[0:02] Good evening. I'm going to call to order

[0:05] this being May 28th a meeting of the

[0:08] committee of infrastructure being held

[0:11] this Wednesday again May 28th 2025 at

[0:15] 700 p.m. in the automatic chamber and

[0:17] duly noted in two places including city

[0:21] hall's websites in accordance with

[0:23] requirements of RSA 91- semicolon 2

[0:28] Roman numeral 2. Can the clerk please

[0:32] take the role?

[0:34] Absolutely. Alderman Tibido here.

[0:37] Alderman Sullivan here. Alderman Cle is

[0:40] here. Alderman Dow

[0:43] and Alderman at large O'Brien present. I

[0:47] declare a quarum. You have four members.

[0:49] Yes.

[0:51] Okay. Also in attendance is Mr. Tim

[0:55] Cummings, administrative service

[0:57] director.

[0:58] uh Chief Stephen Buckton of the

[1:00] Nashville Fire Rescue and Don Enright. I

[1:05] don't know if she's on

[1:07] I do not see but uh so we'll keep an eye

[1:11] out if she decides to join us. Okay,

[1:14] I'll open it up to public comment.

[1:17] Anybody have

[1:19] any information from the public? Seeing

[1:21] none, we'll move on to discussion of

[1:24] presentations on fire station facilities

[1:28] update and I'll recognize Chief Buckton

[1:32] and administrative service director, Mr.

[1:34] Tim Cummings. Yes. Thank Thank you, Mr.

[1:36] Chairman. Uh, may we approach? You may

[1:38] approach. Have a seat.

[1:40] They're much more comfortable

[1:42] than the benches.

[1:48] Commissioner, you want to join them? You

[1:49] may. Okay.

[1:51] right here and open it in my

[1:54] So, uh, as as folks are getting settled

[1:56] here for the record, Tim Cummings,

[1:58] director of administrative services, uh,

[2:00] uh, I'm going to hand it off to Chief

[2:02] Buckton in one second, who's going to

[2:04] who's going to go into a little bit more

[2:05] detail than I am. But to just set the

[2:07] table here, um, if you recall, uh, a

[2:11] little while back, we set money aside to

[2:13] do a master facility planning study, a

[2:17] deferred capital maintenance study, if

[2:19] you will. Um, and this evening, I

[2:22] believe you're going to hear uh some of

[2:23] the findings and the work that was done

[2:26] over uh the last few months or so. Um,

[2:29] the the real genesis behind this

[2:32] conversation is because what I'm hoping

[2:33] to do as a follow on to this

[2:36] conversation is to start to have a

[2:38] conversation with you all about

[2:40] developing a plan for for funding the

[2:43] various uh maintenance needs. Um, I have

[2:46] some ideas uh kind of sketched out in

[2:49] the back of my mind as to how to

[2:50] possibly accommodate it. Uh, but

[2:53] obviously, you know, I don't want to get

[2:55] too far ahead of myself and I I welcome

[2:57] everyone's input here. So, having that

[2:59] conversation as uh in followup to this,

[3:02] I think will behoove everyone as we do

[3:04] want to be good stewards of the of the

[3:07] city's assets. So, uh, with that being

[3:09] said, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to hand it

[3:11] off to uh uh Chief Buckton and uh and

[3:14] start the conversation in earnest. Okay,

[3:16] Chief Buckton, please. Thank you. Steve

[3:18] Buckton, National Fire Chief. Um so, as

[3:21] you may remember, we went through the

[3:23] process uh to seek out a vendor to

[3:25] perform a facility study for us. Uh we

[3:28] found some people uh far on the other

[3:30] side of the country um over in Seattle

[3:33] that actually did the work for us. Um

[3:35] Assistant Chief Pulot headed up the

[3:37] project. Um the city invested about

[3:40] $350,000 for this study. It's very

[3:43] comprehensive comprehensive uh and it

[3:45] gives us a good pathway forward uh to be

[3:48] able to follow for many years for the

[3:50] work we need to do to our facilities. Um

[3:53] some of it is uh not a surprise to many

[3:56] of us, but some of the dollar amounts do

[3:58] add up to quite a bit. So uh I'll turn

[4:00] it over to Assistant Chief Pulot. uh

[4:02] he's worked with these uh two ladies

[4:05] here and their team uh quite extensively

[4:07] over the past year to get this study

[4:09] done. So I'll let them take it away.

[4:11] Okay. Before you start uh chief uh and

[4:15] to our guests when if you are asked to

[4:19] speak can you just identify yourself

[4:21] because your new people and the

[4:23] transcription people may not know. So

[4:26] every time that you go to speak, state

[4:29] your name and then it will be duly

[4:31] recorded. Chief Fullard, good evening.

[4:34] Thank you. So thank you. U as the chief

[4:37] said comprehensive study of our

[4:39] facilities that includes all six of our

[4:41] firehouses, our fire alarm dispatch

[4:43] center and our training grounds out of

[4:45] the landfill. So it covers eight

[4:47] facilities. uh focuses on the building

[4:49] itself uh plumbing, electrical, HVAC

[4:53] needs and a lot of focus on health and

[4:55] safety of our firefighters. Those are

[4:57] items like um proper separation between

[5:00] apparatus space, living area, uh indoor

[5:03] air quality testing, things like that.

[5:05] So, the study really covered um pretty

[5:08] much every avenue of of living in a fire

[5:12] station. And uh to present tonight we

[5:15] have Sarah Partap from uh Mang Analysis

[5:18] and Sarah Gladex from Rice Fergus

[5:21] Miller.

[5:24] Hi. Thank you. Um I'm Sarah Partap uh

[5:26] from Megan Analysis. Um I want to start

[5:30] by just saying hello to everybody and

[5:32] thank you to Chief Buckton and Chief

[5:34] Pulot for the ask if you could bring the

[5:37] microphone a little bit closer to you.

[5:39] Yeah. Yeah. Is that better? Yeah. Okay.

[5:41] So, thank you to you guys for the

[5:43] support through this project. It was a

[5:44] large undertaking that required a lot of

[5:47] uh background information and support

[5:48] while we were on site. As I mentioned,

[5:50] it was a very extensive study. We had

[5:51] team members on site in every building.

[5:53] So, uh they were heavily involved in the

[5:56] FCA and the planning process. So, we

[5:58] appreciate your time. Um I was the

[6:00] project manager of kind of the overall

[6:02] project itself and then also of the

[6:03] facility condition assessment portion.

[6:05] Um and I have Sarah Gladex with me. I'll

[6:07] let her introduce herself.

[6:09] Hi, good evening. Sarah Gladex. I'm a

[6:12] principal and fire station planner with

[6:14] Rice Fergus Miller

[6:16] Architects. And uh my job was to help

[6:19] manage and plan phase two of this

[6:22] project, which included understanding um

[6:24] the way that you use all of your fire

[6:26] facilities and how we can implement

[6:28] change to make them better and more

[6:30] modernized. Um and to uh as Chief Pulat

[6:33] mentioned uh ensure health and and

[6:35] safety and wellness of of firefighters

[6:37] now and into the future.

[6:40] All right, Sarah Partap again. We might

[6:43] go back and forth. Do we We're going to

[6:45] go back and forth on some slides. So So

[6:46] we just keep that That would be fine.

[6:48] Okay. Um so this is just kind of an

[6:50] overview of what we were hoping to go

[6:52] through tonight in our agenda. Uh we

[6:54] will be brief in some of these. So feel

[6:56] free to ask us questions at the end and

[6:57] we can dive deeper into whatever topics

[7:00] you have questions about. So first,

[7:01] would you mind questions on topic as

[7:04] you're going through or do you want to

[7:06] wait to the end?

[7:08] Either would be fine. Whatever you're

[7:10] comfortable with, we could go either

[7:12] way. I think it's okay. If it if it

[7:14] starts to get to be like one and

[7:15] another, then maybe we pause it till the

[7:17] end. I think we got a good group. I

[7:19] think they'll, you know, stay on focus.

[7:22] This is the best committee in the city.

[7:24] Yeah. Oh, good. Well, we're glad we're

[7:25] on this one.

[7:28] Um, all right. So, we're going to start

[7:30] with just sort of the purpose of this

[7:32] project and the methodology. We will

[7:33] give you like highlevel findings sort of

[7:35] trends across the whole portfolio of

[7:37] buildings. Then we'll get into some

[7:39] specifics about each facility and then

[7:41] summarizing the different types of costs

[7:43] and what those costs are toward the

[7:45] end. So the the context for this project

[7:48] is the city and uh Nashville Fire Rescue

[7:51] has undergone additional preparatory

[7:53] work before doing this study. So in 2021

[7:55] there was a master plan which reviewed

[7:58] you know the fire service overall

[7:59] station locations and kind of laid out a

[8:01] big plan for the future. Um, from that

[8:03] you guys went into the strategic plan

[8:05] which had specific items to follow up or

[8:07] how you're going to achieve this vision

[8:09] and one of those was a facility study so

[8:12] you can document all of your backlog of

[8:13] maintenance and move forward with

[8:15] decision-m for which to repair, which to

[8:17] replace etc. So that's where we came in

[8:20] for the facility condition assessment

[8:22] and then the long range plan was the

[8:23] phase two of our project which is taking

[8:25] the condition data and wrapping it into

[8:27] little digestible packages of what are

[8:29] your options for upgrading and repairing

[8:30] each station.

[8:34] Uh so just a quick overview about the

[8:36] facility condition assessment process.

[8:38] Uh we had a team of specialists that

[8:39] were from uh architectural, mechanical

[8:42] engineer, electrical engineer,

[8:43] structural engineer uh and a civil

[8:45] engineer. And additionally we had a firm

[8:48] who specializes in hazardous materials

[8:49] testing on board to do uh hazardous

[8:52] materials and air quality testing at

[8:54] select stations. Um the site assessments

[8:56] occurred in the summer of 2024. Uh we

[8:59] were on site for about uh a week. We did

[9:02] one we did a a one pilot uh in in June

[9:05] and then we were back on site in August

[9:06] to get through the rest of the stations.

[9:08] Um some of the terminology that I'll use

[9:10] tonight, observe deficiencies. That's

[9:12] one that I'll use a lot. Uh that's

[9:14] talking about issues that are either

[9:16] noted by our surveyors while they're on

[9:18] site or they're disclosed to them. Say

[9:20] if it's a roof a roof leak, but we were

[9:22] there in the summer, you guys could tell

[9:23] us there's a roof leak, we would we

[9:25] would note that. and they're things that

[9:26] are need to be repaired within five

[9:28] years and that have a direct cost of at

[9:30] least

[9:31] $5,000. Uh our longer term costs from

[9:33] the facility condition assessment are

[9:35] called predicted renewals and that's

[9:37] more of like a statistical model of what

[9:38] we would expect you to need to pay based

[9:40] on your building types and the ages of

[9:42] the systems. What you would need to pay

[9:44] over 20 years across your whole building

[9:46] portfolio rolled up. So this year you

[9:48] need a million two. This year you might

[9:50] need five million. So we we forecast

[9:52] that out 20 years into the future.

[9:57] Sarah Gladex from Ricebergus Miller. Uh

[9:59] the process that we use for phase two um

[10:02] starts with a needs assessment which is

[10:04] asking you um a thousand questions

[10:07] understanding what the department needs

[10:09] right now and what you envision you

[10:11] might need into the future. Um and what

[10:13] your overarching goals are for

[10:15] department um that also go handinhand

[10:17] with the goals of the city. Um we

[10:20] conduct a handful of programming

[10:22] workshops which we ask even more

[10:24] questions and get into um kind of the

[10:27] the high level and into the detail um of

[10:30] each facility that we're looking into.

[10:33] Um and from that we are able to uh

[10:36] prepare some diagrams that will help

[10:38] with a conceptual understanding of what

[10:41] your current facility is lacking and how

[10:43] we can make it better um from a very

[10:45] high level. Um and then a square footage

[10:48] analysis which helps us understand how

[10:50] much square footage do you have overall?

[10:52] What does each room have? And then it

[10:54] starts to show us what are the gaps um

[10:56] in spaces that you don't have that you

[10:58] may need um in order to house your

[11:00] equipment. Um make sure you have enough

[11:02] sleeping rooms for your firefighters. Um

[11:05] and then uh planning narratives which

[11:07] are more written um narratives that are

[11:09] useful for a professional cost estimator

[11:11] to take um and start putting some

[11:14] conceptual dollars um to each of these

[11:16] projects. Um uh and then that will

[11:19] inform um what what we think these

[11:21] conceptual cost estimates will look

[11:23] like. Um and not just hard costs but

[11:26] soft costs or project costs in other

[11:28] words. Um which are things like um all

[11:30] FFN items. So furniture, fixtures and

[11:33] equipment. Um this will include

[11:35] architecture and engineering fees, um

[11:37] permitting fees, um utilities estimates,

[11:41] things like that, so that you get a real

[11:42] round um idea of what the project

[11:45] entails. Um and then we pull all that

[11:48] information together into a draft report

[11:50] which um is complete and awaiting

[11:52] comment which will then get finalized um

[11:54] and be ready for consumption.

[11:58] Uh

[11:59] this this slide here uh is just a a

[12:02] again a high level understanding of what

[12:04] we're talking about when we are

[12:06] discussing needs assessment and

[12:07] diagramming. Um we go through uh what we

[12:10] call typical room diagrams and these are

[12:13] all typical spaces of a fire station of

[12:15] a modern fire station. Um and we'll go

[12:18] through and ask you questions about what

[12:20] you have now, what you think you might

[12:21] need in the future. Um what is the

[12:23] clearance required for that piece of

[12:24] equipment? um you know, does this meet

[12:27] your needs? And then we just go room by

[12:29] room and and talk about every single

[12:31] thing you could possibly imagine on the

[12:33] wall on the floor. Um and so these uh

[12:36] these images are sort of the the

[12:38] starting point for how we start to

[12:39] diagram because these will translate

[12:42] directly into a box or a block which

[12:45] then is used for conceptual diagramming.

[12:49] All right, Sarah Partap from Mang

[12:51] Analysis. Um that was sort of our

[12:53] overview portion of like what we were

[12:55] doing and how we did it. So now we're

[12:56] going to get into uh common things that

[12:59] we saw across all the facilities. Uh and

[13:01] then we'll go station by station and

[13:02] kind of give the high level uh portions

[13:04] of that. So uh for the facility

[13:07] condition assessment

[13:08] um the one of the primary things we saw

[13:11] was uh issues with pavement. You know

[13:13] there's the freeze thaw cycle here.

[13:15] There's heavy weight equipment going

[13:16] over them. So the pavement gets torn up,

[13:19] beaten up much more than other typical

[13:20] areas. and you know those can worsen

[13:23] over time. So that was consistent.

[13:25] There's alligatoring, there's potholes,

[13:26] things like that occurring uh at pretty

[13:28] much all the stations to various

[13:31] degree. Um another common one that we

[13:34] saw was the stations, although you know

[13:36] people live there, it is like their home

[13:37] while they're on duty. Um so but they're

[13:39] residential grade finishes in the

[13:41] kitchens and although it's a residence

[13:42] kind of um it gets a lot harder use than

[13:45] a typical residential. So it's um with

[13:47] residential grade finishes they just

[13:49] corrode over time. they get beaten up

[13:51] more than they would in a typical house.

