[0:00] and a little bit past mount Olive So that's 20.

[0:05] That's 20 lights.

[0:06] Yes.

[0:06] So the other 16 lights are already part of the contract.

[0:10] Okay Some lights and six lights at the intersection.

[0:12] So sections are proposed to be lit.

[0:15] So that the total is 36 lights.

[0:18] The total lights for the entire trail Yeah would be 36 lights.

[0:22] Okay Thank you for Can you confirm

[0:25] for me like where it says number to furnish bollard light is.

[0:28] So that's different to the 16 that

[0:30] are the taller lights Correct.

[0:33] The these are the pedestrian lights.

[0:37] Pedestrian lights are about 14 to 16ft tall.

[0:42] But for the ones that we're proposing are 14ft tall.

[0:45] OK And that's 20 lights.

[0:47] All right Councilmember Garcia and it's the exact same stove

[0:51] of the 16 that are part of this, correct What information change?

[0:56] Because I think last time we had we have the 20.

[1:00] We're talking about the 20 still is it the laborer itself?

[1:04] That's here?

[1:05] What information?

[1:06] So we took the we took the unit prices

[1:09] from the from the contract that we have now and kind of

[1:13] took those numbers as our cost estimate as opposed to the cost

[1:18] estimate that we had received from south coast lighting

[1:20] as, as a separate just separate contractor doing the work So we

[1:26] we took the unit prices that were given

[1:29] to us by the current contractor that we have And we just kind

[1:33] of to do it as an analysis of like, you know, apples

[1:36] to apples because in the next, in the next few slides,

[1:39] I would show you how we did in an a cost analysis

[1:42] for the other for the bollard lights as well as mirror family.

[1:47] Did you have a question?

[1:49] Yes, thank you Could you just go back to that picture Okay

[1:58] So these light poles are approximately 100ft apart,

[2:03] is that right?

[2:04] The the way that the that the calculation

[2:06] was made in order to create a safety lighting situation?

[2:11] Yes, it would be they would be spaced between 100 to 150ft.

[2:17] Okay Now, where are the bollards We haven't gotten

[2:24] to that part yet Oh, okay.

[2:26] Well, in that.

[2:27] So this is a rendering of the pedestrian lighting

[2:30] that we had originally talked about

[2:32] and that that staff recommended.

[2:34] And the last meeting.

[2:35] So part of the request was that we provided pictures

[2:38] and renderings of what it would look like placed and the trails.

[2:42] So that you could have a better visual of that.

[2:45] And that's what we're presenting here.

[2:47] So I'm going to show you renderings for the other ones

[2:50] as well.

[2:51] OK.

[2:51] One other question Crossing over the bike path at Mount Olive,

[2:57] you have the one pole.

[2:59] I'm talking about going north.

[3:01] You have the one pole there.

[3:03] That's really good at lighting up just the crosswalk now.

[3:07] Now it.

[3:08] It's seems to me you've got to have

[3:10] about 30ft either side of where people

[3:14] enter that intersect section.

[3:16] How will that be lit.

[3:18] Right.

[3:18] So there there is another proposed light

[3:21] across the street from that.

[3:22] So now you'll have lights on both sides of the street

[3:25] and then the next lights would be placed

[3:29] on on both sides of the trail like moving

[3:32] moving in both directions.

[3:33] OK.

[3:34] But will they be 100ft down?

[3:37] They could be they could be placed a little bit

[3:41] closer to create more light.

[3:43] And that general intersection area.

[3:44] And then from that point, there would be 100ft.

[3:48] Okay.

[3:48] And the reason I say this again, I cross it more than anybody

[3:52] does.

[3:53] And I even had a mobile workshop with Larry and Steve Hernandez

[3:57] so they could see it.

[3:58] People wear dark clothing and it's the the road is lit.

[4:05] but it's on the other side.

[4:07] And so I just I'm right that that was definitely

[4:11] part of the assessment when it was considered that that

[4:14] was one of the dark areas.

[4:17] So it.

[4:17] We go all the way from vineyard to past mount Olive And so about

[4:23] 700ft west of Mount Olive OK.

[4:27] Thank you.

[4:27] Out of the 20.

[4:28] How many Just in that section from vineyard to Olive

[4:32] it would be about 20.

[4:33] It would be about 20 just for that one.

[4:36] I Do have any more questions before we can

[4:37] move on to Stephanie Do these lights

[4:39] turn off pedestrian lighting?

[4:41] Are they solar?

[4:42] Are they are they automated?

[4:45] Are they.

[4:45] These are electric lights.

[4:47] And the way that they're being requested

[4:50] is to have an U.V. cell.

[4:52] So then that would be turned on when

[4:54] lights when the sun goes down.

[4:56] And then they they were turned back off.

[4:59] But there is an option to put a timer on it.

[5:03] If you want it to turn off at a certain time

[5:05] and it would have a clock or if you wanted to,

[5:08] to turn on at a specific time and turn off it So

[5:11] there's like a timer that you could set when to turn on.

[5:13] And when they have the capability.

[5:15] Yes.

[5:16] OK All right.

[5:18] I think we're good to keep hearing some more.

[5:20] Thank you And so here's the one of the other options,

[5:26] the electric bollard lights.

[5:28] These would be tied to electric power.

[5:33] This is a rendering of what they would look like if placed

[5:36] along the trail And then this is a nighttime rendering

[5:43] of those same bollards And where are those same place?

[5:54] Excuse me, but we've already got the 14 foot lights.

[5:59] These are these are option.

[6:00] That's option one with the 14 foot

[6:02] and these are the ballot bollards that we also use right

[6:08] And so implementation of these lights placed

[6:12] in the same location as of where we were proposing the 14

[6:16] foot poles would require them to be

[6:20] about ten feet on center space.

[6:23] And so we calculated that to be about 270 bollards from vineyard

[6:29] up to that at that same location And so

[6:34] here is the same breakdown again I wanted to give you

[6:37] all an apples to apples comparison

[6:40] So the conduit cost is the same.

[6:43] It would just be the cost of the bollards themselves.

[6:49] And then the install option as well Installation part

[6:52] is the mobilization And the mobilization.

[6:54] Right.

[6:55] Is that the installation?

[6:57] Can you please repeat that?

