[0:00] I call the meeting of the board of adjustments to order. We'll start with

[0:04] the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

[0:09] United States of America to the republic for which it stands, one nation under

[0:15] God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[0:20] » And we have a calling, official calling of the roll, please.

[0:32] our coffee.

[0:37] [clears throat] >> We can just have everybody announce

[0:40] themselves. >> That's okay.

[0:43] » Go ahead. You can start. Mike is here. >> Don Lynn. We have three uh members here

[0:52] which happens to be the whole board and that forms a quorum. So we will be uh

[0:57] con considering the first case and only one for tonight

[1:03] uh for the U brought before the board. It is file

[1:07] number BA25 010.

[1:12] The applicant is Vining Capital Properties 4 LLC

[1:17] and the location uh under consideration is 127 8th Avenue, Dayton, Kentucky.

[1:26] change from one non-conforming use as an applica as an attached two family unit

[1:33] to a detached to family unit with the second dwelling above the garage.

[1:41] Um, is there any particulars that you want to bring out? I I mean, we've got

[1:46] this here, but I didn't want to go directly into quest into questions

[1:50] unless you've got specific.

[1:55] » Okay.

[2:00] » Okay. >> So, what what we can do is um we can

[2:04] start off by allowing the board to after having read the appropriate doc document

[2:12] that was sent out ask any questions. U you're Mr. Viny.

[2:20] » Okay. uh we'll start by uh directing our questions towards you. If uh you're not

[2:27] the correct person, you can maybe steer us to the one and we'll go from there.

[2:33] Uh if any of the board members have a question right now, um I'll open it up

[2:40] and recognize whoever has the questions. >> Mike, Bob,

[2:45] » I'm good. I do have one on the staff comments kind

[2:50] of confused me a little bit which is we all know is easy to do but

[2:54] [clears throat] it's in the one two three fourth paragraph you're saying the

[2:58] KRS 10247 doesn't allow for the increase in

[3:03] density free dwelling single family home shall not be sub

[3:09] subset is a rental okay as a rental into two dwelling

[3:14] is recommended if the property is not actively used as a rental for more than

[3:18] one family. I used to refer to that of a single family.

[3:23] Can you give me a little more explain that a little bit more?

[3:26] » Well, the the basic um tenor of the paragraph is that [clears throat]

[3:32] zoning part of what zoning controls is density. So currently have a net two

[3:39] dwelling units, one of which is grandfathered and one of which is legal

[3:42] conforming. So in [clears throat] essentially doing by swapping it from a

[3:48] two unit to a a unit with an accessory unit. We're not changing the net uh

[3:54] amount of dwelling units or the net of density of the area

[4:04] » and we're not increasing it to three. >> That's correct.

[4:08] » Mhm.

[4:11] » Okay. >> I apologize. I didn't read this whole

[4:15] thing. I glanced at it on my email, but u this over garage, is that going to be

[4:20] rehabed? >> That's what's been rehabbed. Yes.

[4:24] » What kind of egress does it have? >> I think

[4:27] » I mean I see a door and nothing.

[4:32] » Just can you address that the >> design there?

[4:36] » Sure. So Jack Atlin on behalf of the Vining Group. So, I have and I don't

[4:40] know if it was in the staff report, but I do have um what was submitted for the

[4:47] building permit, which shows where all the ingress and egress is.

[4:52] » Okay, great. >> Um

[4:54] » is it still going to be used as a garage?

[4:56] » So, underneath >> So, here's the drawings of it. Um

[5:00] [clears throat] >> Oh, you know what? I knew I had actually

[5:04] brought copies if I may approach y'all. >> Certainly.

[5:07] » All right. Every city has different levels of formality.

[5:10] » Oh, I understand. We We don't stand high on formality.

[5:16] » Just want to be careful. >> I understand.

[5:20] » Okie do. >> So, this is the application that was

[5:24] made building permit. You can see that um and the building permit was granted.

