[0:23] All right. Hello everybody. Uh, thank

[0:24] you for taking time out of your Tuesday

[0:26] evening to join us for tonight's Burough

[0:28] Council meeting. I'm Council President

[0:30] Brennan Phillips and Mayor Papadopoulos.

[0:32] Would you please lead us in the

[0:33] invocation?

[0:41] As we begin tonight's meeting, let us

[0:43] take a moment to reflect on the

[0:45] responsibility we share to serve our

[0:47] community with fairness, patience, and

[0:49] good judgment. As another school year

[0:52] gets underway, we wish the children of

[0:53] our community a year filled with

[0:55] learning, friendship, growth, and

[0:57] opportunity. We also recognize the

[0:59] teachers, staff, parents, and families

[1:01] who support them throughout the year.

[1:04] We ask for continued safety and

[1:05] protection from our police, for our

[1:07] police officers, first responders, and

[1:09] all those who work each day to keep our

[1:11] community safe. We also give thanks for

[1:13] our burough employees and all they do,

[1:15] often behind the scenes in service to

[1:17] our residents. May we be guide May we be

[1:20] guided tonight by wisdom, understanding,

[1:22] and respect for one another. May our

[1:24] discussions be thoughtful, our

[1:26] disagreements respectful, and our

[1:27] decisions always made with the best

[1:29] interests of our community in mind.

[1:31] Amen.

[1:32] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

[1:35] United States of America and to the

[1:37] republic for which it stands, one nation

[1:40] under God, indivisible, liberty and

[1:43] justice for all.

[1:47] » All right, roll call. Uh, as I

[1:49] mentioned, I'm Council President

[1:50] Phillips, Council Vice President Warner,

[1:53] Council Member Bones.

[1:55] He's joining us via phone, I believe, so

[1:58] hopefully he'll be able to hear us. Uh,

[2:00] council member Frederick

[2:01] >> here.

[2:01] >> Council member Coons

[2:02] >> here.

[2:03] >> Council member Neim

[2:04] >> here.

[2:04] >> Council member Rashetti

[2:05] >> here.

[2:06] >> And Mayor Papadopoulos

[2:07] >> here.

[2:07] >> All right. Announcements. Anyone

[2:09] recording the meeting is asked to

[2:10] announce so at this time in accordance

[2:12] with resolution number 875. Uh, you are

[2:14] permitted to record. We just need to let

[2:16] people know and the bureau will be uh

[2:18] recording for the purposes of not only

[2:20] streaming it but also putting it on the

[2:22] burough's website. Do I have anybody

[2:24] recording?

[2:25] All right. And just so that you're

[2:26] aware, impromptu recording may occur at

[2:29] any time. Um, resolution number 875 also

[2:32] establishes the con protocol for burough

[2:34] council meetings. Uh,

[2:37] for those of you who haven't been here

[2:38] before, this isn't a place for

[2:40] screaming, carrying on, yelling

[2:42] profanity. At least everybody, you know,

[2:45] act like you're in a place where

[2:48] everybody can be respected. All right.

[2:50] Uh, you'll have three minutes to make

[2:52] public comment. uh the period for public

[2:55] comment in the beginning is for anything

[2:57] that is not an agenda item and then for

[2:59] the various agenda items, you will have

[3:01] another opportunity to make public

[3:02] comment. All right? So, if there's

[3:03] something that you see on the agenda,

[3:06] save that for when the agenda item comes

[3:07] around. Okay?

[3:09] Uh a reminder that public comment is a

[3:11] time to bring comments to council, not a

[3:13] time for questions and answers. So, if

[3:15] you have questions about a particular

[3:16] topic, uh we might not be able to answer

[3:18] it right on the spot. And I recommend

[3:20] that you go to Burough Administration.

[3:22] They have office hours and you can speak

[3:23] to them at any time on any topic. Okay.

[3:26] Uh join the Malvin Environmental

[3:28] Advisory Council for a guided migratory

[3:31] birdwalk at the Malvin Retreat House on

[3:33] September 12th at 8 a.m. Uh registration

[3:36] is required on malvinourn.org.

[3:39] >> People can park here. I think we'll walk

[3:40] over from

[3:41] >> Okay. And parking is available at uh

[3:43] Burough Hall here. Uh, and Chief

[3:45] Marcelli will participate in the third

[3:46] annual cheers to CDC, the battle of the

[3:48] badges event benefiting the crime

[3:50] centers vict crime victim centers of

[3:52] Chester County on September 17th from

[3:54] 5:00 to 8:00 p.m. at Bellefor Property

[3:56] Restoration. Uh, it was a great event.

[3:58] Uh, I attended last year as did a number

[4:01] of members of council and I believe the

[4:03] chief uh was the highest earning uh

[4:07] police chief for the entire uh event.

[4:09] So,

[4:10] >> and we'd like to keep that going In

[4:12] that vein, there is a ticket for each

[4:15] council member and the mayor, um, Sylvia

[4:17] Nicole at the door for you.

[4:19] >> Sounds good. And good luck to the chief.

[4:23] Uh, on Friday, September 18th from 5:00

[4:25] to 8:30 is the craft and merkantile

[4:27] event, uh, security night market

[4:30] celebrating local makers and artisans

[4:32] alongside live music, food, and drink.

[4:34] And it'll take place at Burke Park. And

[4:36] it's one of our community's best events.

[4:38] So, I hope to see you all out there.

[4:41] Uh, PY Battlefield Heritage Day will be

[4:43] held on Sunday, September 26 from

[4:44] [clears throat] 11:00 a.m. to 4 pm. Uh,

[4:46] it should be fun. So, I hope to see you

[4:48] guys out there, too. Parks and Wreck is

[4:50] hosting a family movie night on

[4:52] September 26th at 7:30 p.m. at Burke

[4:55] Park featuring the film Sarah's Oil.

[4:57] Malvin Burough will participate in the

[4:59] domestic violence center of Chester

[5:01] County's Paint the Town Purple awareness

[5:03] event uh for the month of October. And

[5:05] then, please also visit the Burough's

[5:07] website regularly for upcoming community

[5:08] events. Uh next we're going to move on

[5:10] to the approval of the agenda. Uh we

[5:12] have the PMA here. Uh and they would

[5:15] like to discuss the heritage center at

[5:17] the pale memorial grounds. Uh Mr.

[5:19] Ortner, who's been our liaison to the

[5:20] PMA, has requested uh since some of the

[5:23] members of the PMA might not be able to

[5:24] stay the whole meeting that he be moved

[5:26] to the top of the agenda under council

[5:28] business. And I think that's a good

[5:29] idea. So, uh, with that, I'd like to

[5:31] approve the agenda, uh, but move, uh,

[5:35] the Paley Memorial Association up to the

[5:37] first item under council business. So,

[5:40] with that said, do I have a motion?

[5:41] >> So, move.

[5:42] >> Second.

[5:43] >> All in favor?

[5:44] >> I. All right. Motion passes. Next up is

[5:46] public comment. If anybody would care to

[5:48] make public com comment on a topic that

[5:50] doesn't appear on the agenda, you may do

[5:52] so now. Uh, Mr. Petty John.

[5:57] All

[6:06] right, Betty John

[6:08] Street. Um, now that we [laughter]

[6:12] now that we've moved the uh uh meeting

[6:15] on from Zoom to YouTube, um, a couple neighbors were asking about how

[6:20] to ask a make a comment or, you know,

[6:24] participate in a meeting since it's on

[6:26] Zoom. I don't know if we have that

[6:27] worked out yet or not. So, that was my

[6:30] curiosity

[6:31] question. Maybe send something out.

[6:33] Thanks, guys.

[6:34] >> Thank you. And as I mentioned before, if

[6:36] you have any questions or comments,

[6:37] you're always welcome to either email uh

[6:39] malvin.org or stop in to the office to

[6:42] discuss with the administration. Mr.

[6:44] Buckley, would you care to make public

[6:45] comment?

[6:46] >> Yeah.

[6:48] >> Thank everybody for coming out here

[6:49] tonight.

[6:51] >> Okay, let's get let's get down to

[6:53] business now. Um, as you see, I came in

[6:56] there wasn't no agendas.

[6:59] We're getting paid to do that. What's

[7:01] the big idea about making some instead

[7:04] of a few? Cuz you don't know when it's

[7:06] going to be crowded or not. That's okay.

[7:08] You don't have to answer me. I know what

[7:09] I'm saying. Um, another thing is these

[7:14] builders come into our town and these

[7:16] taxpayers don't get nothing when they

[7:18] want something w. They got to get a

[7:20] permit for a shed and all. If you want a

[7:22] shed, you should have a shed. Everybody

[7:24] had a shed back in the day, but the

[7:26] builders get away with what they want

[7:28] and stuff. Wait,

[7:30] um 162 Church Street and 156 Church

[7:35] Street across the street from me and two

[7:37] over, three over. Um if you get a if you

[7:41] got a permit, you have to post it so

[7:43] people in the street can see it. Prove

[7:45] me wrong if I'm not. Um over next to

[7:49] Vicky Sharps, I was over that way. Uh

[7:52] two houses going up this way. They did a

[7:56] roof. And how come I didn't see no

[7:57] permit? And I had to get permit when I

[7:59] did my roofs and stuff on good work. I'm

[8:01] tired of coming down here when somebody

[8:04] like somebody's helping somebody on low

[8:06] income, poor people or somebody that

[8:09] needs help and they're improving their

[8:10] property. That's not right to nail them.

[8:13] They nailed them over $300 the first

[8:15] one.

[8:16] >> Okay. We'll keep on rolling with you so

[8:18] I don't lose my time. Uh,

[8:24] okay. Um,

[8:28] traffic light. I'm not going to keep

[8:31] bringing this up. I won't keep bringing

[8:32] it up. I mean, till I get one there

[8:34] because the bur can have one and it

[8:36] won't cost enough, but they don't want

[8:38] it. So, I'm working on it. Get go higher

[8:40] up. We're getting that light there

[8:41] before a kid gets hit. You talk about

[8:44] safety in this bird, you're going to

[8:46] wait till a kid gets hit. That's what it

[8:48] is. An older person going out for

[8:50] dinner. I hope it ain't none of your

[8:52] kids are you.

[8:54] Uh

[8:58] oh. I like to see the police once in a

[9:00] while. We talk how great they are, but

[9:02] it'd be nice to see them. Oh, we got all

[9:05] these police and we just hire more three

[9:07] part-times and another full-time.

[9:10] you it'd be nice to see them because the

[9:12] taxpayers pay their salary and all and

[9:14] everything that goes on in this bur

[9:16] don't go nowhere but here you don't make

[9:19] you don't get down to do your job you

[9:21] know so I'm going to keep you know thank

[9:24] you all right just to uh clarify some of

[9:28] these points uh I see the police

[9:31] multiple times a day every day I think

[9:33] we've got a great police force I don't

[9:35] think that statement is accurate

[9:36] secondly we've discussed the traffic

[9:38] light at King and Bridge many times

[9:39] We've studied the intersection. You know

[9:41] this, John. Uh, and the chief has

[9:43] recommended that we don't put a light in

[9:45] there. Our traffic engineer has

[9:46] recommended that as well. We believe

[9:48] putting a light in that intersection

[9:49] will make the intersection more

[9:51] dangerous. Everyone needs to stop at a

[9:53] stop sign. Not everyone uh when the

[9:56] light turns yellow, people start

[9:57] speeding, right? No one stopping at a

[9:59] green light. We believe the safest

[10:00] solution, and we've told you this many

[10:02] times, is to keep the stop signs where

[10:04] they are. Lastly, you did a great job

[10:07] tattlettailing on your fellow residents,

[10:09] right, with all your complaints. But

[10:11] what disgust me, one of the people

[10:13] you're attacking is someone who just

[10:14] lost their husband a couple months ago.

[10:16] She's a widow and she's got a young son

[10:18] and you're beating up on them when

[10:20] they're down.

[10:22] Your neighbor right across the street.

[10:24] Okay. Enough.

[10:28] Well, if I may um just um I know that

[10:35] this hasn't just just to clarify on the

[10:39] building permit issue and I think Dan

[10:42] will tell me if I'm wrong. When the

[10:45] uniform commercial or the uniform

[10:47] construction code was adopted, the rule

[10:50] was changed so that a building permit

[10:54] needs to be on site, but it no longer

[10:57] has to be posted

[10:59] because for various reasons, they get

[11:01] damaged. Um, people who don't need to

[11:06] know anything except that a permit has

[11:08] been issued. Um, so in and we I believe

[11:12] we changed the burough ordinance. You

[11:15] don't remember? Yeah, I'm pretty sure

[11:16] that it's no longer required to be

[11:20] posted, but it does have to be on site.

[11:23] >> No.

[11:26] >> All right. Would anyone else care to

[11:27] make public comment?

[11:29] All right. Uh, let's move on to the

[11:33] professionals report. Uh, Wendy, would

[11:34] you care to give the soliciters report?

[11:36] >> Sure.

[11:42] So, um Scott and I have continued to

[11:45] work on various um ordinances

[11:49] that um like the the dog ordinance, food

[11:52] truck ordinance that are that are in

[11:54] various stages of approval.

[11:57] Scott has been monitoring andor

[12:00] participating in the various

[12:03] um lawsuits that are pending.

[12:07] um a as well as um

[12:11] monitoring

[12:13] and participating to the extent

[12:14] necessary regarding the um home rule

[12:18] charter amendment petitions.

[12:21] We both keep ch uh tabs on the status of

[12:26] subdivision and land development

[12:27] projects and participate in um those as

[12:32] needed, drafting resolutions or giving

[12:35] advice. Scott spent uh quite a bit of

[12:38] time with past couple of months with the

[12:42] trash bids, developing the packages,

[12:46] going through the process, reviewing the

[12:48] packages. [snorts]

[12:50] Um he also has been involved in zoning

[12:53] ordinance enforcement matters and right

[12:56] to know requests. Um I've been

[12:59] continuing work on the um zoning and

[13:03] subdivision land development ordinance

[13:05] rewrite and also um I uh keep track or

[13:12] keep tabs on things like developments in

[13:16] the data center

[13:19] um legislation or lack thereof and other

[13:22] state um legislative initiatives.

[13:27] So that's our report. Thank you. Uh Dan,

[13:29] would you care to give the engineers

[13:30] report? Sure.

[13:31] >> Um [clears throat] for the uh past month

[13:33] here, uh various uh permit plan reviews

[13:35] and subdivision land development

[13:37] reviews, including the two on the agenda

[13:39] for tonight. Um for public works

[13:41] projects, uh we're still working on um

[13:44] getting some uh sewer repairs done for

[13:46] uh 2026, including the Minor Hill uh

[13:49] sewer meter um uh which we have some uh

[13:52] proposals to uh repair that meter. Um

[13:55] and also uh some additional work on

[13:58] North Warren Avenue and Old Lincoln

[13:59] Highway. Um the paving program here for

[14:03] 2026

[14:04] um coordinating with the contractor

[14:06] which uh work is scheduled for probably

[14:08] the week of September 14th or the 21st

[14:12] um for the um uh paving of half of

[14:15] Pennsylvania Avenue from the Cold Sack

[14:18] out um halfway out um through the uh to

[14:22] North Warren. Um

[14:25] the uh North Warren uh Avenue stream

[14:27] bank stabilization project here. Um we

[14:30] have uh oversaw the construction of that stream bank stabilization work is

[14:34] complete. Um we still have um tree

[14:37] plantings and live state plantings uh

[14:39] scheduled for the fall. Uh but all the

[14:41] stream bank channel work has uh has been

[14:43] completed. Um and uh the we had a couple

[14:46] week detour um uh established during

[14:49] that process during the daytime and

[14:51] that's all been uh completed and taken

[14:52] down. I finally got the signs down. They

[14:55] took a little while to get down. Um the

[14:58] Randolph Woods project here, we're

[14:59] overseeing the uh phase one construction

[15:02] improvements. Uh the boardwalk has been

[15:04] completed. Uh the bridge should be

[15:06] completed this week and uh they're going

[15:09] to be moving over to the pavilion uh

[15:11] here next um for that project. Um, so

[15:14] we've been working with the contractor

[15:15] on uh on overseeing that work. Um, and

[15:19] also been working with DCNR to um uh do

[15:23] the phase 1A grant contract closeouts.

[15:27] Um, the uh First Avenue um handicap

[15:31] ramp, the the building here, the Mel

[15:32] Burough uh building here, we're going to

[15:34] be replacing the um uh the sidewalk uh

[15:38] right in front of the building uh with a

[15:40] handicap ramp. Um we're hoping to get a

[15:43] schedule for that. They were potentially

[15:44] going to start here this week. It's not

[15:46] doesn't look like that's going to

[15:47] happen. Um so uh probably uh within next

[15:50] week or two uh they'll be out to uh to

[15:53] replace that. Uh just for everybody's

[15:55] knowledge on that one. We're going to um

[15:57] we're going to the access to the front

[16:00] door will be maintained um for um for

[16:03] people that need to get to the elevator.

[16:06] We're going to look to uh um divert the

[16:08] majority of traffic over to the side um

[16:11] side uh side entrance in here for uh for

[16:14] when that works being done around when

[16:15] the contractor is working just to avoid

[16:18] conflicting with the uh the um uh the um

[16:21] the construction workers and the access

[16:23] in and out. But if you need to get in to

[16:26] use the front door, that will be open.

