28:18] Them on this issue?

[28:22] So we are uh we have had

[28:23] exchanges and in preparation

[28:25] for this we have had uh some

[28:27] conversations with industry and

[28:29] uh are looking forward to

[28:30] continuing those conversations

[28:30] .

[28:31] We haven't touched the whole

[28:33] ecosystem yet as we said

[28:34] because this moved on fast.

[28:36] But councilor, I think you're

[28:37] highlighting a point that's

[28:38] important, which is that we

[28:39] need to have those cameras so

[28:40] you can't do something like

[28:42] this over the objections of the

[28:43] entire industry.

[28:44] You have to do it with them and

[28:45] working in partnership with

[28:45] them.

[28:46] And I think that could.

[28:48] >> you explain um, maybe for

[28:50] the public watching to who do

[28:51] you consider the industry?

[28:55] Well uh, certainly folks that

[28:56] are on the other side of the

[28:57] collective bargaining

[28:58] relationship with some of the

[28:59] unions but I think it's anybody

[29:00] that provides this private

[29:00] security.

[29:02] I mean, I think the more people

[29:04] you talk to and at least get

[29:05] their input it doesn't, you

[29:07] know, mean that all points are

[29:09] equal and all things have to be

[29:09] done.

[29:11] But I think those conversations

[29:12] are important so we're in the

[29:12] process of having them.

[29:15] Okay a question um.

[29:18] The ordinance says training.

[29:18] MAY be.

[29:20] >> provided only by a federally

[29:21] tax exempt organization, MAY.

[29:23] >> not be controlled.

[29:23] By a.

[29:24] >> security employer.

[29:26] And must be conducted

[29:28] exclusively through in-person

[29:28] classroom instruction.

[29:32] Um why are qualified security

[29:33] companies and legitimate online

[29:34] or hybrid.

[29:36] Training providers

[29:37] categorically excluded?

[29:38] Like have we thought that

[29:40] through or do you have an

[29:41] understanding of.

[29:42] Why it MAY have.

[29:44] >> had such strong wording

[29:46] of just in person tax exempt?

[29:50] I think that first we know that

[29:53] there are risks in for profit

[29:55] training programs and I think

[29:57] that the ensuring that the

[30:00] training programs are there to

[30:02] benefit workers and employers

[30:03] and ensuring that they're

[30:05] meeting the needs of the

[30:06] workers and the employers who

[30:07] hire them.

[30:11] Um, I know that um, in-person

[30:14] training for things like

[30:15] de-escalation.

[30:20] And um overdose training and um

[30:22] other important trainings that

[30:23] are critical to ensuring that

[30:25] the public and workers are safe

[30:26] are best done in person.

[30:29] Um, so I think that is the

[30:31] reasoning and thinking behind

[30:31] that.

[30:32] Um.

[30:34] >> I think as we go through the

[30:35] process of developing the

[30:37] training program, we as we said

[30:38] we will engage with the

[30:39] industry.

[30:41] We will engage with workers on

[30:42] the front lines to ensure that

[30:44] what we are creating and

[30:46] certifying meets the needs

[30:47] of those workers on the front

[30:49] lines and of course the

[30:50] employers that are going to be

[30:50] hiring them.

[30:51] Thank you.

[30:53] The ordinance would take effect

[30:55] 30 days after passage, but it

[30:57] requires the city to create a

[30:59] permit system, certify.

[31:00] Training providers.

[31:02] Establish qualifications,

[31:05] determine fees, issue notices,

[31:05] develop complaint.

[31:08] Procedures and promulgate

[31:08] regulations.

[31:09] How can businesses legally.

[31:12] Comply when none of those

[31:14] systems are already in place?

[31:15] If you could kind of talk

[31:16] through what that would look

[31:16] like.

[31:19] ,uh, I my understanding is

[31:21] that those systems must be in

[31:22] place for the first

[31:24] certification by JULY of the

[31:26] following year, JULY 2027.

[31:28] So I have not yet had an

[31:29] opportunity to really dig in to

[31:30] understand what must be in

[31:33] place prior versus when people

[31:35] would be permitted and by that

[31:36] JULY 1st.

[31:37] 2027 would.

[31:38] Be the.

[31:41] >> first set of permitted and

[31:43] um new training programs.

[31:46] So I can't really answer that

[31:47] question because I'm not quite

[31:49] sure yet what the differences.

[31:50] Okay.

[31:51] >> thank you.

[31:52] that's all I have for.

[31:52] Thank you.

[31:54] >> the chair recognizes

[31:54] councilor flynn.

[31:56] You have the floor and seven

[31:56] minutes.

[31:58] Thank you, MADAM Chair.

[31:59] Thank you, jody for your

[31:59] important work.

[32:00] That you're doing.

[32:02] Um, jody, just wanted to follow

[32:04] up on a comment

[32:05] councilor murphy.

[32:06] Made or a.

[32:07] Question rather.

[32:08] The people.

[32:08] That would.

[32:11] >> be providing the training or

[32:12] the groups that would be.

[32:14] Providing the training.

[32:14] Could you just.

[32:16] Restate that who.

[32:18] Would be qualified under under

[32:19] what conditions.

[32:22] The the the as it stands right

[32:24] now it must be a nonprofit.

[32:27] Entity that provides the

[32:28] training that would be

[32:29] permitted in order to receive a

[32:30] permit.

[32:31] To give the training.

[32:32] That's what must.

[32:33] It must.

[32:34] >> be the case a nonprofit

[32:35] organization.

[32:37] Is there any.

[32:38] >> type of nonprofit

[32:40] organizations currently that do

[32:41] provide that training?

[32:44] I don't know I'm not sure I.

[32:45] Lo do you know the answer?

[32:49] Uh I don't as I sit here and

[32:50] talk I don't.

[32:55] Okay MADAM Chair, MAY I get

[32:56] that information?

[32:58] Um please.

[32:59] Yet the question is if there

[33:00] are nonprofit organizations

[33:01] that already provide the

[33:02] training that's being required

[33:03] under this ordinance.

[33:03] It's the.

[33:06] Question I guess, um.

[33:08] If there are no.

[33:10] Nonprofits that do provide.

[33:13] This training, is there any.

[33:17] For profit organization

[33:18] organizations that do provide

[33:18] this training?

[33:21] I think the structure at the

[33:24] moment is that the companies

[33:26] that hire security guards and.

[33:27] Contract them out.

[33:29] Provide the training, but it is

[33:32] as minimal as eight hours and

[33:36] then the training is also then

[33:38] additionally provided by the

[33:39] site that they are.

[33:40] Assigned to.

[33:44] That structure is varies from

[33:45] worker to worker from site.

[33:46] To site.

[33:48] And what this seeks to do is

[33:50] create a minimum standard

[33:52] across the board which is

[33:53] of significant value that

[33:56] ensures that all folks who are

[33:58] put on this on the front lines

[33:59] who are dealing with medical

[34:02] emergencies and other kinds

[34:03] of um public safety situations

[34:06] have the training they need to

[34:06] engage.

[34:07] >> with those.

[34:09] Would would form of police

[34:10] officers.

[34:11] That are engaged.

[34:12] >> in public.

[34:14] Safety in a for.

[34:16] Profit space.

[34:19] Would they be able to provide.

[34:23] Formal training to unarmed

[34:23] security officers as part

[34:24] of this uh, plan?

[34:30] The ordinance allows a process

[34:30] through.

[34:32] Which the trainers can then

[34:34] define their instructors so

[34:38] that is yet to be determined on

[34:41] how and where instructors are

[34:42] certified, if at all.

[34:44] But in order to receive a

[34:45] permit to provide the training

[34:47] that's required, the

[34:48] application process as it

[34:49] stands in the ordinance

[34:51] requires that they name their

[34:54] um their training trainers and

[34:56] one would assume that former

[34:59] police officers who have had

[35:00] significant training.

[35:00] >> could.

[35:01] Be part of that process.

[35:01] Yeah okay.

[35:02] >> that's what I was.

[35:03] Thinking that this.

[35:04] Potentially could go to a.

[35:07] Company where a former police

[35:07] chief.

[35:07] Of a.

[35:10] >> city could potentially get

[35:12] the contract to provide this

[35:12] training.

[35:13] Is that is that accurate?

[35:13] You're saying.

[35:15] >> it the way this is written

[35:17] it must be a nonprofit entity.

[35:19] Unless it's changed.

[35:20] Yeah, after the fact.

[35:22] When we write it.

[35:23] >> up basically.

[35:24] >> is that accurate?

[35:25] That is true.

[35:25] Okay.

[35:27] I think the important piece for

[35:29] us, um, is that the training.

[35:31] Is no cost to the workers and

[35:34] that they are paid to be part

[35:34] of the training.

[35:36] Those things are really

[35:36] critical pieces.

[35:37] >> of the ordinance.

[35:38] >> no thank you jody.

[35:40] Um lou has been.

[35:42] Um, invited.

[35:43] Into the conversation.

[35:45] Uh, but we're certainly on the

[35:46] list of people that we will

[35:48] talk to but we have not uh, as

[35:49] as we say this is moving fast

[35:50] and we've had the opportunity

[35:52] to talk to some folks and, uh,

[35:54] we will talk to others, but

[35:55] that was certainly on the list

[35:56] of people we need to consult.

[36:01] I do hear from a lot of people

[36:02] that this is moving fast.

[36:03] Is there a reason why.

[36:05] It is moving fast?

[36:06] I'm not saying.

[36:07] >> I disagree with that or

[36:08] agree with that but what.

[36:11] Why is there a sense of urgency

[36:11] on this?

[36:14] Um.

[36:18] >> we're responding to well,

[36:20] we're responding to a filing I

[36:20] think I would leave it at that.

[36:22] I don't know more than that.

[36:24] Uh, and we're sort of doing our

[36:25] best to get ahead of it and

[36:27] testify to the to the extent

[36:29] that we can but I I don't know

[36:29] the answer to your question,

[36:30] COUNCILMAN.

[36:30] Well.

[36:32] >> it was filed the reason.

[36:33] >> I'm.

[36:33] Asking was.

[36:34] >> filed in the.

[36:35] City council recently a couple

[36:35] of weeks ago.

[36:37] And we're here having a.

[36:40] Last week and we're having a

[36:42] hearing on it and and and.

[36:45] There's still a lot of.

[36:45] Unanswered questions I'm just

[36:46] trying to get to.

[36:48] I there's something I'm missing

[36:48] .

[36:49] There's something I'm missing

[36:51] here about the timing.

[36:53] Who has information about the

[36:54] timing.

[36:54] I want to.

[36:57] >> know why.

[36:58] I want to make sure if we pass

[37:00] something it has to be the

[37:01] right language.

[37:02] I don't want to.

[37:03] rush something just to get

[37:05] something done within two.

[37:07] Weeks and then find out we made

[37:07] mistakes.

[37:08] Why are we rushing this.

[37:10] To get it done tomorrow?

[37:16] No, I.

[37:18] >> guess the lead sponsor would

[37:21] like to speak on this through

[37:21] the chair.

[37:22] You MAY through the chair.

[37:24] Thank you, MADAM Chair.

[37:25] I just want to bring some

[37:25] clarification.

[37:27] I don't want to I definitely do

[37:28] I don't think they know the

[37:29] answer to that as well as the

[37:30] lead filer.

[37:32] Um uh, as you know,

[37:34] councilor uh, I as a public

[37:37] knows I was away um, for a few

[37:37] weeks.

[37:39] Um, and this was supposed to be

[37:42] filed um prior um and we were

[37:43] working with um, the committee

[37:44] to try to get things scheduled.

[37:47] So, um, it was just that I, uh

[37:48] my last week was my first

[37:49] meeting back.

[37:50] Um, so I've made all my filings

[37:52] that I had missed, um, prior to

[37:52] this.

[37:54] So this is why I think some

[37:55] of the timing, um, questions

[37:58] but I think, um, I do want to

[38:00] make clear that, um, I don't

[38:02] think anyone here wants to rush

[38:03] through this process.

[38:04] I think we want to make sure

[38:05] that we're getting it right.

[38:07] Um, I think, um I already heard

[38:08] from multiple councilors as

[38:10] well, of of having another

[38:11] hearing usually an ordinance as

[38:12] we have working sessions to

[38:14] work on um, the language um and

[38:16] that that is all something that

[38:17] you know, I definitely want to

[38:18] do as the lead sponsor.

[38:19] Yeah.

[38:20] >> thank you.

[38:21] Thank you, councilor santana.

[38:22] I agree.

[38:22] With you.

[38:23] >> I want to make sure I get

[38:23] this.

[38:24] We get this right.

[38:26] I was a security guard.

[38:27] I know this.

[38:28] Issue as well as anyone here.

[38:30] I have the strongest record on

[38:32] the city council in support

[38:33] of organized labor.

[38:35] Then there's no one that has a

[38:37] better record on the city

[38:37] council than I do.

[38:39] I want to get this done.

[38:41] Uh, but I want to get it done

[38:41] the right way.

[38:43] And the right way is making

[38:44] sure we.

[38:46] Uh, do our due diligence.

[38:48] In ensuring all voices are.

[38:49] Heard included.

[38:50] >> and respected.

[38:51] Um.

[38:51] >> thank you.

[38:53] Thank you.

[38:56] >> the chair recognizes, uh,

[38:56] council PRESIDENT.

[38:57] Liz breadon.

[39:00] You have the floor and seven

[39:00] minutes.

[39:01] Thank you.

[39:03] >> um, MADAM Chair, um, I'm

[39:06] just, uh, again, I think I'm

[39:08] familiarizing myself with this

[39:10] this, uh this ordinance and

[39:13] also looking at what other

[39:15] standards other states have and

[39:17] other other municipalities.

[39:20] Uh, it says that, you know,

[39:21] massachusetts does not enforce

[39:24] a statewide minimum or mandate

[39:26] for an armed guard leaving

[39:27] specific training standards up

[39:29] to individual licensed uh

[39:31] employers and municipalities.

[39:33] Um, I think that leaves a lot

[39:35] of wiggle room and doesn't

[39:37] really establish a clear

[39:37] standard.

[39:40] Uh, by comparison I think uh,

[39:43] carol, uh, california requires

[39:44] 40 hours of total training,

[39:46] eight hours pre assignment to

[39:47] on partial arrest plus eight 30

[39:49] hours of general and elective

[39:50] subjects.

[39:51] New york mandated mandates

[39:53] eight hours pre assignment

[39:54] training followed by 16 hours

[39:57] of on the job training uh

[39:59] of course within the first 90

[40:01] days north carolina requires a

[40:02] minimum of 16 hours basic

[40:04] classroom covering legal

[40:05] issues, communications and

[40:06] emergency response.

[40:10] It seems like this uh ordinance

[40:12] is is filling a gap and meets

[40:14] the need for some standardized

[40:14] training.

[40:17] Uh, I also think that the issue

[40:19] about economic mobility if you

[40:21] have a uh a portable credential

[40:23] that allows you to seek

[40:25] employment elsewhere um, and

[40:27] that's that is good a

[40:28] credential that's well

[40:29] respected and has good

[40:29] standing.

[40:32] I think that's um that's really

[40:35] critically important in terms

[40:37] of um in terms of the terrain.

[40:39] Just how do you why do we why

[40:42] do we not have more in 2026?

[40:44] Why do we not have a more

[40:47] standard training for um,

[40:49] unarmed security guards in

[40:49] massachusetts?

[40:51] Is there any sort of history to

[40:53] that or is it what's the

[40:53] background?

[40:56] Uh, MADAM PRESIDENT, I think I

[40:58] mean what I would say is that,

[40:59] uh, those kind of uniform

[41:00] standards come from the state

[41:01] government.

[41:03] Uh, you know that sort of when

[41:05] we want to make a uniform

[41:07] policy across the 351 cities

[41:08] and towns in the commonwealth,

[41:09] it falls to the legislature to

[41:10] do that.

[41:11] You know, that hasn't happened

[41:12] .

[41:14] Um, I don't want to make that

[41:15] sound like I'm blaming anybody,

[41:17] but it hasn't happened.

[41:18] Uh, the simple fact is as we

[41:20] sit here and talk, we don't

[41:22] have a uniform standard for

[41:24] training these critical

[41:25] frontline workers.

[41:27] And so I think from our

[41:28] standpoint that's the

[41:29] circumstance where it falls to

[41:30] local government that's closest

[41:32] to the ground to do this work.

[41:33] It hasn't happened.

[41:35] So it falls to us to do it and

[41:36] that's you and me.

[41:37] Yeah that's us.

[41:38] We're we're it.

[41:40] Um.

[41:42] >> in terms of the menu

[41:44] of training skills I think this

[41:45] might be a question for you.

[41:47] What do you think has been the

[41:49] most important skill set that

[41:51] we want to ensure that there's

[41:52] uniformity for all armed

[41:53] security guards?

[41:57] I think that's a question for

[41:59] the frontline workers and the

[42:01] employers who hire them.

[42:02] But the list and the ordinance

[42:04] has some really critical pieces

[42:07] around de-escalation, um, and

[42:10] uh, cpr and other health and

[42:11] safety training.

[42:13] Um, you know, the office that I

[42:15] lead, I always think it's

[42:16] important that workers know and

[42:17] understand their rights on the

[42:19] job and that is part of the

[42:19] training.

[42:21] Uh, but again, the best

[42:22] training programs are

[42:24] created in consultation with

[42:27] the frontline workers and the

[42:28] people who are going to employ

[42:28] them.

[42:30] So I think that work is to be

[42:31] done.

[42:32] But the list and the ordinance

[42:34] certainly is a very good start

[42:37] with important, important

[42:38] skills and trainings that will

[42:41] ensure that, um, unarmed guards

[42:43] are safe and the people that

[42:44] they protect also.

[42:46] Um I think.

[42:48] You know the whole issue on

[42:49] de-escalation and communication

[42:51] when there's conflict people

[42:53] get very feisty at times um,

[42:55] handling difficult public

[42:55] interactions.

[42:57] That's a particular skill set

[42:59] that not everyone has.

[43:01] So it's not about using brute

[43:03] force to manage a situation.

[43:05] It's about de-escalating and

[43:08] and uh handling situations

[43:09] sensitively so that people feel

[43:11] heard and that the that they

[43:12] don't ramp up their aggression

[43:14] or whatever their displeasure.

[43:19] Um uh under any particular and

[43:20] like obviously I think this

[43:22] will be refined and will be

[43:24] going to I am assuming will be

[43:25] having working sessions on this

[43:27] and and I look forward to the

[43:27] conversation with the next

[43:28] panel.

[43:32] Um, do you foresee any

[43:35] particular challenges with um

[43:39] uh standing up this this this

[43:40] standard going forward like

[43:42] timelines, training

[43:45] requirements, um, um any any

[43:46] other particular challenges?

[43:48] I think that we need a little

[43:50] bit more time to do our due

[43:51] diligence to come up with a

[43:53] solid implementation plan

[43:54] that's realistic based on the

[43:57] capacity and we are already

[43:57] starting to do that.

[43:59] Talk to our counterparts in

[44:00] other cities and towns.

[44:03] Um, but as a new department,

[44:04] the office of labor compliance

[44:06] has been tasked with

[44:06] implementation of new

[44:08] ordinances and um, we've been

[44:11] able to take it from beginning

[44:12] to end, including the heat

[44:12] ordinance.

[44:15] And I feel confident that, um,

[44:16] we would be able.

[44:18] To with enough time to do our

[44:20] due diligence, come up with a

[44:20] plan for.

[44:21] This as well.

[44:21] Yeah.

[44:24] And I think the partnership

[44:25] with our union colleagues are

[44:27] going to be really critical in

[44:29] managing the putting this

[44:31] together and developing a

[44:33] workable plan and also the the

[44:34] actual subject matter that

[44:37] folks are going to need to be

[44:37] skilled.

[44:40] Um and I feel and it's more

[44:41] of a statement rather than a

[44:42] question.

[44:45] Um having well-trained staff

[44:47] who are confident in their

[44:51] skills uh, is safety in itself

[44:53] like I think they they generate

[44:55] are they manifest like

[44:58] confidence and um they're

[44:59] nobody it's it's not about.

[45:00] Brute force.

[45:03] It's about being able to manage

[45:04] situations complex situations

[45:06] that can change very quickly.

[45:10] Um are there any other issues

[45:12] or concerns that you have in

[45:13] relation to how this might.

[45:14] Be viewed.

[45:17] More generally in the broader

[45:18] um environment in terms

[45:20] of other businesses etc.?

[45:24] No, I think I, I really look

[45:27] forward to creating um an

[45:29] opportunity to fill a gap

[45:30] that's really needed and to

[45:34] ensuring that we are providing

[45:35] um, a workforce which is

[45:37] increasingly part of our public

[45:37] safety.

[45:42] Ecosystem the skills they need

[45:43] while at the same time um

[45:46] giving them portable

[45:47] credentials earned and learning

[45:49] opportunities and career

[45:51] advancement opportunities and

[45:51] mobility opportunities.

[45:54] I think this this provides an

[45:55] opportunity to do two of the

[45:56] two things at once with that.

