[5:20] Can we set the clock?

[5:21] >> All right.

[5:22] >> All members of the order, please rise

[5:24] and join me for the Pledge of

[5:25] Allegiance.

[5:28] » I pledge allegiance to the flag

[5:30] of the United States of America and to

[5:33] the republic for which it stands, one

[5:36] nation under God, indivisible, with

[5:39] liberty and justice for all.

[5:45] » All right, good evening everyone.

[5:51] Okay, we have uh no presentations or

[5:54] public hearings, so we can go right to

[5:57] our public comments. So, the public are

[5:59] welcome to use this time to make

[6:00] comments about city matters or items on

[6:02] the agenda

[6:03] that are not part of public hearing. If

[6:04] you wish to come forward, please limit

[6:05] your comments to 5 minutes or less.

[6:07] There is a time clock on your left.

[6:09] Uh that being said, come forward, state

[6:10] your name and address for the record,

[6:12] and the podium is now open.

[6:20] » Uh name's Eric Arnold. Uh address 294

[6:22] West Westoff Place here in Gardner.

[6:25] Um some of you might know me, remember

[6:27] me. Uh been here a while ago. I applied

[6:30] for the uh appointment a few years back.

[6:33] Um

[6:34] since then, um I've kind of spent time

[6:37] watching uh how the city city spends its

[6:39] money.

[6:40] Um tonight I wanted to bring up one of

[6:41] the things the city has spent money on

[6:43] um that I'd like to question. Uh right

[6:45] now, the Gardner Police Department is

[6:47] running a Flock system.

[6:49] Uh those are fixed cameras uh that

[6:51] photograph every vehicle that passes,

[6:52] log where and when, and stored in

[6:54] searchable database. The city uh the

[6:56] city has paid

[6:58] uh about $33,000 for the cameras and is

[7:01] now paying around $13,000 a year uh to

[7:03] keep the four of them running uh on a

[7:05] contract that will automatically renew

[7:07] on its own.

[7:09] Uh city could say that these cameras uh

[7:11] just read plates um for the police work,

[7:14] but the department already does that in

[7:15] the patrol cars that carry the Axon

[7:18] systems, and plate reading is a feature

[7:19] that um

[7:21] that contract already pays for. So,

[7:23] Flock isn't really filling a gap. Flock

[7:25] is a permanent, always-on record of

[7:27] where ordinary people go. Uh that is not

[7:30] plate reading. That is surveillance.

[7:33] >> [snorts]

[7:33] >> Set out to learn how it's governed

[7:35] through open records requests uh what

[7:37] that's like uh tells you as much as the

[7:39] cameras will.

[7:41] Um I've asked who can search the

[7:42] database, whether anyone audits those

[7:44] searches. Um, I pointed to the city in

[7:47] writing uh to the controlling Kansas

[7:49] case, which says an agency cannot defeat

[7:51] a records request by declining to run

[7:53] the report that produces that record.

[7:55] I've asked them to produce those records

[7:57] or state in writing when they cannot.

[7:59] They have at this point done neither.

[8:01] Their answer has been, "We are not in

[8:04] possession."

[8:05] About their own system that they log

[8:07] into with their own credentials on a

[8:09] contract that includes an audit feature.

[8:13] I asked which outside entities can use

[8:15] this data or reach our data. Not in

[8:17] possession. I've asked for governing

[8:19] policy. So, our policy governing this?

[8:22] There is none specific to the system,

[8:24] only generic city policy that never

[8:26] mentions Flock except in one case.

[8:29] The only spot license plate readers

[8:30] appear in any city policy is on the list

[8:32] of records that at this point the city

[8:34] has refused to release.

[8:36] And when I corrected the city on a law

[8:38] it was citing, it answered with the

[8:40] paywall, which is fully within its right

[8:42] to charge money.

[8:44] >> [snorts]

[8:45] >> However, the timing is interesting.

[8:47] I asked for emails with Flock. I have

[8:50] made that request before for emails and

[8:52] had that time had not been charged. This

[8:54] time, it came back with a $170 bill,

[8:57] most of it demanded up front before

[8:59] anyone even checks whether there are 10

[9:01] emails or 10,000 emails.

[9:04] Here's why we can't wait. This contract

[9:06] will renew itself automatically.

[9:08] Meanwhile, Flock has rewritten its

[9:10] standard terms at least four times in

[9:12] the last 7 months.

[9:14] It deleted its written promise to not

[9:16] sell consumer data. It now claims a

[9:18] perpetual license to keep using that

[9:21] data even after a city cancels.

[9:23] Gardner signed terms hold for now, but a

[9:25] contract that auto renews with a vendor

[9:28] rewriting the rules that fast is not

[9:30] something to re-up without ever looking

[9:32] at it.

[9:34] It's pretty wasteful on its face.

[9:35] Thousands of dollars in a year on

[9:38] autopilot for surveillance that

[9:39] duplicates the plate reading that we

[9:41] already pay for. Here's what I would ask

[9:43] you to hold on to. Is that not one of

[9:45] you voted for this, not one of you

[9:47] signed it, so not one of you has to

[9:49] defend it. This was done without you the

[9:51] same as it was done without me and the

[9:53] difference is that you guys can do

[9:54] something about it.

[9:56] >> [snorts]

[9:57] >> So, I'm asking three things. Suspend the

[10:00] system now while it has no policy and no

[10:02] oversight behind it.

