[0:00] in so many ways. Lord, especially we want to thank you for our town that we

[0:04] live in. We want to thank thee for those who serve so faithfully in the offices

[0:09] of the town. We ask that you give them wisdom to be able to decide those things

[0:13] which come before them as they go through these meetings. Lord, be with

[0:17] them tonight and be with all of the town employees and workers so that they would

[0:22] work to the best of their ability. And Lord, even be with the people who

[0:27] sometimes might be disgruntled about this or that, but give them patience and

[0:30] understanding and and so that we can all continue as citizens of this town to

[0:34] work together and go forward according to that which is right. Lord, bless each

[0:40] of us in in every way. And we thank thee once again for for this tongue, for the

[0:47] servants, but most of all, we thank thee for Jesus who his suffering death on a

[0:52] cross. His glor glorious resurrection. Through that we

[0:56] have eternal life. In Jesus name we pray.

[0:58] » Amen. >> Thank you. [clears throat]

[1:02] » Thanks John.

[1:05] » Thank you. >> All right.

[1:07] » Have a good night.

[1:16] » How you doing? >> Good afternoon chief.

[1:18] » Evening. >> That water looks tasty.

[1:22] » Yeah. rather be swimming, but here I am.

[1:27] [laughter] >> Rather be swimming.

[1:28] » Yeah, I love to swim. >> Love being in the lake of the water.

[1:32] » Love it. >> Water's nice and warm this time of year.

[1:36] Still, >> you know, peak.

[1:40] » Yeah, I was out. It was 72 to 73 all day.

[1:44] » Really? >> Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah.

[1:47] » Yeah. We were out >> out on the boat.

[1:49] » Yeah. >> First time in two years. Jeez, really

[1:52] got it done. >> Yeah, we've got out there.

[1:54] » Yeah, nice. Awesome. >> Yeah, same.

[1:55] » Kids had a blast. >> Oh, cool.

[1:57] » Yeah, it's one of my favorite things about boing.

[2:00] » Yeah, >> it's definitely

[2:03] » It's uh >> good time.

[2:05] » What did they What do they say? It's long periods of relaxed enjoyment

[2:12] interrupted by [laughter] brief moments of full adrenaline.

[2:17] » Yeah. >> Yeah. You get that.

[2:19] » Yeah. and money, right? >> Oh, and money. Yeah.

[2:24] » But they're worth it.

[2:31] » Just to remind you, >> in the

[2:36] select office. >> Oh,

[2:39] » I just did. You were looking for a minute ago.

[2:41] » Oh, yeah. He's >> He's wandering around the building

[2:43] somewhere. >> Well, he'll be here.

[2:47] » Yeah. >> Okay.

[2:48] Yeah, he just pulled in. >> Yeah, I'll wait to get

[2:53] [clears throat] >> Yeah, I just want to remind you to sign

[2:55] the stuff in the drawer because there's two pay things in there and the payroll

[2:59] is in there. The AP will be in there tomorrow.

[3:02] » Yeah. >> If you have an ability to sign up

[3:06] tomorrow, that' be great. >> Yeah. Yeah.

[3:11] » That is how it has been going.

[3:35] Hey, good evening. Hi, everybody. >> Good afternoon. Evening.

[3:42] » Good night. >> How are you?

[3:47] » Hi, Stephanie. Hi.

[4:06] » [snorts]

[5:01] » All right. Can we

[5:04] open this meeting with the pledge?

[5:09] Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

[5:14] republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[5:21] justice for all.

[5:24] » All right. Good evening everyone.

[5:28] Once again, a light agenda. I think these light agendas are going to

[5:36] be a thing of the past soon as we head into budget season.

[5:40] So, we'll enjoy it. While we have it, uh we have Chief Ael here to discuss uh

[5:50] police detail billing rates and some proposed changes both to the rates and

[5:56] to the ordinance. And

[6:00] we have Stephanie just here

[6:05] as well as Mary. Okay. And then we have round table.

[6:13] » Further ado to not delay the chief. Why don't you do him first?

[6:17] » Yeah, that's I think that's all we have. Oh, on our agenda printed off it says

[6:21] update from administrator. But I would like to sure.

[6:24] » Yeah, as usual.

[6:30] the chief wants to go over his.

[6:35] » Yep. Floor is yours. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh yeah, I just was

[6:39] want to come before the board and the town today just to propose um some

[6:43] amendments uh that hopefully will be adopted to our town of Winter's town

[6:48] ordinance, please details. Um this ordinance was originally adopted in

[6:53] October of 202. Yeah, almost a few years ago. Um, my

[7:00] main focus this time as I did draft the letter for the board. Um, just

[7:05] explaining what our billing fee structure was in October 23 and then

[7:09] what I'm proposing u for the fee structure and uh for this um adoption if

[7:15] taken. So 2026 do we have that letter? >> This right here.

[7:20] » Yep. >> Is that the bottom?

[7:21] » Correct. >> The bottom is 2026.

[7:23] » Correct. Yes sir. Yeah. So the top two tables are our current uh fees and the

[7:28] bottom two tables would be the proposed changes to our fees.

[7:35] And most of the changes that would be uh that I'm requesting would affect um

[7:41] section 6.0 or section six of the detail rates. Um

[7:47] and I did draft a proposal of the changes and uh they should be in red and

[7:52] I think I gave them to It'll be in faint.

[7:56] » It'll be in faint on years. These are the changes.

[8:00] » Basically, >> so that's a 60.

[8:03] » Yeah. On section six. >> Okay.

[8:05] » Yeah. >> And I tried to do it a little bit more

[8:08] detailed this time because some of the um businesses that were using our

[8:13] services um they would we came up with some regular questions. I'm like, well,

[8:17] maybe I can make it more clear in detail ordinance what the fee structure is. So

[8:21] that's why I did that in a table um underneath uh 6.5 with the proposed new

[8:27] rates. Um so that that's what it is. Um I'm proposing that the the detail rate

[8:34] paid to the officers go up to $72 $60 the admin fee of 25 cruiser fee of 16

[8:40] with a total billing of $113 an hour. Um that's up um $13 from the 2023

[8:49] um uh costs. Um and then on the um after eight hours holidays and weekends

[8:57] pay um that went from $90 an hour, 37.50 50 for admin, 15 for cruiser for a total

[9:04] of 142 uh to a new total of $100 for the office of admin fee is 33 cruiser 16 a

[9:12] total of 149 so up $7. So those are really the proposal of the

[9:19] changes and the reason for my request is you know officers take these as a extra

[9:25] duty pay um paid primarily by private companies or um establishments or groups

[9:34] um and to stay competitive what with what other um agencies are offering um

[9:42] would keep us in the realm. I did a study um

[9:46] with eight other agencies and what their current uh officer rate is. So,

[9:50] Hillsboro County Sheriff Office pays the officers get 94 an hour. Ring is 75 an

[9:55] hour. Francis P 75 an hour. Peter 74 an hour. Greenfield 70. Jeffrey 6966,

[10:02] Temple Green was 65, Bolton PD 65. That's $587 and change divided by eight

[10:09] is the average of $7345 was the average. So that's how I came up

[10:15] with $72. Stick around the average.

[10:20] » What were Could you read them off a little slower?

[10:23] » Yeah, you want >> I just like Oh, you have a print out of

[10:26] it. >> Oh, okay.

[10:27] » This one's cleaner. I give you this one. This one has a bunch of

[10:33] » Thank you.

[10:53] So there was none of these. We were

[11:00] quite a bit lower. >> Yeah.

[11:01] » What about for the other Do you want to take a look at that,

[11:04] » please? >> For the other um

[11:08] » aspects of the fees. >> Yeah.

[11:10] » Yeah. Very similar. >> Crew.

[11:12] » Cruiser. >> Yeah. I'm seeing somewhere between $10

[11:15] and $20 an hour for the cruisers with the other agencies.

[11:26] Is the admin fee correct or >> um which

[11:30] » I mean I think >> Yep.

[11:33] » I think we're at we're at 25 but I think you're

[11:37] Is it because it's a different u I think the current admin position is higher

[11:42] than that. >> Yeah, that's just the fees that the town

[11:45] pays is get gets paid for and part of the detail structure. So we're not

[11:49] paying the admin that we're getting that money in. Okay.

[11:52] » Right. >> Is is that when it comes back into the

[11:54] town? >> I think it's like an overhead.

[11:56] » Yeah. Cover that. >> So that would cover

[11:59] accounting and >> it covers Yeah. the retire somebody's

[12:04] got to answer the phone, make the schedule, reach out to things just

[12:09] estimate overhead. Oh [clears throat]

[12:13] yeah.

[12:20] » And then so parts

[12:25] everything you see in that detailed building construction is what's coming

[12:28] in to the agency for in the town.

[12:34] So this this billing

[12:40] will it be how does this work? You'll contact say Eversource. They're probably

[12:45] one of the most common. >> Yeah. Aspen, Eversource, power

[12:48] companies. Yeah. >> So do you contact them, they contact

[12:52] you? >> No, they typically reach out to us. So

[12:54] they reach out to us and they'll say, "Hey, like today they were working uh in

[12:58] town >> and they said, "Hey, we're going to have

[13:00] a project on Turnpike Road at 572. uh we're going to be in the road uh

[13:05] requesting a police detail. Um they're very good about it. They call all the

[13:09] time like when they're going to have road work. Um

[13:12] we'll say, "Okay, we'll we'll see if we can fill it." So we get that detailed

[13:17] request. We have a schedule. We call um officers and say, you know, try to fill

[13:22] that request. And if it's filled, we call every source back and say, "Yeah,

[13:26] we have found an officer to fill the detail. Um where would you like to

[13:30] meet?" And we get all that contact information and then the officer comes

[13:33] in, performs the private, you know, extra duty detail,

[13:38] completes the detail, comes back, my town, my police administrator then

[13:43] fills out the invoice and then mails it out or emails it to the company

[13:47] depending on their preference. They get the bill for the invoice. They send back

[13:52] a check. We take the check, the invoice and then give it to the Treasury

[13:56] Department here at the police department. I mean at the top office. So

[14:00] we track the details coming you know that we perform and then the payments

[14:04] coming in.

[14:12] » So has there ever been a time

[14:17] when we've used

[14:21] section 8 penalty? >> Not yet. Nope.

[14:28] But it is there as a deterrence, right? That if they were to

[14:34] not follow the town or the lens, kind of like riding bicycles in the memorial

[14:39] park, there should be some type of fine structure for that.

[14:55] Has there ever been like a dispute between

[14:59] like hours work. Do they like sign the ticket or just

[15:03] » No, not that I'm aware of. No. Yeah. A lot of times like Eversource or

[15:08] » Aspen it's it's on and off when they actually have a slip, right?

[15:14] » They'll have a slip that we sign off that goes back to their corporation and

[15:17] vice versa. We have a detail slip that they fill out. It's our detail

[15:21] application. Okay. >> And we track the hours there and then we

[15:24] submit the bill. So we >> haven't had disputes.

[15:28] » Uh we have, you know, cases where, you know, we've had to like nag them like,

[15:32] "Hey, you're falling behind in your payments, you know, beyond the

[15:35] » the um request for payment in the detail ordinance." And that's where, you know,

[15:40] our town keeps saying that police administrator um you know, makes phone

[15:44] calls just like anybody else trying to collect money and and I say, "Hey,

[15:47] you're 30 days late or 60 days or um >> but currently to date for 2026, we're

[15:53] 100% up to date on what's been built and um

[15:57] That's where we're at

[16:01] » other than like the detail over the weekend and today, you know, those those

[16:05] bills will go out this week. >> Yeah.

[16:09] » So, is there ever a time that a a resident might want to consider

[16:15] » a detail? >> Yeah.

[16:17] » Yeah. We we get um the biggest ones we get for residents are one has been

[16:23] served the domestic violence order of protection and they can't be at the

[16:26] residence legally without a police officer presence and they want to move

[16:31] out. So they'll call and say, "Hey, I need a civil standby. I want to get my

[16:35] property at the house." And our normal course of action says, "We can give you

[16:39] 10 or 15 minutes free. We'll come and stand by for 10 or 15 minutes. If we get

[16:43] called away within that 10 or 15 minutes, we're going to ask you to

[16:46] leave. you got to leave immediately. And then they're like, well, I need to move.

[16:49] They're like, well, how long do you need? I need 4 hours. And they say,

[16:51] well, you can get a police detail. So, I'm not going to pay, you know, you

[16:54] can't give an officer dedicated four hours to be there. So, that's rare, but

[16:58] that's probably the most common that we get for a citizen. Uh, sometimes like

[17:04] Old Homestead Farm will have an event that they'll call us for um police

[17:09] detail, graduation, graduation ceremonies, weddings if they feel it's

[17:13] necessary. Um, I think they're growing up there. I'm not entirely sure, but

[17:18] those are some examples. >> Yeah.

[17:23] » Any comments? >> No.

[17:37] » Well, the rates aren't that much different from what they were back in

[17:41] 2023.

[17:49] The admin fee went down for holidays.

[17:56] » Yeah, correct. Was that just done in the same manner of average

[18:03] or >> it was a little bit to do with the

[18:05] average and was also trying not to have a a major increase between the 142 and

[18:11] the 149 and still cover the admin fees. >> Um,

[18:17] so that was my thought process behind that.

[18:27] You have any thoughts on it, Jack? >> No, I think it's pretty standard. Um,

[18:32] you know, the idea is there's no reason to put this on the back of the

[18:36] taxpayers. So, you're trying to price it generously enough so that you know

[18:40] you're covering your costs. I mean, you know, the cruisers running out there for

[18:44] hours and hours and hours on hills. You know, they're 70 or 80,000 bucks.

[18:48] So, you know, it's not it's not inexpensive and it does take a lot of

[18:52] time, but it's built into the system and they don't have to come here. They're

[18:56] working and they could go to any community police detail. You know,

[19:00] sometimes they'll I'm sure the chief reaches out to other towns, but if they

[19:04] can't get the coverage, they'll come over. You see it all the time. So,

[19:07] » and you know, if they don't want to use a police detail, they can use a flagger.

[19:11] They make that choice. >> Yeah.

[19:13] » Yeah. And we work with them. There's a lot of details we can't film, plain and

[19:17] simple, right? And we don't stop them for it. We say just make sure you have

[19:20] the road covered with certified flaggers and do your job, right? And that's

[19:24] something we're very fair with. I mean, ever so

[19:27] » is in town today and tomorrow. We don't have anybody for them. Aspen right now

[19:32] has five trucks a day in town for the last three months. Most of those we

[19:36] don't we can't fill that request. But the details ordinance allows them allows

[19:41] us to say, "Hey, at least ask us." So we know one we know where you are and two

[19:45] if we can put a police detail there we will and if we can't please use flaggers

[19:48] do your business right we don't we're not in the business of stopping people

[19:52] from stop from doing their business we're just saying you know when you use

[19:56] us this is the fees you know um and uh works out well so I said [clears throat]

[20:03] one's been in town for months and I think they're going to be here for a few

[20:06] more months >> and the police like to know because not

[20:09] everybody's always nice when there's vehicles in the road and there's delays

[20:13] So >> if there's an incident,

[20:15] » then at least they know what the deal is.

[20:17] » Yeah. >> And it's nice to know where they are.

[20:19] Like daily right now, I get emails are scheduled from ask of the roads they're

[20:24] going to be on. >> So if somebody calls and says, "Hey,

[20:27] there's construction and it's not properly flagged or posted, you know,

[20:32] like, oh yeah, I saw out there or asks out there. I know who's out there." Then

[20:35] they can go take a ride out there and take a look and see what's going on. And

[20:39] sometimes we'll roll up and say, "Yeah, there is absolutely nobody flagging it."

[20:42] It's a onelane road and it's you know not in the best position for visibility

[20:46] for approaching traffic or pedestrians and you know the the other part some

[20:51] people say why details and you know the other part is you know the police

[20:55] department patrols these streets every single day we respond to all the

[20:58] accidents we respond to all the emergencies we assist disabled motorists

[21:02] we assist the stranded motors motorists in distress why shouldn't we be out

[21:07] there another cop on the road is a good thing right and U

[21:12] we are responsible for a lot of that as a police department. So

[21:23] » can I ask a question about this? >> Absolutely.

[21:26] » Um so for the record, one of my brothers is a former Rochester officer. So I'm

[21:32] very >> New Hampshire.

[21:32] » Yes. >> I'm very pro police. I wish we had a 247

[21:37] funded force, but my only concern concern from a finance standpoint. I

[21:42] understand that these companies regardless of the rates, you know, pay

[21:45] for you, your officers to do that during that time, but I have concerns about

[21:50] then that taking away coverage or then driving overtime if something else

[21:54] happens during that given week. So then we end up we end up paying more as a

[22:00] town because we're covering the shift or things like that.

[22:04] » So that's this doesn't >> Yeah, it's extra duty. So, it's beyond

[22:08] their scheduled 40 hours. So, >> no, no, I understand. But if something

[22:12] happens and you already got a guy on detail, you got to call somebody in.

