[1:19] Okay,

[1:21] good evening. The time is

[1:24] 6 o'clock. It is August 27th and I'm

[1:27] calling this meeting back to order.

[1:30] Debbie, can you please call roll

[1:34] » here?

[1:44] » City administrator Jinsby or Matt Lawn,

[1:48] you are on council. Tonight, the

[1:50] workshop that we have tonight will just

[1:52] kind of be a culmination of what we have

[1:54] discussed over previous meetings and

[1:56] during previous workshops,

[1:59] excuse me, input that we've received

[2:00] from the council through our goal

[2:03] setting exercises.

[2:05] Uh Matt Lawn is here to present it at

[2:07] the end of this and meeting

[2:12] will ask you to authorize publication.

[2:23] In no way are we approving the budget.

[2:26] All that we will do this

[2:30] for September

[2:34] this year because we have been able to

[2:36] reduce our budgets

[2:38] levy and maintain rate.

[2:47] Only need a hearing.

[2:57] I guess when was that decided?

[2:59] >> Yes,

[2:59] >> we haven't even gone through the budget.

[3:01] So I I don't I'm asking the question of

[3:04] >> we haven't approved what we're

[3:07] >> we haven't gone through the budget to

[3:08] determine whether that is what we're

[3:13] doing or it's not what we're doing. We

[3:15] haven't been presented with anything to

[3:17] really go through and determine is

[3:20] everything in the budget what we want or

[3:22] are there changes that need to be made.

[3:24] So basically we're just going in blind.

[3:28] >> Tell me what I'm

[3:32] answer.

[3:36] So,

[3:37] >> well, one thing we're missing is we

[3:39] asked last meeting um what would happen

[3:43] to our tax

[3:45] >> income from sales tax if we stayed at

[3:48] revenue neutral rate versus if we stayed

[3:51] at a flat mill levy versus going to the

[3:56] suggested mill levy that was adopted.

[3:58] >> And I mean, I' I've looked into it and I

[4:01] can't find anything

[4:03] definitive on what

[4:07] Okay.

[4:13] » Correct.

[4:14] >> It'll impact.

[4:17] >> Yes.

[4:17] >> Correct. So, we don't know what the loss

[4:19] is going to be.

[4:20] >> I don't I don't believe

[4:25] » it's a very difficult

[4:30] thing to measure because I don't have

[4:32] access to what the county

[4:38] So,

[4:38] >> so, so this is all forecasting of what

[4:41] we think sales tax always is. But

[4:44] >> can you give us could you give us a

[4:47] reasonable range of what kind of impact

[4:51] that would be

[4:53] >> but you're also taking into account the

[4:54] fact your sales tax

[5:02] use a

[5:04] We use a

[5:09] standard based on

[5:13] what I use indexing

[5:20] and you know market related revenue

[5:25] using

[5:31] so I don't anticipate that any

[5:36] your mill.

[5:57] It's not going to

[6:02] less

[6:11] grow.

[6:17] So I guess my question is based on

[6:21] Sedwick County um they have shown that

[6:26] they expect their sales tax to go down

[6:30] their sales tax revenue

[6:31] >> their portion

[6:33] >> and because our portion is based on

[6:35] their portion would ours not go down in

[6:37] the same respect

[6:39] >> they're they're going to receive it less

[6:42] portion because they're

[6:43] >> correct and

[6:44] >> that will not impact not impact Yes, it

[6:47] will.

[6:48] >> It does. According to the formula,

[6:50] >> according to the formula that's used by

[6:52] the state, 50% is still based on

[6:54] population and the other 50% is based on

[6:59] this county's property tax. Um,

[7:02] >> but they're not amount of tax that they

[7:06] are. So what they received they they

[7:10] received full amount

[7:13] the amount tax that they received

[7:16] portion of what was the amount that they

[7:17] were levying

[7:20] >> it's the county sales tax not the

[7:22] property tax

[7:24] >> yes the county county 1% tax that tax is

[7:27] shared between

[7:28] >> correct

[7:30] >> yes

[7:32] >> that 1% portion is not changing

[7:36] >> it's it's not but The the county has

[7:38] also already stated that they were going

[7:40] to lose at least $600,000 by only

[7:42] capturing 4.2% and I I don't know what

[7:45] they actually ended up passing yesterday

[7:46] morning. It was pro they were trying to

[7:47] go lower of their 7 something% total

[7:50] assessed value. There is a penalty at

[7:53] the state if the county reduces

[7:58] >> they are projecting they're going to

[7:59] lose over $600,000 worth of sales tax

[8:02] next year for the county sales tax. my

[8:04] understanding, I've been to a lot of the county budget stuff. Um, and if you

[8:11] don't capture at least what the

[8:14] percentage is that the county captured,

[8:15] you too as a city will lose part of your

[8:19] portion because you've gone lower than

[8:21] they have. So to maintain your same

[8:24] level, you have to capture at least the

[8:25] same amount.

[8:28] And if you go higher, you get a bigger

[8:31] percentage.

[8:34] So that's what I asked last meeting and

[8:36] that's what I'm still asking is what

[8:38] will our loss be by we're not capturing

[8:40] 4.2% or whatever they ended up choosing.

[8:43] It would have been 4.2 would have been

[8:45] the highest. Um if we're not capturing

[8:47] that we will have loss to our county

[8:49] sales tax income.

[8:52] >> I I don't I still am going to say that I

[8:55] don't think that

[8:58] budget but I will uh I will

[9:03] what we anticipate levying. I don't

[9:06] think that anything is affect

[9:10] I don't think you would I don't think

[9:11] it's going to

[9:16] I don't I don't honestly don't think

[9:17] that wheat

[9:23] we talked about impor

[9:34] I'm not disagreeing with you that it's

[9:36] going to have an impact. I just I still

[9:38] don't think it's significant enough that

[9:39] it's going to

[9:40] >> okay

[9:43] it's going to have such an impact that

[9:44] it would affect the budget.

[9:46] >> I just think it's important for council

[9:48] to understand what what the loss is.

[9:50] >> Is it is it something that is it are we talking about $50 here or we

[9:55] talking about $250,000?

[9:57] >> We don't

[9:59] >> that's

[9:59] >> but we're not talking about 50 either

[10:01] possibly. We don't know what we're

[10:03] talking about specifically.

[10:05] >> This is something that hasn't been

[10:06] discussed before.

[10:07] >> Range and does it affect whether we

[10:11] adopt it or not? Does it affect us?

[10:15] >> And that's just was the question that we

[10:17] asked last time because we wanted to be

[10:18] able to be informed

[10:20] to the best of our ability.

[10:22] >> I think it would be fair.

[10:28] Thank you.

[10:34] » I think we need to acknowledge that

[10:36] sales anything to do with sales tax is

[10:39] forecasting. Yes, I think it will not

[10:42] exact science.

[10:43] >> Correct.

[10:44] >> Like like the mil levy is or property

[10:46] tax.

[10:47] >> So if we can have a range of okay if

[10:50] everything goes south and they don't

[10:52] meet their range then it's this impact.

[10:55] But

[10:56] >> I guess I would go a step further and

[10:57] say I don't know what that how that

[10:59] would affect our decision either way.

[11:01] >> I don't either. And that's why I'm

[11:02] saying as far as um having a public

[11:06] hearing notice for our budget being

[11:09] published, that's a different and and I

[11:12] know we need to do that. But because we

[11:15] don't know the impact that we're talking

[11:17] about, will that influence our the

[11:20] potential for us to want to not stay at

[11:23] the revenue neutral rate and maybe stay

[11:25] at a flat mill rate? And if that is the

[11:29] case, then we do need to move forward

[11:31] tonight with actually publishing a

[11:33] revenue neutral rate hearing. We can't

[11:36] wait until the next meeting to publish a

[11:38] revenue neutral rate hearing if we the

[11:41] information isn't what we expect. So I'm

[11:44] just saying are do we want to hedge our

[11:46] bets and just to be on the safe side and

[11:50] do the revenue neutral rate hearing as

[11:52] well.

[12:11] The reduction in mill is

[12:17] We applied that

[12:21] anticipated

[12:23] county tax

[12:25] but the difference would be just under

[12:32] » that's what the full lo

[12:35] >> I think

[12:37] >> which is unlikely

[12:38] >> I don't think go down that I think that

[12:40] would

[12:47] What's going to happen is county is

[12:49] producing their amount, but I mean I I

[12:52] don't know what their full

[12:54] tax revenue is every year.

[13:00] I'll have that.

[13:02] But again, I think when I show you

[13:04] tonight, the $23,000 is not going

[13:10] to

[13:12] >> But I think that's the I think that's

[13:13] what we were looking for is okay. Worst

[13:16] case, this goes south cost 24,000 for

[13:20] me. That's not enough to offset going to

[13:24] >> Okay, that's still

[13:28] a revenue neutral

[13:30] nonrevenue.

[13:32] I can change I can change very quickly.

[13:38] » So the 24K

[13:41] that you just were referring to is that

[13:44] the that's the reduction in the mill

[13:47] rate or the the

[13:49] >> the mill values

[13:50] >> the it's the

[13:53] 4.14%

[13:57] lean.

[14:01] So you're saying that's how much is the

[14:02] difference between staying flat or going

[14:04] neutral. So

[14:05] >> So the number he just gave you has

[14:06] nothing to do with the county sales tax.

[14:08] That's just so going revenue neutral.

[14:11] >> If we're assuming that we're going to

[14:12] lose whatever

[14:16] county sales tax, we assume that we

[14:22] would produce taxing.

[14:28] also assuming that we reduce the bill

[14:31] that would be the maximum potential for

[14:36] county sales

[14:38] because you're not losing you're not

[14:39] losing population

[14:43] » correct

[14:55] » now like I said you would like to

[14:59] You would like me to just

[15:01] preload

[15:04] that I can easily

[15:08] produce a budget with both a revenue

[15:11] rate and a regular budget

[15:15] and it just be a matter

[15:20] difference

[15:25] back into budget.

[15:27] quick.

[15:37] It's just a different

[15:43] » That's up to council.

[15:45] >> Well, let's let's hear what we have to

[15:47] say tonight and then we can

[15:49] >> have more information to make our

[15:52] decision.

[15:53] >> Clearly our

[16:04] You stated that the reserve funds are

[16:06] healthy, but yet the last meeting we

[16:08] were told that the utility funds are

[16:10] low. So are you talking different

[16:13] reserve funds and not the utility

[16:15] reserve?

[16:16] >> We've made some adjustments. Let's

[16:19] presentation.

[16:20] >> Okay. Do we have a print out of this

[16:22] information?

[16:40] Thank you.

[16:43] >> Thank you.

[16:57] Yeah.

[17:00] >> And would you do a favor again and just

[17:01] make sure that mic's really close to you

[17:02] so we pick you up. Thank you.

[17:35] Okay. So, the first page we have up here

[17:37] is the budget certificate page. And this

[17:40] is potentially going to reflect

[17:42] everything tonight. uh includes the

[17:48] budget authority for each of your uh

[17:51] each of your operating funds. Um and

[17:55] essentially what what is that's the page

[17:58] you'll essentially sign after adoption

[18:01] and that'll essentially say that those

[18:03] are the limits to the amount of money

[18:05] that you can spend in 2027 from those

[18:07] funds.

[18:09] Um

[18:12] this page is reflects the uh you know

[18:15] what the state tells us they're going to

[18:16] or excuse me what we get allocated for a

[18:19] motor vehicle tax and how that is split

[18:21] up. So essentially in one of the input

[18:23] pages to the state forms uh you enter

[18:26] the amount that the state says they're

[18:28] going to allocate and if you had other

[18:30] funds that uh contained a portion of

[18:33] your mill levy it would split out a

[18:35] portion of that motor vehicle to those

[18:37] other funds. This is all your only mill

[18:39] fund is the general fund. It just puts

[18:40] everything there. So, but that's just

[18:41] the calculation page used for that. And

[18:43] the only reason I have all this together

[18:44] is because the county insists on every

[18:47] page in the budget uh form get submitted

[18:50] whether you guys it applies to you or

[18:51] not. So, you know, I I did leave out the

[18:54] library uh you know the library

[18:59] page and things like that because you

[19:01] guys don't have a library. But again,

[19:02] they're when I submit it to that when

[19:04] you submit it to them, all that needs to

[19:05] be included. Um, this is the schedule of

[19:08] transfers. These are all reflected in

[19:10] the actual budget pages that we'll get

[19:12] to. Uh, but they include all the

[19:14] transfers between funds,

[19:16] uh, budget for this year. Um

[19:20] the

[19:23] ones that I want you to take a look at

[19:25] that we'll get into are mostly coming

[19:27] out of the general fund because they

[19:29] general fund does have a you know pretty

[19:32] large um budget authority based on prior

[19:36] year performance current year

[19:37] performance and what we anticipate

[19:38] levying uh we will be able to increase

[19:41] some of the transfers um capital

[19:43] improvement

[19:45] is I'm increasing that to 200,000 uh

[19:48] just because I know that we uh you know

[19:52] you have a very good healthy uh balance

[19:54] in your capital improvement fund. But um

[19:57] again my and I've talked about it before

[19:58] my philosophy is that if you've got um

[20:01] you know

[20:03] funds that are you don't plan to use in

[20:06] the budget year, it's good to push them

[20:07] into some sort of reserve or capital

[20:09] fund so they can be used for projects in

[20:11] the future. Same thought there was with

[20:14] the highway fund is essentially pushing

[20:16] uh you know money for future highway

[20:18] projects or uh highway operations there.

[20:22] And then you know that again if those

[20:24] monies are not used they could always be

[20:26] transferred from the highway fund using

[20:28] their that fund's budget authority into

[20:30] uh capital equipment or or equipment

[20:32] reserve things like that.

[20:33] >> I have a question.

[20:34] >> Sure. So with the proposed capital

[20:36] improvement plan that we have been

[20:38] given, um

[20:41] what is the projection of what the

[20:44] yearly transfers need to be um to have a

[20:48] healthy amount of money for some of

[20:49] these projects that are on there? Uh

[20:51] >> so that we aren't bonding everything.

[20:53] >> The projects that are

[20:58] projects have for next year

[21:02] um which include

[21:04] facility needs assessment, the strategic

[21:07] plan,

[21:09] and

[21:13] they were supposed to come out of the

[21:14] capital improvement fund. You've got uh

[21:16] almost a million dollars in there right

[21:18] now. So, there's a million dollars in

[21:19] there right now that could be used to

[21:20] pay for that, but I know that there may

[21:23] be uh some costs for like the park

[21:25] project and things like that that

[21:26] haven't been spent yet. So, but I mean,

[21:28] I know the parks project so far has been

[21:30] about $400,000. I can get you a more

[21:32] accurate number for that. Um, but yeah,

[21:35] there's uh there's nothing in the

[21:38] immediate budget for

[21:41] um it would that would impact in 27 that

[21:46] would uh not be uh funded by the capital

[21:50] improvement fund balance. Now

[21:51] >> I I guess I'm asking a broader question.

[21:53] Thank you for that. But ask even a

[21:55] broader question that we're looking at

[21:57] five years. So, what is the forecast of

[22:00] what where we're going to need to be to

[22:02] keep healthy funds to be able to be

[22:05] looking at all of these projects that

[22:06] are listed on here?

[22:07] >> Well, it and it it's even broader than

[22:09] that because it's not just your capital

[22:11] improvement fund that's going to be

[22:13] paying for this. So it would yeah it

[22:14] would require um

[22:20] if I my recommendation is probably going

[22:22] to be when we get to the end of probably

[22:25] not this year but when we get to the end

[22:27] of 2027

[22:28] any additional fund balance that you

[22:31] have or excuse me any additional budget

[22:33] authority that you have uh that you

[22:36] could be even uh transferring additional

[22:39] funds into capital improvement I would

[22:41] probably recommend making like a year

[22:43] transfer of some of those funds into

[22:45] your capital improvement fund. Um I

[22:48] don't have a number for you right now on

[22:49] what it would take to fund uh just with

[22:52] you know with operation operating cash

[22:54] for all of these uh over the next couple

[22:56] years because again it looks like some

[22:58] of the bigger projects here are going to

[23:01] be

[23:02] >> um you know

[23:05] >> of a nature that it's probably not

[23:08] feasible to use operating funds to pay

[23:11] for them. And even stuff like this, you

[23:13] know, if you're looking at a like a

[23:15] Wampo funding type project,

[23:17] >> that too uh is going to differ that

[23:20] calculation. I would say though that

[23:22] through

[23:24] >> I would say that at least through 2029,

[23:27] not including

[23:30] probably

[23:33] Yeah. anything utility related I I mean

[23:35] if you're just relying on your utility

[23:37] funds no you don't have cash on hand for

[23:39] right

[23:40] >> that specifically

[23:41] >> um those are going to require and and

[23:43] the benefit of some of those type things

[23:45] you're eligible for the you know

[23:49] >> especially water and sear eligible for

[23:52] KDH uh you know lowcost loans for those

[23:56] but yeah we can I mean if we were going

[23:59] to build out a

[24:03] true capital improvement fund

[24:06] uh budget, we would have to make

[24:10] assumptions about things like, you know,

[24:12] grant funding and WMO funding and what

[24:15] portion of um

[24:17] any of any of the utility projects that

[24:20] you would want to ex build out, what

[24:22] portion of those would come from cash

[24:23] and what portion would you

[24:24] understandably be bonded?

[24:26] I just feel like that's important for

[24:28] the council to be looking at not just

[24:31] next year, but that we're looking ahead

[24:35] so that we have uh solid foundation in

[24:38] making decisions of where we're at

[24:40] financially, where we need to be. And

[24:41] like even the um

[24:45] >> the corridor improvements and the

[24:47] sidewalk, I mean, part of that, that's

[24:49] the 1% sales tax that we have.

[24:52] >> And it's like, where are we with that?

[24:54] Are we starting to pay that back? What's

[24:56] our balance left? When's the forecast of

[24:58] when that's going to be paid off? So,

[25:00] those are all questions I think that are

[25:01] important because that was the funding

[25:03] that was used for phase one to begin

[25:05] with. So, and I haven't seen anything I

[25:09] don't know if anyone else has seen

[25:10] anything that gives us an understanding

[25:12] of where we're at with the debt that was

[25:14] already occurred. Have we started

[25:16] paying? How much is paid off? When are

[25:17] we expected to pay it off with the 1%

[25:20] sales tax that's coming in that's

[25:21] supposed to pay for that?

[25:23] So it's a just a I would like that

[25:25] financial information so it gives us a

[25:27] better understanding.

[25:35] » Thank you.

[25:36] >> And then here is a statement of

[25:38] indebtedness. Um, this reflects all of

[25:41] your current outstanding geo bonds in

[25:43] the top section there. And then at the

[25:46] bottom section, your uh uh temp notes

[25:49] and the PBC bond that pays off actually

[25:52] this year. Looks like the final payment

[25:55] on that will be in November.

[25:58] Um, and so what you're talking about,

[26:01] uh, when you would be referring to, I'm

[26:06] assuming that's the 24 temp note is what

[26:08] was was it 24 temp note?

[26:11] >> Yeah, that number looks right. 965,000.

[26:14] >> Yeah, I I believe that's probably the

[26:15] one we're referring to. The pay for this

[26:19] improvements that we're going to be

[26:20] using sales tax to prepaid.

[26:24] >> That's current.

[26:26] >> Current note.

[26:26] >> Yes. So, we're not paying on that yet.

[26:29] And so, we don't have a forecast of when

[26:31] that's supposed to be paid off.

[26:32] >> They just built it into our forecast.

[26:41] » Yeah. Well, so the temp note is

[26:47] the current temp note, the 2026 temp

[26:48] note, I believe, is that that's being

[26:52] used to fund projects that have already

[26:53] been paid for. Is that what you're

[26:54] saying?

[26:56] No, I I just came on the inter

[26:58] intersection.

[27:00] >> The intersection project.

[27:03] >> because that's supposed to be repaid by

[27:04] the 1% sales tax.

[27:06] >> So I'm asking when are we paying for it?

[27:08] When's the forecast of it being paid

[27:10] off? Because that impacts another

[27:12] project that's on the CIP because that's

[27:14] where the money comes from.

[27:15] >> Look at that. We'll be

[27:17] >> I mean, so what what I'll what I'll do

[27:19] is I'll make a I'll I'll just do a

[27:21] specific schedule that shows uh what

[27:24] portion of all of these temp notes are

[27:26] going for because I'm assuming that 25

[27:28] is the development, right?

[27:33] Turtle Turtle Creek it's called

[27:35] >> is those

[27:40] >> Yeah. So that so that so the 25 t that's

[27:42] going to be repaid with special

[27:44] assessment

[27:44] >> is 26 Huffman and Casey's

[27:48] >> okay

[27:50] I guess another question I have just

[27:52] because we've heard of another city that

[27:54] got themselves into serious debt

[27:56] trouble.

[27:58] They went from 23 to $50 million in

[28:00] debt. I just want to make sure that we

[28:03] have plenty of debt information so that

[28:06] this council doesn't end up in a similar

[28:08] situation making those kinds of

[28:09] decisions and not realizing how much

[28:11] more in debt we're getting and what the

[28:13] city has to pay back debtwise and what

[28:16] has come through the city for projects

[28:18] and there's someone else paying back.

[28:21] >> Well, it it's not really part of the the

[28:23] um

[28:25] annual budget adoption. It's more it is

[28:28] more in it is more in line with the uh

[28:30] capital budgeting process. So, what I'll

[28:33] do is, like I said, I'll find out which

[28:35] one of these specifically is getting

[28:37] repaid with sales tax funds. And

[28:39] basically what we'll do is um show you

[28:42] where uh sales tax money has been uh how it's been allocated so far because

[28:49] basically it's going into

[28:50] >> it should be acrewing at this point

[28:52] because all of that money was supposed

[28:53] to be for the intersection project.

[28:55] >> Yes, that's what I mean. Where where

[28:57] it's been acrewing. So, it's going into

[28:58] the general fund. general funds

[29:00] transferring it to your capital

[29:02] improvement fund to your street fund and

[29:04] then when we get uh when that goes into

[29:07] permanent repayment will match make sure

[29:09] that that portion only for that project

[29:13] is specifically going into essentially

[29:15] fund balance from those funds that'll be

[29:17] making the debt payment. So, we can

[29:18] transfer it into capital improvement.

[29:20] You could pay for it out of uh you know

[29:22] your street fund. You can pay for it out

[29:25] of uh

[29:27] um

[29:30] I would I would probably recommend

[29:31] either the street fund or the or the

[29:33] bonded interest fund. And you can just

[29:35] it can be as simple as transferring it

[29:37] or if you um

[29:39] >> it doesn't have its own fund.

[29:41] >> No.

[29:41] >> To keep it separated because that's it

[29:43] was specifically to pay for that

[29:45] project. I mean it's it's accounted for

[29:48] separately.

[29:49] >> Yeah, it's accounted for it own.

[29:50] >> Yeah. So, shouldn't it have its own

[29:52] fund?

[29:53] >> It doesn't need its own fund. It it just

[29:54] gets accounted for in its own it's its

[29:56] own line item separately. So, we

[29:58] >> I just want to accountability for the

[30:00] people of Kai that they know that this

[30:02] money has been protected and that it is

[30:04] paying back the intersection.

[30:06] >> You know, it's been accounted for

[30:07] separately and we can we can track it

[30:09] back as far as we need to go with it.

[30:16] Okay, so this first page of the general

[30:18] fund shows all of the general fund

[30:19] revenue and this again assumes the you

[30:23] won't see it included here because the

[30:24] way the state form works they actually

[30:26] this state form is used to generate what

[30:28] the adorum tax will be. So we'll see it

[30:30] at the bottom of the next page here. But

[30:32] this is what our assumptions are for u

[30:36] all of our revenue sources going forward

[30:37] that everything above that sort of

[30:40] personal property line is numbers that

[30:43] are you know we get from the uh from the state or from the county

[30:49] depending on who it is. And then

[30:50] everything below that is your other

[30:52] revenue sources including uh county and

[30:54] city sales tax.

[30:56] uh state liquor tax

[30:59] assess uh state assess utilities is also

[31:02] again portion of the uh

[31:05] generated by the abalorum tax but it's

[31:08] uh it's not calculated the way that that

[31:13] regular business county gives us advice

[31:16] on how to account for that and then the

[31:20] bigger lines down at the bottom you'll

[31:21] see is the interest earnings those are

[31:22] considerably higher since we moved over

[31:26] to the uh um inrified uh fund through uh

[31:32] Enterprise Bank and again you just got

[31:36] fairly high uh

[31:39] you know balances there so it's

[31:40] obviously generating more interest.

[31:43] The next one here is

[31:44] >> mean that interest earnings where it's

[31:49] so it was 192 in 2005

[31:52] >> in 2025 and we're looking at 180 this

[31:55] year.

[31:56] >> I I it's just one of those things I

[31:58] don't I don't like over

[31:59] >> Okay.

[32:00] >> I don't like overbudgeting

[32:01] >> coming year

[32:02] >> revenue line items that I can't be

[32:03] completely reliable on. So

[32:04] >> Okay. Thank you. If if I had six months

[32:07] of if I had six months of collections to

[32:09] look at to tell me that it's probably

[32:11] you're probably going to end uh 26 with

[32:13] 200,000. If I saw that again this time

[32:15] next year, I would increase it. But I

[32:17] just for you know

[32:18] >> purposes uh being prudent, I didn't do

[32:21] that.

[32:22] >> And then here is the uh expenditure

[32:25] side. Uh we have expenditures here by um

[32:30] just the way they're categorized on the

[32:31] sheet in the in the detail pages you

[32:34] have. You'll see those all broken down

[32:35] by individual department in the general

[32:38] fund and then again by line item and by

[32:40] category.

[32:43] See how we get to that bottom number.

