[0:44] Is that right?

[1:05] Yeah, nice thing about

[1:19] » I don't see Any

[1:22] interest?

[1:47] I guess she emailed me.

[2:38] You were the brave stood.

[2:46] My wife

[2:50] absolutely

[3:15] I think it's important.

[3:28] Okay,

[3:30] we'll call to order.

[3:32] See if I'm

[3:36] We'll call to order

[3:39] this August 20th meeting of the Woodland

[3:42] Planning Commission. And we will start

[3:45] with the pledge of allegiance.

[4:11] All right.

[4:14] Take roll call.

[4:17] >> Commissioner Matson

[4:19] >> Commissioner Watt

[4:21] >> Commissioner Lewis

[4:23] >> Commissioner Simpson

[4:25] >> here.

[4:28] Commissioner Red has not arrived yet.

[4:32] >> Um

[4:34] I don't know if this is like cancelled.

[4:36] Do we need a vote to excuse her?

[4:39] So let's go ahead and um somebody make a

[4:43] motion.

[4:48] » All right. Motion's been made and

[4:49] seconded.

[4:52] All those in favor? Hi. All right.

[4:56] This time,

[4:59] one of the most important

[5:02] things of our meeting is um citizen for

[5:06] communication for items not on the

[5:09] agenda.

[5:11] You have anything.

[5:22] I as well

[5:26] » I move that

[5:28] [laughter]

[5:30] >> second.

[5:33] » All right. All right.

[5:38] » So, um,

[5:40] next thing would be agenda approval.

[5:43] >> I move that we approve the agenda as

[5:46] presented.

[5:48] >> Discussion.

[5:51] I have some you know, on this agenda is

[5:54] an action item for our

[5:57] um

[6:00] code enforcement stuff and if we're not

[6:03] ready to take action, we can table it at

[6:06] that time. Okay, just so everybody's

[6:09] aware.

[6:11] All right, so

[6:13] we don't have to roll call that vote.

[6:17] >> I am not. I'm just I want everybody to

[6:20] be satisfied.

[6:23] Do we need to call that vote out?

[6:36] » Are there any objections?

[6:37] >> Anybody object?

[6:39] >> No.

[6:40] >> All those in favor of the agenda as

[6:42] presented?

[6:44] >> All right,

[6:46] enough of the books. All right, we are

[6:50] on to workshopping

[6:52] the retooling our code which is going to

[6:55] result in ordinance 1606

[6:59] and

[7:01] >> actually

[7:03] >> oh shoot I'm sorry thank you

[7:07] always love being corrected um so

[7:11] September meeting

[7:15] we uh Travis is going to be out of town

[7:20] on the 17th and 18th. And

[7:25] we

[7:29] can either move it

[7:32] or

[7:36] cancel it

[7:38] which at this time

[7:40] we don't have any really any heavy duty

[7:43] projects once we finish the retooling

[7:46] our code.

[7:48] Um

[7:50] I think everything would be like

[7:52] formative stuff and we are in compliance

[7:55] with the state so far on how many

[7:57] meetings we have. So

[8:01] um

[8:03] we're workshopping.

[8:05] I think we should move it to

[8:15] I mean unless you have any driving

[8:17] concerns.

[8:26] » Yeah. No long pants next month.

[8:30] >> Okay. So, um

[8:34] That seems to be a good consensus.

[8:38] We need to take action on that or just

[8:41] that's what we've agreed to do and that

[8:44] workshop is over. See how easy this is?

[8:48] >> So you have an unrealistic idea how the

[8:51] rest of this goes to work.

[8:55] >> So move to cancel the meeting on the

[8:57] 17th.

[9:00] So, as a workshop, you don't have to

[9:03] take action. It's your opportunity to

[9:05] direct staff to do stuff.

[9:10] » Okay,

[9:13] we're all in agreement. We're not having

[9:15] a September meeting.

[9:17] Change your calendar, Dave.

[9:22] [laughter]

[9:26] Okay.

[9:29] So, um,

[9:32] that means we're moving into our

[9:34] workshop on ordinance6006, retooling our

[9:37] code that I brought up earlier. And, um,

[9:41] we've got,

[9:44] do you want to do staff report here,

[9:45] Travis? Is that the best thing to do or

[9:48] Sure.

[9:50] >> Um, so for the record, my name is Travis

[9:52] Goddard, community development director

[9:54] for the city of Woodland. And um we have

[9:57] had a couple workshops on these um code

[10:01] changes over the last several months.

[10:03] And there was one change that was

[10:06] requested at the last meeting. And um it

[10:10] is outlined here on the um cover letter.

[10:15] And I will quickly scroll down to the

[10:17] code sections. And specifically the

[10:20] issues that have been brought up is um

[10:23] the issue of

[10:26] uh including in our nuisance language

[10:29] basketball hoops in the streets and

[10:31] blocking sidewalks and the issue

[10:34] associated with odors and making it

[10:37] clear that that odors um will be

[10:41] something that's pursued by code

[10:42] enforcement. And the issue that was

[10:45] brought up was the desire to make sure

[10:47] that the language does not include food

[10:52] preparation. So like whether it's

[10:55] Daddy's De's barbecue or a food truck or

[10:58] a restaurant that just because you can

[11:00] smell it next door, it doesn't

[11:02] necessarily means it's

[11:04] >> that means the neighbor's trigger.

[11:06] >> Yeah.

[11:07] >> Right.

[11:08] >> So So there are two sections where we

[11:11] added that in there and in this case um

[11:14] as identified here we just added a

[11:17] sentence that says, "This shall not

[11:18] apply to odors caused by the preparation

[11:21] of food in a residential or commercial

[11:24] circumstance." So, unless you have some

[11:27] language changes for that, it's pretty

[11:30] straightforward. I think

[11:31] >> I'll take this I'll take this moment,

[11:34] Mike, to answer your question about is

[11:37] there anyone

[11:39] background? So, the background on this

[11:41] is um there is a company in town that

[11:46] makes um

[11:48] fertilizer for the grow industry. And

[11:52] they had a um centriuge evaporator,

[11:57] centrifical evaporator that basically

[12:00] was supposed to cook the water out of

[12:03] the other wash down chemicals. It was it

[12:07] was everything they were washing down.

[12:08] So it wasn't just the fertilizer. It was

[12:10] wash down chemicals with the fertilizer.

[12:13] And it um

[12:16] had quite the odor. I'm sure you've

[12:18] smelled it. And it was um really

[12:22] important to me because I was losing

[12:23] business at my business because of it as

[12:27] well. And so and we don't know about the

[12:31] health implications from it. Our old

[12:35] code said that

[12:40] Southwest Washington Clean Air

[12:43] uh was was responsible for

[12:46] and

[12:49] whatever code

[12:51] Washington deemed was the one that would

[12:53] be enforced. So even though we had a

[12:56] code that said you keep your smell on

[12:58] your property,

[13:01] Southwest Washington, it was arbitrary,

[13:02] they could come out and say, "Well, it's

[13:04] bad, but it's not bad enough to and that

[13:07] was what was happening." And they

[13:08] blatantly said they don't enforce

[13:10] anybody else's code. So yes, I'm 150

[13:13] yards away and I s it, but we don't

[13:17] So that's the background to the need for the

[13:23] change in the first place. And so it has

[13:26] been removed from one of the basically

[13:29] three pieces of code

[13:32] that still refer to clean air for us to

[13:36] have them help us with. But odors is not

[13:42] and it was true and I think reasonably

[13:44] brought up but

[13:45] We don't want somebody putting, you

[13:48] know, restaurants been here for 20 years

[13:50] out of business because they don't like

[13:51] the smell or the

[13:54] vegans complaining about the neighbor

[13:56] cooking st. So that's where

[13:59] um that idea for doesn't apply to food

[14:02] preparation comes into play. And

[14:07] hopefully that takes care of that.

[14:21] after

[14:23] Brea came on board and Brea

[14:27] really

[14:28] stayed on them and they figured out that

[14:30] they're not going to be able to they

[14:34] were just not honest about oh we're

[14:36] doing this and we're doing that. After

[14:38] Brea came on board they figured out that

[14:39] this is going to start getting serious

[14:41] and uh they replace the machine with a

[14:44] different process. So the machine's

[14:47] gone, the odor's gone. And

[14:50] unfortunately, the people from Clean Air

[14:52] told me that they didn't have any way to

[14:56] tell

[14:57] what kind of emissions were in that

[15:00] plume.

[15:01] They just knew it was a plume. And the

[15:04] permit actually was um originated

[15:08] because they needed to burn so much

[15:10] natural gas to run that machine. It was

[15:12] for the carbon dioxide. The permit was

[15:15] for carbon dioxide and steam which are

[15:18] both odorless. So

[15:21] anyway, that's the whole and I mean and

[15:24] that's from back in

[15:27] 2022

[15:29] probably that got started. So it was a

[15:32] long

[15:33] road. I wasn't on the planning

[15:35] commission back then. Um,

[15:38] so now that's the background and here we

[15:40] are.

[16:20] Whatever. Somebody's complain about

[16:26] whatever if because it's complaint

[16:28] driven. So it'll just depend on if I

[16:31] receive a complaint about something else

[16:35] like I did get a complaint about a

[16:38] septic smell and I got the joy of

[16:43] smelling it and sure enough

[16:47] had like cracked. So

[17:05] » we're workshopping. Go ahead.

[17:10] [laughter]

[17:15] That's Yeah, that's good.

[17:22] Mhm.

[17:37] » Yeah.

[18:19] I've been smelling the dog food plant a

[18:21] little bit more. I think that's what it

[18:23] is.

[18:24] >> You think the dog food plant kind of

[18:25] depends on the weather. And so they got kind of a free pass for the

[18:30] longest time because so PDM I was buying

[18:32] steel at PDM next door and it was

[18:35] horrible and I said, "Doesn't that smell

[18:38] bug you?" And they said, "Oh, it's just

[18:40] a dog food plant. They've always been

[18:42] there. I'm like, look at the look at the

[18:44] wind. Look at the steam. The wind is

[18:47] going away from the dog food plant.