[5:29] Uh this actually was kind of a snafu that popped up uh when we went for or

[5:33] when our client went for an occupancy permit. So you can see that the bottom

[5:36] floor is still going to be a garage. Uh operates as a garage. Uh you can enter

[5:40] there the stairs and then the second floor is the living space. And again,

[5:44] all that's happening here and and I don't want to talk over staff, but all

[5:47] that's really happening is it was an existing duplex and a garage that was

[5:50] behind that was kind of in bad shape. It was in rough shape. Um our client uh

[5:56] kind of had a little bit of a misunderstanding. He thought he was

[5:59] going to be able to have three units out here. uh made an application for a

[6:03] building permit, has already renovated and put a fair amount of time and money

[6:06] into that garage unit. We understand now, he understands now that obviously a

[6:12] this board doesn't have any ability to extend it beyond the two. And and all

[6:15] we're requesting is to basically take that duplex and to make it now one

[6:20] single family and to to have that non-conforming building now be garage

[6:25] with full residence above, which my understanding is that the building

[6:29] inspector, Mr. foul uh had no issues with ready to give an occupation permit

[6:34] other than the issue of it third dwelling that was I think a general

[6:40] misunderstanding. [cough and clears throat]

[6:43] » Now I understand from what I've read in here and what you've been saying that um

[6:51] the uh this new renovation is done. >> It is correct. It's I I think you have

[6:58] some finishing touches. Yeah.

[7:09] » So you ran new electric out there and water and all that stuff from what? The

[7:17] existing first front building. Okay.

[7:23] » Okay. And

[7:26] we weren't trying to go around this process. He went to the city, applied

[7:30] for a building permit, it was granted. It just, like I said, was a little bit

[7:34] of a snafu on on three units versus two, >> but we're just wanting to

[7:39] » Yeah. So, let me get back to the front uh house, which I think you can answer

[7:46] it. I read through your statements. >> Yeah. And basically what I'm

[7:51] understanding is, okay, now instead of getting $2,500 for the front one, you're

[7:58] going to change that and you're only going to have one family in there.

[8:04] » And so even though the the [clears throat] house is set up to have

[8:08] two families and everything you need to have because there must be a kitchen

[8:13] upstairs, >> correct? And you have all separate

[8:17] utilities upstairs. >> Uh,

[8:21] » yes. No, maybe. >> Uh, electric. Yes.

[8:23] » You have electric. Okay. >> Yeah.

[8:26] » Um, and the water comes off of them. But you me are you metered separately on

[8:31] that >> on the water?

[8:33] » Yeah. >> Just one.

[8:35] » So if you had rented it out as two parties,

[8:39] you they would have paid you for the water bill or how would that have

[8:42] worked? >> I take care of the water. Okay. Yeah.

[8:45] And I plan to keep taking care of the water bill.

[8:48] » Okay. Yes, sir. >> If you're smart, you'll have that water

[8:50] separated into two meters. Believe me, >> they won't let me.

[8:53] » Well, no, he can't now. No, he can't now because he wants one unit.

[8:57] » Well, they they said I can submeter it and keep track of it myself, but SD1 and

[9:01] uh Northern Kentucky said we're all trying to get it on one. So, which I

[9:05] allow. >> Yeah. So, are you going to remodel the

[9:08] upstairs to to remove what would have normally

[9:14] been the kitchen into something else? >> Um, I wasn't planning on it.

[9:21] » Well, here's my dilemma. If you're saying to us we ain't going to put three

[9:27] tenants in there, >> right?

[9:29] » But the second floor of the house is still set up for that.

[9:35] We have no way of knowing whether you decreased it or you just told us you

[9:41] would and then later on because everything's a possible and I'm not

[9:45] saying you'll do it it would happen immediately but say you sell the

[9:49] building >> now we're back in the same dilemma of

[9:54] you can't have two and yet the house is set up for two.

[9:57] » Yeah. So I I'll jump in there. Okay. >> I mean, obviously, if this board

[10:01] approves this as a uh variance, you're going to make it very clear as a part of

[10:05] your findings that there can only be two units on this property. Okay?

