[0:00] Good evening, I'd like to call to order

[0:01] this public hearing for the council for

[0:04] the Borough of Gettysburg.

[0:05] Monday, February 2nd, 2026, 6:30 p.m.

[0:10] Um we do need to record a roll call of

[0:13] everybody in the room. Uh so we will

[0:15] start over here with Sergeant Evans.

[0:17] We'll go around

[0:19] the table this way. And then we need to

[0:20] work our way back and forth through the

[0:22] gallery. Everybody needs to say their

[0:24] name out loud, please.

[0:26] Um Sergeant Evans, please.

[0:28] >> Sergeant Christopher Evans.

[0:29] >> Thank you.

[0:31] >> Mayor Chad Alencar.

[0:34] » Kimberly Myers.

[0:37] >> William Mooney.

[0:39] >> Chris Berger.

[0:40] >> Alicia Sanders.

[0:41] >> Matthew Moon.

[0:44] » Peter Bales.

[0:46] >> Jeff Rio.

[0:48] >> Sarah Stoll, Borough Secretary.

[0:50] >> Charles Gable, Borough Manager.

[0:52] >> John Whitmore, Planning Director.

[0:55] >> Chad Clebowicz, Engineer.

[0:57] >> All right. Uh Ella, would you mind

[0:59] stating your name for the records in the

[1:01] hearing, please?

[1:01] >> Yeah.

[1:03] Elizabeth Prieto.

[1:04] >> Thank you.

[1:05] >> Stacey Steffan.

[1:06] >> All right, over here, please.

[1:07] >> Harlan Lawson.

[1:09] >> Alaina Murray.

[1:11] >> Thank you.

[1:13] And then in the back.

[1:15] Thank you.

[1:15] >> Jennifer Daniels.

[1:16] >> Thank you.

[1:18] >> Cindy Small.

[1:19] >> Carolyn Waggaman.

[1:20] >> Mary Grace Kaufman.

[1:21] >> Troy Dean.

[1:23] >> Kelly O'Connor.

[1:24] >> All right. Did we miss anybody? Did

[1:26] everybody state their name and is

[1:27] everybody signed in?

[1:30] All right, thank you all.

[1:35] Um

[1:37] Mr. Lawson, would you like to take the

[1:38] podium?

[1:39] >> Thank you.

[1:44] » [snorts]

[1:48] » Are you ready for me to start my

[1:49] presentation?

[1:50] >> Certainly.

[1:50] >> Great.

[1:51] So my name is Harlan Lawson. I work with

[1:53] GMS Funding Solutions. I'm assisting the

[1:57] Adams County Children's Advocacy Center

[1:59] with their brighter tomorrow center

[2:00] renovations project.

[2:02] Um I'd like to first start out by

[2:03] thanking the borough staff for their

[2:05] collaboration and coordination getting

[2:07] this meeting scheduled and then

[2:09] rescheduled with the weather event we we

[2:11] received about a week ago. I appreciate

[2:13] you all your efforts on that front.

[2:16] Each year approximately 12% of the um

[2:20] state's CDBG allocation is set aside for

[2:24] the discretionary CDBG program.

[2:26] Any eligible Act 179 entitlement borough

[2:29] like Gettysburg is able to apply to that

[2:31] program if 75% or more of their most

[2:35] recent entitlement allocation is

[2:36] approved for a project.

[2:38] Um as we were we were fortunate enough

[2:40] to be selected for the borough's FY 2025

[2:43] entitlement allocation

[2:45] and that unlocks our ability to apply.

[2:48] So as a follow-up to that we would like

[2:50] to um submit a $1.2 million request to

[2:54] the discretionary CDBG program,

[2:56] sometimes referred to as the competitive

[2:58] CDBG program, for the brighter tomorrow

[3:00] center renovation project.

[3:03] The CAC is currently um located at 450

[3:07] West Middle Street where they provide a

[3:08] limited number of services. Those

[3:10] services are limited to what they could

[3:12] provide due to layout and security

[3:15] constraints. The renovations at 224

[3:18] Baltimore Street will provide ample room

[3:21] to accommodate the CAC's wide array of

[3:23] programs and services including child

[3:25] abuse investigations, forensic

[3:27] interviews, medical exams and clinical

[3:30] care, and mental health services.

[3:33] The project itself is eligible under the

[3:36] areas benefiting low and moderate income

[3:38] persons national objective

[3:41] via the limited clientele category

[3:43] as abused children are considered a

[3:45] presumed benefit population.

[3:48] Any renovations or improvements

[3:50] constructed at the facility will

[3:51] directly expand the CA's the CAC's

[3:54] ability to provide services to that

[3:56] presumed benefit population.

[3:59] Since our last presentation, we were

[4:01] fortunate to receive $500,000 from the

[4:04] local share account grant towards the

[4:06] project. This was a grant program that

[4:07] we applied for

[4:09] in 2024 and we were awarded funds

[4:11] towards the end of 2025.

[4:14] We also toured the DCED Deputy Secretary

[4:17] Rick Valello

[4:19] at the facility in January and received

[4:21] very encouraging feedback from the

[4:23] Deputy Secretary on the project's

[4:24] competitiveness for the discretionary

[4:27] CDBG program.

[4:29] So with that, on behalf of the

[4:31] Children's Advocacy Center, I'd like to

[4:32] respectfully request that the Borough

[4:34] Council entertain a resolution to apply

[4:37] to the competitive CDBG program for $1.2

[4:40] million

[4:41] for the Brighter Tomorrows Center

[4:42] Renovations project and I'm happy to

[4:44] answer any questions that the the

[4:45] Council may have

[4:47] on that request. Thank you.

[4:50] >> All right. Um,

[4:51] do we ask questions in a hearing? I

[4:53] don't think we do, do we?

[4:54] >> No.

[4:55] Um, so alas, we are not able to ask you

[4:57] any questions this evening, but for the

[4:59] folks who came in, do please record your

[5:01] names for us. Thank you.

[5:03] Um

[5:05] Is there any other information we need

[5:07] to discuss at this moment?

[5:10] >> Just a procedural matter. If you do have

[5:12] questions,

[5:14] you would be able to ask those at the

[5:16] formal business meeting, which will be

[5:18] after this.

[5:19] >> Right.

[5:20] All right. So at this point, we are here

[5:22] to accept public comment on this

[5:24] application.

[5:25] Thank you, Mr. Mr. Lawson. So is there

[5:27] anybody here who would like to speak for

[5:29] or against this intended use?

[5:37] » Can I We weren't

[5:39] expecting to say anything, but we're all

[5:41] here

[5:42] in support.

[5:44] >> Okay. Did anybody You to make a

[5:45] statement?

[5:47] This is a public hearing, so we're here

[5:48] to hear your your statements.

[5:54] » This is a prior board member, but

[5:57] >> I know. [laughter] I know, Irene. I

[5:59] know.

[6:00] We need you to state your name and your

[6:02] address, please.

[6:03] >> My name is Irene Powell.

[6:05] And I live at 212 Springs Avenue.

[6:08] Uh

[6:09] a few houses down from Matt and around

[6:11] the corner from Chris.

[6:12] Um I'm a not a current board member, but

[6:15] I have been for 6 years and I'll come

[6:17] back again in June.

[6:18] We've been working on this quest

[6:22] for many years because the Children's

[6:25] Advocacy Center has long outgrown the

[6:28] capacity of their current location

[6:31] on Middle Street.

[6:33] So, this is

[6:34] a greatly needed thing for all of the

[6:36] children in this county

[6:38] and their caregivers.

[6:40] And it's it's really really important.

[6:43] But, I do want to add

[6:45] this is a really neat old building

[6:48] right on Baltimore Street

[6:50] and we're going to comply and fully

[6:52] intend to have it

[6:55] face the community the way it has for

[6:58] I don't know how many years. And it's

[7:00] one of the only properties that has a

[7:02] front lawn.

[7:04] So, we're going to take good care to

[7:06] preserve everything as best as possible

[7:09] and be an integral part of the whole

[7:12] downtown community, participate in

[7:15] celebrations,

[7:17] be present. We will be there for

[7:18] everybody. I just wanted to add that

[7:20] little bit. Thank you.

[7:21] >> Thank you, Irene.

[7:23] Is there any other statements?

[7:34] » Hello. Thank you for the opportunity to

[7:35] speak. I'm Cindy Small. I'm the vice

[7:38] president of the board of the Children's

[7:39] Advocacy Center. And I think it might be

[7:41] important to point out what might happen

[7:44] if we are not able to move into this

[7:48] expanded space. Currently, we're really

[7:52] able to to

[7:54] with utmost privacy

[7:57] serve one child at a time in the old

[8:01] overstuffed house

[8:04] uh we are grateful for this house and

[8:06] for the members of the community that

[8:09] started the CAC over 20 years ago. But

[8:13] what we have done as an organization

[8:16] is we've grown from a service that

[8:19] provides the very basic most required

[8:23] services for these children in the

[8:25] immediate time where they may need to uh

[8:29] be seen or have to make an appearance in

[8:31] court

[8:33] to working with these children as they

[8:37] grow into teenagers and into adults. We

[8:41] are with them for life, we tell them. We

[8:44] do not discharge

[8:46] these children at the end of a forensic

[8:49] interview or at the end of mental health

[8:53] services. We tell them and their

[8:55] families, which is another extension of

[8:58] what we do, that we uh will provide

[9:02] these services. Therefore, this house

[9:05] that we would be

[9:06] uh rehabilitating

[9:09] will also provide support services for

[9:12] the families. We have um

[9:15] support groups for teenagers

[9:18] that goes, let's say if it extends for 6

[9:21] weeks, we've had the teenagers in the

[9:23] support groups ask us if they could stay

[9:26] for another 6 weeks because of the

[9:29] difference that it provides for them in

[9:31] their lives. So I guess it is really an

[9:34] example of the fact that we've expanded

[9:37] our services to encompass these young

[9:41] children and their families as they grow

[9:44] so that they can be healthy adults in

[9:46] our community

[9:48] and can appreciate a good life because

[9:52] of us being able to have the room to

[9:54] provide the extra services that are

[9:57] really important for them to move

[9:59] forward. Thank you for the opportunity.

[10:01] >> All right, thank you.

[10:03] Uh for everybody who just entered the

[10:04] room, we are in the middle of a hearing.

[10:06] If you intend to stay in the room, we do

[10:07] need you to sign in at the podium.

[10:10] Is there any further public comment?

[10:13] Thank you.

[10:16] » Hi, I'm Alida Murray, the executive

[10:18] director of the Adams County Children's

[10:20] Advocacy Center and uh the hopeful executive director of the

[10:24] Future Bright Tomorrow's Center. So, I

[10:26] thought um you know, I've got our board

[10:29] members here doing a wonderful job of

[10:31] explaining what the what the value is

[10:33] long-term to the community, but I

[10:34] thought it would be helpful

[10:36] in the here and now to give you a sense

[10:38] of the numbers that we are talking about

[10:40] in terms of what's happening within our

[10:42] Adams County community. So, in 2025, the

[10:46] Adams County Children's Advocacy Center

[10:48] conducted received referrals for 538

[10:52] referrals across Adams County.

