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[2:31] - Okay? Yep. Okay.

[2:34] I'll call the order the September 21st,

[2:37] Paris Council Planning Commission meeting to order.

[2:42] And the first item we have on the agenda,

[2:46] am I okay without a mic in front of me?

[2:48] Is that okay?

[2:49] - I can, - You're hearing Okay. I just noticed that. Okay.

[2:55] First thing on the agenda is approval of the minutes

[2:59] from July 20th.

[3:02] Anybody care to make a motion to approve those minutes?

[3:05] I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. Second. Okay.

[3:08] Alright. All right, Maggie

[3:10] and Jeff, well, you've been asked, so.

[3:13] Alright. All in favor of approving of the July 20th minutes.

[3:16] Say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay.

[3:20] That motion carries.

[3:23] Next item on the agenda is time for Public Comment

[3:25] for anything that is not on the agenda.

[3:28] So do we have anything from the public to bring up tonight?

[3:33] Roy, come on up.

[3:37] - Hi, I'm Dr. Roy Love.

[3:40] I live at 4 0 4 West Main Street

[3:43] and I just wanted to Public Comment about

[3:48] the development across the street

[3:49] that just got, is being built.

[3:52] You know, the first house is being put in there,

[3:54] seven houses, 1.5 million to $2 million houses.

[4:00] And, you know, the intent of our planning commission

[4:05] and our, and our is to fill the,

[4:08] and not go out into the surrounding areas.

[4:14] That is what we wanna do.

[4:15] Obviously, we also talk a lot about that.

[4:18] We want to make it more affordable housing.

[4:20] We don't wanna have people coming from Lewistown

[4:23] and Lewisburg and wherever else,

[4:25] driving from Phillipsburg to be workers.

[4:28] Certainly approving a subdivision

[4:31] that you guys know is gonna take 750 loads of soil

[4:37] in order to drain correctly.

[4:41] It's not gonna be a development that is gonna appeal

[4:43] to anyone except for millionaires,

[4:45] dual income millionaires living there.

[4:48] That certainly doesn't provide any of the kind of idea

[4:52] that we want to bring in an opportunity for people

[4:57] who fit the demographic of burg.

[5:02] - Sorry, sorry, sorry. - Okay.

[5:06] And then part of the, the criteria

[5:11] for a developer as develop, as a planning committee is

[5:17] they bring in a plan.

[5:19] The plan's already done as long

[5:21] as they fill reg regulations.

[5:22] You guys have no teeth whatsoever.

[5:25] You can't do anything to sell you

[5:27] that this doesn't fit in the community

[5:30] because it's, it's according to the regulations.

[5:35] One of the statements was the builder will try

[5:39] to pro provide and protect as many trees as possible.

[5:43] Has anyone looked at the development?

[5:44] There's not a tree left.

[5:47] I pleaded with him to, to, to take one tree.

[5:50] But according to drainage

[5:54] and the like, in order to build that,

[5:56] it's 21 feet high in the back of that development

[6:01] in order to drain correctly.

[6:03] Now, to me that's a plan

[6:06] that you guys could say, that's crazy.

[6:09] You're gonna bring in 75, 750 loads

[6:14] in order to make this drain correctly in order

[6:17] to build a development in this, in this property.

[6:20] But you can't do anything as long

[6:23] as it fits the regulations.

[6:24] As long as the builder says that that's where you guys are,

[6:29] when is it ever gonna be that you say,

[6:31] wait a minute, this is Borough.

[6:33] We wanna make it.

[6:35] Yes, we want to have more housing that provides

[6:39] so people don't have to travel.

[6:41] This doesn't fit that model.

[6:43] But that's what I hear of why we do those things.

[6:47] Then let's, let's look at

[6:52] the idea that we're gonna save as many trees as possible.

[6:56] Last week they cut down a 2, 2, 200 year old trees

[6:59] that are directly on the property line.

[7:05] Seems to me a pretty good idea would be the tree commission

[7:10] as part of Harris Township communicates with the builder

[7:14] before the plan and said, what are you gonna do?

[7:17] You guys could put that teeth in.

[7:22] But, you know, and,

[7:25] and I just would like, you know, I've lived here for

[7:29] you since 99.

[7:32] I would like to have Berg remain wonderful.

[7:36] I'm really concerned. Five years from now,

[7:38] people are gonna say, BOL used to be great,

[7:42] but now there's so many cars on the road now there's

[7:46] so much traffic on the road.

[7:48] You know, development is going to be at the top

[7:51] of the street on Main Street, the bull mansion.

[7:55] When that happens, the hole

[7:58] that is gonna also put more people on the street,

[8:01] you got lots of kids on those streets.

[8:03] It's, it is now been a younger generation

[8:06] that's moving in the area.

[8:08] And I'm concerned that this beautiful place

[8:11] that everybody wants to live

[8:13] and thinks burg's the best place in the, is gonna go away.

[8:17] And I've watched it happen in the areas

[8:20] that I grew up in Lansdale,

[8:23] and I'm just concerned that that's gonna happen.

[8:25] And I really would like to see that not happen.

[8:28] And I think you guys have to get more teeth somehow

[8:32] to be able to say no to developers.

[8:35] I get the idea that we're gonna keep it in the, the,

[8:37] the zones and and protect the agricultural area.

[8:40] But I've also heard from some of you, wait a minute,

[8:43] what's Ferguson Township doing?

[8:46] Seems like there's houses popping up in all these

[8:48] agriculture areas like crazy.

[8:50] What's College Township doing?

[8:52] They're popping up in all these areas

[8:53] and we're gonna abide by that, that area

[8:55] and never put a restriction on a builder as long

[8:58] as they fill in the circle area.

[9:03] And what do we do when someone cuts down a tree

[9:05] that's 200 years old right on the property line.

[9:08] It's supposed to be only trees that were not going

[9:12] to be removed unless they were absolutely necessary.

[9:16] There's no reason that tree was cut down.

[9:18] Those two trees are cut down is

[9:20] because the owner wants to have it cut down

[9:22] so he has a better view of the pine trees behind it.

