[0:18] room 124 with the provisions of MGL chapter 38

[0:22] section 20. Notice is hereby given that the planning board will meet on Tuesday,

[0:26] September 8th, 2026. It's in town hall, meeting room 124. Members of the public

[0:30] are welcome to attend this in person at 1 Liberty Lane, Norfolk, Mass. Zoom

[0:35] connection provided. Please note that the in-person meeting will not be

[0:38] suspended or terminated if technological problems interrupt the remote

[0:41] connection.

[0:45] On the board to my left, we have Dan Seager, preser

[0:50] » present. >> I am Chris Montford. We have Melissa

[0:52] Mayo >> here.

[0:53] » And Gary Sullivan. >> Hello.

[0:55] » All right. So, we're calling the meeting to order and our first appointment is 5

[0:59] Sharon Avenue. Information discussion regarding a parking lot expansion. Rich.

[1:08] » Yeah, sure. >> Come on up. Sit down over here in that

[1:10] nice brown chair. Give us an intro introduction of who you are and the

[1:14] location that you represent. >> Okay. Hi, I'm um Hey Sona. Um I'm doctor

[1:21] and veterinarian. I'm open I'm uh plan to open the veterinary hospital in the

[1:27] five Sharon. Um and before I open I um like thinking maybe it's a good idea

[1:33] just to get a little extra parking space uh for less like congestion and

[1:39] » like a traffic flow. So uh we're working on the interior right now. So um maybe

[1:45] it's a good idea we can I can just uh discuss this informally. Um so uh my

[1:53] goal is um like making approximately two to four parking space. Um current

[1:59] parking space is four uh and have a one accessible parking lot. So um

[2:06] uh so I was just uh that's a like I was just checking um whether that's a good

[2:12] like a comfortable with a board and then I'm going to hire um engineer and then

[2:19] surveyor um but I just want to hear about

[2:24] um board. >> Okay, sounds good. So this is the um

[2:29] property that was previously an animal clinic at one point, right?

[2:33] » Yes. Yes, correct. >> And um so you said that it has two spots

[2:37] now. >> Um it has a four spot.

[2:39] » Has four spots. And do you want to add additional four?

[2:41] » Uh additional two to four. >> Two to four. Okay.

[2:45] » All right. >> It's kind of hard to see the

[2:49] » It's definitely zooming in there. >> If it's easier, I can I print out some u

[2:55] picture. >> I'm also looking at it on Google Maps.

[2:59] Um the street view is actually not that bad besides the bulldozer that's sitting

[3:03] right in front of the house. >> Um so the reason why I get some informal

[3:10] feedback is because in terms of trying to put this the

[3:14] parking spaces in the front which would be angle parking that that would require

[3:21] a special permit. >> Yeah. So, I wanted to kind of get a

[3:24] sense from the board if that seems to be something that the board would give

[3:30] consideration to before he gets into doing design.

[3:34] » Yes. >> Permaning.

[3:35] » Currently, as shown there, and I see here on the on the uh street view, we've

[3:40] got the four spots there with kind of like that hammer turn and then there's

[3:44] another driveway to the right of the property as well. It has a couple of

[3:47] additional spaces. And so the proposed location that you're looking at is right

[3:51] where the tree is. >> Yes, correct.

[3:53] » Okay. So you would remove the tree and clean up some of that landscaping and

[3:57] just expand out that way. >> Yes.

[3:59] » Okay.

[4:02] Um you do have a neighbor abuing you

[4:06] directly across the street. >> Those are the new buildings.

[4:10] » That's commercial. >> That's commercial.

[4:14] And then you have somebody to your right still.

[4:19] And then I know there's an electrical company further up the street as well

[4:23] before you get to the police station. And then

[4:27] Crowley still hasn't done anything on that corner or no Crowley's on the other

[4:31] side on the opposite street. >> Oh, yeah.

[4:37] » No, they haven't moved forward on that. >> Yeah.

[4:39] » And then so we've got two residential remaining on this street. Is that

[4:43] correct? One, two.

[4:47] There's three. >> Three residents.

[4:48] » Oh, yeah. Hold on. Sorry. One, two. No, it's actually four.

[4:53] » Four. Okay. >> 7 9 11 and six.

[5:01] » So, here's the thing for me. I'm not vehemingly opposed to the idea

[5:05] considering the nature of the district that you're in um and kind of like the

[5:10] changing nature of the property and the area. Um, but I would be interested in

[5:14] hearing what the abuters have to say. Um, not that we would make a decision

[5:19] solely off of their recommendations or requests, but I do want to make sure

[5:23] that they're, you know, aware and they're not concerned with, you know,

[5:28] too much of uh, what's going on. I know there's a lot

[5:33] already going on in that neighborhood and it's a lot of change, but um, I

[5:38] think it'd be valid to hear from them as well. Any other comments from the board?

[5:44] » Are there plans to expand the clinic at all or is the footprint of the building

[5:48] will be the same? Same amount >> same but like um Yeah, I think it'll be

[5:52] easier like for the drop off and pick up and

[5:55] » Mhm. >> and then staff parking.

[5:58] » Mhm. But the capacity of the clinic isn't going to change.

[6:01] » No, it'll be same. >> And it looks like it's appointment only,

[6:06] not like an emergency clinic. You don't have

[6:08] » no emergency just Yeah. Just a Yeah. Regular

[6:12] » like a >> basically limited to the people that

[6:14] you're serving at that time. >> Exactly. Exactly.

[6:18] » And no boarding or anything? >> No boarding. Nothing.

[6:23] » The property next door 7 think might be close to could be in

[6:29] contingent right now. >> It is

[6:31] » right. Mhm. >> I think um

[6:33] » do we know what the uh intended >> Well, we if I recall correctly, I think

[6:38] I had a couple realtors that approached about somebody bringing

[6:43] their business like operate live there but also operate their business.

[6:47] » Yeah.

[6:52] » And then the other two neighbors are like decently set back. Yeah. on the

[6:57] opposite side.

[7:04] » Melissa, Gary, Hillary, >> I'm okay with this. I

[7:07] » I think it's fine. But yeah, I mean, I think it's fair to see what a butters

[7:11] have. >> I agree. I think it definitely the flow

[7:14] would be better with the new design. Um, and you know, as long as there's some

[7:21] nice landscaping out front, I think, >> yeah, my only other concern would be,

[7:25] you know, that's going to be a pathway that the police are going to be taking

[7:27] in and out of the station. And so, um, somebody reversing as a police officer

[7:32] is coming down that could present a kind of an issue. Um, so that's the only

[7:37] thing I'd like for you to make sure that you're taking into consideration when

[7:39] you have the engineer on board and the architect looking at this.

[7:42] » Okay, I got Um, but again, I I think you've got a pretty decent signal to

[7:47] move forward to design and you know, let's see what they come up with.

[7:51] » All right, sounds great. Yeah. >> Anybody else?

[7:54] » Sounds good. >> All right, awesome. Thank you so much.

[7:56] Looking forward to seeing what look like.

[7:59] » Thank you.

[8:04] » All right, that's our 6:30. Um, so can we do eight Sharons? Stay on Sharon for

[8:09] now. >> Sure. All right. So, request for

[8:12] occupancy. Didn't get

[8:15] » I didn't hear back from um beta. >> No, it did not

[8:24] permit on this one. Oh, picking my feet.

[8:32] The request is for

[8:37] Sorry, I got to get my brain around. Sorry.

[8:41] So, I did reach out to Beta a couple of times. Um, I sent them the asill plan

[8:47] and asked him to review that and unfortunately I didn't even think to

[8:52] reach out to him today.

[8:56] » Was it permanent or >> they were looking for Well,

[9:02] I think they were looking for permanent but

[9:10] Um I don't think they have

[9:18] cuz they don't have any temp right now. >> What's that?

[9:21] » They don't have anything. >> They don't have anything. No.

[9:24] » So I think the safest thing or the the efficient thing to do would

[9:31] be to recommend a temp >> at least until our next meeting.

[9:34] » I mean what's what's outstanding? Uh they said nothing but

[9:39] » they said nothing but we haven't had B to go out and do a site inspection

[9:42] compared to the the approved plan versus the asbuilt to make sure that everything

[9:46] was built to conformance with the approved

[9:49] site plan. >> Yeah.

[9:51] » Um >> I mean did they know that did they know

[9:54] that they were up for discussion today? >> Yeah, I emailed I Yeah, I've emailed him

[9:58] a couple of times but >> and nobody showed up

[10:02] » obviously talking about the owner. >> Oh,

[10:04] » nobody's here to represent. Yeah. >> Yeah.

[10:07] » No, he's not. >> Um,

[10:09] » one of the uh >> Hold on. Let me check my

[10:18] So, the building inspector did give him a temporary occupancy until tonight.

[10:25] Um,

[10:29] » so I think if you don't mind, I think it just makes sense to continue to next

[10:33] meeting. That's the only thing I'd be willing to

[10:36] do. >> I mean, that's essentially the only

[10:40] » Yeah, >> that's the baseball one. The baseball.

[10:43] » Yeah. So, what give them a temporary until next October?

[10:48] » Till October. >> Good with this.

[10:52] » Sounds good. >> All right. Looking for a motion to

[10:54] extend the temporary occupancy uh to 8 Sharons Avenue

[10:59] » to move October 13th. >> Till October 13th.

[11:03] So moved. >> Do I have a second?

[11:05] » Second. >> All those in favor? I

[11:07] » All right. Hairs. >> Thank you.

[11:11] » Valerie, you're up. >> Um I had a couple edits. Did you see

[11:16] those in >> I did. I did make those. Thank you.

[11:19] » So they were pretty minor. Like a word here, a word there, but those were in

[11:24] the folder.

[11:27] » That's all I got for you. >> All right. to uh review and approve the

[11:32] August 11, 2026 meeting minutes as amended.

[11:37] » So moved. >> Do I have a second?

[11:40] » Second. >> All those in favor?

[11:42] » I. >> All right. Thank you.

[11:50] We've got street acceptances. That'll be a little bit of time. No,

[11:54] » not really. >> 2 minutes.

[11:56] » Go pretty quick. >> Let's go.

[11:58] Um what I would ask the planning board

[12:02] would be to recommend to the select board to accept Norway Norway Farms

[12:06] Drive. That's done. >> Good.

[12:09] » It is done. There's a couple of things they have to do, but at least this start

[12:12] there's a a patch that needs to be done, but there's time. Um this so in terms of

[12:17] process goes to select board. The select board's

[12:20] going to refer it back to you for a recommendation which will include

[12:25] review. DPW's already been reviewing it. >> Okay.

[12:28] » But DPW will make a recommendation back to the plan board and then also back to

[12:32] the select board. But just to keep it on queue to go forward, it would just be

[12:35] Norway Farm Drive. The other Bristol PT states there's there's probably too many

[12:41] things that I'd be concerned we might not be able to get done by the end of

[12:45] the calendar year. >> Yeah.

[12:46] » So that one should wait for now. >> And as far as I recall, we have a pretty

[12:51] healthy bond still in place >> with for no. Yeah,

[12:56] » we just didn't we just last meeting >> reduced it down.

[12:59] » We reduced it, but it's not like >> Yeah.

[13:01] » Is that work going to be done and complete before town meeting?

[13:06] » Yes. >> Okay.

[13:07] » So, like if there's if they do that work, we'll we'll be able to be pretty

[13:12] confident additional issues aren't going to pop up.

[13:16] » Correct. >> Yeah. And if they don't, we can say no

[13:18] by the time it comes back to us from the select board.

[13:22] » Yes. Is that piece of sidewalk complete that they were going to do from Norway

[13:26] Farms out to Medway, I believe? >> Yeah. The section between that and Crest

[13:31] Road, I >> believe. So,

[13:33] » y that's been done for a while. >> Okay.

[13:35] » Yeah. >> Um the only thing there was a gate valve

[13:39] that needed to be patched that was at the end of the closet from the we

[13:42] reduced the bond. You remember last? >> Yep.

[13:46] » Last month, >> the patch was the one thing that needed

[13:48] to be done. We've already have the asbelt plans. funds but we need to

[13:54] » has beta gone through them yet. >> So this is not going through

[13:58] peer review. Okay. >> In terms of third party it's being done

[14:01] by our office and DPW. >> Okay.

[14:04] » But um we have the asbel plans. I think everything

[14:08] » just referred back to the DPW director. Make sure everything's in order. But I

[14:11] think we're in pretty good shape. It shouldn't be an issue to uh I know the

[14:15] association pretty anxious to get the

[14:18] » Yeah, I bet. accept it over as a as a town road.

[14:22] » Okay. >> Like I said, if something were to come

[14:24] up, you could always be there's there's time in the process. And

[14:28] » this was just those little like pothole sink holes, right?

[14:32] » Sack. >> Yeah. I'll be happy to put this one to

[14:34] bed soon. >> Yeah. So, if you would recommend that

[14:38] for acceptance, refer back to the select board, then

[14:41] they're going to refer back to you. Okay.

[14:46] We don't need to do like a hearing on these, right?

[14:49] » No. Okay. >> No, you don't do it. The the select

[14:53] board as the role commissioners will do a

[14:56] meeting, not a hearing >> cuz it's

[15:01] » um and so Bristol Pond, you're not sure if that one's going to be done by town

[15:03] meeting. So, should we include that for now and then?

[15:06] » No. Yeah, just discard that. So, that's that's a future.

[15:10] » So, it's really just Norway Farms Drive. What about these other two? Blue Heron

[15:15] and Malard. >> Oh, they're all associnates.

[15:21] Got it. >> Thanks. Yeah.

[15:24] » All right. So then looking for a motion to recommend to the select board uh

[15:28] Norway Farms Drive for uh street acceptance at the fall special town

[15:32] meeting. >> Second.

[15:35] » All those in favor? I >> All right.

[15:38] We've got our 645 Liberty Green, 7 and 9 Liberty Lane, review of conceptual site

[15:43] plan with PY Homes. Please join us.

[15:46] » How you doing? >> Hello.

[15:47] » Well, how are you? >> Welcome back.

[16:00] » All right. Thank you very much. Uh, Ess Petri with PY Homes in New England.

[16:05] Dan Skolski DMS Design. We're the architects for the project.

[16:08] » And recognizing that this is kind of our informal presentation to you guys. And

[16:13] really our goal here tonight is to give you a high level uh overview of the

[16:18] project. I'll skip through some of the formalities for tonight. Um and uh just

[16:22] because we're looking to get some feedback with our expectation is we'd

[16:26] like to submit um for uh permit application within the next month or so.

[16:30] So we're here tonight to to hear from you and get some feedback. Um, so if you

[16:35] don't mind going to probably let's skip through a couple slides because it's

[16:40] more skip please again I can go I'll go through this kind of stuff uh more

[16:45] detail when we actually present but I wanted to get your feedback on the

[16:48] actual site plan and project at this point. Uh great. Yeah, this is perfect.

[16:52] Thank you. So, um, the image on the left shows, uh, the project location just

[16:58] down the street from here from town hall on Liberty Lane. And then on the right,

[17:03] uh, highlighted in red is the site itself. I'm sure everyone is familiar

[17:07] with it. uh Liberty Lane uh traveling kind of along the top of the screen. Uh

[17:12] the MBTA parking lot on uh the left if you will of the site and then Meeting

[17:19] House Hill Road or excuse me, Meeting House Road on the right and then uh

[17:23] there's a couple condo associations uh sitting up behind it. Um the site itself

[17:29] is is pretty flat uh specifically along Liberty Lane and along the MBTA parking

[17:34] lot as you go up Meeting House Road. Uh it does elevate till you get to the back

[17:40] um where the condos are and it's a about a 30ft difference in elevation um from

[17:45] Liberty Lane. Next slide, please. Just a couple of other graphics to help orient

[17:51] uh I want to in particularly call out uh image one because we do feel that this

[17:56] is a really important um um site view and and aspect of this location. This

[18:03] will kind of be the entryway coming from town hall area um and uh kind of

[18:07] entering into the site area at the intersection of meeting house. And then

[18:12] two is just kind of showing that slope going up the hill there. And then the

[18:16] view uh at slide three is just uh uh looking uh from at top of the hill kind

[18:20] of down back over the site uh towards um Liberty uh lane. So uh next slide

[18:28] please. Uh, and just again I'm going quickly only because again I want to get

[18:33] to the meet for tonight. Um, we're happy to spend as much time as as you want on

[18:37] on anything in particular, but um, you know, from a site characteristic

[18:41] perspective um, it was really uh, important for the design of this site.

[18:45] And as I mentioned, the elevation change coming from Liberty Lane up meeting

[18:49] house is a roughly 30 foot elevation change. It almost creates a a bowl uh if

[18:55] you will um from where you are at the where uh the project level would be

[19:00] versus where the um foundation level of the condos um the closest uh residential

[19:05] units up behind it. It's at least a 30 uh foot uh difference in elevation.

