[0:03] Thank you. It is 6:00 PM, the town of the Plata Planning Commission

[0:07] is called to order.

[0:08] Madam Clerk, would you please?

[0:11] Perform roll call for form verification purposes.

[0:15] Certainly, ma'am, Commissioner, banks.

[0:18] Here here.

[0:19] Commissioner hardnell.

[0:22] Councilman guttenberg.

[0:23] Here here.

[0:24] Commissioner Wale.

[0:25] Here.

[0:27] Commissioner Miller.

[0:27] Here.

[0:29] Commissioner Ford is absent. Madam Mayor. Madam Chair, you have the quorum.

[0:34] Thank you.

[0:37] Commissioner, well, would you lead us in the Pledge of

[0:39] Allegiance, please?

[0:45] In the black community.

[0:49] Which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible,

[0:54] with liberty and justice for all.

[1:02] Thank you, ma'am.

[1:06] We're gonna move to the approval of the meeting minutes from our August 5th 2026

[1:11] meeting.

[1:11] Have all the Commissioners and Councilman Goodenberg review the minutes from our

[1:16] August 5th meeting.

[1:19] Yes, yes, yes, thank you. With the exception of Commissioner Miller.

[1:27] Is there a motion to approve the Minutes as is?

[1:31] And or are there any changes or corrections?

[1:36] I'll motion to approve the Minutes from the August 5th meeting with no

[1:41] corrections or additions.

[1:43] Is there a second second?

[1:48] Councilman Gutenberg, what say you? Yes.

[1:53] Right. Sarah hudnall? Yes, Commissioner, will.

[1:57] Yes, I am a yes.

[2:00] The Minutes of our August 5th meeting have been approved in.

[2:06] Unanimously.

[2:08] It only took the third time.

[2:10] Thank you.

[2:12] Next on the agenda is the ex parte disclosure.

[2:15] For the purposes of this disclosure, have any of the Commissioners or

[2:19] counseling engaged in any off the record?

[2:23] Communications with applicants, developers, stakeholders, neighbors,

[2:27] or other friends regarding any other projects before the Commission or outside

[2:32] of the public hearing process.

[2:35] Councilman gutenberg. Was that you?

[2:36] No vice chair hudnell, no commissioner Wale.

[2:41] None other than what's listed in the staff report for the subcommittee.

[2:47] Can you elaborate?

[2:49] So we met on the subcommittee.

[2:50] So that's the only. Yeah, that's the only conversation that I've

[2:55] had. OK, commissioner. No. And now that, have I we got to pause here to to do the

[3:02] public comment.

[3:04] Are there any public comments?

[3:08] OK.

[3:09] There are none, so we will move on.

[3:12] Next on the agenda is old business.

[3:17] Which is the zoning text amendment 03/20/26.

[3:20] The Water Conservation Ordinance director Dooley let me turn to you on this.

[3:29] Thank you, chair banks.

[3:32] What I'd like to do is to go through and do a presentation on the change that have

[3:38] been made to the text of the draft ordinance as it's presented to you

[3:42] tonight.

[3:44] And then I'll introduce some additional comments that were provided today by

[3:51] Council liaison Gutenberg.

[3:54] So if I go to the slides.

[4:00] There we go. Next slide please.

[4:04] So this is zoning text, Amendment 03, Dash 2026.

[4:08] This is a request to do a couple things.

[4:11] 1st it's to add Article 11 the water conservation and Emergency Restrictions

[4:16] Ordinance to chapter one, 91191 zoning of Lopel to municipal code

[4:21] for the purpose of providing regulatory provisions for water conservation

[4:25] measures and to add emergency restrictions on water use during a town

[4:30] decl.

[4:30] Water conservation alert.

[4:32] And secondly, it's to amend Chapter 191.

[4:35] 48 landscaping, a little plate, a municipal code for the purpose of

[4:39] facilitating water conservation. Measures related to the installation of

[4:43] new landscaping for residential and non residential developments.

[4:47] Next slide.

[4:52] In September of 2025, the town council sought to ensure

[4:56] adequate public facility infrastructure for new development apfo standards for

[5:01] water, sewer school, seating capacity and roads were

[5:05] subsequently developed and adopted by the town council earlier this year and are

[5:10] now codified. Next slide.

[5:14] Because of the Maryland Department of the Environment will not expand the town's

[5:19] groundwater permit without supplemental water resources.

[5:22] The town is in the process of advancing a three-part water management strategy that

[5:28] includes our recently completed.

[5:31] Adequate public facilities ordinances, which includes water negotiating a

[5:36] supplemental water agreement with the county, which is in process,

[5:40] and 3rd developing a formal water developing formal water conservation

[5:44] policy.

[5:45] Which are proposed under this Sony text amendment. Next slide please.

[5:50] Give you a little bit of background since we last met on this in June of 2026,

[5:55] the draft Water Conservation Ordinance was introduced to the Commission for

[5:59] initial discussion the following month. On July 7th,

[6:02] the Commission agreed that the draft ordinance is an appropriate tool for.

[6:07] Managing water, the Commission emphasized the draft

[6:09] ordinance must be reasonable, logical, non punitive and aligned with state

[6:14] drought policies.

[6:15] A Planning Commission subcommittee, composed of Commissioners,

[6:19] whale and banks, was formed to help direct and refine the

[6:22] ordinance originally presented to the Commission.

[6:25] The subcommittee met on July 20 on July 30th and August 13th, 2026.

[6:31] For the purposes of again of directing and refining the ordinance.

[6:37] Based on those meetings.

[6:39] The subcommittee subsequently.

[6:43] Directed staff to make.

[6:45] Specific changes to the original draft ordinance,

[6:48] which is now being presented tonight.

[6:51] Probably the most significant refinement to the ordinance was taken to provide

[6:57] closer alignment with the state's mandatory as the state's level 1

[7:01] mandatory water use restrictions for consistency.

[7:06] With our work with this proposed ordinance and state policy.

[7:09] Next slide.

[7:13] So under zoning text, Amendment 03, Dash 2026,

[7:17] two sets of code amendments are proposed.

[7:20] The text amendments would be incorporated within the following portions of Chapter

[7:27] 191 of the town's municipal code or zoning code. In this case,

[7:32] it's Chapter 191 zoning section 191. 48 for landscaping and.

[7:38] Staff would be proposing Article 11 to section 191 zoning for water conservation.

[7:43] And emergency restrictions. Next slide.

[7:49] So beginning with section 19148.

[7:55] A&B for landscaping.

[7:59] Aside from modifying the provision requiring 2 to 3 inches of mulch to be

[8:04] used for new landscaping, no changes were made or suggested made by

[8:09] the subcommittee subsection 5 or Excuse me,

[8:12] Subsection B5 now states that planning bed shall include sufficient mulch to

[8:17] reduce water to red.

[8:19] Evaporation.

[8:21] So to provide a little bit more flexibility in terms of the amount of

[8:25] mulch the the subcommittee felt, it was a little bit too granular to get

[8:29] into those levels of details. Next slide.

[8:34] So most of the proposed changes are under article proposed under Article 11 Section

[8:41] 191.

[8:42] And to start with.

[8:44] Section 19198 a.

[8:46] The purpose, applicability, and definition section,

[8:50] section A3 triple I was modified to include land use such as data centers,

[8:56] hotels, and motels as additional examples of

[8:59] designated large volume users.

[9:02] And again, these were just more to identify.

[9:04] By other types of land uses.

[9:09] And that.

[9:11] Are typically designed large volume users. Next slide.

[9:17] So no changes were proposed by the subcommittee under the heading of

[9:21] declaration and rescission of Water Conservation Alert next slide.

[9:28] Under the section 19198 C mandatory outdoor water limitations,

[9:32] underwater Conservation alert heading the PC subcommittee recommended the following

[9:38] that the town CEO or town manager may adjust watering hours from the proposed

[9:44] standard from 6:00 PM.

[9:46] To 10:00 AM during a water conservation alert for flexibility to the grass,

[9:52] watering is prohibited except as allowed under the state's level 1 criteria.

[9:59] And.

[10:01] For the Commission's reference, the the all of the state level 1 criteria

[10:05] was part of your package that was included,

[10:08] so you can you can reference that and then third exceptions have been

[10:12] introduced for water and grass in certain cases.

[10:15] Such As for new sod installation, agriculture when water conservation plan

[10:21] is in place and when water shut off valves and drip irrigation systems are

[10:26] used for watering next slide.

[10:29] Under the heading prohibition of non essential water use under a water

[10:34] conservation alert, the following changes were suggestion.

[10:38] The section was expanded to prohibit washing of paved surfaces such as patios,

[10:43] decks, garages except for public health purposes.

[10:47] Which aligns with the state level 1 mandatory restrictions.

[10:51] It also prohibits mobile vehicle washing, except for car washes that use recycled

[10:57] water or have a water conservation plan in place and for essential maintenance of

[11:03] EMS vehicles like fire trucks, police cars, whatnot,

[11:06] as well as public transportation and construction equipment so that the the

[11:11] people can see.

[11:13] Out the vehicles for driving, among other reasons.

[11:16] Next slide.

[11:19] Under recreational and decorative water use under a water conservation alert.

[11:26] The use of reflecting pools was added to recreational water features,

[11:31] which are prohibited under the draft ordinance except when water is

[11:36] recirculated and then secondly, the subcommittee added misting machines

[11:41] as a prohibited use of water because there's no ability to recycle that next

[11:46] slide.

[11:51] Under the heading of water service to patrons,

[11:54] this was added by the by the subcommittee and it aligns with state guidelines,

[11:59] and it's it's concerning the service of tap water or drinking water and eating

[12:04] established establishments are prohibited except when requested by patrons,

[12:09] which is a fairly common.

[12:11] Water. Water.

[12:14] Limitation.

[12:16] Provision in in other communities. Next slide.

[12:23] Under the heading large volume, commercial,

[12:25] industrial and institutional users underwater conservation alert.

[12:31] For large.

[12:32] For large volume users, a minimum 10% water reduction goal was

[12:36] added to the draft ordinance as an objective goal during water conservation

[12:41] alert. If required by the town manager.

[12:44] This is again consistent with state guidelines.

[12:46] The Water Conservation Plan would demonstrate.

[12:51] How reduced water?

[12:52] Our usage would be achieved in contrast to comparable periods of the of this

[12:58] during the same year for prior years.

[13:03] Next line.