[18:48] That's not the dog food plant. You have

[18:50] any idea what you're breathing? You

[18:53] know, and I was about to to the point of

[18:56] contacting the the safety directors for

[18:59] Lifeport and the other businesses and

[19:01] saying, "Hey, you know, this is what

[19:03] this is and you're responsible for your

[19:06] employees health and what they're

[19:08] breathing, even if it's from the

[19:10] neighbors. you know it's it's up but

[19:12] fortunately

[19:15] it one day the machine just got removed.

[19:18] So,

[19:20] um

[19:22] any comments there, questions?

[19:27] So, um

[19:30] at the last meeting

[19:33] I talked about when we got down into

[19:36] like 19, right? enforcements in 19

[19:39] chapter 19

[19:43] and uh

[19:50] go ahead and go on down there. Stop.

[19:56] Um

[20:02] I guess so

[20:05] I had asked about uh turning some of the

[20:08] maze into shs

[20:11] on, you know, where especially when it

[20:14] comes to uh development code stuff.

[20:23] Um it's not what is in there? But I'd

[20:26] asked about it and it kind of got

[20:27] sidelined

[20:32] where it says that the um

[20:44] shall be

[20:51] I like the idea.

[20:54] discussion.

[20:55] >> So, I I like the idea of giving staff a

[20:57] little discretion, too. But what about

[20:59] when it comes to um the environmental

[21:02] code?

[21:04] >> That's where

[21:09] I just

[21:17] find

[21:24] Okay.

[21:28] » I Right.

[21:30] So,

[21:33] >> I don't think

[21:34] >> that's not what I'm thinking of at all.

[21:35] And that's not um

[21:38] even covered in our environmental code.

[21:41] That's covered in our nuisance code.

[21:43] Okay.

[21:44] >> I'll just say this really quick. I mean,

[21:47] currently, how it is written, I've had

[21:50] no problem

[21:52] getting the job done and enforcing when

[21:55] needed. And I don't know if it really is

[21:59] that

[22:01] important to go through and change that

[22:04] one little word. I I know I'm going to

[22:06] enforce it.

[22:07] >> Okay. So,

[22:08] >> but I do like the flexibility of working

[22:11] with

[22:11] >> if you if you go so far with something

[22:14] and then you you hit a wall,

[22:17] then it goes on to the director, right?

[22:20] the responsible official

[22:22] >> they start

[22:23] >> 1990 12

[22:24] >> they start getting penalties and fines

[22:27] and then you take a lean out that's

[22:33] » correct

[22:34] >> so we had Mike Laboki in here for his

[22:39] reaver zone request he wasn't here the

[22:42] first time but he was out of compliance

[22:44] on those properties with parking trucks

[22:48] selling truck parking and not

[22:52] um having any of the storm water

[22:55] permitted, no separators, no nothing.

[22:58] So, he wasn't at the first meeting. So,

[23:01] at the second meeting, I sat here and

[23:03] told him, "You got to have the storm

[23:06] water done. You got to have permits

[23:08] before you open a business there. Before

[23:10] you start parking trucks, you can't let

[23:12] that stuff end up in the storm water."

[23:16] and he's advertising. Are you aware of

[23:19] this?

[23:20] >> Yes.

[23:20] >> He's advertising storage on Craigslist

[23:25] and there's trucks there and signs and

[23:28] everything. So,

[23:32] » yes.

[23:35] So, there's no there's

[23:37] >> there's no there's no occupancy pyramid.

[23:39] Correct.

[23:39] >> And that's correct. And it's final

[23:42] engineering. I'm expecting that. So,

[23:45] >> don't we the engineering and the work

[23:48] and then open for business.

[23:50] >> Yes, that's supposed to occur.

[23:54] >> How are we to get

[23:56] things to occur how they're supposed to

[23:58] occur? But we change

[24:02] 199120.

[24:08] » Well, we need to

[24:22] So, and so this is not this is not

[24:25] somebody's nuisance. This is not

[24:27] somebody's yard. This is not some this

[24:29] is a a blatant

[24:32] u ignor ignoring our development code.

[24:36] Just blatantly ignoring the code and and

[24:39] figuring that apologies cheaper than

[24:42] asking.

[24:44] So, I did start a code enforcement case

[24:48] and I reached out to him and his

[24:50] engineer and his sister and I sent an

[24:54] email saying, "Hello, we're still

[24:56] waiting for payment on your fence permit

[24:58] that you've already built." And I'm

[25:02] curious what's going on with the storing

[25:04] of trucks in that parking area as that

[25:09] has not even been approved yet. And I

[25:14] immediately got a bunch of invoices paid

[25:18] for from him, which is a start, but he

[25:22] did not touch on that other he was out

[25:25] of town. So I was kind of waiting for

[25:27] him to get back to go. I didn't know.

[25:30] Did you agreement with Mike that I was

[25:32] unaware of. I don't want to just start

[25:34] doing stuff before I have all the

[25:35] details. And so that's where we're at

[25:38] right now.

[25:52] » A month.

[25:54] >> Yeah.

[25:56] So um

[26:07] it's not

[26:10] that

[26:17] » I when I don't know when you live

[26:21] downstream from it you're more aware of

[26:25] And then you wonder where it's h where

[26:27] else is it happening, you know, but the fact of the matter is if they park

[26:33] something in there that's loaded with a

[26:35] liquid and it leaks, it's going to end

[26:39] up in the waterway that goes to

[26:40] neighbors properties.

[26:44] >> No.

[26:49] » Yeah. And anyway, that's where um if we

[26:53] don't change this May to a shall what

[26:58] can we do for for these things for them

[27:00] to be you know

[27:05] and and and just in my you know I know a

[27:07] lot of people have complained about

[27:09] things that have gone on on the sand

[27:11] pile and you know just the neglect for

[27:15] our code there and you know I don't see

[27:19] everything I know what I see in my

[27:21] neighborhoods and what I see in my

[27:23] neighborhood neighborhoods is Jeffrey's,

[27:26] you know, running them up and doing

[27:28] things that they're not permitted for a long time. And so what do we do to

[27:32] shake their boots?

[27:34] So

[27:37] I don't know that we need any additional

[27:39] code changes for that. Part of it is our

[27:42] philosophy has always been if they're

[27:45] taking steps to get into compliance,

[27:48] typically we don't. But there are some

[27:51] cases where If we have a repeat

[27:54] offender, we should just go right to the

[27:56] notice and order. And that's an internal

[28:00] decision that we have code that would

[28:03] allow us to make that decision.

[28:06] So

[28:15] » yeah, this language has shall

[28:20] » I don't feel like I need it changed to

[28:22] do my job.

[28:24] >> So you guys are looking at 210 and I'm

[28:27] looking at 120.

[28:29] >> So that's where

[28:32] whenever the reasonable official has

[28:34] believe that a violation of land use

[28:36] ordinance, rule or regulation will most

[28:38] be promptly and adequately terminated by

[28:41] distributes.

[28:46] I can't fake this administrative notice.

[28:50] A written notice and order shall be

[28:52] directed to the person

[28:55] and

[28:56] it says what it has to say. And then at

[28:59] some point here it says

[29:03] the responsible official may at any time

[29:06] add to resend in part or otherwise

[29:07] modify that notice

[29:10] and um

[29:21] » so I had it at the last meeting. Um I'll

[29:26] find it here in a minute.

[29:31] to the order.

[29:42] » I Yeah,

[29:44] >> I did.

[29:53] » Okay.

[29:56] May initiate enforcement action.

[29:58] You're looking at

[30:00] >> 199100A.

[30:02] That's what you're looking at.

[30:02] >> Okay. 199230

[30:06] suspend may suspend any permits. Um

[30:09] there's

[30:11] and that's for for um

[30:18] there's a few in there, but this is

[30:20] mostly land use. So it permits

[30:23] >> and it's not um

[30:29] » my understanding of the context you're

[30:31] talking

[30:47] » um I had it last month and

[30:51] didn't have my stuff with me.

[30:58] » Do you feel that

[31:01] if there's a person that is that is

[31:03] facilitating

[31:13] performing mitigation or whatnot because

[31:15] it says

[31:21] No,

[31:22] >> you start

[31:25] >> I I

[31:31] » I think if you go to a construction site

[31:33] and they're doing something that they

[31:35] haven't gotten permits for, you can put

[31:37] a stop work order on it, right?

[31:38] >> Yep.

[31:39] >> So, if we have a business opened up

[31:42] without any permits to do the business,

[31:44] we can put a stop work order on that,

[31:46] too. Right. We have that ability to do

[31:49] right now.

[31:50] >> Y

[31:50] >> and so

[31:52] what don't you think people would be

[31:55] more inclined to come get things done if

[31:58] they had to stop what they're doing?

[32:01] >> If we were more liberal. Yeah.

[32:04] >> If we were more liberal.

[32:05] with the stop

[32:07] use orders.

[32:08] >> Okay.

[32:12] So, um, they're in the same thing. You

[32:16] know, we had we had another issue where

[32:19] a piece of property was just being used

[32:21] as a a material waste construction waste

[32:25] storage yard and and they brought a rock

[32:28] crusher in without any permits and they

[32:29] did all this stuff and

[32:33] um no matter how many calls I made to

[32:36] the city, it didn't get stopped till

[32:38] finally Travis said to the to the

[32:41] contractor, "You better call this guy

[32:43] because he's pretty down on what you're

[32:46] And when the guy called me, I laid it

[32:48] out for him and he's out of compliance.

[32:51] And he stopped

[32:53] because he's out of compliance. And it's

[32:55] like, you know, we can do this the hard

[32:58] way or we can do it the easy way. The

[33:00] easy way is you stop. The hard way is

[33:03] you stop after it cost you a bunch of

[33:04] money, you know, and if you want me to

[33:07] see that through, I'll see that through.

[33:08] But I don't have to be the bird dog on

[33:10] everything. But I guarantee you if

[33:12] somebody comes to me and says, "Hey,

[33:15] this production companies dusting me out

[33:18] or doing whatever they're doing. I'm I'm

[33:20] going to bird dog it for them just like

[33:21] I would bird dog it for myself. But I

[33:24] just don't understand why it takes so

[33:27] long. And if we can make some code go in

[33:30] there that makes that better.

