[7:50] Yeah, I'm gonna call to order

[7:50] the Charterview Committee

[7:54] meeting. Today is Thursday,

[7:56] August 14th, 2025. The time is

[7:59] 7:00 p.m. It's actually 7:03

[8:02] p.m. sorry. I'll call

[8:05] attendance Ian Goslin is not

[8:07] present. Sharon Pollard not

[8:10] present. Dennis Cesario here.

[8:14] Oleni Verramos here Jennifer

[8:18] Canan here John Cummings not

[8:21] present. and Steve Sava here So

[8:24] we do have a quorum of 4. OK,

[8:31] let the record show that Sharon

[8:33] Pollard is now here. OK, next

[8:39] up, we need acceptance of the

[8:41] agenda, so move. 2. Yeah, we

[8:44] have motion by Jennifer,

[8:47] seconded by Olenni and any

[8:49] discussion. hearing none, all

[8:52] in favor, opposed? The ayes

[8:55] have it unanimously. Public

[8:58] participation, we have nobody

[8:59] present. OK, next item is, uh,

[9:03] we had a few questions that we

[9:05] put before the solicitor. um so, listen, I'm gonna pass this

[9:10] over to you. can't You have

[9:23] your my. I did give you

[9:25] recommendations, I think, 37

[9:27] and 28. So you had asked, we

[9:34] were, uh, last time discussing

[9:37] the temporary absence of the

[9:39] mayor. Yes. I will do my best.

[9:43] Um, last time we were, we were

[9:47] discussing the section 37

[9:49] temporary absence of the mayor.

[9:51] um, and we had discussions

[9:53] about how to structure that so

[9:55] that somebody could work

[9:57] remotely for a specific period

[9:59] of time, um, but, but that that

[10:01] would be limited. so I had um

[10:04] come up with some language. um

[10:07] for the consideration of the

[10:08] committee, um I think I passed

[10:10] out copies of it last time, but

[10:12] I'll read this the suggested

[10:14] language. Section 37 temporary

[10:16] absence of the mayor, acting

[10:17] mayor, so long as the mayor is

[10:19] able to discharge the duties of

[10:20] the office, they may be absent

[10:22] from the city or work remotely

[10:24] outside City Hall for a period

[10:26] of time not to exceed 7

[10:28] calendar days. On the 8th

[10:29] calendar day that the mayor is

[10:30] absent from the city or absent

[10:32] from City Hall, the acting

[10:33] mayor as designated by the

[10:35] council, shall assume the

[10:37] duties of mayor during the

[10:39] mayor's absence any time if the

[10:41] mayor is incapacitated mentally

[10:42] or physically and unable to

[10:44] fulfill the duties of their

[10:45] office. Now this is the part

[10:47] you'll have to decide what you

[10:48] wanna do as determined by a 2/3

[10:50] majority vote of the council,

[10:51] the acting mayor will assume

[10:52] the duties of the office in the

[10:54] mayor's absence and until they

[10:55] are able to return or a vacancy

[10:57] in the office is declared by a

[10:58] 2/3 majority vote of the full

[11:00] council and the offices filled

[11:01] as provided in Section 38. The

[11:04] powers of the acting mayor, the

[11:05] essentially the same. Obviously

[11:12] open to debate and your

[11:13] discretion as to whether you

[11:15] want to do that. We were just

[11:16] trying to figure out to

[11:18] separate the, um. like the

[11:21] mental and physical incapacity

[11:23] piece, um, it gets a little

[11:24] dicey as to who's going to

[11:25] decide that and when it will.

[11:27] happen um so I leave that to

[11:32] your discretion, so you know

[11:34] what I'd recommend is, um, I'm

[11:37] on and um the city solicitor,

[11:41] the, the, uh, section C, where

[11:43] would you recommend that to go?

[11:46] Um so what section are we

[11:51] talking about now? Uh, you gave

[11:53] us a form defining the city

[11:56] solicitor's role recommending

[11:57] that that's, that's already in

[11:59] section 28, so it just changes

[12:01] the language that's it's in 28C,

[12:04] so it just modifies that

[12:05] language a little bit. I did

[12:07] hand that around as well,

[12:08] something for you to uh

[12:10] consider. I was asked to come

[12:11] up with some language there to

[12:12] clarify some of those issues,

[12:13] but certainly at the discretion

[12:14] of the committee whether they

[12:16] agree with that

[12:17] characterization or not. OK, so

[12:19] what I'm gonna recommend is, uh,

[12:21] we have. 37, we have 28, we

[12:24] have 33, that's since we just

[12:27] got these from you, perhaps we

[12:30] should just move on and not

[12:33] address these today. I'm gonna

[12:34] ask Lisa to email these 3

[12:36] documents to the whole

[12:37] committee. So we have some time

[12:39] to read through it and prepare

[12:40] for it for the next meeting. Is

[12:41] that all right with everyone?

[12:45] Yes You know what, there was

[12:50] also section 37 that was given

[12:52] out last week. So I'm gonna ask

[12:54] you to email everything out. OK,

[12:56] go ahead copy. Oh, he's gonna

[12:58] copy it. Good. And, and then I

[13:00] also, um, just wanna bring

[13:03] Sharon and that's it because

[13:05] Sherman wasn't here, um. I had

[13:09] distributed, um, a piece of

[13:11] paper that I think we should

[13:13] add to the charter under under

[13:17] maybe right underneath the city

[13:18] solicitor because it would be

[13:19] for the council and it would

[13:20] and it's in the municipal, it's

[13:23] in the municipal code and. um

[13:25] Paul and the chairman Ron Marcy

[13:28] had brought it in front of the

[13:29] council. The council tabled it,

[13:31] um, as an ordinance, and it's

[13:33] good, but it should be in the

[13:35] charter because the ordinance

[13:37] was made after the charter was

[13:39] made when we only had one

[13:41] attorney, one accountant, one

[13:42] clerk. It, it's, it's it has to

[13:45] be done that the Department of

[13:48] Law has its own section in our

[13:52] new charter that we're going to

[13:53] be. presenting to the council.

[13:55] It's just so important, it

[13:57] needs it needs to be in there.

[13:58] And Paul, like I said, had this

[14:01] ordinance. I had. taken it and

[14:03] narrowed it a little bit more

[14:05] so that it would fit in the

[14:06] charter. I passed it out and I

[14:08] also showed um Paul and I said

[14:12] I wanna wait till you get here

[14:13] because I know you had a

[14:16] concern about the, the law

[14:18] department and,, and, and, and

[14:19] it's only fair for you to see

[14:20] what you know, I would like to

[14:22] see in the charter for once and

[14:24] for all. We don't have to

[14:25] discuss it, but I want to make

[14:26] sure you get a copy of that,

[14:27] but I think at the next meeting

[14:29] so we can get past this, we

[14:31] could, we should look at it and

[14:33] add the Department of Law. OK,

[14:34] I have a question, Jen. So is

[14:36] that uh, your recommendation,

[14:39] the solicitor gave a section

[14:42] something that's good that can

[14:43] be in the solicitor to describe

[14:44] that, but the Department of Law

[14:46] will talk about what the um if

[14:48] you, if you look at it, it,

[14:49] it's better to for all of us to

[14:51] look at everything that I wrote.

[14:53] Paul will kind, will,, will,, reduce it if necessary,

[14:58] but it needs to be just like

[14:59] what we did with 278. When we

[15:01] bought Maggie in, we got rid of

[15:03] the accountant. It was

[15:05] considered the auditor of the

[15:06] account in, in, in the charter

[15:08] and we replaced it with the law.

[15:11] and it's a you know, so when a

[15:12] council says, well, can we call

[15:14] her? It's in there. It's, it's, it's doesn't have

[15:17] to ask me, doesn't have to ask

[15:20] anybody, just has to read the

[15:21] whoever has a concern will read

[15:23] the charter, and it will

[15:24] dictate what the job is and

[15:25] what the responsibilities of

[15:27] the council if they want

[15:29] something from um the castle.

[15:31] It is no longer their employee,

[15:33] but it gives them a guide.

[15:35] That's what I want for this, OK?