[45:57] But in that.

[45:58] Regard very good.

[45:59] Thank you.

[46:00] Thank you, MADAM Chair.

[46:01] Thank you.

[46:02] Uh, council PRESIDENT Breeden

[46:02] um.

[46:04] And thank you everyone for

[46:05] doing so great on time.

[46:06] Um.

[46:08] We have also been joined by

[46:10] councilors ben weber and

[46:10] councilor and councilor.

[46:12] Reverend maynard culpeper.

[46:13] Uh, next.

[46:15] We have.

[46:16] Councilor sharon durkan.

[46:17] Councilor durkan.

[46:17] >> you have.

[46:18] >> the floor.

[46:18] Thank you.

[46:19] >> and seven minutes.

[46:20] Thank you, councilor louijeune.

[46:25] Um, so, uh, obviously as a city

[46:26] councilor we're often, you

[46:29] know, diving into issues that

[46:31] require a ton of intricacies

[46:33] and you know, but often.

[46:36] We are we are figuring out the

[46:39] intricacies and like the uh,

[46:41] confines of an issue as we're

[46:41] debating it.

[46:45] So, um so I want to just say

[46:46] thanks to the sponsors for

[46:48] their work, uh, on this issue.

[46:50] It's not an issue that I know a

[46:52] ton about other than the calls

[46:52] I've received.

[46:55] Uh, regarding um, you know,

[46:57] just folks and industry in our

[46:59] district just trying to figure

[47:02] out exactly what this would do

[47:03] and exactly who it.

[47:04] Applies to.

[47:06] Um, one issue I see with the

[47:08] way that this is currently

[47:11] drafted is that 1722 is the

[47:13] road safety and accountability

[47:14] for third party delivery

[47:15] drivers ordinance.

[47:16] So I think that we should

[47:17] create a new section in the

[47:18] city code.

[47:19] Uh.

[47:20] >> if this were to go into

[47:26] effect, um I do think that the

[47:28] way that I've heard from some

[47:29] of these security companies is

[47:31] they think that their training

[47:33] is their secret sauce like it's

[47:35] the type of work that they do

[47:36] and there are a lot

[47:38] of different settings that um

[47:40] that the security guards are

[47:42] are in um particularly with

[47:44] hospitals it might require a

[47:45] different training than

[47:46] guarding a door at a concert.

[47:49] Um, so can you speak to that

[47:50] from the city's perspective

[47:52] of the different settings that

[47:53] private security officers might

[47:55] be in and if there were to be a

[47:57] training establish how you

[47:58] would get at those intricacies

[47:59] ?

[48:01] Yeah.

[48:02] >> I think this ordinance sets

[48:04] us sets a baseline so that

[48:07] there are different kinds

[48:07] of settings.

[48:09] Hospitals would be certainly

[48:11] different than um, a setting

[48:13] out a front desk of a major

[48:15] office building or things like

[48:15] that.

[48:17] Um, but what this seeks to do

[48:19] is create a baseline so that

[48:23] all guards have um guards have

[48:25] some basic level of training.

[48:30] It's set out 40 hours um which

[48:32] um on the surface seems

[48:34] reasonable to me but that is um

[48:35] I would want to have additional

[48:37] conversations as we move

[48:37] forward.

[48:39] Um, to understand what is the

[48:41] baseline versus what is that

[48:42] extra on top piece that might

[48:44] be necessary from side to side

[48:44] ?

[48:46] >> and regarding the 40 hours

[48:49] of initial training I, I mean

[48:51] that sounds like on the face

[48:52] like a reasonable amount

[48:55] of hours but um, having talked

[48:56] to some of these security

[48:57] companies there's a lot of part

[48:59] time workers.

[49:00] Um, a lot of people who do

[49:02] private security are our lowest

[49:03] income workers, people who do

[49:04] it part time.

[49:06] They need that revenue in their

[49:08] lives for their families.

[49:11] Um, and so I think it's really

[49:13] important that this ordinance,

[49:18] um, puts the uh cost on the

[49:18] employer.

[49:21] But one concern I have is that,

[49:23] uh, you know, if you if you

[49:24] move like we were talking about

[49:26] from employer to employer, um,

[49:28] there's not something right now

[49:30] having read through um, in this

[49:31] ordinance it says if you have a

[49:33] training and you've been

[49:34] trained, you know, you have

[49:36] this training for a year and

[49:38] then it sounds like you're it

[49:39] sounds like there's a little

[49:40] bit of ambiguity in the current

[49:41] text.

[49:43] uh, that would essentially

[49:44] you'd have to be retrained when

[49:45] you joined a new.

[49:47] Uh.

[49:48] >> security company.

[49:50] Uh, and I think that there's

[49:53] kind of lacks the nuances of,

[49:55] you know, people living their

[49:55] lives.

[49:57] You know, when we get ethics

[50:00] trained, you know, we have that

[50:01] certification for a certain

[50:03] period of time and um, and you

[50:04] know, we do trainings

[50:05] throughout the city for

[50:07] different issues, you know, um,

[50:10] and so I think you should have

[50:12] a certificate and a certificate

[50:14] should, you know, carry you to

[50:15] any employer.

[50:19] Um I also have concerns um, I

[50:21] not necessarily about it being

[50:23] in person but I do think we

[50:26] absolutely need to talk you

[50:29] know, talk to employers and

[50:31] understand the nuances of these

[50:33] people's lives because uh, I

[50:34] mean, in the city of boston a

[50:36] lot of people work from home.

[50:38] Um, you know, and so asking

[50:40] people to go to a specific

[50:42] site, um, you know, where is

[50:43] their transportation covered?

[50:44] Where do they live?

[50:46] There's there's so many

[50:47] questions I have about kind

[50:50] of the burden on low income

[50:52] workers to get to trainings in

[50:54] person and um, depending on

[50:56] where they are located.

[50:58] Um, I understand the point

[51:00] of this ordinance and I

[51:01] understand potentially the

[51:03] issue that it's trying to solve

[51:03] .

[51:07] But um, I do think that the

[51:09] data in effect does not give

[51:10] enough time for these programs

[51:10] to be developed.

[51:15] I'm definitely concerned, um,

[51:17] about how this MAY conflict

[51:18] with state law.

[51:22] Um, and I understand um, the

[51:23] framework that we're working

[51:24] with in because this framework

[51:25] was used for the third party

[51:26] delivery ordinance.

[51:29] Um, so I understand that piece

[51:30] of this I do think it's

[51:32] important that these are

[51:34] different issues and um and I

[51:36] think it requires some nuance.

[51:39] Um, obviously like you, I

[51:40] haven't had a ton of time to

[51:41] digest.

[51:44] Uh, but I know that there are a

[51:47] lot of different types of, uh,

[51:49] security training that people

[51:51] are currently and frameworks

[51:52] that they're operating within

[51:53] within their businesses.

[51:55] And I think that does need to

[51:57] be sort of infused here.

[51:59] Um, because one concern that

[52:01] I've gotten from institutions

[52:03] in my district is that there is

[52:06] this um, idea that based based

[52:08] on their reading and this could

[52:09] be untrue.

[52:11] They want to offer like, uh,

[52:13] special training to their

[52:16] specific site, um, and and the

[52:18] specific confines of like the

[52:21] security of of where people are

[52:23] protecting and they feel like

[52:25] the way that this is written is

[52:28] a little too stringent about

[52:29] but I don't think that's the

[52:31] intent and I do think this

[52:32] could be worked through.

[52:34] Um, I just think it's really

[52:35] important that we talk about

[52:38] those nuances because I

[52:40] wouldn't want to vote for

[52:42] something that I think still

[52:42] needed work.

[52:46] And I do think that as a um,

[52:47] city councilor that represents

[52:49] a lot of places that are

[52:52] targets um having based it

[52:54] sounds great to have like

[52:56] baseline security and to

[52:58] protect against threats.

[53:00] Um but I you know, there's a

[53:01] lot of different stakeholders

[53:02] that I would want to bring into

[53:06] that and I think that uh,

[53:08] security in my district is like

[53:09] of utmost importance to me.

[53:12] Um, and I just want to um first

[53:15] armor who works in mission main

[53:16] right now.

[53:18] Um, they've they've brought up

[53:19] to me we had a security

[53:19] meeting.

[53:21] There was a shooting on JULY

[53:21] 5th.

[53:24] Um, they've brought up to me a

[53:25] lot of disrespect that they've

[53:27] received recently from

[53:28] residents and from folks that

[53:31] work within um, and so I.

[53:32] Don't think we're getting at

[53:33] all the nuances of what private

[53:35] security are dealing with right

[53:36] now within this ordinance.

[53:39] Um, and understanding that like

[53:40] the top issue I'm hearing from

[53:42] private security is the

[53:43] disrespect that they're facing

[53:45] when they are unarmed.

[53:47] And so I don't know that an

[53:48] ordinance can fix that, but

[53:50] that that's the top security

[53:51] issue I'm hearing about

[53:53] regarding private security, um

[53:55] ,in my district.

[53:56] So thank you to the chair.

[53:56] Thank you councilor derek in

[53:57] the chair and this council for

[53:58] cheryl to have the floor and

[53:58] seven minutes.

[53:59] Thank you, MADAM Chair.

[54:02] Um, as always, I support a

[54:03] worker's right to unionize.

[54:04] Uh, and standards are always

[54:05] good to have to both, uh,

[54:06] measure and ensure

[54:07] accountability.

[54:08] Uh, with.

[54:09] >> that some basic questions.

[54:10] Do we know how many jobs does

[54:11] this training cover if

[54:12] implemented?

[54:13] Do we know how many actual

[54:14] security guards are out there

[54:16] that this would, uh, impact?

[54:18] I have not done that analysis

[54:19] yet but we could get that the

[54:20] answer to that question for

[54:20] you.

[54:21] Thank you.

[54:23] Um, and who pays for it?

[54:25] I think I know, but I just want

[54:25] to say for.

[54:26] >> the training.

[54:27] The employers.

[54:28] The employers of each

[54:29] individual got whoever they're

[54:29] with.

[54:30] Right.

[54:32] Um, is current training.

[54:33] Uh.

[54:34] >> by those companies that own

[54:35] a company by company basis or

[54:37] is it by sight etc..

[54:38] Uh and what.

[54:40] Standards do they base their

[54:43] training off of if any at the

[54:43] moment?

[54:45] At the moment there are no

[54:45] standards.

[54:47] It's my understanding that

[54:49] they're each company does some

[54:51] level of baseline training and

[54:52] then depending upon the site

[54:54] that they are assigned to there

[54:56] MAY or MAY not be additional

[54:57] training and it can be as

[55:01] little as from what I've seen

[55:01] eight hours.

[55:04] Um but then additional training

[55:05] MAY happen on site.

[55:06] But there's nothing that the

[55:07] local, state or federal level

[55:10] that holds them to any sort

[55:10] of standard.

[55:11] >> at the moment.

[55:11] That is correct for.

[55:12] Unarmed yards.

[55:13] great.

[55:14] >> thank you.

[55:15] Um.

[55:17] >> what are we worried about?

[55:18] What is this.

[55:19] That the training that they

[55:22] would be put into if we have a

[55:23] standard what is it

[55:24] specifically there to address?

[55:26] What is the problem that it's

[55:27] trying to solve?

[55:30] I think the next panel will

[55:31] give a lot more detail if you

[55:32] want to hear from frontline

[55:33] workers first and foremost, but

[55:36] I believe that unarmed workers

[55:38] are increasingly part of our

[55:41] public safety ecosystem and are

[55:44] consistently put in positions

[55:47] of um where they're dealing

[55:49] with aggressive confrontations,

[55:51] medical issues that they are

[55:54] not necessarily receiving the

[55:55] proper training to keep

[55:56] themselves in the public sector

[55:57] .

[55:59] So it's fair to say just all

[56:01] around general increase in

[56:02] certain behaviors that need to

[56:04] be trained for now rather than

[56:05] any specific.

[56:07] And playing an increasing role

[56:08] .

[56:08] >> yeah.

[56:09] Fair enough.

[56:09] Great.

[56:10] Thank you.

[56:14] Um kind of in the weeds here

[56:15] but I know what the ordinance

[56:16] asks for if they employ more

[56:18] than two security guards that

[56:19] are within city limits.

[56:22] So say I'm company x and I have

[56:25] 20 security guards, 18 are out

[56:27] in western mass but two are in

[56:27] the city.

[56:28] Does the training.

[56:30] Apply to all 20.

[56:31] >> or just the two within the

[56:32] city or I understand if they

[56:33] rotate and it makes it

[56:34] different right.

[56:36] But is it for anyone that is in

[56:37] the city?

[56:38] Does it uh automatically touch

[56:39] the entire company?

[56:43] The ordinance would apply to

[56:44] workers in the city of boston.

[56:46] Um, so I believe it's just

[56:47] those two.

[56:48] But I do want to have a little

[56:50] bit more time to go through in

[56:50] more detail.

[56:53] And you have the number of uh,

[56:54] workers in boston who are.

[56:55] 9000.

[56:57] >> 9000 and I'm security

[56:57] guards.

[56:58] Thank you.

[56:59] Um.

[57:02] Who was I?

[57:02] My next one.

[57:03] Um.

[57:04] >> oh, so.

[57:06] Rule 400.

[57:08] >> was repealed several years

[57:12] ago now, uh, and I believe that

[57:14] created the unarmed security

[57:15] guard in a way because they

[57:16] weren't allowed to have

[57:16] weapons.

[57:19] Is this end result is this in

[57:21] response to rule 400 going away

[57:23] and the need to bring back more

[57:24] training for that?

[57:25] I know they can't still they

[57:26] are not armed guards.

[57:29] Um but I know that in dealing

[57:30] with taking care of property

[57:31] with munis etc..

[57:34] Uh they didn't have that they

[57:35] could not actually put their

[57:36] hands on individuals to remove

[57:38] them from science because

[57:39] of rule 400.

[57:39] .

[57:40] >> to the best of my knowledge

[57:42] the answer to that question is

[57:42] no.

[57:43] I think these problems have uh,

[57:45] bedeviled this industry for a

[57:46] lot longer than the repeal

[57:48] of rule 400 and I think this is

[57:49] a long time coming.

[57:51] So I don't think the two are,

[57:53] uh, directly connected.

[57:53] Okay.

[57:55] >> and is there anything in the

[57:57] training that we would seek for

[58:01] them to get does not um, put

[58:03] back anything that was taken

[58:04] away with that.

[58:06] Repeal here again here again

[58:07] council the trouble is we've

[58:09] got a baseline here that's in

[58:10] the draft ordinance that's in

[58:11] front of us and we're talking.

[58:11] >> to you about.

[58:13] Building above the baseline and

[58:15] what's in it and what we do and

[58:16] how we do it is still to come.

[58:17] Fair enough.

[58:21] Um, you say you've talked with

[58:23] uh, philadelphia they have

[58:24] implemented this.

[58:26] We have reached out to them and

[58:27] we found the correct they are

[58:29] working on implementation now

[58:30] and they're totally looking

[58:31] forward to sharing with us what

[58:33] they've learned and um,

[58:35] allowing us to learn from from

[58:36] what worked well didn't work

[58:36] well there.

[58:38] But yeah, my question is

[58:38] question is going to be is

[58:39] there any foresight on what to

[58:40] expect but so yet to come.

[58:41] We look forward to those

[58:42] conversations.

[58:43] Um and is there any.

[58:45] Unintended consequences this

[58:46] MAY have on other businesses?

[58:47] Uh.

[58:49] Given the terminology used in

[58:51] the ordinance um, is there

[58:52] anyone else that could be is

[58:54] there a gray area of is there

[58:57] strictly security guard uh,

[58:58] companies and I'm security.

[58:59] guard companies and that is it

[59:01] or does it does it bleed into

[59:02] anything elsewhere?

[59:04] Someone out there you know, as

[59:05] we go down the line here,

[59:06] someone else might raise their

[59:07] hand and reach out to us and

[59:09] say hey john, you know I know

[59:11] you wouldn't think it but this

[59:13] affects me and here's what it

[59:13] will do to my business,

[59:14] company, neighborhood etc..

[59:18] And the definitions are pretty

[59:19] significant that are pretty

[59:21] clear as to who this covers.

[59:24] Um but I think I can only

[59:26] answer that we would go by this

[59:27] definition and I think it's um.

[59:28] Do you have the definition

[59:30] because I'm sorry I don't but

[59:31] and what what is the definition

[59:33] of an unarmed security guard?

[59:36] It is um well definition of of

[59:37] the employer.

[59:39] The security employer is anyone

[59:41] who employers employees two or

[59:43] more unarmed security guards to

[59:45] perform security services

[59:47] services at one or more

[59:48] covered property.

[59:48] Okay.

[59:50] >> and has nothing about what

[59:51] an and I'm sure there's no

[59:53] definition for the unarmed

[59:54] security guard and what.

[59:57] There is it's a larger

[59:57] paragraph.

[59:59] Um but again we would we would

[1:00:03] use this and um but it's always

[1:00:05] I can't answer whether or not

[1:00:06] they're unintended consequences

[1:00:06] .

[1:00:08] We would we would look at this

[1:00:10] very closely as we move forward

[1:00:11] with our due diligence to

[1:00:13] ensure that we are taking into

[1:00:15] account as much as we possibly

[1:00:16] could and meet with

[1:00:17] stakeholders to try to

[1:00:17] understand that.

[1:00:18] and we will work with you guys

[1:00:19] along the way.

[1:00:20] As we do that.

[1:00:20] That's our intent so.

[1:00:21] >> look forward to it.

[1:00:22] Thank you, MADAM Chair.

[1:00:23] No further questions.

[1:00:23] Thank you.

[1:00:24] >> the chair recognizes

[1:00:25] councilor weber.

[1:00:26] You have the floor and seven

[1:00:26] minutes.

[1:00:28] Okay.

[1:00:29] >> thank you.

[1:00:29] Uh.

[1:00:30] >> yeah.

[1:00:31] >> I think, um.

[1:00:33] Councilor fitzgerald.

[1:00:34] Stole my first question, which

[1:00:35] is, you know how many security

[1:00:37] guards uh, do we have here in

[1:00:37] boston?

[1:00:39] And if you do the the research,

[1:00:41] it's 9000.

[1:00:44] Uh, um, where do you do over

[1:00:46] the the country has like 1.3

[1:00:48] million security guards and

[1:00:50] it's more uh, than the, you

[1:00:51] know, total number of police

[1:00:53] officers across the country

[1:00:53] here.

[1:00:55] It's the same in boston.

[1:00:57] This is like a large group

[1:01:00] of people, um, who are often,

[1:01:01] you know, paid among the lowest

[1:01:03] wages and asked to put

[1:01:05] themselves in harm's way often

[1:01:07] and work tedious shifts and

[1:01:07] hours.

[1:01:08] And so I.

[1:01:09] I.

[1:01:11] ,uh I know a lot of the

[1:01:13] studies highlight how many

[1:01:14] of these workers there are and

[1:01:15] obviously there's a lot here.

[1:01:17] Just think about how it dwarfs

[1:01:18] our own police department.

[1:01:20] Um I'm getting up to speed

[1:01:22] there there is an article I

[1:01:23] think that the uc berkeley

[1:01:25] labor center put out this month

[1:01:26] or in the last month.

[1:01:27] Actually JULY.

[1:01:28] >> 2026.

[1:01:30] Called underpaid, undervalued

[1:01:30] and essential.

[1:01:32] I don't know if anyone talked

[1:01:32] about this already.

[1:01:33] Uh it's the security guard

[1:01:35] workforce in the united states

[1:01:37] is kind of outlines a lot

[1:01:38] of issues I think that occur

[1:01:40] you know, uh, in the in the

[1:01:42] work space for our security

[1:01:44] guards um, even just finding

[1:01:46] out how many there are this

[1:01:49] sort of eye opening um, to do

[1:01:50] you.

[1:01:51] Uh, I.

[1:01:53] >> guess so do we already

[1:01:55] certify companies to do to do

[1:01:56] this work?

[1:01:58] Uh, no we don't, you know,

[1:01:58] track them.

[1:02:03] Um uh, do you know if they're

[1:02:05] and I don't think this is part

[1:02:07] of this ordinance but is any

[1:02:09] thought been given to

[1:02:10] background checks for people

[1:02:12] who work as security guards?

[1:02:16] I believe that is included.

[1:02:18] But I'm not 100% don't quote

[1:02:20] me but okay, but I believe

[1:02:20] that's included in.

[1:02:22] >> the I'll leave the file here

[1:02:23] too so if you want to address

[1:02:25] that later uh, we we have

[1:02:26] background checks for people

[1:02:27] going into this kind of work.

[1:02:31] Um, and I guess in terms of I

[1:02:32] think we are just sort

[1:02:34] of touching on this uh, getting

[1:02:37] to who's covered and um.

[1:02:38] I guess what's to.

[1:02:40] Stop uh, someone from saying

[1:02:42] well, that that person who's

[1:02:44] working at the desk is not

[1:02:46] providing security services

[1:02:47] under he they're just.