[33:34] >> Just so you know, um when I drive

[33:36] around, I'll just drive around looking

[33:39] down, see what's going on. I have

[33:42] uh 17 people like doing stuff without

[33:46] permits that I just pulled up and been

[33:48] like, "Hey, stop. Come down to city hall

[33:52] that I have."

[33:53] >> That's awesome.

[33:54] >> Yeah. But I didn't have to go pound. I

[33:57] just was like, "Hey,

[33:59] people are pretty

[34:08] easy."

[34:11] >> You know, you're surprised that you got

[34:13] compliance. You know, I told him, I

[34:16] says, "Hey, I get it. I've built stuff,

[34:19] right? When you're building, you're

[34:20] building and you're throwing money on it

[34:22] and it's got to it's got to make stuff

[34:24] happen. So, a little dust is fine. If

[34:27] you got a piece of property over there

[34:28] that's high density residential and

[34:31] you're treating it like a construction

[34:32] yard and you're you're doing all the

[34:35] construction things over there and

[34:37] you're dusting me out, I'm this is going

[34:39] to be the fourth year if you don't stop

[34:42] of dust and they haven't built anything,

[34:45] you know, and

[34:50] » well they they were behind they were off the road but they were

[34:56] dump trucks in and out, emptying vector

[35:00] trucks just out on the ground, you know,

[35:03] stockpiling asphalt concrete to grind

[35:05] later, you know, just and then grinding

[35:08] it later. And, you know, they have to

[35:10] have a swak up permit to do that. They

[35:12] didn't have any swaka permit, you know.

[35:14] And I emailed Travis and said, "Hey,

[35:18] they're stockpiling stuff that they're

[35:20] going to want to grind later." and they

[35:23] told him, "Oh, we're just storing that

[35:25] grinder."

[35:28] » And then a year later, they did the

[35:31] grinding, you know. So, and they

[35:37] lied their way through that. So, that's

[35:39] where I just just knowing what I know

[35:42] from my neighborhood want to know, is

[35:44] there something we can do in the code

[35:46] that makes it a little better for

[35:48] everybody?

[35:51] So,

[35:54] but I'm just I'm just one person.

[35:58] I think well I know how

[36:02] it's all complaint

[36:10] also.

[36:26] So, I'm just like,

[36:29] um,

[36:30] >> yeah. Well,

[36:33] um,

[36:36] we I'm glad we have bread in there. I

[36:38] really am, but maybe I've just been the

[36:41] unlucky guy to get the sticky ones. So,

[36:43] the smelly guy, by the way,

[36:47] just so you know, um, I don't think

[36:50] Travis was there yet, but I complained

[36:52] about it under the previous mayor.

[36:54] That's how long it's been. and then

[36:56] nothing happened. And then I noticed

[36:58] that the owner of the building was the

[37:01] largest donor at the time I looked to

[37:05] the mayor's re-election campaign. And so

[37:09] that's where you think that's code code

[37:12] helps that, right?

[37:15] >> But

[37:18] and that's the and the question I've

[37:20] always asked when we're writing code. We

[37:22] have to write code that the next person

[37:24] is going to be able to understand and enforce. So,

[37:30] um, if you're telling me we don't need

[37:33] to change the maze to the shs

[37:36] and uh,

[37:39] we won't change the maze to the shs.

[37:41] >> Well, and I think the biggest impact is

[37:44] going to be from the fact that we've

[37:46] gone from $25

[37:48] to 50 75 and 15. So the longer you

[37:52] ignore us, the more painful it gets.

[37:55] Whereas that was never anything to worry

[37:59] about before. It was small enough that

[38:04] people would blow me off.

[38:05] >> Especially if you're renting a space for

[38:07] more than that a day and you're renting

[38:08] a couple hundred. Dave has something to

[38:10] say.

[38:23] I um

[38:29] » yeah so you'll see you'll see in in we

[38:33] have to pay attention to the shoods and

[38:35] the shallows and that's the may shoulds

[38:38] and shall and that's where that's why I

[38:39] was like I want to change this from a

[38:41] may to a shall you know so Um

[38:46] I think we can uh leave it alone. I will

[38:52] be paying attention to see what kind of

[38:54] u

[38:57] things happen there, right? Because this

[39:00] city is not going to get smaller

[39:03] and uh

[39:06] we've got a lot of industrial land. So I

[39:08] hear to build on and you know more

[39:12] problems we can have. So

[39:15] That being said, let's go back to the

[39:17] red lines and discuss them all and um

[39:26] get Mike up to speed.

[39:33] So, um that one

[39:37] kind of clarified basketball hoops. So,

[39:40] if somebody in the city wants to go look

[39:42] and see Yes. Basketball hoops are

[39:44] illegal and it also made so odors were

[39:47] only covered in development code before.

[39:50] This puts them over there in in our

[39:53] nuisance code

[39:57] » out in the streets. Yeah.

[40:02] And then the the next frame

[40:05] changes things from being a misdemeanor

[40:08] to a civil offense.

[40:11] And Then the next frame outline out

[40:15] outlines those civil offenses

[40:19] um

[40:21] which are graduating. So that and then

[40:25] quite honestly on a lot of things when

[40:28] it's um

[40:30] uh somebody that

[40:33] can't m can't maintain their yard u has

[40:38] some leeway before these go into effect

[40:40] with our code but somebody that um

[40:43] blatantly doesn't maintain their yard.

[40:46] What part of town you live in?

[40:49] Offensive. Okay.

[40:58] Oh yeah,

[41:04] » because um

[41:07] the misdemeanors are police and courts

[41:11] and civil we can find

[41:14] nutshell. Good enough.

[41:18] Trying to get good at this.

[41:24] Okay. So, that's where it goes up.

[41:28] The more obstinate you are, the more

[41:30] expensive it's going to be. And uh

[41:34] then if you have two violations,

[41:36] let's say you have two broken down cars

[41:38] in your yard,

[41:40] it's 50 bucks a day each

[41:44] according to that. That's the Reader's

[41:45] Digest version of that. You go ahead and

[41:49] scroll.

[41:52] Um,

[41:55] that's the stuff we talked about

[41:58] in uh referring to 1990

[42:04] uh

[42:06] for development code

[42:10] » because the 1.12 is the CI is the

[42:14] misdemeanor section under for police.

[42:19] Yeah, we we got rid of that. Yeah. Okay.

[42:30] That's a new addition that talks about

[42:32] like if somebody's out doing a re- roof

[42:34] without a permit, they pay double. And

[42:37] that's in our that's in our fee

[42:42] schedule, but it's now clear in the code

[42:45] that we

[42:48] >> So, um well, no, in this case, no. In

[42:51] this case, it does say uh it will be

[42:54] assessed. So, it is a sh. So, no second

[42:58] choices. If you're a roofer, you know,

[43:00] you need a roofing permit.

[43:02] >> What about if you're a homeowner?

[43:08] Yeah.

[43:14] » Well, so it used to be also you if you

[43:18] did a complete tear off, you needed a

[43:21] permit, but if you were adding that

[43:25] second layer,

[43:27] you know, and you weren't doing any

[43:29] structural repairs to your roof or

[43:30] anything, um, that didn't need a permit.

[43:34] And I think that have been an

[43:36] international building code thing. Do

[43:38] you guys know

[43:46] » what was that? I didn't

[43:47] >> That's in the new international building

[43:50] code and we have not adopted that one

[43:52] yet. We're still under 2024.

[43:55] >> So in

[43:56] >> or 21

[43:57] >> in 21 are we needing a permit to add

[44:01] shingles?

[44:02] >> Yeah. All the required.

[44:04] >> Okay.

[44:06] which by the way is good if somebody

[44:08] doesn't know they already have three

[44:10] layers and they can't put a force on

[44:12] there.

[44:12] >> You know, there's there's

[44:15] some of this stuff, you know, you think

[44:17] about if you ever had to have an

[44:19] insurance claim and they find out you

[44:21] didn't pull a permit for something

[44:22] that's you know, a lot of this is for

[44:24] the homeowner's own protection,

[44:27] you know,

[44:29] not just the wiring stuff.

[44:34] used to be.

[44:37] >> I think it's two.

[44:41] >> You can't go over two.

[44:44] >> It adds more. I'm sure

[44:51] the roofing lobby

[45:04] » got to wait for the new IBC to come out

[45:07] before you add a layer.

[45:17] Um,

[45:19] so the next section, Mike, is where we

[45:22] took the smell part out of that standard

[45:27] sighted for

[45:28] >> Southwest Clean Air. Swapa,

[45:33] they call themselves. I don't know.

[45:34] Maybe I just my hearing I always thought

[45:36] they were

[45:36] >> Swaka.

[45:42] Yeah,

[45:49] » for the smells.

[45:50] >> I don't know.

[45:53] >> Yes, I I'll look them up here. Um,

[46:03] miss

[46:14] Southwest Clean Air Agency, SWCA.

[46:20] Do we want to add that correction to

[46:23] that while we're here?

[46:30] And so, actually, there's still

[46:34] cover pollutants. what what the other

[46:37] two things that we left

[46:41] um

[46:44] still covers pollutants and dust and

[46:47] everything. So even it might smell but

[46:50] also be a pollutant, right? We're going

[46:51] to

[46:53] have their involvement there

[47:00] and

[47:08] I missed that one. Oh. Oh, yeah.

[47:12] >> That's um I think isn't most of that

[47:17] already in

[47:20] >> it's a clarification.

[47:21] >> Yeah, that's a clarification. So,

[47:26] um, so what is the code

[47:29] on like in the county

[47:33] and

[47:34] when you get a permit from the county,

[47:36] they give you a thing you have to staple

[47:37] up, put on a post at the street that

[47:39] says I have a permit. Do we have that?

[47:42] And it says we have to post up

[47:44] >> that I did talk to Mike Williams, the

[47:48] county um

[47:52] county building official and he said

[47:54] that is still in the code.

