[0:03] Live.

[0:04] Is it working?

[0:05] Yeah, okay.

[0:07] we'll call to order at 7:02.

[0:11] If you'd join me with the Pledge of

[0:13] Allegiance.

[0:15] >> [clears throat]

[0:18] » I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

[0:21] United States of America, and to the

[0:23] republic for which it stands, one nation

[0:27] under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[0:30] justice for all.

[0:41] » Roll call.

[0:44] » Mayor Andrew Hagen.

[0:46] >> Here.

[0:47] >> Mayor Pro Tem Melinda Walker.

[0:49] >> Here.

[0:50] >> Councilmember Jeremy Engel.

[0:52] >> Present.

[0:52] >> Councilmember Shawn Sherman.

[0:54] >> Here.

[0:55] >> Councilmember Jeff Key.

[0:56] >> Here.

[0:57] >> You have quorum.

[0:59] >> It looks like we have a presentation

[1:00] today for

[1:02] a

[1:03] lumber It's a

[1:04] lumber yard sellers, right?

[1:06] Um it's a pretty

[1:08] good family business that's been in town

[1:10] here for a little while. My

[1:12] >> [screaming]

[1:12] >> uh wife's been there quite a few times

[1:14] and has reported back that it's a

[1:17] pretty uh

[1:18] amazing atmosphere, you know, um

[1:20] some high-quality

[1:22] people obviously you guys running that.

[1:24] Um

[1:25] it's it's pretty amazing that there's

[1:27] like 5,000 businesses that sounds like

[1:30] that were up against this particular

[1:32] award and you guys

[1:33] end up winning it. That's something to

[1:35] tip your hat to. That's pretty awesome.

[1:38] Um

[1:41] Did anyone on the dais want to say

[1:42] anything?

[1:44] >> I just have a brief comment. Um

[1:46] >> [snorts]

[1:47] >> Eric and Megan I remember when you came

[1:49] to planning commission. I know I was on

[1:52] the planning commission you were talking

[1:53] about bringing a wine bar.

[1:56] And here you are

[1:59] six, seven years later after that

[2:01] initial meeting and

[2:03] now you're really knocking it out out of

[2:05] the park for being small business of the

[2:07] year for ninth Assembly District. So, um

[2:12] I've definitely partaken in uh

[2:16] some of your wine and some of your uh

[2:18] charcuterie, but really

[2:21] uh I know

[2:23] and speaking with some of my friends

[2:25] living surrounding communities,

[2:28] um

[2:29] Lumberyard Cellars is now a landmark for

[2:31] the city of Escalon. And so, and really

[2:34] it all goes to both of your hard work

[2:37] uh and dedication to not only to this

[2:40] city, but

[2:41] obviously to your family. Um and so,

[2:44] thank you for making a really big impact

[2:46] in our community. It's very much

[2:48] appreciated.

[2:51] Anyone else like to say anything?

[2:53] >> Uh sure. Congratulations for being the

[2:55] 2026 Small Business of the Year for

[2:58] California's ninth California's ninth

[3:00] Assembly District. Um I've had the

[3:04] um

[3:05] pleasure of knowing Megan and her family

[3:08] for a very long time. There's nothing

[3:09] that you cannot achieve. You've had your

[3:12] vision, you put put hard work to it, and

[3:15] you have achieved great things. Um and

[3:17] thank you for bringing that and keeping

[3:19] that in the town of Escalon. So,

[3:21] congratulations to you.

[3:23] >> So, I'm just going to read this

[3:25] certificate we have from the city for

[3:27] you.

[3:27] Um

[3:28] in recognition of being named the 2026

[3:31] Small Business of the year of the year

[3:33] for California's ninth Assembly

[3:35] District. Um this was uh founded by

[3:38] Derek and

[3:39] Megan Webb. Uh The Lumberyard Cellars

[3:41] has become a welcoming gathering place

[3:44] in the heart of Escalon. I always hear

[3:47] great things about what you have going

[3:49] on there.

[3:50] Um

[3:51] Through its commitment to quality

[3:53] hospitality community events and local

[3:56] product

[3:58] Lumberyard

[3:59] Sellers is exemplified the

[4:01] entrepreneurial spirit and community

[4:04] pride that makes Escalon special.

[4:07] This Escalon City Council probably

[4:09] congratulates the Lumberyard Sellers on

[4:12] this distinguished honor and express its

[4:14] sincere appreciation for its positive

[4:16] contributions to to the Escalon

[4:18] community. So want to say thank you and

[4:20] give you a round of applause at least.

[4:23] >> [applause]

[4:29] >> Would you either one of you like to come

[4:32] up or the little one?

[4:33] Come up and give a speech here or say

[4:35] something?

[4:40] » Yeah, we just want to thank the city of

[4:41] Escalon for all the support and

[4:43] continued support as we continue moving

[4:44] on through business and you know, it's

[4:46] been a fun 5 years and

[4:48] just look forward to continued success

[4:50] in Escalon and bringing more people to

[4:52] the community. So

[4:53] thank you.

[5:01] » [snorts]

[5:02] >> Do you want to say something?

[5:03] >> No.

[5:04] >> [laughter]

[5:38] [music]

[5:45] » Maybe that's a seller were they're

[5:46] partying, huh?

[5:47] >> [laughter]

[5:51] [applause]

[5:57] » So, we'll move on to the consent

[5:58] calendar.

[6:01] Uh Mr. Mayor, I'd like to abstain from

[6:04] item number two and pull number five.

[6:07] >> And pull number five, okay.

[6:11] Uh anyone else?

[6:14] Okay. In um

[6:16] in the audience, anyone want to pull any

[6:17] of these?

[6:21] Okay. Anyone online?

[6:25] >> No hands raised.

[6:26] >> Okay. We'll bring it back to the dais.

[6:29] Um you want to humor a motion on the

[6:32] others?

[6:33] >> Yeah, I'll motion to approve uh

[6:36] consent uh

[6:38] items uh

[6:39] two through four.

[6:41] >> Okay.

[6:42] We have a second?

[6:44] >> I'll second.

[6:45] >> Okay. All in favor, say I.

[6:48] >> I.

[6:49] >> All approve um

[6:50] sorry sorry. All uh against, say nay.

[6:54] No? Okay.

[6:57] So, we'll go to five.

[6:58] >> Yeah.

[6:59] >> What's your concern?

[7:00] >> I have no concern. Actually, quite the

[7:02] opposite. Um

[7:05] I have been

[7:07] talking about this for the last

[7:09] three plus years, almost four years.

[7:12] Um

[7:13] and I really want to give major props to

[7:17] uh Jaylen and to uh Justin

[7:21] and the city team for actually

[7:24] um

[7:25] really taking to heart uh the potential

[7:28] for design build projects. Uh it is the

[7:31] future of delivering both private and

[7:35] public construction projects um

[7:38] throughout the world, in particular in

[7:41] California,

[7:42] um

[7:43] and I I live in this world every day.

[7:47] And um if you go back and you look at

[7:49] historical records,

[7:53] um since

[7:55] 1957, the the city has spent an

[7:58] inordinate an amount of money on design

[8:01] fees.

[8:02] And the beauty of design-build is that

[8:05] now it's one contract. Uh for those of

[8:09] you that don't know design-build,

[8:11] there's one legal contract, they're one

[8:13] legal entity. Designer and the builder

[8:16] are the same legal entity, which

[8:18] actually uh allows for

[8:21] more streamlined project projects, more

[8:23] streamlined processes.

[8:25] And

[8:27] um

[8:28] like I said, the design-build is uh the

[8:32] way of the future.

[8:34] And so, uh kudos for uh

[8:38] adopting this conflict-of-interest

[8:39] policy, and I look forward to uh future

[8:43] design-build projects for the city of

[8:45] Escondido.

[8:46] So, thank you.

[8:50] » Um anyone else like to make a statement

[8:52] up here?

[8:54] Since it's pulled, anyone in the

[8:56] audience want to make a statement?

[8:58] No? We'll bring it back to online.

[9:00] >> With that, I move to approve consent out

[9:03] calendar item number five.

[9:05] >> Okay. Do we have a second?

[9:06] >> Second.

[9:08] >> All in favor, say aye.

[9:09] >> Aye.

[9:10] >> All opposed, say nay.

[9:11] Okay.

[9:13] We'll go on to staff communications. Uh

[9:17] We'll start with Chief Far, with Okay.

[9:21] » [snorts]

[9:24] » So, July was uh fairly uneventful. There

[9:27] was a train versus pedestrian crash on

[9:31] uh the BNSF tracks over by the

[9:34] or pier, and then we also had park feet.

[9:36] was fairly uneventful. We had

[9:38] one arrest uh on night one for public

[9:41] intoxication and then on night two a

[9:44] woman who

[9:45] attempted to get in the VIA with a fake

[9:47] ID.

[9:48] But other than that, not really a whole

[9:49] lot.

[9:51] A lot to speak of.

[9:52] Officer Meza and Officer Gunter were

[9:54] tied with the most arrests with seven

[9:57] and Officer Meza led the department in

[9:59] citations with 23.

[10:01] >> Good work. Um question for you. Maybe

[10:04] just a brain uh storm.

[10:07] Is there Do you think these train

[10:08] getting hit by the train scenario is

[10:10] more like someone giving up on life or

[10:12] we having accidents you think?

[10:15] Like is there some Is there some way we

[10:16] can potentially

[10:18] you know, mitigate that or do you think

[10:19] it's just it is what it is?

[10:22] >> Uh

[10:23] we've had in the last

[10:27] two years I want to say the last two or

[10:29] last two years I think we had three in

[10:31] the last two years.

[10:32] >> Yeah.

[10:32] >> And so

[10:34] two of them

[10:36] seem like accidents. Uh one of them

[10:38] seemed like it might not be as far as it

[10:40] could be a possible intentional act. Um

[10:45] so I'm not necessarily certain what the

[10:48] increase is, but yeah, I've

[10:50] >> Mhm.

[10:50] >> been here 21 years and the last three

[10:52] years we've had more than my entire

[10:54] previous career combined.

[10:56] >> Seems like a weird yeah, some sort of a

[10:59] I don't know how you necessarily fix

[11:00] that or not, but just something maybe

[11:03] brainstorm and

[11:05] maybe in the audience if you have any

[11:07] ideas.

[11:09] Anyways, that was my thought on it.

[11:11] >> Well, and and Mr. Mayor, to that point,

[11:13] you know, people always think um

[11:17] Yes, obviously these victims um

[11:21] no one deserves to lose their life, but

[11:24] we also have to take into account uh the

[11:26] rail road crews

[11:28] because the train is only going one

[11:31] direction. The train can't stop.

[11:33] And so, there are two victims and every

[11:37] or possibly [clears throat]

[11:39] three victims and every incident if you

[11:41] take into account the the train crews as

[11:44] well. So, it's a definitely a horrible

[11:46] problem all the way around. And for our

[11:49] police officers and first responders

[11:51] they have to

[11:52] deal with that as well. So,

[11:54] it's not a pleasant situation.

[11:57] >> Um

[11:58] hats off to you for having to deal with

[12:00] that, guys.

[12:01] Both public works as well.

[12:03] Um

[12:04] any other questions for Chief?

[12:09] Uh we'll go to

[12:11] uh public works.

[12:12] >> Uh nothing for public works tonight

[12:13] unless you have any questions.

[12:15] >> Any questions for public works?

[12:17] >> Sure. What's up with VSS?

[12:20] >> They're completed at this point. So,

[12:22] that's what we're sticking with.

[12:24] >> On

[12:25] >> Sir.

[12:25] >> And what's the status of AT&T?

[12:29] >> And they're [clears throat] going to be

[12:29] we're getting ready to resubmit another

[12:31] permit going through the conditions that

[12:33] we had met with them. So, hopefully here

[12:35] in the next week they'll get start back

[12:36] up, but there'll be very strict rules on

[12:38] what they can and can't do.

[12:40] Um we'll have more inspectors on-site

[12:42] provided by AT&T and just a lot more

[12:44] babysitting.

[12:46] >> And will the when are they now

[12:47] anticipating being done and complete as

[12:50] well?

[12:50] >> There's no anticipation date at the

[12:52] moment just because we haven't gave them

[12:54] the the permit to go ahead and proceed.

[12:57] I don't think it's going to be a whole

[12:58] lot of time. Should be about a month

[13:00] process once they get going as far as

[13:01] rehabilitating everything. So, hopefully

[13:03] we can get them in and out of here

[13:04] quick.

[13:05] >> Yeah.

[13:07] >> Just to fill in the gaps a little bit

[13:08] there. Um

[13:10] I think they did hit a a third water

[13:12] line recently and and we had some

[13:14] significant questions on how and whether

[13:16] they were doing some potholing. Um so,

[13:19] we we stopped the job. We met with them.

[13:22] Um they brought some facts to it, but uh

[13:25] we have implemented some new rules.

[13:27] We're reviewing those rules right now.

[13:29] Um reviewing their response to the rules

[13:32] that we've established and we will

[13:34] reissue um the permit when, you know,

[13:37] we're comfortable that they will address

[13:39] things as as we see fit. Um they have

[13:43] been um positive about the changes and,

[13:46] you know, their

[13:48] approach moving forward, which is a good

[13:50] sign. Um but we will we will stay on it

[13:53] to ensure we protect the infrastructure

[13:54] of the city.

[13:58] » Any other questions?

[14:02] Back to city manager.

[14:04] Or Trevin, sorry.

[14:06] >> Yeah, sorry. I'm over here this time,

[14:07] so.

[14:08] >> [laughter]

[14:08] >> Thank you. I'll start with the

[14:10] recreation update. Um we've had a great

[14:12] um registration for flag football, so

[14:14] that continues to be a strong program.

[14:17] And summer recreation programming

[14:19] continues to to show strong

[14:20] participation with soccer. Um we did

[14:23] move the date for evaluations, so if

[14:26] you're a parent listening, just know

[14:27] that we're going to move that closer to

[14:29] the draft date to accommodate one of the

[14:31] high school's schedules.

[14:33] Um for adult soccer, this is a new

[14:35] program that the city has put on, as

[14:37] you're aware. And one of the hurdles is

[14:39] with a new program, you don't you don't

[14:41] really know if you're going to get

[14:42] enough participation. So, please report

[14:44] that we got three teams this year, which

[14:46] is enough to have a league, to have a

[14:48] program, and for everybody to have some

[14:50] fun. So, we we passed that hurdle as a

[14:52] community and we'll report back um mid

[14:56] midway through the league to report how

[14:58] it's going.

[14:59] Um and then for the community center, we

[15:01] were working with someone to lease the

[15:04] kitchen space. This was a new venture

[15:06] for the city to try and use the

[15:07] commercial kitchen more often and help

[15:10] uh cut the cottage food industry or

[15:11] someone who's working out of their house

[15:13] be able to utilize the the kitchen

[15:15] there. Um it does require them to carry

[15:18] their own insurance um liability. Um so,

[15:21] if there's anyone else out there that is

[15:23] willing to do that and wants to work

[15:25] with us, just let me know. Happy to work

[15:28] with them to help them get that set up.

[15:30] The first person that originally wanted

[15:32] to use it

[15:34] um hasn't gotten back in touch with us.

[15:36] It seems the insurance might have been

[15:37] something holding them back or might

[15:39] take them more time to do. So, we're

[15:41] available. We got all the kinks worked

[15:43] out, all the application stuff smoothed

[15:45] out. So, we're now ready to go. We just

[15:47] need someone to test the process with

[15:49] us.

[15:50] >> Okay.

[15:51] >> Um and for development services, um we

[15:54] continue to see

[15:56] uh normal permit activity.

[15:59] Um nothing crazy.

[16:01] Um

[16:01] and we do have an item on tonight where

[16:03] we'll talk a little bit more about that.

[16:04] So, that's that's all I have for

[16:06] tonight. Thank you.

[16:07] >> Okay.

[16:08] Any questions for Trevor?

[16:10] >> I've got one. Is there anyone that may

[16:12] have applied for our grants that may be

[16:15] interested in using that kitchen space?

[16:17] Somebody that may be a good fit from

[16:18] there?

[16:19] Have you run run down that list, I

[16:20] guess, is the uh the real question that

[16:22] I'm asking?

[16:23] >> Yeah, I know. It's a great question. We

[16:24] can certainly do that. Um good timing to

[16:26] ask that question to them because we

[16:28] just asked them for their mandatory

[16:30] 6-month update. So, we'll be hosting uh

[16:33] meetings with them to touch base and any

[16:35] of them that do food prep, we'll make

[16:36] sure to let them

[16:37] >> Not necessarily one of the recipients,

[16:39] but you know, any of the applicants

[16:40] even. You know, they're they're all

[16:41] looking for, you know, expansion. You

[16:43] know, that's a good way for a food

[16:45] service to expand without um

[16:47] very aggressive cost, I would think. So.

[16:49] >> Yeah. Makes sense.

[16:53] » All right. Any other questions?

[16:56] No. We'll go back to city manager.

[16:59] >> Nothing further.

[17:00] >> Okay.

[17:01] Any questions for city manager?

[17:04] Questions for Frank?

[17:07] No?

[17:07] >> Okay. We'll take it out to the audience.

[17:10] Uh any questions for staff at all?

[17:13] No? Online?

[17:18] » Nothing online.

[17:19] All right, we'll bring it back

[17:21] to matters presented from the audience.

[17:24] Excuse me. [clears throat] The public

[17:25] may comment on any matter not listed on

[17:28] the agenda that is within the city of Escalon subject matter

[17:32] jurisdiction. Members of the public may

[17:34] address the city council on any agenda

[17:37] item when that item is called for

[17:39] consideration. Each speaker is limited

[17:41] to 5 minutes and unused time may not be

[17:44] transferred to another speaker. Speakers

[17:46] may provide their name and address for

[17:48] the record but are not required to do

[17:50] so. Under state law, the city council

[17:53] generally may not discuss or take action

[17:55] on matters that are not listed on the

[17:56] agenda

[17:58] except to provide a brief response. If

[18:01] further action is warranted, the matter

[18:03] may be referred to staff or placed on a

[18:05] future agenda. The mayor has discretion

[18:08] to determine whether a matter is within

[18:10] the city's subject matter jurisdiction.

[18:13] That being said, we have any matters

[18:15] from the audience?

[18:22] » Yes, good afternoon everybody. Uh my

[18:24] name is Michael Masuda. I came here to

[18:26] introduce myself this evening. I'm

[18:27] running for Congress in the California

[18:29] 5th Congressional District. Oh, I I uh I

[18:32] live in Riverbank, so just across the

[18:33] river.

[18:34] Um I actually grew up in Amador County.

[18:37] I remember coming down this way in the

[18:39] preseason for baseball and basketball uh

[18:42] to play against Escalon High School. You

[18:43] all always had a good teams over here

[18:46] and so I'm hoping that that's continued

[18:47] on. Um I went to after I graduated from

[18:51] high school, I went to college at Cal

[18:52] Poly in San Luis Obispo for a degree in electrical engineering. And I took

[18:57] that out uh to the Washington D.C. area

[19:00] to start a career over there with my

[19:02] wife uh working in defense research. And

[19:04] I made my way into the federal

[19:06] government working as a public servant

[19:08] at the State Department. And uh now I

[19:11] came back home to California to run for

[19:13] Congress to be close to my family. I got

[19:15] two kids in tow with me since coming

[19:18] back. I've got a 4-year-old and a

[19:19] 2-year-old. And I'm very focused on

[19:22] building communities, a state, a country

[19:26] that

[19:27] my kids have an opportunity where

[19:29] they're treated fairly, where they're

[19:30] treated with respect. And that's

[19:32] something that all of our kids can have

[19:34] for them.

[19:35] I really believe that

[19:37] these roles are focused on service and

[19:40] that it's actually service to all of you

[19:42] and all the members of the community.

[19:44] I am not going to be the one that tells

[19:46] you all how to do your job, right?

[19:48] That's not what the a congressman is

[19:51] supposed to do.

[19:52] I really want to work with you all to

[19:53] understand what city of Escalon needs

[19:56] and how I can be of service to all of

[19:58] you at the federal level.

[20:01] I know the federal government doesn't

[20:02] have all the answers and it shouldn't

[20:03] have all the answers. But there's a lot

[20:05] of resources and things that need to

[20:07] happen at the federal level that can

[20:08] make things much easier and can help

[20:11] address some of the challenges that you

[20:12] all are facing in this community.

[20:15] So I'm here today to just introduce

[20:16] myself. Going forward, I would love to

[20:18] sit down with with any all of you at

[20:20] some point individually, of course,

[20:23] and other members from the community to

[20:24] understand what are some of the

[20:26] challenges that you all are facing and

[20:28] what you're looking for in your next

[20:29] congressman.

[20:31] I did want to mention that

[20:33] Escalon and this portion of San Joaquin

[20:35] County are has been added to the fifth

[20:38] district

[20:39] with the redistricting in in California

[20:41] with Prop 50. It is one of 12 counties

[20:45] either in whole or in part that now make

[20:47] up the fifth district. It goes all the

[20:49] way to the Nevada border from Alpine

[20:50] County down to Death Valley in Inyo

[20:52] County. It covers this whole swath of

[20:54] the Sierra Nevada from Eldorado all the

[20:56] way down to Fresno County and it touches

[20:58] the Central Valley here in Stanislaus

[21:00] County and Madera County and also in

[21:02] Fresno County. This district is the size

[21:04] of West Virginia. And so

[21:07] it's very easy, I think, for a or

[21:11] it makes it very difficult to get around

[21:12] at times. But, I firmly believe that

[21:14] showing up, talking with folks,

[21:16] listening, trying to understand

[21:17] challenges, and trying to go to work on

[21:19] those challenges is what this job is all

[21:21] about. So, as we move forward, I will

[21:24] continue to be available to you. I have

[21:26] passed out one business card already,

[21:28] but I'll make sure that you have my

[21:29] contact information. I also wanted to

[21:31] invite all of you and any members from

[21:34] the community that are here or watching

[21:36] online. We are doing a town hall in

[21:39] Oakdale on the 11th of September at the

[21:41] senior center there.

[21:43] I really want to bring in a lot of

[21:45] communities,

[21:46] Escalon, Riverbank, of course Oakdale

[21:48] and Knights Ferry to to come and talk,

[21:51] share your share your your thoughts, ask

[21:54] your questions. It's going to be from

[21:55] 6:00 to 8:00 and the whole community,

[21:59] bring your kids, everybody is welcome to

[22:01] be part of this.

[22:03] So,

[22:03] if there are any questions at any point,

[22:06] you can go to my website votemasuda.com.

[22:08] There's an email on there or you know,

[22:10] I'll be sticking around here for a

[22:11] little while to to chat after after the

[22:13] meeting. So, thank you so much for your

[22:15] time. I really appreciate it.

[22:17] >> Thank you as well.

[22:19] A breath a breath of fresh air to

[22:21] actually see a congressman here.

[22:23] Um

[22:24] So, thank you.

[22:27] >> Oh.

[22:28] Anyone else have a There we go.

[22:30] >> Of course.

[22:32] Um first of all,

[22:34] I have a

[22:36] almost 4-year-old granddaughter that is

[22:38] going to have a

[22:39] lemonade stand tomorrow specifically for

[22:42] city workers.

[22:43] And it's going to be from noon to 1:00

[22:46] and her price is free to city workers.

[22:49] So, they need to come and

[22:52] say hello to her. She especially would

[22:54] like to see the street sweeper.

[22:57] >> [laughter]

[22:58] >> Uh anyway,

[22:59] >> Sure. Sure.

[23:00] >> All right. All right. Public work and our officers too cuz she got to

[23:03] visit the

[23:05] outside you know the the foyer of the

[23:07] police department last week and she

[23:09] thought that was the greatest thing. So

[23:11] maybe we can work on her saying

[23:12] something else. Anyway, she

[23:13] [clears throat] just thought that was

[23:14] great. So if you all would just come

[23:16] humor her, she made homemade lemonade

[23:19] from softest lemons and with honey and

[23:22] water. So you know, it's kind of

[23:23] healthy.

[23:25] >> Well, what time

[23:25] >> little tart.

[23:27] >> [laughter]

[23:28] >> What's your What's your um What time?

[23:31] >> Noon to 1.

[23:32] Well, she'll be Are you kidding? If you

[23:34] knock on the door, she'll be there. So

[23:36] >> [laughter]

[23:37] >> I mean you know, she's not going to turn

[23:38] you away.

[23:39] Oh, anyway, she's she's cute. Oh.

[23:43] >> Location, somebody asked.

[23:45] >> On Sacramento Street?

[23:46] Can't miss us. You

[23:48] won't miss us.

[23:49] A big white house. Big white house,

[23:51] flagpole.

[23:53] No line.

[23:54] >> Street.

[23:54] >> Right in front of the high school, three

[23:56] houses down, right?

[23:57] >> It's 1325 Sacramento.

[23:59] >> All right. If you're anybody else other

[24:01] than in the city and and same place and our police officers, well you'll

[24:05] have to pay her. Sorry, just saying.

[24:07] Okay.

[24:08] Um

[24:12] I love history. You all know that. I

[24:14] love There's There's three subjects that

[24:15] you know really greatly Well, there's

[24:17] many subjects that greatly I love as my

[24:20] children and grandchildren all say, "Oh,

[24:22] I say Oh, that's my favorite." And

[24:24] they're like, "They're all your

[24:25] favorites." Well, yeah, they are. So

[24:27] one of them though is history. And going

[24:30] back to the roots and going back to our

[24:33] roots and the blessings of our country,

[24:35] the blessings of our state, the

[24:36] blessings of our city.

[24:39] Um

[24:41] I'm pretty sure the majority of the

[24:42] people in this room have no idea that

[24:44] there is only one state in the United

[24:46] States of America whose Constitution

[24:49] mentions and asks for the blessing of

[24:51] almighty God. Any guesses as to what

[24:53] state that would be? It'll shock you.

[24:55] It's ours.

[24:57] It's our state and our preamble.

[24:59] It appeals to almighty God for blessing

[25:02] and to keep us on the straight and

[25:03] narrow. I think we could maybe start

[25:05] praying that.

[25:07] Um

[25:08] So, I wanted to go back and look at

[25:10] something that I thought was really a

[25:11] really interesting. And the first

[25:12] Continental Congress in um September

[25:15] 7th, 1774. You know, we just had our

[25:17] 250th anniversary, right? Very short.

[25:20] It's really short. It'll be less than my

[25:22] 5 minutes, I promise.

[25:24] Um So, the first prayer of the

[25:25] Continental Congress and I thought it

[25:27] could

[25:28] benefit us.

[25:30] It says, "Oh Lord, our heavenly Father,

[25:31] high and mighty King of kings and Lord

[25:33] of lords, who dost from thy throne" It's

[25:35] old English.

[25:37] "Behold all the dwellers on earth and

[25:39] reignest with power supreme and

[25:41] uncontrolled over all the kingdoms,

[25:43] empires, and governments. Look down in

[25:45] mercy." I think we could use that. "We

[25:47] beseech thee on these our American

[25:49] states who have fled to thee from the

[25:51] rod of thy oppressor and thrown

[25:53] themselves on thy gracious protection,

[25:56] desiring to be henceforth dependent only

[25:58] on thee.

[26:00] And to thee, you,

[26:02] have they appealed

[26:04] for the righteousness of their cause. To

[26:06] thee do they now look up for that

[26:07] countenance and support which thou only

[26:09] canst give.

[26:11] Take them therefore, heavenly Father,

[26:13] under thy nurturing care. Give them

[26:14] wisdom and counsel.

[26:16] We're a council, right?

[26:18] I pray wisdom for you guys. And valor in

[26:20] the field. Defeat the malicious designs

[26:23] of our cruel adversaries. Convince them

[26:24] of the unrighteousness of their cause.

[26:26] And if they persist in their sanguinary

[26:28] purposes

[26:30] of own unerring justice sounding in

[26:32] their hearts, constrain them to drop the

[26:34] weapons of war from their unnerved hands

[26:36] in the day of battle. Be thou present,

[26:38] oh God of wisdom, and direct the

[26:39] councils of this honorable assembly. I'm

[26:42] hoping this is an honorable assembly. I

[26:43] know you all pretty well. I think you

[26:45] are.

[26:46] Enable them to settle things on the best

[26:48] and surest foundation

[26:50] that the scene of blood may be speedily

[26:52] that order, harmony, and peace may be

[26:54] effectively restored, and truth and

[26:56] justice, religion and piety prevail and

[26:58] flourish amongst the people.

[27:00] Preserve the health of their bodies, and

[27:02] I would like to extend that to this

[27:04] body,

[27:05] and vigor of their minds. Shower down on

[27:07] them the millions they here represent.

[27:10] Okay, well, Escalante's maybe only a few

[27:11] thousand, but that's okay.

[27:13] Such temporal blessings as thou seest

[27:15] expedient for them in this world, and

[27:17] crown them with everlasting glory in the

[27:18] world to come. And all of this we ask in

[27:20] the name to the merits of Jesus Christ,

[27:22] son and our savior. Amen. That was

[27:24] Reverend Jacob Duché, rector of Christ

[27:27] Church on September 7th, 1774.

[27:30] But you know, those words still ring

[27:31] true.

[27:32] And once they're released into the

[27:34] atmosphere and the frequency, oh, I took

[27:36] more than my 5 minutes, sorry. Um,

[27:38] they still permeate, so

[27:40] may you all have wisdom tonight.

[27:42] >> Thank you.

[27:43] for the kind words.

[27:46] Um, anyone else like to say anything?

[27:56] » Good evening.

[27:57] Um, I'm happy to be here, especially in

[28:00] Escalante.

[28:01] My wife and I just moved here in uh

[28:04] January of 2024, and I'm and she is

[28:08] absolutely thrilled to be here.

[28:10] It's the best little community ever, so

[28:12] I hope everyone here appreciates what

[28:14] you have, cuz it's awesome.

[28:16] Uh, the other thing I wanted to talk to

[28:17] you about, and by the way, my name is

[28:19] Travis Clement, and my wife is Connie

[28:22] Clement. We live over here in uh

[28:25] Country Wood Estates. So, Country Wood

[28:27] Estates is what I wanted to ask you

[28:28] about, and it's the assessment.

[28:31] And I was wondering, has anyone ever

[28:32] tried to do this assessment increase

[28:35] since it was originally put into place?

[28:38] Why did it get turned down?

[28:40] Uh,

[28:41] you know, do you have any insight on

[28:42] that?

[28:45] » You want to give a brief overview? I question real quick?

[28:49] Are Are you asking about the park

[28:51] improvements or are you talking about

[28:52] the annual

[28:52] >> park improvements, the lighting,

[28:54] uh fix-ups and stuff that's needed, the

[28:56] fence that's

[28:57] falling apart.

[28:58] >> You need to just call timeout cuz we

[29:00] will get into that in the public

[29:02] hearing.

[29:03] >> Oh, okay.

[29:03] >> next agenda item.

[29:05] >> Sounds all right. That's fair.

[29:06] >> That's Bill Eltara, though.

[29:07] >> I think we're probably okay to go ahead

[29:08] and

[29:08] >> Just give a brief response.

[29:09] >> Yeah, if he's talking about the park,

[29:11] the Swanson Park uh improvement, then

[29:14] that was voted on prior.

[29:16] Assume you're talking about the Yeah,

[29:18] okay.

[29:18] >> Okay, my apologies. I thought you were

[29:20] talking about the overall assessment.

[29:22] >> No, no, just for the country club.

[29:24] >> Um actually, that same neighborhood had,

[29:27] I think,

[29:28] 2013, 2014 had voted in to install the

[29:33] playground that is now there. So, they

[29:35] had gone through that process um several

[29:37] years ago. I think what we heard from

[29:40] this particular vote is um the

[29:43] neighborhood to the north, south?

[29:48] >> South side that's not

[29:49] >> The neighborhood to the south doesn't

[29:51] >> Yeah, doesn't, right? The neighborhood

[29:53] to the south um is not part of the

[29:56] district and therefore isn't paying into

[29:58] the district. Um and so there was some

[30:01] views on inequity in that regard. Um

[30:05] what we also heard, there was many who

[30:07] probably no longer have children and and

[30:10] didn't

[30:11] wouldn't benefit from the services as

[30:13] much as uh those who did. Um so, that

[30:16] was, I think, what we mostly heard in

[30:18] terms of why it was voted down this

[30:21] time.

[30:22] >> Okay, I can understand that. And the

[30:24] thing for me is no children here for us,

[30:27] you know, ours are long gone and and uh

[30:30] no grandkids or anything to bring to

[30:32] play, but I know kids need place to play

[30:35] and need to keep it nice, and it is

[30:37] nice, and I want it to stay that way.

[30:40] And uh so, I I voted for the assessment.

