[0:00] The following program was produced by

[0:02] CTV Community Television.

[0:04] >> All right, let's call this meeting to

[0:06] order. Uh, please stand for the pledge

[0:08] of allegiance.

[0:10] I

[0:10] >> pledge algiance to the flag of the

[0:13] United States of America and to the

[0:16] republic for which it stands, one nation

[0:19] under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[0:23] justice for all.

[0:26] >> All righty.

[0:28] Roll call. Tom Schwehoffer

[0:31] >> here.

[0:32] >> James Arlo

[0:33] >> here.

[0:35] >> Carol Pushard

[0:36] >> here.

[0:37] >> Ellen Jones

[0:38] >> here.

[0:40] >> Greg Bozelle

[0:41] >> here.

[0:42] >> Roger Beac is absent, excused. And Lance

[0:45] Certigon here.

[0:48] All right. Uh public hearing

[0:53] for the proposed ordinance amendment to

[0:56] 132.14.3

[1:01] accessory building ordinance building

[1:03] size.

[1:05] Uh this is the stuff I believe that uh

[1:08] we've been going through

[1:11] for this is for square footage. Correct

[1:14] Ash?

[1:14] >> That's correct.

[1:16] Okay, let's open the public hearing at

[1:22] 6:33.

[1:28] Is there anybody in the audience that

[1:30] would like to speak to this ordinance?

[1:52] I will make a motion that we will close

[1:54] the public hearing at 6:34.

[1:57] >> I'll second it.

[2:00] >> All in favor signify by saying I.

[2:03] >> I.

[2:04] >> Opposed. Okay. Motion carries.

[2:20] All right. Uh, agenda approval.

[2:24] Any additions or deletions at this

[2:26] point?

[2:40] I will entertain a motion.

[2:43] >> I'll make a motion that we accept the

[2:45] agenda as written.

[2:46] >> I'll second it.

[2:51] » Okay. All in fig all in favor signify by

[2:54] saying I.

[2:56] >> I

[2:57] >> opposed.

[3:03] All righty. Approval of the minutes from

[3:06] August 19th, 2026.

[3:10] Any additions or deletions?

[3:26] » All right. I will entertain a motion.

[3:32] I'll make the motion that the

[3:35] minutes are approved. Is written.

[3:38] >> I'll second.

[3:41] » Okay. Uh, all in favor signify by saying

[3:45] I.

[3:46] >> I.

[3:47] >> Opposed. Okay. Motion carries.

[3:53] Communications. We have none.

[3:56] Public comments on agenda items only.

[3:59] Any

[4:01] public comments?

[4:10] All right. Unfinished business.

[4:13] Um the site plan review for Cortis

[4:15] Brothers. We're still waiting to see if

[4:18] that I believe it went to planning up at

[4:21] the county, but we haven't heard

[4:22] anything back and Greg and Angela

[4:25] checked on it and we haven't heard

[4:27] anything at all. Supposedly, it was

[4:30] already approved up there, but we have

[4:31] nothing signed back from them. So, what

[4:36] we're looking to do at this point in

[4:38] time, um, I would entertain a motion for

[4:42] us to table this

[4:44] till hopefully next meeting and

[4:46] hopefully we can get it approved at that

[4:48] point in time. But that's where it

[4:51] stands with uh, Metro Planning at this

[4:54] point.

[4:55] I'll make a motion then it gets table

[4:58] next meeting.

[5:00] >> I'll sign.

[5:01] >> I'll second.

[5:02] >> Okay.

[5:05] >> All right. All in favor signify by

[5:07] saying I.

[5:09] >> I.

[5:10] >> Opposed.

[5:14] Motion carries.

[5:23] All right. Uh,

[5:26] accessory building

[5:29] ordinance,

[5:31] building size.

[5:33] Uh, Ashley is obviously going to say

[5:36] something here.

[5:37] >> I'm happy to just introduce us,

[5:39] especially as we have um a new trustee

[5:41] here, just to make sure everyone's on

[5:42] the the same page as to what we're what

[5:44] we're talking about. So, um, we just

[5:46] held a public hearing for an amendment

[5:47] to section 132 uh.1404,

[5:51] our accessory building ordinance. Um,

[5:53] the planning commission has been having

[5:55] some challenges um with the maximum size

[5:58] of accessory buildings. As it stands,

[6:01] that is um a a universal standard no

[6:04] matter the district, no matter the lot

[6:06] size. All accessory buildings are capped

[6:08] at 2600 square ft. And so this ended up

[6:12] uh leading to some cases where there

[6:14] were really large often industrial lots

[6:16] who felt um that that standard um didn't

[6:21] allow them to do business they as they

[6:22] would like. Um and in other cases on

[6:25] really small lots you would have you

[6:27] know oversized accessory buildings. And

[6:29] so um over the past few months we've

[6:31] been working um together to craft some

[6:35] regulations that are based on lot size.

[6:38] So, as the lot size increases, the

[6:40] allowable size of your accessory

[6:42] building also increases to be a bit more

[6:44] fair and just to um offer some visual

[6:47] cohesion across the the township. So, um

[6:51] if uh in your packets, you should see um

[6:54] a table on on

[6:58] I don't know what number it is in your

[6:59] packet, but page three um for that that

[7:02] memo. It'll be table 132.14.9.A.

[7:07] a accessory building ground floor area.

[7:10] So that's what's proposed. Um we've

[7:12] talked about it the last couple of

[7:13] meetings and um it seemed like we had a

[7:16] consensus here. We haven't heard uh any public comment in opposition of

[7:21] that. Um and so if um if there if we

[7:25] would want to if we want to discuss it

[7:27] more, I'm happy to to do so. Um but

[7:30] pending any other feedback, our

[7:32] recommendation is that um the planning

[7:34] commission go ahead to recommend this up

[7:36] to the St. Clair County Metrop

[7:38] Metropolitan Planning Commission uh to

[7:40] adopt this this update. Um so happy to talk through it more as as

[7:46] needed.

[7:47] >> Okay, that's it.

[7:50] 132.1404.9,

[7:53] right?

[7:54] >> That's the one.

[7:55] >> Okay.

[7:56] >> It should be all in.

[7:57] >> That's the very last one.

[7:59] >> Yeah, it should be all in red.