[15:37] I want a guide in here and

[15:41] basically the municipal code is

[15:42] fine, but it can get changed

[15:44] and it's just too important

[15:45] that I think it needs to be in

[15:47] our charter. So that's, that I

[15:48] don't wanna, you know, spend

[15:49] all night. Can you, can you

[15:52] email that to Lisa and I'm

[15:54] gonna give her these documents,

[15:56] and I'm gonna ask Luisa to send

[15:58] out that and all of these to

[15:59] the committee, and these will

[16:00] be discussing at the next

[16:02] meeting. I think that would be

[16:02] a great idea. Will put time

[16:03] together to go through all this.

[16:05] Yeah. Uh, you, you. No, one

[16:17] more try. There you go. There

[16:18] we go. um, because I'm not a

[16:21] fan of load loading things into

[16:23] the charter that maybe

[16:24] shouldn't be in the chart, so

[16:25] I'd love the opportunity to

[16:26] look at it. Yes. Thank you. OK,

[16:29] so at that point, why don't we

[16:32] move on then and um. uh, the

[16:37] next would be to begin the 2nd

[16:39] round of chapter 4. and 5 at

[16:43] this point. So if we go to

[16:44] chapter 4. again, I know that

[16:49] we've had, um, you know,

[16:51] vacations and everything and

[16:53] once we get through, my, my

[16:55] thought, and you can tell me

[16:56] what you wanna do, my thought

[16:58] is once we finish the 2nd

[16:59] reading of this charter. then

[17:02] we send what we think is

[17:03] complete to the call-in center.

[17:05] Let them go through it, invite

[17:07] them to that meeting and then

[17:10] we'll just get their

[17:11] recommendations for the whole

[17:12] thing. So we're at chapter 41

[17:15] right now. OK, so let's go down

[17:18] chapter 4, section 1. Do we

[17:21] have any, uh, thoughts on that?

[17:24] I do have one, if anyone. OK,

[17:28] I'm gonna, uh section 41B,

[17:34] eligibility. This is the school

[17:36] committee that we're, uh,

[17:37] covering in this chapter. So I

[17:39] think that we should go to go

[17:43] back to chapter 2-1B. and

[17:47] that's how we discussed the

[17:48] eligibility of the city council.

[17:51] and I think that we should take

[17:53] that same wording. and let me

[17:56] just find it 2 1B. At least the

[18:01] first section of it where it

[18:03] should say, only voters who at

[18:07] all times during their term of

[18:09] office shall be and remain

[18:10] residents of the city of. of

[18:12] the city shall be eligible to

[18:15] hold the office of City council

[18:18] and leave it at that. So I'm

[18:21] sorry? I'm sorry, school com it

[18:25] says counsel. I thought I was

[18:26] being smart by changing it. uh,

[18:28] of school committee So, um, I'd

[18:33] like someone to make a motion

[18:34] if, if everyone's OK with that.

[18:36] Only voters who at all times

[18:38] during their term of office.

[18:40] shall be and remain residents

[18:42] of the city. says again, shall

[18:45] be eligible. to hold office of

[18:49] the school committee. so the

[18:51] same language that we the same

[18:54] language from section 21B,

[18:56] except, you know, stop where it

[18:57] goes on to a member of the city

[18:59] council can move from district

[19:00] to district because that

[19:01] doesn't apply. I'll make that

[19:03] motion OK. Do we have a second?

[19:05] I'll make that motion. We have

[19:07] a motion to say any discussion?

[19:11] OK, then, if not, uh, we'll

[19:13] close the discussion all in

[19:15] favor. I oppose the ICE have it

[19:17] unanimously. so that will mean

[19:20] if somebody moves they're out

[19:24] If they move out of the city,

[19:26] then obviously they have to

[19:26] give up their position. and or

[19:31] if they deregister from voting.

[19:35] If they want you guys to speak

[19:37] what says voters, so you, you

[19:39] have to be a registered voter,

[19:41] so. yeah, well that's what we, did in Section 21. Do you

[19:45] see a problem with that? I'm

[19:46] just saying so people know

[19:47] that's what it's gonna be. So

[19:49] if somebody's. no, no, I'm, I'm

[19:53] just saying we're just, yeah,

[19:54] that's right. I don't see any

[19:55] problem with it. I'm just just.

[20:01] domicile is basically a place

[20:03] where you reside and, and plan

[20:05] to stay there permanently. and,

[20:07] you know, so you have to

[20:09] sometimes they look at voter

[20:10] rolls, they look at if you pay

[20:13] taxes, rent, um, but it, it's a

[20:16] place where you intend to to

[20:19] remain permanently. I think

[20:20] you've defined it as where you

[20:22] rest your head, uh, for more

[20:24] than 6 months or something, but.

[20:26] it's, well, I mean, there's

[20:27] nothing wrong with this, but.

[20:35] you gotta, uh, you mute it

[20:37] again. You still didn't do it.

[20:46] You gotta make sure it's green.

[20:49] Should be green, you go. Um,

[20:51] you know, in theory, they, they

[20:53] could have a house here and

[20:54] move out and say that they, I

[20:56] don't know. Does domicile say

[20:58] that you have to actually

[20:59] reside there every day. It's

[21:01] kind of a legal concept. It's, residence plus intent to

[21:06] remain indefinitely. So it

[21:08] becomes a little hard to. I

[21:10] mean. I, I wasn't making a

[21:12] judgment as to whether voter

[21:14] was good or bad. That's

[21:16] something that's easy to verify,

[21:17] right? We just, you look and

[21:20] you're either registered voter

[21:21] or you're not. If you're not,

[21:22] you either have to be if you

[21:23] want to serve. or not. OK,

[21:27] thank you. OK. But in other

[21:32] communities like this, this

[21:33] language now will say at all

[21:35] times. So in other places.

[21:38] there's different language in

[21:39] their charter. It might say, uh,

[21:41] if you're elected but you're

[21:42] removed from the district, you

[21:43] can fill out your term but you

[21:45] can't run again. This will say,

[21:47] this says. the minute you're

[21:48] out of town you're out. Well,

[21:50] if you're a school committee

[21:52] member, I'm not saying that it should be that way. I, I don't disagree. I'm just

[21:57] saying that will be the effect

[21:59] if you're no longer living in

[22:01] the town, even in the middle of

[22:03] your term, it terminates your

[22:05] office. I mean, now of course

[22:07] there'll be disputes about that,

[22:09] but. that's the idea, uh, the

[22:11] intent behind it, that if

[22:12] you're no longer living here,

[22:13] you should be off. All right,

[22:15] so we voted on that. We'll move

[22:18] on to Section 4-2 Organization.

[22:21] Any issues with A or B or? Just

[22:27] have Lisa change the word

[22:29] chairman to president. OK, Vice President, because that's

[22:33] what we had decided throughout

[22:34] the whole document. So anywhere

[22:36] in, in 4 where it says chair,

[22:40] it will say president. OK, and

[22:41] vice chair would be vice

[22:43] president, OK. Now, um, and

[22:46] again, the mayor shall serve,

[22:48] shall be eligible to serve as

[22:49] an officer. or an officer, um

[22:53] so I would just point out

[22:55] there's a, there's a conflict

[22:57] here. that you might want to

[22:59] reconcile, so in 41, it says

[23:02] that the mayor shall also serve

[23:04] as the chairman of the school

[23:05] committee. and then in this

[23:07] section it says that there

[23:08] shall be. uh an election or

[23:12] organized from among the

[23:13] members.. Choose a chairman and

[23:14] vice chairman, so. you may

[23:16] wanna Oh, is it? OK. You mean

[23:22] it was crossed out 41841. Right

[23:29] So the question here is, if I

[23:31] don't know if we did that, it's

[23:32] not corrected so we can, we can,

[23:35] if someone wants to. if someone

[23:38] wants to remove the that night

[23:42] when we talked about the

[23:43] section, so I don't think I

[23:45] don't have a recollection. I

[23:46] think we actually decided on it.

[23:47] I, I think we did. but I, I, I

[23:50] don't think we think the two

[23:51] mayors because I was on. the, last committee and I I

[23:57] voted because we had people who

[23:59] actually came to the meeting,

[24:01] who was on the school committee,

[24:02] and they asked us that they

[24:03] would prefer that the chair not

[24:09] be the mayor, but we have two

[24:11] sitting mayors here, and I

[24:12] think they gave a very good

[24:15] argument in my opinion, hearing

[24:16] nothing, we're a whole new

[24:18] group just because one group

[24:19] did something and the fact that

[24:21] they said that they were

[24:23] running the city, you know, as

[24:24] the mayor. I supported that and

[24:28] I, and we did make the decision.

