[5:55] The mayor just started.

[6:01] All right, we're going to start this

[6:02] council committee meeting. Um,

[6:05] first up is Julie.

[6:14] » Oh, I actually have copies of the

[6:15] presentation.

[6:20] Hey Julie,

[6:21] >> just want to take one.

[6:22] >> Julie, while you were starting that

[6:25] about the hydrants, I just got an email

[6:27] just now. The fire hydrant at Ferry and

[6:30] Sick Graves has the front off of it. Is

[6:32] that because of what we're doing?

[6:34] >> No.

[6:34] Okay. Okay.

[6:39] » Did you know that?

[6:40] >> No, but I knew now

[6:43] doesn't matter. It's not turned on that

[6:46] the the valve the the valve covers come

[6:49] off. You got to turn the bolt at the

[6:51] top.

[6:52] >> I didn't know it was coming off.

[6:56] >> No.

[6:56] >> Okay.

[6:59] >> Yeah. So, hello. Um I'm Julie. This is

[7:02] Tony. He's the chair of our uh design

[7:04] committee for East and Main Street

[7:06] Initiative. a little bit about our

[7:08] design committee. It's completely

[7:09] volunteer-run committee and we just um

[7:12] think of ways that we could spruce

[7:14] things up specifically in the in the

[7:15] main street uh district. Uh so over the

[7:18] years the main street design committee

[7:19] has done stuff like the little free

[7:21] libraries and the artistic bike racks um

[7:24] the string lights and bank street all

[7:25] that good stuff. So that's us. Um so a

[7:29] little bit about the paint a hydrant

[7:30] program. So Tony actually brought this

[7:33] idea to our committee uh because he saw

[7:35] it in

[7:36] >> Emmas.

[7:37] >> Um so a lot of towns all over the

[7:39] country do it. Um but the idea is to

[7:42] take submissions from local artists and

[7:45] then assign them to fire hydrants around

[7:47] town to make them a little more

[7:49] beautiful and not just yellow. Um last

[7:52] year when we launched it, the response

[7:55] was really overwhelming. We had a lot of

[7:56] artists apply um and we reviewed all of

[7:59] them and then we sent them all to the

[8:01] fire department to review um and they

[8:04] approved all of them. There was so they

[8:07] do take a close look at it because there

[8:09] was one hydrant design last year that

[8:11] ended up like we had to fix it. So they

[8:13] did a bunch. It's the one on spring

[8:15] garden and third they did a bunch of

[8:16] flowers and it had a black background

[8:18] and Chief uh Hennings was like it can't

[8:22] have a black background. It's going to

[8:23] like blend into the environment too

[8:24] much. Okay. The reason why you're here

[8:26] tonight, just so you know, those

[8:27] hydrants are owned by the city. So, city

[8:30] council has to give permission, not the

[8:32] fire chief.

[8:32] >> Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. He was like, "This

[8:34] time we got to go to council." So, my

[8:36] apologies. We uh got it approved by the

[8:38] fire department.

[8:39] >> Most people don't understand that.

[8:40] >> Yeah.

[8:41] >> Don't worry about it.

[8:42] >> Um so, yeah, but they did look at a

[8:43] close eye and considered the safety and

[8:45] the appearance of all of them. So, that

[8:47] artist, we were like, "Hey, you have to

[8:48] change your black background to white."

[8:50] Um and it wasn't an issue. Uh, another

[8:52] thing is all the artists do sign a lot

[8:55] of agreements. Things like you have to

[8:58] understand that if something happens to

[9:00] the fire hydrant, it has to be replaced

[9:01] or anything like that's just going to

[9:03] happen. The artwork might not be

[9:04] permanent. Um, if it's an instance like

[9:07] on ferry and sick greaves right now,

[9:09] like it might be damaged. Um, and they

[9:10] all understood that and they understand

[9:12] that it's a thing that needs to be used.

[9:14] Uh, so that that's all laid out very

[9:16] clearly in the in the application. Um,

[9:18] so yeah. Uh, so year one we did 11

[9:22] hydrants. Um, all on

[9:25] Yeah. Oh, okay. So, we did um on East

[9:27] and Fourth Friday, we had all of the

[9:29] artists out at the same time painting

[9:31] the hydrants, so people could walk

[9:32] around and like meet and talk to all the

[9:34] artists. Um, it was super cool. It was

[9:35] the fourth Friday in September. The news

[9:38] actually came and did like a whole piece

[9:39] on it. So, it was really well received

[9:41] by the public and um, everyone was like,

[9:44] "Oh, I wish I knew about this. I would

[9:45] have submitted a design." And so that's

[9:46] why we're hoping to do um a second round

[9:49] for 2026 if approved.

[9:52] Um yeah, so so like I said, we we did a

[9:56] lot of um we we put a lot of thought

[9:58] into making sure that it was safe,

[10:00] making sure that it was okay with the

[10:01] fire department. Um so one of the things

[10:04] that's also listed in the application is

[10:06] like when you're thinking of your

[10:08] design, like try to make sure it has

[10:09] elements of yellow in it so it still has

[10:12] that like fire hydrant feel. um and

[10:15] making sure that people again understand

[10:17] that emergency operations take

[10:18] precedence. And then um we also

[10:22] took we we wanted to make sure that the

[10:25] artists were safe because they're like

[10:27] sitting on the sidewalk uh very close to

[10:29] the street painting the hydrants. So we

[10:30] coordinated with uh John Spedoni and he

[10:33] lended us some traffic cones. So we gave

[10:35] each hydrant artist a traffic cone to

[10:37] put out while they were out there

[10:38] painting. So, basically how it worked is

[10:39] once we approved their designs, uh, they

[10:42] picked up a little art kit at the public

[10:44] market, which was mason jars with all of

[10:46] the paint colors that they applied for

[10:49] and a traffic cone and a bunch of paint

[10:50] brushes and wipes and all that good

[10:52] stuff. Um, another thing about the paint

[10:54] is we actually reached out to the people

[10:56] who did this inas. We were like, what's

[10:58] the best paint for like a fire hydrant?

[10:59] Um, and they gave us this really I

[11:01] forget what it's called now, but this

[11:02] really awesome paint that I mean the

[11:03] fire hydrants, it's been a year now and

[11:05] they have held up like beautifully.

[11:07] there's been no chipping and it's gone

[11:08] through all the snow and rain and all

[11:10] that good stuff. So, I'm I'm very happy

[11:11] about uh the paint that we've used for

[11:13] the hydrants. So, nobody's bringing

[11:14] their own paint, a solid paint that we

[11:16] got. Um yeah.

[11:19] Uh so, I just provided uh along with the

[11:22] slides a sample of the application so

[11:24] you can see like what they're looking at

[11:26] when they apply. This was the

[11:27] application for last year. So, it would

[11:29] be exactly the same this year. The only

[11:30] thing we would change is the dates. Um

[11:32] like you have to be there for the fourth

[11:34] Friday painting event. Um mostly for a

[11:36] photo op. they can still paint like

[11:37] before or after. Um that's just so we

[11:40] have one day where everyone's out there

[11:41] at the same time. Um and then some of

[11:44] the design requirements and emergency

[11:46] operations, things like that. And then

[11:47] yeah, so basically they they fill out

[11:50] the application and then they actually

[11:51] just color it in like a coloring book

[11:53] and we take a look at the design and

[11:55] send it over to the fire department.

[11:58] Um, so planning for 2026. I'm going to

[12:00] leave that to Tony so he can tell you um

[12:03] why we selected the locations that we

[12:04] did that we're hoping to get approved.

[12:08] >> All right. Thank you, Julie. Um, so

[12:10] yeah, we're trying to plan for six more

[12:12] hydrants uh downtown here this year.

[12:14] Again, this is just going to be within

[12:15] the East and Main Street initiative uh

[12:17] downtown district. So that's why it's

[12:19] very limited to, you know, up there by

[12:21] Bushkill um going to the river and then

[12:23] going up to Sixth Street on the west

[12:24] side. So, we selected six locations more

[12:27] so to the north to go kind of like

[12:29] bridge the gap between downtown and

[12:31] Lafayette. We picked one by uh Scott

[12:34] Park there because it's, you know, it's

[12:35] very much frequented for the farmers

[12:36] market on Saturdays and also one at the

[12:39] 400 block of Northampton just to kind of

[12:40] pay homage to, you know, the hotel fire

[12:42] that happened this year. And then the

[12:44] confluence as well um down there by

[12:46] McDonald's.

[12:48] This is just more of a description of of

[12:50] where these locations are. Um, again,

[12:53] the intention that the design committee

[12:54] had with selecting these were to bridge

[12:56] the gap through art between Lafayette

[12:57] College and downtown, give attention to

[12:58] the 400 block of Northampton after the

[13:00] fire and highlight the the riverfront.

[13:03] So, we're really just asking, you know,

[13:04] city council support for these six

[13:06] locations or if there's any comments

[13:08] that council has or if they'd want to

[13:09] see another one somewhere different.

[13:16] » South.

[13:17] >> So, I was going to mention that it's

[13:19] Main Street,

[13:20] >> so they can only do down here, but I so

[13:23] I chair the Southside Spark, which got

[13:25] the MPP grant. So, I'm going to send an

[13:27] email to people on the board and you two

[13:31] tomorrow because there's money there so

[13:34] you guys can meet with them so we can

[13:35] bring that into the Southside and then

[13:37] we'll look at doing that into the West

[13:39] W. Um because I think it looks good

[13:42] downtown and I think the Southside, the

[13:45] West W, College Hill neighborhoods can

[13:47] use some of that as well. I think

[13:48] there's a way we can we can do that. It

[13:50] doesn't I think it's a significant cost.

[13:52] Um, and we can get the artist. So, I'm

[13:54] going to email you two and copy them

[13:56] tonight or tomorrow so we can get a

[13:58] meeting and see how we can get this into

[13:59] the three different neighborhoods.

[14:01] >> Yeah, that'd be fantastic.

[14:02] >> Thank you.

[14:03] >> Yeah, the program costs basically

[14:05] nothing. I think we spent like $500 on

[14:07] paint last year and that was our only

[14:08] cost and we still have a bunch of paint

[14:10] left over. So,

[14:11] >> beautiful. We're going to need that.

[14:12] >> And all the all the artists, I mean,

[14:14] they were volunteer artists. So,

[14:17] >> I think it's a great program. They came

[14:18] out really well and I just being

[14:20] downtown every day I see people stopping

[14:22] taking photos or kids like tracing the

[14:25] designs and it's just a neat little

[14:27] feature. It's something you would

[14:28] normally overlook and it's just a neat

[14:32] pop of color as you walk through

[14:34] downtown.

[14:35] >> Well done.

[14:36] >> Absolutely. Very good. Thank you guys.

[14:38] >> Thank you.

[14:44] » Christian and Officer Crossen.

[14:47] There they are. I couldn't see you. I

[14:49] didn't know where you went to. I knew

[14:50] you were here, but I didn't know where

[14:51] you went.

[14:53] >> They're going to give us an update on

[14:55] the uh and success stories of the recent

[14:57] outcomes of the homeless population.

[15:06] » Hi, Jeff.

[15:07] >> We brought some friends with us, Safe

[15:10] Harbor Stream team.

[15:13] >> Um we just wanted to give you a quick

[15:18] Kristen, I'm sorry. Can you speak in

[15:20] directly into the microphone?

[15:22] >> Sorry.

[15:22] >> Thank you. Much better.

[15:24] >> Um, we just wanted to give a quick

[15:26] update. Um, we've been out there. Um,

[15:28] fortunately, we've had uh some help for

[15:30] officer crossing out there. We've had

[15:32] another officer out on a bike. I think

[15:35] two days out of

[15:38] two or three out of five. He can give

[15:39] more information on that, but we've had

[15:42] um an increase in contacts with people.

[15:44] We've been able to get so far this year

[15:46] 42 people into some level of treatment.

[15:49] >> Now that this year,

[15:52] >> yes, this year, but in full

[15:54] transparency, that number does represent

[15:56] some individuals that were helped to get

[15:58] into treatment multiple times. Um, so

[16:02] that number is out there.