[32:45] For the purposes of uh budgeting, we put

[32:49] in that cash reserve line and uh so that

[32:52] 1.4 million65 that is essentially

[32:56] carryover fund balance from the prior

[32:57] year that we're budgeting as an

[32:59] expenditure. So you have the budget

[33:01] authority to spend all of it if you

[33:02] wanted to, which of course I nobody's

[33:04] going to recommend you do that. But also

[33:05] that getting it getting your expenditure

[33:08] amount up to that level is what

[33:09] determines your what your mill levy will

[33:12] be. So, for instance, if we were going

[33:14] to adopt or if if if you wanted to have

[33:17] a nonRNR uh if you wanted to have a

[33:21] nonRNR uh

[33:24] you wanted to have a hearing to exceed

[33:25] the RNR, then we would what we would do

[33:27] is we essentially would add back in the

[33:29] amount of property tax that we think uh

[33:32] that we that we estimate that the

[33:35] keeping a flat levy would generate. We

[33:37] add it into that $ 1.4 million number

[33:39] and that's how we would get it get it up

[33:41] to

[33:42] That would that's that's the specific

[33:44] number that we will change to adjust the

[33:46] middle

[33:54] and the very bottom bottom right corner

[33:57] there was 1.311

[34:00] uh million that's that is the uh amount

[34:03] of advalorum tax that the formulas in

[34:05] the state forms generate so it's equal

[34:07] to what you had last year

[34:09] >> question

[34:09] >> sure

[34:10] >> in the cash reserve 2027 column the

[34:13] 1.465.

[34:15] >> Yeah.

[34:15] >> Um

[34:18] what is the value

[34:21] left from the cash reserve and moving

[34:23] that over to balance

[34:27] » like so you're you're you're making a

[34:29] transfer.

[34:30] >> Nope.

[34:31] >> That like I said just a filler. That is

[34:33] a what what we're doing with that number

[34:36] is essentially we are budgeting as an

[34:39] expenditure your carryover fund balance and any

[34:43] difference between what you what we

[34:45] budget to spend and what we budget to uh

[34:48] receive. So, you know, the state defines

[34:51] a balanced budget as carryover fund

[34:54] balance plus revenue minus expenditure.

[34:57] And whatever's left over, if as long as

[34:59] it's zero, you're technically a balanced

[35:01] budget, even though you're spending down

[35:02] everything you had from the year before.

[35:04] For the purposes of establishing the

[35:06] mill levy, we budget that carryover fund

[35:09] balance as an expenditure. And that gets

[35:12] your mill levy to what it would take to

[35:15] complete essentially

[35:18] uh generate what to essentially generate

[35:22] that tax then spend down everything that

[35:25] we show we're spending down and get you

[35:26] to zero. Now, of course, we're not

[35:28] actually going to spend down to zero.

[35:30] We're going to uh essentially

[35:33] that we're not no there's no line item

[35:35] in your budget that's going to actually

[35:36] get charged to that 1.4 million. That's

[35:38] going to stay there. And again, that's

[35:41] what I'm talking about when we're

[35:42] talking about u uh you know, at the end

[35:46] of at the end of the budget year looking

[35:48] at where else can we transfer this money

[35:50] for things like capital projects that

[35:52] you talked about. Um so at at that point

[35:55] we would look, okay, what's our fund

[35:56] balance at now? We we you know we look

[35:59] at it during the the budget year as

[36:02] well. Um, and we'd say, you know, what

[36:04] can we additionally transfer out to

[36:06] capital to any of our other necessary

[36:09] funds where we would want to uh, you

[36:11] know, essentially pay for projects that

[36:14] we don't have to bond out.

[36:17] So that's that's the purpose of that

[36:18] line.

[36:19] >> So it's not it's not budget authority.

[36:22] >> Okay.

[36:22] >> It so it's um it's expected to be there

[36:25] at the end of the year.

[36:27] >> Tech technically it is legally budget

[36:30] authority, but we're not actually going

[36:31] to spend it. It would be you it would it

[36:34] would if you spent that you would spend

[36:35] your fund balance down to zero and risk

[36:38] at that point you would you would be

[36:40] risking a budget amendment or a budget

[36:42] violation.

[36:43] >> So in 2026 we're expecting to actually

[36:48] spend 200,000

[36:51] of our cash reserves.

[36:53] >> That no again that's it's the same thing

[36:55] there. We're we're putting it there.

[36:57] putting putting it there to essentially

[37:00] uh carry forward 200,000 additional more

[37:03] in carryover fund balance into the

[37:05] following year.

[37:13] It's it's essentially it's like a uh I

[37:16] again it it's only for the purposes of

[37:18] the state budget form that we're doing

[37:20] this on

[37:20] >> but we are giving budget authority to

[37:22] spend it and not hang on to it. We're

[37:25] well we're applying it in this form to

[37:28] uh your expenditures. It's it's not

[37:30] going to your budget authority is

[37:32] established for 26 last year with the

[37:34] budget. So this would just mean that

[37:36] instead of a uh you know

[37:40] because because you see there if you

[37:41] look at if you look in the middle column

[37:43] the bottom three lines you've got total

[37:45] expenditures uncovered cash balance

[37:47] December 31 and then 25 22x 27 budget

[37:50] authority. So the middle one that's 26

[37:52] budget authority. We're essentially

[37:54] using that to almost bring your uh uh

[37:59] amount of your uh expenditures almost up

[38:02] to what the budget authority is. And

[38:05] we're just putting it in there as an

[38:06] expenditure to uh essentially not spend

[38:10] it and then carry it forward in fund

[38:11] balance.

[38:15] I can I can take that out if you want.

[38:17] is just going to push it into the uh

[38:19] beginning fund balance line for 2027 and

[38:23] push everything up by $200,000.

[38:26] Um, but you know, this gives you, you

[38:29] know, I mean, so the thing that you're

[38:31] always worried about when you're getting

[38:32] into fourth quarter is, you know, do we

[38:35] have budget authority to cover

[38:36] everything we need to pay for? And you

[38:38] have ample budget authority in general

[38:40] fund to do so. But the kind of the

[38:42] purpose of that cash reserve line is if

[38:44] you are not going to be spending all of

[38:46] your budget authority,

[38:48] you know, you can either show it as a

[38:51] budget adjustment for the following year

[38:53] or not budget adjustment, you can show

[38:54] it as a carryover fund balance for the

[38:56] following year in again this is

[38:58] specifically for the uh budgeting

[39:01] process or you can put it in as an

[39:02] expenditure like that and then it'll

[39:04] just you know your your actual year end

[39:07] will look better than the budget year

[39:09] end.

[39:10] that will actually change.

[39:20] Are there any more questions?

[39:25] And then this uh the next page is the you know how the uh funds are broken

[39:31] down into uh departments or and actually

[39:35] in this case it's not actually

[39:36] departments it's sort of like cost

[39:38] centers that we group together but again

[39:40] if you want the detail it's in those

[39:42] other pages that Matt printed out for

[39:44] you.

[39:48] uh bond and interest fund uh set up

[39:50] similarly. If you see here that cash

[39:52] reserve uh line is 2.3 million. And

[39:57] again, the only reason the only way this

[39:59] even makes this even works out is to

[40:02] because we have built in a $ 1.9 million

[40:05] bond proceeds line item in your uh on

[40:08] the revenue side. And so what that is

[40:10] essentially is what would the cost be to

[40:12] retire your temp notes if you had to do

[40:14] it in one year. And so you I'm giving

[40:16] you a revenue sides calculation for what

[40:19] those would cost. And then on the

[40:20] reverse side, I'm giving you the budget

[40:21] of the work to do it if you had to

[40:22] retire those dividends, the full amount

[40:25] of them.

[40:27] This way you're not running into timing

[40:29] issues when you do go to retire those

[40:35] uh street fund here. Um

[40:39] big thing here you look at is they've

[40:41] got a fairly good carryover as well in

[40:44] that uh cash reserve line about $450,000

[40:48] and again you know it's one of the

[40:50] reasons I wanted to I want to start

[40:52] increasing the transfer into here is so

[40:55] uh you know whether you decide to pay

[40:57] for those

[41:00] >> using those using those uh sales tax

[41:02] dollars whether you decide to pay for um

[41:06] uh you know repayment of that street

[41:07] project out of here or uh out of uh you

[41:12] know capital improvement or excuse me

[41:14] out bonded interest. This is probably

[41:16] this fund probably makes the most sense

[41:18] to make those transfers from. So when we

[41:19] do get what the debt service on that's

[41:21] going to be and we start paying it back,

[41:23] we'll make sure that we're matching

[41:24] whatever is flowing into here for that

[41:26] payment to what the debt payment will

[41:28] be.

[41:30] >> So since the so for instance the 2026 or

[41:35] 2024 temp note will have to be it

[41:39] expires this year. So we'll have to

[41:41] change it into a permanent bond.

[41:44] Yes.

[41:44] >> So that 42,000 is going to come out of C

[41:48] the this fund

[41:53] that's basically the sales tax and the

[41:56] 965,000

[41:58] is going to come out of the sales

[42:02] proceeds from when we sell the permanent

[42:04] bond.

[42:05] >> Yeah. So it what that which which page

[42:09] are you on? I'm sorry. Well, I'm

[42:10] comparing what you have on page nine to

[42:14] what you have on page four.

[42:16] >> What What are those p I don't have page

[42:17] numbers on my slides. I'm sorry.

[42:20] >> Um the one is the state statement of

[42:22] indebtedness and then this current

[42:24] slide. So on the statement of

[42:27] indebtedness,

[42:28] so the Kichi Road in Oliver, well the

[42:31] temp like a temp note 2024, the Kichi

[42:33] Road and Oliver is basically what that

[42:35] is. Since it expires this year, that

[42:38] 42,219,

[42:40] we will definitely be paying the 965 is

[42:43] actually coming out of will be paid by

[42:46] the sale of that bond from a temporary

[42:48] note to a to a full bond.

[42:51] >> So the

[42:52] >> is that how you're looking at that?

[42:53] >> No, the It'll be it'll 28 is when you'll

[42:56] start repaying that temp note. Will you

[42:58] be you'll start paying the permanent

[43:00] bond that that temp note will retire.

[43:02] >> Yes.

[43:03] >> But that that that GO bond will retire

[43:05] that temp note and you'll be repaying

[43:06] that uh bond in 20 beginning in 2028.

[43:09] >> And at that point,

[43:11] >> huh?

[43:11] >> But we have to pay the interest.

[43:16] » So I'm there's interest listed.

[43:18] >> There's the So the 42,000 that's what

[43:20] I'm talking about. So the 42,219 is

[43:23] really what will come out of our is

[43:26] budgeted for general fund to pay for

[43:28] this year.

[43:28] >> I believe it's

[43:31] >> I believe I believe it's included in the

[43:33] temp note the it's included in the temp

[43:35] note finance. So it'll get paid out of

[43:36] the whichever fund the project is

[43:38] located in.

[43:39] >> Okay.

[43:42] the the again I I can't tell you what

[43:44] that specific note was for so I can't

[43:46] tell you exactly how it's going to be

[43:47] repaid but it the the typically the uh

[43:52] you know they capitalize the interest in

[43:54] temp note so it's you borrow the amount

[43:56] that you're going to have to pay in temp

[43:57] note interest and then when you retire

[43:59] that you know they'll do a calculation

[44:01] based on how much of the notes that you

[44:03] actually use and you know which how much

[44:05] of it can be paid paid back and so then

[44:06] they'll determine what your permanent

[44:09] bond is going to be and then the

[44:10] interest on that will be paid as part of

[44:12] the regular debt service and that is it.

[44:15] So whichever one of these is referring

[44:16] to the street project. So when they when

[44:18] they issue that that permanent bond um

[44:21] that is the comp the both the interest

[44:25] payment and the principal payment of

[44:26] that is going to be paid for with that

[44:28] sales tax money and that if that is

[44:32] included in that 24 note then that will

[44:34] begin repayment in 2028.

[44:36] So that'll and you know that's just part

[44:38] of the timing of that project is make

[44:40] sure that we have uh that cash reserve

[44:42] and as you can see you do have

[44:43] sufficient cash on hand especially in

[44:46] general fund and in your bond and

[44:47] interest fund to make

[44:50] uh you know those payments. It's just

[44:52] that we need to make sure that what

[44:53] whatever specific uh fund you're going

[44:56] to be using for those payments, we have

[44:58] a we tie the uh you know sales tax revenue to

[45:04] that specific payment.

[45:08] But again, that that shouldn't be that

[45:10] shouldn't impact until 2020 9 because

[45:13] the principal repayment on the 24 temp

[45:17] note is September of uh 2027.

[45:28] » Thank you.

[45:29] >> Yeah.

[45:40] So the

[45:43] water revenue side here uh you can see

[45:46] uh where we're projecting

[45:49] uh this would be water and uh excuse me

[45:51] water and uh

[45:54] water revenue and expenditure in the

[45:56] same same uh

[45:58] page here. You'll like I said you've got

[46:00] the line items there if you want to go

[46:02] over those. I have those as well. on the

[46:03] computer if we want to look into them.

[46:05] Um,

[46:09] uh, cash reserve here is not quite as

[46:12] much. It's only about $50,000.

[46:14] Um, but we were able to get some, uh,

[46:19] budget savings here by um, essentially

[46:24] dialing in the personnel splits for

[46:26] public works. There was a portion of

[46:28] them that were uh, uh, to be paid from

[46:35] both this and the street fund and we we

[46:37] returned to that portion. The way the way they're split is pretty uh

[46:43] complicated but going forward they'll be

[46:45] split appropriately. So

[46:46] >> So what is that appropriate split? I

[46:49] mean what is the new split if we're ch

[46:50] because I'm sorry I kind

[46:52] >> pull the split schedule but what we

[46:54] found is that nothing was being pulled

[46:56] from

[46:58] >> Yeah. But there it was only like a it

[46:59] was only like a portion of of one FTE.

[47:02] It wasn't even it wasn't even like a

[47:03] full half FTE.

[47:04] >> It was just a portion of one. And so

[47:06] essentially it was it was

[47:08] >> I don't know I don't I can't I don't

[47:10] know when it happened. I know there was

[47:11] no budget or there was no uh expenditure

[47:14] from that line in street last year, but

[47:16] you know we we're pushing it back into

[47:18] there now. So it'll be it'll be

[47:19] allocated there going forward.

[47:23] >> Yeah. I'd like to know what the what the

[47:25] splits were.

[47:26] >> Yeah. It's and honestly at at some point

[47:29] uh I I've you know I think part of the

[47:31] reason Matt wants to uh look at not only

[47:34] you know the facilities uh need study

[47:37] but again something like that could kind

[47:39] of better guide how those positions

[47:42] should be split um you know obviously

[47:44] with uh

[47:46] the you know look just looking at the

[47:48] budget of your utilities and the impact

[47:52] that you know public works has for them.

[47:55] Uh it's probably not outside of uh it's

[47:58] probably a good idea at some point soon

[48:00] to go and you know make sure that

[48:02] >> the the way they're split currently and you know not just how they're split

[48:06] but how they're you know what their

[48:07] specific jobs entail are better tied to

[48:11] uh

[48:12] >> the resources in your uh utility funds.

[48:14] >> Well and I understand that and I know

[48:16] that we have um over the years made

[48:19] changes in different directions. I just

[48:21] wanted to know what

[48:22] >> Yeah. what the what those changes are.

[48:25] >> Yeah, we can get that.

[48:41] » Uh again, gas utility here um see

[48:45] increase revenue uh both this year and

[48:49] anticipate next year as well.

[48:52] uh personnel numbers here still you know

[48:55] personnel and commodities tend to be

[48:57] your highest uh

[49:00] highest expenditures. Um

[49:04] we uh you did have a gas project this

[49:07] year that would be uh paid for out of

[49:10] the capital improvement fund. So um it

[49:13] doesn't hit the actual operating

[49:14] revenue. If it did it would have you

[49:16] know it was it was a large project so it

[49:18] would have been under budget. that's why

[49:19] it's getting paid for a capital

[49:20] improvement. But again, even with even

[49:22] with uh you know your cost increases,

[49:25] we're still putting a cash reserve of

[49:27] 443,000

[49:29] going forward for next year. So that's

[49:32] good, which basically just means you can

[49:33] anticipate that much of a carryover fund

[49:35] balance, which is, you know,und almost

[49:38] 130,000 more than the uh we're

[49:41] anticipating for the beginning of the

[49:42] year.

[49:45] Sewer, as you can see, is a much tighter

[49:47] budget. Uh it's been declining in

[49:51] uh carryover fund balance for for at

[49:53] least two years now. Um the the funny

[49:56] thing here is though is you've got

[49:57] almost a half a million dollars in sewer

[49:59] reserves. So it's it's it's the reserve

[50:01] fund with with the largest balance, but

[50:02] on the operating side it's

[50:04] >> it's uh you know expenditures as you can

[50:07] see typically for personnel and

[50:08] commodities are driving that. So,

[50:13] um I think Matt has mentioned that

[50:15] there's probably a need for a

[50:18] reassessment of sewer rates and

[50:19] hopefully you can look into that for

[50:24] following year. This budget anticipated

[50:26] a minimum a

[50:28] 4 and a.5% increase for sewer rates.

[50:42] Uh the last couple here are I don't like

[50:45] calling them pass through funds because

[50:47] they they're not quite that simplistic

[50:49] but you know they're much smaller

[50:51] operating funds uh solid waste recycling

[50:53] and the storm water fund.

[50:56] So

[50:58] still they, you know, uh it's not a

[51:01] great fund balance, but percentage wise

[51:03] it's not bad for fund of this size. And

[51:07] we still even have a uh

[51:10] pardon me, we still have a cash reserve

[51:11] here 22,000 going into 27 going at the

[51:14] end of 27. So that's positive.

[51:18] Storm water similarly a very healthy

[51:22] cash reserve actually you know almost

[51:24] 100% of its anticipated expenditure. So,

[51:27] or excuse me, not 100% of its carryover,

[51:30] almost 100% of it carryover

[51:33] from the prior year. So, it's still

[51:35] operating in a good position. And I did

[51:37] actually build in the $20,000 and

[51:39] $25,000 as project potential project

[51:42] costs for 26 27. Again, you're probably

[51:45] not going to spend them and so they'll

[51:46] just carry forward as fund balance.

[51:56] uh the land bank that truly is just a

[51:58] you know we budgeted we budget an

[52:00] expenditure for the full amount of the

[52:02] carryover fund balance and that's all we

[52:04] do with that.

[52:05] >> Okay.

[52:09] » Is um on the storm water

[52:12] >> is that more than just

[52:16] the one employee is that it's do the

[52:19] public works feed into that one as well?

[52:21] We're taking a little bit of public.

[52:23] >> Okay.

[52:25] >> Because they do.

[52:26] >> Well, that's I just was asking. I mean,

[52:29] >> okay. Thank you.

[52:36] » And then the opioid settlement fund. Uh

[52:39] Scott still has some uh money left in

[52:41] it. So, I just budget the full the full

[52:44] amount to come out in uh 2027. It

[52:48] doesn't get spent. It can stay there. It

[52:49] just carried forward.

[52:57] And then special parks and recck fund

[52:59] receives uh I think it's half the state

[53:01] liquor uh

[53:04] >> distribution

[53:06] and then you know budgeted I just budget

[53:09] again budgeted to carry on fund balance

[53:12] as an expenditure as a reserve or I

[53:14] actually put in a commodities line in

[53:15] case there's you know parks small small

[53:19] scale park improvement you'd like that

[53:20] doesn't require an entire uh big capital

[53:24] project. See those big capital projects,

[53:28] you like to have them in their own

[53:29] either project fund or run through the

[53:31] capital improvement fund just because

[53:32] there's so many costs involved with it,

[53:34] engineering, you know, potential fees

[53:37] for

[53:39] uh you know design and things like that.

[53:41] So, but smaller projects like you know

[53:43] if you're going to do a you know buy a amenity that staff can install

[53:49] things like that on a smaller scale it's

[53:51] good to use them here and use that use

[53:53] that money. Um, at some point I would

[53:56] even consider doing a regular transfer

[53:59] of uh surplus general fund revenue in

[54:02] here just to build that up to where you

[54:04] know you can do smaller projects every

[54:06] year but bank half of what your transfer

[54:07] would be just so after two or three

[54:09] years you have enough to do a not a big

[54:12] project but another you know significant

[54:14] addition amenity adding to your park

[54:17] system and it didn't have to be just you

[54:20] know the you know like equipments like

[54:21] that. You could also do a uh

[54:25] something like a you know re redo relaying sod on

[54:31] a not sod but you know relaying mulch on

[54:34] a trail or something like that that is

[54:35] more than just an every year thing you

[54:38] do but not quite the scale of a large

[54:40] capital project.

[54:43] So on the capital improvement budget that

[54:48] we saw last time, we had the

[54:49] approximately two mills going to the

[54:51] park improvement program. Is that in

[54:55] just the regular park?

[54:56] >> It it's going into

[54:57] >> Where does that go?

[54:58] >> It's going into the capital improvement

[54:59] fund.

[54:59] >> It's going to capital improvement fund.

[55:01] Thank you.

[55:07] And then for the budget submission, they

[55:09] require you to submit a uh 2025 actual

[55:13] expenditure revenue for your

[55:15] non-budgeted funds. So beginning with

[55:18] capital improvement,

[55:19] uh you see there that total receipts at

[55:21] 177300. That was essentially two mills

[55:24] plus a, you know, $100,000 catchup from

[55:27] the prior year for the park project.

[55:30] But that was the basis for that. Um the

[55:35] equipment reserve you see transfers from

[55:37] uh the various funds go in there.

[55:41] Then uh you know not much not much

[55:45] expenditure out of equipment reserve

[55:47] last year. Uh and that that's something

[55:50] else we can go into is uh I'll start

[55:53] making I'll start making that part of

[55:54] the regular monthly report is just

[55:57] essentially what the cash balances for

[55:59] these funds look like. So, you know, you

[56:02] have a more up-to-date regular eye on

[56:05] how they're performing that can be used

[56:07] for capital stuff. Uh, water reserve,

[56:10] fairly low fund balance there. Uh, gas

[56:14] reserve, not bad, but again, like I said

[56:16] earlier, sewer reserve,

[56:18] the worst performing utility fund, but

[56:20] it does have the largest reserve there.

[56:22] But that makes sense because sewer sewer

[56:24] replacement stuff is expensive. So, it's not a bad thing to have that that

[56:28] type of fund balance. Council,

[56:39] any further discussion or questions from

[56:41] Melan?

[56:55] » Yep.

[57:00] the way I'm thinking, but if you guys

[57:04] want to keep it open, we can.

[57:09] >> So, discussion on what you want to do

[57:11] about revenue neutral rate hearing.

[57:13] >> Well, can we discuss that in the regular

[57:15] meeting since that's where since that's

[57:17] where that'll have to happen and we only

[57:18] have a couple minutes left. I do have a

[57:20] question on the a couple questions on

[57:22] the capital improvement um plan

[57:25] schedule. So last meeting the police

[57:29] vehicle was slated for 2028 and I notice

[57:33] on this one it's 2027. I thought we had

[57:36] put we had said we were going to put it

[57:38] off.

[57:39] >> Yeah. So we just we just made that

[57:42] update this week. Chief, when we met, we

[57:45] all met this week.

[57:49] Chief was concerned

[57:51] downscuring

[58:11] the budget retreat. was not a priority

[58:14] from the council. So, I don't know how

[58:17] council wants to resolve that.

[58:20] Well,

[58:22] I mean, because we also had it where we

[58:24] didn't have the we didn't have the

[58:27] previous vehicle that was replaced after

[58:29] the accident. Correct. That was not in

[58:31] the capital improvement budget,

[58:33] >> but we still did it.

[58:39] >> We had a portion we had to pay.

[58:45] But it was

[58:48] >> No. Okay. I I I'll So right now we don't

[58:53] have a plan to replace it, but we're

[58:55] going to budget it. Is Is that going to

[58:57] be an ongoing that we just keep a car in

[58:59] the budget?

[59:00] >> Well, a lot of that depends on our

[59:18] Chief wants to make sure

[59:41] I have more discussion on CIP, but I'm

[59:43] going to bring it up during council

[59:45] meeting.

[59:46] >> Okay.

[59:48] >> So, as far as Matt Lawn, do we have

[59:50] anything else for Matt?

[59:51] >> No.

[59:52] >> Okay. Thank you so much, Matt.

[59:53] >> Thank you, Matt. So, if you guys do

[59:55] decide to do the RNR or have the RNR

[59:58] hearing and, you know, exceed the RNR

[1:00:00] rate, that it is a, like I said, it is a

[1:00:02] simple calculation. I can have it uh,

[1:00:05] you know, I can have it to Matt as soon

[1:00:06] as he notifies me of what it'll be and

[1:00:09] you'll be able to do whatever you want.

[1:00:13] >> Thank you, Matt. I appreciate that.

[1:00:14] >> Thank you.

[1:00:15] >> Um, I would entertain a motion to

[1:00:18] adjurnn.

[1:00:21] If there's no further discussion,

[1:00:22] >> I move that we adjourn.

[1:00:24] >> Second.

[1:00:24] >> Motion by council member Morland, second

[1:00:26] by council member Hedstrom. All in

[1:00:29] favor? I

[1:00:30] >> I uh second question. Are you guys ready

[1:00:33] to turn around and start again or do you

[1:00:34] want a fivem minute break?

[1:00:35] >> Five minute break. Yeah.

[1:00:36] >> Okay. We will return at 700. Oh, let me

[1:00:39] see what time it is on my actual phone.

[1:00:41] We We'll return at 7:05 and get started.

[1:00:45] And I just want to let everybody know

[1:00:47] that if you are signing up to talk,

[1:00:49] please make sure you fill out your form

[1:00:51] and bring it up to Debbie so that she

[1:00:53] can have those all ready to go. Thank

[1:00:55] you.

[1:02:17] That's right.

[1:02:27] I figured

[1:02:50] something

[1:10:48] Okay.

[1:10:50] Good evening and welcome to the Kichai

[1:10:52] city council meeting. It is Thursday,

[1:10:55] August 27, 2026 and the time is now 710.

[1:11:00] Debbie, if you'll please call roll.

[1:11:04] >> Here.

[1:11:05] here

[1:11:07] >> this evening. I would like to welcome

[1:11:08] Pastor Doug Woodan to lead the

[1:11:10] invocation which will be followed by the

[1:11:12] pledge. If you would all please rise.

[1:11:21] » Father, thank you so much for the

[1:11:23] opportunity we have to live in a free

[1:11:25] society where we can vote and share our

[1:11:28] concerns and and our goals and dreams

[1:11:31] and visions. I pray for the the council

[1:11:34] tonight and the staff that you would

[1:11:36] give them wisdom of Solomon, but also

[1:11:39] the uh the peace of Christ and also what

[1:11:42] Paul said that we uh think not of our

[1:11:44] own interest but interest of others. And

[1:11:47] thank you for this community and may we

[1:11:49] all come together and to make us

[1:11:52] stronger and better. And we give you all

[1:11:54] the praise and glory in Jesus name we

[1:11:56] pray. And everyone says

[1:11:57] >> amen.