[10:09] » Right? >> So, obviously, it then becomes a code

[10:11] enforcement issue. If there is any evidence of a third family in there, and

[10:15] it's not going to be hard, in my opinion, from a code enforcement

[10:18] perspective to determine there's going to be a third family in there, and then

[10:21] he can be cited. I Yeah, >> I mean, I don't Mr. Evansson, if you

[10:25] want to weigh in any more on that. I I I guess my thought is is I think the

[10:28] purview of this board is to determine whether this is a reasonable

[10:34] um variance to maintain a non-conforming use. I think as far as enforcement of

[10:39] that being only two families, I think that's a code enforcement issue outside

[10:43] of the purview of this board. >> It it is, but

[10:47] » you don't want to set yourself up for failure. I understand.

[10:49] » Yes. That's that's really where we're coming from is we get we leave the

[10:54] enforcement people with a inability to do their job because how would anybody

[11:01] ever know that there were two tenants in that building and one tenant in the back

[11:07] building? There's would be no vis probably no

[11:10] visible signs that would dictate that. >> Well, maybe this will help us a

[11:16] clarification and just some general questions. Um, have have you removed

[11:21] like the the identity of the second unit that's on that's in [clears throat]

[11:26] that? Meaning like have you taken out the kitchens for example? The kitchen

[11:30] the second >> I have I haven't done any of that

[11:32] because there's people living. >> Okay. Yeah. So,

[11:35] » how many people are living there? Two families.

[11:38] » Well, no, just one one person each. They're just single. So, one person

[11:42] down, one person up. Okay. So, right now it is being lived in by two separate

[11:47] entities. >> Correct. But one of those tenants wants

[11:50] to move to the the project we're doing garage and

[11:54] » Okay. >> And her lease the the downstairs is up

[11:57] in February. So, it's good timing on my end to get him to the back to offer her

[12:03] the whole house. Uh and if not, I find another tenant. I was going to do one

[12:09] lease. I I know what your concern is, but

[12:11] » Yeah. And I just bought the property, so I intend to hold it.

[12:15] » Yeah. And and I I understand that, you know, the intent here is one property,

[12:21] front property, one family, the back property, one family. Whether it's a

[12:25] single individual or a family, probably have to be a no more than two.

[12:30] The the problem is that if we grant this, how are we giving the

[12:37] code enforcement people the ability to differentiate whether you have one lease

[12:44] or two leases in the front building while still having a lease in the back

[12:49] building and in the GU and converted garage. You

[12:54] see what I'm saying? Well, >> there's there's no way e externally to

[12:58] tell that. >> But what if I mean what if in my own

[13:01] home residence I wanted to have three kitchens? That doesn't mean I've got

[13:06] three families living in there, right? >> I understand.

[13:08] » So, I mean, it's >> But see, we we aren't talking tonight

[13:13] about your family, your house. >> Well, it is.

[13:16] » We're talking Huh. >> This is my property. This is my house.

[13:19] » Well, and it is, and I understand that, >> right? But at this time it is rent all

[13:25] rental property. >> It is

[13:27] » and so you know the opening question would is always going to be

[13:32] in code enforcement which is what brought you here.

[13:36] How are they to differentiate when you have complied from when you have not

[13:41] complied since there's no external way if you leave that kitchen in?

[13:47] » Well, one point of clarification. It wasn't code enforcement that brought us

[13:50] here. It was the building inspector when he came for the occupancy permit saying

[13:55] you couldn't grant the occupancy permit because it was non-conforming. Um I I

[14:00] guess what assurances can you provide them that you will only have one family

[14:04] confront you after you that person? >> I mean I guess from a paperwork

[14:09] standpoint one lease. I mean that was the intent [clears throat]

[14:12] one. >> Okay.