[9:26] The whole perimeter in the front, when I looked at the plan,

[9:29] had that lines that said there were going

[9:32] to be houses, there are gonna be trees.

[9:34] Do you see any trees along Main Street? None.

[9:38] And that's the, the builder's prerogative.

[9:43] I was at a a a meeting downtown when a person who goes

[9:47] to all of those meetings said,

[9:49] you guys gotta ask more from the developers

[9:53] because what's it gonna be to the developer when you say,

[9:57] Hey, you're gonna put 70 more cars on the

[10:00] street every single day.

[10:01] We're talking about traffic calming.

[10:04] We want you to contribute to that

[10:06] - For - What are they gonna say?

[10:08] Walk outta here for a $30,000 when he's paid

[10:11] $1.5 million to just build the landfill

[10:16] and pass it on to the people who are buying it.

[10:18] The houses. Of course he's gonna say, I'll do that

[10:22] now we're going to be very concerned about putting speed

[10:26] humps on the road

[10:27] because they're gonna cost 10 grand a piece.

[10:30] Ask the developer to do it.

[10:33] You're gonna put 70 more cars on the road, contribute

[10:37] to the possibility of meeting speed control.

[10:42] So that's all I wanted to talk about. It's very close to me.

[10:45] It's right across the street and you can say it's right in

[10:47] my backyard, but it doesn't make a difference.

[10:50] I care about Berg and,

[10:54] and if we, if we don't do more, you have guys,

[10:57] you guys have no teeth at stopping a developer doing

[11:00] whatever the hell he wants and you know it

[11:03] as long as they fit the regulations.

[11:05] And I think there should be more of that. Thanks.

[11:09] - Thanks Roy. - Roy

[11:12] and I have had a brief exchange about this subject, but,

[11:16] and that's certainly a lot for us to, you know, think about.

[11:19] But anybody have any comments they wanna make for tonight

[11:24] or just something we need to keep in mind?

[11:33] All right, well thanks. Alright.

[11:37] Alright, we'll move on

[11:38] to the planning commission business then.

[11:41] First item on the agenda is the data

[11:44] center draft. Were there

[11:45] - Any other, - I'm sorry, were there

[11:47] - Any other comments - From Oh, I'm sorry.

[11:50] I guess I did not drink.

[11:51] Yeah, there any other, any other public, public comments

[11:54] that are anything not on the agenda? I'm here

[11:56] - For four A.

[11:57] - Okay. All right. Sorry. Thanks.

[12:02] Yep, I definitely spaced that out after that

[12:05] but, okay.

[12:08] Well we're here for up for four a then

[12:11] data center draft Ordinance.

[12:13] - At the last meeting, the planning commission discussed the

[12:15] parameters that seemed appropriate for

[12:17] - The data center Ordinance in Harris Township.

[12:20] Using that information as well

[12:21] as additional ideas learned at a webinar

[12:23] that I attended in late July plus a few things from

[12:26] additional research staff created a draft of an Ordinance

[12:29] for discussion and consideration.

[12:31] The draft was included with the agenda.

[12:33] Staff also forwarded via email the slides

[12:36] provided at the July webinar in case PC members were

[12:39] interested in reviewing the information.

[12:40] Not asking that you talk about

[12:42] that in any kind of detail tonight.

[12:43] It was just for information staff's takeaway from the

[12:47] webinar was that Penn State

[12:49] or the people giving the webinar from Penn State believed

[12:52] most of the data centers that will be built have in

[12:55] fact already been built.

[12:57] That isn't to say the data centers won't be proposed in our

[12:59] area, but the demand seems to have peaked in the northeast

[13:02] and the hub of the data centers serving the Mid-Atlantic,

[13:04] the large, mid, Mid-Atlantic region.

[13:06] And those currently under construction are performing

[13:09] to expectations.

[13:11] I added some more language about some mitigating factors

[13:13] with some specifics on

[13:18] Large language and small language models

[13:20] that I gleaned from the research that's not really relevant

[13:23] to the conversation tonight.

[13:24] So I'll skip over that here.

[13:26] Many, many people believe that some that a hybrid

[13:31] of those two different types of

[13:35] AI are the future.

[13:36] But again, you can read on that in your own if you'd like.

[13:39] Staff's recommendation for tonight is

[13:41] that the draft ordinances a discussion item.

[13:43] If the PC believes some amendments are necessary,

[13:45] staff can complete such

[13:47] and present a revised draft at a future meeting.

[13:49] If the PC believes very minor

[13:51] or no amendments are required, a motion can be made

[13:53] to forward the draft of the board of Supervisors

[13:55] for consideration soon.

[13:56] The draft is this green attachment to your agenda.

[14:02] - Okay, thanks Rob.

[14:04] I know last time you talked about this, I know that

[14:07] we had discussed noise and,

[14:09] - And also just the overall water impacts,

[14:13] but is there anything anybody wants

[14:15] to bring up tonight about the specific

[14:17] regulations that are suggested here?

[14:21] - Can we ask that? - Yeah, go ahead Bob. We ask

[14:26] - That they use recycling water.

[14:28] - That the, the water usage is, is based on recycling.

[14:34] - We can probably include that as a

[14:35] - Recommendation.

[14:36] I don't know that we can require it.

[14:40] It may be a, a fact that they can't get enough water

[14:44] through the beneficial reuse that they need on a daily basis

[14:47] to accommodate what they, you know, what

[14:51] - They are gonna require.

[14:52] Yeah. I guess from what I've heard is that they have,

[14:54] they have ways of recycling.

[14:57] So if they need a hundred thousand gallons

[14:59] or whatever it is of water per day,

[15:01] but they have the CAPA there, there's technology out there

[15:04] that will allow them to recycle that water.

[15:06] So it's just like your car radiator and you pump it in there

[15:08] and it just cools it that way.

[15:11] I don't know if that's in there,

[15:12] but I, I would think that

[15:14] that would be one thing to look at.