[30:43] And even though it was kind of a huge

[30:45] jump from 0.03 for us to 1,000, but

[30:48] I think it's worth it. And uh

[30:50] I I understand, you know, people

[30:52] thinking it's not fair if they're not

[30:54] uh people who are there benefiting or

[30:56] are not being assessed. So, I get it.

[31:00] Thank you for the insight on that.

[31:03] Thank you again for having such a

[31:04] beautiful city for us to come to.

[31:06] >> Welcome to the city.

[31:06] >> Yeah, welcome to the city, Travis.

[31:08] You said Clements, right?

[31:10] >> Yes.

[31:10] >> Got you.

[31:17] Uh anyone else like to make a uh

[31:19] statement or say something?

[31:31] » My name's Kurt Paulus. I've been born

[31:33] and raised here in Escalon. I graduated

[31:35] in 1978, and I'm here to offer a

[31:39] proposal caretaker on the property that

[31:42] you the city bought from the Varos, the

[31:45] 19.2 acres next to the community center.

[31:51] And in my interest in this is where my

[31:53] family, we owned that property for a

[31:55] total of 72 years, which my grandfather

[31:59] and then my father, they don't when we

[32:00] sold it to the Varos.

[32:03] Where I'm a single guy, and there's a

[32:05] little unit in the house where what my

[32:08] proposal is

[32:09] I have three folders here that

[32:12] I could hand out to where you could take

[32:13] a look and get an idea, and I'd come

[32:16] back and tell you

[32:17] where, you know, my deal connects.

[32:29] There There's pictures in the folder

[32:32] that I just took yesterday of uh

[32:36] Just how it looks, you know, the property out

[32:39] in front, the weeds and everything. And

[32:42] my proposal is just to keep it clean.

[32:45] And

[32:45] nice

[32:46] good-looking for there's the small unit

[32:49] in the very back. This is a real small

[32:50] unit. It's two rooms and it has a

[32:55] bathroom and stuff and that's what my

[32:57] offer is for taking care of property.

[33:00] And that's

[33:02] pretty much my proposal, you know, where

[33:04] I just

[33:06] um watch over it

[33:08] till the time came of

[33:10] there and I put an agreement in here

[33:12] where uh

[33:14] I'm not very good at this, but yeah, I

[33:16] put an agreement where if you needed me

[33:18] to go or it was like just give me 30

[33:20] days or whatever, but

[33:22] I've been a long time residents of here,

[33:24] never been in trouble in my life and I'm

[33:27] so I just like to could you look at it

[33:31] and cons- consider it.

[33:33] >> All right. We'll definitely consider it.

[33:35] We'll have to read through your proposal

[33:37] and

[33:37] >> All righty.

[33:38] >> I think no one up here is probably

[33:40] against

[33:41] >> Uh-huh.

[33:42] >> speak for everyone, but probably against

[33:43] uh reading your proposal and seeing what

[33:45] you

[33:46] and you're asking for.

[33:47] >> Okay. Thank you.

[33:48] >> No problem.

[33:51] » [clears throat]

[33:54] » Uh anyone else?

[33:57] No. Okay, we'll go online.

[34:00] Okay.

[34:02] Back to dais.

[34:04] All right. We'll go to public hearings

[34:06] now and start with seven.

[34:08] >> [snorts]

[34:14] » May I introduce it?

[34:15] >> Thank you, Mayor. Uh so this is

[34:18] a continuation of the public hearing to

[34:19] confirm the engineer's report and

[34:21] ordering the levy of assessments for

[34:23] next fiscal year 2026-2027 for all of

[34:26] the assessment districts, which includes

[34:28] the Bella Terra Estates, the uh Estates

[34:31] Benefit Assessment District, Estates

[34:33] Landscaping and Lighting

[34:35] Maintenance District, Sunrise Terrace,

[34:37] and Westwood Country Landscape and

[34:39] Lighting Maintenance District. Um

[34:44] Uh

[34:45] as you as we went through a lot of the

[34:47] details in the last meeting, um this is

[34:50] like I mentioned is a continuation. It

[34:51] requires two um public hearings in order

[34:54] to move this forward. It is the annual

[34:57] um assessments. So, unlike the other

[34:59] item that was discussed and not to

[35:02] confuse it with that one, this is for

[35:04] the annual ongoing maintenance, not for

[35:06] any upgraded improvements or anything

[35:09] like that. Um it's a routine but

[35:11] essential action to fund the various

[35:13] different components of the

[35:15] neighborhoods, um which is uh in

[35:18] includes landscaping, lighting, and

[35:20] maintenance, uh wood fences, chain link

[35:23] fences, drainage basins, um all of the

[35:25] things that keep the neighborhoods safe

[35:27] and operating. Um the engineers' reports

[35:31] that are attached to each one of these

[35:33] um districts confirmed all of the costs

[35:36] required for the assessments for the

[35:38] next fiscal year. Um every year those

[35:40] engineers' reports are um re- reviewed

[35:44] and edited and uh starting with this

[35:46] year we're providing the redline

[35:48] versions of you so you can see if any

[35:49] changes were made um to the budget or

[35:52] any of the descriptions or histories um

[35:55] for the for each district.

[35:58] Um so, these uh assessment districts

[36:00] ensure neighborhood landscaping and

[36:01] lighting are properly funded and they

[36:03] provide the legal and financial basis

[36:05] for the levies. Um so, with that the

[36:08] recommendation is to go ahead and uh

[36:10] conduct the public hearing, hear from

[36:12] anybody that wants to discuss it, and

[36:14] then adopt the resolutions to confirm

[36:16] the engineers' reports.

[36:18] >> Thank you, manager.

[36:19] >> Yeah, and I'll just add one note. Uh we

[36:20] did, as Trevor mentioned, continue this

[36:22] item from the July 20th meeting. At that

[36:25] time we discovered that the additional

[36:27] uh outreach and notification to each

[36:30] resident within each property owner

[36:32] within the districts was not completed.

[36:35] Um this is something that we had added

[36:37] uh this year based on council uh

[36:40] direction to really provide as much

[36:44] information as possible to the

[36:46] residents. And so one of the things that

[36:48] we added was of course this notice of

[36:50] the public hearing that's uh happening

[36:52] tonight. But also we put in a line item

[36:56] um expenditure report for everything

[37:00] that is spent in each district. So every

[37:02] monthly uh utility bill, every every

[37:05] monthly water bill, uh every monthly

[37:07] landscaping bill, we put it all in there

[37:10] to show the residents exactly um what

[37:13] their assessment is made up of and they

[37:16] can compare that expense report to this

[37:18] new assessment and show kind of where

[37:21] we're at and and how we got there.

[37:24] Um so that was something we we added

[37:25] new. Again, we uh had not um completed

[37:28] that prior to the July 20th meeting and

[37:31] so we continued that until today.

[37:34] >> Okay.

[37:35] Well, uh thank you for the transparency.

[37:38] I think

[37:39] um

[37:40] you guys have been doing a great job

[37:42] kind of

[37:43] more and more

[37:45] allowing the citizens to see, you know,

[37:48] how everything plays out behind the

[37:49] scenes. So it's really appreciated. Um

[37:53] So um

[37:55] Anyone want to say anything up here

[37:57] before I go to the citizens first or

[38:00] I have some questions for the consultant

[38:02] but I'll wait.

[38:03] >> Okay.

[38:05] We'll go out this time and see if

[38:08] anyone from the public would like to

[38:10] make a comment on number seven.

[38:21] » Hi.

[38:23] My name is Loretta Borbazon. I live in

[38:25] the Bella Terra state.

[38:28] Um my understanding I did see the

[38:31] what the gentleman stated, the breakdown

[38:33] of everything, the cost, $101,000

[38:36] divided by 143

[38:39] homes would cost me $700 extra every

[38:43] year.

[38:43] I don't mind as long as it looks nice

[38:45] and neat. I was out there today. I've

[38:47] seen weeds out there, dry spots.

[38:50] I have pictures to prove it. I mean, if

[38:53] I'm going to pay this extra money, I

[38:55] expect everything to be tip-top shape.

[38:58] And I'm wondering why.

[39:00] >> Okay.

[39:02] You want to um actually probably public

[39:04] works.

[39:05] >> Yeah, that's that's funny she brings

[39:06] that up. Just in communication I met

[39:07] with Grover over there today. Um they

[39:10] were having some issues with some of the

[39:11] sprinkler system. Change out a few

[39:12] sprinklers in the next few days. They

[39:13] will be addressing that. She's exactly

[39:15] right. Yeah, the park uh itself right

[39:17] now is not acceptable. There's lots of

[39:19] dry areas, but we are aware of it.

[39:20] Grover's addressing that as we speak.

[39:22] >> There are weeds, too. They're not

[39:24] pulling the weeds. They're not pulling

[39:26] the weeds in the cement. They're not

[39:27] pulling the weeds in the park.

[39:29] >> We'll definitely address that.

[39:30] >> Okay.

[39:31] >> Loretta, would you um mind reporting

[39:33] back?

[39:34] >> No, not at all.

[39:35] >> Sounds good.

[39:36] >> Okay. Thank you very much.

[39:38] You want to deduct my bill? I'd be more

[39:40] than happy to.

[39:40] >> [laughter]

[39:44] » Um anyone else?

[39:47] No? Okay.

[39:49] We'll bring back the dais. Actually,

[39:51] sorry, online first.

[39:53] >> Um no.

[39:55] >> Dias?

[39:55] >> No hands raised online.

[39:56] >> Councilman

[39:58] >> I had a question.

[39:59] >> Yeah, do we have our consultant here?

[40:01] >> We do.

[40:02] >> Can we please invite him or her to the

[40:05] podium?

[40:06] >> Her, and her name is Melanie.

[40:07] >> Okay.

[40:08] >> And she's online.

[40:09] >> Okay.

[40:10] Uh good evening, Melanie. Um in

[40:12] reviewing these, um

[40:15] is street sweeping included for all of

[40:19] the uh

[40:20] LLDs and FY 2026-27 as a cost?

[40:26] » So, when we looked at So, sorry.

[40:29] Let me start from the beginning. Go

[40:30] back. Hi, my name is Melanie Lee. I'm

[40:32] with consultant with SCI Consulting

[40:34] Group and we are the new LMD

[40:36] administrators for the city's um um for

[40:39] LL um LLMDs and the one benefit

[40:43] assessment district. Um for the Indian

[40:46] Street report, the um Estates benefit

[40:49] assessment district is the only one that

[40:50] specifically calls out the street

[40:52] sweeping in a line item budget in the

[40:54] engineer's report, whereas the other

[40:57] ones have it included under professional

[40:59] services. And if you um look at the back

[41:02] of the engineer's report where there's

[41:04] an appendix, they will have um

[41:06] specifically the street sweeping um

[41:09] uh

[41:10] expenditures in that part of the um the

[41:13] engineer's report.

[41:15] >> Okay, so they are

[41:18] the street sweeping is accounted for in

[41:20] the LLMD costs, correct?

[41:23] >> Yes, if it's in the expenditures um

[41:25] report that was provided, it is.

[41:27] >> Okay, so

[41:29] um

[41:32] I I I have I take exception with some of

[41:35] these costs. Um they're very real costs

[41:39] and and I'm not arguing that they're

[41:41] 100% real costs. I mean, I will say uh

[41:44] as the mayor alluded to, the accounting

[41:47] and the reports that we are getting uh

[41:50] for actual costs are very real and it's

[41:52] very understandable.

[41:55] And but that being said, the the intent

[41:58] of an LLMD is to provide

[42:01] uh special benefits to those residents

[42:03] within the LLMD um and it's specific

[42:07] specifically noted

[42:09] the special benefits associated with

[42:11] local landscaping improvements are

[42:13] specifically

[42:15] enhanced desirability of properties due

[42:17] to proximity and accessibility of the

[42:19] improvements,

[42:21] improved aesthetic appeal provided by a

[42:23] positive representation of the

[42:25] development, neighborhood, and the

[42:26] community,

[42:28] improved accessibility for emergency

[42:30] vehicles, and reduced vandalism and

[42:33] other criminal activity.

[42:36] If I'm going through and I'm looking at

[42:39] some of these costs,

[42:41] um

[42:43] I don't know. I I take exception to

[42:48] the LLMDs

[42:50] because the grass at Sanchez Park is the

[42:52] same color green that's currently at

[42:55] Shadowood Park.

[42:57] The masonry wall that is at Brentwood

[43:00] Estates

[43:01] is the same Brent same masonry wall that

[43:04] currently surrounds

[43:06] Bellaterra.

[43:08] And

[43:11] I understand we have to cover the costs.

[43:13] That's our job as council to ensure that

[43:17] the

[43:18] community or the city remains

[43:20] financially solvent.

[43:22] But as we witnessed uh

[43:25] when with the 218 vote that came before

[43:28] us

[43:29] regarding the improvements of um

[43:32] >> [snorts]

[43:33] >> What's what What's this park?

[43:35] >> Swanson With Swanson Park,

[43:38] I I believe that the

[43:42] it's almost getting to the point where

[43:44] um

[43:45] the LLMDs are pitting neighbor against

[43:48] neighbor.

[43:49] Uh we we have an audience member

[43:52] uh in the audience tonight that when the

[43:55] discussion came up regarding the

[43:57] improvements at Swanson Park,

[44:00] um he specifically

[44:03] told

[44:04] the council,

[44:06] "I'm not paying for those. I will pay

[44:08] for those improvements,

[44:10] but they have to belong to the LLMD.

[44:13] And essentially, what we have is

[44:17] and I understand it's a choice. You

[44:20] decided to move into that neighborhood.

[44:22] You decided to take on this extra cost.

[44:25] However,

[44:27] I did an informal poll

[44:29] uh of residents in all of the LLMDs.

[44:34] I asked them one simple question.

[44:37] Explain to me the the special benefits

[44:39] that you get from living in an LLMD.

[44:43] And five out of five people said,

[44:47] "Not a damn thing."

[44:50] So,

[44:52] but it it's our job to make sure that

[44:54] the city stays financially solvent. If

[44:57] we vote this down,

[44:59] then the lights go off. Then the grass

[45:01] grows.

[45:03] The that uh

[45:05] to uh what the lady said previously,

[45:09] then we have even more weeds.

[45:11] But I think we as a council

[45:14] really need to look at

[45:17] what we're doing for LLMDs

[45:20] moving forward.

[45:22] Because now, what you have is you're

[45:25] pitting neighbor against neighbor.

[45:28] The people that live within the LLMDs

[45:31] don't understand the benefits that

[45:33] they're getting.

[45:35] Um

[45:36] question for the

[45:38] actually, city manager wasn't here, but

[45:40] so question for public works. When we

[45:42] put the uh backstop in at Shadowwood

[45:45] Park, did that trigger a 218 vote?

[45:48] >> I do not believe so.

[45:50] >> So, how did we charge

[45:53] the residents of Bella Terra for

[45:56] to repair a back charge or a back but

[45:59] backstop

[46:00] >> [snorts]

[46:00] >> that they never never even proved to be

[46:02] put to put in in the first place.

[46:06] And additionally, the reason I asked the

[46:07] question about street sweeping

[46:10] is I live on here 70th Avenue.

[46:13] Street sweeping to me

[46:15] is part of the taxes that I pay.

[46:20] If you ask those same residents on

[46:21] California California Street, guess

[46:23] what?

[46:25] They're paying for street sweeping.

[46:27] So, I I'm imploring the council and

[46:31] staff

[46:33] that we seriously need to look at

[46:36] what we're doing for LLMDs moving

[46:39] forward.

[46:40] Because if our residents aren't

[46:42] understanding and can't appreciate the

[46:45] special benefit

[46:47] that they're getting,

[46:50] why do we even have LLMDs in the first

[46:52] place?

[46:55] That's all I want to say.

[46:58] >> Well, I'd [clears throat] say

[46:59] um

[47:01] personally, I would think you need to

[47:03] maybe formulate the some more specifics.

[47:07] Uh

[47:08] that way if there is something that's

[47:10] being lost in translation, it can be

[47:11] translated.

[47:13] As well as uh

[47:15] you know,

[47:16] the understanding of of why, I think, is

[47:20] important. Um

[47:22] Other than that, I think,

[47:25] you know, if you don't have these things

[47:26] in in place, then, generally speaking, it's

[47:30] my understanding that the

[47:32] those general areas start to kind of

[47:33] become dilapidated or start to fall

[47:35] apart. Um

[47:37] so, maybe we can do a better job at I

[47:40] think

[47:42] at some point itemizing or showing

[47:44] exactly,

[47:46] >> [clears throat]

[47:46] >> you know,

[47:47] what they're getting if they're not

[47:49] quite understanding what that is.

[47:51] >> I don't think I don't think that's

[47:52] necessarily the issue, Mr. Mayor.

[47:55] >> Well, what's the issue?

[47:57] >> I think the issue is is that

[48:00] the original intent of the LLMDs was to

[48:03] truly provide a special benefit to the

[48:06] residents when they moved in there.

[48:08] And through time, through attrition,

[48:11] through what have you,

[48:14] the special benefit is lost.

[48:17] Um, for example,

[48:19] improved accessibility for emergency

[48:21] vehicles.

[48:24] What on God's green earth are we

[48:26] [snorts] doing to provide

[48:28] improved accessibility for emergency

[48:31] vehicles in the estates?

[48:34] There's no improved In fact, it's

[48:36] because the streets are so narrow, it's

[48:38] actually creating a bigger bottleneck.

[48:41] And so,

[48:43] I I'm I'm asking I don't have the

[48:46] answer. I and this isn't going to turn

[48:49] into a complete complaint session

[48:51] because

[48:53] uh

[48:54] we're not here the whole time, but the

[48:55] reality is

[48:57] we need to figure out holistically

[49:00] what is truly the special benefit that

[49:02] our residents within the LLMDs, what are

[49:05] they getting? What are they getting for

[49:07] what they pay for?

[49:08] >> Like it I guess [clears throat] what I

[49:10] would say is

[49:11] um maybe go through those walk through

[49:14] that

[49:15] exercise and

[49:18] maybe for each LLMD and specifically

[49:20] write down

[49:21] >> Okay.

[49:22] >> what your concerns are so then we can

[49:24] kind of talk about it um and see if

[49:27] there's some solution or some issue that

[49:30] maybe we're missing. I'm not against you

[49:32] know, looking at it,

[49:33] but I also

[49:35] don't uh

[49:37] don't fully understand what you're

[49:39] saying, but I

[49:40] I'd be more than happy to go over it

[49:42] with you.

[49:43] >> Well, I I think it's it's more so a

[49:46] general conversation at a future

[49:48] meeting.

[49:50] >> Okay.

[49:51] Um

[49:53] Yeah, I don't have a problem with that,

[49:54] but

[49:55] >> With that, can we

[49:56] >> But I think it needs to be more

[49:57] specific. I think you need to

[50:00] Right now, you're talking in

[50:00] generalities a lot. You did give one

[50:02] specific, but it would be nice to kind

[50:05] of I think you'd have to hit these one

[50:07] at a time, where you'd have to have some

[50:09] sort of uh

[50:11] you know,

[50:12] research of it in the background, see if

[50:14] there's something that can be fixed, and

[50:15] if it can't, then I'll be more than

[50:17] happy to bring it to the dais.

[50:19] >> Okay.

[50:21] >> Can we reopen the public hearing?

[50:23] >> Can another council member speak first?

[50:25] >> Yeah.

[50:25] >> I personally think

[50:26] >> And and Mayor, if you're going to reopen

[50:27] the public hearing, I would just speak

[50:29] cautious to that because uh we can't

[50:31] open and close public comment and public

[50:33] hearing just arbitrarily

[50:34] >> I got

[50:35] >> and someone wants to because at some

[50:36] point we're going to have to say no to

[50:37] somebody,

[50:38] >> Exactly. They're going to say

[50:39] >> And you know, so we just have to be

[50:41] careful with that.

[50:42] >> I get it.

[50:43] >> Um Councilman Kay.

[50:45] >> I personally think the statements that

[50:47] you just made were actually a lot more

[50:48] divisive than running a 218 vote for

[50:50] something that a member of a community

[50:51] wanted. You know as well as I do, with

[50:54] the initiation of Prop 13, it limited

[50:56] the tax dollars that were there to

[50:57] provide for park services, water

[50:59] services, lighting services, general

[51:01] upkeep, and that's why LLMDs, LMDs, all

[51:05] of them were created in the first place.

[51:07] They weren't created just to that you

[51:08] had all these special benefits over

[51:10] every other neighborhood. It was so that

[51:12] it could support the things that were

[51:13] being put into that development as it

[51:14] was being built, and you know that as

[51:16] well as I do.

[51:18] Your backstop, that was about the only

[51:19] interesting point that you had there as

[51:21] to something that yeah, if there wasn't

[51:23] a 218 vote for it, I don't believe that

[51:24] we should be able to charge that LLMD.

[51:26] Aside from that, I think that you know

[51:27] exactly why these fees are charged, why

[51:30] all of these things, why they're listed

[51:31] the way that they are, including street

[51:33] sweeping services. Every one of those

[51:35] has to be accounted for as these

[51:36] neighborhoods are built, otherwise there

[51:38] is no way to finance them. They come

[51:40] directly out of the general fund or like

[51:42] I said, Prop 13 made it impossible for

[51:45] us to continue enough tax revenue to

[51:46] support those items, it would bankrupt

[51:48] the city and that's why those things

[51:50] came to be. You know that. I don't

[51:52] appreciate you acting like you or you're

[51:54] unaware of this and you think that this

[51:55] is all special stuff. It's not special

[51:57] stuff. That's how we have to run a city.

[51:59] >> I I understand that Council Member King

[52:01] and I respect your opinion. My My

[52:03] question now is

[52:07] What is What is the special benefit? And

[52:10] that's That's what I'm struggling with.

[52:11] >> Okay, the special benefit is lights on.

[52:14] >> Okay.

[52:14] >> Watering their their parks, taking care

[52:16] of their grass, taking care of their

[52:17] tree services, the benefits that are all

[52:19] outlined in those documents. It is all

[52:21] spelled out. This is what we are going

[52:23] to be paying for with the revenue that

[52:24] we are going to be taking collecting

[52:26] with your fees. The special benefits are

[52:29] the lights will shut off, the wa- water

[52:31] will stop running, the grass will stop

[52:32] growing, the trees will stop being

[52:34] trimmed. All of it is outlined there.

[52:35] When the wall falls down, that's your

[52:37] wall and that's your problem. That's

[52:39] what would happen if we charge

[52:40] accordingly.

[52:40] >> Okay.

[52:43] >> [clears throat]

[52:43] >> If there is any further questions, I

[52:44] think probably best thing to do is get

[52:47] with city manager and kind of walk

[52:49] through it. And then if there's still

[52:51] concern, then then bring it back.

[52:53] >> Absolutely.

[52:54] >> I think in the meantime, I think um

[52:57] cuz there's difference between general

[52:59] use and special use, I get what you're

[53:00] saying. But I also um

[53:03] think what Councilman King is saying is,

[53:06] you know, spot-on. So, I think probably

[53:09] talk to the city manager,

[53:11] get on the same page and if there's an

[53:12] issue, then bring it back.

[53:14] >> May- maybe we need to have a town hall

[53:15] and explain how it is that that LMDs

[53:17] came to be and and where these fees come

[53:19] from. I I don't know.

[53:20] Uh but, you know, we we know full well

[53:22] why it is that we charge the things that

[53:24] we charge for. Like I said, your

[53:26] backstop statement was about the only

[53:28] one that does actually spark my interest

[53:29] as that is something that if they didn't

[53:31] uh

[53:32] vo- voted in, the backstop's in in the

[53:34] place, the city should be taking care of

[53:36] any repair cost for them. We should not

[53:37] be billing the residents for it. Do we

[53:40] fix the backstop this year?

[53:42] >> Yes, well it was charged in 25, 26.

[53:45] >> It was charged in

[53:45] >> The the repair the backstop.

[53:48] >> So I mean that that is something that

[53:50] should be addressed, you know,

[53:51] individually and probably before we both

[53:53] bought this in. Because

[53:54] I agree with you. If they didn't vote it

[53:56] in as a 218 vote, we installed it as a

[53:58] city or a private entity, one of you

[54:01] know, Lions Club or etc. whatever it was

[54:02] that that put it in,

[54:04] then they are not financially

[54:05] responsible to pay for that. But aside

[54:07] from that, all of the rest of that was a

[54:09] whole bunch of hubbub about nothing when

[54:11] you know, we know why it is that we

[54:13] charge these fees and why they have to

[54:14] be paid.

[54:16] >> Um Pro Tem? [clears throat]

[54:17] >> Uh yeah, I have a couple of comments. I

[54:20] don't entirely disagree with Council

[54:21] Stroman. Uh some there are in the

[54:24] language in the engineer's report uh

[54:26] general benefits and special benefits

[54:28] and these LLMDs are supposed to have

[54:29] special benefits. They do.

[54:32] Uh we do have the parks and the

[54:34] playgrounds that are upgraded, they are

[54:36] upkept, they are repaired much more

[54:39] often. Um for example, Sanchez was

[54:42] dilapidated, they were it was not in the

[54:43] LLMD and to get that replaced, we had

[54:48] donations from Lions Club. They redid

[54:50] that whole park and and that was how we

[54:52] actually got the funds to do so.

[54:54] Uh in the LLMDs, those those playgrounds

[54:56] get

[54:58] um

[54:58] repaired.

[55:00] Uh and may or may not make choices on

[55:03] what trees go in when there's an LLMD

[55:05] and when there is not. So that there are

[55:07] those choices, there are special

[55:08] benefits.

[55:10] Do I think street sweeping is one of

[55:11] them? Probably not. That could be a

[55:13] discussion. There are here and there

[55:15] what is general, what is special. So um

[55:17] don't entirely disagree with you,

[55:19] Council Stroman. Uh as for the

[55:21] backstops,

[55:22] if I remember correctly, cuz I think I

[55:24] was on recreation commission at the

[55:26] time,

[55:27] um those were a COVID

[55:29] uh expense that we had COVID monies for

[55:32] and then that was to separate so that

[55:35] kids have more places to play so they

[55:37] weren't just ball collecting at our one

[55:40] park that has baseball fields. So, I

[55:43] think that was we used to some of our

[55:44] code if if you can correct me if I'm

[55:47] wrong, but I do believe we put in extra

[55:49] backstops at extra parks so that we had

[55:52] more play space spread out. Is that

[55:55] >> I can't give you I can't give you

[55:56] comments on the funding. I'm just asked

[55:58] to put in a backstop and we put in

[56:00] backstop.

[56:00] >> But it was around that time period, is

[56:02] that correct? Yeah, so I'm

[56:04] that is how the backstops came to be and

[56:07] why the backstops came to be and why we

[56:09] weren't waiting for a vote on it and it

[56:10] was minimal cost for those metal

[56:13] backstops as well. So, that's how they

[56:15] got there, why why there was not a pause

[56:17] on those.

[56:18] >> Well, my my statement is just that if we

[56:19] put it in as a city and we didn't do a

[56:21] 218 vote on it at the time, we can't

[56:23] charge them for repairs on it now. 100%

[56:26] and I think that our legal professional

[56:28] would agree with that.

[56:30] >> If it's not listed as an improvement in

[56:33] the original formation documents,

[56:35] um then yeah, I would I would agree with

[56:38] it. I but I I can't opine because I

[56:39] don't have it I don't know.

[56:41] >> Right. But if it that's

[56:41] >> No, no, we have that information.

[56:42] >> If that's the case, if your major

[56:44] premise is true, then yeah, then that's

[56:47] true.

[56:47] >> Why don't we [clears throat]

[56:49] uh research that and see where we're at

[56:52] there

[56:53] and then um

[56:55] in the meantime, if we do find out that

[56:57] there's validity to it, then

[57:00] um I don't know if there's any way we

[57:01] can retroactively

[57:03] you know, make that right.

[57:05] >> I'm sure there could be a credit or

[57:06] something in for the future year. I we have to get this to the audit

[57:09] controller's office

[57:11] tonight. So, if we don't, then we're

[57:13] going to miss a whole year's worth of

[57:14] revenue.

[57:15] So, I would not I I

[57:18] until we can investigate that with

[57:20] precision and double-check all of all of

[57:23] the facts to make sure it's true, I

[57:25] recommend that you levy the assessment

[57:27] tonight and then we can always apply

[57:28] some kind of credit or something against

[57:30] it difference for the next for the next

[57:32] tax year.

[57:34] >> I think that seems fair.

[57:36] But, Mr. Mayor, can I make one more

[57:38] statement?

[57:39] Um I really appreciate

[57:41] your feedback, Council Member Kay.

[57:44] My point was that

[57:47] yes, we're up against a deadline. We

[57:49] cannot

[57:51] just stop a whole year's of assessments

[57:54] moving forward. Totally respect that. My

[57:56] point was that

[57:58] I think we I mean from from what we're

[58:01] seeing in these engineers' report to

[58:03] what we used to see 4 years ago is night

[58:06] and day different. It's completely

[58:07] different. All of the bills are

[58:09] itemized. Everything's listed out. We

[58:11] know exactly where the funds are going.

[58:13] My point is that

[58:16] I just would like us to and

[58:18] the four of you don't have to do it. I I

[58:20] will take on this responsibility. All

[58:23] I'm saying is that

[58:26] we want to make sure that we are doing

[58:29] right by our residents and ensuring that

[58:32] these costs are truly a special benefit.

[58:35] >> I think uh

[58:37] I think that uh

[58:39] you know, we're kind of beating a dead

[58:41] horse here. I think honestly what we

[58:43] needed need to do is just research it.

[58:46] >> Yep.

[58:47] >> I have no [clears throat] issue with

[58:48] doing obviously do right by the

[58:50] community. That's the thing why we're

[58:52] all up here.

[58:53] Um and if you find some something that

[58:55] is genuinely an issue, bring it we bring

[58:57] it back. But I think right now I think

[58:59] we need to realize you know

[59:03] that

[59:05] both of you everyone's made their

[59:06] statement except for mainly Councilman

[59:08] Ogle.

[59:09] >> I think anything to say at this point

[59:11] would be redundant. I think all the

[59:12] points were covered.

[59:13] >> Okay. So

[59:16] I would humor a motion.

[59:18] >> I'll just state that we as a city have

[59:20] been known in historically to lower

[59:23] assessments after realizing we have

[59:26] assessed higher and we do lower in

[59:29] following years. So, historically we

[59:31] have set a precedent to be able to go

[59:33] back, look at that, and then lower those

[59:35] assessments in the future in the

[59:37] following years. So,

[59:39] we'll go ahead and and talk to staff in

[59:41] the future and we'll just see what what

[59:43] we can find in those numbers.

[59:45] >> Okay.

[59:46] Do we have a motion on this?

[59:48] >> Sure, I'll make a motion. Mr. Mayor, I'd

[59:51] like to motion to adopt resolution

[59:52] number XX26 confirming the engineer's

[59:54] reports ordering a levy of assessments

[59:56] for fiscal year 2026-27 for the Bella

[59:58] Terra Estates Landscape Maintenance

[1:00:00] District number 01-1, Estates Benefit

[1:00:03] Assessment District number 06-1, Estates

[1:00:06] Landscape and Lighting Maintenance

[1:00:07] District number number 06-1,

[1:00:10] Sunrise Terrace Landscape Maintenance District number 96-1, and

[1:00:14] Westwood Country Landscape and Lighting

[1:00:16] Maintenance District number 02-1,

[1:00:20] and

[1:00:21] uh investigate the potential over gym

[1:00:25] cost for the backstop and issue a refund

[1:00:29] if necessary.

[1:00:30] >> Any second on that?

[1:00:32] >> I'll second.

[1:00:33] >> Okay. All in favor, say aye.

[1:00:34] >> Aye.

[1:00:35] >> All opposed, say nay. Okay.

[1:00:38] On to number eight. Um city manager,

[1:00:45] » Thank you, Mayor.

[1:00:50] So, the item before you is

[1:00:54] to consider a software program that the

[1:00:57] city is looking at in in this particular

[1:00:59] case, it's

[1:01:01] up to a 7-year agreement. Um we get

[1:01:04] pricing for 7 years. It's not

[1:01:05] necessarily

[1:01:07] we're not bound necessarily by the 7

[1:01:10] years. But,

[1:01:11] I will get into the introduction and

[1:01:15] then I'll turn it over to Trevin and the

[1:01:17] team to walk through the rest.

[1:01:20] >> [gasps]

[1:01:21] >> Um so, the new management team over the

[1:01:24] last three years, um, our efforts have

[1:01:27] been to strive to implement council

[1:01:29] direction, of course, uh, to take steps

[1:01:32] to becoming a more professional

[1:01:34] organization,

[1:01:35] um, to improve customer service and

[1:01:38] customer satisfaction has been has has

[1:01:40] been, um,

[1:01:43] feedback provided to us and to make it

[1:01:46] easier for businesses to do business in

[1:01:48] town. And this is the council's new, um,

[1:01:50] focus on on economic development.

