[2:06] silent mode. As a reminder, the board sorry, as a reminder to board members,

[2:09] please avoid side conversations and cross talk. Again, welcome to the

[2:13] meeting. Okay. So, um the first order of business

[2:18] is the adoption of last month's minutes. Um

[2:23] there weren't I mean I don't think there were any major changes that need to be

[2:26] made. So, they are as they appear. Um is someone willing to make a motion to

[2:32] approve the minutes from last month's meeting?

[2:36] » Approve. >> Okay. A second.

[2:37] » Second. >> All those in favor, please raise your

[2:39] hand. >> Okay. Minutes have been approved

[2:42] unanimously. That moves us on to the action items for tonight. So our first

[2:45] of three tonight, the first one is 2025 AR06. Applicant Spencer Hyatt from

[2:51] Signet Tiger Realy has requested approval of new signage at 412 College

[2:56] Avenue. So we will first hear from Jacob.

[2:59] » Sure. So although this property is part of a PD um and the PD ordinance does

[3:05] state that they are going to comply with the um CM zoning district standards and

[3:10] the AR District 2 standards. Um the sign is presented does comply with those

[3:14] standards. The let's see what's in front of you now is just for the o the um

[3:21] residential component of it, not for the individual businesses that'll come in at

[3:24] a later date. It's just for the apartment complex itself. It's channel

[3:29] lit letters with an acrylic face with LED lights. Um as far as recommendations

[3:34] from the staff is just that um a dimmer be placed on it so that we can adjust it

[3:39] if it is too bright. Um, with that I just turn it over to the applicant for

[3:44] their presentation. >> Okay.

[3:48] » Good evening everybody. Um, I believe you all have the the package that was

[3:52] submitted. Um, my name is Spencer Hyatt on behalf of site signic tiger realy. I

[3:58] know this signage as Jacob said is part of kind of a followup from the PD

[4:03] ordinance approval uh part of the overall project. Um we were coming in

[4:08] just for the residential portion of the signage. Um one of the items we kind of

[4:13] wanted to bring to attention um really just from the residential portion we

[4:17] have two illuminated signs uh from on the parapit. Uh both what we wanted to

[4:23] approve kind of achieve was kind of an offset look where we have on the

[4:27] northern portion of the uh west parapit. Uh we have a uh lighting sign that

[4:34] measures 15t 7 in by 3t tall uh running the length there. Um we also have the

[4:42] other identical sign uh on the western portion of the south facade um showing

[4:48] from that uh piece but identical in nature again from a a channel lit kind

[4:53] of 180°ree beam lit angle which you guys kind of know from a from the technical

[4:57] standpoint. We had uh Jacob and the city team review provide any commentary to

[5:02] see where it met. So um with that um open up to any questions. I am very

[5:10] sorry. I should have caught this earlier, but the one facing the

[5:14] neighboring property is not allowed. We only allow made identification one

[5:18] madeification side facing the street itself. We do not have a provision that

[5:22] would allow the one on the side of the building.

[5:24] » Well, aside from that. Okay. >> Yeah.

[5:27] » Yeah. We have both on that facade. So, >> you can only have it facing the street.

[5:32] » Yep. >> So, we'll be looking at that and then

[5:36] the sign over the entryway. Is that correct?

[5:39] » Yes. The sign of the entryway um which you look is kind of the letter the

[5:42] lettering measuring one inch uh or 1 foot 2 in each on the letters. Um what

[5:48] you're looking at I think from color kind of a 6500 K pure white color

[5:54] that we're trying to achieve with kind of a square kind of trying to match what

[5:59] we've seen among some of the other um the other signage within kind of the the

[6:04] College Avenue corridor.

[6:11] Thank you. And then um I just wanted to see if there was any public input on

[6:16] this project. >> Yes, sir.

[6:17] » But feel free ask questions while he's up at the podium.

[6:22] » So what is this uh this P1 or

[6:28] the color? Is it a blue color? >> No, it's a pure white. Now, the frame,

[6:37] » the frame, yes, it is. It is a blue, but the the illumination is is a white, so

[6:41] it matches kind of our our branding blue that we've got.

[6:44] » Uh, but the that is not illuminated. Only the white is illuminated.

[6:48] » Quick question on the enter exit down here. Are those lit as well?

[6:53] » No. >> I guess blue letters.

[6:56] » Just more for uh Yeah, just more for traffic pattern.

[7:00] » Okay. I have a fundamental question.

[7:05] » Why do we allow lighted signs on the top of tall buildings in this town? I mean,

[7:11] it begins to look like uh Las Vegas around here with all these housing. You

[7:17] know, I just have a blanket opposition to lighted

[7:21] signs on the top of tall buildings in this town. It's just it to me it's just

[7:26] trashy. And I don't know why anyone needs a sign on the on the top of the

[7:31] building. I could understand a sign at the entrance

[7:34] um to let people know where to go, but I mean really

[7:40] it's just I'm I'm opposed to but it's a blanket thing. I know it's within the

[7:44] zoning ordinance right now, but I do think it's something that we should

[7:47] address as a as a as a city.

[7:54] Every every tall residential building now has one on it. And it's like a

[7:58] competition of of lighted signs.

[8:03] I don't know what purpose they serve other than as an advertisement. It's

[8:06] like a billboard. >> I think that's purpose advertisement.

[8:10] » Yeah. But so does every hotel, but that's easier to find the hotels, I

[8:15] guess. >> So

[8:18] » highway hotels, one thing, but urban hotels.

[8:20] » Yeah. What is the color that this is against?

[8:25] Um I think in the future it'd be good color rendering

[8:31] the context of the colors that these signs

[8:34] » would be a gray facade as we were showing here. But that's a that's a good

[8:37] point just to kind of show exactly what the the color is behind it that's kind

[8:41] of backing up to this because these are kind of mounted against the facade

[8:44] itself. Uh specifically on the parapit,

[8:49] » do you know off hand which Yeah, it's the exact same. It's the dark

[8:52] gray that's um that's showing on that that hard corner part of the uh I think

[8:58] the pal the mockup we just uh we just went through.

[9:03] So also looking at the smaller sign, I mean you

[9:10] sign is is simplistic in nature and requires line

[9:17] to be understood during the daylight and your the

[9:23] supports going between the letters on your stack sign

[9:27] » um definitely doesn't help with the understanding.

[9:30] So, I would I would recommend that those match the color of whatever the

[9:36] background structure is or something. >> I mean, is the board just

[9:42] » I don't know what the rest of the the board thinks, but I feel like during the

[9:47] daytime >> look like

[9:50] » you start seeing a lot of extra blue lines.

[9:55] » I might be old, but I'm I was still trying to figure out what it said. I

[10:00] think it'd be I think it'd be a more clear expression if it were a not the

[10:06] same color as the letters. >> So, or if they released thinner so they

[10:11] want the same line weight, we'll say, of the the outline of each letter, it was

[10:16] say half the thickness.

[10:20] No talk to the sign design company and just give them that feedback and they

[10:24] may

[10:28] » I don't understand why it's not on a solid field

[10:34] just have a square field around you know behind the signs uh the letters

[10:39] » it's sitting on the awning correct or is it against

[10:42] » on the awning? Yeah, there's kind of a it's a bracket kind of pedestal

[10:46] bracketing um that's kind of coming up from the top of the

[10:52] » Yeah, similar to what was that the FS boutique that went

[10:54] » Yeah. Yeah. there. >> Oh, there's mounted up on the awning.

[10:58] » That could be a whole plate behind there. It doesn't have to be bars.

[11:04] » Going back to the one on the college or the large one with parapit. Are the four

[11:08] letters individual letters mounted to the Okay. Okay. So, there is no backing

[11:12] or anything. >> No backing.

[11:13] » Okay.

[11:18] » But those letters are 5 in deep. It looks like the side profile is 5 in. Is

[11:24] that >> Yeah, that's correct. The side profile

[11:26] of each. >> Yeah, it's a huge sign.

[11:32] » Well, it it's a huge sign, but at 40t in the air, it's going to look pretty

[11:37] small. >> I'm sorry. Not

[11:43] » did say it's

[11:48] » and it's going to be a sorry >> we're limited to 3ft tall letters at

[11:52] that height >> and only buildings that are 40t tall are

[11:56] allowed to have >> three foot is a massive size.

[11:59] » Yeah. >> Do you understand how big those letters

[12:02] are? >> Yeah. If but again like you said it had

[12:04] to be 40t tall to have that big. >> It's doesn't need to be 3t.

[12:10] Okay, >> we can look into changing that.

[12:12] » So, I'm a little confused. I'm looking at the side view on the upper side.

[12:19] » And is it 5 in of white? So, it looks like there's 3 in of blue.

[12:27] And then it's not just the face that glows, it's actually the whole side

[12:33] profile that glows as well. >> I'm sorry, which uh which sheet you got?

[12:37] I just want to make sure I'm following along with you. 22.

[12:41] » Yeah. So up here, >> so you have the the blue right there and

[12:46] then five inches of white acrylic here.

[12:50] » Mhm. >> Is that is that is that all glowing as

[12:53] well? >> It's just if you will look at the actual

[12:57] letters on page bear with me. We should have kind of an actual

[13:02] illumination key. I think that's shown just the white is

[13:06] going to be eliminated and not the not the blue,

[13:09] » right? >> So that's kind of the key.

[13:11] » Right. But is the 5 in exposure on the sides of the white letters actually

[13:16] glowing? >> They will. So it's 180°ree kind of show.

[13:20] Um so but it'll kind of dim as it kind of turns. So if you're looking from the

[13:24] side, you will be able to see that is it is illuminated. So it's not just front

[13:28] facing. Is that what you're asking? >> So So the blue doesn't border on the

[13:31] sides, it just moves from the back. It's just a background like that.

[13:35] » So, it's just the white that's illuminated. The blue is not. But you'll

[13:38] see the white from the side. >> Get that.

[13:40] » Yeah. >> I'm

[13:43] seems a little much. >> Yeah.

[13:46] » I can see the blue turning. >> Yeah. Can we have the blue border it on

[13:50] the sides? >> Block that sidelight.

[13:55] » Probably accent the blue a little bit better.

[13:57] Like because if you start thinking about I mean your letters

[14:02] are probably going to be about five inches or so wide and then you add 5 in

[14:09] there. Nothing visually is going to >> as as you're viewing from the side,

[14:14] nothing is going to differentiate between the side and the face,

[14:18] » right? >> You know, you may have a little bit

[14:20] thicker, but I'm guessing it's sheet and sheet of of white. And so the only thing

[14:27] that's going to stand out is probably the adhesive line

[14:31] » if you even see that. So that's a 10-in thick visual

[14:37] like that becomes I think it it will blur and and not

[14:44] actually make it legible. So, it's saying it's better to have the

[14:49] blue have the blue kind of >> block off the sides so everything is

[14:56] » Yep. >> to one level instead of having the blue

[15:00] behind and the white in front. >> I mean, cuz that honestly that that

[15:04] white letter doesn't need to come out that far at all. It it could come out

[15:10] maybe an inch and a half. All it has to do is clear the LEDs.

