[2:26] good evening can everybody hear me okay

[2:28] great thank you

[2:30] so we're going to get started in a

[2:31] couple of

[2:38] minutes so one thing I would like to ask

[2:41] every just a couple housekeeping items

[2:42] if uh if you haven't signed in please do

[2:47] so there's two Sig in sheets at each of

[2:49] the

[2:52] entryways feel free to grab some cookies

[2:55] and and water that's important

[2:58] housekeeping

[3:05] oh and I would also ask if if anybody

[3:07] has a laptops or phones with microphones

[3:10] to disable them if they could because it

[3:13] picks up the signal in the room and

[3:14] we'll get feedback on these

[3:22] microphones so I believe are we ready to

[3:24] get started

[3:26] everyone okay well um again

[3:30] welcome my name is Dr Greg Kramer I'm

[3:33] the superintendent parks and trees and

[3:35] the tree warden for town of Greenwich

[3:38] and uh this is our our first kickoff

[3:40] meeting related to our master plan for

[3:42] pomarance tuckman and we have our GZA

[3:45] team here I'll introduce very shortly um

[3:49] tonight I'd like everybody to kind of

[3:51] give the feedback um that they feel

[3:53] they'd like to express there's no good

[3:56] or bad feedback is just feedback so I

[3:58] want this to be an open forum for for

[4:01] discussion and thoughts and and ideas

[4:05] because that's how we develop really

[4:06] good plans and from there team will take

[4:09] all that information and start to

[4:11] develop uh a plan so right now there is no P plan per se but there is

[4:17] some ideas and again this is an open for

[4:19] to express those

[4:22] ideas so I would like to introduce our

[4:25] team who's here today uh Steven Leo is

[4:29] the principal in charge in planning for

[4:31] GZA um he's been with the organization

[4:34] for 35 years in planning and permitting

[4:36] and environmental analysis of natural

[4:38] resources and management

[4:40] projects um he specializes in land use

[4:43] planning Trail assessment and planning

[4:45] wet L assessment environmental impact

[4:47] evaluations as well as federal state and

[4:49] local

[4:51] permitting uh Mr Leo has been involved

[4:53] with numerous large scale planning

[4:54] efforts throughout the Northeast United

[4:56] States with a focus on

[4:58] Connecticut uh where there is a broad

[5:00] knowledge of many technical elements

[5:01] allow him to successfully manage large

[5:03] scale interdisciplinary and complex

[5:06] projects

[5:08] um the next is our is Daniel

[5:11] Shaw he's our project manager and point

[5:14] of

[5:14] contact uh Dan has been a project

[5:17] manager and primary point for contact

[5:19] during this process he's a registered

[5:22] landscape architect who's created

[5:23] landscape designs for a range of clients

[5:26] including Architects municipalities and

[5:28] state agencies

[5:30] uh to name a few Dan's background has

[5:32] given him a broad knowledge of design

[5:34] public spaces Parks Trails playgrounds

[5:36] and waterfronts his knowledge in green

[5:38] infrastructure resilience planning and

[5:40] natural and build environments to

[5:42] promote Health ecology restoration and

[5:44] planning at both neighborhood and

[5:45] Regional

[5:47] levels uh Dan is a collaborator and

[5:49] Communicator with skilled in participate

[5:51] design and public speaking will actively

[5:53] involved in a community engagement

[5:54] process he's an active listener making

[5:57] interactions with the community and

[5:59] accountable and positive

[6:03] progress um to my immediate left is CC

[6:07] Saunders she's a historical

[6:09] documentation specialist um she's the

[6:12] principal of historic preservation since

[6:14] 1982 has been served and a principal

[6:16] investigator and primary author and

[6:18] public manager for numerous cultural

[6:19] resource projects she's met professional

[6:22] qualifications for national park

[6:25] services uh Miss Saunders currently

[6:27] serves as the governor's appointed

[6:28] member of the Connecticut State historic

[6:30] preservation review board a position

[6:32] she's held since

[6:34] 1993 the board is also for reviewing and

[6:36] editing Statewide National registered

[6:38] nominations before transfer to

[6:40] Department of interior national park

[6:42] services where can Connecticut Urban

[6:44] rule in Waterfront sites Miss Saunders

[6:46] has directed a full range of projects

[6:48] that encourages I'm sorry encompasses

[6:50] archival research archaeological

[6:52] evaluation and field investigations

[6:54] structural assessment visual impacts

[6:56] analysis master plan development she's

[6:59] also unique prior experiences having

[7:01] served the town of granch Conservation

[7:04] Commission and also with us tonight is

[7:07] Kora atani

[7:11] anania um she's an ecological scientist

[7:14] she's helped out in ecological site

[7:16] visits in the park with staff her

[7:18] background is in biology with a degree

[7:20] in Environmental

[7:22] Management she's worked with a range of

[7:25] clients including local Connecticut

[7:26] towns state agencies and involving

[7:30] projects focusing on trail maintenance

[7:32] ecological assessment and living

[7:34] shorelines so that's our team uh from

[7:37] GZA and then I also would would like to

[7:40] introduce some of our staff here on on

[7:42] board we have Dan Carlson who's our

[7:45] assistant Park director and Darren

[7:49] Wigglesworth who's our park operations

[7:52] manager so without further Ado um I

[7:56] believe we can get the presentation uh

[7:58] present start so Dan if you'd like to

[8:01] take it

[8:02] away thanks for the introduction Greg

[8:05] just gonna start sharing my

[8:24] screen thank you all for coming out can

[8:27] you all hear me all right thanks to

[8:30] anyone listening at home on Zoom so

[8:33] we're here to talk about the pommerin

[8:34] and tuckman site here in Greenwich it's

[8:37] a town-owned pair of parcels that is

[8:40] used as a public open space for Passive

[8:44] Recreation and has has been in town

[8:46] ownership um at this point for a couple

[8:49] of decades and it saw an uptick in use

[8:53] around 2020 and the need for a long

[8:56] range vision for the plan to to manage

[8:58] it going forward was was highlighted

[9:00] during that time

[9:03] so um this project is to create an

[9:07] overall guiding vision for the p and

[9:09] tuckman

[9:11] site so this is a map showing the the

[9:14] project area the pomerance parcel is the

[9:17] larger one that's uh to the west and the

[9:20] tuckman parcel is the slightly smaller

[9:23] one to the east they together comprise

[9:26] just over a 100 acres of open space

[9:30] and the significance of this as an open

[9:33] space is uh not only its its size and

[9:37] the resource that it offers but also its

[9:41] uh connectivity to other parks in the

[9:44] neighborhood as well as it's being

[9:46] walking distance from you know the the

[9:48] center of ccob and neighborhoods where

[9:51] lots of people live so as I'm sure you

[9:53] know it's it's a valuable resource for

[9:55] those

[9:56] reasons um where we're currently at is

[9:59] we're creating this master plan and

[10:02] we're at the stage right now where we're

[10:04] not drafting recommendations or anything

[10:08] like that yet we've been working on

[10:09] background research site investigation

[10:12] historical research and now we're here

[10:14] to present background information about

[10:17] the project and the site with you all

[10:19] and to have a discussion in the second

[10:21] half of the evening tonight to get your

[10:23] ideas your thoughts your experiences of

[10:26] how you use the site and we'll be

[10:28] recording those ideas so that we can um

[10:31] reflect those in the recommendations

[10:33] that we're going to produce for this

[10:35] project so that's that's what this slide

[10:37] here summarizes this is where we're at

[10:40] in the scope of the project so in bold

[10:43] there is where we're at now um the the

[10:46] next steps after we uh there's this

[10:50] public meeting simultaneous with this

[10:52] there's an online survey that's been

[10:54] launched and so far we've had a lot of

[10:58] uh participants I think we're already up

[10:59] to 500 responses on it it poses a range

[11:03] of questions about how you use the Pomer

[11:05] and tuckman park what you see as the

[11:08] priorities there um and you know

[11:13] together with the discussion that we'll

[11:14] have tonight we're taking that feedback

[11:16] into account as we then move on to the

[11:19] next step um in the coming weeks of

[11:22] starting to draft uh initial

[11:24] recommendations for the master plan so

[11:26] when we get to that stage there will be

[11:27] a second public meeting it hasn't been

[11:29] scheduled yet it may be in December but

[11:32] we'll we'll post that when it's been

[11:34] planned and at that point we'll share uh

[11:37] preliminary ideas that we've started to draw together as a project team um