[47:56] >> But what about Woodley?

[47:58] >> And we should be doing that because it

[48:00] is in the building code.

[48:01] >> Okay.

[48:03] >> Because that would really help even

[48:06] better, right? When she drives by

[48:08] something and there's an orange.

[48:10] >> I already know that doesn't have a

[48:12] permit.

[48:14] I know.

[48:16] >> I guess you do, but I don't know why I

[48:19] feel like it takes a village. And even

[48:21] the city guys that are out taking care

[48:23] of the mowing and everything, they see

[48:24] something and you know, they should at

[48:26] least tell you or something, right? You

[48:30] know, don't get me started on my rocks

[48:32] in the road stuff, but

[48:35] um anyway, we're going to start trying

[48:39] to do that somehow. Cool. All right.

[48:44] Maybe if they get a Saturday permit,

[48:46] they get a blue paper to put up or

[48:48] something.

[48:49] >> Well, then so is there a fine they don't

[48:51] have it up.

[48:55] » It's funny because there's so many

[48:57] places,

[48:58] >> you know, you have you get this paper

[49:00] and it says post this. But do you even

[49:03] get your permits because you do

[49:05] everything online now, right? You get

[49:07] your permits online.

[49:09] >> You don't get anything back from the

[49:11] city.

[49:12] >> Not anymore.

[49:15] >> But they have to keep the plans on site

[49:18] as well.

[49:23] >> yeah, that's that's hard to

[49:29] » I don't care if they take a sheet of

[49:30] plywood and write permit number 26-045

[49:35] on there and put that out there quite

[49:37] honestly. It shows they have a permit

[49:40] and where the inspector needs to go,

[49:41] right?

[49:43] >> So, anyway, that's not on here though,

[49:46] Mike. Okay. So, we can keep scrolling.

[49:52] » That's the odor shall not apply to the

[49:54] food. We're going to try that

[49:58] >> and

[50:01] says residential and commercial. So,

[50:03] should we add zones to that as well?

[50:08] >> Uh, no. I put circumstances because

[50:13] um it might be a res

[50:20] Correct.

[50:23] » It could be a commercial food truck in

[50:26] an industrial zone in which case it's a

[50:29] commercial circumstance.

[50:31] >> Yeah.

[50:32] >> Industrial zone res.

[50:34] >> Okay. All right.

[50:38] » And I specifically put the word

[50:40] preparation

[50:42] as opposed to

[50:44] >> processing or something.

[50:49] Okay.

[51:02] » Yeah. Just

[51:04] Yeah.

[51:06] Gives it some direction.

[51:09] >> And then down below there's a section on

[51:12] defines what the development codes that

[51:14] are subject enforcement. This is that

[51:17] reference because we no longer use land

[51:19] use codes. We use development codes

[51:22] because it includes zoning, building,

[51:24] environmental.

[51:32] This is just a different version of the

[51:35] ones that we talked about. So this is

[51:36] just

[51:40] and then here's the definition for land

[51:43] use and development code specifically

[51:46] titles 8 which is 8 and 12 which are the

[51:49] nuisance and um 13 is uh streets or

[51:54] sorry 12 is streets water sewer 14 is

[51:58] building 15 title 15 is environmental

[52:02] title 16 is subdivision title 17 is the

[52:08] zoning code and title 19 is the

[52:10] administrative code.

[52:13] So this makes it clear that what code

[52:17] enforcement is responsible for versus

[52:19] what the police are responsible for.

[52:23] So

[52:25] Mike, have you done any city code

[52:28] scrolling gone into where it's at a

[52:31] little bit? Okay. So you know how to

[52:32] find it?

[52:34] >> Yeah. Um,

[52:37] good. Very good. All right. What else we

[52:40] got? Penalties.

[52:43] >> This is in the enforcement section.

[52:46] >> Yeah.

[52:50] » All right.

[52:56] Anybody have anything to ask about or

[53:00] add?

[53:20] And what's funny is it was redone in

[53:24] some things were redone in 22

[53:28] and a lot of things were not. So anyway,

[53:32] all right.

[53:33] Everybody happy? Can we conclude the

[53:36] workshop portion? Do we have any public

[53:39] comment about our workshop?

[53:43] Sounds good. Pass the

[53:46] Donna test.

[53:51] All right, then we'll um close up that

[53:53] workshop

[53:55] and we'll go on to

[53:59] action items.

[54:01] And first Approving the minutes of our

[54:05] July 16th

[54:07] meeting.

[54:09] >> We approve the minutes.

[54:13] » You need to call those out. Motion's

[54:15] been made. Second. Any discussion?

[54:18] Mike's probably going to stayain.

[54:21] Um,

[54:23] all those in favor? I There we go. I got

[54:28] when I go to my union meetings once a

[54:30] month, they read the complete minutes to

[54:34] us

[54:39] and the AC don't work. All right,

[54:44] get it rolling here, boys. Okay. So, the

[54:48] next action item is ordinance number

[54:51] 16006 retooling our code to ship it up

[54:56] to city council.

[55:01] I move that we recommend approval of the

[55:21] Nice.

[55:24] » All right, we're going to call this vote

[55:26] up. Motion's been made and seconded. Any

[55:28] more discussion?

[55:31] >> All right, the vote.

[55:37] » Commissioner what?

[55:39] >> Commissioner C. Hi,

[55:41] >> Commissioner Matson.

[55:42] >> Hi,

[55:42] >> Commissioner Le.

[55:44] >> All right. Wow.

[55:48] We got that done by August.

[55:56] » We did spend well um it was not without

[56:00] um some hiccups here and there. There

[56:02] was some presentation stuff that wasn't

[56:03] available once and we actually had some

[56:06] other

[56:08] stuff that took up a bunch of time. So

[56:10] we were like trying to

[56:12] short version it at the end. But um

[56:15] anyway,

[56:16] >> was there any?

[56:20] » No. Um

[56:23] one one thing we did though that is not

[56:26] in the code that when we had a meeting

[56:28] with we have state says we have to have

[56:31] a joint meeting with city council once a

[56:33] year. And in that joint meeting with

[56:36] city council I brought up that

[56:39] you know, somehow we are u complaint

[56:43] driven

[56:45] and

[56:46] we shouldn't be. If staff sees

[56:49] something, they shouldn't have to wait

[56:51] for a complaint to do something about

[56:52] it. And so, uh, the city council all

[56:55] right, then agreed to it. And actually,

[56:57] the only thing that why they change the

[56:59] website,

[57:00] right? Because their website said code

[57:02] enforcement was complaint driven. So,

[57:05] you know, that um I think that really

[57:07] helped give a little more um free free

[57:12] reign and she's not out to um

[57:16] you know be

[57:19] mean person. She's just protecting Oh

[57:22] yeah, look at you.

[57:24] Protecting the city's interest and um

[57:29] anyway

[57:30] um that took care of that and then u

[57:35] we kind of tossed amount of the fee

[57:38] change to them then and they actually

[57:40] got workshops at city council last week

[57:43] because it was a slow news week. They um

[57:47] covered our stuff too and so they kind

[57:49] of know what to expect and when they see

[57:52] this

[57:54] um hopefully I'll be able to be there to

[57:57] maybe sell it a little, you know. Um

[58:02] I don't think any of the city council

[58:03] people are going to have any problem

[58:05] because the city council people kind of

[58:07] bringing up the same issues that we're

[58:10] trying to fix already. So hopefully it

[58:12] helps. But anyway, thank you guys for

[58:16] let's all getting through that. So, um,

[58:21] we've got a, um,

[58:24] permit activity update.

[58:46] » Oh, yeah.

[58:48] So, I went through and crunched some

[58:52] numbers, calculated um building going on in Alder Ash. It's

[58:58] 148 lots total in there. So far, we have

[59:03] 94 lots that are either occupied or

[59:07] actively being built.

[59:10] And then we have 54 lots in there that

[59:13] there's no permit. They're available.

[59:15] Building has not started. So that's

[59:17] Alder Nash. Riverwalk is 48 lots total

[59:22] um with only 11 lots so far being

[59:25] occupied and they are fully built and 37

[59:29] lots available. No permits have been

[59:31] pulled yet

[59:33] for Riverwalk.

[59:35] >> So is that whether So COO loop

[59:42] which one's that? So that's the sandbox.

[59:47] >> Okay.

[59:48] >> So the sandbox

[59:50] has 85 lots total with 44 of them being

[59:54] occupied or currently being built and 41

[59:58] lots that novailable.

[1:00:05] give you an idea of what's available and

[1:00:06] what's

[1:00:08] >> so um

[1:00:15] you're going to have to help me. So

[1:00:17] Alder and Ash,

[1:00:19] that's the one on the Lewis River side

[1:00:22] of the

[1:00:24] >> funny shaped houses.

[1:00:28] Lewis River side of

[1:00:29] >> it's the one next to the elementary

[1:00:31] school, North Fork Elementary

[1:00:33] >> behind it.

[1:00:34] >> Yep.

[1:00:34] >> Okay. So, that's actually PD.

[1:00:38] >> Yeah. Okay. That's Alder and Nash. Okay.

[1:00:40] >> The highlighted ones are the ones that

[1:00:42] are either occupied or currently being

[1:00:45] built.

[1:00:48] » I sold all the ones that don't look at

[1:00:50] another house

[1:00:53] >> quite a bit first.

[1:00:56] >> Same thing with Coh

[1:01:00] » are the what

[1:01:01] >> are they

[1:01:03] all

[1:01:05] >> the roads are? Yes.

[1:01:10] » Those are

[1:01:13] this phase has not been recorded yet.

[1:01:15] >> Oh, okay. That explains that I just

[1:01:18] typically I want that backyard

[1:01:28] river.

[1:01:29] >> Okay.

[1:01:30] >> So that's the one that's on the east

[1:01:32] river side

[1:01:33] >> and that's probably the same thing that

[1:01:34] they have some that haven't been

[1:01:36] recorded yet as you get closer to the

[1:01:37] river.

[1:01:38] >> Yes. So that's these ones here.

[1:01:40] >> Yeah.