[10:55] We served at our little one child at a

[10:58] time center at 450 West Middle Street

[11:01] 244 children accompanied by their family

[11:04] members, meaning their non-offending

[11:06] caregivers and their siblings or other

[11:08] family members. So, think about in the

[11:10] scope of a year one at a time 244

[11:13] children walk through our doors.

[11:15] Um and what an amazing difference it

[11:17] would make to have be able to be able to

[11:18] provide an additional level of support

[11:21] for who however many of those other

[11:24] remaining of the 538 kids who we weren't

[11:27] able to serve.

[11:29] Um

[11:30] to put a number on it in terms of

[11:32] Gettysburg and Gettysburg um

[11:35] the Gettysburg area, the areas um that

[11:38] is served by Gettysburg area school

[11:39] district, 24% of our kids come from

[11:42] Gettysburg area school district

[11:44] residences. So, the um in terms of what

[11:47] the borough and the and the kind of

[11:49] surrounding areas, that's 24% of the

[11:51] service continuum here in Adams County

[11:54] to put a reference on that. So, um yes,

[11:58] the decision, if you were to make the

[11:59] decision and I hope you do to um

[12:03] to approve this resolution, it's not

[12:05] just a today decision, but it's a

[12:06] forever decision for kids in Adams

[12:08] County. So, thank you for your

[12:09] consideration.

[12:11] >> Thank you. Any further public comment?

[12:16] All right, seeing none, we will adjourn

[12:18] to our next special meeting.

[12:33] business meeting for the Borough Council

[12:34] for the Borough of Gettysburg for

[12:36] Monday, February 2nd, 2026 6:50 p.m.

[12:40] that we are commencing at 6:44 p.m.

[12:48] All right. Uh so, we only have one

[12:50] matter of business before us here, and

[12:52] that is a potential resolution to

[12:55] support uh this this application for

[12:57] grant funding. Uh Mr. Whitmer, could you

[12:59] please give us the pertinent facts?

[13:03] » This is a complement to the prior FY2025

[13:07] CDBG project. It's basically the you

[13:11] you've uh

[13:12] they've been able to attain a certain

[13:13] level of funding through the um

[13:17] uh the guaranteed funds associated with

[13:19] being a state entitlement community.

[13:22] Uh this will allow them to then stretch

[13:24] the dollars to the 1.2 million as

[13:26] presented earlier at the public hearing.

[13:29] Um specific project um

[13:32] details and such I would recommend

[13:34] asking the applicant specific questions.

[13:36] >> Okay.

[13:37] So, a little background for council

[13:39] members. Uh last year we did vote to

[13:42] allocate our CDBG funds for the year uh

[13:44] to this project.

[13:46] Um I'm going to sort of loosely

[13:47] paraphrase the story, but essentially

[13:49] what we are providing them is seed money

[13:51] to begin their actual fundraising

[13:54] campaign. They needed to establish that

[13:56] they had the support and the financial

[13:58] support of the municipality to open up

[14:00] this other funding stream for them.

[14:02] So, if we were to adopt this resolution

[14:04] this evening, what we would be doing is

[14:06] continuing um

[14:09] to help them find the funding they need.

[14:12] Um I don't believe we're actually voting

[14:14] to contribute any additional funds

[14:15] ourselves at this point. Is that

[14:17] correct? All right.

[14:19] Does anybody have any questions for Mr.

[14:20] Lawson?

[14:25] Okay. Would anybody care to make the

[14:26] motion?

[14:28] >> I will.

[14:29] >> Um Matt, do we have to do It says public

[14:31] comment before.

[14:32] >> Oh, you're right. I'm so sorry.

[14:33] Uh is there any public comment before we

[14:35] do that?

[14:36] >> I'm so sorry. Thank you.

[14:38] >> Okay.

[14:39] Would anybody care to make that

[14:40] resolution?

[14:41] >> Sure.

[14:42] Going to read from the board.

[14:44] Um a motion to adopt resolution number

[14:46] 0122626

[14:50] authorizing the submission of an

[14:51] application to the Pennsylvania

[14:52] Department of Community and Economic

[14:54] Development by the Borough of Gettysburg

[14:56] for grant funding through the

[14:58] competitive Community Development Block

[15:00] Grant CB CDBG-C

[15:03] program to support the Adams County

[15:06] Children's Advocacy Center Writer

[15:07] Tomorrow's Center renovation project at

[15:10] 224 Baltimore Street within the Borough

[15:13] of Gettysburg. Charles R. Gable, MPA,

[15:16] Borough Manager and Sarah L. Stoll,

[15:18] Borough Secretary are are authorized to

[15:21] sign, attest, execute, and deliver any

[15:23] necessary application forms and

[15:25] documents required for the submission of

[15:28] the CDBG-C Grant Program application.

[15:31] >> Is there a second?

[15:33] >> Second.

[15:33] >> We have a motion and a second. Is there

[15:35] any discussion?

[15:39] All those in favor, please say I.

[15:41] >> I.

[15:42] Any opposed?

[15:44] All right, that motion carries. Is there

[15:45] any additional public comment on this

[15:47] matter?

[15:50] All right, thank you all. We are

[15:51] adjourned.

[16:00] Good evening, everybody. I'd like to

[16:01] call to order

[16:03] this workshop for the Borough of

[16:04] Gettysburg Borough Council

[16:07] for February 2nd, 2026.

[16:10] We do have a very full room tonight, so

[16:12] I just like to remind everybody, please

[16:14] make sure you've signed in at the door,

[16:15] particularly if you intend to speak this

[16:17] evening.

[16:18] And what a lovely moment this would be

[16:19] for everybody to silence their phones.

[16:22] Okay.

[16:24] Uh couple announcements.

[16:26] An executive session was conducted by

[16:27] the Borough Council of the Borough of

[16:29] Gettysburg immediately following the

[16:30] adjournment of its monthly general

[16:32] business meeting held on January 12th,

[16:34] 2026, consistent with Section of the

[16:37] Sunshine Act.

[16:40] An executive session of the Borough

[16:42] Council will be conducted immediately

[16:43] following the adjournment of this

[16:45] evening's monthly work session meeting,

[16:47] consistent with Section 708 A1, Section

[16:49] 708 A5 of the Sunshine Act, for the

[16:52] following purposes. One, to provide

[16:54] updated information and to discuss

[16:56] matters involving the employment or

[16:58] appointment of current or prospective

[17:00] Borough employees, and two, to review

[17:02] and discuss matters of Borough business,

[17:03] which if conducted in public could lead

[17:05] to the disclosure of information or

[17:07] confidentiality protected by law.

[17:10] Uh we do not have any special

[17:12] presentations this evening, so we'll

[17:13] move directly into our first public

[17:15] comment section of the evening. This

[17:17] section is reserved for items appearing

[17:19] on tonight's agenda.

[17:21] Uh we ask that you use the podium, speak

[17:23] directly into the microphone, please

[17:24] state your name and your address of

[17:26] residence,

[17:27] and please limit yourself to 5 minutes.

[17:30] If you do approach the 5-minute mark, I

[17:31] will ask you to conclude your thoughts

[17:33] as it seems there might be multiple

[17:35] people who would like to speak this

[17:36] evening.

[17:38] Uh is there any public comment?

[17:42] » [snorts]

[17:47] » Since everyone's storming, I'll go

[17:48] first.

[17:49] >> Thank you.

[17:50] >> [clears throat]

[17:50] >> My name is Miranda Weiser. My home

[17:52] address is 30 Musket Drive, Gettysburg.

[17:54] My work address is 140 Baltimore Street,

[17:57] where I am the executive director of the

[17:59] Adams County Library System.

[18:01] First, I want to recognize and thank the

[18:04] many library supporters that are in the

[18:05] audience this evening. So, thank you for

[18:08] coming out and supporting us.

[18:11] Community members with I'm speaking to

[18:14] uh number of 300 new business PB 222-4,

[18:19] the expansion of the historic district.

[18:22] Community members with close connection

[18:24] to HARB have approached us at the

[18:26] library to tell us that this is a move

[18:28] to control the library's future

[18:30] development plans on the south side of

[18:32] the seminary campus, and in doing so,

[18:35] perhaps usurp the Borough Council's

[18:37] authority.

[18:39] While I don't want to speculate to the

[18:41] validity of these rumors or why anyone

[18:44] would want to injure the economic

[18:46] liberty of an institution

[18:49] dedicated to to the public good, the

[18:51] functional outcome of this expansion

[18:54] will be exactly what the rumors assert.

[18:57] This change will make future development

[18:59] for the library system

[19:01] and any other property owner in the area

[19:04] significantly more challenging and

[19:06] expensive.

[19:08] The properties and landmarks of genuine

[19:10] historic significance within this area

[19:13] are already preserved through the

[19:14] Seminary Ridge Historic Preservation

[19:17] Foundation.

[19:19] And view shed protections from the

[19:21] National Park Service.

[19:24] These those structures in the area that

[19:26] merit historic Civil War era oversight

[19:30] currently fall within the existing

[19:31] harbor responsibilities.

[19:34] Expanding the district further would

[19:36] therefore create overlapping layers of

[19:38] regulation without providing meaningful

[19:41] additional preservation benefits.

[19:45] Instead, such an expansion would have

[19:47] negative consequences.

[19:49] It will significantly restrict

[19:51] development, rehabilitation, and

[19:54] adaptive reuse, particularly for

[19:57] buildings constructed in the 1960s and

[19:59] 1970s

[20:00] that do not possess the same historic

[20:02] character or significance of other

[20:05] protected buildings.

[20:07] These structures require flexibility for

[20:10] modernization in order to remain

[20:12] functional, economically viable, and

[20:15] align with the contemporary building

[20:17] standards of today.

[20:19] Imposing historic regulations on these

[20:22] later era buildings would discourage

[20:23] investment, slow redevelopment, and

[20:26] hinder the area's ability to evolve

[20:28] responsibly.

[20:30] Preservation and progress are not

[20:32] mutually exclusive.

[20:34] And the current framework

[20:36] existing already strikes a reasonable

[20:39] balance between protecting truly

[20:41] historic assets while allowing

[20:44] appropriate growth elsewhere.

[20:47] For these reasons, I urge the council to

[20:49] deny the proposed expansion exploration

[20:52] and to maintain the existing historic

[20:54] district boundaries. Doing so will

[20:57] preserve our community's heritage

[20:59] without unnecessarily constraining

[21:01] development, modernization,

[21:04] or economic vitality. Thank you.

[21:07] >> Thank you.

[21:08] Public comment.

[21:13] » Good evening. My name is Judy Morley. My

[21:15] home address is 1210 White Church Road,

[21:18] Gettysburg. My work address is 61

[21:20] Seminary Ridge,

[21:22] Gettysburg. I am the president of the

[21:24] Seminary Ridge Historic Preservation

[21:26] Foundation. I am also the author of um

[21:30] several books and articles on historic

[21:32] preservation policy, and it is what I

[21:34] got my doctoral dissertation what I did

[21:36] my doctoral dissertation on. My books

[21:38] are still required reading in city

[21:39] planning

[21:40] uh curricula throughout the United

[21:42] States. I don't say that to brag. I say

[21:44] that to say that I stand before you

[21:45] today as someone who understands the

[21:47] balance between historic preservation

[21:49] and development. And there must always,

[21:51] for a community to stay vital, there

[21:53] must always be a balance between

[21:55] historic preservation and development.

