[0:00] for the budget workshop. Today is August the 5th, 2026. It's 5:00 p.m.

[0:07] I'm going to call the role. Please answer.

[0:10] Councilman Summer >> here.

[0:13] » Councilman Summerland >> here.

[0:15] » Councilman Pard >> here.

[0:19] Prom Brad >> here.

[0:21] » Councilman Robinson >> here.

[0:24] » Everyone is here. So, we do have a quorum. We're going to stand up and say

[0:28] the pledge of allegiance to the United States and to the flag of Texas.

[0:35] I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic

[0:41] for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[0:47] justice for all.

[0:51] flag. I aliance to the Texas one state under God one and indivisible.

[1:00] » If you want to remain standing, we're going to have a short invocation by

[1:03] Councilman Robinson. Just >> bow your heads, please, and join me in.

[1:08] Father, thank you so much for giving us the privilege of serving our city. I

[1:13] pray, Father, that as we discuss the budget this evening, make

[1:18] decisions and craft policies that we will always keep in mind that we're

[1:23] doing this for the people and for their best interests.

[1:27] Remind us, Father, that we are in this position not to be served, but to serve.

[1:35] Father, bless our staff, our city, our residents, and protect us

[1:43] all. We ask this in Jesus name. Amen. >> Amen.

[1:52] » All right, we're going to move on to item number five, citizens forum.

[1:57] Citizens are invited to speak for three minutes on matters related to city

[2:02] government that relate to agenda or non-aggenda items. Speakers are asked to

[2:07] approach the podium and give their name and address before sharing their

[2:10] comments. I understand that no one has signed up.

[2:15] Is that correct?

[2:18] » So, we're going to move on to [snorts] item number six. At this time, I'm going

[2:22] to turn it over to our financial director.

[2:26] and council. Um I sent out um kind of a memo last week about the tax rate. So

[2:32] this item is going to discuss the 2026 property tax rate um calculations. Um so

[2:38] I do have it on the screen as well. So this year's um our current tax rate for

[2:42] the 25 um tax year was 1821 per 100 valuation.

[2:48] This year's tax worksheet. >> Yeah, pull that up, Lisa, please.

[2:53] I'm used to it being so far away on my dis. Um the no new revenue rate for this

[2:59] year is 1849. So there is increase from last year's tax rate. Um but it will

[3:05] yield the same revenue to the city as last year. The voter approval rate is

[3:10] 1919 per 100. Um and our certified taxable value is about 1.7 uh billion

[3:17] right now. So um also in this chart you'll see I kind of put where our

[3:22] current rate is so you can see how the share breakout would be between the INS

[3:26] which is our debt service requirement and our general fund share which is our

[3:30] maintenance and operation the M share. Um I did it for the current rate the

[3:34] infu revenue rate and the um voter approval rate.

[3:40] So, um, in order to bring in the same or very close of the same revenue as last

[3:46] year, you would have to go with the 1849 rate. Um,

[3:52] and that is and then on the second page here,

[3:58] » I broke it out. So, um, this year our median, so truth and taxation laws

[4:03] require the tax assessor to assign a median house rate to kind of use as a

[4:08] taxpayer impact u value. Um, so this year the medium median homestead taxable

[4:15] value is about $437,000 per home. Obviously, that's not every

[4:20] home. That's just medium. Um, there's houses will be less, there's clearly

[4:23] houses that are more. Um, so if we went with the no new revenue rate of 1849,

[4:31] um, it would be less than it's a 0.28 cent increase from

[4:39] 1821. Um, it's about 1.5% increase and it would increase that median um, home

[4:46] valuation tax bill about $36 or 4.7%. Um, if you went with the V, it would be

[4:54] a .0098 cent increase or 5.4%. Um, and it would be an additional on

[5:02] average $66 or an 8.9% increase to the medium uh median homestead value uh tax

[5:10] bill. Because of if you go to the 1919, it

[5:14] would trigger an election. you the highest you could technically go is 1

[5:18] 1918 [clears throat] without having a tax election which I

[5:22] would not recommend wanting to have because it can fail. And also um there's

[5:28] a lot of timing that goes into consideration on that as well.

[5:32] So and this just kind of shows you that

[5:36] same information that I typed up up there.

[5:40] Is there any questions about the tax rate or calculations with it? Mr. Mayor

[5:46] and Lisa, I think we we should proceed at this point at the no new revenue

[5:50] rate, but I'd also like to postpone number two to the end of the meeting.

[5:56] » We are. Yeah. >> Yeah.

[5:57] » All right. >> Just about to to the item.

[6:05] [clears throat] >> So, the differential in revenue that

[6:07] you're kind of looking at is um should have done that. Apologies.

[6:15] I got too many mouses up here. >> From the current rate to the 1919, it's

[6:20] only 167,000. >> Okay.

[6:22] » 176. >> Thank you, Charlie. [laughter]

[6:25] » So, yeah, because of last year, we had a lot of unused increment, which is

[6:29] basically truth and taxation laws allow you if you persistently go below your

[6:33] NNR or at the NNR and you forgo that increase that you could have done, you

[6:38] can bank that differential. And last year it did help us because of the

[6:43] police pay parody larger bump we had to make. So we did kind of exhaust a lot of

[6:48] that unused increment because it every it's based on the last three years. So

[6:52] like if you don't use all of it, it falls off and then it just keeps

[6:55] bringing that bottom dollar um bottom amount up and up. So that's why the

[7:01] difference between the N&R and the V is a lot smaller this year than it was last

[7:05] year. So we're good for the INS

[7:09] » for the interest and syncing fund >> for every for all of it. Yeah. For the

[7:13] rate

[7:20] and basically in the budget document, I just put the same revenue as last year

[7:25] into our M um portion, the general fund. I did rework it with the 1849 number.

[7:31] It's about $4,000 short than what we brought in last year because it does

[7:34] it's all rounding and you know there's going to be some discrepancies. So um so

[7:39] if you go with the eight the sorry there's a lot of numbers here 1849

[7:45] you would bring in about 1.4 for sheets

[7:50] » 1,400 into the general fund whereas it's about 4,000 less than what I had from

[7:55] last year.

[8:19] And the question might come up of why is the NNR higher than our tax rate this

[8:23] year, right? Um because ideally you should have new improvement that kind of

[8:28] you know offsets that. However, um the 8th 9th legislation had House Bill

[8:34] number nine which basically exempted any personal business property that did not

[8:40] exceed 125,000. It exempted it from the tax rules. So,

[8:44] it did remove some value from us and then we didn't have enough new

[8:47] improvement value cuz everything is based on as January 1. So, um like with

[8:54] the wood loss, it's based on how regressed they are as January 1. So

[8:57] obviously their tax bill is not going to be the same thing that like next year

[9:00] their full value should show up. So it's just basically wherever something is as

[9:06] so >> so you're saying that HP9 I just want

[9:10] some more clarification on that. Is that like their the business had to be valued

[9:15] above that before they were taxed or they're able to take that off?

[9:20] » No. So if they So like I I use car dealerships because that's usually who

[9:24] we see the most on some of these tax rules. We don't really have any, but for

[9:28] you know, so each vehicle they keep on their lot, they have to pay a property

[9:32] tax on because it's a business type property. So if any of those cars don't

[9:36] exceed $125,000 in valuation, they can exempt it off of

[9:40] the [snorts] role, if that makes sense. Yeah.

[9:45] Or and another thing like um a lot of companies that lease um like uh Sunb

[9:50] Belt would be a good one. They have to pay property tax on their equipment

[9:52] because they lease and they it's a business property. So yeah.

[9:57] » Yeah. So they would get to exempt whatever. Yeah.

[10:02] » That's their inventory. >> Yeah.

[10:05] » So I I couldn't get clarification if it was an aggregate or not. And like and

[10:09] I'll be honest, uh when I talked to Miss McCrae, this has been the hardest year

[10:13] for her with the tax worksheets because of all the changes that happened in the

[10:16] 80th 9th and then we know there's going to be a lot coming up in the 90th that

[10:20] starts in January. Um, so she said this was a very because legislation will put

[10:27] a law out, but it's a lot of gray. So, everyone's trying to figure out with the

[10:32] direction from the comproller, how does this calculate out, you know, the

[10:35] comproller is the one that issues out the notices of calculations and

[10:38] everything. So, um, there it was a little tricky this year with the new

[10:44] laws. So, >> I think it's going to get trickier going

[10:46] forward. >> Oh, it will.

[10:47] » I think it is. >> Yeah. I think that was one of my biggest

[10:50] concerns when I got on council was the one thing that we just don't pay

[10:55] attention to is what happens at the state level and how that affects us.

[10:59] » And here's the very first >> tickling of this coming in.

[11:02] » Last legislation, the mayor and myself and Kathy had worked on several letters

[11:07] in um protest of the expenditure cap and revenue cap. Um those were the biggest

[11:12] bills that were really going to be detrimental.

[11:14] » Um and we worked we we sent those to Mr. Toe's office. Um, Craden off it. We sent

[11:21] them everywhere I think at one point just to in protest

[11:24] of it and I actually wrote did out calculations to show how it would hurt

[11:29] our city particularly. >> Yeah.

[11:31] » And all the indications so far are that they will tackle this again.

[11:37] » Yeah. In the coming election they are they are going to

[11:40] » and there's got to be an some type of an amendment [clears throat] for cities her

[11:44] size you know. >> Yeah.

[11:48] invite it to a TML summit legislation um session at the end of the month um me

[11:52] and 140 other delegates from the state and they really loaded it with financial

[11:56] professionals this time because the biggest priority is property tax and

[12:00] expenditure caps so um TML um invited me out to work on some policy proposals um

[12:08] so I think it out of our area it's me and Jersey villages finance director are

[12:12] going um so we have representation for our area so we'll try to push especially

[12:18] for um I think the Houston metro area is a very unique area. Um we you know we

[12:24] say this all the time, we're a small city, but we're not like you're on the

[12:30] one of the biggest freeways of the the country outside of the fourth largest

[12:34] city in the country. You're you're basically in Houston's back door. So,

[12:40] um, they don't take that in consideration when they look at

[12:44] population growth because a lot of the expenditure caps were based on CPI and

[12:49] population growth, which we're we're fairly built out. So, our population

[12:54] growth isn't going to be so that puts us at a negative. They don't take in

[12:59] consideration your daily population. They just consider your homestead

[13:04] population. But with the Portoino, with all these other shopping centers, I

[13:08] think Sam, what was it? 50,000 you anticipated visitors a day

[13:13] » about. >> Let's do it.

[13:15] » So our population grows from just shy of 5,000 to 50,000 pretty

[13:22] quickly, >> right? Every day.

[13:23] » Yeah. >> That's not counting 141,000

[13:27] for anybody. So that's what a lot of the legislation won't take in consideration

[13:30] is, you know, and then also that, you know, smaller cities that are out in

[13:34] West Texas that don't have a sales tax base.

[13:37] » Yeah. >> It it doesn't take consideration those

[13:39] as well. >> I think that there were more cities like

[13:42] that. >> Yeah.

[13:43] » That are not like us that depend on retail.

[13:46] » We saw that at that that breakout meeting that

[13:49] » we did. So, there's a lot of moving parts, but

[13:53] this year will be highly focused on um property tax reform and most likely

[13:57] expenditure caps and revenue caps. And yeah, it's it's going to be interesting,

[14:02] but we'll we'll tackle it as we can. Um so, that's pretty much in a nutshell the

[14:08] um Oh, and I did do a little breakout just to kind of show you um so like our

[14:16] this proposed tax rule. Um you can see that residential is about 30% of the

[14:22] total taxable value. Commercial is about 70%.

[14:26] Um and of the the total that would be paid to the city about just shy of a

[14:31] million would be from um the residential side and then the remainder is from the

[14:36] commercial. So

[14:41] and this is based on a 95% complete certified rule. There's 5% underneath

[14:45] the protest still.

[14:50] So,

[14:54] and even if we move on from this agenda item, we're going to have a another one

[14:58] at the end of it discussed in this. So, if we want to brainstorm more that one,

[15:01] we can as we go through the budget. But if no one has any questions, I can

[15:06] move on if you would like. Right. Uh like I said earlier uh we're going to

[15:11] move item number seven. We're going to discuss it at the end of uh after item

[15:17] number 10. So we're going to move on to item number eight

[15:22] uh budget discussion. >> So the first budget discussion um is

[15:26] going to be the general fund. Um as I just showed you, there was a little bit

[15:29] differential in the sales tax revenue based on the NNR. Um I I've been playing

[15:34] with the sales tax numbers. Um, I will probably have an update for that soon.

[15:41] Um, and then

[15:46] so that's all I have for revenues. Um, typically in the past what we've done is

[15:51] gone through each department again, but since we already did that in workshop, I

[15:54] don't know if there was the only department we did not talk about was

[15:57] CVB, but for the general fund, was there any other department that we wanted to

[16:02] talk about again or was there any follow-up [snorts] questions?

[16:06] They say pretty stagnant all those budgets other than the personnel costs

[16:11] obviously. >> My own my only question did we have did

[16:17] you utilize zerobased budgeting or did you use prior year's budget and just

[16:22] build on top of that and assume everything's going to happen that

[16:26] happened prior year. >> So

[16:28] » without looking at cutting as much as you can.

[16:31] So with the expenditure side, each department does their own budgeting and

[16:34] then turns it into myself. Um we do base it off of a zero base. Um the majority

[16:41] of our in these departments of our revenue I mean our expenditures sorry

[16:46] revenues is going to be personnel costs. So those are automatically just a phase

[16:50] in. Um but on the on the um operational other than the personnel costs typically

[16:57] a lot of those are aligned with contracts um that are already set or

[17:02] costs of increase. And then there are going to be your standard boilerplate um

[17:07] you know accounts like office supplies and operating you know that are pretty

[17:10] much stagnant and they just carry over year over year because they're as

[17:14] needed. Um, I think that's might be answering your question

[17:19] » kind of. >> Okay.

[17:21] » Really, >> but other departments can chime in on

[17:22] how they develop their budgets. I, you know, finance is pretty much a barebones

[17:27] budget. Ours is based on what we have to pay for audit,

[17:30] » the appraisal share, you know, it's pretty standard. Um, but other

[17:36] departments have a lot more expenses than I do. So if anyone wants to if

[17:40] there's any particular one you want to look at

[17:41] » if I have a department I would think to me we'd lay out all the expenses I had

[17:46] this year back and say do I have to have all of this do I have to spend all of

[17:51] that again next year or can I trim this can I trim that and go line by line and

[17:56] trim as much as I can especially if we've been coming under it

[18:00] traditionally. >> Yes. So what I do typically in front so

[18:04] in in the budget book in front of each department I have the summary change

[18:09] sheets um so it'll show you if there's been decreases like admin had a decrease

[18:14] to the newsletter because they're going with impact magazine so they found a

[18:17] better price cost for that right >> where's this one at

[18:20] » it's in the it's in the budget document it's on it's before each department

[18:24] » um so um [clears throat] so there's those things um you you know,

[18:33] they removed several dues and memberships cuz they don't want to

[18:36] participate in them. They decreased their infant supplies. So, I do this

[18:41] just so it's very transparent. So, exactly what changed. Um, so you can see

[18:45] the the thought method for each department, what decreased, what

[18:49] increased, stuff like that. >> So, each department had had to come

[18:53] forth and say, "This is what I budgeted for travel and entertainment last year.

[19:00] I'm cutting as much as I can to save the city in these areas. So, my new budget

[19:06] for travel and entertainment next year will be this amount. Did every

[19:11] department do that? Um, so every department kind of budgets a travel and

[19:15] training a little bit differently. Some do it by position, some do it as a group

[19:19] total. Like PD has so many employees. Sorry, I keep forgetting the microphone

[19:24] because I keep trying to make contact eye contact. So like with police

[19:28] department, they have so many employees and doesn't mean they're all going to

[19:30] travel and train that year. So they do more of like a grouping cost for their

[19:34] non-admin side, so for patrol. But then other departments um same thing with

[19:39] rural department. All the public works guys aren't going to do training every

[19:43] year. Or if they do, it's going to be smaller trainins, not like a big um

[19:48] overnight training. So there's some of the departments that don't want to

[19:52] commit. They put more of like a dollar amount that should not exceed than

[19:56] [clears throat] to allocate it per person.

[20:00] » I think that's what >> that's not zerobased budgeting.

[20:03] » Yeah. >> No, I think it needs to be more

[20:06] specific. If I'm going to send this this uh this person to a entry level training

[20:13] program, uh uh next year I'm not going to have that person do the same thing

[20:18] because he's already trained. So I can cut that part that particular training

[20:22] program out next year. It would be better to go by department and by person

[20:28] and make each of those lines a determination for each line trying to

[20:31] save as much as you can cutting as much. An example is the um the money that we

[20:38] spend for the city for um events of going through. I know Charlie is going

[20:45] through and looking at each one say do I have to have this amount for this for

[20:48] each of these events? Can I trim this one or trim that one instead of just

[20:53] plugging in the same thing we've always done? And Charlie has come up with some

[20:58] suggestions because I said we're gonna have to cut, you know, we need to really

[21:01] save as much as we can. Where can that be? And he's already got some ideas on

[21:05] where we can trim and and save um some money.

[21:09] » You're talking about civic club. >> Civic club.

[21:11] » Okay. And it would be nice if every department

[21:15] took had that attitude and looked at it and said, "What can I do to save?"

[21:19] Because we don't want to take taxes up if we can help it. And if we have to

[21:22] take it up as little as we [clears throat] can possibly take.

[21:27] So it it looks like I mean if I'm reading Mr. Please correct me. It looks

[21:32] like our total um yearly new recurring cost is

[21:36] somewhere around 800 grand >> for the whole budget or just for general

[21:41] fund >> police by parody municipal court net

[21:43] impact bulk trash equipment replacement contributions.

[21:46] » Oh, for the special consideration items. >> Um I could double check. I haven't I

[21:50] don't know that off the top of my head. >> And then even if we go up to 0.19 as

[21:54] high as we can without having a tax selection,

[21:58] » what what is that going to give us? an extra 165 grand

[22:01] » if you go up to the VA just below the B. Yes. About that.

[22:04] » So what does that do to us? I mean I mean we're going to fall short.

[22:09] » Well, so these items that are in here are just for consideration. They're not

[22:12] going to be all approved. We know this. This is just to bring to you. Also, some

[22:16] of these items and special consideration items are non-recurring items. So we can

[22:20] use available cash to pay for those instead of putting them against your tax

[22:23] rate because they're onetime purchases. Typically, when you look at a tax rate

[22:27] or a budget, your operating budget should be clearly for the things that

[22:30] reoccur every year, you know, so personnel, um, contract costs, stuff

[22:35] like that. Um, like landscaping, um, trying to think of some other contracts

[22:38] like that, like on the water sewer side, they have tons of contracts they have to

[22:41] do every year like sledge halls and, um, you know, chemical maintenance and stuff

[22:46] like that. But for the for other things that are like in that special

[22:49] consideration, some of those studies, some of those projects, those can be um

[22:52] allocated out available cash because they're not recurring in nature. So

[22:56] typically your operating budget should be only those things that recur every

[23:00] year. >> Thank you for that explanation. So So

[23:02] the biggest one is equipment replacement contributions. That's a onetime deal.

[23:05] » Well, so we do that every year, but because it's a capital assetbased

[23:08] program, we use cash to fund that. It just al it just restricts it for

[23:12] replacement so that it puts a hold on it so that it can't be used for anything

[23:16] else basically. >> Thank you so much.

[23:18] » Yeah, no problem. >> Well, the biggest things are personnel

[23:23] expenses >> and contractual

[23:27] expenses. That's really where a lot of this is

[23:31] placed. >> Yes.

[23:32] » You know, >> so in the general fund especially, it's

[23:34] a government servicesbased budget. So government services is typically um you

[23:39] know police department, fire, it's a big it's a big personnel budget. You know

[23:45] water sewer does it and CBB those are kind of opposite. They have more

[23:50] contracts and stuff like that um operational costs than they do personnel

[23:54] costs. So um but you know water sewer is technically a business type activity. Um

[24:00] it's that's more of like as if you're running a business than it is a

[24:05] government service. But because it is the city controls our water system, it

[24:09] helps with economies of scale on a lot of our costs and administrative costs

[24:13] because you don't have to hire other people because they share like they

[24:17] share finance people, you know. So you don't you say that's why our water rates

[24:20] can be subsidized lower because you do have that economies of scale with the

[24:24] city controlling it. But it is to be ran kind of like a business and that's why

[24:28] it stands on its own most of the time. U we made that we uh a couple council

[24:33] cycles before made it very um [clears throat]

[24:36] that this should be you know in the past it's been kind of supplemented with

[24:40] general fund and that's not usually good practice. So a couple councils ago they

[24:45] determined this should be a self-sufficient fund and that's how

[24:48] we've been treating it since then. Was

[24:55] there any particular other questions about the general fund expenditures

[24:59] or if there's any department we want to hone in on?

[25:02] » We you just want to talk about the whole general fund, not department.

[25:06] » We we talked about it before, but if there's any changes that

[25:09] » Well, I just don't want to breeze over the

[25:13] whole thing. >> No, you're good. I could do a quick

[25:15] rundown if you want me um to >> Oh, no. I'm not trying to make you do

[25:18] anything, you know. >> I'm here, you know. So,

[25:23] » we had we had to budget a week when the first

[25:27] » Yeah. >> the first thing, you know what I mean?

[25:29] And I'm going to pick on Ernest here. He didn't have time to really look at this.

[25:34] You know what I mean? >> Nor did I. Nor did

[25:38] » I don't think any of us. >> Yeah.

[25:39] » No, really. So, I don't want to prolong the meeting. I mean, just for the sake

[25:45] of prolonging the meeting, I do want to talk talk about some of these things.

[25:49] » So, I'll just go over the summary change sheets for each department because

[25:53] that's usually easier to kind of hone in on see what happened.

[25:56] » Um, so for like the administration department, they had a a 3.99% increase

[26:02] to their operating budget. Um, and the majority of that is going to be

[26:08] obviously personnel cost, right? like we've been kind of um explaining um

[26:15] there was other some other small changes. Um there is let me make while

[26:21] we're already on here [clears throat] um so last year we had moved all the

[26:26] medical expenses for each department back into the department's budgets from

[26:30] the non-depart budget where it's lived prior to me starting here. So, um, so

[26:39] there was, um, some increases to the rates for insurance. This year, I do put

[26:44] in a small percent increase into the proposed budget as a hypothetical just

[26:48] to have an earmark on it. Um, so this year I had anticipated medical would go

[26:53] up 6%, it did co go in as a weighted 11%. So I added those to the summary

[26:59] change sheet on the screen for each department. So it's additional 5%. And

[27:03] then but our dental insurance that I anticipated a 5% increase.

[27:08] » Excuse me. Could you make that bigger? >> Oh yeah, sorry.

[27:11] » Please. >> I [clears throat]

[27:14] came to see you couldn't read it on the screen anymore.

[27:19] » So, um, but dental had a decrease. So, I had put in there a 5% increase and it

[27:24] came in at three. So, there's a 2% differential that went back into the

[27:28] budget.

[27:33] So, the net change to the insurance is just for the general fund. Obviously,

[27:36] there's water, sewer, and CBB, their own funds, but it nets out to be about a

[27:41] $45,47

[27:44] differential on the [clears throat] insurance rates from what was budgeted

[27:47] to what was to the actual. Also,

[27:53] there were some changes on some of the plan like um plan plan um sorry tiers.

[27:58] So what the employee elects if it's an employee only employee and family

[28:03] employee and spouse employee and child. So there were some changes within

[28:07] [snorts] the departments with different levels of uh needed coverage.

[28:14] » So I'm just looking at it and and I don't have the whole thing but let we're

[28:20] talking about admin. Okay. So their salaries and wages went up 2.4% 4% to

[28:26] the two and the $9,000. >> Mhm.

[28:29] » The uh dental accidental dispersement went up 9.42%.

[28:35] » Well, that one changed because there was a this is based on the proposed.

[28:38] » I understand. But the effect of the whole budget that we're talking about

[28:42] because we're up we are going to get to the bottom line on this, you know.

[28:48] » Well, that went up then the group insurance is up 23%.

[28:53] um to the tune of $72,491. Okay. And those are all

[29:01] figures that were on the >> Yeah.

[29:04] » Sheet. FICA's up 1.7. So when you take all of

[29:10] these, that's where you get your print 4%

[29:14] » personnel expenses >> right here. The seven. It's hard to

[29:18] » sit here and just look at all this and not really know where all the little

[29:22] pieces are in there, you know. >> And

[29:27] » so total personnel cost for like admin went up just shy of 24,000 total for all

[29:32] those >> department uh category 61.

[29:34] » There you go. >> Mhm.

[29:35] » And it's on this screen here. Yeah. >> And see going forward this is a

[29:41] recurring every year. >> Yeah.

[29:45] What would what did uh it go up last year?

[29:49] » Um personnel went up 64,000 last year.

[29:55] » What was the percentage? >> Uh

[29:59] had like that recent column just a total of that.

[30:03] » It's on an Excel so it's a word. So I got [laughter] Yeah. PDF.

[30:08] » No, I was just looking at the >> 3%.

[30:10] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[30:11] » So 3% for you. So last year 3% this year 3.9

[30:20] » does that fall into does some of that fall into the step?

[30:25] » Yes. So we factor in so um my software basically calculates the personnel

[30:31] increase for each person based on their their anniversary date. So it's it's

[30:36] pretty true to what their pay will be. Historically, we've had to do kind of

[30:41] Excelbased, but our software allows us to pin it down to the actual step uh

[30:45] raise month so it gets a true accurate personnel cost.

[30:51] » So, realistically for all the different departments, we can look at we can plan

[30:56] a 3% increase pretty much per year.

[31:01] » I would say three to four based on what the insurance um rates come in at every

[31:05] year. That's the one that's a variable that we just don't know until usually

[31:08] the end of July. unfortunately

[31:16] is the um probably part of what I'm I guess I'm looking at I know there are

[31:21] some costs that are associated with it the insurance uh those types of things

[31:25] are a lot of that's out of our hand. The

[31:29] only thing we can do is shop around for a better

[31:32] place unless we have restrictions on that. um is um what I'm really looking

[31:38] to get at is you know what were the percentages of the uh revenue uh for

[31:45] salaries um you know where did that fall and what

[31:50] was that last year compared to what it is

[31:54] » oh for the sal just the salaries general ledger I mean account um

[32:00] » had to be a whole lot last year because we had the the the police parity But

[32:05] that wouldn't >> not for admin

[32:07] » me admin. >> But oh yeah, that's totally okay.

[32:11] » So for last year we budgeted So the year

[32:17] that we're in So you're talking about 25, right? So not the year we're in

[32:21] right now. Yeah. [laughter] >> Sorry. So la for 25 we budgeted for

[32:26] 139,000 and it came in at 432,000. >> So it came in pretty close.

[32:36] Is there a way to extrapolate what 24 then was over for 25? Or you can do the

[32:41] 25 to 26? >> No, we haven't agreed on that one yet.

[32:45] » Are you talking budget versus actual or you talking about actual over actual

[32:49] like >> actual over?

[32:50] » Oh, okay. I'm sorry. >> Yeah, I'm didn't clarify.

[32:54] » No, you're good. And the year-to- date numbers in this budget document are as

[32:57] of like the end of June. So obviously we've had another month of expenditure

[33:02] so we're a little far behind. Um >> but just doing an you do you have

[33:08] available 25 to 26 of what the wages wage difference or increase was from 25

[33:15] to 26. >> Uh yeah so they did have a personnel

[33:20] move so and we had someone leave that was more tenure. So there's a little bit

[33:24] that's the other thing you have to consider is people move in people

[33:27] leaving stuff like that. So, actually the actual from 25

[33:33] or the the budget from 25 to the budget on this year was only a $1,000

[33:37] difference for salaries and wages because there was a lot of movement

[33:40] between >> Yeah.

[33:42] » Yeah. >> That's the hard part about salaries and

[33:44] wages because it's not always going to be there's always some variables that

[33:47] happen. >> Um

[33:49] » Yeah. Okay. >> So, Joe, to your point,

[33:53] admin went up 2.4%. finance went up three 3%. Okay. Um

[34:05] there's 14. Okay. pretty even on uh

[34:23] you'll see the salary salary and wages on police went up uh just 4% this time

[34:31] [clears throat] was 22% last year because of the parody

[34:35] but um You can you you can find all of that.

[34:41] You know what I mean? It's but there's so much more in category 61

[34:46] [clears throat] which is personal expenses. The whole thing that's what

[34:50] Lisa is talking about there group insurance pretty close to what you said

[34:55] three three to four%. >> Yes.

[34:58] » So if you just look at salary wages and like taxes you're usually at three and

[35:01] then everything else factors in. So you're about 3%

[35:04] » and a lot of that's out of your control. >> Yeah. So like workman's comp is also

[35:08] considered in there and that so TML how they do workman's comp it's based on

[35:12] obviously the exposure rate for a police officer is going to be a lot higher than

[35:16] for me right because I'm just at a desk. Um so every year they the poll has to do

[35:20] their uh actuarian calculations and they figure out what's the appropriate

[35:25] exposure rates for position >> and then we get those numbers and then I

[35:29] calculate it against the payrolls. So >> yeah, I guess what I'm just trying to

[35:34] and 100% understand >> all of the variations that

[35:38] » Yeah. >> an employee is isn't just uh I got a

[35:41] paycheck. >> Yes.

[35:42] » It's all the other factors. >> It's all the other factors that go into

[35:45] it and just you know we need to be aware of that those so many of that if we want

[35:51] to provide those benefits to our employees which we do

[35:55] » um those are control factors that are out of our hands. Uh and really what I

[36:02] was trying to get to uh kind of goes back to

[36:06] what is the actual set take-home for them because a lot of people benefits

[36:10] are benefits. Sometimes they >> some people understand the importance of

[36:16] it's great to have benefits. >> Some people just want the dollar amount.

