[10:18] Fix this. >> What's wrong?

[10:31] Please say something. >> I can barely hear you.

[10:34] » Say something. >> Karen, we need we need a sound check

[10:38] from you. Keep talking. >> Okay. I can barely hear Brian. I can

[10:43] barely hear Rob. I hear Mike very well. >> I hear I hear

[10:53] » Gale. I don't think I heard it. >> No, we got to live with it.

[10:56] » You didn't talk. >> It's the um if we speak into the

[11:00] microphone, Karen, you can hear us. >> Okay, I hear you perfectly.

[11:04] » Thank you. >> Do we have anyone else on?

[11:11] Okay. So,

[11:59] is a barn. >> Okay, we're on.

[12:04] » Good evening everyone. Welcome to the meeting of the Mashby Planning Board.

[12:08] Today is Wednesday, February 4th, 2026. The time is 6:30. Um we're meeting at

[12:13] Mashp Town Hall, McCoy meeting room 16 Great Neck Road North, Mashby,

[12:18] Massachusetts 02649. We're being broadcast live on channels 8

[12:23] and 1072. The meeting is recorded. Um it's streamed live on town of Mashby

[12:29] website www.mmashbma.gov/

[12:34] channel-8. Um the meeting will be rebroadcast. To

[12:39] join the meeting via Zoom, the meeting ID is 971 2130-5251.

[12:46] The meeting ID is 971-2130-5251

[12:50] and the password is 268-280. That's 2-68-280.

[12:56] That information is on our um agenda that was posted with the town clerk. So,

[13:00] I'd like to welcome everyone um and invite you all to rise with me to recite

[13:05] the pledge of allegiance. [clears throat]

[13:09] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

[13:13] republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[13:19] justice for all. >> Thank you. First order of business is

[13:25] approval of minutes. We have two sets of minutes. January 10th um 2026 and the

[13:31] minutes of our meeting on January 21st, 2026. I reviewed them um quickly. I

[13:37] didn't see any um edits or corrections. Does anybody have any edits or

[13:40] corrections to these sets of minutes? >> No.

[13:45] » Okay. I'll take a motion to um approve um the minutes of January 10th, 2026 as

[13:52] presented. >> Is there a second?

[13:54] » Second. >> Second.

[13:56] » Oh, you know what I got to do? I have to open up the meeting by roll call vote

[13:59] because we have somebody remoting in. Sorry. So, um who's present? Michael.

[14:06] Yes, >> Dennis.

[14:08] » Yes, >> Dale.

[14:09] » Yes, >> Cameron Faulner.

[14:11] » Yes, >> Rob.

[14:13] » Yes, >> Mary Wagan. So, all our votes have to be

[14:16] by roll call vote. So, um we have a first and a second for the minutes of

[14:20] January 10th, 2026. Um

[14:25] by roll call vote, Michael, >> yes.

[14:27] » Dennis, >> yes.

[14:28] » Dale, >> abstain.

[14:30] » Karen, >> yes.

[14:32] » Mary is a yes. Um the minutes of January 21st, 2026. Do I have a motion to

[14:39] approve as presented? >> So be second.

[14:43] » There's a second. Thank you. By roll any discussion by roll call vote. Michael,

[14:48] » yes. >> Dennis,

[14:49] » yes. >> Dale,

[14:50] » yes. >> Karen,

[14:51] » yes. >> Mary, yes. Okay. All right. We have a

[14:55] public hearing. Um we did get a uh request to continue that, but we'll have

[15:00] to do that at 6:40. Um,

[15:06] there are invoices.

[15:09] » Yes, there are.

[15:13] » I'm going to um, regarding the invoices, I'm just going to recommend we hold back

[15:17] the uh, 2026 invoice number 2352 for Island Pickle. I'd like the opportunity

[15:23] to discuss that invoice with the applicant. He had uh expressed some well

[15:29] he had made a request to be able to review invoices. Um

[15:33] » okay so um the the chair will table invoice number 2026-2352.

[15:43] » Okay. We'll put that on the next >> agenda.

[15:47] » Okay.

[15:51] » All right. We have five minutes. Um okay. We have an invoice number

[15:55] 2026-2348.

[15:59] The project location is 474 Main Street and 31 Schumit Road. The balance due is

[16:06] 1,76769.

[16:11] The work is travel time review plans and letter travel and attendance to planning

[16:15] board meetings. Is there a motion to approve payment?

[16:22] » So be. Is there a second? >> Second.

[16:27] » Okay. Any discussion? By roll call vote. Michael,

[16:31] » yes. >> Dennis,

[16:32] » yes. >> Dale,

[16:33] » yes. >> Karen,

[16:35] » yes. >> Mary, yes. Oh, no. I'm sorry. I'm going

[16:37] to abstain. >> Yes.

[16:40] » Okay. Next invoice. 2026-2349.

[16:46] This is Osprey Court, Great Oak Road subdivision. The amount is $1,71855.

[16:56] This is for travel time preparation of emails with contractor regarding rosion

[17:00] control uh erosion control and travel and attendance at planning board

[17:05] meetings. Is there a motion to ex uh to uh approve payment?

[17:10] » So second >> Dale's a second. Any discussion by roll

[17:15] call vote. Michael, >> yes.

[17:17] » Dennis, >> yes.

[17:18] » Dale, >> yes. Karen,

[17:20] » yes. >> Mary's a yes.

[17:24] » The next one is 20 2026-2350 for the amount of $2,164.38.

[17:33] Um, the work is at Country Club Estates. Um this is the attend this is for

[17:39] attendance at planning board meetings, travel and site visits to conduct to

[17:42] review existing conditions meet with contractor review construction plans and

[17:47] [snorts] at travel and attendance at planning board meetings.

[17:50] Is there a motion to accept? >> So be second.

[17:55] » And Dale's a second. Now these funds this 21164

[18:01] does this come out of >> this at present is coming out of the

[18:05] department budget >> and we still have money for that.

[18:08] » Uh yes it is funded. Um it is it is funded. I I do want to now that we have

[18:14] new engineers and uh you know this uh departmental funding of these invoices

[18:20] predated my tenure in the planning department. I do want to have a

[18:23] conversation with our new engineers and with the applicant about um the most

[18:29] appropriate path forward. >> Okay.

[18:32] » But we have money to cover this. Okay. Good.

[18:35] » Um by roll call vote. >> Yes.

[18:37] » Michael, that was Michael. Dennis, >> yes.

[18:39] » Dale, >> yes.

[18:40] » Karen, >> yes.

[18:42] » Mary is a yes. Okay. Um, next one is 2606-2351

[18:50] for the amount of $1,951.38.

[18:54] This is for Willow Circle engineering peer review and construction inspection

[18:59] plans. This is for travel and uh site visit emails with Mr. Miller Scott

[19:05] Miller regarding final work items evaluation estimate and preparation of

[19:09] email report for Willow Circle bond reduction request. also travel in

[19:14] attendance to planning board meetings. So, this the project proponent is paying

[19:20] for, right? Correct. Okay. Is there a um a motion to approve the payment of this?

[19:25] » Yes. So, be >> is there a second?

[19:28] » Second. >> Any comments by roll call vote? Michael?

[19:32] » Yes. >> Dennis?

[19:33] » Yes. >> Dale?

[19:34] » Yes. >> Karen?

[19:36] » Yes. >> Mary is a yes.

[19:39] » The next one is a hold. That's 20263552. The last one is 2026-2353.

[19:47] It's for $95. It's review of an ANR at 17 and 23 Alma Road.

[19:56] Now, this is something that comes out of our department budget.

[19:59] » This is department >> and we have money to cover this.

[20:02] » Yeah. Actually, we may we may have it's funded either way. We may have received

[20:07] um some money from the applicant for it, but it's it is funded either way.

[20:12] » All right. I'd take a mo I'd accept a motion to approve.

[20:14] » It's $95. So be >> Is there a second?

[20:19] » Second. >> Second.

[20:20] » I'll in um any any discussion by roll call vote. Michael,

[20:25] » yes. >> Dennis,

[20:26] » yes. >> Dale,

[20:27] » yes. >> Karen,

[20:28] » yes. >> Mary is a yes. Okay.

[20:33] » Okay. Excuse [clears throat]

[20:41] me.

[20:44] Seeing that the appointed time has arrived, uh the chair opens up the

[20:48] public hearing. The applica of 6 scheduled for 6:40 tonight. The

[20:52] applicant is Shellback Development LLC. The location is 647 Falmouth Road, 9

[20:58] Shellback Way, Mashby, Mass. The assessor's map is 81 parcel 132. The

[21:02] request is a special permit to construct a 13,229

[21:06] plus or minus square foot realy specialty realy grocery store on 3.97

[21:12] plus or minus acres of undeveloped land pursuant to sections 17424 C and 1742E1

[21:19] and E2 of the Mash zoning bylaw. So, we received um a request from the project

[21:25] proponent to continue um the matter um to February 18th.

[21:34] » Is Mary Wagan on there? >> Yeah.

[21:36] » So, this is behind that one. >> So, I we can hear you. [laughter]

[21:41] Hello. Um thank you for zooming in. So just to explain to everybody um so

[21:49] when we uh get a request from the project proponent um to continue the

[21:54] meeting um the chair um asks for a motion in a second and a vote to

[22:00] continue it. We don't open up um the the public hearing tonight for public

[22:05] comment. Um, if there are people that do have public comment that's new or

[22:10] something special, I recommend you uh send it immediately into the planning

[22:15] board so that we have it in our packets for our next meeting. Um, and that email

[22:19] is planning boardba.gov.

[22:24] Okay. Um, so thank you for attending. I sometimes we don't know about this till

[22:29] the last minute. Um, this was in our packet. Um, but if there's something

[22:33] like this, you can always check with the planning department um 508-5391414

[22:40] um to double check that the public hearing will be held and that there's no

[22:44] continuence. I'm going to have you talk to our town planner if you have a

[22:47] question because I was wondering you don't you still don't entertain before

[22:51] you you don't entertain it for people that came here to talk.

[22:55] » No, >> because the project proponent isn't

[22:57] here. >> But what if I wanted to talk to the

[22:59] board? So, so what I'm I'm asking if you if you have comment, I would email it

[23:06] into the planning board at mashbma.gov. Um, [clears throat]

[23:11] » or or also come to the continued hearing date.

[23:14] » Oh, yeah. You can come to the continue hearing which they've asked uh to

[23:17] continue this till February for uh sorry, February 18th,

[23:22] and I recommend a 6:40 start time. Yes. >> So, I watched it on Zoom and I would

[23:28] have to do that on the 18th. >> [cough]

[23:31] » I couldn't [clears throat] figure out how to because you open it up for

[23:34] comments from the people watching on Zoom. I couldn't figure out how to do

[23:38] that. Is it on >> Do you know how to raise your hand when

[23:41] you're on Zoom? >> Yes. So I if I raised my hand then you

[23:46] would have allowed then you guys do something to allow

[23:50] » Yeah. You're not you're not automatically muted.

[23:53] » Okay. >> Right. Like we don't mute everybody. I

[23:57] think that um we could if people started getting rowdy, but if you ever find

[24:02] yourself in a situation where you don't know how to raise your hand, just call

[24:08] out to me. >> Okay.

[24:09] » Like, madame chair. Madam chair, I want to be recognized

[24:13] » and you can hear that. >> Oh, yeah.

[24:15] » Okay. Because I couldn't. All right. I didn't realize that. Yeah. I'm going to

[24:19] watch on the 18. >> Yeah. Okay.

[24:24] » Okay. Yeah, I will just quickly add we did we

[24:29] did try to get the word out as much as possible because we didn't want to

[24:32] inconvenience people. Um, so luckily it looks like the majority of the public

[24:38] did get the word. Some folks had contacted us to confirm directly. We

[24:42] wanted folks to know it was continued. a bit of backstory that's not in your

[24:47] packet is I was uh you know through my assistant engaging in a little bit of

[24:51] dialogue with the applicant and uh learned that the the lead of the

[24:55] applicant was actually going to be out of town this week. So we then called up

[24:59] his council's office uh and asked him whether or not they plan to continue and

[25:04] then got this email the next day. So

[25:10] » okay. So, I'd accept a motion to continue this public hearing to February

[25:15] 18th at 6:40 p.m. >> So, be.