[21:57] When you lose that balance, you get

[21:59] Disneyland or you get Colonial

[22:02] Williamsburg.

[22:03] And we are a community where people live

[22:06] and work as well as come to visit.

[22:09] So, the Seminary Ridge area already has

[22:11] multiple layers of protection, as

[22:14] Miranda referenced. Not only are we the

[22:17] Seminary Ridge Historic Preservation

[22:18] Foundation, but our Civil War era

[22:21] buildings are part of the Harb

[22:23] Ordinance. So, Schmucker Hall, Schmucker

[22:25] House, and Crap House are already

[22:27] protected by Harb. Um

[22:30] we have National Park Service view shed

[22:33] uh

[22:35] requirements. We have an American

[22:37] Battlefield Trust easement on our

[22:38] property. And of course, the

[22:40] constrictions of any zoning within the

[22:42] Borough of Gettysburg. And so, that

[22:45] property is already well protected. I

[22:47] believe that if the expansion of the

[22:50] historic district goes through, that it

[22:52] will tip the balance from a healthy

[22:55] balance between preservation and

[22:58] community development to one that is

[23:00] overly bureaucratically weighted toward

[23:04] preservation when not really necessary.

[23:07] So, I too urge that the borough council

[23:10] do not uh consider the expansion of the

[23:13] historic district into Seminary Ridge.

[23:15] Thank you.

[23:17] >> Thank you. Public comment.

[23:30] » [clears throat]

[23:31] >> My name is Janelle Woodsberger.

[23:33] Um my home address is 3359 East Lincoln

[23:35] Avenue in Gettysburg. My work address is

[23:38] 300 North Washington Street.

[23:40] I'm speaking this evening against HARB's

[23:42] recommendation to create a new Seminary

[23:44] Ridge Historic District. Imposing new uh

[23:48] {quote} guiding principles, as HARB

[23:50] claims, is just not necessary at this

[23:53] gateway. More importantly, new

[23:55] restrictions are likely to negatively

[23:56] impact the construction of the new

[23:58] Gettysburg Public Library in that area

[24:00] of town. The benefits of having a

[24:03] purpose-built modern library available

[24:06] to our citizens far outweigh the

[24:08] architectural value of dormitories built

[24:10] in the mid-20th century, which are

[24:12] riddled with environmental problems that

[24:14] will be very expensive to remediate.

[24:16] Furthermore, the Seminary has expressed

[24:18] no interest in remediating them as their

[24:20] institution undergoes changes in student

[24:22] population after the merger. HARB's

[24:24] recommendation is simply unnecessary at

[24:26] the structure. Thank you.

[24:29] >> Thank you.

[24:30] Public comment.

[24:41] When we have these pauses, don't be shy.

[24:43] We can line folks up. That's not a problem. So.

[24:49] » Uh good evening. Um my name is Todd

[24:51] Maritz. I live on 61 East Broadway in

[24:53] Gettysburg.

[24:54] Um I've lived in the borough for more

[24:56] than 30 years and then the county for

[24:58] more than 50 years.

[25:00] I'm a library member.

[25:02] Uh I've been a library member for most

[25:03] of that time and a board member for more

[25:05] than 10 years.

[25:08] All the other branches of the library

[25:09] system have dedicated buildings that I

[25:12] believe except for New Oxford, but that

[25:14] includes Biglerville and East Berlin.

[25:18] Gettysburg does not. When I first came

[25:20] here, the library was in this building,

[25:23] the old prison. Um

[25:26] it's been beautifully repurposed,

[25:28] but um

[25:30] and then the library moved to the post

[25:32] office, which is also not a library

[25:35] building.

[25:36] So, um

[25:39] after many years of thought and

[25:42] discussion about what the library should do, whether it

[25:47] should stay where it is or move, um it's

[25:50] the the decision has been to

[25:53] uh to move to the area by the seminary,

[25:57] uh which though I believe the library

[25:58] has purchased. I don't know the

[25:59] financial

[26:01] uh

[26:02] what the uh

[26:03] how what the outcome would be if if this

[26:06] were prevented, because I think

[26:09] if the historic district were expanded

[26:12] as proposed, it would prevent the

[26:14] construction of the new library.

[26:18] I strongly oppose that and uh it makes

[26:21] no sense. It would result in a

[26:24] tremendous financial and social cost to

[26:26] the community.

[26:28] The library is one of the most important

[26:30] institutions in this in this community.

[26:32] Um it serves the central library in

[26:36] Gettysburg serves not only the borough,

[26:39] but I believe Straban and Cumberland

[26:41] Townships, which do not have their own

[26:43] library.

[26:44] So, more than 75,000 people walk into

[26:49] the library every year.

[26:51] Um

[26:52] and as you know uh uh

[26:55] parking is a a huge problem. The new

[26:58] library would

[26:59] um

[27:00] alleviate that problem.

[27:03] Um please don't prevent um the the move

[27:06] of the library to

[27:08] the proposed location. Thanks very much.

[27:12] >> Thank you, Don.

[27:13] Public comment.

[27:20] Please don't be shy.

[27:28] » Good evening, members of council. My

[27:29] name is Brandon Stone. I live at 358

[27:31] Park Street and I'm the chairman of

[27:33] HARB.

[27:35] Thank you.

[27:36] I just wanted to briefly note that at

[27:38] our December meeting, the Historic

[27:40] Architectural Review Board voted

[27:42] unanimously to recommend the creation of

[27:44] the Seminary Ridge Historic District.

[27:47] This proposal includes the Lutheran

[27:49] Seminary and the surrounding properties

[27:51] along 116 in West Confederate Avenue,

[27:54] which together form one of the borough's

[27:56] primary historic entry corridors.

[28:00] This recommendation follows the same

[28:02] rationale used by this council in 1999

[28:06] when the historic district was extended

[28:09] to protect the key with gateways into

[28:11] the borough.

[28:12] The Seminary Ridge represents the last

[28:14] remaining unprotected entry of that

[28:17] kind.

[28:19] Tonight, no action is required.

[28:22] The intent was simply to make the

[28:23] council and the public aware that the

[28:26] recommendation is complete

[28:28] and available should we wish to continue

[28:31] it as this year's priorities for

[28:33] council,

[28:34] including the upcoming chapter 11

[28:37] ordinance updates and recommendations to

[28:39] update the design guides. Together,

[28:42] working with the public, we can identify

[28:44] this as It's priority.

[28:46] Thank you.

[28:48] >> Thank you, sir.

[28:50] Public comment.

[28:57] » [clears throat]

[28:59] » Good evening. My name is Angela Soma. I

[29:01] live at 44 Winding Drive in Gettysburg.

[29:04] And I am speaking in opposition to the

[29:07] expansion of the historic district. As

[29:09] has been mentioned, the important

[29:10] historic buildings in that area are

[29:12] already preserved. And as also has been

[29:14] mentioned, the library is a critical

[29:16] institution to this area and to this

[29:19] town. But it is in woeful need of

[29:21] modernization. And they do need a new

[29:24] building. As was mentioned, parking is a really is really terrible at the

[29:27] library. And I think it's important that

[29:29] there not be more impediments put into

[29:31] place to creating a a more modern,

[29:35] bigger library that can serve the

[29:36] community better. Thank you.

[29:39] >> Thank you.

[29:42] Public comment.

[29:58] » Good evening to you all.

[30:01] My name is Teresa Smallwood. I am the

[30:03] Dean and Vice President for Academic

[30:05] Affairs at United Lutheran Seminary.

[30:08] I had absolutely no intention of

[30:10] speaking tonight, but once I heard the

[30:11] gentleman say there was no need to take

[30:14] action, it just warmed my heart.

[30:17] I live in Craft House. I've been there

[30:19] for almost 5 years.

[30:21] There is no more preserved institution

[30:25] than what lies on Seminary Ridge.

[30:29] And my concern is as a resident and

[30:32] someone who lives there,

[30:34] I want to see this library come about.

[30:37] Because it is the young people. It

[30:40] is the folk who come to our institution

[30:43] who will benefit the most.

[30:45] More particularly, we need to be

[30:47] concerned about the intergenerational

[30:50] interest we have in developing our young

[30:53] people to grow up and appreciate reading

[30:56] again. Thank you.

[30:59] >> Thank you, ma'am.

[31:06] » Good evening. My name is Rob Williams.

[31:08] Um I'm an employee of Seminary Ridge

[31:10] Museum and Education Center um located

[31:12] at 61 Seminary Ridge, Gettysburg. I'm

[31:15] also a member of the Board of Trustees

[31:17] of the Adams County Library System. Um I

[31:19] would like just like to mention um and

[31:22] um remind that after a survey from the

[31:25] Adams County Historical Society, um they

[31:27] did note that the location of the

[31:29] proposed location of the new library

[31:33] is of no historical significance. Uh so,

[31:35] there is no um reason for the Historical

[31:38] Society to believe that that library

[31:39] should not be built there. And uh to my

[31:41] knowledge, the the um library project

[31:44] does currently enjoy the full support of

[31:46] the Historical Society. I would also

[31:48] like to note, to my knowledge, um none

[31:50] of the organizations in question,

[31:51] whether it's the seminary, the library,

[31:54] or our museum, were approached by any

[31:55] members of HARB for our consideration on

[31:58] this on this proposal.

[32:00] Thank you.

[32:01] >> Thank you, sir.

[32:02] Any more public comment?

[32:08] Last chance?

[32:10] All right, we'll move on. Thank you.

[32:15] Um

[32:18] It is correct, we will not be taking any

[32:19] action tonight. Um

[32:21] one of the legislative priorities that

[32:23] the council has set for this year is to

[32:26] uh take a deep dive on potentially

[32:29] repealing and replacing the HARB

[32:30] ordinance with something a little bit uh

[32:33] more contemporary and um easy to

[32:35] navigate. Um

[32:39] Every time we change an ordinance, there

[32:41] is a significant cost to the borough.

[32:43] So, it is unlikely that we would

[32:46] consider making a change to an ordinance

[32:48] that we are about to scrap. So, if

[32:51] that's the way council decides to go

[32:53] with it. So, while the um

[32:56] discussion will be had by council at

[32:57] some point this year, we're not going to

[32:59] be acting on this anytime soon. In fact,

[33:01] tonight's meeting is a workshop where we

[33:03] simply discuss ideas. Um we will not be

[33:05] taking any votes this evening.

[33:08] Uh I'd like to hand this over now to Mr.

[33:09] Whitmore, who will make his presentation

[33:12] on uh the harb issues before us.

[33:15] >> So, good evening. Um

[33:17] we do have materials that were provided

[33:19] electronically.

[33:20] Overall, the uh policy briefing summary

[33:23] provides the gist. There's two separate

[33:26] themes that have been, I guess, running

[33:28] with this that aren't necessarily

[33:30] related. A, the need to update chapter

[33:34] 11 historic districts, the actual

[33:36] ordinance text, and the associated

[33:38] Gettysburg design guide, which was last

[33:41] published in 1997.

[33:43] Um we've reached a point where these

[33:47] documents are becoming obsolete. In

[33:50] particular, as the solicitor, Mr.

[33:52] Eastman, has indicated, there are some

[33:54] were issues with the um previous draft

[33:59] of the ordinance. There have been

[34:00] modifications made by council to that

[34:02] document. But, there are still some

[34:05] issues associated with the design guide.

