[4:42] Well, you know,

[4:46] wouldn't hurt to get a little bit.

[4:51] » Good job.

[4:54] >> Wouldn't hurt to be able to make a

[4:56] little bit of money on the side. We had

[4:57] a couple of [music]

[4:59] >> Can you turn your mic on?

[5:01] >> There you go. Good job.

[5:03] >> Oh, all righty.

[5:04] >> Thanks.

[5:05] >> Um,

[5:06] now we know that uh

[5:10] we would not initially and probably

[5:13] possibly ever be able to provide water

[5:15] to that campground site. There's [music]

[5:18] a limit on new water hookups in the

[5:20] area. So, our thinking was really just

[5:22] to dry camping, provide electricity at

[5:24] the most to people that were just, you

[5:26] know, looking for a place to to stay for

[5:29] a little bit. Um, not trying to run some

[5:32] big old RV park uh on our property. Um,

[5:36] that's uh basically the idea that we

[5:40] had. Uh we know that there's a lot of

[5:42] stuff that would have to happen if this

[5:44] got approved before we could really open

[5:46] that up to any sort of business, but at

[5:49] the very least, you know, once we got it

[5:50] approved, then we'd be able to have

[5:52] family come out and stay with us and not

[5:53] have to worry about uh running a foul of

[5:56] the government.

[6:00] » I see what your desire is. You say in

[6:03] your application you want to use you

[6:06] have a 33 acre property and you want

[6:09] [music] to use.3 acres

[6:12] for two to four RVs.

[6:15] But as you may know Madison recently

[6:18] adopted a new unified development

[6:20] ordinance that replaced the old one

[6:24] and

[6:26] it was given a whole lot of exposure.

[6:29] There were many meetings, some of them

[6:32] with people advising how to ride it,

[6:34] some of them open to the public. [music]

[6:37] There were meetings with all the various

[6:39] zoning districts laid out.

[6:43] So, there were all kinds of

[6:45] opportunities

[6:46] just very recently

[6:49] to comment about

[6:51] uses in all the various zoning

[6:53] districts. Some of the zoning districts

[6:55] were even changed.

[6:58] And in all the conversation and all the

[7:03] stuff that went on before city council

[7:06] adopted the law, which it is, it's law.

[7:11] The whole subject of putting campgrounds

[7:13] in residential agriculture was never

[7:15] approved and hence you want a variance

[7:18] of use.

[7:20] And under the name of campground, there

[7:24] were a lot of ordinances

[7:28] or a lot of things that have to be

[7:30] satisfied.

[7:31] Here's section 3.4 on page [music] 56.

[7:36] Uh campground standards, minimum lot

[7:40] area 5 acres, site access from a public

[7:43] road at least 24 foot wide, paved first

[7:46] 200 ft.

[7:48] uh fire and EMS shall approve site

[7:51] layout.

[7:53] There are other things.

[7:56] Let's see if I can find them here.

[8:03] Ah, here we go.

[8:06] You have to have in residential

[8:07] agriculture a public water supply, but

[8:10] you don't have to have public sewers.

[8:13] Uh,

[8:17] and the big one you have to install

[8:19] sanitation

[8:22] which I presume in the country out there

[8:25] would mean an adequate size septic tank

[8:28] and a drain field and all that kind of

[8:30] stuff.

[8:32] But those are things that pertain to

[8:34] campgrounds.

[8:37] And certainly if it's going to be used

[8:40] commercially,

[8:42] and by commercial I mean you rent it out

[8:44] to people for a weekend or a week or

[8:46] whatever, then you have to abide by

[8:49] those rules. And now this thing becomes

[8:51] [music] very costly

[8:53] >> because you're going to have to

[8:56] by your own admission and your

[8:58] application you don't have sanitation

[9:00] for this specifically. I presume you

[9:03] have a septic tank for your house.

[9:06] >> Uh I know we're on Riker's Ridge sewer.

[9:08] >> Oh, so you do have a sewer system. Okay.

[9:11] >> Right. And with the uh you know with our

[9:13] family staying like they would use

[9:15] [music] our bathrooms you know when they

[9:17] come they would just be staying in the

[9:18] RV sleeping in the RV using our

[9:21] bathrooms and showers. So it's you know

[9:24] doing the family thing that's not really

[9:28] the big deal. Obviously, if we printed

[9:30] anybody else, then we don't want them

[9:32] using our bathrooms, which [music] is

[9:34] why that would be a much farther in the

[9:36] future because there, like you said,

[9:38] there would be a lot that we had to take

[9:40] care of on our end before it came to

[9:41] being of any commercial value to to

[9:45] doing that or ability to do.

[9:46] >> Well, that was a big concern because I

[9:48] figured they were going to come and they

[9:50] were going to use your potty and your

[9:51] shower.

[9:54] But since you're on Riker's Ridge sewer,

[9:56] then that obiates a lot of problems.

[10:01] Um,

[10:02] but the big problem for me is despite

[10:05] all the meetings and everything that was

[10:07] just very recently held to adopt this

[10:09] new [music] UDO, which follows an awful

[10:12] lot of state guidelines,

[10:16] then

[10:18] it seems to me like

[10:22] your thinking is you're awfully close to

[10:24] the [music] county which would have

[10:25] allowed this under their UDO, But per

[10:30] Indiana law,

[10:33] you're in a two-mile fringe area around

[10:35] the city,

[10:37] which

[10:38] well, it makes some problems for people

[10:41] and it also protects the city.

[10:45] So, there are my issues that it just

[10:50] wasn't allowed.

[10:54] And certainly using a public campground

[10:58] would require a considerable investment.

[11:03] Uh board members, do any of you have any

[11:05] other questions?

[11:08] Well, one thing that that I don't know

[11:10] if everybody knows, but if we give you a

[11:12] variance to do this, that attaches to

[11:15] the property. So, you can sell the

[11:18] property, somebody else could put in 80 cers for a weekend if they had all

[11:23] the water and sewer. So, I

[11:28] don't think that's the right thing to

[11:29] do.