[1:01:43] I can't

[1:01:52] » detach.

[1:01:53] >> Yes.

[1:02:03] » I I

[1:02:05] >> bet you better.

[1:02:10] So these kind of came in when CO was

[1:02:14] going and these are um they specifically

[1:02:18] got a increased lot coverage if it is a

[1:02:22] singlestory

[1:02:25] um ranch style because they were looking

[1:02:28] in the one to $1.2 million range and for

[1:02:32] seniors that would have um no ADA

[1:02:36] issues.

[1:02:38] this subdivision,

[1:02:40] their price point when they were

[1:02:42] originally designing was in the neighbor

[1:02:44] of 400 to 450,000.

[1:02:47] So it is

[1:02:48] >> that's a starter house today.

[1:02:51] >> So that is a starter house. Y

[1:02:53] >> and those also that was also zoned

[1:02:57] >> medium density

[1:02:58] >> MDR.

[1:02:58] >> Yep.

[1:02:59] >> So uh the other one was seven

[1:03:03] >> LDR 75, right?

[1:03:05] >> Yes. Their average lot size, I wanted to

[1:03:09] say, was closer to 9 to 12.

[1:03:12] >> Yeah. Well, yeah. If you're going to

[1:03:13] sell something for that much money, it's

[1:03:15] got to have some yard.

[1:03:16] >> Yeah. And then this subdivision with 150

[1:03:21] behind the school, their target was 550

[1:03:24] to 650. And

[1:03:26] >> I I talked to somebody that bought one

[1:03:28] in there for 530.

[1:03:30] So, but they have uh some CCNRs and HOA

[1:03:36] fees and stuff that I

[1:03:39] don't get, you know. So, like you can

[1:03:43] only have park dust in your backyard.

[1:03:57] And is that because they have to have

[1:03:58] sprinklers because they're so close

[1:03:59] together and the roads are so skinny.

[1:04:02] >> Irrigation.

[1:04:04] >> Yeah, they do not all need um

[1:04:07] sprinklers, but they are have the water

[1:04:11] connections for it.

[1:04:16] So, so according to Riley, the houses

[1:04:24] that have to have fire sprinklers

[1:04:27] get a one inch connection, but we only

[1:04:29] charge them for a 3/4 or something

[1:04:31] crazy. But uh but we have to

[1:04:35] >> that's for the fire sprinklers should

[1:04:37] and and I think because it's a PURD and

[1:04:41] everything's so close together and the

[1:04:42] streets are so small.

[1:04:45] Um it would be reasonable that I know

[1:04:48] how our fire department loves sprinklers

[1:04:52] that they would require sprinklers

[1:04:54] there. So that's probably why that one

[1:04:56] inch connection.

[1:04:57] >> Those don't have sprinklers.

[1:05:02] But they don't have lines.

[1:05:07] » Yeah. So they I think you are correct.

[1:05:10] They have the one in connections but

[1:05:12] we're only charging them for 3/4 in

[1:05:15] because um they are not using the full 1

[1:05:19] in connection capacity. So it's a quirk

[1:05:23] in our code where since they are not

[1:05:26] producing that much sewer and they are

[1:05:29] using a reduced amount of water

[1:05:31] theoretically the extra capacity for the

[1:05:34] 1 in is normally required for sprinklers

[1:05:38] and so if they were to put in sprinklers

[1:05:40] that's what the systems are designed for

[1:05:43] but they can opt not to put sprinklers

[1:05:45] in there

[1:05:50] » you have a water meter for a

[1:05:59] Yes. So that all has to do with

[1:06:01] >> Yeah. with water meter. When you

[1:06:04] >> you when you buy a $260 water meter from

[1:06:07] the city, it's

[1:06:10] $5,000 because the city has to take

[1:06:13] money to set aside for future needs and

[1:06:16] development growth. So um that charge is

[1:06:21] based on the size of meter. So, this is

[1:06:24] where they're getting they're getting a

[1:06:26] one inch meter and I I always from from

[1:06:30] Riley it was because

[1:06:33] um it has to be that big for fire

[1:06:35] sprinklers in the house but it doesn't

[1:06:38] mean that they don't use that in a

[1:06:39] normal house. So, that's where that

[1:06:41] caveat is. So, that's why I would say if

[1:06:43] they have one in meters they probably

[1:06:45] have to have fire sprinkers.

[1:06:46] >> Well, so that was the original in the

[1:06:51] original design called for 1 in meters

[1:06:55] even though they didn't need them. So

[1:06:58] Riley made them install what the

[1:07:00] engineer designed. Well, I was surprised

[1:07:03] the fire department did not require

[1:07:06] sprinklers in those houses

[1:07:08] >> because

[1:07:24] » they can make you get sprinklers if if

[1:07:27] you're on a flag lot. They will make you

[1:07:29] get sprinklers.

[1:07:29] >> Yes.

[1:07:30] >> If it's if If you're more than 150 feet

[1:07:34] on a remote lot from a hydrant,

[1:07:38] >> you have to have sprinklers. So

[1:07:41] >> So like those

[1:07:44] >> So those infill projects like on

[1:07:46] Washington and CC Street, the houses out

[1:07:49] front don't have sprinklers, but the

[1:07:52] houses in the back do have sprinklers.

[1:07:55] So the the houses in the back, the flag

[1:07:58] lots have 1 in meters, whereas ones out

[1:08:02] front of 3/4 in

[1:08:06] » things.

[1:08:08] Okay. All right. So, we are we're done

[1:08:11] interrupting. Was that everything there?

[1:08:13] >> Yep.

[1:08:15] >> So, you think it slowed down some? The

[1:08:18] >> Yeah, the permits coming in have slowed

[1:08:20] down a lot. I did want to just mention

[1:08:22] really quick and I put this in front of

[1:08:25] you guys. It's just a year toate um code

[1:08:28] enforcement update of you can see how

[1:08:31] many have been closed and then I also

[1:08:34] highlighted the ones that are in the

[1:08:37] notice of order phase. Um but I did want

[1:08:41] to just share some good news and that is

[1:08:44] um on 1507 I believe

[1:08:48] the half burnt down apartment

[1:08:51] you know with the

[1:08:53] I

[1:08:57] gentle

[1:08:59] to the land

[1:09:02] >> just a little bit

[1:09:04] and they are they came in and they're

[1:09:06] going to be demolishing

[1:09:09] So that's kind of awesome. I I actually

[1:09:11] talked to Chief Gibbs about those. I

[1:09:15] said, you know, you guys get calls there

[1:09:17] and he said, we get called. I said, what

[1:09:19] are the calls that you're that are

[1:09:22] generated for that? And he said, it's

[1:09:24] usually vandalism,

[1:09:26] and trans. And so I told him, well,

[1:09:29] those are getting demolished. And he was

[1:09:32] very happy to hear that.

[1:09:34] >> Yes, I'm very happy. There's an easy way

[1:09:36] we could do this

[1:09:37] >> or the hard way.

[1:09:39] >> You know what? It works every time.

[1:09:43] >> So, uh,

[1:09:45] >> are you getting any response from 503

[1:09:48] Washington Street?

[1:09:49] >> So, he is one of those.

[1:09:53] >> Yeah.

[1:09:54] >> I'm just waiting for the clock to

[1:09:56] finish.

[1:09:57] But, um, I've gotten excellent response

[1:10:00] from

[1:10:04] also got excellent response from about

[1:10:07] two other houses on CC

[1:10:09] and it's crazy the

[1:10:14] >> better I'm sure the neighbors

[1:10:17] >> they better they better

[1:10:19] P's and Q's on CC street

[1:10:22] >> what's that

[1:10:22] >> they better mind their P's and Q's on CC

[1:10:24] street

[1:10:27] >> I

[1:10:28] >> but I'm in the middle Washington also

[1:10:33] the

[1:10:34] just across from the corner store. You

[1:10:36] know those apartments right there?

[1:10:38] >> Yeah.

[1:10:39] >> I don't know if you guys have noticed

[1:10:41] just the insane amounts of trash,

[1:10:44] garbage, used furniture, mattresses.

[1:10:48] >> Um they are repeatedly

[1:10:53] repeat offenders and I am about to do a

[1:10:57] notice in order. I sent them their

[1:10:59] second notice but I actually wrote them

[1:11:00] a letter certified mail to the

[1:11:04] He said, "Y'all, this isn't okay."

[1:11:12] » Riverside

[1:11:14] has all those town home.

[1:11:17] >> No, there's an apartment thing there.

[1:11:20] >> Just look for mattress.

[1:11:30] » No, it's not.

[1:11:36] How do we know what's designated local?

[1:11:38] >> Oh, okay. Yeah.

[1:11:41] >> Only only, you know, the property

[1:11:43] management company. So, you know, it's

[1:11:44] not the housing authority in Vancouver

[1:11:46] somewhere.

[1:11:47] >> Yeah.

[1:11:47] >> And I have never got a response from

[1:11:49] them and so I just sent them their final

[1:11:52] letter saying

[1:11:56] for littering.

[1:12:00] I listed all of it. So, and I sent it

[1:12:02] certified.

[1:12:05] >> Terrible. I have a stack of photos of

[1:12:08] just garbage and on the sidewalk.

[1:12:12] >> I

[1:12:20] sent it to the property management. It's

[1:12:22] still a city code.

[1:12:25] >> I think um

[1:12:26] >> the owner

[1:12:30] Absolutely.

[1:12:32] The occupants won't get penalized. It'll

[1:12:35] be the property management,

[1:12:37] >> I think. And if it was um um the housing

[1:12:40] authority long, they would have a crew

[1:12:42] come out and

[1:12:43] >> get it picked up. So,

[1:12:46] >> we had to have the same conversation

[1:12:47] with the meadow park or whatever.

[1:12:53] Same thing. piles of garbage and

[1:12:55] mattresses and it took two weeks to

[1:12:58] track down the property management and

[1:12:59] they were up in Seattle and I found out

[1:13:02] they did not have maintenance guy coming

[1:13:04] in and it was just a hot mess and

[1:13:08] they're on

[1:13:10] >> fantastic. That's that's

[1:13:13] wonderful workers.