[6:58] The mobilization and demobilization

[7:01] is that what is considered the installation costs for this

[7:05] It would be part of the installation cost yes.

[7:07] So the mobilization and demobilize zation typically

[7:12] includes procurement of shipment and purchase

[7:18] saying staff time from the contract actors.

[7:21] This is where they throw in all of their extra costs

[7:24] that would that would be required for for having

[7:29] a contract with with the city.

[7:31] The actual installation and the coding is is line item three,

[7:35] which we've put it at $6,500 because they would require

[7:39] footings and and digging for those footings and then and then

[7:44] installing them and tapping into the id,

[7:47] the electric all how deep are these putting for for a bollard

[7:57] Two feet and so another another option for also this is also

[8:08] an electric bollard but this is a concrete bollard because we

[8:12] talked about just durability and how strong a bowler would be out

[8:19] in the in the open like this.

[8:20] So we also got costs for a concrete bollard

[8:23] so they're going to cost for that is slightly higher

[8:26] at $1,150 and this is it would look something like the one

[8:30] in this image And so these that's the cost breakdown

[8:36] for that same one And here are other examples where these are

[8:44] not like renderings, but they're just

[8:46] images of of implementation of these

[8:51] of these types of bollards.

[8:52] And at Irvine work walkway Another one

[8:57] at the fire station at irvine and then this one in an HOA.

[9:04] And irvine.

[9:05] So these are all electrical bollards.

[9:07] And you can see the spacing, how it's, you know just so you have

[9:10] an idea of what these bollards look like So other lighting

[9:17] solutions that were explored and that were brought up as

[9:21] well during our last meeting, we're sold solar border

[9:24] lights and solar lighting.

[9:26] I did not provide any images for these,

[9:30] but they're similar to the regular bollard light, how

[9:33] they would look and the lighting consultant south coast lighting

[9:37] does not recommend the solar bollards.

[9:39] And for this trail, based on limited sun exposure and battery

[9:45] life, significant being reduced, resulting in increased

[9:48] maintenance costs and therefore, this

[9:50] was not this was not an option that they recommend

[9:54] for solar lighting It would require additional analysis

[9:59] to determine the placement and the size of the poles

[10:02] and footings and things like that.

[10:04] So we did not we were not able to provide a cost estimate

[10:07] for that at this point we are requesting

[10:14] the Council to provide direction on how to proceed.

[10:19] Either proceed with a change order to the Donald m Bernice

[10:22] Watson Multi-Use pathway improvements project

[10:25] or the installation of additional pedestrian lights

[10:28] along the trail within the identified dark

[10:30] areas in the amount of $500,000 or designate

[10:34] another option that.

[10:42] Does anyone any questions, comments or All right,

[10:46] everyone let's go.

[10:53] Councilmember lewis, are i I mean,

[11:01] I don't even know where to start.

[11:03] Five.

[11:04] That's that's a lot of money for some light

[11:09] But we need them I I just.

[11:15] You know what mayor goes on what else?

[11:17] I just got that got us Take this.

[11:21] I got to swallow this big pill already

[11:26] Council or mayor pro tem.

[11:28] Thank you.

[11:29] Thank you, Mayor.

[11:30] And sorry for being late I was actually

[11:32] stuck in traffic in Arcadia Nonetheless,

[11:35] I appreciate this analysis.

[11:37] And so on.

[11:38] I think the cost of of putting a two

[11:44] foot foundation in at $6,500 each

[11:50] is Gillis That's what you said.

[11:58] I'm certain that there are many ways

[12:01] that we can go in and make this cheaper if we what

[12:07] is the timeline on this thing?

[12:08] This is not on the critical path in have week on any information

[12:14] in regards to this solar power she just presented that what

[12:20] there was not much on there the information

[12:26] that I provided on solar bollards

[12:27] is that they were not recommended

[12:28] by the by the south coast.

[12:32] Yes based on based on the longevity and the battery life

[12:38] and the closeness of placement, would it

[12:43] be possible for my colleagues, perhaps to table.

[12:48] This in a way to perhaps a week or two more?

[12:55] This is a full disclosure and we have to do this in public

[13:00] Is that Brian and I, we actually a with the manufacturers

[13:06] of these light ballers and LEDs, they are currently

[13:11] providing some kind of renderings,

[13:13] but I'm not sure what the status is in the designs and so on.

[13:18] And perhaps we can have a different point of view,

[13:24] especially the pricing wise, having just one person telling

[13:27] me that this is going to be $6,500 per each baller I find

[13:31] it to be very inconceivable all $2.4

[13:34] million to dig two foot hole.

[13:40] I'm just not for it.

[13:41] I, I would appreciate it if we can perhaps look for other bids,

[13:49] and so on.

[13:50] Just to have that interoperability.

[13:53] So just to clarify the cost.

[13:55] I'm sorry the cost, the estimate that was provided

[13:58] is a cost estimate.

[14:00] And it is not a quote from a contract for at this time.

[14:04] This was for another estimating.

[14:07] I think that's estimate is certainly

[14:10] exceeding what I think our my colleagues

[14:17] I'm just speaking on my own.

[14:18] But i think this is pretty extravagant price

[14:22] tag for something like this.

[14:24] And i did talk to some of the manufacturers

[14:29] and they did a walkthrough on it.

[14:31] With that said so in the beginning of these these policy

[14:39] solar panels yes, it is true that they need to go and be

[14:42] fully charge at eight hours.

[14:44] But later on they can't or very susceptible

[14:49] And it's possible to do it in 3, 2 4 hours.

[14:53] And so on So with that said, I don't have enough information

[14:58] in having $6,000 $6,500 for a two foot aisle, I'll take

[15:06] that job to take that.

[15:09] I think we need to go and table it just a little bit longer

[15:13] or if if my colleagues and so I sat

[15:17] in on a meeting with Councilmember Kang

[15:19] that he set up with Deco lighting last week

[15:22] They stated that it would take them 24 to 48 hours

[15:26] to get this rendering and some prices.

[15:29] I reached out to them yesterday, and they responded.

[15:32] They were still looking into it.

[15:34] So we have nothing from them.

[15:36] So I have no idea what they can or can't

[15:38] do as related to this project.

[15:42] If we stand here today and obviously council can table it

[15:46] if we table it, that this won't be a change

[15:49] order to what we're doing right now,

[15:50] it will be a separate project.

