[1:50] and got a relatively short agenda, but

[1:54] there's

[1:56] going to some

[2:04] I don't know if you got a chance to take

[2:06] a look at this, but going over this and

[2:08] just making This wording is absolutely

[2:12] because this will go to the council and

[2:16] the city manager set up a meeting for uh

[2:20] >> Can you pull the microphone a little

[2:21] » Can you pull the microphone a little

[2:21] closer so you're picked up?

[2:22] >> Okay.

[2:22] » Okay.

[2:22] >> Thank you.

[2:25] » Thank you.

[2:25] >> For set up a meeting for January. It's

[2:29] » For set up a meeting for January. It's

[2:29] Thursday, January 22nd, right?

[2:31] >> And that's when we will take a work plan

[2:35] » And that's when we will take a work plan

[2:35] to the city council and do a brief

[2:36] presentation and There will be a

[2:39] discussion at that time. U so anyway

[2:44] uh I'm going to actually uh delay I

[2:48] think we should delay the approval of

[2:50] the minutes because that's we need to go

[2:51] over that and make sure that wording is

[2:53] exactly what we want it to be before we

[2:55] approve that. So I'll jump right to item

[2:59] two, the start meeting update. U there's

[3:02] a general meeting on Wednesday that

[3:06] anybody can uh zoom into

[3:10] and I don't really I haven't

[3:14] received the agenda yet. Did you

[3:16] >> I thought it was tonight.

[3:17] » I thought it was tonight.

[3:17] >> Well, yeah, there's a policy

[3:18] » Well, yeah, there's a policy

[3:18] >> policy tonight.

[3:19] » policy tonight.

[3:19] >> There's a noise working group tonight.

[3:21] » There's a noise working group tonight.

[3:21] >> Tonight and then the regular meeting is

[3:23] » Tonight and then the regular meeting is

[3:23] Wednesday.

[3:24] >> Wednesday. Yeah.

[3:25] » Wednesday. Yeah.

[3:25] >> And what were time six?

[3:27] » And what were time six?

[3:27] >> Uh it's the same time.

[3:29] » Uh it's the same time.

[3:29] Yeah. Five.

[3:31] >> Okay. And uh so uh the only um

[3:39] » Okay. And uh so uh the only um

[3:39] the anything from the start is just

[3:41] basically uh uh the reports they are

[3:44] putting out on their their regular

[3:47] reports they put out. So I don't really

[3:49] have anything new. U the SAMP update is

[3:55] uh I don't know if any of you saw the

[3:59] lead story in the times.

[4:00] >> Oh yes,

[4:01] » Oh yes,

[4:01] >> but that was

[4:03] » but that was

[4:03] >> that was a pretty good article on

[4:05] » that was a pretty good article on

[4:05] summarize things.

[4:06] >> Yeah.

[4:08] » Yeah.

[4:08] So that's where that's at the city and

[4:13] three you know the last time we talked

[4:15] about the ILA between CAC and

[4:18] Mo and apparently that all was signed

[4:23] sealed and delivered and

[4:26] the lawyers got the appeal in on time.

[4:29] >> So that's rolling along. I don't but

[4:32] » So that's rolling along. I don't but

[4:32] it's probably a pretty long process.

[4:36] >> Um

[4:38] » Um

[4:38] takeaway I got from that u

[4:42] is

[4:43] and Jeff you got it Jeff it's basically

[4:46] u hey folks uh we have to build the we

[4:52] have to accommodate rising demand period

[4:54] and we start with that and if you guys

[4:57] don't go along with it that's kind of

[4:59] too bad but we have to do it anyway.

[5:03] Yeah, I and and the demand will be here.

[5:06] That's kind of a given. And and the FAA,

[5:09] I'm sorry, and the FAA uh requirements

[5:14] um are given.

[5:17] So then somehow we have to make the case

[5:20] that we're disproportionately impacted.

[5:26] » Well, it'll be an interesting

[5:27] discussion.

[5:28] I uh

[5:30] I I

[5:33] going through that article and just

[5:35] taking a few notes just seemed to me

[5:37] like

[5:40] often in process in a process like this

[5:49] on a number

[5:51] of

[5:53] >> the real thing. Yeah. Yeah.

[5:55] » the real thing. Yeah. Yeah.

[5:55] >> That's right.

[5:57] » That's right.

[5:57] I think I think that's one of the first

[5:59] questions I'd like to

[6:03] get an answer to is where did the number

[6:05] come from where did

[6:08] they came by 2032

[6:11] >> 56 yeah we're 52 million it'll be 56

[6:14] » 56 yeah we're 52 million it'll be 56

[6:14] million in two more years in 2030 yeah

[6:19] >> where did they get that

[6:24] it has to be some way population growth

[6:27] I would imagine

[6:28] >> they've done I mean I've seen studies

[6:31] » they've done I mean I've seen studies

[6:31] done that just kind of blly extrapolate

[6:36] without taking into consideration

[6:40] hiccups like COVID and other things that

[6:42] can occur you know I think they've taken

[6:44] the um trend line tried to extend it um

[6:48] as best they could from population

[6:50] growth which is probably somewhat

[6:52] predictable based on economy but the uh

[6:55] number of associated increase in flights

[6:58] is a little more difficult uh to um uh

[7:02] really uh get a handle on and it's kind

[7:05] of a slow role as u new perhaps

[7:09] technology and and the new taxi way

[7:11] implementation additional gates and all

[7:13] that kind of stuff and I think that um

[7:15] they're going to explore where they can

[7:18] move capacity up but you know that

[7:20] number is harder to get to um and is not

[7:23] going to increase at the same

[7:25] as the estimated population. So you kind

[7:28] of wonder where it's going to fall in.

[7:29] But whatever is going to happen, we are

[7:31] looking at larger numbers in the area of

[7:33] maybe 10% or perhaps more. Um

[7:37] not too far.

[7:40] When I was reading that, I was sort of

[7:41] thinking about you

[7:44] because it occurred to me that I mean

[7:47] there's only

[7:49] if you're going to

[7:51] million people

[7:55] through the building. That's just

[7:59] the other side.

[8:04] It seems to me like the only way you're

[8:05] going to get more people more people in

[8:09] that airport

[8:18] take off landing or you have to have

[8:21] more land. Well, there going to be more

[8:23] takeoff and landings. I don't think

[8:24] they're going to have I don't think the

[8:26] planes are going to change much, but you

[8:27] will see uh if they can get if they can

[8:29] get their planes off the runways on off

[8:31] the runways more efficiently um and do

[8:34] it safely andor reduce separation due to

[8:37] turbulence and uh utilize uh parallel

[8:40] runways um mixed approaches uh more

[8:43] effectively.

[8:45] >> Uh you know, nextG is coming. Uh the FA

[8:48] » Uh you know, nextG is coming. Uh the FA

[8:48] is well funded to uh continue to move on

[8:50] with that.

[8:51] It's not a direct relationship between

[8:53] technology. Now, there's some

[8:54] limitations there, but uh yeah, there's

[8:57] going to definitely be an increase um

[8:59] for sure. And you can see when they

[9:00] really hit it and they were able to use

[9:02] all their runways effectively parallel

[9:04] or staggered, uh they can increase their

[9:06] numbers up to um you know, they can run

[9:10] as many as

[9:12] one every 60 seconds, one every 45

[9:14] seconds when they're hitting it hard.

[9:16] and um and they want to and if they use

[9:19] all their runways, they can really move

[9:20] that number up a little bit.

[9:23] >> But am I wrong to say that it is

[9:26] » But am I wrong to say that it is

[9:26] contingent on completion of the next gen

[9:32] » which they have? It sounded like that

[9:34] wasn't wholly in place yet. Uh yeah,

[9:37] NextGen has a has a long history of

[9:41] improvements. Uh but some of the taxiway

[9:43] improvements that are in SAMP right now

[9:45] are critical to getting the uh aircraft

[9:48] off the runway more quickly.

[9:49] >> Um and they don't they don't have that

[9:51] » Um and they don't they don't have that

[9:51] capacity right now. They have to run to

[9:52] the ends and that slows things down.

[9:54] They have to cross. Those new taxiways

[9:56] are really the key, one of the key

[9:57] components to getting those uh planes

[10:00] off effectively, efficiently. Plus more

[10:02] open gates so there's no delays. They

[10:04] get right to the gate. They have to wait

[10:05] in gates. backs up. They slow things

[10:08] down. They will slow things down.