[13:53] So, um you know, upgrading to commercial

[13:56] grade finishes though will last a lot

[13:58] longer. Um ADA accessibility is a

[14:02] challenge at every station. Uh Sarah

[14:03] Gladics, we'll get into that a little

[14:05] bit more detail later, but from, you

[14:07] know, the the right of way getting into

[14:08] the building to navigating within the

[14:10] building, uh you know, compliant door

[14:13] handles and door hardware, heights of

[14:14] drinking fountains, it just there's a

[14:16] lot of ADA um issues throughout all the

[14:18] stations.

[14:20] security. There's minimal security at

[14:22] most of the stations. You know, there

[14:23] are some secured doors. Um, but you

[14:26] know, most stations may may lack

[14:27] separation between public and private

[14:29] spaces. Um, parking is limited and

[14:33] there's just general security

[14:36] challenges. And then one of the largest

[14:38] ones was mechanical controls. So,

[14:40] there's the mechanical actual systems

[14:43] and the pieces of equipment like the

[14:44] chillers and the air handling units. And

[14:45] then there's the mechanical controls

[14:46] that program them all and tell them when

[14:48] to do what correctly. There's problems

[14:50] with both, but the mechanical controls

[14:53] were consistently um needing a lot of uh

[14:57] they're they're out of date. Some of

[14:58] them are not they're not ne network

[15:00] control, so they can't be controlled

[15:01] from a single location. You have to go

[15:02] to each station and kind of try and fix

[15:04] it. So there's a lot of uh problems with

[15:07] mechanical controls.

[15:09] Um and then probably the most

[15:12] significant from the FCA is the lack of

[15:14] dedicated maintenance staff. So we know

[15:17] that NFR right now the firefighters and

[15:19] the employees are the ones who are

[15:20] responsible for doing a lot of the

[15:22] day-to-day troubleshooting kind of

[15:24] maintenance and then the rest is

[15:25] performed by contractors you know

[15:27] maintenance contractors which one can a

[15:30] lot more expensive and two you know have

[15:32] varying quality of work. Some are great

[15:33] and some sort of just you know check the

[15:35] box and don't do the best work. So, um,

[15:38] there's a lot of issues that because

[15:40] they don't get handled when they're

[15:41] small, they escalate to be much larger

[15:43] and much more expensive.

[15:47] Sarah Gladex from Rice Fergus Miller. um

[15:50] a handful of items that we found from a

[15:52] planning standpoint um again lack of ADA

[15:56] compliance um throughout um lack of

[15:59] consistency in sort of modern or typical

[16:02] fire station spaces like bunker gear

[16:04] rooms um decontamination spaces um

[16:07] lacking some industry best practices

[16:09] what we see for modern fire stations um

[16:11] and then lacking some space for both

[16:14] current and new technology and

[16:16] firefighter specialty equipment um and

[16:18] then inadequacies in your fire training

[16:20] uh facility and

[16:22] grounds. So ADA compliance um you can

[16:26] see just for example um getting to a

[16:28] basement uh only via stairs would

[16:30] provide no accessibility. Um a fire

[16:33] station is a public facility. Therefore

[16:35] it is required to um be held to the

[16:38] international business international

[16:41] sorry IBC I'll just call it IBC. um uh

[16:45] it is required to meet the intent of the

[16:47] code as far as a public facility um

[16:49] using public dollars. And so there is no

[16:52] real workaround for compliance with ADA,

[16:55] but we do our best to make sure that

[16:56] it's um that it makes the most sense for

[16:59] the function and the use of the

[17:02] occupants. Um but you still need to be

[17:04] able to get into a building or get to a

[17:06] second level or a basement, for example.

[17:08] And that is something that's lacking

[17:10] kind of throughout the portfolio.

[17:12] um inconsistent Yep. Inconsistencies

[17:15] with some of these spaces like bunker

[17:17] gear rooms and decontamination rooms um

[17:20] is really important because uh we

[17:22] understand that uh decontamination helps

[17:25] prevent um bloodborne pathogens from um

[17:28] spreading throughout your station. It

[17:30] keeps your crews healthy. Um, and that

[17:32] decontamination space is where you need

[17:34] to be able to wash all of your gear. Um,

[17:37] handle specialty equipment. And, uh,

[17:39] bunker gear needs to be stored

[17:41] specifically. Um, and it it becomes

[17:44] degraded with UV light over time. Um,

[17:46] and it also has harmful chemicals that

[17:49] are integral to the actual fabric of the

[17:52] bunker gear. Um, and they should be

[17:53] separated after they've been used and

[17:55] cleaned and put into a room with a

[17:57] closed door. Um, so things like that,

[17:59] not storing them in in anywhere that's

[18:01] getting direct light and also not

[18:03] storing them um in the tub room, which

[18:06] is then getting diesel exhaust um into

[18:09] your

[18:11] gear. Um, industry best practices, kind

[18:14] of a a catchall for a lot of things that

[18:16] we're seeing um trends within the

[18:19] industry. Uh, gender equity and

[18:21] neutrality, um, such as having

[18:23] individual sleep rooms, uh, which you do

[18:26] well in. Um I think all but station five

[18:29] have individual sleep rooms which is

[18:30] excellent. Um and then also having

[18:32] single occupant restrooms with shower.

[18:35] Um it just gives a little bit more

[18:36] autonomy to the firefighter um when

[18:39] they're on shift and some privacy both

[18:41] acoustic visual um uh and also

[18:44] individual temperature controls. Um so

[18:46] that's something that we pretty much

[18:49] across the board are always doing in a

[18:51] new fire station. That way each occupant

[18:53] of of the space, especially during

[18:55] sleeping hours, um can control if they

[18:58] want it warmer or cooler, they want

[19:00] natural light, they want um artificial

[19:03] light. So blackout blinds and and sleep

[19:05] room controls um are very important. Uh

[19:08] non-porous surfaces again for bacteria,

[19:12] um bloodborne pathogens, um things like

[19:14] that being able to be easily cleaned and

[19:17] maintained. Um use of the tub room. Um,

[19:20] tub rooms should not be used for

[19:22] gathering um or meeting of any kind. Um,

[19:25] they should be used for a working space

[19:28] and should not have couches or chairs or

[19:30] tables for kind of congregating. Um, and

[19:33] so we do see that um, across some of the

[19:36] stations and I know it's a cultural

[19:37] thing. Um, but we will uh, we will raise

[19:40] awareness to um, the dangers um, of

[19:43] being in that space for longer than

[19:45] needed. Um, and then staff parking. Um

[19:48] again as Sarah mentioned um site

[19:50] security and site parking u we really

[19:53] need to have adequate parking for shift

[19:54] change. So the number on shift times two

[19:58] would be how much parking you would want

[20:00] to have at every station. Um which could

[20:02] be a challenge at certain stations but

[20:04] it's definitely something to

[20:07] consider. Um and then uh space which can

[20:11] be uh well if it's decontamination space

[20:15] you know extractors we see um you know

[20:17] in the tub room or kind of out in the

[20:19] open you know we really want to get

[20:21] space dedicated for um some of the

[20:23] specialty equipment um that will help

[20:26] keep your gear maintained um keep folks

[20:28] clean the station um you know there's

[20:31] new technologies that are coming out and

[20:34] um you know we need to be able to think

[20:36] and futureproof for some of that

[20:37] equipment that may be coming or that

[20:39] already has come but there's no room to

[20:41] implement into the

[20:44] facilities. And then just generally uh

[20:47] your fire training or drill grounds um

[20:49] have limited limited site availability

[20:52] um deteriorating deteriorating

[20:55] infrastructure. Um it's been the tower's

[20:58] been burned uh many times and um needs

[21:01] to be replaced. Um and then there's just

[21:03] lacking of of uh of training um

[21:06] objectives to meet the needs of the

[21:08] city.

[21:11] All right. So that was oh sorry Sarah

[21:13] Partap from Mang Analysis. Um that was

[21:15] our uh kind of overview of the common

[21:18] trends throughout all the stations. So

[21:19] now we're going to dive a little deeper

[21:21] into individual stations and facilities

[21:23] and their uh specific needs. So we'll

[21:26] just go in order starting with uh fire

[21:28] station one which is Amherst Street. Um

[21:31] the way we'll do this is I'll just cover

[21:33] quickly some of the top FCA related

[21:35] issues. So you know actual issues with

[21:37] the building besides the programmatic

[21:39] issues and then Sarah Gladex will talk

[21:41] through the programmatic ones. So

[21:43] Amherst Street Station that was that

[21:45] staircase photo I believe that Sarah

[21:47] showed on her ADA slide. Um that station

[21:50] one of the primary issues is moisture

[21:51] intrusion. The photo I'm showing here is

[21:53] just a example of the downspout not

[21:56] being directly connected to the

[21:57] groundwater drainage system and it's

[21:59] right over a crack. So there's obviously

[22:01] there's moisture intrusion that's coming

[22:03] down into the basement um which causes

[22:05] erosion and can cause mildew and things

[22:07] like that. Because this is your oldest

[22:09] station, it has a lot of hazardous

[22:11] materials. It predates all the laws that

[22:14] say what you can and can't put in a

[22:15] facility like this. So you know there is

[22:17] uh asbestous, there's lead paint, uh

[22:20] there's several noted hazardous

[22:22] materials there. Um and then the third

[22:24] big issue I wanted to highlight was just

[22:26] end of life HVAC equipment. So in this

[22:28] case it's equipment and controls I

[22:30] believe. Um but just you know boilers

[22:32] and things like that they might last if

[22:33] you upkeep them well 20 years and then

[22:36] they just need to be replaced. So these

[22:37] are at end of

[22:39] life. Um and as far as programmatic um

[22:43] deficiencies. There's not a dedicated

[22:46] decontamination room. There's not

[22:47] dedicated bunker gear storage that isn't

[22:49] in the tub room on the walls. Um there

[22:51] is not sufficient office space which

[22:54] would include um a firefighter work

[22:56] area. So kind of afteraction reviews or

[22:59] debriefs um report writing things like

[23:01] that. Um we're lacking space for those.

[23:04] Um and then lack of private single

[23:06] occupant restrooms.

[23:09] Sarah partap again. So station two Lake

[23:12] Street station. Um this one an

[23:15] interesting problem. The way the roof is

[23:17] configured is when ice and snow melt it

[23:19] kind of all converges in a single point

[23:21] which happens to be right over the

[23:22] entry. So, if there's large snow or ice

[23:25] melt, it can, you know, obviously get

[23:26] moisture on people that are coming in,

[23:28] but the ice could actually fall uh, you

[23:29] know, onto somebody who is coming

[23:31] through that door. Uh, there's floor

[23:33] corrosion um from I believe that

[23:35] probably the hydronulic piping and the

[23:37] flooring. And then again, HVAC, the

[23:39] problem with this one is the boilers

[23:41] themselves are at end of life and have

[23:43] been failing and have had uh fixes and

[23:45] patches and things like that, but

[23:46] they're needing to be replaced now.

[23:49] um programmatically um site parking is

[23:53] is an issue there. Uh we know there's a

[23:55] through road that goes uh right through

[23:57] the parking area um for staff and public

[24:00] parking. Um and so that needs to be

[24:02] addressed. Um there's no dedicated

[24:04] kitchen space for the admin since it is

[24:07] now headquarters. So level one um off of

[24:10] the public parking is is where uh

[24:13] firefighter administration is um

[24:16] currently located and they don't have

[24:18] the proper um accessory spaces for that

[24:22] use. Um it is a a relatively new station

[24:25] by the by fire station standards. Um and

[24:27] so it's been wellmaintained. There's

[24:29] there's a lot of good happening. So, we

[24:31] only really recommend um converting some

[24:35] sleep room or I'm sorry, converting some

[24:37] uh space in the living quarters at the

[24:38] fire station side um for single occupant

[24:42] restrooms and the rest is is in pretty

[24:44] good

[24:46] shape. Okay. Station three, which is

[24:48] Fitbook Road. Um this is actually the

[24:51] pilot facility that we did. So, our

[24:52] first station that we assessed um end of

[24:55] life roof uh the roof the the roofs are

[24:58] a problem throughout all the stations.

[25:00] Uh but this one in particular, this one

[25:03] is additionally challenging because just

[25:04] accessing the roof, you have to go out

[25:06] through a window. There's not uh

[25:08] built-in, you know, roof hatches. So,

[25:09] it's not easy to access. And when a roof

[25:12] is not easy to access, it means that

[25:13] you're not maintaining it as frequently.

[25:15] So, your roof drains can get clogged

[25:17] with tree debris, then water ponds on

[25:19] the roof, and then you develop a roof

[25:20] leak over time. So, having convenient

[25:22] and safe roof access is an important

[25:24] thing to consider in any fire station,

[25:26] any building really. Um and then the

[25:28] boiler and heat pumps at this one are

[25:30] also nearing end of life.

[25:33] Um from our perspective, this also um

[25:36] has a parking challenge and that's

[25:38] something we addressed in the planning.

[25:40] Um there's just not enough parking

[25:41] spaces um especially for shift change.

[25:44] Um and then this uh this station

[25:47] actually they had an addition. So, a new

[25:49] uh tub room was put in not that long ago

[25:52] um which enabled them to uh include a

[25:54] secondary bunker gear storage room. And

[25:57] so, they've got two instead of one

[25:59] larger single room. Um and this is a

[26:02] station in particular where uh folks are

[26:04] gathering in the tub room and that space

[26:07] could be uh very well utilized for a a

[26:11] dedicated decontamination room um as the

[26:14] extractor just sits in the tub room um

[26:16] out in the open. So, um there's some

[26:19] there's some great things at that

[26:20] station and there are a few challenges

[26:22] that could be fairly um easily solved.

[26:27] All right. Uh next is station 4, Crown

[26:30] Hill Station. Um this one is the newest

[26:32] in the portfolio. I believe it's from

[26:34] 2006 or thereabouts. 2008. Thank you,

[26:37] Sarah. Um and this one, of all the

[26:40] stations, we think this one probably has

[26:42] the worst HVAC issues even though it's

[26:44] the newest. The picture you're seeing

[26:45] here is of the hydronic heating system.

[26:47] And I'm not a mechanical engineer, so

[26:49] don't ask me detailed questions about

[26:50] this, but essentially, you know, it's a

[26:52] hot water piping system that goes

[26:54] throughout the building and that's

[26:55] what's used to heat the building. And

[26:57] the water in that system should be clear

[26:59] water. That water is obviously not

[27:01] clear. It's got oil in it. Um there's a

[27:03] lot of, you know, uh pin prick leaks

[27:05] that are starting to happen within the

[27:07] system. And we're guessing that probably

[27:09] the system wasn't um completely flushed

[27:12] during the construction time. You know,

[27:13] once they install it, there should be a

[27:15] full flush. And if that didn't occur, it

[27:17] can lead to problems over time. The

[27:19] water quality issues will corrode the

[27:20] pipes leading to those small little

[27:22] leaks. Uh so that's what you're seeing

[27:24] there.