[1:02:49] They're a concierge or

[1:02:49] something.

[1:02:51] How to how do we how do we

[1:02:52] handle that?

[1:02:53] How does this ordinance deal

[1:02:53] with.

[1:02:56] The ordinance has a structure

[1:02:57] for enforcement where people

[1:02:59] can make complaints if they

[1:03:02] believe that they are um,

[1:03:04] working and uh, job that

[1:03:05] security and they don't have

[1:03:06] the proper training.

[1:03:09] Um, so there are administrative

[1:03:10] enforcement and penalties

[1:03:11] detailed in the ordinance.

[1:03:14] Um, I have not had an

[1:03:15] opportunity to go through the

[1:03:17] in detail to again

[1:03:19] operationalizing this is um

[1:03:21] work that is yet to be that we

[1:03:23] have to do still okay.

[1:03:25] And then in terms of protective

[1:03:27] gear you know like is are we

[1:03:30] going to like um sort

[1:03:32] of mandate companies to provide

[1:03:33] like sort of non-lethal

[1:03:37] protective measures for people

[1:03:38] or what what is the thinking on

[1:03:38] that?

[1:03:41] This focuses on training not

[1:03:43] protective gear or requirements

[1:03:45] around protective gear, but it

[1:03:48] does focus on the necessary

[1:03:51] health and safety training,

[1:03:51] de-escalation etc. That's

[1:03:51] required.

[1:03:53] Um okay.

[1:03:57] And then in terms of the I mean

[1:04:00] the the shifts uh that people

[1:04:02] are required to work I mean is

[1:04:03] there I don't know philadelphia

[1:04:04] or any of these other places

[1:04:04] too.

[1:04:07] They look at trying to I think

[1:04:09] it's often I don't know how you

[1:04:11] know, 12 hour shifts or

[1:04:11] overnight.

[1:04:14] Is there any benefit to

[1:04:16] requiring shorter shifts for

[1:04:18] people or regulating them?

[1:04:20] go ahead.

[1:04:20] >> yeah.

[1:04:22] >> uh I mean, councilor, this

[1:04:23] is exactly the kind of work

[1:04:24] that we have to do.

[1:04:26] Moving forward both with the

[1:04:27] ordinance and the

[1:04:27] implementation.

[1:04:29] I appreciate.

[1:04:31] These fine grained questions,

[1:04:34] but they're not ones that we

[1:04:35] can answer as we talked today.

[1:04:36] Okay.

[1:04:38] I you know, just want to shoot

[1:04:39] straight with you about what we

[1:04:41] are equipped to do and not do

[1:04:41] today.

[1:04:44] Um, so.

[1:04:46] So sounds good.

[1:04:47] Uh, and did you.

[1:04:48] Know I.

[1:04:49] Do we.

[1:04:51] >> have several large employers

[1:04:52] uh, here in the city.

[1:04:54] Usually they're concentrated.

[1:04:56] You know who who the large

[1:04:57] employers are in boston.

[1:04:57] Yeah.

[1:04:59] >> we've had an opportunity to

[1:05:00] speak with at least one who I

[1:05:01] believe has submitted testimony

[1:05:04] here today and, um, we would

[1:05:06] want to be able to move forward

[1:05:07] in the work ahead that

[1:05:09] involving all stakeholders

[1:05:09] including.

[1:05:10] >> them employers.

[1:05:11] Okay.

[1:05:13] >> um.

[1:05:14] ,and.

[1:05:17] In terms of administering this

[1:05:18] uh, you know, we've talked

[1:05:19] about this in other contexts

[1:05:20] like.

[1:05:23] What does your office will that

[1:05:25] you need more people in your

[1:05:27] office to do this work or how

[1:05:29] how can you handle it?

[1:05:31] Um, again, we haven't had a

[1:05:32] chance to really understand

[1:05:34] what capacity is needed to

[1:05:36] operationalize this.

[1:05:38] Um, but we are a small office

[1:05:40] and there's a lot of work to

[1:05:42] determine how we would move

[1:05:43] forward and what capacity we

[1:05:44] need.

[1:05:45] Okay.

[1:05:48] >> so we would need to set up a

[1:05:49] a database.

[1:05:50] Can you just walk me.

[1:05:51] Through what you what you think

[1:05:52] needs to happen?

[1:05:55] Uh, you know, if we pass this

[1:05:56] in your office.

[1:06:00] Um, as with the heat ordinance

[1:06:02] and other ordinance we've been

[1:06:03] tasked with, we first try to

[1:06:05] understand exactly what is

[1:06:08] required and then set up an

[1:06:10] implementation infrastructure

[1:06:12] and, um, philadelphia and other

[1:06:14] places they've hired a, um,

[1:06:15] consultant to set up the

[1:06:17] permitting system.

[1:06:18] That MAY be something we need

[1:06:20] here in boston, but I think as

[1:06:21] we've said, there's there's

[1:06:23] still a lot of work ahead to

[1:06:25] understand exactly what is

[1:06:26] required, what capacity would

[1:06:28] be needed and what strategies

[1:06:30] we would use to to meet that.

[1:06:33] Um, okay.

[1:06:35] Uh I think that's.

[1:06:36] All for my questions.

[1:06:37] Thank thank you chair.

[1:06:40] Thank you.

[1:06:43] Um, the chair recognizes

[1:06:43] councilor culpeper.

[1:06:44] You have the floor.

[1:06:44] In seven minutes.

[1:06:46] Thank you, MADAM Chair.

[1:06:48] I want to begin by

[1:06:50] acknowledging what I think is

[1:06:52] an important common ground in

[1:06:52] this conversation.

[1:06:55] We know security officers play

[1:06:56] an important role in keeping

[1:07:00] people safe across our city,

[1:07:02] often an incredibly difficult

[1:07:04] and unpredictable

[1:07:05] circumstances.

[1:07:07] They deserve to have training

[1:07:09] and preparation and support

[1:07:11] necessary to do their job

[1:07:12] safely and effectively.

[1:07:14] Here's what's interesting as we

[1:07:16] discuss training for security

[1:07:19] officers um while in law

[1:07:22] student and law school uh, I

[1:07:24] was a security officer uh,

[1:07:26] untrained uh, and they put

[1:07:28] me in a warehouse and some

[1:07:28] of you.

[1:07:29] Big huge.

[1:07:32] Warehouse and I was there all

[1:07:33] night by myself.

[1:07:35] The good news is that I had a

[1:07:37] german shepherd named ginger

[1:07:38] that took good care of me.

[1:07:41] I had no training whatsoever.

[1:07:43] And when I think about where we

[1:07:45] are now, I think about how long

[1:07:48] ago that was and no training

[1:07:52] has been, uh, discussed in a

[1:07:54] serious way like we are now and

[1:07:56] now we're at the point where we

[1:07:57] have an ordinance of by

[1:07:57] training.

[1:08:02] I think there's broad agreement

[1:08:03] that there's a big gap here.

[1:08:05] Unlike most states,

[1:08:07] massachusetts does not

[1:08:08] currently require training.

[1:08:11] And when you think about

[1:08:12] philadelphia and we'll talk

[1:08:14] about philadelphia in a minute

[1:08:16] ,um, my question is that

[1:08:19] they're not coming from a place

[1:08:20] of opposition to training.

[1:08:22] They're coming from a place

[1:08:25] of wanting to understand how we

[1:08:26] operationalize this proposal

[1:08:27] successfully.

[1:08:29] You've heard a lot of questions

[1:08:31] about how do we actually

[1:08:33] operationalize this, especially

[1:08:35] when you look at philadelphia,

[1:08:37] they had to stop the program

[1:08:40] completely because when they

[1:08:42] got it started they hadn't

[1:08:47] planned in a way that required

[1:08:48] everything to be in place that

[1:08:49] was necessary.

[1:08:51] I look at the size of your

[1:08:52] office and we'll talk about

[1:08:53] that a little bit.

[1:08:55] I heard you mention that you

[1:08:56] had a small office.

[1:08:58] We'll talk a little bit about

[1:08:58] that.

[1:09:00] Uh, but we've heard concerns

[1:09:02] about the 40 hour requirement,

[1:09:05] the capacity of city to certify

[1:09:07] training providers and

[1:09:08] administer a new permitting

[1:09:11] system, the cost to employers

[1:09:12] and institutions that contract

[1:09:14] with them, whether existing

[1:09:16] high quality training should

[1:09:18] receive some form of credit.

[1:09:20] We also heard and I talked and

[1:09:22] we'll talk more about

[1:09:24] philadelphia, but that

[1:09:25] experience should not

[1:09:27] necessarily tell boston not to

[1:09:29] add but I think it should cause

[1:09:31] us to ask what we can learn

[1:09:32] from it and we'll talk about

[1:09:33] that a little bit.

[1:09:35] What lessons learned from

[1:09:37] philadelphia in trying to

[1:09:38] implement a system that they

[1:09:39] weren't prepared to implement.

[1:09:41] And my goal today is pretty

[1:09:42] simple I want to understand

[1:09:44] what problem we are trying to

[1:09:46] solve, what infrastructure is

[1:09:48] necessary to solve it, what

[1:09:50] implement implementation will

[1:09:52] actually require the city and

[1:09:54] employers and whether there are

[1:09:56] adjustments we can make that

[1:09:57] preserved the intent of this

[1:09:59] ordinance while making sure it

[1:10:01] works in practice if we're

[1:10:02] going to establish a new

[1:10:04] system, a new standard, I want

[1:10:06] it to be a standard that is

[1:10:08] meaningful for workers,

[1:10:10] manageable for employers,

[1:10:12] enforceable by the city and

[1:10:15] ultimately one that makes boces

[1:10:15] safer.

[1:10:17] So let's talk a little bit

[1:10:18] about the size of your office.

[1:10:21] What is the size of your office

[1:10:22] and what do you think you need?

[1:10:24] And I heard council weber kind

[1:10:25] of allude to that.

[1:10:28] But as you look at what's

[1:10:30] required in ordinance, what do

[1:10:32] you think you need in terms

[1:10:34] of additional staffing to

[1:10:37] actually uh, operationalize and

[1:10:39] implement this ordinance in the

[1:10:41] way that we've seen other

[1:10:42] states have implemented?

[1:10:44] Well, first I think we share

[1:10:45] the same goals.

[1:10:47] So thank you, um,

[1:10:48] councilor culpeper for laying

[1:10:49] that out.

[1:10:51] Our office is small in addition

[1:10:53] to myself we have three staff.

[1:10:56] We enforce the wage theft

[1:10:57] executive order, the living

[1:11:00] wage ordinance and the heat

[1:11:02] ordinance and we also do

[1:11:04] workers rights training and

[1:11:05] outreach and health and safety

[1:11:05] training and outreach.

[1:11:10] So um we have to we would have

[1:11:12] to do uh our due diligence to

[1:11:14] really understand what is

[1:11:14] involved.

[1:11:15] Before I could answer the

[1:11:18] question about what capacity we

[1:11:20] need, I don't really know until

[1:11:21] I've had that opportunity.

[1:11:23] I will say we are very lucky to

[1:11:26] ,um, have the opportunity to

[1:11:27] be in community with other

[1:11:28] municipal labor departments

[1:11:32] like philadelphia, new york and

[1:11:33] otherwise who've taken on some

[1:11:35] of these tasks and we intend to

[1:11:37] learn from them of what has

[1:11:38] worked, what hasn't worked, the

[1:11:41] kind of capacity um and I think

[1:11:43] we've always looked at

[1:11:45] opportunities to ensure that we

[1:11:49] are creating meaningful, um,

[1:11:51] meaningful laws in compliance

[1:11:53] and I turn to our living wage

[1:11:55] wage theft executive order in

[1:11:57] the implementation of the

[1:11:59] recent ordinance around um

[1:12:00] protecting workers from heat,

[1:12:03] we really looked at what we had

[1:12:04] the capacity to do and how we

[1:12:06] could utilize our resources for

[1:12:09] the maximum impact and we'd

[1:12:10] like to do that here as well.

[1:12:11] >> in terms of philadelphia,

[1:12:13] what was there did that give

[1:12:15] you any glaring problems that

[1:12:17] they said this has been a major

[1:12:18] problem for us.

[1:12:19] I have not yet had an

[1:12:20] opportunity to have the

[1:12:21] conversation with them.

[1:12:24] I have been able to identify

[1:12:25] the key staff person

[1:12:26] implementing that and look

[1:12:28] forward to having the

[1:12:29] conversation.

[1:12:31] Um, you know for we are just

[1:12:32] getting started and

[1:12:32] understanding this.

[1:12:35] So um we reached out to them

[1:12:38] and just have set up some

[1:12:38] initial.

[1:12:39] >> phone calls.

[1:12:40] Counselor, if I MAY.

[1:12:40] I think talking.

[1:12:42] About talking to labor folks in

[1:12:43] philadelphia is going to be

[1:12:43] important too.

[1:12:44] >> that's another have you

[1:12:45] talked to them yet?

[1:12:46] We're working on that as well.

[1:12:48] And what have they told you so

[1:12:49] far?

[1:12:50] Uh, we we're literally working

[1:12:52] on setting up the conversation.

[1:12:52] Okay.

[1:12:54] >> could you report back to us

[1:12:55] as you get the information?

[1:12:56] it's going to be helpful to

[1:12:58] look at that as we assess it.

[1:12:59] And let me ask you a question,

[1:13:00] lou.

[1:13:01] You said a minute ago to

[1:13:03] council whether you say we're

[1:13:08] here to do we are here giving

[1:13:10] you what we can do or not what

[1:13:11] we can't do today.

[1:13:12] Yeah.

[1:13:13] What can you tell us today

[1:13:16] about the ordinance as you

[1:13:19] assessed it in terms

[1:13:20] of implementation issues other

[1:13:21] than staffing?

[1:13:24] I think that's difficult and I

[1:13:25] think that that we've

[1:13:26] repeatedly answered that

[1:13:27] question that going further

[1:13:28] than the text of the ordinance

[1:13:30] today without the conversations

[1:13:31] with the folks in philly,

[1:13:32] without the conversations with

[1:13:34] other municipalities makes it

[1:13:35] difficult to answer those

[1:13:36] questions.

[1:13:39] So that is not you know, anyone

[1:13:41] trying to mislead you or

[1:13:42] obfuscate or any.

[1:13:42] >> of that.

[1:13:44] >> it's literally we don't have

[1:13:44] that information.

[1:13:45] We haven't had those

[1:13:46] conversations we want to.

[1:13:48] And in response to your

[1:13:49] question about seasonally

[1:13:51] updating you with information

[1:13:52] will be glad to do that.

[1:13:54] MADAM Chair, MAY I have one

[1:13:55] question or are we going to

[1:13:56] have a second round?

[1:13:58] I mean if we have a second

[1:13:59] round I'm good.

[1:14:01] Just ask you you MAY ask you

[1:14:03] you MAY have additional time

[1:14:05] counselor reverend culpeper you

[1:14:06] MAY ask for additional

[1:14:06] questions.

[1:14:08] From real quick question is

[1:14:10] there a way we could and within

[1:14:14] this ordinance create an

[1:14:15] equivalency or accreditation

[1:14:18] process with a city of value

[1:14:19] evaluator curriculum rather

[1:14:22] than the tax status of the

[1:14:23] organized organization

[1:14:23] delivering it?

[1:14:26] How do we come to use tax

[1:14:28] status as the basis for.

[1:14:29] This training?

[1:14:34] Uh, well counselor, I'll say

[1:14:35] this I you all are the ones

[1:14:36] that are going to pass the

[1:14:38] ordinance and we'll all work

[1:14:38] together to do that.

[1:14:41] So I think, uh, anything is

[1:14:42] possible when you're drafting

[1:14:44] an ordinance as long as it

[1:14:45] conforms to the law and the

[1:14:45] home rule charter.

[1:14:47] .

[1:14:49] >> you mute write about texas.

[1:14:51] But MADAM Chair.

[1:14:52] >> I only answer like I

[1:14:52] answered your question.

[1:14:53] >> in a manner of speaking.

[1:14:54] >> back to it.

[1:14:56] Uh, if there's a second round.

[1:14:58] Thank you.

[1:14:59] >> council culpeper.

[1:15:00] If you have additional

[1:15:03] questions I think that now is

[1:15:04] the time to ask them.

[1:15:06] I've got for this for this

[1:15:07] panel.

[1:15:10] Yeah but I mean are you are you

[1:15:11] going to let them go.

[1:15:12] Now I, I mean.

[1:15:13] >> do any of my.

[1:15:14] >> other colleagues have

[1:15:15] additional questions and I have

[1:15:18] not yet asked my questions so

[1:15:20] uh if you have additional

[1:15:21] questions okay okay.

[1:15:22] Thank you.

[1:15:24] Thank you and I will I will

[1:15:27] start the timer at seven

[1:15:27] minutes.

[1:15:30] Um, and state that I've been

[1:15:32] informed that there are some

[1:15:33] entities that do offer this

[1:15:34] training and they are a

[1:15:35] nonprofit some of our our

[1:15:37] community colleges and so that

[1:15:39] could be I mean I'll defer to

[1:15:41] the sponsor but that could be a

[1:15:43] reason why that that language

[1:15:44] is in the ordinance.

[1:15:47] I believe the reason why you

[1:15:48] respond to this way is that the

[1:15:50] ordinance does originate with

[1:15:50] us.

[1:15:52] And so as counselors, if we do

[1:15:54] want to alter the language,

[1:15:56] probably make it more expansive

[1:15:58] to include for profit or other

[1:16:01] entities that is our ability we

[1:16:03] have that ability to do so in a

[1:16:04] working session as we work on

[1:16:06] the language of the ordinance.

[1:16:08] I'm I'm I was just trying to

[1:16:10] friendly like be friendly and

[1:16:11] answer your question but I do

[1:16:12] have my questions for this

[1:16:14] panel and if there's a second

[1:16:15] round I'll go back to you.

[1:16:16] Thank you.

[1:16:17] Thank you.

[1:16:18] So um I had six questions here.

[1:16:20] My colleagues have asked I

[1:16:22] believe 2 or 3 of them, but,

[1:16:24] um, deputy director sugarman

[1:16:26] broaden what you said when you

[1:16:28] spoke about the your office.

[1:16:30] I wonder how do you see this

[1:16:32] ordinance fitting into the work

[1:16:34] that your office already does?

[1:16:35] How does it fit into sort

[1:16:37] of like the thesis of the

[1:16:39] office of, uh, worker

[1:16:39] empowerment?

[1:16:42] I think it fits with the very

[1:16:43] well within the worker

[1:16:45] empowerment cabinet first and

[1:16:46] foremost through our office

[1:16:47] of labor compliance and worker

[1:16:48] protections.

[1:16:50] It gives us the opportunity and

[1:16:51] strategies to ensure workers

[1:16:54] are safe and that they receive

[1:16:56] the training they need to be

[1:16:59] safe and to be able to do their

[1:16:59] jobs.

[1:17:00] I think that the office

[1:17:01] of workforce development, which

[1:17:03] is a part of the worker

[1:17:05] empowerment cabinet, its

[1:17:07] mission is to ensure that there

[1:17:10] are pathways to good quality um

[1:17:10] careers.

[1:17:12] We invest in training programs

[1:17:13] to the office of workforce

[1:17:14] development all the time.

[1:17:15] We've learned quite a bit

[1:17:16] through that and through

[1:17:17] implementing the neighborhood

[1:17:18] jobs trust.

[1:17:20] So I would lean heavily on the

[1:17:21] experience of office

[1:17:22] of workforce development as we

[1:17:23] move forward with understanding

[1:17:24] how to operationalize this.

[1:17:25] Thank you.

[1:17:26] >> thank you.

[1:17:28] And then um, my colleagues kind

[1:17:31] of asked this question, um, is

[1:17:34] what benefit do you see in sort

[1:17:35] of uh having a level

[1:17:36] of consistency in the type

[1:17:41] of training across um across

[1:17:42] this industry?

[1:17:44] Um, we do know that there was

[1:17:45] an unarmed security guard that

[1:17:46] was recently injured here in

[1:17:46] our city.

[1:17:48] Um, and there's an unarmed

[1:17:50] security guard in new york city

[1:17:52] who was fatally who was fatally

[1:17:55] killed as well, um, at the nfl

[1:17:55] building.

[1:17:57] And so MAY his memory be

[1:17:59] honored in the work that we do

[1:18:00] to try to make sure that, you

[1:18:01] know, when you talk when folks

[1:18:03] ask about the genesis and the

[1:18:05] need for these trainings, I

[1:18:06] think that's where it starts.

[1:18:06] Okay.

[1:18:08] What benefit do you see to any

[1:18:10] sort of standardization either

[1:18:10] lou or jody?

[1:18:13] Uh, so counselor, I think the

[1:18:15] answer to that is um,

[1:18:16] essentially what we have now is

[1:18:17] a patchwork.

[1:18:18] Uh, some of these trainings MAY

[1:18:19] be very good.