[13:06] There were no recommended changes under emergency and health safety exemptions.

[13:12] In the draft ordinance, next slide.

[13:16] There are also no recommended changes under the heading of relationship with

[13:20] alternative systems.

[13:23] Next slide.

[13:26] Water systems repairs was added to the draft ordinance,

[13:30] and this provision specifies that property owners of that property owners

[13:35] address any known water leaks on their property as soon as practicable.

[13:41] To give them time to organize and collect resources,

[13:45] they need to make necessary repairs. So if there's ongoing water leaks on the

[13:50] property, they're known, we'd like for the the community to or

[13:54] property owners to fix those as soon as possible.

[13:58] Next slide.

[14:01] Under enforcement and penalties, an advisory position provision was added

[14:06] to the draft ordinance to state that a common sense approach shall be taken.

[14:11] Reasonable enforcement of the water conservation provisions under this

[14:16] article and the the idea behind that was really to.

[14:22] Provide or to set a tone for the spirit of the necessary of any necessary

[14:28] enforcement activity.

[14:30] It's it's not to to go out and and harass proper owners at all.

[14:36] It's just meant to say, look, you know, if somebody worked with the property

[14:40] owner, there's a known problem out there.

[14:43] But not, you know, not over overly.

[14:47] Not overly be demanding.

[14:49] Let's work with the property owner.

[14:51] That's that's really at the heart of what the intent is here.

[14:55] Next slide.

[14:58] No changes were proposed under Severability.

[15:02] The next slide, underwater exemption or excuse me

[15:05] underwater hardship exemption application.

[15:08] The PC Subcommittee Committee provided provisions to create a more structured

[15:13] process that gives the Chief executive Officer Town manager guidance on how to

[15:19] evaluate a request for exemptions to one or more of the provisions of the draft

[15:25] water ordinance, and then the ability to appeal the town

[15:29] man.

[15:29] 'S decision to the Board of Appeals.

[15:31] If he or she denies a water hardship exemption application,

[15:35] and again this the process is to give appellants greater due process than the

[15:40] prior draft ordinance did to promote fairness in in reasonable consideration

[15:45] of water usage concerns by any member of the public.

[15:50] And next slide.

[15:53] And as I mentioned earlier, the Commissioner liaison, Gutenberg,

[15:57] did provide some additional comments or his comments today, which were.

[16:05] Before you as a hard copy and also added to the town's website.

[16:12] Staff has not received any other Commissioner comments on on this

[16:14] particular zoning ordinance at this time.

[16:18] These comments have been should be excuse me.

[16:22] The Commission should consider these comments in addition, to course,

[16:26] any feedback received tonight by other members of the Commission next slide.

[16:33] SAS recommendation is subject to the Commission's feedback and the revisions

[16:37] on the current draft and the revisions on the current draft ordinance.

[16:41] The Commission should direct staff on whether or not the Commission is ready to

[16:46] proceed with a public hearing on zoning text Amendment 03/20.

[16:50] 26 for the October 6, 2026, Planning Commission meeting,

[16:54] which is your next meeting following this.

[16:58] So with that.

[17:00] You have.

[17:03] Commissioner.

[17:04] Commission liaison Gutenberg's comments.

[17:08] If you have any questions, happy to answer them at this time.

[17:12] Thank you.

[17:14] Before I turn to my colleagues here, I just want to make one correction.

[17:19] For the record. You said that the subcommittee was

[17:23] comprised of Commissioner well and Commissioner banks.

[17:27] It's actually, Commissioner, will and Commissioner Ford.

[17:31] I'm I apologize.

[17:32] Yes, Commissioner, I was looking.

[17:35] I think I was looking at you.

[17:37] Yes, it's commissioner.

[17:38] Commissioner Ford and Commissioner whale well,

[17:41] actually it was written in the in your presentation. Oh, OK.

[17:44] So Mark, my apologies.

[17:47] No worries, I'll take credit.

[17:51] So let me turn to again my colleagues here.

[17:55] Commissioner Miller, any thoughts? Any comments?

[18:02] Yeah. Good evening.

[18:04] Good to see you.

[18:04] I was here not here last week or last month.

[18:09] I do think that the Subcommittee and the staff did a a good job addressing a lot

[18:14] of consideration.

[18:15] I think most of my initial comments from the June meeting.

[18:21] Were addressed. So if I repeat anything that we talked

[18:24] about, I apologize from from the August meeting.

[18:30] For.

[18:33] Did did we discuss a sunset clause like for to like a 60 day sunset clause,

[18:39] or is it still indefinite?

[18:42] Or was there any discussion or reason why?

[18:45] Well, the well, the sunset, there is no specific sunset clause.

[18:49] The the the water Conservation Alert would be.

[18:55] Would be.

[18:57] There be a subsequent.

[18:58] Ultimately, there'd be a subsequent announcement when

[19:01] it would no longer be in effect if that's, but I'm not quite sure.

[19:05] Otherwise, it could be just indefinite.

[19:08] Alert the well.

[19:10] The alert would be rescinded at at some point when there was no longer the need

[19:15] for the water conservation alert, and that would that would be largely

[19:19] based on following the state's path.

[19:24] And did we discuss any metrics of how we wanna,

[19:27] how we can measure the effectiveness of the program?

[19:32] Like we expect it to reduce consumption by 10% and then we could show that, hey,

[19:39] this plan is actually successful and the following ways.

[19:46] To answer your your question straight up, no,

[19:49] there's there's no specific analysis for that.

[19:52] It's sort of a little bit difficult a little bit.

[19:57] Challenging to to make certain assumptions and how we would actually go

[20:00] out and force and measure that.

[20:02] We do know that that we can measure water use by by by building cycle and actually

[20:09] reading the meters. But the only fundamental water reduction

[20:14] that we could measure is if we wanted to have a water conservation reduction.

[20:21] Of 10% to for like large users or for car washes that don't have recycled water for

[20:28] example.

[20:28] Because we can.

[20:29] We can identify what their usage was at the same time during the prior year and

[20:35] what measures that they would use in order to reduce that water down by 10%.

[20:41] But aside from the overall overarching ordinance to actually say this is going

[20:47] to reduce water by a.

[20:48] Certain percentage now.

[20:49] And and that would be.

[20:50] A bit challenging perhaps to do so. I'm not sure what that metric would

[20:54] really look like.

[20:55] I saw that it was mostly like meter readings is.

[21:01] Like the primary way, but there would be no way to make a

[21:05] distinction of this individual or entity violated.

[21:08] The they weren't in compliance versus maybe they just had extra family members

[21:14] in for that week or whatever.

[21:15] There would be no.

[21:16] I mean, I like how we added the common sense

[21:18] approach.

[21:22] Yeah, there would just be no way to make a

[21:24] distinction from meter reading.

[21:26] That's not all we can do. I mean, you know,

[21:29] part of the part of the ordinance is is intended to be.

[21:35] It for it's it's certainly it's the ordinances tend to be enforceable but

[21:40] it's it's also meant to to collaborate with the community and and part of that

[21:45] collaboration means education providing you know some.

[21:50] At least if there is a.

[21:52] A water issue to work with the property owner to help them understand what the

[21:57] ordinance is and what the the public policy is intended to achieve.

[22:03] To to get their sort of get their attention and cooperation understanding.

[22:09] And so it's it's not meant to, you know, immediately try to, you know enact,

[22:14] you know, draconian efforts to get them to reduce

[22:18] the water.

[22:20] So it's it's there, it's.

[22:22] That you would be there to to use as a as the legislative backup to deal with,

[22:27] but it's fundamentally it's. I think there's a lot of personal

[22:31] relationships that need to be developed to help facilitate and successful

[22:35] implementation. If there were problems.

[22:39] Yeah, I appreciate that.

[22:40] That part of it.

[22:41] Is there a my last question for now would be the conservation plan that an entity

[22:49] or the.

[22:51] Would.

[22:52] Possibly submit? Would there be any template or?

[22:58] Any way to say this is what you need to have outlined?

[23:03] For a conservation plan to be accepted, or that's something we have not done at

[23:08] this point, if the ordinance is ultimately adopted,

[23:11] we'll have to develop some administrative.

[23:15] Policies for how we would achieve that.

[23:18] And I think that's more of a minor, a minor that makes sense.

[23:23] Policy development. This might be out of scope,

[23:27] but do we have any?

[23:30] Kind of sense of an additional administrative burden this might put on

[23:36] the.

[23:37] On the department.

[23:39] Well, it's.

[23:43] At this point, I would. I would.

[23:47] I can't for the planning department.

[23:49] No, it will really has no additional.

[23:52] Significant impact where it's really going to impact potentially its Co

[23:55] enforcement, which is in a different different

[23:57] department than planning, but.

[24:01] The Water Conservation Ordinance, I wouldn't expect to have any,

[24:05] any significant impact on either department.

[24:07] Ultimately, I don't really expect you know that to

[24:11] have a recurring issue.

[24:13] User alerts on a normal basis. I mean, we're going to have them from time to

[24:18] time if there's if there's code enforcements made aware of it,

[24:22] as we always do, we always pretty collaborate pretty well

[24:25] together. And and I just don't see any significant

[24:28] impact on staff on.

[24:29] This one OK.

[24:30] I appreciate that.

[24:32] I think most of most of my initial comments were addressed in in some form,

[24:36] so I don't have any additional.

[24:39] Comments any further.

[24:42] Thank you, Commissioner wheel. I do not have any additional comments.

[24:48] Thank you.

[24:49] I have a couple.

[24:52] Questions.

[24:55] As part of the staff report in the background, we,

[24:58] the very last sentence talks about.

[25:02] Why we believe that or why staff believes it's appropriate to consider developing

[25:08] this ordinance and it says at the end particularly.

[25:12] In a state declared drought, would there be an other reason we would

[25:19] use this?

[25:22] For this ordinance, no.

[25:24] OK.

[25:24] It's it's. It's really intended to align with again

[25:27] with state policy.

[25:30] When there's a water conservation alert, we also want to be able to have

[25:34] enforcement abilities, but align also with the with state

[25:37] requirements as well.

[25:41] Maybe I'm being pedantic. When I when I see,

[25:44] particularly in a state declared drought.

[25:51] Why? Why would we use the word particularly

[25:54] just?

[25:54] It was just a choice of words, OK?

[25:56] There's no, there's no intended or implied.

[26:02] Heightened sense of of urgency. Using that word I could have.