[1:12:00] I pledge algiance to the flag of the

[1:12:03] United States of America and to the

[1:12:06] republic for which it stands. One nation

[1:12:10] under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[1:12:14] justice for all.

[1:12:19] » Was it hard to sit down?

[1:12:22] >> Okay, we'll move on to approval agenda.

[1:12:24] Uh, council, I would I requested this

[1:12:28] morning. It didn't quite happen. Um, in

[1:12:30] under new business, I would like water

[1:12:32] discussion moved to A, please. And PEC

[1:12:34] would then become B.

[1:12:40] And the reason I'm doing that is I'm

[1:12:42] changing public comment tonight. Um, in

[1:12:44] public comment, it will be nonwater bill

[1:12:48] in our regular public comment. And the

[1:12:51] other public comment will become part of

[1:12:53] the water discussion. I want it all to

[1:12:56] happen all at the same time. That's for

[1:12:58] the change.

[1:13:00] And then I'm going to add CIP to the

[1:13:02] discussion time.

[1:13:06] Does council have anything else they

[1:13:07] would like to add or change?

[1:13:09] >> Do we have an executive session?

[1:13:10] >> I don't. Does anyone else have executive

[1:13:12] session? Okay. So, we will scratch 11.

[1:13:17] I move that we approve the agenda with

[1:13:19] changing item A on new business to item

[1:13:22] B, changing item B to A, and including

[1:13:26] public comment as a part of the water

[1:13:28] discussion, adding CIP

[1:13:31] under council reports, discussion and

[1:13:34] requests and striking item 11.

[1:13:38] >> Second motion by council member Morland,

[1:13:41] second by council member Baldridge. All

[1:13:42] in favor? I

[1:13:44] >> I

[1:13:46] motion passes 300.

[1:13:49] Moving on to community. Oh, I'm sorry.

[1:13:52] Approval of consent agenda. Is there

[1:13:55] anything you want that pulled out or are

[1:13:57] you ready to just approve the consent

[1:13:59] agenda?

[1:14:00] >> Okay. I would just to entertain a

[1:14:02] motion.

[1:14:03] >> I move we approve the consent agenda as

[1:14:06] presented.

[1:14:07] >> Second.

[1:14:08] >> Motion by council member Headstrom.

[1:14:10] Second by council member Balder. All in

[1:14:12] favor? I

[1:14:13] >> motion passes 300.

[1:14:16] Moving on to communication. Are there

[1:14:18] any Kichi civic groups or committees

[1:14:20] that are here tonight to speak?

[1:14:23] >> I see none.

[1:14:25] Move on to community announcements. Uh

[1:14:28] the only thing I'm going to announce

[1:14:29] tonight that I have is that this is the

[1:14:31] last weekend for the always Paty Klein

[1:14:34] over at the Kai Playhouse. Does anyone

[1:14:37] else have any announcements for this

[1:14:40] evening? I think we're we still have our

[1:14:42] farmers market going on.

[1:14:44] >> We do.

[1:14:44] >> And on Thursdays from 4:00 to 6:30 and

[1:14:49] um every Tuesday at the Methodist

[1:14:51] church, the community dinner.

[1:14:54] >> Those are the places to be during the

[1:14:55] week. Uh city minister Jensen, anything

[1:14:58] from the city? Okay, we will move on.

[1:15:02] Does anyone have any previous public

[1:15:04] comments that they would like to address

[1:15:05] at this time?

[1:15:07] Okay, Debbie, do we have any nonwater

[1:15:11] public comments tonight?

[1:15:17] » Miss Burkalter, welcome. Please state

[1:15:20] your name and address and you'll have

[1:15:21] five minutes.

[1:15:24] BK Burkalter 427 Sou Court Kchi Kansas

[1:15:28] 67067

[1:15:31] and I am first of all I want to say to

[1:15:34] the audience here I'm glad to see Kchai

[1:15:37] because empty seats make decisions. I'm

[1:15:40] really glad to see everyone here. As I

[1:15:43] stated, empty seats will make decisions.

[1:15:46] And so, my first opportunity that I

[1:15:48] would like to talk about is the um

[1:15:52] problem that I saw with our convenience

[1:15:54] store being broken into. I really had a

[1:15:56] concern about that. I think that's the

[1:15:58] second time if I'm not mistaken, and I

[1:16:02] almost thought three times over the 40

[1:16:04] years that I've been here, but I do know

[1:16:06] it has been too. And I do want to make

[1:16:08] sure that uh there is a concern about

[1:16:11] that especially with our police

[1:16:13] department in full to whatever standards

[1:16:16] they're in. Please please make sure it's

[1:16:18] the only convenient and gas store that

[1:16:21] we have. And so my heart was broken to

[1:16:24] know that it was broken into. I also

[1:16:26] have a concern about not having an open

[1:16:29] forum, an opportunity for our community

[1:16:31] to speak uh in reference to the park or

[1:16:35] any other kind of activities in front of

[1:16:38] the council. I know we might have an

[1:16:40] opportunity to speak with our mayor at

[1:16:42] some given time uh when permitted. But

[1:16:45] we would also like to have the

[1:16:46] opportunity or some type of free flowing

[1:16:49] uh uh form that we can speak to directly

[1:16:53] to you that we can get answers from you.

[1:16:55] I don't know if that's ever permittable

[1:16:58] uh besides this five minutes that you

[1:17:00] may or may not address. I don't know for

[1:17:02] sure, but I really would like to see

[1:17:04] something like that. And then lastly, I

[1:17:06] also was at the meeting that we had last

[1:17:08] month and this meeting this uh remark is

[1:17:11] in remarks to the fact that if we get

[1:17:15] our bills, a lot of people are not

[1:17:17] reading them. And I want to say that my

[1:17:19] husband was not quite happy about that

[1:17:21] because he does read his bills. We are

[1:17:23] not stopping out here to read the uh

[1:17:26] sign that we have outside. It's really

[1:17:28] nice. I love the fact that we've got

[1:17:30] news that as we pass by quickly, but I

[1:17:33] would also like the fact that if we have

[1:17:35] any information that it can be generated

[1:17:38] through our bills. Uh we are families

[1:17:40] that read our bills. We have 2400 people

[1:17:43] here in Keith Chai. And I'm sure that

[1:17:45] there are other residents here that

[1:17:47] would love to have a stamp spent on them

[1:17:50] and a one-page copy or some sort placed

[1:17:53] in the mail so that they can find out

[1:17:55] what's going on in the city of Kchi.

[1:17:58] Those are my main priorities that I

[1:18:00] wanted to share with you and thank you

[1:18:02] for the opportunity.

[1:18:03] >> Thank you, Miss B. Council, do you have

[1:18:05] any interaction that you would like to

[1:18:06] have with Miss B?

[1:18:09] >> Any response? Just actually, Miss B,

[1:18:12] were you talking about the park being

[1:18:14] able to present things from the park

[1:18:15] board to the council?

[1:18:29] » Okay.

[1:18:42] I I think we under communications we

[1:18:45] have each city groups and committees and

[1:18:47] that's kind of where I would expect that

[1:18:50] to have those kind of updates.

[1:18:56] » I I I agree. I think what you're

[1:18:58] actually saying is so I normally host

[1:19:01] let's talk about a kichi from 6:00 to

[1:19:03] 6:45 prior to a council meeting. Is that

[1:19:06] what you're talking about? Or you can

[1:19:07] just come in and talk. So

[1:19:10] >> So two council members can attend as

[1:19:12] well. So the mayor and up to two council

[1:19:14] members can attend. I if we don't have a

[1:19:17] budget workshop or some kind of a

[1:19:18] specialty workshop, which isn't usually

[1:19:20] the case, I'm normally here at 6:00

[1:19:23] prior to a council meeting and it's for

[1:19:26] 45 minutes. Anyone can come in. The

[1:19:29] council is invited to come. Two members

[1:19:31] can attend as well. So, it is an

[1:19:34] opportunity. Before budget season, I did

[1:19:36] have a regular group of people that were

[1:19:38] coming in to have conversation. I think

[1:19:40] that's what you're talking about. And

[1:19:42] then quarterly I offer um community

[1:19:44] conversation which is on a Saturday

[1:19:47] morning from 8 to 10 in the community

[1:19:49] room. Um the next one is October 24th

[1:19:53] from 8 to 10:00 a.m. Um again the mayor

[1:19:56] and up to two council members um are

[1:19:59] able to attend and that is a time for

[1:20:01] the community to come in and talk about

[1:20:04] anything um outside of the council

[1:20:06] meetings. So, I'm trying to make more

[1:20:08] opportunities where we can just have

[1:20:11] conversation um not necessarily inside a

[1:20:14] council meeting. Is that what you were

[1:20:15] trying to get to? Okay.

[1:20:18] You're welcome. Um and I think it does

[1:20:21] bring back what I tried to say at the

[1:20:22] last meeting. Um I realize that there's

[1:20:26] a lot of people that don't read their

[1:20:27] utility bills and so it feels like the

[1:20:28] announcements being included it's like

[1:20:30] what's the point? But I have heard from

[1:20:33] people that are like, why don't we get

[1:20:35] announcements in our utility bill

[1:20:36] anymore? So, I think there are people

[1:20:38] that are reading them and that will be

[1:20:40] something for the council um to discuss

[1:20:42] whether tonight or a later time to

[1:20:44] determine whether um we would like those

[1:20:47] announcements readded back into the

[1:20:49] utility bill.

[1:20:52] So, let's see, what was the other thing?

[1:20:53] Oh, the convenience store. Um I I didn't

[1:20:58] really hear any more updates from that.

[1:20:59] Do we have any other updates that came

[1:21:01] out of that? So, there's been no issues

[1:21:03] since and Key Police Department, thank

[1:21:06] you for all that you do and

[1:21:09] um yeah, and I will just keep you

[1:21:12] updated if we hear anything going on. I

[1:21:15] haven't heard of anything happening

[1:21:16] since then. So, you're welcome.

[1:21:20] Is there any other public comments for

[1:21:23] general public comment? Okay, I'm going

[1:21:25] to go ahead and pl close the public

[1:21:27] comment section.

[1:21:29] And we will move on to unfinished

[1:21:32] business which is a park update. City

[1:21:34] administrator Jensby

[1:21:36] >> mayor and council I don't have any

[1:21:37] updates since the last meeting I would

[1:21:40] add is got a call from leaders.

[1:21:56] » I I do have a question on the park. Um,

[1:21:59] have core samples been taken for the

[1:22:00] soil?

[1:22:01] >> They have not. We're waiting on

[1:22:04] contract time.

[1:22:10] » Okay.

[1:22:11] >> Is there a reason why there's been such

[1:22:13] a long delay from May until now? We

[1:22:16] still don't have any core sampling done.

[1:22:17] >> No, they had to develop

[1:22:22] review.

[1:22:33] Council, any other questions on the park

[1:22:35] or the playground? It's really after a

[1:22:36] playground update.

[1:22:37] >> What was the cost of that contract?

[1:22:42] » I think

[1:22:45] you

[1:22:51] anything else council?

[1:22:53] Oh, okay. We will move on to new

[1:22:56] business. First up is the water bill

[1:22:58] discussion. City administrator Jensby.

[1:23:01] >> Mayor, if you give me just a minute, let

[1:23:03] me pull up.

[1:23:53] All right. So, I will start I'm going to

[1:23:56] start with

[1:23:58] >> Could you do me a favor, please? Your voice isn't

[1:24:02] >> a review of

[1:24:04] where we are where we were where we are

[1:24:07] now. Uh last year the water rate

[1:24:11] analysis was presented to the Kichai

[1:24:13] city council to increase our water

[1:24:17] rates.

[1:24:18] The reason for this is our rates had not

[1:24:21] been adjusted since 2016. There was a

[1:24:24] rate analysis done and presented to the

[1:24:26] council in 2021

[1:24:29] uh for both the water and the sewer.

[1:24:31] Only the sewer rates were adjusted at

[1:24:33] that time. No water rates were adjusted.

[1:24:35] So the water utility was becoming

[1:24:38] insolvent, which means we were going to

[1:24:40] be upside down in it. When a utility

[1:24:42] fund like that becomes insolvent, we

[1:24:44] have to use property taxes to support

[1:24:46] that fund. We don't want to do that. So

[1:24:50] a rate study was done. It was presented

[1:24:54] to the city council and the city council

[1:24:56] made adjustments to the water rates.

[1:25:01] Our old rate old rates for a standard

[1:25:04] residential meter was $22. For a 2-in

[1:25:08] commercial meter, it was8730.

[1:25:12] And per gallon use was 1,000 to 10,000

[1:25:16] gallons, 733 per unit, 10,000 to 15,

[1:25:20] 783, 15,000 and up, 1068.

[1:25:26] The rates were changed

[1:25:29] to increase the base rate for a meter,

[1:25:32] $6.60, which made it $28.60.

[1:25:37] And we created four different tiers. We

[1:25:40] had a tiered system before, but we added

[1:25:42] an additional tier. If you'll remember

[1:25:44] through those discussions, through our

[1:25:46] analysis, we found that a majority of

[1:25:49] people use on average between three and

[1:25:52] 4,000 gallons per month. that is the

[1:25:55] average use uh for a home in Kichchi. So

[1:25:58] these rates were predicated off of that.

[1:26:02] So the base or the usage rate went from

[1:26:05] 0 to 5,000 gallons within that average

[1:26:08] use range to 875 per unit.

[1:26:12] 5,000 to 10,000 1095 10,000 to 25,000645

[1:26:19] and 25,000 and up would be 2467 per

[1:26:23] unit. One of the other factors that

[1:26:26] played into this is our need to conserve

[1:26:29] water and part of the reason for this

[1:26:32] tiered system was to encourage residents

[1:26:35] or our customers to conserve water. So

[1:26:38] the more you chose to use, the more you

[1:26:41] would pay. Uh this kind of the way it

[1:26:43] was set up. So these rates were changed.

[1:26:47] They were adopted and they are currently

[1:26:49] being used.

[1:26:50] >> Our commercial water rates were also

[1:26:53] changed. We found through our rate study

[1:26:56] that we were way out of whack from other

[1:26:58] cities when it came to commercial rates.

[1:27:00] Uh we were really, really high. So to be

[1:27:04] competitive, we had to bring those down.

[1:27:06] So, our base rate for a commercial meter

[1:27:09] changed uh to 4435

[1:27:12] uh down 42.95 and the base rate for a

[1:27:16] commercial meter uh was reduced $56 to

[1:27:20] $11848.

[1:27:23] Now, our commercial and industrial

[1:27:25] users, they use a ton of water depending

[1:27:28] on what their manufacturing process is.

[1:27:31] This is in line with what other cities

[1:27:32] do as well. Those were changed from 0 to

[1:27:36] 100,000 gallons at the same rate that a

[1:27:38] resident pays$ 875 100,000 to 250 1095

[1:27:43] and 250,000 gallons plus 1645

[1:27:47] >> what was the former usage

[1:27:50] >> uh I don't have that with me

[1:27:52] >> it was it it matched

[1:27:54] their tiers were the same as the

[1:27:56] residential tiers

[1:27:58] that

[1:27:59] >> oh if that was your question everything

[1:28:01] was the same

[1:28:02] >> and I also do you mind if I point out

[1:28:04] that these these rates that are right

[1:28:07] here that you have just showed. These

[1:28:09] are not the current rates. That's not

[1:28:11] what we get currently charged. Our rates

[1:28:13] have been adjusted after

[1:28:14] >> with Witchita.

[1:28:15] >> Well, they yes, these are old slides

[1:28:18] that were presented.

[1:28:19] >> Okay. I just wanted

[1:28:20] >> So, there has been inflationary

[1:28:23] >> Yes.

[1:28:23] adjustments to them to to

[1:28:27] >> Yes.

[1:28:27] to make up for what Witchah has

[1:28:29] increased their water rates.

[1:28:30] >> I just wanted to point that out. So, if

[1:28:32] somebody is out there going, "Wait a

[1:28:33] minute. when I calculated my rate, I'm

[1:28:36] getting charged a little more than that.

[1:28:37] Yes, right now.

[1:28:39] >> Yes, this was when the change was made.

[1:28:41] I just want to make sure that it's

[1:28:42] clear.

[1:28:44] >> So, everybody in the audience knows the

[1:28:46] city of Ki purchases our water from

[1:28:49] Witchah. We purchase it at a wholesale

[1:28:51] rate. We mark it up a little bit because

[1:28:54] we have a system that we have to

[1:28:56] maintain and run and that's what we

[1:28:58] charge for that. So anytime those base

[1:29:02] rates, those wholesale rates from

[1:29:03] Witchah change, we have to pass those on

[1:29:06] to and that's part of our

[1:29:09] >> and that is one of the other things when we say that there hasn't been any

[1:29:14] changes to our rates. We do not mean

[1:29:16] that there has been no increases because

[1:29:19] as you all know there are times where

[1:29:20] our water rates have increased and that

[1:29:23] is due to WA witchah raising theirs. So

[1:29:27] since 2016, we had not raised the base

[1:29:30] rate at all, but the tiered usage rate

[1:29:33] did change. So just to make sure that

[1:29:36] we're the same terminology there.

[1:29:38] >> And and additionally, that there's a 3%

[1:29:41] escalation rate that goes into effect

[1:29:42] every August 1st.

[1:29:44] >> Yes.

[1:29:45] That that wasn't there. Could you explain what the water fund is

[1:29:50] used for?

[1:29:52] ask to get the what

[1:29:53] >> you talked about the water fund was

[1:29:55] going to become insolvent. That's why

[1:29:56] you had to raise the rates.

[1:29:59] >> Yeah. Because we weren't charging enough

[1:30:02] supplementing what we were paying for

[1:30:04] water.

[1:30:04] >> I understand that. But would you please

[1:30:06] let people know what is that fund used

[1:30:09] for? Why do we need to have money in

[1:30:10] that fund

[1:30:11] >> in the water utility fund? Yes.

[1:30:14] >> Yes. We have to have money in there for

[1:30:16] repairs to the water lines, maintenance

[1:30:18] of the system, to pay personnel to work

[1:30:20] on the system. all those things that go

[1:30:22] with operating the utility.

[1:30:25] >> Thank you.

[1:30:28] >> So, this week uh we were contacted

[1:30:32] initially by a couple people on Monday

[1:30:34] about an increase in water rates. The

[1:30:36] mayor made us aware of couple people she

[1:30:39] had talked to as well and

[1:30:42] social media got a hold of it and really

[1:30:45] blew it up. So when anything like that

[1:30:48] happens, we here at city hall like to

[1:30:50] step back and look at things in

[1:30:53] perspective and that's kind of what this

[1:30:54] slide is about here. Um we know that

[1:30:57] there are some issues. We absolutely um

[1:31:00] and we're working through those with the

[1:31:01] people that have contacted us. Uh

[1:31:04] currently we've had 28 people contact us

[1:31:07] here at city hall about their water

[1:31:09] bill. Questions about it may have been

[1:31:11] too high or they just simply had

[1:31:13] questions.

[1:31:15] not abnormal. Okay. During any billing

[1:31:18] cycle, we have an average of five people

[1:31:21] contact us saying, "Hey, can you explain

[1:31:24] my water bill to me? It seems a little

[1:31:26] high. Why would that be?" And we walk

[1:31:28] through that. If we need to go out and

[1:31:29] check a meter, we recheck a meter, make

[1:31:31] sure it's functioning properly. So,

[1:31:34] we had 28 people contact us. We have 860

[1:31:39] utility customers. Okay. So, when we

[1:31:42] look at this in perspective,

[1:31:44] we didn't have a major problem in our

[1:31:46] system. We had 96% of people who did not

[1:31:51] report a concern. Okay. So, all of those

[1:31:54] people that came in, there were 28

[1:31:56] people. Of those 28, there were two

[1:31:59] accounts that had transposed numbers.

[1:32:02] Uh, one incident was from the public

[1:32:05] works crew misreading the number on the

[1:32:07] meter, which happens when you do meter

[1:32:10] reads. The other was uh when we entered

[1:32:14] the manual read here at city hall, two

[1:32:17] numbers were transposed

[1:32:19] uh 74 for 47. Um those happen all the

[1:32:23] time. Uh but the 26 other inquiries that

[1:32:27] we looked into, all of those were due to

[1:32:31] increased usage. No problems with our

[1:32:33] city water system, no bad meters. It was

[1:32:36] all increased usage that was reflected

[1:32:39] on the meter.

[1:32:44] So, one thing we've heard from people

[1:32:45] this week, there is no way that I could

[1:32:48] use that much water. And I completely

[1:32:51] understand. So, uh what we have learned

[1:32:55] through this process by talking to other

[1:32:58] cities, other water operators, uh and

[1:33:02] doing some research our ourselves to

[1:33:04] help people understand where that usage

[1:33:06] could come from. Uh we just came up with

[1:33:09] these uh interesting facts here. A

[1:33:13] typical residential irrigation zone uses

[1:33:16] approximately 8 to 15 gallons per minute

[1:33:20] depending on the number and type of

[1:33:21] sprinkler heads. As you can see on the

[1:33:23] chart up here for a 20 minute cycle

[1:33:26] depending on if your system has eight

[1:33:28] gallon per minute, 12 gallon per minute,

[1:33:30] 15 gallons per minute, they can use a

[1:33:33] lot of water in a 20 minute period. Uh,

[1:33:36] I didn't understand that, but there's a

[1:33:38] lot of water that's being dumped on your

[1:33:39] yard, especially when it's hot out like

[1:33:41] this. People increase their watering and use uh a lot more water. So, per for

[1:33:47] perspective, a six zone system running

[1:33:50] 20 minutes per zone every day could use

[1:33:53] approximately 1,200 to 1,800 gallons a

[1:33:57] day. And that equates to 36 to 54,000

[1:34:01] gallons per month.

[1:34:07] The mayor had asked about some of the

[1:34:09] ordinances uh as they relate to uh water

[1:34:13] and water utilities um and how we handle

[1:34:16] those uh when somebody comes in and we

[1:34:19] deal with these. So our ordinance says

[1:34:22] that on water leaks when a water line

[1:34:24] leak is located on the city side, so

[1:34:26] that would be from the meter usually to

[1:34:29] the street, the city side, the supply

[1:34:31] side, uh the city is responsible for any

[1:34:34] repairs and costs to repairs and loss of

[1:34:37] water. When the leak is from the meter

[1:34:41] to the house on the customer side, the

[1:34:45] customer shall be responsible for

[1:34:46] repairs and water loss that are

[1:34:48] occurred.

[1:34:50] We have a city ordinance like most

[1:34:52] cities that says people will do what's

[1:34:54] necessary to keep uh unnecessary waste

[1:34:59] or you know use of water uh to a

[1:35:02] minimum. Check your sprinklers uh

[1:35:04] hydrants faucets all other apparatuses

[1:35:07] in your house that are using water.

[1:35:10] And many people have asked can we have

[1:35:12] our meter tested? Absolutely we can test

[1:35:15] your meter and our city ordinance covers

[1:35:17] that. Uh meters shall be tested before

[1:35:20] being set. All of our meters are

[1:35:22] certified before they're set in the

[1:35:23] ground by public works. Uh any other

[1:35:26] time when there appears to when they

[1:35:28] appear to be measuring incorrectly. If a

[1:35:31] test is required by the customer and the

[1:35:33] meter is found to be accurate within 2%

[1:35:37] the meter will be deemed correct and a

[1:35:39] charge of this says 10. I think it's a

[1:35:42] typo in our ordinance. Uh, so we'll say

[1:35:45] $10 plus the amount equal to the actual

[1:35:47] cost associated with the testing of said

[1:35:50] meter. So what that says is if one of

[1:35:53] our water customers comes to us and

[1:35:54] says, "We really don't think our meter

[1:35:56] is operating correctly. Would you test

[1:35:58] it for us?" We can test that meter.

[1:36:02] We will test the meter. If the meter is

[1:36:04] good and it's operating correctly, the

[1:36:08] customer is charged for the cost of

[1:36:12] checking that meter. If the meter is

[1:36:14] defective, the city incurs the cost on

[1:36:16] that. We replace the meter.

[1:36:23] So, we've been looking at a lot of water

[1:36:25] bills and statements this week, and I

[1:36:26] kind of wanted to put this up. It's a

[1:36:28] little bit hard to read,

[1:36:33] but I'll walk you through it the best I

[1:36:35] can. So, the very top graph there is a

[1:36:39] customer here in town who said, "We use

[1:36:43] very little water and our water bill has

[1:36:45] doubled. We don't know why. Um we know

[1:36:50] we don't use water. Um we don't have

[1:36:53] many

[1:36:55] sinks or things in our in our house that

[1:36:59] use water. So we pulled up there for a

[1:37:03] month and we could see that in fact they

[1:37:06] were very low. I mean right down near

[1:37:08] zero there. Uh very very little

[1:37:11] consumption.

[1:37:12] Now you see there's three bar graphs

[1:37:15] there that pop up very high. Uh those

[1:37:20] indicate that

[1:37:22] something in the system water.

[1:37:26] So the first blue tick mark that comes

[1:37:29] up is represented

[1:37:40] one day

[1:37:49] 11 a.m.

[1:37:52] 11 p.m. Something occurred on that

[1:37:55] system.

[1:37:56] that caused a spike.

[1:38:11] Utility operators

[1:38:13] that uses

[1:38:25] So that goes on. It increases throughout

[1:38:29] the day. Through the pink bar there, you

[1:38:31] can see up to 4,800 gallons were used.

[1:38:35] Drops down to 1500 gallons. We can see

[1:38:40] on that bottom chart exactly what

[1:38:42] happened.

[1:38:47] Yes, this person did very very

[1:39:16] every incident or every

[1:39:19] resident

[1:39:24] go

[1:39:26] these incidents.

[1:39:29] >> So are are all three of

[1:39:33] >> all four of those from the same

[1:39:35] customer?

[1:39:37] All four of those graphs.

[1:39:39] >> Yeah,

[1:39:40] >> that was just to explain that one

[1:39:41] anomaly broke down.

[1:39:43] >> Okay. from monthly to.

[1:39:45] >> Okay, thank you.

[1:39:47] >> So, this graph here shows a customer

[1:39:49] that came in and they're like, there is

[1:39:50] no way that we could use that much

[1:39:53] water. Impossible. So, we pulled up

[1:39:56] their account. We can see that they are

[1:39:58] following

[1:40:05] those.