[24:29] I think we took a vote and it

[24:32] passed that that the um that

[24:35] the mayor would be the chair.

[24:36] Yeah, well, so that that was

[24:37] done by home rule and voter

[24:39] approval that the mayor was put

[24:40] place as chair. I'm just saying

[24:42] the other section we should.

[24:44] make consistent and and not

[24:46] specify that they can go ahead

[24:48] and elect somebody else. I

[24:49] think let's ask the charter in

[24:50] a lot of places is sort of left

[24:51] over from you know, didn't get

[24:54] updated so now's your chance to

[24:56] update the the language so it's

[24:58] consistent with that. So should

[24:59] we vote on it again just uh so

[25:02] the question is. Elenni, to

[25:05] have the mayor not be the chair

[25:06] or the president of the school

[25:08] committee. He wasn't digesting

[25:09] that. I was suggesting that you

[25:13] change 42 organizations so it

[25:15] doesn't say that they're going

[25:16] to organize an elect a chair

[25:18] because they we crossed it out.

[25:19] Oh, did you cross it out? Oh,

[25:21] you already did that. We

[25:21] already did. We voted, we voted

[25:22] on that. You already voted on

[25:23] that, OK, sure. I wasn't here

[25:26] for that meeting. No part. Hold

[25:27] on. What we gotta do what we

[25:30] gotta do is either voted no, no,

[25:32] guys, we have to either change

[25:35] 41A or we gotta change. 4, uh,

[25:39] 42. Jennifer says you voted

[25:43] previously to change 42. You do,

[25:45] so we did vote to so one would

[25:48] be consistent where it says the

[25:49] mayor shall serve as the seven

[25:51] member and also serve as the

[25:52] chairperson. That is correct

[25:54] because when we went to 42,

[25:56] which if you look, it says the

[25:57] school committee shall annually

[26:00] shall serve organized by

[26:02] election from among its members

[26:04] and then it says a chairperson,

[26:05] it's crossed out, it's stricken

[26:06] in my, in my first copy that we

[26:10] voted this this committee voted

[26:12] on. So you struck the word

[26:13] chair, so you're all sad. I'll

[26:15] be honest, I thought that they

[26:16] were struck because it was

[26:17] supposed to be president and

[26:18] vice president, well, that one

[26:20] will be vice president there,

[26:22] but the chairman itself was

[26:24] completely crossed out and we

[26:25] voted on a motion to clean this

[26:28] up again because I don't, it's

[26:29] not on here. OK, well if Jen

[26:32] has it, we voted on it. He did,

[26:33] but I will not have it, uh,

[26:38] Section 412's gonna stay the

[26:41] same. Can you read it? Can you

[26:42] read what it should be so I can

[26:44] see if I have it. Dennis, look

[26:45] at Dennis's. This is Lisa's

[26:47] poppy she gave us, so this. and

[26:49] the Oh it is OK, and the only

[26:55] change that we'll make that I was speaking of in in

[26:58] the Lenni when she said vice

[27:00] and the reason it said say

[27:01] chair, it will say vice

[27:02] president, right, right, right,

[27:03] OK. Other than that doesn't

[27:05] talk about everything's gonna

[27:06] stay. OK, so it should be strit

[27:07] here here it says the mayor is

[27:08] the chair. Yeah, but you don't

[27:10] have to so we don't have to do

[27:11] it. All right. All we're

[27:12] dealing with vice chair, so

[27:13] we're good. So why don't I make

[27:15] a motion to accept this 4-2 as was written in the first and

[27:20] voted on it's actually here. I

[27:21] do have it. We're, we're good.

[27:23] So sorry. That's OK. All right,

[27:25] section 4 I missed that meeting.

[27:27] 42B. Anything on 42B. OK,

[27:32] hearing none, we'll go on to 42,

[27:37] 43 prohibitions. I do have a

[27:40] recommendation on this one. no

[27:41] former member of the school

[27:43] committee shall hold any

[27:44] compensated city school office.

[27:47] or city school employment until

[27:49] this says one year. but if we

[27:51] changed it elsewhere. We did it

[27:53] on the council, so we should

[27:55] match what it says in section

[27:57] 2-5. to 2 2-5, it was changed

[28:03] to 2 years. So we need someone

[28:04] to make a motion to change this

[28:06] to 2 years that motion. OK,

[28:10] motion and in a second, so any

[28:13] discussion on changing that to

[28:14] 2 years. Um, go ahead, you can

[28:17] take the vote. OK, all in favor

[28:20] oppose aye. I know. I'm meaning

[28:24] I oppose what though. So let me

[28:27] get a roll call for the record.

[28:29] um Jen, Paleti? No Sharon. Yes,

[28:36] Dennis, and myself, the chair,

[28:37] yes, so it passes. So now

[28:40] they're both consistent I voted

[28:42] against Oh, OK. And, um,

[28:46] anything else on 43? OK, then

[28:51] we can move on Section 44.

[28:56] There were no changes, Mr.

[28:57] Chairman. No, in Section 45.

[29:02] Sector 46 let me if I'm going

[29:05] too fast. I don't have any

[29:06] notes and. Section 47 filling

[29:10] in a vacancies. OK, Section 48,

[29:19] budget hearing. I'll tell you,

[29:26] and that is it for Chet. for,

[29:31] um, chapter chapter 4. Do we

[29:33] want it just for the sake of it,

[29:35] just say we'll accept Chapter 4

[29:37] we need a motion to accept all

[29:39] of Article 4 as, as amend a

[29:40] motion to um accept um all

[29:44] Section 4 as amended tonight.

[29:47] Rebecca We will motion the 2nd,

[29:49] all in favor. opposed. You guys

[29:52] have a unanimous OK, moving on

[29:57] to Article 5. This is other

[30:02] elected officials, 51 housing

[30:03] Authority. 52 City

[30:07] representatives to the greater

[30:08] Lawrence Technical School.

[30:10] Sorry, uh, since I wasn't at

[30:12] the meeting, were there any

[30:14] change that does not appear

[30:15] there were any changes to these

[30:19] two sections for housing

[30:21] authority or Greater Lawrence

[30:22] Technical District. Is that

[30:24] correct I don't think there

[30:25] were. OK I'm looking at my

[30:27] second copy's wondering if you

[30:29] ever yellowed out, um, I'm not

[30:30] using the yellow out so. The

[30:32] only thing I can think of why

[30:34] it's in yellow is maybe we made

[30:36] a new section 5 for the House

[30:38] of Authority from our old

[30:39] charter. That's the only reason

[30:41] why I think the whole thing is

[30:42] yellowed out. We had a new

[30:44] section and then section 53

[30:46] elected members of the library.

[30:49] So that is everything for

[30:51] Article 5. Anything? So sorry,

[30:55] just one more question of

[30:56] confirmation. I know that, um,

[30:58] when we had public

[30:59] participation, there was, uh,

[31:01] one or two persons that spoke

[31:04] about uh, not having the limit

[31:08] on the, uh, Nevins Library

[31:11] Board of Trustees. Um, it looks

[31:13] like we moved to keep it all

[31:15] consistent, so it's the limit

[31:17] is there, is that correct? Yeah,

[31:20] well, no, there was a gentleman

[31:23] named Ralph Krahman. um, but if

[31:25] they want to go over the 10,

[31:26] they can just come to council

[31:29] and request over the 10. OK,

[31:31] thank you. Well, hold on a

[31:33] minute then. That's interesting

[31:34] because. if this is saying that

[31:38] no person shall hold elected

[31:39] office. for more than 3

[31:42] consecutive terms. I believe

[31:45] it's the rules. of the council

[31:50] where it applies to

[31:53] appointments committees, so I

[31:55] don't know if you can just you

[31:56] can't waive the charter, the

[31:58] rules of the charter. So this

[32:01] is pretty solid that if you

[32:03] have somebody that's served

[32:04] more than 3 consecutive terms.

[32:06] The only way around that is a

[32:07] charter amendment that has to

[32:09] go to the state, right? Right.

