[3:47] Thank you very much. Welcome to the council meeting Monday, July 27th, 2026.

[3:53] Could everybody please rise for the singing of O Canada and could you please

[3:56] remain standing for a moment of silent contemplation? Thank you.

[5:41] Thank you. Please be seated.

[5:50] At the town of Nuda comes, we acknowledge that we're on the treaty

[5:53] lands and traditional territory of the Nishanabi peoples, specifically the

[5:58] Ojiu, Chipawa, Odawa, and Pawatami peoples, collectively known as the Three

[6:03] Fires Confederacy. This land is now home to many diverse First Nations, Inuit,

[6:08] and Miti peoples. New Dumps is covered by the Lake Simco

[6:11] Navasaga Treaty number 18 signed on October 17th, 1818 with the Chipoa

[6:17] Nation. We acknowledge that we're all treaty people and accept our

[6:20] responsibility to honor all our relations and move forward in the spirit

[6:23] of reconciliation and respect. Thank you. So, I'm going to go to awards and

[6:28] recognitions, please. Councelor Bis. >> Uh, thank you, worship. Um, once again,

[6:34] I'd like to congratulate uh our senior of the year, Donna Jeb. She's in the

[6:40] audience again tonight uh for being awarded the Adelaide Hunter Hoodless

[6:44] Canadian Woman of the Year for her outstanding leadership, inspiration to

[6:48] others, and support to the community both locally, nationally, and

[6:53] internationally. Congratulations, Donna. Well done again.

[7:03] No, thank you very much. And I just like to acknowledge um everybody knows, but

[7:07] Donna was a counselor and the former deputy mayor of the town of New

[7:10] Thompson, too. So, thank you for all those years of dedication. Donna, and it

[7:15] was actually kind of nice, Donna, Rick Mill, myself, and Mark Bis from the

[7:19] former council actually got to see each other tonight. Did you want to say why?

[7:27] » Uh, thank you, worship. Um, so for the people at home, um, before council met,

[7:32] uh, met this evening, um, we had the honor of doing a dedication for the JJ

[7:37] Paul Whiteside Executive Boardroom. We invited, uh, Mr. Paul Whiteside's family

[7:42] to come, friends, neighbors, former counselors, the mayors, etc. and and we

[7:48] celebrated uh a life well-lived, a man who served our community uh faithfully

[7:54] for many many years and a person and a family that um that we can never forget

[7:59] and it's his name has been immortalized on his executive boardroom. So, thank

[8:03] you worship for helping us to to put that together.

[8:06] » Oh, thank you councelor Bis. Councelor Masters, please.

[8:11] » Thank you worship. We have a couple announcements. Um the first announcement

[8:15] is I'd just like to say I've just come back from New Brunswick where um I was

[8:20] with my um my grandson who's playing in the Canadian National Ball Hockey

[8:26] Championships and uh with TNT which is one of the Canada's number one of North

[8:33] America's largest groups in ball hockey and uh I don't have all the final

[8:38] numbers with me but um our teams did exceedingly well I I think winning gold,

[8:44] silver, bronze and uh at all levels and um just very proud of uh what TNT um put

[8:51] forward uh in these championships. Um I think there's a photo up there

[8:57] somewhere.

[9:01] Managed to take a photo there.

[9:07] Let me

[9:11] while I find that I'll go into the next one. Um um blood donors. Um just a note,

[9:18] I'm sure you've seen it on the TV and um and other media that we're really in

[9:24] need of blood >> [clears throat]

[9:26] » um this time of year. Um especially now um Blood Canada is looking u for uh for

[9:34] extra help in um and bringing their supplies back up to where they should

[9:39] be. And um so with that in mind, we have two clinics coming up. One is at the AMA

[9:46] on uh Thursday, July the 30th, and the other one is a Tottenham Community

[9:51] Fitness Center on Saturday, September the 19th. Um, please go uh and check uh

[9:58] for blood.ca because the some of the times are changing now. They're trying

[10:02] to get more people in throughout the day. So, you know, it may be instead of

[10:06] 1 to uh you know, 9 to1, it might be uh 10 to 2 or something like this. So,

[10:11] please check for your local um for the local times for your own for your own

[10:16] clinics. Um, and that photo was up there was a quick photo I took of some of the

[10:21] sake. >> Thank you very much.

[10:24] » And the boys celebrating. >> Thank you very much, councelor Masters.

[10:27] Councelor Rapin, please

[10:32] » have a look at the photo. Everybody [snorts]

[10:36] » All right. Uh, thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. over uh the last four years I've

[10:42] had the the privilege to participate in a lot of things and um I've been very

[10:47] envious of um Tottenham and uh this year beaten in terms of their cash draws that

[10:54] they've been running uh the Tottenham one I I was there and I was volunteering

[10:57] at it and people were coming in and saying hi to their neighbors from 20

[11:01] years ago. They haven't lived in the community for 20 years, but they could

[11:04] go to the cash drawer, the car drawer, whatever it was, and they'd run into

[11:07] each other. And and I I I envied that. And I was wondering

[11:12] how can we do that in Alist? And I and I know for a fact that we used to we used

[11:16] to have a car draw and we also had Relay for Life, where we would see our old

[11:20] neighbors and and our community together and we'd have an opportunity. Um, but

[11:24] with that in mind, I've created the tragically hip day, which is August

[11:28] 22nd. And forgive me for telling you about it in July, but we don't have

[11:32] council until after the tragically hip day. So, I thought I'd tell you now. Um,

[11:36] Tragically Hips uh con last concert they ever performed in Kingston was 10 years

[11:40] ago, August 22nd. And uh CBC will be releasing the the concert uh that night

[11:47] at 7:00. We will be having a big screen in the band shell and we'll be playing

[11:51] that concert for anyone who wants to come for free to um to watch it. And

[11:55] leading into that, we've got six or seven bands that will also be playing

[11:58] their own songs as well as hip songs. And I'm sure for those of you that are

[12:02] going, "Big deal, I don't like the hip." Well, we've got Cora Dairy. So, uh, that

[12:07] that might that might get you there. Uh, they'll they'll be serving out the

[12:11] tragically chipped ice cream flavor, which is really hard to get. Uh, so

[12:16] anyway, hope to see you all there. It should be a lot of fun. Uh, try and walk

[12:19] or bike to it. Please don't don't drive. Could be kind of busy. Thank you.

[12:25] » No, thank you, Councelor Rapin. And you're right. Ice cream brings everybody

[12:28] to events. Yeah. No, it certainly does. Any more from members of council? Hey, I

[12:34] just want to take this opportunity to give a happy 90th birthday shout out to

[12:38] former two-time mayor in two different municipalities,

[12:42] longtime counselor here, very involved in the community, approximately 30 years

[12:46] of a municipal service that she has dedicated, Francis Sainsbury. And I

[12:51] always like to call her Francis because she gives me that look. So anyhow, if

[12:55] you're watching, Francis, on behalf of the entire council, happy 90th birthday.

[12:59] Thank you. >> Okay, Madam Clerk, I don't see anything

[13:03] else on my screen, so I'm going to go to the clerk to identify any items to add

[13:06] or delete to the agenda, please. Madam clerk,

[13:09] » thank you. Your worship, there are no items to add or delete this evening.

[13:12] » Thank you. So, we have a motion to be resolved to the agenda for the council

[13:16] meeting held on July 27th, 2026. be confirmed as circulated. Councelor Best,

[13:22] thank you. Councelor Masters, thank you. All those in favor? That's carried.

[13:26] Thank you. Disclosure of peunary interest. Are there any members of

[13:29] council have a disclosure of pecunary interest?

[13:34] Councelor Gabbert, please. >> Thank you, your worship. Uh R-3, my

[13:38] spouse is an employee at Honda of Canada.

[13:41] » Thank you, Councelor Gabbert.

[13:46] Okay, I'm not seeing any other. So, we need a motion now. Adoption of council

[13:50] minutes be resolved that the minutes of the council meeting dated July 13th,

[13:54] 2026 be adopted as circulated. Deputy mayor, would you move that please? Thank

[13:57] you. Uh, councelor Harrison McIntyre, you're here virtually. Would you second

[14:02] that? Thank you. All those in favor? And that's carried.

[14:07] Thank you. So, I can go to the clerk now identify

[14:11] items for separate discussion and the reason thereof, please, madam clerk.

[14:15] » Thank you, your worship. Uh this evening we just have item R3 as there is a

[14:19] disclosure of pecunary interest. Uh the follow-up report Canada North vehicles

[14:24] initiative costs resources allocated and measurable outcomes. Thank you.

[14:28] » Thank you. I'm going to go to council now to identify items for separate

[14:31] discussion. Councelor Masters please

[14:35] R-3 and CW1-2. You worship.

[14:47] I'm going to come back to this in a moment to see if there's any other

[14:50] members of council. Okay, I'm not seeing any in regards to CW-2.