[1:18:20] Some of them MAY be

[1:18:21] non-existent, some of them MAY

[1:18:22] be middling.

[1:18:24] But the point is we don't have

[1:18:25] a uniform standard and that's

[1:18:27] why this is beneficial at its

[1:18:27] base.

[1:18:29] That's why this is beneficial

[1:18:30] guarantees a uniform standard

[1:18:32] and everybody knows you know

[1:18:34] what's baked into the training

[1:18:35] and it's promulgated by the

[1:18:35] city.

[1:18:39] Uh so I think that that is the

[1:18:39] overwhelming benefit

[1:18:40] of considering doing this.

[1:18:41] Thank you.

[1:18:42] >> one concern we've heard is

[1:18:44] that the ordinance could

[1:18:45] duplicate trainings and again

[1:18:47] I've spoken to small business

[1:18:47] owners.

[1:18:50] I've spoken to um, some of uh

[1:18:52] our large institutions already

[1:18:53] about this ordinance and I've

[1:18:55] heard their concerns from um

[1:18:58] especially our um, black owned

[1:19:00] uh, companies and know that

[1:19:02] there are especially for our

[1:19:03] small business that there are

[1:19:03] concerns.

[1:19:05] So what could we do?

[1:19:07] Um, is there a way to recognize

[1:19:08] strong existing programs while

[1:19:09] still making sure every worker

[1:19:10] meets the same minimum standard

[1:19:10] ?

[1:19:14] I think it's important to talk

[1:19:15] to those people providing the

[1:19:16] training and find out what they

[1:19:19] have to say and look, uh, a

[1:19:20] good idea is a good idea

[1:19:21] regardless of where it comes

[1:19:21] from.

[1:19:22] So if there's training that

[1:19:24] helps enhance what we're doing

[1:19:25] here or we learn things in the

[1:19:26] industry, that's all work we

[1:19:27] should do.

[1:19:29] Uh, so but to answer your

[1:19:30] question, I think it's

[1:19:31] important to have those

[1:19:32] conversations and understand

[1:19:35] what the landscape is and see

[1:19:36] if there are things that we can

[1:19:37] replicate or take or borrow or

[1:19:37] enhance.

[1:19:40] Um, so that's what I would say.

[1:19:41] Thank you.

[1:19:43] And then what do you think like

[1:19:44] the council especially when we

[1:19:47] talk about um you know for our

[1:19:48] small businesses but and we

[1:19:49] know there are a lot of large

[1:19:52] players here as well um, how do

[1:19:53] we do this work?

[1:19:54] And I'm sure we'll hear

[1:19:55] testimony and we've received it

[1:19:56] as well without creating

[1:19:59] unnecessary barriers of entry

[1:20:01] or of continuation for workers

[1:20:03] and employers, many of whom

[1:20:04] have already expressed that

[1:20:06] they do some some level

[1:20:07] of training already.

[1:20:12] Uh, I would say again

[1:20:14] council those folks we have to

[1:20:15] talk to we have to talk to

[1:20:16] folks about the burdens of this

[1:20:18] and what it in genders and

[1:20:19] ensure that, you know, those

[1:20:21] folks are heard from and that

[1:20:22] they're protected and that

[1:20:24] we're not sort of unnecessarily

[1:20:25] doing something to important

[1:20:26] neighborhood businesses or

[1:20:27] something like that.

[1:20:28] These are just conversations we

[1:20:29] have to have.

[1:20:29] Thank you.

[1:20:30] >> thank you.

[1:20:30] Those are.

[1:20:31] >> my questions.

[1:20:33] i think I did five minutes um

[1:20:36] going to um look to my

[1:20:38] colleagues for any second round

[1:20:38] of questions.

[1:20:40] I see your light and I know

[1:20:41] council coburn MAY have

[1:20:41] questions.

[1:20:43] I was very generous on the

[1:20:44] front end with seven minutes.

[1:20:46] I also do want to make sure

[1:20:47] that we can get to our work uh

[1:20:49] to our to our next panel and I

[1:20:50] then do want to make sure that

[1:20:51] we can get to public testimony.

[1:20:52] I do not have a second round.

[1:20:53] The lead sponsor does not have

[1:20:54] a second round counter flynn,

[1:20:55] you have a second round.

[1:20:56] You have three minutes for that

[1:20:57] second round.

[1:20:58] Thank you.

[1:21:03] >> lou did you reach out to

[1:21:06] beckman on this issue and if so

[1:21:07] what was their response?

[1:21:09] Uh counselor, I think I

[1:21:10] answered that in the first

[1:21:11] instance and said that beckman

[1:21:12] is a group that we need to talk

[1:21:13] to, but we have not yet.

[1:21:14] Okay.

[1:21:16] >> a little I'm just asking you

[1:21:16] a question.

[1:21:18] I'm just respectfully asking a

[1:21:19] question him.

[1:21:20] And I'm pointing out it's a

[1:21:20] question.

[1:21:21] >> I already answered.

[1:21:21] Okay.

[1:21:25] >> so do you want to provide

[1:21:26] any additional information on

[1:21:26] that.

[1:21:27] >> that I've reached out to

[1:21:28] them and that we have in

[1:21:29] contact again?

[1:21:30] Yeah no.

[1:21:31] >> I don't that's all I have to

[1:21:32] say okay.

[1:21:38] Lou what's the status of the uh

[1:21:38] civilian flag positions?

[1:21:47] Uh, we are working so that uh

[1:21:48] there are two aspects of that.

[1:21:50] Uh, there is an rfp that we put

[1:21:54] out uh, relative to an app that

[1:21:56] operates uh, those that uh is

[1:21:57] proceeding along and we are

[1:21:59] also have another uh

[1:22:02] procurement where we have um

[1:22:03] it's been won by the ed davis

[1:22:05] company and we are working

[1:22:06] through uh, the process

[1:22:10] of prospect of setting up uh,

[1:22:13] that program now um, we've had

[1:22:13] um.

[1:22:16] Uh it's been slow largely

[1:22:19] because of the app but um it is

[1:22:20] proceeding apace.

[1:22:23] I can get, uh, more detailed

[1:22:24] information and update you if

[1:22:24] that's helpful.

[1:22:25] Sure.

[1:22:27] >> and let me I have another

[1:22:28] minute left.

[1:22:29] But why don't you think it

[1:22:31] wasn't important for you to

[1:22:32] reach out to beckman?

[1:22:34] Wouldn't they play a critical

[1:22:37] role in ensuring that small

[1:22:39] businesses owned by people

[1:22:40] of color are included?

[1:22:41] Council I I don't know if

[1:22:42] something's getting lost in the

[1:22:43] translation here, but what I've

[1:22:45] said twice is that we've

[1:22:46] reached out to beckman.

[1:22:47] >> I haven't talked to them.

[1:22:49] I'm asking no no no no.

[1:22:49] No no no.

[1:22:50] >> no no no I'm.

[1:22:53] Okay I am now I am I am now

[1:22:54] interjecting councilor flynn

[1:22:56] you have asked a question he

[1:22:56] has answered it.

[1:22:57] If you have an additional

[1:22:57] question.

[1:23:00] Yes I'm asking so why don't you

[1:23:02] think it was important during

[1:23:04] this conversation to reach out

[1:23:05] to black and brown?

[1:23:06] Counselor.

[1:23:07] >> I don't agree with the

[1:23:08] premise of your question.

[1:23:10] We reached out to beckman.

[1:23:11] We haven't had the opportunity

[1:23:12] to talk to them yet, but we

[1:23:13] fully.

[1:23:13] Intend to do so.

[1:23:15] Well I'm asked we.

[1:23:17] Fully intend to talk to beckman

[1:23:17] low.

[1:23:18] I'm asking.

[1:23:19] He has.

[1:23:19] >> asked and.

[1:23:20] >> answered your.

[1:23:21] Question, MADAM Chair.

[1:23:22] I'm being respectful to them.

[1:23:24] I'm asking in a polite manner.

[1:23:25] I'm asking.

[1:23:26] Questions that I feel.

[1:23:27] Are important.

[1:23:30] I do want to ensure that black

[1:23:33] and brown small businesses are

[1:23:34] heard during this discussion.

[1:23:37] I support this proposal well I

[1:23:39] want I know the important role

[1:23:41] security guards do play in the

[1:23:44] city, but I also want to know

[1:23:45] that black and brown.

[1:23:48] Businesses are going to be

[1:23:49] heard during this process.

[1:23:52] I'm being respectful to you but

[1:23:52] I also.

[1:23:55] Expect that you are respectful

[1:23:55] to me as well.

[1:23:56] I am respectful to you.

[1:23:56] Okay you.

[1:23:59] >> sound like the answer is

[1:23:59] yes.

[1:24:01] Okay thank you.

[1:24:02] >> that is time we are thank

[1:24:03] you for being here.

[1:24:04] Thank you jody we are moving on

[1:24:05] to our second panel.

[1:24:07] If you could please have uh,

[1:24:08] kevin brown executive vice

[1:24:10] PRESIDENT Of 32.

[1:24:11] Pj, if you could please have

[1:24:12] stanley watching.

[1:24:15] Uh, security guard if you could

[1:24:16] please have tonya brown powell.

[1:24:17] Oh.

[1:24:20] >> you had okay you had a

[1:24:21] second round of questions for

[1:24:23] the for this panel.

[1:24:24] Well okay.

[1:24:26] Them in writing.

[1:24:28] Thank you thank you

[1:24:29] council thank you and apologies

[1:24:30] but yes thank you for allowing

[1:24:32] us to move on to the second

[1:24:33] thank you when we already have

[1:24:35] a few questions that we have to

[1:24:35] submit in writing.

[1:24:37] So we could just add those on

[1:24:38] and the administration can

[1:24:39] answer thank you.

[1:24:41] If uh the panel can please

[1:24:41] proceed.

[1:24:44] Tanya brown powell, jeff

[1:24:47] franchetti and kim rodriguez.

[1:24:51] We also have virtually with us

[1:24:54] rob cook who will be testifying

[1:24:54] last.

[1:25:08] Good.

[1:25:09] What is now okay.

[1:25:11] No we're still good morning at

[1:25:13] 1125 okay good morning

[1:25:13] everyone.

[1:25:14] Thank you for.

[1:25:14] >> being.

[1:25:14] With us.

[1:25:16] Uh we are going to start this

[1:25:17] panel.

[1:25:18] Um and this is a panel

[1:25:20] of advocates uh we are going to

[1:25:20] start with kevin.

[1:25:22] Kevin, you have the floor and

[1:25:24] then you can hot potato pass it

[1:25:25] to the next person.

[1:25:27] Uh.

[1:25:29] ,thank you, MADAM Chair.

[1:25:32] Uh, thank you,

[1:25:33] COUNCILMAN Santana for

[1:25:33] sponsoring this.

[1:25:35] And, uh, thank you,

[1:25:36] council PRESIDENT Breadon.

[1:25:37] My name is kevin brown.

[1:25:38] I'm the.

[1:25:39] Director of 32 bjc.

[1:25:42] I use new england district and

[1:25:42] we represent.

[1:25:44] 22,000 service workers here in

[1:25:47] the new england area and 8500

[1:25:48] essential workers that work

[1:25:50] here in the city of boston,

[1:25:52] including more than 1800

[1:25:54] officers who work within the

[1:25:54] city.

[1:25:56] Confines who carry out this

[1:25:58] difficult work of keeping

[1:25:59] bostonians safe and secure

[1:26:00] every single day.

[1:26:03] We strongly support this

[1:26:04] ordinance, which would require

[1:26:06] security companies to pay for

[1:26:07] in-person training for all

[1:26:10] unarmed security officers, 40

[1:26:12] hours for new hires and eight

[1:26:14] hours every year thereafter.

[1:26:16] The city would certify the

[1:26:17] training programs as you've

[1:26:19] heard and ensure that they are

[1:26:19] qualified.

[1:26:22] Currently there is no legal

[1:26:23] requirement for unarmed

[1:26:25] security officers for training

[1:26:27] here in boston or in the

[1:26:27] commonwealth.

[1:26:31] In contrast, most states

[1:26:33] nationwide now mandate training

[1:26:34] for unarmed officers.

[1:26:36] This should be a concern for

[1:26:37] all of us.

[1:26:39] Boston is a global hub for

[1:26:42] higher education, life sciences

[1:26:43] and health care.

[1:26:45] These industries, which are

[1:26:47] driving job growth in the city,

[1:26:49] contract heavily from security

[1:26:52] firms and depend on over 9000

[1:26:54] officers as you have heard to

[1:26:55] keep these buildings and

[1:26:56] facilities safe.

[1:26:59] This is grueling work standing

[1:27:02] up hour after hour, day after

[1:27:04] day, paying attention and being

[1:27:06] eyes and ears is grueling work.

[1:27:08] We've heard about hatchet

[1:27:11] fights, machete wielding

[1:27:14] trespassers, overdoses and

[1:27:16] of course lost children and

[1:27:18] security officers a workforce

[1:27:20] primarily made up of people

[1:27:22] of color with 61% identifying

[1:27:24] as black are themselves

[1:27:25] frequently in harm's way.

[1:27:28] In DECEMBER of last year, a

[1:27:30] security officer at boston

[1:27:31] medical center was left in

[1:27:33] critical condition after being

[1:27:35] stabbed by a hospital visitor.

[1:27:37] These types of incidents

[1:27:39] contribute to the high rate

[1:27:40] of turnover we see in the

[1:27:40] industry.

[1:27:42] That means that emergencies

[1:27:44] must frequently be handled by

[1:27:45] newly hired officers who

[1:27:46] haven't been comprehensively

[1:27:50] trained or trained at all,

[1:27:50] despite what the.

[1:27:52] Contractors MAY tell you.

[1:27:55] The best way to combat turnover

[1:27:56] is of course by increasing

[1:27:58] compensation including

[1:28:00] providing quality affordable

[1:28:02] health care and in the meantime

[1:28:04] a robust training standard is a

[1:28:06] good starting point for

[1:28:07] professionalizing boston's

[1:28:08] security workforce.

[1:28:11] This legislation will empower

[1:28:13] security officers to.

[1:28:14] Better protect themselves and

[1:28:16] the public by giving them real

[1:28:17] world skills that they need

[1:28:19] perform their duties including

[1:28:20] life saving first aid

[1:28:23] techniques and conflicts on

[1:28:23] de-escalation.

[1:28:25] It is time that boston joined

[1:28:27] the list of localities that

[1:28:28] have common sense training

[1:28:29] requirements.

[1:28:30] Thank you.

[1:28:32] >> I also want to speak to the

[1:28:33] question that was raised about

[1:28:34] why now?

[1:28:37] Um we intend we are in

[1:28:38] collective bargaining, uh, with

[1:28:39] the security contractors

[1:28:40] of boston at the moment.

[1:28:42] Uh, that contract actually

[1:28:45] expired uh, JULY 31st and we

[1:28:46] intend on tuesday at our next

[1:28:48] bargaining to present to them a

[1:28:50] training program that we have.

[1:28:51] At 32.

[1:28:54] Bjj for tens of thousands

[1:28:55] of officers in the new york and

[1:28:57] new jersey area, uh, which is

[1:28:58] already in place in both new

[1:29:00] york and new jersey have

[1:29:01] requirements for training but

[1:29:02] we don't have that here.

[1:29:05] So the cost of that is $312 a

[1:29:06] month per officer.

[1:29:07] So if a company.

[1:29:09] You know employs 100 people

[1:29:10] that's you know not a lot

[1:29:12] of money so $30,000.

[1:29:14] So uh we think that that's you

[1:29:15] know there's no.

[1:29:17] You can't put a price on safety

[1:29:17] .

[1:29:19] Um and we believe that it's

[1:29:20] high time.

[1:29:21] That we take care.

[1:29:23] Of this and fix this, um, in

[1:29:24] the future.

[1:29:26] And I also want to respond to

[1:29:26] the.

[1:29:26] >> fact.

[1:29:28] That, um, you know, we do have

[1:29:30] too many colleges in the area

[1:29:31] which already have can provide

[1:29:33] this training and also the 32

[1:29:34] B.J. Uh, thomas sherman

[1:29:35] training fund can provide this

[1:29:36] training as well.

[1:29:37] And we'd like to.

[1:29:37] >> make.

[1:29:40] Sure that our members um, those

[1:29:40] 3000 people.

[1:29:41] Um.

[1:29:42] >> could use the training fund,

[1:29:45] uh, and then employers pay for

[1:29:45] it.

[1:29:46] Thank you.

[1:29:48] And now we want to hear from,

[1:29:49] um, our security officers.

[1:29:50] i think we're going to.

[1:29:52] Begin with stanley king.

[1:29:53] Kevin.

[1:29:54] >> um.

[1:29:55] >> thank you.

[1:29:55] Um.

[1:29:56] Good afternoon.

[1:29:57] Um.

[1:29:58] Chair, vice chair.

[1:30:00] And members of the committee

[1:30:01] of government operations.

[1:30:03] My name is stanley watching.

[1:30:03] Third.

[1:30:05] >> I am a security.

[1:30:06] Officer and a member.

[1:30:07] >> of 32 pg.

[1:30:09] And I'm here today in support.

[1:30:10] >> of this ordinance.

[1:30:11] Requiring training.

[1:30:13] For private security officers

[1:30:13] in boston.

[1:30:15] I want to start with a simple.

[1:30:17] Question how can we.

[1:30:19] Expect security officers to.

[1:30:19] Protect the.

[1:30:21] >> public if we're not.

[1:30:22] Given the tools.

[1:30:23] And training.

[1:30:24] >> to protect ourselves?

[1:30:27] When I first started working at

[1:30:28] boston public library I

[1:30:32] received no training and oh and

[1:30:34] it but from day one.

[1:30:36] I was expected to handle

[1:30:38] difficult situations involving

[1:30:40] mental health crisis,

[1:30:41] homelessness, disruptive

[1:30:44] behavior and confrontation with

[1:30:44] patrons.

[1:30:47] I was expected to respond

[1:30:48] professionally and keep

[1:30:49] everybody safe, but no one had

[1:30:51] prepared me for these moments.

[1:30:53] I wanted to do the right thing

[1:30:54] but I often do not know the

[1:30:56] safest or most effective way to

[1:30:56] respond.

[1:30:58] That's not fair to security

[1:30:59] officers and it's not fair to

[1:31:00] the public.

[1:31:02] later when I transfer to

[1:31:05] faneuil hall I only received

[1:31:06] maybe a few hours of training

[1:31:08] before being put on the job.

[1:31:11] Then one day a fight broke out

[1:31:12] between a coworker and a

[1:31:12] patron.

[1:31:16] Only after that incident did

[1:31:17] some additional training begin

[1:31:17] .

[1:31:19] Training should not come after

[1:31:20] someone gets hurt.

[1:31:22] It should come before anyone

[1:31:24] gets hurt so hopefully it never

[1:31:25] happens.

[1:31:28] Boston depends on thousands

[1:31:29] of security officers every

[1:31:30] single day.

[1:31:33] We protect hospitals, libraries

[1:31:36] ,office buildings, hotels,

[1:31:39] schools, laboratories and

[1:31:40] historical landmarks for

[1:31:42] example like friend or hall we

[1:31:43] are often the first people to

[1:31:45] respond before police,

[1:31:47] firefighters or ems arrives

[1:31:49] that responsibility and

[1:31:50] deserves professional employer

[1:31:51] pay training.

[1:31:53] The ordinance will establish a

[1:31:54] citywide training center that

[1:31:57] includes de-escalation, cpr and

[1:31:59] first aid, emergency response,

[1:32:00] mental health awareness report

[1:32:02] writing and skills we need to

[1:32:03] keep ourselves in the public

[1:32:04] safe.

[1:32:07] It raises a standard not only

[1:32:09] for workers but for every

[1:32:10] person that walks through the

[1:32:11] doors of the buildings that we

[1:32:12] protect.

[1:32:14] This isn't just about security

[1:32:15] officers it's about public

[1:32:15] safety.

[1:32:17] It's about making sure workers

[1:32:18] are prepared before a crisis

[1:32:20] happens, not after.

[1:32:23] So today we're calling on the

[1:32:24] boston city council to stand

[1:32:27] with workers who demand and

[1:32:28] stand up for the city every

[1:32:29] single day.

[1:32:31] Let's invest in protection

[1:32:32] instead of reaction less,

[1:32:34] invest in training instead

[1:32:34] of tragedy.

[1:32:37] And let's show boston that

[1:32:38] security officers deserve their

[1:32:41] respect, professionalism and

[1:32:42] support that comes with

[1:32:43] protecting our communities.

[1:32:45] Thank you for your time and

[1:32:46] I'll pass it to my fellow

[1:32:46] colleague.

[1:32:47] Thank you.

[1:32:50] Thank you thank you stanley.

[1:32:52] Um, while there is no clapping

[1:32:54] in chambers I appreciate your

[1:32:55] share your testimony the chair

[1:32:56] recognizes.

[1:32:57] Is it tanya?

[1:32:58] Are you tanya?

[1:32:59] Tanya, you have the floor.