[1:40:15] didn't realize that was happening. They

[1:40:17] didn't realize their system was running

[1:40:18] so long. They used 12,000.

[1:40:22] >> So

[1:40:24] where it says the gallons and it's 20 40

[1:40:26] 60

[1:40:27] >> is that

[1:40:28] >> have to add a zero to that does not

[1:40:32] >> for whatever reason.

[1:40:33] >> Yeah.

[1:40:33] >> Okay. Well, I just when when we're

[1:40:35] giving these amounts and we see 20, 40,

[1:40:37] 60, I want to make sure that we're aware

[1:40:40] that that is 200, 400, 600.

[1:40:44] >> Yeah. Another scenario here

[1:40:49] where we look at they came in that there

[1:40:52] were issues with their system.

[1:40:54] We look at the system, we can see uh

[1:40:57] that their usage per week, another this

[1:40:59] was probably another sprinkler system,

[1:41:01] three days a week. uh their system is

[1:41:04] burning 800 gallons.

[1:41:06] >> Okay.

[1:41:08] >> So, this one says the hundreds and it is

[1:41:11] the hundreds.

[1:41:13] >> Is that correct?

[1:41:14] >> I'm sorry. This one is 8,000.

[1:41:17] >> Okay. Okay. So, if that's 8,000,

[1:41:22] is that 110,000?

[1:41:25] >> No. This this was

[1:41:30] which equals 11,000 gallons that

[1:41:34] >> So how does a resident know which when

[1:41:37] because I had a resident send their

[1:41:39] chart to me and I I don't know if it's

[1:41:43] actually tens or actual gallons.

[1:41:46] >> Yeah. And that's why we encourage people

[1:41:48] to come talk to us because we will walk

[1:41:50] them through everything that we have.

[1:41:52] >> Okay.

[1:41:53] >> Yeah. That's the best way to do it. So

[1:41:55] other things that we learned um during

[1:41:58] this process a small a very small leak

[1:42:01] can waste thousands of gallons in 30

[1:42:04] days.

[1:42:05] A10 gallon per minute leak which is

[1:42:08] equal to six tablespoons. Think of a

[1:42:11] dripping faucet uses 144 gallons a

[1:42:15] day,000

[1:42:16] gallons in seven days and 4320 gall in a

[1:42:21] month.

[1:42:25] A reverse osmosis system.

[1:42:29] Many people are having them installed in

[1:42:30] their house. A reverse osmosis system.

[1:42:34] For every one gallon of purified water

[1:42:36] its puts out, it discharges five gallons

[1:42:40] of dirt.

[1:42:42] You can see how quickly that adds up.

[1:42:47] So things we know, assurances that we

[1:42:49] can provide our community in this

[1:42:51] incident.

[1:42:53] First and foremost, our number one

[1:42:55] responsibility is to provide safe and

[1:42:57] reliable water to the residential meter.

[1:43:00] Make sure that our system is working

[1:43:02] correctly. The water that we are

[1:43:04] delivering to you is safe and reliable.

[1:43:07] All of our water meters are certified

[1:43:09] before being installed.

[1:43:13] Through this

[1:43:14] process we have we can confirm uh and

[1:43:18] prove that our meters are working and

[1:43:20] that we are selling the water that is

[1:43:22] sold.

[1:43:24] What we know is this year we have sold 3

[1:43:28] million gallons more

[1:43:31] in June and July this billing period

[1:43:33] that's in question than we did in

[1:43:37] we know that all the water that we

[1:43:38] purchased we sold. So there's not a

[1:43:42] surplus of water. HI does not have the

[1:43:45] ability to store water. Don't have a

[1:43:47] water tower. Don't store the water

[1:43:50] anywhere.

[1:43:53] Those numbers are consistent. Tells us

[1:43:55] we don't have a leak in the system. And

[1:43:57] it tells us that everything coming in.

[1:44:00] >> And just for clarification, I know he

[1:44:02] just said June and July. He meant June

[1:44:04] 30th to July 31st. It wasn't two

[1:44:07] different months. It was a 30 basically

[1:44:09] a 30-day period. It was just 3 million

[1:44:12] gallons one time that we sold

[1:44:14] >> during that period. Yes.

[1:44:15] >> Correct.

[1:44:17] >> So, we had a couple people say, "Well,

[1:44:21] we think our meter is inflating the

[1:44:22] usage." Okay.

[1:44:24] >> If a meter was inflating the usage,

[1:44:26] which there are no electronic moving

[1:44:29] components in it, a meter only monitors

[1:44:32] what comes through it. The water flow

[1:44:36] is accounted by a little spinning wheel

[1:44:38] in it. It's not hooked to an electric

[1:44:41] motor or anything like that. It it

[1:44:42] doesn't move unless water's flowing. If

[1:44:45] meters were were inflating the usage, we

[1:44:48] would have a surplus of water. We know

[1:44:50] we don't have a surplus of water. Uh we

[1:44:53] do not have the cap the capability to

[1:44:56] produce our own water. we purchase from

[1:44:58] Witchah and sell with

[1:45:03] After gathering all this information, I

[1:45:05] called the mayor. I asked her to come in

[1:45:07] and sit down with us and we met for

[1:45:08] about two hours and we presented her

[1:45:12] with all the information that we had.

[1:45:15] myself, public works director, utility

[1:45:17] billing clerk, city clerk, we all sat

[1:45:21] down, we all discussed this

[1:45:23] and at the end of the meeting uh we came

[1:45:25] up with these findings uh that all water

[1:45:28] meters that we checked are functioning

[1:45:30] properly.

[1:45:32] After investigation, all complaints of

[1:45:34] high bills are directly related to

[1:45:36] customer usage.

[1:45:38] All meters in question have been

[1:45:40] rechecked that extreme dry and heat

[1:45:44] contributed to more use by customers

[1:45:47] and water water purchased and water used

[1:45:51] are consistent. So those figures water

[1:45:53] that we that comes through our main

[1:45:55] meter and the water that we sell are

[1:45:57] consistent. There's no inconsist

[1:45:59] inconsistencies and that goes to where

[1:46:02] we have consumed system as a whole more

[1:46:04] than three gallon 3 million gallons

[1:46:06] more.

[1:46:07] >> I'm just going to make a point of

[1:46:08] clarification here. Um these were the

[1:46:10] findings that were presented to the

[1:46:12] mayor. These are not my findings. These

[1:46:14] were the city's findings.

[1:46:19] » So, we as a team agreed that we would

[1:46:22] put some additional steps in process to

[1:46:24] help our residential customers. Uh

[1:46:28] putting additional information on our

[1:46:30] social media site, which we have started

[1:46:32] to do. Start putting door hangers on

[1:46:34] homes when leaks are observed. Our

[1:46:37] public works department when they're

[1:46:38] just out and about routinely stops by

[1:46:41] people's house and if they see a leak

[1:46:45] mostly with their irrigation system.

[1:46:47] They see water running down the driveway

[1:46:49] or over the curb. They stop, they knock

[1:46:51] on the door, they try to get a hold of

[1:46:52] them, tell them, "Hey, you have a leak.

[1:46:55] You probably need to look at it." We as

[1:46:58] a city cannot fix those leaks or

[1:47:00] anything like that on the resident side

[1:47:02] of the of the meter. We do not have the

[1:47:05] authority to go fix somebody's. Okay.

[1:47:09] Put door hangers on when meters are

[1:47:10] replaced. In the past, when a meter was

[1:47:13] replaced, public works just went out,

[1:47:15] shut off the water, put the new meter

[1:47:16] in, hooked it up, turned the water back

[1:47:18] on, and people usually never knew about

[1:47:20] it. But we will start notifying people

[1:47:22] when they have a new meter.

[1:47:25] >> Uh the city

[1:47:27] is continually going through an upgrade

[1:47:30] meter process. We have

[1:47:33] lack of a better term, our system now,

[1:47:36] or our old system had what we call

[1:47:38] manual read units on it where the guys

[1:47:41] would go up, they'd pull the lid up,

[1:47:42] they'd flip the lid, wipe it off with a

[1:47:45] little rag, and take the

[1:47:48] Now we have a mix of electronic read and

[1:47:51] manual read. The electronic read sends

[1:47:54] the signal to city hall, integrates with

[1:47:56] our system, and produces the wall.

[1:48:03] There is a future option as we get

[1:48:04] switched over to this new electronic

[1:48:06] system uh for the opportunity for

[1:48:09] residents to have access to a portal

[1:48:11] similar to what Witchah does where you

[1:48:15] pay a small fee and then you can log on

[1:48:17] each month and you can see updated

[1:48:19] history of your water. So that's what

[1:48:22] we're working towards.

[1:48:25] Uh, and last but not least, we want

[1:48:28] people to know that you can have your

[1:48:30] water meter tested. And like I said

[1:48:32] before, these would apply if that meter

[1:48:36] was in good condition, good operating

[1:48:38] condition.

[1:48:39] >> Okay.

[1:48:40] >> Um, I would like to say that I am

[1:48:41] appreciative of city staff um, in doing

[1:48:44] their investigation. I appreciate that I

[1:48:47] was included in the meeting to hear

[1:48:49] their updates and their findings and

[1:48:51] that there are um, new steps they're

[1:48:53] going to take going forward.

[1:48:57] So, I talked to council member Headstrom

[1:49:00] today and

[1:49:03] trying to wrap our head around, you

[1:49:04] know, if we have an issue. We're not

[1:49:06] seeing an issue is what I'm saying on

[1:49:08] the cities. We don't have any major

[1:49:10] leaks. What we are seeing when we look

[1:49:12] at all these accounts is increased usage

[1:49:15] at the meter. What what is causing that

[1:49:19] increased usage, we don't know. That's

[1:49:21] what's frustrating for us, too. We just

[1:49:22] don't have the ability to to find that

[1:49:25] out. So, we like to try to use the tools

[1:49:28] that we have to help people find out uh

[1:49:31] what is occurring.

[1:49:33] Todd said, is there a way to find out

[1:49:36] where most of the complaints are coming

[1:49:39] from? So, this afternoon, we threw

[1:49:41] together a little pin dot map here of

[1:49:45] where the complaints are coming from,

[1:49:47] and

[1:49:49] they're somewhat consolidated uh up here

[1:49:52] in this this northern area of town off

[1:49:55] of Oliver, but there's a couple more

[1:49:57] throughout town. So, uh, we will use

[1:50:00] this information to see if there's been

[1:50:02] any changes to the system. We have not

[1:50:05] made any system, but could it be a

[1:50:07] pressure issue? Um, is there has

[1:50:11] something increased the pressure in our

[1:50:12] system that we don't know about that's

[1:50:15] creating more water to be pushed through

[1:50:20] different?

[1:50:22] So, this all of this information, the

[1:50:25] information we get from citizens when

[1:50:27] they come in, we use it to try to figure

[1:50:29] out what's going.

[1:50:32] But I think uh what I want the council

[1:50:34] to know and I what I want our resident

[1:50:36] is please

[1:51:19] There's a reason for it.

[1:51:35] You don't

[1:51:57] Very

[1:52:29] Everybody,

[1:52:48] » I will have more to discuss once we get

[1:52:49] through public comment. Um, council, do

[1:52:52] you have anything for city administrator

[1:52:53] Jensy?

[1:52:54] >> Um, I'm gonna wait till after public

[1:52:56] comment.

[1:52:56] >> Okay.

[1:52:59] Anyone else? No, not at this time. Thank

[1:53:02] you for the presentation. I really

[1:53:03] appreciate it.

[1:53:06] Okay. Um, for public comment, um, I kind

[1:53:10] of put out a warning not knowing how

[1:53:11] many people were going to sign up to

[1:53:12] actually speak. So, at this time, the

[1:53:15] number is low enough. You will each have

[1:53:17] five minutes when your name is called.

[1:53:18] When you come to the podium, please

[1:53:20] speak into the microphone so that it

[1:53:22] gets recorded and state your name and

[1:53:25] your address and then you'll have five

[1:53:26] minutes to share.

[1:53:28] >> Debbie,

[1:53:40] » welcome

[1:53:43] Jonathan Olson, 231 East Kodiak Court.

[1:53:56] Do we have the ability to display that?

[1:53:59] >> He sent me over the file.

[1:54:01] >> It wouldn't

[1:54:01] >> this

[1:54:05] » you couldn't you couldn't get it to

[1:54:07] >> whatever.

[1:54:09] >> Okay.

[1:54:10] >> All right. This is

[1:54:12] >> This is from Jonathan.

[1:54:14] >> Oh, this is from Jonathan. Okay. Thank

[1:54:16] you. Okay. Sorry. Thank you. Apologies.

[1:54:18] My bad. I

[1:54:19] >> So, I wanted it up on the screen so you

[1:54:21] could all see that. But, uh, I will

[1:54:23] start with this. Uh, I did a graph of

[1:54:28] I don't know the exact years, but the

[1:54:30] 2021 rates and I was given the rates

[1:54:33] now, which are very comparable to yours

[1:54:36] uh, three months ago.

[1:54:39] So, and I just wanted to emphasize the

[1:54:42] percentages.

[1:54:45] Uh, the basic rate went up 27% which is

[1:54:48] reasonable.

[1:54:51] The,000 to 5,000 gallons only went up

[1:54:54] 20%.

[1:54:57] The 5,000 to 10,000 went up 50%.

[1:55:02] 10,000 to 15,000 went up 88%.

[1:55:07] 15,000 to 25 went up 54%.

[1:55:12] And for us people that have fescue yards

[1:55:14] and bigger yards, anything over 25

[1:55:18] gallons went up 130%.

[1:55:22] And all at once, that increase to me is

[1:55:27] very hard to swallow.

[1:55:29] Okay.

[1:55:30] Now, my water bill,

[1:55:34] uh, last month it was $51,000

[1:55:37] $1,000 bill.

[1:55:38] >> Wait, wait.

[1:55:39] >> Excuse me. Could you say that again,

[1:55:40] please?

[1:55:41] >> Last month, my bill I just got for July.

[1:55:45] >> Uhhuh.

[1:55:45] >> Was 51,000 gallons.

[1:55:47] >> 51,000 gallons.

[1:55:48] >> Thank you.

[1:55:49] >> Okay.

[1:55:52] » I know about that one.

[1:55:53] >> I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[1:55:54] >> And so it's a $1,000 bill.

[1:55:56] >> Okay.

[1:55:57] >> I came in. I do have an electronic

[1:56:00] meter. So, I came in and it appears my

[1:56:03] August bill, which is the same amount of

[1:56:04] water, three days every week, haven't

[1:56:06] turned it off, is going to be under

[1:56:08] 40,000 gallons. So, I'm going to wait

[1:56:10] till I get my exact bill and then we'll

[1:56:13] come and talk. Uh, and it looked like my

[1:56:17] graph, there were no I looked at the

[1:56:19] graphs for both months, no peaks or

[1:56:21] leaky toilets or anything like that. So,

[1:56:25] uh, I appreciate Matt your openness and

[1:56:28] willingness to work with people.

[1:56:31] So, but anyway, with these rates

[1:56:37] on a dry month,

[1:56:39] my bill is going to be $600, $700 a

[1:56:42] month.

[1:56:44] Okay. So, I have a choice. Am I going to

[1:56:48] pay that amount of money or am I going

[1:56:49] to have brown grass?

[1:56:54] And brown grass is not attractive to

[1:56:56] people driving through Kichi or are

[1:56:58] thinking about moving in.

[1:57:00] $500 water bills are not either. Okay.

[1:57:05] And I guess my last comment is supply

[1:57:07] and demand.

[1:57:11] uh at the prices you have set, we as

[1:57:14] customers have a choice to pay the bill

[1:57:17] or turn the water off. And some of us

[1:57:20] will turn the water off, which means

[1:57:22] less money for you.

[1:57:25] So that's simple supply and demand.

[1:57:30] So

[1:57:31] thank you very much.

[1:57:33] >> Thank you, Jonathan. Council, did you

[1:57:36] have anything you wanted to respond to,

[1:57:37] Jonathan

[1:57:39] or not? At this time,

[1:57:41] >> I'm I mean, I'm Well, I'm just going to

[1:57:44] say I want to hear from everybody that

[1:57:46] has a concern.

[1:57:47] >> And I do I am taking that into account

[1:57:49] to make sure I ask the correct questions

[1:57:52] and formulate them at the end. So,

[1:57:55] please don't take it that I'm not asking

[1:57:56] you because I'm not interested and I'm

[1:57:59] not listening. I am, but I want to kind

[1:58:00] of get the whole picture.

[1:58:04] I would like to ask one question in

[1:58:06] council that he just brought up. So the

[1:58:08] recommended high rate on the over a

[1:58:11] thousand gallons is that part of the

[1:58:12] recommendation that came from Witchah

[1:58:15] due to conservation that the higher

[1:58:17] volume should be charged at a much

[1:58:19] higher rate to try to get people to

[1:58:22] water less.

[1:58:23] >> It wasn't necessarily charge a higher

[1:58:25] rate.

[1:58:33] Okay,

[1:58:34] >> this was one of many. But remember,

[1:58:49] » thank you.

[1:58:50] >> So the do we know what? Well, I'll I'm

[1:58:53] going to save my question till the end.

[1:58:55] It will be related to that.

[1:58:58] >> I think as we go through these also,

[1:59:00] it's important to note that in the tier

[1:59:02] system, you pay the lower rate for the

[1:59:05] 5,000. If you use 27,000, you pay the

[1:59:08] low rate and then the next rate and then

[1:59:10] the next. It doesn't I I had that

[1:59:12] question this week. So, you don't get

[1:59:15] charged just because you went over that.

[1:59:17] You don't get charged for every gallon

[1:59:18] of usage at that rate.

[1:59:20] >> Okay. All right. Go ahead. Did you have

[1:59:22] something else?

[1:59:25] >> Oh, if you want to pass it around, they

[1:59:27] can look at it.

[1:59:28] >> Yeah, you're more than welcome to do

[1:59:30] that. Debbie,

[1:59:39] » welcome Daryl.

[1:59:43] » Daryl Adterbury, 400 East Kodiak. Uh,

[1:59:46] first of all, thank you very much to the

[1:59:48] city administrator for his presentation.

[1:59:51] Uh earlier today I dropped off a letter

[1:59:54] with a lot of questions. Um working

[1:59:58] during the day, don't have time to get

[2:00:00] in here during the day to ask those

[2:00:01] questions. So thought that was a good

[2:00:04] way to do it to get answers. Uh so uh

[2:00:07] his presentation uh answered a lot of

[2:00:10] those questions and it's good to hear

[2:00:11] that the city staff is working on trying

[2:00:14] to find some of the answers to some of

[2:00:16] the questions I already have. Uh, one

[2:00:20] thing that I would like to move on to is

[2:00:22] the uh the bill itself.

[2:00:26] Uh, as I look at the bill and having

[2:00:29] talked with uh friends in in uh Maize uh

[2:00:36] Derby and Witchah, their bills look a

[2:00:39] little different and it explains a

[2:00:41] little different uh what your usage is.

[2:00:43] like uh Councilman Hedstrom said that uh

[2:00:47] you're build by tier. Well, on those

[2:00:50] bills, it breaks that out in tiers

[2:00:53] exactly what your your uh amount is so

[2:00:57] that it's very clear how much you used

[2:01:00] in each tier and how much your bill

[2:01:03] should be. Uh one of the things I don't

[2:01:06] know is uh is there an incremental

[2:01:08] charge for parts of a thousand? uh we're

[2:01:12] charged 5,000.

[2:01:15] Yeah. Okay. So, I did a calculation on

[2:01:17] mine and I used 19 units and it looks as

[2:01:22] though they were all charged at the tier

[2:01:25] four rate.

[2:01:26] >> Oh.

[2:01:27] >> So, I'll talk to you about

[2:01:29] >> Yeah. Just just real quick while it's on

[2:01:31] my mind. We build by the thousand. So

[2:01:34] when they read each month it's 999

[2:01:37] don't you don't get bill that rolls

[2:01:40] over.

[2:01:42] >> Okay. Yeah. And I look forward to the

[2:01:44] opportunity to come in and discuss when

[2:01:46] we both have time. So with that I'll

[2:01:49] conclude unless you have any questions.

[2:01:52] >> Anybody have any questions council?

[2:01:54] >> I don't I

[2:01:56] >> thank you for the letter. I haven't

[2:01:57] finished reading yet this evening, but

[2:01:59] understand that most of those have

[2:02:01] already been answered or they're going

[2:02:02] to be answered.

[2:02:03] >> Okay.

[2:02:04] >> Thank you.

[2:02:07] >> Debbie.

[2:02:11] » Pam, welcome.

[2:02:22] 302 Cheyenne Court.

[2:02:28] My husband built our home 27 years ago

[2:02:31] and I joined him 13 years ago when I

[2:02:33] married him.

[2:02:35] We love Kai

[2:02:38] and along with a lot of my people I

[2:02:41] believe that are still here. We were

[2:02:44] stunned when we opened our water bill.

[2:02:48] We have an almost $800 water bill. We've

[2:02:51] been running 12,000

[2:02:55] 12 units. Is that right? 12 units

[2:02:57] >> and we're over 40 now.

[2:03:01] So, our water uses has we don't feel has

[2:03:05] changed.

[2:03:06] Uh we do have um we do not have a leak.

[2:03:10] We do not believe that. We've checked

[2:03:11] our toilets over and over. We've checked

[2:03:14] our systems over and over. Uh, our

[2:03:16] neighbors had theirs reread

[2:03:20] on Monday morning and so I went across

[2:03:23] the street and said, "Would you come

[2:03:25] read ours?"

[2:03:27] Bless James Hart. I've never met James

[2:03:29] before, but bless James Hart. He came

[2:03:31] and read our meter. He said, "It's

[2:03:34] running properly." And he said, "There

[2:03:36] are no leaks. Is everything shut off in

[2:03:38] the house?" And I said, "Yes." And he

[2:03:41] showed us the little dial that goes and

[2:03:43] moves. He said if there was a leak that

[2:03:45] would be moving. Yeah, that would be

[2:03:47] moving.

[2:03:49] And so we thanked him for his kindness

[2:03:51] and then I made a way to city hall.

[2:03:54] I asked to speak with Thomas and I got a

[2:03:58] whole bundle of people. I got Thomas, I

[2:04:01] got our city administrator, I got um

[2:04:04] Christa and I got Ben.

[2:04:08] And we sat down and we had a really nice

[2:04:10] cordial conversation.

[2:04:12] But when I left, I realized I still

[2:04:15] didn't have the why of my water usage.

[2:04:19] Why is it so high for 27 years? It

[2:04:22] hasn't been high. Why now? I came from a

[2:04:26] plumbing family. I my I was a plumber's

[2:04:29] daughter, a commercial plumber. Big big

[2:04:32] business here in town or in Witchah. I

[2:04:35] was married. My my late husband was a

[2:04:37] plumber in big like Wesley and some of

[2:04:40] the big hospitals. So, I'm not stupid

[2:04:42] when it comes to water meters and water

[2:04:45] situations. My engineer husband is not

[2:04:48] stupid to things now either. He is the

[2:04:51] sigman southpaw on south on social media

[2:04:54] in case you want to know.

[2:04:57] Um, but in like I said when in talking

[2:05:00] to our staff who was very they were very

[2:05:03] gracious,

[2:05:04] all I was received was this.

[2:05:08] That's it. I wasn't offered a copy of my

[2:05:11] bill. I wasn't offered any of that

[2:05:12] stuff. I was just given this.

[2:05:16] And so went home, told my husband, I

[2:05:20] said, "Let's check the toilets again.

[2:05:21] Let's check the water." He goes, "I'm

[2:05:23] telling you, I don't think that's what

[2:05:25] it is.

[2:05:27] I want to know the why. Why is our water

[2:05:30] bill so high?"

[2:05:33] So,

[2:05:36] I sat down

[2:05:38] and I wrote an email. Every one of you

[2:05:41] council people, I sent one to you,

[2:05:43] mayor. Yes. I sent one you

[2:05:46] >> and I said, you know, I want to know

[2:05:49] why. Within two hours, Teresa sent me an

[2:05:54] email back.

[2:05:56] And it was real interesting because she

[2:05:58] not only sent me an email, you called

[2:06:01] me. I texted you. You called you. That's

[2:06:03] right. I have

[2:06:04] >> I still had her number from being on

[2:06:06] fair committee together.

[2:06:07] >> We connected. We did. We connected. And

[2:06:10] Teresa began to go down a process of

[2:06:12] different questions. Were you given

[2:06:14] this? Were you given that? I said, "No,

[2:06:16] no, no. I was given this.

[2:06:21] Save water. Don't waste it." Whatever it

[2:06:23] is. All right. So,

[2:06:30] I got a response from our mayor and I I

[2:06:34] saw the care. Paul sent me a message.

[2:06:38] Paul and Todd, you guys would send us me

[2:06:40] a message back, but you were like four

[2:06:42] minutes apart. I thought, "Oh, I wonder

[2:06:44] if they're discussing it." Paul was so

[2:06:47] gracious. He said, "We are aware of the

[2:06:51] situation." I'm trying to find my notes

[2:06:53] here. We're aware of the situation. Uh

[2:06:56] there is a and quote, "There has been an

[2:06:58] investigation launched. I was told that

[2:07:01] in the email. I was told that it would

[2:07:04] be discussed tonight and that there was

[2:07:06] concern about it and we would be taking

[2:07:08] care of things to find out the why." So,

[2:07:12] I felt satisfied. I'd heard from Teresa

[2:07:15] asking questions. I'd heard from Paul. I

[2:07:18] got your email, Todd. You were gracious

[2:07:21] enough to email me back. Thank you for

[2:07:23] that. Here's the thing. You said you

[2:07:26] talk start talking about rates. We don't

[2:07:28] care. We don't care about the rates. We

[2:07:30] don't care if there's a 3%. We care

[2:07:32] about our water usage. That wasn't

[2:07:34] necessarily addressed, I don't think, in

[2:07:36] the email. Then he went on to talk about

[2:07:38] how wonderful our

[2:07:41] people are at here at city hall and they

[2:07:44] are wonderful, but they didn't help me.

[2:07:47] All right. And so we felt really

[2:07:49] frustrated, especially after being here

[2:07:51] for 27 years.

[2:07:54] So

[2:07:56] after I had all of that had happened,

[2:08:00] um

[2:08:01] I'm trying to find my notes. I'm so

[2:08:03] sorry.

[2:08:06] Okay.

