[0:03] Great. >> Okay. I'll now call the regular meeting

[0:05] of annual council for January 21st, 2026 to order. Please, can I get a motion to

[0:10] approve the agenda? >> I councelor move to approve the agenda

[0:14] with removal. Oops. Never mind. Good. The next one.

[0:19] » I councelor Fox second. >> Any questions, comments?

[0:24] All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. I. Any opposed? Motion carried. Thank

[0:31] you. Item three, consent section. Can I get a motion, please?

[0:35] » I, Councelor High, move to adopt the consent section with the removal of the

[0:39] upper Kings Kings Clear Fire Department report to be moved to business rising 7A

[0:45] and with the removal of the CAO report to be moved to 7D.

[0:50] » A second. >> I councelor Clea second.

[0:54] » All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. contrary minded. Motion carried.

[0:59] Thank you, council. Any disclosures tonight?

[1:03] I'll take that as an uh no other public input or inquiries.

[1:08] Moving on to item six. We have presentations. We have two presentations

[1:11] tonight. Uh Mr. uh Keegan Webster from Canada Post and John Gilbert from Kings

[1:17] uh talking about the Kings tree nursery water issue. So, I'm going to ask Mr.

[1:21] Webster from Canada Post to go, please.

[1:28] Oh, I I've got no no PowerPoint ready. All right,

[1:32] » it's making it easy. >> Yeah, keep things simple.

[1:35] » Uh, okay.

[1:39] So, thank you all for having me here tonight. Uh, as mentioned, I'm Keegan

[1:43] Webster. I'm here representing the Canadian Union of Postal Workers. I'm

[1:46] the second vice president uh of the Frederickton and Normaka Loco, which

[1:51] covers obviously the Hanwell area. We cover all the way from Harvey up to

[1:55] Dotown and then a little bit east and west of Frederickton as well. Um so

[1:59] mainly what I want to talk to you tonight uh is about the proposed cuts uh

[2:04] coming to Canada Post. Proposed um well it's been a tumultuous year for us as

[2:12] I'm sure anyone who's paying attention is aware. Um but basically in September

[2:18] uh the minister in charge of Canada Post announced significant alterations or

[2:24] what would becoming significant alterations to the way we uh serve our

[2:28] communities and the way we work. Um so there's there's two main ones that I

[2:33] want to touch on tonight. I'll try and be brief. Um the conversion to community

[2:38] mailboxes and the ending of doorto-d dooror delivery um is a a big problem

[2:42] for us. Um, and I know that especially in rural communities, there's a lot of

[2:47] people who already have community mailboxes, right? You might have a small

[2:50] one at the end of your street or something along those lines. Um, but

[2:55] paired with the the idea behind conversion to CNBs and elimination of

[3:01] door-to-d dooror delivery is the elimination of jobs. Um, so just because

[3:05] you already have a community mailbox does not mean your mail can't be uh less

[3:10] accessible than it is right now. because with those same reports um the the

[3:16] Kaplan report from the Industrial Inquiry Commission last year after our

[3:19] initial strike uh and then the uh assessment from Minister Lightbound um

[3:25] the goal and the Canada Post uh like annual assessment of what like their

[3:30] fiveyear plans, their 10-year plans, they're to basically cut half the

[3:34] workforce over the next 10 years and you have to make significant alterations to

[3:38] service st standards in order to do that. So imag like if you had a CMBB

[3:43] right now, you might have, you know, one at the end of your street or something

[3:47] along those lines that would be transformed into, you know, a large bank

[3:52] of CNBs extending from uh me to the mayor potentially that is now suddenly

[3:58] instead of a 5minute walk away, it's a 20-minute drive away. And this is

[4:02] reality for a lot of people in um rural Newfoundland, for example. But this

[4:06] could be coming here as really the only means of cutting down jobs in a in a

[4:12] significant manner on the delivery side of things. Um, and I I think that that

[4:16] is really a shame and I think it's basically shortsighted uh because we see

[4:21] as much as we see a decline in letter mail, which you know on the union side

[4:25] we've been talking about for years as and talking about ways that we need to

[4:29] be countering that and not just by cutting our services down to nothing um

[4:33] and selling off our public assets to private companies. Um but there's been a

[4:38] a spike in parcel uh parcel volumes and deliveries. But the problem is that we

[4:43] are not capturing any of those in instead that's being left to that work

[4:47] is being done by Amazon or other fly by night companies that one they're paying

[4:53] like terrible wages. Uh people are not able to get by on them. I see some of

[4:57] those guys working as I'm doing my route. I'm a letter carrier in

[5:00] Frederickton. Their jobs are miserable and they're not able to provide quality

[5:04] service, right? because they have so much when they're paid, you know, per

[5:08] parcel or something like that, they are constantly in a rush. You're forced to

[5:12] be throwing parcels at doors or leaving them at the end of the driveway to get

[5:15] run over as they're squealing out to make the next delivery.

[5:19] Um, so one, I I think that's a big problem and and something that would

[5:23] affect uh rural communities uh in particular. The other uh thing that we

[5:28] are emphasizing with this uh campaign against these cuts is uh against the

[5:33] closure of post offices in particular rural post offices. Now, as far as I'm

[5:38] aware, Hanwell does not actually have a Canada Post Post Office within its

[5:42] boundaries, but you know, there's one in uh New Maryland. There's ones that are

[5:47] close and accessible to you, and a lot of these uh the protections are being

[5:51] lifted, right? There was uh from the '90s until recently a moratorium on

[5:56] closing the rural post offices. Uh that has been has been framed as being

[6:01] lifted. I don't want I don't want to put these things in stone as of yet, but

[6:04] this is what the minister and this is what Canada Post wants to do is to be

[6:07] able to close these things down. Um, and even in our own negotiations, uh, there

[6:13] were a certain about 492 post offices that were protected by the collective

[6:18] agreement. As part of our own negotiations, we've let 100 off that

[6:23] list. Um, I think that's frustrating. I, you know, did not agree with that

[6:27] decision by our negotiators, but you're sometimes you're in a bind. uh you've

[6:32] got to make difficult decisions. But what I'm at here for basically is asking

[6:36] for help from, you know, community and municipal governments that are able to

[6:41] speak in the other ear of the federal government because they're they're tired

[6:44] of hearing from us. Um and I think they want to hear about what these cuts can

[6:50] do uh how how they can impact small communities um across the country.

[6:56] And uh in particular, I think the emphasis on making sure that there is an

[7:01] actual public mandate review um like a review of Canada Post mandate and the

[7:06] Canada Post Act and not just one that's dictated by a couple ministers um and uh

[7:13] backed up by private equity. So, uh, I'm aware that I I we wouldn't be able to

[7:18] discuss a resolution here, but I would like to, uh, propose a resolution for

[7:23] you to discuss at your next town council meeting, as well as, uh, provide some

[7:27] information to help you do some further research on this. I know I'm trying to

[7:30] squeeze a lot into a short presentation, but, uh, some people like to take their

[7:34] time on those sort of things, but if you wouldn't mind, I'd just like to read out

[7:38] some of the short bits from a resolution just to get an idea of of what we're

[7:43] looking for. Um we have had some other municipalities in the area sign on to

[7:48] something like this already. But um whereas the federal government has

[7:54] announced drastic cuts to our treasured public post office, killing good jobs,

[7:57] ending door-to-door delivery, removing the moratorium and protection on post

[8:01] office closures and changes to delivery standards for the mail. Whereas the

[8:05] federal government has done this without meaningful public consultation and has

[8:09] made this decision unilaterally prior to a planned Canada Post Corporation review

[8:14] from October 1, 2025 to March 31, 2026, effectively eliminating any opportunity

[8:20] for input from the people who will be most affected.

[8:24] Whereas thousands of postal jobs will be destroyed and 4 million households will

[8:28] lose door-to-door delivery most within the next few years. Whereas post office

[8:33] closures could degrade or completely remove service in many communities.

[8:37] Whereas these cuts will hurt seniors and people with disabilities in particular.