[1:01:53] We are, of course, continuing to work on

[1:01:56] all of those goals, um, and we, I think,

[1:01:58] make strides each year, uh, but continue

[1:02:01] to work on it.

[1:02:03] Approximately three years ago, um,

[1:02:06] the past council, largely made up of the

[1:02:08] same individuals, um, challenged staff

[1:02:11] to make headway on review of business

[1:02:14] licenses and home ox. Those were taking

[1:02:16] between three and seven days. Um, we

[1:02:19] have cut that down in three years to one

[1:02:22] day in every single instance, pretty

[1:02:24] much.

[1:02:25] Um, [snorts]

[1:02:27] 99.999%

[1:02:30] Um, and we also, because of the reduced

[1:02:32] review time, we reduced the home ox

[1:02:35] permit cost about 50% at that time. So,

[1:02:38] we were charging less.

[1:02:40] So, this was the kind of first foray

[1:02:42] into looking at how to improve the

[1:02:44] process, how to streamline it a bit,

[1:02:47] and,

[1:02:47] um, it's been successful so far.

[1:02:50] >> [clears throat]

[1:02:51] >> Then, as we, um,

[1:02:55] adopted the strategic plan, the

[1:02:57] council's strategic plan that looked at

[1:02:59] economic development, as we formed the

[1:03:01] economic development committee,

[1:03:04] and as we started to draft the economic

[1:03:06] development strategic plan,

[1:03:08] um,

[1:03:09] much of the conversation in both of

[1:03:11] those circles, the EDC, the economic

[1:03:14] development committee, and the economic

[1:03:16] development strategic plan have focused

[1:03:18] on how to streamline and and make the

[1:03:21] process smoother for businesses to come

[1:03:24] in to renew their business, for home

[1:03:25] owners to to come in.

[1:03:28] And so software is is one such tool, of

[1:03:31] course, to help to streamline, to take

[1:03:34] some of the human error and the human

[1:03:36] processing where a small staff, we have

[1:03:38] outages sometimes, illnesses, vacations,

[1:03:40] those types of things.

[1:03:42] And so as we were looking

[1:03:44] at various software programs, we came

[1:03:47] across OpenGov.

[1:03:50] And we view it as as one of the best out

[1:03:54] there for sure.

[1:03:56] Now, what we recognize is there's a cost

[1:03:59] associated with this effort.

[1:04:02] Um and we bring this to the council

[1:04:06] with that background that we are looking

[1:04:10] to make it more

[1:04:12] professional organization, to streamline

[1:04:14] the process, to improve customer service

[1:04:16] specifically for businesses.

[1:04:21] Um and so with that, I will turn it over

[1:04:23] to Trevin and the team to kind of walk

[1:04:26] through the specifics of the OpenGov

[1:04:28] program, what it does, what it doesn't

[1:04:31] do. And in that presentation, we'll walk

[1:04:34] through the cost and some of our ideas

[1:04:37] that we have to offset some of the cost

[1:04:39] so there's not a as large of a general

[1:04:42] fund subsidy.

[1:04:44] >> Thank you, city manager. And I'll I'll dovetail right into the history on

[1:04:48] that. As soon as I came on board, one of

[1:04:50] my major tasks was developing an

[1:04:52] economic development strategic plan.

[1:04:54] That was going to take some time. We

[1:04:55] knew it was going to take about a year

[1:04:57] to do that. So we worked with the

[1:04:59] economic development committee to create

[1:05:01] an interim economic development

[1:05:03] strategic plan or a work plan that

[1:05:05] included the small business grants that

[1:05:08] you're probably more familiar with, but

[1:05:10] it also included a couple of other

[1:05:12] items. We explored with you the concept

[1:05:14] of a small business incubator or a

[1:05:16] rentable office space in city hall, and

[1:05:19] that had its drawbacks and we didn't

[1:05:20] pursue that. One of the other items that

[1:05:22] was on that short list that was approved

[1:05:24] was

[1:05:25] looking at

[1:05:26] a permitting system.

[1:05:28] And so that's where the context of this

[1:05:30] came in and over the past year we've had

[1:05:32] other hot button priorities for economic

[1:05:34] development like the grant program, but

[1:05:36] staff continued to poke and look at

[1:05:38] different opportunities to have a more

[1:05:41] modern system that can give our staff

[1:05:43] the tools they need to be

[1:05:45] immediately available for customers and

[1:05:47] immediately responsive to customers as

[1:05:49] they expect in a digital age. So that

[1:05:52] led us to looking at our current

[1:05:54] software providers to see if we could

[1:05:55] leverage something that we already have

[1:05:58] to provide services to our customers and

[1:05:59] our citizens such as Tyler and Numio and

[1:06:04] HDL. Those are some of our providers

[1:06:06] that we've used in the past for

[1:06:07] different services and they had a

[1:06:09] solution for permitting which we

[1:06:11] reviewed and looked at, but they didn't

[1:06:13] necessarily meet what we needed. We

[1:06:15] looked at other governments nearby to

[1:06:17] see what they were using

[1:06:19] which included ClearGov and BlueDot, but

[1:06:23] also those didn't really include

[1:06:25] everything that we needed. They just had

[1:06:26] components of what we needed. So we

[1:06:28] looked at multiple platforms.

[1:06:31] We went through demonstrations on each

[1:06:33] product. We looked at references and we

[1:06:35] compared costs, and OpenGov was really

[1:06:38] the only one that offered pretty much

[1:06:40] everything that we were looking for. A

[1:06:41] unified permitting and licensing system,

[1:06:44] integrated mobile inspections, GIS and

[1:06:46] master address integration, an automatic

[1:06:50] state contractor license verification.

[1:06:52] So if something someone's applying for a

[1:06:54] license, they also need to show us their

[1:06:56] state license. This does that

[1:06:57] automatically for us. It frees up staff

[1:07:00] from having to do that back end office

[1:07:01] work so that we can spend more time at

[1:07:03] the front counter and spend more more

[1:07:05] with customers.

[1:07:07] It's also native to the Stripe payment

[1:07:10] processing.

[1:07:11] Um

[1:07:12] and [clears throat] so as we started

[1:07:13] going through and evaluating our

[1:07:14] options, we landed on OpenGov. We began

[1:07:18] discussions with them and they were able

[1:07:20] to provide us a significantly discounted

[1:07:23] price given the size of the community

[1:07:25] and um providing a longer-term contract.

[1:07:28] Um we are uh fortunate we have a

[1:07:30] representative from OpenGov uh with us

[1:07:32] tonight in the audience. I'm going to

[1:07:33] invite Arty up and he's going to walk

[1:07:36] through how the software works so that

[1:07:38] you can see in um

[1:07:39] on the screen. I'll I'll uh pull it up

[1:07:41] on the screen and give Arty the clicker

[1:07:43] um so that he can go ahead and click

[1:07:45] through the presentation for you and

[1:07:46] you'll be able to see it up there.

[1:07:48] >> Um excuse me, was it Ar- Arty?

[1:07:50] >> Arty, yeah.

[1:07:51] >> Arty, okay, like Marty with a without

[1:07:53] the M.

[1:07:53] >> Yeah, it's a it's a nickname for Arthur.

[1:07:55] >> Okay, got you.

[1:07:57] >> Council members, thank you for having me

[1:07:59] here today and um I appreciate your

[1:08:00] time. Uh like I said, my name's Arty

[1:08:02] Hazelton and I'm the OpenGov

[1:08:05] representative. Um and I'm here to

[1:08:06] answer any questions related to OpenGov

[1:08:09] uh and you know, dive into the specifics

[1:08:11] of the actual software. Um so I can be

[1:08:13] your technical resource as well. Um

[1:08:16] let's see.

[1:08:17] So to give you just an overview of

[1:08:19] OpenGov, um we are a software company

[1:08:23] that's purpose-built for local

[1:08:25] government. So we only work with cities,

[1:08:27] towns, villages, counties, boroughs,

[1:08:31] what have you.

[1:08:32] Um

[1:08:32] but we have a lot of experience working

[1:08:34] with

[1:08:35] really small agencies um like Escalon.

[1:08:38] And so across the country and across our

[1:08:40] entire product portfolio, we do partner

[1:08:43] with over 2,000 governments. Um

[1:08:45] specifically the permitting and

[1:08:47] licensing product that we're discussing

[1:08:49] today, uh there are over 700 partners

[1:08:51] across the country.

[1:08:52] Uh in the state of California, there's

[1:08:54] over 60 and then if we even zoom in

[1:08:56] closer, um City of Ripon and City of

[1:09:00] Oakdale are also both uh OpenGov

[1:09:02] permitting and licensing customers.

[1:09:04] So we have a lot of experience across

[1:09:06] the country as well as within the area

[1:09:08] as well.

[1:09:11] So I'm going to summarize instead of

[1:09:19] going through every single one of these

[1:09:20] bullet points, but the benefits to

[1:09:23] working with OpenGov is twofold. So on

[1:09:26] one side we have quite a bit of

[1:09:28] efficiencies for staff and time saving

[1:09:31] for staff. And one thing that I want to

[1:09:34] mention is for an agency like Escalon

[1:09:36] that's moving off of no system at all or

[1:09:38] a paper based system.

[1:09:40] As a part of the implementation we're

[1:09:42] actually going to be

[1:09:43] creating a standardized workflow or

[1:09:45] process for

[1:09:48] you know, handling permits. And so with

[1:09:51] that, once you do have a standardized

[1:09:53] process, there's a lot of automated

[1:09:54] features within the system

[1:09:56] that will actually save quite a bit of

[1:09:58] time for staff. For example,

[1:10:01] coordinating multi-departmental review.

[1:10:03] This is all done automatically in the

[1:10:05] system.

[1:10:06] Scheduling inspections is automatic.

[1:10:09] Calculating fees and charging fees is

[1:10:11] automated as well. And there's a number

[1:10:13] of other features within the system that

[1:10:14] we'll go through

[1:10:16] in this presentation. But a lot of time

[1:10:18] savings for staff

[1:10:20] and creating efficiencies there. On the

[1:10:22] other side and from a customer service

[1:10:24] perspective there's actually a lot of

[1:10:26] benefit for constituents or

[1:10:29] you know, the applicants that are going

[1:10:30] to be using the actual online permit

[1:10:32] portal. For one it provides a

[1:10:35] centralized location for everything

[1:10:38] permit and license related. And I

[1:10:40] actually have a slide following this

[1:10:42] that will show you what that sort of

[1:10:43] looks like.

[1:10:44] But on top of that it provides a lot of

[1:10:46] transparency. So you know, staff will

[1:10:49] not have to field as many calls or

[1:10:50] emails about hey, where is this permit

[1:10:53] or what's the status on this permit?

[1:10:54] They're actually able to go onto the

[1:10:55] portal

[1:10:57] and look at it by themselves.

[1:10:59] And then another item that's actually

[1:11:01] not on this list is the fact that both

[1:11:03] the Ripon and Oakdale are using this

[1:11:05] permitting system. So for contractors

[1:11:08] that are doing business across all three

[1:11:10] cities, they're going to have a

[1:11:10] consistent experience

[1:11:13] and they'll actually have one unified

[1:11:14] login for all different cities.

[1:11:20] So

[1:11:21] this here is actually a look at the

[1:11:24] public-facing portal

[1:11:27] and as you can see it's a one-stop shop.

[1:11:29] So that means it's a place where

[1:11:30] applicants can apply for permits or

[1:11:33] licenses, pay for fees, track the status

[1:11:36] of the permit, communicate with staff

[1:11:39] members,

[1:11:40] search up historical permit data

[1:11:44] for any specific address

[1:11:46] and it's also designed for both

[1:11:48] frequent flyers as well as first-time

[1:11:51] permit applicants.

[1:11:52] As you can see here, there's a search

[1:11:54] bar front and center. So for someone who

[1:11:56] doesn't know the permit process that

[1:11:58] well, they can look up something like,

[1:11:59] "Hey,

[1:12:00] um

[1:12:01] what permits do I need for building an

[1:12:03] ADU in my backyard?" And the system will

[1:12:06] actually show you, "Hey, XYZ permits"

[1:12:08] and will let you apply for it just right

[1:12:10] there.

[1:12:14] And so that's the public portal, but you

[1:12:17] know, within the staff side, there's

[1:12:19] obviously faster reviews because a lot

[1:12:21] of the process is now automated within

[1:12:22] the system.

[1:12:24] It's a place for both staff and

[1:12:25] applicants to actually communicate and

[1:12:28] collaborate on different projects that

[1:12:30] they're working on.

[1:12:31] And then one item as well as the city's

[1:12:33] going to have full control of the

[1:12:34] system.

[1:12:35] And when you look at other vendors

[1:12:37] within this space, this is actually a

[1:12:38] big differentiator with OpenGov

[1:12:41] because if, you know, for example with

[1:12:43] another system, if you wanted to

[1:12:45] change the application fields or change

[1:12:48] the workflow steps or update the fee

[1:12:50] schedule,

[1:12:51] Um will actually require going to the

[1:12:52] vendor having IT do that for you. But

[1:12:55] with OpenGov, city staff are very easily

[1:12:57] able to make those changes on their own.

[1:13:02] Just to show you more of the actual

[1:13:03] system. This is also on the

[1:13:04] public-facing side. Um and this is what

[1:13:07] it looks like once someone submits an

[1:13:09] application. But as you can see on the

[1:13:11] left-hand side here, there's actually a

[1:13:12] status tracker that shows in real time

[1:13:15] where the permit's at. So, um if an

[1:13:18] applicant wants to, you know, instead of

[1:13:19] calling into the city, they can actually

[1:13:21] just go online and check and see where

[1:13:23] it's at.

[1:13:26] This is um an internal feature, but

[1:13:28] there's a built-in fee calculator. So,

[1:13:31] city staff are able to and as a part of

[1:13:32] the implementation, um set up uh a fee

[1:13:36] schedule with different rules. And just

[1:13:38] using this, you know, applicants are

[1:13:41] able to apply for permits and know

[1:13:43] exactly what they're paying for. Um

[1:13:46] and it saves quite a bit of time for

[1:13:47] both staff and applicants.

[1:13:50] This is also another internal look, um

[1:13:52] but when it comes to

[1:13:54] multi-departmental review where you have

[1:13:56] different departments working on uh the

[1:13:58] review process for a permit, they're

[1:14:00] able to see in real time what department

[1:14:03] we're waiting on. Um so, we can see here

[1:14:05] building has already approved their

[1:14:07] portion, but we're waiting on public

[1:14:09] works. And even within the system,

[1:14:11] you're able to message other departments

[1:14:13] and say, "Hey, John Doe and and public

[1:14:16] works, can you please take a look at

[1:14:17] this when you get a chance?" Um so, it's

[1:14:19] a centralized location for

[1:14:21] everything that you have to do for the

[1:14:23] actual permit.

[1:14:25] And then finally, um another benefit is

[1:14:28] the reporting

[1:14:30] uh and the dashboards that you're able

[1:14:31] to create on your own. [clears throat]

[1:14:33] Um we actually find with other agencies

[1:14:35] that they will give uh council members a

[1:14:39] login to OpenGov, so they can actually

[1:14:40] see dashboards and check, "Hey, you

[1:14:43] know, what's the permit revenue this

[1:14:44] year? Or how many building permits have

[1:14:46] we issued so far?

[1:14:48] But these are just some of the benefits

[1:14:50] to to OpenGov and

[1:14:52] uh

[1:14:52] that's the end of my presentation. If

[1:14:53] you guys have any questions, please let

[1:14:55] me know.

[1:14:56] >> Thank you, Ardy. I have a few more

[1:14:58] unless you have questions directly for

[1:14:59] Ardy. I'm just going to go over the cost

[1:15:01] for you.

[1:15:02] >> Go for it.

[1:15:02] >> Okay. So, thank you, Ardy. I appreciate

[1:15:04] it. Um wanted to touch on uh the cost.

[1:15:08] So, now that you see what the software

[1:15:11] is, um how it functions, you have a much

[1:15:13] better understanding in your mind's eye

[1:15:15] of how staff would be using it. Um staff

[1:15:18] has worked with Ardy and his team on

[1:15:20] coming up with a cost structure that

[1:15:23] might work really well for the city. Um

[1:15:26] it's a 7-year contract and the first

[1:15:28] year is comprised of primarily setting

[1:15:31] up the software. Now, typically this

[1:15:33] would be a cost above and beyond the

[1:15:35] contract cost for the subscription, but

[1:15:37] OpenGov has essentially discounted the

[1:15:41] price of the software by 70% and um is

[1:15:44] also providing a lot of their staff time

[1:15:47] to get the software up and running for

[1:15:49] the implementation component. Um so,

[1:15:51] this will save us considerably and will

[1:15:53] allow us to hit the ground running and

[1:15:55] get their help to implement it and

[1:15:57] provide um immediate uh service to the

[1:16:00] public and immediate asset to the

[1:16:02] public. Um and so, the OpenGov platform,

[1:16:06] it's intuitive for both customers and

[1:16:08] staff. It's widely used by other

[1:16:09] agencies um and its pricing is fully

[1:16:13] pre-competed through the Sourcewell

[1:16:15] cooperative purchasing program. That's

[1:16:17] something that I also um want to make

[1:16:19] sure that's clear and transparent on. In

[1:16:21] any purchase that we do in city hall, we

[1:16:23] make sure that it's competitively bid.

[1:16:25] There are opportunities where um these

[1:16:29] there have they have there are already

[1:16:31] um competitive bids that are out there

[1:16:33] and they're already results. So, we're

[1:16:35] in a sense piggybacking on Sourcewell's

[1:16:38] competitively bid process to get the

[1:16:40] discounted rate or the prebid rate. On

[1:16:43] top of that, we're getting the 70%

[1:16:45] discount for the first year and then the

[1:16:47] 40% annual discount there

[1:16:50] moving forward every year on top of the

[1:16:53] prebid price. So, we're getting a

[1:16:55] considerable deal on this software

[1:16:58] program.

[1:16:59] It is a software as service agreement

[1:17:02] and so we use it year by year and so

[1:17:04] that's how the the contract is set up.

[1:17:06] Now, to support the cost of the

[1:17:08] software, we wanted to try and be

[1:17:10] creative in not putting all of the

[1:17:12] burden on general fund and competing

[1:17:14] with other departments

[1:17:15] other services

[1:17:17] within the city for this. So, we looked

[1:17:19] at a way to slowly escalate our building

[1:17:23] and development permit fees so that we

[1:17:25] can slowly absorb the cost of this

[1:17:27] system and be able to provide better

[1:17:29] services to our community. And so,

[1:17:31] that's what you see in the chart in the

[1:17:32] fiscal impact is you see the explanation

[1:17:35] of the costs and then you see the slow

[1:17:37] ramp up year by year

[1:17:39] where we projected what it would look

[1:17:41] like if we did a 3% to our building fees

[1:17:43] and we took our

[1:17:45] last year's fees to be able to calculate

[1:17:48] those those results.

[1:17:52] Yes, and I can put that on the screen.

[1:17:53] So, that that concludes my discussion of

[1:17:55] the fiscal impacts. Happy to answer

[1:17:57] questions. Are you still here? Happy to

[1:17:59] answer questions as well and I'll put it

[1:18:00] up on the screen for the public.

[1:18:04] » [clears throat]

[1:18:06] >> Any questions up here?

[1:18:08] >> Mr. Mayor, I have a couple.

[1:18:09] >> Yeah.

[1:18:09] >> At least one.

[1:18:10] >> Before

[1:18:11] >> So,

[1:18:12] I I did want to say thanks for

[1:18:13] explaining the ROI cuz that was my my

[1:18:15] biggest concern, right? How do we get

[1:18:17] our money back? I think you did a good

[1:18:18] job of explaining

[1:18:20] how we're able to cover those costs over

[1:18:23] the full term. So, I guess that leaves

[1:18:25] my my question to be for

[1:18:27] >> Yeah, for Arty or for

[1:18:29] >> Uh this is

[1:18:30] >> Yeah, for Trevin, yeah.

[1:18:32] >> Or it could potentially be for Arty as

[1:18:33] well, but

[1:18:34] uh

[1:18:35] while I I I definitely appreciate uh a

[1:18:38] system in place for licensing and

[1:18:40] permitting. Uh you know, I brought that

[1:18:42] to council, you know, several years ago,

[1:18:44] and you guys have done a great job with

[1:18:45] that to see to So, to see that we're

[1:18:46] furthering that is encouraging to me.

[1:18:50] But,

[1:18:51] uh you know,

[1:18:52] while the majority of us are, you know,

[1:18:54] transitioning to digital formats, there is still a percentage of people

[1:18:58] who aren't. So, will applicants still be

[1:19:00] able to come in and process over the

[1:19:02] counter if they're not tech-friendly?

[1:19:05] >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that wouldn't

[1:19:07] change at all. The goal is to be able to

[1:19:09] provide more face time with the public

[1:19:11] and have staff more available instead of

[1:19:13] working on back office tasks of routing

[1:19:15] paperwork.

[1:19:17] >> No, I I I think it looks great. Thank

[1:19:18] you.

[1:19:20] >> Any other questions up here?

[1:19:23] Just a brief one.

[1:19:24] Um

[1:19:26] So, uh confirming I when I talked to the

[1:19:30] city manager about this item, he noted

[1:19:32] that um

[1:19:35] we're not locked into a full 7-year

[1:19:37] contract, and we can evaluate

[1:19:40] um

[1:19:41] after year one if we're truly get

[1:19:44] getting a return on our our investment

[1:19:46] moving forward.

[1:19:47] Uh I guess my question is to you,

[1:19:51] how can we confirm that yes, we are

[1:19:55] freeing up staff time? How are we uh

[1:19:58] without losing that

[1:20:00] um

[1:20:02] customer-centric focus? Uh as the city

[1:20:04] manager alluded to, we took the

[1:20:07] businesses business licensing down from

[1:20:10] 3 to 7 days to 1 day.

[1:20:13] I want to make sure that we're remain

[1:20:15] still maintaining those customer service

[1:20:17] levels

[1:20:18] um

[1:20:18] moving forward. So,

[1:20:21] how how can we track that to make sure

[1:20:23] that we're not losing that

[1:20:25] customer-centric feel by going to an

[1:20:28] online service?

[1:20:31] >> I guess

[1:20:32] We will [clears throat] still track it

[1:20:33] the same way. So, right now we track our

[1:20:35] the timeline for closing out new

[1:20:38] business license applications and

[1:20:39] processing them. And so, we'd still have

[1:20:42] that as staff to be able to track that.

[1:20:44] wouldn't change.

[1:20:46] >> Yeah.

[1:20:47] >> And I'll just, you know, what I think

[1:20:49] your question is and and Trevin has

[1:20:51] mentioned this.

[1:20:53] There's a lot of back-end

[1:20:56] work to be done processing licenses and

[1:20:59] permits. It is no contact with the

[1:21:02] customer.

[1:21:04] And what we believe this program will do

[1:21:06] is free up that time, so we have more

[1:21:09] time available with the customers.

[1:21:12] So, you know,

[1:21:14] business licenses every year annual

[1:21:16] updates very manual process for us. It

[1:21:19] takes two staff members like, you know,

[1:21:22] the better part of a month to to do some

[1:21:25] of that. So, with a program, we can do

[1:21:28] more of that in a streamlined fashion,

[1:21:30] freeing up that time to be able to

[1:21:32] provide more customer service.

[1:21:35] Um and to your question a little bit, um

[1:21:38] managing a permit or license online

[1:21:40] doesn't preclude us from still helping

[1:21:42] that customer

[1:21:44] uh at the counter and taking in a

[1:21:46] physical copy of the permit and then we

[1:21:49] just process it through the online

[1:21:51] portal therefore

[1:21:53] therefrom.

[1:21:54] Um but, as was mentioned by both Trevin

[1:21:57] and Arty, it gives the customer who

[1:21:59] happens to think of something at 10:00

[1:22:01] at night or on a Saturday the ability to

[1:22:03] look up the status of their permit or

[1:22:05] their license without having to wait

[1:22:08] until Monday or without having to wait

[1:22:10] until, you know, the staff member

[1:22:12] returns from an illness or a vacation or

[1:22:14] something. So, it gives them more

[1:22:16] visibility, more awareness in a digital

[1:22:19] platform

[1:22:20] um

[1:22:21] through this program. But, if they're

[1:22:22] not digitally savvy, they can obviously

[1:22:25] they call the city and and we'll be able

[1:22:27] to help them with that as well.

[1:22:30] » So, [clears throat]

[1:22:31] you're saying that it's not going to

[1:22:32] decrease the physical face-to-face

[1:22:34] handshake conversations

[1:22:37] with the businesses?

[1:22:39] Like, are you going to actively go to

[1:22:41] these businesses and be constantly,

[1:22:43] you know, there? Cuz I think there's a

[1:22:45] lot lot that gets lost in translation

[1:22:48] through digital stuff.

[1:22:49] You know what I'm saying?

[1:22:51] >> Yeah, honestly, it'll decrease it for

[1:22:53] those who don't want the face-to-face

[1:22:55] interaction and it'll increase it for

[1:22:57] those who do. We'll just we'll free up

[1:22:59] more staff time to be able to interact

[1:23:01] with those who do want, but those who do

[1:23:03] this all the time and and kind of know

[1:23:05] the process and want to check it online,

[1:23:07] they're able to do that whenever they

[1:23:09] want.

[1:23:09] >> Can I Can I also add to that? So, staff

[1:23:12] always recommends that we do a

[1:23:14] pre-development meeting or

[1:23:15] pre-application meeting and that

[1:23:17] recommendation wouldn't change. That

[1:23:19] would still be advertised. That would

[1:23:20] still be our preference. We want the

[1:23:23] public and we want the applicant to have

[1:23:25] clarity on what the steps are and we

[1:23:26] want to be aligned with them on what

[1:23:29] their desires and goals are for their

[1:23:30] project and how we can how we can help

[1:23:32] you. So, [clears throat] we would still

[1:23:34] pursue that and that wouldn't that's not

[1:23:36] done through the software. That's done

[1:23:38] through a meeting with staff.

[1:23:40] >> So, I have a couple basic questions

[1:23:42] besides that I was going to ask.

[1:23:44] Um, what's done with the metadata? Are

[1:23:46] you guys selling it off? You

[1:23:49] Do it Does it go to,

[1:23:51] you know, our own little server? Like,

[1:23:53] how does that work?

[1:23:55] Uh, and then the other would be what

[1:23:58] else is on there like as far as arena

[1:24:00] numbers, all that stuff? Is that on that

[1:24:02] website?

[1:24:03] >> Um,

[1:24:04] to answer the first question, no, we

[1:24:06] don't sell your data. It's it's all

[1:24:07] hosted on the cloud, but you own all of

[1:24:09] your data.

[1:24:10] Um, and then could you repeat the second

[1:24:11] question?

[1:24:12] >> I I can answer that.

[1:24:14] >> Got it.

[1:24:14] >> So, the second question for the public

[1:24:15] was arena numbers. I don't see this

[1:24:18] software uh tracking the arena numbers.

[1:24:20] That's still something that will be done

[1:24:22] by staff through um the housing element

[1:24:25] implementation. We'll do by hand.

[1:24:27] >> So no one out in LA can't isn't

[1:24:29] cherry-picking.

[1:24:31] I I just want to make sure I'm clear

[1:24:33] with

[1:24:34] the potential technology as far as how

[1:24:37] it could be abused or not.

[1:24:38] >> Correct. Yeah, this won't report the

[1:24:40] data or provide the data to some

[1:24:42] stranger online.

[1:24:44] So yes, correct.

[1:24:47] >> Yeah.

[1:24:48] Um

[1:24:51] All right.

[1:24:55] that's what I have. Um

[1:24:57] Anyone else up here have questions at

[1:24:59] all?

[1:25:01] No?

[1:25:01] All right. Um we'll take it out to the

[1:25:03] public.

[1:25:05] >> Thank you, Sandy.

[1:25:10] » Okay. Um the presentation was beautiful.

[1:25:13] The the benefits, I understand. I'm

[1:25:16] coming at it from a completely different

[1:25:17] angle. Um

[1:25:19] I'm coming at it from somebody who lives

[1:25:21] within a budget, and so my question is

[1:25:26] probably ignorant. If I buy TurboTax,

[1:25:28] for example, I pay one fee. It doesn't

[1:25:31] matter if I do just mine or if I do 100

[1:25:33] of my neighbors, the fee's the same.

[1:25:37] And the more

[1:25:38] TurboTax sells their software, the more

[1:25:41] money they make. So my question is, if

[1:25:44] it's software,

[1:25:47] the price to me,

[1:25:49] from where I sit,

[1:25:52] goes from 39 to 58,000

[1:25:55] for software.

[1:25:57] So

[1:25:58] I'm

[1:26:00] you know, when software is developed and

[1:26:02] it's there pretty much after software,

[1:26:03] and I understand you're going to have,

[1:26:05] you know, help and and you're going to

[1:26:06] have people that you can call and and

[1:26:08] help you with this, but that's a big

[1:26:10] jump. I mean, if it's the same software,

[1:26:12] why does the price go up? It's

[1:26:14] typically, you know, once something is

[1:26:16] developed, the more customers you get, your money with more customers,

[1:26:19] not you've got a product that now you

[1:26:22] guys like and it's it's, you know,

[1:26:24] supply and demand, I get it, you know,

[1:26:26] and it's and it's and it's what do I

[1:26:28] want to call it? Profit. But

[1:26:31] it's a little it's a little much, it's a

[1:26:34] whole salary. So, to me, I'm looking at

[1:26:36] that and going, "Okay, it's software and

[1:26:38] once you put it in place and you it's going, it's going to run itself."

[1:26:41] And so, why does the cost keep going up

[1:26:43] and why is it so god gum expensive? And

[1:26:46] I appreciate that I can still call

[1:26:47] because I am not a techy person and I

[1:26:49] don't want to do it online. Okay.

[1:26:51] Thanks.

[1:26:53] >> Okay.

[1:26:54] Do we have anybody to answer that

[1:26:55] question?

[1:26:55] >> Yeah, can can somebody Yeah.

[1:26:57] >> Yeah.

[1:26:59] >> I think I could do a half-baked job of

[1:27:01] it, but I'm sure that a professional

[1:27:02] could do a better job.

[1:27:03] >> Yeah. So, so yes, the the pricing does

[1:27:05] increase um 5% year over year. Um and

[1:27:08] the reason for that is

[1:27:11] we provide uh the product enhancements

[1:27:14] to all of our customers at no cost. So,

[1:27:16] I think what you'll see with a lot of

[1:27:17] other vendors is they'll have, you know,

[1:27:19] OpenGov 1.0 and then if you want the

[1:27:22] newest version, you got to pay for the

[1:27:23] upgrade for OpenGov 2.0. With OpenGov,

[1:27:25] you're getting the best um system at all

[1:27:28] times. It's it's constantly improving

[1:27:31] and and we do put a lot of um funding

[1:27:33] into our product development. Um and I

[1:27:35] think I don't know, I think that the

[1:27:37] permitting and licensing product that we

[1:27:38] offer is actually the one that's

[1:27:40] developed the most. Um so, that's the

[1:27:43] reason why there's a a pricing increase.

[1:27:45] >> I would have gone with cloud server

[1:27:46] storage and, you know, all the

[1:27:48] electricity and expense that it takes to

[1:27:50] run all of that increasing over time and

[1:27:52] all that fun stuff as well. Just to add

[1:27:54] to that, Sherry.

[1:27:55] >> Very true.

[1:27:56] >> Okay. Uh any other questions out there?

[1:27:59] >> I just want to make a comment for

[1:28:00] Sherry. On page 389 of the agenda,

[1:28:02] Sherry, kind of down at the bottom,

[1:28:04] you'll be able to see what the estimated

[1:28:05] labor savings is. So, it kind of

[1:28:07] justifies that and and then it talks um

[1:28:10] you know, the the annual operation cost.

[1:28:12] so what that actually saves. And then

[1:28:14] for like a staff member, just just to

[1:28:16] throw it out there, if we were to

[1:28:18] account for a staff members

[1:28:21] um total compensation package, we would

[1:28:23] significantly surpass the numbers that

[1:28:26] are that are put out there.

[1:28:30] Um any other questions out there?

[1:28:33] Online?

[1:28:36] Okay, we'll bring it back to the dais.

[1:28:37] Thank you, Arty.

[1:28:38] >> [snorts]

[1:28:39] >> Um

[1:28:40] I I definitely see where there's

[1:28:41] increasing efficiency, for sure.