[25:18] » Is there a second? >> Second.

[25:20] » Any discussion? >> By roll call vote, Michael?

[25:23] » Yes. >> Dennis?

[25:24] » Yes. >> Dale?

[25:25] » Yes. >> Karen?

[25:27] » Yes. >> Mary's a yes. Okay.

[25:30] Thank you.

[25:37] I feel like I can breathe. [laughter]

[25:47] All right.

[25:52] » All right. So, um, excuse [clears throat] me. The next item

[25:57] is board engineer report. Do we have our engineer zooming in or do we have any

[26:04] report? >> Uh, the engineer is not zooming in

[26:05] because there is nothing to report this evening. So, I thought I would be kind

[26:09] and allow her to have the evening off. >> Cool. And then, um, we did the invoices.

[26:15] Okay. Now, we can get right into the LCP review and update.

[26:37] Okay. So, oh, >> so we have two chapters to look at

[26:41] tonight. First one is land use and growth management

[26:46] and the second one is municipal buildings facilities and services. So,

[26:52] who wants to lead us through the land use and growth management?

[26:56] » Be happy to. >> Okay, Brian.

[26:57] » That was that was my chapter. It was assigned to me.

[26:59] » It [laughter] was. Okay, good. Go for it. So, uh, I did make some fairly

[27:04] substantive changes to this chapter. I think in large part because there were a

[27:10] number of themes, um, that I thought the public might want reflected. Uh, not the

[27:16] least of which is the important of balancing any development with our need

[27:20] to protect the environment as well as protect uh, nitrogen and phosphorus

[27:24] input. um as well as continued the legacy

[27:29] um or tradition of having a significant amount of land restricted for

[27:33] conservation and open space purposes. And then finally to uh preserve,

[27:39] maintain and promote the kind of Cape Cod feel and aesthetics of of

[27:45] construction in town. Um so that those are the ongoing themes. Um there's a lot

[27:51] of red lines to go through regarding that. There seemed to be in the prior

[27:55] version a little bit more of a theme to uh urbanize Mashbby and just based on

[28:01] general comments from town officials as well as members of the public that theme

[28:06] [clears throat] doesn't really appear to track with um

[28:11] the overarching perspective of the public. So those were the significant

[28:15] » that that's the reason for the significant changes to this chapter.

[28:20] Uh so I'm not if the board wants we can go through each one line by line or we

[28:26] can do page by page or if anybody has any particular questions.

[28:32] » Why don't you call out the goals? >> Okay,

[28:34] » just go right down. >> So

[28:36] » and ask if anybody has any comments for like LU1.

[28:40] » Yeah. So for goals LU1 through LU7, I can ask if anybody has any

[28:46] comments. I'll let you know that there were just adjustments made to LU2, LU3,

[28:50] and then LU7 was added. Um, >> I was just wondering on LU3.

[28:57] » Yep. >> If we can somehow weave um wastewater

[29:02] infrastructure in there. >> Okay. And actually, thank you. You're

[29:04] just you're now you're now pointing to another uh small change I realized in

[29:09] that section is that I I I added both an LU3 and an LU7. So when you're

[29:14] referencing LU3, you mean the new LU3 or the prior LU3?

[29:18] » The redlinined LU3. >> The all. Yeah. So balance development

[29:21] with protecting open space by encouraging innovative ways for

[29:24] development to promote open space, recreation, conservation, and

[29:28] agriculture. And what did you want to add or what did

[29:32] you think? >> I don't know like wastewater management

[29:34] or water water. You know, we have big storm water and wastewater initiatives.

[29:40] » Yeah. Should we somehow throw those in in some of our goals?

[29:44] » Yeah, absolutely. How about [clears throat and cough] because I I

[29:46] feel like protecting the environment covers both of those two categories. So

[29:51] potentially like to not be too verbio, we can just say for development to

[29:56] protect the environment as well as promote open space, recreation,

[30:00] conservation and agriculture. Would that work or

[30:04] » No. >> Okay. I think with protecting

[30:07] I I think we we you should just by encouraging innovative ways for de for

[30:12] development to promote open space, recreation, conservation, agriculture

[30:17] and clean water. >> Okay, that works too.

[30:20] » That's it. >> Yep.

[30:23] » Because that will capture our storm water and our waste water.

[30:26] » That works. >> And it's clear.

[30:29] » And it's clear clean water. So under prior LU3 and current LU4, I

[30:36] just added and open space after wastewater treatment.

[30:40] » Yep. >> Uh then the only other change to goals

[30:43] was LU7, which is partner with local land owners to encourage development

[30:47] that allow aligns with town values like protecting our environment, promoting

[30:52] open space, and preserving Cape Cod aesthetics.

[30:56] » It's put in there, clean water. >> Okay. promoting open space, cleaning up

[31:00] our water, whatever the grammatical term is.

[31:05] » I'll just say providing clean water and preserving. Y

[31:13] » Karen, I know you're on Zoom. Do you have any comments for goal LU1 through

[31:17] goal LU7? >> No, I think they're all very good.

[31:28] So for uh thank you for that feedback Aaron. For policies

[31:33] um again other than the insertion of L LU1 and

[31:40] LU12 uh very light or sparing changes

[31:45] um with the exception of LU2. So LU1 I inserted promote the attributes that

[31:51] make MASHBY unique, including among others, its small town feel, its

[31:56] substantial open space, its Cape Cod aesthetics, its noteworthy ecology, and

[32:01] its coastal charm. So I I will say this though, there were

[32:07] instances other instances where I didn't add it in there, but the goal of

[32:10] protecting the small town feel was in there, which was at times at odds with

[32:16] the goal of, you know, and this is in the substance of the paragraphs of the

[32:20] actual chapter. Um, it was at times seemingly at odds with the goal of

[32:27] effectively urbanizing MASHB. So I just wanted to make sure that because it was

[32:31] in the substance of the chapters, we actually brought it forward to the goals

[32:35] and uh and policies. So >> thank you.

[32:40] » Yeah. I on that matter mean how does that

[32:45] impact all the development that's happening right around Mashby Commons

[32:49] right now? We're trying to protect a small town feel. We've got one going on

[32:53] Market Street. One one has already been approved for cross jobs fishing.

[32:59] » Yeah, >> there looks like another one 40B coming

[33:02] on on Route 28. Um getting a little crowded, isn't it?

[33:07] » 100%. And I think um I think a couple of things are worth

[33:14] noting to that effect. The first is a lot of those projects have already been

[33:17] approved. So unfortunately the milk's already spilled there. Uh it's something

[33:23] to keep in mind for the approval of certain projects. Certainly when we're

[33:27] dealing with 40Bs though, then we also have to deal with the challenge that the

[33:31] developer until we get into our safe harbor of 10% is going to have a whole

[33:36] lot of leverage in doing what they see fit. Um that being said though, I think

[33:41] there are ways that our department can be proactive about it. Um you know, not

[33:47] the least of which is traffic on 28, Mike. And I that's an important issue to

[33:50] you and uh you know I know you've suggested a townwide traffic study

[33:55] there. I'm not sure if that's something you want to chat about now more.

[33:58] » I if I don't know if it's the appropriate time but I did mentioned it

[34:01] to Rodney Collins. He said he had funds for a study and I think an independent

[34:06] study you know as I understand it. Uh, I mean, there's only going to be one entry

[34:11] from into the 40B project on 28, and that's going to be on jobs fishing, and

[34:18] it's going to be a short distance from from the light to the entrance to that

[34:23] development. And that's I mean, we're moving a lot of moving pieces around

[34:28] now. And I'd really like to see if we could

[34:31] » fully fully agreed. The unfortunate reality of that is that it does fall

[34:34] under a 40B. So unless the developer I it's it's the developer needs to to a

[34:41] certain extent out of the kindness of their heart um make adjustments to the

[34:46] plans that could be beneficial to the town as a whole. There's uh less than in

[34:52] the usual circumstances we can do to um force their hand so to speak. Uh to

[35:00] begin with that's a commercially zoned area, right? So 40B is what's allowing

[35:04] them to put residences in there in the first place.

[35:09] So that's kind of the nature of that beast that we're dealing with.

[35:12] » Well, it's becoming a bit of a beast for me. I

[35:14] » mean I mean Mashp Commons is the reason why a lot of people come here and now

[35:20] just plunking down development after development around it because it's it's

[35:26] possible is going to it's going to cause significant issues I think. But

[35:32] » and the other thing like the other things we can control

[35:35] not only what we approve when projects come before us but our zoning right

[35:41] we've been asked to to uh change our zoning and the town has said no right um

[35:51] what we do with our town funding >> the town has said no by select board has

[35:55] said no or is it >> no the outcry the public outcry to the

[35:59] point that the per the the group proposing the zoning withdrew,

[36:05] you know. So, that's something that's under our control, you know, like how do

[36:09] how how do we preserve our our small town feel? Well, you don't you don't

[36:15] approve zoning that would overdevelop the town,

[36:18] » right? You approve zoning that preserves our small town feel. Also, you know,

[36:25] what do you do with your town funds, your community preservation money,

[36:29] right? you don't sponsor um a development that's, you know, going

[36:34] to pollute our waters, going to do, you know, add to our traffic congestion,

[36:39] that kind of stuff. [clears throat] >> And the town can also use those funds to

[36:43] acquire pivotal pieces of land to preserve them.

[36:48] » Right. >> Right. So that there are some things we

[36:50] can do. We can't control everything and the planning board can't control

[36:53] everything, but to have this as a goal is important.

[36:57] » Control it all though. Mashby Commons um you know they own what 180 acres of land

[37:03] they've developed 50 >> right? Yeah, they have permits that

[37:08] » and they have they have a a a comprehensive permit from

[37:13] [clears throat] 2007 which actually when you look at comprehensive permits it's

[37:18] really not that bad, right? I think it comes to about 10 units per acre or

[37:23] something like that. I forget. I did that calculation once.

[37:26] » It is it is spread out. The majority of the density is near the commercial area

[37:30] of the commons because then you know the way it's modeled out is something like

[37:35] the the remaining 280 plus or minus a uh units are spread out on a large acre

[37:41] parcel back behind Job's Fishing Road and have more of a townhouse or single

[37:47] family home feel to it. >> So they could have put a lot more.

[37:51] » Do you know what I mean? Like the architecture is nice, the planning is

[37:55] nice. It's a walkable community. It's near our senior center. It's near our

[37:59] library. It's near, you know, it it I if if it was not a chapter 40B and it was a

[38:07] DRRi, a development of regional impact, probably the roads would have been

[38:11] improved a little bit more, you know, but hey, that's life in the big city.

[38:16] There was a Mass Works um grant for that road. Job's

[38:21] » Fish. They got money from the state to build

[38:26] that road. >> Now it's a town road, right?

[38:29] » Now it's a town road, but >> Oh, I thought Job's Fishing was still

[38:33] private. >> It got it. It is private, but it got a

[38:37] Mass Works. >> Okay.

[38:38] » Grant for the infrastructure, >> but it wasn't. So, but it hasn't been

[38:41] adopted at town meeting as a town road, right?

[38:44] » Yeah. >> I don't think so.

[38:46] » That's the way it works. >> That's why remember the curbing?

[38:49] » Yeah. >> Remember like you were like, "What the

[38:51] heck? What's with all this curbing? That's because that was from that was

[38:54] funded by Mass Works, I think. >> And and and uh

[38:57] » they got the right to put house in there or something. They got some

[39:02] » that role. They got some >> Well, it's probably Mass Works. It was

[39:04] almost a million dollars and it was like I don't know like 10 years ago. So, that

[39:08] was worth a lot of money. >> Yeah. The other thing to Mary's point

[39:11] about the 40B is I believe that parcel that's back behind

[39:15] Job's Fishing where they're going to put kind of the more um

[39:20] » town the less dense feeling

[39:24] » uh also a butts on uh 151 also because of the combined parcels of butts on 151

[39:29] as well there. So, there's a potential for a pass through. But I think

[39:33] combining Mike and Mary's points, one of the things that we can do if we do do a

[39:38] traffic study is then consider passing bylaws specifically related to traffic

[39:44] management, like zoning bylaws that are specifically related to it, you know.