[19:11] And then another critical element that drove a lot of our site design is you

[19:15] can see in the bottom left in the kind of red dot rectangle. It's an existing

[19:19] drainage structure related to uh part of the original design of this

[19:25] area. Um there was originally intended to be a stop and shop on this site as

[19:29] part of an overall larger development. This drainage structure takes some of

[19:33] the drainage from the condo associations up on top of the hill. And so as part of

[19:38] our project, we're obviously maintaining that and preserving that and respecting

[19:42] that. So that you know, although there is when you look at it from a site plan,

[19:46] there's a big chunk of land there, it's not something that we can design on or

[19:49] use. I think that you'll see we will try and activate the space because it is a

[19:53] subsurface drainage system uh with an opportunity for maybe a walking trail or

[19:58] something, but as far as any sort of a structure or design that uh that area is

[20:02] is off limits. So, uh, uh, next slide. It goes to, uh,

[20:08] yeah, right to the meat of the the site plan. And so, um, the site itself is

[20:13] just under six acres total. Uh, what we are proposing are two 50 unit fourstory

[20:20] residential buildings with, uh, garages under on on both of them. Each building,

[20:26] uh, is proposed to have 27 two-bedroom and 23 one-bedroom units. Uh and again

[20:31] these are all home ownership condos. So uh no rentals in any of this. Uh each of

[20:37] the garages will have uh 50 parking spaces as well underground or under

[20:43] building. Uh there is a um amenity space uh shown

[20:48] in the back there for the the homeowners that will have uh gas grills, seating

[20:53] areas, benches, and some some cafe style um patio tables. Uh from a utility

[21:00] perspective, uh these are all electric buildings. So um there's no gas or or um

[21:06] or fossil fuel on site. Um we have coordinated with DPW at a high level

[21:12] from a water perspective. There's water available as well as from a sewer

[21:16] perspective. There is um one of the few spots in town where there is municipal

[21:22] sewer and there is capacity there. And um my we've we've had some initial

[21:26] conversations with the condo associations as well. We've started to

[21:30] meet with them. Um they seem excited at least at the initial conversation to get

[21:35] some additional users on uh that uh that sewer system. Uh and in talking with uh

[21:42] at least with the previous DPW director, I we have not met with the new DPW

[21:47] director yet, but uh uh Blair had uh and been con uh he convinced us or he was um

[21:53] uh confident that there was plenty of uh capacity to service the project from

[21:58] both a sewer and water perspective. Uh so some of you may remember we've

[22:04] been, you know, kind of playing around with this site for, you know, almost a

[22:07] year and a half, two years now. And uh uh next slide please. Uh one more

[22:12] please. Um so this was kind of some of the architecture that we originally

[22:16] presented. Uh we received uh a lot of feedback. Um you know from a design

[22:22] perspective but also um from a a height perspective while anything that we

[22:27] propose you know from a residential perspective will be within the um we're

[22:32] anticipating to be within the the height requirements of the 46 ft height. Um, we

[22:37] recognized there was a lot of discussion when the the zoning change and amendment

[22:42] was going to place regarding four stories versus three stories. Um, and

[22:48] there was some discussion about an opportunity to try and bury the fourth

[22:52] floor, so to speak, a little bit better from an architectural perspective. And

[22:55] Dan will do a much better job of of talking from an architectural uh way and

[23:00] on and how they want to do that. And so that's why we brought Dan and his team

[23:03] on to kind of uh dive into the architecture with a little more detail

[23:08] um in in how we can kind of um you know better meet what the the the fit was for

[23:14] this this area from a height perspective but also from a design perspective. So

[23:18] um Dan and his team next slide please. U have taken it through a couple different

[23:23] iterations. This was one that we presented. Um we met with the

[23:28] design review board 3 weeks ago I think at this point. Two

[23:32] two three weeks ago. Um got some great feedback from them as well which has

[23:36] allowed us to further um adjust uh what we're you know what we're looking to

[23:42] include from an architecture perspective in our uh permit application.

[23:47] You running now? Do you mind? Thank you.

[23:54] Yep. And so this was uh I believe this was the iteration that we presented to

[23:58] the design review board recently. Um and again we got a lot of great feedback and

[24:03] then now we've taken that feedback and further adjusted to uh next slide

[24:09] please.

[24:14] » What the >> big reveal? Guess I'm not working to go

[24:20] with my left hand. Okay. >> Oh, here we go. So, and I'm going to now

[24:26] turn it over to Dan to to speak to it from an architectural perspective.

[24:30] » So, after after meeting with uh design review board, they were um pretty clear

[24:35] and pretty friendly with the concept, site usage, site coverage, unit count,

[24:41] and even and even the height. uh but they felt that we're missing the mark a

[24:45] little bit on uh local downtown regulations for for design and uh

[24:51] specifically in terms of um kind of breaking down that mass, breaking down

[24:55] that box. So they they they had a lot of uh commentary on that and that sort of

[24:59] led to the moves that we did here. So um we heard them, we went back, we we we

[25:05] reread the regulations and uh and and we have this and what we're doing here are

[25:09] a couple different things. one we um by the way just before again this be when

[25:15] we went into that meeting and everything before that meeting each building was

[25:20] identical they're mirror images of each other but they're completely identical

[25:23] and for this one we're making uh one change we think is meaningful which is

[25:27] creating this tower element that we see on the right of this elevation over here

[25:32] um which is really that focal point if you if you remember when ESI was

[25:35] presenting uh that was photograph number one really the corner site meeting house

[25:39] road and and Liberty. That's, you know, we coming out of downtown. It really

[25:43] marks the site and uh so we are adding a little bit of height there to accomplish

[25:48] that. We are also uh adding a hipped roof to that area and we are changing

[25:52] the siding that be some sort of a uh vertical board and batten what we're

[25:56] we're proposing there and and the color change will be there. So that really

[25:59] marks the site that element and and only that element happens on building one not

[26:04] on building two. The rest of the thing is uh they are identical. The other

[26:08] thing that we worked on is try to create um you know a bit more vertical

[26:13] striation in the thing. So we have some we have some brick elements. We've got

[26:18] so the red is brick. We've got some blue siding. Uh 4-in clapboard um would would

[26:24] be there. We did do have a mantar roof to wrap the entire thing but we did

[26:28] break it in in strategic points. We completely changed the design of the

[26:33] balconies. Previously, the balconies were um can't leave and written. They

[26:37] were tied back with some with some metal support rods and that seems to not fit

[26:41] the architecture of the town, sort of the New England nature of the town. So,

[26:44] we went with more of a porch look. These, this version has columns that go

[26:47] all the way down to the ground. And also, um it gives a chance to have some

[26:52] roofs on them. We do have this gable roof on the top, which uh a a big part

[26:56] of um the New England vernacular in general. And what you're trying to work

[27:01] with downtown is uh having bisecting roofs and having things to break that up

[27:05] because that gives us this element, a nice uh a nice shadow line and a nice

[27:09] way way to break that up. Those run across. Um we also uh you know, as you

[27:15] can see, we we have some the mant roof and it stops for the middle portion. So,

[27:20] um, we have some verticality differences there. And then, um, you know, color

[27:27] differences, some trim, the roofs, the balconies, the tower elements. And so,

[27:31] all all these things come together and kind of make it a lot more um what what

[27:35] what the what the goal was um in the um in the design regulations, which by the

[27:40] way, I will say, we read a lot of design regulations. Yours are extremely well

[27:44] written and extremely well uh illustrated. So what you're going for is

[27:49] clear and good job to the volunteer group that did that. Like it's really

[27:53] like uh a lot of thought was put into that. So if you want to go to the next

[27:57] slide. So this uh shows you what the ends of

[28:02] the building look like. Again, we can see that tower element that we have in

[28:05] building one that's on the left here. Uh that's that's a that's a bay that

[28:09] projects out um about a foot or 18 in that we see with the blue with the white

[28:13] siding on top. And oh, we another change we made that I forgot to point out. We

[28:18] went into design view board with um one over one double hung windows which is

[28:22] you know no divisions and now we're we're proposing six over one. Again

[28:26] another little nod towards a traditional New England vernacular there and we sort

[28:30] of um detailing the trim work around those windows and doors getting a lot

[28:35] more traditional what we have uh proposed and and versus what we had then

[28:40] and then um we are still honing some of that. So the next time we go to designer

[28:44] view board, we'll have even more detail on on how that looks and the drawings

[28:48] will have some shadow lines and be even a little clearer here, a little more

[28:51] conceptual uh tonight so we can get your feedback. But we're going to we're going

[28:54] to take that the next level before we meet with design board again. Uh and

[28:58] next slide. And this is building two, which again

[29:02] sort of shows you um a lot of similarities and and how it works for

[29:06] building one. And this is the next slide is just the uh the ends of the building

[29:10] again. and you can go to the next slide.

[29:15] » All right. So, before we get to this, if you don't mind, can you go back to the

[29:18] site plan? I apologize. I I forgot to talk about a pretty important critical

[29:22] element of the site plan. >> Um, thank you very much. So, yes,

[29:26] perfect. Um, so in this um view, obviously, you see our two residential

[29:31] buildings there kind of set in the back of the site. And then what we're showing

[29:34] here and what we're proposing to include as part of our our site plan application

[29:38] are uh two 2800 square foot uh commercial retail spaces which we would

[29:43] plan to stub out. Um but PY does not do commercial retail. Um so uh you know we

[29:51] have started to we we've been looking in the market and to be just honest we have

[29:56] not really found any any um uh dying interest to get involved with it from a

[30:01] commercial retail perspective. if it's a tough market right now just in general

[30:04] to agree into. So this is what we are including um in in as far as a um again

[30:10] the utilities we will stub out and design to but um right now we do not

[30:16] have a uh a direct use for those and so um what we've done is we've been talking

[30:22] with Richard and others in the town about potential options for that uh

[30:27] Liberty Lane space and you know PY is willing to um kind of coordinate with

[30:33] the town as far as kind of uh short-term, medium-term, long-term kind

[30:37] of activation and um um you know how we want to program that space. Um but

[30:42] again, from a planning board site plan application, this is what we're going to

[30:46] include, what our approach is to include in this with the idea that we the space

[30:51] can be flexible and we want to coordinate and work with the town on on

[30:54] what that might look like. And so, uh if you don't mind going back to where we

[30:58] were, I apologize. Um, so one thing that we had talked about is

[31:05] the potential to activate this space. And Richard, I know, do you mind talking

[31:09] a little bit about this because I know that this is where it would kind of be a

[31:13] transfer from U. PY to the municipality as far as kind of what that space looks

[31:18] like and how it's activated. Again, PY is um we're motivated and um, you know,

[31:23] look forward to working with the town on it. activating that space is going to

[31:27] benefit, you know, our homeowners as well. It's it's a benefit for everyone.

[31:30] And so that's why we wanted to coordinate with the town on kind of what

[31:33] ma might make sense there. >> Yeah. Thank you.

[31:37] So we talked about was that there's been particularly discussion with park and

[31:44] wreck about maybe doing some additional programming space or um actually they

[31:51] actually want you may not be aware of this necessarily

[31:55] but the the other property across the street 6 and 8 Liberty Lane which is the

[32:00] another vacant piece of property they've had an interest to be able to utilize

[32:06] that space for additional programming for outdoor space um a gamut of

[32:13] different activities to do it. Um but what we talked about was that you know

[32:19] that's somebody who really hasn't moved forward with anything on the property in

[32:23] terms of development wise whereas this site is coming forward and there could

[32:28] be an opportunity to program and to attract and and kind of quite frankly

[32:34] mimic what's going to be going on and is going on in Planeville where you know

[32:38] they have a an active space outdoor space for people

[32:42] to get together um activity wise and and they have the beer garden there and

[32:48] there's other things that seem to be uh rather popular. But also that this space

[32:55] could also be for instance we wanted to have

[32:58] ice skating there. You could have a pop-up ice skating rink be available as

[33:02] an activity. So trying to be creative. >> Do you mind going to the next slide real

[33:06] quick please? >> Yeah jump ahead. Sorry. Uh so you see

[33:09] ice skating rink. So, we kind of have a a plan of action to be able to kind of

[33:13] activate that space now. And with the because they like Essex said, they don't

[33:17] necessarily do commercial development. They're more residential to try to look

[33:22] for commercial developers are interested in partnering with them, but also with

[33:27] the town to kind of activate the space. The restaurant, as we know, and it's

[33:30] high on everyone's list from a community perspective. Um so we would again try to

[33:37] reach out to restaurant tours that want to come forward that we have a location

[33:41] for them in the center and maybe it builds towards a permanent restaurant

[33:47] there you know and help. So trying to be creative um and knowing that you know

[33:54] the challenges of trying to attract people to build a space because we don't

[33:59] understandably don't want to see an empty building

[34:03] but we also don't want to see empty space either. So it's something that

[34:07] hopefully that gets community support to be able creative to build with that

[34:12] space out front. >> Yeah.

[34:13] » This is or sorry >> just an interim solution essentially.

[34:16] So, like you were saying, Esica, we'd have our short-term, midterm and

[34:19] longterm. So, this could be something where we could get people to come to the

[34:22] downtown or maybe have an L runs on cake. You never know. Something, you

[34:26] know, like have more of that like container style, you know, a popup type

[34:30] thing or a little restaurants, food trucks, things like that to get people

[34:33] downtown. But then, like Rich mentioned the Planeville Square. Um, having like,

[34:37] you know, cornhole or whatever, like some some little like fun games to get

[34:41] people down there. And, um, I don't know about the wreck team. We probably don't

[34:44] want we don't want the recck department out there with a beer garden, but you

[34:47] know. >> No, no, no, no.

[34:49] » Absolutely. Right. No, they're not going to do a beer garden. But

[34:51] » and that's where, you know, we started to come up with some of those just to

[34:54] give context of the space. There's actually is a decent amount of space in

[34:57] there to to program. So, you can actually um get really creative with

[35:02] what opportunities um you know could be uh activated there.

[35:06] So this will be instead of the commercial buildings that you

[35:09] » uh well at least in the short term like you know and and you know that

[35:14] conversation would happen um you know essentially with the municipality and um

[35:18] you know in moving forward but that would be as of right now we don't have a

[35:23] commercial tenant or retail tenant. Um so that would be the initial short-term

[35:28] um approach. >> But then you'd still be committed to

[35:31] building the commercial building if you did find a tenant. Well, are you looking

[35:36] for somebody to come in and build >> someone would? Yeah. Like, so again, we

[35:39] would we would make it, you know, we'll call it quoteunquote pad ready. That can

[35:42] mean a number of different things and how it can what that final um you know,

[35:47] looks like, but we have the utilities stubbed out and the space ready, whether

[35:51] whether we end up grassing it and and ve putting some shrubs and you know, how

[35:55] how we end up finishing it, you know, in that short term, we can coordinate with

[35:59] the town and see what's most um you know, effective. So the earlier site

[36:03] plan that had the two commercial buildings there isn't actually what

[36:08] » you're proposing. >> That would be in our application. It's

[36:11] just a concept though. Yes. And we've looked at a couple different um kind of

[36:15] um uses for that space. We we did also sketch out a uh 100 seat restaurant

[36:20] which would fit in there. So that you know where we showed those two buildings

[36:24] again is just a an idea. U but there is opportunity. There is space there to fit

[36:29] a 100 space restaurant as well as one of those buildings. um you know uh in a

[36:33] variety of different things. >> And I know I mean this isn't really what

[36:35] you're here to talk about, but would that commercial space also be hooked

[36:38] into the wastewater system? >> Yep. And that was um part of the

[36:43] calculation that we did for what was left. Yeah. As far as availability.

[36:49] » Excellent. >> And so where it plays into now where you

[36:51] set because of the changes from May, you have some flexibility on how you

[36:57] could design and permit this. So it still has to be the commercial. So

[37:00] ultimately that's it's not commercialless. It's a

[37:06] word if you will. Um so >> no we can get creative and come up with

[37:10] » Yeah. But it's not they're not necessarily putting anything commercial

[37:13] there. >> No I no but I mean if somebody jumps

[37:18] forward right now they can certainly do it um sooner than later. It's just just

[37:23] trying to be conservative and think that we might not get somebody out of the

[37:26] gate necessarily to but have a plan so that there's a plan to act activate that

[37:33] space from the beginning. >> I I know you guys are here to get

[37:36] feedback on the architecture. So, >> well, no, it's everything site plan.

[37:40] » I want to dive into that a little more. Or I think maybe when you guys file

[37:43] permits just to get our heads a little more around

[37:46] » how how that actually worked, how it's ties in with how we envisioned the

[37:51] commercial components of downtown, etc. >> from an architectural perspective.

[37:57] » Not architectural. >> Oh, not architectural. Okay. But no,

[37:59] we're if you any feedback you've got um you know, honestly tonight. Yeah.

[38:03] » No, I mean I'm really not. I'm just responding in in real time. Okay. All

[38:07] right. And I think one of the So if you want to

[38:12] so it's going to be kind of fluid situation. I mean if you want to do

[38:16] another meeting to talk a little bit further before they get ready to hard

[38:19] and come in with a site plan we could do that too. So I mean you don't have to

[38:24] commit obviously. >> Yeah I totally understand that. But if

[38:27] you have some different thoughts certainly forward to making

[38:30] » yeah it's a little bit of a unique situation in that we are we're preparing

[38:33] it to be commercial retail ready. We're just not proposing to build that because

[38:37] we just don't have a tenant or anyone that's ready to build there. So, what we

[38:40] wanted to do was as opposed to coming forth with a a plan that may leave that

[38:45] empty, we wanted to develop a plan an approach with the town that could

[38:49] activate that space u in that short or medium-term in between before it becomes

[38:54] » looking to lease that property or would you be looking to sell that property to

[38:58] the owner? either uh you know we'd be open to it working with open to

[39:03] coordinating with the the town or or any you know future commercial retail

[39:07] tenant. I mean yeah the I mean the two things that jump into mind are one um

[39:13] you know is it is it more viable as a commercial space if you actually build

[39:18] something there and then go to lease out a building versus looking for a tenant

[39:22] and then building it. And then two, you know what I don't want is for this to be

[39:27] built as open space, be programmed for one or two summers, and then be sitting

[39:34] there empty. >> I think this is where the economic

[39:37] development corporation comes in. That's what we need in the town. So, it's part

[39:41] of the master plan. We can try to maybe work on that. I know you've wanted

[39:45] economic development forever. So, maybe we can figure this would probably be the

[39:48] perfect time to have something like that.