[16:04] We've also had um people that have been

[16:07] arrested for violating the law in the

[16:09] city or violating ordinances. We've had

[16:11] an increase in that also. um addressing

[16:14] the issues uh the quality of life issues

[16:16] that are happening that are being

[16:17] brought uh to our attention. I think

[16:20] there were after this afternoon 67 or 68

[16:25] arrests of individuals um breaking the

[16:27] law and officer crossing can talk more

[16:29] about that if you have questions. Um and

[16:31] of those 42 were individual people. So

[16:34] we have quite a few people that we know

[16:36] are problematic and they're refusing

[16:38] treatment and we're just kind of in this

[16:41] cycle right now. are still trying. Um,

[16:43] but we wanted to really focus today.

[16:45] >> Kristen, I'm sorry. The 4267 whatever we

[16:49] just mentioned, those are confirmed

[16:51] unhoused or are they just people that

[16:53] were familiar with downtown?

[16:54] >> So, those are people we're familiar with

[16:56] downtown that are transient. Most of

[16:58] those folks are coming over from New

[17:00] Jersey during the day.

[17:01] >> Right. Okay.

[17:02] >> That's what we're seeing.

[17:03] >> So, they're not east and unhoused.

[17:05] They're just issues that we're having

[17:07] problems with these people. Right. Okay.

[17:09] All right. Thank you. So, with

[17:10] everything that's been happening locally

[17:12] with different cities and encampments

[17:14] and things like that, we've had an

[17:16] increase in people from out of the area.

[17:19] Um, we've had police departments in New

[17:22] Jersey bringing people here in patrol

[17:25] cars.

[17:25] >> I see now.

[17:27] >> So, we've we've really been trying to

[17:29] stay on top of it. Um, we also received

[17:33] Safe Harbor received a call from an

[17:35] individual who was unhoused in New

[17:37] Jersey and went for supportive services

[17:39] and the shelter there told them that

[17:42] they can help him by giving him a bus

[17:43] ticket to Easton. That was their

[17:45] solution for this man. Um, and he had

[17:48] the wits about him to call Safe Harbor

[17:50] and be like, "Hey, just so you know,

[17:52] every person that is unhoused that comes

[17:54] through this shelter is essentially

[17:56] being told their option is a bus pass to

[17:58] East."

[17:59] Um, so,

[18:01] >> so Chris, we've been hearing this for a

[18:03] couple years.

[18:06] >> Is there a way to combat it? Is there a

[18:08] solution? It's not fair to the people

[18:10] here that need help because we're using

[18:12] our resources and everything to help

[18:14] people that are coming just to take

[18:16] advantage of services. Is there any way

[18:18] between Safe Harbor, police, us? So I

[18:21] what I can say is and they can everybody

[18:23] can chime in on this too because we all

[18:25] kind of have our own ideas and thoughts

[18:27] but um we're working part of the reason

[18:29] for bringing safe harbor today was just

[18:32] um so that everyone can um ask any of us

[18:35] questions because we are working so

[18:36] closely together on these individuals.

[18:38] Um a lot of individuals that are not

[18:40] from here and want to get back to where

[18:42] they came from. We coordinate with Safe

[18:44] Harbor and Safe Harbor has a some

[18:47] funding and we can get people back to

[18:49] where home is for them. We've had quite

[18:51] a few people like released from prison

[18:53] that aren't necessarily from Eastn, but

[18:55] the prison's here, so they're here. Um,

[18:58] and Safe Harbor has been incredible

[19:00] helping us find placement for people.

[19:02] Um, and if we call them and say, "Hey,

[19:05] we have an individual that needs support

[19:07] that is from East and needs the

[19:09] resources," they are they're going to

[19:11] make it happen. They're I mean

[19:13] incredible with that. So I don't know if

[19:16] anybody else

[19:16] >> Chris just a quick question. One of my

[19:18] staff brought it to my attention that uh

[19:21] Philsburg and even down to Warren County

[19:24] don't have a place that can save her.

[19:26] >> They do not

[19:27] >> and that then what you just said was

[19:28] absolutely what you told me that they

[19:31] just sent them over there.

[19:34] >> Newton, New Jersey.

[19:35] >> Yeah. We had

[19:36] >> Newton New Jersey. [clears throat]

[19:37] the people that called them said

[19:40] [snorts] Newton stopped somebody Newton

[19:42] New Jersey which is an hour away

[19:44] >> hour and a half uh stopped this guy told

[19:47] him

[19:49] if you want services you can go to

[19:51] Easton and then two other places in New

[19:53] Jersey

[19:54] >> but we were one of the options he gave

[19:56] us the bus pass two here basically

[19:59] because they're the draw so

[20:01] >> we did call him back and speak with them

[20:03] he had no reason to call us they had no

[20:05] reason to call them either we don't know

[20:06] them we never dealt with him because I

[20:08] just want you guys to know that this is

[20:09] happening and it's happening a lot. So,

[20:12] the only thing we can really do to

[20:14] combat it is just stay on top of it

[20:16] really just by being out there all the

[20:18] time and knowing everybody. That's why I

[20:20] have the relationship with Jeff and

[20:22] Sarah is that we talk to each other all

[20:23] the time when they see new people coming

[20:25] in out of nowhere. We communicate it.

[20:27] So, it's a lot easier to know the faces

[20:30] and then you guys agree that there's an

[20:32] uptake out.

[20:36] » Go ahead, sir.

[20:37] >> I just also want to be clear. So, as far

[20:39] as we go, um, at Safe Harbor, when we

[20:43] uh, intake someone to our shelter, um,

[20:46] female referrals go through myself, male

[20:48] referrals go through Jeff. We've both

[20:50] got over a decade of experience in Safe

[20:54] Harbor, um, and the work that we're

[20:56] doing. So, we do a specific interview to

[20:58] get certain background information about

[21:00] the individual that is referred to us

[21:02] and part of that interview is kind of

[21:07] determining where that individual is

[21:08] coming from and where their roots are.

[21:11] We do prioritize Eastern or Northampton

[21:13] County residents at Safe Harbor. So, um,

[21:17] if someone is referred to us either from

[21:20] Kristen and Officer Crossen, um, or if

[21:22] they're just a walk-in, we are usually

[21:25] asking, "Hey, where were you last?" And

[21:28] one of the questions that we always ask

[21:30] is, "Do you have family support system,

[21:33] housing of any kind in any place other

[21:35] than here?" Um and that is because not

[21:38] only are we trying to reduce the burden

[21:41] locally, right, for individuals who

[21:43] might be unhoused, but also because if

[21:45] that individual has already established

[21:47] a support network or services elsewhere,

[21:50] it is much more simple and

[21:52] cost-effective to relocate that

[21:54] individual to where they have supports

[21:57] rather than to try to reopen and

[21:58] reestablish them in a whole new area

[22:00] being east and north county. Right? So

[22:03] that is something that on our end on the

[22:05] shelter side is being done. Um the other

[22:07] thing that we've done is we identified a

[22:09] need several years ago um which has been

[22:11] aided by both Chris and Officer Crossen

[22:14] and then um the new officer who's

[22:15] working as well. He

[22:18] uh well officer Crossson at one point

[22:20] had kind of talked to us about the fact

[22:22] that we do end up with folks who tend to

[22:24] kind of end up stranded in East End. And

[22:27] so one of the things that we've done at

[22:28] Safe Harbor is secured grant funding for

[22:30] emergency um transportation assistance.

[22:33] So if anyone from EPD comes across an

[22:36] individual who does have those supports

[22:38] in another area, Safe Harbor is able to

[22:40] step in and provide that assistance to

[22:42] get the individual back where they

[22:44] already have established supports or

[22:45] family who are willing to provide

[22:46] housing.

[22:48] >> I hope that helps.

[22:49] >> So it does. Well, not really to my

[22:53] question.

[22:53] >> Sure. But I think everybody here knows

[22:55] and and whoever knows the four of you

[22:57] know you guys are doing an amazing job.

[23:00] My question more along the lines of how

[23:03] can we be more preventative? I don't

[23:05] know from our solicitor if if we find

[23:08] because we've had the mayor, we've had

[23:09] police officers witness uh uh Betham

[23:13] people get dropped off here from Betham,

[23:15] New York, New Jersey, whatever. A way to find them if we have proof. Reason

[23:20] being, you guys are doing great, but

[23:21] there's only four of you. the more

[23:23] people that keep coming, you're not

[23:24] going to be able to keep up with it,

[23:25] right? And and we can't raise taxes on

[23:27] residents and and on struggling families

[23:29] here to help support people that aren't

[23:32] from here. So, there's there's got to be

[23:34] some type of way we can be proactive. I

[23:36] mean, you guys are doing a great job

[23:37] with what you're doing, but how much

[23:39] more can you really take on in the city,

[23:42] right? I mean, you know, we talked

[23:44] yesterday. I met mayor with the

[23:45] residents from the senior house across

[23:47] from uh

[23:49] >> so our police are doing a great job

[23:50] monitoring the circle in downtown but

[23:52] now they're going over there.

[23:53] >> We had a woman that was defecating on

[23:55] the tree uh uh in the back in the

[23:57] courtyard. They're smoking drugs.

[23:59] They're doing this or doing that.

[24:00] >> She was housed. She was the housed

[24:02] individual and we got her treatment

[24:04] yesterday. She is in treatment at

[24:06] >> She

[24:08] around 1:00.

[24:08] >> Right. So, but but the point is there's

[24:11] so many more people coming.

[24:12] >> Yeah. We can't, you know what I mean? We

[24:15] can't keep up with it and we can't tax

[24:18] residents and put the burden on eastern

[24:20] people to help people from other other

[24:22] places because their municipalities

[24:24] don't want to deal with it. So, there's

[24:25] got to be a way that we could be

[24:26] preventative or penalize these

[24:28] municipalities when we catch them

[24:30] dropping their people off.

[24:31] >> So, we have found Officer Cross and

[24:34] myself, um, like three years ago,

[24:36] everyone knows when we kind of started

[24:37] this, we were really trying to piece it

[24:39] together and figure out what's going to

[24:40] work and what's not going to work. And

[24:42] what we found is that the sooner we

[24:44] identify someone as kind of being

[24:46] transient through the city, not really

[24:49] kind of just an out ofplace situation or

[24:51] being unhoused or when Safe Harbor

[24:53] identifies someone, we're making contact

[24:56] as quickly as possible and as frequently

[24:58] as possible. The reason being, for

[25:00] instance, we had a woman um kind of way

[25:04] out there and her son was caring for

[25:06] her. She had mobility issues.

[25:09] Talk to her. She's on the street

[25:10] sleeping outside. what's going on? Oh,

[25:13] well, I was evicted in New Jersey. I

[25:14] have services in New Jersey. I maxed out

[25:17] from this service in New Jersey. So,

[25:18] they told me to go to Pennsylvania. And

[25:20] I said, "The best thing you can do for

[25:22] yourself is go back to New Jersey where

[25:25] you have benefits established because to

[25:28] restart that process here is a is a

[25:30] whole big can of worms." And she

[25:32] listened to that. So, that's kind of

[25:34] been the way we've been. Now, sometimes

[25:36] it works, sometimes it doesn't, but

[25:38] that's kind of what we've been doing to

[25:39] try and keep up with it is getting

[25:41] people back to where they were last

[25:43] established or where they have supports.

[25:46] Um, there were

[25:48] quite a few I mean, just in I would say

[25:51] this year we probably had 10 people that

[25:54] weren't from this area and just kind of

[25:55] landed here. Um, that we with Safe

[25:58] Harbor have been able to get back to

[26:01] where they have supports and resources.

[26:04] Um, but as far as

[26:06] >> just forget it, I don't do it. Just what

[26:08] we were talking about before, they had

[26:10] received the money. We just had this

[26:12] happen. I didn't get to tell you guys,

[26:15] one

[26:18] >> and there was another guy we got. We

[26:19] found he was thrown out of the prison

[26:21] yet was ever released from the prison.

[26:25] Was stuck here. We worked with Safe

[26:28] Harbor to get him a bus ticket out to

[26:30] State College. Right. For whatever

[26:31] reason, he had to go back to State

[26:33] College. They received the funding for

[26:35] it, bought the bus ticket. We went down,

[26:37] picked him up, brought him to the

[26:38] terminal, put him on the bus, out he

[26:40] went.

[26:41] 15 minutes before this meeting started,

[26:43] I saw him at Second in Northampton.

[26:45] >> Oh,

[26:46] >> that's my point.

[26:46] >> Yeah, that was my next question. Are you

[26:48] seeing these people coming back?

[26:50] >> They do come back.

