[0:01] Yeah, we're live.

[0:06] » Like to call to order the June 2nd, 226

[0:10] [music]

[0:11] council workshop.

[0:14] Could I have a roll call, please?

[0:16] » Council person

[0:17] » Here. Council person Murphy

[0:19] » Here.

[0:20] » Council person Ziggler

[0:21] » Here.

[0:22] » Person Cooper

[0:23] » Here.

[0:24] » Council President Coffman.

[0:27] » Council person [music] buyers

[0:28] » Here.

[0:30] here.

[0:30] » Mayor

[0:31] » Here.

[0:37] » If you'd like, please.

[0:47] » That's great.

[1:10] All right. And uh please join us in a

[1:12] pledge. I pledge algiance to the flag of

[1:15] the United States of America and to the

[1:18] republic for which it stands. One nation

[1:22] under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[1:25] justice for all.

[1:30] » Great. Are there any additions,

[1:32] deletions, or reorganization of the

[1:34] agenda? [cough]

[1:36] [clears throat]

[1:37] Could I have a motion to approve the

[1:38] agenda as published?

[1:40] » So moved.

[1:41] » Second.

[1:42] » Motion by council person Murphy. Second

[1:44] by council person Gezy to approve the

[1:48] agenda as published. All in favor?

[1:52] » I.

[1:54] » Anyone opposed?

[1:56] All right. Uh, next citizen comments.

[1:59] The first item we have is Sharon

[2:01] Lintner.

[2:04] » Good evening. Um, I wanted to go

[2:07] back to uh actually to May 18th of the

[2:12] bid opening. I was present for the bid

[2:14] opening and during that uh process, the

[2:18] solicitor announced that this was in all

[2:21] respects a responsive bid. Everything we

[2:24] need to consider this a responsive bid.

[2:27] And the solicitor then stated there was

[2:29] going to be an executive session that

[2:31] evening to quote discuss the bid. There

[2:34] had to be nine sets of eyes on this

[2:37] document from between May 18th and May

[2:40] 26th. And yet apparently no one caught

[2:43] the fact that the 60-day requirement was

[2:46] missing. It seems the bid should have

[2:49] been rejected long before it became an

[2:51] agenda item. The public should have been

[2:54] informed immediately, not 4 hours into

[2:57] the meeting. As I recall, the council

[2:59] vice president said that May 26 was the

[3:03] first time they had to discuss this,

[3:05] which differs from what the solicitor

[3:07] stated, and I wasn't real familiar with

[3:11] the term responsive bid. So, I did have

[3:14] to do a little research on that. And in

[3:17] municipal contracting, a responsive bid

[3:20] means the contractor's proposal meets

[3:23] all the procedural, administrative, and

[3:26] technical requirements outlined in the

[3:28] bureau's solicitation document. It

[3:31] signifies the vendor provided the right

[3:33] paperwork, agreed to the bureau's exact

[3:35] terms, and submitted the bid on time.

[3:39] And my understanding is that the vice

[3:42] president also did write the RFP. So,

[3:45] I'm just wondering what what happened.

[3:48] Am I wrong in thinking that this could

[3:50] have been rejected on the spot because

[3:52] it did not contain the proper things

[3:55] that were required

[3:56] » At the bid opening. We did not read

[4:01] we we verified that each of the items

[4:04] that we had requested. We verified that

[4:07] each of those were present which was all

[4:11] we required um at that time and one of

[4:16] those items that we required them to

[4:19] address was timeline. We did not look at

[4:22] the details at the bid opening. We

[4:24] looked to verify that they were there.

[4:26] We didn't look at

[4:28] » Well he did mention the 4% that was

[4:31] required. I know he said that and he

[4:33] said

[4:34] » And then what what happened though? I

[4:36] mean if you had an executive session and

[4:39] then did you not have those

[4:42] » The bid with you from did you have to

[4:44] turn them back in or did you have that

[4:46] in your possession to read it?

[4:47] » We did. We did have those. Yes.

[4:49] » So you had plenty of time actually to to

[4:51] read them. You would think somebody

[4:53] would have caught it.

[4:54] » Yes. Some of us did catch it. But then

[4:57] why wouldn't it have been rejected

[4:58] before we even put it on the agenda?

[5:02] » Because when we have a responsive bid,

[5:07] we have to award or reject that bid at a

[5:10] public meeting.

[5:11] » But how was it responsive? because the

[5:14] definition doesn't

[5:15] » But it

[5:18] » Because we did a we did sort of a hybrid

[5:21] of a sealed bid.

[5:25] Technically

[5:27] all that is was required was to meet was

[5:31] to contain the information that we had

[5:34] requested. We requested a timeline.

[5:38] They gave us a timeline.

[5:40] It doesn't it didn't meet what we wanted

[5:42] and that is can be the basis for

[5:44] rejection.

[5:47] But just because it doesn't meet our

[5:51] expectation doesn't mean it's not

[5:53] responsive because it did include their

[5:55] timeline.

[5:57] » But I'm still going to ask if it's

[5:59] statemandated 60-day.

[6:02] I I just don't see how that fits into

[6:04] this. But okay. Thank you for trying to

[6:07] explain that to me. Um, also just really

[6:09] quickly, I didn't speak at the last

[6:12] meeting, so I'm gonna make up for it

[6:14] tonight. [laughter]

[6:15] Um, no. Um,

[6:17] » A little more on the mic.

[6:18] » Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Um, I just wanted

[6:22] to make a suggestion, too. If there is

[6:25] ever a meeting that you anticipate that

[6:28] kind of a crowd again, I think it would

[6:31] be wise to have a numbered signin sheet

[6:34] because how in the world, you know, you

[6:37] had to ask people to leave and I don't

[6:40] think that was right in the first place,

[6:42] but you had to ask people to leave in

[6:44] order to proceed with the meeting. I

[6:45] think it should have been cancelled, but

[6:48] if you had a numbered sign-in sheet, you

[6:50] could tell when you were hitting the

[6:51] maximum capacity and then you would know

[6:54] what your decision was going to be. I

[6:56] don't know who counted heads to know

[6:58] enough people even left that room. I

[7:00] mean, I don't even think they did

[7:02] because it was standing room only, but

[7:04] um I mean, certainly I know there were

[7:06] people outside, but okay. So, that's

[7:09] just a suggestion there. And um

[7:12] as far as the ebikes and scooters, I

[7:15] almost got hit on my own sidewalk trying

[7:17] to work it on yard work that I was doing

[7:20] that I had to reach around my retaining

[7:23] wall. And I mean the guy came so fast

[7:27] out of nowhere I couldn't even hear him

[7:28] coming. And I mean I'm elderly. If I get

[7:31] hit by one of them I'm going to break

[7:34] like an egg. And I just think why do we

[7:37] [clears throat] can we this is my

[7:39] suggestion. Can the police if they stop

[7:43] them for that? Can they confiscate?

[7:46] Okay. So if they take the ebike or the

[7:48] scooter, is it possible for them to hold

[7:51] it until they would like complete some

[7:54] type of safety course at the market

[7:56] house or something? Hold one once a

[7:58] month or something or once every six

[8:00] months. I mean, if you want them to get

[8:02] the the bike back in a timely fashion,

[8:05] you would almost have to I didn't know

[8:06] if that was even legal to make them do

[8:08] something like that, but I just think

[8:09] the word would spread pretty quick

[8:11] because nobody's going to want to sit in

[8:13] that. And it's not just kids doing this.

[8:15] This guy was a complete adult. I mean,

[8:18] riding right down the sidewalk very

[8:20] fast, faster than I say some of the cars

[8:23] traveled. And he was gone. I would have

[8:25] never even known who hit me. And then,

[8:27] you know, this morning we're rounding a

[8:29] corner and here comes a kid on a a

[8:32] scooter, motorized scooter. And I mean,

[8:34] we're like head on to each other and I

[8:36] got a picture from another guy in town

[8:38] saying, "Here it is." I said, "Well,

[8:40] it's all over the place. Every time we

[8:42] drive through, that's what we see." So,

[8:45] » May I respond, Sharon? Yes.

[8:46] » Just I I have a little bit of experience

[8:48] on for picture. So, uh, the statute does

[8:51] allow us to, um, seize, uh, those things

[8:56] in the commission of the crime. Um, once

[8:58] there's a dispos disposition on that

[9:00] crime, uh, if that person is found

[9:02] guilty, the, uh, county, uh, can apply

[9:04] for forfeite and the county would um,

[9:07] receive the site the whatever offending

[9:09] ebike or whatever cycle it was. um as a

[9:14] bureau we couldn't retain them merely

[9:16] and uh request or require them to take a

[9:18] class. That wouldn't be uh legal. But uh

[9:22] I think the mayor and I are looking to

[9:25] sit down and talk and uh look at a more

[9:27] restrictive policy for those ebikes in

[9:29] the very near future.

[9:30] » Okay. Thank you for that because I I

[9:33] really feel it's dangerous. I mean I at

[9:35] this point for pedestrians and drivers.

[9:37] » I completely agree because had a few

[9:39] runins this weekend myself. So,

[9:42] » Thank you.

[9:43] » And honestly, if we start seasoning

[9:45] bikes and scooters, word will get out

[9:47] there.

[9:47] » Yes, it will.

[9:48] » It'll get out there fast.

[9:49] » It only takes a few and then people

[9:51] start get the message when they're

[9:53] » When their bikes are being auctioned.

[9:55] » Thank you.

[10:00] » All right. Uh the next sign up is Mary

[10:02] Whitiser.

[10:10] Hi Frank. I'm good.

[10:14] » I'm not that tall. Oh, Mary Wickheiser.

[10:18] Good evening. Um, this morning my daily

[10:22] walk, needless to say, takes me on

[10:24] Walnut Street.

[10:26] And this morning the lights down at the

[10:31] intersection of Front and Walnut are

[10:34] flashing. They are yellow for Front

[10:36] Street. They are red for Walnut Street.

[10:42] As you come from the river park, there's

[10:46] a sign says do not stop on tracks. Now,

[10:50] if you're coming out of the river park,

[10:52] and my I was always taught, maybe I'm

[10:55] wrong, a flashing red light means you

[10:58] stop.

[10:59] If it's a yellow light, you proceed with

[11:01] caution.

[11:03] So, we're kind of back to the stop sign

[11:06] that used to be there. [clears throat]

[11:09] My concern with that, not only Norfolk

[11:14] Southern might get a little

[11:17] tick that we've got cars stopping on the

[11:19] tracks,

[11:21] but you've got a lot more people coming

[11:26] out of that river park than when it was

[11:28] a stop sign. When it was a stop sign, it

[11:32] was mainly the locals.

[11:34] The locals

[11:36] knew

[11:37] that they knew how to handle that

[11:39] intersection.

[11:41] So for how many years now has that been

[11:44] a signaled intersection?

[11:47] And

[11:50] do the pedestrian

[11:52] crossings still work? You got a lot more

[11:54] pedestrians going across Front Street

[11:56] than you ever had? I am seriously

[11:59] concerned if that's going to stay that

[12:01] way for the next six months.

[12:05] It was working this morning, Mary. I was

[12:06] down there before you.

[12:08] » Yeah,

[12:08] » The signals worked and the buttons

[12:10] worked because I used the buttons a

[12:12] little.

[12:12] » Okay.

[12:13] » And come [music] back again.

[12:14] » So, something must have happened while

[12:17] they were doing the construction today.

[12:18] » I don't know.

[12:19] » That might have knocked it out of whack.

[12:20] » Yeah, I was talking to Jake down there.

[12:23] I ran into him. I don't know.

[12:24] » He said he was.

[12:29] » Okay. So, we're back to regular red

[12:31] green.

[12:32] » Yeah,

[12:34] » I'll let you know if it happens again.

[12:36] [laughter]

[12:38] Um, the other thing I had sent an email

[12:42] last week

[12:44] and part of that email I think I sent it

[12:47] to Derek, to Leo,

[12:50] and to Jack, and it had to do with the

[12:53] sleepers down there, the curbing which

[12:56] is being taken care of.

[12:59] But over on Chestnut Street, there is a

[13:04] sign at Second and Chestnut that says

[13:07] road closed ahead.

[13:10] There is nothing at that jug handle. If

[13:12] you understand what I mean by the jug

[13:14] handle coming off of the bridge, there

[13:16] is nothing there. This morning as I came

[13:19] up second from Walnut Walking, there was

[13:21] a fire truck and four cars had come off

[13:24] on the jug handle.

[13:27] So

[13:28] there needs to be signage there

[13:32] where that curve we we always call them

[13:34] jug handles because if you look at that

[13:36] intersection you could pick it up by the

[13:38] jug handles. So I really think there's

[13:42] you need another sign. They've got to

[13:44] put another sign over there.

[13:46] » Thank you for

[13:49] » Derek did get back to me. He said it's

[13:51] mainly a pendot project. So there was

[13:53] nothing he could intervene with as far

[13:56] as that went. Um

[14:00] several months ago there was a local

[14:02] businessman in here and he had wanted to

[14:05] put signage

[14:08] on the fence down along 441.

[14:11] » Has anything been done to advance that?

[14:14] Has that fallen along the way? I know he

[14:16] was really

[14:18] at that point looking for something to

[14:21] be able to promote his business and

[14:23] possibly other businesses in town.

[14:25] » He he should he has a sign

[14:28] » On the fence.

[14:29] » Yes.

[14:30] » Good.

[14:31] » If the sign meets [music] the sign

[14:34] » Ordinance.

[14:35] » Okay.

[14:35] » And he has permission from Pendot, which

[14:38] I'm assuming.

[14:39] » No. Pendot.

[14:40] » Pendot said it's not our baby. That's

[14:43] yours.

[14:43] » Okay.

[14:44] » Okay. If the burrow approves it, someone

[14:48] comes in and proves and asks to put a

[14:50] sign there.

[14:51] » The burough approves it and it meets the

[14:52] sign

[14:54] height and width, they can put it there.

[14:56] » Yeah, he has a sign there. I was just as

[14:59] at his last week, he was talking

[15:01] » That way. So,

[15:02] » Couple days after that meeting, he had

[15:04] his sign.

[15:05] » Good. Good. Oh, my favorite subject,

[15:08] cats.

[15:11] It's not getting any better. People, you

[15:14] got to stop letting people feed them.

[15:18] Now we've got skunks coming up because

[15:20] the food's outside overnight.

[15:23] I got a dog. Do you ever try cleaning a

[15:25] dog that's been skunked?

