[10:11] Welcome everyone to the East Lancing

[10:14] City Council discussion only meeting of

[10:16] May 19th, 2026. Uh the meeting will come

[10:20] to order. Could we have the roll call,

[10:21] please?

[10:23] >> Council member Council Member Whan

[10:26] » Council member Council Member Whan

[10:26] >> here.

[10:26] » here.

[10:26] >> Council member Meadows

[10:27] » Council member Meadows

[10:27] >> here. Council member Singh

[10:29] » here. Council member Singh

[10:29] >> here.

[10:30] » here.

[10:30] >> Mayor Prom Griggsby

[10:31] » Mayor Prom Griggsby

[10:31] >> here.

[10:31] » here.

[10:31] >> Mayor Alman

[10:32] » Mayor Alman

[10:32] >> here. Is there a motion to approve the

[10:35] » here. Is there a motion to approve the

[10:35] agenda?

[10:37] >> So moved.

[10:37] » So moved.

[10:37] >> Moved by Meadows.

[10:38] » Moved by Meadows.

[10:38] >> Second.

[10:39] » Second.

[10:39] >> Second by Griggsby. Any discussion of

[10:41] » Second by Griggsby. Any discussion of

[10:41] the agenda?

[10:43] All those in favor say I.

[10:45] >> I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Agenda

[10:47] » I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Agenda

[10:48] is approved.

[10:50] Uh communications from the audience.

[10:54] Um, I will call the slips in the order

[10:56] that I have received them. First speaker

[10:58] is Erica Zedzik Hernandez.

[11:11] » Good evening.

[11:13] Thank you for the opportunity to speak

[11:15] this evening.

[11:17] I'm an employee of the city of East

[11:19] Lancing. I report directly to the city

[11:21] manager.

[11:23] My purpose tonight is share is to share

[11:25] my experience working for Robert Belman.

[11:29] Since the city manager reports directly

[11:31] to you,

[11:33] I feel it is important for you to

[11:35] understand my experience.

[11:38] In 2025,

[11:40] Robert sexually harassed me

[11:44] and was verbally abusive towards me.

[11:48] His nickname for me was too easy.

[11:51] The first time he said it to me, I had

[11:54] no idea what he meant. As a defense

[11:57] mechanism, I quickly turned it into a

[11:59] harmless joke. He would frequently say

[12:02] to me, "You're too easy." And laugh. To

[12:05] me, it felt like he was insulting either

[12:07] my intelligence or my sexuality.

[12:10] Either way, I hated it.

[12:17] But I truly didn't know what to do. He's

[12:20] my boss and the city manager.

[12:25] His former assistant witnessed him

[12:27] calling me this nickname on numerous

[12:29] occasions.

[12:30] It got so bad that she pulled me aside

[12:33] and told me she didn't like how Robert

[12:35] talked to me. I told her I was fine and

[12:38] I could handle it.

[12:40] One evening, Robert and I were leaving

[12:42] City Hall together. We were alone.

[12:47] As we walked down the stairs, Robert

[12:49] joked and said, "Come on, Pokey." I told

[12:52] him that I'm slow on the stairs because

[12:55] my knees are bad. Robert responded by

[12:58] muttering, "Too easy." under his breath.

[13:01] I felt disgusted and embarrassed.

[13:05] I immediately pretended like the

[13:07] incident never happened.

[13:10] On another occasion, Robert threatened

[13:12] my job.

[13:14] We were discussing a grant and he asked

[13:17] me rapidfired questions. He looked and

[13:19] acted frustrated. When Robert is upset,

[13:22] he tends to ask me questions in such

[13:25] quick succession that I don't have time

[13:27] to think of a response before he is on

[13:29] to his next question.

[13:32] As a result, I feel stupid and he acts

[13:34] as if he is in control. Such was this

[13:37] occasion. He angrily said, "Why do I now

[13:41] have two grant writers? How much do you

[13:44] and unnamed co-worker make combined in

[13:47] one year? 150,000. That would ease the

[13:51] city's budget deficit if I didn't have

[13:53] to pay for two grant writers. His former

[13:56] assistant witnessed this interaction and

[13:59] looked visibly shocked.

[14:02] Robert tried to intimidate me to follow

[14:04] his direction. He gave me instructions

[14:07] and I saved and and I asked him

[14:09] questions which led to a discussion. As

[14:12] he walked away from me, he mumbled

[14:14] something and laughed. I asked him what

[14:16] he said. He looked at me and smirked. He

[14:19] walked towards me, leaned in very close,

[14:22] and whispered, "I trump everybody."

[14:27] He laughed out loud as he left my

[14:29] office.

[14:30] I reported these incidents on others

[14:32] using the proper channels as directed by

[14:35] city policy, an investigation opened and

[14:38] closed. To my knowledge, Robert has not

[14:41] been held accountable or received

[14:43] consequences for his actions. I do not

[14:45] see measurable change in his behavior.

[14:48] Yes, the surre the sexual harassment and

[14:50] outright verbal abuse directed at me has

[14:52] stopped, but that is a very low bar.

[14:56] When someone treats you in a degrading

[14:58] way and makes you feel less than, it

[15:01] stays with you.

[15:04] I am deeply concerned that he could

[15:06] repeat his behavior. Publicly, the city

[15:09] manager can appear friendly and

[15:11] thoughtful. However, he is a different

[15:13] person behind closed doors.

[15:15] Every day, I never know which Robert I

[15:17] will encounter, and it is stressful to

[15:20] consistently work in this environment.

[15:23] Three members of the 2023

[15:27] East Lancing City Council hired Robert

[15:30] Bellman. Even though his past in Sageno

[15:33] County is well known, I filed my

[15:37] complaint against the city manager

[15:39] during the tenure of the 2025 city

[15:41] council. I ask this council to do what

[15:45] the previous councils could not. I ask

[15:48] you to break the cycle of abuse and hold

[15:50] the city manager accountable.

[15:54] Silence perpetuates abuse. And I am done

[15:58] being silent.

[15:59] >> You have 30 seconds remaining.

[16:01] » You have 30 seconds remaining.

[16:01] >> Thank you, Rashidita Harrison.

[16:04] » Thank you, Rashidita Harrison.

[16:04] [applause]

[16:25] » [snorts]

[16:25] >> Good evening. My name is Dr. Rashidita

[16:27] » Good evening. My name is Dr. Rashidita

[16:28] Harrison. I'm a candidate for State

[16:30] Senate District 28, which is this

[16:33] district, a community member,

[16:36] and I am a mother of a little boy.

[16:39] I attended the press conference last

[16:41] week and had the honor of hugging Karen

[16:44] Kirby, Isaiah's mother. I attended

[16:47] because Isaiah could have been one of my

[16:49] students. And when I look at his

[16:52] picture, I know he could be my son.

[16:56] I am also here. I'm sorry. I'm here

[17:00] tonight for two reasons, actually.

[17:01] [laughter]

[17:02] Um, first I know firsthand the fear

[17:05] black mothers have for their children,

[17:07] knowing the dangers they face every day

[17:09] for just existing while praying that you

[17:12] never have to face losing your child to

[17:14] state violence. I am also here because

[17:18] what I witnessed last week made

[17:20] something clear to me. When a city's

[17:23] response to community grief is to manage

[17:27] it rather than meet it, there is a

[17:31] governance problem. [applause]

[17:34] This is not just a police problem.

[17:41] Honestly, I couldn't watch the video.

[17:44] I've been watching black men killed

[17:46] publicly by police officers my entire

[17:49] life. So, I read and watched reports and

[17:52] talked to community members, and what we

[17:55] learned is officers opened fired on

[17:58] Isaiah even as non-lethal options were

[18:02] available.

[18:04] His mother counted at least 17 gunshot

[18:06] wounds, including many to his back.

[18:10] The family's attorney stated that

[18:12] officers continued to fire after he had

[18:14] already fallen to the ground.

[18:17] The question before this council is not

[18:20] simply what the law permits. The

[18:23] question is what kind of community are

[18:26] we choosing to be?

[18:29] I also want to name what happened in the

[18:31] room last week. This council voted to

[18:34] reduce public comment from 5 minutes to

[18:36] three and to ban the act of clapping or

[18:38] other forms of human emotion to issues

[18:41] of justice and injustice. A former

[18:44] council member named it clearly. She

[18:46] said, "Now that the black and brown

[18:47] people are showing up, suddenly there's

[18:49] a resolution that reduces our public

[18:52] comment.

[18:53] These measures appear to give the

[18:55] council reason to bar community members.

[19:00] Essentially, you've criminalized the

[19:02] sound of solidarity.

[19:05] We are living in a moment where black

[19:07] and brown voices are being silenced and

[19:10] shut down at every level of this

[19:12] country, federally, legislatively,

[19:16] institutionally.

[19:19] I would hope that here at home we would

[19:22] choose differently,

[19:23] that this would be the place where we

[19:25] resist that urge and not replicate it. I

[19:28] would hope that we choose democracy,

[19:31] allowing the people's voices to be

[19:33] heard.

[19:34] I am imploring you, please govern using

[19:38] a politics of care where the people are

[19:41] centered. It is not only possible to do

[19:44] your jobs and govern empathetically.

[19:47] It is only it is the only way to

[19:50] ethically actually do it. The people in

[19:53] this room are not a problem to be

[19:56] managed. We are your constituents and we

[20:00] are watching.

[20:02] Thank you, Rebecca Quasin.

[20:05] [applause]

[20:10] My name is Rebecca Kasein. I come here

[20:12] as a private citizen, not on behalf of

[20:14] any commissions, organizations, or

[20:15] campaigns I'm connected to. I'm here

[20:17] because I'm furious. I'm here because

[20:20] Isaiah Kirby's blood is on your hands.

[20:22] For more than six months, this community

[20:24] has come before you, begging you to

[20:26] confront the racism inside the East

[20:28] Lancing Police Department. We came here

[20:29] with testimony, with evidence, with

[20:31] pain, and every single time this council

[20:34] chose self-preservation over

[20:35] accountability. Isaiah Kirby's blood is

[20:37] on your hands. In August, two innocent

[20:40] young black men were pepper-sprayed by

[20:42] an East Lancing police officer.

[20:43] Innocent. And instead of protecting

[20:46] those young men, Chief Jen Brown went on

[20:48] television and painted them as

[20:49] criminals. She released their names,

[20:51] charged them, lied about what they had

[20:53] or had not done, and she just continued

[20:56] to spread false narratives. She warned

[20:58] people that minorities from outside the

[21:00] community are coming here to commit

[21:01] crimes. There there are children. They

[21:05] live here. Blackness itself was just

[21:08] enough to just blackness itself was

[21:10] enough to justify suspicion.

[21:12] This is why Isaiah Kirby's blood is on

[21:14] your hands. We demanded accountability.

[21:17] We demanded Chief Brown resign or be

[21:19] terminated. We demanded discipline from

[21:21] every officer for every officer

[21:22] involved. Instead, the city circled its

[21:24] wagons. One officer quietly resigned and

[21:26] everyone else was protected by this

[21:28] machine. Isaiah's blood is on your

[21:30] hands. And while residents begged you to

[21:32] address the racism, this council spent

[21:34] its energy trying to silence descent.

[21:36] You tried to bully the Human Rights

[21:38] Commission when we when we investigated

[21:40] the discrimination. You advanced racist

[21:42] ordinances disguised as as public

[21:44] safety. At your last meeting, you went

[21:46] so far as to pass rules threatening

[21:48] residents with removal or arrest for

[21:50] clapping, cheering, or cheering at

[21:52] public meetings. Clapping. cheering,

[21:54] human emotion. You call it decorum.

[21:57] Let's call it what it really is.

[21:58] Control, respectability, politics, white

[22:01] supremacy wrapped up in parliamentary

[22:03] procedure.

[22:08] You are more disturbed by loud residents

[22:10] than by armed officers brutalizing black

[22:12] people. You are more offended by

[22:15] disruption in this chamber than by

[22:16] violence in the streets. You sit here

[22:19] demanding silence from the public while

[22:20] empowering people with guns, badgers,

[22:22] and immunity to kill. Isaiah's blood is

[22:25] on your hands.

[22:27] Then came Isaiah,

[22:29] a human being in the middle of a mental

[22:31] health crisis. A man holding a knife to

[22:33] his own neck. A man who needed

[22:34] intervention, compassion, distance,

[22:37] deescalation, and trained trained crisis

[22:39] response. I know those responses are

[22:42] possible because I've lived it. I had to

[22:44] call 911 for a family member having a

[22:45] mental health crisis. The East Lancing

[22:47] police who responded treated my family

[22:49] member with patience, kindness, empathy,

[22:51] and humanity. Nobody fired 17 bullets.

[22:55] Nobody treated this person like a

[22:56] monster. Nobody decided their life was

[22:58] disposable. And so I have to question uh

[23:02] this coun I so I have to ask the

[23:03] question this council refuses to

[23:04] confront. Why was compassion available

[23:07] for my family member but not Isaiah? Is

[23:09] it because my family member was white?

[23:12] Are we living in an aparttheid city

[23:13] where public services, safety, patience,

[23:15] empathy, and humanity are reserved for

[23:17] people with less melanin?

[23:19] >> Because that's what this looks like.

[23:21] » Because that's what this looks like.

[23:21] Isaiah's blood is on your hands.

[23:24] This department loves to brag about its

[23:26] CRIT training, mental health, first aid,

[23:28] deescalation, community policing. You

[23:30] hold press conferences and trainings and

[23:32] photo ops to convince the public that

[23:33] these officers are prepared to preserve

[23:35] life. But when the moment came to prove

[23:38] it, they emptied 17 bullets into a man

[23:40] in crisis. 17 shots. Not one officer

[23:43] decided that Isaiah's life was worth

[23:45] slowing down for. Not one officer

[23:47] decided to try and use non-lethal force.

[23:50] Funny how this department had no problem

[23:51] pepper spraying innocent black men a few

[23:53] months ago, but suddenly forgot every

[23:55] non-lethal option when a black man's

[23:57] life was actually hanging in the

[23:58] balance. That is not public safety. That

[24:01] is not protection. That is a publicly

[24:03] funded execution. Isaiah's blood is on

[24:06] your hands. And every single one of you

[24:09] who stays silent shares the

[24:10] responsibility. Every council member who

[24:12] hides behind waiting for investigations.

[24:15] Every official who refuses to challenge

[24:16] Chief Brown. Every person in this body

[24:19] who cares more about the city's image

[24:21] than the lives being destroyed but uh by

[24:24] the people acting in your name. This did

[24:26] not happen in a vacuum. You were warned

[24:29] over and over and over again. You were

[24:31] warned that there was a cultural problem

[24:32] inside this department. You were warned

[24:34] about racism, about escalation, about

[24:37] hostility towards the community. And

[24:38] instead of acting, you treated the

[24:40] people sound the people sounding like

[24:42] the alarm like they were the problem.

[24:44] Now a man is dead. Isaiah's blood is on

[24:47] your hands. And I do not want to hear

[24:49] thoughts and prayers. I do not want to

[24:51] hear carefully scripted condolences.

[24:53] >> 30 seconds remaining.

[24:54] » 30 seconds remaining.

[24:54] >> I do not want to hear about another task

[24:55] » I do not want to hear about another task

[24:55] force, another statement, another

[24:57] promise to listen and learn. We are far

[24:59] beyond that. What happened to Isaiah

[25:01] Kirby was not an unavoidable tragedy. It

[25:03] was the predictable outcome of a police

[25:05] culture that this council continues to

[25:07] protect. A culture where black people

[25:09] are treated as threats first and human

[25:11] beings second. A culture where criticism

[25:13] is dismissed, accountability is delayed,

[25:15] and violence is excused. You built this.

[25:17] You defended it. You enabled it.

[25:19] Isaiah's blood is on your hands.

[25:22] >> Thank you, Kath Edel.

[25:24] » Thank you, Kath Edel.

[25:24] [applause]

[25:28] » What was it?

[25:30] Can you repeat the name please?

[25:32] >> Kath Edel

[25:44] 6 months of us pointing out racism and

[25:47] more than likely it'll be sexual

[25:49] harassment that takes him down. That's

[25:51] white supremacy.

[25:53] 300 years of humiliation, abuse, and

[25:55] deprivation cannot be expected to find

[25:58] voice in a whisper. Martin Luther King

[26:00] Jr. While this council has made it clear

[26:03] they would prefer that we whisper, we

[26:05] are here to say hell no. A system of

[26:08] oversight that recover requires public

[26:10] comment is a system that does not want

[26:13] to be informed. A system that treats

[26:16] black dignity like a provocation and not

[26:19] a birthright is a white supremacist

[26:22] system. We are angry. We are frustrated.

[26:25] And we foretold this outcome for months

[26:28] and years before today. By now, most if

[26:32] not all of us have seen the video

[26:33] footage released by the city of the

[26:34] police killing of Isaiah Christopher

[26:36] Kirby. Most of us sitting in the gallery

[26:38] can hold space for two truths. Mr.

[26:40] Mock's assault was horrific and Mr.

[26:42] Kirby's death was unnecessarily caused

[26:44] by excessive force committed by the East

[26:46] Lancing Police Department. After

[26:49] impaneling national and local experts on

[26:50] use of force, the East Lancing

[26:52] Independent Police Oversight Commission

[26:53] crafted a draft rewrite of ELPD's use of

[26:56] force policy in 2023. The department

[26:59] declined to implement our suggestions

[27:01] and chose to stick with the bare minimum

[27:03] standards and current paramilitarized

[27:05] training. One suggestion we made was to

[27:07] add the following. The de the department

[27:09] recognizes and respects the sanctity and

[27:11] value of each human life and gives the

[27:13] highest priority to the preservation of

[27:14] human life and safety for all people

[27:17] involved. The department initially

[27:19] declined but later added this because it

[27:21] was required for accreditation.

[27:23] We suggested that they keep the fourth,

[27:25] fifth and 14th amendments in the

[27:26] forefront as the lowest bar. They

[27:29] declined. The fifth amendment reads in

[27:31] part, "No person shall be deprived of

[27:33] life, liberty, or property without due

[27:35] process of law." Mr. Kirby was deprived

[27:38] all three. We also suggested they

[27:40] include the US Supreme Court decision

[27:42] Tennessee versus Garner, which concluded

[27:44] that the use of deadly force is

[27:45] reasonable if the officer has probable

[27:47] cause to believe that the suspect poses

[27:49] a significant threat of death or serious

[27:53] physical injury to other officers or

[27:55] others. How is a man laying on the

[27:57] ground already shot multiple times who

[27:59] appears to be holding a knife to his own

[28:01] throat a significant threat? We are

[28:03] angry. We are heartbroken. And we know

[28:05] that 300 years of humiliation, abuse,

[28:07] and deprivation will not end today. We

[28:10] know this for many reasons, including a

[28:11] comprehensive police violence report

[28:13] released by the nonprofit research

[28:15] organization Mapping Police Violence

[28:17] shows that at least 121 people were

[28:20] killed by law enforcement officers

[28:22] across the United States in 2025. So far

[28:25] in 2026, 449 individuals have been

[28:28] killed, including 96 black people, or

[28:30] 22% of the total deaths in a country

[28:33] where black people comprise

[28:34] approximately 12% of the population.

[28:37] There have only been five days so far

[28:40] this year where police officers not

[28:42] killed someone. 95% of the deaths

[28:45] involving police officers resulted from

[28:47] police shootings. We also know that

[28:49] fewer than 1% of police related killings

[28:51] result in officers being charged with a

[28:54] crime with charges filed in only eight

[28:57] cases in 2025. Furthermore, black

[29:00] prosecutors, particularly black women,

[29:02] primarily represented those who pursued

[29:04] criminal charges and police related

[29:06] deaths from 2013 to 2025. Although black

[29:10] women make up only 1% of elected

[29:11] prosecutors nationwide, they account for

[29:13] 8% of prosecutors who filed charges

[29:16] against officers. 9% of those who

[29:19] secured convictions and 16% of

[29:22] prosecutors who brought charges in two

[29:23] or more deadly force incidences.

[29:26] The Michigan's AG office is run by a

[29:28] white woman. The Ingam County prosecutor

[29:30] is a white man. There is no justice for

[29:33] a black man in a system of whiteness so

[29:35] entrenched on preserving white

[29:36] supremacy. As this council continues to

[29:39] focus on process and procedures,

[29:41] families are hurting in large part

[29:42] because process has never meant justice.

[29:45] East Lancing can and must do better than

[29:47] the lowest bar. I will close with

[29:50] another quote from Martin Luther King

[29:51] Jr. For years I have heard the word

[29:54] wait. This weight has almost always

[29:56] meant never. Thank you.

[29:59] >> Thank you Erica Schmidt deal. [applause]

[30:07] call and speak soon.

[30:10] >> Hello, my name is Erica Schmidt deal. I

[30:12] » Hello, my name is Erica Schmidt deal. I

[30:12] am a social worker and I'm a resident of

[30:14] East Lancing. I am here to ask for

[30:17] resignations from Jen Brown and I was

[30:20] not planning to ask for a resignation

[30:22] from Mr. Bellman, but now I will um

[30:25] having heard the first speaker of today.

[30:27] Um I find it appalling that Mr. Bellman

[30:30] would state that he is going to be

[30:32] transparent and that the city will be

[30:34] transparent um with the Michigan State

[30:37] Police in the investigation when Ellie's

[30:41] um ability to do anything in terms of

[30:44] advancing racial justice in policing in

[30:47] East Lancing has been curtailed. Um

[30:51] really use of force and racial profiling

[30:55] are not issues that just go back six

[30:57] months. I know um thanks to our many of

[31:00] our community members, these issues are

[31:02] getting much more attention in the last

[31:04] 6 months, but East Lancing has always

[31:06] been a sundown town. Um I think

[31:09] everybody knows that. Um and I think

[31:11] it's time that we stop pretending it's

[31:13] not. Um I think we need some radical

[31:16] changes um here in our city um to make

[31:20] it more welcoming and more safe for

[31:22] people of color. Um, and I think we

[31:24] should really consider when has the

[31:27] NAACP ever been on the wrong side of

[31:29] history and if they are calling for

[31:32] resignations, we should listen.

[31:35] >> Thank you. Annie Kase.

[31:41] » Who was it?

[31:43] >> Annie Kase.

[31:57] Hello, my name is Annie Kase. I am 6

[32:02] years old and

[32:05] and I in

[32:07] >> kindergarten

[32:08] » kindergarten

[32:08] >> in kindergarten at Red Elementary

[32:12] » in kindergarten at Red Elementary

[32:12] School. I ca I came here

[32:18] months ago talked

[32:21] about how the police weren't fair to

[32:26] people with different skin colors.

[32:32] My young My five's teacher, Miss Brace,

[32:37] taught me how to be an upstand. She

[32:42] taught me that when something is wrong,

[32:49] you should you are supposed to speak up

[32:55] even when it is hard.

[32:58] My kindergarten teacher,

[33:02] >> Miss Man

[33:04] » Miss Man

[33:04] taught me about perseverance, not giving

[33:09] up when things are hard.

[33:12] And so I have to come back again

[33:18] and again because

[33:21] grown-ups are [laughter] who

[33:25] are supposed to

[33:28] lead

[33:30] and protect people

[33:33] are not listening.

[33:38] A man named

[33:41] >> Isaiah

[33:41] » Isaiah

[33:42] >> Isaiah died after police did use their

[33:48] » Isaiah died after police did use their

[33:48] >> training

[33:48] » training

[33:48] >> training.

[33:56] I'm autistic.

[33:58] >> Autistic.

[34:00] » Autistic.

[34:00] What happens when I am older?

[34:05] If I am having a really bad day, are

[34:10] they a are the police going to hurt me

[34:14] or help me? If you say that they are

[34:19] going to help me,

[34:21] it it is it's only because of

[34:26] the colors of my skin.

[34:30] My mom taught me that when something

[34:36] when someone is hurt

[34:40] or having a hard time, you are supposed

[34:45] to help them

[34:50] calm down and keep everyone safe.

[34:56] Are you you you're

[35:00] >> not supposed

[35:01] » not supposed

[35:01] >> you're not supposed to

[35:04] » you're not supposed to

[35:04] >> make

[35:06] » make

[35:06] >> things worse.

[35:07] » things worse.

[35:07] >> things worse. Grown-ups tell kids

[35:12] » things worse. Grown-ups tell kids

[35:12] our

[35:13] >> to use our word

[35:13] » to use our word

[35:14] >> to to use our words to not to be

[35:18] » to to use our words to not to be

[35:18] >> patient

[35:18] » patient

[35:18] >> patient and to care about other people.

[35:25] » patient and to care about other people.

[35:25] I think I think

[35:28] >> police

[35:29] » police

[35:29] >> police officers should have to do that

[35:33] » police officers should have to do that

[35:33] too.

[35:35] I do not think police people

[35:40] should

[35:42] treat be treated differently because

[35:46] of the colors

[35:49] of their skin.

[35:52] I do not think people have having a

[35:57] really bad day

[36:00] should be killed. Uh it is not fair that

[36:05] kids have to keep asking their grown

[36:09] keep asking grown-ups to do the right

[36:12] thing.

[36:17] I want East Lantern to be a city where

[36:21] everyone is safe

[36:24] and treated fairly.

[36:27] I want

[36:28] >> 30

[36:30] » 30

[36:30] to listen

[36:31] >> to listen when people say something is

[36:35] » to listen when people say something is

[36:35] wrong. I And I want to

[36:38] >> you

[36:39] » you

[36:39] >> you to be brave enough to fix it. Thank

[36:44] » you to be brave enough to fix it. Thank

[36:44] you.

[36:46] >> Thank you, Nicole Keyway Biber.

[36:49] » Thank you, Nicole Keyway Biber.

[36:49] [applause]

[37:04] Good evening. Um,

[37:07] interesting to see the in the agenda the

[37:11] training update that we're going to be

[37:14] privy to apparently later says things

[37:16] like deescalation, trauma recognition,

[37:19] and mental resilience,

[37:21] ethical policing, building trust,

[37:23] professionalism.

[37:26] I think it was maybe Sunday. I actually

[37:28] had an interaction with the East Lancing

[37:30] Police Department on my suburban street.

[37:33] Very quiet place. Um I look out the

[37:36] window, I see one of their vehicles,

[37:40] three officers across the street from

[37:42] me. There's a black family. Um there's a

[37:45] young man standing and speaking with

[37:47] them. [clears throat] Well, even right

[37:49] now, my heart starts racing.

[37:52] So, I go out and go to get my mail

[37:55] because it's across the street. And I

[37:58] ask my neighbor, "Are you okay?" He

[38:00] says, "Yeah." I said, "You gave them

[38:02] permission to go in your house?" He's

[38:03] like, "Yeah, I'm okay." I was like,

[38:04] "Okay." And I just go across the street

[38:07] checking in on him. And one of the

[38:10] officers says, "Ma'am, we'll come talk

[38:12] to you afterwards." Like, if you want. I

[38:14] was like, "Whatever. Okay." So, I stand

[38:17] and I watch and uh there's a bit more

[38:20] movement and um eventually the young man

[38:23] goes inside and uh they come over to my

[38:26] side of the street and um they say, "Oh,

[38:31] did you have a question about

[38:32] something?" I said, "I just wanted to

[38:34] make sure he was okay."

[38:36] They're like, "Oh, well, they called us

[38:38] in." I was like, "Okay, thanks. I just

[38:40] want to make sure he was fine." That

[38:42] could have been it, right? That was the

[38:44] interaction. I got and we talked a bit.

[38:47] He said, one of the officers says, "Is

[38:49] there a reason you assume maybe things

[38:51] weren't okay?"

[38:53] I was like, "Wow." I was like, "Okay." I

[38:57] mean, I'll bite. I'm not scared to speak

[38:59] up. I was like, "A lifetime of

[39:02] experience." I was like, "I'm a brown

[39:04] person. I grew up in a black

[39:06] neighborhood. I see something like this.

[39:08] I'm going to ask if they're okay."

[39:13] They the officer who by the way is the

[39:16] biggest tactical gear vest can picture

[39:21] ends up saying to me uh saying to me uh

[39:25] well I don't even think of that. I was

[39:27] like well okay well I do and I guess you

[39:30] have the privilege not to.

[39:33] >> He says I'm not hyperfocused on race.

[39:36] » He says I'm not hyperfocused on race.

[39:36] So, who here thinks that's not an

[39:39] implication that I am?

[39:42] >> But of course, when I say that, I'm

[39:44] » But of course, when I say that, I'm

[39:44] like, "Oh, well, I don't think I'm

[39:46] hyperfocused. I was telling you my life

[39:48] experience."

[39:51] And he says, "I wasn't saying you were.