[26:51] >> You you can just that it's just the

[26:52] hustle of just continuously

[26:55] monitoring because literally I just

[26:57] drove by them. I'm like, what are you

[26:58] doing back?

[26:59] >> But my question is and I know our

[27:00] solicitor has something to say. They

[27:03] come out of North Hampton County Prison,

[27:04] they have nowhere to go. I I get that.

[27:06] Or people that are just traveling. I get

[27:07] that. My biggest concern is

[27:10] >> other police departments and things

[27:12] dropping them off here. That's what I'm

[27:13] talking about combating.

[27:14] >> Been going on for so long.

[27:16] >> That's the thing. Everybody knows in

[27:18] Warren County that we have safe.

[27:20] >> Exactly.

[27:21] >> Right. They know it exists. So the

[27:22] easiest thing they can say is, "Hey

[27:24] boss, I'm going to take them over to

[27:25] safe harbor." They don't care that they

[27:26] don't have a bed. They don't

[27:28] >> They just do it and they drop them off

[27:29] in the cover of night and they take off.

[27:32] So I it's been going on for as long I've

[27:34] been here 16 years going long as I've

[27:36] been here.

[27:36] >> So my question is do we have any

[27:37] leverage when we catch those.

[27:39] >> So legally I don't know how much

[27:42] leverage the city has because people

[27:44] have a right to travel. Now legally is

[27:47] different than politically and public

[27:49] relations and the one thing we need is

[27:52] data and information and there are going

[27:55] to be groups and organizations in this

[27:57] area say some people in those areas

[27:59] might be glad they might say fine ship

[28:01] them out of here make them not our

[28:03] problem but there are going to be other

[28:04] people who do recognize that that's a

[28:06] horrible thing to do some is take them

[28:08] away from where their roots are just

[28:11] because of their living circumstances

[28:13] and send them an hour two hour 2 hours

[28:15] by car, an hour by car, that's a

[28:18] lifetime by foot.

[28:19] >> So I think that's where gathering the

[28:21] data to get that information and there

[28:24] are levers. There is pressure that can

[28:26] be put, but it's more in the political

[28:28] and public relations arena directly than

[28:31] illegal. Now there may be issues with

[28:32] regard to civil rights that are being

[28:34] violated depending on what kind of

[28:35] pressure is being put on people, but

[28:37] that would be an issue for them those

[28:39] people who don't always have the

[28:41] resources to take up. There also may be

[28:43] something specifically that can be done

[28:45] to integrate between the city to

[28:46] communicate between the city and the

[28:47] county with regards specifically to

[28:51] there's probably there is probably some

[28:53] room to work with the county

[28:54] specifically on the issues of when

[28:56] people are being discharged. Like when

[28:58] someone maxes out there's there's

[28:59] nothing you can do. If they're maxed

[29:00] out, they're maxed out. But there has to

[29:03] be a way to coordinate that with with

[29:05] the prison so you're not dumping

[29:07] somebody who's not from Easton out on

[29:09] the street at 2 in the morning from

[29:11] Northampton County Prison.

[29:12] >> That would be huge. That's

[29:13] >> I mean I'm sure there's got to be some

[29:15] kind of coordination that can be

[29:16] accomplished uh with the county.

[29:19] >> Um I can reach out to um I can reach out

[29:23] at least to the county. I can talk to

[29:25] people at the county and see what the ability to coordinate with the

[29:28] city on that specific issue is. But as

[29:31] far as the the other issue, it's really

[29:33] going to lie more in the political and

[29:35] public relations realm. But I think to

[29:36] get there, we need the data. We need to

[29:38] know where these what which

[29:40] municipalities are doing this. Where is

[29:42] it coming from? And get hard so we can

[29:45] say no, this is these are the eight

[29:47] people in the last six months that were

[29:49] dropped off here from your municipality,

[29:51] by your police department, or were

[29:53] directed here by this shelter that's

[29:55] getting funding from you. Like I think

[29:57] that's what we need is the information.

[29:59] And I and just to thank you very much,

[30:01] Mike. Just to be clear, you know, when

[30:03] people just when life brings them here,

[30:05] >> we I think we do an amazing job

[30:07] providing and trying to find resources

[30:09] for them. My concern is to your point,

[30:12] you know, there was one of our officers

[30:14] witnessed a locally municipal local

[30:16] municipality in a police car drop their

[30:18] people off in the circle. And when our

[30:20] police officer asked him what's going

[30:21] on, he said, "I have no idea. They

[30:23] picked me up here and said and threw me

[30:25] in the car and they just dropped me off

[30:27] here." that's that's a violation for

[30:29] them and for us and and you know we need

[30:32] to be able to do something

[30:33] >> and that's also something where it's the

[30:36] same thing where if it's within

[30:37] Northampton County there's there may be

[30:39] some benefit to tracking that

[30:42] information and trying to interface with

[30:44] the county

[30:45] >> to turn around and maybe put some

[30:47] downward pressure on the other

[30:48] municipalities to be like look this is

[30:50] not how the county is supposed to

[30:52] function we're not just pushing

[30:54] >> pushing east is a great place to

[30:57] But it doesn't mean that you should be

[30:59] dumping people here.

[31:00] >> Absolutely. So,

[31:01] >> so I'm going to send an email tonight to

[31:03] our county executive and the mayor and

[31:06] scowls or whatever and we'll all get

[31:08] together and I'll get some council

[31:09] members and we'll talk about how we can

[31:11] work better on that and I'll get you you

[31:13] two involved as well. We just have to

[31:14] sit down and find out how we can

[31:16] >> do better. It might be beneficial to

[31:18] loop in like not just the county but the

[31:21] court system because the individual that

[31:23] came back from State College. He came

[31:25] back because he had a court hearing and

[31:27] he didn't want to get a warrant. And two

[31:29] weeks ago we had another guy that got a

[31:31] warrant in Pittsburgh, he came back here

[31:33] stranded, nowhere to go, but he had to

[31:35] stay in the area

[31:37] >> because he had another hearing in a

[31:38] month. So he's trying to get his life in

[31:41] order, but like

[31:43] >> his services are in Pittsburgh. So,

[31:45] >> who's the who's the president judge now?

[31:47] >> It's still Craig Dailyy.

[31:49] >> Okay.

[31:49] >> Um,

[31:50] >> I'm not sure if we can streamline that

[31:51] in any way.

[31:53] >> Office in the email.

[31:56] >> Just thinking the bus station right

[31:59] below us. I think a lot of them are

[32:01] coming in on the buses. If they're

[32:02] coming in from Morristown, New Jersey or

[32:04] Essex County, they're not just being

[32:06] dropped off. They're coming buses. a way

[32:09] to kind of capt.

[32:17] » They're getting dropped off here too,

[32:18] Jeff, because I saw the state New Jersey

[32:21] state police officer drop them off right

[32:23] downstairs.

[32:25] >> Just come right to safe harbor and drop

[32:27] them off.

[32:28] >> That's crazy. I mean, not just for us,

[32:30] but total disregard for them. And

[32:33] >> and it's one thing if a person says,

[32:35] "I'm from East." Yeah. And now you're

[32:37] doing them a favor by giving them a ride

[32:38] home. But it's another thing to drop

[32:40] somebody

[32:41] >> hours away from where

[32:44] >> New Jersey residines

[32:51] » insurance. So,

[32:53] >> well, and I think we should we need to

[32:54] be clear. They're not dropping them off

[32:56] because they want to get them help. They

[32:58] just don't want to deal with it. And

[33:00] they know we can help, but it's out of

[33:02] their hair. So, and it's just terrible

[33:03] for what they're doing to the people.

[33:04] >> And I think lately it's been um a lot

[33:07] less from PA local communities. I don't

[33:11] know what you guys are seeing, but as

[33:12] far as what Officer Carson and I are

[33:13] seeing, it's been a lot less um it's

[33:16] been slowing down, if you will, from

[33:18] kind of the rest of Northampton County.

[33:20] Um, Officer Crossson and I are working

[33:22] with the Northampton County um, crisis

[33:26] intervention team and we are attending

[33:28] um, month it's monthly meetings with the

[33:31] county um, and other police departments

[33:32] and we're all kind of at the table

[33:35] talking about these things. So, since we

[33:37] started doing that, we're getting phone

[33:39] calls from other departments saying,

[33:41] "Hey, we have this issue. Normally, we

[33:43] would just drop them off at Safe Harbor,

[33:45] but how would you how can we help this

[33:47] person?" I've gotten in the last month

[33:50] I've gotten two calls just from one

[33:53] department. So those conversations are

[33:55] happening. So I think we're doing

[33:57] everything we can to try and move that

[33:59] in the right direction. But the biggest

[34:01] struggle for us because it if somebody

[34:02] comes here from Bethlehem and wants

[34:04] help, I can get them help. That is not a

[34:06] big deal. It is what it is, right? But

[34:08] if somebody is here from Essex, New

[34:11] Jersey, they can't get drug and alcohol

[34:14] treatment in Pennsylvania. They can't

[34:16] get mental health treatment. Well, they

[34:17] can if it's emergent only if it's a

[34:22] life or death situation and that's where we're we're really

[34:26] struggling and we can't get them on the

[34:28] road to creating better life for

[34:30] themselves.

[34:32] >> But even even Bethtown, I appreciate you

[34:34] helping them, but when Beth Mantown

[34:37] closed their camps, they know where

[34:38] they're going. Well, send us a check,

[34:40] pay for an extra position, help us help

[34:43] the people, right? you're taking the

[34:45] burden off of your municipalities,

[34:46] putting it on us, and you're not you're

[34:48] not making a phone call. You're not

[34:49] offering any assistance. It's not fair

[34:51] to the people or for or for anybody.

[34:55] >> So, I have a question. Um

[34:58] irrespective of the bad actors who are

[35:00] dropping people off in East. Um, it

[35:03] appears also that just the homeless are

[35:06] gravitating towards Eastston. And my

[35:09] understanding uh from being on the board

[35:12] of Safe Harbor is that Safe Harbor has

[35:14] finite resources. They do a fantastic

[35:16] job, but they have a finite number of

[35:18] beds. Uh, their warming uh center in the

[35:22] winter is uh they can only allow a

[35:25] finite number of people to stay there.

[35:27] They do have free lunches. Um and so

[35:30] that's um terrific for people who need

[35:34] that resource. So my question is I'm I

[35:39] understand there are ad hoc

[35:41] activities going on in the community

[35:44] unrelated to safe harbor that serve the

[35:47] homeless. Are they attracting people

[35:51] from outside of east? Is does Eastston

[35:54] have the reputation of somewhere where

[35:56] you can get clothing, bedding, sleeping

[36:00] bags, tents, and so on?

[36:03] >> Yeah,

[36:03] >> without without a doubt. It's definitely

[36:06] we've seen an uptick since that

[36:07] situation began.

[36:10] >> See, that's that's something the city

[36:12] needs to consider. like I don't want to

[36:15] interfere in any way with any community

[36:17] organization that's trying to help, but

[36:20] if they're actually turning into a

[36:22] magnet for people from out of town to

[36:24] come in, then that's that's an issue the

[36:26] city should probably address.

[36:28] >> Some specific groups try to push them

[36:30] down towards safe so they can still do

[36:33] their same thing they're doing but in an

[36:35] environment that's controlled and

[36:37] they're used to handling the amount of

[36:39] people and they have bathrooms and they

[36:40] have things like that. So,

[36:44] Councilwoman,

[36:46] >> also, you know, they require people who

[36:48] are are going to be staying there to

[36:51] abide by their rules. So, there's no

[36:52] drug and alcohol and so on. So, um you

[36:56] know, again,

[36:58] how come people are just coming to

[37:00] Easton when, you know, it's not an easy

[37:03] road to to to be in Easton if if there's

[37:07] not enough beds at Safe Harbor. you have

[37:10] to you have to go through their

[37:11] coursework and so on. [clears throat]

[37:13] >> If we know who's doing the ad hoc

[37:16] >> operations, we can send codes down there

[37:18] because I remember very vividly how Safe

[37:21] Harbor started because I started Safe

[37:22] Harbor. It was uh who was the priest up

[37:26] at Lafia College. Father,

[37:29] >> oh my god, I can't remember his name.

