[0:00] and in the next day or two, you'll see it on the YouTube channel.

[0:05] All right. Um, recognition of the public,

[0:11] we have Jennifer Campbell. First on the list.

[0:26] Yep. Jennifer Campbell, 1480 Counto Creek Road, Manchester. Um, short and

[0:32] brief. Me and my husband, we were looking. Not sure if this has been

[0:37] updated or if you guys even called these guys and let them know, but this paper

[0:42] is still and it's on the website and it's all over on, you know, online or is

[0:47] still stating that Rex Roth's property, the properties down along Mil Creek. Uh

[0:54] there's uh another one on here that is uh still on proposal for AI buildings.

[1:02] » Okay. Can we see that? I'm not aware that that's on there. Sure.

[1:06] » And I don't think if if it's not anything that came from the township,

[1:10] I'm not sure we can do anything. >> It has the township's uh name and

[1:15] everything else on it. That's the the the data center where you can go online

[1:20] with the county and see where they all are.

[1:23] » Okay. >> Yeah, we keep an eye on that all the

[1:25] time. >> Okay.

[1:27] » Is that the county? >> If you could Well, the count wouldn't

[1:31] the county not be updated until we send them something? Well, that's what I was

[1:35] wondering if you guys had >> remember we are still in we're still

[1:39] discussing every month, right? We're sitting down. We're refining the map and

[1:44] we're refining the ordinance together. Once we're done that, then it goes to

[1:48] the county because they look at it and and then they'll probably update that on

[1:52] their side. So, you're probably going to still see old stuff with the county

[1:56] because we're still working through our ordinance together.

[1:59] » Okay. >> Does that make sense?

[2:00] » It makes sense. That's why I figured, you know, I would, you know, ask

[2:05] » you go from there. It does state on there that it was updated

[2:09] » as of April, but it has not been updated since.

[2:13] » Yeah. >> So,

[2:14] » yeah, >> we started meeting in July uh to to

[2:18] publicly discuss changes. So, >> right.

[2:21] » I I don't believe this is even your county. I know there are several

[2:25] websites that are tracking proposed

[2:30] data centers, planned, approved data centers, etc. Um, some of that

[2:34] information is provided by interested people. Some are are factual.

[2:40] So, if I could get the the actual source of this, we can look into it more, but I

[2:44] can tell you honestly to this to date, we've had no formal applications for

[2:49] » No, it's not an application. That's just saying that it's actually a a a piece of

[2:53] property that is proposed and allowed to be an AI building.

[2:59] » Yeah. All that is >> proposed. That could be an applicant

[3:03] allowed. The township decides where land uses are allowed through our zoning. We

[3:09] have not allowed data centers anywhere. We're developing an ordinance to say

[3:12] they can be in this one geographic area, but that's for an unofficial government

[3:18] website to say this. is allowed there. It doesn't really mean much. It's

[3:22] » right. Well, again, like I said, I I've just figured that most likely the word

[3:26] needs to come from you all. Let them know correct that that piece of property

[3:32] is all contained. >> Yep.

[3:33] » Okay. >> That's what I'm saying. If I can if I

[3:35] know where it is, I can I can contact them and let them know that that that is

[3:39] currently not an active. >> But for the for the integrity of what

[3:42] we're doing, we we have not we have not released anything outside of of the

[3:46] township. >> Yeah. All right. So, yeah, because the

[3:49] rest of the neighbors all through there, they're like, "Well, I thought you kind

[3:53] of said that that was off the table when I showed them the new map from when we

[3:57] were at the church." >> Yeah.

[3:59] » So, there's people are kind of like getting on a little up for again because

[4:04] they [snorts] think that something's being shoved.

[4:06] » Okay. >> So, clarification.

[4:09] » Okay. Thank you, Mrs. Campbell. >> And Mark, you're going to see if we can

[4:15] trace that down somewhere. >> Yeah, if you can. If you can give me the

[4:18] where what the source is of this, I'll look it up.

[4:21] » Yeah, I will. >> Thanks.

[4:22] » Actually, while we're while we're uh Mark, you kind of went through the

[4:27] process of what what happens when we kind of finally say, "Okay, this is this

[4:32] is what we're moving ahead with." Let's walk through real quickly what happens

[4:37] process-wise so everybody's on the same page because I think some people here

[4:41] were not at the the meeting at the the church. So, just that way it's on the

[4:46] record. So after we say this is our last meeting, we feel this is what we're

[4:50] moving ahead with. What's the next step? >> So good plan.

[4:53] » Pre pre that statement um we have adopted a moratorum which gives us 180

[4:58] days to get an ordinance in place and that's important. So nothing can come in

[5:02] right now even if they want to. Um we have said no we're in the process of

[5:07] developing an ordinance. We have 180 days which takes us to don't quote me

[5:11] the date is July or January >> 1st 3rd 4th something like that. Um, so

[5:16] in that time frame, we are in the process and we have a draft. We've had

[5:19] this two public meetings down at the church. Uh, the next public meeting will

[5:23] take place at the planning commission meeting where we'll go through it again.

[5:26] The planning commission will will look at this ordinance. Um, after we get it

[5:32] to a point where we are comfortable with it, it'll be advertised as a as an

[5:37] ordinance, then brought forward to a supervisor's meeting for formal action.

[5:42] Um, we hope to do that in November at the latest would be at the December

[5:47] meeting and then it takes a place soon after. Like Steve, is there a time frame

[5:51] on those when they take place as immediate or is is there like a 7-day

[5:55] delay on on that type of ordinance? I forget.

[5:59] » I think we can do it immediately. So, it would be effect the next day. So at that

[6:02] point then we will be adopting both an ordinance which provides guidance and

[6:08] regulations on how if a data center application is submitted here how it

[6:12] comes in. What we're proposing is to do it through a conditional use process,

[6:16] which would mean then that any applicant who wants to propose a data center as a

[6:21] principal use here in the township would have to come before the board of

[6:25] supervisors in a formal hearing. And it's a conditional use hearing. And

[6:29] under [snorts] Pennsylvania law, a conditional use is it's it's a use

[6:32] that's allowed under specific criteria. And the supervisors then have the

[6:37] ability to attach reasonable conditions to that decision. So that's what that

[6:41] process means. Um in addition to adopting the ordinance, um we have also

[6:47] proposed a map because this is being done as an overlay and we've talked

[6:50] about this at the meetings where an overlay district says within this

[6:54] district there may be some underlying zoning um industrial, it could be

[7:00] commercial, etc. Within that district on top of the

[7:06] underlying zoning, a data center would be allowed by conditional use. So that's

[7:09] the process we're going through now. And going forward, should someone want to

[7:13] apply, that's the process they'd have to go through to get one approved here. So

[7:19] it it takes months. If if we do get a formal application, it would take months

[7:23] for it to get to a point where it comes to before the board of supervisors for

[7:27] formal action and decision. >> Even if I say even if they wanted to,

[7:33] » even if they wanted to. And the orders draft that we have right now is is

[7:37] fairly strict. I mean, there's a lot of conditions and regulations on it that

[7:40] we're working through now, but that's that's where it stands.

[7:43] » Okay. Thank you, Jennifer. Uh Jamie Lagana.

[7:52] » Jamie Lana, 535 East Butter Road. Um so, there's been quite a few questions

[7:58] recently about the cost of township supervisors

[8:02] um salaries and what exactly they're cost in the township and things like

[8:06] that. So, I have those numbers for us tonight. [clears throat]

[8:09] Um, Mr. McDonald received a raise this year because he was just uh reelected,

[8:14] [cough] which is great. His salary went from $2500 that the other two get to

[8:19] 4190. Um, they the two gentlemen both get a

[8:23] $4,500 HSA allowance. Uh, Loretta does not because she's on Medicare. They all

[8:29] three get a $3,000 uh insurance cost for uh vision.

[8:35] They all get a $600. >> I am I am dental.

[8:38] » Let me keep talking, please. >> She is correct. It is visiting dental. U

[8:43] They all get a $600 cell phone allowance yearly. Uh like I said, Loretta and

[8:47] Brian both get $2,500 for their position and John does get $41.90.

[8:53] Um Pat stews, they get $700 a piece. They get a convention aotment of 195 and

[9:02] they get $200 a year for their uniforms. I don't know how a college shirt that

[9:07] you wear once a month is a uniform, but in the end, Loretta cost us one uh

[9:14] $18,886

[9:17] a year, while Brian cost us $45,7512

[9:26] a year. And Mr. McDonald cost us 47,4412.

[9:32] This has all been done by right to know. So those numbers are 100% accurate. Um I

[9:37] want to let it be known that I do intend to run in 2028. As I've spoken before,

[9:41] one of the first things I will be asking to do is getting rid of all of that

[9:45] other than to pay the 25 or what will be $4,190.

[9:50] They don't there's no reason that we're paying these. Um, two of the three are

[9:55] self-employed and make millions. Well, one makes millions, so I don't know what

[9:58] the other one makes. There's absolutely no reason, in my opinion, we're sitting

[10:02] on the seat at this point just for insurance. We're ensuring them, the

[10:06] three of them, their spouses, their children, some of which are out of the

[10:10] house, working on their own, but they are under 26, so by law they can be

[10:14] covered. In my opinion, I don't think we should be covering anybody that doesn't

[10:18] sit specifically on the seat, and even so, they shouldn't even be covered. Um,

[10:25] I don't know if that my my goal here isn't to create an issue. It's to to

[10:29] quiet questions because there's been a lot of questions. I see them on Facebook

[10:32] and I keep getting asked getting asked. So, finally we got the information. Um,

[10:37] $50,000 a person essentially is what it costs. Loretta's is less expensive

[10:43] because she's on Medicare. So, that's great because of age, whatever.

[10:47] Can't fault her for that. Um, should I be elected, I will be declining

[10:51] everything up there to include the pay. The pay will go to Nor Eastern school

[10:55] district to be in football program. And I know of at least two other people that

[10:59] plan to run as well that we're going to do the same. Furthermore, we have it

[11:03] approved with the county. We did get enough signatures. It will be on the

[11:06] ballot next time around in November. You will be asked yes or no. Do you want the

[11:11] the seat to go from three to five? Keep in mind there is a cost with that of

[11:15] course, but again at least three of the people that I know that are running,

[11:19] myself included, will be working to get rid of that.

[11:23] Have a good evening. [applause]

[11:31] » You're done. I can talk. >> I stopped you because you you uh

[11:35] violated my first amendment right by interrupting me during my three-minute

[11:38] time period. You're not legally allowed to interrupt. I'm tired of seeing it.

[11:42] Well, you can give me the dirty look all you want. There is an amendment right

[11:45] there. >> All right, we'll continue. Um I actually

[11:48] did this uh the right to know for Mrs. Farry and uh I did all these figures. So

[11:54] that's exactly where he's getting them. And I think uh when they were before I

[12:00] go to that u Mark I wanted to ask you when we videotape

[12:06] can we pull back the camera a little bit because I notice that all we see is the

[12:11] board here. >> Yeah.

[12:13] » I don't know if that's possible. >> I I I will look and see if I can do it

[12:18] but definitely I'm ready for the next meeting. We'll back it up.

[12:20] » Okay. All right. So I have the figures here. So if anybody wants them, they

[12:26] could come up and get them then. But it's exactly uh what Mr. Lagona was

[12:30] saying. Um by right

[12:36] and and I'll actually read it from the uh PAT's uh laws here. Supervisors,

[12:44] whether or not they are employed by the township and their dependent, are

[12:47] eligible for inclusion in group life, health, hospitalization, medical

[12:52] service, and accident insurance paid in whole or in part by the township.

[12:57] Supervisors and their dependents who are um over 65 years of age are eligible for

[13:04] inclusion in the supplemental Medicare uh insurance coverage paid in whole or

[13:10] part by the township. So, it's always been done forever. Um, supervisors,

[13:17] believe me, $18,000. I'm not here for the money.

[13:22] » Eligible doesn't mean >> Oh, you're excuse you're interrupting

[13:25] me. It's my first amendment, right? >> You're you're a township. Uh,

[13:29] » okay. So, anyways, um, when you have the floor, I'll let you speak.

[13:36] So, um, it's up to people if they want you get what you pay for. So, just be

[13:44] aware. And did you want to go to the podium?

[13:48] » I only have one more question. For how many hours?

[13:53] » Well, it's not really hours. Um, now I'm in administration, so I'm here three to

[14:00] four times a week and sometimes I'm here for hours. Um, the other two, if they

[14:09] have questions, if they're going through something, they come in and maybe how

[14:13] many times? once or twice a week. >> Twice a month. But that doesn't count

[14:17] the times that we are on the phone or discussing issues or I'm on the phone

[14:23] with Mark discussing what you know there might be a a crisis or a followup or

[14:29] maybe we're also out you know in the township walking you know walking

[14:33] streets or whatever. So there's never really an hour limit on it. So, um, you

[14:40] know, one month I may, you know, I may be involved in 10 hours worth of work

[14:44] and another month I may be in two hours. I don't know. It depends. But whatever

[14:48] the township needs is there's not really, you know,

[14:52] » and you're always available for phone calls. And Brian, you also you bought

[14:56] the roads and, you know, do a lot >> roads. We were just out down here. Uh,

[15:01] » is it what is it? Kentwell. >> Kentwell. We were down there meeting

[15:04] with two contractors. Uh, and that's that's an ongoing thing. I mean, it's

[15:08] it's and it's through the day, you know, when everybody else is available. Uh,

[15:13] and there is phone calls in the middle of the night. Sometimes police will call

[15:17] me. Uh, I'm I'm I'm down the list a little bit, but if no one else answers,

[15:22] they call me then if they have an issue, need road closed or something. And

[15:25] » you got a call the other night. >> Uh,

[15:28] » yeah, I got a call the other night and we're on call 247.

[15:33] So, the other night I got a call from the uh security system. Uh, our front

[15:40] door was breached, so I had to come down and check out what was going on. Um,

[15:46] different times I come down. Last weekend, somebody forgot to pick up the

[15:50] key for the rental. So, I came in on a Sunday and went down, got the key for

[15:55] him. So, it's like we're always on call. >> Yeah. And it for those of you that have

[16:01] emailed me directly, I also try to respond pretty pretty timely as well.

[16:05] So, I mean, it's not, you know, just because we're here once a month doesn't

[16:10] mean that that's all we're working. So, >> yeah, it's not all we're doing. It's

[16:14] there's there's a lot of times throughout the week that I got to go

[16:18] meet somebody to discuss a road issue or traffic issue sometimes even that we get

[16:23] involved with. Uh but yeah, >> and then we each have a leazison

[16:28] position. So we me with Northern Regional. I go to their meetings. I go

[16:33] to all their uh different functions they have. J um Jeremy, are you playing with

[16:38] the lights back there? >> I am not. [laughter]

[16:42] » Do we still have a road master that would meet with the construction and

[16:47] engineers throughout the day and and Mark himself?

[16:50] » Okay. Right now we don't have a a title of road master. We have a um lead person

[16:58] for the road crew. >> Are they out meeting with the uh

[17:02] » Yeah, I suppose. >> Yeah, they are as well.

[17:04] » Yeah. And so yeah, too. >> Yeah.

[17:07] » Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. But

[17:09] » you still want to be redundant and double up on it.

[17:12] » Well, you want more than one person's input on, you know, project. uh

[17:17] » and since it's a supervisors that make the ultimate decision that a supervisor

[17:22] should be there at any of the meetings a supervisor should be there.