[8:42] Whereas it is crucial for the government and mandate review to hear the views

[8:45] from municipalities on key issues including maintaining Canada Post as a

[8:49] public service, the importance of maintaining the moratorium on post

[8:52] office closures, improving the can Canadian postal service charter, keeping

[8:57] daily home mail and parcel delivery to the door, improving postal banking,

[9:01] greening Canada post, adding EV charging stations, adding food delivery,

[9:06] improving delivery to rural, remote, and indigenous communities and developing

[9:10] services to assist people with disabilities. abilities to help older

[9:12] Canadians to remain in their homes for as long as possible and at the same time

[9:17] helping to ensure that good jobs stay in their communities and the Canada Post

[9:21] can remain financially self-sustaining. Therefore, be it resolved that Hanwell

[9:26] rural municipality uh formerly writes the Minister of Government, Transporta

[9:30] uh transformation, public works and procurement Joel Lightbound to demand an

[9:34] immediate halt to the service cuts and to look instead for ways to increase

[9:37] services and revenues in other areas such as those as noted above. Demand

[9:41] that no mandate review takes place until Canada Post returns to stabilized

[9:44] operations and demand that any review of Canada Post and the Canadian Postal

[9:48] Service Charter must be done through a full and thorough transparent public

[9:52] review, including public hearings with all key stakeholders in every region of

[9:57] Canada. Therefore, be it resolved that Hanwell will make a written submission

[10:01] and/or participate in hearings to provide input in the upcoming mandate

[10:04] review of Canada Post. Now, that's a lot. Um, but just to be clear because I

[10:09] I think I've had some questions on this before. The last whereas where it's

[10:13] talking about all the services like EV charging and things like that, those are

[10:17] things that we currently don't offer. But the framing here is that we have

[10:21] this large network of infrastructure across the country. And these are some

[10:25] things that we could offer to improve uh service to Canadians and, you know,

[10:30] improve revenue streams and make this a a continued viable uh project, basically

[10:36] a national project. And that's one of the main things we're framing this as is

[10:40] that you know the current federal government is talking a lot about nation

[10:43] building projects and stuff like that. And um and I I think that's good but I

[10:47] think the focus should be on like nation building projects that we need to

[10:51] maintain like Canada Post. Um and letting it oify and ro away I think uh

[10:57] does us a disservice and disunites us as a nation. Um so I tried to be brief but

[11:02] if you've got any questions fire away I'd be happy to answer. Okay. Thank you,

[11:07] Mr. Webster. Any questions for Mr. Webster while he's here?

[11:10] » Do we have time for questions? >> Couple not not a lot of time, but some.

[11:13] » Okay. But I won't talk to you too much then. Okay. Um um full disclosure, I

[11:19] could talk to you for hours because I also work for a career company. I'm also

[11:23] the union rep for our company. And um >> Teamsters.

[11:27] » Hm. >> Teamsters.

[11:28] » No, Steel Workers. >> Oh, okay. And uh so anyway um but I

[11:33] understand a lot of what you're talking about and I understand a lot of where

[11:36] you're coming from because we have our company has certainly benefited every

[11:41] time you go on strike

[11:45] » and and overworked me right to death. Um but yet I I I see where you're coming

[11:50] from and I I tend to be very sympathetic with you and I and I see um because I'm

[11:54] quite familiar with the industry. Um I I see the value of Candipost and um ma

[12:01] mainly because the one that I work for is not like purator. I don't work for

[12:05] them for ICS and we don't go everywhere and I see the issue that we have here um

[12:11] with just delivering our um um our newsletters. I've also run several

[12:16] elections. There's a real need for that small non-addressed admail that you

[12:21] cannot send. Like I I I have to I wouldn't I couldn't send my own with my

[12:24] company. >> Yeah. you know, for example. Um, so

[12:28] I'm very sympathetic to your cause. Um, I'm also quite interested in the things

[12:33] you said about um, you know, having new services and new new whatever. So

[12:39] anyway, um, it's not so much as a questions, it's more the fact that I'd

[12:42] like to know more. If you can send us stuff, I'd be more interested in taking

[12:46] it for everybody have time to look at your proposals and that kind of thing

[12:50] and and take it ser take it quite seriously. So if you

[12:53] » Yeah, we've got lots of materials and stuff I can send forward as well as I

[12:57] can send the text of the resolution just so everyone's not

[12:59] » Yeah, that would be very helpful. >> Sure. Everyone's got a photography.

[13:02] » All right. Any other questions, comments?

[13:05] » Just curious. You said that other municipalities have already put forth a

[13:09] motion like this somewhat of this. Which which municipalities in our region?

[13:13] » Uh so I talked to Sunbury York South, which is not a they don't have a

[13:18] functioning council right now. They just have a supervisor. They're not privy to

[13:22] all the >> but uh but they have approved a

[13:26] resolution through whatever their means are and I gave a similar presentation to

[13:30] uh Nashwalk a couple weeks ago and I think they are I think they meet tonight

[13:35] or sometime soon. So I don't know the outcome of that but it was a I would say

[13:40] generally a positive response and then I sent them some materials and they

[13:44] discussed and looked at them and >> so no one's actually made a motion yet.

[13:48] This is just in discussions. Uh well the Sunbridge South one but that's just a

[13:53] guy in an office so right but but yeah uh and I think yeah so it's still just

[14:00] in discussions for the test region. Thanks.

[14:03] » All right well thank you Mr. Webster for certainly an interesting presentation.

[14:07] Uh we'll we'll see where council goes from here.

[14:10] » Okay. Sweet. Thanks very much. Um >> Mr. Webster if you could send that

[14:14] motion um forward to um the clerk. sent the other one. Um, then we'll have

[14:21] it for >> and I'll send some uh PDFs of like

[14:24] responses to the industrial inquiry commission and stuff like that.

[14:28] » Not to be rude, but I have to leave cuz I have a curling gift.

[14:32] » Yeah. First things first. >> And he curls, too.

[14:36] » Are you my long lost son? Thank you. >> He's wearing a blue hoodie.

[14:41] » He's wearing a blue hoodie. >> Thank you.

[14:43] » All right. >> Maybe a long lost nephew.

[14:45] » Maybe. Here we go. >> Okay, moving on. We now have uh Mr.

[14:49] Gilbert and he wants to talk about the water issues at the tree nursery. So

[14:53] I'll give him the voting. >> Well, first of all, thank you very much

[14:56] for being here and it's great to be in an island doing we're waiting for our

[15:01] signs.

[15:05] » They're coming. They're coming. That's >> uh just very quickly, can everybody see

[15:10] that? >> Yeah. Okay, great.

[15:11] » All right. So, so we all know last year like I didn't mow my lawn since I think

[15:16] the middle of June and and it was a bad and a dry year and we get the message

[15:20] from the government on the right hand side saying every drop counts, you know,

[15:23] don't wash your cars and all that kind of stuff. On our backyards is the tree

[15:27] nursery. We're in Garden View Drive and the streets over from that. And the tree

[15:32] nursery's been there and we've been there for a long time. But the tree

[15:36] nursery recently in the last two years got a huge federal grant on the Trudeau

[15:41] 2 billion tree um project which Carney cancelled. But they bought two large

[15:48] large green houses and this summer they didn't have enough water to run them. So

[15:52] their ponds dried up and Maple Glenn Brook which feeds the ponds pretty well

[15:56] dried up. And so they're struggling. and they have 12

[16:01] wells in total. Um, I live on the edge to the left of that

[16:06] picture is the tree nursery and my house is there. I put a pool in two years ago

[16:10] and I like to think of volumes um, a cubic meter of water kind of doesn't

[16:14] mean much to me. So, my pool is 29 cubic meters and they're planning on

[16:18] increasing the tree nursery water withdrawal from that aquifer to at least

[16:23] 19 of those pools a day. And there's no real u science or no real studies yet as

[16:30] to whether that water is really there. So we're all quite concerned in uh in

[16:34] island view and we don't know where how far the aquifer goes in either

[16:37] direction. Could go over to Chuck Ever's farm could go over you know well past

[16:42] ours we don't know. Um and there doesn't seem to be a lot in the EIA. So the tree

[16:47] nursery had to file an EIA when you anybody who withdraws over 5 cubic

[16:52] meters a day has to file an EIA. So we got the We really didn't get the idea.