[1:33:00] Okay.

[1:33:01] >> so hello everyone.

[1:33:03] My name is tanya paul brown.

[1:33:05] Um, I've been working at the

[1:33:07] library, uh, for six years now.

[1:33:10] Um, and a proud member of 32 pj

[1:33:10] .

[1:33:15] Uh, I stand along my co um my

[1:33:18] I'm sorry guys, I stand on the

[1:33:20] side my, uh, fellow security

[1:33:24] officers and we're demanding

[1:33:25] better in constant training to

[1:33:27] do our jobs.

[1:33:30] I was intentionally trained on

[1:33:32] line as well as at the library

[1:33:36] on some of more basic

[1:33:38] principles of security making

[1:33:41] rounds, being vigilant.

[1:33:45] But I'll be the first to tell

[1:33:46] you after six years is not

[1:33:47] enough.

[1:33:51] Uh, at my job I have dealt with

[1:33:53] overdose.

[1:33:55] Um, needles.

[1:33:55] Unattended needles.

[1:33:56] Uh.

[1:34:00] >> incidents where there's

[1:34:01] fight.

[1:34:01] Uh, the hatchet fight.

[1:34:06] Um, overdose in bathroom

[1:34:07] overdose outside.

[1:34:08] We have to continuously to call

[1:34:11] the police all the time and not

[1:34:13] every time the police is there

[1:34:14] like right away.

[1:34:16] Um, sometimes it's the

[1:34:18] firefighters and they come

[1:34:20] quicker than the police.

[1:34:23] But, um, just like we have to

[1:34:25] explain to a lot of patrons

[1:34:26] that, um, you know, we do our

[1:34:29] best as we try to make them

[1:34:30] safe and keep ourselves safe.

[1:34:33] Um, it's pretty hard.

[1:34:34] Uh.

[1:34:39] >> uh.

[1:34:42] >> the analyzing the training

[1:34:44] across boston means that the

[1:34:46] security officers are all

[1:34:48] allowed the same protocol

[1:34:50] working more ethically with law

[1:34:52] enforcement when we need to

[1:34:56] when to keep the public safer.

[1:35:03] And as we as we expect the city

[1:35:05] of boston stand with security

[1:35:07] officers and support the

[1:35:07] ordinance.

[1:35:09] Thank you, thank you, thank you

[1:35:09] .

[1:35:10] Tanya, you did a.

[1:35:11] >> you did a great job.

[1:35:11] Thank thank you.

[1:35:12] >> for your testimony.

[1:35:15] Um is next is it jeff.

[1:35:17] Franchetti and.

[1:35:18] You can.

[1:35:19] >> just come up and share one

[1:35:20] of the mics if.

[1:35:23] >> you'd like I can with you

[1:35:23] or.

[1:35:24] >> you can just bring up your

[1:35:25] chair as well and they.

[1:35:26] >> could just make for the.

[1:35:26] >> little people to.

[1:35:29] Steer you.

[1:35:29] >> yeah.

[1:35:30] go ahead.

[1:35:30] Um.

[1:35:33] >> good afternoon.

[1:35:35] Vice chair members of the

[1:35:36] government operations.

[1:35:38] Committee and the city council.

[1:35:39] My name is jeffrey franchetti

[1:35:41] and I'm a student at

[1:35:41] northeastern.

[1:35:44] I'm here today in support

[1:35:45] of this ordinance requiring

[1:35:46] training for private security

[1:35:47] officers in boston.

[1:35:50] And I is all other students

[1:35:51] of northeastern benefit from

[1:35:52] the workers at our school every

[1:35:54] day, whether it's our

[1:35:55] classrooms being ready to learn

[1:35:57] in every day because of our

[1:35:59] custodians or dorms and labs

[1:36:01] being safe to live and work in

[1:36:02] because of our facilities

[1:36:04] workers the people however, who

[1:36:05] allow us to pursue our

[1:36:07] education day or night are our

[1:36:08] security guards.

[1:36:10] The dorms we sleep in are

[1:36:11] protected by them.

[1:36:12] The labs and classrooms we

[1:36:13] learn in are protected by them

[1:36:14] as well.

[1:36:16] And the campus at night whether

[1:36:17] it's we're studying or cramming

[1:36:19] for tests is only accessible

[1:36:20] because of them being there.

[1:36:22] That's particularly important

[1:36:23] to me.

[1:36:24] My student organization meets

[1:36:26] in a building that is open in

[1:36:27] the late hours a night only

[1:36:28] because security is always up

[1:36:29] there.

[1:36:31] Many of us are living away from

[1:36:33] home for the first time, and

[1:36:34] it's reassuring to know that

[1:36:35] security guards always have our

[1:36:36] back.

[1:36:37] They are the first people we

[1:36:39] turn to if we need help.

[1:36:41] We all assume they have basic

[1:36:42] training and know what

[1:36:43] protocols to follow in

[1:36:44] different kinds of emergencies.

[1:36:46] It's surprising to hear that

[1:36:46] that's.

[1:36:47] >> not required by.

[1:36:49] Law, especially at institutions

[1:36:50] where there are additional

[1:36:53] security concerns like at

[1:36:54] hospitals or universities like

[1:36:54] mine.

[1:36:57] And I think this ordinance

[1:36:59] would change that and guarantee

[1:37:00] that these things are

[1:37:02] considered these workers are

[1:37:04] inseparable from me and all

[1:37:05] of my fellow students being

[1:37:06] able to get our education.

[1:37:08] It's important to me that they

[1:37:10] have good jobs, stable income

[1:37:11] and the training to keep

[1:37:13] themselves and us safe and

[1:37:15] that's why I'm here today in

[1:37:16] support of this bill as well as

[1:37:17] a few other students.

[1:37:17] Thank you.

[1:37:18] Thank you.

[1:37:20] >> um.

[1:37:20] .

[1:37:20] I.

[1:37:21] Finally remember my security

[1:37:23] guards at college and they

[1:37:24] really did.

[1:37:26] So thank you for bringing that

[1:37:27] element of being a student.

[1:37:27] I think.

[1:37:27] >> that's.

[1:37:28] Really, really important.

[1:37:31] Um, next we're moving on to sam

[1:37:32] rodriguez.

[1:37:33] Is it rodriguez or rodriguez?

[1:37:34] Rodriguez.

[1:37:35] >> rodriguez okay.

[1:37:36] >> sam rodriguez, you have the

[1:37:37] floor.

[1:37:38] I thank you very much.

[1:37:39] Good morning.

[1:37:40] My name is.

[1:37:41] Samuel gomez.

[1:37:42] Rodriguez junior.

[1:37:44] i've worked in the security.

[1:37:45] Industry for six years.

[1:37:47] I have been.

[1:37:48] Working at northeastern.

[1:37:50] University as a northeast

[1:37:51] security guard for the past

[1:37:52] four years.

[1:37:57] 45 hours a week I patrol the

[1:37:58] premises.

[1:37:58] And help.

[1:38:00] Visitors and respond to.

[1:38:02] Incidents and make sure

[1:38:04] everyone in my building is safe

[1:38:04] .

[1:38:06] Security officers are expected

[1:38:07] to handle all types of.

[1:38:08] Situations.

[1:38:10] >> but many of us receive very

[1:38:11] little training before being

[1:38:13] thrown out into the field.

[1:38:16] When I was hired I was

[1:38:18] fortunate because I had prior

[1:38:18] experience.

[1:38:20] However, a majority of my

[1:38:22] fellow officers do not.

[1:38:25] Turnovers are extremely high in

[1:38:27] this industry because of the

[1:38:29] wages and the benefits to not

[1:38:31] keep up with the cost of living

[1:38:32] here in the greater boston

[1:38:33] area.

[1:38:35] I am thankful to have a job.

[1:38:38] However it can be better.

[1:38:42] We want affordable healthcare,

[1:38:44] livable wages and we want

[1:38:46] proper training so we can keep

[1:38:48] ourselves and the public safe.

[1:38:51] At my work site.

[1:38:53] Incidents always occur.

[1:38:56] Security officers always their

[1:38:58] first people look at us for

[1:38:58] hope.

[1:39:00] They have faith that we know

[1:39:01] what to do.

[1:39:03] But the training we have

[1:39:05] received over the past years

[1:39:06] have mostly involved those

[1:39:08] watching videos on the computer

[1:39:08] .

[1:39:11] It is barely the bare minimum.

[1:39:14] a couple of years ago we

[1:39:16] completed cpr training

[1:39:17] virtually.

[1:39:19] There was no practice dummies

[1:39:21] no real way for us to actually

[1:39:23] practice for this situation.

[1:39:26] Watching a video is not the

[1:39:28] same as knowing what to do in

[1:39:29] this critical moment.

[1:39:32] This ordinance will change that

[1:39:32] .

[1:39:36] This ordinance would change

[1:39:36] that.

[1:39:38] It would mean in-person

[1:39:39] training on topics that

[1:39:41] actually prepare us for the

[1:39:42] reality of the work.

[1:39:44] Security officers are expected

[1:39:44] to perform.

[1:39:48] This would mean employers not

[1:39:49] the workers would pay for the

[1:39:50] training.

[1:39:52] Most of us already struggle

[1:39:53] with paying for the basic human

[1:39:54] right of healthcare.

[1:39:57] We cannot afford to pay for our

[1:39:59] own training as someone who

[1:40:00] does this work every day.

[1:40:03] I can tell you that security

[1:40:04] officers want to be prepared.

[1:40:06] We want to do the right thing

[1:40:08] for everyone especially in

[1:40:09] emergencies.

[1:40:11] Passing this law would help us

[1:40:12] do that.

[1:40:14] Thank you for your time.

[1:40:18] And thank you so much sam for

[1:40:19] your testimony and thank you to

[1:40:20] this panel.

[1:40:22] We will now move on to

[1:40:23] questions from my colleagues.

[1:40:25] Um, there was an additional

[1:40:26] person that I thought was on

[1:40:27] the panel, but they're going to

[1:40:28] be actually for public

[1:40:28] testimony.

[1:40:30] Um, I'm going to start with uh,

[1:40:32] the lead sponsor and I will

[1:40:33] give all of my colleagues now

[1:40:34] five minutes to ask any

[1:40:35] questions of this panel.

[1:40:38] Uh, councilor santana, you have

[1:40:39] the floor and five minutes.

[1:40:40] Thank you.

[1:40:42] Thank you, MADAM Chair.

[1:40:44] And thank you, um.

[1:40:46] >> to this, uh, panel for being

[1:40:47] here and being present and

[1:40:49] sharing your, um, uh,

[1:40:50] particularly to to our workers

[1:40:51] .

[1:40:52] Sharing your experiences.

[1:40:54] I know some of you already

[1:40:55] touched it in your opening

[1:40:57] remarks, but, um, you know, can

[1:40:58] you walk me through the

[1:40:58] training.

[1:40:59] >> you received.

[1:41:00] >> when you first hired as a

[1:41:01] security guard?

[1:41:03] What did that training involve

[1:41:04] and how long did it last?

[1:41:06] Any of you can answer.

[1:41:09] I'll start off, um, when I was

[1:41:10] at the boston public library

[1:41:10] for.

[1:41:10] Example.

[1:41:12] >> uh, they had somebody sit

[1:41:13] with me in the tech.

[1:41:14] Center for.

[1:41:15] >> like maybe.

[1:41:16] The day.

[1:41:17] >> just looking at people.

[1:41:18] Then the next day I was by

[1:41:19] myself.

[1:41:20] So that was.

[1:41:21] >> based on a minimum of a

[1:41:21] training.

[1:41:27] I got hired, um, I got hired,

[1:41:31] uh, covid, um, and it was g g

[1:41:32] for us at the time.

[1:41:35] So we didn't get trained at

[1:41:35] all.

[1:41:36] It was just sitting in a

[1:41:37] building watching the door and

[1:41:38] making sure it was closed.

[1:41:40] There was no training at all.

[1:41:44] For me specifically.

[1:41:45] >> on my site.

[1:41:47] I remember my first day it was

[1:41:47] literally.

[1:41:48] >> that point out of the boot.

[1:41:49] So sit in there.

[1:41:52] Uh well technically they didn't

[1:41:52] allow.

[1:41:54] Us really to sit and prefer us

[1:41:56] to walk outside of boot but uh,

[1:41:58] essentially stand around the.

[1:41:59] Boot and that was my

[1:41:59] introduction.

[1:42:00] This is your site you show.

[1:42:01] Up at this time.

[1:42:02] You stand there.

[1:42:06] Then once every while we would

[1:42:06] have like.

[1:42:07] >> I said, uh, just.

[1:42:10] Online classes basically

[1:42:11] teaching.

[1:42:12] Bout of.

[1:42:15] Cpr for example.

[1:42:17] Uh we would have regular

[1:42:19] meetings I would say probably

[1:42:21] once every year essentially uh

[1:42:23] they would mask it as training

[1:42:25] but in reality just from

[1:42:26] observation it was more of a

[1:42:28] way to make sure that the

[1:42:29] company didn't get sued.

[1:42:31] So instead of teaching us

[1:42:32] de-escalation they would just

[1:42:35] tells flat out oh if let's say

[1:42:35] someone's being attacked you

[1:42:37] are not to touch them.

[1:42:39] The most you can do is call uh

[1:42:39] campus police.

[1:42:41] There was really no training no

[1:42:42] .

[1:42:43] Training on how to protect

[1:42:45] ourselves properly without

[1:42:46] violating any laws, how.

[1:42:47] >> to protect.

[1:42:48] The public without violating

[1:42:49] any laws.

[1:42:52] For the most part it was here

[1:42:54] this we workshop on time.

[1:42:55] We expect you to do your.

[1:42:56] Job and also.

[1:42:57] Don't get.

[1:42:58] >> us sued.

[1:42:59] For the most part.

[1:43:00] no, I appreciate that.

[1:43:02] Um and I think I.

[1:43:03] >> really resonated with with

[1:43:04] your answer.

[1:43:05] Uh, you know, I mentioned

[1:43:07] earlier that, um, I was working

[1:43:09] security a few years ago, um,

[1:43:10] overnight and my training

[1:43:13] encompassed just my supervisor,

[1:43:14] uh, sitting with me the first

[1:43:16] two evenings or the first two

[1:43:17] nights that I worked.

[1:43:19] Um, and you know, whatever came

[1:43:20] up during that those two

[1:43:22] evenings is what he showed me.

[1:43:23] Um, but then I was left alone

[1:43:24] after that.

[1:43:25] Um, and obviously different

[1:43:26] encounters happened.

[1:43:28] Um, different days, different

[1:43:28] weeks.

[1:43:32] Um, so, uh no, I really

[1:43:32] appreciate that.

[1:43:34] And then in terms of you know,

[1:43:34] so that you talked.

[1:43:37] To you pointed out some of the

[1:43:39] um, training you received can

[1:43:41] you all share some of the

[1:43:42] challenges day to day

[1:43:43] challenges that you see?

[1:43:45] Um, I know you mentioned um you

[1:43:47] know, you know, needles and um

[1:43:48] and those type of stuff.

[1:43:50] Are there any other challenges

[1:43:51] that you see that you were

[1:43:52] maybe not prepared for.

[1:43:56] Peop people being um, passed

[1:43:58] out in the bathroom sometimes

[1:43:59] locking themselves in the

[1:44:03] bathroom sometimes um being

[1:44:05] completely nude in the bathroom

[1:44:05] .

[1:44:07] Um or they're fighting in the

[1:44:08] bathroom.

[1:44:10] And what are you supposed to do

[1:44:11] in those situations?

[1:44:14] Uh, we are supposed to stand

[1:44:17] down by, um, my fellow security

[1:44:19] officer said, um, make sure

[1:44:21] that we don't step in and just

[1:44:22] call the police.

[1:44:23] And most of the time, like I

[1:44:25] said before, the police take

[1:44:28] their time to come and so we

[1:44:29] just have to stand by and lock

[1:44:30] down the bathroom.

[1:44:31] All right.

[1:44:32] >> anyone else want to check?

[1:44:33] Oh, sure.

[1:44:35] >> so, um, for example.

[1:44:35] >> I.

[1:44:36] Know apparently at the funeral

[1:44:38] hall there's a situation where

[1:44:40] I had a seizure and we I wasn't

[1:44:42] trained cpr at that.

[1:44:43] Time so I didn't know what to

[1:44:43] do.

[1:44:44] >> in this situation.

[1:44:46] So I had to call my colleagues

[1:44:46] who.

[1:44:47] Some of them had minimum

[1:44:48] training maybe.

[1:44:49] Like maybe an hour or two

[1:44:51] of cpr and they were able to.

[1:44:52] Go through.

[1:44:52] >> with.

[1:44:55] That so well um no thank you.

[1:44:56] I know my time is about to come

[1:44:57] up but I do want to thank um

[1:44:59] the whole the entire panel that

[1:44:59] I've met.

[1:45:00] I appreciate the student

[1:45:01] perspective of someone who's

[1:45:02] not security guard above the

[1:45:03] civil services.

[1:45:05] Um, and I also lived on a

[1:45:07] campus, um, once upon a time,

[1:45:09] so I did feel secure.

[1:45:11] Um, I don't know a lot.

[1:45:14] Um, but I do I really

[1:45:15] appreciate the workers being

[1:45:16] here and appreciate the work

[1:45:17] that you do.

[1:45:19] Um, to keep our city, um, safe

[1:45:19] .

[1:45:21] Um, and this was.

[1:45:23] Uh this ordinance was, uh,

[1:45:25] created, um, with you all in

[1:45:26] mind.

[1:45:28] Uh, making sure that you are

[1:45:29] equipped with the proper

[1:45:29] training.

[1:45:30] Um, whether you are first and

[1:45:31] foremost safe.

[1:45:33] Um, but then also the public

[1:45:34] that you're serving are also

[1:45:34] safe.

[1:45:36] So I really appreciate the

[1:45:37] courage, um, that it takes, um,

[1:45:38] to be here to be public

[1:45:39] speaking, um, in front of the

[1:45:40] city council.

[1:45:41] Um, really appreciate that.

[1:45:42] Thank you very much.

[1:45:45] Thank you.

[1:45:46] >> thank you.

[1:45:48] >> um, the chair recognizes.

[1:45:50] Councilor murphy.

[1:45:50] Councilor flynn.

[1:45:51] Um.

[1:45:53] >> council PRESIDENT Lose

[1:45:54] breadon.

[1:45:56] You have the floor and five

[1:45:56] minutes.

[1:45:57] Thank you.

[1:45:58] And thank you all for your

[1:45:59] testimony.

[1:46:01] I really appreciate, um, what

[1:46:02] you said because it gives us

[1:46:03] some insight.

[1:46:04] Into the day to day challenges

[1:46:05] of your.

[1:46:06] Work and how.

[1:46:08] Difficult it is to feel that

[1:46:09] you're, um, haven't had

[1:46:10] adequate training to meet

[1:46:12] whatever comes as I mentioned

[1:46:14] in my remarks earlier, I think

[1:46:16] you know, you can't anticipate

[1:46:18] what you might meet and what

[1:46:19] comes at you in a day's work.

[1:46:22] Um, as an unarmed security

[1:46:22] officer.

[1:46:25] So, uh, I appreciate all the

[1:46:26] great work you do and um.

[1:46:27] Um.

[1:46:32] >> in terms of in terms of uh

[1:46:34] if you're in an incident and

[1:46:35] and you feel that.

[1:46:35] You.

[1:46:37] >> uh, needed more training.

[1:46:39] Who do you go to?

[1:46:41] Do you go to a supervisor or do

[1:46:43] you can you advocate for say

[1:46:44] you know, I really need to have

[1:46:45] a cpr training or I need to do

[1:46:46] for.

[1:46:47] Can you I need first aid

[1:46:50] training or is it a mechanism.

[1:46:52] For actually requesting more

[1:46:53] training on your job?

[1:46:55] So I guess.

[1:46:57] I'm sorry.

[1:46:57] >> go ahead.

[1:46:58] Yes, yes.

[1:46:58] Uh.

[1:47:00] Specifically on my site.

[1:47:02] And I can't speak for everyone

[1:47:02] .

[1:47:03] >> else but I know, uh.

[1:47:05] Northeastern university for

[1:47:07] northeast security we're given

[1:47:08] very little information on how

[1:47:08] to go.

[1:47:09] >> about any of this.

[1:47:11] >> for the most part I see a

[1:47:13] lot of guards confused of who

[1:47:15] to speak to if there even is

[1:47:16] anyone to speak to for any

[1:47:17] of these things.

[1:47:19] For the most part a lot

[1:47:21] of guards unfortunately because

[1:47:23] of this they feel very

[1:47:24] discarded and being down.

[1:47:25] So there's.

[1:47:26] >> a sense of apathy.

[1:47:27] It's come to a certain point

[1:47:30] where most people feel as if it

[1:47:32] is what it is to be very

[1:47:32] honest.

[1:47:35] Do you have a do you have a

[1:47:36] line of command like who's your

[1:47:37] supervisor?

[1:47:38] Do you and check in?