[10:04] Serve notice of non-renewal so it does

[10:06] not renew on its own before you've had

[10:08] your say, and if this body does vote to

[10:10] keep it, put a real policy behind it

[10:13] first with the documented reason for

[10:15] every search and audits that the public

[10:17] can actually see, not the wall that I've

[10:19] spent weeks running into.

[10:22] But, I won't pretend that this is what I

[10:23] really want. What I want is much

[10:25] simpler. I want these cameras gone. The

[10:27] county and the state may run their own

[10:29] and I can't stop that. Gardner can. I'm

[10:32] asking you as my representatives to take

[10:34] us out of it.

[10:36] >> [snorts]

[10:36] >> This contract renews on its own unless

[10:38] you guys act. The only question tonight

[10:40] is whether it keeps running because

[10:41] nobody was willing to ask that it stop.

[10:44] I'm asking.

[10:45] And if anything that I've said tonight

[10:47] proves inaccurate, it is only because

[10:49] the city would not give me the records

[10:51] to get it right. Thank you.

[10:54] >> Mr. Arnold?

[11:03] » Uh

[11:04] Hello, ladies and gentlemen. I'm

[11:06] Steve Shue, 1841 Sycamore Court,

[11:09] Gardner, Kansas.

[11:10] Even though the council president might

[11:12] have wanted to get rid of me before the

[11:14] meeting and

[11:15] >> [laughter]

[11:16] >> I'm true I promise I'm not disruptive.

[11:19] Um I will echo what uh what uh um was just said about uh by

[11:25] Mr. Arnold about the the Flock cameras.

[11:27] Um I I'm going to speak more on the

[11:30] Fourth Amendment implications of such of

[11:32] such cameras.

[11:34] Um one of the issues that I've had and I

[11:36] don't have a lot of notes, so I'm kind

[11:37] of speaking uh out of you know,

[11:39] basically

[11:40] on you know, uh

[11:42] out of turn. I was actually I had a I

[11:44] had a laptop with some information and I

[11:45] didn't bring my my my charger, so that's

[11:48] all right.

[11:48] Um but basically what it comes down to

[11:50] is that these cameras because they're

[11:52] stationary and they are always recording

[11:53] 24/7 365 and passing that data along

[11:57] through

[11:58] uh through electronic means to

[12:00] uh other uh jurisdictions uh

[12:02] specifically through fusion centers

[12:04] primarily. Uh that information can be

[12:06] networked and basically create choose

[12:08] basically used to create a digital

[12:10] dossier on an individual's movements

[12:12] without their knowledge or consent.

[12:14] And so basically we're talking about a

[12:16] blatant violation of the Fourth

[12:17] Amendment right to unreasonable and

[12:19] intrusive searches and seizures without

[12:21] a warrant that's signed by a judge.

[12:23] Now one can say, "Well, well, that we

[12:25] can get that information through

[12:26] geolocation." Like, "Yes, absolutely,

[12:27] but you still need to have a a warrant

[12:30] signed by a judge in order to be able to

[12:31] access geolocation data. Even with the

[12:32] Kelsey Smith Act, which allows you to be

[12:35] allows law enforcement to compel cell

[12:37] phone companies within a

[12:39] for very short period of time of doing

[12:41] that of getting that information, they

[12:43] still have to do a retroactive

[12:44] administrative warrant in order to be

[12:45] able to justify that request. Here there

[12:48] is no oversight. There is no safeguards.

[12:50] There is no procedure to prevent that

[12:53] from happening. And that means it's ripe

[12:55] for abuse. And I can just bring up a

[12:57] couple of cases here in in Kansas that where this has happened. In Kansas

[13:00] City, Kansas, well, Lieutenant Victor

[13:02] Hilar uh

[13:04] actually used the Flock system to track

[13:06] his estranged wife between September

[13:08] 23rd and October 23rd in 2022.

[13:11] Uh he was arrested in

[13:13] on October 26th, pleaded guilty to a

[13:15] misdemeanor computer crime and stalking.

[13:17] Um it's also happened in other states.

[13:19] In Pennsylvania, uh officer Michael

[13:22] McSherry in 2021 pleaded guilty to

[13:24] stalking. In Niceville, Florida, Florida

[13:27] off former officer Cody Hall in 2026

[13:29] pleaded no contest after using the

[13:30] department's spot system to track

[13:31] another officer's movements.

[13:33] Um as you can see, this this can and has

[13:36] been abused in the past by other

[13:37] jurisdictions and even in Kansas where

[13:39] we live.

[13:40] Um there's a most recent case that

[13:41] actually took place um just up the road

[13:43] in Bonner Springs.

[13:45] Um detective uh Kyle Rector Rector, and I believe this was actually

[13:49] in the local news, uh allegedly used

[13:51] readers to track his estranged wife and

[13:52] two men he suspected were her partners.

[13:55] Um this has been charged. It's an

[13:56] alleged violation, um but it has not

[13:59] been a conviction in that yet, but it's

[14:00] still in the system and will be going to

[14:02] trial. So, as you can see, this is

[14:04] something we have to get a rein on. Uh

[14:06] these AI these AI-enabled cameras can

[14:08] actually create uh because of the fact

[14:11] that they're being networked and

[14:12] integrated with other cameras across

[14:14] other jurisdictions, can be used to

[14:15] create a digital dossier on an

[14:17] individual's movements, which could

[14:19] ultimately be used to curtail an

[14:20] individual's movements in the future.