[39:49] » Well, I I'm >> We'd like to hear more. Why don't you

[39:51] put that as a You better put that as an action step.

[39:55] » Yeah. >> Is it Would it

[39:57] » That's actually not a bad idea. Okay, we're going to add that to an

[40:01] should it go in this? I'll recognize you in one second, Karen. Would that be an

[40:06] action step for this land? >> I think so. I mean, if we do them as

[40:09] zoning bylaws, absolutely. >> All right. So, we would we want to

[40:14] investigate,

[40:18] zoning tools to manage

[40:24] traffic congestion. >> Yeah. Where do you want to put that?

[40:29] » I think that's that's an action step under this in this sure chapter.

[40:34] » Which number? I mean >> just add it to the end.

[40:36] » Okay. >> And and include a independent traffic

[40:40] study. >> Definitely. Yeah.

[40:42] » I think we have a traffic study in the traffic and um

[40:46] » we can say based on an independent. >> Yep.

[40:48] » Yeah. >> Based on

[40:51] » Right. >> So what was that wording there? Cuz I

[40:53] really like that wording. Um, investigate zoning tools to manage

[40:56] traffic congestion based on townwide traffic

[41:03] study. >> And you know what else actually

[41:08] » based on future >> future in that

[41:12] town anticipated? >> Yeah.

[41:15] » Townwide traffic study. >> Hey Karen, respectfully, is there a

[41:20] volume button on your mic? cuz we've kind of tried to troubleshoot everything

[41:24] on our end and you're still coming out very very loud over here. Do you have do

[41:28] you have a volume button on your mic? >> I can turn it down. You're telling me

[41:33] I'm turning it down as we I speak. How is that

[41:38] » loud? Yeah, I guess it I guess there's something else.

[41:40] » No, no, I do when I turn that down, you disappear.

[41:45] » Oh, really? >> No, that's not that's that's

[41:48] » that's your volume. What you want to look for is your mic volume.

[41:52] » Yep. >> What if I just talk like this?

[41:57] » That's better. >> Whisper.

[41:59] » Okay, >> I'll whisper. I'll pretend I'm in

[42:00] church. >> Pretend you're me. [laughter]

[42:04] » Okay. >> Um

[42:06] » Okay. So, where were we? Oh, sorry. >> So, we added an action and we're we're

[42:11] on policies now. >> Uh yeah, sorry. I just wanted to double

[42:14] back over that wording. This is in actions.

[42:16] » Karen, I'm sorry. Karen, did you want to say something?

[42:21] » Yeah, I wanted to say I'm whispering. I don't think Mike is aware that um

[42:27] Mashby Commons can build on 28 across the street.

[42:32] » Yeah, >> but maybe Brian can

[42:33] » I am aware. >> It's already

[42:36] » the shed place deal. Well, it it's a done deal to the extent that zoning they

[42:44] can they can construct there in accordance with current zoning. It's not

[42:49] a done deal in the sense that they may want to partner with the town to do a

[42:54] more proactive layout with the remaining land, you know, that is mutually

[42:59] beneficial. >> Yeah. They don't have a special permit

[43:01] for that area yet. >> No, there there's there's nothing

[43:03] permitted there. So they can only construct to my knowledge there's

[43:07] nothing permanent >> there

[43:09] about all that you know years ago they had big designs like right across the

[43:15] street right beside the gas station. Yep. A piece there behind the picnic box

[43:20] they own that then where the stop and shop is they own all the way up to the

[43:25] the fire station >> and they were going to put housing and

[43:28] stuff there. They had this big plan and it was a lot

[43:32] » and it was about it it it's it's come before us twice.

[43:36] » Welcome >> months worth of public comment and both

[43:40] times they've withdrawn their proposal >> and then they were working with the Cape

[43:46] Commission >> without telling us.

[43:51] » Point is they had the right to build something.

[43:53] » The first round was pretty bad, [laughter]

[43:56] » right? I mean, one one reason to potentially look into partnering with

[44:02] them would be that if they could just sell off the land to the highest bidder.

[44:08] » That's what they're going to be doing. >> And so that that could result in

[44:13] something to the effect of a hyis. >> Yeah. you know,

[44:16] » which >> one time they came [snorts] in.

[44:18] » I say I say that with the knowledge of just feedback that I've received from

[44:22] people in Hyannis, not personal experience, but

[44:25] » years ago they mentioned that and I said to him, are you still going to control

[44:29] the development once you sell it to like say me and I was going to put up

[44:34] building up my design and he said, "Oh no, you have to go buy our book and

[44:38] stuff." >> But that was like 15 20 years ago. You

[44:42] know what I'm saying? Agreed. Yeah, I get it.

[44:44] » So, you can sell if you own land, you can sell it to somebody with some type

[44:49] of restriction on it. >> Yeah, you can. But,

[44:51] » i.e., you know, you're going to you're going to start to

[44:56] to build out portions of of land that are part of a master plan where, you

[45:02] know, it might behoove them to continue the architectural and site design

[45:08] standards they've already placed there because it keeps the value of their

[45:11] current property. 100%. And and I will say that the the main area of the

[45:17] Commons, you know, has a the walkability component gives it

[45:23] a very kind of charming feel compared to other

[45:26] » Yeah. >> more congested,

[45:29] less, organized,

[45:33] you know, center areas, for lack of a better phrase.

[45:37] » Yeah. >> So,

[45:38] » and and we have always had an open door for them to come in. So um you got to

[45:42] remember master is dealing with younger people now. The daughter took over.

[45:47] » Yeah. >> Chase in the background, but

[45:50] » they have different ideas. >> Yeah.

[45:52] » Well, isn't it possible to get them in for conversation about this long range

[45:57] planning? >> Yeah, we could. I mean,

[46:00] » we could anything's possible, Mike. >> I mean, when you this so quickly.

[46:05] » Well, so and I I and Rob and Dennis was went through this. I mean, we we left

[46:12] it. We had 27 questions for them. We've never heard back, you know what I

[46:18] mean? So, the door was open for them anytime to come back and talk to us

[46:22] about their master plan, >> you know, their projections, how we can

[46:26] help them, >> especially with a new body, somebody in

[46:29] position, open the door again. >> So, guys, I don't I don't mean to be

[46:33] rude, but I do want to focus on this chapter.

[46:36] » I think Okay. >> Yeah.

[46:39] [cough] I so I [clears throat] just wanted to get that wording that you

[46:41] suggested. Mary, >> do we have any action items about like

[46:44] working cooperatively with developers to um meet our goals and policies?

[46:49] » So, let's let's look, but can I first just I didn't hear all of the wording

[46:53] that you suggested the last time, so I just want to make sure I have it.

[46:57] Investigate zoning tools to manage traffic congestion in current and

[47:01] anticipated. That's all I got. >> No. Uh to manage traffic congest

[47:06] congestion. Yeah. >> Um, based upon

[47:10] » Yep. >> anticipated

[47:14] » development >> townwide traffic study.

[47:17] » Based upon and anticipated and

[47:21] » Yep. >> and comprehensive. How's that, Brian?

[47:24] Okay. Let me read that back to everybody. Lots

[47:28] of adjectives there.

[47:33] Investigate zoning tools to manage traffic congestion based upon

[47:37] comprehensive and anticipated townwide traffic study.

[47:43] » Awesome. >> Okay.

[47:44] » All right. >> And then we want to add an action item.

[47:47] We're cooperatively. >> So that's the L4.

[47:50] » I think there is stuff in there though. So let's just make sure because I mean

[47:54] there's a lot of action items here and I do

[47:56] » recall there being something to that effect in here. But if it's

[47:59] insufficient, then we should uh certainly add it.

[48:04] » Okay. So, we've gone through the goals, right?

[48:07] » Yep. We're on the action. >> All right. We're on policies now.

[48:10] » Yep. And um

[48:16] so I just rewarded goal one. I'm not sure if the board

[48:20] » goal one or policy one, >> excuse me, policy one. I'm not sure if

[48:23] the board wants me to walk them through all the details of that, but again, it

[48:27] was with this theme of promoting open space, recreation, conservation, and

[48:32] agriculture was kind of the bigger ad to it. Um

[48:38] and then other than that, the only other major change to the policy section was

[48:43] LU12, which is obtained safe harbor by affordable housing that promotes livable

[48:48] communities incorporating open space, recreation, conservation or agriculture

[48:54] as well as Cape Cod aesthetics. >> I I want to jump to that one.

[48:59] » Okay. Is this cross-pollinated um in for the in the housing section?

[49:04] » I believe so. I mean, our housing section. Oh. Oh. Oh. You in the LCP?

[49:09] » In the LCP. >> I just I just want to make sure LU12 Y

[49:14] » is repeated in the housing section. >> We can do that. Yeah.

[49:30] Okay. Um, >> so

[49:33] » can we go to to LU policy LU6? >> Sure. And that is new

[49:40] » ensure that any new growth. Yeah. Okay. >> Ensure that any

[49:46] » Karen, did you want to go? Go ahead. >> Correction on policy. Lu says 54. What

[49:54] does that mean? That four >> identify opportunities. Okay. Five.

[50:00] Identify opportunities for mixed use development existing blah blah blah that

[50:04] are designed. >> Just a verb there.

[50:11] » Instead of is designed ours is >> Sorry. What number was that? I I just

[50:15] » number five. >> Number five.

[50:17] » Yeah. But so old five or new five? >> New five.

[50:20] » Let's do all the new numbers. >> Okay.

[50:24] So areas that are designed to

[50:35] I have one for number six. I think we should say to meet our um

[50:42] TDMLS or clean water goals.

[50:46] » Where do you want that located? um provide high quality drinking water and

[50:52] to meet our clean water goals such as TDMLS.

[50:56] I lost my mic.

[51:00] » Can you still hear me? >> I can hear you fine.

[51:02] » All right. to ensure that any new growth does not exceed the town's capacity to

[51:07] provide high quality drinking water and instead of andor treat waste water

[51:14] » say to meet our clean water goals and TDMLS

[51:20] » MDLs >> TMDLs

[51:27] » all right so sorry after wastewater what do you want

[51:30] » so strike treat

[51:33] wastewater and replace it with meet our clean water

[51:38] goals including to meeting our TMDLs.

[51:53] » Okay. And should we put something about storm

[51:58] water in there too or

[52:02] I think it's okay because we have clean meet our clean water goals. Okay.

[52:10] » I'm sorry. Policy 33 33.

[52:15] There's another little [snorts]

[52:19] » Can you tell us which one you're on? Just read it.

[52:23] » Okay. It's um ensure town services and facilities are

[52:29] adequately addressing. >> So, it's policy number three.

[52:34] » Yep, I got it. >> Okay.

[52:37] » I'd also like you to read and explain, and I know that you didn't probably

[52:40] write this one, but LU9.

[52:46] » Um, yeah, I I did not write that one. It says ensure coordination of planning and

[52:51] management efforts. >> The one before,

[52:53] » right? >> Oh, okay. that says provide for limited

[52:56] neighborhood serving businesses where appropriate.

[53:01] I have no idea what that is. I just it was a carry forward from a prior draft

[53:06] so I didn't I didn't want to touch it because I didn't understand it.

[53:08] » So I think this is what it is >> I wanted to make sure I think it was me.

[53:15] I wanted to make sure that in every part of our town we were able to have like a

[53:21] little convenience store or a little coffee shop or a newspaper stand. You

[53:24] know what I mean? Like I didn't want any part of our town to not have access to a

[53:29] place they could get a cup of coffee, a gallon of milk, the newspaper.

[53:35] » Sounds kind of urban. >> Yeah. You think that's too much?

[53:39] » All right, let's strike it. >> Strike that.