[1:47:41] Do they check in with you on a

[1:47:42] regular basis on how things are

[1:47:42] going?

[1:47:44] For the most part all the time

[1:47:46] supervisors really show up for

[1:47:48] my experiences and experiences.

[1:47:50] my coworkers are either for uh

[1:47:53] shift changes or disciplinary

[1:47:53] reasons.

[1:47:54] Okay.

[1:47:56] >> and in terms of um, your

[1:47:58] work experience so far like

[1:48:00] this for any of you um, in

[1:48:03] terms of what sort of scenario

[1:48:04] is the most challenging for

[1:48:05] you?

[1:48:07] Like I think you mentioned.

[1:48:10] Uh, front for me personally,

[1:48:13] um, having to patrol outside

[1:48:16] and there are two um homeless

[1:48:18] people outside putting needles

[1:48:18] in each.

[1:48:21] Other um, very dangerous

[1:48:22] because they are kept going

[1:48:23] back and forth.

[1:48:26] Um, honestly, I've been at my

[1:48:29] side for six years so I'm going

[1:48:30] to be truthful.

[1:48:33] Um, I trained the supervisor at

[1:48:35] both of the supervisors and my

[1:48:38] manager so at my say we just

[1:48:40] wing it at this point because I

[1:48:41] mean no one knows what they're

[1:48:41] doing.

[1:48:45] Um oh turkeys, repeat the

[1:48:46] question one more time.

[1:48:46] And the.

[1:48:47] >> most.

[1:48:48] Challenging situation you've

[1:48:50] had to deal with so far like I

[1:48:51] know you can deal with all

[1:48:53] sorts of scenarios but what

[1:48:54] what's the one that you feel

[1:48:55] you really didn't feel?

[1:48:57] Oh goodness, I'm not equipped

[1:48:57] for this.

[1:49:00] I'll use a recent example not

[1:49:01] not just from my from my site.

[1:49:02] There's a couple colleagues

[1:49:04] of mine that had to deal with

[1:49:05] uh, protests.

[1:49:05] And it was.

[1:49:06] Hundreds of people at the

[1:49:08] protest and maybe as a

[1:49:09] supervisor and two guards.

[1:49:12] So that situation and they

[1:49:13] could try to call someone

[1:49:14] of like a certain account

[1:49:15] manager or account manager and

[1:49:16] they were nowhere to be found

[1:49:18] or able to respond whatsoever.

[1:49:19] So that was probably the most

[1:49:20] difficult I would say for

[1:49:21] me and my other colleagues.

[1:49:23] And because you haven't had any

[1:49:25] training have no contact, no no

[1:49:27] no skill set as to how to

[1:49:28] respond to a situation like

[1:49:28] that.

[1:49:29] That's correct.

[1:49:31] Yes.

[1:49:33] >> if I MAY also I too often

[1:49:35] times and once again I can't

[1:49:37] speak for my fellow workers

[1:49:39] here but I know on my site a

[1:49:40] lot of times they will try.

[1:49:42] >> to lean on uh.

[1:49:44] The campus police but to be

[1:49:46] very honest and just like you

[1:49:48] said, the police often aren't

[1:49:49] the most responsive.

[1:49:50] I've had.

[1:49:52] Few instances.

[1:49:54] Uh, first time I began working

[1:49:56] there I had someone stuck in

[1:49:58] the elevator for about 30

[1:49:58] minutes.

[1:50:00] I really didn't have any help

[1:50:00] out there.

[1:50:02] There was no supervisors.

[1:50:03] No coworkers.

[1:50:06] Somehow I was able to get the.

[1:50:07] Elevator working.

[1:50:08] Again.

[1:50:09] >> got the person out.

[1:50:12] It took about 30 minutes for

[1:50:14] the police to show up after I

[1:50:15] called them.

[1:50:17] It takes about 15 minutes to

[1:50:18] walk there.

[1:50:20] They use their suvs.

[1:50:21] I've seen them on multiple

[1:50:22] occasions run through red

[1:50:23] lights but for some reason

[1:50:25] during emergencies nowhere to

[1:50:27] be found and once they finally

[1:50:29] showed up and I told them the

[1:50:31] situation was handled it was

[1:50:32] not uh sorry for being late or

[1:50:33] is everyone okay?

[1:50:34] It was literally word for word.

[1:50:37] Uh, next time call us because

[1:50:39] it takes us a while to get here

[1:50:40] and that was the end of the

[1:50:41] conversation.

[1:50:41] Okay.

[1:50:44] >> um thank you for your

[1:50:45] examples.

[1:50:47] I think it gives us some flavor

[1:50:50] of what so in terms of uh, B.J.

[1:50:53] Um 32 bj you you have a

[1:50:54] training program.

[1:50:55] Could you tell us a little more

[1:50:56] about that?

[1:50:57] Oh, sorry, MADAM Chair, can.

[1:50:58] >> you.

[1:50:58] Answer.

[1:50:58] The question?

[1:50:58] Yes.

[1:51:03] >> um, yes.

[1:51:04] The time servant training fund

[1:51:06] ,uh, is a labor management

[1:51:07] training fund, uh, established

[1:51:08] between the employers and the

[1:51:09] union.

[1:51:12] Um, both the security employers

[1:51:13] and, uh, the unions sit

[1:51:15] together to establish it and

[1:51:16] it's been in existence for.

[1:51:18] Um about 50 years.

[1:51:21] Uh, and we train thousands

[1:51:23] of officers in new york and uh,

[1:51:23] jersey.

[1:51:26] Um, and we have you know, we

[1:51:28] training people now in boston

[1:51:30] but not for security because

[1:51:31] the employers don't pay for it

[1:51:31] .

[1:51:35] Um, so uh, you know, all those

[1:51:37] all of these classes and first

[1:51:42] responder cpr um uh um, you

[1:51:44] know how to deal with people

[1:51:45] and overdose all of those

[1:51:47] things is what the the, uh.

[1:51:49] But the program can do the

[1:51:51] initial 40 hour training as

[1:51:52] well as the research every

[1:51:53] eight hours and it's a huge

[1:51:55] program in new york city and

[1:51:56] thousands of officers run.

[1:51:56] >> through it.

[1:51:58] >> we have uh, 20,000 officers

[1:52:00] in new york city who go through

[1:52:02] the program every year, uh, and

[1:52:03] get those those research.

[1:52:04] Thank you.

[1:52:06] >> thank you, MADAM Chair.

[1:52:07] Thank you.

[1:52:08] Uh, council PRESIDENT Bratton,

[1:52:10] uh, the chair now recognizes

[1:52:12] councilor for gerald

[1:52:13] COUNCILMAN Gerald, you have the

[1:52:14] floor and five minutes.

[1:52:15] Thank you, MADAM Chair.

[1:52:18] Um, uh, I'll say again as

[1:52:19] always, uh, support uh, workers

[1:52:21] right to unionize and I think

[1:52:22] standards are a good thing to

[1:52:23] measure and uphold

[1:52:23] accountability.

[1:52:25] So always in favor of that.

[1:52:26] And thank you guys for bringing

[1:52:27] this issue to the table.

[1:52:28] Um.

[1:52:31] >> a question around the uh,

[1:52:33] you know, the contract that was

[1:52:35] previously had with security

[1:52:38] guards through the union um,

[1:52:40] and what it says in there about

[1:52:42] training and how you guys feel

[1:52:44] that was upheld, what it says

[1:52:45] in there to what we wanted to

[1:52:47] say in the next contract and

[1:52:48] more importantly to me.

[1:52:49] ,the.

[1:52:51] >> limits that you guys have on

[1:52:53] yourselves right to the job you

[1:52:54] have about cannot touch.

[1:52:56] And with the repeal of rule 400

[1:52:58] and things of that nature, what

[1:53:00] is it that we want added into

[1:53:01] the training that can be

[1:53:03] applicable given some of the

[1:53:04] constraints that you guys have

[1:53:05] to like trying to find that

[1:53:06] middle ground of like what are

[1:53:09] we really asking for in this

[1:53:09] training?

[1:53:11] Uh and I've heard you say I

[1:53:12] mean there's cpr and you know

[1:53:14] and uh and uh overdose training

[1:53:15] and things of that nature I

[1:53:16] think it's all necessary

[1:53:17] because what you guys see every

[1:53:19] day um.

[1:53:20] But what are the.

[1:53:22] Confines that might, uh, the

[1:53:23] training that you would want to

[1:53:24] have that you can't is there

[1:53:27] any, uh, physical limitations

[1:53:28] that you guys are expected to.

[1:53:28] >> go.

[1:53:30] Through to be in order to be a

[1:53:30] security guard?

[1:53:32] Um, things of that nature.

[1:53:35] So just I guess in overall my

[1:53:36] only question is from the

[1:53:37] previous contract to the

[1:53:39] current contract what we want

[1:53:41] to see added uh, maybe what

[1:53:42] lacked in the previous one is

[1:53:44] as we go forward in the current

[1:53:46] one and then what given the

[1:53:47] confines around the laws that

[1:53:49] you guys cannot do, do we want

[1:53:50] to see that training go up to

[1:53:51] to make sure we're focused in

[1:53:52] on giving you training that's

[1:53:54] actually applicable to your

[1:53:54] job?

[1:54:00] So to be clear there's nothing

[1:54:01] in the contract now about

[1:54:01] training.

[1:54:03] Um and we are proposing it to

[1:54:05] the security contractors

[1:54:06] of boston um.

[1:54:07] To to.

[1:54:09] You know, to have that $312 a

[1:54:11] year training fund benefit for

[1:54:12] each uh member.

[1:54:16] Uh, but also we're not trying

[1:54:18] to have a panacea, um, that the

[1:54:19] officers are going to, you

[1:54:21] know, be able to be police.

[1:54:23] That's far from the case.

[1:54:25] Uh, and then, you know, the

[1:54:26] police are going to do the

[1:54:27] police job.

[1:54:31] Um, but we are often there most

[1:54:33] often first and whatever can be

[1:54:35] done in the first minutes

[1:54:37] before the officer arrives.

[1:54:38] Um, you know, those are the

[1:54:39] things that we want to.

[1:54:40] >> try to resolve.

[1:54:43] Um, 40 hours training is not a

[1:54:44] panacea but it's a start.

[1:54:47] So my only thought I was just I

[1:54:48] was trying to read through the

[1:54:48] previous contract, understand

[1:54:50] where we're at and where we can

[1:54:50] go.

[1:54:51] Um.

[1:54:52] >> but there's supposed to be

[1:54:53] some committee that was to be

[1:54:53] formed.

[1:54:54] Maybe it's just never formed

[1:54:55] and that's what I want to be.

[1:54:56] That's what I.

[1:54:57] Wanted it said not it.

[1:54:57] Right.

[1:54:58] But the committee shall be

[1:55:00] formed to discuss issues

[1:55:01] regarding training, safety,

[1:55:03] recruitment, retention

[1:55:03] of officers.

[1:55:05] Uh and the committee MAY meet

[1:55:07] by mutual consent not any less

[1:55:09] than once per year and shall be

[1:55:10] made up of three officers from

[1:55:12] the union and up to three

[1:55:13] representatives from the

[1:55:13] employer.

[1:55:14] So that committee has never met

[1:55:14] .

[1:55:15] No.

[1:55:16] >> thank you very much.

[1:55:18] Thank you the.

[1:55:21] Thank you the chair and I

[1:55:22] recognizes councilor culpeper.

[1:55:25] You have the floor and five

[1:55:25] minutes.

[1:55:26] Thank you, MADAM Chair.

[1:55:27] Um.

[1:55:28] >> I wanted to ask the question

[1:55:30] about the training that you do

[1:55:31] in new york.

[1:55:33] How much of that do you do in

[1:55:35] boston or you do none here?

[1:55:35] None.

[1:55:38] >> and what kind of training is

[1:55:40] that in new york and would it

[1:55:42] meet the requirements in the

[1:55:43] ordinance for training?

[1:55:46] Yes it was this was you know,

[1:55:48] sort of modeled after that the

[1:55:50] basic 40 hour initial and then

[1:55:52] eight hours um, recertification

[1:55:53] and really it was modeled.

[1:55:55] Upon what's in new york in new

[1:55:55] jersey.

[1:55:56] What's in new york now?

[1:55:58] Um, and.

[1:56:00] In terms of operationalizing

[1:56:03] it, you heard the discussion

[1:56:04] uh, this morning about some

[1:56:05] of the challenges that they

[1:56:06] would have.

[1:56:09] How long do you think knowing

[1:56:11] what's in the contract would it

[1:56:14] take to actually hire the staff

[1:56:17] ,uh, put a program in place

[1:56:18] and then implement it?

[1:56:20] How far in the future are you

[1:56:22] looking to have this program

[1:56:23] implemented.

[1:56:26] So that the requirements in

[1:56:27] philadelphia initially were a

[1:56:29] very short 30 days but as you

[1:56:31] heard um, in previous testimony

[1:56:33] this would not go into effect

[1:56:34] the requirement to be

[1:56:36] implemented until JULY 2027.

[1:56:38] So it would give, you know,

[1:56:41] whatever 11 months uh, of time

[1:56:41] to.

[1:56:44] Prepare and to get it up and

[1:56:44] running.

[1:56:46] Um, you know, our training

[1:56:47] funds are already in existence.

[1:56:48] We know how to do these

[1:56:49] classes.

[1:56:50] It's the same director and

[1:56:51] assistant director of the

[1:56:53] training fund in new york as it

[1:56:53] is here.

[1:56:55] um, we'd have to have some

[1:56:57] local staff and we often call

[1:57:00] upon, um, retired uh, officers

[1:57:01] ,uh, police officers to assist

[1:57:04] us, um, in the implementation.

[1:57:06] Um, but I do want to stress if

[1:57:08] it's if I MAY also that the

[1:57:09] question earlier was raised

[1:57:11] about why for profit versus non

[1:57:14] profit right right yeah um and

[1:57:14] we you know we.

[1:57:17] There MAY be some cutting

[1:57:19] of corners in a for profit uh

[1:57:21] company versus a nonprofit um

[1:57:22] and whether it's the community

[1:57:24] colleges or the 32 bridge

[1:57:25] training fund or some other

[1:57:27] nonprofit entity max cash I

[1:57:28] know can do training.

[1:57:30] Um, whoever ends up doing the

[1:57:31] training, we think that, you

[1:57:33] know, their incentive would be

[1:57:35] to provide quality training and

[1:57:37] not to make money.

[1:57:40] And so you've been doing the

[1:57:41] training in new york for how

[1:57:41] long?

[1:57:46] Uh, I think since right after

[1:57:50] 911 it was uh 2005 I think.

[1:57:51] Somewhere short.

[1:57:54] >> and do you think that would

[1:57:55] it makes sense for.

[1:57:56] Um.

[1:57:59] >> there to be some kind

[1:58:01] of equivalency or accreditation

[1:58:03] process where the city

[1:58:05] evaluates a curriculum rather

[1:58:09] than the tax status or are you

[1:58:10] stuck on the tax?

[1:58:11] >> I think it's.

[1:58:11] Both I think.

[1:58:13] >> it's both yeah.

[1:58:15] Nonprofit and also for the city

[1:58:16] to evaluate the program and

[1:58:17] make sure it's a quality

[1:58:18] program and.

[1:58:21] You know, because sometimes

[1:58:23] they're they aren't and you

[1:58:24] know, the employers want to do

[1:58:25] the program the you know, do

[1:58:27] training themselves they think

[1:58:28] they have that secret sauce.

[1:58:31] But um, we think that it you

[1:58:32] know, really is much better

[1:58:34] done by in third party.

[1:58:36] And do you think there should

[1:58:39] be some kind of uh credit given

[1:58:45] to if even to uh 30 to B.J. For

[1:58:47] the training and experience

[1:58:50] already because you've been

[1:58:53] doing it for a while and the

[1:58:55] other piece of that is do you

[1:58:57] think there should be some kind

[1:58:58] of grandfathering in for

[1:59:00] companies that are already

[1:59:00] doing the training?

[1:59:03] Um, the ordinance provides that

[1:59:05] every single officer currently

[1:59:06] employed would get certified

[1:59:09] within I forget 90 days I

[1:59:10] believe or 100 and 880 days.

[1:59:13] Um we think everyone needs this

[1:59:15] training and as you've heard

[1:59:17] people are they they MAY be

[1:59:18] working there a long time but

[1:59:19] they're not getting the

[1:59:21] training and this is only one

[1:59:24] week's training initially 40

[1:59:25] hours and it sort

[1:59:26] of establishes a baseline which

[1:59:28] we think would be good for the

[1:59:30] safety of the officers, the

[1:59:32] safety of the residents and the

[1:59:34] citizens of the city of boston.

[1:59:35] So let me ask this another way.

[1:59:37] So stanley's been working for

[1:59:39] how long stanley have been with

[1:59:40] the company a year and five

[1:59:40] months.

[1:59:42] Uh, and tell him that you've

[1:59:43] been working for how long?

[1:59:44] Six years.

[1:59:46] And sam, you've been working

[1:59:47] for how long?

[1:59:48] So with the company.

[1:59:50] Four years and total six years

[1:59:51] for security.

[1:59:53] And so tanya's six years and

[1:59:55] stanley's four years.

[1:59:56] You think they still should

[1:59:59] have to go through a 40 hour

[2:00:00] program knowing that he's been

[2:00:02] doing it for four years?

[2:00:03] Probably could teach it.

[2:00:05] Tanya, uh, mentioned that she

[2:00:07] had taught some of her

[2:00:08] supervisors.

[2:00:09] You think they should still

[2:00:10] have to go through the program

[2:00:12] for certification for the

[2:00:15] initial certification and then

[2:00:18] each year how many hours was

[2:00:18] it?

[2:00:20] Was it it's eight hours each

[2:00:20] year.

[2:00:23] We do okay.

[2:00:25] We do I mean I know.

[2:00:30] That my time already.

[2:00:33] Uh but you MAY.

[2:00:34] You MAY continue uh.

[2:00:36] >> just just as uh, boston you

[2:00:38] know, uh, police officers have

[2:00:39] continuing ed I'm continuing

[2:00:40] training.

[2:00:41] The people need to be

[2:00:42] continually trained.

[2:00:45] Things change over time and yes

[2:00:46] ,we do.

[2:00:47] Okay.

[2:00:48] >> thank you.

[2:00:51] Um, did you want to provide an

[2:00:51] answer?

[2:00:52] I see your light is on.

[2:00:53] Did you want to provide an

[2:00:53] answer?

[2:00:53] No.

[2:00:54] Okay, okay.

[2:00:55] And counselor.

[2:00:56] ,um.

[2:00:58] >> culpeper, did you have a did

[2:00:59] you have an additional

[2:00:59] question?

[2:01:00] Yeah.

[2:01:03] >> I mean I think everyone

[2:01:04] agrees that there's a gap that

[2:01:06] there is no training and that

[2:01:09] there, uh, needs to be

[2:01:09] training.

[2:01:11] I just think part of the

[2:01:14] challenge is the implementation

[2:01:17] and the creating of an office

[2:01:21] for, um, operationalizing this

[2:01:24] uh, within the city and then

[2:01:24] implementation.

[2:01:26] And so the question is when you

[2:01:30] look at operationalizing this

[2:01:31] and you look at the

[2:01:33] implementation from the city,

[2:01:35] how do you see yourself working

[2:01:37] with the city to help get this,

[2:01:40] uh, in place and then

[2:01:40] implementation?

[2:01:43] Um.

[2:01:45] Well, uh, we would you know,

[2:01:47] our training fund would work

[2:01:48] together with the employers and

[2:01:51] the city to make sure that the

[2:01:52] instructors and the times

[2:01:53] of the classes etc. And

[2:01:54] scheduling them and make you

[2:01:57] know, it's a it's a

[2:01:57] partnership.

[2:01:59] You know, the our training fund

[2:02:01] is a labor management, uh, you

[2:02:03] know, employer employee union

[2:02:05] cooperation and we work

[2:02:06] together to implement the

[2:02:08] training and and in this case

[2:02:09] the city would certify that

[2:02:12] that training is um adequate

[2:02:14] and uh, meets the needs.

[2:02:16] And you would charge the for

[2:02:18] the $12.

[2:02:19] Each employer.

[2:02:21] They come for you to pay for

[2:02:21] the.

[2:02:22] Company would.

[2:02:23] >> play okay.

[2:02:24] $312 a year.

[2:02:26] That's what they pay now in new

[2:02:27] york and it would be the same

[2:02:27] here.

[2:02:28] Thank you.

[2:02:30] >> thank you thank you that's

[2:02:30] good bye bye.

[2:02:32] I just have a few questions

[2:02:33] going to start my timer.

[2:02:37] Um, so I want to say thank you

[2:02:38] to everyone who's offered

[2:02:38] testimony.

[2:02:40] um, you all if this was your

[2:02:42] first time, I couldn't tell it

[2:02:42] .

[2:02:43] Uh, you guys, you all were

[2:02:43] great.