[32:11] So I think the concern

[32:14] initially was about the

[32:16] appointments. So whether, uh,

[32:19] right when if they were beyond

[32:21] the 10 year term, they had to

[32:25] uh. yeah yeah we had to come

[32:27] back and and do the

[32:28] appointments, but this is, this

[32:29] is elected. This is the elected

[32:31] position. OK. Yeah. I think

[32:34] keeping it, as you said though,

[32:35] to your point continuity with

[32:38] all the, so we're consistent

[32:40] with it. Yeah. Did you have

[32:43] anything on that or no? You're

[32:45] good with that? OK. All right,

[32:47] so it's chapter 53, we're good.

[32:49] We're gonna move Article 53.

[32:50] We're gonna now move on to

[32:52] Article 6. You want me to make

[32:54] a motion to accept any changes

[32:57] that were made in Article 5. as

[33:00] presented. 2, we motion the 2nd.

[33:03] All in favor? I opposed. The

[33:07] ice have it passes unanimously.

[33:10] Now we go to Article 6. Finance

[33:12] and fiscal procedures. So we

[33:17] have section 6162, and 63 so

[33:22] far, anything. How about 64

[33:36] Section 65 Now I have a note to

[33:39] see the Collins Center, um, on

[33:45] section 65, what they're

[33:47] recommending, so let me find my

[33:48] notes here I had, uh, Lisa send

[33:52] that out to everyone. All of

[33:54] their answers Uh, let's see

[33:57] here are, are you are you on,

[34:09] um section, um, I think you

[34:11] went a little quick, 6th school

[34:13] operating budget. There's also

[34:15] some language in this that says

[34:17] the CDC discussed the language.

[34:19] Um, that's under 6 6-4 action

[34:24] on the operating budget. Have

[34:26] we made a determination on the

[34:27] language we want in there. No,

[34:29] let's go back and do that. I

[34:30] just missed that on my notes. 5,

[34:42] Jen, did you have that from the,

[34:50] uh, Collins 64s. They said

[34:54] there's 3 different groups of

[34:55] questions. So let me look here.

[35:15] From June 11th, Steve Uh, I

[35:17] think it was in June 11th. I

[35:19] have it. If you'd like to look

[35:21] at it So, um, I don't. buy for

[35:30] It was in their emails. What he

[35:32] did was he gave us um some

[35:39] samples of other. other

[35:41] communities I have, but it's, the June 11th, uh, Mhm.

[35:48] memo from the call-in center.

[35:54] And the question we had on that,

[35:56] I believe, was, um, how we can

[36:01] notify, right? And I thought he

[36:04] did come back on that. It might

[36:05] have been the original one. um,

[36:08] yeah, it is. Question 4. This

[36:11] was in the original, um,

[36:13] answers we got from him. I

[36:18] think he said that there was no

[36:20] definition of um newspaper of

[36:25] general circulation. I recall

[36:27] that. It's right here if you

[36:28] want to read it. Oh, is this

[36:29] that same thing? No, it's on

[36:31] this section, but for. this was

[36:39] the original answers we got.

[36:42] Question 5 Mhm. 15 2025 Yeah,

[36:50] good question two question It

[36:53] was actually, um. streamline

[37:00] yeah, with the, with the, um

[37:03] it's actually question 4. His

[37:05] answer to question 4. It says

[37:08] that the one I have done that

[37:10] it's the phrase mirrors

[37:11] language used in MGL Chapter 44,

[37:13] Section 32. which governs the

[37:16] submission of municipal budgets

[37:17] in cities. Section 1 of this

[37:19] chapter, the definition does

[37:22] not define newspaper of general

[37:24] circulation, though not defying

[37:25] the assumption has been that

[37:27] any newspaper that is generally

[37:29] available to residents has

[37:30] determined by the

[37:31] administration would qualify.

[37:33] And as technology has changed,

[37:34] there's a strong trend around

[37:35] Commonwealth to add the city

[37:37] website to the posting

[37:38] requirements. We kind of went

[37:41] with that, yeah, we did, we did

[37:43] it. That was 5, but now we're

[37:46] on, um. we're on section 64

[37:49] right now. And then we'll get

[37:51] to 5. I didn't. No, no, I think

[37:55] he basically, um, I mean,

[37:57] solicitor, what is your opinion

[37:59] on check section, um. 64 as far

[38:02] as um. the way it's treated now,

[38:07] the city council should publish

[38:08] in at least one local newspaper.

[38:11] And on the city's website and I

[38:15] think we want a clarification,

[38:17] but I think that um I think we

[38:21] still have to publish it in a

[38:23] newspaper because people don't

[38:24] always have access, so I don't

[38:25] think a note next to my thing

[38:27] that says we must keep

[38:28] newspaper because it's defined

[38:31] by chapter 44, but I don't see

[38:33] the language about the

[38:35] publication on the website. Am

[38:37] I seeing that? Uh, you got,

[38:40] you're muted, Paul. You can put

[38:42] that in. Yeah, so we should add

[38:44] in. the language, um. to the

[38:49] city website. as well I think

[38:54] we had language earlier that

[38:55] was like municipal website and

[38:58] social media accounts or

[39:00] something. So, so if you look

[39:02] at what's in Section 64 right

[39:05] now. It says the city

[39:07] councilshall publish in at

[39:09] least one local newspaper and

[39:10] on the city's website. Oh, I

[39:12] don't have that in my, maybe

[39:14] I'm reading a different copy.

[39:19] Do you have that in your car?

[39:20] Yeah, I have a different

[39:21] version too, but you see that,

[39:24] uh, the city council shall

[39:25] publish in at least one local

[39:26] newspaper and on the city's

[39:28] website. OK so they must be

[39:30] looking at an older uh sorry.

[39:33] Yeah. So I think it's in there.

[39:38] It's already in there. I must

[39:39] be looking at the older version.

[39:40] So, so then we can jump to 65

[39:43] now. There was a question on

[39:51] the 2nd paragraph of 65. right,

[39:58] and that's where they did give

[39:59] us, um question 6. Lia must. Oh,

[40:08] you're saying it was in there,

[40:09] huh? It's already in. We must

[40:11] have already voted, I was

[40:12] looking in the public hearings

[40:14] section, not the, uh, Section C.

[40:16] I was looking at A as Jen

[40:18] pointed out, as I said, not

[40:20] feeling so well. Brain's all

[40:24] right. I understoma. like

[40:30] that's in there. What, what, uh the Collins

[40:36] Center said, you see it on, uh,

[40:38] June 11th. It's, is that what

[40:39] you're looking at? So if the

[40:41] chief administration Yeah

[40:55] That's a different one. we're

[40:58] talking about um. 65 now. We're

[41:02] talking about, uh, we moved on.

[41:04] The chief administrative of

[41:06] financial officer, look at the

[41:08] second paragraph of 65. The way

[41:10] it's written right now if the

[41:12] chief administrative and

[41:13] financial officer fails to

[41:15] provide such certification

[41:17] within 7 days. after a request

[41:20] for such certification from the

[41:22] mayor, city council, school

[41:23] committee. the appropriation

[41:26] order, financial transfer,

[41:28] ordinance revision, special

[41:29] legislation. borrowing

[41:32] authorization, lease contract

[41:34] agreement. for a term more than,

[41:36] uh, of more than one fiscal

[41:37] year or collective. collective

[41:43] bargaining agreement may be

[41:44] approved. provided, however,

[41:47] that the absence of the

[41:49] certification of the officer

[41:51] shall be expressly noticed. in

[41:53] the order of vote. So I think

[41:54] it's saying if they don't

[41:55] answer within 7 days. it goes

[42:00] through. Um, and that's what

[42:01] it's in here, all right, so we

[42:03] actually we actually included

[42:07] the recommendations of the

[42:09] call-in center into section 65.

[42:11] We already did that. OK, so we

[42:15] can move on. Section 66. or

[42:27] section 67. Yeah 68 is the

[42:43] independent audit. So section

[42:51] 69 financial impacts. of long

[42:54] term commitments. So we did ask

[43:00] the call-in center on question

[43:02] 6. to find out how other cities

[43:07] and towns act. on Section 69 So

[43:12] they did give us several pages

[43:17] of how other cities were

[43:19] handling it, so he gave us, um,

[43:21] Amesbury Attleborough, Fall

[43:24] River. Framingham Did everyone

[43:28] have a chance to look at that

[43:30] and kind of see what they liked

[43:31] out of that. We're looking at

[43:33] the Conne Collin center answers

[43:35] to question 6 on on June 11th.