[14:57] » I'll hand it over to you, clerk. >> Thank you, your worship. Um, as it would

[15:02] follow the same procedure as it did at committee, you would need a twothirds

[15:05] vote to even reconsider the motion. Then the motion would be on the floor and you

[15:09] would need a majority vote to pass. >> Okay. So, as per the clerk's

[15:14] instructions, require a majority of councel to allow this on the floor.

[15:17] Correct. Twothirds. >> Yeah. First, we need the twothirds vote

[15:21] to to reconsider the motion. Then you would need to reconsider the motion.

[15:26] » So, all those in favor of reconsidering the motion, put your hands up, please.

[15:31] » Okay. Councelor Rapens declared a pecunior interest. All those in favor of

[15:34] reconsidering the motion, put your hands up.

[15:38] Okay, that does not pass. Councelor Masters, as per our procedural bylaw, it

[15:42] will not be pulled on tonight's agenda meeting. Thank you.

[15:46] So, we have a motion be resolved item CW Sorry, can someone let Councelor Rapid

[15:50] Oh, there he is. Be resolved at that item CW1 to CW5 and the committee of the

[15:54] whole meeting report dated July 13, 2026,

[15:58] including additional information memorandums with the exception of those

[16:01] items identified for separate discussion be approved and the recommendations

[16:05] therein be adopted. and further that communication items and any other items

[16:09] listed on the council meeting agenda dated July 27th 2026

[16:13] with the exception of those items identified for separate discussion to be

[16:16] received and or adopted. Uh councelor Rapin, would you move that please? Thank

[16:19] you. Councelor Gabrick, would you second that? Thank you.

[16:23] Deputations. Sorry. All those in favor. Thank you. Deputations requiring

[16:28] statutory or public meetings. I don't have any. Deputations relating to new

[16:33] matters. There's none on the docket. So, we're going to go to R-3

[16:40] that was pulled by councelor Gabri for canary interest.

[16:45] So, I have a motion. It's uh be resolved of report number GI2026-07

[16:51] regarding the Canada North Vehicles Initiative follow-up costs, resources

[16:56] allocated, and measurable outcomes be received. Um, councelor Cox, would you

[17:00] move that? Thank you. Councelor Bis, would you second that? Thank you. All

[17:03] those in favor? That's carried. Thank you. Thank you, councel.

[17:12] » Okay, madam clerk, I'm going to move on to the bylaws, please.

[17:20] » Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Councilor Masters Rdash.

[17:27] » It's a comment I'd like to pass on to staff regarding Canada North

[17:32] Association. I think this is a at this economic time for Ontario and Canada. I

[17:37] think this is a great um effort that's put forward by everybody. I just want to

[17:41] suggest make a recommendation that Canada North Association

[17:46] set up communications for information with JAMAMAR the Japanese automobile

[17:50] association. Jammer's communicators are more broad and include much of Japan's

[17:55] auto industry from a political general industry overview and group directors

[18:00] affecting the globe including Canada. So I think there's um more connections that

[18:05] we can make by using the JAMAMA group which is the group that uh sets the pace

[18:10] for the auto industry in Japan. Thank you.

[18:14] » Thank you for those comments. So it was moved by councelor Cox, seconded by

[18:17] councelor Bis. All those in favor that's carried. Thank you. Going to move on to

[18:22] the bylaws now. Please madam clerk. So, we have a motion be resolved that the

[18:26] following bylaws be read a first, second, and third time, and enacted.

[18:30] Bylaw 2026-067, bylaw 2026-068.

[18:37] Councelor Masters, would you move that? >> Thank you. Councelor Ha McIntyre, will

[18:41] you second that? Thank you. All those in favor? That's carried. Thank you,

[18:45] councel. General information announcements. I don't have any. We have

[18:50] no public notices. So we have the confirming bylaw be it

[18:54] resolved that bylaw 2026-069 to confirm the proceeding of council at

[18:59] its meeting on July 27th 2026 be read at first second and third time enacted

[19:04] deputy mayor would you move that thank you councelor Rapin will you second that

[19:07] thank you all those in favor that's carried thank you so we have adjournment

[19:12] be resolved with the meeting adjourn at 6:16 please councelor Gabri would you

[19:17] move that thank you councelor Cox thank you all those in favor that's carried

[19:21] thank you councel Madam Clerk, I'm going to go right into

[19:24] the committee meeting.

[19:36] So, we're going to do the confirmation of agenda. We have a recommendation that

[19:40] the agenda for the committee of the whole meeting held on July 27th, 2026 be

[19:43] confirmed as circulated. Councelor Bis, thank you. Councelor Masters, you'll

[19:47] second that. Thank you. All those in favor? That's carried. Thank you. Any

[19:52] disclosures of pecuniary interest please?

[19:55] » Council Rapid

[20:00] on CW42 of the suggestions is property that

[20:04] backs onto my onto my property. >> Thank you, Councelor Gabri.

[20:11] » Thank you, your worship. Um I'm I'm declaring on the same uh number as well

[20:15] for the uh same reason stated before. Thank you.

[20:19] » Okay. CW42, you're declaring one. Thank you.

[20:25] Okay. Thank you. So, I'm gonna go to the clerk now.

[20:29] » Oh, you're not. >> Thank you.

[20:31] » Oh, you're already on. >> Yeah. I don't know how that happened.

[20:34] Um, I'd like you to declare on CW51, accessible parking and traffic by

[20:39] updates. I live on the 13th line. >> Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, councelor

[20:44] Bus.

[20:53] Okay. So,

[20:59] just [clears throat] one second here. So, madam clerk, can you lift us off the

[21:04] items for separate discussion and the reason they're up, please? Because I

[21:06] have just want to make sure I've captured them all.

[21:10] » Thank you, your worship. Uh this evening we have item CW42 as there is a

[21:15] disclosure of pecunary interest proposed acquisition of environmental protection

[21:19] lands for habitat compensation and CW51 also a disclosure of pecunary interest

[21:24] on accessible parking and traffic bylaw updates.

[21:27] » Okay. Thank you madam clerk. So those three items have been pulled for

[21:30] pecunary interest but will still come up. So I'm going to go to council now to

[21:34] identify items for separate discussion please. Councelor Rapen

[21:38] » CW52 please.

[21:46] Thank you, Councelor Masters. CW53, you worship. Thank you.

[21:52] » Thank you, Councelor Gabbert, please. >> Thank you. Uh CW11, please.

[22:04] » Thank you. So, I'm going to go to the members of

[22:07] the public now. Are there any members of the public? if they would like to speak

[22:10] to any of the items on the agenda, please.

[22:14] » Yes, sir. Which item, sir?

[22:18] » Okay. And your name, please, sir? Uh, you don't have to come right now. I'll I

[22:21] just make a note of it.

[22:29] » Thank you. Any other members of the public?

[22:32] Okay. I'm not seeing any. So, I'm going to the clerk to summarize all items

[22:37] identified for separate discussion, please.

[22:40] Thank you, your worship. Item CW11, from the ground, land for non-market housing.

[22:45] A written motion from councelor Harrison McIntyre. Uh CW42,

[22:50] proposed acquisition of environmental protection lands for habitat

[22:53] compensation as there is a disclosure of pecunary interest. CW51, accessible

[22:58] parking and traffic bylaw updates as there is a disclosure of pecunary

[23:02] interest. CW52 Church Street North Road and Bridge

[23:07] improvements update to item C-2 Council May 25th, 2026. Petition regarding

[23:12] Church Street North bike lanes and sidewalk and CW53

[23:17] Beaten Community Center redevelopment project refinements and design

[23:21] direction. Thank you. >> Thank you, Madam Clerk.

[23:28] So we have a recommendation that all the items not identified for separate

[23:31] discussion be received and the recommendations therein be recommended

[23:34] to council for adoption. Councelor Harrison McIntyre, will you move that

[23:38] please? Thank you. Deputy mayor, will you second that please? Thank you. All

[23:41] those in favor? That's carried. Thank you very much.

[23:47] So the first item was CW1 one from the ground land for non-market

[23:53] housing. Councelor, it's a written motion, I believe,

[23:59] from councelor Harrison McIntyre. You pulled that item. Councelor Gabbert,

[24:03] would you like to speak, please? Thank you.

[24:06] » Thank you, your worship. I just had a quick question. I know that the

[24:08] information will come back to council. um including the property's value to our

[24:12] taxpayers, but I'm just wondering from staff what types of property could fall

[24:17] under non-market housing and could this include supportive housing or emergency

[24:22] uh shelters or is the intent strictly affordable housing for the long term?

[24:29] » I will look to um I guess director Saget, would you answer that or GM

[24:35] Hoppy, do you want me to How would you What would you prefer?