[15:28] » I don't need that. None of you do.

[15:31] No one in this town does.

[15:34] If the food's out overnight, we can we

[15:37] can enforce that through codes because

[15:39] if if they have a registered colony, the

[15:42] food should not be out overnight.

[15:44] » And this registered colony thing,

[15:46] according to that ordinance, there's all

[15:48] kind of reports are supposed to be made

[15:50] on a yearly basis. Are you guys getting

[15:52] reports

[15:54] on these colonies? No, it's not

[15:58] colonies. It's just every cat from 30

[16:00] blocks around coming to these places.

[16:02] They go from this one to this one to

[16:04] this one. And then they go up on the

[16:06] garage roof and sit there to try and get

[16:08] the birds in the trees.

[16:12] It has got to end. We did not have this

[16:15] problem until they were allowed to feed

[16:18] them. The colonies aren't working. Thank

[16:20] you.

[16:22] » Thank you. Um, next sign up is John

[16:27] Wakefield.

[16:35] Okay. I'm the commander of common

[16:37] American Legion, the

[16:44] » Representing the

[16:48] police department,

[16:49] » The Columbia Police Department for the

[16:51] » Yeah, everything's there for the

[16:54] Columbia

[16:57] Police Department.

[16:59] » All right.

[17:00] » Thank you very much. Mhm.

[17:02] » Can we stand out front here?

[17:06] » I want to get a picture of you. Not a

[17:08] motorcycle.

[17:10] [snorts]

[17:11] [laughter]

[17:15] » Holly, what is the amount?

[17:21] » Thank you so much.

[17:29] » [laughter]

[17:31] [applause]

[17:38] » Thank you very much.

[17:39] » Yes. Thank you. Thank you to the

[17:41] American Legion.

[17:43] » Thank you.

[17:44] » Uh next sign up is Frank Dick.

[17:55] Good good evening [clears throat] you

[17:57] all. Uh

[18:00] I'm a little bit calmed down more since

[18:02] the last council meeting, but uh I want

[18:05] to give you my take on that meeting. I

[18:09] want to tell you about the good, the

[18:10] bad, and the ugly.

[18:13] When I walked into that room, I seen the

[18:17] microphones on the table,

[18:20] the streaming

[18:24] and and the uh

[18:28] the podium with a microphone. And I

[18:32] said, "Boy, things are really turned

[18:34] around." And I was about ready to clap,

[18:37] but I just I thought that is turning

[18:39] things around.

[18:41] uh now as far as the meeting the bottom

[18:45] line council did the right thing

[18:50] uh to vote for it actually that wasn't a

[18:53] true vote council didn't vote their true

[18:56] feelings and we don't know really how it

[18:59] would have went but I'm hearing as of

[19:02] today there's these data sees go data

[19:05] centers going in in Lancaster they're

[19:08] looking at one up where wise was They're

[19:11] going in different places and they're

[19:14] taking workers like from York over to

[19:17] welding shop. I just found out they're

[19:19] taking all their good workers to help

[19:21] build these buildings. So, they're going

[19:24] in, folks. Uh you're not going to stop

[19:26] them. Uh the people at that meeting

[19:30] thought, "Yay, yay. We won." Uh they

[19:33] upset that meeting so bad. They didn't

[19:35] win nothing. You did what you had to do.

[19:39] Now, as far as the meeting, folks, I

[19:43] went to a lot of meetings in my time. It

[19:46] was the worst, I mean, the worst meeting

[19:49] I ever attended.

[19:51] Council,

[19:53] that the B manager,

[19:56] uh, you were there, Holly, the mayor sit

[20:00] there.

[20:02] You did nothing. It's your job to keep

[20:06] the the quorum and everything down. As a

[20:08] matter of fact, this was put out by

[20:12] council says civilry and decorum burough

[20:16] officials and members of the public are

[20:18] expected to conduct themselves with

[20:20] civetry and to accord each other a

[20:24] measurement of dignity and respect.

[20:26] Shouting, foul language, personal

[20:29] insults, threats, attacks, or any

[20:33] conduct of that disrupts the flow of

[20:35] business is out of order.

[20:38] Where were you all at? Was you at a

[20:41] different meeting I was at,

[20:45] » Frank? No, we were all at that same

[20:47] meeting. We all sat up there and we took

[20:49] it. Do you know why

[20:50] » You you were afraid?

[20:52] » No, we were not afraid.

[20:54] » But as council, we act as a body.

[20:58] We don't have indiv we're we're we act

[21:01] as a body. We speak as a body and we are

[21:03] represented by the chair of council.

[21:08] We don't overrun and and go out. We are

[21:13] we are led by a leader and that's you

[21:17] didn't have a leader that night.

[21:19] » Anyone had the right you had the

[21:21] information to end that meeting. You

[21:24] were sitting on your butts doing

[21:26] absolutely nothing.

[21:28] » Robert's rules of order dictate the

[21:30] order of meetings. Robert's rules of

[21:32] order dictate that you can't discuss

[21:35] that that the that the board cannot make

[21:38] have discussions on an agenda item until

[21:40] there's an until there's a motion and a

[21:43] second.

[21:44] » In that in the case of that meeting, the

[21:47] public began speaking before the board

[21:49] was allowed to speak. Had the board been

[21:52] allowed to speak,

[21:54] » We would we would have been able that up

[21:56] and and

[21:57] » The questions the questions that come up

[22:00] to the board could have answered

[22:02] everything right there. That meeting

[22:04] didn't have to be that long. Uh the

[22:06] mayor had a suit on with a tie. Uh

[22:09] Ziggler, you had a suit on with a tie

[22:11] and our solicitor had on. That wasn't

[22:13] right. us sitting in the audience that

[22:16] that was just painful just sitting there

[22:19] and we had to stay to the end to find

[22:22] out. I would have left early but we had

[22:25] we had to end too.

[22:27] » Yes. But you could have ended it.

[22:29] Heather, you know, and I know you're

[22:31] you're talking about the rules. You just

[22:33] don't follow rules all the time. Come

[22:34] on.

[22:35] » I I know.

[22:37] » Uh anyway, it was absolutely terrible.

[22:41] Uh and like I say, you had information.

[22:43] you could have ended it. Uh it didn't

[22:46] have to go that long. Uh

[22:49] two of the people that night, uh the men

[22:52] of the night, uh Kelly and Asen, you

[22:56] spoke up. You tried to get them calmed

[22:58] down. That was every time somebody

[23:01] spoke. Why did you let that go like

[23:04] that?

[23:07] I I mean, it it was just cruel. Um, uh,

[23:12] I noticed Jack didn't say nothing.

[23:14] Barrett didn't say nothing. Council

[23:17] didn't say nothing. It was somebody's

[23:19] job to to

[23:22] orchestrate that to get that to go the

[23:24] right way. The one large cop, uh, I

[23:27] think it's Mr. Solders, he was there. He

[23:29] even walked up in front of the the

[23:32] council waiting for somebody to tell

[23:35] him, "Hey, do your job.

[23:38] Get get these people calmed down.

[23:41] Nobody

[23:43] you you were just afraid. That's just

[23:46] what I seen. Whether you like that or

[23:48] not, I don't know.

[23:49] » With all due respect, sir, it was our

[23:52] position there to listen to the comments

[23:54] of the people that came to that meeting

[23:55] that wish to share them. Just like you

[23:57] come to provide your comments. We don't

[24:00] have the right to stop you or ignore you

[24:02] or disregard what you have to say. And

[24:05] it was our place to listen. And yeah,

[24:07] they were rowdy, but in my opinion, I

[24:10] was there to listen to every comment uh

[24:13] in regards to this extremely important

[24:15] decision.

[24:17] » How do you explain this civic tree and

[24:19] decorum? How do you explain that?

[24:21] » I I guess that's a double-edged sword

[24:24] because not to throw any stones, but

[24:26] like for your phone ringing the entire

[24:28] meeting, I guess that would have fit in.

[24:31] Mhm.

[24:32] » Well, we we used to have, as you well

[24:35] know, the statement about this property

[24:39] decorum and meetings on our agenda. Um,

[24:42] that's one of the improvements that when

[24:44] our council president gets back, I want

[24:46] to talk to him about I want we

[24:48] definitely need to have that put back

[24:49] on. I'm not going to argue with you. It

[24:51] was it was

[24:53] » 14 and a half years on council without

[24:56] compare.

[24:58] Not absolutely

[25:00] 10 times the worst I've ever been at.

[25:03] » Thank you.

[25:03] » I've been council president for four

[25:05] years. I would never appreciate somebody

[25:08] speaking over me or trying to overrun me

[25:10] while I was running a meeting. I'm not

[25:11] saying it was run well, properly,

[25:13] whatever. I'm not saying that

[25:15] suggestions were made. Some were taken.

[25:18] Some weren't. And how I handled it was

[25:21] when my came my turn came to speak, you

[25:23] hear what I said. I said, I sat here and

[25:26] listened to you politely. You're going

[25:27] to sit there and be quiet for me or I'm

[25:29] I can sit here till one o'clock waiting

[25:32] for you to be quiet so I can speak. I'm

[25:33] not going to compete.

[25:34] » But Kelly, not in that manner. Not in

[25:37] that manner. Nobody.

[25:39] Believe me, what I seen,

[25:41] » Honestly, if I was president, it would

[25:43] have been handled differently, but I'm

[25:44] not.

[25:45] » Right.

[25:46] » But I think any of you are sitting up

[25:48] there and you see something like that,

[25:51] you bring the police out, you have them

[25:53] there, but you don't use them. They

[25:55] could have they could have squashed this

[25:57] immediately and then you also could have

[26:00] by by bringing out the results. So that

[26:02] don't don't tell me that you you're

[26:04] following the rules all the time because

[26:06] we sit here we see what's going on. Uh

[26:10] here's another issue. How did you know

[26:13] there was no no u

[26:16] weapons in that audience?

[26:19] Did you think to ever check anybody?

[26:24] I'm not picking on you co I'm talking

[26:26] you council as you're not saying

[26:27] anything that wasn't said

[26:28] » That was an ideal situation for us

[26:30] » Not saying anything that wasn't said

[26:31] » It was it was just terrible

[26:33] » And honestly Frank the

[26:38] the reason we've flagged and sharing the

[26:41] number of people in that room

[26:44] the reason that we said at that point it

[26:48] needed we needed to pair down the crowd

[26:51] it wasn't just the sheer number. But

[26:54] when people stood at that podium and

[26:56] started inciting the mob mentality to

[26:59] come out

[27:00] » Yeah.

[27:01] » It got unsafe.

[27:03] » Yeah.

[27:03] » And that's when I worried about weapons

[27:06] and this and and physical harm. It

[27:09] wasn't just the sheer number. It was

[27:11] about the behavior of the people

[27:13] speaking, the behavior of the crowd then

[27:16] yelling and, you know, getting everyone

[27:19] riled up. Not not only that, Heather,

[27:22] they degraded council. They didn't

[27:25] respect council whatsoever. The mayor,

[27:28] chief, the mer manager. That's what teed

[27:30] me off. They they took over the meeting.

[27:32] They controlled the meeting and that's

[27:34] what teed me off. I still felt that the

[27:38] council, the mayor, whoever, uh uh the

[27:42] police chief, whatever, they could have

[27:45] done something about that. And nobody

[27:47] did nothing. And that's what had me so

[27:50] burned up. I had

[27:51] » You see they had pizza delivered?

[27:53] » I

[27:54] » They were passing out pizza in the

[27:55] middle of the meeting. Yep.

[27:57] » Walking between the speaker and the

[27:58] board.

[27:59] » Well, I would hope

[28:01] » That's the pinnacle of respect.

[28:02] » I would hope Colombia would never go

[28:05] through this again. The Burough Council,

[28:08] I had a lot of comments. They sit down,

[28:10] had a lot of talks. Uh uh now they're

[28:14] coming out and and uh saying well uh a

[28:18] sleazy mayor and his seven dwarfs could

[28:22] have did something at that meeting in

[28:24] the end. But these are people that

[28:25] wasn't even there that brought this

[28:28] stuff up. Now they're labeling council

[28:30] because they let this stuff go.

[28:33] » Frank Gan and I are up at the PSAB

[28:35] conference this week. We we're up there

[28:38] every day.

[28:40] » Jean and I

[28:40] » Oh, okay. And uh I had no less than five

[28:44] people come up to me so far and say they

[28:48] either read the stories,

[28:52] heard the stories or saw a video came

[28:55] across their Facebook feed

[28:57] and they were from across the state

[29:01] and they wanted to know the story. So,

[29:03] no, it was not a good look for Colombia.

[29:07] » And and I just felt

[29:09] you being in power had the authority to

[29:13] stop that and you just sat on it. And

[29:16] then uh it even come out about the mayor

[29:19] being uh in office 25 years. Apparently,

[29:24] he didn't learn nothing because I'm sure

[29:25] he could have stood up and made a big

[29:27] difference if he if he thought to do so.

[29:31] » No, hold on, Frank. Go ahead.

[29:33] » U,

[29:35] the chief and I talked prior to the

[29:38] meeting that day and we had officers

[29:43] were stationed at certain places. If you

[29:46] saw the chief was on one end of the of

[29:49] the table, I was on the other end of the

[29:51] table.

[29:54] We we made it known that if

[29:59] and I don't want to throw anybody under

[30:00] the bus, but if we were if we were

[30:04] looked at and given the nod, we were

[30:07] going to act. We had several people in

[30:10] that audience targeted

[30:13] that they were w officers were watching

[30:16] and if there had been one false move,

[30:18] they had been out of there. So, we were

[30:20] the department was sitting there ready

[30:22] to act

[30:25] but didn't get the go-ahad and I don't

[30:27] have the authority to do that at that

[30:30] meeting as much as I would have loved

[30:32] to.

[30:34] I I left it up to the council council's

[30:37] meeting.

[30:38] We didn't get the call so we didn't act.

[30:40] But believe me, every one of those

[30:44] officers in there that night were poised

[30:47] and ready to act.

[30:49] And all they needed was the nod.

[30:51] » Well, [clears throat] there was one

[30:53] » I'll agree with you. It was terrible. It

[30:55] was terrible.

[30:55] » There was one officer out there. I never

[30:57] seen him before and I don't know if he

[30:59] was from Hempfield or somewhere else,

[31:00] but he told me who all the groups were,

[31:03] where they were from, and they were

[31:04] congregating outside, and I really

[31:07] appreciated that. But he said, "You

[31:08] better get in there, you won't get a

[31:10] seat." And well, my good friend here

[31:12] saved me one. But still, I I I just

[31:15] hated that that they degraded council. I

[31:19] try to respect you as much as I can. But

[31:22] there's times that that I just can't.