[11:30] >> Now, it was just for your family, your

[11:32] backyard, they pull them in there. I

[11:33] don't think anybody's going to say a

[11:34] word,

[11:36] >> but with the variance, you open up

[11:39] another can of worms.

[11:40] >> Does the not have a limit on it?

[11:43] >> We you can put reasonable conditions on

[11:45] that and then the way we function within

[11:47] the city, those get recorded with the

[11:49] deed.

[11:50] >> Um we go and record those sheets here,

[11:52] you know, after the meeting at [music]

[11:54] some point and um that would get

[11:55] recorded. So definitely looked there

[11:58] were definitely some restrictions I

[11:59] think that need to be put on if if you

[12:01] consider it such as number of campsites

[12:04] and um even maybe a setback or something

[12:06] like that but yeah

[12:08] >> but without the water and sewer and all

[12:10] that I'm not far this

[12:18] » um

[12:19] yes sir have you spoken to record

[12:24] they let you tap

[12:26] or tied into your existing.

[12:30] >> Uh so we haven't talked to anybody about

[12:33] doing the you know the work um beyond

[12:36] that one. It seemed like there wasn't a

[12:39] whole lot of point until we found out if

[12:41] we even got the variance. [music] Um and

[12:44] you know the primary purpose of the

[12:45] variance was for family to be able to

[12:48] stay. So even if we got the variance and

[12:50] they all told us no, you can't put in

[12:52] water, you can't put in sewer, we were

[12:54] like, well, you know, at least we can

[12:55] still have our family stay without

[12:57] anybody being able to call the city on

[12:59] us for the family. So, um, we haven't

[13:02] really pursued that. Uh, there is

[13:04] another campground just down the road

[13:06] and when I was going around talking to

[13:08] people, he told me all the stuff that

[13:10] he's gone through. I was like, man, I

[13:12] don't know if it's worth going all that

[13:14] for like maybe 50 extra bucks a weekend.

[13:17] [laughter] So, We got some nice

[13:19] campgrounds here for your family to come

[13:21] in and use. You know, you go out Quincy

[13:23] Falls, nice campground up here on the

[13:25] river, but

[13:28] I just assume that they would come visit

[13:30] you and use those. I mean, that's just my opinion, only one person. And I

[13:35] read the comments with the neighbors and

[13:37] of course they they raised a lot of

[13:39] concerns about the heavy traffic on K

[13:42] Road and K Road as you know, is a narrow

[13:45] road.

[13:46] >> Yes. And uh I can't I can't imagine

[13:49] pulling the camper down that road and

[13:51] feeling real comfortable about it

[13:52] because it's

[13:54] reminds me of what see back in one of

[13:56] those what was it D Martin the camper

[14:00] got in all kind I can see K road doing

[14:02] that being the best.

[14:05] Well, and I guess when we were

[14:06] envisioning it, like my parents' bumper

[14:08] [music] pole is a small one, not one of

[14:12] the big long um she has a I guess it's

[14:16] both of our brothers-in-law, her

[14:18] sister's husband. [music]

[14:19] Uh they have, you know, a little popup

[14:21] camper, right? That's like kind of on

[14:24] our mind. We were never envisioning 40

[14:27] foot

[14:28] >> class A RVs or anything like that trying

[14:30] to work their way back onto K Road

[14:32] because that's a little bit crazy.

[14:33] >> Yeah. We didn't we didn't know that we

[14:36] the RV

[14:37] >> right

[14:37] >> that you know they can go up the highle

[14:39] >> but we're definitely willing to put like

[14:41] restrictions on size for the

[14:45] piece.

[14:47] >> Any other questions or comments board

[14:49] members?

[14:50] >> No.

[14:54] Well, this is a fivep person board and

[14:57] obviously only three of us are here

[14:59] tonight

[15:01] and

[15:03] obviously also to pass anything you have

[15:05] to have three four three votes four.

[15:10] And so if you read the board,

[15:14] we could give you the opportunity if you

[15:16] want to think it over and come up with

[15:17] some

[15:21] voluntary restrictions

[15:24] and you'd like to come back later,

[15:28] then we'd be very glad to table it for

[15:29] you so you don't have to reapply or do

[15:31] anything.

[15:35] » Um, we'd be happy to do that.

[15:38] I think that would probably be a good

[15:39] idea. And if the full board were here,

[15:43] >> um I don't know if you can answer this.

[15:45] Are there any particular restrictions

[15:47] [music]

[15:47] that you would like us to consider?

[15:50] >> Well, the neighbors are going to be

[15:51] terribly worried

[15:54] as we've been through this before on K

[15:56] Road, not with a campground, but with

[15:58] another use.

[16:00] The neighbors are going to be concerned

[16:03] about

[16:04] first of all traffic.

[16:07] RVs [music] trying to negotiate

[16:10] that miserable K Road.

[16:13] They're going to be worried about

[16:15] disturbances. They're going to be

[16:16] worried about your property being used

[16:18] as a

[16:21] uh what do you call them? 18 off

[16:24] allterrain vehicle park with guys

[16:26] roaring around at 3:00 in the morning,

[16:28] >> right? They're going to be concerned

[16:30] about guys shooting off guns and getting

[16:32] drunk and

[16:34] generally raising houble toothpicks

[16:36] [music]

[16:36] which has happened out there.

[16:41] So I think those are going to be major

[16:43] concerns.

[16:45] So if you crafted something that even

[16:47] you indicated to your neighbors that you

[16:49] only wanted family members, you only

[16:51] wanted them x number of weekends or

[16:55] whatever a year,

[16:57] uh you realize you'd have to comply with

[17:00] the campground regulations which is

[17:02] involves you know installing sewer

[17:06] risers

[17:08] was having a you know RVs have holding

[17:10] tanks and they got to be dumped.