[16:28] Um so we'll set up some uh barricades

[16:30] and signs associated with that work. Um

[16:32] the pump house uh I've been trying to uh

[16:35] to consult with that um which is on the

[16:37] agenda tonight which I'll defer to uh to

[16:40] that point. Um the truck signage uh

[16:43] ordinance was passed as you guys know in

[16:45] your past or uh past um meetings. We've

[16:47] uh been working with uh Bowman and we do

[16:50] have the traffic pendot traffic signal

[16:53] uh approval um from uh from PennDOT. So,

[16:56] I'll be working with public works staff

[16:58] to uh to uh order signs and get the um

[17:02] final uh that implementation of that um

[17:05] truck signage up here shortly. [snorts]

[17:07] Um but we just got here the end of last

[17:09] week the um signed uh signed approval

[17:11] from uh from Pendot.

[17:14] The um I guess that's the uh bulk of my

[17:17] uh public works projects have been

[17:18] working on.

[17:19] >> All right. Thank you question.

[17:22] >> Can you just a rough order of magnitude?

[17:24] What's the timeline from the approval to

[17:27] getting the signs actually up?

[17:29] >> Um, so I had uh um we have to order the

[17:32] signs and I don't know what the time

[17:34] frame that would be to to to have those

[17:36] signs ordered, but basically we wanted

[17:37] to get all through the pendot approval.

[17:39] Um we're going to I told public works

[17:41] staff here last week that I would we'd

[17:43] sit down and go through and make sure we have all the right sizes and

[17:47] everything ordered. So hopefully I don't

[17:48] know if I'll maybe have a chance this

[17:50] week to to schedule time to stop over to

[17:52] see them and go through that. So we can

[17:54] have a a full list of signs to be ready

[17:56] to be ordered by Christmas.

[17:58] >> Uh I I would I I mean I would anticipate

[18:01] they're all standard signs, so they're

[18:02] not I mean other than the two signs as

[18:04] you enter the burrow on King Street on

[18:06] either side. Um uh but I would

[18:08] anticipate it be could be complete this

[18:10] year.

[18:10] >> Halloween sounds great.

[18:12] >> Y got it.

[18:13] >> Hey Dan, on the uh Randolph Woods, the

[18:16] new trail now the bridge looks like it's

[18:19] pretty much getting done. When do you

[18:21] think that trail will be really

[18:24] available for people to uh to use?

[18:26] >> People are using it now. We haven't shut

[18:28] it down during construction. People are

[18:29] out there for it now. Um they were going

[18:32] to try to get all of the trail work kind

[18:35] of cleaned up um and accessible here u

[18:39] before they moved over to the nature

[18:40] play area. They wanted to kind of button

[18:42] all that up. Um, so, uh, I'm hoping here

[18:44] within the next week or two, they'll

[18:46] have the bulk of that kind of pulled

[18:47] together for, um, that loop trail to be all accessible and all the

[18:52] construction equipment out of the way.

[18:53] >> Yeah. Thank you.

[18:54] >> Y

[18:56] >> All right. Thank you. And, uh, we're

[18:58] going to skip the manager's report

[18:59] tonight because, frankly, Nicole's been

[19:01] too busy to create a report. So, she'll

[19:02] be giving the report next month. So,

[19:04] it's going to be extra long, I'm sure.

[19:07] Um, let's move up to the Burough Council

[19:09] subcommittees. Uh, finance

[19:10] administration. Uh they will next meet

[19:12] on Thursday, September 17th. Have you

[19:14] guys I don't believe we've met since our

[19:16] last meeting. Um public safety uh when

[19:20] we Okay. Uh when we last met, uh we

[19:23] discussed walkability, uh crosswalks on

[19:26] King Street, things of that nature. And

[19:27] we'll next meet on Monday, September

[19:29] 28th, and uh public works.

[19:32] >> Yes, we met this week on August 25th. We

[19:35] discussed most of the stuff that Dan

[19:37] just went through. We also talked about

[19:39] the King Street lights, the King Street

[19:41] crosswalks, uh the public works garage

[19:44] remodel, potential fence down at the

[19:46] public works building, and the new trash

[19:49] cans. So, I just wanted to give props to

[19:50] our uh public works guys for installing

[19:53] the new trash and recycle bins in Burke

[19:55] Park. They look great. Thank you guys.

[19:57] We are meeting again on Tuesday,

[19:58] September 22nd.

[20:00] >> Thank you. Uh let's move on to council

[20:02] business. uh to consider the application

[20:05] of the Paley Memorial Association for

[20:07] preliminary preliminary/final

[20:10] land development for the Heritage Center

[20:11] on Paley Memorial Grant. Uh Dan, I know

[20:14] you did a lot of uh work with this

[20:16] group. Uh I noticed that uh they're

[20:19] requesting a couple of waiverss. Uh do

[20:21] you want to walk us through those?

[20:24] >> Um sure. Do um do you want the the folks

[20:27] on them to give an overview of the

[20:29] project to handle? ask Frank to speak in

[20:31] a little bit, but I just want to make

[20:32] sure that we all know what it is that

[20:33] we're discussing and what they're

[20:35] requesting. Uh, and I noticed in your

[20:38] report that there was a number of items.

[20:41] I don't know if this was the final one,

[20:43] but there were some documents that you

[20:44] were still anticipating uh from this

[20:47] group.

[20:48] >> Uh, yes. So, um, so I have an August

[20:50] 14th, 2026 review letter here. Um, and,

[20:53] uh, that letter does outline, uh, the

[20:55] number of outstanding items. The

[20:56] majority of the items are planning

[20:58] related items um for PL um I'm sorry

[21:01] plan content um nothing critical from a

[21:04] uh construction perspective they have to

[21:07] uh um do some odds and ends but I I'll

[21:09] you want me to kind of run through just

[21:11] the the key items that are related to

[21:13] the waiverss you want me to start with

[21:14] >> I I would start with waivers and then if

[21:16] council has any questions about what

[21:18] that means uh answer

[21:21] >> so um the the uh the waivers waiverss

[21:26] are going to uh they don't um there were

[21:28] a couple waivers that they had requested

[21:30] related to primary final. Uh we were

[21:32] determining this project to be a minor

[21:33] plan. So they don't need a preliminary

[21:35] final waiver. They're able to move right

[21:37] to final plan. Um assuming that uh

[21:40] everything goes according with the

[21:42] waiverss and they don't need to do any

[21:43] street widening. There'll be a minor

[21:44] plan. They don't need to or the fi

[21:47] fourstep design process. Um the uh I'm

[21:50] just running through which were the

[21:52] waiverss here for this um track

[21:54] boundary.

[21:55] Um

[21:58] a waiver request. Um so section 503 of

[22:01] the ordinance requires that any new

[22:03] subdivision is required to widen uh

[22:05] public streets and or dedicate

[22:07] additional rightways. Um uh this is a

[22:10] small little project inside the memorial

[22:11] ground there. And uh so they were asking

[22:13] a waiver not to have to uh do any

[22:15] roadway improvements out on the public

[22:17] streets um for uh for that. They uh

[22:21] requesting a waiver to not install curbs

[22:24] along all public streets. As you're well

[22:26] aware, you're able to require uh

[22:28] property owners to install curb um

[22:30] during a subdivision of land

[22:31] development. Same thing with sidewalk.

[22:33] Um so they're asking for a waiver not to

[22:35] do sidewalk around the perimeter. They

[22:37] have a very large frontage along Wayne

[22:39] um Monument Avenue and Sugartown. Um and

[22:43] so they're asking waiverss for both the

[22:44] curbs and the sidewalks for those areas.

[22:47] Um

[22:50] see I think that might be sewage

[22:52] disposal. No waiverss for that. um water

[22:56] supply

[22:57] electric service and then a waiver for

[23:00] um installing uh street trees um along

[23:03] the property frontage again along Wayne

[23:05] Monument and uh Sugartown um and they

[23:08] obviously uh the the shade tree

[23:10] commission supported that waiver. They

[23:11] did come in and meet with the shade tree

[23:12] commission um and that was they

[23:14] definitely supported that. The shade

[23:16] tree commission in the bureau uh works

[23:17] with the the PMA grow folks for tree

[23:19] plantings every every year also. Yeah.

[23:21] Good.

[23:22] >> Dan, being as this is the first time the

[23:24] historic ordinance has come into play,

[23:27] is that going to require a waiver? The

[23:29] historic commission recommended treating

[23:31] it as a tier three versus a tier one.

[23:34] Will that need to be a waiver?

[23:36] >> Um, I don't I to be honest with you, um

[23:39] I I that's in I don't think that's in

[23:42] the that's not in the subdivision land

[23:44] development ordinance. So that's not a

[23:46] waiver. That's not a waiver uh an item

[23:49] for a waiver for that.

[23:50] >> Okay. um still has to be reviewed.

[23:53] >> Yeah.

[23:53] >> With that ordinance.

[23:55] >> Yeah. So that that that that's a that's a standalone ordinance,

[23:58] correct? I

[23:59] >> think so.

[24:00] >> Um so the enforcability here, I'm going

[24:01] to ask Wendy on that one here. The

[24:03] enforcability of the standalone

[24:05] ordinance. It's not a subdivisional land

[24:06] development, so it won't be a waiver. Um

[24:08] how's that how's that process worked?

[24:11] >> I'd have to look at it. I I don't know

[24:16] off the top of my head, but this is um

[24:19] an accessory structure also. Um so, uh I

[24:27] if if it does require a waiver, it seems

[24:30] like they they could add that to the

[24:34] list, but I don't know without looking

[24:36] at it.

[24:40] » Okay. Are there any other questions from

[24:41] council? I I have a question not related

[24:44] to waiverss. Um so Dan, it looked like

[24:48] the square footage of the building was

[24:50] maybe just under what would require um a

[24:54] full storm water management plan. I

[24:56] guess it's some it's the it's in that

[24:58] middle range of

[24:59] >> they're they're required to do a

[25:01] simplified simplified approach and they

[25:02] are proposing a seepage bed. Um the bed

[25:05] was uh the last application that came in

[25:08] showed two beds. Um the engineer put it

[25:11] in as one uh right now and it's a little

[25:14] bit under size. So they uh they have to

[25:15] my note my note for that was to increase

[25:17] the size of it to manage that uh that additional runoff.

[25:21] >> So simplified does that mean that it's

[25:23] only for um the over between nothing and

[25:30] what is it 2500 square feet or something

[25:32] like that?

[25:32] >> Yeah. So, the simplified approach is

[25:34] between um uh 400 and um I think it's

[25:38] 1,000 square ft. And then everything

[25:40] above 1,000 ends up being uh requires a

[25:44] full storm water designed. Um I believe

[25:47] is I believe the threshold is 1 1,000

[25:49] square ft for uh for the burrow here. Um

[25:52] and uh and they were under that

[25:53] threshold to to be able to do the

[25:55] simplified approach. and simplified

[25:56] approach is is basically uh managing um

[26:00] the uh the the 1-in runoff uh event from

[26:03] uh for those impervious coverage. Um so they

[26:07] basically that's that's what they were

[26:08] proposing to do. So because I I'm pretty

[26:12] sure that in the new zoning we have made

[26:14] it now if there's disturbance that they

[26:16] have to apply it that it we're not we

[26:18] didn't maintain that sort of

[26:20] intermediate um

[26:21] >> that's in this that's in the storm water

[26:23] management ordinance the new zoning the

[26:25] new zoning and subdivision ordinances

[26:27] have not did not address the storm water

[26:29] ordinance that still stays as the uh the

[26:31] model ordinance uh from the county which

[26:34] the bureau is more restrictive than the

[26:36] county model ordinance county model

[26:38] ordinance is The minimum threshold was a

[26:41] thousand square feet and you don't have

[26:42] to any 10,000 square feet unless you

[26:44] don't have to do anything. The burrow

[26:46] had decided years ago that we were going

[26:48] to make that threshold 400 square feet

[26:50] before when we have to kick in storm

[26:51] water.

[26:52] >> Oh, okay. So, that's why we had talked

[26:54] about looking at our storm water

[26:55] ordinance once we finish the zoning to

[26:58] make sure that we're comfortable with

[26:59] that. Correct.

[27:00] >> MS and and right now we're we exceed the

[27:03] minimum requirements necessary from the county as as it's written

[27:06] today. Right.

[27:10] Any other questions from council before

[27:12] I ask Frank to

[27:14] come up? All right. Uh, Mr. Orner, would

[27:16] you care to say a few words about the

[27:18] project and maybe answer some questions

[27:20] from council?

[27:21] >> Just a few.

[27:25] >> Uh, good evening. First of all, I'd like

[27:27] to mention uh we have member a number or

[27:31] a number of our board members here this

[27:33] evening. And if I could just mention who

[27:36] they are. Uh Jim Fiscus. Uh if you'd

[27:39] stand up when I give your name so people

[27:41] can see who that person is. Jim uh and

[27:45] Bill Shoemaker next to him. Joe Boris

[27:48] next to Bill.

[27:50] Uh Chad Darlington.

[27:55] Jay Kappa.

[27:57] Anybody else here? Oh, Hugo. Hugo

[28:01] Schmidt back there in the back.

[28:06] Okay. and and I asked them to come in

[28:08] case they would like to say something

[28:10] with regard to the whole thing that I

[28:12] maybe left out. Um, okay. I I was up in

[28:17] here today and I gave Sylvie some

[28:20] information I'd like to go through at

[28:22] this point. This is new information as

[28:25] of today. Really, I picked up the stuff

[28:29] from the architect today. And is there

[28:33] any Well, okay. I guess that's the

[28:35] brightest one over there.

[28:38] Yeah.

[28:40] But, uh, this represents the, uh,

[28:44] heritage center that we anticipate being

[28:46] able to put in. Uh, and it's going to

[28:49] go. If you go back to the first one,

[28:51] Sylvie,

[28:53] uh, can you can you sharpen that up at

[28:56] all or make it larger?

[28:59] >> That's that's better. [laughter]

[29:01] Thank you.

[29:03] Um you'll you'll take you'll you'll

[29:06] notice that the building uh is

[29:11] very near where that grandstand is and

[29:15] we're not looking to make any changes as

[29:17] far as a grandstand is concerned and

[29:19] which gets to maybe Lynn's Lynn's point

[29:22] on the historical uh commission. Um, and

[29:26] we're going to be moving it a couple

[29:27] feet back of where that lowest stone is

[29:33] uh on that um on either side. Uh, by the

[29:38] way, the grandstand is 18 and 1/2 ft on

[29:41] each of three sides. It's a three-sided

[29:44] square, if you will. And so on the on

[29:48] the side, there is no there is no uh uh

[29:53] stone or railroad tie. That's where

[29:55] we're going to be putting the um the

[29:58] heritage center. And one of the things

[30:01] that we need to do in order for this to

[30:04] be done, this was approved by the the

[30:07] shade tree commission, which Brandon you

[30:09] mentioned before, and that is there's an

[30:11] oak tree that's relatively close to

[30:14] that. And this is something that we

[30:17] would we would have to take down the oak

[30:20] tree and um but we would replace it with

[30:25] three other trees uh that are colonial

[30:28] in nature

[30:29] and um so that's again what we're

[30:34] looking to do. Um, we had talked to the

[30:38] Shadri Commission and actually we met

[30:40] out there and uh while there uh we got

[30:46] uh they got Joe Bones on the phone and

[30:49] uh as as an arborist is no longer on the

[30:51] shade tree commission but of course he's

[30:52] on Burough Council and I'm hoping that

[30:55] Joe can hear me at this point. Uh but uh

[30:59] that being the case, that was that's a

[31:02] black oak tree that we're talking about

[31:04] and it's part of the red oak family and

[31:07] that um apparently there's a a disease

[31:11] going around with regard to red oaks.

[31:14] So, uh, Joe felt that by putting in the

[31:19] foundation out there, it might may

[31:22] disturb some of the roots and, uh,

[31:24] affect the longevity, if you will, of

[31:27] that particular black oak. So, bottom

[31:30] line is they they came back and said,

[31:32] "Okay, let's well, if it's going to be

[31:36] uh dying off in a few years, the best

[31:40] thing to do is take it down now before

[31:41] we get the heritage center up." And um

[31:45] so again we look we're looking to

[31:48] replace it with three trees in a similar

[31:52] area. Some trees have already been taken

[31:55] down years ago because of the uh because

[31:58] of the uh diseases. And uh so uh that

[32:03] was the first slide. Now Sylvie, if you

[32:06] want to go back or there we go.

[32:09] Okay. This is now you have an individual

[32:13] walking on the pathway. We're we're

[32:16] looking to go into

[32:18] uh the the heritage center on the north

[32:21] side. So uh and that's what that's what

[32:26] you would see if you will uh from the

[32:30] road the the

[32:33] uh road that's of course going through

[32:36] the going through the park. facility. If

[32:39] you go to the next one. Okay, this is

[32:42] the front entrance.

[32:44] So, you can see where

[32:47] uh the doors there's a door on either

[32:49] side of the glass window. And that door,

[32:53] the door on the right is the entrance.