[37:31] >> No, none of us were here when you

[37:32] started. I know you

[37:33] >> I know that. But but you know,

[37:37] we started it

[37:39] at a time when we didn't know what

[37:42] homeless was or unhoused. We we didn't

[37:44] we had no idea what it was because we

[37:45] never experienced it. But we started it

[37:49] the night that we gave the the

[37:50] million-dollar loan to the state

[37:52] theaters. Everybody said, "Why are you

[37:54] giving it to all the rich people? The

[37:55] only rich people could go to state

[37:56] theater." So, we did the safe harbor

[37:58] same night and it got approved. But

[38:01] I think what was his name? Well, anyway,

[38:05] f whatever his father's name was. Um, he

[38:08] was having a press conference at the

[38:11] circle blasting me because I was helping

[38:15] I was here. They shut down the code team

[38:17] shut down all the ad hoc operations. We

[38:20] were putting the homeless in church

[38:22] halls and the parents were getting mad

[38:24] because their kids were eating dinner or

[38:26] lunch in that same room that the people

[38:29] were sleeping in at night. So he was

[38:32] having Father Hagen. Is that right?

[38:35] Father Hagen sounds. Yes. Close to that.

[38:38] And um and he was having a press

[38:40] conference against me and blasting me

[38:43] for shutting down all the the ad hoc

[38:46] groups. So if we know who they are, we

[38:48] could send our code team down because

[38:49] I'm sure they're not up to code.

[38:51] >> I I think they have already been

[38:53] involved with this the one group that we

[38:56] know to be problematic. Just for clarity

[38:59] for for the public and watching for

[39:00] councilwoman you're talking about just

[39:03] some of the local people that are coming

[39:04] together to do this not our churches and

[39:05] things that

[39:06] >> not the churches

[39:07] >> right right okay just the individuals

[39:09] >> right it like individuals who are on

[39:10] Facebook and so on

[39:12] >> they tend to be a problem for us

[39:14] >> you know that's

[39:17] we don't want

[39:19] our city to be a magnet uh for the

[39:22] homeless we want to be able to serve our

[39:23] homeless population our indigent

[39:26] homeless population.

[39:28] Um, so I don't know, you know, that's

[39:30] it's a bit of a difficult question

[39:32] because I could see the public being up

[39:34] in arms if we are like disassembling

[39:36] those activities.

[39:38] Um, I

[39:39] >> I think people need to to realize

[39:42] >> we have a lot of great people in the

[39:43] community that want to donate tents and

[39:45] everything else. The problem is when when we cleaned out the Elm Street

[39:50] area, they they already left. We didn't

[39:52] clean them out. We just cleaned

[39:53] leftovers.

[39:55] You guys still have the pictures. I

[39:56] think I might have them.

[39:59] >> Thousands of of things, brand new, price

[40:02] tags on them, t never opened before. So,

[40:04] these people need to understand they're

[40:06] helping. We We appreciate them trying to

[40:08] help, but they're buying all these

[40:10] things and giving it to people that have

[40:12] nowhere to put it and it's all just

[40:14] being discarded.

[40:15] >> I mean, the majority of the dumpsters

[40:16] you guys filled were brand new clothing

[40:19] and tents and shoes and crisp, so

[40:22] they're not even really getting

[40:23] utilized, right? So all these people are

[40:25] collecting and g and they're not being

[40:26] utilized. They're being thrown away.

[40:28] Not, you know, the people are doing what

[40:30] their heart tells them to do, which we

[40:32] appreciate. And the people that are

[40:33] taking them want them, but they have

[40:34] nowhere to put them. You know, when they

[40:36] go to the group, Safe Harbor, Shiloh, UC

[40:38] Project, they're documenting these

[40:41] people. They get licensed, you know, ID

[40:43] where they're from. So, I mean, that's

[40:44] where I try to direct people to help

[40:47] them, volunteer with them, give them

[40:49] stuff,

[40:50] >> you know, but so, you know, I think once

[40:52] people realize that a lot of their

[40:53] donations are being discarded, it might

[40:56] help them to start going to Safe Harbor

[40:58] and Project East and Third Street

[40:59] Alliance more. I think we just have to

[41:01] communicate that.

[41:02] >> I mean, that's what we try to say

[41:04] whenever someone reaches out to us with

[41:07] donations.

[41:08] I even had what two boxes of donations

[41:11] in my office um that I just brought to

[41:13] Third Street Alliance like last week

[41:14] that

[41:16] I don't I think some of the officers

[41:18] brought stuff in, but I mean we're

[41:20] trying to make sure that people know

[41:22] that their donations are appreciated and

[41:25] there are certainly people that need

[41:26] them, but we want to make sure they're

[41:28] funneled to the people that need them

[41:30] and can use them right in the moment.

[41:34] I think if I can just state something, I

[41:37] mean, I certainly don't want to um I

[41:40] think there's a lot of hearts in the

[41:41] right places, right? But what Jeff and I

[41:44] have found and and our our peers at at

[41:46] Third Street and Project and all of the

[41:48] wonderful organizations that are

[41:50] established here in Easton is that

[41:53] services need to be offered alongside

[41:56] support. There has to be some level of

[41:59] like that client having the personal

[42:01] accountability to at least like

[42:04] want to

[42:06] further their circumstances and a lot of

[42:09] the times that requires some help. That

[42:11] requires us building rapport and you

[42:13] know

[42:13] >> Yeah. Uh but but services need to be

[42:17] offered alongside support. Um not just

[42:20] kind of like a blank check that doesn't

[42:21] do anyone any good. And I think the

[42:23] thing that's really difficult when we

[42:25] get into helping fields is there's a

[42:26] very thin line between uh helping and

[42:31] enabling. And that is the line that Jeff

[42:33] and I I mean we struggle with that every

[42:35] day. Um and it's something that takes

[42:38] like a lot of time to develop. But

[42:40] that's I think where we can focus as as

[42:42] a community is just making sure that the

[42:44] services that we're offering are are

[42:46] really helping people move forward and

[42:48] not just kind of enabling folks to be

[42:49] comfortable in circumstances that really

[42:51] aren't serving them either.

[42:55] >> I mean I don't have any solutions to how

[42:57] to I mean other than shutting down ad

[43:00] hoc organizations you know or people

[43:04] does anybody

[43:06] I mean it's it's a tough one. How how

[43:09] much does it distract from like what you

[43:11] do or how many how many people let's say

[43:14] do you think are coming to Eastston for

[43:17] because of the ad hoc um services?

[43:22] >> I can't speak to that. I don't think

[43:24] it's it's overly and I mean we we kind

[43:26] of focus on our own operations.

[43:29] >> What we're seeing is the

[43:31] we're getting a lot of people during the

[43:33] day in the city that

[43:35] >> are from New Jersey and somewhere in New

[43:38] Jersey wheal

[43:52] or the drug and alcohol or you know

[43:54] whatever family problems or underlying

[43:56] issues there are

[43:58] >> can't stop that.

[44:00] >> That that's that's very true. One of the

[44:01] things I was just thinking about for

[44:03] lack of a better word in their community

[44:07] they work on word by mouth and I can

[44:11] almost guarantee you that that word by

[44:13] mouth is reaching Jersey

[44:15] >> and reaching back and that's a hard

[44:18] avenue to try to combat because we're

[44:21] not involved with that communication.

[44:24] >> Yeah. It seems like the only way you

[44:25] could really, you know, let's say

[44:27] control or regulate or shut down, you

[44:30] know, um these organizations that

[44:33] potentially are enabling homelessness

[44:37] um is if we had uh

[44:41] like an unlimited amount of beds that we

[44:45] could offer, right? But with in the

[44:47] absence of that,

[44:50] there's not really a lot that we could

[44:51] do.

[44:56] I think that's enough to satisfy

[45:02] one other point. the two of them.

[45:06] We did get two

[45:10] longer tenur people that have been here

[45:13] for years

[45:16] and one's been here since I started at

[45:19] >> well over 10 years ago

[45:33] team of

[45:37] and he's instrumental. Whenever we got a

[45:39] problem down, he is down there.

[45:56] But I really wanted to make sure that we

[45:57] were able to highlight um as Jeff said,

[46:01] people that have been here for a long

[46:03] time and um maybe resisted support,

[46:06] maybe resisted um our help initially, we

[46:09] took the time. Um the one individual

[46:12] that he mentioned that was here for six

[46:14] years, I can tell you that he probably

[46:17] had daily contact with

[46:20] both of them. And

[46:24] every shift that Jeff works, I'm sure

[46:25] he's had contact with that individual.

[46:27] And at every step, every contact, it was

[46:30] building that relationship, building

[46:32] that trust, helping that person. Um that

[46:34] individual was a veteran and he is now

[46:37] connected to services. I actually spoke

[46:38] with the facility today and he is

[46:41] acclimating well. He um has a long road

[46:44] ahead of him, but he is finally um

[46:48] sleeping under cover of a roof and and

[46:50] not a tent. Um and we actually were

[46:53] talking about the veteran population. I

[46:55] didn't share this with you guys yet, but

[46:57] um just looking back this year, we've

[47:01] been three for three with identified

[47:02] veterans that will accept our help and

[47:05] getting them support. and we've been

[47:07] able to do it really quickly. So,

[47:10] when people are ready to accept help, we can get it for them. Um, we have a a

[47:15] really strong network and the same with

[47:17] treatment providers. We have a strong

[47:18] network um within the drug and alcohol

[47:22] um treatment world and we're able to get

[47:24] people the help when they're ready for

[47:25] it. Um it's just kind of being patient

[47:27] and being there for them until they're

[47:29] ready. Um, so when we're trying to help

[47:32] people, you know, get ready for that,

[47:35] it's incredibly helpful to not have

[47:38] >> them being enabled

[47:41] to continue the path that they're on.

[47:42] >> Well, we think you're doing a great job,

[47:44] all four of you, and the new guy.

[47:46] >> Um, I'm a name Web.

[47:49] >> Web, Officer Web, calling him a while a

[47:53] while,

[47:54] >> but but he

[47:55] >> he's not one of the new guys I swear in.

[47:56] He's been here for a while.

[47:58] >> 15 years.

[47:59] Yeah,

[48:01] >> we're trying we're trying to get him him out a bit

[48:04] more, but um we have a lot of people

[48:07] that we have been able to help. Um I

[48:10] mentioned 42 earlier. There are people

[48:12] that are not included in those numbers.

[48:14] are just individuals that

[48:16] officer Crossen and I have had contact

[48:17] with and have specifically referred to a

[48:20] program. They don't account for every

[48:23] individual that Safe Harbor has helped,

[48:25] including the two that they sent back

[48:27] this week. We didn't have any contact

[48:28] with them. Safe Harbor took care of them

[48:31] before it became an issue where police

[48:33] were notified.

[48:35] So, I think it's definitely a team

[48:37] effort. I think we're doing everything

[48:39] we can um to move move the needle and help people. Um and I have to be

[48:45] honest. I mean, it's we're we're having

[48:47] a lot of success. Um so,

[48:51] >> well, we hear good things. I hear good

[48:53] things. And that's unusual

[48:56] >> because when I was here in the 80s, I

[48:57] didn't hear good things about our police

[48:59] department, but I'm hearing good things

[49:00] about all of our police officers, not

[49:02] just officer cross.

[49:04] >> Could you before you end, can you give

[49:05] us a quick update safe harbor on the

[49:08] transitional housing on Ferry Street,

[49:09] the new church that we last year last

[49:13] year?

[49:13] >> Sure. Um, so we had uh our first round

[49:17] move into that project in August of last

[49:20] year. So we're coming up on our our

[49:21] first year. Um we have two individuals

[49:23] who are going to be moving on two that

[49:25] are uh two units that are staying for an

[49:28] additional year and we're bringing two

[49:30] new individuals in. In that first round

[49:33] we had five of our shelter residents

[49:36] because we had a couple of uh roommate

[49:37] pairs. Um as well as a single mother and

[49:40] child from our day program. Um and then

[49:43] this round we have two individuals that

[49:45] are moving in. One also uh will have

[49:47] visitation with their child in the

[49:49] apartment that they could not prior

[49:50] which is really really awesome. Um, so

[49:52] yeah, everything's going very well. Uh,

[49:54] we're very grateful for the support of

[49:56] Mark um, Hammerstone. He's been

[49:58] fantastic. Um, so we have a good working

[50:00] relationship with him and of course Mike

[50:02] and Kelly who kind of had us up to that

[50:04] point when Mark stepped in. Um, but

[50:06] yeah, no, we're very grateful.