[17:26] » How do we how does the township decide on health insurance and the benefits? Is

[17:32] it something you vote on or is it just something that's

[17:36] » during budget and budget's coming up? So that's coming up in October. So

[17:40] everybody's welcome to come to our budget meetings and we do have a

[17:44] insurance broker that we go through and they give us oh probably like six or

[17:50] eight different u plans and we pick out one that uh is you know the best plan

[17:59] for everybody. to kind of vote on the budget for healthare.

[18:02] » Yeah. Yeah. >> And who's our insurance? Is it Long or

[18:09] Long >> Longly Insurance? I don't know if you

[18:11] know. So,

[18:16] Mr. Garzana, did you have anything further?

[18:21] Okay. Thank you. All right. Um, anybody else?

[18:27] Okay, we'll move on. Adoption

[18:32] of the agenda as prepared. >> I'll make a motion to approve the agenda

[18:35] as prepared. >> I'll second.

[18:37] » All in favor say I. >> I.

[18:39] » I. Now, that's the amended one. And the only reason we amend the agenda is

[18:44] because somebody will come in late and we had a couple people this time twice,

[18:50] wasn't it, Mark? >> Yeah. Um, under under Pennsylvania uh

[18:55] the sunshine law, the agenda, the final agenda has to be posted 24 hours prior

[18:59] to the meeting. Once we post it, if there's any changes to the agenda, then

[19:04] we post the the amendment to that agenda so that it's clear what was originally

[19:09] posted and what changed. And we try to highlight the changes so you can see

[19:11] what was added or deleted. >> Yeah. And I think somebody asked us to

[19:15] add the time when it was changed. Did you do that?

[19:18] » That was me asking for it to be highlighted. Yeah.

[19:21] » And stuff so that we knew. >> See, we hear you. [laughter]

[19:25] Okay. approval of the previous minutes. That's

[19:30] the August 2026 minutes. >> And then there's also the July workshop

[19:36] meeting. >> Okay. That was my paper.

[19:39] » Yeah. >> Okay. Uh July workshop

[19:42] » minutes. So both of them we'll do it as a glyco.

[19:45] » Yeah. I'll I'll make a motion to approve uh July workshop minutes and August 2026

[19:50] minutes. >> You weren't

[19:52] » That was one church, correct? Is that the one you're talking about? All right.

[19:55] Let's do them individually. >> Okay.

[19:56] » Uh July workshop minutes. >> Uh

[19:59] » you approve it? >> Yes.

[20:01] » I'll second. All in favor say I. >> I.

[20:04] » I. And Brian, you abstain. >> Correct.

[20:07] » Yes. Correct. >> Okay. August the 26th.

[20:10] » I'll make a motion to approve the August 26

[20:13] » 206. >> And I'll second.

[20:15] » All in favor say I. >> I.

[20:17] » I. planning and zoning.

[20:24] » Who do we have? >> Yes, sorry. Thank you. Um

[20:28] just so we I know we've already talked about it, but we did hold the second

[20:31] meeting on the on the data center. I just want to say again, I appreciate um

[20:36] the people who have come out and have have participated and given input on

[20:40] these these meetings. Uh the meetings were, you know, well attended. uh they

[20:45] were handled in a respectful manner and I appreciate that. I realize that if you

[20:50] read the news, you turn on the TV, anything. I mean, data centers across

[20:54] the US are are a hot topic and and I feel like we're um as a community, we're

[20:59] trying to address it as a community and I just thank everyone who's

[21:02] participating in this to make it a a good process. I think it's going well.

[21:06] Um quick updates. There's no there was no zoning hearing board in August and

[21:09] there is no one planned for September at this time. planning commission met on

[21:13] the 24th. Um in that meeting, Freedom Square was on the agenda. Um

[21:20] the only thing that we talked about during the planning commission meeting

[21:23] were the modifications that are coming up. It's going back to the planning

[21:27] commission again for still making a recommendation. So that's that's still

[21:31] in process. And Rebecca March, our new zoning

[21:35] officer, was able to attend a two-day zoning academy class last week hosted by

[21:39] PAT. So, we've talked about, you know, the importance of training here and I

[21:44] it's good that we're, you know, Rebecca's been able to get out there and

[21:47] get some of the training and and all of us are the public works staff go to

[21:52] training. We all do training all the time and so that was just a a good class

[21:55] for her to attend. So, I think that's it.

[21:58] » Okay. >> Can I mention something to all of you?

[22:01] So, during that planning commission meeting, I did uh bring something up to

[22:06] Mr. Bosch. Um, another citizen here in the township did uh called u

[22:13] the York County tax and found out that he was $82,000

[22:17] behind in taxes and that he's now being taken off clean and green which

[22:21] eventually would happen. But you figure that's probably another what 50 or more

[22:27] in money. He very he took him very lightly. Very lightly. He's like at

[22:32] first he wouldn't admit it and then he was like we'll just deal with it when

[22:35] they get to me.

[22:39] Yeah, >> I hope that we never do anything again

[22:43] with that man. That's my opinion. >> We had a couple developers that were

[22:48] very difficult to work with. >> Well, he is no better.

[22:51] » Yeah, >> he was more interested in showing his

[22:53] little lion up in the air than discussing business. Okay.

[22:58] » He held him up like a lion. >> He has he has a new little baby and he's

[23:04] » six months old. That's why he hasn't been around to work, he said,

[23:07] » cuz he was too busy. >> He was too busy with the baby.

[23:10] » Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Real quick, um, uh, September, are we

[23:14] planning another another round? >> So, we'll have that at the planning

[23:18] commission meeting. So, we'll bring up that the data center will be on the

[23:21] agenda at planning commission, uh, for that discussion.

[23:24] » Okay. >> Okay. Uh, reports, we had the building

[23:28] report, the police report. Um, okay. Okay. As far as the police report, our

[23:34] numbers really went down. Um for the month of July, the um our calls were

[23:41] down 204 calls. Um also year to date, they're down 588 calls, which is great.

[23:50] Uh during July, patrol and criminal investigation department arrested 254

[23:56] criminal defendants. Um 66 more arrests than in July of last year. Of the 254

[24:03] arrests, 29 were felonies, 160 were misdemeanors, and 65 were summaries.

[24:12] We had um unfortunately there were five overdose overdose deaths uh during the

[24:19] month of July. Um we had um fortunately none were in

[24:26] Kowaka Township, so we're really good about that. uh Kawaga Township, we had

[24:31] some charges of uh um simple assault, aggravated assault, bad checks. Uh there

[24:37] are a lot of reports and Jamie, you can agree to this of um bikes, ebikes and

[24:44] little motorcycles and things. people put them on Facebook and what happens

[24:49] they put their address and everything and uh these this group I think it's a

[24:56] group of people that go around and breaking in the shed and then steal the

[24:59] bikes you know before they have a chance to sell them. So there were quite a few.

[25:05] Anything else Jamie on that?

[25:10] » That's a common ebikes is what's now but they did it they do it with bikes, four

[25:16] wheelers. I mean, it's common. >> Yep. And they list their address, so

[25:20] that's what makes it bad. [clears throat]

[25:26] All right. There's uh one of our um uh civilian positions up at Northern

[25:32] Regional is uh retiring in January and uh Lori Morard and they put applications

[25:39] out and they got 86 applications. >> Wow. So there was a lot of interest and

[25:45] I think they actually narrowed down to 14 out of that and then they were doing

[25:50] uh thorough interviews and really uh lowering that. Also

[25:56] um [clears throat] they met with Jefferson uh the staff met with

[25:59] Jefferson Burough officials. They have an interest in police services but they

[26:04] haven't heard anything back just yet. Also um there's uh where's the other

[26:10] one? What was the other community?

[26:15] » Handover or what was it? >> Springrove.

[26:18] » Springrove. Springrove Burrow. Uh they're also interested in starting

[26:22] police service at the beginning of the year. Um we're in the beginning stages

[26:28] of a planning a September 17th remembrance event uh for the officers

[26:33] and most likely will be held at Clauser Park in Manchester Township.

[26:42] That was it. So, I hear a motion to accept those reports.

[26:47] » I'll make a motion to approve the police report and the building permit reports

[26:50] and I'll second. >> All in favor say I.

[26:53] » I >> I treasures report. Everybody had a

[26:57] chance to review. >> Yes.

[26:59] » Okay. Do I hear a motion? >> I'll make a motion any

[27:04] » I'll make a motion to approve the August treasures report. I'll second that.

[27:08] » All in favor say I. >> I. I

[27:12] manager the red report. >> Thank you. Um

[27:17] » transportation is always a big topic. >> Our picture.

[27:21] » Yeah, we'll get to the picture. Don't don't please don't look on the picture

[27:24] on the right hand side. Um exit 28. Uh we've been talking about this for a

[27:29] while now. There the the plan is to add I saw you looking. Stop looking at the

[27:33] picture. You can't. Um we are planning on adding a right turn lane when you

[27:38] come off the ramp. That work will begin next Tuesday. So, it's going to get

[27:45] busy. It's going to get a little ask people to slow down and be very

[27:49] careful going through that area as the construction begins. Um, they're hoping

[27:53] to make the the work go as as efficiently as possible. So, they've

[27:58] asked for permission to run two 12-hour shifts. So, they'll run 24 hours a day

[28:02] to get that that ramp expansion and widening done as as efficiently as

[28:06] possible. Um during that time there will be a lane

[28:10] shift. The the shoulder will be closed and and they're trying to on on a

[28:14] Saturday or a Sunday limited times. They'll be a temporary closure. It's

[28:18] just they can finish some work in in the road. Um Locust Point um is closed and

[28:24] will stay closed through December. That is because the warehouses up there um

[28:30] for their Pendot permit had to do some realignment and regrading work on the on

[28:34] the sharp curb right there. that work is in process now. Um so that that road is

[28:40] closed and and causing it detours which is again putting more pressure in that

[28:44] suspended trail area. So I'm just asking again people be patient. Um traffic's a

[28:49] bit crazy. Um Canal Road Betterment Project. Um the development team is

[28:56] working with all the utility companies now to get all their utility plans in

[28:59] and set. Um, it's one of the big things that that we try to look at ahead of

[29:03] time is, you know, everything that we don't see. All the stuff that's

[29:07] underground, a lot of it has to be moved, relocated, adjusted. The bridge

[29:11] there on canal by 83 is being replaced. So, everything that's attached to that

[29:16] has to come off and be relocated somewhere else. So, there's a lot of

[29:19] work that goes into getting this stuff done. Um, Columbia Gas, as part of that

[29:23] is they're trying to get ahead of this project and so they are continuing to

[29:26] work. You'll see their staging down at um, Zan View Park. Uh they are working

[29:30] now on replacing their gas mains through the intersection of Canal Road and

[29:35] Suspender Trail. Um some good news uh we've been working with Med and we met

[29:41] with an engineer out there to look at bringing electricity into Mil Creek

[29:45] Park. One of the main drivers for that is we have our food truck Fridays and we

[29:50] want to be able to bring power into the gazebo or into the pavilions and other

[29:55] facilities so that if we wanted to and have live music out there, we can have

[29:58] amplified sound, not be running generators, etc. So, um, we're getting a

[30:02] quote now on seeing what that's going to cost to bring the electric into the

[30:06] park. >> Yeah. And we checked with a couple

[30:08] different bands and things and they don't want to come out with generators.

[30:11] They want electric. So I think once we do that, we'll get

[30:15] more interest and we can get more um more entertainment out there.

[30:18] » Yeah. And so this has nicer events out there, etc. Um so that that work is

[30:24] continuing. Um big news for us in the office is every year we have to have an

[30:29] audit um by the Pennsylvania Auditor General uh to look at our liquid fuels

[30:34] expenses. So they they came in, they met with us, Aaron for a couple hours. He

[30:38] was here. Um and we passed our audit. Yes. Um it's always a a good feeling.

[30:45] All right. Now, if you draw your eyes to the picture on the right, um one of the

[30:51] big tasks that we've been wanting to do now is to get a tree that we can

[30:55] decorate during the holiday season. And so we had two highly trained experts uh

[30:59] went out to a a unknown tree farm somewhere in northern um

[31:05] » we got lost a little bit but we >> got lost a little bit

[31:08] » ended up at a diner somewhere. Um so we are looking at putting a tree right out

[31:12] back here by the playground. And so in the coming around Christmas time they'll

[31:17] we'll put lights on it and decorate it. And that's going to be part of a new

[31:20] process and we'll talk about it the next meeting in more detail, but there'll be

[31:24] a new process we'll have for the holiday celebrations. So,

[31:27] » we'll have a tree lighting ceremony. And uh just to tell you the size of the

[31:32] tree. Um the one on the right is four feet high. [laughter]

[31:37] The one on the left is five. So, you could see how tall the tree is. It might

[31:41] be >> 11 12

[31:43] » 10 11 12. Yeah, somewhere up there. I wanted to put her on my shoulders, but

[31:47] she she don't want to. [laughter] >> Yeah.

[31:52] » So, that's it. Thank you. >> I have a question.

[31:54] » Yeah. >> The uh Canal Road government project,

[31:59] you may not know it, but you may. >> When they start that and they take the

[32:04] bridge out, they're going to open up regional way

[32:07] » first. >> Yeah, that's the plan right now.

[32:10] Actually, that's >> to divert the traffic. So it one of the

[32:15] it's actually been the main issue and why the project's been

[32:19] » yes is it took a lot of negotiating between developers that were already

[32:25] involved in the project and then North Point being a new member of the project.

[32:30] So, North Point with the construction and ultimate dedication of regional way

[32:35] that provided a necessary detour route, but there is a connection that has to

[32:41] occur between regional way and canal road. That connection will likely have

[32:45] to happen twice. Once in current conditions and once in future conditions

[32:49] when the new bridge isn't in the road, >> right? And then men them together.

[32:52] » Correct. Correct. So, I can I can save you uh geez probably nine months of my

[32:58] life and just tell you that was not a fun negotiation with all the developers

[33:01] to get them to decide who's doing what when and who's paying for what. So,

[33:06] that's delayed the project to this point. It really we thought it'd be

[33:10] happening this year. Uh but it's as it stands right now, regional way will be

[33:15] connected in a temporary alignment [clears throat] with existing canal road

[33:19] to provide a detour route when the bridge goes out.

[33:22] » Correct. And when the bridge goes in, it'll

[33:24] » When are they supposed to open up the culde-sac there?

[33:27] » Because I know the plans are in at the black top plant.

[33:31] » Correct. >> I I already know that.

[33:33] » So, the HOP the HOP is submitted uh right now. Actually, what they're

[33:38] working on, I don't believe they're going to do any major work on canal

[33:41] until they can get the utilities relocated.

[33:44] » Correct. Put the lines in now. So, we are actually we were kind of just dealt

[33:49] some interesting news this morning that the water line relocation is going to

[33:53] cost much more than anticipated. So, what I'll say I don't fresh news that we

[33:58] just learned today. That's the next thing that's got to get worked out. So,

[34:02] we don't have a formal timeline yet. It seems like as soon as every soon as one

[34:06] thing gets solved, something else comes up and then we have to bring the brain

[34:10] trust together and >> No, I get it. Figure it out.

[34:13] » Point point well taken. I get that. But in all honesty, if they would actually

[34:18] open up and just temporarily open up the culac

[34:21] » right now, that would get them trucks off that bridge

[34:24] » because I think the problem is >> that bridge is compromised bad.

[34:28] » I think it's that the problem is the height of the road and if they're going

[34:32] to do >> there that's why there's it's a it's a

[34:36] temporary connection is what they'll build first.