[15:18] So, I I think that's completely excessive as far as how far that sticks

[15:23] out. >> And especially the glowing at night.

[15:27] During the day, not a big deal, but at night, that's going to be

[15:33] I don't think that's going to work.

[15:40] And then the photos of the blue bar that it sits on is going to be painted the

[15:44] color of the >> that's all that all sits within the blue

[15:47] cabinet. >> Correct.

[15:49] » Nathan, make sure I'm understand your comments. So, it's is it because of the

[15:53] three the 3 in plus the 5 in? Uh >> I don't mind the 3-in blue because that

[15:59] 3 in is basically your blue cabinet. What what I'm opposed to and I'm I'm not

[16:05] speaking for the whole board is I just want to make sure

[16:08] » is the five inch lit profile of the letters

[16:14] » because you're not just lighting the front. So yes, it's very nice that you

[16:19] showed what it's going to look like at night lit. What you're not showing is

[16:25] the extra five inches of that leather that's being lit on the side

[16:30] » that's competing with the front, >> right?

[16:33] So,

[16:36] if you're not looking straight on that sign, which no one's 40t tall looking

[16:41] straight on that sign, it's going to be looking like you've had a few too many

[16:47] beers because it's going to be this weird angled blur. And I don't one I

[16:55] think it's going to be annoying. Two, I don't think it's going to be successful.

[16:59] Would you think the fact we do have we don't have a cut off the way we're set

[17:04] up on the side and it's kind of goes a full 180 degrees from where it's uh

[17:09] projecting out. Condensing that would that make it a little like a little bit

[17:13] more of a cute and kind of how it's projecting because I think we just kept

[17:16] it completely open and eliminated on all sides. Would that kind of bringing that

[17:20] off to where it's protruding maybe just more directly

[17:25] help a little bit? I don't know if I understood what you

[17:29] just said. >> So, not coming out as far five inches.

[17:32] Is that what you're saying? >> Correct. And so, therefore, you're not

[17:35] having as much of the >> side profile

[17:37] » the side profile bleed or, you know, from how that's projecting.

[17:43] » I mean, I think it could be an inch and a half. I think all they have to do is

[17:48] clear the LEDs. >> Yeah.

[17:50] » And I would be okay if it was lit at an inch and a half. I think if they needed

[17:55] more space, then it needed to be a different color. It needed to be painted

[18:00] blue or >> or extend the border all the way out to

[18:02] » done it blue or do something. >> I think if you can keep it shallow, the

[18:07] light off the sides is more effective. >> Yeah. Tolerable loss.

[18:13] » Yeah, I believe our minimum tolerance is at least an inch and a half, but we'll

[18:16] have to add a little bit for the wee pole at the bottom to give some

[18:18] breathing room because I think the LED backing is what about

[18:24] I think that was what close to an inch and then another half an inch on

[18:29] sidewalls. So, we'd have to compress it down. We can look to compress it down a

[18:34] little bit, but we'll just see what the the minimum tolerances would be to make

[18:37] sure it's still functioning properly. [Music]

[18:57] And I may have missed it. Have any other

[19:01] signs been submitted? Any other businesses for retail?

[19:07] » Retail? >> Not yet. Yep.

[19:11] » So, here's and I guess this is to the board more

[19:15] than to you. I want to make sure that with approving

[19:21] the business sign, this being the first one, we set a

[19:27] standard for the rest of the businesses that are going in there

[19:32] to to hold everything to. Because if we start stacking and we have all these

[19:38] other businesses, not every business is going to have a sign that, you know, can

[19:46] stack and fit a certain way, you know, on on top of this overhang.

[19:52] Um, you know, every other business has an awning. Like, how do we want

[19:59] the rest of these to feel? So I think we have to keep that in mind.

[20:09] » Well, I mean in my opinion the sign that is the address for the

[20:16] building is as a whole the residential part probably can be distinctive from

[20:21] the signs for the commercial businesses. Again I don't see any need for a sign

[20:26] anything other than at the entrance. Um but um

[20:34] I think we just have to take those one at a time. But

[20:38] » I agree. I mean you want you wouldn't want some signs sitting out on the

[20:40] awnings and some >> you know on the brick,

[20:44] » right? >> Like it would just get too busy.

[20:46] » Now Bixby be across the street. You guys

[20:49] approved a signed package basically said you know these are the criteria and the

[20:54] individual businesses didn't go in front of you guys. It was the whole overall

[20:58] there's basically a I don't know an area over each commercial unit where they go

[21:01] and they have to be the cattle letters. >> So all the stores shown here that are

[21:06] crossed out in red >> in this. But

[21:09] » we're we're not we're not doing the commercial at this time.

[21:11] » No, I understand. But what they're showing is above the awning on the

[21:18] » facade of the building. >> Yes.

[21:20] » So that is where those are supposed to go in the future. Is that a

[21:28] general correct statement? >> Again, we haven't got a formal

[21:32] submission, but that's what's been rendered so far. I

[21:35] » mean, some of them could put their signage on the windows

[21:39] » and not up there. >> Right.

[21:42] » So, we would just set the president with the first business that comes before us,

[21:46] right? >> I mean, it's unless they want to come

[21:48] back with like a signed package and say this is going to be basic criteria and

[21:52] they're and then they hold it at once, but or you do it case by case. Either

[21:55] way,

[22:04] » I just want to make sure we don't get seven different styles of signs.

[22:08] » Well, you can see a lot of corp a lot of franchises and corporate uh

[22:13] um business going in. They're going to have their own logos going in. So, the

[22:16] signs are going to be different as long as you keep it within the same size

[22:19] constraints, right? I >> think it's the only thing we can do. But

[22:22] you know just the way these franchises have logo designs are going to be

[22:26] different. >> Would the dimmer make any difference on

[22:30] the lighting on the side? >> Not on the side prof not on my opinion

[22:35] of the side profile. I mean it will on the you know effect from above you know

[22:41] being able to see it.

[22:47] I think it was Jimmy Johnson. You guys think that you required the edge of of

[22:51] the sign to be solid so just light shine through.

[22:58] So, what I'm hearing is when it comes to the sign over the awning at the

[23:02] entrance, we would like for, for lack of a better term, the bracing between the

[23:07] letters to be painted a color similar to the background in the

[23:12] building or explore maybe putting it just on a

[23:16] panel. I don't know if there's a preference either way among the board.

[23:20] And then when it comes to the sign up at the parapit, the idea of bringing in

[23:25] that front face to make it more shallow in order to still allow the light

[23:31] through the side. Um but explore is how shallow can that be? Right. As shallow

[23:36] as possible and still clear the LEDs and have the weep hole. Um was there and

[23:41] then the dimmer of course. Was there anything else that was

[23:44] » the location on the south facade? Um because that's not compliant. Correct.

[23:51] » Now, how do y'all feel if the sidewalls are not

[23:56] because they do call it something different? I just don't know based on

[24:02] this drawing. If the sidewalls are not transparent,

[24:06] are you all okay with it at 5 in or >> I'm not okay with the sign period. So,

[24:12] » okay. So, I want to make eye contact with you.

[24:14] » If it blocks the side 100%, it comes all the way out into blue and blocks the

[24:18] light. It could be as deep as it needs. I'm fine with the five if it were

[24:23] » as long as we cut the right >> as long as we cut the side light out

[24:26] » channel to the front. >> I think that would accomplish what we're

[24:31] » Yeah. >> putting forward.

[24:33] » So, does that make sense? >> It does. I think so.

[24:36] » Because they call it a 063 sidewall, >> right?

[24:41] » They're not calling it out as acrylic. >> Mhm. which makes me second guess whether

[24:47] it is opaque >> or metal

[24:51] » or transparent >> or metal.

[24:54] » Right. >> It just says white returns.

[24:57] » So >> did you see just the sidewalls are

[24:59] painted details >> is what it's saying. So

[25:02] » details suggest that it's metal. >> It's a metal enclosure with a white with

[25:08] an acrylic face.

[25:12] That's so because it doesn't specify the material, but if you look at the

[25:17] drawing, the material on the sidewalls on the perimeter are the same thickness

[25:23] as the backing. So, it's like a metal pan with an

[25:28] acrylic face.

[25:32] » So, in that case, we want it to be the blue.

[25:38] Yeah, I think so.

[25:46] » I mean, anything to make the sign less obtrusive and garish.

[25:54] » Okay. So, I would say if it's if it's if it's not if it's metal and it's not

[26:02] transparent, the depth doesn't matter, >> right?

[26:05] » If it's if it's if If if the face panel wraps the sides,

[26:12] which this detail does not clearly show, definitely does not show, then it should

[26:17] be thinner. But um so if we approve it as it's detailed,

[26:24] then we specify that the sidewalls are metal

[26:28] » or just opaque. >> Opaque.

[26:31] So,

[26:36] is there any other feedback or comments before we move forward?

[26:42] » Okay. So, I'm going to read out where I feel like the the board is and then

[26:47] we'll be looking for a motion that um the signage will first of all the south

[26:51] facing sign is gone because that's not permissible. the sign over the entryway

[26:56] on the first floor. We want that um bracing to be a color that matches the

[27:02] background versus the blue that the lettering is in. And then that the um

[27:06] signage and the parapit will be if it is opaque on the sides that it be the blue

[27:12] that matches the um the blue backing. But if it is translucent, then it

[27:19] becomes more shallow, just enough to clear the LED lights and allow for a wee

[27:24] pole and of course dimmers as well. Um, would

[27:29] anybody like to make a motion for that?

[27:33] » So moved. >> Second.

[27:37] » All those in favor, please raise your right hand.

[27:41] » Okay. with one abstain or one against opposed.

[27:46] Okay, thank you very much. >> Thank you. Appreciate it.

[27:52] » Okay, so that moves us to our second action item. Uh 2025 A05. Applicant Zeve

[27:59] Josman or Josman, I'm sorry, is requesting approval of a new Papa Bear

[28:03] car wash at 890 Tiger Boulevard. So, we'll hear from Jacob first. Um, well,

[28:09] they've already in front of you once since the last time. The only thing that

[28:13] I just want to bring up is, you know, I drove by the one in Anderson and just

[28:17] noticed a lot of flashing lights on it and string light going around it. And,

[28:21] you know, our does not allow for string lights or flashing lights. So, I just

[28:26] kind of want to put the applicant on record that, you know, that's no flash.