[11:42] for some further discussion and feedback

[11:44] on that and then we'll finalize the

[11:46] master plan after

[11:49] that so to give a little background um

[11:53] we'll get into the the history of this really interesting pair of sites

[11:58] but they they were purchased by the town

[11:59] in um 2000 starting with the pomerance

[12:03] parcel which is 75 acres and when the

[12:06] town acquired that piece of land they

[12:09] put together a committee to look at what

[12:11] the best use for as a public uh resource

[12:15] this this could be and the the pomerans

[12:17] planning committee in 2001 recommended

[12:18] to keep the the land used as open space

[12:23] protected for Passive

[12:25] Recreation and um their recommend

[12:29] included a few modest site improvements

[12:32] which have been implemented there's a

[12:33] small parking area and there's a

[12:36] restroom and they looked at the

[12:38] feasibility of various uses that had

[12:40] been floated for that site in 2007 um

[12:44] the town had the opportunity to buy the

[12:47] 31 acre tuckman parcel and so now

[12:49] together those two Parcels have formed

[12:51] one contiguous Park and really the two

[12:55] Parcels are seamlessly connected with

[12:57] the Montgomery pinetum as as well so it

[13:01] all together forms U an extensive open

[13:03] space and then uh various uh open space

[13:08] plans and planning uh reports and

[13:11] Studies have been done by the town since

[13:12] then which this open space uh supports

[13:17] the goals of and I'll I'll just run

[13:18] through those quickly in a second and as

[13:20] I mentioned in in 2020 with the pandemic

[13:24] people staying at home we saw an uptick

[13:26] in the use of this park and um you know

[13:30] when a park starts to become almost

[13:32] loved to death you have to start to say

[13:34] okay well how are we going to sustain

[13:36] this level of foot traffic and

[13:37] visitorship and all of this so that

[13:39] highlighted the need to take a step back

[13:41] and look at the master plan for how we

[13:43] prioritize improvements in this park and

[13:45] how we Steward it um so just a few of

[13:48] those reports I was talking about so the

[13:49] town looked at the pomerance parcel in

[13:51] 2001 made some recommendations there's a

[13:54] cob neighborhood plan which um this pair

[13:58] of pars as open space supports goals of

[14:02] the uh 2019 Greenwich plan of

[14:04] conservation and development um has

[14:07] goals that the uh Palmer and tuckman

[14:11] site can

[14:13] support um protection of of this par

[14:16] pair of parcels also supports the 2022

[14:19] Greenwich open space plan when we look

[14:20] at things like you know protecting

[14:22] undeveloped land from uh development

[14:25] that is one aspect of the the two

[14:27] Parcels that will get into a little bit

[14:29] tonight it's um owned by the town but

[14:31] these two Parcels don't have any kind of

[14:34] formal restriction from development

[14:36] placed on them there's there's no

[14:38] conservation easements or anything like

[14:39] that so being owned by the town is a

[14:42] measure of protection but it's not

[14:43] technically uh fully protected from

[14:45] development so that and that is one of

[14:47] our goals going into this project the

[14:50] project team feels it would benefit from

[14:53] protection um and this is an excerpt

[14:56] from that open space plan the pommer and tuckman Parcels are down at the

[15:01] bottom of that area that's circled but

[15:03] what this is showing that these two

[15:06] Parcels form a uh Greenway of uh

[15:10] connectivity to larger Open Spaces in

[15:12] the region the myis uh Greenway is not

[15:16] far to the north from this so that adds

[15:20] you know another level of priority to to

[15:22] protecting open space when it connects

[15:24] other existing open

[15:27] spaces so the the goals that our project

[15:30] team you know uh with the town here have

[15:34] going into this project are to form a

[15:36] master plan for Palmer and tuckman that

[15:40] protects provides a pathway for

[15:42] protecting the parcels from

[15:45] development a strategy for mitigating

[15:47] climate change impacts in the

[15:50] community enhancing biodiversity and

[15:52] climate resilience in the parcels

[15:55] identifying appropriate recreational

[15:57] uses inside Improv

[16:00] improvements finding an appropriate

[16:02] strategy for celebrating the site's

[16:04] unique history we'll get into that in a

[16:05] moment um CCE our historical consultant

[16:08] dug up there's a ton of History here and

[16:11] as you probably know there's a lot of

[16:12] remnants of that sites of of that

[16:14] history on the

[16:16] site so finding out how to celebrate and

[16:18] feature that if we choose um building

[16:21] Community understanding of the project

[16:22] site and background in part we're doing

[16:24] that that tonight by sharing the

[16:26] background with you all and then forming

[16:29] a master plan based on all of that that

[16:30] provides a guiding Vision big picture

[16:33] and then also uh priority projects and

[16:37] improvements that can be implemented and

[16:39] we'll identify um you know paths forward

[16:43] and and a master plan like this can be

[16:45] used as a resource for applying for

[16:46] funding for pursuing grants showing that

[16:49] there's been a assessment and

[16:51] prioritization of what the the most

[16:53] meaningful improvements would be for a

[16:54] space like

[16:57] this so with that I'm going to turn it

[17:00] over to Cece to share the site's history

[17:03] with

[17:03] us thank you Dan um I'm gonna stand up

[17:08] because I'm so short that I would really

[17:10] be a talking

[17:12] head

[17:14] um as Greg said I am an

[17:18] archaeologist and I must say that my

[17:21] first Stateside archaeology

[17:25] project was in costop you know 45 years

[17:31] ago uh and I know that most of you know

[17:34] this history of kostov this parcel but

[17:41] uh bear with me I'm just going to do

[17:42] some highlights I have written many many

[17:46] pages beyond what I'm giving but for

[17:49] your patience I've cut it that back down

[17:52] but I will give you the whole thing

[17:57] okay um

[18:00] most of the settlers who came to the

[18:04] kasab

[18:05] area started farming uh mainly for the

[18:09] Staples for their own

[18:11] family uh and that was the 18th century

[18:14] uh it was one of the first densely

[18:16] populated areas because of the harbor it

[18:20] was myanus River provided a fantastic

[18:24] Harbor uh the soil wasn't so good as you

[18:27] know it's Rocky right all of you who

[18:29] work in a garden uh they were able

[18:31] mainly to do apples

[18:34] potatoes and

[18:36] onions uh but as the colonist continued

[18:39] to arrive the remaining indigenous

[18:43] inhabitants M speaking members of the

[18:47] larger Delaware

[18:48] Nation uh they were pushed

[18:52] out um and I'm gonna say that they were

[18:56] part of the sanoi

[18:59] satum you had other smaller tribes along

[19:03] the coastline but they were all part of

[19:05] the sil sanoi Saum which is west of the

[19:09] Norwalk fivemile

[19:11] River we have radiocarbon dates in ccob

[19:15] of 13,000 years ago we know that in

[19:20] Connecticut um you have many

[19:23] more

[19:25] archaeological sites and in um

[19:28] particular in he's trying to do my

[19:31] slides based on my speech but I'm not

[19:34] following it am I okay here you are oh

[19:37] close enough okay you want to see this

[19:40] yeah there you go um I'd like to

[19:43] congratulate West uh grenwich it was the

[19:46] second town in the state to enact

[19:50] archaeological preservation as part of

[19:53] your planning and zoning and so you were

[19:56] seeing not that I think you could PR

[19:58] read it but this is one of many pages of

[20:01] about more than 75 archaeological sites

[20:04] in Greenwich and so we know that 13,000

[20:08] years ago is just a drop in the bucket

[20:11] because we have radiocarbon dates in

[20:14] Connecticut from 12,000 years ago um but

[20:18] I think you should be proud of

[20:20] greenwich's contribution to this record

[20:23] for the state it was the spread of

[20:25] exotic diseases as well as ever growing

[20:28] conflicts with settlers and with the

[20:30] British army um and

[20:34] intermarriage with uh the settlers um

[20:37] with uh freed blacks and with enslaved

[20:43] Africans that really disp and the

[20:47] dispersal of the

[20:48] sanoi so that you do not have a

[20:52] representative First Nation here we have

[20:56] a record of the

[20:59] last occupation which was about 30 Acres

[21:04] um in the ccab area near Exit 4 that's

[21:08] the greinwich Deeds show that uh that

[21:11] was the last occupation of Native

[21:15] American tribes here okay um the first

[21:20] big transformation of this string of

[21:23] little Villages along the coastline was

[21:26] the introduction of Roads first the

[21:30] Boston Post Road or Benjamin Franklin's

[21:33] uh postal route um that came um the uh

[21:41] 1806 was when it came through the area

[21:44] which is now the Greenwich High

[21:46] School through that uh Israel putnam's

[21:50] Hill that's when it was blasted that was

[21:52] the first time they had the blasting

[21:53] available there um then you had the

[21:56] railroad come through in 18 19

[21:59] 48 uh that was the big turning point

[22:03] because you

[22:05] were part of the big city now uh

[22:08] Greenwich changed its name and at that

[22:10] time from Horseneck to Greenwich horck

[22:14] being a little too provincial it was

[22:16] felt by 1850 you already have three

[22:19] trains a day going between Greenwich and

[22:21] New

[22:22] York uh within a few more years there

[22:24] were seven trains a day going back and

[22:26] forth and by 1902 you had a trolley that

[22:30] would connect you with Forester and to

[22:32] the East

[22:34] Stamford so it was that timing that gave

[22:38] you this outsides market and connections

[22:42] with the bigger

[22:43] world uh it was this combined ease of

[22:46] using the railroad excuse me I already

[22:49] have up

[22:50] here uh our

[22:53] parcel Orchard Street on one side Bible

[22:57] Street on the the other uh it was the

[23:00] combined ease of traffic and getting

[23:04] back and forth that introduced the next

[23:06] big era which you all know about the era

[23:09] between 1870 and 1920 the greatest

[23:13] States so you could come out to

[23:16] Greenwich and have

[23:19] a an Italian Villa or you could have

[23:24] um an aristocratic estate or or or a

[23:29] French Chateau whatever you chose to

[23:31] create on your private

[23:34] property and then you would have

[23:38] outbuildings to evoke this image and

[23:42] that's the reason you had these greatest

[23:44] States I'm sure all of you have seen the

[23:47] book that came out what 30 year 30 40

[23:50] years ago the greatest States and it was

[23:53] very very much a dominant part of this

[23:58] property and how it was settled and cre

[24:02] and created for the the first family

[24:05] that took

[24:06] over um it was the same time period that

[24:09] the ccob harbor was turned into um a

[24:13] famous art colony so we had a lot going

[24:16] on at this time now what is now the

[24:19] pomeran tuckman property it began as a I

[24:23] think originally it was like an 80 and a

[24:26] half undeveloped acres formed from uh

[24:29] two uh

[24:31] farms and it was a landscape full of

[24:34] hillocks streams bounded by Wetlands

[24:37] craggy Bedrock

[24:39] outcroppings uh you've all walked it

[24:42] you've stumbled on some things here and

[24:44] there I think on those U on those lovely

[24:46] walks through there as I have um this is

[24:49] what it was like in 1900 when Ernest

[24:52] Thompson Satan bought it and it was

[24:55] ultimately transformed into Satan

[24:58] version of a gentleman's

[25:02] estate Satan was a ruggedly

[25:05] handsome

[25:07] Outdoorsman illustrator and

[25:10] rur when he moved to America in

[25:14] 1896 he had been living in

[25:17] Canada and while he was in Canada he

[25:20] worked out in

[25:21] Manitoba and became very enamored of

[25:24] wolves and the wildlife and so forth out

[25:27] in Manitoba and he brought that love of

[25:30] the outside and nature with him when he

[25:33] came to Kasa he arrived with his um

[25:39] wife a wealthy um

[25:42] American uh and he was well known

[25:45] already at that time for his animal

[25:48] stories he had written his first book

[25:53] wild animals I have

[25:55] known and he was

[25:58] part of an elite group of writers who

[26:01] could actually support himself and

[26:03] support himself very well with his

[26:06] writing uh magazine articles and books

[26:09] this was an extremely popular

[26:12] book

[26:14] um there is a quote that his a a Critic

[26:19] at the time when this book came out

[26:21] wrote not only a naturalist and an

[26:24] animal artist of very high attainments

[26:27] but is a master of a literary style that

[26:30] is at once graphic and fascinating

[26:32] though doubtless much of the charms of

[26:34] the book is due to his sympathetic love

[26:36] of the wild animals and I think that

[26:39] comes across every time you read any of

[26:42] his

[26:43] Works um Now by

[26:46] 1900 Satan had earned enough money and

[26:50] he and his wife and that's his wife's

[26:52] name on the deed map there gray

[26:55] sceleton uh and he found this property

[26:58] because he loved its

[27:02] wildness and people who went property

[27:05] shopping with him noted that his

[27:08] excitement was in the fact that it was

[27:11] so wild that he could Envision the

[27:15] animals and and the cragginess and and

[27:18] the reason you probably love it

[27:20] too um he earlier in 1800 oh I'm talking

[27:26] about the greatest States

[27:28] okay I want you to

[27:31] know that the great States was already

[27:33] here because Montgomery pinea was a

[27:36] great estate right we had some on North

[27:40] Palmer just over the mananas river also

[27:44] so Satan was already as part of the

[27:48] Great EST States when he came in at

[27:51] 1900 the Montgomery Pine Edom used to

[27:53] have an 18 Mansion 18 room mansion um

[27:58] there it had uh Barns and uh all kinds

[28:03] of support animals and so forth so uh

[28:06] Satan was moving right into that

[28:09] area Satan christened his new cab estate

[28:15] windig now he says that when he told

[28:20] everyone that windigo was named for his

[28:24] British

[28:26] Scottish always back and forth British

[28:28] or Scottish um

[28:30] ancestors now he often claimed to have a

[28:36] connection with a

[28:39] um royal family or lineage we don't know

[28:43] if that was ever documented and we don't

[28:46] know how uh secure that was but he often

[28:51] used that other houses he had later on

[28:54] he also named for these British

[28:56] ancestors

[28:58] now Wendy

[28:59] ghoul uh was reached by a driveway a

[29:03] quarter of a mile uphill driveway not

[29:06] from where you see the driveway today

[29:08] but uh originally all the way at the

[29:11] very southern

[29:12] end now you see these lovely um Gates

[29:17] and

[29:19] um this the gates and the gate post and

[29:25] the rod

[29:26] iron keep that in

[29:28] mind now um he built the house along his

[29:33] own design plans it's not

[29:37] necessarily

[29:38] um a fabulous architectural

[29:42] design but it's his combination

[29:46] of seatan style u boxy frames boxy rooms

[29:51] um terracotta roof um it was his own

[29:56] design and and because we have no record

[29:58] of who designed

[30:00] it it was only a family home was only

[30:03] one part of his facet of

[30:07] transformation he also designed and

[30:09] Damned a brook to create the pond he um