[17:15] and Scott, I'll give them if you'd like

[17:17] a copy. We did receive two comments. One

[17:19] came in yesterday. I think one came in,

[17:21] late [music] Friday. So, I'll give you

[17:23] those just so you have some help.

[17:26] Alleviate some concerns then,

[17:30] >> as I am pretty sure, most of the

[17:32] neighbors are going to be opposed. And

[17:34] there is also the issue that Mr. here

[17:37] brought up that it goes on under the new

[17:39] rules of the state of Indiana, these

[17:42] things go on your property deed.

[17:46] And so while you may be very responsible

[17:48] and decent people, [music] you sell the

[17:50] property and there's no guarantee,

[17:53] >> right?

[17:54] >> You want to correct me?

[17:55] >> No, I mean generally use variances,

[17:57] [music] development standards variances,

[17:58] those do run with the land just like

[18:00] we've talked about special exceptions.

[18:02] There are instances a lot of times you

[18:04] need to let those run with [music] the

[18:05] land if there's been an investment like

[18:08] you know conversion to a a new use or

[18:10] something like that because um

[18:12] especially like accessory dwelling

[18:13] [music] units you can put some

[18:16] restrictions on that you've done that on

[18:18] a few others but I wouldn't make that's

[18:20] not the norm that's not the normal route

[18:23] when it's something operationally based

[18:25] um I think it's something you can

[18:26] consider that's

[18:29] a little bit of a different use um I

[18:31] know they are the last parcel in our

[18:33] [music] jurisdiction. So the other side

[18:35] of them other side of this property is

[18:37] in the county's jurisdiction. So they're

[18:39] right on our edge of [music] our

[18:40] jurisdiction. Um

[18:42] >> well I see your situation.

[18:45] You're literally [music] 2 feet away

[18:47] from where you could do this in the

[18:48] white care.

[18:50] >> I apologize for

[18:53] >> not following what was happening in

[18:54] Madison. But before this, we thought we

[18:56] were in the county, so we just weren't

[18:59] really paying attention to what was

[19:00] going on in Mass.

[19:01] >> Well, you got to live and learn.

[19:03] >> Yeah. So,

[19:04] >> you got to learn that you live under

[19:06] government laws. It's it's called due

[19:08] diligence.

[19:10] And if you were to start [music] a

[19:11] business,

[19:13] like you want to build a business, then

[19:15] you're probably going to take [music]

[19:16] core samples to see if your ground's

[19:18] contaminated and various things like

[19:20] that.

[19:22] So, you gota Until

[19:25] I got on this board, I was like you. I

[19:27] didn't realize.

[19:29] But now I understand that

[19:34] >> there are an awful lot of things you've

[19:35] got to look into.

[19:37] >> You're not the first person to get

[19:38] tripped up,

[19:40] >> right? No.

[19:41] >> Um,

[19:45] » can you chime in? Is there there's still

[19:47] there's no reason families

[19:50] can't spend. So RVs are um a little bit

[19:53] of a tricky one. So RVs, they are not a

[19:55] HUD approved dwelling unit. So um they

[19:58] can't be used for permanent residency um

[20:02] because they're a temporary portable

[20:03] structure. They're not a permanent

[20:05] residence. So people cannot live in

[20:06] those outside of campgrounds. Within our

[20:09] jurisdiction, the county's jurisdiction

[20:10] is the same. [music] Um we don't have

[20:13] provisions that allow for temporary

[20:15] occupancy of those. Um again, outside of

[20:18] a campground.

[20:20] So that's kind of where you run into a

[20:21] little bit of this this issue.

[20:24] >> Well, if you'd like to think it over,

[20:26] we'd be glad to table it.

[20:27] >> Okay.

[20:28] >> You can ponder it.

[20:30] So we'll do that.

[20:31] >> Yes.

[20:32] >> You want to go ahead and do public

[20:34] comment and have the public hearing now

[20:35] or you tableabling everything till the

[20:37] next meeting?

[20:37] >> We'll table it till the next meeting. I

[20:40] think we're trying to look out. We're

[20:42] considering you, but we also we've been

[20:44] through this on K Road.

[20:47] As I talked to my neighbors, I learned

[20:49] that they've been through this on K

[20:51] Road.

[20:53] >> Yeah,

[20:54] >> we're learning.

[20:55] >> Scott, do you want to make sure there's

[20:56] nobody who's in attend [music]

[20:57] attendance today that can't attend the

[20:59] next meeting just in case there's a

[21:01] comment? Just a thought. So for you.

[21:05] >> Well, that's just a few folks that have

[21:07] a seat.

[21:08] >> All right.

[21:08] >> As [music]

[21:10] our secretary, Miss Williams, pointed

[21:12] out, if any of you in our next regular

[21:14] meeting August 14th, mber 14th [music]

[21:17] >> August 14th September se

[21:20] >> September excuse me September 14th if

[21:22] you can't be here on that day have an

[21:24] obligation

[21:26] then we'd be glad to take like a two or

[21:28] three minute comment from you so you can

[21:31] be heard otherwise we'll postpone

[21:33] comments till that [music] next regular

[21:35] meeting

[21:37] >> out of town

[21:38] >> well come on up

[21:41] years

[21:43] >> can you state your name and address

[21:44] please thanks [music]

[21:46] Terry can live at 2400 Caster Lane. I've

[21:49] farmed up here in 30 [music] some years

[21:51] and you know we pull we pull semis in

[21:53] there or 30 34 foot trailers you know

[21:56] it's

[21:58] like you said a public campground now

[21:59] family I would have no problem with but

[22:01] I don't think they need to be in now

[22:03] they're all the time like the public

[22:05] campground and didn't you say on the law

[22:07] they stated the road had to be 24 foot.

[22:11] Well, that's the uh

[22:13] >> internal driveway.