[39:53] I was just talking about me." Oh my

[39:56] gosh.

[39:57] I have This is over and over the way

[40:01] it's framed. The problem is us

[40:05] there. You don't y all don't see color,

[40:07] right? That's supposed to be like the

[40:09] the magic wand that says racism doesn't

[40:12] exist except in your head.

[40:15] So, you see things like trauma

[40:17] recognition.

[40:19] I directly disclose my life experience.

[40:22] His return to me is, "You're

[40:24] hyperfocused on race." Oh, um, no,

[40:26] excuse me. He's not.

[40:29] Building trust and professionalism.

[40:31] Incredibly condescending.

[40:34] geared up with tactical vest does not

[40:36] make me feel safe.

[40:39] So, y'all are the ones sitting in these

[40:41] positions. You can call for a

[40:43] resignation of that police chief and it

[40:45] sounds like you need to do one for the

[40:47] city manager as well.

[40:49] And by the way, limiting people's time

[40:51] to comment. I was kind of proud of East

[40:54] Lancing. I'm like, wow, we get five

[40:56] minutes. I have so many situations in my

[40:58] life where I get just bare bare few

[41:01] minutes to say something that's in this

[41:03] case a life and death matter.

[41:06] When you're limit time, you're

[41:07] undermining the voices of differently a

[41:09] the differently aabled. Did you think

[41:11] about that?

[41:12] >> I've encountered so many people are so

[41:14] » I've encountered so many people are so

[41:14] nervous or not used to public sper

[41:16] experience. Our voices matter deeply to

[41:19] one another. That's why people are

[41:22] probably watching at home. That's why

[41:23] people came here. We want to hear each

[41:25] other. Why don't our voices matter to

[41:27] East Lancing leadership?

[41:30] And and what is it? You're thinking to

[41:34] lead us too.

[41:35] >> 30 seconds remaining.

[41:37] » 30 seconds remaining.

[41:37] You should be listening and thinking

[41:40] this is the most important part of every

[41:42] single meeting because it is.

[41:46] [applause]

[41:47] Thank you, Kayla Gomez.

[41:51] [applause]

[42:02] Hello, my name is Kayla Gomez, resident

[42:04] of East Lancing. Um, I'm up here

[42:07] basically to again ask for the

[42:09] resignation of Jen Brown and

[42:13] Belman. So, everybody else has done a

[42:15] great job. I will let them speak.

[42:17] >> Thank you, Carla Forest Huitt.

[42:30] Good evening. My name is Carla Forest

[42:31] Huitt. Um, I spoke last week about uh

[42:37] how

[42:39] much

[42:41] it is important for us to move forward

[42:43] in a different way. Um, all the voices

[42:46] that shared their opinions today are

[42:48] important. I don't think that we can

[42:51] move forward without trying to involve

[42:54] change. We cannot disregard the things

[42:57] that are said. Silence from leadership

[43:00] is a dismissal. Um

[43:03] using policy as a as a stonewall to

[43:06] prevent voices from being shared is also

[43:09] problematic. I think that um

[43:13] the employee who came forward and shared

[43:16] her story should be listened to and this

[43:18] shouldn't be the platform where it is

[43:20] shared. It is really really horrendous

[43:23] that someone who had this experience has

[43:25] to come publicly and share this in an

[43:28] open forum. In addition to that, my son

[43:31] is here today as a person that I care

[43:34] deeply about and there are other

[43:36] mothers. Rashidita shared her story

[43:39] about being a parent and I think that as

[43:43] a small community, we have the ability

[43:46] to make changes that are impactful. We

[43:49] can make it where East Lancing can be a

[43:51] place where when you come, you know, the

[43:54] police offer is going to tell you good

[43:55] morning and wish you a good day. not

[43:57] dress you down,

[43:58] >> right? And it is so appalling to me that

[44:03] » right? And it is so appalling to me that

[44:04] we cannot

[44:06] we we hide behind this idea that what

[44:09] there's potential danger. But by putting

[44:13] officers in this space, you're inviting

[44:15] that vibration. I do not understand why

[44:18] this is the move that you make.

[44:20] All of you are live have lived

[44:22] experience and this has never happened

[44:25] in this space since we've been doing

[44:28] this in the Hannah community center and

[44:29] I have worked here and this is something

[44:32] that I do not think will happen unless

[44:34] you invite that and I also think that

[44:36] the training that our police officers

[44:38] have on a global scale and on a national

[44:40] scale needs to change because this is

[44:42] not something that

[44:45] helps us respond to the needs of our

[44:48] community. Police officers are supposed

[44:50] to protect and serve, not dominate

[44:54] [clears throat] and kill.

[44:56] And so with that said,

[45:00] what are you going to do going forward?

[45:02] I mean, so many voices have been shared,

[45:05] recorded, things have been said, things

[45:07] have been put in the news. There is a

[45:09] history. There are things that have been

[45:11] done before this council that have

[45:12] worked. Why are we not looking to to

[45:15] those changes? Why aren't the rep why

[45:17] isn't there representation in the city

[45:19] that represents the diversity of our

[45:21] community? Why when we put people in

[45:24] leadership positions, they do not

[45:26] represent our community? This is why we

[45:28] continue to have the same decisions.

[45:30] This is why a lot of the work that I try

[45:32] to do to create spaces of belonging has

[45:36] been rolled back when I left. And I I'm

[45:38] really really tired of of trying to hope

[45:43] that you do better. I think going

[45:46] forward, the weeks, the days, the

[45:49] months, every decision that you make

[45:50] going forward should be a thing to do

[45:52] better to include voices. Even if you

[45:56] don't like what is being said, listen

[45:58] and think about how it might be

[46:00] something useful, impactful. If you

[46:02] don't have children, talk to people who

[46:04] have children and experiencees

[46:07] that are are meaningful. Okay? that it

[46:10] is it is sheer terror a mother feels

[46:14] when she lets her child go into the

[46:16] world knowing that when they grow up the

[46:20] world will start seeing them differently

[46:22] because of their skin color and I've

[46:25] seen it happen when when Isaiah was

[46:28] small he used to be adorable and then

[46:31] just by by association he becomes a

[46:35] person of interest and he's still young

[46:38] and I'm not making it up. It is not in

[46:41] my imagination. And so, as others have

[46:45] said, we need to count hold our police

[46:48] officers accountable. When people do

[46:49] wrong, they should be held accountable.

[46:51] It should not just only be for some.

[46:54] Okay? It should be for everyone.

[46:56] Everybody should be held accountable for

[46:58] when they do wrong. And I think that

[47:01] >> 30 seconds remaining.

[47:03] » 30 seconds remaining.

[47:03] >> Um, I'm really disappointed. I'm very

[47:06] » Um, I'm really disappointed. I'm very

[47:06] disappointed. I'm so disappointed it

[47:09] hurts.

[47:12] >> Thank you, Josh Huitt. [applause]

[47:26] Um, hello everyone. Um, I really have no

[47:28] idea what I'm going to say.

[47:30] I feel like I'm trapped in this loop

[47:32] coming here. Um, it's it's it's tough.

[47:35] But either way, um, last week, um,

[47:38] during commissioner comment, Mark

[47:39] Meadows, I think he addressed something

[47:40] Taj Mika said. And she said that pretty

[47:43] much if you saw the video footage,

[47:45] chances are most of us would not have

[47:46] been here. Mark Meadows said he doesn't

[47:48] think that's true. It's interesting that

[47:49] you guys address stuff when you choose

[47:51] to address stuff and important stuff you

[47:53] guys just choose not to address. I want

[47:54] to ask you, Mark Meadows, and I hope you

[47:56] can can answer this question when you

[47:58] when you have your commission to

[47:59] comment. You said you you pretty much

[48:02] said that um, what James Mccuris Jr.

[48:04] from the NAACP said in terms of the

[48:07] officer lunging um Isaiah Kirby lunging

[48:10] at the officer, you said what he said

[48:11] was contradictory. You said that he

[48:14] lunged at the officer. I showed the

[48:16] video to so many people and I watch it

[48:17] myself. I even showed it to a police

[48:19] officer. I have a cousin who's a police

[48:20] officer in New York. I I was like, man,

[48:22] I called him. I was like, objectively,

[48:23] I'm not going to tell you what I think.

[48:24] I want you to look at this this video

[48:26] footage objectively. Call me back and

[48:27] tell me what you think. I asked him, did

[48:30] the police officer lunch? He gave me a

[48:32] lot of feedback about a lot of things

[48:33] that were handled in his opinion, not

[48:35] correctly, but some things that were

[48:36] handled correctly as well. Just to be

[48:37] honest with you guys, I asked him

[48:39] Swissily, did the police officer lunge

[48:41] at did Isaiah Kirby lunge at a police

[48:43] officer? And he said no. Um, so my

[48:45] question to you, Mark Meadows, is I'm

[48:46] pretty sure that you saw the video

[48:48] footage that came out Friday. Just

[48:49] address that for me. Like if if if you

[48:51] were wrong, just admit that you were

[48:52] wrong. Um, that's all I'm asking. Um,

[48:55] Robert Belman, I hate to go back on

[48:57] this, but the reason we're in this

[48:58] position is is honestly because of you

[49:00] and and the decisions that you made in

[49:02] terms of hiring Jen Brown. I mentioned

[49:04] this in public comment months ago, and

[49:06] again, I had a sit down with you and I

[49:08] asked you not to hire Jen Brown. So,

[49:10] again, a lot of this stuff is seeming to

[49:12] be reactive, but again, it's it's it's

[49:13] not reactive. Again, we're just

[49:15] frustrated and we've been asking, we've

[49:16] been asking, we've been asking and you

[49:18] guys are just not listening. when a lot

[49:21] of community members came showed up to

[49:23] for the meet and greet for the police

[49:25] officers that were were running for the

[49:26] police chief position. Again, I said

[49:29] this in public comment. You you made the

[49:30] whole thing seem as if we had some sort

[49:32] of our our input would be valued, but

[49:35] again, it was just a complete joke. You

[49:37] didn't listen to us at all. Um so again,

[49:39] this is why we're we're in this

[49:40] position. Um Kerry Singh, you might

[49:43] consider yourself white. I I don't know

[49:44] if you are. You have a husband who's not

[49:46] white. Clearly, you have a son who is

[49:48] clearly obviously not white. I just hope

[49:51] you guys don't wait until this happens

[49:52] to your own kids that you start taking

[49:54] action. Please, you guys stand behind

[49:57] these institutions and all this talk

[49:58] about lawsuits and all this BS. What

[50:01] happened to those guys downtown? It

[50:02] never had to get to a lawsuit. You guys

[50:04] should have told Jen Brown, "Hey, let's

[50:05] just meet together and talk and we can

[50:06] make this right." So, don't say just

[50:08] because it's a lawsuit now you can't say

[50:10] anything again. Don't wait till it

[50:11] happens to you to say something and do

[50:14] something. Um, Chuck, I don't have

[50:16] anything to say to you. Um, Eric Alman,

[50:20] Jen Brown said that minorities come to

[50:22] East Lancing to commit crimes.

[50:24] The criminals I'm seeing actually also

[50:27] came from outside of East Lancing.

[50:29] Robert Belman doesn't live. He lives in

[50:30] Sageno. I think Kel said like 85% of the

[50:33] police officers are are from outside of

[50:35] East Lancing. You're from Canada. you

[50:37] came to United States to do the things

[50:40] that you do when you retire from MSU and

[50:42] you and and you decide to you and your

[50:44] wife Kathy Swedllo and you guys decide

[50:46] to retire, you're probably going to run

[50:47] back to Canada and leave the mess for a

[50:49] lot of people to clean up. That's not

[50:50] cool at all. You have no kids here. You

[50:53] have nothing that that's keeping you

[50:54] here and making you want to do the right

[50:56] thing. You're going to run back to

[50:57] Canada and that's it. You're gone. We

[50:59] don't need we don't hear from you

[51:00] anymore. You don't come here. You don't

[51:03] come to somebody else's country to do

[51:05] the things that you're doing. Again, I

[51:07] wonder who the criminals are here.

[51:09] Robert Bellman and you, Mark Meadows. My

[51:13] wife used to work for the city. She's

[51:15] had interactions with you before. And I

[51:18] was to say, you know, Carla, Mark seems

[51:20] to me like like a decent guy. And

[51:24] I I keep having some sort of level of

[51:26] hope in you and Carrie Singh to do the

[51:29] right thing.

[51:31] I've been saying this for months. I've

[51:33] been asking you guys for months to do

[51:34] the right thing. Steve Wheelen, I my

[51:37] wife has had interaction with you as

[51:39] well as a police officer.

[51:41] I don't know much about you and that's

[51:42] why I've never said anything. I've never

[51:44] come up here and said anything bad about

[51:46] you because I don't know much about you.

[51:48] We need three people. I asked for one,

[51:50] but I realize one is not going to make a

[51:52] lot of change in terms of the stuff that

[51:53] we're trying to do in terms of policing

[51:54] and just racial justice in East Lancing.

[51:56] I'm asking for three of you guys. Please

[51:58] do the right thing. Steve Wheelen, Mark

[52:01] Meadows, Kerry Singh, please just again

[52:04] I've been asking for months. Please do

[52:06] the right thing. Eric Alman, I shook

[52:09] your hand last week. Um, and I thought

[52:11] like after all these people gave public

[52:13] comments about like not limiting public

[52:15] comment to three minutes that you would

[52:16] do the right thing. And again, you just

[52:18] continue to disappoint. Um, yeah, that's

[52:21] all I got to say. Y'all have a good

[52:23] night. All right.

[52:23] >> Thank you, Amanda Morgan.

[52:26] » Thank you, Amanda Morgan.

[52:26] [applause]

[52:30] Hello. Thank you. I'm going to take a

[52:32] sip real quick.

[52:36] I am here today as a guest. Um, I stuck

[52:40] around this town because after I went to

[52:42] MSU and I really liked it. I I liked

[52:45] this culture and this community. I felt

[52:46] like we had a mix of people and and and

[52:49] a a middle class that was progressive.

[52:53] I'm here today to kind of address one

[52:56] simple thing. Bureaucracy

[52:59] versus community and leadership.

[53:04] You can't be a leader in bureaucracy.

[53:07] You're a rules and order people. We're

[53:09] seeing that here today. When you use

[53:11] rules and order to tell what the

[53:13] community what to do, you galvanize a

[53:17] movement. Congratulations.

[53:20] You've galvanized a movement.

[53:22] You know, the best way to um reduce

[53:25] public comment is to listen.

[53:30] You know, pepper spray is not a

[53:32] deescalation tool. A vigil is.

[53:38] And just because we have rule and order

[53:40] that silos information up and down a

[53:43] chain of command,

[53:45] um there was no nothing that stopped you

[53:48] from holding a vigil.

[53:51] Mayor,

[53:54] people are here today because they're

[53:56] challenging you to grow,

[53:58] to take the community as a whole, not

[54:01] just be a bureaucrat that um uh takes

[54:04] care of the people who put money in your

[54:06] pocket,

[54:08] not just take care of white culture and

[54:10] middle class and academia.

[54:14] I'm a white person telling on myself

[54:16] because I care about you all.

[54:19] And you're kind of doing it wrong.

[54:20] You're do you're doubling down on power

[54:22] and control, not an act of listening in

[54:25] community.

[54:27] In June uh in February 2020, George

[54:30] Floyd lost his life to a police officer.

[54:34] In June 2020, I talked to my uh business

[54:38] that I work for that's public mental

[54:40] health and I said, "There's a problem

[54:43] coming and I'm worried."

[54:46] And in that letter, I described exactly

[54:49] what I was afraid of.

[54:54] [sighs]

[54:56] I didn't tell the bureaucrats in my

[54:59] business that stuff because I wanted to

[55:01] be a good old tushy. Good tush. I'm

[55:03] sorry. A good, you know what I mean? I

[55:07] told them because I cared about the

[55:10] people in the system that were doing the

[55:12] jobs that things were coming and I was

[55:14] using my foresight to try to prepare us.

[55:21] I am here today to continue to advocate

[55:24] that you all strip off some cultural

[55:26] privilege that you received and the

[55:29] higher up you go with power the more

[55:31] people kiss your butt. and bureaucracy.

[55:35] Praise goes uphill and [ __ ] rolls

[55:38] downhill. Excuse my language.

[55:42] I will speak to you today, Chuck. I see

[55:44] you. It took a lot of um acclimating to

[55:50] white culture to be where you're at.

[55:54] Sometimes we have to completely shut off

[55:56] our our community and what it's going

[55:59] through to survive white culture. and

[56:02] your community today is just asking you

[56:04] to be brave enough to risk your

[56:07] whiteness.

[56:12] Um, they will have your back if you call

[56:17] this BS out. Same for you. Your

[56:20] husband's a man of color. You're a white

[56:22] woman. And until you do the work, you

[56:24] can be a racist, too.

[56:29] Again, I go back to I stuck around this

[56:32] area and community because I really like

[56:35] this space and place and people. It's an

[56:37] intersection of of

[56:40] strength and power.

[56:43] I'm really sad and I'm not surprised

[56:46] that white culture in MSU and East

[56:48] Lancing are doing the bureaucrat way.

[56:51] Rule and order. And by the way, if this

[56:54] is the advice of your city manager,

[56:57] he's really doing you wrong.

[57:01] >> You have 30 seconds.

[57:02] » You have 30 seconds.

[57:02] >> Before the next meeting, I hope you all

[57:06] » Before the next meeting, I hope you all

[57:06] set up a vigil. People may not show up

[57:08] because they don't trust you or set up a

[57:11] uh I don't know something. At this

[57:13] point, you got to step down and listen

[57:15] to people.

[57:17] I appreciate your time.

[57:20] >> Thank you. Uh, [applause]

[57:24] » Thank you. Uh, [applause]

[57:24] Yanka Marillo.

[57:36] Good evening. I am a concerned Lansancy

[57:39] neighbor and a mother of a mixed Afro

[57:41] Latino who's 5 years old. I used to live

[57:44] in East Lancing as well. I stand before

[57:47] you tonight carrying grief, anger, and

[57:50] urgency after the killing of Isaiah, a

[57:53] young black community member that got

[57:55] shot by police. Too often, these moments

[57:58] are reduced to headlines, statistics,

[58:02] investigations, or public relations

[58:05] statements.

[58:06] Our community deserves better.

[58:09] We deserve transparency, accountability,

[58:12] and action, not silence, delay, or

[58:15] defensiveness.

[58:16] We deserve systems that protect life

[58:19] while acknowledging race and not

[58:22] regardless of, but acknowledging race,

[58:26] neighborhood, age, or background.

[58:29] Acknowledge treatment differs based on

[58:31] race, ethnicity, and skin color. That's

[58:33] a good start.

[58:35] And we deserve leaders willing to

[58:37] confront the reality that black and

[58:39] brown community members continue to

[58:41] experience policing differently and more

[58:44] dangerously than others.

[58:46] Tonight, I ask the council to do more.

[58:49] Invest in community-based safety and

[58:52] crisis response strategies.

[58:54] Community-ledd. Let your community tell

[58:57] you they know the best way to do things

[59:01] for community by community. strengthen

[59:03] accountability measures and civilian

[59:05] oversight. Commit to ongoing dialogue

[59:08] with impacted families and communities,

[59:11] not only in moments of tra tragedy, but

[59:14] consistently.

[59:16] This is not a conversation about anti-

[59:19] police or whatever we want to call it.

[59:23] This is a conversation about

[59:26] pro-accountability

[59:27] and pro-humity. We've lost humanity.

[59:32] We're losing humans, literally.

[59:35] For many black communities, um, black

[59:40] community members, incidents like this

[59:42] reopen generations of pain and fear.

[59:45] Young people are watching closely.

[59:47] They are asking whether their lives are

[59:50] truly valued and whether those in power

[59:52] will protect them or protect systems

[59:54] from scrutiny. Your response matters. We

[59:59] cannot build trust without truth. We

[1:00:01] cannot build safety without justice. And

[1:00:04] we cannot ask communities to heal while

[1:00:07] avoiding the changes necessary to

[1:00:09] prevent future harm.

[1:00:12] >> Thank you, Abby Tiki.

[1:00:15] » Thank you, Abby Tiki.

[1:00:15] [applause]

[1:00:20] Right. I currently serve on the East

[1:00:22] [clears throat] Lancing School Board,

[1:00:23] but my comments today are my own. Mayor

[1:00:25] Altman, I urge you to reject the idea

[1:00:28] that we should simply let the process

[1:00:30] play out. Delay is not neutral. Delay

[1:00:32] has consequences. And you were not

[1:00:34] elected to observe problems. You were

[1:00:37] elected to respond to them. And I know

[1:00:39] you're capable of acting quickly when

[1:00:40] you choose to because when a drunk

[1:00:42] driver destroyed my elderly white

[1:00:43] neighbor's mailbox, you were there to

[1:00:45] check in on her before I even made my

[1:00:47] morning cup of coffee. So, I have to

[1:00:49] ask, where is that same urgency now? Why

[1:00:52] does a mailbox seem to inspire faster

[1:00:54] action than the lives of young black

[1:00:56] men?

[1:00:58] [applause]

[1:00:59] Waiting for another procedural step pro

[1:01:02] protects bureaucracy, but it does not

[1:01:03] protect public the public. Strong

[1:01:06] leadership is politically inconvenient,

[1:01:08] and I understand the attorneys and city

[1:01:10] manager do not want you to speak out or

[1:01:12] take action, but you were not elected to

[1:01:14] protect lawyers, procedure, or liability

[1:01:16] management. You were elected to make You

[1:01:19] were not elected to make the city

[1:01:20] manager's job easier or give a failing

[1:01:22] chief of police endless opportunities to

[1:01:24] demonstrate that she understands the

[1:01:26] population she is serving and is capable

[1:01:28] of protecting them. Your job is to make

[1:01:30] sure they are doing their jobs. History

[1:01:34] will not remember who followed

[1:01:35] procedure.

[1:01:37] I support the demands that will be put

[1:01:38] forward by the Citizens for Justice

[1:01:40] group later tonight and I ask that you

[1:01:42] act on them immediately. And I also

[1:01:45] serve as chair of the Lancing Regional

[1:01:47] Smart Zone. And I am charged by the city

[1:01:49] of East Lancing to promote tech

[1:01:50] entrepreneurship and uh stem the flow of

[1:01:53] brain drain out of this area from MSU.

[1:01:55] And I can't do that with the reputation

[1:01:57] that we're building here in the city

[1:01:59] right now.

[1:02:01] I am also a crisis advocate for the MSU

[1:02:04] Center for Survivors. I believe

[1:02:07] survivors. I was also once party to a

[1:02:10] lawsuit against a municipality for

[1:02:12] gender-based pay discrimination

[1:02:17] and I met you councelor council member

[1:02:19] Singh at a gathering when you were

[1:02:21] campaigning at Moren McCabe P house and

[1:02:25] I asked you what you were going to do

[1:02:28] when this exact thing happened because

[1:02:31] we knew it was going to and I think you

[1:02:33] said something about allowing more

[1:02:36] opportunity for city employees to be

[1:02:38] able to air their grievances or

[1:02:40] something. And was not a great answer,

[1:02:41] but I thought that's okay. She's on the

[1:02:42] campaign trail. Probably nobody's asked

[1:02:44] her that yet. Hopefully, she'll think

[1:02:45] about it now. Is that what this was? I

[1:02:49] know Miss Hernandez. She's a friend of

[1:02:51] mine.

[1:02:54] Please, all of you do better.

[1:02:58] >> Thank you, Tashmika Toro.

[1:03:01] » Thank you, Tashmika Toro.

[1:03:01] [applause]

[1:03:04] » Hello. I am trying to gather myself

[1:03:08] because I also know Erica. She is a

[1:03:11] former employee of mine and I am so full

[1:03:14] of rage.

[1:03:17] I'm not sure that you are aware of what

[1:03:19] just happened.

[1:03:21] Um I'm a survivor of child sexual abuse.

[1:03:23] Um most of my body of work is related to

[1:03:26] sexual violence. Most of my body of work

[1:03:28] is related to stopping people from being

[1:03:30] violent in intimate ways.

[1:03:33] The patterns of violence that have to do

[1:03:36] with power and control are happening

[1:03:38] here.

[1:03:40] When survivors speak, you silence them.

[1:03:42] You shorten the time that they can

[1:03:44] speak. When people show up for them,

[1:03:47] you close off half the room.

[1:03:51] When they tell you you protect the city,

[1:03:53] you do not protect the person. The only

[1:03:56] reason for any of you to sit here and

[1:03:59] act like due process matters is because

[1:04:00] you are protecting this [ __ ] city

[1:04:02] from when they win that lawsuit. Because

[1:04:04] then you will really be broke.

[1:04:08] >> The reason why you are okay with what

[1:04:11] » The reason why you are okay with what

[1:04:11] has happened to the black people in this

[1:04:13] community is because you are operating

[1:04:15] on power and control. You have allowed

[1:04:17] this city to operate on the same

[1:04:20] dynamics that allow sexual violence to

[1:04:22] happen in the first place. You are

[1:04:24] sitting in a dis right here with a

[1:04:27] perpetrator of sexual violence. You have

[1:04:30] enabled police violence against your

[1:04:32] against your own community that shows up

[1:04:35] every day and you act like you're being

[1:04:38] victimized by it. You act like this is

[1:04:40] the worst possible thing that could

[1:04:42] happen that you have all these people

[1:04:43] you have to listen to. Do you know how

[1:04:44] much love and faith it requires for

[1:04:47] people with generational trauma to get

[1:04:50] up and come here and talk to you every

[1:04:52] week as if our humanity is in question?

[1:04:55] There are people here who won't speak to

[1:04:57] you because their nervous systems can't

[1:04:59] handle it.

[1:05:01] >> And you should [ __ ] leave.

[1:05:05] » And you should [ __ ] leave.

[1:05:05] [applause]

[1:05:10] » We are not waiting for a process. If you

[1:05:13] wanted to do something, you could. If

[1:05:15] you wanted to choose the people over the

[1:05:18] city's budget and a the risk of what a

[1:05:20] lawsuit means, you could. If you wanted

[1:05:24] to believe Erica when she came the first

[1:05:26] time, you [ __ ] could have done it.

[1:05:30] You are victimizing this community by

[1:05:33] making us wait. And I hope you

[1:05:35] understand that. That you are in the

[1:05:38] lineage of white supremacy that didn't

[1:05:40] allow black people to even move here in

[1:05:41] the first place. in 1968 when the HRC

[1:05:44] was created.

[1:05:47] [applause]

[1:05:49] » You ask us to come, you say we're

[1:05:52] listening and nothing happens. We ask

[1:05:54] you questions, you say, "I don't know. I

[1:05:56] need your help."

[1:05:59] What more could we tell you? What more

[1:06:02] policy proposals could we bring you?

[1:06:04] What more statistics could we bring you?

[1:06:08] If you would like the info, if you'd

[1:06:09] like to, my name is Taj Miko. can find

[1:06:12] me. There is literally no one else with

[1:06:13] this name. But if you would like the

[1:06:14] information about how child sexual abuse

[1:06:16] and perpetration of violence and the

[1:06:18] dynamics come together to create exactly

[1:06:20] the [ __ ] dynamic we're experiencing

[1:06:22] right now, let me know.

[1:06:25] I have a digital archive that I would

[1:06:26] love to send you. This is unacceptable.

[1:06:31] It is unacceptable that this is what you

[1:06:33] require of people who are being

[1:06:34] oppressed by the police in this

[1:06:35] community.

[1:06:37] When you go back in that room and you

[1:06:40] talk,

[1:06:42] you should not, first of all, be sharing

[1:06:43] the table with someone who sexually

[1:06:45] harassed one of your one of your

[1:06:47] employees.

[1:06:49] >> First of all, second of all, you can do

[1:06:52] » First of all, second of all, you can do

[1:06:52] things now. You can fire Jen Brown

[1:06:54] today.

[1:06:56] >> You can fire this sexual predator right

[1:06:58] » You can fire this sexual predator right

[1:06:58] now and you can offer a [ __ ] policy

[1:07:01] that actually changes the way that the

[1:07:03] police interact with people of color in

[1:07:04] this community because THEY ARE DYING.

[1:07:07] BECAUSE A CHILD SAT ON THE FLOOR CUTTING

[1:07:10] HIS OWN [ __ ] THROAT AND THEY SHOT him

[1:07:13] more than 10 times

[1:07:16] and we all watched it and you know just

[1:07:18] like [ __ ] sexual violence and the

[1:07:20] Epstein files you all want to tell us

[1:07:22] what we saw like I don't have eyes in my

[1:07:25] head like this is not the first time or

[1:07:27] like this is the first time we've ever

[1:07:29] seen police shoot black people

[1:07:32] there was no lunging there was a child a

[1:07:35] human being who is hurting themselves

[1:07:37] And then they performed medical aid.