[50:11] » It's just a resource we didn't have.

[50:13] >> Y,

[50:16] >> great work.

[50:20] » Thank you.

[50:21] Hey, Crossson, by the way, you're really

[50:23] moving on that bike. Um, have you

[50:25] thought about joining the race that we

[50:27] have here? [laughter]

[50:28] >> I have thought about it. I know.

[50:30] >> Yeah, Julie, if you and Crystal can get

[50:32] him connected.

[50:34] >> Is that the electric bike? [laughter]

[50:36] >> Yeah, but he's

[50:38] >> That's the electric bike.

[50:40] >> I don't bl [laughter]

[50:43] >> see you later. Okay, we have nine items

[50:47] on the committee discussions and we're

[50:49] going to try to get through them all

[50:51] rather quickly. Uh let's start with

[50:53] vendor fees since Dwayne and Darren are

[50:55] here.

[50:57] >> No, we're not here for that.

[50:58] >> Oh, you're here for parking permits.

[51:00] >> Let me let me jump Let me jump in. I I

[51:02] unless councilwoman Rose has an update.

[51:05] Um we're not I don't I don't think we're

[51:08] prepared. We're still we're still

[51:09] drafting

[51:10] >> vendor fees

[51:11] >> vendor fee policy. Yeah,

[51:13] >> that's correct. Um

[51:15] Councilwoman Zando Dennis and I just met

[51:17] with um John and Mark and um our

[51:20] solicitor and I think we're we're going

[51:24] in the right direction, but expect to

[51:26] see a new draft soon.

[51:28] >> Okay. The only thing I would recommend

[51:30] is that we do it as quickly as possible

[51:32] because we do have some big events

[51:34] coming up between Clam Jam, Garlic Fest,

[51:38] and Bacon Fest. There are three biggest.

[51:40] >> It may not It may not occur. It takes

[51:42] two months to get an ordinance through.

[51:44] >> I realize that, but it's budgetary, so

[51:47] it doesn't take it becomes effective

[51:49] immediately.

[51:51] >> You're right. [laughter]

[51:53] >> Okay. Board of Health denials.

[51:55] >> Thank you, Mayor.

[51:57] Uh Jared or or Vargo, I don't know who

[52:00] wants to.

[52:03] >> All right. There we go.

[52:04] >> So, um and this is

[52:05] >> Jared's here for moral support. Man,

[52:07] you're hurting. [laughter]

[52:10] >> So, I think The issue is that the

[52:14] ordinance as currently written

[52:15] specifically prevents the board from

[52:17] issuing any kind of written decision. So

[52:19] there's no real way to know and Jared

[52:22] can correct me if I'm wrong here why

[52:23] each specific member voted against a

[52:26] particular permit. But I think the board

[52:28] could do a better job of publicizing the

[52:32] actual some of the criteria that the

[52:35] board members are looking at. And some

[52:37] of the things that have to be considered

[52:39] are the availability, how often the

[52:42] person requesting the permit actually

[52:44] has to leave the house. Uh what is the

[52:47] availability of parking generally on the

[52:49] street? In other words, is it a street

[52:50] there's generally open parking? Well,

[52:52] then maybe a designated spot isn't

[52:54] necessary. If the person is not

[52:56] themselves required to leave

[52:58] particularly often because they have

[52:59] other support in the home. In other

[53:01] words, if someone else can and the

[53:02] that's the other thing is what resources

[53:04] do they have in the home to help? If

[53:05] there's someone else who can drive and

[53:07] can drop them off at the front door and

[53:08] then go park, it's less necessary. Uh

[53:11] physical aspects like the number of

[53:14] steps, both the distance from the curb

[53:18] to the street as well as the literal

[53:20] number of steps.

[53:21] >> Um there are some parts of Easton that

[53:23] are hillier than others. There are some

[53:25] houses that sit up higher than others.

[53:27] Uh from my understanding, those are are

[53:29] just some of the types of factors that

[53:31] go into each decision. But because each

[53:34] decision is so individualized and

[53:35] because each commissioner could have a

[53:37] different reason for deciding, there's

[53:39] no real one way to to say why an

[53:42] application may succeed or fail. But I

[53:44] think a better an understanding of those

[53:46] sorts of factors of what the factors

[53:48] that the board's actually looking at

[53:49] does could help people understand in

[53:53] general why a permit might be dismissed

[53:55] even if it's not their specific permit.

[53:58] So Jared, for for you currently, do we list the reasons why an

[54:06] application could be denied or approved?

[54:07] What he just mentioned, do we do we

[54:10] mention that prior to or at the

[54:12] conclusion of a hearing?

[54:14] >> So I the email I originally shot you

[54:17] over with the description and the kind

[54:19] of uh legality of the beginning of the

[54:22] meeting does list pure discretionary

[54:25] um categories, we'll call them. um that

[54:28] the lawyer just went over. Um

[54:32] for each individual, we don't go like

[54:35] once the denial or approval happens, we

[54:37] don't go through that with them during

[54:39] the board meeting.

[54:40] >> But we do let people know ahead of time.

[54:43] >> Yeah.

[54:43] >> And I know your email, but the public

[54:45] didn't see the email. So, but ahead of

[54:47] time, we let them know of reasons what

[54:50] you look at.

[54:51] >> Yeah. We we tell them what we look at.

[54:53] We even let them know board members do

[54:55] survey the neighborhood, right? Um, and

[54:57] then my description, like a perfect

[54:59] example of what he was saying was steps.

[55:02] Um, if they live in a second floor

[55:03] apartment, I list that in addition,

[55:06] right, to the board members so they have

[55:08] that information like, hey, there's 15

[55:10] steps from the first floor to the second

[55:12] floor apartment where they reside. Um,

[55:14] so there are things that are taken into

[55:16] account. Um, we we list them at the

[55:19] meeting. I state them at the meeting.

[55:21] Um, but they're not like designated

[55:23] anywhere like on the application.

[55:27] [snorts]

[55:27] >> Is it possible to to

[55:30] put a disclaimer or something on the

[55:32] application? These are some of the

[55:34] parameters. I think the biggest thing is

[55:35] just lack of communication on any level

[55:38] and people just don't know and and and I

[55:40] think if we could at least make people

[55:42] aware that this is the criteria,

[55:45] each person could have a different

[55:47] reason for denying you and and you know,

[55:49] people just don't know, right? And and I

[55:51] think if we could just at least give

[55:52] that so people have some type of idea

[55:55] what's going on or what the criteria was

[55:57] that they were based it the decision was

[55:58] based on I think that would just help

[56:01] out a lot in regards to communication.

[56:03] Could we put that on just on the initial

[56:05] applications letters on the bottom?

[56:08] >> We can probably look at that application

[56:10] form and see. I mean it'd have to make

[56:12] it clear that it's not an exhaustive

[56:13] list. It's simply a representative

[56:15] example of some reasons why a permit may

[56:17] be granted or denied, but ultimately

[56:19] it's at the discretion of the board

[56:21] members. But there may be some language

[56:22] we could add to the I'll I'll work

[56:24] >> or or at least that it's not a uniform

[56:27] decision, right? So it could be

[56:28] individual and we don't share the

[56:30] individual. So it could be more than one

[56:32] reason.

[56:32] >> Yeah. There's no way to know

[56:34] >> a different reason for every board

[56:35] member. Just, you know, just give them

[56:36] something. I mean they like we don't

[56:38] tell them really anything. It's kind of

[56:40] >> it's hard. I understand it's a difficult

[56:42] situation, but it's given this. But I

[56:45] can I'm gonna I'll talk to J and uh

[56:48] assistant solicister

[56:51] because I know he handles those

[56:52] hearings. So maybe we can take a look at

[56:54] that form and see if there's some

[56:55] improvements can be made there. All

[56:57] right. So I'll uh how about four weeks?

[57:00] Not the next committee. We'll wait two

[57:02] more commit second committee from now

[57:03] and we'll bring that back. Thank you.

[57:07] >> Thank you, Mayor.

[57:08] >> Okay, we'll move on to Minister Pony. We

[57:09] may as well continue with the microphone

[57:11] work for his housing.

[57:12] >> Did you call me mister or minister? It

[57:14] sound like

[57:14] >> mister. Minister.

[57:15] >> Mister.

[57:16] >> I prefer minister.

[57:17] >> No, that's Roger Rogos. [laughter]

[57:20] >> So, I spoke to some of the council

[57:21] members. Um, it's not a whole hell of a

[57:24] lot of discussion. We've always, since I

[57:27] brought this over a year ago, we've

[57:28] always said if if a developer gets any

[57:30] subsidy, any subsidy. Well, it was

[57:32] brought to my attention two weeks ago by

[57:35] our current solicitor that it doesn't

[57:38] read any. It reads city, state. So, all

[57:42] they're doing, if you guys saw the

[57:44] update, they're adding any subsidy. So,

[57:46] state, county,

[57:48] uh, uh, Unity Bank gives a grant.

[57:50] That'll be, you know, that'll that'll trigger it. So, we're just

[57:53] spelling it out that any subsidy

[57:55] developer gets would trigger this bill

[57:57] and they would have to allocate units

[57:59] and things. So, we're just adding

[58:01] additional language to it just to make

[58:03] sure there's no loopholes or anything.

[58:04] So,

[58:04] >> that makes sense.

[58:05] >> Well, I mean, actually, we're taking

[58:06] away, but yes,

[58:08] >> we're adding by taking away just to make

[58:09] it clear that it's not limited that tax

[58:11] incentives are not limited to city or

[58:12] state tax incentives. I think it came up

[58:14] in the context apparently there is

[58:17] >> there are historic tax credits, but

[58:18] there are both separate federal and

[58:20] state historic tax credits and federal

[58:23] tax credits would not

[58:24] >> county and county

[58:25] >> Yeah. or county tax credits would not

[58:27] have fallen. So, by removing the word

[58:28] city or state from the from the statute,

[58:31] it should rectify that problem. So, I

[58:33] don't know if it's on I don't think

[58:34] >> it's on tomorrow.

[58:35] >> I didn't know if it was on tomorrow's

[58:36] agenda, but yeah, then we're good.

[58:38] >> Okay. What about hotels?

[58:40] >> Dwayne,

[58:44] » hotel mot.

[58:52] » All right. where we left off uh at the

[58:54] last committee meeting um was

[58:56] councilwoman uh Julie Sando Dennis uh

[58:59] wanted the definition for what uh a

[59:01] regulated rental unit was. I shared that

[59:04] today. I don't know if everybody was

[59:05] able to read it or had a chance to. I

[59:08] emailed it to everyone. Um so what we're

[59:11] doing is we're so the hotel itself is

[59:13] being caught under that verbiage as

[59:16] well. it was just at some point put in

[59:18] the exempt ones that aren't considered

[59:21] rental units. So, we're taking that out

[59:24] and then um so that'll now fall under

[59:27] the rental program

[59:30] with the bed and breakfast that was

[59:31] brought up. Um so, it is an owner

[59:34] occupied and there is only one in the

[59:38] city. I mean, we could amend it to take

[59:41] that out to make it a registered rental.

[59:43] To me, I I don't think it would hurt to

[59:46] leave it exempt because it's owner

[59:47] occupied. The owner does live there when

[59:50] tenants come in or well when transient

[59:52] guests come in. Um but I mean I'll leave

[59:54] that up to your discretion or

[59:56] >> Well, well, you got to make sure I would

[59:57] be in favor of that if if we're for sure

[1:00:00] that is a owner occupied. The problem is

[1:00:03] they they'll rent out both places and

[1:00:04] they'll go find a place sell the place

[1:00:06] because Belum is having that problem

[1:00:08] right now.

[1:00:08] >> Yeah. So, we only have one that's

[1:00:11] >> the one on Wood Avenue.

[1:00:13] >> No, there's no there's no better.

[1:00:15] >> No, no, no. There's there's only one.

[1:00:17] It's at 131 Catel Street.

[1:00:19] >> Are we sure? Mayor might know of two

[1:00:21] more.

[1:00:22] >> Then I went on a website.

[1:00:24] >> Then they're not legal. Are they Are you

[1:00:25] talking about Airbnbs?

[1:00:26] >> Yeah.

[1:00:27] >> No, we're not.