[24:40] your worship. Um I staff have I've just received this so I don't think we um we

[24:45] have all the information before us but uh I don't know if councelor Harrison

[24:48] McIntyre has anything to add to the conversation at this point.

[24:52] » Okay. All right. So duly noted that you are requiring more information. So if

[24:58] that is that okay council camera. Thank you. So we have item CW1-1

[25:03] from the ground land for non-market housing. Everyone has read the motion.

[25:06] Do you require it to be read again? I'm not seeing that. So, councelor

[25:10] Harrison McIntyre, would you move that? Thank you, Councelor Gabrick. Sure.

[25:15] Thank you. All those in favor? It's carried. Thank you, councel.

[25:20] We're going to move on to CW41.

[25:25] And we have two conflicts pulled on CW41.

[25:30] And uh that was by councelor Rapen and councelor Gabri

[25:34] or sorry 42. I mean, yeah, 42. And we also Okay, so just let me get

[25:41] there, please.

[25:50] » So this is a proposed acquisition of environmental protection lands for

[25:54] habitat compensation. Councelor Cox.

[26:00] » Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Three you to staff. Um, I see through the

[26:04] compensation land we're compensating for 86 hectare build through Honda. Um, I

[26:10] didn't see a size listed for option one. Option two was around 28 hectares with

[26:17] 20 of that being able to be environmentally protected. Can I get the

[26:21] sizing for option one, please?

[26:26] » Thank you. I'll go over to Director Saget, please.

[26:30] » Thank you, your worship. I'm going to ask uh um

[26:35] Caitlyn Cosg Gro or um manager of development to assist in that regard.

[26:40] She was um um instrumental in pulling this report together. So hopefully she's

[26:45] got that detail for us. >> Thank you. Welcome manager Cosgrove.

[26:51] » And through you to councelor Cox. Uh the compensation lands that we are looking

[26:56] for are to account for habitat. So there's a particular habitat size that

[26:59] we're looking for. It's just under 14 acres of habitat lands for compensation.

[27:05] » Okay. >> Supplementary if I could through you,

[27:08] Mr. Mayor. >> Thank you.

[27:10] » Um I know that the M ZO lands are are being used for this and the um

[27:15] environmental component that's unable to be built on. Do we know offhand if those

[27:19] M zo lands will require a compensation component for being built on? And if so,

[27:25] how does that relate or fit into um these compensation properties being used

[27:29] for Honda >> manager?

[27:33] » Through you, Mr. Mayor, to councelor Cox. The compensation, there would be no

[27:37] monetary compensation of lands. These lands were scheduled to come to the town

[27:42] through a plan of subdivision process. So, there's no exchange of money other

[27:47] than the $1 exchange that occurs with, you know, um the exchange of property.

[27:54] » Okay. Sorry, just supplementary. Maybe I I probably wasn't clear with my

[27:57] question. So, when the M ZO lands are built on, will there be a compensation

[28:01] component for Flat to pay for their M ZO property being built on? Did they do an

[28:07] environmental impact study that may be attributed to breeding bird habitat or

[28:12] anything? So, is or is that something that they've already established is not

[28:18] needed because the MTO property? I just want to make sure that uh if there's any

[28:23] compensation land required for Flat to provide that this they're maybe not

[28:27] doubling up on the Honda property. >> Manager

[28:31] » through you mayor to councelor Cox. Uh to the best of my knowledge there has

[28:35] not been any environmental study completed for the flat uh plan of

[28:40] subdivision as it was brought forward through a minister's zoning order. So

[28:44] that was not a requirement of the process as the province stepped in and

[28:48] approved that plan of subdivision. >> Sorry, just one more supplementary just

[28:53] so we can make sure that when that M Zo I guess plan of subdivision comes

[28:58] forward. If there is a compensation component, I'd like to make sure that

[29:02] we're not going to be doubling up on that environmentally sensitive and

[29:05] compensation land that there will be a requirement probably for additional

[29:09] lands to be added for that component.

[29:14] Sorry, I sorry. Go ahead, man. >> Thank you, Mayor Norcross. You councelor

[29:20] Cox, your comments are noted. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. So, we have CW-4

[29:25] Strategic Services. It's proposed acquisition of environmental protection

[29:29] lands for habitat compensation. Councelor Bis, would you Thank you,

[29:33] Councelor Masters. Thank you. All those in favor? That's carried. Thank you.

[29:37] Councelor Gabric and Councelor Rapen, you're back in, please.

[29:44] The next one is CW51. It's accessible parking and traffic bylaw updates.

[29:49] Councelor Bis has declared a conflict of interest on that. Thank you, Council

[29:52] Bess. Any comments or questions? Okay, I'm not seeing any.

[30:01] So, CW51 accessible parking traffic bylaw updates and there's a

[30:05] recommendation that report number-2026-15

[30:09] be received. Um, everyone's has the motion. Is there a requirement to read

[30:14] it? Okay, I'm not seeing that. All those in favor? Well, going to have a mover in

[30:19] second or so. Deputy mayor and councelor uh councelor Rappen. All those in favor?

[30:25] And that's carried. Thank you. Councelor Bis, you're back in, please, sir. Okay,

[30:30] we're going to move to CW52. We do have uh that was pulled by councelor Rapen,

[30:34] but we do have a member of the audience, Brent, that would like to speak. Would

[30:37] you like to come up now, sir?

[30:43] Welcome.

[30:49] » Good evening and thank you for listening to uh tonight. I can only speak for

[30:53] myself and my wife, but I'm sure that I speak for many Church Street North

[30:56] residents. To say that hearing of the plan to proceed with the original plan

[31:01] was disappointing would be a gross understatement. A number of Church

[31:06] Street residents shared their thoughts, concerns, and

[31:11] reasons as to why the original plan is both poor and not needed. And it is

[31:15] clear that you, the council and incumbent mayor, did not take us

[31:20] seriously. To start with, I believe that before any final decisions are made, the

[31:25] secondary plans placed at the very bottom of your latest

[31:29] information release, one which included no bike lanes and the other having no

[31:34] sidewalk and bike lanes, be revisited and implemented. Both these options save

[31:41] money, acknowledge that there is no need for a sidewalk on the east side or bike

[31:46] lanes, and demonstrate that the needs of voting residents actually matter.

[31:52] It is odd to me that during the 20 May 25th meeting, one counselor recommended

[31:56] that no bike lanes be put in and another counselor brought up great points such

[32:01] as the subdivision on the north end has been built and as such the population is

[32:06] what it is and the volume of traffic is what it is. No in-depth traffic surveys

[32:12] were done warranting the sidewalk or bike lanes. Two elected counselors

[32:16] expressed clear reasons as to why the original plan should not proceed and yet

[32:21] here we are. So who then has the voice, the real voice or power? Why don't the

[32:28] voices of counselors acting on behalf of Worn W citizens not count? Our voices

[32:34] matter. Our [clears throat] concerns are real. But what we have seen is that they

[32:39] don't. They don't matter at all. How can they

[32:43] if input from elected officials don't? Councilors and all elected officials

[32:48] have the duty and responsibility not just to listen to constituents but to

[32:53] act on their behalf. Apparently not in this case. Furthermore, during the May

[32:58] 25th meeting, only one counselor seemed to know anything of substance about the

[33:03] plan. He brought up great points, excellent questions to the engineer,

[33:07] spoke with insight and demonstrated a thorough understanding of the plan, its

[33:11] issues and faults therein. All of our counselors remain silent,

[33:17] seemingly almost afraid to speak. Very few demonstrated any real understanding

[33:22] of the issue or were simply not willing to share their thoughts or do not care

[33:27] enough. Not good enough. While reading the latest release of

[33:33] information about how you would like to proceed, it was hard not to notice how

[33:38] hard you worked to neutralize all of the elements you did so poorly throughout

[33:43] this process. You identified most of them, i.e. the doorners, and then had

[33:48] the gall to suggest that the door knockers were handed out to give

[33:51] residents more time.

[33:55] You brought up the cost and savings associated with putting in sidewalks or

[33:59] not putting in sidewalks and then marginalized them and made it sound as

[34:03] if these cost-saving measures for completely unneeded infrastructure are

[34:07] wrong and would negatively impact us. It was quite a read complete with all the

[34:13] necessary little coverups. Change happens. Yeah. But to disrupt lives,

[34:18] take away property, and conduct yourselves in ways which place

[34:22] significant doubts in our democratic system is deeply disturbing and not the

[34:27] type of change we as voting citizens need at a time when we all need to do

[34:32] better. You have not. Change happens yet. But the changes to our properties,

[34:38] loss of parking, and unneeded bike lanes, which I might add the ward one

[34:42] counselor even acknowledged was unnecessary.

[34:45] when he finally decided to speak do not need to happen. I believe even your

[34:50] lawyers said this that the original plan does not need to

[34:54] go ahead as planned and yet again here we are. The people who vote for you or

[35:00] even let you put a sign in their front yard have been cast aside and for what?