[39:50] My preference is straight to build. I I know there's been a couple of instances

[39:56] where business owners have looked at properties on uh in town center and they

[40:01] haven't been viable for whatever reasons and that's moved them outside of the

[40:05] town to you know open up their shops. And so if there was something available

[40:09] and it was already built that would have been a no-brainer for them. So in my

[40:13] mind you might not be finding people right now but I think if you build it

[40:17] they will come. Well, it's also the builder. You need to find a builder who

[40:20] will build it. >> Yeah. And and then you lose your

[40:24] flexibility for what that next, you know, opportunity could be if if you you

[40:29] know, you're built to fit.

[40:33] » So, it could that's a fair point. I mean, there could

[40:37] be a couple variations because there's actually, you know, you saw the two two

[40:42] pad version of this. There's actually a three pad version of this as well that

[40:45] you had looked at previously. But for me, that goes more to what the B1 was uh

[40:50] kind of putting together. That's more of like what the master plan's trying to

[40:54] do. And that's more towards like the tax incentive that we're trying to build,

[40:58] you know, take off the burden off the citizen and put the burden onto the

[41:02] business from a tax perspective. So, I mean, we're ticking a lot of boxes

[41:07] by putting in more of these locations for businesses to go in. Not putting it

[41:11] in now feels like a a miss in my mind. What if what if the data suggests those

[41:18] buildings are empty for a like

[41:24] for economic development purposes, you really only look at a 10-year horizon

[41:28] for the entirety of the 10 years. >> I think that's

[41:33] show me the data and I'll make a different decision. But

[41:38] » I agree. >> Yeah. So with this sort of stuff when

[41:42] you try to build this up and we've done this in cities and towns before um it

[41:47] comes down to foot traffic which we simply don't have

[41:49] » but we're building it >> no that's not enough that's

[41:54] » but we do have the village at Norfolk meeting house like it's it is being

[41:57] built you know >> it's being built and there's a there's a

[42:00] lot of future there um and I would absolutely prefer buildings um but you

[42:05] know I also work in the seapport which is super hot right now and also

[42:10] surrounded by empty >> retail space, right? Because that's just

[42:13] that's just the way it is right now. It's just a it's a weird world.

[42:17] » Um >> I'm also thinking of the transient

[42:19] traffic from the commuter rail as well. I mean, it's a perfect location for a

[42:23] business. >> Yeah. No, I absolutely agree. Um that

[42:28] that's my that's my preference as well. But I I think that in um if if there's

[42:33] an option to take some or I mean ideally not all but some of that space and and

[42:39] have some sort of a community focused activation. I think what's happening in

[42:43] Planeville has been a hit. You know it's only been open it's not been open long

[42:47] enough to say like that's a hit forever but that sort of space seems to be

[42:51] » I I'm out of the loop on what's going on there.

[42:54] » Well Betsy has a link. Do you want to pull that up for the Planeville Square?

[42:57] » Give me Keep on talking. >> It's awesome. So Jeff Kenny, the author

[43:01] of Diary of a Wimpy Kid, bought all of that space downtown and has an amazing

[43:06] plan for it. And some of it's going to be brick and mortar,

[43:08] » and some of it's going to be more of like pop-up shops, more like modern

[43:12] container style. >> It hasn't been built yet, but that's the

[43:15] plan. Some of it's open and built, the beer,

[43:18] » those container ones are, and that's where the beer garden is. Really cool

[43:21] little area. Um, >> also has that concentrated population

[43:26] already, >> right? What? No, not that

[43:29] » downtown's No, their downtown isn't >> I I didn't even know that was their

[43:33] downtown until my friend and Bloomfield told me.

[43:36] » Um, >> but yeah, so Betsy has the link to pull

[43:41] it up, but it's um the whole design from they have it has its own website with

[43:44] what they're planning and part of it is what um and and so Gary and I were in

[43:48] that meeting with Essex. So that's when he's saying some people it's it was us.

[43:51] So that's people who are trying, you know, we have the same goals as you

[43:54] guys. Um, but we were thinking for phase one if we could get creative and do

[43:58] something like that and then midterm or longterm is the buildings. But maybe

[44:02] maybe this is like a proof of concept when Betsy pulls it up, but like see

[44:05] those little the area up top there. Um you know where I don't know if that's

[44:09] food trucks or containers or whatever, but like something up there.

[44:12] » Um or an ice rink, but if we have an area there, maybe that can be a proof of

[44:16] concept for small businesses to be like, you know, build up their business and

[44:19] then be like, oh, you know, talk to the owners like we I actually need like, you

[44:23] know, maybe half of that building, then maybe we can, you know, divide it in

[44:26] half and make sure that it's going to be filled. It's just it's it derisks the

[44:30] project from a construction perspective if you have that. But I think we could

[44:33] also give those business owners like you're talking about Chris that have

[44:36] left the town because there was nowhere to go. Give them an opportunity to have

[44:39] a lowcost rental situation for now. >> I also do hear what you're saying. We

[44:43] can definitely com uh do some digging for some data and bring some you know

[44:47] data to support kind of each of those different segments short, medium and

[44:51] long-term kind of approaches to it and what that's what what our thought

[44:54] process is and what it's coming from >> cuz I mean the other boxes that you're

[44:58] ticking are water and sewer which have been the other reasons why people

[45:02] haven't been developing in the center of town and you're scoring on both of

[45:05] those. So like to me it just it seems like a no-brainer. going to show her

[45:09] where. >> Sorry, I sent you in the link and I

[45:12] didn't tell you where. >> I would be interested in sort of a

[45:15] combination of the two. As a small business owner in town, um I have no

[45:19] intention of ever opening a bakery. I don't want to I don't want to be owned

[45:23] by a building and I think I'd have to charge like a million dollars for a

[45:26] custom cake. But if there was like a popup space that was a container that I

[45:32] could work out of for a month or however long and you could have small business

[45:36] owners like me who are say a cottage bakery or whatever crafter but don't

[45:41] want to support a brick and mortar. That would be really enticing for like a

[45:46] farmers market type of small business as opposed to like a brick and mortar type

[45:51] of thing >> like a restaurant owner.

[45:54] » But that would need something to be built. this one.

[45:57] » Even if it's just like the container, >> right?

[46:00] » Like if there was a couple of the container things and a building

[46:02] » sales are for actually baking for sale. Okay. So that makes sense. Yeah.

[46:09] » Okay. So that's >> that's the one in Planeville if anyone

[46:12] hasn't seen the >> Yeah. So a couple things that you that

[46:15] were scrolled through as well showed kind of like an indoor space where you

[46:19] could have similar as well. I'm assuming like multiple shops inside.

[46:22] » Yeah. They have actual buildings that are going to be built. I think this was

[46:25] more like the shortterm if I had to guess from a planning perspective

[46:28] short-term just get people out, get people downtown and you know open up

[46:31] some of these businesses and they had the outdoor area which is amazing for

[46:34] the summer. So it was probably more of a timing thing and then also those really

[46:38] pretty buildings that they'll be building going forward.

[46:41] » Yeah. Outside of this specific conversation, if we talk about economic

[46:45] development committee work versus economic development corporation work,

[46:50] corporations are usually the ones that go and find the funding to build the

[46:53] things, right? Because they know what the need is and then they take that like

[46:57] Moses was saying, they derisk for the developer to say,

[47:00] » you know, it's like, hey, don't worry about that. We have this covered and we

[47:04] will go find the people. But those are like next steps, future state um stuff I

[47:09] guess I have to work on. Yeah, >> I'll help you.

[47:13] » I mean, my only concern stems from, you know, the current state of what I've

[47:17] seen from the wreck department, right? We've got the the old park that was

[47:22] slated to be a walking path that's nothing now. We've got the park at Pawn

[47:26] Street that's in disrepair, but we've gone and approved a uh pickle ball uh

[47:33] stadium, let's call it. Um, you know, >> court.

[47:38] It's obscuring like the rest of the park, right? Like to meet a a need of

[47:43] design change and approach and all of that stuff. But we've got sheds on that

[47:47] property that are in disrepair. We've got fences that are broken. We've got an

[47:51] old skate park that turned into a urinal. I mean, I don't necessarily

[47:55] trust them to be able to manage this. >> No, totally understand. So, that was

[47:59] just an example. I wouldn't get too hyperfocused on like the idea of a park

[48:03] and rack. The idea is community space. So, for instance, if you had a downtown

[48:06] association, they could work on getting a baker down there. They could go have a

[48:11] holiday stroll. They could have different type of things that people

[48:15] could come, which kind of leads to one of the things that we kind of talked

[48:18] about before. And we need to kind of move up on the

[48:22] timeline of business improvement district because a business improvement

[48:25] district captures some of the revenue as the student development happens, which

[48:29] then can fund downtown activities, could be outreach, you know what I mean? So it

[48:33] it's more like having a downtown. It's almost like the

[48:37] an organization that's going to do that kind of program in that space cuz you

[48:41] don't Yeah. It's not I just use them as an example.

[48:45] » Yeah. I mean that just requires a a bunch of human capital people who are

[48:49] interested in doing it. Um as well as you know somebody in the government

[48:53] who's going to help oversee it and all of that stuff. It's it's yet another

[48:56] committee at the end of the day. Right. So it's more bureaucracy it's more

[48:59] process. it's it's more waiting at the end of the day, right? So, um again, my

[49:05] concern there. Additionally, we're talking about things that are going to

[49:09] require some sort of funding at some point and we're in a huge deficit at

[49:13] this point in time, right? There's a lot of concerns around money and all of that

[49:16] stuff. We're looking to generate revenue from taxes, from businesses, and this

[49:20] doesn't necessarily tick that box because this becomes a state or a town

[49:24] sponsored activity. >> Not necessarily. It could be potentially

[49:28] » you pay for that space. >> Yeah. you and there's also a ton of

[49:30] grants to have a tenth there, >> right? But it's not from the order of

[49:34] magnitudes of what you would expect from a tenant that's paying actually property

[49:39] taxes on that from the value property tax.

[49:42] » So you're still operating it at a deficit. You're subsidizing it.

[49:46] » Well, yeah. Or or or you get nothing for a period of time.

[49:49] » So, you know, so I think when they get ready to come in and submit the site

[49:52] plan, one of the things they're going to prepare for you all as part of the

[49:55] permanent process is a fiscal analysis. Yeah.

[49:58] » So part of that fiscal analysis there'll be commercial component but part of the

[50:03] other fiscal analysis be you know 100 condominiums that are going to be sold

[50:10] on the market as one >> which I've been told aren't enough from

[50:13] a foot traffic perspective to warrant a restaurant. So I mean we're having the

[50:17] circular conversation about >> restaurant is or other bigger required

[50:22] foot foot traffic than >> than a popup. Well, what I was going to

[50:26] say, what I was kind of leading towards was saying the site is vacant right now,

[50:30] right? >> So, the tax revenue is generating is

[50:33] certainly not anywhere near what it could be as

[50:36] » 100%. I'm not saying no to the property development. I love the idea of the

[50:40] property development. I think the architectural looks smart. I like the

[50:42] way that the grading is working in the favor of everything. I'm having a

[50:47] contention around the two buildings being there at day one or not. Right.

[50:50] That's my concern. >> Yeah. and and and we can definitely um

[50:54] do again the fiscal analysis but also do some more analysis on kind of the state

[50:58] of of commercial retail um you know locally and and you know more regionally

[51:03] as far as and balancing that with kind of a short-term medium-term approach and

[51:07] a plan and see what makes sense. >> Yeah. And additionally, is this being

[51:11] planned as a one-story uh building if it was something that

[51:14] » we had what we had put together is we had looked at something that was more

[51:17] like a two and a half story similar to the Walgreens and the the building

[51:21] direct next door. It kind of provides that step up to the buildings behind it,

[51:24] you know, from a pedestrian streetscape scale. So that was kind of what we would

[51:29] have would envision something. >> And so ideally it could be something

[51:32] where it's, you know, it's retail on the first floor and then you have offices or

[51:35] similar on the top. I I guess that's why I'd have to look dig into the zoning to

[51:39] see what But in theory, yeah, we there's a space potentially for that. Yes.

[51:43] » Well, it could be mixed use still, right? Even though we're separating the

[51:46] two, it could still be >> they wouldn't be responsible for it.

[51:48] We'd have to have somebody else do it. But yes,

[51:51] » yes. >> So, potentially. Yes.

[51:55] » Certainly mixed use minus residential because they'd be maxing out

[52:01] their >> Right. That's residential this.

[52:03] » That's the key. >> Oh, right. So it would have to be

[52:06] office, >> right? Yeah.

[52:07] » Yeah. >> What? Why?

[52:09] » Because they're maxing out their residential capacity on the two

[52:12] buildings for the >> Didn't we We took out the percentages,

[52:14] right? >> Yeah. There's ac the acreage per acre.

[52:18] » Oh, gotcha. >> Yeah. The density.

[52:21] » Okay. >> Well, there's your co-working space.

[52:24] » That's the co-work. >> Yeah.

[52:26] » Yeah. I think there's other opportunities that we should look into

[52:29] from that perspective at least. So, Richard, we got some work to do with you

[52:33] to to >> One other thing I want you to work on is

[52:35] the gas. I know you like this all electric, which I kind

[52:37] » That was the one question I did, right? Like, why no natural gas knowing that

[52:41] it's available at the center of town? >> I'm like,

[52:43] » it's I'm sorry. I don't mean to laugh. I only laugh because it's

[52:47] 95% of the time you go into a town, you know, you're talking, it's it's um

[52:52] everything all electric is preferred and and um

[52:56] » electrically killing us. We bring gas. Yeah. I mean the past past 5 years

[53:02] electricity prices are through the roof right now. I know gas isn't necessarily,

[53:05] you know, all too different, but at the same time, like we can't bring gas all

[53:10] throughout the town if it's not inching across the property lines, you know.

[53:13] » Yeah. Um, as of right now, our our our plan and our approach is to to continue

[53:18] building all electric. It's just um, you know,

[53:21] » you're providing gas fireplaces in the back and gas grills.

[53:25] » And they would be Well, they're the the grills would be propane. Yeah.

[53:28] » Right. Yep. Yep. >> Feels like a missed opportunity.

[53:31] » Feels like a long stretch of gas for a girl.

[53:34] » I hear you. I hear you. But still like >> Yeah. Yeah.

[53:38] » So restaurants >> a restaurant would prefer gas 100%.

[53:43] » I I don't disagree with that. I I need that.

[53:45] » But I mean at this time I'm assuming the gas is at the street level here. So that

[53:49] wouldn't be too The gas is on main street. It's it's a decent stretch down.

[53:54] » Decent it's a decent stretch down. >> So there's the answer. It's a cost issue

[54:00] » and and to be honest with you now that was initially we like I said we met with

[54:03] on this probably two years ago initially and we did um we did reach out to I

[54:08] can't remember if it's ever source or national grid at this point but um

[54:12] » now everything that we're doing you know from across all of our trade working

[54:15] with the state everything is everything's all electric it's um

[54:17] » I know there's a huge push for it and >> I do understand perspective we're

[54:23] screwing the >> yes

[54:25] » maybe are you going to do any solar Do you think?

[54:28] » No, we don't. There's not just not enough room on our roofs um because all

[54:32] the equipment for the all electric goes up on the roof.

[54:34] » So, the amount of we we looked at it and the what the actual space after you get

[54:39] past safety regulations as far as fall distance from the edge of the roof and

[54:43] the distance from the equipment on the uh the mechanical equipment on the roof,

[54:47] the amount of space that's available for a solar array, it's just not financially

[54:51] feas. tried renting out leasing out our roof space in a project in Wuburn to a

[54:55] solar provider and we looked into it. It just wasn't worth it.

[54:58] » It's also would stretch energy code you no one's going to spend a lot of

[55:04] money on electric in a build. You have to have now you have to have vents.

[55:09] They're so closed in with and so airtight that you have to have vents to

[55:13] go out. It's almost too tight now. It's crazy. So it's but it's also helpful for

[55:18] utility bills. does keep it does help with the electric bill from that

[55:20] perspective and you're more efficient but

[55:23] » sure um so we have some conversations to have on the program but just before we

[55:29] go and I know that we are probably above our time already but from a site plan

[55:34] perspective we talked a lot about that activation the program on Liberty Lane

[55:38] but you know generally from our site plan perspective I didn't get a ton of

[55:42] feedback or comment so I think that we'll probably feel that we'll move

[55:46] forward with that general site plan um for the residential piece and we'll work

[55:50] with Richard on um you know kind of how we work through the the piece along

[55:54] Liberty in the commercial retail space and and uh as far as what our

[55:58] application looks like. >> Yeah, I'm comfortable with that. I think

[56:01] the only other comment I would have is make sure that the um fire chief does

[56:05] take a look at this just you know from an access perspective.

[56:09] » Yep. And as you showed that to Gary and I when we were in the meeting, the

[56:13] design of it and I didn't give you feedback because I wanted it to go to

[56:16] design review and they would give you their feedback and it's exactly what I

[56:19] expected and I think it looks so much better.

[56:22] » Definitely. >> That's Dan and his team and that. Yeah.

[56:24] No, absolutely. Um it was a great conversation uh that we had with them

[56:28] and so um we haven't they haven't seen that

[56:31] » next version yet, but we look forward to sharing with them and continuing to um

[56:36] you know uh you know move forward. >> Even the colors too. I mean I'm not an

[56:39] architect. which I know some of the people on Design Review are and they're

[56:42] very good at it. Um, but even just the colors, they're more kind of New England

[56:46] colonial. I think they'll appreciate that.