[32:55] Door on the left is the exit. And

[32:57] there's a uh as you can see, a porch

[33:00] there. And that's about 8 ft uh in

[33:06] width and about uh 7 7 1/2 ft

[33:13] from the cement to the the beam

[33:18] um and obviously going in. Okay, next

[33:22] one. And by the way, I have copies for

[33:26] you so you can take it home and look at

[33:28] them. This is okay. This is now looking

[33:32] into the the center. And if you take a

[33:35] look at the roof,

[33:37] this is where the timber part comes into

[33:38] play. And the timber part

[33:42] uh it's going to be I think it's going

[33:45] to be very very well done. And we're

[33:48] looking at it as a now on the sides on

[33:52] the walls. We're not seeing timber. It's

[33:56] really going to depend on the money that

[33:58] we are able to generate for this entire

[34:02] project. So, um the more money we are

[34:06] able to generate, I think the better

[34:08] it's going to look because we can do

[34:10] timber throughout

[34:12] and uh but it'll be something similar to

[34:14] what you'll see there on the on the uh

[34:18] on the roof. The window there on the

[34:21] right side is the window that's going to

[34:23] be looking out the south side

[34:26] um of the park of the building and it'll

[34:31] be looking onto the grave site. It'll

[34:34] you'll be able to see the grave site

[34:36] from there and also uh looking at on a

[34:40] different angle you'll be able to see

[34:41] the monuments that are on the right hand

[34:43] side. The monument that's there in the

[34:45] middle is the monument that we're

[34:47] looking to move from the grave site to

[34:51] the u to the center and the center. And

[34:55] the reason for that is the the the u

[35:00] the monument itself is two over 210.

[35:04] It'll be 210 years old next year. And uh

[35:08] it's it's gone through a lot of

[35:09] weathering over the years. And this will

[35:13] protect it going forward, but we're

[35:16] going to replace it with another

[35:17] monument very similar to what the

[35:20] monument looked like when it went in. Uh

[35:25] over the years, people have taken little

[35:26] chips off of it and so on and so forth

[35:28] and and uh which whatever however it

[35:32] looks now, that's how it's going to look

[35:35] inside. We're going to have to put some

[35:37] glass around it. um but not like the

[35:41] plexiglass that was on it uh up until

[35:44] recently.

[35:47] And the window on the left is looking

[35:49] out over the pale battlefield.

[35:53] So you have windows on the left looking

[35:55] at the pale battlefield on the right

[35:57] looking out over the grave site. on as

[36:00] you enter, if you're standing by the by

[36:03] the monument and you're looking north,

[36:06] [clears throat] that's that's the the

[36:08] white or the uh glass window that you'll

[36:11] see and you'll be able to see out onto

[36:13] the rest of the grounds.

[36:16] Uh as well as the grounds, the the

[36:19] windows coming in and out.

[36:22] Next one, Silly.

[36:24] Okay. Again, this is now looking at the

[36:30] uh looking at it on the north side. On

[36:32] the left side, that'll be looking north.

[36:35] So, you'll be able to see an awful lot

[36:37] of the area

[36:39] uh outside of the of outside of the uh

[36:43] the building itself, looking both north

[36:46] as well as uh northeast and northwest,

[36:51] looking at the rest of it. And what you

[36:55] don't see and uh are the the as you walk

[36:59] in on the right hand side will be a

[37:04] bathroom restroom and there will be a

[37:07] storage area next to it and

[37:11] um it'll be an ADA restroom.

[37:16] Uh and the storage area is going to be

[37:18] for the pale battlefield primarily to

[37:21] have different artifacts that are that

[37:23] we have that they have. And uh we want

[37:27] to where that where you see the person

[37:30] standing there by the window uh on the

[37:32] east side. We're going to we're looking

[37:34] to have uh some cases that will have the

[37:39] artifacts that again the Paleo

[37:42] battlefield has and those cases can hold

[37:45] the artifacts and there may be some room

[37:47] maybe some some bookshelves. We're

[37:50] looking to have some bookshelves above

[37:51] it. So again depending on what we have

[37:55] to uh show

[38:00] as far as the battle itself is

[38:02] concerned.

[38:04] Um and that's a pretty good I think

[38:07] indication of what the entire

[38:10] um center will be looking like.

[38:14] >> Sounds good. Um does anybody want to ask

[38:18] questions or make comments? Uh I have a

[38:20] few questions and comments myself. Um,

[38:22] do you want I'm going to go first

[38:23] though?

[38:25] Okay. Well, first off, I think it looks

[38:27] great and as you know, I've been, you

[38:29] know, very interested in this and the

[38:30] history of it. Uh, send you some my

[38:32] ideas and renderings. Uh in terms of

[38:37] uh you know that front porch area uh for

[38:41] times when the heritage center is

[38:44] closed, would it make sense to have some

[38:48] uh signage on the outside so that people

[38:50] can read some of the history of the

[38:53] monument of you know the battle without

[38:55] the ability to walk in to the heritage

[38:58] center itself? We are looking to put in

[39:01] put [clears throat]

[39:02] on the outside some signage with regard

[39:04] to that.

[39:05] >> Okay. And then what are the actual hours

[39:08] of the heritage center and how will it

[39:10] be kept open? Will it be done by being

[39:13] staffed or will it be done you know

[39:15] based on certain times a day dawn till

[39:18] dusk? What do you

[39:19] >> dawn to dusk? Excuse me. [clears throat]

[39:22] No. Uh we're looking maybe 10 to 4. I

[39:24] mean some of these things still have to

[39:26] be worked out.

[39:27] >> Okay. But 10 to 4, not every day of the

[39:29] week, but maybe Wednesday to Sunday.

[39:31] >> Okay.

[39:32] >> Uh [clears throat] so Monday and Tuesday

[39:33] wouldn't be open, but Wednesday to

[39:35] Sunday, those are the times that we're

[39:37] looking at, but again, nothing's written

[39:40] in stone.

[39:40] >> Okay.

[39:42] And then,

[39:44] you know, one of the things I did

[39:45] discuss with you before was, you know,

[39:47] we I don't know about all burough

[39:49] council, but I know a number of

[39:50] counselors

[39:52] were hoping that we could get some sort

[39:53] of restrooms that were accessible to the

[39:57] public on from the outside of the

[39:58] building so that we don't have to plop a

[40:02] portaotty on hallowed ground, right?

[40:05] uh so that individuals who are maybe

[40:08] visiting the grave or visiting the

[40:09] battlefield during times that aren't

[40:12] times that the heritage center are open

[40:14] would still be able to use the

[40:15] restrooms. And I'm guessing that you

[40:18] guys thought it wasn't a great idea

[40:20] because you know of the potential for

[40:22] vandalism or graffiti, but I don't know

[40:25] that that's the case with the other

[40:27] restroom by the ball field which is also

[40:28] on the Pale Memorial Association

[40:30] grounds. So what are your your thoughts?

[40:33] And the other thing I was thinking as

[40:35] well is if you were to not have a door

[40:38] to the restroom on the inside, that

[40:40] would give you more space forformational

[40:43] signs and more display cases instead of

[40:45] wasting that space with a door to a

[40:48] restroom. Um, so would you guys be

[40:51] consider consider being open to that?

[40:54] Um, I know in the past we've been from

[40:56] my perspective good partners to the PMA

[40:59] and vice versa. Uh, you know, we

[41:01] maintain some of these grounds. Uh, you

[41:03] know, if you do have a restroom in there

[41:06] during the winter time, in all

[41:07] likelihood, you're going to have to heat

[41:08] it somehow.

[41:10] Is the burrow going to be paying for

[41:11] that energy? I I don't know who

[41:13] currently is paying for the portaotty. I

[41:15] would assume it's the burrow is paying

[41:16] for that portaotty as well.

[41:17] >> The portaotti is on the on the pale

[41:19] battlefield grounds.

[41:20] >> Right. But are you paying for it?

[41:21] >> No, you are.

[41:22] >> We are. Yes.

[41:23] >> Right.

[41:24] >> Because it's on your grounds,

[41:25] >> right?

[41:26] >> It's on the pale battlefield grounds.

[41:28] And because it is, that's another reason

[41:30] why we thought it wasn't necessary to

[41:32] have it because you have the the the

[41:34] porta potty there. The the restroom that

[41:38] you mentioned at the ball field, I don't

[41:40] think that's open during the time when

[41:42] the games are not being played.

[41:44] >> That's a good point. Yeah. Not sure

[41:45] about that.

[41:45] >> So, I think that's the that's going on

[41:48] there. and and obviously when when uh

[41:52] and we're looking to have the the um

[41:56] center

[41:58] uh personed

[42:02] um by an individual every day that it's

[42:06] open.

[42:07] >> Just a a quick note. Um [clears throat]

[42:10] excuse me. Speaking as also a member of

[42:11] the Paley Battlefield Preservation Fund

[42:13] board, it is my understanding that Jim

[42:15] Christ is planning on leaving that

[42:17] portaotti there even with the bathroom

[42:19] that is there um in the the PMA Heritage

[42:22] Center.

[42:24] >> So I don't mean to speak for him, but as

[42:25] far as I know in our meetings, that's

[42:26] what he said,

[42:27] >> right? But I guess my concern is

[42:30] why, you know, if we have this the

[42:33] ability to have a restroom, why would we

[42:35] also want a portaotty and why would we

[42:37] also want to pay for that? And if the

[42:39] burough is considering,

[42:41] you know, in the future installing a

[42:43] restroom,

[42:45] that might be potentially money that we

[42:47] wouldn't necessarily have to donate to

[42:49] the PMA, right? Uh, you know, I want to

[42:52] see the project succeed. I want to see

[42:54] Burough Council be in complete support

[42:56] of it. Uh, and you know, when equipment

[42:59] breaks in when like the playground, when

[43:02] the slide broke, the burrow stepped in

[43:04] and we, you know, fixed that, right? I

[43:06] think we've been pretty good partners

[43:07] and

[43:09] we helped you guys get this grant,

[43:10] right? I don't know if it would have

[43:11] been possible for you to even achieve

[43:12] this grant and now it kind of seems like

[43:16] the residents of the bureau aren't being

[43:18] served as well as they could be if they

[43:20] had the ability to access this and the

[43:22] people who are interested in the history

[43:23] of the town. If people wanted to come

[43:25] visit the battlefield or visit the

[43:28] grave,

[43:30] they might not want to use a portaotti,

[43:31] right? And I don't think it's a good way

[43:33] to honor our patriots by plopping a

[43:35] portaotty on hollow ground. Right.

[43:38] >> Well, agreed. But the portaotti is there

[43:42] at this point. It's been there for a

[43:43] number of years

[43:45] >> and I assume that it's been been

[43:47] utilized. Um, as far as the as far as

[43:50] using this particular restroom as a

[43:54] restroom outside of the hours that were

[43:56] open,

[43:58] that creates a number of issues, I

[44:00] think, from our standpoint. And I know

[44:03] that the people on on Remington, and I

[44:06] don't know if they're

[44:08] >> Yes. Okay. I I think they'll have a few

[44:11] things to say with regard to that as

[44:12] well. Um it it does create an issue

[44:16] where

[44:18] uh

[44:20] I I think it it can open it up to as you

[44:24] said vandalism and and that's that's an

[44:26] issue that we don't want to get involved

[44:28] with and if we leave it open only when people are there

[44:34] uh again the portaotty would still be

[44:36] there and they could use it but to uh

[44:40] open it up from the outside Then we're

[44:43] talking about maintenance on a daily

[44:45] basis basically. And who's going to pick up the bill on that

[44:49] one? Uh

[44:50] >> who do you plan to have maintain it

[44:52] >> in its current state? Who will will you

[44:55] be hiring staff to

[44:56] >> We will have to hire someone and it's

[44:58] going to have to be maintained but and

[45:00] we're not looking to to pay people to be

[45:03] there from 10 to 4. We're hoping that

[45:07] once a month somebody from the community

[45:11] can come up whether it's somebody from

[45:14] the Paley Memorial Association

[45:16] Historical Commission, you know, there's

[45:18] a number or the Paley Battlefield, uh,

[45:21] somebody could sit in there. If if any

[45:24] one of you would like to do that, it's,

[45:26] you know, that would be fine, too. Uh,

[45:28] but [clears throat] basically keeping an

[45:30] eye on what's going on. We're going to

[45:32] have to have the electric eye outside.

[45:35] uh keeping an eye on it from that

[45:37] standpoint, making sure people aren't

[45:39] climbing up on the roof or whatever. And

[45:41] uh although we haven't had any issues

[45:43] with regard to the other buildings that

[45:45] are on our property, the house, the

[45:47] garage, the municipal building, we

[45:50] haven't had any issues with regard to

[45:52] that. We hope we wouldn't have any

[45:53] issues here. We're looking at I mean the roof is going to be 14 and a half

[45:57] feet. So um those are those are some of

[46:01] the things that we have to be concerned

[46:04] about and and uh that's why again for

[46:09] opening it up I I you know to the

[46:11] outside

[46:14] >> I mean other communities do this even

[46:15] Greenree Park, East Ocean Park they do

[46:17] it. They uh I know the uh restrooms by

[46:20] the ball field, they have um Wi-Fi

[46:23] enabled locks and you know custodian has

[46:26] a key when um so somebody can unlock it

[46:29] with an app and it hasn't been a

[46:31] problem. I know Green Street Park has an

[46:33] automatic lock that opens at various

[46:34] times and if you're in the restroom when

[46:37] it locks there's a button that you can

[46:39] push to still get out. Um so you're not

[46:42] trapped in there. Right. Um

[46:44] >> don't want to be stuck.

[46:45] >> Right. Right. But I I don't know for the

[46:48] community and for other visitors I would

[46:50] highly recommend that you guys give it

[46:52] another thought and you know

[46:53] >> we have thought about it and but again

[46:55] the expense involved in doing it and the

[46:58] possibility of people just wanting to

[47:00] use the bathroom. Well again there's

[47:03] >> that's that is a possibility that they

[47:04] might just want to use the bathroom but

[47:06] you know but that's kind of community

[47:08] stuff. Um the other thing though is um

[47:12] you know and that's just being a good

[47:13] neighbor kind of opening your house to

[47:15] your community. But um you off you have

[47:17] often mentioned the the heritage um

[47:20] center in Brandy Wine and I'm curious

[47:23] what their hours are and if they're

[47:24] manned because

[47:26] um

[47:27] >> well

[47:30] >> Marshall I don't believe are they

[47:32] manned. Brand new brand new on

[47:34] Battlefield.

[47:35] >> It's not.

[47:36] >> Yeah. So, I mean, it seems to me that

[47:39] it's possible that if you're expecting

[47:41] to have somebody in there when it's open

[47:44] and you won't be open without somebody,

[47:45] it could be a beautiful building that

[47:48] isn't utilized enough if you're counting

[47:50] on volunteer hours. So, I think you guys

[47:53] are on the right track. It's beautiful.

[47:55] It's welldesigned. Um, but I think

[47:58] you're probably going to need to think

[48:00] about how to be more open. um because

[48:04] what's the sense of creating something

[48:06] that we're not um you know we're not

[48:09] making accessible and as Brendan said we

[48:12] have people in our community who are

[48:15] history buffs who um will want to enjoy

[48:18] it but at the same time we also have

[48:20] people who just love that park and maybe

[48:22] they have an emergency. So, you know,

[48:25] it's it I think it all works together to

[48:28] create a space that's welcoming that um

[48:32] adds to the community. So, I there are

[48:34] some things that I you know, as I said,

[48:36] I think you're on the right track, but I

[48:38] think there are some things that you

[48:39] still probably need to work through.

[48:41] >> I I think the difference between what

[48:43] you're talking about is bathrooms at

[48:45] parks and the ballparks and whatever.

[48:48] Those are that is property that is owned

[48:52] by a municipality.

[48:54] This is private property and unless

[48:57] we're

[48:57] >> department used to be completely

[48:58] volunteer and now they only have a

[49:00] handful of volunteers. They're mostly

[49:02] employed staff at this point. Right

[49:04] there time may come when you don't have

[49:06] volunteers to staff this to open it up

[49:08] to sit there for eight hours and then to

[49:11] Zoe's point does it become closed to

[49:13] public? Do we not get to experience that

[49:15] history? uh is something to consider and

[49:18] maybe that is something the bureau looks

[49:20] into and maybe we do have staff that

[49:22] opens it up but I don't know that it's a

[49:25] viable model and if it's not going to be

[49:27] open

[49:29] it's going to be difficult to

[49:33] I I'll say this if we don't have if if

[49:37] you change this model and you say okay

[49:39] we don't have volunteers we're not going

[49:40] to open it up then we never have the

[49:42] ability to use this bathroom we never

[49:44] have the ability for the community to

[49:45] really use it right And I know that's

[49:47] not your intention, but I think you need

[49:49] to look 10 years down the road, too.

[49:52] >> Well, I I I think it's true, but I also

[49:55] think that there's enough people here, I

[49:58] think, who really want this. We've had a

[50:00] number of contributions already, and

[50:02] I've sent a a letter to um the your

[50:06] finance committee, and I think for those

[50:09] of you who are on that, I think you

[50:11] received that from me. and we've got 77

[50:14] people and businesses who've already

[50:16] made contributions. We're looking for a

[50:19] lot more contributions as well. But uh I don't see us having a building and

[50:26] maybe I'm just uh not looking at it

[50:29] correctly, but I don't see us having a

[50:30] building but not having it open. And uh

[50:34] I think we can get a number of people

[50:37] here in the in the community, maybe even

[50:40] outside the community. Willistown

[50:41] surrounds us. I mean, this was part of

[50:43] Willistown Township when and when

[50:45] everything took place back in the Battle

[50:46] of Pey. So, I think we can get people to

[50:50] volunteer once a month

[50:53] uh to come up there from 10 to 4 and we

[50:55] may even open it up more often if we

[50:59] find that it's going to be needed more

[51:01] often. Uh it's it's I think it's going

[51:04] to we're gonna have to contingency plan

[51:06] if you can't

[51:06] >> I'm sorry. Do you have a contingency

[51:08] plan if you can't get volunteers for

[51:10] from 10 to 4?