[1:28:44] Um

[1:28:46] are we

[1:28:47] got it getting some

[1:28:49] uh reason of thinking we're going to

[1:28:51] have like a significant influx of

[1:28:53] permitting

[1:28:55] that's that's uh going to be a game

[1:28:56] changer that would justify needing this,

[1:28:59] or is it just more

[1:29:01] for a back-end efficiency?

[1:29:05] » I think, you know, this first started

[1:29:07] with economic development and

[1:29:10] potentially more or new businesses

[1:29:13] coming in

[1:29:14] and being able to have a streamlined,

[1:29:17] smooth, professional process

[1:29:20] um to help us in the attraction and

[1:29:23] processing of of new businesses.

[1:29:25] Otherwise, um you know, we don't expect

[1:29:28] an influx. I think we are reacting to

[1:29:31] from 3 years ago until today some of the

[1:29:33] comments we've heard from council

[1:29:35] pre-strategic plan and and

[1:29:36] post-strategic plan.

[1:29:38] Um

[1:29:39] you know, I I would say this is not

[1:29:41] cutting-edge technology, right? This is

[1:29:44] uh sort of a baseline for for many

[1:29:46] cities to move from the kind of paper

[1:29:48] manual process into um

[1:29:51] a program like this. So, no, we don't

[1:29:53] expect an influx, but we do want to help

[1:29:57] um future businesses if we get things

[1:29:59] going like we want to, Liberty Business

[1:30:01] Park in the opportunity zone on on the

[1:30:04] west side of town, those types of

[1:30:05] things.

[1:30:06] >> Okay.

[1:30:06] >> Appreciate the insight. Um

[1:30:09] At the dais, any thoughts or

[1:30:14] >> So, um

[1:30:16] just a very quick thought. And And the

[1:30:18] quick thought is

[1:30:19] uh I'm not against the the 7-year

[1:30:22] agreement. The only thing that I would

[1:30:23] request from staff is um

[1:30:27] maybe a brief annual update just to

[1:30:30] ensure that we're still meeting

[1:30:32] um customer service expectations and

[1:30:35] making sure that we're getting the

[1:30:37] return on investment. And if it's not

[1:30:40] working, uh please be transparent

[1:30:44] >> [snorts]

[1:30:44] >> uh with the council and just say it's

[1:30:47] not working. We need to

[1:30:49] uh cut stop this deal or or

[1:30:53] stop this agree moving forward. Just to

[1:30:55] make sure that we're doing right with

[1:30:58] taxpayer dollars.

[1:31:02] » Um any other thought

[1:31:03] >> Sure.

[1:31:03] >> Sorry. Any other thoughts?

[1:31:05] >> Uh state really quick. Um very beautiful

[1:31:08] presentation. I can see that this can be

[1:31:09] useful in a lot of bigger jurisdictions

[1:31:13] that have a lot more permitting. I wish

[1:31:14] we had that. Uh we were expecting to

[1:31:17] have a huge influx coming in.

[1:31:19] Um I'm personally on a mission to more

[1:31:22] humanize

[1:31:23] uh than automate right now. And I'm just

[1:31:26] kind of going in that direction. So, uh

[1:31:28] that's where I'm coming from right now.

[1:31:30] I'd rather to have humans and

[1:31:32] personalization

[1:31:33] um more than automation and digital uh

[1:31:38] things. I'd much rather on the analog

[1:31:40] run right now. So, that's where I'm at.

[1:31:42] And those are my thoughts.

[1:31:46] » Uh any other thoughts?

[1:31:48] Councilman Negrete, you good?

[1:31:50] >> I'm good. Thank you.

[1:31:52] >> Uh Councilman Kay and Stroman?

[1:31:54] >> I'm good.

[1:31:55] >> [snorts]

[1:31:55] >> Okay. Do we have any Do uh

[1:31:59] >> Are Are a motion on this?

[1:32:00] >> Motions? yeah. Oh, we need to, I think.

[1:32:04] Or do we Yeah.

[1:32:06] >> Uh did we open up to the public?

[1:32:08] >> Yeah, public hearing section. Yeah.

[1:32:10] >> Yeah, that's right.

[1:32:11] >> Mr. Mayor, I'll make a motion to

[1:32:13] [clears throat]

[1:32:14] um

[1:32:16] approve a 7-year agreement with OpenGov.

[1:32:21] Inc. via Virtual Soft with the

[1:32:24] implementation and subscription of a

[1:32:27] digital permitting

[1:32:28] and licensing platform uh with an annual

[1:32:31] check-in with the council to ensure that

[1:32:36] customer service expectations are being

[1:32:38] met from the public.

[1:32:41] And authorize the city manager to

[1:32:43] execute all related documents.

[1:32:47] >> I'll second.

[1:32:48] >> Okay.

[1:32:49] You have a second? All in favor, say

[1:32:51] aye.

[1:32:51] >> Aye.

[1:32:52] All opposed, say nay.

[1:32:53] >> Nay.

[1:32:54] >> Okay.

[1:32:54] >> [clears throat]

[1:32:59] » All right, we'll go on to number nine.

[1:33:05] » Thank you, Council. Uh this this item is

[1:33:08] with

[1:33:10] >> You want to go ahead?

[1:33:11] >> Uh city manager is going to go ahead and

[1:33:12] start this.

[1:33:13] >> Sorry, Travin. I'll just do a

[1:33:15] do an intro here. Um

[1:33:18] I'll turn it over to Travin, and we do

[1:33:20] have uh we have Kim online with Gold

[1:33:22] [clears throat] Back to help answer

[1:33:24] questions. So, this item is an evolution

[1:33:28] of an agenda item request that was made

[1:33:30] back in October 2025

[1:33:32] um by a couple council members, and at

[1:33:35] that the council uh wanted and directed

[1:33:38] staff to really uh share with the

[1:33:40] business community the benefits of

[1:33:43] holding and and having gold um as it had

[1:33:45] just recently um been classified a a

[1:33:48] tier one asset.

[1:33:50] As we were uh kind of exploring that

[1:33:52] further, uh staff, Travin in particular,

[1:33:55] came across Gold Back, and so the

[1:33:57] conversations have have merged a bit

[1:34:01] um in that time. I think uh around the

[1:34:03] first of the year um there was

[1:34:05] presentations to the Economic

[1:34:06] Development Committee from Goldback and

[1:34:08] then to the City Council as well.

[1:34:11] Um to discuss what is basically a

[1:34:14] gold-infused

[1:34:15] currency that they are uh it's a private

[1:34:18] company, privately held, that they are

[1:34:20] um you know, trying to get really up and

[1:34:22] running. Several communities across the

[1:34:24] nation

[1:34:25] um utilize it, several businesses do, um

[1:34:28] but they're they're trying to expand.

[1:34:31] And so um that's kind of the genesis of

[1:34:34] this item. Um back in March, I believe,

[1:34:37] Council directed staff to invite

[1:34:40] Goldback out to Parkfee.

[1:34:42] Um Goldback was at Parkfee. They had a

[1:34:45] relatively successful um venture there.

[1:34:48] They sold tens of thousands of the

[1:34:50] actual product, and they signed up um

[1:34:53] close to two dozen and a little over two

[1:34:55] dozen businesses around the area, not

[1:34:58] just in Escalon. I think about seven

[1:35:00] businesses um are able to accept

[1:35:03] Goldbacks right now in uh Escalon, but

[1:35:06] they were able to sign up about 26

[1:35:08] businesses kind of in the valley, in the

[1:35:09] region.

[1:35:11] And so after the relative success at at

[1:35:14] Parkfee, uh staff started to look into

[1:35:17] becoming a distributor. Um so not one

[1:35:20] that would accept for payment of utility

[1:35:22] bills or something like that, but really

[1:35:24] kind of a centralized hub um for the

[1:35:27] businesses if it really did take off.

[1:35:30] And so with that, I'll I'll turn it over

[1:35:31] to Trevin and and Kim to go through the

[1:35:33] rest of the presentation and answer any

[1:35:35] questions that the council may have.

[1:35:37] >> Yeah, that was a a great uh review of

[1:35:39] the background. Um Jaylen also covered

[1:35:41] um how the distributorship would work.

[1:35:44] Um so uh before you tonight is the

[1:35:46] distributorship agreement. It has

[1:35:48] minimal um purchasing terms.

[1:35:51] Essentially, we'd be

[1:35:53] um

[1:35:54] uh in a nine non-binding contract

[1:35:56] essentially that we would have the

[1:35:57] opportunity to purchase wholesale the

[1:36:00] gold back

[1:36:02] um

[1:36:03] uh tradeable notes from the company

[1:36:05] themselves, and then we would be um

[1:36:08] allowed to sell them here at City Hall.

[1:36:11] Um we There would be a a margin that we

[1:36:13] would get to collect that can offset our

[1:36:16] staff costs for being available to the

[1:36:17] public to distribute those. Um and then

[1:36:20] we would be in order to stay in the in

[1:36:22] the contract and in the partnership, we

[1:36:24] would be required to purchase a minimum

[1:36:26] of 25,000 a year or 2,500 a month. Um

[1:36:30] and so we don't see at this point going

[1:36:33] beyond that. We don't know exactly was

[1:36:36] Park City just a special event that

[1:36:38] everyone felt excited to participate in

[1:36:41] this or is this a constant demand that's

[1:36:44] out there? So, we would uh walk before

[1:36:46] we run, and we would probably just do

[1:36:48] about 2,500 a month, and it would just

[1:36:51] be another thing that we have available

[1:36:52] for the community to help encourage

[1:36:54] shopping local and supporting local and

[1:36:58] um

[1:36:58] creating that small tight-knit community

[1:37:01] where we can uh trade in analog notes

[1:37:04] instead of um credit card payments. Um

[1:37:07] so that's that's the purpose and that's

[1:37:08] the agreement that's that's before you

[1:37:10] for a decision, and then uh Kim is

[1:37:12] online if she has anything to add or if

[1:37:14] you have any questions.

[1:37:15] >> And And I'll just add. So, um

[1:37:17] you know, we asked the question

[1:37:18] directly,

[1:37:20] you know, if it's uh there's not as many

[1:37:23] businesses that are looking to do this,

[1:37:24] what's the requirement? Um they Goldback

[1:37:28] basically said it's an encouragement to hit the minimum thresholds, but if it

[1:37:33] wasn't working for us, there's no um

[1:37:36] specific requirement um to do that. So,

[1:37:39] we can evaluate that over time, but they

[1:37:41] certainly encourage us to to have the

[1:37:44] resources available that's necessary if

[1:37:47] we are going to become a distributor.

[1:37:49] And just to hit home a little bit on on

[1:37:51] the distributor, um

[1:37:54] again, Trevin mentioned this, but we

[1:37:55] would buy the Goldbacks at wholesale,

[1:37:57] sell it, um you know, at at the market

[1:38:00] rate, um which is a little bit of an

[1:38:02] increase, and we'd be a hub for the

[1:38:04] businesses and other community members

[1:38:07] who want to trade, sell, buy, um

[1:38:10] Goldbacks. You could also have an ATM of

[1:38:14] Goldbacks if the uh council was

[1:38:16] interested in that as well. So again,

[1:38:18] you're kind of a a hub for the business

[1:38:20] and resident community who um buy, use,

[1:38:24] trade, and sell these um

[1:38:26] this currency.

[1:38:28] >> Um

[1:38:30] >> [clears throat]

[1:38:30] >> You still got it, Kim.

[1:38:31] >> Okay, Kim.

[1:38:33] you have anything to add to that

[1:38:34] before we

[1:38:36] talk it over?

[1:38:36] >> I I don't. We have Nathan Hallows is on

[1:38:40] the line as well that can speak to the

[1:38:42] details of the distributor agreement, so

[1:38:47] >> Okay. Does he want to go ahead and

[1:38:50] let us know then?

[1:38:50] >> I think we're here just to answer any

[1:38:52] questions you might still have, so

[1:38:55] >> Okay.

[1:38:56] Um any questions up here?

[1:38:59] >> Yeah, just a brief one.

[1:39:00] >> Before I go out to the lobby.

[1:39:00] >> Okay. I'll go first, I think. Please do.

[1:39:03] Go for it, Mr. Rowman.

[1:39:05] >> So, I guess my only question is

[1:39:09] while I I appreciate Goldback coming to

[1:39:11] Park City, um

[1:39:14] if the if we move forward with the

[1:39:15] distributorship,

[1:39:17] uh this is both for for the Goldback

[1:39:19] folks and for Trevin,

[1:39:22] how are we going to

[1:39:24] bring greater awareness to the Goldback

[1:39:27] system for businesses that didn't attend

[1:39:29] Park City or for community members that

[1:39:32] didn't

[1:39:33] that don't know about Park City

[1:39:36] or didn't don't know about Goldback. I

[1:39:38] mean, is there going to be an education

[1:39:40] process? Are we going to introduce this

[1:39:43] to how are we going to roll this out to

[1:39:45] the public?

[1:39:47] >> Yeah, we we don't have

[1:39:49] >> I

[1:39:49] >> Sorry, go ahead.

[1:39:50] >> I think I think one great thing is, you

[1:39:53] know, we have a lot of great literature.

[1:39:54] So, if someone does come in and ask

[1:39:56] questions about gold backs, we have the

[1:39:59] literature that you could hand out, go

[1:40:01] over.

[1:40:02] Uh we have Phil on the line

[1:40:04] uh who, you know, runs this program.

[1:40:07] He and his team are great resources to

[1:40:10] educate, uh be willing to come and do

[1:40:13] more educational uh opportunities that

[1:40:15] you if you have them out there.

[1:40:17] So, we're here to help as much as we can

[1:40:20] and and uh facilitate any educational uh

[1:40:24] processes that we need to as well.

[1:40:26] >> Yeah, I would second what Nathan just

[1:40:28] said. Um

[1:40:30] I would be totally willing to come out

[1:40:32] for a town hall type of meeting and

[1:40:34] educate people.

[1:40:36] I'm heading to one tomorrow, in fact, in

[1:40:38] a similar sized town of 10,000 people.

[1:40:41] Uh we'll all meet with people and and

[1:40:44] do some continued education on gold

[1:40:46] backs. And this is a town that's been

[1:40:48] using gold backs for years, but they

[1:40:50] still have people that want to know a

[1:40:52] little more, so they invite me out at

[1:40:53] least once a year and I go out and

[1:40:55] update them and give them a little more

[1:40:57] education, go around the town and visit

[1:41:00] businesses and see how it's going. Uh

[1:41:02] really be a community partner with you,

[1:41:04] not just come in and try to sell you on

[1:41:07] something. We really see this as a way

[1:41:10] of keeping

[1:41:11] uh money or economics local in your own

[1:41:14] economy, make your own

[1:41:17] you know, local economy and we want to

[1:41:19] be a partner with you in that.

[1:41:21] >> Okay. Uh Councilman Ingle, did you have

[1:41:23] something earlier or no?

[1:41:24] >> Uh I I do. So, a couple things. Um so, I

[1:41:28] spoke spoke on this at the last meeting

[1:41:30] and and I believe

[1:41:32] at the time I believed in it as uh an

[1:41:34] investment vehicle and and I've

[1:41:36] purchased several of these uh several

[1:41:39] years ago and have seen my return

[1:41:41] double.

[1:41:43] However, as I look at the exchange rate

[1:41:45] today with one Goldback being $8.85 and

[1:41:49] spot price of gold being at $4,408,

[1:41:54] it's double the price of spot.

[1:41:57] A- And so, with Goldback,

[1:42:00] I don't really see it as as a currency.

[1:42:03] I see it as a business that that

[1:42:05] potentially is fleecing their customers.

[1:42:07] Uh when we're looking at the amount of

[1:42:09] money that you put in for the amount

[1:42:12] that you get back with an an expectation

[1:42:14] or an anticipation anticipation of the

[1:42:18] uh price of gold increasing,

[1:42:20] it's a total gamble. And the amount that

[1:42:22] we're charging and the fact that we're

[1:42:24] even considering being a wholesaler

[1:42:26] means we're we're potentially

[1:42:28] accepting being part of that business

[1:42:30] model, which is charge double what a

[1:42:32] product is worth, keep a percentage, and

[1:42:35] then pass that disservice on to our

[1:42:37] citizens or customers.

[1:42:39] Uh that's just my my thought and my

[1:42:40] belief. Like, if I think if if uh

[1:42:45] fractional gold is something that you're

[1:42:47] interested in and purchasing as an

[1:42:49] investment,

[1:42:50] maybe that's for you because it has a a

[1:42:52] low floor. You're really able to get in

[1:42:54] there for $8. I think I saw quarter uh

[1:42:56] bills that were also offered, so those

[1:42:58] are probably three or four dollars would

[1:43:00] be just my guess.

[1:43:02] Uh you know, if if that's something that

[1:43:03] you're looking into and potentially

[1:43:05] trying to stack gold, that may be a

[1:43:07] vehicle for you, but as far as

[1:43:09] uh actual assets are concerned, if you

[1:43:12] were to buy

[1:43:14] a you know, an ounce of gold right now,

[1:43:16] it would cost you $4,408

[1:43:19] plus the spot fee from whichever uh

[1:43:22] institution you decide to purchase it from. If you bought an ounce

[1:43:25] worth of gold from Goldback at this

[1:43:27] exchange rate, it would be $8,850.

[1:43:31] » Ouch.

[1:43:32] >> I I I've got something to say to that.

[1:43:34] Uh

[1:43:36] Take that take that

[1:43:38] 1 oz that you just bought and as a

[1:43:39] merchant, you wanted to accept that.

[1:43:42] How do you know that that's even a real

[1:43:44] piece of gold?

[1:43:46] And can you really break it down? And

[1:43:48] most merchants won't have a $16,000

[1:43:50] machine that can fractionalize that to

[1:43:53] actually say it is a gold or not.

[1:43:55] Another piece of that is most if you're truly looking to buy gold

[1:44:02] that's a bullion buyer, gold backs

[1:44:04] aren't for you and and we'll admit that.

[1:44:07] Gold backs are bought to be to be spent

[1:44:10] to be used

[1:44:12] to fractionalize. No one fractionalizes

[1:44:15] gold the way that we do and the cost of

[1:44:18] fractionalize that is very expensive. So

[1:44:20] there is a cost

[1:44:22] to to making a fractional piece of gold.

[1:44:25] So you know there there's a couple things there that if if you are

[1:44:28] looking to do bullion, like go buy you

[1:44:31] know gold coins or bars and hope for the

[1:44:34] price it goes up and then you can sell

[1:44:35] it but a typical

[1:44:37] gold back buyer

[1:44:39] is not a bullion buyer and from our

[1:44:42] research, you know, we don't sell retail

[1:44:44] so we [clears throat] don't have a lot

[1:44:46] of end result data but the data that I

[1:44:50] do have is you know, you know, we sold

[1:44:53] probably 300 million of these and less

[1:44:56] than 1% is ever returned.

[1:44:58] Excuse me, less than 2% is ever

[1:45:00] returned.

[1:45:02] For exchange or to you know, to try to buy back or sell back. So

[1:45:08] >> I applaud

[1:45:09] >> And one other thing to keep in mind too

[1:45:10] is yes it it is at double spot.

[1:45:15] price is

[1:45:17] maintained in your purchasing power. You

[1:45:20] don't lose that spot price

[1:45:22] on on your purchase. So if you bought it

[1:45:24] for $8.85

[1:45:27] Um could spend it for $8.85. You're not

[1:45:30] losing. And yes, there's always a gamble

[1:45:31] with precious metals. They could go up

[1:45:33] or down.

[1:45:34] But if you uh

[1:45:37] look over the past 2 years, those who

[1:45:39] have bought gold and silver have much

[1:45:40] more purchasing power at that double

[1:45:42] spot price than they do less

[1:45:45] >> Um I I do understand what you're saying,

[1:45:48] uh Councilman Ingle. The one thing I'm

[1:45:50] looking at from a more of a 50,000-ft

[1:45:53] level

[1:45:54] is the potential for creating a parallel

[1:45:57] economy in a time where

[1:45:59] there's a potential [clears throat] for

[1:46:01] the dollar to really tank. And

[1:46:04] uh

[1:46:04] it if you look at how gold and silver's

[1:46:07] been used in other countries

[1:46:09] to facilitate

[1:46:11] uh trade and um

[1:46:15] you know, general commerce in a time

[1:46:17] when you start to see hyper-inflatable

[1:46:20] dollars or if you have digital economy

[1:46:24] and for some reason, for example, your

[1:46:27] funds get frozen like the Canadian

[1:46:29] truckers

[1:46:30] then you [clears throat] you do have to

[1:46:32] look at least that potential angle as to

[1:46:37] um the freedom of purchase, the ability

[1:46:40] to still

[1:46:41] exist in an economy when

[1:46:44] things go towards uh putting a chip in

[1:46:47] your hand.

[1:46:48] So, that's kind of where I'm looking at

[1:46:51] it from.

[1:46:52] >> Mr. Murray, I I know I appreciate your thought of alternative currency and

[1:46:56] I I think that's a great idea. Um you

[1:46:59] know, if we just I don't know if we

[1:47:00] could pull it up, but if you look at the

[1:47:02] history of the price of gold, right,

[1:47:04] you'll see this radical spike over the

[1:47:06] last 2 years.

[1:47:08] >> Why do you think that's happening?

[1:47:10] >> Well, I mean

[1:47:12] without like getting super political,

[1:47:14] market manipulation. That's

[1:47:16] my simple answer. Um right? Uh

[1:47:19] and and this is where my fear would

[1:47:22] come, right? Is that large holders or or

[1:47:25] folks who were potentially purchasing,

[1:47:27] you know, with the hopes that it would

[1:47:29] increase in value to make their large

[1:47:32] purchase more more affordable,

[1:47:36] the same time could get left holding the

[1:47:37] bag.

[1:47:38] >> I see what you're saying. I think

[1:47:40] to navigate around that potentially,

[1:47:42] you'd have to make sure that people knew

[1:47:44] that,

[1:47:45] you know, it's not

[1:47:47] intended to be an investment, it's

[1:47:50] intended to potentially stabilize a

[1:47:53] local economy in a time of of need, and

[1:47:57] it's not something people have to do.

[1:47:59] >> Well, just just today, Mr. Mayor, you're

[1:48:01] you if you were to to have had, you

[1:48:03] know, let's say

[1:48:06] an ounce worth or, you know, you would

[1:48:08] have lost $32 today. The market

[1:48:10] fluctuates daily, and I know that their

[1:48:12] system is attached to that. And and so,

[1:48:13] your your dollar's vary from day to day.

[1:48:17] >> And and I I get that it's not a perfect

[1:48:19] process, but I also get the fact that

[1:48:22] our our dollar's being diluted.

[1:48:24] It's going to continue to. The

[1:48:26] government's already decided they're

[1:48:28] going to print and print and print. It's

[1:48:31] in their mandate of the Treasury now.

[1:48:33] And so,

[1:48:35] at what point do we hit a hyperinflation

[1:48:37] event, and now

[1:48:39] uh our citizens are coming up with a

[1:48:41] wheelbarrow of cash to buy something

[1:48:44] when they

[1:48:45] could have had this other option that

[1:48:47] stabilizes their family. So, I guess

[1:48:50] that's where I'm at. I mean, I could be

[1:48:53] completely crazy, off the rocker, but I

[1:48:55] do think that it's something that having

[1:48:58] it available in some way in our

[1:49:00] community, and it doesn't have to be

[1:49:02] through our city, it could be through,

[1:49:04] you know, another um

[1:49:06] community [clears throat] member putting

[1:49:07] in the machine or ATM machine, but it is

[1:49:11] something that,

[1:49:13] you know, when you look at the general

[1:49:15] direction of the currency, the amount of

[1:49:18] printing that's going to continue to

[1:49:20] happen.

[1:49:21] Um

[1:49:22] I'm very concerned for the community and

[1:49:25] making sure that it stays stable.

[1:49:28] So, that's kind of where I'm coming

[1:49:29] from.

[1:49:30] >> Mayor, may I ask a question?

[1:49:31] >> Yeah.

[1:49:32] >> Um so, for online, Kim or Phil or

[1:49:35] Nathan, whoever wants to answer this.

[1:49:37] Um

[1:49:38] I was looking at the distributors uh

[1:49:40] online and what distributors there are

[1:49:43] and I didn't see, at least in our area

[1:49:45] and going too far out of California, but

[1:49:47] any city entities that were

[1:49:50] distributors. Are there other city

[1:49:52] governments that are are distributing

[1:49:54] Goldbacks right now?

[1:49:59] » This would be a first.

[1:50:02] >> Okay.

[1:50:03] Uh okay, and then so, we I I did see

[1:50:06] that our closest one is in Riverbank.

[1:50:08] It's an ATM. I meant to go try and find

[1:50:11] it. I haven't quite uh found it yet. Is

[1:50:14] there any uh private businesses in

[1:50:18] Escalon or even closer to from the the

[1:50:21] closest one to us that have had interest

[1:50:24] in becoming distributors uh in town?

[1:50:30] » I think that's a Phil question.

[1:50:32] >> Okay.

[1:50:33] >> Phil?

[1:50:33] >> No, that's a By the way, there are other

[1:50:35] municipalities

[1:50:36] >> question. So,

[1:50:38] >> That would be a Nathan or Brandon. I

[1:50:39] don't know if Brandon's on here.

[1:50:41] Um I can get you that information. I

[1:50:44] don't have it readily at hand, um but I

[1:50:46] can get that sent to Trevin and let you

[1:50:48] know

[1:50:49] who is near you.

[1:50:51] >> I do know that when we had our last

[1:50:53] meeting and and we were talking with

[1:50:55] just Trevin, um there wasn't

[1:50:59] anything a major distributor anywhere

[1:51:02] too close to where you are.

[1:51:03] >> Well, Riverbank is close. I mean, that's

[1:51:05] a [clears throat] 12-minute, 15-minute

[1:51:07] drive. It wouldn't be too bad to go get

[1:51:09] those.

[1:51:10] >> You're You're saying that there's a uh

[1:51:12] gold ATM in Riverbank, is that right?

[1:51:16] >> That's what the website's telling us

[1:51:18] here, yeah.

[1:51:19] >> Okay.

[1:51:19] >> So we were just I'm my question is if

[1:51:22] any businesses in town have expressed

[1:51:25] interest in becoming distributors here.

[1:51:31] » Not to my knowledge.

[1:51:32] >> Okay.

[1:51:33] Thank you.

[1:51:35] >> Regardless of the how gold sign on the

[1:51:38] vote

[1:51:39] hopefully it'd be nice if you guys would

[1:51:42] be

[1:51:43] you know, still committed to coming and

[1:51:44] talking to our local businesses about

[1:51:46] the idea.

[1:51:48] And

[1:51:49] whether it goes left or right, it's up

[1:51:52] to them, but at least I deliver an

[1:51:54] option

[1:51:55] for the future. So if it doesn't go the

[1:51:57] way we want it to, then at least it's

[1:52:00] off my conscience.

[1:52:04] So

[1:52:06] we want to put it out to the community.

[1:52:08] Anyone out in the community like to talk

[1:52:10] to this?

[1:52:14] » [clears throat]

[1:52:17] » I think

[1:52:18] Councilman Engel had it on the nose.

[1:52:20] It's speculation.

[1:52:22] And individually, I speculate on certain

[1:52:25] things. Everybody you know, has a chance

[1:52:28] to do that. But if you decide to do

[1:52:31] this, you're speculating with the entire

[1:52:33] community's

[1:52:34] money and not just

[1:52:37] a few. Some people are going to be

[1:52:38] totally against it. My biggest thought

[1:52:40] is

[1:52:42] like Councilman Engel pointed out

[1:52:45] when but

[1:52:46] maybe a year ago

[1:52:48] 5,500

[1:52:50] for a ounce of gold

[1:52:52] that was 44.

[1:52:54] You know, it might go back up, it might

[1:52:55] go back down. But if you look at the

[1:52:57] history of gold

[1:52:59] it's one of these.

[1:53:01] And it's basically has followed the

[1:53:02] dollar, too. And I agree that the dollar

[1:53:05] is in sad shape. But,

[1:53:08] there's there's too much speculation, I

[1:53:10] think, to take on for a city government

[1:53:13] and taxpayer money.

[1:53:15] >> Appreciate that.

[1:53:21] Anyone else? Oh, never mind. Anyone else

[1:53:23] like to speak to this topic at all?

[1:53:26] right. Bring it back to the dais.

[1:53:29] >> I have a question, actually, for

[1:53:32] city attorney, but he left. So,

[1:53:35] I'll ask the the city manager.

[1:53:38] Um

[1:53:41] Have we confirmed that there are no

[1:53:43] um

[1:53:45] legal

[1:53:47] issues

[1:53:49] if the city of Escondido were to become

[1:53:51] a distributor distributor for

[1:53:54] essentially what is

[1:53:55] a private business?

[1:53:58] >> Yeah, I think there would be more luck

[1:54:00] if if the the council decided to yes,

[1:54:02] explore this, um we would go through the

[1:54:06] contracting greater detail. We would do

[1:54:08] our end of the research. We have not

[1:54:11] done that research up front. If the

[1:54:14] council didn't want to explore it, we

[1:54:15] don't want to waste time and money on

[1:54:17] um something that the council wasn't

[1:54:19] interested in. So, yes, we would dot our

[1:54:21] eyes and cross our t's um prior to final

[1:54:24] execution.

[1:54:26] >> Maybe the [clears throat] better answer

[1:54:27] is just not to do it through the

[1:54:30] government.

[1:54:31] >> Yeah, Mr.

[1:54:32] >> That was going to be my suggestion. But,

[1:54:34] you know, if maybe the EDC could, you

[1:54:36] know, set a small portion aside to

[1:54:39] explore businesses that may be

[1:54:40] interested. It seems more like an an an

[1:54:44] independent decision, um rather than a

[1:54:46] city-based decision, which, you know,

[1:54:48] potentially could put us in harm's way.

[1:54:50] But, Mr. Mayor, again, I do appreciate

[1:54:52] uh your attention to uh

[1:54:56] what's happening financially in the

[1:54:57] United States. And and as I I know that

[1:55:00] you already do, but just to say it

[1:55:01] publicly, you know, I would encourage

[1:55:03] some exploration in the digital currency

[1:55:04] as well. It's not a commitment, but

[1:55:08] exploration.

[1:55:09] >> Yeah, I I I don't have a problem with

[1:55:11] digital, just so you're aware.

[1:55:14] Um

[1:55:15] because

[1:55:17] it does make things more convenient at

[1:55:18] times. However,

[1:55:21] yeah, we saw it with the Canadian

[1:55:23] truckers how

[1:55:25] you can get shut down digitally,

[1:55:28] right? So, it's not a leap to think that

[1:55:31] our government is going sideways, in my

[1:55:34] opinion,

[1:55:36] uh could very easily do things

[1:55:38] that aren't in our best interest,

[1:55:41] and down the road we're um eating out of trash can cuz you

[1:55:45] can't get your money.

[1:55:47] You know, so so those are the kind of

[1:55:48] things I don't know. I'll

[1:55:53] keep it to myself at this point, but I

[1:55:55] do think that it's something that every

[1:55:58] person should really be opening their

[1:56:00] eyes and kind of

[1:56:01] doing their due diligence. It's It's

[1:56:03] important.

[1:56:04] >> All right, he's back. Can I ask my

[1:56:06] question again?

[1:56:07] >> Yep.

[1:56:09] >> I'm sorry.

[1:56:11] >> Thanks, Frank.

[1:56:11] >> I had no idea.

[1:56:13] So, so my question is

[1:56:16] um to

[1:56:18] what

[1:56:19] Council Member Angle mentioned,

[1:56:22] is there any sort of legal concern for

[1:56:26] essentially what the city becoming a

[1:56:29] distributor for a

[1:56:31] private business, and could there any be

[1:56:34] could there be the potential for any

[1:56:37] sort of long-term

[1:56:40] exposure or risk to the city if so if

[1:56:44] say somebody comes and invests in gold

[1:56:46] backs,

[1:56:48] could they come back to the city of

[1:56:49] Escalon and say, "Well, you're the

[1:56:51] distributor. I bought it for you, and I

[1:56:53] didn't get the return on investment that looking for, so therefore

[1:56:57] you should be

[1:56:59] held partially responsible for that as

[1:57:01] well.

[1:57:02] >> It could if you look at it as an

[1:57:03] investment.

[1:57:04] >> [laughter]

[1:57:05] >> Right?

[1:57:05] >> Yeah, I mean I would just say this is

[1:57:07] America, so you can sue anybody over

[1:57:09] anything at any time.

[1:57:11] Um

[1:57:12] if you are if the city's going to if the

[1:57:14] city's going to act as a private actor

[1:57:16] in the pri- private marketplace, it's

[1:57:18] going to expose itself to all the suites

[1:57:20] of claims, damages, lawsuits than any

[1:57:23] business would. So, you are adding risk.

[1:57:25] And what I would say is this,

[1:57:28] um that kind of risk is not insurable.

