[0:08] Okay, good evening everyone. Welcome to the July 13, 2026 council

[0:14] meeting. Uh council, we've got uh Council

[0:19] Donaldson, Council Schuken, myself in the room online. We have Council

[0:25] Councelor Gray. Councelor Gray, can you hear us?

[0:29] Yes, I can. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. So, council, before you, we

[0:34] have the agenda as amended with the addition of the late items. Uh, is that

[0:40] all right? Yep. Moved by councelor Schukan, seconded by councelor Donaldson

[0:46] as amended. All in favor? Opposed?

[0:51] Seeing no opposed, that appro that is approved unanimously. Next, we have

[0:56] presentations. Thank you very much. Um well actually I forgot to do the

[1:02] territorial. Thank you for reminding me. So um I've got notes here somewhere but

[1:08] I think I'll just say territorial acknowledgement like we've done for the

[1:12] last four years. So we sit on um the land of the s coish people um and we

[1:20] acknowledge and recognize our first nations community uh especially the Jano

[1:25] first nations uh to our near uh west here the patchidot far west out near

[1:33] Port Renfruit as well as the suk first nation uh the songis and the first

[1:40] nations and we acknowledge them and we work towards good governance with them

[1:46] and good relationships. Okay, let's move along uh to the

[1:51] presentations. We tonight we have a presentation a delegation from William

[1:57] Head Institution that has been planned for quite some time. Um and um uh the

[2:03] correspondence was on there and I'd like to welcome team warden um Tony uh BL and

[2:10] Renee Pero the assistant warden management services to the podium.

[2:15] Welcome.

[2:20] » Yeah, you'll have to Yeah. And turn the mic. That'd be great.

[2:25] » All right. Testing. Testing. Okay.

[2:31] » Good evening, Mayor Mayor Little. Council members, staff, and community

[2:35] members. My name is Anthony Baldo, and I'm the

[2:38] acting warden of Williamhead Institution. Our substantive warden,

[2:42] Trent Mitchell, is on temporary special assignment now, and he has asked that I

[2:46] speak on his behalf. I have the pleasure of being joined by colleagues act acting

[2:50] deputy warden Renee Parent and assistant warden of operations Jeff Longhurst.

[2:57] Thank you for the opportunity to speak this evening about something that

[3:00] deserves our collective recognition and mutual deep appreciation the strong and

[3:05] collegial relationship between Williamhead Institution the District of

[3:09] Mosen and its surrounding communities. Please know that while I am speaking the

[3:14] memory of Mr. Payne, who had his life taken away in 2019, stays with me and

[3:18] with all the staff at William Head Institution. [clears throat] Our

[3:22] thoughts continue to be with the family and friends of Mr. Bane.

[3:27] William Head Institution sits on the traditional territory of the Beecher Bay

[3:31] First Nation, who thoughtfully granted us the name Shianu, land of the salmon

[3:36] people during our 50-year recognition ceremony in 2009.

[3:41] Established in 1959, William Head Institution, a 200 bed

[3:46] capacity minimum security facility, has been a proud member and neighbor within

[3:52] the community of Machosan for nearly 70 years.

[3:56] Historically, correctional facilities are often understood through the lens of

[4:00] their security mandate. While public safety and accountability remain

[4:05] fundamental responsibilities and are top of mind each day in the decisions made

[4:10] at William Head, they are a crucial part of a larger picture. Within the William

[4:15] Head Institution community are dedicated professionals, volunteers, and community

[4:21] stakeholders who work every day to promote rehabilitation, support personal

[4:26] growth, and prepare individuals for successful reintegration into society

[4:31] and back into our local communities. What makes the relationship between

[4:36] William Head Institution and the community of Machosen special is the

[4:40] understanding that public safety and rehabilitation can only occur when the

[4:44] community and William Head Institution is part of the same narrative and are

[4:48] striving towards the same goals. The relationship between Williamhead,

[4:54] the residents, organizations, businesses, and local government is

[4:58] built on mutual respect, open communication, and a common goal of

[5:03] creating a safer and stronger community for everyone. While recent events have

[5:08] certainly served to test the resolve of our collective relationships, they have

[5:13] also served to strengthen them and have shown us the importance of maintaining

[5:17] robust communication protocols and processes.

[5:21] I know that William Head Institution Management is looking forward to

[5:24] continuing this work with the district and with the RCMP Superintendent

[5:28] Gillespie. I know that this work is well underway and communications procedures

[5:34] have already strengthened between the key stakeholders of the offices

[5:38] mentioned. We have also seen the benefits of this

[5:42] partnership and how William Head Institution offenders have given back to

[5:46] the immediate Machosen community through community service escorted temporary

[5:50] absences, educational opportunities, community initiatives, charitable

[5:56] projects and ongoing dialogue that brings people together rather than

[6:01] keeping them apart. These connections help to educate, clear up

[6:05] misconceptions, build trust, and remind us that meaningful change happens when

[6:10] William Head Institution and the local communities work side by side.

[6:16] In fact, further to the community service escorted at temporary absence,

[6:20] as I mentioned, offenders approved for this program have actually painted the

[6:24] exterior of this building, engaged in the annual setup and takeown of staging

[6:30] equipment from a chosen days year after year, repaired and painted the pavilion

[6:35] as well as the riding ring, and have recently assisted in the cleanup of the

[6:39] St. Mary the Virgin Church Cemetery. The men have for 20 years or more have

[6:46] also been the go-to team to clean up the course and the broom epidemic that is in

[6:52] our community. You'll also see them doing uh trail

[6:57] cleanup and uh remediation as well on occasion.

[7:02] Moreover, it was our community connections group made up of

[7:05] particularly talented offenders who built the little library across the way

[7:10] and have built thousands of toys, sock puppets, and items for charitable

[7:13] auctions over the years. These activities occur daily and the reach is

[7:19] throughout the CRD and beyond. This is community in action.

[7:24] A further testament to community in action can be found through our

[7:27] wonderful citizens advisory committee. The Citizen Advisory Committee or CSE as

[7:33] it's referred to plays a vital role at William Head Institution by fostering

[7:38] transparency, accountability, and meaningful engagement between the

[7:42] institution and the community it serves. Through its independent volunteer

[7:47] members, the CAC provides valuable oversight, offers constructive feedback,

[7:53] and helps ensure that the perspectives of the public are reflected in the

[7:57] correctional environment. Their commitment to observing operations,

[8:01] supporting rehabilitation efforts, and promoting open dialogue contributes to a

[8:05] culture of respect, fairness, and continuous improvement.

[8:09] The dedication and insight of the CAC are instrumental in strengthening public

[8:14] confidence while supporting William Head Institution's mission of safe, secure,

[8:19] and effective reintegration. William Head is extremely fortunate to

[8:24] have such a robust CAC consisting of members from all over the CRD

[8:29] representing a wide range of ages, professions, and background experiences,

[8:33] including folks from right here in Mosen.

[8:36] These volunteers have have unfettered access to the institution and to its

[8:41] offender population, ensuring that the important dialogue between the

[8:45] citizenry, the offenders, and staff remain candid, relevant, and forward

[8:49] focused. I would be remiss in not briefly

[8:52] articulating how William Head Institution supports some of our most

[8:56] vulnerable and racialized populations, an issue that affects communities at

[9:00] large as well as the community within William Head Institution.

[9:05] Indigenous peoples remain significantly over represented in the federal

[9:09] correctional system, accounting for approximately 30% of individuals under

[9:14] CSC jurisdiction, the Correctional Service of Canada. Uh

[9:18] despite representing only 5% of the Canadian population, CSC recognizes that

[9:23] the disparity reflects broader systemic inequities and committed to addressing

[9:27] it through enhanced cultural supports, streamlined release processes, and

[9:31] targeted reintegration and employment initiatives. These efforts have

[9:36] contributed to increased discretionary releases for our indigenous offenders

[9:40] and reduced rates of gradual return to federal custody within five years of

[9:45] sentence completion. The Correctional Service of Canada also

[9:51] has developed a phase black offender strategy to address the over

[9:55] representation of uh offenders in the correctional system. The first phase has

[10:01] already been completed, but including the identification of promising

[10:04] initiatives across the country, efforts to expand successful pilot programs into

[10:09] national practices have been undertaken. In January 2025, CSSE shared a draft of

[10:15] the strategy with the black offenders whose feedback was generally supportive

[10:19] while ongoing consultations with blackled community organizations.

[10:24] CSC is currently funding using uh current funding to implement, evaluate,

[10:30] and research further initiatives to better understand and improve outcomes

[10:34] for our black offenders. But community is also about reciprocity engagement,

[10:40] sorry, is also about reciprocity. In the continued spirit of meaningful

[10:45] community engagement and meeting people where they're at culturally, the

[10:48] offenders of William Head Institution have hosted several ethnicultural

[10:52] events, symposiums, and forums over the past several years. In fact, William

[10:56] Head Institution for the past 10 years has been counted on to spend nearly 70%

[11:01] of the entire region's ethnicultural budget year-over-year.

[11:06] William has has been able to do this as it enjoys very progressive and

[11:09] enlightened relationships with the Intercultural Association of Victoria,

[11:14] Dr. Lisa Gunderson, and the University of Victoria, just to name a couple.

[11:20] Community partnerships such as these are yet another key to contributing to

[11:24] public safety. Perhaps our longest community outreach venture can be found

[11:28] in the annual William Head on Stage Theater Performances, or who's for

[11:32] short. I'm sure many people in the audience are are familiar with who's for

[11:37] 45 years who's has stood as an extraordinary example of transformation

[11:42] transformation transformation transformative power of arts easy for me

[11:47] to say creativity and community through its remarkable performances written by

[11:52] the offenders. The program has pro provided a platform for personal growth,

[11:57] self-expression, and meaningful connection, touching the lives of

[12:00] participants, audiences, volunteers, and supporters alike. This milestone 45th

[12:07] year this fall will not celebrates not only decades of outstanding theatrical

[12:12] theatrical productions, but also a lasting commitment to rehabilitation,

[12:16] inclusion, and hope. The dedication, talent, and pers perseverance of the

[12:20] offenders, community partners, and of the supportive community CRDwide

[12:25] have created a legacy that continues to inspire, demonstrating how the

[12:30] performing arts can foster understanding, build confidence, and

[12:33] build bring people together. It should be noted that who's hosts approximately

[12:38] 2,000 paying guests to see its perform performance each year. That's 2,000

[12:44] paying guests. The healthy relationship between

[12:48] Williamhead Institution and the Machosen community has not been built overnight.

[12:52] It has been built through years, nearly 70 years in fact, of listening,

[12:56] cooperation, problem solving, and shared successes. It is strengthened when

[13:01] challenges are addressed respectfully and timely and when opportunities are

[13:06] embraced together. This evening, I recognize a partnership

[13:10] that reflects those principles. We celebrate the understanding that every

[13:13] person has the capacity for growth, that public institutions can be positive

[13:18] community partners, and that a community is strongest when it works together

[13:22] toward common goals. I'd like to thank you for your time, for your collegiality

[13:27] and commitment to our mission, and for allowing us to be part of your wonderful

[13:31] community of Machosen. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. So, um, council,

[13:40] uh, did you have any comments or questions that you wanted to address to

[13:44] either either parties, the the three, Jeff, uh, Renee, and Tony, the acting

[13:50] warden. Uh, we'll start with council Schukan and then move throughout uh,

[13:57] council table. Thank you. >> Great. Um, uh, through your little, Mr.

[14:02] BLO. Yes. >> Baldo. Sorry. Baldo. Uh, Mr. Mr. Bald,

[14:06] Miss Brown and Mr. Longhurst, thanks very much for being here. Um, of course,

[14:10] top of mind is the whole um situation with the escaped inmate. Um, that

[14:17] situation I think revealed to us that there were some things that we needed to

[14:22] do and learn in terms of our emergency communication. Um I you you probably

[14:30] can't get into depth around the response that you corrections Canada made at at

[14:35] your your site, but I I just wonder if you can maybe talk about what you are

[14:40] doing now to learn and to improve and Yeah. Well, I can tell you right now

[14:45] that as I said in in my uh short presentation that um our staff is

[14:51] actively engaged with the staff here at uh Machosen City Hall and our emergency

[14:57] or first responders. Um Superintendent Gillespie as well and RCMP uh local

[15:02] authorities are also engaged in um sort of dotting eyes and crossing tees and

[15:07] sort of seeing how the communication can be even more efficient and more

[15:11] effective. I think with any um incident or event uh we learn from that and we'll

[15:18] continue to learn. Uh rehabilitation is a is not a straight line. It's a

[15:23] journey. It's a it's a cross country run as opposed to a sprint. And um we we it

[15:31] behooves us to to ensure that we learn from past practices and make future

[15:37] practices stronger and and more effective. and that's where we're at

[15:41] right now. So, thank you for understanding that the the the current

[15:44] uh situation with Mr. Jensen and his passing is under current investigation

[15:49] and I cannot comment further, but that's sort of the lay of the land right now.

[15:55] Thank you. >> Okay, thank you Donaldson.

[16:00] » Thank you. I had a similar um concern about that. we've we've probably each

[16:05] one of us heard from our community and the alarming um effects that go with

[16:10] that. I live near where Mr. Payne lives so I appreciate the acknowledgement at

[16:15] the very beginning of your talk. Um I also want to express my gratitude for

[16:20] the amount of work um that your staff have done over the years and have

[16:26] evolved. Uh as well as the gentleman crew that comes out and works within the

[16:32] community. um having um being a part of that um with the riding ring or and

[16:39] seeing the the recent work at the at the churchyard and the parks and trails

[16:43] you've helped out as well as camp Bernard and some other um projects and I

[16:48] think that that's a very good program in helping these individuals to um

[16:53] gradually get back into our community um having visited the institution as well

[16:58] and different events the ethnic ones um was really interesting for me and also

[17:06] transformative. I'm always learning and I appreciate that we are working that

[17:10] you're working your you're um the institution uh Corrections Canada is

[17:15] working with our staff to assure our residents um that we'll have an improved

[17:21] protocol as to alerting people. Um it was uh it was quite bumpy and people

[17:28] people were obviously alarmed. So, I look forward to the new roll out of a

[17:34] better plan. Thank you. >> Thank you,

[17:38] » Councelor Gray online. Do you have any uh comments or concerns or questions?

[17:45] » Yes. Well, first thanks Mr. Baldo for your presentation and and uh I do want

[17:50] to recognize the contributions your inmates make in our community. So, thank

[17:54] you for that and thank you to the inmates. Um this was I think for many

[17:59] people a frightening experience given what had happened previously uh with a

[18:04] escaped um inmate and I I wasn't sure under previous council I think there

[18:09] were some discussions and perhaps decisions or at least I was had the

[18:13] impression there were about the nature of inmates that would be um kept at

[18:17] William Head and then I think it was yesterday I read an article in the Times

[18:21] colonist which gave quite a description of Mr. Jensen and his time in in the in

[18:26] um Corrections Canada and it made me feel less certain about what's going on.

[18:31] It will that be part of the discussion going forward then? Um is the nature of

[18:36] people who are kept there? Is that part of the issue for us to address?

[18:42] » Well, I I guess how I can respond is that um after Mr. Payne's uh um uh his

[18:50] the taking of Mr. 's life in 2019. There were um adjustments and and changes made

[18:58] uh and how we screen offenders and and exactly what offender profile uh comes

[19:04] to William Hit Institution. I can I assure you that those practices are

[19:09] still in play and as I said earlier um in in in corrections in in a minimum

[19:18] security facility I would be uh remissed to to say if if if I told you that there

[19:24] would be no risk. I think that everybody would understand in human behavior um

[19:28] that there is no such thing as is no risk and it's low risk that we subscribe

[19:34] to. So to answer your your question more directly is we will continue to review

[19:40] closely how we screen offenders to come to William Head Institution. Yes. And um

[19:46] in Mr. Jensen's case um as has been reported there were a lot of factors

[19:51] that um affected Mr. Jensen's um behavior and stay. And uh we will

[19:58] continue to revisit how uh we supported Mr. Jensen and what we can do

[20:04] differently going forward. Thank you. >> Thank you for those comments and and for

[20:09] the work that you're doing on that front. The second issue I wanted to ask

[20:13] about was simply the one of communication. I read in the paper that

[20:17] police were going doortodoor. Otherwise, I heard from residents that

[20:22] there was something on Facebook. Um, but is there a way that we notify residents

[20:29] when when there's a concern of an inmate escaping? Um, or is it or is that at

[20:34] doortodoor and Facebook? >> Um, well, I can only speak from from how

[20:39] we notify. We have a set um list of contacts that we um contact during an an

[20:48] escape or other um similar type of event. And I know that uh when we went

[20:55] through our uh terms of reference and our contingency plan um we checked every

[21:02] bit of the steps along the way. Now what I can't speak to is um what happened

[21:09] internally from from the from this level if you will but I as I said earlier in

[21:15] my um in my presentation that we will do whatever we can to help smooth uh and

[21:21] fill any gaps that may have been that have were experienced uh three or four

[21:28] weeks ago. I guess maybe what I'm curious about the

[21:34] chair is whether it's the police, the institution or the district who's

[21:37] responsible to kind of get the information out to residents. I'm I'm

[21:41] not aware of the protocols and that and I and it and this was kind of um really

[21:46] uncertain. I only heard about it, you know, through an email um and then later

[21:50] heard about Facebook. But is there a who's who's responsible for letting

[21:54] residents know? Is that the district or the institution or the police or all

[21:59] three? >> Well, again, we we notify the police

[22:03] immediately and we also notify uh site contacts in this office immediately as

[22:09] well. After that, uh in terms of direct um public uh console or in um u

[22:16] notification, we as the site don't do that. we have to go through our uh law

[22:23] enforcement partners and our community partners for that information to get

[22:27] through. Uh as you can appreciate, we're dealing with the the the emergent

[22:31] situation of a missing offender at that time, but we also have the duty to make

[22:37] sure that what we know we uh disseminate to our immediate community as soon as as

[22:43] practical.

[22:46] » Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Um we're just going to

[22:52] turn to Bob Pad, our CEO. Go ahead, Bob. >> Thanks for the chair.

[22:57] Um thanks for all the information. Uh Deputy Warden, that's all good. People

[23:02] want to hear that and if it's possible to have your comments, we could uh um

[23:08] you know, maybe make that public as well um so people can read because not

[23:13] everybody's here tonight obviously or listening. Um couple things. Um

[23:20] it would be interesting. I would be interested to know uh who when you refer

[23:25] to screening um for um inmates I guess you call them

[23:32] uh to be in Mosen like who exactly does that and um I'm of the belief that

[23:40] somehow the local community should be involved in that process or at least

[23:43] have some fidelity in that review process if that's even possible. Um,

[23:51] second point is, um, today I noticed that there was a CSC van out front.

[23:57] Maybe there was some volunteers doing something, you know, chosen. Um, I'm I'm

[24:02] not aware of it and I find it interesting that, you know, that there's

[24:07] inmates doing operational stuff in the community. I have no I have no awareness

[24:13] of it. So, I think we need to work on that uh on that relationship a little

[24:17] bit better. Thanks. Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Anybody else there want to add

[24:25] anything towards the communication piece?

[24:28] » Nope. Okay. >> Um

[24:31] » yes, Steve here. >> I haven't yet for if you if you can wait

[24:36] until I speak and then you can speak for the second time. Um I just want to

[24:40] acknowledge uh uh all three of you here. Um, as is mentioned in the letter, I am

[24:48] a part of the CAC. I'm an official member of the community advisory

[24:53] committee. And the reason why I did that, and I know that's not uh what has

[24:57] happened at the district before, but I thought it was really important that we

[25:01] have a good communication between the district of Mosen and William Head

[25:06] Institution because we do have u work release uh throughout the CRD. I'm a

[25:12] member of the CRD board as vice chair. I thought it was just really important

[25:16] that we have that communication and that that uh you were in my uh mobile phone

[25:21] and and recognized here at the district if there was something that was to go

[25:26] wrong. Um and I think uh the proof was in the pudding to tell you the truth in

[25:32] this incident. This incident was very sad and very very frightening for my

[25:36] community. Um however um we followed the emergency protocol uh when as I

[25:43] understood it um and what we've talked about is when an inmate is not accounted

[25:49] for uh the CSC uh notifies the RCMP. Once that happens it becomes there's a

[25:58] second count but there's also that is now an RCMP investigation. Um I was and

[26:05] at the same time I was at the farmers market. I came over here um to do some

[26:10] business in my office. Almost simultaneously I received a a text from

[26:15] the uh warden at the prison and a call from the RCMP superintendent. So that

[26:21] was within uh 30 minutes or so and then it proceeded from there. Um I called our

[26:28] CEO. He came in from Souk within about 15 minutes and joined me here. Um, and

[26:35] we were discussing what was the next steps. I knew that we were going to get

[26:39] authorization from the Correctional Services Canada on what could be said. I

[26:45] was waiting for the RCMP to give me some notification of what were the next step.

[26:50] This was my responsibility here because I am the the chief executive officer,

[26:56] the mayor. I'm responsible for the health and well-being of 5,067

[27:01] citizens. Um, and we had good communication. This

[27:06] continued on um into the night. Prior to that, um, CEO Payet uh, said, "If you

[27:14] need me, I'll be here." Um, CEO Payet left. I went into the community because

[27:22] I was worried that citizens that don't have access to Facebook, don't have

[27:27] access to their phone were recreating in the district. In particularly, I knew

[27:33] that the art pod at our municipal owned school uh was there painting for their

[27:38] next exhibition and they wouldn't be looking at their cell phone. So, I went

[27:42] there [snorts] to u let them know what has happened and I didn't have a lot of

[27:47] information at that time. I went door todo to all the businesses and everybody

[27:52] that that I could all the business owners uh to talk about that. I also

[27:57] went out to William Head um to talk to the RCMP officers that there. This

[28:03] continued into the night. Um, and I was liazing back and forth with um, Trent

[28:09] Mitchell, our warden, Superintendent Terry Terry Gillespie at the RCMP, as

[28:15] well as uh, Shano First Nations uh, Chief Rush Chips, who is in Vancouver

[28:21] um, recovering from surgery there, as well as the counselor, the only

[28:25] counselor that was available um, and in uh, the band or at the band, which was

[28:31] uh, Tracy Oman. So I was uh communicating back and forth between all

[28:36] of these five people. It was me uh that put it on Facebook because I was trying

[28:42] to figure out what is the best way to get this to the community. I know that

[28:45] many members of the community are on fa Facebook not all. Uh so that was and I I

[28:52] relayed official information not circumsp

[28:57] circumspect my opinion. It was official um information on on how it was

[29:03] unfolding to reassure the public but to give them as much information as

[29:08] possible that was actual um information and factual. Um, and during the night I

[29:16] woke up every hour on the hour. I set my my mobile um calendar because Chief

[29:22] Chips wanted to know. And so that's what I did. The next morning, we had various

[29:28] um inquiries from the press. I knew that the RCMP were having their own press

[29:34] release uh press conference at the RCMP. I suspected that there was something

[29:40] going on at um still at the prison because we could see the helicopters

[29:44] above and I had had communications from Trent Mitchell. Um and at that point I

[29:51] decided to call a press conference here so that the press could hear everything

[29:55] that had happened in the past not quite 24 hours but that they would all hear uh

[30:01] my statement simultaneously and they would all hear the same message. uh that

[30:06] was typed out my message um and it was given to all of the the press that were

[30:11] here. Additional copies were given to their colleagues for their colleagues

[30:15] that weren't there. And so u that's sort of a communicate

[30:20] that is exactly how it it unfolded. There are gaps in the system that we've

[30:26] been able to identify um and uh there's there are things that we did right and

[30:31] there are some gaps and we will do better in the future. But I'm very very

[30:36] happy that I've spent the time over the past four years to have those good

[30:40] communications to meet monthly with the personnel at William Head Institution as

[30:47] well as good communications with our new superintendent of the RCMP, Terry

[30:52] Gillespie, and his colleagues. Okay. Any other comments or concerns?