[35:05] There must be reasons as transparency throughout this process has not been the

[35:10] strong suit and we the voting public are not privy to the behind-the-scenes

[35:14] goings on. It doesn't take much of an imagination

[35:18] to come up with some disturbing and sad reasons why these decisions have been

[35:21] made. All of which by the way do not meet the needs of the constituents in

[35:25] this area or the town. Especially given the fact the fact that the proposed

[35:30] sidewalks and bike lanes again are not needed.

[35:34] Town council, by choosing not to put in unnecessary sidewalk and bike lanes, you

[35:40] a save money, which could be better spent

[35:44] on other needed projects such as a new beaten arena, or as I just received a

[35:48] text from uh Nelson Street West, use taxpayer dollars appropriately to

[35:52] rebuild and fix a bridge in desperate need of repair, upgrade aging water and

[35:57] sewer infrastructure, and allow voting citizens to keep their

[36:02] property in significantly uh decrease disruption to our everyday

[36:06] lives. We may be a small number of people in a growing town, but our needs,

[36:12] concerns, and beliefs matter. So far, that has not been the case.

[36:19] Town council, act and make decisions not based on pressures from people who do

[36:25] not know our town, its needs, concerns, or people. act and make decisions not

[36:31] based on companies or people who are looking out for themselves and their

[36:35] financial or political gains. Instead, council act and make decisions on behalf

[36:42] of the people who voted for you so that you can sit in the chairs you currently

[36:47] occupy. Anything less is unacceptable. Church Street North does not need a

[36:53] sidewalk on the east side or bike lanes. do right

[36:59] by us and make the s necessary adjustments to this plan. Thank you.

[37:08] Thank you very much. That was the only gentleman I had uh

[37:15] asking to speak about the church street north. So, councelor Rapid.

[37:22] » Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. Uh, thank you Brent for your presentation.

[37:29] Getting used to seeing you every couple months. So hopefully it'll be for

[37:34] something else the next time. Let's see if we can solve this. Um, the way

[37:39] this is this is a a four-year learning curve for me as well. When I see stuff

[37:44] and I think, "Oh, that doesn't seem like the right way." I'll I'll ask staff.

[37:48] They'll explain it. And sometimes I do see it their way, and sometimes I still

[37:52] don't see it the right way. and I still just see it my way and uh and then

[37:57] that's when I discuss with others and uh eventually come up with a decision. So

[38:04] for me just today I biked Church Street North six times, not to bike it to to

[38:11] show people I'm on it, but to get to the pool, to get to downtown, to get to the

[38:15] things I I use it quite a bit. Um I also bike a few other spots quite a bit now.

[38:21] Uh, forgive me for the preamble. One of the

[38:25] there's three spots I really like biking in our town. Uh, King Street,

[38:31] uh, King Street North going to Barntormers, not because of Barntormers,

[38:35] but just going along that stretch. Albert Street and part of the ag

[38:43] new Tcumpa town line where they've got a one and a half to 2 meter paved shoulder

[38:48] with a a white line along it and it gives me lots of it's not declared a

[38:52] bike lane. It's just it just narrows the road to sort of induce traffic calming I

[38:58] think and it gives me some space to bike. Uh King Street you'll see it

[39:03] Albert Street's a little wider. It's it's much wider. I'm not 100% sure of

[39:07] it. You're still allowed to park on those roads, but it gives you a feeling

[39:11] that you can bike safely and I understand. I' I've been down Church

[39:15] Street quite a bit and there's some days there's a pool party happening and

[39:18] there's like five or six cars parked on the road and I understand. I'm assuming

[39:21] it's a pool party. Never been invited, but uh [laughter]

[39:25] but um there there's those things. So, I understand those concerns. Um so, I

[39:32] recognize that. So, the the first thing I'm going to recommend to council is

[39:36] that um the we don't put in official bike lanes,

[39:42] but we create these um these paved shoulders with the white lines. There

[39:46] are some other options. I was showed some other options where there's these

[39:49] uh white triangles emanating out of the the curb that just sort of makes traffic

[39:54] go a little bit further away from the curb. It doesn't really mean anything, I

[39:57] don't think, but it just but it allows some space for bikers. So, it's not an

[40:01] official bike lane and yes, you can park in it. Um, so I'm going to be recommend

[40:06] recommending that and I've sent a um an attempt at a mo an amendment or or

[40:12] whatever for that. The next thing is um I've been uh I've had a few

[40:19] conversations about the sidewalk on the east side and and I've talked to the

[40:24] residents as well about it and I've made this suggestion. This shouldn't come in

[40:28] as any surprise, but I'm going to be recommending that the the sidewalk on

[40:32] the east side be a curbside so that way there's no boulevard that

[40:36] leads to the sidewalk so that your driveway will be longer. Now, staff has

[40:41] told me that this is harder to maintain. And I fully understand that because when

[40:45] the snow plow when the the sidewalk plow goes by and cleans it, the snow plow

[40:50] will always go by right after and put snow back on. I understand that. Um,

[40:55] let's say that happens 10 times a year. I'm okay with that because we will have

[41:01] a crosswalk at the bottom at Evans to take us across to the west side. So on

[41:05] the days where that sidewalk doesn't work because of that clearing aspect of

[41:10] it, they can go across the street and get safely up on the west side as well.

[41:16] Um, so those are the two I don't know if are they considered amendments or uh so

[41:24] uh I think this is sort proposed sidewalk extending from or along the

[41:28] east side of the curb of Church Street and uh traffic calming white lines known

[41:32] as urban shoulder uh instead of bike lanes. I I I welcome any questions from

[41:39] staff or from from council but council can also ask staff what they think.

[41:43] That's fine. >> Thank you.

[41:44] » You're welcome. So, I'm just going to look to the clerk. Do you have

[41:47] clarification of it? Are you able to read it out just so white so we know

[41:52] what you have, please? >> Yep. Thank you, your worship. Um would

[41:58] be that report 2026-16 be received and further that council

[42:03] direct staff to proceed with the church street north road and bridge

[42:06] improvements uh substantially designed including sidewalk. No. Substantially

[42:11] designed, including um as outlined in report ENG 2026-16 as amended to include

[42:18] curb sidewalks along the east side of Church Street North between Evans Road

[42:23] and Hussy Street from the current scope of work. and further that council direct

[42:28] staff to remove the proposed bike lanes along Church Street North and replace

[42:31] them with trafficcoming white lines known as urban shoulder um from this

[42:36] project scope and maintain the on street parking north of Fletcher Crescent

[42:41] subject to minor updates in keeping with the recommendations of the

[42:44] transportation needs study. >> Okay, thank you councelor Rapen

[42:48] captures. Okay, thank you. Any comments or questions in regards to the

[42:52] amendment? So, the clerk has just read the

[42:56] amendment. Oh, sorry, Councelor Bess. >> Uh, thank you, worship. Um,

[43:01] [clears throat] I don't have any questions per se to the the amendment. I

[43:04] just want to highlight and I think um Mr. Smile actually pointed to it uh in

[43:09] his comments. I turn people to to page four of 11. And I think this is really

[43:14] important for us as a council. It's a precedent setting moment because as we

[43:18] move forward, I think we've struggled townwide with sidewalks and with bike

[43:24] lanes. We've seen a lot of different all the different communities have have

[43:29] resisted this. And I think this is an important moment for us to to consider.

[43:33] And I'll just read a little bit. Uh you know, council, this was during the the

[43:37] last session we had. We requested clarification regarding the town's legal

[43:41] obligation to install sidewalks and bicycle lanes as part of the Church

[43:45] Street North reconstruction project. And I thank staff for going to the town

[43:49] solicitor who advised that the official plan in the multimmoal transportation

[43:54] master plan is a council adopted policy document that guides the planning and

[43:59] design of transportation infrastructure projects. Um while staff are expected to

[44:04] implement council approved policies, council retains the authority in its

[44:09] legislative capacity to amend or deviate from those policies through a subsequent

[44:15] decision, which means that we not we're not beholden to it. The town solicitor

[44:20] further advised that there is no known provincial requirement mandating the

[44:24] installation of sidewalks or bicycle lanes. In this context, decisions

[44:28] regarding the provision of sidewalks, bicycle lanes, and similar

[44:31] transportation facilities are policy decisions of council and in themselves

[44:35] do not create liability for the town. Municipal liability generally arises

[44:39] from the negligent implementation of construction operation or maintenance of

[44:43] infrastructure rather than from council's policy decisions respecting

[44:47] the hype, sorry, the type of infrastructure be to be provided. As

[44:51] such, while the proposed sidewalks and bus lanes are consistent with the

[44:54] official plan, the town's engineering standards, and the multimodal

[44:57] transportation master plan, we may choose to amend the proposed design and

[45:02] associated policy direction through this its decision on this matter. So I mean I

[45:07] I I understand the compromise that councelor Rapen is making but I think

[45:11] it's also important for all of us as a learning as as a moment of learning to

[45:16] understand that it is up to council for us to make these decisions that there

[45:20] would be there's no one else forcing us to create bike lanes or there is no um

[45:27] uh there is no polit provincial requirement mandating these for us. So

[45:31] I'm glad that staff pointed that out so we can if this comes to us in other

[45:36] iterations we'll be able to understand that going forward.