[51:12] >> Yeah, we're going to call on Burough

[51:13] Council to volunteer.

[51:14] >> Well, I'm I'm being serious, Frank. Um

[51:16] because I think all of us up here have

[51:19] experienced the difficulty of

[51:20] maintaining volunteerism. Um you know,

[51:23] throughout the burrow. So, I I do hope

[51:25] you will consider a contingency plan if

[51:27] you're not able to fully you know,

[51:29] that's you're saying Wednesday to Sunday

[51:32] 10 to 4. That's a lot of hours. Um, and

[51:35] I think we've sort of experienced the

[51:37] heartbreak of of not being able to do

[51:39] things because you just don't have the

[51:41] volunteers that you that you would hope.

[51:44] So, you know, just bring it back to the committee and and think on that one.

[51:49] >> Yeah, I would I will. We will. And we

[51:52] will. Um, I'd like to ask if other

[51:55] members of the board would like to add

[51:59] anything I've said,

[52:02] Chad.

[52:10] I'm Chad Arlington. I've been a lifelong

[52:12] resident here. Grew up here. Matter of

[52:15] fact, I used to walk across for 12

[52:17] years. I walked across those grounds

[52:19] because we lived adjacent, which is now

[52:22] part of Remington. Uh, nobody ever came

[52:26] to Memorial Park except for Ray Steel

[52:29] and Katherine and nobody bothered.

[52:32] Malard is a great place. We were the

[52:34] best well-kept secret for many years

[52:38] until we became the crossroads to the

[52:41] corporate center. Now everybody wants to

[52:44] live here. We have a great town. It's

[52:47] safe. We have a good business community.

[52:50] We

[52:52] have a good public works. We get good

[52:54] snow removal,

[52:56] trash removal. Everybody wants to live

[52:59] here. The memorial grounds have been

[53:01] there. whether it's a private piece of

[53:03] property, but everybody thinks it's part

[53:06] of the burrow and it's a public

[53:08] [clears throat] park. Frank has done

[53:10] wonders since he's been chairman of the

[53:12] grounds committee.

[53:14] We also see now a lot of people using

[53:16] the park to walk their dogs to go down

[53:19] through the woods. I remember when

[53:22] Malvin Prep was a residential school

[53:26] with a pig pen in the woods that the

[53:29] people now walk. So times have changed.

[53:33] Malvin Fire Company, every when the

[53:35] alarm sound, everybody left their

[53:38] businesses locked up and went to help

[53:40] the fight the fires. Volunteerism is

[53:44] fading. It doesn't matter where it is,

[53:47] you know, and it's going to get worse

[53:49] probably because nobody everybody is

[53:51] busy working, raising their families.

[53:54] They don't have time to volunteer. They

[53:56] also put more back on government and

[53:59] think that well I'm paying taxes let

[54:01] them why should I volunteer Malver

[54:04] Memorial Paley Memorial Browns is

[54:06] private property is an asset to this

[54:10] town

[54:12] it's got the ball field at 10 and some

[54:14] acres it's got the ball field the tennis

[54:16] courts the scout cabin it's beautiful

[54:19] when people see it they want to come to

[54:21] here they want the park you guys need to

[54:24] get behind

[54:26] and help

[54:29] the heritage center will take that

[54:32] monument that's on the graves of those

[54:33] 53 men and preserve it.

[54:37] I never saw such little picky stuff to

[54:39] get it worked out. It can be done. The

[54:43] bathrooms, okay, that is an issue. It

[54:46] came up at at a lot of the committee

[54:47] meetings. Okay. We never had bathrooms

[54:51] at the Little League field all the

[54:53] 20some years that I was involved in

[54:55] Little League and Bay Ruth league that

[54:57] had a portaotti. Even now that they have

[54:59] the restrooms, the portaotti stays

[55:03] because they can't be open all the time.

[55:06] So there has to be something there. The

[55:08] portaotti that's at the memorial

[55:10] grounds, that's not ours. That's the

[55:12] battlefield. We were lucky enough. We

[55:15] were lucky to have a piece of

[55:17] revolutionary history right here in our

[55:20] town.

[55:22] We should be honored that there's 53 men

[55:24] that made it possible for Malvin to be

[55:26] so great today.

[55:29] Frank has done a great job along with

[55:31] Jay and so many others that have

[55:35] brought the grounds up to stuff.

[55:38] It's expensive

[55:40] to put roadways in and stuff.

[55:44] I would urge you

[55:46] to get behind this and help. There's a

[55:49] lot of things you got to crawl before

[55:51] you can walk. There's a lot of things we

[55:54] don't know and you don't know. It's

[55:56] council.

[55:58] But we do the best we can. But we got a

[56:01] piece of history that you need to

[56:03] preserve. We were lucky enough to to

[56:06] have Malvin Prep sell that property to

[56:09] the battlefield which you have to

[56:11] oversee or are in control of. I guess

[56:15] I urge you stop being so picky. Let's

[56:19] get behind this and get it done. It's going to be an asset the center.

[56:24] Maybe we could even get a plaque with

[56:27] the 53 names that we have are lucky

[56:29] enough to know that they call out when

[56:32] we do the reefs around America once a

[56:35] year.

[56:37] Don't be so technical.

[56:39] Frank has done a wonderful job and and I

[56:42] give Frank credit and Jay and so many

[56:45] others, Bill and Jim.

[56:49] It sure has changed a lot. And I don't

[56:52] know whether your volunteerism and keep

[56:53] it open. I know there are some places of

[56:55] police open and closed to restrooms. I

[56:58] think that's in East Co.

[57:01] Thank you.

[57:01] >> Thank you. And just for the record, bro

[57:03] Council is very much in favor of this

[57:05] pro project. We want to see it succeed

[57:08] though, right? And

[57:10] >> well, not only that, we just to even try

[57:13] to get the grant, we had to set up

[57:14] special meetings. We're actually being

[57:16] sued because we were trying to help you

[57:18] guys so much. So it's Yeah. Uh, so

[57:23] everybody likes to sue today, but we

[57:25] were very much in favor of this project,

[57:26] but we want to see it succeed. We want

[57:28] to honor our Patriots. We want to make

[57:30] sure that it it can do all the things

[57:33] that we want it to do and that we hope

[57:35] it it can accomplish. So, and I think

[57:38] Frank's done a great job. We has

[57:40] communicated well with us and I've given

[57:42] him ideas and suggestions as well and I

[57:44] think he's taken them into account. So,

[57:46] I I'm not trying to, you know, hurt

[57:49] Frank or his feelings or anything of

[57:51] that nature. I just want to make sure

[57:52] this is a project that can be successful

[57:55] and that we can have money in the bank

[57:57] that we can give you guys in the future

[57:58] to accomplish other goals. Right.

[58:02] >> And is it fair to say um this isn't just

[58:06] a Melbourne project,

[58:09] >> right?

[58:11] >> You live in Willistown,

[58:13] right?

[58:14] speak into my

[58:15] >> and and the president of the president

[58:17] of the uh preservation fund doesn't live

[58:20] in Malver all volunteer.

[58:24] So this is a at least a regional park

[58:28] versus a Melvin park at least that

[58:32] probably national because I keep meet

[58:34] whenever I walk there I live in right

[58:37] next to it. Um,

[58:40] on occasion I meet people that are from

[58:42] all over the United States.

[58:45] I' I've met a a father and a couple of

[58:48] sons. Andrea was with me on that one.

[58:51] From Idaho.

[58:54] I met a couple from down south. I think

[58:56] it was Mississippi or Alabama.

[59:00] People are know about this. And if you

[59:03] watch that PBS special on the

[59:05] Revolutionary War,

[59:08] he did a great job for for maybe a

[59:12] couple of minutes, whatever it was,

[59:14] featuring that battle and it's right in

[59:17] our backyard.

[59:19] Not many burrows or towns or cities have

[59:23] something like that.

[59:25] Uh so what we're trying to do here is

[59:27] protect the history for the next

[59:30] generations. That's one of the main

[59:32] goals, right? Which is the the monument,

[59:37] >> right? And then provide more information

[59:40] and maybe artifacts

[59:43] that have been found on the property

[59:47] will be in display and and explained

[59:51] what you're looking at.

[59:53] So,

[59:55] um I think I I I give Frank and and his

[59:59] team a lot of a lot of credit. This is

[1:00:03] uh and and my colleagues. We're all in

[1:00:06] support. Okay. Thank you.

[1:00:09] >> Yeah. And and as Brandon said, without

[1:00:12] your support, we wouldn't have got the

[1:00:14] grant. I mean, that's a given. We know

[1:00:16] that. And we appreciate all the support

[1:00:19] we we have been getting over the years.

[1:00:22] I mean, it's not just the last couple

[1:00:24] years. It's been a long time.

[1:00:27] >> And I think the the the the field for

[1:00:31] volunteers is much bigger than the

[1:00:33] burrow.

[1:00:35] >> And I would agree. But also where you

[1:00:37] live, where Jay lives over in Tidewater,

[1:00:40] >> I think there's a number of people there

[1:00:42] that we could look to get as volunteers

[1:00:45] to help out. So Frank,

[1:00:48] >> just because I know we have another presentation. Um, do you mind if

[1:00:53] I open it up to public comment?

[1:00:55] >> Well, I want

[1:00:56] >> Oh, I'm sorry.

[1:00:57] >> If I may, Bill Shoemaker, I'm the

[1:00:58] president of the PMA. I just wanted to

[1:01:01] say very quickly, the partnership

[1:01:03] between PMA and the bureau is of

[1:01:05] longstanding and we deeply appreciate

[1:01:07] everything that the bureau does day in

[1:01:09] and day out for us. and we are in no way

[1:01:12] diminishing what's been going on here

[1:01:14] and and the support that you have and

[1:01:18] clearly there are some things that we

[1:01:20] need to work out but we are going to

[1:01:22] have the center open the best possible

[1:01:25] hours we can. Now we are actually

[1:01:27] receiving a lot of commentary from

[1:01:29] people who want to see it closed more

[1:01:32] because they don't want to see people

[1:01:33] gathering around it. They don't want

[1:01:35] crowds. They are requesting that we

[1:01:38] codify that the bathroom not be

[1:01:40] available to the general public because

[1:01:42] they don't want people hanging around

[1:01:43] and so forth.

[1:01:45] These are all issues that have to be

[1:01:47] reconciled. But um you know having the restroom available to the general

[1:01:53] public.

[1:01:55] Obviously there's cleaning and

[1:01:56] maintenance and all those kinds of

[1:01:57] issues which would be there to a greater

[1:01:59] or lesser extent regardless. One of the

[1:02:02] challenges that we fa that we face and

[1:02:04] this is you know pure mechanics. We're a

[1:02:08] private property that functions as a

[1:02:10] public park. We pay liability insurance

[1:02:14] out the years because of that and having

[1:02:17] a public restroom available on the

[1:02:19] grounds is going to again increase those

[1:02:22] issues. So we have to address those but

[1:02:25] we have no um institutional hard line

[1:02:29] saying it's not going to be a public

[1:02:30] restroom. We need to work those issues

[1:02:32] out and you know moving a door is is not

[1:02:35] a huge issue in terms of the planning

[1:02:37] and so forth going forward. We are

[1:02:39] committed to having this open as much as

[1:02:41] possible to be available to the public

[1:02:45] reasonable hours. The grounds are you

[1:02:47] know closed from dusk to dawn. So it's

[1:02:50] not going to be a nighttime thing. We

[1:02:52] don't want to have a lot of bright

[1:02:54] lighting. We don't want to do more

[1:02:55] paving than is absolutely necessary. But

[1:02:58] we clearly are working with the burrow

[1:03:01] to make it work for everybody

[1:03:04] that's involved. And we are going to

[1:03:06] have a lot of work to get volunteers to

[1:03:09] cover those hours, but we're not going

[1:03:11] to reduce the open time. I mean, Frank

[1:03:13] and I will take shifts to be sure that

[1:03:16] it's open. I know Frank looking forward

[1:03:18] to it. Uh, but I certainly am as well.

[1:03:21] But, you know, we really want to

[1:03:23] emphasize how important our partnership

[1:03:24] with the burrow is.

[1:03:28] >> Did you hear that?

[1:03:28] >> No, I did.

[1:03:29] >> Wasn't just me. But emphasize how

[1:03:32] important our partnership is with the

[1:03:33] burrow. And we certainly want to be

[1:03:36] supportive of the burrow's efforts as

[1:03:39] well as the burrow support of what PMA

[1:03:41] is doing. So, thank you very much.

[1:03:42] >> Thank you. All right. With that, I'll

[1:03:45] open up to public comment. Uh, Mr.

[1:03:47] Sharpless.

[1:03:56] Vicky Sharpless 328 East Broad. Um, real

[1:03:59] quickly, um, I just think it would be

[1:04:02] wonderful if we could have a bathroom

[1:04:03] available. I I think that would be the

[1:04:05] best of, you know, of options. But if

[1:04:08] it's not going to happen, we can make do

[1:04:10] with with a portaotti. I don't think

[1:04:13] that that's should be something that

[1:04:14] should stand in the way of them

[1:04:17] continuing their work and spending a

[1:04:20] million more hours figuring out how can

[1:04:22] we use a bathroom, how can we keep it

[1:04:23] clean, how can we make it secure when we

[1:04:26] do have another option. We have the

[1:04:28] Paley Battlefield offering to maintain

[1:04:31] and keep that portaotty. It's, you know

[1:04:34] what, 100 ft away from where this

[1:04:36] building's going to be. It's not that

[1:04:38] big of an issue. Um, and I'm just

[1:04:40] speaking. I don't have anything to do

[1:04:41] with PMA. I just live in the burrow.

[1:04:44] I've lived here my whole life. And I

[1:04:46] just think that it's an issue that's

[1:04:49] almost a non-issue at this point. Thank

[1:04:51] you.

[1:04:51] >> Thank you, Mr. Buckley.

[1:04:53] >> Thank you.

[1:04:58] » Okay.

[1:05:05] » You can come. Yeah. Sorry.

[1:05:06] >> All right. Um we're making putting this

[1:05:08] beautiful building up there and here's a

[1:05:11] chance to have um regular um bathroom

[1:05:16] because that sink sits there look like

[1:05:18] crap and you're having people come from

[1:05:20] other towns in here and look at that and

[1:05:23] got to use a port

[1:05:25] and maybe it's time the burr and then

[1:05:30] work together and make this happen

[1:05:32] because this town gets a lot of grants

[1:05:34] and stuff. There's money can be found

[1:05:36] somewhere to make this happen. But I

[1:05:39] mean, how would you like it? You bring

[1:05:42] your kids up there and oh, you got a

[1:05:44] nice you talk to this and um then they

[1:05:46] close or whatever. It's about time we

[1:05:48] get do it with portable Johns in there.

[1:05:51] We were talking about the park and up

[1:05:54] here at the B up in county that should

[1:05:57] be a nice toilet like um Green Park got

[1:06:01] and we're spending all the I'm

[1:06:02] disappointed. I challenge anybody out

[1:06:04] here in the audience, go down and see

[1:06:05] the way that working. It ain't as nice

[1:06:07] as it is for the money we're spending.

[1:06:09] Thank you.

[1:06:11] >> And for the record, we did help the PMA

[1:06:14] get grant funding for this and the

[1:06:16] portaotti at Randolph Woods is for the

[1:06:18] people doing the work on Randolph Woods.

[1:06:19] So, Mr. Petty John 139 Church. Um, strangely for

[1:06:30] once in a while, Brendan, I agree with

[1:06:32] you in so many facets on this, uh,

[1:06:35] building, it's beautiful. It's gorgeous.

[1:06:38] And as a father who takes his young kids

[1:06:40] up to that area regularly, and also as a

[1:06:43] scout leader who participates in that

[1:06:45] area regularly,

[1:06:47] to use the 100 ft away from his

[1:06:50] brand new building. It's a technical

[1:06:52] term.

[1:06:54] >> It is. Um, but to use that plastic porta

[1:06:58] potty that's 100 ft away from a brand

[1:07:00] new building when we have the

[1:07:02] opportunity to open it up to the public,

[1:07:05] to the young people, because let's be

[1:07:07] honest, guys, um, there's not a lot of

[1:07:10] young people sitting in this room,

[1:07:12] there's not a lot of young people on the

[1:07:13] PMA. You want to keep kids interested in

[1:07:16] history and keep them coming to see a

[1:07:17] monument, they got to want to go to the

[1:07:19] building and they're going to go there

[1:07:20] and say, "Hey, what's this?" And they're

[1:07:21] going to ask questions. But when you

[1:07:23] say, "Nope, you can't go in there. it's

[1:07:25] not open today, then they don't care.

[1:07:27] History disappears when you don't pass

[1:07:29] that information on. And that monument

[1:07:30] can be perfectly protected and nobody's

[1:07:32] going to see it and nobody's going to

[1:07:34] care about it in 25 years, 30 years.