[30:59] Okay. With that, I'll thank you. >> Thank you.

[31:02] » Yes. >> Thank you, counselor. And you you don't

[31:06] have to stay. Um we've got a long night and I I imagine you don't want to stay

[31:10] for till 11. So thank you very much for joining us.

[31:14] » Thank you. Mayor >> Mayor Little, you'd asked if I had

[31:17] another comment and I do. >> I'm sorry.

[31:20] » It's a C. You'd asked if I had another question or comment and I do have one.

[31:24] » Oh, I apologize. Go ahead. >> Yeah. Well, thank you for for reporting

[31:29] out on on your activities and I very much appreciate that businesses were

[31:33] notified. My concern, I guess, lies with the residents of the community and I

[31:38] think that Facebook and email just doesn't cut it. Um, and I'm wondering if

[31:43] we might get advice from the institution if if our role is in fact to notify

[31:47] residents rather than the police. Um maybe in our communications plan that

[31:52] we're building now or the protocols that we heard about a moment ago being

[31:55] revised, we might find out from the institution or from kind of um

[32:01] corrections Canada what's done in other communities and how do they manage it?

[32:06] Are there lessons we can get there? Is there anything like amber alert type

[32:10] activity or phone trees? We have our our emergency pods which kicked into action

[32:15] but but delayed. And then the other point, so so just I think it would be

[32:19] good if if that communication plan as it's developed came back to council so

[32:24] we could see it and share it with the public. And then my final comment would

[32:28] be that it would be really great to know what the messages actually were. I think

[32:33] they were lock your doors, but I'm and and um and um but I don't know really

[32:41] what else was was out there. Um did we talk about outuildings? be careful about

[32:46] out build out buildings or check on your neighbors. I'm not totally sure. I

[32:50] didn't really see anything in that regard uh out to residents. So, those

[32:55] are just my comments about if we could have a report back to council from staff

[32:58] as they work forward on it. Thank you very much.

[33:01] » Do you wish to comment on that? >> I can definitely comment on the first

[33:05] part that um with uh Did you want to come up and Okay, I'll have um Jeff come

[33:11] up. He was doing the the the hard work here with regards to that.

[33:15] » Okay. Thank you for joining us, Mr. Longhurst. Go ahead. Go ahead.

[33:19] » Okay. I got to lower this a little bit. Yeah, there was a big tall guy here. Um,

[33:24] okay. Can everybody hear me? Okay. Um, yes. So, uh, the question going back

[33:30] about, um, notification for public, I believe that's something that we might

[33:38] be able to, uh, take a look at in the future. Uh, I do have contacts at other

[33:43] minimum minimum sites across the country. So, this is something that is

[33:48] sort of in my wheelhouse of uh, the side of things. Um, so I can explore that as

[33:54] we go into the future. Uh, was there another question that was

[33:58] attached to that?

[34:04] » So, may I the coding speaking for the council? Great. The coding

[34:08] » the coding like lock your door or whatever like

[34:11] » Oh, okay. What does that mean? >> Uh, we don't do we don't do that. Um, we

[34:16] don't say lock your door. We don't do any of that kind of stuff. So, uh, um,

[34:22] I'm not sure where that would have came from, but, uh, it wouldn't be from a

[34:27] Correctional Service Canada site. So, >> right. And that that makes sense to me

[34:34] because once once the prison, as I understand, the Correctional Services

[34:39] Canada notifies the RCMP, it's no longer correctional services jurisdiction, if

[34:45] I'm using the correct terminology. The jurisdiction is actually RCMP. It's now

[34:50] their investigation and once and >> yeah it's a it becomes a command center

[34:56] within the site. >> Uh so then it's a joint force between uh

[35:00] our operations and uh the RCMP. >> Right. So the communications regarding

[35:05] that would be an RCMP piece. Yes. Any notification would be an RCMP piece.

[35:11] » Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay.

[35:15] Okay. that we forgot to mention. I did lies with Kathleen Sutherland, our

[35:20] volunteer emergency management coordinator uh that evening. Um and uh

[35:27] she had what had happened. She had a resident earlier in the day respond that

[35:31] she had heard there was an incident at William Head Institution. Um she

[35:36] immediately went to Facebook to see if there was something on there. She saw my

[35:41] post um and saw that it was on official uh Correctional Services Canada uh

[35:47] notification and their verbiage and she took that as authorization that she had

[35:52] factual information that she could then send out to all the pod leaders the the

[35:57] the pod leaders um throughout the district. So, anybody that has signed up

[36:03] for that being in a pod and who had access to a computer or a phone would

[36:09] have received that pod notification. And I think that was about I've got my I

[36:14] don't have my notes with me, but it's about 3:00 in the afternoon or or so.

[36:18] So, we've continually asked people to sign up for those notifications if

[36:23] people don't want if they want to live off the grid, if they if they want to be

[36:27] left alone. we have honored that and and we don't have a a um a phone number for

[36:34] we don't have a email address for every resident. It's if you've opted into the

[36:39] system, you would have received that notification and I one of the council

[36:44] members here did uh say that that um uh his wife is a pod leader and he received

[36:51] that notification at the same time and and um so that's good that the pod

[36:57] system worked. uh in that case and many residents were identifi were notified by

[37:02] the pod system. Okay, any other questions?

[37:08] Okay, with that, thank you very much to this review.

[37:20] Thank you.

[37:44] Okay, next we're going to move to public participation.

[37:49] We have four minutes per person to a maximum of 45 minutes. So, we'll

[37:54] conclude this session at 8:30. Um, if you could state your name, your road,

[38:01] and we are accepting respectful conversation this evening. Thank you.

[38:08] Good evening. Uh, first of all, I'd like to thank members of council and the

[38:12] mayor for your service up to this point and hope you have a good summer. Uh,

[38:18] deserve a break for a bit. My name is Gary Smurfett.

[38:23] I'm a 40-year member of Machosen. Live on Gilbert Drive. I'm also a member

[38:29] of the Fireh Hall technical team. I'm here tonight with member Claus Craig and

[38:35] our Sean Shen who's our technical support here.

[38:43] Tonight on the agenda you have our proposal for services was accepted by

[38:47] council on May the 25th and we started work on June the 5th with our meet and

[38:55] greet with the mayor with the the CEO I'm sorry. [laughter]

[39:00] And uh tonight there's our progress report for the first month and an

[39:04] updated plan action and uh we're hoping to keep going forward on it. So I'd just

[39:11] like to uh say we're here if you have any questions. Uh if afterwards the

[39:17] meeting if members of the public want to grab us in the hallway, we'll be more

[39:20] than pleased to talk to them as well. Thank you very much.

[39:24] » Thank you.

[39:37] John Ren stro just want to make a correction mayor

[39:41] little I mean you said that good communication hasn't

[39:46] happened before well that's just not true we've always had good communication

[39:51] with William head I even I served on the CAC myself for several years After that,

[39:57] we had council members that served on it and more recently in my time, Bob

[40:02] Mitchell was a CAC member for a long time and reported almost monthly to the

[40:08] council as to what was going on there. And

[40:14] as to how the community got alerted, I was immediately alerted by the RCMP

[40:21] whenever there was any problems with William.

[40:25] I immediately referred that initially and then just was automatic

[40:31] went to Chief Dunlop's community alert system and that community alert system

[40:38] was very heavily subscribed by residents of this community. So that that was the

[40:45] main way it got sent out. Also then we contacted staff and staff uh put it on

[40:52] the website and did all sorts of other stuff too. the community knew but

[40:56] primarily through Chief Dunlop's community alert system instantly when

[41:01] something like that happened and you know

[41:08] [clears throat]

[41:10] this coun previous councils we were heavily involved with corrections Canada

[41:14] particularly with the uh the murder that took place

[41:20] and the problem there was overrides it was the sending warden overrides and and

[41:25] we and myself, we went right to uh some of the top people in the Corrections

[41:31] Canada thing right across the country and worked on that and the overrides

[41:35] were changed. Not a lot, but they were changed and

[41:40] those are the changes that I believe that this the assistant warden was

[41:44] referring to. But anyways, we had very good communications. We had

[41:51] set up really positive structures where the community could be advised.

[41:57] So I'd appreciate it if you didn't say good

[42:02] communication has only happened now and it never occurred before.

[42:08] » I we don't usually respond during public participation but I will respond.

[42:13] I thought that we could have better communication. That's why I put my name

[42:17] forward for the uh CAC. Um I wasn't aware that you were a member of the CIC.

[42:24] Um that has never been communicated to me. Certainly Bob Mitchell was a part of

[42:28] the CAC. Um and remember I was on council uh last term and so I was fully

[42:35] aware what the communications were regarding uh the last prison break and

[42:41] the murder of Mr. Payne. regarding the overrides. Anybody in the community can

[42:48] go to the Correctional Services Canada website and find out what was done at

[42:53] Correctional Services regarding that incident and how they've pivoted uh

[42:58] including I wouldn't say overrides but uh giving more authority to the warden

[43:05] at William Head in terms of who is accepted at the prison and who is not

[43:10] accepted. No, I'm not accepting. Um, you're this is not

[43:15] » I'm not telling it the way it was. That's okay.

[43:20] Mayor, >> you want to keep this council chamber

[43:23] business?

[43:26] » Enough, >> Mr. Rance. Enough.

[43:32] » Enough. Enough.

[43:38] » I apologize to everybody. This is a very serious debate. It's not a debate. This

[43:44] is a very serious matter. We need to stick to the facts.

[43:49] Go to the Correctional Services Canada and see what they've done since the last

[43:55] prison break and the murder of Martin Payne, who was a beloved member of this

[44:01] community. Go there and find out. Okay, please calm down in the back. If there

[44:10] are problems with this, we'll remove everybody from the chamber.

[44:15] Please keep your comments to yourself. Please go to the website for

[44:20] Correctional Services of Canada, what they've done since that murder of Mr.

[44:25] Payne. They've there's more authorization

[44:29] uh for the warden to um accept or not accept inmates as well

[44:35] as they've done a lot of um safety guards um regarding their counts. Go to

[44:42] the website, find out the facts rather than rely on innuendo and and um hearsay

[44:48] information. Okay, let's move to the next

[44:57] Patty White House, Rocky Point Road. And I just want to express my appreciation

[45:01] for the very readable and informative progress report from the fireh hall

[45:06] technician team. >> Thank you.

[45:18] » Um, for the record, we heard through our pod very quickly. I don't know the

[45:21] process it got there, but it got there quickly.

[45:23] » I'm glad that you heard from the pod. [laughter] If you could identify

[45:26] yourself. >> Madame Mayor, I'm Clayton Baker, a

[45:29] resident of 5109 William Head Road. Um, I also own in partnership with my family

[45:34] 3659 Soup Road. For clarity, I'm here in today in respect to the soup road

[45:39] properties. We have put forward development

[45:43] proposals in the past on this on our property. Since we began this process,

[45:48] we have received a lot of public feedback. As a result of this feedback

[45:51] and other information we've gathered, we believe we have a better understanding

[45:55] of the concerns of this uh residents and the level of support for the project

[46:00] that exists for the project. To this end, we also want to keep the

[46:03] conversation going. This brings me to my next point. We are in the process of

[46:08] revising our development proposal to reflect what we've learned so far. We

[46:12] intend to bring the revised proposal to Machosen in time for the August council

[46:17] meeting. We also believe that it will be a benefit to get better education of

[46:21] where Mosen residents are on the developing the Supro corridor for

[46:25] commercial and light industrial use for things like mini storage and and others.

[46:30] Um we feel the residents are generally supportive to expanding the tax base in

[46:36] this manner. It is my belief that this would be a logical way to maintain the

[46:40] rural nature of chosen while at the same time providing options for future

[46:44] councils to meet upcoming challenges without placing the burden of the cost

[46:50] of these challenges on the residents. As we believe this information be

[46:56] beneficial to the chosen as well as ourselves, we are prepared to fund the

[47:00] cost of adding a question to the election on October 17th that provides

[47:05] clarity for residents and if they see this as a way forward. Specifically, we

[47:10] would ask residents, we would like to ask residents if they would support

[47:14] limited expansion of commercial light industrial zoning on soup road in

[47:17] accordance to the community plan. I want to emphasize this is not specific to our

[47:21] thing just the general stretch not to our development in particular with the

[47:26] time of proposal it is our intent to make this not election issue but to make

[47:29] it more of a opportunity for the residents to be heard um

[47:35] I suspect I don't know that there would be a cost to adding a question like this

[47:39] to the election and we'd be willing to bear that cost so respectfully thank you

[47:46] » okay just to uh clarify there's no council meeting in August. There is a

[47:50] September 21st meeting. >> Then I screwed up my research.

[47:54] » That's fine. [laughter] That's >> okay.

[47:56] » Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you.

[48:07] » My name is Mark Gross and I live on Mat Lake Park Road. I'd like to comment on a

[48:13] variance request for my street. Um, I want to become aware of this variance

[48:19] request was being tabled today on your agenda in a letter from the district

[48:24] which arrived on Friday and I haven't had a chance to see the complete

[48:28] variance request but I would like to comment on it since they're considering

[48:32] it today. Um, my first point is that I'm the neighbor that would probably be most

[48:39] impacted. is the variance request for a secondary suite and um the variance is

[48:45] to increase the distance allowable. So I'm probably the neighbor that would

[48:50] be most affected by this because it's moving in the direction of my property.

[48:53] It's moving towards my property line. I'm on the immediate west side uh of the

[48:59] uh property in question here. And um my family's concern is that uh this

[49:05] potentially increases disturbance and noise and voices. This summer for the

[49:10] first time in the three years that we've lived there, we could actually hear

[49:14] personal discussions uh from their property as they were building uh the

[49:20] home and um and so that you know they sit on your deck in your house and you

[49:25] hear personal conversation would not be enjoyed by anybody. So that's one

[49:29] concern by bringing it closer to us. The second uh concern is that we were uh

[49:36] approached by a representative for the property last fall and at the time we

[49:42] were asked to assign a supporting uh letter uh for uh a variance request um

[49:50] to increase the distance between the secondary suite and the and the main

[49:54] house. And my wife and I believe it was for 8 feet or 2 meters. I might be wrong

[49:59] on that. But trying to remember back that seemed to be what the request was

[50:04] going to be for. But what I see in the letter of Friday that we received Friday

[50:09] is that the request is for 30 ft. It's 9.1 m.

[50:14] And um so that's quite different from what we had signed to though I don't

[50:20] have a copy of the uh full application so I could be wrong. The weather was 8

[50:25] ft but that's what we think. Um so we signed in good faith because we wanted

[50:31] to welcome the neighbors. Um and this seems to be a little bit um

[50:38] bad faith. That's the impression it gives us. So we're unsure about that.

[50:42] Um, the third comment uh point is that I'm not sure that uh a 61%

[50:50] increase to the bylaw is appropriate for what Mosen wants to achieve with these

[50:56] bylaws. I I believe what it wants achie achieve is keeping the footprint of

[51:01] construction small and that's to contribute to the ambiance of the chosen

[51:06] of this open spaces and biodiversity and so forth. And if this were passed then

[51:13] it seems to me it sets a precedence of other properties even on our street but

[51:19] certainly elsewhere as they come up in the future that such a significant uh

[51:24] variance was allowed. So those are the the three points our concern about

[51:29] disturbance as it comes closer to us um the issue about what had we been

[51:34] approached to agree upon and uh thirdly whether it suits me chosen. So we

[51:40] welcome the neighbors but we think they're overreaching perhaps within the

[51:44] machosen framework uh to achieve something that uh is perhaps

[51:49] inappropriate. Um and that's all I want wanted to have a chance to pass on like

[51:56] our family's comments. Thank you. Thank you for your time.

[51:59] » Thank you.

[52:03] So the the complete package uh the request uh and the planners report was

[52:08] at at the last council meeting that was June 10th I believe. I could be wrong on

[52:15] that date. Uh but we can ask uh staff to send you that that all that

[52:20] correspondence um and the link to the website. Okay. Next

[52:31] Hi, my name is Lynn Pollock. I'm [clears throat] not a resident Mosen, so

[52:35] I apologize for that. However, I'm here to speak

[52:40] um on behalf of the amendment application for 3280 Woodruff Road.

[52:48] So, my name, like I said, is Lynn Pollock. Um, I'm the daughter of John

[52:53] and Peggy Jervis who owned the property at 5280 Woodruff Road. My parents owned

[53:00] the property for 66 years. In more recent years, while my mother

[53:06] was still alive, she had an agreement with CRD to purchase a large portion of

[53:11] her property for park. However, this was never approved. The

[53:17] property means so much to me personally. >> Miss Miss Pollock. Yes,

[53:21] » we've got a member of council online, so if you can just speak directly into it,

[53:26] that would be great. And I'm sorry, just that's fine. Just direct us here. Thank

[53:30] you. >> I'd rather not, but

[53:32] » I know. I know. [laughter] Thank you.

[53:34] » Uh this property means so much to me personally. After my mother passed away

[53:38] and my brother and I inherited the property, we both realized that even if

[53:43] we bought each other out, we couldn't afford to do the upgrades that were

[53:47] needed. nor would it be smart at our ages of 66 and 68 to take on the

[53:53] responsibility of the property. It was so important to the my brother

[53:58] and I that we sold this property to the right buyer.

[54:03] We adamantly agreed after my mother passed away that we didn't want a

[54:08] developer to purchase the property that we wanted it to be kept intact. And as

[54:14] you can appreciate, when you're selling a property, you really can't force

[54:18] another person to do something or not do something.

[54:22] We were approached by the Victoria Humane Society and a deal was made. It

[54:28] was a perfect sale for my brother and I as we knew the property would be kept

[54:33] whole. We thought the Victoria Humane Society has graciously allowed my

[54:39] brother and I to put a plaque on the property in memory of our parents. It

[54:43] reads, "Loving caretakers of this property for 66 years."

[54:51] I'm sorry. It's okay.

[54:59] Victoria Humane Society is also giving me permission to come on the property

[55:05] whenever I want

[55:12] and I have done that. I've done that many times. My mom subscribed to

[55:18] beautiful BC magazine. So whenever it comes she I got to call the magazine

[55:22] there. So I've been there a lot. I've seen the improvements

[55:29] they've done to the property. For example, a new septic field. The old

[55:33] field was 54 years old. Another example of improvements on the property was

[55:39] enormous amounts of cotch broom removed. Both of these are examples of huge

[55:45] environment improvements. All improvements I've seen personally.

[55:50] [snorts] I write I'm did write a letter. So, I

[55:54] write the letter in support of Penny Stone and the Victoria Humane Society

[55:59] application for a zoning change. They've been totally environmentally respectful

[56:04] and responsible with this property. That means much more to me than it does to

[56:11] anyone here. Please note, if they were not being environmentally responsible or

[56:16] respectful of the property, I wouldn't I would be the first person here to speak

[56:21] up against it. And I'm just asking to support the

[56:26] Victoria Humane Society in their application for zoning reszoning. Thank

[56:32] you. >> Thank you. And thank you, Miss Pollock.

[56:35] And and on behalf of council, please accept our condolences. Uh Peggy was uh

[56:42] admired and um a wonderful member of our community. I had tea with her at her

[56:47] house. She was she was generous and um in

[56:51] spirit and with her resources and uh yeah she was a true gem of this

[56:56] community. So our condolences.

[57:01] Okay. Next

[57:12] Gary Lamb Hackmore Drive. Um I just want to raise uh a comment regarding the tax

[57:21] exemptions being sought. uh in that many of the groups

[57:28] um seeking the tax exemption are registered charities and as such are

[57:34] able to provide tax deductible receipts and individuals can then claim a tax

[57:41] deduction uh for their contribution whereas

[57:46] increased property taxes are not tax deducted.

[57:52] » Thank you.

[58:00] Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name is Ivon Becker and I live on Liberty

[58:04] Drive and I'm the president of the Machosen Hall Society. I want to thank

[58:08] staff for their report and for recognizing the Hall Society continues

[58:13] to meet the criteria for the permissive tax exemption. Mosen Community Hall has

[58:18] sub served the community for generations. It provides a place for

[58:22] weddings, celebrations, community groups, emergency support, culture

[58:26] events, and local organizations. Like many uh nonprofits, we rely on certainty

[58:33] so we can budget responsibly, plan maintenance, and continue serving

[58:37] residents. The traditional permissive tax exemption framework has provided

[58:42] that certainty for many years. From the hall society perspective, restoring that

[58:47] framework for 2027 would allow us to focus on operating the hall rather than

[58:52] wondering how future funding decisions may change from year to year along with

[58:56] the added volunteer time to apply for the required grants. Whatever council

[59:00] decides about the long-term direction of this policy in the future, we

[59:04] respectfully ask that the organizations which clearly qualify under the current

[59:08] criteria continue to receive the stability they need to serve the

[59:12] community. Thank you for your time and for your consideration.

[59:15] » Thank you, Miss Becker. Did you um identify yourself as a me a trustee? I

[59:20] didn't hear it. Sorry. >> I'm not a trustee. I'm the president of

[59:23] the Hall Society. >> Okay. Thank you.

[59:33] » Judy Roer, Paris Road. Good evening, Mayor and Council. Thank you for um the

[59:38] opportunity to speak tonight. I am here to express my strong support for

[59:42] maintaining full permissive tax exemptions for all the organizations

[59:47] that have applied. While the report to council frames the cost of these

[59:51] exemptions as an increase in property taxes, it unfortunately repeats a past

[59:56] mistake. It completely fails to calculate the immense value these

[1:00:01] organizations return to the Machosen community. These groups provide vital

[1:00:06] services, programs, community spaces, and environmental stewardship. The value

[1:00:12] to the municipality far exceeds the estimated cost to taxpayers. A true

[1:00:17] costbenefit analysis is simply not complete unless both sides of the

[1:00:22] equations are factored in. We all want to keep taxes as low as possible, but I

[1:00:27] strongly recommend that council look to other areas to generate revenue. For

[1:00:32] instance, pursuing light industrial development opportunities along Souk

[1:00:36] Road would bring in substantial funding without undermining the very

[1:00:40] organizations that serve as the cornerstones of our community. I was

[1:00:44] actually very interested uh in what Mr. Baker said about [clears throat] a

[1:00:48] referendum. I would before that because I think this community does want to see

[1:00:52] some light industrial. Anyways, thank you for your time and consideration.

[1:00:55] » Um Miss France, what road do you live on? Sorry.

[1:00:59] » Uh um sorry, it's Miss Roer. Paris Road.

[1:01:02] » Paris Road. Thank you. >> Sorry, it's very hard to hear with

[1:01:06] hearing aids in this uh right where I am. Thank you.