[56:48] » Um, and then the brick is always nice. >> Yeah, the brick does look red, white,

[56:53] and blue, right? >> Yeah.

[56:55] » Yeah. But no, I do it looks I like it a lot now.

[56:58] » Great. Thank you. And just to close out, I'm not opposed to having some sort of

[57:03] community aspect to this. I just want to make sure that we're not leaving, you

[57:06] know, tax dollars on the table here that we could be benefiting from, especially

[57:11] if that's something that the uh town's been very adamant about, especially

[57:15] within this area of town >> and and we'll be prepared to have a more

[57:20] full conversation on that at our, you know, an application. We'll have some

[57:24] the financial an analysis as well as some of the other documentation to go

[57:28] » and then when time comes, we'll have traffic studies and all of that stuff as

[57:31] well. >> Yep. Awesome.

[57:34] Appreciate it. >> Great. Thank you very much. Thank you

[57:37] very much. Thank you. >> All right,

[57:42] that was our 645. We've got a 7:15 interview. Stephen,

[57:46] » I'm sorry. >> Actually, we have a 7 p.m. first.

[57:48] » 7 p.m. first. Woo. All right. 90929600 and 100 RPO streets. Modification of

[57:54] previously approved site plan and storm water management permit for the proposed

[57:56] construction of a large scale ground mounted photo solar voltaic system.

[58:02] How we doing? >> Doing great. That was a fun conversation

[58:05] for me. I got my masters in urban planning with a emphasis on placemaking

[58:10] around rail. So this was >> that was everything for you then.

[58:13] » So I've been entertained. Thanks guys. >> That's great.

[58:16] » Appreciate your patience. Thank you. >> Um yeah. So um we've been visiting you

[58:21] guys on this project, this specific rendition of this project since

[58:25] » Just reintroduce yourself for everybody on TV.

[58:28] » My name is Daniel Serber. I'm the director of development with NextG Grid.

[58:32] Um the first time here is Chris Seawall. He is our new project manager of

[58:36] construction. Um that's kind of going to lead the charge to get this project on

[58:41] track from a SWIP perspective. Um and we will show you some pictures. We've made

[58:46] a long way since just two weeks ago. Um we hired a new construction company. Uh

[58:52] so now we're working with a company called Helios and Zane um construction.

[58:57] Um Chris will tell you about that and walk you through a SWIP response report

[59:01] just so you can see our progress. I know um ZBA's been very interested. Um but uh

[59:08] one of the big things you guys have been waiting for is the hazard mitigation

[59:12] analysis report which uh was finally in and uh fully approved by your peer

[59:18] reviewer Jensen and Hughes. Um so you know they were color coding our

[59:23] responses and we had some yellows outstanding. Now, now we're fully green.

[59:27] Um, and so that has been approved. Um, you know, I know it took a while. It's

[59:32] not from lack of trying. I want you guys to know, you know, the HMAs weren't

[59:36] required when we've been submitted this. And since then, Massachusetts adopted

[59:40] the new National Electric Code, which made the HMA um required and and you

[59:45] know, we decided to go ahead and provide that. Um, and it's the first one we've

[59:50] been through. So, um, glad to get that under our belts and get that over to you

[59:54] guys. So, um I know that was the last thing on the battery side you guys were

[59:58] waiting for and you know I'll give you the opportunity to comment on that and

[1:00:05] tell me if you if you don't want me to go through the SWIP report um and leave

[1:00:09] that to the ZBA tell me and we'll get on our way faster. It's up to you guys.

[1:00:14] » I'd love to see the updated photos. I've driven past the site several times. I've

[1:00:17] seen the additional fencing. I've seen the um additional material keeping all

[1:00:21] the uh debris inside. I haven't seen the um dust mitigation. Um but it doesn't

[1:00:27] look as bad as it used to. Um so I think we just go through the photos real

[1:00:33] quick, see what's changed. >> I would actually like to I don't want to

[1:00:38] just breeze right over it. If we could actually get a little detail on this.

[1:00:42] » Yeah, I'll let I'll let Chris comment on the specific pictures and the things

[1:00:45] we've >> Yeah, definitely. So, um like Daniel

[1:00:49] mentioned, we have Zayn out there. they're they're working to address the

[1:00:52] uh the outstanding issues. Um with anything SWIP related is obviously we're

[1:00:57] addressing what's what's going on today, but also it's an ongoing process um

[1:01:01] throughout the rest of the construction of the site. So,

[1:01:05] um, they've they've been working out there, um, you know, last week, this

[1:01:10] week. Um, we plan to have everything that's on the SWIP report fully

[1:01:14] addressed, um, by the end of the week. Um, with, you know, if we could get some

[1:01:19] more rain out there, more of the grass could could take hold, that would be

[1:01:22] wonderful for everybody. But, uh, at least as far as stabilizing the site,

[1:01:26] um, you know, we're looking to have that done by Thursday. maybe it would spill

[1:01:30] onto Friday for for having everything uh currently outstanding addressed. Um so

[1:01:36] they were out there uh installing new rolls of silt fence, making sure it's

[1:01:40] properly keyed into the ground, you know, fully 6 in down so that when it

[1:01:43] does rain, the water doesn't just wash it out.

[1:01:45] » Sorry, are are you guys controlling the slideshow or is it

[1:01:49] » which one? >> Oh, that's

[1:01:52] you can start moving through the pictures. Thanks. So they uh picture one

[1:01:56] is new silt fence that was um or existing sil fence that was restored and

[1:02:00] maintained. They added in new um silt sock in front of those fenced areas

[1:02:07] staking it in place. Um go to the next slide. I think we have one. Um here

[1:02:14] they're they were in the woods today pulling out some of the silt that had

[1:02:18] gone past the fence while they were repairing the existing lines. Um, you

[1:02:23] can see here this has been rekeyed in um to make sure that water isn't going to

[1:02:28] to penetrate underneath it anymore. Um, yeah. So, that top left is an area of

[1:02:35] the woods that had had silt on top of it. They were out there um getting that

[1:02:39] all shoveled out. Same with the bottom right picture as well. Uh, kind of that

[1:02:44] same same woods area that water had uh had overrun the fences before. Um

[1:02:53] uh this is a section here kind of at the front of the site in front of one of the

[1:02:56] retention basins. Um making sure that any of that water that's coming down in

[1:03:00] this section in particular some of the site roads um going down the hill where

[1:03:05] water likes to to run faster and pick up some sediment. Uh making sure the silt

[1:03:09] sock and uh that silt fence that you can kind of see right behind it um that was

[1:03:14] all rekeyed in today um to make sure that that is solid. Um, I think we still

[1:03:20] have a couple more photos if we keep going.

[1:03:23] Um, the area

[1:03:28] top right I believe is the area um where the cell tower access road is in front

[1:03:34] above that. Um, they just added in a whole actually that's still above the uh

[1:03:40] the basin there. Um, repaired all that. They added in a whole se new section of

[1:03:44] sil fence in front of where the old tower access road was. um because there

[1:03:48] had been some some water getting getting around there before. Um

[1:03:54] the two bottom right photo or two bottom photos are on the um I guess it's kind

[1:04:00] of the northeast side on Pond Street where that that final um final basin is

[1:04:05] before the the water leaves the site. um replacing the the silt socks in that um

[1:04:12] in the catch basin to make sure that the uh the sediment that it has caught has

[1:04:16] been removed and that there's new new controls in place that have capacity to

[1:04:21] to take up any silt that that gets down there.

[1:04:25] » See some grass coming in which is nice. >> Yeah, it's it's starting

[1:04:29] » the optimist >> here and there. Um it is it is starting

[1:04:33] to come in. Um they they're one of the things that

[1:04:38] they're still going to finish up uh later this week is to bring in more more

[1:04:42] hay and more um straw mats to help um stabilize while we are waiting for more

[1:04:48] of that grass seed to come in and kind of make sure we're tackling the problem

[1:04:52] further up on the slope before it actually is getting down to where kind

[1:04:56] of our our sill fence and our that's our last line of defense. We need to make

[1:05:00] sure we're we're slowing it down beforehand.

[1:05:03] Um, if you can keep going, I don't remember exactly how many pictures are

[1:05:07] are in the report. Um, bottom right is the construction entrance. Um, there's

[1:05:13] not really any issues there anymore. Um, no no mutter or silt is making it out to

[1:05:19] the road through through all that significant rip wrap um, portion

[1:05:25] and just more more straw and and hay going down to uh to help stabilize the

[1:05:30] site. keep going.

[1:05:34] Um,

[1:05:37] uh, one of the things was making sure that the the sign, the Nifty's, um,

[1:05:42] permit sign was posted. So, that's up. >> That's huge. Like, I hadn't seen that at

[1:05:46] all throughout the entire >> Not sure why that wasn't up before. Um,

[1:05:51] Daniel said, I I just started with Next Grid about a week ago. Um, but certainly

[1:05:56] we we uh will stay on top of all this. Um, so this is just kind of a view of

[1:06:02] the site from the uh the street here. Um, going up that construction entrance.

[1:06:08] » I think even just having the fencing on the property now as you're looking over

[1:06:11] from the street as you're driving by really helps,

[1:06:14] » you know, define the area of the property that's being addressed here.

[1:06:18] And obviously, there's going to be new plantings and grasses and things that

[1:06:21] are growing back to cover the space. So, I'm hoping that those that are watching

[1:06:25] online and those the immense group that we have here in front of us uh are

[1:06:29] appreciating that as well. >> Yes. So, the the like you said, there's

[1:06:34] the fence all the way across the the front of the site. Um that's all

[1:06:39] currently still temporary fence, but there's also ongoing everyday more

[1:06:43] progress onto the permanent sight fence. Um and once once that permanent sight

[1:06:48] fence is in place, um some of these storm water controls are going to move

[1:06:52] in front of the fence um to make sure that they're accessible for um for

[1:06:56] checking and maintaining during the the rest of the course of this project.

[1:07:00] » Yeah. And additionally, the the neighboring property, the auto body

[1:07:03] shops, no longer parking on the property proper anymore. They're actually off

[1:07:08] onto their own property instead of extending into yours on

[1:07:13] » the shared property at this point.

[1:07:17] Uh next page. Uh so this is more along the I guess the

[1:07:25] southeast side. Uh this was a whole new section. This is in front of where the

[1:07:30] uh the tower access is. A whole new section of sil fest that goes in and

[1:07:34] curves around and goes kind of up the slope to make sure that no water can get

[1:07:38] by. This one wasn't quite adequate enough to uh to capture that corner. Um

[1:07:47] and uh the ones on the bottom are just as as you continue up up that sight

[1:07:51] line. Um just adding in more silt sock tow uh keying in um repairs on the the

[1:07:58] silt fence. >> Next slide, please.

[1:08:05] Um, this is once again closer to Pawn Street on the uh on the retainage basin

[1:08:13] side of things. Um, so part of what we're looking to do is

[1:08:20] is to look at getting some of the um some of the material removed out of the

[1:08:25] bottom of those basins to make sure that anything that has been trapped there um

[1:08:29] gets removed so that there's still the sufficient capacity to to capture the

[1:08:33] storm water.

[1:08:38] Uh, next slide. >> I think that's it. All right. Yeah.

[1:08:44] Is this all of your work from the past week that you've been at?

[1:08:49] » Yeah, for for the the swift stuff. Yes. >> Wow.

[1:08:52] » A lot of it was repairs. So, it's not all brand new, but you can see that

[1:08:56] they've >> Yeah, the stuff we got green is is new

[1:09:00] and kind of the stuff that's old and faded is is from previous, but um yeah,

[1:09:05] Zayn's been hitting it real hard to uh to make sure that we we get it brought

[1:09:09] to where it needs to be. Well, >> we appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah.

[1:09:12] Great. I drove by and I saw the uh sign. I was

[1:09:16] like, "Wow." >> Just the little things.

[1:09:19] » The little things make us happy. >> So now, just for clarification, you're

[1:09:25] is he

[1:09:29] swapping out with the other previous person that was from next on on the

[1:09:33] site? >> No, Christian is still with us and he's

[1:09:35] still going to he still spends a lot of time there. And and Scott is still our

[1:09:38] VP of construction. He's still with us. >> Landon, what? Uh Landon is still with

[1:09:43] Next Grid. He's not spending as much time on this project in particular.

[1:09:46] » Okay. >> Um

[1:09:48] » and then Zayn is working directly for Next Grid to do the

[1:09:53] » So we we have a new group. We'll introduce the ZBA to next week called

[1:09:57] Helios. They work with us on a ton of projects and and I know some people on

[1:10:01] your ZBA board are actually familiar with them from other jobs of their life.

[1:10:06] Um so we've had a lot of success with them. They're taking over as the GC and

[1:10:11] Zayn is their civil subcontractor. >> Okay. And then Capital, like you

[1:10:16] mentioned, is not doing the construction anymore,

[1:10:18] » right? Capital's completely off the job or

[1:10:22] » uh Yeah. >> Yeah. Just making sure.

[1:10:24] » Well, they still have some equipment on the job, but it's in the process of

[1:10:26] changing over to to Helios and Zane. >> Okay.

[1:10:34] So, when you said you expect this work to be complete by the end of this week,

[1:10:38] » the SWIP stuff um addressed right now the schedule says Thursday. I say the

[1:10:42] end of the week just to in case something goes wrong, we got we get an

[1:10:45] extra day there.

[1:10:49] But at the speed they've been going so far, you know, Thursday seems like it's

[1:10:53] probably a good bet. And I I haven't had an opportunity to go

[1:10:59] back out and look at it since I a little bit. So, it's prior to vacation, so I

[1:11:03] certainly like to go out and take a peek.

[1:11:06] » Yeah, definitely. Let let us know. We'll make sure that either myself or or

[1:11:09] Christian, someone's available on site to to walk you through.

[1:11:15] » And as you said, this is this is the first step to to correcting the issue,

[1:11:20] but we obviously need to maintain this for the rest of the project. So, it's by

[1:11:25] no means are when we say we're done Thursday, are we done managing SWIP?

[1:11:30] It's it's an ongoing process until we are, you know, fully seated and

[1:11:34] vegetated at the edge of the end of the project.

[1:11:37] » Yeah. I mean, I I hope you will be paying as much attention to this as you

[1:11:43] clearly have the past couple weeks going forward.

[1:11:46] » We will.

[1:11:51] It's certainly very

[1:11:56] » Yeah, it's it's this project is my highest priority right now. So we we

[1:12:01] will stay on top of it. Okay.

[1:12:07] » So is there any additional questions for about the battery or SWIP or

[1:12:14] » looking at the hazard mitigation plan? Um couple contradictions in here just

[1:12:20] with regards to which NFPA um you're adhering towards. You've

[1:12:25] mentioned 2020 in here a couple times. You've got 2023 in here. um it kind of

[1:12:30] makes it difficult to go back and forth between the citations and making sure

[1:12:33] that they're correct and you're pulling from the right ones. So, that's

[1:12:36] something that I would want resolved. It's not something that's necessarily

[1:12:40] going to keep us from making a decision or anything, but I will provide some

[1:12:43] notes um to Rich that he can share with you guys. There's a couple of other

[1:12:48] areas where things are just typed wrong, right? Um, ANC7535,

[1:12:53] it's Z535. Uh, fur control instead of for control, cabinet penal instead of

[1:12:59] panel. Um, so some typos, little things like that. Um, you called out 144 cells

[1:13:05] at one point, but it's 114 cells. Um, so little things like that um need to be

[1:13:12] just kind of uh addressed as well. Um,

[1:13:26] See, yeah, I'm happy to put this into an

[1:13:30] email and have that shared across.

[1:13:35] There's like some questions around the UL9540 listing as well. Um, that's

[1:13:41] mostly from the product level because the product doesn't say it's

[1:13:44] specifically 9540, but it does list the internal as 9540. The outside is UL1973

[1:13:50] as they describe it. So, that's just something that should get rectified as

[1:13:54] well. Um, freeze protection as well. There's

[1:13:59] that 7 kW heater that everything kind of like would fail on if we did have to

[1:14:04] suppress and put water into it in the winter or anything like that. So, like

[1:14:08] what's the backup plan for that? There's nothing called out specifically for it.

[1:14:12] Um,

[1:14:18] distance from the containers to the surrounding tree lines not stated.

[1:14:30] Carbon monoxide is mentioned, but hydrogen fluoride is not. But hydrogen

[1:14:34] fluoride is typically what governs the toxic consequence modeling for lithium

[1:14:38] ion phosphate thermal runway. So that should be addressed in there as well.

[1:14:47] And then um what were we doing with water on the property as well? There's

[1:14:53] no hydrant. >> There's a hydron at at the street.

[1:14:56] » There's a hydrant at the street. What was the distance? You remember? It's

[1:15:00] sufficient that Chief was confident he could get a hose out to it and

[1:15:03] everything, right? >> Yeah, he is. Okay. I'm looking to see

[1:15:08] » because there's not one on site, per se. >> Not on site specifically. No, but the

[1:15:14] hydrogen is they're actually using the hydrogen right now to fill the

[1:15:20] the uh water truck. >> The water truck.

[1:15:22] » Okay.

[1:15:25] » Let's see.

[1:15:31] Yeah. And then another little thing is like page nine's placing the container

[1:15:35] the battery containers 200 ft southwest of Pond Street, but then the table on

[1:15:39] page uh table one on page 11 is saying it's 118 ft to the nearest public way.