[1:00:28] >> So, short-term rentals are something

[1:00:30] completely different than a bed and

[1:00:32] breakfastdeed

[1:00:32] >> as far as zoning is required. So, so

[1:00:35] short-term rentals are under the rental

[1:00:38] program,

[1:00:38] >> but the one on center square above

[1:00:40] Bigers came to

[1:00:41] >> they got denied

[1:00:42] >> zoning. They got Oh, they got denied.

[1:00:44] That's right.

[1:00:44] >> So, here here's my concern. How many

[1:00:46] beds does does the bed and breakfast

[1:00:48] have that we're talking about?

[1:00:50] >> How many rooms?

[1:00:50] >> Just three bedrooms.

[1:00:51] >> Just three.

[1:00:52] >> Yeah.

[1:00:53] >> And there were there was conditions of

[1:00:55] approval for that

[1:00:56] >> through zoning when they got their

[1:00:57] approval. I I I just think if we start

[1:01:00] pulling out who does and who doesn't, it

[1:01:02] can get tricky later and people can find

[1:01:04] ways to circumvent. Personally, since

[1:01:06] we're talking about the the the

[1:01:09] safety of the visitors as well as our

[1:01:11] first responders, I'd like to see them

[1:01:13] all included in the the same inspections

[1:01:15] when it comes to fire. That's my

[1:01:17] opinion.

[1:01:17] >> I would too. I agree with that.

[1:01:21] >> All right. So,

[1:01:23] as far as uh the 45618

[1:01:27] uh A2, we will get rid of well, we'll

[1:01:30] remove section C as well for the bed and

[1:01:32] breakfast and then they'll fall under

[1:01:33] the rental program.

[1:01:34] >> Okay.

[1:01:35] >> So, the hotel the hotel will be out and

[1:01:37] the bed and breakfast will be out and

[1:01:38] fall under the rental uh program.

[1:01:40] >> Dwayne, can you provide an update to to

[1:01:42] Karen because we're going to update it

[1:01:44] for tomorrow's night's meeting.

[1:01:45] >> Absolutely.

[1:01:45] >> Introduce it.

[1:01:46] >> Great introduction.

[1:01:47] >> Yep. Wayne, can I uh ask you just to go

[1:01:50] back a little bit to um it's uh 2 A.

[1:01:57] So it's A2A 45618

[1:02:01] A2A

[1:02:03] or B rather A2B. So essentially you were you're going to uh take away

[1:02:11] from the carve out hotels and motel,

[1:02:14] right?

[1:02:16] Um

[1:02:19] the thing is

[1:02:22] up here

[1:02:23] so a hotel in a motel is uh is part is a regulated rental unit based on our

[1:02:31] um

[1:02:32] definitions.

[1:02:34] So here you say for a rooming house,

[1:02:37] this is in 45618A1.

[1:02:40] For a rooming house, a single license is

[1:02:42] allowed for all units within a rooming

[1:02:44] house building. Shouldn't that also be

[1:02:46] for a hotel and motel? I mean, you're

[1:02:49] not asking a hotel or motel to get a

[1:02:51] license for each individual room.

[1:02:53] >> Wait, what section you in again? Just so

[1:02:54] I'm following 561 18 A2B

[1:02:58] >> A2B.

[1:03:00] So, hotels, motel used for transit

[1:03:02] visitors, but without units.

[1:03:04] >> It's 45 5618 A1.

[1:03:09] >> Yep.

[1:03:10] >> All right.

[1:03:12] >> So, it starts with a residential rental

[1:03:14] license shall be required for all

[1:03:15] regulated rental units.

[1:03:17] >> Yep.

[1:03:18] >> A regulated rental unit includes a hotel

[1:03:20] and a motel.

[1:03:21] >> That's correct.

[1:03:22] >> Okay. Then you say in the same

[1:03:24] paragraph, for a rooming house, a single

[1:03:27] license is allowed for all units within

[1:03:29] a rooming house building. In other

[1:03:31] words, you only need one license.

[1:03:33] Wouldn't that also be true for hotels

[1:03:35] and motel where you only need one

[1:03:37] license?

[1:03:39] >> Well, you're I guess you're kind of

[1:03:41] splitting hairs because a hotel is is a

[1:03:44] different use than a rooming house.

[1:03:48] >> No, it's just the license requirement.

[1:03:49] In other words, does a hotel owner have

[1:03:51] to go and get a license for every single

[1:03:53] different unit in the hotel? It the way

[1:03:56] it reads now, they do.

[1:03:59] >> I I would say the way it reads, yes,

[1:04:01] because there's it's two different uses.

[1:04:03] A rooming house is different than what a

[1:04:05] hotel is as far as the use.

[1:04:08] >> Oh, I see. I see you're saying the unit

[1:04:10] or shall be organ for a room.

[1:04:14] Well, why even have that that uh

[1:04:17] sentence

[1:04:20] like

[1:04:22] no

[1:04:25] I think you're missing the point. It's

[1:04:26] not two separate uses. So a residential

[1:04:29] rental license shall be required for all

[1:04:31] regulated rental units. That includes

[1:04:35] SRO's, hotels, motel. Okay.

[1:04:38] >> And then

[1:04:41] for all regulated rental units. So that

[1:04:45] includes a motel. And here you're saying

[1:04:47] for a rooming house only a single

[1:04:49] license is allowed for all units within

[1:04:52] a rooming house building. So for a

[1:04:54] motel, isn't it just a single house is a

[1:04:58] single license is allowed?

[1:05:00] >> Well, it's more or less a commercial

[1:05:02] building, right? So what what I'm saying

[1:05:04] is and and maybe we're splitting hairs

[1:05:06] on what it is. I'm looking at it as the

[1:05:09] use of the building itself. The use of a

[1:05:12] building for a hotel is completely

[1:05:14] different than the use of a rooming

[1:05:17] house, right? You're having single rooms

[1:05:20] that are, you know, not as large as

[1:05:23] hotel rooms because, you know, hotel

[1:05:24] rooms are a lot larger. Roaming houses

[1:05:26] don't have a shower within their unit.

[1:05:28] It's usually a communal shower within

[1:05:31] the house. Mhm.

[1:05:32] >> Um,

[1:05:33] >> but doesn't a motel does a motel then

[1:05:39] need to get more than a single license

[1:05:41] for all its units?

[1:05:45] » I would say yes.

[1:05:47] >> So if a motel has a 100 units and it it

[1:05:50] has to get a 100 licenses.

[1:05:51] >> Yes. It's just like the marquee has 100

[1:05:53] units. It would have to get 100 rental

[1:05:55] licenses.

[1:05:56] >> Okay. For

[1:05:56] >> each unit.

[1:05:58] >> That's how Oh, I didn't know that's how

[1:05:59] you

[1:06:01] >> Okay.

[1:06:03] Got it. Hey, then it makes perfect sense

[1:06:05] then.

[1:06:06] >> Thank you.

[1:06:08] >> If there's no other questions or

[1:06:09] comments, it'll be on the agenda

[1:06:10] tomorrow for introduction and Dwayne

[1:06:12] will update and get the camera

[1:06:14] >> pulling that out.

[1:06:16] >> Okay. Law lease agreement renewal.

[1:06:20] >> We wanted to get information to set the

[1:06:23] um

[1:06:23] >> I have a slight I have a slight there's

[1:06:25] no

[1:06:26] >> county didn't give us anything.

[1:06:28] >> Mayor, we did receive some

[1:06:29] correspondence uh today. It was late

[1:06:31] today, but um I have to verify we we got

[1:06:35] some expenses, but looking at that uh

[1:06:39] report um I have more questions than I

[1:06:42] do anything else. Um so I we we got this

[1:06:47] late today and I can't comment on like

[1:06:49] what kind of information we got there.

[1:06:51] >> So um

[1:06:52] >> table it for two weeks.

[1:06:53] >> Table it. Well, we do have to

[1:06:56] >> notify them

[1:06:57] >> that the tenant should be notified

[1:07:00] by August 1st. So, there should be a

[1:07:03] decision tomorrow made as to whether to

[1:07:08] I mean, the option would be to renew the

[1:07:10] lease at the current rent and then wait

[1:07:12] a year and see where we're at and have

[1:07:13] one once we have just the idea of

[1:07:17] raising the rent during the lease is

[1:07:18] tricky. Probably okay, but I don't like

[1:07:21] probably. The problem though is if if

[1:07:23] everybody here discussed what the cost

[1:07:26] is to maintain and everything, we don't

[1:07:27] have that information. How can we

[1:07:28] >> We do not have that information. So,

[1:07:30] it's a question of do we do we choose to

[1:07:33] change the rent without that information

[1:07:35] tomorrow or do you choose to leave the

[1:07:37] rent the same without that information?

[1:07:39] >> I I I can try to provide a an update

[1:07:41] tomorrow. So, like I said, I did not get

[1:07:43] a chance to um it came in late in the

[1:07:45] day and I I really have to sit down and

[1:07:47] re and review it with um not only John

[1:07:50] Kingsley, but call um the attorney um

[1:07:55] and just question some of the reports.

[1:07:57] It's just not that clear.

[1:07:58] >> I mean, there there's there's thousand

[1:08:00] >> I think we should raise it. Mrs. Sos is

[1:08:03] not going to be happy regardless. So, I

[1:08:05] think we should just let her know that

[1:08:06] her rent's being increased. I mean, I

[1:08:09] don't care if it's to $250,

[1:08:12] $14 a month.

[1:08:13] >> So, let me ask let me ask

[1:08:15] >> Have you re Sorry. Have you reached out

[1:08:16] to Miss Host to get her income or has

[1:08:19] anybody Sorry.

[1:08:20] >> Verify it.

[1:08:21] >> No, I'm not aware of of if anyone has

[1:08:24] done that or not. I would I I would ask

[1:08:28] I will ask John Kingsley um since he was

[1:08:30] the one who was the uh point person on

[1:08:33] this project. Um but so tomorrow we can

[1:08:37] regroup and try to get um just some

[1:08:40] clarity. There is a report that's

[1:08:42] showing and again I I got to look at I

[1:08:44] got to look at the in more detail that's

[1:08:47] showing like showing at least a few

[1:08:49] thousand dollars in expenses. Now my

[1:08:52] question going back to you anyway is

[1:08:55] regarding the market value. It doesn't

[1:08:57] sound like you want to go up to market

[1:08:59] value but you do want to increase the uh

[1:09:01] rental rate because there's expenses. Okay. So, it's

[1:09:05] not based on

[1:09:05] >> it' be at least 15% of her income.

[1:09:07] >> Gotcha.

[1:09:08] >> I agree.

[1:09:09] >> Yeah. I

[1:09:10] >> I think if we set it a percentage of her

[1:09:12] income and you know it would account for

[1:09:13] it every single year.

[1:09:14] >> Yeah. I'm not aware that we were able to

[1:09:16] get any any information.

[1:09:17] >> I I will get you her income by the

[1:09:19] morning.

[1:09:20] >> That's fine. Like we're meeting we have

[1:09:22] a solicitor's meeting at 9:00 a.m. So

[1:09:24] >> I'll get it for you tonight if we get

[1:09:25] out of here in time or tomorrow.

[1:09:27] >> They'll get it to me by nine o'clock and

[1:09:28] that's fine.

[1:09:30] I'm not [laughter]

[1:09:31] >> Oh, no way.

[1:09:33] >> Every day.

[1:09:34] >> Can we talk about what percentage of our

[1:09:36] income we would increase it to?

[1:09:38] >> Sure.

[1:09:39] >> I mean, because Mayor, you mentioned

[1:09:41] 15%. I mean, that's awfully It's hard to tell a constituent. Yeah, we're

[1:09:46] giving this incredible deal to this one

[1:09:49] individual.

[1:09:51] >> But my my concern,

[1:09:52] >> why can't it be 30? Like,

[1:09:54] >> so the 30 we're doing on my bill, which

[1:09:56] is the workforce housing, right? So, the

[1:09:58] middle class

[1:09:59] I can't guarantee until I get the

[1:10:01] number, but I'm almost positive she's

[1:10:03] significantly lower than that on

[1:10:06] probably just whatever social security

[1:10:08] gives her.

[1:10:09] >> She would fall in 30%. Yeah, she would

[1:10:11] fall in 30%.

[1:10:12] >> Based based on a very rough like uh

[1:10:16] internet analysis,

[1:10:19] like a widow living alone who's let's

[1:10:22] say never worked, and I I don't know

[1:10:23] whether she's worked or not, who had a

[1:10:25] laborer for a husband.

