[0:01] Caldwell Valley Borough Council is now in session. All rise for the pledge.

[0:06] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic

[0:12] for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice

[0:18] for all.

[0:23] Roll call, Gail.

[0:26] Mr. Carr?

[0:29] Mm-hmm.

[0:29] Mr. White?

[0:30] Here.

[0:31] Dr. Schubring?

[0:33] Here.

[0:35] Mr. Gilbert?

[0:36] Present.

[0:37] Mr. Harris?

[0:38] Here.

[0:39] Mr. Lillard?

[0:40] Here.

[0:41] Matthews?

[0:41] Here.

[0:42] Kowalski?

[0:43] Here.

[0:44] Hennessins?

[0:45] Here.

[0:45] Ms. Harrison?

[0:47] Here.

[0:51] Okay, the first item of business is approval of minutes of August 11th,

[0:56] 2026, our regular meeting. Do I have a motion to approve?

[1:01] Motion to approve.

[1:02] I'll second.

[1:03] We have a motion and a second. Any discussion?

[1:08] Hearing none, all in favor say aye.

[1:11] Aye.

[1:12] Aye.

[1:14] Next up, approval of minutes for the special meeting of August 25,

[1:19] 2026.

[1:22] Do we have a motion to approve?

[1:23] Motion to approve.

[1:24] I'll second.

[1:26] We have a motion and a second. Any discussion?

[1:30] Hearing none, all in favor say aye.

[1:32] Aye.

[1:33] Aye.

[1:35] Opposed? Motion out of the scale.

[1:40] Okay.

[1:40] We'll now go into the public hearing on the proposed saldo ordinance

[1:47] that will, if adopted by the council,

[1:52] modify regulations pertaining to subdivision and land development in Chapter 22 of

[1:58] the Code of Ordinances and set forth an effective date.

[2:04] So, the first item will be for an overview of the proposed amendment.

[2:09] Dave?

[2:17] Hi. I don't sound prepared, do I? This will be a very brief overview.

[2:22] It's a complete rewrite of Chapter 22, which regulates all of the proposed land

[2:28] development plans that may get submitted to the borough.

[2:35] The planning commission has been working on this collaboratively with one another

[2:40] for,

[2:47] I don't want to say years, but I think it might be multiple years now.

[2:52] But they have worked on it tirelessly and,

[2:58] as I said, the Subdivision Land Development Ordinance is meant

[3:03] to govern the division and development of

[3:09] future parcels in your municipality.

[3:14] A lot of what you have in

[3:17] Chapter 22 is technical in nature.

[3:21] So a lot of it was helped written by engineer for the borough and

[3:28] reviewed, of course, by

[3:31] solicitor as well. If there are specific questions or anything that might come up,

[3:37] glad to do my best to answer them. But

[3:41] Chapter 22 is relatively straightforward.

[3:46] You go to most municipalities in Pennsylvania, they look quite the same.

[3:49] They're governed by the same Pennsylvania Municipalities Planning Code, so

[3:55] they're laid out the same and have a lot of the same details.

[3:59] So any questions, I'll do my best

[4:04] to

[4:08] answer.

[4:09] Dave, in definitions,

[4:12] I believe it says

[4:15] adverse-

[4:17] What page are you on?

[4:18] I'm getting there. Hold on.

[4:19] All right. Sorry.

[4:36] I'm sorry, I thought I had this bookmarked.

[4:38] It's 84, Cody.

[4:40] 84?

[4:40] I think. You said definitions, right?

[4:45] Adverse conditions. That would be page-

[4:47] Five

[4:49] ... five.

[4:49] Definitions.

[4:54] Is that what you're talking about, number three, adverse conditions?

[4:58] Says, "Any condition that limits, restricts, or otherwise inhibits the use,

[5:03] enjoyment, or functionality of a particular facility, track, or feature."

[5:08] Right.

[5:11] Yeah. This is it. Yes.

[5:15] So

[5:17] does this leave open

[5:20] the possibility of someone having a tract of land and a tract of land behind it

[5:25] owned by another person that wants to build a house, and they say that creates an

[5:29] adverse condition because it's taking my enjoyment from sitting on my deck and

[5:33] enjoying the nature in the

[5:39] property behind me?

[5:41] That's a good question. I was mostly aware that term is actually used in saldo.

[5:46] I can't off the cuff recall. My first instinct was to look at Article VIII,

[5:51] Modifications. Some of you may be familiar with variances in the zoning

[5:57] context. There is something similar if a developer comes in front of you with a

[6:00] land development plan, and

[6:05] maybe it's a steep slope provision they can't meet or some other technical

[6:09] requirement that they cannot meet.

[6:10] They'll often seek a modification or a waiver pursuant to those provisions, and

[6:14] that's page 101 for anybody interested.

[6:18] And those provisions are largely taken right out of the MPC.

[6:21] And adverse condition isn't the right term there. It's more hardship.

[6:26] So I was looking to see if adverse condition was used there, and it's not, which is

[6:30] fine because the standard there is that if literal enforcement will exact undue

[6:35] hardship because of peculiar conditions pertaining to the land, provided that such

[6:39] modification will not be contrary to the public interest, the purpose and the end

[6:43] of the ordinance is observed, then you're able to grant a modification.

[6:47] I'm going to search the document.

[6:50] Yeah. If anybody has it up electronically, you can Control + F for it.

[6:58] Yeah, that was just my first thought when I read that.

[6:59] I was like, "Ugh, I don't like how broad it is because when you say any enjoyment

[7:05] to the property, now somebody can say, 'Well, that's an adverse condition by our

[7:08] own definition.'"

[7:10] One place it's coming up is in the definitions.

[7:12] But yeah, and again,

[7:14] finding where it's used is the important component here because the definition has

[7:19] to be used somewhere. So the definition in and of itself isn't necessarily going to

[7:23] grant anything. The text itself has to come up. I'm trying to pull it up as well.

[7:28] It looks like it's only that.

[7:37] It's just in one of one, where it found adverse conditions, which is in definition

[7:42] when I searched the document.

[7:45] Right. Try... So you searched adverse conditions?

[7:48] Adverse condition. Condition, not condition.

[7:51] Maybe take the S off.

[7:52] I took the S off.

[7:53] Search adverse.

[7:55] What is it?

[7:56] Just the word adverse.

[7:56] Oh, that's a good idea. Thank you.

[7:59] There are 10 spots.

[8:03] And in the definition?

[8:07] Page 15, number 6. Actually, page 16.

[8:11] The top of page 16, but it starts on page 15, number 6.

[8:21] Yeah. So that's a whole different concept.

[8:22] That language there is, again, pulled right out of the MPC, and that's talking

[8:27] about when somebody comes in and they get a preliminary plan approval for a land

[8:30] development plan. You can't change your ordinance and then pull the rug out from

[8:35] underneath them. They have a five-year period.

[8:37] Page 51, number 7, has that word adversely in it.

[8:51] Oh.

[8:52] So that's looking at

[8:55] water

[8:58] supply system studies.

[9:01] I doubt-

[9:02] Well, the term was adverse conditions

[9:04] ... the term is adverse.

[9:04] It said adversity. It said adversity.

[9:06] Yeah

[9:10] On page 55, 4121.

[9:18] And that's talking about transportation systems.

[9:24] Adverse impacts on the transportation system. So that's not an adverse condition.

[9:28] Then we have page 71,

[9:32] 501C. That's street construction.

[9:46] Want me to give you the next one?

[9:47] I didn't find that one.

[9:48] Oh, hold on, let me go back up.

[9:51] 501C?

[9:52] 501C, page 71. 501C. It's B, 501C2B.

[9:58] Adverse environmental condition. Okay.

[10:01] So that doesn't- That's still something different. Mm-hmm.

[10:04] Then we have 80, page 88, number four, site location.

[10:10] And that's more developmental from swamps.

[10:17] And then the other one is adverse weather. No, definitely not that.

[10:21] No, it doesn't seem to be-

[10:23] From adverse influence, so that doesn't meet the- Yeah.

[10:28] So-

[10:29] And the last one

[10:29] ... take the definition from it, I mean, that...

[10:35] We're defining what an adverse condition is.

[10:37] That would make the argument that we're getting an avenue to somebody to argue that

[10:43] it is one.

[10:46] Or am I wrong? I certainly subscribe to the principle that you

[10:51] don't need to, and probably shouldn't define terms that don't exist in the

[10:55] document. I don't know that somebody would be able to look at that and say, "I can

[10:59] get out of doing this, that, or the other just because there's a definition." I

[11:04] don't know- But- ... if I'm specifically concerned with somebody getting out of it.

[11:08] I'm concerned with somebody saying, "Hey, I don't want a house built behind mine,

[11:13] so I'm going to quote the definition in our ordinance and say, 'You're creating

[11:17] this that you have defined.'" That wouldn't govern that.

[11:20] In your example, though, this ordinance wouldn't govern that in any way, shape, or

[11:25] form.

[11:27] Because these are rights to the individual landowners, not someone who lives next

[11:33] to a piece of land that would be developed.

[11:39] Yeah. These govern the specific plans.

[11:41] But I hear what you're saying, and

[11:44] for the sake of this as a public hearing, and we've already advertised this, you're

[11:50] going to be keeping track of when you think that a change would exceed the- No,

[11:56] that, I mean- ... the minimum ... the general rule with that concept is if you're

[11:59] making a substantive change as opposed to a procedural or formatting change.

[12:05] So if you took the table of contents and you said, "Well, we just want...

[12:09] Let's flip Article 7 and Article 8," but none of the content's actually changing.

[12:13] I've never believed, and I don't believe that that requires re-advertising.

[12:16] Anything substantive, though, like adding a definition, maybe removing a

[12:19] definition, changing terms.

[12:23] It at least gives... Candidly, I don't think removing a definition that, or a term

[12:29] that doesn't actually appear in the ordinance would really necessitate

[12:33] re-advertising it. But, I could go either way on it because again, if you're

[12:39] not going to use a term, there's no sense in defining it.

[12:42] But I also don't think that there's any potential harm from somebody hanging their

[12:46] hat on a term that isn't used anywhere, right?

[12:50] They would say, "Oh, I have an adverse condition, so I want to do what exactly?"

[12:55] Because the ordinance doesn't say, "Well, if there's an adverse condition, you

[12:58] don't have to do this."

[13:02] So I

[13:04] tend to think you could remove it without the need to re-advertise, but I also

[13:09] think there probably isn't an outright need to remove it because it's sort of

[13:13] inconsequential. Very well. And maybe we could follow up with the folks at county

[13:18] to see if there's a reason it's in there. Other municipalities utilize it.

[13:23] Again, my first instinct when I saw that was that maybe they

[13:26] incorporated that into Article 8 modification stuff.

[13:29] But it's not in there, and it, again, really shouldn't be in there because the

[13:34] standard under the MPC to be able to get the modification or a waiver from having

[13:38] to do something, which I think is what your main concern is, that standard is right

[13:43] out of the MPC and is correct. And so it's undue hardship because of peculiar

[13:48] conditions pertaining to the land.

[13:50] I'll look up the word "conditions" too, just in case.

[13:58] Oh, no, we don't want to look at that. That's 154 hits.

[14:04] Okay with that.

[14:08] Okay. Anybody got another one?

[14:13] I got one. Page 33,

[14:18] I.