[16:57] We got this little piece of paper in our mailboxes

[17:01] left. But anyway, it was in the middle of a a a work um it wasn't a strike, but

[17:06] it's rotating strike. So, I'm not sure we're already done it right away. Uh and

[17:09] some people didn't get it at all. Uh there's um the tree nursery. That little

[17:14] arrow goes to my friend Daryl Bar's house. It's showing uh they're putting

[17:18] they put in two uh test wells. Um this isn't showing sorry on the screen, but

[17:24] the bottom of that uh arrow is one of the test wells. The other one is would

[17:28] be located at the top left and those are going to be um pump tested sometime in

[17:34] the next two weeks. Good place to put them right before our subdivision.

[17:39] Uh however, there's a couple of of issues.

[17:42] I'll summarize that for you, but basically a large commercial well

[17:46] extraction can have a number of things. It can deplete the aquifer if they're

[17:50] taking too much out. Uh there can be well interference when you've got wells

[17:54] in the subdivision and you've got something that's pumping a lot of water

[17:58] um not too far away from us. And um there's also the aquifer from

[18:02] replenishing. We're not getting a lot of water this fall and this winter to

[18:06] replenish that aquifer. Um so we're we're concerned about that for sure.

[18:11] That's a little small, but I don't this is the only kind you really need to

[18:15] worry about. So this is the wells they currently own. They're planning on

[18:20] increasing um either by depth or by bore size of the wells. And it's quite a

[18:25] spread, but anywhere from 95 to 205 cubic meters a day to the proposed 250

[18:31] to 545. That's a lot. That's more than double.

[18:35] And nobody really knows what their wells will produce because of this aquifer.

[18:40] This is one of the problems. Uh you get what's called uh well interference, but

[18:46] also coner depression. So when you sink a well, you drop the acryer almost like

[18:50] a reverse trumpet. So the acryer goes down. The deeper you go, the steeper

[18:56] that curve is. And what's called a well interference is when you get two wells

[19:00] close together, it more than doubles the um the drain on the aquifer. And I

[19:06] circle these because I'm using these kind of this was two wells but I'm using

[19:09] this as the wells in the tree nursery which are fairly close together and the

[19:14] wells in our subdivision which are fairly close together. And when you have

[19:18] the two together one aquifer you get this doubling and you get a bigger

[19:22] counter depression. So that's one of the things that we're a little concerned

[19:26] about. Um this is from the EIA and the big

[19:32] thing that there's two wells there now. They were drilled before Christmas. They

[19:36] plan on testing those within the next week or so and then they plan on

[19:40] decommissioning them and those wells should stay there. There's two of them.

[19:44] They're down at least 300 ft. We feel they should put some monitoring devices

[19:48] on those. So as they draw more water, we know at what point it's going to be too

[19:53] low to get to the wells in our subdivision. And that's something we

[19:57] have to get to them right away. The other thing that we were uh I'll

[20:03] show this one later, but anyway, it's from the uh it's from the uh report.

[20:07] They're required to do a number of things for the public involvement

[20:11] program meetings or workshops appearing at community groups or regular meetings,

[20:15] council meeting like this. Uh all we got was a flyer and the flyer said that you

[20:20] have to have your comments to us by November 27th. That's it. Closed. And we

[20:26] asked them about that and um Terry sent them a letter. They sent back said,

[20:30] "Nope, we're not going uh any further than comments that were in by November

[20:35] 27th." So Terry sent a letter to them and this

[20:40] came back and it says basically that the fact that the nursery oper operations

[20:45] haven't changed, there's no increase in the size of the nursery in the boundary

[20:49] of it and they're looking for a safe operating yield. We believe it's not

[20:53] necessary at this time to extend the consultation period or hold public

[20:56] meetings. We feel that's unfair because there's very little information coming

[21:00] to us. Uh we're, you know, we've got that they had the EIA online. It

[21:05] disappeared offline for a long time. It came back up last week for some strange

[21:10] reason. >> Oh, that would be the GMBB website.

[21:12] That's likely coincidental. That's a whole other story. But

[21:16] » anyway, we couldn't access it. >> Yeah.

[21:17] » So, that was where our information was. Uh I did a little sluting myself. Uh you

[21:24] can uh there's a company in Ontario, the Huskins laboratory, and you can get a

[21:30] probe and you can drop it down the well and it will tell you exactly how much

[21:34] water is in that water column. And that is the fancy one. It's not that

[21:39] expensive. It's 5,000 bucks, but a well cost 20. And it will send the

[21:43] information by the hour, by the day, by the week, whatever to the cloud. and you

[21:48] can have a look of actually what status your aquifer is at. I would think the

[21:52] tree nursery would want to have that, but they're planning on filling these

[21:56] two um test wells in and not converting them to observation wells.

[22:01] This was what uh was done by the WSP, another consultant company from New

[22:06] Maryland, and they just got three new wells in 2000. And I read through their

[22:10] report and this is just the key points. So they had an aquifer recharge rate was

[22:16] calculated that under prolonged dry conditions as of last summer there's a

[22:20] higher potential risk of increased draw downs and possibly overpumping if water

[22:23] levels are left unchecked. Groundwater leveling logging devices were installed

[22:27] in the observation wells for continuous level logging. They put um observation

[22:32] wells around their three new pumps for the village plus four new ones. water

[22:39] level logging will en provisions will enable provisions for automated well

[22:42] pump shutdown at a predetermined low liquid level and they got public

[22:46] meetings. So I think what we're concerned about is we would like to have

[22:50] something you know between the tree nursery and ourselves that gives us a

[22:55] water level check on that aquifer and if it goes below a certain level where

[22:59] where wells start to dry up in the subdivision that they have to do

[23:02] something else. They can pump from the river. They can uh tap in. They can

[23:07] enlarge their ponds. Um you know, all kinds of different things. But at some

[23:12] point, we don't want to be the test where our wells go around, we go, we're

[23:17] drawing our wells and oh, we better do something. We want them to be proactive

[23:20] rather than reactive. Uh so the key messages for us are

[23:24] immediately don't fill in the test wells. Keep those as monitoring wells.

[23:29] So there's two right in the right place. They want to take the caps off. They

[23:34] want to fill up those cement and seal them. And I know why. Because you don't

[23:38] want uh if they're low to the ground, if there was an oil spill, it could go down

[23:42] and pollute the aquifer. But these are already in and they're like your well at

[23:44] home. They're they're got a at least a foot or two above. We want prevention

[23:49] rather than mitigation. Don't let us be the guinea pigs. Uh the idea to mitigate

[23:56] demand. So they could enlarge the holding ponds. They could pump from the

[23:59] river. They could draw from Macintoshbrook because they're drawing

[24:01] now from Maple Glennbrook, but they may be able to take a bit more water and

[24:05] store it. Really expect a public information

[24:08] meeting if Grant if New Maryland can have one and other communities can have

[24:12] one. Why can't we? And could be hosted perhaps by you folks or you know down at

[24:18] the fire hall. I think that you said that Johnny's um

[24:21] » at the >> gas fire down there in the restaurant

[24:24] was a place that they they volunteered. >> And again, some ideas from the new

[24:28] Maryland process. >> So So that's it. We're not against the

[24:32] trainership getting more water. If it's there, take it. But worried, we're

[24:37] worried about they don't know how much is there. They don't know their demand.

[24:41] And that stuff's not clear in the consultants report. And we've had sort

[24:45] of limited access. So Terry, we met with uh Cindy Miles yesterday or on Monday

[24:51] and she said that all of a sudden they've opened back up the comment um

[24:55] period to February >> 25th

[24:58] » 25th. So all of a sudden it's back open.

[25:03] » Um >> so that's a good thing.

[25:05] » That's a good thing. >> But you know was the fact that they

[25:08] heard that we were kind of rattling around a little bit did that make them

[25:10] do it? I don't know. But um so anyway, we're just uh we're looking for your

[25:15] support as the new members of the village. And again, like if the water's

[25:19] there, no issues, but we're worried and and uh at least one or two neighbors um

[25:26] let me just go back to show you this situation. So, the person that

[25:33] lives um right about here has not a deep oil pump, but a flight pump in their

[25:37] house and they have the the column down and they noticed theirs was cycling

[25:42] faster this year. I live I live here. My neighbor asked me in the September, he

[25:48] said, "Is your water a little bit dirty in your toilet?" And I said, "No, but I

[25:52] do have a filter on mine." And when I look at the filter, I had changed it

[25:56] around the 1st of September. It was as dirty at the end of September as it was

[25:59] for 3 months. >> So, it's starting to get down to the

[26:03] point where my pump spins up. It's It's rounding up a little bit more. So, my

[26:07] well's 150 ft. There are also some people like Daryl that have geothermal

[26:11] heating pumps >> pumps. He's down 300 ft. Um, and there's

[26:16] several of those around. So, those folks really don't want to dry out. It's their

[26:19] heat source. >> No heat.

