[0:05] Good evening everyone. We're going to get started. Uh thanks for coming out

[0:10] tonight for our track redevelopment meeting. We're still waiting on a couple

[0:14] people, but I figure we'll get started and we'll we'll roll right in. Um just a

[0:20] couple house. By the way, I'm Terry for those of you who don't know me. I'm the

[0:24] burough administrator and economic development director. very excited to

[0:28] have um the opportunity to present kind of where we are on this long awaited

[0:32] project. Um but a couple just pointers, housekeeping items. Um we will be

[0:39] recording the meeting. We are zooming the meeting uh and so everybody will

[0:44] have the opportunity who couldn't be here tonight to watch the video and

[0:49] download uh the slide deck uh from our website after the meeting. So that's all

[0:54] going to be available. I've gotten that question a couple times. Our website's

[0:58] uh hpb.com. So, um you can take as many notes as you

[1:04] like. Uh but you'll also be able to um download the slides for yourself um

[1:09] afterwards. Um with that, I think that's that's it. Um there will be opportunity

[1:14] for questions and comments, but we're going to get through the presentation

[1:18] deck first and um we'll uh do the questions at the end and we'll stay as

[1:24] long as the questions in the room. All right. Thank you. And with that, I'd

[1:29] like to introduce Mayor Foster. She's going to kick us off uh get the program.

[1:39] Good evening everyone and evening. >> Thank you all for coming out on a

[1:42] Thursday night. Um it's exciting to be here and to talk about where we are with

[1:48] this project, this very very very very long waited project and um we showed you

[1:54] some slides a few years ago now and um we have

[2:00] wrapped up what we're going to do. We're looking forward to having

[2:03] groundbreaking. But before we do that, we wanted was to

[2:06] show you where we are in the process and to get any insights or final inputs that

[2:13] you may have. But I'm really excited about getting the project going because

[2:16] it's been over 20 years in the waiting for us to get something in our downtown

[2:21] to keep our town um create a thrivable downtown. And that's the goal is to

[2:27] create more traffic in our downtown, have our town stay alive because if it

[2:32] stays the same way it is, it's not on a good track. But I strongly believe that

[2:36] this is going to be a part of a project that will help to rejuvenate our

[2:40] downtown. And with that said, I'm going to

[2:44] acknowledge my council member. We have council member Jason Pollston, council

[2:49] member Hail, Council Member Hirs in the room with us tonight. And also I want to

[2:54] say a special thanks to our economic development chair um Terry Jover. She

[2:59] has put in yman's worth of work on this project and I can't begin to thank her

[3:04] enough from you know the dayto-day and us going over every facet of the project

[3:11] and revisions after revisions. Thank you, Terry. And also, Chris Kazenza,

[3:16] want to thank you for your hard work on this because many, many times we've been

[3:20] on the phone and trying to make sure that the stuff fits. And Joe Bowman,

[3:26] can't say how much I rely on your help and your guidance and all the legal ease

[3:32] through this process. But with that said, I'm going to introduce you to the

[3:36] the chair of our economic development committee, and that's council member

[3:41] Hail. And at this time I'm going to ask him to come up and say a few words

[3:44] because I see Bry's here and I think that I would love for you to lend your

[3:48] voice to this conversation. Thank you.

[3:56] » Thank you very much, Mayor. Is this working well? Oh, there we go. Okay. Um,

[4:00] I just wanted to to to say a couple things and and add my sincere thanks to

[4:04] Chris and to Joe and to Terry, to our professional staff um for the tremendous

[4:09] amount of work that it takes um to bring a project like this to fruition. Um the

[4:14] pictures that we've seen and the pictures that you're going to see

[4:16] tonight um we'll show you the front, show the aside, show you the room, show

[4:21] you give you quite amount of detail. But when you think about the number of

[4:24] things that we have to do to figure out that the sewer works and that the

[4:28] streets work and all of those things, it really is an amazing um amount of

[4:32] technical work um at the city, at the burough level, at the county level, at

[4:36] the state level. And it really has been sort of a an eye openening a process for

[4:43] me to see what it takes to have a de development like this come to fruition.

[4:47] Um as the mayor said, this is a long time coming. Um we have been thinking

[4:52] about things to do to revitalize downtown um uh for over 20 years. Um

[4:57] this particular project um we first went out to bid to to think about this um

[5:02] over five years ago. We've had hundreds of meetings, hundreds of of sessions

[5:07] working out the details of this and and this is a a great opportunity to see

[5:12] where we've come out and where this um where this project is going to go. This

[5:16] project has been designed from day one to try and bring more people right on

[5:20] the avenue. Bring more people to the avenue, more people to the businesses,

[5:24] and more people to our community. Um, and it is also um uh exciting to see

[5:30] that as this project at the at track C right next door on Third Avenue, we're

[5:35] moving right along with our our project for a downtown park for turning the

[5:39] third burrow plaza. Um, so right near there at Burough Square, excuse me,

[5:44] sorry, it's Burough Square. Marketing all the time. Um, Burough Square where

[5:47] we're going to have have not only just um the excitement of this new

[5:53] development, but right next to it um uh we're going to have a public space, a

[5:58] very public park right on a street. And so those things are moving in tandem. Um

[6:03] this is going to change Highland Park. There's no doubt about that. It's going

[6:05] to change it. We think it's going to change for the better. I think it's

[6:08] going to revitalize businesses up and down the avenue. We think it's going to

[6:11] revitalize um and energize uh uh Highland Park in a way that we've seen

[6:18] through the a process in other towns that has followed. Um we follow

[6:22] Matuchin, we follow Somerset, we follow a number of different places where a

[6:26] project just like this um has really kickstarted and and kicked off a town.

[6:31] Um so we're really really excited to this um uh we have some great pictures

[6:36] tonight. of great professionals um to talk about this.

[6:40] But as all of this teamwork on the public side um has has brought this

[6:46] together, we're also partners with our developer um our developer is Brett

[6:50] Tansman and Garden Homes. He's here in the back today. Um uh Brett right there

[6:56] all the way in the back. Um, and Brett is is um since day one of this project,

[7:02] Brett has looked at this um I think with the eye of this is a good project for

[7:06] him. Without a doubt, this is good, but it is also a good project for a town

[7:10] that he knows very well. Um, and in fact grew up in um in in some respects. Um,

[7:16] he's been a partner in this. Um we've had disagreements, we've had hugs, we've

[7:20] had all of these things, but we've come to a place where we think that this

[7:24] project um uh as a partnership um really is going to be a great thing for for the

[7:30] town. Um did Brett want to say do Brett you want to say any words or you want to

[7:35] » Sure. I'm happy to after presentation whatever.

[7:39] » Come on up Brett. Let's uh

[7:49] also like to recognize that Councilman Councilwoman Norma Vargas has joined us

[7:53] as well. Um so um add that to the mix. So um you know Brett just to couple

[8:01] words about your your company, where you're from and just introduce yourself.

[8:05] You'll be around for questions and all that. I think that's great. But after

[8:08] we're done, we're gonna hear from our professionals. We're going to hear um

[8:11] walk through the project. Um we're looking forward to questions. We're

[8:15] looking forward to um a discussion. And we're excited from here. Right.

[8:20] » Um good evening everyone, mayor, council,

[8:26] uh professionals, members of the community, uh our neighbor, Pastor Seth.

[8:32] Um, my name is Brett Tansman. Uh, and we're

[8:37] I'm part of represented as the the developer and developer garden homes.

[8:42] Um, we have a long history of of working in many communities uh redevelopment

[8:50] and I personally, as as Councilman Hill said, have a deep uh history in Highland

[8:56] Park. Uh I think five generations of my family have have lived in this

[9:01] community. Um and it's a special place and we want to build a project and I

[9:07] hope you'll you'll see and this is not a site plan application today. It's just a

[9:12] high level conversation but we want to build a project that uh I want to be

[9:17] just as proud of it as hopefully all of you are um and really have a deep impact

[9:24] on the community for generations to come. So, I didn't want to take up too

[9:28] much time. I'm happy to answer questions. Um, and hopefully down the

[9:35] street you've seen we've developed redeveloped the Frederick. Um and

[9:40] there's a number of other projects in the surrounding community uh that we can

[9:44] point to where we had a positive um relationship with the municipality and

[9:50] with the public where at first they had concerns and uh ultimately they they

[9:56] know that what we say we're going to deliver we're going to deliver. So we're

[10:00] excited about the prospects of of this project and the opportunity and um just

[10:06] grateful to be here. So, thank you.

[10:13] » All right. Thanks, uh, Brett. And, and you'll stick around, so if there's some

[10:17] questions, great. Um, so good. Oh, I should have probably put this up

[10:22] earlier. Welcome and introductions. Check. Um, but what we're about to go

[10:27] through and then as you can see, we'll get to questions and comments. Um, we

[10:31] are I'm going to kind of do a refresher on the project because we recognize

[10:35] we've been in kind of collaboration negotiation mode with Garden Homes for

[10:40] quite some time and the community hasn't heard about other than we're working on

[10:46] it. We're working on it uh in a while. So, I'm going to kind of click through

[10:50] some overview sides of kind of what we're trying to achieve with the project

[10:53] and then I'm going to hand it over to our redevelopment council, Joe Bowman,

[10:57] to walk us through the terms of the redevelopment agreement that we've all

[11:01] kind of we think we're we're pretty much there uh in terms of the things that

[11:05] need to be memorialized in that agreement. And we've done a fiscal

[11:09] analysis related to a potential financial agreement as well that Joel

[11:13] will walk us through and kind of give you a sense for if this moves forward,

[11:17] what the timelines would look like and so forth. And a lot of which is

[11:21] articulated in the reveloping room. Feel free to sit over here. You can just stay

[11:26] stand over here too. Um so with that, I'd like to just uh click in to um kind

[11:34] of where have we been? Oh, thanks. Um we uh you might remember I presented a

[11:40] version of this uh a few years ago. In 2005 we adopted a downtown redevelopment

[11:46] plan that included uh what we're now calling the track Clayite which I should

[11:50] say is between on Ritton between second and third uh southside. Um and we've

[11:57] been plugging away and a few years ago in 2021

[12:01] uh we took a new approach where we identified four tracks downtown AB C and

[12:06] D where we did sight specific redevelopment plan for that. We issued

[12:11] an RFP that same year. We took some time, got proposals in and garden homes

[12:16] was one of those proposals that we liked and we ultimately ended up designating

[12:21] them as the conditional developer for track C, the site we're talking about

[12:24] tonight. Um, over between 22 and 26, we took a lot of time. We had a community

[12:31] meeting in 2024 where we showed a lot of photos and answer a lot of questions. We

[12:36] took a lot of that input to heart in the in the design work that's been going on.

[12:39] Um but uh essentially we did expand the redevelopment area because there were

[12:45] additional tracks that Garden Homes had acquired and brought into the project.

[12:49] Um we amended the redevelopment plan accordingly in line with the vision of

[12:54] the project that came together in 2425. Um and then most recently the final

[13:00] parcel kind of was a way to put a point in it was uh purchased in 2026

[13:06] uh just about a month ago. So, that was kind of the last piece of the puzzle, so

[13:12] to speak, so that we could move the project forward. Um, and now we're in

[13:17] the process of we've been discussing our redevelopment agreement, which Joe's

[13:20] going to walk you through shortly, um, and the terms of a potential financial

[13:24] agreement. and um Garden Homes has been pulling their materials and actually has

[13:30] begun the process for a site plan application which would be if we come to

[13:35] a redevelopment agreement would be the the next step that could take place in

[13:39] October or November of this year. So just to give you a sense of the projects

[13:43] kind of finally pulling together after all this time of discussion and I must

[13:48] confess the question I get more often than not now is like is anything ever

[13:52] going to happen? Not I don't want this to happen. So, I hope you'll see we've

[13:56] made some progress and we're ready to move forward. But I I promise a

[14:01] refresher course for some of you who may or may not have been uh at our previous

[14:05] meetings or familiar with the project, but currently you're you're back to New

[14:09] Brunswick. You're standing across the street on Raron Avenue looking uh

[14:13] towards Second South Second. And here's these are the exact pictures we showed

[14:18] in June of 2024. I couldn't believe it was 2024. Um, and this is a concept

[14:25] rendering of what we would like to build here. And similarly, walking down the

[14:31] street a little further away, we've got another we kind of a

[14:36] brownstone walk up. And then we have um some covered uh public space, which I'll

[14:44] talk about in a little bit. And then just looking the other way, looking down

[14:48] from uh we're looking at uh that's the building

[14:53] looking down towards New Brunswick. So these are the same pictures we showed

[14:57] way back when and I'm pleased to report that after a lot of due diligence on the

[15:02] part of garden homes from geotechnical to storm water design and engineering

[15:09] uh they figured out a way to build a project. And so that's what a lot of the

[15:13] um due diligence that we've been doing these last few years at this point has

[15:18] been to figure out how to make it work and to fully program the building. How

[15:22] many units can it really support parking spaces and things like that? Um this is

[15:27] my little scheme, so I'll take full credit for any mistakes that are on this

[15:32] this detail. But just to break down the building a little more, it's one

[15:37] building, but it's designed to look like five. So that I, you know, if you saw as

[15:41] we walked down the street, you could see different typologies,

[15:45] you know, different setbacks and things because we really recognize it's large

[15:49] scale for Highland Park, but we want it to fit in. Um, so it's one building as

[15:54] this diagram and this is really kind of like the first floor. See if this works.

[15:58] So at the corner, this is the south second and corner division is a

[16:02] restaurant. Fairly large one footpoint there. Uh these are those brownstone

[16:07] style residential units that we saw on the rendering. Um moving forward, this

[16:12] is a a pedestrian connection through to Magnolia Street and to Raritin, which

[16:17] I'll talk a little more about. Um this has now been reinvisioned as potential

[16:22] retail or commercial space as of right now. Um a lobby space that was this is

[16:28] all fronting Ritan. And then this is very exciting for us. uh indooroutdoor

[16:34] public space that the burrow can use. The indoor space will be exclusive to

[16:38] our operations and then this is a shared uh covered outdoor space uh that both

[16:44] the residents here but also the general public can utilize as well. And then

[16:48] kind of capping things off here uh retail and commercial at the end. So

[16:52] we've got it kind of smack, you know, that was you know a little bit more

[16:57] commercial than maybe we thought when we first started the project. Um very kind

[17:01] of the parking is interesting. It's on two levels. They don't speak to each

[17:05] other. You can't drive from the lower level to the upper level. So you access

[17:09] the lower level from south second. And uh this way and again this is just a

[17:15] first level scheme that I've imposed my own lines and drawings on. Um, and then

[17:22] the other way on the upper level, which is really more at grade when you're

[17:26] coming in off Magnolia Street, will be access from Magnolia Street. Importantly

[17:31] to the burrow, um, and highlighted in this yellow bar is we've kind of come to

[17:37] agreement that there'll be 40 public spots in perpetuity. Um and the ones on

[17:44] the surface lot that we're we've already utilized currently will remain as public

[17:50] spots in perpetuity. Um again uh I believe it's about um 27 on the surface

[17:58] lot and 13 interior, but it's definitely 40 total. So I'll let Brett speak to

[18:03] that if I got something wrong. Um, so we're really talking about, and I should

[18:08] mention the final programming came to 134 new apartments, downtown living with

[18:15] 20 of them, 15% being affordable. Um, about 14,000 square feet of retail and

[18:20] commercial space broken down as I kind of write there on the screen for you. um

[18:25] that indoor outdoor space comes to a total of 6,000 square feet of indoor

[18:29] outdoor space, the 40 spaces of permanent public parking, and then a

[18:33] total of 250 spaces. So that's kind of like the broad strokes of the project

[18:38] that some of you who may not be as familiar with it. I feel like I've been

[18:43] studying it for four years. Uh so sorry if I I went through it. A couple really

[18:48] important things that we want to highlight, and this is just a kind of a

[18:51] zoom in on the landscape plan. Um, we this pedestrian connection I mentioned

[18:56] before, it it is ADA accessible. There is an elevator or stairs that one can

[19:02] utilize. I'll let somebody else who knows the the program better than I

[19:06] explain exactly how it works. And very importantly, in the lower left here, um,

[19:11] it's designed to feel welcoming to the public because it is a public access

[19:15] point through that we are a midblock crossing there. Um, and it's important

[19:20] and uh, Garden Homes has agreed to some probably a sculpture of some sort, maybe

[19:25] some public art mural up here. We're going to negotiate that and we're going

[19:29] to come together on that, but they've committed to that and in our

[19:32] discussions, which we're really excited about as an opportunity to to really

[19:36] personalize the project to Highland Park. Um, this is that covered uh,

[19:42] public space outside of the indoor community space. Um, it'll be furnished

[19:47] and finished for us uh by Garden Homes and they're going to help us maintain

[19:51] it. We'll also have a role in keeping it nice and maintain maintaining it, but

[19:56] it'll include lighting. Both of these spaces will be well lit and inviting and

[20:00] really kind of add a lot to the downtown. Um, importantly, um, and we

[20:06] heard from our shade tree folks especially, we're going to have new tree

[20:11] pits where we can and we're going to have enhanced tree pits so we can

[20:14] hopefully see our trees really thrive and they also serve a better green

[20:18] infrastructure purpose. Um, and there's also landscaping uh throughout which if

[20:23] you're really into the into that, you can follow their application to the

[20:27] planning board uh where they'll go into a lot more detail about uh what they

[20:31] have in mind and and the finishing touches. So, in a nutshell, um this is

[20:36] how the project is going to work. Uh one thing I should mention is from the rear,

[20:43] while I don't have a good drawing of this, the building stays to three

[20:48] floors. uh in the back on this area and this is an amenity deck area uh that's

[20:53] intentional to step back from the church property and from some of the

[20:58] neighboring properties thereby so we don't the the taller portion of the

[21:02] building will be closer you know in this more front part closer to rare nav which

[21:08] was all stuff we put in the re uh redevelopment plan to try to manage uh

[21:14] uh putting a larger building where one wasn't for I think I covered all my

[21:20] bullets, so we'll move on. Oh, this is just a concept plan for what would be

[21:25] our interior um community space. It's basically a multi-purpose room. We're

[21:31] envisioning it for Wouldn't it be great to have uh art exhibits coming through,

[21:36] other kinds of performances potentially? And we may be some of these things may

[21:41] move, but we'll definitely have full functioning restroom, a a more of a

[21:46] closed office setup and a pantry as well. So if we want to host meetings or

[21:50] events in there, we have what we need to do that. And then also really neat,

[21:55] there will be some larger doors here um so that they can be kind of opened up.

