[0:00] Oh, okay. All right, good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

[0:04] Uh, gentlemen, we're going to call this meeting to order of the Comprehensive Land

[0:09] Use Advisory Committee.

[0:11] Um, to order, um, our first order on the agenda is going to be our prayer and

[0:16] pledge, and I've asked Commissioner Jerry Strand if he would lead us in the prayer

[0:21] and Ms. Deborah Notley if she'd lead us in the pledge.

[0:24] So if y'all would please rise, Mr. Strand will lead us. You have the floor, sir.

[0:30] Heavenly Father, we thank you for this opportunity to serve this great community.

[0:35] We thank you, Lord, for choosing each one of us to help lead this community.

[0:40] And especially thank you for the community that comes forward that speaks for the

[0:45] brothers and sisters here in Murray County.

[0:48] We pray, Lord, that thy will be done and decisions made will be decisions We thank

[0:53] you for this wonderful nation.

[0:55] We thank you for this wonderful state that we live in,

[0:58] and this gracious county and the people who live in it.

[1:02] Lord, we thank you for sending your Son Jesus Christ to die for us,

[1:06] that we might live, we might find joy, peace in this life.

[1:10] Go with us now as we meet as a community. In your name we pray. Amen.

[1:15] Amen.

[1:18] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

[1:23] United States of America and to the republic

[1:23] for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible,

[1:26] with liberty and justice for all. Thank you all for that.

[1:30] Okay, our next item on the agenda,

[1:32] I want to tell everybody where our emergency exits are.

[1:35] We've got right here to the right of Robert, there's one back there in the

[1:40] Robert, there's one back there in the back, uh,

[1:40] where the double doors are, and over here between the 2 screens,

[1:44] if you go out that door to the end, you can go right at the sundrop box,

[1:49] and that'll get you outside as well.

[1:51] We ask that you have your cell phone silent for this.

[1:54] If you need to have any conversations, please take it outside.

[1:58] Our agenda description here— this isn't so much a debate or a meeting.

[2:02] This is a work session. This is a study session.

[2:05] So tonight Our consultant is going to be presenting to us the data that they've

[2:10] collected at the different meetings at the different schools that we've gone to,

[2:14] and I was hoping— there he is here, Mr. Perryman.

[2:17] Thank you for the generosity of the school system and letting us use those

[2:22] facilities during summer break to do all that,

[2:25] so please convey our thanks to the school board and all—

[2:28] and whoever needs to go for doing that and letting us do that,

[2:32] but all that data that's been collected, we're going to be—

[2:35] this body goes over that tonight,

[2:37] There is a table in front of the right screen right there in which the public,

[2:42] if they want to look at that map as well and make notes, that they can.

[2:46] So that said, the next thing we're going to do—

[2:49] so there's really not so much an agenda or a vote or things like that.

[2:54] Our consultant will talk about it more when we get to that part.

[2:57] But the next thing we are going to do is our public comment period.

[3:02] So in our— in the bylaws of this committee, we have a 30-minute period set

[3:06] committee, we have a 30-minute period set up.

[3:06] Anybody that wishes to come speak may come forward and do so.

[3:10] Is there— There is a sign-up sheet.

[3:12] If somebody— yeah, Chris, is anybody signed up back there? Yes, sir.

[3:16] Now, we will have another comment period at the end of the meeting as well,

[3:21] so what we'll do, each person will just— you'll come up,

[3:24] state your name and the district you live in, and you'll have 3 minutes.

[3:28] So the first person I've got is Glenn Alexander out of Cullioca.

[3:34] Yes, sir.

[3:34] Come on up to the podium, state your name, the district you live in,

[3:40] and you'll have 3 minutes. Glenn Alexander, a little bit of Collioca.

[3:46] I think it's 5th Civil District.

[3:48] My family has a pretty well ancient history with Tennessee back before Andrew

[3:55] Jackson. Some of them Grandpa Fulton, Tennesseans, Kings Mountain.

[4:00] The others followed Andrew Jackson down to New Orleans and came back to Tennessee.

[4:07] So we love Tennessee.

[4:09] You know, people look at the Civil War and they want to make it all bad,

[4:15] and it was bad, but the main issue That these Southern folks didn't want outsiders

[4:22] telling them what to do. And that's really the issue that we have here today.

[4:28] We have a handful of people, outsiders mainly,

[4:32] coming in and wanting to control our property,

[4:36] wanting to control if you have a driveway, wanting to control if you can—

[4:42] Right on a little country road,

[4:45] want to control that if you want to divide your property up into 5 acres or larger

[4:52] without being micromanaged to do so.

[4:55] But I'll tell you, if you live in a house,

[4:58] what's wrong with your neighbor getting a house?

[5:03] If you have a driveway, what's wrong with your neighbor getting a driveway?

[5:09] What would these people do that are so vocal trying to control us have done if we

[5:16] had— Tennessee, 20 years ago, said we don't want any more outsiders.

[5:21] If you're not from Tennessee born and bred, you don't get in here.

[5:27] If we'd only known— knew— if we'd only known what we know now,

[5:32] I wonder if we'd have put up some roadblocks.

[5:36] But I'll tell you, what we're dealing with here is someone telling you what to do

[5:43] with your property that you pay taxes on, that you take care of,

[5:48] and that you've got to leave to your children and your grandchildren.

[5:54] It goes back to the verse in the Bible, do you love your neighbor as yourself?

[6:01] And are you going to leave this place better or worse?

[6:05] Let's leave it in a better place.

[6:08] Sometimes leaving it in a better place is leaving it the way we found it. Thank you.

[6:15] Yes, sir. All right. Next person signed up is Theresa Sparks.

[6:20] And come on up, state your name and your district, and you'll have 3 minutes,

[6:27] district, and you'll have 3 minutes, ma'am.

[6:27] Theresa Sparks, District 9.

[6:29] Since we're talking about family history,

[6:33] let it be known that my family came down the Cumberland River on the Donelson

[6:39] Flotilla to Fort Nashboro. That's how long my family has been here.

[6:45] Way before Civil War, way before anything else happened. I love Tennessee.

[6:51] It's an agriculture state, and we live in an agriculture county.

[6:57] Like it or not, it's right here, and it's right here.

[7:01] I'm here, so, You know, just on that point, we have to feed people.

[7:07] A nation that can't feed people, a county that can't feed people, is a nightmare.

[7:13] It's— you cannot defend yourself if you can't feed people.

[7:18] If we don't have farmland, we can't feed people.

[7:23] Period. End of story.

[7:24] There are 3 ways to protect our farmland today. The greenbelt, that's economic.

[7:31] The AP district, which is a county designation,

[7:34] which is a fabulous tool if we can get people to use it.

[7:39] And the conservation easement, which— so they kind of go in that order,

[7:44] but they can work together.

[7:47] So let's take the AP district.

[7:51] There are counties— I have a playbook that I've written here.

[7:55] I'd love to pass this out to everybody.

[7:58] It compares all the counties around us— Knox County, Wilson County, Coffee County—

[8:04] to what we're doing.

[8:06] And the AP District stands out as a shining tool to be used for farmland

[8:11] preservation.

[8:12] And then I compare—

[8:13] I looked at every southeastern county and how they have deployed the AP District,

[8:19] a voluntary AP District. And there's incentives to do so, and there's great

[8:25] incentives to do so, and there's great ideas.

[8:25] And so what I would like to propose tonight is this body, as part of this land

[8:31] tonight is this body, as part of this land map,

[8:32] that we look at a voluntary agriculture preservation designation.

[8:36] And if my husband will stand up, on the back of his shirt is—

[8:41] I didn't have enough room for it, but the process is too lengthy.

[8:46] It's too cumbersome.

[8:47] Thank you.

[8:48] I didn't have all that real estate.

[8:50] We have an opportunity, and I outlined that here,

[8:54] to do an opt-in to the AP district. It's a simple form.

[8:58] It has to have legislative approval from this body, you know,

[9:02] whether that's the commission or whatever. But it's a simple opt-in form.

[9:07] It's notarized, and that burden now falls on the county And there's incentives in

[9:13] place to choose the AP district and to elect the AP district and to move

[9:18] elect the AP district and to move seamlessly,

[9:19] voluntarily into the AP district.

[9:21] So I have copies I would love to hand out,

[9:24] but I think it's a seamless approach to making this happen. All right.

[9:29] Thank you, Teresa. The next person we've got is Dave Townsend.

[9:34] Sir, if you'll come up to the podium. Let me reset this thing.

[9:38] Hello, I'm Dave Townsend. You have 3 minutes.

[9:42] Live off of Harlan Road on the north side of town.

[9:45] I'm also a real estate agent, been in the county in some capacity.

[9:50] I was a Central graduate in 1994, so I've seen things change over the years.

[9:55] It's I get it. There's a lot of reaction to this.

[9:59] One of the biggest problems I think that we're having is because the national

[10:04] homebuilders are the ones who are coming into the cities and they're utilizing

[10:10] into the cities and they're utilizing sewer

[10:10] systems and the existing infrastructure to expand outward.

[10:14] What I work with and who I work with are mostly the local homebuilders.

[10:19] These are the guys who are building on 1-acre pieces of land,

[10:24] building nice home developments,

[10:26] And they are getting squeezed out because of the national home builders into the

[10:32] main areas, as well as the limitations that we could be seeing with 5-acre lots.

[10:38] I want you to consider that if this body decides to go after 5-acre lot minimums,

[10:43] what we are going to end up with are really high lot prices.

[10:48] So you're looking $300,000 for some 5-acre parcels and even more.

[10:52] There's a parcel on Old Zion Road I saw today that was at $250,000.

[10:57] So you end up with some land value ratios that you end up having problems with that

[11:03] you cannot get funding for.

[11:05] And I'm happy to explain that in more detail, but I don't have a ton of time

[11:10] detail, but I don't have a ton of time here.

[11:11] I have a document here I prepared for you guys with 18 different negative things

[11:17] that a 5-acre lot could bring to Murray County.

[11:20] And I'm an avid gardener too, and I love the idea of agricultural preservation.

[11:26] That is A great thing if it is feasible.

[11:28] But you can't force a farmer to maintain their property.

[11:32] If they leave it to the next generation,

[11:35] that next generation may not have any interest in farming that property.

[11:40] So it's got to be a voluntary kind of thing, and you cannot just—

[11:45] I think you take away people's property rights when you start doing 5-acre lot

[11:51] minimums. One thing I thought of was if you had a 9-acre lot and a guy wanted to

[11:56] leave 1 acre to one of his kids, with a 5-acre minimum, you couldn't do it.

[12:02] You would have one lot that was nonconforming. You could not do that.

[12:07] So that's going to create a lot of problems for people who maybe have

[12:12] problems for people who maybe have thought, hey,

[12:13] I could leave an acre to one of my kids,

[12:15] but maybe they only had 5 to 10 acres to begin with, and so they're out.

[12:21] So—

[12:21] So I want you to seriously consider the implications of all these things,

[12:24] and if it's okay with y'all,

[12:26] I'll hand this document out so everybody has a copy of it.

[12:28] Just give it to the person on the end and he'll pass it down from there.

[12:31] Sounds good.

[12:32] Is that all you had? Okay. Next person on the list is Kevin, and is it Byer?

[12:38] B— Byer? Yeah, Kevin Byer. It is Byer. I got it right. Very good, sir.

[12:43] Please come up and state your name and your district, please.

[12:48] I'm Kevin Byer in District 9. We reside at 2293 Frankmoor Road.

[12:52] Um, so I'm pretty concerned that the advisory committee has been receiving

[12:58] advisory committee has been receiving biased

[12:58] and incomplete picture of what the community views are on the whole proposed

[13:04] community views are on the whole proposed zoning

[13:04] changes. I think there's a small group of people that are Overwhelming the public

[13:11] comment period. Overwhelming the public comment period to try to attempt to get

[13:17] downzoning through. Also, there's, I think,

[13:20] an attempt to pressure other people to adopt that position.

[13:24] I think the will of the people should really be—

[13:28] should reflect the broader community, not just a small number of people. Thank you.

[13:34] My wife and I have lived on Frank Moore Road in Collioca for about the last 5

[13:40] Road in Collioca for about the last 5 years.

[13:40] We bought our farm 18 years ago and have farmed cow-calf operations since then.

[13:46] I didn't come from a lot of money. I worked really hard for everything I have.

[13:52] I didn't inherit anything. And so we have 500 acres and about 200 mama cows.

[13:58] It's a lot of work. And so I don't— I'm— I don't think it's fair for individual—

[14:04] a small individual— a small group of individuals to come in and try to downzone

[14:10] individuals to come in and try to downzone our

[14:10] properties. What that—

[14:12] what happens with that is we lose a tremendous amount of property value.

[14:17] And I have no intent of selling or developing our property.

[14:22] I want to keep it the way it is.

[14:24] But I also don't want my kids to to lose a lot of potential funds that they have in

[14:30] the future. I don't know if they'll ever want to farm.

[14:34] I hope they do, but there's a good chance they won't. Okay?

[14:39] So I don't think that this area is at risk of a big development spurge or

[14:44] development activity anytime soon. The infrastructure is not there.

[14:49] We don't have the water. We don't have the road system yet.

[14:54] We don't have the schools.

[14:56] And just as the past speakers spoke about,

[14:59] the realtor said there are a lot of negatives when you downzone.

[15:04] When you downzone and go to 5 acres,

[15:06] that causes urban sprawl to occur because you have a lot fewer lots available closer

[15:13] to the city. And so you end up developing farther out. They're more expensive lots.

[15:19] And so a lot of these farms will probably get broken up. If you do that.

[15:24] So I think it may have the opposite intent of what people want to do.

[15:30] You know, there's a comment, I think,

[15:32] by some that downzoning or forming these agricultural corridors doesn't impact the

[15:39] value. Well, it really dramatically does.

[15:42] I think, you know, in reality, when properties get downzoned,

[15:46] there's dramatic loss in property values.

[15:49] Yes.

[15:50] And I think it's not fair for the community to make the farmers and the

[15:55] community to make the farmers and the landowners

[15:56] bear that— bear that downzone, that financial cost.

[16:00] The concerns that I think that I have, my wife has,

[16:04] and I think a lot of the farmers in the community is that downzone will result in

[16:10] severe land devaluation.

[16:12] That will reduce the amount that we can pass on to our children.

[16:16] And I've worked hard for what I have.

[16:19] And I don't think it's fair for people to come in and take that without

[16:24] remuneration. I think if you want to remunerate—

[16:28] if you want to take a lot of property value,

[16:31] then someone should be responsible for paying for that.

[16:35] And how is Murray County going to do that? Give me 15 more seconds.

[16:40] All right.

[16:41] Downloading farms for the benefit of others in the community is inherently

[16:46] others in the community is inherently unfair.

[16:47] It's— you're taking the property value rights of people who own property, um,

[16:52] and it shifts the financial burden to those farmers and the property values so

[16:58] those farmers and the property values so that

[16:58] other— others benefit.

[17:00] And as mentioned, the downzoning has the opposite effect that I think a lot of

[17:05] people believe it will. It accelerates rural sprawl. It raises housing costs.

[17:11] It restricts supply,

[17:12] and it ultimately results in a lot of well-funded developers to come in and

[17:18] ultimately buy properties cheap and then get them rezoned.

[17:22] So anyway, I appreciate your time. Thank you. All right. Thank you, sir.

[17:27] Next person up is Stanley Scott.

[17:29] Sir, come on up and state your name and your district, and you'll have 3 minutes,

[17:35] sir. Stanley Scott. I'm in the 9th District,

[17:38] and my address is 2241 Mooresville Pike.

[17:41] I've lived in Culeoaka my entire life on my, my 6th generational farm.

[17:46] This is where I intend to stay.

[17:48] If you go down the road just a couple of miles,

[17:52] you can say we're 9 or 10 generations.

[17:54] And I had ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War.

[17:58] My family and ancestors fought the British for more than 1,000 years in Scotland and

[18:04] Ireland so we could have freedom from a tyrannical, overbearing government.

[18:10] Then we came to America and fought them again to have freedom with an unmeasured

[18:15] amount of blood and treasure.

[18:17] Now it looks like we're gonna— Just make it a little closer in there. Okay.

[18:23] Now it looks like we're gonna have someone, in my opinion,

[18:27] try to diminish our right To truly own our property and dictate what we do.

[18:32] I say, why is it not mine to do as I see fit?