[27:28] Yes. Uh since it is a newer station,

[27:30] there's a lot that is working really

[27:32] well. Um, I would say the biggest

[27:35] challenge is that it was formerly where

[27:38] headquarters was before it went to

[27:39] station two. And so there is a lot of

[27:42] unused uh sort of public andor um

[27:45] administrative spaces in the front of

[27:47] the station. Um and so being able to

[27:49] better utilize that um and get the fire

[27:52] marshals some additional space as well

[27:54] as maybe a true reception and

[27:56] administrative office space um and some

[27:59] storage uh will help that um help solve

[28:02] those problems. Um and then there isn't

[28:04] really what we would consider a true

[28:06] decontamination room. It's sort of

[28:08] utility catchall space um that happens

[28:11] to have some decontamination in it. So,

[28:13] there's a few minor things that can be

[28:15] um updated from a programmatic

[28:16] standpoint.

[28:20] All right, station five, Pineh Hill Road

[28:22] Station is the next one. Uh this one

[28:24] overall the building, I think everybody

[28:26] knows the building of this one is

[28:27] essentially at end of life, but just

[28:29] some issues that will highlight

[28:30] hazardous materials. Um again, this is

[28:32] one that has a fair amount of hazardous

[28:34] materials. The photo you're seeing

[28:35] there, uh the black squares on the floor

[28:37] are where um tiles have become loose.

[28:41] And so that's the actual the black

[28:42] adhesive that you're seeing, which is an

[28:44] asbestous containing material. And

[28:46] asbestous when it's not touched and it's

[28:48] intact, it's it's okay. You don't still

[28:51] don't want it, but it's not going to do

[28:52] any harm. But when it becomes uh

[28:54] airborne and fryable from, you know,

[28:55] people walking over it and picking up

[28:56] particles, as you can assume that's

[28:59] happening here because it's the floor,

[29:00] that is not good. Um, this station also

[29:03] has pretty poor ventilation. I believe

[29:05] the upstairs there's no cooling. It's

[29:07] just windows. So, uh, and a lot of their

[29:09] ventilation comes through operable

[29:10] windows instead of, you know,

[29:11] mechanical, uh, systems doing it. And

[29:14] the roof, another one, this is another

[29:16] one with the end of life roof.

[29:19] Um, this one, um, as you can see by my

[29:21] little paragraph there, it is deficient

[29:24] in almost all programmatic elements that

[29:27] would make a a functioning and healthy

[29:29] fire station. Um not I mean that's just

[29:33] beyond the hazmat issue that we have but

[29:36] you know fitness is happening in the tub

[29:38] room where it you know that is a dirty

[29:41] space um and so you shouldn't be working

[29:43] out in there um no dedicated um anything

[29:46] as far as operational um decontamination

[29:49] room bunker gear storage um and then

[29:51] sleeping quarters. Uh it is the only uh

[29:54] facility that does not have individual

[29:55] sleep rooms and restrooms. Um, and so it

[29:58] it's uh it doesn't provide any privacy

[30:01] of any kind for any of the crews to have

[30:04] um adequate and healthy

[30:08] sleep. So what we did was discuss um

[30:12] during the needs assessment and

[30:13] workshops, what would a new station 5 on

[30:16] Pineh Hill Road look like? Um is it

[30:18] feasible to remodel what you have? Sure.

[30:22] But let's think bigger and let's think

[30:24] into the future. what does the city need

[30:26] and what does the fire department need?

[30:27] And that's where we've landed is uh is

[30:30] enabling a new station to be to be

[30:33] discussed and planned um that also

[30:36] houses a citywide EOC and emergency

[30:38] management which is a really excellent

[30:41] use of a public facility to put in um to

[30:44] put in several entities. Um and you've

[30:47] got the room for it. Um, and you can do

[30:50] it single story, which was fun to figure

[30:53] out because all of your stations are uh

[30:56] more than one story currently. Um, so it

[30:59] was a really it was a great exercise to

[31:00] find out, you know, how many sleep rooms

[31:02] will you need? Um, you know, what other

[31:05] uh accessory spaces would you need to,

[31:08] you know, to handle more recruitment and

[31:10] retention and what can you provide your

[31:12] current firefighters on staff? um as

[31:15] well as um who do you want to bring in

[31:17] in the future and how do we make that

[31:18] happen? So just understanding the goals

[31:21] um understanding the needs um and this

[31:24] is where we have come conceptually.

[31:26] Sorry, you're good.

[31:29] Okay, next uh station six Conan Road. Uh

[31:32] this one again it has an end of life

[31:34] roof and it's hard to get on the roof.

[31:36] Um not great ventilation. This is kind

[31:38] of funny. We were our mechanical guy was

[31:40] out there and he was talking to one of

[31:42] the firefighters who's like, "Oh no, we

[31:43] have a ventilation. we have a ceiling

[31:44] fan. We're like, well, I mean, yeah,

[31:46] that moves the air around, but you know,

[31:48] actual exhausting ventilation to get

[31:49] clean outside air into the building. Uh,

[31:52] the cooling unit there is undersized.

[31:54] Um, so it can't really perform for the

[31:56] full cooling load that's needed at this

[31:58] building. And then this one is unique

[32:00] because it it has the fire station and

[32:02] it also has the mechanics area, the

[32:04] shop. And uh the heating system is

[32:07] connected. So there's like a single

[32:08] control for the fire station half and

[32:10] the shop half, which the shop half, they

[32:12] might have more doors open. they might

[32:13] have they have different needs than the

[32:15] building that's sort of left alone. So,

[32:17] um decoupling those heating and cooling

[32:19] systems would be a priority.

[32:22] Um, this station uh also I I believe

[32:24] it's had several kitchen remodels um all

[32:27] of which are residential grade and you

[32:29] know the the use and abuse of

[32:31] firefighters in kitchens and uh

[32:35] materials finishes um is understood and

[32:38] um I think that's that would be a

[32:40] priority is getting in some commercial

[32:42] grade um uh appliances. Um there is no

[32:46] real lobby or or obvious entrance which

[32:50] I think from a public standpoint is you

[32:52] know you want to make sure someone knows

[32:53] where they're going to go if they were

[32:55] going to have an emergency or they

[32:56] needed to stop by um also for security

[32:59] purposes. So that's something that we

[33:01] looked into when when uh talking about

[33:03] needs um and assessing what that program

[33:05] might look like. Um decontamination and

[33:09] bunker gear they kind of they're a

[33:11] little muddy there. Um, I think that we

[33:13] need some true spaces, some true

[33:15] separation. Um, and, uh, maintenance

[33:18] bays, uh, certainly need better storage.

[33:21] Um, both interior storage and exterior

[33:24] storage. Um, and they're woefully

[33:26] lacking in their, uh, very small living

[33:28] quarters and office

[33:32] space. All right. The fire alarm

[33:34] building. Uh this one I believe it has a

[33:37] heated uh floor, you know, through

[33:38] piping embedded in the floor, which is

[33:40] hard to replace because it's embedded in

[33:42] the floor, but uh there's issues with

[33:44] that. So that's going to require some

[33:45] repairs. The roof is at end of life.

[33:47] Again, mechanical controls, and this one

[33:49] houses a data center, you know, which

[33:51] generates a lot of heat, so there should

[33:53] be a dedicated cooling system in the

[33:54] data center just to keep it from

[33:56] overheating and failing.

[33:59] Um, a couple uh fairly major items at

[34:02] this uh facility is ADA compliance.

[34:05] Again, I mean, we've we said that on

[34:07] both uh phase one and phase two, ADA

[34:09] compliance is an issue. Um, this one in

[34:11] particular, um, and I say it very

[34:14] gently, um, but, uh, this is not a a

[34:19] station. This is not for firefighters.

[34:21] Um, this is for fire alarm and

[34:22] dispatches located there. Um, and you

[34:25] could certainly have a dispatcher who

[34:28] has mobility issues and there is no way

[34:30] currently to get a person up and into

[34:33] the dispatch room. Um, so that is an

[34:36] issue that that needs some kind of

[34:38] resolution. Um, and that's important

[34:41] because you want to make sure that um,

[34:43] you're able to have folks, you know, who

[34:45] are wheelchair bound or any otherwise

[34:47] have mobility issues um, able to enter

[34:49] and or work in the space. um generally

[34:52] just inadequate office space for the

[34:54] staff members that are are working out

[34:56] of there. Um and there is no real

[34:59] ability to expand um that facility

[35:02] because of the small site that is

[35:03] already too small and there's already

[35:05] not enough parking. Um so it's it's a

[35:08] tough one. It'd have to be a very light

[35:10] touch remodel um in order to not trigger

[35:13] um major code compliance upgrades.

[35:18] Okay. Then our final one is the drill

[35:20] yard. So, some of the condition issues,

[35:23] um, I mean, obviously the building is a

[35:24] burned building, so we did write some of

[35:26] that up, but we're not going to talk

[35:28] about that because that is the intent.

[35:29] It's supposed to be beaten up and

[35:30] burned. But the site itself had some

[35:32] issues. Uh, one, the type of pavement

[35:34] that's out there is not strong enough

[35:36] um, for, you know, the apparatus that

[35:37] are going back and forth on it. So, it

[35:39] is uh, corroding faster. And then, uh,

[35:43] the drainage is not great. So in the

[35:44] winter, you can see there, this is the

[35:46] summer, there's a puddle there where

[35:47] they're, you know, releasing many, many,

[35:49] many gallons of water and then it

[35:51] becomes icy and it's dangerous to drive.

[35:53] Um, additionally, there's no permanent,

[35:55] uh, like training building out there, so

[35:57] no restrooms or showers, so they don't

[35:59] have an opportunity to clean up before

[36:01] they get back in the truck and go back

[36:02] to their station.

[36:04] Um and at this current site, not

[36:06] currently where the um ConX uh tower is

[36:09] located, but uh elsewhere at the

[36:11] landfill, um there's an opportunity for

[36:14] potentially about four acres of

[36:15] development for a new training and drill

[36:18] grounds. Um so we use that footprint to

[36:21] um to discuss mostly with Chief Pulot

[36:24] and Captain Nielsen uh with training to

[36:27] find out what, you know, what are the

[36:28] what are the objectives for training?

[36:30] what does the city of NSHA need as far

[36:32] as different types of response? Um, you

[36:36] know, what are the props that you might

[36:38] want? And so, uh, we went really in

[36:40] depth with the training program and

[36:42] ended up, well, a train training site is

[36:44] always going to be very large and very

[36:47] expensive. Um so thinking about it from

[36:49] a phased approach, uh we felt confident

[36:51] that um you could get a lot of the um

[36:54] the infrastructure put into place and

[36:56] some facilities on the site in phase one

[36:59] and then down the road as more funding

[37:01] becomes available, you could really

[37:03] outfit it with all the different props

[37:05] and uh urban search and rescue, confined

[37:07] space, training options, um hazmat. But

[37:11] for phase one, um it would really focus

[37:13] on what you need. Now, um an outdoor

[37:16] classroom, a covered area with restrooms

[37:18] so you can train outdoors during all

[37:21] kinds of weather. Um relocating the

[37:23] existing ConX uh burn tower to that

[37:26] site. Um using the site topography in

[37:29] order to do some wildland um potential

[37:32] wildland training. Um so just that was a

[37:36] fun one. There's a lot of really fun

[37:37] stuff you can do with the training site.

[37:39] Um, and I think it would be very

[37:41] beneficial to not only the city and the

[37:44] fire department, but the region.

[37:48] Okay, so that was sort of the end of um

[37:50] the station bystation analysis and now

[37:54] more getting into the planning portion

[37:57] of the evening. Um, yeah, just a couple

[37:59] of things. Uh we discussed um in one of

[38:02] our first uh initial meetings or

[38:04] workshops um what does the future of

[38:07] Nashua look like and what does that do

[38:09] for response times um and are there

[38:13] developments coming right now or coming

[38:15] in the future where you're going to need

[38:16] to expand the service area or is your

[38:19] you know the response times are going to

[38:20] get a little too long from your current

[38:22] stations. Um, so what we did was just

[38:25] come up with, you know, what would like

[38:26] a satellite station be or or a smaller

[38:29] um smaller station that could go, you

[38:31] know, maybe nearby a new school or or

[38:33] other new developments in the city,

[38:35] maybe on the outskirts that don't have

[38:38] the greatest response times. So, we just

[38:40] came up with a prototype that would meet

[38:42] those needs um and then be easily

[38:44] adaptable at any time in the future um

[38:48] if if chosen.

[38:53] And we also did the same kind of

[38:54] exercise um with fire alarm um

[38:57] discussing those needs again and

[38:58] diagramming you know what is the space

[39:00] required um what are you missing right

[39:03] now in your current facility um you can

[39:06] ignore uh this the site image on the

[39:09] right but we just what we do is we use

[39:11] that as a test to fit and we we figure

[39:14] out you know how much acreage might you

[39:16] need in order to accommodate the size of

[39:18] the facility and the um associ

[39:20] associated parking requirements. Um, so

[39:23] we went in depth with Fire Alarm and and

[39:26] the folks there and and got their

[39:27] feedback to figure out what does the

[39:29] future fire alarm facility need to look

[39:31] like.

[39:36] All right. So, now getting a little bit

[39:38] into some of the costs for some of these

[39:40] pieces. Uh, Sarah Gladex will cover most

[39:43] of this, but we wanted to call out a few

[39:44] things uh up front. One is about the

[39:46] level of detail of the cost estimates

[39:48] that we're providing. So, From the

[39:50] facility condition assessment, there is

[39:52] a lot of those short-term and long-term

[39:54] deficiency costs, the predicted renewal

[39:56] costs. These are rough estimates sort of

[39:59] to plan your budget. So, rough order of

[40:01] magnitude. Is it a $10,000 project or is

[40:03] a $100,000 project, but we're not giving

[40:05] you is it a $10,000 versus a

[40:07] $12,60 project. So, it's really kind of

[40:10] um planning purposes, not a full

[40:14] estimate. And

[40:16] um an important thing we've mentioned

[40:19] kind of throughout is extensive repairs

[40:21] can trigger code compliance upgrade. So

[40:24] with the facility condition assessment,

[40:26] if by some way you were able to fund all

[40:29] of the deficiencies in a single station,

[40:30] like we're going to make all the repairs

[40:32] they suggested over the next 5 years,

[40:33] it's likely going to be a significant

[40:35] enough of an investment that it would

[40:37] trigger a full code compliance upgrade,

[40:39] which would bring in, you know, hazmat

[40:40] remediation, ADA compliance. It would

[40:42] bring in a lot. So the the costs can

[40:45] grow quite quickly if you're required to

[40:47] do a full compliance upgrade. Um and

[40:50] then getting into the LRFP, sorry, the

[40:52] long range facility plan costs, those

[40:54] are more they're taking our costs from

[40:56] the FCA and rolling those into a larger

[40:58] project cost. So the facility condition

[41:00] assessment costs are sort of a the intro

[41:03] level budget planning and then the um

[41:06] the long range costs will include like

[41:08] Sarah said soft costs like your internal

[41:10] costs of doing business, the design

[41:12] fees, permitting fees. They try to make

[41:14] their best guess at all in what are

[41:15] these things going to cost.