[22:16] Now, they're on overtime, right? Because somebody else was or Unless you break

[22:20] the detail. And >> yeah, I I mean, if I have to call

[22:24] somebody in, I'm sure it's going to be overtime anyway for any reason. Um,

[22:29] and we've had guys break away from details because we'll have a critical

[22:31] incident in town and like I the personnel and they'll clear or they'll

[22:35] make contact with the company and say, "Hey, I can't do traffic. Can you get

[22:38] somebody here or shut down? I got to leave right now." Right? Well, you know,

[22:42] it happens. And as a chief, I'm like, it's nice to know that extra officer's

[22:46] in town. Even though he's on an extra duty, hey, when I really need someone,

[22:50] they can come, right? You know, and that's that is another I guess a benefit

[22:56] to it. I guess is a benefit. Um, that happens once in a while. Probably of all

[23:01] the details we do annually, two or three times a year, well, some guy will come

[23:05] off a paid detail to come over and assist us in a what we call a hot call

[23:09] or an emergency. So, that's nice, too.

[23:15] » So, hopefully we can straighten out straighten out the revolving fund and

[23:18] how that's all getting paid too because that's still a mess.

[23:22] » So, what was your other >> That was that was my major concern about

[23:26] pulling >> losing our resources,

[23:29] » right? Because we have limited resources, right? And we're not able to

[23:33] staff 24/7. So that that was my major concern,

[23:38] » right? And but it is a latent concern because you can always have a special

[23:41] event even without a detail and have to call somebody and it's the same minimum

[23:45] over time >> connection or whatever. But I get it.

[23:48] No, it's not it's not not a bad point. >> I just don't see I mean how many times

[23:55] would that happen. >> It doesn't not my exper

[24:02] » detrimental to the >> Yeah.

[24:05] » Yeah. It it it doesn't really happen. >> Yeah.

[24:11] » My my officers know like if there's an overtime shift versus a detail shift,

[24:15] they would never take the detail. I wouldn't give it to them, right? Like

[24:18] this is I need you here for for overtime to cover a shift, but you that's not

[24:23] going to happen. And you have a budget to run by, you

[24:28] know. >> Y

[24:30] to make sure.

[24:38] » Well, first of all, Jack, if it possible to get copies of whatever was presented

[24:42] tonight,

[24:47] we can take this right here. >> I don't want to take something that

[24:51] belongs. No, that's a that's a >> This is an extra.

[24:55] » Is there >> It's not in red. There's a little more

[24:58] italics or >> section 6.0 is what we have.

[25:05] » Well, it's offered to you. >> Is there anything else?

[25:08] » Is there any kind of legal RSAs or anything like that that

[25:13] justifies these rates for billing rates?

[25:20] » Not that I know. one. >> Oh, yeah.

[25:23] » You actually It's actually in your uh >> and not the rates, the actual use of the

[25:28] » Yeah, it was 1059. So, I think we're talking to all of us.

[25:32] You didn't specifically ask anybody. So, I was just responding. It's just normal

[25:35] course, I think.

[25:41] » Here's a copy of your talking about it and the reference

[25:47] material that's brought in there. What you're what he references is two

[25:52] things. One is the guidelines for state of New Hampshire Department of

[25:56] Transportation >> DOT. Yeah.

[25:59] » And the second one is RSA 105 9

[26:06] wherever it is. I have a copy if you need it. But if you read this, first of

[26:11] all, this isn't standalone. There's actually

[26:17] here you go. This is the policy letter that goes with this.

[26:23] And it says right in there that we the state strongly recommends the use of

[26:29] flagman and rarely recommend uniform police officers. That's throughout this

[26:34] entire book. The if I meant I don't mean it. I left

[26:42] my copy back for sure.

[26:46] On the last page of this thing that's listed in your ordinance, the very last

[26:51] thing lists where you should char find out the

[26:55] billing rates. It says section 618. >> Mhm.

[27:00] » Of here's a Department of Transportation guidelines and it sites. Here's a copy

[27:06] for you. >> Yeah.

[27:08] » And here is section 618. At the very bottom it says rates of

[27:15] payment.

[27:18] Now the rates of payment according to the state of New Hampshire

[27:24] is the cost of a the salary cost of your officer plus 5% for overhead which means

[27:32] it shouldn't be $90 an hour. If Davey for example pulls a detail it

[27:39] should be 3180 an hour. plus 5% for overhead.

[27:45] That's what the state of New Hampshire puts in the guidelines that's cited in

[27:50] your

[28:01] » So there is a a documented rate that we should be charging.

[28:07] [clears throat] >> Well, it's recommendation. It's

[28:08] recommendation. It's not recommendation.

[28:11] » It's not our policy even department of transportation guidelines

[28:17] on how much you charge basis of payment and

[28:24] that's what's cited in your ordinance.

[28:28] So we're not really following that. >> Yeah. In here section 3.0 procedure

[28:33] chief may reference the New Hampshire DOT flag uniform officer work zone

[28:37] guidelines and say I shall it says I may and that's that's a a guideline that we

[28:43] look at to use flaggers and to set up work zones safely um and so that's there

[28:50] as a reference >> then the question would become what

[28:56] we're leaving the authority to run a detail at all

[29:00] » uh 1059 If you read 1059,

[29:09] » 1059 says any person desiring to conduct a public

[29:15] dance, circus, or carnival. That's what it applies to. I don't know

[29:21] that a road detail has either a public dance, circus, or carnival.

[29:26] » I can read the rest of it. I believe it talks about lane blockage and other

[29:30] things like that in the RCA. Section section two goes on to say the

[29:35] chief of police shall have a authority to assign police details to any public

[29:40] meetings or functions which he determines

[29:43] may potentially involve traffic related problems lead to a public disturbance or

[29:49] public nuisance or endanger public health safety or welfare.

[29:55] » That's where the road work would probably come in.

[29:57] » Sure. Listen, every agency in New Hampshire does it this way.

[30:02] » Yeah. >> Market driven.

[30:04] » So what you quoted was section one and then there's there's actually a section

[30:09] two. >> I understand. But section two can also

[30:13] to the first part which is this is the areas that you are interested.

[30:18] Now, when we say things like Eversource and so on and so forth, those are state

[30:23] contracts, not town contracts that are governed by

[30:27] the Department of Transportation's guideline, which I just gave to Select

[30:33] Summer, and they lay out [clears throat] who

[30:37] should be pulling the detail, and they flat out oppose

[30:42] uniform police officers except in specific places in the state. For

[30:47] example, route 101 between ports or whatever if

[31:08] the policy actually says if you miss some if you read on the

[31:13] policy letter about halfway down it says polic policy and the state says flaggers

[31:19] will be a primary source of providing dynamic temporary traffic control work

[31:24] areas. >> So is that the case in switch?

[31:28] » Uh I'm not sure what was the question. >> No, our flagger is generally the

[31:34] » I would say especially speaking of this year we're not filling the vast majority

[31:39] of the detail requests. >> That's right.

[31:41] » That's there's probably five or six detailed requests of the day right now.

[31:44] We're lucky to fill one and we don't stop them from working. We like I said

[31:48] before, if they can do work with a flagger, we let them do that. We don't

[31:53] say like for instance, Donna Wrench's policy says if you don't have a police

[31:57] detail, you don't you don't get in the road. We don't do that. My job is to say

[32:02] if we can provide one, we will. If we can't use flaggers and move on, right?

[32:06] Do your job.

[32:08] This is the same thing you already have. I highlighted

[32:13] that line. You can have that more. And if you look

[32:18] through this, this is the guidelines. And you can read everywhere. It says

[32:23] uniform officers will be used in specific areas

[32:28] and preferred not at all.

[32:39] And then we have a training requirement. And then of course we go back to how

[32:45] much they should be paid. If we're going to use that as a

[32:52] site for the appendix B, then we should follow it.

[32:57] » It's a reference. >> That's all it is.

[32:59] » You referenced it. >> I didn't. It says a maybe reference.

[33:03] police made reference >> if we're going to put it

[33:06] » at the end of the day. Every police agency, every community does it the way

[33:10] you described. >> You can see that in the statistics. So,

[33:14] I understand your point on this one. I think you're wrong and I think every

[33:18] community in the state would agree. >> I understand you do it no matter what.

[33:24] » But the policy that he references >> says that we should be paying the guys

[33:29] their salary plus 5% for overhead. not $200 or 100 whatever it comes to.

[33:36] » Okay. >> The other thing is you read the actual

[33:41] policy >> pretty much nobody that it applies to

[33:46] because all the road most of the road work is done by state contract which

[33:51] they follow that regulation. And then the exceptions that we have,

[33:58] we've accept exempted everybody in town.

[34:05] All nonprofits or civic groups are deemed necessary to enhance the

[34:11] sense of community in town. I can't think of a nonprofit or civic group

[34:15] [clears throat] that would not fall into that category.

[34:34] I would suggest that you think about resending the ordinance completely and

[34:40] suspending detail activity until you come up with a better, more precise

[34:45] ordinance instead of I want to get paid hundreds of dollars

[34:49] an hour. I disagree. I think this ordinance is uh fine the way it is and

[34:53] it's sustainable and we've been operating this without any complaints

[34:57] from businesses or other people in town other than Mr. Doyle and uh it seems to

[35:02] work. It keeps our community safe. He has another officer out on the road

[35:07] directing traffic. Um and again the appendix to N DOT flag is a uniform is a

[35:14] reference so we can reference material if we need to. Uh it's not a it's not

[35:18] the new switch police department's policy by any stretch.

[35:34] » I'm trying to find where you said everybody is exempt.

[35:41] » Well, it's a matter >> in our policy in the

[35:45] » polic. I don't see where everybody is exempt.

[35:48] » Exemptions is section 50 >> and 51 says nonprofit and civic groups

[35:57] that are deemed to enhance the sound sense of uh the town's [snorts]

[36:01] sense of community >> as defined by the board of select. Well,

[36:07] » if traffic control is deemed necessary by the police chief, these groups shall

[36:11] pay the wages and associated benefits of full-time officers at the overtime rate

[36:16] rather than the detail rate or part-time officers at the overtime rate if no

[36:21] full-time officers are available. So, I don't see I don't understand why you

[36:27] said everybody's exempt. I'm saying very few people would apply

[36:31] » and that may be true as when I asked the chief that he did say very few

[36:36] » would be exempt >> very few residents

[36:41] um end up using this >> they would be exempt

[36:44] » well against the community sense of community and you support the children's

[36:50] fair so

[36:54] difficult to find a community event that does not enhance the community. If it

[37:01] doesn't enhance the community, you wouldn't bother calling it a community

[37:05] event. >> Yeah. I I'm just not following your

[37:08] train about it that everybody's exempt. >> Chief, did you have something?

[37:12] » Yeah, I was [clears throat] just going to say an example would be we do uh

[37:15] sports games at the high school. If there's a lot of crowds, large crowds,

[37:20] [clears throat] we go, they pay the detail or the overtime, you know, so

[37:24] they possibly could be exempt, but they asked us to be there, right? Because

[37:29] there could be problems. We had an assault happen two years ago in the

[37:32] soccer field. Um, you know, there was no police there and that's when I realized

[37:37] we probably should have police, you know, so those we we do basketball

[37:41] games, could do soccer games. Um, so the that those are that would be an example

[37:50] » where you know a town civic group or organization such as the scenic school

[37:55] district request our presence for detail.

[38:00] » Mr. And historically the same school district and other sporting events get

[38:05] charged significantly less than what is outlined in this which

[38:11] is a lot closer to the officer's actual salary plus 5%.

[38:17] But isn't wouldn't that be in compliance with this?

[38:22] Because it says that the chief may um wouldn't be at detail rates if it's

[38:31] something that we're discussing. So I would think that would be complying with

[38:37] the ordinance because it's a school event.

[38:43] Have you seen anything in there that would change your thoughts on this?

[38:47] » I haven't. Not yet. I haven't fully read everything, but

[38:52] » there's a few. >> I'm I'm just wondering like what is the

[38:56] other than the guidelines that you present here? What is the

[39:03] what is the negative to having a police detail?

[39:07] » To having a police detail. >> Yeah. the cost to the taxpayers.

[39:12] » How he's billing for it though. >> Well, he's billing them, but the

[39:16] taxpayers are paying the officers and we don't necessarily

[39:20] have that money transferred over to the town, which is why we have an accounting

[39:24] problem with some of that. That's one thing. Eversource is going to relay that

[39:28] cost to you and me, whether it's directly out of tax or our increased

[39:33] billing. It costs them more. The one of the invoices I p two officers

[39:40] were out there for a total of 12 hours. It was like a $2,500 bill or some

[39:46] ridiculous amount to Eversource or one of the companies like that. And they

[39:51] don't absorb that. They're going to pass that on to the customers, you and me and

[39:55] the rest of the Eversource customers, whether it's electric or cable or

[40:00] whoever that's going to be passed on. And those contracts, by the way, are run

[40:04] by the state >> and should be following the guidelines.

[40:08] » The state, if you ever look at some of these, they all have the state

[40:12] requirements. You have >> they have an officer, a flag on each

[40:16] side with the thing, dress in yellow, regardless how hot it is.

[40:21] » They've met the state requirements. >> We're simply imposing an additional

[40:25] requirement and an additional cost on to them. And it's not like it's either we

[40:31] need it there because How many have you passed where there's no officer there?

[40:34] » But they're the ones initiating. I don't I don't think we're going to

[40:39] them saying, "Hey, we need a have a somebody out here, right?" Don't they

[40:44] come to the police and say, "Hey, we want somebody here or need somebody

[40:49] here or how does that work?" >> Yeah, I think the vast majority of them

[40:53] will call us and request. There are there has been instances where we'll see

[40:57] somebody out on the road that's not using a flagger and they're doing, you

[41:01] know, obstructing traffic. >> Um,

[41:04] yeah. And we'll solve we'll address it. We're like, "Hey, this isn't safe." And

[41:07] sometimes we receive complaints complaints from citizens and we don't

[41:10] even know they're there until somebody tells us because, you know, this is 32

[41:13] miles in town, square miles. We'll go out there and we'll explain to them

[41:16] that, you know, for safety reasons, you should have flaggers and properly mark

[41:20] the road at both ends that there's a construction zone ahead. flagger ahead,

[41:24] one lane road, whatever the sign package needs to be. Um, and you know, so so

[41:29] sometimes they don't do that, right? And that's, you know, an education part on

[41:33] our our part of the PD when we go up to these uh people that are doing that. And

[41:37] then, you know, we also give them the town ordinance so they understand what's

[41:41] uh the ordinance of the towns and what's expected.

[41:46] » And just for balance, this is [clears throat]

[41:49] obviously the state of New Hampshire, they have their own things when they're

[41:52] building roads and bridges. So, they're trying to

[41:55] control their costs. They'd rather have a flyer than a car because they spend

[41:58] tens of millions of dollars on bridges and roads. They want to control their

[42:02] costs. A splint is a private company. They get hired by a by these utilities.

[42:08] And I don't I would disagree with oil that these are state contracts. It's a

[42:13] utility contract with a private company. And the fact is again every single

[42:19] community

[42:22] charges these rights for these just the way it is. Every community that I've

[42:27] ever worked in love with the air and I called New Hampshire State Police

[42:32] and I don't quote me on this but I think was the troopers are getting $72 an hour

[42:37] and that's what the state so if you reference this their own people aren't

[42:40] even doing it you know if that if that's what we're looking at. Um, plus their

[42:44] fees are a lot higher than ours. They have uniform fees and you know other

[42:48] things. But anyway, that's

[42:54] » all right. Any other discussion on the proposed changes?

[43:00] » I would like to see some of the surrounding police departments and you

[43:05] know what would be comparative

[43:09] um to the what they what they charge and how they do it compared to what we're

[43:16] doing.

[43:21] [clears throat] >> Those are current rates.

[43:25] » Okay.

[43:28] » And those listed there, Mr. Alvarez, are the officers pay rate, not all the fees

[43:33] combined. >> Okay.

[43:38] Any

[43:44] other discussion?

[43:48] » Does that satisfy what you were? >> Oh, I'm just looking at it right now.

[43:53] So, go ahead and and and

[43:59] speak to it.

[44:05] » Well, I was going to uh it up. We there >> that's your prerogative.

[44:18] » I suppose it is chairman. >> It is my prerogative.

[44:21] » Make a motion to >> Yeah, this is what But I wanted to know.

[44:25] » Oh, yeah. I'm just Yeah, I'm just looking at the at the details here.

[44:28] » Yeah. >> And we can go ahead and Yeah, you could

[44:32] wrap it up if you'd like and then um that'll give me the next until the next

[44:38] week or so to uh to review this. That's all.

[44:44] Unless you don't want me to take this with me.

[44:47] » Oh,

[44:53] so you don't feel comfortable voting on a motion at this time?

[44:56] » I didn't accept this. >> Oh, okay. Can I have a motion?

[45:02] » I I'll make motion to accept new policy

[45:07] changes for police department for 2026

[45:13] outlined in the paper that we got here.

[45:21] Second it. All in favor?

[45:27] » I tap. >> All right, the motion carries.

[45:36] That's yours.

[45:50] » Okay. How is the uh new trainee coming along?

[45:53] » Good. >> Good.

[45:54] » Yeah. Okay. A little over a week out of the academy, so it's going pretty good.

