[0:05] anything um I'm happy to do it all but I'm okay just taking

[0:11] not I I hear you had a big push for deliver it's been a long week yeah saage

[0:19] contract went on Wednesday too so was like a last minute thing that happened

[0:24] this week and there supped about like almost three weeks ago

[0:28] now

[7:28] I

[7:36] yeah it does tell you when you join that Rec it's being recorded just so you

[7:40] know yeah all right so

[7:52] share it's not giv me that as

[7:57] option not my chat no no yeah that's not what I want to

[8:09] share

[8:25] comens all right

[8:30] yeah I'm use the ladies room before we get

[8:34] going so I can

[8:41] see so I'm like gonna be here basically if I could go out that

[8:46] door I didn't nothing that's on my wish

[8:53] L folks are welcome to come in um there's a sign in sheet at the

[9:00] at the

[9:27] entry here

[9:35] the

[9:53] flood so

[9:58] there's

[19:56] okay 6 o00 Bo so I'd like to go ahead and get things rolling um my name is

[20:02] Stephanie Burke I'm a planner here at Rutland Regional Planning Commission and

[20:06] we're so happy to be able to host this public meeting for the town of menden um

[20:12] tonight we'll be looking at the alternatives for the US rout for

[20:17] corridor scoping study this is the second public meeting that we're having

[20:21] for this project and so with that introduction I'd like to just welcome

[20:26] everyone um get settled in and I'll turn things over to the project engineer uh

[20:32] Jen Conley with VHB hi everyone I'm going to briefly go

[20:36] over the agenda and then we're going to do some

[20:39] introductions um I would say as we get into the technical presentation my

[20:44] request would be that um if you have a clarifying question you raise it while

[20:48] I'm presenting we're going to have plenty of time for discussion afterwards

[20:51] and can go back to slides if you have a comment or if you have a preference if

[20:55] you like something or you don't like something but during the the during the

[20:59] presentation please do interrupt if you have a clarifying question so that if

[21:03] everyone has kind of that same question all of that information will get

[21:07] shared iure how the system to advance the slides that's gonna be well Jen's

[21:13] looking at that I did want to REM everybody who's joined virtually

[21:16] received a message when they logged into the meeting but tonight's meeting is

[21:19] being recorded so just for full disclosure okay so this is the agenda um

[21:27] obviously we're going to start the welcome and we'll introduce the team in

[21:30] just a second we're going to go over what the scope and schedule of the

[21:33] project is one of the things we discovered right away at local concerns

[21:37] meeting is we do have a lot of concerns in mendin but the scope of this grant is

[21:41] pretty specific so we have to um do certain things as part of the grant

[21:45] we'll talk about the project purpose and need and that was discussed at the local

[21:49] concerns meeting and we'll talk about other local concerns takeway and then

[21:53] we're going to talk about some overarching themes for the whole

[21:56] Corridor before we break into different Alternatives in pieces along the

[22:01] corridor so you'll understand what that means as we get into it and then we're

[22:04] going to have um some discussion about Alternatives um evaluation and that's us

[22:09] having looked at these Alternatives and we can talk to you about what those

[22:11] potential impacts will be and then we will have a lot of time for public input

[22:16] that's why we're here is to hear how you feel about these different Alternatives

[22:21] um one of the things they are numbered one two and three throughout the quarter

[22:25] but that doesn't mean we don't walk out of here with one in one segment two and

[22:28] another and three and another it's really is um we'll talk about the pros

[22:32] and cons of each um alternative in each segment as we

[22:38] go so oops

[22:46] oh okay so the project team as she in Stephanie introduced me I'm Jen Conley

[22:51] I'm with VHB we are the consultant part of the Consulting team uh with me online

[22:56] going to help me answer some questions that come up with our folks who are

[23:00] remote is Elizabeth sunberg yeah there she is um and with me

[23:05] here is oh Rose O'Brien Rose O'Brien um and

[23:10] in addition we also have Joe vanor who supported us putting together all of the

[23:14] um all the materials that you'll see here today you have already met

[23:18] Stephanie from the Rutland Regional Planning Commission and then we have a

[23:22] team who is helping to advise us and bring us along through the process and

[23:27] so I would love maybe Fred if you could I don't know if everyone's in the room

[23:30] or if some folks are online um I would love it if everyone on the team would if

[23:36] you wouldn't mind introducing yourselves so I'll start um I'm Sarah Tully and I'm

[23:40] the Town Administrator with the town of venden lry uh Fred Bagley uh member of

[23:48] men on the move and a longtime men resident Larry crell steering committee

[23:53] was on the select board for nine years Lancaster I'm a resident with Lon

[24:00] on the move and missing this evening is Seth bridge and he is our select board

[24:05] representative from menen that is on the committee great and then our other

[24:10] partners in this the folks who gave us the Grant and we appreciate them and

[24:13] they also will provide us input as we move along um Ashley Andrews and Ross

[24:17] Gallen I don't know if anyone's Jo if either of them have joined us but we

[24:21] have interacted with them and I'm going to give you a little bit of um input

[24:25] that we've received from them recently on what we're going to talk about

[24:30] today FR anyone else I believe there were there were some oops just like to

[24:36] recognize the presence of Senator Brian Colmore who nicely joined us um and our

[24:41] local representative Jim Harrison thank you both for joining

[24:50] us so the project schedule this has been schedule since um we kicked off back in

[24:55] May um we are at the Alternatives presentation meeting now and um we are

[25:02] going to from here come out with a preferred alternative hopefully we will

[25:06] be working with the steering committee at that point um on the details of that

[25:12] and ultimately it's something that will go to the select board and we'll put

[25:15] together then the final the final plan um the final

[25:21] report so the project purpose and need we'll start with that local concerns

[25:26] meeting recap so we presented a draft project purpose and needs statement and

[25:30] some of the things that weren't included in that were the aesthetic improvements

[25:35] and some um feedback about lowering the speed limit due to safety concerns in

[25:39] the corridor um and during the course of the meeting we really talked about the

[25:43] existing conditions what what we were looking at out there what the um the

[25:48] traffic volumes were where the crashes had occurred um as well as some natural

[25:52] resource mapping and then public input with this was a local concern meeting so

[25:58] most of the meeting was spent hearing from you folks what what what was the

[26:01] concerns and again speeding unsafe pedestrian Crossings um access

[26:06] management big driveways that are difficult to to walk across um delivery

[26:11] movements lack of Road markings or protection for those vulnerable users

[26:16] and just various safety concerns which I know have continued obviously to be a

[26:20] concern in the

[26:25] corridor so the project purpose the purpose of the town of menden US Route

[26:31] four coridor scoping study is to identify improvements to enhance safety

[26:35] for all users along and across US Route 4 Bor through the town of Menan while

[26:42] enhancing access and Aesthetics to the Village district and the recreational

[26:47] resources so it isn't just in kind of the village district there was some

[26:51] concern also with the number of recreation resources that we have in the

[26:54] corridor and how can we make traveling to them from them and belong them a

[26:59] little

[27:01] safer so the needs were um there's no B pedestrian and bicycle accommodation the

[27:07] corridor lacks safe Crossings sidewalks and bike Lanes um you know in the

[27:12] commercial destinations and recre recreational resources really make it

[27:16] challenging uh if you want AC cross to access those things vehicular traffic

[27:20] calming uh the speeds on this quter are very high I'm sure that's not a surprise

[27:25] to any of you um and they've been noted as such and the data that's collected by

[27:29] VR um access management and intersection operations there are a number of

[27:34] locations as we look on the corridor that have giant driveways and what that

[27:39] does is it leads to um uncontrolled movements I'd say you don't know if

[27:43] you're walking across that driveway if someone's going to pull out way over

[27:46] here or way over here what angle they're going to be at whereas with a tighter

[27:50] access it's a more controlled situation people have to do it more at a 90 degree

[27:54] angle which makes it a little slower and a little safer

[27:58] um Transit improvements was were also mentioned the corridor is served

[28:01] obviously by the bus and um stops lack any kind of formal

[28:09] accommodation so the project area is pretty clear it is the uh us rout four

[28:14] corridor from one end to the other and mend end so it goes from Rutland town to

[28:18] Killington and includes that that entire

[28:24] Corridor so after we left the um the local concerns meeting and we have this

[28:29] purpose and need I think a couple of overarching themes came up when we

[28:33] started thinking about what what our alternative should be here so I'm going

[28:37] to just talk about some of these overarching themes to give you something

[28:40] to think about and we can get into discussion as I said later once once we

[28:44] start evaluating alternative the the thing with these themes is that it they

[28:49] are um they can be applied to any part of the corridor and so that's why we're

[28:53] kind of bringing them up as a separate thing straight away so one of those is

[28:58] access management there's already been as I a few times you've already heard me

[29:02] say something about the the large driveways what we're showing here um in

[29:07] this image in green is what could be let's call it a grass Island to better

[29:13] control some of the access points this is just taking a a spot at Allen pools

[29:19] in with the orchard across the street to see can we tighten up some of those

[29:22] driveways of course you have to do it on a caseby Case basis because some like

[29:27] Allen pools I can't tighten it up like I could a residential driveway because we

[29:31] still need to allow for the move extractor trailer to pull in and and do

[29:35] its thing on their site um whereas some some other driveways it's more

[29:39] appropriate to go with a a narrower opening but the theme Remains the Same

[29:45] that to have that much pavement makes the driver feel while they're driving on

[29:50] us4 like they're on a bigger highway I like to um the perfect example of this I

[29:56] find is Killington when you travel through Killington because the pavement

[30:00] just keeps going up to those businesses it feels as wi it is as wide as a

[30:04] highway that's why it feels as wide as the highway and people really lay on the

[30:08] gas there um as soon as you start defining that edge and making people

[30:13] feel a little tighter it does make people drive a little slower so this

[30:18] this access management will improve the safety for folks walking along us4 but

[30:22] it will also help to control those speeds it makes the driver feel like

[30:26] they're in a place and have and they go a little slower to have um something on

[30:30] both sides instead of just AAL pavement is that a clear concept people

[30:36] know what're what we're talking about

[30:41] there the other thing is safe Crossings and Transit stops so that came up and it

[30:47] is it is a a tougher challenge to um accomplish on a quarter as varied as

[30:52] this at the far left end we have the um the village District and there could be

[30:58] a different type of Crossing in a village District maybe than there would

[31:02] be out on us4 and so what we tried to do here was identify spots that seemed

[31:08] appropriate for potential Crossings and um we we'll talk a little bit more about

[31:13] um how to accommodate Transit stops as well but that's kind of an overarching

[31:17] theme that that we would like to try to incorporate as we go through and build

[31:22] the

[31:25] Alternatives a longterm ter consideration theme is how to treat the

[31:30] climbing Lanes one of the things that I was really struck by was the concern

[31:36] about high speeds and as I said The Wider the road is the more comfortable

[31:39] you feel driving it at a higher rate of speed so we did an analysis of those

[31:44] climbing Lanes to make sure they are warranted at all locations now I don't

[31:49] think anyone can deny that once you turn that corner past Sugar and Spice that

[31:53] that is quite a hill and if you're stuck behind a heavy truck you're going to go

[31:58] pretty slow and it's going to be frustrating so there certainly are

[32:01] locations that based on the steepness and the number of trucks that climbing

[32:04] lanes are very appropriate however our evaluations showed that there might be

[32:09] some other stretches along this quarter and those are shown in green where it

[32:13] doesn't meet the the warrant for climbing Lan and so we did have a

[32:17] conversation with VR about this and of course because this grant as I mentioned

[32:22] has some limitations this is really a bicycle and pedestrian study Grant so

[32:27] elimination of a climbing Lane is certainly beyond the scope of this study

[32:30] and not something that would be evaluated until a real you know um a big

[32:35] construction job is done on the segment of us4 but V Trend did say it isn't off

[32:41] the table in a longterm way and so that's something that I think I thought

[32:47] was was at least a good potential for a way to slow the traffic down one of the

[32:52] issues we know is the safety at the other parts of the quarter not just in

[32:56] the in the village has been a problem especially this summer and so anything

[33:01] we can do to cause the drivers to travel a little slower and even if that means

[33:06] sometimes you might be stuck behind a truck um I think it is an advantage

[33:10] towards slowing that traffic down so again this isn't something that

[33:14] ultimately will be a buildable project that comes out of this grant but it is

[33:18] something that we would put in if if the the group if um the engagement says yes

[33:24] we're supportive of that that you could put into a long-term recommendation for

[33:27] the

[33:31] agent so now I'm going to get into those draft

[33:35] Alternatives so we divided the quarter up to there little lag into three

[33:39] segments so the first segment is what we called the you know the district segment

[33:44] that's from Townline Road to meal Lake Drive and that is where we want that

[33:48] Village District feel um we want that to be a little different than the more

[33:52] rural segment segment two is a short segment but it's an important one

[33:57] because that's a transition between what is the Village area and what is the more

[34:02] rural area and so we wanted to treat that separately and have some

[34:06] conversation specifically about that area and then the final segment is is

[34:10] how do we want to treat from there all the way to the town

[34:18] line so I won't list them here because I think it's more effective to actually

[34:22] see them so in segment one which is the village the first alter alternative is

[34:27] really a low build I would call it it's working with the existing pavement to

[34:33] better define space for bicyclists and pedestrians and the way we can do that

[34:38] is instead of having 14 foot Lanes we don't need 14 foot Lanes a more standard

[34:43] Lane width is about 11 to 12 feet we can constrain the driver with the roadway

[34:49] striping with with the the striping to create a little buffer space and then

[34:54] establishing space on the edge of the road for bicyclist and

[34:58] pestering so this is a lower cost alternative that just does a better job

[35:03] than what you have out there today by making the lane widths narrower to slow

[35:07] the traffic creating a buffer which we hope those cars don't drive into we

[35:12] we're telling them where we want them to drive and we don't want them within two