[34:38] » Correct. >> And then the permanent because the the

[34:40] road will come up when the new bridge comes in.

[34:43] » But right now they have a stone pile. It's a stone board firm to keep

[34:48] » guys from going past that cauticide. >> Right. What what's holding it up right

[34:52] now again [clears throat] that that that connection even in a temporary form is

[34:58] part of the overall project and part of the overall HOP.

[35:02] » Okay. >> So that piece was going to be bid I

[35:04] believe with the bridge relocation. Okay. That would have been step one of

[35:08] the bridge replacement. But without the bridge replacement moving that

[35:11] connection isn't moving. >> Correct.

[35:12] » So unless doing two HOs at the same >> Well, there's a there's Yeah, there's an

[35:19] HOP for the bridge >> and then there's going to be an HOP for

[35:22] the road wide. >> Okay. So, honestly, Jennifer, what they

[35:26] may do is depending upon how long this waterline delay is or depending upon

[35:32] what happens with the bridge, they're inspecting it every six months. Correct.

[35:35] It could cause something some part of this to break loose into more of an

[35:39] emergency situation than >> Correct. because the the the metal

[35:43] structure actually popped up the other day.

[35:45] » So it so I mean be very careful going over if you're coming from

[35:51] » East Manchester heading toward the trail, be very careful because that

[35:55] metal girder has popped up. >> Yeah, it's quite a bump. Yeah. So

[35:59] » Okay, Mark, do you have anything else? >> That's it. Thank you.

[36:02] » Okay, thank you. Um solicitor's report. >> So

[36:09] couple of things. Um, we have an ongoing litigation matter

[36:14] with uh for some of the condemnation that's been done around the canal road.

[36:19] There was a board appointed in that recently. Um,

[36:24] nothing that needs any action, just an update.

[36:26] » Could you turn your mic? >> Oh, sorry. Try and leave it off so I

[36:30] don't. Um, so I was just saying for in case anyone didn't hear, there's some

[36:36] property that is involved with the Canal Road project that was condemned to use

[36:42] for some rightways and other things. There was a uh board of viewers that was

[36:46] appointed which just sets the price at which um that will be compensated. So

[36:51] that was recently filed work in the courts. Um

[36:56] there was a uh the bond has been called in for the

[37:02] enclave. Um that's been started by our firm um you know to get compensation for

[37:08] that see if we can recover what's done. Um it's helpful that we had been in

[37:14] touch with the developer for you know re up until recently. So that will help our

[37:18] case um to show you know that we were under the belief that they were going

[37:23] that they were going to do this. Um so that will that will assist in

[37:27] » uh you know with that case. Um, and then something that that uh isn't

[37:34] for now, but just kind of I'm planting the seed for down the road is I you know

[37:38] I think and I've been talking with Mark about this and this might be relevant to

[37:42] some of the items under the the the new business, but you know, Konowago's

[37:48] ordinances are have been on the books for a long time and I think there's

[37:51] certainly a need to kind of do a comprehensive

[37:55] review and update of those. I mean, I I know Mark's in the process of gathering

[37:59] all the ordinances that are kind of everywhere and making a compilation of

[38:04] those, but I think once, you know, even once we get them all together that um

[38:10] you know, I I would suggest that I think you need to do some stuff that, you

[38:13] know, times have changed and a lot of those ordinances are outdated. It makes

[38:17] it hard to enforce things because there's so many changes in the language

[38:21] may may or may not, you know, apply to things anymore. So, sometime in the

[38:25] next, you know, year or two, I would say, you know,

[38:30] we're gonna I'm going to suggest that you, you know, that we look at doing an

[38:33] updated ordinance system, you know, comprehensive. I think it would go well

[38:37] with some of the other stuff that we're trying to do that, you know, the new

[38:40] plans and and things like that. Um, and there are new tools that I think

[38:46] that will make that more efficient. AI, you know, we just need more we just

[38:51] need more data centers. So, we >> saw a tomato. [laughter] I have a tomato

[38:54] down here. Go there and make the tomatoes.

[38:58] » Yeah, >> I got tomatoes down here.

[39:01] » We'll throw some lettuce and some croutons up here and I'll mix up a

[39:04] little bacon and we're good. [laughter] >> Okay, that's it.

[39:09] » Okay. All right. Any questions? All right.

[39:15] Thank you, Steve. Engineers report. >> Okay. So it it has been a very busy

[39:21] month especially with uh wrapping up road projects and uh dealing with so

[39:26] many coordination issues with Pendot. So as I was sitting here and looking

[39:30] through the manager's report which the manager always goes before me so he

[39:34] talks about all the engineering stuff [laughter]

[39:36] um that he asked me about. No just kid. So I can I can report that I was

[39:41] involved in every one of those items except the Christmas tree on March

[39:45] [laughter] happily. But it's been a again it's been a busy month. The uh the

[39:50] chip seal uh the chip sealing was done uh the f with the fog seal going down

[39:55] yesterday on those roads. Um we've been inspecting and troubleshooting a couple

[40:01] areas out on Bremer that needs to be cleaned up after the paving. Um some

[40:05] drainage issues that we need to deal with. So that's ongoing. Uh but that

[40:09] pretty well brings a close to the 2026 street bids as of as of yesterday.

[40:15] And I will give a just a quick update on developments for those of you who are

[40:20] not at the planning commission meeting. Again, we did we did have a discussion

[40:25] with uh Tim Pash on Freedom Square phase 2. Um phase one has resumed

[40:30] construction. I know it's been sitting for a while, but that resumed

[40:33] construction as of late last week, early this week.

[40:36] » Uh phase two is submitted. The big thing that we're waiting on on the planning

[40:42] commission end is again the sewer. um they'll [cough] have to do a a planning

[40:46] module with a memorandum of understanding related to future

[40:49] capacity. That all needs to be worked out with the sewer authority and

[40:53] ultimately approved by DP to approve that capacity for phase two. And so

[40:59] basically at the at the last planning commission meeting, we just held the

[41:02] discussion about the the development, what the future plans are, what the

[41:06] future phasing might be. No action was taken by the planning commission and at

[41:10] this point I cannot see the township taking any action on it until the

[41:14] planning module is figured out for phase two. But phase one now has started up

[41:18] and and continues. We'll talk about uh the other the other

[41:22] big development here going is the Carbana development. We'll talk about

[41:25] that with the time extension item on the agenda in a minute.

[41:29] » Okay. All right. >> Any questions?

[41:33] » All right. Thank you, Derek. Yep. Uh unfinished business. We're back to

[41:38] Carvana. Did you want to take that Mark then?

[41:43] » Oh, Derek. >> It does. Yes. So,

[41:46] » sorry. >> That's fine. So, uh this evening on the

[41:49] agenda is to discuss a a time extension for Carvana. The uh township's uh

[41:56] responsibility to act on this plan was was going to expire here in September. A

[42:01] time extension gives us more time to review the plan. um because if we

[42:06] wouldn't if we would be forced to act on it tonight, we would have to deny it for

[42:12] unadressed comments and we don't want to do that. So, we want to extend it to

[42:15] give some more time to figure it out. Uh probably the biggest topic of uh on this

[42:20] plan has been traffic. Um, as many of you are aware, uh, at recent discussions

[42:26] with PennDOT, um, right now what we're kind of waiting for on the township side

[42:30] is we're waiting to see how the highway occupancy permit uh, plays out is there

[42:36] are likely going to be some improvements that Pandot is going to require either

[42:41] locally or regionally. Uh, yet to be determined. Um, and Corey Green's here

[42:46] tonight. I'll let him talk in a little bit here. Um, but basically we're The

[42:51] state is currently discussing with the developer uh the the potential traffic

[42:56] impact from the site, the existing traffic conditions in the area and

[43:01] discussions are ongoing about what what can be done and what can reasonably be

[43:05] done um or reasonably expected of this developer um to address it. So, we're

[43:10] taking a little bit of a pause on approving the plan at this point. It's

[43:14] really the the last technical issue that we have to address would be this

[43:18] traffic. Cory, if I've missed anything or

[43:21] » No, I I think you pretty much covered all the points. I don't really have

[43:26] anything to add unless there's questions for me.

[43:32] » So, I'll recommend the uh supervisors accept the uh time extension from

[43:38] » Carvana.

[43:46] questions.

[43:50] » Question. >> Okay.

[43:53] » Just I'm understanding the the process a little bit

[43:57] develops. Um so without the sewer module has not been approved yet because it's

[44:04] only been submitted D. So really you can move on with development from based off

[44:08] your other projects D until you have that approval on the sewer as well. Is

[44:12] that correct? So with with this one, it's not as severe as Freedom Square.

[44:18] Um, so with Freedom Square, I wouldn't want to move forward on a planning

[44:22] module. I wouldn't want to move forward on approving the plan because that's

[44:25] creating parcels. >> So I don't want to see phase two

[44:29] creating parcels without sewer capacity [clears throat] with this. In this

[44:32] situation, the parcel exists. It's just a question of whether or not the

[44:35] building can be constructed. So what you'll see kind of in our land

[44:39] development planning phase here if the planning module we can take action on

[44:43] the plan and conditionally approve the plan pending the planning module which

[44:48] may likely happen here because I think we have protection that if we

[44:52] conditionally approve the plan they can't record the plan or construct it

[44:56] until the planning module is approved. If for some reason the planning module

[45:00] doesn't get approved, then the project's plug is pulled or they've got to come

[45:04] back and revise their project in the parameters that will meet what can be

[45:08] approved through the planning module. >> Okay, that helps. And just one more kind

[45:11] of follow up on that then um with the extension to allow them to be able to

[45:16] develop those mitigation for the traffic impacts. Will they bring those back to

[45:20] us as a community? because there was a lot of talk last time when they had

[45:24] their pictures up there and their lines and their back and forth with the trucks

[45:28] and the cars. >> Will that come back to the community

[45:31] again? >> So, whatever improvements are proposed

[45:36] will come back to the supervisors. I believe the the planning commission

[45:40] already conditionally approved the plan um pending PENDOT's uh pending Pendot's

[45:47] comments. So, the plan now sits with the supervisors. We're looking to see those

[45:52] improvements incorporated and we'll be able to throw them up on the screen

[45:56] before the supervisors take action on the plan.

[45:58] » Okay. Thank you. That was very helpful. >> Yep.

[46:02] » Okay. Any other questions? And so tonight we're just granting additional

[46:07] time. >> You're just acknowledging acknowledging

[46:10] receipt of the time extension. >> Okay. Do we have a a date on that time

[46:14] extension? >> Be 45 days from September 26th, I

[46:20] believe. to November 10th, 2020.

[46:23] » November 10th. >> November 10th. Yeah.

[46:25] » Okay. >> All right. Do I hear a motion to accept

[46:30] um and acknowledge that um extension till November 10th?

[46:37] » I'll make a motion to acknowledge the extension till November 10th or the car

[46:42] project. [snorts] >> I'll second that.

[46:43] » All in favor say I. I. >> I. Okay. Thank you, Cory.

[46:48] » Thank you. Thanks, G. Okay, new business.

[46:53] Uh, trash bids. Erin, do you have anything for us?

[46:58] » Um, I don't have anything else. >> What your mic?

[47:02] Sorry. >> Um, it does look like that goods was the

[47:07] overall low bidder um for a one day a week service. Um, answer site was low

[47:13] bidder if we went with a two-day a week trash service. Um, Steve, I'll ask that

[47:18] you talk a little bit more on this. We did get sent a letter by form waste

[47:22] asking that we rebid um just because of how the bid sheet was interpreted by

[47:28] alers. >> Yeah. So, we got a letter from from

[47:33] Penways just saying, "Look, we thought the bid the

[47:38] that it was confusing because there were so many because there was variables,

[47:42] whether it was one day, whether it was two days, whether we were supposed to

[47:44] bid on the whole three-year period, whether each year could be bid separate,

[47:50] you know, was it a three-year total price? Was it a per year price, etc."

[47:54] But, you know, we also got responses from some of the other

[47:58] biders saying basically like, "Hey, this was as you know, this was as good and

[48:02] detailed a bid as as we've seen." So, you know, I'm I'm fine. I don't think

[48:06] there's any reason to do anything or change the bids or pull

[48:10] the bids or do anything like that that that Penwaist was asking. I mean, they

[48:14] they had the chance to bid with everybody else. Um I I don't you know I

[48:19] think this is just [clears throat] they didn't have the lowest bid and I

[48:23] think they're looking for a second bite at the apple and I you know I I think

[48:26] that uh you know to see what everybody else did and then maybe adjust. I don't

[48:30] think that's necessary. I think we had a number of people they were the only ones

[48:33] that had questions. They basically didn't say anything at the time they

[48:37] were submitting their bid like well we're confused. We we don't understand

[48:40] how to bid or anything like that. So, I'm, you know, I I think we're fine and

[48:44] and there's no reason to do anything other than accept the bids that are the

[48:47] most advantageous to the township. >> Okay. So, um since goods was the lowest

[48:56] bid, uh could you explain a couple of the things? Um are we having one or two

[49:02] day on that? >> So, I think it would be ad just to stick

[49:06] with one day. Um, I don't think there's really anybody who would want to utilize

[49:12] that two-day service. And that would mean trash trucks coming through here

[49:16] constantly. It would be non-stop, >> but we would we would have um them go

[49:21] into different areas different days of the week.

[49:24] » Yeah, you'd still have traffic through there like all but all non-stop with

[49:28] that. >> Yeah, I think one day a week would

[49:30] » Yeah. So, so far I haven't heard anybody ask for more than one collection per

[49:37] week. >> Our our our trash bills if we go two

[49:40] days a week would double. >> Oh, yeah.

[49:42] » So, we're not in favor of that. >> Sure.

[49:45] » Um services would pretty much stay the same as they are now. Um your trash day

[49:50] may change. Um that was one concession we made to try and get more biders. um

[49:56] is allowing them to come in more days a week than just the two or three that

[50:02] there are now. So, your trash day could change. That would be about the only

[50:06] [clears throat] major change. Um Goods is local. They're located here in

[50:11] Manchester as well. Um they've picked up several contracts and I so far haven't

[50:18] heard >> Yeah, I was going to ask

[50:19] » anything adverse about that. >> Yeah. Okay.

[50:21] » And they have low volume bags. >> They do have the low volume service.

[50:25] Yes, they'll be offering a low volume just as you have right now.

[50:29] » And they're a decent group of guys. >> Okay.

[50:31] » Yeah. >> So, that I do know. I know a couple of

[50:33] them. >> Awesome.

[50:36] » Throwing our trash cans down. >> Well, it would be a whole new set of

[50:40] trash cans. >> Well, I haven't gotten mail for a couple

[50:43] days because they continuously put the trash cans when they're done

[50:47] [clears throat] right on my mailbox. So, I know on trash day I'm not going to get

[50:50] mail. No matter where we put them, they go back in front of the mailbox.

[50:54] » Well, that's good news. There's no bills. [laughter]

[50:57] » Got a couple questions in the back. >> So, you said that they are going to do

[51:03] the bag as well. [clears throat] Um, and then will we also have the

[51:07] option for no cost bulk pickup because right now I don't have to pay for extra

[51:12] pickups. >> Yep. You'll still get the the one item

[51:15] per week. um whether or not you'll have to call in to schedule that or whether

[51:20] they'll just allow for you to put it out. Um that is something that will

[51:24] relay to you further process. >> Okay, that's good to know. Do you have a

[51:28] sidebyside comparison though of like what we get now and what goods disposal

[51:33] is offering and what the cost difference is

[51:37] » that can be shared?