[22:00] So if we have an indoor outdoor event um we can accommodate that as well. Um, and

[22:05] so, you know, we get we get the full benefit of the 6,000 square foot of

[22:10] space. Um, and then I just can't end without, you

[22:15] know, by the way, we've got another project which you heard a couple times

[22:19] mentioned. We have our Traxxy redevelopment project, but then we're

[22:22] also have been working hard on the Burough Square Plaza, uh, which is on

[22:27] South Third Avenue, uh, the the closed portion of South Third being from where

[22:32] my my arrow is here. Um and then our expanded parking port and support

[22:37] functions will be over there. Um those are um you know this is integral because

[22:43] we know we'll be displacing activities from uh track C uh to this new

[22:50] refurbished space. Uh so we're really excited these two projects are coming

[22:54] together. Um, and just as a in case you haven't heard, these are this is a just

[22:59] a quick rendering of the Burough Square project looking from Raritin towards

[23:05] Magnolia Street. Um, there's a lot of information about that project up on our

[23:10] website as well. Happy to answer some questions, but we're really focused on

[23:14] uh the track portion of this, but the two things have been kind of discussed

[23:19] hand inand So, I just wanted to make sure everybody was oriented to, you

[23:22] know, what's happening where. Um, I think that was all I was going to cover

[23:27] and I and with that I was going to invite Joe to come walk you through the

[23:32] terms of the redevelopment agreement. Joe, that should work hopefully.

[23:37] Thanks.

[23:40] » Hey, Joe. How we doing? Awesome. Um,

[23:45] I'm going to take you through the document uh and talk to you about the

[23:48] finance of the project, but I would be remiss if I didn't sort of underscore

[23:54] the effort and what to get us from here to there. Clearly, there was a vision 20

[24:00] years ago or so about a redevelopment plan that just never took off, right? It

[24:05] just never happened. Didn't have legs. Nothing really. There was not a

[24:09] redevelopment project, I think, ever undertaken under that original plan. the

[24:13] governing body um with their planner and the

[24:17] professional team started to okay well that didn't work let's come up with a

[24:20] new redevelopment plan and we went down a process of identifying four areas in

[24:26] town where we felt redevelopment could actually happen uh tracks A B C and D

[24:32] and we picked those very strategically based upon what those projects where we

[24:36] think we had the highest likelihood of succeeding track C that we're talking

[24:41] about we identified in part because we owned some of the

[24:45] property which we thought was going to be an important component. Um and in

[24:49] initially and we envisioned back in the day as a much smaller project than we

[24:53] actually ended up with today um to our benefit. Um we en envisioned a smaller

[24:59] project because we were trying to sort of limited the the number of properties

[25:03] that would have to be involved in the private properties that make up this

[25:07] project that were not the public project. So we went down the path. We

[25:10] went through an RFP process which was very robust. We received several

[25:14] proposals. We have analyzed those proposals and after that process we

[25:19] selected uh garden homes. Now garden home. So garden home wasn't just sort of

[25:23] selected uh at will. They competed through a process. They made a

[25:28] compelling argument and at the time they had already decided that they believe in

[25:32] uh island park that they were going to start buying properties in this area. So

[25:37] they made a proposal that said, "We want to do this project." Oh, by the way, we

[25:40] started to acquire land in the property and we just completed a project with you

[25:45] on River Road and we think we did a good job. We hope you did, too. And we did.

[25:50] So, we selected them after this process. And that process included, as I'll

[25:53] describe to you a little bit, things like what's the purchase price going to

[25:56] be for the land? What's the project going to look like? We did that, you

[26:00] know, after about six or seven months of analysis as uh Terry described to you

[26:05] and then since then we've been working on the project. Why has it taken us so

[26:10] long? So along the way, one of the things Gardens Home has been doing which

[26:14] is incredibly beneficial is they've been acquiring the land and and third party

[26:18] transactions slowly acquiring all the parcels that make up this project. Why

[26:23] is that important for the borrow? Because without their efforts to acquire

[26:27] this property in third party transactions, we would have to be more

[26:30] aggressive about making that happen. So they took the yman's job of today

[26:35] acquiring all those properties which unless we sign agreement with them,

[26:38] they're at risk now for owning all that land without the ability to do a

[26:42] redevelopment project until they sign a redevelopment agreement with them. So

[26:45] they exhibited a significant amount of faith and trust in both us as a

[26:51] cooperative partner and in themselves as proving to us that they would be a good

[26:56] partner and we could come to an agreement. So through that process we

[26:59] had a couple of iterations of our redevelopment uh plan was amended as

[27:03] they would suggest as we sort of expected to our planner. We think we

[27:07] should do something different. We would do something different. We expanded the

[27:11] area. We uh made some bulk standard changes. all as a enter of to a process

[27:17] that would get us to today which we believe is a much better process and

[27:21] project than we began with when we first started this. It was smaller. but didn't

[27:26] control the land to today where they now own all of the land having worked with

[27:30] every single uh private property owner reached third party uh arms link

[27:36] transactions including with our good neighbor their good neighbor and uh our

[27:41] the church we who's been very cooperative with us frankly extremely

[27:45] helpful through the process so this sort of effort sort of coalesed to today so

[27:50] that project that you've seen is is a couple years in the making and along the

[27:54] way we did have a community meeting so that the community was sort of kept in

[27:58] at breast along the process but it took a while but you know like anything

[28:04] that's hard and difficult u it it's worth it it's really worth it we're

[28:09] really thrilled to sort of describe the project to you and as you as I present

[28:13] to the planning board I'm I'm confident that the public will participate in that

[28:18] process and also uh in uh be proud and happy with the result of this effort So

[28:25] the redevelopment agreement. So one of the things about redevelopment that

[28:28] doesn't exist in normal zoning is we uh we get to negotiate with the redeveloper

[28:35] certain things that we could not do under the municipal land use law, things

[28:40] like uh selling them property, things like uh community space, uh particular

[28:46] uh other particular requirements that I'm going to walk through with you

[28:49] today. So you but for being redevelopment, none of these things

[28:53] could happen. Well, we so we now have this zoning, this redevelopment plan

[28:57] that describes the the the contours of the project, the bulk standards that now

[29:04] is the zoning for this process. That agreement, that plan into it that

[29:08] requirement that they have to sign a redevelopment agreement with us before

[29:11] they can go to the plan board. So, that's the step we're at. We've

[29:15] negotiated a redevelopment agreement. Then I'm going to walk you through the

[29:18] terms and we're going to post it online and they're going to take action in our

[29:21] next meeting. So people will have heard about it today. They will have read it

[29:25] um online and then before we even have a vote. So there'll be plenty of time

[29:31] tonight in your leisure when you watch this video and or you read a

[29:35] redevelopment agreement to then be available to uh for when you actually

[29:39] take a vote. Um so under the redevelopment law, we had this

[29:43] opportunity to negotiate with garden homes for a number of things to make

[29:48] this project uh better than um than it would have other frankly under the mun

[29:54] language. So um this is sort of a summary of some

[30:00] of the critical terms that you're going to see in the redevelopment agreement.

[30:03] The redevelopment agreement is hundreds of pages with the the exhibits attached.

[30:07] Um so the purchase price is1 million uh $1.5 million. When we went through the

[30:12] competitive process, a number of the developers proposed to buy our land from

[30:18] us to do track city and the purchase prices from those proposals ranged from

[30:24] 400,000. Eric doesn't know this, he knows it now. $400,000

[30:29] to uh $1.2 million. So uh Brett in his proposal

[30:35] said, "I'll pay you between 1.2 2 1.5 and as of the last minute he was still

[30:40] very comfortable with 1.2 um but he's paying 1.5 um sort of an evidence of

[30:46] their willingness to uh negotiate harder than come to agreement. So this purchase

[30:51] price at the end of the day was the most that anyone offered to buy our land

[30:55] through the competitive process and it was the most that uh garden homes had

[31:00] said they would pay uh back when we did the process. So, we feel really good

[31:05] about this purchase price. This $1.5 million, by the way. I don't know how

[31:09] we're going to purchase it, but it but it could if we decide to help us fund

[31:13] the uh uh Pharaoh Plaza that's being that showed you pictures of it's 134

[31:20] residential units. Um, this is going to be a luxury project. Um, it's going to

[31:25] have some incredible amenities baked into it. If you ever go see, you can go

[31:30] see some of the other Garden Homes projects through the state of New

[31:32] Jersey. They're They're a quality developer with just quality projects.

[31:36] Um, of the 134 15% so 20 are going to be affordable housing and we afford to

[31:42] house. So 20 of those will be the affordable housing projects. Um, if you

[31:47] do the math 15% is 20.1, right? So how do you do 0.1 unit? Well,

[31:53] the way you do that is you come to an agreement. I'll describe it to you

[31:56] later. Under the law, there's a calculation for what a unit would cost

[32:00] and they can make a payment. So for the 0.1, they're going to make a payment

[32:03] into our affordable housing trust fund so that they satisfy the full 20.1 or

[32:07] the responsibilities on 134 units. But there's, as Terry described you, there's

[32:12] going to be 20 parking spaces. So we're going to deed them. We're going to sell

[32:15] them all of our land. So they're going to pay for all of our land at the 1.5

[32:20] million, but then they're gonna >> So it's 40 40

[32:23] » 40. I'm sorry. Sorry. Um, thank you. Uh, so by the way, jump

[32:30] in everybody whenever I if I get it wrong, I can use I can use all the help.

[32:38] Um, so um the 40 parking space um and uh um

[32:47] sorry and then our 6,000 square feet. Oh, I know. So they're going to sell us

[32:52] all the land, right? We're going to get entire all the property is going to be

[32:55] sold from our property, sold to them $1.5 million. Um, in exchange though,

[32:59] they're going to give us back the easement in perpetuity so we can occupy

[33:03] for the public can occupy those 40 spaces. So while we are selling them all

[33:07] of our land, 40 spaces will remain ours through a easement on the property. So

[33:14] we will retain through the easement the right for the public to park and that's

[33:18] been that was a really important component of it partly because of our

[33:21] neighbor who's uh people use that the public uses it. Um so we wanted to

[33:26] maintain that we continue to have availability for the public for those

[33:28] spaces. Um so in the agreement you're going to see we've sort of described

[33:34] some of the core responsibilities. An agreement is a partnership. It's it's

[33:37] public part public private partnership. So the developer is going to have the

[33:41] obl obligation to acquire the required properties. He's done it all now um as

[33:46] recently as this summer completed that process. He's got to get his approvals.

[33:49] He's got to arrange his financing. Uh he's going to have to construct all the

[33:53] public improvements, the infrastructure. He's going to have to deliver our

[33:56] affordable housing which will come with a deed restrictions so they stay

[33:59] affordable for 40 years. Um he's going to have to maintain the site and he

[34:04] continues to fund the bar. So uh through this process, all of the work that the

[34:09] burrows had to spend money on to have our our professionals do not unlike what

[34:14] you see at a landlord has been paid through an escro from for for from for

[34:18] from Garden Homes and Brett's company. So the w my time here today for example

[34:23] they're they're paying not the taxpayers they're paying they're paying the the

[34:27] free um our job here is to um we're going to participate in the process.

[34:31] You'll see in agreement there's certain specific things that we're going to have

[34:35] to do. For example uh we're going to move the transom um that's currently

[34:39] they've agreed to relocate it for us. we have to tell them where um so we have

[34:43] some sort of limited we got to cooperate help them along participate in progress

[34:47] meetings inspect it as appropriate um if they need an extension of time we have

[34:52] to consider it again determine where the pavilion relocation will go we haven't

[34:56] sorted that out they've agreed to put it where we tell them um and then you know

[35:01] there's going to be there's schedules that require government approvals

[35:04] project closing when you get occupancy when it gets completion it's a very

[35:10] regulated uh process that's going to you know

[35:15] could take us through the next year or year and a half to get to the opening of

[35:19] the facility. So the burough the purchase price is $

[35:24] 1.5 million. you'll see on one of our our agenda coming up uh not this meeting

[35:29] but the next meeting they'll be authorizing the purchase of sale

[35:32] agreement for the $1.5 million um with a closing uh so within 14 days of the

[35:39] receipt of the government approvals um and then it remains subject to certain

[35:43] conferences. This uh closing date is a very important timing for us. We do not

[35:49] want to release our property to them until the last minute when we sure

[35:53] they're ready to get started building um for a number of reasons. Uh we just

[35:59] don't want to be in a situation where they acquire a property for $1.5 million

[36:03] and nothing happens, right? So one of the concerns whenever you're in the

[36:07] redevelopment context is you sell your property and you get an Asbury Park. How

[36:11] many years ago already you have this monolith gets half built never gets

[36:14] completed. So in our documents, there's also this reverber clause. And the

[36:18] reverter clause says that if the developer acquires our property and

[36:23] doesn't commence construction or fails to complete the construction, we can

[36:27] take our property back under certain with certain conditions. We have to make

[36:29] sure the lender gets paid their money. But at the end of the day, it's designed

[36:33] to make sure that we don't expect this, but if something were to happen with our

[36:38] pro with this project, we want to be able to take our property back and and

[36:42] try again. Um, again, no expectation that would happen. Um, Brett's company

[36:48] wouldn't let that happen. I can't imagine if they ever had, honestly, they

[36:51] don't know where um, the banks wouldn't let it happen. But, but because it's

[36:55] public property, it's we have a fiduciary responsibility to the public,

[36:58] we insist on a reverter claw clause in the deed that indicates if if something

[37:03] fails along the way, we're going to take our property back again. Never expected

[37:07] to have to do that. So we we getting back to the

[37:12] redevelopment world versus the useful land use law. This is the things that we

[37:15] negotiate into the unit that we couldn't have done but for redevelopment. So we

[37:19] have our uh 3,000 square feet of indoor community space. There's going to be a

[37:23] lease. Everybody's also going to approve that. That lease is that they're going

[37:26] to lease they're going to build out our facility for us and they're going to

[37:30] lease it to us for a dollar. It's going to be for 50 years with 25 year renewal.

[37:34] So effectively a lease, you know, for very long before any of us are still in

[37:39] this in this room or still around. Um, so that's a that's a long-term lease.