[18:35] Property rights are one of the main freedoms we have to be able to buy or sell

[18:41] freedoms we have to be able to buy or sell to

[18:41] whoever we choose. I think it's— I look at it like it's—

[18:45] you're trying to do maybe like you're going to eat an elephant one bite at a

[18:51] going to eat an elephant one bite at a time

[18:51] and you start You know, you do take this right from us and what are you going—

[18:56] right from us and what are you going— what,

[18:57] you go down that road, what right are you going to take from us next?

[19:02] I never intend to sell my farmland when— but when you go down that road,

[19:07] where are you going to stop? Which rights are you planning on taking away next?

[19:13] Careful what you wish for is what I have to say.

[19:16] I for sure do not want anyone—

[19:18] someone that come in from a transplant from another part of the country and tell

[19:24] from another part of the country and tell me

[19:24] what I can or cannot do with my property.

[19:27] And I'm probably ready to fight for it too.

[19:30] I think, you know, somebody's going to have to make some tough decisions and

[19:35] have to make some tough decisions and decide

[19:36] whether to put some impact fees on it.

[19:39] I hear you can't do that because of state laws, but get that changed.

[19:44] But, you know, don't take my property rights away from me.

[19:48] I don't ever want a foot of my property sold, but I can't, you know,

[19:53] I can't rule but so much from the grave. But it won't be sold in my lifetime.

[19:58] But I don't want somebody else telling me what I can or can't do with it.

[20:03] Thank you, sir. Thank you for that.

[20:06] Okay.

[20:07] And let's see, next on the list is Chris Grambling. You have the floor, sir.

[20:12] Give us your name and district. You'll have 3 minutes. Thanks. Chris Grambling.

[20:18] Sorry.

[20:19] Chris Grambling.

[20:21] District 9. A couple points.

[20:23] I would say that property rights don't exist in a vacuum.

[20:27] I don't think anyone wants me saying under the, you know,

[20:32] the banner of I can do anything I want with my property,

[20:36] that I'm just going to build a manure lagoon feet away from your house.

[20:42] I think that there's a very big difference between a family or a person owning a

[20:48] piece of property and doing reasonably what they want with it versus that person

[20:54] selling to a corporation, a general partnership.

[20:58] There's a very different thing between a land developer and a person doing what

[21:04] land developer and a person doing what they

[21:04] want to do with something.

[21:06] I'd also say that although I agree with Dave Townsend about the 5-acre thing,

[21:12] I would say we should consider that the AP does allow us to peel off acreage for

[21:19] families. There's the ability for the families to subdivide.

[21:23] So I just want to make sure that that's understood.

[21:27] But I also would say that, and I've said here before,

[21:32] the county is not homogeneous in its nature.

[21:35] Right outside that door is very different from my neighborhood in Culioca.

[21:41] And we shouldn't say that any one—

[21:43] we shouldn't say that all areas should be 5-acre minimums or 1-acre minimum.

[21:49] It should be applied.

[21:51] Applied in a sensible manner that respects the nature of the area.

[21:56] I think we also need to consider that it doesn't—

[22:00] the so-called downzoning doesn't degrade the property value.

[22:05] I mean, look at Leapers Fork. Look at what's happened up there.

[22:10] You know, Aubrey— everyone knows what Aubrey Preston did up there.

[22:15] And that's one of the most valuable areas for real estate there is around here.

[22:21] So I think we need to consider that. And I forgot my train of thought.

[22:29] Pardon?

[22:32] If you'll humor me for just a moment, please.

[22:36] Oh, there's a very big difference between a property owner having a family farm that

[22:42] are contiguous acres and those that are spread out, that are non-contiguous.

[22:48] And I question what the motive is about that.

[22:51] Is it about money or is it really about farming?

[22:55] And then the last thought I forgot, so I'll talk to you guys afterwards. Thank

[23:01] I'll talk to you guys afterwards. Thank you.

[23:01] All right. Thank you, sir. Next one up is Dustin Kittle.

[23:06] Uh, sir, if you'll come up and give us your name and your district,

[23:11] you'll have 3 minutes. I'll defer to the end if that's okay. Absolutely.

[23:16] All right, we'll do that at the end. Very good.

[23:20] That was the last person that has signed up for public comments.

[23:25] So that said, next item on the agenda is that we're going to turn it over to our

[23:31] consultants. Welcome back, and, uh, you have the floor, ma'am.

[23:35] All right, thank you.

[23:37] Pull that mic down so we can hear you good.

[23:39] All right. Is that good?

[23:40] Yes.

[23:41] Okay. So tonight we're going to have kind of a work session around the future land

[23:47] use map. And we've already been kind of on a journey with this map,

[23:53] but I figured it might be helpful to kind of go back and start with just kind of a

[23:59] refresher of what your existing future land use map looks like and how it works.

[24:05] So to start, a future land use map is a very key element of a comprehensive plan.

[24:12] It's really kind of the key focus.

[24:14] It's what people are going to look at first and refer to the most.

[24:19] And so it is a very critical part of the plan and the planning process.

[24:25] The future land use map establishes the vision for the community.

[24:30] It is not legally binding.

[24:32] No designation on a future land use map will change your zoning, change your

[24:38] will change your zoning, change your taxes,

[24:39] change change or anything. It's a vision.

[24:42] So it does not involve any legalness at all.

[24:45] But the kind of the purpose of how the future land use map is used is that when

[24:51] somebody comes in for rezoning of their property,

[24:55] they want to develop their property,

[24:58] you're going to look at what the future land use map says.

[25:03] You know, what does it recommend in terms of uses, in terms of lot sizes,

[25:08] and does that development match what the plan is saying.

[25:13] And making a decision when the Planning Commission and the boards make a decision

[25:19] based off of the recommendations of the comprehensive plan, that gives you that,

[25:25] that foundation for why the board made that decision.

[25:30] So that's, again, future land use maps.

[25:33] Your current Murray County future land use map looks like this.

[25:38] So And there's what, like 12 or so categories?

[25:41] It was set up where you had kind of these bigger categories and then these smaller

[25:48] categories that lived within the bigger categories.

[25:52] It was kind of a confusing setup,

[25:54] and my guess is it wasn't used to kind of the level that it was maybe intended to be

[26:01] used. And so I didn't think that this kind of organization of a future land use map

[26:07] was maybe your guys' like kind of ideal configuration.

[26:12] But again, this is kind of where we started.

[26:15] And then when we started looking at the future land use map,

[26:20] when we kind of look at it in a vacuum,

[26:23] This is where we went and what we brought to the public meetings last week.

[26:29] So we took kind of the feedback—

[26:31] so we kind of showed the existing future land use map at the school public

[26:37] land use map at the school public meetings,

[26:38] and we got some feedback on the map.

[26:41] But mainly those meetings were about the goals and objectives.

[26:45] So these are really the first times we're really talking about the map.

[26:51] Okay.

[26:52] And so when we had our meeting last week,

[26:55] I brought this map that no one had seen before and included the,

[27:01] the urban growth boundaries on it.

[27:03] So this map had the urban growth boundaries, which was this blue dotted

[27:09] boundaries, which was this blue dotted line,

[27:10] is your existing approved urban growth boundaries,

[27:14] and the dotted areas are the proposed growth areas, just to give you the

[27:20] growth areas, just to give you the context.

[27:20] And so What I had on this map was a combination of this green area,

[27:26] the green area of the county being proposed as 1 unit per 5-acre lot.

[27:32] So agricultural and residential, 1 acre per 5— 1 unit per 5 acres.

[27:37] The yellow being rural residential of 1 unit per 1 acre. So a 1-to-1.

[27:43] Okay.

[27:44] And then the orange was 4 units to an acre, and I went too far.

[27:49] So in my head, when I was looking at this from kind of a planning standpoint,

[27:54] you know, the areas within the urban growth boundary kind of makes sense for

[28:00] growth boundary kind of makes sense for more of

[28:01] a suburban development, but it doesn't make sense for your guys' community.

[28:07] And so we went too far with this.

[28:09] We had a great conversation, and, you know,

[28:12] we discussed basically getting rid of this suburban orange residential,

[28:18] which was the 4 units per acre,

[28:20] and pulling back the yellow so that the map would be mostly green with some yellow

[28:26] kind of buffers around the cities.

[28:29] And so that's— we kind of got that feedback last week and then have this

[28:35] feedback last week and then have this updated map

[28:35] for you today to review.

[28:37] So again, that was just sort of the evolution of how we got to where we are

[28:43] evolution of how we got to where we are today.

[28:43] The proposed map that we have in front of you today is by far not the final.

[28:49] Every version and iteration of this is something for you all to react to,

[28:55] for the public to react to.

[28:57] You know, this map is not final until that plan is adopted.

[29:01] And so we want the feedback, and I'll kind of explain mainly, you know,

[29:07] what feedback would be the most helpful.

[29:10] I mean, but any and all feedback is welcome.

[29:13] So before we dive into the map,

[29:16] I just want to go over kind of the future land use framework that I've set up here.

[29:22] So in your existing map, again, you guys have like 12 different categories.

[29:28] There's kind of these layers. I wanted to simplify it. And just establish 6.

[29:34] So right now we have 6 future land use categories.

[29:37] If that becomes 5 or 7 or 8, you know, we can add, we can take away as this evolves.

[29:44] But we have 6 on this map that you are looking at today.

[29:48] So the green area on the map, which is again the majority of the map,

[29:53] is identified as this agricultural and conservation.

[29:57] Okay.

[29:58] So this district would be, you know, your working farms,

[30:02] your very low-density residential, you know, your very rural,

[30:07] the things that you have going on in your rural areas now.

[30:11] And so you kind of can see here, you know,

[30:14] we have a sort of a setup purpose statement, some appropriate uses.

[30:19] Again, this wouldn't rezone by any means or change permitted uses.

[30:24] It's just supposed to kind of give that intent, that vision for that area.

[30:30] So each district is gonna have a purpose statement, a list of appropriate uses,

[30:36] and then kind of some character descriptions.

[30:39] And then as this evolves into the actual planning document, we'll add pictures,

[30:45] we'll add more additional text, you know,

[30:48] to further kind of explain what these districts are.

[30:52] So this is your low-density residential, agricultural, rural forestry, natural

[30:58] agricultural, rural forestry, natural area.

[30:58] And the recommended density for that at the moment is 1 dwelling per 5 acres,

[31:04] and I made this little graphic.

[31:06] And so that's the agriculture— agricultural and conservation.

[31:11] So then the yellow is rural residential.

[31:14] So this becomes your 1-to-1 residential density of 1 dwelling unit per acre,

[31:19] represented by that graphic. So you can kind of see that difference.

[31:25] And this would be, again,

[31:26] very similar in terms of like the uses and allowances as the agricultural and

[31:32] conservation, just having that smaller lot size and kind of serving as that

[31:38] transition between your rural areas and your more developed areas in the cities

[31:44] your more developed areas in the cities and

[31:44] things like that. So the intent again is sort of for that yellow area to be that

[31:50] transition. So we go from, you know, Big lot agricultural to, you know,

[31:55] slightly smaller to then the cities, you know,

[31:59] and their more urban suburban development patterns. So that's those 2.

[32:04] The 3rd category, I had it called hamlets last time.

[32:08] We call little kind of these little crossroad or rural crossroads or rural

[32:13] communities, a lot of times we call them hamlets in Ohio.

[32:18] But we're now— I changed it to rural communities,

[32:21] but this designation is blue on the map. You'll see it's very small and targeted.

[32:27] It is for the— like a designation for the existing kind of small rural communities

[32:33] like Collioca, like downtown, like the Santa Fe, Williamsport, those areas.

[32:39] And so where we have kind of, you know, usually there's a major crossroad.

[32:45] There's going to be a couple, you know, couple buildings or businesses,

[32:50] maybe a little bit of slightly denser residential right around where there's

[32:56] residential right around where there's that

[32:56] kind of service and commercial uses, but it gets pretty rural pretty fast.

[33:01] So that is the rural communities.

[33:04] The corridor commercial, this is new from last week too.

[33:08] So this is the darker purple on the map.

[33:11] We didn't have kind of an in-between commercial category.

[33:15] And so this district is sort of intended to serve as the county roads that

[33:21] to serve as the county roads that currently

[33:22] have or are intended to have kind of that commercial corridor uses.

[33:27] You know, where you have like on 31 in the areas of the county, you know,

[33:32] and there's commercial development,

[33:35] those areas are the areas going out to the highway.

[33:38] So I believe most of the areas that we have highlighted as this corridor

[33:44] have highlighted as this corridor commercial

[33:45] are areas that are currently zoned commercial on the zoning map.

[33:49] So those should just kind of be in line with what they would be permitted to do

[33:55] today. Employment is the light purple.

[33:58] That's, again, you're going to be intended for your more industrial,

[34:03] more large-scale employment.

[34:05] Those areas on the map are your currently zoned industrial areas.

[34:10] So future land use maps don't have to mimic zoning,

[34:14] but for communities where you want to kind of reinforce your zoning and that the map

[34:20] can be kind of used as a, you know, we want to keep industrial in these areas,

[34:26] we want to kind of keep it You know,

[34:29] the map is a way that we can kind of determine if you all want to expand some

[34:35] determine if you all want to expand some of

[34:35] these industrial employment areas or if you just kind of want to maintain the

[34:40] you just kind of want to maintain the areas

[34:41] that exist today, kind of without extensive expansion.

[34:45] So employment, office, industrial, you know, business parks, corporate campuses,

[34:51] supporting uses, you know, kind of what you think of with employment.

[34:56] And then lastly, we have regional interchanges.

[35:00] So this is a district that only applies To the interchanges with 65.

[35:05] If we— I'm not sure there's anywhere else it would be appropriate,

[35:10] but there could be some other areas of the county where we have kind of major road

[35:16] intersections that this might be appropriate.

[35:19] But I look at this as the more high-intensity commercial developments

[35:24] high-intensity commercial developments that happen

[35:25] around highway interchanges.

[35:27] You know, you have your hotels, your restaurants, your gas stations.

[35:32] Okay.

[35:33] your fast food. You know, you could have services, entertainment uses maybe,

[35:38] maybe professional uses, things like that.

[35:41] So your more kind of intense commercial development, but again,

[35:46] those should be pretty tight to those areas around that interchange without kind

[35:51] areas around that interchange without kind of

[35:51] snaking into the surrounding areas.

[35:54] So that's the idea of those Of kind of the 6 categories and how they would apply to

[36:00] the map. So in all these discussions, if we, you know,

[36:03] if you're thinking about the map and you feel like there's another category that

[36:09] we're missing that we should add, you know, let's talk about it.

[36:13] If we need to do something different, again, this is all draft at this point.

[36:19] Nothing is set in stone. So happy to, you know, kind of hear what you guys think.

[36:25] think if you think these 6 categories kind of accurately depict the different areas

[36:30] of the county, or if you think that we're missing something.

[36:35] So maybe we can just start with if there's any feedback on these 6 categories,

[36:40] and then we can start kind of looking about how those categories are applied to

[36:46] about how those categories are applied to the

[36:46] map. So any comments on the categories?

[36:49] Hit your button if you want to speak up.

[36:57] Okay.

[36:57] Thank you, Chair. Can, can we put a map up on screen?

[37:05] Yeah.

[37:05] Thank you.

[37:07] The current proposed one? The one that I have on the tables? Yeah.

[37:13] Well, that's— there we go. So I'll zoom it in.

[37:17] So this is the map that we have printed on the tables.

[37:22] So you can see that the majority of it is that green,

[37:27] which is that agriculture and conservation.

[37:31] And then we've pulled the rural residential into kind of these areas

[37:37] residential into kind of these areas around the

[37:38] cities. Where we had issues from kind of looking at this in our little vacuum,

[37:45] you know, and not wanting to kind of make the call,

[37:50] wanting you all to make the call,

[37:53] is these areas around like Mount Pleasant and Coleeoka where the lot sizes around

[38:00] the cities are all large.

[38:03] And I can't— if, you know, there's 2 40-acre parcels next to each other,

[38:09] I'm not going to say this parcel—

[38:12] Right.

[38:13] Should be suburban or rural and this one should be agriculture.

[38:17] So that's where we kind of need feedback and need to think through, you know,

[38:23] if there are existing large lots around these developed areas,

[38:27] are there certain parcels that would like prefer to be in the rural residential?

[38:33] You know, if there are certain property owners that want to be in that.

[38:38] Yeah.

[38:39] Let us know and we can, you know, identify that or look, you know,

[38:44] if it makes sense. Um, or the other thing, sometimes with—

[38:48] since a future land use map is not a legal tool,

[38:52] it doesn't have to apply directly to property lines.