[53:43] Well, it says where appropriate. I mean, I don't think it I don't think

[53:49] that necessarily says every part of town. Do do we have do we have areas in

[53:54] town that like don't have things like that and people find that they have to

[53:59] » be their burden >> she see from from

[54:03] the start of the fall when everybody leaves and everybody shuts down their

[54:07] businesses and at puffiness you know Dennis you're how how far are

[54:12] you from the for Roge brothers 5 miles six miles

[54:15] » yeah 10 miles up five miles up five miles back you know off the ros

[54:20] » yeah but That's in part market forces, right? Because much of that area of town

[54:26] is not annual. >> I'm not really worried about it. The

[54:29] three miles I have to go to Roach Brothers is okay, but

[54:32] » yeah. And and when it's summertime and when it's summertime, you can walk to

[54:36] some commercial places, right? It's good healthy walk, but it's

[54:41] » actually, you know, where Top Spin Way is, there was talk of a coffee shop

[54:45] convenience store [clears throat] >> at that intersection with Great Oak.

[54:52] » As long as they serve good coffee, I'm for it.

[54:56] » Do you think we need that or >> No. [clears throat] Okay, let's strike

[54:59] it.

[55:02] » Yeah, I think it's uh vague and confusing. Yes, it's vague and confusing

[55:07] and not necessary. >> All right.

[55:13] » Any Go ahead, Brian. Sorry. >> Oh, no. That's all right. I was just

[55:16] going to move on to actions unless uh

[55:22] » so um [sighs and gasps]

[55:25] » I'll I'll just touch upon the the heftier changes. Um so LU2

[55:32] um again I added preserve Cape Cod aesthetics and promote open space

[55:36] recreation conservation and agriculture. Um for LU5

[55:43] um I said prioritize affordable housing

[55:48] that is connected to town sewer or is otherwise net zero for nitrogen and

[55:54] phosphorus input. utilizes best practices for a green community like

[55:58] solar power and thermal heating. Incorporates Cape Cod aesthetics into

[56:03] its design scheme and includes open space as recreation, conservation or

[56:08] agriculture. I just felt that that was a sufficient expansion of what the

[56:14] originally worded LU5 was trying to accomplish, which simply said prioritize

[56:21] waiverss from the flow neutral bylaw to support friendly 4DB projects that help

[56:25] the town meet the affordable housing. Actually, I guess it really turns that

[56:29] on its head because it's saying we're not prioritizing waiverss to flow

[56:32] neutral bylaw. We're trying to prioritize affordable housing that is

[56:36] flow neutral, i.e. gone sewer. So, >> yeah, I like that.

[56:42] » Can you cross-pollinate that to the housing?

[56:44] » Sure. >> Make sure it's in the housing ch.

[56:46] » Okay. >> Do we have geothermal?

[56:50] » I wouldn't expect it on the Cape. >> I know.

[56:54] » Oh, it's possible. Yeah, it's actually growing. It's actually growing. Yeah.

[56:57] Okay. >> That's the newest. Thank you.

[56:59] » Yeah. No, I want it. >> Solar power.

[57:02] » They've been having a lot of bad problems with

[57:03] » Well, and it heats your house. >> Yeah. You don't have to dig that far

[57:06] below the frost either. There's a guy like out in, I don't know, Omaha or

[57:13] Nebraska and some place where it gets cold in the winter. He's got a

[57:17] greenhouse that stays at a consistent 70° and he grows his own orange trees in

[57:23] it. Like while there's snow outside, he wants fresh squeezed orange juice. He

[57:28] just walks out to his greenhouse, plucks an orange, comes back inside.

[57:32] » Please don't show my husband that. [laughter]

[57:35] I definitely got a little jealous myself.

[57:37] » Be like, "Yeah, let's go."

[57:42] » Uh, so LU six. Oh, no. That's a minor change. Uh,

[57:49] LU9 I rewarded to to say develop a formbbased code. I think we should even

[57:55] say explore developing a formbbased code, but yeah. Okay, good.

[57:59] » All right.

[58:05] Explore developing a formbbased code uh to encourage aesthetically pleasing

[58:12] structural structures utilizing Cape Cod design

[58:15] schemes. uh consistency with the traditional

[58:19] character of the town and the region and seamless integration and utilization of

[58:26] appropriate structure size

[58:31] uh type and design considered overlay first. So that previously read as

[58:38] develop a formbbased code uh that would encourage aesthetically

[58:44] pleasing consistent

[58:48] yeah I guess it was grammatically incorrect but consistent with the

[58:51] traditional character of the town and type

[58:57] considered overlay first. So part of it was grammatical but part of it I think

[59:02] really just kind of unpacked more what we're talking about in terms of

[59:07] consistency.

[59:11] All right, I got some comments on these >> and then everything else in the activity

[59:16] section was, you know, fairly cosmetic or, you know, like for example, it

[59:22] talked about the HPP, but it dated the the last draft before adoption, whereas

[59:28] the draft that was adopted was 2025, so I fixed the year. You know, little

[59:32] little changes like that in the activity sections.

[59:36] So LU3 which talks about uh reassess the role of transfer of development rights

[59:43] um and growth management priorities and

[59:47] consider overhaul of the open space incentive development bylaw. I'd like to

[59:53] add to make it more accessible

[59:58] because it's it was designed for one property owner only.

[1:00:03] » Yeah. >> Right. And the way that was done was it

[1:00:07] the minimum acreage was 20 acres. So nobody else in

[1:00:13] town owns 20 acres of continuous land. So there's a couple of ways to do that.

[1:00:21] One, you would allow this on smaller continuous land or allow people to

[1:00:28] cobble together >> parcels. So, it's it's it needs some

[1:00:32] skilled planning to make sure this doesn't go down wide. Um, but that was

[1:00:37] one of the comments that was received at some of the public meetings

[1:00:42] um on expansion of Mashby Commons with

[1:00:47] formbbased code was that other people were saying, well, I I own seven acres.

[1:00:53] How come I can't use it? >> Yeah, that's interesting. They can of

[1:00:58] course avail themselves of the cluster development provisions.

[1:01:02] » Yeah. But they wanted to do commercial. They wanted to do top of the shop,

[1:01:06] commercial, walkable. Okay. >> And they had

[1:01:11] partnerships with other land owners

[1:01:15] » where they could have provided the open space offsite

[1:01:20] and concentrated the development on this like 7 acre parcel. So um there was some

[1:01:27] discussion that it should be opened up to other property owners.

[1:01:30] » Okay. >> We spent a year or more

[1:01:35] did this but master car

[1:01:41] » and we said the words what did we say? >> No they we changed

[1:01:44] » we said trout pond. >> We changed their zoning father. They got

[1:01:48] to zoning chain and then they >> decided not to go that way after they

[1:01:52] got the zoning change. Anyways, we're not going to fall for that again. All

[1:01:56] right. So, next one is on four. Um, I think we should add to the and and

[1:02:04] to meet MASHB's clean water goals.

[1:02:15] » I don't Do we need that one?

[1:02:26] kind of reads like a different um >> Yeah, it's I think it's already in

[1:02:32] there, right? >> Yeah, it reads like Yeah, I think we can

[1:02:34] strike it. >> You think?

[1:02:38] » I think we can. >> All right. If Dale and Mary say you can,

[1:02:43] I'm going to take their word for it. We're just going to exit out. So, we're

[1:02:46] exing out number four. Do we know what's going on with that flow neutral bylaw?

[1:02:50] Are there any regs coming out? >> Well, we have the flow neutral bylaw.

[1:02:54] » All right. Do we need regs on that? >> Um, I don't think so. I think the bylaw

[1:03:00] itself is the regulation. >> I mean, there may be

[1:03:04] RNR associated with it, but that would probably be under the sewer commission.

[1:03:08] So, >> got it.

[1:03:11] Um, number eight, overhaul the MASHB sign code with, for example, formbbased

[1:03:18] approach.

[1:03:22] So, I think I've been on one or no, I think I've been on one committee

[1:03:28] » signed by law committee. It was nine people. It was absolute torture and we

[1:03:31] didn't change one thing. >> Yeah.

[1:03:33] » Um, but um if if you ever read the sign code, you're like, you know, It's It's

[1:03:40] prime for being overhauled. >> As long as we don't allow too many

[1:03:47] flashing neon signs in town, I shouldn't have a problem.

[1:03:50] » Well, neon signs aren't allowed. Um, I know

[1:03:52] » there's some signs that are popping up that

[1:03:54] » But if you over if you overhaul it, they people may advocate for flashing

[1:03:59] flashing neons. >> They did.

[1:04:02] » I think I think Tom, he was like, I love neon. I'm like, no.

[1:04:07] We the one that we that was very interesting to look at was the town of

[1:04:11] Dennis. They actually in their code about signs actually had pictures of

[1:04:18] what was allowed and what wasn't because the descriptions can be interpreted in

[1:04:22] lots of different ways. >> Yeah. Like

[1:04:24] » they finally put actual photographs in there.

[1:04:28] » Yeah. Depending on the way it's worded on the outside.

[1:04:33] » Yeah. But anyways, and the last one that I

[1:04:38] have comment on is LU13.

[1:04:45] Set a target population that balances the projected needs of

[1:04:50] housing supply and the environmental carrying capacity of the town following

[1:04:54] a buildout analysis. zoning changes proposed

[1:05:01] in this LCP and the HPP. So in the 1997

[1:05:08] plan, the the population was year- round population was set the target was

[1:05:14] 15,000. >> So that's that's where that is in here.

[1:05:20] » It says set it. It doesn't set it in the LCP. It puts it as an action step.

[1:05:29] So, what do we want to do? >> I think that in the text we should

[1:05:32] somehow acknowledge that it was set at 15,000

[1:05:37] yearround residents um in the 1998 plan.

[1:05:43] » Okay. How do you want to do that?

[1:05:47] » Well, we can reference it here or we can put it in the text.

[1:05:51] » Can you >> Oh, the text of the the text of the

[1:05:53] chapter. >> Yeah.

[1:05:55] » Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, let's move on to the chapter.

[1:05:56] » Or you could just balloon it. You put a blue box outside of that one.

[1:06:00] » Can we put a balloon? >> I don't think in the goal section. It

[1:06:03] would be the only one. It would be weird in the in the chapter. Yes. But not in

[1:06:08] the goal section. It would just disrupt the format. It would disrupt the

[1:06:11] formatting of the whole >> We're on 51 now. If you're doing the

[1:06:14] chapter, right? >> Yes, sir. So, I just took out that whole

[1:06:18] first introductory paragraph. I thought I was super fluous and candidly a tad

[1:06:23] too uh just theoretical and I jumped right into what in my professional

[1:06:29] opinion a land use chapter is about. Um and it just says now for an

[1:06:36] introduction. The land use chapter is a guide for

[1:06:40] thoughtful municipal decision-making on how to best manage land in MASHBY. It

[1:06:44] includes everything from conserving open space to managing real estate

[1:06:48] development. This chapter discusses the existing conditions in town including

[1:06:53] the current uses of land and the regulatory framework.

[1:06:57] It also identifies challenges and opportunities associated with land use.

[1:07:02] Just thought we should keep it simple and uh that tightens things up and makes

[1:07:07] it a little cleaner and a little crisper.

[1:07:10] Appreciate the thumbs up, Mike. Oh, and then we have um Okay. Do we have um

[1:07:20] do we have a chart of um

[1:07:28] of population growth?

[1:07:33] See, we have this nice chart class of land use.

[1:07:37] You know, it goes on page 51.

[1:07:43] There we are. >> Right. I'm wondering if we can squeeze

[1:07:45] in there that there's a famous, you know, the

[1:07:50] census numbers and then there's a ch there's a graph

[1:07:55] that shows how mashp population just and that's where we can we can put that

[1:08:02] that 1998 or 1997 sorry LC8 >> 98 thank you LCP set the um target

[1:08:11] population for the town at 15,000 year around.

[1:08:15] » Yeah, we can put it as an asterk at the bottom of the chart. How does that

[1:08:18] sound? >> I think a blue box.

[1:08:19] » Hold up. >> Yeah.

[1:08:21] » So that' be right under 99. >> I right after the end of table 5.1. It's

[1:08:29] land use change over time. And I think it's interesting to put the population

[1:08:33] change over time. And I think that's from our HPP. I think it's in the HPP.

[1:08:39] And there might even be a little narrative associated with that that we

[1:08:43] can just grab from the HPP, throw it in there, and then add, you know, Rob

[1:08:48] wanted a blue box about how we set the target population in 1998

[1:08:54] is 15,000 and just I think that's good history.