[15:53] We will have to go out and go through that process So yes,

[15:57] there there is some timing to this,

[16:00] but that's not to say that we can't do that to add to this,

[16:06] there is the potential since we did request from Senator Rubio

[16:10] 300,000 for a lighting project.

[16:12] It looks promising.

[16:14] Obviously nothing has been signed by the governor

[16:17] And so until that happens we we very could get 300,000,

[16:23] but we just as easily could not unless it's signed.

[16:26] But I just wanted to throw that out there on the table.

[16:28] If there's nothing to do for myself because like I'm with I'm

[16:34] Kevin Parker with South Coast Lighting,

[16:36] we don't do any of the installation,

[16:38] we just provide the lights.

[16:39] But we we did Photometric reports on the bollards.

[16:44] And so when you saw that rendering

[16:45] that was a bollard that was basically

[16:47] five feet from the path and the bus or bollards three feet tall

[16:53] and having been in lighting for ten years,

[16:57] the lower the light is, the less it's going to throw.

[17:00] And typically in a ball or two, you also want to throw out

[17:03] So the taller lights there's 14 footers

[17:06] are throwing side to side.

[17:08] The bollards are going to have to throw directly out to even

[17:11] get to the path And even then when you get to the edge

[17:15] of the path you're looking I'll first of all,

[17:17] talking for candles It's about 2.1ft candles, which is no.

[17:22] So the example is full moon.

[17:25] So that's basically the light you're getting at the last one

[17:28] third of the path outside of 1/3 of the path

[17:31] where the bollards would be.

[17:34] So again the if you really want to light the path,

[17:38] you want to go with the 14 foot and the other company

[17:42] that you're talking to about with the bollards,

[17:44] I wouldn't just have them do a rendering.

[17:47] I'd absolutely 100% ask for a photo report

[17:50] because it uses specific file called an IRS file

[17:54] And that's how the light performs

[17:56] using different like different types of light patterns.

[18:00] I'll put it that way Instead saying type one, type 2 type 3.

[18:03] But there's different types of light distribution patterns.

[18:07] And I 100% would ask for that.

[18:09] And tell them how far back you want the bollard from the path

[18:13] because we did all that for you know, for Stephanie

[18:17] and the bollards just weren't cutting it

[18:19] even when we had it five feet from the path

[18:21] to get it to light the path, you have

[18:23] to have it right on the path.

[18:24] You have them all lined up against the path.

[18:26] So that's all on the solar bollards

[18:29] If I were about one fourth, the light output

[18:34] as the grid tied bollards now that's up That's

[18:39] all I have to say.

[18:40] Thank you.

[18:42] And I did remember something else additionally,

[18:44] the deco lighting stated that bollards would be spaced

[18:48] 6 to 8ft apart in this plan.

[18:51] It's ten feet.

[18:51] So it's I don't think we're trying to add

[18:54] bollards potentially on this.

[18:57] Obviously, it's the cost that's hanging up council

[18:59] and but we have no idea what other manufacturers are

[19:02] would charge us per light and installation.

[19:05] Yeah, I strongly suggest that even for my company out there,

[19:11] I get at least three different estimates or quotes are OEM

[19:16] and whatever.

[19:17] And so on I'm not going to go in and heavily reliant on just one,

[19:21] especially with a price tag of $2.4 million

[19:29] and some member friendly.

[19:31] Thank you.

[19:32] Sorry to me the lighting is so much better

[19:40] with those 14 foot lights, if that's if what we're seeing

[19:46] is reality.

[19:48] Yes I also look at those being 100ft apart

[19:54] as opposed to 8 or 10ft apart.

[19:58] I'm just our liability There is going to be that much

[20:02] greater to say nothing of.

[20:04] Even if we get a lower cost on this it would

[20:09] be 500,000 versus say 50%.

[20:11] And we cut the bollard estimate by 50%.

[20:17] That's still going to be 2 to 2 and a 1/2 times

[20:21] higher than the 14 foot lights.

[20:26] With those 14 foot lights working of liable bility

[20:31] is there with that And by that I mean

[20:36] are there going to be can people climb up

[20:41] to the top of those poles and rip something off of their

[20:45] that would be something they can use,

[20:49] whether it's some sort of metal or something like that.

[20:56] I just I want this thing to last because goodness knows,

[21:02] we see a lot of these things that they put them in

[21:06] and then they're gone Yeah, correct.

[21:09] Well, I'm going to answer your question based on several years

[21:12] ago, we well, I just used Menards

[21:15] because you talked about earlier at the intersection at all.

[21:18] And we put a light on one side.

[21:19] The reason the light was on one side of time

[21:21] is that's where we had electric, you know,

[21:22] so but that particular light has been there the entire time

[21:25] and there's been no damage to guarantee that somebody is

[21:28] not going to mess with stuff.

[21:30] But I will tell you that we have some example

[21:32] out there where that particular light has been has been,

[21:34] has been fine.

[21:35] So you know, and any will be doing taking security measures

[21:42] on anything, the lighting that was approved

[21:44] as part of the contract.

[21:45] And that's getting built that's there's

[21:46] lots of security measures that that's what that whole thing is

[21:49] change with lighting.

[21:49] So much in the last few years.

[21:51] But i don't think that's the picture itself is is any more

[21:56] risk than anything we currently have in the city

[21:58] For example, down on Evergreen, we

[21:59] have pedestrian lights along Evergreen that will

[22:02] hopefully those will be back soon.

[22:04] But those we we had a problem with those

[22:06] we're in the process of fixing that.

[22:08] At one of your last meetings we the pullback

[22:12] covers that or we could take care of that problem.

[22:13] So I think that it i think we've planned for that as best we

[22:19] can And then my final question is, Brian you talked

[22:23] about the senators maybe being able to help us out

[22:30] with something like this one.

[22:32] Are we going to know about that The last comment I received

[22:40] from them was I'll request go to the governor

[22:43] by the end of the month.

[22:44] So we should know at the end of the month Geez,

[22:48] you think he'd have something more important

[22:50] on his plate or 300,000?

[22:54] I think he has a lot of important things on his plate.

[22:56] Right.

[22:56] I think they're budgeting right now.