[37:43] And then there's this outdoor space which is really cool. And as Terry

[37:46] described it, it's going it's being designed so that you can open the doors

[37:51] uh to have access to the indoor and the outdoor space at the same time. Sort of

[37:55] doubling the space for an event. uh because the outdoor space is covered and

[38:00] then the indoor space and it will be it's going to turn out to be a really

[38:02] cool opportunity for the uh for the municipality to uh figure out how to use

[38:07] that space and that's ours you know that's ours to use for the next hundred

[38:11] years and it's ours to program and to make the best of use of and you know

[38:17] that's money that Brett is forgoing right he could have leased this to

[38:21] somebody else he could have had a retail tenant in this project increase his

[38:24] revenues but as part of our negotiations and our community benefits It's he's

[38:28] turning over those square feet again finished for us so that we can enjoy for

[38:32] uh for the community for the public uh the 40 spaces you're aware of and then

[38:36] there we have these EV ready spaces and the public spaces u that they're also

[38:41] giving. So summarizing community outdoor space um also this pedestrian connection

[38:46] that Terry described and sort of showed to you. Uh we we're pretty excited about

[38:51] that opportunity because we see it if you see the pictures and when you I

[38:55] think when it's completed you'll see that it's it's really sort of this cool

[38:58] entryway into the into the garage. So, not into a necessarily exciting, sexy

[39:04] place, but into the garage, but it has the opportunity to have some really uh

[39:08] interesting artwork that they've agreed to light and work with us to have it be

[39:13] sort of a centerpiece to the building as as you will sort of walk as you want to

[39:17] if you want to pass through the middle of the building to go all the way

[39:20] through the public parking to the back. So, it's going to be sort of a pretty

[39:23] cool um uh public space in the sense that open. we're going to program with

[39:29] art in some other in a way to make it sort somewhat of a meaningful uh uh

[39:35] centerpiece for Highland Park. And it really uh when you see the design, it's

[39:39] very cool the way it um it's buried next to these town halls, right? So along

[39:44] their project, I don't know if we gave it enough credence, but they they're

[39:47] doing these uh walkups. So, so it's not your typical throw up a

[39:53] big multif family residential project. It has these this series of walkups that

[39:57] then lead into the restaurant on the corner which is like this beautiful

[40:00] anchor and then in the other direction uh more retail and and in fact near the

[40:05] end they added additional lot with some more retail again how the project

[40:08] evolved in a way where every every step of the way we sort of added something

[40:13] even more interesting again like this last that was a addition that I think

[40:17] was in the last couple months that last piece of retail on the corner which you

[40:21] know we were very happy about. So, um, that's the community benefits part. Oh,

[40:27] and yeah, oh, the the again the pavilion is going to get relocated.

[40:33] Um, so I know Highland Park, I know your council are particularly uh interested

[40:40] in um some of the things that are on this slide. They were definitely uh very

[40:46] by the way this mayor this governing body are were so in the weeds on this

[40:50] process um compared to you know you were blessed to have a governing body that

[40:54] spends the time energy ask the hard questions of our professional

[40:58] professionals challenges us to do a better job to do better on our

[41:01] negotiations. Um but this is a slide where they were particularly interested

[41:06] and that not not every client of mine is particularly interested in. So they were

[41:10] very interested in sustainable design, very interested in EV charging, very

[41:15] interested in universal design and very interested in making sure that this was

[41:18] an 100% electric building. So in the in the redevelopment agreement, it calls

[41:23] out that um there's not going to be gas uh stoves for example. Um this is going

[41:29] to be this is sustainable. So these are some of the things that are either in

[41:34] the redevelopment plan that uh our planner Chris was careful to put in and

[41:37] or we've included them in the redevelopment agreement but things that

[41:41] are that are uh designed to make this sustainable uh to rely on electricity

[41:45] instead of natural gas. Um and then to adopt you know all the sort of things

[41:50] that are listed there that ADA accessible everything is sort of laid

[41:55] out in that in that chart. Um again some of the sort of things are not that

[41:59] financial maybe not as um as interesting as community space but very important to

[42:06] this to this mayor of this governing body as we did the negotiations.

[42:11] Uh also uh Highland Park I know is particularly interested in its

[42:15] streetscape. Right. So we you have a very robust um downtown uh management

[42:21] commission. You have a very robust street commission. Um and uh I know

[42:25] Terry spends a lot of time interacting with them and directing the team uh to

[42:29] make sure that all those kinds of issues are being addressed. Are we addressing

[42:33] the interests of the downtown commandment commission? Are we

[42:36] addressing and the special improvement district? Are we addressing the concerns

[42:39] of the U treat commission? So all again also u sort of pet head pet issues for

[42:46] the governing body. We heard a lot from the governing body about the importance

[42:49] of uh streetscape. Uh and then the last one's over here. Um in our redevelopment

[42:55] agreement, we asked the redeveloper to engage in good faith efforts to try and

[43:00] hire local uh contractors, local Highland Park residents. Um and there's

[43:05] you when you'll see the re redevelopment, it'll describe on

[43:09] describe how they're going to go about that do that. I I have no doubt they're

[43:12] going to make good faith efforts to uh try and make that happen. There are

[43:16] legal limitations on what you can ask them require them to do or not. Um but

[43:20] they were they were more than happy to you know make these efforts and do all

[43:24] the things necessary to try and find uh local island park residents that um can

[43:30] you know their businesses that could benefit from this redevelopment project

[43:33] and the construction of it affordable housing again a very

[43:39] important uh component uh in Highland Park uh this project will provide the

[43:46] 15% affordable housing uh the the law on affordable housing housing is dictated

[43:51] by the state of New Jersey. So, this is the breakdown. They're going to have

[43:55] these these categories uh and these bedroom counts which tie back to the

[43:59] state New Jersey requirements that they will include. They'll we're going to put

[44:03] on their property. So, in the deed, there'll be another deed restriction

[44:08] that says that this this uh affordable housing requirements will continue for

[44:12] the next 40 years. In the past, it's been 30 years. Now, it's 40 years. Um,

[44:16] so, uh, under the current law, we we held them to the 40-year requirement.

[44:21] Um, and so, so these these affordable, uh, units and these numbers, um, will be

[44:28] available, uh, in this budget. So beating the 15% and continuing to

[44:33] continuing to meet our obligation to fair housing the New Jersey Constitution

[44:38] and then morally to the uh people that are required for housing in

[44:44] um and then by I talked to you about that point one it's worth $22,291

[44:50] so that's our fraction uh can we get another question? Yeah, sure. I'll ask.

[44:54] I just want to remember that. >> I want to ask a question on that slide.

[44:57] So, as long as we can come back, >> I will come back to slide. Yeah.

[45:03] » All right. So, because this is not your typical land use law, we're very

[45:07] involved in the process. So, baked into the redevelopment agreement, are not a

[45:11] lot of items that um some of them are typical in any construction project. Uh

[45:16] but we also put them into our contract. uh things like there'll be the

[45:20] pre-construction meeting where Garnomes meets with our professional team so

[45:24] everyone is on the same page when the construction begins. Uh pedestrian

[45:28] safety. So all this project it's going to be an enormous project going to be

[45:32] the largest ever. It's as you'll see later it's a 70 plus million dollar

[45:36] investment in our community. Um but we want to make sure the pedestrian is

[45:40] safe. Uh where the con construction and parking is going to have to be parked.

[45:44] So where are the people that are working on site going to going to be? where's

[45:47] the layown going to happen? Um all these sort of maintenance things that have to

[45:52] happen along the way and after they're completed the project. Um and then um we

[45:57] do have in the agreement to our neighbor again. U we call that a specific

[46:01] requirement that we um we have to sit down and make sure that we have an

[46:06] adequate solution to the solid waste disposal that currently occurs in the

[46:10] parking lot u for the church. Um so that's actually baked into the agreement

[46:14] that we reached uh reached in a a consensus on how best to make that

[46:17] happen. Um that satisfies the church and the burrow in the development.

[46:24] So the financial analysis so um we we understood um that uh a project like

[46:32] this may require a payment of little taxes. Uh but you don't really decide

[46:40] that or come to that conclusion until you go through a robust process of

[46:45] analyzing the developers cost. So that process begins by garden homes providing

[46:50] us the burrow with all of their financial proforms, financial analysis,

[46:57] construction cost, anticipated rents, um their uh how they're going to finance

[47:03] the project, what their operating expenses are going to be when they

[47:06] finally open the project, a fully baked um uh financial analysis that we then

[47:13] turn over to our financial consultant, Beacon Planning, who has done this

[47:16] throughout the state of New Jersey and it is for us here to vet their numbers

[47:21] and that begins a negotiation about what will be the appropriate pilot for this

[47:26] project. And that process happened um and as a result of that process our

[47:31] consultants um and garden homes and their lawyers and myself came to an

[47:37] agreement about what we think would be the appropriate payment in little taxes

[47:41] for this project. The magic of the payment of those taxes. How do you kind

[47:46] of get to that number? It's it's math, but it's also somewhat art. The goal is

[47:51] to reach a number that we believe is sufficient to allow them to succeed at

[47:57] their project, but not so much that they would get a windfall from their project.

[48:01] And we did have a lot of history already because we know um from what happened in

[48:06] the river road at least at some level lots of their numbers because the river

[48:10] road project has a pilot and it's already been opened and operating and

[48:15] we've received audits on that project. So we we've sort of begun to understand

[48:20] um the best you know what the economics are and able to invent the Garn's

[48:24] numbers and and to be fair to Garn um unlike many other developers they came

[48:31] in what we thought were very fair numbers. didn't try to show up with a

[48:35] bunch of incredibly low rents that that demonstrate they're going to lose money

[48:40] or extraordinarily high operating costs that show they're going to lose your out

[48:45] of whack construction costs. Um they they showed off with a what we thought

[48:49] was a fair representation. We had some negotiations, some conversations. We

[48:54] didn't agree with everything they said, but I think they sort of per usual with

[49:00] working with them. um they didn't try to, you know, start somewhere in left

[49:05] field and, you know, have to have us come to a close. We got we got to a a

[49:10] close relatively fast. Um so the the a so some of the some of the statistics

[49:16] that go into this analysis. So the uh there's going to be again 114 market

[49:20] units, 20 affordable. The average rental side is about 1,300

[49:24] square feet. Obviously less for the studios, more for two and three

[49:28] bedrooms. and their projected rent rent rent is about $5,500,000

[49:33] and that takes into consideration the rents on the on the various units the

[49:38] affordable housing rents based on on the UAC numbers um so they're protected uh

[49:48] uh and then they have their retail rents so they do have these retail spaces ours

[49:52] is free to us but the other spaces we projected that they would have about

[49:56] $420,000 of uh retail on the retail spaces and that assumed an NOI of 5% um

[50:05] then we came to an NOI which I'll walk you through and we assume about a 5%

[50:08] vacancy um and we assume some prevailing 2026 ret real estate taxes we do do an

[50:15] analysis can you just say what NOA oh I'm sorry net the net operating income

[50:20] so in our what I'll get to you next is net operating income in our analysis

[50:24] it's net operating income after taxes or pilot so NOI is uh total revenues less

[50:30] expenses and in our in our NOI would also subtract the the annual service

[50:36] charge andor the rent um as appropriate in the analysis and again the affordable

[50:41] housing the rents we use the so the the rents or the affordable units is

[50:46] dictated by law state law um based upon what the affordability of the whatever

[50:52] your income limitations are on the number of

[50:57] So, uh, the project is slated to be 74 almost $75 million. So, this is going to

[51:03] be a $75 million investment in Highland Park. I don't think we've seen a $75

[51:09] million investment by a single project in quite some time, maybe a decade. Um,

[51:15] the estimated cost for that project is about $239 per square foot. Um, and the

[51:21] estimated cost per residential unit is $557,500.

[51:25] Uh that's the that's the cost to construct. Um if we were doing

[51:29] conventional taxes um they would have and we did the again the total gross

[51:34] income is the 5675. You back out the operating expenses um and the taxes they

[51:40] end up with about a 3,55,000 net operating income after taxes. Um and

[51:46] then but if you did the 10% annual service charges which is what we're

[51:50] recommending for the borrow for the initial uh period it's it goes up over

[51:54] time um they end up with a higher uh net operating. So the pilot clearly has an

[52:00] economic benefit to their project right they're going to enjoy from going from

[52:05] three million to almost four million. So it's there's roughly a million dollar

[52:09] economic benefit to them uh to have to pay the annual service charge versus the

[52:15] taxes. So clearly a value to them. Why uh why does that make sense to us? And

[52:21] it makes sense to us because when we do the analysis it is clear that without

[52:27] the pilot they would effectively build a project that would be worth more less

[52:34] when completed than it costs to build it. So, and we run various cap rates to

[52:39] figure out what that analysis will be. But, as you can imagine, if I'm going to

[52:44] build a project for $74 million, and when I'm done building my project, it's

[52:49] worth $60 million, nobody makes that investment in the project. So our goal

[52:55] working with our financial advisor was to determine what's the right level of

[52:59] pilot um that we would give them where the value once built stabilized is more

[53:08] than the cost to build. Again I wouldn't spend none of us would spend $7 million

[53:13] $7 million to buy something that's then worth 50 million once we borrow. Um so

[53:18] same analysis we go through in this process. Um so um

[53:25] at the end of the day well we we stress test the uh con conventional taxes we

[53:30] stress test the pilot um and we concluded that now we our financial

[53:34] adviser um that um using a six and a half terminal cap at a 10-year we

[53:41] calculated the 10-year unleveraged irr we get to a 4.25%.

[53:46] So what that is is if you assume uh a fully uh stabilized asset with the

[53:52] revenues we projected over 10 years and then they sold it in the 11th year um at

[53:58] a 6 and a.5% cap they would enjoy a 4.25 5% internal rate of return um at 15

[54:06] years it will be 5.33% the expected range um for an investment

[54:11] of this type is somewhere between five and a half to 7%. Um, so even at the

[54:16] 15-year IRRa, they don't quite get to the number. That demonstrates um the

[54:22] need for the pilot because this is this is using the the pilot numbers. Um,

[54:28] I think we benefit in part because Garden Homes is a legacy builder and

[54:34] holder. This is a family business. They buy their assets, they hold their

[54:38] assets, they're patient. Um they are not a buy and flip company which is also

[54:43] part of the reason we wanted to hire them is their uh their business model um

[54:49] and will correct me on anything I might have said here is to own assets not to

[54:54] build assets and flip assets which is different than some other

[55:00] uh so the key takeaways on the financial analysis again these are the residential

[55:04] units you find unrestricted the the estimate on the value the cost uh the

[55:09] various returns at the end of the day that um I'll allow us to recommend. So

[55:15] that what we basically concluded that the 10% uh annual service charge um this

[55:23] would be the equivalent of a with a 5% cap rate um which is slightly below

[55:28] market again um I know garden homes uh initially said to us they would like to

[55:34] do less than 10% to be honest with you um because they probably did the same

[55:39] math we did um that would have required us to do bonds and a whole another

[55:43] process so we said look we're just not going to do We're not going to go down

[55:45] that path. And the 10% that I'm talking to you about, this also ratchets up over

[55:50] time. So that's a that's an initial number. And over time, over the 30

[55:53] years, that percent goes up as does their stage increases that tie into a so

[55:59] by the end of the last several years, the pilot begins looking like 80% of the

[56:04] otherwise full taxes in now in those years. So this is a pilot that ramps up

[56:09] with the intention that when they call off the pilot, now they're paying full

[56:12] taxes. And by the time you get to the last several years of the pilot um again

[56:16] starts to also begin to look a lot like taxes% mean that's what they start

[56:21] paying in taxes. >> They pay 10% of the annual gross

[56:24] revenue. So maybe I wasn't clear about that. So you take the the simplicity of

[56:28] the analysis is they add up every dollar they receive and then they pay us 10% of

[56:34] that number and then they audit it every year and if there and then there's a

[56:37] true up if it's not right from year because they obviously pay taxes and has

[56:41] to true up so >> for 30 years

[56:44] » but eventually it goes up to 11 12 and I think by the last years it's 15.

[56:48] » Are you going to questions or are you taking questions?

[56:51] » I'm almost done. This is it and then I'll jump to questions. Um so um what's

[56:56] next? So I'll give you the what's next and we'll come we'll continue with that

[56:59] question. So um with the redevelopment agreement we are anticipating

[57:04] considering that at our next governing body meeting and we're going to post it

[57:08] online um so that people have time to read it. The financial agreement which

[57:12] is a pilot analysis we'll we'll follow that. Um it's going to be at the

[57:17] self-split meeting um is the current expectations. So that and that's a two

[57:21] meeting endeavor. was an introduction, notice, public hearing, adoption. So,

[57:27] it's two plus meetings. Uh the purchase sale agreement also going to be two

[57:31] meetings. You generally understand the terms of that. Um it's 1.5 million bucks

[57:35] with the reverter clause and affordable housing restrictions. Um then they have

[57:41] uh to get all their government approval. So, they got to get their sitement

[57:45] approval, their TWWA. Um I think maybe there's a county approval. And then we

[57:50] have the property closing. Um it says closing for now they have it's just hard

[57:54] closing again their lender commitment and financing closed construction

[57:58] commences and they expect it to be about a two-year not construction. Um so you

[58:03] know you add it all up they they're opening in called 30 months

[58:09] and that's my question and you want me to go back to slide

[58:13] » affordable housing. >> Yeah.