[41:19] Um some additional considerations on

[41:21] cost uh timing and escalation. If you

[41:24] know anything about the construction

[41:25] industry, you know that escalation and

[41:28] the economy are really big factors in um

[41:32] and the cost of materials and goods um

[41:34] and the cost of construction and timing

[41:37] um is really important because when

[41:38] you're adding in 4 and a.5% escalation,

[41:41] which could change, it could be higher,

[41:43] it could be lower. Um that's just going

[41:46] to make it it's always going to be more

[41:48] expensive if you do it later. um not

[41:50] because anything changes but because

[41:52] escalation will change and the costs of

[41:54] things uh increase over time. Um and

[41:57] it's also good to understand the timing

[41:59] of a project. For example, a new fire

[42:02] station um on average is going to take

[42:04] about a year to design and get through

[42:06] permitting. Um and it's going to take

[42:08] about a year to 18 months to build.

[42:10] That's fairly typical. Um can be

[42:13] slightly different depending on the size

[42:15] of and the scale of the facility or any

[42:17] complexities. Um, also customary uh 10%

[42:22] uh estimating and design contingency.

[42:24] Um, that contingency goes down as you

[42:27] have more knowns. So when you're early

[42:29] on in, you know, schematic design, for

[42:31] example, you're going to have a higher

[42:32] contingency and then as you get towards

[42:34] construction documents um, and well into

[42:36] your bid sets, your contingency is going

[42:39] to continue to go down uh because more

[42:41] things have been figured out. Um and

[42:44] then in the case of today um we we have

[42:47] added uh quite a bit of additional

[42:49] contingency to these projects just to

[42:51] capture any unknowns. Um you know you

[42:54] want to go in and ask for as much money

[42:56] as you think that it may cost plus some

[42:59] so that you're not going back out and

[43:00] and oh we forgot this or we didn't

[43:03] account for that. So we try to be really

[43:05] conservative with our estimating to make

[43:08] sure that you are covered. Can I chime

[43:12] in right here? Yes. Yes. So, uh, I'm

[43:14] gonna just naturize this a little bit

[43:19] because I I I get very sensitive at this

[43:22] as the typically the person who's up

[43:24] before you that has to explain the

[43:26] various project costs. Um, you know, I I

[43:29] tend to want to make sure we're very

[43:30] clear on this. So, the 4.5 escalation, I

[43:33] think that's low. I would I would carry

[43:35] more something like 10% for

[43:36] year-over-year escalation just by the

[43:38] New England market being the way it is.

[43:40] Um, and that's what we currently carry,

[43:42] just so everyone knows, four projects to

[43:44] to to be safe. Uh, relative to the

[43:48] estimating design contingency, we

[43:50] typically carry 15%. And I want to be

[43:52] clear, this contingency is reduced as a

[43:54] design contingency, but we have two

[43:56] other contingencies that we always carry

[43:58] as well, an odin contingency and a

[44:00] general contractor's contingency. Those

[44:02] contingencies are on top of this

[44:04] contingency. So, I just want to make

[44:06] sure that that's that's kind of

[44:07] understood. And then we're carrying

[44:09] anywhere between 1 and 5% for tariffs

[44:12] and and various, you know, inflationary

[44:15] factors right now on our on our projects

[44:17] based on what we're hearing and seeing

[44:20] in the marketplace. Uh and that's

[44:22] obviously evolving.

[44:24] Thank you. Y that's great.

[44:28] Um a few other things to consider

[44:30] related to cost um are uh delivery

[44:33] methods. So a traditional design bid

[44:35] build delivery method is usually the

[44:37] cheapest um which means all of your

[44:39] documentation is done and then you go

[44:41] out and hard bid it on the street and

[44:42] you take the lowest um what do they call

[44:46] it the lowest responsible bidder um and

[44:49] then you can also do alternative

[44:50] delivery methods which which are

[44:52] becoming a lot more popular um things

[44:54] like CMGC uh construction manager

[44:56] general contractor um or design build or

[44:59] progressive design build um they're all

[45:01] very great methods in their own Okay.

[45:03] Um, I would say alternative delivery

[45:05] methods can be a little more expensive

[45:07] on the front end, but you're bringing in

[45:08] your contractor early to help solve any

[45:11] design issues with the architect and

[45:13] engineers from the beginning. Um, and so

[45:16] there are pros and cons, but you can

[45:18] anticipate some higher costs with some

[45:20] of these different methods. Um, and also

[45:23] considerations for an owner's

[45:24] representative. Um, a large a small

[45:26] project may not need it, but you need

[45:28] someone to be able to manage uh the

[45:31] work, the project, the contractor, the

[45:34] architect. Um, so we like to add in some

[45:36] uh contingency or allowance in your soft

[45:38] costs for an owner's representative um

[45:41] for the project if

[45:46] needed. Um, and just an overview um for

[45:49] the new stations uh that are part of the

[45:52] long range the phase 2 long range plan.

[45:54] Um all new facilities are just you know

[45:57] one conceptual design option and an

[45:59] estimate. Um the training grounds as

[46:02] mentioned has a phase one and a phase

[46:03] two component. Um and then each remodel

[46:06] um based on on the needs assessment the

[46:09] remodels that were determined um have

[46:12] several different options. Um, just to

[46:14] give you uh an overview of what you

[46:17] could expect from, you know, more of the

[46:19] FCA data that Sarah and her team come up

[46:22] with. Um, if you're going to address

[46:24] more deficiencies and opportunities,

[46:26] it's going to be more expensive. Um, if

[46:29] you do all of the planning work that

[46:30] phase 2 represents, it's it's going to

[46:33] be more expensive. So, we tried to break

[46:34] it out so you get a little bit of a

[46:36] different um idea of the opportunities.

[46:39] So, option A mostly correcting all

[46:41] deficiencies. um and and opportunities

[46:44] being created. Um and then really the

[46:47] biggest component there is full

[46:49] planning. So option A is going to have

[46:51] everything necessary from the phase one

[46:54] uh FCA data, everything from phase two.

[46:57] Um and it's also going to take into

[46:58] account upgrades needed. Um option B is

[47:02] kind of like one tier down. So maybe

[47:04] like option A is best and then better is

[47:08] option B which would be you know some

[47:10] light refresh to the spaces you know

[47:13] getting new paint new

[47:16] materials you're not getting any new

[47:18] programming no new walls but you're

[47:20] getting something um and then you're

[47:22] also getting the priority items that are

[47:25] deficient um based on the FCA um and

[47:28] those would be replaced in kind so that

[47:30] will help keep the cost down and you

[47:32] hopefully can avoid triggering ing a

[47:34] full code compliance upgrade. Um and

[47:37] then option C is basically just no

[47:40] planning. You're not changing anything

[47:42] within the station except for when it

[47:43] comes to um systems and um

[47:46] infrastructure and things that are are

[47:48] deficient with the building itself and

[47:50] and its uh necessary

[47:55] systems. So this is where I start to to

[47:59] talk about big millions. Um, and I like

[48:02] to say big millions because it all feels

[48:04] kind of like it's not real.

[48:06] Like fire stations are are very

[48:09] expensive. Um, they need to um be held

[48:13] to a um a higher structural um

[48:16] consideration than other facilities.

[48:18] They're also public facilities. Um, and

[48:21] those come with hefty price tags.

[48:25] Um, these are all conceptual costs and

[48:28] they are also um, uh, there is a high

[48:32] contingency involved. Um, but we wanted

[48:34] to make sure that when we're talking

[48:36] about what your needs are, we're

[48:38] covering them all and more. Um, and Tim

[48:42] may Tim may disagree. I think our we

[48:44] have different numbers. Um but uh this

[48:47] is just giving you kind of an idea of

[48:49] what you can expect when you read

[48:51] through um the final draft of uh phase 2

[48:55] uh report. Um and so we're going through

[48:57] and we're we're indicating um visually

[49:00] what the hard construction costs are,

[49:02] what the soft project costs uh could be,

[49:05] and then what that total looks like. Um

[49:08] so if you were going to say we're going

[49:09] to do all of these new facilities, it's

[49:12] probably about $und00 million give or

[49:14] take. It's probably less, but again,

[49:17] being very conservative, we're going to

[49:19] estimate a little higher um because it's

[49:22] safer in this

[49:25] economy. And then again, just another

[49:27] visual of of what you can expect in the

[49:29] report is um going through station by

[49:32] station for remodels and then indicating

[49:34] what those option A, B, and C kind of

[49:36] that good, better, best um scenario

[49:38] might look like. And so of course it

[49:40] varies because you could pick all option

[49:42] C and then you're going to be on the

[49:44] lower end or you could pick all option A

[49:45] or you can do a mix. So there's kind of

[49:47] a range there um of what you're looking

[49:52] at. Uh and this is just showing um kind

[49:56] of some uh behind the scenes like when

[49:58] we're going through and we're indicating

[50:00] um you know what projects could look

[50:03] like. It could be a remodel. It could be

[50:06] um a new station. And in this case,

[50:08] we're just giving um examples of what it

[50:11] would look like to do uh re- roof and

[50:13] HVAC projects on all of the existing

[50:15] facilities. Um so that's also an option

[50:18] is to kind of pick and choose and and

[50:19] select projects uh based on priority for

[50:22] the fire department and for the city.

[50:28] Uh so now getting into recommendations

[50:30] in the short term. You guys I believe

[50:32] have probably already heard some of this

[50:34] information. Um but you know sort of

[50:36] decided the department has identified a

[50:38] few priorities. The first one is again

[50:40] working through all those HVAC issues

[50:42] with equipment and controls uh across

[50:44] the department. Uh repairing or

[50:47] replacing as many roofs as possible

[50:49] across the department. And then uh the

[50:51] new Pinehill uh road station, station

[50:54] five, which the feasibility study for

[50:56] that is beginning soon. Um those are the

[50:59] kind of the the identified priorities.

[51:02] And then getting into the the next

[51:04] steps, we're essentially done with our

[51:06] work for this project. It's more just

[51:08] kind of finalizing any comments,

[51:10] answering questions from you guys. But

[51:12] um uh the facility condition assessment

[51:15] report is complete, just unless there's

[51:17] any final comments or edits. the long

[51:19] range plan is similarly complete just if

[51:21] there's any final comments or edits. So

[51:22] both of those deliverables would be

[51:23] formalized uh as the final version. Um

[51:27] and then just you know being here

[51:30] ongoing to answer questions as you kind

[51:32] of get into it and then obviously the

[51:34] feasibility study for the Pine Hill Road

[51:36] Station is going to be beginning

[51:39] soon. So

[51:41] that was kind of the end of what we

[51:43] wanted to tell you and we're happy to

[51:46] answer questions. Yes. All right. Well,

[51:48] I'll recognize Alderman Clay.

[51:51] Thank you. I I don't think that it's

[51:55] anything that we weren't surprised to

[51:58] hear. I think um um Chief Buckston and

[52:03] previous chiefs have been kind of

[52:04] telling us that this has been been

[52:07] happening and uh something we need to uh

[52:10] um address and have needed to address

[52:13] for a long time. Um, and those the the

[52:17] things that you told us at the end

[52:18] obviously are something we need to to

[52:20] look at first and make our our priority

[52:23] and so on. But something that you kept

[52:25] talking about, you kept talking about

[52:27] parking and and so on. How would you

[52:29] address something like parking in a

[52:31] place

[52:32] that there's only so much right land. So

[52:36] how how would you address something?

[52:39] That's a great question. I mean you you

[52:41] you're kind of landlocked. Yeah. You

[52:43] can't exactly like mow down somebody's

[52:45] home just so that you have more parking

[52:48] spaces. Yeah. In some instances that's

[52:50] true. I mean street parking, right?

[52:53] Yeah. Amherst Street and Fire alarm. I

[52:55] mean, you're kind of just you deal with

[52:57] with what you can deal with and and

[52:58] that's that. Um but in terms of, you

[53:01] know, station two Lake Street station or

[53:03] station 3 Spit Brook Road, um there are

[53:06] opportunities for additional parking.

[53:07] And so in our planning documents which

[53:09] are in the final report, you can see

[53:12] where you know we're indicating there is

[53:14] additional site area that can

[53:16] accommodate sometimes it's just a matter

[53:18] of a couple of of parking stalls but um

[53:21] there are opportunities at several of

[53:23] the stations to accommodate more parking

[53:25] but yeah there are there are that are

[53:28] not just followup. Yeah thank you. So th

[53:31] those four items that you talked about

[53:33] like the HVAC and so on roofs. So, so

[53:36] within that report, do you actually

[53:38] break those down um and kind of talk to

[53:42] address those particular things rather

[53:43] than the entire

[53:46] um wish list? I mean, and I I say wish

[53:48] list and I don't mean that it's a wish

[53:50] list because in in truth, it's it's

[53:52] something that's honestly needed and and

[53:55] I don't I'm not belittling anything.

[53:57] Honestly, I'm not um HVAC is important.

[54:00] We talked about it here in city hall.

[54:02] You know, we we want the firefighters to

[54:04] have something more than I want them to

[54:06] have heat. I want them to have

[54:07] everything that that they need. I want

[54:10] our I want our equipment not to fall

[54:12] through the floor.

[54:15] You know, I I want our equipment to to

[54:17] be housed. I want our, you know, men and

[54:19] women to to have the facilities and so

[54:22] on. So, I think Sarah Yeah, she can

[54:24] address that directly on the screen

[54:27] here. Yeah. So, tonight we didn't want

[54:28] to get too into the details because I

[54:30] could go on for many hours. So we kind

[54:32] of just want to give you the overview

[54:34] but in the the report that's the facil

[54:36] so from the FCA there was two primary

[54:38] deliverables there was a an executive

[54:39] summary report which presented more of

[54:41] the uh departmentwide trends and issues

[54:43] that we were seeing and more about the

[54:45] methodology and then there's the very

[54:46] detailed report uh which goes through

[54:49] you know system by system within each

[54:50] building and describes what type of roof

[54:52] it is what we would score it on a one to

[54:55] five scale five being completely failed

[54:57] one is excellent and usually within

[54:59] warranty period so there's a lot of

[55:01] threes um except station five. There's a

[55:03] lot of fours and uh and probably some

[55:06] fives. Uh and then those individual

[55:08] observed efficiencies, each one that

[55:09] meets that threshold of we feel it needs

[55:12] to be addressed within a 5-year period

[55:13] and has a direct cost of at least

[55:15] $5,000. Uh those are written up as this

[55:18] page I'm showing here uh as just an

[55:20] individual deficiency. So, if you wanted

[55:22] to go through and like kind of pick and

[55:23] choose just individual spot issues, like

[55:26] let's just talk about the boiler and the

[55:28] controls at this station, you can look

[55:29] into that and see a more detailed

[55:30] description of the issue and the cost

[55:33] related to it. Okay. Did that answer

[55:35] your question? Yes, it did. Thank

[55:38] Alderman Solomon, thank you. Um, but

[55:42] first a comment. Uh, oh my god. Um,

[55:47] which part? Kind of the whole thing. I I

[55:50] know that, you know, we're looking at

[55:52] the

[55:53] um that we have a bonding resolution for

[55:56] tomorrow night, which I would assume is

[55:58] part of this. Yes. Um it's going to

[56:00] cross some items off the list.

[56:04] Kind of wish we had seen this before we

[56:06] started the budget conversation. Um but

[56:08] it is what it is.