[34:08] Um generally, an update of this

[34:10] magnitude would involve services of um

[34:16] a, I guess, a professional associated

[34:18] with an architectural firm that has

[34:21] experience in documenting in historic

[34:23] properties. In particular, um

[34:26] we want to make sure that the design

[34:28] guide that we're establishing for the

[34:30] borough is something that's not only

[34:32] defensible for the bureau, but is also

[34:34] in keeping with Pennsylvania State

[34:36] Historic Preservation Office guidelines

[34:39] and the Department of Interior

[34:41] guidelines as they relate to historic

[34:42] properties.

[34:44] Overall,

[34:46] the

[34:47] there's that aspect and then the second

[34:49] aspect being the expansion of the

[34:51] district. At this time, that's not

[34:53] something that staff is encouraging. The

[34:55] district itself is used as a kind of

[34:58] form-based code to a certain extent,

[35:01] which were from a I guess the zoning

[35:04] perspective of it, that may be better

[35:06] handled

[35:07] with the subdivision land development

[35:09] ordinance for some aspects as it relates

[35:11] to physical block development, the

[35:14] rhythm and scale of how buildings are

[35:16] arranged, not necessarily for the

[35:19] historic district, but it could be

[35:21] something identified and reviewed.

[35:24] Overall, though, what we're what staff

[35:26] is really concerned with is more about

[35:28] the design guide ordinance itself. Um

[35:32] Yes, at this time, we've presented we

[35:35] provide you all with the information

[35:37] provided by HARB at their December

[35:39] meeting recommending study be produced

[35:42] for the expansion or creation of a new

[35:44] district. Um overall, when we're talking

[35:46] about districts, it's also important to

[35:48] remember the entirety of the bureau is

[35:50] in a federal historic district as it

[35:53] this is that relates to the

[35:56] military park. Um

[35:58] being able to

[36:01] um

[36:02] facilitate the development of buildings

[36:04] within the bureau is something that the

[36:06] comp plan encourages. It's something

[36:08] that the

[36:10] I guess there's there's a want to be

[36:12] able to establish affordable housing in

[36:14] the bureau that's also

[36:16] potentially constrained with expansion.

[36:18] So, there's a lot of things to consider

[36:20] on that aspect. It would be something I

[36:22] don't think um

[36:24] staff it prepared to do for at this

[36:26] time, but it is something we can do but

[36:29] we're not recommending.

[36:31] A lot a lot of words just came out of

[36:33] myself, a lot of rambling to a certain

[36:35] extent, but overall

[36:36] the

[36:38] what we were proposing is a process

[36:40] whereby over a period of about the end

[36:42] of this year, we'd probably be able to

[36:43] have

[36:44] the ordinance updated relatively quickly

[36:46] and on a pathway for the design guide,

[36:49] engaging with HARB in this process, and

[36:52] then be allowing for public comment

[36:54] during those meetings.

[36:56] Overall, this shouldn't be a very taxing

[36:59] process, but like I said, once if it

[37:02] becomes necessary to engage the

[37:04] a professional architect in these their

[37:07] services, then we'll be able to evaluate

[37:10] any potential grant funding through uh

[37:12] SHPO.

[37:14] So.

[37:16] >> All right. Questions for Mr. Wilmer.

[37:22] All right.

[37:23] Uh so, we had previously been counseled

[37:26] by our solicitor that um perhaps we can

[37:29] look to some sort of uh model ordinance,

[37:33] uh something that is derived directly

[37:35] from the empowering state legislation.

[37:38] Um we

[37:40] our uh ordinance goes back about

[37:44] 60 years-ish

[37:46] and has had

[37:48] um

[37:49] multiple revisions and iterations that

[37:51] sometimes conflict, which is is causing

[37:53] issues. So, uh we think there's probably

[37:55] a path for a much um

[37:57] simpler approach to this, so that is

[37:59] something uh Mr. Whitmore, I believe,

[38:01] will be digging into with the solicitor

[38:03] in the coming months.

[38:04] Um

[38:05] in the uh interim, I would ask that

[38:07] members continue to identif- um

[38:09] familiarize yourselves with um

[38:11] documentation as it's provided to you.

[38:13] Um

[38:14] it would be beneficial that we all

[38:15] understand the full

[38:17] uh history of HARB within the borough.

[38:20] Um any questions for Mr. Whitmore?

[38:24] Anything else from you?

[38:25] >> Uh, that's all on this topic. Thank you.

[38:26] >> Thank you. Uh, Mr. Claybaugh.

[38:36] » Oh, man, he's going to the podium.

[38:46] So, I'm going to talk to you about

[38:48] street work. And before I get started,

[38:50] I'm guessing that majority of the people

[38:52] in this room are not here to listen to

[38:54] me talk about street work. So, I won't

[38:56] be offended at all if you get up in the

[38:58] middle of my presentation.

[39:00] No, I I love street work, and I hope you

[39:02] do, too, but I won't be upset.

[39:04] >> Okay, stand up.

[39:05] >> [laughter]

[39:08] » I didn't want this to be this awkward

[39:10] where somebody gets upset.

[39:12] >> [laughter]

[39:17] » But, you need streets to get to the

[39:18] library.

[39:19] >> Yeah, you do need streets to get to the

[39:20] library,

[39:21] and to all of our historic districts.

[39:25] So, so, um,

[39:27] the the main reason for my presentation

[39:29] today is because on your agenda next

[39:32] week, I'm going to be asking for an

[39:33] authorization to advertise the 2026

[39:36] street work. So, I wanted to go over a

[39:38] little bit what uh the scope of that

[39:40] project, talk to you about a few changes

[39:43] I'd like to make to the scope um from

[39:45] what was in your 2026 budget, and um

[39:48] kind of go over the schedule of the

[39:49] project for you. So, just kind of tee

[39:51] you up for the decision that you need to

[39:53] make next week.

[39:56] So, first we'll talk about the budget.

[39:59] Um,

[40:00] what you had in your budget is this

[40:02] number right here, the 363,000.

[40:04] And that incorporated two different

[40:06] things. It was It was $284,000

[40:09] worth of street preservation, base

[40:11] repair, that those kind of things, and

[40:13] also the $79,000

[40:16] um for the Steinwehr crosswalks. Uh two

[40:18] different

[40:20] budget items in your budget, but we put

[40:22] them all together and we bid them all

[40:24] together. Now, here's the complicated

[40:25] part is that we actually bid the

[40:27] crosswalks with the base repairs that go

[40:30] with the street because it's like type

[40:32] of work for contractors separate from

[40:34] the preservation. The preservation that

[40:36] we propose is this is there's there's

[40:38] crack sealing and then we put down a

[40:40] high-performance chip seal, which is

[40:43] a glorified chip seal with with

[40:44] high-performance chips that lock

[40:46] together a little bit better. They don't

[40:47] whip off so much. They're used in

[40:49] downtown settings and not like state

[40:52] roads out in farmland. Um and then we

[40:54] cover those high high-performance chips

[40:57] with this fog seal. And that's really

[40:59] the secret behind this this preservation

[41:01] treatment is this uh we call it a a

[41:03] griptight is is the

[41:05] formal name. Generic name is fog seal.

[41:09] Um but we cover that with this

[41:10] griptight. We've done this in a lot of

[41:11] streets in the past.

[41:13] Um Ridge, Howard, Washington High. Those

[41:16] are a few streets that we've done. And this is kind of a tried-and-true

[41:19] practice and we're we're really happy

[41:21] with it. Um so that's what we'd like to

[41:23] do again. There's only a certain amount

[41:25] of contractors that do this. There's

[41:26] only three that I know of. We had Martin

[41:28] that did it 5 years ago. AMS does it.

[41:31] Russell Standard. Um so we kind of bid

[41:33] that separately because we know what

[41:35] kind of contractors that come in and do

[41:37] the preservation. We bid that separate

[41:38] from all the rest of the street work. Um

[41:40] so that's kind of how this presentation

[41:42] is going to go. I'm going to talk to you

[41:43] a little bit about this $120,000 another

[41:45] line item and then I'll talk to you

[41:46] about the the Steinwehr crosswalks and

[41:48] then I'll go back to the preservation.

[41:49] Now, the streets that are in this

[41:50] $120,000 line item and the streets that

[41:53] are in the preservation are the exact

[41:54] same streets.

[41:55] So before we put the preservation down,

[41:58] we first fix all the potholes, all of

[42:00] the base repairs, and then we come

[42:01] through and make the whole thing black.

[42:04] So again, you what what you have

[42:05] budgeted is 600 or or 363,000.

[42:09] If you add up all of these numbers, you

[42:11] get to 348,000.

[42:13] >> [clears throat]

[42:13] >> So, we're a little bit under the budget,

[42:15] and one of the questions I'm going to

[42:15] have for you at the end of this is

[42:17] whether you want me to bid it this way,

[42:19] or do you want me to add one of the

[42:20] streets that I cut from this to be able

[42:21] to get below the budget, and that's

[42:22] Constitution. I'll get to that later in

[42:24] the conversation.

[42:27] >> [clears throat]

[42:27] >> Okay, so here's the streets. Um this top

[42:30] list of streets here is in your 2026

[42:32] budget.

[42:33] The bottom list of streets is what I'd

[42:35] like to change it to.

[42:39] This top list First, let me go back and

[42:41] say that this list of streets is

[42:43] something that Robbie and I developed

[42:45] over 5 years ago. When we developed the capital improvement plan, our CIP, 5

[42:49] years ago, that's where a large amount

[42:51] of these streets came from, and we just

[42:52] basically cut and pasted that into your

[42:53] 2026 budget. Um

[42:57] A lot of things have changed since 5

[42:58] years ago. There's utility work, you

[43:00] know, Columbia Gas does some stuff, we

[43:02] do some curb ramps, so there's some

[43:03] reasons why we wanted to change a couple

[43:05] of things. Plus, some of those streets

[43:07] have degraded to a point where it just

[43:08] doesn't make sense to do them with a

[43:10] preservation anymore.

[43:12] Um and then there was one Locust here

[43:14] that were that we're adding. So, the the

[43:15] things that are in red are the streets

[43:17] I'd like to cut from the list. The

[43:19] things that are in green are the the

[43:20] street that I would like to add to the

[43:22] list. So, Fourth Street, the reason I

[43:24] want to cut that from the list is

[43:25] because it's an $83,000

[43:27] line item just for the base repair, and

[43:30] then the preser- preservation is another

[43:31] 17,000. It's close to $100,000

[43:35] to preserve that street. For $100,000,

[43:38] you could basically mill and overlay

[43:40] that street. Brand new hot mix asphalt,

[43:42] not a preservation treatment. Um

[43:44] and the reason why it's so expensive is

[43:46] because the base has in the past 5 years

[43:48] failed to a point where it's about 50%

[43:50] of it that needs to be replaced. There's

[43:52] some details over here that just show

[43:53] you the different methods of base repair

[43:55] that we do. We basically mill out that

[43:58] the bad areas, there's potholes, and

[44:00] replace them with hot mix asphalt before

[44:02] we make the whole thing black.

[44:04] Whenever you get to close to 50% of the

[44:05] street, it doesn't make sense

[44:07] financially

[44:09] to do that anymore. Then it's better

[44:10] just to bring in a big milling machine

[44:12] and just do the entire street. So, I

[44:13] like to cut that one for that reason.