[30:13] added folies around the house around the

[30:17] grounds um he had the a root cellar put

[30:21] in we don't know there's your there's

[30:23] your U Folly Springhouse folly

[30:28] he also put in

[30:30] um Al also brought in lots of animals to

[30:34] help

[30:36] um populate the area he brought in he

[30:39] imported squirrels we can hardly imagine

[30:42] why you would import squirrels but we

[30:43] have enough but he brought in squirrels

[30:46] otter Fox water file

[30:50] peacocks and over a hundred

[30:53] skunks he was doing some cross breeding

[30:56] experiments with skunks

[30:58] and so um that was very interesting uh

[31:02] now if you look back on the Gate of the

[31:07] house keep this gate in mind uh Satan

[31:11] built the gate and all the walls around

[31:14] the property because he didn't like the

[31:17] local kids coming in and killing the

[31:19] small animals he felt you should live

[31:22] with nature and of course the small

[31:24] young boys were were used to being able

[31:28] to walk onto that property and kill the

[31:30] squirrels or the rabbits I mean that was

[31:33] their childhood activity and he said no no you can't do that so he kept

[31:39] that's the reason he put up the wall but

[31:42] that didn't keep the boys from being

[31:44] very angry and then they put lwd uh

[31:48] graffiti and terrible signs on his Gates

[31:52] and around the walls so instead of going

[31:55] to the uh local police Poli and

[31:58] complaining what he did is he went to

[32:00] the costop

[32:01] school because his theory was

[32:05] that not one boy in a thousand is born

[32:09] bad bad boys have Badness thrust upon

[32:13] them okay so he's thinking okay I can do

[32:17] this I can help these boys so he talked

[32:20] to them it was about the Easter of

[32:23] 1902 and he invited them to come and

[32:26] spend the weekend on his

[32:28] property and they had a hoot and a half

[32:33] they enjoyed it there are some wonderful

[32:36] oral oral history about these young boys

[32:41] and what they had fun doing while on the

[32:44] property with Ernest Thompson

[32:48] Sean they let me see if I I want to make

[32:50] sure I get this they had days and nights

[32:53] filled with learning about indigenous

[32:55] folklore camping tp's environmental

[32:59] stewardship canoeing on the pond and

[33:01] learning the sport of archery and woven

[33:05] into these fun group activities with

[33:07] principles of living

[33:10] immorality this was wonderful for them

[33:14] it's what was important to Ernest

[33:16] Thompson

[33:17] Satan and it went on and on for this is

[33:22] the young this is the man who gave this

[33:26] picture to the Greenwich oral history um

[33:31] it was quite fun for them I think

[33:34] situated up high on the wendou property

[33:37] Satan and his he called him the

[33:39] Woodcraft Indians created a permanent

[33:42] ceremonial

[33:43] Center a large it was two large stones

[33:46] that he set up um perpendicular using

[33:50] cement which I don't think was original

[33:53] indigenous cement but he put them up

[33:56] together and uh you can still go and uh

[34:00] find it today this medicine rock is

[34:02] still intact and it's on the trail now

[34:07] Satan wrote articles on how he worked

[34:10] with these young boys and it's published

[34:12] in the Ladies Home

[34:14] Journal and these articles

[34:17] became kind of his uh subsequent book on

[34:21] the Woodcraft and this is what he pulled

[34:24] together um as a of how he was setting

[34:28] up this Woodcraft Indians now what

[34:32] happened was um while Satan was in

[34:36] England on a speaking tour he met

[34:39] Colonel Robert pton Powell now Robert

[34:44] Payton Powell was a soldier a retired

[34:48] Soldier he had been in the bore war and

[34:52] he had an idea of how to teach scouting

[34:58] because he had been a scout in the war

[35:02] so it was his idea to do scouting for

[35:06] boys that was in England and Satan met

[35:09] with him and they exchanged papers and

[35:12] so forth and so that's how the Woodcraft

[35:15] Indians became part of the founding of

[35:18] the Boy Scouts of

[35:20] America um in 1910 Satan helped find uh

[35:25] found excuse me the Boy Scouts of

[35:27] America and he became the chief Scout

[35:29] for the first five

[35:31] years um he severed ties with the Boy

[35:35] Scouts because they were um

[35:39] including the use of guns and so forth

[35:43] in the uh Boy Scouts and he did not

[35:46] approve of that still trying to protect

[35:48] the

[35:49] animals um in

[35:53] 1912 the

[35:54] seans sell windigo

[35:57] to New York Finance year excuse me

[36:01] Maurice work time it was for

[36:05] $250,000 the most expensive real estate

[36:08] transaction of the

[36:10] time Ernest Satan Thompson eventually

[36:13] moved to Santa Fe and lived until 1946

[36:16] his daughter

[36:17] Anna I'm sure all of you know this from

[36:20] your childhood she was um the author of

[36:25] many popular historical novels including

[36:27] the winthrip woman which was partly uh

[36:30] set in Old

[36:31] grenwich now Maurice was a successful

[36:36] investor of a very successful industrial

[36:39] father industrialist

[36:42] father um and he enjoyed Wendy ghoul in

[36:45] ccob as a summer weekend

[36:49] retreat

[36:50] um I don't know if any of you know this

[36:53] but in 1931 it burned had a very very bad fire there and when they

[36:58] rebuilt it they got rid of the third

[37:01] floor and uh the arcaded

[37:04] porch but

[37:06] um wor time was uh quite an impressive

[37:11] man he was the founder and former

[37:13] director of the New York theater Guild

[37:16] an avid art

[37:19] collector all now at the fog Museum in h

[37:23] Harvard he was a champion chess player

[37:26] he is credited with founding the

[37:30] initiating the American Russian uh chess

[37:34] battles uh foremost he served as

[37:37] president of the American Jewish

[37:39] committee and he was honorary Trustee of

[37:42] the Federation of Jewish philanthropies

[37:44] of New

[37:45] York now over

[37:47] time the the acreage

[37:51] grew uh it was at this time that you see

[37:55] here was 150 Acres this is a 1938

[38:00] map and you can't it's very hard to tell

[38:04] but up close you can see that it's

[38:07] already divided into the Estates

[38:10] separate Estates for the work times

[38:12] daughters they had um uh three

[38:17] daughters um and the property was

[38:20] divided at that

[38:22] time the um Ann langum Barbara tuckman

[38:27] and

[38:28] Josephine uh

[38:31] pomerance now as noted on the two plaqu

[38:35] installed on the windy

[38:37] walls on June 7th 1942

[38:42] Zionist uh and selected American Jewish

[38:44] committee leaders met

[38:46] informally at

[38:48] wyou um and developed the ccob formula

[38:53] that advocated unrestricted Jewish

[38:56] immigrant

[38:57] ation um to make organized and auton

[39:01] autonomous Commonwealth the costop

[39:04] formula caused a great deal of

[39:07] controversy among the American Jewish

[39:10] committee leadership and was

[39:13] rejected uh only after World War II when

[39:16] the full extent of the Holocaust became

[39:18] known and no no refuge was found for its

[39:21] survivors did the dissenting factions

[39:24] join in an effort to establish a Jewish

[39:27] State Maurice uh werheim died in 1950 at

[39:32] the age of 62 but his children and

[39:35] grandchildren have carried

[39:37] on his legacy and also Satan's Legacy

[39:41] that's all about caring and

[39:44] stewardship Josephine W

[39:47] time pomerance Josephine wor pomerans

[39:52] spearheaded efforts for nuclear arms

[39:54] control as founder head of the committee

[39:57] for World development and World

[40:00] disarmament she later helped lead the

[40:03] non-governmental committee on

[40:06] disarmament a group that played a major

[40:09] role in promoting disarmament at the UN

[40:12] W times's daughter Barbara tuckman

[40:15] two-time Pulitzer prize-winning

[40:17] historian grew up and continued to live

[40:20] in ccob on a part-time

[40:23] basis there is the claim that Barbara

[40:25] tuckman is the one woman who unwittingly

[40:28] taught JFK

[40:30] strategy after reading her guns of

[40:34] August Jack Kennedy bought dozens and

[40:36] dozens of copies of the

[40:39] book and he considered it such an

[40:42] insightful examination of what led up to

[40:46] World War I that he distributed it to US military leaders

[40:53] with the command read it Kennedy

[40:57] credited the insights gain from

[40:58] tuckman's book to have been very

[41:02] instrumental in settling the Cuban

[41:05] Missile

[41:07] Crisis Barbara tuckman had three

[41:09] daughters Jessica Lucy and

[41:12] Elma barbera's writing Studio or cabin

[41:15] still stands on the 43 acre Alman

[41:18] tuckman parcel at the southern limit of

[41:22] the outside the Sean worktime party

[41:27] Jessica excuse me Jessica tuckman

[41:32] Matthews at one time was director of

[41:36] global issues for the National Security

[41:38] Council she is a recognized American

[41:41] International Affairs expert with a

[41:44] focus on climate and energy defense and

[41:46] Security nuclear weapons and conflict

[41:49] and

[41:50] governance now RI

[41:53] pomerance Josephine son is an American

[41:58] environmentalist he is a distinguished

[42:00] senior Arctic policy fellow of the

[42:03] woodwell climate Research Center since

[42:06] the late 1970s he has played a key role

[42:09] in ra raising awareness of the risk of

[42:11] climate change in US government

[42:16] policy until

[42:19] 2001 Satan's Wendy ghoul was a

[42:22] functioning residential home the town of

[42:25] granch IR ired the property

[42:28] approximately 75 Acres the town with

[42:31] much public input and

[42:34] consideration stabilize the historic

[42:37] resources for the

[42:38] future today the remaining stone walls

[42:41] outline the first story of the original

[42:44] windy

[42:46] gou all of us are currently in the

[42:49] process of considering the best path for

[42:52] the future for the public and the varied

[42:55] resources how do we care for preserve

[42:59] celebrate and enjoy this historical and

[43:02] natural

[43:04] treasure thanks

[43:09] Cey and that all leads us to the site

[43:12] today so it has this incredible Rich

[43:15] history and there's remnants of that

[43:18] physically all throughout the landscape

[43:20] which is what makes the Pomer and

[43:21] tuckman site so interesting to explore

[43:24] so I'm going to go through some of the

[43:26] existing uh features that a visitor

[43:29] nowadays uh experiences when you come to this park it's as we said uh it's set

[43:36] aside for Passive Recreation that was um

[43:39] the goal that was achieved in 2001 when

[43:41] the palmerin parcel was first bought the

[43:44] park today offers

[43:47] um hiking trails or probably the the

[43:50] main feature all throughout its acreage

[43:53] there's a parking area off of orchards

[43:56] Street um there's signage that orients

[43:59] visitors right off of that parking area

[44:02] and restrooms not far from there in the

[44:05] center of the park uh at the pond which

[44:08] you can see on in the middle of the map

[44:10] there there's um a dam which affords

[44:14] Waterfront uh access uh fishing is

[44:18] allowed boating is not allowed there

[44:19] isn't really access to to bring a boat

[44:22] to the interior of the park and then the

[44:25] rest of it is Earth Earth and trails

[44:27] used for hiking jogging and dog walking

[44:30] so the two main points of arrival that

[44:33] are somewhat formalized are the Orchard

[44:35] Street parking lot which has that

[44:37] signage kiosk with the map on the left

[44:39] and then on the right there's a more

[44:40] modest signage kiosk welcoming people

[44:43] from the Bible Street

[44:44] playground there's also informal access

[44:47] from um the Montgomery Pine nedum that

[44:50] just sort of weaves its way into the

[44:52] pomerat and tuckman parcels and as I

[44:54] described there's the the parking area

[44:57] the next few slides you'll see where we

[44:59] are on the map with these photos with

[45:01] the little yellow circle on the map

[45:03] that's going to move around so over here

[45:06] is the Bible Street

[45:09] entrance there's um a few former

[45:13] driveways which are paved with asphalt

[45:17] um and there's stone dust Paving along

[45:21] the dam and then the remainder of the

[45:24] site is access

[45:26] by informal packed Earth uh hiking

[45:30] trails there's one place where there's a

[45:32] wooden Boardwalk crossing a wetland in

[45:34] the north crossing over Brothers Brook

[45:37] and there's a little bit of directional

[45:39] signage throughout the park not a ton

[45:42] there's um some Blaze Trails so a bit of

[45:46] um organization to keep people oriented

[45:49] while while walking here there's a rest

[45:52] one restroom not far from the parking

[45:55] area

[45:57] this is that Folly that CC was telling

[46:00] us about constructed back during the

[46:02] Great EST States

[46:03] era these are basically decorative

[46:05] structures built to make the landscape

[46:08] look almost more historic than it was at

[46:10] the time but now even the Great Mansion

[46:12] is a

[46:15] Folly this is the dam this is kind of

[46:17] one of the most of the sit's forested

[46:19] the dam is the place where it opens up

[46:21] to to a wider Vista um you get out into

[46:25] the sun

[46:26] spend time by the

[46:29] water the um house up on the west side

[46:33] of the pond was a more modern house that

[46:37] was um occupied I think by the the

[46:39] pomerans family and when the town

[46:41] acquired this property in 2001 part of

[46:44] the um recommendations that the

[46:47] committee put together were to find a

[46:49] nonprofit who could uh lease this house

[46:53] that wouldn't be incompatible with the

[46:55] rest of the property prop use as a park

[46:57] so there's a a nonprofit abelis is a

[46:59] organization that assists people living

[47:01] with disabilities and they there's uh

[47:05] people who live here and uh stay here

[47:07] during the day and it's um compatible it

[47:10] seems to be compatible with the uses of the site and it's a good use for that

[47:14] house so that that part's a little bit

[47:16] off limits to the public um the so on

[47:20] the other side across from that from the

[47:22] pond is this Sunken Garden back from SE

[47:26] era which has no special attention

[47:29] brought to it it's off of one of the

[47:31] formalized trails you just sort of

[47:33] stumble upon it if you're walking um a

[47:37] little bit off Trail but it's kind of an

[47:39] interesting place with its retaining

[47:41] walls and it's terracing uh despite

[47:43] overgrowth it still kind of reads like a

[47:47] garden whereas up on top of the hill the

[47:50] windy ghoul Mansion ruins have been

[47:52] purposely curated by the town uh um The

[47:56] Mansion was becoming dilapidated and

[48:00] posed a lot of risks and um was falling

[48:03] into disrepair so it was decided I think

[48:05] it was back in 2014 to selectively

[48:08] demolish the house but leave the rugged

[48:10] intact Stone first floor so now it it

[48:12] provides this kind of interesting ruin

[48:16] that is surrounded by a mowed lawn up on

[48:18] the top of the hill that really centers

[48:21] the site's history kind of in the middle

[48:22] of the park and flanking it are a couple

[48:24] of overlooks to the East and to the West

[48:27] which um at times can be overgrown with

[48:30] vegetation that kind of blocks the

[48:33] views there's a boardwalk that um spans

[48:37] between the two hilltops at sedan's

[48:39] former

[48:40] mansion and this leads over one of the paths down in the woods over to the

