[0:00] to personal matters. Please make a

[0:02] motion for recess. For those

[0:04] participating by phone, please keep your

[0:06] device muted unless you are speaking.

[0:09] When speaking, kindly state your name

[0:11] for the benefit of those viewing the

[0:13] live stream. As a reminder, this meeting

[0:16] is being broadcast live. The camera is

[0:18] located above the clock at the back of

[0:20] the council chambers. Our proceedings

[0:22] follow Robert's rules of order as set

[0:25] forth in Wasillo Municipal Code

[0:27] 2.04.090.

[0:28] 090 to promote an orderly and respectful

[0:32] meeting. I respectfully ask the council

[0:34] to observe the following rules. Please

[0:36] seek recognization before speaking. No

[0:40] member may speak more than twice on the

[0:42] same motion without a vote to suspend

[0:43] the rules. No member may speak a second

[0:46] time until all who wish to speak have

[0:48] had an opportunity to do so. These

[0:51] guidelines help ensure fairness,

[0:53] efficiency, and mutual respect during

[0:55] our discussions.

[0:57] Madame Clerk, please call the role.

[1:00] >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. Council

[1:01] » Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. Council

[1:01] member Codle

[1:02] >> here. Council member Graham

[1:04] » here. Council member Graham

[1:04] >> here.

[1:04] » here.

[1:04] >> Council member Smith

[1:06] » Council member Smith

[1:06] >> here.

[1:06] » here.

[1:06] >> Council member Crafton

[1:07] » Council member Crafton

[1:07] >> here.

[1:08] » here.

[1:08] >> Council member Johnson

[1:10] » Council member Johnson

[1:10] >> here.

[1:11] » here.

[1:11] >> He is participating telephonically. And

[1:14] » He is participating telephonically. And

[1:14] Council Member Rubio, Deputy Mayor

[1:16] >> here.

[1:17] » here.

[1:17] >> Thank you. You do have a quorum. All

[1:18] » Thank you. You do have a quorum. All

[1:18] members are with us in chambers except

[1:20] Johnson who is participating

[1:22] telephonically.

[1:23] >> Thank you. Please rise for the pledge of

[1:25] » Thank you. Please rise for the pledge of

[1:25] allegiance. Council member Codle, would

[1:26] you please lead us?

[1:28] >> My pleasure.

[1:30] » My pleasure.

[1:30] >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the

[1:33] » I pledge algiance to the flag of the

[1:33] United States of America and to the

[1:36] republic for which it stands, one nation

[1:39] under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[1:42] justice for all.

[1:48] » The next item of business is approval of

[1:50] the agenda. Before changes are

[1:52] discussed, are there conflicts of

[1:54] interest to declare?

[1:57] Hearing none, I would like to move AM

[1:59] number 25-61,

[2:01] item 8.41,

[2:03] from the consent agenda and place it

[2:05] under new business, item 10.2.

[2:08] It has come to my attention that one of

[2:10] the applicants resides outside the city

[2:12] limits.

[2:14] Are there additional changes to the

[2:16] agenda?

[2:19] Hearing none, the agenda is approved as

[2:21] amended by anonymous consent. Is there

[2:24] an objection?

[2:27] The agenda is approved as amended. There

[2:30] are no special orders of the day. We are

[2:32] now at commissions and agency reports.

[2:36] There does not appear to be anyone from

[2:38] planning department in attendance this

[2:40] evening. Please refer to item 11.2 for

[2:44] commission minutes. Their next schedule

[2:46] meeting is December 9th.

[2:49] At this time, we will hear from Madnus

[2:51] Citna Burough regarding the transition

[2:53] to areawide animal care services. Please

[2:57] come forward and begin your presentation

[2:59] by stating your first and last name.

[3:07] You guys can pull more chairs if you

[3:08] want around that.

[3:17] Madame Deputy Mayor, council members, my

[3:20] name is George Hayes. I'm the deputy

[3:21] burough manager. I've got with me uh the

[3:24] director of animal care, Vanessa Forbes,

[3:28] and the uh chief animal uh control and

[3:31] regulation officer, uh Matt Hardwick.

[3:34] What I'd like to do is just do a brief

[3:36] introduction and then turn some comments

[3:38] over to Vanessa. And then once she is

[3:41] done, we've got uh Matt here to give us

[3:44] some real life examples of why it's kind

[3:47] of not working now and how we think

[3:49] it'll work better. So number one, this

[3:51] started with an offsite uh special

[3:55] meeting by the assembly in August. We

[3:58] had heard already that the some of the

[4:01] cities, if not all, might be interested

[4:03] in an area wide animal care. And so the

[4:06] assembly asked the burough manager to

[4:10] explore that further and see what we uh

[4:12] needed to do for area wide animal care.

[4:15] We checked officially with each one of

[4:18] the cities and the city mayors, managers

[4:21] all were at least in favor of exploring

[4:25] that. So we um we have made up a

[4:28] presentation. We also looked at what the

[4:31] uh kind of the pluses and negatives were

[4:33] for that and we um then kind of brought

[4:39] it to each one of the uh the cities and

[4:42] you're the third one at this point. Um

[4:46] each of them have asked us kind of to

[4:47] come back um and in your case we're

[4:52] we're introducing it today and then

[4:53] we'll come back I understand in December

[4:56] 15th for the public hearing. So, with

[4:59] that, I will turn it over to Vanessa and

[5:02] let her talk. Thank you.

[5:06] >> Good evening, um, Madame Deputy Mayor

[5:09] » Good evening, um, Madame Deputy Mayor

[5:09] and, uh, council members. My name is

[5:11] Vanessa Forbes. I'm the animal care

[5:12] director for animal care and regulation

[5:15] for the burrow. Um, this was brought to

[5:19] me very shortly after I started in

[5:22] February. Um, and as um I've been in

[5:27] this role and working with Matt, um,

[5:30] we've noticed some areas where it it

[5:33] could be a lot more seamless and and

[5:36] better for our residents to be able to

[5:38] um have area powers instead of

[5:41] non-erawide.

[5:42] Um, the biggest area that we're looking

[5:45] at is obviously enforcement. So you have

[5:49] in front of you kind of a table or a

[5:51] chart that outlines the different

[5:53] services that we provide um how those

[5:56] are provided right now to the city and

[5:59] then how they would be provided if we

[6:01] were to go area wide. So that that first

[6:05] row there in blue, enforcement services,

[6:07] is will where you would see the most

[6:11] change and fluidity if we were to go to

[6:14] areawide. Um including our our

[6:17] enforcement of our title 24. Um and then

[6:21] our section does investigations um

[6:24] citations, administrative orders, and

[6:26] all of that that will be taken over by

[6:30] um the bureau. So, I'm going to pass it

[6:32] over to Matt. He's been with us for for

[6:36] since the dawn of time. Um, he's been

[6:38] with us for a very long time, so he's

[6:41] been able to have some some direct

[6:43] experience with how it's been working

[6:46] >> and we'll all be available for questions

[6:48] » and we'll all be available for questions

[6:48] after.

[6:51] » Evening, ma'am, deputy mayor, council

[6:53] members. My name is Matt Hardwig. I'm

[6:55] the chief animal care and regulation

[6:57] officer for the bureau. I've been

[6:58] working for animal care regulation for

[7:00] the bureau for 22 years. So I have seen

[7:03] the challenges and the changes not only

[7:05] in Wasilla city for that time frame um

[7:08] but with the burrow. [clears throat] Our

[7:10] relationship with the city has been has

[7:12] been good over the years but I've seen a

[7:14] lot of conflict and not with the city or

[7:17] with the the enforcement but with the

[7:19] citizens and between the cities and the

[7:22] bureaus. The problem that conflict I'm

[7:24] talking about is when something crosses

[7:28] boundaries and I can't enforce our laws

[7:31] in your city and your city can't enforce

[7:33] it in our burrow. To give you an example

[7:35] of uh a dog from the Wasil city crosses

[7:41] into burough boundary, bites a child and

[7:43] then goes back. We cannot enforce those

[7:46] ordinances for across our boundaries.

[7:49] Um, another example of a problem we've

[7:51] come across, um, [clears throat] this

[7:53] was probably the most com complex one

[7:55] was Palmer City had a warrant for a

[7:58] house in Wasilla City and I went and

[8:00] took the animals out of the house. Whose

[8:03] jurisdiction does that fall underneath

[8:04] for enforcement of those animals?

[8:07] It solved itself, so I didn't have to

[8:09] worry about it, but it was still what do

[8:11] we do? Um, so this going area or having

[8:14] a one ordinance for all burough and city

[8:17] res residents has been a wish of mine.

[8:19] Um, it's very difficult for me when I

[8:21] get a call from a city resident and tell

[8:25] them I can't help them. Um, whether it's

[8:27] the city can help them or not, it's

[8:29] something that's a struggle for us. Uh,

[8:31] so this is to have a one ordinance, a

[8:34] one-stop shop, a a one place for all

[8:38] Burough residents to go because we're

[8:40] all living here together basically, even

[8:42] cities and burough residents. Um, now I

[8:45] am open to any questions, any any

[8:47] concerns about how this would work.

[8:53] » Deputy mayor,

[8:56] >> thank you.

[8:56] » thank you.

[8:56] >> Uh, actually this question is for

[8:59] » Uh, actually this question is for

[8:59] Vanessa. Thank you number one. Thank for

[9:01] being here. I talked about uh you know

[9:04] once again the first magic line on your

[9:07] handout here and it talks about uh

[9:12] city

[9:14] and burrow cooperating. So if a city

[9:18] resident calls and says, "Hey, I have a

[9:20] trouble with my neighbors got three dogs

[9:23] barking all night."

[9:25] uh

[9:27] can the city respond to that with our uh

[9:30] code folks and say, "Hey, there's a

[9:32] problem here. I'm going to turn it over

[9:34] to the bureau," or are we kind of out of

[9:36] the loop alto together on that?

[9:38] >> So, if it's within city jurisdiction,

[9:42] » So, if it's within city jurisdiction,

[9:42] then it falls to you. um we can shelter

[9:44] those animals if we get a call from you

[9:46] saying we need a place for these animals

[9:49] and um you can bring them to the shelter

[9:51] but that would lie with um with the

[9:53] city.

[9:54] >> So the normal enforcement procedures

[9:56] » So the normal enforcement procedures

[9:56] other than

[9:58] >> sheltering

[9:58] » sheltering

[9:58] >> sheltering would continue to remain with

[10:00] » sheltering would continue to remain with

[10:00] the city

[10:02] >> as it is right now.

[10:03] » as it is right now.

[10:03] >> Correct. Correct. Thank you.

[10:11] If I can expand on that, when you said

[10:14] would continue to, you mean if we don't

[10:17] go area

[10:19] cuz right right now,

[10:20] >> if you do go area wide, George,

[10:23] » if you do go area wide, George,

[10:23] >> I mean, currently the city has these

[10:26] » I mean, currently the city has these

[10:26] animal regulation

[10:28] issues. Uh but my

[10:32] my question had to do with specific

[10:34] enforcement of Wasilla City Code that

[10:36] deals with, you know, you can't have six

[10:38] cattle on your condominium property.

[10:40] >> I mean, is our

[10:42] » I mean, is our

[10:42] uh our code enforcement guy

[10:45] >> going to be able or woman, you know,

[10:47] » going to be able or woman, you know,

[10:47] whoever it is at the time,

[10:49] >> going to be able to go in and say, "Hey,

[10:51] » going to be able to go in and say, "Hey,

[10:51] there's a problem here. If you don't fix

[10:53] it, I'm going to call the burrow and the

[10:55] burrow is going to take these or may

[10:56] take these animals." I mean, are we do

[10:58] we still have control of our code when

[11:01] it comes to animals or does everything

[11:04] shift over to the burrow?

[11:06] >> Once you go area wide or if we go area

[11:09] » Once you go area wide or if we go area

[11:09] wide, then everything shifts over to the

[11:11] burrow and your co your code would then

[11:13] become null and void. Now, I will say

[11:17] that if you have a particular part of

[11:19] your code, and I've told this to the

[11:21] other two cities as well, and let's say

[11:23] you have a a code that says we require

[11:27] all dogs within the city limits to be to

[11:31] have licenses. Well, we don't have that

[11:34] in burough code anymore. So if you

[11:37] wanted that then you could petition the

[11:39] assembly and say we'd like this and

[11:41] other portions of our current code to

[11:44] remain in effect within the city of

[11:46] Wasilla. And then that you would send

[11:49] that to the assembly and the assembly

[11:51] could pass that then as part of title 24

[11:55] specifically only within the city

[11:57] limits.

[11:58] >> Okay.

[11:59] » Okay.

[11:59] >> Other than that other than that your

[12:01] » Other than that other than that your

[12:01] code would would no longer be in effect.

[12:05] >> Okay. Okay. And I see the city attorney

[12:07] » Okay. Okay. And I see the city attorney

[12:07] u may she add to that madam?

[12:10] >> I just want to add to that and I think

[12:11] » I just want to add to that and I think

[12:11] also hopefully delineated an idea that

[12:14] you're putting forward council member

[12:16] Graham which is we still retain our land

[12:18] use authority. So if you're saying there

[12:22] are only two horses allowed on this on a

[12:25] lot this size which would be which would

[12:28] live in title 16. the animal control

[12:32] component doesn't impact that. We would

[12:35] say there's a violation. You're not

[12:37] using your land properly. Now, if we're

[12:39] going to go into the property and take

[12:41] the horses, that's when we're we're

[12:45] entering into the world of uh uh animal

[12:49] care and regulation. That's now going to

[12:51] be if this pass is transferred to the

[12:53] burrow. And I just want to make sure

[12:55] we're all Yes, ma'am.

[12:56] >> Okay. So,

[12:56] » Okay. So,

[12:56] >> oh yeah, land use is definitely

[12:58] » oh yeah, land use is definitely

[12:58] different than the straight animal code.

[13:00] >> Yes.

[13:01] » Yes.

[13:01] >> Thank you,

[13:03] » Thank you,

[13:03] >> Councilman. Deputy mayor, um, just for

[13:06] » Councilman. Deputy mayor, um, just for

[13:06] clarification purposes, if we're to pass

[13:10] ordinance serial number 2541, it is

[13:12] repealing Wasilla Municipal Code, Title

[13:14] 7, Animal Care and Regulation, and

[13:16] transferring the city's jurisdiction and

[13:19] authority over to animal care with the

[13:21] bureau. So, we would not be doing

[13:24] anything other than animals on land use.

[13:26] Our our title 7 um codes would go away.

[13:31] >> Correct.

[13:31] » Correct.

[13:31] >> Yeah. I just I just wanted that for

[13:33] » Yeah. I just I just wanted that for

[13:33] clarification because I think there's a

[13:34] little bit of of mud with with that.