[26:06] I could have simply used the word in addition to.

[26:11] Or when or when in estate. OK, declare a. My other question is kind of goes to what,

[26:17] Commissioner?

[26:19] Will saying under the.

[26:23] The water system repairs where we talk about homeowners or development leaks and

[26:30] are we looking for self reporting or are we back to looking at meter usage if we

[26:36] see if somebody in public works sees hey, they used this amount of water and now

[26:43] they're tripling it there.

[26:46] Must be a leak somewhere.

[26:48] That it it could be in in that particular case,

[26:50] if somebody is Bill is is escalating and we're become aware of it,

[26:54] that might be a reason for code enforcement or public Works department to

[26:59] go out and look to see if there was, if there's a water le.

[27:02] That's either that that's associated with a particular property.

[27:08] Does that happen routinely?

[27:11] I can't answer to tell you I can't answer how routinely that OK may or may not

[27:15] happen.

[27:16] I know that in often times you have property owners that have sprinkles

[27:21] sprinklers the the sprinkler head is broken.

[27:26] And and so you'll see a trail of water, you know,

[27:29] leading down the sidewalk or onto somebody onto the grass or whatever.

[27:34] And it's just basically to say, hey, if you have a water leak or we identify a

[27:38] water leak.

[27:39] We want you to try to fix it as soon as you can, but we're not gonna be overly,

[27:43] overly aggressive about it.

[27:48] OK.

[27:48] I'll stop right there.

[27:49] Let me turn to you right. Sure. Hold on.

[27:54] I just have one question and I believe one of my questions kind of piggybacks on

[27:59] yours, Commissioner Gutenberg. Councilman guttenberg.

[28:02] But so I'm going to stay away from that one.

[28:04] I'm going to let you have it. The one that I have though,

[28:07] and you guys could have mentioned this before and I'm sorry if I've I've blanked

[28:11] because we've been talking about this for a very long time, not just tonight,

[28:15] but another meetings but.

[28:18] Um, relative to the 80% that I hear this

[28:21] trigger?

[28:23] Where are we right now?

[28:24] Close to that.

[28:27] I don't have the exact number, OK in my head.

[28:30] I can tell you that that we're we're just under 80%,

[28:34] but I don't have that exact statistic for you.

[28:36] I can.

[28:37] I can certainly provide it to you, OK. And then also just one more kind of

[28:42] piggybacks on that one, not yours.

[28:45] In the last five years.

[28:48] How close have we gotten to that 80% that I I can't.

[28:52] I do not have the answer to that.

[28:54] That was on how to investigate that.

[28:58] You know that that 80% of what I can tell you is that that 80% CAP is really there

[29:04] to you know, we still have another 20%, right.

[29:08] But we also have spikes during the summer periods and so that that's is to allow

[29:14] for a sufficient room extra reserve.

[29:17] If you will so that we don't go over our our state permit requirement which is 1.

[29:24] 234 million gallons per day.

[29:27] It's but every but that getting closer and closer to 80% just reduces that that

[29:33] potential of us going over our state permit.

[29:36] Because what?

[29:38] I know Councilman Gutenberg is about to also talk about is that 10% for a large

[29:44] volume?

[29:46] Commercial.

[29:47] Facilities. And so I know he's about to talk about

[29:50] about kind of segue just a little bit when your usage increases.

[29:56] Is that percentage for them also going to go down?

[30:01] So will they stay at 10% even though the 80% has gotten higher?

[30:07] Because I guess that's what I think.

[30:11] So as the 80% goes up, will there? Will they remain at the 10% or will their

[30:16] percentage drop?

[30:17] To try to, you know, level.

[30:22] They're they're still gonna have.

[30:24] Now I'm going.

[30:24] Ultimately, they would be for large volume user.

[30:28] We're still it would be 10% below whatever it was that they're.

[30:34] They're level. They suspected that 10% would be below

[30:38] what that level was and in the in the prior years.

[30:43] At the same time period that the water is being consumed now. OK, OK.

[30:49] Those are the only questions I had.

[30:52] I I if I I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll take a stab at that.

[30:56] Yeah, I think the distinction you're making is

[30:59] that.

[31:00] In a water conservation plan by a large volume user,

[31:05] the goal is to have them have a plan that reduces their typical bill over a period

[31:11] of time or or meter by 10%.

[31:15] But there's also a portion, I think that says.

[31:19] The town's goal is to reduce overall by 10%.

[31:22] Percent, which is of that permit number and that's.

[31:26] Yeah. I think there's two places where it kind

[31:29] of addresses that.

[31:30] Yeah, yeah, I was speaking to the to what you,

[31:33] the the former.

[31:35] Yeah. In terms of the the business use, yeah.

[31:39] Good, good point. Yeah.

[31:42] All right.

[31:43] Yeah. So I what I'd like to do is.

[31:49] Boy, I've spent a lot of hours with this, so I'd let I'd let I'm.

[31:52] I've been itching to get all this off my chest so.

[31:56] What I'd like to do is so first I'll say you know that I do appreciate the work

[32:00] that was done on this. The amount of work that was done between

[32:04] the the couple of versions. I think it was really worth it.

[32:07] And and there's a lot of good.

[32:08] Features in here.

[32:11] But but there there's one thing in here that really concerns me.

[32:14] And then there's some other things that I just think we just would be benefited by

[32:18] talking about.

[32:19] So let me hit the one that.

[32:22] Really concerns me first.

[32:25] And this is the addition of.

[32:30] Terms and specifically the term data centers, drew my eye for what?

[32:35] For many people I'm sure will be obvious reasons and I think we need to.

[32:39] We need to kind of have a conversation real quick about.

[32:44] How laplata's land use ordinance works and its relation to state code?

[32:51] So in in in section A3 of this draft.

[32:59] It lists, among other things, it has a bullet size list that includes

[33:04] descriptions of what could be large volume users,

[33:08] and one of them is data centers and and.

[33:13] However.

[33:15] In Maryland, land use Article Division One, Title 4,

[33:19] which is that is the Maryland State law that gives laplata as a municipality its

[33:25] authority to govern zoning within the incorporated limits of the town.

[33:33] What is permitted in an industrial light or heavy zone is specifically governed by

[33:41] a.

[33:42] Table it's the permissive zoning table.

[33:46] It's 191-8, and if you're worried about data centers

[33:50] in La Plata, that's the table to look at because it

[33:54] does not in any shape or form.

[33:58] List.

[34:00] Either permitted conditional or as a special exception anywhere in that table.

[34:05] Does it say that you could do that anywhere in the town?

[34:08] So my concern is, is that including a reference.

[34:12] That identifies data centers as a type of large volume user in laplata or anything

[34:18] else in that list, frankly.

[34:20] And I didn't. Yeah.

[34:23] That that it risks creating an implied land use and that and also it it could be

[34:29] used by an applicant that comes in here and says well this table over here says

[34:34] this. But over here it says this.

[34:37] So you know, where can we meet in the middle?

[34:39] Can I do a small data center?

[34:40] Right, this is.

[34:42] Not the way this works at all, and I think that that we we introduce

[34:47] problems by flirting with that kind of language,

[34:50] that that gets outside of that very specific 191-8.

[34:55] So what?

[34:56] What I'm gonna say is like, as soon as you get to the end of that

[35:00] that section, Section 3, I think it just ends and you just delete

[35:04] that entire list because any large volume user first of all,

[35:07] the town already knows who they are because the town.

[35:10] Sees them, the metered all of the meter values.

[35:14] The town manager has, I think, at Council sessions has talked to us

[35:18] about some of them.

[35:18] I mean, he he has the list of them so and the

[35:21] permitted uses are identified elsewhere.

[35:25] So we don't have to.

[35:26] You know, cross that up.

[35:29] So you know that that's my recommendation there.

[35:32] My strong recommendation, I think.

[35:36] For and and Councilman Goodenberg the the the intent was was really just to

[35:40] completely understand where you're coming from.

[35:42] That makes complete sense, I think, when when the subcommittee met, we were,

[35:47] we were trying to create an image so that somebody would understand.

[35:50] You know what our typical large volume users and.

[35:56] I don't think we we considered the fact that. And you're right, we should.

[36:00] We should really align it to those those uses that are in our code.

[36:03] And it was unintentional.

[36:04] But yes, we don't.

[36:06] We staff certainly doesn't win. I don't think that the subcommittee is

[36:10] ever wants to suggest that data centers are permitted to use the talent.

[36:13] Yeah. So I I agree.

[36:15] I I absolutely agree with what you're saying.

[36:17] What you're saying it's a really good idea, but also one thing.

[36:20] What if you wanted to just go one step further and just put the amount of water

[36:25] used by large volume user and say for instance if you know if you're using this

[36:29] much water blah blah blah blah, this is what you would be identified As

[36:33] for a large.

[36:34] Volume user.

[36:35] I think that that is a yeah, that is a good question. I I.

[36:41] Considered a large volume.

[36:47] From memory I believe, and this might be putting you on the spot

[36:52] down, but I believe from the water report days

[36:55] right back many, many months ago when.

[36:59] Mr. Stevens had these discussions with us on

[37:02] water I.

[37:03] I.

[37:03] I believe he has a number that.

[37:05] Defines that already.

[37:06] I don't know if it's in code or if it's in policy,

[37:10] but there was a number I haven't.

[37:12] I can't remember the number off the top of my head,

[37:15] but I remember there was a threshold discuss.

[37:18] That's like your large volume user and it's not a number that it,

[37:22] I mean it sticks out like a sore thumb.

[37:24] It it's not a grey zone kind of thing.

[37:26] It's really clear.

[37:28] Yeah, I think that'd be best if you took out

[37:30] the list and just put that.

[37:33] Clear identifier there. Then any business would know or person

[37:35] would know.

[37:36] Hey, if I'm hitting this market.

[37:37] Mark, I'm a professional user.

[37:39] It might.

[37:40] It might have been that it was a number, like if you're in the top 1% or top,

[37:44] what there was some percentage of I I feel like to whatever it was, yeah.

[37:50] And to.

[37:53] To respond to that, what we might do is just is just

[37:57] completely delete triple I out of there.

[38:01] Yeah, because we've identified in the

[38:03] definitions a large volume user means any nonresidential or mixed-use development

[38:08] that either one consumes an average of 10, 000 gallons per day or more based on the

[38:14] most recent three consecutive building cycles or uses 300,000 gallons or more.