[2:08:08] And I do resp I do appreciate all the

[2:08:10] responses. I everyone that responded, I

[2:08:12] do appreciate it. But since Monday, I

[2:08:15] kept hearing over and over and over if

[2:08:17] you if you go through any neighborhood,

[2:08:19] you can see clusters of legal groups of

[2:08:21] people of residents saying, "What's

[2:08:23] happening? Why is my water bill?" I

[2:08:25] don't care if it's 28. There's more than

[2:08:27] that. There's got to be more than that

[2:08:28] or that haven't called you. There are

[2:08:31] more. I'm telling you, there are more

[2:08:33] people that are having issues because

[2:08:35] we're hearing it.

[2:08:38] Why the increase in the consumption or

[2:08:40] usage? That's our question. That's my

[2:08:42] husband's my question. Why? What has

[2:08:45] happened? It's more than just toilet

[2:08:47] zone. Something's not right.

[2:08:50] And what's interesting is that we keep

[2:08:52] hearing the same pat

[2:09:00] something you've done. We saw a

[2:09:02] wonderful presentation and I'll go back

[2:09:04] and share and take that into account.

[2:09:07] And you talk about the small percentage.

[2:09:09] Only 28 people. I still think there's

[2:09:11] more. only 28 people, but those 28

[2:09:14] people live in key time.

[2:09:18] And those 28 people may be the elderly

[2:09:21] person who can't afford their bill. We

[2:09:23] can. We're we're blessed enough we can,

[2:09:25] but they may not be able to afford their

[2:09:27] bill. What if it's that single mom who's

[2:09:29] struggling to even buy groceries and now

[2:09:31] she's got to worry about paying for her

[2:09:33] water? What about the young family who's

[2:09:35] already having a hard time paying even

[2:09:37] their mortgage? There are people that

[2:09:40] this has caused a big deal with and a

[2:09:43] big hardship in their in their family.

[2:09:47] This month's usage, like I said,

[2:09:50] may have affected 28 people out of the

[2:09:53] what 2400,

[2:09:55] but whether there's 20 28 people or

[2:09:59] there's all 2400, every one of these

[2:10:01] residents matter.

[2:10:03] >> And it's time for somebody to care.

[2:10:06] >> It really truly is. We are fortunate

[2:10:09] enough to know that my husband, like I

[2:10:10] said, can handle it. Not one at the city

[2:10:13] hall offered me a printout. You said you

[2:10:16] were available, but I didn't know that I

[2:10:18] was supposed to ask for it. Nobody

[2:10:20] offered me a print out. Not one. I

[2:10:24] didn't know I had to ask.

[2:10:27] And although you guys were kind,

[2:10:30] um, you know, told me to check for water

[2:10:32] leaks, gave me a wonderful little

[2:10:34] six-inch ruler. And Matt,

[2:10:39] you threw us under the bus yesterday

[2:10:41] when you talked about it's all on the on

[2:10:43] the residence. We felt so betrayed as a

[2:10:47] resident. We felt very betrayed,

[2:10:51] especially after 27 years in Kichi. My

[2:10:56] husband couldn't believe it and that was

[2:10:58] the clincher. That's why I'm speaking

[2:11:00] tonight.

[2:11:01] >> We're very concerned about what's

[2:11:02] happening in Kichi. We're here to

[2:11:04] question and discover the why we have a

[2:11:08] socalled water usage increase.

[2:11:12] So, council

[2:11:14] staff, elected officials,

[2:11:18] it's time for someone to stand up and

[2:11:20] truly care and investigate. Just like

[2:11:23] Paul said, there's been an investigation

[2:11:25] launch. Has there or is there just some

[2:11:28] kind of thing that let's pat him on the

[2:11:29] back and it'll go away? This will not go

[2:11:32] away.

[2:11:33] It will hurt our community.

[2:11:36] Something's not right.

[2:11:38] And right now, we are angry.

[2:11:42] We're We're angry. We don't We don't

[2:11:44] want to be. We're kind people. Some of

[2:11:46] these people back here can tell you that

[2:11:48] we're kind people. I got neighbors that

[2:11:50] came on both sides of us that we love

[2:11:52] dearly

[2:11:54] and we want to be good neighbors. But

[2:11:56] I'm telling you, something needs to be

[2:11:58] investigated here. Something needs to be

[2:12:00] checked out. There's more. do this than

[2:12:02] just high usage or toilets that that

[2:12:06] aren't flushing right or sprinkler

[2:12:08] systems that aren't working properly.

[2:12:10] And uh I could have said two more thing,

[2:12:12] two more minutes, but I took all that

[2:12:14] fluff out.

[2:12:15] >> Thank you. Thank you. I really

[2:12:16] appreciate it. I want to clarify

[2:12:18] something. Um and this is something I've

[2:12:20] tried to get clarified online to help

[2:12:22] people see a little bit differently. Um

[2:12:24] we keep saying 28 people in a community

[2:12:27] of 2400. No, no, no. It's 28 meters

[2:12:31] currently being discussed. That

[2:12:33] represents more than 28 people. So we

[2:12:35] have 28 meters out of what did you say?

[2:12:38] 880 meters. So that's we were comparing

[2:12:43] apples to oranges. It needs to be

[2:12:44] compared that this is 28 meters that are

[2:12:47] known at this time compared to the 88.

[2:12:50] >> One more reason why you need to find the

[2:12:51] Y.

[2:12:52] >> Thank you. Thank you. Council, do you

[2:12:54] have anything for Pam?

[2:12:56] >> No.

[2:12:58] Okay. And I will just say that so in

[2:13:01] that email, as Pam said, I knew that um

[2:13:05] she had addressed her concerns to us and

[2:13:08] I literally did send back I think it was

[2:13:10] like what 10 or 15 questions. What about

[2:13:12] this? What about that? What have you

[2:13:14] done this? Have you done that? Because

[2:13:16] as Matt said, these are all individual

[2:13:19] cases and I don't know who has a

[2:13:22] sprinkler, who doesn't? I don't know

[2:13:24] some of that. So that's why and I and

[2:13:27] because I like I said I've been on

[2:13:29] committee with Pam before. I had her

[2:13:31] phone number and I said these are my

[2:13:33] questions. I sent them back to her and

[2:13:35] said if you don't want to type out the

[2:13:37] answers you got my number. So when you

[2:13:41] guys reach out to us and that's how we

[2:13:44] hear about it. I'm fine with you using

[2:13:46] social media because sometimes that's

[2:13:48] how you find out you're not alone.

[2:13:50] >> Right. And and so if that's how you find

[2:13:52] it out, but as Matt said, when you find

[2:13:54] that out, yeah, reach out. Reach out to

[2:13:56] Matt. Reach out to us. We represent you.

[2:14:01] elected, every one of us up here was

[2:14:03] elected by you. So, thank you for

[2:14:07] reaching out,

[2:14:11] » Debbie.

[2:14:14] We have one here. It says it has two

[2:14:18] knives. as leg.

[2:14:22] » Okay. All right. Weird.

[2:14:25] >> Welcome. Hi.

[2:14:26] >> Hi. Hi. Uh, so a couple things. So, one,

[2:14:29] >> could you just state your name and your

[2:14:30] address, please?

[2:14:31] >> Sam Eglehoff, 469 East Kodiak.

[2:14:33] >> Sam contacted me.

[2:14:34] >> Yep.

[2:14:34] >> Thank you.

[2:14:35] >> So, um, two things. So, one, you know, I

[2:14:38] was one of the lucky people that got a

[2:14:40] 35,000 gallon, which was $600 in water.

[2:14:44] Um,

[2:14:46] and uh, so yeah, I wasn't pleased with

[2:14:48] that. Uh, and then I just checked my

[2:14:50] meter and it's going to be another

[2:14:51] probably 400 or 500 this month that

[2:14:54] because I haven't got the bill yet,

[2:14:55] right? We haven't sent them out yet. So,

[2:14:57] one thing there is it would be nice if

[2:14:58] we could get the bill sooner. So,

[2:15:00] because now we're already like three

[2:15:02] weeks in to August, right? Or almost

[2:15:04] four weeks into August. Uh, and I think

[2:15:06] I just got it last weekend. So, uh, so

[2:15:09] it'd be nice if we get a little sooner.

[2:15:11] The mobile app, maybe that would help,

[2:15:12] too. But I like that idea. Um, now the

[2:15:16] interesting thing that is different

[2:15:17] about mine, uh, so the Bob Kle part of

[2:15:20] this, uh, who lives on Dakota, my

[2:15:22] father-in-law, uh, I checked his because

[2:15:24] he's been out of town, uh, for since

[2:15:27] June 2nd. Uh, and so I looked at I had

[2:15:30] him send me his bills, uh, and he's kind

[2:15:32] of backwards. So he has and so so no

[2:15:35] one's messed with his, no one's been

[2:15:37] running toilets, no one's been flushing,

[2:15:39] you know, no one's been using any water,

[2:15:41] just sprinkler system, basically. Uh and

[2:15:43] so his is interesting because uh so so

[2:15:46] May 30th to June 30th he used 10 units

[2:15:51] which seems really low for uh like I

[2:15:53] think he's got like nine zones. It's a

[2:15:55] big big yard. Uh and that's got 10 zone

[2:15:58] or Yeah. So they use 10 units for that.

[2:16:01] Then June 30th to July 31st of the month

[2:16:05] we're talking about somehow he only used

[2:16:07] six units which doesn't make any sense

[2:16:09] to me at all like at all. So, uh, I I

[2:16:15] talked to the guy here this morning. Uh,

[2:16:16] I came in over the lunch hour and got

[2:16:18] the chart. So, the other problem I guess

[2:16:20] that you kind of alluded to, I got on

[2:16:22] mine, I got the graph. I got the chart.

[2:16:24] He's on an older system, I guess, so he

[2:16:26] can't have a chart and so I don't know

[2:16:28] what the deal is there, but uh, it would

[2:16:31] be helpful to have I don't know if you

[2:16:32] guys on the back end can get any more

[2:16:34] detail, but something doesn't add up

[2:16:36] there.

[2:16:36] >> Yeah, that's when I spoke about we have

[2:16:39] mixed meters. Yeah,

[2:16:40] >> the manual read meters. not give the

[2:16:42] fancy graph electronic,

[2:16:46] >> you know, as we transition over. That is

[2:16:48] our goal is to get everybody

[2:16:51] >> Yep. For sure.

[2:16:52] >> Yep. Yep. For sure. So, I I don't know.

[2:16:55] That just doesn't make sense to me. I'm

[2:16:56] not sure how that would work, but uh I

[2:16:58] guess we'll figure it out eventually. Um

[2:17:01] the other thing I thought that was

[2:17:02] interesting that I haven't heard

[2:17:03] referenced today is when I came up

[2:17:05] today, the guy at the front said that

[2:17:07] every meter was manually read last

[2:17:09] month. uh and that um there was a

[2:17:13] computer system issue and that's why

[2:17:15] they manually read everything. So I

[2:17:18] don't know. I'm just saying like a

[2:17:19] confluence of things altogether

[2:17:22] doesn't really it doesn't inspire a lot

[2:17:24] of confidence, right? So um so yeah. So

[2:17:28] I'm just saying like I think you know I

[2:17:31] would continue to dive into it. I I

[2:17:33] think based on all the feedback, it

[2:17:34] sounds like we're we're hopefully going

[2:17:35] to. Uh I think the the flow rate, you

[2:17:38] know, is an interesting idea. Uh doesn't

[2:17:40] solve my father-in-law's issue, but hey,

[2:17:43] if you know, if no one changed their

[2:17:44] stuff and now it's way more than, you

[2:17:46] know, the previous months or a year,

[2:17:47] maybe you do have you're flowing more

[2:17:48] through their uh if you didn't change

[2:17:50] your your your sprinkler systems and

[2:17:53] stuff. But um yeah, anyway, I think uh

[2:17:56] just, you know, I appreciate the time to

[2:17:59] speak and everything, but just, you

[2:18:00] know, continue digging into it, please.

[2:18:04] >> Thank you.

[2:18:05] >> Anyone have any comments or anything

[2:18:07] with Sam?

[2:18:08] >> I have a question for Matt. Uh so on

[2:18:11] those older meters, can we still see

[2:18:13] like a breakdown like you how you showed

[2:18:15] the

[2:18:16] >> No, you can't see any like additional

[2:18:20] >> manual on those meters. Public

[2:18:26] Okay.

[2:18:34] » Month over month compared to last year.

[2:18:36] >> Yeah. For last year. Okay.

[2:18:38] once a year just like this time.

[2:18:42] We had

[2:18:52] physically touchs

[2:19:00] it.

[2:19:04] Does not change

[2:19:11] electronic.

[2:19:21] » And Matt, just for everybody, Thomas

[2:19:24] said they start reading meters on the

[2:19:26] first and it takes them a few days. So

[2:19:30] somewhere between the first and 5th, all

[2:19:32] of the meter, all of the manual meters

[2:19:34] should be read. We can't do it.

[2:19:37] >> All right. And as somebody who did your

[2:19:39] utility billing for about 10 years, um I

[2:19:42] can speak to why we have the system in

[2:19:46] place and why it takes that long. as we

[2:19:48] alluded, even when we don't have the

[2:19:51] manual reads, um, because there's been

[2:19:55] there's usually always some manual

[2:19:56] reads, even if even if when we did have

[2:19:59] all of them on it, we had a different

[2:20:00] reading system at one point and we

[2:20:03] switched to Zenner

[2:20:05] to make sure that those are entered.

[2:20:07] After they get entered, then there's

[2:20:09] followup to make sure that if there is

[2:20:10] any reads that aren't correct, that seem

[2:20:13] a little off that we would take that

[2:20:15] time. And then um your bills are due on

[2:20:18] the 10th of the month. So that kind of

[2:20:20] puts that person in utility billing kind

[2:20:23] of in that position to be working on the

[2:20:25] bills that are coming in instead of the

[2:20:26] bills that are going out. And so that

[2:20:29] takes a couple days and then late

[2:20:31] notices. And then after that process

[2:20:33] because we want to make sure that before

[2:20:35] we send out the next bill that you have

[2:20:37] the current bill paid for because if

[2:20:39] we're not having that information on

[2:20:41] there then um you're like wait a minute

[2:20:43] no did I pay this? Did I not? and that

[2:20:45] causes confusion itself. So that's why

[2:20:48] there is a lag between when we um send

[2:20:51] it and I know that like I said I heard

[2:20:55] those calls for a long time and I was

[2:20:57] the one up behind the phone explaining

[2:20:59] those and talking them through. So, I do

[2:21:02] get the frustration with when you're

[2:21:03] like, "Wait a minute. If id had known,"

[2:21:05] and I will say that there was a lot of

[2:21:07] times where if we could, depending on

[2:21:09] how things were going, we would say,

[2:21:11] "Hey, um, this was abnormally large.

[2:21:15] Sometimes we don't notice it because

[2:21:16] it's not um if it it depends on the the

[2:21:21] percentage of increase."

[2:21:23] So, I do know that that's why the time

[2:21:26] limit or the times are what they are on

[2:21:28] sending out those bills. And that way we

[2:21:31] also had them sent out at the end of the

[2:21:33] month like that. So people who get paid

[2:21:34] at the end of the month or within the

[2:21:36] first week of the month still had the

[2:21:37] option to be able to pay it in that time

[2:21:39] period to kind of make it easier on our

[2:21:42] budgeting process.

[2:21:46] Debbie.

[2:21:48] >> Yes.

[2:21:50] >> Dennis,

[2:21:52] welcome.

[2:22:00] » Name's Dennis Bell, 408 Comanche Circle.

[2:22:04] Been in Kichi for over 25 years. Never

[2:22:07] met Pam. It's nice to meet you today.

[2:22:13] My concern is is not the rates. I

[2:22:16] understand the rates. Understand all the

[2:22:19] w water treatments in Witchah.

[2:22:21] Understand all that. And I'm perfectly

[2:22:24] fine with that.

[2:22:26] It's all to make everything better. I'm

[2:22:28] a conservative.

[2:22:30] I have a water barrel.

[2:22:34] I have a $4,000 whale.

[2:22:37] I do water my lawn.

[2:22:40] We water our beautiful flowers. My wife

[2:22:42] takes care of them. There are two of us,

[2:22:46] me and her. And I just recently retired,

[2:22:51] but I'm still working because I don't

[2:22:52] know how to quit.

[2:22:56] So, we have had our bill. We looked at

[2:22:58] our bills all for all year year long

[2:23:01] from January to now.

[2:23:04] Actually, we looked at our bill for the

[2:23:06] last 25 years and everything's been

[2:23:08] perfect.

[2:23:11] But somehow this July something went

[2:23:13] whack.

[2:23:15] We now have used 30,000 gallons of water

[2:23:21] that we've never used. I don't have a

[2:23:23] swimming pool. I don't use my sprinkler.

[2:23:27] I use my well. We use our well to water

[2:23:30] our flowers.

[2:23:32] All of that. I even had three neighbors,

[2:23:36] God bless neighbors,

[2:23:38] came and were looking at my meter as

[2:23:40] well. And I was running in shutting off

[2:23:43] toilets,

[2:23:45] faucets, water to the house, trying to

[2:23:49] figure out where could I be losing

[2:23:51] 30,000 gallons of water.

[2:23:55] And guess what? No leaks. Every faucet I

[2:23:58] replaced because I remodeled because I

[2:24:00] retired.

[2:24:03] Every every toilet or every uh item that

[2:24:07] I have in the house, I've replaced and

[2:24:09] used and checked.

[2:24:12] When you lose water, you hear it where

[2:24:14] you're losing water. I do not have

[2:24:17] neighbors that hook up a garden hose and

[2:24:19] then just start filling up their

[2:24:21] swimming pool with it.

[2:24:24] I do not have spongy ground. I've had

[2:24:27] sprinklers go bad. And guess what? After

[2:24:30] a while, this the ground gets so spongy,

[2:24:33] you know you've got a leak.

[2:24:35] You hear water leaking from a stool or not necessarily the faucet or a

[2:24:41] garden hose or something of that nature.

[2:24:44] So, I am very upset. It's probably the

[2:24:47] first time I've ever been this upset

[2:24:48] living in Kichi.

[2:24:51] and being here 25 years building my own

[2:24:54] house and selecting KI to live in I

[2:24:57] think it's my duty to at least voice my

[2:25:00] opinion of what's going on normally I

[2:25:03] don't have too many opinions about Kichi

[2:25:05] other than I love the place my kids were

[2:25:09] raised here and unfortunately one used

[2:25:11] to be here but lives somewhere else but

[2:25:14] I'm also thankful that I can pay my

[2:25:16] bills I'm also thankful that my kids are

[2:25:19] close.

[2:25:21] So, I went to the city. I asked them

[2:25:24] about my my bill, talked to the clerk,

[2:25:28] very friendly.

[2:25:30] He arranged a work order to have another

[2:25:32] reading done on my meter.

[2:25:35] And matter of fact, I was off that day.

[2:25:38] So, when uh the

[2:25:42] worker came out to check the meter, I

[2:25:46] asked him a lot of questions. He was

[2:25:48] very polite

[2:25:51] and meter meter checked out.

[2:25:54] Amazing.

[2:25:56] I checked my meter to the bill. Then I

[2:26:00] checked my meter at two two days later.

[2:26:03] Everything just seems as kosher as hell.

[2:26:05] I don't know what's going on here. I

[2:26:07] really don't.

[2:26:09] I pay bills. If I owe somebody, I pay

[2:26:12] them.

[2:26:14] And that's just the honest way to be.

[2:26:17] But what I don't like is as somebody not

[2:26:19] to check into what my problem is and I

[2:26:22] pay for something I shouldn't have to

[2:26:23] pay for.

[2:26:25] I give to a hell of a lot of charities

[2:26:28] and I think about a lot of people in in

[2:26:30] turn people especially people with fixed

[2:26:33] incomes.

[2:26:35] How are they going to manage this? But

[2:26:38] I'm fortunate enough to be blessed

[2:26:39] enough to take care of it if I need to

[2:26:42] because I have surplus money for

[2:26:44] emergencies.

[2:26:46] So, I'll go to I went to the city.

[2:26:51] He came out, read the meter. He said,

[2:26:53] "There's nothing I can do." He says,

[2:26:54] "You need to come to this meeting or you

[2:26:57] need to talk to Thomas." I went back up

[2:27:00] here and talked to Thomas.

[2:27:02] And the answer I got was, "You have a

[2:27:04] leak." "No, I don't.

[2:27:09] Do you know where my 30,000 gallons of water went?" "I have no idea," Thomas

[2:27:14] said.

[2:27:15] I said, ' So, what does it take to get

[2:27:17] my meter replaced?

[2:27:20] Well, it will cost you $250 to have your

[2:27:23] meter replaced.

[2:27:26] Huh? I paid for hookup when I built the

[2:27:29] house. Why do I have to pay for a meter

[2:27:32] if I have a suspect meter? Never once

[2:27:35] was it offered that they test my meter

[2:27:38] to make sure it was correct. I was told

[2:27:40] it's correct

[2:27:42] and that it's functioning.

[2:27:45] I wasn't offered any charts,

[2:27:49] any explanation,

[2:27:51] or I didn't even get a ruler, by the

[2:27:54] way,

[2:27:58] of what could possibly happen and where

[2:28:01] this water could be going.

[2:28:05] I'm telling you, something's not right.

[2:28:07] I'm not using that kind of water.

[2:28:11] I have no pool.

[2:28:14] If I have to pay for this, I I'd rather

[2:28:16] fill somebody's pool up and pay for it.

[2:28:20] So anyway, I I appreciate your concerns

[2:28:22] of listening to me. I do want you

[2:28:25] understand I love Ki, but

[2:28:29] this kind of drew a straw.

[2:28:32] Thank you.

[2:28:33] >> Thank you.

[2:28:37] Does anyone have any followup

[2:28:39] for Dennis? No.

[2:28:42] Okay. Okay, Debbie.

[2:28:47] welcome.

[2:28:53] Debbie Harp, 531 Prairie Creek Drive,

[2:28:56] Kai.

[2:28:58] I can second everything that's been

[2:29:00] said. I brought my last three bills.

[2:29:05] $250

[2:29:06] for the month of May,

[2:29:09] 97 for the month of June,

[2:29:13] 216

[2:29:15] for the month of July. That is a lot of

[2:29:19] up and down. I did come in and talk to

[2:29:23] Ben about the $250 bill. I got the same

[2:29:27] thing. There's nothing wrong. There's

[2:29:28] nothing going on. I said, "Can you tell

[2:29:30] me my water usage?" He said, "The

[2:29:32] application that we use not working

[2:29:35] right now in it is working on it getting

[2:29:38] it fixed and he did have my meter read

[2:29:41] and he called and said that it was fine.

[2:29:43] There was nothing wrong with my meter

[2:29:46] but the app that they use for the graphs

[2:29:50] was still not working. So that was the

[2:29:52] end of that. There was no other

[2:29:53] followup. Um, I was gone for a week in

[2:29:58] July. So I, you know,

[2:30:02] by 216, my sprinkler system is on the

[2:30:06] same timer that it's always been. Waters

[2:30:09] three times a week. And then I haven't

[2:30:11] changed or extended this watering time.

[2:30:14] I just leave it alone. In the example

[2:30:17] that Matt gave us of how much a

[2:30:19] sprinkler system can use, you used five

[2:30:21] days. We're only allowed to water three

[2:30:24] days. So that was not a fair comparison

[2:30:27] because what you showed was five days of

[2:30:30] watering and we're not allowed five days

[2:30:32] of watering.

[2:30:34] We have a restriction.

[2:30:36] I've even gone to and this is pretty

[2:30:38] silly, but when I'm warming up the

[2:30:40] shower in the morning, I'm collecting

[2:30:41] that water until it gets hot and that's

[2:30:43] what I'm using to water my flowers

[2:30:45] outside,

[2:30:47] you know? So I don't know what else I

[2:30:50] can do or what I'm that is so different

[2:30:52] that's making these bills go like this.

[2:30:55] I mean, that is from 250 to 97 to 216.

[2:31:00] Really, nothing's changed. Um,

[2:31:06] how do we know if we have an old meter

[2:31:08] or a new meter?

[2:31:13] » Okay. And I would encourage you to go

[2:31:16] out to Facebook. I know you're saying

[2:31:19] only 28 people contacted you, but I

[2:31:22] think it would benefit you to look at

[2:31:23] the Facebook page regarding this and you

[2:31:26] would see a whole lot more than 28

[2:31:29] people commenting on this.

[2:31:31] >> Yeah. And I think that was my plea is

[2:31:33] that we can't do anything we don't know

[2:31:35] about. come talk to.

[2:31:38] >> Well, I did and I was told nothing was

[2:31:41] wrong and that the application that the

[2:31:44] graphs come from was not working and

[2:31:46] they didn't know. He actually said he

[2:31:48] didn't know if it would be able to get

[2:31:49] it. So, I did come and that's what

[2:31:54] >> I got in response.

[2:31:58] >> I'm sorry, I was a little confused. Was

[2:31:59] that in May? That was for the $250

[2:32:03] and then the 97 and then 216 is the one

[2:32:07] I just got.

[2:32:08] >> That's just for water. That's not

[2:32:10] anything else.

[2:32:11] >> It's the app is back working now, right?

[2:32:13] Because we've seen some of that detail.

[2:32:16] >> Yeah.

[2:32:16] >> Or or the the detail if you have the

[2:32:19] electronic meter. So, we should be able

[2:32:21] to get that to you.

[2:32:22] >> So, I I don't know which kind of meter I

[2:32:25] have. And Ben never contacted me and

[2:32:28] said, "Hey, it's back up. You can have

[2:32:30] information.

[2:32:31] >> What I would suggest is come back in and

[2:32:33] have them.

[2:32:34] >> Okay, I can do that. But I guess my

[2:32:37] frustration is that it's automatically

[2:32:40] being stated it's not it's the people's

[2:32:45] problem. And I don't think that that's

[2:32:47] fair. We can't all be the problem. We

[2:32:50] can't all have problems with our meter

[2:32:53] and it not be anything to do with Kai.

[2:32:56] And I don't I'm not saying it's the

[2:32:58] personel. I'm just saying I don't know

[2:33:00] if it's the software that's reading the

[2:33:02] meters, if the meters are being read

[2:33:04] wrong, what the clog is, but there is

[2:33:07] something because we can't all have

[2:33:10] leaks.