[38:56] So the map that we have shown does, um, but the property lines are really,

[39:01] really light. The next version of the map, I'll—

[39:05] Okay.

[39:06] make them darker. But one idea that you all could consider is, you know,

[39:11] when we look at— oh, God, sorry.

[39:13] When we look at Coleoca, you know, we have the little hamlet area in the center.

[39:19] The lots around it, it's kind of— again,

[39:22] it's hard for us to make the call of where that boundary should be and if there

[39:28] should be any rural residential around Coleoca.

[39:32] So— That's all up for discussion, but what— instead of trying to identify, like,

[39:38] this parcel's in and this parcel's out,

[39:41] one thing you could do is just kind of establish a buffer.

[39:45] And so if we said, like, you know, any area within a mile or 5 miles of, you

[39:51] area within a mile or 5 miles of, you know,

[39:51] the hamlet boundary or of this intersection kind of would be appropriate

[39:56] intersection kind of would be appropriate for that

[39:57] rural residential.

[39:58] Okay.

[40:01] So then it becomes sort of a fuzzy line.

[40:04] You know, it doesn't actually tie to property lines.

[40:07] So if there's something like that that feels more appropriate,

[40:11] that is something we can consider.

[40:13] I just threw a circle on this map to, again, just show you kind of the idea of,

[40:18] you know, if we don't want to kind of handpick,

[40:21] that is an option for you all to consider. Okay.

[40:25] Jerry, was your light back on again?

[40:26] Oh, yeah.

[40:27] Okay, go ahead. Thanks, Chair.

[40:29] Yeah, if you pop that Culebra map back up there,

[40:33] you're going to see that you can't build a house in Culebra unless it's on 5 acres.

[40:40] That's rather absurd.

[40:41] Nobody can go in and build a house outside,

[40:45] just outside Culebra Unless it's on a 5-acre lot.

[40:49] If somebody, if one of the local contractors wants to build a house, I'm

[40:55] contractors wants to build a house, I'm not sure.

[40:55] And I don't get me wrong, I don't want to pile up houses.

[41:00] But when we do that,

[41:02] if we're looking all that big restriction and putting all the 5-acre houses in my

[41:08] mind, and I could be wrong, I see another thing like we have on Trotwood stuff.

[41:14] All we're going to do is just.

[41:17] Pack our— the area that the majority of the folks that live around in this county

[41:23] live in and just pack it full of 1-acre or 1-acre and quarter-acre lots.

[41:29] And all we'll do is just make the traffic much, much worse.

[41:34] Not that we want to peel it out, you know, all over the county, but nevertheless,

[41:41] we need to get off that 5-acre thing in areas that people would want to live in.

[41:47] In my opinion, and could afford.

[41:50] The price of a house on a 5-acre lot would be— well,

[41:54] I've worked my whole life and I doubt if I could afford it.

[41:59] Yeah, and that's a perfect example of— I agree, I 100% agree,

[42:03] but where do we draw that line? Where does the line exist between 1-acre and 5-acre?

[42:08] You just drew the line.

[42:10] You just drew it.

[42:11] I just randomly threw a line on a map. Without any analysis or—

[42:17] Okay, help me, help me understand,

[42:19] because it's difficult for all the folks sitting up here and the people even out

[42:24] there. Who's going to decide where that circle is? Is that—

[42:28] The collective.

[42:31] Yeah, what we're here to do. Yeah, but we're just an advisory committee.

[42:36] The Planning Commission will do that once we bring our findings to them.

[42:42] So this was again the map that we looked at last week.

[42:47] The blue dashed line is your— the current urban growth boundary.

[42:53] And so that again could be used as a tool to establish that buffer

[42:59] between the 1-acre and the 5-acre.

[43:03] But that current urban growth boundaries Kind of crazy.

[43:08] Hit your light so we can get your light.

[43:11] Give me all— what you have there, the current urban growth boundary,

[43:17] is that— how old is that?

[43:19] 2005.

[43:21] And so does the county have a plan to update that eventually?

[43:26] So, I mean, so I guess what I'm saying is And then, you know, with that, Sam,

[43:32] that is a joint effort with the municipalities.

[43:36] And once you open up the urban growth boundaries, you got 6 months to complete

[43:42] boundaries, you got 6 months to complete it.

[43:42] So some preliminary talks going into it before you ever open it up.

[43:48] That's a, that's a, that's a, that's a future undertaking that needs to occur.

[43:54] You're correct. But I guess what I'm saying is, or, you know,

[43:59] I guess what I'm getting at is if we do All of this and go outside of or inside,

[44:06] whatever, and then that changes in 2 years,

[44:09] then where does this stand at that point?

[44:13] Does it then overlay what the county decides? Does that make sense?

[44:18] Yeah. So at this point, again, your existing urban growth boundary is 20 years

[44:23] existing urban growth boundary is 20 years old.

[44:23] Sure.

[44:24] So you're going through the planning process now.

[44:27] So ultimately you'll have a future land use map that describes Sure.

[44:32] And that would be a good foundation to relook at that urban growth boundary.

[44:38] And so one of the just, you know, discussions that we had last week was

[44:43] discussions that we had last week was like, do we—

[44:43] can we pull some of these back?

[44:46] Like, the urban growth boundary includes like all of this area of Santa Fe.

[44:51] I always get that one confused.

[44:53] Basically all of Where it's orange and yellow in this area between Columbia and

[44:59] Spring Hill, that's all within the urban growth boundary. So that's a very big

[45:04] growth boundary. So that's a very big area.

[45:04] And so if that's something that we want to look at and pull that in at some point,

[45:10] that's a discussion with the cities.

[45:13] I just think, like, the 2 different maps are very different.

[45:17] Very different.

[45:18] And it just, you know, Maybe neither make any sense, but something in the middle,

[45:25] I don't, I don't know.

[45:26] But it just seems that, you know, like in this one that you have today,

[45:32] there seems to be a lot of areas that are already 1-acre tracts,

[45:36] or some maybe smaller than that, you know, that aren't—

[45:41] that are designated as 5-acre minimum.

[45:44] So like, how does that tie into— I think that's a good question.

[45:48] Does that make what I'm asking?

[45:51] Yeah. Yeah. And so that's something that we could address in the land use category

[45:56] description.

[45:58] So if it's something that we want, you know, I would see like,

[46:02] I can see like coming down 31 right there, that neighborhood, like,

[46:07] I guess I'm assuming that's Canterbury. Yeah. Yeah.

[46:11] And so then does that Could become nonconforming in this?

[46:15] Well, we, again, kind of in the description, you could say, like,

[46:19] kind of the existing developments that are less than 5 acres are appropriate as they

[46:24] are existing, but moving forward, we, you know,

[46:27] we would want to see less of those or limited or in certain areas.

[46:31] So we can work it into the description.

[46:34] And again, nothing in this is going to change the zoning,

[46:37] so nothing's going to make it nonconforming.

[46:40] But yeah, you don't You don't really want to identify parcels and put them in a

[46:45] future land use category that they don't fit.

[46:48] And so I think depending on where we end up is going to depend on how we want to

[46:53] describe it.

[46:54] But then if we're not changing the zoning,

[46:56] then why would this say exists until official zoning map is amended by the

[47:01] County Commission, which would—

[47:05] this agricultural preservation Oh, that's something different.

[47:10] I'm just asking, right? I'm just—

[47:11] I'm just— the Agricultural Preservation District.

[47:13] Somebody said that earlier, that it wouldn't exist after we adopt this,

[47:18] but is that— are we removing the agricultural— Well, I mean, Christy,

[47:23] you're up.

[47:24] Go ahead.

[47:24] I was asking.

[47:26] No, no, no, I'm just—

[47:27] I just want to clear up—

[47:28] I want to clear up some terminology, first of all.

[47:30] Um, so when you're talking about the growth plan,

[47:33] that's the one that you have in place that is The cities and the county put

[47:37] together.

[47:37] Yep.

[47:37] Separate plan from this land use plan.

[47:40] You do need to consider the urban growth boundaries,

[47:43] but some of the outcome of this plan could be that you're asking the county and the

[47:48] cities to revisit that. Maybe there are some areas that need to be expanded.

[47:53] Maybe there are areas that need to be contracted.

[47:56] One, the terminology thing I want to correct,

[47:58] I want to just make sure everybody understands on the growth plan map,

[48:03] you have An urban growth boundary and you have a planned growth area.

[48:07] This area around Collioca is a planned growth area, right?

[48:11] That's a growth area that has been identified to grow in the county,

[48:15] not that a city will be annexed into it.

[48:17] Yeah.

[48:18] So I just want to make sure you understand the stuff that's around Columbia,

[48:22] Spring Hill, Mount Pleasant.

[48:23] Those are urban growth boundaries where at that time those cities had projected to

[48:28] grow into.

[48:28] Gotcha.

[48:29] Counties can have areas where they say, okay, this out here is rural,

[48:33] but if we're going to have some growth, this is where we see it going.

[48:38] And that's where those planned growth areas are.

[48:41] There's 3 on your— well, there's 4, even though it says 5,

[48:45] because one of them is a PGA, but it's an expansion of Columbia's UGB.

[48:50] Um, so that, that's kind of the—

[48:52] when you're looking at where you want the growth to occur,

[48:56] Keep that in mind because you're planning for the unincorporated area, right?

[49:01] And until it is annexed, it is unincorporated.

[49:04] So having some development standards for those areas,

[49:08] if and until they become part of the city, is part of the discussion.

[49:12] And, um, so if the result of this says, you know, maybe our PGAs are too big,

[49:17] we need to pull them back,

[49:19] that would be a recommendation going into into possibly revisiting the growth plan.

[49:25] Gotcha.

[49:25] And it doesn't make— like Liz said,

[49:28] it doesn't make anything legally nonconforming because these are

[49:31] nonconforming because these are recommendations.

[49:32] So until the actual zoning on the map is changed— and we likely would not.

[49:37] I mean, you could even create a zoning district that's essentially like a—

[49:41] I think we called it legacy districts or something—

[49:44] that recognizes that density without making it legally nonconforming.

[49:49] conforming, even though the area around it may be recommended for something

[49:53] different.

[49:54] Yeah, grandfathered.

[49:55] Removing that from an option is not something that we're doing because

[50:00] I'm asking— removing whatever the ag preservation is.

[50:03] No, I mean, if you all— if part of the designation is rural,

[50:06] then the discussion is to what extent are you recommending that it be rural?

[50:11] Right now, the AP district is a voluntary district.

[50:14] So you all may want it designated as 1 to 5 on here,

[50:17] but people could go even further to 1 to 15 or whatever.

[50:20] So that should just be part of the larger conversation of what that rural area looks

[50:25] like. But I just want to make sure you all understood where those, those growth—

[50:29] there are county growth areas. And that's what, that's what those are.

[50:33] I would just, you know, if somebody wants— I just wanted to observe their property,

[50:37] that's their part to be able to do that. Is that all y'all have anywhere?

[50:41] That's all I've got.

[50:42] Thank you, sir. Is that all you got, Sam? That's all I got. All right.

[50:45] Let me just note the AP districts.

[50:47] I think 6 or 8 of those have come to the County Commission since that's been

[50:51] enacted. So that's been— You'll have several more. Yeah.

[50:54] So that's been a good thing that people have been taking advantage of that here

[50:58] have been taking advantage of that here over

[50:58] the past couple of months. So that's a good thing. You're back.

[51:01] Okay.

[51:01] You're up.

[51:04] Yeah. So kind of when we're discussing Coleoca or, you know, in any of these

[51:11] Coleoca or, you know, in any of these areas,

[51:11] But this is a good example of if we're not going to use the urban growth boundary

[51:19] and the growth boundary as kind of a guide and we take that away,

[51:24] then you have kind of a mix of large properties and then existing little

[51:31] subdivisions. But you can see it's a very kind of consistent in terms of like

[51:37] there's little pockets of residential, but most of the land is fairly large lot.

[51:45] Where that line gets drawn, that again, that's,

[51:49] that's the hard part of do we have anything like the urban growth boundary

[51:55] anything like the urban growth boundary that we

[51:56] want to use to kind of establish that line,

[52:00] or does it all just become one district like we have it now?

[52:05] So that's again where I'm struggling of how much land, or if, you know,

[52:11] should it be in the 1-acre or And where does that boundary get established?

[52:18] So, I mean, that's kind of where we're— and same thing with Mount Pleasant.

[52:25] When we look at Mount Pleasant, like, pretty much—

[52:29] I'm sorry.

[52:31] Around the jurisdiction is very large lots, you know, and so it would be,

[52:38] I think, difficult for me to go in and say like, yes,

[52:43] that should be rural residential or that should be ag without some

[52:49] direction from you all. What?

[52:51] Hit your mic there. You know,

[52:53] like what you're looking at is like a huge That one on the right.

[52:58] Oh, like this thing?

[52:58] Yeah. I don't, I don't know what that exact piece of property is,

[53:02] but I would guess it's— somebody here might know.

[53:05] I'm guessing it's an old mine, which is never going to be developed. Hopefully.

[53:10] And that's again where I need feedback from you all,

[53:14] because when we do a land use plan for a whole entire county,

[53:18] I can't look at every single parcel, you know, in the county.

[53:22] That would take 7 years.

[53:24] And so if I'm looking at it a little bit higher level,

[53:28] but I need you all to fact-check me.

[53:30] I've gotten a couple of texts so far. You left Theta off the maps, what I was told.

[53:35] I left what off the map?

[53:37] Theta, T-H-E-T-A, northeast section. It was sort of north.

[53:41] It's what? Northeast. Like right there somewhere in there.

[53:46] Oh, this one?

[53:52] Lexi, your light's up. You're up.

[53:53] My only question is, from the plan that was created 20-some years ago,

[53:59] is there any existing language or determinations,

[54:02] or rather how they determined those boundaries that we could even, like, work

[54:08] boundaries that we could even, like, work from?

[54:08] So there is an adopted urban— Turn that off.

[54:11] There is an adopted urban growth plan for Murray County that's on file with the

[54:17] state that establishes these boundaries.

[54:20] And I believe there are kind of descriptions in there of the different

[54:25] descriptions in there of the different areas,

[54:26] but I haven't looked at it in detail to know if it has that kind of background

[54:32] information of like, we're proposing to have this boundary here because of XYZ.

[54:37] And so, I mean, we can look at that,

[54:40] but I'm guessing that it probably doesn't go into that level of detail.

[54:45] Because I'm just curious on how— because going from this to an absolute blank

[54:51] going from this to an absolute blank slate,

[54:51] I get what you're saying. Like, how do you determine that?

[54:56] And I'm just curious if there was any verbiage logged from 20 years ago.

[55:01] I mean, it's 20 years ago on how that was determined.

[55:05] And obviously a lot has changed since then.

[55:08] But if there was some kind of framework on what that looks like,

[55:13] I think that would be a great starting place.

[55:16] Sam,

[55:18] is that all you

[55:23] had, Lexi?

[55:27] Yeah.

[55:27] All right, Sam, you're up.

[55:29] I want to let you get through your presentation, and I've been holding

[55:33] presentation, and I've been holding comments,

[55:33] but are we going to do this in a systematic way at some point?

[55:36] Like, Go through each region? How are we going to do this?

[55:39] So I'll hold fire, I guess, if—

[55:41] Yeah. So what I think makes the most sense is we have 4 copies of the map.

[55:46] And I think if we could just sort of gather and start looking at it and start,

[55:51] you know, just giving comments and putting them on the map, I mean,

[55:56] that's probably going to be the most helpful.

[55:59] If you all think that it's better to kind of look at it all together and we can zoom

[56:05] in and, you know, look at certain areas, we can do that too.

[56:09] But yeah, I mean, I was done with—

[56:12] I was about to turn it over to you guys to work on the map.

[56:16] Is that all you got, Sam?

[56:17] Generally, I mean, we don't have to use our imaginations a whole lot.

[56:22] Williamson County has been through this for the last 30 years, and, you know,

[56:27] it'd be nice to ask someone, well,

[56:29] what happened when you Did 1 to 5 right next to Leapers, for example, right?

[56:34] Like, we don't— there are some real-world examples we can go to to see how things

[56:39] turn out. So, all right.

[56:41] But that hasn't— Williamson was only adopted, what, a year or so ago?

[56:47] It's been several years?

[56:49] Okay.

[56:50] So there hasn't been a ton of time that that's happened, but yeah,

[56:53] we can definitely use it as an example.

[56:58] Well, Christy, you can correct me if I'm wrong,

[57:00] but a long time ago they did hike half the county in 1:1 and half 1:5, correct?