[1:15:44] So that needs to get figured out.

[1:15:54] But these again, these seem like more like clerical just inconsistencies that

[1:15:59] just need to be addressed.

[1:16:04] And so looks like we're all on this email

[1:16:09] anyway. Um, so Rich, should I just reply all and send this?

[1:16:16] » Don't reply all. >> Should just reply to you.

[1:16:18] » Yes, please. as noted during our meeting.

[1:16:23] » I did. All right. So, Rich has that now. >> Great.

[1:16:27] » Okay. I know that Melissa earlier today had asked a question to fire chief. I

[1:16:32] don't know a chance to take a look his response.

[1:16:35] » Yeah. I don't know if you guys did. It was just today. I sent it to Betsy in

[1:16:38] case you want to put it on the screen, Bets. the um my question that I had at

[1:16:43] the last meeting when I was asking about secondary containment. My fear was that

[1:16:48] if there was um and of course all the experts have said very very very

[1:16:52] unlikely that we'd have a catastrophic right catastrophic failure but in the

[1:16:58] case that there is right um the F500 encapsulator that the chief mentioned he

[1:17:03] would use to flood >> the um the container. I was like, "Okay,

[1:17:08] so the F500 itself is eco-friendly and it's biodegradable, but what happens

[1:17:13] when it's encaps encapsulating something that's hazardous material or hazardous

[1:17:17] whatever, right?" And where we have the storm water right at the bottom of that

[1:17:21] hill, I was afraid that it would, you know, in my mind this would overflow and

[1:17:26] it would go down the hill and now it's in the storm water basin and now it's in

[1:17:29] the ground. Um, and so I reached out to the chief and just said, "Can you just

[1:17:33] basically put my mind at ease or tell me that I'm that you think I'm right?" you

[1:17:36] know, either way. Um, but can you just let me know your thoughts on this from

[1:17:40] all of your training that you've gone through? And, um, obviously I'm not I'm

[1:17:43] not a firefighter, so I don't know what it's like to use F500 and, you know,

[1:17:46] spray it into an enclosed container and all that. Um, so he wrote back and I

[1:17:51] sent the message to Betsy, um, cuz I think it was it was very very very well

[1:17:54] written and immediately took away all of my concerns. Um but he mentioned um I'll

[1:17:59] give you a couple of things that he mentioned which is basically um even in

[1:18:04] the very very very rare um worst case scenario that there was a fire and that

[1:18:09] they did have to um flood the container um even if it was a teeny tiny little

[1:18:14] bit of of the F500 or or even the water that came out, it's still going to be

[1:18:18] significantly less than a structure fire, which we have all the time around

[1:18:21] here, or a car fire. Um, and so when you put it in perspectives like that, you

[1:18:25] know, it just it made me feel a lot better because we're all thinking when

[1:18:29] you read, you know, Facebook, especially with folks that are concerned, you

[1:18:33] picture explosions, you picture, you know, there's going to be like a hose

[1:18:36] going into this container and, you know, and it's and it's going to spray

[1:18:39] everywhere and it's going to go downstream and it's going to be in our

[1:18:42] storm water and there's a water body right across the street. And so I was

[1:18:45] concerned about that, but the chief um, Betsy, can you pull up that email from

[1:18:48] chief? Thanks. um was was definitely very very helpful

[1:18:52] and put me at ease.

[1:18:56] » Well, give or take. I would say the hydrant we could show you on the civil

[1:19:00] too afterwards, but it's probably like within 50 ft for the entrance drive.

[1:19:05] That's right. >> Yeah, that's sufficient.

[1:19:07] » Yeah.

[1:19:15] » And I think you guys were copied on the email, right? So, you saw should send it

[1:19:19] over. Yeah.

[1:19:28] » Yeah. He's become like a statewide authority in my opinion on

[1:19:32] » Chief Kenny. He's great to work with, too.

[1:19:35] » Yeah. >> Um but yeah, he said he's, you know, I

[1:19:38] mean, he said in our in our training, you know, the forum that we had.

[1:19:41] » Yeah. >> He's learned so much. you guys have

[1:19:43] said, you know, he obviously, you know, he's learned a lot, too, cuz you've been

[1:19:46] working with him and your teams have been. But it's good. I think this was a

[1:19:51] good exercise as much as it was, you know, delayed your project quite a bit.

[1:19:55] Um, but now you know how to do a hazard mitigation analysis.

[1:19:57] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[1:20:02] » Uh, okay. Yep. So, that's Chief's response to me.

[1:20:12] Where are you guys at with the ZBA? >> So,

[1:20:18] the last time we met with them, which was two hearings ago, um they had a a

[1:20:23] couple things they said that they wanted to see happen on site before they gave

[1:20:27] an approval. And those things have been accomplished now. Um, so

[1:20:34] you know, I hope we can close out with the ZBA as well, but I'm not

[1:20:38] » Did the fencing go in on the back there where they're worried about like the

[1:20:41] grade drop? >> So, the fencing, all the the um poles

[1:20:46] are in, but they're putting the mesh uh chain link up in the back still. Um, and

[1:20:52] then we got the temporary protecting the front and then um around the guy wires.

[1:20:56] So, um it'll be up before we're there. all the way around.

[1:21:07] » Any other questions?

[1:21:10] » Any questions online?

[1:21:14] » No, >> we don't have beta tonight, right?

[1:21:19] Beta's not on. >> No, there wasn't

[1:21:23] any civil questions left. I think we I think we

[1:21:29] talked about it before, but just making sure that everything that's been done

[1:21:33] thus far is consistent with what was previously approved on the site and any

[1:21:40] previous conditions that were part of that that are relevant to the site to

[1:21:44] date have been met. But I think beta has confirmed that.

[1:21:49] » Yeah. And >> in our last call when they were on I

[1:21:53] think >> Yeah. But even so I took it as so I'm

[1:21:57] putting together just a step further. I'm going I I took the I don't have it

[1:22:02] for you. I'm working on it for you to provide the 2022

[1:22:07] decision 2024 decision essentially 22 they never

[1:22:12] really got to build out on it because it came in for the modification. So I took

[1:22:16] I took the original one and went through all the conditions and I have an

[1:22:19] explanation for them. I'm going to provide that to you. Okay. have to plan

[1:22:22] in Brazilian board of appeals to go back.

[1:22:25] » Um >> the primary in one respects

[1:22:29] » they have since I helped draft the decision for

[1:22:35] the planning board back in 2021. I certainly it's arguable but the fence

[1:22:41] was not intended to be a fence to be put in in the beginning. was a perimeter

[1:22:46] fence that be done with the project was a I know it's kind of morphed through

[1:22:50] the process and that's kind of the thing I want to put in this response because

[1:22:54] that's kind of morphed over time. Um I applaud them putting out the signage but

[1:22:58] the signage was more for on the permanency side of it not an interim to

[1:23:02] those kind of things just to clarify. So want to interpret that those conditions

[1:23:07] were not met. You can have that opinion. But in terms I want to be able to kind

[1:23:11] of put it to writing. You know what I mean? So we're not this back and so I'm

[1:23:15] not >> I really would like to end this back and

[1:23:18] forth. >> Right. So um the decommissioning plan,

[1:23:22] you know, that was submitted the interconnection

[1:23:25] stuff that they were submitted, the racking system that was part of it. It's

[1:23:28] in the file. So I'm trying to go back through all those things and put it all

[1:23:32] together. So, it's a one like here's the here's the condition, here's what was

[1:23:38] done. Um, which is a good exercise anyway. So,

[1:23:42] » 100%. I mean, I think it's in our interest and your guys' interest to make

[1:23:47] sure that this is buttoned up as tight as possible.

[1:23:49] » Yeah. So, um, I will have that >> the goal is to have that absolutely for

[1:23:55] the CPA next week and I'll just follow the plan, but I don't have it complete

[1:23:58] for tonight. that was there. I was trying to I was trying

[1:24:02] but >> Okay.

[1:24:04] » So then I'm looking for a motion to close the public hearing

[1:24:09] » for 90 92 96 100 on Pond Street. >> So move

[1:24:14] » just quickly. So the plan would be we would close the hearing and then next

[1:24:19] meeting potentially vote on

[1:24:22] » decisions. This is what what I was envisioning.

[1:24:27] » Yeah. closing the public hearing. >> We keep it open for decision purposes

[1:24:34] just for decision. >> So not close it.

[1:24:36] » You can close the public comment portion public hearing,

[1:24:40] » but keep the hearing open quote unquote if you need to have something related to

[1:24:44] completion of the decision be finalized >> and then have it finalized.

[1:24:50] Well, actually drafted in between. It's already been drafted, but I know there's

[1:24:53] some changes that need to be done to it. that you could vote on at the October

[1:24:57] meeting. >> Okay. Yeah, that all sounds great to me.

[1:25:01] Um I just want to see the same level of diligence on the SWIP updates at the

[1:25:08] October meeting as we got tonight in order to

[1:25:12] vote to move the project forward. But otherwise, I'm good.

[1:25:18] » And congratulations on your hazard mitigation analysis turning all green.

[1:25:22] » Thank you.

[1:25:26] Sorry, I interrupt. So, I'll second Melissa's motion to close.

[1:25:30] » Do we have to stipulate that it's only the public portion? Oh,

[1:25:34] » prefer that. All right. So, looking for a motion to close the public portion of

[1:25:38] the 90929600 100R Pawn Street public hearing.

[1:25:42] » So moved. >> Have a second. All those in favor? I

[1:25:46] » I >> All right. The reason why is cuz you had

[1:25:49] asked a question, so I wanted you to be able to get that info.

[1:25:52] » Sure. And there might be a little >> I concur.

[1:25:56] » Okay. So then for next time it's so the hazard mitigation you're going to work

[1:26:00] on that any inconsistencies, right? >> And then the SWIP updates which you guys

[1:26:04] are obviously doing well on now >> and then we'll have a decision drafted

[1:26:07] and ready or reviewed because you're going to send it to us ahead of time and

[1:26:10] we're all going to do homework and then we're going to agree or disagree and

[1:26:14] we'll make amendments and then we'll vote on it.

[1:26:19] » Yes. >> All right. So we've got a a green flag

[1:26:21] right now. >> Great. digging it. Appreciate the time.

[1:26:25] » All right. Thanks so much. >> Thank you, everyone.

[1:26:26] » Thank you. >> All right. Now, we've got our interview

[1:26:31] with Stephen Silski. Did I do good? >> Awesome. First round.

[1:26:37] » All right. Come on up, Stephen. That >> was way off from what I was going to

[1:26:40] say. >> Me, too.

[1:26:42] » I've been sitting here practicing it for the last 10 minutes.

[1:26:46] » Thank you, everyone. >> Hello.

[1:26:48] » Hello. Thanks for having me. And we're 45 minutes late for the appointment,

[1:26:52] which is normal for planning. >> Yeah. Welcome. Welcome to the planning

[1:26:55] board. >> That wasn't the case last week. Last

[1:26:59] week's meeting wasn't >> so I don't know

[1:27:04] if you I hope you didn't decide that you were going to come forward because of

[1:27:07] that meeting because it's usually that was a really really short one.

[1:27:12] So, please introduce yourself, tell us where you live, uh, what's interesting

[1:27:16] for you with regards to the position available and we'll go from there.

[1:27:20] » Sure thing. Um, good evening. Nice to meet you all. Um, my name is Steve

[1:27:23] Silski. I'm a resident of 33 King Street in Norol. Um, I've been here with my

[1:27:30] wife for the last 10 years. Um, and I've been a really passionate commuter to the

[1:27:37] town, but haven't been involved at all. Uh I woke up a few months ago and

[1:27:41] saying, you know what, this is my town. This is my community. Um but I haven't

[1:27:46] put any thumbrint on this space. Uh I don't really know what's going on in the

[1:27:51] town. I don't really know many people. You know, every day I when I commute

[1:27:55] into Boston, I I sit stand around the same 12 to 15 people silently sipping

[1:28:00] coffee, but don't have any relationship. Um and I want to change that. So, um, I

[1:28:06] looked on the website, looked at committee options and opportunities, and

[1:28:10] I saw that this was one of the options. Um, I don't have a background in

[1:28:14] planning. Um, don't have the foggiest idea about planning, but I do have a

[1:28:18] background in psychology. I'm an organizational psychologist by

[1:28:22] education, which means I understand systems and people and elements and

[1:28:26] friction points. And um, I think I could offer some opportunity and some skills

[1:28:31] with that. Awesome.

[1:28:35] So, uh, any comfort level looking at like some of the plans that you might

[1:28:40] have seen tonight? >> Um, good at asking questions.

[1:28:44] » Okay, >> that's important.

[1:28:46] » So, um, comfort low, but um, I'm eager. I'm willing.

[1:28:50] » That's not a hard skill to pick up, I will say.

[1:28:52] » Yeah, I I was able to follow what he was doing and

[1:28:56] » Yeah, >> that's a witness test. Good job.

[1:28:58] » Thank you. All right. >> Which train are you on?

[1:29:03] Um the I leave my house at 6:30. So it's the 642.

[1:29:07] » 6. Yeah. Nice. Okay. I I alternate between the 6.

[1:29:11] » You hear that everybody? He's he's looking for a coffee buddy in the

[1:29:13] morning. >> No, I was just I Your face is vaguely

[1:29:17] familiar. So I think >> Yeah. I'm usually on the platform.

[1:29:19] » Me too. Yeah. So >> I'm I'm not

[1:29:25] work reading the Wall Street Journal. You know,

[1:29:29] » I'm the guy who's trying to get to a table as soon as possible. so I can hop

[1:29:33] on email before I get to the office. >> Um, in your tenure here um in town, have

[1:29:40] you seen any of kind of like the activities that the planning board has

[1:29:44] sponsored with regards to like the master planning uh sessions or any of

[1:29:48] the um any other stuff? Okay, >> I haven't. And that's actually one of

[1:29:51] the things I'm really interested in is is, you know, driving back and forth to

[1:29:55] Route One, seeing all the construction, um, wondering what's going on there. Um,

[1:30:01] to to learn about the the stop and shop space and that there's actual movement

[1:30:06] there is is really great, too, cuz talking to my neighbors about this stuff

[1:30:09] and what's going on. Really don't know. >> So, um, I haven't,

[1:30:15] » but really curious. This is also a learning opportunity for us to see how

[1:30:18] well like ours are getting out there, right? Like

[1:30:22] » um you know, I know you both have been to like several farmers markets,

[1:30:26] community day events and stuff like that to try and get the the word out. And I

[1:30:30] know Chief Kenny had had a lot of stuff going on with the fire place uh the fire

[1:30:34] department um the fireplace >> the fire department's uh building. Um

[1:30:40] there was uh B1 committee work that happened uh during that time frame as

[1:30:44] well. um

[1:30:47] avid reader of the the town's newsletter >> periodically.

[1:30:52] » Okay. Right. Any other questions? >> Yeah, I haven't seen one in a while.

[1:30:57] » In your in your 10 years here, is there something that looked to be a planning

[1:31:03] decision that you questioned or or >> I've been questioning the space since I

[1:31:08] got here? Wondering >> which space?

[1:31:10] » The uh >> downtown here.

[1:31:11] » Downtown space. Okay. you know, you you drive by and like this is such fertile

[1:31:16] space for something. There's opportunity for community.

[1:31:20] » And that that's one of the things that kills me the most is there isn't a space

[1:31:25] where I could trip over somebody and say, "Oh, hey, you live on King Street,

[1:31:29] too, or whatever." Um, it doesn't happen. I mean, the places you go to are

[1:31:34] Neados, you go to the Horse, or you go to um Eaglebrook. Th those are three

[1:31:39] restaurants almost on the edge of town that really don't serve as a social um

[1:31:46] hub space. Yeah. >> If you would like to trip over people,

[1:31:49] Honey Bean, other side. >> I went there today for lunch.

[1:31:52] » Um you Yeah, it's great. >> I picked up a smoothie for my wife.

[1:31:55] » Yeah. >> But what you're referencing is the third

[1:31:59] space, right? Which is like, you know, we have our primary space and our

[1:32:02] secondary space, and it's usually work and home. And then what's the third

[1:32:06] space? what's the right >> Starbucks level or coffee shop that

[1:32:10] everybody and and yeah it's very difficult for towns uh for anywhere to

[1:32:14] establish that it's a building block of community.

[1:32:17] » Yeah, >> it's really it's a general issue from

[1:32:19] what I've learned in my planning books for the design of suburbs in general is

[1:32:24] you know >> money doesn't solve it either. It

[1:32:26] » does not. No. Um, but yeah, we do need to build community

[1:32:29] » and there's no I I I want to be careful with you saying that because I don't

[1:32:34] think we have a shortage of community because when it comes time for us to put

[1:32:36] together community events, we show up in >> place making community.

[1:32:40] » Yeah, I think it's that part of the aspect, right? Like the informal

[1:32:43] » the July fireworks, community day. Um even uh the farmers market, you know,

[1:32:49] those are huge events for us. Um the Thursday concerts on the common, those

[1:32:53] are all well attended. and Sunday they were doing the socials on the town hill,

[1:32:57] you know, so there's no shortage of community or people wanting to get

[1:33:00] together to do things. I think we're just

[1:33:04] I don't think we have the human capital to continuously plan and and always put

[1:33:08] those things on, right? And I think there's other boundaries that we put

[1:33:11] upon ourselves either from a bureaucracy perspective or otherwise that, you know,

[1:33:16] precludes us from using Pawn Street in a certain way or from activating some of

[1:33:20] the other locations in town that we have access to. Um, you know, not to mention,

[1:33:25] you know, dilapidated old town hall properties that we could probably

[1:33:28] renovate and do something else with. >> I tooured it last week. Love it.