[36:18] » Somebody just want the dollar amount. Typically your younger employees look at

[36:22] more dollar amount what you're going to bring home and then your mid to older

[36:26] tenure employees look at >> retirement health insurance stuff like

[36:30] that. >> It's completely different thing. And so

[36:32] my only point and I don't want to labor it any longer was just to try to get to

[36:37] what are our manageables >> and are we doing the best program for

[36:44] doing that? And um and I I know that I've brought it [cough] up in as an

[36:49] agenda item, you know, [snorts] talking about do we reconsider our process? Do

[36:56] we take a look at our process? Do we need to make some changes? Do we need to

[37:00] modify it? Um are we not paying enough? Um you know, are we not, you know, as we

[37:06] just give someone a, you know, a a programmed raise and honestly their

[37:13] value is greater than that? We don't want to lose that knowledge or there are

[37:17] some that and I haven't seen any of these people that just okay I don't have

[37:23] to perform for it you know I'm just going to get it it's just going to come

[37:27] year after year after year and so you know this is just going into that

[37:32] questioning do we need to and I know there's an agenda item that Sam's

[37:37] brought on >> yes I was going to allude to that

[37:39] » yeah you're in luck >> yeah [laughter]

[37:41] so I know that we're but I wanted to just

[37:45] » you know talk about it because these are considerations we can consider the

[37:49] things we can change >> can't necessarily

[37:53] » you know affect the other items if we want [snorts] to provide them to our

[37:57] employees >> at the end of the day you look at it

[37:59] it's just the cost of doing business >> and it's up to us to manage that

[38:03] » exactly 100%

[38:08] been there done that >> and see our revenue is dependent um

[38:14] sales tax which we can't control at all. Who shops over here?

[38:17] » Yeah. >> Or if they go away or COVID comes along

[38:21] or whatever which devastated us several years ago.

[38:24] » Yeah. And the way we have it so right now is our taxes is such a high

[38:28] dependency upon them performing terrific.

[38:31] » But then you said Joe and look at Oakidge and everybody around you and

[38:35] we're well below them. You know what I mean?

[38:37] » Yeah. So >> yeah, every year we try to,

[38:42] you know, the department heads know if they ask me

[38:46] for a big dollar amount, I always go, where are the alternates? Because I like

[38:50] to challenge them to find other cost saving initiatives as well. Um, but

[38:55] sometimes you can't you can't avoid it. Um, but like Charlie said, we do rely on

[39:00] one of the most volatile type of revenues,

[39:04] » you know, in government. Um, so that is something that you always have to be

[39:10] cognizant of and we've done a really good job at keeping the tax rate.

[39:13] » Yes, we have. >> Low.

[39:14] » Even with our expenditures going up with the addit need for um, you know, fire

[39:20] and police and those are typically your big budgets. Um everything else kind of

[39:26] falls in line um as support budgets, but uh we've done a really good job at

[39:31] keeping our tax rate low, >> huge for many years and and that's good.

[39:36] I'm not >> Yeah.

[39:37] » Yeah. >> It's just that that I want council to

[39:42] look at the whole budget at the end. We're able to do that, you know, with

[39:46] what we can control, but you know, sometimes we just can't because it's

[39:50] based on the economy and, you know, pandemic or you other factors that are

[39:56] well beyond our control >> and you never know what's going to come

[39:58] down from legislation for unfunded mandates. You just never know.

[40:02] » That's the greatest >> in my that's the landmines right now

[40:06] » in my opinion for what can come down from the state. We cannot plan that.

[40:11] » And I just don't understand how how that would be supplemented,

[40:16] » how a cut in property taxes would would be supplemented other than raising sales

[40:21] tax >> and you have to have the sales tax

[40:24] » the state six and a quarter% and we're too.

[40:26] » Yeah. >> Of which a half a half a percent is MDB.

[40:29] » Yeah. what I'm saying at at the state level.

[40:31] » You know, I mean, what other >> state they would have to either a

[40:33] portion of their claim back to the pecking order of um other for the

[40:38] remainder or they would have to increase their consumption tax, right? Well, to

[40:44] to something for consideration, um, Councilman Pard talking about zerobased

[40:50] budgeting, there there are things and different variables that we have that

[40:55] it's beyond our control as far as, you know, fuel prices. We we can't control

[41:01] that. So, so zerobased budgeting for that is very difficult because we don't

[41:06] know what to calculate. We have to go off of estimations. is we have to go off

[41:10] of what we previously used before and then guess on what the fuel prices are

[41:18] going to average for the next year. Uh like this last year, we missed it

[41:22] because we we estimated based upon uh $3.30. Well, that increase went up

[41:30] higher than that. So th those are variables that that are beyond our

[41:34] control, but we do our best to to budget based upon just the knowledge we have at

[41:39] the time. Um zerobased budgeting it's it's you can do

[41:45] that on on many of the items, but there are some items that you just you can't

[41:49] [snorts] do that on. Um you just have to go based upon some

[41:55] [clears throat] guesstimations.

[41:58] Unfortunately, >> what he's trying to say is there's no

[42:01] contingency, Jim. There's no >> Yeah, we try not to bug any

[42:05] » things. So, we call it available cash. Okay, that's the term that

[42:11] if we run over, we just get it from available cash. Well, you what's already

[42:17] encumbered out, we don't know. And I've asked her, she's done a great job

[42:21] addressing that. You know what I mean? So,

[42:25] even though this says there's $3,000 in available cash, not the 180, but just

[42:30] there's 3,000, it's really 900,000, >> right?

[42:37] » I know it [laughter] is. >> You look at your last monthly report and

[42:41] that's what you had. >> Oh, the It's a three million. Yeah, the

[42:44] three. Yeah, the unassigned unassigned. Sorry.

[42:48] » But in other words, encumbered. We said we're on Tam Road. We're a million nine.

[42:52] ND said they're going to put in there. You know what I mean? And that's all

[42:56] even their money's in this pool. So that's what I'm concerned about. Why I

[43:02] start looking at all of this and feel the pinch that we Yes, we want police

[43:06] officers. Yes, we want to pay it. But, you know, it's going to come to a point

[43:12] where >> we're between a rock and a hard place,

[43:15] » right? and it's going to come and it's close,

[43:19] you know, and so do we raise taxes because it's all other people's money.

[43:23] All of our money is what I call opium. Opium, other people's money. And

[43:28] [clears throat]

[43:31] and we can't control it. So, we just have to be and we've done a great job,

[43:34] all of us, staff, all of us have done a great job of managing this and we're in

[43:42] good shape. I just want to keep it. >> I do too. And I I just want to make sure

[43:46] that we're going blindbody and the things that we can control that

[43:51] we could say, "Look, I can cut here and I can cut here and I'm going to I'm

[43:54] going to cut to the bone if I [snorts] can until it hurts it hurts the city."

[43:59] And then that's how how much I would budget on areas like gas and things that

[44:03] are totally uncontrollable. Yeah, you got to take a a swag. But um but the

[44:09] ones that we can control to cut it as hard as much as we can. And there's

[44:14] several items I think that every I think all every one of those lines have to be

[44:19] looked at by each department head and and reviewed

[44:23] by Sam, you know, and and that's what we do when

[44:28] before it goes to Lisa for review. We're going I'm meeting with each department.

[44:32] We're going through line by line items. we're looking at, okay, we can do

[44:36] without this year, we can reduce on that year. And you see that in her summaries

[44:40] up there where you see some of the uh the red where we've cut in certain

[44:45] areas. And so that is happening on on that linear level, that granular level.

[44:52] » And I believe if you go back to so my first budget cycle that I took over was

[44:56] the 2018 fiscal year. Um and that was when um Joseph was interim um before

[45:03] Kathy came back from Bassrop and we took a red we took a red pen to that budget

[45:10] me and Joseph and we it was a it was a lot of push back but we

[45:15] » we got rid of a lot of contingency that was built into the budget. Um, so and

[45:21] and I can look in historically, but I think year-over-year our budget other

[45:25] than personnel costs like police pay, parody, we have not had that great of a

[45:30] percent increase. Um, because that one year, man, I don't even know what we

[45:34] cut, but we cut a lot. >> Yeah. And I'll just add, and you can

[45:38] look at this in the budget book itself. I just grabbed public works for the past

[45:41] couple years where we had full data. Um so in the 2024

[45:46] 25 fiscal year the public works came within

[45:51] you know 1% of what was budgeted is what was spent like 99% was spent. That's

[45:56] that's incredibly tight. That's a little too tight.

[45:59] » That's a little too close for comfort. The year prior to that came they came

[46:02] with an 8% which is a little more comfortable. So um I think that just

[46:08] shows there's not a whole lot of fluff there. It's pretty trim because we're

[46:12] we're getting really close to that number, which, you know, it's it's kind

[46:16] of a crystal ball to to to try to guess what you're gonna expend, but and you

[46:21] can look at that across the other departments. Um, you know, you're not

[46:24] seeing a surplus of 20 30% where the budget wasn't used. Um, so it's just

[46:30] trying to hit that number. >> And our three largest bud budgets in the

[46:33] general fund is going to be police, fire, public works. Those are I think

[46:37] more than probably three4s of the budget if I had to guess off the top of my

[46:42] head. And then again, public works is another

[46:45] » that's another thing that's affected by external factors,

[46:49] » you know, your chemicals and >> yeah, the price of equipment and

[46:54] » repairs, >> the tariffs that we have to deal with

[46:57] from suppliers and >> so that's heavily impacted by that.

[47:01] » And you know, in the public works specifically, you know, there's funding

[47:04] for road repairs, sidewalk repairs, and you just don't know where those numbers

[47:08] are going to hit. You don't know what potholes are going to be filled. So

[47:11] » you try your best. you kind of look at what it's been and try to base it off of

[47:15] of that. So you you're hitting a number. You know, every time we go through our

[47:20] budget, we look at, okay, what have our expenses been last year? And let's use

[47:24] that as a gauge um to see where we're going to hit. We know where maybe we uh

[47:30] we saw that the price of asphalt patch and co concrete patch has been going up.

[47:35] Okay, we got to bump that number up because we know it's going to cost more

[47:38] and we're going to be patching about the same amount.

[47:43] And on the other hand, we've been pretty lucky the last couple of years that we

[47:46] have saved on some of these projected expenses and have gotten money uh money

[47:51] back >> on some of the capital projects. Some of

[47:53] the capital projects expense control is >> staff works great

[47:59] spending what they budget is just [clears throat]

[48:05] we intend to spend this amount if you go over

[48:10] you have to have available cash like this

[48:14] and by state law I have to bal I have to I have to adopt a propos uh a balanced

[48:19] budget so we have to make sure all the revenues supersede the expenditures.

[48:25] » If you guys will just give me a little bit of forbearance and I'm still trying

[48:29] to get my feet on these >> um I've got a very complic sort of a

[48:33] complicated question and part of it is for CBB and part of it is for um our

[48:39] reserve policy >> and

[48:41] » we can so we can go um [clears throat] if you want to discuss that during that

[48:46] time >> I think that's coming up

[48:49] » it's it's all kind of intertwined. >> Okay, that's fine. These aren't separate

[48:52] questions. >> Okay. Okay.

[48:54] » All right. So, these are separate question. So, my [clears throat]

[48:56] question is this. Um I I know this isn't a possible question, but I'm going to

[49:01] ask anyway. Is there a way for you guys to predict general fund returns on CVB

[49:06] expenditures? I know that we beds and beds is is our our phrase of of choice,

[49:11] but I'm sorry to ask this question. I know

[49:15] it's difficult to to predict, but um are you guys able to look into the future

[49:19] and say, you know, the our activities are probably going to um generate so

[49:24] much money for the general fund >> like an economic impact?

[49:27] » Yeah. Yeah. >> And John does a good job with the state

[49:30] on that. >> Yeah. I mean, one of the things that we

[49:34] try doing like when we do annual report is highlighting we can't capture

[49:39] everything. One of the things that are um different I guess in our traditional

[49:45] business is in this city and many of you have known this and heard me talk about

[49:50] this and it's the differences of not having traditional destination drivers.

[49:56] So when we don't have a convention center, we don't have major sporting

[50:02] fields that we're hosting tournaments on, we don't do major festivals that are

[50:07] bringing people from all over. um those things that when you're looking at in a

[50:13] traditional CVB operation you have sales teams you have all sorts of people

[50:18] selling booking and all those things generate economic impact which come in

[50:23] so what we do is we've built our own unique program we know what we're doing

[50:29] we know how many rooms we are booking for our hotels we know and and and I you

[50:34] know so room nights and rooms we've advanced a long way and tracking all

[50:39] that based on our marketing programs that we do that we know with some

[50:44] certainty. um the impact beyond that um and the dependencies on the economy. You

[50:52] know, one of the things you also have to understand just like y'all are talking

[50:55] here on a good year on a bad year is whether it's general sales tax or it's

[51:03] our tourism production. You have to realize when the economy is bad or if

[51:10] it's going down and people are getting stressed because they don't know if they

[51:15] can pay their bills, buy medicine, put food on the table, or any of those types

[51:20] of things. When that happens, travel is discretionary. It's the first

[51:26] to get cut. And I don't have to look at you in simple economics. If you're

[51:30] having a hard time, are you going to go out and be eating out as much or taking

[51:35] your kids to entertainment venues or going on trips at hotels or do you go to

[51:42] stay family or stations at home and find other things to do? People adjust. So

[51:47] those are the other kind of things but we definitely have from our bureau and

[51:52] what we're doing and what we're putting out um what we've been producing and you

[51:57] know part of that annual report that we've talked about over the last

[52:02] three years we've we've been almost on a three-year run of year-over-year

[52:07] increases and all-time historic highs. So, and as as we're doing that, you

[52:13] know, like I said, we can we can look at that.

[52:17] » You guys have done a great job, and I'm not questioning that. It was it was kind

[52:20] of I mean, and maybe when we get to that section, I'll re I'll restate

[52:23] undifferent question. And I guess what I was trying to get to is this. We have a

[52:28] a budget challenge it looks like in front of us. And um my question was and

[52:33] maybe it's because main experience is if we could revise our um if we could

[52:40] revise our budget surplus policy enough [clears throat] help bridge based on

[52:46] projected potential from CVB driving funds into but that sounds like a pretty

[52:51] broad question for you. >> Are you are you trying to So

[52:54] [clears throat] I'm understanding you and I'm trying to just to be sure I'm

[52:57] understanding the question. Are you trying to say if we know what we're

[53:02] producing in room tax, hotel room nights or that put a correlation to that to we

[53:08] already Lisa gets controller reports from the state controller and we know

[53:12] what we're producing in sales tax. So are you just trying to see if we could

[53:17] come up with a model algorithm for determining if there's a correlation

[53:22] » in a sense and if we could project activities to future income only because

[53:26] we we I think we have We have the statutory right to have a budget

[53:31] stabilization. We could we could generate a budget

[53:34] stabilization if we adjusted our our um surplus policy. I think we can do that

[53:39] maybe one time. I don't know how many times we can do that. But

[53:41] [clears throat] um and you're right, we we have to be

[53:45] aware of of the swings in the economy. And I apologize I I'll switch this to

[53:49] the CBD discussion later. I was just curious because it's a complicated

[53:52] thing. Um, I don't want to I mean I mean our we provide services,

[54:00] we provide protection, we provide continuity for all everyone who lives in

[54:05] our in our community and and that's why we're here. Um, I don't like hearing

[54:10] we're going to cut to the bone until the city hurts because the city is everybody

[54:13] that we're trying to take care of, right? I know that whoever said that

[54:15] meant that those of us are here, right? I mean, we're here to take care of our

[54:20] of our neighbors. >> And so, um, and and

[54:25] you know, Ron brought this up when he was when he was in this position. We

[54:29] have a a huge surplus. I don't want to raid it. Um, but if we can do something,

[54:34] if it's if this is challenging enough that a budget stabilization could be

[54:39] considered, I'm just throwing that out there for just a sec.

[54:43] » Okay, that's it. >> Let's Yeah, we'll let's discuss it. uh

[54:47] in the next uh the next hour. Uh is everyone anyone ready for a break? Uh

[54:54] don't I want to take 10-minute breaks every hour and I want to catch this at

[54:59] [laughter] 4 hours till 9:00. We'll see if we can get to that goal.

[55:05] » So would you let's take a 10 minute break. Come back at uh it's 5:55

[55:12] 6:05. Okay.

[55:27] I forgot the cover.

[55:34] » I know. I'm getting my hearing aid.

[55:47] I'd

[56:00] Step glass.

[56:27] Yeah.

[56:36] » Right.

[56:44] sister.

[57:04] » Yeah.

[57:09] Anyway,

[57:15] I stepped up

[57:33] everywhere. She's like freaking out.

[57:38] I was sticking in my foot.

[58:07] Just slap me around.

[58:23] Hearing

[58:38] so better.

[58:44] » But did I understand your question too? I wasn't sure if I understood your

[58:48] question. Are you trying to tryation a little bit?

[59:22] Well, no. A few things on that as I know it,

[59:30] but the legis that's a legislative issue at the state level. It's not here. We

[59:35] have our current, you know, Texas twostep as you were in there

[59:41] and these are the uses of which I thought you were talking about our

[59:47] reserves.

[59:52] » Okay, that's misunderstanding. Ours have to be used for those enumerated whatever

[59:57] they are.

[1:00:12] move everything around

[1:00:17] the event.

[1:00:29] We're stretched.

[1:00:33] » Yes.

[1:00:37] » I know. I I I walked in 10 minutes before it started. So, you're good. I

[1:00:42] was working the um

[1:00:47] the

[1:00:50] what I guess I'm saying is to do what are you talking about? Our

[1:01:09] largest hotel is full service. It's under 5,000 ft of space.

[1:01:17] » It can do about 2 225 in

[1:01:22] in a contest. Many convention. That's probably the

[1:01:27] best hotel.

[1:01:32] And so my point on that is that is our biggest and the only

[1:01:59] » and then we some of those rooms about00.

[1:02:11] » Oh yeah. Yeah.

[1:02:26] » But we don't have that enables us to be large.

[1:02:33] So, so it's like when we our small medium

[1:02:39] because one and only

[1:02:45] it doesn't matter how nice it is like over it's 70 people

[1:02:52] in a meeting. So, you're not generating big bucks

[1:02:58] on 70 people

[1:03:04] that's going to be that would be

[1:03:12] negative on >> no off that and you only get 7%

[1:03:21] on the city side for that. So whatever their state is

[1:03:26] that

[1:03:34] » he

[1:03:44] finally go

[1:04:04] Yeah.

[1:04:40] reconvene uh this uh session. Uh we have a lot to

[1:04:45] cover. So, let's uh let's try to move on a little quicker.

[1:04:51] Um Lisa, will you continue? >> Yes. So, as we were talking and it, you

[1:04:57] know, the light went off on my brain on the first couple pages of the budget

[1:05:01] document, I do do a whole general fund proposed budget breakout. Um, and it

[1:05:06] shows you the variance percentage variance of revenue and expenses year

[1:05:12] over from the fiscal year prior to this fiscal year budget. So if you look at

[1:05:17] it, the overall operating revenue for the city was about 3.6% increase

[1:05:23] overall. So um, and the one department that had a

[1:05:28] negative budget impact was technology. Good job, Chris.

[1:05:34] Um, and that's with a lot of contract negotiations. Chris's budget is mainly

[1:05:38] contracts. [laughter] >> I beat on him this year.

[1:05:41] » And he does and he covers all technology contracts. So, it's not just his, it's

[1:05:46] CB's contracts, water sewers contracts, and then they pay back the general fund

[1:05:50] for that contribution. But it just puts all that into one budget for management.

[1:05:55] » I even fired a couple of them, too. So, >> yeah. So, um, so you'll see the like

[1:06:00] parks had a bigger increase, but they need more landscaping. Um, we added the

[1:06:06] veterans park, electricity, stuff like that. Um, which electricity is also a

[1:06:10] variable that we have to try to gauge every year. Um, my department did have a

[1:06:16] larger increase, but it's because of the MCAD share, um, and our audit share. So

[1:06:21] that's out of my control because it's based on the the MCAD share is based on

[1:06:24] their p their budget and our valuation. It's a percentage of their total budget.

[1:06:30] So those are things I can't really control. Um fire services that's based

[1:06:35] on um they take 10 they're based on a 10-centent of our valuation. So if you

[1:06:40] really think about our tax rate, a lot of that goes towards your fire coverage.

[1:06:45] Um so and then other departments, not much. usually about four% or less

[1:06:53] and then when you weigh it it's about 3.67%.

[1:06:57] » Police department was 2.2 just saying

[1:07:03] » that's just operational. That doesn't include your transfer placement. If we

[1:07:06] did factor that in that would be a [laughter] higher uh but um because Taho

[1:07:11] are >> yeah these are just for straight

[1:07:14] operational costs like M.

[1:07:20] Are there any any additional questions on uh item sub item A?

[1:07:26] If not, let's move on to sub item B. Um, okay. So, moving on from the general

[1:07:32] fund. So, just just a quick summary. The only changes I really have to budget

[1:07:38] from what was proposed to now is the medical um contributions and the revenue

[1:07:44] side is the property tax differential. Um, moving on to CBB. Um,

[1:07:52] you'll see they do have the insurance differential as well like the other

[1:07:56] general fund had. And because John, um, we we postponed his discussion from the

[1:08:02] first budget meeting because we wanted the advisory board to meet first prior

[1:08:07] to discussing their budget if there was any proposals or requests. Um and then

[1:08:11] the second meeting, John was at um a conference, so we had to um postpone his

[1:08:17] till today. So um pretty much the CBB budget has not um there's been some new

[1:08:24] programs. I apologize. I need to get to that page.

[1:08:37] Um so yes their um budget went up for personnel of course um contractual

[1:08:44] services went about up about 12,600 supplies went up about 700 other

[1:08:50] operating costs went up about 9,000 um and um

[1:08:57] so if you look at their summary of change um sheet year-over-year I'll

[1:09:02] you'll see there's from like that negative 25,000 it just moved to a

[1:09:05] different GL so you'll see it pushed back or the 15,000 did um and then the

[1:09:10] STR went to another line item that went to the advertising um so if there's any

[1:09:17] specific questions about John's budget he [snorts] is here to answer those for

[1:09:20] you >> I want to jump in there uh

[1:09:24] our our board has met a couple of times now and uh in one in one situation John

[1:09:31] presented a an event opportunity. Uh, and they they endorsed that. They just

[1:09:38] wanted to make sure the council understood that. Hopefully, John will

[1:09:41] have an opportunity at some point to >> to bring that forward. We're hoping that

[1:09:45] he has success with it. >> The other thing is the the board uh

[1:09:50] wants to participate in the annual conferences and training

[1:09:55] opportunities. [snorts and clears throat]

[1:09:56] Uh we've already scheduled them to attend uh destination Texas.

[1:10:03] We opened it up to all of them of course uh and we would extend an invitation to

[1:10:08] council. I had a communication directly with them and they were overwhelmingly

[1:10:13] in favor of us participating in that program and uh we're excited

[1:10:19] about it. So we we got registered and um [clears throat]

[1:10:24] I'm not sure that we were reflecting enough in the budget for the future with

[1:10:29] regard to training and conferences. >> Yes. So that was um one item I was going

[1:10:37] to bring up was um we would probably need to increase their travel and train

[1:10:41] and budget um for uh depending on how many conferences

[1:10:47] they were looking at. >> Right. Yeah. Well, and I think that we

[1:10:50] need the opportunity to evaluate that as as a board to see how many we would like

[1:10:54] to go to. I know that Councilman Pard uh is planning on going to one in October.

[1:11:00] Uh we have several of us, including um uh just at least five, I think. Isn't

[1:11:07] that right, Sam? Five or six uh from the board and um and perhaps even a staff

[1:11:12] person. I'm not sure. Uh but with uh with that said, it would seem to me that

[1:11:19] this is a good time right now to go ahead and plan for that. We know what

[1:11:22] these conferences are. It's it's there's historical data, I'm sure, that you can

[1:11:28] draw on to calculate your you budget for travel and hotel and such. Uh so it

[1:11:34] would really encourage us to do that, beef up that portion of the budget. And

[1:11:41] um another question that's coming to mind uh that

[1:11:46] could relate and help us with our revenue side of things both for not only

[1:11:51] the CBB but for the general fund is what are we

[1:11:55] what are we missing in the way of somebody on staff who is dedicated to

[1:12:00] business development? Someone who knows how to sell. someone

[1:12:04] who can go out and promote the city, can find the sponsorship dollars. You know,

[1:12:11] we don't have to sponsor events and pay for everything out of a general fund or

[1:12:16] out of CVB. What if we have somebody on staff who specializes in that type of

[1:12:20] business activity? So, and they could be they could be a CBB employee and do uh a

[1:12:29] monumental task would be just helping uh John and Billy in just the

[1:12:35] organizational operation of the CVB and be out there promoting the CVB through

[1:12:39] the sales efforts that they could do. I mean, it's it's something John said

[1:12:43] earlier that really, you know, makes sense. We're not a traditional

[1:12:48] in the traditional sense, but we could be kind of a hybrid.

[1:12:52] » And um so maybe looking at the budget with regard to could we program a staff

[1:12:59] person into this budget that could could be a out there helping to develop the

[1:13:05] business? because uh the the truth is, you know, the more tourism we have, the

[1:13:11] more people here, the more they spend, the more sales tax we bring in. And so

[1:13:17] to sum that up, we're we're in a need and that need is

[1:13:23] to raise more revenue. That's going to be part of the solution

[1:13:27] to our future needs. And I would suggest we do something now to begin that

[1:13:35] process. And um those are the two items I wanted

[1:13:39] to bring forward. >> Yeah. So we can um if that's something

[1:13:43] council wants to venture, I can work with John to get um salary scope put

[1:13:47] together for that to add to the budget. Also, we'll look at the I do now have a

[1:13:51] little bit of history because we just booked the travel and training so I can

[1:13:54] see how that's all playing out and I can add that for the final budget adoption

[1:13:58] as well. and CBB does have, you know, an anticipated budget surplus for just of

[1:14:05] operational of 284. So that can be easily achieved in that

[1:14:09] » budget. Councilman Robinson, on on that, I think we could to look at trying to

[1:14:15] narrow down a a budget that we can work with is let's just say we want to

[1:14:20] estimate all the board members do two conferences a year. that gives us a good

[1:14:27] bearing of of what we want to budget for and then next year or the following year

[1:14:31] if there's more or less depending on the participation of that we can adjust

[1:14:36] that. So I think going forward just as a start let's just budget for two

[1:14:41] conferences per uh per member. >> I think that's very reasonable. The the

[1:14:46] whole point behind that for the benefit of our public who's listening and such

[1:14:49] is you have a group now that it's a new group. They need to learn about the best

[1:14:55] practices of the CVB operation. They need to learn what their role is. They

[1:15:00] need to understand how hot tax is used and the benefits of of what we can do

[1:15:05] with it and what we cannot such and such. Yeah. And so the whole it's it's a

[1:15:10] it's it is it's an educational process and they need to understand and see how

[1:15:15] John and and his team connect with other CVB directors and staff across the state

[1:15:21] so that they it we all know what happens when you go to these conventions. You

[1:15:25] start meeting people. You connect. You find out what others are doing and we

[1:15:29] learn we learn from each other. Good

[1:15:33] » point. We should be able to pay for it very simply because of the ideas that

[1:15:36] each of us bring back to to help our city.

[1:15:40] » These conferences can be tremendous. >> Absolutely.

[1:15:45] » Good for us. >> And the only other thing that I think I

[1:15:50] might add on that was previously um under Kathy's uh tenure and certainly

[1:15:58] Joseph I might have spoken to you about this as well. We looked at different

[1:16:02] models for that potential for a salesperson or to do a contract with

[1:16:08] someone who could help in that capacity. So, it doesn't have to be necessarily

[1:16:13] one way or the other. It could be a contracted position um with a firm or

[1:16:18] someone to help with that. I've done already exploration into that.

[1:16:23] Previously, it was sidebarred for a while. Um we don't have space for to put

[1:16:29] a person right now. Thank you. You just brought up one more thing.

[1:16:34] » What What about taking advantage of the fact

[1:16:39] that we have a we have a really strong revenue stream that comes into our CVB

[1:16:45] and looking at our budget and perhaps adjusting some of the expenditure level,

[1:16:50] maybe advertising and some other line items. And what about setting up a

[1:16:58] visitors center again? I know we had one at one point, but it was way, you know,

[1:17:02] it was kind of like off the beaten path. What about having something right out

[1:17:06] here on the freeway? A simple, easy to get to place that has a storefront and

[1:17:13] create some space for staff and and maybe even put a uh police police

[1:17:18] substation in it. >> Guess what, [clears throat]

[1:17:21] » Sam? Sam got an idea like that. >> We've already steal your fund or

[1:17:25] something. >> We've already talked about that and

[1:17:27] taking actual steps. All right, I'm Sam. Could you elaborate a little bit on

[1:17:31] that? >> Yes. And to dovetail on on that, we are

[1:17:34] looking at suitable areas that could be a potential site for a visitor center.

[1:17:40] Now, for a visitor center, and and John will agree with me, it needs to be in

[1:17:44] the heart of the activity. >> So, yes, the previous or the former

[1:17:49] location where you had it really wasn't an area where you're going to have a lot

[1:17:52] of traffic. So, we're looking at areas uh potentially uh Metro Park is also is

[1:17:58] a good area to have that because as that develops, as more programs uh and and

[1:18:03] events that come to that area, you want to have that foot traffic u going in and

[1:18:08] out of that visitor center to help promote our hotels, our restaurants, and

[1:18:13] our shopping. And so, yes, um I think that would be a potential. Joseph and I

[1:18:18] have have been looking at that and uh we're also talking with John about that.

[1:18:24] We would need some funding of course to build out, you know, a space and also

[1:18:30] look at leasing that as well. So, uh some funding for that would be

[1:18:35] appropriate for this. Absolutely.

[1:18:40] » Great minds think alike.

[1:18:48] So, I can get with Lisa on some on some numbers on that on some estimates of

[1:18:53] what we're looking at for that. I don't have any at this moment. Um, you know,

[1:18:59] but I think we can come up with some pretty reasonable uh numbers on that and

[1:19:05] again, as she indicated, we have the funding ability to be able to do that.

[1:19:09] » Well, I really appreciate the uh consideration.

[1:19:21] I just had a question on just one curious question. What is that? Uh the

[1:19:25] capital project that was 29 299,000. >> It was technically part of the HVAC

[1:19:32] because they use part of the building. So we divied up the HVAC based on the

[1:19:36] square footage that each department each fund uses. So CB, water, sewer. Yeah.

