[0:00] audio is at least

[0:05] ready to start.

[0:06] >> All right.

[0:09] » All right.

[0:09] Now, call to order this meeting of the

[0:12] White House City Council for today,

[0:13] August 17th, 2026. It is 8:30

[0:17] a.m.

[0:19] So, I guess it is time for roll call.

[0:26] » Mayor Wley

[0:27] >> here. Council member Lou

[0:29] » here. Council member Lou

[0:29] >> here.

[0:29] » here.

[0:29] >> Council member Burns

[0:30] » Council member Burns

[0:30] >> here.

[0:31] » here.

[0:31] >> Council member Brisco

[0:32] » Council member Brisco

[0:32] >> here.

[0:32] » here.

[0:32] >> Council member Chambers

[0:33] » Council member Chambers

[0:33] >> here.

[0:34] » here.

[0:34] >> Council member Lazar.

[0:36] » Council member Lazar.

[0:36] >> Thank [snorts] you ma'am. All right. The

[0:38] » Thank [snorts] you ma'am. All right. The

[0:38] only action item on this agenda is item

[0:40] number B which is discuss consideration

[0:43] and provide direction on the fiscal year

[0:46] 2020 627 budget and tax rate. This be

[0:51] all we're doing today. We have four

[0:52] hours scheduled for this section. So

[0:56] feel free to dive in, ask any questions

[0:59] necessary. Um, and we kind of have a

[1:02] hard problem to solve this time.

[1:06] >> We have some state legislative

[1:10] » We have some state legislative

[1:10] changes that came in that removed items

[1:13] from our tax role. So although we did,

[1:18] you'll see that although we did grow as

[1:20] a community over the last year, we also

[1:23] had some things kind of taken taken off

[1:26] the plate mostly on the business side

[1:28] about business business property tax

[1:30] reductions.

[1:31] But you'll see and I want to thank

[1:34] >> Leslie and the staff, Jennifer,

[1:35] » Leslie and the staff, Jennifer,

[1:36] everybody for

[1:37] >> diving in and taking several rounds at

[1:39] » diving in and taking several rounds at

[1:39] this. This this document in front of

[1:41] y'all is a lot of work that they started

[1:44] a long time ago and have been keeping an

[1:46] eye on everything coming in from the tax

[1:48] assessor's office, everything coming in

[1:50] from the legislation,

[1:53] everything that's been happening with

[1:54] our city and it's a snapshot at the

[1:57] time. I think that was yesterday of what

[1:59] we're working with at the moment. I

[2:01] think there's still some final numbers

[2:02] from the tax assessor's office that

[2:06] we're waiting on. We have some what are

[2:09] they called? Disputes or

[2:10] >> uh properties under protest.

[2:12] » uh properties under protest.

[2:12] >> Properties under protest. That window is

[2:14] » Properties under protest. That window is

[2:14] extended. Like we always have properties

[2:15] under protest. That's part of the cycle,

[2:17] but there was an extension given to that

[2:20] date of when they had to get those in

[2:22] and it's overlapping our budgeting

[2:24] cycle. So, we don't have a clearest

[2:26] picture as we normally do during this

[2:28] time. But I think what the staff is

[2:30] looking for in this meeting is

[2:33] uh given what we know and given what it

[2:36] to be what direction the council wants

[2:39] to take regarding the budget. So with

[2:42] that, I'll hand it over to uh Oh, sorry,

[2:46] Zach.

[2:47] >> Yeah, just want based on what we know

[2:48] » Yeah, just want based on what we know

[2:48] now. I mean, what's our shortfall to

[2:50] what we were planning to do originally?

[2:53] >> We're going to walk through some of that

[2:55] » We're going to walk through some of that

[2:55] because there are some decisions to be

[2:57] made. staff has identified some

[2:59] potential savings that we can implement.

[3:01] And so we'll kind of walk through where

[3:04] we were, where we are now, and then

[3:06] where you all would like to head.

[3:09] >> But it is quite a different journey than

[3:11] » But it is quite a different journey than

[3:11] it was last year.

[3:12] >> It is.

[3:13] » It is.

[3:13] >> Okay.

[3:15] » Okay.

[3:15] It is a significantly different

[3:17] conversation than we've had in years

[3:18] past.

[3:21] Um, so just to kind of reiterate what

[3:23] Mayor Wsley had said, what we're going

[3:24] to do today is just walk through the

[3:26] financial environment affecting the

[3:28] budget and why it is so different this

[3:30] year. Um, we need to evaluate our

[3:33] general fund, service levels, area for

[3:35] reduction and particularly public safety

[3:37] priorities for the upcoming fiscal year.

[3:40] Um, discuss your options with the

[3:43] property tax rate and what the

[3:44] associated taxpayer impact is. And then

[3:48] um we need direction from you all on

[3:50] those reductions, additions, and the

[3:52] rate um to potentially propose a rate on

[3:55] August 10th. I do think you have some

[3:58] flexibility if you're not quite ready to

[4:00] propose a tax rate on August 10th to

[4:02] possibly push that out to the 24th, but

[4:05] we'll talk about that as we go through

[4:06] today to see where all you think um if

[4:09] you think you're ready to make a

[4:10] decision on that or if you would like a

[4:12] little bit more time or more

[4:13] information.

[4:18] So, here's kind of look at our timing

[4:20] today. Um, we will take a break about

[4:23] 10:45

[4:25] and then plan to head all the way out

[4:27] until noon. So, we've got a lot to

[4:29] cover. Um, we're going to spend a lot

[4:31] more time today than we typically have

[4:34] on the tax rate and how that's

[4:36] calculated and what factors go into that

[4:38] because of such a significant difference

[4:40] this year than what we've seen in

[4:42] previous years.

[4:44] >> [clears throat]

[4:46] » Um, so I know Mayor Wanley has kind of

[4:49] looked at, he and I have discussed, he

[4:51] kind of has four different dials that

[4:52] he's looking at for how we come to this

[4:54] conclusion. Um, for us, for as a staff

[4:57] though, the way we've taken it is, you

[5:00] know, what level of service should the

[5:02] city provide, what reductions are we are

[5:06] acceptable, and then what rate supports

[5:08] that direction.

[5:10] Um, and all of those things are tied

[5:12] together.

[5:15] So, let's talk about the

[5:17] financial environment.

[5:20] Um, what we're seeing now is

[5:22] significantly more volatility in your

[5:25] property tax values than what we've seen

[5:28] in the past. So,

[5:31] every year we get several different

[5:32] numbers from the tax appraisal district.

[5:35] So the one that we kind of the one that

[5:39] we calculate the tax rate on is the

[5:41] certified appraisal rule which we

[5:43] receive on July 25th.

[5:45] Um that we have the tax rate calculation

[5:48] form in your notebooks today. So we

[5:51] received that on July 25th. What changed

[5:54] this year was our um appraisals grew but

[6:00] our net taxable value did not. And so

[6:02] we'll talk a little bit more about that.

[6:05] Um, as I mentioned to you all

[6:06] previously,

[6:08] there was a new exemption that went into

[6:10] effect this year, House Bill 9, which

[6:13] increased business business personal

[6:15] property tax exemptions from 25,000 to

[6:18] 125,000.

[6:20] That resulted in $10 million of value no

[6:22] longer being on the tax roles. Um, so

[6:25] that's a pretty significant difference

[6:26] in the property tax revenue. As the

[6:29] mayor mentioned, we do have protests.

[6:31] So, they have extended the amount of

[6:34] time that people have to protest their

[6:36] property tax values. So, for the first

[6:39] time this year, we have to show about

[6:41] $2.1 million in value currently under

[6:44] protest in our tax rate calculation form

[6:46] that we have not had to do in years

[6:48] prior. So, that also impacts your tax

[6:51] rate and can make the rate higher

[6:53] because you're taking that value out of

[6:55] your calculation.

[6:58] Any questions

[7:00] so far? I know it's a lot of a lot of

[7:03] words, but we're going to keep keep

[7:06] going through it.

[7:07] >> We're going to dive in each one.

[7:09] » We're going to dive in each one.

[7:09] >> We are. [laughter]

[7:10] » We are. [laughter]

[7:10] >> I know you're also very excited.

[7:12] » I know you're also very excited.

[7:12] >> So, the 2.1 that's in protests, how much

[7:15] » So, the 2.1 that's in protests, how much

[7:15] could that move the needle for us either

[7:17] way?

[7:18] >> I have no idea. Um,

[7:22] » I have no idea. Um,

[7:22] there's really

[7:24] no way for me to know. Oh, you're saying

[7:27] maybe what's the what portion of the

[7:29] total does that represent

[7:31] >> as far as the general fund impact?

[7:33] » as far as the general fund impact?

[7:33] >> Yeah.

[7:34] » Yeah.

[7:34] >> So, it would be

[7:44] depending on what M rate you choose. Um,

[7:54] it's not very much.

[8:03] At the current rate, it's only about

[8:05] $15,000 between the general fund and

[8:07] debt service fund, but it does it does

[8:11] impact your rate calculation in a way

[8:13] that it hasn't before. So,

[8:18] » yeah. What's also strange is uh and

[8:20] you'll probably get into this, but we

[8:22] have maintenance and operation and

[8:23] interest in sinking. And interesting is

[8:27] a portion of the property tax that we

[8:29] put towards our obligations, our loans

[8:31] basically. So when the property tax

[8:36] total is reduced,

[8:38] that number needs to come up on the INS

[8:41] side to reach those obligations. That's

[8:43] also a situation we're not normally in.

[8:45] Normally we see that there's more

[8:48] properties under valuation this year

[8:49] than last year. Is there any need to

[8:53] raise the property tax rate and we just

[8:54] say no? And that's the behavior we've

[8:56] had for the last five years. Um but it's

[9:00] a different question this year. We're

[9:02] probably going to have to at least put

[9:04] something on the INS side so that we can

[9:06] meet those debt obligations.

[9:18] um

[9:22] so to the mayor's point and O which is

[9:24] maintenance operations funds our general

[9:26] fund which is where we're going to spend

[9:27] most of our time today because of the

[9:29] change in the financial [clears throat]

[9:30] outlook and then INS pays debt service

[9:33] so a little bit of history on how we

[9:35] calculate debt service because we've

[9:37] issued some cos in the past so what we

[9:40] normally do when we're looking at

[9:41] issuing debt is we have our financial

[9:43] advisor to prepare a 30-year outlook

[9:45] that is based on your assessed taxable

[9:49] values. In the past, that number has

[9:52] been relatively close to your net

[9:54] taxable value. So, the amount that

[9:56] you're actually can count on receiving.

[9:59] This year, that amount is vastly

[10:01] different. There's a big enough

[10:02] difference that it has a significant

[10:04] impact on the debt rate. Um so based on

[10:07] a statutory tax rate calculation

[10:10] the debt rate would need to increase

[10:12] from about 28 cents to

[10:17] spreadsheet

[10:20] 335717.

[10:24] So it's about a 5 cent increase on the

[10:27] debt rate according to the statuto rate

[10:30] calculation sheet and that is what is

[10:32] legally required to meet our legal debt

[10:35] obligations.

[10:37] All right and we'll talk about some

[10:39] other things that factor into that. Um

[10:42] but as we talk about property tax rates,

[10:46] we have the current rate which is the

[10:48] 2025 2026 fiscal year rate which is

[10:53] 289852

[10:54] for the INS and 428003

[10:59] for IMO for a total rate of 717855.

[11:03] We use the state rate calculation form

[11:06] to calculate the non revenue rate, the

[11:08] voter approval rate and the nitimous

[11:10] rate. The no new revenue rate is the

[11:12] approximate rate that generates the same

[11:14] revenue from properties taxed in both

[11:17] years excluding new improvements.

[11:20] So you say, "Hey, we generated $5.3

[11:23] million last year. What rate would we

[11:25] charge for $5.3 million this year?" What

[11:29] it does not do as well is calculating

[11:32] are changes in your statutory debt

[11:34] requirements.

[11:36] So, if you'll notice in your notebook on

[11:37] the rate calculation form, the no new

[11:41] revenue rate

[11:43] is down below the current year even

[11:46] though our um

[11:51] valuations went down.

[11:55] » [clears throat]

[11:58] » So it's going to be on the very last

[12:00] page behind your tax rate analysis will

[12:02] show your know your revenue rate, your

[12:05] vi approval rate and your dividend rate.

[12:13] This sign page the last page in the tax

[12:15] rate analysis section.