[1:08:58] » I think it works. All right, I've added that to my notes.

[1:09:03] Um oops, pardon me. So on 52 minor, very minor changes. 53

[1:09:11] no changes other than again the date at the top which is consistent throughout

[1:09:14] the document. Same with 54. Same with 55. Same with 56. 57 is where I'm

[1:09:23] inserting the recently suggested changes by Madame Chair and uh member Rob

[1:09:29] Hansen. Uh other than that, no changes to 57. very minor adjustment to 58. At

[1:09:36] the end of the first paragraph, I just added the phrase, typically they provide

[1:09:40] either more flexibility or greater restrictions relative to the use and

[1:09:44] dimensional provisions of the underlying zoning. That sentence is intended to

[1:09:48] clarify what overlay districts do in general.

[1:09:51] » Thank you. Um, in the description of the poppiness overlay district, I also added

[1:09:58] it also allows for smaller setback requirements and limits structure height

[1:10:03] to 30 ft. It's just a couple of details that I think are important uh regarding

[1:10:07] the poppiness overlay district. It it it's not just smaller lots, it's also

[1:10:11] smaller setbacks and reduced height. uh 59.

[1:10:18] Um very little changes other than uh I uh

[1:10:24] added the following sentence to the light industrial overlay district. Uh it

[1:10:29] combines the use provisions of the commercial three and industrial one

[1:10:33] zones together with light industrial uses as defined in the zoning bylaws. Uh

[1:10:39] just so I think it's nice to have a clarity of what the actual use changes

[1:10:43] are that the light industrial overlay district accomplishes.

[1:10:47] Um so put that in there for a concise statement to do that.

[1:10:53] 510. A little bit more substantive changes here uh because of the updates

[1:10:58] to our formerly accessory apartment uh unit bylaw now called our accessory

[1:11:05] dwelling unit or excuse me our formerly accessory apartments bylaw now called

[1:11:08] our accessory dwelling units bylaw. So as you all recall uh it was uh

[1:11:15] approximately a year ago. So, the last Springtown meeting, we passed a bylaw

[1:11:21] that brought our accessory apartment uh bylaw into conformance with the

[1:11:26] affordable homes homes act provisions, the recently passed state law, the

[1:11:32] affordable homes act uh provisions relating to accessory dwelling units.

[1:11:36] So, this paragraph was significantly rewarded to walk the reader through that

[1:11:41] process. Uh passed a town meeting. It allows things like ADUs as of right um

[1:11:48] in single family uh neighborhoods and has various other provisions associated

[1:11:54] with it. So that's that's the genesis of those red lines. Uh

[1:12:00] I'm not sure why, but uh this section was origing that was originally labeled

[1:12:05] the setbacks bylaws, but it really talks about the wetlands bylaws. So, I changed

[1:12:11] the title of that and then I changed the first and the last sentence. Uh, the

[1:12:15] first sentence is the town of Mashby has local regulations for wetlands in both

[1:12:19] its general bylaws and it zoning bylaws. Then the majority of the text in that

[1:12:25] paragraph was left the same because it discusses both the general and the

[1:12:29] zoning bylaws uh as they pertain to wetlands. And then I added the sentence

[1:12:34] pending litigation may have implications for these

[1:12:38] provisions of the zoning bylaws or other related provisions like section 174-31

[1:12:44] which excludes from lot coverage calculation any wetlands as defined by

[1:12:49] MGL chapter 131 section 40 five

[1:12:56] » oh Karen has her hand raised >> hi Karen go ahead

[1:12:59] » uh wetlands I've kind of forgotten the section of that but um wetlands in

[1:13:06] there's a definition I think it's in the general laws wetlands are flood planes

[1:13:11] so I think you should define what what wetlands

[1:13:16] constitute >> so it's

[1:13:18] » I I don't have don't have that in front of me so I can't I can't tell you but

[1:13:23] » so it is >> all wetlands are flood planes

[1:13:26] » yeah so it is defined in the code and you're 100% right Karen that um our code

[1:13:32] does point to flood plains as a part of the definition of the wetlands because

[1:13:37] it references state statute. That's 100% correct. I feel that the code is uh you

[1:13:43] know unpacks that definition in detail and I think it may be just a tad uh

[1:13:48] verbio and a little less uh reader friendly if we actually took that whole

[1:13:53] definition from the co code and stuck it in here. Um the intentions of my last

[1:13:58] sentence there are to also reference that because that's that's the same

[1:14:02] provision of the code that provision. Yeah. So

[1:14:08] » I have um three questions for you. >> Sure.

[1:14:12] » So in our housing production plan, I think one of our zoning actions was to

[1:14:16] look at cluster subdivision that would allow multif family housing

[1:14:22] » perhaps. >> Yeah. So maybe we can double check that

[1:14:24] because if that it's in the HPP under zoning, we should probably add it in

[1:14:28] here. So we allow cluster subdivisions for single family detached units, but

[1:14:34] since we're trying to um offer different types of housing, not just the single

[1:14:41] family home, we were thinking that we could look at the cluster subdivision

[1:14:45] bylaw and allow for multif family, which it used to allow, right?

[1:14:50] » And I think it was a growth management technique was to withdraw that from take

[1:14:55] that out of the zoning, but now it might be good to put in. You might even get

[1:15:01] more open space out of it because you're taking all the units and making them

[1:15:05] even closer together. >> Yeah.

[1:15:07] » Um so yeah, it was cluster subdivisions that would allow multif family housing.

[1:15:13] » Um in here, do you have it referenced that

[1:15:17] you're working on the raise and replace bylaw?

[1:15:20] Um, I thought it was referenced. >> Yeah, you do.

[1:15:24] » Okay. >> I don't

[1:15:27] know where it is. >> The other Good. And then the other the

[1:15:31] last one was, >> "Hey, Karen, how are your ears?"

[1:15:35] [laughter] >> You're blowing ours away. Um,

[1:15:39] » I know. I'll try to whisper. >> Thank you. And then the other thing was

[1:15:43] and and forgive me for bringing it up like and not giving you a heads up

[1:15:48] before I thought that the town had to zone for shortterm rentals.

[1:15:55] I thought towns had to put them in the zoning bylaw as an

[1:15:59] allowed use. >> My understanding of the current Oh, no.

[1:16:03] No. It's not mandatory to my knowledge. It's not mandatory to my knowledge. My

[1:16:08] understanding is the current status of the law is if you do not have a

[1:16:13] prohibition on short-term rentals and do have rental provisions in your code,

[1:16:20] then the rental provisions in your code apply to short-term rentals.

[1:16:24] » So, we don't have to do anything as far as I know. Okay.

[1:16:29] » So, >> all right, then. Strike that. Thank you

[1:16:31] for that update. >> Any other zoning that we're working on?

[1:16:35] Go ahead, Rob. Oh, well, not zoning, but >> Go ahead.

[1:16:38] » My one of my comments I sent to you, >> you didn't incorporate it.

[1:16:43] » Yeah, I didn't incorporate any of your comments, Rob. You weren't supposed to

[1:16:45] be commented on chapter 5. You're supposed to bring your comments to this

[1:16:48] meeting. >> I did. I have.

[1:16:49] » So, raise them. [laughter] >> So, what do you got, Rob?

[1:16:52] » Okay. Wait, >> Mike. I can't hear you.

[1:16:54] » Okay. >> Okay. I found a couple of minor things

[1:17:01] uh when I took a review of this. Um table 53

[1:17:08] uh one of the columns uh talks minimum lot frontage

[1:17:13] in in the page >> what page are you on

[1:17:16] » 5.7 57 page

[1:17:19] » okay >> so minimum frontage is identified as

[1:17:23] square feet should be linear feet

[1:17:29] » um yeah that and that is a great uh point out and actually I thought I did

[1:17:34] put that one in there. So, I I retract my prior statement. [laughter]

[1:17:38] » No, that is that you should specify that that's linear feet. And I thought I did

[1:17:41] actually make that change. That's so weird.

[1:17:43] » Yeah, I that was a great catch. Yep. >> Okay. Uh then uh we we talked about uh

[1:17:50] my comment three and we were going to I was going to ask for a small town in

[1:17:56] paragraph 5.31 >> and you what page you're on, sir? Oh,

[1:18:01] uh, I'm reading my comments. Um, >> 5.31.

[1:18:07] » It It's 531. >> This is be on page 5-12 for folks

[1:18:13] » going from the packets. >> Yep.

[1:18:17] » And >> what what did you want?

[1:18:19] » I was going to add the uh word small town. Uh, please add the word small town

[1:18:25] after uh striking out the last line of paragraph one.

[1:18:31] » Um, so is that my paragraph one or the old paragraph one?

[1:18:36] » Cuz because the the paragraph one I completely rewrote the paragraph one in

[1:18:40] that. So >> 5.3.1 has an entirely new paragraph

[1:18:46] first paragraph. >> And

[1:18:49] that that's fine. That's fine. I see I think what happened is I had made my

[1:18:53] changes and then you sent your changes. I thought I had incorporated the ones

[1:18:56] that uh >> Well, it says in promoting its striking

[1:18:59] character. >> Oh yeah, that's where you wanted small

[1:19:02] town. >> Yeah,

[1:19:04] » right here. >> So you wanted striking small town

[1:19:08] character. >> Well,

[1:19:13] yeah. >> No, adding the word small town.

[1:19:14] » So I think instead of striking character, small town,

[1:19:18] » right? >> Okay, good.

[1:19:19] » You wait. Do you want to strike striking?

[1:19:21] » Mhm. >> I don't want to strike striking.

[1:19:23] » Striking small town character. >> Okay. I We can combine both.

[1:19:28] » Thank you. >> As long as we're not striking striking.

[1:19:30] » Okay. I will leave striking in for you about nothing. Move on, please.

[1:19:33] » Who's on first? [laughter] >> Okay.

[1:19:36] » All right. What's next, Rob? >> Okay. Paragraph 54

[1:19:41] 2, which is >> What are we doing now?

[1:19:45] » Page 12-3. 13 and 542. >> Yep.

[1:19:51] » And which number [snorts] >> look I guess uh let's see.

[1:19:57] Okay. Uh under policies police number nine.

[1:20:03] No. Uh >> under policies or under goals? Policies

[1:20:08] is 5.4.2. Goals is 5.4.1. >> Okay.

[1:20:14] 5. Under policies. Okay.

[1:20:18] » And and you said number nine. >> Yes.

[1:20:20] » Okay. So that's on 5-14, everybody. >> Okay. 514. Right.

[1:20:25] » And I just wanted Let's see. >> Get rid of that.

[1:20:31] » I wanted to uh It says uh please add the word and or civil after

[1:20:39] dot dot dot or uh proposed military operations

[1:20:45] on Mashby. So proposed military and/or civil operations.

[1:20:48] » Yes. >> Okay. You got it, sir.

[1:20:52] » And and my clarification was uh comment four uh has to do with recent proposal

[1:20:59] to relocate Hyannis Civil and commercial airport to Joint Base Cape Cod.

[1:21:04] » Oh, that's that was a great suggestion, man. I So

[1:21:07] » where is >> I know I added that. That's a really

[1:21:09] good point. And I know I added that, Rob.

[1:21:11] » Yeah. >> Okay. And so you want we should add that

[1:21:14] to nine, right? >> Uh

[1:21:17] » you want to Yes. We should be direct and say okay. So give me that sentence again

[1:21:21] please sir. >> Okay. Uh please add the word and or

[1:21:26] civil. >> Oh, I got that. The other one about the

[1:21:28] airport >> after

[1:21:31] and the or uh proposed military operations on

[1:21:37] Mashby. >> Yeah.

[1:21:40] » On Mashby. Just tell me the sentence about the airport. Just reread the

[1:21:44] sentence about the airport, please, sir. >> Oh. Oh, the sentence about the airport.

[1:21:48] Okay. Says, uh, uh, comment four has to do with recent proposals to relocate the

[1:21:56] Hyana Civil/Commercial Airport to Joint Base Cape Cod, JBCC.

[1:22:05] » Okay. So, I will just say take a careful

[1:22:11] look at recent proposals to relocate the civil

[1:22:18] hyenasis airport

[1:22:23] to JBCC if the issue

[1:22:29] presents because I think it's dead now, isn't it?