[35:15] feet of our cyclist or our pedestrian and then defining that space for

[35:19] bicyclists and pedestrians so as I said this is more of

[35:22] a low build alternative is this looking West this is right now we are looking

[35:29] West yes this is that ski shop here in the far distance and J is there withd

[35:35] right now to accomplish that in both east and west bound Lanes there is yes

[35:40] so as you'll see in the picture on the left the existing is about a 14ot lane

[35:43] in each Direction and a six foot shoulder so each side is about 20 feet

[35:48] wide so I suggest we reallocate it and this is just at an example location it

[35:52] varies by the width varies a little by location but at this location if we

[35:56] reallocate that 20t on each side to an 11t Lane a twoot buffer and a 7 foot

[36:02] shoulder that does a nicer job of keeping the cars away from you while

[36:07] you're walking on that shoulder or while you're riding your bike on that shoulder

[36:11] is that sorry does that at all increase um the potential for headon

[36:18] collisions no 11 feet has has been VR is going to 11 ft in most cases it is it's

[36:23] shown to be a safe um l a you want the bicycle Riders on the

[36:30] opposite side of that line I would assume right in the line correct I don't

[36:34] know if it work for you maybe if you put some grooves in certain areas of that

[36:37] would help you out a little that that's one of the thing that is allowed in the

[36:41] guidance that in those two feet you can use you know rumbles of some sort do

[36:45] people's driveways but in certain open areas it wouldn't be worse yeah the

[36:49] challenge if save someone's life driving at night too you know y yeah definitely

[36:54] um one of the challenges you run into with doing anything with grooves though

[36:57] is the noise they make so it it tends VR tends to get into trouble when they in

[37:02] incorporate those near when they first been which was really good move because

[37:05] doesn't make people go on the side of the road I thought people

[37:07] had B breaks hear that yeah but certainly is

[37:12] something that you know that buffer area you could put that in just to remind

[37:16] people I mean it certainly I will tell you when you drive in the snow which we

[37:19] all do um having those in the center lines when C line I mean you know the

[37:24] road's covered in snow you don't know where that double is it's a nice

[37:27] reminder plus a lot of tourists and other people some truck drivers they

[37:30] just take the wrong lane and try to keep the momentum B right there was another

[37:36] that my question too okay okay so we're clear on this is like

[37:41] I said I i' call this a low build because it's a little less expensive

[37:45] working with what we have so again in segment one in the village district one

[37:49] of the things we looked at was putting in a 5 foot sidewalk on one side of the

[37:53] street now with that one of the things that patrian was concerned about is

[37:57] still maintaining the roadway width so they want there to be um a six foot

[38:04] shoulder uh and in this case an 11 foot lane 11 to 12 feet that they tend to

[38:08] like but um I think in the in the village District we convinced them 11

[38:12] feet is appropriate um and so that does come out to be five feet wider than what

[38:18] we currently have so I call your attention to that now we'll get into the

[38:22] evaluation later that does have an impact that five sidewalk then is

[38:28] outside of what is the existing paved width so if you think of where the

[38:32] pavement ends starting at that point is where your sidewalk would be so that

[38:38] does have an impact it is still within the right of way it is still within

[38:41] vran's property but it will have a perceived impact by the people who live

[38:46] along that stretch you'll you'll feel like people walking on that sidewalk are

[38:50] closer to your house than you're used to the traveling public

[38:54] being any questions on not yes how much pedestrian traffic is

[39:00] there is more well so there isn't a lot of pedestrian traffic now but I think a

[39:04] lot of that is because of how inhospitable the environment is and we

[39:08] know we see people cross between sugar and spice and the mini golf for example

[39:14] so there are some pedestrians we know that the coffee shop obviously created a

[39:19] new destination and there is the hope I know um the steering committee told us

[39:23] with some um potential changes to zoning and more more businesses coming in they

[39:29] want to encourage this sort of environment and create more of a a

[39:33] downtown now this is part of your grant program that you're dealing with this

[39:37] right now yes so what ends up to is a grant big enough to do that or should

[39:41] you be looking at a tiff well let's let's talk about um the grant process

[39:45] the grant that we have currently is to do the study and come out with

[39:48] recommended Alternatives that is a tool the town then uses to apply for the next

[39:53] grant for construction so it is something when we get to the end we'll

[39:57] talk a little bit about costs of things and um you know you don't want this to

[40:02] be yes of course you could say yes we want a shared use path on both sides of

[40:06] the road in fact we want separated C great separated Crossings let's put

[40:10] bridges over for people to cross that's great but that might not be a fundable

[40:14] project so I you know when we get to that point we'll talk about um you know

[40:19] we want to create we want this to be a plan that is buildable and implementable

[40:25] ultimately which is again why it's important P

[40:29] trans and talk to them about these things so this is another alternative

[40:34] for segment one what this does is it it creates that eight foot chair PA use

[40:39] path instead of a five- foot sidewalk it's now wide enough that someone can be

[40:44] riding their bike on it as well um so that takes that bicycle traffic if you

[40:49] are a strong cyclist we know there's so many out there who ride route four all

[40:53] the time which is great for them but not all of us feel that comfortable on Route

[40:58] four and would much rather be on a path on the side so similar to the sidewalk

[41:02] alternative obviously this does have an impact this does widen things um and you

[41:07] know as such that does have an imp but it does help that cyclist which

[41:13] you you know the the goal as I said the purpose and need of this study was to

[41:18] attempt to better accommodate um BOS and pedestrians

[41:25] both that extend outside the RightWay no there's still plenty of RightWay

[41:31] yes so um in segment one as we talked about climbing Lanes we have we I have

[41:37] two things to touch on here um the the beginning of it from Town Line Road is

[41:42] warranted it is steep enough the truck numbers are high enough it is

[41:46] appropriate to have a climbing Lane but as we all know you feel like it closes

[41:49] and then it almost immediately opens back up again and um one of the things

[41:54] that we could do here is close it sooner which would provide in that Village

[41:58] District a um you know a lower traveling speed because it would calm the traffic

[42:03] a little bit so this is certainly something we we hope VR will consider as

[42:08] as projects move

[42:13] forward so one of the things I'm going to mention here as I said one of our

[42:16] themes is strategic Crossings and when we get into the conversation we can talk

[42:21] about like I said I have been here often enough I've been to Bull Sugar and Spice

[42:26] and men and minii golf often enough and I just drive through this corter I know

[42:30] that I have seen enough pedestrians Crossing at that location it was also

[42:35] suggested to me another potential Crossing location especially if there's

[42:38] a sidewalk or a shered 's path on one side of the street would be down by the

[42:42] orchard in in Allen pools and so those are two locations that folks have

[42:46] brought up to us in in public feedback um we can talk about whether those are

[42:51] the right places if we were going to put in crosswalks or if we should be

[42:54] thinking about other locations

[42:59] in in this location in a village environment it would be a striped

[43:03] crosswalk like you're used to seeing here in R and do you expect traffic to

[43:07] stop while people are walking through that or how how you trying to figure

[43:10] that out yeah I mean that is the law we know

[43:16] trying of course and so what we try to do with this is we're trying to slow the

[43:21] traffic with our design and bringing the paving the aspect to it yeah yeah

[43:27] slower it's then easier for you to see that Gap it's easier for them to see you

[43:31] before they're on top of you you know it does make a aest and Crossing is a more

[43:35] safe option do they those lights they have where you can push a button and

[43:41] they flash that that is always an option yeah to have that sort of a treatment um

[43:46] we can talk about just in general lighting I know that's something I think

[43:49] Fred had brought up is you know whether lighting was um you know is lighting

[43:54] appropriate isn't in the right places and certainly where we expect

[43:57] pedestrians to across is a very appropriate place to be careful with our

[44:00] lighting have you looked at um lighting up that whole Road I have not looked at

[44:04] it but that is something that at the end of this as we get into our discussion

[44:08] about Alternatives that's when we have that conversation if we think that's

[44:11] something that's appropriate because something like lighting and any

[44:14] aesthetic improvements can be added to any um any of the

[44:21] Alternatives um and especially if we do put in a sidewalk or a crosswalk um

[44:26] periodic lighting along it is a nice way to bring drivers's attention to the fact

[44:30] there's an expectation of pedestrians even if they're not there at the moment

[44:33] there's the expectation of them being

[44:38] there all right if there wasn't any technical question on segment one I'm

[44:43] going to move into segment two anything pop up on line yet Rose

[44:49] okay all right so again this is the what I call the transition zone from Meadow

[44:55] Lake to Medway there we um and so right now this is

[45:01] just a screenshot of a certain spot that's 44 and a half fet wide um it one

[45:06] of the things I don't like about this area is the 15.5 foot um Lane in the 6

[45:12] and 1/2 foot shoulder how many of us have seen someone fade over to the right

[45:17] and someone they'll so they'll be driving to a breast here that is what we

[45:21] don't want because that is everyone jockeying to go faster and so that that

[45:26] is definitely a problem and an 11 foot shoulder becomes a problem at times too

[45:30] because you can have someone think that that is Lan as well so although it's

[45:34] great to have a generous shoulder to make a a cyclist or a pedestrian feel

[45:38] safe they don't feel safe if a car comes down because 11 feet is wide enough to

[45:42] be be a lane so this is again kind of the lighter alternative because it still

[45:47] works with the width we have it reallocates that width now um because

[45:52] again the width varies in this transition zone significantly what I've

[45:56] put here is we could go with a 12T Lane and we could have a minimum of a twoot

[46:00] buffer again to Define that space for pedestrians in a Min minimum of a six

[46:04] foot shoulder the buffer space however as the road widens the buffer and that

[46:11] shoulder space can get bigger what we want to do is not necessarily have a tw-

[46:16] foot um buffer into really really wide space I don't want someone to think it's

[46:20] a lane we want to balance we want it to be clear this is too narrow to be a lane

[46:24] this is the buffer in the the bikes and the the pets are are on the other side

[46:28] of that and one of the things I would like to do in this segment if we can is

[46:33] make the line striping match what we want that until they're out of this

[46:38] transition zone it doesn't widen so that folks can use it in two lanes as they're

[46:44] getting their speed on and going up the hill we want to keep it in a single Lane

[46:47] and keep the speeds low in this transition zone you ever cross an area

[46:52] because I've seen a lot of people use the shoulder think it's a lane it's

[46:57] pretty SC most most definitely um yes so there is there there's uh you'll see

[47:02] some markings actually in the next um the next concept um that Define that and

[47:07] one of the things you do especially if you're trying to transition from what

[47:10] will be a high speed as you're come down the hill into the village District which

[47:14] we're hoping we're really going to lower that speed um you paint those lines so

[47:18] they get closer so that you feel like you're accelerating even if you're

[47:22] keeping your same speed and it if that is another effective tool to to work

[47:26] with the drivers joh if you put lines on the opening there because they w't stick

[47:30] in the lane but if you just put some yellow lines through it it would

[47:34] probably stop people from doing that yeah even the double line is very

[47:38] effective because it you know if there's a single line it could be just a lan

[47:42] line once it's two it it does cue folks that it's something

[47:47] different so one of the things we also talked about is in this transition zone

[47:52] should we do something like striping with delineated marking there should we

[47:56] do something with either banners or signage or something so this is the same

[48:02] Geographic um not Geographic excuse me this is the same like Lane configuration

[48:06] as I showed before but it's just should we do other things to make people

[48:11] realize they're arriving at a place because that does tend to make people

[48:15] slow down and I'm going to give some other example those were just a few

[48:18] examples so these are other Gateway treatment examples that people use

[48:22] whether it's fencing whether it is a line of planted treat that makes you

[48:27] feel like you're in a place whether it's banners whether it's lighting um there's

[48:31] a number of options there and you know we can talk about that when we get to

[48:36] discussion but that's alternative to is really about we can do whatever we want

[48:41] with the striping but how else can we communicate to the driver they've

[48:44] arrived somewhere because this section I don't think is appropriate for

[48:49] pedestrian treatment it's very steep it's you know drops off it it it doesn't

[48:54] call out for that sort of arrival we want them to realize they're arriving at

[48:58] a place in a different way and so we're going to try to think of what cues we

[49:02] could do so that's our second

[49:08] alternative and then our third alternative is again looking at what we

[49:13] can do with widths and how we could if we did tighten it up as I showed you

[49:18] before we had on that one a minimum of two feet in the buffer up to four feet

[49:23] shoulder was a minimum of I think six feet and it could be if we kept the F

[49:28] narrow here in this example for you can see the the red shading is two and a

[49:34] half feet of the road goes away basically should we make the road

[49:37] physically narrower is there an opportunity in this transition zone to

[49:42] really make the driver feel like they're they're being tightened and they need to

[49:46] go slower to communicate to them and so in this situation it's not just striping

[49:51] the edge to edge it's should we actually narrow that a little so they feel a

[49:55] little more constrained as they're coming into this

[50:03] Z any questions on segment two we had a question online about segment one it was

[50:09] asked if the shared use path or sidewalk would be from metalik drive to Townline

[50:14] Road and what would happen to the cyclists and pedestrians once that ended

[50:18] if that alternative was chosen so that can be determined today we laid it out

[50:24] as if it would be that higher length to answer that question and um in

[50:29] situations where you have a shared use path that isn't leading to something

[50:32] else you do typically sign that and you think about where the folks are going to

[50:36] want to go at the end so do you put a turnaround at the end or do you assume

[50:41] that they may head down metal Lake Road or you know what what is it that they

[50:44] want to do at that point and think about where where else they can go whether

[50:48] it's just for recreation and they'll you turn and go back or whether um but

[50:53] either way we we would sign if that the path would

[50:59] um just for discussion um we also thought that it was a safe access to get

[51:06] off of um route four and go down Park Lane into Post Road in Rutland town and

[51:11] be able to access their Recreation H area and then they're doing a sidewalk

[51:16] project off of Post Road so I think we're not the only Town looking at this