[12:22] So you see there the no new revenue rate

[12:24] would change our current rate from

[12:26] 717855

[12:28] to 711646.

[12:32] The voter approval rate is the rate that

[12:35] would generate three and a half% more

[12:37] income more revenue

[12:40] than your current revenue.

[12:43] So that rate goes up almost, let's see,

[12:47] it's up 13 cents over the current rate.

[12:52] Part of that is because of what we call

[12:54] the unused increment rate.

[12:57] So as a council, if you adopt a rate

[12:59] that is below the voter approval rate,

[13:03] the state allocates that as what's

[13:05] called an unused increment rate or gone

[13:07] revenue, okay, that you could have

[13:09] adopted but you did not because we have

[13:12] lean operations. We were committed to

[13:13] maintaining an overall tax rate. We kept

[13:15] costs low.

[13:17] Um, so if you flip back one page, you'll

[13:22] see the unused increment rate worksheet.

[13:27] So lines 64

[13:30] through 68

[13:32] deal with that unused increment.

[13:35] So, what this says is that over the last

[13:39] three years,

[13:41] because of a strong fiscal commitment

[13:42] from the council, you all have foregone

[13:45] revenue of $531,397.

[13:51] » So, year-over-year, that's a, if I

[13:53] remember right, that's a pretty big jump

[13:55] in the voter approval rate.

[13:57] >> Yeah. What what drives the voter

[13:59] » Yeah. What what drives the voter

[13:59] approval rate?

[14:00] >> It's your unused increment.

[14:02] » It's your unused increment.

[14:02] >> Okay.

[14:02] » Okay.

[14:02] >> And three and a half%

[14:05] » And three and a half%

[14:05] grow.

[14:05] >> Okay.

[14:06] » Okay.

[14:06] >> Yeah. It's over the past five or six

[14:07] » Yeah. It's over the past five or six

[14:07] years we've banked that increment,

[14:09] >> right?

[14:10] » right?

[14:10] >> Because

[14:11] » Because

[14:11] uh we didn't need it, so we didn't ask

[14:14] for it. And now because we're at a point

[14:17] where we may need it, it's there if we

[14:19] want to if we want to use it.

[14:25] » So that adds approximate the unused

[14:27] increment rate

[14:29] adds about seven cents to the voter

[14:31] approval rate.

[14:36] Then you have the dimminimous rate. So

[14:38] for cities under 30,000 in population,

[14:41] the state allows for a calculation that

[14:43] would result in an additional $500,000

[14:46] in general fund revenue, general fund

[14:49] and revenue.

[14:52] So typically in the past, our

[14:54] dimminimous rate has been higher than

[14:56] the voter approval rate. They were

[14:57] swapped this year because of that unused

[15:00] increment rate. an exhibitor approval

[15:02] rate higher than the diminous rate. The

[15:05] important thing about each of these

[15:08] three rates, so the no new revenue rate,

[15:11] if you adopt anything over the no new

[15:13] revenue rate is considered to be a tax

[15:15] increase. Even if you were to adopt the

[15:18] same rate that we have today, it's

[15:21] considered by the state and the way the

[15:22] legislation is written as a tax

[15:24] increase.

[15:27] If you adopt the lower of the voter

[15:30] approval rate or the dimminimous rate,

[15:34] it's adopted and there are no further

[15:36] steps.

[15:37] If you

[15:39] in this particular year were to adopt

[15:42] above the dimminimous rate, voters would

[15:44] have the opportunity to petition for an

[15:46] election. If you adopt over the voter

[15:49] approval rate, it's an automatic

[15:51] election

[15:53] >> to the voters. Okay? I just want you to

[15:56] » to the voters. Okay? I just want you to

[15:56] understand the implications and the

[15:57] importance of each of those as we talk

[16:00] through today.

[16:03] Okay. Our certified appraisal roles this

[16:06] year um

[16:09] were interesting to say the least and

[16:11] most of you have been updated on this

[16:13] but I kind of want to I want to cover it

[16:14] again um to kind of let you know what we

[16:17] have found since we last discussed it

[16:23] last year in our certified appraisal

[16:26] rules. Um we did see significant growth.

[16:29] Um it was not anything that we felt like

[16:33] was

[16:35] exponential. It was a little bit

[16:36] unordinary in the amount of growth that

[16:39] we had in business personal property.

[16:42] Where it really showed up is when we got

[16:44] the appraisal rule for this year. Um so

[16:47] last year we had about $40 million in

[16:50] business personal property growth.

[16:54] This year our business personal property

[16:56] growth is down below what we saw in

[16:58] 2023.

[17:00] Uh when I spoke with the chief

[17:02] appraiser,

[17:04] she indicated that this has to do with

[17:06] commercial leases. And so the entire

[17:08] value of an entity's commercial lease

[17:12] was incorrectly allocated to the city of

[17:14] White House when it should have been

[17:15] spread across jurisdictions in Smith

[17:17] County.

[17:20] The good news, if there is any, is that

[17:23] all taxpayers were build appropriately

[17:26] and the amount of revenue that we

[17:28] collected is correct. So, we did not

[17:31] overcolct

[17:32] property tax revenue. And the way that

[17:35] happens, so certified rolls, you know,

[17:39] when I'm looking at preparing the budget

[17:41] and the tax rate, I get really excited

[17:43] because I'm like, okay, certified rolls

[17:44] are here. We're good to go. we have this

[17:46] this number that we can base our next

[17:49] year on. It's not really how that works.

[17:53] So, it's it's what we base our tax rate

[17:54] calculation on and our budget on, but

[17:57] that number continues to move throughout

[17:59] the end of the year. Um, protests get

[18:01] resolved. The um tax assessor collector

[18:05] has to send out bills. There's potential

[18:08] for errors, corrections, all of those

[18:10] things.

[18:12] So the appraisal district and the

[18:14] assessor realized the error between July

[18:17] and October of last year. So the bills

[18:20] that went out in October were corrected.

[18:23] We weren't notified of that error, but

[18:26] um so be it.

[18:29] So then we received preliminary values

[18:32] in April. I noticed our business

[18:35] personal property was down. Then we

[18:36] reached out to the chief appraiser.

[18:38] Didn't ever really get a good answer.

[18:41] Then those House Bill 9 exemptions that

[18:44] I talked about earlier were also not

[18:46] reflected on preliminary values. So the

[18:49] value loss between our preliminary

[18:51] values in April and certified ROS in

[18:54] July was about $53 million, which is

[18:57] significantly more than what we've seen

[18:59] in years past.

[19:02] Um, so when we received certified rolls

[19:05] this July, one thing that we noticed,

[19:08] our certified role is up, which means

[19:11] that's a combination of new

[19:13] construction, growth in property values,

[19:16] but for the first time that I've ever

[19:18] seen, net taxable value is down.

[19:21] that has to do with those exemptions,

[19:23] protests, um various other factors,

[19:28] which really makes this challenging

[19:29] because when you look around and you see

[19:32] millions of dollars in property growth,

[19:36] but your revenues are decre your net

[19:38] taxable value for your revenues are

[19:40] decreasing.

[19:42] Um my concern is that I think we will

[19:45] continue to see this based on what we're

[19:48] hearing out of the legislature. I think

[19:50] there's a very real push um to continue

[19:53] with expanding exemptions, limiting

[19:56] revenue growth for cities um and local

[20:01] governments.

[20:02] >> Yeah. The property taxes collected uh

[20:05] » Yeah. The property taxes collected uh

[20:05] don't go to the state. So they go to the

[20:07] cities, the municipal utility districts,

[20:09] the schools, TJC, volunteer fire

[20:13] departments. So politically, it's really

[20:15] easy for the state to push for

[20:17] legislation that doesn't impact them

[20:19] financially. They can say, "We're

[20:21] reducing your tax rate. We're helping

[20:23] you out, but they're not doing

[20:24] anything." That's a hill that they will

[20:26] stand on because they'll never die on

[20:28] it. That's not that's not affecting

[20:29] their bottom line at all. So, there's no

[20:32] empathy there

[20:34] uh from the state when it comes to

[20:35] pushing this stuff. And there's a lot of

[20:37] momentum. The governor's uh action

[20:40] points are basically all pointed towards

[20:43] that.

[20:44] uh abolishing them without a plan just

[20:47] like they did these business personal

[20:50] property taxes um without a way to say

[20:53] you know who you can argue yes or no

[20:56] whether it's fair that businesses have

[20:57] to pay personal property taxes but it's

[21:00] what budgets are built on and taking

[21:02] that money away from the county the city

[21:04] the school TJC municipal fire or

[21:08] volunteer fire departments without some

[21:10] contingency to help make up at at at

[21:13] least for a few years while we figure

[21:15] out another way to recoup that is what

[21:17] we ran into this year.

[21:20] Sorry, got off a tangent.

[21:22] >> Both other municipalities are running

[21:24] » Both other municipalities are running

[21:24] through the same thing.

[21:26] >> Absolutely.

[21:26] » Absolutely.

[21:26] >> Every school, every

[21:28] » Every school, every

[21:28] >> care about White House, but this is

[21:30] » care about White House, but this is

[21:30] statewide.

[21:32] >> Yeah.

[21:32] » Yeah.

[21:32] >> I mean, it's it's a business personal

[21:35] » I mean, it's it's a business personal

[21:35] property tax

[21:36] >> and there's not a huge business presence

[21:39] » and there's not a huge business presence

[21:39] here in White House. you know, we're

[21:41] kind of what you'd call a bedroom

[21:42] community where

[21:43] >> you just imagine how it hits other

[21:45] » you just imagine how it hits other

[21:45] cities. You know, [snorts] it's going to

[21:46] be even harder for some of them.

[21:48] >> Well, and because of the air at the

[21:50] » Well, and because of the air at the

[21:50] appraisal district's office,

[21:53] it it ended up being about a 40 or $50

[21:57] million impact to us on business

[22:00] personal property value from last year

[22:02] to this year. So, that's significant.

[22:05] You combine that with what we're seeing

[22:07] out of the legislature and that's why

[22:09] that gap between certified appraisal

[22:11] role and net tax value, you can see how

[22:14] that gap has just grown over time

[22:18] to be more and more significant.

[22:21] >> And this legislator is fighting with the

[22:23] » And this legislator is fighting with the

[22:23] appraisal districts on how they do

[22:25] things. And we're in the middle of that,

[22:26] too. So, some of the stuff they pass is

[22:30] a way to reduce property taxes by kind

[22:33] of hitting them with limitations and

[22:35] shots. I don't know how they come up

[22:37] with property tax values. I don't know

[22:39] why my small lot that my house is on

[22:42] went from $20,000 to $60,000 this year.

[22:44] I have no idea how they calculate that

[22:46] stuff. So, I mean, I have some of the

[22:49] same questions for the appraisal

[22:50] districts that our state representatives

[22:51] do, but it's the legislation that is

[22:54] aimed at them since a lot of times

[22:55] bleeds over to us, just like legislation

[22:58] for large cities, you know, to put them

[23:00] under control winds up affecting all

[23:03] cities. But this this personal property

[23:06] tax uh was not was not stepped up, not

[23:10] incremented. It was a big jump from 2500

[23:12] to 125,000. That's that's pretty big. So

[23:15] yeah, I'd imagine you'll see this a lot

[23:18] affect a lot of

[23:19] >> and and as a senior citizen myself, I

[23:21] » and and as a senior citizen myself, I

[23:21] was excited as pumpkin pie about

[23:24] homestead exemption going up. But then

[23:26] again, there's always a give and a take.

[23:30] So,

[23:41] so again, this is just kind of talking

[23:42] about, you know, this budget workshop is

[23:45] much much later than we've typically

[23:47] done in years prior. And a lot of that

[23:49] is because forecasting what property tax

[23:52] revenues are going to look like has

[23:53] become increasingly challenging with

[23:55] more exemptions, longer protest period,

[23:58] legislative challenges. Um, and so all

[24:01] of that really leads to to much less

[24:04] certainty than what we've had in the

[24:05] past. Um, typically I could run the tax

[24:08] rate calculation off of our preliminary

[24:10] values and have a relative degree of

[24:12] comfort where we were going to end up on

[24:14] property tax revenues. this year it was

[24:17] anyone's guess.