[1:57:31] We have uh we have um

[1:57:34] general we don't have we don't have

[1:57:35] insurance. Cities don't have insurance,

[1:57:37] but they have something like insurance,

[1:57:38] okay? For our purposes, I'm going to

[1:57:39] call it insurance.

[1:57:41] Um and it covers your slip-and-fall

[1:57:45] uh general liability type risk that

[1:57:47] cities normally operate in. If we are

[1:57:49] now operating in the private sector,

[1:57:52] we would

[1:57:53] our our joint powers authority wouldn't

[1:57:55] cover that risk.

[1:57:56] >> I I guess what I would ask if the guy

[1:57:58] asked is just a table this, and then um

[1:58:02] if I could get the contact information

[1:58:04] of the people up there, uh maybe I'll

[1:58:06] pursue it through my own uh endeavors

[1:58:09] outside of the city.

[1:58:11] Uh that would probably be better.

[1:58:13] Um is that is it possible to get your

[1:58:16] contact information?

[1:58:18] It doesn't have to be over the phone or

[1:58:19] over the

[1:58:21] >> Yes, we can get it to you.

[1:58:23] >> Okay, I really appreciate it.

[1:58:24] >> And and and and also, man, I want to

[1:58:26] kind of follow up on what you're what

[1:58:27] you were talking about digital currency

[1:58:29] is

[1:58:30] uh

[1:58:32] I was at a conference in Canada about

[1:58:35] two about a 18 months ago. It was after

[1:58:37] the North Carolina floods. I don't know

[1:58:39] if you remember that, where everything

[1:58:42] uh just collapsed. No internet, no

[1:58:45] power.

[1:58:46] And I had ran into two guys in Canada

[1:58:49] that were at that helping clean up, and

[1:58:51] they said, "We saw your currency being

[1:58:55] used as it should have." No, they were

[1:58:57] bartering with for milk, for gas, for

[1:59:00] eggs with the gold backs. And that

[1:59:03] that's truly one of the main purposes of of our fractional gold. It you can use it to barter for such things

[1:59:11] in in in

[1:59:13] instances where you're not going to have

[1:59:16] power.

[1:59:17] Cuz it inevitably will happen to us.

[1:59:19] Digital currency will not be able to be

[1:59:21] used.

[1:59:22] This is this and and gold over the test

[1:59:25] of time has held its held held its

[1:59:27] power.

[1:59:28] Um they used this way thousands and

[1:59:31] thousands of years ago for for payment

[1:59:32] and for bartering. So,

[1:59:35] we appreciate you guys looking at gold

[1:59:37] back. We really do. We think it's a

[1:59:39] great uh could be a great part of your

[1:59:41] community uh for whatever choice or

[1:59:44] whichever way you go down in the but we

[1:59:46] do appreciate your time that you helped

[1:59:48] uh uh put into gold back.

[1:59:50] >> Okay. I'll appreciate your time and um

[1:59:53] unless the dais has any other thoughts

[1:59:55] >> I have one more.

[1:59:55] >> Okay, please.

[1:59:56] >> No, I just wanted to state that I am a

[1:59:59] big supporter of parallel currency uh

[2:00:01] separate from the Fed and Fed separate

[2:00:04] from the government. Um I don't

[2:00:06] necessarily feel like this is separate

[2:00:07] from the government having them be a

[2:00:09] distributor as much as I trust our city

[2:00:12] government, but it separate from the

[2:00:13] government would be uh where this would

[2:00:16] be. And I

[2:00:17] >> Makes sense.

[2:00:18] >> I I do support the parallel currency and

[2:00:20] I really like the idea of gold backs in

[2:00:22] general, but probably not uh through the

[2:00:24] city of Escondido.

[2:00:26] >> I'm sorry.

[2:00:26] >> Yeah.

[2:00:27] >> Councilman Nico

[2:00:27] >> Yeah, Mr. If there were truly a

[2:00:29] destabilization event that were to take

[2:00:31] place in our area,

[2:00:33] it's it's the immediate trade and barter

[2:00:36] that this would affect, right? We're

[2:00:37] talking minutes or hours while grocery

[2:00:40] store shelves or

[2:00:42] stock piles reduced. After that, we

[2:00:44] we're talking a supply chain issue. So,

[2:00:46] I think that, you know, while there is,

[2:00:48] you know, a potential use for that in a

[2:00:49] barter situation and and in the

[2:00:51] immediate, um one, you know, uh

[2:00:55] early adopters would be at an advantage.

[2:00:58] The the majority of our community who

[2:00:59] probably wouldn't adopt in that would be

[2:01:01] kind of left out in the cold and it

[2:01:03] would be a have and have not situation,

[2:01:04] which I think

[2:01:06] in a destabilization event, chaos would

[2:01:08] ensue, but the fact that some people are

[2:01:11] uh not not being treated equitably would

[2:01:14] create additional destabilization

[2:01:16] in a small community. Uh it's just my my

[2:01:18] guess. I hope that we never ever see

[2:01:20] this and we're just we're just talking

[2:01:21] in hopes of preparation for a worst case

[2:01:23] scenario.

[2:01:25] But, I

[2:01:26] if we're completely off the grid, the

[2:01:28] stores aren't going to be able to

[2:01:29] reorder, phones aren't going to work,

[2:01:32] internet's not going to work. Like, it's

[2:01:33] what you have on hand.

[2:01:35] >> Uh-huh.

[2:01:35] >> And that's that's if you go and and talk

[2:01:38] to the people that have already

[2:01:40] experienced that from other countries,

[2:01:43] uh gold and silver saved them.

[2:01:46] So, it's just something to be aware of.

[2:01:48] We don't have to talk about it anymore.

[2:01:50] Um

[2:01:52] Can we go ahead and table it?

[2:01:53] If everyone's good with that. Table?

[2:01:55] Okay.

[2:01:55] >> Sure.

[2:01:56] >> All right, we'll go on to number

[2:01:59] 10.

[2:02:02] Thank you, Barry.

[2:02:03] >> Uh this is a continuation of an item

[2:02:06] that was discussed at the last meeting

[2:02:08] uh in regard to a specific request to

[2:02:10] attend a conference. At that time, uh

[2:02:13] council directed staff to come back and

[2:02:16] put a broader framework or a policy

[2:02:19] around um council member travel for

[2:02:23] training purposes, for networking

[2:02:25] purposes.

[2:02:26] And so, this item presents that travel

[2:02:29] policy.

[2:02:31] Um

[2:02:33] What we also mentioned at the last

[2:02:34] meeting is if there was desired by the

[2:02:37] council to uh adopt a slate. Um so, some

[2:02:42] indication, some not that um generally

[2:02:44] Council would like to attend X number of

[2:02:47] sessions and X number of council members

[2:02:50] per session so that we are more

[2:02:53] transparent to the community. We are

[2:02:56] helping the budget process so we're

[2:02:58] aware

[2:03:00] and

[2:03:01] you know Council members can plan their

[2:03:05] vacations and meetings and and other

[2:03:07] things around that.

[2:03:09] It just be more transparent I think for

[2:03:12] everyone.

[2:03:14] Um, so what we've also done in the staff

[2:03:16] report is look at I'll say six. We've

[2:03:20] included five in the staff report but I

[2:03:21] was reminded of one later.

[2:03:24] So in the staff report there are three

[2:03:26] from Cal Cities which is the primary

[2:03:28] body associated

[2:03:31] with kind of Council member and staff

[2:03:33] training in California.

[2:03:35] It is a lobbying group. Their overall

[2:03:37] stated mission is to really support the

[2:03:41] local communities cities in particular

[2:03:44] you know against the state and and

[2:03:46] federal government.

[2:03:48] Of course

[2:03:49] we're a big state. We have communities

[2:03:53] as small as a couple hundred up to you

[2:03:55] know several million

[2:03:57] and everywhere in between and so

[2:04:00] ideologically we are different as well

[2:04:03] and so so is Cal Cities right as an

[2:04:05] organization for sure.

[2:04:08] But they do provide you know what I

[2:04:10] would call generally

[2:04:13] politically neutral content for Council

[2:04:16] members and

[2:04:19] staff.

[2:04:20] There's also a couple of economic based

[2:04:25] groups that are out there and we've

[2:04:27] highlighted a couple of conferences.

[2:04:30] One's the California Economic Summit by

[2:04:32] Cal Forward and then Cal Ed just

[2:04:35] California Economic Development

[2:04:36] Corporation basically, is the Rural

[2:04:39] Economic Development Exchange.

[2:04:41] The one that I omitted

[2:04:44] was the One Voice trip, which was

[2:04:47] discussed and raised by a Council Member

[2:04:49] Engel and attended most recently by

[2:04:52] Council Member Stroman.

[2:04:54] That is a lobbying effort at the cog

[2:04:56] level, the regional level, the county

[2:04:58] level,

[2:04:59] particularly around transportation

[2:05:02] projects.

[2:05:03] So, this was a a new endeavor for the

[2:05:06] City of Escalon to attend that

[2:05:09] and really put us

[2:05:11] a bit on the map in terms of of that

[2:05:14] effort.

[2:05:15] So, staff in the staff report presented

[2:05:19] kind of five or six options for the

[2:05:22] Council to consider. Of course, that

[2:05:24] doesn't have to be 100%. We walked

[2:05:26] through the policy that if there was one

[2:05:28] off that made sense within the framework

[2:05:30] of the policy that was adopted, if it is

[2:05:32] adopted, those could be brought up.

[2:05:37] And so, I can just walk through the

[2:05:40] policy a little bit.

[2:05:42] Maybe if we can go to attachment one,

[2:05:44] scroll down a bit.

[2:05:47] It is three-page, I think, policy. We

[2:05:50] start with a policy purpose purpose and

[2:05:52] statement. A few of

[2:05:56] There's a few blanks left for the

[2:05:58] Council to really weigh in on

[2:06:00] [clears throat]

[2:06:02] their thoughts on training and travel as

[2:06:05] it pertains to Council members.

[2:06:08] And we talk about authorization. We talk

[2:06:10] about, you know, kind of needing Council

[2:06:13] approval,

[2:06:14] but working within the kind of slate, if

[2:06:16] that is adopted. We talk about eligible

[2:06:20] expenses,

[2:06:21] particularly registration and lodging.

[2:06:24] There's a preference for that to be done

[2:06:27] with a city credit card

[2:06:29] just to will

[2:06:30] any potential for over reimbursement,

[2:06:35] questions or concerns with

[2:06:37] reimbursement, um something that that

[2:06:39] went wrong.

[2:06:40] Um in that section, we talk about

[2:06:43] overnight stays and a strong preference

[2:06:45] for not having an overnight stay if it's

[2:06:47] a one-day trip or one-day travel.

[2:06:50] We talk about um the council really

[2:06:52] committing to be good fiscal stewards

[2:06:54] and not um

[2:06:57] staying longer than absolutely needed.

[2:07:01] Uh we talk about transportation and

[2:07:03] essentially the four transportation

[2:07:05] options using the seat city vehicle,

[2:07:07] which is the least costly, airfare,

[2:07:10] rental vehicle, or personal vehicle. Um

[2:07:13] again, we talk about being um making the

[2:07:15] most logical but economical choice in

[2:07:20] um

[2:07:21] in the transportation.

[2:07:23] Um it doesn't say you have to go with

[2:07:25] the lowest choice cuz there will be

[2:07:26] extenuating circumstances occasionally.

[2:07:29] Um

[2:07:30] And so, we we talk about just being good

[2:07:32] fiscal stewards. We talk about meals,

[2:07:35] um really trying to use the conference

[2:07:36] meals if there are to minimize um the

[2:07:40] outlay by the city. We talk about the

[2:07:42] proximate uh process for reimbursement.

[2:07:45] Talk about prohibited expenses.

[2:07:49] And then we talk about report back. So,

[2:07:51] if a council member attends a

[2:07:52] conference, uh at the next council

[2:07:54] meeting or thereafter, really reporting

[2:07:56] back what was learned, uh what was

[2:07:58] gained, why it was important, that type

[2:08:00] of thing. Um not only for the rest of

[2:08:02] the council members to kind of learn

[2:08:04] from that, but also to share with the

[2:08:06] community kind of the benefits um from

[2:08:08] that particular endeavor.

[2:08:11] And then audits. We talk in here and we

[2:08:13] want to make it, you know, known that um

[2:08:16] periodically or as needed, um finance

[2:08:19] department will audit any

[2:08:21] reimbursements, any travel, just to

[2:08:24] ensure that it is following the policy.

[2:08:27] Um so, that is a thumbnail sketch of the

[2:08:30] drafted policy. Happy to answer any

[2:08:32] questions that the council may have. Uh

[2:08:34] also happy to take direction on changes,

[2:08:37] tweaks, modifications um that the

[2:08:39] council would like to see really for for

[2:08:41] their travel policy, travel

[2:08:42] [clears throat] and training.

[2:08:43] >> Uh any questions up here?

[2:08:46] >> I I just have one statement.

[2:08:48] Uh and that's for the um the mayor and

[2:08:51] council member academy, so the every odd year. So uh just my opinion, I

[2:08:56] think that should be mandatory for

[2:08:59] incoming council members

[2:09:02] to give them that opportunity to

[2:09:05] get that broader view of what other uh

[2:09:08] city representatives are doing and give

[2:09:09] them the opportunity to to network so

[2:09:12] they have uh

[2:09:13] ears and eyes to pull from as as they go

[2:09:16] through their tenure.

[2:09:19] >> I'll I'd say I I if not mandatory, at

[2:09:21] least highly recommended.

[2:09:24] Um

[2:09:25] >> Highly recommend. I'm on board with

[2:09:26] that. Sure.

[2:09:27] >> Yeah, highly recommend. I assumed you're

[2:09:29] going, why wouldn't you be?

[2:09:31] Um but I even returning

[2:09:34] you get a lot out of that. There there

[2:09:36] the legal updates and uh issue updates

[2:09:39] every 2 years of what's current right

[2:09:41] now. So you have all of the um

[2:09:44] different assemblies for those and and

[2:09:47] whatnot. So there's a lot of great

[2:09:48] education in that. But uh

[2:09:51] >> I feel like you guys are kind of beating

[2:09:53] me up here and I just want to say there

[2:09:54] was no availability when I got elected,

[2:09:55] okay?

[2:09:56] >> [laughter]

[2:09:57] >> You were late and we will not hopefully

[2:09:59] we won't be late again.

[2:10:02] >> [clears throat]

[2:10:02] >> I might be I might be in the minority

[2:10:04] here, which is fine. I I just don't I

[2:10:07] just can't get behind spending the money

[2:10:09] for

[2:10:10] these things. Uh

[2:10:12] I just think it puts a target on our

[2:10:13] back. It's a networking thing. Um

[2:10:17] It's just my opinion.

[2:10:19] But uh like I said

[2:10:21] um I can see where you could go network

[2:10:24] and do that kind of thing, but

[2:10:26] yeah.

[2:10:28] I think these are things you can do

[2:10:30] online yourself, zooms, all that kind of

[2:10:32] stuff, but that's my opinion.

[2:10:35] I don't know. You guys have any

[2:10:36] thoughts?

[2:10:38] >> Yeah, actually, but

[2:10:40] sounds like council member Cagle is

[2:10:41] getting ready to

[2:10:42] >> Yeah, I'll go first.

[2:10:44] I I

[2:10:46] don't want to 100% you know discourage

[2:10:48] us networking with with other you know

[2:10:50] cities, other areas,

[2:10:52] you know, other council members, mayors,

[2:10:54] you know, whatnot. I don't think that

[2:10:56] necessarily you know puts a target on

[2:10:58] our back. I don't think

[2:11:00] I understand you what your your point of

[2:11:02] view there that the more exposure that a

[2:11:04] small town like ours has to larger

[2:11:07] cities more opportunity for a larger

[2:11:10] city to say, "Hey, they got a lot a lot

[2:11:12] of land. Why don't we go try and develop

[2:11:13] over there?"

[2:11:14] And I think that's kind of

[2:11:16] [clears throat]

[2:11:17] you know your your line of thinking

[2:11:19] there. I do think that there is you know

[2:11:22] definitely

[2:11:24] some advantage to be had in you know

[2:11:26] hearing other points of view, things

[2:11:27] that they're looking at, things that

[2:11:28] they're talking about, things they're

[2:11:29] doing in their cities.

[2:11:31] So I I I don't think you know it should

[2:11:33] be a a blanket you know no we shouldn't

[2:11:35] you know allow X, Y, or Z, but I

[2:11:37] definitely do think there should be a

[2:11:38] limitation.

[2:11:40] Council member Eagles suggestion of a of

[2:11:42] a mandatory

[2:11:44] apparently

[2:11:45] all three of you seem to have thought

[2:11:47] that you got something really good out

[2:11:49] of that when you went.

[2:11:51] Right.

[2:11:51] >> I guess what I'm looking at is like how

[2:11:53] much

[2:11:54] can't you get the same out of a zoom

[2:11:56] meeting?

[2:11:57] >> But you you can attend these things

[2:11:59] virtually.

[2:12:01] The the the things that they're talking

[2:12:02] about you can't attend virtually and

[2:12:05] you know I I will say you know I I work

[2:12:07] in a a completely remote environment. I

[2:12:09] see you know my actual co-workers I may

[2:12:11] see them twice a year you know in total.

[2:12:14] You know those moments definitely build

[2:12:15] the relationships a lot more than you

[2:12:16] know the phone calls and the Zoom

[2:12:17] meetings. So,

[2:12:19] uh I do think that there is an advantage

[2:12:21] to in-person

[2:12:22] uh attendance, as well. Um anyway, I

[2:12:25] [clears throat] I I do like, you know,

[2:12:26] the the suggestion, you know, that you

[2:12:27] know, whatever it is that you guys, you

[2:12:29] know, got out of that that you thought

[2:12:30] was so beneficial. Uh I mean, I'd sure

[2:12:32] like to to get my hands on it, as well.

[2:12:34] Uh and I think that, you know, if it's

[2:12:35] something that is that beneficial, um

[2:12:38] let me ask you, do you is that something

[2:12:40] that we should be like on a rotation of,

[2:12:42] you know, council members, you know, if

[2:12:43] they're, you know, elected to do a

[2:12:44] second term, should they they also be

[2:12:47] attending it again?

[2:12:49] Is it

[2:12:49] >> It's my opinion that they should. So,

[2:12:51] because of the updates, the legal

[2:12:52] updates, the issue updates, like, for

[2:12:54] example, 2 years ago, data centers

[2:12:57] wouldn't be in the conversation.

[2:12:59] Right? And flock cameras wouldn't be in

[2:13:01] the conversation. And now we have those

[2:13:03] updates, where we'll be able to get more

[2:13:05] information on what these things are,

[2:13:07] and it's not just from your Instagram

[2:13:10] reels. And like, it's actual information

[2:13:13] of what contracts say, and how do they

[2:13:15] affect cities, and how they go in and go

[2:13:17] out, and how decisions are made. So, um

[2:13:21] >> Well, that's stuff you can

[2:13:22] >> So, the same way as I go to other

[2:13:25] conferences for other professional, you

[2:13:27] know, your real estate conferences every

[2:13:29] year, they have legal updates. Like,

[2:13:31] things are done different. The contracts

[2:13:33] change here and there. So, um

[2:13:36] that's why I would think every 2 years

[2:13:39] it is nice to go and get those issue

[2:13:41] updates and legal updates.

[2:13:43] >> Well, I I would think that um you know,

[2:13:45] those kind of updates you're you're

[2:13:46] talking about are also going to, you

[2:13:48] know, alert us to things that may be

[2:13:49] coming down the pipeline that we may not

[2:13:50] be unaware of,

[2:13:52] uh you know, as a council, you know, or

[2:13:53] that that staff, you know, may slipped

[2:13:55] underneath their radar at some point,

[2:13:57] you know, that kind of thing.

[2:13:58] Uh you know, so, I think there you know,

[2:13:59] there is a possibility of of being able

[2:14:01] to stay, you know, ahead of a problem

[2:14:04] uh if you're getting information from

[2:14:05] those kind of sources. So, that's, you

[2:14:07] know, my take on it. Like I said, I've

[2:14:08] never attended any of these things,

[2:14:09] aside from uh you know, the the one

[2:14:11] thing that I mentioned our our last

[2:14:13] discussion about this.

[2:14:14] Um So, I don't have a a big scope to to

[2:14:17] go on there, but I think that we should

[2:14:20] definitely do this on a limited level.

[2:14:22] We shouldn't be just wasting tax

[2:14:23] dollars, you know, flying all over the

[2:14:24] country and and you know, doing

[2:14:26] attending everything that pops up.

[2:14:29] But I do think that some of these things

[2:14:31] probably are

[2:14:32] maybe not necessary, but should be

[2:14:35] encouraged just to be sure that we are

[2:14:37] staying up to date with the the newest

[2:14:39] things and making, you know, contacts

[2:14:41] and

[2:14:42] you know, that sort of thing you know,

[2:14:43] with other communities that are similar.

[2:14:45] There are similar communities out there

[2:14:46] that we may be the only Echelon, but

[2:14:48] there are other little towns that are just like us in in a lot of fashions

[2:14:52] and forms.

[2:14:53] >> I really think that was the largest

[2:14:55] benefit for that Cal Cities meeting was

[2:14:57] to be able to network with

[2:14:59] several small communities similar to our

[2:15:02] own in in one visit.

[2:15:05] There was a lot that was learned

[2:15:08] at least by myself and and you know, I

[2:15:09] think there's a lot of energy coming

[2:15:10] into it when you still have, you know,

[2:15:12] hopes and dreams of being a public

[2:15:14] servant until they're kind of dashed and

[2:15:16] stomped on by the reality of the

[2:15:17] service. Um

[2:15:19] you know, if if I could say one

[2:15:22] or make one suggestion and I think that

[2:15:25] the policy and everything looks great

[2:15:27] and all of us may have different ideas

[2:15:30] or intentions on things we'd like to

[2:15:32] further educate ourselves about. I would

[2:15:34] just throw it out there that the council had potential to to do one

[2:15:41] event per year per council member and

[2:15:42] that kind of gives them the opportunity

[2:15:44] to

[2:15:45] go to the one that they want to or or

[2:15:47] maybe kind of team up. I know if if for

[2:15:50] whatever reason I I do win my seat

[2:15:53] and I stay on cog, I will definitely,

[2:15:55] you know, be attending next year's one

[2:15:57] voice trip. So, that would be my I okay,

[2:15:59] I want to go to that one. But for

[2:16:02] everybody else, I mean, I think we heard

[2:16:03] feedback from uh both uh Councilman

[2:16:06] Walker and Stroman uh about their desire

[2:16:08] to to visit this um

[2:16:11] annual conference. So, you know, I

[2:16:13] think, you know, one a year per council

[2:16:15] member is is a um

[2:16:18] kind of a a fair and balanced, you know,

[2:16:20] offering.

[2:16:23] Uh any other thoughts on this side

[2:16:25] before we go out to public?

[2:16:27] >> So,

[2:16:28] briefly,

[2:16:29] um

[2:16:30] actually I have a question.

[2:16:31] So, this may be getting in the weeds a

[2:16:34] little bit too much, uh but when it

[2:16:36] comes to vehicles, what's not mentioned

[2:16:39] is um

[2:16:41] insurance.

[2:16:42] And so, I would just would like to some

[2:16:45] sort of clarification as far as

[2:16:48] if there is

[2:16:49] if you use a personal vehicle, does the

[2:16:52] city's insurance

[2:16:53] cover you?

[2:16:55] Uh if you use a rental vehicle,

[2:16:58] are you required to buy the the rental

[2:17:02] the rip-off rental car insurance?

[2:17:05] Um

[2:17:07] but the other thing that I that I want

[2:17:09] to mention and and

[2:17:11] Mayor, I understand your perspective

[2:17:13] about um

[2:17:15] couldn't you just jump on a Zoom?

[2:17:17] There are I can speak from experience.

[2:17:20] There are many many

[2:17:22] uh networking possibilities

[2:17:25] um

[2:17:26] for

[2:17:27] mayors and council members within Cal

[2:17:29] Cities.

[2:17:31] However,

[2:17:32] um

[2:17:34] there's also something that we said

[2:17:37] about networking, meeting face-to-face.

[2:17:41] For example,

[2:17:42] um

[2:17:43] at the Mayor and Council Members Academy

[2:17:45] that

[2:17:47] Councilman Angle and Councilman Walker,

[2:17:49] myself, and former Mayor Bellinger

[2:17:51] attended,

[2:17:52] um we met with representatives from City

[2:17:56] Riverbank

[2:17:57] and developed those connections.

[2:18:00] And I think most people realize um

[2:18:04] City Riverbank has a very big

[2:18:07] um

[2:18:08] ballot measure coming in November.

[2:18:11] And uh with River the potential for

[2:18:13] Riverwalk.

[2:18:15] And through networking opportunities

[2:18:18] um

[2:18:20] I can't speak for Councilmember Engler Councilmember or Mayor Pro Tem

[2:18:25] Walker.

[2:18:26] But I made a phone call to those

[2:18:30] representatives within the city of

[2:18:32] Riverbank that I developed a

[2:18:33] relationship with at the Mayor and

[2:18:35] Councilmember Academy and I said

[2:18:38] "Hell no, we don't need this Riverwalk

[2:18:40] community. Do you realize

[2:18:43] how much it's going to affect the city

[2:18:44] of Escalon?"

[2:18:46] And if I would have picked up the phone

[2:18:48] and just did a cold call, they would

[2:18:49] have probably been like, "Who the heck

[2:18:50] are you?"

[2:18:52] But but the power of networking and

[2:18:54] building those relationships

[2:18:57] I mean, let's face it. Every small city

[2:18:59] and similar to the city of Escalon

[2:19:02] is dealing with the exact same issues

[2:19:04] that we are with the state of

[2:19:06] California. And I truly believe that

[2:19:09] there's strength in numbers and how we

[2:19:11] can work together to push back.

[2:19:14] >> I I see what you're saying. I'm just

[2:19:16] saying

[2:19:18] when you start swimming with the sharks,

[2:19:19] just don't be surprised if you get bit.

[2:19:22] Okay, so

[2:19:23] that's all I got to say from my my side

[2:19:25] of it. But

[2:19:26] >> Okay.

[2:19:27] >> Like I said, I I was probably in the

[2:19:29] minority on that.

[2:19:30] I figured I was.

[2:19:32] >> It's okay.

[2:19:35] » Been there many times.

[2:19:39] Okay.

[2:19:40] >> Um can I go out to the public?

[2:19:42] >> Sure.

[2:19:42] >> Uh public, anyone like to speak on this

[2:19:45] subject at all?

[2:19:48] Gary, there's Gary.

[2:19:50] >> [clears throat]

[2:19:52] >> twice in a row.

[2:19:53] Having set your seat and Councilman

[2:19:57] Engler hit

[2:19:58] >> think the basic issue is education.

[2:20:01] And when you go to that first-time

[2:20:02] council member and mayors education,

[2:20:06] they're going to let it the new guy, new

[2:20:08] gal, new person

[2:20:11] know,

[2:20:12] this is your job.

[2:20:14] One, two, whatever.

[2:20:17] This is not your job. One through

[2:20:19] whatever. And almost as important as

[2:20:22] knowing what your job is, you need to

[2:20:24] know what your job is not. And people

[2:20:26] coming, you know, like all of us did the

[2:20:28] first time walk in, we don't know how to

[2:20:30] be a councilman.

[2:20:32] You know, we're we're there for, you

[2:20:34] know, to serve the public, but there's a

[2:20:36] lot of pitfalls you can get yourself

[2:20:37] into.

[2:20:38] Especially they go through the Brown

[2:20:40] Act.

[2:20:41] I think everybody is required to take

[2:20:44] Brown Act education now, but that gives

[2:20:47] you

[2:20:48] a foot in the door. You know, I like

[2:20:51] except for first-time council people,

[2:20:53] it's I think it should be mandatory or

[2:20:56] strongly suggested.

[2:20:58] Cuz you got to know what you can and

[2:20:59] cannot do.

[2:21:02] » All right. Anyone else out there?

[2:21:05] No?

[2:21:06] All right, bring it back to Oh, sorry,

[2:21:08] online.

[2:21:10] Okay, bring it back to the dais.

[2:21:12] Any last thoughts or does anyone want to

[2:21:15] Excuse [clears throat] me, humor a

[2:21:16] motion.

[2:21:18] >> No, I just want to know if Gary thinks

[2:21:19] I'm doing a bad job cuz I didn't go to

[2:21:20] this thing.

[2:21:21] >> [laughter]

[2:21:22] >> No, but the tutorial is very nice.

[2:21:25] Like it really is. It And and Jaylen

[2:21:28] wasn't here at the time. We weren't

[2:21:30] doing briefings when we got here. So you

[2:21:32] had the benefit of when you got here,

[2:21:34] did a great briefing with staff, did a

[2:21:36] great job on that.

[2:21:38] >> 2 hours of quality time with Frank

[2:21:39] instead of a meeting in Sacramento.

[2:21:40] [laughter]

[2:21:41] >> But it was really nice to go through

[2:21:43] that.

[2:21:45] At the time, Frank's team actually led

[2:21:47] the legal

[2:21:49] seminar. Very They made it very

[2:21:51] interesting. It wasn't as boring as

[2:21:53] >> It's not [clears throat] easy to do.

[2:21:54] >> Yeah, you know, and

[2:21:57] no, it was like Gary said, it was a very

[2:21:59] good experience. The the tutorial of

[2:22:01] what what to do and what not to do kind

[2:22:04] of.

[2:22:04] Um

[2:22:06] You're not doing a bad job.

[2:22:08] >> [laughter]

[2:22:10] >> Okay.

[2:22:10] >> I just want to say I know that Council

[2:22:13] Engel said one per year.

[2:22:15] I'm more on the mayor's and council

[2:22:18] member academy plus one per year is more

[2:22:22] of where I'm leaning on that one.

[2:22:26] I don't know if we're defining how many

[2:22:28] at this point either.

[2:22:29] >> The entire council or incoming members

[2:22:31] just so I'm clear.

[2:22:33] >> Entire council.

[2:22:34] >> Every two years?

[2:22:36] >> Highly No, just allowed to so I guess

[2:22:40] recommend highly recommended for new.

[2:22:43] Highly recommended for everybody really

[2:22:45] and then uh

[2:22:46] plus allowance for one more per year.

[2:22:51] >> I could get on board with that.

[2:22:53] Do you have any more thoughts on this

[2:22:55] side?

[2:22:58] We have a motion on anything or just

[2:23:00] still

[2:23:01] >> Do we need Okay.

[2:23:02] >> Still deliberating.

[2:23:04] I'll move to approve the city council

[2:23:07] travel and training policy

[2:23:09] with the stipulation of um

[2:23:13] attendance

[2:23:15] at the mayor and council member academy

[2:23:18] um

[2:23:19] strongly encouraged

[2:23:22] as well as one other additional event.

[2:23:26] Um

[2:23:28] keeping in mind that these are taxpayer

[2:23:30] dollars and to be good financial

[2:23:33] stewards

[2:23:36] of these monies.

[2:23:38] >> I'll second it just because that last

[2:23:40] writer you put on there.

[2:23:41] >> Just a point of clarification. The one

[2:23:44] the mayor's and council member academy

[2:23:46] is once every two years.

[2:23:47] >> Right.

[2:23:48] >> And you said one other conference, is

[2:23:50] that annually or is that also once every

[2:23:52] two years?

[2:23:53] >> Annually.

[2:23:54] >> Okay, so the one other annually and the

[2:23:56] mayors and council members, got it.

[2:23:57] Okay, just to make it clear.

[2:23:59] >> Okay.

[2:24:00] Uh,

[2:24:01] all in favor say I.

[2:24:02] >> I.

[2:24:03] >> All opposed say nay.

[2:24:04] >> One nay.

[2:24:07] » We'll go to the next one.

[2:24:11] Okay.

[2:24:12] That's a number 11.

[2:24:14] >> Number 11.

[2:24:16] >> All right,

[2:24:17] last item.

[2:24:19] So, uh, this item also being brought

[2:24:22] forward, uh,

[2:24:23] from an agenda item request by council

[2:24:25] members, and I believe largely stemming

[2:24:28] from some questions, comments, uh, from

[2:24:31] the community.

[2:24:32] And so, I'll turn it over in a in a bit

[2:24:35] to chief who will go through the full

[2:24:36] presentation outline outlining some

[2:24:39] candid pros and cons,

[2:24:41] um, for the technology. And we're

[2:24:44] talking about kind of digital

[2:24:45] surveillance and, um, automatic license

[2:24:48] plate readers.

[2:24:50] So, we understand that communities are

[2:24:53] the embodiment of ideals and values of

[2:24:55] the residents.