[14:22] What does that mean?

[14:30] Talks about

[14:33] boulevard-style entrance which would consist of two separate streets having a width

[14:39] of not less than 10 feet within a right of way of not less than 70

[14:45] feet in width.

[14:50] How many lanes? And how big is the median?

[14:55] What does this really mean?

[14:58] 70 feet with 20 of it being roadway,

[15:03] or maybe more than 20.

[15:04] Is that how big your median can be?

[15:11] I

[15:12] think what it's saying is that each...

[15:14] A boulevard-style entrance, meaning there's a median.

[15:17] There's two connected roads, we'll say, coming out of the single

[15:22] access road inside the development, and the entire right of way is going to be 70

[15:28] feet. And each of those two streets must be a width of at least 10 feet.

[15:35] About the 70 from one side all the way over to the other side.

[15:38] The right of way. For the right of way.

[15:40] You could have like

[15:43] 20 feet of median, 12 feet of each road, and then each

[15:49] cartway, we'll say, and then that would leave you

[15:53] what? 18 on each side for right of way that's not being used.

[15:56] But

[15:58] I think it's basically saying the minimum cartway size, there's got to be two

[16:02] separate, two completely separated roads in and out, and each of those

[16:08] cartways has to be at least 10 feet wide.

[16:11] And

[16:13] the minimum right of way for the entire thing, the entire entrance has to be at

[16:18] least 70.

[16:19] So it would allow for widening the right of way on both sides

[16:25] later.

[16:25] In general, this provision, I see this provision a lot.

[16:28] As Dave pointed out, much of this document is kind of boilerplate, and most

[16:33] municipalities aren't reinventing the wheel when it comes to land development and

[16:36] whatnot. The reason that exists is if you...

[16:39] Most of the time you,

[16:42] to tell it short, oftentimes you would want to have more than one point of ingress

[16:45] and egress into a residential development.

[16:47] The flip side, though, is sometimes somebody's building, let's say like the corner,

[16:52] and they've put a bunch of houses there, and there's a point of access on each of

[16:55] the adjoining main streets, we'll say larger streets.

[16:59] People then might use the neighborhood as like a shortcut to get around an

[17:03] intersection or something. So sometimes you'll be okay with a single access

[17:09] into a development, provided they give you that boulevard entrance, so that if

[17:12] there's a major accident or something, if somebody's pulling out, everybody's not

[17:16] trapped in there, for lack of a better phrase.

[17:19] There's a much wider entrance to the development, so the firetrucks can get in and

[17:23] out, ambulances can get in and out.

[17:25] Versus if you just have a development of 80 homes or something and there's just one

[17:30] street in, there's a major wreck right at the opening, then you kind of got like a

[17:35] health and safety concern that people can't get in and out.

[17:39] But requiring the less than 70 basically gives you plenty of room to work with for

[17:44] firetrucks. That's generally what I've seen in other communities.

[17:49] Okay. Page 63.

[17:52] Number 19.

[17:53] Auxiliary turn lane analysis.

[18:02] I'm interested in essentially the second to last

[18:08] sentence "Storage length requirements for right turn lanes will be

[18:15] 200 feet plus a 100-foot taper if a full-width turn lane is

[18:21] warranted, or 200 feet plus a 100-foot taper if the turn right taper

[18:27] is warranted."

[18:31] What does that mean?

[18:34] It doesn't exactly repeat itself, but it kind of sounds like it's repeating itself.

[18:46] Yeah. Let's see if

[18:49] we have definitions for right turn lane versus full-width turn lane.

[19:01] Because frankly, I don't have a great answer for you off the cuff, and I will

[19:06] do the classic lawyerly cop-out and say I'm not a traffic engineer, so maybe I

[19:09] don't understand what some of that terminology means.

[19:12] Well, don't feel alone. Neither am I.

[19:15] I think it's trying to distinguish between different...

[19:23] Well, I think maybe

[19:25] it's not actually distinguishing anything, I guess, if you look at the distances,

[19:29] because that's kind of the main point I think you were perhaps raising, is that

[19:33] whatever the difference between a right turn lane versus a full-width turn

[19:39] lane is, why distinguish them if the requirement is the same,

[19:45] 200 feet plus a 100-foot taper? I assume the 100-foot taper to mean the

[19:51] distance by which the lane

[19:53] slowly shrinks.

[19:55] But again, if they're the same, then

[19:59] there's not really a difference. There's no distinction.

[20:01] Just saying, I guess, any turn lane of any kind has to store, storage meaning how

[20:07] many vehicles can you store in that length.

[20:10] You've got to have 200 feet of the lane and 100 feet

[20:15] of-

[20:16] Turning into the turn lane

[20:17] ... of the lane, yeah, tapering down to nothing,

[20:22] or opening up coming in. But-

[20:25] Ultimately, the last sentence of that paragraph gives the borough the opportunity

[20:30] to critique whatever method is used to come up with whatever the answers are.

[20:35] These are things that would be done by developers and engineers, of course.

[20:38] So they would have to do some sort of evaluation of it and give what they

[20:44] call warrants or the numbers behind the decisions that they want, and then the

[20:48] borough and borough's engineer would have to approve that they've done it

[20:52] correctly. So I don't know the answer to your question either,

[20:59] but I think that last sentence is kind of a catchall to...

[21:06] I don't know. It may not have been. It definitely, something about it, and I've

[21:11] read a lot of these books, and I'm having trouble understanding the difference

[21:15] myself.

[21:18] I've read this one 100 times, so.

[21:23] Well, and more often than not, or almost, I guess, always,

[21:28] any of the language that we're looking at on page 63 or 62, 61,

[21:34] 60, 59, that is all information that if you're ever dealing with a development that

[21:39] triggers the need for a traffic impact study, an overwhelming majority of your

[21:45] analysis or discretion or decision-making is going to rely on your traffic

[21:50] engineer. So the developer's going to come in with a traffic engineer who puts

[21:53] forward a study that says, "We did a study, and there's going to be this many peak

[21:58] hour trips generated," and your engineer would review that and determine whether

[22:04] they agree, whether there's problems with the study.

[22:07] And

[22:09] looking at that last sentence, I think if there's a methodology problem, in other

[22:14] words, your engineer were to say, "Well, I think the way that you did this study

[22:17] doesn't make any sense because you relied on this or that, or didn't account

[22:20] for..." That's how I see these things playing out so often in municipalities where

[22:25] there's a lot of development that triggers traffic impact studies, is that

[22:28] generally speaking, I don't get involved in it for the most part because it's just

[22:31] the engineers talking to each other. And they have very standardized...

[22:36] The methodology by which they do these studies

[22:40] is very standardized, and people often complain when they see these studies because

[22:44] they say, "Well, I live right there, and I know there's way more traffic than

[22:47] that." And the traffic engineers basically say, "I don't have a lot of

[22:53] discretion." I'm trying to find the name of the

[22:58] ITE is the acronym. There's a

[23:04] state-mandated manual, so to speak, that just dictates how they do these

[23:10] studies. There's not a whole lot of discretion.

[23:23] So if that's the question-

[23:25] This is the highly technical part that I mentioned earlier.

[23:29] So it doesn't make sense to me, but I also am not a traffic engineer.

[23:33] So-

[23:34] But the bottom line is that they're going to put in a tapered

[23:40] line, which would allow for a right-hand turn by having you move into the tapered

[23:46] line.

[23:49] And it just says that twice.

[23:51] Yeah, I think-

[23:51] With a little different organization of the words

[23:53] ... whatever the distinction between a right turn lane or a full-width turn lane

[23:58] is, I think for purposes of that section anyway, those terms might mean something

[24:02] somewhere else, but

[24:04] the distinction doesn't matter because the rule says the length of that turn

[24:10] lane has to be 200 feet. You've got to have a 100-foot...

[24:15] And then the last sentence is basically saying, "We get to determine

[24:20] in the first instance, that provision only becomes

[24:25] relevant if there's a study done and it warrants a turn

[24:31] lane. We, the borough, get to determine whether your study was done appropriately

[24:36] at initial determination." That's what that last sentence-

[24:38] Ultimately, even if we changed it, it means the same thing now that it means later,

[24:43] so what?

[24:45] You get what I'm saying? So I'd say-

[24:50] If we were to amend the sentence as far as-

[24:53] Yeah

[24:53] ... that kind of thought with it, you could say that's-

[24:55] I think we should leave it the way it is, mainly because-

[24:59] I personally wouldn't change it. I wouldn't change it because this stuff has been

[25:04] reviewed by the engineer. You made the reference to the traffic study issues,

[25:10] the ITE, which I didn't know this, Gale looked it up.

[25:13] That's the Institute of Transportation Engineers.

[25:16] So this is a highly detailed part of the ordinance.

[25:21] One that I think maybe one time in my life I've been involved where there was a

[25:26] development with a traffic study. It's not something that's real common, so.

[25:32] Yeah.

[25:32] I would say leave it the way it is.

[25:36] Somebody with more knowledge about it created this sentence and-

[25:39] I'll kind of look at it the same way we looked at the first item that we talked

[25:42] about. I don't think it harms you by leaving it in there because I think it's sort

[25:46] of meaningless.

[25:48] Right.

[25:49] And while I don't think it's really much of a change because it doesn't mean

[25:51] anything, taking it out, I guess, gives somebody the argument if we were to enact

[25:54] tonight that, well, that's a substantive change. You should've re-advertised it.

[25:58] Which again, who is really aggrieved because you took out a clause of a

[26:04] sentence that I think is pretty clearly duplicative, it's not actually

[26:08] saying anything. The main takeaway there is

[26:13] if this traffic impact study identifies that a auxiliary

[26:19] turn lane is warranted for this development, it's going to be 200 feet in length

[26:24] with 100-foot taper, period. Regardless of whether we're calling it a right turn

[26:28] lane or a full-width turn lane.

[26:32] Okay. Page 73, at the top of the page,

[26:38] number five.

[26:41] Exhibit three.

[26:45] Don't know that there are any exhibits for this document.

[26:58] There aren't.

[27:01] So we can remove that, and that would not be substantive.

[27:07] Yeah. I'm okay with that because if it doesn't exist, there's no exhibit three.

[27:12] You're not changing.

[27:15] You're not creating a requirement or adding a requirement.

[27:19] You're, again, deleting words that

[27:22] convey no meaning

[27:25] Does

[27:27] the current SATO, or does the borough have a

[27:33] depressed curb detail

[27:37] exhibit currently?

[27:39] That would be my only question, is if that is a detail that we would want to put in

[27:42] there so that if you had a developer come in, you'd be able to say, "Here's our

[27:47] statute, our detail that shows how you do a depressed curb." But we already don't

[27:52] have that, and there's nothing attached to this document.

[27:56] I don't see any problem.

[27:57] In the rest of the paragraph, it already

[28:01] laid out what the-

[28:02] What the

[28:04] requirement is

[28:05] ... what the requirement is, and then it says, "In general," which doesn't mean

[28:09] it's in general. It would just be a suggestion at that point.

[28:13] So I have already marked it to delete the sentence, the entire last sentence where

[28:17] it starts, "In general."

[28:20] Okay?

[28:22] So you're going the whole sentence?

[28:24] I am. Because we don't have a depressed curb detail.

[28:29] We don't have an exhibit three, but we don't have the detail either, where we would

[28:33] have the exhibit if we did.