[51:41] » Yeah, we can I can put that together formally. I don't have anything right

[51:45] now in hand, but I can definitely put that together formally for you and um

[51:50] email you or put that on the website. >> Yes.

[51:53] » Okay. Yeah, that would be appreciated just so we know what what changes may

[51:57] occur, but it doesn't sound like there's going to be a lot, but I don't want

[52:00] » Right. >> Do you know what you're paying now?

[52:02] » Uh I think I just paid my 97. >> 97 every three months.

[52:08] » Every three months. >> A lot of money.

[52:10] » That's a lot of money. >> It is.

[52:12] » Yeah. So this one would be this is for the whole year, correct?

[52:16] » That 300. >> Yes.

[52:19] » $33421. >> But will they bill it quarterly?

[52:24] » Probably. >> Probably. Or

[52:26] » do we have somebody from goods here? >> Okay.

[52:29] » Sorry, I didn't want to jump in. [laughter]

[52:32] » We will build quarterly just as you're used to it. I I can't think of anything

[52:35] that changes at all in the program. >> Okay. Um the only thing only

[52:39] recommendation I would make is people you know for the low volume we could

[52:43] also provide carts which any of the haulers would do but the bag thing is

[52:47] kind of it's [snorts] messy stuff gets everywhere but you know if you could do

[52:52] it all carts but it's still you know still a low volume system.

[52:56] » Oh so you can get the can but do the low volume

[52:58] » smaller can >> the smaller can for both recycle and

[53:03] » trash. So that's good to know >> because Larry, you have a gross of um

[53:10] bags, don't you? >> At least at least a one year contract.

[53:15] » Uh that's Well, >> is that a three-year contract?

[53:19] » It would be a three-year contract with two um optional one-year extensions. So,

[53:23] at the end of the three years, we would evaluate if we wanted to continue with

[53:27] goods or place our work out for bid. Um and then if we accepted the extension,

[53:32] we would do the same thing for the second year. We would reevaluate at the

[53:35] end of that first year um and see if we wanted to

[53:38] » increase for four years. >> I'm sorry.

[53:40] » Possibly no price increase for four years then.

[53:43] » No, it would it would increase right uh for the first three years it would be

[53:47] $33421.

[53:50] Uh the first extension on [clears throat] the fourth year it would

[53:54] be 370. So it would go up like

[54:00] » and then for the next year it's 383. So,

[54:06] » which would still be cheaper. >> Well, looks like it jumps. No, it does.

[54:10] It jumps. It jumps every year though. >> It does. It's 334 the first year, 33421.

[54:16] » Oh, >> the first year, 345

[54:19] 91 the second year, and 35801 the third year.

[54:24] » Okay.

[54:29] » Is that right? Because I'm seeing 310. I'm seeing 310 for 2027,

[54:34] » 321 for 2028.

[54:39] » That's the low volume. Okay. Okay. Okay. Sorry about that.

[54:45] » Okay, [laughter] numbers on this sheet.

[54:49] » Mr. Lagani, you had a question. >> So, they provide [clears throat] the

[54:53] totes. Is there a rental fee for the totes or can you buy it outright so you

[54:56] don't have to pay a monthly fee for the tote?

[54:58] » There's no monthly fee for the tote.

[55:02] Good question. >> I I think there's a little confusion

[55:06] with all those numbers because they they actually bid it incorrectly. They filled

[55:11] the bid form out incorrectly. There was only one line for the price. Um but they

[55:19] they filled out a lot. >> Okay.

[55:24] » What you're saying this this bid we have is incorrect.

[55:28] » They they filled it out incorrectly. But they're going to honor it.

[55:33] » I think his point is the other companies could have filled it out incorrectly as

[55:36] well and maybe gave you better prices. And you're not looking at apples and

[55:39] apples now. You're looking at one apple versus orange.

[55:42] » Okay. We have a question. >> I'm with Ben Waste and that's exactly

[55:45] why we submitted the form across the [clears throat] board. Each provider

[55:52] did different things. Cella provided an annual rate. goods provided broken out

[55:58] by three years when the bid specifically stated he wanted a fixed threeyear rate

[56:03] one year for the first year extension and the second year extension. That's

[56:08] the only reason we offered or asked about possible rebid because you are not

[56:14] comparing apples to apples based on how it's how they were submitted.

[56:20] » And are you with a different company?

[56:27] » [laughter]

[56:29] » Well, >> do we hear

[56:32] » even if you look at Well, even a couple years ago you wanted to start our own

[56:37] trash company. It's like, yeah, okay. >> But even if we look at these numbers,

[56:44] » it doesn't matter if we do one, two, three, four, five years. [clears throat]

[56:49] Goods is lower in all of them. I [clears throat] guess the point is if

[56:55] you request it in the bid specs, you must honor the bid specs. Even if we are

[57:00] not the low bidder, that's I'm not trying to say you need to go with pen

[57:05] waste. If bid specs requests a fixed three-year rate, that's what should be

[57:10] submitted. If it's not, >> I don't it's not responsive.

[57:16] » Can I ask a question on that though? Is low bid our only determining factor that

[57:21] you're utilizing to make that decision? >> No.

[57:23] » Or are there other >> service services as well as as far as

[57:27] someone that we have? You know, >> we've had a lot

[57:31] » of complaints >> complaints with Absolutely.

[57:33] » Oh, yeah. >> and that's one thing.

[57:38] [laughter] >> I just want to like kind of put that out

[57:41] there that it's not just >> No, it's not.

[57:46] » So, you take it consideration the best value.

[57:50] » Right. Right. >> Yeah. And and usually you do take the

[57:55] low bid unless there's we know there's an issue.

[57:59] » Yeah. >> I think you need to clarify that it's

[58:01] not this is not like a like a bundle meal here. It's it's the lowest

[58:05] responsive bidder. So you can't pick like the fourth because you think it's

[58:10] the best value. >> Okay. You have to start at the bottom

[58:13] and actually disqualify biders until you Yes,

[58:16] » that's what I was looking at. >> Yeah, we Yeah, just clarify.

[58:19] » Yeah, those others can be used as factors if you want to eliminate

[58:22] somebody like if you're if you've had a problematic history or something or you

[58:26] were aware of some other thing. >> We we had that with we had that with

[58:30] line pain. The one company that we had um they were inferior. So even when they

[58:36] bid, we would not take their bid. >> Mr. have gone.

[58:40] » As the solicitor, can you verify that we're not opening ourselves up to a

[58:43] lawsuit if we accept the first bid and then the other two say, "Well, you

[58:47] should have took their bid and then >> Here's here's here's what I'm going to

[58:51] answer." And this is a question that I get all the time. If you're asking

[58:54] » sue anybody for anything. >> Yes.

[58:56] » Oh my goodness. [snorts] >> I I can't tell.

[58:59] » I wanted it to be thought of, that's all.

[59:01] » Yeah. Yep. Well, one question I would have for uh the attendees here, how many

[59:06] of our residents want to continue with the trash service we have? Let's see

[59:10] some hands.

[59:13] » Okay, I think that tells you right there.

[59:17] » What was the what was the the current um price per for

[59:24] » and change? So are I mean granted there are are some

[59:30] adjustments that township makes to account for like things like

[59:33] delinquencies. Oh no no no actually I'm sorry. No that's on us. Yeah. Um our

[59:39] price our quarterly price as the lowest responsive bidder was 9450 per quart.

[59:49] So we are we're lower than current

[59:54] and we are the lowest responsive bid. We fil we filled the form out. Correct.

[59:59] » Okay. Well, we have till December. Do we want to put this on homemark?

[1:00:03] » If you want to we can we can tailor this till the next meeting if you want. But

[1:00:06] » may I jump in here? So I did ask a question to the township which was

[1:00:10] answered. They were looking for according to Miss Dell and I don't know

[1:00:14] if you know consult with your township manager but they were looking for a per

[1:00:19] unit price per year. That's the way we broke it out. uh you're also looking for

[1:00:24] a low volume service which we broke out. There's nothing wrong with breaking out

[1:00:29] your prices. You want to add the three together, you get the same number that

[1:00:32] they're at or average. Uh the reason we did it that way was to be responsive

[1:00:37] because if you're asking for low volume, you can't go into a bid and say, "All

[1:00:42] right, our regular price is 334." And then all of a sudden you accept our bid,

[1:00:46] but we didn't give you a low volume price. So to me and as a township

[1:00:50] resident I would want visibility to all those things which we provided very well

[1:00:54] laid out there for the threeear and then plus the two extra terms. So to me it

[1:00:59] seems very straightforward. There was an option for the low volume

[1:01:03] price though was there was an op there was a a line portion that asked for the

[1:01:08] price for the bag which was the low volume option that was

[1:01:13] presented >> which was filled out on the

[1:01:19] » you [clears throat] had another resident question

[1:01:23] » oh sorry are we are they still going to take big items and and brush Yes.

[1:01:32] That's that's part of the that's part of the the township put that together. That

[1:01:35] that's part of it. >> And Christmas tree, I suppose.

[1:01:39] » Yes. >> Yeah. Is Darl

[1:01:42] » um during the last negotiations years ago, we got a number of dumpsters

[1:01:48] included in the bid. Are you >> with the fire company? You're saying

[1:01:51] » is that still going to be included? >> I believe that was in the bid.

[1:01:55] » Yes, they were included. >> Yep.

[1:01:57] » Okay. Stop by. >> Yeah, good question. Would there be u

[1:02:03] any uh reason for us not to vote on it tonight? I

[1:02:07] » mean, their highest year [clears throat] is still lower than everybody else's

[1:02:12] average, right? So, I don't see there's any reason to delay

[1:02:17] this. I'm I'm comfortable. Again, you know, I I can't say what how every

[1:02:22] anybody's going to respond, but I think it's entirely defensible that we took a

[1:02:26] bid that was significantly lower than everybody else.

[1:02:29] » Okay. >> In in the bid contract and and Erin and

[1:02:34] I went through this, we did ask for our bid for the first three years, we didn't

[1:02:37] say it had to stay the same all three years. And I think that's where good

[1:02:41] simply said each year we do it differently. So, I don't I don't find

[1:02:44] that being unresponsive or non-responsive. I think they chose to

[1:02:47] break it out differently than at one price for the first three years, then

[1:02:50] escalator for the next two. That's how I saw it.

[1:02:55] [snorts]

[1:02:58] » But then again, if we take the first three years, um the other companies,

[1:03:03] they're the same for all three years. >> Right.

[1:03:05] » But they're still higher. They're still higher.

[1:03:07] » But they're still higher. >> Correct. Right. Correct.

[1:03:09] » Uh so each one is higher than even our third year.

[1:03:14] » Right. That's what I'm saying. actually down to uh the second year extension

[1:03:18] which is five years. >> Yeah.

[1:03:20] » So >> which is why we kind of we took the

[1:03:23] charge and then summed at the bottom looking at the first three years that's

[1:03:26] that in the initial three-year cost per household

[1:03:30] » just to try to give a fair way to make sure we're looking at it right. We

[1:03:33] balanced them out and and goods came out lower. And if others had chosen to to

[1:03:38] alter their price per year each year, we we would have run those numbers and

[1:03:43] looked at it. But based on the total bid value looking at the first three years

[1:03:48] and the two escalator years I believe goods was a response to better in the

[1:03:52] lowest.

[1:03:58] » The totes >> well if and if you have if you have low

[1:04:03] volume they're still going to get some kind of a um can card or something.

[1:04:07] » That's what I'm suggesting. The midsp spec do bags. I can tell you I can speak

[1:04:11] probably for everybody in this row. bags are an issue problem rather give smaller

[1:04:16] to the low volume than do bags. >> Well, we can we can give the toters out

[1:04:21] for $39 [clears throat] a year. >> I can say that

[1:04:25] » I like the large to even though I'm by myself. I still like having the large.

[1:04:33] » Okay. Do um I hear any uh recommendations for um approval to vote

[1:04:40] on this tonight? Yeah, I think we can prove on it. What's your thoughts, John?

[1:04:43] » Uh, I think we're fine. Let's do it. >> I'll make a motion to approve goods as

[1:04:47] the new trash hauler. >> And I'll second that.

[1:04:50] » All in favor say I. >> I.

[1:04:52] » I. >> Any discussion?

[1:04:56] » Good. >> Okay. All right. Thank you.

[1:05:01] » Okay. Uh 2027 SPCA animal care and housing agreement. Now, that's one I

[1:05:08] would like to hold off on a little bit. >> I didn't really get a chance to read

[1:05:13] through everything.

[1:05:18] » I really didn't get a chance to read through everything. So, did you guys

[1:05:21] have a chance to >> Yeah, I did it. And and Okay, I did have

[1:05:25] a question on the one here. One of the specs to what we took in here.

[1:05:30] » Yeah, I did too. And I was looking at that and I thought that's an awful lot

[1:05:33] of questions. >> Well, okay. What what is the the TNR

[1:05:36] cats? [clears throat] >> Trap SN

[1:05:39] » trap and release. >> Trap and release. Okay. What's the SN

[1:05:42] stand for? >> Spay and neuter. Okay. I'm thinking I'm

[1:05:47] thinking serial level. >> Yeah. [laughter] They're they're feral

[1:05:50] cats that they uh trap and then they take them in and then they spay and

[1:05:55] neuter them and they clip their ear. So if they are trapped again, they know

[1:06:00] that they're uh not going to raise the price on that, I believe.

[1:06:04] » Okay. So you got what a >> So the stray Okay. What What are the

[1:06:08] just the strays at? Is that just a stray that someone took in?

[1:06:12] » Well, there are people here in the township that actually will catch them

[1:06:15] where they're running around at and go get them spayed and ne and they bring

[1:06:19] them back from where they called them and let them go. I'm glad

[1:06:22] » owner surrendered with seven >> and then the forms do that.

[1:06:27] Like a lot of farmers do that. >> It's not just like there are places

[1:06:31] where people do not >> because I have multiple stray cats in my

[1:06:38] » my dog hates cats too, >> but it's okay.

[1:06:43] » So studies have shown that the the TNR program, which is trap, neuter, release,

[1:06:49] is one of the most effective ways to manage deferral cat population. If you

[1:06:54] go and you trap them and you relocate them, it just creates a vacancy, if you

[1:06:59] will, in that colony and the colonies will only get so big and then it it's

[1:07:04] they move on. So, if they keep having babies, then then the colonies spread

[1:07:08] and they get bigger and bigger. Correct. >> If you do a TNR program, um, then you

[1:07:12] are limiting the reproductive process of these feral cats.

[1:07:17] It is. But my concern with all that is the fact that this township paid them

[1:07:21] more money to keep them and then they raised the cost of that. I believe it's

[1:07:27] now like $40. Is anybody on there with it? Used to be 20, but I think it's 40

[1:07:32] now. If if we as a township do not sign an agreement with the SPCA, then that

[1:07:40] creates problems for us because then if we have stray animals, then we have not

[1:07:44] able to take them there. >> Yeah. if we don't have an agreement with

[1:07:47] them. >> And we had a big problem last year

[1:07:50] because if we didn't sign a contract, u not only would they not take it, but if

[1:07:56] we did sign a contract at that time, they had to be brought in by

[1:08:02] police officer who who wants to put a crazy dog in the back of their car.