[56:10] If you could, in your professional

[56:14] opinion, I'd love to know a letter

[56:17] grade across all eight stations and

[56:20] facilities that we have. Um,

[56:24] just whatever. I mean, you don't have to

[56:27] go and, you know, you're a hard grader,

[56:28] you're an easy grader. I mean, I don't

[56:30] know. I mean, your professional opinion.

[56:32] I mean, what do you think the grade of

[56:34] our overall NFR facilities are in the

[56:37] city of Nashville? It's a solid C. I was

[56:38] going to say also a C average. C

[56:41] average. Average there, you know. Well,

[56:43] C is an average grade. Yeah. So, five,

[56:45] you know, station five is particularly

[56:47] F. Yeah. Driving. Yes. Um, and then

[56:51] other stations like, you know, like I

[56:52] highlighted at station uh four, there's

[56:56] this significant HVAC issue, but that's

[56:57] a new station. So, you know, the way

[56:59] it's been planned, the way it's laid

[57:00] out, doesn't need a lot of changing. So,

[57:02] although some of them will have a major

[57:04] issue that needs to be taken care of,

[57:06] overall they're still okay. Um we both

[57:09] of our firms do a lot of work related to

[57:11] fire and emergency services. So we've

[57:13] seen a lot of different fire stations uh

[57:16] a lot in the Pacific Northwest and they

[57:20] have a lot of similar issues and you

[57:22] know we also do a lot of work just with

[57:24] cities and counties and assessing their

[57:26] municipal buildings. Nobody ever has the

[57:28] money to fund their buildings. You know,

[57:31] it's more fun to like build a new

[57:32] building, but a lot of times it's

[57:33] forgotten about how much effort and time

[57:35] and cost it really takes to maintain a

[57:37] building once you have it. It's not like

[57:39] maintaining your house. It's a lot more.

[57:40] So, it's not an uncommon position to be

[57:43] in. Um, even though it is it can seem a

[57:45] bit overwhelming. And I I think another

[57:47] point, too, is uh the deferred

[57:50] maintenance is is probably the the

[57:52] number one item just across the board. I

[57:55] think that um and I think part of the

[57:58] slide of you know no dedicated

[57:59] maintenance staff. I mean that is a huge

[58:02] hindrance because if you were able to

[58:05] to maintain all of these facilities from

[58:08] when they were built and then you know

[58:10] treat them that way through their their

[58:12] life cycle then you'd have different

[58:14] stations standing today. Um, some of it

[58:17] is as simple as, you know, maybe 15

[58:20] years ago you should have replaced the

[58:21] carpet or or maybe it, you know, it's

[58:23] like things just start to fail and then

[58:25] when you defer maintenance, the overall

[58:28] quality of the facility just starts to

[58:31] degrade. Um, and Sarah's right. I mean,

[58:34] um, the firm that I work for, we've been

[58:38] planning and designing fire stations and

[58:40] other fire and emergency services

[58:41] facilities for 30 years. So, we have

[58:44] I've been in a lot of fire stations, a

[58:46] lot of them, and you're not unique. It's

[58:49] not like when I say a C, you're that's

[58:52] bad. It's it's pretty average. And you

[58:55] have a lot of older facilities compared

[58:57] to, you know, the West Coast where we

[58:59] see a lot more uh newer architecture.

[59:01] So, see, and those older facilities,

[59:04] they do, I mean, they come with a lot of

[59:06] constraints relative to parking, but

[59:07] just what you can do for ADA compliance,

[59:09] you know, we kind of absolutely there's

[59:11] minimal things you can do. Um, so in in

[59:14] some ways, you know, they're you're

[59:16] doing your best, but it's it's not

[59:18] always going to work. I'm I'm kind of

[59:21] smirking because the fire alarm building

[59:24] was Lake Street Station engine ladder,

[59:27] too, with the crew of six people. So

[59:30] that means 12 people at shift change. We

[59:33] got by, you know what I mean? There's

[59:36] firemen. If there's a will, there's a

[59:38] way. That's why we pay them like that.

[59:41] I'm going to right now recognize

[59:43] director Cummings. He had some. So,

[59:45] Alderman Tivido, you're in the queue

[59:47] right immediately after. Thank you. That

[59:50] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Tim Cummings,

[59:51] director of administrative services. I

[59:52] did just want to note that um a couple

[59:55] months back, we've started a

[59:57] conversation about um enhancing our our

[1:00:00] facilities department. And so I've been

[1:00:03] before the budget review committee and

[1:00:05] I've been before the personnel and

[1:00:07] administrative

[1:00:08] uh affairs committee and I anticipate a

[1:00:11] continuing conversation with an idea of

[1:00:14] us increasing our asset management, our

[1:00:17] stewardship of our capital uh buildings.

[1:00:21] We need to maintain them in a in a more

[1:00:24] strategic way because it will save us

[1:00:27] money in the long run. Um, great picture

[1:00:30] that was shown at the kickoff of this

[1:00:32] presentation was the drains not

[1:00:34] connected at the firehouse. Um, you

[1:00:36] know, if the goal that I've aspoused is

[1:00:39] I'd like to get a maintenance team in

[1:00:41] and around uh our our city buildings,

[1:00:45] including fire, to to steward those

[1:00:48] buildings and the systems the way they

[1:00:50] should be because if we can squeak more

[1:00:52] life out of our systems, it will it will

[1:00:54] save us money in in the long run. And

[1:00:56] so, um, I say that because I I I I

[1:00:59] recognize the need, um, and I believe

[1:01:02] we're working towards a solution. It's

[1:01:04] not happening as quickly as I would

[1:01:06] like, but, um, I brought this up at a

[1:01:08] couple of the, uh, my budget

[1:01:10] presentations. Um, more recently at at

[1:01:13] uh, my last buildings and grounds, uh,

[1:01:15] uh, seeking approval on that

[1:01:17] department's budget. But I'm hoping um

[1:01:19] you know come FY27 in our next budget,

[1:01:23] we will have uh you know a better baked

[1:01:26] plan that everyone buys into so we're

[1:01:29] we're handling these buildings in a more

[1:01:30] efficient

[1:01:32] way. Can we go back to that recommended

[1:01:35] slide because I just want to just

[1:01:37] quickly address a couple of the items

[1:01:40] that were raised as priority projects.

[1:01:42] So Yep. So, so, um, it was noted a few

[1:01:46] minutes ago, um, there is a bond

[1:01:48] resolution up, I believe, tomorrow

[1:01:50] night, that's going to actually address

[1:01:51] item number two. Um, and then I believe

[1:01:55] also anticipated with that is some HVAC

[1:01:57] work as well. So, priorities one and

[1:02:00] two, we're starting um, uh, developing a

[1:02:03] pathway forward. So, we're managing

[1:02:05] these assets and then, you know, as as

[1:02:08] noted, we actually have money

[1:02:09] appropriated, set aside. I believe we

[1:02:11] will be, you know, kicking into higher

[1:02:14] gear the the feasibility study come this

[1:02:16] summer with it anticipated ending in and

[1:02:19] around January. My thought process at

[1:02:22] that time is and this is all subject to

[1:02:24] change is then we would be seeking you

[1:02:26] know an appropriation a bond resolution

[1:02:28] for design and we would start designing

[1:02:31] uh the Pine Hill station. Um once we

[1:02:33] have that understood better then we

[1:02:35] would obviously seek uh approval for

[1:02:37] construction. Uh this is all baked into

[1:02:43] the overall comprehensive conversation

[1:02:45] that we've been having as a community

[1:02:47] about what our appropriate level of debt

[1:02:50] service should be and making sure these

[1:02:53] uh various projects fit within our

[1:02:55] capital plan. Um, I think after

[1:02:58] tonight's conversation, um, we owe it to

[1:03:01] to to this body and to the fire

[1:03:03] commissioners to to internally discuss

[1:03:06] how we fit the puzzle pieces together,

[1:03:08] knowing the policy directive has been

[1:03:11] that the city of Nasha doesn't want to

[1:03:13] authorize any more new debt than about

[1:03:16] uh, approximately $20 million

[1:03:18] year-over-year over the next five years.

[1:03:21] So knowing that, how do we make that

[1:03:23] work with uh the needs that the fire

[1:03:25] department have as well as all the other

[1:03:27] needs of the of the city um and and and

[1:03:30] that's that's very much forefront in in

[1:03:32] my mind and one of the reasons why I

[1:03:34] wanted to kind of start that

[1:03:36] conversation this evening. Thank you,

[1:03:39] Almano.

[1:03:41] Um so I I understand that it was it's a

[1:03:44] u you know not a a firm number. Um but

[1:03:49] you your estimation was

[1:03:52] 102 million if I remember correctly that

[1:03:55] included the escalator.

[1:03:57] Yes that um information is for uh new

[1:04:01] facilities only. It does not include the

[1:04:04] remodels. And so that it basically it's

[1:04:08] a range

[1:04:10] of I guess let me back up a little bit

[1:04:13] um because I feel like maybe it's

[1:04:15] addressing um multiple questions or

[1:04:17] comments here. Um this information is

[1:04:20] essentially a menu. you know, it's it's

[1:04:23] for it's for you to to consider and take

[1:04:26] our professional opinion and the data um

[1:04:30] and the needs assessment and then pick

[1:04:32] and choose what is of most importance to

[1:04:35] the city and the fire department. So,

[1:04:37] that's why I'm saying like big millions.

[1:04:39] It's make believe like it doesn't

[1:04:40] nobody's going to get 100 million or 150

[1:04:43] million to do anything ever. But this is

[1:04:45] just the information that it puts a

[1:04:48] period at the end of the report that

[1:04:50] says the these are all of your

[1:04:52] opportunities and deficiencies both from

[1:04:54] a building standpoint, infrastructure

[1:04:56] systems and programmatic um relative to

[1:05:00] industry best practices. So this is sort

[1:05:02] of the this is the answer that everybody

[1:05:05] gets at every meeting that we have like

[1:05:07] this at the end of a project. It's these

[1:05:09] kinds of numbers. I mean, some of them

[1:05:11] are like 200, $300 million because

[1:05:15] you're just talking all in if we were

[1:05:16] going to do everything. But I just want

[1:05:18] to stress that these numbers are just

[1:05:21] representative of every single thing

[1:05:23] that we've asked and we've heard that

[1:05:25] we're needed or doesn't work and needs

[1:05:27] to be fixed or replaced. So, the numbers

[1:05:30] aren't real. I don't want to say the

[1:05:32] numbers aren't important, but the

[1:05:33] numbers don't really mean anything until

[1:05:36] you actually make them a project. Say

[1:05:38] that again.

[1:05:40] The numbers don't really matter. They

[1:05:42] only matter when you choose to make it a

[1:05:44] project. I I can't stress that point

[1:05:46] enough. I'm I'm very uncomfortable with

[1:05:48] some of these numbers because we latch

[1:05:50] on to them and then this is the number

[1:05:52] that I you know, you say to me, "Oh,

[1:05:55] we're going to do the project for this

[1:05:57] amount." I'm going to tell you right

[1:05:58] now, we are not doing a new station

[1:06:00] number five for $30 million. Just I I

[1:06:04] hate to say it, but we can't do anything

[1:06:06] for $30 million for new construction.

[1:06:08] That's just the reality of our

[1:06:10] marketplace. Um there's a lot that needs

[1:06:13] to be further designed and figured out

[1:06:15] before we hone in on the number, but I

[1:06:17] would say that that is uh that is a good

[1:06:19] jumping off point that to set

[1:06:21] expectations. It's not going to be

[1:06:22] anything lower than this. And that's

[1:06:24] just what we need to kind of understand,

[1:06:26] right? And that's it just really is the

[1:06:28] it's the culmination of all of the

[1:06:31] information that we've been able to

[1:06:33] process. So it go ahead.

[1:06:37] followup. Yeah. So, that kind of

[1:06:40] answered where I was heading. So, and I

[1:06:42] and I get it. So, my my point was going

[1:06:45] to be if we're talking 102 that had your

[1:06:48] uh combined 12 escalator in there. Um

[1:06:52] the escalator is included. Everything

[1:06:55] that is included. Yeah, absolutely

[1:06:57] correct. And that it's two years of

[1:06:58] escalation, so it's an it's 9% which of

[1:07:01] course we can adjust. Understood. Um, my

[1:07:04] point was going to be that director

[1:07:05] Cummings

[1:07:07] was suggested that it's probably gonna

[1:07:09] be 25 to 30% on top of that. Um, and now

[1:07:13] that this isn't even the full lot, I

[1:07:16] guess I didn't pick up on that. That

[1:07:17] that was just the new items. So, if we

[1:07:19] went with um from the menu and picked

[1:07:22] all our favorite flavors of all the menu

[1:07:24] items, I mean, we're probably talking

[1:07:26] almost $400 million.

[1:07:29] Well, I Yeah, I I mean I got we have got

[1:07:32] to talk because I don't know where

[1:07:34] you're getting your numbers and you

[1:07:35] don't know where I'm getting my like I

[1:07:37] but I do I really I'm very curious about

[1:07:40] and and that's kind of what I was

[1:07:41] looking for was just all right are we

[1:07:43] talking you know I get it big numbers I

[1:07:46] get it um

[1:07:49] but if there was any conversations that

[1:07:50] have happened that you know if we really

[1:07:53] want the best of what's on the menu you

[1:07:56] know are we approaching the 300, the

[1:07:58] 250, the

[1:08:00] 400 ballpark. His answer is going to be

[1:08:03] yes and mine's going to be no. Yeah. I

[1:08:05] mean, it really depends. It really

[1:08:07] depends. I mean, it's so amorphous at

[1:08:11] this point because there's so many

[1:08:12] details that need to be worked out. Um,

[1:08:16] and I don't know enough yet to comment

[1:08:19] more than that, but I mean I I I tend to

[1:08:21] shy away from commenting on deferred

[1:08:23] capital maintenance this whole side of

[1:08:25] the ledger because this is this is

[1:08:27] really specific and really complicated

[1:08:30] the new construction. I I feel much more

[1:08:32] confident talking about I mean and I

[1:08:34] don't know what square footage and we we

[1:08:37] could just go back to, you know, you

[1:08:40] know, station number five, the new

[1:08:41] station number five at $30 million. I

[1:08:44] don't know what they're projecting for

[1:08:45] square footage, right? And then what?

[1:08:48] 25,000. So 25,000 square feet and you're

[1:08:52] projecting what for per square foot?

[1:08:55] $500ish

[1:08:58] for fire stations. We're like seven. And

[1:09:01] I'm going to tell you right now, we're a

[1:09:02] thousand. Yeah. So that's just a jumping

[1:09:04] off point. And that's hard construction

[1:09:05] without even talking about soft cost. So

[1:09:08] at 25,000 square feet right there,

[1:09:10] you're going to be at $25 million. and

[1:09:12] I'm going to tell you to add another 10

[1:09:14] for soft cost on top. That puts you at

[1:09:16] 35 million. That's just the ball game

[1:09:18] that we're talking about. So, we we kind

[1:09:21] of need to talk through the details a

[1:09:22] little bit more, but that's that's just

[1:09:24] our market.

[1:09:26] And it's 10% cheaper here in New England

[1:09:28] than it is on the West Coast. That's

[1:09:32] it's wild. Yeah.

[1:09:35] Okay. Uh Chief Buckton.