[14:15] Um I this is a first for me so I don't know what other insuranceances I mean

[14:21] » obviously everyone respects their own privacy right

[14:24] » sure absolutely >> I wouldn't want someone coming into my

[14:27] house three kitchen and I don't think that's what you're getting at um

[14:32] » well but as long as there are two kitchens in that front in that home

[14:37] » right >> we have a situation where at any point

[14:40] in time there could be two different tenants

[14:45] Mr. Chair, I have a few comments if you don't mind.

[14:47] » Fine. >> Um, in terms of zoning, we don't limit

[14:50] the number of kitchens that you can have in place.

[14:53] » Um, so there's a couple things. Uh, and I'm kind of go through a few bullets. In

[14:58] the city of Dayton, you have a rental license.

[15:00] » So, the city won't give them a separate license for the upstairs. Uh, another

[15:05] thing is with this decision that you make, I record a land use restriction on

[15:08] the deed. So, it sticks with the land. Another thing that's kind of maybe a

[15:12] little bit outside of the box thinking that is the accessory dwelling unit

[15:16] concept is becoming much more po popular. So not only are you creating an

[15:20] accessory dwelling unit on this property, [clears throat] but in effect

[15:23] that upstairs can be seen as an accessory dwelling unit. There might be

[15:27] a situation where you've got an aging relative or an adult child that wants

[15:32] some independent living, but it's all under one lease. And this this layout

[15:35] would work out really nicely for that particular type of customer because they

[15:38] do have their own um kitchen, bathroom, entrance, but it's still under one

[15:44] lease. Technically, an accessory dwelling unit, which is a single family

[15:48] house with an accessory dwelling unit. So, from a zoning perspective, I'm not

[15:52] too concerned about this getting outside of our control because there will be

[15:57] [clears throat] paper trail, like I said, the land use restriction and there

[16:00] will also be the rental license that they'll have to get to rent it out.

[16:09] So the my other question is okay you you've rehabbed this uh carriage house

[16:16] and um I'm very familiar with that because when I was in college I lived in

[16:20] a carriage house in Columbus, Ohio. But the thing that caught me about this was

[16:27] I saw the pictures that you that were submitted and from what your detail

[16:34] tells me is every you've rehabbed the place.

[16:38] What does it look like now? I mean, you said it was pretty dilapidated before

[16:43] you got started. So, I'm kind of curious, for lack of a

[16:48] better phrase, as to what it looks like now as Have you redone the outside also,

[16:54] by the way? >> Yes, sir.

[16:56] » Okay. >> Can I approach?

[16:57] » Sure. >> Oh, absolutely. Come forward.

[17:01] » Oh, yeah. I was just noticing a moth. It's just odd to see a big moth like

[17:05] that this time of [laughter] year. >> Cold weather drove him in.

[17:16] Okay.

[17:25] » Okay. Unfortunately,

[17:28] that is a new garage door. >> And is that a key or an activated?

[17:37] I I wondered about that cuz I figured nobody's going to park in that garage if

[17:41] you can't activate the garage door from the outside when you drive up.

[17:46] » You raised a roof or was it always? >> Uh, it was always

[17:51] windows up there.

[17:57] » Okay. >> Do you have any pictures of the I'm

[18:00] sorry, I knocked it off. Can you see pictures of the inside?

[18:04] » Did you actually do the work or myself.

[18:09] » Okay.

[18:13] » When you say I know you said this is your part-time job, you have a full-time

[18:17] job. >> Okay.

[18:21] » And so, how does that work when you have a crew and you're working a full-time

[18:25] job? >> That's my wife.

[18:27] » Oh, okay. >> Look at my hands. I just came from

[18:33] » Oh, I'm hardwork. >> Oh.

[18:37] Well, the fact that you've done all this in that amount of time.

[18:44] » So is now that's a picture. Is that as far as you've gotten now?

[18:48] » I haven't got any pictures. >> Okay.

[18:52] » Okay. So when when this is all finished, you'll have a bedroom, a kitchen,

[18:57] any is is that the extent of the space available? [clears throat]

[19:00] » Studio. Yes, sir. >> Kind of a studio room.