[1:19:43] and then general funds. [snorts]

[1:19:53] » Yeah. So, anything else about Oh, you want to go back to tourism talk?

[1:19:58] » I do not. >> Okay. [laughter]

[1:20:00] You know, >> I think there's a more appropriate place

[1:20:02] for that discussion to occur. >> Okay. Um, so yeah, other than that, um,

[1:20:06] we'll work on some of those costs for the the final budget. So like what Sam

[1:20:10] said for like the buildout that doesn't have to necessarily go against their

[1:20:13] operational budget. The lease would the lease cost but the actual

[1:20:19] uh buildout could be treated as a capital project out of their reserve.

[1:20:22] And the CBB fund has like $7 million in the reserve. So shy of it. So um just to

[1:20:32] let you put in perspective that's kind of that idea between recurrent and

[1:20:35] non-recurring expenditures. >> Okay. Um if there's no other questions

[1:20:41] about the um hotel motel fund CPB 20200, we'll move on. Next is going to be water

[1:20:46] stewer. Um

[1:20:50] » what number is [clears throat] wise?

[1:20:53] » Uh CBB >> no that's 45.

[1:20:57] » Uh the [clears throat] next item you're going to talk about I find it.

[1:21:00] » So it's fund 600 department 50. >> 50.

[1:21:02] » Yeah. And fund 600 has two departments. It has the uh department 50 water sewer

[1:21:09] and then it has 51 utility billing. Um so the only changes I have for water

[1:21:15] sewer at this point are um the medical and dental insurance differentials.

[1:21:22] That's all I have. Um I am trying to rework the revenue numbers. Um they do

[1:21:26] have a healthy budget surplus as of now. We're trying to gauge more of what TAMA

[1:21:30] is going to bring on for additional revenue. And also we know we know that

[1:21:37] the AMI project which is going to start soon once that's completed there will be

[1:21:42] revenue that we know that we're losing because of older meters especially in

[1:21:46] our commercial district. So it's it's it's kind of a balancing act

[1:21:51] right now trying to figure out um what those revenues will be but they have a

[1:21:55] healthy um proposed budget surplus so we should be fine. Um and I'll get those

[1:22:00] revenues updated by the adoption uh meeting. So [snorts]

[1:22:05] um water and sewer I don't think they had several changes but mostly it's for

[1:22:10] operational I believe. Um

[1:22:22] oh sorry that's utility billing. I was like wow they had no change but that's

[1:22:25] utility billing. [laughter] Um

[1:22:32] so I will make a note um you'll notice that their um personnel budget had kind

[1:22:38] of increased significantly um because the p the some field service

[1:22:44] operators are paid out of water sewer because of meter reads they do more

[1:22:47] water sewer functions they are paid out of the water sewer fund um and because

[1:22:53] unfortunately the field service position usually rotates more has turnover more

[1:22:58] than because of the nature of that job. Um that it was left a position was left

[1:23:03] off of the budget last year. So it's been approved. It was just we had a

[1:23:08] vacancy for so long that when I did my calculations, it didn't bring it back

[1:23:12] over. So that's why you see that differential and that was a mistake I

[1:23:16] made last year. >> Huh?

[1:23:19] » Don't do that. >> I know. So um but it's been corrected.

[1:23:23] So that's why you'll see that um larger increase. It was already approved

[1:23:27] position. It was just because there was a vacancy at the end of the year. It

[1:23:31] didn't pull over correctly. >> What about the groundwater reduction

[1:23:34] plan? >> So that is so that's based on pumpage.

[1:23:38] So if you look at your water bill, you'll see there's a lonear conservation

[1:23:41] district charge and then there's the groundwater conservation district charge

[1:23:45] or groundwater >> conservation

[1:23:47] » conservation, sorry. um those are um and Joseph could

[1:23:52] probably explain that way better than me, but we're required to collect those

[1:23:56] to promote conservation. So, the idea is it's a it's a percentage that goes on

[1:24:01] your um usage. So, as you use more water, you pay more of that fee to then

[1:24:06] try to promote conservation. Um so, what we do is typically um that's

[1:24:13] usually a pass through fee. So we have an expender lineup that matches that and

[1:24:18] it's mostly for the Cahula well down in Panorama Village.

[1:24:22] » Did I hear you pass through? So there's a 27 $27,500

[1:24:28] increase but really that's going to >> it's based on pumpage

[1:24:31] » pass through. >> Yeah.

[1:24:32] » Okay.

[1:24:37] And that GL for the expenditure really mostly pays for the cattle well that we

[1:24:42] have with Panorama Village. that was built in 2014.

[1:24:49] Um there was a big decrease in the water sewer budget and it was for meter

[1:24:54] replacements because we are doing a huge meter replacement project. So that did

[1:24:58] reduce that line item by 52,000. Um those commercial meters are very

[1:25:02] costly and we have a lot of commercial that

[1:25:07] uses a lot of big meters.

[1:25:11] Trying to find out what you're talking about. Oh, the 52. Okay.

[1:25:17] » Yeah, that was the >> 525.

[1:25:19] » Yep. >> Okay.

[1:25:20] » We reduced what we need to do to replace because we're doing the larger AMI

[1:25:24] replacement.

[1:25:32] But other than that, other than um like I noted, there's I think the

[1:25:37] only other larger increase they have is 12,000 and that was for increased sledge

[1:25:42] halls because we're adding you do have to consider this budget does add on

[1:25:46] another plant and several lift stations as well with the Tamina community.

[1:25:50] » So your operational costs are going up as well.

[1:26:01] And those fees that are coming out of the family community going to be

[1:26:05] included into this >> the revenues.

[1:26:08] » Mhm. >> Because they are now.

[1:26:11] » So I did get some good um and that's the other problem is I try to base it on I

[1:26:16] do get reporting from A1 from what each consumer uses because we now control

[1:26:21] that CCN. So it's technically our reporting. Um, but we have to consider

[1:26:26] that those meters are very old and they're probably not very accurate. So,

[1:26:31] it's hard to gauge what will be a good revenue number for some of those

[1:26:34] properties. >> Is there there wasn't a plan to replace

[1:26:38] the meters to >> Well, that's what we're doing right now.

[1:26:40] Okay. >> It's just based on their historical bill

[1:26:42] and it's very hard to kind of pinpoint what

[1:26:44] » Got it. Good. >> Yeah, that's what I thought I would.

[1:26:47] » Those meters are very old. >> They're getting new meters. I really

[1:26:51] » they'll be our AMI system. So we'll know >> that's what I thought.

[1:26:55] » That's included in in phase two, right, of the Tamina project.

[1:26:58] » The plumbing contract right now >> paid through with ARPA dollars,

[1:27:02] » right? >> Which still has to be completed.

[1:27:05] » Yes. >> Yes.

[1:27:10] » Very aware.

[1:27:13] » Is there any questions about water sewer? Uh

[1:27:21] Um if there's nothing else and then just utility billings the other the other

[1:27:25] part of order sewer and there was no increases other than the salary and

[1:27:30] wage. Um Tammy does a really good job at

[1:27:34] negotiating prices for bills and everything else like that. So

[1:27:40] that's about it I got for water sewer unless anyone else has questions.

[1:27:45] Not until you get to capital projects. >> I know. Yeah.

[1:27:52] » And then section D is non- major funds. Those are legitimately

[1:27:57] the off the revenue offset for the equipment replacement transfers. And

[1:28:01] then the metrop park. Um the PID has no bearing on any city financials. The the

[1:28:07] city does not pay for anything for the PID. Doesn't pay for the debt payments.

[1:28:10] It's all from the special assessments on those properties within the metrop park

[1:28:14] boundaries. But state legislation requires me to

[1:28:18] adopt a budget for them. So that's what that is.

[1:28:21] » Even if it has two goose eggs. >> Yes. So that is one of those things that

[1:28:26] just has to be there. It's a little confusing, but that's it. Um and then

[1:28:30] the trash um fund is a non- major fund and it's 140 and it's basically just the

[1:28:36] cost of trash and then the transfer is the revenue from general fund for the

[1:28:42] the coverage of the trash cost. That's about it.

[1:28:53] » Okay. >> Okay.

[1:28:54] » Yeah. If you want to move on to >> We're going to move on to item number

[1:28:58] nine, special consideration items.

[1:29:04] [clears throat] >> So, mayor and council, um, I kind of

[1:29:07] provided a combined document for your review. Um I believe it was March could

[1:29:12] have been February but we did discuss [clears throat] the general fund. I did

[1:29:16] a reserve study based on GFOA's best practices and with in coordination with

[1:29:22] um the developer of that that um um um trying to think what a good word be

[1:29:29] basically he helped create that framework um Mr. Kavanagh with GOA. So I

[1:29:34] worked with him and did kind of a rate um a reserve study and the 180 days as a

[1:29:41] background was um adopted I believe in 2018 um when we had a newer council come

[1:29:46] on board they wanted to make sure that reserves were um safekept and they were

[1:29:52] used for appropriate reasons. Um so they put in that 180 days even though the

[1:29:58] GFOA best practice is 90 days at a minimum. Um, so we do supersede that

[1:30:04] obviously. Um, and we have since about 2018, 2019 [snorts] I believe. So, um,

[1:30:11] that currently puts us about 5.9 million because it basically takes your average

[1:30:16] daily cost of business and then divides over 365 days. There is, you also have

[1:30:22] to take consideration if there was a major revenue shortfall, we're not going

[1:30:26] to continue operations at full capacity. I think there will be things that will

[1:30:29] have to be looked at and maybe foregone. Um, you know,

[1:30:35] you're not going to, you know, we may not, um, do as much travel and training.

[1:30:39] We may not do as much um, we might look at our contracts and see what we can

[1:30:44] reduce. You're going to go into negotiation mode and try to figure out

[1:30:47] what is the necessity and what is something we can bypass for at least a

[1:30:51] year. >> Um, so that number is based on straight

[1:30:54] up how the budget is. doesn't take consideration that there will be

[1:30:58] reductions. Um so you know I think so at the end of the

[1:31:04] study and I'm not going to go through the whole presentation. I already did

[1:31:06] that once but um it is online on my financial transparency page the

[1:31:10] presentation if you would like to see it. Um but it put our risk score at a

[1:31:14] 26. So it basically recommends that we stay within the 90 to 120day reserve I

[1:31:22] believe. Um, so if the council and council has the

[1:31:27] right to revise that policy, um, I can revise it at the direction of what you

[1:31:31] guys prefer. Um, and there are if you read the policy, there are certain

[1:31:35] things that it can cover such as non-recurrent items, revenue shortfalls.

[1:31:40] But if you go if you know we and when you look at our general fund reserve on

[1:31:46] unassigned balance, there is a cushion. We have about 3

[1:31:50] million that's not restricted whatsoever. So that money can be used

[1:31:53] for non-recurrent items and we don't even have to touch our 180 days. So we

[1:31:58] do have a healthy reserve on both sides. Um so it's really just what you want to

[1:32:03] put as your minimum. So if there was a larger project or an opportunity that

[1:32:06] came on, you're if you needed to go lower, you have more flexibility.

[1:32:12] Basically, that would be the situation.

[1:32:18] It doesn't if we lower it doesn't mean tomorrow you're going to we're going to

[1:32:20] spend it. that that does not mean that it just gives you more flexibility based

[1:32:24] on our historical. We have seen what our volatility and our risk is and and

[1:32:30] Charlie brought up during COVID, we were fortunate still to pretty much still

[1:32:35] come out okay. Like we were very fortunate our belt

[1:32:39] » a lot to go liquor sales. We'll say that [laughter]

[1:32:43] » Lisa did well >> tightening the belt

[1:32:48] » when I was looking at this graph. >> Uhhuh.

[1:32:50] » And uh the major event issues. >> Yes. And you could see where when we

[1:32:56] when COVID hit that dip was not

[1:33:03] as dramatic as I thought it was going to be.

[1:33:06] » And then the way we bounced back from that

[1:33:09] » sales tax just >> it just saved the day.

[1:33:11] » It did. It saved the day. But but it was the fact that we recovered so quickly

[1:33:17] and that to me and look at Harvey when Harvey came through how quickly we

[1:33:22] recovered from that. >> Mhm.

[1:33:24] » And it just in my mind reinforces the fact that uh yes we absolutely have to

[1:33:30] have a reserve. That is a good business practice. I think we just probably can

[1:33:37] back off of that a little bit and uh a 90-day would probably be sufficient.

[1:33:44] But not having had a apparently when council did this,

[1:33:50] there's no real professional risk analysis that was done. It was an

[1:33:55] arbitrary kind of decision, wasn't it? >> Yeah, it was just from

[1:33:58] » But that's fine. But now we we we're in a situation today where we you know we

[1:34:02] had to raise taxes last year. We're looking at what our needs are going to

[1:34:06] be for the future. If we free up some of that for the future and classify it the

[1:34:14] way the council thinks it should be, whether it be, you know, committed to

[1:34:17] certain funding type activities. I'm not suggesting that we just

[1:34:22] unclassify it and leave it there as but maybe it could some of that could go

[1:34:26] into available cash for the future. And [laughter] at any rate I I personally

[1:34:32] feel like 90 days is a pretty good number.

[1:34:39] » My question is what does it cost us based on you know what it has maybe over

[1:34:45] the last five years? How much have we had to put into the reserve to keep it

[1:34:51] at that 180? >> It just varies on your budget increase

[1:34:54] every year. So, usually I think it varies about 100,000 um we throw in

[1:34:58] there every year give or take. >> It's self supporting basically. Joe, I'm

[1:35:04] sorry. >> It's self-supporting basically. 100,000

[1:35:07] 90,000. >> It just depends on what your

[1:35:09] expenditures are that year divide by you know.

[1:35:12] » Yeah. So wherever your So like our expenditures don't go up a whole lot,

[1:35:16] right? They go up about 3% 4%. >> That's money we didn't spend.

[1:35:20] » That's money we did not spend. >> And we've been very fortunate the last

[1:35:25] couple years uh with interest rates. I know it it hurts most of the world, but

[1:35:31] we've been very um beneficial of interest rates, but I can't bank on

[1:35:36] interest rates, so I can't use as a main revenue source because those can change

[1:35:39] overnight. >> No. [laughter] Okay. So, but that that

[1:35:42] has added a lot to our reserve amount as well is that additional revenue that we

[1:35:46] don't >> you can't really budget for interest. I

[1:35:48] put a little bit in there. Yeah. >> But you just never know what's going to

[1:35:51] happen with interest rates. >> Yeah. Unlike

[1:35:54] » do we have Sorry. Do we have an official austerity plan already? Have we already

[1:35:59] looked in case something happens? >> Like a like a um level of service plan

[1:36:05] basically if there's a >> minimum level of service plan already.

[1:36:08] So I so obviously there is priorities that we will you know personnel is going

[1:36:15] to be our priority that to retain and retain our service. Majority of our

[1:36:19] personnel is PD so that would be you know that's going to be our first

[1:36:23] priority. Second priorities are going to be contracts that we have to commit to

[1:36:27] and that are you we need to do for cost of business. And then usually the other

[1:36:32] things are going to be like your office supplies your travel and training. those

[1:36:34] things are going to be the ones that get more chopped than not. Office equipment,

[1:36:39] um stuff like that. Um we'll probably if a project hasn't started, we might try

[1:36:44] to postpone that, you know, just to try to keep some revenue um unallocated at

[1:36:50] that point. >> I'm not familiar with municipal

[1:36:54] strategic plans, but could that be covered in [clears throat] in as part of

[1:36:59] the strategy? >> U expense.

[1:37:02] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[1:37:04] Absolutely. Yeah. >> Yeah. How much money we can use and

[1:37:08] how >> we don't have a policy written written

[1:37:12] out like but we have a good plan of what >> a priority earnest. You know what I

[1:37:17] mean? But it's not etched in stone. >> It also depends on the situation as

[1:37:23] well. You don't have one situation that's going to umbrella everything. So

[1:37:27] depending on what what it is that we run into, we have to tailor our operations

[1:37:32] based on that. exactly why there isn't >> like CO would probably be a good

[1:37:36] example. Um during CO um obviously there wasn't much transin because everything

[1:37:40] was shut down. So that saved some money there. Um we also um you know not a lot

[1:37:46] of people were out and about so we saved fuel costs you know so there's things

[1:37:49] that happened because there wasn't you know there weren't as

[1:37:53] many people out and about so PE wasn't responding to crashes and

[1:37:57] » most of it was rain and wind damage. >> Yeah. So, um, yeah. So, the situational

[1:38:04] is a good reason. Yeah.

[1:38:09] And if we do have an emergency like Harvey was a one of our biggest ones

[1:38:14] because it shut down and Barrel was our last one because it shut down. Shannido

[1:38:18] was one of the last areas to get an electricity I think.

[1:38:21] » Yeah. Barrel. >> Um, so um, you know, you lost a week of

[1:38:26] revenue retail sales. The only benefit of we've seen is when you have a natural

[1:38:31] disaster, they call it the boom. So, usually you'll have a disaster and then

[1:38:35] the next month people have to replace beds, they have to replace um groceries,

[1:38:40] you know, so you'll see a mass influx of sales tax the month following,

[1:38:44] especially during a flood event in Southeast Texas. If your house gets

[1:38:48] flooded, Home Depot is going to be making some profits. Um U Sam's Club,

[1:38:53] same thing, too. you know, you'll see those those retailers pick up a lot

[1:38:57] [snorts] of revenue the month after a natural disaster. Um, so it's all

[1:39:02] situational based. It's a little hard to kind of gauge, but the priority has

[1:39:07] always been keep personnel level and keep service level, but let's adjust

[1:39:12] what we can to offset that, you know, economic differential.

[1:39:18] Well, I'd like to advi propose that we revise our reserve policy and that we

[1:39:23] ask our city administrator to make a recommendation to the council on

[1:39:30] the number of days.

[1:39:34] » Yeah. >> Have his input on here as well because

[1:39:37] » yeah, we'll put this on a future agenda then

[1:39:40] » we can get it on to the 20 I would prefer to get it on to the next the

[1:39:43] 26th. >> Yeah. See it as soon as possible. we can

[1:39:46] turn that around pretty quick. >> Um I I would also recommend that and

[1:39:51] once we look at reducing that >> that day coverage, we can also give some

[1:39:57] recommendations on what we could potentially apply those savings to.

[1:40:02] » Whether it be >> all one-time expenses or we sock away

[1:40:06] some for other projects or infrastructure projects that may come up

[1:40:11] that we're looking at down the road. And I know Joseph has a whole bunch of them

[1:40:16] that we could probably apply to as well, >> right? I think it's great.

[1:40:20] » Perfect. >> Do that then.

[1:40:22] » It's got a whole 10-year plan. >> Yeah, [laughter]

[1:40:25] » he knows how to spend it. >> 10 years worth,

[1:40:29] » but he plans it well. >> Yes, he does.

[1:40:33] » All right. Thank you, Lisa.

[1:40:44] The next thing is going to be court study. So, I'll let Jackie take it away.

[1:40:50] Yeah. So, mayor and council, this came up as a u an item presented by council

[1:40:55] to take a look at could there be a potential revenue source to the city if

[1:41:00] our Shannidoa officers were to file their tickets uh with our court versus

[1:41:05] their current uh practice and procedure of filing it with McGomery County

[1:41:09] Precinct 3. Um, and so what we looked at is both the what would be our necessary

[1:41:16] budget impact and budget expenses compared to what the revenue potential

[1:41:20] could be um with those tickets. And so just a a high breakdown what was

[1:41:27] included in the uh what Lisa sent in the special consideration is to reestablish

[1:41:33] a municipal court here. we would have to reallocate some funds from the current

[1:41:38] community development uh department which would be salary and wages uh and

[1:41:43] then add some additional funds for operating expenses contract services and

[1:41:47] then some initial startup costs. That court budget would be roughly $135,696.

[1:41:56] uh you'll see that breakdown the reallocation from community development

[1:42:00] the existing court budget to the fiscy year impact this year of the 57

[1:42:06] uh $5925 the offset of that the revenue side the

[1:42:11] projected revenue side we looked at the uh number of

[1:42:17] traffic violations identified within the police department for the 25 calendar

[1:42:22] year uh which was 5,926 traffic violations, which I used a

[1:42:30] matrix from our local uh surrounding courts to determine

[1:42:34] those dispositions. When you look at a court ticket, you've got somebody can

[1:42:39] just choose to pay in full, close it out. There are certain violations that

[1:42:42] have administrative fees that can then close it out at a reduced rate. Um or

[1:42:47] those that are either dismissed by the judge, deferred, appealed, those those

[1:42:52] types of activities. And so based on those uh historic disposition patterns

[1:42:56] from our local courts, we could approximate that with the number of

[1:43:00] citations that were issued from that 5,926

[1:43:05] violations uh a potential revenue stream of 50,000.

[1:43:09] And so basically after comparing the budget impact and the budget needs with

[1:43:18] the operations of the police department currently is not um

[1:43:24] uh it's not financially feasible at this

[1:43:29] point in time. Um we chief Dunlap did look at the 26 numbers and they're

[1:43:34] trending just about the same as the 25 numbers. Um, and we talked about just

[1:43:38] continuing to monitor that to see if there is in the future a potential that

[1:43:44] those revenues could could be there for the city. Um, but at this point in time,

[1:43:49] » not the case.

[1:43:54] » You never mentioned warrants FTAs for >> correct. So it's

[1:43:59] » that kills the police department. >> It does. So right. So there is um and a

[1:44:05] part of that technology fee is there are um there are certain programs

[1:44:09] [clears throat] and softwares that you enroll on that do notify either our

[1:44:12] department or other departments that are prescribed to it to those warrants. Um

[1:44:16] service of those warrants whether it's even just from the the court staff side

[1:44:20] needing officers signature to execute summons those kind of things but also

[1:44:25] the transportation and and the issuance and the handling of those warrants.

[1:44:29] Right.

[1:44:33] was a big annoyance to the residents who I I got called up here I think about

[1:44:37] twice a year to serve on the court and I hate it all everybody I know hated

[1:44:42] coming down here for that >> and uh it's a it irritates everybody

[1:44:46] also gives you the it gives the the image in in the community that how

[1:44:52] » how bad we are how bad our police force is.

[1:44:55] » Yeah, >> I I did include that as part of the the

[1:44:58] analysis too. Um I I did I I did I was curious about what that looked like as

[1:45:02] far as jury selections with our residents and um surprising to me

[1:45:07] Oakidge only had a couple jury trials scheduled. So I don't know if it's and

[1:45:11] and that was a primary factor in when I looked at this is what are their their

[1:45:15] dispositions look like because we would maybe not see the same type

[1:45:19] [clears throat] of violations but the same type of violations between you know

[1:45:22] this this immediate area. Um so surprisingly lower than I expected on

[1:45:27] that but yes you are correct. If we did need a jury pool, it would be our

[1:45:30] » We don't have that many people in this community to go to those those meetings.

[1:45:34] And what was it? Every Tuesday or so, every Wednesday, you would have the

[1:45:38] court. >> They were doing court twice a month. Um

[1:45:40] and I think that's what Oakidge does. I would anticipate uh I I did budget for

[1:45:45] two court settings um a month, but that would just depend

[1:45:50] on on docket load and sizes, too.

[1:45:56] » I'm not falling. It doesn't sound like it's feasible

[1:46:01] thing to do.

[1:46:07] All right. Can municipalities

[1:46:11] share court facilities and split costs and split revenue?

[1:46:16] » I think it you run into an issue with the jurisdiction overlapping. Um our we

[1:46:22] I don't want to say we share judge and prosecutor services. you're talking

[1:46:25] about um could we could we pair up for jury trials and and stuff like that if

[1:46:31] we were to have those? You can. I I do see like um what happens is

[1:46:36] um uh for Huntsville example and only reason I know this is because I was

[1:46:39] actually called for jury selection um for on a municipal court. [snorts]

[1:46:43] They will they will pile a court docket for just jury trials. They will select

[1:46:47] one jury and that jury will try all two, three, four cases. So you're not

[1:46:52] consistently compiling, you're not you're not having to pull for one

[1:46:56] setting per one citation. >> Um so that that practice may slim that

[1:47:01] down a little bit, but again, you're still

[1:47:04] » reaching out to the community, the local community to to compile the jury. Do we

[1:47:09] do we have any obligations financially to the county

[1:47:14] » for for administering our >> No, they they uh their financial gain is

[1:47:20] by the disposition of those cases that are filed over there.

[1:47:29] » Thank you, Jackie. Thank you.

[1:47:34] » We're going to move on to the strategic plan study.

[1:47:43] I'll take that one, mayor. >> Okay. So, this was a item that I put on

[1:47:48] and I believe this is a uh strategic plan for the city gives us a roadmap of

[1:47:54] where who we want to be, what our identity is, and shared visions from not

[1:47:59] only the council but also staff. So, we put this shared vision together. It

[1:48:03] gives us a road map, a playbook of where we want to be, short-term and long-term

[1:48:07] goals. Usually, you look at a three to five year strategic plan. Now, this plan

[1:48:12] needs to also be flexible because we know that there can be turnover on

[1:48:16] council as well. But what what's good about it is it gives us a a scoring

[1:48:21] grade book of where we're going to be in that that 3 to 5 year period. And I know

[1:48:26] the council here has a lot of great ideas. We have a lot of visions. And I

[1:48:29] think if we pull all those visions together and align them in a strategic

[1:48:34] way, we can accomplish those goals together. And so what I've put together

[1:48:39] is an estimate of around 60,000 to go out for proposals for us to have a

[1:48:43] strategic plan. The strategic plan will also tie into our budget process. So

[1:48:48] whatever it is that we determine is our initiatives for strategic plan, we will

[1:48:53] need to budget for that too. So we would do this strategic plan before the budget

[1:48:58] process starts so that we can align that up. So when you're while when we're here

[1:49:03] next year at the same time, the items that we're bringing for you will be tied

[1:49:07] to the strategic plan. >> So happy to answer any questions you may

[1:49:11] have on that. Well, sure. I got to jump in here because in, as you all know,

[1:49:19] sat on his side of the the bench when it came to public

[1:49:24] administration and and all my organizations did this.

[1:49:28] This is actually fun to go through for a council to go through a strategic

[1:49:33] planning session with staff. You get together, you you do a retreat,

[1:49:40] you spend time establishing what your vision is, what

[1:49:45] your mission is going to be. You identify those things. You set goals.

[1:49:49] Usually, I've seen, I think, anywhere from six to eight major goals will

[1:49:54] evolve. They'll they'll come out of this conversation.

[1:49:58] um goals about staff, goals about public works, goals about parks, and it just

[1:50:04] goes on. And just as as uh Sam just said, out of that, you'll have a set of

[1:50:12] strategies and these are your budget tools. They're

[1:50:18] your triggers. You want to accomplish this. Here's your strategy. What's the

[1:50:22] cost associated with that? And when the councils adopt these strategic plans,

[1:50:27] they now have hooks that they can hang their hat on when they make a decision

[1:50:33] about they want to spend on X to accomplish this. Whoa, it's in this

[1:50:37] routine plan. It really works well with the public. The public perception of the

[1:50:42] fact that hey, these people put a plan together. We can read it's very

[1:50:46] transparent. It's out there. It's of course with the internet and I want to

[1:50:49] say it's so easy for them to see. and you and you the this is totally

[1:50:54] different. You've heard of terms like comprehensive plans and such.

[1:50:58] That's not what this is. This is something that uh we used a term uh Joe

[1:51:04] uh Sam is a evergreen. >> Yes.

[1:51:06] » Right. Meaning that it evolves. It changes with the seasons. Whatever

[1:51:12] seasons we might be in. So I I'm so excited that you're going to do this.

[1:51:17] Thank you.

[1:51:20] Yeah, something different because we did have a we do have a 10-year plan. I know

[1:51:26] we we went over that. >> You have a comprehensive plan.

[1:51:29] » Comprehensive plan. A comprehensive plan is a big vision required by statute.

[1:51:33] Basically, states require it. You know, how are you going to deal with these

[1:51:36] major projects, mobility, all of that kind of stuff.

[1:51:39] » This is how you're going to operate. >> It's like a therap.

[1:51:45] » Yeah. And and typically you want to try to tie in some of those plans, your

[1:51:49] comprehensive plans, yes, your uh say water and sewer studies as well, your

[1:51:54] parks master plan that also ties into your strategic plan so that you're

[1:51:58] meeting those goals on all areas of the city. It gives us purpose is what it

[1:52:03] does. >> Yeah,

[1:52:07] » sounds like a good idea. >> Any other questions? I just uh more of I

[1:52:11] guess I'm still trying to I've been through different things of this and so

[1:52:15] the definitively uh depending on who you're talking to,

[1:52:19] what industry you're talking to, haven't been haven't done that here in this

[1:52:24] industry and so I'm just trying to find out what's what's this kind of scope,

[1:52:29] you know, the tangible scope uh that you can grab on to say this is, you know,

[1:52:36] this is the vision of, you know, looking at what we want to do for the vision

[1:52:42] that we see. So there there has to be so many different types of tangibles and

[1:52:47] you know that's so I guess I'm looking at that looking for definitive

[1:52:52] » correct. You want to have obtainable goals. So like any goals that you set

[1:52:57] forward for anything personal or business you want to make sure they're

[1:53:01] achievable and that you're capable of doing those. You don't want to set a

[1:53:05] goal that's not achievable. And it comes from the ideas that we put together, we

[1:53:10] brainstorm together. It could be public safety, it could be quality of life, um,

[1:53:15] and so forth. And so those are the things that we don't know yet until we

[1:53:19] get into a room together and start identifying

[1:53:22] » what it is that we want Shannondoa to be. And a component of that also is to

[1:53:28] get resident feedback on that as well. >> Yeah, absolutely.

[1:53:33] 100%.

[1:53:37] » Good. >> So, this item is one of those items

[1:53:40] that's like a non-recurring item that can be funded out of the available cash.

[1:53:43] It doesn't have to go against your tax rate operational budget. So, that's this

[1:53:48] is kind of a good example going forward of what can you know?

[1:53:51] » Yeah, >> this in capital projects.

[1:53:53] » Um, >> good. So, is there consensus to move

[1:53:57] forward with this item? >> I certainly in support of it. Yeah.