[15:16] And the other thing is that to require them

[15:17] to use their own electricity, you know, power it themselves.

[15:22] And we, I think that,

[15:26] - Yeah, well from the seminars

[15:30] that we took at the Central County's Planning Commission,

[15:34] a large scale data center burns as much electricity

[15:37] as the whole town does.

[15:39] So we don't have to worry about them actually hooking up

[15:42] to our grid because they can't, they would have

[15:45] to build their own power plant

[15:48] because we just don't have the

[15:49] infrastructure for that to happen.

[15:52] And so that kind of, they would have to run generators

[15:56] all the time and the nor Ordinance would handle that.

[15:59] And so it would have to be a rather rather large piece

[16:02] of property as far as the water goes.

[16:06] We also don't, we think we have enough water,

[16:09] but we don't have the infrastructure for the water.

[16:11] So then it would have to be one of the type systems

[16:15] that they call closed loop

[16:16] and a reuse the water, send it down walls or cool it.

[16:21] But the problem with that system is that

[16:24] it's not completely closed loose ball the time.

[16:27] They flush it a couple times a year and what they,

[16:31] and then it goes into our sewage system are we have 'em hook

[16:34] up to our sewer system

[16:36] and from our research it has 13 forever chemicals in it

[16:40] that would go into our sewer system

[16:42] that would go into the streams.

[16:44] So that's really not a great answer to that either.

[16:47] 'cause they run it like antifreeze because

[16:49] otherwise the system corrodes.

[16:53] So I don't know how you would legislate that to make them,

[16:58] if when they flushed the closed loop system that they had

[17:01] to take it to a, a proper place where it could be disposed

[17:05] of like hazardous waste that could,

[17:07] we could put into our thing.

[17:10] - Can they, they can't forward the plastics. I

[17:13] - It's worse than that.

[17:14] It's like antifreeze. Yeah.

[17:17] So far as I know the sewer authority came

[17:20] and they're struggling right now in our sewer system.

[17:23] They've almost got accomplished to get rid

[17:26] of one forever chemical.

[17:29] Hmm. In the sewer system that we have now,

[17:31] they're working on it,

[17:32] but who knows how far along that they'll,

[17:35] it'll take some time and some money to be able to clean up

[17:38] what they get rid of.

[17:40] - So we don't have anything I'm sorry. No, go ahead.

[17:43] We don't have anything currently in this,

[17:46] in this proposed regulation

[17:49] - On that subject.

[17:50] I, about what I've, yeah, I think that if they come to us

[17:54] with a, and I call it a closed loop system,

[17:57] I don't think it should be discharged into,

[17:59] we have it saying that they're going

[18:01] to discharge it into our sewer system.

[18:02] Right. I don't think a closed loop system when they go

[18:05] to flush it, I think it should be taken away

[18:08] and taken to a, a proper facility to get rid of it.

[18:12] Just like we have high contaminants at the landfill

[18:15] we get rid of, we take it to a place where it can be clean.

[18:19] Not our sewer system that dumps down into Spring Creek.

[18:26] So I don't know, I just don't see one happening personally.

[18:30] I think there's a lot of roadblocks

[18:31] but I guess these guys have unfathomable amounts of money.

[18:35] But I, it just seems like there's a lot

[18:39] of physical roadblocks to put a big data center here,

[18:43] but it doesn't, doesn't hurt to put that in our Ordinance.

[18:47] I do on the closed loop systems from

[18:50] what I learned from those seminars, no matter what I didn't,

[18:54] you couldn't get a good answer on water usage.

[18:57] You just, there was nothing that you liked

[19:00] when you took the, I dunno if you took the same seminar,

[19:03] but it was just like, I don't like any of the answers.

[19:06] You know, I just didn't, you know,

[19:09] the electricity didn't bother me

[19:11] because they can build a generator plant

[19:13] and they can't soundproof it through technology

[19:15] so it wouldn't be bad to listen to.

[19:17] But the water issue's a problem

[19:20] and it takes a lot of water to cool.

[19:22] So unless they come up with some other cooling method.

[19:26] - So I don't know how much the, you know,

[19:29] we aren't fully aware

[19:30] what the Susquehanna River Basin Commission

[19:35] regulates or is looking at.

[19:36] I don't know if they have some of this when they're,

[19:39] if they're getting, you know, we're saying they have

[19:41] to get an approval from them.

[19:43] So I don't know how much they're gonna look at that.

[19:45] If they're gonna look at some of these same

[19:46] questions or they don't

[19:47] - Wanna look at water withdrawal is,

[19:49] I don't know if they would look at discharge as much

[19:51] as they would withdrawal, but I wonder if there wouldn't be

[19:55] language out there from municipalities that have fracking

[19:59] That sounds very similar to fracking

[20:01] type water being withdrawn and having to be transported away

[20:04] because it's, it needs

[20:05] to be basically reclaimed somewhere that can handle that

[20:07] - Well.

[20:08] Yeah. A system that can Right.

[20:10] Clean it properly or dispose of it properly.

[20:12] A ation system that we don't have. Right.

[20:16] - And Kent, just so you're aware,

[20:17] Kelly wool gas does have your hand up on Zoom.

[20:20] Okay. Didn't want you to miss it. Alright,

[20:22] - Well Kelly, are you - Ready to say something?

[20:25] - I am, thank you. I'm sorry I'm not there in person.

[20:28] I have a respiratory infection

[20:30] that I did not want to give to all of you.

[20:33] Yeah, right. So thank you for the initial draft

[20:37] of this data center plan here or the regulation.

[20:41] I definitely think that we should have this on,

[20:44] on file going forward.

[20:46] What I think the major thing that's missing, as most

[20:50] of you know, I am a professional registered nurse,

[20:55] population health is part of my expertise.

[20:58] What is missing from this is any mention about a,

[21:01] a required third party environmental health

[21:03] and safety evaluation that comes in

[21:06] with any proposal while it does address noise,

[21:10] noise is just one component of an environmental health

[21:13] and safety assessment.

[21:14] And I think we should require that as part

[21:16] of our regulation.