[1:33:33] » Are you going to take it yet? >> You're going to clean it out?

[1:33:35] » Yeah. >> Love it.

[1:33:37] » Kevin Roach and I are going to go in with a dumpster. Or actually, no. We

[1:33:40] decided construction trash bags. If you would like to get to know people, you

[1:33:44] can come clean out a town hall with us. >> When's this?

[1:33:47] » I don't know yet, but I'll let you know. I live near you.

[1:33:51] » Knock and be like, "We're on our Absolutely.

[1:33:53] » That's enough of me on my soap box, though. Any other questions?

[1:33:56] » Yeah. And you're aware of the non- voting status or the rules around the

[1:34:01] position? I assume you guys explain that to

[1:34:04] » for the this specific >> for the associate member.

[1:34:07] » Yeah. I don't think I'm trying to recall. So in terms of the associate

[1:34:10] member, the only thing I would say voting wise

[1:34:15] statutoily is if there's special permits before the planning board, you'll be

[1:34:19] able the planning board has treated the associate member like a member of the

[1:34:24] board for most everything input and so forth and so on. But in terms of voting

[1:34:29] wise, it's only special permits. >> Mhm.

[1:34:32] » And that's only if needed based on if somebody had a missed a meeting or

[1:34:38] not really conflicts per se with this board cuz they're don't have other

[1:34:42] business things going on. But anyway, so that's where it comes. Now, I will say,

[1:34:45] however, there is still there is pending I don't know if it's moving as of yet to

[1:34:51] make associate planning board members to have full voting rights. I mean, you've

[1:34:55] been saying that since I was an associate member, Rich.

[1:34:58] » Well, I keep saying >> you're manifesting it. I'm manifesting

[1:35:02] that. But anyway, but it's a good proving ground or a testing ground, a

[1:35:06] learning ground for other things. >> You know what? That makes sense.

[1:35:10] » You think has changed over the year? I'm sorry. Were you still

[1:35:12] » We have >> I started off Yeah, I started off as

[1:35:16] » I was going to ask if you um would you consider running,

[1:35:20] » you know, if you do this for a little while as running for a full-time

[1:35:23] » seat? Yeah. Um, I was just going to say I think over

[1:35:27] the years I think my thought on what the associate position

[1:35:31] is might be different than 10 years ago, you know, when the board members that

[1:35:36] were on then some of them anyway really wanted you to have construction

[1:35:39] experience or planning experience or I think it's it's a good way to get to

[1:35:42] know what's going on in town and it's low risk. I started as an associate, you

[1:35:46] did too, right? and you >> um and it was for me I thought it was a

[1:35:50] really good way to learn for a year you know learn and see if you even like it

[1:35:54] because 3 years is a long time if you're an elected member and you know so um

[1:35:58] that for me I was like oh great I can start for a year I can listen to what's

[1:36:01] going on you can contribute um it's just you know it's five votes typically in

[1:36:06] the off you know Rich mentioned the special scenarios but um but it's it's

[1:36:10] kind of like a low pressure way to get involved and to learn and then you get

[1:36:14] to meet other people from other boards it just happens naturally and you get to

[1:36:17] know what they're doing. Um, so I think it's a good way to get to know what's

[1:36:20] going on in town and then if you decide like this isn't for me or maybe I think

[1:36:24] this other board would be better, you can switch and go to another one. You

[1:36:27] know, it's just I think it's a low risk and I don't think you need planning

[1:36:30] experience cuz a lot of the time you just need curiosity and work ethic, you

[1:36:34] know, >> try to sell him on it. He's here. He's

[1:36:36] » No, I'm just saying like I think over time like I've heard of people that

[1:36:40] didn't get like people voted against them for you.

[1:36:42] » Yeah. No, I I love the fact that you're coming into it without kind of

[1:36:46] experience. I like the fact that you're coming to it from like a systems

[1:36:49] thinking and organizational perspective as well. I think that would be a huge

[1:36:54] benefit to be honest. >> I appreciate you bringing up the

[1:36:57] limitations and I'm not here for the authority yet.

[1:37:00] » No, no, totally. I just want to make sure that

[1:37:02] » No, I appreciate the heads up though. No, some people

[1:37:04] » it would be awkward for me to vote and be like, "Oh, wait. Sorry."

[1:37:08] No, there is um there have been people that haven't wanted to be the associate

[1:37:12] because they they would like to be able to vote and I'm like I would give you my

[1:37:15] vote in a heartbeat. I would I just want to do the work. I don't really you know.

[1:37:18] » So this year alone we scared away three people. So

[1:37:22] » well that's because they told them what it actually was. Nobody actually knew

[1:37:24] what the planning word was before they asked me and then they weren't

[1:37:27] interested once they knew. >> Should I have done more work here?

[1:37:33] You're fine with the the commitment the you know once a month meeting

[1:37:38] » the countless emails at all hours of the night

[1:37:41] » joking sounds great >> never never reply to all

[1:37:45] » where I think that this and I'm not saying this because I'm one of the

[1:37:48] people but I think that this is a very impressive board and a a good group of

[1:37:53] people who are engaged and you know thinking concretely about how to advance

[1:37:58] the town in the you know the best way that respects where it's come from and

[1:38:02] you know where it's going and so I think you know somebody that shares that um

[1:38:07] motivation and intention would be well suited to to join as

[1:38:12] » I think it's a really important position to be a steward of to acknowledge the

[1:38:16] historical like essence I mean we are an incredible town when you look at the

[1:38:22] other towns and the development of other towns we've held on to some really

[1:38:27] significant acquaintance you don't get that

[1:38:29] » really post that Did you post that on Facebook?

[1:38:32] » There's one specific group, >> but but I I THINK

[1:38:38] » stay away. >> I I'm your point is well taken. I

[1:38:43] » I forgot. >> I appreciate that. If I could give you a

[1:38:45] heart emoji, I would. >> You can.

[1:38:50] » All right. So, do we have to vote? >> So, the nuts and bolts of it is Yeah,

[1:38:54] you do have to vote to a joint appointment between the select board and

[1:38:58] the planning board. select board is already approved.

[1:39:01] » No, we we to recommend you >> first off on the uh and

[1:39:09] if you so choose to make the recommendation, it's probably possible

[1:39:14] it might be able to be on their agenda next

[1:39:18] Monday. >> Monday the 14th.

[1:39:20] » The next the select board meets on the 14th next Monday. So it could be that

[1:39:24] quick. >> All right. So then I am looking for a

[1:39:28] motion to recommend Steven Suzilski for planning board member or planning board

[1:39:33] associate member to the select board. >> So moved. Do

[1:39:36] » you have a second? >> Second.

[1:39:38] » All those in favor. >> I unanimous.

[1:39:41] » So one more vote and then we'll see you in October hopefully.

[1:39:44] » Thanks Steve. >> Pleasure meeting you.

[1:39:46] » Thank you. >> Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

[1:39:48] Looking forward to it. Thanks for the chair or vice chair could attend next

[1:39:51] Monday night. And in the meantime, um, Steve, if you're looking for something

[1:39:55] to read, we have a 200 and something page master plan on the town website.

[1:39:58] » Just put it into Claude and ask him all the questions.

[1:40:02] » 200 and how many? >> It's It's a really good read. Don't

[1:40:05] worry. >> It's It's 200 something, though.

[1:40:07] » Read it right before bed. >> Your sales pitch needs work.

[1:40:10] » I know. I know. >> Um, Richard Rich, um, the meeting next

[1:40:15] Monday. Should I plan on attending that or is that

[1:40:18] » Mark your calendar? We'll confirm that. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[1:40:20] » Great. >> Thank you all. Thank you.

[1:40:23] » Have a good night. >> You too.

[1:40:26] » Um I will do my best. It's at what 7.

[1:40:32] » I'm sorry. What? What did you ask? >> Can you and or I

[1:40:36] » chair vice company Steven to >> Oh, I'm sorry. And then I started

[1:40:40] talking over you. >> Yeah. You scared them off.

[1:40:43] » You can meet him by Zoom as well. >> Yeah, you can by Zoom if you want. You

[1:40:46] know, >> I'll be on a train from New York.

[1:40:49] » I mean, >> so I will do my best. I mean, Dan joined

[1:40:52] from a plane the other day. Gary joined from

[1:40:54] » That's illegal. Every other country you've gone to.

[1:40:58] » I did not join the Zoom from a plane. I watched the live Norfolk community

[1:41:03] television stream from a plane. >> Okay. But you were on it.

[1:41:07] » But I has joined from like 2 a.m. from >> France, Costa Rica, Aruba.

[1:41:14] I'm missing one. >> Edinburgh.

[1:41:17] » It's the way to do it. >> Scotland. So you think so you're on a

[1:41:21] train? You said >> I'm on a train back from New York.

[1:41:24] » That's not >> What time's your train live?

[1:41:26] » I don't know. I haven't booked it yet. >> Conveniently, it's right around that

[1:41:29] time. >> I know at this point I know of all the

[1:41:33] places where you can get enough service. >> So I will I will offer this up to we on

[1:41:38] the 28th the select board. So still we could if the schedule works better that

[1:41:43] way you can do on 28th and then you can come and he still could be available for

[1:41:46] October. So I mean >> otherwise

[1:41:48] » two bites of the apple. >> Otherwise it's the 14th.

[1:41:51] » Yeah. >> Okay. So if it needs to be if it's the

[1:41:53] 14th I can do it and then if you want to do if the

[1:41:56] » I'll try and join on the 14th. >> I've also joined from a hospital bed.

[1:41:59] » Yep. >> I think I joined from from bed one time

[1:42:04] too when I was deathly ill but we needed that last vote saying. So find that spot

[1:42:07] on the train. >> I joined during co dam upgrade for a

[1:42:11] seller and just blind expense it and say you didn't know the policy. It's very

[1:42:15] admirable that you're joining in the hospital bed and the plane and that just

[1:42:20] shows the dedication. >> You joined from

[1:42:23] » All right. Can we change topics now? >> Master plan implementation update. How

[1:42:27] are we doing? Have we implemented it yet?

[1:42:29] » Not yet. >> All right. Next one. Zoning button. No.

[1:42:32] » Wait. No, there is. There's nothing. >> Um, so I went to the select board last

[1:42:37] week and my >> You can't go next week. Joking.

[1:42:40] » I said I'm joking. Um, I looked at my calendar, but no, the um I went last

[1:42:46] week. Dan joined the way that he did from the plane. Um,

[1:42:51] » the way that >> the legal way,

[1:42:53] » the legal way >> in compliance with all FAA rules.

[1:42:59] » Um, and my plan, my goal was to get a vote from select board that they agree

[1:43:04] with our, you know, with what we're doing and all the owners because now we

[1:43:08] have owners tied to the different topics. and I created my charter for my

[1:43:13] category and showed them what it would look like and then yours would obviously

[1:43:15] be similar. I'll send it out to you all just so you can see. Um but um but I

[1:43:21] didn't tell Rob or Amanda that I was expecting a vote until after the notice

[1:43:24] went out. So they are good with uh select board. They're they like what we

[1:43:29] have done. Um but I have to go back for a vote because I did not tell them I

[1:43:33] wanted a vote and so they didn't post it that way. But that's fine.

[1:43:36] » Maybe they could do it on Monday. >> Why do we need Why do we need the vote?

[1:43:39] I It's like just our >> municipality stuff.

[1:43:45] » Have him do it Monday. >> Yeah,

[1:43:46] » could do that. >> Yeah.

[1:43:47] » Oh, wait. If I'm going to be there anyway.

[1:43:48] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[1:43:49] » Save yourself a trip. >> Serious

[1:43:53] Monday. >> For the economic development committee

[1:43:56] work stream. Do I have to start like recruiting people?

[1:43:59] » Oh, okay. So, they did ask about that. They asked how we were going to recruit

[1:44:02] because typically if it was a subcommittee, you know, it goes out on

[1:44:04] the website and it goes on the, you know, the website where nobody really

[1:44:07] looks except um Steve. And so I was hesitant to do it that way

[1:44:14] because I know that it doesn't, you know, obviously we have to put it out on

[1:44:16] social media and um and it's not officially a subcommittee. And so I was

[1:44:19] working through all of like how we do that. And I figured we because we want

[1:44:23] people to just not be committed to a certain term and they can't be if it's a

[1:44:26] working group and just have like different people that have different

[1:44:29] skill sets that want to jump in and help us with a certain task or something. I

[1:44:32] figured we could all just recruit our own people however in conversations when

[1:44:36] we meet them. But then um I believe it was Rob who said, "Well, we could put it

[1:44:40] out on the website and social media as well so we can do both." Um, so I what I

[1:44:44] was thinking is as soon as we have their official vote, then we could, you know,

[1:44:48] put an email out in social media or put it on the website, whatever we decide to

[1:44:52] do, and say, "Here are the the owners for these particular topics. Here's the

[1:44:55] focus area. Here's their town email. If you'd like to, you know, help in any

[1:45:00] way, reach out." And I told them that we would um be giving updates to our, you

[1:45:04] know, at the planning board probably quarterly. It'll probably be more like

[1:45:07] rolling for us though as we have updates. So could be monthly at a

[1:45:11] minimum quarterly. I think but and that we would um give the select board an

[1:45:16] update as well um quarterly they would like updates and they wanted to make

[1:45:21] sure that um we're working with you know like the energy committee for example

[1:45:25] would fit into one of the categories I think maybe it was infrastructure um but

[1:45:30] you know there's already committees that exist and so they wanted to make sure

[1:45:34] that we're going to interface with them and not kind of reinvent the wheel and

[1:45:37] create some silo and so yeah so I was like no no no like we'll definitely be

[1:45:41] working with the with town employees, with other, you know, boards,

[1:45:45] committees, whomever fits into that category. Um, and I figured once it's

[1:45:49] all officially approved from the select board, I can put something together,

[1:45:52] send it out to all of you to make sure you're okay with it. Or if you have

[1:45:55] feedback, just before we push something out to everyone saying if you're

[1:45:58] interested in this topic, reach out to Allerie. If you're interested in this

[1:46:00] one, reach out to Dan. Um, and just, you know, keep it kind of simple, informal,

[1:46:05] and see what we can do to make some progress.

[1:46:09] » Yeah, sounds good. >> I'm ready to go. I have my market data.

[1:46:11] I'm ready to run with this. >> Nice.

[1:46:14] » I did something last week. >> Market data.

[1:46:16] » Yeah. >> Nice.

[1:46:17] » MEAPC had most of it already. >> That's all right. You found it.

[1:46:19] » And then I just heard from PY that they they're pulling it, too. So, I'm like,

[1:46:22] damn it. They could have done all the work.

[1:46:27] » No, but I appreciate it because you had a good lens in the conversation already.

[1:46:31] » Yeah. >> It's not It's not good. The data is not

[1:46:34] good. But MAPC pointed that out before like you're effectively a bedroom

[1:46:37] community. You've trained a whole generation to go to other towns to do

[1:46:40] stuff like that. >> True. That's why we need to get

[1:46:42] creative. >> Yeah.

[1:46:43] » Little bits at a time. >> But what I'm hearing is that people

[1:46:46] don't want to continue to do that. Right.

[1:46:48] » Right. >> Just the outcry for the ice cream store

[1:46:51] that opened up across from Four Kicks was huge,

[1:46:53] » which twice. >> Yeah. I heard it's good.

[1:46:57] » So, you know, it's that's the thing that I don't want to miss out on.

[1:47:02] » No, completely. Yeah. It's just what what are the do we have to take baby

[1:47:07] steps to get there? I guess is like I don't want businesses to go out of

[1:47:10] business. So if we can find a lowerc cost way for phase one

[1:47:15] I mean you're probably like our perfect case study right here, right? Like you

[1:47:19] already have your business >> and all of your you don't need to do you

[1:47:23] don't need the costs of a storefront, you know, you already have it down pat

[1:47:26] and you have all these. >> Yeah. So it's like

[1:47:29] » but alternatively what if you were just providing goods to a established

[1:47:34] business that was there >> that could sell to the state which is

[1:47:37] another layer. >> There's also

[1:47:39] » Mhm. >> So like my my vertical here is

[1:47:45] » economic development. I've also broken record time talked about potential for

[1:47:51] co-op in town to act as that

[1:47:56] » combining space. So, these are conversations that I wish weren't

[1:48:01] quarterly. >> Quarterly, like, but I understand

[1:48:05] they're rolling and like there's not going to be a set like every month or

[1:48:08] every meeting there's an update, but these are conversations where

[1:48:13] » I mean, I can't say the timing is right cuz investment money is really hard to

[1:48:16] come by and getting anybody to underwrite stuff is really hard.

[1:48:19] » Um, but like the to the point, the time is now because this is what people want.

[1:48:24] So, and just I don't know if I was I just want to make sure I said this

[1:48:28] clearly, but the um we will be working in our own groups on our own whenever we

[1:48:33] want. You know, it could be weekly. It could be every day if we want. Um

[1:48:37] » I'm going to live and breathe it. >> Yeah. Yeah.

[1:48:39] » Quit my job. >> Do your free job, one of your free jobs

[1:48:43] full-time. Um but yeah, so we can be working on in their working groups where

[1:48:47] you know wherever whenever and then we just bring the updates back here so that

[1:48:51] we're communicating them out to anybody that's you know watching our meetings.

[1:48:54] So I think it's good that we keep it on the agenda every month and then you know

[1:48:57] select word we can just give them an update quarterly and I don't know that

[1:49:00] we need to go to the meetings because Tai is our liaison. So we could also

[1:49:04] just give her an update I think and then she could bring it there back. Yeah.