[45:42] » Thank you uh councelor Masters please. >> Uh thank you worship and u I agree with

[45:49] councel bis um that um you know we have policies and guidelines and some of them

[45:55] are legal. you know, if there's a safety issue involved and somebody gets hurt or

[46:00] god forbid even lose their life, then we could be at a very lialous position. Um,

[46:06] I empathize with Mr. um, Snell's um, issue he has there. I had the same issue

[46:12] when I lived in Beaton in the very early days. They wanted to put a a sidewalk

[46:17] down the front of my house, which they did. But any what um my what I'd like to

[46:21] say is that um I did go to staff originally when this first came forward

[46:27] and the the um the inference I got was that uh this is part of the big plan for

[46:33] the town. We're a developing town and one of the issues was that the hospital

[46:37] is going to be double in size very shortly and the amount of traffic that

[46:41] it's going to bring is going to spill over into all the surrounding streets.

[46:46] So that's one issue and of course there's other development to happen at

[46:50] the north end of the beaten I believe and um so this is not for now. I think

[46:55] this decision was made for things that are going to be happening in the near

[46:59] future. We're going from 44,000 people to 89,000 people. I I'd wonder if one of

[47:05] the members of staff could can confirm that that's true what I'm saying that

[47:09] you know it's it's in preparation for the development that's to for the for

[47:14] the volume of traffic that is to come. Thank you.

[47:20] » Thank you.

[47:24] » Um one second off then answer the question

[47:28] sir. Who who's

[47:32] » Oh, Ian, go ahead Ian. Thank you

[47:37] » to your worship to council masters. Yes, this is part of a big plan within the

[47:42] attachment. Uh the reports included the multim modal transportation master plan

[47:46] all the and the future DC projects which shows church street south industrial

[47:51] parkway uh which goes as far as 14th line which is a another environmental

[47:55] assessment we're working on that includes multi-use trails to bring the

[47:59] east part of all to the west part of all uh so it is part of the the the larger

[48:04] picture. >> Thank you councelor Gabbert please.

[48:10] » Thank you your worship. Um, yeah. I also have some uh concerns about setting

[48:14] precedents as we move forward uh installing sidewalks and bike lanes as

[48:18] we uh redo our streets, streetscapes. And so I'm just wondering if councelor

[48:22] Rapins amendment will meet the needs of the residents along Church North. So if

[48:28] we approve the amendments, uh if that's

[48:32] going to do it justice.

[48:36] Um thank you very much for the question. So I guess I'll go back to Ian, please.

[48:42] or general manager horn. Did you want me to Thank you. Go ahead, sir.

[48:48] » It's your worship to councelor Gabri. Um I'm not entirely sure how to respond to

[48:52] that. Um while it might meet some needs uh again for the ultimate picture of the

[48:57] master plan, official plan, complete streets, it may not meet the ultimate

[49:01] picture for the for those folks.

[49:07] » Okay. Are you fine with that, Councelor Gabbert? That answer. Thank you very

[49:10] much. So, councelor Rappen, you have put an amendment on the floor and everyone's

[49:16] heard it. So, you're going to move that. Councelor Rappen.

[49:22] » Sir, did you go ahead? >> No, but please come up to the

[49:26] microphone. >> Thank you.

[49:31] You're talking about a 600 meter area that narrows into

[49:37] a newly constructed traffic narrowing zone. This is a bottleneck of all

[49:44] bottlenecks. So with a sidewalk already in place, the

[49:51] crosswalk that's been suggested

[49:56] there, there is no need to take away the east side of the street. I

[50:03] understand what you're saying. Growth is going to happen. It needs to happen.

[50:08] But in a 600 meter stretch, which goes into a bottleneck, there's already not

[50:12] enough parking. And I believe in the uh the the piece that you guys put out, it

[50:16] said people can park on adjacent streets. Well, where's that?

[50:22] I mean, it's it's ridiculous. And so growth is going to happen. It has to and

[50:29] it will. Change will happen. It needs to and it will. But to your point, uh, Miss

[50:35] Gabbert, will it meet the needs of the people who can't get oxygen in, who

[50:41] can't get their sons or daughters in to help them with cancer treatments? Will

[50:45] it meet the needs of people in [sighs]

[50:50] No, it won't. So, at Christmas time or whatever it might be, when my family

[50:55] wants to come over or many families want to have their families over, we simply

[50:59] can't park. It's if it if it was an absolute

[51:05] necessity, I wouldn't be standing here. I wouldn't

[51:10] and I wouldn't call into question what you do and how you go about your

[51:14] business because I'm not you and I'm simply not entitled to to what you know.

[51:24] But to say that to replace 600 meters and take away property for the sake of a

[51:32] sidewalk in a bike lane, which I'm glad you rode your bike, but I also saw you

[51:36] drive by is not enough to warrant the disruption.

[51:44] Do we need new water lines? Yes. Do we need new sewer lines? Yes. Does that

[51:48] bridge need to be done? Unequivocally. But I challenge any of you to sit here

[51:54] and look me in my eyes and tell me that ripping off the east side of the street,

[51:59] putting a sidewalk in is going to make the difference that you're suggesting it

[52:03] needs. It's not. The sidewalk on the west side is big

[52:08] enough. The crosswalk at the top works just

[52:12] fine.

[52:16] I'm sorry. I don't buy it. Nor does anybody on Church Street North. And

[52:21] furthermore, again, the last time we were here, it was said that when

[52:27] decisions and information came out about this,

[52:31] that it would be emailed out. Well, it wasn't.

[52:36] My neighbor Gary was told that someone would come and talk to him. Didn't

[52:43] happen. So, you'll forgive me

[52:49] for being Kurt,

[52:54] but we're not talking about a little thing here.

[53:00] We're talking about massive unnecessary disruption

[53:05] that does not meet our needs and that

[53:10] needs to be discussed. And if there is no legal precedent to say that we need

[53:14] to rip up that side of the street, take it away, then why are you doing it?

[53:19] Why? That sidewalk on the west side handles

[53:25] more than enough traffic.

[53:29] Parking for hospital employees should be a an issue. Why do why do they have to

[53:35] park at the donor diamond? Hopefully that gets remedied.

[53:41] » Okay. But there are bigger issues here. >> Thank you, sir. I'm going to go to the

[53:45] deputy clerk, please.

[53:50] Thank you, Council Harrison McIntyre. Thank you, director Clerk.

[53:56] » Thank you, Worship. Um, I was I I hear what's being said and and

[54:04] um the deputent made a point which is um I just wanted to put a suggestion

[54:10] forward. When you go north on Church Street, it does narrow and there is no

[54:14] sidewalk on the east side of the street. So there's only sidewalk on the west

[54:18] side. So we would be putting in a sidewalk that connected to Victoria

[54:21] Street. Yes. But then um up at the top of Church, you I just wonder if it makes

[54:27] sense to um perhaps not install a sidewalk at all on the east side of the

[54:32] road, but stick with doing bike lanes because as we know um it's we're doing

[54:37] this for future planning connecting to other bike lanes that are going to be

[54:41] done in other parts of the municipality. So, this is just like right now it looks

[54:45] like it's in the middle of nowhere, but eventually it will be hopefully a

[54:48] connected trail uh trail connected network. Um, so just I mean I'm not

[54:55] trying to there's already deputation. There's already amendment on the floor

[54:58] that we need to vote on. However, I just thought I would put that out as part of

[55:03] the discussion. Um, because as a deputent said, there is no

[55:08] sidewalk north of on Highway 9 on Highway 9, excuse me. North

[55:13] Sorry. >> No, thank you for that. And um I'm sure

[55:17] you can do a friendly amendment. Am I Is that allowed, Madame Clerk?

[55:22] » Thank you, your worship. If um councelor Rappen is open to the friendly amendment

[55:27] or he could ask to vote on his amendment.

[55:32] » I believe the amendment would be keeping the bike lanes and my answer is no. I

[55:36] will not accept that. That would be a hostile amendment.