[48:48] um former swimming pool of windy ghoul

[48:51] which has since been filled in but its

[48:53] Stone Terraces and stairs are still

[48:57] there semi intact in the woods overgrown

[49:00] with invasive Vines and Plants and

[49:03] Things there's a lot of cor we'll talk

[49:05] about this in a moment a lot of

[49:05] residential garden plants that sort of

[49:08] became established in the woods because

[49:10] of its history as a overgrown you know

[49:13] former Mansion site there's this

[49:15] interesting feature down here associated

[49:17] with Wy ghoul The Root Cellar on the

[49:19] hillside coming down from Windy ghoul

[49:22] down in the woods and that's just you

[49:24] can walk right into it it's just kind of

[49:26] left in an unaltered State a bit of

[49:28] graffiti in there

[49:31] today um and cor is going to talk a bit

[49:34] about the existing ecological conditions

[49:36] on the

[49:37] site hello okay uh so yeah as Dan

[49:42] mentioned uh a site visit was conducted

[49:45] in early September that focused on

[49:48] reviewing the ecological details

[49:50] characteristics of the park the map on

[49:53] screen was put together based on these

[49:55] characteristics that we observed um most

[49:58] of these characteristics are influenced

[50:01] namely from geography much of this park

[50:03] is either high and Rocky or wet and low

[50:07] and that therefore then influences what

[50:10] vegetation you have growing throughout

[50:12] the park um over story and under story

[50:17] vegetation um so much of the vegetation

[50:21] that we observed on site is fairly

[50:23] typical of a southern New England Forest

[50:25] a lot of the dominant trees included

[50:28] American Beach Red Oak red maple Norway

[50:31] maple which is invasive um but uh one

[50:35] big characteristic is the tulip trees we

[50:38] um we observed quite a few um large

[50:41] tulip stands on the property um tulip poplar it's the same species with

[50:48] different names um is has quite a large

[50:52] range um but if you're looking at just

[50:55] New England it's mostly concentrated in

[50:57] Southern New England so Connecticut

[50:59] Massachusetts Rhode Island so it's

[51:01] fairly um it's more common in our lower

[51:08] States um another feature that we were

[51:10] looking for was Wetlands um before going

[51:13] out to the site we were um we conducted

[51:16] desktop surveys to kind of see where

[51:19] Wetlands had been formally mapped

[51:21] looking at hydric soils and then going

[51:24] out to those parts of the park and

[51:26] seeing if the desktop survey was

[51:29] confirmed um by on-site

[51:32] investigations um no formal delineations

[51:36] were conducted it was mostly kind of

[51:38] just observ quick quick observations of

[51:41] soil and looking at signs of um

[51:44] hydrology and Wetland

[51:46] vegetation um these are some examples

[51:48] the lawn behind the um restrooms near

[51:52] the main parking area is a notable wet

[51:54] area there's also areas along trails

[51:57] that are quite notable we found some

[51:58] areas that had not been formerly mapped

[52:01] that appeared to be additional Wetlands

[52:03] on property as

[52:06] well um another feature that people are

[52:09] probably familiar with if you've been to

[52:10] the park is the meadow there's a trail

[52:12] that leads from The Root Cellar up and

[52:15] around the meadow um Meadows are could

[52:19] be a Meadows are a fairly unique habitat

[52:23] um typically when you find a meadow you

[52:25] develop it because it's flat and it's

[52:27] there's not much to get rid of but

[52:30] Meadows also make for important habitats

[52:33] not just pollinators but also a lot of

[52:36] native birds will um use Meadows for

[52:38] nesting and for cover habitat um there

[52:42] are we found evidence of what look to be

[52:45] quite a few invasives in the meadow I'll

[52:47] get deeper into invasives in a later

[52:49] slide but and also what looks to be

[52:52] evidence of encroachment from trees that

[52:55] are encroaching on the meadow from the

[52:57] sides and also trees and invasives that

[52:59] are growing up um within the meadow

[53:01] itself but that is typical um it's

[53:05] common for habitats to shift and change

[53:07] typically if you want to keep a meadow a

[53:10] meadow that means you would need to

[53:11] maintain it as a

[53:14] meadow and here we are sorry um

[53:18] invasives everyone's favorite topic um

[53:22] as Dan mentioned before um with the

[53:25] previous history of the site being

[53:27] homesteads being um uh big Estates it's

[53:30] common to have invasives sites with a

[53:32] lot of previous disturbance it's easy

[53:35] for invasives to establish themselves a

[53:37] lot of these many of you here are

[53:39] probably familiar with youve probably

[53:41] seen them in your own backyards tree of

[53:43] Heaven is a common one um Japanese

[53:47] Barberry is a very common one um spotter

[53:50] Lantern fly has gotten a lot of

[53:51] attention in recent years uh Beach Leaf

[53:54] Disease is becoming a growing problem in

[53:57] Connecticut and much of the rest of the

[53:59] country um Japanese silk um Japanese

[54:02] silk grass many of the invasives that we

[54:04] observe though were mostly concentrated

[54:07] along the trail edges rather than within

[54:10] the park interior that does make sense

[54:13] where you have most of the activity most

[54:15] of the movement of people it's easier

[54:17] for invasives to establish and move

[54:20] around with AIDS with the AIDS of

[54:24] um people moving

[54:29] around so to start to summarize all of

[54:33] the the background information that we

[54:34] were looking into we're going to talk

[54:35] about challenges and opportunities at at

[54:39] this unique site so cor was just talking

[54:42] about in invasive uh you know plant

[54:45] diseases invasive plant

[54:47] species um in addition to some of the

[54:50] ones cor mentioned there's um you know

[54:53] jumping worms or a newcomer to the area

[54:56] that affects the soil there's there's a

[54:58] host of of challenges that that are

[55:00] typical to a large property like

[55:03] this um there's impacts of foot traffic

[55:07] on Trails which is ongoing we talked

[55:09] about that at the beginning one of the

[55:11] slides cor shared shows where you have

[55:15] ponding in a trail people tend to walk

[55:18] around it to avoid that and then that

[55:20] causes the trail to get wider and wider so that gets into you know m

[55:25] maintenance and uh planning of where

[55:27] Trails go it's a one one of the great

[55:30] uses of the park is it's well used for

[55:33] walking dogs but with that comes um the

[55:36] need to pick up dog waste and that

[55:37] that's often cited as a challenge um and

[55:42] then just general ongoing maintenance of

[55:43] trails trees and structures on the site

[55:46] so some some images of some of those

[55:50] challenges uh Trail erosion is a common

[55:53] one again not unique to this site but

[55:55] this site has you know a few instances

[55:58] where the clear space where foot traffic

[56:01] goes is also where water flows as it

[56:03] makes its way downhill and that scourers

[56:04] and causes

[56:07] damage and of course there's loads of

[56:10] opportunities for a site as unique as

[56:14] this as we've been over it's not just a

[56:18] woodland it's a woodland that's full of

[56:20] uh remnants of greenwich's

[56:23] History there's

[56:25] a diverse Forest composition mix of

[56:28] species there's Scenic diverse

[56:31] Landscapes it it's a very interesting

[56:33] place to walk

[56:35] through for that reason um including

[56:37] Meadow the meadow itself has the

[56:39] potential for enhancement as as a

[56:42] pollinator habitat it serves that role

[56:44] already but there's there's further

[56:46] opportunity

[56:47] there um thinking larger in scale the site's walking distance from a lot

[56:53] of people's homes it's connected to the

[56:55] neighborhood and the other neighborhood

[56:57] parks there could be potential for

[57:00] additional signage whether that's

[57:02] historic ecological educational trail

[57:05] maps this gets into the the content of

[57:08] what we'll

[57:10] discuss um the rest the rest of the the

[57:13] evening so what we're planning to do is

[57:16] we'll turn it around to all of you and

[57:19] we'll um spend some time together um

[57:23] having some kind of question an answer

[57:25] discussion time it's open-ended you know

[57:28] we haven't started drafting

[57:30] recommendations for this plan yet but um

[57:34] the goal as I think you can probably

[57:36] tell from the presentation so far is

[57:38] we're not trying to reinvent the wheel

[57:40] here with the Palmer and tuckman site I

[57:42] think we probably all agree that it's well used uh as a site for Passive

[57:47] Recreation and provides a valuable

[57:48] resource and the goal is probably

[57:51] finding out how to Steward it and

[57:53] protect it so it can Contin continue to

[57:56] serve as that resource that seems to be

[57:58] so well

[58:02] valued so that's yeah so we'll just open

[58:06] it up and I'm just for the sake of

[58:07] anybody who's watching on Zoom because

[58:09] this is being

[58:11] recorded um since you all don't have

[58:13] microphones as a formality I'm going to

[58:15] do my best to repeat the questions that

[58:16] you each say go

[58:23] ahead

[58:40] maybe on Greg do you want to speak to

[58:41] that the question was um what is the

[58:43] status of current maintenance at the

[58:46] park yes so the current maintenance is

[58:49] we're as a department parks department

[58:51] and with volunteer groups are removing

[58:55] invasives uh planting native trees and

[58:58] plants and shrubs and perennials working

[59:00] in the meadow so there is work being

[59:04] done but we're looking for this project

[59:07] and this master plan to cohes ofy all

[59:10] the work and and and set some priorities

[59:14] and sort of you know produce the road

[59:16] map to achieve all the goals we're doing

[59:19] now and other goals as well so there is

[59:21] maintenance and work happening in the

[59:22] park but we're looking for this to

[59:24] really

[59:25] highlight what it is we want to do and

[59:28] collectively and but also um you know

[59:32] maybe even help set some timelines and also you know request extra funding

[59:37] or capital projects or you know maybe go

[59:40] for Grants to help support some of these projects as we have them spelled