[1:49:10] » It's cool though. I like that this is the next step of the master plan cuz I

[1:49:14] remember when I moved here. It was post the prior master plan and there was a

[1:49:19] part of the the town website that had like a video they had created and but

[1:49:23] then there was no this is the fault of anybody. It was just there just it is

[1:49:28] what it is. There was no like next step, >> right? It was like this is what we want

[1:49:32] which is awesome. >> There's no next step. There's no

[1:49:35] engaging with develop, you know, with with the building owners and see if

[1:49:39] they'd actually tear down their building and add a second floor emblem.

[1:49:42] » I keep hearing about this video. I've never seen it. Do you have a a copy

[1:49:46] somewhere that you can share? >> I'd love that.

[1:49:47] » It's well done. >> Yeah,

[1:49:49] » it was well done. >> That was when there's going to be a

[1:49:52] bridge. >> Yeah.

[1:49:53] » Into the MBTA lot. >> That's right.

[1:49:56] » Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. I've seen that.

[1:49:59] » We could have used that bridge. >> Better serviced than Montreal.

[1:50:05] A broken bridge. We don't need another broken bridge.

[1:50:08] » Is Is that Montreal thing still off of Sharon's Avenue there? Did everybody

[1:50:13] drive? It's still there. >> Just like

[1:50:15] » the podway. >> Yeah, the pod.

[1:50:17] » Yeah. Hasn't >> hasn't moved in years.

[1:50:20] » No sprouting on the pod yet. >> Yeah.

[1:50:25] » Still the weirdest thing that's come across this board, I think.

[1:50:29] » We're forward. We're progressive. What can I say? All right. zonoting bylaw

[1:50:33] committee updates. >> So, want to dive in or

[1:50:37] » Yeah, dive. I think two main updates. Um the first is we had a a

[1:50:46] good discussion at our last meeting um that Rich put together with Mr.

[1:50:51] Deplactoido. Is that right? Did I say that right?

[1:50:53] » Um to kind of give us a perspective of a developer, you know, in town, what what

[1:50:58] they're looking for, what moves the needle, what doesn't. Um, and I think

[1:51:03] had a good got a good sense from him of, you know, how to focus some of the the

[1:51:07] work of the the zoning bylaw review committee. Um, part of the conversation

[1:51:12] was around the open space bylaw and whether or not, you know, that would

[1:51:18] kind of have the effect that we wanted it to. Um, and the feedback that we kind

[1:51:22] of got there was not nec not necessarily that there were some kind of good pieces

[1:51:27] to it, but just kind of charging forward with that. it was unlikely to kind of

[1:51:32] move the the needle on anything. So I think our recommendation

[1:51:36] around that would be to not move forward with that for the fall um town meeting.

[1:51:42] I think what we are what we are going to do is kind of take that apart and take

[1:51:47] some of the pieces out of it and include it in sort of a holistic view of you

[1:51:52] know different incentives or or things that you could do like um density

[1:51:57] bonuses or you know stuff like that. Um and kind of have a whole aim to have a

[1:52:03] more holistic suite of those things to propose to the planning board to then go

[1:52:09] to the spring town meeting. Okay. >> Um, so I think the the sort of next

[1:52:14] steps on on that are um we're kind of all getting back together as a group at

[1:52:20] our next meeting to kind of put together like a little bit of a matrix of like

[1:52:24] what are the different ideas or components or kind of stuff that we

[1:52:28] think could move the needle or make a difference. what does it look like now

[1:52:33] and what could we propose as a change to further incentivize the you know right

[1:52:40] type of development that we want to see >> and you are you basing that on kind of

[1:52:44] like what other tones have done and seen success with as well or

[1:52:47] » it's it's a little it's kind of everything like in my mind the first

[1:52:50] step is sort of like a like throw all the ideas in there and then start to

[1:52:54] like wade through it and see what's worked what hasn't worked and

[1:52:57] » I think um Mr. Placid O2 was saying like basically what we were proposing is what

[1:53:03] all towns do and so we're I think we need to get creative with that too

[1:53:07] because it's not you know he was talking about like from a cost perspective for a

[1:53:10] developer there frontage like just even that alone being 50 ft from the road

[1:53:16] versus 200 you save a ton of money in utility connections right so just get

[1:53:20] thinking outside the box like that he thought that what we had before was more

[1:53:23] like the copy paste of what towns typically do but we're at a point where

[1:53:27] we need to start thinking about it differently. Yeah.

[1:53:31] » Yeah. It would have been really if our if our goal and intention behind it was

[1:53:35] to add more open space into town, it would have been a decent thing to try to

[1:53:40] think about. But if our goal is to try to, you know, incentivize developers to

[1:53:44] not go the 40b route, then that's not exactly how to how to do it. Um, and

[1:53:50] while I hugely support any and all open space in town, you know, I think one of

[1:53:55] the things we're really trying to do with this is figure out how to get

[1:53:58] developers away from 40B into um other types of of development and also

[1:54:05] looking at smaller house sizes. Is it 40 Y is that the

[1:54:09] » So, that's where it brought forward the idea of the 40 Y is

[1:54:14] » yet another opportunity that could accomplish some of the same goals.

[1:54:17] Right. But also on this the note of the open space that we have in town, we're

[1:54:22] not necessarily good stewards of that either. There's a ton of open space

[1:54:25] that's overgrown and there's no trail access except for a sign or and there's

[1:54:30] no parking either in a lot of these >> if there's even a sign.

[1:54:33] » If there's even a sign and so >> and then and then some of the idea

[1:54:37] behind is just really how we develop. Not necessarily that's going to be

[1:54:41] trails. It's like smaller development footprint for leaving tracks that land

[1:54:48] open and undeveloped. It doesn't nec have to always be a trail or just

[1:54:51] » Exactly. It could just open space isn't always for human use.

[1:54:56] » Right. Right. Yeah. It was more Exactly. habitat and so forth.

[1:54:59] » And I think that's the part that we keep trying to attach to it as some sort of

[1:55:02] like a human purpose as opposed to just it being preserved space.

[1:55:06] » Mhm. So really kind of gave credence to kind of continue to move forward with

[1:55:11] the 40y program in terms of so that's that was kind of I think the sense of

[1:55:17] that. >> Yep. Yep. So, we'll be reconvening on

[1:55:20] that in September. And I think um acknowledging that if we are going to

[1:55:24] kind of put together a comprehensive um proposal, you know, we really got to

[1:55:31] get cracking and be back here to the planning board by the very beginning of

[1:55:36] next year in order to potentially do something for the spring town meeting if

[1:55:40] we if that's the direction we want to go.

[1:55:44] » Any questions on that? >> Nothing on that. I do see something in

[1:55:48] here around a moratorium on data centers.

[1:55:50] » I'm about to get to the second one. >> All right.

[1:55:52] » So, no questions on the first one. >> Nothing on the first one.

[1:55:55] » All right. So, the second the second update is we have discussed a potential

[1:56:00] for a moratorum on um data centers. And the the issue that we're trying to

[1:56:05] tackle here is not to ban data centers per se. It's to have an opportunity as a

[1:56:13] town to take a look at uh take a look at having actual zoning. it.

[1:56:20] Whether or not we would want to have actual zoning for data centers in town

[1:56:24] that, you know, are are kind of setting this up in a way um where we do it kind

[1:56:31] of with diligence and with purpose and not all of a sudden have a proposal come

[1:56:36] in the door and we've got no zoning, we've got no rules, we got no no idea

[1:56:41] how to respond to it and the whole town is is up in arms. So kind of taking an

[1:56:45] opportunity to say, you know, we're going to formally say no data center

[1:56:50] proposals for either one year or two years, and that's the place that we want

[1:56:53] feedback from from this group while we actually study it as a potential use in

[1:56:58] town. Um, and get feedback, you know, from people in the town whether or not

[1:57:04] if if one could be done in a way that isn't super water intensive, falls

[1:57:11] within the noise ordinances. um you know is located away from

[1:57:16] residences, stuff like that. Would we ever actually entertain that? Because

[1:57:19] the reality is like it's a it's a huge property and commercial tax opportunity

[1:57:26] with next to no impact on town services. So I think

[1:57:33] the short way of saying it is we want to be diligent. We want to take a little

[1:57:37] bit of time to look at this. We don't want something to come in, you know,

[1:57:41] under the radar. um and completely blow up it in the meantime.

[1:57:49] I agree. >> Cool. And it may well be that we do this

[1:57:53] moratorum and then we discuss as a planning board and we

[1:57:58] take input from residents and the final decision is we're just not going to

[1:58:03] allow this in town and then we would move forward accordingly with that. But,

[1:58:08] you know, we don't necessarily want to preclude the opportunity to gather

[1:58:11] feedback to see if there could be a right way to to to do that.

[1:58:17] » Where would viable space in town even be for this? Aside from Southwood,

[1:58:22] » two things. One, Southwood is is the one, but then two, like, you know, a

[1:58:26] data center isn't necessarily like like Amazon or Meta or something like that is

[1:58:32] not going to come build a data center in Norfol, right? like the amount of real

[1:58:35] estate that they need is like so astronomical they would they wouldn't

[1:58:38] even come to New England never mind nor >> we also wouldn't have like a traditional

[1:58:41] like water cooled one either we don't have

[1:58:44] » but something but some some sort of like smaller

[1:58:47] cloud storage operation like that yeah or like something

[1:58:52] colllocated that you know all of a sudden everybody could start to spin up

[1:58:57] that oh that's a data you know a data center and then we don't have anything

[1:59:00] in the zoning or any way to to put kind guard rails around it. Um,

[1:59:05] » so you get the tax improvements of a last mile distribution center without

[1:59:09] the >> traffic. Traffic. Yeah.

[1:59:13] » Cool. >> And again, you know, not saying not

[1:59:16] prejudging the outcome, just ensuring we have the opportunity to consider it.

[1:59:21] » I think that's the important piece because along with the tax revenue, you

[1:59:24] also get like highly skilled labor as well. That could be like, you know,

[1:59:29] students from Tri County, you know, their future electricians, plumbers,

[1:59:34] you've got, you know, technicians, all of that. That's

[1:59:36] » it's a huge thing for the building trades for sure.

[1:59:39] » Absolutely.

[1:59:42] » So, I think there's two things that we wanted to run by this group. One is the

[1:59:48] definition as proposed and two is the timeline, whether it should be one year

[1:59:53] or 2 years. And I think Rich remind me we've more or less like lifted and

[1:59:58] shifted from what Mansfield had put together.

[2:00:01] » Yeah, we we built off the moratorium and Mansfield had done with adding the

[2:00:09] definition. So tell so as we kind of got into discussion about this

[2:00:14] one approach which the committee didn't recommend was to just create a

[2:00:18] definition kind of comprehensive definition go in prohibit it outright

[2:00:23] use table and then do the study and then come back and change it later on. Um

[2:00:29] that wasn't the preferred method. So, but in that process, the town council

[2:00:34] forwarded data center definition which I put into the one that came from

[2:00:39] Mansfield modeled after that. So, >> what's our um

[2:00:43] » with the exception of definitions, it's exactly what was in the one from

[2:00:48] Mansfield that got approved by the AG. >> What's our hit list look like for the

[2:00:52] next 12 months? Like if we're talking timelines, right? Like we've been

[2:00:55] » So, that's why I was advocating for 2 years.

[2:00:57] » I would not want it to go that long. It doesn't have to go that long.

[2:01:02] » We can pull it and >> lift it.

[2:01:03] » You could do it sooner. >> Okay.

[2:01:06] » But >> but what's the mechanism by which

[2:01:08] lifting it? >> Huh?

[2:01:09] » What is the mechanism by which it gets lifted? Is it a town meeting?

[2:01:13] » You have to go back to town meeting to lift it early, which I think would be

[2:01:16] very difficult to to do. >> But we could also extend it

[2:01:20] » by the same mechanism. >> Right.

[2:01:22] » So I mean for me like >> I would like to put the pressure on us

[2:01:26] to get something done within a year to be honest. That's where my head is

[2:01:29] because like I think to this the point Dan was making earlier like there is

[2:01:33] potential upside to this. It's not a definite upside but

[2:01:38] we're we're smart and we've moved fast before.

[2:01:44] You don't you don't trust us. You don't believe in us.

[2:01:49] » It's not that I don't believe >> I'd like I'd like us to have this on the

[2:01:54] fall town warrant. Well, that's what we're aiming to do is

[2:01:57] » and I I'd like to go for a year. That's my vote.

[2:02:01] » I'm I'm totally fine for a year. I I think the only other thing is if there

[2:02:05] was concern you could go like instead of going two years, if you went a year and

[2:02:10] a half um

[2:02:14] » 18 months, >> 18 months, you'd be kind of better

[2:02:17] aligned with a town meeting schedule to either to extend it at the end of that.

[2:02:23] I mean, you went to the spring of 2018. I could see that versus cuz so basically

[2:02:27] we >> But then that pulls us into the whole

[2:02:29] fiscal conversation again and then we have money on the brain.

[2:02:32] » Hold on. Let's play it out though, right? So the fall is is challenging in

[2:02:35] general with the zoning because you're coming out of the summer. So you're

[2:02:39] developing a bylaw discussion point of the what the the bylaw is about to do

[2:02:44] the homework ahead of time to educate about it is tough in the fall. Mhm.

[2:02:48] » So that means you'd be like trying to get

[2:02:52] this done next fall and you're coming out of the summer from next year and if

[2:02:57] you're thinking about trying to do 40 and some other things in the spring of

[2:03:00] 2027 >> alternatively at that point we're

[2:03:02] looking at saying hey you know what we don't have enough yet we're going to

[2:03:05] push it out another year >> just can't come in soon

[2:03:09] » or you could do it till you could do it to December 31st 2020 or January 1st

[2:03:15] 2028 and then if you're not far enough at the fall 27 town meeting of where you

[2:03:22] want to be. You could add a year to it. So, you're at least there like a couple

[2:03:28] months right before you could have a pretty solid sense check of where you're

[2:03:32] going to be >> in that time.

[2:03:33] » Yeah. We should know if we're going to make it or not by then. Yeah.

[2:03:36] » And then that's like 14 months instead of a year, right?

[2:03:43] » Sounds reasonable. >> Okay. The other thing I'll note, you may

[2:03:48] or may not seen that the governor issued an executive order in Massachusetts on

[2:03:52] on data centers today. Um what she said was you're not going to get state

[2:03:57] permits if you don't have community support. So basically like in order to

[2:04:00] get your permits from the state, you need a a community benefits agreement

[2:04:04] that's signed on by a town. Um I don't I don't think that that should change our

[2:04:09] approach here um with the moratorum to to talk about the the zoning. No, but

[2:04:16] what was I tell you politically? >> That it's a voting year.

[2:04:19] » That it's an election year. Yeah. >> Well, aside from that,

[2:04:25] » not the answer Rich. >> No, I think it's

[2:04:28] » maybe there's some lessons learned. >> It's take your time. I know you want to,

[2:04:32] you know, whatever. We could we can go. I just I don't know what the

[2:04:40] We'll go with what you want. I my only hesitation is and I haven't had the

[2:04:44] opportunity to discuss with councils and maybe it's fine but generally speaking

[2:04:49] moratoriums are for a set period of time just go keep going for extensions. So I

[2:04:53] wonder about the legal grounds of like, all right, we get to hear, well, we're

[2:04:57] not quite ready and we go extend, >> but you don't have to extend it. You

[2:05:00] could do a new moratorum next fall.

[2:05:04] » That's if you're worried about like not

[2:05:07] extending it. You just take another one-year moratorum effective January

[2:05:10] 1st, 28 to next fall town meeting. >> Yeah. It's interesting. Is that just

[2:05:15] like segmentation? You you did it once and then you're going back and stuff.

[2:05:19] It's a >> I mean we do that with a lot of things,

[2:05:21] » huh? >> We do that with a lot of things.

[2:05:24] » Well, moritium moratorium is a different >> Oh, gotchaally per se. Yeah, legally,

[2:05:29] but but would you say January of 28? >> No, 27.

[2:05:34] » No, 28. Yeah. Yeah. >> It would end January 1st, 2028.

[2:05:46] I mean at the rate of 28 >> I put in December. So I went

[2:05:52] » at the rate of development of how everything's going from a technology

[2:05:57] perspective within 5 years the data center is going to be an appliance in

[2:06:00] your house. Right? So like if there's something that we want to try and do

[2:06:05] from like a a tax benefit perspective is going to be to allow something like this

[2:06:10] but within the guard rails that we're describing, right? Like it's just it's

[2:06:15] going to continue to get closer and closer to us and we want to be able to

[2:06:18] like relegate how it comes and it's not something that we want to take our time

[2:06:22] on. It's something that we have to act quickly on. And I think you can always

[2:06:26] add I I feel my non lawyer lawyer point of view on this is that you can you can

[2:06:33] add another moratorium and you can't you're not going to be able to end it

[2:06:36] early or or reduce it. And so >> I think if you had a bylaw that it's

[2:06:43] ready to go to adopt it sooner you wouldn't think if you had

[2:06:49] let's just say for discussion you had the bylaw ready for the spring

[2:06:54] » 27 >> 27

[2:06:57] not 27 is not a good one that that's a bad example but if you do have it ready

[2:07:02] for the fall >> well that's a question for to town

[2:07:05] council does a bylaw override a previously passed moratorum

[2:07:09] So you would really two votes there. One would be the adoption to first would be

[2:07:14] the remove the moratorum then then to vote the bylaw.