[10:11] The other thing that occurred to me

[10:14] was

[10:15] the airlines

[10:32] and I don't why is

[10:35] Of course, one of our big issues is

[10:44] but isn't it again it doesn't I can't

[10:49] imagine that the airlines want to we're

[10:52] going to absorb

[10:54] four more people million more people I

[10:56] don't think they want to tell them oh

[10:58] yeah

[11:01] » well a lot of that is union contracts

[11:04] too that that

[11:05] >> [snorts]

[11:05] » [snorts]

[11:05] >> set that time frame.

[11:06] » set that time frame.

[11:06] >> Sure. Yeah.

[11:09] » Sure. Yeah.

[11:09] So,

[11:11] what we're really saying is that most of

[11:13] those additional operations are going to

[11:15] come,

[11:19] which I guess is probably good for us,

[11:21] but is it even possible?

[11:24] >> Well, they're not up to capacity now.

[11:26] » Well, they're not up to capacity now.

[11:26] The runway is going to take more planes.

[11:28] Uh, so they certainly can run. Imagine

[11:29] if they could run uh um just maybe 10

[11:34] more planes um in um you know they're

[11:37] looking at trying to get the number of

[11:39] flights up late night flights um not

[11:41] changing very much. If you look at the

[11:43] numbers in the studies that's not going

[11:45] to change too much. Um and we need to

[11:47] ensure that that they maintain that um

[11:51] strategy. Uh that's important um as a

[11:54] remedy and um and then uh they can up

[11:57] the number of flights uh per hour. So

[11:59] they're trying to get like you know

[12:01] maybe up to a hundred more flights per

[12:03] day that will make that that will that

[12:05] will hit those estimates. 100 flights

[12:06] per day you're talking about you know a

[12:08] few more per hour uh which is several

[12:11] more you know you know you take another

[12:13] every 15 seconds you might get another

[12:15] flight in. Um and so run on some run

[12:18] some parallel approaches, staggered

[12:20] approaches, mix, you know, when they fly

[12:22] when we're in north flow, we have a lot

[12:24] of south flow landings and takeoffs. Um

[12:27] they're if they can effectively make all

[12:29] that work for them, um they can up that

[12:32] number of flights, but um um and so it's

[12:35] all quite doable. Um whether you can

[12:38] accommodate, you know, 20 more million

[12:41] people is kind of a big question mark to

[12:43] me. Um but um but they can to hit that

[12:46] curve. you know, um I'm hoping that the

[12:49] remedy as we look through the um uh

[12:52] environmental studies that the remedies,

[12:55] and everybody kind of knows my take, the

[12:56] remedy is that we um uh do not allow

[13:01] more flights, that we leave everything

[13:04] um in the way and make it no worse, do

[13:07] no more harm until we have solid studies

[13:10] on sound um uh pollution, health effects

[13:14] um that can be um highly um uh that are

[13:20] that are based on scientific evidence

[13:22] that if that it's not going to create

[13:23] more harm for the community. And until

[13:25] that's done, we should not be increasing

[13:27] flights any more flights. Um and that

[13:30] would be um that would be a remedy.

[13:33] You'll note that, you know, we're

[13:34] starting this starting these um uh

[13:37] appeals, but there were no remedies in

[13:39] any of the documents that I saw. Um so

[13:42] I'm hoping to provide feedback. The

[13:44] remedy you would you would advocate is

[13:48] is no more

[13:49] >> do more do no more harm, right?

[13:51] » do more do no more harm, right?

[13:51] >> Yeah. I think let's

[13:52] » Yeah. I think let's

[13:52] >> if you want to build a new terminal, be

[13:54] » if you want to build a new terminal, be

[13:54] my guest.

[13:55] >> Prove that it's not going to harm folks

[13:58] » Prove that it's not going to harm folks

[13:58] healthwise.

[13:59] >> Yeah.

[14:00] » Yeah.

[14:00] >> Um anymore.

[14:01] » Um anymore.

[14:01] >> Is there any is there any usefulness in

[14:04] » Is there any is there any usefulness in

[14:04] asking the question,

[14:07] is it even necessary?

[14:10] I mean, if

[14:13] if it's dependent if that extra 100

[14:16] flights a day is dependent on the next

[14:19] gen being completed

[14:21] and we really you say it's well but

[14:24] given the circumstances we have right

[14:28] now the fact that any reasonable person

[14:30] could look at that and say regardless of

[14:32] who's in charge there's still going to

[14:34] be problems

[14:37] can we count on nextg being done

[14:40] at the time when all these come online.

[14:44] >> Well, NextGen's already well deep into,

[14:46] » Well, NextGen's already well deep into,

[14:46] you know, maturity. So, um I they've

[14:49] already they've already reduced

[14:51] separation standards. Um they've already

[14:54] um uh they're putting new surface

[14:56] surveillance system and CATX has some of

[14:57] the best around uh that allow them to uh

[15:00] really tighten up the number of flights

[15:02] and um but wake turbulence distances

[15:05] still need to be maintained. You can't

[15:06] fix and change that. Um but they can get

[15:09] the um flow metrics uh really precise.

[15:13] >> Well, let me sharpen up the question

[15:15] » Well, let me sharpen up the question

[15:15] right now. Sometimes

[15:18] brushing my teeth and I can look out

[15:22] and I see two airplanes. [clears throat]

[15:25] I look at it.

[15:30] » When am I going to be looking out there

[15:32] and see?

[15:34] you know, they are um they are

[15:36] authorized for triple approaches. Um

[15:39] they don't do it very often because it's

[15:40] hard to get the planes off the runway,

[15:41] all three of them off the runway at the

[15:43] same time. So, they can't really hit

[15:44] that fast. But in the summertime, you'll

[15:45] note that when it's really good weather,

[15:47] uh the winds are light uh to none. Um

[15:50] they um they have done triple

[15:52] approaches. If you look at the data,

[15:53] they've done triple approaches before,

[15:55] so it does happen. Or or the two and

[15:57] then one staggered behind it. You'll see

[15:59] that happen. Um the mix though is you

[16:02] can have planes coming and when they're

[16:03] really hitting it, they can land north

[16:05] and south at the same time and just

[16:08] stagger them in um as best they can. And

[16:10] when they get these new taxi ways in, I

[16:12] think they're going to explore how to do

[16:13] that more effectively. So um you know,

[16:17] >> so they could do a lot of these

[16:18] » so they could do a lot of these

[16:18] improvements they [clears throat] could

[16:20] go ahead and do. They could put in

[16:21] >> they don't need nextg right now. I mean,

[16:23] » they don't need nextg right now. I mean,

[16:23] >> yeah, they could do the additional taxi

[16:24] » yeah, they could do the additional taxi

[16:24] rays and and they have the land and they

[16:27] could even start on the new terminal. um

[16:29] which would alleviate because how many

[16:31] times I mean I you get in there I mean I

[16:33] so last week I I date down and back to

[16:36] San Jose I'm in the new D terminal and

[16:39] go down there and I go this is odd and

[16:42] guess what we hopped on a bus when and I

[16:46] go really you know and and uh what is

[16:50] yeah and and then um

[16:54] and then down in San Jose was

[16:56] interesting we were the last flight out

[16:58] now I realized they have other airports

[17:00] in the area was 5:00 p.m. in the in the

[17:03] second terminal. We were the last that

[17:05] was that was it. I would have taken a

[17:06] 7:00 flight home. If it was at 7, they

[17:09] rush back and to get on that 5:00 flight

[17:12] and then done.

[17:14] >> That's it.

[17:16] » That's it.

[17:16] Um uh so I think we have a um

[17:21] a pretty big challenge um in trying to

[17:24] maintain um a remedy like no more

[17:27] flights or slot that slot system at

[17:30] other airports use it that don't allow

[17:31] any more flights. It's a hard hard

[17:33] number. We don't CAC does not have a

[17:36] hard number.

[17:36] >> Why can't we that's what we're here for

[17:39] » Why can't we that's what we're here for

[17:39] and you certainly I mean as a as one

[17:41] remedy

[17:42] >> it sounds like the message is that this

[17:46] » it sounds like the message is that this

[17:46] isn't something that's out

[17:50] what I'm hearing you say this isn't out

[17:51] in the future you know. Oh, no. They

[17:53] >> This is stuff they do right now.

[17:54] » This is stuff they do right now.

[17:54] Something. So,

[17:56] >> yeah. I mean, look at look at the

[17:57] » yeah. I mean, look at look at the

[17:57] summertime. I mean, they're really

[17:58] hitting it. I've counted planes coming

[18:00] every 45 seconds. I mean, they are

[18:01] really hitting. Absolutely.