[21:19] And, and you could find the assessment

[21:21] that I can send whoever needs that information about

[21:24] what parts that would be.

[21:25] I can, I'm happy to send that to you

[21:28] electronically if you need me to.

[21:30] The other thing that I noticed in here under

[21:33] the noise part is the testing

[21:35] of emergency generators shall occur only between the hours

[21:38] of 8:00 AM and 6:00 PM And I recommend

[21:41] that being narrowed even further that that is only

[21:45] not weekends and not on holidays

[21:48] because I sure would not want to be listening to

[21:51] emergency generator testing on a Sunday.

[21:54] 'cause that's, you know, that would disrupt, disrupt the,

[21:57] the peaceful verb that we call burg.

[22:01] So thank you and I'm happy to answer any questions about

[22:04] what I just said or provide additional information

[22:08] to whomever is drafting this.

[22:13] - Okay. So I guess could we,

[22:19] could Deb summarize some of these comments we're making and

[22:22] or Todd and,

[22:25] and take that forward to the Supervisors then? Yeah, I

[22:28] - Think, I think what we'll do is we'll do a little bit more

[22:31] research into these specific topics

[22:35] and see if I can find regulations

[22:37] and other municipalities that address those things

[22:41] and see if generally those are things

[22:43] that are included in ordinances.

[22:45] Okay. I have to say I haven't seen any in the, in the ones

[22:48] that I've looked at, but I haven't looked

[22:50] at a million of them.

[22:52] So, so I'll do some research and, and,

[22:54] and see what, see what's out there

[22:56] and certainly present your ideas to the board if you,

[23:00] if you forward it to the board tonight with that direction.

[23:02] - Okay. I think these are all good

[23:05] points that have been made tonight.

[23:06] I will just add that I,

[23:08] I too am concerned about the noise issue,

[23:11] particularly in the evening and weekend hours.

[23:14] And I don't know if we could even regulate it more strongly

[23:19] than the 55 decibels for, you know, off hours

[23:26] because that's, you know,

[23:28] at night when things are quieting down,

[23:30] that's when you start noticing humming going on.

[23:34] And even though they can insulate a generator house,

[23:38] if it's, if it's really making a lot of noise it can,

[23:41] it can carry some distance. So

[23:44] - If you remember the first or last month we talked about

[23:47] that 70 was the limit

[23:49] and oh was it, I did some more research

[23:51] and they, the recommendation seems to be

[23:54] - 55.

[23:55] Okay. Yeah. Okay. That sounds better then. Yeah. Alright.

[23:59] Alright, go ahead.

[24:01] - And just on the landscaping, just to kind of follow

[24:04] what Roy was talking about, you know, we have the buffer

[24:08] of a hundred feet and you know, mechanical

[24:12] and electrical equipment shall be screened from view,

[24:15] but can we make that stronger?

[24:18] Because you know, like he said, it's not

[24:22] all the trees went down and in that neighborhood

[24:26] and we want to, we do wanna keep burg beautiful.

[24:31] You know, and this doesn't sound beautiful

[24:34] - For, - For the most part these would be in commercial

[24:36] and industrial areas

[24:38] where there probably aren't large forested areas anyhow,

[24:41] they're probably gonna have to plant whatever it is.

[24:43] Right? Yeah. Right there, there are certain warranty periods

[24:48] and permanent replacement periods in our regulations

[24:51] for landscaping and screening.

[24:53] Now we can look at those

[24:54] and see if we can make them stronger for this

[24:56] or it's even legal to make it stronger

[24:58] for one use more than the others.

[25:00] - Okay. Oh okay, I see. Yeah, yeah.

[25:02] - Alright. Yeah. And then, yeah with,

[25:04] and this would require a land development plan, right?

[25:06] Sure. So, and we do have, you know,

[25:10] I mean we have regulations for both residential

[25:12] and commercial industrial properties,

[25:15] but for commercial, industrial

[25:16] and multifamily we have land development plans which

[25:20] require, have landscaping plans which are enforceable.

[25:23] And that's something we don't have

[25:27] for just a simple residential subdivision is we don't

[25:30] regulate people cutting down trees.

[25:33] Right. And so,

[25:35] but we, I think we can have some stronger regulations with

[25:40] that on land developments.

[25:42] So, so hopefully that'll help and hopefully Yeah.

[25:46] And I guess hopefully these people would decide to go to,

[25:51] you know, college Township and places like that.

[25:53] Yes. And 'cause you know, we, I mean I think

[25:57] with our rural preservation Ordinance, I think it is,

[26:00] you know, probably more suitable for them

[26:06] to go somewhere else in my mind anyway,

[26:10] - Given the limited amount of land area that we have.

[26:13] Not to say that it couldn't be developed.

[26:15] I would imagine there's other places elsewhere in the

[26:17] county that would be more suitable.

[26:19] I won't pick a Township like you did, but

[26:24] - Story, well just not on camera, just the

[26:28] - Electric grid alone.

[26:29] - No, I mean, I mean obviously there's,

[26:30] there's been discussions about all kinds

[26:31] of things in the Dale Summit area for both, you know,

[26:35] from stuff like this to workforce housing, which yes.

[26:40] Those are things where it is harder in Harris to,

[26:42] to do some of those things.

[26:45] - Did we ever actually finish moving the landscaping

[26:48] requirements from Zoning to salt up?

[26:52] - I think they're actually in zone or are they in salt?

[26:55] Well I don't, my recollection I wouldn't,

[26:58] I wouldn't bet any amount

[26:59] of money in my recollection anymore.

[27:01] But my recollection is what we wanted to keep them out

[27:05] of SDO so that they couldn't be waived

[27:07] - And put.

[27:08] Okay. I remember we had a couple discussions about it.

[27:10] - Yeah, they did get a,

[27:12] those amendments were adopted last year as part

[27:15] of the quarter overlay.

[27:16] When those regulations were removed, you had other

[27:19] landscaping regulations that were in Zoning that,

[27:22] as Todd said, they can't be waived.