[44:15] And the And by the way, the the cost

[44:16] estimate that I gave you on the previous

[44:18] slide already excluded these these red

[44:21] line items.

[44:24] Constitution, I would I'm going to come

[44:25] back to that one. We We cut that one out

[44:27] of there to get below the budget, but

[44:29] I'm not so sure that I want to remove

[44:31] that one. That might one I might be

[44:33] want to stick back in, but I I'll talk

[44:34] to you about the budget for that one

[44:35] later. And then the last one is Queen

[44:37] Street. The reason why we want to cut

[44:38] that one is because Columbia Gas has

[44:40] come to us and they want to do a

[44:41] significant significant amount of work

[44:43] in Cool Park. Um and they're going to be

[44:46] chopping up that street. So, it doesn't

[44:47] make sense for us to put any money into

[44:48] it now.

[44:50] And then lastly, um down here is Locust

[44:52] Avenue. So, this is the the street that

[44:54] right at the bottom of Hillcrest.

[44:56] Everybody knows where Hillcrest is and

[44:57] Locust. Locust comes right off of of uh

[45:00] Baltimore Street and intersects at the

[45:01] bottom of the hill at Hillcrest.

[45:03] Whenever we did the preservation on

[45:05] Hill- Hillcrest 5 years ago, um we

[45:08] included Locust. I'm not sure why that

[45:10] wasn't included in the list this time,

[45:11] but it makes sense for those two to stay

[45:12] together. And it's not extreme uh uh

[45:15] a lot a lot of money to do that one.

[45:16] $85,000 to add that one.

[45:19] So, those are the change- changes I

[45:20] would like to make in the scope.

[45:23] Um

[45:27] Whenever we do preservation, there is a

[45:29] couple of things that we keep in mind,

[45:30] too. We don't necessarily have to do

[45:33] curb ramps with preservations. Um that

[45:35] is not a a a federal requirement, but

[45:38] there are some places where it makes

[45:40] sense. Um

[45:42] In that list was Washington Street and

[45:45] Stratton Street. So, this is the

[45:46] intersection. This is Stratton here, and

[45:48] this is Washington Street here. And if

[45:49] you ever come to this intersection, this

[45:50] inlet right here is real low. This

[45:53] curb ramp sits um

[45:56] sits full of water. There's a puddle of

[45:58] water right here at this intersection.

[46:00] And then And then just down from this

[46:02] intersection is this curb ramp and this

[46:04] one sits full of water. Uh

[46:06] we didn't have a whole lot of control

[46:08] whenever this project when it came in,

[46:10] this is a Columbia Gas related project.

[46:12] If you ever go down West

[46:14] Middle Street, the south side of the

[46:16] sidewalks are brand new.

[46:18] The north side aren't. And that's

[46:20] because Columbia Gas came in and put a

[46:21] brand new gas line down the south side.

[46:23] So we got a free gift. We got a brand

[46:25] new sidewalks from Columbia Gas down

[46:27] that side, but we didn't have a whole

[46:28] lot of control over these. And this is a

[46:29] typical thing whenever the curb ramps,

[46:31] they have to come in flush. The new law

[46:33] says that they have to be flush. You

[46:34] know, they don't have them raised at

[46:35] all. So it's a common thing where they

[46:37] get them in too low and then they sit

[46:39] full of water. We would like to make

[46:40] those adjustments. Anytime you do a

[46:42] preservation, you're making a street

[46:43] good again,

[46:45] drainage is a very important thing. In my paving courses in college

[46:48] actually,

[46:49] um the first three three lessons that my

[46:51] professor gave us was drainage, drainage. It's always fix the

[46:54] drainage first and then you fix the rest

[46:55] of the street. So these things are

[46:57] related to drainage. So we would like to do those couple of things. Get this

[47:00] just the just the dome area of those

[47:02] curb ramps, just the dome area of this,

[47:04] and this inlet changed a little bit. And

[47:06] I think there's a couple more. So this

[47:07] is Stratton Street here as well. The

[47:10] water comes down the street here and it

[47:11] misses it. There's a it's like raised up

[47:13] right here a little bit too high. And

[47:14] then that's one of my pet peeves is

[47:16] whenever we spend all this money to put

[47:17] these inlets in and the water doesn't

[47:18] even get in the inlets, just goes right

[47:20] around. And then that intersection sits

[47:21] full of water and it gets icy. Um it's

[47:24] not a major issue, but while we're doing

[47:25] this, now's the time to fix it.

[47:28] The the solution to this is really easy.

[47:29] Just mill the pavement down a little bit

[47:31] on the side before we put the

[47:32] preservation down.

[47:33] Um and this is also a Middle Street. If

[47:35] you go down West Middle Street, you

[47:37] might have hit this with your tires. Um

[47:39] I know Robbie hits it often with his

[47:40] snow plows. It's only 5 years old and

[47:42] it's already showing signs of distress

[47:44] from the snow plow hit get hitting it.

[47:46] So before we again before we do Middle

[47:48] Street, we'd like to just lower that

[47:49] inlet a couple of inches.

[47:52] >> [clears throat]

[47:53] >> Um now as like I said, it goes with all

[47:55] of those the street work that's the uh

[47:57] the Mill and Fill areas is these

[47:59] crosswalks. And just a council just as a

[48:02] refresher to the council that was here

[48:03] last year and

[48:05] an update to the new council members, we

[48:07] did bid this project last year.

[48:09] We bid the replacement of the two

[48:11] crosswalks. It's It's this one here in

[48:13] front of This is the Dobbin House.

[48:15] is sitting on this side.

[48:16] So, this is the crosswalk in the Dobbin

[48:17] House and this is the one right in front

[48:19] of Tommy's Pizza. So, that's the two

[48:20] crosswalks I'm going to talk about. We

[48:22] bid them last year. We only got one

[48:23] bidder and our bids were really high. We

[48:25] kind of bid it late in the season. I'm

[48:26] thinking that's why we

[48:28] our

[48:29] We got high prices, but for whatever

[48:31] reason it didn't fit our budget. So, we

[48:33] excluded that from the work we did. It

[48:36] was actually 2 years It wasn't last

[48:37] year. It was 2 years ago. We excluded

[48:39] that from the work and now we're back to

[48:41] back around a new cycle street work and

[48:43] we'd like to add it back in. We still

[48:45] have a highway occupancy permit from the

[48:46] state. We've been extending our permit.

[48:48] We are extended through this year. So,

[48:50] as long as we do the work this year,

[48:51] we're still within that same permit. Um

[48:53] but we would like to go ahead and try to

[48:54] replace place these two. Um One of the

[48:56] issues with this crosswalk is there used

[48:58] to be these in-road lights that flashed

[49:01] whenever you pushed a button there was

[49:02] in-road lights that flashed, but they

[49:04] were problematic. Um every time a

[49:06] snowplow hit them, they would knock the

[49:08] lights out and they were very expensive

[49:09] to replace. Um so, those have been

[49:11] removed and whenever they got removed,

[49:13] they weren't done great and now the

[49:14] whole thing's starting to fail.

[49:16] So, we would like to replace that

[49:17] crosswalk and then the other one is this

[49:19] one and pretty obvious um

[49:22] distress here in the street um on that

[49:26] western lane mostly

[49:28] um that needs to be cut out. So, the

[49:29] base the base repair is this line right

[49:31] here. So, you'd cut out all that base

[49:33] the bed area before we do the crosswalk.

[49:35] Uh whenever we did those crosswalks,

[49:38] they were done with an imprint material.

[49:39] Now, we would like to use an a material

[49:41] that's called um StreetPrint XD. The

[49:44] Tawney Town Road, which is this

[49:46] intersection way up here, and then also

[49:48] this other Steinwehr leg has a

[49:50] StreetPrint XD. It looks very similar to

[49:52] this one, but they're holding up way

[49:54] better. It's just a better procedure in

[49:55] my in my opinion. So, that's how we

[49:57] intend to do these. So, that's the same

[49:59] thing that we bid 2 years ago. It's

[50:00] exactly the same thing now, exact same

[50:02] price. That's That's not changing in

[50:04] your budget at all. I'm just letting you

[50:05] know that that's included in here. The

[50:07] only other thing I wanted to say about

[50:08] that is that's what's driving the

[50:10] schedule here. We would like to and the

[50:11] reason I'm coming to so so soon in the

[50:13] season to get this out in the street is

[50:15] because we hoping to get this thing bid

[50:17] sooner to get better bid results and to

[50:19] beat a lot of the 250th anniversary

[50:23] events that are happening this summer.

[50:25] So, we're hoping if we

[50:27] if if you authorize me to advertise this

[50:29] next week, I'll have bids ready for you

[50:31] to consider at your March meeting and

[50:34] then hopefully go to construction as

[50:36] soon as April, maybe May at the latest

[50:38] and beat a lot of the 250th anniversary

[50:40] things.

[50:44] So, we're back to the list of streets.

[50:45] This is exactly the same street list

[50:47] that I showed you earlier. Now, we're

[50:48] just talking about the preservation.

[50:50] That's the crack sealing, this chip

[50:51] seal, this high performance chip seal,

[50:53] and the and the grip tight salt fog

[50:54] seal. Um this is a a map just showing

[50:57] you the streets that we were talking

[50:58] about before. Um

[51:01] I was showing you that we wanted to

[51:02] eliminate This is Queen Street that we

[51:04] wanted to eliminate. I want to talk to

[51:06] you a little bit more about

[51:07] Constitution. As you can see,

[51:08] Constitution is a pretty long street. Um

[51:10] so, keep that in mind as we get to the

[51:12] next slide. And then,

[51:15] uh 4th Street right here, I'd like to

[51:16] eliminate that one. And then,

[51:19] like I said earlier, Locust. This is

[51:22] next to Hillcrest.

[51:25] But, that's just to show you on a map of

[51:26] all the streets that we're coming

[51:27] working on.

[51:30] Okay, so this is a very similar slide to

[51:33] the first slide. It's exactly that what

[51:35] you have in your budget, $263,000.

[51:37] I showed you all of the streets that I'd

[51:39] like to do is $348,000.

[51:42] Um so, we got a little bit of a balance,

[51:44] uh $14,000. So, you kind of have three

[51:47] options here. It's either say yes Chad,

[51:49] I'd like you to go ahead and

[51:52] advertise it excluding Constitution.

[51:55] We'll keep the $14,000 in our budget for

[51:57] something else. If you have a lot of

[51:58] other expenses that you're you're

[51:59] getting hit with, maybe you tell me that

[52:01] that's what you wanted me to do.

[52:03] You might tell me, "No Chad, I want you

[52:04] to add Constitution

[52:06] um and we're we're going to bite the

[52:09] bullet and we're going to increase the

[52:10] budget to to to pay for that as well."

[52:12] Or you might say, "Well, we're not sure

[52:13] yet. Can we bid it as an alternate?"

[52:15] That's also an option. We can bid

[52:17] Constitution as an alternate. I would

[52:18] say only

[52:20] that

[52:21] it'll add a little bit of effort from my

[52:23] end to bid it as an alternate, but not a

[52:25] lot of money. We're talking about maybe

[52:26] 500 to 1,000 dollars. If you absolutely

[52:28] are sure that you're not going to want

[52:29] to do it, just tell me don't do that.