[1:22:32] » Yeah, I think and I think we should use engage.

[1:22:35] » Yeah. So >> again, engage where?

[1:22:39] » In the very beginning. >> Yeah. So

[1:22:41] » and engage in, you know what I mean? Like we want to engage in those

[1:22:45] conversations. Oh, >> okay.

[1:22:47] » You know. Yeah. Good. Good catch. Yeah. So that was all, you know, that whole

[1:22:51] discussion about the PAS pollution. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[1:22:54] » Right. >> Yeah.

[1:22:55] » And the bur and the and the environmental and other burdens on that

[1:23:00] area. So, it was I I've been to some of those

[1:23:03] meetings and they're like meeting, >> oh, we'll just put it in MASH PE and I'm

[1:23:08] like, that's the end of my street, guys. [laughter]

[1:23:11] » Very, very thoughtful comments and especially just even

[1:23:15] » not that it's our concern, but the tactical concerns about having a civil

[1:23:19] civilian airport on a military [laughter] base

[1:23:23] poses some unique challenges. Let's put it that way. So,

[1:23:27] » excellent com uh didn't Did I think,

[1:23:34] correct me if I'm wrong, maybe it might be almost 15 years ago, there was land

[1:23:40] on the base that was

[1:23:44] designated as surplus land. Remember the tribe

[1:23:50] » put in a letter of interest >> for that land.

[1:23:53] » Oh, amazing. >> I heard about it. I heard about this.

[1:23:56] » There's something very right. So I think the when the federal land is surplus

[1:24:01] land um indigenous tribes recognized tribes

[1:24:08] if I understand this right and I could be completely wrong

[1:24:10] » no they did >> have precedents

[1:24:13] » it it it's first dibs >> but what they did is they set up

[1:24:17] training for um >> they did something okay

[1:24:22] » to keep the base viable like >> it's it and you did some work in

[1:24:27] Falmouth too. Brian, you might have heard about this kind of stuff, but any

[1:24:31] type anytime that land becomes like surplus land, there's like a pecking

[1:24:36] order. But I remember it was in the newspaper that the tribe put in an

[1:24:40] official letter saying, "We're interested in it."

[1:24:46] » Okay. >> All right.

[1:24:47] » Got it. >> Bringing back memories.

[1:24:50] » I think it was in the Mashp Enterprise. >> That was That's a really good chapter.

[1:24:55] » Great job. Thank you. >> You're quite welcome. I'm not sure if

[1:24:59] you want me to, you know, button things up because the only other page with

[1:25:02] substantive changes is 512. If you want me to walk you all through that or if

[1:25:06] you feel it's sufficient coverage for now.

[1:25:09] » I'm good. >> Sufficient coverage for now.

[1:25:11] » And as long as those charts, the goals, the policies, and the actions match

[1:25:17] the list of goals, policies, and actions at the end of every chapter.

[1:25:22] » Sure. >> Do you know what I mean? Like you have

[1:25:23] to change them in both places. Yep. Right.

[1:25:28] » Right. So, we're going to add um after that nice summary of by year of

[1:25:36] how zoning or land use changed in Mashbury, we're going to add in there

[1:25:41] how the population changed. It's staggering. It's staggering.

[1:25:46] And then that little blue box or some type of info box about how in 1998

[1:25:52] the town set the population target at 15,000.

[1:25:56] » We should also target the summer population. Yes,

[1:25:59] » that goes up to 40,000. >> We we may even be able to do it as a

[1:26:03] double line graph, you know, summer population estimates over

[1:26:07] » year round estimates. And then you could even put another line marking where we

[1:26:12] hit 15,000, >> right? And it's very And that was 200.

[1:26:18] That was 2020. That was the 2020 census. >> Oh, really? Yeah.

[1:26:22] » And And what I'd love is the year that we would

[1:26:27] declared a nitrogen sensitive area. >> It's like right there.

[1:26:33] It's like the population hit that target goal and boom, I think within three

[1:26:38] years we were declared a nitrogen sensitive area.

[1:26:42] » Yeah. So that's >> so you talk people talk about all the

[1:26:45] time how do we know when we hit our environmental capacity? Well that's how

[1:26:50] you know.

[1:26:53] » So I have something here. So the next thing on the local comprehensive plan is

[1:26:58] chapter 8. This is uh pretty much all of Rob's changes. Um

[1:27:03] » all what? >> Rob's changes. Rob and I had not yet sat

[1:27:07] down to huddle up. in part I I have the capital facilities plan that I want to

[1:27:13] add to this. Um or I should say I have a draft of the capital facilities plan

[1:27:17] that I want to add to this. Uh the genesis of which came primarily from as

[1:27:22] I had mentioned in a prior board meeting uh conversations with uh Rodney Collins

[1:27:28] the town manager as well as Wayne Taylor the assistant town manager. And so um

[1:27:34] you know we kind of went over thing everything building by building. I did

[1:27:38] want to also loop in uh Katherine Laurent, the DPW director with all the

[1:27:44] snow storms, etc., etc., she's obviously had [clears throat] her hands full. So,

[1:27:48] we are just kind of waiting. Um, this isn't it's not a final capital

[1:27:52] facilities plan, but it didn't go in your packet. So, I wanted the board to

[1:27:56] decide whether or not to take a look at this draft or to wait until Katherine

[1:28:00] had the opportunity to opine on it. >> Bobby, wait. I mean, is there

[1:28:05] » I don't have any comments. No, >> changes to this right now. What we got?

[1:28:10] » Well, what I'm referring to, not chapter 8 per se. I'm referring to the capital

[1:28:14] facilities plan that I haven't yet added to it.

[1:28:16] » Right. >> Wait for Catherine's comments.

[1:28:20] » The only >> I like that. I like that, Dale.

[1:28:22] » Agreed. >> And then um

[1:28:26] » Dale says with the eyes of a young father, [laughter]

[1:28:30] » can I please go home and put my kids to bed,

[1:28:33] » please? So, um the the only thing I've ever really picked up on on facilities

[1:28:40] is um the library is is during storm events

[1:28:48] or heat waves. The library is often used as a de facto shelter.

[1:28:55] Um but they don't have a generator. Um, so we might want to see if that's in

[1:29:03] the capital plan. I think that the library director has talked about it.

[1:29:08] » When when was the last time it was used? >> Um,

[1:29:12] maybe I don't know. I'd have to ask her. >> Well, li the library is discussed in the

[1:29:16] capital plan. Let me see what it says. And we can

[1:29:19] » the library >> cross reference any comments with Kath's

[1:29:22] comment as well. But let me see. >> Cuz there were parts of town that was

[1:29:27] out and it it could be it's within the last decade cuz I remember we went my

[1:29:35] daughter and I went to the library. No, she was in college. So it's the last

[1:29:41] it's within seven years. So we went to the library because parts of town were

[1:29:46] out for power and everybody was at the library.

[1:29:51] Everybody. It was like mobbed and luckily they had power. But I saw the

[1:29:57] library director and I was like, "Oh, thank you for being here and keeping

[1:30:01] this open for us." And she said, "Well, we're lucky. We didn't lose power. This

[1:30:06] is a great spot for a generator." >> Oh, so you're saying consider adding a

[1:30:11] generator? >> Have making sure the library has a

[1:30:14] generator. So during storm events is a public place for people to go get warm,

[1:30:21] try to get on the internet, read a book. The

[1:30:26] » library is the only shelter. >> No, we went to the school with Hurricane

[1:30:30] Bob. >> Yeah, that's what a lot of a lot of

[1:30:32] towns do schools because there's just more space.

[1:30:34] » Yeah. >> But it's I'll tell you a lot of people

[1:30:39] will go to a library that's open and heated before they'll go to

[1:30:43] » I added the common. Thank you. Then they'll go to a a a an auditorium.

[1:30:48] » The official the official official shelter

[1:30:50] » for the library that were already there were adequate condition constructed in

[1:30:55] 2010. So no no funds are necessary. Where do you think we would get funds

[1:30:59] for the generator for that though? >> Uh general fund

[1:31:02] the capital plan >> RCA develop.

[1:31:04] » How about CPC? That's community, right? It's uh I'm not I'm not

[1:31:10] I'm not sure that that facility is covered by um a recreational

[1:31:18] building might be. >> Okay.

[1:31:21] » But not a library. Excuse me. >> There's an RCA store just down the

[1:31:26] street. Maybe they can work out a deal. [laughter]

[1:31:30] I mean, they do a lot of business in this town. It's only

[1:31:34] » Well, I remember when when we had a blizzard, remember Panera was the only

[1:31:38] place that was open and everybody in town was there

[1:31:43] and the general manager kept coming in and going, "Okay, everybody, we love you

[1:31:47] very much, but you can only sit at the seat for two hours and then you have to

[1:31:50] go and let somebody else have a seat." It was like everybody's rotating in and

[1:31:53] out. >> So, I think the uh the short of it is

[1:31:58] then that the board is comfortable with the current changes to chapter 8. I may

[1:32:02] give it a once over as I discussed after I get feedback from Katherine on the

[1:32:08] capital facilities plan and then I'm going to just insert it into that

[1:32:11] section in an appropriate place. >> Um

[1:32:14] » I think so. >> Yep. Great. So eight's down. So Dale, we

[1:32:21] just need seven from you and >> seven and then um

[1:32:26] » did we ever get anything from the historical commission?

[1:32:29] » My comments. >> What's that? We never sat through my

[1:32:32] comments, >> but Well, I think everybody's saying

[1:32:34] they looked at them and they were good with them.

[1:32:35] » Do you want to go bring us through them, Rob?

[1:32:38] » Dale doesn't want you to, but [laughter] >> Well, well, wait a minute.

[1:32:42] » No, no. Last time I got criticized for letting us go after 10.

[1:32:47] » It was a joke. It was a joke. >> My apologies. I thought before they went

[1:32:52] out to the board, you and I would sit back.

[1:32:54] » We can do that. We can do that. we can. So, I think what we can do,

[1:32:58] » how about how about once we get >> Okay.

[1:33:01] » the capital plan comments in here, >> we authorize Rob and Brian to finalize

[1:33:09] chapter 8. >> All right.

[1:33:11] » Okay. >> So, Catherine, after you get Katherine

[1:33:14] Lance's work in there, then you and Rob finalize it. How's that, everybody?

[1:33:20] » Sounds good. And we'll we'll hopefully time that with Dale's as well. And we'll

[1:33:24] just crank out seven or eight and then we'll be done. And

[1:33:26] » so Dale, what you're doing sustainability

[1:33:29] » chapter seven? Yeah. >> It's open space and wreck, I thought,

[1:33:32] isn't it? Or no, >> sorry. So, which chapter is that? That's

[1:33:36] not seven then. My apologies. >> Okay.

[1:33:38] » We already do sustainability. >> We already did seven. We already did

[1:33:41] seven. >> And then we have heritage and cultural

[1:33:44] resources. >> That's you too, right? No, it I sent it

[1:33:48] to the historical commission. >> Oh, so we have to follow up with them.

[1:33:54] » Ava emailed me that she had comments, so I will follow up with them.

[1:33:59] » Okay. >> Can I get CCed on those if I'm not

[1:34:02] already? >> Yeah.

[1:34:02] » Okay. >> Thank you.

[1:34:03] » Awesome. >> I think I think they switched over to my

[1:34:06] Hotmail account. Sorry about that. All right. Um

[1:34:13] Karen, anything else on the LCP? Jason, >> I think it's very good.

[1:34:21] » Great. Did we delete that language about in the

[1:34:26] neighborhood? I think I the dog started barking when I

[1:34:31] » We did >> heard that. Okay. About the

[1:34:34] neighborhood, you know, neighborhood store kind of thing you were talking

[1:34:38] about. >> Yes.

[1:34:39] » We showed in two places. >> Oh, where was the second place? We only

[1:34:42] deleted it now. Oh gosh, I don't know now.

[1:34:45] » Is that in the list at the end of the chapter?