[1:08:07] » That's that's not a good use of >> or we had to have a uh animal uh

[1:08:12] » controller >> controller,

[1:08:13] » which we don't have right now either. We don't have an animal. So, two separate

[1:08:16] pieces. One is having the SPCA as a place we can take the animals to and

[1:08:20] then animal control officer that goes out and gets them. I know Becky, you had

[1:08:23] done some research on this when we you first started. Um, is there anything you

[1:08:28] want to add to this about what you learned?

[1:08:30] » Well, you already said basically what I

[1:08:34] learned that that you want the contract because otherwise you have no recourse.

[1:08:40] If an animal shows up and you're trying to get it someplace, there's just

[1:08:45] nothing. They will turn you away. They will not accept it if you don't have the

[1:08:49] contract. >> And the animal control officer helps

[1:08:53] because that's somebody who can respond and take it from your property and

[1:08:58] [snorts] get it to the SBCA. If you don't have that, then that falls on the

[1:09:04] property owner, whoever is there dealing with with the stray animal.

[1:09:08] » Right. >> You had a question. Um I have like

[1:09:11] followed the SPCA. The one thing was last year um Adams County asked um

[1:09:16] nobody in this area to keep bringing their we've been taking our cats over to

[1:09:21] Adams County because the SPCA in York was not taking cats.

[1:09:26] » So I would kind of be hesitant on what I agree with with the SPCA. Also their

[1:09:33] their person in charge um doesn't like smells of cats. don't doesn't like the

[1:09:40] environment, so they rent out the um the bank next door and that's where he works

[1:09:45] out of. >> So, um

[1:09:48] » Wow. >> Yeah.

[1:09:49] » I mean, >> are you talking about Stephen?

[1:09:52] » Is that the guy? >> I think so. Yeah, he's the guy in

[1:09:56] charge. >> Yeah, he was the guy that wouldn't leave

[1:09:59] unless I signed a contract. >> Wow.

[1:10:02] » And then I just got up and left the room. So, I guess he left. Or is he

[1:10:06] still back here? [laughter] I'm just saying they feel like they're

[1:10:11] the only game in town. >> Yeah. Well, and basically they are and a

[1:10:15] lot of people when they they wouldn't take them they would take them up to

[1:10:18] Adams County and then Adams County was really throwing a fed. So when I went up

[1:10:22] to Yeah. When I went up to Northern Regional, um, it wasn't about police

[1:10:27] work or anything, but I asked all the other commissioners from other

[1:10:30] municipalities, you know, what their thought was, and I got with them to bulk

[1:10:36] about it. And we ended up through the 11 municipalities having that change that

[1:10:43] yes, they would take the animals >> because before and it started out at

[1:10:48] like 3,000, $4,000, kept going up. This year it's $7,759.

[1:10:54] » I think if you look at their pay, like this the person in charge.

[1:10:58] » Oh yeah, they're getting paid. >> Yeah, it's a lot of money.

[1:11:00] » Well, it looks like if if I'm calculate the numbers right, it looks like they

[1:11:03] took in 199 cats and at that price that's $39 a cat

[1:11:12] for last year. >> Well, they taking dogs, too.

[1:11:16] » Well, I'm just Well, it just says stray intakes.

[1:11:18] » Oh, okay. So, they took in 199 animals from what I

[1:11:24] » do. [snorts] We want to do we want to review this a little bit.

[1:11:27] » Sure. There's no rush. >> Yeah.

[1:11:29] » Uh we have till December something here. I forget what the date was um to

[1:11:35] » I think it's mid December to sign this. >> We could discuss it especially during

[1:11:41] our budget meeting. Right. >> We can.

[1:11:45] They do they do a lot of work. If um there's an abusive family uh and

[1:11:50] somebody one of the spouses has to move out or the children, they take in the

[1:11:55] animals at no charge. >> The only thing is with that though, and

[1:11:59] I know this for firsthand, I know too many people that have lost their animals

[1:12:03] by doing that. They get homeless and they're stuck somewhere and they have no

[1:12:08] other recourse to do except take their animal there to be on a 30 day hold so

[1:12:15] they can get back on their feet and then within

[1:12:19] » a week of that animal being there, that animal is gone.

[1:12:24] They don't uphold what they say. >> Well, when we went in there and did the

[1:12:28] Torah, the only thing I seen in there were cats and pitbulls.

[1:12:32] That was the, you know, basically the only animal they had

[1:12:35] » $40 now for TNR and it used to be 20. >> So that's a lot of money for people who

[1:12:42] are volunteeringly picking that animal up, taking it there, getting it taken

[1:12:47] care of, and then coming back to get it because there are people who are

[1:12:51] actually citizens who are putting that out of their pocket to control the

[1:12:55] population, right? And for them to keep raising the

[1:12:59] cost and then asking for more money from us.

[1:13:02] I I got a little bit. [cough] >> Well, that's why we every year it's just

[1:13:06] you can always count on her Loretta getting irritated about it. So,

[1:13:11] » well, I'm right there with you because I don't feel like

[1:13:14] » Well, and you always hear uh people because uh money to them through, you

[1:13:19] know, funerals and things and uh you know, they seem to get a lot of money

[1:13:23] and they get a lot of food donations. I mean, bags and bags. When I went in

[1:13:27] there, they had they had skids of food and they had um and they said that this

[1:13:33] was all donated and cases of cat food and litter and

[1:13:38] » and we need to do a right to know. But point well taken though if if they would

[1:13:43] keep the price at $20 an hour. It is actually saving the SBCA anyway because

[1:13:50] it it's they're doing it as by their doctors. But if per say uh if they ch

[1:13:57] raise the the price for you know the TNR at 40 people are not going to want to do

[1:14:04] that. So then the cats are going to just multiply. People are just going to just

[1:14:07] let them row. Okay. Then you're going to have all these people gathered getting

[1:14:11] fit by or getting strapped by strays that don't have their vaccinations and

[1:14:16] so forth. Then you have um >> just other just other things to where

[1:14:22] the animals are not being taken care of. >> But if you keep it if they would

[1:14:26] actually keep it at $20 where people are okay with that, they're still getting

[1:14:31] the animal back. They're feeding it. Sometimes they can get them nice enough

[1:14:36] to where they'll actually bring them in their house and they get their shots.

[1:14:39] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[1:14:40] » It's just I think it's a money grab through SPC.

[1:14:44] » I think you're right. And at at some point to your point, Sherry Sheree, is

[1:14:48] that uh people will be like, why what's what's the point, you know, why get

[1:14:52] involved? Because it's too expensive. >> We got we got a rabies outbreak up in

[1:14:55] Ed. >> Yes. I've seen Yeah. Somebody was bit

[1:14:57] by. >> I've read somewhere it's been several

[1:15:00] now. >> Yeah. Yeah. The only thing if we don't

[1:15:04] sign it, they kind of have you over a barrel. If you don't sign it, they won't

[1:15:07] take any of your animals, which which is bad.

[1:15:10] » Can we counter propose at all? >> Maybe we need to get with other.

[1:15:14] » Do you ever talk to Stephen? What's Steven's last name?

[1:15:17] » Martinez. >> Martinez. Do you ever talk to Steven

[1:15:20] Martinez? He's an idiot. >> Maybe we need to get through his

[1:15:24] township. >> All the townships put their foot down

[1:15:28] saying this what we'll do. So we all get together with different townships and

[1:15:32] become a team. >> Yeah. And that's what happened last time

[1:15:35] and then they agreed. Okay. Okay. We'll take them. So, [clears throat]

[1:15:39] » all right. Well, we'll put that on hold. >> Question. Um, I know you guys said

[1:15:45] you're going to put it on hold and investigate a little bit more and maybe

[1:15:48] you have the numbers up there, but it'd be interesting to see on their special

[1:15:52] programs as well, how many of those that they're actually doing and how many of

[1:15:58] » benefit Konaga Township residents, >> right? How is this benefiting Konagago

[1:16:02] Township? >> Yeah,

[1:16:03] » because if not, there is the option that you could look at working with a

[1:16:09] private nonprofit instead.

[1:16:13] one at a time. There's a couple of them out [laughter] there.

[1:16:19] » We looked at them before and no one wanted to help us.

[1:16:23] » I was a couple years ago now. >> I just want to let you like the York

[1:16:28] Revolution. They do the beneficiary this year.

[1:16:34] » So they do have a lot of money coming in from private organizations. Yeah.

[1:16:39] » And when I went in and toured uh when we balked about it last year, uh Northern

[1:16:45] Regional Chief went along in and a bunch of people and uh they kind of have a um

[1:16:52] uh conveyor line that when [clears throat] they spay or neuter uh

[1:16:56] the one and it only takes a couple seconds to do it because the one person

[1:17:02] gives them the anesthesia and they pass them down the table. The next one shaves

[1:17:06] them, pass down the table, next one cuts them open, and then the doctor, it takes

[1:17:11] a like I forget how many she said she did in like in an hour. It was

[1:17:18] unbelievable how many. Then they just send it down and somebody stitches them

[1:17:22] up and gives them the u puts them back in their cage and they're good to go.

[1:17:27] And it takes very little time. It's almost like, you know, an assembly line.

[1:17:32] » Conveyor belt. >> Yeah. It's like a conveyor belt going

[1:17:35] down. [laughter] Okay, we're going to u you ought to go

[1:17:37] in there and tour it sometime and and uh tell Stephen Martinez I sent you.

[1:17:42] » I just to just to follow up on um [laughter] the comment made, I I think

[1:17:48] we should definitely investigate other other opportunities for the township to

[1:17:53] maybe there are other nonprofits that we should welcome into the township. I

[1:17:58] mean, I mean, maybe you've done we've done research before, but let's let's

[1:18:02] take another look. >> Well, and when Shannon was here, uh, she

[1:18:05] asked them for a detailed list of how many dogs we got and how many cats it

[1:18:10] came out of Connival Township, and they said, "Oh, if we do that for everybody,

[1:18:16] we're going to hire more people. It's going to cost more money." And they they

[1:18:19] wouldn't give it to us. >> So, I don't know if you could do it

[1:18:22] right to know on a nonprofit like that. I don't know.

[1:18:26] » You you check that out. I think that's on the planning.

[1:18:28] » I'll just play a field trip. >> The planning department that's a zoning

[1:18:32] that's a zoning issue. Yeah, the zoning on the zoning board a little bit.

[1:18:36] » Okay, you get on that, Sherry. All right. Uh, so we're going to just table

[1:18:40] that. Okay.

[1:18:45] » All right. The next one, uh, brush truck for Strtown Fire Company.

[1:18:49] » Yep. Okay, I'll take this. Um, I'm the liaison for Strtown Fire

[1:18:55] Company. Um, I also sit as an officer on there. I'm a I'm the chief engineer,

[1:19:00] which I'm in charge of all the the equipment. Um, our brush truck failed

[1:19:06] inspection. It's a 1997 Ford. I think it's a 450. Yeah, right there it is.

[1:19:12] Actually, that that failed inspection here. It's 30 years old. Um, it has low

[1:19:18] miles on, but we right now it's out of service uh because it won't pass

[1:19:23] inspection. So, I hate to put money in an old 30-y old truck. I just can't see

[1:19:30] putting money into it. Um, so I Let me just go down through some

[1:19:35] numbers here. What what we're looking at here. We're 100% volunteer. Last year

[1:19:41] for 2025, we ran 459 calls. And then I I'll just go down through the

[1:19:47] list of equipment here of what year it is, how old it is. Engine 261 is a 2023,

[1:19:53] which is our newest piece. Engine 262 is a 2003.

[1:19:58] Engine 263 is a 1991. Engine 264 is a 2001. [clears throat]

[1:20:05] Our rescue is a 2006, which was donated by ES3.

[1:20:11] Um, our tanker is a 1999. Our brush truck is a 1997.

[1:20:18] The chief's truck is a 2024 and our traffic unit is a 2017.

[1:20:26] Now, we do take in we do take in the fire tax which is including everyone's

[1:20:31] [clears throat] taxes for their property. Last year, we took in on the

[1:20:35] fire tax was 181,000 in fire tax. In 2025, our expenses were all but

[1:20:42] 226,000. So, we're we're we have a shortfall of

[1:20:47] roughly 44,000 a year that we have to raise.

[1:20:51] Now, we do get state relief money which comes to the township and which gets

[1:20:56] then transferred directly to the fire company. Um that was 65,000

[1:21:02] last year and that varies. One year it'll be 50ome,000, the next year it'll

[1:21:07] be more. and and that that that is outofstate insurance money that it comes

[1:21:12] back to the and they distribute that to the the fire companies within

[1:21:16] Pennsylvania. So, you never know exactly what you're getting there. That money

[1:21:20] has to be used for um safety safety of firefighters is what

[1:21:27] it has to be used for. Um you know, equipment certain things equipment wise

[1:21:31] on the trucks. Uh we can't use it for a building. We can't use it for a truck.

[1:21:37] We can't use it for anything else. Um, our chicken barbecues,

[1:21:43] we're if if the ones we do there now, I mean, it's a whole day. You got a whole

[1:21:49] I don't know how how many people help with that, Darl? Do you know? And 15

[1:21:53] » of the members. >> Yeah, probably 15, 20, 25 members help

[1:21:56] with that. That's a whole day. We make like $2,000 on that.

[1:22:00] » How many do you have a year? >> Uh, typically two.

[1:22:04] » How many do you have this year? >> We had one already. We have another one.

[1:22:07] We have another one scheduled. We actually have a shrimp feed um that you

[1:22:11] had to buy tickets for that is actually in like two weeks. So, we are we are

[1:22:15] doing fundraisers, but we we are trying to raise money

[1:22:20] ourselves as far as that. But my gosh, it it for $2,000 for a whole day's work

[1:22:25] for 20 people, it's just not worth it. We might as well each donate a hundred

[1:22:28] bucks and stay home. Uh but it it's uh so I I'm I'm coming to the township to

[1:22:36] ask if the township would consider buying either a brush truck or a mini

[1:22:41] pumper for the fire company and that and that serves our whole community here and

[1:22:46] and actually surrounding community. We get called out to Manchester, York

[1:22:50] Haven. Uh we we get called all over the place that we respond to which if we

[1:22:55] need help, everybody comes in. I when we had that field fire down there at Rex

[1:23:00] Roth, there was [clears throat] there was I I think I remember seeing a

[1:23:03] Maryland fire company there with a brush truck because we needed brush trucks.

[1:23:06] There was there was fire companies from everywhere. Uh

[1:23:10] plus we had we had we had two or three of our engines there plus our brush

[1:23:14] truck. But uh the the brush truck is a vital piece for us because it we have a

[1:23:21] lot of mountain area. We do have a lot of areas that we can't get an engine in.

[1:23:26] uh whether it's trees that overhang driveways, whether the driveways are too

[1:23:30] steep, um someplace we got to cross a culvert and we can't get our we don't

[1:23:35] want to take a you know a million and a half dollar engine in there just because

[1:23:39] we're afraid we're going to end up in the culvert. Uh,

[1:23:43] so I I'm I'm requesting through the fire company. Basically, I'm

[1:23:48] I'm initiating this to see if the township would would help us or or even

[1:23:55] or even pay for an either a fresh truck or or a I I personally would like to see

[1:24:02] a mini pumper. A mini pumper is about $100,000 more. Um, if we in my, this is

[1:24:10] only my opinion now, if we were able to get a mini pumper,

[1:24:13] » I could see us selling our 1991 engine 3 and get that out of service. Get sell

[1:24:19] it. Um, engine two would become a a reserve engine. And we would probably

[1:24:25] respond out of station two here with a mini pumper. Um, which typically the

[1:24:32] mini pumper is is going to get to the our mountain areas first.