[51:21] Killington is underway with a study similar to this on

[51:26] um on rout four as well so I would expect that Rutland toown may be

[51:31] interested in doing something similar as well before you get down into Rin

[51:37] City can you go back one slide to the one where you reduce the total width by

[51:42] two feet is are there guard rails and stuff and that's that would yes and so

[51:47] in this in this case we wouldn't suggest to eliminate the guard rails but I mean

[51:52] if you if you were to to you have to move the guard in is that is that you

[51:57] don't because the guard rails are still protecting from the hazard the hazard is

[52:00] the Steep Bank yeah so in that case the guard rails can stay where they are um

[52:05] it's just a matter of if it is gravel for those last two feet even if you were

[52:09] to go astray you would you know the idea is you still feel like you are are

[52:15] narrowed you're so there's no federal requirement that the guardrails have to

[52:19] be at the edge of the pavement there can be a twoof foot buffer or something

[52:22] there certainly can yes I mean in a lot of cases guard gril or even on the other

[52:26] side of you know pedestrian facility I

[52:37] mean all right getting into segment three so to start out with segment Three

[52:42] As We Know looks a lot like this most of the time um and so this is that same

[52:47] kind of low build that we talked about this is reallocating that existing

[52:52] pavement to make the leans slightly narrower so that we're able to get that

[52:56] buffer and to get that six foot shoulder um and depending on the area in some

[53:02] some places I can tell you again much like segment two that buffer in that

[53:07] shoulder could be pretty sizable because the the roadway width is very

[53:11] significant but this does a better job of not creating what feels like a lane

[53:17] for example you know the S feet and existing you have a 12ft lane a 12 and

[53:21] a2t lane and then a 7ot shoulder that does feel like those are Highway itions

[53:25] you feel like you can drive it like you're on I 89 and so if we are to

[53:29] narrow the lanes and put in that that narrow buffer to to just provide that um

[53:36] that space between the the cyclists and the pedestrians and the traveling public

[53:40] that's again that low build

[53:45] alternative okay alternative two is hard to see but it is an 8ft shered juice

[53:51] path on the North side now one of the things that we'll get into there's a

[53:56] there's a bunch of evaluation that we talk about impacts as you might imagine

[54:00] there are some impacts we can easily accommodate an 8 foot shared juuse path

[54:06] within the right of way the right of way here is incred was it 30 feet outside of

[54:10] the pavement width on each side yeah like 25 to 35 yeah so there's 25 to 30

[54:15] feet of Right of Way Beyond what is currently paved so we are able to

[54:20] accommodate this what we would suggest is a shared use path that would not be

[54:25] located right next to the road obviously it's safer if it's a little separated

[54:29] and it'll be a nicer path to travel if it's a little separated however you'll

[54:34] see and I think it might be my next slide um there are some constraints we'd

[54:38] have to think about when we think about a shared use path though we were

[54:42] thinking about what we had talked about here and what our purpose and need said

[54:46] in the locations where it may be appropriate for a shared use path would

[54:50] be between the New Forest Service headquarters where we expect there to be

[54:55] a hub of activity and people that are going

[55:00] hiking excuse me we know also that obviously at the other end of the

[55:05] corridor there is um the Appalachian Trail The Long Trail the Catamount Trail

[55:11] and soon we're going to have the bellamont trail passing through this

[55:21] area um so looking at what an8

[55:31] foot if you at the local concerns meeting you've seen this graphic and

[55:38] this calls out some of those things I just mentioned the the forest Service

[55:41] headquarters is located down here the Vista senior living and the um

[55:47] Killington Resort housing in the middle and then further up is where the

[55:51] appalation trail and the Long Trail Crossing

[55:54] is this is the resource mapping that I shared although it's hard to see the key

[56:01] you can tell that there are a number of wetlands in the bright green there are a

[56:05] number of river Brook Etc Crossings there are there are certainly some

[56:10] hazards now um talking to permitting experts is still something that is

[56:16] permittable it is possible it will have some impacts to Wetlands but those

[56:21] impacts will be linear and will be on an existing transportation

[56:25] quor so it is they are likely to be approved and in addition we have the

[56:31] flexibility although we would like a larger buffer if we did put in a shared

[56:35] use path we have the ability to move it closer to the road the road Edge in a

[56:40] lot of places has almost a 10- foot shoulder and then a 10- foot like graval

[56:44] area that's pretty much graded so we could get pretty close to the edge of

[56:48] Road and have very little impact to um to Wetlands as a result so

[56:56] um excuse me I'm so sorry ultimately a p a path like this

[57:02] we're showing it for about two and a half miles um does have obviously a cost

[57:07] associated with it and we'll get into some of that in the

[57:15] evaluation we also thought about a shared use path on the cell set I I'm so

[57:20] sorry have a tickle in my throat now

[57:28] we didn't have another question online just about segment two and if there

[57:33] could be an option for creating a separated path near the river um so

[57:38] bikes and PS aren't up on that section of Route

[57:41] four um that is probably an option but we have to look at um there are

[57:48] certainly of a part as we know where the river is within the right of way and so

[57:53] that may be possible the exact alignment would have to be worked out as it were

[57:57] to move along if that is the preferred alternative we' do a little bit of

[58:01] looking at what that potential alignment could look like um and that is

[58:05] appropriate but obviously Where the River crosses outside of the the right

[58:09] of way it becomes a little bit more difficult because that land is not under

[58:12] um VR

[58:15] control um so this this contemplated the sheries path on the South Side uh

[58:21] similar issu similar resource you know constraints but the RightWay is generous

[58:28] and it certainly is a potential alternative how do you get over the

[58:32] cobbert there's some huge certs going up on that

[58:36] road well I would liken it to the existing um you know the way the Long

[58:41] Trail is handled you can do a really low profile Bridge or

[58:46] something you know or or put in a smaller Culvert or you know an

[58:51] appropriately sized Culvert depending on where exactly it's going to be but it is

[58:55] certainly a challenge and in some cases especially when the menion brook is Big

[58:59] it may have to come up by the road by the road for a bit some of the C on my

[59:03] store is probably you know bigger than the ceiling and one of the things we'

[59:07] have to look at too is you know what is the the life cycle where are those culit

[59:12] in their life cycle and is it appropriate is there a Time coming where

[59:15] they're going to be replaced anyway could they be sized to accommodate well

[59:18] you go I don't know how you do it I'll just no no no it's definitely it's

[59:23] certainly a consideration any other questions could you just um

[59:28] review on on each of the three Alternatives um what if it's going to be

[59:34] on one side or the other side what about the cyclists who are going in the

[59:38] opposite direction yeah so in any of these Alternatives we would still have

[59:43] much like um we wouldn't be changing the roadway

[59:49] configuration so we would probably still propose something like this for the

[59:54] roadway configuration to define space on Route four because you are always going

[59:59] to have a cyclist who prefers to be on the road and not be on a path with as

[1:00:03] lot pedestrian pedestrians walking you will have that cyclist who wants to get

[1:00:08] speed and and act almost more like a car and I was I was thinking of cyclists who

[1:00:13] are using the pavement on one side of the road yet don't want to cross all the

[1:00:19] traffic just to get on uh the selected path on the other side entirely possible

[1:00:25] and um and in this case we're still trying to Define that space with

[1:00:29] buffers on the road thank you they vary the whist pretty wildly on that road

[1:00:34] though don't they they do yeah they really do yeah yeah and so that's

[1:00:38] something obviously I think that I think well I think it's obvious but we'll see

[1:00:42] if you all agree um that you know moving forward in a long-term situation that we

[1:00:46] would really want them to be a little more careful about what th what those

[1:00:49] Lane widths would be and again to manage the shoulder if the shoulder is going to

[1:00:53] stay as wide as it is let's make sure it's defined with a buffer to to provide

[1:00:58] that extra space because if you are within three feet of a tractor trailer

[1:01:01] going by you you don't feel so good you know so you really wanted to find that

[1:01:06] buffer

[1:01:11] space any other

[1:01:15] questions all right then we get

[1:01:22] into so one of the other things we talked about were bus stops now bus

[1:01:26] stops are a little bit more complicated because again this segment is a real

[1:01:31] rural segment um and it isn't there isn't one a location or an appropriate

[1:01:39] place to put a bus shelter that's going to be outside of vr's clear Zone that

[1:01:43] they like to maintain so one of the things that we were thinking about and

[1:01:47] there is one in the study area but it is not as good so the farle picture is you

[1:01:52] know a pull off that's in the the study area is right near Willer road that

[1:01:56] pulloff however is very long and you can at a high rate of speed pull into that

[1:02:01] pull off that is not what we're proposing here what we would be talking

[1:02:05] about is one of the other two on the right which are two others that are

[1:02:08] located on Route four that I was familiar with they are very tight if

[1:02:11] you're in a car and you want to pull into that pull off you have to be going

[1:02:14] about 10 miles an hour to pull into it it's very short it comes up on you in

[1:02:20] um the the way it is designed does not allow for a car to enter it at a high

[1:02:27] rate of Speed without them hitting the guardrail and so what we would propose

[1:02:31] and VR would be amendable to is especially at all Turnpike Road which is

[1:02:36] really the location that has someone waiting for the bus the most often that

[1:02:40] I have seen it and we've gotten the information from the bus and it's

[1:02:43] confirmed that's really the stop other stops have a person occasionally but

[1:02:47] this is the location that very consistently has um Transit folks

[1:02:51] waiting for transit or getting dropped off um I would propose something on the

[1:02:56] far side from Old Turnpike that um just provides a little bit of space there for

[1:03:01] for the driver for the um person waiting for Transit but that but also does it in

[1:03:06] a way that the transit allow it but that it is not appropriate for someone to

[1:03:11] enter at a high rate of speed that the driver would not be tempted to use it in

[1:03:16] some way so that it is a safe space for a pedestrian to

[1:03:23] stand and did you look at turnarounds at all

[1:03:27] in that road because that's a big problem too we did not I mean it's a

[1:03:31] little bit beyond the scope of you know there no I mean I have people do it in

[1:03:36] my driveway all time which I don't really care it's not a big deal um but

[1:03:39] it seems to be a problem with people you know get or something like that and they

[1:03:43] have to turn around which would maybe we can slow them down so they don't miss

[1:03:47] their turn y so one of the things we talked about

[1:03:52] is in this segment if I were to put in strategic Crossings where would I put

[1:03:56] them and how would I do that

[1:04:00] so and again we can get into a debate later but the locations I identified is

[1:04:05] obviously that existing Appalachian Trail Long Trail Crossing we know all

[1:04:09] summer there's people crossing there um another location is a is at mend

[1:04:13] Mountain View with the um discussions that VRA may be converted as well to um

[1:04:19] Resort housing if that ends up happening and there's cross traffic there's a

[1:04:25] carless population at both locations who work together up on the mountain there

[1:04:29] may be cross you know pedestrians Crossing there and there may be some

[1:04:34] folks associated with the forest head um headquarters that are catching the bus

[1:04:40] or you know whether it's they work there or they went there when they're hiking

[1:04:44] some of the trail or something that may become a destination the road across

[1:04:48] from it too yes Y road across the street from it um so those were a couple of

[1:04:54] locations I identified we certainly can talk about those a little bit more as as

[1:04:58] we um as we move along and we can talk about what those impacts would

[1:05:04] be and again as I said that long-term consideration something that um brr

[1:05:09] could keep in the back of their minds for when they reconstruct this room

[1:05:13] you'll see in segment three there is a an area

[1:05:17] that's now although for that stretch things are pretty flat and that could be

[1:05:22] a candidate for elimination the climbing Lane it is only a half a mile long it is

[1:05:28] or it's less than half a mile I believe it is not long enough to transition that

[1:05:33] climbing Lane in and really have any distance to travel before you have to

[1:05:37] transition it back out again so we do not suggest that it be eliminated in

[1:05:41] that segment however there is what I believe is about two and a half miles or

[1:05:45] something to that effect of additional climbing Lane that makes sense if we can

[1:05:51] eliminate it to be able to eliminate it and that would in that far section of

[1:05:55] the corridor might help us to be able to narrow the road and slow the traffic

[1:06:00] down and although there still would be climbing Lane through a big chunk of

[1:06:04] mendan if it's slower and calmed at one end and slower and calmed at the other

[1:06:09] end that just that changes kind of the way the driver is approaching driving

[1:06:13] through the sper again this is a longer term

[1:06:17] consideration and this is something beyond the scope of this project but is

[1:06:21] something that came to mind to me when we were really concerned about speeds

[1:06:25] and how do we change the character of the now I'm going to Bor you to death

[1:06:31] with a million CS here the evaluation Matrix so some this first one is

[1:06:36] particularly important which is thinking about cost safety and Community

[1:06:40] character in segment one and so as you can see in general all of our

[1:06:46] Alternatives bring us some improvement defining the space better or providing a

[1:06:51] separate facility is going to make bicycles to The Pedestrian feel a little

[1:06:54] safer it can in some cases improve the aesthetic it does satisfy the purpose

[1:06:59] and need of this study every alternative gives us some positive the uh cost

[1:07:05] associated with alternative one which is working with the just changing pavement

[1:07:09] markings obviously is less than an alternative that provides a sidewalk or

[1:07:14] a share

[1:07:18] DP any questions so far we can back if you're

[1:07:23] doing the first that's cheaper yes you develop that into a do you understand

[1:07:29] what I'm saying yes you know so was you know you laying out x amount of dolls

[1:07:33] and if it seems to be working you can push it into the other area certainly

[1:07:36] that is something that ultimately we can talk about is how to phase improvements

[1:07:40] as well if there's something that you like here but that you think you know if

[1:07:45] we want to be competitive to get another Grant maybe we go for this and we see it

[1:07:48] do pedestrian start using the quter and if so we go for that we can talk about

[1:07:52] some of that as well

[1:07:55] all right in segment two which is our transition zone alternative one again

[1:08:00] was working with the current width and making some changes alternative to is

[1:08:04] considering some plac making um and again that could be a wide variety of