[27:24] They're gonna be required as part

[27:25] of any land development, they have to be followed.

[27:27] - Okay. Yeah. Okay.

[27:32] Any other comments? I'm good. Alright.

[27:36] - I guess, well you're gonna be taking this subject.

[27:38] Oh yeah, Alex, oh, I'm sorry. Yeah,

[27:44] - If you can say your name for the

[27:45] record. Absolutely. I'm Michael Hetrick.

[27:47] - I live over in the gates. I have not had an opportunity

[27:51] to see the proposed Ordinance,

[27:53] but my concern was I did spend some time looking

[27:58] through all the other ordinances of the Township

[28:00] and there's minimal noise regulation in the Township.

[28:04] There's some, there's something in the ag about

[28:06] entertainment and concerts or entertainment

[28:09] after 1130 at night, but there's not a whole lot.

[28:12] And my concern was that there would be

[28:15] strong regulation of noise in, in this proposed Ordinance.

[28:21] You've been discussing it, it sounds like there is,

[28:23] I think also Kelly mentioned noise as well.

[28:25] I, I mean obviously it's addressed at some level,

[28:28] but I think it's really important

[28:30] because as, as you all obviously know,

[28:34] this is a 24 7 buzz.

[28:37] These, these facilities don't shut down

[28:40] and it's, it's a real concern, especially

[28:45] if one would be located anywhere near any residential area.

[28:50] And they're, a lot of, one

[28:54] of the mentions in the Penn State is they think the

[28:56] northeast is fulfilled.

[28:58] There are a lot of residential areas

[29:00] that are really regretting that they've been filled

[29:03] because of the noise.

[29:04] And I just think it's a really,

[29:06] a really important factor to consider.

[29:08] And I Thank you.

[29:10] - Appreciate - That. A comment.

[29:12] - Yeah. We don't want the, yeah, we thank you.

[29:16] So we don't want the data set there to, you know,

[29:20] overpower the new highway

[29:25] 65 decibels, 55 decibels.

[29:27] You're not gonna be able to hear from where our industrial

[29:31] and commercial zones are.

[29:33] You're not gonna be able to hear it

[29:34] 'cause the highway's gonna be louder than that.

[29:36] The Jake breaks don't want to hear

[29:40] - That.

[29:42] Yeah. Who would wanna live next to the road?

[29:47] Yeah. Like 45 1 to do that. Well thanks everyone.

[29:51] I think we covered do that then.

[29:54] So, so you're gonna try to summarize that

[29:57] and I guess it'll go to Supervisors next.

[29:59] Okay. For further comments Early meeting. Alright.

[30:03] And okay so next,

[30:08] next item on the agenda is the open house

[30:12] for proposed village Zoning amendments.

[30:15] So over the last two years,

[30:17] - Planning commission had worked on doing a comprehensive

[30:20] analysis of the land use patterns in the village.

[30:23] And by village I mean the entirety of burg,

[30:25] not the Zoning district as well as some

[30:28] of the surrounding neighborhoods.

[30:29] And as a result, you came up with some

[30:33] recommendations to amend the existing regulations as well

[30:37] as creating a new Zoning district village

[30:39] residential for portions of the village.

[30:41] You did talk about those recommendations with the board

[30:44] back in 2025 as well as earlier this year.

[30:47] And they asked the commission to go out

[30:49] and hold open houses to get feedback from the public

[30:51] before bringing draft ordinances for their consideration.

[30:55] So the idea would be get some Public Comment

[30:58] if there are any changes that you wish to make

[31:00] before taking it to the board, you could do that

[31:03] and then bring those amendments forward.

[31:06] So what I did is worked on getting some materials prepared

[31:10] for open houses that you can present this to the public.

[31:14] And the idea would be hopefully that

[31:17] the commissioning could be present at these open houses,

[31:20] be part of kind of describing your thoughts to the public

[31:23] as they attend.

[31:26] My thought was probably having two open houses,

[31:29] one in the daytime and one during the evening.

[31:30] That way folks with different schedules could attend.

[31:34] And in the past, whenever we've done this, we have

[31:36] as staff met with property owners

[31:38] that couldn't make either one.

[31:39] If someone's outta town or what have you,

[31:41] we would be able to meet with them.

[31:42] So I was gonna share the materials real quick here.

[31:46] Let me just share the screen so

[31:48] that folks online can see this as well.

[31:54] And then this will give you an idea of, of

[31:56] what this would look like going to the, to the public.

[31:59] So there's a a series of seven posters

[32:04] and what we would do is have these printed off mounted on

[32:06] boards and probably set up in this room for, you know,

[32:10] people to go around and more

[32:11] or less follows the story

[32:12] of the process that you went through.

[32:14] So the first one talks about the analysis, some

[32:18] of the background that there was a small area plan done

[32:20] back in 2015.

[32:23] Ad hoc parking committee that was assembled in,

[32:27] they met back in I think 2021 and 2022.

[32:31] And then some of the goals of the project.

[32:34] The next poster board would talk about the

[32:37] study area itself.

[32:38] So this shows the area that you initially started with.

[32:41] If you remember you had looked a little bit

[32:43] beyond the boundaries of the historic district

[32:46] to take a look at some of the adjacent parcels

[32:48] to see if there was similarities,

[32:50] if they should be included in the study.

[32:52] And third one talks a little bit about some

[32:57] of the analysis itself, some of the key findings of

[33:02] what were discovered through this process.

[33:06] And I tried to use as many

[33:07] of these maps from the analysis as possible.

[33:11] And then the, the next one talks a little bit about

[33:14] you were review process.

[33:15] So looking at the permitted uses dimensional standards,

[33:19] parking regulations, the impact that this would have

[33:23] in the Township and then proposed changes

[33:26] and how it would reduce nonconformities.

[33:29] So these are all really exciting topics that we'll just

[33:33] engage people I hope.

[33:34] Right. But I think it,

[33:37] - Make sure you go into parking regulations right away,

[33:39] like on its whole slide. Maybe

[33:41] - You want an entire thing just about parking.