[8:00] >> Yep. Anything new is in is in red. Um,

[8:04] we're also proposing some language in

[8:06] there that just um

[8:09] uh clarifies that accessory buildings

[8:12] may not exceed the lot coverage maximum of the district. That was always

[8:17] the case. We're just adding language in

[8:19] there to make sure that it's very very

[8:20] clear.

[8:21] >> Yeah.

[8:21] >> So,

[8:22] >> and the big thing is that still has to

[8:24] come and meet all setbacks and

[8:26] everything else when it is put up.

[8:28] >> Exactly. So this maximum size permitted

[8:31] um will still be required to meet

[8:34] setbacks, lot coverage percentages, um

[8:37] any other um uh dimensional regulations

[8:41] on that lot. So um even those those

[8:44] square footages that you see in that

[8:45] table, it's unlikely that any of those

[8:47] accessory buildings would actually be

[8:49] built up to that size. This is just, you

[8:51] know, before taking into consideration

[8:53] those those other um regulations.

[8:57] We've had some issues on the riverfront

[8:59] area and stuff like that with the 2600

[9:02] square foot buildings.

[9:04] >> Yeah.

[9:04] >> I mean, there's been it it could be

[9:07] built, but the 2600 square foot, it's

[9:10] long and slender and it's like a wall up

[9:13] there and a lot of people don't on the

[9:16] riverfront or they don't like it because

[9:18] it's so huge and everything else.

[9:21] And here again, you you you fight which

[9:24] is the front yard and which is the rear

[9:26] yard on the riverfront.

[9:28] >> Yeah.

[9:28] >> I mean, some people say that they don't

[9:30] have a rear yard. They have two front

[9:31] yards, but that's not true.

[9:33] >> Yeah.

[9:33] >> It doesn't work that way.

[9:34] >> We can't get it straight in our own

[9:36] household. So, I don't expect

[9:38] >> with and with you living there, you know

[9:40] it firsthand at this point.

[9:42] >> We don't.

[9:42] >> And that's the reason why we went from

[9:44] the 2600 square foot to if it's less

[9:47] than one acre, it's 900 square foot.

[9:49] >> Okay.

[9:50] We kind of trimmed that back because the

[9:54] 2600 foot buildings are just they were

[9:57] out of control.

[9:58] >> Yeah.

[10:00] >> Can you can can you they go in front of

[10:02] the planning commission and try to get a

[10:03] variance?

[10:04] >> You go before ZBA in order to get a

[10:06] variance. But

[10:07] >> at this point in time, the big thing is

[10:10] was meeting setbacks with a big

[10:13] building,

[10:13] >> right? And what it ends up being, say

[10:16] you got a 70 foot lot, which I think a

[10:19] lot of those are

[10:20] >> on the river. Yeah.

[10:21] >> On the river, and you do, you know, 40

[10:25] ft by the time you meet a setback on the

[10:27] left and the setback,

[10:29] >> your driveway is damn near over on your

[10:30] neighbor's property,

[10:31] >> right?

[10:33] >> To actually be around it. So that's the

[10:35] reason why we kind of went back and and

[10:37] went through this

[10:39] >> and tried to come up with something that

[10:41] we thought was fair.

[10:44] and would work for all districts at this

[10:48] point. And the big thing is you still

[10:49] have to meet setbacks. So, it still has

[10:51] to to do everything it's supposed to and

[10:54] then some.

[10:55] >> The ones that are on the river or the

[10:57] big the big how long have they been

[10:59] there? Is it been I mean, they're

[11:01] obviously grandfathered in, but is it

[11:02] two, three years or

[11:03] >> No, there's some that's only been there

[11:05] two, three years. Someone fairly new.

[11:07] >> That's what I thought. So, this is just

[11:10] we we never fought it before. We just

[11:12] never really had any guidelines or

[11:14] >> Well, the way this first come about, we

[11:17] were addressing

[11:19] pieces of property out here,

[11:22] >> right? And we never actually thought

[11:24] about

[11:25] >> the river riverfront district until I

[11:28] think it was Steve Tusenowski was one

[11:31] that come in and there was a couple

[11:34] other people from the riverfront that

[11:35] come in and were questioning

[11:38] about the square footage and everything

[11:39] else and why are they so big and they

[11:42] exceed the some of them exceed the the

[11:45] size of the original the dwelling.

[11:47] >> Yeah. The house. Yeah. So, and that's

[11:49] the reason why we brought this all back.

[11:52] Kind of went through all the surrounding

[11:54] communities with East China, China, Ira

[11:56] Township, and everything else to try to

[11:58] make things comparable to a point where

[12:02] we would,

[12:03] >> you know, be fair but still be

[12:05] >> right.

[12:06] >> So,

[12:06] >> yeah. Yeah, we looked at um the to to

[12:09] Lance's point um the accessory building

[12:12] ordinances of the townships surrounding

[12:14] Kotchville and almost every single one

[12:17] uses a similar structure.

[12:18] >> I looked Yeah, I think

[12:20] >> right. So,

[12:21] >> in fact, if you look when you get above

[12:24] I believe it's the 10 acre parcel, a lot

[12:27] of them cut it off at 3600 square ft. M

[12:29] >> we figure as long as you're able to meet

[12:31] setbacks and everything else, that's why

[12:33] we broke it up between 10 and 15 and

[12:35] then 15 acres or more,

[12:37] >> right?

[12:38] >> So

[12:38] >> yeah, if you've got 10 acres, a 6,000

[12:41] foot pole barn is not

[12:42] >> crazy.

[12:43] >> No. And as long as you're meeting

[12:44] setbacks.

[12:45] >> Yeah,

[12:46] >> there should be no issues with it.

[12:50] So, if we're happy with with where this

[12:53] at this time, as I said, our

[12:55] recommendation is that um the um

[12:58] commission makes a motion to recommend

[13:00] this uh amendment to the St. Clair

[13:02] County Metro Planning Commission and the

[13:04] Township Board um for approval.

[13:07] >> Does

[13:09] at 25% now, does that come into play on

[13:11] this particular thing, too?

[13:13] >> Um it does. Totally. So, for some for

[13:15] some context, um we've been kind of

[13:17] doing a deep dive on our accessory

[13:19] building ordinance and just

[13:20] understanding how accessory buildings

[13:22] come up in different districts. Um and a

[13:24] couple cases have come before us uh in

[13:27] the industrial district. Um and we

[13:30] realized that the industrial district

[13:32] didn't have any lot coverage maximum.