[31:25] But but uh

[31:26] » Frank, I give you credit for what you

[31:28] did at the meeting. Um you know, we've

[31:31] had our differences over the years.

[31:33] Yeah. Not just I mean personal, but

[31:35] council. And to give you credit, I'm not

[31:38] going to mention anybody's name.

[31:40] Somebody in this in this burrow came up

[31:42] to me and said, "Boy, you know, it's a

[31:44] rough a rough meeting when Frank Dick is

[31:47] sitting there and he is the voice of

[31:49] reason in the middle of a meeting."

[31:51] » Well,

[31:52] » Wow.

[31:52] » I I just I tried to be respectful. I

[31:55] just

[31:57] I was sitting there, too, but believe

[31:59] me, if I would have been sitting there

[32:01] that night, uh Eric Kaufman probably

[32:03] would have resigned the next day because

[32:06] I I would have chewed him out bad. Uh,

[32:09] and I still think he ought to resign for

[32:11] not just sitting there with his hands.

[32:13] You had the fivem minute break. And I

[32:15] said, Eric, you've got to do something

[32:17] about this. Well, he says, "We're going

[32:19] to sweat them out."

[32:21] You're not sweating them. You're

[32:22] sweating all of us out. You're you're

[32:24] you're making all of us.

[32:27] » Yes. That's what he said. And And

[32:30] believe me, it's just I'll never forget

[32:32] that meeting. And I don't know what

[32:33] yours are going to do at the next

[32:35] meeting that they have, but uh but also

[32:39] I'm hearing that they're putting these

[32:40] data centers in all over. And I agree

[32:43] you you did the right thing at that

[32:44] meeting. Uh

[32:47] » I'll get off of that subject. I just got

[32:49] one other thing here. What is being done

[32:52] with the tow truck ordinance that we

[32:55] have? It's my understanding that

[32:58] over the years it was supposed to be

[33:02] as one uh gets called at night. Now they

[33:06] they rotate. There was three of them

[33:08] that rotated. Is this still going on?

[33:13] » Frank, you keep bringing this up and I

[33:15] don't I don't think anyone has actually

[33:18] » Address this, but this is not an

[33:20] ordinance.

[33:20] » It's not an ordinance. This is this is a

[33:23] operational matter and and and it's not

[33:26] under the purview of of council. I mean

[33:30] this is one of those one of those

[33:32] non-legislative things that we delegate

[33:35] to the manager to the police department

[33:38] for operational procedures.

[33:39] » But Heather council or the mayor not the

[33:42] mayor council or the police department

[33:45] has been running this and controlling

[33:47] this.

[33:49] So if it's not in orders, they shouldn't

[33:51] be doing this. Then

[33:52] » This police department,

[33:53] » The council has not been

[33:54] » Council has nothing to do with this. And

[33:56] the police department when they they

[33:58] have a policy, they have a procedure for

[34:00] when they need to call a tow truck

[34:03] » And that is handled strictly by the

[34:06] police department.

[34:08] That that's not in our perview.

[34:10] » For year for years, we you're absolutely

[34:13] right. for years and and up until unless

[34:16] it changed and I wasn't aware of it. The

[34:19] officers

[34:21] picked like one, two, three, one, two,

[34:23] three that that way. Uh I went through

[34:26] this several times with Glen Keller over

[34:29] the years and what would happen is if

[34:31] someone gets called and they don't

[34:33] respond, they lose their turn until it

[34:36] goes comes back around again.

[34:39] The department is in the process of

[34:42] putting that that policy in place. One

[34:46] of the problems we have that we didn't

[34:48] act on it right away, but it is in place

[34:51] right now. But in order to act enact the

[34:54] policy because the department is going

[34:57] through

[34:58] uh certification

[35:01] it has to be the policy has to be

[35:04] written sent to the certification group

[35:07] and they have to approve it and then

[35:10] comes back to us and and is enacted. So

[35:12] it's a matter of it's not just us

[35:14] creating policy and putting it in place.

[35:16] Although in the interim, we're still

[35:18] going to one, two, three. One of the one

[35:21] of the sticking points right now is

[35:25] how do how do you do it? Do you set it

[35:27] up by the week, by the month, or by the

[35:30] day? Okay. And we're talking with the

[35:33] the chief is talking with the officers.

[35:35] What is the best way for them to

[35:37] implement this? Do they want to do it

[35:39] weekly, monthly, or whatever? But it has

[35:42] to go to certification and come back.

[35:45] The other part of that that people don't

[35:47] realize is if you're involved in an

[35:50] accident and your vehicle must be towed,

[35:54] you have the right to call any tower

[35:57] that you want. So so many times when

[36:00] other towers see other groups

[36:04] make making the tow, they just assume

[36:06] that the that the police department did

[36:08] that. And many times it isn't. the the

[36:12] individual who owns the car said, "No, I

[36:14] want XYZ to pick my vehicle up." Just

[36:18] like me, if if I was involved in an

[36:20] accident and I get my work done, say at

[36:23] at at Apple, I would say, "No, call

[36:26] Apple, have them come pick it up because

[36:27] I don't want to pay a tow bill

[36:29] » To tow it somewhere and then have to tow

[36:31] it somewhere else to be fixed."

[36:34] » And also insurance companies. Yeah. Like

[36:36] someone calls State Farm and they say,

[36:38] "Oh, I need roadside assistance because

[36:40] I wrecked my car." State Farm is going

[36:42] to call whoever State Farm is going to

[36:44] call it.

[36:45] » So 3A's,

[36:46] » Right? And AAA is the same thing.

[36:47] » So it's it's a it's weird, but we will

[36:51] have a policy that says this is who's

[36:53] called whatever day or week,

[36:57] first, second, third.

[37:00] » I think they all want this. They all

[37:02] want a policy. of the the ones that I

[37:05] talked to. I didn't talk to all of them,

[37:06] » But they they all want a policy and

[37:09] there's a lot connected to that. Uh uh

[37:12] maybe you want maybe you want to call

[37:14] the Ford garage to come pick your car

[37:15] up. Well, that could be an extra hour or

[37:17] something like that. And if the cars in

[37:19] the center of the road or whatever,

[37:20] there's so many issues. This was why we

[37:23] wanted to sit down with council, get

[37:25] them all here, find out their their

[37:28] issues. But how are you going to do

[37:30] that? You're going to do it like it was

[37:32] done. What was the guy's name across

[37:34] from Savemore up on the hill? I did that

[37:37] for years.

[37:38] » Jeff. Jeff.

[37:39] » Jeff.

[37:40] » Jeff. Jeff. Yeah. My understanding he

[37:43] got mostly all the towing. And I guess

[37:45] that's where color from then,

[37:47] » You know.

[37:48] » Yeah.

[37:50] » But Glenn,

[37:52] got him.

[37:54] » Glenn would only take the calls he

[37:56] wanted.

[37:57] » And then he say, I I I'm not getting any

[37:59] calls. Well, after a while, I guess

[38:01] people got tired of calling calling

[38:03] Glenn. And then there again, Jeff had to

[38:05] body shop and Glenn wasn't doing the

[38:08] body work anymore. So,

[38:11] you know, what do you do? You get you

[38:13] get uh the body shop to pick it up

[38:15] because that's where it's going to end

[38:17] up.

[38:18] » Yeah. Well,

[38:19] » It's it's not an easy thing, but we're

[38:21] going to set the policy and it won't be

[38:24] it won't be perfect because of all the

[38:26] other implications to it.

[38:29] » But but Leo, how do you do that without

[38:31] getting their take? How do you come up

[38:34] with all this information where truly my

[38:38] gut feeling is this has been done wrong

[38:40] all the time it's been done. And how do

[38:43] you do that with not having the people

[38:45] here? How how much different is it to do

[38:48] one two three or whatever? You can't you

[38:50] can't make it any different.

[38:53] » Well, but if you got them here, you'll

[38:55] find out why maybe number one was called

[38:58] more than number two when you find out

[39:01] when they're padded little extra dollars

[39:04] here and there.

[39:05] » I'm sure there'll be well because of the

[39:06] certification they'll be recordeping.

[39:09] that that's part of accreditation is the

[39:11] documentation of who's being called when

[39:14] by what officer and a lot goes into it

[39:17] like the mayor said um they have to have

[39:19] certain insurance everything has to be

[39:20] state regulated so and we're looking at

[39:23] within three to five miles you know we

[39:25] don't want citizens having to travel 10

[39:26] miles outside the burrow to get their

[39:28] car so there's a lot of moving parts and

[39:30] like I said everything that we do now

[39:32] moving forward has to go through the

[39:34] accreditation company and then it comes

[39:36] back to us none of them do it So

[39:39] » This group you said Leo, you get all the

[39:42] information together. You have to send

[39:43] it to this group and then they approve

[39:44] it or whatever they do. Who is this

[39:46] group?

[39:47] » It's it's it's an accreditation company.

[39:49] » It's called Aspire [cough] Aspiring

[39:51] [clears throat]

[39:52] Consulting.

[39:53] » Excuse me.

[39:54] » They they they

[39:56] do the accreditation to for police

[40:00] departments in Pennsylvania to be listed

[40:03] as a a certified police department.

[40:06] » Okay. I I just never heard of that.

[40:08] » Yeah, it's a lot of record people.

[40:10] » Thanks for listening.

[40:12] » Great. Is there anyone else that did not

[40:14] sign up that would like to speak? Yes,

[40:16] Scott.

[40:21] » Scott Frederick.

[40:23] um to address some of your points.

[40:27] Frank, I am your bud, but I respectfully

[40:31] disagree

[40:33] in the respect that

[40:36] council doesn't deserve to be blasted

[40:38] like they

[40:41] just were. In my opinion,

[40:44] it was an extremely emotionally charged

[40:47] meeting. You showed a lot of restraint.

[40:52] I thought when that one girl was

[40:55] dropping the fbomb, I kind of tuned her

[40:58] out at that point,

[41:01] but

[41:03] and then another girl talked for 11

[41:05] minutes. I mean, I kept looking at Eric

[41:08] going,

[41:09] I mean, come on. I mean, it's supposed

[41:11] to be 10, right? Is that my

[41:13] understanding? Five. I thought we upped

[41:15] that till 10.

[41:16] » It's 10. It's 10, but basically, there's

[41:19] no time limit,

[41:20] » Right? It's five and then you can ask

[41:21] for another 10 minutes and get it. Um, I

[41:24] thought you guys showed a lot of

[41:26] restraint,

[41:27] the

[41:31] abuse, if we want to call it that,

[41:34] toward council and

[41:36] the representatives.

[41:40] Although I thought it got out of hand at

[41:42] sometimes at some points,

[41:46] I can honestly say that I can understand

[41:50] it and it was warranted to a certain

[41:52] degree.

[41:56] councils in the past.

[42:01] Like it or not, this council is taking

[42:05] the brunt for prior councils that have

[42:11] disregarded citizen comments.

[42:15] If they'd be taken to heart, that

[42:18] property wouldn't even been bought

[42:19] because it was overwhelmingly do not buy

[42:23] it when it was bought. And we have some

[42:26] people that really pushed it through and

[42:28] it seemed like it was pushed through

[42:31] during the middle of the night.

[42:33] Um,

[42:36] honestly, I don't think again you guys

[42:40] you showed a lot of restraint.

[42:42] Kelly, I commend you

[42:45] because at times, yes, people shut up

[42:49] and listen to what the speaker is

[42:52] saying. It got out of hand a little bit,

[42:55] but because it was such an emotionally

[42:57] charged thing,

[43:00] you got to give the citizens, Frank

[43:03] said, they were out of control. We are

[43:08] they.

[43:09] So, they were conveying to council what

[43:15] our thoughts were and it needs to be

[43:18] taken to heart. It needs to be taken to

[43:21] heart because we are the taxpayer. We

[43:24] are the ones that are footing the bill.

[43:27] You've gota You guys

[43:31] have been entrusted by votes to make a

[43:35] determination,

[43:36] but you can't disregard your

[43:38] constituents

[43:40] and it has to be open and it has to be a

[43:44] very clear process.

[43:46] » I'd just like to respond to that. I mean

[43:48] I more and there's a lot of people on

[43:51] council here sitting here that have been

[43:52] on council. I've been on council for 14

[43:54] and a half years. I have worked with

[43:57] people from Mike Bury and Vern Dets on

[44:00] up to the current council. So a lot of

[44:02] different personalities, a lot of

[44:03] different viewpoints, etc., etc. I have

[44:06] never worked with a council that just

[44:08] said the hell with it. We'll just

[44:10] disregard what they say. What the public

[44:13] says has always influenced

[44:16] decisions that are made. Always, not

[44:18] sometimes, always. And I will tell you

[44:21] this much too,

[44:23] how bad that meeting was. You wonder why

[44:26] you can't get anybody decent in this

[44:29] town to run for council to fill some of

[44:32] these vacancies or even volunteer their

[44:34] time for these boards. Why in God's name

[44:37] would you want to submit yourself to

[44:39] crap like that? Why? You'd have to be

[44:42] insane. My wife tell me all the time,

[44:43] you've got to be crazy. You're going to

[44:45] be 16 years until you're done. Why? I

[44:48] said because I want to see the town

[44:50] better. You people don't believe that. I

[44:52] don't care.

[44:53] » Well, my wife

[44:54] » Can't help it.

[44:54] » My wife has suggested that I run for

[44:57] council.

[44:58] I say, and I've told Ethan,

[45:00] » Get thick skin. Start rubbing lemon on

[45:02] it right now.

[45:03] » Well, no. I have a thick skin cuz I

[45:06] don't care.

[45:06] » I'm Irish.

[45:07] » I don't care what people think about me.

[45:11] But my take is people don't want to hear

[45:13] the truth. And if you are full and you

[45:17] are right in their face and you tell

[45:19] them what you know to be true with the

[45:24] information that you have at hand,

[45:27] people don't want to hear it.

[45:29] » And

[45:30] » I'm one of these. You know what? you can

[45:33] go ddle yourself in the next room

[45:34] because I don't care what you think as

[45:37] long as I know in my heart of hearts

[45:41] what is right, what is just and what is

[45:44] fair to everybody.