[18:03] >> Um and and running up, you know, to you

[18:05] » Um and and running up, you know, to you

[18:06] know, over 2,000 flights a day,

[18:08] something like that. Um and they can

[18:09] really hit it hard. Uh when things are

[18:11] just running well, you just hope for bad

[18:14] weather all the time. And I will always

[18:15] keep it nice and slow. [laughter]

[18:18] >> So, half the year we're Okay. If we're

[18:21] » So, half the year we're Okay. If we're

[18:21] out in front of the public talking to

[18:23] our citizens, then the message is this

[18:25] is something that's

[18:27] now

[18:31] future. This is what they're planning to

[18:32] do sometimes.

[18:36] This is going to start with

[18:41] » Yes, I think we need to do something

[18:43] now. Um and um and hopefully um as it'd

[18:48] be interesting to hear how the lawyers

[18:49] think of a strategy and work the

[18:51] strategy strategic issues once they um

[18:53] once they be because I think they kind

[18:55] of know what's coming. I think you can

[18:57] pretty much understand what going to be

[18:59] in the EIS's um and start talking about

[19:02] what some of those remedies may be.

[19:04] There are certainly other things that we

[19:06] want to take care of trees and noise

[19:08] abatement um and funding for all those

[19:11] things

[19:12] >> and reduce it but but not reducing the

[19:14] » and reduce it but but not reducing the

[19:14] number of flights but keeping it the

[19:16] same um and do no more harm. Seems like

[19:20] a a good, you know, that would be a good

[19:22] goal to

[19:23] >> Well, and they're talking about traffic.

[19:25] » Well, and they're talking about traffic.

[19:25] So, if one of their improvements is um

[19:30] additional employee parking, plus you

[19:33] you do have the light rail now that goes

[19:35] all the way down to Federal Way. So,

[19:38] that's a mitigation.

[19:40] >> Mitigating that, right? Traffic is being

[19:41] » Mitigating that, right? Traffic is being

[19:41] mitigated. And so I'm not a traffic

[19:43] expert, but it seems like some of these

[19:45] mitigations are being [snorts]

[19:47] addressed. Increased traffic. Um, you

[19:50] know, what's not being addressed is

[19:51] increased, you know, air traffic.

[19:53] >> Yeah. But I like your point, Joe, that

[19:55] » Yeah. But I like your point, Joe, that

[19:55] uh do we really know where these

[19:59] the the additional

[20:01] demand is because gosh, how many

[20:05] airports have we all been to where all

[20:06] of a sudden the hub goes away? You know,

[20:08] have you ever been out to Louisville?

[20:09] That was where um some I can't remember

[20:13] who was originally anchored there or St.

[20:15] Louis you know just tons of capacity

[20:18] empty airports um you know compared to

[20:21] what we got here

[20:22] >> well one of the

[20:23] » well one of the

[20:23] >> but it could change

[20:25] » but it could change

[20:25] >> I think when I when I first started with

[20:28] » I think when I when I first started with

[20:28] start there was an representative at the

[20:32] general meetings

[20:33] >> okay

[20:34] » okay

[20:34] >> maybe even

[20:36] » maybe even

[20:36] not so policy but I don't see airport

[20:42] theory

[20:44] and I think one of the the key things

[20:48] and and I don't even know

[20:51] how this is how you would even get the

[20:54] number but I imagine that in the

[20:56] boardroom someplace when they're you

[20:58] know Alaska Airlines here you know how

[21:00] many seats are we going to dedicate to

[21:04] this airport whether they're talking

[21:05] about Oakland or SeaTac or or

[21:10] Juno or whatever. He said, "How many

[21:12] seats do we need

[21:15] uh in that market area to suck up all

[21:18] you know to absorb all the demand?"

[21:21] >> But I there there has to be some

[21:23] » But I there there has to be some

[21:23] connection there between

[21:26] um

[21:28] what the airlines are

[21:30] >> asking for.

[21:31] » asking for.

[21:31] >> Asking for exactly that's the word I'm

[21:33] » Asking for exactly that's the word I'm

[21:34] what are they asking? Uh and and I've

[21:37] never it would be nice to be able to ask

[21:39] that question.

[21:41] Is there a line outside your door from

[21:43] the airlines asking, you know, waiting,

[21:45] you know, demanding more

[21:49] operations at CTAC airport?

[21:51] >> I I wouldn't be surprised because just

[21:53] » I I wouldn't be surprised because just

[21:53] anecdotally traveling a lot for business

[21:54] and and for family and stuff, I mean, I

[21:57] fly Alaska exclusively. Every single

[22:00] flight is full.

[22:01] >> Yeah, our planes are packed. Not not

[22:02] » Yeah, our planes are packed. Not not

[22:02] even not not even just to like you know

[22:05] like I couple weeks ago to Atlanta you

[22:08] know where they only have like two

[22:10] flights a day but even back last month I

[22:13] flew directly uh to Oklahoma City right

[22:17] >> full

[22:18] » full

[22:18] >> you know even to a smaller city to

[22:19] » you know even to a smaller city to

[22:19] Oklahoma City

[22:20] >> I know right

[22:21] » I know right

[22:21] >> you get off the plane and you start

[22:22] » you get off the plane and you start

[22:22] wandering around Oklahoma City and

[22:24] there's no one there's like why was this

[22:26] plane so full

[22:27] >> but um

[22:28] » but um

[22:28] >> well in southwest when I was in Chicago

[22:30] » well in southwest when I was in Chicago

[22:30] I always flew southwest And it was

[22:32] always I mean they got it really down.

[22:34] They were packed. And you're right about

[22:37] uh um midweek to San Jose where I mean

[22:41] why are we you know it was a full I I

[22:44] would I would think that I think that

[22:45] the demand is there. You can just tell

[22:47] by the number of folks moving through

[22:49] the system. Um and if you require with

[22:52] the airlines they're going to say yeah

[22:53] and we want to fly more core hours too.

[22:56] Um, you know, they they probably do

[22:58] prefer to fly um uh as soon as more

[23:02] approaches, get those planes filled up

[23:04] and um and run.

[23:07] >> But it would be but it would be

[23:08] » But it would be but it would be

[23:08] interesting to look at Delta and Alaska

[23:10] and and kind of get under go behind the

[23:12] numbers and see really is this how this

[23:15] is being done and then the Hawaii

[23:17] merger. You know,

[23:17] >> I think there's a reason why they don't

[23:18] » I think there's a reason why they don't

[23:18] show up to meetings. They're not going

[23:20] to tell you those numbers. Yeah,

[23:24] >> they may not feel they have much to add

[23:26] » they may not feel they have much to add

[23:26] to the conversation starting

[23:30] control like they're trying to increase

[23:32] capacity, but I feel like

[23:35] >> you mean a number of controllers.

[23:36] » you mean a number of controllers.

[23:36] >> Yeah.

[23:37] » Yeah.

[23:37] >> Oh, sure. That's a problem.

[23:38] » Oh, sure. That's a problem.

[23:38] >> Yeah.

[23:39] » Yeah.

[23:39] >> Yeah. But that's a fix. That's that's

[23:41] » Yeah. But that's a fix. That's that's

[23:41] that is and that has caused a number of

[23:44] delays, right? Um you know, and it does

[23:47] I'm sure that affects capacity too. The

[23:49] number flights that You only have so

[23:51] many controllers. You can't handle as

[23:53] many flights.

[23:57] » But if you follow, you know, you're

[23:59] exactly right. And so we're in a we're

[24:01] kind of in a a period of time where

[24:02] they're really struggling, but um

[24:04] there's a big plan to hire train um

[24:07] that's massively coming on. You can see

[24:09] that. And again, the Pearson is very

[24:11] well funded in the current government

[24:13] situation. one of the few government

[24:14] agencies that are you can if you read uh

[24:17] carefully you'll see they're buying an

[24:18] enormous amount of technology new

[24:21] technology the complaints always been

[24:23] there telecommunications is old some of

[24:26] the equipment is quite old reliable but

[24:28] old um and uh they plan on fixing all

[24:31] that so there's going to be a lot of

[24:34] ability to get get out of that problem

[24:37] not enough control

[24:39] >> so is that the fall

[24:44] equipment failed. is that was a tele

[24:47] that was that was a telecommunication

[24:48] problem um with the uh with the

[24:51] providers

[24:53] um not the FAA equipment but the

[24:55] providers of the intercommunication

[24:57] systems um that's extremely complex

[25:00] right you got satellites you got fiber

[25:01] lines and you got it goes through all

[25:02] sorts of cities and it got tangled up um

[25:05] um but they're they're trying to redo

[25:07] all that with more redundancy so um that

[25:10] should be getting better so I think all

[25:12] the all the things are in place to

[25:13] support um um you know more um capacity

[25:17] a more efficient um operation if they

[25:20] can. So our again we are challenged to

[25:23] um

[25:24] >> so what we can do keep that down.

[25:27] » so what we can do keep that down.