[2:33:13] >> Just to address part of that is

[2:33:16] taking the same approach as Teresa and

[2:33:18] what we've said. I've got some questions

[2:33:21] at the end that more investigative,

[2:33:24] >> right? But please note,

[2:33:27] everything we're seeing, everything

[2:33:29] Matt's seen, I've talked to Thomas

[2:33:30] multiple times this week, we can't find

[2:33:34] a a smoking gun. We we we haven't found

[2:33:38] a smoking gun. We're still looking to

[2:33:41] see if there's a system issue. We

[2:33:43] haven't been able to find one yet.

[2:33:45] >> And just like

[2:33:46] >> everything go back to usage. So,

[2:33:48] >> and I think that's a very good point.

[2:33:50] That's what I was maybe I didn't

[2:33:52] communicate it clear enough. We we can

[2:33:55] only act on the information and the

[2:33:57] facts we have today. Okay. What we know

[2:34:00] today is that we don't have that

[2:34:04] and there's no problems.

[2:34:07] What we know is there's hiding. Okay.

[2:34:09] We're not saying anybody's fault. We're

[2:34:11] just saying that's the information we

[2:34:13] have. We want to help you investigate

[2:34:15] it. That's why each case is different.

[2:34:19] >> Yeah. We're not

[2:34:21] >> Yeah. Sometimes we can't

[2:34:24] what the usage is from.

[2:34:25] >> But if nothing has changed, my sprinkler

[2:34:27] systems runs the same amount of times,

[2:34:29] the same days of the week.

[2:34:32] I'm collecting the shower water to water

[2:34:35] the flowers. How come I have such an up

[2:34:38] and down when nothing has

[2:34:40] >> Yeah. And that's that's the frustrating

[2:34:42] thing for the city. We don't know that.

[2:34:45] >> Well, we we don't have the we don't have

[2:34:48] the ability to know that. We don't have

[2:34:51] Once that meter once that water goes

[2:34:53] through our meter, we don't have the

[2:34:55] ability to know what's going on.

[2:35:01] » I hear what you're saying, but I'm not

[2:35:03] accepting what you're saying because

[2:35:07] there's got to be an issue somewhere

[2:35:08] because we all have the same issue.

[2:35:12] >> We understand.

[2:35:13] >> I have no water running over my curb

[2:35:16] that you said. I have no soggy spots in

[2:35:19] my yard.

[2:35:20] >> The information we have is what we have

[2:35:22] to work on. That information may change

[2:35:26] and then we will work on that.

[2:35:29] What we're saying today is this is

[2:35:39] » well I I

[2:35:40] >> but we will yeah we are going to do our

[2:35:43] best as a city

[2:35:48] » I mean I don't know what else to say but

[2:35:50] there is something going on. Yeah, I

[2:35:52] think part of the issue either I think

[2:35:54] part of the issue too that has now

[2:35:55] arisen that I am hearing from people

[2:35:58] >> is the fact that on a news story last

[2:35:59] night you said the people use the water

[2:36:02] and they need to pay for it.

[2:36:04] >> That's the problem because you it's

[2:36:07] basically saying it's not the city's

[2:36:09] problem, it's the people's problem and that's I'm listening to them. I

[2:36:16] mean, I've been accused of not standing

[2:36:17] up enough for residents, and it's like,

[2:36:21] no, I'm taking all the information in

[2:36:23] right now. I am trying to listen. I'm

[2:36:25] listening to the city. I'm listening to

[2:36:27] people who contact me. I'm listening to

[2:36:29] the conversations.

[2:36:31] And I don't have answers. And the more I

[2:36:34] listen, the more questions I have

[2:36:37] because one of the things is that you've

[2:36:39] already stated is in a normal month,

[2:36:42] five bills.

[2:36:44] That's your normal in month is five bill

[2:36:48] issues. You now have a minimum of 28

[2:36:53] that you are aware of. And there's more

[2:36:56] that people I've had people tell me they

[2:36:59] don't care. Why should I tell them? So,

[2:37:02] and I'm like, "No, no, no. I really need

[2:37:04] you to go to city hall. I need you to

[2:37:06] log this in with the city." But that's

[2:37:09] part of it, too. So, um, it it was

[2:37:13] really difficult. I I I didn't even know

[2:37:15] there was a news story. I couldn't

[2:37:17] defend it last night. And I said, it's

[2:37:19] not my words. I don't know what to say.

[2:37:22] He said what he said. That's and all we

[2:37:25] can do is talk about it.

[2:37:27] >> And everybody that's here, if that's the

[2:37:30] way it came across, I apologize. It's

[2:37:32] not what And I think you can see that by

[2:37:35] the help that we will tonight.

[2:37:38] >> Yeah. There's there's no

[2:37:40] What we are offering to help people work

[2:37:43] through this.

[2:37:49] » I will make an exception. This is a big

[2:37:51] issue. I want people to be heard.

[2:37:54] >> Jonathan Olson, 231 East Kodiak Court.

[2:37:58] before coming to the city, you may want

[2:38:00] to wait till your August bill because I

[2:38:03] think mine may be 20% less

[2:38:06] and I think that would give you better

[2:38:09] context

[2:38:10] of yeah, we may have used the water but

[2:38:13] it wasn't our fault.

[2:38:15] So that may be a

[2:38:18] >> I have heard from a number of residents

[2:38:20] that are saying that when they had their

[2:38:22] meter reread by the city to see if it

[2:38:25] was leaking that they've been told that

[2:38:28] their number is significantly lower than

[2:38:30] what their July bill number was and that

[2:38:32] there was still like six days left. So

[2:38:35] that is creating even more questions

[2:38:38] like, "Okay, but if I never cuz you

[2:38:41] didn't get your bill to know you needed

[2:38:43] to change your watering patterns or that

[2:38:45] you might have a leak or whatever it

[2:38:47] could be or someone left the hose."

[2:38:49] Nobody knew that

[2:38:51] going into their August watering and the

[2:38:56] numbers are significantly lower and most

[2:38:58] of them I'm hearing are very close to

[2:39:00] what their numbers had been the month

[2:39:02] before. It's an anomaly. But I I heard

[2:39:06] you say like we usually only have five

[2:39:08] bills a month. We have a minimum of 28

[2:39:11] at this point that have been reported.

[2:39:13] So for me that creates a massive red

[2:39:15] flag that something is very much off and

[2:39:21] we don't have any answers at this point.

[2:39:24] So um if if council doesn't have

[2:39:27] anything else yet, I'm going to go back

[2:39:28] to Debbie and ask for the next person.

[2:39:32] That's it. Okay. I'm going to actually

[2:39:35] because some people might not have

[2:39:36] signed up. Is there anyone else that is

[2:39:40] attending tonight that would like to

[2:39:41] speak? Okay, go ahead. Yep. Come go

[2:39:44] ahead. Come up and just state your name

[2:39:46] and your address, please. And then if

[2:39:48] you would after the meeting fill out a

[2:39:50] form for Debbie to have for record.

[2:39:53] Thank you.

[2:40:05] Uh, my name is Joe Thompson and I'm the

[2:40:08] only one here that does not live in

[2:40:10] Kichi, but we own several properties

[2:40:13] right over here. Is it Rock Point or

[2:40:15] Rock Spring? I never

[2:40:16] >> Rock Point.

[2:40:17] And I want to talk about one

[2:40:20] in particular because it's only three

[2:40:21] years old. We bought it new in uh the

[2:40:24] summer of 2023.

[2:40:27] And I happen to have information uh

[2:40:29] about two different points in time. But

[2:40:32] before that goes in, we were talking I

[2:40:35] think you and I about the tier system.

[2:40:37] No, that was that was Thomas. Uh and I

[2:40:42] need to talk to him about that.

[2:40:44] Anyway, I was thinking it was you. I

[2:40:46] don't remember.

[2:40:47] >> Yeah. Um I want to talk about 2332

[2:40:54] East Cheyenne Court.

[2:40:57] right over here about two miles. And I

[2:41:00] want to look at

[2:41:03] the

[2:41:05] July 2025 data and the July 2026 data.

[2:41:12] Okay, that I'm doing this kind of slow.

[2:41:16] The usage for the 2025 data was nine

[2:41:20] 9,000 gallons as I understand it. And

[2:41:24] the total for the water just the water

[2:41:26] was $116.15.

[2:41:30] That's reasonable because you know some

[2:41:32] of that water went into the uh into the

[2:41:35] uh h house and so forth. Now then now I

[2:41:39] want to talk about uh the one a year

[2:41:42] later now. Also that house has been

[2:41:45] vacant for a year. We haven't been

[2:41:47] aggressive enough to get it ready to go.

[2:41:49] We're real picky. I mean if my wife does

[2:41:53] this and if she finds anything I I had

[2:41:56] to stay outside.

[2:41:58] All right. He's mean. Small but mean.

[2:42:02] All right.

[2:42:04] The uh

[2:42:06] >> What's the matter? I'm trying to be

[2:42:07] straight.

[2:42:08] >> We can see her face.

[2:42:09] >> Okay. The you the usage for July of this

[2:42:13] year and nobody's living in there, okay,

[2:42:18] is 15, not nine.

[2:42:21] Now, let me also tell you, I'm the guy

[2:42:23] that controls the sprinklers and I it is

[2:42:27] year round. You know, once March gets

[2:42:30] here, it starts up and then in October

[2:42:32] or whenever we shut it down. But it is

[2:42:35] the same pattern every time. There's uh

[2:42:39] there's three circuits on it. The first

[2:42:43] on both sides, okay, because it's a

[2:42:44] duplex. And the first circuit runs for 8

[2:42:48] minutes and it starts at 12:15 a.m. on

[2:42:52] Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Okay. At

[2:42:57] 12:30 uh a.m. uh circuit 2 starts 8

[2:43:02] minutes.

[2:43:04] And then uh on circuit 3, it starts at

[2:43:08] uh uh 12 uh 12:45 a.m. And guess what?

[2:43:13] It's eight minutes on 2332 and for some

[2:43:16] reason I've got it for 10 minutes on

[2:43:18] 2334.

[2:43:19] All right, but I'm just talking about

[2:43:21] 2332 right now, but they're the same

[2:43:24] basically

[2:43:27] for

[2:43:29] 2026. For July 2026,

[2:43:33] I had 15,000 gallons of usage.

[2:43:38] That can't be right. And I have a

[2:43:41] beautiful bill here for $21655.

[2:43:46] That's that's almost exactly $100 more

[2:43:51] than a year ago. And remember both the

[2:43:54] both both times that includes the

[2:43:56] domestic water that we use in the house.

[2:43:58] Although for this last month and a half,

[2:44:01] we haven't had a tenant. And be honest

[2:44:03] with you, we haven't been very

[2:44:03] aggressive about getting it because

[2:44:05] we've got other things going on. So

[2:44:07] there's not very much uh house water

[2:44:10] being used, you know, other than, you

[2:44:13] know, go to the bathroom there and

[2:44:15] that's about it. Uh we don't cook

[2:44:17] anything there. We don't make anything.

[2:44:18] We don't run the dishwasher, uh blah blah. But and the uh and the the uh

[2:44:26] landscaping, you know, the sprinkler

[2:44:28] system, it ain't changed.

[2:44:31] And anyway, so that's where we are. I

[2:44:33] don't know what's going on, but when I

[2:44:35] saw this 216 versus 116, I thought

[2:44:38] that's wrong.

[2:44:39] Something's crazy about this.

[2:44:42] Anyway, uh for $500 a piece, I'll take

[2:44:45] it and I'll be happy. So,

[2:44:48] >> I have a question. I have a question for

[2:44:50] you.

[2:44:50] >> Yes, ma'am.

[2:44:51] >> Um because I had to play with this a

[2:44:54] little bit myself. We were on twice a

[2:44:57] week watering last year. Is that

[2:44:59] correct?

[2:44:59] >> No.

[2:45:00] >> Tuesdays and Thursdays last year?

[2:45:02] >> I don't believe so.

[2:45:03] >> Weren't we on that drought restriction

[2:45:05] last year? Still two?

[2:45:07] >> I thought we were.

[2:45:08] >> Yeah. Yeah, I thought we were too. And

[2:45:09] then this year we're allowed three days

[2:45:11] a week.

[2:45:13] >> So, did you change Do you know remember

[2:45:16] if you changed your sprinkler?

[2:45:18] >> Ma'am, my memory is about as long as my

[2:45:20] little dog.

[2:45:21] >> It's just Yeah, just just trying to just

[2:45:24] figure things out.

[2:45:26] >> I'm just trying to figure things out.

[2:45:28] >> That's good. Um because I know that

[2:45:30] because our our city sign was broken and

[2:45:33] it was stuck telling people to water

[2:45:35] only on Tuesdays and Thursdays for a

[2:45:37] long time even though we had changed to

[2:45:39] the new watering schedule. So I guess

[2:45:43] there's a possibility that there could

[2:45:44] be some water change there maybe if

[2:45:46] you're going from watering two days to

[2:45:48] three days but I don't know if it would

[2:45:51] be that much of a difference. So, I was

[2:45:53] just asking if you remember if you were

[2:45:55] doing the two days a week last year.

[2:45:57] >> To be honest with you, I don't remember.

[2:45:59] >> Okay.

[2:45:59] >> And and personally, and we have Bermuda

[2:46:02] grass. I think that's kind of rare

[2:46:04] around here. Okay. Everybody else,

[2:46:06] >> my neighbor has it.

[2:46:07] >> Uh, you know, uh, you know,

[2:46:11] >> fescue.

[2:46:12] >> Not fescue.

[2:46:13] >> Yeah. Fescue.

[2:46:14] >> You have fescue.

[2:46:16] >> No, you have Bermuda on my duplexes that

[2:46:19] we own in Bair.

[2:46:21] >> Those are all fescue. And those are the

[2:46:23] most luscious yards you've ever seen.

[2:46:24] And guess what? It runs it it runs three

[2:46:29] days a week or three nights a week. We

[2:46:30] turn on right after midnight and it's

[2:46:32] almost now there's four circuits there,

[2:46:34] not three. It's a bigger lot.

[2:46:36] >> And uh it it u

[2:46:40] it you know it runs eight minutes and then I think nine and

[2:46:44] then for the last one, the bigger

[2:46:46] backyard, it's 10 minutes,

[2:46:48] >> right? And it's and it's staying very

[2:46:51] close to the $115 to $130 range.

[2:46:54] >> Right.

[2:46:55] >> Well, and then you also said that

[2:46:57] there's no domestic water being used

[2:46:59] inside the house.

[2:47:00] >> Not not inside 23. You know, I say that

[2:47:02] it's not that there's no because like I

[2:47:04] said, we my wife and I might work on

[2:47:06] something.

[2:47:07] >> We're washing stuff and so it's not, you

[2:47:09] know,

[2:47:11] that dishwasher.

[2:47:12] >> Yes. You know.

[2:47:13] >> Okay. Thank you.

[2:47:15] >> Okay. I'm going to put out again. Is

[2:47:17] there anyone else that hasn't spoken

[2:47:19] that would like to speak?

[2:47:21] >> Oh, wait one second. Wait one second,

[2:47:23] Doug. Um,

[2:47:24] >> Joe, I'd also encourage you to uh get a

[2:47:26] hold of Thomas and make sure he checks

[2:47:28] for a leak just in case there may be a

[2:47:30] small leak in the

[2:47:32] >> in inside or something.

[2:47:35] >> I I'm I would still encourage you to uh

[2:47:38] check the meter for have Thomas check

[2:47:40] the meter for a link and make sure

[2:47:42] nothing's turning.

[2:47:45] Yeah, you should be electronic.

[2:47:50] » Yeah. Okay.

[2:47:52] >> Thank you, Doug.

[2:47:58] » Doug Wan, 392 East Cheyenne Court. Um,

[2:48:03] I I don't know if you guys can answer

[2:48:05] this, but I I watched the news clip last

[2:48:07] night, but then I watched it on the app,

[2:48:10] channel 12 app,

[2:48:12] >> and channel 12 left something out that

[2:48:15] was on the app, and that was this the lady from CARG, whose water usage

[2:48:21] went from 4,000 to 10,000.

[2:48:25] And I want to know if anybody's looked

[2:48:27] into that or has she come over here to

[2:48:29] talk about that uh for no

[2:48:32] They they they don't have they don't

[2:48:34] have a yard. I'm sure they use water

[2:48:36] inside, but the the jump I would hate to

[2:48:39] lose car, okay, for that. And I I've had

[2:48:43] a couple neighbors, not Pam and Todd,

[2:48:46] that they want to sell their house if

[2:48:48] this is going to keep up. And I told one

[2:48:50] couple, well, you can sell it, but who's

[2:48:52] going to want to move in if these water

[2:48:54] rates are so high? And so I just I

[2:48:57] didn't know if anybody has had a chance

[2:48:58] to talk to Car yet or not.

[2:49:01] Okay.

[2:49:13] » She came tonight. She was here.

[2:49:16] >> She was here for a while.

[2:49:18] >> Okay.

[2:49:24] » Right.

[2:49:25] >> But I guess it's our fault. I guess it's

[2:49:28] her fault. Okay. We're working through

[2:49:29] this, Doug.

[2:49:31] >> U and one last thing on freedom of

[2:49:33] speech is internet. We are free to say

[2:49:37] whatever we'd like on that.

[2:49:39] >> Yes, you are. Thank you, Doug. Come on

[2:49:42] up,

[2:49:44] Andrea.

[2:49:46] >> You're welcome.

[2:49:48] >> Angela Lasage, 347 East Kodiak. Uh my

[2:49:52] husband and I have lived in Kichai for

[2:49:55] almost 16 years and we own a lovely

[2:49:59] property that we have almost a half acre

[2:50:02] and we do water our yard. Well, we did

[2:50:05] water our yard until this week. My

[2:50:08] husband yesterday shaved our backyard to

[2:50:12] the ground and and it is going to stay

[2:50:15] that way. We have shut our water system

[2:50:18] off and and we two months ago, three

[2:50:22] months ago, we had 22 usage

[2:50:26] two two months in a row and then we had

[2:50:30] 15

[2:50:32] uh when it rained because we didn't we

[2:50:35] have a sensor. We had 36 this month. Our

[2:50:39] water alone was $660ome dollars and yes,

[2:50:43] we can pay that. But we have shut our

[2:50:46] system off and we will not turn it on

[2:50:49] next year. We are done. My husband's

[2:50:52] ready to move.

[2:50:54] But um

[2:50:56] there is something wrong. And and we

[2:50:58] know that the meter was read right

[2:51:01] because we went out and looked and

[2:51:02] looked at what it was this month before

[2:51:06] we shut it off. We'd only used 12. So

[2:51:09] because we have cut back because of the

[2:51:12] fact that the um it's so hot that you

[2:51:15] don't you're not doing much good anyway

[2:51:17] except frying it. So, but um and so I am

[2:51:22] reading it every day because there's

[2:51:24] something that wasn't right. We've never

[2:51:27] used 36,000. My daughter has a swimming

[2:51:30] pool. It takes 22,000 gallons to fill

[2:51:33] her pool. My husband said if we had

[2:51:35] 36,000 gallons that we used, we would

[2:51:39] see something somewhere. And so when I'm

[2:51:42] out there looking every day, I get down

[2:51:44] there on my knees, pull up the thing.

[2:51:46] Um, we have no leaks because it's not

[2:51:49] going around. We know that. We know our

[2:51:52] plumbing in our house is good. We have

[2:51:54] no leaks. So, there is something that

[2:51:57] has caused that spike. So, you know, we

[2:52:01] I think we've had times in the past

[2:52:02] we've even used 24, but 36

[2:52:06] is incredible. So, that's all I Thank

[2:52:10] you for listening. Um, I hope you guys

[2:52:13] can find something that has caused that

[2:52:16] those meters to spike. Um, because

[2:52:19] there's several of us in the same same

[2:52:21] neighborhood. U, but yet our neighbors

[2:52:25] who said they expected their bill to be

[2:52:27] very high because they had watered uh

[2:52:30] every every opportunity that they had

[2:52:32] for the three three days. um theirs went

[2:52:36] down and they were like and they said,

[2:52:39] "Well, how'd your skies go spike up that

[2:52:42] much?" And I was like, "We have no

[2:52:43] idea." But uh anyway, uh we will not

[2:52:47] turn our meter on. I hope the city

[2:52:49] doesn't send us their nasty notes next

[2:52:51] year on doing our backflow because we're

[2:52:54] not turning it on. We'll we'll do some

[2:52:57] sprinkling in the front yard with hand

[2:53:00] sprinklers, but until until there's some

[2:53:03] kind of resolution, it's it's ridiculous

[2:53:06] to pay that kind of water rate. Thank

[2:53:08] you.

[2:53:08] >> You're welcome.

[2:53:10] >> Thank you. Okay, one last call. Is there

[2:53:13] anyone else that wants to speak before?

[2:53:18] >> Yes, you may

[2:53:21] to Matt.

[2:53:35] Let's say that you're

[2:53:46] correct.

[2:53:47] >> Okay. Is there anyone else? I I I just

[2:53:50] have it hasn't spoken already. Um I

[2:53:53] don't see anybody else. Um, I would just

[2:53:55] like to ask for who is attending. Is

[2:53:58] there anyone here who has a high water

[2:54:01] bill that they did not report it to the

[2:54:03] city?

[2:54:06] Okay. So, we've we've got we've got more

[2:54:09] that have not reported to the city. So,

[2:54:12] just even in attendance.

[2:54:15] >> Yes. But not for your new one. Okay. So,

[2:54:18] I have one other person that contacted

[2:54:20] me directly, and this comment is out on

[2:54:23] social media, so anyone can see it, and

[2:54:26] I'm actually going to read it because

[2:54:28] this bill was so outrageous that I was

[2:54:31] like, I I can't wrap my head around

[2:54:34] this. Um, their previous reading was six

[2:54:39] and then it was 62.

[2:54:43] So,

[2:54:45] this account holder found out that for

[2:54:48] several months there was zero reading on

[2:54:50] their bill and a few with just one.

[2:54:55] There seems to be an issue with them

[2:54:58] referring to the city reading the meters

[2:55:00] correctly. Um,

[2:55:05] I know this is an issue that has

[2:55:06] happened before and obviously it got I

[2:55:09] guess their bill I I don't know. The

[2:55:10] only thing I can think of is it got

[2:55:12] caught back up or something. Um,

[2:55:15] and I know that the city has talked

[2:55:17] about one of the reasons they took

[2:55:19] announcements off the utility bills is

[2:55:21] because people don't read their bills.

[2:55:24] and the people that made this comment,

[2:55:28] I know who they are and are usually very

[2:55:33] attentive to detail.

[2:55:35] And I think that there's a lot of people

[2:55:38] who get their bill, they see how much it

[2:55:40] is, and they just write their check or

[2:55:43] they just pay it, and they're not

[2:55:45] necessarily looking at it because it's

[2:55:48] generally about the same. Um, I was very

[2:55:51] shocked that this detail got missed, but

[2:55:54] however, it does tell me that there was

[2:55:55] at least one bill out there that had not

[2:55:58] been reading the water readings. Um, and

[2:56:02] so that is another anomaly in the middle

[2:56:07] of all of these bills. And so I guess

[2:56:11] part of my question is have we

[2:56:13] investigated the system to make sure

[2:56:16] this wasn't happening to at least the 28

[2:56:19] that there was not some time where their

[2:56:22] bill was coming in at zero or one and

[2:56:25] people had not looked at their bill to

[2:56:28] see that they did not get a correct

[2:56:30] read. Has that been investigated? Yeah,

[2:56:32] I just

[2:56:36] » only one account because we just had

[2:56:38] this happen a few months ago where the

[2:56:40] council just

[2:56:41] >> there was 20 17 or 20 accounts that that

[2:56:44] had been happening to.

[2:56:52] » But they weren't built. That's not

[2:56:55] >> But they weren't build for their water

[2:56:57] usage,

[2:56:59] >> but we had still paid for it.

[2:57:01] >> Let me just

[2:57:05] because that had gone on for 20 months

[2:57:07] >> because Yep. So,

[2:57:09] >> yeah, I think it was the MIU the

[2:57:11] electronic.

[2:57:15] » Okay.

[2:57:15] >> Yeah, let me look back.

[2:57:17] >> But so, could then could this have been

[2:57:22] one of those that got missed in that?

[2:57:25] >> I can't.

[2:57:26] >> Okay. cuz um this person also phoned me

[2:57:32] regarding her situation

[2:57:35] >> um and asked me

[2:57:37] um if it is found that we were not

[2:57:42] properly billing them

[2:57:44] in the past so that it wasn't recording

[2:57:48] correctly how much water they were being

[2:57:51] used regularly

[2:57:54] um whether it was the MIU or the meter

[2:57:56] or what was being recorded versus build.

[2:57:59] And now because we did a manual read, it

[2:58:02] was a catchup for all those months,

[2:58:05] would they be eligible to be charged at

[2:58:08] the lower tiered rate because the lower

[2:58:11] tiered rate was actually what they were

[2:58:13] using? And then all of a sudden, we're

[2:58:16] playing catchup and we're charging them

[2:58:19] at the highest tier that we possibly

[2:58:21] can. And I think that based on what we

[2:58:24] have done in the past that and I told

[2:58:27] her I would bring it to she had a

[2:58:28] previous engagement and couldn't come

[2:58:30] this evening

[2:58:32] that I would I thought that we would

[2:58:34] honor that. I told her I can't speak for

[2:58:36] the council but given our past um what

[2:58:41] we had done when that previous situation

[2:58:43] happened that we did

[2:58:45] >> figure out what the average usage is.

[2:58:48] >> Yeah,

[2:58:50] I think that's what

[2:58:52] So, another question I had and I

[2:58:54] requested it um was that do we have the

[2:58:58] ability to run an unusual consump

[2:59:00] consumption report that would identify

[2:59:03] how many accounts had an unusual high

[2:59:08] usage for the month of July and so far

[2:59:10] I've been told no that cannot happen. I

[2:59:13] don't I have to ask

[2:59:16] >> I would think with the software that we

[2:59:18] have that's information that any utility

[2:59:20] should be able to have that information

[2:59:23] available um for all all of those reads

[2:59:27] that how many had an unusual consumption

[2:59:30] for the month of July and that the city

[2:59:32] should be able to identify how many

[2:59:34] meters read exceptionally high that it's

[2:59:37] not their normal

[2:59:39] um

[2:59:42] consumption use um in a month. Um

[2:59:47] the other question did and you might

[2:59:51] have said this um my understanding is

[2:59:54] that there was a problem with reading

[2:59:56] last month and it was all read manually.