[45:48] That's most important thing. Um,

[45:53] I was going to make one other comment,

[45:55] but it

[45:59] it went. So, uh, thank you for

[46:03] listening. I just had to get up and

[46:05] address some of the points that Frank

[46:07] made. Honestly, I think you guys did

[46:10] pretty darn well. I thought yes, it was

[46:13] a very high charge thing and oh, as far

[46:17] as the AI centers going up all over, let

[46:21] them go up all over. We can't take it

[46:24] here in this town. We shouldn't take it.

[46:28] Thank you.

[46:30] » One thing I'd like to I'd like to say,

[46:31] Scott, yes. Is

[46:33] » You know, everyone

[46:36] I I often hear what you said about you

[46:38] don't listen to the people. Well,

[46:42] there's always multiple sides

[46:45] » To the issue

[46:48] » And no matter what decision is made,

[46:51] it's always going to be

[46:55] against what someone believes.

[46:56] » Yeah. You can't please all the people

[46:58] all the time. So, please.

[46:59] » So,

[47:01] you say people were overwhelmingly

[47:03] against

[47:05] » The purchase,

[47:06] » Whatever.

[47:08] However,

[47:09] » And the

[47:10] » We go by

[47:13] » The people that are coming to officially

[47:17] address us and also that we unofficially

[47:19] see in our daily lives.

[47:21] » Absolutely.

[47:24] » And I can honestly say when I sat here

[47:27] and voted for that purchase because Eric

[47:30] and I are the two that were here that

[47:32] that

[47:33] » I didn't name you. I didn't name you,

[47:34] but I said there were two. I know you

[47:36] want

[47:36] » I have some discretion.

[47:38] » But you know what?

[47:40] When we were sitting here making that

[47:42] decision,

[47:43] the majority of of the feedback we were

[47:46] hearing at the time was yes, we want a

[47:50] vehicle for economic development. We

[47:54] want something to happen that is going

[47:56] to expand our tax base and this is the

[47:59] this is the way to do it. And that is

[48:02] the feedback we heard. I'm not I'm not

[48:05] listening to the people that have the

[48:06] mom mentality on Facebook,

[48:08] » Right?

[48:09] » I'm not listening there. So, if that's

[48:10] where you're saying that's where the

[48:12] people are talking,

[48:13] » That they're keyboard warriors in my

[48:15] mind. Come and talk to me officially.

[48:18] Well, I was at the meetings during that

[48:20] time of the purchase.

[48:23] And

[48:28] I'm not going to ask you individually,

[48:30] the members of council, what they think,

[48:32] but when I spoke last week,

[48:37] I've always always always been a

[48:39] proponent of this. No municipality

[48:42] should own a forprofit

[48:45] property.

[48:47] If you're using it for municipal use,

[48:50] great. But if you're using it with the

[48:54] intent to make money off of it, that's a

[48:57] conflict of interest because you're

[48:58] making the ordinances and the provisions

[49:01] that that property owner has to abide

[49:03] by. I don't think that's fair. I don't

[49:06] think that's right. And I never will.

[49:09] » Give me speak to that. Go ahead.

[49:13] » The bureau bought the property.

[49:16] Okay?

[49:18] Not to make money off of, but to control

[49:21] what went there. If the burrow would

[49:24] not, if someone else would have bought

[49:26] that property,

[49:28] you could have had housing in there. You

[49:31] could have had uh factories in there,

[49:33] warehouses,

[49:35] the data center, and all. You could have

[49:37] had that whole myriad of oper people

[49:40] could have put it in there by by the

[49:43] burrow owning it and selling it the way

[49:46] they did. They had some control

[49:50] » And never sold it. May there

[49:52] » You never sold the property.

[49:55] » What? I don't know what you're saying.

[49:56] » You said when we had it and we sold it.

[50:00] » No. No. When

[50:03] when we purchased the property I may

[50:05] have missed. When we purchased the

[50:06] property, we had control, okay, over who

[50:10] bought it and what they bought it for,

[50:14] okay? Someone could have bought that

[50:17] from the family and put a data center in

[50:19] there. They could have put a warehouse

[50:22] in there, anything that fit within that

[50:24] zoning at that time. They could have put

[50:26] it all in there. And we said, "We don't

[50:28] want to take that gamble and have

[50:30] something in there that's not going to

[50:32] be conducive to the community. So, we're

[50:35] going to buy it

[50:37] and then we'll sell it and then we'll

[50:41] have the right by being to selling it.

[50:43] We have that right to find out what is

[50:46] going to go in there. And as you saw,

[50:48] the planning commission changed the

[50:51] zoning

[50:52] and and only allowed certain things

[50:56] within that district so that they the

[50:58] bureau can control what's going to

[51:00] happen there.

[51:02] If if the bureau didn't own it and

[51:05] someone bought it, they could have done

[51:06] whatever zoning would have allowed.

[51:09] » Zoning, which we council,

[51:12] » Right,

[51:13] » Controls. And and with that with that

[51:15] whole thing, here's one of the most

[51:17] important things that came out last week

[51:20] that has to come out and has to be done

[51:23] before anything is this is me speaking

[51:25] now. Before anything's done with that

[51:28] property,

[51:30] one of the first things that has to

[51:31] happen is

[51:35] there needs to be for data centers.

[51:38] Let's pick on data centers, okay? not

[51:40] other for data centers there has to be a

[51:44] text amendment that says you can do this

[51:47] this this and this and you can't do

[51:49] other things there are certain things

[51:51] you can't do that has to happen because

[51:54] data centers are coming and I don't know

[51:56] if we'll ever put a data center there

[51:58] that's that's up to the bureau and

[51:59] whoever but regardless

[52:03] you know someone could come in and offer

[52:06] the burrow

[52:08] $6 million for

[52:10] and say, "Well, we're going to hold it

[52:12] and we'll see what we're going to do

[52:13] with it." Okay. They could turn around

[52:16] the next day and put a data center in.

[52:19] » Not if it's against the zoning.

[52:21] » That's No, that it's it's allowed. It's

[52:24] It's allowed

[52:25] » Because just last year you guys put it

[52:27] in that it is allowed.

[52:29] » It has to be.

[52:29] » Take it out.

[52:30] » It has to be allowed somewhere in the

[52:32] municipality. By law,

[52:33] » It doesn't

[52:36] has to be allowed in Columbia Burrow.

[52:39] » Any really

[52:41] » In in in state law, your zoning

[52:44] ordinance must allow for every possible

[52:47] use. If it does not, you run the risk of

[52:51] being taken to court and you can they

[52:54] can declare that you are being

[52:56] exclusionary. In which case they would

[52:58] offer a curative amendment meaning the

[53:02] court would tell you how you have to

[53:04] change your zoning ordinance

[53:06] » And the court would say you have to

[53:08] allow it.

[53:08] » Yes,

[53:09] » That's the statement.

[53:10] » You have to allow the possibility of it.

[53:13] » You can put it anywhere.

[53:15] » Yes, you can put it anywhere.

[53:16] » The possibility of it, but you guys

[53:21] » In effect vote on it. But if we do not

[53:24] have it in the zoning ordinance,

[53:26] » If we don't have it in the zoning

[53:28] ordinance,

[53:29] » There's no vote.

[53:30] » Then there's there's no vote for it. It

[53:32] can go anywhere because the court says

[53:34] it can.

[53:37] » That's the way it works.

[53:39] » Yeah. There's some other businesses over

[53:41] the years that we took that same route

[53:43] to to tell them where they couldn't

[53:45] couldn't be, shall we say? You know what

[53:47] I'm talking about?

[53:48] » Yep.

[53:49] » Okay. Okay. So yeah, the state law is is

[53:53] very clear and that's why that's why

[53:56] municipalities are trying very hard to

[53:59] get the ordinances in place because you

[54:04] can't just tell someone, "No, you can't

[54:06] locate that here because all it's going

[54:08] to take is couple couple of people going

[54:12] to court. Now your municipality is

[54:14] spending a whole lot of money on

[54:16] solicitor cost and you're fighting

[54:18] against state law.

[54:22] You can't say you're not allowed to do

[54:25] that here.

[54:26] » Okay. We'll just say no. Whenever

[54:27] anybody says that they want to put an AI

[54:29] center out there, I think everybody

[54:31] knows that it would be catastrophic for

[54:33] our environment.

[54:34] » If we own it, we can do that

[54:38] » And that's the case now

[54:39] » And that's why we bought it.

[54:43] I don't agree with that decision, but

[54:44] okay, there might be some upside to it

[54:47] in that case.

[54:48] » But keep in mind what Colombia Burough

[54:52] has said last week. That's all I ask.

[54:55] » You know, if you put just one one side

[54:57] note,

[54:58] » If you were to put residential housing

[55:00] in there [snorts] in the back part, the

[55:03] back part probably meets the one mile

[55:06] threshold that Columbia Burough School

[55:09] District would have to bus every student

[55:10] in Columbia. Yep.

[55:12] » So that's that was another one why we

[55:14] didn't want housing in there.

[55:25] » No, but the issue there, Frank, you

[55:27] can't is is the majority of those

[55:30] retirement communities are nonprofit and

[55:32] the whole point of that pro of that of

[55:34] getting that parcel was to expand the

[55:36] tax base.

[55:40] No, Frank, I would consider as long as

[55:42] it's forward.

[55:43] » Yeah.

[55:44] » Absolutely.

[55:44] » No, it was not.

[55:46] » And pilots for

[55:48] » Hello everyone. My name is Damian. Um I

[55:50] live here in Colombia. I spoke with the

[55:53] mayor last week about the data center.

[55:55] » Damian, can you give your last name just

[55:56] we have it for the record?

[55:57] » It's Damen Bar. Uh I've been living in

[56:00] Plain Street uh since COVID. I bought my

[56:03] house during COVID. Thank god I didn't

[56:05] buy it now. Uh but anyway, uh some of

[56:09] the things that have been brought up is

[56:11] there is possible ways that we could

[56:14] restrict the data center even though

[56:16] it's against state law, right? And

[56:19] that's our up to our state

[56:20] representatives that they want to put in

[56:22] a momentum to stop the data centers,

[56:25] which be frank, they probably will never

[56:28] do that. Um, I have some burrow

[56:31] ordinances and some tax amendments if

[56:33] you'd like to look over them. It's puts

[56:37] a tax on anything that they produce, you

[56:41] know, restricts them using our

[56:43] electrical grid. Um, if they use a

[56:45] certain percentage over the normal use

[56:47] of a warehouse or regular house, there

[56:50] are taxed, you know, for every 1% it

[56:52] would be 5%. So, it would be like a

[56:55] rebate. Those are some of the things you

[56:57] can do legally to prevent possibly

[57:00] prevent a data center from going in. Um

[57:04] I spoke to I work two jobs. You know, I

[57:07] work 17 hours a day. Usually I'm tired.

[57:10] Um but when I was able to talk to

[57:13] citizens for an hour, just going around

[57:16] asking them what they thought, out of

[57:19] the hundred people that I was able to

[57:20] talk to in an hour, all of them said

[57:22] they didn't want a data center.

[57:25] So, how many people is that in an hour?

[57:28] Significant amount of people.

[57:31] » So, that that's just being said. Um, you

[57:35] know, kids in my generation don't want

[57:36] to come up and say anything because they

[57:39] feel like they have no voice. We've been

[57:41] taught we have no voice. You know,

[57:43] whether that be from our parents or

[57:45] media. Um, I think it's my job to start

[57:49] getting involved. I didn't even know

[57:51] about the meeting until I saw it on

[57:54] Facebook.

[57:55] » Um maybe there's a way that we could,

[57:57] you know, bring it to younger

[57:59] generations eyes a little bit better,

[58:02] you know, and there is

[58:06] a problem with how people act, but

[58:09] that's been that way since co people

[58:12] can't handle their emotions properly

[58:14] anymore. And that's sad. It is, but

[58:17] there's nothing we can really change

[58:20] honestly. So, that's something I have

[58:23] brought up. And if the mayor would like

[58:25] to see those copies, I have them.

[58:27] » Yes, I I I'll be glad to have a bunch of

[58:29] matter of fact,

[58:30] » If you read the

[58:34] » Bills

[58:35] » That were put forth at the legislature.

[58:38] It's just about it. They touch on every

[58:40] one of the things you're saying, but

[58:42] that's what I was saying just before you

[58:43] spoke. It is it's imperative that this

[58:47] council puts together that text

[58:49] amendment saying this is what you can do

[58:53] and then that's the list. So anybody

[58:55] coming in here to do this is what you

[58:58] can do. The only bill in that whole

[59:01] package of bills that stands a chance of

[59:04] passing, we were talking about this

[59:05] before the meeting. The only one that

[59:08] stands a chance of meeting of of passing

[59:10] is there's a bill that says that directs

[59:14] Department of Community and Economic

[59:15] Development to to come up with a model

[59:19] ordinance listing all these

[59:23] things that you can't have, you can't

[59:26] do. Uh so that municipalities can use

[59:30] that model ordinance. There's a lot of

[59:32] small municipalities that can't afford

[59:35] the money that it takes to create that.

[59:38] Some of them don't even have zoning to

[59:40] create all that. And that's some of the

[59:42] places they're picking on with the data

[59:44] centers. So, that could pass, but the

[59:48] other ones won't pass. I'm I'm almost

[59:51] willing to say I'll bet you they won't

[59:53] pass because

[59:55] the state legislature doesn't want to

[59:58] create rules that the municipalities

[1:00:02] have to go by. They would rather see the

[1:00:04] municipality

[1:00:06] do its own create its own rules. And I

[1:00:09] agree with that.

[1:00:11] So, you know, now the governor came out

[1:00:14] and he had some some things in the paper

[1:00:17] and he had some rules and regulations,

[1:00:19] but everybody forgot to read the part

[1:00:21] the fine print on it is if you want

[1:00:24] their money,

[1:00:26] » You will meet these this criteria.

[1:00:28] » So, it wasn't for all of us. It was if

[1:00:31] you're after our money, you'll meet this

[1:00:33] criteria. But this is good stuff and

[1:00:35] this, you know, we'll get this over to

[1:00:37] council and all and a lot of this needs

[1:00:40] to be put into that text amendment.

[1:00:42] » I did that on the three hours I have

[1:00:44] available.

[1:00:46] » You got to sleep sometime.

[1:00:49] [laughter]

[1:00:51] » And now school's out.

[1:00:55] » Oh, okay. I will mention that last week

[1:00:57] in the packet uh the ordinance that we

[1:01:00] moved past is exactly what you're

[1:01:02] talking about of a way to restrict what

[1:01:04] data centers can and can't do. That was

[1:01:06] compiled by the solicitor mostly just

[1:01:08] grabbing ordinances from nearby areas.