[58:17] » You don't have to go just for me whatever your model is for taking

[58:20] questions. I think if we're taking questions, we'd ask microphone so

[58:25] everybody else can hear you.

[58:32] » Seth Coell, one of the pastors at the Reformed Church of Highland Park and um

[58:38] yeah, thanks for this presentation. Um I have a bunch of questions and I'm not

[58:43] sure which ones are for you and which ones are are for others, but I'll start

[58:45] with the affordable housing slide. Um, I'm not thrilled with the breakdown of

[58:49] very low, low, and moderate because I understand those things. Um, but one

[58:54] thing that would be really nice is if you keep this, if the moderate,

[58:59] especially large ones, you'd be willing to take folks on vouchers. Um, the

[59:04] biggest problem we have in this state isn't that there's not enough housing,

[59:07] it's that we don't have enough landlords willing to take people who have vouchers

[59:11] that are actually falling do dollars wise within moderate gear. um you

[59:16] wouldn't lose any money, but you're willing to take a family that um that

[59:21] qualifies for a voucher and has every landlord looking negatively on them

[59:26] because they qualify for a voucher. So, that that is a special thing that is

[59:30] important to us and that I think would help diversify who's able to live in our

[59:34] town and who can live in your building and it won't hurt you financially and it

[59:38] would gain some real bones to to kind of how we feel about um a project like

[59:44] this. I can answer that.

[59:46] » Yeah. And so the affordable housing is >> I think the microphone question.

[59:54] » Yeah. The the affordable >> No, no, no. I want viewers at home to

[59:57] hear it as well. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the uh the

[1:00:00] affordable components handled by a third party. We currently take vouchers

[1:00:06] through it's you know whoever qualifies in working with the third party

[1:00:11] administrator. they handle like who's qualified. We don't get in the business

[1:00:16] of like who's disqualified. So I think currently as far as I understand our

[1:00:20] portfolio if someone working with a third party has a voucher who's

[1:00:25] qualified, you know, we're not opposed to that. So it's it's kind of out of our

[1:00:30] hands. It's more they they do the certification qualifications and uh and

[1:00:36] then it comes to us and we just basically show show the units. um with

[1:00:42] the assumption that certification is done by a third party. So

[1:00:46] » yeah, >> take a hard look at that.

[1:00:49] » I would say that's not a satisfactory answer from me. I appreciate that's what

[1:00:54] it is. I'd like to know more about the third party group that's dealing with it

[1:00:57] and ask them specifically about their willingness to take people on batteries

[1:01:01] and it could be a real win for you to kind of do that in a public way. that

[1:01:05] could help us with other large important developers in the state to see somebody

[1:01:10] stand up um in this way and say yes when I have available units that are at these

[1:01:15] rates I'll take vouchers. So I I just think that's like an easy win um for

[1:01:20] Highland Park and for for this project that look really good and hopefully your

[1:01:24] your third party person on that. Second thing I ask you about um will this

[1:01:28] project be subject to the same limits on how much rent can be raised every year?

[1:01:34] Um like is it 3.65 or something like that?

[1:01:38] » You mean for the um for the >> rents? For rents not not affordable just

[1:01:42] general overall rents 134 is the rent control

[1:01:47] under New Jersey law projects are not sub.

[1:01:50] » No no every every rent in this town is subject to a limit that you can raise

[1:01:55] rent every month. I've owned projects places in this town and every every

[1:01:59] landlord has this. So >> that that under New Jersey law, new uh

[1:02:04] rental projects are exempt from rent, local rent.

[1:02:07] » Once it's up and running and you've charged 3,000 a month for rent or 3,400,

[1:02:12] which I'm calculating for some of these units, can you in one year jump at 7% if

[1:02:19] you want or is the limit like everybody else that it's a 3% kind of increase per

[1:02:23] year? >> It's okay. Something somebody should be

[1:02:27] really looking at um uh plan for code blue. Currently,

[1:02:34] there's a code blue is provided in and through a mun the town doing that um in

[1:02:40] one of its buildings that's going to be torn down. So, that's something we've

[1:02:43] discussed a bit and I just want to say it's really important by this winter,

[1:02:47] especially if this is going to start happening, that we know what to do with

[1:02:50] homeless people, of which we have at least seven right now, who are sleeping

[1:02:54] on site. um heaters um in the covered spot along the street. Will we have

[1:02:59] heaters in the in the outdoor space? It's just something to think about like

[1:03:04] you would have for a outdoor dining. There will be people in the winter for

[1:03:07] whom that's really central. Um clarity um clarity about the the walkway between

[1:03:16] the church and the new building um is important to us and clarity about fire

[1:03:22] um trucks being able to get to the building, ambulances, etc. Um, most of

[1:03:27] those things I feel like you've already very carefully looked at with us, but I

[1:03:31] just want to reiterate before things go that like especially with a two-year

[1:03:35] construction phase here. Um, I want to make sure we have safety of our

[1:03:40] buildings um, and access to worship for people with disabilities during the two

[1:03:45] years. And so if that means that we need some sort of a shuttle bus parking at at

[1:03:51] the at Donaldson Park or whatever it is during those two years and we we are

[1:03:56] willing to be flexible and I absolutely believe in the need for redevelopment in

[1:04:01] our downtown. Um and I'll look past lots of things but some things I I won't

[1:04:06] public bathrooms. You didn't show that but I didn't look enough. I mean the

[1:04:10] public bathrooms in Highland Park right now are the Reformed Church of Highland

[1:04:13] Park, right? And we proudly share our bathrooms and

[1:04:16] try our best to keep them clean for everyone from the municipal workers who,

[1:04:22] you know, had to go during COVID and needed to be be there to folks who are

[1:04:26] homeless day in and day out. And u just want to make sure that as our parking

[1:04:30] area or your parking area that we've used for years has been, you know, will

[1:04:34] be changed that there's enough public bathroom space for those who don't have

[1:04:39] easy access to a place to go um when they need to go. So that's important.

[1:04:44] And finally, who pays for the upkeep of the 40 units um that the public occupies

[1:04:50] um for the long term. So really happy about to know that there's this

[1:04:54] long-term agreement in place, but um you know, stuff crumbles and who's, you

[1:05:01] know, it's an easement for us, but where does the cost come from? Okay, so those

[1:05:06] are my list of questions. Thank you. >> Thank you.

[1:05:11] » Okay. Before we just move on, just a couple sorry it

[1:05:18] is a tag team different folks. I just wanted to the restroom question. I you

[1:05:23] raised a lot of good points but I have an answer on the restroom ones off the

[1:05:26] top. Um when we are having our programs um the there will be restrooms in both

[1:05:33] the the uh burrow space in the building but also in our plaza there's uh

[1:05:39] restrooms where between one and two we're doing the pricing for two and

[1:05:43] hopefully we can afford two. Uh but we believe you know when we're doing our

[1:05:48] programs we should be able to not rely on your facilities anymore or at least

[1:05:53] much much less. So, I really appreciate the point and um I just wanted to

[1:05:59] clarify when you talk about the walkway, you're are you talking about the walkway

[1:06:03] in between through from Magnolia to Rariton or the one along towards

[1:06:08] » along the church and then we don't have enough detail here to show that, but

[1:06:12] we'll certainly talk. Okay, thanks. Sorry.

[1:06:18] » I do. I I know I that's our code blue is our um our shelter during uh cold months

[1:06:25] that we are discussing that but it's an

[1:06:30] important point. Um, my name is Jessica Hunston and I

[1:06:36] wanted to ask, you spoke a lot about the financial benefits of a payment lumen of

[1:06:41] taxes for the developer, but I I think it's really important to think about

[1:06:46] what it means for our community as well. Um, so you mentioned that um the

[1:06:52] developer would be um paying 1 million I think you said less taxes annually. Um

[1:06:59] the other and and I'm just going to say a few things and then if it's incorrect

[1:07:02] you can correct it or you can say yes you're correct. Um I think the other the

[1:07:06] part of that is that and I'm sure most people here or not everybody here knows

[1:07:11] that when we have payment in li of taxes those taxes go from usual agreements go

[1:07:18] 95% to the city and 5% to the county and none of that money unless there's an

[1:07:26] agreement goes to the public schools. And so one of the things that is really

[1:07:31] important and that you have done, the bureau has done with um the Frederick is

[1:07:36] to have an annual agreement with the school district to put some of that

[1:07:41] money towards the school. So which has been really and that was in response to

[1:07:45] the community really advocating for that. So I'm wanting to know if that has

[1:07:50] also been discussed because that's a really important part of this. Um, and I

[1:07:56] think there are many public school advocates and supporters here in this

[1:08:00] room and within our community that would want to know that that is something that

[1:08:04] the burrow is committed to doing. >> It has been a part of our continual

[1:08:09] discussion. >> Yes. So there's no commitment to it

[1:08:13] » at this point. It's under discussion and it's on the table, but we haven't had

[1:08:17] that, you know, we're not revealing that at this point. We don't have the

[1:08:21] agreement uh finalized at this point. Okay. But I think the part that might be

[1:08:27] difficult at least for me and maybe others to hear is when we talk about

[1:08:30] that payment and remove tax as having benefit to the developer, but we don't

[1:08:34] talk about it as a complete picture of what it means for our community.

[1:08:38] » I'll let you speak to that. Oh, you're not done. I'm sorry.

[1:08:41] » No. And I have one other question about um that 1.5 million that you said the

[1:08:49] developer was paying the bureau. Can you just um let me know what they're you're

[1:08:54] they're paying us for? Is it which property is it?

[1:08:57] » I I don't know if I have an exhibit that shows the Oh, I do actually. Let me go

[1:09:02] back. Um do you have lot lines? So the burrow owns and the lot lines in the

[1:09:09] aerial don't match perfectly just to so this lot here and I don't know them by

[1:09:14] heart is owned by the burrow and then as well as I believe

[1:09:20] This one here, right, Chris or somebody? Yes. Which is where uh Main Street's

[1:09:26] office 212 Ritton, that's a burrow owned property. Um as well as the parking lot

[1:09:33] basically that goes all the way through. Those are the the properties owned by

[1:09:37] the burrow. >> So how many lots?

[1:09:39] » It's two. >> Okay. Those two. Okay. The the reason I

[1:09:43] ask this question is because the the the developer has paid much more for like uh

[1:09:50] land space lot space wise has paid much more for the acquisitions they have

[1:09:56] prior to that. In 2023 they paid 1.25 million for lot 6.01. In 2022 they point

[1:10:05] they paid 610,000 for lot one. In 2022, they paid 950,000 for lot 34. In um 2022

[1:10:15] also, they paid 850,000 for lot 9. And they paid 850,000 also for lot 8. Um one

[1:10:22] more or two more. One more they paid the first purchase they made 232. They paid

[1:10:28] 850,000. So as you can see 1.5 is not a lot for

[1:10:34] that. So, I just wanted to maybe the bureau can say why they took such a low

[1:10:39] amount for that two that large those large spaces. Um, and I I know I'm

[1:10:46] asking some maybe challenging questions. I don't but I really am in support of

[1:10:51] the redevelopment. I think there's been a lot of work that is done. It's time

[1:10:56] for our community to have redevelopment and in a way that makes sense to our

[1:11:01] community. But I do think these questions that I raised are really

[1:11:04] important ones um for for the reasons that I raised them.

[1:11:09] » I'll let Joe pick up on some of these. >> Okay. U so let me start with the value

[1:11:15] to the burrow. So uh right now the taxes um on the properties that are paying

[1:11:22] taxes or not is about $120,000 I think annually

[1:11:27] » 136 turn the math. So 136 um the annual

[1:11:32] service charge is going to be roughly 570,000. So um there's a so just sort of

[1:11:38] out of the box the annual service charge that we're going to uh enjoy is you know

[1:11:43] 400,000 plus more so it's a substantially more amount of money um

[1:11:47] than we're currently enjoying from the from all those properties you described.

[1:11:51] Um so that's that's the first benefit. The second one is um you know I think

[1:11:57] what Terry and the mayor said was you know as the race to the board of ed um

[1:12:01] we haven't even had a vote on this yet and publicist still ask questions about

[1:12:06] that. So it felt premature um to engage in any conversation um until we have

[1:12:12] deal and then what we're talking about um which is kind of the way we did it

[1:12:17] last time for river uh the purchase price. So um the we went through a

[1:12:22] competitive process and this and many people felt that it was worth a lot

[1:12:26] less. What history shows you um when you do redevelopment is um the property

[1:12:32] owners in the area that they had to purchase the property for um had a lot

[1:12:36] of leverage, right? So um if you have a property, you sort of have this key

[1:12:41] piece of property um and you you were aware and everyone was that they're

[1:12:46] going to sell it um that they're going to be selling it. the developer needs it

[1:12:49] to need this piece of property right here, right? To make your development

[1:12:52] work. Um, I would posit that some of those prices are above market at the end

[1:12:57] of the day that they pay more than market to make a project to assemble all

[1:13:00] the property and make it work. So, and then sort of the last point of it is um

[1:13:05] from the burrow's perspective um I think the the land and if the it's all part of

[1:13:12] the math, right? It's all goes into the math. What's the total project cost?

[1:13:16] What's the pilot they need? you you pay you get more money from the land you

[1:13:20] need a better pilot. Um so it all sort of pulls and tugs at uh at one another

[1:13:27] $10 million for a land. Um we wouldn't have been able to give them a pilot low

[1:13:30] enough to make it work. Um so so it's sort of all part of this um math

[1:13:35] analysis that gets us to a number but it was through a not an auction albe it but

[1:13:42] through a process um was a piece of was the number that was the the highest that

[1:13:46] anyone offered to pay again some offering to pay substantially less. So

[1:13:50] it was it's part of the process we went through. It's part of the math to make

[1:13:53] sure the transaction works. Um and I do think at the end of the day uh may

[1:13:58] disagree I don't know but I do think that you know often whether it's because

[1:14:02] our other plan other choice we could they couldn't negotiate a transaction

[1:14:05] with property owners we'd have to use as we've done sparingly but never want to

[1:14:10] but we are doing it across the street is use combination which is never a great

[1:14:15] solution right so I think those property owners probably um if they were in the

[1:14:20] market and it wasn't right buying it for a bigger project would not have seen

[1:14:23] those values So we're comfortable that that number based upon the process we

[1:14:28] went through based upon the analysis of all the numbers together um is a is a

[1:14:33] fair number for this and again I think I think it's also important to always

[1:14:38] bring back from the public sector side we're trying to have a game changer

[1:14:44] happen here for island park this is not just a development deal this is an

[1:14:48] effort to um turn the t this is a red area for a reason it's a redevelopment

[1:14:55] area because it's fits the criteria of an area need of redevelopment. Not every

[1:14:59] piece of property fits that criteria. So this is as much of a investment in the

[1:15:05] community. If we took a somewhat less number for our land for example, make

[1:15:10] the math work. It's because we're investing into a project that's gonna

[1:15:14] put folks living in downtown, gonna put a restaurant, retailing jumpstart u what

[1:15:20] we hope to be a much larger development improvement of the entire downtown. And

[1:15:27] sort of the last point I would make is um the pioneer and almost every

[1:15:32] redevelopment project, which is who they are in this project, the first one in

[1:15:36] usually gets most of it gets more benefits than the second one, the third

[1:15:39] one. Uh we'll see how that plays out in how it work. Um but this kind of project

[1:15:44] is also somewhat untested. You know, this this side

[1:15:48] sounds like I was going to add to >> utilize the microphone.

[1:15:53] » I was I was gonna add to to Jessica's question too. We looked at it also as a

[1:15:58] huge benefit in the space that the public is going to have for a very long

[1:16:03] time. So I looked at that as part of the cost as well. uh as well as the shared

[1:16:08] parking, public parking, that's property that I can't we're basically taking over

[1:16:14] the maintenance. There's a cost to that and providing what the public has today,

[1:16:18] but in a way that'll be better than what is there today. So, I look at that as

[1:16:23] cost that's part of the purchase price as well.

[1:16:31] Peter. >> So, um, the question is, um, I don't

[1:16:37] really understand what you were saying about the pilot. It was confusing.