[1:09:39] Yeah. I'd like to uh Steve Buckton

[1:09:41] National Fire. I'd like to uh thanks

[1:09:43] thank them for their work. Uh it's a

[1:09:45] great presentation as you can see it's

[1:09:46] very comprehensive and this is just kind

[1:09:49] of an a high level view for you tonight.

[1:09:52] Uh Adam's going to be the one that's

[1:09:53] driving this uh within our

[1:09:56] organization. Um you know this was

[1:09:59] kicked off because of master plan that

[1:10:01] we invested in for the fire department

[1:10:03] that laid things out for approximately

[1:10:05] 10 to 15 years. Uh we've done three of

[1:10:09] those at Nashville Fire throughout the

[1:10:11] years. They're all stacked up on the

[1:10:12] bookshelf in there. Some of them were

[1:10:14] done and they went on the bookshelf and

[1:10:16] really not a whole lot ever happened

[1:10:18] with them. I'm proud to say this master

[1:10:20] plan that we did in 2021 and this

[1:10:22] strategic plan um I have in my office

[1:10:25] chief roads before me uh myself and we

[1:10:29] go through and we update it uh when

[1:10:31] we're checking boxes off. This facility

[1:10:34] study was laid out in there to be done.

[1:10:37] This is just another roadmap for us to

[1:10:39] follow into the future. Uh I agree with

[1:10:42] uh Director Cummings, you know, don't I

[1:10:44] don't want to say don't get hung up on

[1:10:45] the cost, but until we actually turn it

[1:10:47] into a project, um that's where we we

[1:10:50] come looking for money. And I think the

[1:10:53] fire department does a really good job

[1:10:54] uh of working with uh the members of the

[1:10:58] board of alderman, the mayor uh to find

[1:11:00] our place in line, so to speak. Uh we

[1:11:02] recognize the pie is only so big. So,

[1:11:05] you know, $100 million is is a really

[1:11:07] big pie, really big piece of the pie.

[1:11:09] Um, and at the end of the day, um,

[1:11:12] somebody has to manage all this within

[1:11:13] our organization. And that guy right

[1:11:15] down there, he does a really good job,

[1:11:17] but facilities is just one one part of

[1:11:20] his area of responsibility. So, if you

[1:11:23] let me walk out of here tonight with

[1:11:25] $100 million to attack all this, we we

[1:11:28] we don't have the bandwidth to

[1:11:30] accomplish it at that.

[1:11:33] Yeah. So, but as as you heard, the

[1:11:36] priority items are already on the radar.

[1:11:38] Uh, and I'll be back here tomorrow night

[1:11:41] uh to uh speak to the bonds that we're

[1:11:43] looking to get work started. So, thank

[1:11:46] you. Yeah, I would like to say thank

[1:11:49] you, Chief.

[1:11:50] Um, in my involvement with the

[1:11:53] department of over, you know, for 35

[1:11:56] years, a lot of these stations weren't

[1:11:59] built. We have two that are fairly

[1:12:02] modern and even they have some problems

[1:12:05] you know due to uh lack of uh

[1:12:08] maintenance and everything but

[1:12:11] uh a lot of these are very old

[1:12:14] structures the

[1:12:16] uh I don't know the ethic or the new way

[1:12:20] of the fire service has changed you know

[1:12:23] we got rid of the horses years ago you

[1:12:25] know so we have motorized apparatus so

[1:12:29] stations can be farther apart because

[1:12:32] horses don't have to run that far

[1:12:34] anymore, you know, and uh you know, we

[1:12:38] actually invented the toilet. So, you

[1:12:40] know, things are working out good. But

[1:12:43] the thing is, the main thing is, and you

[1:12:46] you guys are on the infrastructure

[1:12:49] committee, you've seen it here before,

[1:12:51] past boards

[1:12:54] ignored a lot of this problems. Engine 5

[1:12:57] was built in

[1:12:58] 1961. It was built cheaply in

[1:13:03] 1961. You know, construction is good.

[1:13:06] The place hasn't fall down, but it's

[1:13:09] small, cramped, everything. Uh I was

[1:13:12] captain of the house there. The guys are

[1:13:15] working out on the same floor that the

[1:13:18] truck is on. And when the truck starts

[1:13:20] off, you do get some

[1:13:22] byproducts of the combustion of the

[1:13:24] engine, you know, and it

[1:13:27] stays in there. And uh I don't know,

[1:13:31] Chief Pullard, did you take him to the

[1:13:33] former Crown Hill station? Did not. Can

[1:13:37] you please, cuz I was captain of the

[1:13:39] house there, please look at that. You

[1:13:43] know, I mean, you will say they lived

[1:13:46] here cuz I went there and worked there

[1:13:48] and said,

[1:13:51] "God, it was bad." My first night at

[1:13:54] Lake Street Station,

[1:13:57] uh, I slept there. It was in the middle

[1:13:59] of winter time and I I couldn't sleep

[1:14:01] because the shades the wind was coming

[1:14:04] right through the window and the shades

[1:14:07] flipping in the breeze all night. And

[1:14:09] that just didn't happen the day before.

[1:14:12] It's the years of neglect until finally

[1:14:15] they got somebody to do this. We got to

[1:14:17] as a city, and I'm saying this overview,

[1:14:20] not just the fire department, but every

[1:14:21] single facility. Look at we almost have

[1:14:24] two parking garages that could collapse,

[1:14:27] but we're working to, you know, smartly

[1:14:30] so, and I compliment the mayor and and

[1:14:33] uh director Cummings for prioritizing

[1:14:35] some of these things. I know it's going

[1:14:37] to cost the taxpayers some money, but

[1:14:40] it's their buildings and they look at us

[1:14:43] to try to maintain them the best way

[1:14:45] that we can. And out of all the

[1:14:48] facilities that we have, the one thing

[1:14:50] to remember with the fire department,

[1:14:52] people live in them.

[1:14:55] They leave their nice cushy homes and

[1:14:57] their lazy boys at home and they go to

[1:15:00] the fire station, you know. So the

[1:15:03] facilities the particularly the male

[1:15:05] facilities and everything else like that

[1:15:08] and now in the fire service they have

[1:15:10] come out with right chief with more

[1:15:12] rules of contamination. When I started

[1:15:15] they gave you one fire coat and if it

[1:15:18] got wet at the fire and you were going

[1:15:19] out to your second one you wore the wet

[1:15:23] coat. It's the way it was. We were

[1:15:25] tougher back then, but anyways, you

[1:15:29] know, not like today, but I don't want

[1:15:32] to get it cheap, but it was the way it

[1:15:35] was because the city don't want to buy

[1:15:36] and they think now what we're buying two

[1:15:38] sets of gear and we have to meet the

[1:15:41] standards of the NFPA and everything.

[1:15:43] So, uh, as far as the living

[1:15:46] facilities, you know, I think we as a

[1:15:51] committee, if we focus, this is a lot,

[1:15:54] and I'm sure, and you stated that, I

[1:15:57] don't think we have to bite it off in

[1:15:59] one bite and chew it. You know, I think

[1:16:01] what we need to do as a committee is sit

[1:16:04] down with Chief Bucks, Director

[1:16:06] Cummings, and Chief Pullard and try to

[1:16:09] prioritize this. And I'm thinking we're

[1:16:12] talking the bond tomorrow night. And I

[1:16:16] think that's a good launching point to

[1:16:19] see if we're going to support this to

[1:16:21] see if we can mitigate the Pine Hill

[1:16:23] Station. But I see this as a long-term

[1:16:26] project. Uh this could take us

[1:16:30] unfortunately as what we did with the

[1:16:32] schools. We didn't build all the new

[1:16:34] school facilities in one year. We did it

[1:16:36] in the long term, you know, and we'll

[1:16:39] have to watch the bonds the way things

[1:16:42] are now happening with the economy and

[1:16:44] everything and we'll have to go with the

[1:16:47] advice of uh Miss Enright and other

[1:16:50] people that know more about it. I don't

[1:16:52] even do the checkbook at home so I can't

[1:16:55] tell you. So, but anyways, uh I made the

[1:16:59] money. The wife does it out. You know, I

[1:17:02] stretched the line. She stretched the

[1:17:04] the checkbook, you know what I mean? But

[1:17:07] uh uh we'll have to, you know, just take

[1:17:11] this in little bites and try to get it,

[1:17:12] you know, the important things and

[1:17:14] prioritize. Maybe we might be able to do

[1:17:16] a roof a year or something like that and

[1:17:19] you know, and take it value. And uh I

[1:17:22] think what Director Cummings is saying,

[1:17:24] I'm very interested and I've said it for

[1:17:26] years from the beginning. Uh part of the

[1:17:29] fire department budget is going out and

[1:17:31] buying lawnmowers and everything else

[1:17:33] like that to take care of the grounds

[1:17:37] and you know plowing and sometimes we

[1:17:39] need to help a DPW in some of the

[1:17:41] stations to get rid of the big pile of

[1:17:44] snow so that the drivers can see

[1:17:48] access and vacating the building and not

[1:17:51] cutting out in the middle of traffic. So

[1:17:53] you know they need help with a lot of

[1:17:55] these things. So, as we go in the

[1:17:57] future, we'll take the small bites, I'm

[1:18:00] hoping, and uh try to prioritize what we

[1:18:04] need to do, and we're going to look at

[1:18:06] you, chief, to come up with uh your list

[1:18:08] of

[1:18:09] priority priorities and uh we can

[1:18:12] mitigate that. And uh Chief Pullard,

[1:18:16] please take them to the former Crown

[1:18:18] Hill station.

[1:18:20] probably doesn't look much different

[1:18:21] than Oh, I I had a mayor come in and

[1:18:26] showed him when I was captain of the

[1:18:29] facility and he says, "I'm sorry you

[1:18:32] guys have to live like this and I'm

[1:18:33] going like, you know, but you worked

[1:18:36] there, Chief Bucks." Yeah. So, those

[1:18:39] were the good days, you know. So, I'm

[1:18:42] I'm glad we're on the right course and I

[1:18:44] thank you for your presentation.

[1:18:47] I'll have to ask uh what you presented

[1:18:50] on the screen. Can we get a copy? Yeah,

[1:18:53] I've asked I've asked Yeah, director

[1:18:55] Cummings. All right. Because then we'll

[1:18:57] put that as part of the uh minutes, the

[1:19:00] minutes and everything. Is everybody

[1:19:03] satisfied with their questions or

[1:19:07] comments? No, I think we're good. So,

[1:19:10] we'll move along on the agenda. Thank

[1:19:12] you, Chief and Company. Thank you. And

[1:19:15] it was good seeing you guys again. Thank

[1:19:18] you. Thank you.

[1:19:31] We can probably go on while they're

[1:19:33] vacating. They don't seem like to be a

[1:19:36] noisy group, so we can go on.

[1:19:39] communications.

[1:19:41] Uh, when are you guys heading back to

[1:19:43] Seattle? Tomorrow. Tomorrow morning. Oh,

[1:19:46] let's go to Reno tomorrow. Just like at

[1:19:48] home.

[1:19:51] All righty. Thank you again.

[1:19:55] All right. Uh, communications

[1:19:59] from Sam

[1:20:00] Dery, planning manager. Referral from

[1:20:03] the board of alderman on resolutions

[1:20:05] R25159.

[1:20:09] R25160,

[1:20:11] R25161,

[1:20:13] R25166, and the amended petition for

[1:20:16] street discontinuence regarding a

[1:20:17] portion of Veterans Memorial Parkway.

[1:20:20] Okay, there being no objection, I'll

[1:20:22] accept the communication and place it on

[1:20:24] file. Unfinished business, there is

[1:20:27] none. New business resolutions.

[1:20:31] R25156 authorizing the sale of taxdeed

[1:20:35] property located at

[1:20:39] 115-117 West Hollis Street. Um, Mr.

[1:20:42] Chairman, I motion to recommend

[1:20:44] approval. Final approval.

[1:20:48] Final passage. Sorry, final passage.

[1:20:50] Very good. Uh, director, you could have

[1:20:52] a seat if you wish or you're fine there

[1:20:55] at the Diaz. I anticipate a more

[1:20:56] transient visit, but that's okay.

[1:20:59] Well,

[1:21:00] Mr. Chair, I'm joking.

[1:21:08] Mr. Chair, may I? Yes, you may, please.

[1:21:11] Uh, good evening. For the record, Matt

[1:21:13] Sullivan, community development division

[1:21:14] director for the city of Nshawa. Uh,

[1:21:16] here on behalf of R251 156, authorizing

[1:21:21] the sale of taxdeed property located at

[1:21:23] 115 through 117 West Hall Street. Uh

[1:21:26] before I get into the substance of the

[1:21:28] legislation, which is albeit fairly

[1:21:30] brief in in the number of words, um I

[1:21:33] want to just note for the record that

[1:21:34] this address may be familiar to some of

[1:21:36] you uh sitting around the horseshoe this

[1:21:38] evening. This was actually part of a

[1:21:40] previous piece of legislation through

[1:21:41] the tax deeding process, but I'm going

[1:21:43] to give you a brief history and then

[1:21:45] talk about what this legislation does

[1:21:47] moving forward. U the property itself,

[1:21:49] 115 through 117 West Hall Street, is

[1:21:52] located on West Hall Street. It's a a

[1:21:54] 2-unit building currently with a parking

[1:21:55] area and a garage in the rear of the

[1:21:57] site. It's approximately 28.29 acres in

[1:22:01] size. Uh and was actually on April 21st

[1:22:04] of 2023 uh taken by the city of

[1:22:06] Nashville via the taxing process that I

[1:22:08] think you're all familiar with. Uh

[1:22:10] subsequently as part of that process in

[1:22:12] September of 2023

[1:22:14] uh via an auction process or the the

[1:22:16] city rather authorized an auction

[1:22:18] process which is of course customary to

[1:22:20] these properties. Subsequently on

[1:22:22] October 7th of 2023,

[1:22:24] um the property was in fact auctioned,

[1:22:27] but over the course of uh the coming

[1:22:29] weeks and months, ultimately the buyer

[1:22:32] chose not to close on the property. As

[1:22:34] part of that, they actually forfeited a

[1:22:36] $10,000 deposit, but ultimately the

[1:22:38] property was not closed upon and

[1:22:39] therefore the city has remained or

[1:22:41] rather the property has remained in the

[1:22:43] city's care over the course of time

[1:22:44] since then. Subsequently, as part of uh

[1:22:47] what I would call strategic discussions

[1:22:50] between the city's land use leadership

[1:22:51] team and the tax collection leadership

[1:22:53] team, um we had some conversations about

[1:22:56] this property in the context of the

[1:22:58] city's affordable housing and housing

[1:23:00] needs more generally. And admittedly,

[1:23:02] we've been having uh conversations in a

[1:23:04] variety of different ways around

[1:23:06] properties like this, particularly

[1:23:07] multifamily or duplex properties that

[1:23:09] may for one reason or another uh be a

[1:23:12] small step forward or an incremental

[1:23:14] step forward in solving some of the

[1:23:15] city's affordable housing challenges and

[1:23:17] crisis. And particularly we've looked at

[1:23:20] these properties in the context of uh a

[1:23:22] section of state statute that allows the

[1:23:24] city to dispose of properties through an

[1:23:26] alternative method if in fact

[1:23:29] disposition through an alternative

[1:23:30] method meets a public interest or a

[1:23:32] public purpose. Uh and it's been our uh

[1:23:35] conversation internally at least and I

[1:23:36] think that's why we're here this evening

[1:23:38] that solving or incrementally working

[1:23:40] towards bettering the city's affordable

[1:23:42] housing challenges is in fact a public

[1:23:44] purpose and in the public's interest.