[1:08:09] things depending on what you all are interested in we thought um banners or

[1:08:14] you know something to Define your arriving at the town or and then um you

[1:08:20] know the delineated markings and again providing the buffering for the

[1:08:30] shoulders any questions on

[1:08:38] that okay and then the third one is the rural segment now again alternative one

[1:08:45] does start to improve things for cyclist and pedestrians by defining space the

[1:08:51] other Alternatives in a bigger way meet the purpose in need because obviously if

[1:08:55] you have allow those cyclists and pedestrians to be in a separate facility

[1:08:59] it's safer for

[1:09:06] them then we start talking about those anticipated um impacts as I have laid

[1:09:12] out to you the right of we this Corridor is very generous so we don't anticipate

[1:09:16] our Alternatives having an impact on the right of way we don't anticipate much of

[1:09:21] an impact to utilities there could be some depending on where we're going to

[1:09:26] try to avoid the wet lens which is also identified as a potential impact

[1:09:30] depending on the alignment there are some utilities there that um you know

[1:09:33] there's some overhead wires that um we need to work around those pools Etc any

[1:09:38] impact as I said would likely be on the Lower Side um but those those impacts

[1:09:44] there is a potential for that because unlike working in the roadway footprint

[1:09:48] we are going further

[1:09:52] out in segment two we really are not

[1:09:56] proposing to make the road further out the road is plenty wide and our

[1:10:00] Alternatives who have presented here today are trying to make it feel

[1:10:03] narrower and trying to Define it so the impacts really are are nothing in this

[1:10:09] in this area with the exception of the cost that we've already

[1:10:13] talked and then in segment three there are um you know a little bit more

[1:10:19] there's some agricultural lands that need to be considered there's Wetlands

[1:10:22] that need to be considered for potential impacts we do have plenty of right of

[1:10:26] way that is not an issue um but there are going to be new impervious surfaces

[1:10:31] so that is something that um is just something we need to keep track of and

[1:10:36] you know we can talk a little bit about that you know as far as as we do

[1:10:48] permitting okay then there's the anticipated permitting now most things

[1:10:51] are not anticipated in segment one because we are working in an area that

[1:10:57] does not have much in the way of environmental or um resource constraints

[1:11:02] as the rest of the corridor did and in many cases we're keeping our footprint

[1:11:06] pretty close to what it is we're just going slightly outside so the um

[1:11:10] permitting is not anticipated to be significant in segment

[1:11:21] one um as we get into segment two as well we're staying in our same footprint

[1:11:26] we're not expecting issues with permitting permitting that should be

[1:11:30] pretty straightforward segment three however

[1:11:34] though when we're talking about a separate shared use path alternative two

[1:11:37] and three end up having some more per permitting

[1:11:41] implications um and there are certainly some things we need to be thinking about

[1:11:46] if we go forward with those again talking with a permanent specialist

[1:11:51] about those there was nothing here that was a big alarm as I said like through

[1:11:55] the Engineering Process given the amount of right of way available chances are

[1:12:00] that permits could be um you know sought and obtained um but again it's just

[1:12:05] something else to be considering as we move forward and if you're increasing in

[1:12:11] perious area wouldn't you be subject to storm water permit yeah Didn't I

[1:12:15] operational not the construction oh was the wrong one oh yes I the wrong one was

[1:12:22] highlighted sorry about that

[1:12:30] yeah okay now we will have some public input as I um outlined Elizabeth is

[1:12:37] online and um Rose is is monitoring that as well if there is input that um folks

[1:12:45] online want to give would' love to hear from you as well but we'd love to hear

[1:12:48] from everyone in the room what what we're thinking about what sounds what

[1:12:52] sounds good what sounds bad what are we reacting to this is where we try to get

[1:12:56] that feedback on Alternatives so that we can understand what direction to head in

[1:13:01] for a preferred alternative to move forward yes so I'm a fairly new um

[1:13:09] resident to Menan I've only been here a few years um and I absolutely love it

[1:13:14] but um where I lived previously I had the joy of sitting on several meetings

[1:13:19] like this my question to start before I go through my is where does Menan see

[1:13:25] ourselves as a town 25 to 30 years from now because in my opinion that should

[1:13:31] be the guide star for does you know a pedestrian space

[1:13:39] along the side of the road Mixon or are we trying to recruit people to come and

[1:13:44] visit the town are we trying to recruit businesses we trying to create a walking

[1:13:49] space and connect the rural area to the more populated Village area so that we

[1:13:56] create more of a destination I don't know if anyone from the town can speak

[1:14:01] to that well I have a reference that you should look at and it's called Men the

[1:14:05] movie if you haven't seen it yet it it is um quite a process I wasn't a part of

[1:14:11] it but it's very impressive um they form subcommittees they really dealt into

[1:14:16] topics just like you're asking about as to where where they saw each other and I

[1:14:20] don't know yeah I'll just briefly discuss the men on the WF project um uh

[1:14:26] we out of that came two priorities that the town set for ourselves and um one

[1:14:33] was boosting outdoor recreation so we are keeping our eyes open on how to

[1:14:38] increase opportunities to boost outdoor recreation in mendum um and we we think

[1:14:43] that some of these Alternatives will help facilitate that and then the second

[1:14:47] one was the um reinvention of Route four um and safety the reinvention and safety

[1:14:56] of Route four I think is the um the terminology and so um those of us that

[1:15:02] have been here a long time have seen the decline of businesses along Route 4 um

[1:15:08] that has impacted the grand list and increased property taxes for residents

[1:15:16] um the Vista View reinvention of that building from a Hospitality business to

[1:15:22] a the Vista Senior Living is is an example of thinking outside the box and

[1:15:28] where is mendan going um we do have a town plan that does get updated and we

[1:15:35] have the zoning that um is slighted to be

[1:15:40] updated um they're going to apply for a municipal planning Grant this year in

[1:15:44] order to update our zoning regulations so um really looking at what's in those

[1:15:49] regulations to broaden the ability for um development or reinvention of Route

[1:15:57] four is what you know those will be looked at as well with the Planning

[1:16:01] Commission so and going back one step further for those who weren't involved

[1:16:06] the town applied for a grant to Vermont Council on Rural Development to decide

[1:16:12] what could we do with our downtown section and we were denied because we

[1:16:18] didn't have a downtown and in everybody's definition of what we were

[1:16:23] we were a highway town we were a pass through town or a missed Town depending

[1:16:28] on who was describing us so the ront counil on Rural Development said you're

[1:16:33] not a town you don't qualify to decide what to do with your town but about six

[1:16:38] months later they came back to us on their initiative and said you know we

[1:16:42] thought that a little bit more there's lots of towns in our state that don't

[1:16:47] have downtowns and we need to help those towns who just are Highway towns F town

[1:16:53] pass through town so they came back to us worked over the course of the year to

[1:16:58] develop The Mending on the move and all those projects came out of it so Co

[1:17:03] whacked us a little bit no doubt about it but um you know those the document

[1:17:08] that thinking has all it's all there this is then we that Vermont Council rur

[1:17:16] development initiative we were going apply for the grant to got these folks

[1:17:19] to come here and look at what we can do at least on the rout for

[1:17:26] while thank you um so phenominal work that's been put in and I hate that I

[1:17:33] missed the first meeting on this um but I was out of the country uh so the a

[1:17:39] couple of questions that I would have would be if we're looking at the first

[1:17:44] section and the third section potentially having a shared use pathway

[1:17:49] even though section two is a little steeper would it not make sense for that

[1:17:53] to be a continuous pathway promoting cycling from town all the way up um you

[1:18:02] know and being able to connect maybe all the way up to the Irish pub and back and

[1:18:06] there is your destination trip I'm going to ride my bike up to the Irish Pub come

[1:18:10] back and get ice cream you know at at mini golf um the the next one would be

[1:18:20] um from an impervious servfaces standpoint could that multi-use trail be

[1:18:27] more of a carriage Trail P gravel type setting and then we're getting away from

[1:18:32] having to deal with the impervious uh surfaces permitting and reducing the

[1:18:36] cost because Paving just needs to be regraded in the

[1:18:39] spring um another mostly from a safety

[1:18:44] standpoint because I really wanted to make sure this got brought up um as

[1:18:49] we're looking at this stretch you know what could be done at the corner of

[1:18:55] Journey's End and four um particularly

[1:19:00] the northwest corner um so if you were coming out of Journey's End Road and

[1:19:08] turning right onto four that corner um the visibility is

[1:19:16] dangerous uh and I know that that road has changed involved over the years

[1:19:20] there are now a lot of young drivers on that road and there are children so

[1:19:24] there will be a continuous flow of young drivers on that road um can we take it

[1:19:30] back to do to look at cutting the trees on that northwest corner and maybe

[1:19:35] shaving down the hillside a little bit especially now that it's mowed on the

[1:19:39] northeast corner um you can see a whole lot better uh and if we had greater

[1:19:44] visibility there then we're reducing the likelihood of accidents um so that's

[1:19:51] that's my safety thing to throw out yeah well and I'm happy to address that your

[1:19:56] comments on a continuous path or whatever that's what this discussion is

[1:20:01] about um you know is that something so so I'll leave that to everyone to

[1:20:05] discuss but safety is outside the safety for drivers is outside of the scope of

[1:20:11] what I'm doing here today however that it also impacts safety but I would

[1:20:16] advise you and your elected officials that there is power in contacting transs

[1:20:23] and requesting them to look at sight lines safety is a big thing the history

[1:20:28] this summer has been really bad here in Menon this is a bad Corridor so I would

[1:20:33] say don't don't think just because that's beyond the scope of what I'm

[1:20:37] doing here that there isn't something else that could be done to evaluate

[1:20:41] sight lines because that is a very specific you know you're not asking them

[1:20:45] to rebuild the whole Road you're asking them to maybe do a little grading trim

[1:20:48] back of vegetation Etc um that is certainly something that should be

[1:20:53] considered given what what has happened this summer with the the number of

[1:20:57] crashes in just the historic crash rate here yes just a couple quick thoughts

[1:21:05] um you're going to do the bike path all along um in the road width changing

[1:21:13] travel L doesn't that have to be done also in conjunction with Killington and

[1:21:19] R to and I guess I'd be afraid coming to

[1:21:23] rton town I don't know what the width is but let's just say it's the 14 ft or 15

[1:21:27] ft and all of a sudden it goes to 11 ft um in the same way on the Kellington and

[1:21:34] um and also on the M you know which is in the you know is now the

[1:21:41] breakdown um seems to me some continuation you know through that

[1:21:47] Corridor um people don't know where the to lines are true it's not that in

[1:21:53] regards to the safety question if we're going to make changes to the road that

[1:21:58] is the time you know there needs to be a turning lanane or I mean and I guess

[1:22:04] none of us know where the traffic would be in and out of the new um Federal

[1:22:08] Building um in Germany's end has been a issue for a while sure without a doubt

[1:22:17] um as far as the question about as you change jurisdictions you are right it

[1:22:21] can be you know it the the cyclist especially if all of a sudden the

[1:22:26] shoulder just becomes a shoulder and they don't have that protection anymore

[1:22:29] that is jarring but as was pointed out hillington is looking at their own trail

[1:22:35] connection study and they're looking at in there and again downtown because

[1:22:39] they're in a similar situation they don't have much of a presence they're

[1:22:43] trying to build that by moving their town office and doing some of the same

[1:22:47] things we're talking about here defining edges a little better access control um

[1:22:51] so there's a number of things killing is thinking about doing and so it is the

[1:22:55] the only way you end up with a sidewalk Network in a city is when someone buils

[1:22:59] that first sidewalk it might go to nowhere but eventually if everybody you

[1:23:02] know builds that sidewalk and I think that's what you know you would be trying

[1:23:06] to do here now the Alternatives I presented was trying to figure out where

[1:23:11] the those key destinations are currently or proposed um and so which is why I

[1:23:17] left that middle segment out but you're right if that is something that is

[1:23:20] really important to the town then then that can be the preferred

[1:23:25] alternative um but I I just looking at it from an analysis point of view um

[1:23:32] think it's more appropriate to think I'm connecting this recreational destination

[1:23:36] to this recreational destination or I'm doing it in the village um but you know

[1:23:42] again this is you know what what your preferences are and it's time to have

[1:23:46] those discussions but I wouldn't be afraid of doing something that slows the

[1:23:51] traffic here especially in your village District because that's what you want to

[1:23:54] do and even along the whole quor the the quor is currently driven at about 60

[1:23:59] miles an hour in the segments and that's not what we want so what what we have

[1:24:04] isn't working and if we want it to change we have to start thinking how we

[1:24:08] can engineer it to change just for a little history I'm

[1:24:13] Ellen prior live on JY and my husband retired state police and he identified

[1:24:19] that coming down down when we have to turn Journey's

[1:24:23] End that could there potentially be better signage because if because trucks

[1:24:29] like sail down you either have to keep going down the mountain or risk your

[1:24:35] life so we went to VR and they took some time and they came back and they told

[1:24:42] him that there wasn't enough statistics my husband was thinking public safety

[1:24:47] prevention and apparently they're wereing enough deaths for them to

[1:24:52] consider just doing a little a bit more signage there you know and it was very

[1:24:59] similar to ' 89 when there was no Rumble strap I couldn't tell you how many times

[1:25:04] I talked with the commissioner of Public Safety about the amount of deaths and it

[1:25:09] wasn't until the family of five got killed that they put Rumble strip in so

[1:25:15] if you think prevention it doesn't seem to be um doesn't seem to be accepted

[1:25:22] because I understand about data and all that kind of stuff but that was um the

[1:25:28] response that he got and he's a guy that gave 28 years of his life to Public

[1:25:33] Safety all in the state he also drove North on 100 to go to Waterberry for the

[1:25:41] State Police he then got Rockingham and drove South and the bikers it's

[1:25:47] unbelievable his suggestion was if the state is going to adjust the high way