[1:07:40] >> Hey bro, we want to help you.

[1:07:43] » Hey bro, we want to help you.

[1:07:43] >> Just put the knife down.

[1:07:45] » Just put the knife down.

[1:07:45] >> Oh, get the chest seals. You don't even

[1:07:47] » Oh, get the chest seals. You don't even

[1:07:48] roll them over. You zip tie his hands

[1:07:51] and leave him on the ground to die.

[1:07:55] It is unacceptable. You should be

[1:07:57] ashamed of yourself. If you are not

[1:07:58] ashamed, then you should be embarrassed.

[1:08:01] It's disgusting.

[1:08:04] >> Thank you. Max Millian Muckleberry.

[1:08:09] » Thank you. Max Millian Muckleberry.

[1:08:09] [applause]

[1:08:14] Max Millian Muckleberry.

[1:08:21] [clears throat]

[1:08:35] Hello. Uh, so I'm actually My name is

[1:08:38] Max Huckleberry. I'm from Lancing.

[1:08:41] And I did work all day, but then I drove

[1:08:44] myself here to do this because that's

[1:08:45] how much I care because I'm horrified.

[1:08:49] You know, like when people when I first

[1:08:51] heard about this happening, I was like,

[1:08:52] "Oh, no."

[1:08:54] Um, it didn't happen again, did it?

[1:08:57] Right. I mean, you know, the thing that

[1:08:59] cops do where they like hurt people and

[1:09:02] they didn't need to that they do all the

[1:09:03] time. You know, this isn't even the

[1:09:05] first person in proximity to me through

[1:09:07] community that has been killed by the

[1:09:09] police this year that I know. Like, this

[1:09:12] is like crazy. This happened 10 minutes

[1:09:14] from where I sleep at night.

[1:09:17] It keeps me up, honestly. Like [snorts]

[1:09:20] I like to usually try to take all the

[1:09:23] information available to me before I try

[1:09:26] to write something to say at a council,

[1:09:28] but

[1:09:30] I could only watch one body cam angle

[1:09:33] one time

[1:09:35] because it was so terrible. I will never

[1:09:38] unsee that ever. I hoped if you watched

[1:09:41] it, you will never forget it either

[1:09:44] because what I saw was,

[1:09:48] you know, we don't know what happened

[1:09:49] before that, but you know, he's a

[1:09:51] suspect and obviously that's he

[1:09:53] shouldn't have done those things if he

[1:09:54] did. I don't think anyone's arguing

[1:09:56] about that. But it didn't even look like

[1:09:59] he was running at the police. He was

[1:10:01] just running. He did something terrible

[1:10:03] and he was running away from it. That's

[1:10:05] what it looked like. And then they shot

[1:10:08] him multiple times. He fell on the

[1:10:10] ground, started hurting himself with his

[1:10:12] own knife, and then they shot him more.

[1:10:17] How is that okay?

[1:10:22] Like, and then they use a riot shield to

[1:10:27] pin his hands down after shooting him

[1:10:29] over a dozen times

[1:10:31] just to grab the knife and handcuff him

[1:10:33] like he's still a threat somehow

[1:10:36] >> as he's bleeding out.

[1:10:40] It's incontable.

[1:10:43] Those people should be fired. And

[1:10:46] honestly, if you ask me, I'm not I don't

[1:10:48] know much about the law, but like at

[1:10:50] least manslaughter charges. Like, oh my

[1:10:52] god.

[1:10:53] >> Yeah.

[1:10:54] » Yeah.

[1:10:54] >> Maybe they didn't mean to kill him, but

[1:10:56] » Maybe they didn't mean to kill him, but

[1:10:56] they [clears throat] did.

[1:11:00] And just because someone commits a crime

[1:11:02] or may have committed a crime doesn't

[1:11:04] mean they should be murdered. Right.

[1:11:07] >> And if you don't all take a stand

[1:11:09] » And if you don't all take a stand

[1:11:09] against this, you will be complicit in

[1:11:11] an execution without due process.

[1:11:17] » And I don't even know what's going on

[1:11:19] with this guy. It sounds really bad.

[1:11:23] >> Uh Jennifer Brown should resign in

[1:11:25] » Uh Jennifer Brown should resign in

[1:11:25] disgrace. I mean, I don't know how she's

[1:11:29] still here, how she got hired in the

[1:11:30] first place. On God.

[1:11:34] Um,

[1:11:36] yeah. But this, you know, this has been

[1:11:37] keeping me up at night and I I hope it

[1:11:40] keeps you guys up at night, too.

[1:11:44] Thank you, Virginia Caldwell.

[1:11:57] [snorts]

[1:12:03] » [clears throat]

[1:12:13] » So, um, this is the first time I'm

[1:12:15] coming to the council to speak and I'm

[1:12:16] just really hoping that we're all not

[1:12:17] wasting our time.

[1:12:20] I see a lot of poker faces

[1:12:23] >> and I'm hoping that behind these poker

[1:12:25] » and I'm hoping that behind these poker

[1:12:25] faces are hearts

[1:12:29] » that are receiving

[1:12:31] what a community is saying.

[1:12:36] I understand that we can only do the

[1:12:38] best that we can with the information

[1:12:39] that we have at the time, but it seems

[1:12:42] like there's like a master's degree of

[1:12:45] information coming into you right now.

[1:12:57] I can't imagine what it's like to be in

[1:12:59] your shoes,

[1:13:01] but I'd like to share with you what it's

[1:13:03] like to be in mine.

[1:13:05] I have three children, two of them being

[1:13:07] boys.

[1:13:09] We're Chicagoans. I came up here to MSU

[1:13:12] for college. We stayed. I stayed.

[1:13:17] 24 of my 28 years as an adult have been

[1:13:20] in East Lancing.

[1:13:23] The four years we were in Chicago when

[1:13:25] we had our two sons, Laquan McDonald in

[1:13:28] 2014 was gunned down by the police.

[1:13:32] He had a knife in his hand. He was also

[1:13:35] going through mental health issues.

[1:13:38] He walked away from the police officer

[1:13:40] that was demanding that he drop the

[1:13:41] knife.

[1:13:43] The police officer said that Laquan

[1:13:44] lunged at him.

[1:13:46] and then unloaded his clip. He was shot

[1:13:49] 17 times. I think it was only because of

[1:13:52] the body cam footage that we really

[1:13:53] found out the truth that he was just

[1:13:56] shot.

[1:13:59] After that happened, I decided we were

[1:14:02] moving back to East Lancing because I

[1:14:05] wanted to be in a small community.

[1:14:08] I didn't want my children to have to

[1:14:11] face the aggression

[1:14:15] that I saw happening.

[1:14:19] Here we are

[1:14:21] 12 years later.

[1:14:25] Do you know what it's like to be a mom

[1:14:27] and have to sit at the table and

[1:14:29] rehearse what to do if they ever get

[1:14:33] pulled over by a police for a traffic

[1:14:36] stop?

[1:14:38] Do you know how much time I've wasted?

[1:14:40] It's not a waste because I want my kids

[1:14:42] to come home.

[1:14:44] I have to explain to them that you have

[1:14:46] to be calm so you don't trigger the cop.

[1:14:50] You have to remain calmer in this

[1:14:53] situation so they don't think you're

[1:14:56] aggressive. Because you know, cultural

[1:14:58] competency says that we all communicate

[1:15:00] differently.

[1:15:02] And so some cultures when they're

[1:15:04] passionate,

[1:15:06] they speak louder, but that's

[1:15:08] interpreted as aggression.

[1:15:13] Have you had that conversation with your

[1:15:15] kids?

[1:15:17] Have you sat at the dinner table and

[1:15:19] wasted time talking about how to engage

[1:15:21] with the police and not to over

[1:15:25] advocate for yourself so that you're not

[1:15:29] looked upon as a threat?

[1:15:33] right now. I'm passionate.

[1:15:39] I looked into how many non-lethal

[1:15:42] options

[1:15:43] there were

[1:15:46] that could be used. And I know y'all got

[1:15:48] the budget for it cuz I pay taxes.

[1:15:52] >> As a homeowner in the community, I pay

[1:15:54] » As a homeowner in the community, I pay

[1:15:54] taxes. And I am demanding change for my

[1:15:59] pre-teens.

[1:16:01] who will be driving soon.

[1:16:06] I don't need anyone

[1:16:08] not understanding how to deescalate.

[1:16:11] There's CPI training. I've worked in

[1:16:14] mental health. Maybe these young

[1:16:17] officers need to go to a behavioral

[1:16:20] health unit and understand what it looks

[1:16:22] like when someone is having a mental

[1:16:24] health crisis so that they can be better

[1:16:27] on their feet to an analyze the

[1:16:29] situation.

[1:16:31] None of this is okay.

[1:16:34] And I guess I came here because I just

[1:16:35] wanted to make a comment. But then after

[1:16:37] hearing the comments and looking at the

[1:16:39] responses, I'm asking where are the

[1:16:42] hearts in the room?

[1:16:45] 30 seconds remaining. We're out of

[1:16:47] hearts.

[1:16:49] There doesn't need to be a wall here.

[1:16:51] We're a community and we need to solve

[1:16:53] this. I don't care what any other city's

[1:16:55] doing. I don't care what any other state

[1:16:57] is doing. Change happens here because

[1:17:00] people want change. Change can happen

[1:17:04] instantly.

[1:17:07] Instantly today, right now, change can

[1:17:10] happen. We can make decisions, but walls

[1:17:12] have to come down and hearts need to

[1:17:14] come out and we need to see everyone

[1:17:16] else's struggle.

[1:17:18] Thank you for your comments. Your time

[1:17:20] has expired.

[1:17:23] Uh, Cadia Ericson.

[1:17:41] Hello everybody. Um, as you said, my

[1:17:44] name is Cadia Ericson and I hold many

[1:17:47] titles, but I'm coming to you today as

[1:17:50] just a citizen. Um,

[1:17:54] I've been thinking about what it is I

[1:17:56] would say. And um, as I'm listening to

[1:17:59] everybody talk about Isaiah, it made me

[1:18:02] think a lot about the students I had

[1:18:04] from MSU this year. um young minority

[1:18:08] students um undergraduates who were

[1:18:12] juniors and seniors. And um

[1:18:18] the day after Isaiah Kirby was murdered

[1:18:22] was a very quiet day in my office. The

[1:18:26] students who were normally laughing and

[1:18:29] so joyful and excited for life were very

[1:18:33] quiet,

[1:18:35] very upset, very depressed. And as the

[1:18:39] reporting came out and I listened to

[1:18:42] people describe Isaiah as intelligent

[1:18:45] and humorous, somebody who was gentle

[1:18:48] and kind, I thought of how that's

[1:18:52] exactly how I would describe my students

[1:18:55] that I get to spend so much precious

[1:18:57] time with. And

[1:19:00] I watched

[1:19:02] the murder of Isaiah too many times um

[1:19:06] because statements had to be written.

[1:19:09] And so I unfortunately had to continue

[1:19:13] watching and see all of the camera

[1:19:16] angles and watching his distress,

[1:19:21] hearing his distress as he brings a

[1:19:24] knife to his own throat. And then to see

[1:19:26] that the police officer's response is to

[1:19:29] shoot him at least three more times

[1:19:34] was a lot. Um I unfortunately in my very

[1:19:38] short life have witnessed a lot of black

[1:19:41] trauma, a lot of black bodies murdered

[1:19:45] um at the hands of police. Unfortunately

[1:19:47] I have had to give comment like this

[1:19:49] before. Maybe not necessarily here.

[1:19:54] Um,

[1:19:55] and I also think about how

[1:19:58] not too long ago and for several months

[1:20:01] in a row, every week that I could make

[1:20:04] it here, I was asking you to consider

[1:20:07] humanity just like all of they are for

[1:20:10] the homeless in the community because

[1:20:13] for far too long you considered how you

[1:20:15] could treat them as inhumanely as

[1:20:17] possible and get away with it.

[1:20:20] And those two things are connected.

[1:20:23] They very much are connected. Your

[1:20:26] willingness to be cruel to the

[1:20:28] vulnerable, if you can codify it in the

[1:20:31] law, is upsetting,

[1:20:34] very deeply upsetting. And then here we

[1:20:37] are in this situation which was

[1:20:40] predictable when you consider how

[1:20:42] welcome week went last year, how all of

[1:20:45] that unfolded, how it continues to

[1:20:48] unfold and we are here today and now

[1:20:51] someone is dead.

[1:20:54] Isaiah was supposed to graduate this

[1:20:58] year.

[1:20:59] Isaiah had plans for what he would do

[1:21:03] after he left MSU. he wanted to go down

[1:21:05] to Texas

[1:21:07] and continue his work with animals.

[1:21:12] And I think about how my students spent

[1:21:15] the last academic year filling my brain

[1:21:19] with fantasies about how they too would

[1:21:23] just as freely as they dream in my

[1:21:25] office

[1:21:29] get to live that out.

[1:21:32] And I can't help but just dwell on how

[1:21:35] unbelievably cruel it is to think of

[1:21:39] about how Isaiah freely dreamed about a

[1:21:43] future he wanted to build for himself

[1:21:46] and it was stolen

[1:21:48] likely by officers who are undertrained

[1:21:51] for the populations that they're dealing

[1:21:53] with. Um,

[1:21:56] I am once again encouraging you guys to

[1:22:00] make the right decision for your

[1:22:02] community. You know, I said something to

[1:22:04] you guys several months ago about how

[1:22:06] you cannot arrive at humanity and

[1:22:08] dignity when you start in a place of

[1:22:10] power and control.

[1:22:11] >> You have 30 seconds remaining.

[1:22:13] » You have 30 seconds remaining.

[1:22:13] >> And you've heard a lot about how you

[1:22:15] » And you've heard a lot about how you

[1:22:15] need to step away from your urge to

[1:22:18] engage with power and control a lot

[1:22:20] tonight. And I suspect until you

[1:22:22] actually make moves that are visible and

[1:22:24] tangible to the community, you will

[1:22:26] continue to hear that. Um, you once

[1:22:29] again have the opportunity to do

[1:22:31] something different. Model real

[1:22:33] accountability for the community and

[1:22:35] display real leadership by applying

[1:22:38] pressure you can to ensure MSP's

[1:22:40] investigation is actually independent.

[1:22:43] >> Thank you for your comments.

[1:22:46] » Thank you for your comments.

[1:22:46] Those were all the slips that I had. Is

[1:22:48] there anyone in the audience uh who has

[1:22:51] not yet spoken who would like to address

[1:22:53] the council please?

[1:22:57] If you could state your name for the

[1:22:58] record, please.

[1:23:02] » Yeah. My name is Rasha Thomas.

[1:23:07] I'm going to remove my emotions and put

[1:23:10] aside the rage.

[1:23:13] My wife and I moved out in East Lancing.

[1:23:15] Uh she graduated from Michigan State. I

[1:23:17] know the police are shady. I get pulled

[1:23:19] over like twice a night, twice a week,

[1:23:22] visiting my fiance. Got one moving

[1:23:24] violation in my whole life. I'm 51 years

[1:23:26] old. Pulled over way over 100 times

[1:23:28] these slants. So, I know the deal. I

[1:23:29] know how to move. You know, it's it is

[1:23:31] what it is.

[1:23:33] We have two kids graduate from East

[1:23:36] Lansancy High School doing phenomenal.

[1:23:38] My daughter just graduated from Eastern

[1:23:40] Michigan. My son's on a full ride D1

[1:23:42] football scholarship down there. We are

[1:23:44] terrified when they come home to visit.

[1:23:50] » Terrified. And I'm not a scary dude. I

[1:23:54] can't protect my kids if they want to go

[1:23:56] down to the strip where they went to all

[1:23:58] through high school. They want to just

[1:24:00] visit with their other friends on

[1:24:02] holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas,

[1:24:04] because I don't know what the hell y'all

[1:24:06] going to do.

[1:24:08] >> We already know you don't have to do

[1:24:09] » We already know you don't have to do

[1:24:09] nothing wrong.

[1:24:11] You can just be accused of something.

[1:24:14] I'm not a big guy. I'm not small either.

[1:24:17] But my son is 6'5, 285, playing D1

[1:24:19] football. My daughter's a foot shorter

[1:24:22] than him. So if she drives her little

[1:24:24] brother somewhere, he look the bum thug

[1:24:26] dude, as y'all like to call us now,

[1:24:28] thugs, that's got this girl and and all

[1:24:30] this stuff. Another someone said

[1:24:32] something about teaching your sons how

[1:24:35] to act in the car. I'm like, "Son, just

[1:24:37] be still. You can reach the dashboard

[1:24:40] from where you're at,

[1:24:42] daughter. Just do what you want. Roll

[1:24:44] all windows down. Hit the dome lights.

[1:24:46] Do all of this. Why? So you don't die.

[1:24:52] » Sorry about that. I got a little

[1:24:53] emotional.

[1:24:55] >> Dig this. I hear a lot of stuff about um

[1:24:58] » Dig this. I hear a lot of stuff about um

[1:24:58] [clears throat]

[1:24:59] police training and whatnot.

[1:25:02] It's always an excuse as to why they did

[1:25:04] something wrong.

[1:25:06] I think maybe trying to have a solution,

[1:25:09] not just being upset or angry. Get some

[1:25:11] better people.

[1:25:13] [applause]

[1:25:16] » Get some better people. It is a very

[1:25:19] strenuous job, a high stress job, a very

[1:25:21] important job, a very deadly job.

[1:25:25] >> Y'all got some bums out here being cops.

[1:25:28] » Y'all got some bums out here being cops.

[1:25:28] >> Not all of them, but enough. Obviously,

[1:25:33] » Not all of them, but enough. Obviously,

[1:25:33] if you are that damn scary when you have

[1:25:36] to go into a situation, that's not the

[1:25:39] profession for you. Period.

[1:25:41] >> If you are not a good leader, you won't

[1:25:43] » If you are not a good leader, you won't

[1:25:44] be a football coach. If you're not a

[1:25:46] good doctor or assessing doctor stuff,

[1:25:48] you won't be a doctor. Some jobs because

[1:25:51] you want it and you didn't excel at

[1:25:53] something else and they're hiring does

[1:25:54] not mean you need to get that job.

[1:25:58] That's what no shade to anybody, no

[1:26:00] emotion, not attacking anyone.

[1:26:03] UPS is hiring. The post office is always

[1:26:05] hiring.

[1:26:07] >> You cannot be an EMT and then run in to

[1:26:10] » You cannot be an EMT and then run in to

[1:26:10] help somebody and save their life and be

[1:26:12] like, "Oh, they they mouth look nasty.

[1:26:13] I'm not I'm not getting close to them."

[1:26:15] It's your job. So if you got a pool of

[1:26:18] people that's not from this community,

[1:26:20] come from God knows where to police or

[1:26:23] help this community and they're scared

[1:26:26] of the community that when something

[1:26:28] like this happens and it is a high

[1:26:30] stress level situation, it could be

[1:26:33] dangerous. It was dangerous and your

[1:26:35] first thing is to pull your gun be like,

[1:26:37] "Stop, please stop." Boom, bang, bang.

[1:26:39] Come on now. You don't need that job.

[1:26:41] >> Period. You don't You just don't need

[1:26:44] » Period. You don't You just don't need

[1:26:44] it. Find something else. If you're not a

[1:26:46] leader, Jim Brown, get off.

[1:26:48] >> Yeah.

[1:26:49] » Yeah.

[1:26:49] >> Why do I'm not gonna assume that. It

[1:26:52] » Why do I'm not gonna assume that. It

[1:26:52] seems to me like a lot of people

[1:26:55] would like to try and defend something

[1:26:58] instead of having all the proof why it

[1:27:00] should be removed, just not removing it.

[1:27:02] We're going to keep it because we're

[1:27:03] going to make it right. I don't

[1:27:05] understand that.

[1:27:07] I always say no better, do better.

[1:27:10] I'm really hoping that you guys have

[1:27:12] heard what everybody has to say, that

[1:27:14] you know better

[1:27:16] and you actually start doing better.

[1:27:19] >> I ain't taking no cheap shots at nobody,

[1:27:23] » I ain't taking no cheap shots at nobody,

[1:27:23] but there's so much more that can be

[1:27:25] done. And I'll be damned. Y'all just be

[1:27:27] like, whatever. Stonefaced all across

[1:27:30] here. No emotion.

[1:27:32] You don't got to clap. You ain't got to

[1:27:33] be special. Just listen and do better.

[1:27:35] >> Seconds remaining.

[1:27:37] » Seconds remaining.

[1:27:37] >> Thank you. Is there anyone else in the

[1:27:40] » Thank you. Is there anyone else in the

[1:27:40] audience who would like to speak,

[1:27:43] please?

[1:27:51] » Please state your name for the record.

[1:27:54] >> Good evening. My name is Neil Kunman.

[1:27:55] » Good evening. My name is Neil Kunman.

[1:27:55] I'm a resident of East Lancing,

[1:27:57] Michigan. And I apologize for not

[1:27:59] getting a card in. I just arrived in

[1:28:01] town.

[1:28:02] I'm imploring each of you. I know each

[1:28:05] of you individually.

[1:28:07] I've worked with you. I have a

[1:28:10] tremendous respect for the abilities

[1:28:12] that you have. I am imploring you

[1:28:17] to listen to what is being said tonight

[1:28:20] and to do far better than is being done.

[1:28:25] I too watched those tapes

[1:28:28] and I was

[1:28:31] saddened and angry

[1:28:33] by the fact that our chief of police led

[1:28:36] me to believe

[1:28:38] that that young man was running at a

[1:28:42] police officer with a knife and that's

[1:28:45] why guns were pulled.

[1:28:49] I'm not excusing what that young man

[1:28:51] might have done before he was running

[1:28:54] down the street,

[1:28:56] but he was running down the street.

[1:28:58] Anybody who watched those cameras knew

[1:29:01] that he was not attacking

[1:29:05] anyone.

[1:29:07] And when he was brought down

[1:29:11] and told to put his hands behind his

[1:29:14] back when he had a number of bullets in

[1:29:17] his body already and probably was in a

[1:29:20] state of shock if not dying right there

[1:29:23] and then shot I don't remember if he was

[1:29:27] shot again after that and I really don't

[1:29:29] care whether he was or not. I have been

[1:29:32] astounded. Those of you who know me

[1:29:35] better than others know that I spent an

[1:29:37] awful lot of my life professionally

[1:29:40] working in and around state government.

[1:29:44] And I have been so saddened by what is

[1:29:46] happening in our country and in our

[1:29:49] world by people who are in positions of

[1:29:52] power and are not

[1:29:56] using their power

[1:29:59] and their responsibilities to their

[1:30:02] constituents to do what is right.

[1:30:05] And I believe that we have a

[1:30:09] responsibility

[1:30:10] as a community and I think as our

[1:30:12] elected officials that responsibility

[1:30:14] lies with the five of you and we need to

[1:30:19] figure out how to make this change so

[1:30:23] that we don't ever have this kind of

[1:30:25] situation again. And I don't know where

[1:30:28] you're going to find police officers,

[1:30:29] but when I heard that those police

[1:30:31] officers, one of them had at most three

[1:30:33] years with our force, some of them were

[1:30:36] there for a couple of months, and I

[1:30:38] didn't know that they were not, many of

[1:30:41] them members of our community.

[1:30:44] It's just way too easy to do what they

[1:30:47] did. And I understand it's not an easy

[1:30:50] job. And I understand it's a stressful

[1:30:52] job, but there is

[1:30:56] unbelievable disdain for life

[1:30:59] that causes one to pull a trigger

[1:31:04] >> on a young person

[1:31:07] » on a young person

[1:31:07] who was not attacking them

[1:31:10] >> and who from the looks of the arms that

[1:31:12] » and who from the looks of the arms that

[1:31:12] I could see on those cameras could have

[1:31:16] easily

[1:31:18] taken that young man down without having

[1:31:21] to shoot him, but after the first shot

[1:31:23] could probably have handled everything.

[1:31:26] And I just implore you, first of all, I

[1:31:29] implore you

[1:31:31] to seriously consider getting rid of our

[1:31:33] chief of police,

[1:31:35] >> a person who talks about

[1:31:38] » a person who talks about

[1:31:38] minorities coming into our community

[1:31:42] to do criminal acts. When the It sounds

[1:31:44] like the people who used to tell me when

[1:31:46] I was on the school board that the

[1:31:47] minority kids that come into our schools

[1:31:49] or who are causing the problems with our

[1:31:52] scores, that wasn't the case. That just

[1:31:54] wasn't the case. And we hear that kind

[1:31:57] of rhetoric in our country all the time

[1:32:00] now from the highest levels. And it's

[1:32:03] disgusting and it's disturbing.

[1:32:07] I believe in government. I believe in

[1:32:10] democracy and I believe in

[1:32:12] accountability

[1:32:14] and I would like to say I believe in the

[1:32:16] five of you. I would like desperately to

[1:32:20] see you do what I believe is right.

[1:32:23] Thank you. [applause]

[1:32:25] >> Thank you. Is there anyone else who

[1:32:27] » Thank you. Is there anyone else who

[1:32:27] would like to speak?

[1:32:31] >> Please state your name for the record.

[1:32:32] » Please state your name for the record.

[1:32:32] >> Good evening. Kelly Ellsworth Etches.

[1:32:36] » Good evening. Kelly Ellsworth Etches.

[1:32:36] I want to remind you of a fun

[1:32:39] fundamental promise that seems to be

[1:32:42] lost on the East Lancing Police.

[1:32:45] That fundamental promise located in the

[1:32:48] 14th amendment of the Constitution

[1:32:51] called due process of law.

[1:32:55] when state or local governmental bodies

[1:32:59] have the authority, the power to take

[1:33:02] life, liberty, or property.

[1:33:06] That's why it's there. So that there is

[1:33:09] a due process.

[1:33:12] Mr. Isaiah Kirby did not receive due

[1:33:15] process.

[1:33:18] Your position comes with great

[1:33:20] responsibility.

[1:33:22] And here's your opportunity to write

[1:33:25] this wrong.

[1:33:28] Remove Jen Brown and Robert Bellman.

[1:33:34] [applause]

[1:33:39] » Thank you. If you could state your name

[1:33:41] for the record, please.

[1:33:42] >> Good evening. My [clears throat] name is

[1:33:43] » Good evening. My [clears throat] name is

[1:33:43] Farhan Omar. Uh, I wanted to discuss a

[1:33:46] few things real quick. Um, this case is

[1:33:49] not about the difference between

[1:33:50] stopping a threat. This case is about

[1:33:52] the difference between stopping a threat

[1:33:54] and continuing to use deadly force after

[1:33:56] that threat no longer exists. For

[1:33:59] example, imagine an intruder that breaks

[1:34:03] into your home and steals your property.

[1:34:05] The law still places limits on what you

[1:34:10] are allowed to do. For example, you

[1:34:12] cannot shoot a person in the back as

[1:34:15] they flee. Even though they broke into

[1:34:17] your home and they stole your property,

[1:34:18] you cannot shoot them because they are

[1:34:20] no longer a threat. The justification

[1:34:23] for deadly force disappears.

[1:34:27] The same principle applies here. The

[1:34:29] moment Mr. Kirby was struck by the

[1:34:31] initial rounds of gunfire, he no longer

[1:34:33] posed a threat to the officers.

[1:34:36] We know this not from speculation,

[1:34:39] but from one of the officers own words

[1:34:42] when they said, "Let's use less lethal

[1:34:45] force.

[1:34:46] Those are not the words of someone

[1:34:48] facing an immediate deadly threat.

[1:34:52] >> Those are the words of someone

[1:34:53] » Those are the words of someone

[1:34:53] recognizing that that danger had already

[1:34:56] passed.

[1:34:58] So there was no need to keep shooting

[1:35:00] that young man.

[1:35:03] He did not pose a threat to those

[1:35:05] officers or to the community any longer.

[1:35:08] With that being said, I want to directly

[1:35:10] address Mayor Alman.

[1:35:14] Mr. Almond, you are gambling with black

[1:35:18] people lives.

[1:35:20] You are single-handedly gambling with

[1:35:23] black people lives.

[1:35:26] You pose a colossal danger to this

[1:35:28] community, to the black community. You

[1:35:31] pose a bigger threat to the black

[1:35:32] community than the chief.

[1:35:36] Some of the things that you put on this

[1:35:37] agenda.

[1:35:39] Some of the things that you put on this

[1:35:41] agenda, whether it's intentional or not,

[1:35:43] it is harming this community, the black

[1:35:45] community, limiting how long we can

[1:35:47] speak. Sergeants in arms in this place.