[22:58] I think my question is just so I saw

[23:01] the light in the original sample you gave us,

[23:04] and it looks really well lit.

[23:05] It's I'm going to guess it's some form of air or something

[23:08] And then the next one is like 100 octave darker.

[23:12] Is that a pretty true The idea of what

[23:15] the difference will be between the 14 foot and the bollards

[23:20] Can you repeat that again?

[23:21] So like, okay, let's go up to the if you don't mind,

[23:23] I'm pulling up the report, so let's go to the beginning

[23:25] where you're showing us the sample of the Not that one.

[23:29] Next one.

[23:29] Okay So that looks amazingly lit and very, very beautiful.

[23:34] So then we go down a couple more slides to the bollard sample

[23:38] and it's completely darker.

[23:40] Is that a pretty.

[23:41] And so is that a pretty accurate rendition

[23:43] of the light difference that we would see having

[23:46] run the Photometric reports?

[23:48] Yeah, that's pretty close It probably

[23:52] would be more gradual as it gets to the edge of the path

[23:55] and it'll barely be it.

[23:57] The edge of the path, it'll be like full moon, right?

[23:59] So picture the last third of that path

[24:01] under a full moon light.

[24:02] That's how the edge would look.

[24:04] OK, I just want to make sure like that that is.

[24:07] It's very much okay.

[24:08] And then my other question, Stephanie, is if we like,

[24:11] let's just say I'm just trying to make

[24:12] sure I have an understanding of all of our options right?

[24:14] If we were let's just say we were to go with the bollards,

[24:17] right?

[24:17] That's still doesn't we're still getting those original six

[24:21] or whatever that are in the regular plan that are 14.

[24:23] So that's probably not considered in this picture

[24:25] that there will be some sporadic 14 footers that

[24:28] are already in plan Correct.

[24:29] That they're not in this like they're not in this area at all.

[24:33] Right.

[24:34] They're not in this area.

[24:35] I just like to have like a full idea of what I'm looking

[24:37] at because, you know for me, like I, you know,

[24:40] aesthetically we bollard versus the tall ones

[24:43] I'm not super concerned.

[24:44] But I don't know the rest of council has different ideas.

[24:47] And that's fine.

[24:48] I like the look of that first one.

[24:50] Lighting wise.

[24:50] But that's just what I'm being presented

[24:54] If you were to choose to choose to do nothing,

[24:57] we use still get to see in real life.

[25:00] What those 14 foot poles are going to look like.

[25:03] Because they are getting installed.

[25:04] They're going out of the project around that Oak Bridge area

[25:09] And when is that part of the project expected to be completed

[25:14] They're currently working on the conduit

[25:17] and putting all of all of the features to it.

[25:22] And we approved the it's the submittal for the light for them

[25:28] to purchase the light.

[25:30] So it could be a few weeks before we saw that.

[25:33] Yeah.

[25:34] You know the thing I would add that is that, you know,

[25:36] they need to get solar, which is probably September ish maybe,

[25:39] but they also, depending on what they're being hooked to,

[25:42] we might need Edison to, to power them

[25:45] up depending on the those are going to get

[25:48] hooked up to existing power.

[25:50] So it's not part of a new over brand new electrical October

[25:55] potentially OK.

[25:57] So my other question is, if we were

[25:58] to pause this additional lighting till we get a maybe

[26:02] some more details that the rest of council

[26:04] might be wanting and be finding out about our funding options

[26:08] is that going to significantly change the plans if it were

[26:11] to be done subsequent or after, sorry,

[26:13] October when we already have a good idea

[26:15] of what the lighting is going to be like I think there would be.

[26:21] I think that's why that cost estimate changes a little bit as

[26:23] well, because there would be there would

[26:25] be a change to doing it later because the crews are

[26:30] out here now.

[26:31] They're doing.

[26:32] They're doing all that led legwork now.

[26:34] And it would basically do a be another mobilization

[26:38] for something.

[26:39] And they probably have to dig up stuff that we just put down.

[26:42] Right.

[26:42] So so according to our schedule, the paving

[26:46] of the rest of the trail would be

[26:48] happening sometime next month.

[26:50] Of course, that that's always subject to change.

[26:52] But that's kind of like the way that it's going,

[26:56] not to say that the lights can't go in afterward The conduit

[27:00] would be outside of the trail anyway

[27:03] So what's a realistic or just a conservative timeline

[27:06] that we have to make a decision on this

[27:08] to where it doesn't affect the natural progression of the trail

[27:11] improvements Probably mid-September at the latest We

[27:23] have already asked them for the cost

[27:25] for the cost estimate for it.

[27:27] So it, we would have like a more solid

[27:30] number at that point anyway OK.

[27:33] If we wanted to, to have them place the order

[27:37] does anybody else have follow up questions?

[27:39] Councilmember Garcia i'm still stuck on, on.

[27:43] I think our biggest liability for pedestrians

[27:47] is at those intersections where we're

[27:49] already going to be getting that light in our current scope.

[27:54] Our trail isn't it?

[27:55] Does it look nice?

[27:56] Would it be nice?

[27:56] I think yes.

[27:58] But liability wise, I mean, what's our liability

[28:00] now without it being lit?

[28:01] It's at your own risk, right?

[28:03] I mean, it's and it's a multi use trail

[28:08] don't we have signs that kind of help us out in any Yeah Yeah.

[28:17] And some light is better than no light and mean,

[28:21] we're getting 60 new poles intersection

[28:22] and under the bridge where it tends to be dark now

[28:26] between vineyard and olive it is super dark there in the evening.

[28:31] So it would be a great addition.

[28:33] However, can we get away by splitting this like content

[28:37] for fill that sense of safety?

[28:41] I mean, you could light it up like daylight but will

[28:43] you still feel so?

[28:43] I mean, I know how you measure safety

[28:48] The 20 the 20 lights were kind of evenly space

[28:53] throughout that length.

[28:55] If if you wanted to just create light

[28:59] closer to the intersections and not, not bridge all those gaps

[29:02] and just maybe do two lights in addition to the intersections

[29:09] to just kind of be closer to the intersection,

[29:11] that could be something that you would want to do.

[29:12] It's not like you're going to fully

[29:14] light the trail anyway with these with the proposed work.

[29:19] My my second comment would be now you give us a cost estimate.