[24:19] So, and that's what I'm hearing from a

[24:20] lot of other city managers as well. So,

[24:28] so one of the things in looking through

[24:30] this is okay, that's the situation that

[24:33] we're in. Those are the rules that we

[24:34] have to play by. What can we do? Let's

[24:38] really take a good look at what revenues

[24:40] we're budgeting, what revenues we're

[24:42] receiving, and how those perform against

[24:45] each other. So, this chart looks at

[24:47] three different things. It looks at the

[24:49] statutory levy, budgeted revenue, and

[24:52] actual collections. So, the statutory

[24:55] levy is if you took the tax rate that's

[24:57] on the tax rate calculation sheet

[25:01] and calculated your revenue. So you took

[25:03] your net taxable value divided by 100

[25:06] times your property tax rate. What

[25:08] should you be collecting? Okay. So

[25:10] that's the column in blue.

[25:13] The gray is what we budgeted for

[25:16] revenue. So you can see that since 2022

[25:19] we have typically budgeted more revenue

[25:22] than the statutory levy. It's because

[25:24] some of those protests come back online.

[25:27] um you know that number is again

[25:29] constantly changing and so we end up

[25:31] collecting more than what the statutory

[25:34] levy would show. So our budgeted revenue

[25:39] um is in the gray and then the red is

[25:42] what we actually collected.

[25:44] We typically budget less revenue than

[25:46] what we're going to collect by design.

[25:48] We want to make a conservative approach

[25:49] so that if errors are found between July

[25:51] and October or even after that we make

[25:54] sure that we have enough funds to uh

[25:57] continue operations but you don't want

[25:59] it to be so much right you want to

[26:01] collect what you need but not beyond

[26:03] that. Um so the difference between

[26:06] actual collections and the statutory

[26:08] level is usually about 90%.

[26:13] >> Yeah. 80 88 89 91. Yeah.

[26:16] » Yeah. 80 88 89 91. Yeah.

[26:16] >> Averages out to be about 90%. And then

[26:19] » Averages out to be about 90%. And then

[26:19] budgeted revenue, we've tried to keep it

[26:22] about 97% of actual collections. So

[26:27] those calculations are particularly

[26:29] important this year when it's such a

[26:31] tight year and we're we're talking about

[26:34] where that tax rate is going to fall. So

[26:36] those are kind of the baseline

[26:38] assumptions that we're working with when

[26:39] we start talking about tax rate

[26:41] scenarios. Again, this is just that

[26:45] information.

[26:46] Um,

[26:52] all right. Any questions about just

[26:55] basic tax rate information before we

[26:59] move to the general fund? So at the 97%

[27:03] of the statutory

[27:06] budgeting that way like we can't get

[27:08] there yet because we haven't gotten the

[27:10] full picture from

[27:12] the tax assessor yet for protest.

[27:15] There's protest and maybe some other

[27:16] stuff.

[27:17] >> So in the we can because the rate

[27:19] » So in the we can because the rate

[27:19] calculation says we have to go based on

[27:21] what we have right now. So we just have

[27:24] to keep that protest value out.

[27:26] >> Okay.

[27:28] » Okay.

[27:28] So, it's POS if that protest value comes

[27:30] in after we set the rate, are those

[27:33] still funds that are collected by the

[27:34] city?

[27:35] >> Yes.

[27:35] » Yes.

[27:35] >> Okay. And that's the 15,000 that you

[27:38] » Okay. And that's the 15,000 that you

[27:38] >> Yes.

[27:39] » Yes.

[27:39] >> Okay.

[27:40] » Okay.

[27:40] >> I mean, could things get even worse?

[27:43] » I mean, could things get even worse?

[27:43] >> Oh, sure.

[27:44] » Oh, sure.

[27:44] >> I mean, yeah. Okay.

[27:48] » I mean, yeah. Okay.

[27:48] >> Things can always get worse.

[27:49] » Things can always get worse.

[27:49] >> Oh, I know that.

[27:51] » Oh, I know that.

[27:51] >> I mean, in the immediate, right, the

[27:53] » I mean, in the immediate, right, the

[27:53] appraisal district or the assessor could

[27:55] make an error. There could be a lawsuit

[27:57] judgement. I mean, as well as

[27:58] legislative changes. There are any

[28:00] number of things that could drastically

[28:03] impact [snorts] once we've set this

[28:04] budget what our revenue looks like. Um

[28:08] the relative comfort is we do have a

[28:11] fund balance that meets government

[28:12] finance officers association

[28:14] recommendations of having at least 120

[28:17] days of operating expenses and reserves.

[28:19] And then um

[28:22] fortunately for us, we collect property

[28:24] tax revenues early in the fiscal year.

[28:26] So if determined to be an error, you

[28:29] have a little bit of time to fix it,

[28:31] make decisions.

[28:33] >> The 22 33 cent debt that you were

[28:38] » The 22 33 cent debt that you were

[28:38] talking about, you said that's in the

[28:40] INS calculation.

[28:41] >> It is.

[28:43] » It is.

[28:43] [clears throat]

[28:43] [snorts]

[28:47] » Just trying to clean up my notes.

[28:51] » All right. General fund. Um the line

[28:55] item budget that is in your notebook is

[28:58] the same as what you saw at your

[29:00] previous meeting what we provided. The

[29:01] only difference is the year-to date

[29:03] numbers have been updated as of

[29:04] yesterday.

[29:06] So Jennifer worked really hard to keep

[29:08] that running and updated for all of us.

[29:12] Um

[29:13] >> a printed living document. It it is um

[29:17] » a printed living document. It it is um

[29:18] so what was included in there were the

[29:20] previously discussed 3% cost of living

[29:22] adjustment for staff. Um

[29:26] any increases that are required to

[29:28] maintain operations as they stand today.

[29:31] Um so there are no requests no I mean

[29:34] just cost of supplies have gone up

[29:37] that's in there. um any previously

[29:39] approved projects are in there, but

[29:41] there is there's no other additions in

[29:44] there.

[29:46] So, right now, where that stands with

[29:49] the base budget is total revenues of

[29:52] 10,4,98

[29:56] and total expenditures of 10,2,262

[30:01] for a budgeted surplus of $2,646.

[30:06] Um,

[30:10] » so it is tight right now.

[30:12] >> Just those things.

[30:13] » Just those things.

[30:13] >> $2,000.

[30:17] » That's pretty squeaky.

[30:19] >> So, a couple of things. There are some

[30:21] » So, a couple of things. There are some

[30:21] larger projects that are reflected in

[30:23] the general fund.

[30:26] Shahan Park is in there. We'll talk a

[30:28] little bit in more detail when we get to

[30:29] the capital planning portion, but we do

[30:31] anticipate what's shown in there is the

[30:34] anticipation of the full amount of the

[30:36] grant that we're eligible for. If for

[30:39] some reason we do not receive that grant

[30:41] or that grant is less, staff will need

[30:44] to come back to you and we will need to

[30:46] look at other options for funding that

[30:48] grant. Um the Rosebrook drainage project

[30:53] um is supported by a little bit of a

[30:55] transfer um from capital funds.

[31:00] Again, grant revenue you'll see is

[31:01] significantly higher than prior years

[31:03] because of the assumption of that

[31:05] $750,000 grant.

[31:08] And then some transfers in from capital

[31:10] funds to help fund some of those

[31:11] projects.

[31:13] Um, our primary recurring revenue

[31:16] sources remain property tax, sales tax,

[31:18] solid waste, utility franchise fees,

[31:22] school resource officer funding from the

[31:24] school.

[31:26] We do remain the pilot at $225,000

[31:29] in the base budget. I know over the past

[31:31] several years, we've worked to reduce

[31:33] the amount of that pilot. Staff is

[31:35] recommending keeping it at $225,000 this

[31:38] year. And then some interesting.

[31:42] So, understanding the situation that we

[31:45] were facing with potential revenue

[31:48] shortfalls

[31:49] or an extremely tight budget, staff went

[31:52] back and reviewed the proposed budget

[31:54] line by line over the last two weeks.

[31:58] Um, we have identified $43,856

[32:03] worth of reductions that staff feel like

[32:05] we can make without impacting operations

[32:08] or service levels. Um, so these are

[32:10] things like producing professional

[32:12] memberships, um cleaning up some errors

[32:15] that may have been in there. We really,

[32:18] when I say we went through every line,

[32:19] we went through every line item.

[32:22] >> What's an example of a professional

[32:24] » What's an example of a professional

[32:24] membership?

[32:25] >> So, we're a member, the city is a member

[32:27] » So, we're a member, the city is a member

[32:27] of the National League of Cities, which

[32:29] is like TML at the national level.

[32:32] >> Um our interaction with them, we've only

[32:34] » Um our interaction with them, we've only

[32:34] been a member of them for about two

[32:36] years, but our interaction with them and

[32:38] the value, we just felt like in a tight

[32:39] year wasn't there.

[32:41] So reducing some of those.

[32:45] There are some other things cutting back

[32:46] on office supplies. Um I've got my list

[32:50] here with that

[32:57] any software products that we felt like

[32:59] we could make do with either other

[33:01] programs.

[33:03] Um delaying something. So, we had $3,000

[33:07] to digitize some maps um of developments

[33:10] and neighborhoods. And so, we felt like

[33:14] we could delay that or hold off on that

[33:16] um in a tight budget year before moving

[33:19] forward with that. Um so, those things

[33:21] that staff felt like we could either

[33:22] defer and delay until such time as we

[33:26] felt it was important to get it in

[33:27] there.

[33:28] >> Can I ask you a quick philosophic

[33:30] » Can I ask you a quick philosophic

[33:30] question? So you keep saying uh in a

[33:34] tight budget here and so is the mindset

[33:37] that we're just trying to get through

[33:39] this year or is the mindset that this is

[33:41] the new normal and that we need to start

[33:44] trying to make adjustments for a

[33:46] long-term shift.

[33:47] >> It's the new normal and it's something

[33:50] » It's the new normal and it's something

[33:50] we're going to face from now on.

[33:51] >> So like delaying things is it's either

[33:54] » So like delaying things is it's either

[33:54] now or later you're going to end up

[33:56] having to reabsorb that. So digitizing

[33:59] maps though that we've had

[34:02] >> for five or 10 years would be nice. It's

[34:05] » for five or 10 years would be nice. It's

[34:05] not mission critical for most of our

[34:07] citizens. That impact is not going to be

[34:10] felt.

[34:11] >> And what do we feel the overall

[34:12] » And what do we feel the overall

[34:12] shortfall is? That's where I'm trying to

[34:14] get to. So

[34:16] >> just one

[34:17] » just one

[34:17] >> um as we move through this staff is

[34:21] » um as we move through this staff is

[34:21] coming with a recommendation to fund an

[34:22] additional investigator, an additional

[34:24] firefighter, and the replacement of our

[34:26] police officer tasers. Um that net

[34:29] impact is about $200,000

[34:32] if we implement these savings that staff

[34:35] is recommending.

[34:36] >> And if we don't implement these savings,

[34:38] » And if we don't implement these savings,

[34:38] >> if we don't, it's closer to I think 300

[34:43] » if we don't, it's closer to I think 300

[34:43] 300,000.

[34:45] And and this is with the advent of uh

[34:48] neighborhood expansion growth even with

[34:52] all that.

[34:53] >> So that that's one of the

[34:55] » So that that's one of the

[34:55] >> some cities are stagnant.

[34:57] » some cities are stagnant.

[34:57] >> Well, the hurdle is we have population

[34:59] » Well, the hurdle is we have population

[34:59] growth.

[35:00] >> Yeah.

[35:00] » Yeah.

[35:00] >> And no revenue growth

[35:02] » And no revenue growth

[35:02] >> to provide for additional personnel.

[35:09] Yeah,

[35:09] >> but it is.

[35:11] » but it is.

[35:11] >> So, I guess where I'm at is, you know,

[35:13] » So, I guess where I'm at is, you know,

[35:13] I'm not interested in going backwards

[35:15] with all the progress we've made. So,

[35:17] I'd like to understand as we get more

[35:19] into this what we need to do to not go

[35:21] backwards and hold what we got while

[35:24] still preparing for the next couple

[35:25] years at the same time.

[35:27] >> Same.

[35:27] » Same.

[35:27] >> And if it's a new normal, find a way to

[35:29] » And if it's a new normal, find a way to

[35:29] keep going forward, too. So,

[35:31] >> if digitizing maps is necessary to help

[35:35] » if digitizing maps is necessary to help

[35:35] make and zoning and building and

[35:39] anything, you know, along those lines

[35:41] possible and current, you know, kind of

[35:44] modern.