[1:35:51] Really? How many times have we all

[1:35:54] witnessed after a Michigan State versus

[1:35:57] Michigan game, a bunch of white kids

[1:36:00] setting couches on fire in this city?

[1:36:03] >> How many times have we seen white kids

[1:36:04] » How many times have we seen white kids

[1:36:04] climbing poles in this city?

[1:36:07] How many times have we seen black kids

[1:36:10] setting tire white kids setting tires on

[1:36:12] fire in this city? I've never heard a a

[1:36:16] chief described them as a problem to

[1:36:20] this community.

[1:36:22] I've never seen a mayor try to limit the

[1:36:25] voices of white people when they pack

[1:36:26] this room.

[1:36:28] I've never seen or heard Sergeants and

[1:36:32] Arm being recommended.

[1:36:37] When I look at you, Mr. Almond, you

[1:36:39] remind me of the governors back in the

[1:36:42] day and the mayors back in the day that

[1:36:45] that used to use the National Guard

[1:36:47] against MLK.

[1:36:50] They use they used to use the police

[1:36:53] force,

[1:36:56] the dogs, the water hose.

[1:37:00] It's 2026.

[1:37:02] We see it.

[1:37:04] We notice it.

[1:37:07] Stop it. We've been coming here for

[1:37:11] months, for weeks, telling you guys a

[1:37:14] black kid is going to die in this city

[1:37:15] if y'all don't stop.

[1:37:18] I've come out here. The black community,

[1:37:20] black leaders have come out here. The

[1:37:21] NAACP have come out come out here. It

[1:37:24] wasn't enough.

[1:37:26] And then guess what? Another black

[1:37:28] person is going to die in the city.

[1:37:30] Unfortunately,

[1:37:32] and then what? What is going to be a

[1:37:34] response?

[1:37:36] This is the same body that has made it

[1:37:39] impossible for Dana Watson to to do her

[1:37:42] job as a council member.

[1:37:44] >> You guys ran her out of counsel.

[1:37:48] » You guys ran her out of counsel.

[1:37:48] It is you guys.

[1:37:51] It is you Wheeling. It is you Mark

[1:37:54] Meadows. It is you Almond. And is you

[1:37:56] miss Singh that keep passing every

[1:37:58] single harmful law or ordinance in this

[1:38:01] city.

[1:38:04] It is y'all

[1:38:07] and it's also the city manager which

[1:38:09] which responds to you guys. You guys are

[1:38:11] their boss or his boss. So therefore,

[1:38:14] the blame comes to you guys.

[1:38:16] I'm so sick and tired of the excuses.

[1:38:18] I'm so sick and tired of these everybody

[1:38:20] just looking at us in disgust as if

[1:38:22] we're the problem. Really? Have you ever

[1:38:25] been pulled over by a cop? Do Do you get

[1:38:28] scared when you get pulled over by a

[1:38:29] cop? I do. And my record is just as

[1:38:32] clean as yours, Mr. Hallman. I have full

[1:38:34] insurance just like you, but I still get

[1:38:37] scared. Not because I'm a criminal, but

[1:38:40] because I'm black.

[1:38:42] You should be ashamed of yourself.

[1:38:44] >> Thank you. Is there anyone else who

[1:38:46] » Thank you. Is there anyone else who

[1:38:46] would like to address the council?

[1:38:52] Le June I was not planning to speak but

[1:38:55] there's been a group of people meeting

[1:38:56] in the community and they formed a

[1:39:00] coalition called Citizen for Justice

[1:39:04] and we've kind of tried to concretize

[1:39:08] all of the things that you've been

[1:39:09] hearing here tonight in terms of eight

[1:39:12] demands

[1:39:14] and that we hope to follow through and

[1:39:17] work with you in bringing about

[1:39:21] We come in the spirit of Amos who said,

[1:39:24] "Let justice roll down like waters."

[1:39:27] Micah, who said, "I will tell thee, oh

[1:39:30] mortal, what is right, and what does God

[1:39:33] require of you, but to do justice, love

[1:39:37] mercy, and walk humbly with God."

[1:39:40] So,

[1:39:42] our first demand

[1:39:45] is for the immediate removal of the

[1:39:46] police chief, Jen Brown, through

[1:39:49] termination or resignation. We've talked

[1:39:52] to some of you and you indicate to us

[1:39:54] that the city council does not hire. So,

[1:39:58] our second demand is going to ask for a

[1:40:01] meeting with Mr. Bellman so we can talk

[1:40:04] about things within your jurisdiction.

[1:40:07] and we request a meeting before May 29th

[1:40:11] to talk about a series of things. Now,

[1:40:14] let me go back to

[1:40:16] the number one request which we are

[1:40:18] making and you've heard that in detail.

[1:40:21] In my experience, when someone

[1:40:25] is leading an organization and multiple

[1:40:28] things happen, at minimum, you generally

[1:40:31] remove that person

[1:40:34] even if you're doing an investigation.

[1:40:36] And we're kind of puzzled why she has

[1:40:39] not at least been temporarily, but we're

[1:40:42] requesting her removal. And we do that.

[1:40:44] She might be a nice person, but that's

[1:40:46] not the issue. She has lost her

[1:40:48] credibility.

[1:40:50] >> And when one lose their credibility,

[1:40:52] » And when one lose their credibility,

[1:40:52] they're ineffective as a leader.

[1:40:55] The other five demands, and my T clock

[1:40:58] is ticking, is we want a

[1:41:02] police policy rewritten with the East

[1:41:05] Lancing Independent Police Oversight

[1:41:07] Committee that requires extensive

[1:41:09] anti-racism training for all East

[1:41:12] Lancing employees, approved by the

[1:41:14] director of diversity, equity, and

[1:41:16] inclusion.

[1:41:18] We want

[1:41:20] uh a police policy regarding

[1:41:23] deescalation.

[1:41:24] And would you bring those sheets up? I

[1:41:28] don't have time to go through them in

[1:41:29] all details.

[1:41:31] >> We want to restore full funding for

[1:41:33] » We want to restore full funding for

[1:41:33] Ellipot and HRC.

[1:41:35] Require input from Ellip and HRC on

[1:41:39] various things. And I don't have time to

[1:41:42] go through all of them, but what we're

[1:41:44] going to do as a coalition is to

[1:41:46] continue to monitor these and ask you to

[1:41:50] act upon them in a reasonable time.

[1:41:55] So

[1:41:57] you've heard those demands

[1:42:00] and we think they are reasonable. Now,

[1:42:02] we also have empathy for Mr. Mock. We

[1:42:06] want people to know that we wish his

[1:42:08] continued speedy recovery, but this act

[1:42:12] and his act are two separate ones. And I

[1:42:15] we appreciate uh two things that I know

[1:42:18] this happened. Um it's my understanding

[1:42:22] that the mayor and the city manager did

[1:42:25] speak to

[1:42:27] Mrs. Kirby. And if that's true, we

[1:42:30] appreciate it. And we appreciate you,

[1:42:32] Mr. Grisby in terms of having your

[1:42:35] session yesterday, but we need to move

[1:42:38] forward on these kinds of things. I

[1:42:40] watched the videotape

[1:42:43] and I

[1:42:46] debated whether to say this, but

[1:42:49] I came away and one word struck me and

[1:42:53] that word was slaughtered.

[1:42:56] And I looked up the definition of

[1:42:58] slaughtered. And slaughter mean to kill

[1:43:01] in a brutal, violent or indiscriminate

[1:43:04] manner. It is most commonly referred to

[1:43:06] butchering livestock for food or mass

[1:43:10] killing of humans in war. And I walked

[1:43:14] away feeling that this young man was

[1:43:17] butchered and slaughtered. So we are

[1:43:21] disappointed in what happened. Dr. King,

[1:43:23] you talk about him. You know, I heard

[1:43:25] him speak in person a couple times,

[1:43:27] >> 30 seconds,

[1:43:27] » 30 seconds,

[1:43:27] >> but King said there can be no great

[1:43:29] » but King said there can be no great

[1:43:29] disappointment where there's no love.

[1:43:32] And so, we come in love. We want to work

[1:43:34] with you. We've talked to some of you

[1:43:36] and we'll continue to do that. And we

[1:43:38] love this community and we want to work

[1:43:41] together with you to make this happen.

[1:43:44] And King, I'll stop with this. He often

[1:43:47] told us as young people in Alabama, he

[1:43:49] said, "How long?"

[1:43:51] Then he would always tell us, "Not

[1:43:53] long." And then he would remind us, I I

[1:43:56] know my time is up. I got 10 more

[1:43:57] seconds. He would say, "How long? Not

[1:44:00] long. Because no lie can live forever."

[1:44:04] >> How long? Not long. Because true

[1:44:06] » How long? Not long. Because true

[1:44:06] structure earth will rise again. How

[1:44:10] long? Not long.

[1:44:12] Because the ark of the moral universe is

[1:44:15] long,

[1:44:17] but it bends toward justice.

[1:44:18] >> Thank you. Thank you.

[1:44:19] » Thank you. Thank you.

[1:44:19] >> And I can predict tonight. I'm sitting

[1:44:21] » And I can predict tonight. I'm sitting

[1:44:21] is that eventually Miss Brown will be

[1:44:24] let go since your time has expired

[1:44:25] >> and we're just curious why it's taken so

[1:44:27] » and we're just curious why it's taken so

[1:44:27] long.

[1:44:28] >> Is there anyone else who would like to

[1:44:30] » Is there anyone else who would like to

[1:44:30] speak to the council? [applause]

[1:44:35] » Good evening. My name is Jacqueline

[1:44:36] Humphrey and I'm a resident of Lancing.

[1:44:40] And I didn't come tonight to speak, but

[1:44:42] this situation reminded me so much of

[1:44:44] Patrick Leola

[1:44:46] who died at the hands of a police

[1:44:49] officer in Grand Rapids. And I happen to

[1:44:52] know the family personally because my

[1:44:54] husband and I started an outreach

[1:44:56] ministry with the resettle of refugees

[1:44:58] back in n uh 2005.

[1:45:02] And this young man was only stopped. He

[1:45:04] was stopped because the of the license

[1:45:07] plate on the car and Patrick ran. The

[1:45:10] policeman tried to tase him, he grabbed

[1:45:13] the taser. The policeman then ran after

[1:45:17] him. And as he hel held him down the

[1:45:20] ground and handcuffed him, he was on his

[1:45:22] stomach. The police shot him in the

[1:45:24] head.

[1:45:25] And there was no justice for him because

[1:45:28] there's an all-white jury who were hung

[1:45:31] and the police officer did not spend a

[1:45:34] day. He's not going to spend any time. I

[1:45:38] hope there's justice. I hope there's

[1:45:40] justice for Isaiah and the police

[1:45:43] officer regardless of whatever whatever

[1:45:45] you they come up with that he should

[1:45:48] definitely spend the rest of his life in

[1:45:50] prison. I'm sorry. That's just how I

[1:45:52] feel. But it's so sad because we have a

[1:45:56] son and for years we told him if a

[1:45:59] police officer stops you get to a light

[1:46:02] a very well-lit area a gas station and

[1:46:05] call us. We want to be there because

[1:46:08] there's people that don't believe

[1:46:10] profiling is real. It's extremely real.

[1:46:14] And our daughters when they graduated

[1:46:16] from high school wanted nothing to do

[1:46:19] with Michigan State. They did not want

[1:46:21] to go to a white university and they

[1:46:23] chose to go to H.B.CU where they care

[1:46:27] about them and they graduated and said

[1:46:30] that was the best experience they could

[1:46:31] have had. But they did not want to come

[1:46:34] here because I was an employee at the

[1:46:36] time and they could have gotten their

[1:46:37] tuition half but for they did not want

[1:46:40] to come and we certainly didn't force

[1:46:42] them. And so there is the issue here.

[1:46:45] And you know I I as others have said the

[1:46:48] faces and as you're looking

[1:46:51] [sighs and gasps]

[1:46:52] I hope you have the heart that your

[1:46:54] hearts are not so hardened

[1:46:56] [clears throat] that you can see that

[1:46:58] there is a serious problem here. And I

[1:47:01] just want to say as an associate pastor

[1:47:04] if you don't do the right thing God will

[1:47:06] fix this.

[1:47:08] >> God is going to take care of all of

[1:47:10] » God is going to take care of all of

[1:47:10] this. And so if you can't come to a

[1:47:12] decision, he's going to take care of our

[1:47:15] president. He's going to take care of

[1:47:16] this country. And he's going to take

[1:47:18] care of each and every one of you. So I

[1:47:21] just I just you all to please think

[1:47:25] about what you're doing here, the people

[1:47:27] who are affected, and the fact that

[1:47:30] Isaiah, no person needs to have 17

[1:47:34] bullets in their body. Only one could

[1:47:37] kill a person. How many times?

[1:47:40] And whatever was going on with the

[1:47:42] police officer, it didn't take all that.

[1:47:44] It didn't take 17 bullets.

[1:47:49] So Patrick being shot in the head is no

[1:47:52] different from him. And I know for a

[1:47:54] fact that Patrick was scared. He ran

[1:47:57] because he was scared. And all they

[1:47:59] really had to do is put handcuffs

[1:48:03] handcuffs on him and take him to jail.

[1:48:05] But they didn't.

[1:48:08] They shot him in the back of the head.

[1:48:11] So that's what we call justice in the

[1:48:14] United States. And it's a sad state that

[1:48:17] we're in. It's really, really sad. And

[1:48:19] it hurts my heart. And I thank Teresa

[1:48:23] uh who's the attorney for the family

[1:48:25] because I know she's going to work hard

[1:48:28] with the family and will seek justice.

[1:48:30] And I just hope that there is justice

[1:48:33] for Isaiah, but more so there's justice

[1:48:35] for the people of East Lancing.

[1:48:38] [applause]

[1:48:39] >> Thank you. Is there anyone else who

[1:48:41] » Thank you. Is there anyone else who

[1:48:41] would like to speak?

[1:48:46] » Hi. Uh my name is Marissa Gaines. I

[1:48:50] never been to a city council meeting

[1:48:52] before. Um it's been very entertaining.

[1:48:55] I also didn't plan to get up and speak

[1:48:57] today. I

[1:48:59] what everyone has said has been very

[1:49:01] enlightening. Um I didn't watch the

[1:49:04] video of Isaiah because I didn't think

[1:49:06] I'd be able to handle it. I grew up with

[1:49:09] him. We grew up in Baltimore City.

[1:49:12] We grew up in Baltimore City.

[1:49:16] The crime there is unbelievable.

[1:49:19] And we both were at Michigan State. And

[1:49:24] a lot of the times when a person from

[1:49:25] Baltimore City gets out of Baltimore

[1:49:27] City, we say that we made it because we

[1:49:30] made it out of Baltimore City. Nothing

[1:49:32] happened to us. We ran track. We were

[1:49:35] close. We were family. We made it out of

[1:49:38] Baltimore City.

[1:49:40] The fact that he couldn't make it here

[1:49:42] in East Lancing is that's not okay. It's

[1:49:45] it's a really difficult thing. And and

[1:49:47] when we found out that Isaiah passed

[1:49:50] away in East Lancing, but he made it out

[1:49:53] of Baltimore City,

[1:49:56] it's not okay. I I don't have that much

[1:49:58] to say other than that. We're We were

[1:50:00] just two kids from Baltimore City in

[1:50:03] college trying to get our education. We

[1:50:04] thought that we made it. That was our I

[1:50:06] made it moment. He was headed to Texas.

[1:50:08] He was going to get a good job. He was

[1:50:10] excited.

[1:50:12] I I didn't watch the video. I know very

[1:50:14] limited information. I just know that we

[1:50:16] are two kids from Baltimore City who

[1:50:18] made it and then he didn't. And and

[1:50:21] we're just calling for justice. That's

[1:50:22] that's all I have to say. Thank you.

[1:50:25] >> Thank you. Is there anyone else who

[1:50:28] » Thank you. Is there anyone else who

[1:50:28] would like to speak?

[1:50:32] » Please state your name for the record.

[1:50:34] >> Uh my name is Antonio Gomez. To the

[1:50:37] » Uh my name is Antonio Gomez. To the

[1:50:37] crowd, I'm apologize. I'm pretty

[1:50:39] emotional right now, so [snorts] not

[1:50:42] really sure what I'm going to say, but

[1:50:46] I watched a video like a lot of people

[1:50:48] did.

[1:50:49] Um,

[1:50:51] it's clear there's a severe lack of

[1:50:53] training within our police department

[1:50:56] that they would put themselves

[1:50:59] in danger

[1:51:01] and use an excuse of deadly force

[1:51:03] because they put themselves in danger.

[1:51:07] And

[1:51:11] it just makes me mad that you were given

[1:51:13] the recommendation that this police

[1:51:15] chief was not a good fit for this city.

[1:51:20] Um, and

[1:51:23] you are putting the city in danger. You

[1:51:26] are putting us in danger by having a

[1:51:28] police chief that obviously is not doing

[1:51:32] her job correctly with unqualified

[1:51:35] officers that put us all at risk

[1:51:38] for any small thing that could happen.

[1:51:44] And

[1:51:46] I, you know, I'm not really sure you're

[1:51:48] listening to us. Like I I've only just

[1:51:51] started talking recently, but I know

[1:51:53] others have been here time and time and

[1:51:56] time again, and it just looks like

[1:51:58] nothing's getting through to any of you.

[1:52:05] I guess the these next remarks go to the

[1:52:07] crowd. I mean, I just don't have faith

[1:52:10] in any of these people. They have

[1:52:15] if they want me to have faith in them,

[1:52:16] it's too late. It's gone. It's been

[1:52:19] taken away by their lack of action

[1:52:22] across the board. Like, I do not have

[1:52:25] faith that a former police officer will

[1:52:27] hold his people accountable. I don't

[1:52:29] have faith that a person I've seen lie

[1:52:32] to people will start telling the truth.

[1:52:34] I don't have faith that someone I'm

[1:52:36] worried might be a racist will soon find

[1:52:39] themselves to be a good person. I don't

[1:52:40] have faith that like a c a coward will

[1:52:43] find the courage. And I don't have

[1:52:45] faith. The lady that seems to just look

[1:52:47] the other way time and time again will,

[1:52:50] you know, just decide that she's going

[1:52:52] to actually pay attention when serious

[1:52:54] accusations are brought forward against

[1:52:57] the, you know, city manager. I don't

[1:52:59] have faith anywhere. I don't have faith

[1:53:01] in you at all. I don't know why you want

[1:53:04] this job. You should just all resign.

[1:53:10] You are putting our city in danger.

[1:53:14] You are turning your power against the

[1:53:16] people here.

[1:53:18] Leave. Get out. I don't want you here.

[1:53:22] And I'm pretty sure a lot of people

[1:53:23] don't want you here.

[1:53:26] Thank you. Is there anyone else who

[1:53:29] would like to address the council?

[1:53:37] » Hello. Um, my name is Carolina Wheeler.

[1:53:40] I'm a rising senior at MSU. I moved here

[1:53:44] from Kentucky um in 2023 and one of the

[1:53:48] things I was most excited about about

[1:53:51] going to school out of state, going up

[1:53:54] north was thinking that things would be

[1:53:57] different, largely more progressive,

[1:54:01] um and while I certainly see less

[1:54:03] Confederate flags flown around my

[1:54:05] neighborhood,

[1:54:08] um y'all, it's it's very real down

[1:54:10] there. Um,

[1:54:13] there are certain things that I'm

[1:54:15] learning that are so pervasive and

[1:54:19] insidious within American society and

[1:54:22] American institutions that there is no

[1:54:24] escaping them. Um, even what seems to be

[1:54:28] a liberal college town.

[1:54:32] So, I suppose I was naive, but I started

[1:54:36] off naive. Um, I was raised in Kentucky

[1:54:39] in the south by affluent white

[1:54:42] Republicans. Um, and I remember being

[1:54:45] taught about the police as a child, not

[1:54:48] much older than or fairly probably

[1:54:51] younger than the child who spoke here

[1:54:53] earlier tonight. um and being taught

[1:54:56] that the police were brave, valiant

[1:54:59] public servants whose job was to protect

[1:55:02] people and ensure order and keep society

[1:55:07] safe.

[1:55:08] Um obviously

[1:55:11] throughout my adult life, I've learned

[1:55:14] the true history of policing in America.

[1:55:18] you know, starting with

[1:55:21] the the incredibly violent history of

[1:55:25] slave patrols,

[1:55:27] um the enforcement of vagrancy laws

[1:55:30] through the 70s. That's crazy.

[1:55:33] Um the brutal crackdowns on the civil

[1:55:36] rights movement, the war on drugs,

[1:55:39] there's no denying that policing in

[1:55:42] America is rotten to the core. And

[1:55:45] that's something that no city can

[1:55:48] escape, no town, regardless of purported

[1:55:52] reform or changes in leadership

[1:55:57] or, you know, really really much that

[1:56:00] they try to do um to to make policing

[1:56:03] better. Um

[1:56:06] and so

[1:56:10] I've presented two sort of definitions

[1:56:12] of the American policing system here.

[1:56:15] One is that they are they're brave and

[1:56:17] they protect us. And one is that they

[1:56:20] are deeply flawed and the original

[1:56:23] intent is something much graver than is

[1:56:26] presented to Americans. And in light of

[1:56:29] this incident with Isaiah Kirby,

[1:56:33] um there's really only two conclusions

[1:56:35] you can make. Um one for each of those.

[1:56:39] either a the specific officers involved

[1:56:42] in Isaiah Kirby's death were in fact not

[1:56:44] the valiant public servants I was taught

[1:56:46] about in school but rather cowards in

[1:56:49] body armor and tactical shields and

[1:56:54] armed with tasers and pistols and foam

[1:56:59] foam thingy

[1:57:01] I forgot the term for it I saw them load

[1:57:03] it in the video um it's interesting that

[1:57:07] it was there was no attempt made to

[1:57:10] deploy that but it wouldn't have changed

[1:57:13] anything probably.

[1:57:16] Anyways, B the second option is that the

[1:57:18] Carlson institution of policing in

[1:57:20] America is irrevocably intertwined with

[1:57:23] racism towards black Americans without

[1:57:25] exception. I kind of already said that.

[1:57:28] Um

[1:57:30] anyways, to wrap up, I wanted to make

[1:57:33] the point that violent crime is not

[1:57:35] something that ever happens within a

[1:57:37] vacuum. Um it happens because societal

[1:57:40] conditions are created by the

[1:57:42] institutions and they are sustained by

[1:57:44] these institutions. Violent crime is

[1:57:47] contributed to by mental health crisis,

[1:57:50] substance abuse, housing insecurity, and

[1:57:53] even as we see now, episodes of

[1:57:56] psychosis triggered and/or egged on by

[1:57:58] the sickopantic tendencies of

[1:57:59] unregulated large language models which

[1:58:02] cities around the country are promoting

[1:58:06] via allowing data centers. Um, all of

[1:58:10] these are also interconnected with

[1:58:13] broader societal issues. Um and as we

[1:58:16] see the American government shift

[1:58:18] towards

[1:58:20] um more authoritar authoritarian rule

[1:58:22] and defunding public service programs

[1:58:25] like um you know healthcare etc and

[1:58:28] housing um these are only going to get

[1:58:31] worse and East Lancing has to figure out

[1:58:32] a way to deal with these problems that

[1:58:35] cause violent crime at the root and not

[1:58:37] to try and cut the buds.

[1:58:40] >> Thank you. Is there anyone else?

[1:58:43] » Thank you. Is there anyone else?

[1:58:43] [applause]

[1:58:45] » Please state your name for the record.

[1:58:47] >> Yes, I'm Dr. Sharon Hobbs. I'm a

[1:58:49] » Yes, I'm Dr. Sharon Hobbs. I'm a

[1:58:49] clinical psychologist. Uh, I've been

[1:58:52] here 42 years. I was born and raised in

[1:58:56] Harlem, New York. I am not a small town

[1:58:59] girl.

[1:59:01] I'm also on the East Lancing Independent

[1:59:04] Police Oversight Committee

[1:59:08] Commission rather and I have watched for

[1:59:12] the last four years this council's

[1:59:16] unwavering effort to take away any voice

[1:59:22] that we as commissioners could expound

[1:59:26] on in terms of the needs and concerns

[1:59:30] that citizen Citizens in East Lancing

[1:59:32] have we were supposed to be by ordinance

[1:59:36] their voice, but the council has felt

[1:59:41] that

[1:59:42] it's best to keep us quiet.

[1:59:45] Early on when we had concerns about how

[1:59:49] police officers were handling all

[1:59:52] citizens, not just black citizens, how

[1:59:55] they did not know how to deal with

[1:59:58] mental health crisis. Mental health

[2:00:00] issues are not just with the black

[2:00:02] community. There's mental health issues

[2:00:05] in all aspects of our community and our

[2:00:07] police have not been trained to handle

[2:00:10] them.

[2:00:12] Many years ago when my son was a

[2:00:14] teenager and he was about six feet tall

[2:00:16] and about 200 lb, he and his friend were

[2:00:19] sitting across the street from my house

[2:00:21] in Shaw States. He was smoking. Um he

[2:00:24] had finished smoking by the time the

[2:00:26] police drove through, but the police

[2:00:28] officer felt that there was a need to

[2:00:31] get out of his car and walk over to my

[2:00:34] son and his friend who is also

[2:00:37] African-American to ask why were they

[2:00:40] there?

[2:00:42] My son said, "I live across the street."

[2:00:46] And he pointed to our house, which was a

[2:00:47] very unusual looking house. And the

[2:00:50] officer said, "That's Dr. Hobbs's

[2:00:53] house." And he said, "I'm Dr. Hobbs's

[2:00:56] son." The next day, that police officer

[2:01:00] came to my office to apologize because

[2:01:03] when he told his wife, his wife said

[2:01:06] that was racist.

[2:01:08] And so he came and apologized to me and

[2:01:11] later apologized to my son.

[2:01:15] I feel sorry for the police officers who

[2:01:19] shot Isaiah

[2:01:23] because I don't think you all give a

[2:01:24] damn about those officers.

[2:01:28] I think you care much more

[2:01:31] about

[2:01:33] East Lancing and the glory of East

[2:01:35] Lancing.

[2:01:37] When you shoot someone,

[2:01:39] even if they're your enemy in war, it it

[2:01:44] hits you in the heart.

[2:01:47] And we put these police officers in

[2:01:51] these positions without giving them the

[2:01:54] training and the sensitivity training

[2:01:57] that is required. You can't be a police

[2:02:00] officer and not think quickly on your

[2:02:03] feet. When your police chief says

[2:02:07] minorities coming into the community of

[2:02:10] the problem and you see this young man

[2:02:13] with a knife, is that not a minority

[2:02:15] who's come into this community, this

[2:02:18] wonderful community to cause problems? I

[2:02:21] mean, the police officers

[2:02:24] have been set up and I think there's a

[2:02:27] lot of work that can be do be done with

[2:02:29] our police officers. I don't think

[2:02:31] they're all a piece of crap. And no, I

[2:02:33] don't want these men to go to prison for

[2:02:36] the rest of their lives. I want them to

[2:02:39] have plenty of time to think about what

[2:02:42] their actions did, not only to Isaiah

[2:02:45] and his family, but to all of us, black

[2:02:48] and white.

[2:02:50] The commission

[2:02:52] said Jen Brown after having served as a

[2:02:56] temporary person was not right for this

[2:02:59] community. But I I interviewed I

[2:03:02] interviewed the candidates and she was

[2:03:04] not the strongest candidate. But our

[2:03:06] city attorney I mean rather our city

[2:03:09] manager seemed to have a special liking

[2:03:12] for her. So that even the questions were

[2:03:15] geared for her. How can somebody who's

[2:03:18] coming from across the country know

[2:03:20] about our annual reports? So, even the

[2:03:23] interviews were geared for her. I don't

[2:03:25] know why he is so enamored of her, but I

[2:03:28] do know she is not good for East

[2:03:31] Lancing. We've got to do better. Some of

[2:03:34] you I've known for a long time, like

[2:03:36] Mark, and I must say, Mark, I am very

[2:03:39] disappointed. I thought you would be at

[2:03:42] least a voice here and be heard. and

[2:03:44] I've known your husband forever.

[2:03:48] We've got to do better.

[2:03:51] >> Thank you. Is there anyone else who

[2:03:53] » Thank you. Is there anyone else who

[2:03:53] would like to speak?

[2:03:56] >> Please state your name for the record.

[2:03:58] » Please state your name for the record.

[2:03:58] >> Olivier Strad.

[2:04:01] » Olivier Strad.