[55:41] » Okay. Councelor Cox. Sorry, councelor. I had to give you the opportunity to

[55:45] respond. >> Thank you, Mayor Norcross. Um, I just

[55:51] wanted to make sure I heard it clear. So, we're not putting in the bike lanes,

[55:55] but we are putting in the white line lines. We have that similar on Patterson

[55:59] Street. We're actually waiting for um a connector before we turn those into bike

[56:03] lanes. um which will probably take uh still a number of years which would

[56:08] probably still be uh the same for this also which means that you can still park

[56:13] on the street. When it comes to the sidewalk, um since this is on committee,

[56:18] if I could potentially ask staff to come back with how that's going to affect the

[56:24] driveway parking now that um the amendment to this recommendation is

[56:29] going to have the sidewalks curbside and we can see how that affects the uh on

[56:35] driveway parking. That would be great um at our next meeting. But I am supportive

[56:40] of also painting the white lines. It is a good traffic calming measure and if

[56:44] there's still able to be on street parking then I think that's good for the

[56:49] residents also. >> Thank you for that. So that was

[56:53] direction for the next meeting to come back if that information can be

[56:57] provided. Correct. Okay. Okay. Councelor Rappen, you have moved your motion.

[57:03] Thank you. Is there a second for councelor Rapin's motion? Councelor Cox.

[57:08] Everyone's heard it. All those in favor

[57:13] one, two, three, four. Does not carry. So I'll read the original motion.

[57:20] Church Street North Road and Bridge improvements update to item C-2.

[57:24] Council, the recommendations that report number

[57:28] ENG2026-16 be received and further council direct

[57:32] staff to proceed with the street church street north road and bridge

[57:36] improvements substantially as designed including sidewalk and bike lane

[57:40] installation as outlined in report number 2026-16.

[57:45] Um, councelor Bis, did you want to move it or you want to speak to it?

[57:51] » Okay. Um, thank you, worship. I don't I I didn't I don't think that uh Council

[57:57] Rapins plan went far enough, and I think that if we had included what Councelor

[58:02] Harrison McIntyre in terms of getting rid of the the sidewalk, I think it may

[58:06] have passed, but um certainly I won't support the original motion, and I think

[58:11] um Council Rapid's motion didn't quite go far enough. So, um I'm it's too bad

[58:17] that they left because I think there's more to this, more legs to this than

[58:21] than what we're Brad,

[58:25] » before I get there though, um,

[58:30] » okay, Deputy Mayor, go ahead. >> Thank you, Mayor Norcross. Um, I've

[58:34] heard a few members of council speak about precedent. This precedent has been

[58:39] set through the municipality. We have um I always say and uh maybe it's not a

[58:45] super popular thing, people love sidewalks until they're in front of

[58:48] their house and then they absolutely I've been requested same as other

[58:53] council members for sidewalks in certain areas of town consistently since I've

[58:58] been on council since 2018. Um but also when the sidewalks are

[59:03] happening in front of their house, nobody likes them. And it's generally

[59:07] because they're losing parking. I get it. I only have a three-car parking lot.

[59:10] If I had a sidewalk in front of my house, it would go down to two and and

[59:13] that affects how how I operate my my family and my property. However, we've

[59:19] done road reconstruction in Beaton and Tottenham and we've we've done the

[59:24] sidewalks. The sidewalks are where I get sometimes feeling like they're not

[59:29] necessary today, but when you're reconstructing a road, you're doing it

[59:33] for the next 40 to 50 years of its life. So what we know today is not going to be

[59:38] the alliston in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, 40 years. And we do I mean we're

[59:43] we're here for the to listen to the community, but we we also have to build

[59:48] safe streets and sidewalks are a part of that. Um

[59:54] it allows I met with some residents on Church Street. Um, and we met at their

[59:59] house and we sat outside and um, it was about, I believe, 3:00 in the afternoon

[1:00:06] and it was very easy to explain to to the residents why this road is

[1:00:11] considered a minor collector. It was busy there. There was bikes on the

[1:00:15] sidewalk. There was people walking on the sidewalk. There was tons of cars

[1:00:19] going by. I think I stopped counting when I got to

[1:00:23] I think it was 40 or 50 cars going by. I stopped counting. So, it is a very very

[1:00:30] busy very busy street and um side like I said sidewalks are not popular when

[1:00:36] they're in front of people's roads. I know in beaten um they did what

[1:00:41] councelor Rapen suggested which was to move the sidewalk abuing basically the

[1:00:46] curb of the road um which which allowed some more homeowners to have that third

[1:00:52] or fourth space in in their driveway. Um, so I I I do appreciate the the

[1:01:00] amendments that councelor RPen put on and I and I do support those. Thank you,

[1:01:05] » Councelor Rappen, please. >> Thank you. I'm I'm lost as to where we

[1:01:12] are in this. Uh, I'll just speak for a second. And, uh, number one, uh, the

[1:01:17] south side of Church Street, they have curbside. That's what it is there for

[1:01:22] crying out loud. Now, I just want to take it north and put a sidewalk there.

[1:01:26] We the bike lanes in my assessment and my walking and talking to the citizens,

[1:01:32] the residents on that street, they're concerned about the the aspect of

[1:01:36] parking for those times that they need lots of parking, whether it's daycare

[1:01:40] drop off at 8 in the morning or something like that. That's why I

[1:01:43] suggested the calming uh white lines because when those cars aren't parked

[1:01:49] and dropping off a kid or picking up a kid at a daycare, the bikes will go in

[1:01:53] there. Cars don't purposely drive in those white lanes. They don't like

[1:01:56] anyone who's driven on on uh Elbert. How many have driven in the white lane

[1:02:00] there? Probably none of us. So, they're they're effective. Are they a bike lane?

[1:02:05] No. I'm dis I'm I'm sorry that they're not an official bike lane. I do

[1:02:09] recognize the fact that what we do now and I brought this up on many other

[1:02:14] occasions in council with other things. We're not planning for me and you. I'm

[1:02:21] planning 30 years from now. I'm planning 10 years from now. I'm planning 40 years

[1:02:25] from now. It's I'm So some things are going to bite a few of us here and

[1:02:29] there, but in the grand scheme of things, it's the the goal is the

[1:02:33] community. The goal My goal is the community.

[1:02:37] And I'm I'm I'm shocked that I wasn't able to relay that to to my c to to

[1:02:43] council. I'm really disappointed that I I I didn't do my job and get this

[1:02:46] across. And I and I apologize to the residents for that. Um I thought I had a

[1:02:51] compromise of which some people are the idea is that everyone's a little bit

[1:02:56] upset with me as opposed to some people really happy and some people really

[1:03:00] upset. I'd much rather you all be a little upset at me or that kind of

[1:03:04] scale. I'll take that. But with with whatever comes out of this, uh, I'm I'm

[1:03:11] I'm afraid that maybe we've we've sort of let down the residence a little bit

[1:03:17] on this one. I I think the compromise I had was a good one. I'm sorry. I'm sorry

[1:03:21] that I didn't I wasn't able to uh to change the effects of anyone else on

[1:03:25] that. So, >> thank you for those comments. Councelor

[1:03:29] Gabbert, please. >> Thank you, your worship. I think my um

[1:03:33] word precedent was taken out of context because I actually meant that going

[1:03:37] forward we're going to have to do this in a lot more neighborhoods and it's

[1:03:39] going to be a pain point coming up again and again. And if we do this in this

[1:03:44] instance, it might still not meet the needs of the residents on Church North.

[1:03:48] So are we setting a dangerous precedent by doing a peace meal of this project?

[1:03:53] Um, so I thought that councelor Cox had a really good suggestion to hear back

[1:03:57] from engineering um with what the lowered sidewalk might do in terms of uh

[1:04:03] future clearing and precedent setting. >> Okay. Thank you. So is there any other

[1:04:11] comments from members of council? So I think the request is to refer this back

[1:04:15] to staff for more information that's been discussed around the table.

[1:04:20] Everybody okay with that? Okay. So then, uh, Councelor Gabrick, you'll move it.

[1:04:24] Councelor Cox, you'll second it. All those in favor? That carries. Thank you,

[1:04:28] councel.

[1:04:31] Okay, we're moving on to Give me a second here, please.

[1:04:39] CW5-3 beaten community center redevelopment

[1:04:43] project refinements and design direction. Did you uh you pulled that,

[1:04:47] councelor Masters?

[1:04:52] Thank you, worship. Am I on? >> Thank you, worship. Um, I just have a

[1:04:58] comment really. Um, you know, the residents of Beaten,

[1:05:02] including myself, prior to moving uh from the town six years ago after 43

[1:05:07] years. Um, I've been highly focused on building a new community rec center

[1:05:12] facility for many years now. However, we should recognize that our town

[1:05:16] population has changed drastically over the last 20 years. Everything has

[1:05:20] changed moving closer to one TNT community. Having said this, even though

[1:05:27] this facility is being built and beaten, we should ensure it will support and be

[1:05:31] able to be used by anyone in the town of New Dumps. That's my comment. Thank you.

[1:05:39] » Thank you for that. Any other comments or questions in regards

[1:05:43] story? Mr. Swirl, did you want to come up please?