[1:01:19] Hello, Rachel Olsen, Typton Avenue. Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name is

[1:01:24] Rachel Olsen. I'm the secretary of the Victoria Motorcycle Club. I'm here in

[1:01:29] support of the club regarding our application for the permissive tax

[1:01:32] exemption. Thank you for the opportunity to appear. The Victoria Motorcycle Club

[1:01:37] has been in continuous operation since 1912, making us one of the oldest and

[1:01:42] largest motorcycle clubs in Canada. Our property is one of only two sanctioned

[1:01:48] off-road vehicle sites on the South Vancouver Island, providing safe,

[1:01:53] dedicated space for families to enjoy sport in our region. In the past year,

[1:01:58] as noted in our application, we've hosted the Machosen Fire Department, the

[1:02:02] search and rescue, and the Macho Machosen scouts, providing our

[1:02:06] facilities at no cost to support their training, and we support the fire

[1:02:11] department further through fundraising through our annual hill climb. We've

[1:02:16] also worked directly with the Mosen Fire Department on fireing our property work

[1:02:20] that was recently recognized in the Machosen Muse for its role in protecting

[1:02:24] our neighbors and the surrounding community. As stewards of this land, we

[1:02:29] take our responsibility to the surrounding environment seriously. We

[1:02:33] are currently developing a master plan that will guide the long-term

[1:02:36] sustainable and use of our trails. one that balances our members passion for

[1:02:41] the sport through thoughtful land management, habitat protection, and

[1:02:46] erosion control. Our goal is to ensure that our property continues to serve

[1:02:50] both our community and the natural environment around it for generations to

[1:02:55] come. I'm available to answer any questions if you have anything about our

[1:02:59] application. Thank you for your time. Thank you.

[1:03:11] I guess it's me. Wendy Mitchell, Woody Beach Road, uh, I want to commend this

[1:03:18] council for a change that you are reconsidering the PTE. It

[1:03:25] really is important. It It was just a crazy thing to try and change that. The

[1:03:31] these organizations are so important to our community. So, I'm

[1:03:40] really glad you're going to revisit that last decision you

[1:03:46] made, and I hope that you just revert to the original, which I

[1:03:53] think is option one there. It must be an election year because

[1:03:59] you've listened to us all. We've all come out many times and talked about

[1:04:06] this, so it's good. Thank you. I'm glad you're looking at it again. Hope you do

[1:04:11] the right thing this time. >> Thank you.

[1:04:20] Mr. Bennington, did you want to speak? There's there's uh a bit of time here. I

[1:04:26] don't know if you wanted to go to the microphone or not.

[1:04:39] I would just like to uh sorry it's Ed Bennington from Tain Road. Uh I would

[1:04:45] just like to uh point out that the uncertainty of going forward with annual

[1:04:51] sort of possibilities of changing stuff is make it very difficult for these

[1:04:56] organizations. Uh I am associated with St. St. Mary's

[1:05:00] Church which has for decades provided the funding to look after the heritage

[1:05:06] church uh as one of their uh benefits to the community among the many other

[1:05:13] things which have been pointed out uh by previous speakers. So uncertainty going

[1:05:18] forward is very troublesome and uh our survival as a church within this

[1:05:23] community is at risk depending on the decisions that you make.

[1:05:27] » Thank you.

[1:05:36] Okay. See, you know what?

[1:05:40] Good evening. Kiara Kakawa, Perry Crossroad, uh, speaking in support of

[1:05:44] the permissive tax exemptions. As someone who sat at the table for a

[1:05:49] number of years and provided those tax exemptions to most of the organizations

[1:05:52] that are on this list, they do require stable funding. They do require the

[1:05:57] ability to know in advance what that funding will look like so that they can

[1:06:00] look at what their programs are, what capital projects that they might need to

[1:06:04] consider for this year or the next year or as they're as they're doing their own

[1:06:08] financial planning. The volunteer organizations and not for-profit

[1:06:11] organizations within Machosen, most of whom are asking for these permissive tax

[1:06:15] exemptions, are ones that provide the fabric of this community and what it all

[1:06:20] is that we hold dear as Machosen without the contributions that they do that may

[1:06:25] or may not be monetary in value allows us to be proud Chosenites and to

[1:06:31] continue having the environment that we live in which is rural in nature but

[1:06:35] also allows us to function. The other item that I would like to

[1:06:39] speak to is in regards to um Stacy Charles's uh Cho First Nation canoe

[1:06:44] family partnership request. Honestly, my suggestion would be if you've got some

[1:06:48] money left over in your grants and aids or in your um council discretionary fund

[1:06:52] that you would consider providing them with a donation. Uh it is one of those

[1:06:56] things where they they actually do quite a bit of of good work and this is great

[1:06:59] for their community. I've had an opportunity in the past to sponsor this

[1:07:04] uh personally through my business and um they they come asking um with the best

[1:07:11] intentions at at heart in order to provide their youth in particular the

[1:07:15] opportunity to participate in the tribal journeys. Thank you. Thank you.

[1:07:30] Good evening. It's Ellen Fresh Perry Crossroad. Uh speak about three things

[1:07:36] this evening. First off, the per permissive tax exemption bylaw. I think

[1:07:41] if we take a step back to the principle of what we're trying to do here, which

[1:07:45] is provide certainty all the way around, including to the district, we've got

[1:07:50] four examples of requests for money on this agenda in addition to the request

[1:07:56] for exemptions. And every meeting I've been at where we've talked about these

[1:08:00] things, it comes down to how much money uh is is in our budget or conversely not

[1:08:07] in our budget and having to make decisions at every meeting as to who's

[1:08:11] going to get funded, whose proposal is worthy or not. And somewhere there needs

[1:08:16] to be a balance in there that provides certainty to the taxpayers of Machosen

[1:08:21] about where that bucket of money is coming out of which might be tapped from

[1:08:27] a combination of permissive tax exemption and then other opportunities

[1:08:31] for the grants that were just spoken about. So I advocate a a principled

[1:08:37] approach on that. Number three, wholeheartedly support the reasonzoning

[1:08:42] of um of the property for the SPCA. Um I have followed that one and I just wanted

[1:08:49] to note on a technical matter on the recommendation in it. It refers to staff

[1:08:55] seeking information from the applicant's qualified environmental prep

[1:09:00] professional. The relationship there to request that information is not with

[1:09:05] it's not between municipal staff and the QEP. It rests

[1:09:10] with the applicant. So the applicant presumably is going to be responsible

[1:09:14] for the billable hours and time that QEP has to put in answering the questions

[1:09:20] that the district requests of them. So I'd look at how that request is

[1:09:25] structured. Um, and then lastly, just in terms of the fireh hall update, um, I

[1:09:32] just wanted to make those aware because I I wasn't aware until I was doing my

[1:09:37] own research, um, that the Agricultural Land Commission approved the non-farm

[1:09:43] use application for the future fireh hall uh, site, presuming it's it would

[1:09:50] be here on the lands. great letter, 10 pages long, released May 12th, gives a

[1:09:57] great summary of all the past applications

[1:10:00] for uh removal of the ALR and then reversal and then all the many non-farm

[1:10:05] use applications and the OCP amendments that were put in and uh continuous

[1:10:11] reaffirmation that the property is meant to be used for uh public community

[1:10:17] development. So, it's it's a good read and it's a publicly available letter and

[1:10:22] uh I've got a copy of it here that I'll be sharing if those of you who are

[1:10:26] interested. Thanks so much. Thank you.

[1:10:34] Okay.

[1:10:37] Seeing no other uh comments, we'll conclude uh public participation and

[1:10:42] move along in our agenda. Next, uh, council, we've

[1:10:49] sorry, we've got the adoption of the minutes. This is for the June 22nd, 2026

[1:10:57] regular council meeting. >> Move adoption.

[1:10:59] » Moved by council Schukan, seconded by council Donaldson. All in favor?

[1:11:04] Opposed? Not opposed. If you're opposed, uh,

[1:11:08] councelor Gray, just, uh, scream out. Okay. Otherwise, I will take it as in uh

[1:11:14] voting in the affirmative. >> Uh we've got the receipt of minutes.

[1:11:18] We've got we'll take these individually. We've got the receipt of the June 16th

[1:11:23] draft parks and trails advisory select committee meeting.

[1:11:28] Moved by council, seconded by council Donaldson. All in favor? Opposed?

[1:11:33] Carried. Thank you. We've got the >> May I ask a question? I had a question

[1:11:39] to ask. I'm wondering if the parks and trails

[1:11:43] draft master plan will come forward for council.

[1:11:49] » I'm I'm going to ask councelor Schukan to answer this. Uh could you answer the

[1:11:53] question? >> Um

[1:11:56] yes. And what is interesting about um the master plan? Two things. Um there is

[1:12:04] the potential of a s significant revision because we're no longer ideally

[1:12:08] after tonight talking about the buffer land as a as a potential park as a park.

[1:12:14] So there'll be some revisions around that. Um we are also working on um some

[1:12:20] mapping as well and that that is underway. Uh, I have received comments

[1:12:26] from council don council gray for me ask from members of the community and we're

[1:12:30] also factoring those into a new new draft and I'm hoping to circulate that

[1:12:34] before too long. So, >> okay. Thank you.

[1:12:39] » Okay. Uh, that uh motion was passed. We'll move along to June 23rd Mosen

[1:12:45] Environment Select Committee. Um, one of you at the table go ahead

[1:12:51] move adoption. Move moved by councelor Schukan,

[1:12:55] seconded by council Donaldson. Comments. >> Yes, I it's Steve here. I just wanted to

[1:13:03] um mention an important um event happened at our last meeting and that is

[1:13:08] that Bill Cave um gave notice that he would um be stepping down from MASK.

[1:13:14] Bill's been a longtime member and um a Machosen Friends of the Earth award

[1:13:18] winner. We really appreciated Bill's input over these years and we'll be sure

[1:13:22] to recognize him further. Thank you. >> Thank you. I see nodding heads at the

[1:13:27] table. Uh we we welcome his wise guidance here. Thank you. Okay, I'll

[1:13:33] call the question then on the adoption of the MROS environmental advisory

[1:13:38] select committee meeting of June 23rd. Call the question. All in favor? Seeing

[1:13:43] no one oppose that move. That is carried. Uh we Yep. I I think we may

[1:13:47] have missed the uh special planning committee

[1:13:50] » or jumped ahead. >> I'll I'll go back. Thank you for that.

[1:13:54] » Um for adoption the June 23rd special community planning committee minutes. Go

[1:14:00] ahead council. >> Proceed.

[1:14:02] » Moved by councelor Donaldson. Second by council Donaldson.

[1:14:08] All in favor? Opposed? Hearing none opposed. Move along to the June 25th

[1:14:14] Health and Community Advisory Select Committee meeting minutes.

[1:14:21] » Move for receipt. >> This is moved by council Schukan,

[1:14:24] seconded by uh councelor. Oh yeah, it is received. Uh council Donaldson. All in

[1:14:30] favor? No. In oppose? That carries. Okay,

[1:14:37] moving along to the mayor's update. I'll be as brief as possible.

[1:14:42] as soon as I get this up on my screen.

[1:14:48] Okay. Um so, uh once a month, uh at a council meeting, I give a written report

[1:14:54] regarding, uh my activities regionally and within the district. Uh this time it

[1:15:00] was just there was there's been a lot going on. I did it in point form and got

[1:15:05] I gave you um links to all the different media reports um um as well as uh

[1:15:13] different um communicates for instance by Ro University. So I'll I'll just name

[1:15:20] them. Um celebration of life for Lillian Mariebach who died um in office. Uh she

[1:15:28] died in in May May 2nd of this year. There was a celebration of life uh held

[1:15:34] at Royal Rose University on June 13th. I was asked by the family of Lillian to

[1:15:40] give uh tribute to her as well as um the celebration of life was hosted by the

[1:15:47] city of Langford. Uh the uh female counselors uh were the

[1:15:54] MC's for the event. Mary Wagner, Colby Harter, and Kimberly Gyrie. Uh the

[1:16:02] uh Ted Robbins, the CEO of the CRD, also gave a tribute as well as um Lillian's

[1:16:09] daughter-in-law, Tanya Sunshine. Uh Roy Roads has set up

[1:16:15] an entrance award and an endowment in Lillian's honor has been established. Um

[1:16:21] the CRD will honor Lillian's name on an annual basis. Um that was also reported

[1:16:27] in the news. Um, every year I've been delighted to attend the Kimosen College

[1:16:33] spring comication. This year was uh dece or sorry June 17th. Uh, this was the

[1:16:39] fourth year in a row. It was really an extraordinary event. I I I wish all of

[1:16:44] council could have been there. Uh there were drummers, celebration, territorial

[1:16:49] acknowledgements. Uh Sap Scott, a respected knowledge keeper, um cultural

[1:16:54] facilitator, ceremonial dry uh drummer from the Sartup First Nation was there.

[1:17:00] He is the son of Elder May as many of you know her, very revered and has deep

[1:17:07] family ties to the First Nations. Um the governor general's collegiate prawns

[1:17:12] medal was awarded to Gayang Yu. Uh this was event was hosted by Dr. Wayne Troder

[1:17:18] the president of Kimosin College. Uh there is a change of command. Um

[1:17:24] there was a change of command at CFBS Wyalt. I attended the ceremony in May.

[1:17:29] The ceremony was to mark the change of command between Samuel Patchel CD to

[1:17:35] Blair Brown OM MSC CD. Um this was at the invitation of Kevin Whiteside, our

[1:17:43] bear base commander. Um there was uh of course uh welcoming and blessings from

[1:17:49] Chief Jerome Thomas of Squyold uh First Nations that was also covered in the

[1:17:54] news. I did had a lengthy conversation with Chief Chief Jerome Thomas who I've

[1:17:59] met previously uh as a part of as vice chair of the CRD when we've gone out.

[1:18:05] You okay? Yeah. Okay. Do you have a cough drop? Okay. Good. Um and um

[1:18:13] anyways, that was a wonderful uh event. Uh we did have an open house as a part

[1:18:18] of the Victoria Family Court and Youth Justice Committee. This is a deal

[1:18:22] delegated CRD commission. I'm chair of that committee. Um, as you've known, uh,

[1:18:28] last month I, um, shephered in our annual 2020 2025, uh, report. This was,

[1:18:36] um, our open house to welcome back all those service providers that provide

[1:18:42] valuable service for youth and families in our region. It was a it was a wild

[1:18:46] success. Um, so on that note, [clears throat] I forgot to mention that

[1:18:51] I have gone to Langford Council and to View Royal Council to also shepherd in

[1:18:56] that report of the Victoria Family Court and Youth Justice as is my

[1:19:01] responsibilities of of uh as chair of that delegated CRD Commission. Um, I

[1:19:08] also attended the uh cadetses at the CSSC

[1:19:13] SECC Beacon Hill, the 47th annual ceremonial review. It was marvelous

[1:19:18] event um particularly because it was attended by the cadetses themselves and

[1:19:23] their family. It was so celebratory. I was joined by regional partners uh Doug

[1:19:30] Kobayashi uh uh the mayor of Cowwood, the mayor of

[1:19:35] Langford uh Scott Goodmanson as well as MP uh Jeff Gibble Kibble from um where

[1:19:42] is he the MP in Shanigan Lake area to the Malahhat. Um it was a wonderful

[1:19:48] event seeing all of these young women and men graduating from the cadet

[1:19:52] program with uh valuable tangible skills.

[1:19:56] Um, I also attended, as some of you did, the Parisian Cafe put on by our

[1:20:01] marvelous Mosen Seniors Association. This was on June 6th. It seems to almost

[1:20:08] always rain on that event, but they were prepared. Uh, we had music and treats.

[1:20:13] Um, the uh food was uh donated by Petisserie Danielle, so Danielle Voki,

[1:20:20] so we thank him for that. There was great conversations

[1:20:23] um as well as many seniors and dogs and our MLA Dana Leinesess was able to join

[1:20:30] us for that briefly. I'm very proud to uh recognize that we did raise the pride

[1:20:37] flag here in the district on June 25th and thank you to all of council for

[1:20:41] joining me here. This marks the fourth consecutive year at the district had

[1:20:46] chosen that we've raised the pride flag. Um, our staff was there, members of the

[1:20:51] fire department, our MP, uh, Stephanie Mlan helped raise the flag. Um, she made

[1:20:57] a special trip from Vancouver to attend our pride, um, flag ceremony. Uh we had

[1:21:04] cake and co conversations uh members of the William Head Institution, Pearson

[1:21:09] College, West Shore RCMP, our own fire department, the chosen search and

[1:21:15] rescue, the art pod volunteers, some of them, and community volunteers uh were

[1:21:20] here. We had an amazing turnout. So, thank you for joining us. I did march in

[1:21:25] the Pride Parade yesterday. Um I actually I wasn't marching. I was

[1:21:29] sitting in the central Sanage uh firet truck, the big rig that they have there

[1:21:34] with Mayor uh Maya Tate from Souk. Uh we were invited to uh ride in the

[1:21:41] firetruck. So that was something new. I didn't have to march and it was a

[1:21:45] wonderful positive event. Uh we had the Canada Day Festivist

[1:21:50] celebration right here in the district. Uh we're very fortunate to have the

[1:21:55] Mosen Arts and Cultural Center Association, MKA, that put on this this

[1:22:00] valuable and um quite um extensive celebration festivist um celebration to

[1:22:08] honor Canada Day. It started with a horse parade. Uh Stella French um and

[1:22:14] Anna Whitten uh started off the day. We had music, food, portraits, a blacksmith

[1:22:19] demonstration. It was a wonderful Canada Day celebrations and thanks to council

[1:22:24] for joining us there as well as the art pod maka um which and at the what I'm

[1:22:32] now calling the machosen arts and recreation uh center or collective

[1:22:38] center collaboration is called alchemy of creating. I invite everybody to go to

[1:22:44] that gallery. It is absolutely phenomenal right now the exhibition that

[1:22:49] they have. Um as well the as you know the Westshore

[1:22:54] mayors have been meeting um every month for the past four years just to increase

[1:23:00] the communications uh that uh wasn't there in the past. uh

[1:23:05] we had all recognized that given our shared resources, given everybody is in

[1:23:11] tight tight financial situations, all of the Westshore municipalities are feeling

[1:23:16] it. We felt that it was important that we meet monthly and it was so important

[1:23:21] in the beginning in early um or in late 2022 and early 2023. And I initiated

[1:23:28] these meetings because I knew we had to have good communications because at some

[1:23:33] point we were going to have disagreements and it's easier to have

[1:23:37] disagreements with people that you know and people that you trust. So, we've

[1:23:41] been meeting um monthly and uh July 3 was our final meeting of the four years

[1:23:48] and I thank my regional partners Scott Goodmanson, the city of Langford, Doug

[1:23:53] Kobayashi, city of uh city of Cowwood, uh Sid Tobias uh from the township of

[1:24:01] Uroy, Maya Tate from the district of Souk, uh Waterf Director Al Wickham, who

[1:24:09] am I missing? Oh, and Ken Williams uh from the district of of um Highlands.

[1:24:16] This was so successful that we also had Mayor Barb Dejarden from Esquyimal

[1:24:21] wanting to join our group and so she joined as well. So, it was great

[1:24:26] communications and um great to get uh input from other mayors um at being a

[1:24:33] new mayor at the time. Uh, additionally, I attended the Strong Cities Network.

[1:24:38] This was hosted by Laura Peron of the city of Victoria. All of council

[1:24:43] received that invitation. Um, and this was an opportunity for mayors and

[1:24:47] councils within the CRD region and other civic leaders to explore all tools and

[1:24:53] resources to respond to hate, extremism, and polarization. Maryanne Alto, the

[1:25:00] mayor of the city of Victoria, um, presented her community safety plan. I

[1:25:05] think everybody got a copy of that. If not, I can get you a copy. Um, it's uh

[1:25:10] located or the link to this particular um network uh conversation and workshop

[1:25:17] was was there, but there is uh that report and and I can get that for you.

[1:25:23] Additionally, um some important things. So, we got uh

[1:25:27] tea with the mayor. So, we've been meeting uh once a month. Um, I've

[1:25:33] invited uh the community to come in and have tea and coffee and cookies to uh

[1:25:39] talk about anything that is of mind uh for the citizens and that has been very

[1:25:44] successful. The next one is tomorrow and the deputy mayor and myself will be

[1:25:50] attending. I believe that is uh is that you?

[1:25:54] » Yeah. And I know that you might have to leave uh quite a bit early because you

[1:25:58] you've got other commitments. Uh but um if you can be there for 15 minutes,

[1:26:03] that'd be great. Okay. And then as well uh we've got uh this Thursday there's

[1:26:10] going to be music in the park in our pavilion here. The band that will be

[1:26:16] playing is again Helen Davies and the High Definition Chicks. Uh they've um

[1:26:23] they've uh played here before. It was wildly successful for the last three

[1:26:29] years and I'm looking forward to that. It starts at 6 PM in the pavilion. Um

[1:26:35] they will be setting up at uh 5 to 6. We'll have some Taylor Swift playing and

[1:26:40] please bring your blankets and your family and a picnic.

[1:26:44] Um and there's some other things that I missed on this update, but I'll uh

[1:26:50] include in my September update. So that concludes my mayor's update.

[1:26:58] Mayor Little, it's councelor Ray.

[1:27:02] » Yes.

[1:27:05] » Thank you for your um article. Also, just to mention the article in the news

[1:27:09] about the police department, the RCMP building and the work being done on

[1:27:13] that. Will we consider a report for that in at our September meeting?

[1:27:20] » I didn't I didn't hear. Sorry. I when you speak my my um hearing aids sort of

[1:27:25] go off with a echo. Can you repeat that? >> Yes. I said I wanted to add another item

[1:27:33] and to thank you for the article you wrote in the news about the RCMP

[1:27:38] building and the concerns that we have. And I wondered would we receive a report

[1:27:43] on that in September? >> You won't receive a report from me but

[1:27:47] you might from staff. So, that's the second letter that I've written or um

[1:27:52] article that I've written for Mosen News regarding the RCMP

[1:27:57] uh the Westshore RCMP rebuild. Um we are renters in that building and I thought

[1:28:02] it was important for the community to hear the facts and get the links to the

[1:28:07] V Royal and the city of Langford websites where all of the information is

[1:28:12] there. Perhaps uh CEO Payet, would you like to comment on a report?

[1:28:16] » Yeah, sure. Through the chair. Um, thanks for that question. Out there

[1:28:21] where wherever you are, the um we're we're working with the Langford staff to

[1:28:26] get some information on the on the um rental

[1:28:32] issue and once we get that information, we can put together a report quickly. Um

[1:28:37] I'm I'm sure we'll have it in September. Um but I'm we're waiting for information

[1:28:43] um from Langford. So >> Okay.

[1:28:46] » Okay. So with

[1:28:48] » thank you. >> Okay. Uh with that um Thomas maybe you

[1:28:55] can turn down the volume uh a little bit. Thank you.

[1:29:00] Okay. We've got business arising. This is 7A in your council agenda.

[1:29:06] Everybody's got that. This is the June 23rd special community planning meeting

[1:29:11] zoning amendment application for 3280 Woodruff Road. Councelor Schukan.

[1:29:18] » Thank you, Mayor Little. Um, we had extensive discussion on June 23rd and

[1:29:25] there was, you know, significant public interest, I would say, in this

[1:29:28] application and I recognize the people that uh wrote in at that time. Also want

[1:29:33] to recognize Miss Pollock who um also has written in and spoken to us tonight.