[13:37] >> Yeah. I just wanted to make sure our

[13:38] » Yeah. I just wanted to make sure our

[13:38] land use

[13:39] >> our land use

[13:40] » our land use

[13:40] >> was not going to be affected by this,

[13:42] » was not going to be affected by this,

[13:42] particularly since we just spent two

[13:44] years working on title 16. [laughter]

[13:49] Madame Deputy Mayor,

[13:50] >> Councilman Craftton,

[13:52] » Councilman Craftton,

[13:52] >> thank you. Thank you guys for being

[13:53] » thank you. Thank you guys for being

[13:53] here. Uh, so just to make sure I also uh

[13:56] heard you correctly, if we wanted to do

[13:58] anything, basically we can put more

[14:01] restrictive measures in place if again

[14:03] we uh wanted licenses to use your

[14:06] example uh for for dogs in the city

[14:08] limits. We could, but we would have to

[14:11] go to the burrow to do that. We couldn't

[14:12] do it at the city level anymore.

[14:14] Essentially, we would have to in essence

[14:17] create a resolution stating that this is

[14:18] what we want uh or modify the ordinance

[14:21] before us prior to sending it off to the

[14:23] bureau. And that might jump to Holly or

[14:26] or both of you, but just to clarify,

[14:28] that's what I'm understanding correctly.

[14:29] >> Yes, I think at this stage you're

[14:31] » Yes, I think at this stage you're

[14:31] looking at a whole transfer of the

[14:33] animal regulations and control. Um, I

[14:36] think because of the areawwide

[14:40] concerted effort, if we do want to

[14:42] peacemeal that at all, I think that

[14:44] those discussions would need to go back

[14:47] because what was anticipated by the

[14:48] administration is bringing forward a,

[14:50] you know, a full transfer.

[14:55] » Thank you. No other questions.

[14:59] » There's no further questions. Thank you

[15:01] guys.

[15:02] >> Thank you.

[15:05] » Thank you.

[15:05] We are now at public hearing. Madame

[15:07] clerk, please read the ordinance by

[15:08] title.

[15:09] >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. First

[15:11] » Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. First

[15:11] public hearing this evening is ordinance

[15:12] serial number 2537 repealing Wasilla

[15:16] Municipal Code Chapter 1655 downtown

[15:19] overlay district and amending Wasilla

[15:21] Municipal Code 161025

[15:24] definitions 165010

[15:26] overlay districts and 161201

[15:30] decisions subject to appeal to remove

[15:32] the downtown overlay district in

[15:34] references to that district from Wasilla

[15:36] Municipal Code Title 16.

[15:40] The public hearing on ordinance serial

[15:42] number 25-37 is now open. Anyone wishing

[15:46] to testify, please come forward and

[15:48] begin by stating your first and last

[15:50] name. Comments are limited to three

[15:52] minutes per person.

[16:01] Good evening, madame deputy mayor,

[16:03] council members. My name is David Seals.

[16:06] I'm the current chair of the Wasilla

[16:08] Planning Commission. Um, I'm

[16:13] really excited that this is coming

[16:14] before you tonight for a vote. This is

[16:17] something that a lot of people have

[16:19] worked on for a long time to remove this

[16:22] restrictions from this area. It is a

[16:27] commercial dead zone and has been for a

[16:30] long time because of restrictions.

[16:32] So, uh, I urge that this be passed and

[16:37] if a downtown overlay needs to be done

[16:40] in the future, it can be something that

[16:42] could be looked at. But for now, this

[16:44] all needs to revert back to commercial

[16:47] property and DOT needs to be informed if

[16:50] this is a past that the downtown overlay

[16:54] no longer affects the plans for the

[16:56] couplet. Thank you very much.

[17:06] Seeing nobody else, the public hearing

[17:09] is closed. Is there a motion to adopt

[17:11] ordinance serial number 25-37?

[17:14] >> Madame Deputy Mayor, [clears throat]

[17:16] » Madame Deputy Mayor, [clears throat]

[17:16] I move ordinance serial number 2537.

[17:19] >> Is there a second?

[17:20] » Is there a second?

[17:20] >> I'll second that.

[17:22] » I'll second that.

[17:22] It's been moved by Council Member

[17:24] Craftton and seconded by Council Member

[17:26] Schmidt to adopt ordinance serial number

[17:28] 25-37.

[17:30] Is there discussion?

[17:32] >> Madam Deputy Mayor,

[17:33] » Madam Deputy Mayor,

[17:33] >> Councilman Craftton,

[17:34] » Councilman Craftton,

[17:34] >> thank you. Uh, I am very excited about

[17:37] » thank you. Uh, I am very excited about

[17:37] this one.

[17:39] Uh, this has probably been one of the

[17:41] top complaints that I've gotten from

[17:44] business owners uh here in the city of

[17:46] Wasola. And so I think uh this is a very

[17:49] good thing that we uh are looking at

[17:51] repealing this. I know we had this

[17:53] conversation during title 16 and again I

[17:56] was glad we separated them just because

[17:58] there was it it was it was a lot to work

[17:59] with trying to do both of them at the

[18:01] same time. Um but the other thing that

[18:03] really excites me about this is being

[18:05] able to look at our code and go, "Hey,

[18:07] this just doesn't work for people." And

[18:10] going, "That's okay. We can undo things.

[18:13] We can just get rid of things because

[18:16] it's not working." Um, I feel like a lot

[18:18] of times the government puts thing in

[18:20] things in place and then they want to

[18:21] try and patch it and fix it and try and

[18:24] find a way to make it work because there

[18:25] was a reason why it was put in in the

[18:27] first place. But sometimes you just have

[18:28] to go, "No, this didn't work. We're

[18:30] going to get rid of it and we're going

[18:31] to start over." And uh I'm not saying we

[18:34] need to start over and put another

[18:35] downtown overlay uh in place, but uh

[18:37] like what Mr. Seals said was that uh if

[18:40] there is one necessary for the future,

[18:42] you know, it's a completely different

[18:43] process that we're going to be looking

[18:44] at doing. But I am in full support of

[18:47] repealing the downtown overlay district

[18:49] and I know a lot of people and a lot of

[18:51] business owners will be excited to hear

[18:52] that this gets passed tonight.

[18:58] » Councilman um

[19:00] >> Stu. Yeah, that's me.

[19:01] » Stu. Yeah, that's me.

[19:01] >> No, Graham.

[19:04] » No, Graham.

[19:04] >> Yeah,

[19:06] » Yeah,

[19:06] thank you Councilman Craftton. Good

[19:08] words there. And I too think this needs

[19:11] to be repealed. But I think when it came

[19:13] forward initially, it was a

[19:17] a grand idea. You know, let's revitalize

[19:19] the downtown. Let's let's figure out

[19:21] what makes it work. And this idea was

[19:24] brought in, you know, from other uh

[19:26] small cities uh larger than us, but

[19:28] other small cities to try and revitalize

[19:30] the down revitalize the downtown. So, I

[19:32] I certainly don't want the planning

[19:34] commission uh or the city council to

[19:36] think that they wasted their time on

[19:37] this, but I do think it's important that

[19:39] we uh you know, as uh elected office

[19:44] holders say, you know, hey, we made a

[19:46] mistake. Let's let's fix it. And this is

[19:48] fixing that mistake.

[19:53] » Councilman Schmid.

[19:54] >> Yeah. I also agree um in repealing this

[19:57] » Yeah. I also agree um in repealing this

[19:57] uh as many of the businesses that I

[19:59] talked to, it literally inhibited a lot

[20:01] of different things for business to grow

[20:04] and uh I think getting rid of this is

[20:06] going to be a wise decision.

[20:11] » Madam, Madame Deputy Mayor, Council

[20:13] Member Schmidt, I think we have a

[20:15] microphone problem, so if we could take

[20:16] a brief at ease to get him

[20:19] um a mic, that would be great.

[20:22] [laughter]

[20:23] Darth Vader entered the room.

[20:25] >> We need to start doing some checks at

[20:27] » We need to start doing some checks at

[20:27] the beginning of meetings.

[20:30] » The elected officials need to bring

[20:31] their own mic.

[20:34] [clears throat]

[20:35] >> Thank you.

[20:37] » Thank you.

[20:37] >> Is there further discussion?

[20:41] » Is there further discussion?

[20:41] Hearing none. Is there an objection to

[20:43] the motion?

[20:47] Hearing none. The motion is adopted.

[20:56] Madam clerk, please read ordinance

[20:58] serial number 25-38 by title.

[21:01] >> Thank you. That's amending the fiscal

[21:02] » Thank you. That's amending the fiscal

[21:02] year 2026 budget by accepting and

[21:05] appropriating 340,000

[21:08] from an amendment to the Matnus casuous

[21:09] sit contract to add two new full-time

[21:13] positions at MATCOM. One fire EMS call

[21:16] taker and one dispatcher.

[21:19] The public hearing on ordinance serial

[21:21] number 25-38 is now open. Anyone wishing

[21:25] to testify, please come forward and

[21:27] begin by stating your first and last

[21:29] name.

[21:33] No takers. Okay. Is there a motion to

[21:36] adopt ordinance serial number 25-38?

[21:39] >> Madame Deputy Mayor, I move to adopt

[21:42] » Madame Deputy Mayor, I move to adopt

[21:42] ordinance serial number 2538.

[21:45] >> Is there a second?

[21:48] » Is there a second?

[21:48] Graham seconds.

[21:51] >> It has been moved by council member

[21:52] » It has been moved by council member

[21:52] Codle and seconded by council member

[21:55] Graham to adopt ordinance serial number

[21:57] 2538. Is there discussion?

[22:02] » Councilman Graham.

[22:03] >> Thank you. I I do have just one question

[22:07] » Thank you. I I do have just one question

[22:07] here and hopefully

[22:10] Matt H director can answer it. I mean,

[22:12] we're accepting $340,000

[22:15] uh for these

[22:17] two positions. Is there some sort of,

[22:20] you know, handshake agreement with the

[22:22] bureau that we will continue to do this?

[22:24] Because what we're doing here is we're

[22:25] adding PERS

[22:27] positions here and if the bureau thinks

[22:31] that this is going to be a temporary

[22:33] situation, I'm I'm concerned.

[22:36] >> It's not. Sorry. I'm sorry. Um, can we

[22:40] » It's not. Sorry. I'm sorry. Um, can we

[22:40] ask the TED

[22:43] finance for PERS

[22:44] >> for PERS?

[22:55] uh through uh Deputy Mayor Rubio to uh

[23:00] Council Member Graham is that we have a

[23:04] total number of uh positions and as long

[23:09] as my understanding is we don't do away

[23:11] with the full class

[23:14] that if something would happen and we

[23:16] had to lay off people it wouldn't cause

[23:19] a termination study is my understanding.

[23:23] ing

[23:25] for the

[23:28] >> yeah the problem with PERS I mean a lot

[23:30] » yeah the problem with PERS I mean a lot

[23:30] of times those termination studies those

[23:32] additional costs arise when you

[23:33] eliminate a classification so and that's

[23:36] a that's something we have to think

[23:37] about where a size arcity is of a size

[23:40] that we might eliminate a department if

[23:42] we create a department so we're we're

[23:45] always careful um in that way but this

[23:48] doesn't trigger those types of concerns

[23:53] I'm glad to hear that. But I I would be

[23:54] interested in the other question. I

[23:56] mean, is does the bureau consider this

[23:58] to be a semi-permanent arrangement? I

[24:01] mean, they didn't say, "Let's just try

[24:02] this for a year and see what happens."

[24:04] Or

[24:05] >> they're wanting to try it with the

[24:06] » they're wanting to try it with the

[24:06] part-time uh additional person and then

[24:11] they will continue. They're intent is to

[24:13] continue with the part-time on for the

[24:16] next um contract bid.

[24:20] they may want to go ahead and go a extra

[24:23] full-time person. So, that's what I look

[24:25] for to happen is they'll want another

[24:27] person to add next year, but they were

[24:30] hoping to get this done sooner rather

[24:32] than later so that they can have time to

[24:34] study it before their next budget cycle

[24:36] and make sure they can add another

[24:38] person, too.

[24:40] And are we letting these people that

[24:42] we're bringing on know that this is a

[24:45] temporarily funded position or

[24:48] >> um

[24:48] » um

[24:48] >> test position?

[24:49] » test position?

[24:49] >> We haven't had that discussion yet

[24:51] » We haven't had that discussion yet

[24:51] because we're waiting for confirmation

[24:53] to get this approved. So

[24:58] » I deputy mayor

[24:59] >> Councilman Craftton.

[25:00] » Councilman Craftton.

[25:00] >> Thank you. Sorry. Did you say they're

[25:02] » Thank you. Sorry. Did you say they're

[25:02] wanting to do a part-time position

[25:04] first? Well, it's um they're we're

[25:10] putting an extra person on just halfime.

[25:13] So, adding those two positions is only

[25:15] covering 12 hours out of each day.

[25:19] >> Sorry, Miss Craftton. Yeah, we're going

[25:22] » Sorry, Miss Craftton. Yeah, we're going

[25:22] to relay over to Ted.

[25:24] >> Oh, thanks. Uh, Deputy Mayor and

[25:29] » Oh, thanks. Uh, Deputy Mayor and

[25:29] uh to Councilman Ian, we are requesting

[25:33] two full-time positions,

[25:35] >> correct,

[25:35] » correct,

[25:35] >> for this contract that would go forward

[25:40] » for this contract that would go forward

[25:40] if the council or if the Matsu Burough

[25:44] would uh do an appropriation next year.

[25:48] So this contract amendment that we have

[25:50] for the 340,000

[25:53] is for just FY26

[25:57] and the understanding is that these

[26:00] people are needed and it's doing the or

[26:03] these positions are doing what the

[26:06] bureau is expecting the positions to do

[26:09] that they would come back with another

[26:12] subject to appropriation amendment in

[26:15] FY27.

[26:17] But yes, the

[26:21] [snorts] it is understood in our

[26:23] meetings with uh the

[26:27] burough manager that if

[26:30] we didn't get an amendment

[26:33] next year through the appropriation

[26:36] process in January through June that

[26:41] those two positions would be eliminated.

[26:47] Thank you. Answers my question.

[26:50] >> Is there further discussion

[26:55] » hearing? None.

[26:57] Is there an objection to the motion?

[27:02] Hearing none, the motion is adopted.

[27:10] We are now at persons to be heard. a

[27:13] time for members of the public to share

[27:15] their views with the council. Please

[27:16] note that this is not a question and

[27:18] answer period. Speakers may be referred

[27:20] to administration and items raised may

[27:23] be taken under advisement. Please begin

[27:26] your testimony by stating your first and

[27:28] last name and if you are a city

[27:29] resident, comments are limited to three

[27:32] minutes. First one is William Baxter.

[27:47] I'm I'm William Baxter. I'm from

[27:49] Anchorage, but I used to live out here.

[27:51] My parents lived up fish for uh many

[27:55] years. And uh and um and uh I were I

[28:00] volunteered for FFA and other things I

[28:04] do and and I was at the Graange last

[28:06] night, which is a agriculture program.