[1:23:46] And therefore, uh, we've brought forward

[1:23:48] the legislation tonight to actually

[1:23:50] through an alternative disposition

[1:23:52] process put 115 117 West Hollister

[1:23:55] Street out through a request for

[1:23:56] proposal process. This will be familiar

[1:23:58] to you in particular you Alderman Tibido

[1:24:00] going recently through um, of course the

[1:24:02] Elm Street process. This is a much

[1:24:04] smaller scale. This is a very small

[1:24:05] property. it's a two-unit property, but

[1:24:07] ultimately the goal is the same, and

[1:24:09] that is to put out an RFP likely to a

[1:24:11] very small developer that owns

[1:24:13] properties of this size, uh, or perhaps

[1:24:15] even an area nonprofit that works on

[1:24:17] affordable housing. We would solicit

[1:24:19] proposals into the city. There would be

[1:24:20] a review team. We would ultimately go

[1:24:22] through the selection process, but the

[1:24:24] idea would in fact be to see an

[1:24:25] affordable housing proposal for this

[1:24:27] site at 115 and

[1:24:29] 117. Um, therefore, the legislation in

[1:24:32] front of you, just to overview, does a

[1:24:33] couple of different things. One, it

[1:24:36] authorizes the city to dispose of the

[1:24:38] property through an alternative method

[1:24:40] that is typically used, which is

[1:24:41] typically the sealed bid and auction

[1:24:43] process. In replacement, it allows us to

[1:24:45] go through an RFP process and put this

[1:24:47] this property out to the public and

[1:24:49] development community to respond to. And

[1:24:51] then lastly, it of course authorizes the

[1:24:54] mayor to enter into a purchase and sale

[1:24:56] negotiation and to ultimately sell the

[1:24:58] property to an affordable housing entity

[1:25:00] that will uh convert the property

[1:25:02] whether through demolition of the

[1:25:04] current structure or redevelopment of

[1:25:05] the site uh or redevelopment of the

[1:25:07] current structure that exists there. Um

[1:25:09] again, this is all underpinned and this

[1:25:11] is laid out in the legislation before

[1:25:13] you by the idea that affordable housing

[1:25:15] and housing creation and affordable

[1:25:17] housing preservation is in the public's

[1:25:19] interest. And that's why we're bringing

[1:25:20] this forward to you this evening. Happy

[1:25:22] to answer any questions that you might

[1:25:23] have, but look forward to working on not

[1:25:26] only this property, but potentially

[1:25:27] other smallcale properties that are

[1:25:29] taken through the tax deeding process to

[1:25:30] hopefully uh better the city's efforts

[1:25:33] towards creating affordable housing.

[1:25:34] Thank you. Thank you, Alderman Clay.

[1:25:38] Thank you. Um Mr. chairman.

[1:25:41] Um I guess the question that I have is

[1:25:45] does this mean that this sale can happen

[1:25:48] without the city having to recoup the

[1:25:52] back taxes or any of the the loss of

[1:25:59] um cost of of all of this? And the

[1:26:01] reason I'm asking about this is that for

[1:26:05] complete transparency, I will um I I

[1:26:09] don't know if I had this conversation

[1:26:10] with you or I know I had it with

[1:26:13] somebody within the city. Um I was

[1:26:15] approached um and I'm not going to say

[1:26:18] by who. um by an entity that was um

[1:26:22] asked if I would try to shepherd um a

[1:26:26] almost a donation of this property um to

[1:26:30] an entity um that wanted to

[1:26:34] um build homes something similar to

[1:26:37] this. And um in in looking into this, I

[1:26:41] I think I spoke to Miss Enright and you

[1:26:43] know the the whole process was this was

[1:26:46] not allowed and I said it would be for

[1:26:49] the public good and I kind of looked at

[1:26:51] that one particular process and the

[1:26:54] whole thing was that no the city had to

[1:26:55] recoup it and and so on. So I kind of

[1:26:58] went through all this whole thing. Um

[1:27:01] the the person said oh no you know I'm

[1:27:03] willing to try to do money and and so

[1:27:06] on. I'm gonna be on. It was not a a

[1:27:08] private person. It was a an

[1:27:10] organization. So, but I don't want to

[1:27:13] give the name and so on. Sure. Um, so

[1:27:17] that's why I'm asking this question. So,

[1:27:20] certainly, Mr. Chair, I I'll respond to

[1:27:21] that if you're comfortable. Um, so

[1:27:24] the the statute contemplates a few

[1:27:27] different modifications to the rules and

[1:27:29] and I'll ref I'll reference the two that

[1:27:31] you're referring to, uh, Alderwoman Cle.

[1:27:33] one being the the payment of back taxes

[1:27:36] and what's owed to the city and the

[1:27:37] other being the idea of disposing to the

[1:27:40] of the property through a a reasonable

[1:27:43] uh fair market value. Right. That's the

[1:27:45] other contemplation of the statute and

[1:27:47] and like you've like you've said we have

[1:27:49] had inquiries from several entities uh

[1:27:51] interested in in this property whether

[1:27:53] for affordable housing, market rate

[1:27:55] housing or even other uses. And so

[1:27:57] there's no secret that we've had those

[1:27:59] those inquiries.

[1:28:02] What the use of an alternative process

[1:28:05] or disposal process does is it does

[1:28:09] modify albeit indirectly the fair market

[1:28:14] value piece of the statute. And what I

[1:28:16] mean by that is if an public purpose is

[1:28:20] identified, there's it's not held to

[1:28:22] necessarily the same standard when it

[1:28:24] comes to what a fair market value is.

[1:28:27] Now here the fair market value metric

[1:28:29] will be fair market value affordable

[1:28:31] affordable housing development and so we

[1:28:33] still satisfy that section of the

[1:28:35] statute. To my knowledge and perhaps I

[1:28:38] should confirm this and I guess I'll

[1:28:39] commit for the record that I will. To my

[1:28:41] knowledge the need to as far as back

[1:28:43] taxes being paid that is not modified in

[1:28:46] any way by al by identifying an

[1:28:48] alternative disposal method. Those

[1:28:50] obligations still exist. Okay. That

[1:28:52] process still is in place. But what does

[1:28:55] change is the fair market value

[1:28:57] establishment that's outlined in statute

[1:29:00] that changes sort of inherently by

[1:29:03] moving towards whether it's an

[1:29:04] affordable housing play or some other

[1:29:06] use that's identified as being a public

[1:29:08] benefit or in the public interest.

[1:29:10] Hopefully that answers your question.

[1:29:11] Followup.

[1:29:14] So please um correct me if if I'm saying

[1:29:18] this. the the audience that you're

[1:29:20] looking at kind of changes because

[1:29:23] you're changing the the definition of

[1:29:26] fair market value. So, prior to that,

[1:29:29] you were putting it out to the highest

[1:29:31] bidder. The city can only still

[1:29:34] take can only accept a certain amount

[1:29:38] and the remainder would have had to go

[1:29:39] to the who you took it from. That's

[1:29:43] absolutely. Now, what you're doing is

[1:29:44] you're changing the audience to whom

[1:29:46] you're selling it to because you changed

[1:29:48] the definition of fair market value. Is

[1:29:50] that correct? Uh, Mr. Chair, I'll

[1:29:53] respond. That that is correct. One

[1:29:55] assumption I want to be careful that we

[1:29:57] don't make, which I've almost implied

[1:29:58] I'm making myself, is that an affordable

[1:30:02] housing uh development of the site will

[1:30:05] absolutely undermine the market value.

[1:30:07] That's not necessarily the case. It is

[1:30:09] possible of course uh but ultimately

[1:30:12] there will be the same obligation to if

[1:30:14] there are excess revenues as a result of

[1:30:16] the sale that same obligation exists to

[1:30:19] dispose of back to the the prior owner.

[1:30:22] I I want to confirm all of this outside

[1:30:23] of this meeting because I I do want to

[1:30:25] point out that there's a unique history

[1:30:27] and fact pattern for this property

[1:30:29] having gone out to auction having been

[1:30:31] entered into through a a purchase and

[1:30:32] sale but not ultimately closed. But I am

[1:30:35] fairly certain that all of the same

[1:30:36] provisions would apply. But I'll send a

[1:30:38] confirmatory answer back to this

[1:30:40] committee before this legislation

[1:30:41] returns to the full board. Okay. Thank

[1:30:44] Thank you. Okay. Alderman Solomon. Thank

[1:30:46] you. I just want to understand

[1:30:49] the process and what this resolution

[1:30:52] says. So you you said it. Now I

[1:30:55] processed it. Now I'm going to spit it

[1:30:57] back to you and I want to make sure that

[1:30:58] I understand it. The city owns this

[1:31:00] property through the tax deeding

[1:31:03] situation. There were back taxes. City

[1:31:05] took it over. Typically that gets

[1:31:08] auctioned off. Back taxes get

[1:31:11] paid. Everything proceeds as normal. In

[1:31:14] this situation, the city is going to

[1:31:16] retain ownership of the

[1:31:19] property for

[1:31:21] now

[1:31:23] until we get we're going to put it out

[1:31:26] to RFQ for

[1:31:29] um someone to develop it for affordable

[1:31:32] housing. Once that happens, at that

[1:31:35] point, the city will then sell the

[1:31:38] property to said

[1:31:40] contractor and and that money will come

[1:31:43] back to to the city to satisfy back

[1:31:46] taxes. I know I'm simplifying it, but I

[1:31:50] want to make sure that I understand it.

[1:31:52] Uh I think perhaps I should let you

[1:31:54] speak to my legislation moving forward

[1:31:56] because I think that's a perfect

[1:31:57] summary. Okay. Y with the one exception

[1:32:00] being that it will be an RFP process

[1:32:01] rather than a qual process. But that is

[1:32:04] essentially what will happen here. Yes.

[1:32:05] Okay. City will retain ownership. RFP

[1:32:07] will be released. RFP will reflect the

[1:32:09] values contained within this resolution.

[1:32:12] There'll be a selection process of a

[1:32:13] preferred uh respondent essentially.

[1:32:16] Yeah. Price will be negotiated.

[1:32:18] Ultimately, the sale will proc will be

[1:32:20] processed and then the same the

[1:32:22] customary process with the sale of any

[1:32:24] taxi to property will then go into place

[1:32:26] as far as being paid back. All right.

[1:32:28] Can I have a followup? Follow up. Are

[1:32:30] you able to reveal what the back taxes

[1:32:32] are on this property?

[1:32:35] Uh, Mr. Chair, I I actually do not have

[1:32:37] that answer tonight. I'm happy to send

[1:32:39] it to the committee perhaps as part of

[1:32:40] the the response to Alderman Cle's

[1:32:42] question, but I I do not know Alderman

[1:32:43] Sult.

[1:32:45] That would be good if you could do that.

[1:32:47] But also keep in mind where the person

[1:32:51] that bid it on the property defaulted

[1:32:53] and did not go to close. The initial

[1:32:56] deposit is in the custody of the city.

[1:33:00] 10,000 $10,000 went to the city, not to

[1:33:02] the auctioneer. That is correct. Let me

[1:33:05] confirm that there wasn't a split on

[1:33:07] that though. There may have been some

[1:33:08] split so I can get that answer as well.

[1:33:11] Okay. All right. Anybody else questions?

[1:33:16] Okay, then I will call for a vote. Uh,

[1:33:20] all those in favor signify by saying I.

[1:33:23] I oppose. Motion carries. Thank you.

[1:33:28] Will the clerk, please? Next on the

[1:33:30] agenda.

[1:33:32] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[1:33:35] R25-161 authorizing an amendment to

[1:33:37] resolution R72-75

[1:33:41] laying out common sewers as it pertains

[1:33:43] to the redevelopment of land in the

[1:33:45] Veterans Memorial Parkway redevelopment

[1:33:49] VMPR overlay

[1:33:52] district. Mr. Chairman, I recommend

[1:33:56] final

[1:33:57] passage of our 25161.

[1:34:00] All right. Uh you gentlemen, welcome.

[1:34:02] You might as well come up and sit down

[1:34:04] because you're here for two, right? Yes,

[1:34:07] Mr. Chair. Okay. So, why don't you come

[1:34:09] in? Welcome to the horseshoe.

[1:34:14] Well, Director Cummings be

[1:34:17] uh happy to I don't know if he wants to

[1:34:20] associate with us. Rip. No, I was

[1:34:22] actually getting ready to to get up to

[1:34:24] the to the podium here and I was so I

[1:34:27] was like, "All right, I might be." At

[1:34:28] least they were nice to director

[1:34:29] Sullivan this time. Director could join

[1:34:32] us here if you He looks especially

[1:34:33] sharp.

[1:34:36] I learned sharing this week.

[1:34:39] Alder woman Cle director Sullivan

[1:34:40] certainly looks especially sharp

[1:34:42] tonight. I know.

[1:34:45] I know. I don't blame him. All right.

[1:34:47] Since Director Cummings, you join us. Do

[1:34:49] you want to segue into this? Yes. Thank

[1:34:52] you, Mr. Chairman. So, uh uh again for

[1:34:55] the record, Tim Cummings, director of

[1:34:56] administrative services. Uh what we have

[1:34:59] before you is legislation amending uh

[1:35:02] some some contracts and some some prior

[1:35:05] agreements that we had uh previously

[1:35:07] approved because what we are here

[1:35:10] tonight to talk about is the Mohawk

[1:35:12] Tannery redevelopment. Um this has been

[1:35:14] an ongoing project uh that's been near

[1:35:17] and dear to to me over the years and to

[1:35:20] many others in the city. Thank you alder

[1:35:23] Clay. Um you click

[1:35:29] uh so um

[1:35:31] uh so with that being said uh the

[1:35:34] project was uh a little bit way laid. We

[1:35:36] were originally anticipating getting

[1:35:38] underway with con uh remediation of the

[1:35:41] site um uh last summer uh last fall.

[1:35:46] That didn't necessarily come to

[1:35:47] fruition. Um due to that we had to

[1:35:50] rework uh some some some of the finer

[1:35:53] details of the of the project to be able

[1:35:55] to keep moving it forward. Um I will

[1:35:58] leave it to the to the um development

[1:36:01] team here to to speak to to speak in

[1:36:03] more detail of the technicalities but um

[1:36:06] I believe we are very close to getting

[1:36:08] this project underway. Uh it is my

[1:36:11] understanding that we have received uh

[1:36:14] we have received or were about to

[1:36:15] receive the final sign off from uh EPA

[1:36:19] dees for 100% design of the remediation.