[28:32] And with that, I'll turn over the the applicant to tell us what if any changes

[28:36] have been made and to um go through the application.

[28:44] » Good evening. >> Hey, good evening.

[28:45] » And if you do state your name before you start presenting and

[28:48] » Sure. I'm Craig Condro with the Arbor Companies and

[28:53] I think we address all the comments that you guys had on the last one. Then I've

[28:57] got the sample board and the stone sample as well.

[29:05] This one's kind of heavy.

[29:10] » That's great. >> Thank you, sir. Sorry.

[29:25] They don't make those any smaller, do they?

[29:29] » I'll

[29:34] think. >> What slide you want to go to?

[29:40] » You can actually go back. the actual

[29:46] I think the main comments were had around the wall. So we have a 12 wall in

[29:51] the back showing the siding also metal cap on the top

[29:57] similar to the mat wash area

[30:02] all the canopies are right at 12 foot but they match the same height so they

[30:07] look consistent throughout the entire site as the back canopies as well as the

[30:12] pay station building and also the detail canopy cars

[30:18] come going into the back of the building

[30:30] and then did bunch of renderings looking from all four corners.

[30:36] You had a question about Holly Avenue and Holiday East in the back corner of

[30:42] the property. What would it look like with the wall in the back

[30:47] and also on the front corner. Basically, all four corners of the building to look

[30:53] see what it looks like from the road. We try to keep elevation as close to eye

[30:58] level as possible so it's >> reflective what you see from

[31:09] the back wall. The coloring, that's the actual color, but the the lighting and

[31:16] blue is a little bit difficult to get. >> Yeah, the color.

[31:21] » It's a darker green color. >> What What's the color of the trim?

[31:25] Because I don't see that color represent.

[31:27] » The trim is actually that lighter color on the top.

[31:30] » This white. >> Yes.

[31:32] » Yeah. >> Cuz it's shown as dark like red.

[31:35] » Oh, I'm that that matches the canopy. The wood color. It's the same stain

[31:41] color. >> Yes.

[31:42] » Yes. >> So, it's actually like a bronze.

[31:45] » Yeah. It's It's an opaque stain. Um it's an art opaque stain.

[31:57] So, this is stained hill country color. Is that the

[32:01] » that one stain?

[32:17] That's the same colors as

[32:31] I'm just wondering are these brand specific colors?

[32:35] » Yes. Yeah, they've got five different locations.

[32:39] » And one just point of clarity now, you're going to come back later for the

[32:43] sign package. >> Yeah, that's

[32:45] » because the signs have been different on different renders.

[32:47] » Yeah, that's just a placeholder on the side.

[32:49] » That's fine. Get you started and then come back in.

[32:52] » Okay.

[33:12] Can you just walk me really quickly through that wall that faces the

[33:15] residential neighborhood behind? I see it called out, but I just want to make

[33:19] sure I'm seeing it correctly. So, it's a masonry wall, right?

[33:24] » Um, so just talk about how that's finished for me so I can make sure I

[33:27] have a clear. it it'll be painted on the inside of the site and then on the

[33:32] outside will be the same siding. The corner and the back will all be the same

[33:36] siding, the same green siding >> and then have a metal cap on top of it,

[33:41] you know, to cover the siding in the in the bar.

[33:45] » This here is the detail for that wall. >> But it's that

[33:49] » it's got siding on it even though it's mason,

[33:52] » but it's more that buttermilk green color.

[33:55] » It's it's not the >> that Yeah.

[34:00] » Now, is the siding on both sides both facing the residential and the inside?

[34:03] » No, it's just on the outside. >> Just on the outside.

[34:07] » Got it.

[34:13] » Um,

[34:17] Mr. Chairman, I I was not present at the previous meeting. What was the

[34:25] consensus or input that they came back with specifically

[34:30] that the board or issues that the board had at the last meeting? Um there

[34:35] weren't really a lot of issues per se other than we talked about the um

[34:40] awnings being at the same height. We wanted to make sure that um all the

[34:45] noise making machinery was housed within the building.

[34:49] Um we did talk about that back wall. We did not get into vegetation though. We

[34:53] did not talk about that. But in terms of overall like plan, it was really just

[34:58] clarifying questions asked. There weren't any.

[35:02] » Yeah, that's the article for the meeting was more not that something had to be

[35:05] changed, more things had to be clarified >> because we had some audience members who

[35:09] asked some questions for clarity and we do have some public comment as well, but

[35:12] was mainly just getting clarity on a couple of things. There there wasn't

[35:16] really any direction. the there was just some concerns about

[35:20] the queueing of the cars, which I think the plan demonstrates how that happens.

[35:25] » Oh, and we wanted more renderings of what it looked like approaching it.

[35:32] » Thank you. >> Now, we did get two uh emails in public

[35:35] comments on this one. Um I think one of them was probably ahead of time and we

[35:40] got one today. >> I only have the one from

[35:42] » Well, we got the one from Raj that was sent in earlier with the application.

[35:46] I've got one from Stephanie. >> This is just the We only see one here.

[35:51] » You don't have it. >> Okay. Well,

[35:53] » check the folder. >> It was

[35:56] We got a copy. >> Yeah, they got a copy of it. It was sent

[35:58] out. >> We have a copy of it sent out with the

[36:00] stat, right? >> But basically, the property owner of

[36:04] Ruby Tuesdays said that they're concerned with noise in the future.

[36:07] » Oh, yeah. We got that emailed to us, >> correct? Yes.

[36:09] » You guys got that email to you a while ago.

[36:11] » Got it. >> So, that was their concern with noise

[36:14] for future development. I'll be completely honest with you. Guy who owns

[36:17] it does hotels. So I think he's worried about you know future um you know if he

[36:22] does a hotel there um you know noise from it in

[36:26] » any any businesses like St. Residential under the same noise order and so they'd

[36:30] have to adhere to everything you know that we all adhere to downtown

[36:35] » or nois put the vacuums upstairs inside the building as well. Well, the way the

[36:39] noise orders reach is 24/7. You got to make sure you don't from 100 ft from the

[36:45] source. It cannot be sustained over 90 dB or over 90 dB intermittently over a 5

[36:50] minute period. Um, after 10:30 you it doesn't matter after 10:30 to 7:00 a.m.

[36:56] If we hear anything, somebody can go and complain. So, if there I don't I doubt

[37:00] you guys are open 24/7. So, as long as there's no noise after 10:30 at night

[37:05] » and somebody's washing your car at 4 in the morning, you might want to go check

[37:08] the trunk.

[37:12] » The equipment does shut down when you close.

[37:14] » Yes. >> And how about the lighting? Is the

[37:18] lighting on the property shut down or other than like security lighting?

[37:24] » Yeah. Yeah. So, we can we >> you can come up and

[37:27] » we have full control over all the lighting. We can do whatever you guys

[37:30] ask us to do when it comes to lighting. The only thing that will be on are the

[37:33] street lamps that are in the parking lot and lighting underneath the vacuum area.

[37:38] Um we can have it turn off. That's not like we can set timers. Like we have

[37:43] timers on everything now. Um we just like for instance Anderson allows us to

[37:48] have the lights on. So, when it comes to crime and homelessness, going through

[37:53] and undoing cyclones and going through our trash and stuff like that, it does

[37:57] kind of thwart that. Um, so that we can put anything on a timer

[38:03] though that you guys want. And I just want to clarify. I'm sorry.

[38:08] 100 ft 90. >> You can you can look it up on the

[38:11] website. It's under orders. >> Yeah, I just sent it to you guys.

[38:13] » Just want to make sure. I believe we were under 80 um in our other locations.

[38:18] That's thing. We can run a sound test for you guys. It's no problem.

[38:22] » Great. >> Um I'm just going to go ahead and just

[38:24] read the other public input and then we can get into some specifics. Um so this

[38:30] is from Stephanie Platt who is um a resident in Clemson that says, "I oppose

[38:35] the idea of building another car wash in the city of Clemson. We have enough car

[38:39] washes already. I would rather see a city parking garage at this location so

[38:43] people would have easier access to the businesses on 123. If you want car

[38:48] washes, let these massive student housing projects have these have these

[38:52] » own for their have them for their own residents.

[38:56] » So,

[39:01] [Music] financial

[39:05] » we probably rent out all the storage facility there.

[39:08] » I mean, I I would be interested in the idea of the lighting because it is ab

[39:11] budding so much residential property. I mean I but we need safety and security

[39:15] but I also would like to minimize you know how much light is

[39:20] agree to put them in on timers and then if in the future if it's requested we

[39:24] can you know adjust the time

[39:31] all the pillars have up down lighting um that we typically for us at least

[39:43] You said all the pillars. >> I'm sorry.

[39:48] » Yeah, the columns. >> The columns have

[39:50] » like for all >> those have up

[39:54] there. Not all the posts like for the >> No, no, no. That's just under lighting

[39:59] under the canopies and stuff. But on all those columns, we have an up down light.

[40:03] That's >> okay.

[40:04] » Color. >> We can make it any color,

[40:06] » right? Okay.

[40:10] » That's not on the on the back side. It's only on the side facing the vacuum

[40:14] machines, right? >> Yeah. It's on the the front and the side

[40:16] facing the car. >> Yeah. In the back, I believe.

[40:19] » Yeah. I think they're show two shown on there. But if

[40:22] » right here, >> they don't put out much light, but if if

[40:25] you're concerned about res,

[40:29] » but there's none shown on this side here.

[40:32] » Right. >> There's one.

[40:33] » Not on the Ruby. Yeah. on the roof >> which is the Ruby TC side.

[40:36] » Yeah. You look in the elevation on the right side on the top.

[40:41] » Oh, you know there are actually shown here. There's in the light.

[40:45] » I can take this off. There's no need for me to be on that side.

[40:49] » Yeah.

[40:59] And so just to reiterate what Jacob was saying earlier and I've seen car washes

[41:02] where there's light that reflects off the suds, right? So no flashing or

[41:06] multiolor lights or rope lights or anything like that.

[41:10] » Well, throughout the day there would be. >> But is is that all interior?

[41:15] » Yeah, that's all inside the car wash. >> But is is it like facing out the end of

[41:18] it or is it like >> No. So like there like they're above the

[41:21] windows inside to provide the show inside the car wash. So when you drive

[41:25] by, you're going to see some lighting from the show during the day.

[41:32] » The end is where the blowers are that's facing the street. So all the lights

[41:38] inside the tunnel behind the blowers, there's big arches, they have blowers

[41:43] that would kind of block the view of any lights that you can see.

[41:47] » Yes. You don't like physically see the light itself. You just see the the the

[41:51] the color. It's not At night it's a show, but during the day

[41:57] it's >> What time you guys are going to be

[41:59] closing? >> 8 o'clock.