[26:21] » I'd freeze up. So, anyway, we're we're we've had great support from Terry.

[26:27] She's made calls. She's written a few letters and and that kind of thing. Uh

[26:31] our biggest concern right now is we have to get the DNR and not let them fill

[26:34] those test wells um in and use them for observation wells. And then after that,

[26:40] we'll see what happens after the pump tests. They're going to do a 72-hour

[26:44] pump test on that at this time of year. I know it's dry. It hasn't had much of a

[26:49] chance to recharge, but it would have been nice to do it last year in

[26:54] September when it was super dry. We're we're still in a drought.

[26:58] » Yeah, >> for sure.

[26:59] » According to the government, we're it's a one in 150 year drought that we

[27:03] experience. >> So anyway, we you know, for a number of

[27:07] reasons, um you know, just your house value, you don't have good water. It's

[27:10] hard to sell your house. Um not planning on moving, but once a once a community

[27:15] gets a reputation for not having a good water source, like everybody knows about

[27:18] Carlile Road, you got to go down 700 feet to get water. And there's other

[27:22] villages around that are having to do boil water or things like that.

[27:27] We don't want that to happen to oursel for sure and our property values. So, um

[27:31] I can take any questions that you folks have. That's it.

[27:36] » Yeah. >> So, John

[27:38] » Yeah. >> Cindy Miles.

[27:39] » Yep. >> Um met you guys reached out to Cindy.

[27:43] » She did did a meeting. Yep. >> She's a fellow uh resident of the board

[27:48] » right beside the trainer. >> Absolutely. Mhm.

[27:50] » Um, did did Cindy have any personal comments or anything like that that you

[27:54] can share or or >> Yeah, she was very open. She was very

[27:57] helpful. She took a bunch of notes at the same show I showed here.

[28:00] » Yeah. >> She asked for a copy of the show and

[28:03] then she said that she was going to get to the Department of Environment

[28:06] » um to uh get some answers to some of the questions and then she back to us. I

[28:12] know that the conversation that I had with her uh it would have been just

[28:16] before I guess the the original consultation timeline ended.

[28:20] » Yeah. 12. >> Yeah, exactly. Um

[28:26] it was it was felt that uh the request for an extension um would

[28:35] have been would have been met. Uh but the other requests that we had put out

[28:41] there I think after you and I talked and I talked to another a few other uh

[28:45] neighbors the idea of you know having water drawn off the river uh you know

[28:52] didn't necessarily uh go over well because of uh what happens downstream to

[28:58] which then you know if something happens to the downstream properties then it's

[29:03] you know it's it's and it's instigated by an upstream property or draw that

[29:07] it's an issue. And it was rather I guess it was uh I found it quite uh quite you

[29:15] know comical on some level that it's it's okay to do it on a well but it's

[29:20] not okay to do it on uh on a water source like a river.

[29:23] » Um a question I have is based on based on the conversation you would have had

[29:30] with her um did she give any inclination into alternatives or was it just open

[29:35] for open for dialogue? Yeah, >> that was it

[29:38] » for dialogue. Yeah. >> And and and what was the date again?

[29:41] » On Monday. >> This Monday.

[29:42] » Yeah, we were there Monday. >> Sorry. Open till date.

[29:46] » February 25th. >> 25th.

[29:48] » 25th. >> I think if you in your head those 19

[29:52] swimming pools in my backyard. I think that's a buck a drop in the bucket of

[29:56] the St. John River. >> Absolutely.

[29:58] » And they will need permits. No question. The same as when you withdraw from any

[30:01] anything. But I don't think that that will hurt St. never

[30:05] » no >> any.

[30:07] » So, so they got to have some options for us. So, if they test it and they say,

[30:12] "Well, >> looks like we can withdraw 480.

[30:18] You know, I'm not so sure because the consultant and the well driller are

[30:21] going to make it as good as possible for them. They want to take as much as they

[30:24] can." >> So, I would almost argue that I'd like

[30:28] to see third party review. And I know that you folks have uh

[30:32] somebody looking at the water situation in the the village I think and maybe

[30:37] that's a good test case right there as to you know my interview.

[30:42] » Yeah. >> Was there a separate hydro geological

[30:46] report done specific? >> Not yet.

[30:49] » Not yet. They've been pumping for years over there.

[30:53] » It's an older subdivision. I mean there hadn't been a lot of new houses in the

[30:55] island. a few right here and there, but but it's always been, you know, no

[31:00] issues. U I've been there since 1990. I think in '92 we had a really dry year

[31:05] and back then it was kind of all my lawn green and I watered my lawn for 3 weeks

[31:09] straight with the sprinkler and never turned off the water. Tons of water.

[31:13] » Not sure that's the case now. >> So,

[31:16] » well, you might have noticed we put out advisories last year, last during the

[31:20] during the for people to try to conserve as much water as they can. So certainly

[31:24] concern of the handle council council. >> It seemed to me like something like that

[31:29] should almost be using this isn't enough to do you guys nothing to do with it.

[31:33] She almost using like a mini water tower pumping from the river when the level is

[31:37] high and gravity feeding that to when they need it and then as it hurts a

[31:40] certain same way water tower works in in a town or a city, right? When it hits a

[31:44] certain level it repumps. that that would be a much more logical way to do

[31:48] this than pumping millions of gallons of water from up for just it's much more

[31:53] sustainable and goes on. >> People probably don't know it, but

[31:57] there's a big uh underground reservoir up at the end of at the turn there where

[32:02] you come out Deerwood swing on to Marion. There's a fire hydrant there

[32:06] actually, >> but they they pump that full of for well

[32:09] water. They pump that full during the evening or during the night and then it

[32:12] it supplies the down, you know, down the hill people for water that are on the

[32:16] sitting water. >> I mean, makes an excellent idea. Pump it

[32:19] pump it from the river into a tower or reservoir or whatever and then use that.

[32:23] » I think they have a small system outside, but that's just for one

[32:26] greenhouse. >> And u they do have two goodsized ponds.

[32:30] Uh the bigger pond has a lot of area that it could be expanded to.

[32:35] » So they could fill that in the spring when there's lots of runoff and snow

[32:38] melting. Maple Glenn Brook is running full and um they could get a

[32:42] » but they rig alongside the bloody river. That's the obvious choice.

[32:46] » They own the property right to the river.

[32:47] » Yeah. So I mean >> yeah they should just make a drill make

[32:50] a pipe break to that and then pump it and then

[32:53] » our area is full of springs. I mean >> there's springs everywhere to the point

[33:00] that they're under John's basement and he has to pump it out.

[33:05] » So >> that's different water though. That's

[33:07] that's the thing. That water is the reason why there's

[33:10] cedar trees at the top of our subdivision because it's wet. And so

[33:15] when I drilled some soups for my deck, I had a machine, you know, big machine

[33:19] come and they went down 4 feet and they hit um limestone outcrop

[33:24] » and that's as far as they could go. So in the spring when the snow melts um and

[33:29] it goes down, it hits the limestone outcrop and I'm at the top of the hill.

[33:32] I have no relief to drain anywhere. So I have to pump up to the DTI ditch. And so

[33:37] I have about five gallons a minute that I'm pumping for about a month and a half

[33:42] because it hits and it comes up to about a foot higher than my basement. But

[33:45] that's water that's perched. That's not the stuff that's we're really talking

[33:49] about. >> Yeah. That's that's above the sediment.