[1:10:28] um they would make

[1:10:30] between $1,800 to $2,400 a month

[1:10:34] >> income.

[1:10:35] >> So if we took 25% of 1800s, that would

[1:10:39] make $450

[1:10:41] in rent, which would be a 99.1%

[1:10:44] increase, almost 100% increase or

[1:10:45] doubling it. I

[1:10:47] >> I think the question though is what what

[1:10:50] exactly is that increase going to do for

[1:10:52] us without knowing the numbers of what's

[1:10:55] happening there? And I I don't think and

[1:10:57] I don't think unless you go market rate,

[1:10:58] you're going to make a significant

[1:11:00] difference for us with any increase.

[1:11:02] >> And and I know to your point,

[1:11:03] Councilwoman, about getting such a sweet

[1:11:06] deal.

[1:11:06] >> It's a perception issue,

[1:11:08] >> but the woman's been there for 50 years.

[1:11:10] I mean, to to we get to to to raise her

[1:11:13] rent 100%. That's not going to help us

[1:11:14] with anything.

[1:11:15] >> But those those units weren't meant to

[1:11:17] have people there 50 years. They were

[1:11:19] meant to be there and to move on. I

[1:11:22] don't disagree, but that's a a systemic

[1:11:24] problem for over 50 years by the city,

[1:11:26] not from her.

[1:11:27] >> I think a percentage of income is fair,

[1:11:29] but you know, meanwhile, in a few

[1:11:31] months, it not soon we're going to be

[1:11:33] sitting down with the budget looking for

[1:11:34] two pennies to to to put together and

[1:11:37] meanwhile we're incurring costs on a

[1:11:40] unit.

[1:11:40] >> We have to look at that.

[1:11:42] >> Yeah. But but and that's why I mentioned

[1:11:43] prior of adjusting the lease to say, you

[1:11:47] know, uh uh you want a sidewalk replaced

[1:11:49] just because you don't like it. Well,

[1:11:51] that's your responsibility. We're not

[1:11:52] paying for that. And we haven't explored

[1:11:55] looking at what we're putting out. So, I

[1:11:57] think we need to adjust the lease to say

[1:11:59] we can't just come and repair things

[1:12:01] just cuz you don't like it.

[1:12:02] >> Sure. I mean, there's a lot of things in

[1:12:03] my own home I'd like to repair as well.

[1:12:05] But, you know, there if it's not a code

[1:12:07] violation or a safety violation, it

[1:12:09] doesn't always get done. You do it when

[1:12:11] you can afford to do it.

[1:12:12] >> So, I think we should update the Lisa at

[1:12:13] least to say that so we're not

[1:12:14] hemorrhaging the money as we look like

[1:12:16] we've been doing. Um, but I'll get her

[1:12:19] salary. I I'll talk to her today and try

[1:12:21] to get documentation and then give it to

[1:12:23] you guys.

[1:12:23] >> Good. Come with me.

[1:12:25] >> Suggestion is to um not increase the

[1:12:28] rent but have her pay for maintenance.

[1:12:30] >> I'm saying I think we talked about it

[1:12:32] before. We should we should consider it

[1:12:33] if it's something that is our

[1:12:35] responsibility.

[1:12:36] >> Tenant pay for maintenance is that they

[1:12:38] don't do it.

[1:12:39] >> But what I'm saying

[1:12:40] >> we get back as a building that is

[1:12:42] >> deplorable that requires $40,000 worth

[1:12:45] of improvements. What I'm saying is

[1:12:47] looking at it like other landlords,

[1:12:49] right? If if the roof is leaking because

[1:12:51] the shingles are old, that's our

[1:12:53] responsibility, right? If she clogs the

[1:12:56] sink with hair or something else, that's

[1:12:58] her responsibility. If she wants the

[1:13:00] sidewalk done because she doesn't like

[1:13:01] the way it looks anymore, that's your

[1:13:02] responsibility, right? Like I think we

[1:13:04] need to look at things like that and a

[1:13:06] small percentage based on her her

[1:13:09] income. My my concern is I just don't

[1:13:11] want to exceed

[1:13:13] >> her increase from social security and

[1:13:14] then we put her out in the street. I

[1:13:16] mean that's why we need that's an

[1:13:17] important point to be able I think you

[1:13:20] know other affordable housing has its

[1:13:22] percentages as well that they look at

[1:13:23] income

[1:13:24] >> it's all built in though

[1:13:26] >> it it you know if you're if you find out

[1:13:29] that there's more coming in there could

[1:13:31] be p there could be things we don't know

[1:13:32] about it's not fair to other the other

[1:13:35] taxpayers to burden that call

[1:13:37] >> and updates. I think we really got to

[1:13:39] like take a good look at that lease and

[1:13:41] see what that lease is saying because if

[1:13:43] she's under housing authority, is that

[1:13:45] who's holding the

[1:13:46] >> No, she's not. She's under the city of

[1:13:48] East.

[1:13:49] >> Okay. So, we still need to look at that

[1:13:50] lease so that we can make sure that

[1:13:53] going forward that we're

[1:13:56] not displacing her. I'm concerned about

[1:13:58] displacing.

[1:13:59] >> Right. But here's the problem with that,

[1:14:00] Councilman. We mentioned that two weeks

[1:14:02] ago

[1:14:02] >> and now tomorrow's our last voting

[1:14:04] meeting and it needs to be done for

[1:14:05] August 1. So, what do we do? We didn't

[1:14:07] do what we were.

[1:14:08] >> That's what I'm saying. Um, council,

[1:14:10] >> no. Lei County didn't get back to John.

[1:14:12] tried to get the information. Lei

[1:14:14] County didn't get back to him.

[1:14:15] >> They're the only one who hold it.

[1:14:16] >> At minimum, it seems like she's getting

[1:14:18] $1,800.

[1:14:19] >> They got back they got back to us late today. Both myself and Mike were on

[1:14:23] the email, but I mean, this is late. And

[1:14:26] >> well, I'll email what I get tonight to

[1:14:28] all the council and to the

[1:14:29] administration, and then we can

[1:14:30] tomorrow. We'll just have to

[1:14:32] >> discuss it.

[1:14:33] and do something tomorrow. I

[1:14:34] mean, it's our last day to vote on it

[1:14:35] before the renewal.

[1:14:37] >> I think we should vote on it tomorrow

[1:14:38] night. And

[1:14:40] >> no matter what you raise it to, I I'm

[1:14:42] sure she will be at the next meeting.

[1:14:44] >> Well, I mean, that's fine. But

[1:14:45] >> that's fine.

[1:14:46] >> As long as we're doing it fair. I mean,

[1:14:48] we got, you know, as long as we're doing

[1:14:49] it fair. Nobody's going to I've learned

[1:14:51] over the last three years, no matter

[1:14:52] what you do, you're going to piss

[1:14:53] everybody off. So,

[1:14:55] >> what it is

[1:14:56] >> as an individual, you can't imagine that

[1:14:58] your rate of

[1:15:00] goes up.

[1:15:01] >> That never goes up. I mean it just

[1:15:03] >> don't happen. It does. So

[1:15:06] >> you get probably get cooler.

[1:15:07] >> Mike, remind us on the lease what's in

[1:15:10] there for increases on the lease.

[1:15:12] >> So there's no limit on the increase.

[1:15:13] >> No limit, but

[1:15:14] >> you can increase the the but

[1:15:17] >> So it doesn't say income or anything.

[1:15:18] It's whatever we feel like doing.

[1:15:20] >> The rent can be whatever number the city

[1:15:22] wants it to be. But anything else

[1:15:24] requires consent of the property owner.

[1:15:27] There is some room in for interpretation

[1:15:29] in what exact level of maintenance is

[1:15:31] required,

[1:15:32] >> right?

[1:15:32] >> I think it's necessary maintenance. So,

[1:15:34] I think there is

[1:15:36] there's a certain definition of what's

[1:15:38] necessary versus what somebody might

[1:15:40] like to have.

[1:15:41] >> Could you put that together for

[1:15:42] tomorrow?

[1:15:43] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[1:15:43] >> Of of your recommendation because of

[1:15:46] >> Yeah. of the repairs.

[1:15:50] » Well, we know what's going to happen to

[1:15:51] that property once living in it.

[1:15:54] >> And I mean, we're looking at we're

[1:15:55] looking at third. we're going to sell it

[1:15:56] and we're looking at we talk about

[1:15:58] 30,000 right because that's what like

[1:16:00] the workforce housing is like 30 up to

[1:16:02] 70 or whatever but if she's making 18 a

[1:16:04] month she 30% if she's looking at 18 a

[1:16:07] month she's making like 21 cents a year

[1:16:09] so that wouldn't put her in workforce

[1:16:10] that would put her at low income what

[1:16:12] the percentage is for low income

[1:16:13] >> I think it makes the most sense to

[1:16:15] charge her a percentage of her income

[1:16:17] lock it in every year she'll get an

[1:16:20] increase in you know her social security

[1:16:21] or whatever

[1:16:22] >> but the question is what's the

[1:16:23] percentage

[1:16:24] >> well then we got to figure that Right.

[1:16:26] That's what we have to do. And then

[1:16:28] >> low income

[1:16:28] >> then it'll go up automatically every

[1:16:30] year

[1:16:30] >> because 216 is considered low income.

[1:16:32] >> Just generally

[1:16:33] >> 25%.

[1:16:35] >> Yeah. That's general thumb, but I don't

[1:16:37] know if that's the federal rule.

[1:16:38] >> Yeah. I I don't know.

[1:16:40] >> It's always 30%. And it really doesn't

[1:16:42] really increase the state level. They

[1:16:45] >> 30%.

[1:16:45] >> Yeah.

[1:16:46] >> For low income people.

[1:16:47] >> Yeah.

[1:16:48] >> Well, for the federal

[1:16:50] Kenny worked with it for 20 years, so he

[1:16:52] knows.

[1:16:52] >> Does she pay for her own utilities?

[1:16:55] Does

[1:16:55] >> I believe so, but

[1:16:58] >> yeah, I don't see that in the lease, so

[1:17:00] I'm assuming she must be.

[1:17:01] >> Yeah. So, just I mean, be aware though

[1:17:03] that and I and I think it's fine, but

[1:17:06] let's just say she makes $1,800

[1:17:10] and if we were to get 25%, we'd

[1:17:12] effectively be doubling her rent, which

[1:17:14] I think is fair. That's only um $450 a

[1:17:19] month.

[1:17:22] >> She just can't go to bangle no more. God

[1:17:24] bless her.

[1:17:28] » So, just a quick thing, market rate

[1:17:30] departments. Many landlords raise rent 3

[1:17:32] to 5% per year to keep up with

[1:17:34] inflation, operating costs, whatever. In

[1:17:36] a tight housing market, 5 to 10%

[1:17:38] increase. Affordable uh HUD public

[1:17:40] housing or housing vouchers. Rent is

[1:17:43] generally based on the tenants income.

[1:17:44] Most tenants pay about 30% of their

[1:17:47] adjusted monthly income towards rent

[1:17:50] in utilities and things included. So,

[1:17:53] we'll take her yearly or her monthly

[1:17:56] salary and and look at 30% of that.

[1:17:59] >> Yeah.

[1:17:59] >> And see what that comes with. The

[1:18:01] reality is never $140, which is more

[1:18:04] than twice what she's paying now.

[1:18:06] >> At that point, might want to look at a

[1:18:08] step up per year. That's a big

[1:18:10] >> That's a big increase at one time. Yeah,

[1:18:11] absolutely.

[1:18:12] >> Well, it's double if we just go to 25%.

[1:18:16] If her income's 1,800,

[1:18:18] >> I would suggest that we make a lease, a

[1:18:20] new lease, Mike, a new lease that says

[1:18:23] that what it's going to go up to and

[1:18:25] maybe maybe she will move out, move in

[1:18:28] with her sister.

[1:18:31] >> She's watching, man.

[1:18:32] >> No, there is no [laughter]

[1:18:34] >> any rent increase doesn't go in effect

[1:18:36] for two months anyway. So, there'd be a

[1:18:37] two month there'd be a two-month lag

[1:18:40] before there's a rent increase any

[1:18:41] before the rent increase becomes

[1:18:42] effective. So, I'll get council her

[1:18:46] yearly income or monthly income.

[1:18:48] >> You going to knock on her door?

[1:18:49] >> I am.