[2:02:46] Um, wanted to ask a few

[2:02:49] questions, however, um, so you

[2:02:50] know, this was the last

[2:02:52] question that I asked to the

[2:02:52] first panel.

[2:02:54] So, you know, we received a lot

[2:02:55] of testimony from industry.

[2:02:57] I've had conversations with

[2:02:58] industry and a lot of the focus

[2:02:59] is on cost.

[2:03:01] Um, the push back is on cost

[2:03:03] and the possibility that

[2:03:04] employers your clients could

[2:03:06] reduce security coverage if

[2:03:07] they were if they had to

[2:03:09] implement something um,

[2:03:10] pursuant to this ordinance, how

[2:03:12] do you respond to that concern

[2:03:14] that, you know, having to

[2:03:15] assume and internalize this

[2:03:17] costs will lead to less

[2:03:19] security coverage and what do

[2:03:21] you think is the cost of not

[2:03:22] having a consistent training

[2:03:23] standard for workers, employers

[2:03:24] and the public?

[2:03:29] Well, uh, we work for

[2:03:30] contractors and contractors.

[2:03:32] Um, contract is dependent upon

[2:03:35] the contracting entity and so,

[2:03:36] uh, I would assume that in

[2:03:38] time, uh, that this cost would

[2:03:40] be absorbed by the contracting

[2:03:42] entity, um, as is appropriate.

[2:03:44] Um, this would also serve to

[2:03:45] level the playing field between

[2:03:47] large and small contractors.

[2:03:48] Smaller contractors right now

[2:03:50] have a more difficult time

[2:03:52] providing this training, but

[2:03:53] once it's standardized across

[2:03:55] industry both large and small

[2:03:57] contractors would that would be

[2:03:58] standardized and everyone would

[2:03:59] be on a level playing field for

[2:04:01] training, which we thinks would

[2:04:02] actually help smaller companies

[2:04:03] to grow.

[2:04:06] Um, and uh we think that's a

[2:04:08] you know, can be in many cases

[2:04:09] a very good thing.

[2:04:13] So um, what was the other

[2:04:13] question?

[2:04:15] Um, what it what what is the

[2:04:16] cost of not having consistent

[2:04:17] training.

[2:04:19] Standards not having it and

[2:04:20] it's like the amex commercial,

[2:04:21] you know what's the cost of not

[2:04:23] having training prices?

[2:04:24] Um, okay.

[2:04:25] Uh, I have a question uh,

[2:04:27] that's geared more towards uh,

[2:04:28] security to or towards the

[2:04:29] security guards.

[2:04:32] Um, what made you decide to get

[2:04:33] into this into your current

[2:04:34] line of employment?

[2:04:35] What was the decision to become

[2:04:35] a security guard?

[2:04:39] I guess that's both to, uh to

[2:04:39] tania.

[2:04:40] Yeah.

[2:04:41] Uh, so honestly.

[2:04:43] Um, be 100%.

[2:04:43] Honest.

[2:04:44] >> I wanted.

[2:04:47] To just, you know, experience

[2:04:48] something new.

[2:04:51] Um, outside of before doing my

[2:04:53] security, I was at boston ball

[2:04:55] and I was the cash register, so

[2:04:57] I wanted to try something new.

[2:04:58] To just.

[2:05:00] You know, have the ball rolling

[2:05:03] but also, um, being a part

[2:05:05] of the public a little bit

[2:05:05] more.

[2:05:07] I do spend my time upstairs

[2:05:09] with the kids at my job a lot

[2:05:12] so I just wanted something new,

[2:05:14] something that would be okay to

[2:05:17] secure people and just remind

[2:05:18] them that they're safe.

[2:05:21] Thank you stanley or I mean you

[2:05:22] don't have to answer the

[2:05:23] question, but it's stanley sam,

[2:05:24] if either of you guys I'm sure.

[2:05:26] So for me, uh, I was out

[2:05:27] of work for a little bit prior

[2:05:27] to that.

[2:05:28] Prior that I was doing, uh,

[2:05:29] government work.

[2:05:31] Um, for green maybe getting

[2:05:32] into the industry is, uh it's.

[2:05:34] Fortunately just don't want

[2:05:35] hire me after.

[2:05:36] Oh hire me.

[2:05:38] So at the time, uh, as time

[2:05:40] went on I've like I already had

[2:05:42] experience in security but it

[2:05:43] does help me.

[2:05:44] Uh, they taught me a lot.

[2:05:44] >> about how to.

[2:05:47] Interact with people, talk and

[2:05:47] de-escalate.

[2:05:50] Situations and hopefully turn

[2:05:50] into something different.

[2:05:52] >> so I think.

[2:05:54] Uh, for me personally I started

[2:05:56] going into security because I

[2:05:57] already had some prior

[2:05:59] experience working for other

[2:06:01] jobs and to be very honest I

[2:06:02] was just looking for steady

[2:06:05] work, steady income uh, to be

[2:06:06] honest they had benefits the

[2:06:07] specific site.

[2:06:10] And a decent wage um could be

[2:06:12] better in the greater boston

[2:06:14] area but for my current

[2:06:15] situation it was better than

[2:06:16] nothing to be completely

[2:06:16] honest.

[2:06:19] Thank you and thank you for

[2:06:20] offering that and thank you for

[2:06:21] keeping the people and

[2:06:23] buildings that you work at safe

[2:06:23] .

[2:06:25] It's also great to know that we

[2:06:27] have the experience on the

[2:06:27] council of three former

[2:06:28] security guards who can bring

[2:06:30] their own lived experience into

[2:06:33] this my my older sister one

[2:06:34] of her first jobs was as a

[2:06:35] security guard as well.

[2:06:37] And so I know that for a lot

[2:06:38] of folks working class folks

[2:06:39] this is an important job.

[2:06:42] Um and it's a job that many

[2:06:44] people, you know, end up having

[2:06:45] and it's an important one that

[2:06:46] is worthy of having, uh, the

[2:06:47] training necessary.

[2:06:49] Um, I asked that question in

[2:06:50] part because I think one of the

[2:06:52] goals here is to try to treat

[2:06:54] security work more like a

[2:06:55] profession.

[2:06:56] And so I'm wondering should the

[2:06:57] training credential belong to

[2:06:58] the worker or follow them from

[2:06:59] employer to employer?

[2:07:01] Have you have we thought about

[2:07:02] that and what could that look

[2:07:04] like to and especially in terms

[2:07:05] of creating a career path for

[2:07:06] people?

[2:07:08] Yeah yeah I mean I'm most

[2:07:10] familiar with new jersey which

[2:07:11] is where I work before and you

[2:07:13] would get the called your saw a

[2:07:14] license and so once you had

[2:07:16] that 40 hours initial you'd

[2:07:17] have you saw a license and it

[2:07:19] had to be renewed and it didn't

[2:07:20] matter which employer you were

[2:07:22] with it went from person to

[2:07:22] person.

[2:07:25] So I assume that that this

[2:07:26] that's what this training would

[2:07:26] be.

[2:07:28] Thank you.

[2:07:30] Um, do any of my colleagues

[2:07:32] when I, uh the lead sponsor do

[2:07:33] you have any okay, I'm done

[2:07:34] with my time.

[2:07:35] Do you have any follow up

[2:07:36] questions for this panel?

[2:07:37] Okay.

[2:07:38] Thank you.

[2:07:39] I want to thank this panel for

[2:07:39] being here.

[2:07:40] I want to thank you for your

[2:07:41] work and your testimony and the

[2:07:42] work that you do on behalf

[2:07:44] of the residents and out here

[2:07:45] in the city of boston.

[2:07:46] This is just the beginning and

[2:07:48] we'll continue to have ongoing

[2:07:49] conversations to have an

[2:07:50] inclusive dialog to make sure

[2:07:52] that we work and get the

[2:07:53] language and the meaning

[2:07:54] of this um, ordinance right.

[2:07:57] Uh, kevin, you have some final

[2:07:57] remarks that you'd like to

[2:07:58] offer.

[2:08:00] I just wanted to say thank you,

[2:08:02] MADAM Chair louijeune and

[2:08:03] COUNCILMAN Santana for

[2:08:04] sponsoring this.

[2:08:04] Thank you.

[2:08:05] >> thank you, thank you.

[2:08:06] Thanks everyone.

[2:08:18] Thank you.

[2:08:20] >> my I do also want to I

[2:08:22] mentioned several times the

[2:08:24] security guard who passed in uh

[2:08:25] new york city and I failed to

[2:08:27] say his name so I just want to

[2:08:28] make sure I just honor the

[2:08:29] memory of I wanted to end in

[2:08:31] this meeting in this in this

[2:08:33] hearing we are now moving on to

[2:08:34] public testimony.

[2:08:38] Um, tribal testimony will be

[2:08:40] called in the order of arrival.

[2:08:43] Um, each person will have two

[2:08:44] minutes to offer public

[2:08:45] testimony.

[2:08:46] As you can see I have not been

[2:08:47] lethal with the timer today but

[2:08:49] if we could try to keep to the

[2:08:50] two minutes that would be

[2:08:51] great.

[2:08:52] Um, first on the list for

[2:08:54] public testimony is um irby

[2:08:55] duran.

[2:08:56] Uh, irby.

[2:08:58] Hello, I want you you have the

[2:08:59] floor in two minutes.

[2:09:01] Um.

[2:09:02] >> good morning.

[2:09:03] good morning, MADAM Chair.

[2:09:05] Um, my name is herbert

[2:09:06] duvernay.

[2:09:08] I'm the founder of and ceo

[2:09:09] of one worker group.

[2:09:12] Well, boston based security

[2:09:14] company employing approximately

[2:09:15] one 200 people.

[2:09:17] I want to make something clear

[2:09:20] from the beginning I believe in

[2:09:21] training and training and

[2:09:23] workforce development.

[2:09:24] Uh, actually part of my

[2:09:24] business.

[2:09:27] But I'm concerned that the

[2:09:29] ordinance will unintentionally

[2:09:31] hurt two groups small and

[2:09:34] disadvantaged businesses trying

[2:09:36] to compete and people who need

[2:09:38] flexible part time work to get

[2:09:38] ahead.

[2:09:40] I know both up.

[2:09:43] Personally I came to this

[2:09:45] country from haiti when I was

[2:09:45] 20 years old.

[2:09:47] I didn't speak a word

[2:09:49] of english, I cleaned bathrooms

[2:09:51] ,I drove a cab, I work in

[2:09:52] grocery store.

[2:09:54] I did whatever job I could find

[2:09:56] when I enrolled at northeastern

[2:09:58] university I didn't even know

[2:09:59] what I wanted to study.

[2:10:01] Then somebody gave me an

[2:10:03] opportunity to work security at

[2:10:05] dana-farber I receive an

[2:10:07] orientation and basic training

[2:10:11] and then I learn on the job.

[2:10:13] Supervisors and mentors coached

[2:10:15] me, corrected me and wanted

[2:10:16] me to succeed.

[2:10:19] That opportunity changed my

[2:10:19] life.

[2:10:21] I discovered that security

[2:10:23] could become my profession.

[2:10:25] I chose criminal justice,

[2:10:28] earned my bachelor's degree and

[2:10:29] master's degree from

[2:10:31] northeastern university, move

[2:10:33] into management and executive

[2:10:35] leadership and eventually

[2:10:38] founded my own security

[2:10:38] company.

[2:10:40] My career did not start.

[2:10:42] With a card.

[2:10:43] >> of 40 hours checklist.

[2:10:45] It started because somebody

[2:10:48] give me an opportunity that is

[2:10:50] the concern me about this

[2:10:52] ordinance today look at the

[2:10:53] people we hire.

[2:10:56] We hire students, we hire

[2:10:58] immigrants, we hire people

[2:11:00] working on a job we hire people

[2:11:02] would need a weekend or a part

[2:11:04] time job and we want people we

[2:11:06] want to help people to pay

[2:11:06] their bills.

[2:11:09] These are people are actually

[2:11:09] employees.

[2:11:12] Now imagine a student who wants

[2:11:13] to work.

[2:11:16] Security on weekends or someone

[2:11:17] already working a full time job

[2:11:20] who want an additional 15 hours

[2:11:23] a week with before they can

[2:11:25] access the opportunity they now

[2:11:28] have to five 40 hours of time

[2:11:30] so they can they can get the

[2:11:30] training going.

[2:11:33] I do believe that this

[2:11:35] ordinance will be a

[2:11:36] disadvantage to make companies

[2:11:38] like my be competitive because

[2:11:40] it's hard to do that even

[2:11:42] though we did that big event

[2:11:45] that we see outside my firm

[2:11:49] hire and train 100 and I 190

[2:11:51] people and five weeks due to

[2:11:52] the fifa world cup.

[2:11:54] We train our people, we have

[2:11:55] our secret sauce.

[2:11:57] We think that training should

[2:11:59] be something internal because

[2:12:00] that's what companies are going

[2:12:01] to need so they can thrive and

[2:12:02] do better.

[2:12:05] And also for the record myself

[2:12:08] and other minority company

[2:12:10] we're not invited to be on a

[2:12:13] panel at all which I think is a

[2:12:14] disgrace because if we're doing

[2:12:17] this work and we want to help

[2:12:19] security company I wonder what

[2:12:21] people it's a simple thing to

[2:12:23] call the security and small

[2:12:24] business that do business in

[2:12:27] the city and have them sit down

[2:12:28] so they can have that

[2:12:30] discussion and as far as I know

[2:12:32] back my was not informed as

[2:12:32] well.

[2:12:33] Just for the record I want to

[2:12:34] make that clear.

[2:12:35] Thank you.

[2:12:36] Thank you.

[2:12:39] Um we are now moving on to uh,

[2:12:41] zoom testimony someone who was

[2:12:43] on a time constraint that steve

[2:12:45] amity you have the floor and

[2:12:49] you have two minutes.

[2:12:49] Um.

[2:12:54] Starting now.

[2:12:57] Uh, you're sorry steve, if you

[2:12:58] could start over because I

[2:12:58] believe you're muted.

[2:13:00] Thank you.

[2:13:01] >> members of the committee.

[2:13:02] My name is steve amata and I'm

[2:13:04] the executive director of the

[2:13:05] national association

[2:13:07] of security companies nasco in

[2:13:08] boston.

[2:13:09] Nasco members employ thousands

[2:13:10] of trained security officers,

[2:13:12] receive initial on the job

[2:13:14] client and site specific and

[2:13:15] recurrent training that enables

[2:13:17] them to successfully perform

[2:13:18] the security tasks required

[2:13:20] of them as laid out in client

[2:13:22] contracts as specified in site

[2:13:22] post orders.

[2:13:25] Nasco believes that all persons

[2:13:26] performing security service

[2:13:27] should undergo baseline

[2:13:29] training but for structural,

[2:13:30] substantive and practical

[2:13:32] reasons stock at 1541 the

[2:13:33] ordinance is not appropriate.

[2:13:35] a vehicle for attaining such.

[2:13:35] >> a goal.

[2:13:37] Has currently drafted as herbie

[2:13:38] just said it will deter persons

[2:13:39] from entering the field.

[2:13:42] Uh it will uh it will cause

[2:13:44] nonprofits and other clients

[2:13:46] who have set security budgets

[2:13:48] to decrease their uh, security

[2:13:49] services because they will not

[2:13:50] be able to absorb the

[2:13:52] additional costs that the

[2:13:54] training will require them to

[2:13:54] pay.

[2:13:56] And perhaps most significantly,

[2:13:58] the ordinance fails to

[2:13:59] comprehend the enormity and

[2:13:59] difficulty of the task.

[2:14:01] At hand.

[2:14:02] There's been some discussion,

[2:14:03] but I think you've got to

[2:14:04] understand that this ordinance

[2:14:06] is assigning all authority and

[2:14:08] responsibility for a 40 hour

[2:14:10] training program to an office

[2:14:11] that has no experience in

[2:14:12] developing, certify and

[2:14:14] implementing administering

[2:14:15] overseeing training programs

[2:14:17] nor is any experience related

[2:14:18] to private security.

[2:14:20] One just needs to look at

[2:14:21] philadelphia to see that this

[2:14:23] is a problematic formula.

[2:14:25] In philadelphia in MARCH a law

[2:14:26] became effective that requires

[2:14:28] all new unarmed security

[2:14:29] officers to undergo a 12 hour

[2:14:31] training requirement and assign

[2:14:33] that task to its office

[2:14:34] of workers protection like the

[2:14:35] ordinance does.

[2:14:37] But now, five months later,

[2:14:38] there's not a single recognized

[2:14:40] security training program for a

[2:14:42] 12 hour program far less than a

[2:14:43] 40 hour program.

[2:14:45] And also the city has proposed

[2:14:47] it implementation indefinitely

[2:14:48] and it's estimated that

[2:14:49] implement implementing

[2:14:50] regulations will not be

[2:14:52] available for review until

[2:14:52] 2028.

[2:14:54] Uh one has to seriously

[2:14:56] question the reality and

[2:14:58] feasibility of implementing the

[2:15:00] bill, you know, in boston.

[2:15:01] And I'll note that the philly

[2:15:03] bill started out as a bill

[2:15:05] almost identical to this bill

[2:15:07] and in the end it was after

[2:15:08] much consideration with.

[2:15:10] Industry and the players errors

[2:15:12] reduced to a 12 hour initial

[2:15:13] requirement an eight hour

[2:15:15] recurring requirement with an

[2:15:18] emphasis on use of force

[2:15:21] de-escalation uh cpr, first aid

[2:15:23] communication and other vital

[2:15:23] skills.

[2:15:25] Relatedly, the ordinance does

[2:15:27] not provide additional staffing

[2:15:28] and appropriations and I would

[2:15:31] note that in minnesota at 2025

[2:15:32] they tried to increase training

[2:15:34] from 12 hours to 40 hours with

[2:15:36] a similar bill and it was

[2:15:37] estimated that it would take

[2:15:38] eight full time staff and a

[2:15:40] budget of well over $1 million

[2:15:42] to get that program rolling.

[2:15:44] Finally, the ordinance somewhat

[2:15:46] infers that security officers

[2:15:47] based on a minimum amount

[2:15:48] of required training will have

[2:15:50] a duty to engage with violent

[2:15:52] individuals people in mental

[2:15:53] health crises or people

[2:15:54] impaired by substance that is

[2:15:56] wrong, dangerous and not.

[2:15:57] It's for growing role

[2:15:58] of security officer.

[2:16:01] As the rep said security

[2:16:02] officers are the eyes and ears.

[2:16:04] They are not police officers,

[2:16:05] emts, drug counselors or mental

[2:16:07] health crisis responders who go

[2:16:09] hundreds of hours of training

[2:16:10] and encouraging officers to get

[2:16:11] involved in dangerous

[2:16:11] situations.

[2:16:13] Cancer post orders puts

[2:16:14] officers and bystanders at

[2:16:17] physical risk and also exposes

[2:16:18] officers and their companies to

[2:16:20] legal and civil liability.

[2:16:21] We look forward to working with

[2:16:23] the council to come up with

[2:16:24] some common sense legislation.

[2:16:25] Thank you, thank you.

[2:16:28] The chair recognizes gregory

[2:16:28] maynard.

[2:16:31] Uh, you have the floor in two

[2:16:31] minutes.

[2:16:34] Thank you so much.

[2:16:36] Uh, my name is gregory maynard

[2:16:37] and I am the executive director

[2:16:38] of the boston policy institute

[2:16:38] .

[2:16:40] Why is this hearing happening

[2:16:42] now that's an important

[2:16:43] question to ask because this

[2:16:44] hearing is unusual.

[2:16:47] It happened fast in a chamber

[2:16:48] where dockets typically don't

[2:16:50] move very quickly especially

[2:16:51] one like this which is not a

[2:16:53] time sensitive mayoral

[2:16:54] appointment or a piece of city

[2:16:56] hall legislation but instead a

[2:16:58] docket offered by a city

[2:16:59] councilor in AUGUST.

[2:17:01] How fast did this hearing

[2:17:01] happen?

[2:17:03] This docket was offered less

[2:17:04] than a week ago on AUGUST 5th.

[2:17:06] It was scheduled for a hearing

[2:17:08] on AUGUST 6th and now the

[2:17:10] hearing is happening today,

[2:17:10] AUGUST 11th.

[2:17:12] That means this docket cut

[2:17:14] dozens of other dockets in

[2:17:14] line.

[2:17:16] That is a choice that comes

[2:17:18] with an opportunity cost best

[2:17:19] demonstrated using examples

[2:17:21] of the government operations

[2:17:22] committee and the public safety

[2:17:22] committee.

[2:17:24] as of the last council meeting

[2:17:26] on AUGUST 5th, the government

[2:17:27] operations committee which is

[2:17:29] holding this hearing had 30

[2:17:30] dockets before it without

[2:17:31] hearing scheduled.

[2:17:33] That includes an ordinance from

[2:17:35] councilor pepen on the use

[2:17:36] of school bus violation

[2:17:38] detector um detection

[2:17:39] monitoring system devices

[2:17:41] weapons ordinance was first

[2:17:43] offered in 2025 but didn't get

[2:17:44] a hearing last year either.