[33:52] » Yeah. It looks wet, but it's it's it's sealed off from the the aquifer. The the

[33:58] other thing they don't mention in the EIA is a tree nursery has grown

[34:02] immensely in the past five years, five, six years. Um, John mentioned the

[34:09] federal program and it's something they grabbed that money and we heard them

[34:14] working over there in 2024 and they were heating these green houses. We think

[34:19] they're about 250 ft long. We we're not sure, but they're about there's 10 of

[34:26] them. Each one is about 30 feet wide. They're enormous, bigger than anything

[34:31] else they've got over there. And we're sort of saying, well, before you build

[34:37] those great big green houses and populate them with seedlings, shouldn't

[34:41] you looked at the water consideration before this major expansion? But we I I

[34:48] don't know. We're just speculating. It was the money that was there. They had

[34:53] to do it quickly. And now we're now we're they're threatening our wells,

[35:00] » you know, because a new well cost, you know, $15 to $20,000. That's a lot of

[35:04] money. >> That's why I say that that little $5,000

[35:08] instrument >> on those two $20,000 wells is a minor

[35:12] cost. And if they were totally transparent, that thing will will

[35:17] actually transmit to a cloud and you can go on the website and so the residents

[35:21] could go and see what the water level is. I don't think that's going to

[35:23] happen, but I would think the trainers would like to know for their own thing

[35:28] rather than fill those in. And the worst thing that could happen is to

[35:32] monitor flow from a flow meter on the pipes that are going to the tree

[35:37] nursery. So just think of it as one big pipe. put a flow meter on that and they

[35:41] say, "Okay, well, we were only taking, you know, 800,000

[35:47] liters a day out of that, but you don't know how that's affecting the wells."

[35:51] That's what you're bringing in. And the pump test for 72 hours may have told you

[35:56] that was there, but 72 hours is kind of short.

[36:03] » Yes, >> Mayor has a question.

[36:05] » Um, yeah. I I guess the thing that I I strikes me most about this is um

[36:12] we can sit and speculate because none of us are hydro geologists and we don't

[36:16] even know if the nurseries on the same aquifer. Do you guys know if it's on the

[36:20] same acryer as you're on? >> Well, I I would suspect that there's one

[36:24] that covers that whole area. >> But see, but tech,

[36:26] » but the acryers usually are are >> Yeah, the thing is we we don't know

[36:30] that. You don't know that. Nobody knows. >> We don't know that either. And my point

[36:34] is is I don't know why there was not um meetings that that to me is the thing

[36:40] that you can do something about. We can sit and speculate whether there's enough

[36:43] water or there's not enough water or whatever, but you know, we're none of us

[36:46] are the experts on it. And what we should be pushing for I think is um

[36:53] questions to be answered at a meeting by by the people who are experts in it and

[36:59] then you can make a you know a good decision because I mean it's not us. I

[37:02] mean, I don't know whether you could pump. I used to work in the nursery,

[37:04] another full disclosure, but that was in the 90s.

[37:06] » I used to work in the in the tree nursery in the 70s.

[37:09] » It was very 90s and uh so it sounds like it's changed a

[37:13] lot since I and you know, you know, I'm certainly not an expert at it, but

[37:19] there's no reason on earth that that you know, because we can sit here and

[37:22] speculate. I know nothing about pumping water from the river. Um you know, I

[37:26] might guess because of proximity you might be in the same aquifer, but then

[37:29] again, you might not. Um, I've learned that from this waters people I work with

[37:34] the the ones who were doing our water surveying for fun. We were looking at at

[37:38] different things and as to why my my well I I have a lot of water and why my

[37:42] neighbor down the road just went dry. And our guy looked at it and goes,

[37:45] "Well, because you're not in the same acquer, you know, and we're not that far

[37:47] apart." So that you just don't know. But there are people who do. And my point is

[37:52] that I think we should be looking at you getting somebody to come and answer

[37:56] these questions and and in a way that you know you and I and all the rest of

[38:00] us here understand. So I'm hoping that um you know you will push that and I'm

[38:05] hoping that Cindy will do something to to get these people going. The reason

[38:09] they hire consultants is because the consultants are supposed to know this

[38:12] and so they should be doing the testing and they should be telling you know

[38:16] people in words that they understand what's going on. So

[38:19] » that's the big thing. It's a lack of information and that breeds fear.

[38:23] » That's right. >> In your subdivision. Okay. So, we're not

[38:25] against them taking the water if it's there.

[38:27] » That's fine. >> Um, but you know, we don't want to be

[38:29] the litmus test as our wells go dry that they're taking too much.

[38:33] » Too late then. >> And it's too late then. So,

[38:35] » you need the assurance that the water is there.

[38:38] » There. We need to know how much they're going to take. We need to know how much

[38:41] the aquifer recharges it every year. And it's not going to be great year for

[38:45] doing that. Yeah. >> And um there's just a lot of questions

[38:49] and people are scared and um and two big big well truck pulled up behind Daryl's

[38:55] house and started drilling well. So people are like they're drilling already

[38:59] » kind of thing. But it was the test well but they're going to fill it in.

[39:02] » Yeah. >> It doesn't make any sense when they got

[39:04] an opportunity to put an observation unit on there.

[39:07] » Yeah. But see that's the other thing we don't know. I mean we we think the test

[39:10] well might be useful. They may have reasons to think it's not. And it's the

[39:14] information of that that you need so that you can make the the right

[39:17] decision. >> Well, when New Maryland put their three

[39:20] wells, they put them all around the well and they added four new ones. That to me

[39:23] kind of says we don't want to affect the residents and at certain point you got

[39:27] to do something else. >> But they also know their hydro geology

[39:29] too and we don't. >> That is true. Yeah.

[39:32] » That's the thing. No, no. All I'm not trying to be, you

[39:36] know, devil's advocate here, but all I'm saying is we need to have the right

[39:38] information and the information is what we should be pushing for. Yeah, we need

[39:42] we need the test wells and and asurances >> and council, you have a question.

[39:47] » Is it for sure that they are going to decommission

[39:51] » those wells? It says can be decommissioned. It doesn't say will be

[39:55] decommissioned. >> It does in another thing that I Oh, it

[39:57] does. >> It does. There's they're to be capped

[40:00] with a say cement, but some sort of plastic rubber stuff, you know. Yeah.

[40:07] And I and I get why they do that. I mean, you're really, if you sell your if

[40:10] your house burns down and you sell the lot, um, you're you're supposed to

[40:14] actually get a permit to decommission the well.

[40:16] » Yes. >> Every well has to be decommissioned.

[40:18] It's not used. >> Yeah.

[40:20] » Because they don't water pollution going down into the aquifer is the real

[40:25] » No one's falling in those small. >> All right. Any other questions or

[40:29] comments? >> No.

[40:31] » Appreciate the chance to talk to you folks. Terry, I'll leave you the copy of

[40:33] the presentation. >> That's great. I'll put it in our file.

[40:36] » Sure. >> Well, thank you very much. Thank you

[40:37] very much. >> Enlightening.

[40:39] » I got I got a few press. For some reason, I got voted to be the

[40:42] spokesperson for the

[40:46] job. >> Yeah. Anyway,

[40:47] » good job. >> We have jobs for you.

[40:51] » Yeah. >> Maybe I should run.

[40:56] » You know, everybody's concerned about their their wellwater these days.

[40:58] » Oh, I I used to water my garden up front and people are going by and they're

[41:02] looking at me going, "Oh, no. Sorry." do that at night in the dark.

[41:07] » Yes, it's >> bad counterfeit. Well,

[41:10] » but that's one thing that they found out when they did the wells in New Maryland

[41:13] is that they did sink three big wells. Two of the bigger wells they cannot run

[41:16] at the same time. They have to alternate them.

[41:19] » Well, the Marylandto had a lot of water problems out there anyway.

[41:22] » I used to live there. They didn't develop spring water of yours spring

[41:25] water place and I was on a well but a lot of the people when I was living

[41:29] there in the early late 80s >> who were original residents of New who

[41:34] had 50 foot wells they all ran dry >> because they have seven or 8 thousand

[41:38] people now and they're all stuck in the water straws.

[41:41] » You should change the name from Springwater Place to something else. I

[41:43] know we have we have a spring water lane in in either of

[41:46] » you. Thank you gentlemen.

[41:50] » Thank you >> presentation.

[41:53] » You don't have to run away. You stay and enjoy the rest of the council meeting if

[41:56] you like. >> We want our signs.