[1:54:01] » Okay. >> Yes. and and Joe uh and everybody in

[1:54:04] here. There's a couple places you can go uh go to the Woodlands Township,

[1:54:12] look for look at their strategic plan. You'll you'll get immediately you it'll

[1:54:16] you'll understand it. Or go to uh um uh oh just just let me there's a couple of

[1:54:24] other towns up in Dallas area that are have some really good ones too.

[1:54:28] » I think McKini has a good one. Yeah, Mckenn's

[1:54:32] got a McKenna's got a great strategic plan.

[1:54:34] » I I can send the council some examples links to cities that have strategic

[1:54:39] plans. You can get an idea what we're looking at.

[1:54:42] » And also with the strategic plan, my department can finally get the best

[1:54:46] budget award with GFO. You do [laughter] need a strategic plan.

[1:54:49] » That's right. >> So it [clears throat] would go into

[1:54:52] other good things. So [snorts] um so I will put 60,000 as the cap. Um, and

[1:54:59] we'll see what the bids come in as and then if there's additional funding

[1:55:01] needed, we'll come back at that time >> and we can always negotiate.

[1:55:07] » Okay. Um, >> so we'll segue to CBP.

[1:55:10] » Yeah. So, I don't have an actual that was not an um that was kind of [snorts]

[1:55:14] um after we started talking, CBB would have its own strategic plan because

[1:55:18] obviously it's different than a city strategic plan and I'll let Sam kind of

[1:55:21] elaborate. >> Correct. and and really same type of

[1:55:24] vision uh for the tourism is to have a strategic plan for the board and for

[1:55:32] staff to understand what what what it is we want to do and what is our strategic

[1:55:38] planning for tourism and for our CVB department. And so by having a strategic

[1:55:44] plan, same idea, what is our identity? What do we want to be? What is our

[1:55:48] purpose and goals? And I think that is also needed for that uh particular area

[1:55:53] as well. Give us some guidance, give us a roadmap.

[1:55:57] » Right. So I think uh we'll have that conversation in our next uh board

[1:56:04] meeting. Uh I suspect that uh you'll have a consensus from that group as

[1:56:09] well. So might as well go ahead and move forward.

[1:56:11] » So put please go the same amount. >> Yes, I I'd say the same amount.

[1:56:18] That would be totally off CB funds, not the general fund.

[1:56:23] » Okay. Um and then the last um study under special consideration studies um

[1:56:29] we'll get through this and then we can take a break is the salary and comp

[1:56:32] study request. Um and that's also a SAM request.

[1:56:37] » Correct. So one of the items I' I've also want to look at is you know we

[1:56:42] talked a lot about pay parody for the police department. I think we should

[1:56:46] also look at our compensation for the other side of the house, non-public

[1:56:52] safety. Um, we're a unique city. We have uh a small department, but we have many

[1:56:58] hats that everybody wears. So, there's a value to that. And um our our employees

[1:57:05] are very marketable that way. And as we move forward as a city, we need to be

[1:57:10] able to have competitive rates so that we can retain and also recruit uh the

[1:57:17] best um team members so that our city can continue to function. Um give a good

[1:57:23] example and you know when we did the tours around the city and we talked

[1:57:27] about our infrastructure, our public works department, you know that group

[1:57:32] wears many hat wears many hats. They're dual certified. Most cities don't

[1:57:37] operate that way in [snorts] public works. So, they're very marketable. They

[1:57:41] can go to a private utility somewhere and make more money or have better

[1:57:47] opportunities. We want to keep that. We have very talented and very skilled uh

[1:57:52] public works uh employees. And that's just one example. You can go around the

[1:57:56] city, finance department, you know, community development, CVB, you know,

[1:58:04] everywhere around the city, we have that same same type of mentality. We we want

[1:58:08] to keep and retain that. So, I think a compensation study is needed to see

[1:58:13] where we're at. And what a compensation study does is looks at your particular

[1:58:20] your particular operations, what your pay rates, what your

[1:58:26] compensation, your benefits packages are compared to others around your area. We

[1:58:31] compete with large cities around their area. We compete with the Woodlands

[1:58:36] Township, city of Tombball, city of Conroe. You look at a 30 mile radius,

[1:58:40] those are the cities that we're competing against. We're a small city,

[1:58:44] so we want to be able to be competitive. We don't have to be the highest, but we

[1:58:48] can be competitive and we need to evaluate that. The study could indicate

[1:58:53] that some areas were pretty good and it could say also that some areas we need

[1:58:59] to improve a little bit. And so the idea of a compensation study is to bring

[1:59:04] someone in from an outside and take a look at that and study that for us and

[1:59:08] maybe also create some policies with for us too that can help us uh be

[1:59:12] competitive as well. So my uh cost estimate for that would be around 50,000

[1:59:18] to bring in a consultant to be able to do that.

[1:59:22] Happy to answer any questions you may have. that can be split between CBB,

[1:59:26] water, sewer, and finance based on and I'll do it based on probably a current

[1:59:30] payroll share like the breakout between the cost of

[1:59:35] those contracts.

[1:59:39] » Good idea. >> Yeah,

[1:59:40] » I won't have those numbers right now. I'll bring them back.

[1:59:45] » That'll take me a minute. But those that's one of those ones that could be

[1:59:49] split. The strategic plan also with water sewer can be split.

[1:59:55] » Any additional questions on this? >> Just remember, Charlie, that might

[1:59:59] increase that 3%.

[2:00:03] » All right, might reduce it. [laughter] >> All right, 7:00.

[2:00:09] » Let's take a 10 break. >> We just have a consensus, right, for

[2:00:12] this godd? Yes. >> Yes. Okay,

[2:00:15] » let's take a 10-minute break.

[2:00:36] How's that fire?

[2:01:01] I try to make it. >> I

[2:01:11] break it down. When we do, >> you know,

[2:01:20] You can't go wrong.

[2:01:35] They're

[2:01:44] everywhere.

[2:02:26] I saw your thing.

[2:02:52] Charlie.

[2:03:49] the people that I haven't

[2:04:05] sad because my own day.

[2:04:20] I was in combat.

[2:04:40] You go to Fortnite.

[2:05:03] » Yeah.

[2:05:12] I got this online.

[2:05:36] Yes.

[2:05:39] » Always. >> Always.

[2:05:43] » Always.

[2:05:59] It's just

[2:06:37] short not much.

[2:06:50] But it's

[2:07:04] » itever

[2:07:34] watching the music.

[2:07:39] » Yeah.

[2:07:52] Did he first like you need a little pick me up?

[2:08:14] for you to take back with you.

[2:08:28] » Oh my god.

[2:08:44] I'll bring

[2:09:07] There's

[2:09:21] back and forth.

[2:09:30] I mean,

[2:10:16] I thought it was

[2:10:21] too many.

[2:10:26] Oh, she is so

[2:11:12] figure out what's

[2:11:22] Good morning.

[2:12:05] Let's uh resume a discussion, a budget discussion.

[2:12:10] Lisa. >> Yes. So, we are on personnel items of

[2:12:13] the special consideration items. Um, the only new personnel request that we have

[2:12:19] this year is for a water and sewer operator. Um, and I'll let Rall um

[2:12:25] introduce that item. >> Thank you, Lisa. So, yeah, this is the

[2:12:31] recommended position for a new operator. As you all know, we're going to be

[2:12:35] adding Tamina community which is includes four live stations. uh new

[2:12:40] water plant and also we just had the uh recent expansion of our wastewater

[2:12:44] treatment plant. So uh our operator is running everywhere right now. They're

[2:12:50] going to every site every day and uh they're working a lot of hours. So it's

[2:12:55] they're we're burning them right now and with this additions we definitely need

[2:12:59] this new position open. Um it's hardly needed. So um

[2:13:05] » can you pull that mic closer to >> Yes.

[2:13:08] Uh so Lisa put in there uh the average cost complete cost for a new operator

[2:13:15] position. This is for uh DD license wastewater d water and a total of pretty

[2:13:22] much $80,000 for a new operator. That's what the cost of CD for any operator. So

[2:13:27] we have to answer any questions on this. >> How how difficult will it be to recruit?

[2:13:33] So actually we already have the position open on our website.

[2:13:38] » We wanted to get a um list of operators that already applying. So as soon as

[2:13:44] this is approved, I can get already have a list so of operators available. I

[2:13:48] already have a a few um uh resumes in my in my office uh that I

[2:13:56] contact them. I told them this is on the budget. hopefully it gets approved so I

[2:14:00] can uh contact them for a final interview.

[2:14:06] » Is is it getting harder >> to find these qualified people?

[2:14:10] » It is getting harder and also there's I call them wolves trying to steal them

[2:14:16] from me. >> Oh yeah.

[2:14:18] » And you know that's that's what the paper I mean paper for everybody is very

[2:14:23] highly needed. >> Yeah.

[2:14:25] » Yeah. I think if you're carrying multiple certifications Yeah. we're

[2:14:29] making our people too marketable. >> Yeah. [laughter]

[2:14:33] » Yeah. Yeah. And it's private companies as well, not just other cities are uh in

[2:14:38] need of operators. >> Yeah. and uh they they give him these

[2:14:42] contracts that are uh very attractive on the on the hourly base and they

[2:14:49] sometimes young operators um go for that because you know uh they

[2:14:55] don't look at all the benefits that CD provides and but they look at the high

[2:15:00] pay job right away and we we need to compete with that and we're doing a good

[2:15:04] job. Uh this is the first step on on the on this.

[2:15:07] » Do we pay for certifications? We do. >> Do we ever have we ever or can we

[2:15:13] honestly we did this and when I was in telecommunications when we put people

[2:15:18] through certifications that we had them sign a document that they're going to be

[2:15:23] around for at least a certain amount of time. I didn't know if that's

[2:15:30] you know you can do it or not. [clears throat] And uh it just

[2:15:35] » Texas is a right to work state. So >> yeah a little hard. Yeah.

[2:15:39] » Very don't hold water. >> Yeah. Test it.

[2:15:43] » Yeah. >> You say it wouldn't hold water.

[2:15:46] » It wouldn't hold water. >> Yeah.

[2:15:48] » What we spend on those certifications is not much. Um so it's definitely I don't

[2:15:53] I don't want to put that in a contract that will avoid

[2:15:58] » because of that. >> But how's the turnover in that that side

[2:16:03] of the engineering >> for operators in specific? I I was an

[2:16:07] operating engineer in New York for 33 years, but I was on the hoisting and

[2:16:12] portable side, not stationary side. >> This is what you're talking about is a

[2:16:16] stationary engine. >> Yes. I mean, you've all been on our

[2:16:19] wastewater treatment plan. It's not the best smell in the world. It's a hard job

[2:16:24] as, you know, it's a, you know, you're in the sun the whole time. You uh

[2:16:28] » But you know that going in. >> Yes. Yeah. But sometimes it gets to

[2:16:33] people at certain point that they cannot take it anymore. So, you know, you you

[2:16:37] need to take care of them to to keep them. And we've been doing a good job. I

[2:16:41] mean, uh we've had a good leadership with Joseph. I'm trying to continue that

[2:16:44] as well. Uh earning their trust and uh trying to have the best public works

[2:16:50] department in this in the state. So, and and Charlie, specifically to your to

[2:16:55] your question, if you recall, this probably about two or three years ago,

[2:16:59] we almost lost a couple of operators because they were being head-hunted by

[2:17:02] another firm and >> and we did a quick evaluation of

[2:17:06] salaries and got them up a little more competitive. Um, so we've been able to

[2:17:11] retain them with council's help to make sure that they're being paid

[2:17:14] competitively. Um but so we've been able to keep a pretty good um handle on our

[2:17:22] operators and the nice thing we have is three of our four operators started as

[2:17:27] field service reps got their certifications and then promoted up into

[2:17:31] that position. We were able to promote that from within. So that's helped

[2:17:35] maintain some of that loyalty as well. >> But you're looking right now for someone

[2:17:38] that is an operator that's going to step into this.

[2:17:41] » Yes, we Yes, we'll need someone to step into it. We we don't have anyone in the

[2:17:45] field service rep ready to to move up move up.

[2:17:48] » Yeah, you probably should have already had this person

[2:17:52] » in place, you know, in reality because of the amount of work that they those

[2:17:58] guys do, >> right? That there's so many programs,

[2:18:02] you know, fog ordinance, backflow prevention, inspections, there's so many

[2:18:06] programs that just fall by the wayside because they're important, but they're

[2:18:10] not critical. And right now we just have to focus on the critical.

[2:18:15] » R, you said you want to have the best public works department in the state.

[2:18:19] » That sounds like a goal in a strategic plan.

[2:18:25] » That might be an idea. >> And Charlie, uh, with other cities that

[2:18:28] I've worked with, it's probably one of the more higher

[2:18:32] rated turnover areas. You're looking at at least at least 50% in other cities

[2:18:37] that I've worked in. And it's just the nature of the job. It's It's hard hard

[2:18:42] to recruit and it's hard to keep. [snorts]

[2:18:45] » Well, that brings up uh at the top the leader there. You've got the leader is a

[2:18:50] highly certified, highly highly soughtafter. I think I think he's

[2:18:54] nearing retirement. Do we have a succession plan?

[2:18:58] » I have some ideas on that. Yes. >> We're training and

[2:19:02] training two of our best operators right now to take that role. Both.

[2:19:08] » Good. >> Yeah. And and I was not kidding on the

[2:19:11] on the best public course department in the state. Um I will be applying to TML

[2:19:16] to get that award. >> That's there you go. Awesome.

[2:19:21] » There you go. [clears throat]

[2:19:26] » Pride ourselves and their employees take care of them.

[2:19:29] » Yes, sir. >> Whatever their their job is.

[2:19:35] » And I will rework these numbers. This is a quick estimate, but I'll make sure

[2:19:39] that I encompassed all the costs that you know I just wanted to make get a

[2:19:43] estimate number into this um document. [snorts] So that'll be added to the

[2:19:47] summary change sheet if you guys by consensus their budget can handle

[2:19:52] another operator their operational budget at this point. Um so if I can

[2:19:56] just get consensus if we want to add this position it's water sewer fund

[2:20:00] totally. >> Oh I don't think choice.

[2:20:03] » Okay. All right. So, I will add that.

[2:20:07] » Is is it appropriate for me to just say what a pleasure it is to work among a

[2:20:12] group of people who aren't yelling and screaming at each other? I

[2:20:15] » think thank you guys. All of you. >> I keep the jersey low.

[2:20:20] [laughter] >> Wasn't always that way. She keeps the

[2:20:23] jersey low. >> But no, you're good.

[2:20:26] » Thank you for that. No, >> we are a good team. Um, if I ask them to

[2:20:30] find a different alternate or bring me something different, no one fights me to

[2:20:36] my face. >> But [laughter]

[2:20:38] I think but we're really good. We work well together.

[2:20:42] » I think the the reason we work that way, uh, Ernie is is because we have a

[2:20:49] tremendous staff. >> Yeah. who really

[2:20:54] looks out for us for us and provides all the information and all everything we

[2:21:00] need to make the the right decision and I think that uh logically that's that's

[2:21:06] what we all should be thinking about you know does this like Charlie always says

[2:21:10] how does this benefit Shannondoa we want to do whatever it takes to benefit our

[2:21:16] residents and our community and and as long as we keep that as as the main

[2:21:21] focus focus. >> Look, I it's I came here worn out today.

[2:21:26] It's been a very intense month for me. Um, but all I want to do now is smile

[2:21:30] because I know that my family is being taken care of here and I really

[2:21:35] appreciate all of you guys. All of you. I really do.

[2:21:38] » Thank you. >> Thank you.

[2:21:44] Okay. So, the next item under the personnel special consideration um last

[2:21:49] year, as you guys recall, um the um Harris County, McGomery County, and

[2:21:55] Houston PD, um pretty much proposed pay parody um for your plans that were

[2:22:02] pretty sticker shock um to most of us. Um and we knew because we had um a

[2:22:09] vacancy of I believe five officers, Troy, at that time period. Um which five

[2:22:14] is a lot for our agency um of like 30. So um we needed to act um to get those

[2:22:23] positions filled and attracted with that pay parody. Um last year, as you recall,

[2:22:29] it was a pretty significant hit. Um and we were very fortunate that we had that

[2:22:34] unused increment with the tax rate to be able to accomplish that pay parody. Um

[2:22:39] so this year though um Chief Dunlap did rework some of the numbers. It's not the

[2:22:46] proposal is not as high as it was last for what we anticipated for year two of

[2:22:50] pay discussion. Um so that is in this chart right here. Last year we had

[2:22:57] estimated the year two would have added about 470,000 to this operating budget.

[2:23:02] Um the numbers that have been reworked will only if approved add 137 138,000

[2:23:09] estimated um to our budget. There is no we because we operate on an annual

[2:23:16] budget we can't commit funds for future years on personnel and stuff like you

[2:23:21] know for stuff like these. So that's why this year two discussion is coming back.

[2:23:27] It does not mean that we need to approve it. It does it could be delayed. It

[2:23:31] could be looked at again next year. It's just because we had presented as a

[2:23:35] four-year plan. We're bringing back a hypothetical year two to you for

[2:23:39] discussion only. And if you wanted to pursue that, we can add that into the

[2:23:44] budget. Um but I will let Chief Dunlap kind of answer any questions. Um,

[2:23:51] but it basically kind of just increased every position by about a $167 an hour.

[2:23:57] Um, and that's pretty much if you looked at that second page that kind of breaks

[2:24:02] out the difference between the two scales, you'll see that for pretty much

[2:24:05] every step in every scale.

[2:24:10] So, if you recall, um, McGomery County, their first year of the pay parody in

[2:24:18] 2026, they were going to 70,900. Of course, we went to 75 to stay above

[2:24:26] that and be competitive. Um this year the the projected um starting pay would

[2:24:34] be 81,900 but

[2:24:39] um we don't know what McGomery County is going to do at this point in time. I do

[2:24:44] know that Conro has uh I don't I'm sure y'all seen the headlines that Conro is

[2:24:49] going for 20%. So, uh, what that's going to equate to is this 81 the second year

[2:24:57] of the the pay parody. So, it'll be >> pay it'll be the 81. Uh, I know that,

[2:25:04] uh, Houston has adopted the 81, which I was very surprised that they did that.

[2:25:08] Um, so it's just

[2:25:14] we were last year when we presented this, uh, we wanted to stay with the pay

[2:25:21] parody and we knew we had to bring it back year-over-year to to, uh, just be

[2:25:26] competitive. Um, I'm thankful last year that we were able to do that and get

[2:25:32] that first year uh, up higher. Um, and knowing that we got it up that higher,

[2:25:38] that's the reason why I came back with a lower number this year because I knew it

[2:25:43] wouldn't be as big of an impact. Um, but if y'all have any questions about

[2:25:50] it, >> how how far out of the line did we

[2:25:55] last year? I don't remember the numbers in front of us, but how far out of a

[2:26:00] line were we? So, so we went we went above um at we actually hit above

[2:26:06] McGomery Countyy's 70 um because we didn't know where they were going to be

[2:26:10] at at that time. They hadn't come back with the numbers

[2:26:13] » and that was from what number that up. >> I can pull that. Sorry. I'm going to

[2:26:18] pull that presentation up. >> The their their previous year I believe

[2:26:21] it was 70 I meant 60 and then went to 70.

[2:26:25] » Okay. Um, and then we went we did se we went to

[2:26:30] 75. So

[2:26:35] I knew that there would be less of an impact, but I did reduce it. I reduced

[2:26:40] it down to 78. So uh, as starting pay, so it wouldn't

[2:26:46] match the 81, but I knew it would be less of an impact there.

[2:26:51] » Yeah. >> So it would be from 75 to 78.

[2:26:56] Chief, uh, isn't Conro's 20% jump? That's really because they didn't do

[2:27:03] anything last year. Is that right? >> They they didn't do anything last year,

[2:27:07] correct? And they lost they lost personnel. I think

[2:27:10] » they lost personnel. So, >> they finally woke up and

[2:27:12] » and then they jumped on board and then they got with the pay parody too. But

[2:27:16] they also had a new chief. Uh, and that new chief, uh, I believe was going into

[2:27:24] a new budget that that wasn't new council.

[2:27:27] » Yes, they have a new council as well. >> That's why it's so

[2:27:30] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[2:27:32] » Um, [clears throat] my I I guess my question is um, and I I tried to ask it

[2:27:40] the other day before, but I didn't formalize it. words

[2:27:44] wouldn't come out of my mouth correctly. >> I remember.

[2:27:46] » Yes, I know you do. [laughter] You still can't get my last name

[2:27:50] correct. Um

[2:27:54] but um part of me is is

[2:28:00] now as far as giving raises and and things of that nature and having people

[2:28:05] reach the next pay level. I I especially in the police department and excuse me,

[2:28:12] but that's you know you you place your lives in danger every single day. And so

[2:28:19] um I I believe that means something also. Uh and the um thing that I was

[2:28:27] thinking about though going back to it is parody. How how how much how long

[2:28:35] um let me reformalize this so I don't sound

[2:28:39] like >> how long is a piece of string?

[2:28:41] » Huh? >> How long is a piece of string?

[2:28:43] » Yeah. How long is a piece of string? I have no clue, Charlie, what that means.

[2:28:47] Uh but my my thing is is you know comparing ourselves to Montgomery County

[2:28:54] or Houston and [clears throat] you know those types of districts and and

[2:29:00] » right >> uh resources. Uh we've at some point

[2:29:04] we've got to say okay we've got to adopt we have to go back to the way we do it

[2:29:10] internally and trust in that. If we get out of alignment again, let's set those

[2:29:16] markers so that we're aware that we're moving into that dangerous territory

[2:29:21] again and make an adjustment if we can. I mean, financially,

[2:29:27] um, we don't know what the future holds.

[2:29:30] There's so many landmines out there with the state, uh, you know, and regulations

[2:29:34] they're going to put on us as far as taxes. But um I I just I I guess it's

[2:29:40] the word parody and having to do this big research thing going on and on. I

[2:29:45] think if we've need to readjust our uh what we pay people that needs to be

[2:29:51] identified and [clears throat] we get on a good schedule for that. I every year

[2:29:56] coming back around and going so and so raised theirs up to this so we ought to

[2:30:00] do that. I'm going okay do does everybody deserve you know that

[2:30:07] bump up you just doing it across the board or is it just representative of

[2:30:12] that and everybody has to still meet their qualifications get certified in

[2:30:16] certain things because I know that each uh level is going to require a certain

[2:30:21] amount of income certain amount of benefits and so I just at what point do

[2:30:27] we pull it back in house Right. So, so the reason why it was brought again this

[2:30:33] year is because the pay parody was this plan was over a four-year plan that they

[2:30:39] they put out there. So, this was McGomery Countyy's plan uh that I have

[2:30:43] right here if you want to see it. And then Harris County had theirs and and

[2:30:47] Houston had theirs. So, I wanted to present what they had and that's what I

[2:30:53] presented last year. I presented >> Yeah. what they showed and and how uh it

[2:31:02] progresses over several years. Yeah. >> So, that's the reason why we brought it

[2:31:06] back again because we don't know where these other agencies are going to be

[2:31:09] because we haven't seen their budgets. I don't know where McGomery County is

[2:31:12] going to be. These are our direct competitors. So, Houston, because we've

[2:31:16] actually gathered some people from Houston, uh and McGomery County.

[2:31:20] » Yeah. >> Um so th those are our direct

[2:31:23] competitors. Houston, Harris County, McGomery County, and and Conro. And I

[2:31:28] know that we don't have as many calls and everything, but it's about the level

[2:31:32] of service and what the professionalism that we want to provide here in our

[2:31:36] city. We're a unique city and we we provide a different level of service.

[2:31:41] » Um, Shannidoa is we're known we're known for our professionalism. more known for

[2:31:46] our ability to to apprehend uh criminals because of the level of service we

[2:31:51] provide and the type of personnel that we hire and the way we conduct our

[2:31:55] business, the way we train our guys and and the uh the officer readiness program

[2:32:01] and everything. So, um, you know, there's there's certain

[2:32:05] expectation with the Shannondo Police Department,

[2:32:09] » but you know, we had to bring it over year over year just because,

[2:32:13] » you know, that was part of the pay parody um that we had to show, hey,

[2:32:18] look, we're we're bringing this back because this is what we know our

[2:32:22] competitors are are bringing and um, >> yeah,

[2:32:27] » this is what they said they're bringing. We don't know. We don't know if McGomery

[2:32:30] County is going to come in and say, "Hey, we're not doing anything." We have

[2:32:33] no idea. But I can just tell you that, you know, Harris County came in. Uh I

[2:32:37] mean, um Houston came in and then we know that Conro did. Yeah.

[2:32:41] » So, you know, we had to bring up something.

[2:32:45] » Um you know, because we didn't know where anybody was going to be.

[2:32:48] » Yeah. And I and I goodness I I appreciate one thing your your

[2:32:52] philosophy approach uh to how you know the Shannidora Police Department should

[2:32:57] not be reactive but should be proactive and uh I think to have individuals like

[2:33:04] that you want them to be of the highest caliber uh in their uh responsibility.

[2:33:09] So no and I'm just you know I'm just I guess it's mainly for me it's it's how

[2:33:15] we're evaluating it. you know, I want to make sure that and I've even expressed

[2:33:20] this to uh Sam about, you know, performance-based

[2:33:26] uh and certification base and you know, we want the right people,

[2:33:30] » right? And um the question is um but I I know and understand the necessity

[2:33:39] um for um well and this goes to you're picking

[2:33:45] your guys go through a probation cycle. So you're you're able to observe people.

[2:33:50] You're able to watch them and you have an understanding expectation and the

[2:33:54] thing that you say if you stay here's how we're going to take care of you and

[2:33:58] your family. Correct. you know, and I appreciate that. And I'm and I'm not

[2:34:03] [clears throat] >> uh saying trying to say anything. I just

[2:34:06] people are, >> you know, you're just uh $2 worth.

[2:34:10] You're worth $2 an hour more, >> whatever. That's that's not the thing

[2:34:15] I'm trying to communicate. The thing I'm trying to get to is the level of our

[2:34:20] responsibility of are we making our decisions based on uh our your

[2:34:27] day-to-day operations with the individuals that are working in your

[2:34:30] department or are we being influenced by okay Montgomery County bumped it up,

[2:34:36] Houston bumped it up, you know. >> Well, unfort [clears throat]

[2:34:38] fortunately that's just that's how the the game is played. Um, you

[2:34:44] know, when it comes to law enforcement, you know, money talks.

[2:34:48] » Yep. >> And and you have to to understand that

[2:34:51] and know that um in law enforcement uh you have to be very careful when it

[2:34:59] comes to performance-based uh pay. Yeah.

[2:35:03] » Because that can get you in a lot of trouble in court.

[2:35:06] » So, um that's something you really want to avoid. Um

[2:35:10] » well I think what I'm saying in performance and I'm not saying in how

[2:35:14] many tickets can you write >> right

[2:35:16] » that's not so that would be yeah that >> that's a word jumbo right there.

[2:35:23] » Yeah. Well well this you know law enforcement is a profession that you're

[2:35:28] you paying for uh for the position that you're expected

[2:35:34] to perform at at at the at the at the given level.

[2:35:38] uh if you don't perform then you you know you have pips you can pip a person

[2:35:43] improve your performance or or you're out of here

[2:35:47] » because you're paying for the position >> okay

[2:35:49] » you're paying for the position you're not paying for the

[2:35:52] » uh because that person is not going to be you know it could be very slow for an

[2:35:56] entire week. >> Yeah.

[2:35:58] » And then that weekend it could just light up.

[2:36:00] » Yeah. And how you perform during the week when it's slow doesn't correlate to

[2:36:05] how you perform on the weekend when everything is, you know, is

[2:36:11] » the adrenaline is going to be at a different level at certain times.

[2:36:13] » Right. Right. Exactly. So you're paying you're actually paying for the position

[2:36:18] that and and that person filling that position is expected.

[2:36:22] » Yeah. >> To perform at a at the given level. And

[2:36:25] and I guess that's part of what it you know you used the term PIP and I I don't

[2:36:29] have no clue what that means but I'm sure it's a performance improvement.

[2:36:34] Okay. >> And so you know my thing is is there are

[2:36:39] measurements that that we're doing. We're not we're not just saying I'm

[2:36:44] bumping you up period. You know, regardless of how you I felt you and

[2:36:49] it's a lot of my deter a lot of my saying this or bringing this up is for

[2:36:53] our citizens who are listening, you know, they're not sitting in here and

[2:36:57] hearing about this and and there's a lot that

[2:37:04] we're getting here in Shannondoa because we made that adjustment.

[2:37:10] uh you know, but I don't want to see I I see these uh I don't want us to be

[2:37:18] almost representing we're still being reactive, right?

[2:37:22] » You know, I mean, if we have, you know, if we want if we need to change the

[2:37:26] stages and how much they make, then let's do that. you know, let's make a

[2:37:32] let's make a determination and uh make sure that we as a council

[2:37:37] can can agree upon something that that strengthens that and you know

[2:37:44] supports that uh being reactive and I know you say it I know it is the game

[2:37:51] you know um but at some point in the game we're not going to be able to pay

[2:37:57] those based on our city size And we are going to have to cut back and you know

[2:38:03] you're going to have to be down an officer for us to get I which is not

[2:38:07] what we want. We need to you know we want to increase it more because we

[2:38:12] believe there's great things in store for Shandoa and so we want it to be you

[2:38:18] know taken care of. But uh I just think that I'm I'm just hoping that we can get

[2:38:23] to a place to where it's >> Yes. and and and so and then that's the

[2:38:28] reason why I brought back the numbers. I did I didn't go back with their their

[2:38:34] numbers. I came back with a lower number because I understood the impact it was

[2:38:38] going to have to the city. >> Uh we we can't I don't have a crystal

[2:38:42] ball so I can't tell what the budget's going to be or anything like that what

[2:38:45] we're going to have available. >> So I I knew that going forward Lisa and

[2:38:50] I have talked about this. adnauseium as far as understanding that that

[2:38:56] this goal of of pay parody the end goal of

[2:39:03] 101,000 per officer for starting pay we the the ability for that to be

[2:39:09] obtainable is it's very unlikely

[2:39:15] » I I I don't see that happening but we have to stay competitive

[2:39:22] Because if if if we're not, then you stand the chance of losing personnel.