[35:45] Uh, yeah, I could see that as something

[35:49] that we need. So, we have 50 how many

[35:51] full-time employees? I think we saw in

[35:53] here

[35:53] >> 55 full time.

[35:55] » 55 full time.

[35:55] >> There was 55.75 or something. There was

[35:57] » There was 55.75 or something. There was

[35:57] a

[35:57] >> we had some part [laughter] time

[35:59] » we had some part [laughter] time

[35:59] part-time employees and fire parttime in

[36:02] city center. I got eight

[36:04] >> and and all this is contingent. There's

[36:07] » and and all this is contingent. There's

[36:07] not

[36:08] >> it's not based on workload.

[36:09] » it's not based on workload.

[36:09] >> It has nothing to do with any personnel

[36:12] » It has nothing to do with any personnel

[36:12] reductions.

[36:14] >> So there's there are no personnel

[36:16] » So there's there are no personnel

[36:16] reductions recommended at this time.

[36:19] If you wanted to keep the same tax rate

[36:22] that we have today,

[36:24] >> my opinion is the only way we could get

[36:26] » my opinion is the only way we could get

[36:26] there would be to either we would have

[36:28] to cut staff

[36:30] >> or you would have to cut a significant

[36:34] » or you would have to cut a significant

[36:34] I mean I have a list here that totals

[36:37] about $300,000

[36:39] that um would cut everything from

[36:44] national night out Christmas on Maine um

[36:48] any work that we do with any other

[36:50] organizations.

[36:51] >> Those aren't even options.

[36:54] » Those aren't even options.

[36:54] >> Yeah.

[36:54] » Yeah.

[36:54] >> Okay.

[36:55] » Okay.

[36:55] >> But [laughter] what I was getting to,

[36:56] » But [laughter] what I was getting to,

[36:56] >> but but in all fairness,

[36:58] » but but in all fairness,

[36:58] >> I mean, if anybody disagrees, I mean,

[37:02] » I mean, if anybody disagrees, I mean,

[37:02] >> we can talk about the cuts or what we

[37:04] » we can talk about the cuts or what we

[37:04] could do, but I'd rather focus on what

[37:06] we need to do to stay home.

[37:10] >> And that's the direction that we need um

[37:12] » And that's the direction that we need um

[37:12] as a staff. So we had we had kind of

[37:14] looked at all options. You know, if you

[37:16] want to cut services to maintain tax

[37:19] rate, what does that look like?

[37:21] >> If you want to maintain just what we

[37:23] » If you want to maintain just what we

[37:23] have today, I would argue that not

[37:26] funding a police investigator and

[37:28] firefighter would would deteriorate

[37:31] services as we continue to grow.

[37:33] >> Yeah, we're already we're already

[37:34] » Yeah, we're already we're already

[37:34] understaffed on the police side

[37:35] according to FBI.

[37:37] >> Those are things that have to happen to

[37:39] » Those are things that have to happen to

[37:39] >> Okay.

[37:40] » Okay.

[37:40] >> Yeah. Same. So that as I was saying the

[37:43] » Yeah. Same. So that as I was saying the

[37:43] the things that we're cutting like

[37:44] digitizing things those seem like tools

[37:47] and resources that would help leverage

[37:49] the tight staff that we have like only

[37:52] 54 employees if access to those things

[37:54] being digitized or any software tools

[37:57] out there to help them perform more

[37:58] efficiently. That's I mean that's still

[38:01] better than hiring another person

[38:03] full-time with benefits to you know help

[38:06] them help take the load off the people

[38:08] that are there. And I think that's a

[38:09] strategy economic advantage,

[38:11] >> you know, and cutting out TML or

[38:14] » you know, and cutting out TML or

[38:14] different types, you know, I just that

[38:15] didn't make any sense to me. I mean,

[38:17] we're we're a growing [clears throat]

[38:19] progressive city and we got to figure

[38:20] out

[38:20] >> we're a very healthy.

[38:21] » we're a very healthy.

[38:21] >> We got to figure out how to we got to

[38:23] » We got to figure out how to we got to

[38:23] figure out how to fund it.

[38:24] >> Yeah.

[38:27] [clears throat]

[38:28] >> Well, that sounds like pretty

[38:30] » Well, that sounds like pretty

[38:30] our sales tax is maxed out in it.

[38:33] >> Yes.

[38:34] » Yes.

[38:34] >> Yeah.

[38:35] » Yeah.

[38:35] >> Okay. So, mute deal. Okay.

[38:38] » Okay. So, mute deal. Okay.

[38:38] >> Yeah. We are at the statutory limit on

[38:41] » Yeah. We are at the statutory limit on

[38:41] sales tax

[38:42] >> and the state hadn't taken that away

[38:44] » and the state hadn't taken that away

[38:44] from us yet. [laughter]

[38:46] >> We still grow in sales tax

[38:49] » We still grow in sales tax

[38:49] >> to projected final tax rate. So with the

[38:53] » to projected final tax rate. So with the

[38:53] 300

[38:55] K M and then the the 28 to 33 C IMS

[39:01] which I guess was the the actual

[39:06] summary of the calculation

[39:11] » up here. It's not in there.

[39:17] So this is a rate calculation [snorts]

[39:19] looking at several different scenarios,

[39:22] but I do have one in here

[39:26] >> high that we can kind of take a look at

[39:30] » high that we can kind of take a look at

[39:30] and see

[39:30] >> public safety rate

[39:32] » public safety rate

[39:32] >> that was the rate with the cut staff

[39:34] » that was the rate with the cut staff

[39:34] identified that it would take to fund

[39:36] those public safety invest firefighter

[39:40] and tasers. So that is not that takes

[39:42] into account the staff reductions that

[39:45] we were recommending. If we add those

[39:47] back in that's another $75,000

[39:50] roughly that we would need to generate.

[39:53] >> So that would be closer to $278,000

[39:57] » So that would be closer to $278,000

[39:57] which is what we need to generate.

[39:58] >> So to be clear, there's no real decision

[40:01] » So to be clear, there's no real decision

[40:01] council has to make regarding INS. It's

[40:05] basically just based on our legal

[40:07] obligations to debt service.

[40:09] >> Yeah. I mean indirectly because your

[40:11] » Yeah. I mean indirectly because your

[40:11] overall tax rate has to include making

[40:14] up for that gap in INS.

[40:17] >> Understood.

[40:19] » Understood.

[40:19] >> Understood.

[40:19] » Understood.

[40:19] >> I mean, could we could we maybe be

[40:22] » I mean, could we could we maybe be

[40:22] better off than maybe what we think

[40:27] with even anticipating

[40:30] additional growth next year

[40:33] or is this pretty much it's pretty much

[40:35] that's the way it's the way it is. You

[40:38] mean estimating like

[40:39] >> yeah additional neighborhood growth,

[40:41] » yeah additional neighborhood growth,

[40:41] property expansion.

[40:44] >> So typically your additional property

[40:45] » So typically your additional property

[40:45] growth does not keep up with the growing

[40:49] needs that we have particularly because

[40:51] we are so far behind on staffing right

[40:55] now. I don't want to say behind. We're

[40:56] so lean on staffing currently. um that

[41:00] even in a

[41:03] really great year where we may have I

[41:05] think the highest since I've been here

[41:06] was I don't know 38 million in new

[41:09] construction but even then you know 38

[41:12] million in new construction

[41:22] let's say at a M rate of 447045

[41:27] you know that 40 million in a new

[41:29] construction. So that's probably

[41:32] I don't know how many homes that would

[41:34] be

[41:35] >> four. [laughter]

[41:38] » four. [laughter]

[41:38] >> It would be an issue.

[41:39] » It would be an issue.

[41:39] >> That only generates $170,000. I can't

[41:42] » That only generates $170,000. I can't

[41:42] even put an officer on the street,000.

[41:45] >> Yeah.

[41:46] » Yeah.

[41:46] >> Between $150.

[41:47] » Between $150.

[41:47] >> Oh, just because of fully

[41:49] » Oh, just because of fully

[41:49] >> equipment benefits. I mean, just all the

[41:52] » equipment benefits. I mean, just all the

[41:52] things. So what I was talking to one of

[41:55] our developers here who sold 30 houses

[41:57] the year before last and this last year

[41:59] he sold five.

[42:01] >> So

[42:01] » So

[42:01] >> so that's that's where the market was

[42:03] » so that's that's where the market was

[42:03] last year.

[42:05] >> The [clears throat] total

[42:07] » The [clears throat] total

[42:07] >> the big one with everything included the

[42:09] » the big one with everything included the

[42:10] 300

[42:13] » this tells me that EDC

[42:16] >> EDC

[42:18] » EDC

[42:18] >> um

[42:20] » um

[42:20] >> and that's the lower of the two. So no

[42:22] » and that's the lower of the two. So no

[42:22] petition.

[42:24] >> This tells me that okay

[42:29] » This tells me that okay

[42:29] this tells me that EDC has a

[42:31] [clears throat]

[42:32] extra even bigger responsibility.

[42:36] >> I mean it is

[42:38] » I mean it is

[42:38] pertinent. It's very important.

[42:41] >> Yeah. Those are I mean the things that

[42:43] » Yeah. Those are I mean the things that

[42:43] EDC does today is 10 years out probably.

[42:45] You're not going to you're not going to

[42:47] crank it up today and [clears throat]

[42:49] get revenue off. Give me an example of

[42:51] where that's different. It's not that

[42:52] way in Tyler. It's not that way in Long

[42:54] View. It's not that way in Kilgore.

[42:56] >> The land they bought, the land that the

[42:57] » The land they bought, the land that the

[42:57] Amazon was built on

[42:59] >> was purchased 25 years ago.

[43:01] » was purchased 25 years ago.

[43:01] >> Okay.

[43:03] » Okay.

[43:03] Still important.

[43:04] >> Absolutely.

[43:05] » Absolutely.

[43:05] >> And I think they're throwing all the gas

[43:07] » And I think they're throwing all the gas

[43:07] on it.

[43:09] >> But those are things that you plant and

[43:10] » But those are things that you plant and

[43:10] they it takes a while before they they

[43:13] come forward. I know they're seeking out

[43:14] every opportunity that comes their way

[43:16] and finding some that weren't discovered

[43:18] otherwise.

[43:21] So, this custom scenario is probably the

[43:23] one that's closest um to if we did not

[43:27] make the staff recommended cuts and

[43:29] provided those additional public safety

[43:31] positions. Um,

[43:36] which would still be below both the

[43:38] dimminimus and the voter approval rate.

[43:41] Um, so the average homestead in White

[43:44] House is valued at about $272,000.

[43:49] Um so if you were to adopt that rate as

[43:53] compared to

[43:55] let's do we need to do at least a

[43:58] increase the only rate because that is

[44:03] what is required would be about $87 per

[44:05] household per year

[44:06] >> per year to go to the 79

[44:18] And that's that's well below the voter

[44:20] approval rate. Is that

[44:24] » number of the two?

[44:26] >> Yeah, it was was lower two this year.

[44:29] » Yeah, it was was lower two this year.

[44:29] >> There.

[44:30] » There.

[44:30] >> So that's not even using everything we

[44:31] » So that's not even using everything we

[44:31] banked up over the last

[44:34] >> that's

[44:35] » that's

[44:35] a little sidebar.

[44:37] >> Our staff is fantastic.

[44:42] » [clears throat and cough]

[44:45] » Um, I will say so staff had a whole list

[44:48] of other [laughter]

[44:50] identified projects too for

[44:51] consideration. I've we've only included

[44:54] those top three here. Um,

[44:58] we can take a look at those other items.

[45:03] >> What's the realistic timing on Shahan

[45:05] » What's the realistic timing on Shahan

[45:05] Park? Um, we were supposed to find out

[45:08] about the grant.

[45:09] >> So, uh, grant is application is

[45:11] » So, uh, grant is application is

[45:11] submitted. We should hear if we get it

[45:14] right after the first of the year,

[45:15] sometime in January. Um, they really

[45:18] won't start awarding any money until the

[45:20] springtime, probably Mayish, Juneish.

[45:23] So, ideally, that would be a good

[45:26] construction start time be early summer

[45:29] next year. What fun?

[45:31] >> We won't be we won't be spending that

[45:34] » We won't be we won't be spending that

[45:34] >> part be spending that 1.4 for

[45:38] » part be spending that 1.4 for

[45:38] much of it in this next fiscal year for

[45:40] us,

[45:42] >> right? It would be

[45:44] » right? It would be

[45:44] >> next year.