[59:43] out in the master

[59:46] plan go

[59:48] ahead my

[59:50] name

[59:51] and I want say that we up this

[59:58] place I mean minimum we want to see it

[1:00:02] maintained maintain really well this

[1:00:05] year I don't know what happened but all

[1:00:07] these trees are growing usually they

[1:00:10] andow the hill all these trees are

[1:00:13] growing all those um but my main concern

[1:00:17] was you know in your letter you said

[1:00:20] we're concerned about traffic and

[1:00:23] eological

[1:00:25] degradation and yet some of the ideas in

[1:00:28] the survey would only

[1:00:30] increase bike trails

[1:00:37] dog Recreation these are things that I

[1:00:40] totally against

[1:00:47] idea I know

[1:00:53] my thank

[1:00:59] you I'm going to assume that the

[1:01:01] Applause generally signifies

[1:01:04] agreement um just for the sake of those

[1:01:06] who couldn't hear um the the comment was

[1:01:08] we love the park the way it is it's

[1:01:10] valuable resource and some of the um

[1:01:13] options that were floated in the online

[1:01:16] survey including bike paths dog parks

[1:01:20] represent too high a level of active

[1:01:23] Recreation and we want to maintain that

[1:01:26] passive use that it currently has and

[1:01:27] the focus in that case would be keeping

[1:01:31] up with what we already love making sure

[1:01:33] it can continue to to offer essentially

[1:01:37] the same program it currently

[1:01:42] does note down the

[1:01:45] Applause

[1:01:48] yes hi my name is Art Shermer I'm living

[1:01:51] in the area

[1:01:53] for about 18 years I spent time there at

[1:01:58] least two three times a week I love this

[1:02:01] area it's a major reason I actually both

[1:02:04] brage I'm a very active person I do like

[1:02:08] bicycling and so on but I am in

[1:02:11] agreement this is an oasis the quiet

[1:02:13] areas of whatever bicycling or something

[1:02:16] like that is okay but it has to be a

[1:02:19] separated clear area because hiking dogs

[1:02:22] scrollers and bicycles

[1:02:24] you can have like disorder and so on so

[1:02:27] this is certainly something to wrestle

[1:02:30] with right um I would encourage you to

[1:02:33] think winter and summertime I don't

[1:02:36] quite understand why you cannot have a

[1:02:38] skating rink or something like that

[1:02:40] because we don't have enough skating in

[1:02:43] greenage snowshoeing is wonderful in

[1:02:45] Winter an observation I have is the

[1:02:49] trail sign isues are not very good

[1:02:51] there's no distances so somebody doesn't

[1:02:54] know

[1:02:54] one mile Gentle Family Walk Five Mile

[1:02:58] more sporty type of Trail it goes a bit

[1:03:01] to a bigger point the town of Greenwich

[1:03:03] somehow is not capable of doing a mobile

[1:03:06] app that would have a map because if we

[1:03:09] didn't it all together right we could

[1:03:12] get this on our devices then we don't

[1:03:15] need to do so much signage because we

[1:03:17] can bring it along I am for signage in

[1:03:20] the park particularly if you have out of

[1:03:22] town visitors that are not familiar the

[1:03:24] area and so on that could help I would

[1:03:28] ask you as our consultants and so on to

[1:03:31] consider a few

[1:03:32] things I'd like to really understand who

[1:03:35] uses that Park the most suspect it's

[1:03:38] very nearby I see a lot of FO traffic

[1:03:41] there's not really so so many cars most

[1:03:43] cars have Conneticut plates cob is a

[1:03:47] large part of brage unfortunately it

[1:03:49] does not have an active current

[1:03:51] neighborhood association which is a

[1:03:53] disadvantage

[1:03:54] I don't know whether there's the friends

[1:03:56] of pman and park but I would encourage

[1:04:00] you to seek a little bit like who is

[1:04:02] involved we have various Representatives

[1:04:04] here from tree conver Conservancy byro

[1:04:08] you represent sustainability committee

[1:04:11] and some others so there's a lot of

[1:04:13] expertise in in this room I do have a

[1:04:16] crazy Visionary type of idea we have a

[1:04:20] water water flow problem in

[1:04:23] Greenwich and I'd like to see something

[1:04:26] like small Lake whichever we're want to

[1:04:28] call it Omar because we need to redirect

[1:04:33] water we have water issues everywhere

[1:04:36] ppw has looked left and right Mr Kramer

[1:04:40] it's not easy we have huge challenges

[1:04:43] but we cannot defer into the

[1:04:45] future there is a possibility to have

[1:04:49] some sort of a drought Reserve to do

[1:04:51] this in an aesthetical way with nice

[1:04:54] daming or walking things and so on so

[1:04:56] that peacefulness can be preserved but

[1:04:59] we need to deal better with water too

[1:05:02] complicated to expensive is not an

[1:05:04] answer we need to make progress and

[1:05:07] think differently doesn't have to be

[1:05:09] pumps and pipes maybe it could be a

[1:05:12] beautiful Aqueduct or something so let's

[1:05:15] also think about the water issues around

[1:05:18] please and the other thing is I don't

[1:05:22] see too many people in here sorry I'm 63

[1:05:25] years old I'm an old fart okay but I

[1:05:29] don't see too many families with pits

[1:05:31] here people's in their 20 and 30 we have

[1:05:34] a lot of newcomers to town especially in

[1:05:36] cost please do a Saturday morning

[1:05:40] meeting at the costop library where the

[1:05:42] families with the strollers and the dogs

[1:05:45] can come by please spend the extra time

[1:05:48] to come and seek for feedback thank you

[1:05:50] so much for your work I really

[1:05:52] appreciate it thank you

[1:05:58] uh and once again I'll I'll respond to a

[1:06:00] few of those things um assuming not

[1:06:02] everyone who would listen in later hears

[1:06:04] uh the comments

[1:06:05] included um when multi-season

[1:06:09] opportunities uh should be looked at uh

[1:06:11] potentially skating um Trail signage

[1:06:14] There's an opportunity there a Mobile

[1:06:15] app could help greatly with that to

[1:06:17] further enhanced

[1:06:19] signage um more involvement in the

[1:06:22] neighborhood could help though there is

[1:06:24] the friends of uh the park organization

[1:06:26] already the water flow problem um there was a study done who was the

[1:06:30] consultant um there was a study done a

[1:06:32] few years ago that looked at possible

[1:06:34] sites in Greenwich for for flood

[1:06:36] mitigation and this they did a chapter

[1:06:38] on on this site looking into the

[1:06:39] feasibility of that no progress there's

[1:06:42] been no progress since it you say need

[1:06:44] to continue to work that their

[1:06:46] recommendations were very very general I

[1:06:48] looked through it and it didn't really

[1:06:49] say here's what you would engineer

[1:06:51] here's what you would do it was kind of

[1:06:53] okay for further study I don't want to

[1:06:55] speak too much but it all leads to no

[1:06:58] action which is not acceptable it's

[1:07:02] 2023 yeah so we'll we'll we'll note that

[1:07:05] down um and then yeah further public

[1:07:09] Outreach for this project I think that is a great suggestion any

[1:07:13] strategies to reach the broadest

[1:07:15] audience possible a Saturday morning

[1:07:17] meeting at the library could be a good

[1:07:18] idea for the next meeting so we still

[1:07:21] have to plan that one yes go ahead

[1:07:24] hi my name is Lindsay and I'm the

[1:07:27] director of the CER and very much wanted

[1:07:31] to thank you all this process and this

[1:07:34] meeting and

[1:07:37] having um obviously the pum and the

[1:07:41] comand properties are backyard the home

[1:07:45] for the grenwich Botanical center and

[1:07:49] point we also don't want to see much

[1:07:51] change and that is primarily because he it is a laboratory for we are

[1:07:57] able to reach many many children we have

[1:08:01] uh we're in sh experience for the all

[1:08:04] entire third grade BR Public Schools we

[1:08:07] also do many field for the first grade

[1:08:09] and we're reaching out to many other

[1:08:11] schools to offer our property and

[1:08:14] programs um to the school to learn

[1:08:16] abouty dant caty water Etc we also have

[1:08:22] onsite programming for uh for children

[1:08:24] and nature Emer program called Forest so

[1:08:29] the fact that this amazing Place offers

[1:08:31] an environment in which to do all of

[1:08:33] those things and reach the families and

[1:08:36] the children and our communi is hugely valuable so um I'm just going to

[1:08:42] put that plug in and we would also very

[1:08:45] much be happy to host a meeting atan

[1:08:48] Center and I would also be very happy to

[1:08:50] Rally all of our families in support of

[1:08:53] uh the vision for

[1:08:58] the thank

[1:09:00] [Applause]