[1:34:50] » Yes. >> Yeah. So, right. So, the the goals,

[1:34:53] policies, and actions are listed in two places. In the chart and then as a list

[1:34:57] at the end of the chapter. So, whoever we have proof it all, you know, at the

[1:35:03] end. We have to make sure that the changes we've made to the chart make it

[1:35:07] to the lists at the end of every chapter. So, that will be done.

[1:35:13] Thanks, Karen. All right. New business, proposed zoning

[1:35:18] bylaw amendment, article five, non-conforming building and uses red

[1:35:23] lines. Do you want to take us through that, Brian?

[1:35:26] » Sure. Just a moment, Madam Chair. I want to make that change that Karen suggested

[1:35:32] and then I want to turn to that portion of our packet.

[1:35:38] For some reason, I thought we were covering the annual report before that.

[1:35:42] Um, that was next up in the packet.

[1:35:49] Okay.

[1:35:53] So, okay, let me just >> Yeah. So, the short of it is this. As

[1:35:59] you all know, we created what's now called PENS, right? It stands for pre a

[1:36:04] pens working group, which stands for pre-existing non-conforming structures.

[1:36:10] » So, say that again. pre-existing. >> That was no reflection of Karen's

[1:36:14] thoughts on pens. That was I think her reacting to her cat. [laughter]

[1:36:18] » So it's pre-existing noncon.

[1:36:23] [laughter]

[1:36:26] » Um so PEN stands for pre-existing non-conforming structures. This was

[1:36:30] formerly the poppiness raise and replace. The raise and replace is only

[1:36:34] one portion of that bylaw which is article 5. The primary theme that we're

[1:36:39] addressing is structures and/or non-conforming lots. Um, we formulated a

[1:36:46] working group to discuss this issue. Uh, during the course of the working group,

[1:36:51] I realized that you could really categorize the changes that we were

[1:36:56] looking to make into two overarching categories. The first overarching

[1:37:00] category is changes to the bylaw to make it compliant with current state law and

[1:37:06] to more clearly reflect how it's actually being applied now, which is

[1:37:12] compliant with current state law. The second category of changes is criteria

[1:37:18] for the ZBA to go by when they're either issuing a special permit or a section

[1:37:24] six finding on pre-existing non-conforming structures.

[1:37:30] Um that second category is going to require more expansive public input. And

[1:37:36] so what I recommended to the working group and the working group unanimously

[1:37:40] agreed is we would bifurcate the process. We would first make all the

[1:37:45] changes that needed to be made in order to make the Karen can you put us on mute

[1:37:50] please?

[1:37:53] » I'm sorry. Just excuse me, Rose. Can you come here, please? I You know, I'm not

[1:38:01] that skilled in this thing. I'm looking to put

[1:38:04] » So, you can just mute yourself by clicking audio and and killing the

[1:38:08] audio. >> I'm looking for audio.

[1:38:12] » Lower lower left hand corner.

[1:38:18] » Oh, okay. So um the working group agreed that we

[1:38:24] should go ahead and move forward with the changes that are basically

[1:38:28] departmental changes in technical in nature and therefore do not require

[1:38:32] expansive public input or discussion among the working group but are

[1:38:36] nevertheless fairly uh comprehensive. Um and so that's what we're bringing

[1:38:41] forward for this spring town meeting and that's what's in front of the board.

[1:38:45] Now, the plan of the working group is after this ideally passes at Springtown

[1:38:50] meeting, we then know what we're working from, which is current with state law.

[1:38:55] So, we're then building off of that to do something that's MASHP specific in

[1:38:59] setting those criteria for either a special permit or a section six finding

[1:39:04] under article 5, uh, which addresses pre-existing non-conforming structures

[1:39:09] and lots. So, that's the context. I'm happy to walk you all through the red

[1:39:13] lines, but I think in the interest of time, it may be best just to answer any

[1:39:17] questions the board may have about these red lines, but they're based on the

[1:39:22] Bjorkland case as well as a series of other cases that followed from the

[1:39:25] Bjorkland case, uh, which was a Supreme Judicial Court case and, uh, they also

[1:39:31] involve a land court case, um, which slightly modified Bjorkland.

[1:39:39] » So, I do have one edit. Yeah. >> Um,

[1:39:44] in section 17.1A, I think the first sentence

[1:39:50] shall be torn down, not to down. There's a typo.

[1:39:57] » Oh, >> it must have been some type of optical

[1:40:00] reader. >> Yeah.

[1:40:03] » Um, >> you sure it says torn?

[1:40:06] » That may actually in mine it says torn, but maybe it's just my eyes. But I'll

[1:40:11] I'll make a note of it. >> I see it as Tom.

[1:40:13] » It does say Tom. >> Well, it definitely shouldn't say Tom

[1:40:15] down. So, I I made a note of it. >> And it's just like the one you caught on

[1:40:20] 17418 on the next page. >> You caught that. It was con fawning and

[1:40:26] it needs to be conforming. >> Yeah.

[1:40:29] » So, there must have been some optical reader that converted some version of

[1:40:34] the bylaw. >> Better. There's two really embarrassing

[1:40:36] typos [laughter] in our zoning code. >> That's really bad. Tom down.

[1:40:40] » Yeah, don't tom down any structures. >> But otherwise, I mean, I see these

[1:40:45] changes as not changing this bylaw, just clarifying it.

[1:40:50] » It's clarifying it because the way the bylaw reads now, like it

[1:40:57] it's being applied in a slightly different manner and the way it's being

[1:41:00] applied is compliant with state law. Does that make sense? So, it's updating

[1:41:04] it to more more accurately reflect both state law and how it's being applied.

[1:41:10] And that's because how it's being applied is in compliance state with

[1:41:13] state law. Yeah. >> And that this working group, this Pence

[1:41:18] working group, they've seen this. >> Oh, 100%. And we had at least two

[1:41:22] meetings dedicated exclusively to >> And they're good with it.

[1:41:25] » Yes. >> Okay.

[1:41:26] » Yep. >> So, I um I like it. I think we should uh

[1:41:30] vote to send it it submit it as a proposed amendment to the zoning bylaw

[1:41:35] and we should send it into the board of selectman for inclusion on the warrant

[1:41:41] and that's due on Monday the 9th. Is that good?

[1:41:45] » Anybody want to make that motion? >> I make that motion. So that's be

[1:41:49] » Is there a second? >> Second.

[1:41:51] » Is that motion acceptable, Brian? >> Absolutely.

[1:41:54] » Okay. It's going to be roll call vote. Michael,

[1:41:56] » yes. >> Dennis,

[1:41:57] » yes. Dale Karen, >> she's muted.

[1:42:02] » Just thumbs up. >> She waved

[1:42:06] » for the record. >> Yeah, she's a yes and I'm a yes. Rob,

[1:42:10] how do you feel about it all? >> I do.

[1:42:12] » Okay. He supports it as well. Okay. >> Looking at this gives me a nostalgic

[1:42:18] feel. When I when I first started, we were they were talking about this

[1:42:22] [laughter] was even being said.

[1:42:25] It's really e excellent work. Thank you very much.

[1:42:28] » Thank you. I appreciate that. Very nice. >> Thank you.

[1:42:31] » Okay. Uh I drafted up an annual report. Don't know if you guys have any

[1:42:36] comments.

[1:42:40] » My only comment is it looks great. >> Thank you.

[1:42:44] » So you do you want to take a you want to take a vote

[1:42:48] » to to send in that annual report? I I I make a motion we accept this accept the

[1:42:53] stand and report as >> and send it into the

[1:42:56] » Yep. Is there a second? >> Um I before you do that Yeah. I just

[1:43:01] » uh one little clarification. You have my name who reports to on the activities of

[1:43:07] the Cape Guide Commission. Now it's Dale since he's on the commission.

[1:43:12] » Um well this was last year. [laughter] >> Okay.

[1:43:14] » I'll just keep you there.

[1:43:18] There's a place there. >> Yeah.

[1:43:21] » Where was that spot? Wait, give me a second. Oh, correct. Correct. Pickle

[1:43:26] Island. >> Okay.

[1:43:31] » Oh, yeah. That's actually in the center of the first paragraph. Instead of

[1:43:34] pickle island, it should say Island Pickle. So, we can make that change.

[1:43:38] » Island Pickle. All right. Thank you. [snorts]

[1:43:46] Great catch, Karen, as usual.

[1:43:51] » Pickle Island. Oh my god, [laughter] that is what I could find.

[1:43:54] » That actually is kind of a cool name, too, though, you know. [laughter]

[1:43:59] » All right. Uh, with that uh edit, I'll take roll call vote. Michael,

[1:44:05] » yes. >> Dennis,

[1:44:06] » yes. >> Dale,

[1:44:07] » yes. >> Karen,

[1:44:08] » yes. >> Mary's a yes. And Rob, how do you feel

[1:44:11] about it? >> Yes.

[1:44:11] » Good, too. All right. All right. I'll submit that.

[1:44:16] Okay. And then town plan or report. >> Um I am not going to report on anything

[1:44:24] this evening. >> H

[1:44:25] » I'm not going to report on anything this evening.

[1:44:27] » So there's something in here we need to sign.

[1:44:29] » Oh yes. Sorry. I do need to report on something this evening.

[1:44:33] I'm I'm uh >> the annual anti-discrimination and

[1:44:37] anti-harassment policy. Uh, and then I did want to briefly chat about the

[1:44:41] affordable housing speaker series. >> All right. So, we received it in our

[1:44:44] packet. There's a form we need to sign. >> I want to have everybody's signature on

[1:44:48] one form, so I'm going to pass it around.

[1:44:51] » Okay. >> Uh, actually, there are two separate

[1:44:55] forms. um one that you're going to print your

[1:44:59] name on and sign and then the other is uh list of signatures. So, let's just

[1:45:10] do them both. >> While that's passing around, I do want

[1:45:13] to go back to um chair's report. >> I got an email from somebody that works

[1:45:22] for GHD

[1:45:25] translation. GHD >> GHD is an engineering firm and the town

[1:45:31] has hired them to do a lot of our wastewater planning and engineering. And

[1:45:38] so I didn't know what it was at first. It's a pre-notice

[1:45:44] of a of the of the town's official notice of project change for the

[1:45:50] wastewater nitrogen management plan. and it's due out that notice of public

[1:45:58] change like that public notice >> is going to be published

[1:46:03] February 11th in the environmental reporter that mass

[1:46:08] DP um has they have a website I don't did

[1:46:15] you receive their email >> I'm sorry I was distracted okay GHD

[1:46:20] email about what >> GHD

[1:46:24] on behalf of the town is submitting to Mass D

[1:46:30] a notice of project change to our

[1:46:35] » ENF or ENIF, whatever. That's our nitrogen management plan.

[1:46:40] » You want to say >> you don't. Okay. So, it took me a while

[1:46:43] to figure out what this was and the links they had were like to Google Docs.

[1:46:47] I could never get in. But um it's this legal notice is going to get posted on

[1:46:53] the mass D website on February 11th and it's it's for the um

[1:47:00] » No, it's for for it's for the satellite wastewater treatment plant north of

[1:47:04] Mashby Wakeby. >> Right.

[1:47:06] » So that's coming out on the 11th. So, it was like a pre-notice

[1:47:13] that went to um because I'm the chair of the planning board, I was on the

[1:47:18] recipient list. And see, it might have gone to an old email address for the

[1:47:24] planning department. >> That may have.

[1:47:26] » So, it just warns you you're going to get

[1:47:29] it. >> Yes. It's a pre It's a pre-notice of the

[1:47:33] official notice. So, and I think it I think it even went

[1:47:38] to like my old email. I think it went to my Hotmail account and not my um

[1:47:44] » Gmail account. >> So, I'll get it. I'll send it to Brian

[1:47:48] and you might want to make sure you're on that list.

[1:47:51] » Yes. And we should also distribute it to the board.

[1:47:54] » Yes. >> And then I'm assuming I'm going to get a

[1:47:57] copy of the the um the notice on the 11th. I'm assuming they're going to

[1:48:02] email it since they told me it was coming.

[1:48:05] Oh,

[1:48:09] it's for you.

[1:48:22] Okay. May I circle back and chat a bit about um the affordable housing

[1:48:27] committee speaker series while folks are signing?