[28:39] I think it's an unnecessary level of detail.

[28:47] Okay.

[28:50] Now the

[28:54] 85, 601B,

[28:59] mobile home permit. The following procedures will apply solely for the proposed

[29:05] placement of a mobile home on a single parcel,

[29:11] separately deeded or within a mobile home park.

[29:28] 601B, number two, that's the first sentence.

[29:33] What's the question?

[29:35] Well,

[29:38] we're not allowing

[29:42] trailers on single lots. But here, this document would allow in,

[29:49] and I need to qualify it. It's only in those

[29:55] limited number of areas where there's large acreage and it could be built out,

[30:02] and this would allow single acre lots within those

[30:07] rare items or areas to have a trailer

[30:13] on the lot.

[30:15] That's the way I read it.

[30:16] Yeah, I would like to put Michael on the spot, but I won't, because we had a very

[30:22] similar conversation at the planning commission meeting about this, and it's

[30:25] important to remember that

[30:28] regardless of the question at hand, a single family home

[30:33] is defined by the federal government as including a mobile home, if they do

[30:39] certain things. So where you can place a single family

[30:45] mobile home will be governed by the zoning ordinance, not by Chapter 22.

[30:50] So this isn't talking about where you can site them.

[30:55] But it does open the door for allowing them.

[30:59] Not if our ordinance-

[31:00] Because it's

[31:02] not zoned for it, you can't put it there.

[31:04] Just like you can't put a Walmart up there.

[31:06] But the reality is, and we are going to have this conversation at a later date,

[31:10] because it's one of the topics that you had asked the planning commission to look

[31:14] at as it relates to zoning.

[31:16] Mm-hmm.

[31:17] And

[31:18] it's a really long conversation, to be honest with you.

[31:22] But there's a lot to it in terms of whether or not you can regulate where a mobile

[31:27] home is placed really anywhere in the borough, because the federal government has

[31:32] determined that that meets the definition of a single family dwelling.

[31:37] But we do intend to talk way more about that topic at a later date.

[31:42] In this instance, though, it's just talking about the design requirements when

[31:48] they're allowed to be placed via the zoning ordinance.

[31:52] And in that same section, a little bit lower, 2B, or subsection B at the bottom of

[31:57] the page is also-

[31:58] Right

[31:58] ... kind of connected to what Dave just said, where, so if somebody applies for a

[32:03] permit, the borough will review the application for compliance with this ordinance

[32:07] and other applicable ordinances of the borough.

[32:09] The borough may request the assistance of the borough zoning officer, engineers,

[32:12] solicitor, other municipal officials.

[32:14] So it's not so much that this is opening the door for anything, it's just

[32:19] already presupposing that if somebody makes an application for a permit, they would

[32:25] need to comply with the zoning ordinance, comply with the building code if there's

[32:28] any building code provisions that are applicable, the floodplain ordinance,

[32:31] perhaps, if it's in a floodplain, all kinds of different other ordinances.

[32:35] So this isn't

[32:38] so much as opening a door for something as just kind of recognizing that there's

[32:44] all these other ordinances that work in tandem with the SATO anyway.

[32:47] And it's worth noting, too, the definition of mobile home under the SATO is a

[32:52] transportable single family dwelling intended for permanent occupancy.

[32:55] So that kind of gets back to Dave's point, which I

[32:58] guess intended to be part of a larger discussion at a later date.

[33:01] It is.

[33:01] But-

[33:03] Ultimately, one of the things that we've noticed in our zoning ordinance is we have

[33:06] some regulations for the placement of mobile homes, but they talk about the

[33:12] placements of those homes in mobile home parks, but they don't include other

[33:16] situations outside of a mobile home park.

[33:19] If they are permitted to be sited, it doesn't necessarily draw the connection

[33:24] between the two. This doesn't let that happen, because now this one is saying, when

[33:30] this is

[33:31] the use that's been proposed, these are the rules.

[33:34] So the siting would come, the actual location, wherever it is within the borough,

[33:39] will be under Chapter 27.

[33:41] This document, I believe, says that a mobile home is defined as a home that can be

[33:45] brought in, put down, and then moved later.

[33:49] But I thought we had talked in the past about putting some kind of ordinances in

[33:53] effect that if it was a mobile home that was brought in, it would have to be put

[33:57] down with some kind of permanent-

[33:59] Again, and we are going to talk about that later.

[34:01] You're exactly right, because in order to meet the definition of single family

[34:05] dwelling, they have to remove the mobile portion of the mobile home.

[34:09] Okay.

[34:09] So, I don't want to get into that conversation until the appropriate time that the

[34:14] planning commission's finished with it.

[34:15] But ultimately, right now, it's if you remove the wheels and the tongue, and it's

[34:19] permanently strapped to a permanent foundation, now it's considered to be a single

[34:23] family home, not a mobile home.

[34:26] Right.

[34:26] Right. Correct.

[34:33] All right.

[34:56] So if this were to come

[35:00] to fruition,

[35:03] it would only be

[35:07] in those big areas if they were ever developed. Is that what we're saying?

[35:15] No, I'm saying-

[35:16] Or are we saying that the government requires us to allow on single lots?

[35:21] Again, I promise you we will talk more about that.

[35:24] This is not talking about where they could be located.

[35:26] This is only discussing when they're permitted to be located, what the requirements

[35:31] will be specific to the site.

[35:34] When we decide where and when.

[35:36] Once you have determined via the zoning ordinance where these things would be

[35:41] permitted to be. A full-blown mobile home right now is only allowed in the same

[35:46] place that mobile home parks are. So it's not an issue.

[35:50] The only question becomes whether or not the council will be satisfied with the

[35:56] rules, and I'm not sure they're going to have a choice, but that once the tongue

[36:01] and everything's removed, it's no longer a mobile home, and now it's just a single

[36:05] family home, which I think we'll have to discuss in a lot more detail later.

[36:10] So this is just talking about what the design requirements will be wherever the

[36:16] other code says you're allowed to put them.

[36:19] So

[36:22] if we did it under zoning

[36:26] and address this, would we need to come back to this chapter and make changes?

[36:33] Well-

[36:34] If it didn't work out

[36:35] ... the zoning should be really talking about the site types of things more than

[36:39] these... This should be a higher level of detail in terms of the requirements

[36:45] of what you're doing, where the other one should be basically location and

[36:51] setbacks and things that are more spatially significant.

[36:55] This is more detail-oriented on the types of things that you'll do.

[37:00] So it's not uncommon to have rules in multiple places,

[37:05] unfortunately.

[37:06] And this section, or Article 6 generally, is primarily

[37:12] regulating mobile home parks. The majority of what that article is doing is the

[37:17] mobile home parks. What you're talking about, what you want to make sure that you

[37:21] have the rules in place for

[37:23] regulating individual mobile homes as you would any other single-family home, that

[37:28] is really a zoning. But if you look at, for instance, really starting with

[37:34] Section 4, all of the design and improvement standards, that's putting in place all

[37:40] of the site design and drainage setback and parking areas

[37:46] and size and shape of blocks and

[37:51] construction. That's park street system.

[37:54] That's all really contemplating if there's going to be a mobile home park

[37:58] developed. Again, that's also that runs in tandem with the zoning ordinance because

[38:03] a mobile home park is not a permitted use in every single zoning district.

[38:07] So again, getting back to the term, the sort of phrase of opening the door, all

[38:11] these provisions are doing is essentially saying, if the door is actually already

[38:15] open because of other ordinances, then these are the procedures that are in place,

[38:19] not independently opening the door

[38:23] for itself.

[38:30] Water supply and sewage disposal. So you've got electrical.

[38:35] This is all of the

[38:38] nitty-gritty land development type stuff.

[38:41] If someone's going to develop one of those parks, these are all the big picture

[38:43] rules that they have to put in.

[38:45] That's all I had.

[38:56] Any other discussion?

[39:00] Any public comment?

[39:01] Open to the public.

[39:06] I don't think we have anybody signed up to speak.

[39:09] We've had some confusion with sign-in sheets, but we're not

[39:13] 100% certain, so I would hope that you would ask the public that's here if they

[39:17] wanted to speak.

[39:20] One too many forms.

[39:26] Josh Williams.

[39:26] You can ask questions. I don't know if they'll answer them, but you can ask one.

[39:34] Whatever. It's good. All right. Good evening, everybody.

[39:36] So

[39:37] this, of course, is going to go to the glue factory eventually.

[39:41] Pulled up 600 for definitions for a mobile home.

[39:44] I know we're going to be discussing the mobile home of Josh Williams, 14 Gladys

[39:48] Trail. Sorry, do that part first. Is there a way to add an ordinance to it?

[39:53] And Dave, you said that if you take the tongue off and the axles off, it's no

[39:57] longer a mobile home, but those things can also be reattached and make it a mobile

[40:01] home again. We need to put something there that's going to be a solid slab, that it

[40:05] won't be built on stilts. It won't be an eyesore.

[40:08] If it's put on a solid slab, have skirting around it, even if the axle is already

[40:12] removed, again, it can be reattached, and it can be taken apart into two sections

[40:16] and pulled up a lot. We have a $700,000 house.

[40:19] I don't want a double wide trailer across the street from me to bring down my

[40:22] property value, and I don't think anybody else in our borough.

[40:25] I understand it's a federal regulation.

[40:27] Put rules in place to make it extremely difficult for somebody to put a mobile home

[40:32] on a single parcel, and then we're not violating a federal rule.

[40:38] You just have to abide by all these other rules in order to do it.

[40:41] That's all I got for that.

[40:42] Yeah, there's a lot of

[40:45] different things that you can do with that. You can start talking about roof pitch.

[40:48] You can talk about foundation. You can talk about gutters.

[40:51] There's a lot of things that you can do in terms to a mobile home that does exactly

[40:56] what you're talking about, and those discussions are being had.

[40:58] Thank you.

[40:59] Yeah, I would encourage Josh and really anybody who's interested in that topic to

[41:03] start attending planning commission meetings.

[41:05] We had our first very detailed conversation about all those topics last week.

[41:09] I would caution this, too. The term mobile home is a little bit of a misnomer.

[41:15] There's mobile homes and manufactured homes.

[41:18] A manufactured home is what Josh just said.

[41:20] Basically comes in in two pieces or on a couple of trucks, and they put it down and

[41:24] put it together. But a mobile home is a trailer, or we mostly just refer to it as a

[41:29] trailer. So any ordinances that are written should address that.

[41:34] Well, and as you would hear at the planning commission, we did talk at great length

[41:38] again about these topics, and we are somewhat handcuffed on what we can do based

[41:44] upon federal discrimination cases and things of that nature.

[41:48] But we are looking at all the different things that we might be able to do, and

[41:52] before it ever comes to any proposed changes would come to this board, it's going

[41:57] to go through a detailed review by our attorney to be sure that we could even make

[42:04] proposals to make those changes.

[42:07] I encourage everybody to show up for the planning commission

[42:10] meeting.

[42:16] Eric?

[42:22] State your full name and address.

[42:29] Of course. Hi, my name's Eric Johnson.

[42:30] I live at Four Raven Trail, and I want to start by just asking a quick question

[42:35] since I just found out about this

[42:39] land development

[42:41] about a half an hour ago. What was the purpose behind making these changes?

[42:46] Are we just trying to update our existing ordinances?