[1:29:37] Um, one thing we again, we talked about this on the 23rd. We're at a preliminary

[1:29:44] stage with this zoning amendment application. And so what the motion that

[1:29:48] we passed at the committee level does is it gives clear direction to a planner in

[1:29:53] how to work with the humane society and the professionals all directed toward

[1:30:00] what I believe is going to be a very strong conservation outcome

[1:30:04] and or at least build the pillars so we can move on that on that road. So, and

[1:30:11] so with that, I would like to move that council direct staff to proceed with

[1:30:16] referrals for this zoning amendment application and that council direct

[1:30:20] staff to seek additional information from the applicant's qualified

[1:30:24] environmental professional regarding wildlife movement, habitat connectivity,

[1:30:29] fencing, trails, and the potential effects of the proposed animal shelter

[1:30:33] use, including associated site activities, structures, and future site

[1:30:38] improvements on environmentally sensitive areas of the property,

[1:30:43] including any recommended mitigation measures. And that council directs staff

[1:30:47] in consultation with the applicant and legal council to explore potential

[1:30:52] options to address environmental considerations associated with the

[1:30:55] undisturbed southerntherly portion of the property, including the potential

[1:30:59] use of section 219 restrictive covenant, and that staff report back to council

[1:31:05] with a draft zoning amendment bylaw for consideration. So moved.

[1:31:10] » Okay. This is moved by councelor Schugan.

[1:31:12] » Seconded. >> Seconded by council Donaldson. Do you

[1:31:15] want to motivate further council? Then I'll move to council Donaldson, then to

[1:31:20] councelor Gray, and then I'll conclude with my comments.

[1:31:25] » Very simply, yeah. This allows our planner um to advance the process and

[1:31:30] return to council with a substantive package to consider again with these

[1:31:33] environmental pillars in place. I I with respect to Miss Frri um she's probably

[1:31:39] right about the um relationship between the applicant and the proponent sorry

[1:31:45] the staff and the proponent but there is a relationship that our planner has with

[1:31:49] the QEP as well. So I think the motion is is solid enough in that respect. Um

[1:31:55] again it does give the green light for staff to discuss conservation covenants

[1:31:59] and other options with the Humane Society. Um, and I I think it is the

[1:32:05] right thing to do. If you're looking for a strong conservation outcome, this this

[1:32:08] is the path to take.

[1:32:13] » I'm sorry, Council Donaldson. >> Thank you. Um yeah, I had a lot of

[1:32:20] questions uh regarding this application initially and I think that the second

[1:32:24] paragraph here the and that council direct staff regarding the QEP and it

[1:32:30] does list a lot of different things here. This is 38 over 38 acres and one

[1:32:35] of the things they report out on is having up to 100 dogs and 100 cats and

[1:32:39] you know that's a concern. Um, so I look I'm looking forward to a

[1:32:44] much more conclusive um, report as to what it ex exactly is is going to happen

[1:32:52] with this property, whether that's uh, 50 to 100 dogs or whatever uh, closer to

[1:32:58] the buildings or is it going to be the whole property, that sort of thing. Uh,

[1:33:01] one of the things that keeps coming up at the community throughout the

[1:33:05] community is the um the fact that the uh the owners of this property

[1:33:13] uh were very resistant to put a covenant on when they were asked about when they

[1:33:18] were inquiring about a permissive tax exemption. This here now is asking again

[1:33:26] but only a little bit different. This is a 219 restrictive covenant for the whole

[1:33:30] property. So I am looking forward to what the outcome is, what uh work our

[1:33:35] planner can um put together, working with the proponent and uh giving a much

[1:33:42] more conclusive uh report on this with the end goal being a restrictive

[1:33:48] covenant. [snorts] Thank you.

[1:33:52] » Okay, councelor Gray. >> Yes. When I read the the motion again um

[1:33:59] and consider our discussion earlier at the planning committee

[1:34:03] in some we're asking the staff to negotiate a section 219 covenant with

[1:34:07] the u proponent and we have a letter in other words in

[1:34:13] writing the Victoria Humane Society said they

[1:34:16] will not consider section 219 covenant or other measures to protect the natural

[1:34:21] world there. As a result I cannot support this motion. I think that it is

[1:34:25] futile to have that discussion at the moment. I would be prepared to um accept

[1:34:32] a motion that asked staff to speak with the Humane Society

[1:34:37] to get a better report on the environment. In other words, the second

[1:34:40] paragraph of the motion. But I see no point in us expending valuable staff

[1:34:45] time and legal um co legal costs when the developers already said they're not

[1:34:52] interested.

[1:34:56] Okay, thank you. Um I will I will be supporting this application. Um if you

[1:35:04] look to the video of what was said at that meeting, um certainly uh the uh

[1:35:11] person in charge, Miss Stone, Miss Penny Stone was very open uh to not only

[1:35:17] having Bill Creek Watershed Protection Society come on the land. I introduced

[1:35:23] her at the end of the meeting with uh to Allison Leuke uh who is spearheading the

[1:35:29] Bilston uh watershed protection um society at the moment um the group and

[1:35:37] um she was very receptive to that. I really wanted to see that connection um

[1:35:44] as well. um she was uh a little bit more amendable to discussing covenants. Um

[1:35:52] and I also want to beg the question with every application, are we now going to

[1:35:59] ask for a special covenant or is it just for this group? because if another

[1:36:05] person, another entity, another developer decided to buy this property,

[1:36:11] they could um do whatever they want according to the zoning. And let's not

[1:36:18] forget that the provincial government has brought down a number of different

[1:36:23] bills and um a number of different bills. uh bill 16 uh the transportation

[1:36:31] amendment act. Bill 43 the housing supply act we've talked about all this

[1:36:36] bill 44 the housing statutes act um in which enables smallcale multi-unit

[1:36:43] housing uh bill 46 development financing as well as bill 47 the transit oriented

[1:36:52] areas. So if a um another entity was to purchase this property, they would be

[1:36:59] able to develop it according to the zoning. And certainly we know from the

[1:37:03] province that they're interested in housing, they're interested in in

[1:37:08] growth. Um and that's why I stated all these different uh bills. Um so with

[1:37:14] this property owner, um you've heard from Peggy Jerves's daughter who came

[1:37:20] who wrote us a letter. It's included in the package as well. She spoke very

[1:37:25] passionately at this meeting about the intent of her mother, the the initial

[1:37:31] intent of her mother's wishes. Um she also spoke that both her brother and

[1:37:38] her herself who inherited the property from Miss Jervis, they were very happy

[1:37:43] with who they chose to sell the property to and they think that that they are

[1:37:50] good stewards of the land. I think that speaks volumes. Um she also mentioned

[1:37:56] that she's welcomed on the property at any time. They have the Victoria Humane

[1:38:01] Society has allowed uh Miss Pollockch and her brother to go on the property

[1:38:06] and place a plaque in memory of their mother Peggy Jervis as well. Miss

[1:38:12] Pollock spoke at the meeting tonight and said that if there were environmental

[1:38:17] concerns, she would be the first to speak out and she has no concerns. And a

[1:38:23] lot of what we speak at at the table here is trust. I have trust in Miss

[1:38:28] Pollock. I have trust in the Victoria Humane Society to do the right thing. I

[1:38:33] know that another developer, another sorry, another entity such as a

[1:38:38] developer could take that site and do things to it um um and develop according

[1:38:44] to their zoning. We know that other people in the area do have property and

[1:38:50] are are doing things that are outside their authority of zoning such as light

[1:38:55] industrial activities when they're not supposed to be doing that. Um I'm very

[1:39:01] confident in what the Victoria Humane Society is doing there. It it it puzzles

[1:39:07] me why we are holding the Victoria Humane Society to a higher account than

[1:39:12] we have other properties. and are we going to ask for a covenant on every

[1:39:17] property? I don't think that's fair. I will be speaking um further in favor of

[1:39:23] this, but at this moment I'll keep an open mind, but I will vote in favor.

[1:39:29] Does anybody else have additional comments?

[1:39:33] » Yes, I'd like to speak again. >> Yep. We've got Councelor Gray followed

[1:39:37] by Councelor Donaldson and perhaps councelor Shukin would like to weigh in

[1:39:41] for a second time as well. Go ahead, councelor Gray.

[1:39:47] » I'm I guess I might say that we're already aware that the owners of

[1:39:53] the property did not follow the riparian regulations.

[1:39:56] So when you say you have full confidence, I I'm sitting in the other

[1:40:01] camp because we've already seen actions on the property that were detrimental to

[1:40:05] the environmental regulatory framework. I think councelor Schu has emphasized

[1:40:10] we're early in the process and I'm simply saying rather than us spending

[1:40:13] our money and time on this, let the proponents take their time and consider

[1:40:18] whether or not they want to come forward um and um protect some of the property.

[1:40:26] when you speak and say that you don't think the covenant's um appropriate,

[1:40:31] well, that would mean voting against the motion because in this instance, Mayor

[1:40:35] Little, what the motion is is to work towards getting section 219 covenant.

[1:40:41] We're not talking about other properties. We're talking about this

[1:40:44] property. And we're doing that because the planner has recommended it to

[1:40:48] council and and we passed it a planning committee. So, you supported a covenant

[1:40:52] then. Are you not supporting a covenant at this point?

[1:40:57] Is that a question to me or to staff? >> A question to Mayor Little.

[1:41:03] » Yeah, that's me. Um, so the the covenant I'm I'm what I'm saying is we need to

[1:41:09] follow due process. We need to follow due process and and what is outlined by

[1:41:15] our very experienced planner. That's what that's what I'm um suggesting. I'm

[1:41:22] I'm questioning the wisdom of having to have uh covenants on all different

[1:41:29] properties. I'm just wondering why this it's I think it's a valid question. Why

[1:41:35] is this particular property being subject to to a section 219

[1:41:40] restrictive covenant when other properties haven't been? I'm just

[1:41:44] begging that question. Um the planner has suggested it with you at that

[1:41:49] meeting. You will you will been have been able to hear that Penny Stone is

[1:41:54] more open to that and she said she will consider that. I trust her on her work

[1:42:00] regarding the um uh what did you term um problems with the uh riparian um she

[1:42:11] mentioned that she didn't realize what what that she was breaking the rules

[1:42:17] once once they were made aware that they were doing something that they shouldn't

[1:42:22] do. they stopped and they've they've got valid um environmental professionals um

[1:42:29] giving advice on this with that. I have trust in them. I'm sorry that you don't,

[1:42:34] but I I do have trust. Uh councelor Schukan. Oh, sorry. I'm

[1:42:40] sorry, Council Donaldson. >> Thank you. Um, one of the outstanding

[1:42:45] concerns that I have, not just of the use of property, but this is an upland

[1:42:49] zone >> and heavily treed, um, this is in the

[1:42:54] Sucro corridor, um, adjacent to the buffer land section 25 and Neil Road.

[1:43:01] And um being in the uplands, the one thing that I've learned from the last

[1:43:06] report um in seeing some photographs was how much of the headwaters are um in the

[1:43:13] uplands. And so protecting that is is quite valuable when we think about the

[1:43:19] headarters of the Bilston goes all the way through our community. Um there are

[1:43:24] a couple of farms that do have licenses on that on the water from that. Um and

[1:43:30] so you know keeping the water pure and and clean and flowing. Um this is also

[1:43:37] uh the value of having a restrictive covenant in that area. Um and there are

[1:43:42] several properties that would have um subsidiary uh waters that go into the

[1:43:48] Bilson. So the wershed is uh a valuable asset to our community and runs straight

[1:43:53] through it. So again protecting that is is superior in my opinion.

[1:43:59] Yeah, absolutely. Councelor Schuken. >> Yeah.

[1:44:03] um in terms of the humane society's um you know actions around their fencing

[1:44:10] and the stream crossings uh just to pull a quote from the planners or the sorry

[1:44:14] the report from the QEP says the QEP reports that required remediation of

[1:44:18] previous unremitted unpermitted stream crossings has now been completed in

[1:44:23] accordance with the water sustainability act and no further remediation of stream

[1:44:27] crossings is required. So, um I I thought Council Gray's comments at the

[1:44:34] other day were were actually really aggressive in terms of terming things

[1:44:39] illegal. Um uh and and I'm glad the the planner or Miss Johnson didn't take the

[1:44:45] bait and u threw it back to the report itself. Um, the one thing I would just

[1:44:50] say though is if anybody at this table wants to be that pointed and point out

[1:44:57] um, unauthorized uses on sites that come before us for reasonzoning, say, that

[1:45:03] they're consistent and that they they take a look at maybe unauthorized uses

[1:45:08] that might be in place on some of those other things. So, I hope that is a

[1:45:11] precedent that that might be set especially for certain individuals at

[1:45:15] this table. And again, I ask folks to look around if they want to have a an

[1:45:21] understanding of the impacts going on in that area. Look around, look broadly at

[1:45:26] some of the neighbors to this particular property.

[1:45:29] » So, I'll leave it at that. But the one thing I I take your point, Mayor Little,

[1:45:33] why the Humane Society is being target like I I don't know the emphasis on a

[1:45:40] covenant for this particular um property owner. Um, we have a number of um,

[1:45:46] permissive tax exemption, sorry, organizations looking for permissive tax

[1:45:50] exemptions coming up in the next discussion. I'm going to support I'll

[1:45:53] tip my hat right now. I'm going to support the status quo. But I do want to

[1:45:57] point out a few things. The Victoria Motorcycle Club, there's no covenant on

[1:46:01] that property as I understand it. Um, um, the Chosen Hall Society, I'm betting

[1:46:06] there isn't a protective covenant there. Uh, the YMCA, there is no protective

[1:46:10] covenant there. the Boys and Girls Club, there is no protective covenant with

[1:46:14] that organization. Um BC Parks Foundation on Hummingbird Hill, as I

[1:46:19] understand it, there was no protective covenant there either. So I I'm a little

[1:46:23] confused as to why the Humane Society is being singled out, but again, they've

[1:46:28] indicated I saw them there um indicated a willingness to enter some discussions.

[1:46:33] So yeah, I'll leave it at that. >> Yeah, good point. I think it's uh

[1:46:37] council Donaldson has point out in the past about we should treat everybody

[1:46:41] fairly and evenly and perhaps if this is the route we're going to go down um

[1:46:47] perhaps with the Victorian Motorcycle Club, with the um Hall Society, Boys and

[1:46:53] Girls Club, all of them, maybe they should all have protective covenants on

[1:46:57] their properties. Um that's probably not practical and it might be expensive. Uh

[1:47:04] but I think that needs to be considered if we hold one group and one property uh

[1:47:10] to this. Um, and I take your point, council, and look around and um that

[1:47:15] area um and uh see uh what is happening on some of the properties in in the area

[1:47:24] um in terms of u not abiding by provincial legislations um cutting trees

[1:47:30] that they shouldn't have uh destroying the canopy. Um so I I take your point

[1:47:36] and thank you for that. Okay, I'm gonna call the question. Oh,

[1:47:41] go ahead. >> Yeah, for for a third time. Go ahead.

[1:47:44] » I just >> Yeah. Um, well, I think some said that

[1:47:49] it it's worth um just covering a few points. One point is that the reason why

[1:47:55] the planner is suggesting a covenant here, it's quite well detailed in her

[1:48:00] report to us is to uphold our official community plan.

[1:48:04] We're we're being asked for an amendment to zoning and that has led us and led

[1:48:10] the planner to say now when that happens now's your time to step in and follow

[1:48:15] the plan. It's a sensitive ecosystem. Make a move to protect it. So that's the

[1:48:19] rationale. I'm sorry that people have missed it. On the second the second

[1:48:23] point in relation to permissive tax exemptions, you will all recall that

[1:48:27] last summer we passed a brand new policy such that we would uh on the advice of

[1:48:33] me ask seek uh covenants on properties that have significant forest canopy in

[1:48:40] time. We would have be we would have been doing that this year except that

[1:48:45] council abolished the permissive tax exemptions for 2026. So it's already on

[1:48:50] the books that we are going to pursue that policy not to force people but to

[1:48:54] enter a discussion with them. But all those other organizations that were

[1:48:58] named none of them are seeking amendments to their zoning. So that's

[1:49:02] why this is special. It's not targeting them. It's in response to an application

[1:49:06] for a zoning amendment and it's a simple responsibility of the local government

[1:49:10] to follow its OCP and take that opportunity to move us forward. Thank

[1:49:15] you. >> Thank you. Since I've given you the

[1:49:17] third opportunity, I'll also give everybody else the the third opportunity

[1:49:21] to speak. Does anybody else at the table wish to speak

[1:49:26] um provide more commentary? Go ahead, Councelor Donaldson.

[1:49:30] » I just want to uh uh clarify uh and hopefully everybody in the room

[1:49:35] has followed this. Um we're talking about a zoning amendment, not a PTE.

[1:49:41] that was PTE was a previous discussion that is not to be mixed up with this.

[1:49:48] » I think that's that's very important. Um here um we'll discuss the permissive tax

[1:49:54] exemptions later this evening. We're discussing this uh zoning application.

[1:50:00] Now, uh um what I want to point out is uh even prior uh to this zoning

[1:50:08] amendment application when we were discussing the permissive tax exemptions

[1:50:14] and it goes back to 2023, September 11th, 2023.

[1:50:20] And uh when Penny Stone came to council to talk about permissive tax exemptions,

[1:50:26] it was at that time that Penny Stone was approached by members of our community

[1:50:32] asking for uh a covenant. And at that time she was asked to give up part of

[1:50:39] her property in exchange for um I don't know I I don't know what in exchange

[1:50:46] for. Um that was not council. It was not the mayor. it was not our staff and and

[1:50:52] I think um I don't think I know that that set the tone of the relationship

[1:50:59] between the district of Machosen and uh Penny Stone rightly or wrongly. Uh I

[1:51:05] think uh that and she acknowledged this when she spoke. She got her backup a

[1:51:10] little bit. And I would too if I had just bought a property and I had

[1:51:15] outsiders coming in and telling me that I needed to put a restrictive covenant

[1:51:19] on my property and that I needed to give up part of the property that I was I had

[1:51:26] just purchased from donor um contributions. And and so what I spoke

[1:51:31] about quite passionately the last meeting was I want to see a reset in the

[1:51:37] communications between the district between the residents and this property.

[1:51:42] I think they are valued members of our community. I welcome them here. There

[1:51:47] could be far worse you activities on that property.

[1:51:53] I will vote in favor of this motion.

[1:51:57] Okay. I'm going to call the question on what has been um put forward. Uh the

[1:52:03] motion is there uh on screen and it is in your business arising 7A.

[1:52:12] I'll call the question. All in favor? Those opposed?

[1:52:18] » Opposed? >> Opposed by councelor Grave. That motion

[1:52:21] passes. Thank you everyone. That was a good discussion. Moving along to reports

[1:52:26] for action.

[1:52:34] Reports for action. We have a request for a development development variance

[1:52:39] permit 1010 Mat Lake Park Drive. We have a report here. And um who's going to

[1:52:48] take that? Councelor Schukan. >> Thank you very much, Mayor Little. Um

[1:52:52] again the variance request is for a setback of 24 meters just slightly over

[1:52:57] that from 50 meters which is in our bylaw. Uh when all and and that is the

[1:53:04] only thing there the building is the size of the um secondary suite as

[1:53:08] required by the um land use bylaw. Um I will so from my perspective um the

[1:53:18] proposed variance does minimize sight disturbances and helps maintain the

[1:53:22] natural character of the property especially with the shared driveway and

[1:53:26] with the one variance just being the setback um from the principal residence.

[1:53:32] We're we're not considering everything else. the residences or sorry the

[1:53:36] setbacks from the side and front of the yard are well within our um our

[1:53:42] allowances. Now I do take Mr. Gross's um comments um but into consideration but

[1:53:50] we do take those into consideration. We look at what the potential impacts are

[1:53:54] to biodiversity elements and consistency with community values and also um

[1:54:00] especially the setbacks the required setbacks. So with that, I would like to

[1:54:05] move that um council direct staff to issue development variance permit

[1:54:10] application 2602 further recommendation. So moved.

[1:54:14] » Moved by councelor Shukin, seconded by council Donaldson. Do you wish to

[1:54:17] motivate further further?

[1:54:22] » Okay. No comments from councelor Shukin. Councelter Donaldson,

[1:54:27] » I just want to comment that uh we did do a site visit

[1:54:30] » uh to see where uh the the lay of the land was. There are no trees or

[1:54:36] shrubbery in the way. It's uh interesting that it isn't upland zone

[1:54:39] because it was uh fairly level. Yeah.

[1:54:43] » Um the concern in the report was that there was a rock in the middle of the

[1:54:47] driveway. I didn't see that, but that again isn't a concern. They put the

[1:54:52] driveway where they needed to. uh based on the bedrock underneath and the um and

[1:54:58] cited the fact that the uh secondary dwelling on the opposite side of that

[1:55:04] drive shared driveway to the house. Um anything closer uh there's quite a a

[1:55:12] deviation into the um of the land that goes into say the basement area. the

[1:55:19] frontal part or I guess the Maton Lake side of it is more filled. So building

[1:55:24] on fill isn't as um secure I suppose than where they sited. So I do

[1:55:29] appreciate the site that they have. I um empathize with the neighbor with the

[1:55:35] sounds traveling because there has been nobody on this property ever. There's no

[1:55:40] dwellings on this property. It's been vacant for no

[1:55:45] forever I guess. Yeah. So, so that will be certainly an adjustment. Certainly

[1:55:49] something um that maybe the neighbors can um work through as well. So, I I do

[1:55:55] understand the concerns there. >> Okay. Councelor Gray, you weren't able

[1:56:01] to attend the site visit. Um but did you have any comments regarding this?

[1:56:08] » Yes, I do. We've looked at quite a few variances um

[1:56:13] for this sort of thing and this is the first time we've heard from a neighbor

[1:56:17] opposing the application for variance on the basis of the noise and disturbance.

[1:56:23] Um each time we've looked at the variances

[1:56:27] I've considered I think council considered two questions. One was would

[1:56:32] it disturb the neighbors um as much or more than the principal

[1:56:37] residents? And two was what about the driveway? A single driveway with no

[1:56:43] opportunity for a new driveway which might um

[1:56:48] encourage subdivision interest in future times. So of the two tests, this one

[1:56:53] seems to fail on the first test. um the disturbance of the neighbors and

[1:56:59] I'm also concerned with the issue of Mr. Gross when he spoke said he re

[1:57:06] received the referral on Friday before to before the meeting today on Monday.

[1:57:10] So, I'm wondering about the other neighbors and I'm curious if we and

[1:57:15] maybe I'm pitch to the planning chair, M councelor Schukan, should we be

[1:57:20] deferring this until we hear concretely from all of the neighbors who have been

[1:57:24] sent referrals,

[1:57:29] » councelor Shuken, um we can also ask staff um uh Mr. Payet, as I understand

[1:57:35] it, um we did receive replies from um anybody else that received the letter,

[1:57:44] » Miss uh Miss Barnes or CEO Payet. >> Um I don't really have a response other

[1:57:51] than um if there's if there's a date on the

[1:57:55] letter to respond by maybe. I don't remember seeing the letter, but we could

[1:58:00] look that up. >> Okay. quickly.