[42:00] » Okay. So, you won't have to work one night. So,

[42:02] » yeah. Only in December and January. >> Is that Is that an issue at all?

[42:08] » Well, I mean, we don't It's mostly exterior. I don't think we really

[42:12] regulate the flashing lights inside because then we'd have to start doing it

[42:14] for like bars and stuff like that. We've never gotten that before. It's external

[42:19] lights. You can't have flashing and rope lights. Um, and I I think it, you know,

[42:24] can only be on when someone's going through it. We don't want it to be

[42:27] shining just all the time. >> Yeah. I go to Mod Wash all the time and

[42:30] now I went there today. You can't even see it when you're outside.

[42:33] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[42:34] » It's real. I mean, during the day, it's real that, you know, the the thing about

[42:37] is at night and we're happy. >> You guys have a lot more open

[42:41] » windows. >> Windows.

[42:42] » Again, we can shut them off at 8:00 when we close if that's what

[42:47] we need to do. Yeah, I would definitely say the

[42:51] flashing lights get shut off on you guys.

[42:54] I just don't want the other one is bright. Are

[42:58] » those all windows on the side open? >> No, it's but it's windows all the way

[43:04] down the side. The very last one in the back that can be opened during the

[43:08] summer. That's where the car enters onto the conveyor. There's no equip equipment

[43:14] right there. It's just where they bring it. If it gets really hot, they'll open

[43:18] the door. It's a rolling door. >> Yes.

[43:21] » That's basically on the property line.

[43:35] So,

[43:38] I'm the one that gets to deal with plants.

[43:43] Uh, you have a note here. um along Holiday Avenue

[43:49] row screening uh one shrub every 3 ft. Uh but the shrub you're using is

[43:58] a shrub that stays small. So I'm wondering

[44:03] what you're screening or is it just meant to be a row of shrubs?

[44:10] When I think screening, I think five, six feet tall.

[44:15] Um there's a requirement for a three-foot BM on there and then those be

[44:21] on top of

[44:30] » I don't think you have a foot BM there. >> Hey, I'm Jared St. Yes. There is a

[44:36] requirement for a car wash to have a threeoot BM on every street bridge. So

[44:42] » which on this plan would be the left, the bottom and the right.

[44:46] » So you don't show that as a cont. It's not a grading plan. So it's called

[44:52] out on the site plan. Um survey done yet to be fair. So there is

[45:00] no of that in there yet. But that's what the code request

[45:06] conditions allow a car wash and whatever this is. Would be nice to see

[45:13] section through there. It shows if the shrubs are

[45:19] uh like the bottom of that burm or sitting on the top of that burm or you

[45:23] know and it would be it would be good to see a section through there from the

[45:29] curb out into the into the canopy area.

[45:36] [Music] I think they're along the sidewalks to

[45:40] kind of provide some separation. >> I understand. But you understand that if

[45:44] a if a small shrub is at the base of the burm versus at the top of the burm, it's

[45:50] going to provide a different screening function. It won't provide any screening

[45:53] function as Nathan pointed out just a shrub. And then if it's at the bottom of

[45:58] the burm, it also won't provide any screening function. You see what I'm

[46:01] saying? I get it. But >> I don't I don't think we want to provide

[46:04] a three-ft tall burm than a six foot tall bush on top of that. either.

[46:08] » Well, I I'm saying it could be a shorter bush if it's on the top of the burm. If

[46:12] it's >> right, if it's

[46:13] » so based on its proximity to the sidewalk, the the likelihood that it's

[46:19] on top of a 3-ft burm, >> it is not. I would say it's definitely

[46:22] not on top of the burm there because that burm

[46:25] » is basically like at the at the bottom left hand side of that page. It's 12

[46:29] feet from the sidewalk. >> So, basically your sod would be the

[46:34] burm, >> right? What from what my understand so

[46:37] what I'm thinking is if that shrub layer got moved back to on top of your burm

[46:43] and your sod layer came up next to your sidewalk one it it's less of a pruning

[46:50] maintenance issue because you're not trying to always keep holl

[46:58] your BMS act and your plantings are working together to accomplish the

[47:03] intent of the burm planting combination. >> Um, I do have a question about this

[47:10] area. So, as we're I have had a topographic

[47:15] survey done since we did this and I got it back like last week. So, we've been

[47:18] working on this in our office this week. This area is about roughly right now two

[47:22] foot above the sidewalk. So, is a three-foot BM

[47:27] 3T like if the if the back of the curb is 3 feet above the sidewalk or is it

[47:31] supposed to be three foot up and then three foot back down? I'm I'm asking. It

[47:36] says threeight. It's pretty loose, right? So, if it's just total if the if

[47:40] the vacuum spaces were 3 ft above the sidewall there and we had bushes, you

[47:46] know, closer to the vacuums, I guess, to to screen along along there. Is that is

[47:50] that the same intent? >> Let's see. That's where the section

[47:52] comes in handy. I don't if you're saying the vacuum the paving at the vacuum is 3

[47:59] foot above the sidewalk >> to

[48:03] » it's a generic question. >> I mean that's where the section would

[48:06] help us. >> If you look at the matwash enclosure

[48:09] area >> I I put bushes there. Those those bushes

[48:12] are 3 foot tall. It's on A103B.

[48:18] » Like I said it's just a section would be helpful.

[48:20] » I 100%. It doesn't show a burm at all. You see what we're saying?

[48:25] » Right. Right there. If you look on the >> I understand. Yeah. I'm looking at Yeah.

[48:30] But there's no burm there. >> Yeah. The the burm would be this side of

[48:33] the those bushes. And if the bushes I think show two foot minimum height is

[48:41] what it shows. >> You would actually see the burn on the

[48:44] inside. All I'm saying is I think a section would make it so that we all

[48:49] have a mutual understanding of what you're doing there.

[48:52] » But going back to that earlier question, I would think the intent is you want

[48:55] height above. >> I would assume the property

[48:59] » that the that the burm was going to be 3 ft above where the general, you know,

[49:04] parking lot >> no matter where it lands on the sidewalk

[49:08] side. >> Correct.

[49:09] » The idea is that you're >> Yeah,

[49:13] that's why I'm asking. It doesn't say that the intent of the BM it doesn't say

[49:16] that the intent of the BM is to do X or Y. And I'm okay with it either way. I'm

[49:20] just I'm just trying to as we as we really working through this,

[49:25] » you know, this is a schematic set of plans.

[49:27] » I think the thoughts were that um in general car washes have a you know a lot

[49:32] of cars parked in them and the vacuums are usually considered ugly. So it's

[49:35] basically a way to screen the usually car wash considered off level and it was

[49:41] an idea of screening more of the whole thing from view. So the idea is that the

[49:46] burm would be above and then the plantings on that and then the you know

[49:49] the development will be down below. >> That's what I thought. I'm just

[49:53] » yeah I need to adjust it and >> yeah I just want to make sure you know

[49:57] it creates a little bit of a drainage problem.

[49:59] » Yeah. Truthfully, but I do see that >> it's going to be a little it's going to

[50:02] be a little tricky at the front where we have a side where the we have the

[50:05] sidewalk coming out um to Tiger Boulevard.

[50:09] » Yeah. I mean, we understand I mean there's obviously

[50:13] potentially have retaining wall and you know sidewalk goes through it.

[50:16] Obviously, the sidewalk's not going to go over the burl,

[50:18] » right? >> Yeah. We we got we get there's going to

[50:20] be >> I just want you know we also have a sign

[50:22] out there and it's for our conversation is pretty much right on the rideway.

[50:27] » Mhm. And that's okay, too. Um, I don't think your

[50:33] » BM tapered into the BM. It's cutting into

[50:36] the BM, right? >> It would be in this scenario. Yes. And

[50:39] and I'm okay with doing that. I just I don't think you want the sign on top of

[50:42] the BM. So, >> no, there's a whole other regulation

[50:46] about that, too. >> Okay. I'm not trying to do that.

[50:49] » Let's not get into signage today. We'll resubmit for that.

[50:53] » Yeah. We don't not here for signage. I'm just saying as a section would be

[50:56] helpful and having us all have a mutual understanding of what you're doing

[50:59] there. >> Understood.

[51:00] » Okay. >> Got it.

[51:02] » And it seems to me that the BM side is harder to maintain than because it's all

[51:09] slope. Um but anyway, um yeah, let let's rethink that area. But overall, I mean,

[51:15] it's a very thorough set of drawings. You know, it's probably one of the nicer

[51:20] car washes I've ever seen. uh potentially. Um and so I mean I think

[51:26] that's main my main concern is what what what happens there.

[51:30] » I have a question too about the trees. I have a per I'm not a landscape architect

[51:34] to be 100% clear. I hate when I see a tree island that has

[51:40] a buttressing I think is the word where they build up the tree island three or

[51:43] four feet and then put a tree at the top of that. Is that what you want to see?

[51:47] Is the tree on the top of this burm as well? Are you looking for bushes on top

[51:51] of the burm and tree at the bottom of the b?

[51:52] » I would rather the trees be on the bottom of the burm and the shrubs that

[51:57] are evergreen be at the top of the burm. >> Did I say that correctly?

[52:02] » I think you did. >> Maybe. Um

[52:04] » just want to throw in something. If the trees are within 4t of the sidewalk,

[52:08] you're required to have a root barrier in.

[52:10] » Yeah, you did ask us to move them off the sidewalk here, which is part of what

[52:13] this shows because we got the shrub edge here. I'm just saying I'm just trying to

[52:17] think will be you're going to get start getting a little tricky when you're

[52:19] starting to do the uh everything. >> But also keep in mind and and it

[52:23] actually doesn't look bad if you did your evergreen shrubs with trees in line

[52:28] with those shrubs. Then you have your evergreen line, the trees coming up

[52:33] through. if they're being maintained properly, then you have this nice screen

[52:38] hedge with the vertical of the trunks coming up and then the canopies of the

[52:43] trees coming out out of that. So, there's ways to do it. You're the island

[52:50] sort of volcano tree scenario I don't think applies. I understand because I

[52:56] don't like that either. Um, but I think in a linear burm

[53:01] » it would look better than in like a volcano that I think in that makes

[53:06] sense. >> But I have to say overall your plant

[53:09] selections are great. The only thing I see and this is just due to personal

[53:14] experience is your last plant. The uh the Mexican feather grass tends to not

[53:22] be as hearty as we would want it to be. Um,

[53:28] so a substitution for that which does the exact same thing, same height, uh,

[53:33] would be a ham hamlin grass. H A M E L N grass accomplishes the exact same thing,

[53:42] but it's a lot harder. >> Okay,

[53:45] » so

[53:52] » you're welcome. You said it. I appreciate that.