[46:00] lots to learn and you know it's a probably a four or five year journey

[46:04] before they really get comfortable. But it's a it does get us to fully staffed

[46:09] as far as you know the numbers are six full-time officers and uh

[46:16] um you know he's still quite a burden to us versus useful because we got to train

[46:20] him and he's going to be with an officer all the time. But we're hoping in a

[46:22] couple months that he'll be a solo officer and patrolling on his own and uh

[46:27] » Jeez, just a couple of months. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, we we got a chance to

[46:31] train him a little bit before he left the academy while he was pending the the

[46:35] start of the police academy. They finished up his 16 weeks there and

[46:39] everything went well. >> Excellent.

[46:41] » We're in a good spot. Um Jackie Bouedi is uh the police administrator. Today

[46:47] was her last day, so I'm actively filling trying to fill that position.

[46:50] » Today was her last day. >> She's going to work a couple part-time

[46:54] hours Wednesday and Thursday. So, we uh we threw a little party today. We had a

[46:59] little bit of pizza and some cake and um prosecution group stopped in to say

[47:03] thank you because she works closely with them. U all the st a lot of the staff

[47:07] returned even on their day off today to come and attend and say thank you.

[47:12] » We do as well >> the board offers.

[47:15] » Thanks for having Yeah. So it was sad to see her go but she's going to move on to

[47:20] the next chapter in her life and we got to go start to do some adventuring. So,

[47:26] uh, >> there wasn't enough adventures at the

[47:28] PD. >> They got a fifth wheel trailer and, uh,

[47:32] they're going to just kind of poke around and have some fun and see where

[47:35] they land and and life's going to throw them some adventure, you know.

[47:39] » So, we're pretty happy for us to see her go. She was an amazing employee and

[47:43] dedicated to us. Uh, real crucial to our our success at the police department.

[47:48] Um, awesome performing employee, you know.

[47:53] So, we'll we're working on it. Phil, >> Chief, can I ask you a question? I

[47:57] noticed that instead of a an hourly rate range, you just listed, I think the rate

[48:03] that Jackie is currently at, like the 26, 10 or whatever it is. I'm just

[48:08] wondering if it would be more appropriate to have listed a range

[48:10] because I mean to me that kind of rate somebody that's got at least 5, seven,

[48:15] 10 years experience. Yeah, I I I posted it for what the

[48:20] position is budgeted for and I I honestly think that it's low, right? So,

[48:24] I might as well pay somebody what I have in the budget and try to attract a

[48:28] quality candidate. And to be frank, one of the persons that applied has five

[48:32] years and works for another agency and she applied to the job. Had it been

[48:36] less, I don't think she's done, right? So, I think it worked and I'm pretty

[48:40] happy and I stand behind my decision to post it that way. Um, I'm trying to draw

[48:45] talent and I'm trying to get people in the role to support our agency and

[48:48] complete our mission. Um, and I want the best I can get.

[48:52] » Are you going to have that person clean the office as well?

[48:55] » Uh, I'm going to offer to if she feels like this person feels like they want

[48:59] that task. If they don't, then I'll have to well, they're going to come up with a

[49:03] plan, right, to get it close. Um, but, uh, you know, that's where we're at. and

[49:09] we used uh you know we we were able to advertise and we actually got I think

[49:14] right now I have really three real solid candidates for the position and uh very

[49:18] fortunate right so um yeah we're moving forward been very successful u we've

[49:26] been interviewing for two or three weeks yeah

[49:28] » thank you good >> and if if I can speak to one other

[49:33] matter if this one's closed I give you I just want to give a heads up it's

[49:36] nothing that I would need to be here Um, I did apply for a grant u from the

[49:42] department of safety um to help us get new computers for the cruisers and

[49:48] hardware and try to get on what we call the J1 program where we can start

[49:51] submitting uh citations and complaints and crash

[49:56] reports electronically versus paper. Um,

[50:01] » this is something that's different than the um

[50:05] » software. Yes, the records management. >> Yeah, this is a state initiative to try

[50:10] to get more agencies to use their electronic transfer of data versus

[50:14] paper. Like right now, we print out every accident report and put it in the

[50:18] mail and send it to the state where we could be sending that electronically.

[50:22] Uh but anyway, I just want you I did apply for that grant. We are are going

[50:26] to be awarded the grant. Um, I have to go through and wait for one more piece

[50:31] of paper, but I just want you to know that's coming that there'll be a

[50:34] certificate of authority. I'll have to touch base with Jack on the certificate

[50:38] of authority saying that we can accept the grant. I'll give you guys the terms

[50:41] of the grant. Uh, this grant is um for $37,750

[50:47] for all new computer equipment. It's 100% grant. Um, we do have to buy

[50:54] and submit a reimbursement request for that uh equipment, but it's 100%. It's

[50:58] not a match. So, I thought that's pretty exciting news. Um, good good stuff. So,

[51:04] in the future, probably next week, I might submit it for review and then

[51:07] maybe get back on the agenda in a week or two and see if we can have a

[51:12] conversation about >> Do they have Do you have the terms or

[51:15] [clears throat] the the fine print? >> Yes, sir. It's all right here.

[51:20] » Okay. You can Absolutely. That's what I mean by next week I maybe I'll submit

[51:24] all the paperwork to you for review >> and then you know if you don't take the

[51:28] grant then you know that is what it is but uh you know it's it's a way to help

[51:32] offset some of our future costs and um you know it's out there being offered by

[51:38] the by the state to try to promote agencies that are small like us to start

[51:42] using the the the technology. >> I assume it'll save your staff hours too

[51:47] and the officers hours. >> Yeah. between the new record management

[51:50] system and being able to do like this kind of using this kind of equipment.

[51:55] It's it's very much more efficient. You know, now we'll be able to take a

[51:58] license in the cruiser and scan it once we in that position. There's a barcode

[52:04] scanner on there, puts that person's information into the call, you know,

[52:08] stuff like that. um that you'll be able to print the citation out right in the

[52:13] cruiser versus handwriting one out >> which takes all that time and then when

[52:18] we're done that that summons or ticket is transferred electronically through

[52:23] the web back out to the state. Um, those are all steps that take manpower. And

[52:29] anyway, I don't want to get on a tangent, take up a bunch of your time,

[52:31] but you I'm going to send you some of that.

[52:34] » Be between that and the update on the um reporting software.

[52:39] » There could be there could be a lot of >> the workload of these of your officers.

[52:45] » Yeah. >> Could be relieved and they can be

[52:47] spending more. >> Yes, sir. Yeah. it when we finally get

[52:50] this all up and running by go live date of May next year. I mean, it's going to

[52:54] make a big impact on our our efficiency for sure.

[52:59] » And then that in turn improves morale >> does

[53:03] » because nobody >> and we're going to get up to modern

[53:05] technology where a lot of agencies are already doing this. We we're not we're

[53:08] way behind the curve. >> Yeah. But I bet we're ahead of some

[53:12] » some. Yes, we are. We are definitely ahead of some. We are not we are not

[53:16] behind everybody. Some some police departments still don't have computers

[53:20] in their cruisers, >> which

[53:23] » is really really old school, right? Like I started 20 something years ago.

[53:29] We had computers in the cars, >> right? Some agencies don't have anyway.

[53:34] Uh exciting news for you know that that grant was a a bit of work. I got the the

[53:39] letter from the state last week saying that it's going to go through and uh

[53:43] that this got signed off by the governor's council. etc. So,

[53:47] » so we'll be a Did you say you'll be able to email the three of us to so we can

[53:53] » Yep. I'll get everything compiled and say here this is what the agreement is,

[53:57] scope of work, and the um certificate of authority.

[54:01] » Yeah. If you could send it earlier than like just at a meeting where [cough]

[54:05] » Yeah. >> If I get it to you next week, I probably

[54:07] won't be asked to get on the agenda for a week or two after. Perfect. Right.

[54:11] » And that way we can cover if this questions Yeah.

[54:16] All right, I have one other question. Um, you see a lot on the news now of

[54:23] video surveillance, >> right? You I'm sure you've seen like

[54:27] cameras everywhere. >> Flock is the is the is the the name

[54:30] going around for sure. >> And I'm wondering that

[54:36] um gifted radar thing that we accepted. Yep.

[54:40] » Is that a part of that network? >> No, it is not. is not linked to like an

[54:44] automatic license plate here where it's running a license plate back to the DMV

[54:49] or anything like that. No, >> it's capturing speeds.

[54:53] » But then there was a there was a camera. >> Yeah, there's supposed to be an anti-

[54:57] theft camera there. So, if you somebody stole it that perhaps you could get a

[55:00] picture of somebody who stole the sign and vandalized it. I've never used it.

[55:04] I've never had to and I'm not even sure how to access that to be frank. Right.

[55:09] Um, so the police is not using it as a surveillance tool other than to monitor

[55:15] speed. >> And so you get a report.

[55:18] » I can print a report. Yep. So I I can log in and see the traffic patterns

[55:25] speed patterns. >> All right.

[55:30] » Very good. >> We we do have two we do have a camera at

[55:34] Hybridge and and not us, but there is a camera at Hybridge and 1241 123.

[55:39] » That's a DOT camera. >> That's a DOT camera. My understanding

[55:42] that's a live feed only. They don't record it. They just monitor the

[55:45] intersection. That's what I was told. I've never seen any footage from it or

[55:48] used it. >> And I've had people come into the office

[55:51] and be like, "You own that camera within the last couple months." Right.

[55:55] » Yeah. Because it's really >> They want to know if it's a FL camera

[55:57] basically. And I'll be like, "No, it's DOT. If you have questions, go see the

[56:01] DOT." I wonder if this board has any footing

[56:07] to ask the state why that's there and can it be removed.

[56:13] » Well, my understanding is they just monitor road conditions like in winter

[56:18] if there's a car off the road or snow accumulation or that sort of thing. But

[56:23] » I don't know that there's any other purpose. But

[56:26] » yeah, >> and I've been up to the control center

[56:28] up there and it's it's impressive. They have

[56:32] hundreds and hundreds of cameras around the state monitoring the interstates

[56:35] mostly the interstates and the troubled intersections off ramps on ramps um and

[56:40] that is useful tool to direct resources to accidents and hazardous conditions

[56:45] but I can't speak to surveillance and running plates and what they do but they

[56:49] do have a pretty comprehensive um camera surveillance sort of you know

[56:56] monitoring system at the department of transportation

[56:59] » I I remember when they put it up and I was told very similar.

[57:03] » Yeah. >> Whether they said it was to monitor the

[57:06] bridge. >> Yeah.

[57:08] » And I think one point we had a bus accident right at the intersection and I

[57:12] I think I called and was like, "Can I get the footage?" And they're like, "No,

[57:15] it's just monitored." Cuz I was like, I wanted to see if I had evidence of

[57:18] wrongdoing. >> Somebody rammed the bus coming out of

[57:22] the library or whatever the scenario. I can't quite read the scenario. This was

[57:25] six years ago, seven years ago. But, you know, I remember you, oh man, can I get

[57:29] footage from that camera [clears throat] to see what happened?

[57:32] » Yeah, but it's not available. >> I was told it was not available.

[57:42] » Well, thank you for coming in.

[57:46] » Thank you. >> Have a good night.

[57:51] » Thank you. >> Good job on that grant.

[57:53] » Thank you. >> We got to see the pine gray.

[57:58] It's It's promising. >> It sounds very promising and and a and a

[58:03] good resource for the department.

[58:08] » All right. I don't I don't actually have much to report since I've only been back

[58:13] five hours. But >> um but I do, you know, I do um kind of

[58:20] want to continue the conversation about the um the finance software module that

[58:26] we discussed a month or two or three ago.

[58:31] » I don't know if you want to talk about that at all.

[58:36] » Please. >> Yes.

[58:39] Yeah. So, um I can speak to that a little bit. Um,

[58:44] I we I went and attended a meeting this week with Mary and Pete and

[58:52] kind of went over the overall picture of what's happening within the finance

[58:59] departments and the accounting and the practices between

[59:03] uh finance and the treasurer.

[59:07] And most of the problems or a lot of problem that we have is pointing towards

[59:13] limited limited functions of our software.

[59:18] And there's I didn't dig into all the

[59:22] numbers and that per se, but I was just trying to figure out where the

[59:26] bottlenecks are within the town to have the proper channels for who's doing what

[59:32] and how it's supposed to be going on. Um,

[59:38] and so without the software, we're not allowed to

[59:43] set up, from what I understand, the accounts properly to post

[59:50] the treasures revenues and they need expense accounts to go along with them

[59:56] and it all filtered back towards two

[59:59] limitations that our software is not correct.

[1:00:03] So, um I think previous meetings we've had

[1:00:09] the discussion that the modules to get what we need was like around 15,000

[1:00:14] maybe a little over. >> Well, that came through an email.

[1:00:17] » Yeah. >> A few weeks back.

[1:00:20] So in my opinion from what I see versus trying to go back to like an Excel or

[1:00:27] switch the software midstream where we are, I I just think we will disrupt more

[1:00:36] than getting the proper software that we already own

[1:00:42] to abandon our whole old system or our system currently.

[1:00:46] » BSNA. >> Yeah. It just seems

[1:00:50] » that might >> they might be

[1:00:53] we've already came this far and implementing something else is going to

[1:00:58] cost way more than just getting the module.

[1:01:00] » And we actually priced out with another company. They actually declined and they

[1:01:06] said, "Listen, you have BSNA. If you had bought the modules that you should have

[1:01:10] bought, you wouldn't have this problem." And so

[1:01:15] they weren't actually interested in they kind of talked themselves out because

[1:01:20] you know the SNA will work for you but you have to get the other modules and

[1:01:25] you you bought part of the modules because you didn't think the other half

[1:01:29] of the equation was necessary for some reason or other.

[1:01:34] Yeah, >> that has been

[1:01:38] our throne in the side >> for a long time and

[1:01:43] I'm glad to see there's some direction going forward. It's not an

[1:01:48] ideal year to just be because we've already done this, you know, approved

[1:01:54] expenses like that weren't budgeted for.

[1:02:02] Part of the problem we have is this whole issue makes it difficult to make

[1:02:09] decisions like this on the fly because we don't have

[1:02:14] that complete picture of our revenue. which which

[1:02:19] » at least we're getting that we've identified where the problem area is.

[1:02:23] » Yeah. >> Okay.

[1:02:24] » And that's Pete and Mary and Jack have been working all summer on that trying

[1:02:30] to get to the bottom and >> and that's a start.

[1:02:33] » Yeah. So now at least we're at the base of trying to identify what we need to

[1:02:40] get, what modules to get to what you know I don't know enough about BSNA to

[1:02:48] uh to make any recommendations but >> but they they have recommended to us we

[1:02:53] know what modules are needed. >> Well they recommended to us for a lot of

[1:02:56] other things before >> and they didn't pan out.

[1:03:02] Well, I don't think that we have we have not changed the BSNA program since we

[1:03:08] purchased it. And so, this would be the first

[1:03:13] um advised change that we I think we should implement it. I don't know where

[1:03:20] the money I can't tell you. Hey, we're going to pull it out of I mean, if we

[1:03:24] all

[1:03:28] » surrendered our salary, that would give another what 800 bucks.

[1:03:33] » Yeah, it's almost an emergency. >> I think so. I think we're going to have

[1:03:37] to scrape this money up somewhere. >> That's how I feel. This has gone on so

[1:03:42] long. >> The longer it goes on, the worse it and

[1:03:45] that was something we discussed is like If we don't fix,

[1:03:52] it's not necessary like we just don't have the tools and if we don't fix and

[1:03:58] kind of like draw the line in the sand, say this is this is how we do this going

[1:04:03] forward. >> Yeah.

[1:04:04] » We are just going to be in the same >> thing in next year.

[1:04:10] » And as a new selectman, I I do I do want to get this

[1:04:16] » as an old selectman. I really want to be able to pass on

[1:04:22] readable finances so

[1:04:27] » many select men can actually look and say yes or no.

[1:04:32] » You have to wonder why it took so long to come to that conclusion.

[1:04:36] » Well, I don't think we're going to go there tonight. There is some

[1:04:40] » Yeah. >> Yeah. extenduating circumstances

[1:04:43] throughout the years, we'll say. >> But it's not just the two modules that

[1:04:48] you need for the accounts receivable cash receipts there. There was also some

[1:04:52] underlying account structure that needed to get fixed and accounts put in. So

[1:04:58] it's not that straightforward that we do this.

[1:05:01] » This isn't a magic button. There's also a lot of work

[1:05:05] » and that's what I was saying the software is that

[1:05:08] » but there's also >> possibility of bringing in or the extra

[1:05:15] time to set up the accounts correctly >> correct

[1:05:18] » just to get the the accounting going forward correct

[1:05:24] » then we still need to go back >> and I'm suggesting just

[1:05:30] » call bygones bygones and is get the audit

[1:05:34] » for 2025 >> good enough for the auditors

[1:05:40] » and obviously if there's question we have to go kind of what I call

[1:05:44] scavenging hunting for the numbers for them

[1:05:48] » because I don't see where we can >> got to get the road

[1:05:52] » spend so much time going reverse versus >> trying to move forward

[1:05:59] » the staff has put in a lot of effort on We understand that.

[1:06:04] » But you at some point you you have to just do the right thing.

[1:06:09] » Well, and this will just give you the proper tool, the right hammer for the

[1:06:14] job. >> Yes.

[1:06:15] » It won't do the job for you. You still have to do the job, but it's going to

[1:06:19] give you the right >> tools.