[43:39] No, I have it, yeah. I have it.

[43:42] OK, so you need two copies.

[43:44] June, the June 11th. for I'd

[43:48] like to I think that might be

[43:49] part of the problem. You don't

[43:51] have these yeah. yeah This is

[43:56] their answers from June, June

[43:57] 11th that we're talking about.

[44:01] I wonder if I have some of

[44:02] these. I don't. All right,

[44:05] we'll give them a second to

[44:07] just, um make copies

[44:29] Interesting to me that they,

[44:30] they're saying that most of

[44:31] these communities delegate that

[44:34] to the mayor as opposed to the

[44:35] chief financial officer. Look,

[44:37] he said, I can't hear you that

[44:40] they delegate that

[44:41] responsibility to the mayor,

[44:42] the financial responsibility.

[44:44] as opposed the question we also

[44:45] had though was when it says a

[44:47] reasonable period of time. No

[44:52] it's just a comment. um, that

[44:55] they're saying that most

[44:57] communities in the Commonwealth.

[44:59] signed this financial section

[45:04] in 6th. to be the

[45:06] responsibility of the mayor and

[45:07] not the cattle. So that's in

[45:12] here ideally they should work

[45:13] together on it. but um I think

[45:16] it's because the Yeah, that's

[45:20] probably true, yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

[45:28] that's a good point All right,

[45:37] if anyone's watching, we're

[45:38] just waiting for copies. Good. Good. She's sometimes she

[45:52] doesn't do nothing she just

[45:54] want today I know what you're

[45:55] doing. I of the cia I that made

[46:07] a statement for the first time

[46:08] the you. So when you read the

[46:14] current section 69. that led us

[46:19] to Osa Collin Center for.

[46:22] recommendations I gotta get my

[46:41] end back, so. I, I gave you my

[46:48] original. I didn't get it. Mr.

[46:54] Chair just, just as a, uh, an

[46:58] editorial comment. I, the last

[47:00] sentence of the section or

[47:01] we're reviewing right now is

[47:03] something I think is important

[47:05] that be included that the chief

[47:07] or the Cafo, uh, also, uh,

[47:10] certified that in their opinion

[47:12] that the report that's been

[47:14] prepared at physical impact is

[47:16] consistent with their thoughts

[47:18] as well. Just even though it's

[47:20] theory the mayor. you know, the

[47:23] Capo reports to the mayor. but

[47:25] I like that last sentence. I

[47:27] think it just increases

[47:28] accountability. Thank you. OK,

[47:34] so now you've got the copies,

[47:36] so I know that some of you, we

[47:37] didn't get a chance to go

[47:39] through question 6 and see how

[47:40] it's. Those of you who did read

[47:42] through this, do you see

[47:44] anything that, that makes this

[47:45] clearer? Section 6, 69 we're

[47:56] talking about and that is the

[47:58] question was answered question

[47:59] 6. from the call-in center and

[48:06] just a point of information,

[48:07] when you're looking at the

[48:10] call-in centers Fall River

[48:11] Section 6-9. The mayor shall.

[48:14] they they, they don't have a

[48:16] castle and so the chief

[48:18] administrative officer took

[48:20] over as far as all. financial

[48:23] responsibilities, so that's the

[48:24] difference between the Fall

[48:26] River section in our section. I

[48:29] think the 69 here and our

[48:32] yellow highlighted area speaks

[48:34] very well, I think, right? And

[48:36] did you get your piece in? the

[48:38] one cause it the the last

[48:39] sentence, the assessment shall

[48:41] and analysis shall be provided

[48:42] by the Chief Administrative

[48:44] Financial Officer as a

[48:45] professional opinion. She gives

[48:46] those. She, every, if you go to

[48:48] every agenda, she has a. paper

[48:51] that looks just like this, and

[48:53] if there's any financial impact

[48:55] on anything, whether it's

[48:56] buying a truck, whether it's uh

[48:59] supporting a contract. a grant

[49:01] she gives. she gives a

[49:03] breakdown if, if it's something

[49:05] that has no financial effect,

[49:07] she just says no fin no

[49:08] financial effect on the city.

[49:10] So I think that's pretty good.

[49:12] language Yeah, you're muted Our

[49:27] language presently. requires

[49:30] this of the kappa. but what the

[49:35] Collins Center is saying by

[49:37] including. several uh other

[49:40] cities in the Commonwealth.

[49:43] that they're signing the

[49:45] responsibility to the mayor. No,

[49:47] I think we asked the Collins

[49:49] Center to tell us what other

[49:50] cities are doing, but because

[49:53] we have a careful, we're gonna

[49:55] get to section 74 at the next

[49:57] meeting, which defines the

[49:59] Cafo's job, so. we have to make

[50:01] sure that we're not taking away

[50:04] responsibilities of the calffo.

[50:06] So let's, so maybe we should

[50:07] hold this until we review that.

[50:09] Well, we will. We can go back

[50:10] to it, but right now this, I

[50:11] think this is in line with the

[50:14] fact that we have a careful,

[50:15] you know what I'm saying? When

[50:16] you go to section 7, every city

[50:20] and town has a financial person.

[50:23] Well, some have an accountant.

[50:25] They don't have. There are some,

[50:28] I mean, every city has a. So do

[50:31] we want to just leave this as

[50:33] it is until we review chapter.

[50:38] 74 back we don't, I

[50:39] mean this one just talks about

[50:41] the financial impacts of the

[50:42] long term. In other words, it's

[50:44] the financial impact statement

[50:46] that's that really was an

[50:48] ordinance, not even a

[50:50] resolution about 15 years ago,

[50:52] maybe more, and now that when

[50:54] we, when we had that problem.

[50:56] and we got a Cafo, it became a

[50:58] little bit more that every city

[51:00] council meeting she needs to

[51:01] opine or he needs to opine on

[51:05] anything that has a financial

[51:06] impact, and that's basically

[51:07] what this says. Yeah, so, yeah,

[51:09] and what, what I think Sharon

[51:11] was saying was, I, I mean, the, asserting or compiling,

[51:17] putting forth a plan. uh

[51:20] financial plan for the

[51:21] following year. should be a

[51:27] major and it should have major

[51:29] involvement of the mayor does.

[51:30] So I would, uh, here's just the

[51:32] way I'm thinking that it should

[51:34] be the responsibility of the

[51:35] mayor. and I'm thinking that a

[51:38] mayor would be foolish not to

[51:40] work in cooperation with their

[51:42] chief financial officer. I mean,

[51:44] no mayor would do that because

[51:45] you would stand the chance of

[51:48] maybe doing an incomplete or

[51:50] whatever statement Well, it's

[51:52] interesting because I think

[51:54] that the capital improvement

[51:55] plan does say. that it's in

[51:59] consultation with the CAO but

[52:01] then. so I think the Caro's

[52:04] going to be involved in the

[52:06] planning. The question to your

[52:08] point, which is it says it

[52:10] rests with the mayor to uh

[52:14] provide this um fiscal impact

[52:18] statement, if you will. um

[52:20] which presumably would be

[52:23] developed while they're doing

[52:25] the capital improvement plan,

[52:26] you would hope, right? What I

[52:28] do find interesting is in the

[52:32] Fall River piece. um is, uh,

[52:38] how deeply specific it is. I'm

[52:41] not saying we should, uh,

[52:42] absolutely consider it, but you

[52:43] know, it says, you know, trends

[52:46] impact the condition long term

[52:47] debt service that will be

[52:49] incurred, debt management plan.