[53:55] » Not L E N. >> Correct.

[53:57] » I I make sure sound like what you spelled.

[54:01] So that's why I was asking. So thank you for that. Um and that we are still going

[54:05] to provide. I noticed that when I I spent a lot of time out there yesterday

[54:07] and today >> there's a sidewalk on the other side of

[54:10] the road already next to the Hitburger. >> Yes.

[54:12] » So sidewalk on both sides of the road is the intent and the desire. And that's

[54:16] fine. I just And there's a lot of I'm going to use it evergreen. There's a

[54:22] lot of overgrown shrubbery along Holiday East now.

[54:27] » Yeah, >> it's very nasty, truthfully.

[54:30] » Provides a great screen for those people, but that's not going to be

[54:33] there. No >> when we take put the sidewalk in and

[54:35] everything else. >> Take out that like

[54:38] » that's gone >> and it's going to be gone. I'm just

[54:40] making sure we're all clear on that. That's okay.

[54:41] » Yeah. And the neighbors are aware of that.

[54:43] » Okay. So, something you may want to consider

[54:47] is your mulched areas with the trees along Holiday East is you may want to

[54:56] switch that to evergreens. Again, accomplishing something. You

[55:02] could even do the trees with evergreens and shrubs doing the same thing but sort

[55:08] of providing I mean I know those are >> sort of company colors but the bottom

[55:17] right evergreen foam or fog or whatever that is is

[55:23] » material. Uh yes, sorry. That's that's [Laughter]

[55:30] » that color is not quite it. If I was living there, I would want that

[55:35] screened. >> That is a It's not It's a little

[55:38] » It's Yeah, it's quite right. It's It's kind

[55:43] of got a seaf foam green and it needs to be more of a like a woodland green based

[55:49] on what you're talking >> and so um I would even be okay and and

[55:56] if because that screening probably doesn't need to be company colors for

[56:02] that fence. um going with something like a

[56:07] Charleston green or black forest green >> that would be just a lot more

[56:14] visibly not present

[56:17] » might be a better option. >> Is that the only place that color shows

[56:21] up? >> No, that's on the building as well. But

[56:24] this is on >> is this facing away towards Holiday

[56:27] East? >> This is facing away towards Holiday

[56:30] East. If if it got screened with the trees,

[56:35] » basically what that color is is is if you squint at a shrub, it's the shade.

[56:41] » It's the shadow. It looks black with a little bit of green in it. And so it is

[56:47] truly a color that helps disappear. >> I do like the fact that you're putting

[56:52] the fence on top of the burm, which means we have privacy fence and burm,

[56:57] which is great. But that just makes that color even a little more prevalent.

[57:04] » That's >> better than a white fence

[57:08] » probably. Maybe not. I don't know. >> And that's okay. We can Yeah, we can

[57:11] show that. >> I'm going to keep white clean.

[57:14] » That's going to drive me nuts. >> But you know the the parking deck behind

[57:16] Bixby, it went darker for that reason. And it wasn't a Charleston green, but

[57:20] it's darker and it does >> blend in better.

[57:29] I mean, even if it was stained or something, I just It's got to be not

[57:34] that. >> I mean, even if you put maybe the bronze

[57:37] of the >> Yeah. the brown.

[57:40] » Yeah. The age of brown. >> You go the brown.

[57:42] » Yeah. Brown's fine. >> Aged bronze

[57:45] » and and evergreens instead of the >> Okay.

[57:49] What you said was these are acer rub. So that's red maples on the back street

[57:53] there along Holly east ever >> like evergreen. You could do something

[57:59] right or something like that. >> I I would do something dense like a

[58:04] Robin Holly something like that. Something narrow evergreen not going to

[58:09] be a big issue. Okay. Um

[58:15] so

[58:18] » so I tried to take good notes. So I will verbalize this and then we'll just make

[58:23] sure we're all on the same page. Right. So we'll let's start with um when it

[58:28] comes to lighting the idea of making sure like you said the lighting is on

[58:32] timers and if we if you know the city needs to revisit you know lights getting

[58:37] turned off at a certain time at night that that would be desirable. Um,

[58:44] we talked about the placement of the shrubs in relation to the burm. The idea

[58:49] of maybe bringing the grass forward and then the shrubs up more in line with the

[58:52] trees toward the top of the burm. We talked about replacing the Mexican

[58:57] feather grass with emerald grass. Is that right? Um, and then on the back

[59:02] side, changing the back wall from the corporate green color that's proposed to

[59:07] a darker color and then using some evergreens in between the trees as well

[59:11] to help kind of blend. Um, >> or evergreens instead of the

[59:16] » instead of the trees. And you recommended the Robin Holly, right? Yes.

[59:19] For that, >> was there anything else? I would like a

[59:24] section through the >> section

[59:26] » along Holland Street and and College

[59:33] » supposed to have a a row of shrubbery along Holiday East as well.

[59:38] » It's a different type of buffer than the other sides.

[59:40] » It's a different type of buffer. >> Okay. I just want to make sure it wasn't

[59:43] It's not there under the >> Oh, and then the sconces along the north

[59:48] side along the Ruby Tuesday. >> Ruby side. You want those?

[59:52] » East side. East side. >> East side. Yes.

[59:56] » Got it. >> Well, it is north. It says according to

[59:58] this >> boulevard is north.

[1:00:00] » Well, your north arrow is then

[1:00:05] » north arrow on that plan is wrong. >> Landscape plan. Yeah, that one's wrong.

[1:00:10] » So, Scott says removed on the Ruby Tuesday side of the facade

[1:00:14] » sections across college and what's the other one?

[1:00:19] » College and Holly. >> Holly.

[1:00:21] » Okay. >> Holiday. holiday. Yeah.

[1:00:25] » And we're okay. There were two sconces on

[1:00:30] the rear of the building as well, right? Is that was that fine to leave?

[1:00:34] » I was I'm okay with that. Are y'all coming back with an official lighting

[1:00:38] plan with all the post lights or was that

[1:00:46] » It's right after landscape. >> Oh, yeah. Page.

[1:00:58] seems very small for some reason. I apologize for that.

[1:01:03] I think we need to note that uh that you know the timing of the lighting or

[1:01:12] you know the percentage of the lighting that's off at night type of thing um be

[1:01:18] addressed. I don't know how best way to evaluate that

[1:01:24] if that's a >> lighting security.

[1:01:28] » Yeah. >> But that's that's a sub

[1:01:32] that's a subjective measurement, >> right?

[1:01:35] » Could y'all could you all come with a proposal for what you think would be

[1:01:40] appropriate in terms of minimal lighting on it?

[1:01:43] » Can we respond to that? Can I um Yeah. Can I test it at a couple of our other

[1:01:47] sites and just see what we think is >> maybe every other column instead of each

[1:01:52] one on that side? >> Every other column.

[1:01:55] » Well, >> I just think I just think that the doors

[1:01:58] and any security points they want to have light.

[1:02:01] » Yeah. >> The Ruby Tuesday site.

[1:02:05] » We won't have any sconces on that side. >> No, I think that's what you said, right?

[1:02:10] You guys wanted the sconces removed from the Ruby Tuesday side. Is that correct?

[1:02:13] There's a lot of mechanical equipment on these projects, right? So, they don't

[1:02:16] want people coming in and trying to, you know, strip the wires out of them and,

[1:02:18] you know, go through the trash cans and things like that. That's why they

[1:02:21] typically leave the lights on at most of these places.

[1:02:24] » Maybe a little lower level, but they're on just

[1:02:26] » mostly to keep people. >> We can certainly see about Denver. Let

[1:02:29] me just test it at one of our others. >> No, sorry.

[1:02:32] » Yeah, holiday but not holiday. >> Oh, not holiday, but holiday comfortable

[1:02:36] with take a look at it. See if we think it works.

[1:02:39] » Just test it at some of the other sites and just see what

[1:02:41] » you know. We can't dim the ones that are

[1:02:45] completely over. >> We can't dim the street lights

[1:02:49] » that are on the site, >> but we'll

[1:02:53] » let me test it. Let me see what I can turn off and I can take some pictures so

[1:02:57] you guys can see what it looks like at night with the tunnel lights off.

[1:03:02] » But definitely turning off the flashing interior lights at night.

[1:03:05] » For sure. No problem. Was there anything else that in terms of guidance?

[1:03:13] » Okay. Thank you all so much. We appreciate it.

[1:03:16] » Thank you guys. >> Thank you for your time.

[1:03:19] » Oh, you have bullets. >> Oh, yes. Or they

[1:03:24] » Yeah, we're going to hold on to those boards.

[1:03:27] » Unless something's changing, we're going to hold on to those that the rest of the

[1:03:30] night. >> Just like that.

[1:03:35] » Okay. Thank you. Thank y'all. So, this moves us through our our to our third

[1:03:39] action items tonight. 2025 A07. Applicant Quinton Brown. That was just

[1:03:44] » Oh, goodness. >> Did you guys want to make a decision or

[1:03:47] » Oh, I thought it was just preliminary like guidance.

[1:03:51] » Under action items. >> It was They had came back from this was

[1:03:54] their second time in front of you guys, but they didn't seem to be I think

[1:03:57] they're aware that they're coming back. >> I felt like there were enough things to

[1:04:01] look at. >> Yeah.

[1:04:03] » Okay. Okay, >> sorry. I saw that preliminary and I was

[1:04:05] like, okay. Um, and then, okay, 2025 AR7 applicant Quinton Brown,

[1:04:13] C CNW Estates LLC is requesting preliminary review of a new commercial

[1:04:18] building at 203 frontage road. So, we'll hear from Jacob to begin with.

[1:04:22] » Yes, this property is zoned CP1 in AR District 5. Um, this is phase two of

[1:04:28] 2011 fronted road. I think I've passed out some uh pictures of what the current

[1:04:33] phase looks like. Um basically they're pretty early on in the

[1:04:39] design. Wanted you guys get your feedback right away. When they come back

[1:04:42] in front of you, they're going to have to ask for a waiver from having the

[1:04:44] parking in front of the um building between the building and

[1:04:49] street. But because of how the first phase was developed, there's really no

[1:04:54] other choice. And >> part's already in place, is it not?

[1:04:57] Yeah, there there'll be some more added to this, but yes, there's parking's

[1:05:00] already in place. Also, there's roads on three sides actually.

[1:05:05] » Yeah, everything is >> it's an eyeball.

[1:05:07] » So, it's >> Yeah. So, we're just just to be aware

[1:05:11] that they will be get asking for a waiver and city will be the staff will

[1:05:15] be recommending approval of it of that waiver. Um

[1:05:22] I guess with that, I'll just turn it over to the applicant, let them give

[1:05:25] their presentation.