[19:03] » Bathroom. Kitchen. >> Okay. Well, yeah. Bathroom. Obviously,

[19:06] we have to have that. >> Okay.

[19:09] » So, basically, all of these together adds up to three

[19:15] bedrooms.

[19:18] » Well, the two two bedrooms in the first in the front house and one bedroom in

[19:23] the back. >> Three beds. Yes.

[19:25] » Yeah. Oh, that's what I meant. I didn't mean to imply it was anything other than

[19:29] that. >> Okay. And so when this thing is all done

[19:36] and you're going to go out and u you know rent it. I know you put into your

[19:43] thing here that the original plan was that the front the house would have had

[19:51] two units one for 1300 and one for 1,200.

[19:56] And now you've got the back unit and the combined front unit.

[20:00] So, the bottom line is you're going to what? Have to take the front unit and

[20:08] have less than $2,500 because you probably won't get $2,500

[20:14] rental for that. >> Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

[20:16] » So, the intent was to have three units, right?

[20:19] » You understood? >> 2500 plus probably like,000 or 1,100 for

[20:24] the >> for the back of the garage, right?

[20:26] » Okay. So that would have totaled 36, 37, >> right?

[20:30] » I think the front house I'll probably ask 18 or 19 just depending on,

[20:37] » you know, >> for the whole thing.

[20:38] » For the whole thing. >> Okay.

[20:40] » And then for the back unit, probably 11 or 12 at this point. So I'm getting less

[20:45] rent. >> I was going to say this this is not

[20:50] » worked as well. You're going to get more rent,

[20:53] » correct? But not as much as the three units might have garnered for you as a

[20:58] separate >> hurt even more if we don't go forward

[21:01] with this. >> Excuse me.

[21:03] » I mean it's it's it's even more painful if he can't put anybody in the back.

[21:06] » Oh, I understand. >> Yeah.

[21:08] » You know, cuz he you're you're dealing with a house that's somewhere between

[21:12] 150 and 125 years old. That's when that neighborhood was built.

[21:17] » 1865 house.

[21:20] » Okay. Even older than I thought it was. >> I don't know. I was going for 1875, but

[21:25] okay. >> I don't think the garage is that old. I

[21:27] know it's not because it's different stone, but the original house is old

[21:32] stone foundation.

[21:36] » Is that That's pretty amazing. That means that the first the h the carriage

[21:40] house was actually used for carriages. >> It's a beautiful property. I'll tour you

[21:45] around [laughter] anytime anytime you want.

[21:48] » Uh I I understand. And it's u I've been down 8th Street a lot of I haven't paid

[21:53] particular attention to that uh house but I know a lot of houses in the in

[21:59] that area have been upgraded and I think that's wonderful. So u yeah that kind of

[22:05] answered all my questions. Is anybody else

[22:08] » I just got most evidence of the case but you paid 2.95

[22:12] for it? >> Yes sir.

[22:14] » What do you think it's going to appraise for our computer?

[22:18] forunately not as much as I put into town.

[22:21] » Uh probably

[22:25] » not bad on a probably 30 by 100 lot.

[22:29] » Yeah. >> But it's it's you have my word. We have

[22:32] not spared any expense. I mean I have >> I I could I

[22:36] » qualified if I didn't know. >> You don't have off street parking do

[22:38] you? >> Uh we don't have off.

[22:41] » I mean how do they >> other than the garage? How how how do

[22:45] they driveway looked at the house to the

[22:48] right of it? >> Uh yes.

[22:50] » Okay. That's how they get Okay. Okay. >> But you know they can park in the garage

[22:54] to be fire rateated the whole >> Okay.

[22:56] » So you do have all street parking. >> Yes.

[22:58] » Okay. >> Yeah.

[23:00] » For that one. And then the the person that does the front will park on the

[23:05] street. >> Which is the way it's been for ever and

[23:07] ever. >> I've got two of them parking on the

[23:09] street now. >> Okay.