[57:04] And then they went all 1:5 here lately.

[57:06] A big chunk of the, a big chunk of half of the county was 1:5 for a long time.

[57:12] So '88, '88, maybe.

[57:13] It's actually a perfect example to see how it's going to play out long-term.

[57:18] So, all right. Uh, Mr. Perryman, your light's on.

[57:21] The only, I would echo what he just— I know you're excited.

[57:25] I would echo what Sam just said.

[57:27] If there's examples out there to look at, I think we have to.

[57:31] My only comment on the current map is it's very striking that it's all green,

[57:36] and that is of concern.

[57:37] If we have urban growth boundaries that exist with the state,

[57:41] I think we have to recognize those and consider those in some way.

[57:45] When people speak of property values,

[57:47] I do think the closer you live to the The cities.

[57:51] If you start making folks have to live in large chunks of land,

[57:54] you do decrease property value.

[57:56] If I live way out in the nether regions of the county, you may not.

[58:01] I look at the 431 corridor between 65 and 431 on the map that we were given today,

[58:06] and I don't see that ever remaining green.

[58:08] My fear is this: if we don't examine the county and designate at least some places

[58:14] that we think growth can occur,

[58:16] The 3 cities will just push outward and they push outward in big chunks.

[58:20] And I think the biggest thing I hear from people all the time is the cities are

[58:25] doing too much. When they take over, this room has little control of what happens.

[58:30] Yeah.

[58:30] And if we don't provide some places in the county and say,

[58:34] we see that life is happening in these areas and at Canterbury, for example,

[58:38] that was mentioned earlier,

[58:39] or out on John Sharp Road where we're building a lot of houses,

[58:43] That has become a county residential area that if we don't acknowledge that those

[58:48] places exist and we just leave them as green,

[58:50] then the cities very quickly come out and go, let us have that.

[58:54] And then it's 6 units per acre or it's townhomes going straight up that are 3

[58:58] stories. So my concern would just be somewhere between an overcomplicated map

[59:02] somewhere between an overcomplicated map and

[59:03] the simplistic map. We have to,

[59:04] we have to say somewhere in Murray County there can be something smaller than 5

[59:09] acres, because the reality is in the next 20 years it's going to be.

[59:13] And is it that the county controls that and has a say in it,

[59:16] or is it that the cities do?

[59:18] And I think everyone in this room would much rather see the regional planning have

[59:22] some say in that than the cities. And that's, that's just my take at this map.

[59:27] How we go about that and what we call growth areas, I don't know.

[59:30] I think that's a good point. But I think we have to look a little deeper than that.

[59:35] All right, thanks, sir.

[59:36] I don't see any other lights, so how do you want to proceed then? What is it?

[59:41] You want us to come down here and get on the maps,

[59:43] or you want somebody to get up there and point?

[59:46] I don't want anybody drawing on my walls up here, but, you know,

[59:50] if you want to point out something on the map and then we can make markings on the

[59:54] paper map or whatever, how do you want to do this?

[59:57] Sorry, I was trying to open the growth boundary plan,

[1:00:02] and it's Locking up my computer.

[1:00:04] I mean, I think it's probably, you know, because we don't have a ton of, you know,

[1:00:11] our board's not too big today.

[1:00:14] So if we could break up into kind of 2 groups or 3 groups and just kind of look

[1:00:20] groups or 3 groups and just kind of look at

[1:00:20] this and look at the areas, and I can have my laptop,

[1:00:25] and if anybody wants to pull up a certain area, I'm happy to do that.

[1:00:32] So what do you want, somebody on like, that's north side of the county,

[1:00:35] this is south side of the county, or—

[1:00:36] Yeah. And then you pick what side you want to be on? Yeah.

[1:00:39] Okay. And then for the public,

[1:00:41] we've got that map right there on that table if y'all wish to put your input on

[1:00:47] that. Dustin, I'm sorry. Have you got to go? Well, maybe.

[1:00:51] I don't want to sit here and watch y'all work or whatever, but I mean,

[1:00:55] and it's Come on up. I'll allow it. Sure, come on, come on up. I'm ready to leave.

[1:01:01] Excuse me, I just have one question. Well, hang on.

[1:01:04] I'm gonna let him speak and then we'll get to you. All right, well, go ahead.

[1:01:10] Okay, go ahead. I'm all over this county surveying. It looks like it's all

[1:01:15] surveying. It looks like it's all farmland.

[1:01:15] You're not— it's not all farmland.

[1:01:18] You got little houses everywhere, thousands of houses and acres Lots.

[1:01:22] And if you make these people— brother and sister, sister got an acre,

[1:01:27] brother got an acre, this brother now you have to get 5 acres—

[1:01:31] what you're going to be doing is what you're trying to do.

[1:01:35] I'm going to just tell you, you're trying to run everybody out of the country,

[1:01:41] get them in town. And I hate to say it,

[1:01:43] but it looks like something you see back in Nazi Germany.

[1:01:47] You want to force a people Well, hold on, we're not going—

[1:01:51] we're not going to have a spar. This is not a sparring session. Okay, thank you.

[1:01:57] All right, okay, all right. Dustin, you, uh, state your name and your district.

[1:02:02] Yeah, I mean, that's ridiculous to say Nazi Germany. Yeah, well, let's not

[1:02:07] Nazi Germany. Yeah, well, let's not debate.

[1:02:07] Let's, let's not. And you make your living as a surveyor, so obviously every day,

[1:02:13] Dustin, Parcel is more money in your pocket.

[1:02:16] Dustin.

[1:02:17] And so that's— I mean, okay. And so to say that we're trying to create an option—

[1:02:21] Dustin.

[1:02:21] We're trying to preserve farm—

[1:02:23] Dustin.

[1:02:24] I'm not addressing the group here. I know, but I'm— this is not a debate.

[1:02:28] No, I'm not. I'm just saying this is not a debate for you all. I apologize.

[1:02:33] I apologize. All right, just state your name and your district, please.

[1:02:38] Dustin Kittle, District 9. Or District 6, actually.

[1:02:41] I was speaking on behalf of District 9 last night. I'll, I'll address that last.

[1:02:47] I'll start off by saying one of the things that I think we need to be careful about

[1:02:52] and we need to evaluate on the front end is development that would be around the

[1:02:57] Duck River or any of the tributaries.

[1:03:00] That creates obviously potential contamination, environmental issues.

[1:03:04] And I'm not saying that there can't be any development, but as a lot of you know,

[1:03:10] there was an attempt to develop at the one of the former Monsanto properties,

[1:03:15] which was right on top of the Duck. They wanted to put 1,300 houses.

[1:03:19] That's just an example of something that I think kind of on the front end that we

[1:03:24] need to be mindful of because of the fact, again,

[1:03:28] we're in this alleged water crisis and we're so dependent on the Duck River that

[1:03:33] we're so dependent on the Duck River that I

[1:03:33] think that we need to take that into account.

[1:03:36] And I would say the same thing as far as with soils and things things like that.

[1:03:41] As I think Sam had mentioned, there is a lot of mining land that's in this county,

[1:03:46] and there is some former Monsanto land,

[1:03:49] and there's some ground that's not suitable for development.

[1:03:53] And so I think that that needs to be taken into account.

[1:03:57] And then also, as opposed to maybe just drawing kind of the random circles, like,

[1:04:02] I think if we looked at the factors, like, for example,

[1:04:05] And I'll take the one that we looked at last night that was in Cullioca.

[1:04:10] That road over there is about as wide as this podium.

[1:04:14] And so it's not really suitable to where you could put a subdivision.

[1:04:18] And so I think that that's one of the other things that we need to look at.

[1:04:23] I mean, we have, you know, I'll take Snow Creek Road that's beside me.

[1:04:28] It's a state road. It's a, it's a good road. It's a wide road.

[1:04:32] And it could handle more traffic than, say, East Sheepneck Road.

[1:04:36] And so I think that that's something that we need to take into account as well.

[1:04:41] The last thing I would say is like, and I know this couldn't be done by one person,

[1:04:46] but I do think we need to kind of do an audit of what we've got now as far as the

[1:04:52] land's concerned. What do we have now that's in agriculture, you know,

[1:04:56] across the board? I mean,

[1:04:58] that's something you probably could run some kind of aerial image through,

[1:05:03] like AI even. And be able to get a good idea of what is our baseline and where are

[1:05:08] we starting from on all of this. And I think that that's important.

[1:05:13] So I think that if we outline some of these factors,

[1:05:16] factors that ultimately would come into play when it goes before a planning

[1:05:21] commission, as far as like how far is this area away from emergency services and

[1:05:26] things like that, I think that all of those things.

[1:05:29] These zones would kind of create themselves off of that,

[1:05:33] and there's probably some way that somebody that's smarter than I could punch

[1:05:38] somebody that's smarter than I could punch all of

[1:05:39] that in and give you an exact which parcels meet that definition and which

[1:05:43] parcels meet that definition and which ones

[1:05:44] don't. Thank you. Okay, that said, um, I guess Sam— yeah, you're like, go ahead,

[1:05:49] Sam. One more. That brought up some great questions for me, actually.

[1:05:53] I know we're going to get to cost of community services at some point,

[1:05:58] but it's hard for me to sort of say, well,

[1:06:01] this zone needs to be here and this zone needs to be there without sort of knowing

[1:06:06] the total totality of it, right?

[1:06:08] Like, if we're going to build a lot more houses, what will it cost the community?

[1:06:14] You know, those kinds of questions. I guess for now we just put our vision down.

[1:06:19] I was just going to say, are we just trying to, like,

[1:06:22] generally This area generally today?

[1:06:25] Yeah, I mean, I'm not expecting you to say this lot yes, this lot no,

[1:06:30] but I think what would be helpful is to kind of understand if you all think that

[1:06:36] it's appropriate to again sort of use that,

[1:06:39] use the data of the land in terms of lot size,

[1:06:43] in terms of undevelopable prime farmland.

[1:06:46] We could look again at that data in the land and try and make a line based on

[1:06:52] land and try and make a line based on that.

[1:06:52] Or do we like the idea of kind of like a fuzzy 1-mile, 3-mile, 5-mile buffer?

[1:06:58] You know, kind of what makes sense in these different areas?

[1:07:02] That kind of, you know,

[1:07:04] if I have more of a direction of what you all think makes the most sense,

[1:07:10] that would help. And then the other thing is, Yes,

[1:07:14] so we have Tischler Weiss doing the financial analysis.

[1:07:18] They have gotten started on that, but their next thing is,

[1:07:22] is they're going to take the future land use map that we give them and run an

[1:07:28] analysis on kind of the cost of services and the cost of everything based on what

[1:07:34] we're proposing. And so generally, we either give them 2 different, like,

[1:07:40] development scenarios, or we'd give them sort of like the existing and the

[1:07:45] sort of like the existing and the proposed.

[1:07:46] Right.

[1:07:47] So if there's kind of like if we almost wanted to get rid of the orange but have,

[1:07:53] you know, the yellow kind of encompass the yellow and the orange,

[1:07:58] so we'd have a lot more 1-acre parcels, you know,

[1:08:02] have them do the analysis kind of on that sort of scenario versus this scenario,

[1:08:08] you know, we can do that.

[1:08:10] If there's kind of, again,

[1:08:12] sort of a couple different options of what you all think makes sense.

[1:08:17] We don't have to have all the answers today.

[1:08:20] All right, Commissioner Strahan, your light was on. Thank you, Chair.

[1:08:25] I'm a bit overwhelmed with this whole thing. I don't know— I'll speak for

[1:08:31] thing. I don't know— I'll speak for myself.

[1:08:31] I don't know all the county roads.

[1:08:34] I don't know the areas where all the subdivisions are.

[1:08:38] I've lived here, what, 30 years? Murray County is huge.

[1:08:42] I think it's a bad idea for us to split up and 2 or 3 go do Culebra,

[1:08:47] 2 or 3 go do something else, and a couple of us do Columbia.

[1:08:52] I think collectively we may be able to do this,

[1:08:56] but I think we need to concentrate on maybe on a particular area first.

[1:09:01] Learn how we work this process, understand the map,

[1:09:05] and then migrate out into some of the other areas rather than somebody—

[1:09:10] 2 guys come do Columbia, 2 people do Santa Fe,

[1:09:14] and then we don't even have the same vocabulary,

[1:09:18] nor do we have the same experiences in those particular areas.

[1:09:22] You can give me an area and I wouldn't know what to do with it.

[1:09:27] I'm a county commissioner. I'm not a zoning planner.

[1:09:31] I think that's actually a good idea because out of this room you've got a

[1:09:37] because out of this room you've got a piece of

[1:09:37] everything and you can ask a question and somebody that's from Coleo can say yes,

[1:09:43] somebody that's from Theda can say that. So perhaps we should just use the big map.

[1:09:50] We can do that.

[1:09:50] And then, you know, if we want to designate somebody to write or you're

[1:09:55] designate somebody to write or you're going to

[1:09:56] take notes, I guess you don't have to have anything written on these maps.

[1:10:01] But let me remind everybody too, if I could please, and for my sake,

[1:10:06] There's not such a thing as a dumb question.

[1:10:09] This group is not a planning commission.

[1:10:12] This group does not have all the experience in the world to put this thing

[1:10:17] experience in the world to put this thing together.

[1:10:17] This group represents those people out there, period, in some form,

[1:10:22] whether it be educational or whether it be political or whatever else.

[1:10:27] Turn your light on. You got to— Tell us, like, hey, 412 to— north of 412,

[1:10:32] east of 31.

[1:10:33] Bingo.

[1:10:33] I mean, yeah, and then we could just start, and then south of 412 to 50,

[1:10:38] and then 50 to 31, and then 31 to Mount Pleasant.

[1:10:41] And then maybe, maybe that makes the most sense.

[1:10:45] You know, if we just kind of zoom in and— yeah,

[1:10:48] I can draw polygons on here that again sort of just establish the

[1:10:53] beginning conversation.

[1:10:55] Who knows? I mean, I think it would probably make the most sense to start in

[1:11:00] probably make the most sense to start in the

[1:11:00] north side where probably most of the growth would be or has been.

[1:11:04] So 31, 65, northeast side.

[1:11:06] Start with the northeast, then go southeast, then go southwest, and then

[1:11:10] southeast, then go southwest, and then northwest.

[1:11:11] Like coming down 431 from June Lake's going to grow in the next 20 years. Okay.

[1:11:16] I've actually had a county commissioner that's asked to speak,

[1:11:20] so I'm going to let Commissioner Sumner come on up to the podium.

[1:11:24] Identify yourself for the record and then— Uh,

[1:11:27] at like 10:30 at night the way this is going, so that's kind of— that's,

[1:11:31] that's kind of what I'm— Scott asked and so I'll let him.

[1:11:35] That's kind of what I'm hitting at here. Uh, Scott Sumner, District 5.

[1:11:39] Uh, I think Mr. Kittle brought up some great points about, uh,

[1:11:43] potentially looking at criteria.

[1:11:45] Uh, I think y'all have had some great points too, Mr. Perryman and Mr. Kennedy.

[1:11:50] About the criteria that you should look at for these types of things.

[1:11:55] And maybe you should give the criteria to the consultant instead of you guys, like,

[1:12:00] pinpointing, you know, on a map where you think things should go.

[1:12:04] But give the consultant some criteria, you know,

[1:12:07] some guidelines about what you want to see.

[1:12:10] Like, like, you've got collector roads, you've got arterial roads, you've got the—

[1:12:15] Inter—

[1:12:16] I-65, you've got the Duck River You got the tributaries of the Duck River, uh,

[1:12:21] and you— I mean, this county has,

[1:12:23] has certain types of road classifications too where you can kind of delineate what

[1:12:29] those road links are potentially too using GIS.

[1:12:32] So what I would suggest you guys do is, I mean, to save you some time tonight,

[1:12:37] is to give the consultant some criteria, take it back,

[1:12:41] and they can take it back and create a map.

[1:12:44] Okay.

[1:12:45] Potentially a map, a better map than what's here tonight,

[1:12:48] something that's more conducive to what your thoughts are.

[1:12:51] But take that back and instead of having to go through it, you know,

[1:12:54] section at a time tonight,

[1:12:56] just have that done back at her office once you guys give her the criteria.

[1:12:59] That's my suggestion. Or you're going to be here kind of all night.

[1:13:03] Well, I don't disagree with that.

[1:13:05] But what I was going to say also is that, you know,

[1:13:07] as much as I hate saying the word more meetings,

[1:13:10] we could do a quadrant tonight and then we don't have to have the consultant I think

[1:13:14] we're going to have to do another quadrant here.