[1:24:36] Uh and and it could be utilized as a brush truck as well. Um they're

[1:24:42] four-wheel drive. They're half the size of an engine. Um they carry typically

[1:24:48] around 300 gallons of water where an engine will carry, you know, 6 to 800

[1:24:53] gallons of water. Um but you can at least get a quick response on a whether

[1:25:00] it's a house fire, car fire. Uh, >> so yeah, that that's kind of where I'm

[1:25:06] at. >> My question to you, what benefits what

[1:25:09] benefits Kanago more? >> Well, and and this is my personal

[1:25:13] opinion, but I I think I think a a mini pumper would would serve it would be a

[1:25:19] it would be a first piece out of the station where a brush truck, you know,

[1:25:26] is only going to come out when we have a field fire, when we have mountain fire.

[1:25:31] Um, this is the price for a mini pumper. >> Okay. What's the price for a uh brush

[1:25:38] truck? >> For a brush truck, you're around 300,000

[1:25:40] for a brush truck. Uh, a mini pumper is is just under 400,000. Now, that's

[1:25:46] that's no equipment on it. No hose, no nothing,

[1:25:49] » but you could use your state money for that.

[1:25:52] » No, you can't use state you can't use relief money for equipment. Not Not for

[1:25:56] an engine. Am I right in that? >> Okay. Yeah, you can't you can't use

[1:26:00] relief money for it. >> Use that relief money to buy the stuff

[1:26:03] that we >> you can use some but that relief money

[1:26:06] goes typically that goes to to buy stuff for the current equipment.

[1:26:11] » Okay. >> Not to I mean we we could cover you know

[1:26:14] some hose and stuff like that. >> So could we go to some of these

[1:26:17] businesses in the township and ask for donations?

[1:26:21] » We we tried we've tried that. >> We do that every year. We bag and we bag

[1:26:26] and we bag. >> Yeah. They just don't cooperate.

[1:26:29] » Now, see, we did we did I came up with this when we were putting

[1:26:33] these warehouses in. I asked for the warehouses to pay [snorts] so much per

[1:26:37] square foot to donate to the fire company. And those funds are set aside

[1:26:42] for a a truck fund. I don't And we only have it's

[1:26:47] » it's under 200,000. It's under 200,000 in that truck fund, but that that truck

[1:26:52] fund I would like to keep for some of our other aging equipment like like the

[1:26:57] engine that sits back here. It's a 2003 uh you know that's already 23 years old

[1:27:03] but 24 years old. >> Did you guys apply for any of the uh

[1:27:07] state capital grants through >> that comes up we apply for?

[1:27:12] » So did you not you weren't successful in getting those?

[1:27:15] » Uh we get we get grants. We do. We just got one. Uh, and they're and they're all

[1:27:18] specific like we just got one. We put a an exhaust system in in you know like

[1:27:23] when you start a truck up in the shop or in the in the uh station there. We have

[1:27:28] an exhaust system now [clears throat] that every piece hooks to that when you

[1:27:32] start that when you pull out it automatically disconnects that you know

[1:27:36] you're not breathing the fumes in. >> Right.

[1:27:38] » Um uh let's see. I forget what the other

[1:27:41] » What about the uh fundraiser that you send out the papers? We we do get

[1:27:46] » How much do you get? >> We do get from that.

[1:27:49] » I'm I'm not sure what that that number is. I don't have that right.

[1:27:52] » I think she reported like 14 something. >> 14,000. Yeah.

[1:27:56] » It's time for you guys to hit the roads with boots.

[1:27:58] » What's that? >> It's time to hit the corners with the

[1:28:00] boots. [laughter] >> Well,

[1:28:02] » we need volunteers. >> Yeah, we need we need volunteers, too.

[1:28:05] So, that that's the other thing. If >> go to the high school and get the high

[1:28:08] school kids who have to put in volunteer hours.

[1:28:10] » Well, they got to be 18. I'm talking firefighters. They got to be 18 to

[1:28:15] » talking. You could get the high schoolers have to put in volunteer

[1:28:19] hours. >> Give them a boo.

[1:28:21] » Yeah. One of the things I I will say uh Loretta and I went to a um uh went to a

[1:28:27] uh York County uh PATS convention. Was it 2024

[1:28:33] » or 25? Where was last year or the year before?

[1:28:36] » 24. the the volunteer fire departments that

[1:28:40] are in Pennsylvania are under extreme strain right now and that that in 2024

[1:28:47] we were tipped off that >> eventually it's going to uh we're going

[1:28:52] to hit a cliff and it'll move to a >> more of a paid type of environment

[1:28:57] because they're on average some of the fire companies have uh volunteers that

[1:29:02] are in their 70s and 80s and you know that's just it's not what it was. And

[1:29:08] with that, the the support of those fire departments are is lacking. And I always

[1:29:14] say this, you don't need them until you need them. And then all of a sudden, you

[1:29:18] would have, could have, should have. And then, you know, that doesn't help, you

[1:29:22] know, the community. So, um, >> well, the beginning of last year, I did

[1:29:26] reach out to Yafer, which is our local fire department here, uh, that is a paid

[1:29:31] fire department, >> just to get some numbers to know what

[1:29:34] what we were looking at if we would ever have to go that route. Uh, it was it was

[1:29:39] like $1.3 million and that that only gave you two guys for 40 hours a week.

[1:29:44] Um, and that was Yeah, that I mean that that's what we're

[1:29:48] » Well, you have full coverage, though. It's not like they'd work 40 hours, go

[1:29:52] home, and you wouldn't have covered. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. They're not here.

[1:29:54] They're They're here 40 hours a week. That's it. And that was two That was two

[1:29:57] guys. Now, if you had That wasn't full coverage. That wasn't full coverage.

[1:30:03] » Uh, >> I think we'd have to research it. I I

[1:30:06] just >> so with our big our big companies like

[1:30:09] Carvana who is sitting here as a multi-million dollar company in our

[1:30:13] community. Do they not donate or support our local fire department even though we

[1:30:17] are the ones who respond to their fires? >> They also well they they also pay the

[1:30:21] fire tax which which whatever their property is valued at, they're going to

[1:30:24] pay, you know, >> a proportionate amount.

[1:30:27] » Yeah, it it is. >> But where does the fire tax go?

[1:30:30] » Where does the fire >> Does it directly go to you?

[1:30:32] » That goes directly to the fire company. Yeah.

[1:30:34] » Okay. >> Yeah.

[1:30:34] » Yeah. Um, >> which for last year was

[1:30:38] » 18181,000 last year.

[1:30:40] » So, do we have the option to raise our fire tax?

[1:30:43] » We do. >> We do.

[1:30:44] » We do, but I I I don't want to do that. Like right now, the township has money

[1:30:49] in reserves >> that it's it's your tax dollars anyway.

[1:30:53] » So, so rather than raise that fire tax, the township has it in reserves now. So,

[1:30:59] I I'm asking the township to pull that from reserves, give it to the fire

[1:31:03] company to buy this piece up up to this point to buy that engine or or brush

[1:31:07] truck or whatever we decide. >> Uh, and and not raise the fire tax. You

[1:31:13] know, I'm not one to raise fire any any tax. I don't I don't like raising any

[1:31:16] taxes. If we can work within our means, that's what we're going to do. I

[1:31:20] understand that. But we have some really big multi-million dollar companies.

[1:31:23] [laughter] They have a lot of square foot

[1:31:27] » and that's what happened when ES3 came in.

[1:31:29] » Yeah. >> Yeah. They Yeah. They donated

[1:31:31] » donated the engine which was a couple hundred thousand.

[1:31:35] » Yeah. Well, our new engine was was all but a million bucks for the new engine.

[1:31:40] But, you know, you look at like, who has the biggest I don't say biggest benefit,

[1:31:44] but you know, they >> Well, I can tell you I I don't know that

[1:31:49] I've ever been to a call at Carvana. >> Yeah.

[1:31:52] » Ever, >> right?

[1:31:53] » You know, even when it was paid, I I I don't think I've ever been there on a

[1:31:56] call. It's typically a residence >> or or an accident somewhere. Now,

[1:32:02] granted, ES3, we we're there quite often. Now, they we bill them, though.

[1:32:07] We build them. Well, usually that's a false alarm.

[1:32:10] » It is. It's typically a false alarm, >> but they're build for that.

[1:32:13] » Yeah, but we're getting up at 2 o'clock in the morning to go to a false alarm.

[1:32:15] » Absolutely. >> And it's not it's not a lot.

[1:32:18] » No, it's not much. Do you remember how much that is, Darl? That we

[1:32:22] » the highest amount we ever made. >> Yeah, but per per call though.

[1:32:26] » Oh, it it they're allowed three and then charge after

[1:32:30] » and then we charge and I want to Is it 250?

[1:32:34] » Is it >> after that? It's 250 or 300 something.

[1:32:36] Yeah, they get three three per year and then after that it's so much per per

[1:32:41] false alarm. >> It would just go, you know, if the

[1:32:45] community knew that >> places like that were supporting our

[1:32:49] fire department >> and they do they like we'll get they

[1:32:52] they'll donate plets of water to us. They they'll do that kind of stuff. Now

[1:32:56] granted, they're not donating a fire truck, but

[1:33:00] » I say the marketing just because of all the fundraising I've done for other

[1:33:03] organizations could really go a long way towards community support,

[1:33:07] » right, >> of having 500 trucks go past someone's

[1:33:11] house when they see that there's at least some community investment. Yeah.

[1:33:14] » Towards that goodwill. Not saying we can require it.

[1:33:17] » Yeah, >> I know we can't, right?

[1:33:18] » But that community goodwill goes a long way when the community knows it happens.

[1:33:23] Well, and I don't know how long ago it's been um that this um

[1:33:29] » for warehouses that for sings went in, but a lot of those were 100,000.

[1:33:35] » Uh no, I don't most of them were around 50. Like we had I know we had two one

[1:33:39] time and and that was that was 100,000 at one time, but we only have we only

[1:33:43] have like 200,000 in the truck fund. Uh, now granted, some of that may have been

[1:33:48] used when we bought the new truck, but now that that truck's not paid for that

[1:33:52] truck, we have a payment on that truck every month.

[1:33:55] » When was the last time that the actual like service fees have been reviewed and

[1:33:59] kind of comped out at the other fire departments across the area?

[1:34:03] » Service fees for what? >> Like when do you get those callout fees?

[1:34:06] What is, I don't know, handover township charging when they get called out to the

[1:34:11] X factory? >> Right. Right. Yeah. That that

[1:34:13] » When's the last time your fee structure updated as well as something.

[1:34:17] » Well, and like I said, most of it's >> the false calls is not where we're

[1:34:22] really headed with this is. I mean, it's the call volume in general. U you know,

[1:34:26] at 459 calls last year, it's you know, over a call a day. Now, granted,

[1:34:32] » we I've I've been on calls where we had four calls in one day and then you don't

[1:34:35] have anything for a week. Uh and it seemed to all always come in at like

[1:34:39] midnight or 2 o'clock, >> of course. And on a Saturday.

[1:34:42] » Yeah. Yeah. When you But uh when you go to different municipalities like Hanover

[1:34:47] or whatever, that's that's just a mutual >> it's mutual aid.

[1:34:51] » Basic. [laughter]

[1:34:54] » So I don't know if there's actually a fee schedule involved in that. No.

[1:34:57] » No, no, no. She's talking about asking the other count what they charge to go

[1:35:00] to a call like that. That is not >> I think the bottom line [clears throat]

[1:35:03] is we need the truck. >> Well, and Okay.

[1:35:06] » Talking about Yafer. I I just listened to something that was online with them.

[1:35:10] They recorded a meeting that was with some supervisors and whatnot and they

[1:35:14] there was a couple supervisors that were upset I just just by listening to what I

[1:35:17] did there. They raised their fire budget 10% every year for the last five years.

[1:35:23] So that's 50% fire. They raised their fire budget. Um and I know there's been

[1:35:28] a lot of concern with them. They only have two people on each piece of

[1:35:32] equipment and they want three. That's the state average is supposed to be

[1:35:36] three. So they're they're they're asking for this increase in budget to try to

[1:35:41] get more manpower on each on each piece. Now with us being volunteers,

[1:35:46] » there's times Daryl will go out by himself. I go out by myself most of the

[1:35:49] time. Uh granted, when we get there, we're hoping somebody else is there, you

[1:35:52] know, to help. Uh but uh but I I really think I mean, is anyone opposed? I'll

[1:36:01] ask the public here. You guys are the taxpayers. Would you be opposed to the

[1:36:05] township purchasing a a $400,000 mini pumper?

[1:36:13] » What is in the township reserve and what is the reserve for mentally?

[1:36:20] want to answer that for? >> Well, we we have a pretty good reserve

[1:36:23] because we're really responsible in in our spending and uh we have I'm not

[1:36:30] quite sure. It's a couple million dollars that we do have in there. So,

[1:36:34] » well, and what what's the state the state tells you to have?

[1:36:37] » You should have two years two years of uh operating budget and what is ours?

[1:36:42] Three three million a year. >> A little over three million a year. So,

[1:36:48] we really should have six, seven million in the reserve and u

[1:36:53] » and I think that's where we're at. >> Yeah. But, um I have a couple questions

[1:36:57] since you asked since you asked my opinion.

[1:36:59] » I I do. >> Okay. Uh one question is, um let me go

[1:37:05] back here and read this stuff. What's wrong with the truck that it won't pass

[1:37:09] inspection? Is it something major or is it does it need a new exhaust system?

[1:37:13] » No, no, no. It's it's the the whole back of the bed is is is rusting out and it's

[1:37:19] it's where it's structural. >> Okay.

[1:37:21] » I just don't want to see us put, you know, $20,000 in a 30-y old truck is the

[1:37:26] reason. >> Yep. I can see that. Um because

[1:37:29] sometimes the maintenance just overwhelms it. It, you know, you just

[1:37:33] got to keep it, keep it, pour money into it. Yeah.

[1:37:35] » So, yeah, I agree. Um would you get money for this?

[1:37:39] » Yeah, we would. Yeah. And that would that would go back into

[1:37:42] » Okay. And then if you also uh would sell your white engine. Yep. You'd get money

[1:37:47] for that. >> You don't get a lot. I mean, we'd be

[1:37:49] lucky to get probably $15,000 for engine$39.

[1:37:53] » Maybe not even that. Yeah, we'd be lucky to get that, you know. And that wouldn't

[1:37:56] even that wouldn't even buy the hose to put on a new truck.

[1:37:59] » Okay. >> That that stuff is outrageously priced.

[1:38:02] Even trucks are outrageously priced right now. Everything is overpriced.

[1:38:06] » Okay. And uh one other comment. Okay. And you might not like this. Excuse me.

[1:38:12] I got thick skin. >> Ready?

[1:38:14] » Okay. I'm a leazison with Northern Regional.

[1:38:18] » Yeah. >> Every month I give a report on Northern

[1:38:20] Regional. Every month Northern Regionals's here. Where's the fire

[1:38:24] company? Until they want their hand out. >> No,

[1:38:27] » no. I'm saying other municipalities I go to, they have the fire chief there and

[1:38:33] they give a report. I don't remember ever seeing a fire chief here.

[1:38:37] » I don't even know who the fire chief is right now.