[1:06:21] » Yeah. >> And then it'll be a matter of a still a

[1:06:25] lot of coordination from what I understand.

[1:06:27] » A lot of coordination needed to get this Well, Mary and and

[1:06:34] Pete and others have spent a lot of time on on the phone and on Zoom with BSNA at

[1:06:39] the moment just getting familiar with the layout, the

[1:06:42] setup of the accounts, that sort of thing. What's missing, what

[1:06:45] » what the elements we have can do and what they can't do.

[1:06:49] » So, that's a lot of what we can't do. Yeah. And and

[1:06:52] they all say the same thing too, like don't co it because that's pretty much

[1:06:57] what we've been doing. There was there was a a a little glimmer of hope at one

[1:07:03] time that maybe we can make it work using not having the modules but that

[1:07:09] seems to have evaporated. >> Yeah, I think yeah I don't

[1:07:14] » it it would have been distorted. >> It would have been just a cop like

[1:07:18] » which would have had to been addressed at some point.

[1:07:20] » Correct. >> Yeah.

[1:07:22] » And if you don't then you're back to

[1:07:27] » you know

[1:07:32] So, is that a motion to approve the proposal that was submitted a couple

[1:07:36] weeks ago that you reviewed? >> Yeah. When was that came through the

[1:07:41] email?

[1:07:52] » There was no motion. >> I'm just asking.

[1:07:54] » Yeah.

[1:08:02] Has anyone called or followed up with them?

[1:08:08] » You got trained with them, >> right? But did they I know the last time

[1:08:14] that we went reviewed the potential cost,

[1:08:19] » how long it was good for. >> Yeah.

[1:08:24] No, but I can tomorrow. >> It's typically 60 days.

[1:08:29] » Yeah, >> it's past the quoted date, but I just

[1:08:33] want to make sure >> if they'll

[1:08:38] reach out to them tomorrow.

[1:08:48] So, >> so that is that quote was 15,000.

[1:08:59] » You can make a motion that it's up to say 17,000 or within 10% of the more

[1:09:04] than that we just come back. But at least if it's within the boundary, then

[1:09:09] we'll just get her down.

[1:09:17] And then we'll actually end up at some point saving on overtime to our finance

[1:09:23] » in about 6 months. >> In about 6 months.

[1:09:27] » Assuming there's cooperation.

[1:09:46] I'm looking back at my notes.

[1:10:04] She's going to go get that email if you have any.

[1:10:12] I'm wondering back in May we approved $3675

[1:10:18] » that was >> for consultation

[1:10:20] » that was for training and trying to help solve these

[1:10:23] » Yeah. Can we burn up all that money? >> Not yet. But I think I think this week

[1:10:28] may finish it off. >> Yeah.

[1:10:30] » Remember there's layers to this. First one was we

[1:10:34] » we took the BSNA platform half of it because

[1:10:38] that replicated the method that you were using here which wasn't working. But it

[1:10:45] also um we had to understand with some of

[1:10:49] that consultation and training what happened to the

[1:10:54] account set up to get to set the software up. There were

[1:11:00] errors and mistakes with that. And so we had to kind of figure out well how was

[1:11:05] this set up in the first place because some of the accounts didn't make sense.

[1:11:08] And then what can it do? And then what are we missing? What's taking the

[1:11:13] numbers?

[1:11:19] » Yeah, I was I was just asking that thinking some of that money

[1:11:26] unused money if there was any leftover it would go towards helping with this.

[1:11:31] But purchasing these modules does that you

[1:11:36] don't probably don't know if that comes with a certain amount of consultation.

[1:11:41] There is >> there's a project management.

[1:11:44] » It talks about >> fee in there covered.

[1:11:48] » I think it was like 40 of my memory. It's like 4200 [clears throat]

[1:11:53] » was in the 50. >> Okay, that was a good part of it.

[1:11:56] » They aren't just going to here download the software.

[1:11:59] » They have to set it up. They have to make sure the accounts line up what it's

[1:12:02] supposed to be. They have to train people to use it.

[1:12:05] » But I think if we have >> that's going to be the challenge

[1:12:08] » if we can get it and we have the

[1:12:13] some extra personnel or whatever in here to help

[1:12:18] implement it. I think it would be beneficial.

[1:12:24] » Is that even possible though? Can you can you put a whole team on it?

[1:12:30] Let's >> take the first step first.

[1:12:31] » Yeah. I mean, and um >> let's get it get it set up.

[1:12:36] » Yeah. get file with it moving forward and then I think we've already talked to

[1:12:42] Nancy for example she's got some familiarity I believe with

[1:12:48] so you may have some internal resources >> no that's not it

[1:12:54] » was that the quote Mary >> no this isn't that's

[1:12:58] » that's mine but Pete did the other one that was from a year before

[1:13:02] » a year before cuz I I see it in my notes back in May.

[1:13:07] » I think I recommend you do what Jack said, you know, to say up to 17,000%

[1:13:14] of the >> cost estimate and come back if you need

[1:13:18] to come back.

[1:13:25] » Give another 2,000 in there.

[1:13:30] » That's an up. So >> it'll be whatever.

[1:13:33] » Yeah. Everybody's aware >> you don't need to spend it. Don't spend

[1:13:37] it. >> I think everyone's aware of that.

[1:13:40] » If not, we can make a decree from the board of selectmen. You must be aware.

[1:13:48] » I'll make a motion. I'll make a motion to

[1:13:52] purchase the extra modules outlined in our proposal up to

[1:13:59] date. Let's call it 16,000

[1:14:04] and

[1:14:08] » 16,000. If it be over, it would have to come back to the board for view and

[1:14:13] approval.

[1:14:16] » A second. I'll second that. >> All in favor? I

[1:14:22] » you are authorized to move forward.

[1:14:26] » Thank you. I will call them in the morning and

[1:14:30] send an email. >> No,

[1:14:33] » thank you. >> You can help me just hang with the

[1:14:36] original price. >> Mhm.

[1:14:39] » Yeah, they have to >> cuz we're going to need the extra cost.

[1:14:44] » We never told them you were authorized. >> No,

[1:14:47] » they can watch. >> You know, the fee shouldn't have to

[1:14:51] change very much, right? >> It should have what it is.

[1:14:53] » It is what is what it is. >> Yes. Thank you.

[1:15:02] Well, that was good. >> Yeah,

[1:15:04] » good stuff. >> I really feel

[1:15:05] » it. Sounds like you guys had a productive meeting last week

[1:15:10] » and we'll continue to um meet um with I've asked the auditors to send somebody

[1:15:19] out next Thursday as well as to meet with Arlene and Mary and me and

[1:15:28] you guys if you're available. >> And I know that um

[1:15:36] the Jaffrey Town finance director has helped you out in the past and she's

[1:15:41] willing to come and help out again. So, we'll get we'll get a number of people

[1:15:46] focus in on it. >> Now, she's familiar. I forget her last

[1:15:51] name. Her name Fitzgerald. >> Alisa.

[1:15:55] » Alicia. Okay. >> It's Alisa.

[1:15:57] » Alisa, I think Es

[1:16:03] » Yeah, she has helped in the Yeah, I spoke to her today.

[1:16:06] » We've hired her before. >> So, she's

[1:16:12] advantage to using her is she's very familiar with the towns.

[1:16:17] » I think she helped you with your trial balance a couple few years ago.

[1:16:21] » Yeah.

[1:16:25] » Well, hopefully it works out.

[1:16:33] That was the big one. Any uh small round table discussion?

[1:16:41] » Thank you for coming. >> Good night.

[1:16:43] » Good night, Stephanie. >> Good night.

[1:16:48] » Hello. >> Nothing I can talk about.

[1:16:52] » No old business.

[1:16:58] All right.

[1:17:08] I can I can say that the hunt for a town administrator permanent position

[1:17:15] continues. >> It does.

[1:17:17] » It continues. And we thank everybody who has submitted applications.

[1:17:23] [snorts] [clears throat]

[1:17:24] The board is still deliberating. Does anybody come

[1:17:31] um in the top five?

[1:17:35] » We haven't. >> I think the short answer is probably no.

[1:17:40] » Okay. >> I did forward another one on to you um a

[1:17:44] couple hours ago. >> I'm sorry. What was that?

[1:17:46] » I forwarded another resume on to you a couple hours ago.

[1:17:49] » Oh, did you? Okay.

[1:17:53] » Sorry. I just came down from >> Yeah. No, sorry. No problem. No rush.

[1:17:57] » Another job. Yeah, >> it's all good.

[1:18:04] » All right, we do have uh primary elections coming up September 8th. Polls

[1:18:10] will be open 7 to 7 at the scenic Auditorium.

[1:18:17] » Do you think uh is it beneficial to keep the polls open

[1:18:23] a little later or is seven like good? >> That's been a torical. I don't think you

[1:18:28] want to go too much later on primaries. It probably in my this is all my

[1:18:31] opinion. >> Yeah.

[1:18:32] » Um primaries won't be an issue. Uh townbo vote and presidential,

[1:18:41] you know, the big the fouryear >> Mhm.

[1:18:46] » Yeah. The pole workers end up staying [clears throat]

[1:18:51] » probably at least four hours after the poll.

[1:18:55] » It's a long day. >> It's a long

[1:18:57] Yeah, they're there. >> So that to leave it open even longer

[1:19:01] than that. >> I was just wondering if it's 7:00

[1:19:07] in the morning. Is it better to open it a little later and keep

[1:19:12] » Well, is that what you were go You were on the front end of it.

[1:19:14] » Yeah. >> Ah,

[1:19:17] » I just don't know. I haven't been here to see the history.

[1:19:19] » Yeah, I think there is. You generally get a morning rush of of people.

[1:19:23] » You get a morning rush here. people on their way to work,

[1:19:27] » they'll stop and vote. >> There'll be a huge when people are uh

[1:19:32] coming out of work. >> Yeah.

[1:19:34] » Um >> and then it's all afterwards, it's

[1:19:38] counting the votes and and sorting them out and doing the other and that's the

[1:19:43] part that goes in from about >> 7:00 until 1 or 2 o'clock in the

[1:19:48] morning. >> So, it's a long day. So, I wouldn't want

[1:19:51] to keep the full me personally as a town moderator. Yeah,

[1:19:55] » I know those hours and you know after you've worked 12 hours and then you

[1:19:58] actually have to do the real work making sure you're counting all the balls and

[1:20:02] all the numbers line up and all the forms filled out.

[1:20:04] » Yeah, >> that's

[1:20:05] » I highly recommend that you take a lunch

[1:20:10] hour or go take a nap. [laughter] >> I haven't done that yet. I do take a

[1:20:15] little bit of a lunch break. We are required by law to be there as

[1:20:22] » the moderator's faithful servants.

[1:20:27] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[1:20:29] » So that's September 8th, 7 to 7. >> Yeah. And so we should be there a little

[1:20:34] beforehand. >> Yeah.

[1:20:36] » As select. >> Do you know if we got our new

[1:20:42] voting machine? >> It's there. He said he's going to have

[1:20:45] it on standby if I recall from our last meeting.

[1:20:49] » He >> There was an email that came out that

[1:20:52] said it was paid for, >> right? Cuz we authorized we had it in

[1:20:58] our possession. Okay. >> Right. We did.

[1:21:00] » We were leasing since >> the last election.

[1:21:02] » It was a a lease to buy agreement. >> And so that's why it was only

[1:21:08] » another $3,500 I think >> to purchase it. So

[1:21:13] » you have one machine to have two now. >> We have two.

[1:21:17] » They're new machines with that photo scanning.

[1:21:21] » They work pretty slick. >> They're they're pretty accurate.

[1:21:25] » All right. I would say very accurate. >> Yeah. Good night, Alan.

[1:21:32] » Yeah. I was always a little suspicious of

[1:21:36] electronic machines >> like being a part of the process has

[1:21:42] » I can't say these things are not to be trusted because of what I've seen hand

[1:21:49] counting and these new ones they have an optical scanner

[1:21:53] » right >> that records

[1:21:56] um and it'll print off >> Oh yeah

[1:22:00] » right in votes >> which that was a long time it took took

[1:22:04] us to tally right in >> boats.

[1:22:06] » This thing does it. And so, um, Debbie Deon was helping us last year and Debbie

[1:22:13] and I just asked the moderator if he minded if we just we double checked. We

[1:22:18] didn't have to because the state sends it like you just got the email of the

[1:22:25] election guidelines. >> So, it's not a requirement, but I wanted

[1:22:29] to see. >> Yeah. because we are um election

[1:22:32] officials and we do sign it >> and I was impressed.

[1:22:38] » I was very impressed with the accuracy how it was able to take handwriting

[1:22:44] and tabulate a list for us. >> Wow.

[1:22:47] » And the list was good. >> I like that. I like the idea that you

[1:22:50] can see it on a screen. So if you have people are observing it, they can

[1:22:54] actually see the ballot. >> It's an optical scan you can see. So

[1:22:57] it's picking up any little mark that's either inside or within the range

[1:23:02] » and then you add those list and tallies it up. I used to have three tables, two

[1:23:07] people at a table divy up all the ballots and there'd be two sets of eyes

[1:23:12] on them. So I'd have one group of people and then another one writing down the

[1:23:17] names and then you switch then that person goes through the same pile

[1:23:22] compares it to make sure you didn't miss anybody. So every ballot get got

[1:23:28] looked at separately by at least two people

[1:23:31] » to make sure you didn't miss anything. >> Oh, wow.

[1:23:33] » So, when when Debbie and I were doing, >> right?

[1:23:36] » Yeah. You need a lot of people to do that. But when we were doing this,

[1:23:40] » at first it came out wrong and I said, "No, let's go through and check. Maybe

[1:23:45] we tallied wrong. It was like one vote off." And we went through all over

[1:23:51] again. And it was we had tallied wrong. That's the other thing is there's

[1:23:56] there's great potential for math errors particularly on the supervisor of the

[1:24:00] checklist because they have to go through all their books

[1:24:03] » and they total up everybody that signed in and got a ballot but well like 20 30

[1:24:09] pages. >> Yeah.

[1:24:11] » And uh >> not only that

[1:24:13] » wicked math there it is there's a lot that goes into it.

[1:24:18] » There's a lot of >> So they're going to be doing a ballot

[1:24:20] machine test I saw in the sign out there.

[1:24:22] » Yeah. I'm doing my tomorrow morning >> and I think that's tomorrow morning here

[1:24:28] as well. >> Was that the date?

[1:24:30] » Yeah, I think it is tomorrow. >> It would be good to to observe that

[1:24:35] » to see what goes into these. >> This is tomorrow morning when where

[1:24:40] » it's on the sign outside. I can't remember the time. Might have been 8:00

[1:24:43] in the morning. >> I don't you get you have to

[1:24:45] » I shouldn't say a time. Somebody wants to observe that they can show up and

[1:24:50] observe it. >> Yeah. [clears throat]

[1:24:51] » Yeah. I'd like to be here with that. >> You usually run 50

[1:24:53] » Well, look at the sign outside. >> You usually run 50 balls through every

[1:24:58] which way. So, you end up running about 200 ballots through [snorts] face up,

[1:25:02] face down, and dim in and you compare the numbers to make sure the optical

[1:25:07] reader saw the same ballot all four times, no matter how it was put in.

[1:25:12] » Yeah, I think yeah, Claudia is part of that group.

[1:25:18] » Yeah. Yeah. So, that being said, like when I was first elected,

[1:25:22] there was a recount that was um

[1:25:28] needed on just on one of the Warren articles.

[1:25:30] » And so, when you do a recount on that, you're hand counting. And we had people

[1:25:36] all around the table and the moderator was supervising and then the the people

[1:25:41] who petitioned for a recount were walking and watching and

[1:25:48] And again, the machine was very accurate.

[1:25:54] » Now, I don't know. I can't speak for other

[1:25:58] like big cities and all of that. I can't speak for that. So, I'm not saying,

[1:26:03] » "Hey, go Dominion. We love >> I'm just saying my experience.

[1:26:08] » I have never seen an issue with the machines here.

[1:26:12] » And if we don't have them, we will need a lot more volunteers."

[1:26:16] » Yeah. But it's okay.

[1:26:18] » Tough to find militaries because you know

[1:26:23] » there's not a lot of young people actually participating in the work.

[1:26:28] » I've been elected into an election with older folks.

[1:26:34] » The older some people get, the more mistakes they make.

[1:26:37] » What? >> I heard that. That's not about us. Well,

[1:26:40] » it's other people. Okay. >> Thanks for clarification.

[1:26:43] » Can happen. >> Can happen.

[1:26:47] So, I think you're going to get a good >> Yeah.

[1:26:49] » because you're being a relatively light, >> right?

[1:26:53] » Um I mean, you never know. People can surprise you.

[1:26:57] » A huge light election. >> It it appears that it's going to be

[1:27:03] » what what election >> this this primary

[1:27:06] » really. Well, the turnout is not going to be like we have had. Like if there's

[1:27:11] a fiery march, you know, if the deliberatives stoke a

[1:27:16] lot of energy, then them can go along >> and then the November votes when it's

[1:27:23] presidential tend to go.

[1:27:27] » So, >> this this will be a nice nonpicky

[1:27:32] » election for you to >> be inaugurated into. Yep.

[1:27:37] » Be able to see the process.