[1:01:11] So it's not comprehensive and it is not

[1:01:13] in a state that we were going to vote on

[1:01:15] it. It was just a discussion item. Um,

[1:01:18] but you can bet that we are going to

[1:01:21] work to get that to be as strict as

[1:01:23] possible and that in the case that a

[1:01:26] data center does build somewhere in

[1:01:29] Colombia because we have to allow it

[1:01:30] somewhere. Um, it is as restrictive as

[1:01:34] possible to minimize any sort of effects

[1:01:36] uh on any citizens.

[1:01:39] » Yeah. Um there's taxes that the burial

[1:01:46] tax

[1:01:48] but then five six years down the road to

[1:01:52] the citizens to then pay for

[1:01:55] » The area.

[1:01:56] » Yeah.

[1:01:58] So in that you're able to test AI

[1:02:02] producing whatever storage whatever

[1:02:06] just like we're working

[1:02:09] in the warehouse but we don't really

[1:02:11] produce anything

[1:02:13] you know what I'm saying

[1:02:14] » Yeah 100%

[1:02:20] yeah and as we have that discussion

[1:02:21] that'll be something that publicly we

[1:02:23] talk about for sure and there will be

[1:02:25] plenty of chance for us to get feedback

[1:02:27] back on that through the process. Um

[1:02:29] just hoping to get it passed sooner

[1:02:32] rather than later.

[1:02:33] » Yeah. One of, you know, I don't want to

[1:02:34] drag a state on other things to do, but

[1:02:37] uh one of one of the things that I see

[1:02:40] mentioned quite quite a bit is

[1:02:44] any electricity they use will not cause

[1:02:49] residential electricity rates to rise.

[1:02:53] So that that's one that's in just about

[1:02:55] every one of the bills I've seen. You

[1:02:57] know,

[1:02:58] » Most of them require bring your own

[1:02:59] power.

[1:03:00] » Yeah. And and to build

[1:03:02] » And one thing you got to understand,

[1:03:03] these data centers are evolving.

[1:03:06] Most of them are running uh water

[1:03:09] systems that are closed looped. They're

[1:03:11] not drawing water out of the river or

[1:03:13] anything like that.

[1:03:14] » Some don't even use water.

[1:03:16] » Yeah. And or and they're also generating

[1:03:19] their own electric.

[1:03:21] not

[1:03:23] » And I I talked to a gentleman who's in

[1:03:25] this this field and he said the new the

[1:03:29] new generation of data centers

[1:03:34] what was proposed out there is like a

[1:03:36] mini

[1:03:37] » Wouldn't use very much of anything that

[1:03:40] that a lot of discussions

[1:03:44] » Yeah it's it's a like I say it's a very

[1:03:46] supercharged

[1:03:48] uh discussion and and you know the

[1:03:50] people that live out manner in that end

[1:03:52] of town you are fortunate that you know

[1:03:56] they they had this process ahead of time

[1:03:58] I mean when I was doing my you know like

[1:03:59] I said dude doing my research talking to

[1:04:01] people all over town same way and I got

[1:04:04] responses the other way okay well I

[1:04:06] understand their concern but gez how do

[1:04:09] you think I feel living next to a

[1:04:10] certain foundry and I have to smell that

[1:04:12] all night long or I live this other one

[1:04:14] and that's just as bad or and I'm not

[1:04:17] I'm only here since 2002 so it didn't

[1:04:19] affect me but they're like oh geez And

[1:04:20] what about all of us that live on when

[1:04:23] they put Route 30 through there? You

[1:04:25] know, all the people that got their

[1:04:26] homes taken from them and displaced and

[1:04:28] now everybody lives out there listens to

[1:04:30] the drone of a of a highway all night

[1:04:32] long. So, I mean, everyone needs to

[1:04:34] understand it's it's

[1:04:37] the you're talk you're dealing with

[1:04:38] other people have been through it, too.

[1:04:44] » All right.

[1:04:48] Mhm.

[1:04:52] » I really appreciate the work you do and

[1:04:55] it's not a fun job and it's a lot of

[1:04:57] noise. Um, I've had one of those jobs

[1:05:01] and I get it and now I have time to

[1:05:03] volunteer and I would like to become

[1:05:05] more of an active part of Colombia.

[1:05:10] If I were a web master, I would

[1:05:11] volunteer my services there. There is a

[1:05:14] volunteer form on your website. Um, I

[1:05:17] don't know where it goes. Um, and I'd

[1:05:20] like to help with that. Um, the bios for

[1:05:25] our council people are outdated on the

[1:05:28] website. Uh, but if I could help, I

[1:05:32] would like to. Um, I had a job where I

[1:05:35] took a lot of bullying from

[1:05:37] bazillionaires, but maybe now it's my

[1:05:40] time to leverage some of those

[1:05:42] relationships to see if someone can have

[1:05:46] a vision for that field that is

[1:05:49] beautiful that maintains the beauty of

[1:05:52] it. Um, Mr. Doctor, is that your name?

[1:05:55] Frank.

[1:05:58] Um,

[1:06:00] if you are pro- data center behind my

[1:06:03] house, I would love to invite you to my

[1:06:05] house and we'll have iced tea and we'll

[1:06:08] look out on that land. It's not just the

[1:06:11] water stuff, it's also the noise

[1:06:14] and that's real. And I would invite any

[1:06:16] of you I I regret the other night. I

[1:06:19] know you called us they I was one of the

[1:06:22] people that did try to bring the

[1:06:23] temperature down that night and that is

[1:06:27] a superpower that I have. If you could

[1:06:29] leverage that, I am at your service.

[1:06:33] Um,

[1:06:35] but

[1:06:37] yeah, I think we need imagination

[1:06:41] and a real vision that is worthy of

[1:06:46] Colombia

[1:06:48] and relationships that can bring people

[1:06:52] that could share that vision. And it's

[1:06:55] not just data centers or nothing. I

[1:06:58] think there are some amazing things

[1:07:00] right in our county. We've watched lit

[1:07:04] reinvent itself with rock lit. Like who

[1:07:07] brought that up at a council meeting?

[1:07:09] Like I have this idea that we'll bring

[1:07:12] Lady Gaga and Beyonce and she'll they'll

[1:07:15] want to hang out in Lancaster County,

[1:07:17] Pennsylvania.

[1:07:19] Um or what Spooky Nook did creating the

[1:07:22] athletic stuff like who brought that up

[1:07:25] and got laughed out of a council meeting

[1:07:27] that night but then they did it. So,

[1:07:30] that is where I would really love to

[1:07:32] help if I can help with creativity and

[1:07:35] relationships. Um,

[1:07:38] I'm I'm here. I We have wonderful

[1:07:41] neighbors that I want to support and um

[1:07:45] thank you for making this space

[1:07:46] available.

[1:07:48] » Thank you.

[1:07:49] » Write that name down.

[1:07:50] » Yeah. Colette, could you uh hand us a

[1:07:52] copy of your email address or a card or

[1:07:54] anything before you head out tonight?

[1:07:57] » All right. Is there anyone else? Last

[1:07:59] call for comments.

[1:08:01] » All right. Uh, moving on.

[1:08:04] Leadership committees. Uh, legislation.

[1:08:07] Uh, Kelly, do you want to walk us

[1:08:09] through

[1:08:11] » 166 and 112?

[1:08:12] » Yeah. Uh, first of all, 166 is on first,

[1:08:15] so we'll we'll go through that first.

[1:08:17] But, uh, just, uh, 112 is basically

[1:08:21] unchanged from last summer. I forget

[1:08:24] which one to look back on it. I forgot.

[1:08:26] but uh was quote unquote reviewed and

[1:08:29] given the stamp of approval by council

[1:08:31] even though we never went forward with

[1:08:33] it because 112 and 166 are tied together

[1:08:36] and when we worked on both of them there

[1:08:38] were pieces we took out of 112 and moved

[1:08:40] to 166 and vice versa so you can't

[1:08:43] really approve one without the other

[1:08:44] » Right

[1:08:45] » Uh anyways uh in your packet you have

[1:08:48] 166 which has been oh god is this two

[1:08:53] years Paul

[1:08:56] for me at least two years of working on

[1:08:59] 166 and a lot of change in there. Um

[1:09:04] that was should I say previous to this

[1:09:07] but um the highlights in red

[1:09:10] specifically are the newest additions

[1:09:13] deal with parking

[1:09:16] um deal with the slumlord uh definition

[1:09:20] and how we handle slumlords in town. and

[1:09:22] it has been also reviewed sent to our

[1:09:26] solicitor and he sent us his uh his

[1:09:29] feedback and comments on things that he

[1:09:31] that needed to be put in there as far as

[1:09:34] disruptive conduct and other items like

[1:09:36] that. So um

[1:09:40] at this time I just say if if council

[1:09:43] has any specific I'm hoping every time

[1:09:46] to read it. That's why we sent you

[1:09:47] plenty of time. It is very lengthy. It's

[1:09:49] very comprehensive. It is the it is the

[1:09:52] cornerstone of our to me at least it is

[1:09:56] the cornerstone ordinance of our uh

[1:10:00] of our of our codes. It's chapter 166 is

[1:10:04] rental property. So uh there's lead safe

[1:10:07] lead it deals with lead safe. Um all the

[1:10:10] definitions in here uh from

[1:10:16] » Yeah, we've added a few

[1:10:19] » Um in the packet. The first document is

[1:10:23] the existing ordinance.

[1:10:25] » Um and then the second is what we're

[1:10:28] proposing to change it to.

[1:10:33] Um, and

[1:10:35] if there's no other changes at this

[1:10:39] point, we'll take this and actually put

[1:10:42] it into the ordinance that we will be

[1:10:45] adopting. Um,

[1:10:47] » Because we really only have to put in

[1:10:48] there the stuff that's changing, the

[1:10:51] stuff that's being added and deleted. Um

[1:10:55] and then we would bring that back to

[1:10:57] authorize to advertise

[1:11:02] » On the um required off streetet parking.

[1:11:05] Um and then on the all owner occupied

[1:11:08] single residential properties which are

[1:11:11] converted into a residential unit must

[1:11:14] provide two off streetet parking spaces

[1:11:17] on the promise. Okay. Somewhere else I

[1:11:20] read, I'm just not seeing it right now,

[1:11:22] that those two parking places had to be

[1:11:26] in the same

[1:11:28] on the premise in the same lot that the

[1:11:32] ADU was in.

[1:11:34] » Oh, yeah. That's at the top of the next

[1:11:35] page. ADU is also required, too.

[1:11:37] » Yeah. And and I don't understand like if

[1:11:41] they a parking place down around the

[1:11:45] corner,

[1:11:47] can't they park there? or the guy owns

[1:11:49] another property the parking place is in

[1:11:51] it

[1:11:53] park there instead of

[1:11:54] » Who keeps track of that as far as

[1:11:56] enforcement you know thing become an

[1:11:58] enforcement nightmare for you you're

[1:12:00] you're expecting our police our codes

[1:12:02] our parking enforcement to go around and

[1:12:04] then you say oh oh that car belongs

[1:12:06] property so it's okay that one belongs

[1:12:08] property that's the problem we had a

[1:12:10] nightmare said that's the problem we had

[1:12:13] go I can tell you right now there are

[1:12:18] properties that came to zoning

[1:12:22] and their parking requirements.

[1:12:25] They said, "Oh, we don't have them on

[1:12:27] premise, but we are renting parking from

[1:12:31] XYZ business." After a while, when you

[1:12:34] can attend enough zoning meetings, you

[1:12:37] find that they probably leased

[1:12:42] parking for twice as many parking spaces

[1:12:45] as that the business had.

[1:12:48] » Yeah.

[1:12:48] » So, and we had no way to keep track of

[1:12:50] that. And they could have said, we had

[1:12:52] this happen. I'm going to rent two

[1:12:55] parking spaces from the person down the

[1:12:58] street here.

[1:13:00] They could have made one month payment,

[1:13:02] never paid again if we don't have no

[1:13:04] record there. So, we can't control that

[1:13:06] off street parking unless it's on the

[1:13:08] premise.

[1:13:11] I'll say that uh after reviewing this

[1:13:13] and looking into the since the last time

[1:13:15] we discussed this about two months ago,

[1:13:17] um I've spent a good amount of time

[1:13:19] trying to learn about parking issues.

[1:13:22] Um, I went through five different PDFs

[1:13:25] that uh somebody from the county sent me

[1:13:28] um and attended the PSAD training on

[1:13:30] parking. I will say that personally I do

[1:13:34] not I don't believe that we should

[1:13:36] include that parking minimum um that

[1:13:39] that requirement uh as part of this um

[1:13:43] mostly because every resource that I

[1:13:46] have found from the county and from

[1:13:48] other locations outside of Pennsylvania

[1:13:50] and Lancaster all suggest to either

[1:13:55] reduce or entirely cut minimum parking

[1:13:58] requirements. Um, in some cases, and

[1:14:01] this document from the county says that

[1:14:03] instead we should be adopting uh a

[1:14:06] maximum parking space limit rather than

[1:14:09] requiring minimums. Basically, the idea

[1:14:12] being with the shortage in housing. Um,

[1:14:16] the space can be either better utilized

[1:14:20] for more housing or leave it up to the

[1:14:21] developer to make that decision rather

[1:14:24] than us saying we need to have this

[1:14:26] minimum. So a after reading through the

[1:14:30] document, I love all the stuff with the

[1:14:32] uh the slumber ordinance and all those

[1:14:34] definitions, but I don't think that we

[1:14:37] should include that parking minimum.

[1:14:40] » If you didn't do that, you could not

[1:14:42] park in.

[1:14:43] » Yeah.

[1:14:45] » That many vehicles on the streets, you

[1:14:48] could not park anywhere near your res.

[1:14:50] » I'm just being honest with you. in 14

[1:14:53] and a half years.