[1:25:52] for bikers then there should be a license fee and accountability and

[1:26:00] then it comes to the what is the price and who's going to do the law

[1:26:03] enforcement so I just wanted to input that because it's not a new issue and

[1:26:09] there has been it's been addressed and so I got you know how

[1:26:16] I a nurse working in ICU how many head injuries how how many spinal cord

[1:26:23] injuries do you have to see on a highway in order to I mean what what's the

[1:26:28] number you're looking for for the statistics I'm just curious you know had

[1:26:32] three yeah they're very high summer believeing I understand and it's right

[1:26:36] but you know the warded world kind of thing and and there's so many in factors

[1:26:40] right I mean but I will point out to you um the

[1:26:45] safety um climate at P has changed significantly in recent years they are

[1:26:51] taking be a much more systemic approach because the fatalities that are

[1:26:56] occurring are more on Rural roads they are people leaving the road they um and

[1:27:02] they're aware of this and because those types of crashes tend to be one crash at

[1:27:06] a location the statistics and don't bear it out but what the statistics tell us

[1:27:11] is on certain types of Roads there are more fatalities ER is trying to take a

[1:27:17] more proactive approach and so it might be a better time to ask that question

[1:27:22] and look for for some support information you don't need to

[1:27:27] always this is a new beginning yes is fabulous yes you know but and I do

[1:27:31] compliment um I'm sure that someone in our town contact City and as you go out

[1:27:37] the Dr on a road all of that Landscaping has been totally cleared and that is

[1:27:44] like a blessing right and it's was such a practical thing I mean my initially we

[1:27:49] had our our road people and not our road people our residents on a road we took

[1:27:55] out our our instruments and went down there to try to cut it lower but then

[1:28:00] there was one area that was a landowner right by the house there um to the left

[1:28:05] and that was a different property line so you know but however I compliment the

[1:28:11] work that has been done and I appreciate the work that's in the

[1:28:16] future for sure those of all of us who live in men didn't have can count

[1:28:21] numerous near misses yeah but that's not quite the statistic yet but how many

[1:28:26] times pulling good point it's probably good

[1:28:30] time to revisit it especially after this summer we were talking about I mean I

[1:28:35] like some of your suggestions I think they're great but low in speed Li would

[1:28:40] take people go slower I mean it's pretty basic the statistics actually don't show

[1:28:45] that though people drive how they feel comfortable driving I understand but

[1:28:49] when you're in the 45 mph Zone you're doing 50 when you're in that 50 mph Zone

[1:28:53] you're doing 60 that's the I mean I'm outs stop my store all day I see how

[1:28:57] many people flying by day definitely I mean I two people Buy FR of the store

[1:29:01] this year um it's a dangerous road I if you think

[1:29:06] of putting bike pads and people on the side and then you're going to tighten

[1:29:09] the lane one little mistake you're killing people on that road at that

[1:29:13] speed right but the idea is to engineer it so that the driver drives it

[1:29:18] differently where we want to engineer the solution to get the speeds go down

[1:29:22] even at 50 mes an hour if you're going to have bikers and hikers walking by

[1:29:26] it's dangerous that's dangerous even at 50 yeah but they didn't see if you're

[1:29:31] talking about the shoulder alternative I mean the fact of the matter is there is

[1:29:34] some carless population there are some people who are waiting for that bus or

[1:29:38] who are out there biking currently the um Killington pipo place because they

[1:29:42] have you know some of the um sh people in there that's a big bus stop over

[1:29:46] there too but um I just want everyone to know in town There's squatters going

[1:29:51] around so be careful if you have a vacated building put up a

[1:29:54] no tresp passing sign on it so the cops could do St about it the ti roll was

[1:29:58] loaded with they were renting it out we got rid of them for now but I think

[1:30:02] they're in back building though just give you the heads up I noticed them

[1:30:06] because they were on the bus stop

[1:30:10] imag can I ask the question is U so is lowering the speed limit off the table

[1:30:15] or yeah lowering the speed limit is is not typically done because all you do by

[1:30:22] lowering the speed limit is you know provide law enforcement with a way to

[1:30:25] write more tickets it very rarely actually low the travel speed on

[1:30:31] roadway so and that's been proven in mendan so we um we have been dedicated

[1:30:37] for the last 20 years of trying to slow um traffic down on Route 4 by

[1:30:43] policing it and it hasn't worked at we all know it has it works I understand

[1:30:47] that um and so visually we have to get inside the brains of the drivers and see

[1:30:53] what it's like how to calm how to calm the traffic so that it doesn't feel like

[1:30:58] they're driving a freeway we all drive on that road when you're in that 45 M

[1:31:02] hour Zone you're not doing 60 miles hour right but even if it's wide or skinny

[1:31:09] whatever because you're so afraid of the ticket if you go to the 50 mile Zone you

[1:31:14] think nothing doing 60 65 M hour aring with you the reason in the 45 M hour

[1:31:20] Zone you drop lower is the houses are closer to the road there's mailboxes

[1:31:25] right there the lanes are narrower business is a 40 coming up the

[1:31:30] hill then you're at 50 again I know but I'm saying it it really is you know the

[1:31:37] character in The Village district is different and that is why you're driving

[1:31:41] it differently you you are going 60 miles an hour through hillington that's

[1:31:46] actually what the data shows and it is because it is you're not not at the

[1:31:50] bottom when you come down the 40 m but when you go through Bridgewater you

[1:31:55] get to Bridgewater and the houses start to get closer to the road and no you

[1:32:00] don't want to go 25 through there but you do not want to go 60 through there

[1:32:04] you you well usually there's a cop right I mean the sign that you put up

[1:32:11] was great but um it should have been written a little differently saying you

[1:32:14] know radar strictly enforced on this Ro slow down it's pretty much basic thing

[1:32:18] they had some weird sayings on it that you didn't understand what the hell

[1:32:21] saying and that's speed trans yeah Alternatives because we do tonight

[1:32:28] want to out of this with the direction for

[1:32:30] Alternatives changing the speed limit is beyond this the control here um what we

[1:32:36] can do though is potentially set you up with prer alternative that is buildable

[1:32:41] and could make some change so if you were to create a

[1:32:46] situation where the atmosphere or however you want to call conditions

[1:32:49] suggest you go slower um would the speed limit ever get lower

[1:32:55] in that case yes okay so they they speed they set the speed limit based on the

[1:33:01] 85th percentile speed it's the speed limit is set by how drivers feel like

[1:33:08] they should travel or by density so in some communities where it's very very

[1:33:13] dense the speed limit changes or if you're in the school zone there's

[1:33:17] certain locations where even if you feel like you could drive faster they say no

[1:33:21] should drive slower but if the road is designed to accommodate a fast speed

[1:33:26] that is how the speed limit is set is by how you're driving

[1:33:30] it I have two two things uh one is uh uh live on Woodard Road which is directly

[1:33:37] opposite the entrance to the new forestry headquarters which is

[1:33:42] beautiful but it's directly across and coming upill there are two lanes going

[1:33:46] downhill there's only one um those of us who live there and experience

[1:33:52] turning onto Route four in various conditions are very concerned that

[1:33:58] there's going to be a problem once that once both things are open if you're

[1:34:02] coming downhill and you want to turn right that would be one thing if you're

[1:34:05] coming downhill you want to turn left onto wooded Road and you have a whole

[1:34:09] bunch of skiers behind you and there's no uh way to tell people that this is

[1:34:15] now a a major essentially an intersection at the very least there

[1:34:19] should be signage at the very least there should be I don't know flashing

[1:34:22] yellow light but I really would recommend that you that in terms of

[1:34:26] intersections you look very carefully at that because so far all we've had our

[1:34:30] construction trucks moving in there while they're building it but and I

[1:34:33] don't know how much traffic and uh there will be once it's open but it's it's a

[1:34:39] potential dangerous place so you might have kids over there that is a safety

[1:34:45] concern um as as far as an intersection and could be a part of our s to be trans

[1:34:51] when you're looking looking at safety looking at signing in advance for that

[1:34:55] but again not not anything that I can do with the scope of this study um I'd be

[1:35:01] happy to run through the Alternatives again to remind folks of what it is

[1:35:05] we're really talking about tonight and what is within the control of the study

[1:35:08] sure go ahead um I'm hearing a lot of the same concerns and to bring it back

[1:35:15] to what you're talking about my suggestion would be alternative three

[1:35:21] through through the entire stretch because we are narrowing the

[1:35:25] lanes we are slowing vehicles and we're providing a space for pedestrians that

[1:35:31] has a buffer cell that addresses the concerns of if we only lower the speed

[1:35:36] so much by this constrained environment do we really want pedestrians that close

[1:35:40] to Vehicles so if you're looking for opinions on what to do there's been

[1:35:46] several comments online too about having a path separated from Road as the prefer

[1:35:50] alternative okay great anybody else again I'm happy to

[1:35:54] run through the Alternatives if you want to see an image of them again um I don't

[1:35:59] think I've heard from folks on the side I was gonna say this is also an

[1:36:04] opportunity for men to make more menend more desirable in the different ways

[1:36:09] that we would like to make it more desirable in the can't I me everyone but

[1:36:13] there's you know I think for many of us we kind of love the fact that we're pass

[1:36:17] through town like there's not too much going on but at the same time it would

[1:36:22] be nice if there's a little bit like gentler Lifestyle on Route four and it

[1:36:28] wasn't so hyper and and and everything and then also that could in my mind

[1:36:34] produce an environment where people do want to come in either ourselves or

[1:36:38] other people want to come in and um we have the properties that aren't being

[1:36:44] utilized and create more businesses and make men a bit more of um destination

[1:36:50] than it has been then so that the more we do to beautify

[1:36:55] and slow down and give access to as many make it as inclusive as possible then we

[1:37:01] could have more desirability for things to

[1:37:10] happen was up sure um I I'm my name is cat I'm coming from py I'm mostly here

[1:37:17] to listen but also a bike mechanic and so tons of folks in my community are

[1:37:23] going up and down that road all the time um I am curious just from research

[1:37:29] perspective why ballards or any type of barriers the height of a car um haven't

[1:37:38] been proposed as an in between as as a a solution that is cheaper than um than

[1:37:46] alternative three but um perhaps more like visually safe than alternative

[1:37:55] one and also gives drivers a little bit more

[1:38:00] fear of damage to their vehicles yeah typically um that is a

[1:38:07] feature that is used in a more urban setting where speeds are lower sure um

[1:38:12] at a location like this um it it isn't that typical and part of the issue is

[1:38:17] the maintenance of that because they do even inter up in setting they get struck

[1:38:22] and need to be replaced and they create a a challenge for Paving and how they

[1:38:27] are attached to the pavement in some cases reduces the life cycle of the

[1:38:33] pavement so there is definitely a few things that make it a less desirable

[1:38:37] alternative here you would it would help to Define that kind of idea to make the

[1:38:43] car feel a little more constrained and that visual um line between the car and

[1:38:50] the the cyclist um but it isn't something that is typically used in a

[1:38:54] setting ties plowing would also be oh

[1:38:59] plowing the winter anyone hav't heard oh I wanted

[1:39:06] just address the the uh not any particular segment but the just that the

[1:39:13] road have continuity as it goes through mending so that the surface is going to

[1:39:20] be clean and smooth the cyclist because there are

[1:39:26] any cyclist who is interested in going all the way to killing to Killington uh

[1:39:33] is going to be looking for a clean smooth surface uh not any segments with

[1:39:39] with gravel because it's just going to slow that person down and take energy

[1:39:44] and and um and also people who commute to any place work along that uh in in

[1:39:53] mending or along the road are going I'm not interested in you know um doing it

[1:40:00] for fun of it uh they have to do it and they're looking for the same safety

[1:40:04] features as well as the same um ease of pedaling and the safety of

[1:40:14] pedal and on just oh one more thing and the there would be the recreational

[1:40:20] cycle who um may be thinking about well I want

[1:40:25] to ride up to wheelerville ride up the wheel of a road

[1:40:30] and do some gravel and that's a very attractive rout but the safety factor is

[1:40:37] a critical Factor keeping almost every cyclist that I know

[1:40:43] from doing it right now so in improving mening in in route four um the more

[1:40:51] that is done the more attractive that you know riding on L is

[1:40:56] going to become as an objective to get into other places and

[1:41:01] bend so it does sound like I'm hearing some support for a shared use path

[1:41:07] alternative um do we have a feeling for whether it it on the North side or on

[1:41:13] the South Side makes the most sense I would say there's some arguments for

[1:41:18] either um on the north side is where the forest headquarters is um on the South

[1:41:27] Side um is willville road as you just pointed out I mean there are certainly

[1:41:31] some destinations on either um does one stand out to this group is I think you

[1:41:37] have less buildings on your North Side than you do on the South Side I

[1:41:44] believe I'm not sure if I've counted the buildings but I think as far as

[1:41:48] resources are concerned I think the north side was a little bit better a

[1:41:54] little fewer fewer Crossings but um but you know does that help you get to

[1:42:00] destinations um and one of the things that we didn't get into is is the

[1:42:04] challenge that we have with Crossings in that high-speed environment um VR will

[1:42:11] not put in a crosswalk on a 50 m per hour road because what they don't want

[1:42:15] to do is encourage you to feel safe Crossing W you know crossing a crosswalk

[1:42:23] you feel like someone thinks it's okay for you to do so whereas their policy is

[1:42:28] you're if you're making that choice they want you to know you're making that

[1:42:30] choice they're not encouraging you to cross at any particular location is

[1:42:35] there a certain speed that they call Smoke safety or is it

[1:42:41] 45 it's the maximum speed is 40 miles per hour but even then it has to be on

[1:42:46] like a non us Road as well Road yeah so so one of the things that we could talk

[1:42:54] about and this is really just you know at strategic locations is there are um

[1:43:00] great separated Crossings for the Long Trail and the appalation trail at other

[1:43:04] locations and um that is something that could be considered whether it is by