[52:50] These are really important

[52:51] things. as we all know, uh, as

[52:55] we're. talking about capital

[52:58] improvement, um, you know,

[52:59] potential for new or expanded

[53:01] revenues, um. so I think in the

[53:05] CAFO Act there this language

[53:08] that you're talking about, the

[53:09] more long-term, is there in the section, there is a

[53:13] section that, and I'm assuming

[53:14] you later on have added that

[53:16] language because that's part of

[53:18] this exercise to chapter

[53:20] section 74. It's all in there

[53:21] there's, I may not mimic this

[53:23] exactly, but there is a long

[53:25] term, I think, 5 year plan

[53:27] which you may wanna add

[53:28] additions to like there are

[53:29] some things that aren't in

[53:30] there that are in here. So

[53:33] point of information too, uh,

[53:35] any bonding, any borrowing

[53:38] requires that exact document as

[53:40] part of the bond prospectus. So, it, it, it's available. and

[53:45] reviewed, I'm sure when the

[53:47] council was looking at a bond

[53:48] perspectives, it's, it's, it's

[53:50] part of it. Yeah. But I think

[53:53] the mayor, I think the Cao

[53:54] needs to be. involved at all.

[53:57] She's the chief financial

[53:59] officer. So, I mean, it does

[54:01] say the mayor working with the

[54:02] Cafo, I would. no, uh, are you

[54:08] on section 69 or? upon written

[54:11] request from the mayor or a

[54:13] written request from the city

[54:14] council chief administrative.

[54:17] financial officer You're muted

[54:26] To me that says if someone

[54:28] requests it uh he or she, the

[54:30] mayor. but I think it's

[54:34] important that we state that

[54:36] the mayor is ultimately

[54:37] responsible for the, I mean,

[54:38] the mayor's the chief executive

[54:40] officer of the city, so they

[54:42] are in fact responsible for the

[54:44] finances, but if, if I were the

[54:46] mayor, I would be working very

[54:49] closely with the kappa and

[54:52] assigning this to her or he

[54:54] saying, you know, take the

[54:55] first cut at it and then we'll

[54:56] chat about it. So I, I, I just

[54:58] think that's the proper way it

[55:00] should be. I think that the way

[55:04] the Cafe's job was created. it

[55:06] gives the Caho a lot of power.

[55:10] She is ultimately responsible

[55:11] financially. The mayor could

[55:13] say to her, I want you to move

[55:14] money from one department to

[55:16] the other, and she can say to

[55:17] the mayor, I'm not going to do

[55:18] that. Now, now the mayor has

[55:20] the ability to fire the calffo,

[55:22] but she can then appeal to the

[55:24] council, but hopefully, I mean.

[55:27] if, if what, what mayor is

[55:29] going to not take the advice

[55:31] unless it's bad advice. Take

[55:33] the advice of the chief

[55:36] financial officer because might

[55:37] be they could turn around and

[55:38] come to the council, make a big

[55:40] ruhaha over it so uh. I mean, I, think that's the mayor's job

[55:46] to make sure that he or she

[55:48] supervises the the chief

[55:51] finances of the city and the

[55:53] person who's responsible for

[55:54] that. I mean, that's their job

[55:56] just like they're responsible

[55:58] for the Department of Community

[56:00] Development and anything else.

[56:02] Well, I don't think this makes

[56:03] the mayor not responsible. I, I

[56:05] mean, I understand what you're

[56:06] saying. It's sort of saying.

[56:08] the mayor has to ask the CAO

[56:09] for a written opinion when

[56:12] usually that would just happen

[56:13] as a matter of course, like I

[56:15] think it's more important for

[56:16] the council to be able to ask

[56:19] for a written opinion on issues.

[56:21] I think the mayor's the

[56:23] director indirectly appointing

[56:24] the CAO, so it's a little

[56:25] different, but I think this is

[56:26] more of an information section

[56:29] than a duty section. Yeah I, I

[56:32] think that prison 69, yes. Yeah.

[56:35] I, I just think it pretty much

[56:37] leaves the mayor out of it.

[56:38] Well, I, I can give you another

[56:40] insight of when it says

[56:42] financial impacts of long-term

[56:44] commitment, um. and as you said,

[56:46] I think it's just in here, the

[56:49] mayor has to have a written

[56:51] request when we gave up the

[56:52] auditor, the city council, they

[56:55] were very concerned with, well,

[56:57] we're just 9, you know,

[56:59] individuals here from all

[57:01] different backgrounds and what

[57:02] if there was something that you

[57:04] know, that they wanted to ask

[57:06] the capital for, like, before

[57:07] the meeting, you know, because

[57:08] at the meeting, she's sitting

[57:11] in that chair and the council

[57:13] can ask Curb, and that's what

[57:14] me and Eleni was saying when it

[57:15] says oral. So say they say, hey,

[57:17] um, you know, this truck that

[57:18] we're buying, you know, in 5

[57:20] years, oh, and she might say,

[57:21] well, you know, we have all

[57:22] these other trucks and they're

[57:23] all coming off of the debt, so

[57:25] it will be good even though

[57:26] that may not have been a report,

[57:28] it's oral and it's on the floor

[57:29] and it's in recorded, but if

[57:32] because of her duties and we'll

[57:34] probably see that in 7, it is a

[57:36] must, and that's why like if

[57:37] you look at the agenda, she

[57:39] does have a report and it's

[57:40] this, and not to say the

[57:42] mayor's not involved in it, he

[57:43] is, he is involved, but it's

[57:45] her job to make sure that the

[57:47] financial long term no,

[57:48] absolutely, I don't, I don't

[57:50] disagree with that it's her job,

[57:50] but, but I would say too that

[57:52] the council should have the

[57:54] right or the authority to

[57:56] question any department that

[57:58] about information that they do

[58:00] well, but I mean it's the same

[58:01] thing really. I mean. no, I

[58:04] agree it is strangely worded

[58:06] where it says upon written

[58:08] request. from the mayor, right?

[58:10] Upon writing requests from the

[58:11] city council makes sense, but

[58:12] from the mayor, like, shouldn't

[58:13] the mayor just be able, like,

[58:16] yeah, like shouldn't that

[58:18] already be something Yeah. Yeah,

[58:30] you could, you could just say

[58:32] as requested by the mayor. I

[58:40] You're muted again. It

[58:41] shouldn't just be as requested

[58:43] by the mayor. I think it the

[58:45] mayor is ultimately responsible

[58:46] for this. Am I correct? It's

[58:49] the mayor who's responsible for

[58:50] the finances of the city. She

[58:53] has a great or he has great

[58:54] authority. in regards to that

[58:58] but this just basically says

[59:00] the mayor it's time to put

[59:03] together the fiscal outlook for

[59:04] the city and I'm, I guess I'm

[59:06] gonna stroll down the hall and

[59:07] ask theafo to begin. when, when

[59:10] it, I think it should be worded

[59:11] differently, so the, the

[59:14] responsibility rests where it

[59:15] is, where it should be, with

[59:18] the chief executive officer of

[59:19] the city. and and he or she is

[59:21] going to rise or fall over

[59:23] their working relationship with

[59:24] the cap. This may be from 278,

[59:27] Paul. I'm not sure if they took

[59:29] this from 278, which was the

[59:30] law. And when, when, when, when

[59:33] the capital was hired, believe

[59:35] it or not, at the time the

[59:38] mere's salary was $80,000 when

[59:42] they hired the Cao. It was at a

[59:44] 175,000. It was the most

[59:47] expensive employee, even more

[59:48] than the superintendent because

[59:49] at that point, they were the

[59:51] administrative and financial

[59:53] officer of the entire city,

[59:54] including the schools. It

[59:56] believe me, we, we weeks has

[59:58] Steve, we had to and we wanted

[59:59] to make sure this was language

[1:00:02] some of them were counseling

[1:00:03] which was put in to say, well,

[1:00:05] what if we're shut out? What if

[1:00:06] we, because we had a lot of it

[1:00:08] in the state was very involved

[1:00:09] in that. They were very, I

[1:00:10] think the auditor made more

[1:00:11] than $80,000. I'm sorry, say

[1:00:13] that. I think the auditor made

[1:00:15] more than $80,000. Well, well, could be the mayor, the

[1:00:19] mayor, she said. I think he, no,

[1:00:23] so that just showed the

[1:00:24] authority that the state wanted

[1:00:26] this because again, some mayors

[1:00:27] have different backgrounds, but

[1:00:29] this particular person came

[1:00:30] with a strong financial

[1:00:32] background and that's why, yes,

[1:00:34] the mayor and them should

[1:00:35] absolutely work together, but

[1:00:37] the financial specialty should

[1:00:38] be from the person that they

[1:00:40] hired at that that is, as you

[1:00:42] said, that was the state.