[33:43] - Oh yeah. We'll - I wasn't gonna do that. We'll put

[33:45] - Em to sleep right away.

[33:47] - The hope here would be that as folks

[33:49] attend these open houses though, they would see

[33:51] that you were methodical about this.

[33:53] It wasn't just haphazardly saying

[33:55] we're gonna just make changes.

[33:57] It was based upon an actual study, an actual

[34:00] on the ground conditions,

[34:02] which I think is important. Took us

[34:04] - Five years.

[34:05] - Ah, it wasn't quite that long. It wasn't quite that.

[34:08] So then recommendations, there's, there's two

[34:12] or actually three posters that talk about

[34:14] what your recommendations are.

[34:15] The first one is just kind of an overview.

[34:19] Basically two districts, one existing kind of village,

[34:23] core district and then Village Residential talks a little

[34:25] bit about the expected outcomes

[34:27] of having the two separate districts

[34:29] and then a poster for each district.

[34:31] I think that's important for property owners in either

[34:34] of these proposed districts.

[34:36] They can kind of focus on the one

[34:37] that's gonna impact them the most.

[34:39] This is where we get into parking Phil.

[34:41] So there's parking on here.

[34:42] An entire bottom section is all about parking regulations.

[34:45] But you know, it goes into the details about each

[34:48] of the different Zoning districts themselves.

[34:50] This one's the village

[34:52] and then this one here would be Village Residential.

[34:56] So that was what I put together with the help

[35:00] of center regional planning agencies, GIS specialist.

[35:05] The questions I would have for you is,

[35:07] does this look like an acceptable sort of, I guess, flow to

[35:11] what you would hope to, to present to the public?

[35:14] We would certainly have some type of feedback form available

[35:17] for anybody who attends.

[35:18] That way they can tell us what they think.

[35:21] And then my hope was that you could maybe

[35:25] identify some dates when these open houses could take place.

[35:29] So my thought, if you don't look at item C, which I realized

[35:32] after the fact, I'm like, oh,

[35:33] item C in the agenda says the agenda for September.

[35:35] We don't want to have to relive this meeting.

[35:37] My thought was actually the,

[35:39] that maybe you would cancel your October meeting

[35:41] and hold these open houses in place of that meeting.

[35:45] And then, and matter of fact, you could do that night,

[35:48] you know, the evening of the, of the October,

[35:50] although I think I'm out of town, so maybe

[35:51] that's a bad time, but, but we can figure out dates

[35:54] that would work and then probably in November have

[35:58] that be part of the agenda is to discuss what you heard and,

[36:03] and if if staff were to happen to meet with anybody

[36:05] that couldn't make it as well, we

[36:06] could bring you that feedback.

[36:07] So I don't know, gimme your thoughts

[36:10] and then if we can maybe look at a calendar

[36:11] and figure out dates, that would be great. So how

[36:15] - Many total pluss do - You have? Seven.

[36:17] - Seven? Yes. Alright.

[36:18] And you think you can get 'em to fit around here then?

[36:21] - Yeah, I think we should be able

[36:22] to get them to fit around here.

[36:23] They're not as big as ones we've used in the past.

[36:25] They're not the massive epl. Right.

[36:27] So I think they'll be a little smaller.

[36:29] Probably fit a few here on the table

[36:30] and then we'll move chairs out

[36:32] of the way just so folks can walk around.

[36:35] - And I do think the important thing is it does,

[36:37] this does show that we're looking at this comprehensively

[36:40] and even though it did kind of start off as a parking issue,

[36:43] that is kind of a, a back, you know, kind

[36:47] of a back burner part of it.

[36:48] Now it's the only thing we're doing is, is fixing some

[36:53] of our existing park,

[36:54] or I should say fixing, I should say revising some

[36:57] of the parking regulations to make the, the core part

[37:01] of the village, you know, a little more developable

[37:04] to attract, you know, some businesses are allowing them

[37:08] to expand knowing that and so that they park.

[37:13] We don't have a parking problem,

[37:14] we had an Ordinance problem.

[37:16] So we have enough parking to provide, recognizing

[37:20] that we still have to have some regulations

[37:23] for expanded uses.

[37:24] But we're not, we're trying

[37:25] to lessen some of those regulations.

[37:27] And also of course we're trying to protect the, you know,

[37:30] the residential area, nature of, of the village itself.

[37:35] And you know, as was brought up earlier tonight, we want

[37:39] to keep burg as burg.

[37:41] And so that, I think this will help do that.

[37:44] And so I I think it's great. Okay.

[37:48] I'm looking forward to it. And,

[37:50] - And I can send these out to the commission in advance

[37:52] that way if you wanna Yeah,

[37:53] I I would if you wanna familiarize yourself, I'm

[37:55] - Wondering if you, if you also maybe could have it

[37:57] on the website for, for the public to get

[38:00] to if they wanted to look at it. Yeah,

[38:02] - We could definitely do that. Yeah. Yeah.

[38:04] - So yeah, I'd like to,

[38:08] you know, come in prepared.

[38:09] So, 'cause people start asking you all kinds of questions.

[38:13] - Right. - And so

[38:20] I think, so the, the October meeting

[38:23] would be the 19th, is that correct? It

[38:26] - Would've been the 19th now I'm out of town

[38:29] the first part of that week.

[38:31] - Oh, so you're not here the 19th?

[38:33] - I'm not here the 19th. And I

[38:34] - See why you wanted the 19th.

[38:36] - Well, no, I actually suggested you don't do it.

[38:37] That after I realized it, I said wait a minute, I'm not,

[38:40] I'm not here that, that day.

[38:41] So No, I was gonna suggest maybe the following week

[38:48] that way, that way it gives us time

[38:49] to get notice out to residents too.

[38:51] I wanna make sure folks are aware, we wanna send letters

[38:53] to people who are actually in the study area

[38:56] or at least the area that would be

[38:57] rezoned if this were to go forward.

[39:00] So I would say probably later in the month would be better

[39:02] just to make sure we can get that notice out.