[42:01] » We're working. I wasn't one of the ones, but we had

[42:04] some very active folks in our in our subdivision that did not want to be part

[42:08] of Verdictton. And >> I must say that um was it um Austin

[42:14] » David Bath? >> No, no, it was the MLA at that time for

[42:18] he's he's gone now, but um anyway, he said, "No problem. Get the thing. Sign

[42:24] everybody onto it." And he says, "I'll make the changes." And it happened.

[42:26] » Well, if you didn't hear, welcome to >> H.

[42:31] » We've always liked it. move into town.

[42:39] » Okay, moving item seven, uh, business arising from the cons.

[42:44] » Yep. >> Yeah,

[42:45] » we have Chief Graphs with us tonight. So, we'll move on to 7A, the Kings Clear

[42:48] Fire Department report.

[42:58] » Good evening, worship. No more from the public. Stop.

[43:05] » Should get you to go first. There we go. >> No problem.

[43:10] » Uh, you got my copy of calls we had in

[43:16] December.

[43:22] I think there was uh 12 accidents at 12 poles

[43:30] and hydro lines of course three

[43:35] one structure

[43:40] it was put down as a electrical problem that's what the call come in as

[43:46] what it was is buddy was throwing out his water pipes with the

[43:52] » heater, right? >> Oh, no.

[43:54] » Yeah. Went in the house and seeing the smoke and

[44:00] so could be in this electrical problem, but it was on fire when we

[44:08] » So, we got real quick and moved on.

[44:12] » Yeah. Still people still try to unthaw their place with a torch. Go figure.

[44:16] » Yeah. Well, no, this is heat gun. Yeah. Heat gun. Yeah. So, I mean, the torches

[44:22] and trigger locked and >> it was taped up. So,

[44:26] » there's a lot of heat up on those heat guns.

[44:28] » Oh, yeah. He went inside to have a coffee or whatever and

[44:34] » how quick it can happen. >> Yeah.

[44:36] » Very simple. Uh, another thing we're looking at

[44:43] is uh doing an ice rescue course and elevator course.

[44:50] » It's going to be what? $425 per person, but not everyone's taking it.

[45:00] And with your blessing, I guess we will uh

[45:06] if we set it up, we'll probably sell some seats to the capital district,

[45:12] » right? Like if we use six and they only take 12, then we get six seats that we

[45:18] could sell. >> That's a good idea. Help defay the cost

[45:22] anyway. >> Yeah, that's right.

[45:25] » I think we only have one out of the veteran hammer,

[45:28] » too. school in the hotel. >> There's one in the school.

[45:32] » There you go. >> So, good stuff to know.

[45:38] » Oh, yeah. You need to know that. >> I got to deal with them.

[45:42] » And we have some props from fire marshall's

[45:47] office. Extinguisher prop. Basically shows you

[45:52] how to do use an extinguisher. So, that's available anytime we want it.

[45:58] So any functions going on? >> So Chief Crimson and I were saying that

[46:04] maybe ham days. >> Yes.

[46:06] » We could probably have >> probably do it.

[46:10] » Yeah. >> And bring the trailer the trailer into

[46:13] the kids. >> Good idea.

[46:15] » Good idea. >> A little bit of knowledge comes in

[46:18] handy. I mean, you grab an extinguisher and you can't you it doesn't work. I'll

[46:21] pull the pin out of it. >> If you don't know that, you could be

[46:24] caught. Yeah. And with the trailer and stuff, it's good to know well in

[46:29] advance. So if you're up to it, I'll make the

[46:34] call. >> So we'll have booked for a weekend.

[46:38] » Yeah. Sounds like a good idea. >> So Chief Chris, will you be able to do

[46:44] our training for our summer students this year on the fire extinguishers?

[46:48] Because we did that last year, right? That didn't we do training on fire

[46:52] extinguishers? Yeah, we did. Not a lot, but we did. Yeah.

[46:59] And you get there new students this year.

[47:01] » Uh possibly we'll be probably getting additional students.

[47:07] » Because EFF will be coming up too, the end of May, 1st of June.

[47:12] » Yes. Right. >> So,

[47:15] we have the other students. They're all >> all have numbers and stuff. So, there's

[47:21] anything a major I'll be making a call looking for bodies there.

[47:31] » Okay. Any questions for the chief? >> That was it.

[47:35] » You're getting off easy tonight. >> All right. Now to another meeting.

[47:41] » No rest. >> So, thank you, Chief.

[47:44] » Thanks, Chief. >> Appreciate it.

[47:45] » I, Council McKenzie, move to receive the fire department report for December.

[47:49] » Second floor. Second. Any questions, comments?

[47:54] All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I.

[47:57] » Contrary minded. Motion carried. Thank you. Uh item B, we have the municipal

[48:02] vehicle use policy number 202601. I'm gathering everybody has read that in

[48:06] their package. >> So if so, uh I'll get a motion, please.

[48:10] » I councelor duly move to adopt policy 2026-01,

[48:14] the municipal vehicle use policy. >> Second.

[48:18] » I councelor Delete a second. >> Okay. Do we have any questions? his

[48:22] comments. >> Just didn't we already have this this

[48:25] municipal use policy? We just didn't. We just never enacted it. We talked about

[48:29] it for a long time. >> I think we talked about it, but it was

[48:31] never really

[48:33] » Oh, I just assume we need it updated for the fire department.

[48:36] » No, we've never had it. >> Never had it.

[48:38] » I know we talked about it. >> We did. We did, but we never but we've

[48:42] never >> Okay.

[48:45] » Okay. Any other questions or comments? >> All those in favor signify by saying I.

[48:49] » I. Contrary minded motion carried. Thank you. Uh item C, black art portfolio

[48:55] phase one. Again, this was in the uh package. If anybody I'm sure everybody's

[49:01] gone over it.

[49:04] So, we have to decide whether to move on to phase two or or stop at phase one.

[49:12] But I do need you to um adopt >> your your report for phase one.

[49:20] » Okay. So, need a motion to adopt phase one.

[49:22] » I councelor Fox move to adopt the strategic roadmap phase one report

[49:27] prepared by the black arcs and port portfolio for phase one of the traffic

[49:32] flow growth and infrastructure planning software.

[49:35] » Second. >> I council Julie second.

[49:38] » Any questions, comments? We're good. All those in favor signify by saying I.

[49:42] » I. >> Contraminded.

[49:45] » Motion carried. Thank you. Now, uh the second motion on there is whether we're

[49:49] going to uh move into phase two or what not. So, we'll get the motion on the

[49:52] floor and then we'll have discussion if needed.

[49:54] » I would like to. So I I councelor McKenzie move to authorize the CEO to

[49:58] enter into a contract for black arcs and portfolio to continue onto phase two of

[50:03] the strategic road mapping software development and traffic flow plan in the

[50:07] amount of $38,871 plus HST for a total of $44,71.65.

[50:15] » Secer high second.

[50:18] » All righty. We have a motion on the floor. Any questions, comments?

[50:24] Um, no. I I think we met a presentation from them

[50:28] » and it seems very pertinent to what we want to do, what we need to do uh to

[50:32] continue on with our traffic issues and hand also.

[50:36] » Okay. Any other comments? >> No. All those in favor signify by saying

[50:40] I. >> I.

[50:41] » Contrary minded motion carried. Thank you. Item D, uh, adapted to the agenda

[50:47] treasures report. So, I'll turn this over to chair.

[50:50] So, council, I wanted to um speak about the

[50:54] my treasures report, the CIO report um part of it, I just gave um a list of

[51:01] everything that we got accomplished last year. So, you can um read that.

[51:08] However, for the treasures report, um I just wanted to let you know that our

[51:13] 2026 general operating budget was approved by the province on December the

[51:19] 17th and they approved the following rate. So

[51:24] residential for no street lights, it's going to be

[51:29] 3683 cents and street lights 3894.

[51:36] non-residential will be um 0.5525 cents and street lights would be 0.541.

[51:47] So based on the residential property with no street lights and an assessed

[51:52] value at $300,000, this would equate to a tax bill of about approximately

[51:58] $1,14.90.

[52:01] Um, so this is $44.70 increase over last year's rate of 3534.