[1:07:36] They just won't because they won't know

[1:07:37] about it. Just open the damn open Sorry,

[1:07:40] Brennan. Open the bathrooms up. It's so

[1:07:42] easy. It's a It's And and Chad, I hear

[1:07:45] you. It's ticky tacky stuff, but these

[1:07:47] little things, they can build up and you have to answer these

[1:07:50] questions. You have to hit all the

[1:07:52] little things and knock down all the all

[1:07:54] the dominoes so that everybody's on the

[1:07:56] same page. I I I think we really need to

[1:07:59] do this PMA. I think you need to

[1:08:01] reconsider it to sit there talk about

[1:08:03] what a great town this is. It's an

[1:08:04] awesome town. It's amazing town. It's

[1:08:05] wonderful. It's awesome. And I agree.

[1:08:07] I'm never leaving Malvin Burrow ever.

[1:08:10] But you can't then turn around and say,

[1:08:11] "But it's not safe enough to leave a

[1:08:13] bathroom open during the day." That

[1:08:15] doesn't make any sense. That's both

[1:08:16] you're talking both sides. So, uh, you

[1:08:19] know, I'm just speaking as a community

[1:08:20] member with young pe young children and,

[1:08:23] uh, how helpful bath, not to mention

[1:08:25] special needs kid who, uh, using a porta

[1:08:28] potty is always a challenge. Um,

[1:08:31] because, well, let's be honest, they're

[1:08:32] gross even when they're clean. Um, and I

[1:08:34] use them every day on the job site. So,

[1:08:36] uh, but they're gross when they're

[1:08:37] clean. Just it's it's stupid. It seems

[1:08:40] stupid chat. It is ticky tacky and it

[1:08:42] seems dumb, but the change for the

[1:08:44] community, it will have an impact.

[1:08:46] That's all. Thank you. All right. Thank

[1:08:47] you. Uh Mr. House,

[1:08:59] Matt House, 105 Woodland Avenue. Um I

[1:09:03] was thinking about the the bathrooms as

[1:09:06] well and what uh one of the gentlemen

[1:09:08] said about the insurance and it being uh

[1:09:11] private property

[1:09:13] um owned and insured that way. And um

[1:09:17] they are going to have to, you know,

[1:09:19] talk to their insurance agent and find

[1:09:22] out from the underwriters at the company

[1:09:25] um whether or not they can

[1:09:29] and if the insurance company will be

[1:09:31] able to insure them with a public

[1:09:35] 247 bathroom like that. Um that that

[1:09:40] does change their underwriting. And so

[1:09:43] if if they were just to put it in and

[1:09:46] the insurance company finds out, they

[1:09:48] may turn around and say, "Eh, we can't

[1:09:50] do this." Or their insurance rates

[1:09:54] jump way up and, you know, that's an

[1:09:57] expense that they weren't looking for.

[1:10:00] So, you know, that that is a that is a

[1:10:03] real concern. um you know so um I I

[1:10:09] would say you know if if you're going to

[1:10:11] look into this call your insurance agent

[1:10:13] first get that answer. Um, and then the

[1:10:17] other thing I was thinking, you know,

[1:10:18] with that um with that tree that you

[1:10:22] were going to cut down, um, you know,

[1:10:24] could the the lumber be mil and use part

[1:10:30] of that lumber in the construction of,

[1:10:34] you know, maybe some of the beams on the

[1:10:35] outside or, you know, just using a part

[1:10:39] of what was cut down as,

[1:10:44] yeah, something in the building. I I

[1:10:46] think that'd be kind of cool. But

[1:10:48] >> so we actually did think about uh so we

[1:10:51] had the stream bank stabilization

[1:10:52] project and we talked about maybe trying

[1:10:54] to use the trees that we had to remove

[1:10:56] for that project and do what you've

[1:10:58] suggested for this project. Uh and it

[1:11:00] sounds like you have to wait at least

[1:11:02] like couple of years for the wood to

[1:11:05] dry. So it doesn't sound like that would

[1:11:06] be feasible. Um, you know, Frank and I

[1:11:09] have talked in the past about

[1:11:10] potentially the burrow, you know,

[1:11:13] renting other portions of uh the PMA

[1:11:16] grounds that so we can do things like

[1:11:18] maintain the tennis court. Uh maybe I I

[1:11:22] would assume our insurance would cover

[1:11:23] that if we were to do something like

[1:11:24] that. And then the other thing too would

[1:11:26] be maybe we rent that space of the

[1:11:29] bathroom from the PMA [clears throat]

[1:11:30] and we put that on our insurance. But

[1:11:32] these are all conversations I'll have

[1:11:33] with Frank when the time comes.

[1:11:37] Mr. Schmidt,

[1:11:38] >> I also just want to say I don't think

[1:11:40] anybody expects a 24-hour bathroom. No,

[1:11:42] [laughter]

[1:11:43] >> it's not Waw Wa, but just when people

[1:11:45] are using the park.

[1:11:47] >> Yeah, I just I know we've had uh

[1:11:49] discussion about volunteers and

[1:11:50] volunteerism. And I know that's been a

[1:11:52] concern, but one group that I have not

[1:11:54] heard really um that we're going to be

[1:11:56] relying on is the Pale Battlefield

[1:11:57] Preservation Fund um board. Um the PMA

[1:12:01] board is 11 members of which I believe

[1:12:04] I'm the youngest. However, the PBPF

[1:12:05] board um h I want to say at least half

[1:12:08] of those dozen or so members are younger

[1:12:10] than me and they are champing at the bit

[1:12:12] to be able to find places to volunteer

[1:12:14] and to spend their time and they love

[1:12:16] their history. They're very

[1:12:17] enthusiastic. So, I know they're all

[1:12:19] looking forward to helping out with that

[1:12:21] as well.

[1:12:22] >> All right. Thank you.

[1:12:23] >> Uh sir with the white shirt, I don't

[1:12:25] know that we've met if you don't mind

[1:12:27] just stating your name for the uh

[1:12:28] meeting minutes.

[1:12:31] Yeah, I'm Kevin Julie and I live on

[1:12:33] Remington Lane uh behind the memorial

[1:12:36] grounds. Uh and I want to say um we're

[1:12:39] fully in support of the center. Um we

[1:12:41] think they've done a great job. Uh we've

[1:12:42] had some discussions with Bill and Jim

[1:12:44] and and Frank about the designs. Uh

[1:12:48] they've listened to our concerns. It's

[1:12:50] been a it's been a great process. And

[1:12:52] you raised the concerns of the residents

[1:12:54] of Melvin. There are neighbors, I think,

[1:12:56] who would be very concerned to the

[1:12:58] burough staff about the plans. Um, and

[1:13:00] we're waiting for answers back on zoning

[1:13:03] and on emergency access. So, we hope

[1:13:05] that we'll get answers to those at some

[1:13:07] point in this process. Thanks.

[1:13:09] >> Thank you. All right. Anybody else?

[1:13:12] All right. Well, thank you and good job,

[1:13:14] Frank. And thank you everyone for uh

[1:13:17] chiming in. I appreciate it.

[1:13:29] All right. Uh with that, let's move on

[1:13:31] to our next uh agenda item, which is uh consider the

[1:13:37] application of DEFRA LLC for

[1:13:39] preliminary/final subdivision and land

[1:13:41] development plan. Uh Wendy, do you want

[1:13:44] to take us through this? Or Dan, who do

[1:13:45] you think would be more appropriate?

[1:13:49] Um, well, I think I Dan, do you want to

[1:13:53] run through your f the letter you just

[1:13:55] did um a few days ago?

[1:13:59] >> Is that the best thing to to um

[1:14:03] >> that's fine. I'm happy to talk about the

[1:14:05] applicants here too um to uh to talk

[1:14:08] about it here. Um,

[1:14:13] so you want me to jump into my letter or

[1:14:15] you want to have them kind of introduce

[1:14:16] your job here? I know you guys are all

[1:14:18] familiar with it here. Tell me, tell me

[1:14:20] what you prefer, you guys.

[1:14:21] >> Uh, maybe maybe Mr. Carr would like to

[1:14:23] go ahead. you've um we've been through

[1:14:26] your letter a few times and maybe if he

[1:14:30] just goes if if council has questions

[1:14:33] about

[1:14:34] what he says about your letter then you

[1:14:37] can respond. Um I think that would

[1:14:40] probably be more efficient at at this

[1:14:42] point. So, if you want to go, if you

[1:14:45] want to talk about where you think you

[1:14:48] are in terms of compliance with

[1:14:52] everything, including Dan's most recent

[1:14:55] letter, which had a a few items on it,

[1:15:00] um, and then you and Dan can field

[1:15:03] questions as to the details of those.

[1:15:07] >> Thank you so much for being here

[1:15:08] tonight. My name is Owen Carr. I'm a

[1:15:11] member of Duffernar LLC, the developer

[1:15:13] of this project. Um, tonight we bring to

[1:15:17] you a 5,337

[1:15:21] square foot ground floor commercial with

[1:15:23] 14 upper floor dwelling units located on

[1:15:25] King Street at Bridge Street.

[1:15:28] Um, we are proposing a 30 space parking

[1:15:32] lot uh off Woodland Avenue in the rear

[1:15:35] of the building.

[1:15:37] Um this is a plan that I think has been

[1:15:39] seen before, but this is a new

[1:15:41] application. Um we're coming to you

[1:15:44] today with a plan that has um no

[1:15:47] variances and I believe five waiverss um

[1:15:51] that were supported by the planning

[1:15:54] commission with um conditions. Um we

[1:15:58] have support from the um shade tree

[1:16:01] commission for our work that we're doing

[1:16:03] along King Street to improve the

[1:16:05] streetscape. Um we have support from the

[1:16:08] Minne Fire Company um and have addressed

[1:16:10] concerns that they have regarding access

[1:16:13] and the ability to address fires. Um the

[1:16:17] waiverss that we requested from the

[1:16:19] planning commission um were of a minor

[1:16:22] nature and we uh went through them

[1:16:25] pretty carefully with the planning

[1:16:26] commission over several meetings um and

[1:16:29] I think worked through uh the details.

[1:16:32] The main point I want to make tonight is

[1:16:34] that throughout this project, our goal

[1:16:37] has been listening to the community. We

[1:16:39] were looking at a blank piece of land

[1:16:42] that was a real eyesore at the base of

[1:16:44] Brid Street. And my father and I said,

[1:16:46] you know, we want to give something back

[1:16:47] to the burrow. We want to have a

[1:16:48] statement piece. When people drive over

[1:16:50] Brid Street and into the burrow, there's

[1:16:52] something that the burrow can be proud

[1:16:53] of rather than a vacant lot. Um, and

[1:16:57] through the process, we've decreased the

[1:17:00] number of units. We've oriented the

[1:17:02] parking. We've changed buffers. We've

[1:17:05] done a numerous numerous changes. Every

[1:17:07] time we received a comment, we took it

[1:17:08] in. We listened and we made improvements

[1:17:11] we feel to the plan that we have today.

[1:17:14] Um so I'm happy to walk through Dan's

[1:17:17] letter. I think um of the open design

[1:17:20] items, everything has been addressed

[1:17:22] that I'm aware of Dan. Um but we can

[1:17:25] certainly go through it in in detail. Um

[1:17:29] the uh waiverss that were requested and

[1:17:32] recommended for approval by the um

[1:17:35] planning commission have to do with the

[1:17:38] application being viewed as a

[1:17:39] preliminary

[1:17:41] which is a pretty common request that is

[1:17:44] made. There is another variance waiver

[1:17:47] that was requested regarding the cartway

[1:17:49] width of King Street. Um given the

[1:17:52] nature of the road, there is a part of

[1:17:54] the ordinance that would require greater

[1:17:56] setback than what we have proposed. As a

[1:17:58] result, we're trying to keep in the

[1:18:00] character of the burrow and it would set

[1:18:03] the building further back than any other

[1:18:04] building on King Street to a buildout

[1:18:06] width that would never be done in that

[1:18:08] part of the burrow um in given its

[1:18:10] historic nature. Uh we have also

[1:18:13] requested a waiver um regarding curb

[1:18:16] height. The current ordinance requires

[1:18:18] an 8 inch curb height which is greater

[1:18:20] than the recommended ANIE step height of

[1:18:23] seven inches um and is really I think a

[1:18:26] result of former um use of milling and

[1:18:30] graving before paving um which is no

[1:18:33] longer really done um because now you

[1:18:36] mill in lie of of paving over and over.

[1:18:38] So, we're requesting a a waiver from

[1:18:41] that. And then the the tree waiver I

[1:18:43] mentioned as well, due to the

[1:18:44] limitations of the existing building at

[1:18:46] the corner of King and Woodland being up

[1:18:47] against the sidewalk, we don't have the

[1:18:50] ability to install the required street

[1:18:51] trees there. So, we went and worked with

[1:18:54] the Shade Tree Commission and we're uh

[1:18:56] going to do a sort of pilot program for

[1:18:58] the Shade Tree Commission to introduce

[1:19:00] something called a Silva cell system,

[1:19:02] which is a root management system. So

[1:19:04] our hope is that through the use of this

[1:19:06] root management system, we'll be able to

[1:19:07] keep the sidewalks in their intended

[1:19:10] condition, the Silva cell system helps

[1:19:12] direct the root systems down rather than

[1:19:14] up and heaving the sidewalk and creating

[1:19:17] tripping hazards. So the shade tree

[1:19:19] commission is really excited to see how

[1:19:20] that program works and and uh how we are

[1:19:23] able to implement it and approving. And

[1:19:25] then the final um waiver had to do with

[1:19:28] the grading against the property line

[1:19:29] just because of some um limitations we

[1:19:31] have on slope. And then the final um

[1:19:35] item had to do with the stormwater

[1:19:36] management ordinance. And um while we

[1:19:39] have an on-site storm water management

[1:19:41] system designed to handle uh backto-back

[1:19:43] hundredyear storms, uh there is no um

[1:19:46] public storm sewer in the area as the

[1:19:50] parcel is probably the highest point in

[1:19:52] King Street there. Um and so we'll

[1:19:54] require um if there ever were

[1:19:57] backto-back hundredyear storms and we

[1:19:58] were to exceed our on-site storage,

[1:20:00] there's a bubble up that would flow uh

[1:20:02] following the natural path of water onto

[1:20:04] Woodland and then King Street and then

[1:20:05] down. So there's a waiver that's been

[1:20:09] requested for that as well.

[1:20:11] >> All right. Um All right. with that. Dan,

[1:20:13] did you have any feedback for us in

[1:20:15] terms of I guess I don't necessarily

[1:20:18] need you to read the letter or anything,

[1:20:19] but

[1:20:21] >> those are the key items here that

[1:20:23] introduction to the job. I think um I

[1:20:24] think applicant did a good job with that

[1:20:26] and spelled out the waiverss um and uh

[1:20:28] the only thing is the uh the planning

[1:20:30] commission had made a couple

[1:20:31] recommendations um uh for some

[1:20:33] conditions on theirs also um that uh was

[1:20:36] in your packet here and I'm happy to

[1:20:38] discuss those if they if you feel

[1:20:39] necessary for that.

[1:20:40] >> Um

[1:20:41] >> I know you've seen them all. Yeah, we've

[1:20:42] seen them, but uh I guess for the

[1:20:44] interest of the public, maybe we'll

[1:20:46] discuss them.

[1:20:47] >> Okay, so I'll jump over to that waiver

[1:20:50] here. I'm sorry, their the

[1:20:52] recommendation.

[1:20:55] » Well, I just just want to clarify, Dan,

[1:20:58] are you are you in since it's hard to

[1:21:01] read the what's up on the screen, I've

[1:21:03] read it. You've read it. is are are you

[1:21:07] um agreeing that pretty much all of the

[1:21:10] things that you have brought up in your

[1:21:15] prior reviews have been satisfied

[1:21:19] in terms of um you know whatever in

[1:21:23] terms of the storm water and the uh I

[1:21:26] think the one of the prior waiver

[1:21:29] requests had to do with a turning radius

[1:21:32] and that's no longer on the lists,

[1:21:35] right?

[1:21:35] >> Correct.

[1:21:36] >> And um

[1:21:38] >> radi was on the a former plan that's no

[1:21:40] longer in play. Correct.

[1:21:42] >> Yep. And um they've done the truck

[1:21:44] turning templates for the access in and

[1:21:46] out of the site has been that was a big

[1:21:47] issue of making sure that vehicles can

[1:21:50] get in and uh turn around within the

[1:21:52] property and not require to back out

[1:21:54] onto the site. Uh that's been uh that's

[1:21:56] been looked at and the tr truck turning

[1:21:58] templates have been reviewed um and

[1:22:00] approved by both our office and the

[1:22:02] traffic engineer. Um, so that was one of

[1:22:04] the big items. They'll have to do a

[1:22:05] shared uh driveway access easement

[1:22:07] because there are two lots associated

[1:22:09] with this property and uh so they'll

[1:22:11] have a shared access agreement to uh to

[1:22:14] use the parking lot. Um that will get

[1:22:16] reviewed and approved by the solicitor.

[1:22:18] Um

[1:22:21] the uh parking from a zoning point of

[1:22:23] view here, the the uh the proposed uh

[1:22:26] unit count and the commercial space um

[1:22:29] meets the required parking requirements

[1:22:31] that without requiring any uh use of

[1:22:35] off- streetet parking to count towards

[1:22:36] the credit. That was a really big

[1:22:39] street, right?