[1:27:41] » So, I have a little bit left on or a few things for um the DPW being the liaison.

[1:27:50] » Oh, okay.

[1:27:54] » One thing I have is I met with Peter Thursday and went kind

[1:28:01] of to the the shop and checked out the equipment.

[1:28:06] kind of went over some of his budget stuff for next year. Um trying to put

[1:28:13] together some stuff together with him. One of the couple things that came up is

[1:28:19] um he was wondering about if we could set up a time

[1:28:24] and a place and I'm not familiar with so I need you guys' help with doing a

[1:28:30] public hearing I believe for a scenic road

[1:28:34] um out at um Timbertop. It's a there's a section in there that's

[1:28:40] a scenic road. >> Okay. And there's trees that are being

[1:28:45] hit with the plow that are like right on the the road. And

[1:28:51] he said that when he plows the between a lot of like if a car is coming, he's had

[1:28:58] in the past have to back the plow truck up, let the car by and then come

[1:29:03] through. Um, um, I've been told that there was a a

[1:29:10] small either accident or something in the past with the plow in a car or

[1:29:15] vehicle. Um,

[1:29:18] » it's hard to see the edge of the rain cloud.

[1:29:20] » Yeah. >> Um, when you're driving at 20 miles an

[1:29:24] hour, >> right?

[1:29:26] So from my understanding is [snorts] um there's the on a scenic road you are

[1:29:34] not allowed to touch any tree that's greater than 15 in

[1:29:39] » in circumference. >> So

[1:29:42] » we just we just had something like that over on um is it Collins route across

[1:29:48] from the ambulance? >> Yeah,

[1:29:50] » I think that's >> where I remember the

[1:29:54] the procedure. Yeah. >> But go on.

[1:29:57] » So what he's asking is that he would he could go out and mark potential

[1:30:04] tree or trees that he's considering that needs to be taken out to help the

[1:30:09] plowing situation. And we would hold a public hearing

[1:30:16] to for any resident or anybody that wants to go look. They would be marked.

[1:30:23] Markham and just see if we could help out that situation with the polling

[1:30:30] coming this winter. >> So, are you looking at or thinking about

[1:30:34] just giving that an offset from from the trees and and mark that spot?

[1:30:41] » What he was saying is he would drive the road because he knows which trees they

[1:30:46] are and identify them with some kind of flag.

[1:30:50] each one that he wants to remove and then

[1:30:53] » so he wants to remove them rather than protect them,

[1:30:56] » right? He wants to cut them down. >> You get them beyond this the

[1:31:00] » toow. Doesn't that >> Okay. So, we have a um somebody who's a

[1:31:06] forester who manages that. I believe it's Becky.

[1:31:11] » Wow. I think on a scenic road from what my

[1:31:15] understanding and this is just it's new to me so I don't I haven't completely

[1:31:19] read [snorts] >> but in in the hard road to travel book

[1:31:23] we read kind of the RSA of what he's allowed or not allowed to do and right

[1:31:28] now we're not allowed to touch them. >> Correct.

[1:31:32] » However, there is a way to address the issue with the public by holding a

[1:31:40] public hearing of a public meeting before

[1:31:44] winter that we could

[1:31:48] and what we were suggesting or Peter was suggesting is he'll go out pre-mark

[1:31:53] everything so nobody's wondering what trees would be taken out pre-mark

[1:31:57] everything so before the hearing so everybody can go drive it or do what

[1:32:02] they're going to do and then we can have a a boat on it or

[1:32:07] » it seems like On top of that, he could use his

[1:32:12] portable sign.

[1:32:16] » Yeah. >> Right out on timber top, you know,

[1:32:18] public here. >> Yeah.

[1:32:20] » Yeah. We would do all the posting and all the proper things. But I'm I guess

[1:32:24] what I'm asking as a board is he's asking me to ask us that. Can we set

[1:32:29] this up >> and give us some trees we're talking?

[1:32:34] » Um, no. But he will go and do it. I don't it it doesn't sound like it's a

[1:32:40] lot, but there's enough out there where he's saying that.

[1:32:43] » You know, if we would take the trees down using our own staff for you to

[1:32:47] something we have to spend money on, but >> I think he would do it. I'm pretty sure

[1:32:51] he would take them down. >> Well, it still has to go through to take

[1:32:59] the trees down. I believe it has to go through a a state um

[1:33:06] » arburist arborist. >> Well, either an arborist or you have

[1:33:12] state permission to take them down even if you were taking.

[1:33:15] » Do you are you aware of the laws with scenic roads?

[1:33:17] » I don't I'm going to have to look it up. I haven't

[1:33:22] pleasure of cutting trees on a scenic road. So, I

[1:33:26] don't really know. Well, that's where apparently like I was saying is [snorts]

[1:33:32] there's the biggest factor me as a for one for me being le liaison talking with

[1:33:38] Peter is it's a major safety problem >> and the fact that I hear him saying that

[1:33:46] he's got to, you know, when he sees somebody and it's so tight they got to,

[1:33:50] you know, basically slam the brakes on, lift the wing up, back the truck kind of

[1:33:56] on the side of the road, let the car by and go.

[1:33:58] » Yeah. No, it's >> I mean that's a hazard.

[1:34:01] » It can be dangerous because then because the plow can also bounce off the tree

[1:34:04] into the >> Well, and that was the other thing he

[1:34:06] was [clears throat] saying is that he said if you want if you kind of want to

[1:34:08] know the trees, most of them have plow dings on them right now.

[1:34:12] » Yeah, >> they're already marked.

[1:34:14] » Yeah, >> you don't need to flag them,

[1:34:16] » but he will go and flag them. So, >> and people complain about them.

[1:34:20] » But that's important to get this procedure down.

[1:34:23] » Yeah. >> Before he flags anything. Yeah,

[1:34:26] » we need to we need to publicly know the procedure.

[1:34:29] » Yeah, >> I'll look up the procedure

[1:34:31] » and be sure that uh it's something that >> he can send out some guys with chainsaw

[1:34:37] and chipper and get it done, >> right?

[1:34:39] » As opposed to what Lou brought up. It may be that you need

[1:34:42] » Yeah. >> more

[1:34:45] » permission. >> Yeah.

[1:34:47] » And typically people who have beautiful trees along the road don't really want

[1:34:51] to give them up, >> but This would be within the rightway of

[1:34:56] the highway. >> Well, I don't know because it's a scenic

[1:35:00] road. So, I there stipulations that says I know I read the RS

[1:35:06] » uh that said that you you cannot it's you can he can remove any I think

[1:35:12] there's a height limitation like 4T and under 15 inches in circumference.

[1:35:19] » Do you have this guy? >> I don't. No, I was reading it down in

[1:35:23] his >> his office. We kind of went through it,

[1:35:27] » but >> yeah,

[1:35:28] » 15 in is not very big. It's like >> circumference

[1:35:33] » six or seven inch. >> We hit this problem

[1:35:36] » probably three or four years ago. >> Oh, wasn't that on Collins Road?

[1:35:41] » Collins Road. >> Yeah.

[1:35:42] » And what ended up happening? Were they able to date?

[1:35:44] » A lot of people were pissed off. >> Okay.

[1:35:48] » What about the procedure that I think I think they were less than 6 in

[1:35:54] » and that's why he just I think he marked them out and said these are coming down

[1:35:59] » and we're allowed to. >> Now I'm curious if there's any

[1:36:02] conservation organizations along that scenic road

[1:36:07] stretch cuz >> could be you know

[1:36:10] » if there's a conservation easement along there then they have a say. The other

[1:36:16] option of course is send a smaller truck but

[1:36:22] » for one stretch of the road >> option of course is what?

[1:36:25] » Send a smaller truck. >> Yeah. Pickup truck.

[1:36:27] » Yes. >> Rather than a 10 wheeler, you know, send

[1:36:30] a [snorts] 350 something. But >> the issue is is most of the road is

[1:36:36] wide. >> Yeah.

[1:36:37] » And then it goes into the scenic road. >> So what would you do? all the the little

[1:36:43] bit or not little bit but the portion of the road with one truck and then you're

[1:36:46] sending in another. >> It's it's it's that would be labor

[1:36:50] intensive. >> Yeah. Well, it's Yeah. And then I mean

[1:36:53] usually when you have a lot of snow and you don't have a lot of room to push it

[1:36:58] out, >> right?

[1:36:59] » I mean a pickup truck may not even be able to pile it at times, right?

[1:37:04] » And then you got the issue of salt and sand back. But I get it.

[1:37:09] So anyway, I'd like to know how to [clears throat]

[1:37:12] do that. Um, and then the second thing that I have is

[1:37:19] um

[1:37:23] is that he was um he's got a request to add a street light.

[1:37:30] » Powerful. A street light. >> A street light. Yeah, I saw that. and we

[1:37:36] just want to know like what's associated with that kind of project or what is our

[1:37:40] procedure as a town. I don't I'm not sure.

[1:37:44] » I guess it would depend on the location. Further information on that.

[1:37:49] » Um they're saying it's on Spindle Back Lane.

[1:37:55] So, there was a request from a resident for a to add a street light on a power

[1:38:01] pole and

[1:38:05] Peter was wanting to know basically he knows that there's cost associated

[1:38:10] with the project and he's just wondering if we get more information on the

[1:38:16] process and also >> just to let it know let the resident

[1:38:21] know how it works. And we have had in my time as selectman at least three

[1:38:28] requests to remove street lights >> by people who live next door there.

[1:38:34] » Yeah. >> Why is there a street light?

[1:38:36] » Well, it it does frequently cost about 30 bucks a month

[1:38:42] » for a street light depending on >> That's about right. Yeah.

[1:38:46] » Pay them to put it up or whatever, but I' I'd imagine it's just a vote from the

[1:38:52] board to add another street light >> but

[1:38:57] » I would like to know how many we have and pay for

[1:39:00] » that was my question >> it should be in AP [snorts]

[1:39:03] » yeah one of >> separated

[1:39:06] » a number of years ago >> um

[1:39:09] your electrical utility >> ever so typically they they identify by

[1:39:14] cost and location >> yeah uh all the street lights and Um

[1:39:21] because a lot of times you never know whether the street light

[1:39:26] is out until somebody complains and you call up the utility and say, "Hey, I'm

[1:39:29] paying 30 bucks a month whether this thing is on or not. This one's out.

[1:39:34] » Fix it." >> But

[1:39:38] then let me try to look into it. Some of the people that were complaining

[1:39:42] about the street lights were always in the middle of the park um because the

[1:39:47] cotton lights weren't going down until after 11:00 11 p.m.

[1:39:53] » Weren't going on until after >> until 10 or 11 p.m.

[1:39:58] So, uh you know, their complaint was it was coming right into their living room

[1:40:02] or whatever. >> And um I don't remember how it got

[1:40:08] settled out, but I remember what the the length of time was or or

[1:40:15] anything else, but we've become much more sensitive to it.

[1:40:20] » This was especially when they were bringing in new street lights for night

[1:40:25] games for the league group.

[1:40:30] » Have you have you gone through any sort of transition from

[1:40:36] halli lights or sodium vapor to LEDs. >> Yeah, that was when I was both when we

[1:40:42] were first come on. It was winding down. >> So, your LED.

[1:40:48] [clears throat]

[1:40:55] » Yeah, that's a good question. >> I I'll look at it. I'm pretty sure

[1:41:02] it should be easy to know how many they're building and

[1:41:06] » Yeah.

[1:41:11] It it joged my memory on an email

[1:41:17] that I received maybe a month and a half ago of a

[1:41:22] resident asking if we could get fiber optic cable

[1:41:27] put into town. I guess it's not cable at that point, fiber optic internet. I

[1:41:33] asked Jack if there was any kind of processes

[1:41:37] uh he pointed me to some of the RSAs that would authorize the select men to

[1:41:47] there's a few different avenues that are available in doing it.

[1:41:54] » From what I read, the town could actually offer a financing package to a

[1:42:00] company to come in and run the fiber optics. [snorts]

[1:42:06] » We have had fiber optic

[1:42:09] » and this is where >> throughout the whole town until this

[1:42:11] that snowstorm the one that that knocked down

[1:42:18] » I'm not aware of that >> it was all the whole town was wired up

[1:42:23] for fiber optic and then when that snowstorm came around and

[1:42:28] » the ice storm >> the ice storm

[1:42:29] » that took that cut >> that broke every utility pole in

[1:42:36] at the base. >> You can kind of picture that.

[1:42:41] » I mean, I I understand we have Comcast cable and I'm not clear why that's not

[1:42:48] sufficient, but I did a little bit of looking into

[1:42:53] it and it sounds like the town could offer up a bond. So, we would loan the

[1:42:57] money based on the our taxpayers would be backing it to a company to come in

[1:43:05] and get infrastructure in.

[1:43:08] » Well, I think that's what's happening over in Greenville right now.

[1:43:13] » Yeah, there's frequently a broadband initiative and um the company that would

[1:43:19] install the broadband does the math in terms of how many potential customers

[1:43:25] they could get. >> And then that drives the investment

[1:43:30] number for them. and then they um pay off the loan, right, based on

[1:43:41] their subscriber fees, right? >> And um basically, um the town's not

[1:43:47] really on the hook for if there's enough potential subscribers for them to pay

[1:43:53] off the bond, they simply do that. It just saves the utility from having to

[1:43:58] take out to do that. The town does it, but the is

[1:44:04] has a hold list so that they won't be on the hook for it

[1:44:08] » once the utility signs on that's hey we can pay for this then they own it

[1:44:13] basically you borrow the money they're going to pay it off

[1:44:17] » it has some risk >> and you go ahead and tell which lines

[1:44:21] have have or which utility poles have fiber optic because they'll usually be

[1:44:26] the fiber optic is um uh painted or covered over uh with

[1:44:36] orange >> orange. Yeah.

[1:44:38] » On the top of the pole. >> Well, the the line itself you can see it

[1:44:42] on the pole. >> So, they usually run on the poles and

[1:44:46] not under >> on the utility.

[1:44:48] » Oh, right. You wouldn't There's not enough money on Earth to run all

[1:44:51] underground >> because we grow rocks around here. So,

[1:44:54] the digging is terrible. You know that, right?

[1:44:56] » Yeah. No, they they string it right up and and so generally

[1:45:01] The lower voltage is closer to >> it's the lowest one.

[1:45:05] » The higher up you go on the pole, the higher the voltage is.

[1:45:08] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[1:45:09] » And then they just work out the spacing. >> Well, actually the second line up which

[1:45:13] would be red is for alarm systems. >> Also,

[1:45:18] » in any case, >> it looked like the options that I saw

[1:45:23] for the board and you could do your own research.

[1:45:27] I think I had left them papers at home on my office desk. They didn't they

[1:45:33] didn't appear to me to be um what I would consider a viable option for us.

[1:45:41] They they carried risk. >> Yeah.

[1:45:44] » The options that are available and

[1:45:49] » and I mean nowadays the

[1:45:55] internet off of the cable is pretty fast now compared to where it used to be.

[1:46:02] » And >> yeah, you'd have to do your own test at

[1:46:06] home. >> Yeah.

[1:46:06] » Your up and down speeds. >> Yeah.

[1:46:09] » But I'm just saying in general, >> your broadband is got to be 10 times the

[1:46:13] download. >> Yeah.

[1:46:14] » That your cable is. >> Yeah.

[1:46:16] » Imagine. >> That's true. Yeah.

[1:46:18] Uh, and in fact, that's what I don't know if you've noticed, but AT&T is uh

[1:46:24] having their AT&T over the air

[1:46:28] program. >> Oh, are they?

[1:46:30] » When is that? Is that available now? >> It is. Just you call them up and they'll

[1:46:37] tell you if uh if it'll actually reach you.

[1:46:44] » I've heard of that. And it's all >> long time ago. I heard that's how all

[1:46:47] the internet was going to be >> and it it'll be

[1:46:50] » digital air waves. >> Well, you know, you also have satellite

[1:46:54] stuff. >> Yeah.

[1:46:55] » And that's kind of >> that's a biggie for Elon Musk.

[1:47:00] » Yeah. >> It's working.

[1:47:03] I mean and and even if the risks are very low to the town, I am more prone to

[1:47:10] be let the market do what it does. If if a provider sees

[1:47:18] an opportunity in our town, I would think they would be approaching

[1:47:24] us >> and we wouldn't have to have 20, 30 year

[1:47:28] bonds being [snorts] let out possibly. >> It's, you know,

[1:47:33] It all depends. If AT&T has got a a good market in a particular area,

[1:47:40] um they're using 5G for uh for their internet.

[1:47:49] » Unfortunately, we have a great um antenna up uh

[1:47:56] by wherever that the road is. Um and that uh the top lines over there are not

[1:48:09] AT&T. They're something else >> on your road.

[1:48:14] » No, this is the one. What was the what was the place that we were we were put

[1:48:19] having the um um

[1:48:24] the tower? >> Oh, older.

[1:48:27] » Older room.

[1:48:32] And we have an antenna. Uh we we had a contract on on the application

[1:48:42] where um we allowed them to put it in the way they wanted to, but we had to

[1:48:48] have the top space for that. >> Yeah. That

[1:48:52] » that line >> last year it was shot down

[1:48:56] on the March ballot. We were we had a quote to get our emergency services set

[1:49:03] up there and it >> but that was going to be a hard one

[1:49:05] because it was about 186 or 189,000. >> Now it's probably going to be more

[1:49:10] because another year went by, >> right?