[2:39:27] » Yeah. >> And you don't want to be behind there.

[2:39:29] You don't want to be reactive with it and wait till you're losing people and

[2:39:33] then you you get in a crunch where like before we're down six officers, five

[2:39:38] officers, and then we're having to raise the pay [snorts] in order to try to get

[2:39:43] PE personnel. You you want to stay ahead of that game so you can constantly have

[2:39:48] a steady flow of people. But at the same time, I definitely understand that

[2:39:54] there there's also a budget crisis, right? So that's the reason why I came

[2:39:58] in with the numbers I did and I and I lowered I cut it in half uh compared to

[2:40:03] » to what it was supposed to be. >> Yeah. And what one of the points that I

[2:40:07] wanted to make is that, you know, we wanted we I just want to get something

[2:40:13] um some, you know, warning signs because we got out of alignment,

[2:40:19] » you know, we just went out of alignment, you know, with pay and then all of a

[2:40:24] sudden we have this, you know, type of uh large crevice that we had to,

[2:40:32] you know, cross and build a bridge and and it it was a you know a tax increase

[2:40:37] and and if it makes sense it makes sense >> right

[2:40:40] » but um I I just want to make internally we need to have guidelines established

[2:40:46] like hey you know this is this is the exact same

[2:40:52] thing that happened that took us to where we were nonresponsive if we have

[2:40:57] to do a parody evaluation every three years or whatever uh I mean is it but if

[2:41:04] that realistically has to happen every year. Then,

[2:41:09] you know, we set the reasons why, you know, not just,

[2:41:14] you know, we here it is. We're early on setting our budget and we're going to

[2:41:19] get ahead of people and then we read it wrong. And that's not a bad thing. It's

[2:41:22] still a good thing. If we can if we can pay our officers more, that's a

[2:41:26] tremendously good thing. I see. and and yeah, I would love to us to be in a

[2:41:32] position to help them and to help all of our employees, but we have a

[2:41:36] responsibility to our citizens and to the businesses around us, [snorts] you

[2:41:40] know, um to be responsible with the money.

[2:41:45] » You made a good point there. We have a responsibility to the citizens. I think

[2:41:49] it's important to understand that we have a responsibility to the citizens

[2:41:52] and that responsibility is to make sure that we have the absolute best that we

[2:41:56] can deliver in the way of services. Absolutely.

[2:41:58] » Always think about that. What's the best benefit for the resident? I want them to

[2:42:02] have the best officers out there. >> I want them to have the best public

[2:42:06] works people out there. >> We were really in a good position if I

[2:42:10] recall until external forces changed that dynamic. Isn't that right? Start.

[2:42:17] Did it start with the DPS or >> It started with DPS and then in order

[2:42:22] people were losing officers to DPS uh because DPS starting pay was it's

[2:42:28] it's still very high. >> Uh and then Harris County and uh Houston

[2:42:33] got on board and then McGomery County and it just snowballed and it was

[2:42:39] » it's been moving south. So Dallas area was the first to see these major hikes.

[2:42:44] Um and then it started trickling down south.

[2:42:47] » Um it hasn't got Yeah. So it's it's been slowly coming down. Pretty much any of

[2:42:52] your larger metropolitan areas were hit all having the same parity issues. And

[2:42:57] it was nationwide. It wasn't even just Texas. It's nationwide.

[2:43:01] » The the the amount of it's all about the amount of officers

[2:43:07] that are out there >> versus the amount of positions that are

[2:43:10] available. >> Supply and demand.

[2:43:11] » Yeah. >> Supply and demand. there's just not

[2:43:13] enough supply. >> So, how do you increase that supply? You

[2:43:19] know, the media's just devastating law enforcement. They're devastating law

[2:43:24] enforcement. >> And so, just getting personnel, it's

[2:43:28] it's difficult. >> Yeah. What happened in the nation

[2:43:31] definitely wasn't uncontrollable, unforeseen. and and we're we're blessed

[2:43:35] to be down here and not close to Dallas because that area is significantly

[2:43:41] higher in pay significantly. >> So down here it it we're not as

[2:43:49] [clears throat] high as Dallas area, but you know, we have to stay competitive,

[2:43:53] you know, so we don't look get into that >> hole where we at.

[2:43:58] » Yeah. So Mr.

[2:44:01] and Sam and Lisa. I'd like to propose that Lisa take this

[2:44:10] » amount that he he's asking for per officer, whatever, but apply it to

[2:44:16] the the personnel expenses of the police department

[2:44:21] before we adopt the budget and let us see it that way. I think it would be a

[2:44:26] lot better than just talking about all these attributes and everything if it's

[2:44:31] all right with >> Yeah.

[2:44:33] » Did I make sense? >> 937,000 to your personnel budget.

[2:44:38] » Bottom line, you want to see what the what the net is and what it how it

[2:44:42] affects the tax rate >> at the end of the day.

[2:44:44] » Right. >> That gives you a true comparison of

[2:44:46] where we are now and what we could be. >> That's all. So

[2:44:50] » I can tell you off the top of my head, you're going to have to go right below

[2:44:53] the B to accomplish this. Did you say that it's an add-on, right? Of

[2:44:57] » Yeah. 137,000. [snorts] So, you would have to go right below the

[2:45:00] B at the 1918 to accomplish this p this pay scale.

[2:45:04] » I've already worked it out. Yeah. >> No, no, [laughter] le if everything

[2:45:07] stays the same. I'm just trying to put it in perspective.

[2:45:12] » Yeah. So, it would it would it would you would have to go up to right below your

[2:45:15] B. >> I understand, Chief. I know him well.

[2:45:18] You know what I mean? I understand Joe. I know him equally as well. I know where

[2:45:22] both [snorts] of them are coming from today and And but monetarily I don't you

[2:45:28] know what I mean >> in in the in our picture that we're

[2:45:32] talking about. >> Yeah.

[2:45:35] » The number you're asking for and the number you're just saying it was what

[2:45:38] stage in the parody plan. >> This would be introduced in this what he

[2:45:43] had proposed on this scale. >> Okay.

[2:45:45] » That's in the MMO. So like if I add it I'm just going to do it as a one lump

[2:45:48] sum. So it would be one >> Chinese finance method there

[2:45:52] » 137. 7127. So it would bring your budget deficit to

[2:45:57] 183 um

[2:46:01] or you would need an additional 117,000. So you would have to raise your tax

[2:46:05] rate. >> So right now 117 my

[2:46:07] » it [clears throat] would that would be your bottom line that you would need to

[2:46:10] make up to balance your budget. So, >> so the tax rate

[2:46:14] » in my thing, we're got a we're to the good 91,4

[2:46:20] 91,400. >> I know you don't see this, but

[2:46:25] » yeah. So the anticipated >> I put all the scenario

[2:46:28] » the anticipated budget surplus as of the proposal date was 69,15

[2:46:33] and then when we calculate all these changes to um the um insuranceances

[2:46:39] contribution >> that's my whole point put it all in with

[2:46:42] that. >> So it brings you down to so this

[2:46:46] highlighted section right here is your difference then it's the 117988.

[2:46:52] So you would have to raise taxes to um give me one moment. Look at that real

[2:46:59] quick. >> Would the NR

[2:47:01] » No, you would have to go >> above the

[2:47:03] » Yeah, you would probably have to go right below the B.

[2:47:07] » So what? Wait a minute. What would if we if we are going to revise our reserve

[2:47:13] policy? >> This is a recurrent item.

[2:47:17] » Ask this question. I want to you you might be very right about that but I'm

[2:47:21] not sure. Okay. So you have to help me understand that. But uh Sam, isn't it

[2:47:28] possible or is it possible that we could allocate out of the because we make the

[2:47:36] change in that 90 days versus 180 days that we have freed up some resources

[2:47:42] that we as a since we established policy here, financial, fiscal policy, can we

[2:47:48] not allocate some of that? >> Sure. to the police department to cover

[2:47:52] some of this expense and keep from raising the taxes.

[2:47:56] » Well, as Lisa indicated, the the reserves are for one-time expenses to be

[2:48:02] able to fund this and continue to fund. >> Is that because is that statuto?

[2:48:06] » You would have a reoccurring. >> Is that statuto?

[2:48:09] » We can definitely get some. >> It's a it's not a best practice. Um the

[2:48:13] situation is because you're always going to be then behind. So,

[2:48:16] » well, wait a minute. Wait. From what I if I understand what you're saying, I

[2:48:20] don't know if [snorts] if we make an agree if we set

[2:48:25] policy that the reserves are 90 or 120 the difference of that is not how is

[2:48:34] that going to be applied to a one time moment if that's

[2:48:40] » exactly that's my question too. >> So that is because it's so this is the

[2:48:44] situation you can run into. I'm going to be realistic with you. Okay.

[2:48:47] » If you keep using available cash and you're not bringing in additional

[2:48:50] revenue, you're eventually going to zero out your

[2:48:52] » That's right. But we need a a gap period here where we can cover these expenses,

[2:48:59] not raise taxes, and get out there and do what we need to do to generate more

[2:49:03] revenue for the city. And we're having some discussions about how we can do

[2:49:07] that. I'm just I'm looking for a period, give us a give us a a year to work

[2:49:13] through this. >> Yeah. And I agree with you that

[2:49:17] » extra money sitting over here is not a long term if that money's been

[2:49:21] » and that's why the best practice is always to net you know

[2:49:24] » but if we can if we change it and say that it's 120 or or 90 days and whatever

[2:49:31] that difference is that frees that up to be used how we set policy on it.

[2:49:38] » Correct. >> Correct.

[2:49:39] » Okay. So >> yeah,

[2:49:40] » if we we wanted to use that best practice or not,

[2:49:44] » um I come from a family of accountants. >> No, you're good. Sorry, my phone was

[2:49:49] going. So the uh uh if we use that money to get us through,

[2:49:56] if we find something that can continue to feed this and take care of it ongoing

[2:50:02] for the future. Okay. But that buys us the time

[2:50:07] » to get there without raising the taxes during this time.

[2:50:11] » Is that what >> Yes.

[2:50:12] » Yeah. The only fact is >> what if that doesn't come to fruition?

[2:50:16] » Doesn't matter. Now you're behind >> there. So many what ifs in the world.

[2:50:19] Yeah. >> What if you know the press would

[2:50:22] actually tell the truth and police officers would

[2:50:25] » I'm just giving you my opinion of best practice and everything else

[2:50:29] » and that's what you're supposed to be doing and I appreciate that but I'm just

[2:50:33] » Yeah. That's why you're sitting where you're

[2:50:35] sitting. >> That's right. And we thank you for that.

[2:50:38] » Yeah. And thanks. No. and and and because I

[2:50:43] it's I think what it is and it's not it's not saying to uh we want to

[2:50:51] we're making decisions uh that are it's a gamble

[2:50:57] » that [snorts] we might find something >> and you're kind of committing to a

[2:51:00] future possibility like you're making a decision now that could affect a future.

[2:51:05] That's the only thing is you want to make sure.

[2:51:07] » Yeah. Now we're making a decision not to raise taxes and use this money to cover

[2:51:11] that >> until

[2:51:13] » whatever, you know, can be put in place to support it ongoing past that time.

[2:51:19] » It's it's it's like saying we know somebody's moving in, but they're not

[2:51:24] going to be here for a couple of years, >> you know, but can we cover it between

[2:51:29] now and then without raising taxes? >> I look at it as it's it's the cost of

[2:51:34] doing business when you're investing. You're investing in your future right

[2:51:37] now and you have to take a little risk >> and that doesn't impact the reserves.

[2:51:45] It's it's >> well the the committed the 180

[2:51:48] committed. Yeah. >> If

[2:51:49] » Yeah. Yeah. It won't affect that because that goes totally restricted out. So

[2:51:53] you're just hitting like the unassigned fund balance. That's so it's you're not

[2:51:57] you're not messing with your restricted reserves. That's what I was trying to

[2:52:00] Yeah. >> Exactly. Exactly.

[2:52:03] We have an item on the budget in revenue and it's called fund balance and that's

[2:52:08] the the place where we fill deficits, okay, from in the general fund and it

[2:52:15] comes from available cash. It comes from the next item we're going to talk about

[2:52:21] trash pickup, okay? It comes from cutting expenses. I mean, it can come

[2:52:26] from a lot of different ways or raising taxes. Okay? What we don't want to do is

[2:52:32] raise taxes. We don't want to. But then again, we want to keep the police

[2:52:37] department >> 100%.

[2:52:40] » That's the whole thing we're talking about.

[2:52:42] » Yeah. >> So, if we just make it a common dollars

[2:52:45] and cents, here's what it is. Then we can make a better decision and get all

[2:52:49] of the emotions out of this conversation.

[2:52:52] » Yeah. That's all I would say, you know,

[2:52:58] because I want to do the the best that we can for everybody. Can we do it? Can

[2:53:04] we not? At least we'll know. >> And can we support it long term,

[2:53:08] » right? >> Yeah.

[2:53:09] Now, if we did something with the trash, it's going to go right back to the

[2:53:13] residents. I mean, it's

[2:53:16] » Yeah. >> Period.

[2:53:18] » Might as well raise the taxes. >> And we don't know what the state's going

[2:53:21] to do to us. No, I'm just saying I just brought it up

[2:53:25] because it's on the the next time. >> So, if I hear you right, what we want to

[2:53:32] do is whatever that difference is between the 180 to 90day reserve. See

[2:53:39] what that fallout is. Can that cover the gap?

[2:53:43] » Yeah. >> That we're looking at without having to

[2:53:45] raise taxes >> after the 3 million.

[2:53:47] » Right. I'm saying if we don't bring it to 90, maybe 120 or so, whatever that

[2:53:53] number is, how >> see what that is.

[2:53:54] » Yeah. >> Protects us still, but

[2:53:58] » we'll just have to evaluate that each year.

[2:54:01] » And we'll have to evaluate that this time next year to see where that outfall

[2:54:06] is. >> Okay.

[2:54:11] » If that makes sense. All right. It's all I

[2:54:15] » So just for my knowledge uh not so I can compose the budget document. We're going

[2:54:21] with the year 2 parody as presented. >> Present whatever he's presented.

[2:54:26] » Exactly. >> Yeah.

[2:54:28] » I was on this. I was like >> we don't have to rework anything. We're

[2:54:32] no good. >> You just got to put it

[2:54:34] » put it in one lump sum. Say okay here it is.

[2:54:40] » Okay. takes the emotion and everything out then we can figure out how to pay

[2:54:44] for it. >> Okay.

[2:54:47] » No, >> we will. Right.

[2:54:49] » Yeah. >> Okay. So, I will add that to the

[2:54:52] » It won't I'll add it to the different buckets it needs to hit, but I'll put it

[2:54:57] as a separate breakout on the budget document as well so you can see it.

[2:55:01] Yeah. >> If it affects other sides of the budget,

[2:55:04] we want to know that, too. Okay. So, that's why I asked the way I asked.

[2:55:08] It's going to be more work for you. Yes. But

[2:55:11] » yeah. >> Okay.

[2:55:12] » Sorry. Last year I had to break out all the insurance stuff. Remember that? That

[2:55:15] was a lot [laughter] work. >> Do

[2:55:18] » That's not nearly as >> I thought that was a good thing. I know

[2:55:20] you wanted to bring it out of non department, but yeah.

[2:55:25] » Okay. So, I will add that, but I'll add it as a separate section.

[2:55:29] » Rich, what's the true cost of a police officer? You know,

[2:55:33] » true cost of water. >> Exactly. Yeah.

[2:55:35] » Yeah. Okay.

[2:55:38] » And never >> It's true.

[2:55:45] » Okay. So, I will bring that back. >> There's a price. There's a price and a

[2:55:48] cost. >> Yeah.

[2:55:50] » Cost account, same account. >> Do you want to call break for the

[2:55:55] contract? >> Let's go over the the uh the trash real

[2:55:58] quick pick up right quick.

[2:56:02] » So, um Joseph, I think, is leading this one. Um but I'll let him start and then

[2:56:08] I can give go over some of the cost differentials.

[2:56:14] » Yeah. So staff uh at council's request collected information from our current

[2:56:22] trash provider of public services uh to answer two questions. um you know

[2:56:28] what would it cost to add one additional bulk collection day to our current

[2:56:34] contract which was uh one bulk per month. So question one is what would it

[2:56:39] cost to make two bulk per month? And the second question is how much would it

[2:56:44] cost to make a bulk collection every day which is similar to our old contract

[2:56:49] » and I'm still trying to find that here. Uh but

[2:56:52] » oh it's the um the uh >> in the wrong tab. I know I saw it

[2:56:58] somewhere in here. >> Blue

[2:57:00] » blue tab. Thanks. Oh, there it is. Uh and so Republic Services got those

[2:57:06] prices back which we've presented here uh to council.

[2:57:11] » And the the first thing I want to point out is that the answer to

[2:57:17] question one which is adding one additional bulk is there would be a $2

[2:57:23] increase to our our current rate >> and that would not affect the contract

[2:57:29] adversely. >> Correct. So, a contract when you bid out

[2:57:34] competitively bid a contract and award it, if you're going to make changes and

[2:57:38] amendments to that contract, you have to keep the price of it within 25% whether

[2:57:42] you increase it or subtract it. So, adding $2 to this, it still keeps you

[2:57:49] within that 25% cost of an increase to the contract, the overall contract. Now,

[2:57:54] the answer to question two, a bulk collection every day of the week, that

[2:57:59] exceeded that 25%. Uh, so we can't even really consider

[2:58:04] that because it well, if council wanted to do that, it would require rebidding.

[2:58:08] » There you go. So, now we got everything in place,

[2:58:11] » right? So, we we'd need to rebid the entire uh contract and you could end up

[2:58:16] with another service provider and we get to face what we had just last year of

[2:58:24] everyone complaining about the new trash service. Uh just because it's it would

[2:58:27] be a change. Uh it would be different trucks, different collection crews. Um

[2:58:33] and you could end up with a higher price. Likely you would end up with a

[2:58:37] higher price. [snorts] So, um you've got the information before you, uh the cost

[2:58:43] of what what it would take to add one additional bulk collection day and every

[2:58:50] additional or every day being a bulk collection day. Um happy to answer any

[2:58:55] questions you have. >> Well, now you brought up [snorts] extra

[2:58:58] cans, which I get that question all the time. And the fact that it's 750 per can

[2:59:04] per month, it's not the can. They're it's the trash that you put in that can

[2:59:09] that they're hauling to the dump, >> right? That's a lot of the cost is the

[2:59:13] disposal fees. >> That is the cost.

[2:59:16] » And uh so that is on not on the city, that's on the res.

[2:59:22] » It is. And and it's >> totally I understand. And it's it's

[2:59:25] worth noting as as you consider adding bulk days that and Lisa found this just

[2:59:32] a little over 2% of our residents uh have an extra can which you know says

[2:59:39] to me that everyone else probably has what they need for the collection. Uh,

[2:59:44] so I'd just, you know, keep that in the back of your mind as as you're thinking

[2:59:47] about this because it it does add quite a bit to the uh to the entire contract

[2:59:53] to to do this increase. But again, that's that's council's prerogative uh

[2:59:58] of of that service and and what level of service we want to provide with our

[3:00:01] contractor. >> What was the percentage that

[3:00:06] wanted a pickup additional pickups?

[3:00:11] I I we haven't >> we don't have any date on that. It's

[3:00:15] just I know that some council members have heard from some folks

[3:00:19] » to see what it would cost, but >> I was one of them and I had 10

[3:00:23] » 10 people called me. >> I suspect this is this is more an issue

[3:00:28] of poor planning for me and my neighbors rather than an actual need for an

[3:00:32] additional >> True Ernie. What's a and and I also

[3:00:35] imagine that if we raise taxes to cover additional bulk pickup days, the hue and

[3:00:39] cry would be far greater than we need to have more bulk trash days.

[3:00:43] » I totally agree. >> So I really don't for me I personally

[3:00:46] wouldn't support any additional heavy trash days because you guys have this

[3:00:50] amazing we have this amazing yearly deal here anywhere where where

[3:00:54] » if you got a year >> if you have if you have a bulk if you

[3:00:57] have a I don't know a can of plutonium you can bring it here. No one's asking

[3:01:00] any questions. Yeah. >> So, um I think I like you just made that

[3:01:05] public. >> Look, you can buy uranium on Amazon.

[3:01:10] » You weren't going to say anything, remember?

[3:01:13] » But but the thing is >> the the only thing that I've heard that

[3:01:17] that is that is curious to me is that when people have have said that, hey,

[3:01:20] they missed my cans today. Now, that's unacceptable. If we're paying the guys

[3:01:24] to take care of the business, they need to take care of their business. that

[3:01:27] that's that's an administrative thing between you guys and our and our and our

[3:01:30] vendors. Other than that, I like the new service. I love the new cans because

[3:01:34] they're not dragging mine across the pavement to make holes where water will

[3:01:38] get out. Uh I think it's for us it's been working well and we we're one of

[3:01:42] the 2% that pays for the extra can. We use it. We're happy to pay it. Um but

[3:01:47] again, I think the bulk trash day is just a matter of me and my neighbors

[3:01:50] poorly planning. >> You know, it seems like things have

[3:01:53] really settled down now. Yes. >> Don't you think?

[3:01:57] » Not hearing [clears throat] any concerns anymore.

[3:01:59] » Most of the complaints that me and Tammy get is just if it was missed.

[3:02:04] » I think that's legitimate because >> maybe the one

[3:02:06] » there's no >> one time a month for the bulk pickup

[3:02:09] seems to be acceptable. >> And this is a result of their requests.

[3:02:14] » And and we have spoken with Republic about mist trash. And here here's the

[3:02:18] the fun thing about that is all their trucks have cameras. And so they just

[3:02:23] produced a report just a little while ago for me which show it is about two

[3:02:26] full pages of a tint type font of miss trash reports

[3:02:30] » and only about 20% maybe um were because of the truck

[3:02:36] missed it. The others the cans were not out there when the truck went by.

[3:02:40] » I suspected that. >> I saw that movie. That's great that

[3:02:44] that's >> Now, now there are times where there

[3:02:47] there's some like Lily in particular, they've got some pretty narrow roads and

[3:02:51] there's one in particular where people like to park on the turn. The truck

[3:02:54] can't make it. They simply cannot fit down that alley and so they do miss, you

[3:03:00] know, there's some areas like that where >> Yeah.

[3:03:02] » And and we've tried to work with the HOAs, hey, please speak with your

[3:03:05] residents on trash day at least. Don't park your vehicles there because you're

[3:03:08] preventing trash collection. Um, but sometimes the guys just flat out don't

[3:03:13] miss it. >> Not not too often, but

[3:03:16] » I'm not strong enough to pick up a car. >> No. Okay.

[3:03:20] » And a lot of the time you address trash day. What is available? What is

[3:03:27] correct to put out there and what is not? There is no list.

[3:03:32] » Yeah, I'm so on the website there's there's still a list.

[3:03:35] » All right. >> Yeah. And it's similar to what

[3:03:38] » I couldn't find it, but that's that's my problem.

[3:03:40] » It'll they'll take bulky trash up to three yards or five yards. Actually, it

[3:03:45] went up uh on Bulk Bay. It used to be three, so up to five yards, which is

[3:03:49] basically a dumpster >> full. So, they'll take couches. Uh what

[3:03:53] what they will not take is construction waste. So, if you've got a bunch of

[3:03:57] » tile out there and fence posts and it looks like you're running a business,

[3:04:03] » that's they're not going to take that. And the other because my department

[3:04:08] feels a lot of those complaints that come in um is on bulk days because the

[3:04:13] trucks do fill up quite quickly. So they have to leave and come back. So that's a

[3:04:18] lot of their calls is hey they missed me but they're just on their way back. They

[3:04:21] just had to empty the truck. >> Yeah. So, um, [clears throat] but yes,

[3:04:25] Joseph's point, we've had several complaints and then when we reach out to

[3:04:30] the Republic, they have the documentation to provide us that yes,

[3:04:33] there was masonary materials that they will not pick up, so they won't empty

[3:04:37] the trash can. >> So, Home Depot has these really strong

[3:04:41] bags that you can put pretty much anything and just wire wire them shut.

[3:04:45] » I'm just saying. >> Put it in that blue thing and away it

[3:04:48] goes.

[3:04:51] So, um, the only thing I said, you know, I made recommendation [snorts] on this,

[3:04:56] uh, memo that if we did want to go with a second bulk day, um, to avoid

[3:05:02] increasing the operational budget by 125,000, we would it would only be like

[3:05:06] a $2 per month per bill increase. If we wanted to do a second bulk pickup, that

[3:05:12] would just go to the residential. >> Um, that would have to be all across all

[3:05:16] 12,400, whatever. >> Yes. Yes. That applied to every

[3:05:19] » residential account. We only service residential. We don't service

[3:05:22] commercial. >> Yeah. So that would be um the alternate

[3:05:26] if you wanted to add that second bulk day. Either you would have to increase

[3:05:29] your revenue or you could put that charge onto the consumer.

[3:05:35] » I think we should just move forward. >> I need to forget that idea. Bad idea.

[3:05:40] » The consensus pretty much back to your >> We discussed it and that's

[3:05:45] » Yeah. >> Okay. What is the consensus in your

[3:05:47] paper? Just leave it alone. Leave it the same.

[3:05:53] » All right, moving along. Okay, so the next these were existing, this is an

[3:05:58] existing contract discussion. I do have a section for new contract proposals. Um

[3:06:03] I will let u public works handle this first one relating to SDK.

[3:06:09] » Anybody ready for a break? >> Oh yeah, sorry. All right, let's take

[3:06:12] » time flies in your >> 10 minutes again.

[3:06:17] Put everybody to sleep.

[3:06:35] » I'm drinking my beer.

[3:06:54] How do we change?

[3:07:21] No, I'm not.

[3:07:36] Word

[3:07:59] I was going to say

[3:08:03] I'll ask

[3:08:16] He's

[3:08:20] going

[3:08:28] [laughter]

[3:08:31] » my grandmother's from

[3:08:45] Zoom call.

[3:09:00] I >> was like I was like where are you from?

[3:09:04] He literally sounds like my uncle. I was like oh

[3:09:09] » Philadelphia. >> All right.

[3:09:12] » I asked my dad

[3:09:18] » my accent. >> It was

[3:09:22] actually

[3:09:28] funny. when I go back to New York.

[3:09:36] » Yeah. >> Yeah. And then

[3:09:42] she goes to look at me and she goes,

[3:09:47] » "What happened?"

[3:09:52] » Christmas, why is everyone yelling? I'm like, "We're not yelling. We're talking

[3:09:58] loud and

[3:10:07] by accident.

[3:10:25] What?

[3:10:50] » My brother

[3:11:08] We have to work

[3:11:25] people.

[3:11:29] » I was

[3:12:02] was like, "What?

[3:12:27] Just go to I don't care.

[3:12:34] You haven't seen >> those.

[3:12:58] Oh my god.

[3:13:26] Holy cow.

[3:13:31] » My old

[3:13:43] as soon as

[3:14:21] I wanted

[3:14:36] you know system

[3:14:43] No, but I'm saying

[3:15:06] They were supposed to

[3:15:39] You look so

[3:15:56] resume our discussion here. Lisa,

[3:16:01] » so um the next item will be for new contract proposals. The first one's

[3:16:05] going to be a traffic data analytics and um Joseph or will be able to handle that

[3:16:10] one. >> I'll go ahead and take that one. Uh so

[3:16:15] quick history on this. This stems from the conversations that council had

[3:16:21] regarding concerns with speeding and other traffic concerns in the valley. A

[3:16:26] traffic control uh traffic committee was formed for this. A survey as you know

[3:16:32] was distributed among the residents and like any good survey we had um some data

[3:16:39] collection questions and then the very last was open-ended to get a lot of

[3:16:43] information. Well, from the results of of all that, the scope quickly expanded

[3:16:49] from just the Shannondoa Valley to the city of Shannondoa and a lot of ideas,

[3:16:54] concerns, and and opinions given through that survey.

[3:16:58] And staff took that information and thought it would be useful to have a

[3:17:05] little more data as we're considering these concerns as reported through the

[3:17:10] survey and by city council. And so we reached out to just one company in

[3:17:15] particular. There's several out there, but we reached out to Urban SDK and they

[3:17:21] basically uh uh uh collect data from vehicle telemetrics, from satellite

[3:17:30] imagery, from dot information, and they they combine all of this uh and

[3:17:39] parse out really granular data. So you can look at not just one street but

[3:17:48] sections of that street between intersecting streets and you can get uh

[3:17:53] analytics about speed and what percentile of people traveling on that

[3:17:58] road at any given point are speeding going the speed limit or going slowly.

[3:18:04] And this is live information that they're capturing minuteby minute and

[3:18:09] you get access to that data. So, it can really help in decision- making as far

[3:18:14] as, hey, is this street really have a speeding problem or is it a speeding

[3:18:19] perception because you can look at the actual data of vehicles traveling down

[3:18:25] that road. Um, so in full transparency, there are you all you will have a few

[3:18:30] little gaps. So, this is really going to be more

[3:18:35] effective for vehicles that are built 2000 beyond. they have more of the

[3:18:39] sophisticated uh information that they're able to collect. Vehicles prior

[3:18:42] to that really don't have that data, but everybody's got a cell phone in your

[3:18:47] pocket. I mean, I'm sure you've seen on Google Maps, you know, when there's a

[3:18:52] slowdown, and that's because of data from telephones.

[3:18:56] And so, that data is collected by this company. And

[3:19:02] like I said, the granularity you get is is amazing. Um, I like to compare this

[3:19:08] to the traditional way of collecting uh traffic data, which is you do a you do a

[3:19:15] speed u study. We've done a few with bile engineering. They run anywhere from

[3:19:20] 5,000 to 10,000 per study. You select a few streets. You put out your tubes and

[3:19:26] you get a snapshot of data across a few days maybe. and then you pull your tubes

[3:19:33] and that's the amount of data you have for a $10,000 expense and it's helpful

[3:19:40] but it ages quickly and and it's just a snapshot.