[1:16:44] I can't believe what I thought. I heard that they're paying initially 10% of

[1:16:51] their gross um, revenues going up to 80% of their gross revenues, going up to 80%

[1:16:58] of otherwise applicable taxes. So there's a there's there's two there's

[1:17:04] three numbers that we look at every year to figure out what will be the annual

[1:17:08] service charge. The first number is they're campaigning less than they were

[1:17:12] paying the year before. That's not going to be a problem because they were paying

[1:17:16] $120,000. The second number we look at is a

[1:17:20] percentage of their annual gross revenues. In this case, it starts at 10%

[1:17:24] and then as you'll see in the financial agreement over a period of time, it

[1:17:28] rises to I think 12 and a half remember >> 15%.

[1:17:32] » Oh, I'm sorry. It rises to 15%. So the 10 becomes 15 over 30 years in

[1:17:37] increments >> of gross revenue.

[1:17:39] » Yeah, gross revenues. So that's the second set of numbers. First the last

[1:17:43] four quarters. Second number is this percentage of annual gross revenues

[1:17:46] that's growing. So while revenues are growing, right? the more revenues rents

[1:17:50] will go up, the base number goes up and also the percentage goes up. So by the

[1:17:56] end we will have enjoyed all the rent increases that happened and then we'll

[1:18:00] also have a higher percentage of those numbers. That's

[1:18:03] » okay. Gross up to 15% >> at the end of uh so along the way goes

[1:18:08] to 10 then I think it's 11 >> 11 12 and a half

[1:18:11] » and you'll how many years is it? >> I think the first 15 years or 10

[1:18:15] » first 10 or 10. >> Yeah. Can you answer that?

[1:18:20] » Forget >> the first 10 years I believe it was 10%

[1:18:26] and then it goes to 11% for 5 years and then 12 and a half% for five years and

[1:18:32] then uh 15% for the last 10. But during that time also it's the greater of your

[1:18:38] your percentage of the annual gross revenues or a percentage of what your

[1:18:44] actual taxes would be. So, so that's the f first minimum. Second is this

[1:18:49] percentage. >> So the total amount of time for the

[1:18:52] pilot is 30 years. >> 30 year. Yeah. So our success is like is

[1:18:56] the burough success. So >> the more successful we are, the more

[1:19:00] successful the town will be in collecting revenue

[1:19:03] » and the projected um gross revenue for the first year.

[1:19:09] » Uh they're stabilized. Hopefully we're gross revenues at like five, 52, 53. I

[1:19:17] think you had 55 up here. 56. >> Yeah. And and one thing to note too,

[1:19:22] when we submitted our RFP, interest rates were much lower. Uh I think today

[1:19:29] we're at the 10 years at 5.85. Um these numbers don't show the debt

[1:19:36] service. So what we're really like there's not a lot of room here. Um, you

[1:19:42] know, even if you were borrowing a portion of of the capital that would be

[1:19:48] put into the project, uh, at we're at the floor of like 6%, you know, that's

[1:19:54] on $50 million borrow, you know, if you're borrowing $50 million, that's $3

[1:20:00] million in just debt service on interest only. So, that's a that's also a game

[1:20:05] changer. There's not, you know, we're taking a long-term view. as as Joe said,

[1:20:10] we're here for hopefully for generations and uh and I'm not looking at just the

[1:20:16] first 10 years, but it's going to take time to, you know, there's not and I to

[1:20:22] actually um you know be long-term successful financially. So,

[1:20:27] » so what Brett's saying to you is um this I know my number doesn't include test

[1:20:32] service, right? So he just did the numbers for you. The numbers that shows

[1:20:36] that I think we agree with had him with negative cash flow for 15 and get better

[1:20:44] over time. His rents go up of course, but he had negative cash flow meaning

[1:20:47] his operating expenses and service and the annual service charge um will be

[1:20:54] greater than his income for many years. Um and again that's Charlie because

[1:21:00] they're willing to do that because they they buy and hold and this will be for

[1:21:04] breast children's children's children someday.

[1:21:09] Um

[1:21:14] sorry how you doing? Wonderful to be here talking about this.

[1:21:19] It's been such a long time in coming. You said it was about 25 20 years is

[1:21:23] about 25 but who's counting. Um so um the um I really support the development

[1:21:32] um and I think it's wonderful and congratulations to everyone including

[1:21:36] our developer partner for getting us to this point where we can I support the

[1:21:40] project. So for me this is not a question about whether or not I support

[1:21:43] the project but it's how do we make the most out of this gamechanging you know

[1:21:48] what's opportunity to shape the town. Um, some of that comes from tax revenue.

[1:21:53] Some of that comes from having vitality on downtown. That's just the nature of

[1:21:57] development. But the other major thing is the community benefits. So, um, we're

[1:22:02] getting a pilot. We're selling a piece of property as a consideration. And the

[1:22:07] main community benefit that I think we're getting is the 3000 foot indoor

[1:22:13] space and the 3000 foot adjoining pause. And so, um, I'm wondering

[1:22:20] what, um, formal assessment of need was done, like what unmet need are we

[1:22:25] meeting, um, to make the decision that that's where we're going to put the big

[1:22:30] benefit. Um, seems to me that we have already a number of similar smallalish

[1:22:36] scale, maybe undersized public spaces. We have an underutilized environmental

[1:22:42] center. Uh we've got the senior center which is about twice as big, maybe four

[1:22:47] times as big if you just count the indoor space. Um we've got the teen

[1:22:52] center. Um and then we have the Burough Square development where the proper part

[1:22:56] of it is about 11,000 square feet. Um and then to accommodate the farmers

[1:23:00] market, we have to wrap around the corner and compete with the parking lot.

[1:23:05] Um and there's been concerns raised that that's a step down from what we have and

[1:23:09] that it's undersized. Um, so my question is does like is the right thing to do

[1:23:16] with this once in a lifetime chance to make another sort of

[1:23:22] disjointed plaza. I guess you can see where my sympathy sl trying to hide it

[1:23:26] but not doing a good job. Um, you know, sort of freestanding as opposed to

[1:23:31] concentrating our investment to make something that is really big will stand

[1:23:35] the test of time. um to make the Burough Square project bigger um where we could

[1:23:41] accommodate everyone for big ceremonies, for tree lighting, for big festivals um

[1:23:46] as opposed to having to make real compromises there. And if you go back to

[1:23:49] the slide that showed the Burough Square development,

[1:23:54] » we're getting into my area. >> Um this one,

[1:23:59] » the one with the with the this one. >> Yes. It's just so patent. Yeah. So

[1:24:04] here's the sort of proper part of Burough Square. It's quite small. And

[1:24:07] then here's like the roundabout, right? So this is really still street and then

[1:24:10] this is a parking lot, right? So here's here's where the the thing happens and

[1:24:14] here's overflow. It's just so obvious to me that like there's these two

[1:24:18] residential properties and we're talking about spending a million dollars, you

[1:24:22] know, to buy properties. Like you can buy a house like that for a million

[1:24:25] dollars. Um, and they they find they create a new way to connect to the main

[1:24:30] property and they completely open up and transform the space and they they

[1:24:35] provide so much more opportunity to make something meaningful out of all of this

[1:24:38] as opposed to a relatively small, unproven, untested kind of standalone

[1:24:44] thing. I'll also note that having a lot of disjointed public spaces can be

[1:24:48] expensive. Each one has to be separately managed, maintained, programmed. Um if

[1:24:52] we ever want to create like sustainability resiliency hubs for code

[1:24:56] blue or something like that. So we want infrastructure

[1:24:59] um like we want for for the senior center we want to put solar and battery

[1:25:02] backup storage and water storage and other things that can make that in the

[1:25:07] event of a disaster a community hub. We would need to invest in that. You can't

[1:25:13] you can't build all that infrastructure redundantly and you can't make micro

[1:25:16] grids on properties that are disjointed. So concentrating your efforts in one

[1:25:21] area is just a smarter way to do it than having all these little thing you know

[1:25:25] things around scatter but we already have a number of things that are already

[1:25:29] like this. Um so I guess my question is how much opportunity is there to still

[1:25:33] consider something like that and has there been a formal kind of unmet need

[1:25:37] assessment that went into that particular decision and and just finally

[1:25:41] I'll just note that the the amount that is being spent on that as uh Mr. Bowman

[1:25:48] said is quite significant. Uh so it's not just the cost to build it, but it's

[1:25:53] the deferred value of what the developer could be making from that. Um so it's a

[1:25:58] significant community benefit and a significant concession. And although

[1:26:02] there's things that were listed like um streetscaping, affordable units, um a

[1:26:08] good faith effort on hiring, most of those things are compliance things. They

[1:26:12] have to be done. They also benefit the developer. When you talk about the

[1:26:15] things where a dollar figure can be attached to it, that can be part of a

[1:26:19] negotiation. As far as I can tell, unless I miss something, the the little

[1:26:23] plaza is the real benefit.

[1:26:28] » Um, take exception at Little Plaza and Little Indoor Space. But um

[1:26:34] to back it up a long ways when we did the redevelopment plan that envisioned

[1:26:40] the track project and even I believe even in kind of earlier visions from

[1:26:45] 2005. Um there was always a desire to have and and frankly it came out in

[1:26:52] droves of the public comment when we were doing the the redevelopment plan

[1:26:56] that we whatever developments we do need to have public space incorporated

[1:27:02] and that was an important component. So the public did drive maybe not the how

[1:27:07] it all got laid out but the the dedication of this space and because

[1:27:12] this is a large street front that said we've since you know established south

[1:27:17] third as the place for our outdoor community plaza um and we see them as

[1:27:23] working as complimentary with each other. I don't disagree with you know

[1:27:28] that would a nicer larger plaza one day be nice over here absolutely something

[1:27:34] as a secondary phase but budget and other constraints made this very

[1:27:41] difficult >> wasn't for sale

[1:27:43] » and they weren't for sale I mean we were lucky to some extent that these

[1:27:47] properties adjacent to our municipal lots made themselves available um at a

[1:27:52] time where it kind of worked for our project. So, but I was just getting back

[1:27:56] to kind of where the impetus came was from the planning process from prior to

[1:28:01] Garden Homes being on the scene. Um, I lost track of where Randy went in the

[1:28:05] crowd. There he is there. Sorry, I went into So, um, you know, doesn't mean down

[1:28:10] the line, you know, I I don't want to say you we couldn't reprogramming now,

[1:28:14] but the deal that we've gotten to and that we're all, you know, meeting

[1:28:19] professional staff and the governing body has, you know, we've been talking

[1:28:24] about this space since the get and it would be a a major turn right now to

[1:28:28] change it. I is that a fair thing to say? Um, and I think as to no, we did

[1:28:34] not do a formal, you know, analysis, but I can tell you my informal analysis is

[1:28:39] we're teaming over at the community center where with programming needs. Our

[1:28:45] our boards and commissions want events and we're having trouble finding places.

[1:28:50] Um, and so in my mind, at a minimum, this is going to be additional community

[1:28:56] programming space, but we want to keep it active. Um ultimately we we in and it

[1:29:01] wasn't shown in this design if we were hoping Main Street would want to move

[1:29:06] into this space and use it to also do incubator and other kinds of spaces. TBD

[1:29:11] we haven't had in-depth conversations with them. They know that the that's

[1:29:15] where we're envisioning long-term office being available in there. So we see it

[1:29:20] as kind of a but we don't want it to be a dead space, but we also feel it's an

[1:29:24] amenity to the building and it's amenity to downtown to have a covered space as

[1:29:28] well. Um, and it also could add an element to our programming. So, I'm I'm

[1:29:33] jumping around, but I I guess yes, I think it would be a major left turn at

[1:29:36] this point to reprogram. That doesn't mean that in 30 years or 50 years our

[1:29:40] lease is out and if there's a better use or we've decided on something, I'm sure

[1:29:44] we can negotiate a change with Garden Homes. Uh, if if it if it doesn't work

[1:29:49] out, but I'm confident we can make it work and we're going to have um get a

[1:29:53] lot of good use out of that space. Um, did I cover Ian? That's the gist. Okay,

[1:30:00] » Patrick, >> thank you. Um, just two things. One, I

[1:30:04] wanted to I don't know re-emphasize what Seth said. I work on the uh or serve on

[1:30:10] the affordable housing authority and it is very difficult to get uh even with uh

[1:30:15] people that have vouchers to find them places because of resistance on

[1:30:19] landlords. and if there's a possibility you could work with the burrow and our

[1:30:24] housing authority to maybe meet your needs and you know again I don't know

[1:30:28] the details but it's certainly an avenue you know we're pursuing that you know

[1:30:33] could get people >> who have vouchers into affordable

[1:30:36] housing so that's that's a possibility that we can work on and the second would

[1:30:40] be a kind of a suggestion for you all is to put the numbers in a in a more

[1:30:45] readily uh accessible you know fashion like it Like it's good to know that the

[1:30:52] existing houses that aren't part of the burrow property, what it say 135

[1:30:57] something like that. So that's about 90 in school taxes. So if you put 90 up

[1:31:02] against $400,000, you can see that there's a possibility it's not a

[1:31:06] difficult reach to meet or exceed that number. So that would be a good thing to

[1:31:10] do. And then you could put up also the fact that with 134 plus you know 150 odd

[1:31:16] units that's a lot of put traffic on the businesses and so that in and of itself

[1:31:21] has a positive impact. But I think if you made some sort of cheat sheet like

[1:31:26] that and make you know front page it would go a long way and and also break

[1:31:31] down the various numbers that people are rightly concerned with but have it you

[1:31:35] know very you know simple that a carpenter would read.

[1:31:38] » I I agree. Yeah. We can definitely do the cheat sheet fact sheet. I think

[1:31:42] that's a really good suggestion. Um, and that voucher question we are going to

[1:31:48] look into the it is typical for third parties to administer the affordable

[1:31:52] units. They do all the, you know, vetting and qualifying and we can find

[1:31:56] out if that's if they if there's any reason they can't. Uh, I don't, you

[1:32:01] know, I don't I it never even occurred to me that that would be a constraint.

[1:32:05] So, we'll certainly look into it.

[1:32:10] Um, I want to thank everybody. I very much support redevelopment. I want to

[1:32:15] thank everybody who put in a lot of work on this and I want to thank Homes for

[1:32:19] their commitment to Highland Park. Uh, I have two questions. Uh, the first is, is

[1:32:24] there any potential for acquiring more properties or are you done?

[1:32:29] You know, another spot on Magnolia there became available. Would you consider

[1:32:35] firing it? how we looked at it, but I don't think it would make sense for this

[1:32:40] particular project. >> Okay. And um my second question is you

[1:32:44] mentioned earlier that we're facing some rising borrowing rates. Um you know,

[1:32:49] there's potential for interest rates to climb more as we face inflation. How

[1:32:54] resilient are your plans to rise against interest rates?

[1:32:58] » Before you answer, do you mind coming up?

[1:33:03] Yeah, look, I I mean, we're, you know, we're committed to the

[1:33:08] project. So, I think uh we we built for for years through different um economic

[1:33:17] environments. So, yeah, just it doesn't make it any easier. Hoping that over the

[1:33:22] next 30 years, things will e flow and uh things will will come back at some

[1:33:27] point. So,

[1:33:32] partnering waits at a certain point it's like back we can't do this anymore

[1:33:38] » I I have um two questions one relates to um to the extent there are any

[1:33:44] residential uh tenants in many of the buildings uh for the project even

[1:33:48] commercial tenants there are a few um how are the residential tenants being um

[1:33:54] how are there how's that re relocation being handled uh are they being treated

[1:33:59] uh and finding you know, a comparable place uh to live. Uh that first

[1:34:03] question. So, >> um Brett, do you mind fielding that one

[1:34:07] too? >> Shouldn't we should invite you up here

[1:34:10] about your current tenants? Yeah, we're we're always sensitive to current

[1:34:15] tenants and um recently we gave notice um to the existing to the current

[1:34:22] tenants and uh I think it's through it's you know it's a month beyond what the

[1:34:28] statute statute requires knowing that you know folks will probably say hey can

[1:34:34] I stay longer and and I know with the church we're we're having those

[1:34:38] conversations to see any tenants um you know that they know of that uh can be

[1:34:46] impacted. We're we're trying to work with everyone. So while at the same time

[1:34:49] want to be reasonable to hopefully get the projects or we want to we're human

[1:34:54] beings too. >> I can answer that.