[25:27] >> Do we want to we need to pass this

[25:31] » Do we want to we need to pass this

[25:31] >> let's hit one more let's is there any

[25:34] » let's hit one more let's is there any

[25:34] more discussion on the samp here?

[25:35] >> Well I handed out a flyer that I made

[25:38] » Well I handed out a flyer that I made

[25:38] that talks about the process between the

[25:40] NEPA and TIFA. Um, it includes dates

[25:43] that went to council and things like

[25:44] that just so that if you're aware if you

[25:46] wanted to be aware of

[25:48] >> the stuff in the past and expected

[25:50] » the stuff in the past and expected

[25:50] dates, but I just put those together and

[25:52] wanted to provide it for you if you have

[25:53] any questions. I'm happy to

[25:56] >> answer any.

[25:57] » answer any.

[25:57] >> Okay. So, everybody can take a look at

[25:59] » Okay. So, everybody can take a look at

[25:59] those. Uh, we have some uh

[26:03] complaints

[26:05] here. Frankly, I didn't get a chance to

[26:07] take a look at these. Is there anything

[26:10] Was there anything in here that we

[26:13] >> So, the new part in here includes the

[26:15] » So, the new part in here includes the

[26:15] what you guys had talked about a draft

[26:17] response to the complaints and that's on

[26:19] the second page.

[26:20] >> All right.

[26:20] » All right.

[26:20] >> Um, so that one's got includes a a kind

[26:24] » Um, so that one's got includes a a kind

[26:24] of a generic

[26:26] >> response that we can't if if you guys

[26:28] » response that we can't if if you guys

[26:28] want us to when you guys get emails that

[26:32] um we can respond for general. Thank you

[26:35] for reaching out. Um

[26:39] >> yeah, I wrote this up. Um Yep. Yeah. And

[26:42] » yeah, I wrote this up. Um Yep. Yeah. And

[26:42] so, um and uh you know, was

[26:45] without a tremendous amount of thought.

[26:48] Uh [laughter]

[26:49] um well, because I I I really wanted the

[26:51] group here to um help me uh get the

[26:55] right words um and um with the right uh

[26:59] type of feedback. I mean, we can and I I

[27:02] think attached to this is also um an

[27:04] analysis of one of Mrs. Hugh's um Miss

[27:08] Hughes um issues and again she had a

[27:11] second email um that she had and she is

[27:14] um you know zealous

[27:16] >> um and is concerned

[27:18] » um and is concerned

[27:18] >> planes I mean the the whether they take

[27:21] » planes I mean the the whether they take

[27:21] off or land is is a wind issue and it

[27:23] happens both ways. I mean she sounded

[27:26] like they only land

[27:28] >> Yeah. I don't think she appreciates that

[27:30] » Yeah. I don't think she appreciates that

[27:30] they can run a dual operation, north and

[27:32] south flow. Um um in terms of landing

[27:36] and takeoffs, um it's not just if the

[27:38] winds uh you know southerntherly,

[27:40] they're not just going to do south flow,

[27:43] they'll include north flow as well. Um

[27:45] and I think she's I think she um

[27:47] observes some of that. Um and then I did

[27:50] an analysis of the w high winds and when

[27:53] they would change flows and they're

[27:54] changing every time the wind is hitting

[27:56] it. So, it's it's not like the FAA is

[27:59] not doing what they um probably need to

[28:02] do to keep the operation safe and

[28:03] efficient. Um, but she makes some she

[28:06] makes some comments about um about the

[28:09] um night flights where she's concerned.

[28:12] Um and that's an area we can continue to

[28:14] focus on. And then there aren't that

[28:16] many night flights though. Night flights

[28:18] do seem to all contained um running to

[28:20] the quiet quiet skies initiative.

[28:22] >> One to five.

[28:23] » One to five.

[28:23] >> Yeah, it's it's quite low. Um and Um,

[28:27] » Yeah, it's it's quite low. Um and Um,

[28:28] and I don't um I don't see many um if

[28:31] any um you know increase in that after

[28:34] little bit after midnight and then

[28:35] pretty then it really drops down.

[28:37] >> No, you're right. It drops down by 1 in

[28:38] » No, you're right. It drops down by 1 in

[28:38] the morning. It's really quiet until 5.

[28:40] But after between five and six, man,

[28:42] they start spinning up like crazy and it

[28:45] you'll you'll hear them, right? And

[28:46] they'll start running full capacity

[28:47] wherever they can get to get the day

[28:50] going.

[28:52] Um, so, uh, I do think it's a good idea

[28:55] to provide some feedback for folks that

[28:56] >> Yeah.

[28:57] » Yeah.

[28:57] >> um, that mail in and get get these get

[29:00] » um, that mail in and get get these get

[29:00] our residents to get their complaints to

[29:02] the right organization.

[29:04] Go to the site that I mentioned. You can

[29:06] actually pick out the plane that's

[29:07] annoying you and um, and and I could do

[29:11] some additional work around some of the

[29:13] complaints. Um, we'll see what comes in

[29:15] to see if there's any value to that.

[29:17] >> Okay. So the immediate question for the

[29:19] » Okay. So the immediate question for the

[29:19] group is uh

[29:22] the form letter. Are we okay with the

[29:24] form letter

[29:25] >> with the three points?

[29:30] » Are you talking about that or are you

[29:31] talking about Jeff's form?

[29:32] >> This is the email response to the

[29:34] » This is the email response to the

[29:34] concern.

[29:35] >> Oh yeah.

[29:36] » Oh yeah.

[29:36] >> Um if you'll read that over. Um you know

[29:38] » Um if you'll read that over. Um you know

[29:38] I really wanted your words. I don't want

[29:40] to want to

[29:42] >> I'm speaking pretty much myself here but

[29:44] » I'm speaking pretty much myself here but

[29:44] um it's pretty generic, right?

[29:45] >> It is. It's generic. Yeah, I didn't see

[29:47] » It is. It's generic. Yeah, I didn't see

[29:47] anything offending here.

[29:48] >> You know, it

[29:50] » You know, it

[29:50] make sure that our residents know that

[29:52] we are concerned, we're paying

[29:54] attention. Um, and get them to the right

[29:56] folks to to

[29:58] >> So, what is what is the noise program

[29:59] » So, what is what is the noise program

[29:59] office do other than just send them a

[30:01] thing? Thank you. We

[30:03] >> Well, the noise the noise pro it's not

[30:06] » Well, the noise the noise pro it's not

[30:06] the noise program. the um the FAA and

[30:09] the um uh and the um

[30:13] uh primarily the FAA, Port of Seattle,

[30:16] they both have they both have websites

[30:17] where you can make complaints um

[30:19] officially and you can get official

[30:22] responses back um on significant

[30:26] concerns about noise particularly if you

[30:28] identify flight numbers and all that

[30:30] kind of stuff and they will uh respond.

[30:33] Uh it takes a really long time for them

[30:35] to respond. I don't think it's been

[30:37] satisfactory to the residents the type

[30:39] of response they get, but that's the

[30:41] official place to go and um you know, we

[30:44] shouldn't be issuing official responses

[30:46] for for those organizations.

[30:47] >> No.

[30:48] » No.

[30:48] >> And I'm sure Miss Hughes is not going to

[30:50] » And I'm sure Miss Hughes is not going to

[30:50] be satisfied with whatever answer she

[30:52] gets because they're not they're going

[30:54] to tell her.

[30:54] >> Yeah. Right.

[30:55] » Yeah. Right.

[30:55] >> You know,

[30:56] » You know,

[30:56] >> it's loud. It's absolut It's certainly

[30:57] » it's loud. It's absolut It's certainly

[30:57] loud over her house and there are

[30:59] certainly many planes flying over house

[31:00] and I think she notes when the wind

[31:02] changes you definitely get a different

[31:04] mix of aircraft. Um and she's closer to

[31:07] um the outer let's see is it the outer

[31:09] runway? Um yeah the outer runway. So

[31:12] when they're running a mix configuration

[31:13] particularly when she thinks everything

[31:14] should be going um on um on north flow

[31:18] they may be doing um takeoffs on that

[31:21] runway as well which is which is really

[31:23] loud. Right. When you're in three miles

[31:25] takeoffs are the most loud. Outside

[31:26] three miles it's a little quieter

[31:28] because they get up and they they are

[31:30] getting up fast. Um um but in in close

[31:34] six miles out they're on final approach.

[31:35] They're 3,000 ft and going down. So it's

[31:39] and it's pretty noisy as they get in

[31:41] within three miles on landing. That's

[31:43] that's the rough part for the people

[31:44] that live south.

[31:45] >> So So Jeff, you wrote her the I mean you

[31:47] » So So Jeff, you wrote her the I mean you

[31:48] prepared this. I mean this goes on and

[31:50] on. This is very thorough.