[2:24:57] So, to this end, we take, uh, requests

[2:24:59] to review, uh, procedures, piece of

[2:25:02] technology or equipment very seriously.

[2:25:05] Uh, we further understand that certain

[2:25:07] technologies, approaches, or equipment

[2:25:09] can be viewed differently over time,

[2:25:13] um, based on new information, changes in

[2:25:15] priorities, or changes in the

[2:25:17] community's ideals and values. And

[2:25:19] again, to that end, uh, we understand

[2:25:22] that our role is to ex- execute the

[2:25:24] community's will led by the council.

[2:25:28] Um, we further know that we cannot fully

[2:25:31] guard against the future or what every

[2:25:33] person will do with the tools at their

[2:25:35] disposal. Uh, what we can do is secure

[2:25:38] tools and work with the tools we have to

[2:25:40] maintain the community that the

[2:25:43] residents appreciate, like, value

[2:25:48] love in some cases.

[2:25:50] So, similar to radar technologies that

[2:25:52] was recently just implemented in

[2:25:54] vehicles, Flock cameras were a tool

[2:25:57] acquired based on input from the

[2:25:59] community and have been used to address

[2:26:01] the issues of the community.

[2:26:04] Um they've been used to solve crimes and

[2:26:06] we think probably are used to deter even

[2:26:09] more crimes.

[2:26:11] Um but of course we welcome the

[2:26:14] conversation

[2:26:16] about this technology, about the extent

[2:26:19] of use, about the pros and the cons.

[2:26:22] And so with that I'll turn it over to

[2:26:24] Chief to go through the presentation.

[2:26:42] » So, um

[2:26:43] automated automated

[2:26:45] to be automated license plate readers.

[2:26:48] So, this is going to cover kind of what

[2:26:50] they are and what they are how they work

[2:26:53] and how they're used.

[2:27:02] » You didn't give it back, huh?

[2:27:06] » I I did click it for you though.

[2:27:11] » So, ALPR stands for automated license

[2:27:14] plate readers. The technology lies in

[2:27:16] the software, not necessarily in the

[2:27:18] cameras. The only thing that ALPRs do is

[2:27:22] it'll take a picture, it scans that

[2:27:24] picture for the presence of a vehicle

[2:27:26] and presence of a license plate. It'll

[2:27:29] document features of that it'll

[2:27:31] categorize the vehicle into a category

[2:27:34] so it can be searched and it'll

[2:27:36] translate the license plate to text so

[2:27:38] it can be uh

[2:27:40] easily searched.

[2:27:43] Uh Escalon currently has five ALPR

[2:27:46] cameras. They were installed following a

[2:27:48] critical incident that occurred in

[2:27:50] October of 2022, which was the shooting

[2:27:53] at Family Dollar. It was brought up uh council meeting that the city should

[2:27:59] explore them and look into them. It was

[2:28:01] explored and they were installed in June

[2:28:05] of 2023 and the two on

[2:28:08] Highway 120 Caltrans permitting took a

[2:28:11] lot longer. So those were installed 6

[2:28:13] months later.

[2:28:16] So what is ALPR data? So this is an

[2:28:20] actual read of what an officer would

[2:28:22] get. This is a city truck. This is the

[2:28:23] truck I drive. Uh

[2:28:25] on a hit, what you'll get is the date

[2:28:27] and the time of a read, the image of a

[2:28:29] vehicle, uh

[2:28:31] that it will be categorized so it can be

[2:28:33] searched. So if you search black truck,

[2:28:36] this would pop up.

[2:28:37] Uh and then a zoomed image of the

[2:28:39] license plate. And then And then next to

[2:28:42] the zoomed image of the license plate is

[2:28:44] the license plate translated to text. So

[2:28:48] uh and the location of the camera. The

[2:28:50] first thing that happens as soon as a a

[2:28:51] read is made, it is the license plate is

[2:28:54] checked against a hot list, which uh

[2:28:57] primarily in uh in Escalon, what we use

[2:29:00] is what we have is uh stolen vehicles

[2:29:02] and missing persons. So let's say a

[2:29:04] vehicle comes back stolen, we get an

[2:29:06] alert that it's a stolen vehicle. We'll

[2:29:08] take a look at the hit. The first thing

[2:29:09] we do is look at the license plate and

[2:29:11] then look at the license plate number

[2:29:13] that it read. Uh

[2:29:16] say one out of 10 times,

[2:29:18] it's a false read where it read the

[2:29:20] license plate plate wrong, you just

[2:29:22] ignore it.

[2:29:26] How ALPR data is used. Uh initially, it

[2:29:29] was used to find stolen vehicles.

[2:29:31] They're positioned to capture vehicles

[2:29:34] coming into town.

[2:29:35] Um so we get a hit of a stolen vehicle

[2:29:38] and then we can go to that area, see if

[2:29:40] we can find the stolen vehicle. Uh now

[2:29:43] we use we use them a lot more to uh as

[2:29:47] investigative tools for cases.

[2:29:52] Uh an investigative tool for cases where

[2:29:54] we search through the uh where we can

[2:29:57] search for suspect vehicles.

[2:30:00] Uh

[2:30:01] let's say a

[2:30:02] burglary is committed over in a

[2:30:04] residential neighborhood. There's not

[2:30:06] really any leads. We got video

[2:30:08] surveillance We got rings of video

[2:30:09] surveillance of a person and a vehicle.

[2:30:13] We got no license plate number. It we

[2:30:15] can't identify who the person is. We can

[2:30:18] take that vehicle description and then

[2:30:20] we can run it through Flock to see if we

[2:30:22] can find it coming into town. Uh if

[2:30:25] we're able to possibly identify it,

[2:30:27] that'll give us a license plate number,

[2:30:29] which would give us the registered

[2:30:30] owner. And that does not mean that the

[2:30:33] registered owner is the suspect. It

[2:30:35] doesn't even always mean that the

[2:30:37] registered owner that that vehicle was

[2:30:39] involved in the crime. We still have a

[2:30:40] lot of investigation to do to tie the

[2:30:42] person to the crime. We don't arrest

[2:30:45] registered owners of vehicles because

[2:30:47] their vehicle was identified and

[2:30:48] involved in the crime. Uh

[2:30:51] we use investigative tools.

[2:30:53] We investigate further to determine

[2:30:54] whether or not an actual person was

[2:30:59] identify the person who committed the

[2:31:00] crime.

[2:31:01] And it can also be used as an

[2:31:04] exculpatory evidence.

[2:31:06] There was a great case shortly after we

[2:31:08] first got them.

[2:31:10] There was a guy walking by uh

[2:31:13] walking by the high school.

[2:31:15] There's a gun sitting on the bed of a

[2:31:18] vehicle.

[2:31:19] Just a handgun.

[2:31:21] Plain view. It's in the afternoon.

[2:31:24] Uh

[2:31:25] we get there.

[2:31:26] For sure it's a real gun. Seems like

[2:31:28] it's been sitting there for a while. And

[2:31:30] we go and contact the school. We

[2:31:32] identify who the truck belonged to. We

[2:31:34] identify who the kid was. The gun is

[2:31:36] registered to his father.

[2:31:39] And

[2:31:40] by all indications, it seemed like the

[2:31:42] kid brought the gun to school. He was

[2:31:44] probably showing it off at lunchtime,

[2:31:47] left it on the trunk of left it on the bed of the vehicle.

[2:31:52] He was adamant that, "No, I don't know

[2:31:54] how it got there. I was shooting over

[2:31:55] the weekend on my property, and I don't

[2:31:58] know how it got there. I must have left

[2:31:59] it there." His claim was that he drove

[2:32:02] into town, and it must have been on

[2:32:03] there as he drove into town.

[2:32:05] We're able to run it through the Flock.

[2:32:07] Sure enough, there's the

[2:32:08] image of his vehicle driving into town.

[2:32:11] You can clearly see the gun on the

[2:32:13] tonneau cover.

[2:32:15] If not for the Flock cameras, he

[2:32:17] probably would have been expelled, been

[2:32:19] arrested. This kid's life could have

[2:32:21] been ruined. It was It was completely

[2:32:23] exonerated by the Flock cameras. So,

[2:32:25] they're not just used to incriminate

[2:32:27] people. They can also be used to

[2:32:28] exonerate people and provide exculpatory

[2:32:30] evidence.

[2:32:32] Uh mistakes and misuse.

[2:32:35] Not going to lie, they do happen. So,

[2:32:39] from what I've uh this data, the oldest one that I found on this uh

[2:32:45] that indicated is 2018. Most of them are

[2:32:48] from '23, '24, and '25. So, in the past

[2:32:53] 3 to 4 years,

[2:32:55] give or take a couple more, uh

[2:32:58] there've been uh 148 documented

[2:33:00] incidents of mistakes or

[2:33:03] just misuse. There are approximately

[2:33:05] 18,000 law enforcement agencies that

[2:33:08] employ over 750,000 law enforcement

[2:33:10] officers.

[2:33:11] Over 5,000 agencies use ALPRs with an

[2:33:14] estimated 120,000 deployed uh from 2008

[2:33:18] uh in the to deployed. From 2008 to uh

[2:33:21] present, 148 documented incidents of

[2:33:24] mistakes or misuse. Most of the errors

[2:33:27] occur with uh

[2:33:29] officers putting vehicles, wanted

[2:33:31] vehicles onto a hot list, and not

[2:33:34] updating it. Uh I've since updated our

[2:33:36] policy to make it to where they can uh

[2:33:38] they have to expire after 4 days, and

[2:33:40] they can renew them, but they have to

[2:33:42] stay on top of it to make sure that

[2:33:44] they're you don't have old lists in hot

[2:33:47] lists.

[2:33:48] The other ones are a lot of

[2:33:50] maliciousness. Mostly officers

[2:33:54] looking up exes, girlfriends, husbands,

[2:33:57] boyfriends, and

[2:34:00] people that they're trying to date. Most

[2:34:02] of the

[2:34:04] all of the misuse and stalking,

[2:34:07] uh the officers have either resigned or

[2:34:09] been fired, and in many of the cases,

[2:34:12] they've been prosecuted. So, it is

[2:34:15] something that

[2:34:17] happens, and when it happens, officers

[2:34:19] are held accountable, and many times

[2:34:22] they're actually prosecuted in court for

[2:34:25] violations. So, there safeguards are

[2:34:27] already in place to prevent that, and

[2:34:29] they are used.

[2:34:32] So, all officers have an individual

[2:34:34] account that tracks searches. For all

[2:34:36] searches, officers must include the

[2:34:38] following information. They have to

[2:34:39] include the offense type, which the

[2:34:41] crime being investigated, a case number

[2:34:44] or an incident number, and then the

[2:34:46] reason for the search. They're looking

[2:34:47] for a suspect vehicle, looking for a

[2:34:49] wit- a victim vehicle, witnesses,

[2:34:52] missing persons.

[2:34:54] They have to indicate why, and

[2:34:56] all it's tracked on it's all tracked,

[2:34:59] and it can be audited. So, if there's

[2:35:00] any question, we can say, "Okay, this

[2:35:02] officer looked up this license plate

[2:35:04] number, or did a search." cuz it's not

[2:35:06] always a license plate number. "This

[2:35:07] officer did a search for this case

[2:35:10] number." We can easily go back and look

[2:35:11] up that incident, or look up that case,

[2:35:14] and make sure that uh

[2:35:16] that was a legit search. And I've

[2:35:18] recently implemented that they also must

[2:35:21] now uh There are times where you get a

[2:35:24] license plate, you run a license plate,

[2:35:26] but it's not the license plate you're

[2:35:27] looking for.

[2:35:28] >> [clears throat]

[2:35:29] >> That now has to be documented in their

[2:35:32] report why they ran every single license

[2:35:34] plate that they run. If they run a li-

[2:35:36] uh

[2:35:37] search for a specific license plate, not

[2:35:38] just uh

[2:35:40] for like make, model, color.

[2:35:43] And as noted before, to prevent outdated

[2:35:46] hot lists, uh

[2:35:48] they can no longer keep have a hot list

[2:35:51] entry valid for more than 4 days.

[2:35:54] For the features of Flock, the data is

[2:35:56] 100% owned by uh by us, by the Escalon

[2:35:59] Police Department or City of Escalon. We

[2:36:01] choose who we share it with, who has

[2:36:03] access to that. Uh as of right now, we

[2:36:06] share with multiple other law

[2:36:07] enforcement agencies, and that's it.

[2:36:11] Private customers never have access to

[2:36:14] uh Flock uh governmental Flock data. So,

[2:36:18] even if a private entity wanted to

[2:36:20] access or wanted to share with us, it

[2:36:23] wouldn't even be able to send a share

[2:36:24] request.

[2:36:26] Flock automatically deletes and

[2:36:27] overwrites data after 30 days. So, after

[2:36:30] 30 days, they delete it, and it's not

[2:36:32] only deleted, it's immediately written

[2:36:34] over, so that data cannot be recovered.

[2:36:37] And there are search filters as we went

[2:36:40] over before that require the reason it

[2:36:41] for the access with the permanent audit

[2:36:44] log that we can go back and track.

[2:36:47] So, fact versus myth.

[2:36:49] LPRs can track people and show police

[2:36:52] everywhere they go.

[2:36:55] Myth, the fact is LPRs take a

[2:36:57] point-in-time image of a vehicle

[2:36:59] traveling on a public roadway, which are

[2:37:01] deleted after 30 days. And you've

[2:37:03] already seen exactly what a hit would

[2:37:05] look like. Then myth, LPRs violate the

[2:37:08] Fourth Amendment. Appellate and district

[2:37:10] courts in at least 14 states, including

[2:37:13] the 9th Circuit, which is the most

[2:37:15] liberal, and the 11th Circuit, which is

[2:37:18] the most conservative, have upheld using

[2:37:20] evidence from LPRs as constitutional

[2:37:22] without requiring a warrant.

[2:37:26] Myth, Flock sells customer data,

[2:37:28] compiling all of it into a national

[2:37:30] database.

[2:37:31] Uh the fact is, we own 100% of our data,

[2:37:35] and Flock does not sell it. And then we

[2:37:37] decide what agencies we want to share it

[2:37:40] with, and there are laws that also

[2:37:42] govern that. In the state of California,

[2:37:44] we are prohibited from sharing our data

[2:37:47] with federal agencies, other states, and

[2:37:51] unlawful to be used for any type of

[2:37:53] reproductive right stuff.

[2:37:55] >> [snorts]

[2:37:55] >> Uh myth, Flock LPRs use facial

[2:37:58] recognition. Uh they do not use facial

[2:38:00] recognition, and the system cannot be

[2:38:02] used to search for human

[2:38:03] characteristics.

[2:38:07] And then the myth is LPRs don't have an

[2:38:09] impact on crime. So, San Diego Mayor

[2:38:12] Todd Gloria attributed a 20% decline in

[2:38:15] auto theft to Flock. San Francisco Mayor

[2:38:17] Daniel Lorey credited Flock LPRs for the

[2:38:20] 41% decrease in auto theft while

[2:38:23] increasing arrests for auto theft cases

[2:38:25] by 46%.

[2:38:26] Flock has been used to solve 30% of

[2:38:28] homicides in Oakland and San Diego. So,

[2:38:31] after reading this, I decided I'mma do a

[2:38:34] quick search of our stats. So, the chart

[2:38:37] is Echelon stats. So, a 10851 is the uh

[2:38:42] offense code for a stolen vehicle.

[2:38:44] In 2020, we had 21 cases with 10851 uh

[2:38:48] listed as an offense.

[2:38:50] And 21, we had 16, then 10, then 14, 11,

[2:38:54] 5, and 3, and so on. And then in the

[2:38:56] same year, it I compared the arrests for

[2:38:59] 10851 or 496D, which 496D is a penal

[2:39:03] code for possession of stolen vehicle.

[2:39:05] If you can't prove a person stole a

[2:39:06] vehicle, you would charge them with a

[2:39:08] 496D.

[2:39:09] So,

[2:39:10] in 2020, we had four arrests, then six

[2:39:13] arrests, then five arrests, and then uh

[2:39:16] the amount of cases with arrests because

[2:39:18] some Some cases you have multiple uh

[2:39:20] multiple arrests per case.

[2:39:23] So, if you look, uh 10-851 reports are

[2:39:27] kind of up there, kind of declining, but

[2:39:29] then kind of drops, then goes up, then

[2:39:32] goes down. In 2024, we had 11 uh 10-851

[2:39:36] reports

[2:39:38] or 11 stolen vehicle reports,

[2:39:40] uh 15 people arrested for theft vehicle

[2:39:44] theft, and then out of 13 cases, and

[2:39:47] that was the first year or full year we

[2:39:49] had uh Flock cameras.

[2:39:51] were installed in 2003,

[2:39:53] the following year we got in a spike in

[2:39:56] arrests, and then the following year our

[2:39:59] 10-851 or our vehicle theft reports have

[2:40:01] dropped precipitously along with our

[2:40:03] arrests. So, there was a huge spike, and

[2:40:06] the word got around, and [snorts] we're

[2:40:08] not getting hit with uh vehicle theft

[2:40:10] like

[2:40:10] we used to be. So, there is

[2:40:13] quantifiable data that after Flock

[2:40:15] cameras are installed, you do have an

[2:40:17] increase in vehicle theft arrests, and

[2:40:20] we have also seen that a drop in vehicle

[2:40:23] theft.

[2:40:25] Then data protection. So, Flock uses

[2:40:28] state-of-the-art framework with

[2:40:29] end-to-end encryption and uses the same

[2:40:31] level of protection of DoD servers.

[2:40:34] Uh They paid a top penetrating

[2:40:36] penetration testing firm to attempt to

[2:40:38] hack their system, which it failed.

[2:40:41] Employers It also employs a hacker

[2:40:43] bounty program where people are

[2:40:45] encouraged to try to find potential

[2:40:47] exploits with their system. They bring

[2:40:49] those exploits to Flock's attention, and

[2:40:51] they'll actually pay them uh for that

[2:40:53] information rather so they can fix it

[2:40:55] rather than have the information have

[2:40:57] somebody get in and leak

[2:41:03] Questions?

[2:41:05] >> [clears throat]

[2:41:06] >> Well, Chief, this is kind of where I'm

[2:41:08] coming from and I think I've already

[2:41:10] told you before

[2:41:12] Um, and I want to Sorry.

[2:41:14] >> You running? Okay.

[2:41:15] >> Uh

[2:41:17] >> [clears throat]

[2:41:17] [snorts]

[2:41:18] >> I do think that there's some validities

[2:41:19] to some to some of these technologies,

[2:41:21] but I do think there needs to be

[2:41:22] guardrails on them.

[2:41:24] Uh

[2:41:25] That being said

[2:41:27] you [clears throat] know, there needs to

[2:41:28] be a citizen In my opinion, there needs

[2:41:29] to be a citizen oversight committee on

[2:41:31] this

[2:41:32] that has an auditing process to make

[2:41:34] sure that's really what's going on. Do I

[2:41:36] trust our police? Absolutely. I think

[2:41:38] you guys do a great job. But at some

[2:41:40] point you're not going to be there if

[2:41:41] you retire or whatever. Heaven forbid

[2:41:44] it's an accident or something, right?

[2:41:46] So, we don't [clears throat]

[2:41:48] I don't want to see these things

[2:41:50] encroaching into our community any more

[2:41:52] than they already are on the outside of

[2:41:54] town. Okay, but I I don't think we need

[2:41:57] to be having 1984 with cameras on every

[2:42:00] corner. You know what I'm saying? So

[2:42:03] you know, there's there's what we call a

[2:42:05] price for freedom and freedom's not

[2:42:07] free. So, you do have to take some

[2:42:09] degree of risk to be a free individual,

[2:42:12] right? So

[2:42:14] my [snorts] my feeling is that um

[2:42:17] because [clears throat] the uh Chat Tree

[2:42:19] um

[2:42:21] uh Supreme Court decision on geofencing

[2:42:24] uh

[2:42:25] showing that it's a fourth vi- fourth

[2:42:27] amendment violation

[2:42:29] uh my concern is that this is going to

[2:42:31] go to the Supreme Court and be held to

[2:42:34] the same same situation because the

[2:42:37] nature of the the way that they won that

[2:42:40] lawsuit.

[2:42:42] That being said, in the meantime

[2:42:44] I reason I brought it here was because I

[2:42:48] want to make [clears throat] sure

[2:42:50] that there's oversight that as a

[2:42:52] community we're not allowing it to

[2:42:53] encroach any further.

[2:42:55] Uh that [clears throat]

[2:42:57] the software updates

[2:42:59] uh as much as I know you're saying that

[2:43:01] they're just license plate readers,

[2:43:03] which I get.

[2:43:05] Um [clears throat] I'm sure you're aware

[2:43:06] that there are softwares

[2:43:08] uh that do use facial recognition, auto

[2:43:12] audio, all that stuff can be uplinked.

[2:43:15] Yeah, they already do it in China. It's

[2:43:17] a technology is available. So, we need

[2:43:20] to make sure

[2:43:22] >> [clears throat]

[2:43:22] >> that

[2:43:23] if you're just using it for that,

[2:43:26] I personally have no problem with it.

[2:43:28] But, if you're using it uh

[2:43:31] in a way that Big Brother's coming in on

[2:43:33] you, or the state, or the nation

[2:43:35] national level, they're able to

[2:43:38] go through your information and and and

[2:43:41] then have pre-crime,

[2:43:43] that that's a concern for me as far as

[2:43:46] the Fourth Amendment process is

[2:43:47] concerned. So,

[2:43:50] my personal feeling is we need to have

[2:43:54] a oversight committee. We need to have

[2:43:58] uh hopefully language that would say

[2:44:00] we're not going to encroach into the

[2:44:02] city any further, and that software

[2:44:05] updates would be limited to license

[2:44:07] plate readers with no other technology

[2:44:11] upgraded into it.

[2:44:13] That's kind of where I'm coming from.

[2:44:15] Um I don't know how everyone else feels.

[2:44:18] >> Um since I I guess co-sponsored bringing

[2:44:21] this up here,

[2:44:22] um

[2:44:23] first you said something in your

[2:44:25] presentation I want to ask specifically,

[2:44:26] what agencies are we sharing this

[2:44:28] information with?

[2:44:29] >> Uh

[2:44:29] I'd have to look up, but there are

[2:44:31] several agencies.

[2:44:32] >> I I mean, is is it beyond

[2:44:34] county, local law enforcement, PDs?

[2:44:37] >> It is state.

[2:44:37] >> Are we sharing it with the federal government, I guess it is?

[2:44:40] >> No. So, there are laws that prohibit uh

[2:44:43] California entities from sharing ALPR

[2:44:45] data with um

[2:44:47] with federal agencies, or with uh

[2:44:50] non-California agencies. So, we couldn't

[2:44:52] even share with Nevada. We could only

[2:44:54] share interstate, and we see everybody

[2:44:57] that we share with, and we see everybody

[2:45:00] who uh

[2:45:01] can share with us, and we can

[2:45:05] remove people at will, and they can

[2:45:07] remove us.

[2:45:07] >> Found a California law that I actually

[2:45:09] appreciate. Uh that's great. Um so,

[2:45:12] here's my my take on these things, and

[2:45:14] uh obviously, you know, when they went

[2:45:15] up around town, you know, at first, you

[2:45:16] know, really they kind of went up with,

[2:45:18] you know, not many people noticing, and

[2:45:20] they recently have been noticed, and

[2:45:21] we've been getting a lot of uh

[2:45:23] conversations from the community about

[2:45:24] it. Um my experience goes a little

[2:45:26] further than that because of what I do

[2:45:28] for a living, um I can actually do a

[2:45:31] ALPR search on a vehicle based on its

[2:45:33] license plate number, uh VIN number,

[2:45:35] etc. And I have seen photos of vehicles

[2:45:38] sitting in their driveway, uh and not

[2:45:40] one, but seven or eight photos where the

[2:45:43] car has been shot in its own driveway

[2:45:45] multiple times by a police car driving

[2:45:47] by. Uh

[2:45:48] I know that we don't have those on our

[2:45:50] vehicles, uh

[2:45:52] and part of the reason, you know, why I

[2:45:54] am, you know, on board with bringing

[2:45:55] this agenda item uh forward for us to

[2:45:56] have this discussion, is that I want to

[2:45:58] be sure that we don't ever get there.

[2:45:59] That's not something that I think should

[2:46:00] be happening, and that I I 100% believe

[2:46:02] should be a Fourth Amendment violation.

[2:46:04] You are looking in someone's property at

[2:46:06] their vehicle. Uh I absolutely do not

[2:46:08] support that for any law enforcement

[2:46:10] agency to be doing.

[2:46:11] They're doing it looking for stolen

[2:46:13] vehicles.

[2:46:14] Uh

[2:46:14] >> Go ahead.

[2:46:15] >> If I can clarify, so I think you're you

[2:46:17] probably use Vigilant.

[2:46:19] >> Uh I don't know what company it is that

[2:46:21] we I requested through uh my

[2:46:23] >> Originally, ALPR was um

[2:46:25] Vigilant was the big pioneer in ALPR

[2:46:28] technology, and their primary thing

[2:46:30] wasn't law enforcement, it was asset

[2:46:31] recovery. And so, they would pay private

[2:46:34] people, and I think they still do, to

[2:46:36] put LPRs on their vehicles, just drive

[2:46:39] around neighborhoods, drive around

[2:46:40] parking lots, collect data. So, a lot of

[2:46:43] that data you're seeing is not collected

[2:46:45] by police officers, it's collected by

[2:46:47] private citizens that put the data that

[2:46:50] put LPRs on their cameras, and it's

[2:46:52] collected specifically for commercial

[2:46:54] purposes.

[2:46:54] >> Well, and I I

[2:46:56] definitely I know about that. I also

[2:46:59] 100% can confirm these are law

[2:47:01] enforcement vehicles. You can tell by

[2:47:02] the you know what you're seeing from the photo as it's taking it.

[2:47:05] Uh that it's definitely a police car.

[2:47:07] Flashing lights and all in some cases.

[2:47:09] Um you know, that that being said, you

[2:47:11] know, what what we use it for as an

[2:47:12] insurer is uh to verify damages. You

[2:47:15] know, we see you know the damage that

[2:47:16] doesn't quite look like it you know

[2:47:17] belongs to the claim that's been filed.

[2:47:19] Um we do these scans and and we look to

[2:47:22] see anytime that this vehicle's been hit

[2:47:23] previously on uh in ALPR, uh if that

[2:47:27] damage was existing prior to the loss

[2:47:29] date is essentially what we you know you

[2:47:30] utilize it for. That's a private company

[2:47:32] that is utilizing this information. So,

[2:47:34] my my you know, view of this, and like I

[2:47:37] said, can confirm 100% these are law

[2:47:39] enforcement vehicles. Um I have ridden

[2:47:41] in a Modesto police car uh on a

[2:47:42] ride-along, and you know, done uh these

[2:47:45] searches uh as we were driving around

[2:47:47] looking for stolen cars for a a shift.

[2:47:49] Um so, I think that you know, that

[2:47:51] specifically, you know, when we're

[2:47:53] talking about you know, people's

[2:47:54] property that we were we're now photoing

[2:47:55] you know, vehicles sitting inside their

[2:47:57] driveways, uh you know, that's a stretch

[2:47:59] way too far. You know, that I I do think

[2:48:01] that at some point that's going to end

[2:48:02] up uh going to the Supreme Court, and

[2:48:04] they're going to go, "No, that

[2:48:05] definitely is a fourth amendment

[2:48:06] violation." That said, these five

[2:48:08] cameras around town

[2:48:10] for the longest time, um I have

[2:48:12] children. They're all older at this

[2:48:14] point. My youngest is 15, and my oldest

[2:48:16] is 20. When I started having kids, one

[2:48:18] of my very first thoughts in this town

[2:48:20] with five exits into five different

[2:48:21] jurisdictions is how easy it would be

[2:48:23] for someone to kidnap my child and leave

[2:48:25] this town, and we have two officers that

[2:48:27] we may be able to possibly catch them

[2:48:30] with.

[2:48:31] Um so, the idea of having you know, the

[2:48:33] five cameras on you know, the five

[2:48:35] corners of town makes perfect sense to

[2:48:37] me. You know, in the instance we had

[2:48:39] something like the Family Dollar

[2:48:41] shooting, uh a child being abducted, um

[2:48:44] you know, there's a litany of reasons

[2:48:46] that they can come in very, very handy

[2:48:48] for us with those five cameras. Much

[2:48:51] like the mayor, I also recognize that

[2:48:53] China has, you know, gone so far as that

[2:48:55] if you drop a piece of trash on the

[2:48:56] ground, you can't use your ATM card for

[2:48:58] the day. That sort of thing and it's all

[2:49:00] done through, you know, facial

[2:49:01] recognition. We want to be sure that stuff doesn't, you know, come into

[2:49:05] our and penetrate our community without

[2:49:08] our knowledge, without us ever knowing

[2:49:09] that it's happening. You know, when that stuff, you know, does come forward,

[2:49:13] you know, if we do want to you know,

[2:49:14] move the needle and go for, you know, a

[2:49:16] little higher level of surveillance than

[2:49:18] what we currently have, I just want to

[2:49:19] be sure it either comes between, you

[2:49:20] know, five elected officials that

[2:49:21] they're members of this community or is

[2:49:23] put out to, you know, the rest of the

[2:49:25] community where they have, you know, the

[2:49:26] chance to come in here, stand at that

[2:49:28] podium and say, "Hey, I absolutely do

[2:49:29] not want a camera on Main Street where

[2:49:31] every time I cross it with my dog, you

[2:49:33] guys are watching me."

[2:49:34] You know, so that's, you know, kind of

[2:49:36] my take on this. You know, it's not that

[2:49:37] I have an issue with, you know, the

[2:49:38] system as a whole. Good to hear that we

[2:49:41] are the owners of of that data.

[2:49:43] I appreciate that clarification.

[2:49:46] We also pushed this item forward and

[2:49:48] said, "Hey, you know, we want to get

[2:49:49] this on the agenda sooner rather than

[2:49:50] later because of all the discussion

[2:49:52] going on in the community and we wanted

[2:49:54] to, you know, be accountable to the

[2:49:55] community for what it is that we had,

[2:49:56] you know, going on already and have you

[2:49:58] sit here and give this explanation to

[2:50:00] everybody, you know, and I every time

[2:50:01] someone asked me, you know, this

[2:50:02] question, I'm going to say, "Hey, go

[2:50:03] look, you know,

[2:50:04] 9:40 at, you [laughter] know, at

[2:50:07] Monday's meeting and and uh uh you know,

[2:50:09] go take a look what what Chief has to

[2:50:11] say. You know, he's obviously not lying

[2:50:13] and he's telling us exactly what it is

[2:50:15] that we're using them for.

[2:50:17] And and I think that, like I said, the

[2:50:19] five that we have, I think that they

[2:50:20] serve a very good purpose and I will

[2:50:22] tell you I've had,

[2:50:23] out of all the conversations that I've

[2:50:24] had, I've had three specifically that

[2:50:26] came at me as, "Why are you allowing

[2:50:28] this? You are not this kind of guy." And

[2:50:30] by the time the conversation was over,

[2:50:32] they went, "Okay, it actually makes a

[2:50:33] lot of sense for our town." You know, as

[2:50:35] long as it's, you know, parameters, parameters. So, more or

[2:50:39] less, the reason that, you know, I I got

[2:50:41] on board with bringing this forward is

[2:50:42] just so that we can put guardrails in to

[2:50:44] be sure that should the five of us not

[2:50:46] be here any longer, you not be here any

[2:50:48] longer, none of the staff still existing

[2:50:50] here, uh but we're still living in this

[2:50:51] community, that we still get a chance to

[2:50:53] walk up that podium ourselves and say,

[2:50:55] "Hey, no, we don't want that." You know,

[2:50:57] for whatever the reason is, or no, this

[2:50:59] is a good thing like the vibe that we

[2:51:00] currently have. So, that's uh that's my

[2:51:03] spiel on it. Uh oh,

[2:51:05] >> Cuz I I just had one more thing I wanted

[2:51:06] to add and then I'll ask everyone,

[2:51:07] sorry. Uh because there are instances

[2:51:11] where people have been jailed for for

[2:51:14] over LPRs that are aired.

[2:51:17] And then, you know, 2/3 of these traffic

[2:51:19] stops, nationally speaking,

[2:51:22] uh they're going in as a high-risk,

[2:51:25] you know, engagement.