[52:09] So with cost of living and us needing additional staffing and um services and

[52:18] um recreation stuff, um I think $44 is we did very well. So, um, property

[52:26] assessment notices for 2026 taxation year have been mailed out. I think a lot

[52:32] of people probably got them this week. >> As previously discussed, the province

[52:37] has applied a one-year freeze on the value of the property. Therefore, tax

[52:42] bills will be calculated using the 2025 property assessment value. Um, these

[52:48] figures are used to calculate property taxes, keeping in mind that not all

[52:53] properties are eligible for this freeze. I did see on social media today somebody

[52:59] saying that, um, they received theirs and there wasn't a freeze. So, um,

[53:04] refers to Service New Brunswick's property tax freeze. Um, they have a

[53:08] website and it lists, um, all the reasons for non-eligible,

[53:14] um, properties. There was about six of them.

[53:17] Um, so Service New Brunswick is responsible for assessing and

[53:22] classifying properties in New Brunswick, not municipalities.

[53:26] So residents should address their concerns with Service New Brunswick by

[53:31] calling 18887628600.

[53:37] And the deadline to file a request for review is February the 18th. and

[53:43] property tax bills will be mailed out on March the 2nd.

[53:49] » And just as a note of clarity, you had mentioned the the tax bill for the

[53:52] $300,000 assessment. That was only the municipal portion, which is about 40% of

[53:57] the tax bill. There's also an additional 60% of the tax bill that comes directly

[54:00] from the province. Yes. >> So residents happen to notice that my

[54:03] tax bill should only be $1,000 on 300,000. Well, that's that's the reason

[54:07] why it would could be 60% higher than that. So,

[54:09] » right. Correct.

[54:14] Okay. Any questions for Karen?

[54:20] » I move to receive the CA report. >> Captain Mackenzie, I second.

[54:25] » All right. Any other questions, comments?

[54:28] All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I.

[54:31] » Contrary mind. Motion carries. Thank you. Uh item 8 A, new business. Uh 8A,

[54:38] Madison Heights subdivision 2025 phase 2. So this is the second phase of that

[54:42] that's been going in. We already had phase one. Yes.

[54:46] » Not that long ago. >> Yeah. So with um phase two, they were um

[54:52] approved for this a little while back. Um the developer um doesn't plan on

[54:59] doing anything for a bit. He's going to do phase one. However, instead of having

[55:04] to come back later, he just figured that we would just put these on the books

[55:10] now. So, so once again, we can um take the 8%

[55:18] which is calculated in your table or you can ask for 8%

[55:24] um of the total area of the lots as in land.

[55:29] We can ask for part land, part cash.

[55:37] » Okay. Can I get a motion, please?

[55:42] » 8A motion under Madison Height subdivision 2025 phase one in red.

[55:48] » I'll make a motion and then we can see where it goes.

[55:52] I councelor Heislip move that the rural community of Hanwell request a sum of

[55:56] money up to 8% of the value of the property in the amount of $24,783.92

[56:03] as per similar sales and SMB property assessments online as divined in the

[56:09] table following. Do you want me to read the table?

[56:13] » No. >> Okay,

[56:15] » it'll be in the minutes. >> Thank you.

[56:17] » Can I have a second or please? >> I councelor Dele second. Any questions,

[56:21] comments? Council Penzy, >> just uh make a comment there for people

[56:25] that might be listening as to why I'm going to vote the way I am. I made it

[56:29] clear hopefully probably not. Uh many many moons ago that um in the cases of

[56:35] us looking for land public purposes, whether it be land or money, I will

[56:39] always vote for the side of land. Um tried a couple times in the past and

[56:43] know that usually always fails. Um so this time, same holds true. I'm not

[56:49] going to support taking the money for this. I would have rather see the land

[56:52] uh I don't care if it's only 100 square feet and plant a tree on it, right? It

[56:55] doesn't really matter the the size. Um I think we need the land is more usable

[57:01] regardless of what it is over the small amount of money to get over this. So

[57:05] that's why I will not be supporting this motion.

[57:08] » Okay. Any other questions, comments? >> I have just one other comment.

[57:11] » Deputy Mayor. Um I guess the one thing I would like maybe

[57:16] that we could ask the uh service commission to do going forward um is

[57:22] they they put in a recommendation as to whether you know they want land whether

[57:26] we should look at lander money. I know every uh subdivision is different. Um

[57:31] I'm a great proponent of if we could get land that's useful there. Um we should.

[57:39] If we don't then I don't have a problem with the money. But I guess what I would

[57:42] like to see happen, I don't know how much when people come in to do these

[57:46] things. I know sometimes people will come and they'd like us to take a piece

[57:49] of land and we had that come up and it it didn't seem feasible at the time, but

[57:53] I'd like to see somewhere in the documentation because usually the

[57:56] service commission is very good at working with the developers and I'd like

[58:00] to see some kind of in their report um just where they've indicated whether or

[58:05] not they they've discussed this option with the with the land owner

[58:10] » to take the land. No, >> just to have

[58:13] » if there's any land that would be >> to work with them for this to be a

[58:17] collaborative thing, I guess, is my idea because some people, you know, would be

[58:21] interested in in that option and maybe aren't aware of it and so and there may

[58:27] be cases where they are wanting to do that. land's not suitable, but I'd just

[58:30] like to see a note in in their files when we get them whether they've

[58:34] actually discussed this and and worked with the land owner to see which option

[58:39] really is the best for everybody concerned.

[58:41] » That would be nice. And >> yeah,

[58:43] » like where it would be in the plot. >> Yeah.

[58:46] » When you when you look at when when we look at this map in front of us, what we

[58:50] see is the proposed building lots, what we don't see is where where said

[58:56] property as the 8% could be. Yeah. >> And and what value we would put on it.

[59:02] So >> yeah,

[59:03] » that makes sense. >> There's no knowledge as to where that 8%

[59:06] could be, what what it is, where it is. >> Councelor Fox,

[59:09] » just a a question to um the CEO. I'm just wondering, do we I can't recall how

[59:18] many lots there were in phase one. >> I can tell you, right here.

[59:23] » I think there would have been eight because there's nine. It starts at

[59:25] number nine in phase two. So there must have been eight.

[59:27] » Must be eight. I'm wondering.

[59:32] » Yeah, >> the same.

[59:34] » There was eight. >> Okay.

[59:36] » Oh, well, eight. Uh, one of them was that pond

[59:41] » one. So, there's actually one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Yeah,

[59:45] eight. And one was >> not useful.

[59:49] » Not useful. >> Okay. Any other questions or comments?

[59:51] Council Hawks. >> Well, so just to comment on that. So now

[59:55] we're now we're looking at um 15 plots, right?

[1:00:00] » Um in total. That kind of changes things for me because now we're not looking at

[1:00:06] something small. Now we're looking at a larger subdivision and how many lots do

[1:00:10] you need before we should have some land um as opposed to, you know, just taking

[1:00:16] the money, right? So um yeah. So anyway, just I just wanted to say that that it

[1:00:22] it just kind of changes things because now it's it's bigger, right?

[1:00:27] » And and how big becomes big enough that we need to take some.

[1:00:33] » So council, um I don't believe from talking to the developer that he's in a

[1:00:39] big rush um for this. If you would like, I can go back and ask them like, is it

[1:00:45] possible to possibly do the land portion of it?

[1:00:51] How big of the area and where would it be? And then I can bring it back. We're

[1:00:56] probably going to have a couple of um meetings in February with the audited

[1:01:01] financial statements and different things that we've got going on. So, I

[1:01:06] could certainly talk to the developer if you want to kind of put this on hold and

[1:01:13] then bring it back to you afterwards. >> Should I ask another question?

[1:01:19] » Yeah, possibly want to maybe run that through Lonnie and he can contact the

[1:01:22] developer, right? Is that what I'm saying?

[1:01:24] » Um, it can be. I mean, he's been here in my office times. So,

[1:01:30] » yeah. But actually this was my point exactly uh as to why we'd like to have

[1:01:35] this stuff worked out before because it really is not up. We should not be the

[1:01:38] ones talking to him that it should go through the develop through the

[1:01:43] development officers and go through Lonnie's office.

[1:01:46] » It's their responsibility. >> It's their responsibility to do that

[1:01:48] stuff for us. Yeah. >> Our planners.