[29:23] But with the crews out there right now,

[29:25] they can't really give us an actual quote for the labor.

[29:29] It just it's just been a delay on like, okay,

[29:34] additional questions of like, oh, well, what about,

[29:37] you know, conduit and lights.

[29:40] So they're working there were working on it.

[29:42] They just couldn't get 1 2 us fast enough.

[29:45] So we ended up going with what the what the cost for what's

[29:50] part of the contract was So what is the council thinking I'm I

[29:59] know some people might want to table it, but if we table it,

[30:01] we need to have a plan of action.

[30:02] I thought okay.

[30:04] And a statement suggestion one.

[30:09] I think the process, this whole process

[30:12] was a little bit backwards We should have

[30:14] probably had this discussion before anybody

[30:17] broke around on the trail.

[30:19] So that we wouldn't have to come back and hold special meetings

[30:21] regarding how the lighting should

[30:24] be how aesthetically pleasing it should look.

[30:27] I think these conversations as we're supposed to be,

[30:30] had before even an RFP went out to any contractors for this job.

[30:39] I think that's my first statement.

[30:42] And I truly believe that.

[30:45] I think fairly similar to the way the Dorothy Park was where

[30:50] we were provided renderings, the cost of option one,

[30:53] option two, option 3, and we actually went with option four

[30:59] where we broke it up in stages because we

[31:01] felt that that was more in line with what

[31:05] the council was thinking.

[31:07] I think that that was it's very important to start the process

[31:10] that way before any ground needs to be broken on any projects

[31:15] that we do.

[31:16] I think these type of discussions

[31:17] are very important because it's holding right now.

[31:20] What we're doing is holding the project back

[31:21] and it doesn't do anybody any good at all.

[31:24] It doesn't do our residents good because they're just

[31:26] going to be stuck with construction

[31:27] while utilizing that trail It doesn't do council any good.

[31:30] Well, hosting special meetings regarding lighting on a trail

[31:34] that we already have funds for that that's my personal opinion.

[31:39] I don't know what the rest of the council thinks,

[31:41] but I think that's just a smarter process

[31:43] to go forward with next time we have

[31:44] any community development work.

[31:46] And when we do have those presentations,

[31:49] I think renderings such as you provided today

[31:52] would help provide us a good, reasonable idea

[31:56] of what it would look like before the project goes out

[32:00] to RFP.

[32:01] And any contractors that want to bid on the RFP He knows

[32:05] that this is pretty much how they need,

[32:07] what they need to do to make it fulfill the council

[32:11] and the residents needs Second, I think right now with the way

[32:17] the timeline is specifically with the governor

[32:21] signing these funds over and basically, we don't know we're

[32:28] going to get this right.

[32:29] And not he can wake up on the wrong side of the bed tomorrow

[32:32] and said you know what, Nobody's getting any money And if we

[32:37] approve this today we'll be stuck with

[32:39] $300,000 out of our pocket.

[32:42] The other thing I'm thinking is this.

[32:45] You know, I understand that the public safety for the public

[32:50] and residents that utilize this trail but from my knowledge,

[32:55] having a few friends that are runners that know that they are

[32:58] running at nighttime or when sunsets they are equipped

[33:04] with lights, reflectors that they have on

[33:07] and lights to be able to see the path for them

[33:10] to run The other concern is when we light this path in this trail

[33:16] the residents that are on this trail they get

[33:20] affected by the lights that we put there,

[33:22] such as the Edison lights.

[33:23] Regardless if we say yes or no, those Edison lights are going on

[33:27] and there are homes that are along that trail that will be

[33:30] lit up, specifically their backyards

[33:32] And they're a part of a part of the homes.

[33:36] And when that happens speaking to some of our public safety

[33:41] department deputies, are we inviting unwanted individuals

[33:47] to this path when they're not supposed to be on this path

[33:52] Are we inviting unhoused individual

[33:55] those at certain times to this path to utilize it

[34:00] as an encampment site, a campsite?

[34:03] When we light up this path I think

[34:06] that making this trail aesthetically pleasing,

[34:11] it's great Probably other ways to go about it.

[34:14] But I think with the 40 foot lights

[34:17] adding the extra ones will light this trail a way

[34:20] too much for my liking.

[34:21] And it becomes a public safety issue after not a pedestrian

[34:25] safety but a public safety issue where we're going to have a lot

[34:29] of unwanted individuals on that path and our deputies are going

[34:32] to be utilized for these issues for me right now,

[34:36] because we don't have the $300,000 and we don't have any

[34:39] written documents from our senators saying

[34:41] that we have these $300,000.

[34:43] I'm going to vote no.

[34:44] And just continue to do what we have already done.

[34:47] Whatever the the work order is I wouldn't change it.

[34:51] That's that's my opinion right now Thank you If we were

[35:00] to table this, can we get enough information back at the next

[35:06] council meeting in a week ?

[35:11] I give them a deadline of last week,

[35:14] and they were still working on it

[35:16] So I would hope that by next week we would have a number.

[35:21] OK That's the only reason I would be willing to do it,

[35:25] because i understand that we're kind of up against a rock

[35:31] and a hard place.

[35:33] We all know that we as council members

[35:39] should all be getting the same information and a council

[35:43] manager form of government.

[35:44] That's what you do.

[35:45] And we can't all get the same information

[35:48] if we're all going out and talking with different people.

[35:51] So I would suggest then that we go ahead

[35:55] and bring them in here to the next council meeting.

[35:59] If we're going to table it I agree.

[36:04] I think we should bring everyone in.

[36:09] Councilmember Gordon my only fear with tabling it and not

[36:14] doing anything will I just feel like if we table that we already

[36:19] waited like two, three weeks.

[36:21] And the price went up $200,000 in three weeks.

[36:25] My fear is if we wait a month, it'll go up double And then

[36:29] on top of that, I agree.

[36:29] I don't think it needs to be totally late

[36:31] Maybe have it at 80% or 70% and instead of doing 20, we do 12.

[36:38] But I understand that it's hard to vote

[36:40] on something when you don't know if you have the funds for it.

[36:42] But at the same time, I wouldn't like to have this conversation

[36:45] a year from now where we have to say, put it out to bid,

[36:48] and then it costs us $1 million to ride the trail again

[36:52] It's just there's so much uncertainty.