[1:48:31] » Yep. Started sign. Yes, Karen. >> Uh, when is that to be put in when

[1:48:39] resource department? No later than February 13th.

[1:48:43] » So, how would I get that? Do I need to sign it?

[1:48:46] » Uh, if you get me an ecopy, I think we should be good. Is that something you

[1:48:50] could sign on your own and scan up and email on over to us?

[1:48:54] » Is this I'm only signing one of these, right?

[1:48:57] » No, please sign both. Oh, yeah. One one of that

[1:49:00] » and then there's another one coming along. Yep. I I'll talk to you about

[1:49:04] that. >> Yeah, let's we'll handle it offline, but

[1:49:06] we'll make it work, Karen. Not to worry. You don't have to fly back up or drive

[1:49:10] back up rather. >> There's another one. See?

[1:49:13] » Thank you.

[1:49:16] » Yeah, we'll bring it.

[1:49:21] » Um, so just chatting briefly on the le let's talk housing speaker. We had two

[1:49:26] fantastic speakers here this week. um Reinie Hammond, who's the program

[1:49:31] coordinator for Barnesville County Home Consortium, uh as well as Erin Perry,

[1:49:36] the deputy director uh of the Cape Cod Commission. Um both did wonderful jobs.

[1:49:43] They brought really thorough and wellthoughtout uh slides that get into a

[1:49:49] lot of details and are excellent resources uh for big picture um issues

[1:49:56] uh and resources in affordable housing uh in Barnesville County, you know,

[1:50:03] basically on Cape Cod. So, uh that if you weren't able to make it because of

[1:50:09] the cold, I know it was it was very very cold that evening. Um it the video is

[1:50:14] BashPTV has put the video up on YouTube and the resources uh should be already

[1:50:20] up on our web page um including both the slides uh and a link to the video. Um it

[1:50:27] went really well. It was really informative. The affordable housing

[1:50:30] committee uh asked some very very thoughtful questions as usual. Um and

[1:50:35] there was some good discussion and dialogue afterwards. And we're getting

[1:50:39] excited for the upcoming speaker in March which is uh gonna be Poa and Hack

[1:50:45] and they're going to talk about theair village project here in Mashby and uh

[1:50:50] Marylair is going to be the guest of honor. So should be exciting. So that'll

[1:50:54] be the the first um first week in March coming up next month. So

[1:51:01] » awesome.

[1:51:11] Thank you. >> Those are the blank.

[1:51:15] » Those are the blank ones. >> I found the emails,

[1:51:18] » Brian, I'm sending them to you now.

[1:51:23] [clears throat]

[1:51:25] » And then Mary, after the meeting, I just have a couple things for you to sign as

[1:51:28] chair. Okay. >> All right. Uh board member committee

[1:51:32] reports Cape Cod Commission. >> No meeting

[1:51:37] community preservation. Okay. So um at our last meeting we made we voted

[1:51:44] and made uh two uh recommendations. Uh the town meeting um one was for the

[1:51:52] historic preservation of the Baptist church on Route 130 which is in the

[1:51:56] historical district. >> Right. Yep. Right. And so, um, we're

[1:52:02] provide we rec we're recommending to town meeting an authorization of

[1:52:06] $100,000 of community preservation money to, um, do the roof and siding and doors

[1:52:12] of that building, um, to maintain, um, the building structure, preserve its

[1:52:18] historic value, um, Brian Hyde, who's uh, the chair of

[1:52:24] the historical district >> commission or commission. and then also

[1:52:29] a member of the historical commission. >> Yeah.

[1:52:32] » Really had some spectacular things to say about

[1:52:37] who it's a simple building, but who has been members of that congregation and

[1:52:43] how important it was to have that congregation here in town. Um he said

[1:52:47] that it opened up in the 1930s when there was a lot of segregation. And so

[1:52:52] it made that congregation uh which originally met at town hall um and and

[1:52:58] then started to meet in a in a spot that where a donated building was placed. It

[1:53:03] made safe space for people to meet that were otherwise segregated uh from uh

[1:53:10] religious worship. Um so that was that was kind of cool. Um

[1:53:17] then um they also voted recommended to vote I think it's

[1:53:23] $400,000 for the restoration of the Amos house

[1:53:29] which is on Great Neck Road South. >> Yep.

[1:53:33] » That's the property that's owned >> by by Fox.

[1:53:36] » By Fox. >> Yeah. So um

[1:53:39] » did they get that? It's private though, >> right? So anyways, there was uh

[1:53:46] basically it there's not a lot of historic buildings

[1:53:49] » in Mashby. People love that building. Uh people want it to be preserved.

[1:53:56] » Great. >> So there was there was a vote to support

[1:54:00] $400,000. The original request was four times that. It was 1.2 million. Um so we

[1:54:07] started talking about what would be covered

[1:54:11] by a historic restriction right that's the exterior work and like you know

[1:54:21] there was some there was some thought that even the plumbing inside it you

[1:54:24] know protects the exterior but a historic restriction would not restrict

[1:54:31] the plumbing inside so it was exterior and then Mr. Fox, you know, cut his

[1:54:37] request in half. So, it was like 50% of 50%. So, anyways, um that I'm sure we'll

[1:54:42] get some spirited conversation at town meeting.

[1:54:46] » Um so, we'll we'll see what happens. >> So,

[1:54:49] » yeah, because >> because he still have his rights to the

[1:54:53] property. >> It's privately owned.

[1:54:55] » Are you going to rent it out? >> Um and Right. And he's not he Yes.

[1:55:00] » Can I apply for one of those? >> Do you have a historic house?

[1:55:05] working on historical because I work for the

[1:55:09] historical you had to do hush here. >> Yeah.

[1:55:13] » Insulation. The paint had to be >> Yep.

[1:55:15] » You know, it it was I don't know how people really did that because they had

[1:55:20] to pick out the certain paints >> and make it the same way they did like

[1:55:25] » in Boston. They were like the 1800 paints and stuff. It was like pretty

[1:55:29] extensive. Well, I think if Mike put a plaque on his house that said the

[1:55:32] Milbury house and then just put 1890 on it, that would

[1:55:36] » almost pass. Right. >> Right. They're going to require a plaque

[1:55:40] that it be that it be restored to the federal standards on historic

[1:55:46] rehabilitation. >> In all seriousness, that is a really

[1:55:48] cool and note and noteworthy history. You know, I do think it raises the

[1:55:53] question about private ownership and CPC funds, which I don't have the answer,

[1:55:57] » right? And Yep. So, we did have town council

[1:56:01] um come in and talk to us and if the if the town determines that it's being

[1:56:09] preserved for a his its historic bene benefit

[1:56:14] and does not violate the anti- aid laws like aiding somebody

[1:56:22] [clears throat] personally with public funds, then they you could go forward.

[1:56:26] So, is he going to petition to make it like a state historic landmark or

[1:56:30] something like that? >> So, at this time, there's no public

[1:56:33] access to the property. >> We did request that the property is

[1:56:38] opened up x amount of days a year, you know, for historic tours. Um, but since

[1:56:45] it's being rented out, um, he wasn't comfortable doing that.

[1:56:50] When he first bought that property, there was a little building beside it

[1:56:54] and he he was going to make it his office and they put a driveway going

[1:56:58] towards that. So, was that historical or was that added on? Because he changed it

[1:57:04] all. I mean, what do you do with that building?

[1:57:06] » Right. >> And what about like a local historic

[1:57:09] restriction? Is there going to be a local historic restriction placed on it

[1:57:12] or >> It's going to be the state's historic

[1:57:14] » Oh, it is >> uh restriction. Yeah.

[1:57:16] » All right. So the the town's community preservation program Yeah.

[1:57:21] » uses the state's model restrictions. >> Okay. Right.

[1:57:26] » The interpretation of our chair that that is required and I support that.

[1:57:30] » I I mean I like to keep that building but

[1:57:33] » it's very difficult. So a lot of members um

[1:57:38] I think there were two members that voted no.

[1:57:41] » Right. And uh we anticipate debate um on town meeting floor about these

[1:57:49] issues. Um it it right it and there was an idea

[1:57:54] floated by one of the members. Um if that building were to um apply for a

[1:58:02] demolition permit, >> there would be an 18month delay.

[1:58:05] » Oh, is it up to 18 months now? >> I think so. That's what I haven't read.

[1:58:09] » Oh, that's right. Cuz we got the Yeah. Okay. We have a demolition delay bylaw.

[1:58:13] » Yeah, I think it you Well, okay. Anyway, >> and that would give time for the

[1:58:17] historical commission to try to save the building

[1:58:20] » or salvage the parts of the building. Sometimes they take out beams and

[1:58:24] windows and doors and store them for something else. Um, but at this point

[1:58:29] I'm not hearing that the historical commission

[1:58:33] um, uh, is going to approach the community preservation

[1:58:38] committee for money to transport that building to another spot to salvage it.

[1:58:43] Um, mostly because it is very wide. It's it's it's very wide.

[1:58:49] » Well, it's a significant size parcel too. lie it and do it like you know we

[1:58:53] have a museum at the bottom an office space or something for the historical

[1:58:57] commission I mean I I don't want to see that building go because we don't have

[1:59:03] many historical building >> it's it is really nice looking too it's

[1:59:06] it does have >> yeah but that begs the question if you

[1:59:10] don't have any access to it >> you put given them $400,000 and

[1:59:15] » he's just got a home improvement loan for free wave at the side Mhm.

[1:59:23] » And that's why Right. And that's why the church got a unanimous vote was because

[1:59:29] that's a public building. Anybody can go in there when it's open.

[1:59:33] » Yeah. >> Right. And you know

[1:59:35] » what about the pastor's building? Go work there. They have money, right?

[1:59:40] » Yep. There was $400,000 provided to that to the tribe to do uh a

[1:59:47] detailed survey. I don't know if it's ultra I don't know

[1:59:52] what x-ray there's like this >> right and they wanted to document all

[1:59:57] the different parts. I don't know if that contract was ever signed. Um

[2:00:04] » put plywood around it. That was it. >> And uh sorry, which church was that

[2:00:08] again? right here down the street. >> Okay.

[2:00:12] » The I think it's the Baptist church. >> Oh, sorry.

[2:00:15] » Yeah, I think the pastor actually came into my office initially and I told him

[2:00:19] to put in a CPC. So, it's great to hear that he got funding.

[2:00:23] » Brian went there was there was a minister there. I want to say his last

[2:00:27] name was Green. Forgive me if I'm wrong. um and he he was their minister and he

[2:00:34] passed away and they had the funeral there and Brian said that bishops from

[2:00:40] all over the country came. >> Really? Yeah.

[2:00:42] » Like it's a it's actually it's a very simple building. It's a very simple

[2:00:47] site. >> It's been around since like the 30s.

[2:00:49] » It was Yep. But it it um it's connected.

[2:00:54] » Has a lot of history to it. has a lot of history and a lot of very important

[2:00:59] people in our community worship there. >> So, um, so sometimes it's not the most

[2:01:06] beautiful or spectacular building that can be historic. Sometimes it can be a

[2:01:10] perfectly simple building that has huge historic significance. So, but

[2:01:18] » okay, that's my report. Design review. >> Who's on that? Karen.

[2:01:23] » Karen. >> Yeah, she's going to say no meeting. Oh,

[2:01:26] there she is. >> Plan review.

[2:01:28] » No meeting. >> Environmental oversight committee.

[2:01:33] » No meeting. >> You meet next week though.

[2:01:36] » Next week. >> Yeah, I just cuz I looked at the list of

[2:01:38] meetings coming up. Historic district commission.

[2:01:40] » We just have one tonight. >> Really?

[2:01:43] » No. [laughter]

[2:01:46] No. [gasps] >> All right. A joke.

[2:01:50] » Anything else? >> Accept a motion to adjurnn. So be

[2:01:55] » is there a second? >> Second.

[2:01:57] » By roll call vote. Michael, >> yes.

[2:01:59] » Dennis, >> yes.

[2:02:00] » Dale, >> yes.

[2:02:01] » Karen, >> yes.

[2:02:03] » Mary is a yes. And Rob, how do you feel about that?

[2:02:06] » Yes. >> Yes. Sorry.

Mashpee Planning Board - February 4, 2026

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