[22:14] >> The entrance off of the public road has

[22:16] to be 25 wide and

[22:20] >> uh paved for the first 200 ft.

[22:22] >> Like I said, you know, I know I cannot

[22:24] get up through there and stay on my side

[22:25] of the road on them turns on the hills,

[22:27] especially that's what you know would

[22:29] concern me.

[22:30] >> Thank you.

[22:31] >> You're welcome.

[22:33] If anybody else cannot be here on

[22:36] September [music] 14th and you'd like to

[22:38] say a brief comment for the record,

[22:39] you're sure welcome.

[22:43] My name is Roger Ward. I'm president of

[22:46] Rers Water Company, which this falls

[22:49] under our jurisdiction. I have a

[22:51] document I want to submit [music] to you

[22:54] all that may or may not help you in

[22:58] future endeavors. I'll read it out loud.

[23:00] Dearba members, this letter is to inform

[23:02] you that Kro [music] Jefferson County

[23:04] Indiana has a moratorum in place and at

[23:07] this time no water taps for water are

[23:09] available. This moratorum has been in

[23:11] place for several [music] years signed

[23:13] by the board of directors. I just want

[23:14] this on record that will help you that

[23:18] next time a K road thing comes up there

[23:20] is no water available.

[23:23] >> Thank you.

[23:24] >> I'll take that and skin it in

[23:26] >> and board. I move we accept this letter

[23:29] into the public record.

[23:31] Second.

[23:32] >> All in favor say I. I.

[23:34] >> I. Oppos. No. It's accepted.

[23:36] >> And one clarification too. Um I believe

[23:38] our Oh, this is a use variance. So there

[23:40] would be no time necessarily limit on

[23:42] that, but special exceptions would be a

[23:44] two years. You could establish the use

[23:46] within two years. So um don't know when

[23:48] that might be lifted, but um doesn't

[23:50] sound like maybe within the couple year

[23:52] frame maybe. But okay.

[23:56] Uh

[23:58] well, we have

[24:01] [music]

[24:03] taken care of any possible public

[24:05] comments and

[24:08] we do not move to table it. So I move

[24:12] [music] we table this application till

[24:13] our next regular meeting.

[24:18] » Have a second.

[24:19] >> Second.

[24:20] >> All in favor say I.

[24:22] >> I.

[24:24] oppose. No.

[24:27] Uh folks,

[24:32] so if any of you folk I suspect some of

[24:35] you are here on account of this, we will

[24:38] take the whole issue up unless the

[24:40] applicants withdraw it obviously, but we

[24:43] will take the issue up and have comment

[24:46] as needed at our September 14 regular

[24:51] meeting.

[24:52] So, if any of you uh like to leave now,

[24:55] if you're not interested in staying on

[24:57] watching our solemn proceedings, you're

[24:59] sure welcome. [music]

[25:06] Okay. [music]

[25:14] Okay. Next item on the agenda.

[25:24] is BZVD-26-8

[25:30] Luke Taylor Tammy Bednar requesting

[25:33] variance from developmental standards

[25:36] for an accessory [music] structure

[25:38] setback 828 West 2nd Street. So somebody

[25:42] speaking on their behalf. Yes sir.

[25:46] give your name and address and explain

[25:48] the situation.

[25:50] >> Name is Luke Taylor. Uh I live in Scott

[25:53] County, but address in question is 828

[25:54] West Second Street.

[26:00] And you are requesting

[26:03] a variance from developmental standards,

[26:06] I understand,

[26:08] to install a carport type of a roof

[26:11] thing over an existing driveway.

[26:14] >> Yes, sir.

[26:16] And the driveway has been there I

[26:17] presume since Noah's flood

[26:21] >> sometime. Yes. [music] At

[26:22] >> least the 37

[26:28] and you're just simply going to you have

[26:31] to have a variance because it's a

[26:32] structure and the driveway was situated

[26:34] such that you have to do this one of

[26:36] these things we run into downtown all

[26:39] the time.

[26:42] Board members, do you have any questions

[26:44] or comments?

[26:48] » A reasonable sense to me. I mean, just a

[26:50] carport [music] iss pretty simple.

[26:52] Garage or blocked view of anything.

[26:55] >> It's just an open typical carport with

[26:59] nothing but some pillars and a roof.

[27:01] >> Yes, sir.

[27:04] >> To specify it is a the required setback

[27:07] is 3 ft. He's requesting approximately a

[27:09] foot um set back from that property

[27:12] line. And there is an existing [music]

[27:14] privacy fence between that property line

[27:17] that does not want to stay on here. Um

[27:19] that property line [music] and uh the

[27:21] carport.

[27:24] So you have

[27:26] lot line here,

[27:28] privacy fence here, driveway here,

[27:33] and you want to put [music]

[27:36] the uh carport roof right smack over the

[27:41] driveway.

[27:43] So you're already

[27:46] constrained by a privacy fence that's

[27:48] probably been there forever.

[27:50] >> Yes, sir. The privacy fence is the

[27:52] neighbors to the north of the It's not

[27:55] uh Miss Bendar's property, but it's the

[27:57] neighbors of the north property.

[28:01] Okay. Any questions or comments, board

[28:04] members?

[28:07] >> I don't see

[28:09] build.

[28:11] >> Correct. Correct.

[28:12] >> All right.

[28:14] >> I got approved for the board of

[28:16] appropriate or certificate of

[28:17] appropriate

[28:18] historic board and get it approved. So

[28:20] that will fit the historic character.

[28:22] >> No issue with a water shed or anything

[28:24] off the roof to your neighbor.

[28:25] >> I'm running a gutter on the back end and

[28:28] it's going to come down the driveway

[28:29] towards the road. So it's going to be

[28:30] the same water flow as right now.

[28:32] >> Okay. Very good. Thank you.

[28:34] >> Which is the only consideration because

[28:36] you can't dump your water on the

[28:37] neighbor's lot.