[45:45] » next year.

[45:45] >> It would be Yeah, a bulk of it would be

[45:48] » It would be Yeah, a bulk of it would be

[45:48] probably

[45:49] >> So, is any are any of those funds

[45:50] » So, is any are any of those funds

[45:50] potentially a surplus for us this year?

[45:53] >> Well, they're the next I don't want to

[45:55] » Well, they're the next I don't want to

[45:55] cut the part.

[45:56] >> I think I think part of the question if

[45:59] » I think I think part of the question if

[45:59] if we don't get it, would we start

[46:01] earlier?

[46:02] >> Right.

[46:03] » Right.

[46:03] start January or February or something,

[46:04] but

[46:06] >> but it's our same budget. It's it's the

[46:09] » but it's our same budget. It's it's the

[46:09] same fiscal year if it's starting in

[46:11] January of next year,

[46:13] >> right? Okay.

[46:14] » right? Okay.

[46:14] >> So, yeah, that'll go through October of

[46:16] » So, yeah, that'll go through October of

[46:16] next year.

[46:17] >> Yeah.

[46:21] But yeah, that's a good that's a good

[46:23] question.

[46:24] >> And this is a good chart right here. I

[46:25] » And this is a good chart right here. I

[46:26] like it.

[46:26] >> Um, so this is a list of potential

[46:30] » Um, so this is a list of potential

[46:30] projects. So the way staff approaches

[46:33] our budget every year is we go through

[46:34] and do our base budget. What do we need

[46:36] to maintain what we have today? And then

[46:37] what would be operational improvements

[46:40] [snorts]

[46:41] and then we went through and ranked

[46:43] every project against every other

[46:45] project and spent about half a day

[46:49] pulling this list together. Um a lot of

[46:52] cities call these wish lists. I don't

[46:55] think there's anything on here that's a

[46:56] [snorts] wish and not a need at some

[46:58] point.

[47:00] But our needs are always greater than um

[47:03] >> how many tasers is $60,000 worth?

[47:08] » how many tasers is $60,000 worth?

[47:08] >> That fun

[47:10] » That fun

[47:10] 20 and it's for five years. So it's 16

[47:13] for five years.

[47:15] >> Oh, it's 16 per year for

[47:19] » Oh, it's 16 per year for

[47:19] >> we do 16 per year for five years.

[47:25] They're not being repaired since

[47:27] January.

[47:28] of this year and

[47:32] it just so happened that we were going

[47:33] with the five year point as well.

[47:34] >> And the difference between a good taser

[47:36] » And the difference between a good taser

[47:36] and a bad taser is a lethal stopping

[47:38] mechanism and a non-lethal stopping

[47:40] mechanism. We want them to be

[47:41] non-lethal.

[47:43] >> Less lethal.

[47:43] » Less lethal.

[47:43] >> Yes. Less lethal.

[47:46] » Yes. Less lethal.

[47:46] >> All four. [clears throat]

[47:47] » All four. [clears throat]

[47:47] >> They're they're all functional. Um, but

[47:51] » They're they're all functional. Um, but

[47:51] some of the

[47:53] uh digital readouts on them have the

[47:56] LEDs have gone away and a couple of the

[47:59] laser pointers have gone away and we've

[48:01] taken those and put it into

[48:04] positions

[48:06] investigated whether or not it's likely

[48:08] to be used but they're we've got five

[48:11] that I would put on the street right

[48:12] now. And the grant funding opportunities

[48:15] that are there for some of the police

[48:16] equipment is not there for tasers

[48:17] because they're considered lethal

[48:19] weapons at least through Edco's

[48:21] mechanism.

[48:23] >> There's

[48:26] » There's

[48:26] not down jump on no there there's some

[48:28] legislation to try to get that corrected

[48:30] but by the way they fire is through an

[48:33] explosive and so they consider it to be

[48:36] like

[48:38] >> they're trying to get that correct.

[48:41] » they're trying to get that correct.

[48:41] Um, and mayor and council, I know you

[48:43] all know this, but I'd be remiss if I

[48:44] didn't say it. When staff is looking at

[48:46] this and we got the certified rolls and

[48:48] started looking at cuts, this this team

[48:51] went through and when I saw you, you

[48:53] know, the chief is like, we could make

[48:55] do with this many tasers, you know, and

[48:57] reducing that and just trying to find a

[48:59] way to make that work. Um, so I really

[49:02] appreciate their efforts in this and um,

[49:04] every single person came to the table

[49:06] willing to say we can take up slack

[49:09] here, we can do without here. Um, so we

[49:12] appreciate you all supporting that,

[49:14] understanding that um, and and really

[49:17] giving us the direction to keep moving

[49:19] moving forward.

[49:22] number

[49:24] uh 11

[49:26] fire truck or excuse me

[49:31] >> what is that like a brush truck

[49:33] » what is that like a brush truck

[49:33] >> essentially yes

[49:34] » essentially yes

[49:34] >> I mean that'll help us a lot would it

[49:37] » I mean that'll help us a lot would it

[49:37] >> save that pumper from having started

[49:39] » save that pumper from having started

[49:39] maybe

[49:39] >> the

[49:41] » the

[49:41] it would be a definite

[49:47] » corner

[49:48] >> with our growth

[49:49] » with our growth

[49:49] >> and we're going closer to the edge of

[49:51] » and we're going closer to the edge of

[49:51] town opportunity.

[49:53] >> See at the bottom right it's one point

[49:55] » See at the bottom right it's one point

[49:55] or one million

[50:03] » um so anything goes right we can say

[50:06] jump in

[50:08] >> yeah that's none of these are in the

[50:10] » yeah that's none of these are in the

[50:10] budget right? No.

[50:12] >> Right. Yeah. As long as it's budget

[50:13] » Right. Yeah. As long as it's budget

[50:14] related.

[50:14] >> And you went

[50:15] » And you went

[50:15] >> three now.

[50:16] » three now.

[50:16] >> Top three.

[50:20] » So the the new city hall and all that is

[50:24] not

[50:25] >> is not.

[50:26] » is not.

[50:26] >> So that's separate. Those are capital

[50:27] » So that's separate. Those are capital

[50:27] funds, not operating funds. Okay. Um so

[50:30] we do have in there for the design of

[50:34] city hall and fire station.

[50:36] >> Uh library funding.

[50:39] » Uh library funding.

[50:39] I I stuck it on this list at the bottom

[50:42] um because we hadn't talked about that

[50:44] when staff did this ranking. So, it's on

[50:46] there as a consideration. But um

[50:48] >> but we're currently giving them what

[50:50] » but we're currently giving them what

[50:50] 48,000

[50:51] >> 49,000.

[50:52] » 49,000.

[50:52] >> And in total to all organizations, we

[50:55] » And in total to all organizations, we

[50:55] give 74. So, they make up

[50:59] >> two3.

[51:00] » two3.

[51:00] >> Are we going through all these funds or

[51:03] » Are we going through all these funds or

[51:03] we just kind of like picking stuff up?

[51:06] >> That's up to you. I think we got to go

[51:08] » That's up to you. I think we got to go

[51:08] with what the recommendation is on the

[51:10] priority list as far as

[51:12] >> I think the top three.

[51:13] » I think the top three.

[51:14] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[51:15] » Yeah. Yeah.

[51:15] >> Yeah.

[51:16] » Yeah.

[51:16] >> What about increasing?

[51:19] » What about increasing?

[51:19] Let's take the wreck.

[51:21] Um, you know, if you have major repairs

[51:24] at the wreck, the city will kick in

[51:26] money to help pay for

[51:30] major repair, right? Like a

[51:32] >> it's over HVAC system or something like

[51:35] » it's over HVAC system or something like

[51:35] that.

[51:35] >> Yeah. We're the landlords basically. I

[51:37] » Yeah. We're the landlords basically. I

[51:37] >> just wonder if we need to raise that up

[51:39] » just wonder if we need to raise that up

[51:39] a little bit more. I mean, do we have

[51:41] any do we know what do we know anything

[51:43] about their books?

[51:45] >> I do not.

[51:46] » I do not.

[51:46] >> Yeah. Are we entitled to

[51:48] » Yeah. Are we entitled to

[51:48] >> um I can request it?

[51:49] » um I can request it?

[51:49] >> I just wondered, you know, Miss Leslie.

[51:52] » I just wondered, you know, Miss Leslie.

[51:52] Uh and and guys, don't I love the wreck.

[51:55] I love the wreck. I love the library. I

[51:57] love all this stuff. Uh but like keep

[52:01] white house beautiful, we give $4,000

[52:04] with eight $18,000 500 balance in your

[52:09] books.

[52:10] >> Do we have Do we give to them every

[52:11] » Do we have Do we give to them every

[52:12] year?

[52:14] >> Oh, we do, but it's $3,000 or something.

[52:19] » Oh, we do, but it's $3,000 or something.

[52:19] >> Can we go through nine or nine and 10

[52:23] » Can we go through nine or nine and 10

[52:23] briefly?

[52:24] So the street condition assessment is

[52:29] does that set us up to understand our

[52:32] future uh maintenance cost?

[52:35] >> It would um we had a company TJ had a

[52:38] » It would um we had a company TJ had a

[52:38] company come come in and do a demo and I

[52:41] can show you what some of that reporting

[52:43] looks like. And while she's pulling that

[52:46] up, so when I first started on council,

[52:48] you you'll remember that we had we had

[52:50] to take out a loan because we had so

[52:52] many streets that needed repair because

[52:54] we didn't identify cracks which caused

[52:57] drainage under it and you wind up having

[52:59] to dig them up and resurface them.

[53:01] >> That one

[53:01] » That one

[53:01] >> being proactive.

[53:02] » being proactive.

[53:02] >> Just what's on there concerns me the way

[53:04] » Just what's on there concerns me the way

[53:04] that it's worded.

[53:06] >> So

[53:07] » So

[53:07] >> you talk about sil coat maybe preventive

[53:09] » you talk about sil coat maybe preventive

[53:09] maintenance.

[53:10] >> Exactly. when things are cracked, if

[53:12] » Exactly. when things are cracked, if

[53:12] water is getting under the surface and

[53:13] creating potholes.

[53:15] >> And then I for me the license plate

[53:17] » And then I for me the license plate

[53:17] readers like that's another one that's

[53:19] particularly

[53:21] >> I don't know but

[53:24] » I don't know but

[53:24] around schools particularly like I think

[53:27] that that's kind of a

[53:30] there are maps you can look at in places

[53:32] you don't want them to go. So

[53:36] [clears throat]

[53:37] >> um and the cost of this is actually less

[53:39] » um and the cost of this is actually less

[53:39] than is shown um on that sheet because

[53:44] they came in quite a bit cheaper than

[53:46] your first correct

[53:47] >> than the 60,000.

[53:49] » than the 60,000.

[53:49] >> Yes sir.

[53:49] » Yes sir.

[53:50] >> Even Tercon the other company that we

[53:52] » Even Tercon the other company that we

[53:52] did that's not them. They came in

[53:54] cheaper as well because they both have

[53:56] the automated vehicles

[53:57] >> that do it in brand was going to be

[53:59] » that do it in brand was going to be

[53:59] actually by

[54:01] >> like just the ballpark. What does that

[54:03] » like just the ballpark. What does that

[54:03] number go to?

[54:04] >> Uh believe quoted us for

[54:10] » Uh believe quoted us for

[54:10] 16,000 I believe

[54:11] >> plus a weight list orders of magnitude

[54:14] » plus a weight list orders of magnitude

[54:14] >> and on this company they're doing

[54:17] » and on this company they're doing

[54:17] believe for the what we did it'll be

[54:20] $270

[54:22] a mile

[54:23] and

[54:26] doing the math it's going to be probably

[54:27] close to about 16 as well.

[54:30] >> Wow.

[54:31] » Wow.

[54:31] >> And they are have already done a trial

[54:33] » And they are have already done a trial

[54:33] so we know what to expect out of this

[54:35] company. I don't speak for council, but

[54:38] that's one I would highly recommend

[54:41] moving out priority.

[54:43] >> So, we just say hypothetical situation,

[54:47] » So, we just say hypothetical situation,

[54:47] we were to move the rate to the 79

[54:50] number, how much we got to work do we

[54:51] have to work with on the wish list?