[3:19:45] So, this company um and and I'll just tell you the price that they gave us uh

[3:19:53] basically to you know the idea is let's set the ceiling for for what uh we'd be

[3:19:58] willing to if council wanted to pursue this that we'd be willing to pay. It's

[3:20:02] basically 10,000 a year in a two-year contract. So, $20,000 gets you two years

[3:20:08] of access. Obviously, you can continue continue that if you see that there's

[3:20:13] value there. Um, but I tell you that number again just to set the ceiling of

[3:20:18] of the price that that you may see. Again, this is data that can help with

[3:20:24] decision- making that the traffic committee's been working on. You know,

[3:20:29] is there an area that's got speeding issues? Maybe at a stop sign, maybe you

[3:20:32] look at speed humps or bumps or or some sort of solution. And then the cool

[3:20:37] thing is you can implement that solution and then look at the data and see how it

[3:20:42] changes. But [clears throat] what as I remember being in that meeting, wasn't

[3:20:47] it more intuitive even it it would give you traffic flow, traffic congestion

[3:20:53] uh points also? So any studies that we want to see as far as supporting data

[3:21:00] information on um Grogan's Mill and Vision Park um all of

[3:21:08] these different areas, time of day. Uh it was a

[3:21:13] very impressive um you know data type of accessing um I

[3:21:22] guess software that that they can do. >> Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. But

[3:21:27] yes, they do have vehicle loading accounts basically

[3:21:30] » as well. and they have an AI component which just pulls the data specific to

[3:21:35] what you're looking at >> and you can ask it questions and it's

[3:21:38] not going to reach out to the internet and grab something that doesn't apply to

[3:21:41] what you're looking for but it uses internal data

[3:21:44] » and you can ask any questions to to really hone in quickly because it's a

[3:21:48] massive amount of data. Yeah. >> And that can really help you hone in on

[3:21:52] » Yeah. Because it even showed traffic traffic flow.

[3:21:56] You know, you you pick it. it provides whatever you dial into it um you know

[3:22:03] whatever the information you're looking for and yeah it was for the price uh I

[3:22:10] was surprised at how much data uh usable data within a reasonable time you know

[3:22:17] that you can get so so staff's questions are two one is this something that

[3:22:23] interests city council and two if it does then we'd recommend setting uh

[3:22:29] 20,000 uh because you you'd need the the funding up front, but you're only going

[3:22:34] to spend 10,000 per year up to 10,000 per year. But I'd say a funding of of

[3:22:38] $20,000 for this type of >> Has the Has the police department looked

[3:22:42] at it? And >> I was just going to ask

[3:22:44] » what are they going to what do they think about it? [clears throat]

[3:22:50] » What would you do with the data, Chief? that that would you assign an officer to

[3:22:55] to patrol that more or that's my

[3:23:00] » it's

[3:23:04] good question though I know [clears throat]

[3:23:06] so the data you know I I had I didn't see the actual program I just discussed

[3:23:13] it with Joseph and everything um I would actually have to see it myself to

[3:23:19] understand it and to understand the the whole uh concept [snorts] of it. Um I

[3:23:25] know you know the signs that we're putting up now they collect data but I

[3:23:29] don't know to the extent that they would collect with this. Um

[3:23:36] it just really depends on what I want to do with it. But yes, if we find a

[3:23:41] problem area, you know, we're just going to put people over there and and find

[3:23:45] the time frames uh that they're doing it. um

[3:23:49] » which is probably dry times and >> understand the point

[3:23:55] » for for the most of it [clears throat] we know the general times there's going

[3:24:00] to be the sporadic times that people speed through the residence

[3:24:04] um throughout the day there are and you're going to have your outliers and

[3:24:10] stuff like that um [clears throat] but for the most part

[3:24:16] you know we we Um, we sit in the areas that have the most uh traffic that

[3:24:24] and and complaints, but um >> this is a little different than a

[3:24:29] complaint. This is actual >> Yes, it's actual data. But but right now

[3:24:34] we're sitting there we're sitting at at locations uh that we do get a lot of

[3:24:39] complaints and >> it's like fishing though. you know,

[3:24:43] » it is it's it you're you're 100%. I I can tell you that uh I was going in

[3:24:50] there, you know, that I was going in the residence. I'm sitting up myself

[3:24:54] » asking you. Exactly. >> And so um what I found out that it was

[3:24:59] taking me um roughly an hour to to get a stop. Uh, and that stop was about

[3:25:10] the highest I was getting was, you know, 26 27 miles an hour. The average was 24

[3:25:16] miles an hour. That was the average. >> Now, as long as you've been an officer,

[3:25:19] you wouldn't you [clears throat] wouldn't think

[3:25:21] » to to me that that is a waste of a resource

[3:25:25] sitting at one location for a solid hour to get one traffic stop. Now we're down

[3:25:30] to do we spend $10,000 for that or just to make us feel better. [snorts]

[3:25:37] » Well, that's this is not the the traffic ones that the chief is putting in right

[3:25:42] now that they purchased. Those are >> the signs are signs, right?

[3:25:46] » Well, no, no, no. They're more than signs. They're they have a Doppler radar

[3:25:50] that reads uh and counts uh that vehicle going to the to the stop to the stop

[3:25:57] sign and away from the stop sign. It it also tells you uh the size of the

[3:26:03] vehicle if if it's uh uh you know FedEx or or someone else. So it gives you some

[3:26:10] more intuitive the product the software that Joseph's referring to that we

[3:26:16] watched. It's actually it's not a real time right now. We can pull up the data

[3:26:22] right now and see the car is going right now. It's not it does an averaging.

[3:26:27] So, uh that's one thing about it, but their data

[3:26:32] pulling it up uh has advantages to it. I guess my only question would be I liked

[3:26:39] what I saw because I thought it was amazing technology. My only question

[3:26:43] would be is is it usable data for making decisions on what we might want to do in

[3:26:52] an area? Oh, we need to in the future why why don't we should we make this a

[3:26:58] left turn lane here? you know, um, you know, we can are these type of data

[3:27:05] reads enough data to justify that or would the

[3:27:11] county say no, you have to go in and do these old studies, you know, where cars

[3:27:18] drive over it and do directional things. I I don't know if it's usable for, you

[3:27:24] know, making decisions on road changes. Do you know if this is the same

[3:27:30] equipment that the county uses because I I noticed those counters that the county

[3:27:36] put in on Mill. >> No. No. So this data that is collected

[3:27:42] is collected from the cars themselves. >> Okay.

[3:27:45] » And the cell phones of the people in those cars from satellite imagery. They

[3:27:50] they aggregate all of this data >> just like the apps on.

[3:27:54] » Yeah. They don't use signage. They don't use tubes. This comes straight from the

[3:27:58] vehicles and the people in those vehicles.

[3:28:00] » Now, I would I would propose that you put the money in the budget. It's not a

[3:28:04] commitment to sign a contract or buy anything, but you have at least covered

[3:28:09] the cost by putting it in the budget now and let them do some more

[3:28:15] work, research, termination, sell us on the concepts if if the council's feeling

[3:28:20] in that, you know, going in that direction.

[3:28:25] And I'll just add one of the use cases um because chief wasn't he wasn't able

[3:28:29] to make that presentation but we have talked about it um but one of the use

[3:28:33] cases they presented during that is and I'll [clears throat] use David Memorial

[3:28:38] as an example. It's speed limits 30 miles an hour and if you're looking at

[3:28:42] your data and it shows that on average you know

[3:28:47] people are going 45 miles an hour on that. Well, now the the police

[3:28:53] department has an idea of, hey, let's post an officer over there because

[3:28:56] people are speeding on it all the time and let's get them to slow down.

[3:29:00] » Count Council, I think Lieutenant Pulling, she was in on that meeting.

[3:29:06] If y'all want to ask her any questions regarding that, you want to

[3:29:10] » She got to be in. >> Yeah,

[3:29:13] we were on the mic. >> Come on. Come on over here. Take the

[3:29:17] mic. >> Chief was busy at the time, so

[3:29:23] just don't

[3:29:30] » Okay. So, when y'all were asking as far as behalf of the police department, it

[3:29:36] being beneficial for us. When I watched him explain that program,

[3:29:43] it didn't show to me any new information that we don't already know where the

[3:29:49] problem areas were. Now, yes, it does collect data as far as telling you the

[3:29:54] speed, the number of vehicles, so the the traffic congestion. It'll kind of

[3:30:00] narrow down like the traffic times of when the congestion's high. But the what

[3:30:06] I got out of it was that it was for more future

[3:30:12] I guess um information on for traffic control

[3:30:16] devices >> planning.

[3:30:18] » Yeah. That that's that's how I saw that program more. Now is it a cool program?

[3:30:23] It is. But it for the police department as far as the speeding problems or the

[3:30:28] stop sign problems and stuff like that and the times it's nothing different

[3:30:32] than what we already know. So

[3:30:36] » the reason I asked is that law enforcement it enforces claim areas.

[3:30:41] » Okay. What does that mean? You don't >> say that again.

[3:30:44] » It enforces in claim areas. This is their publication that they have

[3:30:51] planning or elected officials political champions for the livability.

[3:30:58] I don't see a lot of benefit in all that. I'm just thinking feature

[3:31:01] advantage benefit here. and you're answering a lot of the

[3:31:05] question. >> I just wanted the police point of view.

[3:31:08] » Right. Right. >> Yeah. And that's why I asked if I could

[3:31:11] speak on it since I was on that meeting because I understand for like maybe on a

[3:31:15] public work side or like future planning if if more construction is coming up or

[3:31:20] you know that type of thing that would be very beneficial. But as far as

[3:31:26] enforcement wise it's not going to change. I don't see it changing or

[3:31:29] helping us in any way. It may tell us it's it's kind of the same thing as

[3:31:34] putting, you know, the old school line across the road and getting a traffic

[3:31:38] count. I mean, that's just kind of how I saw it.

[3:31:41] » I mean, >> it does display uh the actual speed.

[3:31:45] » Yeah. >> Is that part of the deal?

[3:31:46] » It it it displays the feed uh the speed, the traffic flow.

[3:31:50] » Yeah. It's been kind of interesting. Even when even when it jams up

[3:31:54] » on Holly Hill, I've sat up in that parking lot just to watch the reaction

[3:31:57] of people when they hit that speed sign and you say those brakes the people hit

[3:32:02] it is causing people to react. >> It will

[3:32:05] » and slow them down. >> I I don't speed in the neighborhood but

[3:32:08] I and I slam on brakes too like oh no. >> So, you know, from a just it has an

[3:32:13] effect on people. >> Are they willing to let us run a pilot

[3:32:16] just to just to see what they're what kind of information they're going to

[3:32:18] provide? Yeah, they'd be happy to do a presentation to pilot. Let it run for 90

[3:32:23] days for free. >> It's running already.

[3:32:25] » Yeah, it's already running. Um, >> it's live data. They're collecting their

[3:32:30] data collection points. There's I kind of freaked out how many data points are

[3:32:34] in in a vehicle or on you that they're reading from and they're collecting it

[3:32:39] like that. >> So, you're saying you're saying we

[3:32:41] already have access to our neighborhood or our city?

[3:32:44] » So, let me explain that. So they're not going to do a pilot. Um

[3:32:50] » not to show you. >> Not not to show you. So anytime we met

[3:32:52] with them, uh they're very careful to show the live data from either the past

[3:32:58] week, past month, whatever data set they were looking at over there in Florida.

[3:33:02] » Uh except once. >> Yes.

[3:33:04] » Except once they they showed all of Shannondoa. Yeah.

[3:33:08] » And quickly moved it away. And I can tell you this from when we saw it and so

[3:33:11] they had everything color coded. Green being good, people are going the speed

[3:33:15] limit. Yellow was getting bad. Red is a high-speed area. Pretty much every

[3:33:20] street in Shannidoa was green. Um except the areas, as Lieutenant said, we

[3:33:26] already Wellman Road between the stop sign and I45.

[3:33:31] » Yes. >> Um so we saw that and they they quickly

[3:33:34] moved away because the data is already there. You're just paying for access to

[3:33:37] it. >> Yeah, I I get that the data is already

[3:33:39] there. I'm asking, but you've already answered the question. Um me personally,

[3:33:45] um coming from that world, I I wouldn't be willing to entertain their offer

[3:33:49] unless they were willing to show us data on our on our city as in a pilot. I

[3:33:54] understand from their position and understand what they think they're

[3:33:57] protecting, but traffic patterns change throughout seasons. Um if they're

[3:34:02] unwilling to share the product and software companies do this all the time

[3:34:06] and data companies do this all the time, I personally um I'm not interested in

[3:34:10] entertaining them. understood.

[3:34:14] » Nor am I just based on >> sir

[3:34:16] » and nor am I just based on that >> I don't see a need for this.

[3:34:22] » It's nice. It's cool to have but I'd rather put my money into compensation

[3:34:26] for our police officers. >> Same.

[3:34:29] » Yep. >> That makes sense.

[3:34:30] » I think it's a value needed when it's there

[3:34:34] » or nitrous for the cop cars.

[3:34:40] » Okay. Wonderful.

[3:34:42] » That's right. >> So

[3:34:45] is no sounds like I'm

[3:34:48] » see I'm going home.

[3:34:53] » Water work software. >> Okay. So I'll handle this one. Um but um

[3:34:58] so a couple months ago public works RL Joseph and I sat on a um web a web call

[3:35:05] with um water software. So basically what in a nutshell what they do is that

[3:35:10] it's a data analytic software that takes your live um utility bill and read data.

[3:35:18] It takes your pumpage data. It can take you can load in your CIP, your M, your

[3:35:22] maintenance operation budgets and it constantly uses your trends of it. It

[3:35:29] creates basically a continuous rate study. That's what it does. Um so and it

[3:35:35] also can help aid in some water loss analysis as well because it takes

[3:35:39] pumpage and it also takes your your consumption which is your billable uh uh

[3:35:45] water. Um, so it just basically it does what I try to do through Excel, not into

[3:35:53] that super detailed level and it helps constantly create, hey, based on what

[3:35:59] we're seeing with your trends, your rate probably should be somewhere around here

[3:36:03] to maintain a system. And you can also help, you could build a reserve limit

[3:36:07] that you want in there to try to build up a reserve for your water sewer fund.

[3:36:11] It just takes all those factors and calculates all that into one software

[3:36:16] instead of having seven Excel sheets like I do kind of right now. Um the cost

[3:36:22] was not a huge hit. It's about 10 grand a year. Um it does use some AI

[3:36:26] components to also look at some other trends based on our pumpage. Um and I

[3:36:33] don't want to get nitty-gritty because unless you live in the water sewer

[3:36:36] billing life, it it you know it's kind of boring. So,

[3:36:42] » so are they would they be using data we already possess and then analyzing it to

[3:36:46] provide pro provide >> do they do you have a list of what it is

[3:36:50] they're willing to they would be providing for the cost?

[3:36:53] » Yes. So it is um sorry should have that page brought up. So

[3:37:01] basically what it does oh it also can factor in your asset replacement. So you

[3:37:05] can build in different metrics into like how you want to replace your assets and

[3:37:08] your infrastructure and it can >> based on how the usage of the

[3:37:12] » we could build those metrics out if we wanted to. Yes.

[3:37:15] » When you get there, are you talking to page number?

[3:37:17] » Um so please >> sorry it's kind of long.

[3:37:22] » The subscription page is 56 >> for the pricing.

[3:37:29] » Yes. So basically the features are rate design, long-term financial model, asset

[3:37:34] features, which is kind of that um you can put in your infrastructure and kind

[3:37:39] of um build out your metrics on that and then scenario exploration. So I can

[3:37:43] build in hey what if we raised our rates to this level? How would that impact

[3:37:48] overall based on our already sold pumpage? What

[3:37:55] what form would the product be that you you receive as a result of the of the

[3:38:00] subscription? >> It's an actual software. So, it's a live

[3:38:04] you it's it's like a web- based software. So, it continuously moves and

[3:38:09] works and it's pretty interactive. >> So, you have access to it.

[3:38:12] » Yes. >> What are the sensor?

[3:38:13] » Do you have access right now? >> Subscription?

[3:38:15] » No. >> You subscribe to it?

[3:38:18] » Waterworks. You know, I'll look them up. I'm I'm asking because if we already

[3:38:21] possess the data, >> I I I not trying to to dissuade you from

[3:38:28] looking at these folks. This can be done in a few days with the current tools at

[3:38:32] that we possess. >> The problem is

[3:38:34] » Excel spreadsheets but actual program. >> So the problem is is that if I leave

[3:38:39] tomorrow, who's going to maintain that, right? Whereas when you go with a

[3:38:42] software, sometimes you know that it's going to be maintained and someone can

[3:38:46] come in after me and know what they're doing. um or they can get that training.

[3:38:50] Um the problem with using a lot of self-service software is it's it's I

[3:38:55] know it's a concern of Chris's and he's kind of communicated with us is that

[3:38:59] who's going to maintain that, right? >> Yeah. That's that's always an issue. We

[3:39:02] really try to avoid what I call the skunk works developing anything in

[3:39:06] house. It's stop. It's sometimes in the short term it's a great solution, but

[3:39:11] it's typically not sustainable. And as soon as that knowledge base leaves, it

[3:39:15] usually falls to the wayside and then people who are using it say, "How do we

[3:39:19] do this or do that?" And so then then you're back to square one.

[3:39:24] » Yeah. Chris, tell me tell me the tell me the top five things that this software

[3:39:28] would provide to you and then what would you do with that?

[3:39:30] » Well, I'm not familiar with the software. This is this is a cloud-based

[3:39:34] solution. >> Top five things.

[3:39:36] So it would help me with budgeting exactly for revenue.

[3:39:39] » Are are there specific things it would give you that would help you? I'm not

[3:39:43] I'm not >> No, no. So basically what we do right

[3:39:46] now is we do a 5-year rate study. Right. So we have to wait five years to see

[3:39:51] okay where are we at? And that study is done by bio engineering but it's based

[3:39:56] on historical data by the time we get that data to them. Whereas this kind of

[3:40:00] keeps evolving it. It takes all our metrics continuously and recalculates

[3:40:05] all these things for me. So the top five things that would help me do is maintain

[3:40:10] our cash flow module I mean model because we can kind of establish where

[3:40:15] we want our cash flow metrics to be and it can help me calculate that out. It

[3:40:19] can also help us and Joseph to put all of our O andM we can build out a

[3:40:25] forecast our on and we already have a forecast with our CIP and it can

[3:40:29] conceptualize hey where do we need to be to fund that you know and we can add

[3:40:33] inflationary rates onto that so that every year it kind of re or we can

[3:40:37] re-upload it as we need um where I'm at two three [laughter]

[3:40:42] » so so this is so use anal this is predictive analytics to to give you a

[3:40:46] forewarning of potential >> yes

[3:40:48] » assets set failure and shortfalls in revenue.

[3:40:51] » Yes. And also it'll help us with some wear loss I think as well. Water loss

[3:40:56] cons because it takes your pumpage and it takes your billable.

[3:41:00] » So the current the current contract that we just we just approved that's that's

[3:41:04] going into into effect that has digital or that has data that's already coming

[3:41:09] to us to let us know like if someone thinks they're only using 150 gallons a

[3:41:13] day but then they're they're actually pumping 300 somewhere. We already have

[3:41:16] that. Right. >> Right. with the Badger, the Water Sense.

[3:41:20] » Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. So, the theory was is that because

[3:41:25] I'm a oneman team, um, you know, I have a my accounting

[3:41:29] » yourself short. You're a dozen man. >> Yeah. My my accounting Kristen's great,

[3:41:33] but she does more of my day-to-day. The analytics is up to me, right? So, and as

[3:41:38] everyone knows, I get pulled everywhere. So, this was going to be a tool to kind

[3:41:41] of help me alleviate making some errors in Excel sheets because they're

[3:41:46] inevitable. we know this um that's the other thing is it's a error thing for

[3:41:51] you know with excels and um it helps with a continu continuity if I was to

[3:41:57] leave or someone else was to take over they can see where we were at on

[3:42:01] something that was kind of the idea there too

[3:42:04] » okay see where we're at on something >> like where we are with our rates with

[3:42:09] our infrastructure everything it's all built into one component instead of

[3:42:13] several Excel sheets >> all right and if I go to Waterworth

[3:42:17] software. I can probably see examples of of and these are tailored to our city,

[3:42:22] right? Would it be? >> So, it is kind of a um Yes. So, it's a

[3:42:26] no. >> Is it completely out of the box or do we

[3:42:28] have our >> It's out of the box, but then we can

[3:42:30] customize some things and add some add-ons if we wanted to later.

[3:42:33] » Okay. >> But this was just to get to a base

[3:42:36] scenario and look at it. Um yeah, so because I would like to get

[3:42:41] Tammy trained on this, like it would not just be me. Is she going to upload the

[3:42:44] data? And I'm hoping there's an API with be with badger beacon that can transport

[3:42:49] it in. >> I'm not opposed to this. You said one

[3:42:52] thing that got my got my interest to just it makes your job easier.

[3:42:56] » Yeah. >> And you do a lot of work and I

[3:42:57] appreciate that. So, I'm just curious. >> And water is a weird um [clears throat]

[3:43:01] there's a lot of factors. >> It's all squishy and wet.

[3:43:04] » We have kind of an Excel we have an Excel um document that my team and

[3:43:09] Joseph's team fills out to try to capture water loss,

[3:43:12] » right? and try to capture some of these other items whereas this could probably

[3:43:16] just do it manually. >> So you have already identified in your

[3:43:19] spreadsheet you've already identified the things that you need versus the

[3:43:22] things that you want but to receive after but so if you input data

[3:43:26] » so you you've already identified what you can input and what you want after.

[3:43:29] » Yeah because it's basically just to keep up with a continuous rate study an idea

[3:43:34] of what we need to do to make >> May I see that?

[3:43:38] » Uh >> not right now. Not right now.

[3:43:39] » Well there's several different ones. There's ones that you guys work on and

[3:43:42] then put into it's a >> mail to me if you don't mind if it's Is

[3:43:47] that okay? >> I can I'll see what I can send you. Um

[3:43:50] some of it has accounts information. I have to clean up. Forget it. Forget it.

[3:43:54] I don't >> Sorry.

[3:43:55] » No, no, no, no. I don't want to get into that. Okay. Thank you very much.

[3:43:57] » Yeah, I can give you some printouts with some redactions maybe. But um

[3:44:01] » No, you've got enough on your plate. Thank you.

[3:44:03] » And and you know, and I'll be honest with you, because we are a small city

[3:44:06] and we're spread thin, it's probably not as sophisticated as it needs to be,

[3:44:09] right? and this could help accomplish that as well. Mine's probably a little

[3:44:13] bit more surface level than this because even when we were talking about um the

[3:44:17] long-term financial model um I think with TAMA coming on and with even more

[3:44:22] infrastructure that's my concern, right? We've been operating kind of like on the

[3:44:27] same infrastructure count for a long time and now we got some heavy new

[3:44:32] infrastructure and that's what I'm worried about.

[3:44:35] » There's a potential to add more >> to that here in the near future. show

[3:44:39] this. >> So, you could build out scenarios like

[3:44:42] that, like, hey, if we were to add on how many more people, how would that

[3:44:45] influence our rate structure or how you know what the average consumer bill

[3:44:49] because you could kind of see what your average consumer bill is and everything

[3:44:52] like that. >> I think you should do it.

[3:44:56] » Just going to cut it short and say, >> I support that. Anything that's going to

[3:44:59] help you make you do your job better and you don't have to hire an employee to do

[3:45:02] » it's unlimited licenses, so team can be on it, my team can be on it. It's

[3:45:07] unlimit licenses. So I think we should do it.

[3:45:10] » Do they do any other thing as far as other measurements that we are doing or

[3:45:15] monitoring? Can do can they expand or do we have anything else?

[3:45:19] » We there was I scaled back the proposal because some of the stuff was a little

[3:45:24] bit but we can always add it later. Um there was some things that what was it?

[3:45:28] It was kind of a little weird. >> Well, not as far as features of its

[3:45:32] ability. [clears throat] >> Is there as it stands right now? Do does

[3:45:36] this company make anything else that we currently have that we're

[3:45:40] » Oh, I I've never used them on >> that. I don't know.

[3:45:44] » Yeah, we can ask them. We can always explore it.

[3:45:47] » And it's a year-to-year contract. It's a two No, it's a year to year. So, if

[3:45:52] » and this comes out of the uh enterprise. >> Yeah, it'll come out of utility billings

[3:45:57] budget. I'll put it underneath the Department of 51.

[3:45:59] » I'm all for it. Okay. >> Yeah, definitely.

[3:46:03] [clears throat] >> It's It's 98.50 50 a year. So, but it's

[3:46:06] only it's a year year, so it's even cheaper.

[3:46:10] » All right. >> Okay. Now, on to the fun stuff. Capital

[3:46:13] projects. >> Capital projects.

[3:46:15] » So, MDD did approve two projects that were on the list. It was additional

[3:46:19] funding for some roadway projects um because there's some that might need

[3:46:23] additional funding. So, they just earmarked 500,000 for that. And the

[3:46:27] second was to approve the design to figure out the pool amenity and some

[3:46:32] other features at the pool because that pool is agent and we need to look at

[3:46:35] some of the things over there. So that was about 75,000.

[3:46:39] » Yeah, there's a lot of factors going on over there.

[3:46:42] » So they approved those two projects. Um the projects that we have for the

[3:46:47] general fund. Um, sorry.

[3:46:54] I'm not used to this mouse, so it's freaking me out. Okay. Uh, yeah.

[3:46:59] So, the projects we have to talk about for um general fund are going to be the

[3:47:04] Grogan Mills pathways design only for 1275.

[3:47:09] Um, city hall public works building security infrastructure refresh with

[3:47:13] technology. That project can be funded through three avenues. um the three

[3:47:18] funds and then for other general fund projects it's the caliber public safety

[3:47:22] cloud data conversion Motorola command central cloud migration and citybot

[3:47:26] communication platform citybot communication platform can also be

[3:47:30] shared among funds so um I don't know we'll just go in that order I guess

[3:47:35] grows pathway first [snorts] so

[3:47:39] » yeah so the for the grow pathway it was just a uh um initial idea to add

[3:47:47] pathways on Groven's Mill. I mean, we've we have several options in there whether

[3:47:51] to add the pathways um coordinate with the county on uh expanding the road to

[3:47:58] four lanes or just out of middle lane. So, we have options on on Groen's Mill.

[3:48:04] Um I'm not and this is my job. I don't like the

[3:48:08] project. I don't like the pathways. I think it's not u um necessary. Uh it's

[3:48:16] $127,000 for this uh where we already have pathways on on the other side. Uh

[3:48:22] but we can definitely use money to uh look into other options that we can do

[3:48:27] on Groen's Mill. >> Explain a pathway

[3:48:31] » like what? >> Right.

[3:48:35] » It's on the east side of Millville. >> It's a walking trail basically.

[3:48:39] » Oh. >> Yeah. The idea is

[3:48:43] » I'm sitting here thinking of a street that you create

[3:48:46] » on your side of the street. >> Go ahead. Sorry.

[3:48:48] » So >> any Shannon go aside?

[3:48:51] » Yeah. >> On the east side.

[3:48:53] » That's not the project I thought we were talking about.

[3:48:55] » And we've had conversations uh previously with Commissioner Riley on on

[3:49:00] options that we can do on Groen's Mill. I know recently Sam and I believe uh

[3:49:05] Mayor and Joseph had conversations with uh Commission

[3:49:10] uh Commissioner Willer about about Groven's Mill as well. So um

[3:49:15] I think we need to wait a little bit on on on this. I I think we can postpone

[3:49:21] this because we still have to figure out uh if we're able to take control of of

[3:49:28] Rogan's Mill and I think we should consider this only when and if we have

[3:49:33] we get that >> accomplished.

[3:49:35] » Correct. >> So we can we could table this.

[3:49:38] » Y >> I think that would be a wise move.

[3:49:42] And besides this is just this is just for the uh

[3:49:46] » design >> the design

[3:49:48] construction can cost upward of >> Yeah. I say up there 850.

[3:49:53] » I would hate to spend over $100,000 for something that is not ever going to be

[3:49:57] built. >> Yeah. I think we can tell

[3:50:03] » construction 12750 construction on top of this.

[3:50:08] » You're talking about almost a million dollar investment if you were to do it.

[3:50:11] tonight. >> Give it to the police.

[3:50:14] » Business, man. I need to be an engineer. >> Um, next is going to be city hall and

[3:50:19] public works building security infrastructure refresh.

[3:50:25] » Is that me? >> It's not anyone else. [laughter]

[3:50:30] » Not me. >> Thank you, mayor and council. Um,

[3:50:35] [clears throat] real quick, what we've been doing over the last couple of years

[3:50:38] is shifting all of our um, building security, all of our surveillance

[3:50:43] cameras to a cloud-based system. And that's worked out really well with our

[3:50:47] wastewater treatment plant, our lift stations. And with that, we have

[3:50:51] security monitoring. Obviously, since we don't have a um, police dispatch, we

[3:50:56] don't have people that man can watch cameras 24/7. So, they do that for us.

[3:51:01] and it's proved itself out especially at the wastewater treatment plant where

[3:51:04] we've had breakins and the motions get alerted. It contacts law enforcement.

[3:51:09] It's been very effective and the service the service has been excellent. Uh it's

[3:51:14] the same system we have again all the w the all the water uh the treatment plant

[3:51:19] lift stations and at our um park. Uh so this proposal is obviously um not

[3:51:26] stating the obvious but looks like we're going to be in this building for a

[3:51:29] while. So, a lot of our infrastructure is aging out and one of those things is

[3:51:32] our current building security and all of our surveillance cameras which are about

[3:51:37] 15 years old. Um, [snorts] so this proposal is to replace all of the

[3:51:43] building security systems, all the cameras on the access control in this

[3:51:47] building with the same provider, the same vendor, Verata. If you haven't

[3:51:51] heard that name, you can certainly look them up. Um, and they would basically

[3:51:55] turnkey replace all of the equipment in this building. Um the total cost for

[3:52:01] this building and all of the cameras at public works uh is 240,000. And my

[3:52:08] recommendation would would be to break this out into um a 5-year um operational

[3:52:17] cost. I think it's uh came out to 80 86,000 I believe per year. Around 80,000

[3:52:24] on do you have that break out there? If it's 240 divide by five.

[3:52:28] » Yeah, >> it 48.

[3:52:31] » I had I had a doctor. >> Or was it by three?