[28:38] >> Correct.

[28:41] » Would anybody in the audience like to

[28:43] speak for or against this application?

[28:47] Well, seeing none, you can have a seat,

[28:50] sir.

[28:50] >> Thank you.

[28:52] >> We will go through our findings of fact

[28:57] uh

[28:59] is variance developmental standards.

[29:01] Three criteria. Number one, it's not

[29:03] injurious to public health safety

[29:05] morals.

[29:07] Uh Mr. Eagland,

[29:09] >> no, it's not. It's going to be a nice

[29:11] addition.

[29:14] >> Mr. Ramik, I have no issues.

[29:17] Um, I see no

[29:21] possible way that's going to adversely

[29:23] affect anything. I think that one's met.

[29:26] Uh, number two, use and value of the

[29:29] area adjacent to the property is not

[29:31] affected in a substantially adverse

[29:33] manner. Mr. Eagland,

[29:35] >> no, I think it approved because his

[29:37] neighbor also has a [music] carport,

[29:39] some additions down there. So, it's kind

[29:41] of a improving neighborhood down there.

[29:43] I think this is just help.

[29:45] >> Mr. ceramic. Sounds good. And uh I see

[29:50] no, we've certainly had no testimony

[29:53] from a recognized authority that

[29:55] anything's going to be adversely hurt.

[29:57] So I think that one's met.

[30:00] And number three,

[30:04] strict application of this ordinance

[30:06] will result in a practical difficulty.

[30:08] What is it, Mr. Eagland? I don't see any

[30:12] real hard nothing tough about this one.

[30:16] Pretty simple. Mr. Amik,

[30:20] I agree. It's straightforward.

[30:23] Uh

[30:26] the practical difficulty and the reason

[30:28] he has to have the variance of

[30:30] development standards is that it is

[30:32] considered a structure and it's within

[30:34] the three-foot limit.

[30:37] So, I think that one's met.

[30:40] Well, having gone through our

[30:41] application and our findings of fact,

[30:46] I take a motion.

[30:49] I'll make a motion we approve BZVD-26-8.

[30:51] [music]

[30:55] » And could we have a roll call?

[31:00] >> Yes.

[31:04] >> And we wish you well, sir.

[31:23] The next item on the agenda agenda

[31:25] BZVD-26-9 [music]

[31:28] 590 East Clifty Drive. It was a request

[31:31] for variance from developmental

[31:33] standards for a primary structure

[31:35] setback. That one has requested to be

[31:37] tabled [music] till our next regular

[31:40] meeting

[31:42] >> that we need to table it because we

[31:44] won't have a quorum. Um

[31:47] >> yeah,

[31:50] » that's a good reason.

[31:52] I move we table this application till

[31:55] our next regular meeting.

[31:57] >> I'll second the motion.

[31:59] >> And can we have a roll call?

[32:02] >> Thanks. Scott Baldwin,

[32:03] >> yes.

[32:03] >> Carl England,

[32:04] >> yes. and Brian Amy, you're going to

[32:06] [music] abstain. Okay, that's what I

[32:08] thought you said. Two to one abstain.

[32:11] And just to clarify, too, that's

[32:12] September 14th, [music] 6 PM at city

[32:14] hall.

[32:16] >> Uh, next item on the agenda, BZCU-26-8,

[32:23] Kevin Mason, uh, from Electriccom.inc.

[32:28] Special exception approval to operate a

[32:30] short-term rental at 508 Jefferson

[32:32] Street.

[32:34] We have somebody come up and address

[32:36] this.

[32:40] » My name is Lori Kendall representing

[32:43] Electriccom, Inc. and the property is at

[32:46] 508 Jefferson Street.

[32:49] >> And

[32:51] just exactly what are you planning on

[32:53] doing there?

[32:55] >> We [music]

[32:56] um would like to operate a short-term

[32:58] vacation rental like a Airbnb. Um, our

[33:02] company currently has four, three in

[33:05] French and one here in Madison, which is

[33:08] [music] actually connected to this

[33:11] building.

[33:12] So, we're just wanting to um allow

[33:15] variance for us [music] to have a

[33:18] short-term vacation rental.

[33:20] >> Usually weekends, maybe three-day

[33:22] weekends. We rarely have somebody that

[33:23] stays a week, and we only allow two

[33:26] weeks at a time.

[33:30] Uh board members, do you have any

[33:32] questions or comments?

[33:35] Have there been any complaints with

[33:36] their

[33:37] >> Not to my knowledge. No, that was the

[33:39] one I think you [music] you approved

[33:40] earlier this year. Um maybe January,

[33:43] February, March, somewhere in that

[33:44] range.

[33:45] >> No problems.

[33:46] >> No, sir.

[33:48] >> Probably about the same criteria as far

[33:49] as rules and regulations as you

[33:51] >> absolutely. We do have pretty strict

[33:53] [music] rules. um no more than the

[33:56] maximum number allowed for guests. This

[33:59] is a threebedroom three-bedroom home, so

[34:02] it would be a six guest [music]

[34:04] maximum. Okay.

[34:05] >> Um we require proof of ID. They have to

[34:09] be an established

[34:11] uh renter. They've had to have rented

[34:13] from Airbnb or VRBO before with good

[34:16] ratings. Um they must be 21. They must

[34:19] abide by thy quiet hours. So we have

[34:22] pretty strict

[34:23] >> Is there any off off streetet parking

[34:25] back in the alley behind?

[34:27] >> There is there's garage parking there

[34:29] and then there's [music] uh front street

[34:31] parking.

[34:31] >> Okay.

[34:32] >> Yeah.

[34:34] >> Four.

[34:34] [music] Yeah.

[34:35] >> Okay. Four places. Good.

[34:37] >> Okay.