[2:17:46] The public safety committee,

[2:17:47] which is chaired by henry

[2:17:49] santana, the lead sponsor

[2:17:51] of this docket, had 25 dockets

[2:17:53] without hearing scheduled as

[2:17:53] of AUGUST 5th.

[2:17:55] That number doesn't include the

[2:17:58] public safety briefing that the

[2:17:59] council demanded in a unanimous

[2:18:01] vote, including every

[2:18:02] councilor who's asked a

[2:18:03] question at this hearing back

[2:18:03] on JULY 8th.

[2:18:06] Right now, boston is facing a

[2:18:08] variety of pressing issues from

[2:18:10] the deadliest summer in several

[2:18:12] years to an emotional and

[2:18:13] policy heavy street safety

[2:18:14] conversation.

[2:18:16] More pressing issues are coming

[2:18:17] the first day of school is less

[2:18:19] than a month away, and the

[2:18:20] district has told the school

[2:18:21] committee that another round

[2:18:22] of school closures are coming.

[2:18:24] The council hasn't held

[2:18:26] hearings on any of those issues

[2:18:27] this summer.

[2:18:29] Instead this hearing is

[2:18:29] happening.

[2:18:30] Thank you so much.

[2:18:31] Thank you.

[2:18:33] Uh, the chair recognizes david.

[2:18:37] David, you have the floor and

[2:18:37] two minutes.

[2:18:43] Uh good afternoon everyone.

[2:18:44] my name is david console.

[2:18:46] I'm a co-founder of recon

[2:18:47] security along with alongside

[2:18:48] with my business partner, uh,

[2:18:49] jesse rivera.

[2:18:51] Uh, I want to start out by

[2:18:52] saying I believe in training.

[2:18:54] We train everyone that we

[2:18:54] employ.

[2:18:56] I work security myself.

[2:18:59] Uh, as an immigrant in college

[2:19:00] playing college football, I

[2:19:02] played d3 so I had to work.

[2:19:04] I worked overnight shifts and I

[2:19:05] go straight and play a full

[2:19:06] college football game.

[2:19:09] Um, so I understand the

[2:19:11] importance of just properly

[2:19:11] preparing.

[2:19:14] I worked all kinds of security

[2:19:14] .

[2:19:15] I've been a bouncer at clubs so

[2:19:17] I've seen every kind

[2:19:18] of scenario when it comes to

[2:19:20] security in addition to being

[2:19:21] an employer.

[2:19:23] Uh, I started this company when

[2:19:24] I was 26.

[2:19:26] So I get in these rooms and I'm

[2:19:29] the only one at this age.

[2:19:30] I have gray hair.

[2:19:31] That's just why I'm coming

[2:19:32] along from here on in this

[2:19:32] business.

[2:19:35] But I'm still very young and um

[2:19:37] ,when we built the company

[2:19:41] from the ground up we face a

[2:19:42] lot of like balancing payroll,

[2:19:45] staffing, insurance and

[2:19:45] competing against national

[2:19:46] companies.

[2:19:48] I've been able to win bigger

[2:19:50] contracts only because

[2:19:51] relationships I played college

[2:19:52] football so I know people and

[2:19:53] that's the only reason why, um

[2:19:56] ,when it comes to bidding out

[2:19:58] we're getting priced out so you

[2:20:00] add certain things like this if

[2:20:01] it's not implemented the right

[2:20:03] way, uh, it begins to hurt us.

[2:20:06] Um, I've seen other instances

[2:20:08] where a lot of people don't

[2:20:10] want to pay for security just

[2:20:11] another line item.

[2:20:13] So when we passed the cost

[2:20:15] passed the cost off to the

[2:20:17] client then they're like they

[2:20:18] they just go in-house.

[2:20:20] So that hurts us as well.

[2:20:22] Um.

[2:20:26] My partner he came from

[2:20:27] florida, uh, where he seen

[2:20:29] models where the training costs

[2:20:31] are passed off to the employee

[2:20:32] to different economies from

[2:20:35] boston and uh, florida.

[2:20:36] I don't think that's the

[2:20:36] answer.

[2:20:38] Philadelphia has its issues.

[2:20:40] Um, I'll be candid.

[2:20:42] This process happened very

[2:20:42] quickly.

[2:20:44] I'm an employer directly

[2:20:46] affected by this ordinance and

[2:20:47] I didn't know it was being

[2:20:49] considered until recently.

[2:20:51] If I didn't know, I imagine

[2:20:52] there are other employers who

[2:20:53] haven't had the opportunity to

[2:20:53] provide.

[2:20:55] So I'm asking the city

[2:20:56] council to give employers

[2:20:57] employees training

[2:20:59] professionals and particularly

[2:21:00] small and minority owned

[2:21:03] businesses more opportunity to

[2:21:04] participate in this

[2:21:04] conversation.

[2:21:08] Training is important but

[2:21:09] implementation, affordability

[2:21:10] and accessibility are just as

[2:21:10] important.

[2:21:12] Let's make sure we get all

[2:21:12] through right before moving

[2:21:13] forward.

[2:21:16] Thank you.

[2:21:19] Um I see a name here but I feel

[2:21:20] like they've already talked.

[2:21:20] Is it?

[2:21:22] yeah, he was on the jeff what?

[2:21:23] Uh, you this is just signing

[2:21:23] in.

[2:21:24] Okay, great.

[2:21:24] Yep.

[2:21:25] Okay.

[2:21:25] Um.

[2:21:26] Liam o'connell.

[2:21:33] You have the floor in two

[2:21:34] minutes.

[2:21:35] Thank you.

[2:21:35] >> very much.

[2:21:36] Uh.

[2:21:36] Be brief.

[2:21:37] My name is liam o'connell.

[2:21:38] >> of the law firm.

[2:21:39] >> mclennan.

[2:21:40] >> I represent, uh, securitas.

[2:21:41] Security services.

[2:21:42] Uh, we.

[2:21:43] >> found out.

[2:21:43] >> about this.

[2:21:45] Uh, hearing yesterday, so

[2:21:47] apologies for not having, uh,

[2:21:47] pre-prepared remarks.

[2:21:49] I've sat here and listened to

[2:21:50] all the testimony and really

[2:21:51] just want to echo a few points.

[2:21:52] That were made.

[2:21:54] Securitas has.

[2:21:55] >> a long standing.

[2:21:56] Reputation in the security

[2:21:56] industry.

[2:21:58] It's committed to training its

[2:21:58] employees.

[2:21:58] It has a.

[2:22:00] Positive relationship with its

[2:22:02] union brethren at 32 bjj we

[2:22:04] don't oppose training but we do

[2:22:04] oppose this.

[2:22:05] Ordinance as it presently.

[2:22:06] Uh presented.

[2:22:08] Um there's.

[2:22:09] >> a legitimate.

[2:22:09] Question about.

[2:22:11] >> the state and federal and.

[2:22:14] State or uh city implications

[2:22:14] of this.

[2:22:15] >> uh, to my knowledge.

[2:22:17] >> there are 41 states in the

[2:22:17] union.

[2:22:18] They require security training.

[2:22:19] Those are states, not cities.

[2:22:21] Uh, there's been much talk

[2:22:22] about philadelphia and the

[2:22:24] experience in philadelphia with

[2:22:25] the city ordinance and how

[2:22:26] they've had to scale back what

[2:22:28] was initially proposed in the

[2:22:30] ordinance the 40 hours to 12

[2:22:31] they now are grandfathering

[2:22:32] exit training that was already

[2:22:35] uh conducted as uh council uh

[2:22:37] person uh cole pepper was

[2:22:38] questioning about not.

[2:22:38] >> all.

[2:22:40] The training now is required in

[2:22:42] person but at at some core

[2:22:43] level there is a legitimate

[2:22:45] issue here that much of the

[2:22:46] discussion here today and the

[2:22:47] proposals that are contained

[2:22:49] within the ordinance takes the

[2:22:51] private security function in a

[2:22:53] direction that becomes more

[2:22:55] like a quasi public safety

[2:22:56] role.

[2:22:57] That is not what we do,

[2:22:58] certainly not in all locations.

[2:23:00] In fact we have some clients

[2:23:01] universities in example that

[2:23:03] have their own police force.

[2:23:05] Uh, we have restrictions on

[2:23:07] what our people can do by way

[2:23:09] of security and they can't get

[2:23:11] involved in certain uh,

[2:23:13] incidents and their job is to

[2:23:14] just reported to the police

[2:23:15] either uh, the university

[2:23:17] police, for example, or public

[2:23:18] authorities.

[2:23:19] Uh, and moreover there's been

[2:23:21] some discussion of this already

[2:23:23] a mr amini made the the uh the

[2:23:26] point that our officers and our

[2:23:28] employers don't enjoy uh,

[2:23:30] immunity from um, civil

[2:23:32] litigation, uh, for getting

[2:23:34] involved in such incidents.

[2:23:37] So we respectfully urge the

[2:23:38] council to take more time to

[2:23:40] consider the number of items

[2:23:41] that were discussed here today

[2:23:42] that remain open, including

[2:23:44] whether the infrastructure

[2:23:46] exists to do this training.

[2:23:47] Thank you.

[2:23:53] Thank you.

[2:23:55] Next up we have terry williams

[2:23:55] .

[2:23:59] You have the floor terry and

[2:23:59] two minutes.

[2:24:00] Hi.

[2:24:02] >> thank you.

[2:24:04] Um first of all I did just

[2:24:04] reset my hair.

[2:24:05] Uh, let.

[2:24:06] >> me.

[2:24:06] Introduce myself.

[2:24:07] I'm terry williams.

[2:24:08] I'm PRESIDENT.

[2:24:10] And owner of one united bank.

[2:24:10] Um.

[2:24:12] >> headquartered here in

[2:24:13] massachusetts.

[2:24:14] But we also have offices.

[2:24:17] In miami and in los angeles.

[2:24:18] Uh, I.

[2:24:21] Just heard about this, uh,

[2:24:24] hearing and so I didn't prepare

[2:24:24] remarks.

[2:24:26] However, I do want to share our

[2:24:28] experience with security.

[2:24:31] Um, we hire security for our

[2:24:31] branches.

[2:24:36] Um, it is a huge expense and

[2:24:38] what we try to do in each

[2:24:39] of the cities we're in is to

[2:24:42] hire locally and to hire small

[2:24:45] firms, um, because they tend to

[2:24:45] be cost effective.

[2:24:49] In addition to that, we also

[2:24:53] have a very limited, uh,

[2:24:54] responsibility that we give to

[2:24:55] those security officers.

[2:24:58] Um, very similar to what uh the

[2:24:59] gentleman just uh, stated that

[2:25:02] was here previously is that we

[2:25:04] don't want them to get involved

[2:25:07] in public safety, um,

[2:25:08] circumstances because it does

[2:25:11] put our employees at risk, our

[2:25:13] customers at risk if anything

[2:25:14] does happen, the first charge

[2:25:16] is really to call the police.

[2:25:19] Um, so I believe that this

[2:25:21] ordinance should not be enacted

[2:25:23] ,um, because it does take away

[2:25:24] the flexibility.

[2:25:28] For employers like me, uh, to

[2:25:31] hire security firms to do a

[2:25:33] narrow range of responsibility

[2:25:34] and to be cost effective.

[2:25:38] So I would ask that you would

[2:25:39] reconsider this ordinance.

[2:25:40] Thank you.

[2:25:43] >> um, I believe that's all we

[2:25:44] have for in-person testimony.

[2:25:46] Unless there's anyone else who

[2:25:47] is here to offer in-person

[2:25:48] testimony.

[2:25:50] Megan, do we have.

[2:25:51] Anyone signed up virtually.

[2:25:52] >> we have oh, yes.

[2:25:53] We have one additional person

[2:25:56] to, uh, offer testimony online

[2:25:56] via zoom.

[2:26:01] Um, rob cook uh, you have the

[2:26:02] floor and you have two minutes

[2:26:05] for public testimony starting.

[2:26:07] With moment by moment.

[2:26:07] Uh.

[2:26:12] Okay.

[2:26:15] >> okay.

[2:26:16] Starting now.

[2:26:20] Thank you, MADAM Vice chair.

[2:26:22] Uh, counselor santana and, uh,

[2:26:24] the committee um, there were

[2:26:26] just a few concerns, uh, raised

[2:26:27] today that I'd like to.

[2:26:29] Oh, can you not hear me?

[2:26:30] We can hear you.

[2:26:31] We can you okay.

[2:26:32] Yeah, we can hear you.

[2:26:33] Um, yeah.

[2:26:34] So there were just a few

[2:26:35] concerns, uh, raised today.

[2:26:37] I'm, uh I'm the, uh, policy

[2:26:40] fellow at 32 pj uh, and a few

[2:26:41] concerns I just wanted to

[2:26:44] briefly address um, there there

[2:26:46] were some concerns raised about

[2:26:47] whether this bill would

[2:26:48] conflict with state law.

[2:26:51] Um, and, uh, we don't think

[2:26:52] there's a cause for concern

[2:26:52] there.

[2:26:54] Um, well, uh, municipal law

[2:26:56] that's inconsistent with state

[2:26:58] law can be preempted in some

[2:26:58] cases.

[2:27:01] Um and state law here does

[2:27:02] include a registration scheme

[2:27:03] for security companies.

[2:27:06] Um, there's no state level

[2:27:07] unarmed guard training

[2:27:08] requirements.

[2:27:10] Uh, so there's no conflict

[2:27:13] between state law and uh, this

[2:27:14] municipal proposal.

[2:27:17] Um, I think another point to be

[2:27:20] made about part timers, uh and

[2:27:22] the uh timeline of getting the

[2:27:24] training if you're a busy part

[2:27:25] timer, uh, existing employees

[2:27:28] have uh, half a year to finish

[2:27:28] the training.

[2:27:30] Uh, and new employees have to

[2:27:32] have three months and, uh, we

[2:27:34] think that part timers, uh,

[2:27:37] deserve uh, you know, the the

[2:27:38] support and the preparation

[2:27:40] that full timers would get as

[2:27:40] well.

[2:27:42] Um, and and I guess as far as

[2:27:45] uh, questions about the role

[2:27:46] of officers officer security

[2:27:48] officers acting as the eyes and

[2:27:50] ears.

[2:27:51] Um, you know, they do wear

[2:27:52] uniforms and people look to

[2:27:54] them in emergencies so they're

[2:27:56] involved in public safety.

[2:27:59] Uh uh, regardless, um.

[2:28:02] And uh several uh of the guards

[2:28:04] who testified have mentioned uh

[2:28:06] the police don't always arrive

[2:28:06] right away.

[2:28:09] Um, and and training like cpr

[2:28:11] and de-escalation can can save

[2:28:12] lives.

[2:28:15] Uh, so because security

[2:28:16] officers do find themselves in

[2:28:18] harm's way regardless of the

[2:28:20] intent of the companies in

[2:28:22] terms of their uh, the

[2:28:23] limitations on when they should

[2:28:25] intervene, uh, we do think

[2:28:27] that, uh, it's it's a serious

[2:28:29] risk not to provide them basic

[2:28:29] training.

[2:28:31] Um, and uh.

[2:28:32] >> I.

[2:28:32] Think that's.

[2:28:34] >> all uh, all I wanted to say.

[2:28:34] So thank.

[2:28:37] >> you, thank you, thank you

[2:28:38] and thank you to everyone who

[2:28:40] is offered public testimony.

[2:28:45] Um, I want to thank the panel

[2:28:46] and I want to thank the

[2:28:47] administration panel advocate

[2:28:48] panel I want to thank those who

[2:28:50] testified, including those from

[2:28:50] industry.

[2:28:53] And I will now turn it over to

[2:28:56] my uh, co-sponsor to the lead

[2:28:58] sponsor council, santana, for

[2:28:59] any closing remarks that you

[2:29:00] would like to make.

[2:29:00] Right.

[2:29:02] >> thank you because I want to

[2:29:03] thank you, MADAM Chair, for for

[2:29:06] chairing us um, today I do want

[2:29:07] to thank the administration and

[2:29:09] our advocate panel, um, for

[2:29:11] being, um, willing to come and

[2:29:13] testify and answer our

[2:29:13] questions.

[2:29:16] Um, and I do want to uh I do

[2:29:17] want to thank the public and

[2:29:18] people who provided public

[2:29:20] testimony, um, who are here

[2:29:20] today.

[2:29:21] I've also had many

[2:29:22] conversations over the last

[2:29:23] several days including with

[2:29:25] some um, you know, I think

[2:29:26] people who are supporting and

[2:29:27] have questions or.

[2:29:29] Concerns or opposing um, this

[2:29:30] ordinance and I want to make

[2:29:32] sure that um, as the lead

[2:29:34] sponsor that I'm taking those

[2:29:36] um, conversations um,

[2:29:36] seriously.

[2:29:38] So I'll tell you today

[2:29:39] obviously you're here in this

[2:29:39] chamber.

[2:29:41] Uh, but my office and myself

[2:29:42] are wanting to always meet, um

[2:29:44] ,um, with a meeting, um, to

[2:29:46] make sure that, um, we're

[2:29:47] meeting the needs um and

[2:29:49] hearing um, again, uh, all

[2:29:51] sides here, uh, I want to make

[2:29:52] sure that this, um, is you

[2:29:53] know, I think we've heard from

[2:29:54] multiple councilors.

[2:29:56] Um, we want to make sure that

[2:29:57] we get this right and we want

[2:29:59] to make sure that, um, even,

[2:30:01] um, uh, we want to make sure

[2:30:02] that we get this right.

[2:30:03] We want to make sure that, um,

[2:30:04] the intent of this one entity

[2:30:07] again is to, um, really protect

[2:30:09] our workers, um, frontline

[2:30:09] workers.

[2:30:10] Um, but we want to make sure

[2:30:12] that all parties and people who

[2:30:14] are affected by this, um, uh,

[2:30:15] are a part of the table and

[2:30:16] part of the conversation.

[2:30:18] So um, I encourage um, those

[2:30:20] who do want to meet with me in

[2:30:22] my office um, to reach out.

[2:30:24] Um, I will also be reaching out

[2:30:25] proactively also if you

[2:30:27] weren't, um, invited as a panel

[2:30:28] here, I hope that you don't

[2:30:31] take it as a as uh um sign

[2:30:32] of disrespect or any of that

[2:30:32] stuff.

[2:30:34] Um, I want to meet with you.

[2:30:36] Um, um, we want to make sure

[2:30:37] that we get this right.

[2:30:39] I do want thank um, 32 bj for

[2:30:40] your work.

[2:30:42] um, and in bringing this to

[2:30:44] this point as well and and I

[2:30:45] want to thank particularly the

[2:30:47] the workers who shared their

[2:30:48] stories um I you know, I

[2:30:50] acknowledge that it takes a lot

[2:30:52] of courage to be able to come

[2:30:54] and share your experience um,

[2:30:55] and not always positive

[2:30:56] experiences.

[2:30:58] Especially when your your you

[2:30:59] have an employer as well right?

[2:31:00] So I do want to thank them for

[2:31:02] their um for their testimony.

[2:31:04] Um thank you MADAM Chair.

[2:31:05] Um that's.

[2:31:06] A member of my.

[2:31:08] Thank you.

[2:31:09] And thank you again, counselor

[2:31:10] santana for your leadership and

[2:31:11] for offering this thank you to

[2:31:14] the for, uh, your work.

[2:31:15] I want to just echo what you

[2:31:17] stated that I think this is the

[2:31:19] beginning of important

[2:31:20] legislation.

[2:31:21] Um, it was really important for

[2:31:22] me to hear from our security

[2:31:24] guards who every day sometimes

[2:31:25] people walk by and not really

[2:31:27] notice the labor that they're

[2:31:28] doing and the importance

[2:31:29] of making sure that they have

[2:31:30] the requisite training right,

[2:31:31] not just for their benefit.

[2:31:32] Right.

[2:31:33] Making sure that they have the

[2:31:34] requisite training is also for

[2:31:35] everyone else's benefit.

[2:31:37] Um, and we know that there's

[2:31:39] there's wild variation in the

[2:31:40] industry in terms of what

[2:31:41] training is and isn't offered

[2:31:43] and I think there's a lot to

[2:31:45] learn uh, from what is actually

[2:31:46] happening in those in the

[2:31:46] industry.

[2:31:47] So again this is the beginning

[2:31:48] of a conversation.

[2:31:50] This is an ordinance that was

[2:31:52] offered um, and from ordinances

[2:31:54] we have additional hearings, we

[2:31:55] have additional working

[2:31:56] sessions and we have additional

[2:31:58] work uh, just to make that very

[2:32:00] clear but I really, um, uh,

[2:32:01] appreciate everyone for coming

[2:32:03] forward for offering testimony

[2:32:04] and for making sure that we do

[2:32:06] work, uh, that we do right by

[2:32:07] our workers and by our city.

[2:32:10] Um, with that this hearing on

[2:32:14] docket number one of 541 is

[2:32:14] adjourned.

City Council on 2026-08-11 10:00 AM

Agenda

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