[3:52:33] » I lost it wherever it went. [clears throat]

[3:52:37] » Uh like I like I said, this system is pretty old. The issue we're having now

[3:52:41] is that components are failing. We can't get parts. We have to uh and we can't

[3:52:46] get updates on the system that we have now. It's just it's obsolete. It's out

[3:52:50] of date. So, we're being forced into really looking at replacing the

[3:52:55] infrastructure. Um, and not only that, this kind of dubtales into the overall

[3:53:01] strategy of a lot of these systems that are going to be moving out to the cloud,

[3:53:05] which we have done and going to continue to do. So, this would also follow in

[3:53:09] line with that strategy that we will not have to replace um like a video server

[3:53:15] in storage, which right now is tremendously expensive. if if anybody's

[3:53:19] read any articles about the data centers going in the tremendous cost of memory

[3:53:24] and storage. Um and so we would eliminate that cost. So everything would

[3:53:28] be a cloud cloud-based. So that eliminates buying um uh back-end

[3:53:34] infrastructure uh that in the future. Uh so uh I think this is a very important

[3:53:40] project. Uh and we're kind of doing some preparatory work when we do the HBAC

[3:53:45] tear out. We're rewiring this building, bringing it up to Cat 6 cabling and

[3:53:50] updating the infrastructure, getting rid of all the old CAT 3. So, we'll be

[3:53:54] taking care of some of the foundational work during the HBAC project. So, when

[3:53:59] they come in, we'll be ready to go. We'll be able to just change out

[3:54:01] hardware and um and within a few months can be up and running on the new system.

[3:54:07] Uh so, I'd like, you know, if I could get a consensus of what everybody feels

[3:54:11] like uh uh consideration for uh doing this project. Let's do it.

[3:54:17] » Have you broken out just how what the impact is on general fund, CVB and

[3:54:23] » so typically how when we do um building projects like this, we do it based on a

[3:54:26] square footage. So I can get those numbers. Um

[3:54:30] » those might change if CVB does leave. >> Yeah,

[3:54:33] » we might have to consider that. But um I can get those for you. I think it's

[3:54:38] typically like general funds like usually 70%. It's based on square

[3:54:41] footage. Well, I think we should do [snorts]

[3:54:44] » I think it's important that we have a physical security of this building

[3:54:50] to the >> I'm shocked that it's 15 years old.

[3:54:53] » So am I. >> I can't believe that. Gosh,

[3:54:56] » Chris, what's the uh cost the upfront cost versus the reoccurring maintenance?

[3:55:02] » Uh great question. Uh based on the proposal, there's no upfront um cost. We

[3:55:07] basically would do a contract uh with the provider. um for five years and that

[3:55:12] covers the total cost of the project. So it's 478 by my calculation which would

[3:55:19] be so 50,000 a year for five years would would cover the cost of the project. If

[3:55:23] we do it that route we can fund the whole thing or do it in two phases split

[3:55:28] it in half. >> So my question is what I'm getting at if

[3:55:31] it's a one-time cost versus a reoccurring

[3:55:35] cost. Well, you're just a moreitizing the project over

[3:55:40] » I was just trying to >> if you did it all up front 20 well 2395

[3:55:46] » is what um the total project is >> right so that would just be a onetime

[3:55:50] cost one time >> onetime cost but there's no other

[3:55:54] » there's no other reoccurring fees I apologize um the the only reoccurring

[3:56:00] fees are the uh annual service with verata

[3:56:04] » subscription >> the subscription cost and that would be

[3:56:06] regular operational. It's um it's a few thousand a year. I'd have to I'd have to

[3:56:11] you know, we're paying it now. Uh it's it's I think with each site it's less

[3:56:15] than a thousand. I think for this site it probably a couple of thousand a year,

[3:56:18] two to three, thousand a year on my estimation.

[3:56:20] » Okay. Um but I have to go back and and verify that. But

[3:56:24] » but basically it seems like because it's a high dollar amount, the Vicata is

[3:56:28] basically going to let youortitize the contract cost so that you can so you can

[3:56:32] still consider as a project over a fiveyear term. And then we can look at

[3:56:36] we can look each way. >> Sure. All right.

[3:56:39] » What is the scope of the work that's they're just saying that is it replacing

[3:56:44] cables? All the cables. >> Uh no that we well the cabling is going

[3:56:48] to be done during the HBAC tear out. We're going to we're going to rewire the

[3:56:51] building because we're tearing all the ceiling out. So we're going to do that

[3:56:54] regardless if we did this. This needs to be done. So uh I got with Joseph and

[3:56:58] there's some extra dollars to take care of that. So when they come in, they'll

[3:57:01] just be replacing endpoint equipment, all of the cameras, and then all of the

[3:57:05] uh like when you put your badge on the HID readers, they're replacing all that

[3:57:09] all that infrastructure will get replaced.

[3:57:12] » So you already know their specs for the cabling that they use or they use what?

[3:57:16] » It's all cat 6. All the data cabling. Yes.

[3:57:22] Is it unreasonable to to wonder if there are other vendors to just it it seems

[3:57:27] like a large amount to just go straight with I know we have a relationship with

[3:57:30] them and I appreciate that. Um do do you have any idea what other vendors might

[3:57:34] charge for the same >> Well the that's a good question. I guess

[3:57:37] the issue here is that we've already chosen that path with verata and so if

[3:57:42] we went with another vendor just for the sake of you know doing so we would be

[3:57:47] buying another separate the separate system from what we have the idea is to

[3:57:51] funnel all the security into one management system in the cloud so we've

[3:57:55] already kind of chosen that strategy with verata they're very competitive the

[3:57:59] cambers have a 10-year warranty on them um just based on what the projects we've

[3:58:03] done um I don't believe there could be some cost savings if we did something

[3:58:09] separate, but uh based on the cost of the equipment, I don't really think that

[3:58:13] there's going to be um a disparity between one vendor and another uh as far

[3:58:19] as the the in the end equipment goes. Uh the standard equip like we're using HID

[3:58:23] readers which is pretty much industry standard. Um and then we currently have

[3:58:27] access cameras, we be moving to Vicotta cameras.

[3:58:31] » Did Vicott did they bid their own project to you? So you could so you have

[3:58:35] a breakdown of what's going to happen, what it's going to cost, what it's going

[3:58:37] to cover. >> Yes. So the vendor the vendor that would

[3:58:40] do the work, the partner for varata is databox.

[3:58:43] » Okay. >> Uh so that's that's the ver the local

[3:58:46] partner for varata. And we use datab box for other for other uh have used them

[3:58:50] for other projects, >> but they're the sole source for for

[3:58:54] Verata. And so what I do is when IATA, they push

[3:58:59] their quotes through databox [snorts] and databox supplies the quote to us.

[3:59:04] You said we've already decided on the on the uh concept. Have we already paid for

[3:59:09] I'm asking this because I don't know um if if this is going into the cloud. I

[3:59:13] mean there there are tons of cloud servers and I'm I'm not I'm not trying

[3:59:16] to get into your business. Please understand but uh for a for this feels

[3:59:21] like a capital expenditure to me from the business side of things. I would

[3:59:24] love to see two other quotes. >> Well understood. Uh now the verata

[3:59:28] system obviously it's their own it's their own cloud. It's not like we can

[3:59:32] take their data and push it somewhere else. It's a service.

[3:59:34] » There are plenty of cloud providers and plenty of companies that have their own

[3:59:37] cloud and they should they should be also is ISO ISO 2 T7001.

[3:59:41] They just should be their minimum of their security ranges for this. This is

[3:59:44] typical in a industry standard. I just >> Sure.

[3:59:46] » I just it's a big purchase and we're we're we're we're pinching pennies

[3:59:50] because we have a little bit of a >> and we're talking about talking about

[3:59:54] altering our reserve policies because we have a little bit of a challenge with

[3:59:58] our budget. I'm even if even if somebody else was 10% different, that's 24 grand

[4:00:05] that could I don't know go somewhere. I'm not saying I'm not saying

[4:00:08] [clears throat] we shouldn't use these guys. I would just love to see I don't

[4:00:11] know some uh some other competent industry. Uh

[4:00:16] I understand your point definitely, but it just just reiterating it's a sole

[4:00:20] source product. If you're you're using Vicata, you're using their service.

[4:00:25] You're using you can't use AWS. You're you're buying their cameras. That camera

[4:00:30] footage goes to their security service, their cloud service. It's a whole

[4:00:35] platform. So, we would go into the same portal that all the other cameras that

[4:00:39] we have now. >> Well, if we continue using their portal

[4:00:41] at three grand a year, if the if the greater project is $240,000, I'm not

[4:00:46] particularly personally worried about 3,000 bucks. I'm saying there are other

[4:00:50] security options. I think in a city like Houston there must be can

[4:00:55] » well sure there there are other products >> when can I ask a question when we chose

[4:00:59] Ricotta because we're currently using uh what what aspects of their service right

[4:01:05] now >> at all of our other all the other

[4:01:08] facilities that we have >> so we're currently using it when we what

[4:01:11] was the process to choose Ricotta did we go through process

[4:01:14] » through Vicata we did we looked at several different systems um at the time

[4:01:19] and you know that was kind of a strategy that we adopted and as we bring in the

[4:01:24] water bring the water plants online we're we're adding that the the idea

[4:01:29] » so this is an add-on >> that was about a year

[4:01:31] » my point that I'm getting at is that we did go through a process

[4:01:35] » yes >> of choosing this this

[4:01:37] » and this is an add-on to that >> and that this is an add

[4:01:39] » sure and so we have >> you were aware that we they went through

[4:01:43] » so are we contractually obligated to them for

[4:01:45] » oh no no we but but the so the point is it it's not it's not advantageous to the

[4:01:52] city to buy a separate system. If we were going to do that, then

[4:01:55] » you know, we would stick we would stay with we we're on Genitech, so we have

[4:01:59] our own server locally here. We have our own video storage locally here. And we

[4:02:04] we pay for licensing for Genitech software, which is a security and video

[4:02:08] service. That's what runs the cameras and runs all the access control. We're

[4:02:13] we need to replace all that. And so since we the infrastructure is outdated,

[4:02:18] we want to get away. It's it's it's time to go ahead and move city hall to the

[4:02:23] same system that we're using everywhere else. If council chooses not to do that,

[4:02:27] then we buy a whole another system and do something separate. But that

[4:02:31] » it sounds like we're buying a whole another system already.

[4:02:34] » We are, but we're we're basically adding we're adding cameras to the existing

[4:02:40] service that we already have. So, we're adding cameras at a4 million dollars to

[4:02:43] the existing service of three grand a year to servers that already exist to a

[4:02:47] company that we're comfortable with and already using.

[4:02:49] » Well, not comfortable. We've already committed to it.

[4:02:52] » If we're if we're contractually committed, then this is a different

[4:02:55] sounds to me like we're you're really what you're doing is upgrading.

[4:03:00] That's >> Yes. But I want to be clear, we're not

[4:03:02] contractually committed, right? >> We we we chose a vendor, a specific

[4:03:07] vendor, a specific service, just like if you have Ring cameras at your house. I

[4:03:10] get it. Yeah. >> And so we chose Verata as a cloud

[4:03:15] security service because they had 10ear warranties on their cameras. They

[4:03:20] provided 24-hour monitoring for our critical infrastructure, which we would

[4:03:24] have to have paid for separately if we went with a some type of provider that

[4:03:29] would provide monitoring services. So we we've bought that service and we put it

[4:03:34] at all of our other sites. And so we want to take this building and add to

[4:03:40] that service as opposed to buying a whole different system. So then if we

[4:03:45] did that, we can do that, but then we would have vericotta running at all

[4:03:48] these sites and we would have whatever we buy here

[4:03:51] » separately. But we're going to upgrade all those sites, not just here. We

[4:03:55] already have verata everywhere. We're we're taking this building and we're

[4:04:00] » up to adding it to the Vcata. We're going to put Vcata cameras in this

[4:04:04] building. >> Now I understand. So the other sites

[4:04:06] already have the latest and greatest cameras?

[4:04:08] » Yes, sir. >> And we're not upgrading any of those?

[4:04:10] » No, sir. >> Different conversation. Thank you very

[4:04:11] much. >> Correct.

[4:04:12] » Right. Right. And that that was the history I was going to bring up is we

[4:04:16] Chris and I looked at this a year and a half ago, two years ago when we made the

[4:04:20] switch for Cata and the the impetus was at one of our water plants,

[4:04:26] somebody broke in and stole a fuse from the generator

[4:04:29] » twice. Twice, which doesn't sound like a big deal, but that fuse cost 45,000.

[4:04:35] We we could have paid for and and I and I I did pitch this prior to that and

[4:04:40] there was some opinions, you know, and understandably that some people just

[4:04:43] didn't think cameras were effective, you know, and and and that's [clears throat]

[4:04:48] fine. At the very least, it's an investigative tool. Even if you see the

[4:04:51] person running away, it's [snorts] at least it gives you a lead. It's it's

[4:04:55] better than nothing. >> I believe cameras are effective. I

[4:04:57] believe they're important. I believe >> [clears throat]

[4:04:59] » $240,000 is a lot of money. Even if we had two separate services and it saved

[4:05:02] us 50 grand, I would be interested. I I mostly would just like to hear and this

[4:05:07] is the reason a lot of companies get very complacent and very comfortable

[4:05:11] working with municipalities and and they're very comfortable and happy to

[4:05:15] just do whatever with their prices. I'm not saying this these guys are. I'm not.

[4:05:19] Please understand. >> No, I understand.

[4:05:20] » Um but just to keep them honest, >> not that they're being dishonest. Uh,

[4:05:26] hell, I would just love to see another quote and and let them know, hey, hey,

[4:05:31] you guys, another company quoted against you. They were only 10 grand under.

[4:05:35] We're not saying you need to change your prices, but we're letting you know for

[4:05:37] your own edification that in the future, you know, you guys are not as

[4:05:41] competitive as you may have thought you were. That's it. Understanding. Other

[4:05:44] than that, I support everything about this. I just would like for them to know

[4:05:48] if they're overshooting us a little bit and taking advantage of a good

[4:05:52] relationship. I'm not saying they are >> the only thing I could do which I kind

[4:05:57] this because we have this relationship with other vendors kind of like HP

[4:06:00] » sure >> you know I if I buy HP servers and I've

[4:06:03] ran into this problem I have different vendors so I approached [snorts] the

[4:06:06] vendor and I try to say I'll go to datab box and I said give me a quote for three

[4:06:10] new servers then I go over to SHI and I ask give me a quote for three new

[4:06:13] servers >> well what happens is

[4:06:16] » they actually talk to HP >> okay

[4:06:18] » and HP generates the spec and they already know that I get a quote from

[4:06:23] datavox and it's really a weird deal because then what happens is it turns

[4:06:27] into this conflict and they all come back with the exact same price

[4:06:29] » describing sounds a little unethical not on your part

[4:06:33] » well it it's just it's the way some of these vendors work and I totally

[4:06:36] understand because >> I get it and because of the way these

[4:06:38] vendors work I just would like to see a quote

[4:06:40] » the only thing I could do is go to another vendor that deals in Vicata and

[4:06:43] ask them to requote it >> but I would get the exact same quote

[4:06:47] » it's okay to it's okay to even consider a completely different system the fact

[4:06:51] is you could have homes right next to each other with completely different

[4:06:53] security systems and still get alerts from either one. I'm not saying that's

[4:06:57] what we want to do. I'm going to let this go, but but but I

[4:07:02] would just love to see another quote because it feels like a lot and maybe

[4:07:05] it's not. >> Well, uh so this building between this

[4:07:09] building and and city hall, we have 50 50 cameras. Okay.

[4:07:12] » Which is a lot. And then um building control um it's 20 20 something.

[4:07:17] » So they're eight grand a piece or something like that or three grand a

[4:07:20] piece. depend there's between 6 and 8,000 a piece the cameras but they have

[4:07:24] a 10-year warranty which is unprecedented so if anything happens to

[4:07:27] them they replace them >> where okay where are they made who's the

[4:07:30] where are they manufactured besides >> makes their own cameras China where are

[4:07:33] they located I could have to dig into some details for you on that

[4:07:36] » okay I'm good I just I I'm going to I'll support this I just

[4:07:42] I love seeing various quotes it makes me a little nervous and scared when we have

[4:07:46] such a good relationship with a vendor that we don't even bother getting quotes

[4:07:48] » no I and I totally understand your point If it makes you feel any better, people

[4:07:51] that know me know it. I beat up I I hate to use that word beat up, but I I I'm

[4:07:55] pretty aggressive with our vendors. >> Five bucks, I'll kneecap on them. I'm

[4:07:58] just >> No, I am because knows right now they're

[4:08:02] they're choking everybody out with cost of of hardware. Um just putting in

[4:08:06] perspective, we pushed we I don't want to belabor the this topic, but so our

[4:08:13] storage, our regular data storage was up for replacement this year.

[4:08:17] Um and a a system that should have cost

[4:08:21] around 80,000 >> okay

[4:08:24] » was 200 and just quarter of a million dollars

[4:08:27] » from whom? >> From HP.

[4:08:29] » Okay. Yeah, I believe that. >> And just because of the cost of of of

[4:08:33] technology, a computer we a desktop PC we were paying $800 for a couple years

[4:08:40] ago, >> okay,

[4:08:41] » is $2,300 today. That's the reality of where we're at. And that's with anything

[4:08:46] it related. >> So even even if a quote supported and

[4:08:50] showed how amazing the prices were, wouldn't wouldn't you feel better? Hey

[4:08:52] man, I'm save 50 grand going with these guys.

[4:08:54] » Absolutely. >> So So would it cost anything to get

[4:08:56] another quote? >> Well, there again, we're talking about

[4:09:00] have to put an RFP for a completely different system.

[4:09:04] It's not advant I don't see it as advantageous to us to look at a

[4:09:08] different system. The idea is to bring everything together in one cloud, one

[4:09:13] platform. If if council chooses to do that, then we can go a whole another

[4:09:18] route. But ultimately for my preference is

[4:09:23] add to the system that we're >> I am 100% sure council's got your back.

[4:09:26] Me personally, I just love to see quotes. But

[4:09:28] » understood. >> We are where we are.

[4:09:29] » Okay.

[4:09:33] » So consensus. >> I think [laughter] we should I think we

[4:09:36] should take the staff's recommendation, put this in the budget.

[4:09:40] » We've been through a process. We we have a policy on how to appropriate funds. We

[4:09:45] also have a policy on how to spend them. >> We went through that process, did we

[4:09:50] not? >> Yes.

[4:09:51] » Okay. And I think that uh I I see no reason in asking a staff member to go

[4:09:56] through another drill or exercise that's not going to really prove anything.

[4:10:03] So, put it in the budget. That's my recommendation. So, do we want to look

[4:10:07] at a five-year schedule or do you want to just do a

[4:10:13] straight up 240? >> That's not I mean that's totally up the

[4:10:15] council. So, they gave me a three a threeyear and a fiveyear or we purchase

[4:10:19] it however they want to do it. They they've just given us

[4:10:21] » proposed breaking out over >> amateurization options. So, it's a less

[4:10:25] impact to our cash, >> you know, uh for our budget. We we can

[4:10:29] break it up. >> We have consensus on going with this.

[4:10:31] Now we have to decide on >> what the amount of money to pull.

[4:10:35] » You're basically just scheduling the project over five years.

[4:10:38] » Yes. >> So you go.

[4:10:40] » So it's 61,000 a year. Is that >> Well, currently it's for a 5year. I

[4:10:45] think it's it's just under 50 a year. 40 >> 4400. Yeah.

[4:10:49] » But because it's a project cost, we can do it out of cash.

[4:10:52] » Well, I would say if they're offering it, keep your cash and get some interest

[4:10:56] out of it. >> Yes.

[4:10:59] » So we can look at that. >> Yeah. That's why I was really pushing to

[4:11:02] » break it out benefit from the earnings that we

[4:11:06] » Yes. we keep back >> and then also it can help us because if

[4:11:08] CBB does move out we haven't committed them to the full account and we can

[4:11:13] everything's falling apart. >> Yeah.

[4:11:14] » And then we can like you know Okay. So we'll do fiveyear. Okay. Yes.

[4:11:19] » But I want you to know I I appreciate everything you're saying and and I like

[4:11:22] the points that you bring and I want you to know that that I'm in this I'm with

[4:11:26] you on that. >> No hard feelings man. I I come from a

[4:11:28] from a business world and and I would be scared to death to give it to my boss

[4:11:32] with a a cost like that without other quotes.

[4:11:36] » Understood. >> Just just as plain as that.

[4:11:40] » Okay. Do you want to take a break at all or not?

[4:11:42] » Move on. >> But but I'm sure they're good. You guys

[4:11:44] are very confident what you do. I'm sure they're good. I was just curious.

[4:11:48] » Okay. So, of course, I lost my mouse again in here. Okay. Next project. No,

[4:11:54] it's it it's because there's like three screens on the back side.

[4:11:58] » Okay. So, the next one would be the caliber public safety cloud data

[4:12:01] conversion. >> Um, sorry, Chris, you're up again.

[4:12:04] » Yeah, >> you want me to lead on quicker?

[4:12:07] » I I can I can I can lead off with it, but I'm going to have you help me with

[4:12:12] some of this stuff. >> Technology is a little fun. Yeah,

[4:12:14] technology is not my strong suit, but I I can definitely

[4:12:20] talk about uh the process and everything as far as uh the decision to try to go

[4:12:25] to another uh RMS system. The RMS system is a report management system. So, this

[4:12:31] is where we take our reports and and put them inside the system. Um so

[4:12:39] um currently we use Tyler Technologies.

[4:12:44] Tyler Technologies is a it was designed for a large agency that

[4:12:52] has a [snorts] dispatch center along um with their patrol. And so they

[4:13:00] have to enter in a dis a dispatch call uh and then select that and put it into

[4:13:07] uh where patrol can access it. We don't have a dispatch center. So these guys

[4:13:13] are having to create a dispatch call like they're dispatcher and then enter

[4:13:18] it into uh another area where the they can select it. That's redundancy. And

[4:13:26] there's tons of redundancy in in this system that we're currently doing, which

[4:13:30] wastes time. And time when it comes to law enforcement is crucial. The more

[4:13:35] time that we have, the more time we can be out there on

[4:13:39] patrol. So this system has wasted so much time. These guys have complained

[4:13:45] and complained and complained about the system. I said I have to me I have uh no

[4:13:52] skin in the game when it comes to to these systems. We built a committee and

[4:13:56] the committee consists of admin. It uh Lieutenant Poland, it

[4:14:02] consisted of patrolman and it consisted of the the C uh investigations and they

[4:14:09] went through several systems. They looked at several of them and this is

[4:14:14] the one they came out with. It is a substantially cheaper company. Uh but it

[4:14:20] has everything that they need. I told them that the only thing that I expected

[4:14:23] is I can generate some [clears throat] reports that I can show to council and

[4:14:28] that's said that's that's all that that I care about. That's the only skin in

[4:14:31] the game I have in it. But if it can can uh reduce the amount of time that they

[4:14:38] uh spend on doing reports and cut out the redundancy, I'm all for it.

[4:14:44] So, I'll let Chris kind of give some more examples about it and he can speak

[4:14:48] more to the technical side of it. >> Well, from a dollar standpoint, we're

[4:14:52] already paying for software. Really, the only thing that this is an increase of

[4:14:55] is the initial migration cost. So, the requesting funded amount is a onetime

[4:15:00] cost for migrating all the existing data from Tyler to Caliber training and go

[4:15:07] live support. Uh the annual subscription cost or estimated 20,000 a year. uh

[4:15:13] [clears throat] the recurring annual cost already budgeted for the title RMS

[4:15:17] system which is around 25,000. So caliber is a net savings. So really all

[4:15:22] we're doing is the upfront cost for migration. Uh which was uh what did I

[4:15:28] say? 20,000 >> 40

[4:15:31] » no 40,000 I'm sorry 40,400 for the migration cost. And then we're and then

[4:15:36] our annual cost is less than what we're paying for Tyler now. And we've been on

[4:15:41] that system for 5 years. We bought that system that also included all of our

[4:15:45] ticket riders and handhelds. That was a 5-year contract. That contract was up uh

[4:15:51] last year, I think. >> So, we're free to move away from from

[4:15:55] that system. We're not bound any longer to uh to Tyler.

[4:16:01] » Will Caliber be able to handle all the ancillary services like the ticket?

[4:16:07] » We will still maintain uh Tyler owns Brazil

[4:16:12] which is most agencies use Brazers. We will still maintain bra the brazas

[4:16:18] park for the ticketing system. So the brazes handheld they upload their

[4:16:23] tickets to the county. >> Correct.

[4:16:26] » And that's how they're handled. So we will still maintain those.

[4:16:30] » Uh but it has nothing >> uh no sir. Uh we will have to pay uh a

[4:16:36] small amount to Tyler for the cloud service for uh the Brazes technologies.

[4:16:43] Uh but other than that we will not be using their software at all.

[4:16:50] » Comments. >> I think it's good. Good. Yeah. It's like

[4:16:55] I agree. >> I'm all for it.

[4:16:58] » Yes. >> I think anything that will facilitate

[4:17:02] the process and save you time. >> Well, their productivity as well. You

[4:17:06] can't put it down. >> Yeah. You know,

[4:17:09] » I've been in the field with those guys and I see them cussing about it. I mean,

[4:17:12] they hate >> they they absolutely hate this system.

[4:17:14] » Don't ask Mark, you know. >> Yeah. You know,

[4:17:17] » no, they hated this system that we're currently on. It was

[4:17:22] » a good saying I like is you never truly know somebody well enough till you live

[4:17:25] with them for a little while. >> And if anybody has experience with

[4:17:28] software, sometimes that's the case. Sometimes you don't know that. You don't

[4:17:31] know the questions to ask until you see it. Oh, I didn't I didn't realize that

[4:17:35] was a problem because even when you demo something, that's why I don't like

[4:17:38] demoing software. It's just never it's never a true representation what you're

[4:17:41] getting. You have to really really dig into it. But it is web based too. So

[4:17:46] there again, one less server we have. So we're moving everything out to the

[4:17:50] cloud. So less less overhead for us here.

[4:17:54] » Any additional questions or comments

[4:17:59] consensus? >> Yes. Okay.

[4:18:05] » City bond. >> Uh well, we got one more PD.

[4:18:09] Well, city bike >> the Motorola command.

[4:18:12] » Oh, okay. Here we go. >> Sorry, Chris. Go ahead.

[4:18:14] » No, it's all right. So, all of our incar video, this is all

[4:18:19] of the car, the body cams and the end car videos. Motorola, which used to be

[4:18:23] Watch Guard is watch Motorola bought WatchGuard several years ago. Uh, so

[4:18:28] that's the systems we have in our cars now. It's good technology. Um, one of

[4:18:33] one of the better ones and then probably the two main ones out there, Motorola

[4:18:36] and Axon. Um, one of the one of the benefits of Motorola was they allowed

[4:18:40] you to keep your own onremise um, software server and then uh, we have a

[4:18:46] large storage array disc 60 terabytes. Seems like a lot but it's it's not I

[4:18:52] guess compared to some other agencies where we store all that video. Um, what

[4:18:57] Roll is basically telling us now they're going to end support for the onremise

[4:19:01] portion of the software uh, in a year or so. So basically what

[4:19:06] they're doing is they're like these other vendors, they're forcing you to

[4:19:09] make a decision. So they're going to basically force you into their cloud. So

[4:19:13] either today or tomorrow, uh you're going to have to subscribe to their

[4:19:20] proprietary service for because that's where all your video goes. Um in in

[4:19:26] essence, we're going to be uh as we're going to be turn it into a $50,000 a

[4:19:32] year operational cost. That's what it will cost us annually now and forever

[4:19:38] and obviously that's going to increase yearbyear but uh that's going to be the

[4:19:43] cost of uh using these cloud services for uploading the video. So we will

[4:19:48] convert our existing hardware to then upload to Motorola's cloud. Uh and

[4:19:54] [snorts] that will get rid of replacement costs for local storage

[4:19:58] which by using the analogy I left I gave you a little earlier if I had to replace

[4:20:02] that storage today it'd be about six5 to $600,000 to replace the current storage

[4:20:08] in today's prices which is absurd. And I'm sure nobody here would want to pony

[4:20:12] up to replace that. So uh this is a good move for us to go ahead and do this. So

[4:20:19] we get rid of our local infrastructure cost. The server and the storage goes

[4:20:23] away. All the video goes into the cloud and then police can access the video

[4:20:28] their evidence software in the cloud. Uh when we move to this system

[4:20:35] uh see the data migration upfront costs for the first year are included in the

[4:20:39] requested funding amount. Continued an annual subscription will be 43,675

[4:20:46] and this is on a five-year contract. Total contract is 235,724

[4:20:51] and I can guarantee you with a 100% that that will increase after 5 years based

[4:20:57] on you know even if it's the standard 6 to 7%. We can anticipate that and then

[4:21:03] of course it's going to it's going to vary based on how big our agency gets to

[4:21:07] the amount of data that we need. It'll it'll just grow. So this is definitely

[4:21:11] one of those uh cost of doing business unfortunately.

[4:21:17] So I'm definitely interested to hear some feedback on on that.

[4:21:20] » So chief um the data on these this video um is it sometimes evidence?

[4:21:30] » It submitted as evidence. >> Yes, it is. And so anytime we have open

[4:21:35] records, which is constant, you have three officers on scene. Well,

[4:21:41] you think, well, that's just three cameras. It's not.

[4:21:44] » It's six cameras. So, you have to pull six cameras of information, store that

[4:21:48] information. >> Yeah. So the the amount of storage that

[4:21:53] you have to have to to maintain all this stuff it's I I don't see

[4:22:00] future wise all these data centers and everything I I just don't see that

[4:22:04] that's a sustainable thing >> because the amount of information all

[4:22:08] these cameras information that we have >> concerns are all about chain of custody

[4:22:12] you know for control of evidence or anything. No sir, the these are all

[4:22:17] with with the cloud and everything. This this is all what they're going to.

[4:22:22] » Okay. >> We have no control over that. Axon's

[4:22:25] going to eventually and going to Axon >> they're their cameras are

[4:22:31] » it's incredible cost. >> The cost is just astronomical going to

[4:22:34] Axon. So, we're trying to go with the cheaper option with Motorola because we

[4:22:39] we had Watch Guard, which Watchguard, of course, he said they were bought out by

[4:22:44] Motorola, but Axon >> do well.