[34:40] Let's see. And you have provided rules

[34:45] which frankly

[34:47] >> we [music] no we do not we cannot

[34:49] require them to submit those but um I

[34:52] think if

[34:52] >> I think we did with the pre with the one

[34:55] next door but I didn't with this one the

[34:58] same you can apply those same rules.

[35:00] >> They are the same. [music] Yes.

[35:04] » Board members. Any other questions or

[35:06] comments?

[35:11] Would anyone in the audience like to

[35:13] speak for against this?

[35:16] >> Apparently not.

[35:17] >> I lost our audience. [laughter]

[35:21] >> They're country people.

[35:25] Well, you can have a a seat, ma'am.

[35:27] >> Thank you.

[35:31] » This is a special exception. [music]

[35:36] And we have several findings in fact we

[35:39] have to go through six of them.

[35:44] Uh so the first one

[35:48] I'll just briefly go [music] through

[35:49] them and you can

[35:52] for the purposes of the record if

[35:54] somebody's watching

[35:56] I will read the category and I'll just

[35:59] ask if any of you have any objections.

[36:02] Uh the first fact

[36:04] uh is will this detrimental or endanger

[36:08] public health, safety, morals or general

[36:10] welfare? Anybody have any issues there?

[36:13] >> No. No.

[36:15] >> Uh fact two,

[36:17] a special exception is not injurious to

[36:19] [music] use and enjoyment of other

[36:21] property in the immediate vicinity.

[36:26] No problems. Number three, [music]

[36:30] uh this special exception will not

[36:32] impede or substantially older the normal

[36:34] and orderly development and improvement

[36:36] of surrounding property for uses in this

[36:39] district. Any problems?

[36:41] >> No issues.

[36:43] >> Number four, there are adequate

[36:45] utilities, access road, drainage, etc.

[36:49] Any issues?

[36:50] >> No.

[36:52] Number five,

[36:54] uh there they have taken adequate

[36:57] measures to provide ingress and egress

[37:00] to minimize traffic congestion.

[37:03] >> Yes.

[37:03] >> Any any issues?

[37:05] >> No.

[37:07] >> And number six,

[37:10] it's located in a district which where

[37:12] such use is permitted

[37:14] and they will meet any other

[37:16] requirements in this UDO.

[37:19] Any issues?

[37:25] that we will take a motion.

[37:31] I move we approve the special exception.

[37:35] Second motion

[37:38] and we have a roll call.

[37:40] >> Of course. Uh Scott Baldwin.

[37:42] >> Yes.

[37:43] >> Carl England.

[37:44] >> Yes.

[37:44] >> Brian Brian Amik. [music]

[37:46] >> Yes.

[37:48] Well, we wish you well, ladies.

[38:01] And last item on our agenda,

[38:05] BZVU-26-5,

[38:07] [music]

[38:08] Linda Lockach,

[38:12] requesting a variance of use to operate

[38:14] a short-term rental.

[38:16] I understand it's it says here 945 West

[38:20] second but that's also 947 as well.

[38:23] >> Yes,

[38:23] >> there are two addresses.

[38:25] >> Well, I own 947.

[38:30] >> So, your application is for 947. [music]

[38:33] >> Yes.

[38:34] >> And 945 is what I had said.

[38:36] >> I know, but when I came in several

[38:39] times, it [music] had something to do

[38:41] with a zoning issue and

[38:45] >> Okay. So I kept saying it's 947 and they

[38:48] [music] understand it

[38:49] >> and it was advertised as the comp like

[38:52] when we did the mailings and everything,

[38:54] [music]

[38:54] >> right? I put

[38:55] >> it was advertised for both of them. So

[38:56] >> yeah, I put in parentheses 947 when I

[39:00] sent out the certified [music]

[39:02] >> letters.

[39:05] >> Well, then I think we're on

[39:08] solid ground.

[39:10] I don't think anybody's going to file

[39:13] huge lawsuits.

[39:16] Uh let's see here.

[39:21] » So, you're requesting a variance of use.

[39:27] » And I'll explain that too.

[39:29] >> You normally get these coming in as our

[39:31] special exception or what we used to

[39:32] call conditional uses. Um, so the

[39:34] difference here is she is actually zoned

[39:37] local business and surrounded by HDR

[39:41] more or less. And I can I'm going to

[39:42] actually zoom up here actually in

[39:44] [music] the application. Here we go in

[39:46] the staff report. So she is the this is

[39:50] the parcel we're kind of talking about

[39:51] on the screen. I don't know why that TV

[39:54] turned [music] off, but I don't know if

[39:55] you guys it's in your packet on this

[39:56] page.

[39:57] >> And then the pink around it is HDR. So,

[40:00] HDR, that would be a special exception

[40:02] use local business. Um, it's one of

[40:05] those things that's on my list as we go

[40:06] through the six-month assessment here,

[40:08] and we'll start that in the next month

[40:09] or two to to consider that to just make

[40:12] it permitted um within that district.

[40:15] [music] Uh because you can have a lot

[40:16] more intense commercial uses within

[40:18] local business. The reason it wasn't

[40:19] initially put in there was because we

[40:21] typically don't have our single family

[40:23] dwellings in a local business [music]

[40:24] district in a business district for

[40:26] single family dwellings or you know

[40:28] duplexes. Um now [music] that's not the

[40:32] case cuz I don't know the history of why

[40:34] this little corner is zoned local

[40:37] business and not HDR. [music]

[40:39] Um

[40:40] >> may have been a grocery store once.

[40:42] >> It probably was something at one point.

[40:43] Um, and again, you can kind of see that

[40:46] those are um it's that corner parcel.

[40:50] I'm going to zoom in here and then the 945 947. So, this parcel and then

[40:57] those I don't know why these were zoned

[40:59] at compared to right you could have had

[41:01] something commercial. You have those

[41:02] mixed in with HDR. [music]

[41:04] Um, so that's the need for a variance

[41:06] versus

[41:08] just a special exception. Would it be

[41:10] better all around if she just went to

[41:13] plan commission and just have the

[41:15] property reszoned? Something rational?