[1:00:45] involvement in this in demand

[1:00:47] basically and we created, uh,

[1:00:50] you, you can say that, um, the

[1:00:52] mayor should make the decisions,

[1:00:54] but this all came about uh from

[1:00:57] a mayor that ignored the advice

[1:01:00] of the accountant at the time.

[1:01:02] He was to that. Well, what

[1:01:05] happened to the city, so you

[1:01:07] could say the mayor, he

[1:01:08] finished his 6th term, his 3rd

[1:01:10] term, the mayor finished. So

[1:01:12] nothing happened, but my point

[1:01:13] is that look, whoever being

[1:01:18] mayor is an election and

[1:01:20] unfortunately there are no

[1:01:22] requirements and a city the

[1:01:24] size of Methuen with a $220

[1:01:28] million budget needs someone

[1:01:30] with financial backing. Now, if

[1:01:31] we had a city manager who had a

[1:01:34] show there, their financial

[1:01:36] background to be able to run

[1:01:37] the city, then maybe that would

[1:01:38] be different. But to elect a

[1:01:40] mayor, we've seen some

[1:01:41] candidates run and to elect a

[1:01:43] mayor. who may have no

[1:01:45] financial background. We need

[1:01:47] the the chief financial officer.

[1:01:50] to be able to, that's her

[1:01:52] specialty or his specialty. Run

[1:01:54] the financial needs of the city,

[1:01:55] but that's democracy. The

[1:01:58] people of the city are electing.

[1:02:00] the head of their government

[1:02:02] and the head of their

[1:02:04] government is responsible for

[1:02:06] making sure it works and works

[1:02:07] properly and if they don't

[1:02:09] failed and if they don't there, are sanctions to that,

[1:02:13] but you can't take away all of

[1:02:14] the authority of your chief

[1:02:16] executive officer. because then

[1:02:17] you end up with somebody who's

[1:02:19] like a rubber stamping, uh, or

[1:02:21] signing diplomas. A question,

[1:02:23] are you saying that, uh, with

[1:02:26] even in uh the written request

[1:02:30] notwithstanding the CaO should

[1:02:33] be doing this and providing it

[1:02:35] to the mayor and the council,

[1:02:37] so for example, uh, in this

[1:02:39] scenario you just said, uh,

[1:02:41] where the, uh, cafe or someone

[1:02:44] said, this is the financial

[1:02:45] impact and the mayor says, well,

[1:02:47] we're do it anyway, right?

[1:02:49] Um uh, the like, uh, the

[1:02:54] Cafo should be required to

[1:02:57] provide that information. to

[1:03:01] others regardless, right?

[1:03:02] Because then you're getting

[1:03:03] into the situation. I'm like,

[1:03:05] Well, if I don't ask for it, I

[1:03:07] don't have to tell you,, right,

[1:03:10] yeah, but I mean, here's the

[1:03:11] thing, if I don't ask you, you

[1:03:12] don't, I don't have to tell you.

[1:03:14] So none of us, all the new city councilors, if I

[1:03:18] didn't know to ask what the

[1:03:20] financial impact is. I'm just

[1:03:23] saying then we then nobody gets

[1:03:26] it. And that's a bad thing. So

[1:03:28] that so I don't think that

[1:03:29] language, this language does

[1:03:30] that either. We're assuming

[1:03:33] that the CAO is going to do

[1:03:35] everything correctly properly,

[1:03:36] and render the best. outcome

[1:03:39] but that may not always be the

[1:03:41] case. I just like we elected

[1:03:43] somebody who wasn't maybe

[1:03:44] paying attention to the fiscal

[1:03:47] realities of the day. You could have a calf phone.

[1:03:50] That was not that confident

[1:03:53] thecalho could be terminated at

[1:03:54] any point if they're not doing

[1:03:56] their job. So you're, no, the

[1:03:57] mayor cannot. The mayor would

[1:03:59] have to be voted out, but it

[1:04:01] doesn't, when you, when you

[1:04:03] have a Caho that's not.

[1:04:06] correctly providing a financial

[1:04:07] oversight of the city, and we

[1:04:09] are in the first term of the

[1:04:11] mayor, the mayor can turn

[1:04:12] around and say, you're not

[1:04:13] doing your job. I'm terminating

[1:04:15] you. All right, now, I think

[1:04:17] that's important. I think

[1:04:19] that's why this was written and

[1:04:20] that's why the state made it

[1:04:22] clear that the capital has a

[1:04:24] financial oversight of the city.

[1:04:25] So the mayor can say to the

[1:04:27] capital, now, in reality, the

[1:04:28] Capitol sits down with the

[1:04:29] mayor. Here's what it is. The

[1:04:30] mayor says, well, I really

[1:04:32] wanna do this, but it's on the

[1:04:34] Cafo's point to have to approve

[1:04:35] it or do it. And if the CAO is

[1:04:37] wrong, then if the capital's

[1:04:39] wrong, then the capital should

[1:04:40] be terminated. I mean, so

[1:04:42] you've put the city through all

[1:04:43] of that turmoil. when we could

[1:04:47] craft language that basically

[1:04:49] forces them. to work together

[1:04:51] to develop. It's already in

[1:04:52] there I think. They do work

[1:04:54] together because of that they

[1:04:55] work very closely. Yeah, that's

[1:04:58] all, but we get it, but I think

[1:05:00] that there's a, there's a, a, a

[1:05:03] potential to think about making

[1:05:07] sure that these financial

[1:05:08] impact statements are actually

[1:05:09] done right there's been done by

[1:05:12] ordinances of the city council.

[1:05:14] It's not in, but we have, we

[1:05:16] have the capital has to um.

[1:05:21] within um within and I it's

[1:05:23] broken down to so many hours

[1:05:24] after the agenda, but before

[1:05:26] the meeting, provide a

[1:05:28] financial impact statement. It

[1:05:30] may not have, but that's up to

[1:05:33] the copies to say if you I, I, mean, if, if you go on to the

[1:05:38] city website, which I like to

[1:05:41] muted, and you can go on to the

[1:05:43] city website in, as you know,

[1:05:45] click, click. like uh uh a um

[1:05:49] resolution number or the CAFO

[1:05:52] report, which I, I do like to

[1:05:53] cause. I really never got to

[1:05:55] serve with the cafo, you know,

[1:05:56] cause she came in in 2020 and

[1:05:59] oh wait a minute, check in 2019

[1:06:00] towards the very, very end

[1:06:02] maybe. So at the end of the day,

[1:06:05] I think that the the if I'm not

[1:06:09] mistaken, it was like 5 o'clock

[1:06:10] in the afternoon on Monday, and

[1:06:12] in those councils again are put

[1:06:13] into a tough spot that they

[1:06:15] have to now, what if they want

[1:06:16] to call her on something and

[1:06:17] say, well, you know, is this OK?

[1:06:19] That was the planned lateness

[1:06:21] just so that, that was a

[1:06:22] planned late ness just so you

[1:06:23] know she was on vaca she, she

[1:06:26] was on vacation so she had

[1:06:27] notified the council that it

[1:06:29] was coming, but are you saying

[1:06:32] then that that any long term,

[1:06:36] uh, Eddie contract, whatever

[1:06:38] that has, uh, financial impact,

[1:06:41] the CAFOs required to provide a

[1:06:44] preemptive statement that

[1:06:46] provided for every contract, and that goes to all

[1:06:50] the city council in advance.

[1:06:51] Now I don't watch the meetings

[1:06:53] lately, but I will tell you as

[1:06:54] a city councilor, if we had an

[1:06:56] important contract in front of

[1:06:57] us, and we didn't have the

[1:06:59] financial impact we tabled it.

[1:07:01] Sorry, we don't have the

[1:07:02] information. Sorry, Mayor, you

[1:07:03] get out your Cafo. but that's

[1:07:06] not Sharon's the mayor would

[1:07:08] get after the Cat. So on one

[1:07:09] level you don't want the mayor

[1:07:11] to be in charge of that, but

[1:07:12] then you just said you would

[1:07:14] say to the mayor who had

[1:07:15] nothing to do with what the

[1:07:16] person reported or didn't

[1:07:17] report to you. Well, you know,

[1:07:19] Mayor, you get after the mayor,

[1:07:20] but, but plenty of information,

[1:07:22] the CAA reports to the mayor.