[52:31] We'll save the 500 bucks. If you want me

[52:33] to bid it as an alternate, takes a

[52:34] little bit of time to bid it as an

[52:36] alternate, but it's not a huge lift. Um

[52:38] so, you might tell me that, "Just just

[52:39] go ahead and bid it as an alternate for

[52:40] now and then we'll decide if we want to

[52:42] do that once we get bid results." Again,

[52:44] all of these estimates I'm providing you

[52:45] are engineers' best guess, right?

[52:47] They're Once we get the bids in from the

[52:49] contractor, you'll have another

[52:50] opportunity to decide on exactly what

[52:52] streets you want to do.

[52:54] So,

[52:55] um

[52:56] Constitution again is is a it's a pretty

[52:58] expensive street, right? So, it's a long

[53:00] street. There's $9,000 worth of base

[53:02] repairs. Preservation's 38,000 for a

[53:05] total of 47,000. So, if you wanted to

[53:08] add the $47,000

[53:11] to the project, obviously the $14,000 um

[53:15] but balance isn't going to cover the

[53:17] full 47,000.

[53:22] So, that is

[53:24] it for the street preservation work

[53:27] unless you guys have any questions for

[53:29] me.

[53:32] » Any questions?

[53:33] Um

[53:36] Was this Was this under um

[53:39] what, liquid fuels that we budgeted

[53:41] this?

[53:44] » No.

[53:45] >> I I think the the street preservation

[53:48] work was liquid fuels, but not the

[53:51] Steinwehr crosswalks.

[53:53] >> Okay.

[53:55] Um

[53:59] I guess just could you speak a little

[54:00] bit about like

[54:02] you know, your pick like why these

[54:04] streets or why like this one just gets

[54:07] improvement while this one gets repairs?

[54:08] Is it just because of the conditions or

[54:10] like do you have a criteria you go by

[54:12] for that?

[54:13] >> Yeah, yeah, certainly. Um so so one of

[54:16] the things whenever we do um street

[54:18] maintenance plans is we like to keep the

[54:20] good streets good. That's kind of the the slang for it. Um if there's a

[54:25] street that's within

[54:27] 7 to 10 years old before it starts to

[54:30] degrade to a point where you need to do

[54:31] a full base repair, you try to do a pre-

[54:34] preservation treatment. These

[54:35] preservations only cost about $5 a

[54:37] square yard. If you have to do a full

[54:39] replacement, it's $50 a square yard. So

[54:42] it's 10 times more expensive to replace

[54:44] a street than to preserve a street. And

[54:47] you can preserve a street over and over. Every 10 years you can

[54:50] preserve it again. And you could extend

[54:52] the life of a street by 100 years if you

[54:54] kept doing it every 10 years versus

[54:56] having to wait till it fails. Once it

[54:58] gets to a point where it's

[55:00] showing failure like I was talking about

[55:01] with Fourth Street. That one's to the

[55:03] point where a preservation isn't going

[55:05] to help it anymore. The preservation

[55:07] There's There's all kinds of things that

[55:08] degrade pavement and a preservation

[55:11] keeps the pavement from degrading, but

[55:13] it doesn't fix the base below it. It's

[55:15] just a It's just a band-aid on the top

[55:17] es- essentially. Um so everything that

[55:19] we're doing in this

[55:21] preservation plan is just that, a

[55:23] preservation. None of this work is full

[55:26] replacement. Any Any street that gets to

[55:28] the point where it's getting to be a

[55:29] full replacement, we remove those. So

[55:32] the base repair areas that I'm showing

[55:34] are small areas. They're just pothole

[55:36] areas, you know, 5

[55:38] 10-x-20, you know, those kind of things.

[55:41] And maybe just a straight-line mill right down the

[55:44] middle if there was a crack down the

[55:45] middle or those kind of things. It's not

[55:47] full milling the street out and

[55:48] completely rebuilding it because again,

[55:50] that would be $50 a square yard. And if

[55:52] anybody any any municipality that's only

[55:55] re- doing the older streets

[55:57] and taking care and and putting all of

[55:59] their money into the older streets is

[56:01] usually falling behind because it's just

[56:04] dumb and money into those older streets.

[56:06] It's always better to keep those good

[56:07] streets good while you can. Does it Does

[56:09] that answer your question?

[56:11] >> Yeah, I think so.

[56:13] Um

[56:14] for that 14 grand

[56:16] would you I mean

[56:18] is there already a contingency line item

[56:20] built into the initial budget for that?

[56:23] >> Yeah, yeah. So So like I said, there is

[56:25] some engineering These are engineers'

[56:27] estimates. And we do have a little bit

[56:30] of contingency. I'm going to say about

[56:32] 5%. We don't really know until we get

[56:34] our bids back. Even once we get our bids

[56:36] back, I usually say that you should have

[56:37] a little bit of contingency in your

[56:38] budget because

[56:40] you know, as we're doing these base

[56:41] repairs, we try to estimate them as We

[56:43] had our inspectors go and look at all

[56:44] the streets

[56:46] and get an estimate of how like the

[56:47] percentage of base repairs that we'd

[56:49] have to do on the street before we do

[56:50] the preservation.

[56:52] Once again, once before we actually go

[56:54] to construction, we're going to go out

[56:55] there with our inspectors again. We'll

[56:56] actually paint out squares on the on the

[56:58] pavement on the areas that he has to

[57:00] actually replace. And then we'll pay him

[57:02] for exactly what he did. So, that whole

[57:05] process it ebbs and flows a little bit.

[57:07] So, there is a little bit There's

[57:08] probably about a 5% contingency I would

[57:10] have to say in some of the quantities

[57:12] that we gave you. But I I I hate to give that away too early in the

[57:16] process because if we get really bad bid

[57:18] results,

[57:19] >> Yeah.

[57:20] >> you know, it might it might be a year

[57:21] where all of these There's only three of

[57:22] these contractors that do this and they

[57:24] might all

[57:25] just happen to have filled their

[57:26] schedule and they don't really need any

[57:28] more work. And all of a sudden, we get

[57:29] really high bid results. Now, one thing

[57:32] that is good news so far is that fuel

[57:34] prices have been step pretty steady to

[57:36] low

[57:37] and pavement preservation is highly

[57:40] dependent on fuel prices or oil prices.

[57:44] >> Um and then I saw there's like that

[57:46] little line where it says like March

[57:48] 30th, contract one through May 29th, and

[57:52] contract two April through May.

[57:55] Would you try to have like say for the

[57:57] Steinwehr project where it's high

[57:58] volume, would you try to have that in

[58:00] the earlier of that schedule?

[58:02] >> Yep. Exactly.

[58:03] >> Okay.

[58:04] >> Yep, which we would like to try to get

[58:05] to that one as soon as possible. Now,

[58:07] you can't start any work on state roads

[58:09] before April 1st. So, that's part of

[58:10] what drives that schedule, but as close

[58:12] to April 1st as possible, we would like

[58:14] to get Steinwehr done. The rest of the

[58:15] streets are not going to have as big of

[58:17] an impact on tourist traffic.

[58:20] >> Thank you.

[58:20] >> Sure.

[58:24] » I just have a quick question.

[58:26] Um so, um it's sort of about the

[58:28] contingency um

[58:30] built in and that was already answered,

[58:32] but um

[58:34] suppose that there's close to $14,000

[58:37] left when you're getting sort of nearing

[58:40] the end of the project, would you be

[58:42] able to consider or reconsider some of

[58:44] the curb ramps that we sort of set

[58:46] aside?

[58:47] Um or could you not sort like mix

[58:51] apples and oranges and and use money

[58:53] from this budget to take care of some of

[58:55] the curbs that we

[58:59] aren't using the CBD?

[59:00] >> Yeah, I I understand the question. I

[59:02] think the answer is that it would be

[59:05] difficult.

[59:06] I don't think the answer's no. I think

[59:08] you could, but there are it's I think

[59:11] you like you said it's a bit apples and

[59:12] oranges

[59:14] or apples and

[59:17] vegetables. Yeah, so it would be it

[59:18] would be something it would be it would

[59:20] be a little bit difficult to add it.

[59:22] >> Yeah.

[59:22] >> Okay. Thank you.

[59:25] » Any thoughts about

[59:27] >> I'm sorry, go ahead.

[59:27] >> I might have missed uh

[59:29] you talking about what would what would

[59:30] be the benefit of adding Constitution.

[59:33] Did you originally take that out and

[59:35] then

[59:36] you

[59:37] brought it back in, but

[59:39] you're hypothetically saying it's going

[59:40] to be over budget by about 50,000. What

[59:43] would be the benefit of then doing it

[59:45] this year and

[59:48] going over budget to do it is

[59:50] >> Good question and I don't think you

[59:51] missed it and so let me be I'll try to explain a little bit better. So,

[59:55] um

[59:56] Constitution is one of like just like I

[59:57] was explaining to Mr. Bales,

[1:00:00] if you can keep your good streets good,

[1:00:01] that's that's really important.

[1:00:03] Constitution is one of those streets

[1:00:04] where you can still keep it good. If you

[1:00:06] would get a treatment on it soon, it

[1:00:09] hasn't shown a lot of base failure. It's

[1:00:11] got a decent cross-section. It's not

[1:00:13] rutting. It's not blanketing. It's not

[1:00:16] um getting polished, uh bleeding out.

[1:00:19] It's all of the things that we look for

[1:00:21] in pavement um failure. So, it has the characteristics of a street that

[1:00:25] could use a preservation to preserve it.

[1:00:27] And if you would not preserve it now,

[1:00:30] that's a pretty long street um that's

[1:00:31] going to cost a lot of money later down

[1:00:33] the road. Um

[1:00:35] 10 times as much later down the road. Um

[1:00:38] so,

[1:00:38] >> just to interrupt real quick, um

[1:00:40] since we

[1:00:42] uh as the bids exist now, we're looking

[1:00:44] at a $14,000 surplus on the budget line

[1:00:46] item. So, if we add in the 40

[1:00:49] $7,000 item, then we're looking at a

[1:00:51] $33,000 overage.

[1:00:54] >> Yeah, and that's and that's exactly

[1:00:55] Thank you, Matt. Is that that's exactly

[1:00:57] why I was looking for what street could

[1:00:59] I cut and get it back within the budget.

[1:01:02] And that was the only really big one.

[1:01:04] All the rest of them are, you know, five

[1:01:06] or $10,000

[1:01:07] line items and they weren't getting me

[1:01:08] below your budget. That was the one that

[1:01:10] I had to chop to get below your budget

[1:01:12] and get that $14,000 balance.

[1:01:14] >> But you're saying we'll get the cost

[1:01:15] savings over time

[1:01:17] >> Oh, absolutely. Yes.

[1:01:18] >> by

[1:01:19] biting the bullet now and saving money

[1:01:21] in the future.

[1:01:22] >> In in a perfect world, if if I could

[1:01:24] give you a you know, and of course my

[1:01:26] engineering judgment has to include your

[1:01:28] budget. Has to

[1:01:29] I got to be the a steward of your of

[1:01:31] your finances.

[1:01:32] Um

[1:01:33] but I would say it's a good use of your

[1:01:35] money to preserve Constitution now. So,

[1:01:38] in a perfect world, if you could use if

[1:01:39] you could do that, too, that would be a good idea.