[13:34] And so if you're trying to um regulate

[13:37] the sizes of accessory buildings, you

[13:39] need a lot coverage maximum to say,

[13:41] "Hey, here's where things get cut off."

[13:43] Um and so prior to doing this ordinance

[13:46] amendment, we uh sent to the St. Clair

[13:49] County uh planning commission um an

[13:51] amendment to establish a 25% lot

[13:54] coverage in the industrial district. And

[13:56] that's just your principal buildings and

[13:58] your accessory buildings. So you can

[14:00] imagine on, you know, a 20 acre

[14:03] property, you still have a ton of square

[14:04] footage to work with for um both your

[14:07] principal buildings and your accessory

[14:08] buildings, but making sure that there

[14:10] was lot coverage helps this ordinance

[14:13] around make sense. Um and so it it will

[14:16] come into play when we have um

[14:19] applicants come in in the industrial

[14:20] district,

[14:21] >> right? That that hasn't been approved

[14:22] yet, though. We're still waiting to hear

[14:23] that.

[14:24] >> That's the one we're waiting for.

[14:27] Yeah. So, it's on its way, but the

[14:29] sequence that we did it was was um I

[14:31] think wise in making sure we had those

[14:33] other regulations in place and then the

[14:35] accessory building uh ordinances can can

[14:38] be reflective of that.

[14:39] >> Okay.

[14:40] >> Yeah.

[14:41] >> Thank you.

[14:43] >> All right. Anything else for Ashley? Any

[14:46] other questions?

[14:52] All right. Um I will make a motion that

[14:56] we take

[14:57] uh the accessory building size section

[15:01] 1321404.3

[15:04] and submit this to metro planning for

[15:08] approval up at the county level.

[15:11] >> I'll second.

[15:16] » All right. All in favor signify by

[15:18] saying I. I

[15:21] >> opposed. Okay. Motion carries.

[15:29] All right. Draft master plan review.

[15:34] » Okay. Um, so our draft master plan is

[15:37] nearing final adoption stages. Uh for

[15:40] context for folks who are new in the

[15:41] room since June 2025 um the township has

[15:44] been working with our team at McKenna to

[15:46] update the community's master plan which

[15:48] uh just sets the next 10 to 20 year

[15:51] strategy for land use, infrastructure,

[15:54] housing, transportation, um economic

[15:57] development. Um and we uh this master

[16:00] plan was informed by both quantitative

[16:02] and qualitative data. We had a community

[16:04] survey. We had a popup event at last

[16:06] year's hood hoods [cough] tunes and

[16:08] [clears throat] bruise. Um, we've

[16:09] discussed the master plan at eight at

[16:12] least eight public meetings. Um, and we

[16:14] had a 63-day public comment period where

[16:17] the master plan was available here at

[16:19] Township Hall and also available

[16:20] publicly um where folks could read the

[16:23] draft and offer some comments. Um, so

[16:26] during that 63-day comment period, um,

[16:29] in addition to receiving comments from

[16:31] staff and from the planning commission,

[16:33] uh, a total of five comments were

[16:35] received through the public comment

[16:37] portal. Um, and so, uh, myself and, uh,

[16:41] the township supervisor and your chair,

[16:43] we sat down to review all of the

[16:45] comments, um, and to make decisions on

[16:48] how to best incorporate those comments

[16:49] into the draft. Um, in your packet,

[16:51] you'll have what kind of looks like a

[16:53] table, and that lists out every single

[16:55] comment that we received, whether it

[16:57] came from planning commissioners or from

[16:59] community members, and how that comment

[17:02] was addressed in the final plan with

[17:05] page numbers if uh if necessary. Um,

[17:10] so we feel as though with these edits,

[17:12] the master plan is in a really good

[17:14] place. We find it to be reflective of

[17:16] everything that we've heard from the

[17:18] community, you know, championing

[17:22] uh rural character, uh thinking wisely

[17:25] about our land use and uh trying to uh

[17:29] continue to make Kraville a great place

[17:30] to to raise a family and to uh grow old.

[17:34] And so um we're happy with where it's

[17:37] at, but would love to hear um any

[17:39] feedback from you all. The next step

[17:42] would be to set a public hearing on the

[17:44] draft master plan um which we hope will

[17:46] be at the next uh planning commission

[17:48] meeting.

[17:57] I did call Ashley today and ask about

[18:02] uh data centers

[18:04] because there was a

[18:07] meeting at the county level yesterday

[18:10] that they are starting to review

[18:14] about data centers and everything else

[18:16] and how we are going to in turn

[18:22] how do I want to say guide those along I

[18:25] guess is the way to put it

[18:26] >> because there's something that Ashley's

[18:28] going to probably start working on a

[18:31] ordinance with Greg on the data centers

[18:34] and stuff like that. I believe he had

[18:37] started something and we're going to

[18:39] probably critique that a little bit and

[18:42] see what we're going to do. Um, the big

[18:46] thing they're worried about is noise,

[18:49] light, the amount of energy that they

[18:52] actually do use,

[18:54] and water.

[18:57] >> Water normally is recycled unless they

[19:00] have open outside cooling. If they have

[19:04] open outside cooling, a lot of it

[19:05] evaporates.

[19:07] Um, unless like where they're talking on

[19:12] putting one possibly is at the old DTE

[19:15] plant up in uh Mary'sville.

[19:18] >> Yeah.

[19:19] >> And that at that point in time they

[19:22] could probably do the same thing that

[19:25] DTE did for ever with cooling

[19:29] properties. They would take river water

[19:31] in and then they would cool everything

[19:34] and they would in turn release the

[19:36] warmer water back to the river. Well,

[19:40] supposedly there were some questions

[19:42] raised last night at the meeting that

[19:45] there's problems with the ecosystem and

[19:47] everything else. That plant's been there

[19:49] for how many years?

[19:50] >> Yeah,

[19:52] >> I don't think there's been any issues

[19:54] downstream that I know of. Um I I do

[19:58] agree that they do warm the water up,

[20:01] but I mean the water mixes. There seems

[20:06] to be no issue that way. Mhm.

[20:08] >> It's not polluted in any way. It's just

[20:10] a temperature change.