[1:13:17] We can do— have another meeting and do another quadrant another night,

[1:13:21] another quadrant another night.

[1:13:22] I do like what he says,

[1:13:23] but what I would say to that is that we've already collected this data.

[1:13:27] The consultant's been given all this stuff, and this is the map we got, you

[1:13:31] stuff, and this is the map we got, you know,

[1:13:31] based on from the public input, because this is—

[1:13:34] this was for the public and all that, and this is—

[1:13:36] this is the map that came out with. So I don't know.

[1:13:39] I thought it seems like we've already set the criteria, and—

[1:13:42] and I guess we can try to do it again, but whatever this—

[1:13:45] the will of this committee is and— and— I think that's a good point.

[1:13:49] Y'all tell me that. You got a couple options.

[1:13:51] Like I said, we can do what Scott said, give criteria to the consultant,

[1:13:55] or we can sit here and do the northeast quadrant of the county and then come back

[1:13:59] again later without her here.

[1:14:01] We don't have to have her have to— you know, we can do the southeast quadrant.

[1:14:05] What's the will of the committee?

[1:14:07] Uh, uh, Sam— or no, I'm sorry, Eric Perryman, you were first. Go ahead.

[1:14:10] A question first and then, and then just a comment.

[1:14:13] The map That you had that you said you showed last week,

[1:14:16] that you said you went too far on.

[1:14:18] How many people were at Battle Creek High School that determined you went too far

[1:14:22] with that map?

[1:14:23] Like 10.

[1:14:26] So out of about 120,000 people, 10.

[1:14:28] So, so my question would be this,

[1:14:30] somewhere between the map that we were given today—

[1:14:33] I'm not saying I love that map that you That you said you went too far on,

[1:14:38] but somewhere between that map, which is what you guys are paid to develop,

[1:14:42] and the map we were given today, there has to be a happy medium somewhere.

[1:14:47] Um, I would love to have access to that map and time to look at it,

[1:14:51] and then I would love for us to have criteria so that when we talk,

[1:14:55] we're not just walking up here uninformed and saying, hey, I, you know,

[1:15:00] I've been out here, this is really changing, and this— we need—

[1:15:04] Yeah.

[1:15:04] I think we need more information and more time as a group to have some criteria to

[1:15:09] look at what we were talking about.

[1:15:11] But I would love to have that map, whether I agree with it or not,

[1:15:15] because that is what you guys are paid to develop.

[1:15:18] And somewhere between that and then where we are now,

[1:15:21] there has to be somewhere that we, that we know we, we have to land.

[1:15:26] So that, that would be my only recommendation.

[1:15:28] I think we need some,

[1:15:30] some clear guidelines on what we're doing before we start changing anything on

[1:15:34] anybody's All right, Sam, your light's on, sir. I like both ideas.

[1:15:38] I do think it would be helpful just to go through one block together, just to—

[1:15:43] I want to hear what other people's questions are,

[1:15:46] kind of go through the process of evaluating one section just to learn how

[1:15:50] evaluating one section just to learn how you would

[1:15:51] look at it. All right, well, let me ask you this.

[1:15:54] Is the northeast the best block for that?

[1:15:56] Because it's already pretty much a city,

[1:15:59] or do we want to go real more rural with it? Y'all pick one.

[1:16:02] I think that corridor out there, that 431 corridor in the northeast,

[1:16:06] is a good place to start. Okay, you do want to start with that one. Okay.

[1:16:11] Because you've got Firefly out there,

[1:16:13] you have things that are happening that don't match it already.

[1:16:17] So how do we deal with things that are— okay, that already don't match?

[1:16:21] All right, let's proceed then. Go ahead, Sam.

[1:16:24] My first thought in my head is like, well, yeah, let them have it.

[1:16:28] It's already developed, so just let it go.

[1:16:30] But I know farmers in that green island who are gonna, you know,

[1:16:34] people who are gonna want to leave it green, right?

[1:16:37] So that's my first conundrum, right?

[1:16:39] So just, just there you go, throw that out there.

[1:16:42] So this is again the, the map from last week, and I will email all the maps,

[1:16:49] and I could do further, you know, I'll get you guys all that.

[1:16:55] So a lot of that area is within Spring Hill and Columbia's urban growth boundary.

[1:17:02] And it— I'm not sure if this line, like, follows—

[1:17:07] it doesn't look like it follows a road, but it might.

[1:17:11] But I mean, it kind of establishes a cutoff point.

[1:17:16] And so maybe that's a good place to start of, like,

[1:17:21] Is this northern area appropriate for 1-acre lots?

[1:17:25] Again, we can kind of ignore the orange.

[1:17:29] Turn your light on. So, Sam, turn your light on.

[1:17:33] I would— that would be my thought, would be generally speaking.

[1:17:37] Now we can dive into each little property, but I mean,

[1:17:42] you can see west of Clara Mathis there, you know, is already all neighborhoods.

[1:17:48] And so, you know, and again, you know,

[1:17:51] I think that what we've talked about multiple times is the city just start

[1:17:56] multiple times is the city just start annexing

[1:17:57] these places. And so if you don't give anybody room to develop,

[1:18:02] then you are going to open that up for more annexation, which I— You know,

[1:18:08] whatever everybody wants is gonna— I mean, that's just what they're going to do.

[1:18:14] Um, so I, I, I understand what you're saying, Sam.

[1:18:18] I think like, and maybe you go through some of that and say, well, these, you

[1:18:24] some of that and say, well, these, you know,

[1:18:24] east of 431s, you know what I mean?

[1:18:28] I don't know.

[1:18:28] I don't know. I'm just giving, giving ideas.

[1:18:31] Reasonable me.

[1:18:33] Debbie, hang on. We gotta— we can't have too many lights on at once.

[1:18:37] Turn your light on. We'll call on you. Deborah, go ahead.

[1:18:42] I'm just asking— sorry,

[1:18:43] just asking her to zoom in on that if that's where we're focusing.

[1:18:48] So thank you.

[1:18:49] Yeah, I mean, and this is a good kind of place to just sort of discuss

[1:18:57] theoretically. You know, we have the cities in close proximity.

[1:19:04] We have a lot of big lot land. Mixed with existing developments.

[1:19:11] And so, you know, all of this area kind of west of 65, you know,

[1:19:19] does it— does it make sense to you all to show that as kind of that

[1:19:26] 1-acre smaller, you know, still large lot but smaller lot development?

[1:19:34] Or to try and kind of put all of these larger lots in sort of that

[1:19:42] holding of 5-acre minimums.

[1:19:45] Eric, what's the school capacity up there?

[1:19:47] You're lower on the north side than you are anywhere,

[1:19:51] and as we've started this year,

[1:19:53] the only place we've truly seen growth has been up there.

[1:19:57] Um, we've actually seen some decreasing numbers across the rest of the county,

[1:20:03] but in that section, Bear Creek 31,

[1:20:05] that corridor is the only place that we've seen true growth in numbers.

[1:20:10] And it's elementary growth, middle school and elementary growth.

[1:20:14] So it's young growth. Okay. Anybody else? Lots of thoughts.

[1:20:18] Um, Again, I'm back on the fiscal thing,

[1:20:21] but I think that was a large part of why Williamson County went on and did 1 to 5

[1:20:26] across the board was because of fiscal concerns.

[1:20:30] So we may say we want more houses somewhere and then figure out we can't

[1:20:35] somewhere and then figure out we can't afford it

[1:20:35] later. But, um, the Duck River Yanalli Wildlife Area is at the southeast part of

[1:20:41] that quadrant, right? I would think we would want buffer, you know.

[1:20:45] Yeah, like all of this down.

[1:20:47] But on that, okay, it is.

[1:20:49] And I had one more thought,

[1:20:51] but I'll leave it alone until I come up with it.

[1:20:55] Yeah, so it seems like with the proposed map, you know,

[1:21:01] this area is kind of in question, and then, you know,

[1:21:07] this sort of central area feel like the two kind of maybe they

[1:21:13] should be yellow.

[1:21:16] That central area right there, just from a busing,

[1:21:19] not traveling those roads with buses.

[1:21:22] Um, Greens Mill and the development off of Greens Mill,

[1:21:25] that's the city has pushed all the way to Double Branch.

[1:21:29] Double Branch is not very far from Big Oak Lake.

[1:21:32] I mean, it looks like a large area there. John Sharp's in that area.

[1:21:37] Um, that's an area that, that we're seeing growth in anyway.

[1:21:41] Uh, if you were looking at targeted areas where that's— that, that green area is—

[1:21:47] that, that yellow is pushing out into it.

[1:21:50] So, so I see that from what we're dealing with is that those developments are

[1:21:55] pushing in that way.

[1:21:56] Um, and I don't know how we go through every section of the, the map,

[1:22:01] but that section I do—

[1:22:02] I do think that yellow probably encroaches further into that center section than

[1:22:08] than it's showing right there. Anybody else?

[1:22:11] One simple question, and Sam brought this up.

[1:22:14] Is there a way, whether it's Yanalli— the state owns thousands of acres,

[1:22:19] controls thousands of acres out of 50.

[1:22:22] Well, I don't know that we really need to waste time coloring those one way or the

[1:22:27] other. I don't know that they're up for development.

[1:22:31] Uh, and that's in that north, that corridor, that northeast corridor,

[1:22:35] and then probably your central corridor down toward Culeoaka.

[1:22:40] They're not really— it's thousands of acres out there.

[1:22:43] Same thing, maybe out towards Monsanto with some of that land.

[1:22:48] It's really not up for development at all.

[1:22:50] So it doesn't really matter what color it is.

[1:22:53] I don't know if there's a way to highlight it a different color.

[1:22:58] No, my mind was though,

[1:22:59] you might have less dense stuff as you get closer to the river. Yeah. Anybody else?

[1:23:05] Hit your light so we can— y'all, I know. Okay.

[1:23:08] We just, we can only have 3 mics on at a time and we gotta be able to record the

[1:23:14] meeting and let the public hear.

[1:23:16] So you gotta give me time to get your mic turned on. I gotcha.

[1:23:20] Uh, I think it would be good to see some of those, you know,

[1:23:24] areas on the map that are just, you know, like some,

[1:23:28] some of this older mined land that nobody wants to see developed.

[1:23:32] I mean, You know, I know there's been questions of it since I've been here for

[1:23:38] questions of it since I've been here for 20

[1:23:38] years. You know, there's always somebody wanting to bring 1,000 homes to Monsanto

[1:23:43] or, you know, something going on at Arrow Lake.

[1:23:47] You know, if, if some of that was notated on this future land use to like, hey,

[1:23:52] we don't— I don't know that there's a classification that you want to put on it

[1:23:57] classification that you want to put on it or

[1:23:58] what, but like, you know,

[1:23:59] areas that just in general shouldn't be or don't need to be developed.

[1:24:04] I mean, does that make sense?

[1:24:06] And like Yanalli, I mean, it's, you know, it's a huge area.

[1:24:10] You haven't spoke all night. Go for it.

[1:24:13] So I had the same thought that That Sam just so eloquently said.

[1:24:17] We've got these properties, and it's been mentioned here tonight,

[1:24:22] the large development on the Monsanto property,

[1:24:25] that I live out that way and know a lot of people out that way.

[1:24:29] They don't want that out in Santa Fe.

[1:24:32] And again, I don't know what that looks like,

[1:24:35] but I would like to see somehow those properties maybe have their own

[1:24:39] properties maybe have their own designation to

[1:24:40] where we don't get ourselves in a situation where we've got big money coming

[1:24:46] situation where we've got big money coming at us

[1:24:46] hot. And as some of you know, there's, there's,

[1:24:49] there's a long story with some of these properties that cost the county money

[1:24:54] perpetually, and we just weren't prepared when these people came down the road.

[1:25:00] Anybody else? Do what? Oh, uh, Sam, is that you? Is that your light?

[1:25:05] Sorry, I got This is more of a process question, again, kind of similar to UGB's,

[1:25:10] but we keep talking about how we should leave areas for development to stop city

[1:25:16] annexation. And I get the concept and I generally believe it,

[1:25:20] but there's another part of me that's like,

[1:25:23] we need to vision this county how we actually want it.

[1:25:26] Don't make space for developers if we don't want them there,

[1:25:30] and then go get state law changed.

[1:25:33] Like, and I don't know So I guess from a planning perspective,

[1:25:37] I think we paint the vision how we want it and then try to make it happen instead of

[1:25:43] leaving space for development that we don't actually want or can afford.

[1:25:48] So, all right, Dustin, you raised your hand.

[1:25:51] I'm going to allow it because, I mean,

[1:25:53] I think this is the kind of meeting that the public wanted earlier.

[1:25:58] And so, um, talking about that there's a lot more development out there,

[1:26:03] not all that development out there that's going on is legal either.

[1:26:07] It didn't— a lot of that didn't go before the Planning Commission and should have.

[1:26:13] So I don't want, like,

[1:26:15] that all to get lumped in as being growth until we absolutely know that all of that

[1:26:20] was done properly, which kind of brings to the next point, which is—

[1:26:25] and this echoing what Sam just said— I think it's a loser argument to say, hey,

[1:26:30] we've got to make room for developers or the city is going to annex.

[1:26:35] I mean, that's I said, let's figure out what do we want the county to be.

[1:26:40] And quite honestly, we should have been fighting these annexations.

[1:26:45] I mean, and we should be going forward.

[1:26:47] And I mean, you look at the one in Mount Pleasant that was stopped last year,

[1:26:53] that should have been happening over and over again.

[1:26:56] And we wouldn't be in this position.

[1:26:59] But—

[1:27:01] I don't think that it's the right move to say that we're going to—

[1:27:05] just because we're afraid that the city is going to do something wrong,

[1:27:10] that we're going to try to fill that void so that we can control that process.

[1:27:15] I think that's the wrong way to look at it.

[1:27:18] I think we need to figure out what is the collective vision for everybody that lives

[1:27:24] here, and whatever that is,

[1:27:26] let's go towards that without trying to worry about what everybody else is doing.

[1:27:32] And then let's try to fight off all these other people that are infringing on how we

[1:27:37] want the vision to be. And that is very doable if we'll just do it.

[1:27:42] And the last thing is, I think we need some maps that have the infrastructure,

[1:27:47] because I was thinking Christy liked the infrastructure trigger before it would go

[1:27:53] before Planning Commission.

[1:27:55] So if we had a map that showed where all the existing water lines and electrical

[1:28:00] service already was.

[1:28:02] And I know that we probably could get that for the water lines,

[1:28:06] but I think that's like really important because there's some areas that already

[1:28:11] because there's some areas that already has

[1:28:12] the infrastructure in place that they could absorb a development.

[1:28:16] And then there's some to where you would have to add infrastructure.

[1:28:21] Well, if they have to add infrastructure,

[1:28:24] that's a trigger to where it would at least go back before the County Planning

[1:28:29] Commission so that we have a say-so in it. So.

[1:28:32] So that's like another one of those factors as far as an overlay that could be

[1:28:37] factors as far as an overlay that could be put

[1:28:38] on one of these maps to show where is our existing infrastructure now where it

[1:28:43] wouldn't have to be added. And that's it.

[1:28:46] And I'll let y'all fight over the rest of it.

[1:28:49] Theresa, did you want to say something?

[1:28:52] I just want to echo Dustin's comments on annexation.

[1:28:55] There is clear— and he can speak to this obviously better than I can,

[1:29:00] but there's Clear precedent that if cities are annexing for the sole purpose of tax

[1:29:05] revenue, it's not— it will not stand up.

[1:29:08] It has to be challenged, but it won't stand up.

[1:29:11] They can annex to improve services like water.

[1:29:15] Well, that's obviously not going to be a reason when the City of Columbia has

[1:29:20] declared an existential water crisis. So there's really no basis for annexation.

[1:29:25] We should create the vision we want for this county. Diversified zoning is an

[1:29:31] this county. Diversified zoning is an idea.

[1:29:31] 15 acres next to the Duck River, 10 acres, 5 acres, 1 acre— is that difficult?

[1:29:36] Yes, that's not easy, but it brings intuition to what we're trying to achieve,

[1:29:42] the vision we have for the county. And lastly, I will just say data.

[1:29:46] We can't make any of these decisions without data.

[1:29:50] None of these decisions are— we need to know the roads, the infrastructure.

[1:29:55] We need to know the economic impact. Subdivisions cost more money.

[1:29:59] Subdivisions suck money out of the county.

[1:30:02] Farmland puts money back into the economy.

[1:30:05] Thank you.