[41:17] >> So, we [music] did talk we talked

[41:18] through kind of all the options, right?

[41:20] You can go through use variance, you can go through reszoning. Um, this

[41:25] does preserve more [music] commercial

[41:27] options if you ever wanted to do those

[41:28] in the future. Um, because if you go to

[41:32] HDR, a lot of those commercial options

[41:35] fall off. But right now you could put

[41:37] [music] a hotel on that locate and

[41:40] obviously it's constrained by the site.

[41:42] But [music] um you can put a lot more

[41:44] intense uses on that site.

[41:47] >> So if we give her abuse, we are

[41:49] potentially disrupting a neighborhood

[41:51] where everybody went thinking it was HDR

[41:55] and they wanted to live there and now

[41:57] [music] all of a sudden somebody comes

[41:58] in and puts a gambling casino.

[42:02] >> Be a small one on that parcel, but

[42:04] [laughter]

[42:05] Um, again, I think that's the this use

[42:09] is actually probably more appropriate

[42:10] for the surrounding uses um than a more

[42:14] intense commercial local commercial, you

[42:16] know, use that would be permitted in

[42:17] that LB [music] district. So,

[42:20] >> I can see that may well have been a

[42:22] grocery store because that's West

[42:23] Madison, I think, and that was a whole

[42:26] another entity once upon a time. And

[42:30] there did used to be a lot of

[42:31] neighborhood grocery stores which don't

[42:33] exist anymore.

[42:36] >> And the comprehensive plan does identify

[42:38] this as the neighborhood mixeduse area.

[42:39] [music]

[42:40] So, I know again you have some

[42:41] sprinkling. We used to have a district

[42:43] called the specialty district, the SD

[42:44] district that [music] got kind of

[42:46] combined and absorbed into HDR because

[42:49] it was small scale, right? It wasn't the

[42:51] larger scale um commercial uses. So, but

[42:54] when we did do the map [music] um

[42:56] adoption, we just solely converted the

[42:58] map. Uh with the new UDO, we did not

[43:03] reszone anybody. this would have been

[43:05] one you could have considered but again

[43:07] allowing for those commercial [music]

[43:08] corner stores is I think you know a

[43:11] valid thing too in the future.

[43:15] It's just I see the point of people who

[43:18] buy properties under the assumption that

[43:21] this is just going to be a peaceful

[43:22] neighborhood and either I'm going to

[43:24] live in it or I'm going to put an Airbnb

[43:26] here

[43:28] and my Airbnb is going to be

[43:31] viable because it's such a charming

[43:33] little neighborhood. And then somebody

[43:35] comes in and puts a cowboy bar

[43:38] and there is such a thing over on that

[43:40] side of town in the middle of a

[43:42] residential area. There's a bar.

[43:47] I saw you come out of that.

[43:48] >> But those are permitted by right. I

[43:50] mean, so those commercial uses are

[43:51] permitted by [music] right. Some of

[43:53] those, you know what I mean? By right

[43:55] today. So that's um

[43:59] I think outside that debate, [music] I

[44:01] guess. Does that make sense?

[44:02] >> Yeah.

[44:02] >> Um we'll make sure

[44:06] we're not trying to [music]

[44:08] we're not discussing actually putting

[44:09] anything else like that in there. This

[44:11] brings it down a little bit in terms of

[44:13] the intensity [music] of what it could

[44:14] be by right.

[44:18] >> Board members, I've spoken my beast. Do

[44:21] any of you have any comments, any

[44:22] opinions, any feelings, any questions

[44:25] for applicant?

[44:27] >> I guess you have rules and regulations

[44:30] and

[44:31] >> Yes, I have rules. Uh, no pets. [music]

[44:34] Uh, limited number of people will mostly

[44:37] be used on the weekends.

[44:39] Uh, I have I live my residence is

[44:42] [music] across the street, so I know

[44:45] pretty much what's going on.

[44:47] >> And uh I have a garage to park my

[44:50] vehicles [music] in. So there's plenty

[44:53] of parking in that area even when there

[44:56] are [music] events going on here in town

[44:59] and um the neighbors [music] have been

[45:02] notified and they are in agreement.

[45:04] >> Good.

[45:05] >> And heard back from the neighbors.

[45:07] [music]

[45:08] So, uh, I have a manager who has done

[45:12] this, uh, with quite a few people here

[45:15] in town, and so she's going to basically

[45:18] [music] take care of of running it.

[45:21] >> So, she'll be 24-hour call if needed.

[45:24] >> Yes,

[45:25] >> she'll be on the call,

[45:26] >> right? her phone number be on the wall

[45:28] there somewhere where

[45:29] >> Yes, she I have my own book with her

[45:31] number in it and I have uh

[45:35] extra lock in case something goes wrong

[45:37] with the automatic lock and um I think

[45:42] [music]

[45:43] um actually the neighborhood's kind of

[45:45] improved because I knew that was going

[45:47] to go in because I have to take care of

[45:48] the alleys and some of the other

[45:51] properties [music] that are not being

[45:52] taken care of. I have to clean it up. So

[45:55] it looks presentable. So I think [music]

[45:57] it's been the idea has been beneficial.

[46:01] >> Yeah, you're in the you are in a

[46:03] improving neighborhood.

[46:05] >> Definitely. Things are getting better.

[46:08] So yeah, I think it's be a nice fit.

[46:12] >> Any other questions or comments, board

[46:14] members?

[46:17] >> Scott, you did have one public comment

[46:20] that was submitted. He did put in there

[46:22] he's requesting [music] it to be read.

[46:24] So that's up to you. Um, but at least

[46:26] making sure that gets into the record

[46:27] with you guys from a

[46:29] >> Yes, we are. David Weise.

[46:30] >> David Weise.