[28:08] It's been around since the 1800s. And uh

[28:12] one of the things I I'm trying to do,

[28:14] I'm trying to get a a graange in

[28:16] Anchorage, but also Graange could help

[28:19] with uh like gardening. I think it'd be

[28:23] a good idea to we're we're in Anchorage,

[28:26] we got in Fairview, we have two

[28:29] community gardens and it's a it's a good

[28:32] way to get get the family, you know,

[28:34] people interested in in farming and and

[28:37] uh uh gardening and that and uh it's

[28:41] just a uh I I when I was live when I

[28:45] lived out here in Wasola, my parents my

[28:48] mom was raised on a farm and uh and my

[28:51] dad was uh you know, He liked to uh uh

[28:54] raise chickens and turkeys and that up

[28:56] here on was fish hook and uh and when we

[29:00] were kids we we had our we had ducks and

[29:02] geese and that and 4 is a another good

[29:06] thing one I uh I volunteer for and I I

[29:11] think we need to uh expand our farming

[29:14] more. One of the things I noticed is uh

[29:17] farming is hidden in in in Alaska. When

[29:22] you go white people uh have boats and

[29:25] fishing boats and four-wheelers and that

[29:28] well you see them go down the road. Do

[29:30] you see tractors go down the road and I

[29:33] you come out here now I don't from Wasel

[29:36] to uh from Anchorage you don't see no

[29:38] farms out here anymore along the the the

[29:41] highway. And then uh also you go to

[29:44] Palmer, I don't you know uh you don't

[29:47] you don't see any farms there. You used

[29:48] to see them at Four Corners or big

[29:51] potato potato farm, but it's not there

[29:52] anymore.

[29:54] Thank you.

[29:58] » Tim Sterns

[30:02] » or Tom Sterns. Sorry. There you go. My

[30:05] mic's on now. I don't know. Tom Sterns.

[30:06] >> After all these years,

[30:07] » After all these years,

[30:07] >> I know Tom. Sorry.

[30:09] » I know Tom. Sorry.

[30:09] >> Goodness.

[30:09] » Goodness.

[30:10] >> It could be your handwriting. You know,

[30:11] » It could be your handwriting. You know,

[30:11] you should have been a doctor.

[30:13] >> That that could be the problem. Good

[30:16] » That that could be the problem. Good

[30:16] evening. My name is Tom Sterns. I'm the

[30:18] senior ambassador for the Wasel Area

[30:20] Seniors Incorporated. Um, what's

[30:23] happening at Wasi? Well, most of you

[30:27] probably have already picked up your

[30:29] pies from our my oh my, it's pies and uh

[30:34] and so you know that we just completed a

[30:38] fundraiser. But what you don't know is

[30:41] that we were not expecting one to do

[30:44] this this year. And then just at the

[30:48] end, we we said, "Okay, we'll do it."

[30:51] Our expectation was to get probably

[30:54] maybe $2,000 out of the fundraiser.

[30:58] Once everybody started donating pies and

[31:01] stuff, we ended up with uh a total of

[31:06] $7,000

[31:07] as the uh end total. And uh that that

[31:11] was really uh really exciting. So that

[31:15] was that. Now, what's coming up in the

[31:19] future? Well, the future starts um here

[31:23] on uh Wednesday. Wednesday is one of the

[31:28] best meals that you will find uh in the

[31:31] valley uh at Wasi and uh we put in a

[31:37] very big effort to for our Thanksgiving

[31:41] meal and uh you will see that our place

[31:45] is packed out. Uh it will uh probably

[31:50] have uh 150 people there. uh and it will

[31:55] be a great lunch. Uh and so I would

[31:57] encourage you uh if you have the

[32:00] opportunity to be there for that. Then

[32:03] uh on the 23rd of December, we will do

[32:08] it all over again, different motif.

[32:11] It'll be Christmas and we will have

[32:14] another great meal. and uh uh and so we

[32:18] would uh uh request your presence there

[32:22] for that. Now, one other thing that's

[32:25] happening and it's something that you

[32:27] can all help us with. It's the WASI uh

[32:30] Christmas giving. We do this every year.

[32:33] Uh we collect things for seniors and

[32:37] then we put them in a bag and uh on that

[32:41] 23rd of December uh everybody gets

[32:44] together. They have this great meal and

[32:46] the seniors uh get the opportunity and

[32:50] go to get one of these bags.

[32:53] If you saw the smiles and the um on the

[32:59] faces of the people, it may be the only

[33:02] thing that they get for Christmas and

[33:04] they are so excited and so thankful for

[33:08] that. And that's because of our

[33:12] sponsors, people that help us uh with

[33:15] all these things, collecting all these

[33:16] things and putting them all together.

[33:18] So, we thank you for that.

[33:20] >> Madam Deputy Mayor, can I ask him two

[33:22] » Madam Deputy Mayor, can I ask him two

[33:22] quick clarifying questions?

[33:25] >> Go ahead, Craft.

[33:25] » Go ahead, Craft.

[33:26] >> Thank you. Uh Wednesday, what time was

[33:27] » Thank you. Uh Wednesday, what time was

[33:28] the uh the dinner? I don't think I heard

[33:30] what it was.

[33:32] >> I would suggest you be there by 11:00.

[33:34] » I would suggest you be there by 11:00.

[33:34] Uh it will start probably 11:30, but if

[33:37] you want to see it, uh you want to get

[33:39] there about 11:00.

[33:41] >> Perfect. And then another clarifying

[33:43] » Perfect. And then another clarifying

[33:43] question on your uh giving one here. It

[33:46] says that to shop online, are people

[33:48] allowed to to go other places, you know,

[33:50] try and get the other items from other

[33:52] places they want or do you specifically

[33:53] want them purchased from the ways to

[33:55] give online there?

[33:57] >> Uh no, you can get your gifts from any

[34:00] » Uh no, you can get your gifts from any

[34:00] place and then just give send them over

[34:03] to us. Yeah, perfect. Thank you.

[34:05] >> Anything else? Thank you.

[34:07] » Anything else? Thank you.

[34:07] >> Thank you.

[34:09] » Thank you.

[34:10] We [clears throat] are now at the

[34:10] consent agenda. Madame clerk, please

[34:12] read the items for the approval under

[34:14] the consent agenda by title.

[34:16] >> Thank you, Madame Deputy Mayor. Uh

[34:18] » Thank you, Madame Deputy Mayor. Uh

[34:18] regular meeting minutes, November 10th,

[34:20] 2025. We have three introductions for

[34:23] public hearing date on December 15,

[34:25] 2025. The first is ordinance serial

[34:27] number 2539 amending was municipal code

[34:31] section 504060

[34:33] examination of city financial records

[34:36] and financial statements to change the

[34:38] required completion date of the annual

[34:40] audit from November 30 to January 31st.

[34:44] Ordinance serial number 2540 amending

[34:46] Wasilla Municipal Code section 50430

[34:49] general fixed assets to increase the

[34:52] fixed asset capitalization threshold

[34:55] from 5,000 to 10,000. And lastly,

[34:58] ordinance serial number 2541, repealing

[35:00] Wasilla Municipal Code, Title 7, Animal

[35:03] Care and Regulation, to transfer the

[35:05] city's jurisdiction and authority over

[35:07] animal care to the Matanuska Susettna

[35:09] Bureau on an area basis effective upon

[35:12] the burough's acceptance of such

[35:14] jurisdiction and authority. We have no

[35:16] resolutions and our AM was moved to new

[35:18] business. So that's it.

[35:21] >> Is there a motion to approve the consent

[35:23] » Is there a motion to approve the consent

[35:23] agenda as read?

[35:25] Madame Deputy Mayor, I move to approve

[35:27] the consent agenda as read.

[35:29] >> Is there a second?

[35:30] » Is there a second?

[35:30] >> Madam Deputy mayor, I'll second the

[35:31] » Madam Deputy mayor, I'll second the

[35:31] motion.

[35:32] >> It has been moved by Council Member

[35:33] » It has been moved by Council Member

[35:33] Codle and seconded by Councilman Coun

[35:36] Council Member Craftton to approve the

[35:39] consent agenda as read. Is there any

[35:41] objection?

[35:42] >> Madame uh Deputy Mayor, Madam Clerk, did

[35:46] » Madame uh Deputy Mayor, Madam Clerk, did

[35:46] did I not hear you say that minutes of

[35:49] the meeting were part of it?

[35:51] >> You did. You heard me say that.

[35:53] » You did. You heard me say that.

[35:53] >> Okay. Thank you. Hearing

[35:56] » Okay. Thank you. Hearing

[35:56] none, the consent agenda is approved.

[35:59] There is no unfinished business, so

[36:00] we'll move directly to new business. The

[36:03] city attorney will provide ethics

[36:04] training. Madame Deputy mayor, would the

[36:07] council like to take the two action

[36:09] items first if

[36:11] >> Yes, please.

[36:12] » Yes, please.

[36:12] >> Okay.

[36:13] » Okay.

[36:13] >> No offense, Holly. So if there's no

[36:15] » No offense, Holly. So if there's no

[36:15] objection from the body, we'll begin

[36:16] with AM number 2561, confirmation of the

[36:20] mayoral appointment of Tommy Truit, Dan

[36:22] Fleckenstein, and Megan Montigane.

[36:25] Apologize if I botched that last name.

[36:27] To the parks and recreation commission,

[36:29] Aaron McCarthy to the airport advisory

[36:32] commission, and Carolyn D. Young and

[36:34] Simon Brown to the planning commission.

[36:39] » Motion to adopt.

[36:41] >> Is there a [clears throat] motion to

[36:42] » Is there a [clears throat] motion to

[36:42] adopt?

[36:44] Madame Mayor, I move AM2561.

[36:47] >> Is there a second?

[36:48] » Is there a second?

[36:48] >> Codle seconds.

[36:50] » Codle seconds.

[36:50] >> Motion has been moved by Councilman

[36:52] » Motion has been moved by Councilman

[36:52] Graham and second by Council Member

[36:55] Codle to approve.

[36:57] >> Deputy mayor.

[36:59] » Deputy mayor.

[36:59] >> Councilman Craftton.

[37:01] » Councilman Craftton.

[37:01] >> I mean Graham. Whoops.

[37:03] » I mean Graham. Whoops.

[37:03] >> I've been called much worse.

[37:04] » I've been called much worse.

[37:04] >> Okay. Uh I I move to uh postpone to the

[37:08] » Okay. Uh I I move to uh postpone to the

[37:08] next regular meeting u uh due to the

[37:11] fact that this is a mayoral appointments

[37:13] and the mayor is not here to speak to

[37:14] this.

[37:17] >> Is there a second?

[37:19] » Is there a second?

[37:19] >> I'll second the motion.

[37:23] » Want me to read that? You want to read

[37:24] it? No. Is there any objection?

[37:26] >> Is there an objection?

[37:27] » Is there an objection?

[37:27] >> Did we discuss it first? I just had a

[37:29] » Did we discuss it first? I just had a

[37:29] quick question though. Uh mostly just I

[37:32] think it probably be of our clerk uh the

[37:34] Tommy Truit situation here. Are we are

[37:37] we going to just strike it at the next

[37:39] meeting then at this point? It just

[37:40] carries over for now or

[37:42] >> since the motion to postpone has already

[37:44] » since the motion to postpone has already

[37:44] been moved and is on the floor. Um we'll

[37:47] wait to amend.

[37:48] >> Okay. Thank you.

[37:57] » You ready?

[37:59] So no objection then to the

[38:00] postponement.

[38:02] Madame deputy mayor, if I may, we'll

[38:03] move on then to the resolution serial

[38:05] number 2537 authorizing the Matuskus at

[38:08] Nuro to provide areawide animal care

[38:11] services within the city of Wasilla.

[38:14] >> Is there a motion to adopt resolution

[38:16] » Is there a motion to adopt resolution

[38:16] serial number 25-37?

[38:18] >> Madame deputy mayor, I move to adopt

[38:21] » Madame deputy mayor, I move to adopt

[38:21] resolution serial number 2537.

[38:23] >> Is there a second?

[38:27] » Is there a second?

[38:27] Graham seconds.

[38:28] >> It has been moved by Council Member

[38:29] » It has been moved by Council Member

[38:29] Codle and seconded by Council Member

[38:31] Graham to adopt resolution serial number

[38:33] 25-37.

[38:35] Is there discussion?

[38:39] » Council member Graham.

[38:41] >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. I I I

[38:44] » Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. I I I

[38:44] can't think of any reason to object to

[38:46] this. The bureau is the one that has the

[38:48] experience, the continuous continuous

[38:51] experience uh uh dealing with animals.

[38:54] the the burrow uh is the one who owns

[38:57] and operates the animal shelter and and

[38:59] has improved that over time. So, as time

[39:02] goes by, they're getting better and

[39:04] better. Instead of getting more and more

[39:05] complaints, it's getting less and less.

[39:07] So, yeah, this is a uh a wise move for

[39:12] the city to let people with expertise

[39:14] handle this. Thank you.

[39:19] » Is there further discussion

[39:23] hearing? None. Is there an objection to

[39:25] the motion?

[39:28] Hearing none, the motion is adopted.

[39:36] » Next, we have ethics training by city

[39:39] attorney Holly Wells.

[39:43] » Thank you. I'm just gonna I think I use

[39:46] this over here, Sarah, or

[39:48] >> is it on?

[40:00] Okay. So, first I want to say you have a

[40:02] PowerPoint in front of you. We're going

[40:03] to have sort of a ethics training a um

[40:08] that's incorporated into the meeting to

[40:10] the extent that council finds that they

[40:12] want a freestanding independent ethics

[40:14] training at some point and that would be

[40:17] a a conversation with the clerk. Of

[40:18] course, that is something we can do as

[40:20] well. But we thought we'd try this

[40:22] approach first. Um, in part because

[40:24] several council members were on the

[40:27] council when we were um when the ethics

[40:30] code was adopted in 2022 or were engaged

[40:34] in I think there may have been um

[40:36] commission members at that time. So it's

[40:39] a fairly recent code adoption and um so

[40:45] hopefully some of these provisions will

[40:47] feel familiar and there's a greater

[40:51] understanding of them. Uh that said,

[40:53] this is a um 13 or so page PowerPoint

[40:57] and it is designed to be a reference for

[41:00] you even though I don't plan on going

[41:04] through this PowerPoint line by line. I

[41:06] don't think that's in your best

[41:07] interest.