[38:20] In a single building cycle, and I think that defines it.

[38:23] And then we eliminate all the uses on there,

[38:26] and we think that gets us to a happy place. Great. Yep.

[38:32] Yeah, I agree.

[38:34] Yeah, that takes care of it then.

[38:41] All right, you know, so I'll keep walking through these.

[38:44] But you know at the end, maybe, Mr. Dooley. You know, I don't know.

[38:49] I don't want to kind of like stop and kind of take a vote on every single one

[38:53] of these, because there's about 10 of them to go

[38:56] through.

[38:57] Not not that I think many were going to take that long.

[39:01] Did did you have a suggestion or?

[39:05] Here's what I can tell the Commission as a whole is staff has reviewed these the

[39:09] suggestions.

[39:10] I think they align well with the intent of the ordinance.

[39:15] I think they're they're very well thought out and I think they can be easily.

[39:21] Incorporated or modified ordinance incorporated and staff has no objections

[39:26] to any of the suggestions.

[39:30] And I'm happy to kind of just overview him.

[39:33] I can.

[39:34] Kind of go through them quick and and maybe if we need to talk about any of

[39:37] them, I'm happy to do that. If if if there needs to be more

[39:40] discussion.

[39:42] That's what staff sent those out earlier today to to infants, to you,

[39:46] and provided the hard copy.

[39:47] So we could talk about it effectively.

[39:51] So before you before you do that, Councilman Gutenberg,

[39:55] let me let me turn to the Commissioners and 1st ask,

[39:58] did everyone have an opportunity to review.

[40:03] Councilman guttenberg's. Yes, yes.

[40:08] Are there any specific questions or concerns?

[40:13] With Councilman Gutenberg's suggestions.

[40:18] Commissioner Miller, just out of curiosity,

[40:21] where did the three days comes from for the three six consecutive days for the

[40:26] 90%?

[40:27] Yeah. So actually, so there's there's probably two or three

[40:31] of them anyway that I'd like to talk about probably with with staff because

[40:35] you know that they are my view of a way of a solution.

[40:38] But you know I'm not.

[40:40] I'm not opposed to other solutions.

[40:44] You know those kinds of things so.

[40:46] That one is if we want to just go right to that one, that was the.

[40:52] Which one was that?

[40:54] Commissioner Miller.

[40:56] Four. Yeah, so OK.

[40:59] So yeah, and this actually really.

[41:03] Commissioner Hudnell as well was was talking about this in her question.

[41:06] So the the thing that that I was concerned about is exactly what

[41:12] Commissioner Hudnell said, which is how close are we and the way the

[41:18] wording in the draft.

[41:22] Zoning.

[41:23] Text is that.

[41:27] The the concern is, is that we would be potentially.

[41:31] Close to being in a perpetual state of this.

[41:36] Because of a lack of a water agreement and the amount of development that we've

[41:41] had in the town.

[41:44] And and we're going to have to reconcile that and so.

[41:50] I don't know what staff's view of that is.

[41:53] But it really goes to the question of, you know, in forecasting by by staff,

[41:58] you know, are we, do we need to accommodate the reality

[42:02] that we're going to be in for some unknown period of time?

[42:09] You know, I I guess that's yeah, that's that's the totality of that

[42:12] question.

[42:15] And as part of our our regular, if you'll recall from the Apfo for water

[42:19] that we did in sewer, we have that we we do a a a BI yearly.

[42:24] Update on our water and on our water and sewer capacity.

[42:28] And I think that we just have to we have to use those numbers.

[42:34] And I think that it's hard to say at this point, but because we don't have water,

[42:38] we don't have a water agreement. We don't have much water.

[42:41] Ultimately we'll get.

[42:44] And I think Councilman Guttenberg's points well taken is that it's hard to.

[42:48] It's hard to know how long this will be.

[42:50] I think that well, I think you know, sitting here a year from now, I think.

[42:54] Maybe have a better idea because we should have a,

[42:57] hopefully a water agreement in place, but we we we should assume the worst case

[43:02] scenario because that's the the most sound because we don't have anything in

[43:07] place that tells us that we're going to have adequate water.

[43:12] Anytime soon.

[43:15] So yes, I think we are going to make that basic

[43:18] assumption that we're this is going to be a perpetual state.

[43:23] And the.

[43:25] We're trying to dig ourselves out of it.

[43:28] So so maybe with this one it is the the the question is really you know this is

[43:35] the suggested language however.

[43:38] Staff should look at the 90% that's there and and the number of consecutive days.

[43:45] And give us that back when we come back next month as like a formal

[43:50] recommendation based on some assessment of of where we are, what what,

[43:55] what makes sense there.

[43:57] Leave it at 80% consecutive days is different or you know because I know

[44:03] there's there's complexity in the interplay with the with the permit,

[44:08] because there's there's a overall limit in monthly draw,

[44:13] but there's also peak day limits, I think. And I think that is a complex.

[44:18] That is hard for us to appreciate and figure out how to probably get in into

[44:23] code in a way that makes sense.

[44:26] Without staff input.

[44:28] Yeah, that that's something we can.

[44:30] We can talk to public works about and see what they would recommend. Yeah,

[44:34] thank you.

[44:35] Yeah. OK.

[44:38] Umm.

[44:40] Another one that I thought would be good to to have a conversation about is.

[44:51] #10 actually.

[44:55] So with standards for commercial car washes with high efficiency recycling

[45:01] systems, so we have we have at least one

[45:04] potentially more but but the the one that's easy to think about it is the the

[45:10] newest one that that was built.

[45:14] Right, right on 301. The Eco wash, right.

[45:17] I think is what it's called.

[45:19] Or splash. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[45:21] Umm.

[45:23] That that is and you can look stuff up online about that that is using all of

[45:26] the you know the the most high efficiency kind of systems they have today.

[45:30] They're available and things like that, and,

[45:33] but in in a water emergency where we have eliminated vehicle washing at residences

[45:38] in in driveways and things like that.

[45:42] The high efficiency car wash having to do a 10% reduction plan when we are there

[45:47] actually it in my view part of the solution because you're you're having

[45:51] people go away from.

[45:54] Home washing and now they're doing it in a way that consumes, you know,

[45:59] 7080% less water potentially, but we need them to limit themselves

[46:04] again as a high volume user with a plan to reduce by 10%.

[46:09] And I wonder if we what I really believe is that, that,

[46:13] that technology and that service is really offsetting more water than the

[46:18] individual reduction plan would indicate and very likely they could see.

[46:23] A surge in water consumption as an individual entity.

[46:30] But that but that shouldn't be likely viewed as a bad thing because of what its

[46:35] offsetting potentially.

[46:39] And so that that's that's what my intent there is is to recommend language that

[46:44] would allow for that. And so so this would be an area where you

[46:48] know it may be a thing you know if you look at it from that context.

[46:54] And and the draft language if it needed to be modified further,

[46:57] even based on that I'm I'm definitely open to it based on staff input.

[47:01] Yeah, that that makes great sense to me. I think making a recognition in a high

[47:07] efficiencies car wash is not is.

[47:10] Is to make it clear that it doesn't require the 10% or doesn't require a plan.

[47:17] Fundamentally that we can work that we can.

[47:23] We can massage it accordingly to reflect that.

[47:26] Great. Thank you.

[47:27] And then another area that I thought would be really good to talk about with

[47:34] you is the.

[47:36] The Zoning Board of Appeals and.

[47:40] How that interplay is with what they do. Their charter essentially based in code,

[47:48] is to handle zoning.

[47:53] Arbitration isn't the right word, but but to consider zoning.

[47:58] Rule approvals and so this is.

[48:00] This is different in that we're not asking them to review the zoning code in

[48:06] context of what's happening with a a hardship request.

[48:10] We're asking them to look at the administrative procedures that the town

[48:15] manager used in his determination that they're asking for relief from.

[48:22] And is this written in a way, or is their companions documentation that

[48:27] might be needed in order for them to perform in that function?

[48:35] What Staffs and what staff's intent was was that they would look at?

[48:39] They would look at the entire administrative record based on what the

[48:43] the town manager's decision was, but they're fundamentally going bad to.

[48:49] The standards that the town manager is is looking at,

[48:53] so those are identified in section.

[48:57] M2B I, I-12 and three.

[49:02] Those are fundamentally the findings that are being made.

[49:05] OK, that was for the the board to just look

[49:08] at that there, they shouldn't be looking at other stuff

[49:11] for a variance, it's not.

[49:12] I agree with it.

[49:13] Not applicable.

[49:14] And that was really the intent, OK, of of what we wrote or we I wrote.

[49:19] I will tell you that I I remembered and I have section L2.

[49:23] It should be M2, right? OK, that one. OK. And then and then the the other thing

[49:28] related to that is you provided that companion document about state water

[49:33] emergencies.

[49:34] And that that made me go, OK, so.

[49:38] The the our Zoning Board of Appeals and and a water hardship is only an exception

[49:44] if it was granted to the town's ordinance on water restrictions.

[49:49] It and it would have no ability to supersede what what state mandates were

[49:55] put in place.

[49:56] And we should be really clear about that.

[49:57] That's correct. Yes. OK.

[49:59] Yes, that's correct.

[50:01] All right.

[50:04] The the other one that probably you know, again I don't go through every single one

[50:09] of them, but the other one I thought would be good

[50:12] to talk about though is.

[50:15] The term common sense.

[50:17] And so when I looked at that and and I read it,

[50:19] I kept reading it over and over again, and I'm going, OK.

[50:21] Where's the common sense part of this? If thinking like I'm an applicant or

[50:25] somebody wanting to navigate this?

[50:28] And I like the wording and I, and I think I understand the intent,

[50:33] but it it went from it's a common sense approach right into here's the the fees

[50:39] and things that are happening that if you don't comply, this is what it is.

[50:44] And so I think we.

[50:47] I believe the intent of the term common sense I I I often use the term like like

[50:53] I I don't. My personal view is I would like to not

[50:56] see the town be heavy-handed in in anything.

[50:59] It's enforcing right where it's just my way or the highway, right?

[51:04] Or I shouldn't say it that way it it?

[51:06] It shouldn't be.

[51:07] It shouldn't be like really.

[51:09] Yeah, it should. Yeah, it shouldn't.

[51:11] It shouldn't be like on first contact.

[51:13] It's like, wow.

[51:14] I got the you know, the full force of this ordinance.