[1:49:14] » Yep. And that's the vertex tower, which we're

[1:49:19] unsure of where the uh bond is extra.

[1:49:28] All right. Do you have any other items, >> Lou?

[1:49:35] » No. >> I did want to bring up again our uh

[1:49:40] warrant for next year. Any thoughts on it?

[1:49:47] just we have to draft up the warrant for next March. So you look at last year's

[1:49:54] and then consider if the board wants to put another article in here.

[1:50:11] It's something something we should be thinking about. And for every year that

[1:50:16] I've been on board, I've said I'd like to see an article that establishes an

[1:50:22] actual budget committee,

[1:50:27] which we have had in the past. What would that look like?

[1:50:32] » That would be that would take away your power to set the budget as a select.

[1:50:39] » So you could set it up. So basically it's I believe it's a two3 two vote

[1:50:45] maybe just some >> um to establish a budget committee and

[1:50:49] then you have the wording and um you could have the budget committee

[1:50:55] comprised of so many members probably elected. So they they'd get

[1:51:02] elected town meeting >> and um they would kind of do what what

[1:51:07] Stephanie does, which is that they would meet with department heads, review their

[1:51:12] budgets, make recommendations, and um and then the board gets to weigh

[1:51:18] in and um on what the budget committee has

[1:51:23] done. You could decide you like what they've done or not like what they've

[1:51:26] done or um and and usually there's a select board representative on a budget

[1:51:32] committee so that this this body can kind of be kept in the loop of what that

[1:51:38] body is doing. >> And um and if you want to try to

[1:51:42] influence their decisions on budget just based based on your experience as a

[1:51:47] select board, you put that input in and then the budget committee has a public

[1:51:52] hearing on the budget and they present it to the public and then it goes to

[1:51:58] meeting and there'll be a warn article recommending it one way or another.

[1:52:04] » So, but it but it does put the budgeting process into that committees.

[1:52:10] » It does and the authority of the budget. >> So, it kind of reverses what we have

[1:52:15] now. The selectman become more of an advisory to the budget committee if I'm

[1:52:20] understanding it correctly. Yep. Yep. >> I know last year we had on the ballot to

[1:52:29] turn this to a five member board.

[1:52:34] » And did that pass? >> No.

[1:52:37] » It's the same. It was a petitioned article.

[1:52:43] » Yeah. >> Right here.

[1:52:48] » But I think In my mind, uh there's a lot that comes

[1:52:55] to this board.

[1:53:02] » Yeah, I was pushing that raising the the board to five.

[1:53:08] » Um because that in my opinion it gives you a a wider spread on ideas from each

[1:53:16] of the people. >> Yeah. Yeah. We went through pros and

[1:53:21] cons. I was pretty neutral

[1:53:25] on it,

[1:53:31] but my thought is is that there's a lot that comes here

[1:53:36] » and that having a an actual budget committee

[1:53:42] would allow this board to focus on things that,

[1:53:49] you know, like building number two and all these things that just have such a

[1:53:55] hard time getting traction because

[1:54:01] you might just start the ball rolling and now it's budget season

[1:54:05] » but it was taking all the power away from

[1:54:08] » it was for the budget. Yeah, we we the the select men would become managers of

[1:54:13] what the budget committee >> but they didn't have the right

[1:54:21] to go against the budget committee. >> Well, I mean, you can voice your

[1:54:25] opinion. It's America >> and you're an elect you're elected to

[1:54:29] represent the people and if you feel that the budget committee is going

[1:54:32] against the people, it would be your duty

[1:54:35] to tell that budget committee you are not

[1:54:39] doing what the people elected and I don't know if you can do a whole lot

[1:54:43] more than that, but you can at least do that.

[1:54:46] » Well, of course, you work with to see what roads he wants to tackle and get

[1:54:53] some general pricing on that that you build in.

[1:54:58] » Yeah, we do have an active road committee.

[1:55:01] » Oh, okay. >> Have you been to any of the meetings

[1:55:04] yet? >> No.

[1:55:05] » So, I think they usually have one towards the end of the year to review.

[1:55:10] Right now, it's ongoing. >> Yeah.

[1:55:12] » The projects that they slated for this year.

[1:55:15] » Yeah. So I think they will typically have one to review how that went

[1:55:21] and then double check the list.

[1:55:28] » Pretty hard on road because they still have to do the top coat.

[1:55:34] » I [clears throat] believe I read that they're working on

[1:55:37] » Yeah. >> Is the paving crew in town yet or do you

[1:55:40] know? >> Haven't seen

[1:55:41] » they haven't done yet.

[1:55:46] So this budget committee so what um so the purpose or the reasoning you're

[1:55:54] thinking is is it similar to the finance committee?

[1:56:00] » No it's it would turn the dynamics that the if you want to call it the power

[1:56:06] dynamics >> it would be turned on its head.

[1:56:09] » Yeah. They would have the authority. >> Yeah. Well, is the finance committee

[1:56:16] just a >> their advisory

[1:56:18] » volunteer? So, this would probably actually replace the finance committee.

[1:56:22] Yeah, it would it would evolve >> and then the budget committee would hold

[1:56:25] I'll say quarterly meetings as often as they want but quarterly meetings to

[1:56:30] monitor the budget produce a report quarterly budget report [clears throat]

[1:56:35] that could be presented here or at their own meeting or but somehow you get it

[1:56:39] out there so that people can monitor the budget.

[1:56:41] » That was my next question is could they go further and

[1:56:47] do the quarterlys you know or be in charge of ing them or

[1:56:52] assembling it, >> right?

[1:56:54] » You know, and then presenting that to the select board,

[1:56:59] » right? >> Just as a review. And

[1:57:01] » yeah, and you you could we could look at wording

[1:57:06] that petitioner say no less. They the budget committee would meet no less than

[1:57:10] quarterly. Yeah. Report their results to the select board.

[1:57:16] » Something like that. >> Yeah. So

[1:57:20] » yeah, >> it hasn't been met with welcome arms by

[1:57:26] no matter who I've served with. Um, and that's okay. I didn't I haven't

[1:57:32] pushed the issue. >> So, you know, it it's actually

[1:57:36] it's actually not a bad dynamic to have a five member board and a budget

[1:57:40] committee because it it actually increases the public participation and

[1:57:44] transparency in view. And you know, communities like that. Not

[1:57:50] not all of them, but >> yeah.

[1:57:53] » But then you then you have to actually find people that want to

[1:57:57] » do the work. >> This is the problem. That was one of my

[1:58:00] because I like I said, I was pretty neutral on the fiveman board.

[1:58:04] » There there's definite advantages and then the disadvantages.

[1:58:09] One that really stuck out at me is you may end up with a permanently

[1:58:16] appointed board members because so the election happens and nobody puts a name

[1:58:22] in. Now by law we don't the select men then

[1:58:29] appoint the unfilled thing until next year.

[1:58:33] So you could it could backfire on you and you could end up with a more stacked

[1:58:38] board. >> So it was a well if nobody runs then you

[1:58:44] stay three. I mean you get to fill a vacancy but

[1:58:49] I guess we'd actually want to check procedurally whether I mean a vacancy

[1:58:56] could be you run you win and then you die or you move. That's a vacancy.

[1:59:02] But when is a vacancy not a vacancy? Well, maybe when somebody didn't run in

[1:59:06] the first place. >> That's just

[1:59:08] » Okay. So, I suppose >> so we'd have to answer that question.

[1:59:11] » It would depend on what So, it's a quorum.

[1:59:14] » Yeah. Otherwise, you could stack your own deck. You know what I mean?

[1:59:17] » So, I'm just not sure the answer to that. But,

[1:59:19] » you're right. I didn't think of that. Three might be the quorum and there

[1:59:23] would be no need. >> Three would be.

[1:59:26] » Yeah. So there might be no need to appoint

[1:59:31] » maybe I don't know I didn't research >> I think nor did I think the board would

[1:59:35] have the option >> I think there'd be a certain amount of

[1:59:39] pressure to fill a vacant seat >> because once the town votes for five

[1:59:44] they kind of want five. They don't want three. They wanted three. They would

[1:59:48] have voted for five. So there's a fair amount of pressure to to replace that

[1:59:52] seat >> to carry out the wishes of the voters.

[1:59:57] Yeah. The the push for the people who didn't want it was that well now you're

[2:00:03] going to be paying three five salaries instead of three salaries.

[2:00:07] » Well, the the pay rate >> we make a whole

[2:00:12] [clears throat] >> that was that was probably from a few

[2:00:16] individuals >> would say that.

[2:00:20] Well, that's a that's a good point because um

[2:00:28] you probably want to fix the price in there so that the budget committee

[2:00:34] couldn't

[2:00:37] [laughter] right put a dollar in there.

[2:00:43] So that that's that's Yeah. So those are things that which is why a lot of times

[2:00:48] you're elected treasurer have a statuto warrant article fee and it's not up to

[2:00:53] the board to decide I'm not going to pay the treasurer. You can't do that because

[2:00:57] they're an independent elected official. So they typically are associated with a

[2:01:02] fixed amount of compensation determined by the voters.

[2:01:09] » Interesting. So, we're not drafting the warrant now,

[2:01:13] but I want to put that >> I think it would be beneficial in that

[2:01:20] there are people that we hear from whose only

[2:01:27] concern is finances. >> Sure.

[2:01:30] » That's their only concern. And then we have others who are like, "Hey,

[2:01:36] » what are you doing with building two?" I mean, I know they're very closely

[2:01:40] related, the finances and that, but

[2:01:45] » there's a lot of work and and I think as sitting in this chair

[2:01:49] » and people ask how much time do you have to give

[2:01:54] » have to give you got to come to these meetings

[2:01:59] at least most of them all right if you want to go minimum

[2:02:03] but could give 80 hours a week

[2:02:09] » or more. >> Yeah, you could. And so

[2:02:14] » yeah, >> and certainly

[2:02:16] » town administrator point of view >> um I mean you are responsible for

[2:02:22] running the town and you do get to make those decisions

[2:02:26] » and so yeah you you it's not just showing up at meetings because you have

[2:02:30] to you have to understand enough about the operations and the departments in

[2:02:34] order to get to a meeting like this and make sound decisions with the

[2:02:38] information. So yeah, no, it's a commitment.

[2:02:41] » It's a commitment. >> It is.

[2:02:43] » But but that in a way that also makes five person board easier because you can

[2:02:47] say, well, you're DPW, you're police, fire, you're somebody else, you're

[2:02:53] somebody else. You kind of divvy up the workload

[2:02:56] and then those people kind of report in just like you

[2:02:59] » on on, you know, what what's going on.

[2:03:08] » Yeah. I just wonder on I mean I can see for the future reality.

[2:03:14] It's probably something that I guess I don't know my

[2:03:20] what I think of it, but I do know like as a board like um

[2:03:28] I wouldn't want to pile more onto another committee

[2:03:34] without knowing exactly like I don't know if

[2:03:39] it'd be a good idea to add one now. >> Yeah. Well, And that would it would go

[2:03:44] on the one right next year. >> Yeah.

[2:03:47] » We can't that's something only the voters can do.

[2:03:50] » Correct. >> Is this budget committee

[2:03:52] » Yeah. >> idea. Yeah.

[2:03:56] [clears throat] >> And in fact I think the same applies

[2:03:58] with the finance advisory committee. It is the voters who approve it.

[2:04:03] » Are those elected position? >> They're not elected. Okay.

[2:04:05] » There's an advisor you appoint them >> but the selectmen are okay.

[2:04:09] » The appointees. >> Okay.

[2:04:13] winters. Sorry. >> Yeah.

[2:04:17] » Well, you know, you you've had Is this your third default budget in 10 years or

[2:04:24] so? At least the second, isn't it? >> It could be

[2:04:30] somewhere in there. So maybe

[2:04:34] maybe a budget committee would help help people

[2:04:38] learn about the budget, understand the budget, get more involvement. You know,

[2:04:42] the budget committee could make periodic reports in whatever way they want. Just

[2:04:47] go right on the website or newsletter or something or report it out

[2:04:52] here in minutes. But there is a process that's helpful to

[2:04:59] educate the public on the budget so they can understand what it is they're paying

[2:05:03] for, particularly if it goes up. Obviously, if it goes up because it's

[2:05:06] going to go up forever. It'll go up forever. Utilities are going to cost

[2:05:10] more. Labor is going to cost more. Health insurance is going to cost more.

[2:05:13] On and on it goes. And and you're not necessarily adding services.

[2:05:19] It's just I mean look at the 30% increase in dump trucks for example.

[2:05:26] » I mean fire engines gone from 800,000 to 1.2 million.

[2:05:32] » So the select can also do that as well. >> Yeah.

[2:05:36] » I mean the select can >> No, that's absolutely true.

[2:05:38] » Once we get the full understanding of it to be able to present it,

[2:05:43] » we will have to >> hold a budget hearing, public hearing

[2:05:46] just like a budget committee would. Yeah,

[2:05:50] » that's coming up.

[2:05:54] » Yeah. So, that was one thought I had and we will be voting on our next year's

[2:05:59] warrant at some point of what we're going to have.

[2:06:02] » Do you typically get any communication from the planning board or zoning? They

[2:06:08] will they

[2:06:11] » planning boards ends up having CIP trying to um

[2:06:20] target as to when the next police car or >> or um um police car,

[2:06:31] » right? >> Yeah. dump truck

[2:06:36] would be targeted to come in. And actually, I did one that went back like

[2:06:42] 20 years. And you know, it actually stayed fairly consistent that a dump

[2:06:48] truck was good for 12 years.

[2:06:52] A um the back hole was good for

[2:06:58] I think it was like nine years and then traded in for a new one because that way

[2:07:03] it still had some value. >> Yeah.

[2:07:06] » Etc. etc. >> So you're talking zoning ordinances or

[2:07:11] » Yeah. sort of a thing. >> Yeah.

[2:07:13] » Yeah. They they typically are working >> Okay.

[2:07:17] » independent of us. >> Okay. and we'll just we'll see when

[2:07:21] they're done, we'll find out what article number our budget is and

[2:07:27] then we begin from there. >> Mhm.

[2:07:32] » So, the other one I had in mind was um breaking apart

[2:07:39] what was article 9 last year uh the capital reserves and expendable trust.

[2:07:46] I've noticed towns do it

[2:07:50] similar to this in other towns. Just break them right apart

[2:07:55] and it makes for a long warrant. We have one, two, three, four,

[2:08:04] » nine of them in one article. I think it could be combined like

[2:08:10] highway department expendable trust, building maintenance expendable trust.

[2:08:17] them could be together. >> Yeah. Fire has three. Them could go

[2:08:23] together. >> And then pool and parks and rec could go

[2:08:28] together.

[2:08:33] » How does your town do it? >> Um, it's a mix, but I think we kind of

[2:08:39] break them up into categories. >> Yeah.

[2:08:41] » I mean, you know, some people like the fire department, they don't like the

[2:08:44] police. Some people like Okay, they just pass the whole thing.

[2:08:48] But >> but

[2:08:52] um I think for the moderator it can be a

[2:08:56] little easier. I mean I read all of these and make sure that people

[2:08:59] understand what's in there just because and so you throw out too many numbers

[2:09:06] and by the time you get to the fourth number, you've forgotten the first

[2:09:08] number. >> You know, you've got a good moderator.

[2:09:13] But you you saw what happened last year. The whole thing was voted down and it

[2:09:20] may have been because of I don't know. It's hard to say what it

[2:09:25] was, but possibly some of them may have passed

[2:09:33] had they been separate had they been separated.

[2:09:36] » But you know that but you could you can always make an amendment from the floor.

[2:09:41] I move that we amend article 9 by

[2:09:47] deleting X and X and if the crowd wants to do it then that article goes amended

[2:09:54] » that was that deliberative session. >> Yeah, that was attempted at the

[2:09:58] deliberative but somehow the

[2:10:04] person who was not trying to make this adjustment to it got sidetracked.

[2:10:10] » Okay. and got thrown off course I think because of the discussion it ended up

[2:10:16] starting to going to I I [snorts] don't recall but

[2:10:23] I think it would make sense to have four

[2:10:29] [clears throat] it's something again we're not voting on it tonight but it's

[2:10:33] something for the board to think about and I've had a few a few people um

[2:10:39] request both within the town

[2:10:44] and >> and request what?

[2:10:47] » Separated capital reserves. >> Reserves. Yeah.

[2:10:51] » Requests.

[2:10:54] » Yeah. >> Well, we had, you know, some big numbers

[2:11:00] there because as far as the uh the tower that was going to beundred, I think it

[2:11:07] was 86. That was Yeah, that was just a warrant and I I hope it comes on again

[2:11:11] because I think we need it. That was a communication for the emergency

[2:11:17] services. Yeah, you're right. It was 180,000.

[2:11:20] » Yeah. Yeah. And [clears throat] um but there was also a small cadre of of

[2:11:29] individuals that was on a push of you know we don't want anything out there

[2:11:37] because it's going to cost money and we're paying too much taxes as it is

[2:11:41] now. [clears throat] >> That was in a small cadre. That was the

[2:11:44] majority. That's why everything got voted no right through us and through

[2:11:50] the school. >> There was a small cadre that started off

[2:11:54] you know with that whole concept and then that uh got spread out throughout

[2:12:00] all the >> Yeah.