[1:05:48] If you've got this public meeting, please

[1:06:03] first of all, thank you very much for allowing me to address the beaten

[1:06:09] [sighs and gasps] uh issue. Um, for those who don't know me, I'm the

[1:06:14] chair of the committee of adjustment and have been on the committee of adjustment

[1:06:19] here in town for the past 14 years. But I'm not here to talk about that. I'm

[1:06:24] here to uh actually give you an outline of what's happening with minor hockey

[1:06:32] across Canada right now. And um it's my understanding um that

[1:06:39] you're about to vote on a proposed new beaten arena. I myself played hockey

[1:06:44] extensively as a youngster. Uh my two boys were on rep teams and Bruce can

[1:06:50] attest to that because he put them in the penalty box many times. Um my

[1:06:55] grandsons are also playing Triple A. Um and just to relieve any preconceived

[1:07:04] notions that uh I'm not on board with the idea of a new rank. I am, but there

[1:07:11] is some hurdles that need to be crossed. Um I can pick paint you a picture of the

[1:07:18] current status of minor hockey throughout Ontario. Figure skating, ice

[1:07:22] rentals, etc. that other communities are and have experienced over the past

[1:07:28] number of years. They are all singing from the same hymbook. And we'll use New

[1:07:34] Market as an example because I was president of New Market of Minor Hockey

[1:07:38] back in the day. Um, and I was also on the committee of adjustment thanks to

[1:07:43] Pam when I moved to to uh Allison. She grabbed me off the street and got me

[1:07:50] involved here. Um, but their ice rinks are the biggest expenditure of the town.

[1:07:57] Um, all the rinks in Ontario sit idle from midnight till uh till 4:00 in the

[1:08:05] afternoon when the bus drops off to kids from school. The upkeep of any arena is

[1:08:10] a 24-hour endeavor and an exorbitant cost to each and every town. The Ray

[1:08:17] Twin Complex was a state-of-the-art in its day.

[1:08:22] um at double ice pad last winter was shut down Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday all

[1:08:30] winter long because the registration for hockey has dropped. When I was running

[1:08:38] New Market Minor hockey, we had eight uh 2,800 kids. Today, they have 800 of

[1:08:45] which only 200 play house lake. the other four the other 600 or 400 I think

[1:08:52] it is four or five that that play rep hockey and now with the advent of the

[1:08:58] OMA allowing kids from other centers to go

[1:09:05] it even sets aside the number of kids that can play. So

[1:09:13] what's really happened is however you know I do believe

[1:09:18] » [clears throat] >> um that you have arrived at a 44 to 46

[1:09:22] million expenditure for the beaten rink alone and that's what at least was

[1:09:28] published. Um, I don't think I have to mention that

[1:09:32] this is an election year, but your timing is a way off the mark and trying

[1:09:36] to sell this expenditure 140 days prior to the election with an

[1:09:41] estimated $500 bump to everyone's taxes in new tech just to cover part of the

[1:09:47] project. Uh my question is have you ever explored

[1:09:52] the muchneeded community center for host activities in beaten where it is

[1:09:58] conducive to each householder and looked on as money well spent and better better

[1:10:04] sell to the to all of new tech. That would be an excellent start and well

[1:10:09] overdue. Lastly, in addition, prior to building a

[1:10:14] new rink, the only [clears throat] way you can

[1:10:17] build it is if it's justified. And I assume you've all done your homework and

[1:10:22] ice time is at a premium in new tech right now.

[1:10:26] What we did in New Market was we asked each individual group that uses ice over

[1:10:33] the winter and ball hockey in the summer to give us the hour that they would

[1:10:38] spend. So when you get that information, then you can say, "Okay, we need a new

[1:10:44] rink or we don't need a new rink." Obviously, I hope you've done your

[1:10:48] homework and you're asking for a new rank for $450 million or four45 million.

[1:10:56] Um, if you do your homework, it's an easier sell. Soon as that came out in

[1:11:01] the paper the other day, it's just gone rampant through town. And you guys don't

[1:11:07] hear it, but I hear it. Um and getting comments from each association

[1:11:14] uh for the coming year is what you really need. And you certainly should

[1:11:18] look at [clears throat] the option of putting a single pad

[1:11:24] attached to the current double pad here in town and that's your complex. Um the

[1:11:32] infrastructure is there, the parking that uh I'm sure you're going to have to

[1:11:36] add, but the lights are there, everything is there to get in and out.

[1:11:41] Um and if you take a single pad and put it in along the other two, it's going to

[1:11:51] be so much less expensive and a lot easier to sell to the public here in

[1:11:56] town. When they see that number of 450, my phone rang off the hooks. They go,

[1:12:01] "What the hell are they doing over there?" Um, and whether that's erroneous

[1:12:05] or not, I'm not sure, but go ahead with go ahead with the community center in in

[1:12:10] uh um Beaton where [clears throat] everybody can use it. You know, they

[1:12:14] look at the older people look at the the ice rink and they go, "Well, we don't

[1:12:18] use it, you know, but our kids do. We have to provide that. I understand that.

[1:12:23] I get that." But I think what you really got to do is take this to the next

[1:12:28] level. sit down and make sure you've exhausted every avenue of where you can

[1:12:33] put the new rink besides beating. We we know you've done your homework with the

[1:12:38] beaten thing, but make sure that you know are we going to save money by

[1:12:43] putting in a single pad. Um you still got two pads there. Um but coming down

[1:12:51] spending $45 million, it's not now. It's what Mr. Raffin said. Uh, councelor

[1:12:58] Rappen said it's five years from now, 10, 15, 20 years, you're going to have

[1:13:04] the Ray 20 complexes across Canada, which is happening right now, sitting

[1:13:09] empty. And you still have to keep them going. You still have to to, you know,

[1:13:14] if they open them up for a day or two days, they still got to have ice in

[1:13:18] them. They still got the generators going and so on and so forth. I just ask

[1:13:23] on behalf of everybody else that if you would just make sure all avenues are are

[1:13:30] uh looked at and uh good luck. >> Thank you very much, sir.

[1:13:37] Any other comments from members of the public? Okay, I'm not seeing any. Um

[1:13:45] any comments, questions for members of council?

[1:13:49] Councelor Cox. Thank you, Mayor Narcross. Uh, thank you

[1:13:54] staff for this report and thank you for your deputation regarding the beaten

[1:13:59] facility. We are at 99% um capacity for prime time ICE. Um, I understand that

[1:14:07] the price tag on this seems high. Um, I can tell you that this council and

[1:14:15] myself are going to exhaust every option for grant funding, sponsorship,

[1:14:21] everything that was added into the motion before this came to council. Um,

[1:14:27] also absent from the report was I know that the timeline was included as to

[1:14:31] project milestones. Um, this is not going to be a tax hit

[1:14:37] for the 2027 budget. um that's not how we do the funding for these projects.

[1:14:42] So, we do have time to get that sponsorship um and that uh fundraising

[1:14:48] and grant component. A number of counselors

[1:14:52] uh the mayor, deputy mayor, and staff are going to be attending the AMO

[1:14:55] conference in the next couple weeks. We have the opportunity to uh get in front

[1:15:00] of ministers for the province to um uh get this project in front of them for

[1:15:07] additional funding. Uh the federal government just released

[1:15:11] uh grant opportunities for arenas and recreation components totaling I believe

[1:15:16] it was around a billion dollars. Um

[1:15:22] on top of that um I would like to ask staff it's the facility design to pursue

[1:15:28] a high level of Rick Hansen Foundation accessibility certification

[1:15:33] just is phenomenal. That sounds great. Just a few things missing in the report

[1:15:37] for that. if we can get that to come back to the next meeting, how that could

[1:15:41] uh potentially um affect the budget because I didn't

[1:15:45] see uh any budget implica implications included in that and also the um design

[1:15:52] footprint if we can get that back too. Um

[1:15:57] and if we can also look into I know that staff is once again asking for an NHL

[1:16:03] size ice service. um if we can look into potential sizing similar to the TCFC

[1:16:12] which I believe is um kind of an in between the beaten facility currently

[1:16:18] and what we have at the NTRC which is NHL size ice. I would appreciate uh that

[1:16:24] coming back to look for potential cost savings in that too at the next meeting

[1:16:28] please. >> Thank you.

[1:16:32] » And sorry I'm I forgot one thing. Go ahead.

[1:16:34] » If we can continue to work with um our ball hockey user group um and get any of

[1:16:41] their questions answered that uh they've presented to council in the last couple

[1:16:46] emails uh in the next couple weeks before we come back to council. Sorry, I

[1:16:50] guess it's like a month, the next month before we come back to council. If we

[1:16:53] can continue to have staff work with our ball hockey user group too, please.

[1:16:58] » Okay. Just for clarity, councelor Cox, did you not want to make a decision on

[1:17:02] this tonight till that information comes back?