[41:09] Um so moving on, first and foremost, the

[41:12] Wasola Code of Ethics has a really

[41:14] strong purpose statement. Um, and this

[41:18] purpose statement is a guiding

[41:21] interpretation

[41:23] piece for the city. So, as you're trying

[41:25] to when you look at what the prohibited

[41:27] acts are or when you're thinking about

[41:29] your own conduct as an elected official,

[41:33] one of the places to ground yourself is

[41:35] in the purpose statement. I'm going to

[41:36] read that purpose statement because I

[41:39] think that it's helpful to have both in

[41:41] the record and for the public to know,

[41:43] but also as a reminder. The purpose of

[41:46] the Waselis code of ethics uh states

[41:49] that the city expects all city officials

[41:51] to serve the public with equality,

[41:53] honesty, and transparency, and to take

[41:56] actions that the official believes best

[41:58] serve the public and city. The public

[42:00] has a right to conscientious, loyal,

[42:02] faithful, and unbiased service by its

[42:04] officials performed free of deceit,

[42:06] undue influence, conflict of interest,

[42:08] self-enrichment, self-deing,

[42:10] concealment, bribery, fraud, and

[42:12] corruption. The city has an obligation

[42:14] to the public and city officials to

[42:16] establish standards of ethical conduct.

[42:18] Promote ethics education for all city

[42:20] officials. Provide clear guidance to

[42:22] city officials of the ethical procedures

[42:24] and standards of the city. Recommend

[42:26] procedures that promote ethical

[42:28] behavior. And hold city officials

[42:30] responsible and accountable for their

[42:31] behavior. and promote procedures that

[42:34] protect city officials, employees, and

[42:35] members of the public from harassment or

[42:38] retribution should they raise concerns

[42:40] about activities that do not appear to

[42:42] be in line with ethical behaviors. So,

[42:45] this is a very strong purpose statement

[42:47] as you can see. And one of the things I

[42:50] can say and you should be very proud of

[42:52] is there are very few ethics complaints

[42:54] in the city. Um, and there are um it is

[42:59] very unusual to see violations of the

[43:03] ethics code, but the council members do

[43:06] also ask questions. Whether you're

[43:09] asking of the clerk or you're uh seeking

[43:11] advisory opinions of the city attorney,

[43:14] you really do use those components of

[43:16] your code and it's very healthy um in

[43:19] its um in its administration. So the

[43:24] other thing to note is that OELA's code

[43:26] of ethics is not um blind to the fact

[43:29] that you're in a small town and if you

[43:32] prohibit all interests or actions on

[43:36] items that you may have any interests

[43:38] that you'll make no decisions at all. So

[43:41] that is incorporated into the language

[43:43] of the code and it recognizes that

[43:48] um that you need to protect the public

[43:50] from decisions that involve substantial

[43:52] [music] finan financial interests but

[43:54] make sure that um the council members

[43:57] are engaged in making decisions. um so

[44:00] that and that

[44:03] people who want to serve as elected

[44:05] officials retain the rights to personal

[44:07] and financial interests and that there's

[44:09] an outlet there for them. So in 2.0130C

[44:15] is where you really get language that

[44:17] strikes that balance.

[44:21] So one of the most important things to

[44:23] understand with the code of ethics and

[44:24] it can get a little confusing is who is

[44:26] covered. So, a council when they adopted

[44:29] this uh with a code of ethics years ago,

[44:32] um although not that many years ago,

[44:34] they um they included the city clerk and

[44:38] the city attorney as city officials. It

[44:40] also includes the elected officials of

[44:43] the city and appointees to commissions.

[44:47] So, that's an important So, it does not

[44:49] include and that's what it's important

[44:50] to note. It does not include city

[44:52] employees. Now, city employees are

[44:55] subject to a lot of ethics provisions.

[44:57] We'll talk a little bit about that. And

[44:59] they and there there are some of these

[45:02] ethics provisions from title two that

[45:04] are incorporated into title three and

[45:06] apply to city employees, but the

[45:08] consequences of a violation are

[45:10] different. All right? So they they may

[45:12] be subject to discipline action for

[45:14] example whereas

[45:17] they the ethics complaint process is

[45:19] reserved for these elected and uh

[45:21] appointed officials and the city

[45:23] attorney and the city clerk.

[45:29] » I'm not going to spend too much time on

[45:31] the conflict of interest piece because I

[45:33] feel like that's the piece we work with

[45:36] regularly. council is and council

[45:38] members are repeatedly declaring a

[45:40] conflict of interest when they I'm

[45:41] sorry, declaring a financial interest

[45:43] when they have one and disclosing it and

[45:46] then the mayor determines if that

[45:49] interest is substantial or is not

[45:51] substantial. If the council disagrees

[45:54] with the mayor's decision, the council

[45:56] can make a motion um and find otherwise.

[45:59] Uh similarly if the mayor is the one who

[46:02] has a interest um that interest is

[46:06] decided upon by the council and so that

[46:09] basic uh construct I believe all of you

[46:12] are familiar with that if anyone feels

[46:13] like they want to go through that in

[46:14] more detail raise your hand okay moving

[46:18] on so substantial financial interest

[46:21] I've included the provision regarding

[46:23] what that is in this uh training I don't

[46:26] think we need to go through it I feel

[46:28] like you're very familiar with it. Um I

[46:31] think one of the things to note is that

[46:35] the substantial financial interest test

[46:37] adopted by Wasilla

[46:40] mirrors the test adopted by the courts.

[46:43] And so while some municipalities will

[46:46] just have a number, Wasilla has a has

[46:49] factors that are weighed in determining

[46:51] whether or not an interest is

[46:52] substantial. Those factors are whether

[46:55] the financial interest is a substantial

[46:57] part of the consideration, whether the

[47:00] interest will be significantly impacted

[47:01] or changed by the outcome of the

[47:04] official action, whether the interest is

[47:06] immediate and known or attenuated and

[47:09] dependent on factors beyond the official

[47:11] action, and whether a reasonable person

[47:14] would consider the financial interest

[47:16] significant and would expect a person to

[47:19] take actions and make decisions to

[47:20] protect that financial interest. We get

[47:23] these from case law. We get these from

[47:25] the court. This is what they think a

[47:27] financial interest, a substantial

[47:29] financial interest looks like. But one

[47:31] of the things that Wasa did do to ensure

[47:34] that we can answer these questions a

[47:36] little easier or have uh it they adopted

[47:39] a presumption of substantial financial

[47:43] interest for uh interest that with a gr

[47:47] greater than $1,000.

[47:49] So, what I expect to see as time goes on

[47:52] is council considering that number

[47:54] because clearly $1,000 today is not

[47:58] $1,000 five years from now and $1,000 in

[48:01] 2022 is not even $1,000 today. You know,

[48:04] so that's one of the things as council

[48:06] members, as you're navigating out there,

[48:09] remember that the purpose of your ethics

[48:11] code is to find balance between

[48:15] your interests and your involvement in

[48:17] your community and your role as a

[48:19] council member or or the role of a

[48:21] commissioner. Um, and so that number may

[48:24] need to change [music] at times. You

[48:26] shouldn't be afraid to talk with the

[48:28] clerk about bringing, you know,

[48:30] sponsorship or bringing something

[48:31] forward, if that makes sense.

[48:34] Does anybody have any questions so far?

[48:36] I'm moving quickly because I want to

[48:38] cover all of the things and there's

[48:39] quite a few prohibited acts. So, but um

[48:43] one of the things we incorporated is

[48:45] something that also exists in what we

[48:47] call common law, right? Under case law,

[48:50] and that's called the rule of necessity.

[48:52] This is used a lot by the courts

[48:54] regardless of whether or not it's in

[48:56] your code, but not a lot of communities

[48:58] have expressly adopted it. I think one

[49:01] of the things that uh the good things

[49:04] about putting it in your code is you

[49:06] know you're going to use it right if you

[49:08] end up using it instead of relying on it

[49:10] because you didn't have anything to use

[49:12] and so just issued a decision or even

[49:15] worse just become paralyzed and unable

[49:18] to make a decision. So the rule of

[49:19] necessity is designed to allow a uh body

[49:24] to make a decision when they are not

[49:27] going to get to a majority vote with

[49:32] uninterested

[49:34] members. So it's one of those things you

[49:36] have a very important decision. It has

[49:38] to be issued but maybe three of your

[49:40] council members have a conflict on that

[49:43] thing. And the alternative is that you

[49:45] just don't get to make a decision on

[49:47] that issue, you know. So that is that is

[49:50] not an outcome that

[49:54] bodess well for a city if it's an

[49:55] important decision that you need to

[49:57] make. So what this does is it creates a

[49:59] rule of necessity and there's three

[50:01] provisions. Um so the provisions are it

[50:05] would apply but only where by reason of

[50:08] being excused for conflicts of interest

[50:10] the number of council members is reduced

[50:12] to [music] less than the minimum number

[50:14] required to approve the official action.

[50:16] No other body of the city has

[50:18] jurisdiction and authority to take the

[50:20] official action. The and the official

[50:23] official action cannot be set aside to a

[50:25] later date within a reasonable time when

[50:27] council could obtain the minimum number

[50:29] of members to take action who are not

[50:31] excused. Basically meaning that conflict

[50:34] is just going to be there you know for a

[50:37] long period of time and you just cannot

[50:39] escape it. So that is the rule of

[50:41] necessity and it's good for the public

[50:42] to know about that too because when it

[50:44] comes up you know it's unusual.

[50:47] >> I don't believe the rule of necessity

[50:49] » I don't believe the rule of necessity

[50:49] has been used since this was adopted. So

[50:53] it's not it's very very rare.

[50:56] >> Thank you. So curiosity kind of thing.

[50:58] » Thank you. So curiosity kind of thing.

[50:58] Basically what what ends up happening is

[51:00] the council's going to vote and it's

[51:02] just kind of hey everybody's got a

[51:03] conflict of interest here or most of the

[51:05] council has a conflict of interest.

[51:06] We're going to vote on this matter. Does

[51:09] anybody can do I ask this? Is a member

[51:13] of the public able to step in and say

[51:15] hey you know I feel like the vote should

[51:18] have gone a different way. I mean, what

[51:20] would be the repercussions or actions

[51:22] that somebody could take if something

[51:24] like this were to happen and basically

[51:26] said and they somebody felt that the

[51:28] council made a decision completely

[51:31] biased because of the conflict of

[51:32] interest. I mean, is that in place

[51:35] somewhere? Well, I mean, I think where

[51:37] what it is is you would look to case law

[51:38] and say the rule of necessity is a rule

[51:42] of law that is respected and applicable

[51:46] and has been found to comply with the

[51:50] what is in essence a sub a substantive

[51:53] due process consideration. Are you

[51:55] making an arbitrary decision? you know,

[51:57] and if you're making a quasi judicial

[51:59] decision, which council rarely if ever

[52:02] does, but in theory could, um, there's a

[52:05] provision in your code of ethics that

[52:07] allows that gives a hearing officer

[52:11] jurisdiction to hear a uh to to hear a

[52:17] matter if the rule of necessity would

[52:20] otherwise be triggered. So you protect

[52:22] in that sense and if it's going to be

[52:24] quasi judicial

[52:26] it would go to a hearing officer because

[52:29] under the rule of necessity it says if

[52:31] anybody else has jurisdiction to hear it

[52:33] right that they they're going to hear

[52:35] it. You can only decide it if there's no

[52:38] if no other body or person has

[52:40] jurisdiction to hear it. So you

[52:42] protected those quasi judicial pieces,

[52:45] but in the realm of legislation,

[52:48] this code would protect you legally if

[52:51] it's followed. And that's why um that

[52:55] doesn't mean, you know, so it could go

[52:57] to court. And again, you never know

[52:58] what's going to happen in court, but you

[53:00] would have local law and state case law

[53:05] that supported the cities what the city

[53:08] did, which is pretty um pretty strong

[53:11] support

[53:12] >> to follow up. Um and it's

[53:13] » to follow up. Um and it's

[53:13] [clears throat] I guess I wasn't asking

[53:14] the question of whether they had the

[53:16] right to make the vote. Obviously, they

[53:18] do. It's more so a resident said, "Hey,

[53:20] I don't think that was the way you

[53:22] should have voted that I believe you

[53:23] were biased and that you voted in favor

[53:26] of your bias." Uh does somebody have a

[53:29] repercussion or or would you basically

[53:31] like what you said it just needs to end

[53:32] up in court at that point or hope that

[53:34] the council goes obviously we're biased

[53:36] here so we're going to say no or yes

[53:38] whatever the factor might be to to make

[53:40] the decision so that

[53:42] >> they can kind of say hey we even though

[53:44] » they can kind of say hey we even though

[53:44] we're biased we're going to not go do

[53:46] this thing or do this thing depending on

[53:48] how what the outcome was.

[53:49] >> Yeah. I mean I think what council will

[53:51] » Yeah. I mean I think what council will

[53:51] have to do is try not to be arbitrary.

[53:53] You know, that's that's the only and

[53:55] that's what you can say to the public is

[53:57] we had to use the rule of necessity. We

[54:00] worked really hard to issue findings

[54:02] like to share our reasons to make sure

[54:04] we had reasons and to make sure we

[54:06] didn't make an arbitrary decision.

[54:09] We can't guarantee that our biases sort

[54:11] of didn't come into, you know, our

[54:14] votes, but we can we can guarantee that

[54:17] we do not make an arbitrary decision,

[54:19] which ultimately is what the courts are

[54:21] looking at. when you make a legislative

[54:23] decision that is the question. I mean

[54:26] obviously there's if you make a decision

[54:28] that violates some other federal or

[54:30] state law or you know is discriminatory

[54:32] or violates the constitution but other

[54:35] than that assuming it doesn't do those

[54:36] things the question is have you made a

[54:40] decision that is uh that is not

[54:42] unreasonable

[54:44] that is intentional so to make it even

[54:47] sort of less it's not

[54:49] that has to be unreasonable has to be

[54:51] not unreasonable or arbitrary.

[54:54] So that's Thank you.

[54:58] >> And

[54:59] » And

[54:59] >> Madam Deputy Mayor Tim Johnson,

[55:01] » Madam Deputy Mayor Tim Johnson,

[55:01] >> Councilman Johnson.

[55:05] » Councilman Johnson.

[55:05] >> Uh, the way I'm seeing this is the rule

[55:08] » Uh, the way I'm seeing this is the rule

[55:08] of necessity then will actually protect

[55:11] the councilmen that would have the

[55:14] conflict of interest, but it really

[55:17] wouldn't take the council as a whole off

[55:20] the hook. Is that correct?

[55:23] >> Yeah. I mean, I think you still have to

[55:25] » Yeah. I mean, I think you still have to

[55:25] act in a way that's not unreasonable and

[55:29] is not arbitrary, you know. So, council

[55:31] will still need to do that. The rule of

[55:33] necessity says, look, we either can make

[55:36] a decision and govern or we can do

[55:40] nothing and not be able to govern a

[55:43] particular area of um you know, of our

[55:47] that's within our authority that we need

[55:49] to be doing. So, it's it's pro it's it's

[55:53] designed to protect the keep the wheels

[55:56] turning on a city, you know, or a

[55:59] burrow, any municipality really. Does

[56:02] that answer your question question,

[56:04] Council Member Johnson? So, I don't know

[56:05] if they're really on the hook, but

[56:06] you're right that they're on the hook to

[56:09] make decisions in the same way that they

[56:11] normally

[56:13] are required

[56:14] to do.