[42:49] Is there something going on that it might necessitate a change?

[42:54] What was the reason behind developing these changes?

[42:58] Well,

[43:00] it was a very old 70-page document.

[43:04] So it's mostly we're just updating?

[43:07] And updated, and actually, we do have large parcels

[43:13] that at any time

[43:16] they could come in and ask our approval for development.

[43:21] Has anybody come in and asked for development?

[43:24] In the past they have, yes.

[43:26] Has anybody recently? I know we have some pretty big pieces of land that were just

[43:29] sold next to Perna that was an acre or something like that.

[43:34] I don't think that sold yet.

[43:36] Hmm?

[43:36] Is that sold yet?

[43:37] I could be wrong.

[43:38] I thought I heard somebody say there was two, one was sold, one wasn't.

[43:41] I don't know.

[43:43] Yeah. To get back to what he said, the original subdivision ordinance was adopted

[43:47] in 1979 and hadn't been changed, so that the original reason to look at

[43:53] it was just to update it and be sure because in Adams County in general, every

[43:58] municipality is getting peppered with development.

[44:01] We wanted to make sure we had newer regulations in place.

[44:04] So you actually asked two questions, so I'd like to separate the two because doing

[44:09] what we're doing has nothing to do with whether or not we think there's going to be

[44:12] a development. It's about being proactive and making sure that we have good rules

[44:15] in place if that does happen. The second part of the question was have we heard

[44:19] anything. I've had two conversations about the one parcel with two different

[44:24] developers that's up the street for sale right now.

[44:26] I mean, everybody sees the for sale signs, so I'm sure people have wondered about

[44:29] it. I have no idea. We haven't received anything formally, just simple

[44:33] conversations about that.

[44:36] We have one other landowner who has been in twice over the years seeking

[44:43] different kinds of developments in there.

[44:45] And I've said it, I'll say it here. I said it one other time not long ago in this

[44:50] room. It's going to happen. I'm sorry. We have a wonderful community.

[44:56] There's a lot of reason why people would want to build on the parcels that are

[44:59] here, and we just have to be prepared for them the best that we can whenever they

[45:04] do show up.

[45:05] And this basically sets it up to where we do it under our term.

[45:10] Yeah.

[45:10] As well as we can, of course.

[45:12] That's why I was just asking the general reason behind just being proactive,

[45:15] updating, or if there was something specific that we were either trying to

[45:18] encourage or discourage.

[45:20] But the Aluma property that is next to Skeeter, they have a 15-year

[45:26] drop-dead date on their sewer hookup.

[45:28] So one would think in the next 15 years that they're going to try to

[45:33] Execute on them. Yeah.

[45:35] They're already logging over there, which makes me think that they're planning on

[45:39] selling the land. Because in Pennsylvania, the logs aren't

[45:45] part of the property anymore, right?

[45:48] Agricultural economy.

[45:49] Logging that area.

[45:53] Well, come on up, sign the sheet, and you can talk.

[45:56] You especially. You can talk anytime you want.

[46:00] Don't say that. Then you should tell me to shut up.

[46:02] No, I want you to keep talking.

[46:06] Thank you again for everything you did.

[46:08] It was collaborative.

[46:11] Do I need to time you?

[46:12] You can if you want.

[46:17] Tiffany Price, 59 Mile Trail. I just had a couple questions.

[46:22] Now, I perused this. I did not sit down and read it completely.

[46:26] Are they still going to have the mandatory at least a half an acre lot to build on,

[46:31] or... I seen mention in here of condominiums, homeowners associations, things

[46:37] of that. And Carroll Valley's pretty strict as it is, people coming in here saying

[46:40] that, "We're a homeowners association," which like you said, it was developed that

[46:45] way back in the '70s when everything was put into place.

[46:49] But I was just curious about that. And then the other thing was the joint use of

[46:53] residential driveways. So I have a lot that someone actually put part of their

[46:58] driveway onto my lot. And so the thought process was if I

[47:04] sold it, we could each use that lot to go in.

[47:09] So I was curious about that, because that's under the residential, no use of

[47:12] resident joint on page, go back over 40, I think

[47:18] it's like-

[47:19] Anything that's existing would be grandfathered, correct?

[47:22] But it's only half of that driveway is on my lot.

[47:26] I'm going to answer both questions.

[47:27] The first question was about the size of the lots.

[47:30] That's governed through Chapter 27, not through this.

[47:33] So the size of lots is set in zoning, and so you'd have to refer to that code for

[47:39] that. The question about the driveways, and I knew you were going to ask that

[47:43] because you've asked me one other time.

[47:45] And I'll tell you again, I don't know if I even gave you a good answer last time,

[47:49] but today I've got a good answer. And that is, I don't know if it would be

[47:52] grandfathered or wouldn't be grandfathered, but these requirements in the

[47:55] Subdivision Land Development Ordinance are flexible enough that you could talk to

[48:01] Tiffany at the time, and you could grant Tiffany the ability to do it, just

[48:04] individually. You could waive that requirement for her.

[48:07] It happens in developments all the time.

[48:09] So if these rules aren't quite as concrete as a zoning ordinance requirement,

[48:15] and they allow the council to make changes to it, not a zoning hearing board, for

[48:21] example. So.

[48:22] Correct me if I'm wrong, but eight or nine years ago, didn't we do that with

[48:29] a driveway? About eight or nine years ago, didn't we do that with a driveway, where

[48:33] we allowed somebody to build their driveway with the permission of the landowner

[48:39] in, I think it was a few years ago.

[48:40] Yeah, I know-

[48:41] That was for access to property

[48:43] ... it was actually just outside of Carroll Valley. Yeah.

[48:47] We thought we were looking out for that property.

[48:51] So I understand what you're saying and, the rule doesn't

[48:57] encourage the use of those kinds of driveways, but that doesn't mean that

[49:02] individual cases, you couldn't hear from them and decide whether or not

[49:06] individually that situation warranted allowing it.

[49:11] So with the half acre lot, does that mean condominiums would potentially be

[49:14] excluded from being built in Carroll Valley, and townhomes, or is that-

[49:19] Yeah, 27.

[49:22] Sorry. It is. The types of homes on lots, that's all governed by your zoning

[49:28] board.

[49:28] All right, and then the homeowners association clause is in here that Carroll

[49:33] Valley's third party. Does that mean that they have all of their own rules?

[49:37] These would set rules up if a developer proposed a development that was going to

[49:42] have a homeowners association as part of their boundaries.

[49:48] Correct me if I'm wrong, the homeowners association's rules can't supersede our

[49:52] rules. Am I correct there?

[49:53] No, there are two sets of rules, correct.

[49:57] Is that what you were asking, if they can supersede and then-

[50:00] No.

[50:02] They can't-

[50:02] Well, they can't-

[50:03] They can't have a development over here with a homeowners association and then try

[50:07] to affect places outside of their boundary.

[50:10] Correct.

[50:10] But basically, the rules that are set for what you're saying, the rules are set for

[50:14] Carroll Valley, they have to follow those, but then they can have different rules

[50:18] that don't supersede our rules. Am I correct?

[50:23] If I'm splitting the hair with the word supersede, they can't avoid your rules.

[50:27] That's what I meant.

[50:28] They can have rules that go above and beyond yours, and

[50:33] then that's not a borough issue. You can have that outside of the context of an

[50:39] HOA. You could have a subdivision plan that gets recorded, and as a part of all of

[50:44] those deeds created by that subdivision, there could be restrictive covenants that

[50:49] say you can't have chickens or you can't whatever.

[50:52] And the individual private property owners have rights and responsibility,

[50:58] nothing to do with the borough.

[51:01] So they're just two different things.

[51:05] Use of an HOA doesn't have any impact on the enforceability or validity of rules

[51:10] that you haven't put in place, but they may put on themselves rules and

[51:13] regulations. Is that what you're asking?

[51:17] I think how it would-

[51:19] Yeah. So they have to follow our rules first.

[51:26] The HOA can't make rules that say, "Oh, you don't have to follow this or that from

[51:30] the Carroll Valley Code of Ordinances." Property that was being developed in those

[51:36] instances. So unless you bought property there and were notified of what those

[51:40] rules were as a buying person,

[51:44] it would only be an issue for the properties being developed.

[51:49] Yeah.

[51:55] Any other discussion on this issue?

[52:01] Do I have a motion to adjourn this public hearing?

[52:05] Motion to adjourn.

[52:08] Second.

[52:08] Motion and a second to adjourn this public hearing.

[52:12] Any other discussion on that? None? All in favor say aye.

[52:18] Aye.

[52:19] Opposed?

[52:21] Okay.

[52:23] We're now open to the public again

[52:29] on topics that we'll be discussing tonight.

[52:34] I don't see any volunteers for that one.

[52:38] Okay, ordinance number two.

[52:42] Miss B.

[52:42] Hmm?

[52:43] Miss B.

[52:48] Oh, yes. I did miss our librarian.

[52:54] Good evening, everyone. I know most of you already, but my name's Sherry DiMartino,

[52:59] and I'm the branch manager of the Carroll Valley Library.

[53:02] Thanks for the opportunity to speak with you tonight on behalf of the Adams County

[53:06] Library System.

[53:08] For more than 80 years, the Adams County Library System has been a vital part of

[53:12] our community. While the way we access and use information has evolved dramatically

[53:16] over those eight decades, our work has remained constant: to provide Adams County

[53:21] residents with access to materials and information that support formal and lifelong

[53:25] learning, enrichment, and enjoyment.

[53:28] Today, we are proud to serve our communities through convenient locations in

[53:32] Biglerville, Carroll Valley, East Berlin, Gettysburg, Littlestown, and New Oxford.

[53:37] I want to especially highlight that a majority of residents in this borough visit

[53:41] our library right here in Carroll Valley, making our presence here not just a

[53:44] convenience, but a true community cornerstone.

[53:48] Our libraries deliver real measurable value to your taxpayers.

[53:52] In 2025 alone, residents of Carroll Valley saved an estimated

[53:56] $236,306 simply by borrowing physical books rather than

[54:02] purchasing them from a bookstore.

[54:04] That figure is based on the average book price reported by School Library Journal

[54:09] and represents real money staying in the pockets of your constituents.

[54:13] Beyond the savings, we offer a wide range of programs, averaging more than one

[54:17] event per day across all our locations.

[54:20] Summer is especially critical with our Summer Quest program permitting reading and

[54:24] helping prevent the summer slide that sets so many students back when school is

[54:28] out.

[54:29] But I would also like to address the challenges we face.

[54:33] Pennsylvania continues to struggle with significant literacy issues, with more than

[54:38] 44% of third graders scoring basic or below basic on state assessments.

[54:43] Research consistently shows that early reading proficiency is strongly linked to

[54:48] long-term social and health outcomes.

[54:50] And here in Adams County, about one in five adults lack basic literacy, math, and

[54:54] problem-solving skills.

[54:57] Public libraries like ours are on the front lines of addressing these needs through

[55:01] early literacy programs, summer learning, and broad access to books and educational

[55:05] support for families. Yet the numbers tell a troubling story.

[55:10] Pennsylvania spends roughly $58,000 annually to house a single inmate but

[55:16] invests only about $5.77 per resident in public libraries.

[55:21] State funding has remained largely stagnant for decades, even as our costs continue

[55:25] to rise.

[55:27] This brings me to why I'm here tonight.