[1:13:17] Okay. V vacant build buildable land

[1:13:20] update

[1:13:22] notice. This meeting will be recorded.

[1:13:28] So, um,

[1:13:31] this had been asked about at the last

[1:13:32] couple meetings for an update and I

[1:13:37] downloaded a bunch of information and

[1:13:39] sorted through the data. And then I came

[1:13:41] to realize kind of after I was done is

[1:13:44] there was a bunch of properties missing

[1:13:48] because I kept expecting as I kind of

[1:13:51] looked through the data and updated it

[1:13:54] that there was stuff missing. And so I

[1:13:58] didn't realize that until Monday when I

[1:14:01] thought I was finished when I

[1:14:02] discovered. So what I did is I pulled

[1:14:05] the 2023 numbers that were prepared as

[1:14:08] part of the comprehensive update. So,

[1:14:11] I'm going to show you real quick some data just to give you an idea of

[1:14:15] where we are. Um, and that is so we're

[1:14:19] going to look at residential,

[1:14:21] commercial, and industrial just some

[1:14:23] generic numbers here. So, our total

[1:14:25] acreage of residential land, so single

[1:14:28] family and multifamily is 681.8.8

[1:14:34] acres. So 682 acres of residential land

[1:14:38] in the city and um

[1:14:41] in 2023 when we did the vacant land

[1:14:45] analysis there was 97.11

[1:14:48] acres that was vacant or vacant with

[1:14:52] approved plans on it. And so you see

[1:14:56] that was broken out here 30 35.3 acres

[1:15:00] of vacant undeveloped and then there

[1:15:03] were proposals that were in for

[1:15:06] approval. Now, since that time, 47.3

[1:15:10] acres has been developed or 48% of that

[1:15:14] vacant land um has been um

[1:15:20] uh subdivided and um is in work. So, of

[1:15:25] that, 45 acres is vacant because we had

[1:15:29] a couple projects that were approved and

[1:15:32] then ended up not built or got smaller

[1:15:36] than so the sandbox went from apartments

[1:15:39] to part of it is homes, part of it is

[1:15:42] still vacant. So that's part of the

[1:15:44] reason why the vacant land is more

[1:15:46] available now than it was in 2023

[1:15:49] um because we were dealing with COVID

[1:15:52] 2021 2022 approvals and um when I did

[1:15:57] that analysis in 23 um and then we have

[1:16:01] a lot less that is development approved

[1:16:05] but not constructed. And so in addition

[1:16:09] to this 49 acres of vacant and available

[1:16:15] land, there's also the 105 lots that are

[1:16:21] occupied and constructed or in

[1:16:24] construction. And then as Brea was

[1:16:26] mentioning those three subdivisions,

[1:16:28] there's still a lot of lots. Basically

[1:16:31] 50% of those lots are still available.

[1:16:34] So although it looks like we've used 48%

[1:16:37] of the vacant land, there's still a lot

[1:16:40] of vacant lots within those lots that

[1:16:44] have been developed.

[1:16:46] So that's kind of a moving number.

[1:16:50] And then the other side of the

[1:16:52] residential equation is the multifamily

[1:16:54] supply and that was 47.53

[1:16:57] acres in 2023 and 12 of that was vacant.

[1:17:01] And then there were several projects

[1:17:03] that were um proposed for development.

[1:17:07] And since then 19 of those 35 acres have

[1:17:11] been developed and the units are out

[1:17:14] there on the ground. And so um that was

[1:17:18] the smaller subdivision known as the

[1:17:21] Sandbox is is specifically the one of

[1:17:25] the lots or one of the projects that was

[1:17:28] developed and there are still 41 vacant

[1:17:31] lots in that subdivision that haven't

[1:17:34] been used but basically we still have

[1:17:37] about 70% of the multifamily land is

[1:17:40] available and there's a couple projects

[1:17:42] on the board so one by um on Fifth

[1:17:46] Street by North Elementary and then

[1:17:50] another sorry Woodland Elementary and

[1:17:53] then there's also 30 units behind the um

[1:18:00] Woodland Corner Store kind of in that

[1:18:03] area there between Gordon and the seaw

[1:18:05] wall and

[1:18:09] >> get legs.

[1:18:09] >> That one's still Yep. They're waiting.

[1:18:13] They have their final engineering now. I

[1:18:15] don't know what they're waiting on. I

[1:18:18] think they're trying to time it so that

[1:18:21] they get their permits before the school

[1:18:23] impact fees go up, even though they're

[1:18:26] not necessarily planning on building it

[1:18:28] right away. So when you start seeing

[1:18:31] them do site preparation, you'll know

[1:18:33] that those building permits are ready to

[1:18:35] go because they've got all their

[1:18:37] engineering.

[1:18:40] >> So um

[1:18:43] I have a question that you know we It

[1:18:47] was talked about at the city council

[1:18:49] meeting and everything that the the

[1:18:50] county is planning for 10,000

[1:18:54] extra homes over the next 20 years

[1:18:57] >> and they're going to all lot 2,000 of

[1:19:00] that to Woodland.

[1:19:04] So they say and is that 2,000 more based

[1:19:08] on do they have their own inventories or

[1:19:11] based on our inventories from our comp

[1:19:14] plan or

[1:19:17] um where are they where are they getting

[1:19:20] their basis for those numbers.

[1:19:23] >> So that is a question that is still

[1:19:26] hanging out there. At the start of the

[1:19:28] process that was one of their first

[1:19:30] major discussion points and then they've

[1:19:33] kind of

[1:19:34] um put that on the back burner. They are

[1:19:37] updating their critical area ordinance

[1:19:39] right now and when they have finished

[1:19:42] with their critical area ordinance

[1:19:44] update, they will be turning back to the

[1:19:47] comprehensive plan and kind of

[1:19:49] addressing that. We

[1:19:53] did not get a clear answer when we asked

[1:19:56] how they arrived at that number.

[1:20:00] What's that random? Yes. So

[1:20:04] >> because we were last like oh we still

[1:20:06] need

[1:20:08] >> the leftover amount. Yeah. So um they

[1:20:13] have not fully discussed that and part

[1:20:16] of that is because they haven't really

[1:20:18] made that final decision. So I think

[1:20:23] that is

[1:20:26] still in the back of their heads but

[1:20:27] they haven't quite put that to paper

[1:20:29] yet.

[1:20:40] So, so under the growth management act,

[1:20:44] our plans have to be consistent.

[1:20:47] However, our plan has to be a lot more

[1:20:51] comprehensive than theirs and we are not

[1:20:55] quite sure how commerce is going to

[1:20:58] treat that because we did ours last year

[1:21:02] and they're doing theirs this year and I

[1:21:06] been asking this question for five years

[1:21:09] and they've kind of said

[1:21:12] we're going to muddle through this the

[1:21:14] best that we can and It is about time to

[1:21:17] pay the piper and by the end of this

[1:21:20] year we will have muddled to the finish

[1:21:23] line and it's either going to be total

[1:21:26] bedum or

[1:21:28] everybody's going to roll their eyes and

[1:21:30] snicker and we'll just be inconsistent.

[1:21:34] Yeah.

[1:21:44] » Can I

[1:21:47] editorialize on that a minute?

[1:21:49] um

[1:21:53] we have to plan for a certain amount but

[1:21:59] we don't have to plan the easy stuff

[1:22:02] to be developed as part of our plan. So

[1:22:08] the easy stuff being expand our

[1:22:11] urban growth boundary and annex a bunch

[1:22:13] of we we have a lot more capacity than

[1:22:16] people realize inside our city

[1:22:20] boundaries now that already have

[1:22:24] pipes in the street and everything. And

[1:22:26] if we ever expect to complete the

[1:22:28] sidewalks in Oldtown and all of these

[1:22:32] things, you drive through Oldtown and

[1:22:34] look look in people's yards, it's it

[1:22:36] freaks them out. And um just look at the

[1:22:39] lots and sometimes you can go by four or

[1:22:42] five lots in a row and say this can

[1:22:45] accommodate a mother-in-law. set up an

[1:22:48] ADU, some sort of unit of housing. It

[1:22:51] doesn't have to be a track home in a

[1:22:53] neighborhood. And so we

[1:22:57] hopefully will be able to answer to most

[1:23:00] of this assignment, whatever it be,

[1:23:04] with space we already have. Now, the

[1:23:07] tough thing is it's hard to get those

[1:23:09] lots into the inventory,

[1:23:12] you know, and it's and it's nothing you

[1:23:14] can count on because you can't count on

[1:23:17] somebody's deciding, oh, I'm going to

[1:23:21] put an ADU on my property because it's

[1:23:23] the best thing for the city. But in the

[1:23:25] same token, some of these people are

[1:23:28] going to

[1:23:31] retire and move to Hawaii or something

[1:23:33] like that or leave the house to the kids

[1:23:35] and the kids are going to go, "Let's

[1:23:36] knock that old thing down and build a

[1:23:38] forplex," you know, because it can

[1:23:40] happen there. So,

[1:23:42] I'm not saying it's easy,

[1:23:45] but it's also not going to happen if you

[1:23:51] make the easy stuff available, you know?

[1:23:53] And that's what we're seeing now. with the available land that we have,

[1:23:58] it's all the tougher stuff to develop.

[1:24:01] You know, even that even that one with

[1:24:04] the by the intermediate school, you

[1:24:06] know, that property was

[1:24:10] what 30% wetlands. And so they had to

[1:24:14] change some design standards to get

[1:24:15] their their count up to make that pencil

[1:24:18] out. And so we really need and my my

[1:24:22] feelings are on this is we really need

[1:24:24] to to push the infill and recognize that

[1:24:28] there is space to hit that number, but

[1:24:32] it's not,

[1:24:34] you know, we don't have to,

[1:24:36] you know, we we just passed a bunch of

[1:24:39] uh code for ADUs and things that the

[1:24:42] state told us we had to do. Well, the

[1:24:44] states made that easier and told cities

[1:24:47] they can't zone that stuff out and

[1:24:50] things. And so there's there's really a

[1:24:53] lot more lots out there that could

[1:24:55] afford a unit that don't have a unit.