[36:54] I think if we table that we definitely

[36:56] have to make a decision before middle of September

[36:59] just so we don't stop the project

[37:02] or don't add to the price tag.

[37:04] I think you can.

[37:05] Mayor Pro Tem yeah.

[37:07] With this hyper inflation I think

[37:11] it's certainly ridiculous less.

[37:15] But within two weeks 200,000.

[37:17] I think that's quite inconceivable poll for me

[37:25] One thing is I certainly want more bids or more estimators

[37:30] and so on.

[37:31] I'm not going to heavily rely on just One person.

[37:33] I'm not going to go ahead and do that.

[37:35] I will never, ever go and do that.

[37:38] And i want to know more information

[37:41] before I'm able to go and decide who to use.

[37:46] I'm not going to go and just listen to one person.

[37:48] I'm going to go and listen to at least three people

[37:50] to understand.

[37:51] And this i do not think that $6,500 per or excavating to feed

[38:01] and stalling I don't think that number it

[38:06] wouldn't add up to me For me.

[38:09] In addition I seriously strongly suggest at that for us

[38:19] to do for every detail, information and renderings

[38:24] and so on, when we ask developers and architects

[38:30] and you guys know this for the plans

[38:33] to for submittals you guys would even critique in regards

[38:39] to the shades of the paint wise that we're

[38:43] not able to go and get these kind of renderings.

[38:46] We should be able to go and get these renderings

[38:48] and so on because you're expecting that

[38:50] for the developers and i would expect us to go and do something

[38:56] that's even better I totally agree

[39:00] with councilwoman Ann Finley.

[39:04] I really believe that we need to go in and bring everyone in

[39:08] to have a good confess ation.

[39:11] So all of us will have more information

[39:15] so we can go and decide, rather than relying on one consultant.

[39:22] As far.

[39:23] Now So can we make a roll call vote then for wanting to table.

[39:28] This and bring everybody in and one.

[39:29] This has no, don't change to change order.

[39:32] Councilmember Louis would like to speak I

[39:41] I agree with every you know, everything

[39:43] that everyone's saying and I, I I totally think

[39:49] i I'm for bringing everyone in.

[39:52] But it doesn't make any sense to pause when they

[39:58] already broke ground already.

[40:01] So and they're not and basically, if we tell them

[40:05] if we table it then work's going to I mean,

[40:09] the work is going to still go on out there

[40:12] and, and it's critical that and if they finish the 16 lights

[40:19] that we already permanently have, then for them to come

[40:24] back and do the rest of the lights

[40:27] if we decide if we if we decide it is going to cost us

[40:31] extra money, because they're going to have to come back So

[40:35] I suggest we just get it done.

[40:38] I mean, make a decision and what we had I

[40:45] I'm totally agree with cesar Mr. Garcia.

[40:50] And Mr. Calderon.

[40:52] I I think we should we i don't think we need 20 extra lights

[40:56] because I think, 36 lights on the path is I mean,

[41:01] that's a lot of lighting.

[41:03] I think we should cut that 20 number in half

[41:07] and cut him in and cut it in half.

[41:12] I mean 25 or 26 lights along the path should be clear right?

[41:19] Well, I think we need to give some direction

[41:21] And I don't think any of us are lighting experts up here.

[41:25] So i do think we need to come to a decision

[41:28] and decide what the staff can bring to us that will allow us

[41:31] to make a decision So perhaps maybe some kind of an expert

[41:35] opinion on a slight scale back on the lights

[41:37] like okay, we've got the 20 plus the 16,

[41:39] What would it look like if we had a ten plus the 16

[41:41] or possibly a 12 plus The 16 are we are looking to hopefully

[41:45] get another opinion that we are waiting for some information on.

[41:49] And then the alternate.

[41:51] We do have the final recommendation for the full 20

[41:54] lights with the 14 foot, as well as the Ballard

[41:58] with the $6,000 installation cost Councilmember Finley,

[42:03] thank you.

[42:05] I am not a prognosticator but I can tell you right now,

[42:09] in a year and a half or whenever people are walking along there

[42:13] at night and they're going to go you ripped up this bike path

[42:17] and you didn't put lights in just I'm just telling you

[42:21] exactly what's going to happen.

[42:23] But that being said, I also believe that lighting here

[42:30] and Larry will tell you lighting keeps

[42:33] people away if they have nefarious things on their minds.

[42:38] So I don't believe it will attract

[42:42] people that shouldn't be there.

[42:43] I believe it will attract people that want to walk

[42:46] up and down the bike path.

[42:47] And if there.

[42:48] I, I walk that bike path almost every day.

[42:52] Most of the homes that are on the north side of Royal Oaks

[42:54] Drive between where the curbs are they

[42:57] almost all have some growth, high growth in between

[43:02] their houses and the bike path.

[43:04] So I don't really think it's going to affect them.

[43:06] And frankly if it does, we'll just go ahead and plant

[43:09] something there for them.

[43:11] All of that being said, I would like

[43:14] to make a motion that we bring this back in a week with more

[43:19] options for all of us, and that's you know,

[43:23] the different bollard people, any of those where we can make

[43:30] actually So this is a change order because we're already

[43:35] and existing project, which is why you only

[43:38] have one person bidding this.

[43:41] And what's going and not getting multiple bids.

[43:45] OK.

[43:46] If that's the council's direction,

[43:48] then we should just go out, make this its own separate project,

[43:52] go through the bid process and receive

[43:54] the lowest responsible bidder.

[43:56] That's going to cost us a lot more money.

[43:57] Brian i know, but this is where we're

[43:59] at today and just refreshed.

[44:01] Got the council's the way this went

[44:05] is when the award of contract went

[44:07] for this trail and this job.

[44:09] Yeah.

[44:10] The discussion among council was that we would look at a phase

[44:13] two for lighting the phase two, which could be this is got

[44:17] bumped up to the capture rate.

[44:19] Now while we're in this project, which is why we're here in this

[44:23] talking about it the way we are right now

[44:24] instead of finishing the project and going to phase two, much

[44:28] like we did for Dorothy Park.