[54:55] >> Um, if you're talking about this one,

[54:58] » Um, if you're talking about this one,

[54:58] it would only be if you wanted to

[55:00] implement those first

[55:03] >> taser detective. Those first three that

[55:07] » taser detective. Those first three that

[55:07] would take you up to about 270

[55:13] in expenses

[55:16] about 30,000

[55:23] » and if we take it that high this year

[55:25] what does that do to us next year?

[55:28] >> It's hard to know um because the

[55:30] » It's hard to know um because the

[55:30] legislature will be in session. Um

[55:33] >> I would say chances are our property tax

[55:35] » I would say chances are our property tax

[55:35] roles will be

[55:38] about where they are now or lower even

[55:41] though we will have growth

[55:43] >> um because they're not done chopping

[55:45] » um because they're not done chopping

[55:45] away. And I don't know if those will go

[55:46] into effect in our next budget cycle. It

[55:49] depends on when they come into effect

[55:50] like the stuff that we're experiencing

[55:51] this year.

[55:53] >> Right. House 9 was

[55:55] » Right. House 9 was

[55:55] >> it was 2025.

[55:57] » it was 2025.

[55:57] >> It was 2025. But we had other

[55:59] » It was 2025. But we had other

[55:59] legislation that went in

[56:01] that was in the 2025 legislative session

[56:04] that went in prior to this year. So the

[56:06] increase in homestead exemptions for

[56:07] schools, some of those went in last

[56:09] year.

[56:10] >> So if we don't lose property tax on the

[56:12] » So if we don't lose property tax on the

[56:12] ROS this next year, it will be the in

[56:14] this budget year, the one we're deciding

[56:16] now will be the one after that at least.

[56:19] >> And how how conservative are we being in

[56:21] » And how how conservative are we being in

[56:21] our overall estimates on growing in the

[56:24] budget?

[56:25] >> That's a good question. So I followed

[56:27] » That's a good question. So I followed

[56:27] our trends right which said our

[56:29] statutory collection is about 90% of

[56:33] what actual collections are and

[56:35] budgeting at about 97%

[56:38] >> okay

[56:38] » okay

[56:38] >> of actual

[56:40] » of actual

[56:40] >> we were only wrong we were only

[56:42] » we were only wrong we were only

[56:42] overestimated one year that I saw

[56:44] history

[56:45] >> uh using using that rate

[56:47] » uh using using that rate

[56:47] >> and maybe there's another 1% we could do

[56:50] » and maybe there's another 1% we could do

[56:50] like maybe

[56:52] >> um

[56:53] » um

[56:53] I I don't know

[56:55] >> so what we could

[56:57] » so what we could

[56:57] Typically by January, February financial

[57:01] reports, end of February financial

[57:04] reports, we have a really good

[57:05] indication of how actual is comparing to

[57:07] budget on property tax revenue because

[57:09] the January 31st deadline. So what we

[57:12] could do is come back to you then and

[57:16] say, "Okay, here's what we budgeted.

[57:18] Here's what we actually collected." And

[57:19] if it's significantly different, you may

[57:21] have an opportunity to uh

[57:23] >> use fund balance at that point. Yeah.

[57:27] » use fund balance at that point. Yeah.

[57:27] brought some water in.

[57:31] » I mean, I looked at the street called

[57:33] Hanks the other day. Man, that Hanks is

[57:36] wow. It is It's kind of showing age.

[57:39] >> Uh business park drive is probably our

[57:41] » Uh business park drive is probably our

[57:41] worst.

[57:42] >> Is it in town?

[57:43] » Is it in town?

[57:43] >> Yeah, we had those prioritized. I think

[57:45] » Yeah, we had those prioritized. I think

[57:45] we did an assessment at some point.

[57:46] >> We did last year just um staff did it.

[57:50] » We did last year just um staff did it.

[57:50] Um but this that TJ was looking at.

[57:52] Let's see if I can get the password

[57:54] right. picking top three in the street.

[57:57] >> If not, I know in the email it the has

[58:00] » If not, I know in the email it the has

[58:00] the presentation which actually has our

[58:02] street.

[58:03] >> It won't be as detailed, but

[58:06] » It won't be as detailed, but

[58:06] >> it

[58:11] pretty

[58:15] much

[58:20] do the street assessment and the

[58:21] readers.

[58:25] I think I mean tools like that because

[58:27] we have limited staff even on the

[58:29] streets when it comes to police to be

[58:30] proactive and things I think it's a

[58:32] >> absolutely it's a great tool.

[58:35] » absolutely it's a great tool.

[58:35] >> What is all that? What's the green?

[58:37] » What is all that? What's the green?

[58:37] >> What are all those tags on?

[58:40] » What are all those tags on?

[58:40] >> It says alligator

[58:45] » okay.

[58:46] >> Yeah. [clears throat] That's the type of

[58:47] » Yeah. [clears throat] That's the type of

[58:47] stuff that winds up to seepage and

[58:49] erosion and you got to seal that.

[58:51] >> You wonder if we Well, we don't want to

[58:56] » You wonder if we Well, we don't want to

[58:56] have taken action earlier.

[58:58] >> I think

[59:02] » I think getting ahead of it this year,

[59:04] if legislation changes next year, we

[59:07] have to

[59:08] >> streets are improvements on a further

[59:10] » streets are improvements on a further

[59:10] decreased budget. And

[59:12] >> streets are one of those things that

[59:14] » streets are one of those things that

[59:14] after you let them go for a while,

[59:15] they're they're five times or 10 times

[59:18] more expensive to repair to replace than

[59:20] they are to repair.

[59:22] I wish I wish we could put that

[59:24] >> street [laughter]

[59:28] out there. You should have seen it in

[59:31] 2004.

[59:32] >> Yeah.

[59:33] » Yeah.

[59:33] >> Golly,

[59:34] » Golly,

[59:34] >> memory lane. Memory lane's getting

[59:36] » memory lane. Memory lane's getting

[59:36] pretty tough, too. So,

[59:38] >> and that's asphalt. So, if there's a way

[59:39] » and that's asphalt. So, if there's a way

[59:39] to start using concrete if that if the

[59:42] >> I mean, the price is closed now. It used

[59:44] » I mean, the price is closed now. It used

[59:44] to be a way it used to be way different.

[59:47] >> Yeah.

[59:47] » Yeah.

[59:47] >> But you can see here. So, that these are

[59:49] » But you can see here. So, that these are

[59:49] the streets that they did. Um the scores

[59:56] and just the level of data and detail is

[59:58] far beyond anything with photos.

[1:00:01] >> Those are just the top five the worst

[1:00:03] » Those are just the top five the worst

[1:00:03] ratings right there.

[1:00:04] >> Yeah.

[1:00:05] » Yeah.

[1:00:05] >> They also did uh because they wanted us

[1:00:07] » They also did uh because they wanted us

[1:00:07] to do ones that were in decent shape. So

[1:00:09] we did uh part of Forestdale and a few

[1:00:12] little areas that were in better shape

[1:00:14] so we can kind of see.

[1:00:16] >> Do we have a prioritization

[1:00:18] » Do we have a prioritization

[1:00:18] like that for the staff? you read my

[1:00:21] brain.

[1:00:21] >> So, if we adopt a few cuts and then we

[1:00:24] » So, if we adopt a few cuts and then we

[1:00:24] had a couple wish list items, is that a

[1:00:28] possibility for this discussion?

[1:00:30] >> Um, I didn't we didn't prioritize those

[1:00:32] » Um, I didn't we didn't prioritize those

[1:00:32] cuts when we were going through it. We

[1:00:34] were just cutting. Um, so we could we

[1:00:37] could prioritize them.

[1:00:39] >> Does anybody council object to that?

[1:00:41] » Does anybody council object to that?

[1:00:41] >> Yeah, I heard a couple of things in

[1:00:42] » Yeah, I heard a couple of things in

[1:00:42] there that are that are obvious. You

[1:00:44] know, if we're part of a membership that

[1:00:46] we don't engage with, stuff like that.

[1:00:47] But if there's anything that is a step

[1:00:50] backwards or prevents us from moving

[1:00:52] forward when engaging with our citizens,

[1:00:54] I think I think we should consider

[1:00:56] keeping them or anything that takes the

[1:00:57] load off of our our staff for doing

[1:01:00] their jobs.

[1:01:01] >> I think that's the responsible thing is

[1:01:03] » I think that's the responsible thing is

[1:01:03] look for cuts, look for opportunities.

[1:01:07] [clears throat]

[1:01:10] » I also like that it had the

[1:01:12] recommendation on the fix for these

[1:01:14] roadways, too.

[1:01:18] Yeah, my first year I think our roads

[1:01:20] budget was a pickup truck with some

[1:01:21] asphalt in the back and a shovel.

[1:01:23] >> Uh that's pretty much [laughter]

[1:01:25] » Uh that's pretty much [laughter]

[1:01:25] all it still is on an annual basis. Um

[1:01:30] it

[1:01:35] » is that something you really need to do

[1:01:37] annually? So that needs to be just put

[1:01:39] into budget.

[1:01:42] >> I I don't know. I mean I'm

[1:01:44] » I I don't know. I mean I'm

[1:01:44] >> once every five years. Well, you need to

[1:01:46] » once every five years. Well, you need to

[1:01:46] Oh, the assessment or the

[1:01:48] >> assessment.

[1:01:48] » assessment.

[1:01:48] >> The assessment I would say probably

[1:01:49] » The assessment I would say probably

[1:01:49] every five years depending on how much

[1:01:51] progress you're making.

[1:01:52] >> I think it's rare that they

[1:01:55] » I think it's rare that they

[1:01:55] >> but

[1:01:57] » but

[1:01:57] 252,000 of that is the Roseville project

[1:01:59] alone.

[1:02:02] So, um, when you look at actual

[1:02:06] roadway repairs,

[1:02:08] >> I believe the street drainage is 8,000

[1:02:12] » I believe the street drainage is 8,000

[1:02:12] if I'm not.

[1:02:14] >> Well, you've got 6,000 in contract

[1:02:16] » Well, you've got 6,000 in contract

[1:02:16] labor.

[1:02:19] » So, that's enough to buy a few cans of

[1:02:21] Flex Seal in here. You're

[1:02:23] >> exactly right.

[1:02:28] » 14,000 in this city. We're very

[1:02:30] fortunate. $14,000

[1:02:33] streets

[1:02:34] >> concrete last 30 years.

[1:02:41] » So,

[1:02:43] I don't know if other people are in

[1:02:45] agreement with the wish list items. I

[1:02:48] think this one's kind of run to the

[1:02:51] ground,

[1:02:52] but uh maybe the other one is the the

[1:02:56] license plate cameras and then flip over

[1:02:59] and look to maybe offset those two

[1:03:02] additional items. I mean, if you agree,

[1:03:06] >> I don't disagree without going backwards

[1:03:08] » I don't disagree without going backwards

[1:03:08] as far as

[1:03:09] >> to the extent possible. I agree.

[1:03:11] » to the extent possible. I agree.

[1:03:11] >> Yeah. If they've if the department has

[1:03:13] » Yeah. If they've if the department has

[1:03:13] identified their deepest cuts, then I'm

[1:03:17] not sure where that would come from,

[1:03:19] but I agree to adding those out. Can you

[1:03:22] can you pull back up the wish list?

[1:03:25] [clears throat]

[1:03:28] » 38 tabs.

[1:03:31] And just for the record, how much do we

[1:03:34] have in our rainy day for in reserves?

[1:03:37] >> So, we're at about I want to say 160

[1:03:40] » So, we're at about I want to say 160

[1:03:40] days of general fund balance.

[1:03:48] » So, you do have some potential to spend.

[1:03:50] So, if if we were to not get the Shenan

[1:03:53] Park grant, there are some things you

[1:03:56] could do out of fund balance for that.

[1:03:58] You really want to make sure those are

[1:03:59] for onetime expenditures.

[1:04:00] >> Yeah.

[1:04:02] » Yeah.

[1:04:02] >> So [clears throat] we're almost twice as

[1:04:03] » So [clears throat] we're almost twice as

[1:04:03] much as the recommended.

[1:04:06] >> 120 days would be the recommended.

[1:04:10] » Yeah.

[1:04:18] » Um

[1:04:22] » and where are the two that you're

[1:04:23] wanting to replace?

[1:04:24] >> We replace two. They're in service on

[1:04:25] » We replace two. They're in service on

[1:04:26] two of the apparatus, but they're

[1:04:27] they're all fire trucks.

[1:04:29] >> Yes, they're on the fire trucks. They're

[1:04:31] » Yes, they're on the fire trucks. They're

[1:04:31] they're they're reaching their their

[1:04:33] matur.