[14:22] This is absolutely wrong. It is

[14:24] absolutely a violation of the Fourth

[14:26] Amendment and absolutely needs to be

[14:27] stopped. And if we can do it here at the

[14:29] local level,

[14:30] we can't necessarily control what the

[14:31] state and the county are doing, as just

[14:33] as Eric said, but we can absolutely

[14:36] control what happens within our borders.

[14:37] I hope and pray that this body, which I

[14:40] was a part of for 12 years, will make

[14:42] that decision and get these things

[14:44] offline. Thank you.

[14:46] >> Thank you, Mr. Shute.

[15:02] » Good evening, Mayor, council members. Uh

[15:04] my name is Alan Plesberg. My residence

[15:07] is in the northeast area of Gardner,

[15:09] Kansas, 520 Farmer Way, 66030.

[15:14] Um

[15:16] a comment with a little different tone

[15:18] than the previous two for this evening.

[15:20] >> [clears throat]

[15:22] >> It has to do with a report I made last

[15:24] year having to do with our city

[15:26] fireworks policy.

[15:28] I would like to take this opportunity to

[15:30] thank the mayor and the council members

[15:32] for taking note of my report last July

[15:35] during a meeting

[15:36] that fireworks were being discharged on

[15:38] Gardner Municipal Airport property.

[15:41] Um I mentioned my concern at the time

[15:44] because I am a member of the glider

[15:46] club.

[15:46] >> up a little bit, sir, please?

[15:48] >> I'm a member of the glider club that

[15:52] uh rents hangars and operates out of

[15:55] Gardner Municipal Airport. And my report

[15:58] indicated that there was fireworks

[16:01] activity not in agreement with the city

[16:03] ordinance regarding discharge on public

[16:06] property as well as presenting a

[16:08] possible hazard

[16:10] to the aircraft hangars nearby,

[16:12] aircraft, and aviation fuel pump.

[16:15] Um it also generated an hour-long task

[16:17] for a city employee to clean up after it

[16:20] last year.

[16:23] I suggested the report it would be

[16:25] helpful for the city to generate signs

[16:27] that indicated that it was against the

[16:29] ordinance and perhaps some additional

[16:32] patrol engine the area.

[16:34] I'm pleased to report at this time that

[16:36] the signs and other city efforts last

[16:39] month seem to have had a positive effect

[16:42] at the municipal airport. Jim Holgravers

[16:45] told me that there was no debris

[16:48] to clean up on property this

[16:50] year.

[16:51] He attends the airport facility daily

[16:54] and mentioned to me he thought the signs

[16:56] had a positive effect.

[17:00] Maybe the July 4th weather and the rain

[17:02] showers the late afternoon affected

[17:05] people's their eagerness to light them,

[17:07] but it's a welcome change from an hour's

[17:10] worth of cleanup duty to none at all.

[17:14] Um

[17:15] so

[17:18] it [clears throat] helped us protect the

[17:19] aviation property

[17:21] and the hangers we use out there.

[17:24] As a side note, there were signs along

[17:26] Moonlight and Pharma over here near my

[17:28] residence, but there was fair amount of

[17:29] debris in along my street and the house.

[17:33] I still had to clean up things from my

[17:35] driveway and yard. The casual approach

[17:37] to the ordinance is still a trend in

[17:39] some parts of the city.

[17:41] But again, thank you for your attention

[17:43] to the city's airport.

[17:45] Mayor, council members, thank you for

[17:47] your time and attention this evening.

[17:49] I'll provide a

[17:50] copy of my remarks to Mr. Hedley, who's

[17:53] the airport manager, and available for

[17:56] comments or questions if desired. Thank

[17:59] you.

[18:00] >> Thank you, sir.

[18:19] » How y'all doing?

[18:21] Mr. Mayor and council, thank you very

[18:22] much for having us. My name is Andy

[18:23] Akright. This is my son, Robbie.

[18:26] Um and we are now

[18:28] proud residents of Gardner. Finally, we

[18:31] just moved in May.

[18:33] So, uh 30200

[18:35] West 185th

[18:37] Street. Uh so, yeah. Uh that's good. Oh,

[18:41] real quick, on the fireworks thing,

[18:45] y'all are crazy. I'm just going to say

[18:46] like there's a lot of fireworks here,

[18:48] but it was amazing that they just

[18:49] stopped. Like at the

[18:52] that night, just like everybody knew they had a good thing and

[18:55] it could get taken away if they broke

[18:56] the rules, so they just stopped. Uh so,

[18:59] an intense amount of fireworks, but

[19:01] everybody seemed to follow the rules, so

[19:03] that's cool. Uh so, appreciate that.

[19:05] Um

[19:07] so, we're here uh about parks and rec.

[19:10] And I apologize that it's so late, but

[19:12] moving was crazy and all that stuff. So,

[19:15] just want to thank you all for another

[19:17] great season of soccer

[19:19] in the spring. Fall season's about to

[19:21] start up. Um so, it's been a really good

[19:24] time. The last time I was here, I asked

[19:27] about holes in Gardner Elementary soccer

[19:29] field and was told to go to the school

[19:32] board or to the, you know,

[19:35] schools and I'll let you know that like

[19:38] two emails and boom, they fixed it. It

[19:40] was awesome. Um so, that was all fixed.