[56:15] >> Yes, that would be the way I'd

[56:17] » Yes, that would be the way I'd

[56:17] understand it. It would provide a path

[56:19] forward.

[56:21] >> Yes, exactly.

[56:23] » Yes, exactly.

[56:23] And again, hasn't come up. So, it's just

[56:26] it's an interesting

[56:28] uh rule. It's important that it's there,

[56:30] but so far we haven't had to to use it.

[56:34] Thank goodness.

[56:36] So, um and council member Johnson, I am

[56:40] not sure. We're on slide seven and I

[56:43] have not been cute. I haven't been

[56:44] saying that. I'm sorry.

[56:47] That's helpful.

[56:50] Okay.

[56:52] And we're moving on to slide eight.

[56:56] And so here what we're really looking

[56:58] at. So there's the conflict of interest.

[57:00] That's where we spend most of our time

[57:02] with code of ethics, but lots of

[57:03] communities have conflicts of interest

[57:05] provisions. So where where is it that we

[57:09] really start to see the meat of your

[57:12] code? And that is in the prohibited acts

[57:14] that are listed in 2.01.

[57:16] uh 060 and that is where we look at all

[57:20] we have like sort of a laundry list of

[57:22] things that city officials are

[57:25] prohibited from doing. So one the city

[57:29] officials are prohibited from making

[57:30] false statements.

[57:32] So this is important to note. So they

[57:34] cannot make false statements in order to

[57:37] influence official action. So that means

[57:39] we're not out there policing the

[57:42] statements of city officials in all

[57:44] areas, right? We uh we do however um the

[57:49] city does have the ability to um to look

[57:54] at false statements that are made to

[57:56] influence official action. And remember,

[57:58] we'll talk about this a little bit

[57:59] later, but we have an e the ethics

[58:01] complaint process means that the public

[58:03] also can hold city officials accountable

[58:06] for what are perceived or alleged false

[58:09] statements. Uh inappropriate use of

[58:12] title or authority. So that is also

[58:14] prohibited. No city official shall use

[58:17] the implied authority of their office or

[58:19] position for the purpose of unduly

[58:21] influencing the decisions of others or

[58:24] promoting more personal interests within

[58:26] the community unless duly appointed by

[58:28] council to represent the interests of

[58:30] the full council. Council members shall

[58:32] refrain from implying the representation

[58:34] of the whole uh by the use of their

[58:36] title. So, this is one of those things.

[58:39] It it I highly recommend

[58:42] just calling the clerk as your first

[58:45] step in the process when sometimes

[58:48] you're going to be at an event and

[58:50] you're not really sure what hat you have

[58:52] on and you're not really sure if you're

[58:54] there in an official capacity. There it

[58:57] can get the lines can get blurred. um

[59:00] especially when um you know there may be

[59:04] sort of a lobbying effort in Juno or a

[59:08] attending a chamber meeting and you're

[59:10] wearing many hats, you know. So it's

[59:12] just it's a good uh this is a good one

[59:15] to keep your eye on and make sure you

[59:17] watch and sometimes just get comfortable

[59:19] saying things like I'm here in my

[59:21] private capacity or this is my opinion

[59:23] in my personal capacity. Um, and then

[59:27] for council to when you want someone to

[59:30] speak for council, making sure you give

[59:33] them the protection uh to do that by

[59:36] passing a resolution or something um

[59:38] that puts them in that position. So

[59:41] representing private interests um is

[59:44] also prohibited. So no city official

[59:47] shall for compensation and that is an

[59:49] important distinction represent or

[59:51] assist those representing private

[59:53] business or personal interest before

[59:55] council administration or any city board

[59:58] um any city board commission or agency.

[1:00:04] Nothing in this section, however,

[1:00:06] prevents an official from making verbal

[1:00:08] or written inquiries on behalf of

[1:00:10] constituents or the general public to

[1:00:13] elements of city government or from

[1:00:15] requesting explanations or additional

[1:00:17] information on behalf of their

[1:00:18] constituents. No official may solicit or

[1:00:21] accept a benefit or anything of value

[1:00:23] from any [music] person for having

[1:00:24] performed this service. This is just

[1:00:27] trying to prevent that dance between a

[1:00:31] council member as a persuasive

[1:00:36] vote on council and voice on council and

[1:00:39] a consultant in the community where

[1:00:42] people are compensating you because of

[1:00:44] the power of your voice with the very

[1:00:46] body you're trying to influence. Right?

[1:00:47] So that is what these uh prohibitions

[1:00:50] against representing private interests

[1:00:52] are designed to address. A lot of

[1:00:54] communities have both this one and the

[1:00:56] inappropriate use or title. Uh, a lot of

[1:00:59] communities have both of those. They'll

[1:01:00] have them as separate or distinct

[1:01:02] provisions, though not necessarily

[1:01:04] incorporated into a code of ethics.

[1:01:09] So, another pro prohibition is one

[1:01:11] against disseminating confidential

[1:01:13] information.

[1:01:14] Most uh most communities prohibit this

[1:01:17] in some way, but a lot of them fail to

[1:01:21] codify it in a way that it can be

[1:01:23] enforced. And so this is something that

[1:01:26] was chosen to do.

[1:01:29] Uh the other is gratuitities is another

[1:01:33] prohibition. It's really important for

[1:01:35] you to read that one. That's another one

[1:01:37] with a number. So it's another one to

[1:01:38] keep in mind. The number right now is

[1:01:40] meals under $75 in value are not

[1:01:43] prohibited. I believe that that's the

[1:01:46] same thing for gifts. Nothing uh it's

[1:01:48] not prohibited if it's an occasional

[1:01:52] what they call non-puniary gift and it's

[1:01:54] less than $75 in value. Um also it's not

[1:01:59] prohibited to receive a gift presented

[1:02:01] by an employer to its employees in

[1:02:03] recognition of meritorious service or

[1:02:05] civic or public awards.

[1:02:08] um any discounts or prizes that are

[1:02:11] generally available to the public or

[1:02:13] large sections of the public. When you

[1:02:15] serve as a council member or city

[1:02:16] official, you don't lose your right to

[1:02:18] be and participate as a member of the

[1:02:21] public. So, any benefit that goes to the

[1:02:23] public, um any um prizes, any fun,

[1:02:29] you know, handout or I don't know,

[1:02:32] privilege or it's not you're never going

[1:02:34] to be asked to forfeit that because we

[1:02:37] can't because you have the same

[1:02:38] protections. [snorts]

[1:02:39] Not because we can. I'm not saying the

[1:02:41] city would take that from you if they

[1:02:42] could. I'm just saying that uh that

[1:02:45] that's one way to think of it is am I

[1:02:47] participating as a member of the public?

[1:02:49] if you come across something and you

[1:02:50] wonder can I do this as a council member

[1:02:53] you know the answer is going to be yes

[1:02:54] if it's open to the public um and now

[1:02:57] that said to the extent can you all do

[1:03:00] it together at a specific time that

[1:03:02] might be different under the open

[1:03:03] meetings act um so here are your so

[1:03:07] gratuitities you want to pay attention

[1:03:09] to that number you want to pay attention

[1:03:10] to because things are going up really

[1:03:13] fast you know and I feel like $75 should

[1:03:17] be fine to cover a meal

[1:03:19] But I think you should be watching your

[1:03:22] your checks on that just because I think

[1:03:25] it's starting to it's starting to go up.

[1:03:27] Um and you could have a nice dinner and

[1:03:30] a few drinks when you're in a position

[1:03:32] where you're you know you are um that

[1:03:35] would normally be something you don't

[1:03:37] think about. Someone offers to to um

[1:03:40] treat you and you're at $85. I can't

[1:03:44] believe I'm saying that but that

[1:03:46] possible. Um, so, uh, use of city

[1:03:50] property for personal purposes is also

[1:03:53] prohibited. So, you want to make sure

[1:03:55] you read that to the if you're in a

[1:03:57] position where you're using city

[1:03:59] property. You know, I think you can

[1:04:00] ignore it unless that unless that

[1:04:02] occurs. Um,

[1:04:06] and we've got more. Political activities

[1:04:08] are prohibited. Um, certain political

[1:04:11] activities. And this one's really

[1:04:12] important to pay attention to because

[1:04:15] this is another one you can fall into. A

[1:04:17] city official may not take an active

[1:04:19] part in a political campaign or other

[1:04:21] political activity when on duty. Now,

[1:04:24] nothing here prevents city officials

[1:04:27] from exercising a right to vote,

[1:04:29] contribute to a campaign or a candidate,

[1:04:31] or expressing officials political views

[1:04:33] when they are not on duty or engaging

[1:04:36] with the public in their capacity as a

[1:04:38] city official. But what you have to

[1:04:40] watch is if you show up somewhere and

[1:04:43] you introduce yourself as a city council

[1:04:47] member or you're attending something and

[1:04:49] you're talking about the interests of

[1:04:50] council or you're there in your capacity

[1:04:52] as a member of council and then you

[1:04:55] start sharing your political viewpoints

[1:04:56] on a candidate. Um that is something to

[1:04:59] be very wary of. uh it's very easy to

[1:05:03] either get sideways or perhaps more

[1:05:06] importantly appear to get sideways of

[1:05:08] this pro prohibition. And while ethics

[1:05:11] complaints um there they there's a

[1:05:14] process to vet them and make sure that

[1:05:16] you are not you are not

[1:05:20] sanctioned or there are no remedies

[1:05:22] given for a violation that does not

[1:05:23] occur. It is still a process and it is

[1:05:26] still unnerving to go through a process

[1:05:29] when people think there's a violation.

[1:05:30] So, for that reason, I would say really

[1:05:33] pay attention to what hat you have on

[1:05:35] and how you're communicating. And if you

[1:05:37] have any questions about that, either

[1:05:40] get an advisory opinion so you have that

[1:05:42] to sort of carry around with you or or

[1:05:45] um call the clerk and kind of talk it

[1:05:48] through if that's okay, Jamie, first and

[1:05:50] then she can help you identify what best

[1:05:53] steps, next steps. I'm gonna take a

[1:05:56] breath. Anybody have any questions? I've

[1:05:59] gone through quite a few.

[1:06:01] Okay. Is this pace okay or is this a

[1:06:04] little too quick? Not quick enough.

[1:06:07] >> Okay. All right. I'll keep going. All

[1:06:08] » Okay. All right. I'll keep going. All

[1:06:08] right. Improper influence. A city

[1:06:11] official may not contact the employer of

[1:06:13] other city officials or threaten

[1:06:15] financial harm to other city officials

[1:06:18] um in an attempt to influence their

[1:06:20] actions, votes, or positions. This is

[1:06:22] something you would not something I've

[1:06:24] seen in Wasela, but I have seen this

[1:06:27] numerous times. And so this is an

[1:06:29] important one to have in your code, but

[1:06:31] um so far maybe not for you guys. You're

[1:06:34] doing great. So impartiality in

[1:06:37] conducting city business. Um

[1:06:40] this one is very very strong for a

[1:06:44] community. Um and it was something that

[1:06:47] council wanted and it's in line with

[1:06:49] your oath. But I I just want you to be

[1:06:52] aware that the prohibition against

[1:06:55] acting impartially when conducting city

[1:06:57] business in a blanket sense is very um

[1:07:02] very strong. Now that said, almost every

[1:07:04] community has an element of that in

[1:07:06] their oath of office, but a few carry it

[1:07:08] through in their code. What it means is

[1:07:10] the way I interpret this is there are

[1:07:13] the actions you take as council members

[1:07:15] that come before you as a body. There's

[1:07:17] procurement. There's all of those

[1:07:19] things. So you declare any substant or

[1:07:22] any financial interest you have. Council

[1:07:24] decides if it's substantial and that's

[1:07:26] sort of the model for that right. Uh as

[1:07:29] far as partiality whether or not you are

[1:07:33] impartial that you need to disclose that

[1:07:37] and that is something that is determined

[1:07:40] in a quasi judicial proceeding. Here

[1:07:43] there is a presumption that you will

[1:07:46] tell you know you will disclose if you

[1:07:51] are acting impartially or in a position

[1:07:53] to act impartially which means when we

[1:07:56] look at what that what what the

[1:07:58] difference between being say having a

[1:08:00] substantial financial interest which is

[1:08:02] tangible and being partial or impartial

[1:08:05] it really comes down to what

[1:08:08] you believe right what you do you think

[1:08:11] you're partial or impartial for purposes

[1:08:14] of legislative actions. And so the only

[1:08:18] so if this comes up where you are

[1:08:22] sponsoring or introducing an ordinance

[1:08:24] or an action

[1:08:27] then we're going to look at would a

[1:08:28] reason what would a reasonable person

[1:08:30] believe you know would they believe that

[1:08:32] there's but if you were acting in your

[1:08:34] passive role as a council member and

[1:08:36] things are coming to you I think we

[1:08:38] would based on the law we would be

[1:08:41] looking at you to act lawfully and

[1:08:45] comply with the law. So, that's just

[1:08:46] sort of to give you some because that

[1:08:48] one's really hard. It's hard to

[1:08:50] navigate. Um, but when in doubt,

[1:08:52] disclose. Raise the issue if you think

[1:08:54] that you may be um impartial or if

[1:08:58] you're you're I or partial or if you're

[1:09:01] certain that you're impartial, but you

[1:09:03] want the public to know that this is

[1:09:05] your best friend or this is somebody

[1:09:07] that you know that there's some interest

[1:09:11] that exists there. Um, but that you feel

[1:09:14] like you could make a

[1:09:16] impartial decision, you know, so that's

[1:09:18] a conversation with the public. Any

[1:09:20] questions on that one?

[1:09:23] Okay. Um,

[1:09:26] all right. Employment and financial

[1:09:28] disclosures. talked a little bit about

[1:09:29] this, so I won't go into it too much um

[1:09:32] as far as um you know who the code

[1:09:37] covers, but it's also important for you

[1:09:40] to remember that council member during

[1:09:41] your term council members may not

[1:09:43] represent or advise a person in any

[1:09:45] manner pending before a city body. So

[1:09:48] that's a restriction that can be can

[1:09:50] have a cost, you know, so it's very

[1:09:52] important the council members are aware

[1:09:54] of that. Um during also during the term

[1:09:57] for which uh elected and for one year

[1:10:00] after leaving office, city council

[1:10:02] members and the mayor are not eligible

[1:10:04] for city employment unless it comes back

[1:10:06] to council and they approve it, which I

[1:10:09] don't know, Jamie, has that ever

[1:10:10] happened where we've had

[1:10:12] >> not to my knowledge.

[1:10:13] » not to my knowledge.

[1:10:13] >> Okay.

[1:10:15] » Okay.

[1:10:15] >> Um finally, don't forget to complete

[1:10:17] » Um finally, don't forget to complete

[1:10:17] your financial disclosure statements

[1:10:19] every year and that's in that lives in

[1:10:21] the code of ethics as well.