[2:04:01] Uh first off, I just wanted to say what

[2:04:04] I saw um from the body cam footage was a

[2:04:08] young man who was shot several times

[2:04:10] after he was already on the ground. Um,

[2:04:12] and in international law, this is

[2:04:15] considered, you know, a war crime. Um,

[2:04:18] shooting somebody after they're already

[2:04:21] down uh is considered double tapping.

[2:04:24] Um,

[2:04:28] also on the 13th, I one of you guys said

[2:04:31] that um, you can't predict this kind of

[2:04:33] tragedy and I've heard nothing but the

[2:04:35] community telling you that this was

[2:04:37] predicted.

[2:04:39] Um uh

[2:04:42] I mainly wanted to come up here to say

[2:04:46] this. Um I apologize. Uh it's going to

[2:04:50] be hard for me to get through this, but

[2:04:51] um I I lived by where this incident used

[2:04:54] to or where this incident happened. Um I

[2:04:57] I lived with a young black man who

[2:04:59] dreamed of being a baker. Um he would

[2:05:01] make me the food that he hoped to put in

[2:05:03] his restaurant someday. Um, oh, right

[2:05:06] after the MSU shooting, uh, he seriously

[2:05:10] wasn't doing well. Uh, and I reached out

[2:05:12] to the city because he, like me, um,

[2:05:14] didn't have a family that, uh,

[2:05:17] I could go to. And I I've I've had

[2:05:20] multiple white friends who I've been

[2:05:21] able to get mental help for, um, when

[2:05:24] they really needed it. Um, you know, and

[2:05:27] I I wasn't able to take care of him

[2:05:28] anymore because I had to go to a surgery

[2:05:31] um, and was going to be away for a

[2:05:32] while. uh the city sent the police. Um

[2:05:37] it just made him a lot worse. Uh and uh

[2:05:41] just with his mental headsp space, it

[2:05:43] could have ended up like this incident.

[2:05:46] Um which I think the police handled

[2:05:49] awfully. Um,

[2:05:55] when I returned from my surgery, um, I

[2:05:57] walked into an active unmarked crime

[2:06:00] scene where I found the, uh, you know,

[2:06:04] remnants of my roommates's last days.

[2:06:07] And so I guess um along with the fact

[2:06:11] that the police should have handled this

[2:06:14] situation completely differently from my

[2:06:17] experience, I don't understand how we um

[2:06:21] help people like retroactively.

[2:06:24] Um

[2:06:26] so that's all I wanted to say. [snorts]

[2:06:29] >> Thank you. Is there anyone else

[2:06:31] » Thank you. Is there anyone else

[2:06:31] [applause]

[2:06:32] who would like to address the council?

[2:06:38] Seeing none, are there any callers?

[2:06:40] >> There's one caller on the line. Caller

[2:06:42] » There's one caller on the line. Caller

[2:06:42] with your last name Austin, you are now

[2:06:44] free to address the council.

[2:06:53] Caller with your last name Austin, you

[2:06:55] are now free to address the council.

[2:07:01] » There are no callers remaining on the

[2:07:03] line.

[2:07:03] >> All right. Thank you. Uh that brings us

[2:07:06] » All right. Thank you. Uh that brings us

[2:07:06] to communications from council uh

[2:07:09] council member Whan.

[2:07:12] [snorts]

[2:07:18] It's very difficult to know what to say

[2:07:20] in a situation like this.

[2:07:23] Obviously our community is hurting.

[2:07:26] Um staff are hurting.

[2:07:29] >> [clears throat]

[2:07:29] » [clears throat]

[2:07:30] >> I wanted to originally talk about the

[2:07:31] » I wanted to originally talk about the

[2:07:31] Artfest and how incredible it was where

[2:07:34] people from all over the state came in

[2:07:37] to enjoy our community.

[2:07:39] Myself and um Mayor Tam Griggsby went to

[2:07:42] a Michigan Municipal League training

[2:07:45] this weekend on how we can be better at

[2:07:48] doing our jobs and it was very

[2:07:50] informative. I really appreciate uh my

[2:07:53] colleague

[2:07:56] just a reminder that we're not the

[2:07:57] investigative

[2:08:01] bureau of the situation.

[2:08:05] We are not getting any formal comments

[2:08:08] from the man who was stabbed many many

[2:08:10] times.

[2:08:13] We are not seeking other eyewitness

[2:08:16] accounts. We're not talking to those

[2:08:18] involved. We're not um

[2:08:24] and video does show just a portion of

[2:08:27] the situation.

[2:08:29] We're leaving this to the Michigan State

[2:08:31] Police because that's appropriate.

[2:08:34] It's not appropriate for the East

[2:08:35] Lancing Police Department to investigate

[2:08:37] the situation. So, we need to have an

[2:08:40] outside agency

[2:08:42] investigate that. That investigation

[2:08:45] takes time.

[2:08:47] Okay.

[2:08:49] There is lots of rules with council. We

[2:08:52] can't get together and talk.

[2:08:56] We there's an opens meetings act that is

[2:08:59] critical that we don't do business

[2:09:02] outside this room.

[2:09:04] So, um I do ask for patience and due

[2:09:08] process and patience in the situation.

[2:09:13] I do think there's a lot of people that

[2:09:15] have seen this and they've

[2:09:19] um

[2:09:22] it's traumatic and I think I want to

[2:09:25] make sure that we can reach out to

[2:09:26] mental health professionals

[2:09:29] to um be able to

[2:09:32] um deal with issues and

[2:09:35] um it's just very very difficult

[2:09:37] situations for everyone involved. It's

[2:09:40] very traumatic and I appreciate several

[2:09:43] of the comments that addressed that. Um,

[2:09:47] I guess that's all I have to say.

[2:09:49] >> Thank you, Council Member Meadows.

[2:09:55] » Well, I'll try to be, you know, fairly

[2:09:57] brief here.

[2:09:59] Um I I just want to say that um even

[2:10:03] though we may have poker faces while

[2:10:05] we're listening to people, I think that

[2:10:07] most of us want to make sure that people

[2:10:10] know that we are listening to them and

[2:10:13] by reacting sometimes it may uh indicate

[2:10:17] that we're we're not

[2:10:21] the uh you asked me specifically about

[2:10:24] lunge. I don't actually remember ever

[2:10:26] using the word lunge uh in relation to

[2:10:28] this in particular. It may have been a

[2:10:31] reporter's question and they used the

[2:10:33] word or something like that. But as I

[2:10:36] indicated last week, what I saw as of

[2:10:40] last week was the abbreviated version of

[2:10:43] this this particular incident. And in

[2:10:47] that incident, there is a moment in time

[2:10:50] just before this ends, before that ends

[2:10:53] where uh Isaiah moves from the bike lane

[2:10:57] into the regular, you know, part of the

[2:11:00] street and seems to be heading towards

[2:11:03] the police car. That's what I was

[2:11:06] referring to. But I want to emphasize

[2:11:09] the other things I said because they

[2:11:11] were characterized as being u

[2:11:14] insensitive

[2:11:15] uh by uh the attorney for the family who

[2:11:18] I've known for years and you know I want

[2:11:21] to make sure that I am not insensitive

[2:11:24] and want to emphasize that I meant what

[2:11:26] I said when I began to talk last week.

[2:11:29] Nobody

[2:11:40] who has a child

[2:11:43] wants to outlive that child.

[2:11:48] And uh you know I think u the tragedy of

[2:11:53] this is widespread.

[2:11:56] Even putting aside the [snorts]

[2:11:59] the number of bullets that might have

[2:12:00] been used, um [clears throat]

[2:12:03] the question I asked then is the

[2:12:05] question I ask now. We need to know what

[2:12:09] triggered all this. What was this mental

[2:12:12] health crisis? And I want to I

[2:12:14] represented the department of mental

[2:12:15] health for about 10 years and as

[2:12:18] assistant attorneys general had numerous

[2:12:21] lawsuits that I handled. And I just want

[2:12:24] to mention that

[2:12:27] this sort of schizophrenic

[2:12:30] burst

[2:12:32] is often we see that is between the ages

[2:12:35] of 18 and 24 and particularly among

[2:12:39] individuals who are highly intelligent.

[2:12:42] And by all accounts, by all reports,

[2:12:46] Isaiah was a highly intelligent student

[2:12:49] with a a life that he was planning to

[2:12:52] have. So, how did this happened that

[2:12:54] night?

[2:12:56] I want to know the answer to that, and

[2:12:57] I'll have a lot more to say about both

[2:13:00] the video and all of the evidence that

[2:13:03] we received because we don't have the

[2:13:04] toxicology report or the autopsy report

[2:13:08] at this point in time. But clearly,

[2:13:12] if this was a sudden mental health

[2:13:15] crisis,

[2:13:17] this is even more of a tragedy than it

[2:13:20] seems to me to be at this point in time.

[2:13:24] I agree that everybody who does wrong

[2:13:29] should be held accountable and I think

[2:13:31] somebody mentioned that at the at the

[2:13:33] microphone. That is the objective.

[2:13:35] That's the objective of the

[2:13:37] investigation

[2:13:39] and the objective of this council.

[2:13:42] The uh there's been a number of comments

[2:13:45] with regard to due process of law and

[2:13:47] due process is a is a big deal and um

[2:13:53] more than a big deal a big right of

[2:13:56] everyone who's involved in any incident

[2:13:58] like that. And that applies both to

[2:14:01] Isaiah and the due process of law that

[2:14:04] he had a right to and the due process of

[2:14:07] law that someone who might have violated

[2:14:10] his right to due process of law has in

[2:14:13] relation to that and we will go forward

[2:14:16] with that.

[2:14:18] Um, I think that there are a number of

[2:14:21] issues that were raised in my mind with

[2:14:24] regard to the video as I watched the

[2:14:26] entire video that was released and you

[2:14:29] know I will have further comments with

[2:14:31] regard to those at what I consider to be

[2:14:34] the correct time. I will note that while

[2:14:37] I appreciate all of the comments that

[2:14:41] were made tonight,

[2:14:43] Dr. Hob's comment is the one that stung

[2:14:46] with me. I don't want you ever

[2:14:48] disappointed in me. And uh like I say,

[2:14:52] I'll have a lot more to say about this.

[2:14:57] >> Thank you, Mayor Prom.

[2:14:59] » Thank you, Mayor Prom.

[2:14:59] Uh yes. Um so, uh I just want to thank

[2:15:03] everyone that came in and spoke tonight.

[2:15:06] Um and um I love the fact that you guys

[2:15:09] are organizing together um as a

[2:15:12] community and really showing out for

[2:15:15] what's important. Um I also want to just

[2:15:19] say to the group uh Citizen for Justice,

[2:15:23] uh I'm glad that you guys have um um

[2:15:27] organization and you have a list of

[2:15:30] things here that I see uh as what you

[2:15:33] call demands. And that's exactly where

[2:15:36] we are at. Um I mean you guys heard me

[2:15:40] talk talk and talk about you know things

[2:15:42] uh here in this format. Um and I'm ready

[2:15:45] to work and ready to look at how we can

[2:15:50] go forward. So, I'm urging the city

[2:15:52] manager to make sure that um he

[2:15:56] uh scratches out time um for the

[2:15:59] individuals that are involved with this

[2:16:01] um um by the deadline that they set. I

[2:16:05] think it's important for us to rearrange

[2:16:07] whatever schedules we have to start

[2:16:10] looking at this um as we go forward. Um

[2:16:14] I have a lot of questions. I have a lot

[2:16:17] of things that I don't I don't

[2:16:19] understand. Um I plan on asking some of

[2:16:22] those questions tonight. Um and again

[2:16:26] within that framework um and I know this

[2:16:30] is not you know but there is a due

[2:16:32] process for everyone involved just like

[2:16:34] council member Meadows says and that is

[2:16:38] really the structure the framework that

[2:16:40] this whole democracy is built on for us

[2:16:43] to go through this process. I know you

[2:16:45] want immediate action. I know you are

[2:16:47] tired of asking for the things you've

[2:16:48] been asking for um and demanding for um

[2:16:51] in regards to everything that's been

[2:16:54] said. And as I've said before, I said I

[2:16:57] wasn't going to be talking, but as I

[2:16:58] said before, when we have everything in

[2:17:01] front of us, we have the process that

[2:17:03] has been um set out by law and we are in

[2:17:08] a situation where we can act upon those

[2:17:10] in this particular setting, in this

[2:17:12] particular role and the particular

[2:17:14] responsibility that we have to the city

[2:17:16] and the community here in the city. Um I

[2:17:19] will uh just do that. So, um I think

[2:17:23] it's um um um

[2:17:28] absolutely imperative that we um

[2:17:32] continue hearing from you, continue

[2:17:35] hearing your stories, your experiences.

[2:17:38] Um and some of you have I worked with uh

[2:17:41] in the past when it comes to some of

[2:17:43] these issues and these issues were here

[2:17:45] before we got here. These issues are

[2:17:46] happening now. These issues going to be

[2:17:48] having here uh after we're gone. So, we

[2:17:51] have to do what we can, why we can, and

[2:17:54] uh as I said before, um it is so much

[2:17:57] more easier to do it with you than

[2:17:58] without you. Thank you.

[2:18:01] >> Thank you, Council Member Singh.

[2:18:13] I uh like many of you shared from the

[2:18:16] podium this evening am sad, angry, and

[2:18:22] sick.

[2:18:30] The video that was released that many of

[2:18:33] us watched uh was incredibly disturbing.

[2:18:38] » [clears throat]

[2:18:40] » From that review, uh, I have submitted a

[2:18:44] set of questions to the city manager and

[2:18:47] city attorney and I hope to gain some

[2:18:50] answers stemming from the release video.

[2:18:55] I want to recognize that

[2:18:58] um the community we are in collective

[2:19:02] pain

[2:19:03] and

[2:19:05] um

[2:19:11] this is going to be a long road ahead. I

[2:19:13] don't pretend that this is um something

[2:19:17] that

[2:19:20] is an easy set of solutions that we are

[2:19:22] faced with.

[2:19:24] Um that this has got to be a collective

[2:19:27] long-term path that we commit ourselves

[2:19:29] to.

[2:19:34] And I want to recognize beyond

[2:19:37] the awful events that happened April

[2:19:39] 15th

[2:19:41] that there is a larger conversation

[2:19:43] which I appreciate the the list that was

[2:19:46] shared uh that recognizes some

[2:19:48] recommendations. Um

[2:19:52] I want to get lend some appreciation to

[2:19:55] the community members I've been able to

[2:19:57] have um a dialogue with over the last

[2:20:00] several days. I look forward and welcome

[2:20:02] that continued dialogue.

[2:20:10] I do also want to share that the

[2:20:12] conversations I've been able to have

[2:20:14] both with city attorneys and and with

[2:20:17] city managers,

[2:20:19] there are personnel questions that I've

[2:20:22] asked.

[2:20:25] Um,

[2:20:29] that's as far as I'm going to go this

[2:20:31] evening

[2:20:35] there's a lot of work to do and again I

[2:20:38] um,

[2:20:42] you know, thank you for coming here and

[2:20:45] I do recognize that uh, especially for

[2:20:49] those with generational trauma that this

[2:20:52] is something that is um,

[2:20:55] continues to be difficult to come here

[2:20:59] on a weekly basis.

[2:21:05] Um I also I do want to do

[2:21:08] [sighs and gasps]

[2:21:09] um a slight mention on the extreme

[2:21:12] weather events that we had last night or

[2:21:14] yesterday. Um the Ingam County Emergency

[2:21:18] Response Sirens, I know I spent time in

[2:21:21] my basement yesterday. I know our

[2:21:23] schools

[2:21:25] um you know students are in the hallways

[2:21:28] for extended amount of time um uh

[2:21:31] sheltering and just want to give a shout

[2:21:34] out uh to our DPW folks and others that

[2:21:37] have been part of the community response

[2:21:39] as it relates to um you know the down

[2:21:43] trees and other property damage. So, um

[2:21:48] while this while we have um

[2:21:53] the really important matters, uh the

[2:21:56] city business um of tending to the

[2:22:00] community on all facets continues. So, I

[2:22:02] want to recognize the city employees

[2:22:04] that are are weighing through that. So,

[2:22:07] with that, that's all I have this

[2:22:09] evening.

[2:22:11] >> Thank you. That brings us to uh

[2:22:13] » Thank you. That brings us to uh

[2:22:13] communication from the city manager, Mr.

[2:22:15] Bellman.

[2:22:16] >> I have none this evening.

[2:22:19] » I have none this evening.

[2:22:20] >> Okay. Um that brings us to item 3.1.

[2:22:25] » Okay. Um that brings us to item 3.1.

[2:22:25] Is there a motion concerning item 3.1?

[2:22:35] I'll move that

[2:22:37] >> Mike.

[2:22:40] » Mike.

[2:22:40] >> I'll move that we go into a close

[2:22:42] » I'll move that we go into a close

[2:22:42] session to discuss and consult with the

[2:22:44] city's attorneys regarding privilege and

[2:22:46] confidential attorney client legal

[2:22:48] correspondence that is exempt from

[2:22:49] disclosure by state law under MCL 15.243

[2:22:53] 243 PN1 PN lowerase G as allowed under

[2:22:58] SE subsection 8 PN1 lowercase H of the

[2:23:02] Michigan Open Meetings Act.

[2:23:04] >> Uh motion by Meadows, second by Whan. Uh

[2:23:08] » Uh motion by Meadows, second by Whan. Uh

[2:23:08] roll call vote, please.

[2:23:10] >> Council member Whan,

[2:23:11] » Council member Whan,

[2:23:11] >> yes.

[2:23:12] » yes.

[2:23:12] >> Council member Meadows. Council member

[2:23:14] » Council member Meadows. Council member

[2:23:14] Singh,

[2:23:15] >> yes. Mayor Prom Griggsby,

[2:23:17] » yes. Mayor Prom Griggsby,

[2:23:17] >> yes.

[2:23:17] » yes.

[2:23:17] >> Mayor Alman,

[2:23:18] » Mayor Alman,

[2:23:18] >> yes.

[2:23:19] » yes.

[2:23:19] >> We are adjourned to close session.

[3:26:02] Okay, we are back in open session. Um,

[3:26:05] [clears throat]

[3:26:08] next item on our agenda is discussion of

[3:26:10] police and fire updates.

[3:26:13] Uh, we'll start with uh, interim Chief

[3:26:15] Newman from the fire department.

[3:26:18] >> Mayor, Council, thanks again for having

[3:26:20] » Mayor, Council, thanks again for having

[3:26:20] me. John Newman, interim chief fire

[3:26:22] department.

[3:26:25] I know that last month I had made

[3:26:28] mention that we had a uh young

[3:26:30] firefighter paramedic who was separating

[3:26:33] after just a matter of a few years to go

[3:26:34] raise a family. Well, Genevieve was born

[3:26:38] uh on Mother's Day. So, I wanted to make

[3:26:41] sure to at least close that

[3:26:42] conversation. Things are successfully

[3:26:44] moving forward for uh Julia and Chris

[3:26:47] and Genevieve. And I just wanted to

[3:26:49] close that piece out right at the

[3:26:51] beginning of the presentation.

[3:27:02] uh [clears throat] following the uh

[3:27:05] Wells Hall event that we had responded

[3:27:08] to uh with MSU Police Department, uh we

[3:27:12] wound up actually having three different

[3:27:14] hazmat events on campus within the last

[3:27:17] one month period. Uh there was the Wells

[3:27:20] Hall event and then there was this uh

[3:27:22] event here at the MSU regional chilled

[3:27:25] water plant. This was actually uh the

[3:27:28] deputy chief on duty that day activated

[3:27:30] this as a metro hazmat response due to

[3:27:33] the fact of the chemical mixtures within

[3:27:35] the building. The MSU employees had

[3:27:38] reported that there was a liquid

[3:27:39] chlorine spill along with a hydrofuloric

[3:27:42] acid spill and that creates a toxic

[3:27:45] corrosive poisonous gas uh chlorine gas.

[3:27:48] They had evacuated with uh minor

[3:27:51] irritation from the gas and then we had

[3:27:55] the response from the metro team to

[3:27:57] actually enter and make sure that we had

[3:28:00] the the spill evaluated so they knew the

[3:28:03] content the quantity of the content as

[3:28:05] well as making sure that if it needed to

[3:28:07] be damned or uh mitigated in any way

[3:28:10] they could get that accomplished before

[3:28:13] uh any type of contract uh cleanup

[3:28:15] occurred and also limit any type of

[3:28:17] exposure to anybody else. But it was

[3:28:20] just a uh I had stated at media meetings

[3:28:23] prior that sometimes there is no reason

[3:28:26] for the change in calls or the volumes

[3:28:29] of calls and it just played out that way

[3:28:32] that there were three hazmat calls that

[3:28:34] we responded to within a 30-day period

[3:28:37] on campus.

[3:28:39] Uh the last one I'm referencing as as

[3:28:42] the three the last one was today. Uh

[3:28:44] there was a uh complication today with

[3:28:48] the nitrogen

[3:28:50] gas that's utilized at the chemistry

[3:28:52] building to control environments for

[3:28:53] their

[3:28:55] experiments and studies that they do,

[3:28:57] the graduate students do within

[3:28:58] chemistry building. They utilize uh

[3:29:02] reactive metals in their studies and the

[3:29:06] one thing about those reactive metals is

[3:29:07] they can't be exposed to oxygen and so

[3:29:11] put them in a testing uh cage uh

[3:29:16] container and then they completely

[3:29:18] envelop it with nitrogen to make it an

[3:29:22] oxygen deprived atmosphere. Well, there

[3:29:24] was a complication with that today. they

[3:29:26] were actually running out of nitrogen uh

[3:29:29] with multiple tests going on. So, we

[3:29:31] actually were on site for that in order

[3:29:33] to make sure that we didn't have any

[3:29:34] reactive medical metals uh beginning to

[3:29:39] combust until they had everything

[3:29:41] mitigated and had the uh nitrogen back

[3:29:43] in place. So, that one actually turned

[3:29:45] out to be not so much a concern of the

[3:29:46] gas as the reactive metals that were in

[3:29:49] the building.

[3:29:52] >> [cough]

[3:29:53] » [cough]

[3:29:53] >> The next photo on the next slide just

[3:29:55] » The next photo on the next slide just

[3:29:55] shows two of the two of the staff. Uh

[3:29:58] they're in their one-sizefits-all suits.

[3:30:01] I thought that the uh picture actually

[3:30:04] did justice. The individual on the left

[3:30:06] has a smaller stature than the one on

[3:30:07] the right. uh but yet in the same size

[3:30:09] suit and then they are going to be

[3:30:12] entering that space through that uh door

[3:30:14] there in order to monitor the airspace

[3:30:16] within that room.

[3:30:21] Outside of the report that I had

[3:30:23] presented separately to you, the written

[3:30:25] report that I left for you to just have

[3:30:27] the information without reading all that

[3:30:28] information to you. Uh this page here, I

[3:30:31] added data as you had requested in

[3:30:35] comparison with previous years.

[3:30:38] Now I

[3:30:40] built this basically on a guess. Not

[3:30:42] certain exactly the information that you

[3:30:44] were looking for. But what I want to

[3:30:46] know from you, I need feedback uh from

[3:30:49] you. Is this the data that you are

[3:30:51] looking to obtain and review? Is there

[3:30:54] additional data that you want? Is there

[3:30:56] a different format that you want to

[3:30:58] receive it? We can we can adjust what we

[3:31:01] what we need to do with this.

[3:31:05] Uh you can see within the within the

[3:31:08] report that's in here, I did include in

[3:31:11] there uh mutual aid that was provided

[3:31:13] outside of the city as well as mutual

[3:31:16] aid received within the city. And you'll

[3:31:19] see that those numbers are quite a bit

[3:31:20] different uh over the last three years.

[3:31:28] » Could you could you point to those in

[3:31:29] the bullets the

[3:31:30] >> in the bullet points?

[3:31:31] » in the bullet points?

[3:31:31] >> Yeah. So [clears throat] the

[3:31:32] » Yeah. So [clears throat] the

[3:31:32] >> so if you're down the the uh top half of

[3:31:36] » so if you're down the the uh top half of

[3:31:36] each one is specific to EMS calls and if

[3:31:39] you go to the four bullet points inset

[3:31:42] bullet points and you go towards the

[3:31:44] bottom for 2026 there were 17 EMS calls

[3:31:48] that we responded to outside of the city

[3:31:51] of East Lancing.

[3:31:52] >> Got it.

[3:31:53] » Got it.

[3:31:53] >> And there were two that we received

[3:31:55] » And there were two that we received

[3:31:55] mutual aid within the city for that we

[3:31:56] could not cover.

[3:31:58] >> So there's a big imbalance there. But

[3:31:59] » So there's a big imbalance there. But

[3:31:59] there's a that was just for 2026. If you

[3:32:03] go to 2024,

[3:32:06] >> we had 18 that we responded to and 13

[3:32:09] » we had 18 that we responded to and 13

[3:32:09] that we received assistance for. Much

[3:32:11] closer much closer uh paradigm in there.

[3:32:15] Now 25 is even uh more of a mark

[3:32:19] difference than 26.

[3:32:24] So, if there's a long-term imbalance

[3:32:26] there,

[3:32:28] >> well, we'll know that as we continue to

[3:32:29] » well, we'll know that as we continue to

[3:32:29] move forward collecting that data for

[3:32:31] you.

[3:32:31] >> Yep.

[3:32:32] » Yep.

[3:32:32] >> So, I think I was the one who had asked

[3:32:34] » So, I think I was the one who had asked

[3:32:34] for this year-over-year data.

[3:32:36] >> I would

[3:32:38] » I would

[3:32:38] I would wager that we're going to see a

[3:32:41] shift on that the opposite direction

[3:32:43] come August, September, and October.

[3:32:45] >> Got it. Yep. Okay.

[3:32:48] » Got it. Yep. Okay.

[3:32:48] >> Just with call volume. So these are

[3:32:51] » Just with call volume. So these are

[3:32:51] monthly stats.

[3:32:52] >> Yes.

[3:32:53] » Yes.

[3:32:53] >> Okay.

[3:32:53] » Okay.

[3:32:53] >> Yes. These are specific to April of each

[3:32:56] » Yes. These are specific to April of each

[3:32:56] each year.

[3:32:57] >> So it'll be useful to track that over

[3:32:58] » So it'll be useful to track that over

[3:32:58] the months because it could reverse

[3:33:00] >> and you'll be able to see that see that

[3:33:02] » and you'll be able to see that see that

[3:33:02] as we move forward. And we can do that.

[3:33:04] We we can show comparison with uh six

[3:33:07] month difference as we move forward and

[3:33:10] still equate that with varying years.

[3:33:14] >> Yep. I think this is great. This is kind

[3:33:16] » Yep. I think this is great. This is kind

[3:33:16] of what I was envisioning when I asked.

[3:33:18] Kind of

[3:33:18] >> what you were looking for. All right.

[3:33:19] » what you were looking for. All right.

[3:33:19] Thanks. Uh it's been interesting looking

[3:33:22] at the data. One of the items that I had

[3:33:26] discussed with Mr. Bellman today during

[3:33:29] our face toface was uh we had a response

[3:33:33] uh that we provided outside of the city

[3:33:36] with uh automatic aid to BA Township for

[3:33:39] the fire at village uh village at

[3:33:42] Chandler Crossing.

[3:33:44] And one of the things that was

[3:33:45] identified

[3:33:47] with that event alone was

[3:33:51] the frequency that we are working with

[3:33:54] those fire events with Meridian

[3:33:57] Township, Bath Township and making sure

[3:34:00] that we have policies, tasks,

[3:34:05] uh,

[3:34:06] directives that are given over radio

[3:34:08] communication that everything is equal

[3:34:11] and mirrors each other. So any changes

[3:34:13] or differences that there might be with

[3:34:15] a different department, we need to make

[3:34:16] sure that our training reflects that

[3:34:19] information and we bring things in in

[3:34:22] line so that everybody is working off

[3:34:24] the same page.

[3:34:26] Now that that's been identified, we will

[3:34:28] be working towards holding joint

[3:34:30] training sessions together with the

[3:34:33] departments, not just within our own

[3:34:36] department, but with outside departments

[3:34:37] and bring that together and try to marry

[3:34:39] those those tasks and those services

[3:34:41] together.

[3:34:43] But outside of that,

[3:34:45] uh that's a brief bullet point of what

[3:34:48] we've been doing at the fire department

[3:34:49] for the last month. Uh we do have

[3:34:53] testing for one new higher position

[3:34:57] uh next

[3:34:59] week. Yes, next week. So we will be

[3:35:02] doing the written and the physical

[3:35:03] agility and then we will be holding uh

[3:35:06] the oral interviews after that to fill

[3:35:08] that one position. So we are actively

[3:35:10] working forward to get that position

[3:35:12] filled.