[19:42] So, thank you guys for that. And thank

[19:45] you to the schools for partnering so

[19:47] well with us. Um we also do basketball

[19:51] and they do a great job with the gyms.

[19:54] It's just a matter of telling them, you

[19:55] know, if they if something needs

[19:57] improving. So, it's very cool.

[19:59] Um what I'd like to highlight

[20:01] today is the cost. So, thank you again

[20:05] for your funding.

[20:06] The cost in these times, I'm sure you

[20:10] know people are budgeting and seeing

[20:12] what they're going to spend money on,

[20:13] what they're

[20:14] going to try and use. It's only $80 to

[20:18] play soccer. That's seven games and a

[20:21] jersey and two months of practice. So,

[20:24] if you compare that to going to the

[20:25] movies or going to a Royals game,

[20:28] like woo, 80 bucks is nothing. Um and

[20:31] what what that does is already

[20:34] the Parks and Rec gives an opportunity

[20:36] for people of all abilities to come and

[20:39] to play, which is a big thing that you

[20:41] don't get in other leagues where you can

[20:43] be on a team, but you might not actually

[20:45] play.

[20:46] Um you get to play all ability levels,

[20:48] but also economic levels, too. When

[20:51] you're thinking about, you know,

[20:53] what are we going to spend our money on

[20:55] and can we do it? And it gives an

[20:57] opportunity to those people who maybe

[21:01] couldn't afford a premier team or

[21:03] whatnot to to play a sport. And I really

[21:06] appreciate you funding that so that we

[21:11] can keep those costs low to keep

[21:14] giving the opportunity to kids. So,

[21:16] thank you very much. It's from

[21:17] 4-years-old through eighth grade. When

[21:20] you get to fifth grade, we don't have

[21:22] enough teams to make a whole league. So,

[21:25] we play with um

[21:27] in the Tri-County League. So, I

[21:29] appreciate that they figured out a way

[21:32] to still have a way to for kids to play

[21:35] in Parks and Rec that um

[21:37] you know, might not otherwise. So, but I

[21:40] know you want to hear from Robbie. So,

[21:43] Robbie's got three things for you.

[21:46] » Some of the things I like about playing

[21:49] soccer is like the

[21:52] being like put being able to like play

[21:55] with my friends like after school kind

[21:59] of

[22:00] like stuff like the fun stuff we do at

[22:04] practice and like

[22:06] just like playing games, too.

[22:10] Then some things that it's helped me

[22:12] learn is like being a good leader.

[22:16] Being able to work as a team better and

[22:19] good sportsmanship.

[22:25] » All right, so

[22:26] camera's right there, right? All right,

[22:28] so signing up's officially kind of ended

[22:31] yesterday, but

[22:32] you have a late fee. It's only 95 bucks.

[22:35] So, it's a $15 late fee and that's still

[22:37] seven games, two months of practice, and

[22:40] a jersey. You can still sign up. So,

[22:42] sign up. It's a good time. Volunteer

[22:44] coaches and great things. And with the

[22:47] Blue Jays with our team, this will be

[22:49] the 11th season and we have always

[22:51] followed three rules and they are we

[22:54] play

[22:54] >> hard.

[22:55] >> We play

[22:56] >> fair.

[22:56] >> And we have

[22:57] >> fun.

[22:57] >> All right, thank you guys. Appreciate

[22:59] it.

[23:00] >> Thank you.

[23:09] » All right. Thank you everyone.

[23:12] We will

[23:14] move on to consent agenda. Is there any

[23:15] item on the consent agenda Council like

[23:17] to remove?

[23:18] >> Number five.

[23:20] >> I hear motion for consent agenda items

[23:22] number one through four.

[23:24] >> So moved.

[23:24] >> Second.

[23:26] >> Motion Baldwin second Eaton we approve

[23:29] items one through four. All in favor?

[23:31] Opposed? Stan I'm sorry Council

[23:35] person Johnson is joining us by Zoom I

[23:37] believe correct?

[23:39] >> Yes I'm here.

[23:40] >> Yes thank you for joining us. I I

[23:41] apologize to say that.

[23:43] >> Oh no worries.

[23:44] >> You're wondering what the voice is.

[23:46] Um okay. So consent agenda items one

[23:50] through four pass.

[23:51] Uh consent agenda item number five

[23:53] consider approving a budget amendment to

[23:54] include mandatory overseas import

[23:56] tariffs for a substation or transformer

[23:58] purchase.

[24:00] >> So my question is

[24:02] the amount is approximately 12.8% of the

[24:06] purchase

[24:08] and the tariff is 15% used to be 25. So

[24:11] I just wanted to make sure that whatever

[24:13] number we're multiplying to get to that

[24:16] number is actually the 15% and not 25%

[24:20] now that it's changed back.

[24:22] >> Uh

[24:23] the amount is the amount that's provided

[24:26] by the supplier of the tariff basically

[24:28] that will be the amount of the amount of

[24:31] the tariff that WE SHOULD SEE.

[24:37] » I OBJECT.

[24:39] >> [laughter]

[24:41] >> YEAH I'M SURPRISED BY that too.

[24:46] » So that's the max up to that maximum

[24:47] amount.