[1:43:11] doing it in effect think of it like through a culvert underneath the road or

[1:43:15] whether it is by doing it via a bridge over the road now there is a significant

[1:43:19] cost associated with that um and I don't know you know if something like that

[1:43:25] makes sense but I just you know wanted to touch on the crossing because we

[1:43:30] would likely be looking at a shared use path situation either on the North side

[1:43:33] or the South side and you would still have some destinations and people on

[1:43:37] both sides that want have a question online Mary had her hand

[1:43:45] raised Mary do you have a question hi um so I live in Rutland town

[1:43:53] and Northwood Park is very OHS the mute symbolism up can you hear

[1:44:01] me uh uh do you w to ask Elizabeth if she

[1:44:07] can hear her can anyone hear me Elizabeth can you

[1:44:11] hear Mary yes I can hear

[1:44:18] her so that's be our end okay so could you translate for me

[1:44:25] um in the meantime while we try to figure out what the sound issue is maybe

[1:44:29] Elizabeth can attempt to answer your question Mary but if not I can try to

[1:44:32] get back to you after the meeting oh I was just gonna say um Northwood Park is

[1:44:37] on the North side so a reason there's biking hiking

[1:44:43] pool the and turn on one of our speakers on our laptops that are

[1:44:48] connected that way we don't get feedback

[1:44:56] in the room yep they won't

[1:45:06] here try again Mary oh can you hear me now yes oh okay

[1:45:13] great sorry um so I was just saying that Northwood Park is very close to the

[1:45:18] menden border and there's um hiking and uh mountain bike trails

[1:45:24] and the pool and sports and um so the north side of the road would be closer

[1:45:30] to that too that's all I was trying to share

[1:45:34] thank you great thank you thank

[1:45:40] you the way it needs to be can you okay perfect go ahead so does anybody know

[1:45:45] where the Valmont Trail is going to come through is it coming through men because

[1:45:50] be another I mean that's going be probably hugely

[1:45:55] popular proposed Trail is GNA have a connection to the forest service

[1:45:59] building be on the North side there and then also go near the Northwood Park

[1:46:03] it's going to connect to um Park Lane and post are that could a lot of tra

[1:46:13] tremendous right now there's very little p death SC in replac traffic after dark

[1:46:18] I'm guessing it multi Ed path shared Ed Pathways go in that that usage goes up

[1:46:24] because people feel comfortable again are we're a shared Ed pathway across

[1:46:29] existing intersections is our lighting currently sufficient if there is

[1:46:33] increased use after dark winter whatever

[1:46:41] Allway anticipating some well depending on where we are so

[1:46:47] if we're in the village District your locations tend to have lighting there

[1:46:51] would be a further evaluation if that lighting need to be supplemented or

[1:46:54] modified to make sure that it captured where the sh New Path was crossing um

[1:47:00] but there aren't that many Road you know public roads that it that it's Crossing

[1:47:06] so I don't think that that would be a detriment putting in that share use path

[1:47:10] in a more rural environment um you know I there would likely not be lighting out

[1:47:17] on the shared use path unless it did come in by an intersection and if you're

[1:47:21] going to have it at a point where there is more vehicular conflict then then yes

[1:47:27] possibly but that would certainly be evaluated during

[1:47:32] design there was also a question online about um if there's a certain incline

[1:47:38] that could deter use of a multi-use path like is it actually a real world um

[1:47:43] scenario that a path would be usable on the root for corridor

[1:47:48] which I I would say for me personally most

[1:47:53] definit but I see people cycling up to the you know up to the The Hub like all

[1:48:01] the time it is amazing to me so although yes most of us may say there would be no

[1:48:07] way I would do that middle segment on my bike there are certainly plenty of

[1:48:11] people and those are those Recreation enthusiasts that that I think men is

[1:48:15] trying to attract um so might get less use than some the other segment

[1:48:21] certainly um but there will be some for sure I would also say that

[1:48:27] to a lot of people riding up there one electric bikes keep going to kill

[1:48:31] anything from Roll stuff like that I not t but there the other one stop the store

[1:48:37] they need water yeah and the concept if build it they

[1:48:43] will come so so I guess why don't I ask this this group up a couple of key

[1:48:48] things it sounds like I'm hearing a coalescing along providing a shared use

[1:48:53] path really throughout vending from from end to end is there anyone who does not

[1:48:57] think that's an appropriate um approach or the alternative is that

[1:49:02] the most expensive one or was that

[1:49:07] the i i my personal opinion is to implement it easily in see how it's

[1:49:12] working instead of dumping a ton of money and it doesn't work at all that's

[1:49:16] my opinion well one of the things we could talk about is sp if you could like

[1:49:19] use part of that money started phase one phase two works out you know spread it

[1:49:24] out so there could be a phased approach where you look at in the village where

[1:49:29] it's probably most appropriate where you're going to get more pedestrians and

[1:49:32] more cyclists um and in connection with that talk about the restriping and so

[1:49:38] maybe the phase one grant that you pursue includes those two pieces and

[1:49:43] then so at least the striping has happened to provide some protection and

[1:49:48] a sh's path of a limited segment is is implemented um because of course you

[1:49:53] know there are the funding there are limits to funding and so maybe then you

[1:49:57] have in future phases then to continue to to move the um the shared use path

[1:50:03] which I would suggest if you were doing a three-phase project you really think

[1:50:06] about them phase two being that other P end where we think we would get more

[1:50:11] usage because you do have to be competitive in your application as well

[1:50:15] you have to be able to to show why you think that people are going to use this

[1:50:18] investment if you're going for the big money I don't know if you can go for the

[1:50:22] tip Pro the tip is what killington's doing they're eating up a lot of the

[1:50:26] money they're not we're not paying the money you know what I'm saying I mean

[1:50:29] there's money the issue is you have to entice

[1:50:33] the businesses and because unfortunately on that for corridor in recent years

[1:50:38] it's you know the restaurants have gone out the hotels have gone out there PR

[1:50:42] Bas 45 M hour z in business the 50

[1:50:47] m basic you're not you're not wrong but it is tough to generate money with the

[1:50:53] Tiff District if you don't have the business coming in that's Pro make sense

[1:51:00] is pay so that's the other part of this

[1:51:04] that I just want everybody to be aware of that you're you're looking at a very

[1:51:08] large project on and mendan has a very small budget so um annual budget so we

[1:51:15] spend a little over a million dollars to run the entire town for a year annual

[1:51:21] operation and right now we don't plow any sidewalks so we don't have equipment

[1:51:28] to plow sidewalks um or a shared youth path so that is all continued

[1:51:33] maintenance is also a piece of this as we go forward because there's only 1100

[1:51:40] property or 1100 people in Menan and 850 Parcels paying those taxes so we have a

[1:51:48] middle of the road suggestion here which is Lane striping which is a lower cost

[1:51:54] and that way VR continues to plow the whole Road um the straping is a cost and

[1:52:00] that's a a that's going to be an annual cost by annual cost that you have to

[1:52:06] restrike um but the maintenance is greatly reduced from that' be big

[1:52:13] maintenance if you ran you know share Trail all the way from you know there to

[1:52:16] Killington you told us you know that's s doing sidewalk and Killington with the

[1:52:21] little thing well what we've typically seen is

[1:52:25] with a shared juice path as you do it with full ploud I mean you don't use

[1:52:29] just a sidewalk so if you were to go with a full shared use path you would do

[1:52:32] it you know with a full plow driving down

[1:52:36] to J I mean this is V transis road so do they uh take responsibility for any of

[1:52:44] the costs associated with restriping or is that so there's a couple ways that

[1:52:50] can move forward one is to include that in a Grant application but another is to

[1:52:56] talk to VR about when next they're doing full striping and whether there is the

[1:53:01] ability to modify it and um come up with what that plan should look like for for

[1:53:06] how that should be striped and if they're amenable to that and the best

[1:53:09] time to do that is really when they're going to put another course pavement

[1:53:12] down and I don't know when that is and we can certainly look into that when

[1:53:16] that targeted to be done um for every 10 years and I feel like it's been roughly

[1:53:23] that time since the last there so there going be an opportunity soon to to

[1:53:28] incorporate that and then you could think about whether there's other things

[1:53:32] such as you know the crosswalks or a sh's path or something else to pursue

[1:53:36] through grant funding for a longer term solution what's your approval process

[1:53:41] like if we wanted to go forward with like the alternative

[1:53:46] one is there are there studies that you have to provide to be trans

[1:53:50] yeah so what ends up coming out of this is so we've already done kind of an

[1:53:53] existing conditions assessment and um you know we're following the steps

[1:53:57] associated with the granch um process and from this meeting if we come up with

[1:54:03] what the planned approach is and it could be a shortterm approach with

[1:54:08] followed by a longer term approach um ultimately then we provide this to be

[1:54:12] trans so we met with them because it is their Road and got some input as to what

[1:54:15] alternatives we should or shouldn't talk about and I say that kind Loosely

[1:54:20] because there was nothing that they said don't talk about but they did say things

[1:54:24] like me trying to get rid of the climbing Lane they said that's a real

[1:54:27] long like be honest with them that's a really longer term solution that's not

[1:54:32] it's not at the table but that's not something that we're going to want to

[1:54:35] move forward with the short term so they were up front with us they knew what we

[1:54:39] would be presenting today um and basically you know what happens next is

[1:54:47] yeah if it's striping recommendation it could become part of their work plan and

[1:54:51] or if there's something else whether it's striping or whether it's you know

[1:54:54] putting in a sidewalk or shareed use path the grant program and

[1:54:57] transportation Alternatives Grant or the bike pad Grant or the way to help

[1:55:01] those so if the town collaborates with say you know you're going down for take

[1:55:07] par you're going over North you have this B Trail that's going to be um uh

[1:55:13] it's it's a reality and so then you go down or you take a less online Road

[1:55:20] they've just researched it all there's there are several several walkers on

[1:55:25] that road and also they're in bikers and they come up from Kellington Avenue over

[1:55:31] that way and you know as you know highways uh it's

[1:55:37] enticing to go faster right so it those folks are in Jeopardy so and that's

[1:55:41] where on toown so you're looking you have great money and you are showing on

[1:55:48] your whatever phase you want how you want to do that that you're

[1:55:52] collaborating with um the Park Service which is which is National and they have

[1:55:58] more finances than we do and and you're also working you're in mendin and

[1:56:03] showing the collaboration to get over there using existing

[1:56:08] resources you know I I concur 150% on the village

[1:56:14] aspect and how how that goes because it's very imperative for our town for

[1:56:20] that um so does that give you any leverage in regards to collaboration

[1:56:26] versus just doing what you giv you a much more palatable Grant application

[1:56:32] because that the bip grants are competitive and so to be able to say

[1:56:36] you're working with surrounding communities to create entire network and

[1:56:40] or that you know the forest service is putting this in we know these are new

[1:56:44] connections that can be made to different Trails um that makes your

[1:56:48] Grant application it isn't just a standalone facility in the middle of

[1:56:52] nowhere it's part of a network go more Global yes definitely that that makes it

[1:56:58] more I'm kind of new to this uh table but I was just wondering has has a

[1:57:04] rotland town have we had meetings that um you know you're doing this and we're

[1:57:10] looking to do this how can we improve the you know coming down forward taking

[1:57:15] the left you know and I understand they're doing it at the Post Road course

[1:57:19] there school section over there and theyve done a really nice job you know

[1:57:23] with that my son used to like he an interpretation he go out of J one day

[1:57:30] momy says mom can't I just like go to north of pool today I said really you

[1:57:35] think you're GNA like drive your bike down the

[1:57:38] FL so okay I said well why don't you let's try it so we had our supper

[1:57:44] daylight so traffic I'm like following down there and I'm thinking I'm not

[1:57:50] ready for this I don't think this is going to work but it they have enticing

[1:57:54] you know um the kids have a really good time it's a lot of fun kids are doing

[1:57:59] Mountain Bing which is excellent Wellness you know but I just wondered

[1:58:04] how can we um collaborate and you know be able

[1:58:09] to kind of make it like I mean you've got the government you got the state you

[1:58:14] got rot in City over here you got rot in town you know it seems like we should be

[1:58:19] able to do that and enrich all the communities the other thing in regard

[1:58:23] signage a lot of

[1:58:34] towns veterans and having you know having that signage that kind of

[1:58:40] Embraces the veterans who um I respect highly um to have that in

[1:58:48] my town um which is not in the state but I noticed when I go with seven you know

[1:58:54] they have you know who serves where Co is yeah and any of those any either

[1:59:01] monumentation or as I said banners or other things really helps with the plac

[1:59:05] making so I mean that is definitely something to embrace to help you feel

[1:59:10] like you're arriving in a place the is from you know doing that again not not a

[1:59:18] part of this so right now but why don't we just take a step back because you

[1:59:23] know I I know folks are are going to want to go home at some point why don't

[1:59:27] we just talk a little bit I heard a lot of interest in the Shar pad you brought

[1:59:33] a great point up though that menen will need to maintain that shared use path um

[1:59:39] and that is something that we need that honestly if you apply for that Grant you

[1:59:44] you have to commit that you're going to maintain that share juuse path um is

[1:59:48] there a short-term solution that folks what you know what is the appetite is it

[1:59:57] um all in we we want the shy path the entire way is there a in the shorter

[2:00:04] time thinking about segments with just the the striping is there um and we do

[2:00:12] really need to find out like as towns people that would mean if there is a

[2:00:16] change to the budget at town meeting day all of you who are interested in the

[2:00:21] shareed use P need to get out there and make sure that the town's people are

[2:00:25] going to vote in support of maintaining that sh and you know grants come with

[2:00:30] matching funds so we would have to have matching funds in order to construct

[2:00:36] this that is true it seems like that's the only

[2:00:40] alternative that leverages the other other communities assets and resources

[2:00:45] right otherwise we could accomplish traic down

[2:00:50] nice right but is there reason to stop and right now but I think you have the B