[3:35:13] >> Questions for Mr. Newman, Mr. Willen.

[3:35:16] » Questions for Mr. Newman, Mr. Willen.

[3:35:16] >> Um maybe it's a more of a comment. I

[3:35:19] » Um maybe it's a more of a comment. I

[3:35:19] actually had um someone talked to me

[3:35:22] about the fire up in Bath and it was

[3:35:24] very imp they they were very impressed

[3:35:26] with the multi-

[3:35:28] unit where different counties, different

[3:35:30] cities, the fact that everyone worked

[3:35:32] really well together that helps us if we

[3:35:35] have an issue also. Mhm.

[3:35:36] >> So I think the coordination with within

[3:35:40] » So I think the coordination with within

[3:35:40] the departments is impressive and I'm

[3:35:42] glad for that. Thank you.

[3:35:44] >> I do have a comment if I can. I just

[3:35:47] » I do have a comment if I can. I just

[3:35:47] want to I really want to compliment uh

[3:35:50] you on on bringing these departments

[3:35:53] together in a training for training. I

[3:35:56] mean, that was one of the issues I want

[3:35:58] to say. I don't remember how many years

[3:35:59] ago it was when we talked about

[3:36:02] combining Meridian Township and East

[3:36:04] Lancing's uh fire departments. Uh there

[3:36:08] was a huge disparity in training at that

[3:36:10] point in time. And obviously, our fire

[3:36:13] department responds [clears throat] to

[3:36:15] things like a hazmat uh issue that other

[3:36:19] departments locally probably don't have

[3:36:21] to train for. So, uh, having that joint

[3:36:24] training, I think, is extremely

[3:36:26] important and also means that we'll

[3:36:29] have, uh, equally trained individuals

[3:36:31] responding because we're going to be

[3:36:33] back up or

[3:36:34] >> right,

[3:36:34] » right,

[3:36:34] >> first in on, you know, any number of

[3:36:37] » first in on, you know, any number of

[3:36:37] things over the years. So, my

[3:36:38] compliments to you and getting that

[3:36:40] done. That was great,

[3:36:42] >> Mr. Griggsby.

[3:36:44] » Mr. Griggsby.

[3:36:44] >> Yeah, he just stole all my thunder. Uh,

[3:36:47] » Yeah, he just stole all my thunder. Uh,

[3:36:47] literally words out of my mouth. Um, I

[3:36:50] thank you for for doing this. I I just

[3:36:52] want to be appreciative of the work that

[3:36:55] it takes for you to kind of get prepared

[3:36:56] for this, present to us, get this

[3:36:59] information, get do the work that's not,

[3:37:01] you know, that's not necessarily in

[3:37:02] front of people. And I just want to ask

[3:37:04] you in these presentations, do you feel

[3:37:08] like the work you put into it, the

[3:37:09] energy and the time that uh the benefit

[3:37:12] of doing this going forward is something

[3:37:15] that's advantageous of your time and um

[3:37:18] in and in in the frequency that we were

[3:37:20] doing it in. Does that make sense?

[3:37:24] » I do. I mean, it's a it it does take

[3:37:27] some time, but the part of that is it

[3:37:29] has been done in the past. So building

[3:37:32] the foundation to move forward to be

[3:37:33] able to continue to glean the

[3:37:34] information over and over and over. Once

[3:37:36] the system's built, it should flow and

[3:37:38] we'll be able to gather that information

[3:37:42] as we need it, not just on a on a report

[3:37:45] basis to you once a once a month.

[3:37:47] >> Yeah, that's that's my concern. I just

[3:37:49] » Yeah, that's that's my concern. I just

[3:37:49] want to really make sure I know I

[3:37:50] benefit tremendously with just learning

[3:37:52] so much of some of the inner workings

[3:37:54] and some of the data that's been

[3:37:56] presented. But I just want to make sure

[3:37:58] on your side that you also feel that

[3:38:01] this is a good investment for something

[3:38:02] that you're creating in the system.

[3:38:04] >> I'm finding information that I'm

[3:38:06] » I'm finding information that I'm

[3:38:06] utilizing on my in my own collection of

[3:38:10] data. So there's there's pieces that I'm

[3:38:12] looking at myself that I'm starting to

[3:38:15] collect that not necessarily are going

[3:38:17] to mean anything currently, but they may

[3:38:19] over time. But being able to see that

[3:38:20] and and identify that, well, that's

[3:38:22] something I didn't know.

[3:38:24] >> Yeah. Maybe it'll give us some benefit

[3:38:26] » Yeah. Maybe it'll give us some benefit

[3:38:26] down the road.

[3:38:27] >> Absolutely. Thank you,

[3:38:29] » Absolutely. Thank you,

[3:38:29] >> Council Member Singh.

[3:38:31] » Council Member Singh.

[3:38:31] >> Yeah. So, it's also, I think, helpful

[3:38:33] » Yeah. So, it's also, I think, helpful

[3:38:33] for the public to see trends. Um, it's

[3:38:35] helpful for all of us to see trends over

[3:38:37] time. And I'm looking at uh pretty steep

[3:38:41] uptick in overall EMS calls in April 26

[3:38:44] relative to April 25 and potentially al

[3:38:47] also April 24. It'll be interesting to

[3:38:49] see if that holds up over over the

[3:38:51] months,

[3:38:51] >> right? and see what see what changes as

[3:38:53] » right? and see what see what changes as

[3:38:53] we move forward.

[3:38:54] >> Yeah. And I think that's real important

[3:38:56] » Yeah. And I think that's real important

[3:38:56] for the community to be able to see also

[3:38:58] that the the burden on the fire

[3:39:00] department keeps growing. So,

[3:39:01] >> agreed. Agreed.

[3:39:03] » agreed. Agreed.

[3:39:03] >> So, thank you for your presentation.

[3:39:05] » So, thank you for your presentation.

[3:39:05] >> Thank you for your time.

[3:39:05] » Thank you for your time.

[3:39:06] >> All right. Thanks, Chief. Good night.

[3:39:11] Okay.

[3:39:12] Chief Brown and Assistant Chief Craft

[3:39:16] and Captain O'Hario, welcome.

[3:39:29] Good evening, Mayor Alman, Mayor Potm

[3:39:31] Gri Griggsby, and council members. Thank

[3:39:34] you for the opportunity to provide an

[3:39:36] update on several important initiatives

[3:39:38] within the East Lancing Police

[3:39:39] Department. Tonight, I will briefly

[3:39:41] discuss hiring and promotions, training

[3:39:43] initiatives, technology and transparency

[3:39:46] efforts, department activity, and

[3:39:48] community engagement. I am pleased to

[3:39:50] announce the hiring of our newest police

[3:39:52] officers, Officer Washington and Officer

[3:39:54] Mosby, as well as the promotion of

[3:39:56] Sergeant Woodruff. We also had one

[3:39:58] individual start last week, Officer

[3:40:00] Kendall Souls. I will be introducing

[3:40:03] these new officers to you at the June

[3:40:05] discussion only meeting. I was planning

[3:40:07] to introduce them tonight, but Officer

[3:40:09] Mosby had a military um obligation.

[3:40:12] Currently, the department has 55

[3:40:15] um budgeted officers and we're currently

[3:40:18] staffed at 47. We have one officer in

[3:40:20] the Washington Police Academy and five

[3:40:22] other conditional offers extended to

[3:40:25] potential candidates.

[3:40:27] Training continues to be a major

[3:40:29] priority from our department. Last week,

[3:40:31] our personnel participated in a two-day

[3:40:33] training led by Joe Samaro. He is a

[3:40:36] nationally recognized speaker. We

[3:40:38] actually had two two-day sessions of

[3:40:40] training that focused on deescalation,

[3:40:42] trauma recognition, and mental

[3:40:44] resilience.

[3:40:48] As you're already aware, our command

[3:40:50] staff completed training with Dr. Ike

[3:40:52] McKinnon focused on ethical policing,

[3:40:54] building trust, and professionalism in

[3:40:56] leadership. And that same training is

[3:40:58] now scheduled for all nonsupervisory

[3:41:01] police personnel in July of 2026.

[3:41:04] Lastly, all of our personnel completed

[3:41:06] implicit bias training with Darnell

[3:41:08] Blackbird and we're already looking into

[3:41:11] 2027 and looking to bring nationally

[3:41:14] recognized speakers like we'd done in

[3:41:16] 2026.

[3:41:17] The department continues to invest in

[3:41:19] technology that improves efficiency,

[3:41:21] accountability, transparency, and

[3:41:23] officer safety. We're currently working

[3:41:25] with Axon on the development and

[3:41:27] implementation of Axon standards. As

[3:41:30] you've heard before, this platform will

[3:41:31] help us streamline use of force

[3:41:33] reporting and complaint tracking. We

[3:41:36] still have a go live date for summer of

[3:41:38] 2026. Our team continues to meet with

[3:41:40] Axon representatives on a weekly basis

[3:41:43] to make sure that the system is

[3:41:44] customized for our department needs and

[3:41:46] best practices.

[3:41:48] The next slide will provide a snapshot

[3:41:50] of department activity comparing March

[3:41:52] of 2026 to April of 2026 as well as a

[3:41:56] yearover-year comparison from April of

[3:41:58] 25 to April of 26. So compared to March

[3:42:02] of 26, in April we had an increased

[3:42:09] by 32 and OWI arrest increased from 5 to

[3:42:13] 9. And then comparing those same numbers

[3:42:16] to April of 2025,

[3:42:18] we had calls increase by 132, traffic

[3:42:22] stops by 74, and a slight decrease in

[3:42:24] OWI arrests. In April, we had six

[3:42:28] warnings for loud exhaust on vehicles,

[3:42:31] and one citation was issued for loud

[3:42:33] exhaust.

[3:42:35] Community engagement continues to be one

[3:42:37] of our priorities and over the past

[3:42:38] several months, our officers and staff

[3:42:40] have have participated in numerous

[3:42:42] community events and outreach

[3:42:44] initiatives. Some of those recent

[3:42:46] examples include our participation in

[3:42:49] the Kuanas egg hunt at Patre Park and

[3:42:52] our attendance at the Tech Ford men of

[3:42:54] color recruiting event which occurred um

[3:42:57] or highlighted careers in trades,

[3:42:59] technology, and public service.

[3:43:01] We also had a successful completion of

[3:43:03] our 2026 Citizen Police Academy where we

[3:43:06] had 19 individuals um graduate.

[3:43:10] Even during periods of staffing shortage

[3:43:13] shortages and increased demands for

[3:43:15] service, our team continues to

[3:43:17] prioritize public safety and community

[3:43:19] partnership. Our community expects when

[3:43:21] they call 911 that they'll receive

[3:43:23] quality service in a timely manner. One

[3:43:26] example of this is um over the last

[3:43:28] month we've had two separate swatting

[3:43:30] calls at the East Lancing High School.

[3:43:32] These incidents um very quickly absorb

[3:43:34] all of our resources and often require

[3:43:37] assistance from other agencies. And so

[3:43:39] even with staffing shortages um we

[3:43:42] responded to those calls and um had a

[3:43:46] successful end to those. So again, thank

[3:43:48] you for the opportunity to provide this

[3:43:50] update and I'd be happy to answer any

[3:43:51] questions that you may have. questions

[3:43:54] for the chief.

[3:43:55] >> Mr. Griggsby.

[3:43:56] » Mr. Griggsby.

[3:43:56] >> Yes, thank you. Uh thank you for the

[3:43:58] » Yes, thank you. Uh thank you for the

[3:43:58] report and thank you for all coming in

[3:44:01] tonight. Um um as you know uh we have uh

[3:44:06] a big community um incident in our uh

[3:44:10] that we are dealing with that you're

[3:44:13] dealing with we're all dealing with and

[3:44:15] I had a few questions um and um you know

[3:44:19] these are questions that I think

[3:44:22] hopefully can start giving um at least

[3:44:25] me um some understanding about what I

[3:44:28] don't know and how it works from your

[3:44:30] perspective.

[3:44:32] um in a baseline way. And I apologize if

[3:44:36] my question

[3:44:38] questions are um I don't know not the

[3:44:42] best questions. So work with me here uh

[3:44:44] in regards to that. But

[3:44:47] um my first question is

[3:44:50] can you walk me through

[3:44:52] like the deadly force policy like in

[3:44:55] plain language as best you can you know

[3:44:57] specifically to what must officers

[3:44:59] reasonably believe

[3:45:02] before deadly force is authorized.

[3:45:05] >> Um I just don't know how that works.

[3:45:07] » Um I just don't know how that works.

[3:45:08] >> Sure. Again, we can't get into specific

[3:45:10] » Sure. Again, we can't get into specific

[3:45:10] details of the case, but broadly, um,

[3:45:12] first of all, I want to draw attention

[3:45:14] that all of our policies and procedures

[3:45:16] are accessible to the public. They are

[3:45:18] on our website. They're part of our

[3:45:20] transparency page. Um, we have quite a

[3:45:23] few policies and they're all accessible.

[3:45:25] Um, in terms of our deadly force policy,

[3:45:30] I first want to reiterate that all of

[3:45:32] our response to resistance is governed

[3:45:34] by case law, and that's Graham versus

[3:45:36] Connor. Um so East Lancing Police

[3:45:39] Department's uh officers are trained to

[3:45:42] um assess three key items

[3:45:46] um before making a decision to use

[3:45:47] deadly force. And those three prongs are

[3:45:51] the severity of the crime, whether

[3:45:53] there's an immediate threat to the

[3:45:54] public or to officers, and whether

[3:45:57] there's ex um active resistance or

[3:45:59] flight. And so that is what guides that

[3:46:02] deadly force language.

[3:46:06] >> Okay. Um

[3:46:09] » Okay. Um

[3:46:09] um I have some more questions. I don't

[3:46:11] know if you guys have follow-ups. Can I

[3:46:12] go ahead and keep Okay. Um so

[3:46:18] can you help me understand? I'm trying

[3:46:21] to distinguish between a person that is

[3:46:24] armed and a person that presents

[3:46:27] immediate threat. I don't know if

[3:46:28] there's a proximity thing. I don't know

[3:46:30] if there's, you know, a level of the

[3:46:33] scenario or the or weapon or how can you

[3:46:37] can you help me understand

[3:46:39] um

[3:46:41] at least how officers are trained or

[3:46:42] what the policy may be in regards to

[3:46:46] and I know some of this is very

[3:46:48] situational and there's a little bit of

[3:46:50] discretion involved with some of it I

[3:46:52] would assume I guess with how that

[3:46:54] works.

[3:46:56] >> I can answer part of that question. Um

[3:46:59] » I can answer part of that question. Um

[3:46:59] the our our officers are trained to

[3:47:01] assess each situation uh as it evolves.

[3:47:04] Um and they take in that Graham v.

[3:47:06] Connor uh case law into consideration

[3:47:08] which they have had training on. Um our

[3:47:11] officers all exceed the MCO's minimum

[3:47:13] standard of training uh which is also

[3:47:15] publicly available on the MCO's website

[3:47:17] as well. Um but again just to reiterate

[3:47:19] that uh to your question as you pose it,

[3:47:22] they do take in the severity of the

[3:47:24] crimes that they are investigating or

[3:47:26] responding to. um the knowledge that

[3:47:28] they actually have when they interact

[3:47:30] with anybody. Uh it's not hindsight

[3:47:32] 2020. They are not judged on that. They

[3:47:35] have to only what they know at the

[3:47:37] actual time. Uh the immediiacy of the

[3:47:39] threat uh not only to officers but to

[3:47:41] the public and other people out in the

[3:47:44] public and then just the um again act of

[3:47:47] resistance or flight um of any person

[3:47:50] that they deal with. So that's really

[3:47:52] how they address that situation and as

[3:47:54] you said it is very situational. they

[3:47:56] have to take in the totality of the

[3:47:57] circumstances um with the information

[3:48:00] that they know and at times in law

[3:48:01] enforcement you have to make

[3:48:02] split-second decisions with very limited

[3:48:05] information um and so that's how the

[3:48:07] court views it again weighing very

[3:48:09] heavily on the factors outlined within

[3:48:11] that Supreme Court case of Grahamby

[3:48:13] Connor

[3:48:14] >> uh thank you and I know we have

[3:48:16] » uh thank you and I know we have

[3:48:16] independent investigation that's going

[3:48:18] to look at all this and and and whatnot

[3:48:21] but one of the most confusing things

[3:48:23] from the video is the the

[3:48:27] and I'll just say plain like there's

[3:48:29] there's officers who are looking to do

[3:48:31] non-lethal and then there's the lethal

[3:48:34] aspect of that. And I I'm not quite

[3:48:37] sure, you know, how that works in a live

[3:48:39] situation as a person that sees this

[3:48:41] video and sees two different types of

[3:48:44] levels of response. And I I'm just

[3:48:47] curious if if with respect to the

[3:48:50] investigation if that could be addressed

[3:48:53] or not.

[3:48:54] Unfortunately, it can't be addressed. We

[3:48:56] haven't interviewed officers and so we

[3:48:58] don't know um the reasons for what they

[3:49:01] did at the time of the incident. So

[3:49:02] again, we can't speak to the specific

[3:49:05] case. Um those are questions that would

[3:49:08] have to be answered by the Michigan

[3:49:09] State Police.

[3:49:13] » Okay.

[3:49:15] Um

[3:49:16] and this may be similar. So, can you do

[3:49:19] you have a general timeline of when EMS

[3:49:22] was requested to the scene? Um, and the

[3:49:25] timeline when the medical aid was

[3:49:28] actually rendered because I from the

[3:49:30] video it looked like there there was a a

[3:49:33] a timeline thing there, but then in the

[3:49:36] other footage it just seems like it

[3:49:38] didn't match up. So, I'm just curious if

[3:49:40] you have that information just yet with

[3:49:43] kind of understanding when we had were

[3:49:46] able to render aid to the individual

[3:49:48] involved.

[3:49:49] >> So, again, just speaking broadly, not to

[3:49:51] » So, again, just speaking broadly, not to

[3:49:51] the specific case, the East Lancing

[3:49:53] Police Department for um policy on

[3:49:56] rendering aid says that we need to make

[3:49:59] sure that the scene is stable before

[3:50:01] medics can render aid to any individual.

[3:50:05] And so um again, broadly speaking, that

[3:50:08] is what our policy says.

[3:50:15] » Okay,

[3:50:19] that's that's all I have for now.

[3:50:23] >> Further questions? Council member Singh.

[3:50:30] Um, [clears throat]

[3:50:31] I just want to build some understanding

[3:50:34] on the during the the released footage

[3:50:39] last week that a lot of the public has

[3:50:42] taken in. Um, I think you have language

[3:50:45] that talks about the um internal

[3:50:48] investigation or internal review. Um,

[3:50:53] what and I I know I privately asked this

[3:50:55] question as well. want to reflect that,

[3:50:57] but I think it's important to understand

[3:50:58] what at what point with the independent

[3:51:01] investigation of the Michigan State

[3:51:03] Police,

[3:51:04] um the timeline of that internal review.

[3:51:08] >> Yeah, that's a good question. Um

[3:51:09] » Yeah, that's a good question. Um

[3:51:09] standard protocol for East Lancing

[3:51:11] Police Department is that an internal

[3:51:13] investigation into any critical incident

[3:51:16] will occur sometime after the Michigan

[3:51:18] State Police completes their

[3:51:19] investigation.

[3:51:22] And then is there when you are

[3:51:25] conducting an internal review of

[3:51:27] something, what how long does that

[3:51:28] typically take the ELPD?

[3:51:32] >> So I think our last critical incident

[3:51:34] » So I think our last critical incident

[3:51:34] that was reviewed um comparable in size

[3:51:37] would be the Meyer shooting and I wasn't

[3:51:40] around during that time. So I'm looking

[3:51:41] to Adrian if he remembers. I

[3:51:44] >> it took at a minimum of several months.

[3:51:46] » it took at a minimum of several months.

[3:51:46] So we only had one investigator looking

[3:51:48] into that at that in that critical

[3:51:50] incident and that didn't uh that

[3:51:52] incident was not as complex as this one

[3:51:54] is.

[3:51:56] >> And then you internal investigator. Can

[3:51:58] » And then you internal investigator. Can

[3:51:58] you explain to me how that works within

[3:52:00] the police department

[3:52:02] >> in regards to just

[3:52:03] » in regards to just

[3:52:03] >> do you have a separate position that's

[3:52:05] » do you have a separate position that's

[3:52:05] an internal investigator or is it

[3:52:07] someone amongst administrative

[3:52:10] officers? I don't

[3:52:12] >> no. So yes, in this instance, it would

[3:52:14] » no. So yes, in this instance, it would

[3:52:14] probably be an administration uh team

[3:52:16] member that is doing that level of

[3:52:18] internal investigation. Correct. For a

[3:52:20] smaller uh internal investigation,

[3:52:22] sometimes they're handled at the shift

[3:52:23] level. So a sergeant may do a very minor

[3:52:25] internal investigation. Um if it rises

[3:52:27] above that, a lieutenant might do it

[3:52:29] like a shift lieutenant. U but in this

[3:52:31] instance, due to the magnitude of the uh

[3:52:33] incident, um probably going to be one of

[3:52:35] the administrators.

[3:52:37] And then you mentioned in the response

[3:52:39] to um our mayor prom's question

[3:52:43] um in terms of our hieres um they all

[3:52:48] exceed MOOL's

[3:52:51] um what does that mean is that passing

[3:52:52] the exam exceed standards what does that

[3:52:55] mean

[3:52:56] >> yeah so MLOS has a minimum standard um

[3:52:58] » yeah so MLOS has a minimum standard um

[3:52:58] and all of our ELPD officers are trained

[3:53:00] at the MCO's minimum standard for

[3:53:02] lensure and firearms and officers

[3:53:04] response to resistance is guided at case

[3:53:07] law. So, MOS has minimum standards that

[3:53:09] are on their website um particularly for

[3:53:11] the licensing uh the amount of academy

[3:53:13] that they have to go through um and so

[3:53:15] on and so forth. Um there are new

[3:53:17] standards for continuing uh education

[3:53:20] that MCOLO's just put in place back in

[3:53:22] 2024 as a pilot program. Um and again,

[3:53:25] all of that is publicly available and we

[3:53:27] could share it with you if you want. We

[3:53:28] can get copies for you if that's what

[3:53:30] you would like. Um but that information

[3:53:32] is there. um the East Lancing Police

[3:53:34] Department, the MCO standards is a

[3:53:36] minimum. Uh all of our officers exceed

[3:53:38] that minimum.

[3:53:40] >> And then the the new curriculum that you

[3:53:43] » And then the the new curriculum that you

[3:53:43] are referencing by Moos, um what

[3:53:47] percentage of our current 47 officers

[3:53:50] have been a part of that recent update

[3:53:54] in curriculum or standards?

[3:53:56] >> All of them have to be per Mult. So they

[3:53:59] » All of them have to be per Mult. So they

[3:53:59] all they've all been hired since 2024 or

[3:54:02] they

[3:54:02] >> they all have to go through the

[3:54:03] » they all have to go through the

[3:54:03] standards. These standards are set for a

[3:54:05] year. So there's like a bank for 2024.

[3:54:07] They have to meet all the standards and

[3:54:09] then there's a bank of education that

[3:54:11] they have to meet in 2025 and so on and

[3:54:13] so forth.

[3:54:13] >> Okay. So

[3:54:14] » Okay. So

[3:54:14] >> in regards to 2026, you have the whole

[3:54:17] » in regards to 2026, you have the whole

[3:54:17] year to work on it.

[3:54:18] >> So officers are going through that right

[3:54:20] » So officers are going through that right

[3:54:20] now.

[3:54:21] >> Okay. And then what beyond MCOs's what

[3:54:25] » Okay. And then what beyond MCOs's what

[3:54:25] additional training which I I recognize

[3:54:28] as you've referenced it's on your

[3:54:30] website um additional policy or training

[3:54:34] policies that officers go through

[3:54:38] >> like deescalation we purposed a bunch of

[3:54:40] » like deescalation we purposed a bunch of

[3:54:40] dollars for other trainings in the last

[3:54:43] eight months or six seven months.

[3:54:46] >> Are you asking beyond the ones that I

[3:54:47] » Are you asking beyond the ones that I

[3:54:47] mentioned in the presentation?

[3:54:49] >> Yes. So again to your um question

[3:54:52] » Yes. So again to your um question

[3:54:52] regarding policies, first of all, we

[3:54:54] have a software system where all of our

[3:54:56] policies are at and all of the officers

[3:54:58] are required to sign off on those

[3:55:00] electronically that they understand

[3:55:02] them. So that's part of training and

[3:55:04] then we do an annual training each year

[3:55:06] in either January, February or March. Um

[3:55:09] each of the officers or sworn personnel

[3:55:12] have to go through three full days of

[3:55:14] training. That includes everything from

[3:55:17] first aid, CPR. Um we also do taser

[3:55:21] training. Um we do deescalation

[3:55:25] um health and wellness resilience. The

[3:55:28] topics for those change um from year to

[3:55:30] year, but again we do a wide variety of

[3:55:33] training during that annual training.

[3:55:35] And then officers additionally go to

[3:55:38] training for which they um it might

[3:55:41] apply to a specific position that

[3:55:43] they're in. So for example, our K9

[3:55:44] officers attend K9 training both on a

[3:55:47] monthly basis and then again annually.

[3:55:50] Um we have bicycle officers and they go

[3:55:52] to specific training. So again, all of

[3:55:54] our officers get very specific training

[3:55:57] each year and then if they're

[3:55:58] specialized, they get training beyond

[3:56:00] that. And the crisis intervention uh

[3:56:03] training is that required by MCOs or is

[3:56:05] that an East Lancing PD requirement?

[3:56:08] >> So critical incident training from my

[3:56:10] » So critical incident training from my

[3:56:10] understanding is not required by MCOs

[3:56:12] but that is a priority for our

[3:56:13] department and the last time I checked

[3:56:16] um which was a couple weeks ago we have

[3:56:18] 37 of our officers that are trained in

[3:56:20] CIT. So 37 of the 47 that are

[3:56:25] um and do you are do you have an

[3:56:27] awareness of police departments in Mid

[3:56:29] Michigan that require that? Do we

[3:56:32] require it or it's a priority for the

[3:56:34] department?

[3:56:34] >> It is a priority. We don't have a

[3:56:36] » It is a priority. We don't have a

[3:56:36] requirement.

[3:56:36] >> It's not required. Okay.

[3:56:38] » It's not required. Okay.

[3:56:38] >> We're just locally trying to get

[3:56:39] » We're just locally trying to get

[3:56:40] officers through. From my understanding,

[3:56:41] they only offer that twice per year. And

[3:56:44] so again, because of our staffing

[3:56:46] levels, we're only able to send a couple

[3:56:48] officers to that training at a time. And

[3:56:50] where who hosts the training?

[3:56:53] >> Ingham County.

[3:56:54] » Ingham County.

[3:56:54] >> Ingham County. And I know a number of

[3:56:58] » Ingham County. And I know a number of

[3:56:58] our officers come out of Lancing

[3:56:59] Community College is my understanding.

[3:57:02] And have we had meetings with the

[3:57:05] faculty that conduct some of the

[3:57:07] trainings to um you know talk

[3:57:10] specifically about what we're seeing in

[3:57:12] terms of community needs and what is

[3:57:14] instructed in the classroom.

[3:57:16] >> Yeah. And I'm going to let Adrian speak

[3:57:17] » Yeah. And I'm going to let Adrian speak

[3:57:17] to this because he's very actively

[3:57:19] involved in Lancing Community College

[3:57:21] Police Academy.

[3:57:22] >> I actually teach there. So yes, at the

[3:57:24] » I actually teach there. So yes, at the

[3:57:24] end of every um uh academy there is a

[3:57:27] debrief where chiefs um and high level

[3:57:31] executives do are able to come in and

[3:57:33] kind of critique and provide suggestions

[3:57:35] to the academy. Um the academy standard

[3:57:38] I believe I think I wrote it down on the

[3:57:39] notes for Moos is 590 hours. Uh the LCC

[3:57:45] as an example does well over 700 hours

[3:57:48] of actual educational purposes uh for

[3:57:50] any recruit coming out of LCC. I can't

[3:57:52] speak to any other of themies, but all

[3:57:54] of themies are governed by uh the

[3:57:57] Michigan Commission on Law Enforcement

[3:57:59] Standards MOOLS. Um and so they are all

[3:58:01] overseen by MOOLS. Um and the curriculum

[3:58:04] is actually designed by MOS as well. Um

[3:58:07] they do off curriculum review as well

[3:58:10] but I don't know the specifics on that

[3:58:11] because I haven't interacted with MCOs's

[3:58:13] that directly uh very often. So if that

[3:58:17] answers your question.