[24:48] >> Yeah it is the maximum amount. We don't

[24:50] have the exact tariff amount. We will

[24:53] not know that till the 18th of September

[24:57] and it's the timing that we need to pay

[25:00] this or have this approval and pay that

[25:02] tariff amount, it's going to

[25:07] not fall under. I guess that's the best

[25:09] way to phrase it.

[25:11] So, the amount that I

[25:12] proposed to you is the maximum amount

[25:15] that we should see for the tariff.

[25:19] » So, it's not to exceed.

[25:20] >> Not to exceed.

[25:21] >> And we're comfortable We're pretty

[25:22] positive on this.

[25:24] Okay. All right, then I'm good.

[25:29] All right. Any other comments on uh

[25:32] consent agenda item five?

[25:36] Do I hear a motion?

[25:37] >> So moved.

[25:38] >> Okay.

[25:39] Uh motion Baldwin, uh second McNair.

[25:43] We approve a budget amendment to include

[25:45] mandatory overseas import tariffs for

[25:47] the substation for transformer purchase.

[25:50] All in favor?

[25:51] >> Aye.

[25:52] >> Sorry. All opposed?

[25:55] Sustain, uh consent agenda item number

[25:58] five passes.

[26:01] Uh planning and zoning consent.

[26:04] Council like to discuss that?

[26:07] I hear a motion to approve.

[26:09] >> So moved.

[26:09] >> Second.

[26:10] >> Motion Baldwin, second Deaton. We

[26:13] approve planning and zoning consent. All

[26:15] in favor?

[26:16] >> Aye.

[26:18] >> All opposed? Sustain, planning and

[26:19] zoning consent passes.

[26:22] Uh that does it for new business. We do

[26:24] have

[26:26] We're going to schedule an executive

[26:27] session of about 10 minutes for an after

[26:29] this meeting for attorney-client

[26:31] privilege.

[26:32] Um

[26:33] but, we'll move into council

[26:35] >> Yeah, it's still part of the meeting. It's not

[26:38] We're not going to adjourn. I just

[26:40] >> Oh, yeah. You said after the meeting, so

[26:42] >> Oh, sorry.

[26:43] After new business, then.

[26:45] Business after this.

[26:48] Sorry, Skip.

[26:51] Um

[26:52] okay, so let's move to council updates.

[26:54] Um, start uh let's Chief Aaron, are you ready?

[26:57] >> Sure.

[26:58] >> Okay, I don't know if you want to speak

[26:59] a little bit about the Flock cameras for

[27:00] the

[27:02] >> Sure. Um,

[27:03] right now we have one stationary Flock

[27:06] camera deployed.

[27:08] Um,

[27:09] that's it.

[27:10] For Flock in the city.

[27:12] Um,

[27:13] but and we are also going through

[27:16] accreditation, so we're looking at

[27:17] policy.

[27:19] And we're looking at every single

[27:21] policies we go through, so I'm

[27:22] interested in updating policy. We just

[27:24] started the current process of doing

[27:26] that now.

[27:27] General IT

[27:28] uh covers most of our software service.

[27:31] But I completely agree that in some

[27:34] technologies having a more robust policy

[27:36] would be a better thing.

[27:38] So, that's one of the things that we're

[27:39] going to look to do. When you ask for

[27:41] the quarter request, that's what we have

[27:42] right now for policy.

[27:44] Um,

[27:45] tomorrow night is night out at the pool

[27:49] from 6:00 to 8:00. It's a It's a

[27:50] national thing.

[27:51] Um,

[27:52] it's community policing driven, forward

[27:55] facing. Basically, we're going to cook

[27:57] hot dogs. Every member of the public is

[27:59] invited. Pool's open from 6:00 to 8:00.

[28:01] Please come join us.

[28:03] Hot dogs,

[28:04] meet our officers, get a chance to talk

[28:06] to them, and hang out for a couple

[28:07] hours, and utilize the

[28:09] Sure.

[28:11] >> Thank you.

[28:13] >> Wait, uh can I ask uh

[28:15] on the Flock, when when is Do you know when Off

[28:19] >> Off the air.

[28:20] >> when the renewal will be for that or

[28:24] » Not off the top of my head. I do not.

[28:26] >> Okay.

[28:26] >> Next next year is the renewal

[28:29] on it.

[28:30] >> Okay.

[28:34] » Uh Renee.

[28:36] >> Um, I [clears throat] just want to

[28:37] mention that we have an opening on our

[28:39] planning commission. We've had our um

[28:42] position posted for 2 weeks, and are we

[28:45] to have any applications, so we're

[28:47] hoping that we'll find a few new people.

[28:52] » That finance?

[28:54] >> Yes. Um we heard comments from council

[28:56] last year during the budget process, and

[28:58] we took those to heart. We got a draft

[29:01] of the budget book online already.

[29:03] So, we're earlier than usual.

[29:05] Um it's got all the core elements, and

[29:08] if we have another version come out with

[29:09] some more um sections of it, we'll add

[29:11] it up later on. But, you can go out and

[29:13] see basically all the core information

[29:15] of the budget.

[29:19] » Nothing to add.

[29:22] >> Administrator. I mean, sorry. Sorry.

[29:25] >> Nothing from me.

[29:29] » Dave?

[29:30] >> Nothing.

[29:31] >> Jason?

[29:31] >> Nothing from me.

[29:34] >> Ellen?

[29:35] >> Nothing from me.

[29:37] >> Administrator?