[20:12] >> The only other way they could do it is

[20:14] be a closed loop

[20:16] >> and either bury a closed loop

[20:18] underground and use that for cooling

[20:20] that way.

[20:22] >> But here again, we have nothing right

[20:24] now on the books, especially with us at

[20:27] this point. and they're still going to

[20:28] have to make and meet all of our

[20:32] setbacks and our ordinances and

[20:34] everything else at that point in time

[20:36] for right

[20:37] >> if they you know if there's a parcel big

[20:39] enough but for the size of parcel they

[20:42] would need you're talking probably

[20:46] 120 acres maybe more for uh a so many

[20:50] gigawatt style uh data center at that

[20:55] point

[20:55] >> how big is the physical building I

[20:57] thought it is only like 40,000 square

[20:59] ft.

[21:00] >> Well, it all matters how how many

[21:02] gigawatt the the data center is.

[21:05] >> Then you have to look into um

[21:10] uh auxiliary power is the other thing,

[21:13] >> right?

[21:14] >> And

[21:16] it's just

[21:17] >> cooling all that, you know, that's

[21:18] >> all that all that building. There

[21:20] there's a lot to it actually.

[21:21] >> See, there's such a high demand for

[21:24] these data centers that people are going

[21:26] to get creative. I thought why not put

[21:27] the whole thing underground.

[21:29] >> It keeps with the noise. I mean, if

[21:31] there if they're that much in demand,

[21:34] >> but they're really not. It's being it's

[21:36] if it's the whole thing is being

[21:38] inflated.

[21:39] >> Well, the big

[21:40] >> because

[21:41] >> the big thing is

[21:42] >> people there isn't a demand for it.

[21:44] >> And that's the problem. I mean, there is

[21:46] to a point, but it's not like I guess

[21:48] >> you and I ain't going to use it to go

[21:49] Christmas shopping like they thought

[21:51] everybody was going to.

[21:52] >> Well, there is a demand for it, but the

[21:54] big thing is do here again

[21:58] >> and then I don't want to get into the

[21:59] political part of this but the issue is

[22:02] >> do you want the United States to lead or

[22:06] do you want China to lead? Do you want

[22:09] this country to lead?

[22:10] >> That's that's where I'm at. And

[22:12] >> guys, I use AI all day every day.

[22:14] >> And as of right now,

[22:15] >> I'm 64 years old. It's not that hard to

[22:17] use. You know, if you can talk, you can

[22:19] use it.

[22:19] >> Yeah. But the the United States is right

[22:22] now leading in the data centers. We have

[22:26] over 5,400

[22:28] some odd data centers as compared to I

[22:31] believe the highest other one is China

[22:32] with about 440 of them.

[22:34] >> Okay.

[22:35] >> So the US is still leading but it this

[22:39] is something that's going to be up and

[22:40] coming and that's the only reason why

[22:42] and if we don't have it in the master

[22:45] plan correctly and everything else it

[22:47] can come back to bite us at that point.

[22:49] I thought when I talked to Greg about,

[22:51] you know, the area that people were

[22:53] looking at, I thought he had them pretty

[22:54] well boxed out by all of the different

[22:57] parameters that he had set for.

[22:58] >> The biggest thing is with data centers

[23:00] here in our township, it has to be on

[23:03] industrial property,

[23:05] >> right? And in in your master plan, we

[23:08] have language that um again, you can't

[23:11] ban any use outright. Um but we have

[23:15] language that establishes your land use

[23:17] priorities. um establishes that you know

[23:19] you're seeking out light industrial uses

[23:23] um that you're trying to maintain the

[23:24] rural character here. So as much as

[23:27] possible and and and we also have

[23:28] language around you know solar and wind

[23:30] energy and and battery storage uh and

[23:33] cell towers as well. So as much as we

[23:36] can align uh the community's intentions

[23:38] with the language in here, we we've done

[23:40] that. Um, and then the next step would

[23:42] be making sure that your zoning

[23:43] ordinance had uh policies to um back

[23:47] that up. Um, and so typically how it

[23:50] works is that, you know, you you um

[23:52] adopt a master plan and then you take a

[23:54] look at your zoning ordinance and make

[23:55] sure that your regulations match the

[23:57] plan. Um, and so we're doing step one

[24:00] here with uh making sure the language is

[24:02] in place and then next step would be

[24:04] your zoning ordinance.

[24:05] So did we was there more language added

[24:08] to the sheet with you know that we were

[24:10] talking about last month you know for

[24:12] the data it was kind of vague I thought

[24:14] >> but did you update this what we had

[24:15] here? So, we've added language uh it's

[24:19] to page 122

[24:22] um in your master plan. Uh we've added a

[24:24] section around battery battery energy

[24:26] storage systems um and uh refine the

[24:30] language around data centers as well.

[24:33] Um,

[24:36] again, you can't you can't outright,

[24:39] you know, ban a use. As much as we can

[24:43] communicate your priorities here, we've done that.

[24:46] >> So, that's what I I guess my question

[24:48] just from this original draft, it's been

[24:51] >> kind of tweaked some.

[24:52] >> It's been critiqued. The big thing I was

[24:55] when I was I talked to Ashley today,

[24:57] >> the next thing we have to do now is we

[25:00] have to work on the ordinance aspect of

[25:01] this.

[25:02] >> Okay.

[25:03] I mean, we're we're covered with our

[25:05] master plan at this point in time, which

[25:07] of course the master plan is what a

[25:09] guide. Yep.

[25:10] >> So, at that point in time, once we get

[25:13] to the point where we get the master

[25:15] plans done and everything else, we can

[25:17] go from there and then we need to work

[25:19] on our ordinance for that aspect.

[25:25] » All right.

[25:26] Any other questions or

[25:27] concerns?

[25:31] Uh I know last month there was we had

[25:34] quite a bit of discussion about this new

[25:36] map they had here.

[25:37] >> The future land use map.

[25:38] >> Yeah.

[25:39] That a future land use compared to

[25:42] what the old one was.

[25:43] >> Yep. So that is um

[25:46] >> I think that was page

[25:47] >> 106

[25:49] >> 107 the one I got here. If I'm on the

[25:51] right one.

[25:52] >> Yeah, you're right. You're right.

[25:53] >> Yeah.