[2:12:02] » I don't know. I'll leave it to the political analysts they can figure out

[2:12:05] what happened. All I heard was too much money being spent.

[2:12:13] Yeah. Then we had a we'll have petition work,

[2:12:16] » you know, look at what the that things that we had no control over like the

[2:12:20] school budget. >> Yeah.

[2:12:22] » Right. The school budget went up to what 24 million.

[2:12:25] » Mhm. >> Yeah.

[2:12:28] And uh and that's a big kick. >> Yeah.

[2:12:31] » You know, especially for a school that's got what 800 students or something like

[2:12:36] that. >> Now, when we had the reps here, they

[2:12:40] [clears throat] confirmed what the moderator said. there is going to be a

[2:12:44] school um budget tax cap.

[2:12:50] I don't know. Is that a referendum question? Kind of.

[2:12:54] » It's kind of a real weird dynamic because the state is putting it on the

[2:12:58] ballot. If our towns vote for it, we're

[2:13:03] the school board then has to institute it, which

[2:13:07] » unless unless it's there's a override vote by the taxpayers

[2:13:12] » on the March vote. >> Yeah.

[2:13:15] » So, >> yeah, write it. I think

[2:13:19] » I think it's might even be two vote. >> Yeah, I think so.

[2:13:25] » But something but you can override it, I think.

[2:13:28] » And you can do it temporarily >> for a year. you can say no this year we

[2:13:34] need to go more than so there's that was attempted

[2:13:39] three years ago here and then subsequent years and it was

[2:13:43] attempted last year with both the town and the school

[2:13:48] » yeah I mean in a matter of three years it went from it was

[2:13:53] 17,000 18,000 to I'm sorry

[2:13:57] » million million rather up to And that's a big jump for an area with

[2:14:06] with this many students. >> And like I said during the the um

[2:14:13] conference with the um with the people running is that um you

[2:14:19] know they're only graduating um 18 to 24 students

[2:14:26] per year out of the out of the high school. And you you're paying $24

[2:14:32] million to >> Yeah. The numbers change. Yeah. I don't

[2:14:36] know what the >> Well, in large measure, the numbers

[2:14:40] change at the school level because the state pulls back the funding that

[2:14:45] they've historically done. Like they required

[2:14:50] transportation for out of school placement for disabilities and so forth

[2:14:55] and they used to fund it. Well, then they decided, well, we're not going to

[2:14:57] pay that bill anymore. So you have to pay it. They still require you to

[2:15:01] provide all these services, >> but now you have to pay for it. You

[2:15:04] didn't have to pay for it before. >> But that wasn't happening here.

[2:15:08] » Oh yes, it is. >> It just happen.

[2:15:10] » It has because you're subject to the same state funding for transportation,

[2:15:14] special ed, out of school placement, and all the rest because it's just part of

[2:15:17] the state budget. >> So

[2:15:19] » yeah. Well, it could be part of the state budget, but

[2:15:22] » but it's important, I think, for the taxpayers to understand

[2:15:26] what are the expenses that we've actually increased because we made that

[2:15:30] decision and what's the impact of cost shifting at the state level because the

[2:15:36] state always likes to say, "Oh, we're living within our means." Well, no,

[2:15:39] they're not. They're just not paying the bills anymore and they're shoving them

[2:15:43] down to you and you can't avoid them because otherwise you'll violate the

[2:15:46] statute. And so, there's the shifting argument, but then there's also the

[2:15:51] local increase itself and you have to be able to distinguish those.

[2:15:56] » So, how can the town fight that >> elect different people to the

[2:16:01] legislature to actually fund the promises and stop breaking them?

[2:16:04] » It did the same. >> I'm just saying if the state decided to

[2:16:07] say, hey, it's your problem now. >> They've been doing it for a decade.

[2:16:11] » Well, they've been doing it over >> it was discussed and the problem I think

[2:16:16] I think that >> that's been 15 years that Yeah.

[2:16:20] » Claremont. >> What's it down? Claremont. Yeah.

[2:16:22] » And it's just, you know, the judges came down on them or the Supreme Court came

[2:16:27] down on them saying, "You have to pay this."

[2:16:30] » And and nobody's doing it, >> right? And you know why? Because

[2:16:36] » the Supreme Court can say, "Hey, you should fund education better."

[2:16:40] » But they don't have the ability, the authority to appropriate the money,

[2:16:45] » the money to make [clears throat] that happen. That's the legislature. So

[2:16:48] Supreme Court can say whatever they want. They can't force the legislature

[2:16:51] to fund it. They just can't. They never have. That's why it's been unresolved 15

[2:16:56] years. >> So, so there is

[2:16:58] » the municipal level um the state encouraged every community

[2:17:04] to join the state retirement system and they promised that they would pay a

[2:17:08] substantial percentage. That was the endorsement. They made that promise.

[2:17:13] Well, then four or five years ago, they decided maybe not so much. So, they

[2:17:18] pulled the funding from like 50% now back to 35%. And then they went to zero.

[2:17:23] That added millions and millions of dollars onto the back of the property

[2:17:27] taxpayer. >> Oh, check out the retirement line on on

[2:17:30] payroll. >> Yeah. You never used to pay that because

[2:17:33] the state broke its promise and they said, "Oh, we can't afford that

[2:17:37] anymore." What they done down here at the

[2:17:40] property? We said, "What are we supposed to do?" Oh, you'll just have to pay it.

[2:17:44] So, yeah, the state lived within its means because they're picking your

[2:17:48] pocket and they're forcing their bills down onto you

[2:17:53] » and that's why most people's property taxes have increased.

[2:17:56] » So, that's that is one aspect. And the retirement thing I I agree with the

[2:18:02] school funding. >> Um, it depends if you want the thing is

[2:18:06] is if you want the state to take and start kicking in more

[2:18:12] What happens? You know what happens is the state now

[2:18:17] because if the state is going to be funding the majority of our education

[2:18:22] cost, they will control. >> And it was brought up when we had the uh

[2:18:27] representatives here. They said, not that it would happen in Newswitch, but

[2:18:32] maybe the state would look and say, "Hey, you don't have enough students.

[2:18:37] We're shutting your district down. you're moving your kids

[2:18:41] to >> Limeboro because we're not going to keep

[2:18:46] funding you when you only have this many students. And so there there is a

[2:18:51] there's a balancing act to be had there. >> Yeah. But look at the problems that

[2:18:55] Peter or that school district is having now.

[2:18:58] » Look at every school district. >> Yeah.

[2:19:00] » Right. I mean Peterbr's lo are they losing students and then to keep the

[2:19:05] buildings open becomes the >> yeah you have a certain amount of cost

[2:19:10] regardless of if there's any difference >> right if you have a 100 less students

[2:19:14] the building costs don't change >> they don't keep the heat and the lights

[2:19:17] on >> still mass mass yeah still going to fix

[2:19:21] the roof >> although you can decommission a building

[2:19:26] and consolidate True.

[2:19:32] » So that but that can be a local decision.

[2:19:35] But if if it becomes a state funded system.

[2:19:39] » Yeah. But but see I don't no see I disagree because the state used to fund

[2:19:44] it. They decided that they wanted to give a break. Uh they wanted to reduce

[2:19:51] the revenue they collect from at the state level from like the business

[2:19:55] enterprise and and that sort of thing. So they reduced the they reduced their

[2:20:01] budget and they shifted those costs. They don't have any more or less control

[2:20:05] now than they've ever had. Um they just don't want to pay for it anymore.

[2:20:13] » I've actually done quite a bit of analysis on it. I have to send you the

[2:20:16] article. >> I did read your I did read that.

[2:20:18] » The numbers don't lie. Those are state numbers. Those are the numbers from the

[2:20:22] DRA. >> Can you send me a copy of that?

[2:20:24] » Sure. >> Maybe

[2:20:26] Jason. I don't know if I can remember where I saw it [clears throat] when when

[2:20:30] we were >> It was It was in a news news. It was in

[2:20:32] a magazine. >> Yeah.

[2:20:34] » Yeah. >> NHMA magazine.

[2:20:36] » It was NHMA >> that had the article.

[2:20:40] » Yeah. >> Yeah. So, that's interesting.

[2:20:43] » Yeah. >> It was an interesting night with our

[2:20:45] » actually if you if you remember my bottom line,

[2:20:49] » if the state hadn't been downshifting costs for the last 10 years, the local

[2:20:54] property tax would actually be lower today.

[2:20:57] than what was 10 years ago. >> And what would the state property tax

[2:21:02] look like with inflation? >> Whatever it is.

[2:21:06] » Yeah. >> That's the problem.

[2:21:07] » Would my bill >> how the bill? No.

[2:21:11] » Because the state collected the revenue from other sources.

[2:21:15] » Now, you might have paid more on your business enterprise

[2:21:18] tax or broken meals or something, but but

[2:21:24] » Yeah. The numbers are very very good. They

[2:21:27] [laughter] the state has deliberately lowered the revenue it gets and they've

[2:21:31] shifted but there but their law and the requirements and the functions haven't

[2:21:37] changed. And so whatever that takes to pay for it now is on the back of the

[2:21:41] property tax >> and there is an amendment in our

[2:21:45] constitution that

[2:21:49] forbids the state from doing that. >> Sure. The Supreme Court

[2:21:55] » has never bought into that because they say, "Well, you were paying some

[2:22:00] property tax before you. You participated a little bit in school

[2:22:03] funding, so therefore it's not a new tax. You're just paying 50% more of it.

[2:22:10] » So, it's a joke, people. It's a joke." But this is why I say you answer your

[2:22:15] question. >> What's going to change it? elect people

[2:22:18] to conquer that actually care about the property tax because right now it's just

[2:22:22] a dumping ground for the state because they know they can simply say we're not

[2:22:27] going to pay this anymore and you get to pay it

[2:22:31] » and you have no sales tax, >> right? That is true. That is true.

[2:22:39] » Yeah, that's a touchy subject. >> It is.

[2:22:42] » I guess sales and income. >> Yeah. But I but here I'm not a uh I

[2:22:47] don't like the car shifting, but I also don't think an income tax is is the

[2:22:50] solution because in every state that's uh implemented an income tax, it hasn't

[2:22:57] changed the budget. People pay just as much. They just pay differently,

[2:23:01] » right? >> Yeah. I have friends down in like

[2:23:03] Boilston, Mass, and they don't pay a lot less in property tax than me.

[2:23:10] » They pay fairly similar. And you do pay less, but not by much.

[2:23:17] » And that's the problem with the taxes. And I think the argument

[2:23:23] for local control, we got defaulted. When was the last time

[2:23:28] the state got defaulted? They don't. No, they they actually don't

[2:23:34] need to because they can reduce their budget and downshift those costs because

[2:23:39] they're the legislature. Remember, the legisle passed a law, for example, that

[2:23:44] said, "Hey, we're going to share the Roman meals tax. You're going to get

[2:23:46] $100." And then they said, "Well, I'm not going to give you the $100." And you

[2:23:52] say, "Well, I know, but the law says we're going to get $100." They said,

[2:23:56] "Well, guess what? We're going to change the law." They said, "No, you only get

[2:23:58] $50." So, we've changed the law. We changed what we're going to give you,

[2:24:02] and you still have to pay the bill. And they've done that year after year. It's

[2:24:07] amazing. It's amazing. It is like a house of cards. It's like a slight of

[2:24:11] hand. They change the laws as to them

[2:24:16] » and they shove the burden down to you

[2:24:22] [laughter]

[2:24:26] » numbers are what they are. Those are state numbers. I'll send you the article

[2:24:31] to find it again.

[2:24:34] So the ideal is that the state would do these things without being big brother,

[2:24:42] » right? Well, >> they would fund them and not be

[2:24:46] » taken away the local control. >> That's fine. If more people ran after

[2:24:50] House of Senate >> on a platform of property tax reform

[2:24:55] » and getting the state to pay its way, you'd see a change. But it would it

[2:25:02] would kind of go back to Mr. Doyle's argument.

[2:25:06] We would still pay. >> Well, one way or another, somebody's got

[2:25:10] to pay for government. >> Yeah, that's a problem.

[2:25:14] » Well, yeah. Only if you want roads, bridges, healthcare, electricity,

[2:25:18] » and don't forget >> don't forget

[2:25:21] » you go off the grid. >> Yeah. Roads, bridges.

[2:25:24] » They've actually been throwing a lot of money into roads.

[2:25:27] » Yeah. over the last five, 10 years. >> Here's another thing. The the gas tax,

[2:25:33] right? They had a perfectly well constructed

[2:25:36] » system of maintaining the state growth by collecting 25 cents from you,

[2:25:40] » right? >> Or 50 cents when you go through a toll.

[2:25:43] » But they've never actually implemented because they're so they don't want to

[2:25:48] raise the toll and so the roads deteriorate. And so their aid to roads

[2:25:53] and bridges that some of which came down to local isn't there anymore. So guess

[2:25:58] what? Now you have to pay for those roads more than you used to. Why?

[2:26:02] Because they had a perfectly good plan to maintain the state infrastructure,

[2:26:06] but they're too they don't want to fund it,

[2:26:07] » right? >> So there you go.

[2:26:12] » Somebody's got to pay for it. >> They say like a gas tax is what? Like

[2:26:18] » 40 cents. >> 40 something.

[2:26:19] » 42 cents. >> Yeah. that goes to

[2:26:24] » and now the electric cars >> bypass it.

[2:26:27] » No, >> well they do

[2:26:29] » electric cars actually their registration is higher than

[2:26:33] » that was explained to us. They did get the electric car fee to offset the loss

[2:26:38] in revenue of gas tax. But >> and with an electric car though there is

[2:26:43] I mean I don't have the data but if you think about it if you're using power

[2:26:50] that's Also, you know, they it's a lot of well, it's greener,

[2:26:55] » but you still have a power plant or something generating the power to be a

[2:27:01] And what's that pollution? >> Something's chugging away.

[2:27:03] » If you add more to it, you >> used as many ounces of fossil fuel to

[2:27:10] create the batteries and the currents and everything as as you would if you

[2:27:15] use if you if you burn. But there is still at least with the

[2:27:21] » the same amount of of wear and tear um with electric cars that they do as

[2:27:28] gas cars >> on the road.

[2:27:30] » On the road >> and I've heard it's more

[2:27:32] » well they're heavier. >> They're heavier

[2:27:34] » because of batteries. I don't know if it gives more weight to generally

[2:27:38] » at least with my gas powered truck I don't have to park it 200 feet away from

[2:27:43] the building because it might spontaneously combust.

[2:27:49] Yeah. Anyways, that was good. Good. It was a good meeting with the reps and it

[2:27:54] spawned this discussion really took up the bulk of it was education funding.

[2:28:00] » Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, all they have to do is pay

[2:28:02] what they used to pay. I'm not even talking about increasing. Just pay what

[2:28:05] you used to pay >> because [snorts and clears throat] we're

[2:28:08] used to it back then. >> Yeah.

[2:28:10] So, I'm anticipating we are going to see another um petitioned article for strict

[2:28:15] operating budget increase limitation policy.

[2:28:20] » This one passed last year and when it passed, I said, "Well, there's a

[2:28:25] referendum to the select one." >> Which one passed?

[2:28:29] » That was number 21. >> 21. There's a petition article, but

[2:28:33] » it didn't follow the correct format because the state sets up these

[2:28:39] things that we hear about so often called RSAs and the procedure wasn't

[2:28:45] followed by this petitioner. And so our attorney said it's actually not

[2:28:49] enforceable. >> Oh.

[2:28:51] » Because there was supposed to be another part of

[2:28:56] it before this was submitted.

[2:29:01] However, the point got across and I think it'll be back and perhaps it'll be

[2:29:06] back done in the correct policy.

[2:29:11] I mean procedure. Sorry. >> The problem with the CPI is it doesn't

[2:29:16] really track what you're what government does.

[2:29:20] » Yeah. >> You know, nobody's

[2:29:22] » it's a starting point is all it was. And I think they took that verbiage from the

[2:29:26] state. >> They might have. thinks so if I recall,

[2:29:32] » but that the CPI has no connection to the price of a fire engine or an

[2:29:36] ambulance or health insurance. >> No,

[2:29:38] » you know, nobody's health insurance went up 3%.

[2:29:42] » Right. Right. Right. So, and most of what this budget is is labor. Labor and

[2:29:50] heavy equipment. >> There's a few pens on the side, but it's

[2:29:54] and none of that aligns with the CPI, >> right?

[2:30:01] I expected to be back. Um, article 22. >> Well, we're looking I'm sorry. We're

[2:30:08] looking at replacing the um the tobacco, right?

[2:30:17] Because the um

[2:30:25] » I don't think it's on. >> Fill me in. I haven't heard anything

[2:30:28] yet? >> No. Peter had mentioned years ago that

[2:30:31] his long-term goal would be to get a wheeled excavator and sell the backos

[2:30:36] because the backos are >> harder to Yeah. They're no good for

[2:30:40] ditching. And I mean, they have some purpose, but

[2:30:44] » the wheeled excavator would be a much better

[2:30:47] » Yeah, the lease. The lease is coming due >> or

[2:30:53] on the on the >> Yeah, that's the loader. That's the only

[2:30:56] equipment we've leased. >> Okay.