[1:14:55] One of the most common threads every

[1:14:58] year, every week is people complaining

[1:15:03] about I never have any place to park and

[1:15:06] you know my neighborhoods, you know,

[1:15:07] there's row homes and there's personal

[1:15:09] and they're entitled to it. They have a

[1:15:11] row home and they have four cars for one

[1:15:14] row. Where would I put them? They put

[1:15:16] them on the street because they're

[1:15:16] entitled to obviously. Where am I

[1:15:18] supposed to park? I built forest parking

[1:15:21] spaces on the back of my property just

[1:15:22] so I had a I didn't have to just so I

[1:15:24] had a place to put my cars and have a

[1:15:26] place to go. I mean, and I I'm fortunate

[1:15:29] to have that. But there's other people

[1:15:30] that don't have it. So, if we don't I

[1:15:33] know what you're saying about other

[1:15:34] areas, but Colombia I mean, when it

[1:15:36] comes to parking, Columbia is a

[1:15:37] different bird. I mean really I mean

[1:15:40] it's it's a it's very you see the

[1:15:43] housing is so compact

[1:15:45] » And you know that's one of the reasons

[1:15:46] why I voted against you know everyone

[1:15:49] said well you were voting against a

[1:15:51] certificate of appropriateness. I voted

[1:15:53] no because I didn't feel it was

[1:15:54] appropriate to rebuild a home in an

[1:15:56] alleyway when to me the alleyways should

[1:15:58] be cleaned out and be used for parking

[1:16:02] to [laughter] you know wherever wherever

[1:16:03] possible to ease some of this

[1:16:04] congestion. It's the housing in Columbia

[1:16:07] is so densely packed and so I mean it

[1:16:10] it's unless you build up, you know.

[1:16:13] » Yeah, I I totally understand that and a

[1:16:15] lot of the stuff that it talks about

[1:16:17] here are the longer term effects of

[1:16:20] having these parking minimums. Um, so I

[1:16:24] understand that it's not a perfect

[1:16:27] solution, but also the I think the

[1:16:29] longest term solution is to make do what

[1:16:32] we can to make Columbia more walkable

[1:16:34] and have things that way people don't

[1:16:37] need to have a car um at all. But I I

[1:16:42] just do I Yeah, I just have some

[1:16:46] concerns about it uh being the two

[1:16:49] parking minimum. um even if we like

[1:16:53] dropped it to one um still had a parking

[1:16:56] minimum. I've seen other places instead

[1:16:58] change it to uh the number of bedrooms

[1:17:01] rather than the entire number of units

[1:17:03] um because

[1:17:05] » It changes from it changes from owner to

[1:17:07] owner. You know what I mean? So you have

[1:17:08] » It was at one for years. Yeah,

[1:17:10] » It was the low parking issue

[1:17:14] » And a lot of those municipalities that

[1:17:16] are suggesting that they cut back um

[1:17:19] have parking garages, structures that

[1:17:22] parking lots.

[1:17:27] Well,

[1:17:28] » Yeah.

[1:17:29] » So, there's people in this room, they

[1:17:30] know that

[1:17:31] » 10 years ago when I was on council, I

[1:17:32] was president council, we were actively

[1:17:35] pursuing a downtown parking garage and

[1:17:39] basically that laughed at, oh, you need

[1:17:42] that. Now, everybody's like, where is

[1:17:44] the parking garage?

[1:17:45] » That's how it changes in not even 10

[1:17:47] years. And and I see this as one of

[1:17:49] those times where we are actually

[1:17:52] listening to our public, listening to

[1:17:55] our residents, telling us that parking

[1:17:59] is an issue and the people that are

[1:18:02] coming in and renting and have five

[1:18:06] cars,

[1:18:08] you need to have regulations on that so

[1:18:11] that they're not parking all five of

[1:18:12] those on the street. Um, so that's the

[1:18:16] way I see it.

[1:18:18] is this is

[1:18:20] » Something we've been asked for.

[1:18:21] » I understand. I just usually the data

[1:18:23] shows kind of the opposite where people

[1:18:26] who are renters usually either will only

[1:18:28] have one car per unit or sometimes no

[1:18:30] car at all. And so I just

[1:18:34] well, you know, it is what it is. If it

[1:18:37] if it was a thing where neighbors were

[1:18:39] nice to each other, you know, how you

[1:18:41] like to be that guy that works four to

[1:18:42] midnight every day and comes home

[1:18:44] midnight and can't find one parking

[1:18:46] space three blocks to his house and it's

[1:18:49] raining or it's snowing. That's total

[1:18:51] crap. You know, he should be entitled to

[1:18:53] park near his house. And that really is

[1:18:56] what I think this addresses for me at

[1:18:59] least. Anyway, I mean, I went through

[1:19:00] when I my first home I bought was in

[1:19:03] when I was in my 20s. My first home was

[1:19:04] in the city of Reading. Huh. little

[1:19:06] luck. [laughter] You know what I mean?

[1:19:08] Drive around in circles. Oh, somebody's

[1:19:09] pulling out. Zip up there. Put it in

[1:19:11] there. If you were left and I don't want

[1:19:13] people I mean that's it's not a good

[1:19:16] situation. I mean there's no there's no

[1:19:19] golden spoon here with parking. Really

[1:19:22] just trying to find a a middle ground

[1:19:24] that you can live with. Well, I think

[1:19:26] some of the data if you're living in a

[1:19:30] an apartment

[1:19:35] chances that there is a chance you won't

[1:19:37] have a vehicle. Yeah. But what it really

[1:19:42] puts the problem on us is the single

[1:19:44] family rental.

[1:19:47] You got a 14t wide house and three 22

[1:19:50] foot cars. It don't compute.

[1:19:54] And they don't have to just

[1:19:57] » Sorry. And and the people that are

[1:20:01] renting the single family home are not

[1:20:03] the ones that aren't.

[1:20:07] » Well, I wanted to bring it up that

[1:20:08] that's a concern that I currently have.

[1:20:10] » No, I appreciate that.

[1:20:11] » Chair, you wanted to be

[1:20:13] » Yeah.

[1:20:15] » Yeah.

[1:20:16] » I find

[1:20:19] » I know if you so or not. I find myself

[1:20:22] agreeing with Kelly outside of the um

[1:20:24] parking garage. Um we have adequate what

[1:20:29] I'll call adequate parking on our block

[1:20:32] and it has been comfortable for the

[1:20:34] nearly 10 years that I've been on that

[1:20:36] particular block. Um but recently we

[1:20:39] have cars parking there routinely

[1:20:42] leaving them all day sometimes overnight

[1:20:45] um [clears throat] you know long periods

[1:20:47] of time that actually are on the

[1:20:50] opposite street. They're they're

[1:20:53] utilizing now our part and it makes it

[1:20:57] tight for us when we come back and we

[1:20:59] don't know where we're going to go. U so

[1:21:02] I would encourage you I'm sorry Ethan

[1:21:04] but not to do anything. So [laughter]

[1:21:06] that's okay. or suggested because it I

[1:21:09] think the parking actually is just

[1:21:12] getting worse in our area and there's a

[1:21:14] recent home that sold where the woman

[1:21:17] lived there alone with one vehicle. Now

[1:21:20] a family moved in and I see two vehicles

[1:21:23] and a work truck. So, you know, now

[1:21:26] that's a new story and the people in our

[1:21:28] block are getting older. So when they

[1:21:30] sell, it's going to be, you know,

[1:21:33] certainly families coming in, not one

[1:21:36] vehicle parked there anymore. So thank

[1:21:38] you.

[1:21:38] » I'm sure they love that one way, too.

[1:21:40] » Yeah.

[1:21:40] » Makes it easy to get in out.

[1:21:48] » Now it's my turn to get dumped on.

[1:21:51] [laughter]

[1:21:52] » I like you.

[1:21:55] No, I I feel

[1:21:58] another way to look at this is we're

[1:22:00] strictly looking at rental properties

[1:22:03] here. Not looking at residential,

[1:22:07] but with rental properties,

[1:22:10] a single family home being rented with

[1:22:14] three and four cars. We've got a couple

[1:22:17] of them on our block. If I didn't have a

[1:22:18] garage, I'd have no place to park.

[1:22:22] And it's been like that for years

[1:22:23] because across the street is a three

[1:22:25] unit that has six cars there or seven

[1:22:28] cars and no off streetet parking. The

[1:22:30] other thing I'm looking at is once this

[1:22:34] is put into effect that a single family

[1:22:38] rental property needs on premises

[1:22:42] parking.

[1:22:44] How many places in Colombia can you do

[1:22:47] that?

[1:22:48] Is this going to help

[1:22:52] cut down on the number of single family

[1:22:56] properties

[1:22:57] being converted into rental housing?

[1:23:01] » It's going to

[1:23:02] » That that is a home ownership for young

[1:23:06] families.

[1:23:06] » When I saw that, I thought like on my

[1:23:09] block I'm thinking we've got a private

[1:23:11] alley in back of our place.

[1:23:15] But

[1:23:17] » There's no way you're It's a grass alley

[1:23:21] and we've got a rental property two

[1:23:23] houses in from Sixth Street

[1:23:27] and there's

[1:23:29] there's no on premises parking there.

[1:23:32] And I know it's going to help that also

[1:23:35] if you push for the single family rental

[1:23:39] on premises.

[1:23:49] Hi, my name is Moises Hernandez.

[1:23:52] I am a little curious on how this

[1:23:55] regulation would it be conflicting any

[1:23:57] way with if there's a I'm not sure if

[1:23:59] there's a rule on how far from the

[1:24:01] corner a car has to be. Like when I'm

[1:24:03] driving around and I'm going through

[1:24:04] alleys, there are cars parked almost

[1:24:06] into the alley. There are cars that

[1:24:08] almost block my driveway. And that is

[1:24:10] the biggest issue for me because now I

[1:24:12] can't see my left or my right.

[1:24:15] » So I was wondering if we're doing

[1:24:16] assigned parking in that in a certain

[1:24:18] sense would we be able to enforce that

[1:24:20] corner rule more or would there be like

[1:24:23] some sort of conflict of interest

[1:24:24] there's there's state statute

[1:24:27] » State statute dictates how far you can

[1:24:29] be from a stop sign or a corner curb

[1:24:31] anything like that.

[1:24:34] So the uh police officers uh have

[1:24:37] mandate from the state and are allowed

[1:24:38] to enforce uh any obstructions or

[1:24:40] anything that is a violation. So

[1:24:42] » You are correct late at night. You drive

[1:24:45] come home and I went how the heck would

[1:24:48] you let somebody use a crossbow?

[1:24:50] » Yeah, I've had that. I drive out at

[1:24:52] night. I work at night as well and

[1:24:54] there's a car parked there. It's black.

[1:24:55] I can't see. Turns out there's another

[1:24:56] car coming in. I almost have an accident

[1:24:58] because either they don't have the

[1:24:59] lights on, I can't see them or it's

[1:25:02] blocked. Is there a specific department

[1:25:04] I should contact for those kind of cars

[1:25:06] in that corner?

[1:25:08] » Just a blue. Now, interestingly, you

[1:25:10] bring that up. Uh the PSAB thing that I

[1:25:13] mentioned earlier did actually have a

[1:25:15] section on this about ways that while it

[1:25:18] is, you know, generally it's just sort

[1:25:20] of painted on the curb and there's an

[1:25:22] opening. Um there were a lot of

[1:25:24] encouragements of alternative ways to

[1:25:26] sort of block off that those sections um

[1:25:30] to literally make it impossible for

[1:25:33] somebody to block in in that area. Um

[1:25:36] and I think it's definitely something

[1:25:38] that we could consider doing at the very

[1:25:41] least trying it in a few intersections

[1:25:42] in Colombia and then seeing how that

[1:25:44] affects traffic and parking and

[1:25:46] everything else and then potentially do

[1:25:48] more of that depending on the cost. Um

[1:25:50] it is something I did want to get a

[1:25:52] chance to bring up but haven't had the

[1:25:53] opportunity. Um but yeah it's yeah

[1:25:56] something we can totally look at more

[1:25:58] popular.

[1:26:00] » Yeah

[1:26:01] but the problem is it's expensive way

[1:26:03] expensive.

[1:26:04] » Yeah

[1:26:06] our

[1:26:08] public works manager and I talked the

[1:26:10] other day he had matter of fact we did

[1:26:13] some already. They're painting the all

[1:26:16] lines. They're not painting the all

[1:26:18] lines and and the officers will site

[1:26:23] because of the parking situation like

[1:26:25] this in town. Sometimes

[1:26:28] you don't get to see it or if it if if

[1:26:31] it looks like in the officer's mind, if

[1:26:34] it looks like it could cause an

[1:26:36] accident, there's not enough sight, they

[1:26:39] will sight. But because parking is so

[1:26:42] tough, sometimes

[1:26:44] if it's little close to what the

[1:26:47] allocation is, it might let it go and I

[1:26:50] and I can understand that and I won't

[1:26:52] call them for it, but they know if it's

[1:26:54] safe unsafe, they're going to

[1:26:56] » Okay.

[1:26:57] » Yeah. I saw in Lester City there's like

[1:26:59] a big curb up with a garden in it.

[1:27:02] » I don't know if that'll work here, but

[1:27:03] » Well, we call them bump outs, but yeah.

[1:27:05] » Yeah, we have some of those on South or

[1:27:08] South Street. And there are versions

[1:27:10] that you can do without having to create

[1:27:12] a full concrete setup. Like an example I

[1:27:15] have here is literally just some white

[1:27:16] poles um that outline that shape um to

[1:27:20] prevent people from being able to pull

[1:27:21] in there. Okay.

[1:27:22] » Um but yeah, we can absolutely talk

[1:27:25] about that more and try to get something

[1:27:27] together.

[1:27:27] » Yeah, I really appreciate it. Like that

[1:27:29] in combination with the cats like I'm

[1:27:30] trying not to hit a cat and then there's

[1:27:32] also that lot of things. [clears throat]

[1:27:34] Thank you so much.

[1:27:35] » Thanks. But one of the nice one of the

[1:27:37] nice things about the curve bump house

[1:27:39] when you do that it decreases it the

[1:27:42] distance that pedestrians have to go

[1:27:45] across the park.

[1:27:48] » So instead of 30 feet across they may

[1:27:50] only have 24 feet on the road to go

[1:27:54] » And it helps slow people down.

[1:27:56] » Absolutely.

[1:27:58] » That's

[1:28:01] thank you for bringing that up.

[1:28:02] » Yeah, you made a good point. It it

[1:28:04] definitely slows them down. Yeah,

[1:28:05] definitely seen it.

[1:28:06] » Yeah, I've seen more.

[1:28:11] » That's exactly right. Yeah, that's where

[1:28:13] there's a lot of cats that go there.

[1:28:15] [laughter]

[1:28:16] » Mary and I had some good conversations

[1:28:18] about

[1:28:20] [laughter]

[1:28:21] » I thought you said all your neighbors

[1:28:22] were feeding the cats.