[1:01:42] >> And so, Charles, would we fund the

[1:01:43] overage through liquid fuels? And do we

[1:01:45] have I I think we have a pretty

[1:01:47] substantial liquid fuels balance there,

[1:01:49] don't we?

[1:01:50] >> we could do it through liquid fuels. We

[1:01:51] could do it through capital projects or

[1:01:53] just absorb it into the general fund, as

[1:01:55] well.

[1:01:55] >> We have a pretty significant liquid

[1:01:57] fuels balance, right?

[1:01:58] >> Over 900.

[1:01:59] >> Yeah.

[1:02:00] So,

[1:02:02] um you know, $33,000 out of a $900,000

[1:02:05] fund to preserve a road that's going to

[1:02:06] cost us 10 times more if it fails in 10

[1:02:09] years. I mean,

[1:02:10] what do you guys want to do with that?

[1:02:12] >> Um I have maybe a silly question. Is it

[1:02:15] possible to split up the improvements

[1:02:19] and the preservation, or does that all

[1:02:21] have to be done at the same time?

[1:02:22] >> Yeah, they kind of go together. Yeah, because the the preservation

[1:02:26] itself, um that that Grip Tight fog seal

[1:02:29] and that chip seal, doesn't fix any of

[1:02:31] the base failure. And the base failures

[1:02:33] are kind of underneath. We cut those

[1:02:35] areas out, fix them first, and then we

[1:02:36] cover the whole street black. So, they

[1:02:38] kind of go together.

[1:02:39] >> My other question is if you were to do

[1:02:42] Constitution Avenue, would that be done

[1:02:44] over the summer?

[1:02:46] >> All of these things would be done over

[1:02:48] the summer, yeah. Yeah. And and

[1:02:50] >> With the exception of Steinway.

[1:02:52] >> Except for Steinway. Steinway would be

[1:02:53] as soon as possible, April April 1st at

[1:02:56] the soonest. Um all of the rest of the

[1:02:58] things, so because there's two different

[1:02:59] contracts that we deal with, the first

[1:03:01] contractor if if he comes in to do

[1:03:03] Steinway in in the end of April, that

[1:03:05] same contractor might go through and do

[1:03:06] all of the base repairs and get that

[1:03:07] done in April or May, and then contract

[1:03:10] two with the street preservation, that

[1:03:12] contractor might come not come in until

[1:03:14] August or September.

[1:03:16] They don't like to do those

[1:03:17] preservations into October, but those

[1:03:19] could be as late as September.

[1:03:20] >> Right. Yeah, I guess with Constitution I

[1:03:23] was just like I walk on Constitution

[1:03:25] every single day. Like that's super busy

[1:03:27] for the college. Um

[1:03:29] so just thinking we could do it when the

[1:03:31] college is out of session.

[1:03:32] >> Absolutely. Yeah, and that is something

[1:03:34] that we work closely with with Jim

[1:03:36] Bisecker on any street work we do and

[1:03:38] make sure that we're coordinating with

[1:03:40] his events and try to try to avoid

[1:03:43] freshmen are moving back in and that

[1:03:44] kind of thing. So yeah, absolutely.

[1:03:46] >> Great. Thank you.

[1:03:48] >> I think um sorry.

[1:03:50] I think um

[1:03:52] that $14,000 might might might not

[1:03:54] actually be there when we get quotes

[1:03:55] back. We might be well over that. We

[1:03:57] might have to pull into the budget just

[1:03:59] to get that done. So I think it would be

[1:04:01] a good idea to bid that as a um ala

[1:04:04] carte so to speak. Like you you like you

[1:04:06] mentioned um so go with the your

[1:04:09] recommendations and see where that comes

[1:04:10] back and

[1:04:12] have an extra bid

[1:04:13] for Constitution if and if it falls

[1:04:16] within if the numbers work then I think

[1:04:17] that would be good. I agree with you. Uh

[1:04:19] we want to avoid um

[1:04:22] pushing the pushing the bill down the

[1:04:24] road.

[1:04:25] But

[1:04:26] when these bills when these bids come

[1:04:27] back it might that 14,000 might not be

[1:04:30] there.

[1:04:31] We'll see.

[1:04:32] >> Accurate. Yeah.

[1:04:33] >> Yeah.

[1:04:35] >> Do we do these street improvements,

[1:04:37] street preservation every year?

[1:04:39] >> No, we do them in the in this last SIP

[1:04:42] which was is it five or six years ago

[1:04:44] that we were

[1:04:45] >> Right. That Charles five

[1:04:46] >> Five years ago. We've had two two street

[1:04:48] preservation contracts in that five

[1:04:50] years.

[1:04:52] So you we usually have

[1:04:53] every other year we'll do a street

[1:04:55] preservation contract three years at the

[1:04:57] most. We like to do a preservation

[1:04:58] contract and then the off years we'll do

[1:05:01] some some complete street repave so next

[1:05:04] year we already have a couple of streets

[1:05:06] that we're going to be completely

[1:05:07] rebuilding. That's going to be East

[1:05:08] Lincoln Street associated with a storm

[1:05:10] water project. Um East Railroad Street

[1:05:13] we're going to be completely rebuilding.

[1:05:14] So, there's some full rebuild projects

[1:05:18] that are different than these

[1:05:19] preservations.

[1:05:21] And that's not an exact science that we said two two times within five

[1:05:25] years. It's that's a a roundabout what

[1:05:27] we'd like to try to do.

[1:05:33] » Okay.

[1:05:34] Um

[1:05:36] any other thoughts?

[1:05:40] Um I kind of like Mr. Mooney's approach

[1:05:43] there of um

[1:05:45] breaking out the bids

[1:05:47] as the add-on there. I think that might

[1:05:48] be the way to go.

[1:05:51] Anybody else?

[1:05:52] >> I agree with that.

[1:05:54] >> All right. Cool.

[1:05:55] >> I'll move forward with uh bidding

[1:05:56] Constitution as an alternate.

[1:05:58] >> Great and perfect.

[1:05:59] Uh now I I think you're also going to

[1:06:01] talk to us about the Charters of Freedom

[1:06:03] Plaza.

[1:06:03] >> Yeah, and I can be pretty quick with

[1:06:05] this one and um

[1:06:07] and for the for the council members that

[1:06:08] aren't aware of this, through our

[1:06:10] subdivision land development process and

[1:06:12] our ordinance, we have a requirement for

[1:06:15] a developer's agreement. Uh there's two

[1:06:18] different forms of developer's

[1:06:19] agreement. There's a small form and a

[1:06:21] large form. The large form includes a

[1:06:22] lot of financial security items for

[1:06:25] whenever there's like new streets or

[1:06:26] things be dedicated to the bureau. Um we

[1:06:29] require the the developer post a bond to

[1:06:31] secure those things. Then there's a

[1:06:33] smaller form. In this case, we'd be

[1:06:35] using this smaller form of the

[1:06:37] developer's agreement. Um but really

[1:06:40] what I'm the reason and and and this is

[1:06:41] a very very much a formality. Um the

[1:06:44] planning commission has approval

[1:06:45] authority in Gettysburg for subdivisions

[1:06:48] land developments. And they would

[1:06:49] approve a in this case a subdivision and

[1:06:53] then the developer's agreement would

[1:06:55] come to you guys. I wouldn't usually

[1:06:56] have this presentation to you like this.

[1:06:58] It would just come to you and say, "Hey,

[1:06:59] look, they they approved the

[1:07:00] subdivision. Now we need the developer's

[1:07:02] agreement to

[1:07:04] um be approved by you guys." Only you

[1:07:06] guys can approve agreements. The

[1:07:07] planning commission can't do that. So,

[1:07:08] that still have to come to you guys.

[1:07:09] Just like an operation and maintenance

[1:07:11] stormwater management agreement. This

[1:07:12] These would also come to you guys.

[1:07:14] Uh the reason why I'm coming to you in

[1:07:15] this case is because there is a bit of a

[1:07:17] chicken and an egg thing. So, this is

[1:07:20] the subdivision plan and John has a copy

[1:07:22] of the big packet of subdivision plans

[1:07:24] that are all going to go to the planning

[1:07:25] commission in 2 weeks from now.

[1:07:27] Um that's way more detailed than this

[1:07:29] one.

[1:07:30] Um but just to give you an idea of what

[1:07:32] what's being proposed here is So, the

[1:07:35] Dawbin house is right here. The Charter

[1:07:37] of of Freedom Plaza is proposed right

[1:07:39] here. Well, this house right here

[1:07:41] currently sits in that location. The

[1:07:43] HARB has approved it to be relocated to

[1:07:46] this location. Currently, there is a old

[1:07:49] block garage that sits in that location.

[1:07:51] That's also been approved for for

[1:07:52] demolition. This is the old red um barn

[1:07:55] that sits in the back. So, this house is

[1:07:57] going to get moved to this location. And

[1:07:59] then this house is going to stay. Um and

[1:08:02] it's going to get turned just slightly

[1:08:03] so that it kind of marries up with

[1:08:05] Washington Street, but it also faces the

[1:08:07] charters. Um that's the best way it

[1:08:09] could fit in there.

[1:08:11] As you can see by its configuration,

[1:08:13] there's a lot line that exists currently

[1:08:14] down the middle. This new building will

[1:08:16] sit right on top of that lot line. So,

[1:08:18] you can't really

[1:08:20] build or move that house until that lot

[1:08:22] line's fixed. But you also can't create

[1:08:24] this line

[1:08:26] until that's this process is done

[1:08:28] because now you have create a garage on

[1:08:30] the back of that lot that lot and that's

[1:08:33] a not a

[1:08:35] it's not a primary it's not able to be a primary use a garage by

[1:08:38] itself.

[1:08:39] So, there's this chicken and an egg

[1:08:41] dilemma

[1:08:42] um on how to get past this. And after

[1:08:44] meeting with John and talking about the

[1:08:46] best way to approach this, we said,

[1:08:47] "Well, we got to do this developer's

[1:08:48] agreement anyways. Why don't we just say

[1:08:50] in there that that the borough will

[1:08:52] allow this development to move forward

[1:08:54] and Jackie White, the pro project owner

[1:08:57] here, will agree to finalize the

[1:09:00] subdivision process. So, she will

[1:09:02] eliminate essentially this line. Don't

[1:09:05] let that She won't let that line there.

[1:09:06] She'll actually She's got to sell that

[1:09:08] property to herself essentially for a

[1:09:09] dollar or whatever, so that that line is

[1:09:12] eliminated, right? So, that's how this

[1:09:13] is going to have to happen. It would be

[1:09:15] awfully So, in today's world, it's

[1:09:17] actually kind of really cool that you

[1:09:18] can move a house, but as you can

[1:09:20] imagine, you wouldn't be able to just

[1:09:22] hover that house in air while you're

[1:09:24] going through this month or two process

[1:09:26] of the subdivision. So, rather than

[1:09:28] hovering a house in the air while you're

[1:09:30] going through all this stuff, you would

[1:09:31] do a developer's agreement that would

[1:09:33] say that both parties agree that borough

[1:09:35] would agree to approve the process of

[1:09:37] moving the house.