[1:09:02] you yeah yep uh guys we do apologize we

[1:09:07] uh were supposed to have the mobile

[1:09:08] microphone for the podium we did not

[1:09:10] have that set up but um we do want to

[1:09:12] hear your comments we want to capture it

[1:09:14] accurately so one of our thoughts is we

[1:09:16] have that far right microphone next to

[1:09:18] uh Dr Kramer over there we could turn

[1:09:20] that microphone on if you guys feel

[1:09:22] comfortable speaking directly in there

[1:09:23] so we can have everybody on zoom and on

[1:09:26] the recording hear your comments because

[1:09:27] we just want to make sure that we

[1:09:29] accurately uh present that so if that's

[1:09:32] uh comfortable with you guys we can get

[1:09:33] that set up over on the far right uh

[1:09:35] side of the microphone right

[1:09:38] there all right thank you yeah don't be afraid to step up to the

[1:09:44] microphone go

[1:09:52] ahead

[1:09:58] yeah well I I can recap it too if you

[1:10:16] yeah yeah there there seems to be

[1:10:21] agreement I mean the comment was that

[1:10:24] uh dog walking is currently a highly

[1:10:27] valued use of the park and for any uh

[1:10:30] plan going forward to continue to

[1:10:32] include that and and not further limit

[1:10:35] um walking dogs on the

[1:10:39] Park

[1:10:40] goe stat from

[1:10:45] first says over years AG when

[1:10:52] I

[1:11:11] went thank you so that was that was a

[1:11:14] pilot program that allowed dogs where

[1:11:16] exactly I didn't I just didn't catch

[1:11:18] that part I didn't hear you sorry

[1:11:21] um just that there was a pilot plan when

[1:11:25] he was on years ago because there

[1:11:29] was in

[1:11:31] and program and never

[1:11:37] Chang oh I see I see so basically the

[1:11:40] use of the park today which does allow

[1:11:42] walking dogs on the park was piloted 20

[1:11:44] years ago that was considered successful

[1:11:46] and then it has never changed it was

[1:11:48] basically it was

[1:11:50] instituted

[1:11:52] okay

[1:11:54] it's

[1:11:56] thank yes

[1:11:59] thanks I saw this hand first I think my

[1:12:03] name is Tom kill I love thank you for

[1:12:06] what you've done so

[1:12:07] faral way it is CC I appreciated your

[1:12:11] history and I think that the one thing

[1:12:13] that I would love to see is that on the

[1:12:16] in the hill on the hill at the sou part

[1:12:19] of the park you can see the the house

[1:12:21] where bar talk yeah right there like a

[1:12:25] going up just barely see it I would love

[1:12:28] there to be some sort

[1:12:30] of really remarkable that this woman in

[1:12:34] the woods of kasav wrote books that

[1:12:36] arguably

[1:12:38] Sol is just amazing and I just feel like

[1:12:41] it's not recognized at all I always tell

[1:12:44] people when I'm there like that be black

[1:12:49] well it's not actually on the property

[1:12:51] you can just see it so you see it on the

[1:12:52] yeah it's on the

[1:12:56] that that's that's exactly it

[1:13:05] yeah yeah so the the the comment uh was

[1:13:08] the writer Cottage where Barbara tuckman

[1:13:11] wrote her famous books should be should attention be brought to it

[1:13:16] currently that structure is just off the

[1:13:19] town-owned property it's located on the

[1:13:22] privately owned parcel of one of Barbara

[1:13:24] tuckman's daughters who still lives on

[1:13:26] the property so um I guess all I can

[1:13:31] really say is just currently it's not

[1:13:33] owned or controlled by by the town and I suppose um any sort

[1:13:39] of point out it's up there you wouldn't

[1:13:42] even know

[1:13:44] that yeah you know and I agree it's a

[1:13:46] fascinating structure and I think that

[1:13:48] it would it would have to be done in

[1:13:49] coordination with the person who owns

[1:13:51] that land to make sure it was done

[1:13:53] appropriately if if so go

[1:14:16] ahead so the the the comment was that

[1:14:19] the the owner of that property has um

[1:14:21] had to struggle with vandalism an upkeep

[1:14:24] of that structure in the past and we

[1:14:25] want to make sure we're being the best

[1:14:26] neighbor

[1:14:27] possible you raised your hand a while

[1:14:29] ago I

[1:14:42] thinks

[1:14:44] another I've

[1:14:49] been there any fall off

[1:15:11] um thank you for that comment yeah the comment was um first additional

[1:15:16] support of walking dogs on the property

[1:15:18] and secondly attention to the raised

[1:15:20] Boardwalk that has gaps in between the

[1:15:24] rails that are probably out of

[1:15:25] Regulation and should be addressed as

[1:15:27] soon as possible to for

[1:15:32] safety go

[1:15:35] ahead yes please yeah that that'd be

[1:15:37] great yeah go to the far right one just

[1:15:40] because we have the zoom here I don't

[1:15:47] want so good evening folks uh my name is

[1:15:50] James hello oh okay good evening folks

[1:15:54] um just wanted to say as maybe one of

[1:15:56] the younger family oriented individuals

[1:15:59] in the room here uh so we have two young

[1:16:01] daughters um we're we're a dog loving

[1:16:03] family we use this park a lot and um the

[1:16:07] survey concerned me just uh you know

[1:16:10] kind of some of the questions and how

[1:16:12] they were asked so so a few things I

[1:16:14] want to get out there one I think really

[1:16:16] all the park needs is some TLC right you

[1:16:19] need better signage um you need uh you

[1:16:22] know directional signage Maps be it

[1:16:25] online or print um you know maybe a you

[1:16:28] know when you enter you also need I

[1:16:32] think one of the things that was a big

[1:16:34] worry was the whole parking um I think

[1:16:36] the parking is fine as it is uh you know

[1:16:39] maybe better advertising that you can

[1:16:41] park on Bible Street you know in the

[1:16:43] large parking lot there I feel like

[1:16:45] that's kind of a back entrance to the

[1:16:47] park that many don't know of as an

[1:16:49] option of parking um unless you're really uh you know in the weeds

[1:16:54] in the area to say but um you know

[1:16:56] besides Trail maintenance uh you know

[1:16:59] and and mowing the meadow now and again

[1:17:01] to kind of keep it and also preserving

[1:17:03] those historic structures you talked

[1:17:05] about right to to young kids that's it's

[1:17:08] a Whimsical area you know I think one of

[1:17:11] the questions talked about getting rid

[1:17:12] of the bridge right that bridge is kind

[1:17:14] of phenomenal when you're a young kid

[1:17:16] you can go over run around come down and

[1:17:18] underneath it right and uh the the

[1:17:20] little Stone House that you guys had up

[1:17:22] in your slid before I think these are

[1:17:24] all things that make this property

[1:17:27] unique um you know to families to

[1:17:29] Children um and it's also uh just great

[1:17:32] to get out there and walk with your dog

[1:17:34] right um and I see dogs using the park

[1:17:37] all the time uh you know winter spring

[1:17:39] summer and fall so I would ask please no

[1:17:42] additional pavement um in the park right

[1:17:45] no additional parking spaces um I I

[1:17:48] think we're we're kind of good good

[1:17:50] there um but you know just just maintain

[1:17:52] it right right give it that TLC it needs

[1:17:55] give it the better signage um uh so

[1:17:57] individuals can enjoy it more maybe a

[1:17:59] historic note or two about uh you know

[1:18:02] more about the park as a whole and the

[1:18:04] property as a whole but it's so well

[1:18:05] connected with ccob um and with the uh

[1:18:09] you know the school next door with the

[1:18:11] garden center um you know next door uh

[1:18:15] that it would be a shame to turn it into

[1:18:17] a more active use area or to pave it

[1:18:20] over uh with a larger uh parking lot I

[1:18:23] think you know keep it the way it is

[1:18:25] give it some TLC and that'll be it will

[1:18:28] be a great use you know for generations

[1:18:30] to come thank you thank

[1:18:40] you been walking this park since I was

[1:18:43] seven and over that time I absolutely

[1:18:46] love that at least one pavement became

[1:18:49] lawn again um so this is a space that

[1:18:53] has been fantastic at being the

[1:18:57] environment and for many of the school

[1:19:00] groups many of the people in this area

[1:19:02] this is the pressure valve forgetting to

[1:19:06] still be in this area uh paper trail

[1:19:10] maps I hike extensively these QR codes

[1:19:14] great there is not cellular reception

[1:19:17] for most of this park I am unofficial

[1:19:20] Lorax guide um you know Trail

[1:19:23] maintenance person I haul as big a thing

[1:19:26] as I can haul off these Trails uh but

[1:19:30] there are many people who do get turned

[1:19:32] around in the space but these little QR

[1:19:34] codes aren't going to help for this

[1:19:36] particular spot given the geology of

[1:19:39] this particular spot um unless you're

[1:19:41] way up on the Hills so post storm not

[1:19:47] just volunteer citizen but just the

[1:19:50] trails themselves the existing Trails

[1:19:54] getting the huge stuff off when the

[1:19:56] trees just fall lengthwise down the

[1:19:59] favorite Trail and it takes years for

[1:20:01] that tree to rot before it's cut up um

[1:20:05] so just the actual trails that people

[1:20:07] want to stay on uh and can't you know

[1:20:10] just collectively get everything off

[1:20:13] because sometimes you do need Machinery

[1:20:15] to get some of the bigger logs off but

[1:20:18] otherwise echoing what everyone else has

[1:20:21] said is that it is special because it is

[1:20:24] what it currently

[1:20:33] is yes go

[1:20:35] ahead that's okay I'll repeat

[1:20:49] it

[1:20:51] stairs

[1:21:21] then

[1:21:28] thank you the the comments were uh about

[1:21:32] after

[1:21:35] um it was you seeing after storms Fallen

[1:21:38] trees or is that the previous comment

[1:21:41] I'm looking at my notes I apologize the

[1:21:43] fish ladder was the first comment um

[1:21:45] could there be a way for you you know

[1:21:46] where there's a change in elevation in a

[1:21:48] Waterway to have a way for migrating

[1:21:50] fish to come up an elevation with a fish

[1:21:52] lad or eels and the stairs from the

[1:21:55] ruins to um clean those up and make them

[1:21:59] safe and usable and was the program was

[1:22:02] called Forest

[1:22:04] days okay yeah I don't I I haven't

[1:22:06] learned about that

[1:22:08] I they they used to have an awesome um

[1:22:10] teaching area that um the the commenter

[1:22:13] wishes could remain in

[1:22:18] place go ahead hi um I'm s i right on

[1:22:23] the edge so I

[1:22:28] my so but my question is really about me

[1:22:32] because it is a little scary I've been

[1:22:34] um in town for 30 years on the pum and

[1:22:38] every time after the storm it really

[1:22:40] looks different and I do get concerned

[1:22:42] that there are trees that are about to

[1:22:44] fall the trail and you guys have been

[1:22:46] very responsive by email the town and

[1:22:48] people called me where is that spot and

[1:22:52] you found

[1:22:53] but what is the current maintenance

[1:22:57] programs so the question was what is the

[1:23:00] maintenance program in place currently

[1:23:02] with regard to dangerous and Fallen

[1:23:05] trees um in the pum but I assume in the

[1:23:08] pommer and tuckman site as well um maybe

[1:23:10] Greg do you want to answer that sure I can answer that yeah if there's

[1:23:15] something that's precarious or dangerous

[1:23:17] certainly you know send me an email um

[1:23:19] or let staff know and we'll take a look

[1:23:21] at it we don't

[1:23:23] as as a ecological reason go around and

[1:23:26] remove dead trees or snags unless

[1:23:29] they're really close to a trail or or

[1:23:31] seem to be dangerous only because dead

[1:23:34] Deadwood is int it's it's so intricate

[1:23:37] to their survival in the Ecology of the

[1:23:40] woodlands you have various species that

[1:23:42] only live in Deadwood so to remove dead

[1:23:44] trees excuse me if they're not a hazard

[1:23:47] is really um eliminating a very

[1:23:49] important part of the ecological uh

[1:23:51] component of the woods so so again it's

[1:23:54] really on a case-by Case basis um if you

[1:23:56] see something that you know just kind of

[1:23:58] stands out to you certainly let us know

[1:24:00] well we'll take a look at it and make

[1:24:01] that that determination

[1:24:05] absolutely uh yes the microphone

[1:24:09] now my oh you may have to turn your

[1:24:13] little red button on got my red button

[1:24:15] on um I'm a neighbor to the pomarance uh

[1:24:20] property we live right along brother

[1:24:22] Brook and I think it it needs to be uh

[1:24:26] mentioned that part of the experience of

[1:24:29] the park is destroyed uh on the weekends

[1:24:35] in Winter uh beginning this next weekend

[1:24:38] the ski shooting from the um Country

[1:24:42] Club the Greenwich Country Club will

[1:24:44] commence uh at 10: in the morning and

[1:24:47] persist through 400 p.m. uh Saturday and

[1:24:52] Sunday

[1:24:53] and it's heard throughout the park and

[1:24:55] throughout the neighborhood and I I I

[1:24:59] don't know what we can do about it uh

[1:25:02] within this master plan but it is part

[1:25:04] of the experience of that Park and it

[1:25:08] needs to be

[1:25:11] noted thank

[1:25:16] you

[1:25:21] yes

[1:25:33] I'm Pete Yuri and I've lived in town

[1:25:36] about 50

[1:25:38] years and my wife and I use the pomin

[1:25:42] tuckman and pine edum property at least

[1:25:46] once a week probably twice a week and

[1:25:48] it's

[1:25:50] marvelous it's marvelous

[1:25:53] because it is still virtually untouched

[1:25:59] Woodlands that's not to say that in the

[1:26:04] presentation we heard this evening that

[1:26:06] there

[1:26:07] are I don't want hotpots let's call them

[1:26:10] that which can be

[1:26:13] very

[1:26:15] entertaining or fun or

[1:26:18] educational for someone visiting the

[1:26:20] park I I think the sunken garden is a

[1:26:23] good example of

[1:26:25] that I think the ruin is an example of

[1:26:28] that I think the history of Mr seatan is

[1:26:32] interesting to highlight and have some

[1:26:35] information

[1:26:37] about on the other

[1:26:40] hand I think there's a real danger if

[1:26:43] you do too

[1:26:44] much

[1:26:46] now but I learned because I was involved

[1:26:49] with the master planning for Benny Park

[1:26:52] that you can make a plan not only for

[1:26:55] what to do

[1:26:58] currently but also for the

[1:27:01] future and you can not necessarily have

[1:27:05] to

[1:27:06] execute and I'm sure if Mr ceciliano is

[1:27:09] in the room there's probably a budget

[1:27:11] issue that will go along with that too

[1:27:14] that may actually prompt something not

[1:27:16] to happen in in the immediate

[1:27:19] future but the message there is allow

[1:27:25] the ideas that go into the master plan

[1:27:29] to reflect not only what all of us you

[1:27:34] be everyone else wants to have happen in

[1:27:37] the short range and I share that feeling

[1:27:41] let's get it looking a little better

[1:27:43] let's improve the sunen

[1:27:47] garden but then set some priorities for

[1:27:50] what this open space

[1:27:53] will do to serve our community 10 15 20

[1:27:58] years from now the beauty of Benny Park

[1:28:02] 90 years old is that it still has as

[1:28:07] part of its five

[1:28:10] sections about a 10 acre untouched

[1:28:15] Woodland from say

[1:28:19] 1930 and if I ask how many people knew

[1:28:23] this to raise their

[1:28:26] hand how many hands would go up any

[1:28:30] kitchel well maybe 15% of

[1:28:35] you and it's right there in the middle

[1:28:37] of old grenage it's a wonderful resource

[1:28:40] untouched open

[1:28:44] space thank you for the comment it it

[1:28:46] reminds me of a question that I think

[1:28:49] we're going to be looking at as we get

[1:28:50] into um

[1:28:52] the the master plan recommendations I

[1:28:54] think we're hearing a lot of over and

[1:28:56] over we we love the park the way it is

[1:28:58] we don't want it to we don't want to

[1:29:00] lose this resource we don't want to

[1:29:01] change it and we're going to probably

[1:29:03] start zeroing in on okay how do we best

[1:29:06] Steward what's there today and one of

[1:29:08] those questions that maybe is a little

[1:29:11] more nuanced is how best to showcase the

[1:29:15] site's history specifically like there's

[1:29:18] ruins where there's weeds growing over

[1:29:20] them do we clear those weeds away do we bring a formalized path to more of

[1:29:23] those ruins do we put educational

[1:29:25] signage on more of those do we put uh

[1:29:28] more of like commemorative plaqu on them

[1:29:30] do we leave them completely alone and

[1:29:32] have them as sort of features you

[1:29:34] discover that are overgrown that whether

[1:29:37] to clear weeds away gets into the

[1:29:39] invasive species management question too

[1:29:41] if there's a plant that ought not be in

[1:29:43] the park for the sake of the native

[1:29:46] ecosystem you're kind of clearing out

[1:29:48] the historic ruin while you're at it so

[1:29:50] they can be a little bit interrelated

[1:29:51] but

[1:29:52] finding an appropriate strategy for

[1:29:55] celebrating the fact that this site has

[1:29:57] such unique history and it has these

[1:29:59] physical ruins that can deteriorate they

[1:30:02] can become overgrown do we want to bring

[1:30:04] more attention to those and if so how

[1:30:07] that that's that's kind of the the level

[1:30:09] of detail we may find ourselves zeroing

[1:30:11] in on with that particular

[1:30:14] topic so this hand first

[1:30:20] yeah I mainly came here because of

[1:30:23] dogging I think see that

[1:30:26] CH dogs over there

[1:30:29] years um and it sounds like I'm in

[1:30:32] agreement with most here if you came

[1:30:35] there in the

[1:30:37] morning 75% of the cars

[1:30:40] par I mean yeah 7% they would have dogs

[1:30:45] only

[1:30:47] 25% but way it is used

[1:30:50] now somebody else just mentioned another

[1:30:53] thing that's what the or what not but

[1:30:57] when you come out of that

[1:31:00] car go left you can

[1:31:04] hard there's one big tree in the that

[1:31:07] there's an awful lot of bushes

[1:31:10] to I got to admit I went home one day

[1:31:14] and I almost felt whack I got

[1:31:20] Myers out

[1:31:24] there problems

[1:31:27] with I work in La was in this 31 years

[1:31:31] and I

[1:31:32] never

[1:31:35] there never there once

[1:31:42] remember they pick up after themselves

[1:31:44] 90%

[1:31:47] I my fo on the grass but that's rare

[1:31:51] really

[1:31:53] take I'm glad to see that most

[1:31:59] people thank

[1:32:01] [Applause]