[1:07:23] That's right. She works for him.

[1:07:26] OK, so yes, so if he doesn't,

[1:07:28] she doesn't do it, a piece of

[1:07:29] paper. Can I make a

[1:07:31] recommendation? It wassume that

[1:07:34] information is always going to

[1:07:35] be imparted. Now she's a lovely

[1:07:38] person. She works hard, she

[1:07:39] does her job. but I watched the

[1:07:42] council meeting because it had

[1:07:43] a, uh, something I was

[1:07:45] interested in. and she gave the

[1:07:48] counsel asked a question. She

[1:07:49] gave out information to the

[1:07:51] council. The mayor had no idea.

[1:07:53] and it was an important issue

[1:07:57] And so I'm, so I'm just saying

[1:08:00] you somehow they each have

[1:08:04] responsibilities, legal

[1:08:06] responsibilities, and somehow I

[1:08:07] think the charter. should

[1:08:10] compromise with those

[1:08:11] responsibilities are and make

[1:08:12] sure that they are in fact

[1:08:14] working together. excuse me,

[1:08:15] for the betterment of the city.

[1:08:18] But, but if we give this, I'm

[1:08:20] not gonna I'm, this will be the

[1:08:21] end of it. I mean if they give

[1:08:23] disincentive for that in the

[1:08:25] charter and that becomes a

[1:08:27] really difficult issue. So if

[1:08:29] you have a situation with the

[1:08:30] police chief and there's a

[1:08:32] crisis in the city and the

[1:08:33] chief is telling the mayor,

[1:08:35] this is what we have to do. If

[1:08:37] the mayor was going to try to

[1:08:39] overrule the chief without

[1:08:40] having any knowledge of what's

[1:08:42] going on or if we had a

[1:08:44] situation with the DPW with the

[1:08:46] engineer of the city and the

[1:08:48] mayor tries to overrule, then

[1:08:50] there's a problem of American

[1:08:51] can fire them but they can

[1:08:53] appeal. I'm sorry, that's the

[1:08:54] mayor's job. That's true. But

[1:08:55] when you're talking about the

[1:08:57] financial condition of the city.

[1:08:58] Yeah, that's the mayor. There

[1:09:00] was a when my recommendation is

[1:09:02] we next meeting when we review

[1:09:05] chapter 740 chapter 74. It's

[1:09:08] not on the agenda. But if we

[1:09:10] review chapter 74. and review

[1:09:12] the, the definition and

[1:09:13] responsibilities of the CAFO. I

[1:09:15] think it'll make more sense. I

[1:09:17] know what it says. We've read

[1:09:18] it and then we'll go back to

[1:09:19] this if you want. Yeah, let's

[1:09:20] go back to it because

[1:09:22] unfortunately it's not on the

[1:09:23] agenda otherwise I'd say let's

[1:09:24] jump to it. That's all it's an

[1:09:26] important distinction that we

[1:09:27] need to talk about. Exactly,

[1:09:43] yeah So we ' ll so we'll look

[1:09:48] at 6 9 again as we go through

[1:09:55] chapter 7, yeah, but when we go

[1:09:57] through chapter 7, OK. All

[1:09:59] right, uh, is that fair? I'm

[1:10:00] not trying to, OK, all right,

[1:10:02] um, the last item here, section.

[1:10:05] 610 Any changes there No Can I, ask you a question

[1:10:17] because I wasn't at all the

[1:10:19] meetings. Why did you want to

[1:10:22] eliminate section 56. Why, why

[1:10:25] did you want to eliminate the

[1:10:26] one in between 56, about the

[1:10:29] treasurer receiving 5 quotes

[1:10:31] for investment or borrowing.

[1:10:32] Are you going back? We're going

[1:10:33] back to chapter 50 did you move

[1:10:35] it somewhere else? It's right

[1:10:38] in between the one we were

[1:10:39] talking about. 5 became 6,

[1:10:41] right? Chapter 5 became chapter

[1:10:43] 6. No, this is just section 66

[1:10:48] Chief Administrative Officer I

[1:10:49] think we moved it. Oh, you

[1:10:51] moved it. Oh, OK, all right,

[1:10:52] but. let's confirm. Jen will

[1:10:54] remember she's got that memory.

[1:10:56] I only, I only point that out

[1:10:58] because that issue does come up

[1:11:01] just so you know. Yeah there

[1:11:10] are some independent statutory

[1:11:12] authorities that the treasurer

[1:11:13] has on their own. which overlay

[1:11:16] with the caffo has as well

[1:11:18] because of state law, so

[1:11:20] getting quotes for interest

[1:11:22] rates Maybe we didn't lose it I

[1:11:30] thought we struck it because we

[1:11:32] moved it, why would we have

[1:11:33] removed it? I mean, it does

[1:11:40] seem oddly specific in the

[1:11:41] charter, but I thought we'd

[1:11:43] start getting moved it, but. we

[1:11:46] might have found it redundant

[1:11:49] to the Capos section. I don't, remember why we we can

[1:11:52] look. I'll just look. I'll look

[1:11:54] at the Cafo sections that

[1:11:55] you're adding in just to see if

[1:11:57] it it may be covered already. I

[1:12:00] just want to make sure because

[1:12:02] like I said that there there's

[1:12:04] a lot of state statutes that

[1:12:06] speak to. um authority of the

[1:12:09] treasurers and authority to do

[1:12:11] certain things and I sort of

[1:12:12] make sure that's adequately

[1:12:13] folded into the CAFO's

[1:12:15] authority so that there isn't

[1:12:16] some split of authority as to

[1:12:18] that issue because it has come

[1:12:20] up in the past, so, so I guess

[1:12:23] what you're saying what I heard

[1:12:24] you that this needs to be

[1:12:27] somewhere in the charter, OK,

[1:12:28] we'll figure out, OK. I mean

[1:12:30] it's really just an information

[1:12:32] sack. These are sort of

[1:12:34] information sections like. it's

[1:12:36] not saying that they can or

[1:12:37] cannot do it. It's saying they

[1:12:39] need to disclose to the council,

[1:12:40] hey, this is where I'm going

[1:12:42] with our money, but here's the

[1:12:44] five quotes I got so you can

[1:12:46] see this is the best one. So.

[1:12:51] more transparency than anything.

[1:12:53] in my opinion OK. So, at, at

[1:12:57] that we're done with today's

[1:12:59] agenda, um. so obviously we're

[1:13:02] not going to be able to meet

[1:13:05] our goal, which was to have

[1:13:06] this done by the beginning of

[1:13:08] September, but, um, we've got

[1:13:10] to kind of decide our next

[1:13:11] meeting, and I know we get

[1:13:12] vacations, whatever, it's been

[1:13:13] tough. So do we want to look at

[1:13:18] meeting potentially. on

[1:13:20] September 4th, which is after

[1:13:22] Labor Day. and we can reviews

[1:13:26] I'll put chapter 7. Article 7.

[1:13:29] Let me see. 8 and 9. Yeah, 7

[1:13:33] through 9. Double check when I

[1:13:39] get back before. OK, so what

[1:13:44] I'd like to do is, um, if you

[1:13:46] just let me know. and review 6.

[1:13:51] Well, we could always go back.

[1:13:52] We've been doing that. Well, we

[1:13:53] have. Is that all right, Paul?

[1:13:55] That we can go back? OK, yes,

[1:13:56] you can do that. So, um

[1:14:01] everyone look all right for you

[1:14:02] know, the, the, the Thursday

[1:14:04] after Labor Day. Is that all

[1:14:05] right before? 4 Thursday the

[1:14:07] 4th. Yeah. Tuesday. All right,

[1:14:12] we'll, we'll tentatively, um,

[1:14:14] yeah, please just let me know

[1:14:16] September 4th. and then I'll

[1:14:19] get together on the next agenda.

[1:14:21] Great. So it is, uh, anything

[1:14:23] else what we adjourn? Motion to

[1:14:26] adjourn, it's 8:10 p.m. Motion

[1:14:28] to adjour, we need a motion.

[1:14:31] Second, all in favor,

[1:14:33] opposed The ayes have it. This

[1:14:35] meeting is adjourned.

Charter Review Committee

Transcript