[2:00:57] which is definitely going to create a lot of traffic right if you if you can

[2:01:01] connect that because I mean I don't really know

[2:01:05] how many people got to walk up for hillington I have two people come the

[2:01:11] store year maybe yeah you know what I'm saying but it's

[2:01:16] not a large amount because that's air roide

[2:01:19] up that I mean usually it's schools and they're just torturing the kids well

[2:01:23] it's a high level enus this very little road riding for

[2:01:28] month about and then of course the eik will change terms of

[2:01:32] community but so my point would be like if you get to to the new farest uh us

[2:01:38] farest service right where the Belmont Trail will will be right connect that

[2:01:43] the people that will use Almont and then connect that to the resources in R right

[2:01:49] right and then connect that to men at least right

[2:01:52] so uh cuz I mean I think you need to leverage everybody else's resources

[2:01:57] because I don't see a lot of resources in menend in to drive people I mean you

[2:02:01] have like trigger spice which is cool right people would like that and you

[2:02:04] have the Min golf right ice but um my suggest would be at least to get

[2:02:11] that multi-use pass up to the for Center or service center start from the and go

[2:02:17] up to the right because then you can engage well first of you'll get people

[2:02:21] to come from the for service that use mul to come down from men right and then

[2:02:26] they go over to R for those resources right um I'm sorry stuff on Park the

[2:02:31] swimming pool and stuff like thats and going to go that way you said

[2:02:36] yeah yeah so I think that then you could capture some of that distance right that

[2:02:40] audience anyway and then because I think pass there multiuse pass

[2:02:47] PA not get resear what kind of Ro like you said

[2:02:53] you were deal with killing coming the other way you know what I mean you have

[2:02:56] to get connect you know yeah that sidewalk to Nowhere you know it's just

[2:03:01] in the middle but I think I think if they're Killington they're

[2:03:06] they're might be into it to the people who would be who might be

[2:03:12] visiting B would probably do so on FMA Trail because otherwise they would be

[2:03:16] doing it right now on new porn they're not

[2:03:19] so so I think develon is attraction is a is a resource rather try to leverage and

[2:03:26] uh I think it's you know in terms of the cost so you're not going all the way up

[2:03:29] you go to there the part service right and then um and that's up marketable as

[2:03:35] well connect you can Market that so you connect men to the trail to the m of

[2:03:42] course we and then you know the the r can you

[2:03:48] know Hill Park and those other resources as well so that my my suggestion would

[2:03:53] be that that would be a good thing to do to get that multi-use trail at least up

[2:03:58] to the part service um because then it becomes sort of a marketable asset as

[2:04:03] well hey this is what you do is who we are is where we are we're local we're

[2:04:07] close right you're going to ride building thing come on down we have

[2:04:10] rooms meals you know so my suggestion yeah I have a quick question for the

[2:04:16] town the setbacks over there are 100 fet corre

[2:04:21] correct is there any I mean you guys are trying to tighten up the road and bring

[2:04:25] the house to closure you can't do it but is there any chance that the town might

[2:04:29] up some regulations on that in future building so that would be in the zoning

[2:04:34] re so as the Planning Commission applies for a municipal planning Grant this year

[2:04:39] they'll start working on the zoning regulation rewrite for going into

[2:04:45] 2024 and those are the different ideas that you want to present to the Planning

[2:04:50] Commission to possibly reduce that setback oretty extreme setb really you

[2:04:57] look at it I mean 100 feet yeah you know yeah so the

[2:05:03] intention between you know the intention there was to have green space between

[2:05:07] the buildings and to keep that rural aspect but what hasn't happened is they

[2:05:14] built out route four so wide that now it's just a if you want business to come

[2:05:19] in and I'm going to H on it again Lower speed limits they come in on but you'd

[2:05:24] rather be closer to the road because if you build a building there you're 100

[2:05:28] feet you got to build a building 100 feet back have a tiny sign and the

[2:05:32] parking lot pretty much has got to be in the back of your store which is very

[2:05:35] rough for a business to open up I mean by changing that might make your car a

[2:05:39] little better I don't know just a suggestion

[2:05:43] W was there reaction to the proposal of a shared Ed path from w Town Line to the

[2:05:49] forest service is that um appealing do we think

[2:05:55] that's more practical than the entire Lane do we think we lose something by

[2:05:59] dropping the East end or do we think that that sounds appropriate I think

[2:06:03] you'd lose something but you're going to sounds like you're going to gain more

[2:06:06] because like the people have been saying there's more cyclists they will be

[2:06:11] interested in that you can connect in the future too

[2:06:17] yeah yeah otherwise who you're who are you trying to

[2:06:21] attract practical side of do it worth it yeah yeah and and they come where they

[2:06:28] where they G

[2:06:33] they striping and maybe something in the village to start and then that next

[2:06:38] segment of the path be like a phase two feel like it's a lot well maybe you can

[2:06:43] make a combo too you're doing the pass that way and then you have the striping

[2:06:47] going up the rest of the way you know there's different theories can go with

[2:06:50] this so what do you do to narrow the road where you don't have the the path

[2:06:55] anymore make it less well I me as I showed in striping

[2:07:00] that that for alternative one in each configuration and you know you can see

[2:07:05] it on your screen now um is using that same 20 fet in a different way to make

[2:07:11] the driver feel like they're more

[2:07:17] constraint I have a question Clarity question how La a process are we talking

[2:07:24] about that may be a hard thing to answer and it depends it depends how successful

[2:07:28] you are in your Grant applications um because I did a scoping study in um

[2:07:34] theas swon a few years ago and let me think it's now three years ago now we

[2:07:41] are designing the first phase of their improvements so they were successful in

[2:07:45] obtaining you know in the first round with their grant program after because

[2:07:49] of course this still has to continue through the process um when once we come

[2:07:52] up with a bird alternative and create a draft scoping study po to V and VR is

[2:07:58] review of all of their departments and that's where they say oh my gosh that's

[2:08:02] going to be incredibly difficult because of that one like how are you going to

[2:08:05] address that and can you comment on this or your estimate is too high because of

[2:08:09] that and they they comment on all the different aspects of the study and then

[2:08:13] ultimately it also needs to be endorsed by the select board um with the full

[2:08:18] understanding what that means those implications about maintenance Etc um

[2:08:22] after which point then you have this and then you look for those grant

[2:08:25] opportunities that come up from be now there is currently right now the TR

[2:08:29] Alternatives Grant is out there right now so we don't have the study but maybe

[2:08:34] next year at this time you'll be in a position you could apply for that grant

[2:08:37] for example um but you may not be successful in that first grant R so um

[2:08:43] give a sense of what the cap on that Transportation Alternatives Grant is in

[2:08:48] terms of um I am less familiar with the amounts and the transportation

[2:08:53] Alternatives Grant the bike P Frant I have seen that for projects anywhere

[2:08:59] from very very small to um I think 1.5 million for shareed use path or you know

[2:09:06] something along that line and those are just some of the ones

[2:09:11] I'm aware of it's not I don't know the whole list of all those supports I just

[2:09:15] wanted folks to get a sense of you know is there any liability towards the town

[2:09:20] when you're building all this stuff and these people going and driving around

[2:09:24] does the town have a liability towards that someone get skill or Hur on that

[2:09:27] situation that is a great question that I don't know that I can answer fully it

[2:09:32] is still within VR right of way they are still the owner but the town is

[2:09:37] maintaining it so I think if there is an argument about how it's maintained that

[2:09:43] to the risk then perhaps I don't

[2:09:49] either but it doesn't fall under that personal

[2:09:52] liability

[2:09:57] law yeah I'm sorry Thinking Out Loud

[2:10:06] ask so are we looking

[2:10:11] for res I mean resol I mean I'm Hing to come from this

[2:10:16] with some direction as to I'm going to go back and draw up and look at imp pass

[2:10:20] up um and so I've definitely heard support for a path on the north side of

[2:10:26] the street um a phased approach that involves you know striping to try to um

[2:10:32] get us some of this um it sounds like the the the sh's path on the North side

[2:10:37] would extend probably from the Town Line to um the forest Service headquarters

[2:10:43] ultimately it might need to be phased because again that is a big chunk of

[2:10:47] distance um let me ask you about in in the

[2:10:53] village for example in the village District um do we have an interest in

[2:10:57] some of those crosswalks were the crosswalks I didn't identify are there

[2:11:01] destinations that we want to think about Crossing pedestrians in the village you

[2:11:06] have to go down to 40 miles an hour though um well I design it to be driven

[2:11:11] at 40 miles an hour we could get there to get no I'm just you know saying

[2:11:16] figure that y so is that where we want to lens do we want crosswalks I showed

[2:11:21] them between sugar and spice and the mini bul and I showed another one down

[2:11:27] between the Orchard and alen

[2:11:31] pools it's dangerous though because get snow you get people going across that

[2:11:36] road icy or something like people trying to stop you know they think you're going

[2:11:39] to stop and you don't it's it's something you really to think about I'm

[2:11:43] not against I think they're great but you know it's something to think about

[2:11:47] you know people doing it no we'll evaluate that in consider with the

[2:11:53] guidance you know because it isn't below 40 miles an hour currently is that a

[2:11:58] part of the first phase I mean maybe we identify as that as the second phase

[2:12:03] that happen if if we were to choose um the

[2:12:09] striping hoping that the um speed would come down for the drivers just

[2:12:15] visually I mean that by The Orchard that's that's a little

[2:12:21] Rat Race sometimes

[2:12:24] um would that come after that would there be some sort of

[2:12:28] study well with a multiphase I we could identify that that's something like

[2:12:33] evaluation of speed and crosswalk locations as part of phase two

[2:12:38] yeah I'm definitely a fan of starting small cost effective seeing how see

[2:12:46] effects and see what it does if it's going to be part of the project starting

[2:12:50] off it's striping part of the project that you're going to go the two-way

[2:12:53] start with the striping see where it goes and if it's start to be effective

[2:12:56] and working then make you know you can go from there and I love the banner idea

[2:13:02] it's cozy

[2:13:05] um yeah let's to that so as we showed was just you the the down sign and just

[2:13:14] put it on Banner um and obviously it's not scale it's very here but um yeah and

[2:13:20] that the kind of treatment of thek slow people down and then we just grabbed a

[2:13:27] few other examples um that we were aware

[2:13:31] of I feel like the banner is probably the easiest and least expensive

[2:13:38] alternative um because you do it behind the guard rail but it visually it is

[2:13:42] still that vertical element um it does not have the impact of say a um sign

[2:13:48] like Jericho mon sign and again given that area we know it is probably

[2:13:55] difficult to plant and get Tre to thrive given there so as a result I think you

[2:14:04] know steering fors theer and that sort of thing but we could think about

[2:14:07] Advanced signage um think about um you know lighting periodic lighting as as

[2:14:14] you are approaching into town and with the Lan striving to really reinforce the

[2:14:19] drivers that you're entering I would think in terms of the crosswalks I can

[2:14:23] see the need for between sugar and spice and the minol because that's two

[2:14:28] attractions the I'm not sure how many people from Allen pools need to walk

[2:14:33] over to the many orang plus there's A's a very sharp Hill at that point

[2:14:41] it's yeah I guess I guess the question becomes if you are someone who is from

[2:14:45] town and you live somewhere near there I mean do you just come for a walk here

[2:14:49] and is there a place for you to cross if you need to cross so if you are coming

[2:14:54] from the other end of men and you want to go to the coffee shop so you're on

[2:14:58] the shareed 's path and you need to you cross to get

[2:15:02] home so we can't NE like if you come off the Town Line Road and you're biking up

[2:15:07] the hill and you want to go to depalo's we want them to cross

[2:15:12] at wherever the location is and then proceed up on the other side of the road

[2:15:18] it's not it's going from Allen engineering to to who's going from

[2:15:22] Allen's to go get you know a muffin at at the orchard it's that's where you

[2:15:29] would cross to get to the other side of the road to continue on to act so if you

[2:15:35] wanted to go to Sugar and Spice you would cross there in order to go all the

[2:15:39] way up Poss Network you got to have a crosswalk

[2:15:44] that it needs to be significantly uphill from that very

[2:15:50] right places

[2:15:59] for frames it yeah it is a small cost though um the paint is really low cough

[2:16:05] that's something that certainly you could include in the grant um I I would

[2:16:09] agree it does help you better establish that

[2:16:14] place thank you for coming but we do we agree that need to do something so we we

[2:16:20] at least need to start taking an approach of the striping and the

[2:16:24] narrowing and the yeah

[2:16:32] so as much as I think like you know start with the end in mind yeah we can

[2:16:37] do that but do it in phased approach and then maybe we get more um that of the

[2:16:43] 800 tax properties maybe we get to 900 you know we see that we can do this and

[2:16:50] then do the next phase and then you know to a th000 taxal well it's Redevelopment

[2:16:55] of those properties on roof for bringing other businesses in and making a Vibrant

[2:17:00] Community where we' plan to um and taking advantage of of parcels that we

[2:17:06] already have and taking advantage of the less

[2:17:11] verticalized part of the roadway right the parts of the roadway that are that

[2:17:16] are more pedestrian friendly to begin with and grow it up and I don't mean to

[2:17:22] leave anybody out but the some of the business owners were here in the more

[2:17:26] flat area that to me makes sense to then work our way up and connect with

[2:17:31] Killington as Kress and they're redoing their whole as

[2:17:37] you said earlier G you know where the where the Welcome Center is and the town

[2:17:41] offices like they're redoing their pedestrian and crossing and bikes up

[2:17:45] there too so we'll have more information as sa for us and made and we haven't

[2:17:51] talked about Rutland I think it's Rutland City

[2:17:55] having the road diet yep so things are we are starting to get

[2:18:01] there yeah there is definitely a push on any of these major arterials that belong

[2:18:06] to be trans to to change the character when you're in the Village area for sure