[1:32:03] you the the the comment was further

[1:32:06] agreement that uh dog walking needs to

[1:32:10] remain uh un unsed with as is on the

[1:32:14] site it's an extremely valuable use and

[1:32:16] that there could be improvements made

[1:32:19] for the visibility of cars turning out

[1:32:21] of the or street parking lot because of

[1:32:23] vegetation blocking the view of oncoming

[1:32:26] cars and that uh in the uh gentleman's

[1:32:29] experience there has not been um issues

[1:32:31] of um kind of negative encounters

[1:32:33] between dogs and users of the

[1:32:36] park was there yeah go ahead yep it's

[1:32:40] you

[1:32:42] yep see a couple of walking friends that

[1:32:45] I don't know who they are but I've seen

[1:32:49] them I live on Montgomery Lane

[1:32:58] says you know it's completely different

[1:33:01] Five Point with apologies

[1:33:08] Gass and the well

[1:33:10] AC Wellness woodiness it is is what feel

[1:33:15] like breathing you know real

[1:33:20] air

[1:33:22] I've been working through through there

[1:33:24] about six days a week for 20 years I

[1:33:26] will say the uh the signage is issue I I

[1:33:29] had person rescued one little girl

[1:33:32] mother was did a run away i' I've

[1:33:35] periodically steered people back to

[1:33:38] where they think the might

[1:33:40] possibly so I agree with the point

[1:33:44] about this doesn't work on your

[1:33:47] phone so I would be in favor

[1:33:50] for

[1:33:52] with

[1:33:53] Arona I I do think um you know there so

[1:33:57] many pass like primary second some of

[1:34:00] them get kind of

[1:34:02] swamp and and I would have objection to

[1:34:06] making them pass withs like that I know

[1:34:11] this also the with this small area next

[1:34:14] to is also Cal s right which is owned by

[1:34:19] the aut but basically connected through

[1:34:23] the PO sanct all way through through

[1:34:26] everything else and what they done the

[1:34:28] PO they put you know kind of little

[1:34:31] bridges over the areas and that's very

[1:34:36] intermittent right I think one yeah

[1:34:50] the my final point

[1:34:53] is it's a shame that the the overlooks

[1:34:56] don't really allow you to see the lake

[1:34:59] most of the time there a lot of

[1:35:02] overgrowth Tre or whatever I don't

[1:35:04] whether it's native or not but it seems

[1:35:06] to me when you're in elev position you

[1:35:08] got the the ruins and everything the

[1:35:10] park nice to be able to look down and

[1:35:13] see the and my experience you really

[1:35:16] can't see it very well obsc most the

[1:35:19] time the elevation

[1:35:22] El I don't see why you would open that

[1:35:25] up final point you said something about

[1:35:29] we put in more

[1:35:31] access to notable sites I I personally

[1:35:35] would like to see that i'

[1:35:41] like thank

[1:35:43] [Applause]

[1:35:45] you um the the comments included uh

[1:35:49] reinforcement of that agreements that

[1:35:51] more physical way finding signage could

[1:35:53] be useful QR codes won't be practical

[1:35:56] due to reception here paths that get

[1:35:58] swampy could benefit from boardwalks and

[1:36:01] there's uh nearby examples where that's

[1:36:03] done well and that the overlooks are

[1:36:05] quite often overgrown with with the

[1:36:07] views blocked and um the uh gentleman

[1:36:11] feels uh formalized Pathways to the

[1:36:13] ruins might not be um the the most

[1:36:16] appropriate

[1:36:19] treatment go ahead

[1:36:22] my name's Bob Angelo born and raised

[1:36:24] here in GRE right across from p park

[1:36:27] spent a lot of time in there as a kid I

[1:36:31] didn't shoot any animals in

[1:36:33] there

[1:36:35] every a warm day your high skip school

[1:36:39] jump in the

[1:36:40] lake a lot of fun in there um I'm on the

[1:36:45] selectman's transportation task force

[1:36:48] and my primary focus is SA riding for

[1:36:52] young kids to try to get to school

[1:36:54] safely so um you I know I'm I'm

[1:36:58] certainly not advocating opening up the

[1:37:01] park for bike riding but there's a main

[1:37:04] uh main artery Trail there basically

[1:37:06] from the lake that goes up to the mam

[1:37:10] Road you know Montgomery Lane

[1:37:13] back and multipurpose Trail normally

[1:37:16] about 8 ft wide um there's uh different

[1:37:21] substrates not not advocating mam not

[1:37:24] baving not cutting down trees not moving

[1:37:26] anything um we we would love the task

[1:37:30] force would love to see some

[1:37:31] consideration to feasibility of if that

[1:37:35] one uh trail that links the lake to um

[1:37:40] the road there near the Botanical center

[1:37:42] could become a multi-purpose pass that

[1:37:45] shared uh so that kids could basically

[1:37:47] ride their bike to school to the new

[1:37:49] Central Middle School and credit b b

[1:37:52] kids are looking s in F Track is really

[1:37:54] bad think people would use the park if

[1:37:57] they could have family ride in there

[1:38:00] basically

[1:38:01] um yeah that's it there's there's

[1:38:04] different substrates that you know that

[1:38:06] drain that withstand weather um seen

[1:38:10] them around basically and uh we'

[1:38:13] appreciate just some consideration

[1:38:15] to make

[1:38:17] that

[1:38:19] schoolf in that area

[1:38:21] thank you thank

[1:38:23] [Applause]

[1:38:25] you okay then I'll summarize both

[1:38:28] comments in winter

[1:38:30] time oh that that route would be perfect

[1:38:33] for losing in wintertime so the the the

[1:38:36] comment was um could a uh suitable route

[1:38:41] be found on one of the main artery

[1:38:44] Trails through the park that would

[1:38:46] connect uh with a more of a paved

[1:38:49] multi-use trail treatment uh for

[1:38:51] children biking to school uh I I as I

[1:38:53] understood it kind of on a

[1:38:55] North sorry sorry sorry as a landscape

[1:38:58] architect when I think of compacted

[1:39:00] stone dust I think of that as a a type

[1:39:02] of pavement but not

[1:39:05] [Laughter]

[1:39:07] asphalt but more solid than Earth more

[1:39:10] solid than just the packed Earth trails

[1:39:13] that we have something kind of in

[1:39:14] between is what you may be envisioning I

[1:39:16] mean a multi-use trail can be paved with

[1:39:18] asphalt and it becomes more durable and

[1:39:20] I I want to add to that um is there a

[1:39:24] need for a handicap accessible Trail

[1:39:26] through here and would that double is

[1:39:28] that say that basically I mean I think

[1:39:30] the part of active transportation is

[1:39:34] access for all users and you know

[1:39:36] adaptive users uh with a safer you know

[1:39:40] with a safer raid basically or just

[1:39:42] safer substrate uh enjoy the part yeah

[1:39:47] well when we um maybe after we're

[1:39:50] finished together you could point out

[1:39:51] the route you had in mind that sounded

[1:39:53] fairly specific and we could talk about

[1:39:55] that a little

[1:39:58] further go ahead hi my name

[1:40:05] ISO and I use

[1:40:09] the I've also done a lot of

[1:40:12] Hing with and without

[1:40:17] dogs I would like

[1:40:19] to pose for

[1:40:22] consideration once

[1:40:24] you um introduce bikes trail

[1:40:27] system it can be difficult to

[1:40:30] control to

[1:40:32] use I have geered away from pking in my

[1:40:37] because tax of mountain bikers not just

[1:40:40] one or two and I'm a previous mountain

[1:40:43] biker I love it but tax event bikers

[1:40:46] come in from westest County because they

[1:40:49] found the park online

[1:40:52] and I'm there with a dog trying to

[1:40:54] prevent the dog from being run over by

[1:40:56] the bike and they don't you know go

[1:40:58] along and FL they go along and very

[1:41:01] fast um I would hate to see anything

[1:41:04] like that happen to this gorgeous you

[1:41:08] know Reserve

[1:41:11] that thank you

[1:41:13] [Applause]

[1:41:15] so the comment was a concern that once

[1:41:17] biking is introduced as a uh activity at

[1:41:21] a park and the park starts to

[1:41:23] accommodate that it can be discovered by

[1:41:25] mountain bikers who can overuse the park

[1:41:29] and make it less um usable for uh hikers

[1:41:34] and and other other uses and so to be

[1:41:36] cautious of

[1:41:41] that

[1:41:49] yes about five years

[1:41:53] ago

[1:41:55] off there several times and when I first

[1:42:00] back I live for a while in California

[1:42:04] which when I first back to it was many

[1:42:07] times in the park I was really kind of

[1:42:09] shocked that this particular town with

[1:42:11] the resources and the wealth and the

[1:42:14] intelligence that it has wasn't doing

[1:42:17] take care of the car from the

[1:42:19] perspective of the invasives

[1:42:23] that just

[1:42:26] like

[1:42:30] not I think

[1:42:32] this

[1:42:43] toon allocate more resources to it and a

[1:42:47] couple of people tonight people on the

[1:42:49] Chanel haveed the word

[1:42:51] terms of us taking care of the park I

[1:42:53] would like there to be ace to the par as

[1:42:56] there someone who really their

[1:42:59] responsibility to take care of the park

[1:43:02] Institute and implement the plan that we

[1:43:04] all come up with and make sure that some

[1:43:08] of the degradation that we're seeings

[1:43:11] and the habitat and all that isn't taken

[1:43:14] away and as much as possible I really

[1:43:16] love it something that we don't have a

[1:43:18] lot which is this

[1:43:21] State um so from that point well I

[1:43:25] definitely love that so many job owners

[1:43:28] use the it's so great to walk there and

[1:43:30] see everyone lots of people let their

[1:43:32] dogs off Le and perspective of a

[1:43:36] natural to maintain this as a natural

[1:43:40] that's it also turns away some people

[1:43:43] who don't like having for

[1:43:45] them and I agree that

[1:43:49] most every time I walk in there I see

[1:43:53] not I see the little B ofg left on the

[1:43:58] [Music]

[1:44:02] trail so um yeah that's kind of the main

[1:44:06] I really

[1:44:11] we

[1:44:13] and

[1:44:14] this so much more than other places to

[1:44:18] really take care of them and preserve

[1:44:19] them for

[1:44:23] children thank thank

[1:44:26] you the comment was um to uh

[1:44:30] continue aggressively tackling invasive

[1:44:35] vegetation um could there be a steward

[1:44:38] specifically for this park a a person

[1:44:40] designated who ensures invasive species

[1:44:43] are managed trails are maintained and

[1:44:45] then the perspective that um while

[1:44:48] walking dogs is a valuable use of the

[1:44:50] par Park letting dogs off leash can turn

[1:44:53] off people who aren't comfortable around

[1:44:55] dogs can um stress the environment and

[1:44:57] that dog waste uh being picked up needs

[1:45:00] to be um done more diligently so it may

[1:45:04] lead to um further infrastructure or or

[1:45:09] attention emphasis being brought to

[1:45:11] bring your dog here but do it properly

[1:45:19] yeah

[1:45:45] [Music]