[1:17:06] » Um, no. We can we can still make a decision on this, I think, and that can

[1:17:09] come back. We still it's not passing completely through. It's only committee.

[1:17:13] So, we have that ability at uh at council, but if we have that additional

[1:17:18] information while we pass this recommendation, that would be great.

[1:17:20] Please. >> No, thank you. We just want to ask for

[1:17:23] clarification. Councelor Masters. Thank you, worship. Um, I think, um, you

[1:17:30] know, um, as councelor Cox mentioned, you know, there's some ice choices out

[1:17:36] there. And, um, um, there's basically three ice choices. We have Olympic size,

[1:17:42] we have our regular HA size, and we have our beaten size. And, um, I think that

[1:17:48] question was brought forward before. Um but I noticed that um Carlo, president

[1:17:53] of the ball hockey league is in in in the audience right now. Um there was a

[1:17:57] discussion um regarding the size of the ice um and how it would be adaptable for

[1:18:04] the ball hockey league and I think at that time it was mentioned that um the

[1:18:09] ball hockey league doesn't need the whole ice there especially in practice

[1:18:13] they can use part partial or half or a quarter. I'm not sure the exact wording

[1:18:18] at the time. And um if that's the case, when the ice is taken out, um can we uh

[1:18:25] is there a a sectioning off um equipment that can be used to divvy up the ice

[1:18:31] according to how the bull hockey league would like to uh utilize it at that

[1:18:36] time. And um and I I wonder if that if you have an answer to that or if that

[1:18:42] has been discussed with the bull hockey league and that would dictate what ice

[1:18:47] we can go with uh you know so uh which would be so if we decide to go with the

[1:18:53] NHL size ice then perhaps that would work you know uh well for the ball

[1:18:59] hockey league if we have the proper dividers to be you be in place. That's

[1:19:06] my question.

[1:19:10] Okay. So, your question I I don't think they finalized that design yet, but I'll

[1:19:15] go to uh Director Mobs, please. >> Through your worship to um councelor

[1:19:20] Masters, I do have Philip O Sullivan, the prime architect with working on the

[1:19:24] project from Perkins Wall. So, I'll if it's okay with you, Mr. Mayor, I'll pass

[1:19:28] it over to him to answer this question. Um if council wishes, we can also speak

[1:19:33] to the cost for Rick Hansen certification as well.

[1:19:37] Thank you. >> Go ahead, sir.

[1:19:39] » Uh through you, Mr. Mayor to council masters. Um yes, the answer short answer

[1:19:43] is yes. Um there can be any number of creative design solutions created to

[1:19:47] utilize the ice, let's say an NHL size pad um in ways that could accommodate uh

[1:19:53] ball hockey. Uh that's again would take a great deal of conversation with the

[1:19:57] ball hockey league, which we're happy to do. We have done in the past already and

[1:20:00] we're happy to continue that conversation. Um it remains to be seen

[1:20:03] whether or not that'll be satisfactory to to the ball hockey league. That's

[1:20:07] that's the first thing. Um I will say just as a a point of note that um to

[1:20:11] your comment about three types of ice which was quite apt. Um we traditionally

[1:20:16] in my career in the last kind of 25 years have done none other than NHL size

[1:20:21] ice just as a record in terms of community standard across Ontario and

[1:20:25] even the world if you will. Um and that's where I'll leave it on that. to

[1:20:29] follow with the Rick Hansen. Um I have been part of or led the design team that

[1:20:33] has had the great success of of having Rick Hansen design certification. Um and

[1:20:38] that's a gold they give it gold stars. Um we have in fact received three as far

[1:20:42] as I recall. Um that process is done in a two-stage process. It's done both in

[1:20:46] the design phase which is means all the way up to the end of drawings prior to

[1:20:50] bid. That's when you get your your kind of first design. They go through it in a

[1:20:54] couple of iterations and ask questions about that and that's incorporated into

[1:20:57] the design process. That's not that there's no cost to you save and accept

[1:21:00] um the registration which is relatively minor compared to the the price tag of

[1:21:04] the building as a whole. Um and secondly the second part of the certification is

[1:21:08] during what they call occupancy preoccupancy you do a review and you

[1:21:12] have uh the reviewer who is assigned by Rick Hansen they come to the building

[1:21:15] and they look at it before you occupy to make sure there is no kind of

[1:21:18] outstanding um deficiencies I'll call it in terms of their review from the design

[1:21:22] side and again that is also it's it's kind of a predium rate relative to how

[1:21:26] many times they've got to come back. So overall in general without having

[1:21:29] specific project sizes as you say we haven't finished the design but the cost

[1:21:33] is relatively minor or I would say minor compared to things like lead

[1:21:38] certification other kind of certifications that are out there

[1:21:40] relative to building well fit well that kind of thing.

[1:21:42] » Okay thank you councelor Biss. >> Uh thank you worship. I think this is a

[1:21:47] great discussion tonight. You know we're looking at a $46 million project. We

[1:21:52] need to get this right. It's a lot of money. So, we have to make sure that we

[1:21:55] take all the input from our friends in ball hockey, our friends at TNT. Um, you

[1:22:01] know, we've got to figure out what we can do in order to reduce the costs, not

[1:22:05] just the capital cost, but also the operating costs. Let's make sure that we

[1:22:09] keep that in mind. How much is that how much that's going to cost the taxpayer

[1:22:12] every year? And so, I think this is great discussion. And I think um I think

[1:22:16] it's good that we're taking this slowly, that we're looking at all the options

[1:22:20] and like I like we've talked about tonight, what is the most appropriate

[1:22:23] size of the ice in order for us to uh accommodate today's users and

[1:22:28] potentially tomorrow's users. I'm a big believer that uh there's only right now

[1:22:34] we live in the moment. The future can't be determined. The past is the past. So

[1:22:38] let's live in the moment and let's figure out exactly what we need today.

[1:22:42] Um but what we definitely need is to make sure that we um do this in the most

[1:22:46] cost-effective manner possible. So I look forward to having more update uh

[1:22:51] another update come the council meeting next month and um any work that can be

[1:22:55] done in order to accommodate and work with our user groups so that we can

[1:22:59] ensure that they use it to keep our operating costs down because at the end

[1:23:03] of the day we've got to make sure that those user groups that pay the bills are

[1:23:07] still there to pay the bills when we build this $46 million facility. So, um,

[1:23:12] your worship, I would just ask staff just keep be cognizant of that fact that

[1:23:15] make sure the user groups are all consulted that they that we that they

[1:23:19] understand the cost that we're working on here and that we can continue to

[1:23:23] figure a way to reduce the cost of this facility. And to councelor Cox's uh uh

[1:23:29] to what she was saying, let's make sure we do our very best in order to get

[1:23:33] grants from the other levels of government in order to make this

[1:23:35] affordable despite the fact that we are going to grow hugely in this this this

[1:23:40] municipality. So we'll have a larger tax base. Nevertheless, we need to

[1:23:44] understand that this is these these prices and these costs are going to be

[1:23:48] impacting today's residents and not tomorrow's.

[1:23:53] » Thank you for those comments. So, um, I've had nobody offer to refer this till

[1:23:58] the additional information is received. And the recommendation is that council

[1:24:04] confirm a North American ice surface measuring approximately 200 feet by 85

[1:24:09] feet as the functional program for the beaten community center redevelopment

[1:24:13] project and its report number RFC2026-23 be received and for the council direct

[1:24:20] staff and the project consultant to incorporate universal accessibility

[1:24:24] princip principles into the facility design and pursue a high level of Rick

[1:24:28] Hansen Foundation RHFAC. including design considerations to support sledge

[1:24:34] hockey program and participation. And further, council direct staff to review

[1:24:38] and refine project contingency and soft cost allowances through detailed design

[1:24:42] and report back to council with updated estimates at a project at appropriate

[1:24:46] project milestones. So, councelor Cox, did you want to move that? Okay. Is

[1:24:51] there somebody like to second that? Um, councelor Rappen. All those in favor?

[1:24:59] It's carried. Thank you. Okay. So, we look forward to the future report. So,

[1:25:04] thank you very much. And Director Mobs that we're clear. Yeah, we're fine.

[1:25:07] Okay, great. Thank you so much.

[1:25:16] Okay, we have no public notices and we're moving on to a German.

[1:25:24] Great job tonight, Madam Clerk. Thank you.

[1:25:27] So, we have a recommendation that the and your team recommendation that the

[1:25:31] committee of the whole meeting of July 27, 2026 adjourn at 7:22 p.m. Councelor

[1:25:36] Bish, you'll move that. Councelor Masters, you'll second that. Thank you.

[1:25:40] Thank you to all the residents that came out tonight. Thank you to staff.

Council Meeting - 27 Jul 2026

Transcript