[55:31] The Adams County Library System receives vital support from 22 local

[55:34] municipalities. This funding, modest as it may seem, helps us

[55:40] maintain the high quality of services we offer to the people of Adams County.

[55:45] As a nonprofit organization, we rely heavily on fundraising to cover a significant

[55:50] portion of our operating budget. But municipal support remains essential, and we

[55:54] are deeply grateful for the partnership we share with you.

[55:58] On behalf of our board, our dedicated staff, and the thousands of residents who

[56:02] walk through our doors each year, especially those in Carroll Valley, who count on

[56:06] us every single day, I want to thank you for your continued support.

[56:11] Your investment enables us to provide books, movies, community programs, and so

[56:14] much more to your constituents. It keeps our doors open and our services accessible

[56:19] to everyone.

[56:21] We welcome the opportunity to continue this partnership and hope we can count on

[56:25] your continued support again next year. Thank you for your time.

[56:29] Thank you. And thank you for all you do.

[56:35] Okay,

[56:37] now Ordinance Number 2 2026, Chapter 22, Soldo

[56:43] Amendment for approval. Do we have a motion to approve?

[56:48] Motion to approve.

[56:52] Seconded.

[56:53] We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion?

[57:01] No.

[57:01] Hearing none,

[57:07] all in favor say aye.

[57:08] Aye.

[57:09] Aye.

[57:11] Opposed?

[57:14] You can move forward, Gail.

[57:20] The mayor's report. Mr. Mayor?

[57:22] Mayor, you're

[57:28] up.

[57:29] Yes.

[57:30] I know, but I want you to...

[57:35] Oh.

[57:38] Yes.

[57:40] I would like to take a moment of silence for September the 11th,

[57:47] as it recently passed. And to do that, you could read it across, but I'm going to

[57:54] say the numbers and the type of people that were lost.

[58:00] 2,735 civilians in the World Trade Center,

[58:06] 87 aboard American Airlines flight that hit the North Tower,

[58:12] 60 aboard the United flight that hit the South Tower,

[58:18] 343 people, New York City

[58:23] firefighters and rescue workers, 23 New York City law enforcement

[58:29] officers, 47 Port Authority workers, 37

[58:35] Port Authority police officers, 36 aboard United Flight 93 that

[58:41] crashed in Pennsylvania,

[58:44] 64 aboard American Airlines flight that crashed into the

[58:49] Pentagon, 170, 125

[58:55] civilians and military in the Pentagon.

[59:05] Thank you. Next slide, please.

[59:09] Police report, around town coming events and in requiem.

[59:14] Next slide, please. Carroll Valley Police Department.

[59:20] Our chief is on a cruise. He is not here, but he did

[59:26] want me to bring it up to the council,

[59:30] medicine Take Back program, and there'll be a slide later on that he'll be

[59:36] addressing it. And then I think it's pronounced WEENA, right?

[59:40] WEENA Mobile is coming to Pippinfest.

[59:46] I think it's on Sunday, and good time to take a picture.

[59:53] He also wanted to bring to everybody's attention, we know this weekend is going to

[59:58] have a lot of people driving through Fairfield, so be

[1:00:04] careful. Next slide, please. Around town. Next slide, please.

[1:00:10] September the 11th, we had a blood drive.

[1:00:13] The results were 28 donors,

[1:00:18] 26 units were collected, which saved 78 local

[1:00:24] lives. Next blood drive is going to be November 30th, and I'll bring it

[1:00:30] up to your attention. Next slide, please.

[1:00:34] This has been such a hit and maybe

[1:00:40] Gail will say a few words about it.

[1:00:43] I crossed out 9/11 because we passed 9/11. Next slide, please.

[1:00:50] I'd like to just say Parks and Rec put on an awesome blood drive.

[1:01:02] Volunteers there have enjoying what they've done.

[1:01:09] Next slide, please. Gail, would you want to mention what was done?

[1:01:14] We did the, as you said, the Parks and Rec committee, the chairman specifically,

[1:01:21] wanted us to reach out to the local fire departments and ambulance crews, which we

[1:01:26] did, and we were blessed with Fairfield, Fountaindale, and Arms.

[1:01:31] All three brought units and their staff with them.

[1:01:38] The one

[1:01:40] food truck,

[1:01:43] Dirty Pop Sodas, is actually owned and run by a firefighter,

[1:01:49] and they had a special drink that evening, and a local donor, anonymous,

[1:01:56] offered free

[1:01:59] drink from their place for any active member of a

[1:02:05] fire department or first responder, police, whatever,

[1:02:11] and they were visited by several. So I understand that that went over very well.

[1:02:17] So we would like to thank the departments for coming down.

[1:02:21] We also had a police cruiser there and a police officer.

[1:02:24] So Chief made sure that our police department was represented as well,

[1:02:29] and we want to say thank you. Food Truck Fridays have been an incredible success,

[1:02:34] and it was nice to be able to use that event to say thank you.

[1:02:39] Next slide, please.

[1:02:43] September the 10th, which is also passed, has been

[1:02:49] designated as suicide prevention.

[1:02:53] You could read the script that I placed below.

[1:02:57] If you know of someone

[1:03:02] that is questioning that they have a problem and they don't know how

[1:03:07] to navigate solving that problem,

[1:03:13] please

[1:03:16] call. You call, not the person who's talking about something.

[1:03:21] You call and talk to the people, and they'll guide you on what to

[1:03:27] do. Adams County, we've lost 24 lives.

[1:03:36] Next slide, please.

[1:03:38] Upcoming events. Next slide, please. We all know it, right?

[1:03:44] Pippinfest

[1:03:47] Both days. I think Saturday they do the community

[1:03:53] day. I have something that I could sell

[1:03:58] on Sunday is actually the one celebrating.

[1:04:03] Next slide, please. Gail, you want to figure out what I was

[1:04:09] trying to figure out with that thing in the middle of the thing?

[1:04:15] The QR code.

[1:04:15] Oh, once again, yes. Once again, the Recreation

[1:04:20] Committee is sponsoring the yard sale map. This has been quite successful for us.

[1:04:26] We will put anyone in the area, doesn't have to be just Carroll Valley Borough, but

[1:04:32] in the area for $10. And, yes, if you scan the

[1:04:39] code there in the center that's green, has our little symbol in it, it will take

[1:04:43] you directly to the

[1:04:47] bit.ly/pivonfest-

[1:04:51] Pivon sale.

[1:04:53] Pivon sale. Sorry, I can't see through Josh's head. Sorry about that.

[1:04:58] But it'll take you directly there. Sign up. You can pay online.

[1:05:03] Give us a description of where you are, what you're selling.

[1:05:07] As I said, it's been very well received, so hopefully we get a lot more

[1:05:11] participants.

[1:05:13] You mean my wife will sell my... Never mind. That's a personal problem.

[1:05:19] Next slide, please.

[1:05:20] Yeah, we're signing up without you now.

[1:05:22] Yeah.

[1:05:22] She's going to send you away and sell your stuff on the yard.

[1:05:25] Yeah. Thank you very much. Out of bounds for October.

[1:05:28] Out of bounds outside Carroll Valley. So you can take a look at two things.

[1:05:34] And it might be, I know there's some people that are interested in a second one and

[1:05:39] cycling on weekends, and I put down the ad.

[1:05:44] You see it says, "Bike tours by Linda at Hawaii," whatever, "hoo."

[1:05:52] So the idea of being there... What are you laughing about?

[1:05:57] I don't know what you just said, but it sounded like a why and a who.

[1:06:02] I said on Hawaii.

[1:06:03] It's Yahoo! Yahoo.

[1:06:05] Oh, Yahoo. That's how you say it. Okay.

[1:06:08] Not yoo-hoo.

[1:06:09] So anyway, next slide, please.

[1:06:13] Senate bill. Law takes effect October the 19th,

[1:06:18] right?

[1:06:19] Hope it works.

[1:06:19] This is about telemarketing. So I would make a

[1:06:25] telephone call if you get a telemarketer doing something.

[1:06:33] Next slide, please.

[1:06:36] This is coming from the attorney general, and it has to do with a

[1:06:42] medical

[1:06:44] app.

[1:06:46] And the medical app is MyChart. I don't know in our particular area, but some

[1:06:52] people may use that as...

[1:06:55] All right. Mine is WellSpan. But if you use MyChart,

[1:07:01] if you get a message,

[1:07:05] delete it. Don't unsubscribe. If you do unsubscribe, guess what?

[1:07:10] You had to do a click. That means they're going to get you.

[1:07:16] Right? So be careful about this.

[1:07:18] I got a brief on that today, Ron. And in fact, the site looks

[1:07:24] exactly like the MyChart site there.

[1:07:26] It's very evolved as far as how they're designing it, so people think that it's

[1:07:30] actually their doctor's office sending them an email, and then they go and click on

[1:07:33] it, and yeah, they're getting a lot of people.

[1:07:36] So it's the second time I've heard it today.

[1:07:39] Thank you for saying that.

[1:07:44] Hopefully everybody had time to read. Next slide, please.

[1:07:50] October the 24th, COVID device recycling.

[1:07:55] So computers, you can see the list. The list is published.

[1:08:02] Recycling, where you can see where.

[1:08:07] Next slide.

[1:08:08] Sorry, I won't do it.

[1:08:09] No, that's okay. Here's the medicine take back, 24th also

[1:08:15] from 10:00 to

[1:08:16] 2:00. Next slide,

[1:08:21] please.

[1:08:24] I'm turning it over to Gail once again because of recreation.

[1:08:30] This is just an early

[1:08:33] warning for you, or save the date for the Trunk or Treat.

[1:08:39] It's become a very popular event for us.

[1:08:43] If you would like to be a trunk, please sign up.

[1:08:46] We are also having food trucks that day because it is a Saturday, so the event is

[1:08:51] going to go from 3:00 till 8:00. The trunk-or-treating itself will be from 5:00 to

[1:08:56] 7:00.

[1:08:57] As I said, please give us a call. We'll sign you up for the Trunk or Treat.

[1:09:01] Otherwise, bring your kids down to trick-or-treat here and have some dinner.

[1:09:09] Next slide, please. In rec we... Next slide, please.

[1:09:17] Next slide, please.

[1:09:26] Next slide, please.

[1:09:28] Thank you for listening.

[1:09:30] Before we move on,

[1:09:32] I'd like to say something about the police department.

[1:09:35] My charity had a charity motorcycle ride go through Carroll Valley and

[1:09:40] Fairfield a few weeks back for a local resident.

[1:09:43] And one of the officers helped us with some traffic control at the corner of Jacks

[1:09:49] Mountain and 116. I just wanted to thank the police department for doing that for

[1:09:52] us.

[1:09:57] The officer's name is Reed.

[1:10:02] Thank you.

[1:10:07] Okay. We received the Arms Fairfield Fire Department and

[1:10:13] Fountain Dale Fire Department reports.

[1:10:16] Any comments with regard to those reports?

[1:10:25] Thank you to all three of those organizations for providing their reports for last

[1:10:30] month.

[1:10:32] Committee reports. Park and Recreation Committee.

[1:10:40] We got their report. Any

[1:10:43] comments with regard to the-

[1:10:44] I think it's amazing as much as they have done.

[1:10:48] If you look at that report, it's phenomenal-

[1:10:51] Yeah

[1:10:52] ... they're planning on doing. It's just a ton of stuff that they're doing, and I

[1:10:57] think it's great.