[1:05:29] And

[1:05:36] » thank you, sir. >> Good evening, Quinton Brown. Uh, so what

[1:05:43] we're looking to do is build a retail building, 7,000 ft², walk out basement

[1:05:47] style, 203 front ended road. Kind of want to

[1:05:52] complement the building next to it. Uh, as you can see is there's already a

[1:05:56] building next door. So, we're building on the lot beside it. Uh, parking will

[1:06:00] be in front and in back. Uh, so with a walkout basement, you'll have a bottom

[1:06:05] floor and a top floor. Um, the top floor has the uh magnolia

[1:06:11] and uh see I'm not sure what the tree is back there, but there's uh there's

[1:06:16] coverage on 93 uh and then the exog 123. So, we'll be adding landscape to the

[1:06:23] front uh kind of following the landscape plan of what he asked uh in phase one.

[1:06:29] And um

[1:06:33] the landscape plan is slightly different from the other plan we submitted because

[1:06:38] we're trying to add a little bit more parking.

[1:06:41] So, we'll adjust landscape plan to reflect the new parking in the future. I

[1:06:46] just want to represent that we're going to try to follow his current landscape

[1:06:50] plan. And y'all want this sample uh of the

[1:06:54] roof or y'all go with it just up front.

[1:06:59] Does that match the roof on the existing building that you

[1:07:02] » that I don't know. I'm not sure exactly the roofy's used. Uh this is just a

[1:07:07] preferred color we did. >> So are these buildings connected?

[1:07:14] » No. >> Okay.

[1:07:16] just go up close to each other. >> I couldn't tell based on the site plan.

[1:07:22] » I think this the parking lot's connected. Uh obviously it's a very

[1:07:26] unique building there. >> It looked like right there,

[1:07:29] » but I think that's just part of the >> the lot.

[1:07:32] » Yeah, there is a shared drive uh and and the parking lots will connect both top

[1:07:35] and bottom. >> Basically about two parking lots with

[1:07:39] wide separation >> on the landscape plan. There's a

[1:07:42] connection. >> Oh, yeah. See, so the landscape plan is

[1:07:46] kind of old old to be honest with you. >> It is. It's from 2013 when he originally

[1:07:51] built it.

[1:07:55] » So in between, is there a road access in between or is this just going to be like

[1:07:59] a grassway walkway? >> It's one unified park

[1:08:02] » in between the two buildings. Is it going to be connected with the parking

[1:08:05] lot with the parking or is it just going to be?

[1:08:07] » Yeah, walkway. >> So the parking just goes right around.

[1:08:12] It's one unified parking that's single access.

[1:08:19] » I'm trying to get a sense of height of this building relative to the

[1:08:24] existing building. I'm trying to

[1:08:28] » Well, I've got comments on the design. So,

[1:08:31] » it it's going to be a little bit shorter than the existing building. Uh I can't

[1:08:37] can't quite read out. I want to say we're like 22 feet up there.

[1:08:42] uh total. >> Yeah.

[1:08:44] » Yeah. And then >> if if I had to guess because I don't

[1:08:48] know how tall his building is, uh he he's probably

[1:08:52] 22 feet from the pack. So, we're going to be slightly shorter. We're going to

[1:08:55] be a story shorter than him. And that's simply for call sake. We didn't want to

[1:09:00] put on cuz he's got a steep pitch bonus room up top that he used for like his uh

[1:09:06] his employees to use. And we're not going to put a bonus above. They're just

[1:09:10] going to build it low pitch roof. >> Well, that's that's where my concerns

[1:09:15] lie is that this looks like, you know, uh is it's a fundamentally different

[1:09:21] building than the building there. >> That's correct.

[1:09:24] » And and I think it needs to match the pitch of the roof, match the materials,

[1:09:30] match the window styles, match the entrance details.

[1:09:34] I mean, um, because the these are really like a

[1:09:39] couplet and I think it's going to look really awkward

[1:09:43] and and frankly diminish the value of the property next to you to not get be

[1:09:49] consistent with with the style of the building. Now, if you didn't need the

[1:09:55] extra floor needs, then maybe you build the second

[1:09:59] level into the roof, bring the roof down and still use the dormers as a way to

[1:10:05] get the floor to floor height down of there and entrance into that upper

[1:10:08] level. But but it to me it is it doesn't have the same character or

[1:10:18] or um as the existing building at all and they're so close. They're really a

[1:10:23] pair. Um,

[1:10:26] another, you know, thing you might look at is just if you're trying to deal with

[1:10:32] the cost, then reduce the footprint and get the extra floor in there. But, um,

[1:10:41] but it just seems like a fundamentally

[1:10:44] different building, a much more utilitarian building than the one that's

[1:10:47] there. >> Yeah. I mean, am I just rebuttal

[1:10:52] respectively? I mean, I disagree. I think the building uh as far as like

[1:10:56] we're going to try to use a a very similar color scheme to what he's he's

[1:10:59] got and it's a walk out basement style as far as like diminishing the value. I

[1:11:04] I disagree. I mean, you have Publix right next to um an old changing place.

[1:11:09] You know, you have the brick building, the all red brick building right there

[1:11:13] on Tiger Boulevard next to a six center shopping uh shopping retail space. So, I

[1:11:21] mean, this is a unified retail parcel that's really an island.

[1:11:28] Uh, and it's um, you know, I I think there's there's much

[1:11:34] stronger obligation to be consistent with the with the style of the existing

[1:11:39] building. Um, I mean, the windows look like they're just like I mean, it's it's

[1:11:46] just a completely different different style. Um,

[1:11:52] and the slope of the roof makes a big difference, too.

[1:11:58] Um, the materials that you're showing

[1:12:03] were those your brick samples. >> Yeah, that was a brick sample. That

[1:12:08] doesn't look like the brick on that building at all.

[1:12:10] » Yeah, we didn't want to look like his brick. Uh we we think his brick is a

[1:12:14] dated look. It looks more like a lakehouse uh brick, whereas I think our

[1:12:19] brick will >> Is it stone or brick? Stone.

[1:12:22] » Yeah. Yeah, stone. So, he's got more of like a lake lodge look. We're going for

[1:12:26] more of a retail upscale uh kind of white white versus dark look. Uh I think

[1:12:33] it's going to really elevate the space.

[1:12:40] And I actually do have his color. So like the hardy color I have this

[1:12:45] » and the color hardy that we're going to use is very similar. So it's I can pass

[1:12:49] this around >> like or we can use the same color if

[1:12:52] that's >> Yeah. And if we have to we could use the

[1:12:54] same color Hardy. Uh we have that. It's pero

[1:12:59] Williams but we're looking at prelude. So I'll pass this around too. So the the

[1:13:04] small sample is the one that you're proposing and the bigger one is the one

[1:13:08] that's currently on the neighborhood. >> That's correct.

[1:13:12] » Oh yeah, that looks like purpose.

[1:13:17] Use that color. >> So we we are trying to complement the

[1:13:20] building some somewhat, but we also want it to be different. We don't want it to

[1:13:25] look the exact same as his. Well, I think this building here is so unique to

[1:13:30] try to match it and would be asking a little bit too much. I mean, it's trying

[1:13:34] to match the windows, the brick or the stone, the pitch on a roof. That's

[1:13:38] asking a lot. >> I don't think you can halfway match it.

[1:13:41] It would just look off. >> Yeah, it's a very unique looking

[1:13:46] building. >> Yeah, that's more of a question for the

[1:13:48] architects here. Not, you know, from a business standpoint driving by, uh, I

[1:13:53] don't think you can match this building without spending a lot of money.

[1:13:59] I have a lot of ambivalence here because I'm torn in two directions. I mean, I

[1:14:03] could see >> because I just remember back when it was

[1:14:06] first developed, there was a rendering that showed the mirroring building, you

[1:14:09] know, and so and I I see the mirror in the consistency in this parcel.

[1:14:20] I guess for me it's the conversation of how much is too much alike or not enough

[1:14:23] alike and where how do you find that? Well, there's ways as a designer to make

[1:14:27] it, >> but I mean material is one thing, pitch

[1:14:31] is another, proportion is another. >> Okay. And and this has none of that. So,

[1:14:37] » and for me, I think the proportion is almost too different. Like I'm I'm torn

[1:14:43] because like for me, I guess the proportion is bothering me the most out

[1:14:46] of everything. But I don't know. It's really kind of a

[1:14:51] ranch proportion. What's a ranch house? a low slug with the walk out.

[1:14:57] » Yeah. Horizontal windows.

[1:15:01] » Yeah. It just it's it's to me it's it's it's potentially going to reduce the

[1:15:09] value of the neighboring property. Um

[1:15:13] and um

[1:15:18] and I think it's just going to look really odd on the island. Sorry, unified

[1:15:22] landscape.

[1:15:29] help me understand this is two distinct properties owned by the same property

[1:15:34] owner. >> No, no. Um I believe you own this

[1:15:37] property. >> Yeah, I own the property and Mark

[1:15:40] McKinnus, the orthodontist, owns the property next door.

[1:15:43] » Okay. And the greater what's called the greater common plan when it was

[1:15:46] developed. >> Um but they're individual lots.

[1:15:50] » Okay. And then is there a significance to it

[1:15:54] being deemed a phase two as part of this review or

[1:15:58] » um well just because of how the parking lots are connected and how it was again

[1:16:03] created as a greater common plan. So I mean there's lots of examples for that

[1:16:08] with all over Lowe's with the different out parcels of buildings there. Um you

[1:16:13] know there's public is another prime um example. Um but yeah, it's a

[1:16:20] you know part of phase of the same project. This is just it's the second

[1:16:25] phase of it. >> Yeah.

[1:16:32] So without going

[1:16:41] I'm wondering if going with gable ends just said hip versus hipped roofs

[1:16:51] like even if the pitch didn't match but it still felt like it was

[1:17:01] from the same country, you know, like like

[1:17:08] I'm just trying to think of how >> which which one of those we can can be

[1:17:13] chosen, >> right,

[1:17:14] » to focus on >> how do you accomplish cuz proportionally

[1:17:18] due to the fact that your brick comes up as almost like a water table to your to

[1:17:25] the bottom of the windows on the second story, it feels feels like your

[1:17:30] office building is wearing high waters. Like it feels like your bricks pulled up

[1:17:35] like like to your armpits a little bit. So it makes the top portion feel very

[1:17:41] squatty. Uh and I don't think it actually lends to the to the

[1:17:49] like I don't think it accomplishes the elegance that you're wanting to

[1:17:53] accomplish. Um >> you're going to have to go higher. I

[1:17:56] mean, if you want if you're if you're worried about cost,

[1:18:00] then you know, I mean, first of all, light under dark is is an awkward thing.