[51:18] So I think that.

[51:21] The language that I proposed in here basically gives a a first notice.

[51:29] With 48 hours to resolve that notice with no fine.

[51:33] And so to me, that is the linkage to this is common

[51:36] sense or not being heavy-handed.

[51:38] This is this is, you know, the town understanding that not every

[51:41] resident is gonna have having read every new posted ordinance.

[51:46] You know that that comes out and and so this is a way you know for, you know,

[51:51] attention to be brought to it and and people can comply in a relatively easy

[51:56] way.

[51:56] But it's still timely, so it accommodates the need.

[52:00] Just one quick suggestion where you have suggested for the amendment I I would

[52:04] suggest taking out that first sentence where it just says a common sense

[52:09] education first approach.

[52:11] Shall be taken to the enforcement of this article.

[52:13] I would just take that out and just.

[52:15] Run into it and say for a first observation, observe violation.

[52:20] The town challenges run into it.

[52:22] Just take common sense straight out of it, because somebody could say, well,

[52:27] this doesn't sound like common sense to me.

[52:29] It could be somebody else.

[52:31] Your common sense could be different from mine, yeah.

[52:33] So I think taking that whole sentence out and just running into what the violation

[52:38] triggers would be.

[52:40] And their infractions what they involve.

[52:43] Yeah, I agree with that.

[52:50] Because that that still retains the element of. It's not.

[52:54] It doesn't hit you right away.

[52:56] It it it, it kind of eases you into it? Yeah.

[53:00] I should huddle.

[53:01] Can you repeat what you your suggestion?

[53:04] My suggestion for the ZTE amended language would be to delete the first

[53:09] sentence where it says a common sense education first approach shall be taken

[53:14] in the enforcement of this article. To delete that,

[53:18] just start the overall amendment with first or a first observed violation and

[53:24] then Contin.

[53:32] And and then the. I'll let you finish writing.

[53:35] I'm sorry, Mr. Dooley.

[53:38] This last one, I promise.

[53:39] So the last one just to say it out loud, right is the.

[53:44] The plan for.

[53:50] The timeline for commercial corrective plans,

[53:53] so it wasn't clear in the draft the commercial,

[53:56] the the corrective plans for the large volume users.

[53:59] I'm sorry. Yeah. So it it talks about.

[54:04] The in the draft, it talks about the amount of hang on.

[54:08] I'll go right to it and read it.

[54:12] It doesn't have a clear deadline for when that that reduction plan submission.

[54:18] Flows. I took this one right out of the out of

[54:21] the state language.

[54:22] Yeah, but yeah, I. But it's certainly fine to to.

[54:28] Provide some boundaries around that, sure.

[54:34] That Commission's direction.

[54:38] Somebody wants to submit a except for water conservation plan. You know,

[54:43] within within, I think within 30 days it's very

[54:45] reasonable.

[54:46] Yeah. OK.

[54:52] One little suggestion to that amendment, if you don't mind, is replacing it.

[54:57] Sounds trivial, but yeah, I used to be a journalist.

[55:01] Sorry, taking if and removing if and putting

[55:05] when.

[55:07] When a designated large volume user fails to meet their required water.

[55:19] Journalism.

[55:33] So I think.

[55:36] You know my, my, my personal view is, is that I'm satisfied, Mr. Dooley,

[55:41] that if if we want to say or if if you need a motion,

[55:45] let us know that that we would use these recommendations as provided with the

[55:51] notes that we know you took here and.

[55:54] You have this meeting to review and so that to me I think would allow us to stay

[55:59] on track with the timeline that you gave us.

[56:02] Which I think is great because if we if we have a open, excuse me,

[56:06] if we have a public meeting on this amendment in October that would still

[56:12] allow it to go to the Council. I I assume the the idea is,

[56:16] is to probably get this in place.

[56:18] By the end of the year. Oh, absolutely.

[56:22] I would.

[56:23] I'd want to communicate with the town manager.

[56:26] I think it would be his intent to bring it to the Council as soon as possible.

[56:30] Possibly.

[56:31] Later on October. Great. OK.

[56:36] We we I think we we're on the same page. We wanna bring this forward and yeah and

[56:40] really kind of finish finish this good work that we've been doing great.

[56:48] Thank you, Councilman Bloomberg.

[56:50] Are there any additional thoughts, comments, questions, Commissioner Miller?

[56:55] As yeah, well, first, I'm not sure if it was mentioned.

[57:01] So we're very sort of specified on prescription.

[57:09] Oh, I'm trying to kind of reconcile the the

[57:11] common sense and the partnership. I know we just removed that word,

[57:16] but what would an example of cure?

[57:18] Be for the 4048 hours for like an individual or an entity.

[57:25] Umm.

[57:26] What might might occur or response, or a sure mitigation?

[57:31] Yeah. So, so the way I read it is if code

[57:34] enforcement was going through a neighborhood that where an odd number was

[57:39] watering on an even number at a residential house,

[57:43] the code enforcement officer could stop and leave a notice.

[57:47] A first notice that they have 48 hours to.

[57:52] Reconcile setting up their sprinkler.

[57:53] So it's not going on the odd days or the off days?

[57:57] From from where it's supposed to be that then that notice would have been served

[58:02] if the if now three days later code enforcement goes by the same house to

[58:06] check the sprinklers are going off on the incorrect day, then there's your there.

[58:12] That that's where the the next.

[58:14] Notice starts the fines.

[58:15] That's the the cure period is fixing it before you comes back.

[58:19] Yeah, that makes sense.

[58:21] I was trying to think like you're not going to be.

[58:24] That you're going to stop washing your car.

[58:27] And you won't be washing your car, but.

[58:30] You would cure by not washing the car, but potentially three days a later.

[58:33] You're washing it again.

[58:34] But that first violation, you got things?

[58:36] So yeah, I I think in that example the first time

[58:39] during a single event, water emergency, whatever the duration of time is if that

[58:44] if that water alert is declared and and you and at the beginning of it you get a

[58:49] notice because code enforcement went by and.

[58:52] Saw you washing your car in your driveway. You get the notice.

[58:54] If two months later, we're still in that declared water

[58:58] emergency code enforcement goes by and you're washing your car again,

[59:02] that's not another first notice.

[59:04] You're still in the same declared emergency. I would assume that that would,

[59:08] that would incur the fine.

[59:11] Yeah. How might the common sense partnership

[59:14] relationship?

[59:17] Come into factor.

[59:17] If that's the case, we're like, yeah, I I interpret common sense to mean not be

[59:23] heavy-handed. And I think with with what Commissioner

[59:27] Hudnall suggested is remove that, but keep the feature of not being

[59:32] heavy-handed, heavy hand heavy-handed in in my

[59:35] terminology means you're getting.

[59:37] Warnings, right?

[59:38] Like there's a lot of code that doesn't do that in other places, so.

[59:43] That that is. I assume what what I I took it to mean

[59:47] from from what the the subcommittee did and I agree with it too frankly.

[59:51] Yeah, I think that that, Commissioner Miller that.

[59:57] By removing that first line it it provides more certainty and consistency

[1:00:03] in terms of what that intent was in terms of common sense.

[1:00:07] So I think that sets us up for a much more.

[1:00:12] Usable.

[1:00:13] Ordinance for this for this section, because we have we we know what the

[1:00:18] standards are gonna be and what to expect or what the an owner might expect.

[1:00:23] If there's a code enforcement violation, OK, it's laid out very, very simply.

[1:00:28] Yeah, I think the potential surge of the car

[1:00:32] wash, that was a point that I didn't.

[1:00:37] Think of and. I think that's a a great point.

[1:00:39] Like they would have more customers and what would they like?

[1:00:42] I'm trying to run through that scenario.

[1:00:43] Would they like if it's automated?

[1:00:46] Completely hands off. Are they stopping?

[1:00:49] And are they stopping cars from going through and say we are cutting off?

[1:00:52] We're like, you know, 10 cars an hour or something.

[1:00:54] They would have to.

[1:00:55] It's on them to figure it out.

[1:00:57] That that's what I assumed.

[1:00:58] I assumed if if I have if I'm have have a a a code that tells me I or you know a

[1:01:03] local ordinance that tells me I have to lower by 10%.

[1:01:06] I'm I'm gonna have to have 10% fewer cars go through than I did the.

[1:01:10] Last month, with anything else that you need to be

[1:01:13] compliant with, yeah. Fundamentally, it's fundamentally if if if I was trying

[1:01:17] to enforce this, I would look to the to the owner to

[1:01:20] identify how they want to mitigate it.

[1:01:23] I don't think staff really cares as long as we're getting the.

[1:01:26] 10% reduction plan.

[1:01:28] Yeah, and they can decide where how to run

[1:01:31] their business rather than trying to dictate something that I have no idea

[1:01:36] what I'm talking about.

[1:01:37] And we've left the discretion out.

[1:01:40] I mean, there's there's pathways to for that.

[1:01:43] Common sense, yeah.

[1:01:44] Well, yeah. So to me though, if if they have right now if that

[1:01:48] business has 100 cars a day that come through.

[1:01:51] When you tell a town with 11, 000 residents,

[1:01:54] you can't wash your car in your driveway.

[1:01:57] They could triple or quadruple their business, right?

[1:02:01] And so there's no way they're going to reduce by 10% the volume of use in the

[1:02:06] totality of their bill.

[1:02:09] So I I don't know how we but but the offset in that number of people if they

[1:02:14] were gonna wash their car in their driveway.

[1:02:17] But now they're gonna do it here with 80% less water.

[1:02:22] The the overall offset benefit to the town is achieved by way more than 10%.

[1:02:29] So it it that that's why I think we have to accommodate that in this in this

[1:02:34] because all we're doing is basically hurting a local business and telling them

[1:02:39] to go wash their car just outside the town.

[1:02:42] And I don't think that's.

[1:02:43] I mean, that's not what we want to do.

[1:02:45] You know if if if it were I I think it's just sort of the easiest thing to do

[1:02:50] would just go.

[1:02:51] They're part of the solution.

[1:02:53] There that is not part of the problem.

[1:02:56] And and we're actually making the problem worse,

[1:02:59] or other problems worse by by not acknowledging that if we still wanted to

[1:03:04] see a 10% reduction in water use, maybe that's an example of a single use

[1:03:09] case, large volume user where you say your per

[1:03:12] vehicle water plan.

[1:03:14] Needs to lower by 10%.