[1:10:58] I agree.

[1:10:59] Agreed.

[1:11:00] Paul. Richard, I did miss, I wanted to mention that

[1:11:06] Mountain Dale did say that they took on two more junior members, so good for them,

[1:11:10] and that's awesome that they're getting the youth involved in the volunteer program

[1:11:13] at the fire department.

[1:11:14] Good.

[1:11:17] And Michael, you want to say anything about the Planning Commission report?

[1:11:23] particularly.

[1:11:24] Okay. Everybody's at it. They breathe, right?

[1:11:28] Three new topics, yeah. Three new topics we're working on.

[1:11:31] So it's all there in the memo.

[1:11:34] Okay. Well, thank you to Jenny Jorell and Michael White for their reports.

[1:11:41] Administrative business. Treasurer's report for August 2026.

[1:11:48] Dave?

[1:11:50] Yeah. You got it.

[1:11:53] Anything to say about that?

[1:11:55] Nope.

[1:11:55] Nope? Okay.

[1:11:57] I would normally say if they are provided for you, if you have any questions, I'll

[1:12:00] ask Gail to answer them for you.

[1:12:03] Okay.

[1:12:03] So, do we have a motion to approve?

[1:12:06] Motion to approve.

[1:12:08] Seconded.

[1:12:09] We have a motion and a second. Any discussion by council members?

[1:12:15] Hearing none, all in favor say aye.

[1:12:18] Aye.

[1:12:19] Aye.

[1:12:20] Aye.

[1:12:20] Opposed?

[1:12:22] It's unanimous, Gail.

[1:12:24] Thank you.

[1:12:26] 2027 MMO transmittal.

[1:12:32] Yeah. We specifically, Gail and I, are required by law to notify you,

[1:12:38] at this time of the year, of the form that was filled out, which is outlining what

[1:12:44] our minimum municipal obligation will be in the plan year 2027 for both your

[1:12:50] uniforms and non-uniformed pension plans. And so we consider that done.

[1:12:55] But I do always like to remind everybody, since we will be getting into the budget

[1:12:59] soon, that there's a couple of line items in the budget that I take literally right

[1:13:03] from this piece of paper

[1:13:11] The LSA Grant Bathroom RFP.

[1:13:18] Yeah, if you'll recall, we had an LSA grant approved, and we've been doing little

[1:13:23] projects in the park. It was overall improvements to Carroll Commons.

[1:13:27] This is another part of that. Quite frankly, I think it's the last part of that

[1:13:32] grant, to build a small restroom on the other side of the...

[1:13:38] Can I say crick? Am I allowed to say crick, or is that- You can ...

[1:13:42] on the other side of the crick, because apparently it's too hard to walk up here to

[1:13:46] go to the bathroom.

[1:13:48] I kid a little. Anyway, so what we've given you is an

[1:13:54] invitation to bid packet, and in order to move that project

[1:14:00] forward, we're

[1:14:04] proposing a seven-foot-by-seven-foot ADA-compliant restroom facility in the park.

[1:14:08] So this would be that invitation to try to find bidders.

[1:14:13] And as I told you the last time we talked about bidding in general, utilizing

[1:14:17] online bid,

[1:14:20] PennBid in particular, would be one of our options also.

[1:14:23] Because this is a small project, our hopes are that we'll actually get a good

[1:14:27] turnout of bidders locally, so we didn't want to do it solely on PennBid.

[1:14:31] So it would be a mix of both taking electronic bids and then also the paper bid

[1:14:36] process that we have not really done.

[1:14:39] It would be great if we could get a local resident to bid for that and

[1:14:44] get it.

[1:14:46] Yeah, I think it would be great if that happened, too, as long as they're the

[1:14:49] lowest bidder, because that's all that-

[1:14:50] I get that

[1:14:51] ...

[1:14:53] sorry. Price matters in our world.

[1:14:56] Does.

[1:15:01] Move to approve.

[1:15:04] So do we have a motion to approve?

[1:15:06] Motion to approve.

[1:15:07] Second.

[1:15:10] Any discussion?

[1:15:14] And you said it's going to be handicapped accessible?

[1:15:16] Yes, sir.

[1:15:20] Any other discussion?

[1:15:24] Hearing none, all in favor say aye.

[1:15:26] Aye.

[1:15:27] Opposed?

[1:15:30] It's unanimous, Gail.

[1:15:31] Okay.

[1:15:35] Unfinished business, grant funding updates.

[1:15:44] I think it's amazing what GMS has done for us over the years, and I'd love for you

[1:15:49] to be able to let her know that. She is just out of this world.

[1:15:54] I don't think the citizens understand,

[1:15:57] I would even venture to say the millions-

[1:16:00] Yeah, I'll let Harlan know

[1:16:01] ... Yeah, the millions of dollars.

[1:16:03] It's a he now. That's fine.

[1:16:05] It's a he. Sorry, yeah.

[1:16:06] It's okay. But they do a great job, and I actually have hot-off-the-press news that

[1:16:10] just came out this afternoon, that for those of you familiar with the sewer

[1:16:15] project that we've been kind of delaying out on Country Club Trail, we were awarded

[1:16:21] just this afternoon half a million dollars toward that project as well, with

[1:16:27] GMS's help. So they keep finding us money and making it

[1:16:32] successful. They are worth every single penny we pay them, and I'm just

[1:16:38] tickled that we'll be able to move that project forward, and that's going to make

[1:16:41] quite a difference to the residents out there when we complete that project.

[1:16:44] So-

[1:16:45] Thank you for pushing that, Dave.

[1:16:46] Did we get all that we were asking for?

[1:16:49] No, but we had asked for, I think, 750,000. We were awarded 800?

[1:16:55] 800. She said we asked for 800,000. We were awarded half a million.

[1:16:59] But according to the press release,

[1:17:01] there's going to be a press release that comes from our office, too,

[1:17:08] and I'm going from my memory right now, but there were requests in the trillions,

[1:17:12] and they were only able to fund 300 and some million, and we were one of them.

[1:17:17] So, it wasn't just that they funded everybody.

[1:17:20] We had a competitive application, and with GMS's help and support of

[1:17:27] our elected officials, our local leaders, we were able to do that.

[1:17:30] So I know they didn't know that whenever they wrote this update for you last week,

[1:17:35] so I wanted to let everybody know the good news on that end as well.

[1:17:40] It helps.

[1:17:45] Any update on the Penn Trails

[1:17:51] beyond what is in this report,

[1:17:55] the proposals on September 10?

[1:18:00] We opened the bids, and we're in the process of evaluating the bids with Penn

[1:18:04] Trails. We just didn't feel comfortable.

[1:18:07] There were a number of bids, but the prices were all over the place.

[1:18:13] So we're going to do a deep dive into the proposals to try to get a feel for why

[1:18:17] they were so different and make sure that we've provided a good recommendation to

[1:18:22] council, and the committee wanted to see it before you guys did.

[1:18:25] So the intention is the award for that will be on your next agenda in October.

[1:18:37] Okay. Next up is lot sales.

[1:18:44] Okay. So

[1:18:47] these together, we did get some of the appraisals back.

[1:18:54] I'm going to go down the list, and I'm going

[1:18:58] to go in my order. So bear with me here, because not all of them are new to this

[1:19:03] process that are on the list.

[1:19:07] 15 Mason Dixon, as a reminder, that's number one on the list.

[1:19:10] That is one that we had previously awarded, and the person decided that they didn't

[1:19:16] want it any longer. So that is back on the list again.

[1:19:21] Number two is because I had a resident reach out to me, and they now live next to

[1:19:27] Six Burr Trail, and they want to buy it. You've put that out to bid several times.

[1:19:31] So either that goes back out to auction, or you authorize Dave, I'm speaking about

[1:19:37] myself in the third person, to negotiate and bring a best offer from that

[1:19:41] individual property owner. Really up to you guys how you want to process that one.

[1:19:47] Remember what that was appraised for?

[1:19:49] I

[1:19:51] don't, but it

[1:19:53] was high because it did pass

[1:19:59] PERC,

[1:20:01] but the site has a lot of issues.

[1:20:04] Challenges. I'm familiar with that lot.

[1:20:06] Yeah, and there are extenuating circumstances even

[1:20:11] with the PERC result itself that I'm not real comfortable with.

[1:20:15] So I'm not sure that the appraiser had enough information to give us a good

[1:20:21] appraisal on it, and I think that's pretty indicative that it probably wasn't

[1:20:25] correct since there was no interest in buying it.

[1:20:28] So-

[1:20:29] Like this from the road.

[1:20:30] Yeah. The reality is that the best thing that could happen to this lot is it be

[1:20:35] added to the neighboring property,

[1:20:38] one side or the other. I didn't want to pick one, so I put it on this list.

[1:20:43] If you want me to negotiate with the one resident who asked, I can.

[1:20:46] I'll do it however council directs me to do it, but I wanted to specify and get

[1:20:51] that in front of you right now.

[1:20:58] My only concern is that we've told people before

[1:21:03] that they have to go through the process.

[1:21:06] Well, right, and this lot has gone through the process now.

[1:21:10] All I'm saying is if we wanted to, we could negotiate.

[1:21:13] I happen to feel

[1:21:16] I don't want to pick favorites. The other person on the other side might want it,

[1:21:21] too. The other person on the back might want it, too. We don't really know.

[1:21:25] We won't know.

[1:21:26] Well, if it's-

[1:21:27] There's nobody on the other side. I know that.

[1:21:29] Well, but there's still a parcel.

[1:21:31] But there is somebody that backs up to it.

[1:21:33] And the person on the other side of that parcel was actually who had asked us to

[1:21:38] put it up for sale initially. Now, I think that has changed ownership and stuff.

[1:21:44] So the reality is it may only be still the one person interested.

[1:21:48] But

[1:21:50] if you put it out to bid, my recommendation is making the minimum bid nothing and

[1:21:54] seeing what you get in terms of the highest bid.

[1:21:59] I think that you could do it either way.

[1:22:00] I think that Zach thinks that you can do it either way.

[1:22:04] I just spoke for him and hoped he didn't correct me.

[1:22:07] And

[1:22:09] so really, whatever you want to do.

[1:22:10] We can take it off this list, and I can talk to him, or we'll leave it on the list

[1:22:13] and go through the auction. Whatever council wants to do.

[1:22:16] Well, if we went

[1:22:20] If we went through the auction, we could tell the owners of the abutting

[1:22:25] properties that it's going to go up.

[1:22:29] And that's part of a process. We'll do that for everyone on the list.

[1:22:33] So everybody gets personal notification if you have an adjoining property.

[1:22:38] So then that should work to-

[1:22:41] It had originally appraised at 22,000. Thank you, Gail.

[1:22:50] Rather than just inviting the three around it, wouldn't it be better to just

[1:22:56] tell them that it's going to go up and then let anybody bid?

[1:23:00] Yeah, that's probably the fair way. Yeah.

[1:23:06] If you weren't asking me, I hope, because I'm not going to answer that.

[1:23:08] But that's okay. You guys were elected into office to make decisions like that.

[1:23:13] I don't know what's fair and what isn't.

[1:23:14] Two things. It's been for sale once or twice? Twice.

[1:23:17] And no-

[1:23:19] Might even have been three times. It was several times.