[31:51] >> Yeah. I actually did a detailed analysis

[31:53] » Yeah. I actually did a detailed analysis

[31:53] of of u misuse um uh concerns. Um, and

[31:58] then I wrote uh in red what my uh what

[32:00] my responses were and um and we don't

[32:03] need to go into details here.

[32:05] >> No, but I can if you guys are good I can

[32:06] » No, but I can if you guys are good I can

[32:06] send this to her and I can even say it

[32:08] was put together by a committee member.

[32:09] That way it's not official city.

[32:11] >> Yeah, we should just make sure that we

[32:13] » Yeah, we should just make sure that we

[32:13] that it is not an official response.

[32:15] This is a

[32:17] >> these are our concerns and and it

[32:18] » these are our concerns and and it

[32:18] doesn't address

[32:19] >> we don't need a formal motion or

[32:21] » we don't need a formal motion or

[32:21] anything like that.

[32:22] No, I just wanted to make sure you guys

[32:23] were okay with the form letter that he

[32:24] put together that when I get a

[32:26] complaint, I'll respond with this and

[32:27] then we'll still forward you all the

[32:29] emails that come to you. Anyways,

[32:30] >> we can look flip them over and get a

[32:32] » we can look flip them over and get a

[32:32] sense of what's going on and do more

[32:33] with them or

[32:34] >> and the first two pages are obviously

[32:36] » and the first two pages are obviously

[32:36] the ones you did get forwarded. So,

[32:37] that's all that's in the packet there.

[32:40] >> So, for the next few minutes,

[32:43] » So, for the next few minutes,

[32:43] >> thank you.

[32:43] » thank you.

[32:43] >> We have here

[32:45] » We have here

[32:45] >> um we've got on the back of our here's

[32:49] » um we've got on the back of our here's

[32:49] the uh the write up of discussion from

[32:53] last uh last last meeting. So I want to

[32:56] make sure before this uh goes to council

[33:00] that this is what we want to say. So

[33:04] I'll let's open up the discussion.

[33:07] Give me your thoughts,

[33:10] concerns.

[33:12] I mean

[33:12] >> I think it's great.

[33:16] Do we need to add anything?

[33:21] » Greg Miller,

[33:23] >> I think you guys talked about doing a

[33:25] » I think you guys talked about doing a

[33:25] survey and that and you guys are talking

[33:29] a lot about engaging with citizens and

[33:31] that's a very small part of this. So if

[33:33] you guys want to discuss that and have

[33:35] council formally approve that, you'll

[33:37] want to include that in your work plan.

[33:40] >> And Joe, how did your discussion go with

[33:42] » And Joe, how did your discussion go with

[33:42] um who did you have a chance to speak to

[33:44] them about putting on some sort of

[33:45] public discussion.

[33:46] >> Yes, I talked to Captain Let me give you

[33:49] » Yes, I talked to Captain Let me give you

[33:49] the update on that.

[33:50] >> Great. Yeah, we uh generally u thought

[33:54] » Great. Yeah, we uh generally u thought

[33:54] it was a a good idea, but there are some

[33:57] steps that we have to still take and

[33:58] that's one. Uh there's there'll be

[34:00] questions about the open public meeting,

[34:04] how that fits into a citizens or if it

[34:07] applies. So,

[34:09] there will be again she wants talked to

[34:13] the council. I think she's actually

[34:14] talked to the council about maybe

[34:18] discussing all the citizens advisor

[34:21] groups

[34:22] >> and creating a set of you know

[34:24] » and creating a set of you know

[34:24] guidelines

[34:25] >> operating procedures.

[34:26] » operating procedures.

[34:26] >> Yeah. Yeah. And and personally I I do

[34:29] » Yeah. Yeah. And and personally I I do

[34:29] have a problem with this being a public

[34:30] facing group. I do not think we should

[34:32] be a public facing group.

[34:33] >> Yeah.

[34:34] » Yeah.

[34:34] >> So

[34:34] » So

[34:34] >> so so that's um

[34:37] » so so that's um

[34:37] >> Yeah. So, um I um you know there are

[34:40] » Yeah. So, um I um you know there are

[34:40] some certainly some really good points

[34:41] to it where the public gets a chance to

[34:44] speak to folks that and um perhaps more

[34:47] openly from the official folks could say

[34:49] what's uh within their domain probably

[34:51] officially.

[34:52] >> Steve, what if we if we had something

[34:54] » Steve, what if we if we had something

[34:54] was a I mean we we maybe every other

[34:57] meeting we

[34:58] >> Well, I just think I I don't know how

[35:00] » Well, I just think I I don't know how

[35:00] productive it's going to be. I think

[35:01] we're going to get a lot of people and

[35:03] like I was telling Joe, it's going to

[35:04] turn into a gripe

[35:06] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[35:06] » Yeah. Yeah.

[35:06] >> session. I used

[35:08] » session. I used

[35:08] >> I used I used a different word than

[35:09] » I used I used a different word than

[35:09] that. Um but um and we're going to get

[35:13] the we're going to get people in. It's

[35:14] like the the lizard people run the FAA

[35:17] and it gave me brain cancer, right?

[35:20] >> You know, and I I have a feeling that's

[35:22] » You know, and I I have a feeling that's

[35:22] what it's going to devolve into. I I

[35:25] think if we do a public-f facing

[35:26] meeting, it has to be something very

[35:29] specific or we go out to groups who are

[35:33] already engaged. You know, civic groups

[35:35] like Rotary or something that are

[35:37] already engaged in the community. But

[35:39] >> this is a public facing meeting. We just

[35:41] » this is a public facing meeting. We just

[35:41] don't have a public comment section in

[35:42] the agenda. It's open to the public.

[35:44] >> I know, but there's not like this, you

[35:46] » I know, but there's not like this, you

[35:46] know, here here's all of our here's all

[35:48] of our complaints, right? But do you

[35:50] think that um it would add value for the

[35:53] residents to feel as if they have a a

[35:56] forum where they can at least speak? Um

[35:59] >> not not when we we can't show immediate

[36:03] » not not when we we can't show immediate

[36:03] responses to them. They're going to say,

[36:05] "Oh, I come to the meeting all the time

[36:06] and I complain and I don't get

[36:08] >> we have to make sure the focus is around

[36:10] » we have to make sure the focus is around

[36:10] information um dissemination of things

[36:14] that we know and understand. maybe some

[36:16] basic education about um some pollution

[36:19] issues and noise issues um in general

[36:22] terms um and level of field there and

[36:25] they can give feedback but when they do

[36:27] have specific complaints I do think it

[36:29] can I do think your concerns are very

[36:32] well justified. We have to find a way to

[36:34] avoid that by having themes for the

[36:37] particular meetings I think very clearly

[36:39] um and lay out some really general

[36:41] guidelines but that is a concern.

[36:42] >> Yeah.

[36:43] » Yeah.

[36:43] >> Well okay for for the discussion let's

[36:46] » Well okay for for the discussion let's

[36:46] Is that one of our should that be on our

[36:49] list of things we might want to provide

[36:50] here as

[36:52] >> yeah this is working for let's go to say

[36:57] » yeah this is working for let's go to say

[36:57] maybe to the other end where we are not

[37:02] facing group it's just council considers

[37:04] us we are the citizens

[37:06] >> we are the citizens

[37:07] » we are the citizens

[37:07] >> citizen advisories and our charge is to

[37:10] » citizen advisories and our charge is to

[37:10] sit here and discuss this like we do and

[37:15] come up with

[37:17] I'm trying to look the right word. It's

[37:19] almost like a position paper or you know

[37:21] your citizens all five of us think that

[37:24] the city should

[37:28] >> whatever.

[37:28] » whatever.

[37:28] >> Yeah. I I look at it as

[37:30] » Yeah. I I look at it as

[37:30] >> and we forward that to the city council

[37:32] » and we forward that to the city council

[37:32] and they look at

[37:34] >> or hear from the residents. I want to

[37:36] » or hear from the residents. I want to

[37:36] hear for that's why the survey perhaps

[37:38] these public meetings gives us more um

[37:40] engagement with the community so we have

[37:43] um a wider field of view for their

[37:45] concerns which we can um um distill into

[37:49] some some some additional policy

[37:51] guidance to

[37:51] >> Yeah. I I just think with us we're not

[37:53] » Yeah. I I just think with us we're not

[37:54] the council we're not public employees

[37:57] >> that that feedback needs to be going

[37:59] » that that feedback needs to be going

[37:59] through the council and not through

[38:02] someone. I I guess when what when I

[38:04] think about our group is that we're

[38:07] we're going through the SAMP and we're

[38:09] going through all this stuff and saying,

[38:10] "Hey, city council, do you know this?"