[2:51:26] >> [clears throat and cough]

[2:51:27] >> Like, that puts our officers uh in a

[2:51:30] potential pickle if they accidentally

[2:51:32] shoot someone. You know, there's

[2:51:33] liabilities there, so like, if there if

[2:51:36] you [clears throat] don't already have

[2:51:37] those in place,

[2:51:39] like, what is our protocol when we come

[2:51:42] up to a car that has the situation? Some

[2:51:45] people would be, no big deal, some come

[2:51:47] out guns blazing, and we don't need an

[2:51:50] accident and then a lawsuit because of

[2:51:52] that. Right? So, like, we need to have,

[2:51:54] in my opinion, guardrails on this stuff

[2:51:57] so that the Fourth Amendment doesn't get

[2:51:59] violated. Uh and it may have already

[2:52:02] been violated based on the geofencing

[2:52:05] stuff, so we'll see, it'll be

[2:52:06] interesting to see what the sub the um

[2:52:08] Supreme Court ends up saying about this

[2:52:10] whole thing. But until that time, I

[2:52:13] think there needs to be guardrails. I

[2:52:15] just think that we can't be encroaching

[2:52:17] in the community. Uh you use

[2:52:19] [clears throat] it for what it's used

[2:52:20] for, which you obviously are. Uh the

[2:52:23] citizens uh have a

[2:52:26] an oversight committee so that we can

[2:52:28] guarantee them that they're being able

[2:52:30] to see the air rate and that the

[2:52:32] potential uses that is being audited. I

[2:52:35] know you're a pretty

[2:52:36] >> [clears throat]

[2:52:36] >> detailed guy, so you're probably

[2:52:37] auditing yourself, but it would I think

[2:52:40] it would sit better with the community

[2:52:42] if they have their own

[2:52:44] eyeballs on it as a community.

[2:52:47] Um

[2:52:48] so I I'm personally thinking that's

[2:52:51] where we need to go, but I don't know

[2:52:53] what their thoughts are with everyone

[2:52:55] else at the dais.

[2:52:56] >> If you don't mind, I want to make one

[2:52:57] more statement

[2:52:58] just about these things [clears throat]

[2:52:59] a bit before we we move on. You just

[2:53:01] jogged my memory about something. There

[2:53:03] was a a man, I believe, in Tennessee. He

[2:53:05] was pulled 12 times in 30 days, over and

[2:53:08] over again. He kept getting getting hit

[2:53:10] by the same Flock camera. His license

[2:53:12] plate had been entered incorrectly in

[2:53:15] place of a vehicle that had been stolen,

[2:53:17] and over and over again this guy was

[2:53:19] being pulled pulled over because he was

[2:53:21] still flagged on that system, and they

[2:53:22] weren't getting him removed off of it.

[2:53:24] So, he, you know, starts going through,

[2:53:25] you know, the motions of every time he

[2:53:26] gets pulled over, "Here's my license, my

[2:53:27] registration." Hands out the window.

[2:53:29] "This is not a stolen vehicle. I was

[2:53:30] just pulled over yesterday afternoon at

[2:53:32] 2:00 p.m.

[2:53:33] You know, check your guys's logs.

[2:53:35] You know, that that circumstance, you

[2:53:36] know, and

[2:53:38] So, again, when we talk about our

[2:53:40] officers, it's a little different than a

[2:53:42] lot of other officers. So, I don't mean

[2:53:45] any offense by this, but every

[2:53:48] interaction with a man with a gun is an

[2:53:51] opportunity for something to go wrong.

[2:53:53] You know, guy has a bad day. Now, this

[2:53:55] guy's been pulled over 12 times. When

[2:53:56] he's on his 13th time, is that the time

[2:53:57] that he goes, "You know what? You guys

[2:53:58] can, you know, and everything goes

[2:54:00] wrong." And he ends up getting shot for

[2:54:01] something that was law enforcement's

[2:54:02] mistake, you know.

[2:54:03] >> So, I

[2:54:07] » [snorts]

[2:54:07] >> As you saw, we you have when you get the

[2:54:10] hit, you get the license plate number,

[2:54:12] and you get what the what the actual license plate

[2:54:16] what it what it read.

[2:54:17] >> It didn't text, correct?

[2:54:18] >> You should First thing you should do is

[2:54:20] verify those. There are instances where

[2:54:23] it's wrong. We did have or the U-Haul

[2:54:25] vehicle, it flagged it hit as a stolen

[2:54:27] vehicle. We roll out there. We do a

[2:54:29] high-risk stop on it. We pull everybody

[2:54:32] out at gunpoint. Yeah, freaked everybody

[2:54:34] out. It's a high-risk It is a high-risk

[2:54:36] stop. It turned out that

[2:54:39] the U-Haul was reported stolen.

[2:54:43] Uh

[2:54:44] the It got recovered and brought back to

[2:54:47] a shop in Riverbank and was supposed to

[2:54:50] be flagged to not be rented out. For

[2:54:52] whatever reason, it wasn't flagged. They

[2:54:54] rented it out before it was removed

[2:54:58] >> [snorts]

[2:54:58] >> from Fruit removed it stolen. They had a

[2:55:01] truckload of stuff they were trying to

[2:55:03] get to I can't remember where, but they

[2:55:04] had a truckload of

[2:55:06] equipment. They still had a couple more

[2:55:08] runs to do. I don't know how it works in

[2:55:10] Tennessee. We were able to do a recovery

[2:55:12] and remove that vehicle from the stolen

[2:55:14] vehicle system right at that point in

[2:55:16] time. Or not right at that point in

[2:55:18] time, but as soon as we cleared, we cut

[2:55:19] them loose. We let them go. We're able

[2:55:21] to remove the vehicle remove vehicle

[2:55:24] from stolen stolen vehicle system. So,

[2:55:27] yes, that that can happen.

[2:55:30] >> Well, I guess it could happen, but it

[2:55:32] it's all in the way that you approach

[2:55:33] the situation, right? So, like if you're

[2:55:36] going in there high high-risk thinking

[2:55:39] this guy's got a weapon and he pulls out

[2:55:42] a broom or something and you freaking

[2:55:44] knock him down.

[2:55:46] Right? That's a problem.

[2:55:48] >> We do

[2:55:48] >> That's a lawsuit for us.

[2:55:49] >> Yes, but we do a We do high-risk stops

[2:55:51] for uh various reasons and we have had

[2:55:55] instances where officers have

[2:55:57] been right behind the vehicle. The

[2:55:58] officer runs the plate wrong. It comes

[2:56:00] back as stolen and they do a high-risk

[2:56:02] stop on them.

[2:56:03] >> Yeah.

[2:56:03] >> Mistakes happen and Flock is not immune

[2:56:06] to mistakes, but as you can see from the

[2:56:08] accountability the what the website for

[2:56:11] accountability

[2:56:12] officers are being held accountable for

[2:56:14] their actions.

[2:56:15] >> I I get it, but I think that we need to

[2:56:17] have an internal policy, I guess, is

[2:56:18] what I'm getting at. That

[2:56:21] when we do have something like this,

[2:56:23] we're not just instantly going from zero

[2:56:24] to 60,

[2:56:26] right? We got to have some sort of like

[2:56:28] okay, we pull them over, let's

[2:56:30] double-check the stuff before we're

[2:56:32] lighting them up, you know what I'm

[2:56:33] saying?

[2:56:34] I guess is what I'm getting at.

[2:56:36] >> And also, that is the reason if you look

[2:56:38] at the LPR data that I put in the

[2:56:41] council report every month, we have

[2:56:44] a whole lot of stolen vehicle or stolen

[2:56:46] license plate hits and very few stolen

[2:56:48] vehicle hits.

[2:56:50] Stolen license plate hits, we don't even

[2:56:52] respond to anymore because

[2:56:54] I've when we first got them, I used to

[2:56:56] go and stop people for them, and I have

[2:56:59] not got one that was not your front

[2:57:01] license plate was stolen, back license

[2:57:04] plate is still on the vehicle. So, I

[2:57:05] have not gotten a stolen license plate

[2:57:07] stop that

[2:57:09] was

[2:57:10] >> legitimately warranted.

[2:57:11] >> Exactly. And so, I don't even stop for I

[2:57:14] don't even set my I don't even get

[2:57:16] alerts for stolen license plates, and I

[2:57:18] don't think any of

[2:57:19] our other officers

[2:57:20] >> Okay, well, I guess that's like a

[2:57:22] the kind of thing I'm talking about as

[2:57:24] far as

[2:57:25] um

[2:57:26] universally through your crew having a

[2:57:31] um a process by which we're thinking

[2:57:33] through these things and eliminating the

[2:57:36] potential for collateral damage and

[2:57:38] liability because clearly

[2:57:41] just what you're describing to me is

[2:57:43] we're seeing the potential for something to be misinterpreted or

[2:57:48] you know, that kind of thing. So, as far

[2:57:51] as like the outside cameras, like I was

[2:57:53] telling

[2:57:54] um K, it comes with K's. I don't have

[2:57:56] necessarily a problem provided it's not

[2:57:59] encroaching,

[2:58:00] provided it's not

[2:58:02] software updates aren't coming into

[2:58:04] these things allowing for next level,

[2:58:07] you know, social credit score type stuff

[2:58:09] because this is the this is the type of

[2:58:11] stuff

[2:58:13] that creeps, and it creeps, and it

[2:58:15] creeps, and eventually we're going, "Oh,

[2:58:18] are we living in 1984?

[2:58:20] The book, you know, because we started

[2:58:22] with this kind of stuff and we didn't

[2:58:24] put guardrails on it.

[2:58:26] So, I think that there needs to be at

[2:58:27] very least guardrails.

[2:58:30] Any Anyone else? Sorry, we've been

[2:58:32] talking a lot.

[2:58:33] >> May I ask you a few questions?

[2:58:35] All right. Um

[2:58:36] so, these might seem very basic and

[2:58:39] » [clears throat]

[2:58:39] >> I I just don't want to assume, right?

[2:58:41] So, we'll just ask them out loud. Um but

[2:58:43] are these cameras Are they um permanent

[2:58:46] and fixed or are they mobile and on a

[2:58:49] trailer?

[2:58:49] >> Oh, no, they're permanent affixed.

[2:58:51] >> Are affixed. And then when you receive

[2:58:55] the data, do you go to the camera,

[2:58:58] download it manually onto like a thumb

[2:59:01] drive, bring it back, and then look at

[2:59:03] the data, or is this

[2:59:05] uh Bluetooth, wireless, Wi-Fi?

[2:59:08] >> Oh, it's all cellular-based. It's

[2:59:10] cloud-based. So, every camera's got a

[2:59:13] essentially a modem and a transmitter.

[2:59:15] [clears throat] So, it's constantly

[2:59:17] feeding data to the cloud and it's being

[2:59:19] That's how we receive alerts. So,

[2:59:22] if it

[2:59:23] The only real analytics that Flock does,

[2:59:28] as far as processing data or analyzing

[2:59:30] data, is as soon as a as soon as it

[2:59:33] makes a read, it'll check that license

[2:59:35] plate against the list of known stolen

[2:59:37] vehicles or against the hot list. And if

[2:59:40] it's on a hot list, it'll send an alert

[2:59:43] to all the users that have it set for to

[2:59:47] uh trigger off of that hot list.

[2:59:49] >> And then are these received within the

[2:59:51] vehicles as well as in the office or one

[2:59:54] or the other?

[2:59:55] >> Uh cell phones and um

[2:59:58] cell phones and email.

[3:00:00] >> Okay.

[3:00:01] Uh and then my other question is why do

[3:00:03] we choose the company Flock?

[3:00:06] And why not another company? Why not

[3:00:08] another camera?

[3:00:11] >> Right now, there's kind of there's

[3:00:12] three. There's kind of a upstart account

[3:00:14] I think it's called Ranker or something

[3:00:15] I can't remember the third company but

[3:00:18] when we were looking into it there were

[3:00:20] two primary companies there was Vigilant

[3:00:22] and there was Flock. Vigilant was the big dog in town and

[3:00:31] they were the big company they were the

[3:00:33] they had the most users

[3:00:35] um

[3:00:36] Flock some of the perks to Flock

[3:00:40] which was at the time they were

[3:00:41] partnered with Axon

[3:00:43] and so that was one of the things that

[3:00:45] kind of leaned us towards Flock along

[3:00:47] with the fact that Flock was dedicated

[3:00:50] law enforcement and safety um

[3:00:53] Vigilant was more commercial it was

[3:00:56] again like I said it was more it was

[3:00:58] established for more asset recovery

[3:01:00] banks insurance companies and stuff like

[3:01:02] that uh

[3:01:04] Flock was all just dedicated was

[3:01:06] dedicated for law enforcement and public

[3:01:08] safety police security parking garages

[3:01:11] and stuff like that and communities and

[3:01:13] stuff uh also Flock at the time had uh

[3:01:17] solar options and I

[3:01:20] don't think Vigilant had a solar option

[3:01:22] at that time where uh they all had to be

[3:01:25] hardwired so if we wanted to get

[3:01:27] Vigilant cameras we had to get power to

[3:01:30] everywhere we wanted them Flock they

[3:01:32] operate off of solar and also the cost

[3:01:36] for Flock was cheaper than Vigilant so

[3:01:39] there are multiple factors that led us

[3:01:40] to Flock.

[3:01:42] >> Okay thank you.

[3:01:43] >> Um any other thoughts over here?

[3:01:46] Uh Mr. Wingfield what are your what are

[3:01:47] your thoughts?

[3:01:48] >> Yeah I'll just keep them brief

[3:01:50] >> [clears throat]

[3:01:51] >> or I'll try.

[3:01:52] Uh I mean I think in general if we're

[3:01:53] worried about living in a police state

[3:01:55] we're we're we're too late right and if

[3:01:57] we're on our computer at our microwave

[3:01:59] on our phones I mean I'm carrying two

[3:02:01] tracking devices with me third if you

[3:02:04] want to count my watch every day and

[3:02:05] everywhere I go.

[3:02:07] Um

[3:02:09] So, you know, from that perspective I I

[3:02:11] think that we're late, right? But

[3:02:14] uh

[3:02:16] I I don't disagree with I think with

[3:02:18] what the mayor's asking for, which is

[3:02:19] some guardrails. So, I was just looking

[3:02:21] at the agenda item request and

[3:02:23] uh the under the recommended motion

[3:02:26] under B, it says remove any potential

[3:02:27] for software updates which violate uh our fourth amendment.

[3:02:33] I [clears throat] would think just to

[3:02:34] even add that that you know, that they

[3:02:36] would need to be any any potential

[3:02:38] software changes need to be approved

[3:02:40] through council regardless of what they

[3:02:42] are just so that there's information

[3:02:44] that's able to be shared with the

[3:02:45] public.

[3:02:46] Uh but I but I do see the the benefit uh

[3:02:49] as far as

[3:02:51] seeing who's coming in and out of our

[3:02:52] town. It For me, even if we didn't have

[3:02:55] them, just just go down the street cuz

[3:02:57] the next agency does. I mean, in every

[3:02:58] direction I think on Manteca's council

[3:03:00] meeting tonight, they have proposed

[3:03:02] another six to their like

[3:03:04] 90-some or whatever they've got going on

[3:03:06] in town already. Uh similar as you jump

[3:03:09] off into Modesto, you're going to grab

[3:03:10] it there. Oakdale, I'm sure. And then

[3:03:12] obviously Stockton's going to have them

[3:03:13] as well. So,

[3:03:15] um I don't think there's any avoiding

[3:03:16] them at this point. So,

[3:03:19] limiting the amount of information

[3:03:20] that's able to be gathered, if if that's

[3:03:22] even something that we'll be able to do

[3:03:25] in the future. So,

[3:03:26] I I totally get on board with with some

[3:03:29] type of requirement that that we can't

[3:03:31] change providers or um

[3:03:35] or software

[3:03:36] uh without council's approval. Um

[3:03:40] And as far as adding any additional

[3:03:42] cameras, I think that would be a two.

[3:03:43] That would be something that would would

[3:03:44] run through council as well.

[3:03:48] Um

[3:03:49] Councilmember Scharmann, do you have any

[3:03:51] thoughts on this?

[3:03:52] >> Actually,

[3:03:53] I have a question for Chief and then I

[3:03:54] have a question for you, Mr. Mayor.

[3:03:56] >> Yeah.

[3:03:57] >> Um Chief, respecting

[3:04:01] confidentiality of law enforcement.

[3:04:04] Can you walk me through the process of

[3:04:08] let's say City of Modesto

[3:04:12] reaches out and wants information.

[3:04:15] How how does that process work?

[3:04:19] >> Uh

[3:04:20] So, once we share data through Flock,

[3:04:22] the it's an integrated system. So, if we

[3:04:25] punch in a license plate, so when you're

[3:04:28] doing the search for a vehicle, like

[3:04:31] let's say you're looking for a specific

[3:04:33] uh you got a we got a

[3:04:35] suspect vehicle, it's a black Ford

[3:04:38] truck. Uh it came in came through the

[3:04:40] town approximately this time. We would

[3:04:42] do a search for black Ford truck and if

[3:04:44] we could find something that we thought

[3:04:46] was the suspect vehicle to get a license

[3:04:48] plate off of it, we would then run just

[3:04:50] that license plate uh through a more

[3:04:53] in-depth search and then running it

[3:04:55] through the further search kind of shows

[3:04:57] us all the cameras that it hit off of.

[3:04:59] So, if you do a search for a license

[3:05:01] plate number, it automatically searches

[3:05:04] the camera networks that we are

[3:05:06] connected with.

[3:05:07] >> And how far out does that that camera

[3:05:10] network extend?

[3:05:13] » Like I said, I'm

[3:05:15] not sure, but we we share with hundreds

[3:05:18] of California agencies.

[3:05:20] >> Okay.

[3:05:21] >> [snorts]

[3:05:22] [clears throat]

[3:05:22] >> So, my question for you, Mr. Mayor and

[3:05:25] Council Member Kay,

[3:05:26] how do you envision this

[3:05:30] citizens oversight committee? I mean,

[3:05:32] what are what in particular what are

[3:05:33] they what are they like?

[3:05:35] >> we need an auditing committee of

[3:05:37] citizens,

[3:05:38] maybe three people, so it's

[3:05:40] you know, it's odd,

[3:05:42] that

[3:05:43] >> [clears throat]

[3:05:44] >> once or twice a year go through an

[3:05:45] auditing process with the chief

[3:05:48] and present that information to us or to

[3:05:52] the community to make sure that

[3:05:54] everything's on the up and up,

[3:05:56] uh which I know it will be and I'm not

[3:05:59] This is not an assault on you, Chief. I think our cops are awesome. They do a

[3:06:03] great job here.

[3:06:04] I'm looking at the [clears throat]

[3:06:05] potential for it to be abused.

[3:06:08] Potential for a turnover in uh policing,

[3:06:11] council, all that stuff in the future.

[3:06:15] And then uh all of a sudden, I'm sitting

[3:06:18] in my front yard and I've got cameras on

[3:06:20] me

[3:06:21] eating my sandwich. You know what I'm

[3:06:23] saying? Like

[3:06:24] uh I think [clears throat] at some point

[3:06:27] it is over the top.

[3:06:29] And

[3:06:30] >> [clears throat]

[3:06:30] >> my line in the sand, personally, is

[3:06:33] the the the

[3:06:35] outskirts of town. I think anything in

[3:06:37] town is a is encroaching and I'm

[3:06:41] be interested to see what comes of the

[3:06:42] geo fence uh the the actual lawsuit when

[3:06:45] it gets to the the Supreme Court because

[3:06:47] it's already heading that way from my

[3:06:50] research on it.

[3:06:51] Um so in the meantime, while we're

[3:06:54] waiting, I don't want to step on the

[3:06:56] toes of the police to get to be able to

[3:06:58] use this to

[3:07:00] help you guys. It's a tech It's a

[3:07:02] technology and a tool.

[3:07:04] But at the same time, we got to make

[3:07:06] sure that our citizens aren't getting,

[3:07:08] you know,

[3:07:09] rolled up uh

[3:07:11] or accidentally abused and you not

[3:07:13] intentionally, right? Things that would

[3:07:16] potentially happen like

[3:07:19] uh I mean, I'll give you that example

[3:07:21] you used with black

[3:07:22] vehicle. Um I mean, that same exact

[3:07:25] scenario happened down in San Diego and

[3:07:28] a guy spent a month in jail and an

[3:07:30] innocent man was in a jail for a month

[3:07:33] because of uh

[3:07:34] human error.

[3:07:36] And And that's the kind of stuff that we

[3:07:38] have to have an internal policy,

[3:07:40] whatever you guys come up with

[3:07:43] for those potential approaches, so that

[3:07:46] stuff doesn't happen, a procedural

[3:07:48] thing.

[3:07:49] A citizen oversight committee, so we can

[3:07:51] guarantee to the citizens that yes, even

[3:07:55] though we know Chief is 100% uh a very

[3:07:58] honest guy, um that's confirmed. You

[3:08:01] know what I'm saying?

[3:08:03] And the other part of it is

[3:08:06] um

[3:08:07] the encroachment part. So, I mean, if I

[3:08:09] were to say what I would want it to look

[3:08:11] like, a three-person

[3:08:13] oversight committee meets with Chief and

[3:08:16] the city manager, maybe lawyer, however

[3:08:18] that would look. Uh maybe you have one

[3:08:21] council member on that board or

[3:08:22] something, and

[3:08:25] you have an oversight over it. You look

[3:08:27] at it. What's the error rate?

[3:08:29] Are we having any potential concerns

[3:08:31] with it? I mean, down in uh Illinois's

[3:08:34] Oak I think it was called Oak Valley or

[3:08:36] Oak

[3:08:37] Let me look it up real quick. Sorry. It

[3:08:39] was called

[3:08:42] Let me see here.

[3:08:44] In Illinois's Oak Park, Illinois, where

[3:08:46] they implemented that.

[3:08:48] >> [clears throat]

[3:08:48] >> They were coming up with a 30%

[3:08:51] That's a huge number to me. Error rate.

[3:08:54] In

[3:08:54] once they implemented the citizen board.

[3:08:57] So, like, those are the kind of things

[3:08:59] that

[3:09:00] help, I think, us

[3:09:02] guarantee the community that they're not

[3:09:04] going to have a problem, but at the same

[3:09:06] time

[3:09:08] uh you know, allows you to still use

[3:09:10] your technology

[3:09:12] to get those license plates when you

[3:09:13] need to.

[3:09:14] Um

[3:09:15] so, I would think that's one part of it

[3:09:18] when I flesh it out. The other part of

[3:09:20] it is to leave to is is no no further

[3:09:22] encroachment in the town. Like, where

[3:09:24] they're at now is where they're going to

[3:09:26] be 10 years from now, in theory.

[3:09:29] Kind of thing. And then the last part of

[3:09:31] it is like Councilman Casey saying the

[3:09:34] software update needs to be

[3:09:36] something that uh is guaran- is is

[3:09:39] specifically for license plates.

[3:09:42] You don't end up putting it on there and

[3:09:44] all of a sudden it's looking at faces.

[3:09:46] Now it's looking at Lord knows what

[3:09:49] else. Now [clears throat] I go grab a

[3:09:51] beer at the store and my social credit

[3:09:53] score drops. You know, all that kind of

[3:09:55] stuff that really has to be

[3:09:59] guard railed. You know what I'm saying?

[3:10:01] So, that's that's kind of where I'm

[3:10:03] coming from and to answer your question.

[3:10:06] >> Well, I'm

[3:10:06] clear on that. So, when you say update,

[3:10:08] you're you're talking update software

[3:10:11] updates that will add additional

[3:10:13] features beyond license plate

[3:10:16] >> Correct.

[3:10:17] >> reading.

[3:10:17] >> Correct.

[3:10:19] Cuz the original intent is to use to see

[3:10:21] the license plates, right?

[3:10:22] >> Yeah, I don't I don't think he's

[3:10:23] referring to just technology updates to

[3:10:26] prevent glitches.

[3:10:27] >> And they're they're constantly just like

[3:10:29] that's that's where you pay the

[3:10:30] subscription fee.

[3:10:32] They've got [clears throat] cloud base

[3:10:33] where they're doing protection, so

[3:10:34] they're constantly running updates,

[3:10:35] fixing fixing but fixing patches. So,

[3:10:37] this is the type of stuff that's

[3:10:38] constantly being updated, but they're

[3:10:40] not constantly adding new features.

[3:10:41] >> Which which I get get. I get that. But,

[3:10:43] I also look at most of these elites, if

[3:10:47] you call them that,

[3:10:49] um use China as their model, right? And

[3:10:52] in those systems, they there already

[3:10:55] exists software that can be input on

[3:10:58] this system

[3:11:00] uh

[3:11:00] and can be used to abuse or violate the

[3:11:04] Fourth Amendment on another level,

[3:11:07] right? So,

[3:11:09] Yeah, so well, yeah, that's true and and

[3:11:12] but not everyone is with their phone

[3:11:14] 24/7. You know what I'm saying? I mean,

[3:11:17] some people are, but I don't. Um

[3:11:20] so, so this is the thing I'm looking at

[3:11:23] is I just want to make sure we guarantee

[3:11:25] that. It's I mean, you know what they

[3:11:27] say about assuming things, right? So,

[3:11:29] that's not where we want to be is what

[3:11:31] my opinion.

[3:11:33] >> Well, now I'll also add that I I think

[3:11:36] this is a good conversation to have and

[3:11:38] just the fact that we can have this

[3:11:40] conversation and

[3:11:42] we can have the open debate about it.

[3:11:45] Goes to show just how different we are

[3:11:47] from the places like China.

[3:11:49] >> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm

[3:11:52] just making sure that I do my own due

[3:11:54] diligence to make sure that um when I

[3:11:58] look back on my life

[3:12:00] my grandson's not like, "Grandpa, what

[3:12:02] the heck you do?" You know what I'm

[3:12:04] saying? [clears throat]

[3:12:05] So so that's where I'm thinking I try to

[3:12:08] look and project forward. How could this

[3:12:10] potentially be abused? And where does

[3:12:12] that potentially go, right? When you

[3:12:15] flush it out, the way you're using it

[3:12:17] currently really isn't a big deal.

[3:12:20] When you start to flush that out though,

[3:12:22] that's that's a big meatball, so to

[3:12:24] speak. Um

[3:12:26] oh wait.

[3:12:28] Is any anyone else have anything before

[3:12:29] you go to the audience?

[3:12:31] >> Well, yeah. My second question that I

[3:12:33] was going to ask

[3:12:35] was um

[3:12:37] Chief, when Flock runs an update

[3:12:39] software update, do they explain

[3:12:41] [snorts] to you what's included in the

[3:12:43] update? Does it say security patch or

[3:12:46] does it say

[3:12:48] just an update's been ran. So my

[3:12:51] question is now is Chief having to turn

[3:12:54] into an IT guru to try to understand

[3:12:57] what what was included in that

[3:12:59] >> [clears throat]

[3:12:59] >> update?

[3:13:00] >> May I say something here?

[3:13:02] If they're going to provide new

[3:13:04] capabilities, new technology, they're

[3:13:06] going to they're going to monetize that.

[3:13:09] And they're going to they're going to

[3:13:10] their sales people are going to go to

[3:13:11] the police department and they're going

[3:13:12] to say, "Would you like to do X and Y?"

[3:13:14] They're not going to do it gratis.

[3:13:17] There have been iterations of Flock

[3:13:19] through the years with I've seen with

[3:13:20] several of my cities and clients that I

[3:13:22] have do work with.

[3:13:24] They've never once given any new

[3:13:26] features free. They do updates all the

[3:13:27] time. Security patches, glitches, that

[3:13:30] kind of thing. But in terms of new

[3:13:32] technology, we will know when it occurs

[3:13:34] cuz they will say for you know, X more

[3:13:36] amount of month, you can have this as

[3:13:37] well.

[3:13:38] >> It makes sense.

[3:13:39] >> new feature for speed that they're

[3:13:40] trying to sell me on a few months ago

[3:13:42] and I didn't want to pay for it.

[3:13:44] >> And the other thing, too, is that would

[3:13:46] be picked up, in theory, by an auditing

[3:13:48] committee.

[3:13:50] That's why

[3:13:50] >> And I think that the expansion of

[3:13:52] features like like that is again

[3:13:54] something that we are requesting that we

[3:13:55] be notified of if there is ever anything

[3:13:57] that takes place like that, rather than

[3:13:59] us having to explain to the community

[3:14:01] after the fact, like these five cameras.

[3:14:03] >> What they charge for that kind of stuff,

[3:14:05] it would need council approval.

[3:14:07] >> Okay. Good to know.

[3:14:08] >> Yeah.

[3:14:09] >> Any other thoughts before I put it out

[3:14:10] to the public?

[3:14:11] >> Last question.

[3:14:12] >> Oh, go for it.

[3:14:13] >> For Chief.

[3:14:16] Do you think the use of Flock cameras

[3:14:18] since 2023 has benefited the city of

[3:14:21] Escalon?

[3:14:22] >> Undoubtedly, yes.

[3:14:26] » I wouldn't argue that.

[3:14:27] What I'm looking at is

[3:14:29] >> Mission creep.

[3:14:30] >> Yeah, mission creep.

[3:14:32] >> Well, I I understand that, guys, but if

[3:14:33] you carry a cell phone, they already

[3:14:35] know where you're at. So, where's the balance?

[3:14:38] >> You can put it down and it's private and

[3:14:41] it's an option and this is not an

[3:14:42] option.

[3:14:43] That's the difference. The difference is

[3:14:45] the government is surveilling you

[3:14:47] instead of you surveilling yourself.

[3:14:49] >> I I agreed to these terms and

[3:14:51] conditions. I did not agree to you to

[3:14:52] the terms and conditions of Chief

[3:14:53] knowing every time I come in and out of

[3:14:54] town.

[3:14:55] >> Yeah. No.

[3:14:56] >> That's the difference.

[3:14:57] >> That's it.

[3:14:57] >> Um are you okay with me putting it out?

[3:14:59] >> Sure.

[3:15:00] >> Uh public, uh anyone in the public would

[3:15:02] like to speak to this situation.

[3:15:04] >> [cough and clears throat]

[3:15:06] >> Excuse me.

[3:15:08] >> I would Um Chief, I got a question.

[3:15:10] >> Mhm.

[3:15:11] >> Last month we had a

[3:15:12] 182 hits, right? Or leads, correct?

[3:15:16] >> Yes.

[3:15:16] >> And two hits, correct?

[3:15:18] >> Uh

[3:15:19] we still have four hits, I'm pretty

[3:15:20] sure.

[3:15:20] >> Yeah, that sounds about right.

[3:15:22] >> And so, were were those investigated?

[3:15:24] Were those cited? What what happened

[3:15:25] with those?

[3:15:26] Cuz my whole thing is if we're only

[3:15:27] using it for stolen vehicles, right?

[3:15:31] How much are we paying for that a month

[3:15:32] and is it really necessary? If it was

[3:15:34] just two hits, they can't even cuz you

[3:15:35] don't even go after the stolen license

[3:15:37] plate hits, right? What are the

[3:15:38] benefits?

[3:15:40] >> So, if you look at the total hits

[3:15:43] >> It was 180 or 852,000.

[3:15:45] >> That's total hits. Most of those are

[3:15:48] stolen license plates. We don't like I

[3:15:50] said, like I explained, going after

[3:15:52] stolen license plates, they're

[3:15:55] there's the error the margin of error in

[3:15:57] not getting the right vehicle is so

[3:15:58] high, we don't even go after them. The

[3:16:00] stolen vehicle, we will go after. The

[3:16:03] benefit is not just for the stolen

[3:16:04] vehicles, it is for the investigative

[3:16:06] tool where I mean, if you look at the

[3:16:10] report, I did indicate in this report

[3:16:12] and of there were three cases where

[3:16:13] health yards were used. One of them we

[3:16:15] actually identified the person that

[3:16:17] stole a bike and uh

[3:16:20] we know who they are. We're seeking a

[3:16:22] warrant for their arrest. There's

[3:16:24] another one where we've identified the

[3:16:26] vehicle.

[3:16:28] We identified We identified the vehicle,

[3:16:30] we just couldn't tie a person to the

[3:16:32] crime. So, we don't just get the license

[3:16:35] plate, say, "Okay, this is the vehicle,

[3:16:37] this is the license plate, we're going

[3:16:38] to go arrest the owner for a crime."

[3:16:40] It's We got the license plate. Now, this

[3:16:42] is an investigative tool. We can use

[3:16:44] this to see which people had access to

[3:16:46] this vehicle at the time of the crime to

[3:16:48] see if we can tie an actual person to

[3:16:50] the crime. No, I I get that. I

[3:16:51] understand that. What I'm I guess

[3:16:55] Just based off July, though, right?

[3:16:58] There was 182 hits, which means illegal

[3:17:00] activity, correct?

[3:17:02] >> So, a hit is an alert.

[3:17:04] >> Right. Well, well, I'm just saying. So,

[3:17:05] >> The hits are the hot list hits. Those

[3:17:07] are not officer searches.

[3:17:09] >> So, it's just that What I'm saying is

[3:17:11] that I'm pretty sure there was only two

[3:17:12] stolen vehicle scans last month.