[1:23:22] It was three times.

[1:23:22] At that point then, we have discretion to-

[1:23:25] Got you

[1:23:26] ... get rid of it the way we want and get other properties on the list.

[1:23:29] So I'm

[1:23:31] in favor of just negotiating, getting this property out of the way-

[1:23:36] That's what we want

[1:23:36] ... getting a property that's maybe a little bit more valuable on the list.

[1:23:40] Is it one that we pay tax on?

[1:23:44] I don't believe so.

[1:23:48] Well, then we definitely got an obvious visit.

[1:23:53] As many as we can.

[1:23:54] We're trying.

[1:23:55] I'm okay with either way, as long as we don't set that ridiculous appraisal price

[1:23:59] on it.

[1:24:01] Well, I appreciate you guys being able to make a decision, but you're hung right

[1:24:06] now, so someone's got to tell me what-

[1:24:07] So do we have to vote on this? Do we have to vote?

[1:24:09] You don't have to vote on it. I just would like direction from the majority.

[1:24:12] I'll say, like I'll disagree with what they're saying just to

[1:24:18] get us from the hung jury.

[1:24:19] I say if it's been for sale twice at least with no offers, I say let Dave negotiate

[1:24:24] if there's a resident that's interested then.

[1:24:27] Yeah.

[1:24:29] Well, yeah, Dale said it was three times, so I can go along with it.

[1:24:34] Negotiate with the property owner who requested it?

[1:24:36] Appreciate her highlighting, Dave.

[1:24:37] I drive a hard bargain on lots that I can't wait to get rid of.

[1:24:44] Well, I guess the question then is, do we just go to the one who has asked for it

[1:24:50] or do we talk to all of them?

[1:24:52] I think I was-

[1:24:53] Let them bid against each other

[1:24:55] Would you like me to reach out to all the-

[1:24:57] Yes

[1:24:57] ... adjoining property owners?

[1:24:58] Yes.

[1:24:59] And I'll do that.

[1:25:00] Because that's just fair.

[1:25:01] That's a good middle ground there, then it doesn't get any builders or anybody

[1:25:06] involved. It just keeps... And then with whomever purchasing it, they would

[1:25:10] understand that our requirement would be that the property needs to be added, the

[1:25:14] property line needs to be dissolved.

[1:25:16] Right.

[1:25:17] Okay. I'll do that. I'll take care of that.

[1:25:18] So that would come off of this notice then, that individual lot.

[1:25:23] 68 Shirley Trail was on a previous, but we had gotten a bid, but not a bid that met

[1:25:29] the appraisal value. I had it reappraised this time around, because the last

[1:25:34] appraisal was a good bit higher than what is here now.

[1:25:38] So 68 Shirley Trail and then the two new ones to the list are 10 Martin and 43

[1:25:43] Skylake. They both passed PERC and were appraised, and you can see their values.

[1:25:47] So,

[1:25:50] if there's any specific questions on those lots, I'm glad to do my best to answer

[1:25:54] them. It's taken us quite some time, a lot longer than I anticipated to get to this

[1:25:59] sale. I was hoping to do another one this year, and I don't know that we will.

[1:26:05] But

[1:26:06] once we get this one complete, the next sale needs to be more focused on anything

[1:26:11] that we're paying taxes on and things of that nature.

[1:26:14] Do we have any more sewered lots that are on our...

[1:26:17] We have several sewered lots that we've kicked around the idea of

[1:26:23] selling.

[1:26:26] Most notably the several that we had talked about a couple of months ago on

[1:26:30] Crossland Trail. There's four lots there that there's some floodplain issues

[1:26:36] with them, so there would need to be some lot line reconfiguration, but we never

[1:26:41] really got to the bottom of what we wanted to do, and so I never had it appraised

[1:26:45] yet, because we had others that were on the list.

[1:26:49] What do you think if you do those lot lines, you re-look at the lot lines, how do

[1:26:55] those properties look at possibly selling?

[1:26:59] I think that within reason in Carroll Valley right now, lots that

[1:27:05] have approved sewage planning done on them are selling very quickly.

[1:27:10] I think that it's a good time to sell as long as we don't oversaturate the market.

[1:27:15] Does everybody feel comfortable with him looking at the lines and-

[1:27:19] Let's worry about the ones that are on there right now.

[1:27:20] Yeah.

[1:27:21] It's always good to think ahead.

[1:27:23] Well, and I am. Trust me, I've got a list that sits literally next to my mouse on

[1:27:27] my desk, and I have actually a couple more that some other residents have asked me

[1:27:32] about. I wouldn't have brought this resident one, but they just happened to ask

[1:27:36] about one that you had some flexibility on, so it was easy to work through.

[1:27:43] Okay. Let's take care of these four that remain on the list,

[1:27:49] one, three, four, and five. Do we have a motion to

[1:27:55] approve sending them out for bid?

[1:27:57] I'll make that motion.

[1:27:59] I'll second. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion?

[1:28:05] So moved.

[1:28:06] Hearing done. All in favor say aye.

[1:28:10] Aye.

[1:28:11] Opposed? It's unanimous, Gail.

[1:28:14] Thank you.

[1:28:19] Pickleball court.

[1:28:21] That's a lot of stuff on that memo.

[1:28:27] I would strongly encourage you all to digest it tonight.

[1:28:31] You don't necessarily have to talk about it.

[1:28:34] I do want to make sure I point out not only does our park and rec committee

[1:28:40] seriously kick butt at all the events they're doing, I basically copy and pasted

[1:28:44] their stuff they gave me and put it in this memo.

[1:28:46] I

[1:28:48] added some stuff to it and changed it just a little bit.

[1:28:52] But this was basically the idea of how we could get information this fall

[1:28:57] about usage and everything. That was all their idea, and I did ask if they were

[1:29:01] going to volunteer to make sure that we got that, and they did say that they would

[1:29:05] volunteer to

[1:29:08] get the data that they had mentioned in there.

[1:29:10] I like the way they did the usage. It gives our residents

[1:29:16] ample first

[1:29:18] dibs on that pickleball court. I like that.

[1:29:22] Yeah, I think that there was a lot of looking at what other communities do, how

[1:29:27] they address it, understanding that we do have certain limitations on what we can

[1:29:31] and can't do just because of staff limitations here, and plus it's a public park.

[1:29:37] It's really hard to have gated access or whatever.

[1:29:41] People are going to show up at the park to play sometimes, and we have to have

[1:29:45] understanding of those types of things.

[1:29:47] But I think what this does is basically say, in the fall we're going to see

[1:29:53] how it goes and then before spring comes, we'll take the information from the

[1:29:59] fall and make sure that we've got a plan for the warm weather months of

[1:30:04] 2027.

[1:30:05] When is it getting lined?

[1:30:07] Actually, we had a setback yesterday.

[1:30:10] Apparently the fencing was being shipped in and the truck broke down.

[1:30:16] The truck had an accident. I know something happened to our fencing, so it's not

[1:30:20] going to be delivered now until Thursday.

[1:30:22] So, the crew will be here on Monday the 21st to put it up.

[1:30:26] They

[1:30:28] are estimating two to three days to get the fencing up, and then it'll be painted

[1:30:33] right after that, and it will need

[1:30:36] 48 to 72 hours to cure, and then we can open it.

[1:30:39] So we're still hoping by the end of the month it should be done.

[1:30:42] We'll have it open.

[1:30:44] What kind of grass is there? Is there crabgrass there or anything like that?

[1:30:50] Because the reason why I'm asking that is I've got a driveway that's brand new and

[1:30:55] crabgrass is already prickling through it.

[1:30:57] I don't know how the-

[1:30:59] Oh, that one.

[1:31:00] The pickleball court is a little thicker than your driveway.

[1:31:02] Yeah.

[1:31:02] Oh, no, the driveway's pretty thick.

[1:31:04] No, this is a-

[1:31:05] Oh, that one's about 16 inches.

[1:31:07] Yeah.

[1:31:07] They actually cut all the sod out and everything, so we don't anticipate there

[1:31:13] being an issue with that.

[1:31:14] The only reason why that came to mind is when I saw my driveway, I'm like, "Oh

[1:31:18] gosh, what about that pickleball court?"

[1:31:20] Well, we'll have to focus on the edging too after it's finished to make sure that

[1:31:24] there's a good barrier around it to keep anything from creeping, but we're excited

[1:31:28] to see it get finished.

[1:31:32] ... sooner rather than later.

[1:31:34] Okay, so then in the spring, we'll be able to evaluate how things went in the fall,

[1:31:39] and then council will have to weigh in on the different options-

[1:31:44] Right

[1:31:44] ... that were presented to us.

[1:31:46] That's what my plan in my head is, if you're all okay with that.

[1:31:55] Lake Cave

[1:31:57] Mini Park improvements.

[1:32:00] I really just gave you a little memo because I wanted you to see a picture, because

[1:32:03] I didn't know if you'd made it over. And yes, it's still a work in progress.

[1:32:09] Right.

[1:32:09] Thank you. But

[1:32:12] this is awesome. I can't even begin to describe how well this came out.

[1:32:18] I'm just thrilled with it. So, if you have a chance to stop over and look, we still

[1:32:24] have to add site amenities, so there's going to be benches that are added to that

[1:32:29] platform that you see there. There's going to be a picnic table added, a trash can,

[1:32:34] and a small climbing gym area for little ones.

[1:32:38] And we're going to replace the split rail fence that's there now.

[1:32:41] But what's not in this picture is they also redid the driveway going in, and the

[1:32:47] parking lot's just stone. But it

[1:32:50] hadn't been cared for in quite some time, and I'd like to also point out that

[1:32:57] we'd be remiss if we didn't thank the people who volunteered so many years ago to

[1:33:01] build the original dock, and the person who spearheaded those efforts actually

[1:33:05] still lives across the lake and came over and just told us how wonderful it was and

[1:33:09] was thrilled to see it. So, it was nice to hear from the Develins and of course

[1:33:14] thank them for all their efforts 30 years ago, but also for their vote of

[1:33:18] confidence that this is coming out pretty nice too.

[1:33:21] So, real thrilled with how this is coming up.

[1:33:26] Status on the request regarding what grant monies can be used

[1:33:32] to help with the playground equipment.

[1:33:36] We have all the grant money we're going to get.

[1:33:39] So, at this point, our budget is going to stay right where it was

[1:33:44] originally. So, we have the original county grant, which was a matching grant, so

[1:33:48] we had to put funds toward it. What's really great is, I can't tell

[1:33:54] you the number, but I bet Gail knows it.

[1:33:56] How much money have we spent so far on that project?

[1:34:00] $5,750.

[1:34:01] This was all done for $5,000 because your crew did it.

[1:34:06] That's great.

[1:34:06] So,

[1:34:07] when we started out the project, we had about 21 or $22,000 to put toward it,

[1:34:13] thinking that this was going to be way more than that.

[1:34:15] So, we're going to be able to finish the project

[1:34:21] with the monies that have already been allotted to it, since the crew was able to

[1:34:26] save us so much money on their part of the project.

[1:34:30] So the grant money can be used on playground equipment.

[1:34:34] Yes. That's what it's for.

[1:34:37] Very good.

[1:34:42] Next up is the

[1:34:47] storage facility project.

[1:34:49] Yeah, everything's in line for that.