[38:12] And the city council needs to be showing

[38:14] us leadership and saying, "Hey, we need

[38:17] you all to delve into this. We don't

[38:19] fully understand this, right?" And and

[38:24] you know, I see us having a u um you

[38:27] know, a a regular spot on the city

[38:30] council agenda to, you know, to educate

[38:33] the council on, hey, here's what this

[38:36] stuff is saying. Here's what you wanted

[38:38] us to know about. You know, you you

[38:40] wanted us to uh to dive into and and

[38:43] give you our take on these things. So

[38:46] maybe what we could do instead of this

[38:47] one at the bottom is that a bullet point

[38:49] and what I've written together kind of

[38:50] is engage with citizens for additional

[38:53] information and understanding of

[38:54] community concerns including through

[38:56] surveys or one-on-one communication.

[38:59] >> Yeah. Yeah. I think we just sort of

[39:00] » Yeah. Yeah. I think we just sort of

[39:00] worked that. Yeah.

[39:02] >> I I

[39:06] think we just have to be careful about

[39:09] in other words the city council is going

[39:11] to go out and hire some experts. So they

[39:15] wants to dive deeply into

[39:20] a particular factor

[39:23] of the NEA for

[39:27] the sa for the sample. I I'm not sure

[39:30] that they're going to come to us and

[39:31] say, "Hey, take a look at this. Tell us

[39:33] what you think." I think they're to

[39:35] their experts.

[39:36] >> So, I'm not sure that

[39:40] » So, I'm not sure that

[39:40] >> that is going to be part of our charge.

[39:43] » that is going to be part of our charge.

[39:43] >> This gets right to the right to the

[39:45] » This gets right to the right to the

[39:45] heart of what our organization um here

[39:47] is really for. Um and um and I don't

[39:51] think we've defined it completely yet um

[39:54] well enough. Um I'm just I think

[39:56] exploring ideas like public engagement

[39:59] um might be just one of the things we

[40:01] could add value on. I don't think that

[40:02] that was done with the previous advisory

[40:05] um committee or I'm not sure. Um Joey,

[40:07] I'm asking you.

[40:09] >> I'm not sure.

[40:10] » I'm not sure.

[40:10] >> Yeah. But I would like to do something

[40:11] » Yeah. But I would like to do something

[40:11] successful um and um

[40:14] But you're concerned about you know how

[40:16] it would devolve into just a griping

[40:18] session. uh certainly would come up

[40:20] quickly and I think for if we are nimble

[40:23] we might be able to deal with that but

[40:24] it' be great to hear from them and also

[40:26] share um you know share some details

[40:29] about um real estate concerns and I can

[40:31] share a little bit about what I know

[40:32] about um airport operations um in a

[40:34] non-official way um and have an open

[40:37] discussion just as citizens together

[40:40] >> um and it could add some value I think

[40:42] » um and it could add some value I think

[40:42] um but

[40:44] >> well that's what I was thinking maybe if

[40:45] » well that's what I was thinking maybe if

[40:45] we did let's say quarter quarterly We we

[40:49] have two meetings of of our own and then

[40:53] the third meeting um we we are open. I I

[40:57] I think particularly with everything

[40:59] coming down the shoot quickly and time

[41:02] pressures that it's ask question.

[41:06] Do you have any idea what timeline

[41:09] means?

[41:13] So by the time we get through the NEPA

[41:16] appeal and then we go through the whole

[41:18] process. I guess what I'm trying to

[41:20] gauge is how long

[41:23] >> do that if we're going to be going out

[41:25] » do that if we're going to be going out

[41:25] and explaining.

[41:26] >> Yeah.

[41:26] » Yeah.

[41:26] >> How many meetings should we

[41:28] » How many meetings should we

[41:28] >> Right. Right. NEPA.

[41:29] » Right. Right. NEPA.

[41:29] >> It took them, let's see, on the Nepa, it

[41:31] » It took them, let's see, on the Nepa, it

[41:32] took them

[41:34] I'm trying to think of how long it took

[41:36] them from the

[41:38] draft close to

[41:42] the um

[41:46] took him about nine

[41:49] six to nine months to respond to all the

[41:52] comments. So assuming it takes the same

[41:55] amount of time to respond to all the SEA

[41:57] comments, you know, and it's supposed to

[41:59] come out in around quarter 1. I'm

[42:01] hearing rumors of spring. I don't know

[42:03] if where those rumors came from, so I

[42:05] can't confirm those rumors. So

[42:09] >> 26 or

[42:10] » 26 or

[42:10] >> Yeah. No, quarter 1 to 2020 or 26 is

[42:13] » Yeah. No, quarter 1 to 2020 or 26 is

[42:13] when this the draft EIS is supposed to

[42:15] come out.

[42:17] >> Um, we have been told we'll get 30 days

[42:19] » Um, we have been told we'll get 30 days

[42:19] notice. So, I can guarantee you it's not

[42:20] coming out on the 1 of January because

[42:22] we haven't been given 30 days notice

[42:24] yet. Um, so then there'll be a comment

[42:27] period. We don't know. Again, we've been

[42:29] asking for them to give us more comment

[42:30] period time than before. I've been

[42:32] begging them to give us 30 days. I don't

[42:34] think that's going to happen, but we'll

[42:36] get something like 15 to 20 day comment

[42:38] period. Um, and then they need to

[42:42] however time it takes them to respond to

[42:44] all those comments before they release

[42:45] the final EIS. That could be anywhere

[42:48] from if they really have enough experts

[42:50] a month, but it took them about nine

[42:53] months to do it on the NEPA. So, if

[42:56] we're assuming nine around nine months,

[42:58] we're going to be looking at a final EIS

[43:00] towards the end of the year.

[43:02] >> Although, because so much of it has been

[43:04] » Although, because so much of it has been

[43:04] covered before, I think they probably

[43:05] are going to take advantage that could

[43:07] be sped up a little bit. I wouldn't

[43:08] expect it to take that long. Do you

[43:09] think they're going to have a public um

[43:12] forum where much like the port did? They

[43:14] have to have a public meeting as part of

[43:16] the draft EIS.

[43:17] >> That's the port commission.

[43:19] » That's the port commission.

[43:20] >> The port is doing it. The port is doing

[43:22] » The port is doing it. The port is doing

[43:22] the SEIPA where the FAA did the NEPA.

[43:24] >> So those meetings will take place down.

[43:27] » So those meetings will take place down.

[43:27] >> I'm sure they'll do No, I'm sure they'll

[43:28] » I'm sure they'll do No, I'm sure they'll

[43:28] do what they did for the NEPA and

[43:30] they'll have three. They'll have one

[43:32] around here at least the open houses and

[43:34] things like that.

[43:36] >> So what I'm hearing you say is there's

[43:37] » So what I'm hearing you say is there's

[43:38] going to be 12 meetings

[43:41] with this group.

[43:43] we will be

[43:45] [clears throat]

[43:46] >> for the end of the process.

[43:50] » for the end of the process.

[43:50] >> So that gives us some idea.

[43:52] » So that gives us some idea.

[43:52] >> So there could be a I mean one of the

[43:54] » So there could be a I mean one of the

[43:54] one or two of those could be maybe first

[43:58] one see how it goes.

[44:00] >> It's a cluster. We'll we won't do that

[44:02] » It's a cluster. We'll we won't do that

[44:02] again.

[44:03] >> Yeah.

[44:03] » Yeah.

[44:03] >> Yeah. Well, one of the topics could be

[44:05] » Yeah. Well, one of the topics could be

[44:05] could be the um be sea, but some other

[44:09] topic could be general

[44:11] noise

[44:12] >> and the city held a public meeting for

[44:15] » and the city held a public meeting for

[44:15] NEPA. So, it'll be up to the council

[44:16] whether they want to do that again for

[44:18] SEPA. So, if we do that, obviously the

[44:20] committee would be invited out to to

[44:22] that, but we had a non-counsel public

[44:25] meeting where we give kind of a

[44:27] presentation, help people understand how

[44:29] to respond to the SEIPA

[44:31] >> document and things like that. And so,

[44:33] » document and things like that. And so,

[44:33] Um, we will most likely be asking

[44:36] council if they want to do that again.

[44:38] Um, obviously it costs money to bring

[44:40] those professionals in to do that. So,

[44:43] um, but it was done for NEPA or whether

[44:46] we'll just say, "Hey, the NEPA letters

[44:48] there. The studies really haven't

[44:49] changed. You guys can take that previous

[44:52] template and turn it around for SEIPA."

[44:54] So,

[44:55] >> another quick question. When does the

[44:58] » another quick question. When does the

[44:58] city news

[45:01] >> the will the city current or the city?