[1:10:26] So, another area that's encompassed into

[1:10:27] the code of ethics, and this has been in

[1:10:29] your code for a long time, but it was

[1:10:31] moved over to the code of ethics um when

[1:10:33] it was when the code of ethics was

[1:10:35] adopted. Um

[1:10:38] so, this deals with contracting and

[1:10:40] purchasing for the city. And it states

[1:10:44] that a city official who has a financial

[1:10:45] interest in any bid or proposal for a

[1:10:47] city contract shall disclose that

[1:10:49] interest by filing a written notice uh

[1:10:52] of that interest with the purchasing

[1:10:55] officer. And that has to be done not

[1:10:57] less than 10 business days before

[1:10:59] submission of the bid or proposal in

[1:11:01] which the official has an interest. This

[1:11:03] is a hard one to comply with because you

[1:11:06] don't necessarily know. You have to be

[1:11:09] watching and it has to be triggered. And

[1:11:11] I think this is something that I know

[1:11:12] the administration is working on to

[1:11:14] ensure that you get that trigger if they

[1:11:17] know right. So because when you look at

[1:11:21] it so it's basically it's going to be

[1:11:23] appointees and council and the city

[1:11:27] clerk and the city attorney. I mean it

[1:11:29] will impact us but uh um so basically 10

[1:11:34] days before submission of the bidder

[1:11:37] proposal in which the official has an

[1:11:40] interest. So that

[1:11:42] you may have an interest in a bid or

[1:11:44] proposal and not know when it's getting

[1:11:46] submitted. Does that make sense? So this

[1:11:48] is one that it really takes everyone's

[1:11:51] involvement to help uh ensure that

[1:11:54] there's compliance I think in some

[1:11:56] cases. In some cases, it'll be very

[1:11:58] obvious if you know if you have a family

[1:12:01] member living in your household who is

[1:12:04] submitting a bid. You're going to know

[1:12:06] they're submitting a bid, right? If

[1:12:08] they're going in and submitting, but

[1:12:09] you're not going to necessarily know

[1:12:11] that if it's um you know, if maybe one

[1:12:13] of your kids runs a business and you

[1:12:16] know, or they or they're a subcontractor

[1:12:19] and they're pulled in on the uh on the

[1:12:22] bid. So, there's a lot of circumstances

[1:12:24] here. So, just be aware that it's there.

[1:12:27] And then, um, you know, that's one that

[1:12:30] the administration can work with the

[1:12:33] council members on. The other piece of

[1:12:35] this is

[1:12:37] if if you determine that there has been

[1:12:41] a misstep, just tell the clerk as soon

[1:12:44] as possible because then we can

[1:12:46] retroactively address it. Sorry. And um,

[1:12:49] and bring that before counsel in a way

[1:12:51] that sort of ratifies it if it's not

[1:12:54] um if it's not intentional because I do

[1:12:56] again I think this one's a little

[1:12:58] difficult um but importance it's

[1:13:01] probably so let's see all right the

[1:13:03] other thing to note here

[1:13:06] um

[1:13:08] so the purchasing officer posts the

[1:13:10] written notice at the place maintained

[1:13:12] for the posting of public not uh public

[1:13:15] notices at city hall so that's just

[1:13:17] another thing to note so when you see it

[1:13:18] up there you're not surprised um no city

[1:13:22] official has a financial interest in any

[1:13:24] bid or proposal for a city contract may

[1:13:26] participate in the city's decision to

[1:13:28] award the contract. Um

[1:13:33] um that's I think we are all comfortable

[1:13:36] and know that uh no city official may

[1:13:38] solicit or receive any form of

[1:13:40] compensation from any party other than

[1:13:42] the city in connection with the awarding

[1:13:44] of a city contract.

[1:13:46] Uh that one is um you know sort of

[1:13:49] common sense but I think one of the

[1:13:51] other things here is this provision

[1:13:53] remains it we it hasn't been changed to

[1:13:56] add more restrictive

[1:13:59] um consequences. This came from your

[1:14:01] code and it is worth noting that it says

[1:14:06] uh anyone who violates this is guilty of

[1:14:08] a a misconduct in office and a violation

[1:14:10] of the oath of office. A contract

[1:14:12] entered into in violation of the section

[1:14:14] is voidable by council.

[1:14:16] So, um, you know, it's pretty

[1:14:20] the it's very clear that the Wasilla

[1:14:23] City Council wants arms length

[1:14:25] transactions, especially when it comes

[1:14:27] to procurement and has adopted codes to

[1:14:30] make that happen. And um, and again, I

[1:14:33] think that

[1:14:35] council does a great job of complying

[1:14:37] with these things. So, this is training,

[1:14:39] not warning, you know. [laughter]

[1:14:41] Uh, does anybody have any questions

[1:14:45] so far? No. Okay, moving on. Uh, just a

[1:14:49] reminder, this does not apply to city

[1:14:51] employees. I do worry because we start

[1:14:53] talking about city officials. City

[1:14:55] officials often do encompass employees

[1:14:57] and other arenas. So, a lot of times

[1:15:00] we'll try to impute these provisions and

[1:15:04] private acts on employees. So we just

[1:15:06] always want to make keep that separation

[1:15:08] in mind. That says uh that said the um

[1:15:13] title 3 does encompass a lot of these uh

[1:15:17] into the personnel policies the list of

[1:15:20] prohibited acts for example an employee

[1:15:22] who has a financial interest as defined

[1:15:24] in the ethics code whether it's direct

[1:15:26] or indirect in the sale of any lands

[1:15:29] materials supplies or services um is um

[1:15:34] does have a requirement to tell the

[1:15:36] mayor and disclose that interest to the

[1:15:38] mayor And generally what needs to happen

[1:15:40] is that an employee is um screened off

[1:15:44] or not permitted to make any official

[1:15:47] take any official action on those on

[1:15:49] that matter. So it's a very similar

[1:15:51] process. It's just done under an

[1:15:52] employment process. Um all right. So how

[1:15:55] do you stay out of trouble?

[1:15:57] Right? Because this is a lot of rules.

[1:15:59] Right? Uh you talk to your city clerk.

[1:16:02] Uh as you all know I don't have to tell

[1:16:04] you this. was an incredibly competent,

[1:16:08] knowledgeable, experienced city clerk

[1:16:10] and deputy city clerk as well. So, you

[1:16:13] have this this is a great resource and

[1:16:16] just have the talk. Um, one of the

[1:16:19] things I get that really scares me if

[1:16:21] people are afraid of these laws, that is

[1:16:24] when they are most likely to run a foul

[1:16:27] of them and those ethics complaints

[1:16:30] start start coming in. If we're um

[1:16:34] willing to make mistakes and disclose

[1:16:37] them then we can navigate these things

[1:16:39] usually. Um

[1:16:41] it's a lot easier. Um also attend Oh no

[1:16:45] I don't want to leave there. Okay.

[1:16:46] Attend regularly scheduled ethics

[1:16:48] trainings and making sure we have them

[1:16:50] even if we do them this way and we just

[1:16:51] kind of get it all out there and maybe

[1:16:54] we you know in a couple months we have

[1:16:56] another one so it's just you know stays

[1:16:59] rough on our minds. Um, and then, um,

[1:17:02] it's important to know, and I know the

[1:17:04] council members are aware of this, but,

[1:17:07] uh, use the advisory opinion component

[1:17:09] because you can ask and you'll get an

[1:17:12] opinion and we do try to turn them

[1:17:13] around fairly quickly and that will it's

[1:17:18] binding, you know, on the city and they

[1:17:20] and it's and it protects the council

[1:17:22] members from ethics complaints. Um, so

[1:17:25] that's a really powerful tool.

[1:17:29] And then I get to just Disclose,

[1:17:31] disclose, disclose if there's a problem.

[1:17:33] And that is

[1:17:35] sort of your

[1:17:38] ethics training on the code of ethics.

[1:17:40] Are there any questions?

[1:17:44] Any concerns?

[1:17:49] » All right. Thank you, Holly.

[1:17:52] >> We are now at communications. Madame

[1:17:54] » We are now at communications. Madame

[1:17:54] Clerk, please read the items by title.

[1:17:57] >> Thank you. Thank you, Madam Deputy

[1:17:59] » Thank you. Thank you, Madam Deputy

[1:17:59] Mayor. Item number 2518, the Lake

[1:18:01] Lucille Park [clears throat] playground

[1:18:03] removal. I am number 2519, monthly

[1:18:05] financial reports for the period ending

[1:18:08] July 31st, 2025. I am number 2520,

[1:18:12] monthly financial reports for the period

[1:18:14] ending August 31st, 2025. I am number

[1:18:17] 2521, which is the city of Wasilla's

[1:18:20] 2026 holiday schedule. And lastly, item

[1:18:23] number 2522, the McGrath job

[1:18:25] classification study report with two

[1:18:27] sets of commission meeting minutes

[1:18:29] planning commission September 9 and

[1:18:31] October 14, 2025.

[1:18:36] We are now at audience comments, which

[1:18:38] is a time for members of the public to

[1:18:40] share their views with the council. This

[1:18:42] is not a question and answer period or a

[1:18:44] time for dialogue. Speakers may be

[1:18:46] referred to administrations or issues

[1:18:48] raised may be taken under advisement for

[1:18:50] council or administration.

[1:18:57] No takers. We are now at mayor clerk

[1:19:01] attorney and council comments. Madame

[1:19:03] clerk. Thank you. I do council if we

[1:19:05] could pick a couple dates. I had sent

[1:19:08] out an email. Um, our finance department

[1:19:11] through the mayor is looking for two

[1:19:13] 4-hour sessions in January to kick off

[1:19:16] our budget season. I thought maybe

[1:19:19] weekdays from 10 to 2, but I don't know.

[1:19:21] I just want council. I don't know what

[1:19:23] your schedules are. Um, so I'll turn it

[1:19:27] over to whoever. Councilman Graham.

[1:19:30] >> Thank you. Uh

[1:19:33] » Thank you. Uh

[1:19:33] I don't think the 4hour sessions

[1:19:37] uh give council adequate time to

[1:19:40] prepare. The administration has a habit

[1:19:42] of giving us a ton of information at the

[1:19:45] last minute which is essentially forcing

[1:19:48] us to make decisions on things where we

[1:19:50] haven't had adequate time uh to study

[1:19:52] and prepare. So I would go back I would

[1:19:55] recommend that we go back to the mayor

[1:19:57] and say break this up into two-hour

[1:19:58] sessions. Make sure that you provide us

[1:20:01] uh information, you know, a minimum, I

[1:20:05] mean, complete information, none of this

[1:20:06] last minute laid on the table kind of

[1:20:08] stuff. Give us complete information for

[1:20:10] the meeting so we have time to study and

[1:20:12] be able to ask reasonable questions and

[1:20:15] make informed decisions regarding the

[1:20:18] budget of the city. So, I uh I don't

[1:20:22] agree with the idea of 4-hour meetings

[1:20:24] and therefore I don't suggest any dates

[1:20:26] for those.

[1:20:29] Councilman Craftton.

[1:20:30] >> Thank you. Uh

[1:20:32] » Thank you. Uh

[1:20:32] I'm kind of in line with m what Mr.

[1:20:34] Graham was saying. Uh my concern is just

[1:20:36] four hours is a long time in the middle

[1:20:38] of the day. Uh I I understand that these

[1:20:41] meetings are not generally attended by

[1:20:44] the uh by the public, but I still think

[1:20:47] the opportunity for them to attend is

[1:20:48] better done in the evening time. That's

[1:20:51] when we usually do the meetings. And uh

[1:20:53] I mean we could do a Saturday, but we've

[1:20:55] done a 5 hour Saturday meeting and it's

[1:20:57] I mean that's just grueling to do. It's

[1:20:59] too long of a day. Uh my thought would

[1:21:02] be uh I liked the 3 hours. Uh I think 3

[1:21:05] hours was long enough that we could get

[1:21:07] through enough uh information but not so

[1:21:10] long that uh it it was burdensome on us.

[1:21:14] I think about about that 2 and 1 half

[1:21:15] hour three hour mark we're all tired

[1:21:17] anyways. So I I mean I would think if we

[1:21:19] did two three hours and then if we

[1:21:21] needed the additional two hours on a

[1:21:22] third day we could because the mayor

[1:21:24] asked for eight hours. Uh that would be

[1:21:27] something I'd a little bit be a be a

[1:21:29] little bit more okay with um in that

[1:21:31] sense. But I do like what Mr. Graham

[1:21:32] said about making sure we're getting

[1:21:34] that information early enough because

[1:21:36] again uh it's a lot to digest and uh

[1:21:39] usually those are the types of things

[1:21:40] I'm reading two if not three times

[1:21:42] before meeting. So making sure we're

[1:21:44] getting it ahead of time and not four

[1:21:46] o'clock before meeting would be great

[1:21:49] >> through the chair to the through the

[1:21:50] » through the chair to the through the

[1:21:50] chair to the council. Then would the

[1:21:53] group be immunable to three three-hour

[1:21:56] evening meetings maybe on Mondays and

[1:21:58] then we'll use our same packet deadline?

[1:22:00] We'll ensure that you have your packets

[1:22:02] 5 days ahead of time which is our

[1:22:04] standard.

[1:22:05] >> I I would think that's a good idea.

[1:22:07] » I I would think that's a good idea.

[1:22:07] Thank you.

[1:22:11] » Okay. Are there any dates that don't

[1:22:12] work for anybody? They're completely off

[1:22:16] the table.

[1:22:17] >> I would prefer not Thursday nights.

[1:22:19] » I would prefer not Thursday nights.

[1:22:20] >> Okay.

[1:22:22] » Okay.

[1:22:22] >> I like the idea of Mondays, even though

[1:22:24] » I like the idea of Mondays, even though

[1:22:24] we would be scheduling Monday after

[1:22:26] Monday after Monday, but I mean, we're

[1:22:28] kind of used to being here on Mondays

[1:22:29] and the folks that attend the meetings

[1:22:32] are used to being here on Mondays. I

[1:22:34] think it fits into everybody's schedule

[1:22:36] reasonably well.

[1:22:38] So through the through the chair. So

[1:22:40] that le So we have two Monday council

[1:22:42] meetings in January, the 12th and the

[1:22:44] 26th. I'm not sure through the

[1:22:47] administration we could make a January

[1:22:49] 5th meeting. So that actually only

[1:22:52] leaves us one meeting in January on the

[1:22:54] 19th.

[1:22:58] » I I would almost prefer these to be

[1:23:00] backtoback. And I know that sometimes is

[1:23:02] a lot, but again, it's sometimes this

[1:23:05] information is easily digestible

[1:23:08] uh when they're back to back like that,

[1:23:11] but also also at the same time it goes

[1:23:13] back to what happens at one meeting. You

[1:23:15] got to a day is not always enough to

[1:23:17] think about it. So it' almost be good to

[1:23:18] have two meetings back to back and then

[1:23:20] the third final one on a different day.

[1:23:23] Would the how does the 19th and the

[1:23:26] 20th? So that's um Monday and Tuesday

[1:23:29] and then maybe the 28th Wednesday the

[1:23:32] 28th.