[2:07:18] » But that's just that makes it a bigger hurdle to pass to to end the morator

[2:07:25] bylaw. >> Pass the bylaw. Can you pass the bylaw

[2:07:28] to a date like to the January 1st 2028 in the

[2:07:32] » vote? Yeah, I've definitely seen like >> because then anybody who's like

[2:07:36] interested >> would know what's coming like what date

[2:07:39] it would be on the table. >> Well, I think there's there's consensus

[2:07:44] to to put forth a moratorum for the fall. Is that true?

[2:07:47] » I think we're looking at a moratorum of 14 months.

[2:07:50] » Mhm. >> Roughly.

[2:07:51] » I'd rather do that than not do anything.

[2:07:56] » Yeah. And then if you can rich ask town council if we found ourselves in a

[2:08:01] position next fall where we felt like we needed a good chunk of more time could

[2:08:05] we either extend that moratorum or pass a fresh one-year moratorum to add on to

[2:08:10] that. >> Okay.

[2:08:15] » But I agree. I think we should really try in 14 months to understand is this

[2:08:19] something that we don't want to see here or is this something where under the

[2:08:25] right conditions with the right guard rails we would be interested in at least

[2:08:30] reviewing and potentially improving.

[2:08:36] Now, the companion to that or this discussion, oh

[2:08:41] was I sent you an email out of checking your schedules.

[2:08:45] You would need to hold a special meeting.

[2:08:47] » You love these. >> Oh, I forgot to respond to that.

[2:08:49] » I don't even understand this. >> I didn't see it either, Rich.

[2:08:55] » I did. I just ignored it. >> Oh, well, at least I appreciate your

[2:09:00] honesty. >> I just want to be transparent.

[2:09:03] » Transparent that you ignore. Okay. Now, >> no, I did see it. I just

[2:09:06] » I just want you to know why that's true. Well, if you read the email, but

[2:09:10] » when did you >> When did you send that?

[2:09:12] » I remember reading it. No, I don't remember.

[2:09:13] » It's uh it's called fall zoning bylaws. It was sent on September 2nd, 6 days

[2:09:18] ago. >> Oh, you tricked me.

[2:09:23] » The dates I would that Rich would like us to consider is September 26th,

[2:09:26] September 30th, or October 1st. >> Oh, you're killing me.

[2:09:29] » Wait a minute. Aren't I >> September 28th Music Festival, man?

[2:09:35] Well, you mean 28? Isn't the 28th the steering committee meeting?

[2:09:39] » Yeah, but I think we could squeeze those in.

[2:09:42] » But I'm just saying your email said the dates I would like you to consider as

[2:09:45] September 28th, September 30th, and October 1st.

[2:09:48] » Gary just said the 26th. >> I can't do the 30th. That's the last.

[2:09:52] Sorry, >> I can't read.

[2:09:54] » I can only do the 28th. >> I can do the 28th. I can try to hustle

[2:09:59] back from Ocean City, Maryland by car and be here on time.

[2:10:04] » Well, so the other opt Well, so I wasn't necessarily proposing

[2:10:11] proposing it via Zoom, honestly, cuz I didn't want to compete against meeting

[2:10:15] room. >> That's fine.

[2:10:16] » You know, so this would be a Zoom only. It's

[2:10:19] » 6:30. What time is our

[2:10:25] thing? Is this uh seven? >> What time does it mean? Oh my goodness.

[2:10:33] Wasn't it a little bit earlier? >> I thought we said seven. So Mike could

[2:10:36] eat dinner. >> I think he wanted to go later. That's

[2:10:38] right. That's correct. Mike wanted to go to 7,

[2:10:42] not 6:30. >> You want it to be a seven?

[2:10:45] » No, this Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. This is a different

[2:10:47] » different convers. But I would I would I would move that meeting before I would

[2:10:54] not take this. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. That meeting.

[2:10:58] » Yeah. Like we could try to find like we could pick another date later in the

[2:11:01] week or something if the 28th works for >> the planning board.

[2:11:05] » Correct. >> The 28th is was the next zoning bylaw

[2:11:11] subcommittee. Got it. That's all. Let's assume just put a message on

[2:11:16] note on Zoom. She wrote something. Was she ready?

[2:11:24] » She put something in chat.

[2:11:30] » I can't read that. >> So, which day

[2:11:31] » I have the meeting at 8:00 p.m. on the 20 6 p.m.

[2:11:35] » 6 p.m. on the 29th. >> What's up?

[2:11:39] » Oh, 6 p.m. I can't do 6 p.m. >> Oh, so

[2:11:41] » Oh, wait. Is there a select board meeting?

[2:11:43] » Oh, that's what I knew. >> That's what That's what it is. We are

[2:11:45] going to meet the 29th because the select boards meeting on Monday.

[2:11:48] » Yeah. >> Thank you, Sue.

[2:11:51] » Thank Thank you. All right. So, the 20th works for the plan, right?

[2:11:54] » 28th. >> Okay. All right.

[2:11:56] » Is that still good? >> That's still No, that's good.

[2:11:59] » Okay. >> And then on that meeting,

[2:12:00] » it'll be at the same time as the select coordinator.

[2:12:03] » Yeah, which is fine. We'll be on Zoom, >> right? You'll be on Zoom. And then on

[2:12:07] that meeting, we will add the recommendations for Norway Farms Drive.

[2:12:14] Okay. Okay. >> All right. So, we're just So, we're

[2:12:17] talking about >> Sorry, I'm trying to

[2:12:19] » September 28th. >> Thank you.

[2:12:20] » What time? >> 6. Did we say 6:30?

[2:12:24] » 6:30. >> 6:30.

[2:12:28] » Oh, by Zoom. >> I'll make it work.

[2:12:30] » What's that? >> Nothing. Oh, good.

[2:12:32] » I can do seven if I'll make it work. That's fine.

[2:12:34] » If it's zoom, whatever. >> Yeah, if it's zoom, then I can take it

[2:12:37] from wherever. >> Yeah,

[2:12:39] » except the plane. >> Definitely be zoomed.

[2:12:44] barely this way. >> I will say I saw a guy across the aisle

[2:12:48] from me was on an actual Zoom. >> Really?

[2:12:50] » Yeah. >> How do you

[2:12:53] » just like listen like listening in like didn't say anything but

[2:12:57] » what? >> How do you do it?

[2:12:59] » You Wi-Fi. >> You just do it. They they don't block

[2:13:02] it. They tell you not to.

[2:13:07] » Don't get yourself taken out by scared people. Is that what I'm saying?

[2:13:10] » All right. Yep. >> All the time.

[2:13:13] » All right. Anything else on any?

[2:13:16] » Uh, no, that's it for that. All right. Any plan updates?

[2:13:19] » All right. So, just so from a process perspective,

[2:13:23] » so yeah, process I need the planning board to vote to recommend

[2:13:28] data set moratorum and change the date because I have a

[2:13:33] » you have December 31st of 2028. We have to vote that now without seeing uh the

[2:13:40] moratorium written up. >> It's it's in your share folder.

[2:13:45] » I thought that's what we were meeting for.

[2:13:48] » No, all the >> No, you're this is accelerated schedule.

[2:13:52] So, I put together the draft language for you to vote to recommend tonight.

[2:13:56] » Yep. >> And we would just have to swap the date

[2:14:00] out.

[2:14:04] » All right. So knowing that right >> 90% of us didn't read this yet.

[2:14:12] » You're not prepared. Do you think not? >> No. Not.

[2:14:19] » Okay. >> Well, 90% would mean that a half a

[2:14:23] person.

[2:14:26] Don't judge.

[2:14:31] Um, so what's the feeling from the board? Do you guys want to go through

[2:14:34] and read this now or do you want to vote on this in conjunction?

[2:14:39] » Well, so you I can help you out a little bit if you don't mind.

[2:14:43] » Please. >> This is sponsorship.

[2:14:46] » You have a chance to read it if you want to make amend adjustments. You could do

[2:14:51] that too. So it's not like closed out. It's just to start the bill process.

[2:14:56] Remember conjunction to two. Um

[2:15:01] » schoolhouse rock. >> Yeah. Come on now. We all know that.

[2:15:05] » I'm I'm going to need you to do a rendition of it for me. Please don't

[2:15:08] remind me. >> Just to be sure.

[2:15:12] » All right, that's enough. Never mind.

[2:15:15] » I thought it was conjunction junction. >> What's your

[2:15:18] » What's your function? >> Yeah, I'm thinking of the bill. But I'm

[2:15:20] » just a bell. >> Just a bill.

[2:15:24] » If we had an audience, we lost them. >> Okay. So, knowing that we can still edit

[2:15:32] this moving forward, >> I'm fine with making a recommendation.

[2:15:37] » Me, too. >> Then we can read it and let you know if

[2:15:40] we have any >> Yeah.

[2:15:41] » recommendations. >> All right. Looking for a motion to

[2:15:43] approve. >> Sponsor.

[2:15:46] » Sponsor a article for temporary moratorium on

[2:15:50] data centers. >> So move.

[2:15:52] » Second. >> Second.

[2:15:53] » All those in favor? I >> with a January 1st

[2:15:58] » January 1st 2028 expiration >> with a January 1st 2028 expiration

[2:16:04] » to that maybe a second motion or a friendly motion sorry

[2:16:08] » friendly amendment >> friendly amendment

[2:16:10] » to the moratorum >> excellent that's super

[2:16:14] » thank you a second >> second

[2:16:16] » all those in favor I >> super

[2:16:21] » super okay uh town planner updates >> uh Uh, I don't have any.

[2:16:26] » Um, now that we have a DPW person, are we finding that other guy

[2:16:30] » with that property? >> 28 Long

[2:16:32] » 28 Long Meadow. >> Uh, I got to sit down with DPW director

[2:16:36] and conservation agent and town council and town initi.

[2:16:40] » But they still continue to do what they're doing over there.

[2:16:43] » Not really, cuz they already did a whole new one.

[2:16:45] » It's all done now. >> So now it's just about building. No,

[2:16:48] » no, it's just there's a lot of uh walking horses by my house mostly now

[2:16:55] and I don't mind it, but my neighbors do cuz

[2:16:57] » What's that? >> And controversy over the horses sitting

[2:16:59] on the street. >> Yes, that's why. Exactly. Why? Yeah,

[2:17:01] they walk by my house. >> Sure. It's cute.

[2:17:05] » But I didn't realize that it was bothersome to so many.

[2:17:08] » Oh, there horses do that. >> Oh, yeah.

[2:17:11] » Well, so just in general, horses. >> I mean, all animals,

[2:17:14] » there's a book about this.

[2:17:20] I got you. >> All right.

[2:17:21] » So, yeah, that that was the only tough crowd right there.

[2:17:26] » It's getting late, folks. Um 2020 states meeting schedule typically second

[2:17:30] Tuesday of the month. We've got October 13th as our next well the September

[2:17:33] meeting that we just agreed to on the 28th and then following that up on

[2:17:39] » October 13th. >> Yep.

[2:17:41] » Mhm. >> That's

[2:17:43] » why the 13th. >> Do we have to agree?

[2:17:44] » Did you have a vote on? >> Yeah.

[2:17:47] Wait, why? Hold on before we get that. Why are we on the 13th instead of the

[2:17:50] 12th? >> Cuz it's the

[2:17:53] » What? >> We don't meet on Mondays.

[2:17:55] » What's up? >> 12th. Oh, I'm looking at 2027.

[2:17:59] » Wow, you're way ahead. >> Yeah. So, that that

[2:18:02] Jesus, did I do what I think I did? Did I?

[2:18:06] » Did you change your whole time to the wrong year?

[2:18:10] » Yeah. >> Time travel

[2:18:12] to the future. >> Hold on. Did you take a supersonic jet?

[2:18:16] » Am I free on the 28th? >> What are we doing on the 28th?

[2:18:20] » Nothing, apparently. >> No.

[2:18:24] » Guess what? >> We just said we're

[2:18:27] » No. No. >> Yeah. Nothing.

[2:18:29] » I got Oh, wait. Hold on. Sorry. >> On the 28th at 6:30, we're having our

[2:18:35] meeting on the public hearing for the >> the bylaws and the Nor the vote on the

[2:18:42] Norway farms. >> Yes. And then on the 29th, it's

[2:18:46] » Do I have time to advertise that? >> We got almost

[2:18:52] » 3 weeks.

[2:18:56] » It's all ready to >> Does it usually need two?

[2:19:02] » It's got to go out. >> Public size

[2:19:05] » before Friday. >> Hey, you have time.

[2:19:11] » Not a lot of time. >> Uh, no. I got to get it out this week.

[2:19:14] » Yeah. >> Okay.

[2:19:16] » All right. 28th still works. Fine. Good. Um, so the 13th, the 10th, and the 8th,

[2:19:22] how are we feeling about these 10:30 meetings?

[2:19:25] » 10:30. 6:30. I feel horrible about 10:30.

[2:19:30] » Every Monday, we're going to make a blood pack and we're going to think

[2:19:33] about what comes out of our mouth before we say it cuz I have so many different

[2:19:38] dates and times that are wrong in numbers and words.

[2:19:42] It's been a long day. >> Meetings November 10th.

[2:19:46] » Thank you. >> Thank you.

[2:19:47] » Oh, we got to change our meeting. >> So, you do have to change them.

[2:19:50] » You don't have to change that. >> But, um,

[2:19:52] » before you go there, October is 6:30. Okay.

[2:19:54] » 6:30. >> Mhm.

[2:19:56] » Yeah. >> I like 6:30.

[2:19:58] » You have to vote. >> It worked fine for me.

[2:20:01] » And then we'll >> You do need to vote it though.

[2:20:02] » All right. But hold on. Are we just doing a peace meal again? Like where we

[2:20:06] vote one or two of these or are we just moving it?

[2:20:08] » I'm safe. Move it. By memory serves, we voted the schedule for the year earlier

[2:20:12] on. Is that right? I think >> yeah. Um

[2:20:18] » I'm pretty sure doesn't matter. It could be. Do

[2:20:21] » you want to just vote it 6:30 till the end of the end of the year and then when

[2:20:25] we come out with a new schedule? >> All those in favor of moving the rest of

[2:20:29] our meetings to beginning at 6:30 as opposed to 700 p.m. Please.

[2:20:34] » I need a second. Someone I got to get out of here.

[2:20:38] So moved. So moved. Right. >> A motion. Second.

[2:20:41] » Second. >> All those in favor?

[2:20:43] » I. All right. This is deteriorating appropriately.

[2:20:46] » But now we have to move the meeting on the table, right?

[2:20:49] » Fantastic. Yeah. So, November 10th. >> Move it to the 17th.

[2:20:53] » I am in Florida. >> I think we have to go to the Well, we

[2:20:58] can't do the third cuz that's election day.

[2:20:59] » Yeah. >> If you guys do the 17th, I'll try to

[2:21:02] dial in. >> But don't we want to try and get one

[2:21:05] before town meeting? >> Oh. Oh. Oh. Right. right here.

[2:21:09] » Do you want Is the ninth too close? >> Oh, no.

[2:21:14] » Do we I mean, do we really We don't necessarily have to meet right before

[2:21:18] like anything that's >> No, anything will be done before that.

[2:21:23] » Yeah, but we typically like we go through flyers and whatever else just to

[2:21:27] make sure like presentations are set and all that stuff.

[2:21:30] » So, you could be on a Monday, right? >> What about the fourth?

[2:21:35] » Wednesday. >> Yeah.

[2:21:38] Uh >> cuz Tuesday's election day.

[2:21:41] » No, that's the conserv conservation. >> Yeah, conservation meets in here.

[2:21:46] » Well, we can just do Zoom. >> Oh,

[2:21:50] » yeah. But then you have to be in two places at

[2:21:54] once. Do you do conservation? >> I depending on what

[2:21:58] » I do have to do that one. >> Yeah.

[2:22:00] » Yeah. We have the pond treatment >> meeting. Go between the two rooms. I

[2:22:06] can't do the second and then that brings us back to October.

[2:22:11] So I don't know if that's worth it. So then literally I can't do the ninth

[2:22:14] either. So you can plan around me then.

[2:22:25] Fifth. No. Nope. Okay.

[2:22:36] And you said the ninth you can't do, right?

[2:22:38] » I can't know, but I'm happy to take myself out of it and provide comment

[2:22:44] ahead of time. >> We have a I have another option for you.

[2:22:49] » Let's get to October >> and then choose

[2:22:52] » and let's >> see where we're at.

[2:22:54] » See where we're at. >> What needs to happen? That makes sense.

[2:22:56] That's fine. >> Only if Betsy is okay thinking that she

[2:22:58] has to put up the notice 3 weeks later. We're good.

[2:23:02] » Feel like >> we should do create a claude skill that

[2:23:06] auto builds powerpoints based off of data that we give it and then those that

[2:23:11] last meeting is not necessary. >> It can it could do that.

[2:23:15] » Yeah. But like using your color scheme and everything

[2:23:18] » put the template in there. >> Yeah.

[2:23:20] » I'm pretty sure that's how my husband does all of his presentations now.

[2:23:24] » Some other unanticipated new business. >> No, we lost Dan.

[2:23:32] I'm looking for a motion to adjurnn. >> So, do

[2:23:36] » I have a second? >> Not doing it without Dan.

[2:23:39] » Oh, god damn you. I'm kidding. Sorry. Is that a second for me?

[2:23:42] » That was a second. >> All those in favor?

[2:23:44] » I >> I

[2:23:45] » All right. Thanks everybody. Have a good

Norfolk Planning Board Meeting - September 8, 2026

Transcript