[25:53] >> Um and so we have made some edits to

[25:57] that chapter. The first is just to add

[25:59] some more educational information around

[26:01] what a future land use map is and the

[26:03] difference between a zoning map and a

[26:05] future land use map. Again, you know, a

[26:07] future land use map guides future

[26:09] development, but your zoning ordinance

[26:10] or the regulations and the districts of

[26:12] today. Um we have added a table that

[26:16] compares uh you know master plans and

[26:19] future land use plans and zoning

[26:20] ordinances and zoning maps. Um we have

[26:24] uh amended the future land use map. Um

[26:29] a new map is on page 107. Uh there were

[26:32] some areas where medium density

[26:35] residential was proposed and I believe

[26:37] we've brought that back down to low

[26:39] density residential. Um,

[26:42] and I believe there were a couple other

[26:44] like parcel level changes down uh near

[26:48] uh

[26:50] >> Well, that's what we wonder about along

[26:51] that drudge cut there, but I don't know

[26:53] if there's any flood planes involved. I

[26:54] mean, on this map, it doesn't show any

[26:56] of that here, but

[26:57] >> yeah, we have a flood plane map in the master plan. Um,

[27:02] that of course would have to be

[27:04] consulted with any new development.

[27:07] Okay,

[27:08] we do it again. [laughter]

[27:14] All right, any other questions?

[27:20] All right. I will make a motion to

[27:22] direct the planner to work with the Clay

[27:24] Township Clerk or the Carterville

[27:26] Township Clerk and set a public hearing

[27:29] on the draft master plan for adoption to

[27:31] be held at the next meeting uh regularly

[27:35] scheduled meeting of the planning

[27:36] commission.

[27:38] >> I'll support it.

[27:40] >> Okay. With motion and support.

[27:44] Uh all in favor signify by saying I. I

[27:48] >> I

[27:49] >> opposed.

[27:51] >> Okay, motion carries.

[27:53] >> Great. And just so um we're all on the

[27:55] same page. So, we'll host a public

[27:56] hearing um at our next meeting on the

[27:58] draft master plan. We'll take, you know,

[28:00] additional public comments. Um and then

[28:02] at that point, we can discuss if we're

[28:04] ready to recommend the master plan on to

[28:06] the township board for adoption.

[28:08] Correct. Um after the public hearing, we

[28:10] can still make some additional changes.

[28:12] So, you know, if you even spend some

[28:13] more time with it or we hear some

[28:15] comments from the public, um, even we

[28:18] can recommend to the township board on

[28:19] the condition of some changes, too. So,

[28:21] there's still time to make some

[28:22] amendments if you see them.

[28:24] >> Okay. Thank you.

[28:25] >> Y,

[28:32] next item on the agenda

[28:35] is a slight plan review for 7347 Marine

[28:40] City Highway.

[28:42] Um,

[28:48] Mr. Elmosaw is here uh in regards to the

[28:52] parcel and what he's looking to do. He

[28:57] actually has a piece of property that

[28:59] they are working on down river from us

[29:03] and he's looking for just what a couple

[29:06] months you were saying about six months.

[29:08] >> I said month and worst case you know six

[29:12] months I hope

[29:13] >> okay

[29:14] >> it shouldn't take that long but just in

[29:15] case if we run into some obstacles

[29:18] >> no I totally understand

[29:20] um I did go walk the parcel today and uh

[29:25] there is no issues that I can see over

[29:27] there it is a heavily treated area

[29:31] around the parcel

[29:34] you can barely see what's back there I

[29:36] mean it's all fully

[29:39] >> you know there is really no issues

[29:41] there. Uh the only issue I could see is

[29:47] um if there was a fire back there, it'd

[29:50] be the only issue being the gate is

[29:52] locked. I was just kind of wondering and

[29:56] if it's only for six months, I guess we

[29:58] probably should be fine. I was just

[30:00] wondering if a key could be given to the

[30:02] fire department if it's longer than six

[30:04] months.

[30:04] >> No problem. We always left that gate

[30:06] open till we find out someone come d

[30:10] Yeah, I did see the pile of shingles

[30:13] that was back there, too. Yes.

[30:19] » Never fails.

[30:20] >> It just never fails.

[30:24] » Um, do you guys have any questions for

[30:27] the gentlemen?

[30:29] I just see a clerical error on the

[30:33] property information. It's addressed as

[30:36] Marine 7347 Marine City Highway, East

[30:39] China.

[30:40] >> Oh, yeah.

[30:43] >> Um,

[30:45] other than that, if there's

[30:48] you're not storing anything in the

[30:50] trailers?

[30:51] >> No, they're empty.

[30:53] >> Some of them got some old used

[30:58] and pallets and shel and stuff. But now

[31:02] with this, I informed the gentleman

[31:06] and explain to him, gave me a copy of

[31:09] our new building.

[31:10] >> He did give us a copy of the new lease

[31:12] for his new property.

[31:14] >> Okay.

[31:14] >> So, all the stuff that's being stored

[31:17] there will be moved when he's ready for

[31:20] it down

[31:21] >> to his place.

[31:24] sitting there money on the ground

[31:27] >> and we need these traders so we can

[31:29] empty them, go through them, take what

[31:32] we need to order to new place. We got

[31:33] 42,000 square ft and there's some rules

[31:37] and things

[31:39] put it back on the road. Some of them

[31:42] worthy

[31:43] >> and anything we don't need, we're going

[31:45] to sell it. Anything old or cannot be

[31:48] sold, go to the scrubard and buy will be

[31:52] empty because we move it to Southfield.

[31:55] We are way out of the way. That's about

[31:57] 90 minutes away and we have no business

[32:00] here. We don't conduct any business in

[32:03] this city. All our business down south.

[32:08] >> Okay.

[32:09] >> He was originally he was originally from

[32:12] Warren and they're moving down river a

[32:14] little bit further. How did you end up

[32:16] here?

[32:18] >> How did you end up in Katraville?

[32:20] >> Oh, that's Mr. Co. [laughter]

[32:24] >> Okay,

[32:25] >> so mess me up.

[32:27] >> Change all the plan. Everything I had

[32:29] planned for has collapsed. So, it's been

[32:33] very very rough three years, last three

[32:36] years.

[32:37] >> But, uh, we'll we'll fight back and uh,

[32:41] finally, I see the light at the end of

[32:43] the tunnel.