[2:30:58] » That is coming to be curious to see how it closes out because you are told what

[2:31:03] you're told and then you see what you see. And I hope it'll be what we were

[2:31:08] told. >> We'll see. [laughter]

[2:31:12] » The last one I I just want to talk about uh article 22. [clears throat]

[2:31:17] [snorts] The town

[2:31:23] used to have it as a selectman's um submitted article similar to

[2:31:31] all the way up to article 16. It was the selectman who would bring

[2:31:37] this to the voters. Do you want to make donations to people right

[2:31:41] » to organizations? Um few years back I brought up the point

[2:31:46] that a lot of these things it just they were politically there is a political

[2:31:52] firestorm. Do you recall that in 2021? >> I've been through it but

[2:31:57] » I'm saying different communities >> this ideological thing of

[2:32:00] » oh sure >> all this

[2:32:02] » all these businesses going political and pushing different agendas.

[2:32:08] um it still goes on to a little bit lesser degree right now, but it does

[2:32:12] still go on. And so I I looked at that article and I said,

[2:32:16] "Three of these things are pushing agendas that are opposite of what I

[2:32:22] believe in. And if this thing passes, I my town is forcing me

[2:32:31] to fund something that I'm

[2:32:37] morally opposed to. Now, to me, that was like, okay, wait a

[2:32:42] minute. So, I back up and I look, okay, so maybe I like this one here,

[2:32:49] but my neighbor hates him or my neighbor has a moral objection to it.

[2:32:56] And I thought, what is the town doing raising taking money from the taxpayers?

[2:33:03] This would be the selectman at that time. the selectman would say, "Yeah,

[2:33:08] we're going to take money from you guys and we're going to give it to this

[2:33:11] person and that one and that one and this one, but we're not going to give to

[2:33:15] that one." I said, "It just seems like that's not a

[2:33:20] » but that was the people's choice, >> but it's not a proper use of public

[2:33:26] funds in >> it's not a public fund in my opinion. It

[2:33:30] is a a person's choice. >> Only the people who voted yes

[2:33:36] That was their choice. The people who voted no

[2:33:40] » are being conscripted by the government to support a charity.

[2:33:45] » How do you know that they're conscripted?

[2:33:47] » Because if I don't pay my property taxes,

[2:33:51] this board will send the sheriffs over there to boot me out and they'll take my

[2:33:57] land away. And this is raised by

[2:34:02] property taxes. So here the list is um that I was

[2:34:10] constrained last year. I was forced to support one, two, three, four, five, 6,

[2:34:17] 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 charities who are nonprofits.

[2:34:24] Um, >> what was the point? What's the point of

[2:34:30] that? It seems to be a New Hampshire somewhat some towns do it, some don't.

[2:34:36] Like it all I can think of is this is a way maybe somebody said I am voting no

[2:34:45] on everything, but this is a way they can say but I'm going to give to

[2:34:49] charity. Well, you're not giving to charity. You're forcing me to give to

[2:34:53] charity if I want to give to charity. And you look at some of these numbers

[2:34:57] » an individual. You look at some of these numbers. They're small numbers. And when

[2:35:01] I when I first brought this up at a deliberative session, it was never met

[2:35:07] with warmness. People I feel like it's something that makes people feel good.

[2:35:15] At least, hey, all the, you know, the complaints they'll have about what the

[2:35:20] town does with the money, but at least I know this is going to a good cause.

[2:35:24] Well, give it yourself. 120 bucks the town's going to get

[2:35:29] » to this one organization here. >> Well, a lot a lot of times because I'

[2:35:34] I've been through this for decades obviously in different settings.

[2:35:37] Sometimes these are petition warrant articles individually, [snorts]

[2:35:41] » but even still the 15 or 20 people that send a petition warrant article get to

[2:35:46] submit it in front of the all the voters and some will vote it up and some will

[2:35:50] vote it down. A lot of times these numbers are driven by like home

[2:35:54] healthcare. They come into town and they don't

[2:35:59] decline to provide care for any new resident uh for want of pay for for want

[2:36:07] of reimbursement and typically they'll come to the budget committee or the

[2:36:12] fiscal committee or you guys and say you know we took care of 230 people in town

[2:36:17] » and this is this is how much it costs us uh because there's not adequate

[2:36:22] reimbursement. [snorts] So they ask for donations to offset the

[2:36:26] cost of taking care of US citizens. Yeah.

[2:36:28] » So every agency um they [clears throat] don't like to make up these numbers

[2:36:33] typically at least in my experience >> you say where did that number come from?

[2:36:37] How many how many new residents uh had to get services from Center for

[2:36:45] Violence Prevention or how many people in town needed meals on wheels and um

[2:36:51] and or 100 night shelter. How many homeless people came from New Ipsswitch

[2:36:55] and on and on and on. And so you get to make a decision about

[2:37:02] uh how you take care of your citizens >> and and you could do your you could just

[2:37:08] take that money and put in the welfare budget and you could and you could pay

[2:37:13] home healthcare directly. But but that's the concept and and either the board

[2:37:20] recommends the outside agencies whose money is used to take care of your

[2:37:25] citizens or they do a petition war article where

[2:37:29] 15 of your people's citizens say, "Hey, I want to fund home healthcare." Either

[2:37:34] way, it's going to end up on the ballot. Um

[2:37:37] so >> possibly. So we didn't have it on the

[2:37:40] ballot for two years. >> Okay. You didn't find any outside

[2:37:44] agencies? But the people, >> a number of people came up last year and

[2:37:50] said that they wanted it back on there. >> Yeah.

[2:37:54] » Oh, yeah. that's happened >> because we have citizens in town who are

[2:37:57] poor and they need services >> and they get it

[2:37:59] » and they're going to get it because statutoily, you know, you can do it

[2:38:03] through your welfare budget. >> No, but can do it through these agencies

[2:38:06] and maybe so if you take if you take >> um 100 night shelter on this one, $500.

[2:38:15] » Okay, >> that wouldn't even be one month's rent.

[2:38:19] » No, but you could probably stay at the shelter for 60 days.

[2:38:24] for that amount of money >> would. So are these are you telling me

[2:38:28] that these charities will no longer provide services for the town people in

[2:38:33] this town if the town >> if the town doesn't give $120 a year?

[2:38:38] » No, they will. >> And this is my point. And if and if

[2:38:41] somebody who's going to pay who's going to pay

[2:38:44] for the bricks these these here are nonprofits.

[2:38:49] » Well, that doesn't mean they don't have expenses and they don't need revenue.

[2:38:51] » Understood. Who do you think pays for nonprofit organizations?

[2:38:56] I hope it's not governments because now you're just a branch of you're like a

[2:39:01] you're not an NGO anymore. You're just a branch of the government.

[2:39:06] » There may not be the people of this, but there are other towns that are willing

[2:39:10] to >> Oh, absolutely.

[2:39:12] [cough and clears throat] No such tax voted for this $10,000

[2:39:18] a little bit more than my house. You could say the voters said all of my

[2:39:24] taxes will go towards donating to these charities. Now, if I

[2:39:30] like a charity, I don't ask you to pay for that. [clears throat]

[2:39:36] » And most of these charities, they run off of people's generosity.

[2:39:42] » He didn't. And so, >> which is why they're asking for the

[2:39:45] money. >> But, but what's happening here? Well,

[2:39:49] wait a minute. You did not have to to accept any one of those.

[2:39:54] » What do you mean? >> Just because they're on there, you could

[2:39:58] have just said, "I'm not I don't want to pay."

[2:40:01] » How? >> Well,

[2:40:03] » I have no choice. >> My neighbors

[2:40:06] » once it's in the budget. >> Once it's there, it's there. And and

[2:40:10] what happened last year was my neighbors told me,

[2:40:15] "Regardless of what you think about these charities, you are paying it.

[2:40:20] You're paying it this year." >> That's true.

[2:40:22] » No matter what you think one of these charities,

[2:40:24] » this comes back to your quasi Christian roots about who's going to care for the

[2:40:29] poor. >> There's a church in here.

[2:40:33] » Yeah. St. Paul, that's one of them. >> They get they get more than everybody.

[2:40:38] Maybe they do more than anybody. >> I don't know. I mean, but you know,

[2:40:42] honestly, that's part of the dialogue that you have with them. They come and

[2:40:45] they say, I want X. Well, >> we just have two things. A, the money

[2:40:51] can only be spent on on the Wford citizens. And B, I want to see the

[2:40:54] numbers. How many people did showed up? What what services did you provide? How

[2:40:59] long did they stay? Whatever it is. And then you get to validate. Well, if I had

[2:41:05] to have my welfare director pay the oil bill or something else, then I'm still

[2:41:11] paying it. But so those are all kind of community care decisions.

[2:41:16] » Yeah. because you're always going to have the poor and somebody's going to

[2:41:19] have to be taking care of them and somebody's going to have to be paying

[2:41:22] for these agencies to operate >> and and it has generally

[2:41:28] they don't survive off of NOIPS which is $120 annual donation they survive. So,

[2:41:36] [clears throat] if I like a charity, I may give I don't know

[2:41:41] maybe 600,000 dollars a year

[2:41:45] » because I want them to continue what they're doing. And I said that at the

[2:41:49] deliberative. I take it uh courtappointed special advocates. That

[2:41:53] one brought some fire. Um my wife and I went through that and we understand what

[2:41:58] they do. >> Okay. My wife is, she took on several

[2:42:04] cases for Cassa. We give them $500 a year.

[2:42:09] » Okay. >> And I said, "Why?

[2:42:13] » We the >> town in this one in this particular

[2:42:16] one." >> And I said, "You know, we're and someone

[2:42:20] said, you know, you're being a Scrooge. You're just so concerned about No, it's

[2:42:25] not about money being involved. But I understand there's

[2:42:29] people who don't appreciate something that happened

[2:42:36] with Cassa. That was something I looked up when I was in there are people who

[2:42:42] [clears throat] are very unhappy. >> Not not every story anywhere turns out

[2:42:45] well. >> Exactly. Exactly point. I'm not saying

[2:42:48] it's justified. >> I'm not saying it's a justified or a

[2:42:51] reasonable objection. It just is. It's reality with people.

[2:42:55] » Um and I told the the woman who was really angry at me for bringing it up.

[2:43:01] If you pass the hat around with the speech you just made, you would easily

[2:43:05] get more than $500. So why are we forcing everybody?

[2:43:12] It's just not right. And I I I looked through

[2:43:17] historically and I found one prominent politician who said who had a

[2:43:23] speech on it and said absolutely unethical for the government

[2:43:30] to use public money um in support of

[2:43:35] a charity. That was Davy Crockett. So that was the only one I saw. There

[2:43:43] was if you if you look back into the um founding fathers, you'll see

[2:43:49] » none of them were supportive of that idea.

[2:43:54] » Yeah, there was something >> but but you know, every single dollar in

[2:43:58] this budget >> goes to take care of the citizens of the

[2:44:03] town. >> Yep. one way or another, whether they're

[2:44:05] poor, whether they're sick, whether they're getting beaten up, whether they

[2:44:10] have an accident, whether they have a cardiac arrest, whether they need to get

[2:44:15] out of their home in the middle of a snowstorm. I mean, everything goes to

[2:44:19] care for New Hood citizens. What makes these any different? What makes them

[2:44:26] different is they're organizations that are outside of our

[2:44:32] » taking care of the citizens. >> Suppose suppose you didn't want to plow

[2:44:36] the roads and and and people couldn't get out of their home. Why why is it

[2:44:40] your responsibility to plow their road? >> This is that's a part of the operation

[2:44:44] of the town. This here is a donation to a charity of your choice. Now, I said,

[2:44:50] "Hey, how about if I convince the selectman, and I, this was in just a

[2:44:55] conversation with someone, and I named off some really overtly political, very

[2:45:02] clearly on this side of the whatever you want to

[2:45:06] call it, um, ideological war that our culture is in. How about we

[2:45:12] just give a list of them,

[2:45:17] » right?" >> Yeah.

[2:45:19] No, we don't want I I I'll limit it to the ones that have actually done work in

[2:45:24] our town. >> No,

[2:45:26] » all of these have >> Right. I'm saying my list I'll limit it

[2:45:30] to that. >> And the answer is still no.

[2:45:34] These have I don't know. I haven't looked at them recently, but when I

[2:45:38] first brought it up, that's what they were. Not all of them. There was three

[2:45:43] of them. and I brought it out at the deliberative session and the moderator

[2:45:47] put me right on the spot and he said would you like to make an amendment

[2:45:51] » and you said >> and I said yes

[2:45:53] » okay >> I would like to strike these three

[2:45:56] » okay >> and that's when that's when I felt uh

[2:46:01] » the dem the the the thrust of democracy over

[2:46:04] » yes so we had a very

[2:46:08] » I think I think it was a very civil discussion but it was basically me with

[2:46:14] » the audience [clears throat] resoundingly rejected.

[2:46:17] » No, not resoundingly. >> Okay.

[2:46:20] » Yeah. And it he actually called for a standing vote. The moderator did.

[2:46:24] » Okay. >> Yeah. But they also stood with me for

[2:46:27] putting those back on. [clears throat] >> Right. And my whole point is

[2:46:34] get to the bottom of it. It's at the barrel of a gun. You will donate to this

[2:46:39] charity. Now, if that charity becomes a part of our welfare office, then

[2:46:46] whatever. I mean, that's we're stuck with.

[2:46:48] » Okay. >> I I sign off on checks that the welfare

[2:46:52] department writes. And I understand that I have no choice.

[2:46:56] And who that check goes to has been arranged by the welfare officer in

[2:47:00] helping out whatever individual needed it. But the principle of this is what

[2:47:07] gets me. And yeah,

[2:47:10] » at the county, we've we've been funding some of these people literally for 40

[2:47:14] years. >> Um, but we've also have

[2:47:20] said no more outside agencies. We're funding enough. So,

[2:47:24] » yeah, >> we're not adding new people to the list,

[2:47:26] just just some of the legacy ones. >> And then last year, guess what? They

[2:47:31] added a new one. >> The [clears throat] government would

[2:47:33] never do that. >> Really? Not everybody. government would

[2:47:38] never say one thing and do another. >> There's other times where I've looked at

[2:47:42] the balance sheet of some of these nonprofits. I said, you know, they're

[2:47:45] sitting on $2.5 million. They don't need our money,

[2:47:48] » but they still get it. >> But they're helping

[2:47:51] » because it's helping state. >> Yeah, I know. This is why I say let's

[2:47:56] and we did. We didn't fund these things for a couple years. and our town

[2:48:01] administrator was not pleased with the board of selecting because she fielded

[2:48:07] the calls. >> Oh,

[2:48:09] » what kind of a Scrooge town you >> at the end of the day, the town

[2:48:12] administrator's job is to carry out the majority vote to the board.

[2:48:15] » Yeah. And I like what you said there at the deliberative session and that has

[2:48:20] been a really good educational thing for me is

[2:48:26] it them deliberative sessions and March vote really strongly illustrate why

[2:48:35] these people here were deathly afraid of a true democracy.

[2:48:41] Because it's mob rule. You come to the deliberative session, you get enough of

[2:48:46] your friends, you own the town. It's crazy

[2:48:50] » for sure. >> Yeah, it is wild.

[2:48:53] » That's why they didn't really form a democracy.

[2:48:58] » They formed a republic. >> Yep. Exactly. And it was because of

[2:49:02] that. And we get to witness it firsthand here.

[2:49:06] » Um, you know, with like the warrant,

[2:49:11] » it was And and the the reason they were not

[2:49:16] they were afraid of a true democracy and mob rule is because

[2:49:23] we see emotions can be stirred up and they they

[2:49:30] experience it there. >> Yeah. I mean all the tar and feathering

[2:49:34] and stuff a lot of these the founding fathers they weren't in favor of it but

[2:49:38] that's what happens. people's emotions get stoked up

[2:49:42] » and watch out. Yeah. So, that's been a really

[2:49:48] » Well, we don't have as many refs beating each other over the head with canes like

[2:49:52] we did 200 years ago >> or duels.

[2:49:54] » DS. Yeah. We're a little more >> Oh, feed them to the line. I

[2:49:57] » I would not say that we're more civilized.

[2:50:00] » I would say some of the customs may have changed.

[2:50:03] » That way you know where it's going. [clears throat]

[2:50:06] » You do. [laughter] They do that in Europe. I see them

[2:50:09] brawling over there. Have you seen them? >> British house.

[2:50:14] » Yeah, they'll start. >> There's a boot to watch.

[2:50:17] » I don't know. They're a little little up to on civil, but I will not take up any

[2:50:22] more time. That was my last thought on the warrant and I'll ask one last call.

[2:50:26] » I had this is about the fourth time, if not more.

[2:50:30] » What >> that I've listened to to this whole

[2:50:32] » Yeah. Yeah. And you still disagree. You you enjoy the fact that I have a gun

[2:50:38] pointed to my head telling me to donate to these charities.

[2:50:41] » Yeah, but they have >> you say

[2:50:44] for me for 35 years. It's just >> Ron said, "Please, can you wind it up

[2:50:50] already?" You're talking in circles. If anyone has anything

Board of Selectmen Meeting 08 31 2056

Transcript