[1:58:02] » This this was a letter that was sent to the the neighbors regarding the

[1:58:05] application. Go ahead, councelor >> Shugan. Um I'm I'm not preferred sorry

[1:58:09] I'm not prepared to um wait. I mean if the vote at the table is is such um we

[1:58:16] can the one thing I would just say whether it's 15 m 24 meters the you know

[1:58:23] the impact of sound is unlikely to change

[1:58:26] » based on you know the secondary Sweden and the difference of um what is it 9

[1:58:31] meters so again as councelor Donaldson says there's been no home there

[1:58:36] » ever so that is a change I I and we all sorry there are many of us in the

[1:58:41] community that go through this. Uh you live next to a site that isn't developed

[1:58:45] and all of a sudden you've got uh great neighbors next to you and their lovely

[1:58:49] dog and children and all that and you hear noise you never did before. So,

[1:58:52] » Right. Right. And actually, since we've got the applicant here and the neighbor

[1:58:57] at this meeting, perhaps we can after the council meeting introduce them both

[1:59:01] so that they have a starting basis for a good neighbor uh to neighbor

[1:59:07] communication. um because many of the issues that we deal with or or that

[1:59:11] staff deals with are neighborto- neighbor issue and it costs us a lot of

[1:59:15] money and by law enforcement. So uh let's um I hopefully these two parties

[1:59:21] can um connect and talk about their mutual uh differences and uh their the

[1:59:28] places where they meet on. Okay.

[1:59:33] And that's also about the the site visit. That is the beauty of us going to

[1:59:37] the site and seeing for ourselves. Um seeing uh plans on a map are very

[1:59:43] difficult uh to make a decision and that's why we insist upon every time

[1:59:48] going for a site visit and that's the beauty of seeing that that property

[1:59:52] because it's not a a large uh canopied property. It's pretty wide open and it

[1:59:57] is in the definition of the uplands. It's sort of rocky outcrops. uh it's not

[2:00:03] necessarily a a treed area uh where you'd have that buffer. Um but the

[2:00:10] property owner also at that site visit that that others that didn't attend it

[2:00:14] would know. Um it was pointed out to her that or to um the the uh mother of the

[2:00:21] owner of the property that there's a very a huge amount of gor growing which

[2:00:26] is a huge fire hazard uh for us in this community as we saw in California when

[2:00:32] uh the hills went up and it was u some of it due to uh species like gorse and

[2:00:38] so um she said at that time thank you uh we've got the digger here or the the

[2:00:43] bulldozer here we can rip it with the bulldozer and um but there's some on the

[2:00:48] other side of the fence. So, they'll have to have those communications with

[2:00:51] their neighbors. So, okay. Well, let's move to calling the question then. I'll

[2:00:56] call call the question. All in favor? Those opposed?

[2:01:03] » Opposed. >> Uh those uh that passes unanimously.

[2:01:08] Councelor Donaldson. Did you vote in favor?

[2:01:12] » Yeah. Council Donaldson, Council Schukan, myself voted in favor.

[2:01:16] Councelor Gray was opposed. Okay, moving along to reports for

[2:01:21] information. We have the District of Mosen public communication statistics

[2:01:25] report June 2026.

[2:01:31] If I could have a motion. Yep. Move receipt by councelor Shukan, seconded by

[2:01:37] council Donaldson. comment. Get these monthly. I'll call the

[2:01:43] question. All in favor? Opposed? No one opposed. We have the District of Mosen

[2:01:49] building inspection department report June 2026.

[2:01:53] The report. I'll take a motion.

[2:01:58] » Moved by councelor Shuken receipt. Seconded by council Donaldson. All those

[2:02:04] in favor? Anyone opposed?

[2:02:10] Hearing no one opposed. Let's move along to 10. A this is correspondence. We have

[2:02:15] a request from the mayor of the city of Victoria. A request for contribution to

[2:02:21] support the 2026 Truth and Reconciliation Day ceremonial event. The

[2:02:27] letter is there for your perusal. Um what say ye? Does anybody have any

[2:02:33] comments regarding this letter? I will comment then. I think um I think

[2:02:40] it behooves us if we've got some money uh to support the city of Victoria. I

[2:02:45] think even a nominal uh a very modest uh donation of let's say $200 to support

[2:02:52] this. We've never supported it before. It is a regional um activity. It's

[2:02:58] attended by thousands. were welcome to attend and I would ask maybe a comment

[2:03:04] from our CFO if we have money um in the budget uh to do this. If not then then

[2:03:10] we don't do we have any um extra funds. Uh we're pretty tight here. Uh CFO Creek

[2:03:20] » through the chair. Um so council has already given away all the money that's

[2:03:24] been budgeted for the grant aid um for 2026.

[2:03:28] But if you wanted to give 200, we could uh pull something out from the uh

[2:03:34] unappropriated surplus. >> Okay.

[2:03:37] » And that would hold uh for other requests uh such as the First Nations

[2:03:42] Canoe Family uh tribal journey as well if we were to go down that route. Um

[2:03:48] that would be from um surplus as well >> through the chair certainly could do

[2:03:55] that. Uh but we've actually we do have some grant funding that is more than

[2:03:59] likely available for that purpose. We can talk about that one pops up.

[2:04:02] » Okay. So we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Let's deal with this one. Uh

[2:04:06] Maryanne Alto's request. >> Uh go ahead council shooken.

[2:04:11] » Mayor Little, if that's a motion to support the um the regional powo at

[2:04:15] $200, I'll second it. >> Okay. Yep. So that was moved by me.

[2:04:20] Mayor Little, seconded by councelor Schukan. Anybody else have any comments?

[2:04:27] Okay, I'll call the question. All in favor?

[2:04:31] Those opposed? Hearing none opposed. Let's move along

[2:04:34] to 10B. This is a request from Julia Leget, a manager of the counseling

[2:04:40] programs for the P Pacific Center Family Services Association. This is a request

[2:04:45] for longterm funding for the mobile youth services team.

[2:04:52] Uh, you can see the letter there. I'm just pulling it up. My my computer has

[2:04:57] frozen. Oh, there we go. Okay. So, this is the

[2:05:01] letter dated uh June 30th out of interest for everybody in the um

[2:05:07] community. This was sent to every council, every municipality in the

[2:05:11] region within the CRD. So, they're they're advocating. This is the Pacific

[2:05:17] Center Family Services Association located in the city of Cwood. Um, they

[2:05:23] are advocating for long-term funding for the mobile youth services team, which is

[2:05:28] uh a team composed of a counselor and a police officer that moves throughout the

[2:05:35] region responding to youth and family concerns regarding

[2:05:41] um sex trafficking, regarding um youth being in trouble for one reason

[2:05:48] or another. they're supported by this pro this program and uh otherwise

[2:05:54] they're facing violence um gang recruitment, sexual exploitation and

[2:05:59] trafficking uh substance use um and in contact with the police or the courts at

[2:06:06] the Victoria Family Court and Youth Justice. We have been advocating

[2:06:10] strongly for the eight years that I've been on the committee. I'm chair of the

[2:06:14] committee and I'm actually quite exhausted writing letters and speaking

[2:06:19] about the need for this um long-term uh funding for this group. As you'll

[2:06:25] mention at this table, we did hear from Superintendent Todd Preston that he had

[2:06:31] changed the model which was very unfortunate without notice to us,

[2:06:36] without engagement, without any kind of consultation. We heard about it after

[2:06:41] the fact that the uh Westshore was no longer going to be a part of the uh

[2:06:47] missed or a part of that mobile youth services team. Um which was very

[2:06:53] disappointing to me and I'm hoping that will change in the future. But regarding

[2:06:57] this specific ask, um I did put put forward a notice of motion at the CRD

[2:07:03] table last week. Um and that passed unanimously and that was to ask, it was

[2:07:10] simple ask. It was to ask the staff at the CRD to consider funding options.

[2:07:18] What is available at the CRD table for this regional mobile youth services

[2:07:24] team? And I I brought that forward because it is applicable. It is a

[2:07:29] regional table that I sit on and this is a regional service. So this is not

[2:07:34] problems that are only happening in Langford. Believe me, it's happening in

[2:07:39] Oak Bay, Central Sanage, Sydney and this mobile youth services team is uh moves

[2:07:46] across borders. I'm very passionate about the group. Um and uh that's why I

[2:07:53] um I put forward the notice of motion. So I'm not sure if um we need to

[2:07:59] actually do anything. We can send an advocacy letter. That would be great. Um

[2:08:04] I've written hundreds I'm sure for the mobile youth services team and I can

[2:08:08] write one more. Um but we it is um at the hands of the CRD uh right now and I

[2:08:15] think that is more appropriate than individual municipalities responding

[2:08:20] with with um either advocacy or funding. Have I made that clear? Yeah. Okay.

[2:08:28] Councelor Donaldson, >> I'm just wondering um as I read through

[2:08:33] this letter um >> I understand the value of of this group

[2:08:38] for sure. >> Um but like so many things keeps getting

[2:08:43] downloaded to municipalities. >> So I appreciate you making the notice

[2:08:46] motion and I would like for us when we when when you move that along to to get

[2:08:52] more of a report on that. But I'm also thinking we're also going to UBCM and if

[2:08:57] it's if there's an opportunity to put in a late resolution

[2:09:01] » to this effect >> because that is the place to do it.

[2:09:05] » Yeah, we have had no motions um delegations at at UBCM before. U but

[2:09:11] it's a good it's a good thought. Let's let's put our heads together and and um

[2:09:16] put in a a late motion. That's that's a good idea. Um what was your first point?

[2:09:22] I've forgotten. Well, I'm just saying like the um the fact that this is a very

[2:09:27] valuable service, >> right?

[2:09:29] » Right. Um you've got this notice motion at the CRD

[2:09:34] and and all the leaders there of the region are there.

[2:09:38] » Um [clears throat] yeah, you could you could write another letter to the

[2:09:41] province, but it may fall on deaf ears, but rallying up

[2:09:45] » sure >> everybody in the region. Yeah.

[2:09:47] » Um and then I look further on here about the percentage. I mean 1% of Machosen

[2:09:53] just in our budget alone that's $30,000. But if we compare that with, you know,

[2:09:59] um other communities here, they're paying more. Obviously, they got more

[2:10:03] people, that sort of stuff. It's I don't know. It's it

[2:10:06] it's only 1%, but 1% is a lot of money. >> It is a lot of money for us. Yeah.

[2:10:11] » Okay. Regarding I'm so glad that you brought this up, Councelor Donaldson.

[2:10:16] Very perceptive of you. that uh comment regarding downloading was also at the

[2:10:21] CRD table. It was my Tate actually that that mentioned that we have been subject

[2:10:27] we as municipalities have been subject to uh downloading and what my response

[2:10:32] to that was that the province um they're in uh billions of dollars deficit. Um I

[2:10:39] understand that um the the federal government also has different priorities

[2:10:44] at the moment uh given the global global crisis. Um it's just simply I brought

[2:10:50] this forward because I'm impatient and I'm not trying to point fingers at the

[2:10:55] province or the feds. I'm just impatient because it's been eight years of hard

[2:11:00] advocacy and we haven't seen anything move. And so that's why I brought it to

[2:11:05] the CRD table and it passed uh unanimously by the way despite the

[2:11:09] reservations from uh the the um district of Souk and the city of Colwood. It it

[2:11:16] was a unanimous uh decision to ask staff to go back and look at funding options.

[2:11:23] Okay. So um I think what we should do if you don't mind my direction is move

[2:11:30] receipt of this letter. Would that be palatable at the table? Okay, go ahead.

[2:11:35] Council Dalson, would you like to do that?

[2:11:38] » Yeah, I would suggest that we move receipt on this um this correspondence.

[2:11:42] » Okay. Moved by council Donaldson, seconded by council Shukin. Any

[2:11:47] comments? Call the question. All in favor?

[2:11:51] Opposed? That's unanimous. Okay, great. Uh moving right along to

[2:11:58] uh other correspondents. This is correspondence in 10 C from Kevin

[2:12:03] Murdoch, the mayor of Oak Bay. This is a request for advocacy letter for

[2:12:08] continued local government climate action program LGCAP

[2:12:14] funding and this is the correspondence certainly a great idea. Does anybody

[2:12:19] want to comment on this or make a motion? Let's put the motion on the

[2:12:24] table. Councelor Shuk, >> I um I believe that we had talked about

[2:12:30] writing our own letter >> and um

[2:12:34] happy to assist you with that, Mayor Little. And uh yeah, I very much agree

[2:12:38] with the principles and I think it was a letter that we got from Sandwich

[2:12:42] » previously. >> Yeah, that's right. Okay, that's right.

[2:12:45] » Okay. Um but uh that I think that motion is already in place so I can make a

[2:12:50] motion to receive. >> Sure. and and um

[2:12:55] yes, we did have that motion previously. I'm just looking to staff to uh comment

[2:13:01] on that. And the letter is in draft form, our own letter, right? Yeah. Okay.

[2:13:07] Yep. Um written hundreds of letters and I appreciate your support and and help

[2:13:12] uh councelor Schukan. Okay. So, uh, move receipt from councelor Schukan, seconded

[2:13:19] by councelor Donaldson. All in favor? Opposed? Carried. We have

[2:13:26] 10 C, correspondence from Stacy Charles, Shiano First Nation Canoe Family

[2:13:32] Partnership Support for Tribal Journey 2026 event. We did support them a couple

[2:13:39] of years ago. They didn't they went to the CRD last year. They're not asking

[2:13:43] the CRD. They've come back to us uh for a request. Anybody at the table want to

[2:13:49] move this forward? Councelor

[2:13:53] » councelor Shu can go ahead and then we'll talk. Go ahead. Put it on the

[2:13:57] table. >> I I wonder if we might find a way of

[2:13:59] contributing a thousand dollars to the uh to this event. That is what we

[2:14:03] provided a few years ago. If there is a grant uh which councelor Donaldson had

[2:14:09] mentioned I I don't know what is available in the grant but

[2:14:12] » yeah that's what was indicated by the CFO we can ask him to comment. So let's

[2:14:16] put the motion on the floor uh moved by councelor Schukan to support the tribal

[2:14:21] journey by $1,000 seconded by council Donaldson. Um do you

[2:14:27] want to further motivate No. Uh, Council Donaldson,

[2:14:31] » I I would like to um include um comments from our um colleague um

[2:14:40] Council Gray is he had some correspondence he was sharing with us

[2:14:44] earlier about um grants or something like that. I can't remember.

[2:14:49] » Yeah. Yeah. Let's move to the CFO and then we'll move to councelor Councelor

[2:14:53] Gray. um CFO Creek uh regarding the grant that that might be um this might

[2:14:59] fall under that category >> through the chair. Uh so the district um

[2:15:05] received funding in 2024 and 2025 for indigenous engagement and

[2:15:10] reconciliation. Um it seems like it would likely fall under that scope. Um

[2:15:15] it would certainly help with the grant reporting if one or more council members

[2:15:20] wanted to also attend this. Um, but we'd certainly have ordered enough in there

[2:15:25] to uh give them $1,000. >> Okay. Okay. Councelor Gray,

[2:15:33] » yes, I'll be attending the event. Um, my suggestion was that we had received some

[2:15:38] money under a grant as

[2:15:45] thisation. I wonder if we could just um be reminded on the the total amount of

[2:15:50] that grant. We haven't spent any of it as far as I'm aware.

[2:15:54] » That recent grant, I don't believe we spent any. Um I'm just going to return

[2:15:58] to our CFO, CFO Creek. Can you comment on that

[2:16:02] » through the chair? Uh correct. We haven't spent any of it. Uh and right

[2:16:06] now we've got $96,000. Uh now, the fire chief is going to be

[2:16:10] using some of that funds in order to uh build out the EOC program. Uh and that

[2:16:16] requires the cooperation of uh Beach Bay Shu. uh and so that will take up tens of

[2:16:21] thousands uh as they build out that report and hire the consultants etc. So

[2:16:25] I wouldn't give it all for this particular program but there's certainly

[2:16:30] enough funding in there. >> Yeah. So what I'm hearing we we can

[2:16:34] within the grant framework we can definitely afford to give uh $1,000 for

[2:16:39] this tribal journey as well. Okay. I will be attending as well. I did attend

[2:16:44] the uh Shano First Nations tribal journey last year and potlatch very very

[2:16:50] interesting event and hope to be invited to the pot latch again this year. Uh but

[2:16:56] the tribal journey was was definitely an um really interesting event to witness.

[2:17:04] I'll be attending as well and I'll encourage others to

[2:17:08] Okay, >> Mayor Little.

[2:17:10] » Yes, >> Mayor Little.

[2:17:12] » Yes, I'm here. I'm I'm intending to volunteer at the event and I would

[2:17:16] certainly support the donation of $1,000 and then I would hope that we would then

[2:17:22] uh look to other things that we might support with Shannon Nation with the um

[2:17:26] much remaining fund as we heard from the CFO and our fire fire chief activity. So

[2:17:31] I look forward to expanding those dollars in support of our dear

[2:17:35] neighbors. >> Yes indeed. Uh go ahead councelor

[2:17:39] Schukan. >> I wonder if we could ask Mr. Creek if

[2:17:42] there is a um timeline or sorry a time limit in terms of spending this

[2:17:47] particular grant through the chair. So we've already

[2:17:51] gotten an extension as the 2024 funds were supposed to be spent by the start

[2:17:55] of 2026. Um that didn't happen. The previous fire chief was working with

[2:17:59] them to try and arrange something. Um but we should have it spent by 2027.

[2:18:06] But if that doesn't occur, we're sure they'll give us another extension anyway

[2:18:09] for another year on top of that to 2028. But

[2:18:14] » okay. >> Okay.

[2:18:16] » Just um clearly this is probably something the next council should give

[2:18:21] some consideration to. It's >> in terms of putting it in the budget.

[2:18:25] um in terms of how we work with Channu to spend the money effectively and yeah

[2:18:31] » as I as I understand perhaps staff can comment um the EOC emergency management

[2:18:38] there is a they are working on an emergency management plan in

[2:18:42] collaboration with Shannu uh uh for Shano uh first nation and they're

[2:18:49] developing those and and quite a bit of the funds will be directed towards that

[2:18:53] is that not correct Yeah.

[2:18:55] » Okay, that's great. So, we do even though we can't see it, there are those

[2:19:00] channels of of collaboration and supporting each other.

[2:19:04] » Great. Just, you know, two ideas I might throw out if there are funds. Um,

[2:19:08] shoreline protection might be um something to look at. Shoreline

[2:19:12] assessments >> um but also um invasive removals as

[2:19:16] well, whether there's a way of funding that both at Chanu and and here as well.

[2:19:21] So, >> yeah. Okay. Okay. Good conversation. Um,

[2:19:25] I'm going to call the question on that. That is 10D. Stacy Charles Shana, First

[2:19:30] Nation Canoe Family Partnership Support for the Tribal Journey 2026. I'll call

[2:19:36] the question. All in favor? Those opposed?

[2:19:41] None opposed. Okay, let's move along to um uh how far along are we here? You

[2:19:49] know what? I'm just going to take a 90 second break. Um yeah, everybody stretch

[2:19:55] their legs and come back in less than

[2:25:33] Let's uh resume our meeting here. Any of the conversations and perhaps you

[2:25:39] can move out to the parking lot for further discussions and we'll resume our

[2:25:44] our council meeting. Thank you. Okay, moving along to item number 11,

[2:25:50] bylaws. This is the park dedication buffer land bylaw 2026 number 721.

[2:25:57] This is bylaw number 721 at third reading. Uh council Schukan, do you want

[2:26:03] to start off or council Donaldson? >> Yes. I'd like to move that council adopt

[2:26:08] park dedication buffer land bylaw to 2026

[2:26:13] number 721. This is moved by council Donaldson,

[2:26:17] seconded by council Schukan. For those in the room, it's displayed up on your

[2:26:22] on the screen here. Uh, council Donaldson, if you would wish to motivate

[2:26:27] further. >> Uh, I just want to uh thank all of the

[2:26:31] people that have been involved in this process starting with the Bufferland

[2:26:35] working group. Um, actually may have been started before that, but they

[2:26:39] formalized the recommendations for staff. um staff have done a great deal

[2:26:44] of work on it as well. We uh I think we've had two different planners working

[2:26:49] through this process and um and now we have a uh an energetic group of uh

[2:26:57] friends of bufferland doing invasive work and looking at the future of

[2:27:02] managing or protecting in their way of their neighborhood the uh buffer land.

[2:27:08] Um and here we are this evening for the third reading of uh

[2:27:14] the bufferland having a new zone. Um and I would defer the next um uh bit of

[2:27:23] history perhaps to my colleague councelor Shukin as to um how it came to

[2:27:28] be to have this place called the buffer land.

[2:27:32] » Yeah, thank you. that would be helpful because um people in the room and others

[2:27:37] haven't been paying attention probably for the full length of this. This has

[2:27:41] been a long drawn out process over the last four years. So I'd appreciate a a

[2:27:46] brief synopsis. >> Yeah. Yeah.

[2:27:48] » Well, um just let me begin by saying wow and thanks. Um this has been yeah four

[2:27:55] years in the making and I remember having a conversation even before the

[2:28:00] the term began. um talking about the responsibility that the community has to

[2:28:06] the residents living in the Neil Road area because of the vote that was taken

[2:28:11] in 2017 that involved the land swap because it does have the potential of

[2:28:16] bringing in these um section 25, 28 and 95 into Machosen in terms of ownership

[2:28:23] but it also did lead to the impacts that those neighbors are feeling in terms of

[2:28:27] the development of Central Mountain. Um this is a big step toward that but um

[2:28:34] there's a lot of work ahead of us as well and as councelor Donaldson was

[2:28:37] saying we have a great group of energetic volunteers who are going to

[2:28:40] help us help the council of the day think through some of the issues and put

[2:28:45] forward ideas and also do some of the leg work on this as well. Um so again uh

[2:28:51] yeah we've been through um we the very first thing that triggered this way back

[2:28:58] in early 2023 was news of the storm water the covenant

[2:29:03] that would allow a storm water detention pond on the buffer land and it was it I

[2:29:08] think from that that we decided to get mobilized and do a working group on the

[2:29:11] bufferland which began I think it was in early 2024. We did our report on time in

[2:29:17] October of 2024 and again went through some you know swirl and the usual

[2:29:23] bureaucracy of getting this moving along. Mr. PayP was very helpful at um

[2:29:27] moving moving again this to um a good conclusion by bringing in a contract

[2:29:33] planner when our current planner was busy with the the housing work housing

[2:29:37] report that sorry housing amendments uh that were done and as needed to be done

[2:29:42] by the province. So, here we are. And uh I uh if goes without saying, I'm gonna

[2:29:48] vote in favor. So, thanks everyone. >> Okay. Any other comments or concerns?

[2:29:56] » Yeah. Councelor Gray here. I just want to um enthusiastically support the

[2:30:00] motion. Thanks to everyone who's worked so hard on this.

[2:30:04] » Yeah. and my my [clears throat] excuse me my my congratulations to both council

[2:30:10] Schukan and council Donaldson who took this up. It wasn't in your portfolio

[2:30:15] originally. It was in the environment portfolio, but you you um took it on as

[2:30:21] your own. Uh there was great excuse [clears throat] me great public

[2:30:25] engagement um great outreach to the community and this is a wonderful

[2:30:31] outcome uh for the bufferland. Okay, I'll call the question. All in favor?

[2:30:38] Those opposed? No one opposed. That's unanimous.

[2:30:43] Congratulations, council. Next we have the general tax exemption bylaw 2026

[2:30:49] number 723. This is a report followed by a number of

[2:30:55] different uh schedules A to J. There are recommendations [snorts]

[2:31:00] here. Um I think what we'll do is we'll go to the report first. Um here that

[2:31:07] I've got some general comments after that. Uh and we've got a number of

[2:31:11] different options tonight. Um including deferral to a September 21st meeting if

[2:31:18] needed. if council needs more information to make that evidence-based

[2:31:22] decision that we've been talking about for the last four years. So with that,

[2:31:26] I'll turn to our CFO, Jeffrey Creek. Go ahead, Mr. Creek.