[4:22:47] » Yeah, they they have, you know, Motorola's Motorola, you know, they make

[4:22:52] a good product. However, you know, when you kind try to do customer service, it

[4:22:56] it's a pain. But it is what it is. >> To Summer's point, and this is one thing

[4:23:01] I don't like. I don't like this at all because you're you're you're held

[4:23:05] hostage >> by the vendor

[4:23:08] » and you know you take take a city of Houston I don't know what they're using

[4:23:12] but can you imagine the pabytes which large amounts of data that they have to

[4:23:18] store you can't move to another vendor you you simply can't you basically have

[4:23:23] to say I need to move all this data to oh we want to move to you know from

[4:23:29] watchguard or motorola to Axon well if you're a city of Houston size. I I can't

[4:23:34] even fathom that. I just don't even think it's it's practical. And a lot of

[4:23:38] this video, some of the video, depending on what it is, can be kept for as long

[4:23:42] as 75 years. 75 years. >> Wow.

[4:23:46] » And you have to maintain that video and you have to migrate it and move it. So

[4:23:50] this this is new since incar video and all that. A lot of people don't know

[4:23:54] about this and think about this all the backend that's involved in that. So

[4:23:58] [clears throat] even if we kept the video here, every let's just say every

[4:24:02] six years, every seven years when we have to replace the storage, we have to

[4:24:06] migrate that data to the new system and then keep migrating that data for years

[4:24:11] and years and years for however long that retention is. And so yeah, I just I

[4:24:18] just I know it's a lot, but I just want to put it in perspective so everybody

[4:24:21] understands what what's actually happening on the back in the background.

[4:24:25] So once you move to the cloud, you're basically signing. I mean, you're you're

[4:24:29] signed up. >> Yeah. And it's unfortunate, but Axon and

[4:24:33] Motorola, they're monopolizing the market. They're purchasing everything

[4:24:37] law enforcement. [clears throat] Those two companies are in competition and

[4:24:40] they're purchasing everything law enforcement related.

[4:24:44] » Who's uh who's doing the migration of our current data?

[4:24:48] » Uh or you talking about the video? >> Yeah.

[4:24:50] » Well, uh Motorola will do I mean we we're on Motorola system that's we have

[4:24:55] Motorola now >> we do have an on-remise server and on

[4:24:58] premise storage they will migrate the existing video to the cloud service

[4:25:04] » and then our on-remise storage and server will go away

[4:25:08] » okay and that's what that's kind of the question I was going to ask go away is

[4:25:12] sort of ambiguous who's going to destroy those that data that data storage medium

[4:25:16] so it can't be exploited >> we'll we'll uh we'll wipe it we'll do a

[4:25:21] a multi- uh multi- tier white destroy that that array that that disc will be

[4:25:27] will be probably cleaned up and I'll do that myself. It's our array but

[4:25:33] » then what happens with it >> uh destroy the disc out of it. Usually I

[4:25:38] pull them out and physically drill through them.

[4:25:40] » Perfect. Okay, that's that's where it's headed. Thank you.

[4:25:48] » Sounds like we don't have a choice. I never like to use that term,

[4:25:53] » but you you you can stay with them for a little while longer and then ultimately

[4:25:57] you're going to end up buying something else that's going to do the same thing.

[4:25:59] That's why we avoided Axon. >> Axon was really expensive. Um I think we

[4:26:05] got a bid for at our time it was less vehicles too and I think it was

[4:26:09] 7 800,000. >> It was ridiculous.

[4:26:12] » And then they're on a fiveyear contract. So, basically what they do is that they

[4:26:15] say, "Okay, we're going to outfit all your cars with new systems, and we're

[4:26:20] going to give you body cams, and you're going to sign a 5-year contract, and

[4:26:24] we'll give you new body cams after two and a half years because they just wear

[4:26:27] out. They just, you know, wear and tear. And then after 5 years, we're going to

[4:26:32] replace all your video systems." But basically, what you're doing is it when

[4:26:35] you're getting new cars, you're getting new systems. So, you're on a perpetual

[4:26:39] contract. I mean, and they don't offer an on-remise solution. you sign up,

[4:26:44] you're you're on their service and you're you're pretty much bound to them

[4:26:48] at that point. >> So, and for your information, Taser is

[4:26:54] that's Axon. >> Axon Yeah.

[4:26:58] » owns Taser. >> So, they I mean those two companies are

[4:27:02] competing for everything.

[4:27:07] » All right.

[4:27:11] Consensus on that. Yeah.

[4:27:17] » Yeah. >> Well, Jim, that that sounds like

[4:27:19] » that sounds so grim when you say it that way.

[4:27:21] » Yeah, >> it is. [clears throat]

[4:27:23] » It is to be honest with you. >> All right.

[4:27:27] » Yeah. Uh, city bot. >> All right. One more. [laughter]

[4:27:33] Um, real quick, I know some of us have a lovehate relationship with our um, uh,

[4:27:39] autoattendant in our phone system. Charlie, you could.

[4:27:42] » Yeah, very much so. >> See, going to get rid of that and start

[4:27:46] hiring some people to answer the phones. Is that

[4:27:48] » Well, hey, that's not my department, Jim. Uh, but uh [laughter]

[4:27:52] » answering, Jim. You know,

[4:27:55] » I So, I understand is that, you know, some people have the opinion that they

[4:27:58] want a live person to answer the phone all the time.

[4:28:01] » It's a department of first impressions. >> AB: Absolutely. U the reality of it is

[4:28:07] besides Jackie, there really only two people that can answer the phone um when

[4:28:12] general calls come in. And so and and unfortunately those people wear multiple

[4:28:17] hats. So they're not always at their desk. So if you call and you have a

[4:28:20] utility billing question, who who's in charge of utility billing? Well, main is

[4:28:25] Tammy and then Lisa, the phone will roll to Lisa, but Tammy wears multiple hats,

[4:28:30] so she's not always at her desk to answer the phone. So, they're going to

[4:28:33] get a voicemail and some people don't like that.

[4:28:36] » I don't I'm not trying to tell you what the solution is to that. It's just

[4:28:41] really it's a people problem. Uh public works questions will get directed to

[4:28:45] Leslie. And so, if neither of them at their at their desk to answer the

[4:28:49] phones, they're going to roll a voicemail. And then some people just

[4:28:52] don't like leaving a voicemail. They can choose to go back to the auto attendant,

[4:28:56] which rings back the front desk, but you're back to square one again. if Jen

[4:29:00] is well not Jen anymore, but if uh Jen was on the phone, then you're going to

[4:29:05] get the voicemail there or uh she'll answer and then try to answer your

[4:29:10] question. So, I said all this to say we did look the mayor and I and uh Sam, we

[4:29:16] and Joseph, I think you were in that meeting. We looked at a um people know

[4:29:21] how I feel about AI. Uh but we did look at a uh an AI assistant, a chatbot. And

[4:29:28] what this would do would provide a conversational piece for our customers.

[4:29:33] So when you call in, instead of getting an autoended, it would answer and the

[4:29:38] the AI bot will have access to all the information on the city's website. It's

[4:29:44] not open to the internet. So if you have a question that uh you would like the AI

[4:29:50] bot to answer, it will uh parse all the information, all the data on our website

[4:29:55] and can provide answers to the customers.

[4:29:57] um in in addition to direct the phone call to the appropriate department. But

[4:30:02] what we're trying to avoid is a dead end for the phone call. We want the we want

[4:30:07] the bot to be more interactive with our customers. This is a good way to, you

[4:30:13] know, if council wanted to hire another person and put another position for

[4:30:17] somebody just to answer the phone, that's certainly an option. Uh this is

[4:30:20] an inexpensive option and it gives our customers access to um frequently asked

[4:30:25] questions. Um, it's it's it's more open-ended. Plus, it provides a a chat

[4:30:31] bot on our website that people can also use and provide them information uh for

[4:30:37] uh for any any questions they might have. Uh

[4:30:41] I I mayor gave a little feedback because he sat in on that demo and and what he

[4:30:45] thought of it. Um the the city bot.

[4:30:51] » Yeah, I think that's better than the alternative.

[4:30:55] I certainly >> can you make it sound like John Wayne?

[4:30:59] » I could I was going to say >> I was going to say make it sound like

[4:31:02] John Escato >> and you can do that. They actually had

[4:31:05] some cities where the voice was the mayor's voice.

[4:31:07] » I think it' be fantastic and we have plenty of audio from all the council

[4:31:10] meetings so you could you could use to >> Yeah. I can't remember what city that

[4:31:14] was, but it was the mayor's voice. >> It was it was

[4:31:18] » but it's a very conversational tone. I my my personal opinion is I I was

[4:31:23] impressed, you know, cuz I' i've dealt with some chat bots with different

[4:31:26] companies and some are pretty horrible. This one is a very conversational

[4:31:30] » actually quite good. They're loose. They're fluent. They're actually quite

[4:31:32] good. They were >> I mean, you could tell you were talking

[4:31:34] to a bot. There's some cadence issues, a little longer pause maybe than normal,

[4:31:38] but it was, you know, overall, >> I mean, if you weren't paying attention,

[4:31:42] you probably think you were talking to a person.

[4:31:45] » One of the things they did is that they were they played they played us back a

[4:31:48] recording of a radio station. and I don't remember where it was and the

[4:31:51] radio station basically set out to trip the bot up. So, they took turns calling

[4:31:55] in and and just carried on this long Q&A and it took them quite a while but it

[4:32:01] was very impressive. I was I was actually impressed about how it

[4:32:04] responded and it wasn't it wasn't so robotic. it was it was pretty robust and

[4:32:09] it was able to answer and then they tried to get it to admit that it was an

[4:32:12] AI um and which it ultimately did but it took them it took him a lot of questions

[4:32:17] he said to finally get that deep and and that they didn't have to badger it to

[4:32:23] send them to a live person. Um, but just keep in mind it doesn't solve the people

[4:32:28] problem because at the end of the day, if they want to get to the person, that

[4:32:32] problem doesn't go away, >> right?

[4:32:34] » This just helps alleviate the frustrations and get people to the

[4:32:38] information a lot easier that they that they want to get get at.

[4:32:42] » Yeah. >> Yeah. And even if they get to the point

[4:32:44] where they can leave an answer, leave a message with [clears throat] the person

[4:32:49] they want to get to instead of going back to the menu and listening to the

[4:32:52] whole menu. >> Absolutely right. It can eliminate the

[4:32:55] dreaded phone tree. >> Huh?

[4:32:56] » Yeah, >> it can eliminate the phone tree is

[4:32:59] basically what it can do. >> Well, I I work with call centers and

[4:33:02] call past >> 30 years. So,

[4:33:06] » uh the request the funding amount is 15,000. So, the implementation and

[4:33:09] one-year support fees are included. Uh and the continued annual support is

[4:33:14] estimated to be 10,500 a year. Uh the way they do the charging, it's based on

[4:33:19] minutes of usage. So, we had to estimate. We do not know. they come up

[4:33:23] with an estimate on what they think a city of our size might use and that's

[4:33:28] the number that that they came up with. Um and there there's a rate I don't have

[4:33:33] it on here but in the in the um uh proposal they have a rate based on

[4:33:38] minutes 0 whatever cents. Uh so however many however many minutes they came up

[4:33:44] with that's that's what we come up with as far as annual annual fee. I like it

[4:33:48] because I hate >> it.

[4:33:50] [laughter]

[4:33:53] I'm getting used to AI and >> it's a lot better than the uh menu

[4:34:01] bouncing back and forth. You know, it's very

[4:34:04] » All right. Consensus.

[4:34:07] » Yes. >> Yeah. I don't like it, but

[4:34:10] » Yeah. Yeah,

[4:34:14] » I like to have a personal up there answering at all times people and

[4:34:19] answering the damn phone. >> You know, there's people talking to

[4:34:23] people because and we're a small enough city we ought to be person to person. I

[4:34:28] just >> Well, that's

[4:34:30] I expected more of the of the gym response. Not because I expected that

[4:34:33] from Jim, but I just kind of expected >> No, we're going to have we're going to

[4:34:36] have two classes of people who are calling in. those who literally

[4:34:39] genuinely want information and those who want someone to console them and

[4:34:44] understand that they're hurting and and emotionally damaged from some city

[4:34:47] policy. The AI is not going to emotionally connect and those people are

[4:34:52] not going to be happy with it. However, if you genuinely want information,

[4:34:54] you'll get it. The other ones will be routed to a voicemail and they can leave

[4:34:58] their uh passionate impassioned [snorts] plea

[4:35:02] for whatever in the voicemail to someone who is there. literally right

[4:35:07] to a desk and if that person happened to be there then they would get the

[4:35:10] voicemail but >> we're not cutting out that that

[4:35:13] » I think a majority of the calls are probably utility villain related and

[4:35:18] » we have a strict policy we call back within an hour that's our rule that's me

[4:35:22] and Tammy's rule >> also

[4:35:23] » um and I'm her overflow so if she's at lunch I usually try to stay at my desk

[4:35:27] so I can get those overflow calls >> and last but not least uh this it's not

[4:35:34] on here but uh there was a request made and I apologize to the mayor. He did ask

[4:35:38] me this quite some time ago about replacing these monitors that on

[4:35:42] [snorts] the dice that block everybody's view. So, I've created this high-tech

[4:35:47] example of uh uh the monitor size that we would replace those with.

[4:35:52] » And it's considerably smaller. In fact, the top of this sits just about this

[4:35:57] high above the the curved uh finished edge of the das there. Uh these are it's

[4:36:04] not a lot. I hate to use a capital project, but

[4:36:06] » [snorts] >> uh it's 35 less than $3,600 to replace

[4:36:10] all 10 of these with a 15inch monitor that would look just like this, about

[4:36:14] this size. And so >> made of cardboard, too.

[4:36:18] » Made of cardboard. >> So, and this is not on the list of

[4:36:22] projects cuz it was just emailed to us yesterday. So,

[4:36:26] » yes, I I just got them to get back. >> We can approve I can add it to the

[4:36:29] project. >> So, how quickly can you order those?

[4:36:31] » If I order them, they're saying two to three weeks. They're just cut out. So,

[4:36:35] it's really >> So, you can get it done before the new

[4:36:36] fiscal year. >> Well, I can have these made before I

[4:36:38] leave for vacation like a week. I [laughter] can just put them up there.

[4:36:43] » Like, how come this screen won't change? >> Yeah. I keep swiping.

[4:36:47] » Yeah. So, uh yeah. 35. >> This is a council members.

[4:36:50] » Are we going to be able to zoom in on them or

[4:36:52] » the public not touch? >> No. Oh, this unfortunately these are

[4:36:56] only >> Yeah. The public wanted to see

[4:36:58] » they're only seeing what we display on the computer. So, they're not

[4:37:01] interactive. Well, I keep using mine. I get it. I know.

[4:37:05] » No, no, but we can do that. We'll add that to our strategic plan when we

[4:37:08] upgrade the video system in here to uh you know,

[4:37:14] » high-tech two-way. >> You push the button, the video camera

[4:37:18] turns on you while you push the button. >> Yeah, just just get them now.

[4:37:28] » But I I really did I really did this because I wanted to show off my

[4:37:30] cardboard cutout. >> You did a great job. Very nice. Very

[4:37:32] nice. Good job. >> A little uneven, but

[4:37:35] » All right, let's let's move on. You got what you need?

[4:37:37] » Thank you. >> Okay.

[4:37:39] » Okay. >> Water plant number two, pump covers.

[4:37:41] » Yes, these are all water sewer related projects. So, these come primarily out

[4:37:45] well wholly other sewer funds. >> All right, let's have some fun. Uh the

[4:37:52] these are the uh shade structures on the water plant number two. This will be

[4:37:57] covering um protecting the booster pump equipment that we have there which

[4:38:01] includes valves and all the piping. Um ultimately you will love to have uh

[4:38:06] building protecting this equipment like we have on water plan 4 and the new

[4:38:11] Tamina water plant but I mean as you can see there I mean affects the coating

[4:38:14] affects the uh actual performance of the pump. So these shade structure will at

[4:38:19] least some be some protect protecting um those all that equipment in there. Um,

[4:38:26] so I do recommend this project. Uh, it's going to give us give our palms uh

[4:38:31] better life and uh longer life.

[4:38:36] » I agree. Good. >> That well number two has served us well

[4:38:43] over >> the last 50 years. It's

[4:38:46] » been a powerhouse. Y

[4:38:52] » it's only got a 16inch line, but it worked.

[4:38:56] All right.

[4:38:59] The redundant sewer line at I45. This is a project that was we tried to

[4:39:06] do it with ARPA money. Uh we did were able to fund the design. So the whole

[4:39:11] design project is already completed by BL engineering. Um this is also a

[4:39:17] project I there uh very well recommend. Uh we only have one line going from the

[4:39:24] um from this side of the freeway to the other side. Only one one gravity line.

[4:39:29] That's a lot of risk. Uh if that line collapses,

[4:39:33] man, that would be the worst day of my life. Uh so it would require a lot of

[4:39:37] bypass and I can't even imagine how much that would be if we had to do that. So

[4:39:42] we cannot let that happen. If it happens, we can at least have this

[4:39:46] redundant line. So we need this redundant line. We have two gravity

[4:39:50] lines going from one side of the free to the other and make it to our wastewater

[4:39:54] treatment plant. Um like I said design is already funded. It be a matter of uh

[4:40:00] getting the construction done. We are thinking it's going to be bling and

[4:40:05] during anticipate $425,000 for the project um construction. You

[4:40:12] know, we were going to use ARPA funds to do.

[4:40:14] » We were going to be using ARA funds, but we put that money into the uh Tamina

[4:40:18] Road uh utilities. Uh the the the funding is for construction estimates

[4:40:23] for 425, but with all contingencies, we're funding requesting uh half a

[4:40:28] million. So, 500 total >> and we did have some of the because of

[4:40:32] the timing of this project, that was a factor of why we didn't use our funds.

[4:40:36] The other thing is we did use some of those funds to allocate towards the

[4:40:39] wastewater treatment improvement as well.

[4:40:43] » I'm for it 100%. We need to get it done. >> We need to have it.

[4:40:48] » Very important. >> It's been on the books for four years.

[4:40:52] » Yes. >> And again, this is coming out of

[4:40:56] » water. >> Water sewer.

[4:41:04] » Okay. Yeah.

[4:41:06] » All right. >> Well, we got the uh the effluent line,

[4:41:13] not the redundant line under the freeway. They want to replace off the

[4:41:16] whole effluent line, right?

[4:41:22] » Yes. We got to do the >> the master plan.

[4:41:24] » The master plan, right? >> Master update for the wastewater

[4:41:28] treatment plant. >> Yeah, I'll go ahead and get started with

[4:41:31] that one. Um so this is the master plan. Um so we right now um on our wastewater

[4:41:37] treatment plant we're processing about 8 just short of 800,000

[4:41:42] um ga gallons a day on a wastewater treatment plan we permitted for 1.3

[4:41:47] million um per TCQ rules for the state whenever you reach a 75% when you

[4:41:53] trigger 75% for the previous three months you need to be in design already

[4:41:58] but we're very getting very close to that triggering that so I do recommend

[4:42:03] funding the uh uh the master plan study with BL uh it's only right now we're

[4:42:08] asking for $50,000 uh that will put us ahead of the game

[4:42:12] before we also need before we actually need to start designing this project.

[4:42:17] This is for the ultimate phase on our wastewater treatment plan. Uh we need to

[4:42:22] move because we have Tamina coming and that's just stamina. If for some reason

[4:42:27] we have development there uh that will increase our flows. So I do recommend

[4:42:32] funding the U master plan with volunteering right now.

[4:42:37] I can answer any questions on that. one of those.

[4:42:40] » Yeah, I'm going to rework the revenues, but

[4:42:45] » I mean they all work they go at different times. So cash flow,

[4:42:48] » right? >> I'll be able to

[4:42:52] » and I'll just add that with Tamina coming online, Woodloft and then the

[4:42:56] apartments at Sam Moon, right? We're going to be at that 75%.

[4:43:01] » Yeah, >> it's right around the corner.

[4:43:03] » Eventually you're going to get schools right time.

[4:43:06] » Yeah. If for some reason something develops develops with Methodist uh even

[4:43:11] more so

[4:43:21] that's the design >> design only for the eff line on the

[4:43:24] wastewater treatment plant. Um recently we made some repairs to the ad line just

[4:43:30] right next to the water right next to the plant but this is a full replacement

[4:43:35] of this fl that goes all the way from the wastewater treatment plant goes

[4:43:39] north into Carter Sloo um the line is is not a not a gravity line it looks

[4:43:47] like a force man it's fully pressurized it should not be doing that so it's

[4:43:52] almost a full capacity um right It's an 18inch line that we have there.

[4:43:58] Uh we're increasing it to a 24 inch line.

[4:44:02] » It's going to be side by side for >> I'm sorry.

[4:44:04] » You're going to put them side by side and keep them both or just going to

[4:44:08] increase it and >> Right. We will we putting side to side

[4:44:11] and then abandon the other one. >> We We'll look at alternate routes to see

[4:44:16] if maybe we can even shorten that run. >> Yes.

[4:44:19] » To save on costs. >> Exactly. We we'll do a study with BL

[4:44:22] engineering that >> that's what we're looking at

[4:44:24] » that it might even be like putting um a wet well just specifically for this uh

[4:44:31] that will reduce the um the um the linear feed of line that we we

[4:44:38] install. >> So serious

[4:44:42] » you it's going to be gravity >> the plan is to do gravity. Yes.

[4:44:46] » Just a question. Yeah. >> Okay.

[4:44:50] » Yes.

[4:44:57] » I testing and repair. >> This is also another project that's been

[4:45:01] on our books for many years. Um but I mean year to year we having more and

[4:45:06] more problems with INI. Um INI means inflow and infiltration. Uh basically

[4:45:12] it's all the infiltration that you have on your sewage system on manholes on on

[4:45:17] lines that are cracked that is making it all the way to the our wastewater

[4:45:21] treatment plant. And just so you know when we have a big rain event like like

[4:45:27] I mentioned before we have about 800,000 gallons a day on our wastewater

[4:45:31] treatment plant. When we have a big rain event we're treating over a million. Um

[4:45:36] so that just more more time for our operators more chemicals that we need to

[4:45:41] invest more electricity uh damage to our system our pumps and everything. So

[4:45:48] having this pro problem is not only going to be detecting where the problem

[4:45:51] is but also we we have some uh money in there to make the major repairs that are

[4:45:57] needed and specifically is only going to be attacking our old section of the city

[4:46:04] which is on the uh southeast uh section of the city. doing this for the whole

[4:46:10] city will cost a lot of money, but I do know from uh talking to Steve and our

[4:46:15] other operators, that's our big problem area. So, the southeast. So, uh

[4:46:22] basically south uh so southeast and right next to um uh Memorial Herman. So,

[4:46:28] um any questions I can answer on this? >> We're all Yes. about four years ago at

[4:46:34] the TML conference, I talked with the people on this.

[4:46:38] » Yes. that had sensors that listened to the water going through the lines

[4:46:44] » and effluent >> sewer lines and water lines. Okay. Is

[4:46:49] that what we're talking about? >> That is exactly what we're talking

[4:46:52] about. >> Blindly good. It's just

[4:46:54] » Yeah. >> Yes, sir. So, yeah.

[4:46:58] » It fell on deaf ears when I brought it up four years ago. Okay. It's all about

[4:47:02] money. I understand. >> Yeah. Some of these mantels we're

[4:47:05] looking at are brick manholes. That's how old they are. Oh yeah. So,

[4:47:11] well that was great because you could tell and you could actually find where

[4:47:15] the effluent where the it is coming from.

[4:47:18] » Exactly. >> And then when you have a 16inch water

[4:47:22] line on Vision Park blow up. >> You don't have to wait for SCADA to to

[4:47:28] tell you, hey, the water tank's empty. You know what I mean? The hydro tank.

[4:47:32] » Yeah, that's definitely happened what, twice?

[4:47:38] Oh, many times. Yeah. >> So, yeah, I'm all for it. I I saw this

[4:47:45] in action. It's just phenomenal. >> Mhm.

[4:47:49] » This is one of those projects that will potentially be

[4:47:52] » Oh, save us so much money. It's >> there's a payback period.

[4:47:55] » For sure. >> Sorry, forgot my mic was up.

[4:47:58] » Yes, I'm 44. >> And I we did get a quote from a

[4:48:02] contractor, but I would like to get additional quotes to see where the

[4:48:06] market is. I different companies do this. Uh I like competition. So I like

[4:48:10] to have uh different contenders bidding on this.

[4:48:14] » Do you want to set ceiling? >> We Yeah.

[4:48:19] RP. >> Yeah. It exceeds the 100,000 by law.

[4:48:25] » Okay. So that's pretty much it with project. We did table item number two.

[4:48:29] We do need to take a record vote. It's it's an action item. So,

[4:48:35] you know, the action item basically truth and taxation laws requires us to

[4:48:39] have a formal vote saying if we want to go with the no new no new revenue rate

[4:48:45] or do we want to open up the possibility to go above it. If we vote to open up

[4:48:50] the possibility to go above the NNR, we then have to have a public hearing

[4:48:54] before the adoption of the tax rate. If we don't, you don't have to have a

[4:48:58] public hearing. you can just approve the tax rate because you're not

[4:49:02] » council to decide how far up they want to go and

[4:49:06] » that we can always go down without

[4:49:09] » we can always do yeah the NNR so if you want to make a motion or someone wants

[4:49:14] to make a motion to approve a just I just need a proposal right as well for

[4:49:19] the tax office to have >> but here let me bring my thing back up

[4:49:26] » what's the one below it here Um

[4:49:31] 1918 >> 1918 would be the max you can go without

[4:49:35] a um uh with >> okay 1911.

[4:49:40] » That's my motion. >> What was your motion

[4:49:44] » to adopt it to the 19? >> Well, not adopt to propose

[4:49:47] » to propose. We're not adopting anything tonight.

[4:49:50] » Well, that's fine. [laughter] Words >> to below the 19.4, right?

[4:49:57] to below the 194. Yes. >> Okay. So, we have we have a motion to

[4:50:03] » to propose to consider to propose >> the 1911 rate.

[4:50:07] » The 19 >> 11 rate.

[4:50:10] » I'll second that. >> Yeah.

[4:50:14] » By proted

[4:50:19] by Councilman Sol.

[4:50:25] Yes, sir. Okay. Can we put those two together? [laughter]

[4:50:28] » Took me forever. >> It's going to be that way.

[4:50:32] » It's going to be that way. I don't >> No, it's going to be that way.

[4:50:35] [laughter] >> I want to change my name to Hank

[4:50:37] Williams. >> So, just discussion.

[4:50:43] » So, we're going to try to come below this, but we want to have the option to

[4:50:46] go here if we have to. >> Correct.

[4:50:48] » Yes. >> But we will decide later.

[4:50:51] » Exactly what I'm saying. Just there's our option again.

[4:50:54] » It's a good plan. Yes. So, [clears throat] just for anyone that's

[4:50:57] listening at home, this is not the adoption of the rate. This is not saying

[4:51:00] that this is what we're going to adopt. This is just the tax office requires me

[4:51:05] to propose a rate and this is what that is. So, all the notices unfortunately

[4:51:10] will have that 1911 factor, but it doesn't necessarily mean that's what

[4:51:14] you're going with. It's just truth and taxation. Unfortunately, those are the

[4:51:18] rules and we have to follow them. the official vote for the uh the the change

[4:51:25] in the tax rate would be >> so we required to do that.

[4:51:30] » So I have to get tax rate approved by the 15th of September to get onto the

[4:51:35] tax roles with Tammy Ray or I have to collect taxes and that's going to be no.

[4:51:39] So we have to have it approved by that point. If you guys are comfortable from

[4:51:43] me making the changes to this budget and having the adoption for the next the

[4:51:47] council meeting on the 26th, I can do that.

[4:51:50] » You can put it on the 26 and he can pull it.

[4:51:53] » Well, we just have to know for public notice here. You have so many public

[4:51:57] hear in public notices. Courtney and me every year it's the bane of our

[4:52:00] existence. Um because of all the rules. So if it doesn't pass, but if we put it

[4:52:06] on for the agenda on the 26th, but then we end up not making an action item, I'd

[4:52:10] have to approve it within 7 days of that meeting. So we'd have to call a special

[4:52:13] meeting in by September 2nd, I believe. >> So those are the rules.

[4:52:18] » Okay. >> So if we could stick to it and I can

[4:52:21] propose everything at the 26th and we feel comfortable, I will do that.

[4:52:24] » If John and Sam want to do that, that's their choice. You understand?

[4:52:27] » And I will I will send out everything updated. I am out of town next week, but

[4:52:32] I will work tomorrow on trying to get everything updated and sent out to

[4:52:34] everyone. >> And you'll also have on the agenda

[4:52:38] the issue with our reserve. >> Yeah, that'll be on there as well. Yeah.

[4:52:43] » If if we adopt a change in policy recommend,

[4:52:46] » you'll factor that in. >> Yes. So, what

[4:52:49] » in the discussion >> into the discussion? Yeah.

[4:52:51] » Yes. Yes. >> To approve or or not

[4:52:53] » or to >> Well, what I can do on the proposed for

[4:52:55] the budget >> and possible action

[4:52:58] » for the proposed budget. What we can do is I can have it in the agenda form and

[4:53:03] then I can actually put it on the actual document and if we would just make a

[4:53:07] motion if we wanted to go that way or not at that point and I remove it for

[4:53:10] the final publish adopted budget.

[4:53:16] » Okay. All right. Any additional comments?

[4:53:20] All in favor say I. I. >> I.

[4:53:23] » Opposed. Motion carries.

[4:53:27] All right. [clears throat] Having reached the end of the agenda, no other

[4:53:32] items to discuss, it is now 9:54 [clears throat]

[4:53:37] and we are going to adjourn this session, the special session of the

[4:53:44] budget workshop for Shannidor city council.

[4:53:49] What time? >> 9:54.

[4:53:58] Okay.

Shenandoah City Council Budget Workshop 8/5/2026

Transcript