[3:58:19] >> Yeah. I mean part of it is I used to do

[3:58:21] » Yeah. I mean part of it is I used to do

[3:58:22] workforce development um uh

[3:58:26] and other professional areas and you

[3:58:29] know a lot of times we would work

[3:58:32] specifically

[3:58:34] um with

[3:58:36] higher ed entities providing the

[3:58:38] training or the degree programs to

[3:58:41] specifically outline needs that we have

[3:58:44] in our or an employer would need to help

[3:58:48] matchmake and develop that curriculum. I

[3:58:51] understand this is a bit different um in

[3:58:53] terms of the standards that are outlined

[3:58:55] by the state very different than an

[3:58:57] engineering degree. So I'm just you know

[3:58:59] balancing what I know professionally to

[3:59:02] you know what

[3:59:03] >> it's a good question and there's a lot

[3:59:05] » it's a good question and there's a lot

[3:59:05] of information on the MCO's web page. If

[3:59:07] you had any questions or needed some

[3:59:09] assistance navigating it I'd be more

[3:59:10] than happy to do that. part of that

[3:59:12] curriculum or the curriculum that MCOLO

[3:59:14] sets forward um formies to be taught is

[3:59:18] on that web page.

[3:59:19] >> Yeah.

[3:59:20] » Yeah.

[3:59:20] >> Thank you for referencing that. I know

[3:59:22] » Thank you for referencing that. I know

[3:59:22] verbally I learn verbally so I

[3:59:24] appreciate this description as I'm sure

[3:59:26] the public does as well.

[3:59:28] >> Um

[3:59:30] » Um

[3:59:30] let's see. I want to go back to um

[3:59:36] um for in this, you know, what we've

[3:59:40] just experienced um as well as

[3:59:43] uh I know you mentioned the Meyer event

[3:59:45] a few years ago. T can you describe to

[3:59:48] me a little bit in terms of how videos

[3:59:51] are compiled? um whether that's from

[3:59:54] fleet or body cam footage or even

[3:59:58] available footage at storefronts.

[4:00:03] » Okay.

[4:00:04] >> The video compiles like in regards to

[4:00:06] » The video compiles like in regards to

[4:00:06] axon body warn camera videos

[4:00:10] >> after an incident that we you know you

[4:00:13] » after an incident that we you know you

[4:00:13] know how does that come together for

[4:00:14] East Lancing Police Department? How do

[4:00:17] you compile a video after a significant

[4:00:19] event?

[4:00:20] >> Yeah, I can walk you through that. So we

[4:00:22] » Yeah, I can walk you through that. So we

[4:00:22] spent hours and hours watching camera

[4:00:25] footage from both the bodywn cameras and

[4:00:28] from the fleet footage and again wanted

[4:00:30] to provide the public with you know as

[4:00:33] much detail as we could in a short

[4:00:35] amount of time. So from our experience

[4:00:37] um again partnering with the Lancing

[4:00:39] Police Department to create this video

[4:00:41] we learned that most agencies narrow the

[4:00:44] video down to about between 10 and 15

[4:00:47] minutes. As you know, our final product

[4:00:50] was just over 22 minutes. And so, again,

[4:00:53] we had to create, you know, a timeline

[4:00:56] using that footage that we have

[4:00:57] available to us. And some of that

[4:00:59] footage was hours and hours in length.

[4:01:03] Um, so again, we tried to provide as,

[4:01:06] you know, much information we could in

[4:01:09] that short amount of time that we were

[4:01:10] able to create for that narrated video.

[4:01:14] And in terms of um you know what would

[4:01:19] and you know heaven forbid we don't go

[4:01:23] back you know through anything like

[4:01:25] we've experienced this this spring but

[4:01:28] um you know in terms of what would cut

[4:01:32] down the time uh to develop a video um

[4:01:37] whether that's reflective back on the

[4:01:39] Meyer case or uh currently what we've

[4:01:42] experienced

[4:01:44] I I think one of the biggest hurdles we

[4:01:46] ran into was just um lack of uh

[4:01:49] technology software be able to put

[4:01:51] something like that together and just

[4:01:52] knowledge and so that's why we kind of

[4:01:53] leaned on regional partners that had

[4:01:55] folks that had some experience and the

[4:01:57] the ability and the software to do that.

[4:01:59] So, um, you know, hopefully we never

[4:02:03] have to come into this type of situation

[4:02:04] again, but we do have folks now that

[4:02:07] we're working alongside our regional

[4:02:09] partners to be able to gain that

[4:02:10] knowledge and, you know, have that

[4:02:12] software available now so that we could

[4:02:15] do a little bit more of it ourselves and

[4:02:16] be a little bit faster, I think.

[4:02:18] >> And is does Axon also do this service?

[4:02:23] » And is does Axon also do this service?

[4:02:23] >> Not to my knowledge, no. And but there

[4:02:25] » Not to my knowledge, no. And but there

[4:02:25] there are vendors that work with local

[4:02:28] police departments.

[4:02:30] >> I'm not aware of any vendors. Yeah.

[4:02:33] » I'm not aware of any vendors. Yeah.

[4:02:33] >> Okay.

[4:02:40] » Mr. Will,

[4:02:41] did you you were making a motion toward

[4:02:43] your microphone?

[4:02:44] >> Yes. Um and we haven't talked about

[4:02:48] » Yes. Um and we haven't talked about

[4:02:48] this.

[4:02:50] Can you help me with the perception

[4:02:53] of a police officer where they would use

[4:02:57] either less lethal or lethal force? What

[4:03:00] would be part of their decision

[4:03:06] based on their perspective

[4:03:08] when is appropriate to use less lethal

[4:03:10] as compared to lethal?

[4:03:12] So again, they would have to refer back

[4:03:14] to their training which um again is

[4:03:16] guided by case law which um we spoke to

[4:03:19] in terms of Graham versus Connor. Um

[4:03:22] that is exactly what they would have to

[4:03:24] rely to make that decision and again

[4:03:26] it's a three-pronged approach. So that

[4:03:28] is the severity of the crime, whether

[4:03:30] there's an immediate threat to the

[4:03:32] officer or to the public and whether

[4:03:34] there's an active resistance or or a

[4:03:36] fight.

[4:03:37] >> Okay. Um, and maybe I need a little

[4:03:41] » Okay. Um, and maybe I need a little

[4:03:41] attitude because I'm gonna ask a

[4:03:42] personal question. We um,

[4:03:46] can I ask Chief why you became a police

[4:03:49] officer?

[4:03:51] You can take a second to think. This is

[4:03:53] an interview. I'm just asking.

[4:03:57] >> Well, I think the answer that I hear

[4:03:58] » Well, I think the answer that I hear

[4:03:58] most from others when we do interviews

[4:04:00] is that they want to help others. Um,

[4:04:04] as you all are aware, I spent 10 years

[4:04:07] or excuse me, 15 years in law

[4:04:09] enforcement and I left and went into the

[4:04:10] private sector and I watched my daughter

[4:04:14] who graduated from the police academy

[4:04:16] and went into um, Lancing Police

[4:04:19] Department and watched her passion and

[4:04:23] love for helping people in the community

[4:04:26] and trying to make her department

[4:04:28] better. And I truly missed that. And

[4:04:32] that's what brought me back into law

[4:04:34] enforcement is I felt like my job as an

[4:04:37] officer wasn't done and that I could

[4:04:40] really help um this police department in

[4:04:43] particular and this community

[4:04:47] um that I knew was struggling. I knew

[4:04:50] coming into this this position that this

[4:04:53] department and this community needed

[4:04:55] change. And I'm honestly trying my best

[4:04:59] to do that every single day that I come

[4:05:01] to work.

[4:05:03] >> Thank you. Um, and I'm sorry, associate

[4:05:06] » Thank you. Um, and I'm sorry, associate

[4:05:06] chief or deputy chief or what's your

[4:05:09] title?

[4:05:09] >> Assistant chief.

[4:05:10] » Assistant chief.

[4:05:10] >> Assistant chief. Do you mind if I ask

[4:05:12] » Assistant chief. Do you mind if I ask

[4:05:12] you, um, what do you look for in new

[4:05:15] officers when you ask them? I'm not sure

[4:05:17] if that's still a question you ask why

[4:05:19] they want to be a police officer. What

[4:05:21] are things you look for? and there's

[4:05:24] lots of people that want to do this job,

[4:05:26] less than before,

[4:05:28] >> but now that there's less people

[4:05:29] » but now that there's less people

[4:05:30] applying, you maybe you have to be more

[4:05:31] discerning. What do you look for in

[4:05:35] police officers?

[4:05:36] >> I think simply just a a passion for

[4:05:38] » I think simply just a a passion for

[4:05:38] public service. Uh folks that want to

[4:05:40] give of themselves to make the community

[4:05:42] better and to, you know, help people on

[4:05:45] their worst day. Um in 27 years, I've

[4:05:48] had I've never had anybody call me up

[4:05:49] and say, you know, hey, I'm having the

[4:05:51] best day ever. uh that's not typically

[4:05:53] the calls that we get. So folks that are

[4:05:55] are willing to to shoulder that and uh

[4:05:58] and and provide quality service in the

[4:06:00] moment and have that passion for helping

[4:06:02] others.

[4:06:03] >> Okay. I had nothing from there.

[4:06:08] » Just a couple I want to u confirm. I

[4:06:12] think you said this earlier so I just

[4:06:13] want to make sure I got this right that

[4:06:15] you know the MCO's policies are the

[4:06:16] minimum policies for every police agency

[4:06:18] in the in the state of Michigan.

[4:06:20] Correct.

[4:06:21] >> Yes. because MCOs governs all of the

[4:06:24] » Yes. because MCOs governs all of the

[4:06:24] agencies within the state and obviously

[4:06:26] um or for those that are not aware there

[4:06:28] are many small agencies that don't have

[4:06:30] the resources that much larger agencies

[4:06:32] have to uh burden and so those the

[4:06:36] policies that MOS makes has to also take

[4:06:39] that into account and encompass what

[4:06:41] those smaller agencies can do. So again

[4:06:43] you are correct it is the minimum

[4:06:44] standard

[4:06:45] >> and the uh to the extent that we have

[4:06:49] » and the uh to the extent that we have

[4:06:49] different policies they are just

[4:06:51] basically expansions of the MCO policies

[4:06:54] perhaps even more detailed than the

[4:06:57] MCO's policies. Is that correct?

[4:07:00] >> Yes that is correct and we are an

[4:07:01] » Yes that is correct and we are an

[4:07:01] accredited agency through the Michigan

[4:07:02] Association of Chiefs of Police as well

[4:07:05] meaning that our standards have been

[4:07:06] looked at thoroughly by outside sources

[4:07:08] and our uh best practice.

[4:07:11] And then I I want to ask you, you know,

[4:07:12] in an officer involved shooting, is

[4:07:15] there a policy which applies as to what

[4:07:19] happens after the event has occurred?

[4:07:23] >> Yeah. So, we've been relying on all of

[4:07:24] » Yeah. So, we've been relying on all of

[4:07:24] our policies and, you know, making sure

[4:07:27] that we're following those on a daily

[4:07:29] basis. There's several policies that

[4:07:31] apply. Again, these are all on the site,

[4:07:32] but there's um a deadly force policy,

[4:07:35] there's critical incident policy, the

[4:07:37] response to resistance policy, a media

[4:07:39] policy. It's a combination of policies

[4:07:41] that we've been following very very

[4:07:43] closely over the last month.

[4:07:45] >> And in uh in an officer involved

[4:07:49] » And in uh in an officer involved

[4:07:49] shooting, there is an investigation that

[4:07:51] takes place after the event has

[4:07:53] occurred. Is that correct?

[4:07:55] >> Yes, that's what we

[4:07:56] » Yes, that's what we

[4:07:56] >> is there a standard policy that applies

[4:07:58] » is there a standard policy that applies

[4:07:58] to that with regard to the officer

[4:08:00] involved.

[4:08:02] >> So there's not very a specific policy

[4:08:05] » So there's not very a specific policy

[4:08:05] that states that, but that has been

[4:08:07] protocol. So that's what we we will be

[4:08:09] following.

[4:08:10] >> And the protocol would be to place the

[4:08:13] » And the protocol would be to place the

[4:08:13] officer on administrative leave.

[4:08:15] >> The the policy or excuse me, the

[4:08:17] » The the policy or excuse me, the

[4:08:17] protocol is for us to do an internal

[4:08:21] investigation sometime after the

[4:08:23] completion of the Michigan State Police

[4:08:25] investigation. Is that what you're

[4:08:27] asking?

[4:08:27] >> I'm asking if the officer involved is

[4:08:31] » I'm asking if the officer involved is

[4:08:31] placed on administrative leave while the

[4:08:33] investigation takes place.

[4:08:36] So the administration um for the

[4:08:38] department has some flexibility in terms

[4:08:41] of what the status of those officers are

[4:08:44] after the completion of the Michigan

[4:08:45] State Police investigation.

[4:08:47] >> Okay. After

[4:08:50] » Okay. After

[4:08:50] >> but during

[4:08:52] » but during

[4:08:52] what happens?

[4:08:53] >> We still have that flexibility.

[4:08:55] » We still have that flexibility.

[4:08:55] >> Okay. And in and when the Michigan State

[4:08:58] » Okay. And in and when the Michigan State

[4:08:58] Police investigation is complete,

[4:09:03] that report is provided to who?

[4:09:08] >> So again, do you want us to speak to the

[4:09:09] » So again, do you want us to speak to the

[4:09:09] specific investigation?

[4:09:15] » Are you asking specific to this

[4:09:17] investigation or just in general?

[4:09:18] >> Any any investigation. So, in general,

[4:09:20] » Any any investigation. So, in general,

[4:09:20] we can speak that um other agencies in

[4:09:23] the county have experienced it where the

[4:09:25] Michigan State Police have completed

[4:09:26] their investigation. They turn it over

[4:09:29] to the Ingram County Prosecutor's Office

[4:09:31] where the prosecutor will then make a

[4:09:33] decision and typically those cases are

[4:09:36] turned over to the attorney general for

[4:09:38] their final review. And that would be

[4:09:40] our expectation that this uh particular

[4:09:43] incident in that circumstance based on

[4:09:46] what we know from Ingam County in the

[4:09:49] past that uh the local prosecutor is

[4:09:52] likely to turn this over to the attorney

[4:09:54] general's office for in for

[4:09:56] >> I think that's a fair expectation.

[4:09:58] » I think that's a fair expectation.

[4:09:58] >> Okay. And uh is there any knowledge as

[4:10:01] » Okay. And uh is there any knowledge as

[4:10:01] to how long those uh reviews typically

[4:10:06] take? We do not.

[4:10:10] >> Do you want me?

[4:10:11] » Do you want me?

[4:10:11] >> Yeah. Could you

[4:10:11] » Yeah. Could you

[4:10:11] >> just from experience they can take uh

[4:10:14] » just from experience they can take uh

[4:10:14] several months upwards of a year.

[4:10:16] >> Okay.

[4:10:17] » Okay.

[4:10:17] >> Or more.

[4:10:18] » Or more.

[4:10:18] >> Or more. Okay. And our expectation would

[4:10:21] » Or more. Okay. And our expectation would

[4:10:21] be that that's the process that we're

[4:10:24] expecting to be followed going forward.

[4:10:27] Is that right?

[4:10:28] >> That is correct.

[4:10:29] » That is correct.

[4:10:29] >> Okay. Thanks. That's all I've got.

[4:10:32] » Okay. Thanks. That's all I've got.

[4:10:32] >> Yeah. Mr. Griggsby.

[4:10:33] » Yeah. Mr. Griggsby.

[4:10:33] >> Uh yes. Um,

[4:10:37] » Uh yes. Um,

[4:10:37] I'm I'm sorry. Is it Lieutenant Lauro or

[4:10:40] is it Sergeant?

[4:10:41] >> That's Captain O'Hario.

[4:10:42] » That's Captain O'Hario.

[4:10:42] >> Captain. Oh, I'm I'm actually sorry

[4:10:44] » Captain. Oh, I'm I'm actually sorry

[4:10:44] about that.

[4:10:45] >> That's okay. [laughter]

[4:10:45] » That's okay. [laughter]

[4:10:45] >> Um, so I know I met with you at the

[4:10:49] » Um, so I know I met with you at the

[4:10:49] deescalation training that we just went

[4:10:52] through and I appreciate you allowing me

[4:10:54] to come in there and and allowing me to

[4:10:57] kind of get a view of that training. But

[4:10:59] you also talked about the other part of

[4:11:02] your job. I think uh that is responsive

[4:11:06] to the community. Is that correct? Or

[4:11:07] can you explain to me what you told me

[4:11:10] what you do when it comes to contact

[4:11:12] with the community?

[4:11:14] >> Yeah. What about community engagement?

[4:11:16] » Yeah. What about community engagement?

[4:11:16] >> Yes. Yes. Is that part of what you do?

[4:11:18] » Yes. Yes. Is that part of what you do?

[4:11:18] >> Yes, that is part of what I do.

[4:11:20] » Yes, that is part of what I do.

[4:11:20] >> Okay. So, and I'm just asking in

[4:11:23] » Okay. So, and I'm just asking in

[4:11:23] general, I just know that with this

[4:11:26] going on and some of the timelines I'm

[4:11:28] thinking that we're going to deal with,

[4:11:30] is there a is there a capacity to

[4:11:33] possibly work with an organized group of

[4:11:37] the community? just talk with them and

[4:11:39] meet with them in a in an appropriate

[4:11:42] type of way in order for us to all be

[4:11:45] working together as opposed to them

[4:11:47] doing this and you guys doing that in a

[4:11:49] way that respects

[4:11:51] um the due process of everything that's

[4:11:54] going on. Is that is that something that

[4:11:57] that we could consider? um and not

[4:12:00] specifically you to your job, but I just

[4:12:02] was thinking about when we talked that I

[4:12:05] didn't realize that there is a capacity

[4:12:07] possibly or opportunity within that um

[4:12:11] um in a way to

[4:12:14] um I mean because look we I mean

[4:12:17] eventually we'll be in a situation where

[4:12:19] we'll be going forward and I think going

[4:12:21] forward uh we have to do it together as

[4:12:24] best we can when we can however we can

[4:12:26] and um I just want to throw throw that I

[4:12:29] guess that abstract idea out to all of

[4:12:32] you. Uh and for the community also to be

[4:12:35] in a situation where they're prepared to

[4:12:38] also want to um have a productive

[4:12:42] going forward eventually when it's

[4:12:44] appropriate time to kind of do that. So

[4:12:46] uh could you respond to that please?

[4:12:48] >> Can I answer that please? So we are

[4:12:51] » Can I answer that please? So we are

[4:12:51] always looking for ways for community

[4:12:52] engagement. Again, the difficulty is

[4:12:54] because there's an open investigation

[4:12:56] that could be several weeks or or up to

[4:12:58] a year. We would be willing to have

[4:13:01] those community type engagement events,

[4:13:04] but it will be difficult because I think

[4:13:06] the community will expect specific

[4:13:09] answers to questions related to this

[4:13:11] case. And so if there's ways to have

[4:13:14] engagement and conversations and, you

[4:13:17] know,

[4:13:19] allow us to get feedback on how to do

[4:13:21] things better, we're always willing to

[4:13:24] make that happen. But again, we wouldn't

[4:13:26] be able to answer any specifics about

[4:13:29] this case.

[4:13:30] >> Yeah. And I and and I understand that

[4:13:32] » Yeah. And I and and I understand that

[4:13:32] and I think to a certain level, a lot of

[4:13:34] people do understand that in the

[4:13:36] community. I I just think um

[4:13:40] maybe in more in a general context as

[4:13:43] far as policy, policy education, policy

[4:13:46] goals, and just having a conversation

[4:13:49] with uh community members who are

[4:13:51] willing to

[4:13:53] learn more about that so then they can

[4:13:54] advocate in a way that is something

[4:13:58] that's in intertwined with kind of the

[4:14:02] department's goals as far as the

[4:14:04] community is concerned and that

[4:14:05] connection. I think that's what I'm

[4:14:07] really asking about. Um, and just that

[4:14:09] appetite for that and really quite

[4:14:11] frankly the the necessity of that for us

[4:14:14] to go forward as a department and the

[4:14:17] community and and being able to start

[4:14:20] eventually a process of healing. So,

[4:14:22] >> so the chief did talk about that and

[4:14:25] » so the chief did talk about that and

[4:14:25] actually was presented in the slideshow.

[4:14:26] We just did graduate 19 members from the

[4:14:29] community uh from the citizens police

[4:14:31] academy and currently our capacity is to

[4:14:33] only host one citizens police academy a

[4:14:35] year because our staffing is so so short

[4:14:37] and so low. Uh we do other community

[4:14:39] engagement events including recruiting

[4:14:41] fairs at LCC which was the techmen of

[4:14:44] colors. We're doing recruiting events uh

[4:14:46] if we have staffing at the glam coming

[4:14:48] up as well. Uh and community engagement

[4:14:50] events where we have tables and we

[4:14:52] interact with people. The Easter egg

[4:14:53] hunt that was talked about in the slide.

[4:14:55] So, we do quite a few, but in regards to

[4:14:57] your specific like education piece, um

[4:14:59] the Citizens Police Academy and there's

[4:15:01] people um that have graduated that were

[4:15:03] in the audience today that have

[4:15:04] graduated from the Citizens Police

[4:15:06] Academy and has been very uh successful

[4:15:08] or eye opening for many. So, if you're

[4:15:10] interested in that, I'd love to have you

[4:15:14] jump in that class, but that will be

[4:15:15] those are always held in the early

[4:15:17] spring winter. Uh and those classes are

[4:15:19] always full.

[4:15:22] >> Thank you. Any further comments or

[4:15:27] » Thank you. Any further comments or

[4:15:27] questions? I had just one question

[4:15:30] uh related to actually the swatting

[4:15:31] incidents. [clears throat] So, you're

[4:15:34] understaffed. Those things are probably

[4:15:36] pretty intensive in terms of the

[4:15:38] response u because you have to be

[4:15:41] prepared for whatever could be going on

[4:15:43] there for real. Could you address a

[4:15:45] little bit how you manage to cover those

[4:15:48] incidents um given your staffing levels?

[4:15:52] So when we do have a drain on staff of a

[4:15:55] major incident like that, um it does it

[4:15:58] does uh pause essentially everything

[4:16:00] that is non-priority or that is a lesser

[4:16:03] priority. Um which causes uh potential

[4:16:06] concern uh that we're aware of. Um and

[4:16:09] if we need to, we call in mutual aid to

[4:16:11] assist us. So uh we have mutual aid

[4:16:13] agreements with all agencies that

[4:16:14] surround us that will come in and assist

[4:16:16] and back us. Some of them will respond

[4:16:18] to the primary scene, in this instance,

[4:16:19] the high school. Others will just kind

[4:16:21] of backfill. Um if there's traffic

[4:16:23] accidents where injuries occur or things

[4:16:25] of that nature, they'll come in. Uh very

[4:16:28] similar to the fire department, you saw

[4:16:30] some of the stats on mutual aid runs as

[4:16:32] well. Um so yes, that's why it is very

[4:16:34] concerning that these swatting

[4:16:35] incidences tie up uh resources that

[4:16:39] could be used for other real emergencies

[4:16:42] as in real occurring emergencies. Um and

[4:16:45] so as we we look at that, we are working

[4:16:47] with uh partners uh including uh larger

[4:16:51] partners, state and federal um because

[4:16:53] some of the swatting uh investigation is

[4:16:55] being collaborated with them to try to

[4:16:58] find out who actually did it. Um and we

[4:17:00] will hold those people accountable um if

[4:17:03] we can prove who they are. So it is very

[4:17:06] serious.

[4:17:07] >> Did the admin have to get involved?

[4:17:09] » Did the admin have to get involved?

[4:17:10] >> Pardon?

[4:17:10] » Pardon?

[4:17:10] >> Did admin have to get involved? So, um,

[4:17:13] » Did admin have to get involved? So, um,

[4:17:13] yeah, to answer your question a little

[4:17:14] bit more specifically, um, so, um,

[4:17:16] Assistant Chief Croft was at the first

[4:17:18] swatting incident as well as the second

[4:17:20] one. Um, so he led that first, um,

[4:17:23] incident command. Um, and again,

[4:17:26] regional partners had to be drawn in to

[4:17:29] to assist with that incident. The second

[4:17:31] one, um, Assistant Chief Craft and I

[4:17:33] responded ourselves, um, again, to make

[4:17:36] sure that, you know, the city was taken

[4:17:38] care of and the high school was safe. Um

[4:17:40] but for the second one, we had enough

[4:17:42] staffing of our own to be able to handle

[4:17:43] it. But again, um Captain O'Hary is spot

[4:17:47] on in terms of the amount of resources

[4:17:48] these take. And you know, it pulls away

[4:17:51] from other incidences that we should be

[4:17:53] responding to. So again, if it's

[4:17:55] something simple as a traffic accident

[4:17:57] in the city, even when there's no

[4:17:59] injuries, you who wants to sit at that

[4:18:01] traffic accident for an hour waiting for

[4:18:04] a cop to arrive. So it definitely, you

[4:18:06] know, depletes and defers our resources

[4:18:10] on hand.

[4:18:11] >> So it's all it's all hands- on deck in

[4:18:13] » So it's all it's all hands- on deck in

[4:18:13] that sort of situation.

[4:18:15] >> Absolutely.

[4:18:17] » Absolutely.

[4:18:17] >> Any further questions? Council member

[4:18:20] » Any further questions? Council member

[4:18:20] Singh,

[4:18:21] >> I just um I this is more directed uh to

[4:18:24] » I just um I this is more directed uh to

[4:18:24] the city manager to work with ELPD. two

[4:18:28] of the items that came from the Citizens

[4:18:32] for Justice talk about police policy. Uh

[4:18:36] numbers three and four. If you could uh

[4:18:39] work with the ELPD team to create, um

[4:18:44] potential options for those two policy

[4:18:46] areas um within the cited legal cases.

[4:18:52] Um

[4:18:54] I'd be interested to see that.

[4:18:59] That's it.

[4:19:00] >> Anything else?

[4:19:03] » Anything else?

[4:19:03] Anything from the city manager that we

[4:19:05] need to hear?

[4:19:06] >> I have nothing.

[4:19:07] » I have nothing.

[4:19:07] >> Okay. Any anything else we need to hear

[4:19:09] » Okay. Any anything else we need to hear

[4:19:09] from

[4:19:11] >> police administration?

[4:19:13] » police administration?

[4:19:13] Thank you for all Thank you for coming

[4:19:15] tonight and for addressing our

[4:19:17] questions.

[4:19:25] » Okay. Okay. So that brings us to item uh

[4:19:27] 4.2

[4:19:29] discussion of proposed 2026 2027

[4:19:32] strategic priorities. I will ask whether

[4:19:35] people are up for forging ahead with

[4:19:38] this.

[4:19:40] >> It's only 133 pages.

[4:19:42] » It's only 133 pages.

[4:19:42] >> What's what's the goal out of this?

[4:19:44] » What's what's the goal out of this?

[4:19:44] Because I know it's been in our budget

[4:19:46] pack. So it'd be good to understand.

[4:19:51] » Yeah. So I'll let the city manager

[4:19:53] address.

[4:19:54] tonight is to review these draft

[4:19:58] um strategic priorities for 2026 27 so

[4:20:03] that ultimately you will adopt them and

[4:20:06] they will become formal um for us to use

[4:20:09] in guiding allocation of city resources

[4:20:13] in the form of property taxes, income

[4:20:15] tax, grants, water sour uh revenues,

[4:20:18] fees and most importantly staff time.

[4:20:21] >> [snorts]

[4:20:24] » Mr. I with with everything going on, I

[4:20:27] haven't had a chance to thoroughly I

[4:20:30] just haven't had a chance to really

[4:20:31] thoroughly go through this and I'm not

[4:20:33] quite sure if I'm the only one um that

[4:20:36] hasn't. Um but I would I would love the

[4:20:39] opportunity to kind of really go through

[4:20:41] this in a way that I can really

[4:20:43] appreciate

[4:20:45] um the 133 pages of information so I can

[4:20:48] better wrap my head around that. Um, and

[4:20:51] so I don't know uh kind of where

[4:20:53] everyone else is with that, but that

[4:20:55] would be something that I would hope we

[4:20:57] could consider.

[4:20:59] >> Others other thoughts?