[1:04:37] » Is there a way to know when they're not

[1:04:38] going to work when you use them? Well,

[1:04:41] well, I mean, based on battery life, but

[1:04:43] when you're on, you know, the batteries

[1:04:45] last anywhere from 24 to 36 months, and

[1:04:48] when you have replaced them,

[1:04:51] >> um, three [snorts] and four times at the

[1:04:54] » um, three [snorts] and four times at the

[1:04:54] cost of an AED,

[1:04:57] uh, and then the recommended life cycle

[1:04:59] is about 10 years for

[1:05:02] [snorts]

[1:05:05] cheap on the license plate cameras.

[1:05:10] any concern with moving forward with

[1:05:12] that and any legislative or regulatory

[1:05:17] changes right now?

[1:05:18] >> Those are super hot topics right now.

[1:05:23] » Those are super hot topics right now.

[1:05:24] It uh it doesn't matter what if you're

[1:05:27] conservative or liberal, it is all over

[1:05:31] the place.

[1:05:35] The the one thing Well, I'll say two

[1:05:36] things. First of all, um, since getting

[1:05:39] that quote, the price has come down

[1:05:42] significantly.

[1:05:43] >> Oh, okay. That's a sign.

[1:05:45] » Oh, okay. That's a sign.

[1:05:45] >> Um,

[1:05:48] » Um,

[1:05:48] there under the contract, it's there's a

[1:05:52] immediate whatever legal term you want

[1:05:54] to put in, you can get out of the

[1:05:55] contract immediately.

[1:05:56] >> Okay.

[1:05:57] » Okay.

[1:05:57] >> There's a no fee fine for getting out of

[1:06:00] » There's a no fee fine for getting out of

[1:06:00] the contract. That's one of the main

[1:06:02] things.

[1:06:03] >> And the cost, it's just an annual

[1:06:05] » And the cost, it's just an annual

[1:06:05] operating cost. There's no capital cost.

[1:06:09] >> No, I think the first year is a little

[1:06:10] » No, I think the first year is a little

[1:06:10] bit more because of the equipment, but

[1:06:15] um

[1:06:16] last when I last went over all of this,

[1:06:20] they covered the cost of any damage to

[1:06:22] them. It's not something that we would

[1:06:24] have to pay for. There is that's not an

[1:06:27] immediate thing um because there's

[1:06:30] textile rules and last I heard it's

[1:06:33] taking six to nine months to get

[1:06:35] approval.

[1:06:37] >> So even with that

[1:06:40] » So even with that

[1:06:40] don't hold me on it. Uh talking with

[1:06:43] chiefs we're seeing that price is about

[1:06:46] a third of what it was. But even with

[1:06:50] that it would be something

[1:06:52] you know 10 months Now potentially when

[1:06:56] that actually gets started

[1:06:58] I'm sure they would based on our

[1:07:02] >> and you have it pretty far down on the

[1:07:04] » and you have it pretty far down on the

[1:07:04] priority list. Yeah to the far right

[1:07:07] just what the actual number

[1:07:09] >> the value in it

[1:07:11] » the value in it

[1:07:11] >> is very high

[1:07:15] » change

[1:07:16] >> I think it was like you just don't need

[1:07:17] » I think it was like you just don't need

[1:07:18] it very often

[1:07:18] >> you don't necessarily need it all the

[1:07:20] » you don't necessarily need it all the

[1:07:20] time

[1:07:23] » it's critical

[1:07:27] to the wild truck

[1:07:28] >> what if we phase them instead [snorts]

[1:07:31] » what if we phase them instead [snorts]

[1:07:31] >> of eight do you know do four this year

[1:07:33] » of eight do you know do four this year

[1:07:33] next Sure. I mean that that's not a

[1:07:35] problem. Um we we have of course our

[1:07:38] main

[1:07:40] we have the main two main roads and you

[1:07:43] need uh two in every direction

[1:07:47] basically to capture all the traffic.

[1:07:50] But for us our main thing is we want to

[1:07:52] know who's coming out because that's

[1:07:54] what we're working is the crimes the

[1:07:56] stolen people.

[1:07:57] >> Yeah. When they leave the city

[1:07:58] » Yeah. When they leave the city

[1:07:58] >> when they're leaving we're more

[1:07:59] » when they're leaving we're more

[1:07:59] concerned with that especially that the

[1:08:04] of the sound person. That's [snorts]

[1:08:07] that's our biggest concern. You can't

[1:08:09] put a number on

[1:08:10] >> or an Amber Alert like they got, you

[1:08:12] » or an Amber Alert like they got, you

[1:08:12] know, license plate.

[1:08:14] >> Would you rather have the truck or

[1:08:16] » Would you rather have the truck or

[1:08:16] additional firefight?

[1:08:18] >> Additional fire.

[1:08:20] » Additional fire.

[1:08:20] >> And looking at the cost of the cameras,

[1:08:22] » And looking at the cost of the cameras,

[1:08:22] it's we're halfway to another patrol

[1:08:25] officer with that, too.

[1:08:27] >> That's right.

[1:08:28] » That's right.

[1:08:28] >> I mean, the cameras are a onetime thing.

[1:08:30] » I mean, the cameras are a onetime thing.

[1:08:30] Probably not. I'm sure

[1:08:32] >> there is.

[1:08:33] » there is.

[1:08:33] >> Oh, per year. Okay.

[1:08:34] » Oh, per year. Okay.

[1:08:34] >> Yeah.

[1:08:34] » Yeah.

[1:08:34] >> So, with the cameras

[1:08:36] » So, with the cameras

[1:08:36] >> start third of the cost.

[1:08:38] » start third of the cost.

[1:08:38] >> So,

[1:08:39] » So,

[1:08:39] >> Oh, now it is. Right. Yeah, now it is.

[1:08:41] » Oh, now it is. Right. Yeah, now it is.

[1:08:41] Yeah.

[1:08:42] >> What do you think that is now, Chief?

[1:08:44] » What do you think that is now, Chief?

[1:08:44] >> Again, what I heard was uh they're about

[1:08:48] » Again, what I heard was uh they're about

[1:08:48] 3,000 a piece now.

[1:08:50] >> And I was getting quoted by eight.

[1:08:52] » And I was getting quoted by eight.

[1:08:52] >> The I will say just just for your

[1:08:55] » The I will say just just for your

[1:08:55] information since y'all are discussing

[1:08:58] what how we want to do the money.

[1:09:01] If uh

[1:09:04] if we add

[1:09:08] two more officers in one investigator,

[1:09:11] that allows us to have three people

[1:09:13] every patrol shift as our schedule.

[1:09:17] >> That's a big help in it.

[1:09:19] » That's a big help in it.

[1:09:19] >> That's what it that's what it is right

[1:09:20] » That's what it that's what it is right

[1:09:20] now. Without it, that means we'll have

[1:09:22] three shifts with three and one with

[1:09:23] two. That gets us to three per shift.

[1:09:27] >> That's if everybody's healthy.

[1:09:30] » That's if everybody's healthy.

[1:09:30] which

[1:09:31] >> you are aware of that those situations

[1:09:33] » you are aware of that those situations

[1:09:33] right now when when one's out

[1:09:36] it becomes one and they're outcomes

[1:09:40] over time

[1:09:41] >> I think we need to land on how much we

[1:09:43] » I think we need to land on how much we

[1:09:43] have to spend

[1:09:45] >> maybe

[1:09:48] » maybe

[1:09:48] >> go back to my cut

[1:09:51] » go back to my cut

[1:09:51] >> did you want

[1:09:52] » did you want

[1:09:52] >> you know if we're in agreement that

[1:09:53] » you know if we're in agreement that

[1:09:54] we're going to have to move on the taxes

[1:09:55] in some form or fashion

[1:09:58] and I think Sounds like we are. We just

[1:10:00] got to figure out what that number is

[1:10:01] and how much we have to work with before

[1:10:03] we can

[1:10:05] realistically talk about

[1:10:09] >> Yeah. I'd like to start with basically

[1:10:11] » Yeah. I'd like to start with basically

[1:10:12] budget what we need and then that will

[1:10:15] give us an idea of where the taxes need

[1:10:16] to move to.

[1:10:17] >> Right.

[1:10:18] » Right.

[1:10:18] >> So I mean that's that might be exactly

[1:10:20] » So I mean that's that might be exactly

[1:10:20] what you said.

[1:10:21] >> Yeah.

[1:10:21] » Yeah.

[1:10:22] >> Yeah. But only two officers

[1:10:25] » Yeah. But only two officers

[1:10:25] would um

[1:10:27] not give you any wiggle room but put you

[1:10:29] exactly where you are when you need to

[1:10:31] be.

[1:10:32] >> Having three per shift is

[1:10:36] » Having three per shift is

[1:10:36] where we need to be.

[1:10:37] >> Yeah.

[1:10:38] » Yeah.

[1:10:38] >> Um and I, you know, at the rate that

[1:10:41] » Um and I, you know, at the rate that

[1:10:41] we're growing, I think we'd be good for

[1:10:43] quite a while with that.

[1:10:46] >> But with two, there's just a lot that

[1:10:49] » But with two, there's just a lot that

[1:10:49] comes with that.

[1:10:52] sick vacation,

[1:10:54] one call to the jail, you know, they're

[1:10:56] gone for two hours

[1:10:57] >> for drop off. Yeah.

[1:10:58] » for drop off. Yeah.

[1:10:58] >> Uh there's just a lot that goes into

[1:11:00] » Uh there's just a lot that goes into

[1:11:00] that where we we have a we don't have to

[1:11:02] talk about it, but there's a lot of

[1:11:04] times there's just one officer in the

[1:11:06] whole city.

[1:11:07] >> So, should we consider three?

[1:11:10] » So, should we consider three?

[1:11:10] >> What what's up there is the investigator

[1:11:13] » What what's up there is the investigator

[1:11:13] and two officers will make it work. that

[1:11:15] that provides street per shift

[1:11:18] >> just like when the red lights are are

[1:11:20] » just like when the red lights are are

[1:11:20] out of electricity.

[1:11:22] >> The complaints the other day where the

[1:11:24] » The complaints the other day where the

[1:11:24] police

[1:11:25] >> they don't understand that

[1:11:29] » they don't understand that

[1:11:29] >> there's three intersections out.

[1:11:30] » there's three intersections out.

[1:11:30] >> Yeah.

[1:11:31] » Yeah.

[1:11:31] >> You got one of these covered feel like

[1:11:34] » You got one of these covered feel like

[1:11:34] we'll have all kinds of calls coming in

[1:11:36] the

[1:11:37] >> from the tax assessor.

[1:11:39] » from the tax assessor.

[1:11:39] >> What we have now is all we're going to

[1:11:40] » What we have now is all we're going to

[1:11:40] get

[1:11:42] >> before we make a decision.

[1:11:44] » before we make a decision.

[1:11:44] >> Well,

[1:11:45] » Well,

[1:11:45] We'll we'll get the final number before

[1:11:48] if we push out the date that we decide

[1:11:49] to make that.

[1:11:51] >> Yeah, that's

[1:11:52] » Yeah, that's

[1:11:52] >> we're not going to get any more

[1:11:53] » we're not going to get any more

[1:11:53] additional information.

[1:11:54] >> So, if we didn't make a decision on the

[1:11:55] » So, if we didn't make a decision on the

[1:11:56] 10th, we pushed it out a week.

[1:11:59] >> What I think what that would allow is

[1:12:01] » What I think what that would allow is

[1:12:01] for staff to go back and prioritize

[1:12:02] those cuts.

[1:12:03] >> Yeah. let us tell you where we are and

[1:12:06] » Yeah. let us tell you where we are and

[1:12:06] then we can really kind of set that line

[1:12:08] of this rate would get top three, this

[1:12:12] rate would get four, this would get you

[1:12:13] to five, you know, on this priority

[1:12:16] list.

[1:12:17] >> We can do that now that we have some

[1:12:18] » We can do that now that we have some

[1:12:18] direction from you all. I did not want

[1:12:20] to come out with saying, you know, here

[1:12:22] are all these things without knowing

[1:12:23] where the council wanted to go.

[1:12:26] >> I think that's that should be the plan.

[1:12:27] » I think that's that should be the plan.

[1:12:27] Okay.

[1:12:28] >> So, with the cuts, can we go ahead and

[1:12:30] » So, with the cuts, can we go ahead and

[1:12:30] say now no to certain cuts?