[32:45] We're going moving back and we own

[32:48] property down by the airport

[32:51] 43 acres and if it's co did not hit we

[32:56] won't be sitting here talking about

[32:57] today

[32:59] >> but I'll get it going again.

[33:01] >> Well, I hope your luck changes.

[33:03] >> Thank you so much.

[33:05] So at the end of let's say whatever time

[33:08] period it is six months or something and

[33:10] then

[33:11] >> everything that's will be removed from

[33:13] the property then just basically vacant

[33:16] land again.

[33:16] >> The grass can eat it alive. Okay.

[33:18] >> Yeah.

[33:19] >> And it's useless either if I leave it

[33:22] here I don't need it. If I don't need it

[33:24] why sitting here just

[33:29] >> No, I I understand. I agree with you.

[33:31] don't have any motivation to leave

[33:33] it here, but after 6 months, do we have

[33:35] any recourse if we if he doesn't move it

[33:38] or do we even care

[33:39] >> if they're not toxic storage? I don't

[33:42] know.

[33:42] >> The big thing is here is we are if we

[33:46] grant the land use application,

[33:49] >> right?

[33:50] >> The land use application doesn't run

[33:52] out. He's just saying that it'll he'll

[33:55] probably use

[33:57] it up to six months is what he's saying.

[33:59] >> Yep. And then when he leaves the

[34:01] property, you are going to clean the

[34:02] property up. Correct.

[34:04] >> If we if we don't have that meeting

[34:06] today, regardless,

[34:08] I'm moving these triggers any because

[34:11] it's not doing me any good. We are

[34:13] moving down that.

[34:14] >> Right. But all we're doing at this point

[34:16] in time is bringing you into compliance

[34:18] with the way it is right now.

[34:20] >> Yeah. We're focused on the use, not the

[34:21] timing of the use.

[34:22] >> Correct. Right.

[34:23] >> Correct.

[34:24] >> All right. Again,

[34:27] I'm brand new, so I'm asking a lot of

[34:28] questions that maybe I shouldn't be, but

[34:30] >> No, that's that's No, that's that's a

[34:32] fair question. If we were treating it as

[34:33] >> That's what it's about.

[34:34] >> Yeah.

[34:34] No, that's that's fair. If

[34:36] >> like I say, when I when I went out and

[34:38] walked the property, there's a couple

[34:40] there's a tractor, there's a dozer,

[34:42] there's a boat, there's a truck, there's

[34:44] a fuel tank, which is a doublewalled

[34:46] fuel tank. I did look at that. Um, and

[34:50] >> someone pick up a truck. We use it in

[34:52] the yard to fill up the

[34:55] >> Mhm.

[34:56] >> And it's old. We don't need it anymore,

[34:58] but we got to move it out of there. Then

[35:00] the dozer, we left it there because the

[35:03] winter needed to clear

[35:05] >> clear the snow.

[35:06] >> Yeah.

[35:07] >> And then, like I said, then they've got

[35:08] there's probably

[35:11] 10 to 15 tractors for semi-tractors that

[35:15] are there that are in some are in

[35:18] disarray, some are complete. Um, and

[35:22] then there's just trailers pretty much

[35:26] >> that are there now.

[35:27] >> That are there.

[35:28] >> Yeah, correct.

[35:29] >> I think I know exactly what you're

[35:30] talking about.

[35:31] >> I mean, there's every bit of

[35:33] >> Well, if there ain't 100 trailers there,

[35:35] I don't know if there's

[35:35] >> Oh, really?

[35:36] >> Uh, yeah, maybe the amount increased

[35:40] lately because our base is expired.

[35:43] >> Yeah,

[35:44] >> there's there's a lot of them there. I

[35:46] will say that.

[35:48] >> So, we have to like I said, Right.

[35:52] >> So, finally I signed the new lease for

[35:53] the new building.

[35:55] >> Mhm. Okay.

[35:59] >> All right. Uh

[36:01] >> there is um like no bond that's posted

[36:04] for anything like that. The reason I'm

[36:07] asking is many years ago I know somebody

[36:09] they had 40 acres. There was an old

[36:11] house. They wanted to build the new

[36:12] house. They had a post a bond that they

[36:15] didn't get that money back until they

[36:16] tore the first old house down when the

[36:19] new one was completed

[36:20] >> because there's no development

[36:22] happening. I don't think you can require

[36:24] anything like that.

[36:25] >> Yeah.

[36:26] >> Um but it's it's it's a fair point

[36:29] >> and really a bond on our aspect wouldn't

[36:31] be wouldn't be us anyway. That would

[36:34] come out of I believe building and

[36:36] zoning.

[36:37] >> Correct.

[36:38] >> Right. That would happen at the building

[36:39] department. [music] Um,

[36:41] >> but yeah, for for us, you know, the

[36:44] site's largely in compliance with the

[36:46] industrial district standards. That

[36:48] screening piece was the only outstanding

[36:50] piece that the planning commission needs

[36:51] to decide. And um, Lance has stated that

[36:53] there's plenty of tree coverage. We're

[36:55] not abuing any residential properties.

[36:57] So,

[36:57] >> I mean, I think what we we show as being

[37:01] compliant was an 8 foot fence, I do

[37:03] believe. Correct.

[37:04] >> Um, right. And at this the trees are

[37:08] >> the tree line is probably

[37:10] >> 30 40 feet all the way around the

[37:12] parcel.

[37:13] >> You know there's

[37:14] >> the driveway alone it's like you cannot

[37:17] even see it.

[37:17] >> No the driveway the driveway to the

[37:20] gates got to be probably 250 300 feet

[37:23] off the road. So

[37:24] >> like I say and if unless you're looking

[37:27] directly down the driveway

[37:29] >> you don't even know you don't even know

[37:30] it's there. I miss when I come to the

[37:32] yard sometimes once a while I always

[37:35] miss it.

[37:35] >> Pass it up.

[37:42] » So yeah. So at this point you'd be um

[37:45] considering approving the plan on the

[37:46] condition that a key be given to the the

[37:48] fire department.

[37:49] >> The only thing that I mean just just

[37:51] >> Yeah. I think we're smart just in case.

[37:53] there's a fire of some sort

[37:55] back there. And then at the point in

[37:57] time once the property's vacated, if the

[38:00] owner of the property wants the key

[38:02] back, there's no problem there either.