[4:21:05] I'll just say if if the if the question

[4:21:07] is to defer this to the next um

[4:21:13] discussion only meeting this is that

[4:21:16] would be after the budget has been uh

[4:21:19] approved hopefully [laughter] and if um

[4:21:22] if anything any part of this really

[4:21:25] impacts the decision that we're about to

[4:21:28] make um I guess at the next business

[4:21:30] meeting for uh with regard to the budget

[4:21:33] then we probably should keep going. But

[4:21:36] by the same token, I think it's a good

[4:21:39] idea to give everybody an opportunity to

[4:21:41] really get into this and think about it.

[4:21:45] Some new members were not involved in

[4:21:47] the in the the strategic priorities we

[4:21:50] established two years ago. And uh you

[4:21:54] know, I think it'd be useful to to make

[4:21:56] sure that maybe we have uh a little more

[4:22:00] sort of background information on what

[4:22:02] we were trying to accomplish at that

[4:22:04] time. So,

[4:22:05] >> Council Member Singh, did that answer

[4:22:07] » Council Member Singh, did that answer

[4:22:07] your question? Did you have a follow-up?

[4:22:10] >> I mean, it sounds like the purpose of

[4:22:13] » I mean, it sounds like the purpose of

[4:22:13] tonight's session is just to prepare us

[4:22:16] to vote on the budget and agree with the

[4:22:19] strategic priorities.

[4:22:21] >> So, the purpose tonight is go through

[4:22:23] » So, the purpose tonight is go through

[4:22:23] the proposed 2627

[4:22:27] um and offer any opportunities

[4:22:30] >> priorities or budget. Wait, we

[4:22:32] » priorities or budget. Wait, we

[4:22:32] >> strategic priorities.

[4:22:33] » strategic priorities.

[4:22:33] >> Yeah.

[4:22:34] » Yeah.

[4:22:34] and offer opportunities to amend add

[4:22:39] um priorities that may not have been

[4:22:42] captured or amend some of the ones that

[4:22:44] are being proposed.

[4:22:47] >> So if I understand what you were saying

[4:22:49] » So if I understand what you were saying

[4:22:49] is that we need to go through this

[4:22:52] process in order to stay within

[4:22:55] alignment with our budget decision that

[4:22:57] we have coming up. Is that what you're

[4:22:58] saying?

[4:22:58] >> No, I'm not saying that actually. Uh I

[4:23:01] » No, I'm not saying that actually. Uh I

[4:23:01] think that it is uh related to the

[4:23:03] budget because our priorities you know

[4:23:06] basically establish the budget but the

[4:23:09] establishment of strategic priorities is

[4:23:12] a thing of its own. This is the

[4:23:14] council's priorities. This is not staff

[4:23:16] priorities. you know, hopefully they

[4:23:18] agree with them, but the reality is this

[4:23:21] is us setting the priorities for the

[4:23:24] next two years uh in terms of what our

[4:23:28] expectations would be and and I'll just

[4:23:31] say that in the you know when we

[4:23:34] established the first set of strategic

[4:23:36] priorities

[4:23:38] the it had its own meeting

[4:23:41] basically so that we had an indepth

[4:23:44] discussion on each one of these things

[4:23:46] and frankly it was a big deal and every

[4:23:49] one of the five uh city council members

[4:23:52] made a presentation to the public on one

[4:23:54] of the priorities. So, uh it's changed

[4:23:58] over the years um in some respects, but

[4:24:01] this is an important document

[4:24:04] that u the public I think needs to see

[4:24:08] that we need to spend time with. And uh

[4:24:12] so all I'm saying is we've got a budget

[4:24:14] coming up to the extent that this may

[4:24:17] dictate something in this budget. Then

[4:24:20] maybe we got to spend the time right now

[4:24:23] to to go through this. If it's not, then

[4:24:27] uh we can have it on at a at a meeting

[4:24:31] and spend the whole time digging through

[4:24:34] this and making our comments with regard

[4:24:36] to it. So, I don't know what everybody

[4:24:38] wants to do, but I don't have a problem

[4:24:41] with waiting to do this. I just don't

[4:24:45] want it to impact what we're we're

[4:24:48] required to do, which is to vote on this

[4:24:52] budget. I think by the 29th

[4:24:57] >> 6,

[4:24:58] » 6,

[4:24:58] >> I think it's before that actually the

[4:25:00] » I think it's before that actually the

[4:25:00] third meeting in in May.

[4:25:01] >> Next meeting.

[4:25:02] » Next meeting.

[4:25:02] >> Next Tuesday.

[4:25:03] » Next Tuesday.

[4:25:03] >> Next meeting. The reality though is 98%

[4:25:05] » Next meeting. The reality though is 98%

[4:25:05] of our budgets ba I mean in terms of the

[4:25:07] recommendation

[4:25:09] >> for this year and the staff priorities

[4:25:12] » for this year and the staff priorities

[4:25:12] that you put together is how you built

[4:25:14] the budget because you had staff

[4:25:16] meetings. Yeah.

[4:25:17] >> There's some priorities that are not

[4:25:19] » There's some priorities that are not

[4:25:19] funded.

[4:25:19] >> It's a little

[4:25:21] » It's a little

[4:25:21] >> Yeah, it's a little

[4:25:22] » Yeah, it's a little

[4:25:22] >> it doesn't matter if we do this tonight.

[4:25:24] » it doesn't matter if we do this tonight.

[4:25:24] That's the punch line. Essentially, this

[4:25:25] is us saying

[4:25:28] regardless of this budget that over the

[4:25:31] next two years, this is our expectation.

[4:25:34] These will be our priorities. These are

[4:25:35] the things that we want to accomplish

[4:25:37] and that we need to be working to make

[4:25:40] sure that those are accomplished during

[4:25:41] that time. Doesn't mean we don't add

[4:25:43] things or that other things come up, but

[4:25:47] this is sort of the game plan. So,

[4:25:49] >> Mr. Whan, did you have thoughts on this?

[4:25:51] » Mr. Whan, did you have thoughts on this?

[4:25:51] I thought [clears throat] I did get

[4:25:54] through most of it. I did not get

[4:25:56] through all of it.

[4:25:58] Is there any way we can have a a bridge

[4:26:01] version of the changes?

[4:26:03] >> Is there significant changes from the

[4:26:05] » Is there significant changes from the

[4:26:05] last

[4:26:07] um strategic priorities?

[4:26:08] >> Well, part of my presentation was to

[4:26:10] » Well, part of my presentation was to

[4:26:10] identify those that were being carried

[4:26:13] over

[4:26:14] >> from 2425,

[4:26:16] » from 2425,

[4:26:16] but the other ones are new.

[4:26:19] >> I'm sorry. What? Which ones are new?

[4:26:21] » I'm sorry. What? Which ones are new?

[4:26:21] >> I said part of my presentation would to

[4:26:23] » I said part of my presentation would to

[4:26:24] identify the ones that are being carried

[4:26:26] over from 2425

[4:26:29] and the others are new. [snorts]

[4:26:32] >> And which ones are the new ones?

[4:26:35] » And which ones are the new ones?

[4:26:35] >> I'd be happy to walk through those with

[4:26:37] » I'd be happy to walk through those with

[4:26:37] you this evening. They're not noted on

[4:26:40] the document you have.

[4:26:42] >> Okay. Okay. Um Yeah. I [clears throat]

[4:26:47] » Okay. Okay. Um Yeah. I [clears throat]

[4:26:47] I wish I tried to devote enough time for

[4:26:50] this, but there's a lot of other things

[4:26:52] that can't get in the way. Um, and I do

[4:26:55] app I do appreciate council member Singh

[4:26:58] mentioning that this is kind of a staff

[4:27:01] generated.

[4:27:02] My concern is there's something in there

[4:27:05] that I missed all of a sudden and it's

[4:27:07] like, wait a minute, this is your

[4:27:09] priority. Why aren't you doing this? So,

[4:27:12] um I guess I'm leaning heavily

[4:27:15] on

[4:27:17] our city manager to say that this is

[4:27:20] where

[4:27:22] um this this is where we're heading and

[4:27:25] I just want to make sure I can sign off

[4:27:27] on it. So, I guess between now and next

[4:27:29] Tuesday,

[4:27:31] I will dive into it more. I'm just

[4:27:34] wondering if there's a cliffnotes of

[4:27:36] some of the changes that that we need to

[4:27:39] be aware of. Um because I don't know

[4:27:41] what the I don't know what they were two

[4:27:44] years ago.

[4:27:47] Does that make sense?

[4:27:48] >> Yes, I understand.

[4:27:50] » Yes, I understand.

[4:27:50] >> So, how long would it take for you to

[4:27:52] » So, how long would it take for you to

[4:27:52] present the changes?

[4:27:55] >> I can identify the ones that are

[4:27:59] » I can identify the ones that are

[4:27:59] carryover from prior years. If you want

[4:28:02] me just to highlight those this evening,

[4:28:05] >> I I suggest we do a little bit of work

[4:28:07] » I I suggest we do a little bit of work

[4:28:07] on that front. Does that would are

[4:28:09] people okay with that? Um

[4:28:11] >> highlight the the the carryovers.

[4:28:13] » highlight the the the carryovers.

[4:28:13] That'll get us thinking about it and

[4:28:14] then I suggest that we um just carry

[4:28:18] this over to our next DO meeting so that

[4:28:20] we all have a chance to

[4:28:23] finish the review. Is that

[4:28:28] » I think that's a good way of going.

[4:28:29] >> Mayor Prom.

[4:28:30] » Mayor Prom.

[4:28:30] >> Yes, sir.

[4:28:31] » Yes, sir.

[4:28:31] >> Council Sang.

[4:28:34] » Council Sang.

[4:28:34] >> Okay.

[4:28:35] » Okay.

[4:28:35] >> So, just the floor is yours. uh if I may

[4:28:38] » So, just the floor is yours. uh if I may

[4:28:38] 2026 27 strategic priorities include 60

[4:28:43] goals under six focus areas. Focus areas

[4:28:46] are financial stability that have nine

[4:28:49] goals, strong economy that have four,

[4:28:52] sound infrastructure and environmental

[4:28:54] sustainability have nine goals, safe

[4:28:57] community has 12, sense of place has

[4:29:00] eight, and high performing government

[4:29:02] has 18. So I'm going to just highlight

[4:29:04] the ones um

[4:29:08] that carry over from

[4:29:11] 2425

[4:29:15] and there are under financial stability.

[4:29:20] Goal eight and goal nine carryover from

[4:29:24] the prior strategic priorities

[4:29:28] [clears throat]

[4:29:29] [snorts]

[4:29:30] under the focus area of a strong

[4:29:32] economy. Goal one, goal two,

[4:29:37] and goal three carryover from prior

[4:29:42] strategic priorities.

[4:29:51] under sound infrastructure and

[4:29:53] environmental sustainability.

[4:29:55] Um the opening statement is really

[4:30:00] continuation of 2425.

[4:30:03] Um, goal seven number A and goal number

[4:30:08] two is a continuation as well as goal

[4:30:11] three

[4:30:15] and and

[4:30:17] uh goal four action item L,

[4:30:22] goal six,

[4:30:25] goal seven, and goal eight

[4:30:30] as well as

[4:30:32] goal 10 in that focus area [snorts]

[4:30:37] under the focus area of safe community.

[4:30:45] Those were all new

[4:30:48] under sense of place.

[4:30:51] uh goal one,

[4:30:54] goal two,

[4:30:56] goal five,

[4:30:58] goal six,

[4:31:01] our carryover from 202425.

[4:31:06] And under the final focus area of high

[4:31:09] performing government, goal one,

[4:31:15] goal five,

[4:31:18] goal 7,

[4:31:20] goal 10,

[4:31:24] goal 18, carryover from 24 25.

[4:31:29] [snorts]

[4:31:32] I can send that out in a memo to you too

[4:31:35] if you would like me to [laughter]

[4:31:38] >> I know you have strong recollection and

[4:31:41] » I know you have strong recollection and

[4:31:42] >> so we've had a request to to do that.

[4:31:45] » so we've had a request to to do that.

[4:31:45] >> Okay.

[4:31:45] » Okay.

[4:31:45] >> Um any reactions to that brief overview

[4:31:50] » Um any reactions to that brief overview

[4:31:50] questions or comments?

[4:31:53] >> Mr. Griggsby,

[4:31:54] » Mr. Griggsby,

[4:31:54] >> I just thank you for adjusting. I mean I

[4:31:56] » I just thank you for adjusting. I mean I

[4:31:56] know you

[4:31:56] >> Oh, you're welcome. you had a you had a

[4:31:59] » Oh, you're welcome. you had a you had a

[4:31:59] something probably else in mind and I

[4:32:01] like I said I do apologize that um I

[4:32:04] just didn't thoroughly have a the

[4:32:05] capacity to go through all of this and I

[4:32:08] really want to appreciate it and learn

[4:32:10] up because I you know this I think this

[4:32:12] is important as as council member uh

[4:32:15] Meadows had mentioned um and there was a

[4:32:17] lot of work put into this and I just

[4:32:20] want to make sure that I'm on the same

[4:32:21] page uh as I visit departments and meet

[4:32:26] with people and just kind really make

[4:32:27] sure that I'm understanding

[4:32:30] um how to best serve going forward. So,

[4:32:34] thank you.

[4:32:34] >> Sure.

[4:32:35] » Sure.

[4:32:35] >> And and if I may, the biggest component

[4:32:38] » And and if I may, the biggest component

[4:32:38] of the

[4:32:40] 133 pages is just a recap and kind of

[4:32:43] summary report of the 2425 strategic

[4:32:46] priorities. Um you know, we tried to

[4:32:49] identify in a graphic format those that

[4:32:52] were completed had a check mark. Those

[4:32:55] that were still being made or progress

[4:32:58] being made had an upward arrow and then

[4:33:00] those that no progress was being made

[4:33:02] was a downward arrow. But after that is

[4:33:05] a lot of details that were shared by

[4:33:08] departments identifying specific

[4:33:11] actions, events, programs, services that

[4:33:14] supported

[4:33:16] those summary reports.

[4:33:19] >> Council member

[4:33:20] » Council member

[4:33:20] >> questions. Yeah, just um so as staff was

[4:33:24] » questions. Yeah, just um so as staff was

[4:33:24] going through some of the the fire chief

[4:33:26] that

[4:33:28] um

[4:33:30] is it increasing cost recovery by 3%.

[4:33:33] >> Right.

[4:33:33] » Right.

[4:33:33] >> Is that an achievable goal that staff

[4:33:37] » Is that an achievable goal that staff

[4:33:37] felt comfortable in including?

[4:33:40] >> I believe so.

[4:33:41] » I believe so.

[4:33:41] >> Okay. We chose that.

[4:33:43] » Okay. We chose that.

[4:33:43] >> And then for the

[4:33:46] » And then for the

[4:33:46] um I think there's another one in terms

[4:33:48] of the parks and rock um

[4:33:51] >> reducing [clears throat] the general

[4:33:52] » reducing [clears throat] the general

[4:33:52] fund contribution.

[4:33:53] >> Yeah. By 10%.

[4:33:55] » Yeah. By 10%.

[4:33:55] >> Yes.

[4:33:56] » Yes.

[4:33:56] >> Um do is that achievable?

[4:33:59] » Um do is that achievable?

[4:33:59] >> So we're we're close. When we did the

[4:34:02] » So we're we're close. When we did the

[4:34:02] adjustment at the last meeting of about

[4:34:05] 400,000,

[4:34:06] you know, we were just shy of 10%

[4:34:09] because I think we're 2.6 6 million. So

[4:34:12] that would have been about 520.

[4:34:14] So about 120,000 shy. I thought that was

[4:34:18] a nice attempt. And I'm I know they'll

[4:34:21] continue to work on trying to shave off

[4:34:24] costs.

[4:34:25] >> And and has the uh parks and wreck

[4:34:28] » And and has the uh parks and wreck

[4:34:28] commission

[4:34:30] had any feedback for our director on

[4:34:32] that goal?

[4:34:33] >> Uh not that I'm aware of. I know he was

[4:34:36] » Uh not that I'm aware of. I know he was

[4:34:36] provided the flexibility of how to

[4:34:38] absorb that reduction in 400,000 and I

[4:34:41] know he was going to take it back to the

[4:34:42] advisory board to share with them some

[4:34:44] of his um conceptual approaches. I don't

[4:34:48] know if that's taken place

[4:34:50] >> and and forgive me because I am skimming

[4:34:53] » and and forgive me because I am skimming

[4:34:53] back through the presentation uh

[4:34:59] in term like I'm looking at some of the

[4:35:01] sense of place and this is definitely

[4:35:08] you know one of the best attributes of

[4:35:11] the city of East Lancing but one I would

[4:35:14] argue is in a challenging time right Now

[4:35:19] um

[4:35:20] like when you talk about address

[4:35:22] barriers to participation of community

[4:35:24] outreach and analyzing program

[4:35:26] participation in demographic area is

[4:35:29] that going to be departmentwide

[4:35:31] departmentalwide across the enterprise.

[4:35:35] >> Yeah I I'm sure uh the approach is

[4:35:38] » Yeah I I'm sure uh the approach is

[4:35:38] across departments but it's going to

[4:35:40] focus on you know I know Matt Apostle is

[4:35:42] doing some of that through DMB and

[4:35:44] tracking who comes to events. I know

[4:35:47] parks and wreck and arts have been doing

[4:35:49] that through all of their programs. Uh

[4:35:51] the scholarship that they offer allows

[4:35:54] for those that may not be able to afford

[4:35:57] outright to attend to be able to attend

[4:35:59] and participate in some of those

[4:36:01] programs. So that hits some of the

[4:36:03] points that fall under [snorts] that

[4:36:05] goal

[4:36:06] >> including demographic area, you know,

[4:36:08] » including demographic area, you know,

[4:36:08] and this the whole [snorts]

[4:36:10] equity piece that has become a bad term

[4:36:16] under this federal administration.

[4:36:18] Um, I know once upon a time we talked

[4:36:21] about or at least privately you and I

[4:36:24] had had a conversation about publishing,

[4:36:28] you know, demographic data on our

[4:36:32] workforce,

[4:36:33] >> right,

[4:36:34] » right,

[4:36:34] >> and moving the needle. Um, do we have

[4:36:37] » and moving the needle. Um, do we have

[4:36:37] any of those pieces outlined

[4:36:40] enterprisewide? And I say that's across

[4:36:42] all departments. That's where some I

[4:36:45] mean the work that still needs to be

[4:36:48] done is to um report on it and see if we

[4:36:53] are in fact having positive impact

[4:36:56] through the investments we make either

[4:36:58] through uh DEI

[4:37:01] office and through HR and our

[4:37:04] recruitment efforts, our um training

[4:37:08] opportunities and trying to get um at

[4:37:11] the organizational level, the workg

[4:37:14] groupoup level and the supervisory level

[4:37:16] all aligned with um inclusive

[4:37:20] type activities, policies and um

[4:37:23] behavior

[4:37:25] >> and how like action item D leverage

[4:37:27] » and how like action item D leverage

[4:37:27] mutually beneficial partnerships to

[4:37:29] provide relevant opportunities to

[4:37:31] responsive to that are responsive to

[4:37:34] community needs. Like who's in charge of

[4:37:36] that?

[4:37:37] >> Which one are you talking about?

[4:37:39] » Which one are you talking about?

[4:37:39] >> Sense of place action item D.

[4:37:43] » Sense of place action item D.

[4:37:43] You want to talk? I'm talking.

[4:37:47] It's because of Whan. Whan, we're still

[4:37:49] here.

[4:37:50] >> Is that under which goal? I'm sorry.

[4:37:51] » Is that under which goal? I'm sorry.

[4:37:52] >> Sense of place.

[4:37:53] » Sense of place.

[4:37:53] >> It's on category.

[4:37:55] » It's on category.

[4:37:55] >> So, I'm looking for

[4:37:57] » So, I'm looking for

[4:37:57] >> page in my document here.

[4:37:59] » page in my document here.

[4:37:59] >> Okay. But there's a goal. Is it goal one

[4:38:02] » Okay. But there's a goal. Is it goal one

[4:38:02] item D?

[4:38:04] >> It's after safe community sense of goal

[4:38:07] » It's after safe community sense of goal

[4:38:07] one action item D.

[4:38:10] >> B. D is in dog.

[4:38:12] » B. D is in dog.

[4:38:12] >> Okay. Leverage mutually beneficial

[4:38:15] » Okay. Leverage mutually beneficial

[4:38:15] partnerships to provide relevant

[4:38:17] opportunities that are responsive to

[4:38:20] community needs. Yeah.

[4:38:21] >> It'll be parks and wreck. It'll be, you

[4:38:23] » It'll be parks and wreck. It'll be, you

[4:38:23] know, other departments that do have

[4:38:25] partnerships

[4:38:27] um through our neighbors,

[4:38:31] be it the university,

[4:38:34] be it the downtown.

[4:38:39] Okay.

[4:38:39] >> But I'll get you further clarification

[4:38:41] » But I'll get you further clarification

[4:38:41] if

[4:38:42] >> Well, I guess at the end of the day,

[4:38:43] » Well, I guess at the end of the day,

[4:38:43] you're in charge ultimately.

[4:38:45] >> Absolutely.

[4:38:46] » Absolutely.

[4:38:46] >> All right, I'm done.

[4:38:49] » All right, I'm done.

[4:38:49] >> So, a couple of comments. I like this

[4:38:50] » So, a couple of comments. I like this

[4:38:50] approach. I think I've been through a

[4:38:52] bunch of versions of the strategic

[4:38:54] priorities as Mark was saying earlier

[4:38:56] and I like I like this idea of having

[4:38:59] staff because they've got hands-on every

[4:39:01] day and generating you know ideas and

[4:39:04] then and then we get to sort of

[4:39:07] snapshot them in place. So I I like this

[4:39:10] approach. One of the things that struck

[4:39:12] me during your recitation of the

[4:39:14] carryover is that there's a lot of new

[4:39:16] goals and action items on here. Um, and

[4:39:19] I guess my [clears throat] question is

[4:39:22] whether uh

[4:39:26] whether there's too many or an

[4:39:28] appropriate number or whether it sort of

[4:39:30] dovetailes with what we're doing anyway.

[4:39:31] I don't want I guess my point is I don't

[4:39:33] want people to think that

[4:39:37] we're asking them to go beyond

[4:39:40] what they have the capacity to do.

[4:39:42] That's kind of my question. And so I

[4:39:44] don't know if

[4:39:47] I hope there's a I hope that appropriate

[4:39:49] level of realism is already built in

[4:39:50] here, but I hope as we sort of review

[4:39:53] this that people should feel free to

[4:39:55] say, okay, this this just is too much

[4:39:58] for us or something like that. That's I

[4:40:00] don't know if you want to address that

[4:40:01] comment.

[4:40:02] >> Sure. So that is in part why this

[4:40:05] » Sure. So that is in part why this

[4:40:05] approach was taken. Uh if you recall

[4:40:07] back in 24 in January, departments got

[4:40:09] up and just told you some of the

[4:40:12] challenges and opportunities that they

[4:40:14] faced and then council shaped the 10

[4:40:17] goals that we adopted in 2425.

[4:40:21] This one is one it involved all

[4:40:23] departments. They all have some element

[4:40:26] of goals and act action items in this

[4:40:30] document. Two, they uh tried to focus on

[4:40:33] what they're already working on. Um,

[4:40:36] three, yes, there's 60 goals in here. We

[4:40:40] may not get to them all where we say at

[4:40:42] the end of two years they're complete.

[4:40:43] Some of these goals are going to be

[4:40:45] ongoing um and require continuous

[4:40:48] conversation with council coming back

[4:40:51] about implications

[4:40:53] of i.e. the storm water authority to

[4:40:56] pursue examine setting up a storm water

[4:40:58] authority is going to have multiple

[4:41:00] levels of discussion with council as to

[4:41:03] what does that look like? what is the

[4:41:04] implications financially and how will it

[4:41:07] benefit the city moving forward.

[4:41:10] >> Okay, that's helpful. So, as long as

[4:41:11] » Okay, that's helpful. So, as long as

[4:41:12] people know that not every goal needs to

[4:41:13] be accomplished in, you know, two years,

[4:41:15] that's I think that's important.

[4:41:17] >> Yeah. No, as you noticed too, as some of

[4:41:19] » Yeah. No, as you noticed too, as some of

[4:41:19] the ones that were not completed carried

[4:41:22] over.

[4:41:22] >> Yep.

[4:41:24] » Yep.

[4:41:24] Um

[4:41:25] >> I'm sorry.

[4:41:27] » I'm sorry.

[4:41:27] >> Was there council member Singh? Did you

[4:41:29] » Was there council member Singh? Did you

[4:41:29] have something you wanted to contribute?

[4:41:31] >> [laughter]

[4:41:32] » [laughter]

[4:41:32] >> I'm just reacting to your statement like

[4:41:34] » I'm just reacting to your statement like

[4:41:34] it's just strange to me to have a goal

[4:41:35] document and then say we're not we may

[4:41:38] not achieve them. Like that is

[4:41:41] bizarre to me from a planning

[4:41:44] standpoint, from a strategic plan, from

[4:41:46] an operational standpoint.

[4:41:48] Um they are there with the intent of

[4:41:50] trying to achieve. But as we all know,

[4:41:54] you know, this document will change.

[4:41:55] It's supposed to be a living document

[4:41:57] based on what we face over the next two

[4:42:00] years. some of what we may get

[4:42:01] challenged by bump some of these off the

[4:42:05] front page and become secondary.

[4:42:08] >> We've definitely experienced that.

[4:42:10] » We've definitely experienced that.

[4:42:10] >> And there's also that opens the door to

[4:42:12] » And there's also that opens the door to

[4:42:12] opportunities too, right? So if

[4:42:14] >> things change in a way that make it

[4:42:16] » things change in a way that make it

[4:42:16] possible to make pro progress on a goal

[4:42:18] that we couldn't make before, then

[4:42:19] that's an opportunity.

[4:42:21] >> Exactly.

[4:42:21] » Exactly.

[4:42:21] >> Um I did have one comment having said

[4:42:24] » Um I did have one comment having said

[4:42:24] that I think there might be too many

[4:42:25] goals. cuz I want to float the idea of

[4:42:26] adding a new one um to the sense of

[4:42:29] place. Um

[4:42:30] >> the comment on that too.

[4:42:31] » the comment on that too.

[4:42:31] >> Yes, you absolutely do. [laughter]

[4:42:33] » Yes, you absolutely do. [laughter]

[4:42:33] Uh which is something that it's grown

[4:42:35] out out of the conversations we've had

[4:42:37] the past couple of years which is um

[4:42:39] under sense of place to add a new goal

[4:42:41] to maintain stability of residential

[4:42:43] neighborhoods.

[4:42:45] Um and I can think of a couple agenda or

[4:42:48] a couple action items that might be

[4:42:49] candidates for that. one is to um

[4:42:51] continue to help um homeowners and

[4:42:54] realtors understand our rental

[4:42:56] regulations

[4:42:57] so that they know what they're getting

[4:42:58] into. Um and also uh work with realtors

[4:43:03] to um help prospective homeowners to try

[4:43:07] to prevent violations of our rental

[4:43:09] regulations before they occur. And I

[4:43:11] suspect we're already doing those things

[4:43:14] um to some extent. Um but if we are then

[4:43:17] it might not hurt to add it. Um, sure.

[4:43:18] But I think there is this issue of sort

[4:43:20] of

[4:43:21] >> helping people understand uh how we got

[4:43:24] » helping people understand uh how we got

[4:43:24] to where we are in terms of our the sort

[4:43:27] of the landscape of our of our

[4:43:28] neighborhoods and how the regulations

[4:43:31] are relevant to that.

[4:43:35] Any further comments on that or anything

[4:43:38] else?

[4:43:40] Okay. So, we will plan to then see this

[4:43:42] on our next DO meeting agenda. Um, a

[4:43:45] month from now

[4:43:47] or three weeks from now,

[4:43:49] >> three weeks.

[4:43:50] » three weeks.

[4:43:50] >> Three weeks. Um, and we'll we got the

[4:43:52] » Three weeks. Um, and we'll we got the

[4:43:52] ball rolling tonight. So, at that point,

[4:43:54] we'll have a sort of fuller discussion.

[4:43:58] Any further comments on anything else?

[4:44:01] Okay, that brings us to uh item five,

[4:44:05] which is adjournment. Is there a motion?

[4:44:08] >> I move to adjurnn. Moved by Singh,

[4:44:11] » I move to adjurnn. Moved by Singh,

[4:44:11] second by Whan. All those in favor say

[4:44:13] I.

[4:44:13] >> I. Motion carries. We are

[4:44:16] » I. Motion carries. We are

[4:44:16] >> adjourned. Thank you all.

City Council Discussion Only - 19 May 2026

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