[46:34] >> Um, and reading it, you're 947.

[46:38] Correct. One of the statements it does

[46:40] say 9 the the 947 Airbnb was done

[46:44] properly. We have no complaints. That's

[46:46] the 947. I think his complaints do

[46:48] center around 945. [music] So, excluding

[46:51] that, that's

[46:52] >> right. because they do not mow their

[46:55] yard and I

[46:56] >> He does take care,

[46:57] >> you know, I take care of their sidewalk

[46:58] and their alley

[47:00] >> and but I [music] can't go on their

[47:02] property to take care of their lawn,

[47:04] >> right?

[47:04] >> So, uh you know, he lives directly in

[47:08] back [music] of me and um I don't think

[47:12] that we have any problems.

[47:14] >> Okay. And I would make sure any [music]

[47:16] motion specifies 947 and then that's

[47:20] all.

[47:20] >> Right. And you are correct. His letter

[47:22] is mostly about 945.

[47:25] In fact, he compliments 947

[47:29] as being an Airbnb that was done right.

[47:33] Uh can wait one moment. Ma'am, I move we

[47:37] accept this letter from David Weise into

[47:39] the public record.

[47:40] >> I second your motion.

[47:41] >> All in favor say I. I. Oppose. No. It's

[47:44] accepted.

[47:47] >> Uh one last chance. Board members, any

[47:49] other questions or comments?

[47:52] I doubt there will be any public

[47:54] comment.

[47:57] >> Well, you can have a seat, ma'am.

[48:09] And this is a variance of use

[48:15] being done

[48:17] because this is one of those weird

[48:19] things that comes up downtown

[48:23] from a very old downtown that started to

[48:25] have zoning ordinance in 1966.

[48:31] And every so often these things come up.

[48:33] [music] So this is for variance of use.

[48:35] There are five findings of fact.

[48:38] I will go through them and I'm going to

[48:40] ask you each to [music] comment because

[48:44] as one very astute man I knew once put

[48:48] it, a variance of use is an end run

[48:50] around the zoning ordinance.

[48:52] Maybe not in this case because of the

[48:54] circumstances.

[48:57] So number one, it's not injurious to the

[49:00] public health, safety, morals, general

[49:01] welfare. Mr. England.

[49:03] >> No, it's not.

[49:04] >> Mr. Amik,

[49:05] >> I agree it's not.

[49:08] >> Um,

[49:10] I don't see any way it is either. I

[49:12] think that's met. Number two,

[49:15] uh, that's the use and value of adjacent

[49:17] properties not being hurt. Uh, Mr.

[49:20] Eagland,

[49:21] >> I'm referred,

[49:23] >> Mr. Amik.

[49:26] and we've heard no testimony that it

[49:31] potentially will harm

[49:33] property values or anything. So, I think

[49:36] that one's met. Number three,

[49:39] this is a big one. The need for the

[49:41] variance arises from some condition

[49:43] peculiar to this property. What is it,

[49:46] Mr. England?

[49:47] >> The local business.

[49:49] But uh yeah, I think uh I think it's

[49:52] necessary to allow the variance.

[49:56] >> Mr. Amic. [music]

[50:00] » Yeah, I agree.

[50:08] » And that is definitely a peculiarity

[50:11] that it's all zoned HDR.

[50:14] But here's one place that [music] for

[50:16] who knows why

[50:19] was owned local business once

[50:23] and

[50:25] local business does not allow housing

[50:27] like this. So, I think that's pretty

[50:30] valid.

[50:32] Uh, number four,

[50:34] strict application of the zoning

[50:36] ordinance will constitute an unnecessary

[50:38] hardship if it's applied to this

[50:41] property. Mr. England,

[50:44] >> I don't say hardship.

[50:47] >> Mr. ceramic.

[50:51] The unnecessary hardship is that for

[50:56] some bizarre reason, it's not zoomed

[50:58] properly to let it be used for what

[51:00] everything around it is used for.

[51:03] So, I think that one's met. Number five,

[51:08] uh, the approval does not interfere

[51:10] substantially with the comprehensive

[51:12] plan,

[51:14] Mr. Eagland. No, it it does not

[51:16] interfere point,

[51:18] >> Mr. Amik. I agree.

[51:21] And the comprehensive plan is partly

[51:24] that document and partly the list of

[51:26] uses and partly where it is.

[51:31] So, I think that one's met.

[51:34] Okay, we have a motion.

[51:37] Make a motion we accept

[51:40] BZ

[51:41] U-26-5.

[51:44] [music]

[51:46] >> Second. Think we have a roll call?

[51:50] >> Of course. Scott Baldwin.

[51:52] >> Yes.

[51:52] >> Carl England.

[51:53] >> Yes.

[51:53] >> Braining.

[51:54] >> Yes.

[51:56] >> And that concludes our

[52:00] list of items.

[52:02] Miss Williams, is there anything I have

[52:04] forgotten?

[52:04] >> No, there is not. I was just going to

[52:06] [music] note that originally um I think

[52:08] it was because of holidays in September

[52:11] and multiple meetings getting bumped.

[52:14] Originally we were advertised on a

[52:16] Thursday or Tuesday in September. It was

[52:18] revertised as September 14th because

[52:21] nobody was in this room. So we kept our

[52:23] same second Monday schedule. Um so that

[52:26] is noted. It has been readvertised with

[52:28] paper and you know through those

[52:30] channels. [music] Uh but just want to

[52:31] note that in case you had an original

[52:33] schedule.

[52:35] >> Okay.

[52:36] >> Yep.

[52:38] >> Very good. Well,

[52:40] >> that concludes everything. Motion to

[52:42] adjurnn.

[52:43] >> So move.

[52:44] >> All in favor say I.

[52:46] >> I. Post. No. We are ajourned.

[52:56] » [music]

City of Madison Board of Zoning Appeals Meeting- August 10, 2026

Transcript