[38:05] >> So do we know I mean what

[38:08] >> I guess did I miss what is actually

[38:10] going to be stored there? You know,

[38:11] >> right now

[38:12] >> just it's just a empty trailers and

[38:13] truck.

[38:15] >> All right. There's not we're not storing

[38:16] any materials.

[38:17] >> There's no materials there whatsoever.

[38:19] >> Okay. All right. Cool.

[38:21] >> No everything. Like I say, I looked in

[38:23] threequarters of the trailers. Most of

[38:24] the trailers are all licensed.

[38:27] Uh there's a couple with uh out of state

[38:30] plates that are maybe one year out of

[38:32] compliance that way, but that's not us

[38:34] anyway.

[38:34] >> Yeah, that's not okay.

[38:36] >> Maine Maine.

[38:37] >> Yes.

[38:38] >> If it's Maine, that's not expired.

[38:40] >> Oh, really? Okay.

[38:42] >> A lot of trucking company

[38:46] is good for life.

[38:47] >> Oh, okay. Well, now our permanent

[38:49] trailer plates are now, but they weren't

[38:51] back then.

[38:52] >> Yeah.

[38:53] >> Okay.

[38:56] >> All right. Um,

[38:59] I will entertain a motion to approve the

[39:03] site plan

[39:05] >> on the condition that a key be given

[39:06] >> under the condition that a key be given

[39:08] for the fire department.

[39:14] I'll make a motion that the uh site plan

[39:17] be approved under the condition of the

[39:20] key is given to the fire department.

[39:22] >> Yes.

[39:23] >> And uh we really aren't going to deal

[39:26] with a time frame or nothing. Just

[39:28] basically Okay.

[39:30] As written. So

[39:32] >> yeah. Can I hear a second?

[39:34] >> I'll second.

[39:35] >> Okay.

[39:41] Uh, all in favor signify by saying I.

[39:44] >> I.

[39:45] >> Opposed. Okay. Motion carries. You're

[39:48] all set.

[39:50] >> Thank you for coming.

[39:51] >> Thank you so much. Nice meeting you

[39:53] guys.

[39:53] >> Oh, you too. Good luck.

[39:54] >> Yeah. Good luck.

[39:55] >> Next time I show up, we'll talk about

[40:01] industrial property.

[40:03] >> [laughter]

[40:05] » My plan is just I even I came here with

[40:09] my real estate agent

[40:11] >> and we spoke to the lady in charge and

[40:13] we talk about everything. My plan is to

[40:17] have an industrial part and we start

[40:20] running to a come back and I'll build on

[40:25] the left on the right

[40:29] and you just build them.

[40:33] Awesome.

[40:33] >> And make the right.

[40:36] >> Okay.

[40:36] >> All righty.

[40:37] >> All right, sir. [laughter]

[40:39] >> All right.

[40:39] >> We'll see.

[40:40] >> I'm gonna go play.

[40:43] >> All right.

[40:44] >> Good luck, bud. Good luck. Take care,

[40:46] guys.

[40:47] >> Have a good night.

[40:48] >> See you later.

[40:49] >> All right. Uh, next item on the agenda,

[40:52] public comment and announcements.

[40:56] And I don't see any.

[40:58] >> Commissioner comments. Thomas.

[41:02] No, I'm all set.

[41:04] >> You sure?

[41:05] >> Yeah, I really don't have a lot to say

[41:08] today.

[41:09] >> All right. Uh, Greg,

[41:11] >> uh, thanks for having me. Sorry for the,

[41:14] uh, stupid questions, but you know,

[41:17] >> start somewhere and there's no way. You

[41:20] know, one thing I don't know either is

[41:21] that, you know, I I I'm the leazison on

[41:23] to the board, right?

[41:24] >> Correct.

[41:25] >> Do I do I vote? Do I have any say or do

[41:28] I, you know,

[41:29] >> on our board?

[41:30] >> I don't want to overstep my boundary.

[41:32] No, no,

[41:32] >> I just don't know.

[41:33] >> You're uh you're you're a sitting

[41:35] commissioner just like the rest of us.

[41:37] You're full-fledged.

[41:38] >> The only thing you do at that point in

[41:40] time is if the board asks you any

[41:42] questions, you tell them.

[41:43] >> Yeah.

[41:44] >> Okay.

[41:45] >> What we're doing here basically.

[41:46] >> Yeah. Yeah. I just kind of got thrown

[41:49] into the mix.

[41:50] >> No, you're fine.

[41:51] >> I'm okay. I just wanted to make sure I

[41:53] knew where I stood.

[41:53] >> No, you're fine. James,

[41:56] >> I had mentioned it before and I just

[41:58] still wonder, but I mean like the uh

[42:02] the gravel train traffic, they've kind

[42:05] of like since we've redid the bridge on

[42:08] Chartier now they got the load

[42:10] restrictions off it.

[42:11] >> Mhm.

[42:12] Well, the normal route should be like 26

[42:15] to King Road, Chartier, and to the stone

[42:18] yards, you know, but now there's quite a

[42:20] few of them that are cutting off on

[42:22] Marsh Road, Chartier. It's eliminating

[42:25] one stop sign, but it's, you know, it's

[42:29] more of a residential area where they do

[42:31] have a commercial area where this truck

[42:32] traffic should be going. And Greg, it

[42:35] said something about they're going to

[42:36] look at possibly, you know, putting some

[42:38] signage up or something, you know, no

[42:39] through truck traffic or anything like

[42:41] that. And I mean, how do we approach

[42:43] that to try to I understand deliveries

[42:46] got to go through and if you're building

[42:48] something, but just using it as a

[42:50] throughway is what they're doing now

[42:54] just to get to the stone yard to get

[42:56] back to 26. [clears throat] And I think

[42:57] >> when it's destroying a lot of roads and

[43:00] everything, you know, I mean, it's just

[43:01] bad for the neighbors and I just some

[43:03] way of trying to curve that.

[43:05] >> I don't know. Do we have any

[43:06] jurisdiction on something like that,

[43:08] Ash?

[43:08] >> Um, it might depend on on the road.

[43:11] Exactly. I think a good place to start

[43:12] would be some signage. Um or I don't

[43:15] know if if you you know the the is it a

[43:19] the industrial park where they're

[43:21] headed. I don't know if we know the

[43:22] >> they're going to a grally

[43:25] area on the river actually.