[39:05] - So are you still thinking of Monday though?

[39:08] - Well, if we do that Monday the 26th,

[39:11] I have a meeting at COG that night at seven.

[39:14] It's the general forum meeting.

[39:15] So we could do the daytime meeting on the 26th

[39:18] and do the evening meeting later that week if you wanted.

[39:23] And I don't know that every planning commission member has

[39:26] to attend both meetings,

[39:27] but it would be nice to have a few of you there to walk

[39:30] around and engage with residents as they attend.

[39:34] - So, well let's just say if we're talking like the 26th,

[39:38] 27th and 28th

[39:43] - Evening of the 20,

[39:44] - Definitely wanna stay away from Friday.

[39:46] - Yeah. Evening of the 28th would not work either.

[39:48] There's a board budget meeting

[39:50] that night. So this room will be,

[39:52] - Maybe you pick the date.

[39:54] - Well, I can maybe. - What about daytime on the 26th?

[39:57] How about, how about later evening on the 20?

[39:58] How about the later part of like the

[40:00] 22nd or somewhere in there

[40:02] - Of the - October. October 22nd.

[40:06] - October 22nd. There's also, - When are you getting back?

[40:08] - There's also a budget meeting that night as well.

[40:10] - Yeah, February then

[40:11] - It's looking better.

[40:13] I was, I I think the earliest

[40:15] that would work would be the week of the 26th.

[40:17] That's probably the earliest that the room would be

[40:19] available and I would be available

[40:22] - The 27th then - I I the 27th would be fine if you wanted

[40:26] to do the evening of the 27th, we could do that.

[40:28] - Sure. And then what, what would be a good daytime 28th

[40:34] Or, or you said there was budget that day? The 26th.

[40:36] - The 26th or the 28th would be fine in the daytime.

[40:39] That would be fine. I figure we can do like an a

[40:41] noon if that works.

[40:45] - Everybody okay. With a

[40:48] - 27th at night, you know, what time during

[40:52] when your time's gonna be?

[40:54] - I figured probably seven o'clock,

[40:56] - October 27th, - Seven o'clock.

[40:58] Yeah. And the daytime one,

[41:02] - You want to, we can do the 26th if you want at at noon.

[41:05] At noon. Does that work?

[41:09] - Or the 28th? If that's if something that comes up.

[41:13] - Sure. That works too. - 28th now

[41:17] - I'm just saying I'm just put thrown out two options.

[41:19] If I'm coming in all this planning process,

[41:21] we find another conflict. But

[41:24] - Yeah, I think the only thing that might be problematic

[41:26] for having both of them in the same week would be if a

[41:29] resident's out of town that week,

[41:30] they're pretty much not gonna be able to

[41:32] - Make it.

[41:33] Well, and again, I think if,

[41:35] if you can put it on the website

[41:36] and then maybe give them an opportunity to

[41:39] - Contact - One of us.

[41:40] - Yeah, that would work. - That's

[41:44] what I was gonna say is make sure people have ability

[41:46] to do virtual input.

[41:48] - Yep, we can do that. Thanks Kelly

[41:54] - In all.

[41:59] - All right, so - Does the evening one then we're going

[42:02] to say is on the 27th? Is that

[42:04] - That's what I have.

[42:05] 27th at 7:00 PM Okay.

[42:07] And then noon on the 26th for the the daytime one.

[42:12] - Okay. - And we'll try

[42:13] to get those notices out here in the next week

[42:16] or so. That way people are aware.

[42:18] - Okay, that sounds great.

[42:19] - You'll have something that we can look up

[42:21] before we just show up.

[42:23] - No, I will, I will definitely send all of these flyer

[42:26] or these posters out to you in advance.

[42:28] That way you can look at 'em

[42:29] and kind of familiarize yourself.

[42:31] And then as far as online goes, we'll either put the posters

[42:36] online or I might talk with the planning agency

[42:39] to see if they could do what's called a story map

[42:41] where it's just a, we did that for the rural areas

[42:44] and I think we did it for the small area plan

[42:45] where you can just go online and kind of scroll through a

[42:48] a story format and with,

[42:50] there'll already be maps preloaded into it

[42:52] and then at the end we can have a feedback section.

[42:54] That way it's all in one.

[42:56] That might be the easiest for folks. Yeah. Like that idea.

[42:59] Yeah. So I'll work on having that put together too.

[43:03] - Okay. All right. That sounds great. I

[43:06] - And you're gonna cancel October?

[43:07] That's the, that's the plan here.

[43:10] - No, October 16th. Well we'll have an open house. Yeah,

[43:13] - You'll have this - Instead.

[43:14] Yes. So, all right, that sounds good.

[43:19] I'm looking forward to it. Anything else on that?

[43:24] Okay, we'll move on to the agenda for September. It'll

[43:28] - Be November, - September

[43:30] - 'cause we're already in September. I

[43:31] - Oh, okay. I made

[43:33] - A note in my mind to change that and did not do it

[43:35] before the agenda went out.

[43:37] So in addition to whatever feedback you get,

[43:43] - Tomorrow's the first day of fall.

[43:44] I can't believe that. You

[43:46] - Know, in addition, I think

[43:47] to talking about whatever feedback you get from the village

[43:50] open houses, I would also suggest you start talking about

[43:52] your work plan for next year.

[43:54] - Okay. - Those would be the two items I would recommend

[43:56] you have on your agenda in November.

[43:59] - Well I'd sure like to get some more parking on

[44:00] - And I usually usually appoint a nominating committee I

[44:05] think in November too, don't I?

[44:07] - Your bylaws were changed.

[44:08] That's no longer part of the process.

[44:10] You're gonna follow a process more similar to

[44:12] what the board would do, which is

[44:13] to just have a nomination in an election rather than having

[44:16] a a nominating committee.

[44:19] - Oh, did we do that? We did, - Yeah. Bob and

[44:22] - I drank beer.

[44:23] I thought we kept the nominating committee, but

[44:26] - I'm pretty sure your bylaws,

[44:27] when you admitted them, you decided

[44:29] - To take that out.