[45:05] » the will the city current or the city?

[45:05] >> I just know that's quarterly.

[45:07] » I just know that's quarterly.

[45:07] >> It just came out. So

[45:09] » It just came out. So

[45:09] >> yes.

[45:10] » yes.

[45:10] >> So probably spring again is you know

[45:14] » So probably spring again is you know

[45:14] >> I think it just came out. So my guess

[45:15] » I think it just came out. So my guess

[45:15] would be spring. I'd have to double

[45:17] check.

[45:20] That would be a good

[45:22] place to whatever we came up with a good

[45:25] place to start

[45:26] >> write an article for the current that's

[45:28] » write an article for the current that's

[45:28] not a bad idea.

[45:30] >> So, okay, where are we? Can we agree

[45:32] » So, okay, where are we? Can we agree

[45:32] that we need to one do a survey?

[45:35] >> Yeah, let's just uh Yeah, let's just

[45:38] » Yeah, let's just uh Yeah, let's just

[45:38] talk about this for one second. So, um

[45:41] you know, I I I thought at first that

[45:43] would be a pretty good idea to get a

[45:45] sense of how the residents so we we can

[45:47] provide some at least some data to the

[45:51] uh to the um various groups we're

[45:53] engaged with about what our residents

[45:55] are concerned with. I don't think we're

[45:57] going to see a lot of surprises though.

[45:59] My guess is it's going to follow the the

[46:01] same complaints um and those have been

[46:03] well very well categorized on a number

[46:05] of different um venues already. So I

[46:08] don't know if we're going to get a whole

[46:09] lot of new interesting information. It

[46:12] would be nice to know whether noise is

[46:14] their biggest concern or traffic's their

[46:16] biggest concern or or health and what

[46:18] aspects of health so we can tie that

[46:20] into results that we want to see um

[46:24] exemplified in the SEIPA um and um and

[46:28] and and um cumulative effects that they

[46:30] said they would address there. Um but I

[46:32] but I don't know I mean but I'd like to

[46:34] do the survey um and looking for the

[46:37] right tool. So Joe, they um from the cab

[46:41] perspective, the they've uh worked hard

[46:45] to get a citywide

[46:49] uh survey out for the strategic plan and

[46:52] that has been going fairly well in terms

[46:56] of I think they have over a thousand

[46:58] responses. Um Katherine would have been

[47:02] happy with 250.

[47:04] >> Okay. So, but there was a you know

[47:06] » Okay. So, but there was a you know

[47:06] that's a 10 person I mean it's a tw I

[47:08] don't know how big the committee is but

[47:09] anyway there was a full that lot of

[47:13] effort went into getting that out u two

[47:16] takeaways from that it can be done um it

[47:19] would be effective but second will there

[47:22] be survey fatigue if they get if they're

[47:24] hit with another one uh three months

[47:26] later maybe they'll like it like these

[47:28] surveys

[47:28] >> I wrote up one I think I I sent it out

[47:30] » I wrote up one I think I I sent it out

[47:30] to everybody a little generic survey um

[47:32] on um issues around Seek airport. Um,

[47:36] and it wouldn't have to be very many

[47:37] questions, right? You could you could be

[47:39] done in less than 20 questions and it'd

[47:41] be good to have as a in our back pocket

[47:42] for feedback if it's well represented.

[47:45] >> That's the baseline, right? That's the

[47:47] » That's the baseline, right? That's the

[47:47] baseline.

[47:48] >> Be good to know

[47:51] » Be good to know

[47:51] >> ASAP or wait for

[47:53] » ASAP or wait for

[47:53] >> Well, I think it's going to take some

[47:54] » Well, I think it's going to take some

[47:54] time for us to discuss questions and do

[47:56] some of that. Can't be done while this

[47:58] other survey is going. ASA well I mean

[48:00] this this survey is is is wrapping up

[48:03] and the strategic plan process will be

[48:06] wrapping up as early as this spring.

[48:09] >> Okay.

[48:09] » Okay.

[48:10] >> Um

[48:10] » Um

[48:10] >> late late spring.

[48:12] » late late spring.

[48:12] >> So so we would we ours would follow that

[48:14] » So so we would we ours would follow that

[48:14] and maybe good to have it in the summer

[48:16] when the flights pick up and there's

[48:19] more concern. Okay. So maybe there

[48:21] wouldn't be such a bad thing. So let's

[48:23] just make sure that's one of our um work

[48:25] in our work plan to um accomplish that

[48:27] and um provide a summary of those

[48:29] results to the right folks

[48:30] >> and that'll be timing on that will be

[48:33] » and that'll be timing on that will be

[48:33] late spring early summer

[48:35] >> rightclude that

[48:37] » rightclude that

[48:37] >> so survey

[48:43] city currents will that's obviously once

[48:46] we get a work going

[48:49] what do they do that three times a year

[48:51] >> four But but the issue is when you know

[48:54] » four But but the issue is when you know

[48:54] when are there publishing deadlines? I

[48:55] mean you know maybe you might want

[48:57] something in January to before it gets

[48:59] in in April. There's a real lag

[49:01] involved.

[49:02] >> Be nice to have a complete work.

[49:04] » Be nice to have a complete work.

[49:04] >> Yeah.

[49:06] » Yeah.

[49:06] >> Yeah. We're not I don't think our lag is

[49:08] » Yeah. We're not I don't think our lag is

[49:08] like that. So if it goes if it does if

[49:10] we're able to keep the January 22nd date

[49:13] I don't see a problem with it being in a

[49:15] spring.

[49:15] >> Okay.

[49:16] » Okay.

[49:16] >> City current is my guess. Again I don't

[49:18] » City current is my guess. Again I don't

[49:18] know the exact date. And the 22nd is

[49:21] when we would actually

[49:23] make a presentation to city council. All

[49:26] right.

[49:32] » I think we should try I think we should

[49:33] try

[49:36] next year

[49:48] after that.

[49:50] So, but the immediate thing is for 12.

[49:53] >> Yeah. Well, fine. Let's do that. And

[49:55] » Yeah. Well, fine. Let's do that. And

[49:55] then why don't we plan for a a March

[49:59] public? We'd have two meetings and think

[50:01] about having in March and and the

[50:03] meeting in March, I would think, could

[50:06] help inform our survey, which is going

[50:08] out, you know, a quarter later perhaps.

[50:12] Uh, and I think it would be a and and

[50:14] there'll have been I think lots of time

[50:17] for things to percolate. They'll be

[50:19] public interest. The weather won't be

[50:21] bad. Um, so and it'll give us some time

[50:25] to plan it out between um, you know,

[50:28] going to the council next month and then

[50:31] we'll have February to sort of talk

[50:34] about it.

[50:35] >> Yeah. And then we'll have some good

[50:36] » Yeah. And then we'll have some good

[50:36] guidelines and some feedback about the

[50:38] process that's approved. Some of the

[50:40] concerns about how do we control a

[50:42] meeting like that? What kind of

[50:43] presentation materials we want to do

[50:45] >> and um and who's going to be

[50:47] » and um and who's going to be

[50:47] responsible? What piece?

[50:48] >> Yeah.

[50:48] » Yeah.

[50:48] >> Sure. Um you know I I think it's worth a

[50:51] » Sure. Um you know I I think it's worth a

[50:51] try. I I think it's might be very

[50:53] useful.

[50:55] >> I disagree. But we we all don't have to

[50:57] » I disagree. But we we all don't have to

[50:57] agree, you know. So, uh, um, I I I just

[51:01] think, you know, if we go forward with

[51:03] it, we we just need to make sure that

[51:05] we, you know, uh, I I think and we'll

[51:08] talk about what it looks like, right?

[51:09] But I think it's going to have to be um,

[51:11] very focused,

[51:12] >> very focused.

[51:13] » very focused.

[51:13] >> That completely, that's going to help a

[51:15] » That completely, that's going to help a

[51:15] lot. It's and I think, you know, we're a

[51:18] lot of us a lot of us have some pretty

[51:19] good skills. Hopefully, we can balance

[51:21] it and make it a productive meeting, um,

[51:23] an informative meeting.

[51:24] >> Yeah. But um it'll be interesting to see

[51:28] » Yeah. But um it'll be interesting to see

[51:28] how um how concerned our citizens really

[51:31] are and whether they're really looking

[51:32] for a place to um express their concerns

[51:35] and we just need to respond

[51:36] appropriately um to those with

[51:38] information um technical information um

[51:41] and um and and and let them know you

[51:44] have someone to talk to. We can address

[51:45] them

[51:46] >> address them. And I I think that I think

[51:48] » address them. And I I think that I think

[51:48] the folks want to be heard more than

[51:49] anything else. Imagine if the folks, you

[51:52] know, that are complaining about things

[51:53] actually had somebody that would listen

[51:54] to them. Um, and um, I think that way

[51:58] may help the community work this through

[52:01] as as we all have to.