[1:34:58] » Thank you. I would just um reiterate I think it's important for um the burrow

[1:35:03] or or the developer to help tenants find a comparable location uh with comparable

[1:35:09] rents and the extent that there are moving costs and inconveniences that

[1:35:12] that somehow not be born on the backs of the renters. Uh the second question um

[1:35:19] just you know relates to um I think you have this concept plan and few slides

[1:35:24] ahead and um yeah thank that one that was fun um there is a bus I'm like the

[1:35:30] bus guy but um one of the bus guys but there was a bus stop um sort of at the

[1:35:35] corner of second and Ritton and um like >> on on the on the north side

[1:35:42] » on the north side. Yeah. Well, well, actually on the on both sides just

[1:35:45] there's there >> isn't isn't it over here on

[1:35:48] » there's one on every block. Okay. >> It's pretty busy will tell you it's

[1:35:52] probably too many bus that that being said um there is a bus stop on beginning

[1:35:55] of each block as you head there's a shelter.

[1:35:58] » Yeah. Um >> that's why it's I think um given the

[1:36:03] investment in the you have a lot of parking your building. Um there's a bus

[1:36:06] stop there. Uh I don't believe there may be a bus shelter. I don't think so. But

[1:36:10] I think what you have is an opportunity to really uh you know really make a

[1:36:15] space for people who are waiting for the bus and make that a real kind of spot

[1:36:20] for people to now either be you know shel you know shelter from the elements

[1:36:24] when they're waiting for the bus um you know be able to take part of some of the

[1:36:28] activities along there. So I think really making a that bus stop a real

[1:36:32] space and a real place uh and you know sort of making that front um that would

[1:36:36] be something I could encourage you to think about

[1:36:39] » and and you just joged my mind. Sorry, you can say um one important benefit

[1:36:44] although it's you know it seems like obvious but sometimes you we I forget

[1:36:48] too we we have a lot of driveways cutting these sidewalk through this area

[1:36:55] because of all the individual parcels that are there and this closes them with

[1:37:00] the exception of our pedestrian access way here which is going to make it more

[1:37:05] safe for pedestrians but also allow us potentially to expand avail available on

[1:37:11] street parking and one important point that uh it was in a slide but we didn't

[1:37:15] really hit on it um to provide uh with DOT approval ADA at least one but maybe

[1:37:22] we can do more ADA accessible spots on Ritin. So we should think about your bus

[1:37:28] suggestion in that context as well. Um

[1:37:33] » hi so I just have a I just have a quick question about the indoor outdoor 6000

[1:37:38] space. Um, right now I understand it's like a 50-year lease and then after that

[1:37:42] it's up for renewal. Are there any terms in the agreement about the renewal

[1:37:46] process? So like in 50 years about generations, will my bankage see a

[1:37:51] storefront there or will that still be a public space?

[1:37:53] » Still be a public space. >> Okay. Now for a dog.

[1:37:58] Just wonder are any um studies being done on the effect of new businesses and

[1:38:04] apartments on Rare Avenue because it'll be bumper to bumper or the traffic

[1:38:10] lights going to be regular how many the new businesses and apartments or the new

[1:38:15] cars. >> That sounds like a traffic question

[1:38:18] which I'm not able to answer. I hope it gets bumper to bumper and we have a lot

[1:38:23] of people walking around our town and shopping in those shops. Uh so we're we

[1:38:29] know it's going to be I mean you don't need to be a traffic engineer to be to

[1:38:32] assume there will be a little more traffic as a result of this development.

[1:38:36] They have the parking um and you know we have signalized intersections to help

[1:38:41] manage the traffic. Um but I'm assuming DOT looks at these things and we'll have

[1:38:46] an opinion but we think this works. Um

[1:38:54] » hi. Um, also just continuing on that, you just talk a little bit about

[1:38:59] explaining in detail where the parking spaces for the the tenants and what the

[1:39:07] flow is. When I when I look at that, it looks like all the parking will have to

[1:39:12] come in through all the >> I I can explain the confusion. It's

[1:39:16] because I did the I did this uh the uh >> Huh. Brett.

[1:39:22] » Uh but but well no because I don't want to put Brett on the spot for my bad my

[1:39:26] layout. I stole from his plans uh the landscape plan the first floor. So

[1:39:33] you're looking at basically and that's the lower level of parking here. Okay.

[1:39:38] » Covered parking. >> Yes.

[1:39:40] » So there's parking >> and then there's and it's under So this

[1:39:42] is structured podium parking, right Brett? I don't know what you call it.

[1:39:46] Maybe you could do a better job. But what I was trying to show in one shot,

[1:39:49] which is hard to do, um, is that there are two levels of parking, covered

[1:39:55] parking in in this area, right, Brett? >> Yes.

[1:39:58] » Uhu. And the surface is the surface here, which is more or less what we're

[1:40:04] used to as the surface parking. >> Street level parking.

[1:40:07] » As street level parking. What's interesting is because the topography

[1:40:10] here, Raritin's lower than here. So they were able to tuck in a layer of parking

[1:40:16] at grade there, but then as you the project moves back on the site, it's at

[1:40:21] a higher level and they could have parking on two levels, but it's not like

[1:40:25] a deck where you can circulate within the two levels. But Brett, please help

[1:40:29] me. >> Yeah. Understand how everybody's coming

[1:40:33] in. >> There's so here this is one way in on

[1:40:37] the lower level and then this is another way in on the upper. The upper is not

[1:40:40] depicted here. >> Okay. Um,

[1:40:42] » yeah, there's a Oh, sorry. >> I'll try.

[1:40:44] » So, there's a 10-ft grade change from Raritin to Magnolia. So, to play into

[1:40:49] the grade, um, we're able to have like one level that's on the level with

[1:40:56] Raritin and then another level when you're coming up Magnolia that will sit

[1:41:00] above it. So, it's two levels of podium, but from the back, it's you're coming in

[1:41:06] at street level. But when you get towards the front, you'll be one level

[1:41:10] above Raritin. You and those cars will be behind these like brownstone style

[1:41:17] units. So, and in here on the Raritin level, there are uh dedicated spots that

[1:41:26] are shared um parking that'll are undercover. And this is an amenity deck

[1:41:32] above the parking. So, there's no units sitting above here. It's it's an amenity

[1:41:36] deck. Um and then these are the surface spots. So

[1:41:41] the circulation is like from this side and then that side. They're not they're

[1:41:46] independent of each other. Does that make sense?

[1:41:50] » And and I can assure you they're much better exhibits uh pending for the

[1:41:54] planning board site plan review. So, uh, when that becomes available

[1:41:58] » and there's also, if you can see here, there'll be like an elevator and a

[1:42:04] there's an elevator here, >> I think. Is it here or there?

[1:42:07] » Or it might it might be further up, but there's a way basically accessibility

[1:42:11] from Magnolia to Raron. Um, you could take the stairs, too.

[1:42:17] » Yeah. So, so, um, we could probably get you a better, this was a highle, um,

[1:42:23] diagram. Um but the the the nuts and bolts are there are 258

[1:42:30] spaces probably 30 something are out here maybe in total the rest are in the

[1:42:38] structure. >> Every everyone enters or exits on

[1:42:42] » you can enter the lower level this way and you enter the upper level this way.

[1:42:46] » But those are the two entry points for all the new residents

[1:42:49] » for the cars. Yes. the the human beings can access their units as they're

[1:42:55] » everybody comes in or leaves in the morning when they go to work and when

[1:42:58] everybody comes back the end of the day kind of thing.

[1:43:00] » Fortunately, it doesn't really work out that everybody's coming in at the exact

[1:43:04] same moment. But yeah, there there will be times of the day where it will there

[1:43:09] will be peaks two ways. >> Snor, you got to get in line.

[1:43:16] » No, no, behind. >> Fine. It's fine.

[1:43:20] Okay. Um, so I just want to say I'm I'm so excited to to be here tonight to see

[1:43:26] this moving forward, to see the progress. I'm super excited for Bar

[1:43:29] Square. Um, I've been waiting for that to to happen ever since the town tables

[1:43:34] were shut down after COVID. Um, one thing I'm really excited about and

[1:43:37] really interested in is the public space. And I was wondering what's going

[1:43:41] to be the process for deciding what goes there, for programming it. What are the

[1:43:44] conversations going to be like? Because I'm, you know, thinking in my head, what

[1:43:47] could go there? Like could we have an ice skating rink? It's probably too

[1:43:50] small, but can the rec department get involved? Will there be rec classes

[1:43:54] there? If there are going to be rec classes, say like adult fitness,

[1:43:57] gymnastics classes for our kids, that kind of stuff. Can the site be the space

[1:44:01] be designed for, you know, like have the softer floors be designed to host things

[1:44:06] like that? So, I was just wondering what's the process for deciding how that

[1:44:09] space is going to be used and how it'll be designed and when would that happen?

[1:44:12] » Yeah, we've talked about that. We want to have a committee, the rec directors,

[1:44:17] you know, both Ann Marie and Kim will be very much involved as well as Main

[1:44:21] Street Highland Park because we see them both as being frankly the most likely

[1:44:25] primary users and programmers of the space. Um, and I think all of I think

[1:44:32] it's probably flex space is the word of the day. So similar to how we use the

[1:44:36] community center, you know, to the extent we could even do partitions so we

[1:44:40] can carve it up in different ways, we were we were looking at that and we were

[1:44:44] discussing that with Garden Homes. So we will be talking with them about kind of

[1:44:49] the fit out in more detail. We just the agreement basically puts a pin in. We

[1:44:54] got to get restrooms, we got to we need the plumbing, we need certain things.

[1:44:58] But certainly within reason, I'm sure they will accommodate. If it's something

[1:45:01] we think is a value ad, we may have to do additional, you know, special

[1:45:06] flooring or acoustics or something like that, we would have to. But I think the

[1:45:11] most practical thing and what I see the most need for is the kind of space

[1:45:15] you're describing. I just think it would be great if you know to the gang could

[1:45:19] do their rehearsals there. You know, things like that I think would be and

[1:45:23] and the arts commission has a a gallery exhibit that could be open for time. You

[1:45:27] know, those are the kinds of things that I've heard over the years that we just

[1:45:30] where would we put it, you know, um but we we will have a committee that kind of

[1:45:35] formulates it and we'll obviously have rules and facility use agreements and

[1:45:40] things like that, you know. Um but I'm pretty confident we can find lots of use

[1:45:45] for it. Um so I hope I answered your question.

[1:45:48] » Yeah. And just one thing I wanted to clarify, I think you did touch on this,

[1:45:51] but is the closed space going to open up entirely into the outdoor space? It's

[1:45:54] not like wide open, but there are large kind of large door openings. I don't

[1:45:58] know if there Brad, I don't know if you've gotten any further on the design

[1:46:01] of the those doors that would divide the open and the closed spaces, but the idea

[1:46:07] is it breeds. So like my vision is, you know, we've had these markets and then

[1:46:11] the weather didn't cooperate or wouldn't it be cool to do it and you could have

[1:46:15] it inside outside still, but it you you're not going like please please

[1:46:20] don't snow rain, you know, whatever. So that was kind of the vision behind the

[1:46:24] the design process that we had with Garden Homes.

[1:46:31] » I um my kind of like I just have some curiosities. It's kind of similar to

[1:46:37] that. Um so like just to preface this, I am definitely for renovating and and

[1:46:44] rejuvenating the downtown. Um, my family's been living in Highland Park

[1:46:48] since they moved from Italy in the 50s and we've all grown up in the town. So,

[1:46:53] I have a lot of respect for it and I value the town a lot. Um, I was kind of

[1:46:58] thinking as you guys were talking is I'm very curious to know because I was born

[1:47:02] in 2000 so a lot of this planning all through the years I just I you know as a

[1:47:06] kid >> where were you at

[1:47:07] » I know I'm not paying attention to it. I'm so sorry. Um, but I'm paying

[1:47:12] attention now. I was kind of curious what inspired it. Um because I've been

[1:47:18] hearing a lot of talk about like we want more foot traffic. Um we want more

[1:47:22] people to come to our businesses which I agree. I feel like our restaurants don't

[1:47:26] get as much business as they should because they're very good. Um but I'm

[1:47:32] thinking like as a a person in their 20s, a lot of

[1:47:36] like my friends, what makes them want to come to Highland Park is like our

[1:47:40] community things. like the farmers markets is like a really big one. Um

[1:47:45] sometimes like the businesses will have little things like pinos or um the

[1:47:50] fitness studios. So I'm kind of worried a little bit that we're having maybe

[1:47:54] like more restaurants potentially because I'm worried that since they're

[1:47:59] not doing maybe as well as we want them to that even though we have more people

[1:48:04] it just might not like attract their interest. So that's why I was kind of

[1:48:08] curious like what inspired this in the like what inspired everyone

[1:48:12] to want to do this and like design it in the first place?

[1:48:16] » Well, as the exhibit I'll just say the the need to kind of re redevelop and

[1:48:22] energize this area has been in the burrows before I was living here. Okay.

[1:48:27] Um and working here for sure. Um and this site in particular has been the

[1:48:32] subject to a lot of attention over the years. Um, this particular mix was

[1:48:37] something that we collaborated with Garden Homes on in terms of the

[1:48:40] restaurant. That corner would make it makes a great

[1:48:43] » In the picture, it looks really like stunning, you know.

[1:48:46] » Yeah, it it's it's it's a high because of the way the road turns. It's a very

[1:48:51] prominent corner. We wanted to kind of emphasize that. And while yes, we have a

[1:48:56] lot of really good restaurants. Um what we heard from some of the ones that have

[1:49:01] come and gone was a that you know we didn't have enough brick traffic built

[1:49:07] in um but also b some of our restaurant space is awkward to put it kindly okay

[1:49:16] and we've all been in there you know what I mean so they have weird

[1:49:20] stepups and ADA challenges and so this is kind of I think a space for a larger

[1:49:26] format restaurant that wouldn't otherwise be able to come to Highland

[1:49:31] Park. You know, hopefully more of a funky mom and pop thing. And I know

[1:49:35] Brett has a lot of fun ideas about the kind of ten that might go in there um to

[1:49:40] complement what we've got, not to try to, you know, and and

[1:49:45] for some reason restaurants like High Park. So, I think there is we are kind

[1:49:49] of a restaurant destination. So I think there is some rationale but it's a

[1:49:53] combination of having a nice outdoor dining like I don't know about you but

[1:49:57] when I'm looking for a place to go if sometimes the first thing I think where

[1:50:00] can I sit outside you know and there's not a lot of options just because of our

[1:50:04] sidewalks and our our spaces are so small. So this is an opportunity to put

[1:50:09] a kind of destination uh restaurant uh but so that's that's the theory. The

[1:50:14] theory is it rises all boats. We're not doing this to poach business away from

[1:50:19] other businesses in town. this is supposed to make everybody do better.

[1:50:23] Um, and by adding in a new dimension to what's already there. I hope I answered.

[1:50:28] » Yeah. And if if this development does well like with in terms of people coming

[1:50:34] to rent, the businesses are doing well. Would Highland Park consider doing this

[1:50:38] to other spots of the downtown area? >> Welcome to tract A. We'll talk about

[1:50:43] that another night. Yes, we have a lot of ideas.

[1:50:47] OF THIS ONE. >> SO, we hope this will be the snowball

[1:50:50] that starts the bigger snowball or whatever that

[1:50:54] is. >> And then just last curiosity is um I

[1:50:57] don't I don't know if it was mentioned or not. Where where would the farmers

[1:51:02] market move to? Would it be that indooroutdoor space or is it So,

[1:51:07] » I can't wait to get you on our mailing list. Um, we're moving, we're building a

[1:51:12] plaza here, like a closing south third to foot traffic, I mean to cars, excuse

[1:51:17] me. Opening it to people is what I'm supposed to say. Um, expanding this this

[1:51:24] parking area, but also adding a lot of function to this. Uh, so it's an

[1:51:28] L-shape, but the just like we take over a parking lot now on Fridays, the idea

[1:51:33] is we'll take over this bigger parking lot and this plaza on Fridays for the

[1:51:38] farmers market. So, we will it'll be half a block away.

[1:51:42] » Okay. >> Oh, yeah.

[1:51:45] » There we go. So, that's the concept rendering and we're literally in the

[1:51:49] final stages of designing and engineering and hopefully going out to

[1:51:52] bid in a few weeks so that we can actually construct this.

[1:51:55] » Okay. And then in the meantime while construction is going on, are we holding

[1:51:58] the farmers market or is it just >> We're trying to align that this will be

[1:52:02] done before we need to be out but we also have some plan B's we want to keep

[1:52:06] the market we absolutely that is one of their our

[1:52:10] downtown amenities for sure. >> That's great. Thank you so much.