[1:38:39] » That's okay. or US Leazi, you should give it now. Right now,

[1:38:44] » I can give a report if you'd like it, but

[1:38:46] » I think you should. >> The problem is, okay, we have our we

[1:38:48] have our meeting tonight. It would be a month late because because ours is too.

[1:38:53] » Our meeting Yeah. But our meeting is not until next week,

[1:38:55] » right? >> So, it Northern Regional isn't

[1:38:59] » isn't until the third week. >> Okay.

[1:39:01] » So, we're always a month behind. >> Okay.

[1:39:03] » So, I think you I'll get to you now. Sorry. Yeah, I can I can give a monthly,

[1:39:07] » but I think like right now we had no idea how many calls you had.

[1:39:12] » Yeah. >> So,

[1:39:14] » if we knew how much you worked and you know how many people responded to calls

[1:39:19] and everything, I think it would help us a lot.

[1:39:21] » It would. Yeah. >> Um, and what about grants? Are you that

[1:39:28] you're not getting grants? Are you not writing them correctly? We we try every

[1:39:32] time there's a grant out like right now we're we're applying for one in

[1:39:35] September here. >> We have a structural issue with our

[1:39:37] station. So we're applying for a grant, you know, for that.

[1:39:40] » But I'm thinking what if we would hire a grant writer?

[1:39:44] » We have one that we hire. >> Oh, yeah. We have one that we've had.

[1:39:47] » Okay. >> Yeah. And he's he's been very good for

[1:39:49] us, too. >> Is it good?

[1:39:50] » Yes. >> Okay. Darl, you had a question. Well,

[1:39:53] I'd like to remind you that when I sat on the board as the supervisor beside

[1:39:59] you, Loretta, >> we were giving you quarterly fair

[1:40:03] reports. >> Yes.

[1:40:05] » So, you have senior reports. >> Oh, yeah.

[1:40:08] » All you need to do is ask. >> Yeah.

[1:40:10] » You know, >> okay. All right. I'm asking for reports.

[1:40:13] » I'll I'll make a [laughter] report. I'll bore you with a report.

[1:40:18] And actually those reports were all handwritten on a ledger by um by Mr.

[1:40:24] Hikes. He he did all this. >> No, no, that was after it was after Ray.

[1:40:28] » Oh, was it? >> I was on the board of supervisor after

[1:40:31] Ray retired. >> And I think that's important to give us

[1:40:34] a little report on of what they do. >> I can do that.

[1:40:36] » Now, as far as uh the money here, um I'm not in favor of 100%.

[1:40:44] I would be in favor of the 300. What do you guys say? And then, you know, if

[1:40:48] you're going to get money for the truck, this truck, that truck, and uh you have

[1:40:52] 200 in there, I think you need to have a little bit of skin in the game to say.

[1:41:00] » So, I think 300, you do what you want. If you want this one or if you want the

[1:41:05] brush truck, whatever you want. >> Well, I'm

[1:41:08] » What's your thoughts? >> I'm afraid, okay, if we say, "All right,

[1:41:11] we're going to do the 300." Well, then they're going to settle for a brush

[1:41:14] truck. And I'm just talking out loud here as as as a engineer, but

[1:41:20] » they'll we they're saving that money for an engine, not not a smaller piece.

[1:41:26] » But the thing is, when you do get a big engine, you're going to come back to us.

[1:41:30] » Uh we did in the land. We didn't in 2023. We didn't

[1:41:33] » Yeah. >> You know, we did that on our own in

[1:41:35] 2023. We did that on our own. >> Did you get grants for that? Uh two well

[1:41:41] a lot of it% no interest loan% state grant or state loan 2% state loan.

[1:41:47] » Yeah. Yeah. A low interest loan. Uh you know I I I think with the volunteers

[1:41:54] that we have I think we have enough skin in the game, you know, with putting our

[1:41:58] time in. >> I I have here's where I I sit. I there's

[1:42:04] I have a lot of respect for first responders and I've seen it all too

[1:42:09] happen where you know we we look at the dollar amount and it's important that we

[1:42:15] do and there's a lot of things that you know financially responsible we need to

[1:42:19] make sure but then you know if we step over a dollar to to save a dime and uh

[1:42:26] you know it'll come back and bite us. It's I I've seen it happen. Um and

[1:42:33] you know, these guys put their lives on the line, you know, and they're out

[1:42:38] there uh all the time. I see them, you know, and I think all of us see them.

[1:42:42] And I don't necessarily feel that, you know, we're talking $80,000 that they

[1:42:48] it's a it's a a truck that we need for the community and one of us could be our

[1:42:54] house could be saved or our or one of our children or whatever and it you

[1:42:59] can't put a price on that. So, um for me, I'm invoked uh to pay for the whole

[1:43:05] thing and that's >> Are you going to make that motion? I'll

[1:43:08] make the motion to pay for the pumper at $379,000.

[1:43:12] » And I suppose you're going to abstain. >> I just I asked Steve that and he said I

[1:43:17] I don't have to because I'm the liaison for the fire company and now I presented

[1:43:20] the case. Would you all like me to abstain or

[1:43:23] » Well, we'll leave you abstain and I'll second the motion.

[1:43:26] » Oh, >> so all in favor [laughter]

[1:43:29] I'll save you the grief. I'll save you the grief.

[1:43:33] » I think you're scared. I I I appreciate that. And

[1:43:38] » how just out of curiosity, how are you going to vote?

[1:43:41] » Well, I'm in favor. [laughter] It doesn't benefit me. It it benefits the

[1:43:45] community. >> Okay. All in favor say I.

[1:43:47] » I. >> I. And one of.

[1:43:50] » All right. Thank you. >> So, here's the thing. When that fire

[1:43:52] truck does pull in, I think you should plan something with the community. Yep.

[1:43:57] » And bring it out because if you want the community support, this is how you're

[1:44:00] going to >> We do open house here. Well, you have

[1:44:02] fire week, too. Fire week at the school when you get that truck.

[1:44:07] » I think I think so. Brian's going to break a bottle of champagne across.

[1:44:12] [laughter] >> I don't have to take it back.

[1:44:16] » And we are we are trying to come up with ways to to try to motivate some of the

[1:44:21] community to get involved. >> Well, I'm going tell you, I came down

[1:44:23] and got the application. >> Yeah.

[1:44:25] » To fill out to come down to volunteer. I went down. There were several of us. You

[1:44:30] were with me also, right? I mean, I already have clearances

[1:44:34] through the Woo. >> Yeah.

[1:44:35] » Okay. But yet, they were asking for another one, and I get there are ways,

[1:44:39] but like, >> well, we have to by law,

[1:44:41] » but my clearances should cover that. I have five different clearances.

[1:44:45] » Yeah. >> I mean, I'm through the federal whatever

[1:44:47] you can think of, but it's not a like I >> But we need we need firefighters, too.

[1:44:53] » I'm not doing that for [laughter] That's what we need. We need

[1:44:57] firefighters. saying like when you do your chicken stuff, you know, I would

[1:45:03] not mind coming down to help out. >> Yeah. And then they you can apply for

[1:45:08] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[1:45:09] » for social member. >> Social member. Yeah. Social members do

[1:45:13] that. >> Well, thank you. I want to thank you on

[1:45:15] behalf of the fire company. >> Just bring two bottles of champagne. One

[1:45:18] to break on the bow and one for us. [laughter]

[1:45:21] » Right, John? >> Amen. Well, thank thank you.

[1:45:23] » He's gonna have nightmares for a little while.

[1:45:24] » Yeah. Okay. uh property man uh maintenance ordinance moving forward. Uh

[1:45:32] you had something. >> Thank you. Um

[1:45:35] » Steve jumped in ahead and he and I talked about this. Um we have we have

[1:45:40] ordinances that are very old and I just kind of gave a summary of of just a few

[1:45:44] of the ones that we we look to on a regular basis. Um ordinance 117

[1:45:49] accumulation of waste was adopted 1972. um junk and junkyards was adopted in 72.

[1:45:55] Nuisance ordinance was adopted in '84 and we amended it in 97. And then the

[1:46:01] the grass and weeds ordinance was adopted in 2008. And each one's a

[1:46:05] separate ordinance. Each one has separate rules and regulations around

[1:46:09] it. And what we'd like to do, and I'm coming to you guys just to get

[1:46:13] authorization for staff to move forward, uh work with work with our attorney,

[1:46:18] work with our engineers needed to kind of combine all these into a property

[1:46:23] maintenance ordinance. Um the IPMC, uh the International Property Maintenance

[1:46:29] Code is out there. A lot of municipalities use it. I don't think

[1:46:32] it's right for us. I think that that that works well in a more urbanized or

[1:46:36] suburban township, but I think there's stuff in

[1:46:40] there and there's stuff in our current ordinances that we could utilize and

[1:46:44] massage, clean up, >> um bring up into modern language, uh

[1:46:49] work with our attorney to make sure that we're, you know, the enforcement piece

[1:46:52] is correct, the the how we apply is correct, and [clears throat]

[1:46:56] develop one single ordinance that would be able to pull all this stuff together.

[1:46:59] Um I think it's worth the time and effort to do this. Um, okay. So, uh, one

[1:47:05] of the things I want to talk about is, um, because we've had a lot of

[1:47:09] complaints lately with some of the the junk that people are collecting.

[1:47:14] » So, one of the things I would ask, and you know, I don't know if solicitor will

[1:47:19] agree, but definitely make stiffer fines uh, within these uh, ordinances or I

[1:47:24] guess up to the max that the state will allow. But then, can we also potentially

[1:47:29] condemn a property um, if they In other words, they run the risk of the township

[1:47:35] or us going to the port system and condemning their property and they lose

[1:47:39] their property because they're not able to maintain.

[1:47:41] » But then where would it go? Would it be ours? And we certainly don't want that.

[1:47:46] » So, well, I'm trying to I'm thinking of something has teeth because right now

[1:47:50] right now, >> you know, we we we go up people letters.

[1:47:53] It takes what? Forever to get anybody to move anything. Okay. So, so a couple

[1:47:58] things like I don't think I mean we can look at the the the fines but the fines

[1:48:03] aren't really our biggest issue because most of them are structured so that

[1:48:09] every day is a continuing violation. Yeah.

[1:48:11] » Right. Like so I mean if you're if you've got junk in your yard

[1:48:16] for a month, you know, you're looking at a $3,000 fine,

[1:48:19] » right? That's I mean it's not it's not that there isn't teeth there. It's more

[1:48:24] sometimes the language of how we define something where it's outdated or you

[1:48:29] have like gaps between some of our ordinances where okay some things fit

[1:48:33] here and some things fit here but then there's this kind of

[1:48:36] » space in between where we you know we need different language or broader

[1:48:39] language or more specific language and I'm just saying like you know enough

[1:48:43] things have changed >> that's where it is now we can certainly

[1:48:46] look at the at the way we structure some of the fines I don't think that's really

[1:48:50] the problem it's it's more the language of it And in terms of like condemnation,

[1:48:56] you know, you can't just use condemnation because somebody's got some

[1:48:58] junk. I mean, you know, there's there's pretty clear definitions of what I mean,

[1:49:03] we could condemn somebody's property if it's, you know, a hazard or it's, you

[1:49:09] know, structurally not sound, but you're not going to use condemnation just

[1:49:12] because somebody's not complying with, you know, an everyday ordinance. My

[1:49:16] point I'm making is that there's whether it's that or something else that gets

[1:49:23] the person to sit up and be like, "Oh, and pay attention."

[1:49:26] » Yeah. Like, "Hey, it's not just about the money. I may I may not be able to

[1:49:30] live here anymore or something." You know?

[1:49:32] » Let me let me tell you. I mean, >> if you hit somebody with a 3,000 or

[1:49:37] 6,000 or $9,000 citation, you're going to get their

[1:49:42] attention. I mean, our our our fines are are

[1:49:46] comparable to I mean I've solicitor for a number of places and and you know we

[1:49:49] represent a number of counties I don't I don't think our binds are out of line

[1:49:53] like if you if we want to enforce them we can do that

[1:49:57] » but but it's more like when we appear before the MDJ and then it has to be

[1:50:02] » is what we're citing for exactly what is prohibited by an ordinance if the

[1:50:08] language isn't right and that's I think where Mark and I have looked at this a

[1:50:12] number of times and thought okay you know like some of the ones that he's

[1:50:15] he's talking about where there's these cars. Okay. Well, what if somebody has,

[1:50:20] you know, only one car but then they have this and then they have that or

[1:50:24] what if it's, you know, what if it's in this condition and then it's like, okay,

[1:50:28] well, we didn't exactly prohibit that. So, I think that's that's where we kind

[1:50:31] of want to take a look, use some of the experiences that we've had over the

[1:50:35] years, look at what other townships have done, look at whether, you know,

[1:50:38] municipalities have done, you know, and and update some stuff. I think fines are

[1:50:43] fine, but if we could I mean if we could also look at a punishment as well, maybe

[1:50:47] you know some type of I mean I I just I just feel that some people just blow

[1:50:52] them off or or I if you know there's 30 days in prison or I don't know you're

[1:50:58] not you're not you're not getting that for an ordinance violation. That's not

[1:51:04] how >> a reprieve for 30 days. Okay.

[1:51:07] » Did you have a question? >> Yeah. You're all in here talking about

[1:51:10] the old cars and this and that and the other thing. I heard you all make a

[1:51:13] motion made a thing a while back. You walk the road

[1:51:18] you don't walk ground. I mean already the road all jacked up

[1:51:22] beautiful black top the runoff can't get in the culvers. Back in the day, we had

[1:51:27] a record green. They have half the problem. And you go up that road, I see

[1:51:32] a couple trees have moved since then, but the better part of six trees on the

[1:51:35] wire and the wires are already hanging down low enough.

[1:51:39] » We can't touch them. >> I understand that,

[1:51:41] » but I just heard something about getting Med or somebody coming.

[1:51:44] » Yeah, Mark, you were working with them and you did get some of them down on

[1:51:48] » Med's pretty responsive, but Verizon, the telephone company, no way. They

[1:51:52] won't come until it falls down. Like I had a landline and I had to get rid of

[1:51:55] it because they're too lazy to take care of this stuff. But you go around all the

[1:51:59] blinds and everything in them. >> If they can't accommodate their wires,

[1:52:01] get them the heck out of here. >> We can't. I wish we could. I hear you.

[1:52:05] » Um they they have a right to be here to provide those utilities. The only way

[1:52:10] that that I've had success and we we've seen it recently here is you contact the

[1:52:15] public utility commission and they're the overseeing body of these utilities

[1:52:19] that have the authority to to manage them. So that's that's a little outside

[1:52:23] the purview of what we're talking here, but I

[1:52:26] » but we we do we go through the PUC and we've gotten some some work done through

[1:52:30] them. >> Can you contact them for what he's

[1:52:32] talking about? >> Let me go back to is the

[1:52:34] telecommunications the lines that are usually the ones that are med if if a

[1:52:40] tree comes down on the electric line, they're usually there within hours. Um

[1:52:44] it's the telecommunication companies that just are very slow coming into the

[1:52:48] community. That's so funny. You said he never came back for my service, but yet

[1:52:52] I had to get rid of my land because they told me they will not fix it,

[1:52:55] » right? >> I mean,

[1:52:56] » we have no authority over them. That's what I'm trying to tell you. That's

[1:52:58] that's the that's one of the areas that we we can't I can I can jump up and down

[1:53:02] and scream all day at them. They they'll just hang up the phone. The public

[1:53:06] utility commission is the board that oversees them. They're the ones that

[1:53:09] have the authority to issue fines to them and get them moving. So then when

[1:53:12] that big tree falls off that line that's laying up there around right past 1955

[1:53:16] road falls out and kills somebody then nobody nobody will have the

[1:53:20] responsibility. >> No I I don't know if nobody has

[1:53:22] responsibility. I don't I represent the township we don't have the ability to go

[1:53:26] after them. >> Well let's let's let's take let's heed

[1:53:30] the warning. Right. You brought it to our attention. We got we have to do

[1:53:33] something. We can either ignore it >> trees that's laying there almost

[1:53:36] sticking out on the road. >> Yeah.