[1:23:38] » I would prefer not to do backtoback just

[1:23:40] because of the homework time that's

[1:23:42] involved there. I have no objections to

[1:23:44] two meetings in a week, but spread them

[1:23:46] out. And since it is, you know, uh

[1:23:50] setting the budget is the primary

[1:23:52] responsible responsibility that the

[1:23:54] council has during the year, I wouldn't

[1:23:56] object to even doing a Friday meeting or

[1:23:58] a Saturday meeting to uh you know to

[1:24:01] make that work. But I think when you put

[1:24:04] two meetings back to back and you don't

[1:24:06] have that time in between to study and

[1:24:08] reflect on what happened on Monday

[1:24:10] before you're making decisions on

[1:24:12] Tuesday, I I I don't know. I I just

[1:24:15] don't think it sets us up for the most

[1:24:18] effective decision making.

[1:24:19] >> What What if we did a Monday, Wednesday,

[1:24:21] » What What if we did a Monday, Wednesday,

[1:24:21] Friday then?

[1:24:24] >> Or we How about if we did the 19th,

[1:24:26] » Or we How about if we did the 19th,

[1:24:26] which is a Monday, Wednesday the 21st,

[1:24:29] and Wednesday the 28th?

[1:24:35] No objection.

[1:24:36] >> I think that's okay.

[1:24:38] » I think that's okay.

[1:24:38] >> Mr. Johnson, does that work for you?

[1:24:43] » Okay, I believe that's going to work.

[1:24:45] I'm going to work with the

[1:24:46] administration to make that happen and

[1:24:48] we will for sure have that packet to you

[1:24:49] 5 days ahead of time, which is our

[1:24:51] standard rule.

[1:24:52] >> Real quick here, sorry you're looking at

[1:24:53] » Real quick here, sorry you're looking at

[1:24:53] the calendar. Monday the 19th is Martin

[1:24:55] Luther King Day. Does that affect us at

[1:24:57] all?

[1:24:57] >> Does not. Okay. It's not a city

[1:24:59] » Does not. Okay. It's not a city

[1:24:59] recognized holiday, but thank you for

[1:25:00] that. And then um so okay, so we're

[1:25:04] going to go with the 19th, the 21st, and

[1:25:05] the 28th. We'll start there. Um your

[1:25:08] travel packets to AML were passed out.

[1:25:11] Join us this Friday. Employee holiday

[1:25:13] lunchon 11:30 to 2. We'd love to see you

[1:25:16] there. And then next regular meeting

[1:25:18] after tonight is December 15th. And

[1:25:20] that's all I have. Happy Thanksgiving to

[1:25:22] everybody.

[1:25:25] >> Thank you, Madana Attorney.

[1:25:28] » Thank you, Madana Attorney.

[1:25:28] No comment.

[1:25:30] >> Council member Graham.

[1:25:33] » Council member Graham.

[1:25:33] >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. First,

[1:25:35] » Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. First,

[1:25:35] thanks everybody for being here. I know

[1:25:36] some of you are regulars and some of you

[1:25:38] are not, but it's always great to have

[1:25:39] people here and and to get input, even

[1:25:41] if that input just includes scowls from

[1:25:44] the from the gallery. So, that's it's

[1:25:46] always good to get that. uh said a

[1:25:49] couple things

[1:25:51] uh

[1:25:55] to talk about. You know, number one, I

[1:25:57] just have a question. The city was a

[1:25:59] holiday schedule. I mean, the our

[1:26:02] contracts with the union say that we'll

[1:26:04] observe these holidays, but does it say

[1:26:07] on what dates we will do that? uh you

[1:26:11] know because you know some of the dates

[1:26:13] on the holiday schedule you know the

[1:26:14] holidays on a Saturday so we're going to

[1:26:16] observe it on a Monday or or so on does

[1:26:19] do our contracts

[1:26:21] specify that if the if the published

[1:26:25] holiday you know falls on a certain date

[1:26:27] that it would happen on a Monday or

[1:26:29] happen on a Friday or or the reason I'm

[1:26:32] asking is purely informational because

[1:26:34] for future contracts you know I mean if

[1:26:36] July the 4th is on a Saturday uh Why not

[1:26:39] give the employees a floating holiday to

[1:26:42] cover the July 4th because they're not

[1:26:44] going to be here on the holiday day

[1:26:45] anyway? I mean, it's just an added

[1:26:48] flexibility for employees. Do you do we

[1:26:50] know the answer of whether that's

[1:26:53] >> something like that might be permissible

[1:26:55] » something like that might be permissible

[1:26:56] through negotiation or

[1:26:58] >> through the chair to council member

[1:26:59] » through the chair to council member

[1:26:59] Graham? I don't I mean I think

[1:27:00] anything's open for negotiation. It's my

[1:27:02] understanding is that the union

[1:27:05] contracts in terms of our standard

[1:27:07] holidays follow the code. So if the

[1:27:09] holiday is on a Saturday, we have we're

[1:27:11] closed on Friday. If it's on sun if it's

[1:27:13] on a Sunday, we're closed on Monday.

[1:27:16] >> Okay. So you believe that is the code?

[1:27:18] » Okay. So you believe that is the code?

[1:27:18] >> I understand.

[1:27:19] » I understand.

[1:27:19] >> Okay. Thank you. That's very

[1:27:20] » Okay. Thank you. That's very

[1:27:20] informative.

[1:27:21] >> I guess if that is untrue, we I'll send

[1:27:23] » I guess if that is untrue, we I'll send

[1:27:23] an email.

[1:27:23] >> Oh, no. I'm I'm I'm trying to find out

[1:27:25] » Oh, no. I'm I'm I'm trying to find out

[1:27:25] here. No one knows the code like the

[1:27:27] clerk. That's for sure. So, uh, the

[1:27:30] other thing I I need to come back to is

[1:27:34] IM218,

[1:27:36] uh, which is Lake Lucille Park

[1:27:39] playground removal.

[1:27:41] You read through this IM,

[1:27:43] uh, and if you look at the whole thing,

[1:27:45] you can see that an inspection was

[1:27:48] completed on or prior to the 1st of

[1:27:51] September. Okay. Uh the uh removal of

[1:27:56] the equipment from the park happened on

[1:27:58] October 22nd and here we are a month

[1:28:01] later informing the city council that

[1:28:04] city assets have been uh destroyed or

[1:28:07] disposed of. Uh I find that completely

[1:28:11] unacceptable.

[1:28:12] Completely unacceptable. If the if the

[1:28:15] inspection comes forward and says, "Hey,

[1:28:17] we got a problem here." uh you know, and

[1:28:20] we're going to have to remove or destroy

[1:28:22] some city equipment, then come to the

[1:28:24] council and say, "Hey, we need to do

[1:28:25] this." Don't send us an IM a couple

[1:28:27] months later saying, "Oh, by the way, uh

[1:28:30] we decided to, you know, destroy a

[1:28:32] parking lot that that we built or in

[1:28:34] this case, uh, you know, take out some

[1:28:37] playground equipment that appears to

[1:28:40] have been, you know, not have been

[1:28:43] inspected very well over time. So, I'm

[1:28:45] assuming that we've fixed the problem of

[1:28:47] in, you know, inspection and we're

[1:28:48] talking about a parks plan and things

[1:28:50] like that. But, you know, city council

[1:28:52] needs to be advised when city property

[1:28:55] is going to be intentionally disposed of

[1:28:57] or destroyed. Uh there's no uh there's

[1:29:00] no fault in saying, "Hey, we got a

[1:29:02] problem here. We need to fix it." Uh and

[1:29:04] that temporary fix that we're proposing

[1:29:06] is to remove it. But to do it without

[1:29:09] advising the city council, which

[1:29:11] essentially means you haven't advised

[1:29:12] the public, I I think is completely

[1:29:14] inappropriate. And I've been by the uh

[1:29:17] Lake Lucille uh park where the

[1:29:20] playground was removed. There's no sign

[1:29:22] there that says, "Hey, we removed this

[1:29:23] stuff because it was unsafe." There's

[1:29:25] still signs there that say, "Hey, you

[1:29:27] know, playing here is you do at your own

[1:29:29] risk and there may be hazards and things

[1:29:30] like that, but there's no equipment to

[1:29:32] play on." So I I I just am very

[1:29:36] uncomfortable with the way that this uh

[1:29:38] uh happened and I hope in the future

[1:29:40] that that we will uh make sure that the

[1:29:44] city council is advised when we're going

[1:29:46] to uh you know either uh you know have

[1:29:50] some sort of non-rine destruction or

[1:29:52] propose or destruction or disposal of

[1:29:55] city property. Um see uh the and the

[1:30:00] last uh thing I I have city business

[1:30:04] here comes back to the agenda and I'm

[1:30:07] going to look at the attorney when I say

[1:30:09] this. I mean the agenda was set you know

[1:30:12] uh almost two weeks ago. Okay. Uh and

[1:30:16] then the agenda was given to the city

[1:30:19] council on Wednesday which is 5 days

[1:30:21] ago. And today we get your 15page

[1:30:25] PowerPoint. Uh,

[1:30:28] I'm sorry that I I don't find that as as

[1:30:31] being good business practice. Give me

[1:30:33] that PowerPoint 5 days out so I can look

[1:30:35] through it. I can study it and I can

[1:30:37] come up with questions. I mean, I truly

[1:30:39] appreciate the fact that you're reading

[1:30:41] a PowerPoint to me that I can read all

[1:30:42] by myself. But, uh, for those that

[1:30:46] didn't have the opportunity, you know,

[1:30:48] and I've been on council for a long

[1:30:49] time, so you're not telling me anything

[1:30:51] new, but there are questions there. And

[1:30:55] for people that, you know, uh, you know,

[1:30:58] have questions, they should be able to

[1:31:00] be prepared to ask those questions

[1:31:02] because they've looked at it, uh, prior

[1:31:05] to the meeting, you know, not just show

[1:31:08] up and sitting on my desk there's a

[1:31:09] 15page, you know, word intensive

[1:31:13] PowerPoint. Uh, you know, I I I just

[1:31:15] don't think that was, you know, I

[1:31:17] appreciate the training. It's required

[1:31:19] by the code, but I I think there's a

[1:31:21] better way to do that. That's just a

[1:31:23] >> personal opinion there

[1:31:25] » personal opinion there

[1:31:25] >> through the chair to council member

[1:31:26] » through the chair to council member

[1:31:26] Graham. I continue to hear hear what I

[1:31:30] will do is information and it's not the

[1:31:32] city attorney a lot of times director we

[1:31:35] we get powerpoints because there is no

[1:31:38] action to be taken we do get them later

[1:31:40] if I don't have a powerpoint when the

[1:31:42] packet closes I will just work to

[1:31:44] reschedu that then

[1:31:46] >> I I think that would be most helpful

[1:31:49] » I I think that would be most helpful

[1:31:49] because it allows the council to study

[1:31:52] whatever it is that's coming up and have

[1:31:54] reasonable questions

[1:31:55] >> I'm going to [clears throat] say

[1:31:56] » I'm going to [clears throat] say

[1:31:56] something and I'm really sorry if this

[1:31:58] impacts the way that you see my

[1:31:59] performance. When I prepare a

[1:32:01] PowerPoint, I do it to prepare myself

[1:32:03] for the presentation. I provide you the

[1:32:05] PowerPoint because I think it's a great

[1:32:07] resource. I don't provide it as

[1:32:09] something to study before the the

[1:32:11] presentation. We are very busy and

[1:32:14] predominantly with projects all very

[1:32:17] important. When I do a 30 minute

[1:32:18] training, the likelihood of me preparing

[1:32:21] that over a week ahead of time and

[1:32:23] creating a PowerPoint for your

[1:32:26] digestion, I just I I will try to do

[1:32:28] that, but I that's just not how I

[1:32:32] do a presentation as opposed to say a

[1:32:35] PowerPoint like some of the title 16

[1:32:38] PowerPoints. Sometimes those PowerPoints

[1:32:40] are designed to be coordinated with with

[1:32:43] like documents. So, we'll have handouts

[1:32:46] and attachments and worksheets and a

[1:32:49] PowerPoint that's that goes with a

[1:32:51] manual when we do like a 4hour session.

[1:32:54] Those usually I will absolutely make

[1:32:56] sure those those can be in the packet.

[1:32:59] And it is but I just I hear the clerk

[1:33:01] saying she'll reschedule if there's not

[1:33:03] a PowerPoint in your packet.

[1:33:05] I just I'm I'm telling you the reason

[1:33:07] why I prepared that PowerPoint was to

[1:33:10] help me talk to you today and I give you

[1:33:12] a copy of that PowerPoint so you could

[1:33:14] basically get a copy of my notes. It's

[1:33:16] not so that you can be prepared by

[1:33:19] reading the PowerPoint ahead of time.

[1:33:22] >> Well, if if I may suggest, Madam

[1:33:24] » Well, if if I may suggest, Madam

[1:33:24] Attorney, if that's the point, just send

[1:33:26] us a cassette tape with the training on

[1:33:28] it. And you know, I mean, the whole idea

[1:33:30] is for us to be able to look at that and

[1:33:32] say, you know, why,

[1:33:35] you know, why is this thing in there

[1:33:36] about tips? Why is this why is it

[1:33:38] $1,000? Why is, you know, is for us to

[1:33:42] learn from it. Uh, you know, this is,

[1:33:45] you know, not not to just uh have you

[1:33:49] give us information, but to have you

[1:33:51] give us information that will stick with

[1:33:52] us and make us better public officials.

[1:33:54] So you don't take it as a personal

[1:33:57] comment but as a but as an instructor

[1:33:59] you know someone who has uh you know

[1:34:02] considerable and and con experience in

[1:34:05] instruction can tell you uh you know if

[1:34:07] if you're just going to stand in front

[1:34:09] of somebody and talk you know 80% of

[1:34:11] what you tell them is gone by the time

[1:34:13] your presentation is done. Whereas if

[1:34:14] they're prepared you know which is why

[1:34:16] teachers give homework you know read

[1:34:18] chapter one and then we're going to talk

[1:34:19] about chapter one tomorrow. Uh that's

[1:34:22] you know that's the whole idea is is to

[1:34:24] better prepare and have better retention

[1:34:27] but that's my personal thing which has

[1:34:29] doesn't reflect the view of the council.

[1:34:31] Let me make sure make that clear so I

[1:34:32] don't have an ethics violation here. So

[1:34:34] but [laughter] but but anyway I would

[1:34:38] find that very handy. You're going to do

[1:34:40] the PowerPoint anyway.

[1:34:42] >> Maybe I think for now on I might not do

[1:34:44] » Maybe I think for now on I might not do

[1:34:44] them because I I mean I'm torn on

[1:34:45] powerpoints. It sounds like I believe

[1:34:48] that powerpoints detract attention from

[1:34:50] the words that you're saying a lot of

[1:34:52] times and people get focused on right.