[44:30] I have no reason to drink.

[44:33] - Took another reason away.

[44:36] - You are welcome to meet

[44:38] and I buy all you want for whatever reason.

[44:44] So those were the two items I have.

[44:46] I don't know Todd, if you anticipate any plans. I don't.

[44:49] No, not currently. I don't.

[44:53] - Okay. Well that gives us, that gives us a lot

[44:56] for the next two months then.

[44:59] So I'll move on to reports.

[45:02] I know Todd, you already passed around.

[45:04] Yeah, I think, yeah, you need to send them back.

[45:08] And so Centre Region Planning Commission.

[45:13] Jeff, do you have a Yeah,

[45:14] - We have a meeting.

[45:16] Hey, we discussed data centers pretty much

[45:19] as we did tonight, so there's not much more to say.

[45:22] I guess I told you what I learned.

[45:25] The A RL at the innovation park is moving forward.

[45:29] They've got proper permitting for sewer

[45:32] and water I guess to, to hooked up

[45:37] then we would, we talked a while about the proposed Zoning

[45:39] on 200 Allen Street.

[45:41] I think that's Addison Court

[45:46] as I got this, you probably know more.

[45:48] It's like, will the Borough bail us out for 15

[45:51] and a half million or we want a Zoning Ordinance

[45:54] to raise the building to 75 feet.

[45:58] Of course we agreed with the planning commission there

[46:03] that no, on the raising, they've already set their Zoning

[46:07] to be at 45 feet on that side of Beaver Avenue.

[46:10] And so they wanted a permit to read

[46:13] and you know what they would do if they got that through,

[46:17] they'd knock the building down.

[46:19] Right. And somebody would buy it

[46:21] and put up student housing at 75 feet.

[46:23] So that makes absolutely no sense.

[46:24] It's like being held hostage

[46:27] because I think the place is 30% empty

[46:31] because it's in such bad repair.

[46:33] Oh really? Yeah, I mean it just doesn't make sense.

[46:36] They gave them a tax break to have the place,

[46:38] they gave them money so that they would be low rent

[46:41] for people and then the owner did not take care

[46:44] of the building and make were major repairs to it.

[46:46] Now he wants a bail out

[46:48] or please change the Zoning to 75 feet.

[46:51] That's the way I read it.

[46:53] Maybe I got it wrong,

[46:54] but it didn't make any sense to me. So, and then

[46:58] - I guess they agreed with you.

[47:00] - We all said no.

[47:02] Yeah, and then we had a discussion,

[47:04] more discussion on the comprehensive plan and,

[47:09] and the land use map and it's moving forward.

[47:13] - Okay. All right. Thanks Jeff.

[47:17] Peggy, did you have a technical committee meeting?

[47:20] - I was not able to attend the meeting so I don't have a

[47:23] - Report.

[47:24] Okay. Alright.

[47:27] Recent action by the board of Supervisors at

[47:30] - Their August 10th meeting,

[47:31] the board approved the Rocky Ridge final

[47:33] subdivision plan and that was

[47:35] - Basically just a minor land swap

[47:37] and future dedication of East K Street to the Township.

[47:41] Anticipate the Township taking all

[47:43] of the streets in Rocky Ridge

[47:45] at a special meeting this Wednesday was on their agenda

[47:50] for the September meeting but was unable to be acted upon.

[47:52] But after Wednesday we should have all

[47:55] of the existing streets in Rocky Ridge as part

[47:57] of the Township Street network board.

[48:00] Also discussed amendments to the SDO

[48:01] and Zoning Ordinance to require the postage

[48:03] of signage when the subdivision land development

[48:06] or planned residential development plan is submitted.

[48:09] That was submitted to the, OR sent to the CRPC for review

[48:12] and will be considered

[48:14] for adoption at the October board meeting.

[48:16] And then at their meeting last week,

[48:18] the board approved the John w Tennis minor subdivision plan,

[48:20] which proposes combining two lots

[48:22] along Bowl Avenue into one parcel.

[48:24] I believe it's still up here on the board behind you.

[48:26] That was submitted probably back in August.

[48:29] So it wasn't on any of your

[48:30] previous planning commission agendas.

[48:32] And they also discussed the future land use map

[48:34] and moved that item forward to the CRPC

[48:38] - Two officer.

[48:40] - It's the, the old tennis lamp shop property

[48:42] that pink line highlighted there has always gone right

[48:46] through the middle of the property

[48:47] and the property owner wants to remove that so

[48:49] that it has one lot rather than two

[48:52] - Right through the house.

[48:55] Okay. So sure

[48:56] - The property line's good was yeah. But yeah,

[48:59] - So okay.

[49:02] I roof looks good.

[49:04] - Doesn't leak anymore. - That's great.

[49:07] So status of land development plans.

[49:09] You mentioned Rocky Ridge section six

[49:12] and this King minor subdivision

[49:15] plan that's new, is that right?

[49:17] Yeah. And

[49:22] so is that the lot was subdivided at one time

[49:24] and now I want to consolidate again. That

[49:26] - Was part of the, one of the Hawk Ridge plans.

[49:29] The two lots that have frontage on Academy Street

[49:35] are being combined into one lot now.

[49:37] They were bought by the same person.

[49:39] - Okay. Alright.

[49:42] So instead of, yeah, so cut the number of houses from two

[49:46] to one in theory

[49:48] and save the Yeah.

[49:52] And help out with some

[49:53] of the drainage maybe coming down the hill there.

[49:57] And does that, that's a minor plan so we, we won't do that.

[50:00] Yes. Okay. Okay.

[50:03] Anything else for the good of the order tonight?

[50:07] If not, I will accept a motion to Adjourn. So moved.

[50:11] Alright. Aye second. I second. Alright Peggy. Okay.

[50:15] All in favor of adjourning say aye. Aye.

[50:19] - Aye. - Thanks. All opposed? Okay, that motion carries.

[50:23] We are adjourned.

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9/21/26 Harris Township Planning Commission

Agenda

Transcript