[1:53:38] » We go up and we can trim to a certain distance. That's as far as we go.

[1:53:40] » Just like right right around probably the 1500 block. There's a mount of dirt

[1:53:45] that's been mil ever since they black top road. It would be for the other day

[1:53:48] you went through the street for a personal back. It would be out on the

[1:53:51] road yet. >> Yeah.

[1:53:53] » You're all walking the street. >> Yeah. Got it. We know where it is. All

[1:53:57] right. So, let's let's let's get a hold of the public utilities.

[1:53:59] » And I think what uh Steve was talking about uh was enforcement. And in

[1:54:04] previous administrations, a lot of that wasn't enforced. But now you're going

[1:54:10] through a lot and sending a lot of letters out.

[1:54:13] » Yeah, we are. And we're we're seeing some response. We're getting we're

[1:54:16] talking to people and we approach it from the the fact that we send them a

[1:54:20] letter saying, "Are you aware? This is the law. This is what you have to do

[1:54:23] work with us." And if they don't work with us, then we send out a notice of

[1:54:26] violation, which then is the legal tool that we have to give them a set amount

[1:54:30] of time. If they fail to comply with the notice of violation, then we issue a

[1:54:34] citation. And then citation like Steve was saying has to then go before the

[1:54:38] medial district justice >> and they have the full power and

[1:54:42] authority to decide at that point is it have we met the conditions in our

[1:54:47] ordinances are they going to fight us on it and two then what level of fine will

[1:54:51] be assessed up to the state max. So that's that's the whole process. It's

[1:54:55] never quick. We can't say hey you know you have junk cars in your in your

[1:55:00] property move them in three days. It it takes months unfortunately. So, you

[1:55:04] brought up about getting a fire report. Would it I think it would be really

[1:55:09] beneficial for the community to also get that in the zoning report or wherever

[1:55:13] that fits that hey this month we've issued 15 zoning violations or you know

[1:55:19] like a status because you know we hear that things are happening but without

[1:55:23] that type of numbers it's hard to be like okay great junk cars are still

[1:55:28] there or you know yeah >> this this and that's still there. Not

[1:55:31] I'm not saying put everyone's business out there.

[1:55:34] » So we >> but at least just like numbers.

[1:55:36] » Good timing. I talked to to Becky about that today and that'll be in the next

[1:55:39] month's report. We've already discussed that.

[1:55:41] » Oh, okay. [clears throat] >> Day late in the dollar store.

[1:55:44] » Oh no. [laughter] >> No, it's a good point though and I

[1:55:47] » I agree and that's why we want to get that in there so you guys can see that

[1:55:50] we you know sent out this many zoning notices, this many notice violations,

[1:55:53] etc. That'll all be in next months. We'll get that. If there's any reports

[1:55:56] or uh any information that you would like on a regular basis, just let us

[1:56:00] know. If we can accommodate, we will, you know, but we don't want to be

[1:56:03] overburdened, you know, but we'll send it to the zoning and they can work on

[1:56:08] it. >> Okay. Are you guys good? I don't need a

[1:56:12] motion or anything, but you guys good that we move forward and get this stuff

[1:56:14] start getting these things cleaned up >> to authorize you to do the property.

[1:56:18] » If you guys don't. >> Okay. Um, other business, food truck

[1:56:24] Friday is uh this Friday, September the 4th

[1:56:29] » and u we'll still have one October yet. Is that

[1:56:33] » the last one then? So next year you'll see a lot of difference. Uh we are

[1:56:37] working on a memorial up there. I wish we had the overhead of that.

[1:56:41] » Memorial. >> No, not yet.

[1:56:42] » Okay. >> It's a We'll surprise you next month

[1:56:46] with it's really it's really cool. Um, I had one other thing and this is for

[1:56:54] Miss Ripto. It's the story you told us last month

[1:56:58] about Zion View. Zans's View. >> Oh, yeah. I I I did my research.

[1:57:05] » Did you find out why it says New Cumberland?

[1:57:08] » Yes. I um So, here's what I've been working on.

[1:57:11] » Okay. >> So, I kind of like stirred the pot and

[1:57:14] started months ago. I have been working with

[1:57:18] you did. >> I've been working with a old resident of

[1:57:22] Shrintown who she's no longer here in Shrintown. Um I have been researching

[1:57:28] what um has been said that there is a cemetery at the end of a death there. I

[1:57:34] have the proof there is. I have been working with Mark. We did discover in

[1:57:39] looking at old maps that to find Stri you have to go under new Cumberland.

[1:57:45] So originally somewhere down the line and I'm still working on it. Um

[1:57:50] Shrintown was New Cumberland. It was New Pleasant Newland.

[1:57:53] » Okay. Well, what it says here is New Cumberland 14. The 14 means that it's 14

[1:58:00] miles. This is a sign. It's 14 miles from New Cumberland. And on the other

[1:58:06] one that says uh Strinstown, I forget what number that was.

[1:58:12] There was another one out there, but that says 12 miles.

[1:58:16] » Okay. >> So, that has 12. So, I'll give you

[1:58:18] these. >> Oh, cool. I I'm working on it. And John,

[1:58:22] I do have postits on my wall at benails. >> No, no doubt. We don't We don't doubt

[1:58:27] that. >> No, I've got the information that has

[1:58:30] been given to me. When I get it all together, I will bring it in and present

[1:58:35] it to you. The information is actually like it's really shocking.

[1:58:40] and I have been looking at maps. >> Um the things that I have found out that

[1:58:44] they did to this cemetery is unbelievable. And now I'm um I'm working

[1:58:50] on connecting them dots. I'm actually going to the person's house.

[1:58:54] » Um she came out to me and we walked. She told me all about Stringstown. We walked

[1:58:58] it. We wrote it. >> You didn't have a shovel with you, did

[1:59:01] you? >> We used my a shovel. [laughter]

[1:59:04] » Check out the grave. >> No. Well, there is a spot back there

[1:59:08] that actually indentation that is the size of about a grade. Um that

[1:59:15] » Carvana did a study though. Did you talk to him?

[1:59:18] » I did talk to Corey. He left. Um Carvana did attack talk to the Pennsylvania

[1:59:25] Historical Museum Commission and they have no

[1:59:27] » thing over that ground. I'm not >> Yeah, they have no records of it. So,

[1:59:30] » right, there are records. >> Right. And that's that's what we and I

[1:59:34] talked to Brian about it. We've been looking to see, you know, to see if

[1:59:37] there's any historical records. Now, often depending on who's buried there,

[1:59:43] sometimes the records just don't exist. >> I do have a record for a Civil War

[1:59:47] soldier in there. >> And I was also told from a family member

[1:59:50] from Stories from his grandpa that it was actually the Kanago Indians in there

[1:59:55] and the the road that you live on, that family was also in there.

[2:00:00] » Okay. So I do I do have >> actually I didn't want to but I do have

[2:00:07] » Yeah, there were a lot of Whitmers out in Strange Town.

[2:00:09] » I do have written records about the Civil War soldier

[2:00:14] » that was in there. The family was approached and they said they were not

[2:00:17] interested. Um so it's just now I'm just playing with numbers.

[2:00:23] » Um >> Was it moved? Was it moved at some

[2:00:26] point? >> No. So here's what I can tell you. The

[2:00:29] school was built in 1928. The tombstones were moved off of the

[2:00:34] property and dump dumped into the Kobago Creek right at the Boy Scout ramp,

[2:00:40] » the tombstones were dumped into the river.

[2:00:42] » That's terrible. >> And then they just went and built the

[2:00:45] house. So, um, from what I understand from stories from my son-in-law, his

[2:00:51] greatgrandfather was one of the people who demolished the school.

[2:00:55] Um, and he is one of them that found the bones

[2:00:59] » to particularly I've been told that them bones were picked up and transferred and

[2:01:03] re buried into Shrintown Cemetery >> and an unmarked grave.

[2:01:09] » That's what I'm taking for granted is an unmarked grave. Um, I have learned a lot

[2:01:15] about Mount Pleasant Church was actually Mount Pleasant Union Church. It was also

[2:01:19] you it was used by several community churches until They built the brethren

[2:01:26] church and then when they built the brethren church they changed it from

[2:01:29] Mount Pleasant to that. >> Yeah. Yeah. It was Mount Pleasant and

[2:01:33] then even where I live >> where I live it was called Mount

[2:01:38] Washington. All all the older people know as as Mount Washington. So I used

[2:01:42] to tell everybody I live at the top. >> Your history will show that my

[2:01:45] grandfather >> is he that

[2:01:48] » his name was Hall Baker. He was actually the pastor at Strintown Church and Mount

[2:01:53] Washington Church at the same time. >> That name didn't come as that came up

[2:01:58] » and somebody I will find it. Just give me [laughter]

[2:02:01] » David Hall. >> Okay. So, enough for our history lesson

[2:02:04] for tonight. So, does anybody have any questions? Any more comments?

[2:02:09] » I have a question. I just want to rewind a little bit and go back to Corona. I

[2:02:14] don't see that expansion being a good fit in that area. Is the township hands

[2:02:18] tied on that matter as far as the expansion?

[2:02:22] » Well, I think that as soon as we get u the report from um about the road about

[2:02:28] the traffic, >> I think that's what's holding everything

[2:02:32] right now. >> I mean, it's a it's a permitted use.

[2:02:35] » So, I mean, this is the this is the issue we're into with zoning is it's a

[2:02:40] » um you know, the zoning laws are are what they are. We regulate uses. We

[2:02:44] regulate site coverage, building setbacks, all of that. You know, all

[2:02:49] that stuff in the zoning ordinance. If a project proposes a a structure or a use

[2:02:55] that fits the zoning ordinance, then it's permitted to proceed as long as

[2:02:59] they meet all the other ordinance requirements that we have in our storm

[2:03:02] water and subdivision land development ordinance. And in this case, we have a

[2:03:05] standalone traffic ordinance as well. So, like I I understand I understand

[2:03:11] nobody wants another use that's going to generate more traffic that's going to

[2:03:15] cause more issues at exit 28. I totally understand that. Um but since

[2:03:21] » we don't really have traffic issues on that side of 83 there. They're all on

[2:03:24] this side. >> Well, you don't see it lined up on that

[2:03:28] side. >> It it all plays together. You you don't

[2:03:32] you don't. But the concern and this is what we're we're going right now. We're

[2:03:36] fortunate that we don't have issues on the east side of 83, right?

[2:03:39] » Um I think what we're analyzing here and why this development is getting a lot

[2:03:44] more >> uh of a closer look from PennDOT than a

[2:03:48] lot of the other ones, you know, there's been multiple other developments that

[2:03:51] are built that access exit 28 from the west side. At this point, you're just

[2:03:57] adding more to an existing problem. This is a new impact um that could

[2:04:02] potentially provide more, you know, put more traffic on the east side than ever

[2:04:06] before, >> which will potentially change the

[2:04:09] lighting phases, but change the turning movements, change the stacking, and that

[2:04:15] exacerbates everything else around. >> So, you know, basically this is what

[2:04:21] real quick, let me finish. The what we're looking at is there is an impact

[2:04:26] that will be created by the traffic. Can the developer propose mitigations within

[2:04:31] our ordinance requirements and the PennDOT ordinance requirements or the

[2:04:35] Pendot regulations that address the standard concern of the traffic impact

[2:04:41] and that's where we're at right now. So, um they need to come up with some

[2:04:46] options. PENDOT needs to sign off on them and you know if PENDOT agrees to

[2:04:52] the proposed mitigation measures then I I do think our hands are a little tight.

[2:04:56] we don't have a a good good reason to say no, you can't go there because

[2:05:00] they've met all of our other ordinance requirements.

[2:05:02] » Um, in some other developments, we have leverage over uses that could be a a

[2:05:08] zoning variance. Um, you know, that's the first step, uh, which is what you

[2:05:12] guys saw with that, uh, Proser development that came through, the

[2:05:15] proposed housing development on Copenhaver, that did not meet our

[2:05:18] ordinance, so we shut it down, um, and the zoning board voted that down. So, we

[2:05:22] have some power for uses that don't fit in the current zone. If the use is okay

[2:05:28] and they meet all the dimensional requirements, then we just have to

[2:05:31] ensure that our other ordinances are, you know, you're not no traffic impact,

[2:05:35] no storm water impact or impacts within a reasonable manner, I should say. I

[2:05:41] won't say anything is no impact. >> But that's basically how this how this

[2:05:45] works. So, um, if they were trying to put this in a residential zone, then

[2:05:49] yeah, we'd have a lot more power over it. But where it's at, it's tough. And

[2:05:52] especially with how large that parcel is, it's a very big parcel. So,

[2:05:56] » okay, Marian, you had a >> Y

[2:05:58] » for Posh, you said you wanted another traffic study. Did they comply with

[2:06:03] that? Are they working on that? >> Uh, it's only been a week, [laughter] so

[2:06:08] I I haven't heard any feedback from >> Well, he seemed a little hesitant on

[2:06:13] that. That's why >> he doesn't have a choice. So,

[2:06:15] » yeah. And he's been working on that for years. So, a week is nothing for the

[2:06:19] years that he' been doing this. So, >> no, we we've yeah, I have I have heard I

[2:06:25] was copied on email correspondence from Mr. Pash to his traffic engineer asking

[2:06:29] the traffic engineer to reach out to me and ask what I want. I have not spoken

[2:06:33] with the traffic engineer at this point. Um, but I think I was pretty clear in my

[2:06:37] comment letter what I'll be looking for as far as traffic counts on Coen Haven

[2:06:42] Road that are updated to meet today's standards before we make any decisions.

[2:06:45] But I do want to prepare you all. They could do the traffic counts and they

[2:06:50] could find that what that the development that's going in does not

[2:06:55] pose a measurable impact to the intersection. So just be prepared. Just

[2:07:00] because we're going through this doesn't mean that it will require improvements.

[2:07:04] But I'm not comfortable at this point feeling okay that it doesn't without

[2:07:09] working better numbers. We're too far away from center here. Um, I want them

[2:07:13] to recalibrate their models, recount, and then we'll start from here forward.

[2:07:17] » I just wanted to let you know that posh might forget, but we won't.

[2:07:21] » Don't worry, it's an that's why it's in my comment letter, and it's a condition

[2:07:24] of the again, we haven't even acted on the plan to conditionally approve it,

[2:07:28] but it's an open comment on the letter right now.

[2:07:31] » Yeah. Okay. And I did just look up what our budget is, and it's uh 3.6 3.6 6

[2:07:38] million for uh the year for the year 2026.

[2:07:43] » So, and then with prices next year probably be

[2:07:47] » 37 [clears throat]

[2:07:48] » at least. Yeah. Okay. Uh, anybody have any more questions? Mark, you okay?

[2:07:54] » Good. >> All right. Thank you everybody for

[2:07:56] coming. Meeting adjourned. Jeremy, did I give you a chance to talk

BOS Meeting September 1, 2026

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