[1:34:54] So that's the pro and con. So it might

[1:34:56] be that you a better a well-prepared

[1:34:59] powerpoint that isn't just a lot of

[1:35:02] words and you know pointing to the code

[1:35:06] would meet what you're asking for

[1:35:07] council member Graham better and that

[1:35:09] would be something to be prepared and

[1:35:11] submitted in the packet as a real tool

[1:35:13] for council. And when we're doing

[1:35:15] trainings like this one, I think maybe a

[1:35:18] worksheet where we're interactive and

[1:35:20] we're working through some of the

[1:35:21] provisions might fit better as opposed

[1:35:23] to a PowerPoint that we lay down on the

[1:35:26] table. So, I'll I'll talk to clerk and

[1:35:29] we'll figure out how to

[1:35:31] >> and that'd be great. My my biggest

[1:35:33] » and that'd be great. My my biggest

[1:35:33] concern is that we actually get training

[1:35:36] out of it instead of just, you know,

[1:35:38] saying, "Yeah, we checked that box." So,

[1:35:40] thank you. Uh

[1:35:44] um I think that's it for tonight. Madame

[1:35:46] Deputy Mayor, thank you.

[1:35:48] >> Council member Craftton.

[1:35:51] » Council member Craftton.

[1:35:51] >> Thank you, Dep Madame Deputy Mayor. Um

[1:35:54] » Thank you, Dep Madame Deputy Mayor. Um

[1:35:54] Stu took a couple things, but I did want

[1:35:56] to mention them as well. Uh the the

[1:35:59] first was the park um situation. I agree

[1:36:02] wholeheartedly about the fact that we

[1:36:04] just learned about this this last week

[1:36:06] when we got this agenda. Um, I mean I I

[1:36:10] would have a question for the clerk or

[1:36:11] the attorney. I mean, is this something

[1:36:13] that we could I mean we can't write the

[1:36:15] policy, but do we need to codify what

[1:36:18] has to be communicated to the council

[1:36:20] basically as soon as possible? I mean,

[1:36:24] this is something that could have ended

[1:36:25] up in an email saying, "Hey, this is

[1:36:28] what we're doing. Heads up." I mean,

[1:36:30] look across the street. That ended up in

[1:36:33] an email after the fact again. But

[1:36:35] still, it I've talked with the mayor or

[1:36:38] not mayor, excuse me, the clerk about

[1:36:40] this and I always say too, like I don't

[1:36:42] want to codify something that might end

[1:36:45] up binding a future mayor because every

[1:36:47] mayor is a little different. They have

[1:36:49] strengths and weaknesses and the current

[1:36:52] administration, I should say more so,

[1:36:54] just seems to not communicate some of

[1:36:56] these things to us. And so I don't want

[1:36:58] to feel like the next mayor has to do

[1:37:01] certain things if they're okay with

[1:37:02] doing or they have a certain style or I

[1:37:04] mean things that happen with uh with our

[1:37:06] police department too. Same thing. Uh I

[1:37:09] feel like there are certain times that

[1:37:10] the council should be communicated with

[1:37:12] uh about what's happening city

[1:37:14] business-wise. So we're not learning

[1:37:16] about it on Facebook. And whenever a

[1:37:18] constituent calls us up and says, "Hey,

[1:37:20] I have questions about this." And we

[1:37:22] have to go, "I have no idea what you're

[1:37:24] talking about." I mean, it's our job to

[1:37:26] be informed and be the ones

[1:37:27] communicating it to them, not the other

[1:37:29] way around generally. [clears throat]

[1:37:31] Don't get me wrong, I love hearing that

[1:37:32] because again, that's how I also stay

[1:37:34] informed. You can't keep up with

[1:37:35] everything. So, I know it's kind of a

[1:37:37] open-ended question and it isn't

[1:37:39] necessarily something that needs to be

[1:37:40] answered right now, but maybe a future

[1:37:42] conversation that we might have to have

[1:37:44] uh around communication with council

[1:37:46] because again uh I can't remember the

[1:37:48] dates, but the fact that again it was a

[1:37:50] month ago that it was taken out and this

[1:37:52] is we just heard about it this past

[1:37:54] week. Um

[1:37:57] Mr. Graham also brought a point about

[1:37:59] the the powerpoints. Um Holly, I'm just

[1:38:01] going to pick on you with it because

[1:38:03] you're the one that did it tonight. Um,

[1:38:05] I'll be honest, when when I get people

[1:38:07] that start reading from a PowerPoint,

[1:38:09] I'm gone. Like I'm I'm not I I just

[1:38:12] again, it's the fact that I can read it

[1:38:14] and so I feel like I'm being read to and

[1:38:17] I'm I'm I'm pulling up the code. I'm

[1:38:19] looking at it. I I I do like the

[1:38:21] PowerPoints because I think it gives us

[1:38:23] something to follow along with. I think

[1:38:25] it gives the public something to follow

[1:38:26] along with because I can guarantee you

[1:38:28] 80% of the people that show up here

[1:38:30] aren't pulling the agenda and reading it

[1:38:31] and going through every line in detail

[1:38:33] like we are as as as a council. Uh so I

[1:38:36] think it does it is helpful. I think

[1:38:39] again condensing it. I actually just a

[1:38:41] moment ago there was a book I read a

[1:38:42] while back that that was the whole

[1:38:44] concept was learning not to read from

[1:38:46] powerpoints and how to utilize

[1:38:47] powerpoints as as a way to uh convey

[1:38:50] your ideas without having to read from

[1:38:52] them. So, can't remember what the book

[1:38:54] was, but again, I would like them, but I

[1:38:56] agree with Mr. Graham. I'd like to see

[1:38:57] them sooner so that again, I can take a

[1:39:00] moment, digest it, and be ready to

[1:39:02] actually discuss it and have questions.

[1:39:04] Uh, instead of feeling like I'm

[1:39:05] constantly on the back foot, uh, and

[1:39:08] then there was questions I had in here.

[1:39:10] And again, because we had moved on and

[1:39:13] felt like I was being read to, I just

[1:39:15] went back there and was looking at back

[1:39:16] and forth. I ended up answering my own

[1:39:17] question. Uh, but still, I felt like I

[1:39:19] could have been prepared to ask those

[1:39:21] questions ahead of time. Um, so yeah.

[1:39:23] And then last thing, uh, Mr. Sterns

[1:39:25] actually came up to me before the

[1:39:26] meeting and brought this up. Uh, this

[1:39:28] Saturday is Small Business Saturday, and

[1:39:30] I was curious. I'm not sure who this

[1:39:32] would go to, unfortunately, the mayor

[1:39:33] and Crystal Nygard's not here, but I

[1:39:35] feel like it would be a good question. I

[1:39:37] believe the chamber does something for

[1:39:40] small business Saturday where they

[1:39:41] announce, hey, these are all our small

[1:39:43] businesses. These are our retail ones.

[1:39:45] Do we convey any information to them? Do

[1:39:48] we assist them in any capacity to try

[1:39:51] and say, "Hey, you know, these are some

[1:39:53] small businesses in our our city here. I

[1:39:55] understand that there's a fine balance

[1:39:57] because we can't seem like we're

[1:39:59] promoting certain businesses over other

[1:40:01] ones." Um, but do we have any type of

[1:40:04] joint effort with them on how we can

[1:40:08] work to promote small businesses at all

[1:40:11] or can we?

[1:40:13] Mr. Graham seems like you might want to

[1:40:15] answer it, but go ahead Jamie if you

[1:40:16] want to.

[1:40:17] I was I was just going to say Mr. what

[1:40:20] much more suited to answer this but

[1:40:22] because chamber is a a private organ a

[1:40:24] membership based organization I imagine

[1:40:26] their role is to promote

[1:40:28] >> members of chamber but I don't know

[1:40:32] » members of chamber but I don't know

[1:40:32] >> the clerk is correct it is the role of

[1:40:34] » the clerk is correct it is the role of

[1:40:34] the chamber to to promote the community

[1:40:36] in general and businesses in particular

[1:40:39] and for the past couple of years the

[1:40:42] chamber has not

[1:40:45] really actively promoted small business

[1:40:47] Saturday in Palmer they do the chamber

[1:40:50] takes a different role there and tries

[1:40:52] to bring people into Palmer to uh to

[1:40:55] spend money, you know, which collects

[1:40:56] sales tax of course, but uh the Wasilla

[1:40:59] Chamber hasn't done that in the past.

[1:41:01] Our our or hasn't done it in the last

[1:41:03] couple of years. Our role, the city's

[1:41:06] role in the last couple years has been

[1:41:08] to uh sponsor activities that the

[1:41:11] chamber does, but since they have no

[1:41:14] activity that I'm aware of for Small

[1:41:17] Business Saturday, and there was no

[1:41:18] opportunity for sponsorship or

[1:41:20] promotion, the city did not fund

[1:41:23] anything to that. Does that help, Mr. C?

[1:41:25] >> It it helps. So, I guess my question

[1:41:27] » It it helps. So, I guess my question

[1:41:27] would be because I understand that maybe

[1:41:29] a business doesn't want to be fully

[1:41:32] publicized. So, I mean, is it a question

[1:41:34] we could ask them of saying, "Hey, when

[1:41:35] Small Business Saturday comes up, we

[1:41:37] just want to publish a list that says

[1:41:39] these are the small businesses inside

[1:41:40] the city of Wasilla. We're not endorsing

[1:41:42] them. We're not sponsoring them. We're

[1:41:44] just telling you these are the retail

[1:41:45] businesses. If you want to go shop,

[1:41:47] they're great." Because I mean, you'd be

[1:41:49] surprised at how many small businesses

[1:41:50] people don't know about because unless

[1:41:52] you drive by them, you don't know a lot

[1:41:55] of times or you're not in that little

[1:41:56] niche. Is Is that a possibility that

[1:42:00] we're allowed to do?

[1:42:02] And if there's no answer right now, then

[1:42:04] that's fine. I mean, just food for

[1:42:06] thought. I can get the answer later. I

[1:42:09] see a lot of questioning face, confused

[1:42:10] faces, so I'll go with that. So, other

[1:42:12] than that, uh, happy Thanksgiving,

[1:42:14] everybody. It was a very good meeting.

[1:42:15] Thank you all for staying here. I know

[1:42:17] we're all here talking a lot tonight,

[1:42:19] but I appreciate you all for appreciate

[1:42:20] you all for staying and have a safe

[1:42:22] Thanksgiving. And we'll see you guys

[1:42:24] we'll see the council at AML uh for the

[1:42:27] five of us going and the rest of you on

[1:42:29] the 15th.

[1:42:31] Council member Codle.

[1:42:34] >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. Um,

[1:42:37] » Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. Um,

[1:42:37] I'm not going to beat a dead horse with

[1:42:38] the park equipment. Um, but I think we

[1:42:41] can do better with communication. You

[1:42:43] know, an ounce of prevention is worth a

[1:42:44] pound of cure and nobody likes getting

[1:42:47] beat up over issues. Um, I would have

[1:42:50] had questions regarding some of this

[1:42:51] equipment before it was removed, but

[1:42:53] it's a it's a moot point now. Um, but I

[1:42:56] think we can do better with with

[1:42:58] communication and not only from

[1:43:00] departments to us, but from us to

[1:43:02] departments, too. So, um, Holly,

[1:43:07] I I'm I'm just going to say thank you

[1:43:09] for your training.

[1:43:11] [laughter] We've all been through

[1:43:12] training. Everybody here learns

[1:43:14] differently.

[1:43:16] Some are visual, some are a audio, you

[1:43:19] know. Um, and I it is the job of each

[1:43:24] council member to know our ethics code,

[1:43:29] but your trainings are good. And I think

[1:43:32] that you can never have too much of

[1:43:34] that. I have sat through, you know,

[1:43:35] training here with the commissions and I

[1:43:39] think it's always good to have the

[1:43:40] refreshers no matter how they're

[1:43:42] delivered. So, thank you. Um, and just

[1:43:45] want to wish everybody happy

[1:43:46] Thanksgiving.

[1:43:49] Council member Johnson.

[1:43:54] » Yes. Thank you, uh, Deputy Mayor and

[1:43:56] Council. Uh, I will choose to beat the

[1:44:01] dead horse, but for a different reason.

[1:44:05] I was really disappointed with 2518.

[1:44:10] I have long complained on Nukem Park on

[1:44:14] Iditarod Park and now we find Lucille

[1:44:17] Park's equipment is not being

[1:44:20] maintained.

[1:44:22] My discouragement is the fact that we in

[1:44:24] the city is not maintaining the stuff.

[1:44:26] Oh, then we find out that it's broken to

[1:44:29] the point where we've got to re remove

[1:44:31] it all together. This is unacceptable.

[1:44:35] As far as training goes, I really love

[1:44:38] training. I believe that the training

[1:44:41] should be posted in a training folder

[1:44:44] because this is not the first time that

[1:44:46] we've had ethics training. And guess

[1:44:49] what? It won't be the last. So why do we

[1:44:52] have to recreate all of the powerpoints

[1:44:55] every time by somebody? Maybe we update

[1:44:58] them, but they should be online so we

[1:45:01] all could review in ahead. So when we

[1:45:03] see training is coming up, go to the

[1:45:05] boulder and look at the training. Thank

[1:45:07] you. Everybody has should have a nice

[1:45:10] Thanksgiving. Goodbye,

[1:45:14] >> Council Member Schmidt.

[1:45:17] » Council Member Schmidt.

[1:45:17] >> I [clears throat] want to say thank you

[1:45:18] » I [clears throat] want to say thank you

[1:45:18] for the PowerPoint. I really enjoyed it.

[1:45:20] Um, I did learn a few things on it

[1:45:22] because I haven't sat through it myself

[1:45:24] and uh do I do approve that and I am

[1:45:28] glad we finally got through the uh

[1:45:30] downtown overlay and got that removed.

[1:45:33] Um, I think that was stifling to a lot

[1:45:35] of our businesses here and the the

[1:45:37] community and I think that was a huge

[1:45:39] win for tonight. That's all I've got.

[1:45:42] Happy Thanksgiving

[1:45:45] >> and I'll bring it back to me. All right,

[1:45:47] » and I'll bring it back to me. All right,

[1:45:47] I got to end on a high note, joyful

[1:45:49] note. Um, I dropped the puck at the Guns

[1:45:52] and Hoses this last weekend and uh,

[1:45:55] Scott, the Menard Center, it was packed.

[1:45:59] It's beautiful. I like I found myself a

[1:46:02] few times just sitting back and going,

[1:46:04] "Wow."

[1:46:05] Like, you've done an amazing job. Um,

[1:46:08] that event was awesome, too. And then

[1:46:10] I'm just going to say happy Thanksgiving

[1:46:12] to everybody. And looking at the clock

[1:46:14] with no further business at hand I'm

[1:46:16] adjuring the meeting unless objection is

[1:46:18] raised. No good reach for it. It was I

[1:46:22] was hearing none. The media is a

City Council Regular - 24 Nov 2025

Transcript