[2:31:42] Thank you, Mayor and Council. So through the chair, uh this is as you mentioned

[2:31:47] the 2027 permissive tax exemptions. Uh council may grant permissive tax

[2:31:51] exemptions to qualifying properties under section 224 and 225 of the

[2:31:55] community charter. Uh permissive tax exemptions are discretionary and must be

[2:31:59] established by bylaw before the statutory deadline. Uh this related

[2:32:03] bylaw must be adopted by October 31st or November 2nd because October 31st is on

[2:32:08] the weekend this year. Uh but November 2nd is the first day of the new council

[2:32:12] and they can't pass it by law uh that they didn't do the first, second, third

[2:32:16] reading on. So it's all you guys. Um purposes report lay out the uh

[2:32:23] applications that have been received estimated financial impact and then

[2:32:26] whether or not uh council wants to approve a full partial or no permissive

[2:32:30] tax exemption for 2027. [music]

[2:32:34] So the district received eight different organizations applications. Uh they

[2:32:38] cover 14 different properties valued at close to $34 million.

[2:32:43] Uh they provide space for rent, recreation, reserved habitat, religious

[2:32:47] services, and animal welfare wildlife care. Um all the applications were

[2:32:53] reviewed against policy F100.60. All applicants were found eligible for

[2:32:58] permissive tax exemption based on those criteria. And so while the district uh

[2:33:04] while they met the district policy for approval, council has discretion based

[2:33:08] on policy and the community charter on whether to approve any or all groups and

[2:33:11] how much of an exemption is provided. Uh so I didn't estimate based on their

[2:33:16] 2026 assessed value and then at 5% tax increase uh in 2027 and the total uh

[2:33:23] value of exemptions would be 324,000.

[2:33:28] Um there was a few criteria that like maybe kind of pause and think on whether

[2:33:35] or not they did qualify. Uh under the policy if a portion of the land or imp

[2:33:40] improvements is used by a private sector entity and or organization not meeting

[2:33:44] exemption criteria. And so with [clears throat] this the

[2:33:47] Anglican Church currently rents out their building to a number of groups

[2:33:50] such as Drivewise, Exercise Classes, Elections BC, and Elections Canada. And

[2:33:56] those are groups that would not meet council's exemption criteria, but

[2:33:59] because they rent out that space, uh they receive a benefit of below market

[2:34:03] rent due to the exemption provided by the district. Um and then further

[2:34:08] criteria maintains an organization does not compete with private enterprise.

[2:34:12] This is a little harder to do in Mosen as it's not a big business area. Uh but

[2:34:17] there are some private event spaces to rent and machosen which could be

[2:34:21] negatively impacted by machosen providing funding for some operations of

[2:34:25] these organizations and not others if they're not owned by a society or

[2:34:29] nonprofit organization. So a small caveat but historically the district's

[2:34:34] always provided an exemption or in this case uh for 2026 a grant.

[2:34:41] Uh so in 2027 uh we can see that the on page three

[2:34:48] here the municipal tax value of the total exemptions would be $167,000.

[2:34:53] The other taxing authorities would be $157,000

[2:34:56] for a total of 324. The impact on municipal taxes is about

[2:35:01] $80 for the average residential property or about 4% of their total tax bill from

[2:35:06] chosen. And then below I get into um the rising

[2:35:12] cost of this. So as the district I chosen um has a very small and almost

[2:35:19] non-growing tax base. Uh the cost of the grants and permissive tax exemptions

[2:35:23] that have been given for over the last three years. Uh it's growing from

[2:35:27] 344,000 up to $457,000 uh next year if these permissive tax

[2:35:32] exemptions are granted. and the subsidies and grants to other

[2:35:35] organizations remain the same as estimated for 2026.

[2:35:40] Uh there's a breakdown where this comes from. So there's grant aid for 5,000. We

[2:35:44] give grant a taxes permissive taxes for $240,000 this year. We give grants to

[2:35:50] organizations of $42,000. And then with subsidized rent to MEA, community house,

[2:35:56] that type of thing for 86,500.

[2:36:00] When we compare that to the rest of the CRD, um we chose in as at at the top of

[2:36:04] the list. Uh so our total grants and tax exemptions would come to 8.3% of total

[2:36:10] tax revenue collected. Um the average in the CRD is 2.98%.

[2:36:16] The median is 2.25%. If we focus solely on permissive tax

[2:36:20] exemptions, the average in the CRD is 1.79%

[2:36:25] compared with a median of 1.7 whereas Machosen has uh gives 4.68%.

[2:36:32] So Mosen's not the only one where everybody comes to ask for money. Um

[2:36:38] there happens in every municipality. So a number of municipalities in the CRD

[2:36:42] have already decided to put a cap on their permissive tax exemptions. And so

[2:36:47] this is something council can consider this year talkable for next year and

[2:36:52] possibly implement in the future. But if we look at the table uh souk so they put

[2:36:57] a limit of 1.7% central san 1.5% Victoria is 1.6% and squalt 5% whereas

[2:37:06] oak bay doesn't provide any tax exemptions unless it's a nonprofit or

[2:37:10] charity organization that is renting municipal land. Um and then there's a

[2:37:15] few more on the island mainland itself. But

[2:37:20] it is uh if MHosen were to limit their exemptions to the same as Souk at 1.7%

[2:37:25] at the highest on the island here um or in the CRD total value would be knocked

[2:37:30] down to 90,900 or 55% of the total estimated tax exemptions for 2027 which

[2:37:37] would save residential property owners about $38 on the taxes along with

[2:37:41] savings from the other taxi authorities like parks and recck transit Victoria

[2:37:45] Library etc.

[2:37:49] Um so the process and timeline here so we've received all the applications

[2:37:54] reviewed it um coming to hear for council's direction on what they want to

[2:37:58] do. We do have to put out a public notice under section 227. We have to

[2:38:02] advertise in the paper for two consecutive weeks. Uh and so there's a

[2:38:06] possibility that this cannot be wrapped up on September 21st. Um but ideally

[2:38:12] no later than October 5th to avoid calling a special meeting before the

[2:38:16] election on October 17th. Uh so staff is coming um asking for a

[2:38:23] few options here whether to provide full exemptions to all properties that

[2:38:26] applied full exemptions to some prop some groups and partial exemptions to

[2:38:31] others that generate income from ineligible groups. Set a funding limit

[2:38:35] on the permissive tax exemptions i.e. 2% of total tax revenue or don't provide

[2:38:40] any exemptions. And now there is um put the caveat on there could be some people

[2:38:47] with conflict of interest that was mentioned last year. Um they say discuss

[2:38:52] the policy and report as a whole before diving into any individual groups

[2:38:56] itself. Um and then if needed uh we can come back on September 21st with

[2:39:02] multiple bylaws that break out the groups that would have a conflict of

[2:39:06] interest or not if we don't have a quorum when people declare a conflict of

[2:39:11] interest kind of go from there discussion.

[2:39:17] » Okay. Uh I think what we'll do is we'll excuse me entertain uh questions and

[2:39:23] concerns and then we'll move to other aspects. So questions and concerns,

[2:39:31] who wants to discuss it? >> Um,

[2:39:36] so uh I want to thank Mr. Creek again for continuing to expand our knowledge

[2:39:42] of permissive tax exemptions and the fiscal impact they have um on our

[2:39:48] taxpayers. Uh again, I don't believe that this was fully known and except um

[2:39:55] when this was brought up last year. Um and even me once I had it, I had to

[2:39:59] probably have it explained about four times. Um the point was made last year

[2:40:06] that if we were to make any sort of change to PTEES, we really should give

[2:40:13] the groups significant notice on that. And and that is a point I will confess

[2:40:19] that I lost and I think is actually a wise one. So my own as I as I look at

[2:40:25] things right now and without the benefit of my comments from my colleagues I

[2:40:29] would be in favor of continuing the PTEES as they once were. So maintain the

[2:40:35] status quo but also suggest that there is a deeper discussion that is held on

[2:40:42] permissive tax exemptions and the other funding that we provide to community

[2:40:47] groups and initiatives um

[2:40:51] and and have that deeper discussion in terms of the PTS. I mean the discussion

[2:40:56] might go in terms of what what level you know we set but the point was made I

[2:41:01] think by Mr. Bennington too about the year after year of having to um um come

[2:41:07] to council and apply like and and that does leave these groups with a bit of

[2:41:12] uncertainty. So that might also be a topic of conversation once we get into

[2:41:16] the deeper issue. Um so so again my my I'm I'm interested in hearing what my

[2:41:22] colleagues have to say. My suggested approach would be to maintain the status

[2:41:26] quo with PTEs but also discuss PTEs and the other funding that we provide to

[2:41:32] community groups sometime in the new year and this would be under the new

[2:41:36] council as well. So, >> so there's um some is some comments that

[2:41:43] our staff can make regarding our statutory obligations and what we are

[2:41:47] confined to do with permissive tax exemptions. I'm going to turn to our uh

[2:41:53] CFO Creek. Could you comment on some of those and some of the other concerns of

[2:41:57] of councelor Shu? >> Certainly. Thank you through the chair.

[2:42:01] Um so I guess going going back to the original idea there of having to apply

[2:42:05] every year to get this exemption. Um so before we put in the policy in 2025,

[2:42:13] right, um the policy we chosen was a page and a half and there was no

[2:42:18] application, right? people just wrote in a letter said, "Please give us an

[2:42:22] exemption or we do X and then they got it." It was always on an annual basis.

[2:42:29] It was never you've got this forever, right? A municipality can't give a tax

[2:42:33] exemption forever to anybody. There's a limit of 10 years, right? So, I haven't

[2:42:39] seen anybody that does give an exemption for 10 years. Most of it, some people

[2:42:44] have done it where we'll give her four years, right? line up with the council

[2:42:48] term. Don't lock in the next people. And that's certainly something we can do.

[2:42:52] Um, come 2027, new council shows up. It's like, hey, like church always gets

[2:42:57] it, the hall always gets it, YMD always gets it. Put it in, lock it in for four

[2:43:01] years. This is what you're going to get. Then they know. Um, now we'll provide

[2:43:05] the certainty. I don't really know where the idea that we never [clears throat]

[2:43:10] like there was no application process before, right? So people just assume

[2:43:13] that they would always get it. Some kind of handshake agreement that was made

[2:43:17] that hey don't worry about it you'll never we'll never challenge you on it.

[2:43:21] Um and so I would say when I first started here

[2:43:25] right everybody just complained about their taxes being too high even though

[2:43:29] you know be the bad guy that pointed out it's like second lowest in the CRD. Um,

[2:43:33] and so when we find out that all these organizations that are applying, the

[2:43:38] majority of them had net incomes, like after all the expenses of half million

[2:43:42] dollars, some groups have like get it give a give a grant to a group that has

[2:43:47] $3,000 in cash in their bank account. But to give a grant to somebody who has

[2:43:52] $300 million in their bank account kind of blew my mind, but do whatever you

[2:43:57] want with the money. I don't get to make a decision. Um, so it was kind of

[2:44:01] pointing out, look, all of these organizations, nonprofit, they're still

[2:44:06] making millions of dollars, and so they can pay, you would think they would be

[2:44:10] able to pay $5,000, $6,000 to contribute to the roads, the fire services that

[2:44:15] they all rely on in the in the district, but again, didn't go over went over like

[2:44:22] a lead balloon. But this is where we can come out and say 2027 pass four years.

[2:44:28] like look, we got to we really need to take a look at this because over the

[2:44:31] next over those four years, the cost for this district are just going to keep

[2:44:35] escalating and if we have no tax base growth again, it just gets dumped onto

[2:44:41] the 98 93 and8% that are residential property owners. Um, and so it just gets

[2:44:47] more and more burdensome on them. And I I get it. They all these groups provide

[2:44:52] something, but um you gotta find some middle ground on support, but also help

[2:45:00] for the people that do struggle to live here that have been living here for 30,

[2:45:04] 40, 50 years. >> Did you want to carry on with your

[2:45:08] conversation and your questions and then we'll move to other people?

[2:45:13] Yeah, I um sorry just just really briefly um you know the the comment that

[2:45:17] was made earlier about how important these groups are in terms of providing

[2:45:21] basically the social fabric of the community and they are the these are

[2:45:26] wonderful groups. All of them do great work, but we also have to take into

[2:45:29] account MACA museum society, uh the community

[2:45:35] association, the equestrians. So all of these groups, um there's a cricket group

[2:45:41] that plays out in the field there. To me, they're they're they're all part of

[2:45:45] a spectrum of use in terms of social benefit and recreation and support. um

[2:45:52] even even in terms of um um land conservation as well. So when we look at

[2:45:57] something like the school that we know we've just seen the full potential of

[2:46:02] the school beginning to flower, remember the first year that we've had full

[2:46:07] ability of the school to sorry to rent the gym and the three classrooms was

[2:46:11] only 2025. So again there there's a there's a a

[2:46:16] facility there. There's interest in that from again community groups, but we're

[2:46:21] also seeing the pressure and the stresses that this is putting on staff

[2:46:24] and also the costs as well. So to me that is part of the full spectrum

[2:46:29] of again support that we provide to community organizations and initiatives

[2:46:34] and you I think you've identified that Mr. Creek. I think you've said that you

[2:46:38] know the additional figure is equivalent to 8.32 of all the taxes we collect like

[2:46:44] all of it together. Um, so we're at 8.32. The average in the CRD was 2.25.

[2:46:51] So we are I think that's what you said. Yeah.

[2:46:53] » Through. Yeah. And that that includes like the pills, right? With our with the

[2:46:57] federal government handing over, you know, almost like $1.5 million. So like

[2:47:02] we weren't collecting the pills, right? That disappeared.

[2:47:06] That number would, you know, increase by 35%. So you're talking over 10%. Okay.

[2:47:12] just residential tax going after this which would be astronomical for a

[2:47:18] district this size. >> So I I'll just hear you. I just one

[2:47:23] final comment. Um we are going to see costs increase. We're going to see uh

[2:47:28] continuing interest and expectation on the school. Something like the buffer

[2:47:32] land is also an important recreational and community benefit. Um so again um

[2:47:38] grant and a process are we putting enough into that? Um and again Miss Frri

[2:47:44] had said uh the number of requests that we keep getting and again it's almost

[2:47:49] every council meeting. So to me I very much support these groups. I very much

[2:47:54] support um providing the PTE. Uh I think there is a deeper conversation that does

[2:47:59] have to happen though. So um that's it. Thank you very much.

[2:48:03] » Thank you Kelton. >> Oh thank you. Um

[2:48:11] where where where to start? Um the application process um and I and thank

[2:48:17] you for the um some background on that Mr. Freak. Um to reapply every year is

[2:48:24] quite an honorous task because that is a very long application.

[2:48:28] Um so this is something we would need to discuss if it's you know every two

[2:48:32] years, five years or whatever. But the one thing I would like to see from all

[2:48:38] the people that um receive a tax exemption is a report, an annual report

[2:48:43] of what they've done, what's what's new, what's exciting, you know, um the

[2:48:49] ability for council to go and visit or maybe have a tour. Like I've never been

[2:48:54] on the Thunderbird property. Um they they gave a a a great uh presentation

[2:48:59] recently. I know where they are. um [clears throat] and I'm familiar with

[2:49:04] many many of these organizations. Um I'm

[2:49:08] so so I think that is something that we need to also um have a a better

[2:49:12] understanding. Um one of the questions are is this open to the public. Some

[2:49:18] things are and some things aren't. Most of them are. Um others aren't. Maybe

[2:49:22] because it's a cons conservation zone. I don't really know. Or maybe it's the the

[2:49:27] lay of the land that I'm not sure either. um um security is not the word

[2:49:33] but uh risk various risks um might might be some of those things. However, um the

[2:49:40] social fabric we got a great outpouring from our um our

[2:49:46] um what do we call these um these property owners of you know what it is

[2:49:52] that they actually do for our community. It would cost us a lot of money to have

[2:49:56] a lot of these services. So they are an asset. As far as the school, the school

[2:50:02] building is also an asset. It's also uh was it ever intended to be partially

[2:50:09] commercial and partially um

[2:50:13] uh what's the word? Um

[2:50:19] no no um sorry it's late. Um,

[2:50:26] » so, >> so I'm just thinking about the dollars,

[2:50:28] the dollars and cents. So, we've got people paying a lot more money in part

[2:50:32] of the building, um, say the the full amount for per square footage, right?

[2:50:38] And another part subsidized. That's we're looking for subsidized um, and yet

[2:50:42] making a profit. So, we need to work more on that still. Um, so the school is

[2:50:48] evolving. I mean, compared to where it was two years ago, uh, quite a bit of it

[2:50:52] was empty. So there's a lot of things that will need to be discussed. Uh a lot

[2:50:58] of um things will need to be evolved. I'm just very appreciative that the um

[2:51:05] the longevity of services that the um per permissive tax exemption property

[2:51:10] owners have given us uh as far as services has been amazing because none

[2:51:17] of them get paid. It's all volunteer. It is uh it is what Matosen is based on as

[2:51:23] far as rural honestly can't compare it to Souk. Souk is uh quite a business

[2:51:28] hub. They've they're they're much bigger and and yeah, everything is quite a lot

[2:51:33] different. But uh we do have to have more conversations about some things

[2:51:38] especially with some of the data that you've presented here tonight. But I do

[2:51:43] um and I've written about this in in a news

[2:51:47] article and spoken to many of these individuals and these groups. Uh

[2:51:52] appreciate all the services and the um the work that they do because it's they

[2:51:57] don't they don't get paid but they provide great service to our small

[2:52:01] community. I don't have any other questions just

[2:52:05] suggestions for future um conversations. >> Okay. Councelor Gray.

[2:52:13] » Can I make a motion that we extend the meeting beyond 10 pm?

[2:52:17] » Uh, yep. Go ahead. Uh, motion to extend the meeting beyond 10 p.m. Moved by

[2:52:23] Councelor Gray, second by Council Donaldson. All in favor? Post carried.

[2:52:27] Go ahead. Councelor Gray, did you have any uh questions or comments for uh CFO

[2:52:34] Creek? Yeah, just the notion sort of following

[2:52:38] on comments of um councelor Schukan and Donaldelsson that I think changes to the

[2:52:43] permissive tax exemption uh approach need a process with our

[2:52:48] community rather than us meeting and making a

[2:52:51] determination one evening. Um I'm referring to changing from from the way

[2:52:57] things have been for a very long time. Um we've already had a robust debate

[2:53:02] this year in terms of the community involvement and um the response was

[2:53:07] quite strong. I think the issue still um sits with us though about the total

[2:53:14] value of these um contributions. We heard uh from someone this evening

[2:53:19] and we've heard previously about the value that the community gets from

[2:53:25] government's local government support and I commend you the Victoria

[2:53:29] Foundation report which was shared with all of us um indicating the tremendous

[2:53:35] um value we get when we support community groups.

[2:53:40] Um I think of another example though some

[2:53:44] somewhat different one. It would be very difficult for the citizens of Machosen

[2:53:50] to pull together the kind of money that's been spent by the BC Parks

[2:53:54] Foundation to save some very large acreages.

[2:53:59] Um they're you know protected permanently now. Um

[2:54:04] we couldn't come up with that money but we can come up with a tax exemption for

[2:54:07] those groups. back to my first point. Um, I think of

[2:54:11] the Thunderbird camp where the largest beneficiary of tax exemptions. I think

[2:54:15] it's something like 4,000 young children go through or young and maybe not so

[2:54:20] young children going through that camp every year. Um, so it's a tremendous

[2:54:26] benefit to to young people in our community and beyond. It's also very

[2:54:31] difficult for the YMCA. They may have other resources but that camp I think we

[2:54:37] heard back if if we don't have tax exemptions they have to look to other

[2:54:40] ways of raising money and that I'm afraid may come in the form of logging

[2:54:46] and yet that property is part of mature our tax exemption from my point of view

[2:54:50] is part of our contribution to the sea to see green and blue belt um so I see

[2:54:56] the value there I'm I'm going I'm I'm in favor of continuing um as we have um

[2:55:02] that we give the uh first second and third reading this evening.

[2:55:09] » Thank you. [clears throat] And um I'd like to thank uh Mr. Creek for not only

[2:55:13] this uh report that provided valuable information for council, but also the

[2:55:19] past uh the the past reports that that you've provided. Um I have a number of

[2:55:25] comments, but I thought um I I wanted to ask questions to Mr. Creek regarding our

[2:55:31] current financial picture as well as our picture um after 2030. And I think that

[2:55:39] should frame our discussion. And and at our budget meetings this year, there was

[2:55:45] quite um impassion speeches regarding um being uh um that that other

[2:55:55] members of uh government, provincial, federal are moving into austerity uh

[2:56:01] measures. um that we also have to be really careful with our dollars and uh

[2:56:07] we had conversations about what I considered uh pretty small tuppence but

[2:56:13] was voted down by this council because we were worried about about our fiscal

[2:56:18] constraint. Um here we are giving very generously and it's not our money. We're

[2:56:25] giving generously on behalf of the citizens of Machosen. Although we did

[2:56:30] hear from a lot of groups that they were dissatisfied with the way the permissive

[2:56:36] tax exemptions um conversation unfolded, I did have some comments from some

[2:56:42] citizens saying my taxes are too much for me. I may have to move. Um, I think

[2:56:49] that the some of these groups that have millions of dollars in their coffers and

[2:56:55] they're asked to pay um uh 7,000 a year or uh 4,900 in terms of the BC Parks

[2:57:04] Foundation. Um they do provide benefit and I'm not questioning the benefit that

[2:57:10] all these groups give. They give valuable benefit and we value our

[2:57:15] volunteers. But we also need to look at our finances

[2:57:20] and our financial picture. And while Mr. Cus is um thinking about um his comments

[2:57:27] regarding my questions, I want to just remind everybody that this wasn't a

[2:57:32] sudden decision in the last year. Questions and concerns regarding the

[2:57:37] permissive tax exemptions for nonprofit societies at the district machos was

[2:57:42] first raised by council members at this table at the September 11th 2023

[2:57:49] meeting. So that was we were not even in office one year and questions were were

[2:57:55] raised that was raised by councelor Gray at that September 11th meeting and that

[2:58:00] was in regards to the Victoria Motorcycle Club and his concerns

[2:58:04] regarding this club receiving a permissive tax exemption and that's what

[2:58:10] got the ball rolling. So it's incorrect to say we've been discussing this for a

[2:58:15] year. We've been discussing the permissive tax exemptions since

[2:58:20] September 11th, 2023. Uh, two years later, the discussions of

[2:58:26] the permissive tax exemptions has continued. Discussions or three years

[2:58:31] discussions for the 2026 tax year began on June 25th or sorry, June 2025 with a

[2:58:39] report from our CFO. Uh this was again discussed at another opening meeting on

[2:58:45] July 14th and there were no concerns raised by uh the council that was at the

[2:58:50] table. Okay. So this was 2025. There was five members at the table. Um on

[2:58:57] September 15th, the discussion was brought back to council. Before the item

[2:59:01] was fully introduced, two counselors declared conflicts of interest and

[2:59:06] recused themselves from the entire discussion. Thus there were open

[2:59:10] discussions about permissive tax exemptions for the next year at the mid

[2:59:15] district have been chosen as it relates to what was then the seven nonprofits.