[1:18:50] I'm going to tell her Sal Panto

[1:18:52] sent me. And then and I'm going to give

[1:18:54] her my card with his cell phone number.

[1:18:57] >> Go for it.

[1:18:57] >> And in the meantime,

[1:18:58] >> I'll bring you.

[1:19:00] >> In the meantime, you'll look at um

[1:19:02] repairs and maintenance and then we'll

[1:19:04] just have to

[1:19:05] >> just a quick question from the

[1:19:06] solicitor. Um, is is there an anti- um

[1:19:10] sub lease provision in the contract?

[1:19:13] >> I believe there is. I don't have the

[1:19:14] lease in front of me at this moment.

[1:19:15] >> Yeah, because I mean we don't want her

[1:19:17] moving out

[1:19:18] >> and subleasasing it and I'm charging

[1:19:20] $2,000.

[1:19:21] >> I'm almost certain there's not there's

[1:19:23] no,

[1:19:23] >> but I will double check to make sure.

[1:19:25] >> All right.

[1:19:26] We

[1:19:28] >> Yeah.

[1:19:29] >> Thank you.

[1:19:30] >> Okay. Uh, the next two deal with DCD and

[1:19:33] the chairman of the DCD committee does

[1:19:35] not know what they're about, so Hold off

[1:19:37] whether Mr. Kingsy can explain them to

[1:19:39] us or I'll get information on them

[1:19:41] tomorrow.

[1:19:41] >> Mayor, I think just for sake, I think

[1:19:44] some of our directors still don't

[1:19:46] understand the whole concept of

[1:19:48] committee meeting and council meeting.

[1:19:49] So, they're bringing like everything.

[1:19:51] They're applying for a grant, right?

[1:19:53] They're just applying for grants, but I

[1:19:54] think just they're crossing all their

[1:19:56] tees and dotting on their eyes. So, they

[1:19:57] wanted to let us know what they're

[1:19:59] applying for. So, I'll get that

[1:20:00] information out to everyone tonight.

[1:20:02] >> But that's really what it is. It's I

[1:20:04] don't see us voting no on on applying

[1:20:06] for a grant. So,

[1:20:08] >> right.

[1:20:08] >> Um

[1:20:09] >> the last item is resolution appointing

[1:20:11] and reappointing people to authorities

[1:20:13] board. You

[1:20:14] >> skip one.

[1:20:16] >> Wait, six, seven, eight.

[1:20:17] >> Oh, open go software implementation.

[1:20:20] >> Eight. Six and seven are seven and

[1:20:21] eight.

[1:20:22] >> So, mayor's going to do eight.

[1:20:23] >> Oh, we

[1:20:25] >> six and seven are the grants for DCD

[1:20:27] that

[1:20:28] >> Oh, can I just can I please raise an

[1:20:31] issue about seven? the resolution

[1:20:34] authorizing East DCD to apply for a

[1:20:36] hotel tax grant. That grant is to go

[1:20:41] towards um oh I had it up shoot the

[1:20:46] infamous bugler

[1:20:48] and I don't think we want to say the

[1:20:51] infamous bugler in our ordinance. So

[1:20:54] infamous means uh somebody well known

[1:20:58] for some bad quality or deed such as an

[1:21:01] infamous war criminal

[1:21:04] >> and people on uh AI ask is infamous

[1:21:06] positive or negative and it is strictly

[1:21:09] negative. It means well known for a bad

[1:21:11] reason such as a scandalous act, crime

[1:21:14] or poor poor reputation according to

[1:21:17] Mariam Webster.

[1:21:18] >> And we don't know what the bugler did.

[1:21:19] Well, who

[1:21:21] wrote it?

[1:21:21] >> Who woke him up?

[1:21:22] >> Because it's an or it's a resolution. I

[1:21:26] think we should change the term

[1:21:27] infamous.

[1:21:30] >> Something 1861.

[1:21:32] [laughter]

[1:21:33] >> Yeah.

[1:21:33] >> Something.

[1:21:34] >> He woke everybody up and

[1:21:35] >> scandalous.

[1:21:36] >> Yes. Less scandic

[1:21:37] >> and more.

[1:21:38] >> Yeah. Iconic's fine. That's good.

[1:21:41] >> The iconic view or it's iconic.

[1:21:44] >> So, we're good with the plan for the

[1:21:46] brand, but we just want to change that

[1:21:47] in the wording. change that in the

[1:21:49] wording if unless you want to keep it.

[1:21:52] [laughter]

[1:21:53] >> I don't want to keep it. You're right. I

[1:21:54] agree. I know.

[1:21:55] >> All right, mayor. Number eight is yours.

[1:21:57] >> Well, we're going to number eight is

[1:21:59] resolution for open gov software

[1:22:01] implementation.

[1:22:02] >> He's going to be giving a pretty

[1:22:03] >> good grant for that. Correct.

[1:22:05] >> Right. So, um council already approved

[1:22:08] um the acquisition for the um new

[1:22:11] software. There's a cost to the

[1:22:13] software. Uh we are, as the mayor said,

[1:22:15] we applied for a grant. Um we confident

[1:22:19] in getting that grant. It's an annual

[1:22:20] grant. Um the uh this the implementation

[1:22:25] cost I think it was about 400,000.

[1:22:29] Um the uh a letters went out to various

[1:22:34] banks. There was an RFP unvest

[1:22:37] came back their rate was at 4%. It was

[1:22:40] about at least one point if not greater

[1:22:42] than everyone else.

[1:22:43] >> Mark said he'd be giving that if anybody

[1:22:45] has any questions he'd be willing to

[1:22:47] answer them tomorrow.

[1:22:49] the implementation cost is super high

[1:22:51] like is there

[1:22:52] >> a reason for that

[1:22:54] >> because we're already working with the

[1:22:55] software already

[1:22:57] my understanding for Mark so we're just

[1:22:59] kind of

[1:22:59] >> yeah no

[1:23:00] >> stuck with that

[1:23:02] >> there's well I mean it's a it's an

[1:23:05] enterprise level software and it

[1:23:07] includes not only the finance piece but

[1:23:11] it also includes the tax pieces as well

[1:23:14] >> but it's not a um

[1:23:17] In the scope in the scope of work, there

[1:23:19] were an estimated amount of hours that

[1:23:21] were put in there.

[1:23:22] >> So, it's based on hours.

[1:23:23] >> Yeah.

[1:23:27] » Okay. And appointments to and

[1:23:29] reappoints. There are three appointments

[1:23:31] up for um one is Linda Thomas, my wife

[1:23:34] Pam, and Michelle Volcano Hall. They're

[1:23:37] the three for zoning. And Bob McDonald,

[1:23:40] who is back here in a black shirt, is

[1:23:43] being appointed to the um planning

[1:23:45] commission. Oh, good.

[1:23:46] >> Congratulations.

[1:23:50] >> All right. Mayor,

[1:23:51] >> I have a question, mayor, on on the

[1:23:52] zoning hearing board terms. Um, they all

[1:23:56] expire on different years. I'm just

[1:23:59] curious why that is.

[1:24:00] >> The alternative, I think.

[1:24:01] >> Yeah. They all

[1:24:02] >> 2930.

[1:24:05] >> It says that you

[1:24:07] >> stagger all your votes

[1:24:10] >> so you don't put all new board members

[1:24:12] on at the same time.

[1:24:13] >> Gotcha.

[1:24:14] Mayor, I have a question um about the

[1:24:16] zoning hearing board reappoint of one

[1:24:19] member who um whose absentee record

[1:24:22] seems to be pretty significant.

[1:24:24] >> It is.

[1:24:26] >> And so I I would like you to know that,

[1:24:28] you know, I'd like to see a more active

[1:24:31] um

[1:24:32] >> commissioner on that board.

[1:24:36] Mayor to that point when we passed the

[1:24:38] attendance policy towards the end of

[1:24:39] last year before the new council came on

[1:24:42] >> we were applying that to the ABCs as

[1:24:44] well right corre

[1:24:47] so are we over

[1:24:48] >> three per year

[1:24:49] >> so are we generous I think

[1:24:51] >> are we overseeing that to to so we know

[1:24:54] who's in violation of the or okay

[1:24:56] >> so do we have those numbers the

[1:24:58] >> I don't I'd like to see that

[1:25:01] >> so just for the new council

[1:25:03] >> I don't think the zoning board has a

[1:25:05] secretary

[1:25:06] I think that's the problem. Planning

[1:25:08] Commission has a secretary who goes to

[1:25:10] every meeting. Uh I'll have to ask

[1:25:13] Dwayne. Dwayne's at every zoning board

[1:25:15] meeting

[1:25:15] >> or we could ask a solicitor just to take

[1:25:17] attendance. So for the new council

[1:25:18] members, we passed a uh attendance

[1:25:21] ordinance. Um a special person helped us

[1:25:24] come up with that, gave us the reason.

[1:25:26] So and and we put it so so uh every

[1:25:29] after three attendances you could be,

[1:25:32] you know, removed from the ABCs, not

[1:25:34] from council obviously. And at the end

[1:25:35] of the year, council announces Karen

[1:25:38] announces what council members how many

[1:25:40] meetings they miss throughout the year

[1:25:41] and kind of like uh uh embarrassment

[1:25:45] almost if you miss a whole lot of

[1:25:46] meetings, unexcused meetings. So, if we

[1:25:49] can start getting to make sure that the

[1:25:50] ABCs are taking attendance, that way

[1:25:53] it's it's easier to honor the ordinance.

[1:25:57] >> Okay.

[1:25:57] >> Well, I mean, can we are we voting on

[1:26:01] these as a whole or can we make

[1:26:04] individually. Individually, you can

[1:26:06] vote.

[1:26:06] >> No, you can vote in

[1:26:08] >> saying if there was if they had three

[1:26:10] absences, then they're gone.

[1:26:12] >> Yes,

[1:26:12] >> we have the right to say you're you're

[1:26:14] gone. You're getting

[1:26:15] >> The problem is zoning board is really

[1:26:17] critical because it's a quasi judicial

[1:26:20] board and if there's only four there,

[1:26:23] which most of the time there are, it

[1:26:26] becomes a two two tie, they get they're

[1:26:28] guaranteed approval.

[1:26:30] denial rather

[1:26:32] >> at times at at times we haven't even had

[1:26:34] a quorum

[1:26:35] >> I know

[1:26:36] >> which is a big problem

[1:26:38] >> so the reappoints will be

[1:26:39] >> well the only time you didn't have a

[1:26:40] corum was when my wife and I were away

[1:26:43] >> whatever

[1:26:44] >> I mean that was a planned absence there

[1:26:46] were so many other people missing that

[1:26:47] Mikeella had to run the meeting

[1:26:51] I remember

[1:26:52] >> with agreement from all parties involved

[1:26:55] >> yeah well if anybody has any suggestions

[1:26:57] for who they want to put on the boards

[1:26:58] I'm having a hard time because people

[1:27:00] don't want them to serve on the boards

[1:27:01] anymore.

[1:27:03] Used to be an honor to serve on the

[1:27:04] board. Now

[1:27:05] >> they don't want to.

[1:27:08] They don't give the time.

[1:27:11] >> Well, thank you, Rob.

[1:27:13] >> We'll see you tomorrow.

[1:27:14] >> Thank you.

[1:27:16] >> Mayor. Um, do you want to have an an

[1:27:18] executive session?

[1:27:19] >> Tomorrow. I'm just going to announce it.

[1:27:20] Tomorrow's executive session will start

[1:27:21] at 5:40.

[1:27:23] >> No, we we should start at 5:30.

[1:27:26] >> Yeah.

[1:27:26] >> All right. 5:30.

[1:27:28] >> Perfect.

[1:27:29] Mayor, I make a motion to adjurnn.

[1:27:31] >> Second,

[1:27:32] >> third.

[1:27:32] >> Moved and seconded. All in favor?

[1:27:34] >> I

[1:27:36] have enough.

[1:27:43] responsive,

[1:27:55] » right? Which means it's not

[1:28:09] » afraid. I'm afraid to go there because I

[1:28:10] might You know what?

[1:28:21] » It doesn't have to be

[1:28:35] » correct.

[1:28:39] Yeah. Yeah.

[1:28:42] and see if we need to do a regular

[1:28:45] Thank you. Good to see you. Sure,

[1:28:54] » Julie.

City Council Committee Meeting 7/21/2026

Transcript