[1:09:39] Ms. White would approve or agree to

[1:09:42] finalizing the subdivision process, and

[1:09:45] that would allow her to go ahead and

[1:09:46] proceed with the project. So,

[1:09:49] that is essentially why this developer's

[1:09:51] going to come This development

[1:09:52] agreement's going to be on your agenda

[1:09:56] prior to the subdivision being approved

[1:09:59] by the planning commission. That's why

[1:10:01] there's this chicken and egg thing.

[1:10:04] Although they go together. Does that

[1:10:05] make sense?

[1:10:07] Clear as mud.

[1:10:08] >> No. [laughter] No.

[1:10:10] >> I apologize if I confused you cuz

[1:10:12] sometimes I confuse myself with this.

[1:10:14] >> [laughter]

[1:10:15] >> All right. Any questions about that?

[1:10:21] All right. Thank you, sir.

[1:10:22] >> Sure.

[1:10:28] » Cats.

[1:10:33] » Good evening. I was told to keep this

[1:10:35] very quick, and I think we can.

[1:10:37] Um overall, we've received some concern

[1:10:40] from our spay neuter partners, Forever

[1:10:44] Love Rescue,

[1:10:45] uh regarding enforcement of our current

[1:10:47] cat regulations as they appear in

[1:10:49] chapter two, animals.

[1:10:52] In particular,

[1:10:54] the owner of a cat is defined as someone

[1:10:56] that feeds a cat. That presents a

[1:10:58] problem as individuals who engage with

[1:11:02] the services of Forever Love Rescue are

[1:11:04] bringing them stray animals to be spayed

[1:11:06] or neutered, which

[1:11:08] research indicates does decrease the

[1:11:11] population of feral cat colonies. So,

[1:11:14] it's a positive.

[1:11:15] By ending that program, that would be a

[1:11:18] net negative for the borough. We'd have

[1:11:20] increased feral cat populations. Um

[1:11:23] staff has proposed uh that either we,

[1:11:27] the borough,

[1:11:29] just directly update the ordinance with

[1:11:31] basic language that we provided whereby

[1:11:33] instead of saying any person owning,

[1:11:36] keeping, feeding, uh harboring, or

[1:11:39] having custody of a cat, any person who

[1:11:41] allows a cat to reside or remain about

[1:11:43] his or her premises shall be considered

[1:11:45] a cat owner,

[1:11:46] uh getting rid of most of that language

[1:11:48] to just have it state any person owning,

[1:11:50] keeping, providing permanent shelter and

[1:11:52] habitat, harboring, or having custody of

[1:11:55] a cat is a cat owner. Um that should

[1:11:58] alleviate the initial concerns, but

[1:12:01] additionally, if it's council's wish, it

[1:12:03] would be probably beneficial to actually

[1:12:05] have a meeting with Forever Love Rescue

[1:12:07] and to discuss their concerns and

[1:12:10] formulate a more proactive ordinance to

[1:12:14] facilitate their efforts and efforts to

[1:12:16] control feral cats.

[1:12:18] So, that that's what we have from staff.

[1:12:24] » Okay.

[1:12:26] Um any thoughts on that?

[1:12:30] » I do, but I'm just I'm laughing about it

[1:12:32] only because it's

[1:12:33] um

[1:12:34] I never knew it was in there and um I

[1:12:37] just think about all the good deeds that

[1:12:38] people do and feeding cats and just

[1:12:41] making sure they're well-kept and and

[1:12:43] just out of the goodness of their heart

[1:12:44] and I don't think they should be

[1:12:46] considered the owners of the cats. I

[1:12:48] mean

[1:12:49] >> So,

[1:12:50] >> of like old, but I'm trying to

[1:12:51] understand it.

[1:12:52] >> We heard arguments to the to the exact

[1:12:54] opposite a few years ago when we started

[1:12:57] the trap, neuter, release program. Um

[1:12:59] there were, I believe, four key areas of

[1:13:02] the borough that had large colonies. Our

[1:13:06] neighborhood has several colonies.

[1:13:09] And there are good-natured folks who

[1:13:11] will do things like put out

[1:13:14] a ton of wet cat food for these feral

[1:13:16] cats. And

[1:13:17] um not only do the cats enjoy the cat

[1:13:20] food, but so do populations of skunks,

[1:13:22] so do um rabbits, so you know, all sorts

[1:13:25] of stuff.

[1:13:26] Um

[1:13:28] So there there are um multiple

[1:13:30] overlapping public health issues. Uh cat

[1:13:33] feces in your garden is bad for you. You

[1:13:36] shouldn't eat any plants if they've been

[1:13:38] um

[1:13:38] fertilized by cat.

[1:13:40] Um there's lots of reasons to control

[1:13:43] those populations.

[1:13:44] Um

[1:13:45] when they at the at the very least when

[1:13:48] they become overpopulated, they tend to

[1:13:50] starve.

[1:13:51] So um

[1:13:53] we did partner to create the trap,

[1:13:55] neuter, release program. It is a

[1:13:58] minor expense. I think the first year we budgeted $2,500 and it's dropped

[1:14:03] every year since.

[1:14:05] But we're still having good success in

[1:14:07] controlling those populations.

[1:14:09] Um

[1:14:10] so if you are a person who is

[1:14:12] encouraging the breeding of feral cats

[1:14:14] in your neighborhood, um

[1:14:17] there is a level of responsibility that

[1:14:20] you know, you will

[1:14:22] um

[1:14:23] need to take on and just having a good

[1:14:25] heart and wanting to feed them is not

[1:14:26] necessarily the end of the conversation.

[1:14:29] [laughter]

[1:14:30] >> I [snorts] wasn't making it the end of

[1:14:31] the conversation. I was just pointing

[1:14:33] out that sometimes people don't know

[1:14:35] that their good deeds are leading to

[1:14:37] other issues and complications and

[1:14:39] totally respect what Forever Loved does.

[1:14:41] They've been

[1:14:42] >> Yeah.

[1:14:42] >> doing that for a long, long time and

[1:14:44] >> Yeah, and it's been a it's been a

[1:14:46] success for us.

[1:14:48] >> [clears throat]

[1:14:48] >> Um

[1:14:49] All right, does anybody have opposition

[1:14:51] to begin a conversation with them to

[1:14:52] make sure that we're crafting the

[1:14:53] language in a

[1:14:55] way that's um

[1:14:57] as mutually beneficial as possible.

[1:15:00] >> All right.

[1:15:01] >> So, let's get going on that.

[1:15:03] >> But clarification, as a cat owner, do I

[1:15:06] have to keep feeding my cat until we

[1:15:07] decide on this or can I stop feeding

[1:15:09] [laughter] my cat?

[1:15:12] >> I'm not going to tell you how to live

[1:15:13] your life, so.

[1:15:16] Uh Mr. Gable, juror parking.

[1:15:19] >> Uh yes, juror parking. Um there is a

[1:15:22] draft

[1:15:24] uh memorandum of understanding or

[1:15:26] agreement uh between the uh the the

[1:15:29] bureau and the county

[1:15:31] uh in your packet for your review.

[1:15:34] It's uh

[1:15:36] just some minor tweaks from what we have

[1:15:38] existing uh previously for uh those uh

[1:15:41] new on council

[1:15:43] uh the bureau partners with uh the court

[1:15:46] system here in Adams County to provide

[1:15:49] for the parking of citizens called to

[1:15:52] jury duty.

[1:15:53] Uh whenever court is in session,

[1:15:56] uh those potential jurors uh park in the

[1:15:58] Resource Alley garage uh at designated

[1:16:01] spaces

[1:16:03] um and then a nominal fee is charged to

[1:16:06] the county for those parking privileges.

[1:16:09] Uh so, all of that is articulated in the

[1:16:11] renewal of this MOU. Um

[1:16:15] it's it's been successful from the

[1:16:17] bureau's perspective. Uh the court

[1:16:20] communicates with uh the folks in the

[1:16:21] parking department for when court is

[1:16:23] going to be in session. We uh then uh

[1:16:26] promptly reserve those spaces uh at the

[1:16:28] top of the garage.

[1:16:30] Uh the jurors come in,

[1:16:32] uh do their civic duty, and leave.

[1:16:35] Um

[1:16:36] this happens about once a month.

[1:16:38] It's not onerous. Obviously, it's

[1:16:40] usually during the week, so it's not an

[1:16:42] issue of you know, taking up spaces,

[1:16:45] storing large events, or other things

[1:16:47] happening in town.

[1:16:49] Uh so, the MOU is terminating, so we

[1:16:53] should renew it.

[1:16:55] >> All right. Any questions on that?

[1:16:59] Any opposition to continuing our

[1:17:01] long-standing practice of helping people

[1:17:03] engage in their civic duty?

[1:17:05] All right.

[1:17:06] >> That's good.

[1:17:06] >> We'll be good to go.

[1:17:07] >> Thank you.

[1:17:08] >> All right. That concludes our new

[1:17:10] business. We don't have any current or

[1:17:11] old business, so that takes us back to

[1:17:13] our second public comment section of the

[1:17:14] evening. This section is not restricted

[1:17:16] to items appearing on tonight's agenda.

[1:17:18] We do ask that you use the podium.

[1:17:21] Please state your name and address, and

[1:17:22] limit yourself to 5 minutes. Is there

[1:17:24] any public comment?

[1:17:29] » Good evening, again.

[1:17:32] Thank you for the opportunity to speak,

[1:17:33] Mr. Wilson.

[1:17:39] Thank you.

[1:17:41] I appreciate the comments

[1:17:43] offered earlier this evening. I want to

[1:17:45] clarify a key point for the record.

[1:17:48] The historic architectural review board

[1:17:50] recommendation to create a new district

[1:17:53] does not halt, nor does it prohibit the

[1:17:56] development, nor does it automatically

[1:17:58] prevent the demolition of any structure

[1:18:00] within the borough.

[1:18:01] The historic district establishes a

[1:18:04] review process for the exterior, so that

[1:18:07] decisions are made deliberately and

[1:18:09] transparently.

[1:18:11] Importantly, no application related to

[1:18:14] the library project or the seminary

[1:18:16] dormitories is before HARB

[1:18:19] at this time, and any future proposal

[1:18:22] would be reviewed on its own merit

[1:18:24] without with full opportunity for public

[1:18:26] input,

[1:18:27] deliberation

[1:18:29] of the project's public benefit.

[1:18:32] The intent of the recommendation is to

[1:18:34] ensure one of the borough's most

[1:18:36] important, significant, historic

[1:18:38] gateways is thoughtfully managed over

[1:18:40] time consistent with the approach

[1:18:43] Council has already taken elsewhere. It

[1:18:46] is not intended to preclude civic

[1:18:48] investment or institutional growth.

[1:18:51] If Council were to consider funding a

[1:18:53] study as part of the Chapter 11 update,

[1:18:56] that effort could align with the borough

[1:18:59] with other certain state and federal

[1:19:01] grant opportunities

[1:19:03] related to planning, preservation, and

[1:19:06] community development.

[1:19:08] Ultimately, the recommendation simply

[1:19:10] provides Council with an option for

[1:19:12] future consideration. It does not impose

[1:19:16] any outcome on any specific projects.

[1:19:20] Thank you and good evening.

[1:19:22] >> Thank you, sir.

[1:19:25] I don't see any other people from the

[1:19:27] public here, so I think I can safely say

[1:19:30] we can adjourn to executive session.

[1:19:32] Thank you.

Gettysburg Borough Council Meetings - 02/02/2026

Transcript