[1:52:15] » You made it to the line. >> I only I didn't see them. Um I really

[1:52:20] like I think the uh design is beautiful. >> Oh, thank you. and better than I

[1:52:24] expected. Um, I really do like the idea of the covered up area to sit. Um, and I

[1:52:33] wish that there were rendering up there of what the apartments would look like.

[1:52:39] I mean, they should know what they're designing and it's not in there. So, I

[1:52:44] don't know when that's going to be >> You mean the interiors?

[1:52:46] » Yes. >> Gotcha.

[1:52:52] » Maybe there's a place they can go visit. Yeah. Do you have a

[1:52:55] development that has similar units? >> Yeah, we're we're just opening up the

[1:52:58] angle. Go to our website and there's there's many developments, but if you go

[1:53:03] to garden communities.com, you can see some of the newer products,

[1:53:08] » but you don't have >> So, we're working on the interiors. Um,

[1:53:12] I don't have like an interior elevation I can show you, but they're going to be

[1:53:17] it's going to be a luxury product. So >> my sister's looking at so

[1:53:23] that gives you a good flavor.

[1:53:27] » Hi.

[1:53:30] » Hello. Um, I wanted to uh second um the the traffic

[1:53:39] study um or necessity for it. Um because as a

[1:53:46] commuter I do have to deal with the traffic very much.

[1:53:51] um coming in from uh RI 18. And as some of you know, it backs up quite far. And

[1:53:59] uh with the new um um apartments coming in, there will

[1:54:05] definitely be more people in cars. Um hopefully because of where we're

[1:54:13] located, I mean, I hear you and I won't disagree. There's going to be more

[1:54:17] people physically there than not, but the location is good. We have the bus

[1:54:22] that somebody else raised, but we also have walkability. I know that doesn't

[1:54:26] help you, but we see this downtown location, especially in light of some of

[1:54:32] the commercial development going on in New Brunswick now for the Helix project.

[1:54:37] Hopefully, we see some people who maybe want to walk to work but want to live in

[1:54:40] Highland Park. But, but you're right. Then they they will present their

[1:54:43] numbers to the planning board. >> And Terry mentioned we are looking at

[1:54:47] some transportation opportunities. >> Yes. And mayor wanted to mention we are

[1:54:51] also looking at other transportation opportunities to help uh get people out

[1:54:56] of their single occupancy vehicle.

[1:55:01] » Uh and I don't know if this was addressed yet, but I was wondering if

[1:55:04] there was an estimate to how long the construction will take.

[1:55:09] » Two years is what's in the agreement. Yeah,

[1:55:12] » they'll do it quicker, but that's >> that but that's the outside gate.

[1:55:19] » And um do you know which streets and parking would be affected during

[1:55:25] construction?

[1:55:30] I mean, >> Raritan Avenue for sure because and um

[1:55:36] the but I don't know if we have the full like logistical plan, but I think we're

[1:55:42] trying to minimize disruption to on street parking in the neighborhood.

[1:55:45] Hopefully, they can do most of what they need on the site itself. Um right,

[1:55:50] Brett, >> it's a tight site. So, we're looking at

[1:55:55] that. What's the most efficient? >> I could see maybe them needing to

[1:56:00] utilize the frontage and and you know, we also have to keep access for the the

[1:56:06] you know, to the church's ADA entrance as well. So, we're we're juggling a lot.

[1:56:10] I mean, if if you live in the area, it will likely be disruptive uh during the

[1:56:16] till things settle in and rhythms establish themselves. Um

[1:56:23] um and I was wondering if there was um efforts made to um

[1:56:30] reduce noise of air and water pollution their construction

[1:56:39] our developer I mean we're following noise ordinances.

[1:56:43] » Yeah. We're sensitive to all that. I mean, I don't know if anyone's here from

[1:56:48] Walter um when we're doing construction there.

[1:56:52] » Step into the microphone. >> Sorry. Yeah. No, I don't know if

[1:56:55] anyone's here from Walter Avenue when we're doing construction over there. I

[1:56:58] know there was a lot of um unrest prior to construction and I think everyone was

[1:57:05] happy on the street as far as I know and we're very sensitive and we're we're

[1:57:10] hands-on like I'm not here today and then leave like we we don't hand off our

[1:57:16] construction to a third party. We're we're involved in every way with the

[1:57:20] project. So >> and there's a problem like

[1:57:22] » yeah let us know. >> People got to know garden homes

[1:57:26] directly. if you live in an adjacent area, they'll give you their number if

[1:57:29] you have an issue. Um, you can always contact me if you're having issues and

[1:57:33] we'll try to address them. But again, it's a tight site. We're we're working

[1:57:38] in these these margins. You know, we're going to have to all work together to to

[1:57:42] get through it. >> And I I can say that River Road, that

[1:57:46] was certainly the case when we were building River Road, there was a lot of

[1:57:50] worry about the construction debris and constru all the things that were going

[1:57:53] on. And Garden Homeless is incredibly accessible to all of the neighbors to

[1:57:57] say, "You got a problem? Give me a call." And they fix the problem right

[1:58:01] away. So, we do work very closely with neighbors to make sure

[1:58:04] » because we have the church right there. I mean, really, you know, in there. So,

[1:58:07] we're going to have to to m you manage that.

[1:58:12] » That's good to hear. Um, and last question. Uh I was wondering if there

[1:58:18] was uh an effort to match the historical character of art with the design of I

[1:58:25] guess the architecture.

[1:58:29] » That's right. >> Absolutely.

[1:58:32] » You got to be same rule applies to you.

[1:58:36] Um, so one of the when we were talking about the design, this walkway through

[1:58:41] here, this walk right there, one of the things we talked a lot about was that's

[1:58:44] a characteristics of the walkways on the north side, the ones that go in between

[1:58:49] um, you know, the catwalks, the catwalks that are up and down. We want we those

[1:58:53] those are a version of catwalks to tie into the rest of of Highland Park. We

[1:58:57] thought that was a really neat amenity. That was just one that jumped to my

[1:59:00] mind. This is going to be like a place where people can walk through from

[1:59:04] Raritton down to Magnolia just like in many places um you know uh on the north

[1:59:10] side you can walk between the streets right and so we wanted to make an homage

[1:59:14] to sort of that. Um the other thing is that

[1:59:18] unlike many different places um as Terry mentioned it's not one monolith all the

[1:59:24] way across. It doesn't all the way from across doesn't look like one thing. It

[1:59:28] looks like five different things, right? >> They look like New York brownstone.

[1:59:32] » So, you have you have things that look like this. You have others that look

[1:59:36] more like the traditional apartment. You have this right here. So, it breaks it

[1:59:39] up. And one of the things that we were really intent on is that we didn't want

[1:59:42] to have something that looked like this massive um uh institutional like

[1:59:48] building, right? Um which one of the people that that um bid on this, that's

[1:59:53] what they were going to build, right? And so we like the idea that there is

[1:59:56] some diversity within the um uh within the project. So it looks like five

[2:00:01] different things rather than one big thing. And we thought that was um

[2:00:05] characteristic of Island Park as well.

[2:00:10] » And and I would also just challenge you to articulate what our architectural

[2:00:14] character of Highland Park is. I think it's a very difficult uh question to

[2:00:19] answer because it kind of depends on what era and what your personal taste.

[2:00:22] So I think we tried to strike a balance between typologies and just the massing

[2:00:27] was what I guess I felt the most passionate about was not having that

[2:00:32] kachchunk feel that the streetscape varies. Those were things that we even

[2:00:36] put in the redevelopment plan you know early days because we knew you know that

[2:00:42] was something that we had to manage. >> Thank you.

[2:00:51] » Hi Alan. Hello, I'm Alan Williams, uh, president of Highland Park, also on the

[2:00:57] environmental commission planning board, but this is me as a resident. The

[2:01:04] you've taken away roughly 40 parking spaces from the parking lot by the by

[2:01:11] the uh church. It's got to have a m Yes.

[2:01:15] » What do you mean taken away? There are only 30 plenty of them which if you come

[2:01:22] it's either 31 or 40 lots that are spaces that are left.

[2:01:28] » Okay. And that has a major impact on the church and all the organizations that

[2:01:32] use the church. And I mean it's bad right now with

[2:01:39] uh traffic or parking spaces on uh South Second and where's the where's the

[2:01:46] borrow going to do about that? >> Well, I'll tell you during construction

[2:01:50] it'll be a challenge. Yes. >> But but what we did was it wasn't by

[2:01:54] accident. Oh, just for a farmers market, we're expanding the parking lot on South

[2:01:58] Third, a half a block away, we've added public spaces. So, the idea is, you

[2:02:05] know, those same individuals who have utilized the full parking lot, you know,

[2:02:09] during once we're fully up and running, we should be able to I don't have all

[2:02:14] the numbers handy between the two projects, Alan, but okay. But we're

[2:02:17] offsetting some of the surface lot that is now being uh developed uh with our

[2:02:24] own public parking over here and it will be public just like this was public.

[2:02:29] It's just not quite adjacent to the church but it is a

[2:02:34] » and that was one of the reasons having you know the the two ways in and out and

[2:02:39] all that stuff. And like I mentioned too, there'll be more on street

[2:02:43] available because we've opened up or closed those curb cuts. So we can

[2:02:47] rejigger the on street parking on Ritton to add some and none of those numbers

[2:02:52] included spots on Ritton. >> Okay. Has the church again. Has the

[2:02:57] borrow considered trying to lease the Baptist church parking lot on Dennis and

[2:03:06] » we have had that thought many times and had attempted communications

[2:03:12] periodically to different degrees of effect.

[2:03:14] » Okay. >> And one question for Mr. Johnson, you

[2:03:20] can have washer and dryers in the individual units.

[2:03:23] » Yes, of course. washers and dryers in the individual units. Yes.

[2:03:29] » Just for those who couldn't hear the answer.

[2:03:31] » Council member Hershe, you had a question or

[2:03:34] » I just had a comment. No, thank you, Mayor. Nothing's

[2:03:39] » Thank you. Um, I want to just I I did just want to acknowledge the comment uh

[2:03:43] regarding uh regarding the the historical nature

[2:03:47] of Highland Park. Yes, sorry. Um, it's it was and I am by no means taking

[2:03:54] ownership or agency over this, but but it but that's it was super important to

[2:03:58] the council to take into historic nature, how the town was developed. Um,

[2:04:04] you know, I mean, we have such an assortment of Cape Cods, colonials,

[2:04:08] split levels, garden apartments, apartment buildings in in Highland Park,

[2:04:12] but it's really exciting the diversity of buildings, and that really was the

[2:04:15] impetus to to to give the appearance of a of of a more diverse looking

[2:04:21] structure. Um I did just want to also just mention um you know a couple years

[2:04:25] ago when I was leazison to the uh to the historical commission uh we we uh we we

[2:04:31] received a grant uh that that actually did a survey of all the properties in

[2:04:34] the avenue uh to examine their their history. Um none is designated historic

[2:04:40] or lives up to that standard. But the history is really important and I and I

[2:04:45] and and I'm I think we're all really sensitive to that. I will note though

[2:04:48] that our history, one thing that that study revealed,

[2:04:53] one thing that that study revealed was that our history really is an automobile

[2:04:57] corridor uh that connects, you know, uh New Brunswick to the world uh and the

[2:05:03] other way around. We didn't have a planned public square. We didn't have

[2:05:07] the things that other towns might have. And you know, it's just one spine of the

[2:05:11] state highway. So this really presented a huge opportunity to create new

[2:05:16] history, create public spaces where, you know, our community really can come

[2:05:20] together, you know, in a in in in a you know, in in in a way that they can 365

[2:05:26] days a year. Uh so so so that was really important. But the diversity in the in

[2:05:31] in the design, the walkthrough like Councilman Hail mentioned, um uh uh and

[2:05:36] then creating new history uh is is is essential. But I did just want to

[2:05:40] mention that that that was really a sensitive issue for for the council and

[2:05:44] in our consideration for sure and it will continue to be. Yeah. Thanks.

[2:05:52] » Good evening. I had three questions. At the outset of this project, Mayor Foster

[2:05:57] had promised that the town would not move forward until an equally suitable

[2:06:01] or better permanent location for the existing farmers market had been fully

[2:06:05] developed and completed. Is the mayor and council willing to assure us tonight

[2:06:10] that you are going to honor that commitment and that the farmers market

[2:06:14] will have an adequate or better permanent location in place before the

[2:06:17] four existing publicly owned lots are sold to the developer.

[2:06:22] » Why don't you allow your question? >> Okay.

[2:06:24] » It was also said at the beginning of this that the council was being

[2:06:27] considerate of the tremendous liability that the developer had taken on by

[2:06:32] purchasing those properties on Rickton Avenue. Are you also considering the

[2:06:36] tremendous liability that every single homeowner in Highland Park has in the

[2:06:41] properties that they have purchased in this town? I mean, that's my single

[2:06:45] largest investment right now as my house. Uh, for the developer, those four

[2:06:49] properties are probably nowhere near as significant as they are to me. So, every

[2:06:55] action that you take tonight has to balance not only the developer's

[2:06:59] interest, but the liability that every single homeowner has and renter has in

[2:07:05] this town when you develop this property. You're putting in a load of

[2:07:11] housing, uh, a little bit of public, >> right, and one restaurant. And it just

[2:07:19] seems like you're ignoring a lot of the development practices and ideas that

[2:07:23] came in early on. And then uh my now I can't try to grab my third point.

[2:07:31] » They always come in threes. >> It's late for me.

[2:07:36] » How about I start? I'll I'll and then uh I'll take a stab at a couple. I don't

[2:07:41] want to speak for the mayor and the governing body on your first question.

[2:07:44] That's not appropriate for me. Um, but I because I've been working very hard on

[2:07:50] the new plaza on South Third, I could speak to the fact that we're trying to

[2:07:54] move heaven and earth to get it open and ready. But, you know, I know, you know,

[2:07:59] contracting in life, it doesn't always jive. So, will they

[2:08:05] exactly line up? I don't know. But, we are, I believe, committed to making sure

[2:08:10] the market has a place to operate. Um, maybe not on February 1st. we might ask

[2:08:14] for a more of a spring start date. Um but that we will have these these

[2:08:20] projects will come together uh nicely. We just you know I'll let others speak

[2:08:25] to you know do we want to delay you know a developer who's interested and ready

[2:08:31] to invest this kind of money in our town for three more months or just you know

[2:08:37] inconvenience the market for a couple months. I think that's the trade-off

[2:08:40] that we're looking at. We are hoping we don't have to make that trade-off and we

[2:08:44] can get it all to line up perfectly. Um, and then I'm not sure I totally

[2:08:50] understand the liability. I mean, I I can attest to the fact that we did our

[2:08:56] absolute best to make sure the burrow and as your representatives in this

[2:09:01] negotiation got everything we wanted out of this

[2:09:05] project. Um, and we thought that the community had asked for. Um, and we

[2:09:09] thought we, you know, when we've kind of already expressed a lot of the kind of

[2:09:13] pieces of the deal and we feel really good about where it came out and we take

[2:09:19] very seriously our roles as kind of protecting the public interest in this

[2:09:23] deal. Um, and I too own a house here and it is my single uh point of as do I

[2:09:30] believe every member of the council in some way or shape.

[2:09:33] » Oh, sorry. Sorry, I forgot. But even the renters have invested in your your

[2:09:38] message. So I I take it seriously. I mean, you know, we we will never know

[2:09:43] because we have squeezed a little more out, but we really feel like we got our

[2:09:47] high priority items addressed in in this project. And I think Mar

[2:09:58] to answer your question about our commitment to making sure that the

[2:10:02] farmers market have a home. We're still committed to that that the farmer

[2:10:05] farmers market will have a home. However, we have seen the weather that

[2:10:10] we've had this past winter and construction does not go on in that kind

[2:10:16] of weather and we're hoping that we will not have that kind of weather. But if we

[2:10:19] do and there's inclement weather where the work cannot be completed, it it will

[2:10:24] take a step back because we'll have to stop doing construction and what have

[2:10:28] you. But I can assure you that the farmers market will have a home in which

[2:10:32] to operate. >> Thank you.

[2:10:36] I thought of my third question too. >> I see bought you some time.