[1:30:06] We need to know these things. We cannot make these decisions without data.

[1:30:11] So I just offer that up as things to think about. Thank you.

[1:30:15] Well, all right, I'm going to allow it. Chris, come on up. He was first.

[1:30:19] Chris was first. Real quick, just, uh, Chris Grambling, District 9.

[1:30:24] I'm text— I've been talking with Pater all day and texting with him.

[1:30:28] He, he agrees with this, that we need data,

[1:30:31] we need to be working from the updated maps, and I know a lot of people respect

[1:30:36] maps, and I know a lot of people respect him,

[1:30:36] so I just wanted to pass his voice on here. Thank you.

[1:30:39] Thank you for the second chance here.

[1:30:42] Some things on the maps that I did want to address,

[1:30:45] because geography is very important here in Murray County.

[1:30:49] If you are over here on the I-65 side and you go that direction off to the east,

[1:30:54] you've got almost solid rock all the way over there to Lewisburg.

[1:30:58] Okay, it is extremely difficult to build, dig water lines, do anything over there.

[1:31:03] It limits what you're going to be able to do.

[1:31:06] When you come over the other direction and go up Highway 50, that was Monsanto land.

[1:31:11] There's a map I gave you guys that you can look at and follow where all the

[1:31:16] limestone is, and it has the detail of where those phosphate mines were.

[1:31:20] Those areas— But not to be in buildings.

[1:31:23] Like we've mentioned before,

[1:31:25] are probably not suitable for any kind of Real good development.

[1:31:29] I— when I'm looking at land with people,

[1:31:31] I avoid those spots because I know it's going to be a problem.

[1:31:35] When you go up towards Santa Fe, it's hills.

[1:31:38] Now, you're not going to have a developer come into the area and go up those hills

[1:31:43] and try to put in 30, 40 homes.

[1:31:45] At best, you're going to get one house on maybe 5 to 10 acres. At best.

[1:31:50] You might be able to squeeze in a smaller lot down in the lower section or

[1:31:54] something, but it is going to be very difficult.

[1:31:57] So I really want you guys to be thinking about the geography with this plan because

[1:32:03] it does factor in significantly. Floodplains, I think, need a buffer.

[1:32:07] You need to have some sort of a buffer to protect them.

[1:32:10] I completely agree with the Duck River comments.

[1:32:13] It is one of our— it's our most important resource that we have right here,

[1:32:18] the water. So we need to protect that and the water sources.

[1:32:22] I don't think you do a lot minimum around those, though. I think you do a distance.

[1:32:27] You keep people a certain distance away,

[1:32:30] and then you allow the configuration of the lots to kind of happen the way that

[1:32:35] the lots to kind of happen the way that they

[1:32:35] can, with all respect to the— excuse me— the natural geography of it.

[1:32:39] The other thing is, I don't know how much you guys are aware of septic and soil

[1:32:44] testing and those kind of things,

[1:32:46] but that area over to the east is almost unperkable in a lot of those spots.

[1:32:51] So you'll have to have city sewer in order to create development,

[1:32:55] or something like a step system, which we're not really wanting to do here. Okay?

[1:33:00] So we're avoiding the step systems, but over here on this side,

[1:33:04] you're not going to be able to get a lot of septic systems in.

[1:33:08] So at the very minimum, you've got to have a 1-acre lot for a septic system.

[1:33:13] If you expand that out,

[1:33:15] you're going to naturally end up with a larger lot in order to find a suitable

[1:33:20] septic area. So there's a ton of factors in there.

[1:33:23] If at any time anybody needs to talk to me about it,

[1:33:26] my phone number's on that packet I sent over there.

[1:33:29] I'm more than happy to offer anything I know. Okay. All right.

[1:33:33] I don't— okay, I do have a light. Uh, yeah, you had to spoke all night, Donna.

[1:33:38] Is it Dawn?

[1:33:39] Dawn.

[1:33:39] Dawn. I'm sorry. Go ahead, Dawn.

[1:33:41] Just a couple things.

[1:33:42] So everything that's been said about the river, I completely agree with.

[1:33:47] So I run a business on the river. I watch river levels daily.

[1:33:51] And I can tell you, in the last 10 years, the river rises more quickly—

[1:33:55] and I'm at mile 156 on the Duck— the river rises more quickly than it used to,

[1:34:01] and it's from development in Spring Hill and all of that pouring into Flat Creek.

[1:34:06] It comes in between gauges, between the Milltown gauge and the Pottsville gauge.

[1:34:11] But I see this. I can't prove it scientifically.

[1:34:14] It's all anecdotal, but I see this happening from loss of permeable surface

[1:34:19] happening from loss of permeable surface in the

[1:34:20] Spring Hill area. We muddy up more quickly. We rise more quickly.

[1:34:24] And the gentleman that just spoke about septic,

[1:34:27] if you spend any time walking the woods or on the river or any of the properties

[1:34:32] around 431 Sowell Mill and out that direction,

[1:34:35] you can walk acres of land and never touch ground.

[1:34:39] You're going from one rock slab to the next.

[1:34:42] Some of the land size or the plot sizes would have to be a very organic approach

[1:34:47] because you simply cannot build. You can't get septic, you can't dig a well.

[1:34:52] And that was it for me.

[1:34:54] All right. Sam, is that you? Question for you and Mr. Townsend.

[1:34:58] What would you recommend we do in that corner then if It's all rocks,

[1:35:03] just out of curiosity.

[1:35:05] Personally, I think—

[1:35:06] I don't think you can judge what each lot is going to be without knowing the ground

[1:35:13] conditions. I think it's going to be extremely hard to designate this has to be

[1:35:19] extremely hard to designate this has to be 1

[1:35:19] acre, this has to be 5 acres on that.

[1:35:21] Like, like she just mentioned a second ago, it's more organic.

[1:35:26] You've got the rock there.

[1:35:28] You, you, I mean, my own property, I'm on the north side of Columbia, and I can go—

[1:35:34] gosh, we dug a 1,000-foot water line in, hit rock in one place,

[1:35:39] but the whole house site was rock. We've got a pile of rock back behind us.

[1:35:44] It is everywhere. And you can walk 20 feet over on the same lot and then hit rock,

[1:35:51] and then 5 feet over from that, you've got a perfect spot.

[1:35:55] You just don't know what's under the surface.

[1:35:58] Okay.

[1:35:58] the soil until you actually start digging.

[1:36:01] And that's why we use soil people who come out, soil scientists,

[1:36:05] to come out and do those perk tests and everything.

[1:36:09] So flexibility is probably what you actually need,

[1:36:12] some sort of flexibility in that lot size, whether it be 1 to 5 acres, or, you know,

[1:36:18] like a range or something like that.

[1:36:20] Or if you have some way to offset,

[1:36:22] maybe you've got a 1-acre lot here and But it's offset with 2 or 3 other acres of

[1:36:28] woods and natural kind of terrain.

[1:36:30] So, I mean, there's options there,

[1:36:32] but I don't think it's possible to designate this can be this amount right

[1:36:37] designate this can be this amount right here.

[1:36:37] One clarification. If it was 1 acre and you couldn't build on 1 acre,

[1:36:42] would you need a 1 to 5 designation or something like that?

[1:36:46] Because if you couldn't build on 1, you might need 3, to build.

[1:36:50] You might need 2, you might need 5, but you're not saying you have to have 5.

[1:36:55] Because again, if it's organic,

[1:36:57] you may have a cluster where you have little 1-acre lots that you could build

[1:37:02] multiple houses, and then you may have 30 acres you can't.

[1:37:06] So I, I think that we can, we can get into the weeds on everything like that,

[1:37:11] but if we're looking at the totality and the generality of it, Where do we land?

[1:37:16] Do we say you have to have 5,

[1:37:18] or do we say if you have 1 but it takes 4 to get your water and your,

[1:37:23] and your septic, then 4 is it? So I don't know where we're going.

[1:37:27] It's great conversation. Where does it go?

[1:37:30] And I think that's the, the conversation around the area, though.

[1:37:34] And I think if we go from every area, we're going to have that same

[1:37:39] we're going to have that same conversation,

[1:37:40] is where do you land within that? I agree.

[1:37:42] I got— are you able to put together the GIS layers that we've been talking about

[1:37:48] with the map, with water lines and existing services and, you know,

[1:37:52] school locations and all that kind of stuff with what you've got?

[1:37:56] I need to verify with my coworker who does all the GIS what we have,

[1:38:01] but I believe we have a lot of that information.

[1:38:05] I don't know how detailed, like, the utility information and stuff we have is,

[1:38:11] but I can double-check with Max and, and get back with you guys on that,

[1:38:16] of kind of what we have. I know for sure—

[1:38:19] County GIS can do it with our county.

[1:38:22] I mean, and if somebody has it, we'll take it.

[1:38:24] Well, I'm asking— no, I'm asking Scott, with our—

[1:38:28] I know you do GIS for another county, but do you— how—

[1:38:32] what layers do we have in Murray that you know of?

[1:38:36] Right, okay, so what everything I've heard tonight is that this isn't going to take

[1:38:42] 6 months. It's going to take a lot more than 6 months.

[1:38:46] Okay, anybody else this evening want to speak?

[1:38:49] And while we're still up here on the northeast, you know, Mr.

[1:38:54] Perryman is correct, a lot of good discussion, but where are we?

[1:38:59] Yes, ma'am, go ahead.

[1:39:00] So what I think, you know, again, this has been a really interesting conversation,

[1:39:06] and I think what I'm getting from it is You know,

[1:39:09] if we can sort of identify these areas where you're not sure what to do with

[1:39:15] where you're not sure what to do with them,

[1:39:15] those can be the areas that I dig into the details of the lots.

[1:39:19] Like, again, we can't do an in-depth per-lot analysis of every lot of the

[1:39:24] per-lot analysis of every lot of the county,

[1:39:25] but we don't need to do that either.

[1:39:27] You know, we can kind of focus on some of these areas and,

[1:39:31] and then kind of have that data and build it off of that.

[1:39:35] Okay.

[1:39:37] And also, yeah, the densities in the future land use categories would be

[1:39:42] future land use categories would be established

[1:39:42] like recommended minimums.

[1:39:44] And so that 1-acre would be that minimum threshold,

[1:39:47] that 5-acre would be that minimum threshold.

[1:39:50] So like nothing in this would say like you couldn't have a 50-acre farm in rural

[1:39:56] residential. Like that's all, you know, agriculture and farming, conservation

[1:40:01] agriculture and farming, conservation lands,

[1:40:01] all of those fall within those appropriate uses under rural residential.

[1:40:06] Okay.

[1:40:06] How we describe that, and again,

[1:40:08] we can describe these land use categories however you want.

[1:40:13] So we don't have to say minimum lot size 1 acre.

[1:40:16] We could say, you know, no development under— I don't know.

[1:40:20] Well, I mean, we can think about, like, again, how to, you know,

[1:40:25] how to set up those descriptions.

[1:40:27] So if we need to be more flexible with them, we can do that. Okay.

[1:40:33] So can we get her a list of the layers that we want?

[1:40:37] And, you know, we may have 5 different maps to look at, but that's—

[1:40:41] we have 5 different maps to look at.

[1:40:44] Like, for me, historically, I want to make absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt,

[1:40:49] sure that cemeteries are preserved.

[1:40:51] I've heard a lot of horror stories here recently on, you know,

[1:40:55] cemeteries having stones knocked over.

[1:40:58] Yeah.

[1:40:58] The county south of here where a guy owns some land and his family cemetery

[1:41:03] completely mowed over, you know.

[1:41:05] So that would be like a layer that I would want to see.

[1:41:08] We want to see the water layers and things like that.

[1:41:11] So I guess we need to, you know,

[1:41:13] come up with a list on what layers it is we want to see.

[1:41:16] And, you know, if somebody particularly says, okay,

[1:41:19] the northeast quadrant of the county It's all rocks, you know.

[1:41:23] What are we going to do with that? You know, what's that going to be?

[1:41:27] Um, you know, Santa Fe, the hills, what's that going to be? They're exactly right.

[1:41:31] Like I said, good discussion tonight, but I guess we need to work on getting those,

[1:41:36] those maps and those layers so that we can see that.

[1:41:39] And it looks like we got more meetings coming up, guys. Anybody else this

[1:41:43] coming up, guys. Anybody else this evening?

[1:41:44] I mean, where, where are we going tonight? What else we want?

[1:41:47] National Grounds.

[1:41:49] I'm sorry? Commissioner Grooms. Yes, sir.

[1:41:53] County Commission Chairman Grooms just got back from fishing in Alaska. Yeah.

[1:41:59] I think one thing you had to do— you mentioned it—

[1:42:03] but there's a lot of land that's old company land that we don't want nobody

[1:42:09] company land that we don't want nobody building

[1:42:10] on. There's a lot of it around Mount Pleasant. So you need to find those areas.

[1:42:16] They need to be set aside to where, you know, hey, we don't— this is—

[1:42:22] there's no building here because of what was here before.

[1:42:26] I mean, I know all of that land has been mitigated, but there's still stuff there.

[1:42:33] It's the big chunk of land right there that you see if you go back to Mount

[1:42:39] Pleasant.

[1:42:40] Yes.

[1:42:40] I think that's pretty— that is Old company land, or what were the— Stauffer?

[1:42:47] It's not—

[1:42:48] it wasn't Stauffer. I think it was Mobile at the time. Stauffer's on the other side.

[1:42:53] Okay. So there's— it's a lot of stuff out there that you need to find out where it

[1:42:59] is.

[1:42:59] Um, like non-environmentally able?

[1:43:03] Yes, yes, yes.

[1:43:05] Yeah, I don't—

[1:43:06] Uh, you also have Other businesses that have land that doesn't need to be built on

[1:43:12] either. So, but you need to find those areas for sure. All right.

[1:43:16] So what I would encourage everybody on the committee then is if you've got a map

[1:43:21] layer that you want to see or concerned with,

[1:43:24] email that to Robert and let's start finding these maps and doing that.

[1:43:28] And, you know, if we got to bring in another projector and show it on the wall.

[1:43:33] Actually, yeah, we can split screen a little bit.

[1:43:36] We, you know, we'll come up with something.

[1:43:39] Yeah, we would have to get— well, we can, we can figure out—

[1:43:43] we can get Bill Wells and technology involved. Yeah, okay. Anybody else?

[1:43:48] I have a light. Randy, come on. Tell us your name and your district.

[1:43:52] You hadn't spoken. Randy Notley, District 8.

[1:43:55] I just wanted to point out, since we were looking at the northeast— Randy,

[1:43:59] pull that mic up a little bit and talk into the mic.

[1:44:03] Northeast quadrant here, since we're looking at that,

[1:44:06] there is a number of developments going on already.

[1:44:09] I don't think any of them are complete yet on the west side of 431 between Keidron

[1:44:15] and Flat Creek. And last night at the Planning Commission, they approved another

[1:44:20] Planning Commission, they approved another 82,

[1:44:20] I believe, house project up there. And it's showing it all green there right now.

[1:44:25] And that's— that by the time we get done with this,

[1:44:28] that's going to be all developed up there.

[1:44:31] The developers are moving in on that real quick.

[1:44:34] So I don't know how buildable it all is.

[1:44:37] I don't know who they're going to sell those homes to because real estate in

[1:44:42] those homes to because real estate in Spring

[1:44:42] Hill is pretty bad right now.

[1:44:44] But should be aware of that because that quadrant shows all green up there right

[1:44:49] now, and that whole west side is checkerboarded with All right.

[1:44:53] Sam, you want to say something? What is the best practice here?

[1:44:57] Like, is it— there should be a standard check sheet of you guys need this layer,

[1:45:02] this layer, this layer, this layer, right?

[1:45:05] Like, I feel like we're sort of wandering.

[1:45:07] You know, are we about to go down rabbit holes that are just going to waste our

[1:45:13] holes that are just going to waste our time

[1:45:13] is what I'm asking.

[1:45:14] There is a lot of information available And a lot of things that could go into an

[1:45:20] analysis for this. You can definitely make it way more complicated than it probably

[1:45:26] needs to be, but it's really up to you all as a community what you want to consider

[1:45:33] as important. Every future land use process we do with every community is

[1:45:38] process we do with every community is different.

[1:45:39] When we did Frankfort and Franklin County in Kentucky, They literally—

[1:45:44] I think they had like 20-some advisory committee meetings and they went parcel by

[1:45:50] parcel. It took forever, but they went parcel by parcel.

[1:45:55] I wasn't, you know, we didn't have the budget for me to be at every one of those

[1:46:01] meetings, but that's an option.