[2:59:20] So that's to give you factual information about how this has unfolded

[2:59:26] since September 11th 2023. Um and then the conflict of interest uh has

[2:59:33] complicated this. I think we should be clear and admit that the conflict of

[2:59:38] interest uh um declarations did complicate the permissive tax

[2:59:42] exemptions. Um regarding my comments regarding uh this uh permissive tax

[2:59:49] exemptions, the overarching for me is our fiscal responsibility. It's not our

[2:59:55] money, it's the taxpayers's money. And I'd like before I conclude my comments,

[3:00:00] I'd like to turn to our CFO to give um him an opportunity to give us a brief

[3:00:06] synopsis of our financial picture now and the comments that he had made

[3:00:12] regarding concerns about 2030 and beyond. Thank you,

[3:00:18] » Mayor Little. It's councelor Gray. Just before that, I' I'd like you. We should

[3:00:23] be dealing with FRA facts as you say >> and I think um

[3:00:27] » could you just wait, Councelor Gray? Um no, I think

[3:00:30] » the CFO is going to speak and then you can speak afterwards. Go ahead, CFO.

[3:00:36] » Councelor Gray, you're out of line and you're out of order. If you can just

[3:00:41] wait for the CFO to give his synopsis. if you can wait until this.

[3:00:48] » It's a point of order. You said something that wasn't accurate about

[3:00:52] myself, and I think that needs to be cleared up. Um, and the the fact of the

[3:00:56] matter is that I raised the issue of the Victoria Motorcycle Club, the

[3:01:01] Thunderbird Camp, and all of the Tree Canopy properties. and council then

[3:01:05] passed a policy to say that we would consider Tree Canopy or approached the

[3:01:11] groups to ask if they're interested in that being part of their arrangements

[3:01:14] with us. But it wasn't um I would did not speak against the motorcycle club

[3:01:18] receiving its thing, but rather whether they would have an interest in doing

[3:01:22] more than um commit to more than just the services they provide. Thank you.

[3:01:28] » Yeah, thank you. You can go back to the tape of September 11, 2023 to find out

[3:01:33] what the real comments were. My recollection was that

[3:01:39] » maybe councelor Gray, >> my recollection is that you spoke

[3:01:47] against the Victoria Motorcycle Club. You had grave concerns about uh whether

[3:01:53] they should be receiving the permissive tax exemptions. we can all go back to

[3:01:57] that council meeting of September 11th and um look at those comments. CFO

[3:02:03] Creek, could you give your comments, please?

[3:02:06] » Through the chair. Thank you. All right. So, for the district uh chosen right now

[3:02:12] for the next five years, right, we got a budgeted increase for RCMP is going to

[3:02:17] be about half a million dollars. um we're going to end up using up our

[3:02:21] police reserve uh by the end of 2029, I believe it was, maybe 2028. Uh so full

[3:02:29] brunt of that tax increase will be coming in. Um we're also going to be

[3:02:33] using up our uh revenue stabilization reserve with

[3:02:38] the estimated loss of our Mary Hillland um in 2028. Those funds are going to be

[3:02:44] extinguished by 2030. Uh and then after that it's more of a what's the province

[3:02:51] going to download onto municipalities again. And so once we've used up these

[3:02:55] reserves um the tax increases are going to be fairly significant. Um especially

[3:03:01] over over the next six years it was going to be close to double digit

[3:03:05] increases every year. Uh and so it's uh something that the district really needs

[3:03:10] to consider on what are we going to do is right cutting tax uh cutting

[3:03:15] expenses, increasing revenues to pay for what's coming down the line. Uh and then

[3:03:20] when you add on the infrastructure deficit that the uh district's facing

[3:03:24] with roads, equipment, buildings, etc. Um anything that happens with the fire

[3:03:29] hall, right, like our building replacement reserve is going to be gone

[3:03:32] with that. probably a good chunk of our general capital reserve unappropriated

[3:03:36] surplus. Um it's all going to be whittleled down quite rapidly. And then

[3:03:41] along with the west parks and wreck uh if we stay a member of that we end up

[3:03:46] doing whatever their master capital plan uh is predicting over the next 5 to 10

[3:03:50] years u the reserve that we have for that is also going to gone and probably

[3:03:55] asked for more. That requisition is going to be increasing significantly as

[3:03:58] well uh because of the operating costs of brand new buildings. So

[3:04:02] [clears throat] a number of impacts that are going to be played out in the next 5

[3:04:06] to 10 years and that's the main concern that I would have long

[3:04:12] term right this fiveyear period that we have right now between now and 2030 got

[3:04:17] enough for capital uh projects uh that are currently planned um and we'll be

[3:04:24] able to cover these taxes again with fairly high tax increases as a

[3:04:29] percentage wise dollar-wise comparable to the other municipalities in the CRD.

[3:04:35] But um as the mayor mentioned, people are feeling the pressure, right? Like

[3:04:41] when I first got here, that's all I heard was taxes were too high. When I

[3:04:44] looked at it, um comparably, they're really not. So, it was really based on

[3:04:49] the people that are um land rich and cash poor, right? Where they bought in a

[3:04:55] long time ago, have houses that are now worth a million plus, right? Average

[3:05:00] value is 1.2. do but they're on a fixed income with a small pension that isn't

[3:05:06] increasing at the cost of living increases. So, uh something to really

[3:05:11] consider on how the district is going to be funding their operations going

[3:05:15] forward. Um as councelor Donaldson mentioned, these groups provide services

[3:05:20] that would cost us a significant amount. We see it in the school, right? The

[3:05:24] district right now is subsidi subsidizing five different event spaces

[3:05:29] in this district, right? The community house, community hall, Mcca, the school,

[3:05:35] and the and the church, right? All five of those um

[3:05:40] buildings rent out to different groups, right? None of them are full 100% of the

[3:05:45] time. So, they're all being subsidized for partial use. And we see on the

[3:05:50] school, right, we're losing six figures a year. And that's because we're

[3:05:54] actually having to pay people, right? These other organizations all rely on

[3:05:57] volunteers. And that's where that great return that

[3:06:02] um organizations get when you give them a dollar, they can turn it into, you

[3:06:07] know, a $1.70. That's based on them not paying anybody,

[3:06:11] right? Unfortunately, the district has to pay their staff to maintain

[3:06:15] operations. School is being run on the side of a couple people's desks right

[3:06:18] now. Um and so we're not maximizing the use of that space.

[3:06:23] But it is it is very costly and so the district does get quite a bit out of

[3:06:28] those groups. But it has I think that good review of what's actually being

[3:06:35] done because everything's just been piled on but no one's taken the broad

[3:06:39] look at everything that's being done in the district and whether or not we still

[3:06:44] need to be subsidizing these places because school was bought back in 2017.

[3:06:49] um wasn't really a business plan in place in order to actually make the

[3:06:53] money. It was just said, "Hey, we're going to break even. Don't worry about

[3:06:55] it." Um that has not taken place. It's taken a lot of work just to get to the

[3:06:59] point where now we're losing $150,000 a year. But um with the number of spaces

[3:07:06] being rented out uh and the size of this district, it's uh something to certainly

[3:07:11] consider as costs are just going to keep escalating, right? Car insurance goes up

[3:07:16] every year, utilities go up every year. we just go up every year supplies

[3:07:22] doesn't matter right and so and with the limited growth in the tax

[3:07:28] [snorts] base here right it's been less than 1% for a quarter century right and

[3:07:33] compared to everywhere else where it's close to 10% right Langford is doing 13%

[3:07:39] a year right they can they can cover off things no problem um councelor Donaldson

[3:07:45] was asking about you know how much are as a percentage, right? 1% is $30,000

[3:07:51] for us. 1% for Victoria is a million bucks, right? So, when they wrote

[3:07:55] [clears throat] their letter saying we're giving $100,000 to this group,

[3:07:58] it's 0.1% of a tax increase for them, right? It's drop in the bucket, right?

[3:08:02] For us, that's three and a half% increase [laughter]

[3:08:05] to meet that. Uh very, very different fiscal reality that faces here. Um, and

[3:08:10] it's something that the chosen was lucky enough um to be able to get away with in

[3:08:15] the 80s, 90s, early 2000s when inflation wasn't that bad. You were getting a good

[3:08:20] return on your on the savings that you did have. Um, but as I showed, I think

[3:08:24] it was last year when we're talking about capital and infrastructure, right?

[3:08:28] Totally switched. Inflation is way higher than what we're earning now with

[3:08:31] the bank. Uh, so we can't just sock away $100,000 and beat inflation on any

[3:08:35] capital project. um it's it's gone unfortunately and now what we're dealing

[3:08:41] with with emergency replacement and that type of thing

[3:08:45] we'll never get there with with what we're earning right now in a bank or

[3:08:49] from our tax base growth there hope that answers our question

[3:08:54] » yeah thank you so [clears throat] I just want to reiterate council it's not it's

[3:08:59] nothing that we've done uh to bring this on that the forecast for 2030 has been

[3:09:06] That's just what has happened. Um, and it's nothing that council has done.

[3:09:11] We've had a very good uh, finance chair um, who has shephered us through the

[3:09:16] finance meetings every year. We've been very very conservative in how we have

[3:09:21] spent money. Um, it's exactly what uh, Mr. Creek is saying. Every cost is

[3:09:28] increasing. The only thing it seems like is not increasing is a revenue coming

[3:09:33] into the district. We will be at a crisis fa phase in 2030 and I started

[3:09:41] talking about this as you will remember in early 2023 when I wanted to set up an

[3:09:46] economic sustainability committee but that wasn't palatable by one member of

[3:09:51] the council and we've never discussed that. We should have had this

[3:09:55] conversation regarding sustainability at the beginning because we were told by

[3:10:00] the province uh in particular that they will be giving out grants but they will

[3:10:06] not be in the future and um I could see it based on what I was hearing uh from

[3:10:12] the other mayors what we're moving towards and I knew our financial

[3:10:17] position as I was a counselor from before regarding the premierive tax

[3:10:23] exemptions. that we're discussing tonight. No doubt all of these group

[3:10:28] provide tremendous value and we appreciate them. Um, but we did receive

[3:10:35] a lot of comments from people saying these groups provide value, but we

[3:10:41] received also other comments saying I'm worried about my taxes. I don't have

[3:10:48] I have a very limited income. I'm worried if we go into the double digit

[3:10:52] whether I'm going to be able to stay in my home. So the money that we're talking

[3:10:57] about is not our money. It's the taxpayers's money and whether it is

[3:11:02] equitable and fair for us to ask taxpayers to contribute to uh a

[3:11:10] municipal tax exemption for some of the groups that have millions of dollars.

[3:11:16] Um uh for instance the um BC Parks Foundation they've they do have when we

[3:11:23] we had those figures I was very shocked how much they really do have in their

[3:11:28] assets. Um not to say that they haven't done good work in retaining property and

[3:11:34] providing uh conservation and environmental values. Absolutely. Um,

[3:11:40] but the question that I ask myself always with these type of questions is,

[3:11:45] is this good for the community? Is this good for the community at large?

[3:11:51] Permissive tax exemptions. And um, I'm hearing concerns from our chief

[3:11:56] financial officer that the long-term picture from it chosen does not look

[3:12:01] well look great. And so I think we need to be very very careful with how we give

[3:12:07] out money. Um um if we don't pass the bylaw um as it sits now, nobody gets

[3:12:14] anything. And that will provide a hardship for for probably not BC Parks

[3:12:19] and maybe not some of these other groups, maybe not the probably not the

[3:12:23] Victoria Motorcycle Club. I'm just surmising. But for sure it will have

[3:12:28] impact on the Anglican Church, um the St. Mary's Church. And I can speak to

[3:12:35] this. It's not my church. I don't attend um their um um services uh but they

[3:12:42] provide valuable benefit to the community at large and so I'm a big

[3:12:47] supporter of them. Um this if we do not give them the tax exemption they are

[3:12:54] going to be in a real crunch. We have elderly gentlemen that are providing

[3:13:00] services at the old St. Mary's Church and they've asked for new volunteers.

[3:13:06] you new backs, uh, new young men, young women that can help them with the

[3:13:11] graveyard, um, upkeep upkeep. And they do that for free on behalf of the

[3:13:16] community. And you can see at at the Spring Liies, we get people from the

[3:13:22] mainland visiting that little church. They've asked for other younger men,

[3:13:27] younger women to help them, and they've received no support. they continue on

[3:13:34] continue on and quite frankly a lot of them are dying off. What are we going to

[3:13:38] do there? Uh we can't afford to pay for a gardener for that. They've provide

[3:13:45] that service. Um so I worry if we don't give the permissive tax exemption

[3:13:51] particularly for the church that that we will um what I think um it was spoken at

[3:14:00] the last meeting or the meeting before that they will be at a crisis and it's

[3:14:05] not my church but I still don't want them to be at a crisis. We want to

[3:14:10] support them as much as possible. Um,

[3:14:15] I spoke in favor of the decisions that we've made previously and I still stand

[3:14:20] by the decisions that we made. Uh, the three of us, there was council Sherry

[3:14:25] EP, councelor Schukan and myself left at the table. I still think we made a good

[3:14:30] decision where we aired and this is my responsibility mostly. Where we aired

[3:14:38] was in not communicating this because we'd been talking about it. so long from

[3:14:44] 2023 to that time when we had the um September 15 2025 meeting that's two

[3:14:51] years later it was irrelevant in our minds but for the community they some of

[3:14:58] them had attended meetings some of them had not attended meetings they weren't

[3:15:02] following it and it looked like it was a sudden decision it wasn't a sudden

[3:15:06] decision it was a decision that was made over two years and it was a decision

[3:15:12] where we did have meetings in June of 2025, July 14th and September 15th when

[3:15:18] all members of the of the uh the council were at that meeting and then there was

[3:15:25] uh declarations of conflicts of interest which left three of us at the table

[3:15:30] holding a bag. And so um that that is just a fact. Um I we weren't clear in

[3:15:39] our communications to the to the community and and that we aired on that

[3:15:44] absolutely and we'll do better in the future. But let's face it, there was a

[3:15:47] lot of fear-mongering going around when the council chambers uh was um filled

[3:15:54] and some of them some of the uh comments were alternate facts. They were not

[3:15:59] actual facts. Um as Mr. Creek has mentioned we are in a tight fiscal

[3:16:05] situation especially after 2030. We've gone from $250,000

[3:16:11] to 400,000 um or almost 4,000 um allowing for the

[3:16:16] PTEES. Some municipalities as is outlined in this report have caps.

[3:16:22] They've had caps on their their what they give in allowance for these

[3:16:28] permissive tax exemptions like souk 1.7 of the property taxes

[3:16:33] » because they've had this kind of a conversation

[3:16:38] » yes what's your what was your point >> we don't have

[3:16:42] » there's no motion on the table >> yeah there's no motion on the table I

[3:16:46] said we were going to have a discussion before we had a a motion on the table

[3:16:50] what was your point your point of order. What is your point?

[3:16:56] » We should have a motion on the table to continue discussing the the issue, I

[3:17:00] believe. >> Yeah. Let's continue having this

[3:17:03] discussion and then we will move to something else. Um so I'll conclude by

[3:17:09] saying that some municipalities um have a different formula. They do

[3:17:15] have this different formula and often if you notice they decide on it at the

[3:17:21] beginning of the term once for the four years and then it's not every year that

[3:17:26] these organizations have to get back and it avoids the situation that we're in

[3:17:32] now which is this is the silly season and like it or not um people also have

[3:17:38] other motives at this time regarding campaigning um whether they're going to

[3:17:43] be elected or not it's it's actually brilliant to bring it in at the

[3:17:47] beginning of council at the term and then for the four years and and I would

[3:17:52] I would suggest we do that if we're so lucky to be at this table again. Um and

[3:17:59] uh let's see what else did I have to say uh regarding that. Um

[3:18:10] yeah it and also we we let's face it we're in a difficult situation now with

[3:18:17] a council of four because if we have a 22 split uh the motion will fail. Okay.

[3:18:24] And that's just a fact with uh councelor stepping away because of of family

[3:18:29] concerns. Um

[3:18:32] yeah, and also the conflict of interests that were declared then not declared and

[3:18:37] then declared again. It's was confusing to the public and we've had two members

[3:18:43] of the public speaking out about the conflict of interests that were declared

[3:18:49] and I think we need clarification on that. And if you declare a conflict of

[3:18:53] interest, as councelor Dawson does every time, she declares a conflict of

[3:18:59] interest and she states a reason. That is your responsibility. That is our

[3:19:04] right and we need to have that conversation as well. So I will um

[3:19:10] conclude my remarks that um what I'm asking what is good for the community at

[3:19:16] this point and uh what is possible for us is that if you need more information

[3:19:24] we could defer this uh to the September 21st meeting for a council uh decision.

[3:19:32] It is getting late. We're all tired. It's 10:30. We've been here since 6. Uh,

[3:19:38] we could defer this. And with that, um, I don't know. Uh, could I get some

[3:19:44] guidance from staff regarding that? Did you want to speak? No. Can I get some

[3:19:50] guidance from staff regarding the, uh, potential to defer this? I'm not trying

[3:19:56] to defer to the decision. I'm trying to get more information for council to make

[3:20:01] that decision. And one of the things we may want to do is because we've had

[3:20:06] conflict of interest declarations before which would put us in a very awkward

[3:20:12] position uh with maybe three council members or even two left at the table

[3:20:18] which would we we couldn't make a decision. Um we need to have that

[3:20:23] conversation. Mr. Creek could you comment on that or

[3:20:28] or Mr. Payet?

[3:20:33] Um through the chair you could table you could table the decision for more

[3:20:38] information. >> Yeah. Would that be beneficial to you

[3:20:42] council members? Councelor Shuken. >> Uh no it it wouldn't be for me. Um I

[3:20:49] again I'm willing to um

[3:20:54] hear more I suppose but uh nothing that I've heard

[3:21:00] will change my view that the best thing to do at this particular juncture is to

[3:21:06] move ahead with the pts in terms of the status quo previous

[3:21:11] status quo but open up this discussion next year in light of the full um you

[3:21:17] know all of the pressures that you outlined the um and also include the

[3:21:21] groups as well. So it's it's a deeper discussion that includes the groups but

[3:21:26] at this juncture um I I'm I'm willing to move ahead with um moving to first,

[3:21:32] second, third reading on the PTS as presented.

[3:21:36] » Okay, let's hear from your council colleagues. Uh council Donaldson, do you

[3:21:41] want some more time to think or are you okay?

[3:21:43] » No, but I do have a question through the chair to the CEO. Y

[3:21:47] » um so if we were to do as um what my council [clears throat] colleague Mr.

[3:21:53] you can hear is suggesting perhaps it's motion one. I'm not sure. Um

[3:22:00] in this list there is one organization that I would [clears throat] have a

[3:22:03] conflict of interest. Would the if we were to

[3:22:09] motion that we accept um all groups in the PTE is that

[3:22:15] um without [clears throat] debating which ones get and don't very similar to

[3:22:20] what we do in a budget where there also might be a conflict of interest on a

[3:22:24] topic or an investment of an asset or such. So my question to you is

[3:22:31] if we do this, if we pass all eight, is it the policy

[3:22:36] we're passing or are we or shall I recuse myself? I'm a bit confused on

[3:22:41] that. >> Um CEO pay question.

[3:22:45] » Yes, great question and >> upfront question. So thanks to the

[3:22:49] counselor for that and uh would recognize that the um decision would be

[3:22:54] based on the overall general policy and uh that you have not discussed specifics

[3:23:00] on your personal conflict. So um that's how we would see that.

[3:23:04] » Okay. Thank you. So it'll depend on which right

[3:23:09] » motion is being made. So, the possibility of deferring or tableabling

[3:23:14] this, the um CFO could restructure potentially the um the wording here in

[3:23:22] terms of the motion and break apart the bylaw. Is that a possibility? CFO Creek

[3:23:30] » through the chair. Correct. [clears throat] I would be able to

[3:23:32] create two different bylaws, three different bylaws, whatever is kind of

[3:23:36] needed. Um just won't be able to do it tonight.

[3:23:39] » Right. And so my my comments regarding tableabling this is to give respect to

[3:23:45] our colleagues that have uh declared a conflict of interest. That is their

[3:23:50] right and it is their responsibility to to adhere to the rules of the

[3:23:55] confidential uh conflict of interest guidelines. But it's it's her right to

[3:24:00] declare that I'm trying to give space and oxygen for that to happen. And if we

[3:24:06] subdivide them then she can she can declare a conflict of interest where she

[3:24:11] has a real conflict of interest not on the over broad arching policy but uh

[3:24:18] specifically if I'm not speaking out of turn uh council Donaldson we're talking

[3:24:23] about the Victoria Motorcycle Club. >> Is that right?

[3:24:26] » Correct. But right now we don't even have a motion on the table. So

[3:24:30] » Right. >> Right. It's hard for me to make this

[3:24:33] decision creating something else that's not written here.

[3:24:36] » Sure. Sure. And that's why I'm suggesting perhaps it would be better

[3:24:40] for us to table this, give the CFO a chance to restructure this, break apart

[3:24:46] the bylaw um to allow for um this. Council Schulen,

[3:24:53] » should we pass a motion >> regarding deferral?

[3:24:57] » Deferral, but also um direction to Mr. Creek to um segment the bylaw to avoid

[3:25:03] any conflict of interest. >> Yeah. I I I don't think we need to pass

[3:25:07] a motion. I think he's got a clear message of what what can happen.

[3:25:12] » Great. >> Yeah. Okay.

[3:25:14] » Okay. >> Well, um would we would we need a um

[3:25:18] motion to defer or we just table it? A motion to table it.

[3:25:22] » U Mayor Little. >> Yes.

[3:25:27] » Yes. Councor Greg, go ahead. Yeah, I had a single question and then

[3:25:31] I'm ready to tackle the motion tonight. Um, and the question was for the C CFO,

[3:25:36] so through the chair. Um, then the Victoria Humane Society

[3:25:42] um last year at about this time a vote was held that granted them a 2026

[3:25:48] premise of tax exemption. And we um because their uh their um

[3:25:55] purpose did not meet any of council's priorities, we asked that they um pursue

[3:26:02] a section 219 covenant to support, you know, getting a permissive tax exemption

[3:26:06] and to give us progress by August of last year. Now, we've heard that the

[3:26:10] Victoria Humane Society, well, they've written us and said they don't want to

[3:26:15] consider such a thing. are they still um or which council priority are they

[3:26:21] meeting I guess is my question in your graph you've got them as eligible and

[3:26:24] I'm not sure how >> through the chair uh so that was that

[3:26:30] was based on uh the council strategic priority regarding environmental and uh

[3:26:36] care and so kind of comes down to the animals that they're taking in

[3:26:43] ends up preventing like uh stray dogs and cats

[3:26:47] from destroying other wildlife, right? I think we've all read about the number of

[3:26:52] cats that have killed millions of birds out there, unfortunately. Um, and so

[3:26:57] it's kind of on on that rain that I took it. Um, so more probably a more liberal

[3:27:03] interpretation than what I was giving it last year. Last year I just looked at it

[3:27:07] and said, "No, this year kind of widened it a bit to say if they

[3:27:14] weren't taking them in, people just let their stray dogs and cats uh and

[3:27:18] proliferate the way that they do um cause more environmental degradation

[3:27:22] than would be preferred.

[3:27:26] » I see. I I hadn't um I don't see it in the same light as you do because you

[3:27:32] know we're we didn't discuss anything like that when we considered our uh

[3:27:36] strategic priorities. >> Okay. Um I just wanted to ask a question

[3:27:42] from uh CFO Creek. My recollection is that the Victoria Humane Society did

[3:27:50] come for originally for the permissive tax exemption uh for the year previous,

[3:27:55] but they didn't follow through on that and we never gave them a permissive tax

[3:27:59] exemption. Is that correct in their first year?