[1:28:23] » Yeah. So, Mary is out there. Mary's out

[1:28:26] there in the neighborhood. [laughter]

[1:28:33] » Oh, gotcha. Okay.

[1:28:36] » Yeah. I mean,

[1:28:37] » So she's out on Sixth Street asking them

[1:28:39] to come to council to complain about

[1:28:41] » And then she's calling the kids on the

[1:28:42] bikes to go around to start your life.

[1:28:45] [laughter]

[1:28:45] » Thank you so much.

[1:28:46] » We got it. We got it.

[1:28:48] » I I wish there was, you know, we talked

[1:28:50] about this off and on over here. It's

[1:28:52] never been popular and I and I wish it

[1:28:55] would put a hell of a burden on Chief's

[1:28:56] department, but really it would be

[1:28:58] awesome if we could mark off parking

[1:29:01] spaces with white painted lines, too.

[1:29:03] I'm just being honest with you. There

[1:29:06] are a good number of people in this town

[1:29:07] that can't parallel park to save their

[1:29:10] life. You know, five feet in front of

[1:29:12] the car, five foot back and there goes a

[1:29:16] space. You know what's funny? You know

[1:29:18] what's funny?

[1:29:27] » I'll tell you something that's funny

[1:29:28] about that. We had Derek do a study on

[1:29:32] 8th Street, South A Street

[1:29:34] [clears throat]

[1:29:35] » And and then he did Perry too and found

[1:29:38] out with the lines we would have less

[1:29:41] parking than without the lines

[1:29:45] » Because when you got a smaller vehicle

[1:29:49] » The issue is bad parking behavior, not

[1:29:52] necessarily

[1:29:53] » Not that's the issue. And when you have

[1:29:56] good parking behavior like on South 8th

[1:29:59] Street where they were actually parked

[1:30:03] one after the other,

[1:30:05] » You would lose spaces. Whereas somewhere

[1:30:07] like the 800 block of Locust Street

[1:30:11] where you may not have all those, but

[1:30:14] you have bad parking behavior because

[1:30:16] people are leaving these ginormous space

[1:30:19] between the things.

[1:30:21] » That's because they can't. It's not It's

[1:30:23] not always their fault that either

[1:30:25] because that one person comes in and

[1:30:27] starts the parking for everybody else.

[1:30:29] Then you leave, someone's there and

[1:30:31] looks like, "Oh, you're taking up two

[1:30:32] spaces." When it was the person in front

[1:30:34] of you, it gets all messed up.

[1:30:36] » Right.

[1:30:37] » I like the line.

[1:30:40] » Yeah.

[1:30:43] » All right. [clears throat] Anything else

[1:30:44] on the uh rental? Yes.

[1:30:52] I debated bringing this up, but is there

[1:30:55] anything in the ordinance that covers

[1:30:57] travel trailers,

[1:30:59] travel trailers, plus house trailers?

[1:31:04] And I'll give you an example, a place

[1:31:06] where I know there's numerous

[1:31:08] violations.

[1:31:10] I just seen them clear a spot and it's a

[1:31:12] little bigger than a travel trailer, but

[1:31:14] it probably is a travel trailer. set it

[1:31:17] up, put an awning out, have their

[1:31:20] morning coffee and all that.

[1:31:23] » Um,

[1:31:27] » But anyway, is there anything in the

[1:31:28] ordinance that covers this?

[1:31:30] » Not in this ordinance. No,

[1:31:33] » There is

[1:31:34] » Not this ordinance, but

[1:31:35] » Not this particular. Yeah, it's another

[1:31:37] one that we're working on. They have to

[1:31:39] get these.

[1:31:39] » If you have a trailer,

[1:31:42] » It's unhooked.

[1:31:43] » It's

[1:31:44] » Yes, we unhook. There's a length of time

[1:31:47] I put in the chief.

[1:31:49] » Four hours. It has to be moved.

[1:31:51] » Oh my god.

[1:31:53] » We got all kind of violations.

[1:31:57] » Is there anything that says they can't

[1:31:59] park the trailer in front of their

[1:32:01] property? We see that at different

[1:32:04] places. And it

[1:32:06] » Probably not in this.

[1:32:07] » No, there's nothing in there. But

[1:32:10] honestly, there's in my block there's

[1:32:13] someone living in a travel trailer in

[1:32:14] the alley.

[1:32:16] So, what do we do about that?

[1:32:18] » Yeah, that you pointed out. I went and

[1:32:19] checked it out. They have like torches.

[1:32:25] » If the trailer is on a property and not

[1:32:27] on the road, does that mean it's qual it

[1:32:29] qualifies at the ADU in the definition

[1:32:32] for this rental property?

[1:32:38] » Because I mean like if it's not on the

[1:32:39] property,

[1:32:40] » If like Yeah. Like if in this case like

[1:32:42] they pull the trailer into the backyard

[1:32:43] or something and somebody is living out

[1:32:45] of it, wouldn't that be an ADU under

[1:32:48] this definition?

[1:32:49] » I would agree with you.

[1:32:52] » They're living in it. They're living.

[1:32:54] » Yes.

[1:32:54] » Yeah. A self-contained smaller

[1:32:56] residential unit located on the same lot

[1:32:58] as a primary single family. So in that

[1:33:01] case, it could qualify as an ADU.

[1:33:04] Actually, no. They do not

[1:33:06] » Because they do not have water.

[1:33:10] » Water.

[1:33:11] » Okay.

[1:33:13] They're not hooked up to each other.

[1:33:14] Gotcha.

[1:33:14] » They're not hooked up to each other.

[1:33:15] » They require We should get that that

[1:33:17] definition then is include that they

[1:33:20] need to be hooked up to for the ADU

[1:33:22] definition.

[1:33:23] » Yeah.

[1:33:24] » So, so that's allowed them. They're

[1:33:26] allowed to live in that as long as they

[1:33:28] want. No restrictions.

[1:33:30] » No.

[1:33:31] » No. We currently don't have anything for

[1:33:34] an ADU.

[1:33:34] » Wow.

[1:33:35] » This is putting in

[1:33:36] » That could be increasing with the way

[1:33:39] housing is.

[1:33:40] » I just seen this one go up and I just

[1:33:42] thought with all the other violations

[1:33:44] there now here's another rental.

[1:33:47] » Yeah, I see trailers.

[1:33:49] » Yeah, a lot of

[1:33:57] street

[1:34:00] » I know. It's it's not just that. It's

[1:34:02] work trucks too. People having you know

[1:34:06] so you work Monday to Friday for you

[1:34:08] know for left and then Saturday to

[1:34:11] Sunday you don't truck sitting there all

[1:34:13] weekend unmoved. You see them all the

[1:34:15] time. I get calls all the time.

[1:34:17] » Guys been sitting all the time and I'll

[1:34:18] call down see what they do.

[1:34:20] » I know. I push for I push to have that

[1:34:22] added in our thing

[1:34:25] » Many times and I

[1:34:28] so because I completely agree that work

[1:34:32] trucks should have be parked

[1:34:35] » In a block that is not you know

[1:34:37] » Should be on the street they should be

[1:34:39] » In a lot somewhere where their lease is

[1:34:40] based for their work truck.

[1:34:47] » All right. We can we can make that um we

[1:34:50] can make that addition to the ADU.

[1:34:53] » Yeah.

[1:34:54] » Yeah.

[1:34:55] » And if there's [clears throat] no other

[1:35:00] suggestions or anything, we can press

[1:35:02] that ordinance

[1:35:04] or be

[1:35:07] advertised at a upcoming meeting.

[1:35:14] Kelly, would you be able to prep that

[1:35:16] ordinance?

[1:35:17] Yep.

[1:35:18] » Okay. Thank you. I I'm like

[1:35:21] » Super busy right now. I with the wedding

[1:35:24] coming up and you know

[1:35:26] » Yeah. I think my yard's in good shape

[1:35:27] now. I think my wife will come over.

[1:35:29] » If you got your yard in good shape, I I

[1:35:31] got the wedding. So, [laughter]

[1:35:35] » No, I'm not getting married. My daughter

[1:35:36] is next weekend and it's driving me I'm

[1:35:39] like going crazy.

[1:35:42] » Yeah. No, I'm not getting married.

[1:35:44] » Been there bought a shirt. I'm not doing

[1:35:46] it again. [laughter]

[1:35:53] » Yeah, my name is not changing, right?

[1:35:57] » All right. Um,

[1:35:59] while we're on the legislation,

[1:36:02] I wanted to I wanted to uh bring

[1:36:05] something up.

[1:36:07] I would like to

[1:36:11] um ask

[1:36:14] council to consider

[1:36:17] I mean we would do this at the next at

[1:36:19] the next meeting um but I would like to

[1:36:21] ask council to consider um doing

[1:36:25] something or you know directing staff to

[1:36:29] send letters of feedback to our

[1:36:33] representative and our senator.

[1:36:37] to oppose some legislation

[1:36:40] that is currently going through

[1:36:44] um the state legislature.

[1:36:47] House Bill 2155.

[1:36:50] This has passed the House

[1:36:54] and it is headed to the Senate and it

[1:36:57] would

[1:36:58] it would prohibit minimum parking

[1:37:01] requirements for any use

[1:37:05] in the zoning.

[1:37:08] Um, also Senate Bill 1239,

[1:37:13] it's called the cutting red tape to

[1:37:15] expand housing options. It grants

[1:37:18] automatic approval for certain

[1:37:20] developments.

[1:37:21] It eliminates minimum and maximum

[1:37:24] densities,

[1:37:25] height restrictions, and excessive

[1:37:29] setbacks on lot size or lot coverage

[1:37:33] mandates.

[1:37:36] Both of these

[1:37:39] are just two. These are the two that are

[1:37:42] the closest to passing, but these are

[1:37:45] two of a host of

[1:37:48] current legislations that are meant to

[1:37:52] basically strip local municipalities

[1:37:56] of their zoning

[1:37:59] ability.

[1:38:01] when Leo s sat here and said the state

[1:38:04] doesn't want to wasn't doesn't want to

[1:38:06] make

[1:38:08] make u legislation they want them they

[1:38:11] want the individual municipalities to do

[1:38:13] it that's the case for data centers but

[1:38:16] when it comes to other things they are

[1:38:18] when it comes to zoning they are

[1:38:20] actively working to strip local

[1:38:23] municipalities ability

[1:38:26] to control their own zoning and I would

[1:38:29] like us to consider

[1:38:32] directing staff to write letters to our

[1:38:37] senator and our representative urging

[1:38:40] them to oppose any legislation that

[1:38:43] would strip zoning rights from the

[1:38:46] municipality. Local officials know their

[1:38:50] communities and they have the right to

[1:38:53] set their zoning standards to dictate

[1:38:56] what is best for their community. We

[1:38:58] should not be told by Harrisburg that we

[1:39:01] we we have to accept any development

[1:39:04] that comes our way. We should not be

[1:39:07] told that we can't tell people uh we

[1:39:10] can't set a maximum density. That means

[1:39:13] we could have a high-rise all over

[1:39:16] Colombia and we would not be able to say

[1:39:18] anything about it. And if they strip out

[1:39:21] the minimum minimum parking

[1:39:24] requirements, we wouldn't even be

[1:39:25] require we wouldn't even be able to

[1:39:27] require a high-rise apartment building

[1:39:30] to have parking at all. So I I think

[1:39:33] it's just they're they're not they're

[1:39:36] not willing to step in on a data center

[1:39:38] issue, but yet on a zoning issue,

[1:39:41] they're willing to completely strip all

[1:39:44] ability from the local municipalities.

[1:39:47] So there's my soap box. Um,

[1:39:51] » We go again. And the primary goal is to

[1:39:53] increase density.

[1:39:55] » Their primary goal is to increase

[1:39:57] density to build as much housing as

[1:40:00] possible without regard to how that's

[1:40:02] going to affect everyone

[1:40:04] » Or impact the school district

[1:40:05] » Or impact the school district and

[1:40:07] everything else.

[1:40:09] » So, how does that process of directing

[1:40:11] staff work? Is that just a

[1:40:13] » It's just we would just vote um to say

[1:40:17] we would like staff to do that and Jack

[1:40:19] would craft the letter and send it to um

[1:40:22] Malone and Miller saying that Colombia

[1:40:26] Burough as a burrow urges them to vote

[1:40:29] no on any legislation that would preempt

[1:40:33] um local zoning

[1:40:35] control.

[1:40:39] So, if everyone is okay with that, I'll

[1:40:42] have that put on the next put up for a

[1:40:45] vote for next week. Put that on the

[1:40:48] » And you can do that on your own, too.

[1:40:50] » And yes, and we each individually can do

[1:40:52] it as well, but I would like it. I am

[1:40:55] asking that this come from the burrow

[1:40:58] because I tend to think that holds more

[1:41:01] weight with our

[1:41:04] representatives

[1:41:06] when we do it as a group. Yes,

[1:41:15] this is Moises again. Would constituents

[1:41:18] also be able to provide their own letter

[1:41:19] to you and you can send them all

[1:41:21] together to the office?

[1:41:23] » Yes. and or you can contact them as

[1:41:25] well. Um, that's always that's always

[1:41:29] nice when when constituents are

[1:41:31] contacting them outside of the

[1:41:33] municipality because it it shows them

[1:41:35] that

[1:41:37] individuals are paying attention, not

[1:41:39] just, you know, not just council

[1:41:42] members. Truth and matter is

[1:41:46] they will look at what a resident

[1:41:51] sends them with more favor than what

[1:41:55] council will send.

[1:41:57] » That's what I was wondering. So

[1:41:59] » You have more weight than what we do.

[1:42:02] » Okay, perfect.

[1:42:04] » Thank you so much.

[1:42:05] » Thanks.

[1:42:08] » Yes.

[1:42:11] bill.

[1:42:13] Uh,

[1:42:15] » One of them was House Bill 2155.

[1:42:18] I didn't get the

[1:42:19] » Senate 1239 is the cutting red tape to

[1:42:24] expand housing options.

[1:42:27] It grants automatic approval for certain

[1:42:30] developments.

[1:42:31] And it eliminates the minimum and

[1:42:34] maximum densities,

[1:42:36] pipe restrictions, excessive setbacks,

[1:42:39] and lot size or lot coverage mandates.

[1:42:42] So, it pretty much says

[1:42:45] anything goes anywhere and the

[1:42:48] municipality cannot do anything about

[1:42:50] it.