[1:03:17] I don't know the technology well enough to know if they can tune it that way.

[1:03:22] Maybe they can, but.

[1:03:25] And that's why I think it's beneficial to let down the in terms of how they want to

[1:03:31] achieve that. But it's but but right now. But but if you're going to do it at at at

[1:03:36] 10% of their total volume, I say it's unachievable. We would have.

[1:03:40] To we would have to say in code that there's a special exception for that type

[1:03:46] of business where it's per unit water volume, not per.

[1:03:50] Business entity.

[1:03:51] You see what I'm saying?

[1:03:52] Yeah, right. Right.

[1:03:55] Yeah. And I I don't know anything about car

[1:03:58] wash to know what that what that volume could be reduced to and still be able to

[1:04:04] link cars.

[1:04:05] Yeah. So my my assumption is and I I did a

[1:04:07] little a little bit of reading on the Internet.

[1:04:09] So you know I'm no, I'm no car wash engineer, but the the.

[1:04:16] Not since I was a teenager.

[1:04:17] But the the what?

[1:04:19] What I understand is like those things I believe are optimized for the lowest

[1:04:24] possible water usage they can.

[1:04:26] Have and and achieve a result that that that that cleans the vehicle that does

[1:04:30] the things that they say they're gonna do when you when you buy a car wash for them.

[1:04:35] Yes, yes.

[1:04:36] And so when in in that example, I think probably the opportunities for

[1:04:40] them to optimize further, they're already doing that to to to

[1:04:44] maximize their their their business opportunities.

[1:04:48] So because they're buying municipal water, just like we are.

[1:04:52] At our homes, right and so.

[1:04:55] I'm of the mind that they.

[1:04:57] There's probably just should just be an exception for that business type in some

[1:05:03] way, and that's what I have on my notes is OK

[1:05:06] is to.

[1:05:08] That if it's if it's a.

[1:05:11] If it's a high volume, excuse me. It's a high efficiency.

[1:05:15] High efficiency. Yeah. Thank you.

[1:05:17] Car wash they can demonstrate document that it is that they're exempt from from

[1:05:23] that provision.

[1:05:24] Yeah, so that separates them out because I

[1:05:25] agree that makes that makes all the sense in the world.

[1:05:28] And I agree that just from a purely from a, from an economic standpoint,

[1:05:33] they're probably not going to want to use more water than they have to. Yeah, yeah.

[1:05:41] So I have a couple of concerns.

[1:05:46] Maybe not. Maybe not so much concerns with thoughts.

[1:05:49] The the first thought I have as with the apfoi think.

[1:05:54] This part, and because it is a part of the APFO,

[1:05:58] needs to be dynamic. We're we're kind of.

[1:06:04] Doing this.

[1:06:07] Blindly, I think we, you know, there's a lot of effort and expertise

[1:06:11] that's gone into this, but I think.

[1:06:15] There's also a lot of ambiguity in some of the language.

[1:06:20] I'm concerned about the whole self-compliance thing,

[1:06:23] and maybe that's not what we're setting up, but I think pretty much we are.

[1:06:28] And I'm also concerned about potentially creating a monopoly for the car wash we

[1:06:34] have.

[1:06:36] One new car wash in the town that could that could probably take on this.

[1:06:44] Recycling and all of that I'm concerned about creating monopoly, or,

[1:06:49] as Councilman Guttenberg alluded to, we don't want people to go outside of the

[1:06:54] town. But certainly if the if the wait is long.

[1:06:59] I'm not gonna sit in that line.

[1:07:00] Gas prices are high, so I'm gonna go somewhere else where

[1:07:04] there isn't this.

[1:07:05] So I'm concerned there are several things that I'm concerned about,

[1:07:10] not to the degree where I say don't let's move forward,

[1:07:13] but I think there's still a lot of things that need to be flushed out.

[1:07:18] Can they be flushed out by October 6?

[1:07:21] Maybe, maybe not. But I think also having.

[1:07:24] A public hearing.

[1:07:27] May help flush some of these things out.

[1:07:30] So that's just my two cents and and I'll pause right there.

[1:07:35] And I ask about the self compliance.

[1:07:37] What part is that? I'd like to talk about that.

[1:07:40] Well, even homeowners, if if residential, residential or business,

[1:07:44] I mean code enforcement can only be so many places.

[1:07:49] At a.

[1:07:50] At a time and that will put a strain on our resources.

[1:07:51] So we're assuming a lot the car wash is going to do the right thing.

[1:07:56] We're assuming everybody's going to do the right thing.

[1:07:59] And some will and some won't.

[1:08:03] How you know that?

[1:08:04] There's no we don't have the. When I say we the town does not have the

[1:08:09] bandwidth to police it all.

[1:08:11] I'm not.

[1:08:11] And I'm not sure that's a a good use of resources either.

[1:08:17] So that's so then you're expecting people to do the right thing?

[1:08:23] My my my thought is is on the on the on the commercial entities.

[1:08:29] They if they're classified as a a large volume user,

[1:08:33] they they they are known to the town and the town manager believes that there's

[1:08:39] not that many of them, that there are a number of them.

[1:08:43] But if if staff could not handle interacting with the number of.

[1:08:51] Plans that they would have to receive.

[1:08:53] Then I don't think they would have suggested, isn't that?

[1:08:55] Is that right?

[1:08:56] I think that's probably fair statement. OK.

[1:08:59] I mean, you know, it's any any new ordinance that we've had

[1:09:02] this similar discussions before?

[1:09:05] Ordinances are living, breathing documents,

[1:09:08] and if something's not working or it's problematic,

[1:09:11] we're going to bring it back to you and and ultimately to the Council to amend it

[1:09:16] so that it it is so it doesn't work the way we want it to.

[1:09:22] It's it's difficult.

[1:09:24] It it's really, really difficult to write an ordinance.

[1:09:28] You you to capture 100% of everything you want it to be.

[1:09:32] You generally the kind of the rule of thumb is you try to capture.

[1:09:38] 80 to 8080 percent, 85% of what you expect will happen,

[1:09:42] and to have some reasonable suggestions in the ordinance and how you sort of deal

[1:09:48] with some of the Gray area in there but you.

[1:09:52] You try to create an ordinance that effectively through collective reasoning.

[1:09:59] You think has will work, and if there's adjustments to it,

[1:10:03] no harm no foul.

[1:10:04] We just address it and we address it on a timely matter.

[1:10:10] Can I ask? Did did the subcommittee or or in your

[1:10:14] experience, Commissioner? Well did, did you discuss residential?

[1:10:20] Issues related to.

[1:10:22] To you know, self compliance and that kind of stuff

[1:10:24] was that part of the discussion?

[1:10:26] I believe we did touch on that and the one thing that I think we kind of talked

[1:10:32] about relating to that was I think for a lot of ordinances we kind of rely on

[1:10:38] self-compliance, right?

[1:10:40] We kind of rely on people to do the right thing and if it becomes an issue then.

[1:10:47] Code enforcement gets involved or you know, so I think.

[1:10:50] The intention behind that I don't.

[1:10:53] I don't know how to phrase this other than kind of say it's it's understood

[1:10:58] that it's not going to be enforceable to every single infraction. You know,

[1:11:04] it's just it's not possible.

[1:11:06] It's not possible for code enforcement to get to literally all of you know it.

[1:11:11] So I I think it just kind of goes hand in hand with the nature of.

[1:11:15] Of what it is, if that makes sense.

[1:11:18] It does.

[1:11:19] It does to me in in the following way. I the what what I imagine the way this

[1:11:24] would work and and I I don't want to speak for the town manager right,

[1:11:29] but just my own imagination of how this this plays out is and and and and I.

[1:11:34] Base this on the way this is written right?

[1:11:37] So the town manager is overseeing like how we get things. Keep keep it under.

[1:11:43] The maximum, and so he's largely going towards the

[1:11:46] high volume users.

[1:11:49] First, because that's where if you're going to

[1:11:52] expend staff hours, that's where you're going to get the most

[1:11:55] result for the effort that you put into it.

[1:11:59] Now if that doesn't achieve the full result and there's still concern the town

[1:12:04] manager has the ability operationally, just like he can have discussions with

[1:12:09] the Police Department based on crime reports,

[1:12:12] he can have discussions with code enforcement and say, look,

[1:12:17] if you were going to spend your, your.

[1:12:19] Day today on business signage issues.

[1:12:21] Forget about it for the next month. I want you to focus on water.

[1:12:26] Outdoor water usage with with sprinklers and so and I think in that way it's not a

[1:12:31] because I think the thing people worry about when we talk about residential

[1:12:35] compliance is that we're like asking people to call in their neighbors and

[1:12:39] have that kind of stuff. And I.

[1:12:41] Think that's back to the common sense kind of piece of this or that not being

[1:12:45] heavy-handed is that is that?

[1:12:48] The town.

[1:12:49] Will operationally manage this and focus the resources that they have in a way

[1:12:54] that makes sense for the whatever state we're in.

[1:12:57] I also do think that.

[1:13:02] People, when you're in in a water emergency and

[1:13:06] when those things are noticed, people want to help out with that.

[1:13:10] You know where where we are all in this together.

[1:13:13] And I know you know when we get when we get notices.

[1:13:15] I've lived other places where where you you do see this happen sometimes.

[1:13:19] And and I and I think people realize it and they don't.

[1:13:22] They don't just go well, what are they going to do?

[1:13:24] I'm just going to go wash my car anyway.

[1:13:26] I mean, I think mostly people are are trying to

[1:13:28] like work together on these kinds of things.

[1:13:30] And and they're certainly they agree with that and there's certainly an educational

[1:13:34] component too.

[1:13:35] So that if we if we have these alerts, there's a ways of of getting the word out

[1:13:41] through you know, through our town newsletter website.

[1:13:46] Educational announcements, that sort of thing.

[1:13:50] Yeah, go ahead.

[1:13:53] Again, we're we're trying to write this.

[1:13:55] We're we're writing this to sort of as much as possible,

[1:13:59] align ourselves with with the state's temperament in terms of the.

[1:14:04] In terms of of what the what they have for water conservation work and so you'll

[1:14:10] read that the state language is not it's it's not really.

[1:14:17] I don't think it's very handed.

[1:14:19] It doesn't say that we're going to come get you and we're, you know,

[1:14:23] we're going to put cameras on everyone's property to make sure that they're not

[1:14:27] using more water than they have to.