[23:12] » Yeah. Yeah. It may go down to one or it may still be two

[23:16] » depending on >> depending on you have two bedrooms,

[23:19] » right? >> You know, you might have a mother,

[23:22] father, and a >> right

[23:24] » teenage son or something. >> But it will look like you can even park

[23:27] off the alley in the back, too, if you want to, I guess.

[23:29] » Yeah, you could. It's right next to the carriage park.

[23:32] » Okay. I mean, that's if I was going to pay somewhere, $1,900$2,000 a month, I

[23:37] would >> I would expect off street park to be

[23:39] honest with you, you know. I don't know that I've thought of that. I like the

[23:44] idea of it. I just don't know that. >> Actually, I know I just don't have any

[23:48] space. >> I say purely irre

[23:51] just >> Well, right next to the carriage house

[23:53] if you put in a say an asphalt pad >> could, but it's all raised.

[23:59] » Yeah. >> Yeah. I couldn't tell from the pictures.

[24:02] Okay. >> It was a mess getting an excavator back

[24:04] there. I had to knock down a wall to dig the trench. So,

[24:07] » I have no >> Yeah, I don't either, Michael.

[24:11] Okay. If there's uh nothing more uh before the board, we would enter

[24:15] entertain a motion. >> Make a motion to approve the request to

[24:21] change from a non-performing use to as a attached two family to a

[24:27] detached two family unit with two dwelling by the garage. Then the

[24:31] conditions do I need to go through all those? The

[24:35] one condition I think we do want to make sure is on record is that if you ever

[24:39] continue If the dwelling unit is discontinued, I think what is it? 50% of

[24:44] the value is lost, then it has to revert back to single family. [snorts]

[24:51] » The lapidated again. >> Yeah, that would be.

[24:55] » Yeah, a fire would be the only thing that comes to mind that would decrease

[25:00] the availability of the unit. >> I'll second

[25:05] motion has been for made and seconded. Uh, what's the vote? I guess I can

[25:11] already know. >> I don't vote unless there's a tie and

[25:15] there's no tie. [laughter] >> Let me resend my vote. I just want to

[25:21] see a I've never seen a piece. >> All right. So b so based upon that your

[25:27] uh uh application is approved and you will have a uh two dwelling one tenant

[25:34] each dwelling on that property at that address and we appreciate you taking the

[25:41] time to come down and see us. >> Seriously swing by and I'll show you

[25:44] around. It's a beautiful property. >> I I need to drive down I don't normally

[25:48] drive down alleys but I need to probably go drive down that alley just for

[25:53] » Yeah. Thank you all. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to you.

[25:57] » See you. >> Have a good night.

[25:59] » Merry Christmas. >> How's How's your wife? Sorry. I said hi.

[26:03] Hey, man. >> Okay. So, the only other thing is if

[26:06] there's any old business, anything. Anybody? I don't have any.

[26:10] » Just us on. That's all. >> Yeah. The only thing that's old is us.

[26:14] » You too, pal. Just old business. >> Yeah. He's creeping up on 70.

[26:19] » Wow. >> And I'm creeping up on 80. What are you

[26:22] doing? I'm 78. I'll be 79 in March. >> Yeah, I'll be 79 in uh June.

[26:29] » I'm a little bit older. >> Yeah, just a couple. This is

[26:31] » There you go. >> But but I still hold the record up in

[26:34] the culdeac. I'm the oldest. >> Oh, are you?

[26:36] » Yes, I am. >> But if you come up then I'm second.

[26:40] » Yeah. >> Well, I'm right there at the quarter, so

[26:43] you could almost include. >> Yeah. Well, that's probably one time.

[26:46] Well, I guess you could be included. I said, "I really don't care." [laughter]

[26:51] You're those you're one of those Lincoln rotors.

[26:53] » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, bikers.

[26:59] » Uh yes, I am making a motion. U seconded. Old

December 17, 2025 Board of Adjustments Meeting

Transcript