[2:10:40] » The um right now you said earlier that um it wasn't so much about closing south

[2:10:45] third to cars but opening it to the public. I I fully believe that all

[2:10:50] streets are already open to the public. We get to use them however we want and

[2:10:53] we just kind of prioritize cars on them. But if you already have permission from

[2:10:57] the DOT for the last year and a half to close that street to cars and open it to

[2:11:04] the public, why haven't you done so? >> Well, we have a permit, but it requires

[2:11:09] a lot of intersection improvements. Like we don't get it unless we do all the

[2:11:13] things in that space. the ballards, the the signalized intersection, all of that

[2:11:20] work is built is getting built into arterials design work for the plaza and

[2:11:25] will get rolled out and phased in together. So, they didn't approve

[2:11:30] putting up concrete barriers and closing the road whenever we want. They approved

[2:11:36] a very specific method of closure inclusive of improvements to all those

[2:11:42] signals on do on DOT property which is not going to be free. We're going to

[2:11:48] have to pay for that. So we felt it would be better to just incorporate it

[2:11:52] so that we the phasing all works out so when the pro projects ready to roll out

[2:11:56] we're we're good to go. Um and so that's the answer. Yes, we have the approval to

[2:12:02] close it, but there's very specific way we must close it.

[2:12:05] » Thank you. >> And also speak about the underground

[2:12:09] infrastructure that you know we have to get done.

[2:12:11] » Yes. Um on on South Third in advance of the plaza construction. We are a couple

[2:12:18] weeks away. I apologize. Now, if you live on South Third, we will be But the

[2:12:22] good news is we're replacing your water man and cleaning and lining the sewer on

[2:12:26] South Third well before we build this plaza because the last thing we want is

[2:12:30] a problem that requires opening up the pedestrian plaza for repairs. So, that's

[2:12:37] going within the next two weeks. We've already awarded that contract and that's

[2:12:40] going to be rolling. Demolition of the two houses will follow the ones on

[2:12:44] either side of our existing parking lot. Um we're just synchronizing those

[2:12:48] efforts. So um a lot of balls in the air and the thought of doing temporary

[2:12:54] weekend closures or a permanent Yeah. We just said we got to just do this as with

[2:12:59] one contractor in one one face. >> All right. I think we're done with in

[2:13:05] person. I should check on the Zoom with your permission.

[2:13:08] » Uh yes, please. If there's anyone on Zoom with any question,

[2:13:13] your hands up. Is it you? >> I'll put it down. Thank you.

[2:13:16] » We just want to note it's 9:15 and we we want to conclude in another 15 minutes

[2:13:22] or so to wrap everything up. >> So, we're going to be wrapping in 15. Um

[2:13:26] I mentioned at the top, but for those of you who came in late, these slides will

[2:13:30] be up on our website tomorrow. Um once we get the video uh up downloaded, we

[2:13:37] will upload it to our YouTube channel. So we will have um that those materials

[2:13:42] available to you uh to look at in more detail.

[2:13:47] » We have one more. Hi. Hi. Um I just wanted to confirm or clarify what I saw

[2:13:53] the timeline um slide but the next step didn't have an a date. So

[2:14:01] » which which I had two timeline sites. I'll go to the first one.

[2:14:04] » Yeah. >> This one. Uh no

[2:14:08] that there are a lot of the latter timeline is contingent upon certain

[2:14:13] things happening so there aren't specific

[2:14:15] » I guess my question is I know there's I believe there's a council meeting next

[2:14:19] week is that correct? >> Yes.

[2:14:21] » So what is the is there going to be action taken on this all that council

[2:14:26] meeting? the the current plan is that the redevelopment agreement which was

[2:14:31] not the the money deal but the kind of who get what who is what we're getting

[2:14:38] community benefits what the the developers committed to those terms that

[2:14:43] Joe presented in the first half of his remarks we have that pretty well fleshed

[2:14:49] out and intend to authorize execution of that redevelopment agreement at the next

[2:14:55] meeting with the mayor's permission and the council support. It's not done yet,

[2:14:59] but it will likely be on the agenda. Um the financial agreement we we're still

[2:15:05] like reading through and making sure there's no mistakes, but we feel like we

[2:15:09] have the terms as you heard earlier really well ironed out. So it could be

[2:15:13] as soon as October, the first meeting in October that introduced along with this

[2:15:18] purchase and sale agreement uh event. So the effective date I is is the date of

[2:15:25] signature Joe on the red development agreement.

[2:15:27] » Yeah. >> So once we execute that agreement a lot

[2:15:31] of this stuff flows but a big one here is you know you know I don't know all of

[2:15:37] Brett's I would love to know all the things but DOT is in there probably

[2:15:41] county there's probably some some other it's not just burrow approvals there are

[2:15:46] other levels. um this is uh going to be for storm water uh a major disturbance

[2:15:52] or whatever. It's a higher tier storm water review that goes on and has to

[2:15:56] have a permit. So there's there's some additional stuff which they've been

[2:16:00] working on. So we hope it's not 12 months but you know that's that's it. So

[2:16:05] then once we've got you know commencement basically once they start

[2:16:09] construction they got two years. >> And my last question is will these

[2:16:13] slides be posted online after the meeting? I thought I said that. Yes.

[2:16:16] Sorry. Yes. So, the slide deck will be there, the video will be there, um, and

[2:16:21] our contact information is also there for any other questions that come up.

[2:16:27] » Very quick, just understanding what you said before and understanding that the

[2:16:31] harshness of the winter, etc., I really do think that

[2:16:35] delaying the developer in line with a valued community asset

[2:16:41] like the farmers market is would be acceptable to our community.

[2:16:45] » Okay. to share.

[2:16:48] » Um, oh, we got All right. Did you know the time was there? I didn't know.

[2:16:53] » Yes, I did. All right. >> We start at 9:15. We're ended in 10

[2:16:56] minutes. >> Okay.

[2:16:58] » Um, other people online that haven't gone yet.

[2:17:00] » Uh, your hands up at home. Raise your hand now.

[2:17:10] » We have no hands up. So I I understand heard the clear, you know, you said it's

[2:17:15] late in the process and that it would be really inconvenient bordering on, you

[2:17:20] know, pulling your hair out sort of like to to change at this point. And I I try

[2:17:26] not to be a stick in the mud, but it is like a once in a generation land

[2:17:29] assembly opportunity that's not easily recaptured. And you know, I think even

[2:17:35] though it's late, it's not legally impossible. And I think those at the p

[2:17:39] dollar pickers that are being, you know, exchanged in this kind of development,

[2:17:43] those houses are for sale. >> Oh, you're talking about I'm sorry. I

[2:17:46] thought I'm talking about I'm talking about acquisition of the

[2:17:50] » We I don't look I would be happy to talk with the governing body about phase two.

[2:17:55] » You know, I there's no money for phase two.

[2:17:59] Well, if we get some redevelopment going on, as opposed to I I understand

[2:18:04] » I'm talking about swapping out the community benefit of the plaza,

[2:18:09] » the 6,000 ft of open >> that I don't think is is is something we

[2:18:13] we could talk about. >> I I and I think another point

[2:18:19] » I was talking about pulling my hair out about the indoor outdoor cover and the

[2:18:23] design building. >> Well, I again the that's the major

[2:18:27] community benefit. Mhm. >> Um so in terms of what we're getting

[2:18:30] that has an assigned negotiating value or assignable negotiating value, that's

[2:18:36] it. Um it's comparable in size and value to some, you know, one or both of those

[2:18:42] properties that are next to the Burough Square development. And land assemblage

[2:18:47] is really key. It's not easy to do. Um we're not going to have a lot of

[2:18:51] opportunities to get, you know, another $2 million to put into something like

[2:18:56] that. Um, so you know, and you mentioned maybe in 30 years or 50 years.

[2:19:01] » You misunderstood me. You totally misunderstood me. I'll clarify my point.

[2:19:05] » Okay. So, give me one second. The >> what I was referring to was this space

[2:19:10] in in the in the building which you had questioned which I understand your

[2:19:15] reasoning is couldn't we give that up and reinvest whatever

[2:19:21] which which I and I think we can look at both. We do we have a history in town of

[2:19:27] making investments in acquisitions. I I could talk all night. We talk about

[2:19:33] tract A where we've done a lot of that. Um this council has been very aggressive

[2:19:39] where appropriate, but I think we felt we there was also a considerable amount

[2:19:43] of pressure to get this done so that we could have a place for core functions. I

[2:19:51] see no reason why this couldn't be a secondary phase of the bus. And that's

[2:19:55] how I I we got that feedback at our community meeting on the plaza and that

[2:20:01] was kind of where the governing body landed on it.

[2:20:04] » Uh but I have a member of the governing body right next to me.

[2:20:08] » So throughout this entire process the indoor outdoor covered space over there

[2:20:13] the the the public space that is in this >> in my estimation was the number one

[2:20:19] priority that we heard from people that they wanted that

[2:20:22] » by far. It was the number one. It was number one from Main Street. It was

[2:20:25] number one from It was number one from many many entities that said we need to

[2:20:29] have what public space are we going to have a flexible public space. We reacted

[2:20:34] to that. We have addressed that. We have done that. And so in the entire process

[2:20:41] that was something that we heard loud and clear that that was what people

[2:20:46] wanted a part of what people secondly both the house where the little yellow

[2:20:51] brick road and the one in the other side of that we bought

[2:20:54] » we went out and we acquired those >> brav thank you we have a history I think

[2:21:00] of acquiring property when we see a plan and a way to do this right so as Terry

[2:21:06] said I I I think we certainly can think of those as additional acquisitions.

[2:21:11] But what I'm what I'm trying to convey is that as of now, as of this process,

[2:21:18] that indooroutdoor community space plus the space over on Burough Square was

[2:21:24] probably the most important thing that we kept hearing again and again and

[2:21:28] again from people that this was fundamental that we had to get something

[2:21:31] like this. We had to get something else. >> I have an interpretation. Okay. And as

[2:21:35] someone who does like survey work and you know public process

[2:21:39] um I understand how these things go. My interpretation of it is that when this

[2:21:45] development was first announced people were very concerned about losing a

[2:21:49] farmers market and they wanted public space. Excuse they were focused on that

[2:21:54] spot. They weren't really oriented around the fact or the reality or the

[2:21:57] possibility or trusting anyone that would get some other public space

[2:22:01] somewhere else. No one was ever presented with the idea

[2:22:05] or the choice between would you rather have a smallish space as a plaza here or

[2:22:10] a really big proper like square which is the would have been a proper way to

[2:22:15] frame that and if it was presented as a choice would you rather have this or

[2:22:18] that um I'm not going to presuppose the answers you would have gotten but I

[2:22:23] think they would have been different so um I I discount quite a bit the you know

[2:22:29] claim that that's what the public wanted the public was given

[2:22:32] a finite set of choices that shapes the response. And I'm not saying it was

[2:22:37] malicious. It's just sort of like the momentum of the process and the way it

[2:22:40] evolves. Um, which doesn't change whether or not this

[2:22:45] is feasible to change at this point. But I do think, you know, and and how Park's

[2:22:50] budget coming up with two million bucks to buy to acquire two new properties,

[2:22:55] it's tough. It's tough. and the value of that indoor outdoor space, especially

[2:22:59] given the fact that you could turn that into apartments or commercial space for

[2:23:02] the next hundred years. That's a lot of that's a lot of resources to invest into

[2:23:07] that thing. That's the main community benefit other than development itself,

[2:23:11] which obviously is huge, but that's the main community benefit that we're

[2:23:14] getting. So, I mean, and we only get one and I hear what you're saying that we

[2:23:19] can get it in another phase, but like how are we going to come up with two

[2:23:22] million bucks in our little town? So, that's why I'm a little fixated on it.

[2:23:26] Let let me suggest that um this is not the only opportunity. So as you

[2:23:32] described that's a significant asset worth money. Um you can envision a time

[2:23:39] 20 years from now where we'd come to Brett and we say you know what we're not

[2:23:44] really using this space. >> I don't want to envision 20 years from

[2:23:46] now. >> My point is 25 years.

[2:23:48] » Brett what would you do to if we want you want to buy it back from us right

[2:23:53] now? We have it for for 100 years at a dollar. It's worth a lot more than that

[2:23:57] to you. You could envision a possibility. I'm I'm challenging the

[2:24:00] point that once we do this, it can never we could never monetize it.

[2:24:05] » I understand. >> I think we can monetize it.

[2:24:07] » I think you partially, you know, backed up my point because you're like in 20

[2:24:10] years like, well, that would to me not what I'm looking at.

[2:24:13] » And and I also want to note that that's a benefit to the developer. I mean, it's

[2:24:17] an amenity for his building that his residents get to share provides an

[2:24:21] aesthetic to the building, but one that he's not having to compromise more more

[2:24:25] units for. Um, he's, you know, because that's checking the ledger for his

[2:24:30] community benefits. No, no offense, but you know, um,

[2:24:36] so again, >> the only other point is the other

[2:24:38] property is not for sale. >> I'm sure they have a

[2:24:42] » that takes years and years, too. >> I'm sure they have a price. I don't know

[2:24:44] if they have, you know, a family burial ground in the backyard.

[2:24:47] » I'm going down around I I go I could talk forever about the plaza. The one

[2:24:53] thing I want to mention because we did look at that was a feedback from our

[2:24:56] community meeting last year about the plaza. Could we expand? And I had like

[2:25:02] design concerns about it being too big because to me some of the most failed

[2:25:07] plazas are ones that try to be too long, too big, and they don't really. So I I

[2:25:12] think we would need an equally robust plan for your idea.

[2:25:16] » Main Street's already come out with a >> Well, it's just a long Okay, I don't

[2:25:19] want to get back and forth for for Fridays, Randy and not for 20 365. And

[2:25:26] so I think this is much more what we need on a most days of the week basis.

[2:25:32] That said, I think a phase, a secondary phase that looks at those potential

[2:25:37] properties with maybe a little development there that would frame an

[2:25:42] extended plaza would be really cool, but we also want to see this project happen

[2:25:47] and we need a place to run our farmers market in the meantime. So, we had to we

[2:25:52] had to jump. We had a a design that the community does like. We had really good

[2:25:56] feedback on it. I'm not saying it can't be improved. I I get the timing issues

[2:26:01] and I think you know just to know you know I've been saying this for a long

[2:26:04] time other people have been saying this for a long time. I think the the mini

[2:26:07] pause had its own momentum and it just kind of happened and I sort of don't

[2:26:10] know how it happened but that became the thing as opposed to focusing more on

[2:26:14] acquisition. But having said that um I get that you want the development to

[2:26:20] happen it's really important that it happens and you strike when the iron is

[2:26:23] hot and all the all the elements come together. I really do understand that

[2:26:28] and I also really understand that. Um, and then if that's going to happen, then

[2:26:32] you need to put the farmers market somewhere and we don't own those things

[2:26:34] yet. Even if we decided that's the top priority, that's still going to take

[2:26:38] time and then you're going to have to re-engineer stuff. I get all that. It's

[2:26:42] unfortunate. I get it though. But how how realistic is it really to be able to

[2:26:46] acquire those two properties outside of like a redevelopment agreement for the

[2:26:50] town? >> You're really realistic.

[2:26:53] So, you're kind of suggesting that we condemn those properties just to have

[2:26:56] them >> or make no pay for them.

[2:26:58] » Just make try to make an offer. >> Just make an offer. They can't refuse.

[2:27:00] » But they're not. >> I mean, a monetary offer, not like a you

[2:27:03] know, gangster. >> They're not interested in selling. So,

[2:27:06] that would be the next option. >> What's that?

[2:27:09] » They're not They're not interested in selling at this point.

[2:27:12] » Well, I think you pay a little over market.

[2:27:15] » Okay. All right. So, no.

[2:27:19] » I'm sorry. Somebody said something. Oh, sorry.

[2:27:23] Well, no, I'm not. That's why I'm saying they're saying

[2:27:28] » it's amazing to say is that real >> and and I think my point is maybe it's

[2:27:33] not. >> I I

[2:27:36] » outside of uh outside of significant windfall that will come out of rebellion

[2:27:42] with this. >> All right. Thank you, Randy.

[2:27:44] » Okay. >> Um

[2:27:46] » and this time we're going to conclude. Oh, mayor, do you want to

[2:27:50] » set a straight

[2:27:57] » I want to thank everyone for coming out and for all the questions you have. We

[2:28:01] will be posting all of this on our website. It will be on YouTube, all our

[2:28:07] social media handles. So you can go and if you have additional questions that

[2:28:12] you you think about or you need additional questions answered, please

[2:28:16] email us and we will respond to those questions as well and we'll make all the

[2:28:20] the Q&A's available online. Thank you for coming out and thank you for lending

[2:28:25] your voice and your opinion to the project. Have a good night.

Tract C Redevelopment Community Meeting - September 10, 2026

Transcript