[1:24:58] And and I think we can, you know, and

[1:25:02] even I don't care what Clark K says, we

[1:25:06] can we can count the acreage that's in

[1:25:10] Clark County that's really hard to

[1:25:14] But we can count it, you know, and it's

[1:25:17] just kind of the psychological of it and

[1:25:19] we don't um

[1:25:21] >> so it's a goal they're setting

[1:25:23] >> they're

[1:25:24] >> Yeah. So you got to remember if you

[1:25:26] Google search 98674 growth rate it's

[1:25:30] like 2.4%.

[1:25:32] But how much of that a lotment that the

[1:25:35] county is the county going to say, okay,

[1:25:37] you know, a bunch of that is going to be

[1:25:40] homes in the Woodland area but not in

[1:25:43] the Woodland city limits. It's not like,

[1:25:44] you know, so the county is going to

[1:25:47] absorb. They're assigning so much to

[1:25:48] Castle Rock and so much to Calama and

[1:25:53] so much to us and so much to the county.

[1:25:56] And so,

[1:25:58] >> you know, it's a goal. It's not

[1:25:59] necessarily a

[1:26:01] >> and the whole commerce thing is is you kind of want to try to be compliant

[1:26:06] with commerce when it comes to getting

[1:26:08] grant money and stuff like that. You

[1:26:10] know, it's some of the boxes they check,

[1:26:13] you know, puts you in front of somebody

[1:26:14] else sometimes. But, um, there's a lot

[1:26:17] of communities out there that are not in

[1:26:19] compliance with Congress,

[1:26:21] >> probably Clark County

[1:26:24] >> and they're still getting their stuff.

[1:26:26] Yeah. So anyway, yeah, that's the

[1:26:35] Yeah, population growth. Yeah.

[1:26:42] In the zip code. Did you search the zip

[1:26:44] code?

[1:26:46] >> That's our zip code.

[1:26:48] >> Yeah.

[1:26:53] which is where we came from. It's over.

[1:27:12] Um, thank you for that, Travis. And

[1:27:15] then, um,

[1:27:18] you don't have that where you can throw

[1:27:20] it up either. with the dates.

[1:27:22] >> I did not bring that map and I ticked

[1:27:25] myself for that. Oh, but I emailed it to

[1:27:27] you. So, I can

[1:27:29] >> you look in your email?

[1:27:30] >> I can look in my email. So, I asked

[1:27:32] Travis to do this one. Um, which he I

[1:27:37] mean I'm sure it was some work and I

[1:27:38] really appreciate that he did it because

[1:27:41] um

[1:27:48] there's

[1:27:49] when we're planning I think people get

[1:27:52] scared when they hear numbers and

[1:28:03] This is kind of some fun facts. There's

[1:28:06] got to be one with an attachment.

[1:28:12] » No, it's next one up. That one.

[1:28:17] » Yeah.

[1:28:25] » Oh, no. That's the That's the raw maps

[1:28:28] that I used to create.

[1:28:47] Probably put it on some other

[1:28:50] conversation and it's going to be harder

[1:28:52] to find.

[1:29:13] There we go.

[1:29:16] Rotate that.

[1:29:21] So that's the annexations

[1:29:25] and the last annexations in the city.

[1:29:28] Um just kind of to give you an idea. So

[1:29:33] um

[1:29:35] Travis, you want to you want to kind of

[1:29:37] give detail on

[1:29:40] so in 2000 so in 2005 that yellow one

[1:29:43] was um

[1:29:46] over there between the freeway and Green

[1:29:48] Mountain Road. What is the um

[1:29:52] >> well no Belmont lives on the cross the

[1:29:54] road l that stuff was that stuff was

[1:29:57] annexed and zoned in the 1900s

[1:30:00] >> yeah builder supplies there

[1:30:02] >> 2007

[1:30:04] >> was um

[1:30:06] >> church

[1:30:06] >> was that just the church the high school

[1:30:08] was already zone

[1:30:09] >> just the church so this is the high

[1:30:11] school

[1:30:11] >> they have the high school and a wetlands

[1:30:13] there

[1:30:15] and

[1:30:16] Walmart was before that right

[1:30:19] >> uh Yes. So,

[1:30:21] >> so then in 2006 we did some industrial

[1:30:24] on the back side of the Sherman way kind

[1:30:27] of stuff. Same thing as in 2004. In

[1:30:30] 2009,

[1:30:32] Aony's asked to bring all that in as as

[1:30:37] like light industrial and heavy

[1:30:38] industrial. It's a mix.

[1:30:40] >> And then in 2009,

[1:30:44] um the stuff over by the sewer plant was

[1:30:47] brought in.

[1:30:49] And uh so we haven't had you know and so

[1:30:52] if you think about that sewer plant

[1:30:53] property is one of our multifamily

[1:30:56] pieces that is still not developed. Part

[1:30:59] of the um up there by builder first

[1:31:02] source is high density residential that

[1:31:06] has not been developed. There's

[1:31:10] 21 years on the books and they haven't

[1:31:12] been developed you know. So uh in fact

[1:31:16] the school half of the school where the

[1:31:18] church property is supposed to be for

[1:31:19] school has never been developed. And

[1:31:24] you know, I just think the takeaway

[1:31:26] there that's developing now

[1:31:28] and the other blue one in 2004 is

[1:31:32] developing now.

[1:31:34] It's been 22 years and now they're

[1:31:36] selling houses there, you know. So

[1:31:40] when these requests come in,

[1:31:44] some of this stuff should be what are we

[1:31:47] thinking? in 20 years because we can't

[1:31:48] do all this infill for 20 years. We have

[1:31:51] to at some point bring some in. But

[1:31:52] that's kind of an idea of what what has

[1:31:56] been done.

[1:31:58] And then of course the market tanked in

[1:32:01] 2008.

[1:32:03] And so that's why a lot of those never

[1:32:05] got, you know, people had ambitions and

[1:32:07] they never got started. We can't we

[1:32:10] can't tell what the market's going to

[1:32:11] do.

[1:32:12] Um

[1:32:19] some of it was within the urban growth

[1:32:21] boundary and we annexed it's different

[1:32:24] things for different ones. Some of it

[1:32:25] was annexed and never zoned

[1:32:28] you know.

[1:32:30] So um

[1:32:33] some of it

[1:32:39] » right

[1:32:41] >> well some of it

[1:32:43] >> oh because

[1:32:47] we have unzed

[1:32:50] everything

[1:32:51] transformed into a city

[1:32:54] >> matters

[1:32:57] talking

[1:32:59] >> so Um, and by the way, Merryweather

[1:33:03] is in there in 2005

[1:33:06] and Merryweather went bankrupt and a big

[1:33:10] chunk of that. Phase three is now a

[1:33:13] park, you know, so things change. And

[1:33:16] uh, then there's that piece above

[1:33:18] Merryweather that's in the urban growth

[1:33:21] boundary that's not been

[1:33:25] brought into the city, but it's in the

[1:33:27] urban growth boundary right there. So

[1:33:28] that's was that in the inventories,

[1:33:31] things that are in our in urban growth

[1:33:33] boundary.

[1:33:33] >> That's one of the pieces that I was

[1:33:35] looking for and

[1:33:37] >> and you couldn't find. And then on

[1:33:38] Horseshoe Lake, we have some stuff

[1:33:40] inside our urban growth boundary. Right.

[1:33:44] So that big chunk down there is in our

[1:33:48] urban growth boundary, but not in our

[1:33:49] city limits. And uh you talk about a a

[1:33:53] pressure relief valve for if you just

[1:33:55] want quantity to say we're for it. Um,

[1:34:01] you see it it can be a tool,

[1:34:04] right?

[1:34:06] And so those things are there too. So

[1:34:08] Travis Travis had to go back to a bunch

[1:34:12] of applications and approvals and get

[1:34:13] all of those dates and everything for us

[1:34:15] and then put them together on a map. And

[1:34:23] Was

[1:34:31] all of that west of the railroad tracks

[1:34:34] >> or east of the railroad track?

[1:34:36] >> Yes.

[1:34:41] » Sorry.

[1:34:45] » Not

[1:34:55] out here beyond the church. Yeah, beyond

[1:34:58] the church is all county

[1:35:00] >> and even on the south side across from

[1:35:02] the high school is in the county

[1:35:05] >> and that's not even in the UV

[1:35:16] » that is

[1:35:25] across Freeway from there.

[1:35:44] I've walked my dog down there.

[1:35:59] I don't know of anything. So, is it back

[1:36:03] here towards

[1:36:06] >> where the fields are? There's a there's

[1:36:08] like a little path that runs all along

[1:36:10] the perimeter

[1:36:25] » that's um mitigation.

[1:36:30] So they can maint maint

[1:36:54] is that leg right there. All that leg

[1:36:56] that's north of the school, north of the

[1:36:59] substation

[1:37:00] >> and it's all

[1:37:02] owned by the port wetland mitigation.

[1:37:05] It's a joint

[1:37:07] part of when they dret the river. So

[1:37:11] they can maintain that,

[1:37:15] you know, binding to dredge. So

[1:37:22] I saw a dozer out there, but that's not

[1:37:36] I'm just trying to get

[1:37:47] » Yeah, I can't buy a piece of property

[1:37:49] and do RV parking,

[1:37:51] but um

[1:37:55] Right.

[1:37:58] Just I'm not bitter. I'm just saying.

[1:38:01] Yeah.

[1:38:04] Thank you, Travis. That's um educational

[1:38:08] piece, I think.

[1:38:10] >> Okay. And then on the on the industrial

[1:38:14] and commercial, we'll get to these real

[1:38:16] quick. The commercial property total

[1:38:19] acreage was 296 acres and 2013 there was

[1:38:24] 119.4

[1:38:26] that was vacant although we did have a

[1:38:30] significant chunk of that was approved

[1:38:32] for development. Um and by 2026

[1:38:37] there is still uh 92.66

[1:38:41] acres vacant and there is actually more

[1:38:45] in development,

[1:38:47] but it's expiring so quick I figured I

[1:38:50] would just I mean within a couple months

[1:38:53] it will expire. And this is Logan's

[1:38:55] Landing over there off of Belmont Loop,

[1:38:58] south of Belmont Loop. There's that big

[1:39:00] field there. It's set to expire within a

[1:39:03] month or two, so it's unlikely to

[1:39:06] proceed. So I just dropped it off. But

[1:39:13] » did that include multifamily?