[1:18:08] So, you've got a lighter brick material than a darker siding. So, generally the

[1:18:13] base wants to be darker than the the the upper level. Um, I would get a a if

[1:18:22] you're going to go with brick instead of stone, at least I'd go with a brick that

[1:18:25] has a similar color palette to that. Uh, I would lower the brick and eliminate it

[1:18:33] as much as possible. Um, and then at least there's more of the siding on the

[1:18:40] building. That's a cost differential because the brick is going to be more

[1:18:42] expensive than the siding. and um and then use that to get some

[1:18:50] better windows in there um that have a proportion. I mean, this

[1:18:56] does it look it's a ranch house.

[1:19:00] Um everything about it is about a ranch house horizontal proportion where

[1:19:05] everything about this other building is more vertically oriented.

[1:19:10] uh the windows are the ratio of the width to the height of the windows, the

[1:19:14] subdivision of the windows, all those things. Um

[1:19:22] it just there's there's really there's ways to

[1:19:28] do this without copying that building, but you haven't captured it in this

[1:19:32] design. Um and um

[1:19:46] Well, I I can definitely lower brick. I mean, uh I don't think it'll be a

[1:19:50] problem at all. Um >> that's if you're trying to I mean, I

[1:19:53] just lower the brick to save you money to put in somewhere else on this

[1:19:57] building to make it fit more. And I would certainly at the very least go

[1:20:02] with the color scheme of the roof and the and the and the and the um Hardy on

[1:20:09] the other building. Um

[1:20:14] and earlier you talked, you know, like the broken roof line, like is there a

[1:20:17] way to maybe break up the roof line? Like you know, you've got the dormers.

[1:20:21] I believe there's some on the front of that building, right?

[1:20:24] » Oh, sorry. >> There are. Yes.

[1:20:26] » Right. The gables may help you. Gable ends may help you some.

[1:20:32] Um,

[1:20:35] I honestly don't know that keeping the pitch on the roof is going to materially

[1:20:40] impact your

[1:20:46] cost. You're going to get a little bit more

[1:20:49] roof area of the shingle material, the trusses.

[1:20:56] See that being a different thing?

[1:21:03] Well, I mean, when you increase the pitch of the roof, I mean, increases

[1:21:06] everything. Labor, shingles, sheathing, wood,

[1:21:12] all overall cost is going to go up. So, at that point, you know, I'd be better

[1:21:17] just to put a bonus up there and build in just like you did upstairs in.

[1:21:24] If I if I got to if I got to change the pitch, I might as well build a bonus

[1:21:27] into it because, you know, that would match his a little bit better. And then

[1:21:31] throwing a dormer in there probably wouldn't be a hard thing to do. Very

[1:21:35] least we could use it as like a second floor elevated space. They put a

[1:21:41] nice light fixture or something. I don't know.

[1:21:45] » So, think on that one. I'd consider two things. One, you can

[1:21:50] always I'm I'm guessing ADC is who drew these.

[1:21:54] » Yes. >> So, you can, you know, always go back to

[1:21:58] ADC. I don't know them personally. Um, but I'm just saying you could all if if

[1:22:05] they can't accomplish a architectural style marriage between these two

[1:22:12] buildings, then you may want to get guidance from someone else because

[1:22:19] that's what your architect. You don't just want a drafts person to draw up a

[1:22:24] building for you. uh you know the the skill and the design and the you know

[1:22:29] being able to match these architectural languages and accomplish the cost

[1:22:34] savings things like that. Um that's their job and that's what you're paying

[1:22:40] them to do. Uh so you know there's there's tons of people u out there who

[1:22:47] who can look at this and look at that and say okay here is a an an appropriate

[1:22:55] you know, so so it is a marriage between these two buildings because they're so

[1:23:01] close. Um, I know you don't, you know, no, they don't have to be identical, but

[1:23:08] they can at least happily coexist on this lot where this

[1:23:13] is going to end up, I think, creating a a visual

[1:23:18] hodge podge that that isn't actually um probably isn't successful.

[1:23:27] Um, >> yeah. And the architect should probably

[1:23:31] be the one here too with you. >> He was supposed to be here. His kid some

[1:23:35] kind of game.

[1:23:39] » It's just an interesting lot and you know, there's something to be said for J

[1:23:42] position, but at the same time there's it it's kind of a floating little

[1:23:46] development, right? That kind of visually

[1:23:50] » Now, this might this is an idea. It might cost way more. It might not

[1:23:55] accomplish anything you guys want at all. Now, if they were to redo the site

[1:23:59] design and push the building kind of to the other side and have parking in

[1:24:02] between and make like a more of a separation,

[1:24:06] would that help in any way? >> No, I don't think so. I don't think

[1:24:11] parking in between anyway. Right now, the as the buildings sit, they're

[1:24:15] probably only going to be 10 or 15 feet away from each other.

[1:24:17] » Well, that's why I was wondering move the whole building so they weren't as

[1:24:20] close. So they don't >> I don't think they get as much parking

[1:24:22] if they brought the parking between the buildings.

[1:24:24] » Well, and it's so steep, too. I mean, you got a 12oot drop off right there

[1:24:28] from the top top side to the bottom. >> Yeah. Yeah. With the parking going

[1:24:31] around the edge there. >> Spend some money. You changed the site

[1:24:35] design. >> Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely

[1:24:37] right. >> Okay. Yeah. I'm trying to keep it as as

[1:24:41] close to the original site design as possible.

[1:24:44] » Yeah. >> With with

[1:24:45] » We applaud that >> updated uh building look. was properly

[1:24:50] here. >> Have you um just as um some context,

[1:24:55] have you have you actually seen a rendering of this building up against

[1:24:58] the existing building? >> I have not. I've talked to the architect

[1:25:02] about that. Um and he just said it was going to take him some time. He just

[1:25:05] didn't have enough time to get it before our meeting today. because I mean it

[1:25:08] might inform you and make you you know I mean I think there's some power in that

[1:25:13] because it's >> I mean I can be creative and visually

[1:25:16] put them together but when you showed that kind of angle I was like wait a

[1:25:20] minute it kind of changed my perspective on like that's a different reality with

[1:25:24] that >> we need to see them together

[1:25:35] » and so what I'm hearing is the party. You want it to be the same color. You

[1:25:39] want the turquoise the same color he used and you want the window tiles to be

[1:25:43] the same. >> At least the same proportion. I mean,

[1:25:46] whether or not you you go to the window manufacturer that he went to or not, I

[1:25:54] don't know. But but at least think about how the the windows broken up. I mean,

[1:26:00] the you know, these really are horizontal ribbon windows. looks like

[1:26:05] horizontal storefront, you know, at the base and and and it just it needs more

[1:26:13] articulation.

[1:26:19] » Looks like he's using mostly residential.

[1:26:22] » Yeah, it looks like a residential building. We were trying We were trying

[1:26:24] to stay away from the residential look.

[1:26:30] And I think I mean I think there's a way to accomplish a similar aesthetic but

[1:26:34] still maybe pull back from it a little bit. You know, maybe not go quite as but

[1:26:39] take your cues from it but don't follow it lock step.

[1:26:42] » Don't get me don't mistake my comments. I mean I think there's a way to make a

[1:26:47] more contemporary looking building that fits with this.

[1:26:50] » Yeah. >> Okay. If that's what your intent is.

[1:26:55] » That is the intent. But I I find it it's going to be hard to do with the steep

[1:26:59] roof and the window styles and the stone color that he has. It's just going to

[1:27:03] look like a residential building um that I would put on the lake somewhere.

[1:27:07] » Well, this looks like a residential building, too. It's just a very

[1:27:10] different kind of resial. >> Yeah, we were trying to look a little

[1:27:12] different. That that was the intent. Yeah.

[1:27:14] » Yeah. That was the intent to look. >> The intent is not to make it

[1:27:17] residential. >> Is this early 20?

[1:27:20] » Like I or was I going to say 20,000? 201 something.

[1:27:26] » His is early 2000 Lake. Yours is 1980s ranch.

[1:27:31] » And so true. >> Um I and I don't know if you will really

[1:27:35] want to go back to 1980s ranch. >> Um I I would heir on the side of

[1:27:42] » I'm going to give it a little more credit than that. I think it's a little

[1:27:44] I think I meant I'm going to go a little more prairie. Like I I think it's a

[1:27:49] little I think I like it better. It's not first ranch.

[1:27:54] » It's ranch. >> I think you just

[1:27:57] look it over. Choose one thing that you're willing to make a compromise, if

[1:28:03] I would use that word, that looks like the other.

[1:28:07] Do that and then the other aspects of your building to fit your taste.

[1:28:13] materials proportionate

[1:28:18] then and articulation are the key things. Okay.

[1:28:22] » Matching the materials, getting the proportions comparable.

[1:28:27] Okay. >> Yeah.

[1:28:29] » And then figuring out certain details. Okay. I mean because um

[1:28:36] » and you wouldn't want to do some of those things without the proport like

[1:28:38] you don't want to match some of it and then the proportions be off because then

[1:28:42] it's going to look like >> right

[1:28:45] » well I guess my next question is if we wanted to make make it look identical to

[1:28:49] this one. Do I need those gables coming off the front over the front doors too?

[1:28:54] » No. I mean again there can be very I'm not asking you to make a direct copy of

[1:28:59] that building. I actually think there's a I'm an architect so there's a

[1:29:03] contemporary way to make it more contemporary not get into all the

[1:29:06] details but again the overall proportions of the building okay because

[1:29:11] yours is really horizontally oriented that one is not okay the building is

[1:29:16] broken up with different materials vertically

[1:29:19] okay so this you know as opposed to horizontally I mean you've just

[1:29:24] basically in this proposal it's everything that's this is everything

[1:29:28] that's the antithesis to this. Okay. Okay. Does that make sense?

[1:29:33] » Uh so um so I think if you if you find some ways to deal with proportions

[1:29:39] materials in a way that is more sympathetic

[1:29:44] uh and window patterns that are that are uh more sympathetic to that then I think

[1:29:51] you can do that without copying the existing building.

[1:29:56] » Okay. Sure. >> But your architect really needs to hear

[1:30:00] this. I mean, he really good for him to have a conversation with us.

[1:30:05] » Sure. Yeah. I mean, yeah, like I said, he was supposed to be here. That was

[1:30:08] that was the intent, but um >> I think luckily the recording is online.

[1:30:12] » I was about to say this is all published and and stuff, so he he'll get

[1:30:17] » um I'll make sure he hears it and see what we can come up with. But I guess

[1:30:22] what I'm kind of struggling with is I hear like a broad like a like I'm not

[1:30:26] getting like definite like this is what we need from you because I don't want to

[1:30:30] keep the same brick. >> We It's not our job to design it. It's

[1:30:34] your architect's job to design it for you. You're paying them to do that.