[1:46:03] You know, you could go even more high level,

[1:46:06] like we could get rid of the yellow and we could just sort of have county land that

[1:46:13] is agricultural or residential, you know, like it's There's a lot of options for,

[1:46:19] you know, where you guys want to go.

[1:46:22] It kind of depends on how prescriptive do you want your future land use map and your

[1:46:28] plan to be. So there's no right answer.

[1:46:31] Who? James, go ahead, James.

[1:46:33] So when I, when I look at this map and all the green that we have on this map,

[1:46:38] I think of the soil types all over Marion County. And Mr.

[1:46:42] Townsend alluded to the,

[1:46:43] the east side of the county over into Marshall County being a lot of rock,

[1:46:48] but the majority of Marion County is pretty fertile land.

[1:46:52] And it's a personal struggle for me to think about taking land out of production

[1:46:58] think about taking land out of production out

[1:46:58] of, out of land that's growing food for the masses and putting a house or putting

[1:47:03] the masses and putting a house or putting a

[1:47:03] concrete slab over for a factory or whatever.

[1:47:06] So, but I'm not entirely opposed to it if it's land that's marginally productive.

[1:47:12] So I maybe consider having some common ground on areas that need to be left alone

[1:47:17] and need to be kept in production for food because I think our food security is

[1:47:23] something we need to be very conscious of as a community.

[1:47:26] I think back to 2020 when COVID hit, you know,

[1:47:29] there was a bottleneck in our food chain and we started seeing more of a need

[1:47:35] locally for local supplied food. And I hope we never experience that again.

[1:47:40] And see, I remember going to Sonic and they were putting a limit on burgers sold

[1:47:45] because they just had such, such a lack of supply.

[1:47:48] And, uh, you know, we've got some rich farmland that we produce some, some,

[1:47:53] some really valuable commodities that are feeding a lot of people,

[1:47:58] including ourselves, and we don't need to disregard that.

[1:48:02] All right, Eric Perryman, you're up, and then Sam, you're after him. Go ahead.

[1:48:07] I'm gonna go back to—

[1:48:08] and the map that you were paid to produce that you brought last week,

[1:48:13] I would love to know when you send that to us,

[1:48:16] the layers that you included In that map as to how you got to where those growth

[1:48:21] boundaries were, and whether those were just existing or whether you looked at it

[1:48:27] and said, this is what we used to determine that.

[1:48:30] And I think that I don't want to dismiss your company's expertise,

[1:48:35] and this is what you're here to do.

[1:48:37] And if you had validation, at least in the thought that these existed for a reason,

[1:48:43] I think we need to at least have some discussion about why they were there.

[1:48:48] And is it legitimate? But again, I think this is great discussion.

[1:48:52] We have to get some sort of criteria to move forward so that we're all in

[1:48:57] move forward so that we're all in agreement

[1:48:57] as to what we're looking at, because if not, we're going to—

[1:49:02] we're just going to walk in circles.

[1:49:04] And we can do that because we all come at it from a different perspective in a

[1:49:09] different way. The truth is 20 years,

[1:49:12] we don't know what this is going to look like anyway.

[1:49:15] We're just doing a good shot at it.

[1:49:18] And, and there's technologies that overcome all the things that we're saying

[1:49:23] overcome all the things that we're saying you

[1:49:23] can't do and you can do. You can't build on rock.

[1:49:26] Well, Chapel Hill's exploding and it ain't nothing but a rock.

[1:49:30] So, you know, there's lots of things that we can say.

[1:49:34] We just have to do a fair shot for citizens.

[1:49:37] And I will say this, I don't want to go county or parcel by parcel.

[1:49:41] The less government's involved in my parcel, the better it is.

[1:49:45] And I sure don't want us to step into everybody's world and say you can do this

[1:49:51] everybody's world and say you can do this or

[1:49:51] do that. But the responsibility of the committee is to say in an area,

[1:49:56] this is what we consider best for the county. And so I get that.

[1:50:00] But I would love to see what criteria you guys used to develop what you're paid to

[1:50:05] develop.

[1:50:06] Yeah, and we can definitely get into all of that.

[1:50:10] I think from what I have on the screen now,

[1:50:14] we need to dig in and look in more detail around Mount Pleasant, around Coleeoca,

[1:50:20] these 2 areas around Spring Hill.

[1:50:23] Are there any other areas of the county that you think we should analyze for kind

[1:50:30] of possible yellow inclusion?

[1:50:32] I think Sam, this is Sam.

[1:50:34] Um, you know, some of the people that have talked tonight are concerned with,

[1:50:39] you know, the removal of property rights.

[1:50:41] And so if yesterday they could do 1-acre lots throughout the county,

[1:50:46] and tomorrow we say, well, these parcel by parcel, go by road,

[1:50:49] I don't care what we do it by, we are going to be removing people's property

[1:50:54] going to be removing people's property rights.

[1:50:55] And, you know, I, you know, that is not something that, you know,

[1:50:59] and I don't know if there's a trigger in the zoning that can change some of that.

[1:51:04] I mean, I understand the concept, but, you know, I do think that it—

[1:51:08] you have to take into consideration both sides of all of this.

[1:51:12] You know, if somebody wants to preserve their land,

[1:51:15] then there should be a trigger that they can come down and say, look,

[1:51:19] we want to do that. But, you know,

[1:51:21] the gentleman that wants to quit farming in 10 years, and, you know,

[1:51:26] his son works in the corporate world, you know what I mean?

[1:51:29] I mean, I don't feel comfortable telling him like, hey,

[1:51:33] we're going to downzone your property.

[1:51:35] So, you know, I mean, I just, for what it's worth, you know,

[1:51:39] I don't know if there's some sort of happy medium and all that.

[1:51:43] But, you know, we live in a county that's growing and— You know,

[1:51:47] some of these people are using this or going to use this or have the opportunity

[1:51:52] going to use this or have the opportunity to

[1:51:52] use their land as generational wealth.

[1:51:54] And some people may already have that and some people don't.

[1:51:58] And I don't feel like we should be able to remove those rights from people.

[1:52:03] So, I mean, I just, I think that's a consideration that needs to be taken,

[1:52:07] consideration that needs to be taken, needs to,

[1:52:08] you know, be thought about. So.

[1:52:10] I think the entire growth needs to slow down myself personally.

[1:52:14] However, It's not going to happen.

[1:52:16] I lived in Atlanta for 20 years and watched the urban sprawl that happened

[1:52:20] watched the urban sprawl that happened there all

[1:52:21] the way up into Cherokee County and north of that.

[1:52:24] And there's even a piece of the puzzle we haven't even discussed or even brought up

[1:52:29] yet, and that's Huntsville, Alabama. They're coming north.

[1:52:33] You know, Lincoln County is— I had only 39,000 people.

[1:52:36] It's fixing to be Huntsville North,

[1:52:38] and they're going to keep coming up the interstate that way as well.

[1:52:43] Now granted, it's real hilly through there and all that,

[1:52:46] but that entire Morrisville Pike area, anything,

[1:52:49] anything within the interstate is going to grow, you know,

[1:52:53] and people have known that for years and they've invested and thought, okay, well,

[1:52:58] this, this is my nest egg and this is, you know, now here, now the time's coming.

[1:53:03] But I'd like to see the, you know, rest of the county protected.

[1:53:07] I used to— I live in Southeast Columbia or Southwest Columbia rather, and I'm like,

[1:53:12] okay, build all you want up in Spring Hill, but leave us alone down here.

[1:53:17] It's a, it's a tough call. Um, who else? Who's that? Sam, your light's on. Go

[1:53:21] Who's that? Sam, your light's on. Go ahead.

[1:53:22] 5-acre zoning on our comp plan for 20 years and nobody's done anything about it.

[1:53:27] So we, we make a recommendation to the Planning Commission,

[1:53:31] the Planning Commission approves this comp plan,

[1:53:34] and then if there's ever a downzoning,

[1:53:36] the County Commissioner are the only people that can do that.

[1:53:40] So just FYI, we, we're advisory only. Yeah, we recommend.

[1:53:43] Yep.

[1:53:44] All right, what else does this committee want? Come on, Chris. Real quick.

[1:53:49] Chris, District 9. When those maps come together,

[1:53:53] can we include the greenbelt so that we're aware—

[1:53:56] so there's an overlay of that as well?

[1:53:59] One other point, or a couple other points real quick.

[1:54:03] I think that some of these areas, we shouldn't just say, okay,

[1:54:07] for whatever reason it can't be developed.

[1:54:10] Let's not underestimate the lengths that the developers will go to.

[1:54:15] We know that they will, as anyone here last night, they will do illegal stuff.

[1:54:21] They will— on Double Branch,

[1:54:23] they brought a 60,000-pound excavator over there with a hammer on that.

[1:54:28] They had another Mini-X with the smaller hammer.

[1:54:32] They did nearly 5,000 linear feet through the bedrock out there to get that water

[1:54:38] line I also think, you know, just as an example, Dr.

[1:54:42] Kevin and I, we disagree about some of the land rights things,

[1:54:46] but we're both passionate.

[1:54:48] We show up and there's, you know, there's these camps of a few people that show up.

[1:54:54] But I think I agree with him. We need to talk to more people.

[1:54:59] And I just, I know this has been said before,

[1:55:02] but I don't think the people's voices have truly been heard,

[1:55:06] because I don't think we've given them ample opportunity to do that in a way that

[1:55:12] they can, that they can live up to.

[1:55:15] We never once opened this room on, on First Friday.

[1:55:19] And I don't think— I know that it would be arduous,

[1:55:22] but I don't think it's out of the question to do what this other county or

[1:55:28] municipality or whatever that you mentioned, where you go parcel by parcel,

[1:55:33] or at least give the people an opportunity where we can really hear their voices.

[1:55:39] and include that as harder data the same way we would include these various maps of

[1:55:45] the existing infrastructure, et cetera. So that's all I got. Thank you.

[1:55:50] Anybody else? Well, if I don't see any action or any more discussion,

[1:55:55] supper's waiting on me at the house. So what does this committee want to do?

[1:56:01] Do we keep talking about Northeast, or do we— Set a time to reconvene?

[1:56:06] Do we have more public hearings?

[1:56:08] Do we send a survey out to every property owner in the county? What do we do?

[1:56:14] Yeah, I mean, we're going to have to have a couple more advisory committee meetings.

[1:56:20] That's just the bottom line. But, um, go ahead.

[1:56:24] Yeah, well, why don't I start by digging into You know,

[1:56:28] the areas around Mount Pleasant, the areas around Coleeoka,

[1:56:32] and these areas around Spring Hill.

[1:56:34] If there's any other areas you want me to add, tell me,

[1:56:38] and I can go and get zoomed-in maps for you all.

[1:56:42] And then you all could, you know,

[1:56:44] look at those maps with more detail in a zoomed-in fashion and then provide some

[1:56:50] recommendations.

[1:56:51] How about that?

[1:56:52] You know.

[1:56:55] Okay. Anything else for this committee then? Last going once. Yes, sir, come on

[1:57:00] then? Last going once. Yes, sir, come on up.

[1:57:00] We're right there. I'm just— for that matter,

[1:57:03] this is our second public comment period.

[1:57:06] So anybody that wants to speak, just come on up. You'll have 3 minutes.

[1:57:10] Give your name and your district, please. Real quick question.

[1:57:14] Kevin Byer, District 9.

[1:57:16] Can the committee take comments from individual property owners what they would

[1:57:21] desire with their— you know, you got a map. Why not— Bring up that website,

[1:57:26] map. Why not— Bring up that website, please.

[1:57:26] Why not say, hey, give people who own property or property owners the

[1:57:31] property or property owners the opportunity to

[1:57:31] say, hey, this is why I want to be every 5 acres, every 10 acres.

[1:57:36] I don't want my property developed,

[1:57:38] or I want my zoning to remain what it was when I purchased it.

[1:57:42] We've had a website that's been up for several months now where the public can

[1:57:47] comment. But no, I'm saying for you guys, when you— It's a loophole.

[1:57:51] I'm saying specifically when you go through to make your decisions on the

[1:57:56] through to make your decisions on the specific

[1:57:57] zoning map, like you take— I would say majority of people aren't going to, you

[1:58:02] majority of people aren't going to, you know,

[1:58:02] they're going to be ambivalent.

[1:58:04] But there's going to be people who are interested in, you know, specific things.

[1:58:09] Some people, Chris, are going to want no building on his property ever.

[1:58:14] I would like to preserve the zoning I paid for,

[1:58:17] and I'm sure a lot of farmers would as well.

[1:58:20] So can, can we not— can you guys not take comments from specific property owners?

[1:58:25] Absolutely.

[1:58:26] That, that you collate with your decisions?

[1:58:29] Absolutely.

[1:58:31] Okay, perfect. That's my only question. Thank you.

[1:58:34] I mean, and there again, we're not making a decision, we're making a recommendation.

[1:58:39] We're— that's the whole point of this, is for you to tell us So that we can say,

[1:58:44] well, this is what they say, this is what they want, this is what the county wants,

[1:58:49] this is what this person on this, you know, thing is looking at.

[1:58:53] But, you know, and, and we've had the technology to do that.

[1:58:57] And, and, you know, we've been to— we went to 4 different schools,

[1:59:01] 4 different schools around the county.

[1:59:03] I know we went, we went out to Santa Fe, uh, out to Hampshire.

[1:59:07] Well, it was a Hampshire or Mount Pleasant or— Holyoke was one.

[1:59:11] I mean, I went to The Coleoka meeting.

[1:59:13] But nobody really registered, hey, this is my property.

[1:59:17] I mean, I've made my comments, but nobody actually said, hey, all right,

[1:59:21] this property on this map, I want my zoning to remain what it is.

[1:59:25] Liz, would you bring up that website,

[1:59:28] the comprehensive plan website where people can make comments?

[1:59:32] I mean, yes, I can. Bring up the website,

[1:59:35] but we don't have like the future land use map up

[1:59:39] there yet for—

[1:59:40] But there was comment. There was spaces for persons to make comments, wasn't it?

[1:59:44] Yeah.

[1:59:44] So they can say, my name is John Doe and I live at such and such address and I don't

[1:59:49] want this. I mean, I did that. I wrote a long passage with my name and address.

[1:59:54] Did it come through Kevin Byer? Do you have that information?

[1:59:58] I'm not sure at the moment. On the website or at the meeting?

[2:00:04] At the meeting.

[2:00:05] Yeah, then we would have that information.

[2:00:06] So you have— but you have that information about my specific properties?

[2:00:10] I mean, I would have to double-check. I don't know off the top of my head.

[2:00:15] Okay. Well, I just think that people should be given an opportunity. Thank you.

[2:00:21] Yes, sir. All right. Is there anybody else that wants to speak? Public comment.

[2:00:26] Hang on.

[2:00:29] Go ahead.

[2:00:29] Spring Hill has grown. Columbia has grown.

[2:00:33] And now Mount Pleasant is starting to grow a little bit.

[2:00:37] We can't be totally opposed to some growth.

[2:00:40] And we can't be totally opposed to something that the brownfield down in

[2:00:46] something that the brownfield down in Mount

[2:00:46] Pleasant where they wanted to put the solar panels and put goats on it.

[2:00:51] I mean, that's all that can be used for. It can't be used for anything else.

[2:00:57] So there's some things that we're going to have to allow because of the land.

[2:01:03] But I just— Mount Pleasant needs to grow a little bit too.

[2:01:07] So I just wanted to say that. Deborah, did you want to speak? Go ahead.

[2:01:13] So clearly having the meetings at the 5 schools There was not a large turnout at

[2:01:19] schools There was not a large turnout at any

[2:01:19] of them. And so how do we get this information out to the people?

[2:01:24] It's like, yeah, well, we should let the people give our input,

[2:01:29] but how do we do that successfully?

[2:01:32] Because it's— I don't consider, you know,

[2:01:35] 5 people at a meeting at a school a successful use of our time or their time.

[2:01:41] So what is your recommendation for us to get,

[2:01:44] to get the information out there to everyone in the county?

[2:01:49] It's a very difficult thing to do.

[2:01:51] And from when you're planning for a county, you're never going to reach

[2:01:57] county, you're never going to reach everybody.

[2:01:58] And every planning process we do, we, you know, we can't reach every person.

[2:02:04] For— we're working on Brentwood's comprehensive plan right now,

[2:02:09] and they are sending postcards to every single resident in the community.

[2:02:15] That's 15,000 residents and it's costing like 8 grand.

[2:02:20] So they think that's an important thing to do.