[1:22:40] >> That's that's another

[1:22:42] >> thing that's off that that's a change

[1:22:44] from

[1:22:44] >> that was that was a change. So they they

[1:22:46] are not asking to utilize um any of the

[1:22:50] on street parking as credit for the

[1:22:52] parking requirements to meet the

[1:22:54] ordinance. Um so that's been modified

[1:22:57] and adjusted here throughout the process here. Um

[1:23:03] they've met all the landscape buffering

[1:23:05] requirements here uh associated with the

[1:23:08] project here. Um we did ask for a um uh

[1:23:12] to update a storm water conveyance

[1:23:14] system. They with the modification they

[1:23:16] made in the parking lot recently for a

[1:23:17] handicap, they added another inlet in

[1:23:20] and uh I one of my comments was to

[1:23:22] update the stormwater report to show the

[1:23:24] conveyance piping uh within that report

[1:23:27] design of that. I've worked offline with

[1:23:29] the applicant. Uh they haven't made the

[1:23:30] official submission into the burrow yet,

[1:23:32] but they provided me a copy of that and

[1:23:34] it appears to be acceptable. So I'm okay

[1:23:36] with the storm water design. There are

[1:23:37] not any outstanding stormwater comments.

[1:23:40] Um so uh so no the majority of the uh

[1:23:43] the items um um are uh or the design

[1:23:46] related items are have been addressed uh

[1:23:48] per the ordinance requirements um um

[1:23:51] here for uh for in my opinion in my

[1:23:54] review.

[1:23:55] >> Okay. So if if I were if I was

[1:23:58] instructed to write uh a a denial, is

[1:24:04] there anything in your letter that would

[1:24:08] make it that I could hang a hat on or is

[1:24:10] everything as far as engineering and

[1:24:13] design things are concerned? Is does the

[1:24:16] plan now meet the objective standards of

[1:24:20] the zoning and subdivision and land

[1:24:22] development ordinance? Yes, with the uh

[1:24:24] with the except for the the waivers

[1:24:27] requested which are are pretty nominal

[1:24:29] uh from from that end.

[1:24:30] >> Right. Okay.

[1:24:33] >> The um planning commission um made a uh

[1:24:36] recommendation for the uh the project

[1:24:38] here um uh subject to certain conditions

[1:24:41] that all waiverss um um uh be comply

[1:24:44] with all the outstanding comments of uh

[1:24:46] our letter here. the waiverss be granted

[1:24:49] um and modified. I guess unless specific

[1:24:51] answers or or waiverss are granted um

[1:24:54] they should comply with all of our

[1:24:56] letters um comments in our letters. Um

[1:25:01] uh there was a comment in here about the

[1:25:02] bureau uh related to the proposed

[1:25:04] rightaway improvements prior to plan

[1:25:06] recordation. Uh they are dedicating some

[1:25:08] rightway along King Street. Um so

[1:25:10] they'll uh they'll be required to uh do

[1:25:12] a deed dedication for that strip of

[1:25:14] rightway. Um the uh the applicant um

[1:25:18] there was a condition in here that the

[1:25:20] applicant um uh shall provide written

[1:25:23] correspondences from each utility

[1:25:25] company with facilities along East King

[1:25:27] Street identifying the ownership of the

[1:25:30] overhead utility and communication lines

[1:25:32] whether underground relocation is

[1:25:33] feasible and whether relocation

[1:25:35] protection or modification is required

[1:25:37] to accommodate um emergency apparatus um

[1:25:40] access. uh the bureau engineer and the

[1:25:42] fire company shall receive copies of all

[1:25:44] utility responses uh for review. So um

[1:25:48] there's been some discussion here for uh

[1:25:51] this application here about um the uh

[1:25:53] the overhead wires. There are I to best

[1:25:56] my knowledge there are Comcast and

[1:25:58] Verizon lines uh not electric lines um

[1:26:02] uh along the uh property frontage um for

[1:26:05] those um the applicant has the desire to

[1:26:09] um remove them from an aesthetic point

[1:26:11] of view here. um fire company has um has looked at this and and would love to

[1:26:16] have them out of the way here too, but

[1:26:19] um there's no ordinance requirements

[1:26:20] that can do that and those are going to

[1:26:22] be dictated whether or not the utility

[1:26:23] companies will allow them to be put in

[1:26:26] the ground. As many of the council

[1:26:27] members are aware, um we tried that

[1:26:30] exercise with the east side flats and uh

[1:26:32] the utility companies rejected, that was

[1:26:34] Pico in particular, rejected um the the applicant from uh putting those

[1:26:38] underground. they did not choose, they

[1:26:40] did not want them underground. Um, by

[1:26:43] discussions with the applicant, they

[1:26:44] would like to have that from from a

[1:26:46] project perspective. Uh, but that's

[1:26:48] going to be dictated whether or not the

[1:26:49] utility companies uh will allow that to

[1:26:51] occur.

[1:26:52] >> And these are just Comcast and Verizon.

[1:26:54] You said

[1:26:55] >> Comcast and Verizon is the best

[1:26:56] liability. The electrics on the opposite

[1:26:58] side of the street and so um they're not

[1:27:01] electrified wiring here.

[1:27:03] >> Yeah. with with the caveat that there

[1:27:05] are other utilities that have rights and

[1:27:08] that becomes our sticking point because

[1:27:09] there are

[1:27:10] >> those polls were originally I believe

[1:27:12] put up by belic and you know belic no

[1:27:14] longer exists but their successor and

[1:27:15] subsidiaries still hold certain

[1:27:17] privileges and

[1:27:18] >> and that's what we're trying to

[1:27:19] navigate.

[1:27:20] >> Okay.

[1:27:21] Um, the applicant also suggested uh I'm

[1:27:24] sorry, the planning commission also

[1:27:25] suggested that a traffic impact and

[1:27:27] pedestrian safety evaluation addressing

[1:27:30] the proposed street rightway, pedestrian

[1:27:32] circulation, sidewalk connectivity,

[1:27:34] crosswalks, emergency vehicle operation,

[1:27:36] loading and delivery movements, and site

[1:27:38] distances associated with the

[1:27:39] development. Um, and then any

[1:27:42] recommendations affected by the proposed

[1:27:44] rideway or public improvements shall be

[1:27:46] incorporated into the final plans to the

[1:27:47] satisfaction of the burough engineer. Um

[1:27:50] that was one of their conditions uh that

[1:27:52] they had listed on there and they also

[1:27:54] uh had a condition that the uh um plan

[1:27:57] uh prior to the plan recordation they'll

[1:28:00] update the storm water report which I

[1:28:02] have been working with the applicant on

[1:28:03] and have uh and have found that to be

[1:28:05] satisfactory for what's been submitted

[1:28:07] here

[1:28:09] >> terms of traffic study. Uh does this

[1:28:12] maybe this is more of a question for

[1:28:13] Wendy's or maybe it is for you uh Dan.

[1:28:16] Is this something that a project of the

[1:28:18] size normally does? Is it something we

[1:28:20] can compel the applicant to do? Is it

[1:28:24] legal legally viable? So the ordinance,

[1:28:26] your current uh ordinance right now as

[1:28:28] is written today does not have a

[1:28:30] provision for this um uh to require that

[1:28:33] as a as a mandatory requirement. um from

[1:28:36] a uh talking with a traffic engineer um

[1:28:39] uh and being involved with projects with

[1:28:42] traffic studies in the past. Um the

[1:28:44] typical PennDOT project if this King

[1:28:46] Street happened to be a Pendot road or

[1:28:48] um involved with a PennDOT intersection

[1:28:51] um uh this project is sized um does not

[1:28:54] uh would not require a traffic study to

[1:28:56] be completed uh because of the number of

[1:28:58] peak daily trip peak hourly trips that

[1:29:01] are anticipated for the for 14 units in

[1:29:04] the commercial space. Um so the

[1:29:06] ordinance uh doesn't require that. Um

[1:29:08] the applicant did as part of a previous

[1:29:10] application um do u um kind of a traffic

[1:29:14] assessment here um back in June of of

[1:29:17] 2025 that did address um the anticipated

[1:29:20] uh um traffic uh peak peak hourly rates

[1:29:24] and traffic movements um and that was

[1:29:26] reviewed by the uh by the burough

[1:29:28] traffic engineer. Um part of this uh

[1:29:31] application process has been sight

[1:29:34] distance analysis has already been

[1:29:35] completed for the driveway. Um been

[1:29:37] reviewed and approved. Um the loading

[1:29:40] and delivery movements have been looked

[1:29:42] at um extensively here through the land

[1:29:44] development process with the planning

[1:29:46] commission. Um emergency vehicle

[1:29:48] operations have been reviewed and looked

[1:29:49] at um by the fire department. Um

[1:29:52] sidewalk connectivity. Um uh they we

[1:29:55] looked at the crosswalks. they're going

[1:29:56] to be as part of this project to

[1:29:58] proposing um traffic on pedestrian

[1:30:01] improvements around King Street

[1:30:02] intersection. Um and uh they've also

[1:30:05] designed handicap ramps at the driveway

[1:30:07] crossing um for this. So a lot of these

[1:30:09] items were um addressed as part of the

[1:30:13] um uh part of the uh land development

[1:30:16] process here that was uh that was

[1:30:18] reviewed by the traffic engineer and our

[1:30:20] office. And just to key off what Dan was

[1:30:22] saying as feedback that we received from

[1:30:23] this council, uh we are improving the

[1:30:25] intersection of King and Bridge.

[1:30:26] There'll be new crosswalks on all

[1:30:28] locations crossing King in two places as

[1:30:32] shown on the plan and then crossing

[1:30:33] bridges one. Uh all those uh landings

[1:30:36] will be updated to uh all the new

[1:30:38] landings be updated to ADA standards. Um

[1:30:41] and the burrow has requested that

[1:30:43] special uh pavement markings be

[1:30:44] provided. So, we feel that we're making

[1:30:46] a a large contribution to the safety of

[1:30:48] King Street by by improving that that

[1:30:50] intersection from a pedestrian

[1:30:51] standpoint.

[1:30:52] >> Yeah. As far the legal standpoint, um

[1:30:55] because, you know, I don't come to all

[1:30:57] these meetings, but I sometimes watch

[1:30:59] them and I, you know, I'm generally

[1:31:02] aware of what's going on, but and and

[1:31:05] any project in the bureau, this traffic

[1:31:09] question always comes up. And there's a

[1:31:13] couple things that I just want to make

[1:31:16] clear. Um there are not

[1:31:21] standards that we can um look at any

[1:31:26] report and say, "Oh, well that's going

[1:31:29] to be that's going to be too much

[1:31:30] traffic or that's okay or whatever."

[1:31:32] There's um in the in the pendot world

[1:31:35] there's things called levels of service

[1:31:37] that and if you're you know there's ABC

[1:31:41] D um and often um you know a traffic

[1:31:45] report will say well it's level of

[1:31:48] service F now and it's going to be level

[1:31:51] of service F later. There's nothing

[1:31:53] lower than F. So um and there's no

[1:31:57] standards that um we have available to

[1:32:02] say

[1:32:03] that um you know it'll people will have

[1:32:07] to wait 20 seconds longer to make a turn

[1:32:11] or cross the street. We can't make a

[1:32:14] denial based on some on

[1:32:18] um something that doesn't have a a very

[1:32:22] objective standard. Now, in some

[1:32:24] municipalities, like most notably here,

[1:32:27] West Whiteland, they have gone through a

[1:32:31] very long process, a very expensive

[1:32:33] process to create something called a um

[1:32:37] traffic impact

[1:32:40] fee thing. I forget the name of the

[1:32:42] statute, but um developers in in West

[1:32:46] Whiteland

[1:32:48] um may be required to um do certain

[1:32:52] things. based on a plan that was

[1:32:55] developed after a whole separate process

[1:32:58] from the subdivision land development

[1:33:01] procedure. And the reason for that is

[1:33:04] that

[1:33:06] under the municipality's planning code

[1:33:08] and the case law, if there's an existing

[1:33:12] problem in the municipality, whatever it

[1:33:16] may be, a U developer coming in cannot

[1:33:21] be made to fix all of the existing

[1:33:25] problems. You can't make them do that.

[1:33:29] And if you have the traffic impact

[1:33:31] study, you can ask for a fee um which is

[1:33:37] calculated according to this big

[1:33:39] expensive study that says, well, okay,

[1:33:42] you're going to increase increase

[1:33:44] traffic by a thousand cars a day. So, we

[1:33:47] have this formula that we worked up

[1:33:50] using our big expensive study. And that

[1:33:52] means that you have to contribute $100

[1:33:56] per rental unit to our traffic fee. So

[1:34:01] you can do that. Melvin doesn't have

[1:34:03] that. And I can pretty much tell you

[1:34:06] that if Melvin tried to do that, it

[1:34:08] would be a failure because the burrow is

[1:34:12] too small. Um but you know, if you want us to do it, you know, let me know.

[1:34:17] It be make somebody a whole lot of

[1:34:20] money. So anyway, the short story is I

[1:34:23] know there have been a lot of concerns

[1:34:25] raised about traffic. I've but there is

[1:34:29] no lawful way to turn down this plan at

[1:34:34] this point based on anything having to

[1:34:38] do with traffic. There just isn't. So

[1:34:42] that's all I have. And if anything, I

[1:34:44] think some of the improvements this

[1:34:47] project provides, like I think you've

[1:34:49] agreed to straighten out the kink in

[1:34:51] King Street. Uh there's a bend. Uh

[1:34:54] that's one of the reasons why uh

[1:34:56] visibility is kind of poor in that

[1:34:58] intersection of King and Bridge. So I

[1:35:00] think that would be a great improvement

[1:35:01] as well as, you know, potentially the

[1:35:03] crosswalk on the western, you know,

[1:35:05] going north south on the western side to

[1:35:07] kind of make [clears throat] that box.

[1:35:08] So theoretically safety will be improved

[1:35:11] by some of these u recommendations in

[1:35:14] terms of the sidewalks and whatnot.

[1:35:16] Um any other questions from council?

[1:35:20] >> Yeah, [clears throat]

[1:35:21] the building the architecture that we

[1:35:24] see.

[1:35:25] >> Yes.

[1:35:26] >> This is a public meeting. Is that what

[1:35:28] we're going to see when it's built?

[1:35:32] >> As the architect of the project

[1:35:33] >> that look Yes.

[1:35:34] >> and the developer. Yes. Our intent is to

[1:35:38] deliver uh of course it's an artistic

[1:35:40] rendering and it's not going to be pixel

[1:35:42] for pixel but yes it's going to be a

[1:35:44] brick facade building with an elaborate

[1:35:46] cornice again our our hope was to echo

[1:35:50] what used to be the hires factory that

[1:35:52] was across the street that had very

[1:35:54] similar architectural elements and we

[1:35:55] drew a lot of that in hoping to

[1:35:57] incorporate this as well as other

[1:35:58] historic buildings further down on King

[1:36:00] Street that include some of these

[1:36:01] elements as well. the bay windows. We're

[1:36:04] really trying to play to u Maver's

[1:36:06] historic character. And as like I said,

[1:36:08] this is the gateway. We're heavily

[1:36:10] invested in providing a a true gem for

[1:36:14] when you come over street.

[1:36:15] >> I only bring this up because we've had

[1:36:18] other incidences where we saw something,

[1:36:21] but that's not what was built,

[1:36:24] >> right?

[1:36:25] >> And I'm not questioning, you know, but

[1:36:27] uh I'm glad to hear you're committed to

[1:36:29] that. Thank you. And again, we're not a

[1:36:32] developer who's going to be out of town

[1:36:33] tomorrow. We hold many properties in the

[1:36:35] burrow. I plan to hold these properties

[1:36:37] for my lifetime. So, we're here to stay

[1:36:39] and we want to deliver something that's

[1:36:40] quality. I'm a burough resident. I'm

[1:36:42] going to see it every day. I want it to

[1:36:43] look great, too.

[1:36:46] >> Right. Any other questions for from the

[1:36:48] rest of council?

[1:36:52] All right. Um, anything else, Dan,

[1:36:54] before I open up for public comment?

[1:36:56] >> All right. With that, we'll open it up

[1:36:57] for public comment. Uh, Miss Daddy,

[1:36:59] would you care to comment on the

[1:37:02] uh proposal?

[1:37:11] » Thank you everyone. My name is Cassandra

[1:37:13] Dowy. I live at 145 Woodland Avenue

[1:37:16] right here in the burrow. And

[1:37:20] um, Mr. Car, I'm here to stay too.

[1:37:23] I've been here for almost 15 years.

[1:37:28] I raised my family here and um

[1:37:33] I guess let me just get to the point.

[1:37:35] I'm really excited about this new

[1:37:37] burough council because this is a new

[1:37:40] opportunity for us to vote in favor of

[1:37:44] the residents to vote in favor of

[1:37:46] walkability,

[1:37:48] pedestrian safety, and small town

[1:37:51] livability. Um,

[1:37:54] just wanted to do a to quote from the

[1:37:58] summary of the walkability study from

[1:38:01] 2015.

[1:38:03] Seems like a long time ago, but the

[1:38:06] principles in that study still hold.

[1:38:09] Quote, Mal presents itself to the world

[1:38:12] as a walking community, and we aspire to

[1:38:16] live up to that.