[1:34:51] The contract was sent out to the contractor, and the contractor and

[1:34:57] Brad organized a start day, and I don't know what it is.

[1:35:01] I do know that it's in October at some point there.

[1:35:06] He only projected it to take four weeks to complete, so the contractor.

[1:35:12] But I think everything's in line. I don't think we have a signed contract yet, but

[1:35:16] I think everything's in line for one.

[1:35:21] Meeting Decorum Subcommittee.

[1:35:24] Oh, I think we had the parallel parking thing.

[1:35:26] Yeah, we skipped the parallel parking thing. That's in the packet.

[1:35:29] It's on the back. It's the last entry.

[1:35:31] Oh, got you.

[1:35:32] There were a couple items that didn't have anything in the packet.

[1:35:34] Oh, okay. Good.

[1:35:37] My apologies.

[1:35:38] Yeah, mine too.

[1:35:40] Meeting Decorum Subcommittee met once so far, had a pretty productive meeting.

[1:35:45] We have another meeting we've got to get together on schedules.

[1:35:48] We're going to meet one more time and expect to have something for council October

[1:35:53] meeting.

[1:36:00] Okay. Youth Reading Program?

[1:36:05] Yep. Upcoming, next week on Monday is the final event for the

[1:36:11] Little Readers and Local Leaders this summer. It's at 6:00.

[1:36:16] Anyone is welcome to attend.

[1:36:19] It consists of a children's story time and theme craft afterwards.

[1:36:23] Thank you very much.

[1:36:24] How's it been going?

[1:36:26] Good.

[1:36:28] Good. All right.

[1:36:30] Thank you. Parallel parking practice area.

[1:36:34] We kind of talked about that a little bit earlier today.

[1:36:38] Yeah. I'll let Sarah talk.

[1:36:41] So, the parallel parking area has been implemented on the Ranch Trail Commons

[1:36:46] parking area,

[1:36:48] and it is up now and able to be used. And I'd like to thank both Dave and the

[1:36:54] Borough Council for helping me to bring this vision to life.

[1:36:58] And yeah, so it's up now.

[1:37:02] We're going to make sure that this one hits social media, and give

[1:37:08] job well done on the idea. If for no other reason, as I've reflected

[1:37:14] in the memo that I typed, what these two young ladies do

[1:37:21] sets the tone for the youth of the community that might come after them.

[1:37:27] So, I think we want to celebrate both of their efforts, and we're going to see to

[1:37:31] it that we can do that. And as I did say before the meeting started, I did make my

[1:37:36] way into that with the code car and not hit anything.

[1:37:44] And actually, Municipal Services probably rolled in that as well, didn't they?

[1:37:48] Yeah, they did. Brad helped me lay out the dimensions and everything.

[1:37:54] But it's almost as if this spot was meant for it.

[1:37:58] I don't really know why when we designed the park, we designed the drop-off area

[1:38:03] there, and it looks like there's a curb, but there really isn't, so you're not

[1:38:05] going to damage your car. It's just a perfect area for it.

[1:38:10] So, hopefully, it gets used. Hopefully, it doesn't

[1:38:14] get stolen,

[1:38:17] because nothing's tied down right now. But we'll see how it goes.

[1:38:20] Hopefully, it gets a lot of positive feedback from the community.

[1:38:23] I'd like to say something about these two young ladies.

[1:38:25] We're lucky to have these young girls.

[1:38:27] They're not just sitting here listening and not participating.

[1:38:32] They've come up with two great ideas in recent months, and I want to congratulate

[1:38:36] you girls. Had an opportunity to speak to both of them from the Wildwood Library a

[1:38:41] few weeks ago. These are two very, very nice young women, and I wish them

[1:38:47] well on their college journey. We'll be losing them too. Good luck, girls.

[1:38:52] Thank you.

[1:38:53] Thank you.

[1:38:54] I propose that we do a social media campaign where all the members of the council

[1:38:58] back into the parallel parking

[1:39:01] on video.

[1:39:03] Police officer present.

[1:39:06] With the Simmons girl standing laughing at all of us.

[1:39:11] Well, Dave, couldn't we put that also up on our webpage?

[1:39:15] Yeah.

[1:39:15] In addition to the social media.

[1:39:19] Right now, I can't update the webpage at all.

[1:39:22] Yeah, it's an update.

[1:39:23] Because of what's in the background.

[1:39:27] No, I probably can. I'll check with them first before I do it.

[1:39:30] But

[1:39:32] we will have a new website soon.

[1:39:37] I don't know the exact date yet. It's still in negotiation.

[1:39:43] But I'll see if I can get it on the website.

[1:39:49] And we received reports from Municipal Services, code violation, permit

[1:39:55] fee, wastewater treatment, and I'd like to thank

[1:40:00] each of our

[1:40:02] employees who make those reports

[1:40:06] available to us and send out my thanks.

[1:40:13] Any new business?

[1:40:15] I had a resident ask me a couple questions that I told him I would bring up here

[1:40:21] this evening.

[1:40:25] Resident named Suzy asked about electric streetlights in Carroll Valley.

[1:40:31] Asked where are they

[1:40:34] Streetlights?

[1:40:35] That's what she said.

[1:40:36] Well, it looks like there's about a

[1:40:41] $2,000 cost for them per month.

[1:40:45] Tiffany's shaking her head yes.

[1:40:46] Yeah.

[1:40:47] There's streetlights all over the borough.

[1:40:50] We spend about $35,000 a year on them.

[1:40:55] I thought it was an odd question, but I thought I'd bring it up.

[1:40:57] Yeah. To answer your question, I'd have to give you an extremely long list.

[1:41:03] Take one out from my house. I'd be happy with that.

[1:41:05] Yeah. You can take one out behind my lot.

[1:41:09] No, I think she was more questioning-

[1:41:12] Really hard because of the paints

[1:41:13] ... how much money was being spent the month.

[1:41:15] A lot

[1:41:16] That's why I got it.

[1:41:17] There's a lot of streetlights.

[1:41:20] Yeah. Well, it's my-

[1:41:21] Yeah. It's probably more than $2,000 a month. It's probably closer to three.

[1:41:24] If she's listening then please-

[1:41:27] By the way, a couple of years ago, we did set out to eliminate some that were

[1:41:31] unnecessary, and of all the ones that were taken down, I think every one of them

[1:41:36] was put back up after the residents complained and came before this board again.

[1:41:40] So we gave up on that.

[1:41:44] She can take them.

[1:41:46] And also, I can't remember if it was the same lady or another lady.

[1:41:49] There was two ladies pinging me.

[1:41:53] They asked about the location of the new nature trail, and I thought I knew where

[1:41:58] it was, but I wasn't exactly sure what she was talking about, so I said I'd bring

[1:42:04] it up. Where's that?

[1:42:06] The borough owns a parcel. Well, the original parcel was about 20 acres.

[1:42:11] It borders Skylark Trail,

[1:42:14] what would be the northern side of Skylark Trail, and the other side of it is

[1:42:20] behind the properties on Deer Trail into Spring.

[1:42:26] Hoping they're listening. Also, that same person made the comment that the current

[1:42:32] existing trail in the ranch section is being destroyed by

[1:42:38] ATVs. Is there a problem over there that we-

[1:42:41] ATVs on our property?

[1:42:43] That's what-

[1:42:45] I've not been told of anything like that.

[1:42:47] Tiffany's shaking her head yes again.

[1:42:49] No.

[1:42:50] We have ATV issues in the ranch section, and Cliff would've been the person to ask

[1:42:53] that question because they don't tell me.

[1:42:54] No, they do ride down there in that section. We do know that.

[1:42:58] But I don't think in the park. The only trail we have down there is the oval around

[1:43:02] the soccer fields.

[1:43:03] Talking about in the woods back off there?

[1:43:06] Oh, yeah.

[1:43:06] They've got a forest.

[1:43:07] No, I said the only borough-owned trail is...

[1:43:12] Well, maybe they meant the roads by saying trails.

[1:43:15] She said

[1:43:17] the trail is being destroyed by ATVs.

[1:43:20] Yeah. If you go back, that's not really a nature trail.

[1:43:22] That's where the roads were initially-

[1:43:24] Okay

[1:43:25] ... that were never put in, but if you go back there, there's people riding them.

[1:43:28] Well, we'll pass along the concern to the police department because-

[1:43:30] That's the reason I brought it up because I figured maybe the police would tackle

[1:43:34] this.

[1:43:34] I do know that they've been

[1:43:37] dealing with issues related to off-road vehicles there, but I don't know much about

[1:43:42] it.

[1:43:42] Right.

[1:43:42] She's talking about how there's a trail that goes back down by the creek, out into

[1:43:48] the woods.

[1:43:52] That's where.

[1:43:55] Yeah.

[1:43:56] The one that-

[1:43:56] It's hard to tell since our roads are also trails to know exactly.

[1:43:59] Yeah.

[1:43:59] But so if they give you more information, we'll gladly go to them about our answer.

[1:44:03] We better watch it because I pointed them to the

[1:44:06] meeting, and hopefully they'll respond.

[1:44:12] Okay.

[1:44:22] Do we have a-

[1:44:24] Oh, yeah.

[1:44:25] Need to open to the public?

[1:44:28] Need the three of you?

[1:44:31] All three of you?

[1:44:33] Everybody.

[1:44:33] I do.

[1:44:34] Okay.

[1:44:35] Well, okay.

[1:44:36] I can try.

[1:44:38] Again, Tiffany Bryce, 59 Montrose.

[1:44:41] I just want to thank the council, the manager, and everyone that was involved in

[1:44:47] bringing back up that proposal to save taxpayer money, and thank you for listening

[1:44:52] to us. I think there's a lot of misinformation out there that you guys don't care,

[1:44:56] and you just make up and do whatever you want, but that really showed that if

[1:45:01] people do show up, you do listen. So thank everyone that was involved in putting

[1:45:05] that back out there and making it more visible to save taxpayer money.

[1:45:09] Well, thank you.

[1:45:10] Thank you

[1:45:10] ... for coming in and

[1:45:13] discussing the issue with us because we saved a lot of money.

[1:45:19] We do want to spend the money wisely, and...

[1:45:26] Since I'm the only council, I had a friend recently ask me basically what you were

[1:45:31] just saying, "Do the council members really care, or do they just do what they

[1:45:36] want?" And I said, "I can assure you that everybody that is on the council

[1:45:43] has the best interest of the borough at heart, and I believe that 100%." And I

[1:45:48] didn't know any of these folks before I got on the council last year, except for

[1:45:53] Bruce. I knew casually.

[1:45:57] You're the most involved council that I've had in 22 years by far.

[1:46:03] To a member, everybody's involved.

[1:46:05] Congratulations to you guys for really listening to us all.

[1:46:11] Tell them some more good stuff, Dave.

[1:46:12] That's it.

[1:46:14] That's the extent of my warm and fuzzy today.

[1:46:16] Oh, boy.

[1:46:18] Before we break down the hub, let's adjourn this.

[1:46:23] Okay.

[1:46:23] I'll make a motion we adjourn.

[1:46:25] I'll second.

[1:46:26] We have a motion and a second. Any discussion on that, or are we just going to do

[1:46:32] it?

[1:46:32] Let's do it.

[1:46:33] All in favor say aye.

[1:46:34] Aye.

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Carroll Valley Borough Council Meeting - 09/15/2026

Transcript