[1:01:51] » Yeah. >> Yeah. So you can contact Li if if that's

[1:01:53] what council desires. Then we'd have to table this motion to our next meeting.

[1:01:57] » I'd like to have the discussion with them actually.

[1:02:00] as always. >> Okay,

[1:02:02] » I can just resend the motion. >> No, I think we just set the table with

[1:02:05] no >> we could just make a motion to to

[1:02:07] postpone this to a future um council session.

[1:02:13] » I can make a motion. I'd like to make a motion to postpone the motion on

[1:02:18] the floor to a future session of council to meet.

[1:02:21] » Second. >> I councelor newly will second.

[1:02:23] » Any questions, comments? All those in favor signify by saying I.

[1:02:27] » I. So, this motion has been postponed until our probably our next meeting or

[1:02:32] until Lonnie gets some information for us.

[1:02:35] » Okay, moving on to item B. Uh, the radon testing uh remediation. Terry has uh

[1:02:41] talked to those folks and she has some information for us.

[1:02:44] » Thank you. So, I I contacted a company um I found one and

[1:02:51] actually plus was talking to them the day before

[1:02:55] yesterday. um they had to come today um to do something in Preerton. So they

[1:03:02] came over, they looked at our results. Um they really think that it probably

[1:03:09] has something to do with the air exchange. Um

[1:03:15] our boardrooms um were quite high. However, in those areas, you're not

[1:03:21] getting a whole lot of air circulation. We had them closed up a lot. There's not

[1:03:27] windows in there. Um they said that I was worried because we didn't test the

[1:03:34] community hall >> and I said, you know, like I'm just kind

[1:03:39] of worried with um rents and stuff. He said the air circulating all the time,

[1:03:44] especially where the room is so large. >> So I mentioned to him about using the

[1:03:50] boardrooms as well. And he said he really he said as long as you kind of

[1:03:54] kept a wall part of our wall or a door open like into the community hall or

[1:04:00] into this um part, he really didn't see um an issue with it. He said radon is

[1:04:07] long-term exposure. So he said having a a rent is not going to um do anything.

[1:04:16] Saying that u they did go through our building, looked at all of the air

[1:04:20] exchange. I said that we are also working with PMC right now to look at

[1:04:26] our air exchange system anyway. So there is a pipe. I didn't think that we

[1:04:33] probably had the radon um pipe. 2015 it was put in as code that you every

[1:04:41] building had to have one. I didn't think that we had one. He said that for a

[1:04:47] building this size, there are probably a few of them and they're probably in the

[1:04:51] walls >> or whatever. Um, so I'm going to go back

[1:04:56] and look at the plans. He was just here today and we'll try to see if there's

[1:05:01] other ones, but there is one in our mechanical room. So, what they're

[1:05:07] thinking of doing um they will cut a small hole um probably somewhere close

[1:05:14] to the front of the building in the floor and it's like a vacuum.

[1:05:18] » Mhm. >> Okay.

[1:05:18] » To be able to see and if there is a air intake or something then they'll know

[1:05:24] more. So, they're going to do some testing um first. I don't have a price

[1:05:30] for you. I had a kind of a blank motion for you, but I think it's too premature.

[1:05:37] Um, if anything, maybe just do a motion just saying that

[1:05:44] to let me mitigate it or whatever. But, um, I think that's kind of common sense

[1:05:50] that it's something that we've got to do. Um,

[1:05:53] » just being an operational thing. >> Yeah, I really think it is an

[1:05:55] operational >> or whatever. and until I find out costs

[1:06:00] and stuff and then I will bring it back. But it's something now that we are aware

[1:06:04] of we really should. >> Yeah. This would be budget under

[1:06:08] building maintenance. Really? Really? >> Yeah. So, it's only if it came back and

[1:06:12] it was, you know, tons and tons of money, then I would um bring it forward

[1:06:17] to you. But it is something that we've got to uh

[1:06:22] get fixed. And um yeah, we're very fortunate, I think, to uh be able to get

[1:06:28] them in days >> notice or whatever. So, I will update

[1:06:32] you as soon as we knew know more. They were going to I gave them um a copy of

[1:06:38] our foundation plan and stuff. So, they were going to

[1:06:42] kind of look at that and see cuz we're only on a slab kind of thing. So he

[1:06:49] really thinks that a lot of it is um just the air circulation which may be

[1:06:54] fixed. >> Is it the lack of air circulation or is

[1:06:57] it something that's in the circulation system that's making that room worse or

[1:07:01] those areas? >> So well the the boardrooms has um very

[1:07:05] little circulation because they're always closed up, right?

[1:07:07] » Um the mayor's office also that was a little bit higher but a lot of times

[1:07:13] he's kind of in our offices, right? So not really um into that one.

[1:07:18] So, I think it's just kind of usage and when

[1:07:23] things are closed off, of course, you're not going

[1:07:26] » to the folding doors open unless there's a reason to close them, then that would

[1:07:30] get rid of that problem. >> Yeah, that's kind of good news.

[1:07:32] » Well, see, we didn't know until we had this. So um yeah so I think um once we I

[1:07:39] will discuss this with um PMC as well and maybe it's part of that whole air

[1:07:45] exchange um thing that we can rectify. So maybe between the two companies we

[1:07:50] can uh get >> Shouldn't be very expensive to do that.

[1:07:53] It's usually just a little fan. So if the pipes were already done like that

[1:07:56] for code they probably already have the electrical and everything already run.

[1:08:00] Yeah, cuz I think he said that um with the pipe then it's another pipe that

[1:08:04] will go up through to the roof. >> Yeah, it just fans

[1:08:10] like >> I will say I will say this though. Um we

[1:08:13] can leave the doors open between the hall and the boardrooms. However, both

[1:08:17] of those rooms are heated differently. So then you've got a cross biting

[1:08:21] between the hall heat and the boardroom heat.

[1:08:24] » Boardroom's geothermal where the hall is not. So this side maybe

[1:08:29] » it is can be left open on this side like towards the hallway.

[1:08:32] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[1:08:34] » Through the day. >> Through the day. Through the day. Yeah.

[1:08:36] And then he said that was kind of another thing. Um

[1:08:41] » our heating system it cools down at night like usually 4:00 our heating

[1:08:46] system will cool down. So he said that radon

[1:08:49] » will rise. Right. So he said that there's other um systems that we can get

[1:08:56] the little pucks that we have um kind of interesting the radon pits that plastic.

[1:09:05] So they have to take a microscope and they have to count all those little dots

[1:09:10] that are have hit the inside of that. So I was like okay this was like not much

[1:09:15] bigger than a tuni kind of thing. And they counted like the 600 Sounds great.

[1:09:22] So, um, he said that there are tests that will be more of a graph and I was

[1:09:30] mentioning about yours, Counselor McKenzie, and he was wondering if yours

[1:09:34] hooks up to a computer that um will show you those graphs.

[1:09:38] » You can. Yeah. I I don't I just use the stuff that's built into the machine with

[1:09:41] it, but you can get >> or whatever. So, good way to do it.

[1:09:46] » Yeah. Anyway, so um I ended up having to leave to go to a meeting. So, I didn't I

[1:09:51] wasn't able to finish the last of it. And he said he'd contact me um tomorrow.

[1:09:56] So, I'll know more as we move forward, but maybe we'll have to do some other

[1:10:01] kind of testing. So, we're on >> Okay. Okay. Moving on to item nine,

[1:10:06] proclamations. We do not have any. Uh item 10, upcoming activities. January

[1:10:11] 22nd to February the 8th Frost of Snowshoe and ski loan pickup Monday to

[1:10:15] Friday 8:00 a.m. to 400 p.m. Contact Hanwell Recreation at Recreation at

[1:10:20] Hanwell.b.ca for more information. February 28th, the Moonlight Hike at

[1:10:24] Hanwell Recreation Park at 7:00 p.m. Item 11, we do not have a close session

[1:10:28] for tonight. Item 12, date, time, and location. Next meeting will regular

[1:10:31] council meeting council chambers, February the 18th, 2026 at 7 p.m. Can I

[1:10:35] get a motion to adjurnn, please? I councelor Fox move to adjourn.

Regular meeting of council Jan 21 26

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