[1:38:18] So, I'm quoting from the walkability

[1:38:20] study because a lot of members from our

[1:38:23] community work very hard on it and it

[1:38:27] was an important study and it the truths

[1:38:29] in that study still hold. The 2018

[1:38:32] multimodality study, the truths in that

[1:38:36] study still hold. The 2022 comprehensive

[1:38:40] plan for our community still hold. This

[1:38:44] plan for Duffren Maher does not line up

[1:38:48] with any of the principles in spirit to

[1:38:51] those studies.

[1:38:54] So until there's an alignment

[1:38:57] and until there's a true effort at from

[1:39:01] this builder to listen to the to listen

[1:39:05] to the residents, I I'm not interested

[1:39:09] in the safety at King and Bridge and all

[1:39:11] the work that you're doing there

[1:39:14] at the expense of the safety at the at

[1:39:18] the um intersection of Roberts and

[1:39:21] Woodland. So you have 300 to 500 new

[1:39:25] traffic units

[1:39:28] based on the 5,000 square foot retail

[1:39:32] medical office space we don't know plus

[1:39:34] the 14 apartments

[1:39:37] going through that intersection every

[1:39:38] day

[1:39:41] driving by a school with 300 school

[1:39:44] students

[1:39:45] who are not all 300 but they're either

[1:39:48] being dropped off in cars school buses

[1:39:51] that are right on Woodland or that yes,

[1:39:53] they are walking to school.

[1:39:58] So, I'm planning on retiring here. I

[1:40:01] have family member a family member with

[1:40:03] a disability

[1:40:05] and I think that the

[1:40:08] legal amb ambiguity

[1:40:11] even still

[1:40:13] regarding the upper floor dwelling units

[1:40:16] >> needs to be looked at.

[1:40:18] >> Z finish your thoughts and

[1:40:21] >> Okay. Thank you.

[1:40:22] >> And I'm just really excited about this

[1:40:24] final vote because I'm

[1:40:26] >> I know you guys will all do the right

[1:40:28] thing. Thank you so much.

[1:40:29] >> Thank you.

[1:40:31] >> Uh Miss Hus,

[1:40:39] » Shannon Hus, 105 Woodland. Um first I do

[1:40:42] want to just say the building does look

[1:40:43] really nice. Um but I am bringing

[1:40:46] concerns about safety. I love that

[1:40:48] you're going to help out on King Street.

[1:40:50] I think that is great, but we are

[1:40:51] forgetting about woodland. We don't know

[1:40:53] what the commercial space is going to

[1:40:54] be. Kids I'm going to piggyback off of

[1:40:58] Cassandra because it is so important.

[1:41:00] Um, kids are playing all day. We also

[1:41:02] have a bus stop at the end of Woodland

[1:41:04] in the mornings. Um, sometimes twice

[1:41:07] depending for elementary as well as high

[1:41:08] school and middle school. Um, so kids

[1:41:10] are walking there early morning. It's

[1:41:12] dark. It's going to be busy coming out.

[1:41:14] We're also forgetting that he has 14 in

[1:41:18] this building and seven in the other

[1:41:20] building. So that brings the total to

[1:41:22] 21, not 19 with having one entrance. So

[1:41:28] we should have two. We're now combining

[1:41:31] these buildings together, which isn't

[1:41:33] okay. If we follow the plans, it should

[1:41:37] have two, not one. That would be safe.

[1:41:41] Also to bring up everybody coming out on

[1:41:44] Woodland, it's going to be blocked.

[1:41:46] Everybody forgets about the buses. I

[1:41:48] will say St. Pat's just started. It is

[1:41:51] blocked. It is It's hard for people on

[1:41:54] Roberts to even get by. It's You can't

[1:41:57] Robert should be right now. I'm just

[1:42:00] bringing it up as safety. Especially if

[1:42:01] this does go through, you should really

[1:42:03] look at Roberts as one way because it

[1:42:06] isn't safe. You can't turn. You're

[1:42:07] blocking. There's people all the way up

[1:42:09] on Woodland. people parked all sides.

[1:42:13] You can't get by. Unfortunately, it's

[1:42:15] not safe. Safety is key. Kids are out

[1:42:19] there riding bikes. All these cars

[1:42:21] coming. People go through the stop

[1:42:23] signs. People come down Woodland the

[1:42:24] wrong way every day. I could count every

[1:42:27] hour at least five cars coming down the

[1:42:30] wrong way. That's just right now. That's

[1:42:32] not okay. It's unsafe. There's a school.

[1:42:35] Kids are outside playing, walking

[1:42:37] around, going to Randolph Woods. That's

[1:42:39] what our town is about. Yes, we want to

[1:42:41] grow and develop, but we need to do it

[1:42:43] safe. We need to look at this project

[1:42:46] and we need to take a step back. If we

[1:42:48] follow the rules and make it safe, then

[1:42:50] it's okay. I do want to thank you for

[1:42:53] listening to us with a lot of our

[1:42:55] concerns. I do want to give you credit

[1:42:57] for that. But we still have work on this

[1:42:59] project that we need to do when it comes

[1:43:01] back to safety. And we are continuing to

[1:43:03] grow and it is about the children and

[1:43:05] family here. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.

[1:43:08] Buckley.

[1:43:12] » This is not against you, but I don't

[1:43:14] want to say so. Um, I'm just going to It

[1:43:19] may sound against you, but this is the

[1:43:20] whole point. Um, all right.

[1:43:23] All this stuff about this, these people

[1:43:26] wouldn't be fighting. He gets what he

[1:43:29] wants if you just put a light at that

[1:43:31] bridge before some kids get there. And

[1:43:34] if we can get the light for free and it

[1:43:36] ain't costing him, he gets what he want.

[1:43:39] And these people out here get what they

[1:43:41] want because all the traffic when they

[1:43:43] come out of his property, they're going

[1:43:45] to come up to Robert and nine out of 10,

[1:43:48] I bet you they go down to um Wooden to

[1:43:50] First Avenue. If I'm wrong, I'll

[1:43:53] apologize, but prove me wrong first. And

[1:43:55] traffic studies, they ain't know been

[1:43:57] those traffic. When was the last traffic

[1:43:59] stud? Like 10 years ago. Five at least.

[1:44:03] Yes, it was because you can't get a

[1:44:06] traffic light at the bridge and that's

[1:44:07] more light more traffic at the bridge

[1:44:09] and when they come over that bridge it's

[1:44:12] going to take a villa girl to get hit

[1:44:14] because you never put a sidewalk on that

[1:44:17] side of the bridge to let that people on

[1:44:19] Woodland Avenue like her cross on that side of the bridge. It's a safety

[1:44:24] issue there.

[1:44:25] >> I'll be back.

[1:44:27] >> All right. So, I think Mr. car has

[1:44:29] already done a study with the larger the

[1:44:32] prior plan with more units and that

[1:44:35] intersection at bridg and king public

[1:44:38] safety subcommittee has looked at that

[1:44:39] we had our traffic engineer look at that

[1:44:41] we determined that the flow of traffic

[1:44:43] would be better can't remember exactly

[1:44:45] what it was maybe moving southbound from

[1:44:50] bridge onto King uh but traffic in

[1:44:54] general wouldn't be improved in terms of

[1:44:55] speediness uh and we believe that it

[1:44:58] would actually, like I mentioned

[1:45:00] earlier, create more of a safety problem

[1:45:02] for pedestrians at that intersection

[1:45:05] with a light. There a time may come

[1:45:07] where we may put the flashing lights

[1:45:09] that were similar to in front of East

[1:45:11] Side Flats at that intersection. We have

[1:45:13] concerns about uh the reliability of

[1:45:16] them. The ones that we currently use

[1:45:19] fail all the time uh and then they

[1:45:21] become even more unsafe, right? So,

[1:45:23] we're looking into trying to make them

[1:45:25] better. But John, we've discussed this

[1:45:28] with you at every meeting you attend.

[1:45:30] So, thank you for your comment.

[1:45:33] >> Don't work there.

[1:45:34] >> Miss Ruts,

[1:45:35] >> they don't work.

[1:45:36] >> Mr. Buckley, you had your opportunity.

[1:45:39] Mr. Buckley, please stop interrupting.

[1:45:41] >> Barbara Ruts, Monument Avenue. I would

[1:45:43] just like to first of all thank the cars

[1:45:46] for the tremendous amount of work that

[1:45:48] they've taken the time to do with over a

[1:45:50] year and changing as many things as

[1:45:54] they've changed. Um, I one of the other

[1:45:57] speakers I would just like to say

[1:46:00] Wendy said that we can't require a

[1:46:02] builder to fix problems that are already

[1:46:05] there. And what I hear is that the

[1:46:07] traffic on Roberts is horrendous with

[1:46:09] the school buses. It's not this building

[1:46:11] that's going to be causing any more

[1:46:13] problems than what there already are.

[1:46:15] And I think since you'll be considering

[1:46:18] voting on this, I would just like to say

[1:46:20] I think that he's done a tremendous job.

[1:46:23] I like the way it looks. He's made it

[1:46:25] smaller.

[1:46:26] I don't think that it's going to cause a

[1:46:30] whole lot more problems than there

[1:46:31] already are. And I think we should work

[1:46:33] on fixing the problems that there are,

[1:46:36] not um turning down somebody who really

[1:46:40] has a vested interest in Malvin. It's

[1:46:42] not like somebody coming in that did

[1:46:45] another big development here. and he's

[1:46:49] big enough that he didn't listen to

[1:46:51] anybody, made promises, didn't quite

[1:46:54] live up to his promises. He lives here,

[1:46:57] but I I just think that these are people

[1:47:01] that live here and have a vested

[1:47:02] interest and they don't want the

[1:47:04] community to be awful and I would say

[1:47:07] that I support them and I think we

[1:47:10] should work some other way on fixing the

[1:47:13] traffic problems that we have because we

[1:47:15] have a lot and they're not just right

[1:47:16] there.

[1:47:18] Thank you. And I'm sure everyone's aware

[1:47:20] this town existed before we had cars,

[1:47:25] giant SUVs, right? I mean, this was a

[1:47:28] town with horse and buggy, right? And

[1:47:30] carriages. And so, you know, our roads

[1:47:32] weren't designed for this. That

[1:47:34] intersection, one of the reasons why

[1:47:35] it's tough is because the flying pig is

[1:47:37] so close to that intersection. And you

[1:47:39] know, where you approach uh modern cars,

[1:47:42] what that front beam in your car that

[1:47:44] supports the windshield, it's called the

[1:47:45] A-pillar. We know that there's a blind

[1:47:47] spot there and hopefully this project

[1:47:49] when they iron out the kink in uh King

[1:47:52] Street, hopefully it improves visibility

[1:47:54] and people can see traffic on Bridge

[1:47:56] Street from King and aren't blinded

[1:47:58] with, you know, by not being able to see

[1:48:00] through their apillar of their car. So,

[1:48:02] we know we have issues and we're doing

[1:48:04] what we can to solve them. Uh, and I

[1:48:07] know that Roberts, I believe there was

[1:48:08] parking on both sides of the street and

[1:48:10] when I first got on council, we removed

[1:48:12] some of the parking on the one side to

[1:48:13] try to improve it. So, we're doing our

[1:48:17] best. Mr. Petty John,

[1:48:20] >> we're going to make my way up here

[1:48:21] again. Harry P Street. Um, yes, the cars

[1:48:25] have done a lot of work um to make the

[1:48:28] changes that were required. Um, wasn't

[1:48:32] out of the goodness of their hearts. It

[1:48:33] was mandated. Um, however, um, we're not

[1:48:38] there yet. Uh, and the safety is a

[1:48:41] problem. And while you can't for tell a

[1:48:44] builder that they have to fix an

[1:48:46] existing problem, that is correct and

[1:48:48] doesn't always happen. Other townships

[1:48:50] take advantage. Um, [clears throat] but

[1:48:53] they're not at the

[1:48:56] requirement yet. There's still too too

[1:48:59] many units. And if they go down to

[1:49:01] what's

[1:49:03] the requirement, then there is nothing

[1:49:05] else to do.

[1:49:07] But they're not there. They still have

[1:49:10] too many units.

[1:49:11] and the square footage of the commercial

[1:49:14] space. While that has a traffic count

[1:49:17] that's uh allotted for what will end up

[1:49:20] happening is when the cars find tenants,

[1:49:23] a tenant has to come in for their

[1:49:25] permits and then they have to come in

[1:49:27] for their variant. They're going to

[1:49:28] they're we're going to have to give them

[1:49:30] waiverss because maybe it's a high

[1:49:32] traffic business like a medical place um

[1:49:35] or maybe a restaurant that doesn't have

[1:49:37] enough parking. We don't know that yet.

[1:49:39] That's an unknown. So that's why we have

[1:49:42] a lot of these rules to try to

[1:49:44] accommodate for those unknowns. That's

[1:49:45] why he's two too many apartments. Just

[1:49:48] is I think you still need to cut it.

[1:49:51] Owen, I think you need to cut it to

[1:49:52] apartments. And then you're within the

[1:49:54] zoning. There's nothing left to do. But

[1:49:56] that that's this council's job to hold

[1:49:59] them to what our current ordinance is.

[1:50:02] It is our current zone zoning ordinance.

[1:50:05] Or they have to have two driveways,

[1:50:06] which they you can't. So get it down to

[1:50:09] the right number.

[1:50:11] >> Thank you.

[1:50:11] >> All right. Thank you. And just the

[1:50:13] record, they are not the or the waiverss

[1:50:15] they're requesting are preliminary final

[1:50:18] plan being the same. Correct me then if

[1:50:20] I'm wrong. Uh King Street cartway width,

[1:50:23] right, which they're we're not going to

[1:50:25] widen King Street. The curb height, so

[1:50:27] it conforms to the same curb heights.

[1:50:30] Street trees, which the shade tree

[1:50:32] commission is okay with. Property line

[1:50:35] grading, which it sounds like you're

[1:50:36] okay with. in the storm water which they

[1:50:38] have no way to correct because there's

[1:50:41] no storm sewers on King right there's

[1:50:44] nothing about size there's nothing about

[1:50:47] number of units there's nothing about

[1:50:49] they're okay with number of parking

[1:50:51] spaces correct uh they don't they aren't

[1:50:53] requesting a waiver uh to have two

[1:50:59] you know they don't require two

[1:51:01] ingresses and egresses right they're the waiverss I described are the only

[1:51:05] things that We are considering.

[1:51:07] >> Yes. So, yes. So, is that So, sorry if

[1:51:10] we're having a conversation. I like to

[1:51:11] have a conversation.

[1:51:11] >> No, I'm asking Dan. I

[1:51:13] >> Okay. Well, you were seem like you're

[1:51:14] rebutting what I was saying.

[1:51:15] >> No, I'm just making sure everyone is

[1:51:16] aware of what it is.

[1:51:18] >> Well, then then I do believe when the

[1:51:20] planning commission sent their their approval with the traffic study

[1:51:24] being has to be done was because of the

[1:51:27] size and the volume because we just

[1:51:28] don't know what the unit count is. It is

[1:51:29] a lot of cars. There's a lot of cars

[1:51:31] going on oneway street in front of a

[1:51:33] school. and to just be like, "Oh well,

[1:51:37] we have traffic. Oh well, that's that's irresponsible on our end."

[1:51:42] Thanks.

[1:51:44] All right. Uh, Mr. McCain,

[1:51:58] Stacy Petty, John, 139 Church Street.

[1:52:03] Justice is the recognition of rights

[1:52:05] that exist by nature. Certain rights

[1:52:07] exist before any ordinance or council

[1:52:10] vote. They are recognized, not invented.

[1:52:12] When a legal system treats those rights

[1:52:14] as gifts it can redefine at will,

[1:52:17] justice becomes whatever the stronger

[1:52:19] party can impose.

[1:52:21] Fairness is the working rule that makes

[1:52:24] justice visible. Like cases are treated

[1:52:27] alike. that the same standard applies to

[1:52:30] the citizen and the official, the

[1:52:32] applicant and the objector. Fairness is

[1:52:35] not that everyone gets the same outcome.

[1:52:38] It is that no one is measured by a

[1:52:40] secret ruler. Liberty is in the

[1:52:43] security, the the predictability of law

[1:52:46] and the knowledge that officials

[1:52:48] themselves are bound. Without that,

[1:52:51] liberty is only a slogan. The three

[1:52:53] belong together. Rights that cannot be

[1:52:56] secured are not rights in practice. A

[1:52:58] process that is not fair cannot secure

[1:53:01] them. That is the test on Duffare. Judge

[1:53:05] Verway's ruling allowed this matter to

[1:53:07] start a new and required that the word

[1:53:09] create be given its proper meaning. This

[1:53:12] application creates new apartments on an

[1:53:15] assemblage that already holds seven. It

[1:53:19] creates added commercial. It creates new

[1:53:22] traffic on King and Woodland. You are

[1:53:25] not required to allow the two extra

[1:53:28] apartments Duffer More is still asking.