[43:26] >> Is that it's it's within the township?

[43:29] >> Yeah. Yes.

[43:30] >> It might be Marine City.

[43:34] >> Yeah. They have to go through our

[43:35] township to get to Right.

[43:36] >> But it's not ours.

[43:37] >> Right. So yeah, I mean my recommendation

[43:39] would be to start with some signage and

[43:41] then maybe, you know, get in touch with

[43:43] the management of the the facility

[43:46] there. Maybe Greg can give that guy a

[43:47] call and just let him know, hey, we're experiencing the this cut through

[43:50] traffic. We're putting up some sign

[43:51] start there. And if that doesn't seem to

[43:54] solve problems, then maybe we can look

[43:57] into some other enforcement type

[43:59] options. But um I don't know.

[44:02] >> I just see a lot of signs go up. You

[44:04] know, they're talking about Jake

[44:05] breaking, no engine breaking. You see

[44:07] that? Yeah. And then

[44:09] >> engine braking is not supposed to be

[44:10] used in a residential,

[44:11] >> right? And they're doing it and that's

[44:13] what I mean,

[44:13] >> right? So, it's an enforcement kind of

[44:15] piece. I don't know if that's, you know,

[44:17] public safety.

[44:18] >> Well, you know, when that roundabout

[44:20] comes, it's going to get a lot worse.

[44:22] >> Which roundabout's this?

[44:24] >> Um, Marsh and Marine City Highway.

[44:26] >> Oh, yeah.

[44:27] >> Next year.

[44:27] >> That's supposed to be the next one.

[44:29] >> Yeah.

[44:31] >> They're going to put a roundabout there.

[44:34] When that comes, the trucks rather than

[44:37] make a half circle around, they're going

[44:38] to make a right hand turn and then a

[44:40] rolling left on the chart here

[44:44] and then this straight shot in. So that

[44:46] way they avoid the red light and

[44:48] >> on Marine City Highway and King the red

[44:51] light road. Yeah.

[44:52] >> Plank West Boulevard, whichever way you

[44:54] want to call it

[44:56] >> and a stop sign.

[44:57] >> Yeah. So, they're just it's just a

[45:01] they've got to slow down for the

[45:03] roundabout anyhow.

[45:04] >> So, they're just going to make a right

[45:06] hand turn.

[45:06] >> And the only thing is if the road is

[45:08] rated for their weight, I don't know

[45:11] there's jurisdiction to stop them.

[45:14] When when I

[45:16] when we well when we both built our

[45:18] houses back in the 70s,

[45:23] uh that end of Marsh Road was rated at 9

[45:26] ton when they repaved retopped it here

[45:30] what about six years ago?

[45:32] >> Yeah. No, maybe a little longer.

[45:34] >> Probably six, seven years ago. That's

[45:37] when they took the nine ton ride rating

[45:39] down. Since then, the semi traffic, the

[45:44] gravel train traffic has

[45:47] slowly accelerated, but in the last

[45:50] year, it's picked up a lot.

[45:53] >> Yeah.

[45:54] >> And when that roundabout comes, it's

[45:57] going to pick up a lot more because

[45:59] Marine City Highway has a lot of

[46:02] gravel trains that go to the gravel

[46:04] yards that both yards down there.

[46:08] And they put that new bridge across the

[46:10] drudge cut.

[46:11] >> Right.

[46:12] >> That's that was a capper.

[46:13] >> Yeah. Now they took all the restrictions

[46:15] off right there.

[46:16] >> Right.

[46:17] >> They were, you know, I mean, a two axle

[46:19] truck was barely going to make it over

[46:20] that one at that point, you know.

[46:22] >> Right.

[46:24] >> Yeah. I don't know. Like I said, that's something I don't know. That's

[46:27] kind of out of my my realm. I can tell

[46:29] you that.

[46:29] >> I had talked to Greg and he says

[46:31] something about

[46:33] truck route, you know, signages and

[46:34] stuff because that is supposedly the

[46:37] ideal route. through more the way it's

[46:40] zoned and industrial type thing. I don't

[46:42] >> I actually think that's something that

[46:43] would go I think to the township board.

[46:47] >> Yeah.

[46:47] >> Because I know Clay Township's done it

[46:50] for like the sand pit that was over on

[46:53] Benoy that West Simons used to own.

[46:56] There was a truck route section that had

[46:58] to come in off a marsh. couldn't come in

[46:59] off a stone road and go there

[47:01] >> because you had to use the truck route

[47:03] which the truck route was off a marsh

[47:05] and straight down but in order to get

[47:07] there.

[47:08] >> Okay.

[47:08] >> So, I mean there's probably where

[47:10] there's a will there's a way. It's just

[47:12] I don't know how the township goes about

[47:14] it.

[47:14] >> Yeah, I can look into it just to see

[47:16] what what other communities have done.

[47:18] I'm not

[47:19] >> Yeah, appreciate it because I just

[47:22] >> try to nip it in a bud before it does

[47:24] get too much but you know

[47:25] >> you can slow it down some.

[47:27] >> For sure.

[47:28] >> Yeah.

[47:29] Because

[47:29] >> right

[47:30] >> there's a lot of semis that come up and

[47:33] down now

[47:35] >> and they don't slow down. That's the

[47:36] worst part. They're they're they're

[47:37] hauling. You know, time is money so

[47:39] they're going.

[47:40] >> Yeah.

[47:43] That's all I got. Thank you,

[47:50] » Carol.

[47:51] >> What?

[47:51] >> Anything?

[47:53] >> Nothing.

[47:55] >> Hello.

[47:55] >> No.

[47:57] >> All right. I have nothing. Uh, do I hear

[48:00] a motion?

[48:02] >> I'll make a motion we turn the meeting

[48:05] for tonight.

[48:06] >> Second it.

[48:08] >> All in favor signify by saying I.

[48:11] >> I.

[48:12] >> Opposed.

[48:14] We are adjourned.

[48:16] >> Great.

[48:20] » The preceding program was produced by

[48:24] CTV Community Television. CTV Community

[48:27] Television is supported by the cities of

[48:29] Marine City and St. Claire, East China

[48:32] Township, Carterville Township, and the

[48:35] East China School District.

Cottrellville Township Planning Commission Mgt., Wed. Sept 16, 2026

Transcript