[2:59:59] So have we gone back to make sure that

[3:00:01] the manual recording

[3:00:04] is the same as what's recorded on each

[3:00:06] account? Okay. and have we gone back to

[3:00:09] the meter to make sure the meter lines

[3:00:10] up with what was recorded for each of

[3:00:12] those reads. Okay, so that's already

[3:00:15] happened.

[3:00:16] Um,

[3:00:18] so a question I do have with this

[3:00:19] billing anomaly is I was made aware that

[3:00:22] our Witchita meter for the total city

[3:00:25] use

[3:00:27] um, it nearly matched the collective

[3:00:29] billing for the month of July,

[3:00:33] but there was an anomaly in there that

[3:00:35] would not have been included in part of

[3:00:38] that reading. So I guess I would like to

[3:00:42] see

[3:00:45] the

[3:00:47] Witchita what's been built from Witchah

[3:00:50] to the city actually over at least three

[3:00:53] or four months and what was collectively

[3:00:55] build to all of our meters to see is

[3:01:00] everything matching up and I I'm asking

[3:01:02] for that for accountability to the

[3:01:03] public at this point.

[3:01:05] >> Can I follow up with that?

[3:01:06] >> Go ahead. I know when I was in that

[3:01:08] position, I kept a spreadsheet that

[3:01:10] showed that so we could see the

[3:01:12] anomalies on both um what the city

[3:01:17] build for water and what the city was

[3:01:19] build for water. I did the same for

[3:01:21] sewer so that we could see those. Is

[3:01:24] that spreadsheet do you know still being

[3:01:25] maintained?

[3:01:27] >> I don't have a yes or no for you.

[3:01:31] >> Okay.

[3:01:33] part of that.

[3:01:38] » So that's

[3:01:43] » so well I just was mentioning it because

[3:01:46] then that if we had that spreadsheet it

[3:01:48] would have because we actually have two

[3:01:50] water meters coming from Witchah.

[3:01:52] >> Okay.

[3:01:53] >> I guess of an overall picture though

[3:01:57] there may be individual anomalies but

[3:02:00] presented earlier was there's we use

[3:02:03] three as as a community we use three

[3:02:07] million more gallons than we did the

[3:02:10] previous month.

[3:02:11] >> So there may be some

[3:02:14] >> previous year excuse me.

[3:02:16] >> Um so

[3:02:18] >> no it was million large level everything

[3:02:22] that's going out is the same as what

[3:02:24] were coming in. So we've got something

[3:02:27] going on. It's not like

[3:02:29] >> one of them isn't matching up.

[3:02:31] >> No,

[3:02:31] >> there may be little anomalies and all

[3:02:33] the distribution side,

[3:02:35] >> but we're bringing in that much.

[3:02:38] >> So, we're using it someplace. I mean, I

[3:02:41] shouldn't say it's going through the

[3:02:42] meters

[3:02:43] >> and there should be some anomalies

[3:02:44] because of when if we're reading on the

[3:02:48] 1st through the 4th, our meters that

[3:02:52] from Witchah aren't necessarily being

[3:02:54] read on the same day. They are in fact

[3:02:56] like I said we have two meters coming

[3:02:58] from Witchah. So they are not being read

[3:03:01] necessarily on the same day. It was also

[3:03:03] how we found out we had a sewer problem

[3:03:05] because we started tracking that and

[3:03:07] saying whoa why how how do we have so

[3:03:09] much more water going back to Witchah

[3:03:11] >> every time it rained.

[3:03:13] we had

[3:03:14] infiltration. But if we keep track of

[3:03:15] that that's how we find those things.

[3:03:18] So, um, how many do you know how many

[3:03:21] meters we have that are not being

[3:03:25] electronically read that are not on

[3:03:27] center?

[3:03:27] >> I don't have

[3:03:29] >> I think Thomas in the meeting this week

[3:03:31] said he needs to replace 300 still. So,

[3:03:34] I'm guessing that basically 300 are not

[3:03:37] the that would be a good estimate

[3:03:39] probably.

[3:03:41] >> Yeah. So about 300 would need to be

[3:03:43] replaced before we can open up the

[3:03:46] Zenner monitoring system.

[3:03:49] >> Okay. Um

[3:03:52] so when and I know that most of you guys

[3:03:54] had problems with usage but the tier

[3:03:56] system um got brought up as well. So I

[3:03:59] was not on council when this current one

[3:04:02] um was adopted. So my question would be

[3:04:05] were the the tiers that we use are those

[3:04:09] similar to the tiers that Witchah uses

[3:04:11] or were those ones that were recommended

[3:04:14] from the um water rate study?

[3:04:23] » So but I'm but so in the water rate

[3:04:26] study is is that what was recommended to

[3:04:30] the council? No, the

[3:04:32] >> No. And I'll I'll I want to speak to

[3:04:34] that. So I

[3:04:35] >> Okay.

[3:04:36] >> What what the water wise or water guys

[3:04:39] >> Great rates some great rates.

[3:04:41] >> Great rates.

[3:04:41] >> Yeah. Great rates.

[3:04:42] >> What they recommended was the three tier

[3:04:44] system. And I asked for a lower tier to

[3:04:49] be put in the 0ero to 5,000

[3:04:52] so that people on

[3:04:56] in, you know, very small households that

[3:04:58] are really struggling, we could get them

[3:05:00] a lower rate because everything of the

[3:05:02] three existing tiers that we've had was

[3:05:05] going up. So I asked Matt if he could go

[3:05:09] back, have them rerun it at a lower tier

[3:05:12] for essential use only. And I understand

[3:05:15] 5,000 is not that much,

[3:05:17] >> but it's for the essential use only that

[3:05:20] people who are really struggling can get

[3:05:23] the lowest rate possible.

[3:05:25] In response to that, we had to raise the

[3:05:29] higher tier. So if you're going over

[3:05:32] 25,000,

[3:05:34] that's part of that reason. So

[3:05:38] part of what I asked for, but we did go

[3:05:42] from three tiers to four tiers.

[3:05:46] >> Thank you.

[3:05:48] >> Sure. Go ahead.

[3:05:55] » July of 25.

[3:05:58] >> Yeah.

[3:05:58] >> And I'm pretty sure it was July of 25.

[3:06:02] >> Yeah. because I actually asked if the

[3:06:04] escalation rate was going to go up

[3:06:05] August 1st after the new rates got put

[3:06:07] into effect last year and it was no. You

[3:06:09] didn't have an extra 3% last year. So, one one of the thing I would like to

[3:06:15] say really quick is that I attended the

[3:06:17] Kansas Water Office local consult today

[3:06:20] and I talked someone sitting beside me

[3:06:23] was from

[3:06:24] a utility

[3:06:26] company and has been in the utility

[3:06:29] business for many many many years.

[3:06:32] And in the discussion,

[3:06:36] because of the news story, it's already

[3:06:37] out all over the place that Kichi has

[3:06:40] this high water issue going on with

[3:06:42] their bills.

[3:06:43] This person said it's almost impossible

[3:06:46] for a town of our size to suddenly use 3

[3:06:50] million gallons more water. Um

[3:06:53] especially when 2400 actually includes

[3:06:55] Sunnydale and they're on rule water one.

[3:06:58] So that just I would I personally would

[3:07:01] like an investigation of the whole

[3:07:02] system

[3:07:04] because it's is such a strange

[3:07:08] issue that has come up. 28 is a start.

[3:07:12] There's way more than 28 people that

[3:07:14] have this big huge spike. And it's like

[3:07:18] I think the citizens need

[3:07:22] to see that the city's going to do

[3:07:23] everything possible to show them that

[3:07:29] we care and that we want to do

[3:07:32] everything we possibly can to make sure

[3:07:35] something didn't happen. Some software

[3:07:38] glitch. Was there some cyber attack? Was

[3:07:40] there I I don't know. I mean, are these

[3:07:43] really I mean, are these water uses

[3:07:45] really like we can't we literally can't

[3:07:47] explain them and nothing can be found at

[3:07:50] all.

[3:07:54] » And that that will be a council

[3:07:55] decision.

[3:07:57] >> Yes.

[3:08:08] » Okay. Hang on, guys. Hang on. Let Let

[3:08:09] him Let him speak. Hang on.

[3:08:12] I've already asked them and that is

[3:08:13] possibility

[3:08:19] totally up to us but we need to see

[3:08:23] >> okay

[3:08:24] >> we've already

[3:08:25] >> Okay.

[3:08:30] » Yes. Okay.

[3:08:33] >> Okay. So PEC is our regularly contracted

[3:08:36] engineering company for the city of

[3:08:38] Kichi. So they know us. So anyway, I'm

[3:08:42] just going to put that out there. I'm

[3:08:43] going to let council continue to discuss

[3:08:45] the matter.

[3:08:47] >> Um, so

[3:08:49] I know that um, residents are as a whole

[3:08:54] make up a great portion of our water

[3:08:56] use, but we also have several our

[3:08:59] highest water users are industrial and

[3:09:02] commercial. So do we know what their

[3:09:05] rate I mean their usage increased over

[3:09:08] that same period of time? so that we can

[3:09:10] compare um what were the what was the

[3:09:15] consumption amounts by customer type.

[3:09:20] » Awesome.

[3:09:20] >> Well, I know that.

[3:09:22] >> Yeah.

[3:09:22] >> Okay. Well,

[3:09:23] >> a question.

[3:09:24] >> Okay. No, I I know that we can do the

[3:09:28] report. I just want to know the data

[3:09:31] from it. I mean, because I'll be honest.

[3:09:33] I know Debbie knows that we have to have

[3:09:35] some of that just to file our monthly

[3:09:36] sales tax. We have to know different

[3:09:38] rates because of because of that.

[3:09:41] >> Maybe asking have any of the 28 been

[3:09:44] commercial?

[3:09:46] >> Oh, I and I wasn't worried about that.

[3:09:48] What I'm worried because

[3:09:49] >> they have such high volume.

[3:09:50] >> They have a very high volume before they

[3:09:52] move up to a tier. So, for instance, it

[3:09:54] was what 100,000 gallons is up to

[3:09:58] 100,000 gallons is their first tier. And

[3:10:00] I understand that they use water um for

[3:10:04] their production and things like that.

[3:10:06] and that's how they make money. But I

[3:10:09] also know that um when they're watering

[3:10:13] their grass, are they being held to the

[3:10:16] same standard of conserving water for

[3:10:18] their for their lawns as we are for our

[3:10:22] residents? So for instance, meter

[3:10:24] engineers, how much of their water bill

[3:10:28] is for their irrigation versus how much

[3:10:32] of their water bill is for um production

[3:10:37] because I know that I mean they a lot of

[3:10:40] times there's two separate meters or

[3:10:42] there had been in the past. So when I

[3:10:44] think of how much water is being used,

[3:10:47] do we have that information that we So

[3:10:49] when we look at that 3 million and I

[3:10:52] know that like you said that's a big

[3:10:53] anomaly, but how much of that is coming

[3:10:56] from

[3:10:57] I mean Valley Floral has got to use I

[3:10:59] mean they use a lot of water because

[3:11:00] they're plant-based that okay they have

[3:11:03] plants they not

[3:11:07] >> um when when we go wash our cars more KI

[3:11:10] car wash is going to use more water and

[3:11:12] I know that I So, I just want to see,

[3:11:15] you know, where is is is some of that

[3:11:17] feeding into that. I did have a qu I did

[3:11:20] write a question about making sure we're

[3:11:22] running a zero consumption in our high

[3:11:23] usage reports. Um, we've talked about

[3:11:27] the watering restrictions and um are we

[3:11:31] enforcing

[3:11:33] um the watering restrictions? What are I

[3:11:36] mean

[3:11:41] » okay

[3:11:42] >> during the day

[3:11:50] » and that was something we talked about

[3:11:51] too where that could end up with a door

[3:11:53] hanger and just saying hey reminder

[3:11:56] Monday Wednesday only between

[3:11:59] >> 10 before 10 or after six

[3:12:01] >> and I one of my um like I said those

[3:12:03] were some of my questions

[3:12:05] Um,

[3:12:06] and again, like I said with the social

[3:12:08] media, I understand and and I'm going to

[3:12:10] say, yeah, when Mr. Jensen saying he's

[3:12:12] not going to go investigate social media

[3:12:14] to see where the complaints are coming

[3:12:16] from, we need to make sure the

[3:12:18] complaints are coming to hear when you

[3:12:19] have them. Yes.

[3:12:20] >> However,

[3:12:22] and yes, it is definitely free speech

[3:12:25] and I encourage that because I think

[3:12:27] that there's a lot of you who felt like,

[3:12:30] is this only me?

[3:12:33] and and you had a different reaction

[3:12:36] when he's like, "Okay." And I know

[3:12:37] several of you came in and talked to him

[3:12:40] and said, "Hey, I found out or I didn't

[3:12:42] find out and I still really want to know

[3:12:44] what's going on and we really want you

[3:12:46] to know what's going on because like I

[3:12:48] said, whether I mean I mine is stay

[3:12:52] steady. I am two units. My husband and

[3:12:55] I, we do not water because I have a big

[3:12:57] yard and I say God waters it when he

[3:12:59] wants it green and otherwise my I still

[3:13:02] have to mow it. Well, we don't I don't

[3:13:04] get that. But um so we that we're just a

[3:13:07] household of two. So we are in that

[3:13:09] lower tier. Um

[3:13:11] but I also know that those leaks happen.

[3:13:14] We've had it where it was the toilet

[3:13:16] that leaked that flapper. It it made a

[3:13:18] big difference. So, um, I want you guys

[3:13:22] to know that keep keep talking to each

[3:13:24] other. Keep being a community because we

[3:13:27] need to come together. And even if we're

[3:13:28] only coming together on social media, we

[3:13:31] need to come together. We need to feel

[3:13:32] like we're out there that we I'm glad to

[3:13:34] hear that your neighbors were out

[3:13:36] talking to each other. I'm sorry it was

[3:13:37] about this and not about, you know,

[3:13:40] >> doing a rain dance so we get some rain.

[3:13:42] But, um, yeah. So, make sure you're

[3:13:46] letting us know. City, whether it's city

[3:13:48] council, city hall, we want to hear from

[3:13:51] you. We want to hear your concerns.

[3:13:54] That's what we're about.

[3:13:56] >> So, and I I do want to I hope that we

[3:13:58] can get some some satisfactory answers.

[3:14:02] Um I know we had already I had one on

[3:14:05] here about how are meters tested? Um

[3:14:07] that's been answered. So, but I think my

[3:14:10] biggest one is, you know, what do we

[3:14:12] need to do to work together to instill

[3:14:14] confidence

[3:14:16] >> back to you guys that that you are what you're being charged is reflective

[3:14:20] of what you used?

[3:14:25] » Okay.

[3:14:26] >> I've been waiting.

[3:14:27] >> Sorry. So, um, I asked as asked Matt

[3:14:30] this afternoon to put together that map

[3:14:33] of where the usage was because I've

[3:14:35] talked to Thomas a couple times and he's

[3:14:37] telling me I'm barking up the wrong

[3:14:39] tree, but of all the people in here, who all is in Prairie Creek area

[3:14:47] and and everybody's was hired, right?

[3:14:51] Has And I know,

[3:14:54] >> right? I I know it's not I know there's

[3:14:57] others. I'm just saying it seems like a

[3:14:59] majority

[3:14:59] >> like a cluster.

[3:15:01] >> Um

[3:15:02] >> has anybody and I know this is a

[3:15:04] completely subjective question but I'm

[3:15:06] not giving up on it. Has anybody noticed

[3:15:10] increased pressure

[3:15:12] or better not in this case but better

[3:15:16] water pressure

[3:15:18] the last six monthsish?

[3:15:21] It

[3:15:23] >> less. Okay. I on our side over here I

[3:15:26] noticed ours was was higher

[3:15:29] >> and Thomas assured me that no the

[3:15:31] pressure is the same. The reason I asked

[3:15:33] is I was thinking okay if the pressures

[3:15:35] went up

[3:15:36] >> then you know those are free flowing

[3:15:38] meters they just meter what's going if

[3:15:40] your if your pressure goes up and you're

[3:15:42] watering for the same amount of time

[3:15:44] then more is going to go through. So I

[3:15:46] was thinking maybe

[3:15:55] » Go ahead and come up to the mic so that

[3:15:57] we can hear what happened.

[3:16:00] >> It's okay.

[3:16:04] » We already know.

[3:16:06] >> I know. We had a situation that

[3:16:08] happened.

[3:16:08] >> Help me.

[3:16:10] >> Two days ago.

[3:16:10] Okay. Four o'clock in the

[3:16:13] morning. Watering time.

[3:16:15] Doug waters in the morning at three. We

[3:16:19] I think Todd did his at three. Did do

[3:16:21] you did you water?

[3:16:24] whatever Clint does his. And we had the

[3:16:27] most unusual thing. My husband woke up

[3:16:29] at four o'clock. I didn't want to say

[3:16:31] this because it's gonna say you're gonna

[3:16:32] say, "Oh, that's what's going on." No,

[3:16:34] it's not. But we had the most unusual

[3:16:36] thing happened. He jumps out of bed,

[3:16:38] heard something. It was our backflow pre

[3:16:42] blue. I mean, I don't know how to say

[3:16:43] it. Just it came apart. We thought first

[3:16:45] somebody was tampering with it. But not

[3:16:47] only did ours do that, but so did Sue's

[3:16:51] behind us.

[3:16:53] And then so did

[3:16:54] >> Ricky

[3:16:56] did the same thing.

[3:16:57] >> Yeah.

[3:16:58] >> All in the same time period.

[3:17:00] >> You guys told Thomas that?

[3:17:02] >> No,

[3:17:03] >> not yet.

[3:17:04] >> Because I didn't want to find any more

[3:17:06] about water.

[3:17:07] >> Well, those are

[3:17:08] >> But I'm going to tell you something. It

[3:17:10] all happened in about a three to

[3:17:12] whatever period. And my husband said,

[3:17:15] who's an engineer and like I said, he's

[3:17:18] smart, right? Well, and that is what

[3:17:20] that is why he posted about air in the

[3:17:22] line.

[3:17:22] >> Yes. And he says because of Park City.

[3:17:25] But the thing is is something happened.

[3:17:28] We know something happened. He went out

[3:17:30] there, shut our system down first. And

[3:17:32] he was mad. I mean, we're getting all

[3:17:34] new security, you know, but it he said,

[3:17:36] "I don't think it's that. It's a

[3:17:38] something's clean here. We didn't file a

[3:17:40] police report.

[3:17:42] >> Snapped

[3:17:42] >> it. It's it came out. It just came out."

[3:17:45] But Sue had a or my neighbor behind us

[3:17:49] that I won't tell you her name. She had

[3:17:52] uh a new system put in just recently.

[3:17:56] Clint went over and was talking to her.

[3:17:58] Right, April? Me here and and she had

[3:18:02] the same situation going on. Then he

[3:18:05] calls Ricky Bobby and find out that he's

[3:18:08] had a problem all and they that says

[3:18:11] it's that is so rare for that to happen.

[3:18:14] So yes, I think there was a pressure

[3:18:15] some

[3:18:16] >> all the valves blew.

[3:18:18] >> Well, those are the pieces of the puzzle

[3:18:19] we need to know about to help,

[3:18:21] >> right?

[3:18:21] >> But do you understand why we didn't?

[3:18:25] >> Okay, that's why because we don't listen

[3:18:27] to

[3:18:28] >> I'm sorry, but that's exactly what it

[3:18:29] is.

[3:18:30] >> I know. I know. I

[3:18:33] >> That's why that's why people won't

[3:18:35] because when they hear that it's their

[3:18:37] fault, they're like, well, they aren't

[3:18:39] listening to us and so they don't want

[3:18:41] to share anymore.

[3:18:43] So, and it is something we have to

[3:18:45] rebuild trust, which is why I do believe

[3:18:48] we need an independent investigation.

[3:18:51] >> And it's and I mean, I get PEC knows our

[3:18:54] system, but yet at the same time, it's

[3:18:56] like putting it out for bid for someone

[3:18:59] to come in and do the investigation.

[3:19:01] >> I find I don't I don't know. PEC's who

[3:19:04] we ask for engineering questions

[3:19:06] obviously because we're contracted with

[3:19:08] them. I don't know if they have that

[3:19:10] specialty, but

[3:19:11] >> I think that that that's exactly why I

[3:19:14] was asking that question is because to

[3:19:17] me

[3:19:18] >> it makes sense.

[3:19:19] >> A bit of an engineering brain. I'm not

[3:19:21] an engineer, but I pretend to be one.

[3:19:24] >> But to me, it's there's so many usage

[3:19:28] increases.

[3:19:29] >> Now, I we also have to all acknowledge

[3:19:33] that I I beg you guys, do not compare

[3:19:37] your usage to 2025. Correct. 2025 was

[3:19:41] wonderful. I hardly ran my sprinkler

[3:19:43] system at all. Grass was green. It was

[3:19:46] cool. It was wet. Okay. But going back

[3:19:48] to 2024, 2023 and looking at those

[3:19:52] usages, I think is valid.

[3:19:54] >> Yes.

[3:19:54] >> Um but

[3:19:56] >> what's that?

[3:19:58] >> I

[3:19:58] >> Well, but what I'm saying is

[3:20:03] >> Yeah.

[3:20:05] >> That That's what I'm That's what

[3:20:09] Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

[3:20:10] >> But that's that's the point. I I

[3:20:12] apologize if I'm not communicating it

[3:20:14] properly, but that's the point I'm

[3:20:16] trying to make is the usage is up. I mean, we see it on

[3:20:22] the intake side, right?

[3:20:24] >> And we see it on the output side. So,

[3:20:26] the usage is really up. So, to me, in my

[3:20:30] simple brain, if you're running at an

[3:20:32] increased pressure, then you're flowing

[3:20:35] more. That that's the way

[3:20:38] water works. And and

[3:20:40] so if we're popping valves,

[3:20:44] maybe there is something that we're

[3:20:46] having pressure spikes at night when things are running because that's

[3:20:50] when I run mine, too,

[3:20:51] >> right?

[3:20:52] >> But maybe that pressure is spiking

[3:20:54] >> because, you know, nobody in Witchaw is

[3:20:57] using I don't know.

[3:20:59] >> Maybe it's a possibility. Would Thomas

[3:21:01] have access to that kind of data on the

[3:21:04] pressures or does it have to

[3:21:05] >> He told me he told me there's no change

[3:21:07] in our pressure but Thomas isn't

[3:21:10] measuring the middle of the night. He

[3:21:13] goes and looks and says that but I don't

[3:21:16] know if we have that data.

[3:21:17] >> Well, we had the water study that we

[3:21:19] that he

[3:21:21] >> that they gave us recently that talked

[3:21:23] about the different times in the peak

[3:21:24] hours and what the what the spikes were.

[3:21:27] Right.

[3:21:27] >> But I don't I think it's worth

[3:21:29] investigating. Okay. Do we have

[3:21:31] >> Yeah.

[3:21:31] >> pressure spikes? Are we having an

[3:21:33] increased system pressure that

[3:21:35] everything is flowing more?

[3:21:36] >> Yeah.

[3:21:37] >> Well, and I think one of the things for

[3:21:39] me personally because we have an

[3:21:40] irrigation well and we have a lot of air

[3:21:43] in our well line that it spits out a lot

[3:21:46] of air before it gets to water. I don't

[3:21:48] normally have that in my city hose line,

[3:21:50] but I have noticed this summer if I use

[3:21:54] my regular hose, I have a lot more air

[3:21:56] in my hose line. So, and to my house

[3:22:00] that hooks up to city water. Yeah.

[3:22:02] Because I have two spets that are city

[3:22:04] water, but I have noticed I'm having

[3:22:07] more air and it's like when it starts

[3:22:08] up, it's like I'm getting a lot of air

[3:22:10] through it. And I'm like, what in the

[3:22:11] world is happening in my city line

[3:22:13] because my well line does that getting

[3:22:15] going, but my city line doesn't usually

[3:22:17] do that. So, it's just something I

[3:22:20] noticed this summer. And I will say kind

[3:22:22] of piggybacking on what Todd said that I

[3:22:24] did when when I asked you guys I said

[3:22:26] what is your historic usage and I said

[3:22:28] and don't look at one year because we

[3:22:30] have one year on the on the bill right

[3:22:33] >> look back if you have that kind of

[3:22:35] information and I know some people keep

[3:22:37] their bills and some people as soon as

[3:22:39] you write the check and it clears it's

[3:22:42] gone. Um like I said I I heard Dennis

[3:22:45] say he had 25 years worth of bills. Um I

[3:22:47] think my husband has about 22 2

[3:22:51] 12 years. I don't know when he he we

[3:22:53] every once in a while I'm like, "Okay,

[3:22:55] we don't need that anymore. We're we're

[3:22:56] good with it." But it is good to look

[3:22:58] back and say, "What has changed?"

[3:23:00] Because I can guarantee you that when my

[3:23:02] three kids moved out, yeah, my water

[3:23:03] went down. But looking at those and

[3:23:06] being able to kind of say, "Oh yeah,

[3:23:07] last year was a was a rainy year. We

[3:23:10] didn't have to run the sprinkler where

[3:23:12] the year before when the water

[3:23:13] restrictions were very first put into

[3:23:15] place." Yeah. What did that compare to?

[3:23:17] So that but we when we have that to look

[3:23:19] at and if you don't and I think that's

[3:23:22] what the city staff was was trying to

[3:23:25] help provide so that you could get that picture.

[3:23:29] So I know that that's important. I do

[3:23:31] also when we're talking about looking at

[3:23:33] the system, I do think we need to look

[3:23:36] to make sure that between the electronic

[3:23:39] reads and the utility billing that there

[3:23:43] isn't something. I mean, I know that

[3:23:46] there's there has been times where a new

[3:23:48] meter gets put in and the truncation for

[3:23:50] some reason didn't get switched

[3:23:52] correctly in it. But then those are your

[3:23:54] oneoffs, not a systemwide. but just to

[3:23:57] make sure that we're we're checking in

[3:23:59] and doing our due diligence for you.

[3:24:02] >> So, council, I guess we're at a point. I

[3:24:04] think we've discussed this pretty well.

[3:24:06] Um, I'm going to put it out to you. Are

[3:24:10] you in agreement? Would you like to see

[3:24:13] an independent investigation happen for

[3:24:15] the system? Okay.

[3:24:16] >> Yes.

[3:24:18] >> All right. Do we need a motion for that?