[1:42:51] » It basically guts your comp plan in your

[1:42:53] zoom.

[1:42:53] » It does. And it it basically guts. I

[1:42:56] mean it it it cuts your [laughter] it it

[1:42:59] just cuts the cell though and that's the

[1:43:02] state law anyway. Exactly. It's

[1:43:05] » Any

[1:43:19] I just wanted to say that I think

[1:43:22] Colombia is way too small. I don't think

[1:43:25] people consider how small we are here.

[1:43:28] And if we keep building, it's not that I

[1:43:31] don't understand the need for housing. I

[1:43:34] do, but this is not the place to keep

[1:43:36] building up and making it more and more.

[1:43:39] It's all

[1:43:40] » I know.

[1:43:41] » Just don't see that that's the right way

[1:43:43] to go. Thank

[1:43:44] » That's what the legislature is trying to

[1:43:46] do.

[1:43:50] Um, before we move on to legislation,

[1:43:53] um, I did want to ask if we could take a

[1:43:57] look at amending the zoning, the way the

[1:44:00] zoning is currently set up for data

[1:44:02] centers. Currently, it's permitted by

[1:44:04] Wright in both uh, light business and

[1:44:08] light industrial and general industrial.

[1:44:11] I I assume the GI stands for. Okay. Um,

[1:44:16] a lot of the suggestions I've read

[1:44:18] include from the county suggest having

[1:44:20] it [clears throat] be a special

[1:44:22] exception

[1:44:23] um, in in places like considering like

[1:44:27] business rather than permitted by

[1:44:29] rights. So, it does have to go before a

[1:44:32] vote. Um, so I would like us to consider

[1:44:35] amending the zoning to have data centers

[1:44:37] be special exceptions and like business

[1:44:39] rather than permitted by rights.

[1:44:50] Shoot.

[1:44:53] I missed a few others.

[1:44:55] Bills that are preemptive.

[1:44:58] Um, you'll like this one, Mary. House

[1:45:01] Bill 1459

[1:45:03] is requiring zoning ordinances to be

[1:45:06] revised to allow multifamily housing in

[1:45:10] urban areas. zone for office and retail.

[1:45:16] House Bill 2186

[1:45:20] makes ADUs permitted by right in every

[1:45:23] zoning district.

[1:45:25] House Bill 21109

[1:45:28] known as the Golden Girls Law. It

[1:45:31] legalizes shared living arrangements.

[1:45:34] And House Bill 2303

[1:45:38] um stipulates that the county,

[1:45:42] not the local municipality, but on a

[1:45:44] county level, needs to regulate

[1:45:47] short-term rentals,

[1:45:51] House Bill 2303.

[1:45:54] So there is, as I said, there is a a

[1:45:56] whole bunch of preemptive um

[1:46:00] [clears throat] legislation out there

[1:46:02] that I think we should just say, please

[1:46:05] oppose all

[1:46:07] preeemption.

[1:46:13] » Yes, they do.

[1:46:20] » True.

[1:46:20] » Yep.

[1:46:23] All right. Anything else on legislation?

[1:46:27] Nope. All right. Um,

[1:46:32] finance in your packet. You have the

[1:46:34] finance reports.

[1:46:38] There any questions on that? Finance

[1:46:40] reports

[1:46:49] and

[1:47:06] we have the general fund account balance

[1:47:09] as 56.

[1:47:12] Um,

[1:47:14] question.

[1:47:17] Do we know when we will be presenting

[1:47:20] the

[1:47:22] heard?

[1:47:23] » I have not received any updates as yet.

[1:47:28] Uh, you may want to check with them to

[1:47:31] make sure they have received everything.

[1:47:34] I know that the solicitor sometimes

[1:47:37] would hold up our audit because he would

[1:47:40] not questionire.

[1:47:49] Yeah, because it has to be filed by a

[1:47:51] certain

[1:47:55] » Are there any other questions or

[1:47:56] comments on finance

[1:47:59] community development?

[1:48:03] Is that

[1:48:05] » It's Gan

[1:48:08] Community?

[1:48:09] » I don't have anything.

[1:48:13] You are still planning to uh

[1:48:16] have the homeless shelter meeting though

[1:48:18] again. You're going to reschedule that

[1:48:20] at some point.

[1:48:21] » But it's not set.

[1:48:23] » Okay.

[1:48:24] » I'm waiting for the guest. I just called

[1:48:27] it today.

[1:48:28] » You'll advise everybody when that when

[1:48:29] that occurs. Okay.

[1:48:37] » Anything else on that? Uh public works

[1:48:45] report from Jake's. Anything you want to

[1:48:47] touch on, Jake? I mean, obviously

[1:48:49] everybody knows they started on Wall

[1:48:50] Street already, so

[1:49:11] How's the um waste recycling? Yard waste

[1:49:16] recycling coming

[1:49:26] down.

[1:49:40] I will say we have a little setback.

[1:49:42] Could

[1:49:51] have been a lot worse.

[1:50:02] basically stops

[1:50:14] a lot more.

[1:50:24] » Are we able to determine where that came

[1:50:26] from?

[1:50:28] My guess is probably

[1:50:50] » I can't imagine somebody put something

[1:50:52] like that in a yard waste.

[1:51:03] Thanks for sharing that. Unfortunately,

[1:51:06] » Isn't

[1:51:19] that means it's downtime. So when it

[1:51:22] comes back up then they're going to be

[1:51:24] behind on

[1:51:27] shipping and everything else.

[1:51:30] Sure is.

[1:51:41] I don't trim it so I won't attribute to

[1:51:43] the file any longer.

[1:51:45] » Oh yeah.

[1:51:49] » [snorts and laughter]

[1:51:50] » Okay.

[1:51:52] » That'll be your reason for your quick.

[1:51:54] » Yeah. [clears throat]

[1:51:55] » I cannot do it.

[1:51:56] » Yeah.

[1:51:58] My quick ticket because I can't do my

[1:51:59] yard.

[1:52:04] » Yeah.

[1:52:06] » Right.

[1:52:17] » Yeah. I think we we get stuff from about

[1:52:20] half the municipalities in the county at

[1:52:21] this point.

[1:52:26] » All right.

[1:52:27] » Thanks.

[1:52:28] » Anything else on public works?

[1:52:32] » All right. Uh public safety.

[1:52:34] » Um we have received the reports this

[1:52:36] month. Um the only thing we didn't touch

[1:52:38] upon is we do um refer to

[1:52:44] manager Brahmer. We do have a current

[1:52:47] contract from Lifeline that's been

[1:52:49] signed uh into existent uh into

[1:52:52] existence

[1:52:54] um and that is our 10-year contract that

[1:52:58] we talked about um several meetings ago

[1:53:02] with a few changes.

[1:53:07] significant change.

[1:53:10] » When we had this discussion, dealing

[1:53:11] with the discussion was that uh after a

[1:53:14] fiveyear period, we're going to pay a

[1:53:17] per capita

[1:53:18] » Um payment

[1:53:20] to lifeline for their service, but that

[1:53:24] was discussed here.

[1:53:27] Paula, do you have anything on the codes

[1:53:30] report?

[1:53:46] on public safety. Just a little

[1:53:49] interesting piece of information that um

[1:53:52] we learned

[1:53:54] actually yesterday at the conference.

[1:53:59] Pennsylvania

[1:54:01] leads the nation

[1:54:03] in number of civilian fire deaths

[1:54:07] per year.

[1:54:09] Isn't that sad?

[1:54:14] You know, it's it's awful. And

[1:54:17] you know, you think about why and you

[1:54:20] know, it's it's just awful. But yeah, we

[1:54:24] we were kind of shocked to hear that

[1:54:26] from the state department.

[1:54:29] » And one last thing, I would be remiss in

[1:54:31] not thanking American Post 3 American

[1:54:33] Legion Post 372 for their generous uh

[1:54:36] contribution and that was going to go to

[1:54:38] um

[1:54:39] » The purchase of our new tasers,

[1:54:40] » New tasers. So, I mean, I know they're

[1:54:42] expensive. Uh they wear out after a

[1:54:44] while and uh that was very generous of

[1:54:47] the American Legion to donate that to

[1:54:48] the girl.

[1:54:53] condemnations. I just see four

[1:54:56] properties back on the uh

[1:54:59] being used against it just sitting

[1:55:01] around.

[1:55:04] I know eight North 8 Street property

[1:55:06] right around the corner from just got

[1:55:07] done. So neighbors are very happy to see

[1:55:10] that all about a month from each other.

[1:55:13] Yeah.

[1:55:18] And um the ones

[1:55:22] that the connotations been lifted that

[1:55:25] were in the property reinvestment board

[1:55:29] that has

[1:55:31] um redevelopment authority been

[1:55:34] notified. Okay. Okay.

[1:55:38] » Yeah. Well,

[1:55:42] okay. We didn't talk about them last

[1:55:45] meeting, but I don't So, I don't know. I

[1:55:47] haven't seen the things for this month

[1:55:49] yet. So,

[1:55:59] All right.

[1:56:03] Anything else? Public safety.

[1:56:07] Um, all right. Market house report

[1:56:11] to report there. you have your only

[1:56:15] at this time and we also have a plus one

[1:56:18] which is

[1:56:21] understand it's being used in a

[1:56:22] different area. So that's good to see

[1:56:25] too.

[1:56:39] All right.

[1:56:42] That's right. Michelle's on vacation.

[1:56:46] Michelle is also on vacation [laughter]

[1:56:49] together or not, but we're both on

[1:56:52] vacation. All right. Um

[1:56:57] boards and commissions. We have uh a vac

[1:57:00] one vacancy on the parks and recck

[1:57:02] board.

[1:57:04] We have um some alternate positions, two

[1:57:07] on the zoning hearing board and three on

[1:57:10] planning commission.

[1:57:12] Volunteer applications will be

[1:57:14] considered through the 20th of each

[1:57:15] month. Um

[1:57:19] and then if applicable, they will be put

[1:57:22] on um a council agenda to be approved.

[1:57:28] Uh burough council comments. Uh what's

[1:57:32] » No just uh

[1:57:35] this meeting went a lot better than last

[1:57:38] week. Thankful for that. But thank you

[1:57:41] for all your comments today.

[1:57:44] Appreciate the the decorum today.

[1:57:48] Uh nothing new like say just uh glad to

[1:57:52] hear some

[1:57:54] calmer or an in-depth conversation

[1:57:57] rather than just yelling at each other.

[1:57:59] Uh but one one bright part at least

[1:58:01] after last Tuesday night I was I said I

[1:58:05] Wednesday, Thursday, Friday

[1:58:08] off off media and not checking emails.

[1:58:10] So I had three days of myself needed it

[1:58:12] to get my sanity back. So

[1:58:17] » Just it's nice to see some new faces.

[1:58:23] » Um this learning a lot of this stuff and

[1:58:30] classes and

[1:58:32] I'm looking forward to being able to

[1:58:40] awesome.

[1:58:43] » Uh I don't think I have anything. The

[1:58:45] only thing I was going to mention was

[1:58:47] the zoning thing. Um but got to that in

[1:58:50] legislation. So nothing from me.

[1:58:53] » Um

[1:58:55] as Jean mentioned, we are learning a

[1:58:57] lot. Jack's learning a lot. Um, hearing

[1:59:00] a lot of feedback. We also, you know,

[1:59:03] are hearing that

[1:59:06] it's always nice to know that you're not

[1:59:08] alone in stuff. Um, data centers is

[1:59:13] a huge conversation in just about every

[1:59:16] session we've been in. Um,

[1:59:21] feral cats has been brought up in

[1:59:24] several of the sessions that I've been

[1:59:27] in. Um, so we are not alone. This

[1:59:31] afternoon, we had a session and there

[1:59:34] was a pretty lengthy conversation about

[1:59:37] contentious council meetings and

[1:59:41] council being subjected to some pretty,

[1:59:44] you know, pretty runchy behavior and and

[1:59:50] just what we experienced last night. So,

[1:59:52] it's nice to know that we are we are not

[1:59:55] alone. I mean, one girl has had death

[1:59:57] threats from from members of the public

[2:00:00] and then one of the people that

[2:00:02] threatened to kill her is now on counsel

[2:00:04] with her. I feel bad for the girl. Like,

[2:00:07] [laughter]

[2:00:07] » Yeah, I know. Can you imagine?

[2:00:09] » Yeah. Like, how does that happen? But,

[2:00:12] um, one of the things that I have taken

[2:00:14] away and

[2:00:16] going to process it and bring it up in a

[2:00:19] future workshop, um, I got a model

[2:00:23] ordinance

[2:00:25] from a municipality

[2:00:28] that places a that places a fee

[2:00:32] on every PA skills machine in their

[2:00:35] municipality.

[2:00:36] Um, and it's done by ordinance and

[2:00:40] they're making like

[2:00:42] $20,000

[2:00:44] a year. Um, one one municipality is

[2:00:47] making like 80 grand on the PA based on

[2:00:51] how much they do. And my big concern on

[2:00:55] this was I know a lot of our fraternal

[2:00:56] organizations haven't been there, but

[2:00:59] the fee is charged to the owner of the

[2:01:01] machine. And those fraternal

[2:01:02] organizations do not own the machines.

[2:01:05] They just host them. So the owner would

[2:01:08] have to pay, not the Legion or the BFW

[2:01:12] or any of that. So I'm going to uh I

[2:01:14] pulled that ordinance and I'm going to

[2:01:16] be presenting that

[2:01:18] » Future.

[2:01:19] » Yeah.

[2:01:23] Yep.

[2:01:24] » There was a lot of talk about the state

[2:01:26] looking at taxing this.

[2:01:27] » Yes.

[2:01:28] » Last year.

[2:01:30] They're still mulling it.

[2:01:31] » They're still mulling it.

[2:01:32] » They've m stuff.

[2:01:33] » So,

[2:01:35] » Yeah, I know they're

[2:01:38] » They can't ever get themselves together.

[2:01:41] » All right. Up meeting.

[2:01:43] » The next meeting will be 700 p.m. on

[2:01:46] Tuesday, June 9th. Council will hold a

[2:01:48] regular meeting. I have a motion to

[2:01:50] adjourn.

[2:01:52] » Second.

[2:01:52] » Motion by council person easy.

[2:01:56] » Second by council person Cooper to

[2:01:59] adjourn at 9:02 p.m. All in favor?

[2:02:04] » I. Anyone opposed?

[2:02:07] » We're ajourned.

[2:02:09] » Check this. Tell

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