[1:14:30] There's there's a certain amount of, you know, as Councilman Guttenberg said,

[1:14:34] there's there's a.

[1:14:36] You know, it's a common.

[1:14:38] It's a common community effort to preserve resources and I think education

[1:14:44] becomes a huge part of that.

[1:14:48] When you have a, when you have a draught alert.

[1:14:50] I've lived in.

[1:14:54] Where I used to live, droughts were very common and there is a

[1:14:57] result we were all I was always getting education material to do,

[1:15:01] simple little things that could be done to help save water.

[1:15:05] Because it's important for people to know that they save a little bit of water just

[1:15:09] themselves.

[1:15:09] It's probably insignificant, but when you start adding that up or the

[1:15:13] course, the entire community makes a huge

[1:15:16] difference. And I think that's really kind of the

[1:15:19] message that that this ordinance is intending to try to address is do your

[1:15:23] part.

[1:15:26] I don't think.

[1:15:27] I don't think that we'd be able to excuse me, police, everyone.

[1:15:31] I think that you know self compliance, it is going to be a hard thing to do.

[1:15:36] I know the last time we had a meeting, Commissioner Ford,

[1:15:39] I think it was like 2 meetings ago. Commissioner Ford mentioned something

[1:15:43] about having like a little dial or something on the website that denoted

[1:15:48] kind of where we were with regards to our water.

[1:15:50] Do you remember that?

[1:15:52] Not off the top of my head.

[1:15:54] But I believe he said. He said that.

[1:15:55] Yeah, he.

[1:15:56] I know, he said.

[1:15:57] I remember him saying that and my point for saying that is because.

[1:16:03] It gets more real when someone has something in front of them that's

[1:16:07] tangible. You know something that they can see it

[1:16:10] it right now, you know, everything is very abstract, you know.

[1:16:14] And so it's going to take time. Everything that we're trying to put in

[1:16:19] place, these are.

[1:16:20] You know things that is not just our town, but also state level.

[1:16:23] So we're trying to get these put into place,

[1:16:26] but self-compliance is going to be an issue and you know,

[1:16:29] I'm pretty sure we're all aware, yeah.

[1:16:32] This this meeting was super helpful for me, missing the last one.

[1:16:37] We're putting up.

[1:16:38] I mean, correct me if the analogy is wrong,

[1:16:40] but it's a speed limit sign, right?

[1:16:42] Not everyone's going to.

[1:16:43] Some people are going to speed, but just having the sign is going to

[1:16:46] reduce it.

[1:16:46] Not everyone's going to get caught, but that's just how I see it,

[1:16:50] and it's a is that.

[1:16:52] A great way to characterize it or not.

[1:16:55] Well, I think it's, yeah, it's it becomes like I was saying earlier,

[1:17:00] it's it's an educational thing, OK, to make people aware and what you're

[1:17:04] describing that the the Commissioner for had had said it makes sense to me and I

[1:17:09] think that's, you know, there's there's lots of.

[1:17:12] Different ways to educate the community and I think that becomes another another

[1:17:18] option to add to collective.

[1:17:21] Educating the community where we're at.

[1:17:25] Don't forget those speed cameras, Commissioner. Golf.

[1:17:30] Yeah. Commissioner Miller, Mr. Dooley wouldn't give you give you,

[1:17:33] give you the the naked compliment, but I'll say it was a great analogy

[1:17:37] because that's the only way it makes sense.

[1:17:40] I like it.

[1:17:40] Yeah, that was a great one.

[1:17:40] Specific, but we're.

[1:17:45] So my we're supporting the partnership of the community.

[1:17:50] I I didn't have any other comments except for if we're kind of finished with the

[1:17:55] specifics you mentioned.

[1:17:57] So the plan could potentially be have a public hearing on October 6th and then

[1:18:04] you were looking to push sometime late in October.

[1:18:08] Was there an intermediate point where the Commission?

[1:18:14] Whether or not there is significant public comments or adjustments,

[1:18:19] would we then need to revisit or is it possible to have just a public comment

[1:18:24] and then?

[1:18:26] Push. There's a number six.

[1:18:28] Yep, using the word push is probably more than

[1:18:31] I'm trying to describe.

[1:18:33] Sure. We're just trying.

[1:18:34] Just trying to efficiently process it through the town.

[1:18:37] The Commission can hold this as long as it wants to,

[1:18:40] and we can have a public hearing if we see that there's.

[1:18:44] We get a lot of comments on it or suggestions.

[1:18:46] Hey, maybe we wanna hold back on it.

[1:18:48] Maybe we wanna continue the public hearing, do some more refinement.

[1:18:52] We wanna, you know, staff and the Commission wants to make

[1:18:55] sure that we have an ordinance that's right for that's a good fit for the

[1:18:59] community.

[1:19:00] So there's no we don't have to rush anything.

[1:19:02] I'm just simply suggesting that if we feel that we've, we've the Commission,

[1:19:08] feels that that.

[1:19:10] The draft ordinance has a eventually.

[1:19:14] Becomes adopted. Is is adequate?

[1:19:17] There's we can move it forward. Here's a path.

[1:19:20] Do that, but it doesn't by any stretch of

[1:19:23] imagination means that you have to hold a public hearing on October six,

[1:19:27] and you have to make a decision at that time.

[1:19:29] Let's see what happens.

[1:19:31] I'm going to get comments back and we feel that we can't.

[1:19:36] If there's more work to be done, then that's kind of an over process.

[1:19:45] Are there any additional?

[1:19:48] Comments. I have some.

[1:19:51] I feel like I'm going to be on the island by myself.

[1:19:54] I I think in light of what everybody said and I respect what everybody said and I

[1:19:59] think there were some valid points.

[1:20:02] I just.

[1:20:03] I am grappling with this whole notion of, oh, this is educational.

[1:20:08] Well, let's do apsa.

[1:20:09] I mean, we don't need an ordinance.

[1:20:11] For education, if it's intended to be.

[1:20:16] A.

[1:20:17] A code that we will ensure enforce. Then I think we need to make sure that

[1:20:22] that is what it is.

[1:20:26] This language around.

[1:20:29] Common sense and.

[1:20:32] And things like that.

[1:20:34] That is so ambiguous and and I think we all agree with that.

[1:20:39] I'm just concerned about how we're.

[1:20:46] How we're framing this?

[1:20:50] Educating folks about this ordinance is important.

[1:20:56] I think that happens from my perspective. Once you have the ordinance before it

[1:21:02] goes into effect, you do start to educate the community.

[1:21:06] This is coming on board.

[1:21:07] This is what the expectation is.

[1:21:09] Here's how you play a role in ensuring that this water conservation ordinance is.

[1:21:20] Appropriately applied.

[1:21:23] That is where I see the education at.

[1:21:25] Once the ordinance goes into effect, it ceases to be education.

[1:21:29] It goes to enforcement, and it's about ensuring that the

[1:21:33] ordinance is doing what it's intended to do.

[1:21:37] That that's the the background I come from.

[1:21:39] That's the perspective that I've I've I have.

[1:21:46] Just leave it at that.

[1:21:48] I.

[1:21:48] I actually really agree with what you just said.

[1:21:51] I.

[1:21:51] I mean the, the, the, the thing that I think will happen it

[1:21:56] like I think our scope on the Planning Commission is focused on the the zoning

[1:22:02] text amendment right and that is not a place where you build a program for

[1:22:07] education and do the things that you.

[1:22:10] Talking about and and I think is that.

[1:22:14] Like, where can we scratch that?

[1:22:16] Part of this itch messed their Dooley like is is that.

[1:22:19] Is that something that staff can bring along with this to the Council?

[1:22:23] Because I can.

[1:22:24] I I already know that there are members of the Community who who feel that that

[1:22:30] the, the, the level of of.

[1:22:34] Water conservation that is contained in this is not even close to what they think

[1:22:39] we should be doing as a town. I think that's what Commissioner Banks is

[1:22:44] saying.

[1:22:45] Is that OK?

[1:22:46] So what are we doing in the meantime to educate and and and and get get folks

[1:22:52] socialized with a new way of thinking about our water just in general?

[1:22:58] Mr. Dooley, thank you. And and. Oh, I'm sorry. And and just to add to that.

[1:23:03] Thank you, Councilman Gutenberg, for to add to that and I think I

[1:23:07] mentioned this a meeting so ago.

[1:23:10] This almost may seem punitive to people. People are aware.

[1:23:15] Of the town's water situation, and now we're putting a lot of onus on on

[1:23:22] residents, on taxpayers.

[1:23:25] You know, how do we?

[1:23:27] How do we try to offset that impression?

[1:23:30] Because I'm a taxpayer, I'm a resident and it does feel punitive.

[1:23:34] You. You're telling me when I can wash my car?

[1:23:37] You're telling me when I can water my lawn?

[1:23:41] Is this because the town didn't manage it water properly?

[1:23:44] I think that's going to be the question a lot of people have.

[1:23:48] So I think we do need to do.

[1:23:51] Some advanced separate and apart from the public hearing.

[1:23:55] Because we don't get a lot of people at the public hearing,

[1:23:58] so there needs to be some education, serious education.

[1:24:03] Communication.

[1:24:05] With the residents prior to this going into effect,

[1:24:08] it would be my recommendation would be my suggestion.

[1:24:12] Because this one in particular hits individuals directly,

[1:24:17] I'd like to say one thing before you respond. I I I know I can feel it.

[1:24:24] We are about to get into the cooler months.

[1:24:28] October. We're supposed to have a public hearing

[1:24:32] and we probably won't be really solidifying this maybe until November ish.

[1:24:39] So are the water usage of the town will be down OK?

[1:24:47] Nobody's gonna be out watering their lawns.

[1:24:49] Nobody will be washing their cars, so the educational aspect for this seems

[1:24:53] to me like you'd be able to get it through for the winter time just in time

[1:24:57] for the spring.

[1:25:00] Does that sound kind of.

[1:25:04] Like an outlook?

[1:25:07] I guess or an educational pathway.

[1:25:14] I'm thinking about in terms of how to communicate with the public beyond the

[1:25:19] public hearing process.

[1:25:23] Probably the best suggestion that I have, at least as I'm standing here or thinking

[1:25:28] about at this moment, is that we have an opportunity to to use

[1:25:32] our our Community newsletter that goes out quarterly that could be used.