[1:36:21] That is a critical milestone. Um once we

[1:36:24] have that in hand, we really can can be

[1:36:27] off to the races for the remediation,

[1:36:29] which I still hope will be will be this

[1:36:31] summer. But with that being said, I'll

[1:36:32] hand it off to to Michael Develin to my

[1:36:34] left here, who can who can uh walk you

[1:36:36] through the finer points of of the

[1:36:38] legislation this evening. Thank you,

[1:36:40] Director Cummings. Uh, Mr. Chair,

[1:36:42] members of the committee, can you please

[1:36:44] just state your name for a

[1:36:45] transcription, please? Yes. Uh, my name

[1:36:47] is Michael Devon. I I represent Bllock

[1:36:50] Holdings. Um, I'm here with attorney

[1:36:52] Westgate. Uh, without Brad, this project

[1:36:55] would be lost. I personally would be

[1:36:56] lost, but um, greatly appreciative of

[1:37:00] his efforts and his colleagues efforts.

[1:37:02] Um, the Mohawk Tannery has been uh

[1:37:04] before this committee as well as the

[1:37:07] larger board a number of times. Uh, I'm

[1:37:09] I'm thrilled to be able to report that

[1:37:12] we're rounding third base, so to speak.

[1:37:14] Um, we received final comments on the

[1:37:17] 100% design from EPA and DEES uh last

[1:37:20] week. Uh, we've done an analysis of

[1:37:22] those comments. Uh, and we anticipate

[1:37:24] file filing the final 100% uh design on

[1:37:29] June 6th. Um this is a 2400page document

[1:37:33] um that is certainly extensive if not

[1:37:37] downright exhaustive in terms of the

[1:37:39] level of detail uh that the engineering

[1:37:42] consultants have gone through to to make

[1:37:43] sure that we remediate the site uh well

[1:37:46] um and and safely uh for the public

[1:37:49] health risk that it imposes. Um great

[1:37:52] thanks to the city staff for getting us

[1:37:53] to this point uh and all the dealings

[1:37:55] that we've had. I can't count the number

[1:37:57] of times I've had a 10:30 uh call or

[1:38:00] weekend call from Director Cummings or

[1:38:02] Director Sullivan uh to make sure we

[1:38:04] talk about finer points uh of the Mohawk

[1:38:07] Tannery. Uh the staff has truly been

[1:38:09] dedicated. Um as we all know, the Mohawk

[1:38:13] Tannery site sits along the Nashville

[1:38:14] River. Uh directly east uh is the

[1:38:17] downtown area. Uh it's a great area uh

[1:38:20] for development. Unfortunately, uh it

[1:38:22] has been contaminated for for a number

[1:38:25] of years. Um things started to change uh

[1:38:28] for the site uh when Blle Holdings uh uh

[1:38:32] ran by Bernie Plant at the time uh

[1:38:34] reached a deal with the EPA uh to

[1:38:36] redevelop the site uh by first cleaning

[1:38:40] it up. Um the EPA has since uh increased

[1:38:43] its commitment to the project from $6

[1:38:45] million to $9.5 million. uh that was

[1:38:48] approved by Doge as well as uh upper

[1:38:51] levels of the US DOJ um just recently

[1:38:54] and it's currently in public comment uh

[1:38:57] due to end on June 11th um in order for

[1:39:00] us to have that agreement uh perfected

[1:39:02] and and uh ready to

[1:39:04] go. Um the reason why we've been at this

[1:39:08] now for a number of years, uh Director

[1:39:11] Cummings certainly well before me. Um

[1:39:14] it's a a contaminated site. Um sitting

[1:39:17] along the Nashville River are these two

[1:39:19] large lagoons of carcinogenic materials.

[1:39:22] Uh those lagoons sit within the

[1:39:24] 100red-year flood plane. The tannery

[1:39:26] started in the 1920s. Uh I I wouldn't

[1:39:28] want to keep playing those odds if I was

[1:39:30] the city of NSHA. Um throughout the site

[1:39:33] there are also a number of uh scattered

[1:39:36] uh bits of the tannery waste uh as well

[1:39:39] as a larger landfill here uh which was

[1:39:42] on the uh fimble uh door property uh as

[1:39:45] well as scattered asus uh throughout. Um

[1:39:48] the goal is to uh clean up the site uh

[1:39:52] consolidate all the uh Carson jig

[1:39:54] materials into a containment cell uh

[1:39:57] elevate that containment cell over uh

[1:39:59] the 500year flood plane line uh in order

[1:40:02] to uh further protect the site. Put a

[1:40:05] permeable cap on top uh and then uh make

[1:40:08] use of the site uh into uh the

[1:40:11] development that you have seen before

[1:40:13] you. Um the legislation that has gone

[1:40:16] before the the larger board uh had

[1:40:18] various pieces to it uh including a

[1:40:21] revised master site plan. Uh that's not

[1:40:23] subject here tonight. Uh but that this

[1:40:26] depicts some of the changes that that

[1:40:28] were before uh the board. Uh before the

[1:40:31] uh committee tonight are two uh pieces

[1:40:33] of legislation uh

[1:40:37] R25166. Um this legislation uh

[1:40:40] contemplates easements uh through the

[1:40:42] project site to uh the adjacent Tamposi

[1:40:45] property. Uh one of the dealings that we

[1:40:48] had to uh uh do with the city uh was to

[1:40:51] lease the right-of-way parcel. Uh as

[1:40:54] such uh lease the rightway parcel

[1:40:56] through the remediation. Um as such um

[1:41:00] we now have to have the city join in

[1:41:03] some of the agreements that we've made

[1:41:04] to the adjacent property uh including

[1:41:07] access and utilitiesmen. Um to be clear

[1:41:10] though um tonight we are asking the

[1:41:12] board to table this uh bit of

[1:41:14] legislation until the June 11th meeting

[1:41:16] of this committee. Uh reason being that

[1:41:19] we just received um redline comments

[1:41:22] from uh council from uh the Tamposie

[1:41:25] family that owns the adjacent land and

[1:41:27] we want to attend to those comments uh

[1:41:30] route those red lines uh through

[1:41:32] attorney Leonard uh who's been

[1:41:34] intimately involved in this project uh

[1:41:36] so that the city is is accepting of

[1:41:38] those changes and then uh bring that new

[1:41:41] uh uh version before this committee on

[1:41:43] the 11th which we are prepared which we

[1:41:46] are already set to be before for a

[1:41:48] public hearing on a street

[1:41:50] discontinuence petition that we

[1:41:52] previously had 166 this one here. Yes.

[1:41:55] Yes, ma'am.

[1:41:59] R25161. Uh we are asking this board to

[1:42:02] pro uh or this committee to provide a

[1:42:04] favorable recommendation to the larger

[1:42:06] board. Uh what this uh legislation uh

[1:42:10] contemplates is a uh existing uh sewer

[1:42:14] trunk line uh which the city has uh

[1:42:18] along the river uh next to where the

[1:42:21] containment cell is and there's a sewer

[1:42:23] siphon over here uh as well as going uh

[1:42:26] further east. um amending the the the

[1:42:30] easement itself uh to allow us BLock to

[1:42:33] do work uh and install the necessary

[1:42:36] structures that we need for the

[1:42:37] containment cell um along that easement

[1:42:40] that currently exists um and ensure that

[1:42:43] the city uh will follow certain repair

[1:42:45] protocols um if they ever need to uh

[1:42:49] repair the sewer uh adjacent to the

[1:42:52] containment cell. uh our consultants at

[1:42:54] Halen Aldridge uh put together a repair

[1:42:58] protocol uh which obviously the city

[1:43:00] when they put their sewer in uh would

[1:43:02] not have uh uh uh known at the time

[1:43:06] because a design hadn't been uh designed

[1:43:08] for the contain excuse me the

[1:43:10] containment cell the containment cell

[1:43:14] um so uh our consultants put forth that

[1:43:17] protocol to uh city engineering staff

[1:43:20] engineer Hudson uh and his team uh and

[1:43:23] we agreed to uh what that protocol would

[1:43:25] would entail. Uh so this legislation

[1:43:27] just again reiterates that the city

[1:43:30] needs to follow certain protocols. Um

[1:43:34] and then ultimately uh we're we're

[1:43:36] projected close uh July 15th uh subject

[1:43:40] to change. There are so many players

[1:43:41] involved in this project um that uh

[1:43:45] that's that's the date we're projecting

[1:43:47] but it is subject to change. Uh once we

[1:43:50] begin the remediation it'll be two

[1:43:51] years.

[1:43:52] uh between uh remediation sign off uh

[1:43:56] and then uh start moving forward on the

[1:43:59] redevelopment

[1:44:01] project and and that that completes the

[1:44:04] presentation for tonight. Okay. Thank

[1:44:06] you. Any questions from members of the

[1:44:09] board? Autumn Sullivan.

[1:44:11] Thank you. Regarding the uh

[1:44:15] 166, that was the one that you're

[1:44:17] requesting to the table. Yes. That had

[1:44:19] the red lines issue. any um I don't know

[1:44:21] what you can reveal, what you can't, but

[1:44:24] have you taken a glance at the red

[1:44:25] lines? Anything that that you see is uh

[1:44:28] troubling or maybe non-negotiable or

[1:44:31] anything any any landmines there that

[1:44:34] you see? The one of the beauties of this

[1:44:35] project is most people defer to attorney

[1:44:37] West in terms of the redlinining and his

[1:44:40] knowledge base. Uh so I have seen the uh

[1:44:43] red lines because Brad wrote them. Yeah.

[1:44:45] Okay. But I'll let him answer that

[1:44:47] specific question if that that's okay

[1:44:49] with Mr. Sure. If I may, Mr. Chairman.

[1:44:51] Sure.

[1:44:53] Thank you again for the record. Brad

[1:44:54] Westgate, lawyer with Winer and Bennett,

[1:44:56] 402 Ammerst Street here in NSHA. Um the

[1:45:00] the red lines were creations uh that we

[1:45:03] made today. We, my colleague Barbara

[1:45:05] Halevy and I did um as the initial

[1:45:08] drafts people of the uh easement

[1:45:10] document based on a conversation we had

[1:45:13] with council for the Temposi entities.

[1:45:16] Um fundamentally the red lines are to

[1:45:19] simplify a complex little aspect of this

[1:45:23] um document that um I initially drafted

[1:45:26] which with some comment now having

[1:45:28] received from uh the Champosies council

[1:45:31] I can see a way to simplify it and also

[1:45:34] to indicate how we had to add the city

[1:45:37] as what I call an accommodation party to

[1:45:39] the easement as Mr. Devon noted the

[1:45:45] instead of acquiring fee simple full

[1:45:47] ownership of the 4.4 4 acres that's

[1:45:50] coming out of the Veterans Memorial

[1:45:52] Parkway right away. That's part of the

[1:45:53] site. We're going to lease it for a time

[1:45:56] frame, but because of the commitments to

[1:45:58] the Temposies both under our master

[1:46:02] development agreement and also the

[1:46:04] original legislation that contemplated

[1:46:06] ultimate redevelopment of the Tannery

[1:46:08] site, um we need to grant them these

[1:46:10] easements uh upfront, if you will. So

[1:46:14] that necessitated some structural

[1:46:17] changes to the document which are

[1:46:19] reflected in these red lines. I don't

[1:46:21] think any of what we've done is going to

[1:46:23] be a showstopper um both with the

[1:46:25] Tamposies and with city staff and

[1:46:27] attorney Leonard. Um but I do have to

[1:46:29] walk through um with the Temposies those

[1:46:32] changes better and also certainly bring

[1:46:35] city staff up to speed with the why

[1:46:37] we've approached it the way we did.

[1:46:38] Okay. Thank you.

[1:46:41] Okay. Any other

[1:46:43] questions? Okay, seeing none, I'll call

[1:46:46] for the vote. All those in favor signify

[1:46:50] by saying I. I. Opposed. Motion

[1:46:55] carries. And right now we're on to R

[1:46:59] 25166 and I'll entertain by

[1:47:02] recommendation a motion to table.

[1:47:05] Alderman Clay. Yes.

[1:47:08] R25-166 authorizing the city of

[1:47:10] Nashville to join in the granting of an

[1:47:12] easement for the benefit of map 62 lot

[1:47:16] 100 and adjacent adjacent land in

[1:47:20] connection with the redevelopment of the

[1:47:21] former Mohawk tannery site. Mr.

[1:47:24] Chairman, I recommend table to the next

[1:47:27] meeting of June 11th.

[1:47:31] Okay. And any uh discussion on that? Not

[1:47:35] a table. No, I think he can have that.

[1:47:38] No, not a table. Not on a tableling. No.

[1:47:40] Um but I would like to say June 11th.

[1:47:43] I'll have to check with the

[1:47:44] administrative.

[1:47:46] Uh we we do have a one of those intram

[1:47:49] meetings. Yeah. Yeah. The booking if

[1:47:52] it's available. Um so if you could check

[1:47:54] with Don or I'll have Donna check June

[1:47:56] 11th tentative to the Yeah. the clerk.

[1:47:59] Mr. Chair, just if I may, um I believe

[1:48:02] that notice has already gone out for a

[1:48:03] public hearing for that night because

[1:48:06] there's a there's a petition uh for

[1:48:08] street discontinuence that we had to

[1:48:09] amend uh based on uh these changes.

[1:48:12] Well, if that's the case, that's

[1:48:14] beautiful. Okay, good, Mr. Chair. All

[1:48:16] right. I didn't want you to count on the

[1:48:17] 11th and then we get something to

[1:48:20] arrive. Okay. All right. The motion is

[1:48:23] the table. All those in favor signify by

[1:48:25] saying I. I oppose. Motion carries.

[1:48:30] Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you very

[1:48:31] much. Thank you very much. Okay. New

[1:48:33] business ordinances. There is none.

[1:48:36] Petitions, there is none. We do have

[1:48:39] another item that is table, but it's not

[1:48:42] going to come off the table. Nobody's

[1:48:43] shown

[1:48:44] interest. And um there's another one.

[1:48:48] We'll leave that one on the table. Well,

[1:48:49] yeah, it's petition for that's been

[1:48:52] tabled for a while there, too. So,

[1:48:54] general discussion.

[1:48:57] Yes,

[1:48:59] just I wasn't vocal on the the first

[1:49:02] motions. I don't know if you had me as a

[1:49:04] yes. I was confused for a second on

[1:49:06] whether which one we were voting for. So

[1:49:08] I'm a yes on 161. Oh, okay. And to table

[1:49:11] on 166. I got confused at which one we

[1:49:14] were Okay. You voted in the affirmative.

[1:49:19] Correct.

[1:49:22] Yeah. Okay. And there's nobody here for

[1:49:25] public comment and remarks by alderman

[1:49:27] is the same as general discussion. I

[1:49:30] agree. I get confused by those too.

[1:49:32] Yeah, we can we were looking to modify

[1:49:35] splitting hairs. Mike, yeah, I know.

[1:49:37] Unless somebody has something that want

[1:49:39] to share. Oh, good. Good. I think we

[1:49:41] should get rid of general discussion and

[1:49:42] just go straight to I would agree with

[1:49:45] that. Mark's bike. I think they're

[1:49:47] working on it. Yeah.

[1:49:49] All right. And so now I'll look to

[1:49:52] Alderman Clay for the next motion. Your

[1:49:54] favorite one? Yes indeed.

[1:49:57] I'd like to motion to adjurnn. Okay. The

[1:50:01] motion is to adjurnn. All those in favor

[1:50:03] signify by saying I. I. Oppose. Motion

[1:50:07] carries. Uh, and I'll declare the

[1:50:10] meeting closed at uh 8:50 p.m.

Committee on Infrastructure

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