[29:37] >> So, we had a request for a supplemental

[29:40] budget report that lists

[29:43] expenses over 50,000, and Matt and I are

[29:47] putting that together, and it'll be out.

[29:49] I'll send it out to council sometime

[29:50] this week.

[29:55] » Councilperson Johnson?

[29:58] >> Um just a couple couple things. One,

[30:00] thank you to Renee for getting me set up

[30:02] on Zoom. I appreciate it. Um thank you

[30:04] also to everybody who came and spoke

[30:06] tonight. As always, we appreciate. Um I

[30:09] know I appreciate hearing from you and

[30:11] what's important to you and what's on

[30:12] your mind. So, thank you for coming.

[30:14] Um and then to everybody, just a

[30:17] reminder that tomorrow is the primary

[30:19] day, so please go vote if you haven't

[30:21] already.

[30:22] Um it's important, so just go get it

[30:24] done. Thank you.

[30:27] >> Thank you.

[30:29] Councilman McNair?

[30:31] >> Yes. I have three items.

[30:34] Renee, could you put some photos up for

[30:35] me, please?

[30:38] Uh

[30:39] this was Friday during the afternoon.

[30:42] And uh

[30:44] our granddaughters, picture them on the

[30:45] in the right, uh had a lemonade stand.

[30:48] And Gardner Police Department heard

[30:50] about it, and our officers responded in force,

[30:54] and it was awesome.

[30:56] Uh these guys,

[30:57] you know,

[30:58] came out.

[31:00] They saw our grand They made it uh they

[31:03] helped our grandkids.

[31:05] Uh

[31:05] they were very good as far as

[31:08] uh showing up and showing how community

[31:10] policing

[31:12] is at its best.

[31:14] And

[31:15] uh just want to say thank you for making

[31:17] our granddaughters' day.

[31:18] Uh

[31:19] it was it was an awesome thing.

[31:21] Uh

[31:23] next one is uh I want to go uh I don't

[31:26] know if everybody made it to the county

[31:28] fair this last week or not, but it was a phenomenal fair this year.

[31:32] Uh

[31:33] and kudos Mike Brock and his new fair

[31:36] board.

[31:38] Uh

[31:38] Mike is the new president of the fair

[31:40] board, and there was significant work

[31:42] put into the fair this year. I I noticed

[31:45] a massive difference.

[31:47] Uh

[31:47] again, uh Gardner Police Department and

[31:50] Johnson County Sheriff

[31:51] get a big shout-out. Uh

[31:53] they did a phenomenal job at the fair.

[31:56] Uh

[31:58] coverage was excellent,

[32:00] and I just

[32:01] generally appreciated it. Uh I was going

[32:04] to comment on Block 200 this last night.

[32:07] And the only thing else I have to do is

[32:08] uh

[32:09] is a little bit on spending. Thank you

[32:11] for getting the

[32:12] $50,000 of

[32:14] uh I think that uh

[32:16] as we go forward,

[32:18] uh

[32:19] seeing that we don't have a lot of

[32:20] commercial and industrial, we're going

[32:21] to need to be watching the budgets

[32:23] fairly close.

[32:25] And

[32:26] I'd like to see if we can get to the

[32:28] point to where

[32:29] we don't spend as much,

[32:32] uh

[32:32] and maybe put some of that back into

[32:35] CMP.

[32:36] Uh

[32:37] and uh not have to go out of

[32:40] $10 million in a meeting of mine.

[32:42] That made me

[32:43] kind of back

[32:45] and have some cash. So, that's all I

[32:47] have.

[32:48] Thanks.

[32:49] >> Thanks again, Chief.

[32:51] >> Councilman Bean?

[32:52] >> Uh,

[32:53] I'll speak to

[32:55] um, Mr. Fosberg's uh, comments on uh,

[32:57] the fireworks. I did hear back from

[33:00] uh, the uh, school board as well. Um, or

[33:03] from the the school district. They

[33:05] appreciated the signs. They said they

[33:06] uh,

[33:07] seem to have the desired effect. So, the

[33:10] ones out at the airport also had the

[33:12] desired effect. Maybe it was the

[33:13] weather, too, but we'll take it whatever

[33:15] we can get, and we'll

[33:17] uh, try and take another step forward

[33:19] next year. I know been talking with uh, the Chief and um, you the Mayor and

[33:25] uh, with some ideas for next year. So,

[33:26] we'll we'll get those out there. I'll

[33:28] send out my notes eventually. And uh, can't say it enough, go vote. Uh,

[33:33] that's it.

[33:35] >> Thank you.

[33:36] >> First question.

[33:37] >> Yeah, so I have some questions about the

[33:39] flock stuff, and I'm not super familiar

[33:42] with all of that.

[33:45] Um, but so we have one camera that's

[33:48] ours. I know there's several that are

[33:51] the state's and the counties.

[33:53] Um,

[33:55] what is the difference between the

[33:57] stationary flock camera and the LPRs,

[33:59] and why do we feel like having the

[34:02] in the cars, and why do we feel like

[34:03] having the one camera is beneficial to

[34:06] us as opposed to the cars

[34:08] only?

[34:09] >> Sure. Um,

[34:11] so generally with the fleet on fleet

[34:13] ALPRs

[34:14] that are in the vehicles, as the

[34:17] officers are going to calls for service

[34:19] or patrolling, that's going to alert

[34:21] them on a tag, car stolen, tag stolen,

[34:25] there's an Amber Alert, Silver Alert,

[34:26] missing person,

[34:28] uh, warrants are associated with the

[34:31] vehicles. So, generally that's the

[34:32] purpose of what we call fleet ALPR.