[2:02:23] So there's always the ability to reach more people if the community and the,

[2:02:30] you know, the county want to spend the money and the resources to do that.

[2:02:36] But somebody here has to be, you know, knocking on doors or standing with flyers.

[2:02:42] Yeah.

[2:02:43] You know, people have to get out in the community and do that.

[2:02:48] I can't force you guys to do that. You guys can't— you know, I'm not here.

[2:02:54] So thank you.

[2:02:55] Come on. Yeah, well, no, we got public comment,

[2:02:59] so come on up and you go after her.

[2:03:01] Just tell us your name and your district.

[2:03:04] Sabina Barnett, District 5.

[2:03:06] It is hard to bring people to commission meetings,

[2:03:10] but it's been impossible to communicate on this issue.

[2:03:15] I have been to Collioca to a little school.

[2:03:19] I've been to Spring Hill.

[2:03:20] There were no more than 6 people there, and one of them was a developer.

[2:03:25] There's social media, y'all. You could put it on I Heart Columbia.

[2:03:29] You could put it on the Murray County site. You could put it in each little

[2:03:33] site. You could put it in each little hamlet.

[2:03:34] They have a social media page.

[2:03:37] You can put it out there.

[2:03:39] I mean, I've tried to get my neighbors to come,

[2:03:42] but it's very difficult for working people to come at a 5:30 meeting.

[2:03:46] It's very, very difficult. And there's got to be better communication.

[2:03:53] It's hard enough for me to get an agenda for the Planning Commission meeting.

[2:03:57] It's so buried in the site. But we have social media, and there are other ways.

[2:04:01] Thank you.

[2:04:02] of doing it. We just have to make it a priority because I do think that people

[2:04:08] priority because I do think that people have

[2:04:08] a lot of good ideas.

[2:04:09] And as we're talking about places for growth,

[2:04:13] it's impossible unless we have the road structure first.

[2:04:17] We are seeing our half a mile of Double Branch completely ruined because of all of

[2:04:23] the construction coming down a downhill when we have a heavy rain.

[2:04:29] They just tar and chipped our road in June and it's ruined already.

[2:04:33] And then we have somebody else who's putting a bridge over part of the creek

[2:04:39] putting a bridge over part of the creek and

[2:04:39] that's going to probably cause flooding.

[2:04:42] So there's so many issues to take into consideration when you talk

[2:04:47] about growth. And many people have said some areas cannot handle it.

[2:04:51] But I think the main thing is we have to communicate better.

[2:04:57] And there's just creative ways.

[2:05:00] Ask a teenager, hire a teenager, and they'll do it for you. Thank you.

[2:05:05] All right, anybody else wish to speak? Come on up. Kevin Byer again, District 9.

[2:05:10] 2 dissimilar comments.

[2:05:12] One is, with all due respect, I've made—

[2:05:14] I have made my comments several times to you. I've written it.

[2:05:19] I've written a letter.

[2:05:20] I don't know how many of you guys have received my letter,

[2:05:24] but I don't know that that information is getting collated.

[2:05:28] So I think we need to make sure people who submit that information,

[2:05:33] that should be taken into account when you draw the map.

[2:05:37] And so I think you should know the people who are showing up at the meetings and

[2:05:42] are— I think we do. would like to have their property either remain or change.

[2:05:47] I think that's an important aspect of this whole thing.

[2:05:51] Number 2, dissimilar, is I think we need to focus on what's best for Murray County.

[2:05:57] It needs to develop in some regard in a smart fashion.

[2:06:01] We need to have better schools, better services.

[2:06:04] And again, most of the county is not ready for development,

[2:06:08] but I think we should focus— how do we make this a thriving economic engine?

[2:06:13] And how can we make the schools better and a place that people want to come?

[2:06:18] That's it. All right, anybody else wish to speak? All right, I see none.

[2:06:23] Uh, any last comments from this committee? Otherwise we're going home.

[2:06:28] Sam, go ahead. Tonight I do not want to just come back to another meeting and

[2:06:33] dawdle. Yeah, let's get it together. I wish I had an answer, but— Right.

[2:06:38] So what is our plan going forward?

[2:06:41] You're going to work on the areas that we talked about.

[2:06:44] You're going to— we're all going to,

[2:06:47] or some of us are going to get together and look at layered maps,

[2:06:51] whether we take that any farther or not.

[2:06:54] You know, we need to get some layered maps to see some of the areas.

[2:06:59] I think people kind of like the idea of dividing the county into 4 quadrants and

[2:07:04] doing one at a time.

[2:07:05] Of course, you know, we're 20 minutes till 8 now,

[2:07:09] and we're no farther than where we were when we got here tonight.

[2:07:13] So, well, we are, we are, we are, but I mean, but still, we don't— we didn't have

[2:07:19] mean, but still, we don't— we didn't have a—

[2:07:19] there's no closure. We're not, we're not at any closure. Deborah, go ahead.

[2:07:24] To Sam's point, can we put something on the calendar right now before we leave

[2:07:29] the calendar right now before we leave here

[2:07:30] so that those of us that can attend and look for layered maps,

[2:07:34] look through layered maps, and give our input can do so,

[2:07:38] because leaving here without— Well,

[2:07:40] the County Commission convenes the first Monday and Tuesday of the month,

[2:07:45] and the first 3 Mondays are shot for commission meetings.

[2:07:49] You can't have the room then. And then, yeah, Thursdays don't work.

[2:07:54] Tuesdays are pretty much the evenings,

[2:07:56] but it would be like the 3rd Tuesday When's Planning Commission?

[2:08:01] Planning Commission is the 4th Monday. The 4th Monday.

[2:08:04] School board's 1st and 3rd Tuesday. 1st and 3rd Tuesday.

[2:08:08] Thursdays work for us usually. Thursdays work?

[2:08:11] So Thursdays, so, you know, you could do Thursdays.

[2:08:15] So in September you've got the 3rd, the 10th.

[2:08:18] Well, see, that's city— well,

[2:08:20] the 10th is City Council voting session for those that go to that. 17th works.

[2:08:25] So the 3rd, the 3rd, uh, The 3rd Thursday of September is the 17th.

[2:08:30] Is that too far out? That's pretty far out. Too far out.

[2:08:34] I mean, if we're going to do this in quadrants,

[2:08:38] and I know clearly we're not going to make our October 1st goal at this

[2:08:44] point, so I don't know.

[2:08:46] What do you guys think? What are the ramifications of that?

[2:08:50] We're thinking about that now. Moratorium expires, set to expire October 1st.

[2:08:55] So that would be on the commission to do anything about that.

[2:08:59] But isn't that problematic? We got what we got. I mean, like we've always had.

[2:09:04] In a sense of, isn't it problematic that if it expires, what y'all go to,

[2:09:09] just revert back to what y'all had? That's what we have currently.

[2:09:13] It's never gone away.

[2:09:15] Would it be possible—

[2:09:16] she's going to send us information concerning those areas and those maps for

[2:09:21] concerning those areas and those maps for in an

[2:09:21] email chain or something.

[2:09:23] Anyone that has questions,

[2:09:25] email those questions to that chain so that the whole group can see them.

[2:09:30] And then you guys can work to build an agenda off of the feedback that you get

[2:09:35] agenda off of the feedback that you get off

[2:09:35] of concerns or questions that we have.

[2:09:37] And then the maps that you send— 17th is a long time. That's a long way.

[2:09:42] I think, I think while the conversation's fresh,

[2:09:45] We at least need to be in conversation.

[2:09:48] If we wait a month to pick it back up, we start right back over where we are.

[2:09:53] How about Tuesday the 8th? Well, I think, uh, let me see if I can chime in here.

[2:09:58] Liz, is it possible to do a worksheet with the map on there,

[2:10:02] share it with the advisory committee,

[2:10:05] let them mark it up as a group or individually and put their ideas on there?

[2:10:10] And Submit it to my office.

[2:10:12] Yeah.

[2:10:14] So if I— Or as a public input from McBride, Dale, Clarion.

[2:10:19] Can y'all do that like we do the website? Except for the advisory committee.

[2:10:26] It doesn't matter.

[2:10:27] So there's options. Probably, I mean, what would be the easiest is if, again,

[2:10:33] we sort of zoom in and we design it so you could print it at like 11 by 17.

[2:10:38] You know, I don't want to assume that you guys are going to print big maps,

[2:10:43] but we could zoom it in.

[2:10:45] You guys can look at it on the computer, and then I could—

[2:10:49] I know we do have the capabilities to do, like, interactive maps,

[2:10:54] but I don't know if that's— I feel like that might just be too much at this point.

[2:11:00] That's what I was—

[2:11:01] oh. And so if we zoom it in and then—

[2:11:04] You all could sort of either comment on a PDF or like on an image or

[2:11:10] just, you know, send an email with bulleted comments, you know.

[2:11:15] Does that make sense as like an interim step?

[2:11:20] Well, we also don't— you know, we also mentioned the issue earlier about, you

[2:11:23] mentioned the issue earlier about, you know,

[2:11:24] he doesn't know this part of the county, he doesn't know that part of the county.

[2:11:27] So, so being individual about it, you know, there needs to be that—

[2:11:31] there needs to be collaboration. Involved. So—

[2:11:33] Well, I think if everybody has the opportunity to comment on all the county,

[2:11:38] if you only want to comment on one area as a person, you can.

[2:11:43] And we can take all those comments,

[2:11:45] do an updated version of this map from those comments,

[2:11:49] and then we can bring that version back out to the public for review.

[2:11:54] I mean, we're going to probably have still 2 or 3 4 or 5, I don't know,

[2:11:58] iterations of this map before the final.

[2:12:01] So, but I think we can kind of have a working draft in between where we can dig

[2:12:07] working draft in between where we can dig in,

[2:12:07] we can discuss things a little bit more detail,

[2:12:10] then that can go out for public comment.

[2:12:13] No, I said the 8th. Oh no.

[2:12:16] Well, tell her coordination.

[2:12:20] Come on, please come on up.

[2:12:24] I just want to say, if you decided to have quadrant meetings,

[2:12:27] those dates would need to be set.

[2:12:29] Go ahead and set those dates.

[2:12:31] All of them can be put out to the public because they would have to be bang, bang,

[2:12:35] bang.

[2:12:35] We got to get the notices out. Pardon?

[2:12:37] Got to get the notices out.

[2:12:38] Yeah. So I mean, I would say, why would you—

[2:12:41] if you're going to do that and if that's your choice to do,

[2:12:45] then why wouldn't we set those— go ahead and set those dates?

[2:12:50] Yeah, see, and, and we're sitting here debating, but I'm liking Tuesdays myself.

[2:12:55] Tuesday the 8th, Tuesday the 15th, Tuesday the 22nd. Do what?

[2:13:00] No, the first, the first Tuesday is, uh, the first is a Tuesday. You're right.

[2:13:05] Yeah, okay, the first.

[2:13:07] So that you're right, so they couldn't do that because of that.

[2:13:11] Well then, you know, Wednesday's church night, but it is tough. Go ahead, Deborah.

[2:13:17] Not every date is going to work for everybody,

[2:13:20] but if we can at least get some dates online for those people that can make it,

[2:13:26] but in the meantime, before those dates,

[2:13:29] these maps are sent out so we have something to work with in our brain before

[2:13:34] something to work with in our brain before we

[2:13:34] meet. So we're meeting on the date with information that has already been sent out

[2:13:40] and reviewed. Does that make sense? Well, pretty light on.

[2:13:44] Yeah, I agree.

[2:13:45] I agree with what he's saying.

[2:13:47] Back to Thursdays, uh, first 3 Thursdays in September.

[2:13:50] But also, I would say I would not make it 5:30.

[2:13:53] I, I hate to do this to you, but I'd say 6:30 or 7:30.

[2:13:56] Go home, get dinner, and come back, because these people can't come after

[2:14:00] because these people can't come after work.

[2:14:01] Let's, let's— I mean, you know, county commission meetings start at 6:30,

[2:14:05] and that's, that's to give everybody time to have a meal and, and Feed the dog,

[2:14:10] cut the dog out, and then come back.

[2:14:12] So I'm, you know, Thursdays are fine, but I would say 6:30.

[2:14:15] I wouldn't start before that.

[2:14:17] And I hate to say that, but, you know, if it gets the public in here,

[2:14:21] let's get the public in here.

[2:14:23] So, so, so, okay, so, so we're looking at, uh,

[2:14:25] of course it's going to be close to getting a notice out on that first one.

[2:14:30] It can be done through the Daily Herald. You can't do it through, uh, Main Street.

[2:14:35] Well, it doesn't have to be. So first, so Thursday the 3rd, Thursday the 10th.

[2:14:39] If I tell them tomorrow, I can publish it. It'll come out next Wednesday.

[2:14:43] So Thursday the 3rd, Thursday the 10th, Thursday the 17th, and Thursday the 27th.

[2:14:48] 24th.

[2:14:49] I'm sorry, 24th. You're right. So the 3rd will be the northeast quadrant.

[2:14:55] The 10th will be the southeast quadrant.

[2:14:58] The 17th will be the southwest quadrant,

[2:15:01] and the 24th will be the northwest quadrant. Define quadrant while we're

[2:15:07] quadrant. Define quadrant while we're here.

[2:15:07] So if you take some—

[2:15:09] if you take Highway 50 and go all the way across and then down through the middle of

[2:15:15] Columbia, Highway 31 as it were. Do we want to do it that way, Eric?

[2:15:21] Well, then y'all tell me. Look at Collioca, Mount Pleasant, Columbia.

[2:15:26] You tell me then. I don't know, you want to split Columbia into 4 pieces?

[2:15:32] Well, Columbia is already a city, so it's already done. I mean, it is what it is.

[2:15:38] Well, I'm I mean the area around.

[2:15:41] Well, and, and there again, you've got geography issues and land size issues.

[2:15:47] So you, you may be right. I tell my wife that.

[2:15:50] I say we sit— well, never mind, I'm not on the committee.

[2:15:55] Well, I mean, committee, I mean, y'all tell me, is that—

[2:15:59] does that work for you guys? Highway 31? Yeah. All right, let them do it.

[2:16:05] So, but anyway, northeast first on the 3rd, southeast on the— let's see,

[2:16:10] southeast on the 10th, southwest on the 17th, northwest on the 24th.

[2:16:16] And all at 6:30. All at 6:30. Hear ye, hear ye. The next 4 Thursdays.

[2:16:21] All right, anybody else? Deborah, go ahead. Hang on, let me get your light.

[2:16:27] So does this give you enough time to get a map together with overlays?

[2:16:32] And who provides the overlays for her with our infrastructure, water?

[2:16:36] Is that something that you have to get to her, Robert?

[2:16:40] I'll reach out to the utilities. We don't man that, but I do have some PDFs of it.

[2:16:45] But for a GIS overlay I'll have to reach out to the utilities.

[2:16:48] For the power, the state of Tennessee, I'll have to look through the utilities,

[2:16:53] see if they got their individual, but if not,

[2:16:56] I'm almost certain that the state of Tennessee has it.

[2:16:59] Whether I can get it in time or not, doubtful.

[2:17:02] So there's new protections for Homeland Security of utility workers.

[2:17:06] Yeah. Oh, yeah. So just confirm with her, please,

[2:17:09] what overlays we need for her to have In order for her to get a comprehensive map

[2:17:13] out to us. And we ought to be able to get— Todd Shultz is on this committee,

[2:17:17] but he couldn't be here tonight with County Water.

[2:17:20] So, you know, we ought to be able to reach out to him and get some information out

[2:17:24] of him.

[2:17:25] Okay.

[2:17:29] And Deborah, the maps— the map she's pulling from is from our mapping sources.

[2:17:34] Johnny Stevens does all the parcel data.

[2:17:37] We don't have GIS mapping for the county or a mapper other than for the parcel data

[2:17:42] and tax— for the tax assessor's office.

[2:17:45] So I'll have to look to these other entities.

[2:17:48] My office has just now got a mapper, and we're doing the zoning and stuff like

[2:17:53] we're doing the zoning and stuff like that.

[2:17:54] And soon to be, we'll be tracking every permit and development in the county

[2:17:59] permit and development in the county through

[2:17:59] GIS. But currently, we don't have all the utilities,

[2:18:03] all the infrastructure layouts or any of that, so I'll have to outsource that.

[2:18:08] Okay.

[2:18:09] All right, anything else?

[2:18:11] I'll just say this, there are 600 cemeteries in Murray County.

[2:18:16] Anything else for this committee? All right, seeing none, we will adjourn.

[2:18:22] Thank you.

Advisory Committee Study Session

Transcript