[1:30:38] » Like I said, you know, materials both in selection and color and proportion will

[1:30:44] go a long way. >> Okay.

[1:30:48] » Okay. >> All right. When you take your design and

[1:30:51] put it side by side with the one that's there, if it looks ugly side by side, go

[1:30:55] back to the drawing board because >> Yeah. And the rendering of both

[1:30:58] buildings together and you should >> you should ask him for that because

[1:31:04] you need to know how they look together.

[1:31:14] » Okay. Now, as far as deliverables for the next meeting, what are you guys

[1:31:18] going to be looking for them to give at that at the at the level? Are you going

[1:31:21] to want them to come back with a similar like presentation at this level or we

[1:31:26] going to want renderings and everything at

[1:31:27] » I think a complete site plan as modified >> renderings of the building in its

[1:31:33] context with the adjacent building. >> Okay.

[1:31:36] um would certainly be in terms of in in

[1:31:40] addition to this be important.

[1:31:48] » I mean is that is the idea like you would like you'd like this to move

[1:31:51] quickly, right? So the next time you come before us, you want it to be

[1:31:54] » Absolutely. Yeah. I want to get approved sooner than than later.

[1:31:57] » Yeah. That would be the goal. >> So I'd like to break ground, you know,

[1:32:00] November if possible. So I also understand you know I don't

[1:32:07] know if he charges percentage or hourly but all of these changes and things you

[1:32:12] know also cost money if if there is a you know if if

[1:32:20] the next submitt I mean if it falls under basically the same site plan same

[1:32:24] footprint and you have you know a proportion I don't think it has to be

[1:32:31] you know quite construction document full sake, but just you know enough for

[1:32:38] us to get a full idea of what's going on. then you know that way

[1:32:46] we can say yes or man this is really still

[1:32:52] missing it because all of these drawings cost and so

[1:32:56] » so I guess my question would be like but would he be coming before us for final

[1:33:00] approval if he >> that's what I'm trying to get at is are

[1:33:03] you guys >> I don't think we're there yet

[1:33:07] so I think there's something between >> so that's I'm kind of wondering if maybe

[1:33:10] we come back with a similar level submission before he goes for full

[1:33:13] rendering >> because I'd hate for the investors. I

[1:33:16] mean the renderings >> if he's an architect or she I don't know

[1:33:22] whether they can generate renderings of this

[1:33:26] project with that. I mean I don't know what your fee is with your architect

[1:33:30] whether you're paying them hourly or whether you're paying them as a as a

[1:33:34] percentage of the construction cost or whatever but it's their responsibility

[1:33:37] to generate the drawings necessary to get approval.

[1:33:40] » Yeah. I would just hate to go too far down the path and spend that money and

[1:33:43] it not, >> you know.

[1:33:45] » Yeah. >> Yeah. Because that's kind of where I'm

[1:33:47] already at. I've already we're pretty invested in this this here and and

[1:33:52] basically doing a whole redesign is going to cost money regardless. Plus

[1:33:56] adding extra floor is going to cost money. So, it's it's going to really

[1:33:59] stack up soon. And my engineer is going to also charge for you got to redesign

[1:34:04] or shrink the building or anything like that because that was one of the other

[1:34:08] questions I had is uh the building's a lot longer than the other building. Are

[1:34:13] y'all asking me to shrink the building down and go more vertical or

[1:34:19] » Yeah, I don't know that you need to do too much the floor plan if you can do it

[1:34:22] within your budget. >> Okay. Again, you know, I think I think

[1:34:30] your your architect needs to come up with some better ideas.

[1:34:34] » Just an example of how to act accentuate the vertical versus the horizontal. If

[1:34:39] you look at this top rendering where the left section is all brick and if that

[1:34:46] end had a gable end and then the next section the brick was down at like a

[1:34:52] water table le level next to the door and you had more siding. Uh then right

[1:34:59] there you have this section that pulls visually you've now pulled that front

[1:35:04] section out and it it accentuates the vertical. Um then you're dropping that

[1:35:11] other section which again helps accentuate the vertical that's next to

[1:35:15] it. But what you've done with the brick is you've pulled that because your

[1:35:20] building is longer. you've now pulled this whole band all the way across the

[1:35:24] entire plane which now widens everything versus so now it just looks like this

[1:35:33] versus accentuating the >> So if I drop that middle

[1:35:38] section down to like a 4ft water table >> I would be careful of giving him design

[1:35:44] direction at this point in time let their architect feel

[1:35:47] » but that's just >> just changing

[1:35:51] facade can without changing anything. >> You're just changing the the play of of

[1:35:59] those materials. >> So,

[1:36:04] » and the next meeting we can do the one where it was designed like that and

[1:36:08] we told him we didn't like it because we didn't think it looked good

[1:36:11] » because we thought this looked good, but >> we can agree to disagree there.

[1:36:16] » Oh, Jacob, we still got to do the variance on the parking in the front,

[1:36:18] right? >> Yes.

[1:36:19] » So, we do that next meeting, too. >> Yeah. We're going to fill that out for

[1:36:22] next meeting. >> Yep.

[1:36:26] » And do I need to do anything for that? >> Um, yeah. There'll be a form you got to

[1:36:30] fill out. >> Okay.

[1:36:31] » Yep. Will you send that to Jam? >> Absolutely.

[1:36:33] » I appreciate it. No problem.

[1:36:40] » Exactly where it starts to watch >> like you got to watch.

[1:36:45] » You can watch it at a two one and a half speed, two speed, whatever. We can keep

[1:36:48] up with >> go a lot quicker.

[1:36:51] Okay. >> Any do you need anything else from us in

[1:36:54] terms of >> uh No, I mean it's it's pretty vague,

[1:36:58] but uh we'll get it done somehow some way.

[1:37:05] » Okay. Thank you very much. >> Thanks. Thank you. All right.

[1:37:10] Let's see here. Do we have any staff reports?

[1:37:13] » Nope. >> Okay. Any other?

[1:37:15] » No. Do you guys want me to I mean it's a super easy draft for me to get rid of um

[1:37:22] » tall signs on top of >> I mean

[1:37:24] » I mean that is an easy thing for me to do without

[1:37:28] purpose to >> tall huge signs on top. I mean for

[1:37:34] hotels >> hotels

[1:37:36] it's a different clientele all >> together you are dealing with a

[1:37:40] transient client that is looking to find a place here you have residents

[1:37:45] » uh that need an address >> is there any other uses that I should be

[1:37:50] thinking about when doing that is there any other tall buildings besides hotels

[1:37:54] and apartments >> really

[1:37:55] » going to get built in Clemson the only tall buildings we're going to get built

[1:37:58] in Clemson are student hous >> hotels and apartments yeah we're not

[1:38:02] going to get office building, but even an office

[1:38:04] building, would you ever need a sign at the top of it?

[1:38:06] » Any any residential building should not have a

[1:38:10] » Okay. >> I mean, if it's a hospital

[1:38:12] » we'll have hotels be exempt from it, but then everything else just take it out.

[1:38:15] » Yeah. >> I mean, I seemed reasonable to me.

[1:38:20] » I mean, really, they're starting to get really garish. I mean, in my opinion,

[1:38:24] » are we talking signs at all or illuminated signs?

[1:38:28] » Up on top. >> Well, that's what I mean, but like

[1:38:29] illuminated or any sign. I don't see if there's It doesn't do any purpose if

[1:38:34] it's not illuminated, >> right?

[1:38:35] » Yeah. They're not going to even do it if it's

[1:38:40] » okay. I just wanted I mean that's pretty easy ordinance changed. Doesn't affect

[1:38:43] it much. >> Yeah.

[1:38:44] » If someone else buys it and they change the name of it and then you see the

[1:38:47] ghost of the old, you know, it's >> becomes another apartment complex.

[1:38:52] » I don't even have the ghost down. I mean, if you if we ended up getting

[1:38:56] corporate office buildings along 123, maybe you could have a sign up there,

[1:39:01] but I would not say on any res. >> Well, here's the other thing is that so

[1:39:05] right now, well, there's there's some exceptions to

[1:39:09] that, but >> and I still think I mean, if you go to

[1:39:11] the research triangle, you're not going to see any of that

[1:39:14] stuff. >> No. Okay. No, it's pretty easy. I mean,

[1:39:18] I can I could do it by AR districts, too, if you wanted. Like, you know,

[1:39:22] College AB, obviously, just take it right out of that.

[1:39:25] » Yeah. I just don't think we need it anywhere.

[1:39:28] » Okay. >> Hotels would be an exception.

[1:39:31] » Okay. Cuz I was wondering about the light effect from being up so high

[1:39:38] » and um you know, you wanted to be seen by people who are all the way down here.

[1:39:42] You know, it's it' be brighter for somebody.

[1:39:46] » Yeah. Hey, Jacob. Is the one that's on the side of Bixie, is that one lit up?

[1:39:51] » It is. >> It is.

[1:39:52] » It's an interesting color. I can't figure it out.

[1:39:54] » Yeah, it is. I mean, that's the thing. We've done a bunch of these, so I This

[1:39:59] is the first time I've heard color. I can't.

[1:40:01] » That's why I know. Okay. I mean, you center is the one that kind of shoots

[1:40:05] out at me for some reason. >> Hy one doesn't bother me at all.

[1:40:08] » Halo illuminate, right? >> I don't know why. The youth center ones

[1:40:11] only what bugs me. >> But it's just the accumulation of them

[1:40:14] because we're going to have all down College Avenue and

[1:40:17] » the sevenstory one that's going wants to go in that's going to want to have one.

[1:40:22] » Yeah. >> And I mean I just think

[1:40:24] » Yeah. Maybe we uh cut that out now. >> Sounds great.

[1:40:32] » The plans are in there. >> It adds up.

[1:40:35] » Yeah. But I don't think the PD has been finalized.

[1:40:37] » No, no, PD hasn't been finalized. Neither signage signage because it

[1:40:41] doesn't actually all it says is that you guys have to approve signage and it

[1:40:45] doesn't have any >> it doesn't put it at this one says

[1:40:49] specifically these are the guidelines you go by right now that PD just says

[1:40:53] whatever you guys want >> is that what 700 750 beds somewhere

[1:40:58] around there. >> Yeah, right around there. Yeah, 740.

[1:41:01] Yeah. So, have we done a count on how many beds

[1:41:05] uh we are going to have downtown in student housing? Tool.

[1:41:10] » Yeah, we have the numbers on that. >> What is that?

[1:41:11] » And it's more than >> is it more than what was like

[1:41:17] » anticipated as needing? >> I'm just trying to figure out the

[1:41:19] proportion of residents. We're still >> Oh.

2025_09_03 Board of Architectural Review

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