[1:53:30] You are required to apply the zoning

[1:53:33] ordinance and the SAO as written. A true

[1:53:36] traffic study before any commitment is

[1:53:38] not a courtesy. It is the evidence the

[1:53:41] same rule demands. A study deferred

[1:53:44] letters deferred until after the burrow

[1:53:46] is already bound is a different ruler

[1:53:48] for this applicant. To allow more

[1:53:51] apartments than what the code permits

[1:53:53] and to skip the traffic study the code

[1:53:55] exists to compel is an abortion of our

[1:53:59] existing laws and of the power that the

[1:54:02] people of this town invested in you not

[1:54:05] to manage a project around the ordinance

[1:54:08] but to secure the ordinance for everyone

[1:54:10] who must live with the result. Does this

[1:54:14] process secure the rights under the same

[1:54:16] rule for everyone or does it merely

[1:54:19] manage them? Please hold Duffer more to

[1:54:22] the laws we already have. Thank you.

[1:54:25] >> Thank you. Do we have anyone else who

[1:54:27] would care to make public comment?

[1:54:30] All right. Uh ma'am

[1:54:37] » and please state your name for the

[1:54:39] minutes.

[1:54:41] Um, my name is Cindy Curry. I live at

[1:54:43] 135 Woodland.

[1:54:46] And I think most of what's need to be

[1:54:48] said uh has been said, but I'll say one

[1:54:50] more thing. So, with 30 parking spaces,

[1:54:55] 14 apartments,

[1:54:58] assuming two people will live in each or

[1:55:00] pretty close to that. And assuming

[1:55:03] they'll be paying a decent rent, um,

[1:55:06] they're probably going to have assigned

[1:55:07] parking. Or at least I would want that.

[1:55:09] It's a tenant.

[1:55:11] So, we're looking at 28 spaces

[1:55:15] gone now for the people that live there.

[1:55:17] So, that leaves two spaces

[1:55:20] for 5,000 square ft of retail shoppers,

[1:55:23] people that work there.

[1:55:26] Where are they going to park? Well,

[1:55:29] probably not on monument. So,

[1:55:33] well, they might. And if it's too much,

[1:55:35] I am sure we'll

[1:55:36] >> For the record, ma'am, uh you can't

[1:55:38] address the

[1:55:39] >> public. You have to address Bur County.

[1:55:40] >> Sorry about that. Um so again, 30

[1:55:45] parking spaces, 28 of them will be gone

[1:55:48] for the people that live there and two

[1:55:50] [clears throat] remaining. So they're

[1:55:52] going to be parked on Woodland, on

[1:55:55] Roberts, etc., etc. It's it's not

[1:55:59] responsible. It's too big. It's a prime

[1:56:05] spot of real estate. I'm sure a lot of

[1:56:07] developers would love to have that spot.

[1:56:10] It's a beautiful building. It's the same

[1:56:13] photo that's been up since the

[1:56:15] beginning.

[1:56:17] So, maybe less apartments, but it's

[1:56:19] still too big. And we that live here and

[1:56:24] our children that live close to that are

[1:56:27] the ones that are affected. people that

[1:56:30] work there and shop there have to have

[1:56:32] somewhere to park.

[1:56:35] And right now it leaves our streets

[1:56:38] where we live.

[1:56:40] I can't even get parking even on a

[1:56:43] Sunday.

[1:56:45] So it's not they speak of the ordinances

[1:56:48] and the sal and all that stuff that I

[1:56:50] don't really know much about. I'm just

[1:56:52] using a little common sense. It's a

[1:56:54] monstrosity. It's it's not the right

[1:56:58] building. However pretty it is

[1:57:01] for that size space. That's all. Thank

[1:57:05] you.

[1:57:05] >> All right. Thank you. All right. Uh

[1:57:08] looks like everyone's had a chance to

[1:57:10] make public comment. Uh Nicole, what are

[1:57:13] your thoughts on I know we have a number

[1:57:14] of other topics.

[1:57:17] >> One final com.

[1:57:17] >> Oh, I'm sorry. Miss Titus wanted to say

[1:57:19] throughout this process, speaking of

[1:57:20] volunteerism tonight, it's been a real

[1:57:22] pleasure working with the Burough Malvin

[1:57:23] from the Shade Tree Commission that as

[1:57:25] volunteers, the planning commission, the

[1:57:26] countless hours I spent with them, the

[1:57:28] burrow council, as well as the

[1:57:30] professional staff. It's been a real

[1:57:31] pleasure. So, I just want to thank you

[1:57:32] guys for all that you do to make this

[1:57:34] community great.

[1:57:35] >> All right. Thank you. Um Nicole, are

[1:57:37] there any agenda items you would think

[1:57:39] that we could postpone? I know we have

[1:57:41] some like the uh

[1:57:44] >> have to do

[1:57:45] >> we have to do the trash bids dodge Ram

[1:57:47] probably anything

[1:57:50] >> the Ram

[1:57:51] >> Ram can come wait okay

[1:57:53] >> but um

[1:57:54] >> we have to do

[1:57:55] >> when is the conference

[1:57:57] >> the conference is um October

[1:58:02] >> October 7th

[1:58:04] >> Oh the the um

[1:58:06] >> it says October

[1:58:08] >> um the resolution to to make the uh the

[1:58:12] >> you can ratify

[1:58:13] >> voting member that's going to be a

[1:58:14] quickie and we have to do the trash

[1:58:16] bids.

[1:58:17] >> Okay.

[1:58:18] >> But the truck sale can wait.

[1:58:19] >> These are all considerations. So it's

[1:58:21] only for discussion. There's no action

[1:58:23] tonight.

[1:58:24] >> Okay. Sounds good.

[1:58:25] >> Yeah. But on the tra on the trash, we

[1:58:27] have to talk about it tonight.

[1:58:29] >> Talk about trash. We have to award

[1:58:31] items.

[1:58:32] >> All right. So, let's hold off on

[1:58:33] everything but trash. And what was the

[1:58:35] other room said?

[1:58:36] >> Voting uh me. You have

[1:58:38] >> and the escrow. You have to do the

[1:58:40] escrow.

[1:58:40] >> Oh, the escrow release, right?

[1:58:41] >> Also, quick

[1:58:43] >> escrow. Um, so E and G and um the trash

[1:58:47] bid. So E and G and then we can go back

[1:58:49] to the trash bid.

[1:58:50] >> So do we have to vote to amend the

[1:58:52] agenda or

[1:58:55] » um

[1:58:57] Well, we can just table the trash.

[1:58:59] >> Let's let's table everything and we'll

[1:59:01] move on to uh trash and recycling

[1:59:04] collection bids.

[1:59:06] >> Yeah.

[1:59:07] Okay. So, table

[1:59:09] >> um

[1:59:10] >> So, you're going to table C, you're

[1:59:12] going to table

[1:59:14] >> F.

[1:59:17] >> Do you want Do you want me to talk about

[1:59:19] that, Nicole?

[1:59:20] >> What? Which one?

[1:59:21] >> The trash bit.

[1:59:22] >> Yes. Go ahead.

[1:59:22] >> Yeah. So, um we got uh um I think it was

[1:59:28] five alto together. Um there are what it

[1:59:32] comes down to is we got we got a lot

[1:59:34] more bids actually than the last time

[1:59:37] which was very nice. There's two

[1:59:39] newcomers to the business locally. Um

[1:59:44] the two there there were a couple that

[1:59:47] were way high. There was um one company

[1:59:52] that didn't bid. They said they weren't

[1:59:55] going to they just wanted to let us know

[1:59:57] that the burrow is basically too small.

[2:00:00] So anyway, we have we have two bids. Um,

[2:00:04] one is Bzenski, which is our current

[2:00:07] hauler. The the other low bidder is a

[2:00:12] new company called Unique Waste

[2:00:14] Solutions.

[2:00:16] Um the issue is whether um unique waste

[2:00:22] and blazinski are qualified. Mascaro and

[2:00:27] optendaker are are way higher. So

[2:00:32] um

[2:00:34] unique is very new. They did not

[2:00:38] entirely comply with the bidding

[2:00:41] instructions. they did not supply all

[2:00:45] the information that was required. Um so

[2:00:50] we we what the staff needs to do and

[2:00:53] probably uh one of the committees is

[2:00:57] look at whether um unique is not just

[2:01:03] the lowest bidder but the lowest

[2:01:05] qualified bidder. And if not, because of

[2:01:09] whatever circumstances exist, in

[2:01:12] addition to the fact that they didn't

[2:01:14] comply with the instructions,

[2:01:17] um they they may be eliminated from the menu. Um and we'll figure that out

[2:01:26] before the next meeting and the staff

[2:01:29] will have a recommendation for you.

[2:01:31] >> So, what does that look like? see and

[2:01:33] trying to ensure they're qualified like

[2:01:34] co calling towns that they service or

[2:01:36] >> well they don't service any towns that's

[2:01:38] part of the problem with them but

[2:01:41] >> company that doesn't

[2:01:42] >> they they do they don't do municipal

[2:01:45] they do HOAs and they do individual

[2:01:49] um but it will we'll dig a little deeper

[2:01:53] into uh they didn't supply any financial

[2:01:56] data

[2:01:58] um as I said they didn't comply with the

[2:02:01] instructions and which technically is

[2:02:04] enough to throw throw it out anyway. But

[2:02:08] in public bidding, you have to be really

[2:02:10] careful and we need if some if they come

[2:02:12] back or somebody else says, "Oh, you

[2:02:14] know, they were lower by $20,000. Why

[2:02:17] didn't you?" Well, there's not only did

[2:02:20] they not fulfill the instructions, but

[2:02:23] we have investigated. They're they're

[2:02:27] not they they didn't give us any

[2:02:29] information like the other companies did

[2:02:31] as to how many vehicles they have. Um

[2:02:35] it's a one from what I've determined so

[2:02:38] far it's a corporation but it's a sole

[2:02:41] member LLC which means it's really one

[2:02:45] guy and some employees. Um he's and I

[2:02:49] I've you know I've between Dan and I

[2:02:53] we've learned some information.

[2:02:56] Blazinski was really forthcoming with we

[2:03:01] had a list of every piece of equipment

[2:03:04] on their lot and numbers of you know and

[2:03:07] they've been our hauler for a long time.

[2:03:10] So, if we're if we're going to pick

[2:03:12] Blazinski over Unique, we have to have

[2:03:17] solid justification for that. And um I'm

[2:03:21] predicting that that will be the case at

[2:03:23] the next meeting. And the staff when

[2:03:26] they make their recommendation will tell

[2:03:28] you why.

[2:03:30] >> You said that you weren't sure that

[2:03:32] Bluinski was qualified. What? Why would

[2:03:34] >> No, I I I said when you get down to

[2:03:38] um you know, you've got some that are

[2:03:39] way high

[2:03:41] um and then you've got two that are

[2:03:44] comparable to each other, including your

[2:03:46] current holder. The you know, you're

[2:03:48] looking to make sure you have the lowest

[2:03:51] qualified bidder. Blazinski, when you

[2:03:54] look at it that way, this one's

[2:03:56] qualified for sure. This one, we don't

[2:03:59] know. So, it's not that I suspect

[2:04:02] they're unqualified. It's just, you

[2:04:04] know, you kind of have to take them and

[2:04:07] look at them that way.

[2:04:10] >> Can can I ask it how how do these

[2:04:12] numbers like the 242

[2:04:15] compare to what we would expect in our budget?

[2:04:21] >> Like how does it compare to what we've

[2:04:22] been paying the past few years? Is that

[2:04:24] what you're

[2:04:24] >> I mean, yeah, for for the building next

[2:04:27] year's budget. you know how I don't

[2:04:30] remember the number for this year for

[2:04:32] example. How does it compare?

[2:04:36] >> Um well that we can put that in the the staff can put that in the

[2:04:41] recommendation. The um

[2:04:44] my from my recollection we're in the

[2:04:46] right ballpark. The other thing that council will uh what well you need

[2:04:53] to look at what's in your packet because

[2:04:56] Sylvie has done a huge tabulation that

[2:04:59] goes deeper than this because we had

[2:05:02] them bid on a number of scenarios

[2:05:06] um a base contract of one year two year

[2:05:12] three years and then some number of

[2:05:14] renewals. So those numbers are are

[2:05:18] different and Sylvy's laid those all

[2:05:20] out. So you could um consider which of

[2:05:27] the options we set out you you want. Um

[2:05:31] so there in that regard you need to put

[2:05:34] on your um you know what was it that

[2:05:37] turban that Johnny Carson used to put

[2:05:40] on. You and I remember that but nobody

[2:05:41] else does.

[2:05:43] >> Our neck. Yeah. and say, "Well, if

[2:05:45] inflation is going to continue to go up,

[2:05:48] we should take the three-year with three

[2:05:52] renewals." But if you think prices are

[2:05:55] going to plummet, you may want to do the

[2:05:58] one year with fewer renewals is whatever

[2:06:01] you pick, you're going to be locked into

[2:06:03] it for some number of years. So, those

[2:06:06] are things that you still need.

[2:06:07] >> 24 It's a $2,400 difference between on

[2:06:09] bidc between the the Bzinski and Unique

[2:06:12] Waste. Unique Waste does not have

[2:06:14] comparables. They did not have anything

[2:06:16] that they like they did not come forward

[2:06:18] with a legitimate thing. So the really

[2:06:20] the question is is it worth $2,400 for

[2:06:23] three years to have the current provider

[2:06:26] >> take the risk, right?

[2:06:27] >> Yeah.

[2:06:28] >> So that's the that's the question.

[2:06:29] >> Yeah. And then we have to document that

[2:06:31] because you know trash bids.

[2:06:34] >> I don't I don't So like So let's let's

[2:06:36] end the conversation. We can document

[2:06:38] the things that they didn't qualify for.

[2:06:40] I agree with you. All I have to do is

[2:06:42] have is have that listed

[2:06:43] >> and is there any

[2:06:45] >> This has gone a very long conversation

[2:06:48] right. Yeah. So just cover our bases

[2:06:50] from a legal standpoint. I guess

[2:06:52] >> I I have I mean you know you've got the

[2:06:54] data. We have to write it down. We have

[2:06:57] to award it at the next meeting.

[2:06:59] >> You know everybody it's all on the table

[2:07:01] now. So

[2:07:02] >> yep. Let's write it down. Let's move on.

[2:07:04] >> I do have to open it up for public

[2:07:05] comment. Mr. Buckley.

[2:07:11] All right. Um, when it's faster

[2:07:15] some days I brought I said it to the bur

[2:07:18] too about it. Um,

[2:07:19] >> all right, John. I'm going to cut you

[2:07:21] off because this is not about um

[2:07:24] complaints about pickup or missed

[2:07:27] pickups or anything in the street. So,

[2:07:30] that's

[2:07:30] >> how our money these taxpayers pay.

[2:07:33] >> You're off. That's not on the agenda,

[2:07:35] >> right? We're talking about

[2:07:36] >> that's it. It's irrelevant.

[2:07:38] >> And again, John, you can take your

[2:07:40] concerns and talk to bro to burrow

[2:07:42] administration during office hours.

[2:07:44] Okay.

[2:07:46] >> All right. Uh, anybody else?

[2:07:48] >> Sir, and just state your name for the

[2:07:50] minutes, please.

[2:07:53] >> Hi, my name is Andrew Casey. I'm from AJ

[2:07:56] Blissinski. I just want to say that, you

[2:07:58] know, I do have 27 municipal contracts

[2:08:00] right now. I have been your provider for

[2:08:03] quite some time and I'd really love the

[2:08:05] opportunity to partner with you again to

[2:08:08] keep your burrow clean.

[2:08:10] >> Thanks.

[2:08:10] >> Thank you for showing up.

[2:08:12] >> Um,

[2:08:13] >> anyone else? All right, let's move on.

[2:08:15] Uh, consider the escro release in the

[2:08:16] amount of $17,980.3

[2:08:20] for 155 Channing Avenue. Dan,

[2:08:22] >> yep, that's the project here at the

[2:08:24] corner of Channing and first and uh

[2:08:26] they've completed all their work uh

[2:08:27] storm water. Um, the house has been

[2:08:29] sold. They've made the repairs out in

[2:08:31] the street. Um, everything is complete.

[2:08:32] I recommend that we close that project

[2:08:34] out and release the final escro funds

[2:08:36] for that.

[2:08:36] >> Sounds good. [clears throat] Um, any

[2:08:39] concerns?

[2:08:40] >> Uh, public comment. All right. Nobody.

[2:08:43] Uh, next to consider the appointment for

[2:08:45] of a voting delegate for the resolutions

[2:08:47] committee for PML summit on Thursday,

[2:08:50] October 1st, 2026. Uh, Nicole, what is

[2:08:54] this? I guess

[2:08:55] >> we're members of PML. annual summit is

[2:08:58] in Hershey, PA this year. Is anyone

[2:09:01] planning on going? Any of you planning

[2:09:03] on?

[2:09:03] >> I don't know that I was aware of it. So,

[2:09:05] >> okay. So, I'll share it with you. Um and

[2:09:07] then you can um appoint a delegate and

[2:09:11] um a voting and an alternate delegate if

[2:09:13] anyone um wants to go. I haven't decided

[2:09:16] if I'm planning on going yet, but we can

[2:09:18] decide in two weeks. But that's what

[2:09:20] that is. It's a resolution has to be

[2:09:21] sent in.

[2:09:22] >> Okay. Any questions from council?

[2:09:25] >> Nope. public comment. No. All right.

[2:09:27] There's no new business. Do I have a

[2:09:28] motion to adjurnn?

[2:09:30] >> Do I have a second?

[2:09:31] >> Second.

Malvern Borough Council Meeting - 09.01.2026

Agenda

Transcript