[1:45:49] r

[1:45:51] know

[1:45:53] there um that I

[1:45:57] haveen are

[1:46:19] not um the other thing is I think bags

[1:46:27] that are around the

[1:46:37] par I don't see a lot

[1:46:48] of that was

[1:47:00] thank you uh the the comments were um in

[1:47:03] support of it was the perspective that

[1:47:06] offleash um time for dogs is is valuable

[1:47:09] and a space like this can provide that

[1:47:11] opportunity for for dogs who who who

[1:47:13] need that and um that it hasn't been an

[1:47:16] issue in in this person's experience and

[1:47:19] should be considered and that um dog

[1:47:22] waste the dog waste issue can be

[1:47:23] addressed by making cleanup easy for

[1:47:26] people by providing more more

[1:47:29] bins is this one

[1:47:49] first

[1:48:12] thats

[1:48:19] are

[1:48:34] and there are

[1:48:47] many are not near

[1:48:54] thank you U the comment was um the the

[1:48:56] other perspective that this person has

[1:49:00] had um bad encounters with dogs

[1:49:03] including being bitten here has been

[1:49:05] knocked over and that elderly people

[1:49:07] they know have been afraid to to come

[1:49:10] here because of the prospect of of dogs

[1:49:12] being off leash and and jumping on them

[1:49:14] and things like that

[1:49:17] and

[1:49:18] Y who I see next I think I think it was

[1:49:23] you yeah go ahead

[1:49:27] I lot of people love do but I think

[1:49:32] this understanding BR that maybe you can

[1:49:37] let your dog off I see it all the time

[1:49:41] some not only not a problem but

[1:49:45] occasionally dogs

[1:49:47] aggressive used to have this huge

[1:49:53] MGS around but not everybody is

[1:49:57] responsible seems I see dogs up the

[1:50:00] leash this part more of than any other

[1:50:02] part and I think maybe not close

[1:50:06] supervis understanding that probably

[1:50:10] inform trouble personally I have time

[1:50:14] but

[1:50:19] Pati I right

[1:50:32] there yeah thank you and and by the way

[1:50:36] I'm

[1:50:38] going um just to uh pause for a moment I

[1:50:41] think we've kind of formally scheduled

[1:50:43] ourselves between 6: to 8:00 P.M so

[1:50:45] we're getting close to the end of our

[1:50:46] time so the conversation can obviously

[1:50:50] to go on and on and on and I want I just

[1:50:51] want to make it known we're going to

[1:50:52] hang out longer and be available to

[1:50:56] speak kind of more on an informal basis

[1:50:58] because I'm sure there's still going to

[1:51:00] be additional questions and comments to

[1:51:01] discuss um so you can speak to any any

[1:51:04] of us on the project team at the end of

[1:51:07] this and we'll hang out over there near

[1:51:08] the maps U we we brought sticky notes

[1:51:11] you can write comments down and stick

[1:51:12] them right to the maps and there is the

[1:51:14] online survey which is on the town's

[1:51:16] website under the parks department page

[1:51:19] and we've gotten a lot of survey

[1:51:21] responses already and if you haven't

[1:51:23] taken it please tell your friends and

[1:51:25] family members and anyone who uses this

[1:51:27] park to to take it and that has the

[1:51:31] opportunity for open-ended responses as

[1:51:33] well if you have additional comments

[1:51:35] that don't fit the form of all of the

[1:51:37] questions on there so I just wanted to

[1:51:38] make sure that that was clear as since

[1:51:40] we'll take a couple more questions here

[1:51:41] but we're we're going to begin to wrap

[1:51:42] up after maybe two or three more

[1:51:46] questions I think I think I saw your

[1:51:49] hand longer

[1:51:51] ago I'm

[1:51:57] justce and I just want appreciative

[1:52:03] this coms

[1:52:07] but take

[1:52:10] questions love your

[1:52:12] name far as ma um I just wanted to

[1:52:16] celebrate the work of Darren and have

[1:52:20] created a

[1:52:22] map um it is posted on our website so

[1:52:27] download

[1:52:29] it

[1:52:33] [Music]

[1:52:38] fish it was they walked it all the way

[1:52:41] up from um with the library

[1:52:47] went and um

[1:52:50] conion May more

[1:52:54] than um

[1:53:02] [Music]

[1:53:06] I there he may get a tough winter this

[1:53:09] season so um yeah I am a

[1:53:18] lifelong um

[1:53:20] and please come up me with any other

[1:53:24] ideas

[1:53:32] down thank

[1:53:35] you and I think the dog issue is

[1:53:46] complicated round

[1:53:48] Applause

[1:53:49] [Applause]

[1:53:55] who was pregnant no idea at the time and

[1:53:57] during the very rainy couple of days

[1:54:00] like every single gear

[1:54:02] pth the

[1:54:04] G um but one thing I did want to mention

[1:54:07] about the dogs it is actually law to

[1:54:11] have your dog so that's why those are

[1:54:15] very concerned about the um survey

[1:54:18] question we spent a lot time talking

[1:54:20] about how to phrase that question and I

[1:54:23] think this team did a really good job of

[1:54:25] handling

[1:54:28] it so I think be a group that together

[1:54:33] and talk about it to invol

[1:54:37] he larger gr so I think it is

[1:54:40] complicated and I know you're raising

[1:54:42] your hand I know I just want to know how

[1:54:45] do you get hold of board

[1:54:47] of I'm not on the board of

[1:55:18] I we

[1:55:21] take

[1:55:25] here yeah yeah yeah probably start

[1:55:27] wrapping it up

[1:55:44] iail we can send it I know we have Sur

[1:55:47] but I

[1:55:47] want part of we can kind of separate

[1:55:51] that out and kind of have that as a

[1:55:52] comment in the meeting speak for that

[1:55:57] receive yeah yeah you're gonna respond

[1:55:59] to those people who typed additional

[1:56:00] comments with the email address I'll

[1:56:03] just ask them to

[1:56:08] email

[1:56:11] conly com the meeting itself

[1:56:15] okay all

[1:56:16] right okay um I'll take I'm going to

[1:56:20] sorry I'm

[1:56:22] gonna there's two people that we have

[1:56:24] not heard from at all yet that's a good

[1:56:25] point we have not heard from the two of

[1:56:26] you your two comments or questions will

[1:56:29] be the final group wide ones and then we

[1:56:33] are going to disperse and talk more

[1:56:34] organically no pressure

[1:56:37] yeah oh yeah yeah sorry Dan other Dan

[1:56:40] has one comment first yes I I do want to

[1:56:43] mention that I do know that we have a

[1:56:44] couple of people that have raised their

[1:56:46] hands um on the online Zoom option like

[1:56:49] I said we are running out of time here

[1:56:51] we do have other stuff on the agenda and

[1:56:53] we want to take in time to consideration

[1:56:55] with our um Consultants here so if you

[1:56:57] guys do have any additional comments

[1:57:00] that are related to this meeting please

[1:57:02] send them to parks and trees at

[1:57:04] Greenwich

[1:57:05] c.gov with the pomerance tuckman public

[1:57:08] meeting as the um as the headline for

[1:57:11] that and we will forward those on to the

[1:57:14] consultant GZA to get those recorded

[1:57:16] within the meeting um I do know we have

[1:57:19] as Dan reiterate we do have the survey

[1:57:21] online TI for additional feedback but we

[1:57:23] do want to make sure that I mean you

[1:57:24] took the time out here to uh listen to

[1:57:26] this so we want to have your comments on

[1:57:28] record for this particular meeting so I

[1:57:30] apologize for not getting to your

[1:57:32] comments to those of you on Zoom or for

[1:57:34] those in the audience but feel free to

[1:57:36] um email us at that address and we will

[1:57:38] get that incorporated into the comments

[1:57:40] of this meeting all right thank

[1:57:42] you okay yes go ahead people have

[1:57:45] mentioned

[1:57:46] stewardship and who would be stewards of

[1:57:49] this and might even take a case from The

[1:57:52] Playbook of the land trust who has

[1:57:54] multiple lands all over place and has a

[1:57:57] steward in a steward group for each

[1:57:59] location so it's like a friends group

[1:58:01] and so we could have the friends under

[1:58:04] the direction of N St being the steward

[1:58:08] it would work perfectly we've got it at

[1:58:11] gr point point it's everything from

[1:58:14] pulling down the invasive V to worrying

[1:58:17] about making being on making the

[1:58:20] observations and getting things

[1:58:22] corrected and keeping the

[1:58:24] place thank you uh yeah the comment was

[1:58:27] uh in response to who would be the

[1:58:29] steward of a property like this you have

[1:58:31] examples such as the Greenwich Land

[1:58:33] Trust which has a steward for each of

[1:58:35] its locations and that could be where uh

[1:58:38] the role of the the friends of pomerance

[1:58:40] and tuckman could step in and do

[1:58:43] something similar to Steward this

[1:58:45] park and and the final the final comment

[1:58:49] first of all I want to thank you for

[1:58:51] having this public for educational

[1:58:54] valuable

[1:58:56] lot

[1:58:58] um I and my dog are in that Park every

[1:59:02] day my dog is there at least

[1:59:05] twice and constantly amazed that 10et

[1:59:09] after I walk into the park I he cars

[1:59:13] barely here ples it's the G so I

[1:59:16] encourage you to try keep it as much

[1:59:19] like it is today in 15

[1:59:24] years someone mentioned bags in the park

[1:59:28] um and dogs that are disbehaving in the

[1:59:31] park um I see a lot of other dog owners

[1:59:34] here the dogs that are the problems the

[1:59:37] people that don't pick up bags think are

[1:59:39] the outliers I urge you not to make

[1:59:42] decisions based on the vast minority of

[1:59:46] people bags by the side of Trail I can

[1:59:49] tell you Le once every week and a half I

[1:59:52] walk out of the park five bed I away it

[1:59:57] my mind that people will pick up Poe the

[2:00:00] bag and leave it next to the trail for

[2:00:04] someone your question I'm one of those

[2:00:09] elves just to show that it's not unique

[2:00:12] to the park when I walk to the park from

[2:00:14] my house of

[2:00:16] Valleywood once a month I see a PO bag

[2:00:18] on some lawn on the street so it's not

[2:00:21] unique to the par people do this is what

[2:00:24] people do and they must have people pick

[2:00:26] up for them at home that let them feel

[2:00:29] this is way the world supposed to work

[2:00:31] um I urge you also to keep B off trails

[2:00:36] I don't I don't want to talk about kids

[2:00:39] going to school on bikes I went to

[2:00:41] school on

[2:00:42] bike of high school and it's but I don't

[2:00:48] go to Miami part because I've been

[2:00:51] scared by bikes sing around the turn um

[2:00:55] f than I do I just don't go there

[2:01:00] besides not wondering my dog's going to

[2:01:02] be bik I don't want to be so if you

[2:01:06] could limit if you have bike access

[2:01:09] these are limited to a

[2:01:18] very

[2:01:19] that's I thank you so that that that'll

[2:01:22] be our final official comment which I'll

[2:01:24] recap which is reiterated that dog

[2:01:27] walking is a very valuable use of the

[2:01:29] park it's a quiet Gem and should be kept

[2:01:31] that way um to not make decisions based

[2:01:34] on uh the the sort of problem dogs or

[2:01:38] dog owners who are likely the outliers

[2:01:40] and decisions not to be made solely on

[2:01:43] that um and that spikes should be kept

[2:01:46] off the trails uh other nearby parks

[2:01:48] like the mananas Greenway mananas Park

[2:01:51] are too unsafe due to mountain biking

[2:01:54] and to take that into consideration so

[2:01:57] thank you and um so thank you all for your comments for for listening to

[2:02:02] all of the information we had to share

[2:02:04] and then for engaging in this discussion

[2:02:06] I I think everyone's in agreement that

[2:02:08] it's it's a really valuable well-loved

[2:02:10] space you're really lucky to have it in

[2:02:13] town and I think we can all agree we

[2:02:16] want to find the way to uh move forward

[2:02:19] with uh keeping it the way it is uh and

[2:02:23] since change is inevitable in in the

[2:02:25] world just find ways to Steward this

[2:02:27] site appropriately so it can continue to offer what what people love about it

[2:02:32] with just the improvements that are

[2:02:34] necessary to to continue to enable those

[2:02:37] things um so like I said our our next

[2:02:40] steps are we're going to start uh

[2:02:42] working internally drafting

[2:02:44] recommendations based on all of our

[2:02:46] analysis we've been doing and the

[2:02:47] feedback we're hearing the the public survey that's online which once

[2:02:50] again is on the parks department website

[2:02:53] on on the town of greenwich's website um

[2:02:56] is going to be open until November 17th

[2:02:58] so so please participate in that if you

[2:03:00] have not already and spread the word

[2:03:01] about it and uh we're going to be uh

[2:03:06] capturing the results of those uh of the

[2:03:09] survey responses and and formulating

[2:03:12] recommendations for the master plan um

[2:03:15] based on on what we Insight we glean

[2:03:17] from that survey as well

[2:03:19] um and the the next meeting which hasn't

[2:03:23] been planned yet will be for us to share

[2:03:26] preliminary initial thinking about

[2:03:28] master plan recommendations to hear some

[2:03:30] further feedback and discussion on those

[2:03:32] things I I don't think that we'll be at

[2:03:34] the stage where we share a draft master

[2:03:36] plan publicly or anything like that I

[2:03:38] think it's going to be kind of in the

[2:03:39] midst of that process we'll share kind

[2:03:40] of our initial thoughts publicly at a

[2:03:43] forum um and then from there we'll wrap

[2:03:45] up the master plan so that that that'll

[2:03:48] be in the the coming months and and

[2:03:50] you'll hear about that when that meeting

[2:03:51] is planned so we'll stick around for for

[2:03:54] a while longer and please uh stay if you

[2:03:56] want and um you can come talk to any of

[2:03:58] us and we'll be here for a little while

[2:04:01] thank

[2:04:01] you thank you everybody yeah we'll be

[2:04:05] around so if you wanna if you want to

[2:04:07] wait and have conversations I'll I'll be

[2:04:08] here for a little bit myself and thank

[2:04:10] you GZA team and and park

[2:04:14] sta it's all

[2:04:17] right

[2:04:24] so

[2:04:33] I

Pomerance and Tuchman Master Plan Public Meeting #1, October 30, 2023

Transcript