[1:25:37] I can trap something up to basically say, you know that what the what the what the

[1:25:41] Planning Commission, the town is doing.

[1:25:45] Provide provide a reference to to this ordinance and what we're doing here to

[1:25:50] allow people to.

[1:25:52] Understand.

[1:25:53] What what's being proposed?

[1:25:56] I the the and and I can do that this week 'cause that can cause the it'll time very

[1:26:01] well because the articles are due at the end of the week.

[1:26:04] I don't know when it gets.

[1:26:05] I can't see her and tell you when it gets published though.

[1:26:08] I don't.

[1:26:08] I don't know that that part of it.

[1:26:11] I don't know if if if it's the advice of the Commission to continue this until a

[1:26:18] month after the newsletter goes out.

[1:26:22] And then hold your public hearing so people have the opportunity to digest it

[1:26:27] or look at it.

[1:26:27] Digest it, and then they're ready for a public

[1:26:30] hearing.

[1:26:32] That might be an option.

[1:26:34] If you're, if you want to pursue that, like I said,

[1:26:38] there's no specific time that it has to be in front of the Council.

[1:26:44] And I think the goal of this was really to make this an ordinance that that the

[1:26:49] Commission feels comfortable with to promote to the.

[1:26:52] To the town council now, if we don't get any public comments,

[1:26:56] we get very few.

[1:26:59] Then you know it is what it is, and but there might be some good comments

[1:27:02] that come back from that.

[1:27:03] So that might be an option that that addresses your concerns for getting more

[1:27:08] opportunity for public feedback awareness, because that's going to go out to a whole

[1:27:13] lot more people.

[1:27:16] So that they're aware of it.

[1:27:21] Yeah, it was. No, go ahead.

[1:27:25] Yeah, I was gonna say.

[1:27:26] I think that you know, you also stated a really important thing

[1:27:31] chair banks about.

[1:27:35] How we got to where we are and I think this is, you know, when Mr.

[1:27:39] Dooley put up sort of like this series of three things that are trying to be done

[1:27:45] here. This is part of a bigger area but but the

[1:27:48] apfo.

[1:27:50] A big.

[1:27:50] Part of the driver of that for me is exactly the scenario that you described,

[1:27:57] which is.

[1:28:00] That the town has made commitments to growth through the Planning Commission

[1:28:05] and and and through the Council to development that has outpaced our ability

[1:28:11] to issue permits and that that is a problem and and that and and I agree with

[1:28:17] exactly the sentiment you said.

[1:28:19] And I think that I think it's good you said it out loud like that because you

[1:28:24] know it does have to be acknowledged.

[1:28:26] I think the way we acknowledged it though, in in in current time is is the APFO is

[1:28:34] intended to make the capacities visible to the public,

[1:28:39] to staff and to policy makers, and it introduces A level of

[1:28:44] accountability that as we dig out of this.

[1:28:48] Will keep us on a better path going forward.

[1:28:51] So I I do think that's there.

[1:28:54] The the other piece I I that I still I'm still not sure how to do it from the

[1:28:59] Planning Commission.

[1:29:00] I'm wondering if the the education piece and and the piece the public awareness

[1:29:07] piece, I'm wondering if.

[1:29:10] You know, and I'm. I'm just thinking out loud here in, in,

[1:29:13] in some ways.

[1:29:13] But like if the if another Commissioner committee could take that on.

[1:29:18] Like the the upcoming Sustainability Committee or or or another area of of

[1:29:23] governance oversight is maybe more appropriate than what?

[1:29:27] What it's hard for us I think here to get outside of zoning text amendments, right.

[1:29:33] So. And I think as a matter of policy is what

[1:29:36] we're talking.

[1:29:37] About.

[1:29:39] Related to education and things kind of gets outside of it.

[1:29:42] Or or maybe I'm assuming that wrong. Is it appropriate or is it ever done that

[1:29:45] way in code?

[1:29:46] I haven't really looked into that.

[1:29:47] In from from the standpoint of what we're doing?

[1:29:52] Is there a communications team in the town of Laplata?

[1:29:57] Is there we do have our our Pio.

[1:30:02] With that could certainly be made aware of it,

[1:30:05] to again to advertise that the you know what what we're doing.

[1:30:10] The thing the the only thing I would suggest is this is a great conversation

[1:30:13] to have because we want being obviously transparent to the Community.

[1:30:18] The the one thing though, back your mind to to remember is that

[1:30:24] it's it's.

[1:30:27] It's becomes a very slippery slope that if we,

[1:30:31] if we do more outreach for for some ordinances than others,

[1:30:35] that somebody's gonna say is gonna cry foul because we didn't follow the same

[1:30:41] process that we did before.

[1:30:43] And so that that becomes just something to to lay in the calculus and your

[1:30:47] thoughts.

[1:30:52] Yeah, yeah, that, that, that may be a problem.

[1:30:56] But I was thinking that it's easy to create AQR code.

[1:31:02] You you put Flyers in the library with a QR code that links to the ordinance.

[1:31:06] People can read it.

[1:31:07] You, you we have a website.

[1:31:09] Yeah, we put it on the website.

[1:31:11] We have a new billing system. I think that has a capability of of doing

[1:31:15] some.

[1:31:15] Yeah, you can add the ordinance to a QR code.

[1:31:17] It costs you nothing.

[1:31:18] You can randomly create a QR code.

[1:31:20] People could.

[1:31:21] These are cameras and open it up, or you put a link or hard link for people

[1:31:26] who are not as.

[1:31:28] IPhone savvy as others to use the camera.

[1:31:31] I mean and and I understand your point about, you know.

[1:31:36] Being selective.

[1:31:40] Advertising. But I I just think this one.

[1:31:45] May may hit people.

[1:31:48] More than others, but we have.

[1:31:51] We have sufficiently beat that proverbial horse, so I will.

[1:31:56] I will stand down on that.

[1:31:59] Let me let me go back around one more time. Any final comments on that?

[1:32:04] Before we move forward.

[1:32:09] OK, chair. If it's, if I may and not if I can beat the horse

[1:32:12] one more time.

[1:32:14] Before you actually walk away from it.

[1:32:17] So I'll I'll address with the with the town manager about at least nothing else

[1:32:22] to make the public aware that as part of the town announcements we're working on

[1:32:28] this on this ordinance.

[1:32:31] So if they have questions or whatever.

[1:32:33] They can engage without specifically trying to solicit feedback in that forum.

[1:32:40] Yeah, that sounds good. Until it balances a little bit.

[1:32:43] So that we're not being selectively advertising certain words is more than

[1:32:48] others. OK, that sounds good.

[1:32:52] So let's move to the recommendation.

[1:32:57] Of the planning staff.

[1:33:01] Is there a motion to?

[1:33:05] Adopt A recommendation that.

[1:33:09] If we're generally satisfied that we hold the public hearing October 6th.

[1:33:15] Is there a motion on that or is there a suggestion that?

[1:33:21] We do October 6th with additional comments and and caveats.

[1:33:29] Madam Chair, I'll I'll make a motion that we ask town

[1:33:32] staff to use the feedback they've received tonight,

[1:33:36] both in writing and and orally through through the content of this meeting,

[1:33:40] to to make to the best of their judgment, the intended updates that that the

[1:33:45] Commission has given.

[1:33:46] Them and that that we proceed to the the public meeting the public hearing.

[1:33:54] Next, next month.

[1:33:57] And I'll leave the motion there.

[1:33:59] There.

[1:34:00] Yeah.

[1:34:03] I will and just a just a.

[1:34:06] Pull that string a little bit more the well, I think though,

[1:34:09] with the motion on the table, I think we have to like close the motion

[1:34:12] out and then we can do that.

[1:34:15] If there's a second, I will second that.

[1:34:28] Yes.

[1:34:32] Commissioner, will, yes.

[1:34:36] Mr. hudno? Yes.

[1:34:39] Councilman gutenberg? Yes.

[1:34:44] I'm a yes.

[1:34:48] But with the that we retain the ability to.

[1:34:56] Further discuss and potentially have another like we we still retain that

[1:35:00] option.

[1:35:00] Yes, I I think when we October 6 won't be the

[1:35:03] end all the right.

[1:35:04] Yeah, right.

[1:35:05] The the the outcome of that meeting is we can sit here and say,

[1:35:09] based on the amount of feedback we get, we wanna keep the public meeting open,

[1:35:13] the public record open right or the the the. Yeah, the public record.

[1:35:18] The public hearing.

[1:35:19] The public hearing, yes.

[1:35:20] Gotta use the right word so the public hearings could stay open and we could ask

[1:35:24] it to come back again and again.

[1:35:25] We could do it until we are ready as a as a group to forward a a final

[1:35:30] recommendation to the Council and I think, I think what Commissioner Hudnell said is

[1:35:36] right.

[1:35:38] From a weather standpoint, we're probably not under any specific

[1:35:43] pressure operationally to to do that.

[1:35:46] I think there's other strategy things that would maybe make this.

[1:35:49] You know better.

[1:35:50] Just in just a, you know, I'm sure staff wants to, you know,

[1:35:53] the plates getting loaded up.

[1:35:54] I'm sure with with stuff all the time, so yeah.

[1:35:59] So what?

[1:35:59] I what I failed to include in the as part of the recommendation is that we adopt

[1:36:06] your comments.

[1:36:08] Councilman goodenburg.

[1:36:09] Yeah, I I feel like the motion the way it was

[1:36:11] presented and what we voted on was inclusive of that.

[1:36:14] And I I think staff understands, yeah.

[1:36:17] How's traffic?

[1:36:20] OK, so director Dooley, is there any new business?

[1:36:26] Not tonight.

[1:36:27] No, thank you.

[1:36:30] Councilman Goodenberg, do you have anything?

[1:36:35] I I will just for just general awareness, I think I said this last year around this

[1:36:40] time that the Council this month is later this month on the 17th,

[1:36:44] that we're gonna be off doing.

[1:36:47] Our our goals retreat our priorities.

[1:36:49] I should say priorities retreat, which will be a full day session,

[1:36:53] and so if there's anything you know that that you have in mind that you'd like to,

[1:36:57] you know, have me carry with me in my mind or in in

[1:37:00] an e-mail, please feel free to send it.

[1:37:02] To me, but if not that, that is all I have.

[1:37:06] Thank you, Sir.

[1:37:10] That concludes the meeting.

[1:37:13] So the Planning Commission is officially adjourned.

Planning Commission

Agenda

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