[2:18:12] I think from the perspective ofing committee

[2:18:16] and

[2:18:20] make all the applications the issue is what can we do now what can we do

[2:18:24] relatively inexpensively like spring which may achiev the the kind of

[2:18:29] unanimous impression we need to do whatever we can to reduce the speed and

[2:18:34] maybe that will start to drive some Rehabilitation properties and so forth

[2:18:38] while we think about longer term things like multi share path but I don't what I

[2:18:46] kind of doubt this steering commit is going to be recommending and I doubt

[2:18:50] that our select board is going to recommend is that we just make it easier

[2:18:54] to get from Killington to R the city but that's not

[2:18:58] our this project so while I'm but I'm offer increased bicycle

[2:19:05] traffic and bont and so on so forth question the town's going to have to ask

[2:19:09] itself is how does that help mended so is having a whole bunch of mountain

[2:19:14] bikers coming from Rochester to findle park

[2:19:17] don't do anything in our town except Traverse it and potentially on the

[2:19:22] highway Le fality how does that help our town so while we have a regional thing

[2:19:28] we want to accomplish we still have to from and perspective we still at what's

[2:19:34] in it so that's

[2:19:39] why striking issues trying to get the change custom change Behavior improve

[2:19:45] property so I'm get

[2:19:52] that would have to be voted on soon right yeah you know what I'm saying so

[2:19:57] you know and I don't want to stret your speeding out any further right the

[2:20:00] question is is that what is that give that you don't have got people slowing

[2:20:04] down but what does that do I don't understand potentially let's say you

[2:20:09] let's say demonstr time the striping slows the speed of now you can put in a

[2:20:14] crosswalk because the state would say yeah justifi to rep put up a sign saying

[2:20:19] 40 instead of 45 maybe they changed the signage instead of a flashing yell say

[2:20:23] slow 45 flashing yell say congested District ah had slow 40 so well that in

[2:20:31] the appearance of we are a town yeah um and not a drive-thru so people can slow

[2:20:37] down and pull over at the gift shop and and notice it bu something that they

[2:20:42] stop when they're going 65 a I'm not there

[2:20:49] District ideally what you're trying to do is make it feel like a place so

[2:20:52] people drive in a Fairmount slower and this it and then businesses find it more

[2:20:57] appealing like that's that you want some of those businesses to invest to to re

[2:21:03] to you know some of them that are business to become

[2:21:08] business and don't I'm just you know don't think this the wrong way it but

[2:21:13] I'm a businessman I just don't see like how slowing it down makes me want to

[2:21:16] open a business there you understand what I'm saying that there has to be

[2:21:19] some sort of I don't know you need to have some sort of draw you need a reason

[2:21:25] right to stop so but but I'm saying this a bigger question right so but in the

[2:21:30] meantime then yes I'm I'm all for the the the uh the moderate approach right

[2:21:35] the engaged approach because um yeah I mean let's see how go money

[2:21:41] right the question is though if it's grant money right you got to ma the

[2:21:46] grant then you have to Main more

[2:21:55] anyway online is anyone still with us online still online there a lot ofs and

[2:22:03] the shies path and whatever treatment is done it should have actually be done

[2:22:06] through theard or okay great did anyone online want to

[2:22:11] verbally provide comment obviously

[2:22:16] perfect shell yes oh yes hold on shell Rose is

[2:22:23] is changing okay okay

[2:22:27] good go ahead

[2:22:34] shell do usound I think that was just feedback

[2:22:40] from us oh unfortunately shelle we are having

[2:22:45] trouble hearing from you

[2:22:53] she no she's trying but no so Rose your volume is up and yeah

[2:22:58] no can she type her question yeah I'm I'm so sorry sh if you want to type your

[2:23:05] question happy

[2:23:12] to

[2:23:16] anything so I just wanted to ask one more thing

[2:23:20] um you when you're uh setting out your findings um your report will you say

[2:23:28] though there was large um desire to see you know a 10 year five year

[2:23:36] whatever eight year 18 year whatever plan which Encompass the F and then but

[2:23:43] the purposes of this think I I'm going to talk but I've

[2:23:48] heard from some of the stiring committee and I look forward to Consulting with

[2:23:53] all of them it sounds like the recommended long-term approach would be

[2:23:57] with a goal of providing a shared use path through amended however we'd like

[2:24:03] to do that in stages and we think in the short term the appropriate thing would

[2:24:07] be to look at changing the way the road is striped to better accommodate

[2:24:11] pedestrians and cyclists on the shoulder in a safer way but with then perhaps a

[2:24:16] phase two or in combination with the phase one think of the chuse path in the

[2:24:21] village where we expect there to be more demand for it and how it connects to up

[2:24:25] to the Northwoods pool or you know other destinations in the village and within

[2:24:31] later phases continuing to lead

[2:24:36] up I think that's that's what I've heard today so is a member of the steering

[2:24:42] committee so I I mean just been the interest of time because we've been at

[2:24:45] this for two hours now um do you want to wrap up for the

[2:24:49] steering committee like what the next steps are going to be because ultimately

[2:24:53] you know Jen can't design everything that she's described here for

[2:24:57] Alternatives she's kind of coalesced what she thinks might be the

[2:25:03] preferred but that that that is my next question for those of the steering

[2:25:08] committee who are here and we'll exchange an email as well just to make

[2:25:11] sure we get everyone's input because I know someone wasn't here is um did you

[2:25:16] hear what I heard I just summarized it for you but Rose will have it in her

[2:25:20] notes in case she heard it differently or Elizabeth heard it Stephanie heard it

[2:25:23] differently um but what I heard and what I take as my charge from that is for

[2:25:29] this to be a successful product and report I have to come up with then what

[2:25:34] are the constraints around that because I was con you know concentrating my

[2:25:39] share juice pack off a different area than necessarily we're talking about

[2:25:44] here um I have to look at those about evaluate those impacts and think about

[2:25:49] what those you know we all know in that area that I will call the hurricane Ira

[2:25:54] area um you know it's going to be talk to accomplish Shar these path there we

[2:25:58] have to look to see how that could be and what the impacts of how do you get

[2:26:02] that permitted like that could be challenging um you know those those

[2:26:06] types of things so but I I would like to confirm and I will do this VI an email

[2:26:11] that that is the direction and that that is the long-term vision of the town and

[2:26:17] um then we can put together the scoping study with kind of that gaser approach

[2:26:20] that I just mentioned if the steering committee is supportive of it so Sarah

[2:26:25] in terms of getting final approval from the town as

[2:26:30] to what gen should use to finalize the report is there going to be a step I

[2:26:38] mean I'm assuming the steering committee is not going to make that decision

[2:26:41] you're going to carry yeah the steering committee should

[2:26:46] make the rec engb right um so Jen will give you something to

[2:26:54] work with as far as a preferred alternative based on all these options

[2:26:58] so it'll get steering committee approved or edited first and then something

[2:27:04] brought forward to the select board to sign off on and then she'll proceed with

[2:27:10] that in that is the alternative in the report yeah so your initial research

[2:27:17] though had less um barriers on the west side of the

[2:27:25] road on the sugar and SP side of the road going down to yes yeah yep that was

[2:27:31] where we had but it fits in with what people said

[2:27:34] about having it on the North side for the rest of the corridor which is nice

[2:27:39] because what we don't want to do is to create a w pth that cross yeah um the

[2:27:45] the only concern I have with that is that most of the

[2:27:49] recreational uses in mending are on the other side of the road and that we

[2:27:54] were're not accessing wheelerville road which has all the hiking

[2:27:58] p and it's heavily used and it's heavily used so and you know kind of tying into

[2:28:05] what Fred said about making sure that we're presenting what's best for what's

[2:28:10] best for Ming are we connecting resources correctly we connecting

[2:28:16] resources think about that by looking again we'll have to just double check

[2:28:19] the the resource constraints um so maybe we think about doing on the south side

[2:28:24] of Route four and then think about having a goal of having a Crossing near

[2:28:32] um you know Park Lane or you know one of the connections to have to the northw

[2:28:37] Pole right why couldn't it be on one side and kind of coming up from the

[2:28:43] Rutland Town Line and then switch over certainly it can if you were going to I

[2:28:49] would do it right in that kind of Village area and make that transition in

[2:28:52] the village yeah that's certainly where you want a crossing

[2:28:56] any yeah so yeah I guess I'm not quite s on

[2:29:03] keeping it on one side or the other and I think at the Rutland Town Line at Town

[2:29:09] Line Road I think from the local concerns there was talk about a Crossing

[2:29:13] there as well to get from town Ro to the other side that's going to be a tough

[2:29:20] one again because it's headed downhill and speeds there yeah so I'm not sure

[2:29:25] about a crosswalk at that location I think that's going to be harder than

[2:29:30] harder to um manipulate than in the actual Village District where where we

[2:29:36] have a little it's not as steep but we have a little more control over it s

[2:29:41] also Recreation Center which is way down La of which is other side as well that

[2:29:47] people so the Shar pass coming up from l Road on that side of the road up

[2:29:54] until they can safely cross somewhere beyond the

[2:29:59] orchard um so that they can get on the other side of the road in order

[2:30:03] to go to depalo's coffee or or down to Sugar and Spice or go over to

[2:30:10] Northwood um seems to make a little bit more sense as far as connecting our

[2:30:16] resources

[2:30:18] but we're still oh but then we're on the North side and we want to be then

[2:30:25] on the south side for wheeler though however yeah

[2:30:29] yeah hard our resour yeah past Sugar and Spice going up so you're still talking

[2:30:38] about being on the North side up to like the village and then at the village is

[2:30:43] where you then would transition over to access most of the resources that are on

[2:30:49] the uphill side through the village are on the right hand side of the right so

[2:30:54] there to the trails

[2:30:59] from where is that um it's the vending road so you go

[2:31:06] downtown Lane Road and then up the notch Road in order to turn on we have a small

[2:31:12] Recreation Area there that's that's what I thought you there was the crosswalk

[2:31:18] down at that end and then

[2:31:23] connection to you know to the Northwoods pool because I'm in the bed enough

[2:31:27] people that I probably um you know would like to be a part of that connecting to

[2:31:32] that resource and then there's a huge demand to want to put some sort of share

[2:31:38] use path on for we get wider so that it's safer to walk on room we it just

[2:31:44] that takes a lot of coordination between the two

[2:31:51] communities okay um yeah so we can see about laying it out and think about what

[2:31:55] those where how to how to cross people how to

[2:32:01] um what look at what those resource impacts would be doesn't seem that it

[2:32:05] would be good to have that multi-use path sort of stay on one side and then

[2:32:12] anticipate going up to the town lining up here P right and not be

[2:32:21] Crossing yeah I mean let's think about it I mean let's think about whether it

[2:32:25] makes sense I don't love it going and crossing and Crossing back like I think

[2:32:29] it would be better to try to be more consistent and have Crossings to get to

[2:32:34] the destinations you want to get to um but if it crosses once if that makes

[2:32:38] sense I I think that could work um let's give it a little thought and

[2:32:44] look at those resource constraints

[2:32:51] yeah right so that I think that transition zone is going to determ a lot

[2:32:56] honestly I don't know if you're gonna have an off-road option I don't know if

[2:33:00] I am either which is kind why I stayed away from it but it's evated I mean if

[2:33:04] that's um you know an Offroad auction is going to be really challenging in that

[2:33:08] transition zone and you know look at what you to that

[2:33:15] yeah

[2:33:19] let's look at it I mean I can see why people want it but that could be it

[2:33:24] could be challenging think it's gonna be outside

[2:33:28] your

[2:33:32] budg that's right you can always build it it's how much it's gonna C the

[2:33:37] problem thank you everybody online sticking with

[2:33:45] us

[2:33:49] and I don't know how you collaborate with the with the towns but that's a I

[2:33:53] mean I history getting grant money the more

[2:33:58] you show collaboration with and I actually don't know where that goes but

[2:34:04] when when you look at that area how does that get over the Middle Lane Drive does

[2:34:09] that go over to chy I mean the the the path the pathway know had a number of

[2:34:14] different Maps no oh the the most recent I saw was the section it's gonna come

[2:34:21] from the CH and pfield TR just completed it's going to come through M through the

[2:34:26] national forest it will be a Spur that connects to the Killington Trail a Spur

[2:34:30] that connects to the forest service and the main Line's going to go out towards

[2:34:34] like Northwood and the idea is that it connects to Northwood and then from

[2:34:38] there to like Pine Hill through the city why I asked that question is because

[2:34:41] when we had the the I remember we came up with the chip Highway that went J but

[2:34:49] how do you think living

[2:34:55] int know when you think about that oh that they were gonna have the

[2:35:00] alternative that didn't work how were we G to get the kids to bar so they were

[2:35:05] talking about that and I was wondering if that beond path goes over that way so

[2:35:12] I mean that was an alternative the only one that actually we had as a backup so

[2:35:18] I just didn't know I havn't seen a map I'm just finding out about this so Jen

[2:35:23] were you one of the people that had to walk the woodi parkway at night and you

[2:35:26] had Mike Bron warning you about the mother bear and the two Cubs so he had

[2:35:29] no not I only was on the wood Parkway during the day oh yeah long days you

[2:35:36] know good for you I was wondering if it would be if you already know about the

[2:35:41] book we wrote about and and we're still remembering

[2:35:46] that because that really brought our time together

[2:35:49] especially soive as a I've been a tra engineer 30 years like talk about

[2:35:54] Innovative thinking to solve a transportation problem and just um that

[2:36:00] you know you can figure it out without having that highway there like you can

[2:36:04] get people too I got my groceries and although I could have carried M did a

[2:36:08] little one at the time with me um but they did give me a ride

[2:36:14] in well thank you yes than okay folks online we are

[2:36:19] adjourned I'm going to go ahead and just connect have a good rest of your night

[2:36:23] and thank you for joining

[2:36:44] us

US ROUTE 4 CORRIDOR SCOPING STUDY - ALTERNATIVES PRESENTATION

Transcript