[44:30] So it's a little bit tricky just because we're

[44:34] in the middle of this project and because of the change order,

[44:37] we only have that one person bidding

[44:40] But again, if council's direction is it we bring

[44:44] it back, Then we, we just make it a whole separate project Can

[44:48] it still be a change order if US contractors gives us

[44:51] a number them and we're not, which I'm

[44:53] sorry if the current contractor gives us their actual cost No,

[44:58] that just yes, that would be a change order.

[44:59] But if we are looking for several bids right then

[45:02] we need to go out for a whole different project.

[45:04] But right now, we haven't got the actual number

[45:06] from this contract.

[45:06] Correct So also correction.

[45:09] And you're absolutely right The beginning before this.

[45:12] Bye.

[45:12] By track bike path contract went out.

[45:17] We talked about lighting.

[45:20] So we did ask for lighting.

[45:22] I know the problem is, is the lighting was split to phase two.

[45:27] Like brian said because there was a timeline

[45:30] that the work needed to start on this path.

[45:33] So lighting was asked at the beginning

[45:36] but lighting was not provided.

[45:38] That's why we had split it up to phase two.

[45:41] And we didn't know there was the potential

[45:42] of getting 300,000 either.

[45:45] Yeah, we didn't know that until Two weeks ago.

[45:48] If I, if I could just add one more thing.

[45:51] So the trail is being funded by a grant

[45:56] And that grant was that's the grant request

[46:00] was submitted years ago.

[46:02] And as part of the requests for the grant,

[46:06] there was safety lighting included.

[46:07] And that's where that that lighting at the intersections

[46:11] was included.

[46:11] And that's where the lighting by the bridge was included.

[46:14] So there was always lighting safety, lighting included

[46:17] as part of the request for the funds

[46:21] as well as for the the actual design of the trail project.

[46:26] And that's what was awarded when the contract

[46:30] was brought to be awarded.

[46:32] That's when the conversation of having even more lighting

[46:35] was brought up.

[46:37] And that's where i think there must have been like a missed

[46:40] communication because the council never

[46:41] just wanted safety lighting.

[46:43] So I think that's where the disconnect is.

[46:45] This was years ago.

[46:46] Yeah, yeah.

[46:47] And i do recall, if I may, a static right?

[46:53] It's not just to safety part of it,

[46:56] the aesthetic It's like the beautification If this is

[47:00] about safety, just go ahead, make it like a stadium

[47:04] But we got to making sure that this looks good.

[47:06] And I vividly i've been saying this for how many years right?

[47:10] It's always about having it.

[47:12] Also, look good, too.

[47:14] And that has to be part of the requirement

[47:16] going forward So just so I understand,

[47:19] are you just very much against the tall 14 foot?

[47:21] Because for me, I am not okay, because I'm just

[47:24] trying to see where everyone's out with that

[47:25] because because I like it.

[47:27] So it's not an issue to me.

[47:28] And so I'm trying to see how do we get over this issue?

[47:30] Are we stuck on the bollard lighting aesthetically

[47:33] and is that where we're getting or like Mayor, if I may, yeah,

[47:38] I I'm seeking for more information and the information

[47:42] I got today it's not sufficient enough for me to go and make

[47:45] a decision and I'll give you where I'm at I like the 44

[47:50] balls, one because they're already the polls are going

[47:52] to be installed and I don't want us to deal

[47:54] with poll and intersection bollard, bollard pull bridge

[47:59] or bollard.

[48:00] So there should be conformity So I'm for the 14 polls.

[48:04] I'm just one.

[48:05] Do we have we need to make sure we have those funds right.

[48:08] That changes everything.

[48:09] If we can get something if we table.

[48:12] This with enough time for the contractor

[48:14] to not affect their critical path and the funding

[48:17] and give us enough time to give us

[48:19] an actual number for their word, I guess I'm open to that.

[48:23] But just to counter, I know you talked about, in the future,

[48:26] if people say, oh, we didn't put lights,

[48:29] I've had a one call during this whole workshop of someone who

[48:34] regularly goes to the trail and there was saying,

[48:36] Are you really going to spend that much money on lights?

[48:38] So there's also that argument, right

[48:40] I think having the funds securing the funds would make

[48:43] this process a lot smoother and would allow us

[48:45] to make a decision much faster.

[48:47] But if we don't have the funding, then I've already said,

[48:50] I agree with you.

[48:51] I think we need to go in and search

[48:52] a little bit more That $6,500 are

[48:54] going put to fund foundation.

[48:59] I absolutely.

[49:00] I can't swallow that.

[49:01] I'm sorry.

[49:02] That's not a bid price.

[49:04] It's just a cost estimate Just just so i'm trying to because we

[49:11] have i know you said we like concert,

[49:13] you know, conservatives we have to mid September

[49:14] so or early September.

[49:16] I guess and we might know.

[49:18] But we're not for sure about a possible funding

[49:21] grant by the end of this month correct.

[49:22] Brian So and then so I feel like we're looking for pieces

[49:28] of the puzzle, the final information

[49:30] that you're going to get on the cost,

[49:31] whether or not we're going to get any funding,

[49:33] granting And we also kind of need that before the September

[49:37] Now, if we're going to bring in other contractors

[49:39] and other Ballard lightings and changing the plan,

[49:41] I understand that's going to be have

[49:42] something that will probably have to be

[49:44] tabled and done as a phase two.

[49:46] So is everyone in agreement?

[49:48] Those are kind of that's kind of where we're at So where would we

[49:52] move the follow up on this that we would hopefully have

[49:56] the information Stephanie needs the information from Senator

[50:02] in time to not interfere the plans that are in motion Well,

[50:11] I think it's a good point to make sure that we have

[50:13] a price from the contractor.

[50:14] So we know exactly what that cost

[50:16] is And I'm speaking for what We got a price on there.

[50:20] Maybe a separate issue with bollards or whatever the case

[50:22] might be I think the biggest impact,

[50:25] correct me if you don't agree with it,

[50:27] you've been doing with the contractor more

[50:28] than I have The issue is keeping them on the site longer.

[50:34] We probably have some time.

[50:36] You know it's not best case, but if we get i would say i'm hoping

[50:42] by next week, we would have a contractor

[50:45] price But we may not know the answer on the other $2,000.

[50:51] I just my perception watching from the sidelines

[50:55] it it probably would be nice to know both of those

[50:58] answers before.