[52:02] >> Well, I think you know, for me, what

[52:05] » Well, I think you know, for me, what

[52:05] success looks like,

[52:08] we get the rest of

[52:13] [laughter]

[52:14] that.

[52:16] >> Yeah.

[52:19] No matter what the court says or you

[52:21] know there's going to be impacts

[52:24] >> and that if you're if you're not willing

[52:27] » and that if you're if you're not willing

[52:27] to have a serious discussion about some

[52:29] kind of mitigation for those impacts at

[52:32] least

[52:33] be very honest about

[52:37] the severity what the impacts are going

[52:39] to be and when we can expect them to

[52:42] occur so that as citizens property

[52:45] owners

[52:46] for people that maybe are, you know,

[52:48] trying to plan for their retirement or

[52:51] or where they're going to raise their

[52:52] kids and send their kids to school so

[52:54] people can make decisions.

[52:56] >> And that to me is they owe us that. They

[53:00] » And that to me is they owe us that. They

[53:00] owe us the transparency. They owe us the

[53:02] honesty to say, "Okay, Joe, here's

[53:05] what's going to happen. You don't like

[53:07] it,

[53:10] but they owe us. They owe us that." Does

[53:14] that need That's really clear, Joe. Does

[53:16] Did that need to be in our threepoint

[53:19] the the transparency part of what we're

[53:21] committed to?

[53:23] >> Can you add something like that?

[53:25] » Can you add something like that?

[53:25] >> So, here's what I'm kind of putting

[53:27] » So, here's what I'm kind of putting

[53:27] right now as I'm trying to type

[53:28] something up. So, I've got engage with

[53:30] citizens and the community for

[53:32] additional information and understanding

[53:34] community concerns through

[53:37] surveys, one-on-one com communication,

[53:40] support or hold a public meeting to

[53:43] allow citizens to express their concerns

[53:44] if needed, engage in community through

[53:47] city currents articles about the

[53:48] committee and activity.

[53:51] >> It's good

[53:52] » It's good

[53:52] >> because because the

[53:53] » because because the

[53:53] >> I'll re yeah

[53:55] » I'll re yeah

[53:55] >> finesse the wording as typing as we're

[53:57] » finesse the wording as typing as we're

[53:57] talking. So,

[53:58] >> because think coming to council, you

[54:00] » because think coming to council, you

[54:00] only get a few minutes. Um going to the

[54:02] uh Port of Seattle presentations, it's

[54:05] so diverse, it's hard, you don't get the

[54:07] sense that one person's listening. Um

[54:09] and um um and so there's not a great

[54:12] venue for the residents to have any time

[54:15] on with uh folks that um uh have some

[54:20] impact to the process um for SAMP and

[54:23] other things. So yeah, just I don't know

[54:27] seems like

[54:27] >> So Rebecca I uh so Joe and I have this

[54:30] » So Rebecca I uh so Joe and I have this

[54:30] policy start meeting that starts in five

[54:33] minutes

[54:34] >> and can

[54:35] » and can

[54:36] >> Did you want to approve the minutes? I

[54:37] » Did you want to approve the minutes? I

[54:37] think that's the last thing on here is

[54:38] the minutes from the last meeting.

[54:40] >> So, just one last thing, I hope you're

[54:41] » So, just one last thing, I hope you're

[54:41] right, and I'm going to do everything I

[54:44] can to help make sure it's right. I just

[54:47] hope we look back and say, "Wow, that

[54:48] was a big waste of time."

[54:51] >> It could be a waste of time. Anyway,

[54:53] » It could be a waste of time. Anyway,

[54:53] >> do you want us to do you want to do some

[54:55] » do you want us to do you want to do some

[54:55] more word smithing on this and then have

[54:57] us take approve it at the next meeting?

[54:59] >> Right. But I need the minutes from the

[55:00] » Right. But I need the minutes from the

[55:00] last meeting approve that's in here.

[55:02] That's just this one page. No, that's

[55:04] just that's

[55:05] >> No, that that's just an attachment to

[55:06] » No, that that's just an attachment to

[55:06] the agenda.

[55:07] >> So move.

[55:08] » So move.

[55:08] >> Okay.

[55:09] » Okay.

[55:09] >> Second.

[55:10] » Second.

[55:10] >> Favor.

[55:11] » Favor.

[55:11] >> I

[55:12] » I

[55:12] >> Okay.

[55:14] » Okay.

[55:14] >> Is that all we needed to do and take

[55:16] » Is that all we needed to do and take

[55:16] >> that's it. [laughter]

[55:18] » that's it. [laughter]

[55:18] To your point it

[55:20] >> start meetings

[55:21] » start meetings

[55:21] have to have consensus. I mean that's

[55:24] they Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of a joke. I

[55:26] guess I'm I'm looking at a business

[55:28] perspective where it's like, okay, we

[55:30] don't all agree, but we've made a

[55:32] decision and whether we agree or not,

[55:33] we're

[55:34] >> that's where we're going.

[55:36] » that's where we're going.

[55:36] >> A word that send it out via email, see

[55:39] » A word that send it out via email, see

[55:39] if I have a general consensus, you can

[55:40] do a formal approval at the next

[55:41] meeting, but the agenda for the 22nd,

[55:43] would be due the same day as your

[55:45] meeting. So, if I have a general

[55:46] consensus, I can work on it from that.

[55:48] And then at the meeting, if you guys

[55:50] formally approve the work plan for

[55:51] recommendation to council, then we'll

[55:53] make sure we'll get it right on the

[55:54] agenda for the 22. Okay. And we don't

[55:57] Okay, so it's holiday season, so

[55:59] everyone's going to be busy, but if we

[56:01] need to have an offsite meeting or

[56:03] something like that after the first

[56:05] year, let's just

[56:08] >> have this back.

[56:09] » have this back.

[56:09] >> Yeah.

[56:10] » Yeah.

[56:10] >> I think that would be a good idea before

[56:12] » I think that would be a good idea before

[56:12] the 22nd.

[56:16] » Yeah.

[56:19] » So, um I sent you a note today,

[56:24] you know, We're sort of orphaned here. I

[56:27] know. Kick us out. But

[56:28] >> yeah, unfortunately I don't have a staff

[56:29] » yeah, unfortunately I don't have a staff

[56:29] member scheduled to be here for two

[56:31] hours. So it would

[56:32] >> Hey, do you have the login information?

[56:38] » I I checked with the library. They have

[56:40] a room and tables, but they're only open

[56:42] for another hour, not two hours.

[56:45] >> Well, it's an hour. I mean,

[56:46] » Well, it's an hour. I mean,

[56:46] >> faster.

[56:47] » faster.

[56:47] >> It shows two hours in the calendar

[56:49] » It shows two hours in the calendar

[56:49] invite, but

[56:50] >> Okay.

[56:51] » Okay.

[56:51] >> Hopefully you have some login. I didn't

[56:53] » Hopefully you have some login. I didn't

[56:53] get

[56:54] >> I can forward it to you.

[56:56] » I can forward it to you.

[56:56] >> I should have it.

[56:58] » I should have it.

[56:58] >> Do it and copy me anyway just in case.

[57:05] » I mean it just comes from Cheryl. I can

[57:06] forward it. That's what I'm gonna That

[57:08] has the Zoom. So I'll forward you the

[57:09] calendar but Wednesday.

[57:11] >> No, that's for today's

[57:14] » No, that's for today's

[57:14] that wasn't available.

[57:17] >> The Wednesday at home.

[57:18] » The Wednesday at home.

[57:18] Lindsay when I get

[57:22] >> right

[57:23] » right

[57:23] >> but for the policy committee and the

[57:25] » but for the policy committee and the

[57:25] noise committee

[57:27] >> I wouldn't mind knowing when those are

[57:29] » I wouldn't mind knowing when those are

[57:29] >> supposed to be on a calendar

[57:30] » supposed to be on a calendar

[57:30] >> that's what I'm saying on the calendar

[57:31] » that's what I'm saying on the calendar

[57:31] it has the the Zoom link so I'm sending

[57:33] it to you right now

[57:36] >> I I'm forwarding the calendar so I'm

[57:38] » I I'm forwarding the calendar so I'm

[57:38] assuming it's

[57:40] >> just mess up

[57:40] » just mess up

[57:40] >> I think they send out one at a time it

[57:42] » I think they send out one at a time it

[57:42] doesn't look like it's all of them so I

Airport Advisory Committee - 08 Dec 2025

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