[3:17:13] >> Correct.

[3:17:14] >> Right. So, what came of those two hits?

[3:17:17] >> Uh

[3:17:17] the vehicles were not located.

[3:17:19] >> So, nothing, right? So, the whole month

[3:17:22] we used those cameras just to watch

[3:17:23] people coming in and out of town or

[3:17:25] Well, what last What I'm asking is like

[3:17:27] month. Like last month for instance. And like your little screenshot with that data right there. Are those

[3:17:33] tied directly to you the use of Flock

[3:17:34] cameras?

[3:17:35] >> Uh

[3:17:36] the ones for 2024 are.

[3:17:38] >> So, every one of those arrests were tied

[3:17:39] directly from the use of our Flock

[3:17:41] cameras.

[3:17:41] >> I'm not going to say every one of them,

[3:17:43] but if you if you can see it's threefold

[3:17:46] from the year prior and the only

[3:17:48] difference is we got the Flock cameras.

[3:17:51] And I know the first year

[3:17:53] we had them, we were running hard cuz I had I got a couple of the stolen

[3:18:00] vehicles cuz every time we got an alert,

[3:18:01] we would respond to them and we would

[3:18:03] respond to the vehicle respond to the

[3:18:05] stolen vehicle alerts when we can.

[3:18:07] Again, we had two two alerts for stolen

[3:18:09] vehicles.

[3:18:10] If I'm busy on a call, if let's say you

[3:18:13] got your

[3:18:15] something happened, I'm taking a report

[3:18:16] from you. I get an alert, oh we got a

[3:18:18] stolen vehicle coming into town on

[3:18:20] Highway 120. I'm not going to break what

[3:18:22] I'm doing with you to go chase down the

[3:18:25] stolen car which I might not find. And

[3:18:27] the hits, just because it's a hit

[3:18:29] doesn't mean it's a good hit. As he

[3:18:31] said, the license plate it's reading

[3:18:33] does not mean it's the license plate

[3:18:35] that it was. There are several times,

[3:18:36] like I said, I would say at least one in

[3:18:38] nine. 30% seems kind of high, but if you

[3:18:41] said 10 to 15%

[3:18:43] >> that was

[3:18:44] >> I wouldn't lie or I wouldn't argue with

[3:18:46] that because there are times you see the

[3:18:49] license plate what it read, you see the

[3:18:50] license plate and you're like, oh it

[3:18:52] read a three and it should be an eight

[3:18:54] or it read an S when it should be an E.

[3:18:56] And you you look at it and it registered

[3:18:58] as a hit, but it wasn't a hit and you

[3:19:00] can disregard it and you don't even have

[3:19:01] to go out.

[3:19:02] >> Right, I'm not I'm not questioning what

[3:19:03] you're doing your job right or what's

[3:19:04] wrong. My question is from what people

[3:19:06] I've heard talk to you is are they

[3:19:08] really necessary?

[3:19:10] Are they a necessity for our town?

[3:19:13] And compared to how much I mean we how

[3:19:15] much do they cost a month to run? How

[3:19:16] much does the software cost? You know,

[3:19:18] people are just I mean just assuming

[3:19:19] like are they a real necessity? Do we

[3:19:21] really need those here? I mean, if

[3:19:23] you're going down that highway in there

[3:19:24] in Manteca, you're going down there,

[3:19:25] they're in Oakdale. You're going this

[3:19:26] way, they're in Modesto. I mean, are

[3:19:27] they really a necessity here in town?

[3:19:29] >> Each camera is about $2,400

[3:19:32] per year.

[3:19:33] And we close We close a lot more cases

[3:19:37] now than we have using Flock. We Like I

[3:19:40] said, we

[3:19:41] just last month there was a stolen bike

[3:19:43] or two stolen bikes that we were able to

[3:19:45] identify the suspects actually two

[3:19:47] suspects and get warrants for their

[3:19:48] arrest. And I would say at least every

[3:19:51] month there's probably a case that we

[3:19:53] solved and identified suspects based off

[3:19:55] of Flock cameras.

[3:19:57] >> Okay.

[3:19:59] That's my question.

[3:20:01] >> Thank you.

[3:20:01] >> Uh next person

[3:20:04] » [clears throat and cough]

[3:20:07] » Uh the community I came from

[3:20:10] Mr. Mayor, they not only stole your damn

[3:20:13] sandwich, but they probably stole your

[3:20:14] truck.

[3:20:16] So they could take it home, you know? So

[3:20:18] I just

[3:20:19] you got to put up some safeguards and I

[3:20:21] understand there's got to be oversight

[3:20:22] and all that kind of stuff, but I'm 100%

[3:20:25] behind the chief in the in the use of

[3:20:27] whatever kind of technology that's

[3:20:30] within reason and I think this is within

[3:20:32] reason.

[3:20:33] So

[3:20:34] I'm all for you and I'm all for law

[3:20:36] enforcement

[3:20:37] and keep this community safe. It's a

[3:20:40] nice little place.

[3:20:41] >> It is. It is.

[3:20:42] Glad you're part of it now.

[3:20:44] >> Thank you all. You're doing a great job

[3:20:45] in

[3:20:46] >> Uh ooh, there's Sherry coming up.

[3:20:52] » Um

[3:20:53] first of all

[3:20:55] >> [clears throat]

[3:20:56] >> I don't know about your three things,

[3:20:58] you know, and the and the citizen

[3:20:59] oversight. I I think really you could

[3:21:01] probably accomplish what you want to do

[3:21:04] very easily just by

[3:21:06] codifying it. In other words, the

[3:21:08] cameras we have, that's what we have.

[3:21:10] There will be and then state no cameras

[3:21:13] within, you know, residential areas. Um

[3:21:16] no audio ever to be done, no facial

[3:21:20] recognition. You can be done within

[3:21:22] codes. You know what I'm saying? I mean,

[3:21:24] we could do that. You you you all can do

[3:21:26] that. You can put those codes on this

[3:21:28] system and problem solved as far as

[3:21:32] what can be done in the future. We've

[3:21:33] already codified it. The where we have

[3:21:36] the cameras, quite frankly, I think

[3:21:38] they're wonderful. And being a grandma

[3:21:40] with small children, I think they're

[3:21:41] awesome. Um, I'm behind it 1,000%. Not

[3:21:46] on my street.

[3:21:48] Cuz it's my private street. It's like I

[3:21:50] have cameras on the outside of my home.

[3:21:53] I don't have cameras inside my home. So,

[3:21:55] it's the same kind of concept. So, just

[3:21:58] codify it. I mean

[3:21:59] >> Well, that's kind of what I'm getting

[3:22:00] at.

[3:22:00] >> Yeah, so just codify it. I mean, it's very simple. Just say, "What we

[3:22:03] have now on the major arteries, those

[3:22:06] are the cameras that we're going to use.

[3:22:07] You know, keep them updated, keep

[3:22:09] updating the software, whatever needs to

[3:22:11] be." Then also put in the code, "No

[3:22:13] audio, no facial recognition."

[3:22:17] You know, if if something comes down in

[3:22:18] the future and then there's going to

[3:22:20] have to be a fight in this room over

[3:22:22] changing it. You see what I'm saying?

[3:22:23] That would be really simple to do. Um,

[3:22:27] if you do pursue citizen oversight, I I

[3:22:30] want to make sure that they're not like

[3:22:31] looking at the cameras, they're not

[3:22:32] looking at information, they're not

[3:22:34] looking, they're just looking at data.

[3:22:35] Is that correct?

[3:22:36] >> Correct.

[3:22:37] >> If you

[3:22:38] choose and you have to go that way, I'll

[3:22:40] volunteer. But, um, otherwise, I I think

[3:22:42] you can do it within code. I really do.

[3:22:45] >> I

[3:22:45] think you can in theory to a certain

[3:22:47] extent, but

[3:22:49] Um, anyone else?

[3:22:53] » [clears throat]

[3:22:55] >> Excuse me.

[3:22:57] >> Cassie.

[3:22:58] >> Um, yeah, I have some questions. Uh,

[3:23:01] you say that we only have access to this

[3:23:03] data. Correct? Where's stored? On the

[3:23:06] cloud?

[3:23:08] But, the company has access to it.

[3:23:09] Correct?

[3:23:11] >> Well, I mean

[3:23:11] >> What I read online. Anybody who works

[3:23:14] there can technically access that data.

[3:23:17] >> Right.

[3:23:18] >> And they all answer to their investors,

[3:23:19] correct?

[3:23:21] >> Well, they answer to their

[3:23:23] >> They have multiple investors.

[3:23:24] >> Well, they also have customers and if

[3:23:26] they started doing that, then again, one

[3:23:28] of the reasons that Flock became so

[3:23:30] popular in law enforcement field was

[3:23:34] their uh

[3:23:36] their dedication to law enforcement and

[3:23:38] Vigilant is a commercial company. They

[3:23:42] do sell They do sell their data. They do

[3:23:45] monetize their data. They do

[3:23:46] commercialize their data. Flock

[3:23:49] does not. Are they lying?

[3:23:51] It's a possibility.

[3:23:53] >> Yeah.

[3:23:53] >> But

[3:23:54] why would they do that? And then they're

[3:23:55] going to ruin their credibility and

[3:23:57] everybody's going to flee to another

[3:24:00] company. Again, there's another company

[3:24:01] that's starting up trying to draw

[3:24:03] business from Flock. I can't remember

[3:24:05] their name, but there is a third company

[3:24:06] now getting in the mix.

[3:24:07] >> Got it. I'm just saying that there is

[3:24:09] room for that kind of stuff to happen.

[3:24:12] And it I feel like it was

[3:24:15] which I get you feel like it's very

[3:24:16] safe.

[3:24:18] But there is room for it to not be.

[3:24:20] Cuz you have this data that you're

[3:24:23] collecting from our community that we

[3:24:25] didn't agree to

[3:24:27] out

[3:24:28] and about.

[3:24:29] >> But also, there are no laws that

[3:24:31] prohibit private companies from

[3:24:32] collecting LPR data. So, let's say we

[3:24:35] didn't have cameras and Flock decided to

[3:24:37] Okay, we're going to make it We're going

[3:24:38] to do We're going to go We're going to

[3:24:41] follow the Vigilant model. We're going

[3:24:42] to do commercial Flock. Flock as a

[3:24:44] company could just put up cameras that

[3:24:47] we're not purchasing, collect that data,

[3:24:49] and then sell that data to us.

[3:24:51] >> Which I mean, I get, but that's not

[3:24:52] something that we can control, right?

[3:24:54] Th- This is something that we can have a

[3:24:57] conversation about and control.

[3:24:59] >> Right.

[3:24:59] >> I'm about controlling things I can

[3:25:00] control and not the things that I can't

[3:25:02] control, cuz I'll go crazy.

[3:25:04] So,

[3:25:06] I do have a problem with private

[3:25:09] companies having access to data

[3:25:13] um

[3:25:14] in our community. I mean, I told my

[3:25:16] 6-year-old daughter, she goes, "Where

[3:25:18] are you going? Why are you dressed up?

[3:25:20] Where are you going?"

[3:25:21] I said, "Oh, I'm going to go talk to the

[3:25:23] city cuz you know,

[3:25:25] we got these cameras that I don't really

[3:25:26] appreciate." And she goes,

[3:25:29] "There are cameras watching me in my

[3:25:31] city?" And I'm all, I mean, even the

[3:25:33] 6-year-old gets it, right?

[3:25:35] So, I want to make sure that

[3:25:41] people who shouldn't have our

[3:25:42] information don't have our information.

[3:25:44] And I feel like if

[3:25:47] we're putting up cameras,

[3:25:49] we're allowing other people into our

[3:25:51] lives that

[3:25:53] don't necessarily need to be there.

[3:25:55] If it was going just directly to you,

[3:25:58] fine, but it's not. It's it's out there

[3:26:00] for everybody. And I don't I don't like

[3:26:03] that. And

[3:26:06] uh

[3:26:07] I mean, as far as police officers using

[3:26:09] it,

[3:26:10] I mean,

[3:26:11] those victim numbers are the ones you

[3:26:14] guys caught, right? I mean, as far as

[3:26:17] police officers misusing, I'm sure

[3:26:19] there's way more than that. I personally

[3:26:21] have been a victim of a police officer

[3:26:24] doing things that they shouldn't do, and

[3:26:26] I know it happens.

[3:26:27] And I'm sure there are many more that

[3:26:29] aren't caught. I'm not saying you guys

[3:26:30] are doing that.

[3:26:32] But I'm just saying

[3:26:33] I agree that guardrails absolutely need

[3:26:35] to be put on this

[3:26:37] if we do keep them up.

[3:26:40] Thank you guys for listening.

[3:26:41] >> Thanks for your input.

[3:26:43] Any- anyone else?

[3:26:46] Online?

[3:26:49] Bring back to the dais. Um

[3:26:51] anyone else have any other thoughts or

[3:26:53] >> Had a one quick question for for Chief

[3:26:56] that uh she just sparked for me.

[3:26:58] It'd [clears throat and cough] be a

[3:26:58] violation of their contract if they

[3:26:59] started selling it pri- privately,

[3:27:02] right?

[3:27:02] >> Most likely, yeah.

[3:27:03] >> I mean, I would be sure there's

[3:27:04] something in that contract that that

[3:27:06] states

[3:27:07] >> Yeah.

[3:27:07] >> uh for governmental protection, right?

[3:27:09] So, they would be violating their

[3:27:10] contract if they went sold the uh the

[3:27:12] data to an outside entity that was not

[3:27:14] law enforcement. So, uh you know, aside

[3:27:16] from that, you know, as far as getting

[3:27:18] hacked or or any you know, I mean, every

[3:27:19] device that we carry, the the Ring

[3:27:21] cameras on our houses, uh you can't walk

[3:27:23] down the street without being recorded

[3:27:24] by something that can absolutely be

[3:27:26] being hacked and be be tracing you. We

[3:27:28] just want to ensure that as a government

[3:27:30] that we are not doing any more than what

[3:27:34] we feel is uh

[3:27:35] absolutely necessary for the community.

[3:27:38] Um the only other thing that uh I really

[3:27:40] have um I I wonder if rather than us

[3:27:43] establishing a committee, would we maybe

[3:27:45] be better to just have an annual update

[3:27:48] or a biannual update,

[3:27:50] uh you know, from the chief where he

[3:27:51] brings the the information in here and

[3:27:53] it shows it to the community the same

[3:27:54] way they did tonight?

[3:27:56] >> Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be against

[3:27:58] that.

[3:27:58] >> And the only reason I mentioned that is

[3:27:59] that we've had such a hard time filling

[3:28:01] our Measure P committee. Uh you know, I

[3:28:03] don't know how many uh you know,

[3:28:05] volunteers we're going to get for this.

[3:28:07] >> I mean, I wouldn't necessarily be

[3:28:08] against it as long as

[3:28:10] if we're getting the answers we need to

[3:28:11] get and there's no confusion, like it's

[3:28:14] a streamline process. I know Chief knows

[3:28:16] what he's talking about and doing. I

[3:28:18] just I'm [clears throat] looking at more

[3:28:20] the future of how it could potentially

[3:28:22] go and it could be a real slippery slope

[3:28:24] and you know, we could be talking about

[3:28:28] uh going sideways real quick, you know,

[3:28:30] with that kind of stuff. So,

[3:28:33] But but to that point, Mr. I think

[3:28:35] Sherry [clears throat] brings up a

[3:28:37] very valid point and

[3:28:39] put it in the Escalon Municipal Code.

[3:28:41] Make

[3:28:41] >> Well, that's what I'm talk That's what I

[3:28:43] was trying to get to is that

[3:28:46] I would

[3:28:48] Is everyone done talking?

[3:28:49] >> No.

[3:28:50] Okay. Um

[3:28:52] well, I was I was wanting to make a

[3:28:54] motion at at point,

[3:28:56] but I'll give it to you. Pro tip, what

[3:28:59] do you got?

[3:28:59] >> Okay, so one thing I missed on the first

[3:29:01] time around

[3:29:03] >> [clears throat]

[3:29:04] >> something I'm uncomfortable with because

[3:29:07] police officers to surveil must be in

[3:29:11] view, right? So, they cannot be hiding

[3:29:14] behind a bush.

[3:29:15] Right?

[3:29:16] >> What do you mean?

[3:29:17] >> Uh the police car has to be

[3:29:19] viewed on the side of the road.

[3:29:22] You can't like be hiding in the side of

[3:29:24] the

[3:29:25] >> Like when we're working traffic or

[3:29:26] something.

[3:29:27] >> Yeah, yeah, we can.

[3:29:28] >> Okay. Well, I am still uncomfortable

[3:29:30] with there not being signage on the

[3:29:34] cameras, right? So, like you are being

[3:29:37] you are in a public space, you have you

[3:29:39] are being surveilled. Like you should be

[3:29:41] able to tell people that you are being

[3:29:44] watched by a camera. The government

[3:29:46] should be telling you. So, I am very

[3:29:48] uncomfortable with having

[3:29:50] I don't know. I'm really uncomfortable

[3:29:52] with having hidden police officers

[3:29:53] everywhere.

[3:29:55] >> [laughter]

[3:29:55] >> Not here, but everywhere.

[3:29:56] Uh but uh that there is not any signage

[3:30:00] on the surveillance

[3:30:02] uh cameras. So, I just want to put that

[3:30:04] out there before you go on your

[3:30:06] um

[3:30:08] monologue.

[3:30:09] >> Sorry.

[3:30:10] >> That's okay. Um

[3:30:12] with the systems in general before and

[3:30:14] while I get here, I am very worried that

[3:30:16] this is a violation or will be a

[3:30:18] violation of our fourth amendment

[3:30:19] rights.

[3:30:21] Um and this is like a warrantless search

[3:30:24] in general. Like that's that's it.

[3:30:26] There's no warrant for the search and

[3:30:28] everybody I if somebody want to know if

[3:30:30] I was in town or out of town, they could

[3:30:32] say I'm in town or out of town and I

[3:30:34] don't like that as an individual

[3:30:35] citizen. I should be able to go come as

[3:30:37] I please without the government knowing

[3:30:40] where I am.

[3:30:42] Um not that I'm doing anything wrong,

[3:30:44] but I'm an individual sovereign citizen

[3:30:47] apart from the government entity and

[3:30:50] those are supposed to remain separate.

[3:30:52] Um the other thing that has nothing to

[3:30:55] do

[3:30:56] with the Well, it does actually. Uh I

[3:30:58] don't like setting up the infrastructure

[3:31:01] for a mass surveillance system, whether

[3:31:03] it's today or in the future. And that

[3:31:05] mass surveillance system I'm very

[3:31:07] uncomfortable with. If we end up moving

[3:31:09] forward, I would be more comfortable

[3:31:11] with this to be a mobile system and not

[3:31:14] just setting in stone that we have like

[3:31:18] in the cement that we have a mass

[3:31:20] surveillance system in and out of our

[3:31:22] cities.

[3:31:23] Um I would be more comfortable with that

[3:31:25] and then I would be more comfortable

[3:31:26] with signage on the um

[3:31:29] cameras themselves. And then I like the

[3:31:31] codification, not in residential areas,

[3:31:34] right? So, okay. That's before.

[3:31:37] That's what I got.

[3:31:39] >> Anything [clears throat] else, though?

[3:31:43] Okay.

[3:31:44] >> Okay, Chief.

[3:31:45] >> All right. Well, I'd like to make a

[3:31:46] motion

[3:31:47] to um if we're going to keep the the

[3:31:51] cameras we currently have

[3:31:53] >> [clears throat]

[3:31:53] >> that we codify

[3:31:55] um

[3:31:57] not in any residential

[3:32:00] and we keep it to the

[3:32:02] uh current five cameras we have.

[3:32:05] Um

[3:32:06] that no software updates

[3:32:09] uh that have new technologies be allowed

[3:32:13] until it's been brought to the community

[3:32:16] forum.

[3:32:18] Um

[3:32:20] Excuse me. [clears throat]

[3:32:21] Um and if

[3:32:23] the Supreme Court does rule on it being

[3:32:26] a Fourth Amendment violation, that we do

[3:32:29] remove those uh if it does come down to

[3:32:33] that.

[3:32:34] Um

[3:32:37] Is there anything I'm missing?

[3:32:40] >> I think

[3:32:40] >> Oversight.

[3:32:41] >> Oh, yeah. And then auditing process, I

[3:32:44] would be be with initially doing uh once

[3:32:47] your auditing process through the

[3:32:49] community with Chief.

[3:32:51] And if it looks like there's a concern

[3:32:53] there,

[3:32:54] uh then we can at that point flush it

[3:32:57] out.

[3:32:58] Um

[3:33:00] Yeah, that would be my motion.

[3:33:02] >> So, just to be clear, the auditing the

[3:33:04] Chief would basically do an annual

[3:33:05] report

[3:33:07] >> [clears throat]

[3:33:07] >> uh

[3:33:08] >> Yeah, cuz it's important

[3:33:09] how many error rates there are.

[3:33:12] Uh has anyone been shot because

[3:33:14] >> understand that. I understand what's

[3:33:15] important and why it's important. I'm

[3:33:16] just saying you want Chief to do that.

[3:33:19] >> Um well

[3:33:20] >> Cuz you said through the community.

[3:33:21] >> I would like the community to play a

[3:33:22] role in that, so

[3:33:24] >> Well, then we have to spend time

[3:33:25] discussing what that means because

[3:33:27] >> Okay.

[3:33:28] >> you just opened a can of worms by saying

[3:33:29] through the committee.

[3:33:30] >> Okay. Well, through a

[3:33:32] um

[3:33:34] You want to do oversight from council

[3:33:36] member?

[3:33:38] Two? Probably two, right? At least two.

[3:33:41] >> Two council members in Cherry Hill?

[3:33:43] >> Yeah.

[3:33:44] >> So, if you If you If you create erect

[3:33:46] some kind of committee now, that's going

[3:33:48] to be subject to the Brown Act.

[3:33:49] >> Okay.

[3:33:50] >> So, then you guys can all meet with the

[3:33:51] Chief and discuss doing an audit with

[3:33:53] Brown Act and public comment. You just

[3:33:55] be careful about what you're opening up

[3:33:57] in terms of making it more difficult and

[3:33:59] onerous. Cuz I think part of the idea

[3:34:01] was to be able to review this sort of

[3:34:03] and there's going to be discreet

[3:34:05] investigation. There's going to be

[3:34:06] There's going to Sorry, discreet

[3:34:07] information and stuff that is

[3:34:09] confidential investigative materials as

[3:34:10] well.

[3:34:11] >> Correct.

[3:34:12] >> And then you're going to have

[3:34:12] non-subject matters reviewing the

[3:34:14] subject matter experts. And then you got

[3:34:15] to be careful who's on the committee cuz

[3:34:17] you may get defund activists that are on

[3:34:19] the committee.

[3:34:20] So, you just have to be careful and

[3:34:21] think through all these things. I think

[3:34:23] a basic report out from the Chief on

[3:34:25] annual basis

[3:34:25] >> Why don't we start there? And then we

[3:34:27] can research that other stuff.

[3:34:29] >> You can get legal advice on that one.

[3:34:32] >> So, but Mr. Mayor, that would be the

[3:34:34] motion. Oh, sorry.

[3:34:36] >> Um

[3:34:36] Instead of doing a a yearly report, um

[3:34:39] maybe just to drive greater

[3:34:41] transparency. Uh

[3:34:43] quarterly or

[3:34:45] every 6 months as opposed to

[3:34:48] >> [clears throat]

[3:34:48] >> How much of a concern is that to your

[3:34:50] working schedule?

[3:34:52] >> I mean

[3:34:52] >> What?

[3:34:54] Is that a a big problem?

[3:34:55] >> to figure out exactly what's going to go

[3:34:57] in these audit reports. Once I figure

[3:35:00] out what the audit report's going to be,

[3:35:02] it shouldn't be too difficult to pull

[3:35:04] the information.

[3:35:05] >> I just

[3:35:06] >> On point of order, we have a motion on

[3:35:08] the table.

[3:35:09] >> You're right.

[3:35:10] >> Um I'll second the motion.

[3:35:12] >> Okay. All in favor say aye.

[3:35:14] >> Aye.

[3:35:15] >> All opposed say nay.

[3:35:16] >> Nay.

[3:35:17] >> Okay. So

[3:35:19] we are done for the night.

[3:35:23] Okay. I think we're done for the night.

[3:35:24] Uh we'll go to council communications

[3:35:26] then. Um

[3:35:28] Councilman Ingle, let's start on your

[3:35:29] side this time.

[3:35:30] >> Yeah, thank you. Let me just pull up the

[3:35:31] notes here.

[3:35:35] Um okay. So uh lots of stuff in the

[3:35:38] news, you know, about uh potentially

[3:35:40] extreme weather in in the winter with,

[3:35:42] you know, a high likelihood of there it

[3:35:44] being an El Niño season. Um so what what

[3:35:47] I was hoping is that

[3:35:50] uh we could make sure to review uh and

[3:35:53] have a plan in place

[3:35:55] uh for

[3:35:57] um storm preparedness uh just in case we

[3:36:00] do experience uh you know, large

[3:36:02] quantities of water like we did last

[3:36:03] season just to make sure that we're

[3:36:04] thoroughly equipped to handle

[3:36:07] um the event and and have all

[3:36:09] contingencies in place. So I'd like to

[3:36:11] get that um on the agenda if I can get

[3:36:13] consensus from

[3:36:14] >> I would back I would back that.

[3:36:16] >> Thank you. Appreciate that. And uh it's

[3:36:18] been long enough night. That's all I

[3:36:19] have. Thank you.

[3:36:22] >> Councilman Stroman.

[3:36:24] >> Sure. I'll make my comments brief. Uh

[3:36:28] It's good to be back. Uh

[3:36:31] started a new job recently which is

[3:36:34] um

[3:36:36] requiring a lot of extra road time. So,

[3:36:39] the first meeting of the month I

[3:36:41] had to attend an overnight event in

[3:36:43] Santa Clara.

[3:36:45] Last week I had to attend a

[3:36:48] school board meeting.

[3:36:49] So, I apologize to

[3:36:52] this council and the community for not

[3:36:53] attending the last two meetings. Uh

[3:36:56] fortunately the the job called.

[3:36:58] Um

[3:37:00] only other thing I'd like to dis- just

[3:37:03] have a discussion on um

[3:37:06] really want to look at

[3:37:08] um

[3:37:09] our

[3:37:11] uh weed abatement uh policy at a future

[3:37:15] meeting.

[3:37:16] Uh last Friday night the Lions Club held

[3:37:20] one of their um

[3:37:22] car shows at Hula's.

[3:37:25] I was uh at the Bonnie's. I walked over

[3:37:28] and the field behind Hula's was quite

[3:37:32] honestly an embarrassment.

[3:37:34] It was an embarrassment for

[3:37:36] the city. It was an embarrassment for

[3:37:39] Hula's. It was an embarrassment for the

[3:37:41] Lions Club. It was just really a poor

[3:37:43] reflection of our city.

[3:37:45] So,

[3:37:47] today

[3:37:49] uh the old property owner decided to cut

[3:37:52] everything down

[3:37:54] and just leave everything.

[3:37:56] That was their way of

[3:37:58] resolving the issue. And so now they've created an even bigger issue

[3:38:03] cuz

[3:38:04] now you have grass and trash. So, and I

[3:38:08] understand

[3:38:09] it's a sensitive issue because there are

[3:38:11] some community members that can't afford

[3:38:14] um weed abatement.

[3:38:17] But, those I think those are the

[3:38:19] anomaly. So, I just want to look at the

[3:38:22] our policy and see

[3:38:25] cuz right now I mean correct me if I'm

[3:38:27] wrong, city manager, but

[3:38:29] we send letter after letter after letter and I wouldn't be behind it

[3:38:34] if we're not looking at like a

[3:38:36] compliance officer. No. Like I I don't

[3:38:39] want to be targeting citizens.

[3:38:41] Absolutely. Um, so

[3:38:44] if if it's but if we can look into like

[3:38:48] how we can maybe make that policy have

[3:38:50] more teeth.

[3:38:51] >> That's exactly what I'm trying to figure

[3:38:53] out.

[3:38:53] >> Yeah, I would be behind that.

[3:38:55] >> Yes, for sure.

[3:38:55] >> Because cuz it's it's a poor reflection

[3:38:58] of the community and

[3:39:00] I mean,

[3:39:01] not expectation is not somebody driving

[3:39:03] around looking for these things but

[3:39:06] really adding more teeth to the policy.

[3:39:08] So,

[3:39:09] just want to have a conversation

[3:39:09] [clears throat] about it.

[3:39:11] >> Okay. Is that enough direction? Okay.

[3:39:13] >> Uh,

[3:39:14] and other than that, uh, it's late.

[3:39:16] Thanks everybody for your input.

[3:39:18] >> Councilman K.

[3:39:20] Um,

[3:39:21] had something that I'm just going to

[3:39:22] hold off on cuz it's gotten so late.

[3:39:24] Chief, thank you very much for putting

[3:39:25] it all together for us and fielding all

[3:39:28] of these questions and all of this

[3:39:29] discussion. Seems like you you got more

[3:39:31] of the focus tonight than than you

[3:39:33] usually do and I appreciate the

[3:39:35] your ability to have those questions

[3:39:37] bounced off of you and and you come back

[3:39:39] with with perfect answers every single

[3:39:41] time. You do a great job and I really

[3:39:43] appreciate you. Justin, thanks for not

[3:39:44] falling asleep over there. On that note,

[3:39:47] >> Thank you guys for sticking it out with

[3:39:48] us.

[3:39:49] >> [laughter]

[3:39:50] >> Uh, have a great night.

[3:39:51] >> Okay.

[3:39:51] >> Pro tem.

[3:39:52] >> Just a couple comments on this evening.

[3:39:55] Great conversations today. I just want

[3:39:58] to thank Chief for all the all the

[3:40:00] questions we've thrown at him today and

[3:40:02] just state that I have all the faith in

[3:40:05] the world in our human police force. You

[3:40:07] guys have done a great job since I've

[3:40:09] been here in Echelon. You continue to do

[3:40:11] a great job

[3:40:12] connecting with the community. So,

[3:40:14] appreciate you guys.

[3:40:16] Um,

[3:40:17] and we need to make sure that humans

[3:40:18] remain the collective, right? So, as

[3:40:21] we're going into this age of machines

[3:40:25] and cameras and robots and automation,

[3:40:27] the humans must win. Like, the humans

[3:40:29] must be the collective of things and

[3:40:32] people that run things. And so, when we

[3:40:34] are deciding to vote on things, to

[3:40:36] automate things, and that kind of stuff,

[3:40:38] we should make sure that we

[3:40:43] uh you know, in my opinion, we need to

[3:40:44] make sure that we keep staff, that we

[3:40:47] hold on to staff, that we're not

[3:40:48] automating things to

[3:40:51] let staff and humans go and have this

[3:40:54] just come in and be empty, just you type

[3:40:58] things in like at the kiosk at

[3:41:00] McDonald's, and then you get an answer

[3:41:02] from a screen. So, um that's my concern

[3:41:05] when I'm uh digitalization and the

[3:41:08] automation, that we stay as long we stay

[3:41:11] the hometown feel, we stay where we

[3:41:13] connect with people, and we're doing

[3:41:15] business with people, and we're making

[3:41:18] um we're making uh com uh relationships

[3:41:22] with our staff and our people, with our

[3:41:25] community. So, that's my commentary on

[3:41:29] this evening, and it's yeah, been a

[3:41:32] great night. That's it.

[3:41:34] >> I'll keep it short and sweet as well. Um

[3:41:37] Chief, I do appreciate your

[3:41:38] professionalism on this. I

[3:41:40] >> [clears throat]

[3:41:40] >> no intent I wasn't trying to throw

[3:41:42] arrows at you. I just want to make sure

[3:41:44] that we have a very well-thought-out

[3:41:46] approach uh

[3:41:48] to where [clears throat] you guys are

[3:41:50] able to use it where you need to, but

[3:41:52] we're not putting, you know,

[3:41:54] um

[3:41:56] putting it in play where it could be

[3:41:58] over the top abusive.

[3:41:59] Um

[3:42:00] so, I do appreciate that. Um other than

[3:42:03] that, I don't have anything else. Um you

[3:42:04] guys have a good night, and Congressman,

[3:42:07] thank you for coming, cuz I know you're

[3:42:09] going to win. So,

[3:42:10] appreciate [laughter] it.

[3:42:13] >> [clears throat]

[3:42:13] >> Thank you.

[3:42:15] >> Um I've actually been uh thinking about

[3:42:18] doing it for a while.

[3:42:21] My dad did it for me.

[3:42:22] >> I got my bag.

City of Escalon City Council Meeting, August 17, 2026 7:00pm

Transcript