[50:59] So if we know them in a week, that's

[51:00] fine If we know I'm at the first meeting September,

[51:03] the worst case is the contractor is

[51:04] going to charge a little bit because he

[51:06] needs to keep people on site.

[51:08] A lot of this is being done with a submission director

[51:10] because there's an electrical subcontractor

[51:14] that probably don't have a lot of control over that.

[51:16] But it probably makes more sense to just wait and make

[51:19] sure we have the price correct.

[51:21] And we would know what the impact

[51:23] the price might go up a little bit,

[51:24] but we'd at least know what it is.

[51:25] Okay.

[51:26] And if we wait for those two factors and then,

[51:29] Brian, if we were to be able to accept just more for information

[51:33] from another Ballard Light Ballard light expert,

[51:37] that information we know would be having to be

[51:39] considered into a phase two.

[51:40] But at least we would have that information so that we could

[51:43] make our final call with the other two

[51:44] pieces that sound reasonable ?

[51:49] Yeah.

[51:49] Yes.

[51:50] OK.

[51:50] So we are So how do I present this tie?

[51:54] I don't know So you will just need

[51:59] to give direction and ideally in this case,

[52:02] because I'm hearing a lot of different thoughts

[52:04] is to have a motion.

[52:06] Appreciate it.

[52:07] Wouldn't be taking any action unless you want to direct staff.

[52:11] The motion would be, you know, I motion to direct staff X OK.

[52:15] I need a second and then if somebody disagrees,

[52:18] they can do us a motion.

[52:20] OK One last question, Mayor.

[52:21] Yes?

[52:22] After we approve submittals for the lights,

[52:24] what's the length for procurement

[52:25] on each of those poles?

[52:28] I think it's a couple of weeks to.

[52:31] So they're those.

[52:32] Yeah.

[52:33] OK.

[52:34] Okay.

[52:35] Motion to table.

[52:36] This to in order to secure pricing from the contractor

[52:39] and any possible grant funding that may or may not occur as

[52:44] well as gather additional information for consideration

[52:49] for phase two, for additions all contractors or manufacturers

[52:56] or And how soon do you want it back?

[52:59] Next week.

[53:00] Would it be next week or we would

[53:01] want it the first week of September

[53:03] or first meeting of September.

[53:05] We will aim for next week, but we won't know on the grant

[53:08] until the end of the month So it would be

[53:10] the first meeting is September.

[53:11] So So at a future council meeting.

[53:14] Okay.

[53:15] At a future council meeting as soon as readily available So

[53:19] I'll move that motion.

[53:22] Okay Okay.

[53:23] Second Second.

[53:24] All in favor Any opposed?

[53:27] Do you need to do a roll call?

[53:29] OK Councilmember Calderon, Councilmember Garcia Yes.

[53:34] Councilmember Trump Yeah.

[53:37] Councilmember Lewis.

[53:38] I Councilmember Finlay.

[53:40] Yes Mayor Pro Tem King.

[53:42] Yes.

[53:42] And Mayor Martin Del Campo?

[53:44] Yes Motion carries All right.

[53:48] And mayor for a little clarifying it,

[53:57] is it possible that we can find out, like and still

[54:00] have 20 of those lights How much like that

[54:03] would be for like a total of 25, like addition or, you know,

[54:10] like a like additional ten additional 12, a total of 25.

[54:15] But we want to let he's saying 16 plus 6 I think I mean,

[54:22] my opinion would be that we need.

[54:24] That's not our level of expertise to I don't know.

[54:26] I don't know what to do about that.

[54:28] One I guess.

[54:31] But come back and see if they're spaced out more.

[54:34] If we didn't do the 20 the lighting output

[54:37] would be different at a different spacing.

[54:40] So it would be a different analysis All right Okay.

[54:46] But just for clarification and please correct me

[54:47] if I'm wrong we can always ask the the contractor to say, what

[54:53] if we only had, you know, X number of ballots,

[54:56] you know, but as to the aesthetic portion,

[54:59] it will look different.

[55:00] And that would be a different discussion potentially Okay.

[55:04] I don't know how to word that one,

[55:05] but maybe if you can provide any information about a slight scale

[55:08] down, what that might look like aesthetically and cost wise,

[55:13] I will provide a cost breakdown just like I did for this one.

[55:16] So you can reduce or increase the number,

[55:18] and you'll get an easy calculation.

[55:21] Would that be an estimate ? the direction

[55:24] is to get the actual cost proposal from the contractor.

[55:28] So that's what we will bring back Okay.

[55:30] Okay.

[55:30] I'm going to do this part real quick to wrap this up.

[55:32] Officially, if you wish to speak on any items listed

[55:35] on the special meeting agenda, you

[55:36] may do so at this time Each member of the public

[55:38] have a total of three minutes to speak.

[55:39] The council cannot discuss or take actions

[55:41] on the matters on the agenda.

[55:42] For this meeting, we will call on members

[55:43] of the public participating in person first, followed

[55:46] by everyone participants If you're participating on a Zoom,

[55:48] please raise your digital hand.

[55:49] Now or press nine on the phone if you wish to speak.

[55:51] Do we have any comments?

[55:54] I'm making a final call We do have a Zoom Attendee OK

[55:57] This process is now I'm going to make a final call for them

[56:01] to raise their hand and nothing.

[56:06] And do we have any members of the public that wish to speak?

[56:09] I am going to adjourn the meeting Thank you Thank

[56:13] you for attending on Zoom.

[56:14] Whoever it is and I did walk into the court.

[56:57] I was just of i don't know, our so we are far more private Well,

[57:12] that's my yeah you entire you're in your i mean, I know Yeah.

[57:19] Yeah, I can I could ask you and I can ask him for a vote walking

[57:24] the power from a power pole.

[57:27] Right.

[57:28] No.

[57:29] Yeah exactly.

[57:31] Yeah, yeah, yeah Right.

[57:34] And so we have one on one.

[57:38] I'm not right.

[57:40] You're limited with your with you.

[57:44] So look at how far you bring rights.

[57:46] That's pretty expensive.

[57:48] I think if are on the national parks.

[57:53] It's not really I mean, I could ask.

[57:57] All right.

[57:57] I just to get a ballpark i know they

[58:00] want an exact number or this is the first thing I do.

[58:04] That exact number is.

City Council Special Meeting

Agenda

Transcript