[1:39:16] >> It did. Yep. And that's about to expire.

[1:39:20] Um so we've had 24

[1:39:24] acres of commercial development and that

[1:39:26] includes like the builder for source,

[1:39:29] some other smaller ones here and there,

[1:39:31] but that one is a pretty big chunk of

[1:39:35] our commercial land.

[1:39:37] How are they doing with the rest of that

[1:39:39] with their army engineer per

[1:39:44] they got their stuff back from the

[1:39:46] >> Yes. So like for the critical area

[1:39:50] permit to move that dirt pile that's

[1:39:54] been stacking up forever. They finally

[1:39:57] got it at least sealed off.

[1:40:00] >> Now they're going to

[1:40:03] get widened.

[1:40:05] Eventually the rest of that will be

[1:40:08] widened. You can see that

[1:40:09] >> is there going to be turn lanes here?

[1:40:11] >> That new access point will I think

[1:40:13] eventually have an extra center turn

[1:40:16] lane.

[1:40:17] >> And will we get a turn lane for the

[1:40:19] Chevron into Belmont L? That's getting

[1:40:22] dangerous.

[1:40:24] >> Yeah, I don't know that off the top of my head

[1:40:28] right now.

[1:40:31] I I think we need to have some kind of

[1:40:33] registry for near misses there because,

[1:40:36] you know, people have to shoot out there

[1:40:37] because they can't

[1:40:39] see, especially from the roundabout

[1:40:42] side, anything coming and so they jump

[1:40:44] out in front of people and and I know

[1:40:46] I've had three near misses and I mean

[1:40:50] cram my brakes in the last two months on

[1:40:52] I know I drive that piece a bunch, but

[1:40:56] >> I go the speed limit. You will go around

[1:40:59] me if you saw me. Okay. Oh, here's the

[1:41:02] old man in that Toyota.

[1:41:05] >> You don't know.

[1:41:07] It's blue.

[1:41:10] Are they

[1:41:13] >> okay?

[1:41:13] >> Oh, yeah.

[1:41:16] I'm not the one they complain about

[1:41:17] racing down pay route. Let me tell you

[1:41:19] that.

[1:41:21] >> And then the last one we have here is

[1:41:23] industrial. We have a thousand a little

[1:41:26] over a thousand acres in the city and

[1:41:29] the vacant in 2023 was 9 691 or

[1:41:34] basically 700 acres and a lot of that is

[1:41:38] still in agricultural use. Then there's

[1:41:40] a bunch of open ground that would be

[1:41:42] developable or is developable and um a

[1:41:47] bunch of it was in development in 2023.

[1:41:51] So 218 of those

[1:41:54] have moved into development and that's a

[1:41:58] little deceptive because for example

[1:42:00] Columbia River carbonates is now on the

[1:42:02] other side of peacin huge property and

[1:42:05] it's marked as developed but it's you

[1:42:08] know 60% of the property is still vacant

[1:42:11] but it dropped off for tax coding it is

[1:42:14] considered developed so these are not

[1:42:17] pure numbers but um we still have a

[1:42:21] significant amount of property that is

[1:42:23] development like for example the Traml

[1:42:25] Pro properties with those warehouses

[1:42:28] those are technically not finished and

[1:42:31] so they are still in the inventory as

[1:42:35] develop

[1:42:37] but not vacant so I'm kind of juggling

[1:42:41] these numbers here but it gives you an

[1:42:43] idea basically about 30% of it the

[1:42:47] problem is is that from Treml Crow south

[1:42:51] so I'll switch to the map real Quick

[1:43:08] map. Um

[1:43:12] the So the Traml Crow is in this

[1:43:15] property right here.

[1:43:18] And

[1:43:22] Yep. This is property and

[1:43:27] all the way to here and then we're

[1:43:29] starting to get some development here.

[1:43:32] But the sewer is can only go to this

[1:43:36] point here.

[1:43:39] All of this portion of the city down

[1:43:41] here has no sewer service to it because

[1:43:47] um of elevation issues and the in the

[1:43:51] storm the sewer system. Sorry.

[1:43:55] All of this property here drains north

[1:43:59] through a series of lift stations that

[1:44:02] takes it up to exit 22, comes down 22,

[1:44:05] and then comes down water treatment

[1:44:08] plant which is right here. So, um we are

[1:44:13] at the capacity for this piping system

[1:44:17] and we are going to have to develop this

[1:44:19] land and there's about I want to say 350

[1:44:23] acres south of this point that we're

[1:44:28] going to have to find a new route for

[1:44:29] the sewer for it to ever be developed.

[1:44:33] You're looking at four or five lift

[1:44:35] stations to relay daisy chain to get

[1:44:40] that part of the city online.

[1:44:42] >> Y

[1:44:43] >> but um

[1:44:45] industrial customers can have their own

[1:44:48] wastewater treatment plants.

[1:44:50] You know, there is there is other

[1:44:52] things, but for us to handle it and uh

[1:44:57] whatnot, it's

[1:45:03] until something is done there. It's kind

[1:45:04] of locked up

[1:45:13] as

[1:45:18] I mean where does sewer improvements

[1:45:20] come from?

[1:45:32] We can and we are

[1:45:38] » we're kind of wrestling that with it

[1:45:40] right now because

[1:45:43] we are trying to get Roseway to come

[1:45:45] down to Capes.

[1:45:47] Um so we will have adequate cross

[1:45:50] circulation and the water man comes

[1:45:53] along to this point. So

[1:45:57] the water main would be easily looped on

[1:46:01] this location and this would come down

[1:46:04] that road would come down to capable but

[1:46:06] there's no sewer for it to go into and

[1:46:11] the problem that we have at this north

[1:46:13] end of town is capacity issue through

[1:46:16] the daisy chain of lift stations that we

[1:46:19] have and the wastewater treatment plant.

[1:46:22] We have plenty of capacity

[1:46:25] We just have total suspended solids and

[1:46:28] BOD. So the actual stuff that goes in

[1:46:31] there, we would have to do something

[1:46:34] about getting pre-treatment at the

[1:46:36] industrial users. So for example, Walts

[1:46:39] meets, they have a lot of gunk in their

[1:46:42] discharge. It's not that the discharge

[1:46:44] is too much.

[1:46:47] It is too much for the pipes. But if we

[1:46:50] fix the pipes, it won't make a

[1:46:52] difference because at that point we get

[1:46:55] too much dirty water to the wastewater

[1:46:57] treatment plant. It can take capacity,

[1:46:59] just not the total suspended solids and

[1:47:04] it. So we're trying to figure out, okay,

[1:47:07] how are we going to do that? Right now

[1:47:08] the limiting factor is the lift stations

[1:47:12] and the pipe sizes, how much liquid we

[1:47:14] could get through there.

[1:47:16] Once we get this southbound path to the

[1:47:20] wastewater treatment plant, that will

[1:47:22] free up a ton of liquid capacity in the

[1:47:26] system, which means as we get more

[1:47:28] infill and more development at the north

[1:47:30] end of town. We don't need to make

[1:47:32] improvements because now there's plenty

[1:47:34] of room.

[1:47:36] We have we've created breathing space

[1:47:39] for

[1:47:42] >> what zoning allows data centers.

[1:47:46] Well, we don't have to worry about that

[1:47:48] because we don't have the water capacity

[1:47:50] or the water rights for that. So, we

[1:47:52] won't deal with that.

[1:47:53] >> So, um

[1:47:57] all of that area

[1:48:00] um

[1:48:02] I think it's going to be

[1:48:06] interesting to see how with the Traml

[1:48:08] Crow and some of the big producers we've

[1:48:11] had over there, um how the surface water

[1:48:14] changes and storm surface water because

[1:48:20] um that water that ground doesn't take

[1:48:22] water and you know there's wet bottom

[1:48:25] ponds and things and and there's um

[1:48:30] confusion over who's responsible for our

[1:48:33] storm water and I think we've got some

[1:48:34] things we've got to settle out with that

[1:48:37] as well before my in my opinion is

[1:48:39] before we annex anything

[1:48:43] the city. We've got we've got to know

[1:48:46] how all that's getting handled. And

[1:48:47] that's it seems like our dying district

[1:48:50] doesn't want to be a dying and drainage

[1:48:52] district, but we pay

[1:48:55] for that all the way

[1:48:58] up to

[1:49:00] um

[1:49:02] Belmont Loop and those properties. All I

[1:49:05] know I'm across the street. I don't pay

[1:49:07] into the dining district, but

[1:49:10] you know, we have all seen that flood,

[1:49:11] right? We've all

[1:49:13] some of that you got to go, boy, what's

[1:49:15] going to happen? Well, we're gonna have

[1:49:16] to find out what's going to happen and

[1:49:18] find out how it's going to be handled

[1:49:21] because the best available science

[1:49:24] um doesn't seem like it's perfect. So,

[1:49:30] anyway,

[1:49:31] those are the things we will be looking

[1:49:34] forward to.

[1:49:38] Mr. Bson, anybody else have any

[1:49:40] questions?

[1:49:45] school. No school next

[1:49:52] time.

[1:49:52] >> Ra is over there going. Motion to

[1:49:54] adjourn.

[1:49:56] >> I move to adjourn the planning

[1:49:58] commission.

[1:50:00] All those in favor.

[1:50:02] >> All right. Thank you everybody.

[1:50:05] Shut this off. I don't know if it was

[1:50:07] ever really on.

[1:50:15] Are you let's get personal. Oh, we can't

[1:50:17] talk too much. We um still career man or

[1:50:22] retired or

[1:50:29] school.

[1:50:47] I taught truck driving at heavy at West

[1:50:49] Coast training

Planning Commission - 20 Aug 2026

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