[3:24:20] >> No. Well, we'll continue.

[3:24:23] >> I'm just just asking what we need.

[3:24:27] and then look for

[3:24:28] >> something.

[3:24:30] >> Yep. And put it out for bid. So, that's

[3:24:32] where we are tonight, folks. I'm sorry

[3:24:33] we can't answer all your questions, but

[3:24:35] that is where we are tonight. We are

[3:24:37] going to work on it and we will continue

[3:24:39] to communicate. We can even put updates

[3:24:42] out um if there's something in between

[3:24:44] meetings. We the city can put out an

[3:24:47] update if there's something that they

[3:24:49] have to share. Um otherwise, it would

[3:24:51] potentially be brought up at the next

[3:24:53] council meeting. So,

[3:24:55] >> are we good? Thank you all so much. And

[3:24:57] you know what? Thank you for being

[3:24:58] respectful. Thank you for

[3:25:01] >> sharing what you needed to share. And

[3:25:03] even though you're angry, that you

[3:25:05] really did it respectfully. And I'm

[3:25:07] really, really thankful for all of you.

[3:25:15] » Well, it will eventually. It's going to

[3:25:16] take some time. Um, you know, we are

[3:25:19] going to resolve it tomorrow, but it's

[3:25:21] like what? Well, let let's talk about

[3:25:25] the Matt. I think one of the things you

[3:25:27] said was um or maybe mention to me, but

[3:25:32] everybody checking your meter, which I

[3:25:35] do

[3:25:36] >> regularly, but checking your meter at

[3:25:38] the first of the month. I know I know

[3:25:40] we've talked about it's kind of we're

[3:25:42] into it.

[3:25:44] >> Make sure you make sure you check that.

[3:25:46] Um, I've honestly I've experienced this

[3:25:49] a lot of times is like every every year

[3:25:53] I get my July water bill and I'm

[3:25:55] shutting off the sprinklers because I we

[3:25:57] could we used to have a well when we

[3:25:59] lived before and it was wonderful. But

[3:26:01] so I I get it. But we are we are very

[3:26:06] much looking to try to find what's

[3:26:08] wrong. And I guess I would request,

[3:26:11] could we go ahead and put something out

[3:26:12] to the community on the Facebook page or

[3:26:14] even the website that says if you have

[3:26:18] not reported a high water bill for July,

[3:26:21] please contact city hall.

[3:26:24] I would really appreciate that. So we

[3:26:26] can try to and you know if you have

[3:26:27] neighbors around you or you haven't

[3:26:29] reported um you don't necessarily have

[3:26:31] to come into city hall. You could just

[3:26:33] call, right? Okay. So if if it's easier

[3:26:35] just to call please so we can get as

[3:26:38] many of these high bills recorded as

[3:26:39] possible and get your neighbors to do

[3:26:41] the same thing so we can get a better

[3:26:43] picture of what is happening. So thank

[3:26:46] you everybody

[3:26:47] >> and if anybody hears anything else about

[3:26:51] spikes or spike issues or

[3:26:53] >> or valves

[3:26:53] >> or valve blowing please let Thomas let

[3:26:57] city know let Thomas know as soon as

[3:26:59] possible because that might that might

[3:27:01] be part of the puzzle.

[3:27:05] Okay, we have a little bit of city

[3:27:06] business to finish. And if you guys want

[3:27:07] to take off, please feel free to go.

[3:27:09] Have a wonderful evening. What?

[3:27:11] >> You don't want to hang out? Oh my gosh.

[3:27:14] >> Thank you for enduring this far.

[3:27:15] >> Thank you.

[3:27:16] >> Okay, we have three pretty quick last

[3:27:19] items.

[3:27:22] » Whoops.

[3:27:25] >> And if you could do me a favor, if you

[3:27:26] guys want to chat, just chat outside so

[3:27:28] we can finish up, please.

[3:27:32] Okay. So, we're going to move on to the

[3:27:34] next item. PEC inspection contract.

[3:27:36] Young industrial fourth water and sewer.

[3:27:40] >> Council, this is an inspection agreement

[3:27:44] for the Young Industrial Fourth, which

[3:27:46] is the SEAL lab project.

[3:27:50] The cost of this will be paid through

[3:27:52] the temp notes that were issued for that

[3:27:54] project.

[3:27:57] It's the city's assurance that things

[3:27:59] are being installed correctly when it

[3:28:01] comes to the water.

[3:28:07] » Any questions, council? If not, I would

[3:28:09] entertain a motion.

[3:28:12] >> I move we approve the PEC inspection

[3:28:14] agreement as presented and authorize the

[3:28:16] mayor to sign.

[3:28:18] >> Second motion by council member

[3:28:20] Headstrom, second by council member

[3:28:21] Baldridge. All in favor?

[3:28:23] >> I. Motion passes 300.

[3:28:26] Moving on to budget hearing publication

[3:28:28] authorization.

[3:28:30] >> Council, like we discussed at the budget workshop, uh we need to

[3:28:38] publish the budget hearing for September

[3:28:41] 10th as part of the budget process. This

[3:28:43] is not adopting the budget. This is just

[3:28:45] publishing

[3:28:54] So I guess this is also a discussion if

[3:28:56] you're only doing one or if you're also

[3:28:58] adding in the revenue neutral rate

[3:29:00] hearing.

[3:29:01] >> Yeah.

[3:29:04] The direction we felt we were given like

[3:29:12] » budget which we've been working on and

[3:29:14] that's

[3:29:16] lower our mill levy by 1.5.

[3:29:20] Okay.

[3:29:21] >> So, is it what what was the 4%?

[3:29:25] >> Well, I guess I should

[3:29:28] >> Is it Well, no.

[3:29:29] >> Taking it down to

[3:29:32] >> Excuse me.

[3:29:33] >> You said it was a 4.14 said it was a

[3:29:35] 4.1% reduction and you're saying it's a

[3:29:38] 1% reduction.

[3:29:39] >> Or do you mean one mil?

[3:29:41] >> One. Okay. You said percent.

[3:29:44] >> 1.5. Okay. I That's where

[3:29:46] >> mills.

[3:29:48] >> Okay. So down 1.5 mills to okay

[3:29:51] >> revenue neutral rate.

[3:29:52] >> Yes. Okay. But I just it's like wait a

[3:29:55] minute. Okay. I'm hearing things.

[3:29:59] Okay. So 1.5

[3:30:02] mills.

[3:30:07] I mean I know personally

[3:30:09] >> I was in favor of the revenue neutral

[3:30:11] rate.

[3:30:12] Um,

[3:30:15] I was concerned when I found out there's

[3:30:17] could be a potential of sales tax

[3:30:19] difference and that's why we asked for

[3:30:21] that information and and we don't have

[3:30:25] it.

[3:30:25] >> It's not available.

[3:30:26] >> So,

[3:30:28] um,

[3:30:31] I don't know. It's up to council

[3:30:34] >> whether we want to consider just leaving

[3:30:36] the flat for now and having a revenue

[3:30:38] neutral rate hearing giving us time to

[3:30:41] make sure we have that information or

[3:30:43] >> I'm I'm not opposed to it but anything

[3:30:46] everything is said

[3:30:49] again it's forecasting so we don't know

[3:30:52] what exactly happen

[3:30:55] >> I can't I didn't hear anything that

[3:30:57] would make me change my position to

[3:31:00] raising

[3:31:02] I'm pretty comfortable with

[3:31:04] >> Okay.

[3:31:06] >> If if you absolutely want that. I I

[3:31:09] guess I'm just gonna say I I just

[3:31:12] >> I would have liked to have known what

[3:31:15] that what that amount looks like when we're looking at the sales tax

[3:31:20] because our sales tax is a healthy

[3:31:23] portion

[3:31:25] um of what we get because we're looking

[3:31:28] at a total of between the um the state

[3:31:32] sales tax, the local sales tax because

[3:31:34] I'm not going to throw the liquor tax

[3:31:35] into that, but we're looking at right

[3:31:38] Now that's just under a million dollars.

[3:32:04] from what he said.

[3:32:14] It's like someone like said is it is it

[3:32:16] gonna I I'm just I don't know if it if

[3:32:20] it drops the same percentage because

[3:32:22] when I looked up the formula, it's going

[3:32:25] to be our assess. It's it's a it is a

[3:32:28] ratio of of what the county um property

[3:32:31] tax is and what ours is. And so if ours

[3:32:35] is

[3:32:35] >> you said theirs is 400,000 and they

[3:32:38] would be a very small percentage of

[3:32:40] that.

[3:32:40] >> Yeah, their their overall loss was going

[3:32:42] to be projected to be around 600,000 a

[3:32:44] little over 600,000.

[3:32:46] >> So So we're just a percent of that 600

[3:32:49] 600,000. So

[3:32:51] >> going forward, I would like us to find

[3:32:52] out what that formula is so that in the

[3:32:55] future that if we do this again in the

[3:32:58] future that it's it's something that we

[3:33:00] actually can forecast pretty well to be

[3:33:03] like, okay, we know that we have the

[3:33:05] possibility of losing this much money in

[3:33:08] sales tax because this is what we're

[3:33:09] choosing to do.

[3:33:10] >> And I mean,

[3:33:13] yeah, I'm like I said, I was I'm all for

[3:33:16] the revenue neutral rate. I voted

[3:33:19] against increasing it to begin with. So

[3:33:22] >> y

[3:33:22] >> I just was asking the questions because

[3:33:25] at that point in time I didn't know that

[3:33:26] the sales tax would be imp impacted or

[3:33:29] to what degree. So

[3:33:32] >> I'm fine and if we can live with it.

[3:33:35] >> So we're just doing the one hearing

[3:33:37] then. Is that correct?

[3:33:40] >> Okay. Okay. So do we just need a motion

[3:33:43] to approve that to authorize

[3:33:44] publication?

[3:33:46] >> Okay.

[3:33:49] I move we approve the budget hearing

[3:33:51] publication authorization

[3:33:54] >> as presented.

[3:33:56] >> Presented.

[3:33:58] >> Oh, did you second it? Okay.

[3:34:00] >> Motion by council member Headstrom,

[3:34:02] second by council member Baldridge. All

[3:34:03] in favor?

[3:34:04] >> I. Motion passes 30.

[3:34:07] >> Okay. Moving on to item DLKM. Voting

[3:34:10] delegate.

[3:34:13] >> Mayor and council. This was the mayor

[3:34:15] had asked us to put this on at the last

[3:34:16] minute. I've looked into it just a

[3:34:18] little bit, uh, discussed it internally

[3:34:20] with staff. Um, I guess what I would ask until we get a

[3:34:25] little more information on this. We have

[3:34:28] council designate that person.

[3:34:34] » Do we have enough time to still make the

[3:34:36] deadline?

[3:34:36] >> The deadline.

[3:34:38] >> Okay. Okay. Yeah. I don't know if anyone

[3:34:41] else I mean you have to attend the

[3:34:42] conference in order to be a delegate for

[3:34:44] your city.

[3:34:46] >> So I don't know if anybody else is

[3:34:47] registered to go.

[3:34:48] >> No, I just And was this a this was a

[3:34:51] last minute ad?

[3:34:52] >> It was a last minute ad.

[3:34:53] >> Okay. Because I was going to say yeah, I

[3:34:54] didn't have any information on it. So So

[3:34:56] that our city has representation in

[3:34:58] voting on policy.

[3:34:59] >> So okay. So do you need a motion to

[3:35:03] table it or is this tabled?

[3:35:06] >> Okay. So a motion to table. I make a

[3:35:09] motion that we table the LKM voting

[3:35:11] delegate.

[3:35:13] >> Motion by council member Morland, second

[3:35:15] by council member Hedstrom. All in

[3:35:17] favor?

[3:35:18] >> I.

[3:35:18] >> Motion passes 30. Moving on to council

[3:35:21] reports, discussion and requests. Um I

[3:35:25] brought up several things with the CIP

[3:35:27] last time and

[3:35:31] I guess I feel like there's no

[3:35:32] clarification on how we're actually

[3:35:36] moving forward with this. There's been

[3:35:37] no discussion with council whether we're

[3:35:40] leaving it as is. Are we going to work

[3:35:42] on this document? Um because I mean I

[3:35:46] heard

[3:35:49] Thomas share that he doesn't really need

[3:35:52] his items in here until he finds out

[3:35:56] what's happening with the public works

[3:35:57] facility. So, um, and then there was

[3:36:01] questions about

[3:36:04] a sidewalk master plan, which is in for

[3:36:06] next year. We already have a sidewalk

[3:36:10] plan with the arts and business district

[3:36:12] as well as the corridor improvements.

[3:36:14] So, there's there's just questions about

[3:36:19] what should be included.

[3:36:22] >> I think the important thing to remember

[3:36:23] with the

[3:36:27] use it

[3:36:35] We do anything toast.

[3:36:56] Well, it usually you'll utilize the CIP

[3:36:59] for determining what plans you're going

[3:37:03] to pursue. So,

[3:37:06] it's it is a living document, but at the

[3:37:08] same time, you are identifying specific

[3:37:12] projects or

[3:37:14] equipment that you are planning, that's

[3:37:18] why this is all planned out to purchase

[3:37:21] at certain times. So I guess for me with

[3:37:25] the corridor improvement and the

[3:37:27] sidewalk master plan to me

[3:37:30] that would be like arts and business

[3:37:32] district phase two. I mean it wouldn't

[3:37:34] be broken. We don't need a sidewalk

[3:37:36] master plan. We already have one and all

[3:37:39] we that would be are we going to change

[3:37:40] it to monies for PEC to design the next

[3:37:44] phase. So, I'm saying to me this does

[3:37:47] not represent necessarily what we are

[3:37:50] looking at for our future planning for

[3:37:54] capital improvement for all of these

[3:37:55] items.

[3:37:55] >> What would you like us to adjust?

[3:38:00] » I guess I can state it again. Um, the

[3:38:03] corridor improvement and the sidewalk

[3:38:04] master plan, that's the arts and

[3:38:06] business district phase two

[3:38:10] and that would be pursuing WMO funding

[3:38:12] grants. But I also asked a question

[3:38:14] earlier in the budget workshop. We don't

[3:38:17] have an idea yet of when the first phase

[3:38:21] is going to be paid. When are we going

[3:38:23] to start paying for it and when is the

[3:38:25] forecast of when it's going to be paid

[3:38:26] off? Yes, we're going to start working

[3:38:28] potentially on phase two,

[3:38:31] but we have to know when monies are

[3:38:36] going to be available and how to

[3:38:37] forecast when that's feasible with the

[3:38:40] 1% sales tax. So, and I know that for

[3:38:43] not I don't know or we don't know what

[3:38:47] is our current balance.

[3:38:49] >> No, with our with our 1% what is the

[3:38:51] balance in that fund?

[3:38:55] » I don't know.

[3:38:57] >> Okay. Well, it just

[3:38:59] >> provide that.

[3:39:04] » Okay. I I

[3:39:08] » was always more than we expected.

[3:39:15] » That's why it's like can we pay it off

[3:39:16] like in three years? I mean is that

[3:39:17] going to be a fast payoff if you know

[3:39:20] the sales tax keeps coming in and it's

[3:39:21] like if that's the case it's like well

[3:39:23] we need to start thinking about the next

[3:39:25] phase then.

[3:39:26] >> I mean I see the the sales tax that we

[3:39:31] receive

[3:39:33] but Is it split out?

[3:39:34] >> No, that's not that's that's

[3:39:36] >> that's what I keep asking for is to

[3:39:37] split out. So that's that is not

[3:39:45] because it is um it is a separate fund

[3:39:50] >> right he's he's giving I just he has

[3:39:54] shared with it separately

[3:39:55] >> remember is that it's always comes in

[3:39:57] higher

[3:39:57] >> right

[3:39:58] >> well and that's where

[3:39:59] >> and the reason I'm bringing that up is

[3:40:02] because we know that that the temporary

[3:40:05] the temp note for that comes due this

[3:40:07] year.

[3:40:08] >> So, how much of that, and I know that's

[3:40:11] going to be a discussion for a later

[3:40:12] date, but it's also a discussion while

[3:40:14] we're looking at budget, is how much of

[3:40:16] that are we going to spend

[3:40:19] on reducing the amount of the bond

[3:40:22] overall?

[3:40:23] >> So, right now, we're saying, okay, this

[3:40:25] is how much the bond is going to cost,

[3:40:26] but how much and how much can we do? We

[3:40:28] do need to look at that. And so that's

[3:40:30] where when I looked through here, I did

[3:40:32] not find

[3:40:34] the the line that shows the city portion

[3:40:38] of the sales tax only. I mean, like I

[3:40:41] said, the sales tax, the general sales

[3:40:43] tax on the front,

[3:40:46] that is not the 1% collected by the

[3:40:49] city.

[3:40:57] » And without

[3:41:02] » well and and

[3:41:04] >> so I and I guess that's where I

[3:41:07] >> that's where I'm struggling

[3:41:08] >> when we're looking forward to it and and

[3:41:10] knowing that's part of our CIP that I

[3:41:13] mean and it's not mentioned on the CIP

[3:41:16] document that sales tax is even a part

[3:41:18] of where that funding is going to come

[3:41:19] from.

[3:41:20] >> Great. Um, the other thing that I would

[3:41:23] ask is when we have I know that we set

[3:41:26] the parks by policy, but just like we

[3:41:29] estimate, I would like to see an

[3:41:31] estimate of how much annual goes in

[3:41:32] there just like we have the annual for

[3:41:35] the highway. So we have an amount

[3:41:37] because I mean

[3:41:40] I I I just I don't know how much that

[3:41:43] and and I understand that this because

[3:41:45] this is a living document that is just

[3:41:47] going to be an estimate

[3:41:48] >> but it would be good to see an estimate

[3:41:50] there for the spending instead of just

[3:41:52] well that's policy and I know it's going

[3:41:54] to change based on the mill late mill

[3:41:56] rate because it's based on the mill rate

[3:41:59] but to have basically a general idea.

[3:42:02] Um,

[3:42:03] and then I'm I know that we have that

[3:42:07] patrol vehicle

[3:42:09] in there for 2027

[3:42:11] and we had talked about as a council

[3:42:15] >> not having a replacement vehicle until

[3:42:17] 2028.

[3:42:19] >> And I

[3:42:30] Okay.

[3:42:42] » So, how do we make

[3:42:46] » this?

[3:42:48] >> And do we have a That's why we have

[3:42:50] equipment reserve,

[3:42:51] >> right? Does the police department have

[3:42:52] an an equipment reserve

[3:42:54] >> that they're building?

[3:42:57] So, how do we

[3:42:58] >> take it off?

[3:43:00] >> No, I I'm just asking how are we

[3:43:02] building how is that fund being built?

[3:43:05] Because like the next time we say that

[3:43:06] there's not going to be another one

[3:43:07] until 2031.

[3:43:10] >> So,

[3:43:12] >> well, it was supposed to be

[3:43:13] >> it says it said 28 and 31.

[3:43:16] >> 28 and 31

[3:43:16] >> and they're changing it to 27 and 31.

[3:43:23] » I guess so. I'm asking how are we so

[3:43:26] public works has built an equipment fund

[3:43:27] for many years. So how how are we

[3:43:31] building an equipment reserve fund then

[3:43:34] for the police department and what is

[3:43:37] being budgeted annually to go in there?

[3:43:40] That's a question that I have.

[3:43:43] >> Okay.

[3:43:47] that. So, and then when we talked about

[3:43:49] the public works, I mean, Thomas said

[3:43:51] that if if we're going to do an

[3:43:54] assessment,

[3:43:56] he wouldn't be considering considering

[3:43:57] any equipment until a decision is like

[3:44:01] made after the assessment is done for

[3:44:05] the utilities. So, it's like or that for

[3:44:08] the potential facility. And so it's like

[3:44:12] I mean I guess I heard him that he's

[3:44:14] sort of just in a pause until

[3:44:18] that occurs. So he's not planning to

[3:44:20] move forward with purchasing any

[3:44:21] equipment at this time. He even talked

[3:44:23] about being able to rent something in

[3:44:26] the meantime. So I guess this has to go

[3:44:29] to the planning commission. I just want

[3:44:31] to make sure we are presenting to the

[3:44:32] planning commission for review and

[3:44:35] approval prior to it coming back to the

[3:44:37] council and that it reflects what the

[3:44:40] council's actually looking

[3:44:43] >> at.

[3:44:45] Thomas

[3:44:52] figured out what he

[3:44:57] » took all the all of them off.

[3:44:59] >> Well, the multi-use machine.

[3:45:02] >> Oh, because he talked about even the

[3:45:03] brine. I thought he said he wouldn't do

[3:45:05] anything until

[3:45:09] >> Yeah.

[3:45:10] >> Okay.

[3:45:13] And then I think we just have

[3:45:16] generalities regarding the sewer and

[3:45:18] water system improvements. It's like

[3:45:23] are are we going to seek PEC to help us

[3:45:28] work on some stage information so that

[3:45:29] we have some idea of general costs

[3:45:32] >> per potential expansion of the sewer and

[3:45:35] water systems? Like I I just feel like

[3:45:38] those are general numbers and it they're

[3:45:40] going to be bonded out and it's like we

[3:45:42] don't really have anything specific that

[3:45:43] we're talking about.

[3:45:44] >> So is and is that sewer improvement? So

[3:45:47] that is not um sewer expansion that is

[3:45:50] only sewer.

[3:45:51] >> It says increased capacity.

[3:45:53] >> So that well I I know but is that

[3:45:56] >> increasing the capacity for the

[3:45:58] infrastructure we currently have

[3:46:00] >> or expanding the the infrastructure for

[3:46:04] new development?

[3:46:11] » Okay.

[3:46:18] We need we need to have a plan

[3:46:21] what we're looking

[3:46:23] >> okay

[3:46:25] >> so we're not saving towards that like we

[3:46:30] are we like we do with the with the um

[3:46:33] >> street

[3:46:33] >> the streets

[3:46:35] because the $50,000 so like on woodlon

[3:46:38] overlay

[3:46:40] that's $50,000 per year that we're

[3:46:43] putting into it. So, I would ask that if

[3:46:46] it's something that we are putting in

[3:46:48] annually to build that fund that we

[3:46:51] noted on here that way. So, like like I

[3:46:53] said, for instance, that one, yeah,

[3:46:55] we're putting $50,000 per year every

[3:46:58] year because we know we're going to have it coming and we want something

[3:47:01] saved up. Um, and the the same with the

[3:47:04] park that that is how much is and I know

[3:47:06] it says annual at the beginning, but

[3:47:08] like the woodlon overlay, yes, we expect

[3:47:11] to do it in 2031, but we are still

[3:47:14] putting in $50,000 per year until that

[3:47:16] time and we have been for a while.

[3:47:23] » I guess how did you determine the

[3:47:25] numbers for sewer and water?

[3:47:29] >> I guess that's a question I have.

[3:47:33] Okay.

[3:47:36] And so

[3:47:38] what is your thinking of Yeah. like not

[3:47:41] trying to start building a fund up for

[3:47:43] that? I know that had been talked about

[3:47:44] a few years ago. Um that that was when a

[3:47:48] large mill increase was proposed.

[3:47:54] » Okay.

[3:47:58] Okay.

[3:48:01] So, is there a way that we can put in

[3:48:03] here that yes, we that because we expect

[3:48:06] a regular replacement for the vehicle to

[3:48:09] be in 2028,

[3:48:13] but still have something for a

[3:48:16] contingency

[3:48:17] because I feel like if we look at this

[3:48:19] and it says, hey, we're getting a new

[3:48:21] police car in 2027,

[3:48:24] then we're like, okay, when do we get

[3:48:25] the police car in 2027? And that's

[3:48:28] actually part of our plan. that said I

[3:48:29] mean that we are replacing a vehicle in

[3:48:32] 2027.

[3:48:34] I would almost um

[3:48:37] like wanted to say only in case of an

[3:48:40] emergency. I mean I don't know. I just I

[3:48:42] feel like we are not we as a council

[3:48:45] said that 2028 was the next time we

[3:48:47] wanted to replace a vehicle. But yes, if

[3:48:49] something happens and we have to come up

[3:48:52] with it, I don't want it to not be

[3:48:54] available, right? But I don't want it to

[3:48:56] feel like, oh yes, this is the plan and

[3:48:58] we're going to because that's not what

[3:49:00] we intended the plan to be.

[3:49:03] >> We would have to approve it anyway.

[3:49:09] » We haven't had to approve the

[3:49:12] >> CIP for the sake of this discussion. We

[3:49:14] can change that

[3:49:18] >> have it at 28 knowing that there's the

[3:49:19] it will be money is there

[3:49:22] >> and if something happens. Okay, that

[3:49:24] like I said I would Yeah, that

[3:49:27] >> one.

[3:49:28] >> We're planning on buying one in 28 and

[3:49:31] hopefully nothing happens that we need

[3:49:34] to but

[3:49:36] >> Okay. So,

[3:49:40] » anything else council?

[3:49:43] So this has to go

[3:49:46] >> the planning commission prior. So

[3:49:49] >> two days before the

[3:49:51] >> but well those those changes will be on

[3:49:53] what they see.

[3:49:55] >> Okay. Thank you.

[3:49:58] >> Okay.

[3:49:59] >> If there is nothing else I would you

[3:50:03] have anything else?

[3:50:04] >> I thought I had a question.

[3:50:08] » Um I'm I'm questioned now. I'll ask when

[3:50:11] I come back up to it. Okay. I would then

[3:50:13] entertain a motion to adjurnn. Please. I

[3:50:16] make a motion to adjurnn. Second.

[3:50:19] >> Motion by council member Baldridge,

[3:50:21] second by council member Hedstrom. All

[3:50:22] in favor?

[3:50:23] >> I.

[3:50:25] >> Motion passes 300. We are adjourned.

[3:50:27] Thank you everyone. Have a lovely

[3:50:29] evening. Thank you all for coming.

[3:51:12] Today's not looking like it's

[3:51:49] Yes, it's

[3:51:57] » well that's where so I will say a a

[3:52:00] toilet flapper

[3:52:05] bring

[3:52:10] my keys.

[3:52:11] >> No, not a I mean, so a flapper being

[3:52:14] left open though.

[3:52:17] >> It is. It's going straight down and

[3:52:20] >> Yeah. And if it's like so like we have a

[3:52:23] we have the bathroom that Chris and I

[3:52:24] use.

August 27, 2026 | Kechi City Council Budget Workshop & Regular Meeting

Transcript