[34:36] The one was installed in

[34:37] That was before I got here. Um

[34:40] and I I won't disclose at this point in

[34:42] time the intersection, but generally it

[34:44] is to look at um if you have a suspect

[34:47] potentially leaving an area so that

[34:49] you're able to track uh the general

[34:51] direction of movement of where the

[34:53] suspect went

[34:54] uh in relation to a crime.

[34:57] If they're stationary, obviously, then

[34:58] you're going to be able to see the

[35:00] general

[35:01] area of movement. If they're in the

[35:02] cars, the cars are moving, so

[35:05] you're going to get locations, but it's

[35:07] not going to show you the exact location

[35:09] they were at at that time saying they

[35:10] were at that intersection at this point

[35:12] in time or at the next intersection at

[35:14] this point in time. Maybe after uh

[35:17] some type of crime is reported if that

[35:18] makes sense. Does that answer your

[35:20] question?

[35:20] >> Yeah, yeah.

[35:21] And then so then my next question is

[35:23] it's been in before you got here, so

[35:26] several years. Have we ever audited that

[35:29] to make sure that nobody internally has

[35:31] abused that system?

[35:34] >> I asked for when I got here to go ahead

[35:36] and give me an updated uh audit. I don't

[35:38] know what was done prior to that, I'll

[35:40] be honest with you. I think

[35:42] most of the time it's complaint-driven,

[35:44] meaning someone complains about the

[35:46] situations that you brought up earlier,

[35:49] and then that's what causes the audit.

[35:50] Those are things that I'll want to look

[35:52] at as we update policy.

[35:54] >> Yeah, if we decide to

[35:55] keep the camera, I would like a policy

[35:57] of like auditing cuz I might not know if

[36:00] somebody is watching me, you know, and

[36:03] so if it's all only complaint-driven,

[36:04] that's a little bit concerning. I'd like

[36:06] to see something in the policy of auditing. And do you know right now

[36:11] who is able to access that and the rules

[36:15] they have to follow to be able to access

[36:16] that data?

[36:17] >> For the flock.

[36:19] >> Specific to the audit or just using the

[36:21] system?

[36:21] >> Using the system. If if I want to look

[36:23] at a license plate can any of our

[36:26] officers do that?

[36:26] >> All sworn officers have the ability to

[36:28] yes, to access it. Um it follows the

[36:31] same rules under NCIC and KCJ. If I were

[36:34] to run a tag manually, then I have to

[36:36] have a reason to do it. And it's the

[36:39] same with the system. You have to have a

[36:41] reason,

[36:42] uh specific purpose to run a query.

[36:49] » Thank you, Mr. Bryant.

[36:50] >> Yes, ma'am.

[36:52] Mr. Bryant.

[36:53] >> How many Flock cameras are in the city

[36:56] limits that aren't the city's?

[36:59] >> To my knowledge, just we just have just

[37:02] one.

[37:02] >> Okay.

[37:03] >> To the best of my knowledge, there is

[37:04] one Flock

[37:05] camera, to the best of my knowledge,

[37:08] uh in this city. We own that one, but I

[37:10] don't believe there's any other Flock

[37:11] ones in the city limits.

[37:13] >> Okay. And then

[37:14] as my

[37:15] 8-year-old would figure out the wiggle

[37:17] room here, any other brand cameras?

[37:19] >> [laughter]

[37:20] >> Yes, that belong to the county.

[37:23] And it's they are not Flock.

[37:25] >> Okay. And what are our

[37:30] rights, if you will, not the right word,

[37:31] but um prerogative, if we don't want the

[37:35] county's cameras in the city?

[37:40] » That's probably above my pay grade, pay

[37:41] grade, sir.

[37:42] >> Ryan?

[37:44] >> [laughter]

[37:45] >> I have to look at it. Um I mean, if it's on our equipment, um

[37:50] >> Cuz it's probably on one of our poles,

[37:52] right?

[37:52] >> Right. I mean, we we should have the

[37:54] right to control that, um but

[37:56] that

[37:58] may fall into, you know, right of way

[38:01] use. I mean, like we we can't

[38:05] just simply tell people who want to use

[38:07] our right of way no in many in many

[38:10] instances.

[38:11] Um

[38:12] I've

[38:13] never had that question before on the on the a governmental use of our

[38:19] right of way. Um

[38:21] so I I'd probably want to look into it a

[38:23] little bit more.

[38:24] >> Okay. Well, then I don't guess I have

[38:26] any more on that tonight cuz sounds like

[38:28] we have a few things to look into. So.

[38:30] Okay. Um

[38:33] That's what I had on that. Um I'm glad

[38:35] to see that the signs made a difference

[38:37] with the fireworks. Um

[38:39] you know, maybe it was the weather,

[38:40] maybe it wasn't, but like you said, I

[38:43] whatever

[38:44] benefit we got.

[38:45] Um

[38:46] and it's nice that it saved us an hour

[38:47] of cleanup out there. It's great.

[38:50] Um

[38:51] and uh

[38:52] and the uh

[38:53] keep uh that positive attitude. I mean,

[38:55] you're always eager and excited to come

[38:57] up here. So, glad to have you and keep

[38:59] coaching.