[3:28:03] Or did we? >> Through the chair, I believe like if

[3:28:09] [clears throat] they had applied in 2024, it was it was because it was too

[3:28:12] late when they applied for it when they got

[3:28:15] ended up on title. So, [music] we couldn't give them one in 2024.

[3:28:19] » Yeah. So, it wasn't that we denied them, they they just didn't they they they

[3:28:24] weren't considered. >> Yeah.

[3:28:26] » Yeah. Cal Gray. Okay. So, let's go back to the deferment

[3:28:34] tableling this. Uh that's what I'm suggesting to council.

[3:28:38] » Sorry. If we need a motion to table, I will make that motion um to be brought

[3:28:43] back as soon as possible with the again the segmented um bylaw.

[3:28:48] » Okay, great. So, that's moved by councelor uh Schukan, seconded by I'll

[3:28:54] second that motion. >> Yeah. Okay. And then with that, we can

[3:29:00] allow other uh conversations uh to be had. Perhaps uh Council Donaldson can

[3:29:05] reach out to staff regarding uh the conflict of interest just to make sure

[3:29:10] it's crystal clear regarding your rights and responsibilities. Council Donaldson.

[3:29:15] » Okay. >> Before quoting voting, I had a question.

[3:29:22] » Pardon? >> Before voting, I had a question.

[3:29:27] » Okay. Go ahead. >> Uh through the chair to the CEO. I

[3:29:32] wasn't clear when you responded to councelor Donaldelsson. Were you saying

[3:29:36] that it would be fine if she voted on the motion tonight because it has so

[3:29:40] many pieces to it and so she would not you would not consider that she had a

[3:29:45] conflict to vote on say option one. >> Yeah. Um so counselor it's up to

[3:29:51] counselor Donaldson to decide if she has a conflict or not and to declare

[3:29:58] it and why. So that's her purview. The the um conversation and the dialogue has

[3:30:06] been in general and the policies written and designed so that uh all of

[3:30:13] the um all of the service service clubs or

[3:30:18] whatever um they meet the the general criteria that are listed. they're all in

[3:30:24] general terms and if they meet or don't meet. Um, so it's an overall policy and

[3:30:31] so that's my view and that's how I would consider it. Um, but it's up to to each

[3:30:38] counselor to decide if that if they're still in conflict or not. Um, that's it.

[3:30:43] » Thank you. >> Yeah, I I think that's a really good

[3:30:46] point, Councelor Gray. It is up to the individual council member uh to decide

[3:30:52] whether or not they have a a perceived conflict of interest or an actual

[3:30:57] conflict of interest. And as you'll know, Council Gray, you had a perceived

[3:31:02] or you had a conflict of interest at one time and then you changed it um and said

[3:31:08] you no longer had a conflict of interest even though um you did have a conflict

[3:31:15] of interest regarding the uh lands title office. And so it opens up a huge can of

[3:31:21] worms with you declaring a conflict of interest, then not declaring the

[3:31:26] conflict of interest. And where does that leave us? So in you you have a

[3:31:31] right you have a right to declare a conflict of interest but you have an

[3:31:36] obligation to give us the reason the rationale as councelor Donaldson has

[3:31:42] » consistently given you communicated to us that you had a conversation with a

[3:31:47] lawyer that is not >> telling us what the resolution of that

[3:31:52] conflict of interest is. That's you're telling us a communication piece. So you

[3:31:58] you need to you need to comment regarding having a conflict of interest

[3:32:04] and then not having a conflict of interest and then I don't know what you

[3:32:09] you're planning on doing at this meeting whether you're planning to have a

[3:32:12] conflict of interest or a perceived conflict of interest or no conflict of

[3:32:16] interest. You haven't declared that although councelor Donison has raised

[3:32:21] comments that she may declare a conflict of interest.

[3:32:26] Mayor Little, just to to play that back, um I think you need to be be um fair

[3:32:32] with your counselors. What happened was that I followed precisely the um the

[3:32:38] rules of how this works. I declared a conflict of business. I explained why

[3:32:42] that I was a trustee in the hall. I left the room. I then as per our policy and

[3:32:48] as per the community charter consulted a lawyer. I described that to you and I

[3:32:52] stepped off as a trustee of the Hall which I told you and and I said now I

[3:32:56] can vote on the issues and I think there's not really any confusion there

[3:32:59] when you follow exactly the policies in place. Um if you don't understand them I

[3:33:03] can certainly show you the areas in the community charter and in our own um

[3:33:08] policy book on the on these issues and how counselors are to behave and it's

[3:33:12] not fair for you to tell me that I have a conflict of issues somehow around the

[3:33:16] land titles office. I have no idea what you're talking. That's as as our CEO

[3:33:20] just advised all of council and the public. It's up to the counselor

[3:33:24] themselves to determine whether they're in conflict. You don't tell me if I'm in

[3:33:27] conflict or not. You must >> and I apologize if you think that I'm

[3:33:32] trying to declare asked you to conflict of interest.

[3:33:37] » I completely understand community charter 12 or 224 227 and section 941

[3:33:45] the requirement. I understand the community charter completely, but you

[3:33:50] have a right to declare the conflict of interest, but you also have a

[3:33:56] responsibility not only to us, but to the public who's watching. That's the

[3:34:00] transparency piece. >> Councelor Shuk,

[3:34:04] » we should move on. like it's almost [laughter] 221 and we'd be really awful

[3:34:09] to break our longest meeting record on one of our last meetings in the middle.

[3:34:14] » Okay, so we've got a motion on the table to defer until September 21st.

[3:34:23] [laughter]

[3:34:26] » Sorry, I've got allergies. Okay, I'll call the question on [laughter]

[3:34:32] [cough] on the deferral. All in favor?

[3:34:38] All opposed? That's deferred. Just a moment.

[3:35:04] I'm going to have to take a break for 90 seconds.

[3:38:24] » [snorts]

[3:38:30] » Uh staff, are we ready to move on? >> Okay,

[3:38:36] I apologize for that. I've got terrible allergies regarding the pollen in the

[3:38:40] air. Okay. Um item number 12, other business.

[3:38:46] We've got the progress report from the fireh hall technical team. Progress

[3:38:51] report uh council or sorry CA opt.

[3:39:04] [clears throat] Yeah. Speak speak. Um wasn't really

[3:39:08] planning on speaking to this but I can start off.

[3:39:12] Everybody had a chance to read the progress. We've met number of times um

[3:39:20] and we had an opportunity to introduce the CFO and the fire chief to the

[3:39:25] technical team and um they've been touring the facility

[3:39:32] [clears throat] and um we have to we still have not signed a service

[3:39:37] agreement, but we're closing in I would say on the service agreement um to make

[3:39:44] sure we're all um properly governed and insurance is in place. I'll be bringing

[3:39:49] that to council um once that's done.

[3:39:55] Um and uh we look forward to their good

[3:39:59] hard work. So questions.

[3:40:06] Okay. Um [clears throat] do we have any uh comments from

[3:40:12] committee members?

[3:40:16] Thanks. >> Well, first

[3:40:19] yeah, Council Donaldson, then councelor Shukin and Councelor Gray. Go ahead.

[3:40:24] » Thank you very much. I really appreciate the um this report and the layout uh

[3:40:31] specifically the guiding u principles um and the timeline and how quickly

[3:40:36] everything has uh taken place. Each member clearly has a task to do. Um and

[3:40:44] involving uh our staff has been obviously paramount in this and will be

[3:40:50] going forward as well. Um I was surprised by only really one thing and

[3:40:54] that was that we have six existing mutual aidus. Um I wasn't aware of that.

[3:40:59] I know at this table we signed off one with uh Cwood about two years ago. I

[3:41:04] haven't seen anything with the Langford one. It's now fully um manned at their

[3:41:10] station, number two station. So, so that's uh interesting. I'd like to learn

[3:41:14] a little bit more about that going forward. Um that's that's a minor detail

[3:41:18] as to what they're doing, but it is uh significant. Um I think I've highlighted

[3:41:23] everything here, so I'm not going to speak to all my highlights, but uh very

[3:41:27] pleased with the uh progress report. Looking forward uh to the next one and

[3:41:32] getting their service agreement in place, too. Thank you.

[3:41:36] Kelsea Shuk, >> I wonder if I could ask a question of

[3:41:40] the representatives. So, one of one of the intriguing um well, first of all,

[3:41:45] thank you for your work and reporting. >> Mr. Smurfett, could you come to the

[3:41:49] microphone, please? >> Sure.

[3:41:52] » Okay. >> Um

[3:41:57] Okay. So, thank you so much for the work in the report. Um

[3:42:02] and again, yeah, all the back and forthing with um I understand uh I think

[3:42:07] there's been also a meeting with the fire chief as well. So, one of the

[3:42:11] intriguing parts of the report for me comes under the apparatus bay and it

[3:42:16] says the team proposes to fully understand the safety related issues to

[3:42:21] determine what options might be considered to solve these. And I think

[3:42:23] we're talking about the decontamination, the ventilation,

[3:42:27] uh movement around trucks, etc. Unless these can be solved, it is of no use to

[3:42:33] investigate the structural issues. Can you reflect on that and expand on that a

[3:42:38] little bit? >> Um, yeah, sure. Uh, when we looked at

[3:42:45] the lists that had been compiled of previous reports, we we we tried to wrap

[3:42:49] our hand heads around that. Um, we first tried one approach and that didn't gel

[3:42:57] with us. So we we we structured it differently. We we saw that we really

[3:43:02] have two big issues to grapple with and a couple of smaller ones. We put those

[3:43:08] aside and said okay so what do we have? We have all these safety related issues

[3:43:13] and we have structural related issues. Um there have been in the past a number

[3:43:19] of calls to say oh well you can you can fix that with steel, you can fix it this

[3:43:24] way, you can fix that way. that may be so um but there's no use going down that

[3:43:30] rabbit hole if we're blocked by the safety items. Um so we said okay we got

[3:43:37] to look at these safety items first we need to understand them. Um we had a a

[3:43:42] great conversation a longer conversation with the chief and we understood all

[3:43:47] those safety items and we now need to take those away and say well is is there

[3:43:51] something one can do about that? Um, if there is, we can consider the second

[3:43:57] part. If there isn't, it's maybe a bit of a showstopper. It's It's just where

[3:44:02] we are. We haven't made a decision anyway at this stage.

[3:44:08] » We have made a decision. We haven't made a decision on making a recommendation

[3:44:11] yet.

[3:44:16] » Mr. Smurfett, can you just repeat that in the microphone so our council

[3:44:20] colleague can hear? We haven't made a decision on making a recommendation

[3:44:26] to council. >> Okay.

[3:44:28] » It's very clear to everyone, I'm sure, that we're not making any decision and

[3:44:32] we we're not decision makers as far as what goes ahead and doesn't make. We're

[3:44:37] just a advisory group to uh provide technical

[3:44:43] direction if you will to the next step in this project. Right.

[3:44:47] » Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you.

[3:44:51] Okay. Yep. You you can you can sit down. Thank you. I appreciate that.

[3:44:57] [clears throat] U did you have any other questions,

[3:45:00] councelor Shukan? >> Um no, but I I um that was the one that

[3:45:04] stuck out for me, but I do appreciate it. Sounds like you're taking a very

[3:45:07] methodical and objective approach um and digging

[3:45:12] into the issues. Yeah. So, thank you. Yeah.

[3:45:14] » Great. >> Councelor Gray.

[3:45:19] » Yeah. I just want to say I like the methodical approach and the clarity. Um

[3:45:23] I found it to be the most satisfactory report and was pleased to receive it and

[3:45:26] read it and I want to thank the team for their work. Um and I look forward to the

[3:45:31] next report. Thank you.

[3:45:36] » Okay. Thank you. Um my comments, you know, I've I've changed my mind um quite

[3:45:41] a few times back and forth um after reviewing our decision to engage the

[3:45:46] technical team. Um, and with this report, I have some concerns. Um, for

[3:45:52] instance, it seems to me that um, they're re-examining space application,

[3:45:58] the apparatus b issues, the fleet requirements, and the workflow. This was

[3:46:04] already done in the feasibility study provided by JDA architects. So, they're

[3:46:10] rehashing that. Why have we got a group of volunteers who in their own um

[3:46:19] capacity in their former jobs um and and none of these individuals have current

[3:46:26] seals of approval for engineers? Why are we asking a group of volunteers

[3:46:33] to give direction not to council, they're giving direction to our CEO? and

[3:46:39] and that brings up issues to me in terms of good governance. So these meetings

[3:46:44] are behind closed doors where council is not viewing them and the public is not

[3:46:50] viewing what is being discussed at that meeting. So we're allowing a volunteer

[3:46:55] group to do things that we're not allowed to do. We have to have the

[3:47:00] public watching us. So, I don't think this is good governance and I don't

[3:47:05] think it's good for our CEO to be directed by a group of volunteers. Yes,

[3:47:10] they're not providing they're not asking for a fee, but they have cost the

[3:47:15] district already. There was a week's worth of effort of the CFO or sorry this

[3:47:21] the CFO partly, but the CEO and our legislative clerk. So, that was a week's

[3:47:28] worth of work. that is that that is time that they didn't have for other

[3:47:33] activities. So that has cost the district. Um the uh they're correcting

[3:47:40] the minor uh discrepancies in a completed professional architectural

[3:47:45] study. I don't think that's role a role for volunteers. uh proposing to expand

[3:47:51] scope to all district buildings within 200 meters school community house EOC um

[3:47:57] which was never part of the fireh hall original mandate uh proposing to

[3:48:02] re-examine whether the apparatus bay can be retained uh skyline engineering

[3:48:07] answered this not only once but twice. So these are professionals that have

[3:48:13] already given written assessments and now volunteers who had great careers and

[3:48:20] had were um um what's the term they were they they were engineers with their

[3:48:27] seals of approval that they no longer hold. um we're asking them to

[3:48:33] re-evaluate what we've already paid for professional opinions and so that brings

[3:48:40] up concerns for me. We've also got an additional member of the team that we

[3:48:45] didn't hear about before and plus we were never allowed to vet the team with

[3:48:50] our our uh fireh hall steering committee that came to council. We decided who was

[3:48:57] going to be on that committee. that that is good governance. We gave

[3:49:03] them a terms of reference. We gave them what their scope of practice would be

[3:49:08] and we decided who was on the committee. We didn't decide on this group. They

[3:49:12] came forward and they added an additional member. No, Gary. Uh I'll

[3:49:19] give you an opportunity later. Okay. >> Yeah. I I will give you an opportunity

[3:49:25] at in a [clears throat] moment. Okay. Mr. Murph

[3:49:30] um at the last council meeting um it uh the council stated the next steps in the

[3:49:36] community needs assessment. Um that's the correct next step. Okay. Um what a

[3:49:43] community needs assessment actually is it's it's a formal professional

[3:49:48] delivered study. It's distinct from the feasibility study work and it defines

[3:49:54] what the new facility um must accomplish from the service delivery uh in terms of

[3:50:00] population growth, response standards, the service demand, the risk assessment.

[3:50:06] Um it's a document that uh the grant the granting agencies uh require and in BC

[3:50:13] it's delivered by firms like um um Firewise for instance. we heard about

[3:50:19] them in the in the last term. Um Dave Mitchell and Associates. So a lot of

[3:50:24] what they're um responding to has already been

[3:50:30] completed by professionals that this council has given the authorization to

[3:50:36] pay for those. So we've got paid consultants who have given us

[3:50:41] professional reports that is now being reassessed by volunteers in our

[3:50:46] committee, our community. And I don't think that's a good use of volunteers,

[3:50:51] but also a good use of our staff time. And it's not good governance because

[3:50:56] good governance would be allowing the fireh hall steering committee to

[3:51:00] continue on in their work. What has happened is this technical team has

[3:51:05] supplanted and and sort of displaced the fireh hall steering committee and meet

[3:51:11] the the committee and they're feeling it and they've said to us why we were

[3:51:17] appointed to this body. Why aren't we meeting to discuss this and move along

[3:51:23] in the fireh hall debate? Why have we been disregarded and we've taken um up

[3:51:29] this new group and they're reassessing them some things that um that have

[3:51:36] already been accomplished and completed. We have the fire fireh hall feasibility

[3:51:41] study completed by JDA architects. They've done fire halls throughout BC,

[3:51:48] including Central Sanage, which was completed in 2018

[3:51:52] by this architect. Um, which has all of the requirements that we need. It's more

[3:51:59] grandiose, yes, but it could be scaled to our community. and JDA architects

[3:52:06] that we contracted to give us that feasibility

[3:52:12] study completed that central Sanich fireh hall and we should go and look at

[3:52:16] it really it it addresses a lot of the issues that we have been grappling with

[3:52:21] and I suggest we do that in short order within the next couple of weeks staff

[3:52:25] and council go for for um uh a visit there um [clears throat]

[3:52:32] to to continue the two seismic assessments done by skyline engineering

[3:52:37] that was in 2022 2025 the existing app apparatus bay is 433% of the current

[3:52:46] code requirement the up >> moment of order mayor mayor little

[3:52:51] » yes >> did you have comments on the actual

[3:52:54] topic under discussion or do you just want to cite a lot of past work you did

[3:52:58] vote in favor of directing the co to engage the proposed volunt firehouse

[3:53:01] technical team I recall >> yeah I did. I did. And as I explained at

[3:53:06] the beginning, I've had reservations and I don't think this is good governance.

[3:53:11] » So, I'm going to continue. I didn't interrupt you while you were talking.

[3:53:16] And I would >> I would ask you to be respectful and not

[3:53:19] interrupt me. >> And so, I'll carry on.

[3:53:23] » I I'll carry on, Counselor Gray. >> I'll carry on. Counselor Gray. So the

[3:53:31] hazardous material survey by the AIC um environmental 2022 there's no asbestous

[3:53:38] for instance that doesn't need to be addressed that has already been

[3:53:42] addressed um the six layout options developed uh and the preferred option of

[3:53:47] option 1A the new build on the adjacent ALR site um is another example the

[3:53:54] highle cost analysis has been completed the mutual aid reviewed has been

[3:53:59] complete did the technical team uh just redid this and got the same answer. Now

[3:54:05] what is that? What is the utility of that? Um they're reviewing what has

[3:54:11] already been completed and by qualified professionals that we paid for it.

[3:54:17] They're meeting behind closed doors and directing our CEO. As a council, to me,

[3:54:25] that is not good governance. As vice chair of the CRD and chair of our

[3:54:31] governance and first nations committee, I see this as not good governance. I

[3:54:37] don't think I will not speak in favor of this. I've I've Yes, councelor Gray's

[3:54:43] right. I did speak and I voted for it, but I've had grave reservations since.

[3:54:51] Mr. Smurfett, I said that I would give you an opportunity. Did you wish to

[3:54:55] speak at this time?

[3:55:00] Thank you very much, Madame Mayor. >> Uh,

[3:55:05] some of the comments you've made regarding the people who formed this

[3:55:10] team, I found personally disparaging. >> Okay.

[3:55:13] » You've received a copy of my resume. You know that I've been project manager on

[3:55:18] many projects including most recently the sewage treatment plant and

[3:55:23] collection facility in souk which we brought in under budget and on time.

[3:55:28] » That's right. >> And

[3:55:30] » but I wasn't speaking towards the project management. I was speaking to

[3:55:34] the what what the the engineering component because on the fire at the

[3:55:40] fireh hall steering committee we do have a structural engineer. That's what I was

[3:55:45] pointing to. I'm not pointing to your project management, but but you're not

[3:55:49] asked to be project managers here, Mr. Smurfett. You're you have been tasked

[3:55:54] and you have been asked you as a little Sorry, you did ask Mr. Point of order.

[3:56:01] » Okay, go ahead, Mr. Murph. >> I I'm sorry. I don't see any sense in me

[3:56:04] continuing to speak because I just started trying to explain and you jumped

[3:56:08] in and I just feel if I continue, you know, [snorts] I'm going to lose it

[3:56:14] because I don't I don't need no we're all volunteers.

[3:56:20] I was a professional engineer since 1974.

[3:56:23] I cancelled my professional stamp about five years ago because I didn't want to

[3:56:30] take any more courses to show that I was capable. The other gentlemen are that

[3:56:35] way. We have a a deputy captain from the Sanage Fire Department on our team.

[3:56:41] We're not our [clears throat]

[3:56:45] work is based on what we submitted to you to this council. Uh we presented our

[3:56:50] first report. If you and this council and the CIO feel that we're wasting our

[3:56:57] time, then tell us and we'll we'll leave Dodge and let you continue on at the

[3:57:01] same rate that's gone on. But uh I read through this $23.5 million proposal and

[3:57:09] I don't see where we need to have facilities for

[3:57:14] refugees or battered women or that in the fire hall and that I mean we're

[3:57:19] trying to bring some reality to the situation and and if you don't want that

[3:57:23] fine tell us to leave Dodge and we will. Thank you very much. Good evening.

[3:57:29] » I move receipt of the report. Second.

[3:57:35] » Uh, I didn't hear that motion. If you can repeat that.

[3:57:40] » I move receipt of the progress report from the fireh hall technical team.

[3:57:47] » Okay. And that was seconded by councelor Schukan. Do you wish to speak to that,

[3:57:52] Mr. M uh councelor Greg? I think it's a fine report and I

[3:57:58] appreciate the work being done and I'm uh would like to move on. Thank you.

[3:58:03] » Thank you. Go ahead, Councelor Gray. Councelor Donaldson.

[3:58:07] » No. Um I will just speak out. I don't think this is good governance. I

[3:58:12] appreciate the work of the volunteers and I appreciate their sentiment. I

[3:58:17] wasn't speaking disparagingly about their project management. I all I'm

[3:58:22] saying is they've displaced the fireh hall steering committee which was good

[3:58:28] governance. That was a committee that we all vetted and is waiting and standing

[3:58:33] by to help. This has surpped or or pushed aside the fireh hall steering

[3:58:40] committee and I don't think that is respectful. I wish some of them were at

[3:58:45] this meeting. And I I do have grave concerns about

[3:58:52] uh even though they're they're valuable that they're meeting behind closed doors

[3:58:59] in their discussions and they're meeting with RCAO behind closed doors. As a

[3:59:05] council, we're not seeing that. We get the report, yes, but it's that

[3:59:10] transparency piece. The public hasn't been able to weigh in and see what

[3:59:15] they're talking about. We haven't been able to weigh in and see what they're

[3:59:19] talking about. So, I will vote in against receiving the report.

[3:59:26] » Okay. >> Well, I'll call then all in favor

[3:59:29] » that here to look at and that's the report. The public can see it. Thank

[3:59:34] you. >> I didn't hear that but I couldn't

[3:59:37] understand. Let's call the question. All in favor of receipt.

[3:59:43] Councelor Shukin, Councelor Donaldson.

[3:59:48] Anybody else? And I'm voting against it. Um, Councelor

[3:59:55] Gray, are you voting in favor or against?

[3:59:59] » As a mover of the motion, I'm voting in favor.

[4:00:01] » In favor. So, that motion passes. Okay. Thank you.

[4:00:06] Okay. Moving back to our uh council agenda.

[4:00:15] Go ahead. Moved by councelor Shukin to adjourn.

[4:00:19] Seconded by councel Dalton. All in favor? Post carried. Thank you.

Council Meeting - 13 Jul 2026

Transcript