[1:12:32] >> Sure. We can do whatever.

[1:12:36] » Sure. We can do whatever.

[1:12:36] >> Um, real quick on this page, is it

[1:12:39] » Um, real quick on this page, is it

[1:12:39] beneficial to to do something that's not

[1:12:43] really a formal vote, but just run

[1:12:45] through quickly in the top 10 and have

[1:12:48] council with a yes or a no just on

[1:12:51] whether or not they make the the

[1:12:53] budgetary.

[1:12:54] >> Yeah. To see which one we're unanimous

[1:12:56] » Yeah. To see which one we're unanimous

[1:12:56] on at least, right?

[1:12:57] >> Yeah. Exactly. So 133 I think we're

[1:13:00] » Yeah. Exactly. So 133 I think we're

[1:13:00] >> Yeah. And the cuts.

[1:13:02] » Yeah. And the cuts.

[1:13:02] >> Yeah.

[1:13:04] » Yeah.

[1:13:04] can't go.

[1:13:04] >> I think one through three.

[1:13:08] » I think one through three.

[1:13:08] I don't want to speak for Were we good?

[1:13:10] One through three.

[1:13:11] >> Yeah,

[1:13:11] » Yeah,

[1:13:11] >> I think so.

[1:13:12] » I think so.

[1:13:12] >> Okay.

[1:13:13] » Okay.

[1:13:13] >> With the road assessment.

[1:13:15] » With the road assessment.

[1:13:15] >> Yeah.

[1:13:15] » Yeah.

[1:13:15] >> And the road street condition.

[1:13:19] » And the road street condition.

[1:13:19] >> We want to move that.

[1:13:20] » We want to move that.

[1:13:20] >> Does everybody agree with that?

[1:13:22] » Does everybody agree with that?

[1:13:22] >> Yeah.

[1:13:24] » Yeah.

[1:13:24] >> I'm asking you guys are the ones that

[1:13:26] » I'm asking you guys are the ones that

[1:13:26] need it.

[1:13:30] There's a huge price tag difference.

[1:13:32] There's a huge cost difference between

[1:13:34] what I would consider a priority and

[1:13:35] staff work. We worked collectively to

[1:13:38] come up with this

[1:13:39] >> prioritization.

[1:13:41] » prioritization.

[1:13:41] [clears throat]

[1:13:41] >> Um and and from my my standpoint on the

[1:13:44] » Um and and from my my standpoint on the

[1:13:44] fire department staffing issue is the

[1:13:47] most critical.

[1:13:48] >> Okay.

[1:13:48] » Okay.

[1:13:48] >> And it's going to continue to get more

[1:13:50] » And it's going to continue to get more

[1:13:50] critical as time goes on because we we

[1:13:54] have grown the fire department but maybe

[1:13:57] Now, not at a rate the city's growing.

[1:14:00] >> You got you got three on the pump now,

[1:14:01] » You got you got three on the pump now,

[1:14:02] don't you?

[1:14:03] >> Yes,

[1:14:03] » Yes,

[1:14:03] >> I understand and agree with that. But

[1:14:06] » I understand and agree with that. But

[1:14:06] from a pure budgetary standpoint, this

[1:14:10] is kind of like a a risk assessment. So,

[1:14:12] for future years, if there's any major

[1:14:15] infrastructure projects that are going

[1:14:16] to have to get budgeted in, this allows

[1:14:19] us to get ahead of next year's the

[1:14:22] following year's rate in my opinion. So,

[1:14:25] that's the main reason assessment

[1:14:29] [snorts] priorization

[1:14:30] >> on the road.

[1:14:31] » on the road.

[1:14:31] >> Yeah.

[1:14:32] » Yeah.

[1:14:32] >> Well, on that note, we've got one that's

[1:14:34] » Well, on that note, we've got one that's

[1:14:34] been assessed as needs repair.

[1:14:37] >> So, if we're justifying funding and

[1:14:39] » So, if we're justifying funding and

[1:14:39] assessment, we should probably repair

[1:14:41] the one that was assessed as

[1:14:42] >> we can go through the

[1:14:45] » we can go through the

[1:14:45] number eight, memory lane. So,

[1:14:50] » police investigator

[1:14:51] >> memory lane got

[1:14:54] » memory lane got

[1:14:54] >> So, four did we uh Were we unanimous on

[1:14:58] » So, four did we uh Were we unanimous on

[1:14:58] four?

[1:15:00] >> Yes. And it was the investigator and the

[1:15:03] » Yes. And it was the investigator and the

[1:15:03] patrol officer that get you where you

[1:15:05] needed to be. Or did you need number six

[1:15:06] as well?

[1:15:07] >> I recalculated because I do all these

[1:15:09] » I recalculated because I do all these

[1:15:09] numbers over in my head here. Um,

[1:15:12] if we have what's equivalent to 22

[1:15:15] staff, which is an investigator and an

[1:15:17] officer that puts three per shift plus

[1:15:19] five SRO.

[1:15:20] >> Okay. So number number six

[1:15:22] » Okay. So number number six

[1:15:22] >> number six. Really?

[1:15:24] » number six. Really?

[1:15:24] >> No.

[1:15:24] » No.

[1:15:24] >> No, it's a no. That's a no. So, can you

[1:15:26] » No, it's a no. That's a no. So, can you

[1:15:26] please note in there, Leslie, that uh

[1:15:29] what about the additional

[1:15:31] No offense, Chief, but we got to think

[1:15:33] we need to share the love between the

[1:15:35] fire department and police.

[1:15:41] » So, if we got the additional

[1:15:44] firefighter teeth, where are we getting?

[1:15:47] Well, when we look at national when we

[1:15:48] look at national standards, which is

[1:15:50] what we strive for at as a city based on

[1:15:54] national standards, our population, we

[1:15:55] should have seven firefighters on duty.

[1:15:59] >> And we currently have three on duty at

[1:16:01] » And we currently have three on duty at

[1:16:01] all times. Four

[1:16:02] >> with some part-time personnel.

[1:16:05] » with some part-time personnel.

[1:16:05] >> We have been at three firefighters on

[1:16:06] » We have been at three firefighters on

[1:16:06] duty since 2013. Now, we've made giant

[1:16:09] strides in growing the fire department

[1:16:11] in terms of transitioning part-time help

[1:16:14] into to full-time capacity. And that's

[1:16:17] part of been the evolution and the

[1:16:19] infancy of the of the fire department.

[1:16:21] Call volumes of greet increase uh

[1:16:24] exponentially. Uh in the last six years,

[1:16:27] our call volume has has doubled from in

[1:16:29] the low 600s to the low 1000s the last

[1:16:32] couple years close to,200 calls to

[1:16:36] service. So as we

[1:16:40] the biggest critical in the gap as far

[1:16:42] as a safety is that a lot of times when

[1:16:44] we have three people on duty and we have

[1:16:47] a medical call that requires two people

[1:16:49] to go on

[1:16:51] >> then that leaves one person behind at

[1:16:52] » then that leaves one person behind at

[1:16:52] the station to run the first next house

[1:16:54] fire the next cardiac arrest the next

[1:16:57] any kind of call. So for firefighter

[1:16:59] safety first of all I think it's

[1:17:00] paramount that we always work in pairs

[1:17:02] and typically that's how the fire

[1:17:04] service works. Um, and so from a safety

[1:17:08] standpoint, then you look at

[1:17:10] operationally how much more effective

[1:17:12] four

[1:17:14] is on the fire ground or in rescue

[1:17:16] operations than three, which in turn

[1:17:19] circles back around to firefighter

[1:17:21] safety as well. So, um, I think the

[1:17:25] long-term goal is to get four per shift,

[1:17:27] and I think we can operate like that

[1:17:30] well with our partners that we're going

[1:17:32] to have automatic and mutual aid with.

[1:17:34] Um, but it's the point of getting to the

[1:17:37] to that, right?

[1:17:38] >> And some of that wouldn't be necessarily

[1:17:40] » And some of that wouldn't be necessarily

[1:17:40] the full cost that you see here because

[1:17:42] we currently supplement with part-time

[1:17:44] employees. So, we are paying for

[1:17:47] coverage for some of those hours. And

[1:17:49] so, that's what this note really means

[1:17:50] here is that transitioning that

[1:17:53] position, that coverage from part-time

[1:17:56] to full-time. Um, we still right now

[1:17:59] don't have four per shift on all shifts

[1:18:01] even with supplementing with part time.

[1:18:03] So there's a little bit of nuance in

[1:18:05] trying

[1:18:13] » Yeah, that seems like maybe if we could

[1:18:15] focus in on what that actual number is

[1:18:16] and I'd imagine it's the same case with

[1:18:18] the additional patrol officer. There's

[1:18:20] [clears throat] some overtime coming

[1:18:21] from the other patrol officers when

[1:18:23] somebody's out sick or something like

[1:18:24] that, right?

[1:18:25] >> Yeah. It's not I wouldn't say super

[1:18:27] » Yeah. It's not I wouldn't say super

[1:18:27] significant.

[1:18:30] >> I mean, one of the advantages to to do

[1:18:32] » I mean, one of the advantages to to do

[1:18:32] some offsets, the idea is to get four

[1:18:35] four firefighters on duty at all time

[1:18:37] for all the reasons we talked about

[1:18:40] the

[1:18:40] >> 17 or 18.

[1:18:42] » 17 or 18.

[1:18:42] >> The option to that is when we do have

[1:18:45] » The option to that is when we do have

[1:18:45] one of our full-time personnel vacation

[1:18:48] for six, we would keep our minimum

[1:18:50] staffing to three.

[1:18:52] >> So, we would work down to three. thus

[1:18:55] » So, we would work down to three. thus

[1:18:55] saving those overtimes for replacement.

[1:18:59] >> Chief, what about insurance rates?

[1:19:02] » Chief, what about insurance rates?

[1:19:02] >> Does that matter? Um, you know, class

[1:19:04] » Does that matter? Um, you know, class

[1:19:04] one fire department.

[1:19:07] >> Our current ISO is a four.

[1:19:10] » Our current ISO is a four.

[1:19:10] >> Uh, we're working with ISO currently

[1:19:13] » Uh, we're working with ISO currently

[1:19:13] citywide for that that rating. I do

[1:19:15] anticipate an improvement, but ISO no

[1:19:19] longer really has any significant uh

[1:19:22] bearing on insurance premiums locally.

[1:19:24] It's done by the agents and the industry

[1:19:28] because the technology and data

[1:19:30] collection is much more precise than

[1:19:32] ISO.

[1:19:34] ISO does show that a city's doing all

[1:19:36] the right things uh to make it a safer

[1:19:38] and better place.

[1:19:42] on five and six. I'm a know.

[1:19:47] [snorts]

[1:19:49] >> So I don't know about the rest of

[1:19:51] » So I don't know about the rest of

[1:19:51] council intact. Just

[1:20:00] » Yeah. From what I hearing, uh the the

[1:20:02] ones we put a yes on for police and

[1:20:04] fire, we get them to where they need to

[1:20:07] be.

[1:20:09] Well, it would get

[1:20:11] >> Yeah. Police for sure. Firefighter.

[1:20:15] » Yeah. Police for sure. Firefighter.

[1:20:15] >> Oh, we're not doing five.

[1:20:17] » Oh, we're not doing five.

[1:20:17] >> Oh, you said for five and six. No,

[1:20:19] » Oh, you said for five and six. No,

[1:20:19] >> I based on what I think I was hearing.

[1:20:23] » I based on what I think I was hearing.

[1:20:23] >> He was saying

[1:20:23] » He was saying

[1:20:23] >> there's already one uh three. So, if we

[1:20:27] » there's already one uh three. So, if we

[1:20:27] add the firefighter and number three,

[1:20:32] right, that gets us to three full-time

[1:20:35] employees

[1:20:36] >> per two out of three shifts.

[1:20:38] » per two out of three shifts.

[1:20:38] >> Two out of three shifts. Not three out

[1:20:40] » Two out of three shifts. Not three out

[1:20:40] of three shifts.

[1:20:42] >> Okay. So, it's worse than a

[1:20:44] » Okay. So, it's worse than a

[1:20:44] >> Okay, then

[1:20:46] » Okay, then

[1:20:46] on five.

[1:20:47] >> I'm glad.

[1:20:47] » I'm glad.

[1:20:47] >> I'm sorry.

[1:20:49] » I'm sorry.

[1:20:49] >> Yeah, that's

City Council - Aug 07 2026

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