[39:00] All right. That's all I got.

[39:03] >> And I would just say, you know,

[39:05] sounds like there's a lot of questions

[39:06] about the the cameras and fog. So, maybe

[39:10] uh the next week or so, why don't

[39:12] you email to Jim

[39:13] and

[39:14] I'll let you think of more questions or

[39:17] things you're curious about.

[39:18] >> We can

[39:20] before it's renewed, come in and do a

[39:22] presentation and get, you know, council

[39:24] approval for the renewal.

[39:26] So, we can do that

[39:27] >> do that towards the

[39:28] >> with plenty of time to be able to

[39:29] cancel. We'll have to look at

[39:30] cancellation period stuff. We can do an

[39:33] actual council approval on that renewal.

[39:36] >> Can we look into before that when it

[39:38] does renew like cuz if that's in 11

[39:40] months, that's a really long time.

[39:42] Obviously, we can't, you know, whatever.

[39:44] But then can you send out the current

[39:47] policy? I know it's just the generic

[39:49] policy and then maybe like a timeline of

[39:51] when we're going to write a new

[39:54] policy or look at that?

[39:59] » Yes, ma'am.

[39:59] >> Thank you.

[40:00] >> I think that that's kind of the idea

[40:01] that we're going

[40:03] >> Yeah.

[40:05] >> One of the questions that I

[40:06] I'd have is

[40:08] do we do we know what if any other

[40:11] agencies or entities

[40:13] that our data goes to or could be used

[40:14] for?

[40:18] And you may not know that. We can

[40:20] >> I mean, I think this Flock is like a national

[40:24] >> It's It's over 100,000 cameras.

[40:26] >> Yeah.

[40:26] So, there's 120,000

[40:28] >> They're tied into universities. They're

[40:29] tied into

[40:30] school systems.

[40:32] Uh

[40:33] attorney general offices

[40:34] >> Right.

[40:35] >> insurance companies

[40:36] Uh anybody can basically buy this

[40:39] information.

[40:40] >> Yeah, I'd like to kind of have an idea

[40:42] what our exposure is.

[40:44] If I may

[40:45] >> Just one clarification. There is I know

[40:47] there's third-party

[40:49] private businesses that purchase it.

[40:51] They don't get our information. They

[40:53] can't get our information because it's

[40:55] protected by NCIC and Casey changes.

[40:57] Now, to that point, if there's 10 other

[41:00] law enforcement agencies willing to

[41:02] share that that information, then yes.

[41:05] But they can't go to a private entity.

[41:08] Like you'll see them at a Walmart or

[41:11] other businesses. They don't get

[41:15] anything that's law enforcement. How

[41:16] come law enforcement

[41:18] access those if they grant them access?

[41:20] Yes.

[41:21] >> But Chief, I guess that's I guess what I

[41:23] was asking is for example I'm just being

[41:26] hypothetical here. So, let's say you made weekly trips to

[41:31] maybe

[41:32] uh Nebraska or Iowa or something like

[41:34] that. And the cameras started picking

[41:36] you up there and your insurance company

[41:38] buys information.

[41:39] And now they know that you're driving

[41:41] maybe 20,000 mi a year and

[41:44] maybe your policy is rated at 10,000 mi

[41:46] a year.

[41:47] Uh they're getting information feed

[41:49] about where your car is and that has

[41:51] been.

[41:52] Uh this stuff is so detailed they create

[41:54] a fingerprint of every car.

[41:56] Uh

[41:58] It's dents, scratches,

[42:00] bumper stickers.

[42:02] You name it. That's how this system is

[42:04] flagged to make sure the individual car.

[42:07] So, uh

[42:09] They can track movement of just about

[42:11] any vehicle for a crossing guard.

[42:14] >> Yeah, we can gather information on what

[42:16] the information is used for and

[42:18] >> Sure.

[42:19] >> what the policy is and bring that before

[42:20] council.

[42:21] >> That would be great. Thank you.

[42:24] » Okay, I have nothing further.

[42:27] Uh but we do have an executive session.

[42:31] >> [clears throat]

[42:32] >> Do we hear a motion to go into executive

[42:34] session?

[42:35] >> So moved.

[42:36] >> Second.

[42:37] >> Motion Baldwin, second McNair. We go

[42:40] into session at 7:38, returning at 7:48.

[42:44] All in favor?

[42:45] >> Aye.

[42:47] >> All opposed? Abstain?

[42:50] We're in executive session.

[42:55] » Thank you.

[49:54] » Mhm.

[53:34] » I will get you my card, man.

[53:35] >> All right.

[53:36] >> It is 7:48. I'll entertain a motion to

[53:38] meet.

[53:39] >> You're welcome.

[53:40] >> So moved.

[53:40] >> Baldwin.

[53:41] >> You're welcome.

[53:41] >> Second.

[53:42] >> Motion by Baldwin, second by D'Eletto,

[53:44] we're in regular session. All in favor?

[53:45] >> Aye.

[53:49] » Uh do I hear a motion to adjourn?

[53:51] >> So moved.

[53:51] >> Second.

[53:52] >> Motion by McKinney, second by D'Eletto,

[53:53] we adjourn. All in favor?

[53:54] >> Aye.

[53:56] >> All opposed? Abstain?

[53:57] We are adjourned. Thank you everyone.

City of Gardner Council Meeting 08/03/2026

Transcript