[0:00] Oh, very >> perfect.

[0:03] » Okay. >> Okay.

[0:05] » It is 5:01 p.m. We have a quorum of 11 people and I'm going to call this

[0:12] meeting to order. My name is Lily Tryman. I am the town clerk and until we

[0:16] elect a chair and a vice chair, I am in charge of this meeting. Um, the first

[0:22] order on our agenda tonight is to elect a chair. Would anybody like to nominate

[0:27] someone for the position of chair? I would like to nominate Cheryl Lindsley.

[0:32] » Is there a second for that nomination? >> No second needed.

[0:35] » Oh, no second. Thank you for keeping me honest and straight about rules of

[0:39] procedure. >> Why is there no second meeting?

[0:43] » Because Robert's rule says no second needed when you nominate an office.

[0:48] » It's select board has done it that way. Right, Matt? I think we

[0:52] » Anybody else want to nominate anyone else for the position of chair?

[0:58] Seeing no other nominations, we need to do a roll call vote because we have an

[1:03] online presence today. So Kristen, could you please lead us off?

[1:07] » Yes. >> Uh Matt,

[1:10] » yes. >> Yep.

[1:11] » Going around. >> Yes.

[1:13] » Y >> I'm a yes.

[1:15] » Yep. >> Yes.

[1:17] » Yes. >> That is unanimous. And now I'm gonna

[1:19] hand it over to you for the vice chair. >> Okay. So, I would like to accept any

[1:24] nominations available for vice chair position. Anybody like to nominate

[1:29] someone? >> I'll nominate Pam Smith for vice chair.

[1:34] » Thank you.

[1:37] Anybody else wish to nominate anyone for vice chair?

[1:43] Okay, seeing none, uh, how do we vote? Matt,

[1:46] » yes. >> Elix,

[1:48] » yes. >> Emily,

[1:49] » yes. >> Yes.

[1:52] Yes. >> Yes. I

[1:56] » Oh, yes. Don't because we don't have a quorum.

[1:58] » It's a the quorum a majority of those present.

[2:02] » Okay. Good. And >> Kristen

[2:04] » Kristen. >> Yes.

[2:07] » Okay. So, we now have a chair and a vice chair. So,

[2:12] agenda is to review and approve the agenda.

[2:16] Is there any changes being offered on the agenda? Any changes? If not, I'll

[2:22] take a motion to approve it. >> Second. Thank you.

[2:29] » Hang on. >> Second.

[2:33] Do you have a

[2:37] » sorry

[2:41] » to approve the agenda as submitted and Ernie seconded that?

[2:47] Any discussion? Seeing none, I'll um I'll do the roll

[2:51] call. Matt, >> yes.

[2:55] » Emily, >> sorry.

[2:56] » Okay, I'm calling all the names. Carlin, >> Lily,

[2:59] » yes. >> Ernie, yes. Pam,

[3:02] » David, Cheryl, yes. Okay,

[3:07] » I thought I Oh, she it was the owl, not >> sorry.

[3:12] » All right, so we've done that. On to the next item, which is the approval of the

[3:16] minutes for January 6th, 2025. our last meeting and they were sent out by town

[3:24] clerk. >> Everybody's had a chance to review them.

[3:29] Does anybody have any edits that they noted?

[3:35] » I don't have a copy of the agenda. >> Okay. Elix made a motion to approve the

[3:39] minutes. >> I'll second.

[3:40] » Pam Smith second. Okay. Any further discussion? Matt, how

[3:45] do you vote? Um, if I wasn't there, I wasn't part of these minutes. Can I

[3:49] still wasn't part of

[3:55] » So, we can see how it goes.

[4:03] » I think it's your comfort level. >> Okay.

[4:07] » Yes. >> Emily, yes.

[4:11] » Yes. and that >> David.

[4:16] » Okay. So, we only have one abstension now.

[4:21] » So, the uh minutes are approved and we can get those finalized by some

[4:29] time in December. Great. >> Okay. according to the rules of

[4:34] procedure. Uh the meeting uh the um abatement

[4:38] meeting has been called to order already by the town clerk at the beginning. Um

[4:46] the abatement hearing is for

[4:52] Judith Van >> D

[4:55] » D. Miller who lives at 177 New Boston Road in Norwich. And the partial ID

[5:01] number is 10-113.0000.

[5:07] I would like to ask the individual here with us um does she have the paperwork

[5:12] you needed for >> Okay. Thank you for bringing that just

[5:16] to raise your hand and take the following oath please. That under the

[5:19] pains and penalties of purge solemnly swear that the evidence you give in the

[5:25] cause under consideration shall be the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

[5:30] Thank you. Miss document for her to see it.

[5:33] » She has it. >> She has it. Okay, great.

[5:37] » Sounds like the doorbell rang. >> Yeah, I chemo is here.

[5:40] » Okay. >> The witness.

[5:42] » Yes.

[5:47] » All right. The next item under the procedures is to request that are any

[5:52] members here any conflict of interest? Does anyone have a conflict of interest

[5:55] or any exparte communication that has taken place with the opponent?

[6:04] » Seeing none. All right. And I'll ask the appellent if you have received the rules

[6:09] of procedure and you understand them. Any questions?

[6:12] » Okay. Great. Well, from there we go right on to

[6:16] asking you to identify the statutory abatement category and your request for

[6:21] abatement. And you have about 10 minutes or less.

[6:27] » Yes, ma'am. >> We can do that. Sure. Would that be

[6:31] helpful to everybody? Sure. Let's go around and introduce ourselves and how

[6:35] we're part of the board of abatement in the town of Norwich. Matt, I'm going to

[6:39] start >> public justice of the peace.

[6:44] facility. >> Suzanne Lighter, Justice

[6:48] Corin Johnson, >> Lily Chryman, town clerk and board of

[6:52] abatement clerk. Cheryl Lindberg, I am treasurer and blister Kelly. Listister

[6:58] and JP

[7:01] » Dave Kriml, justice of the peace. >> Thank you. El

[7:04] » Christ, justice of the peace. [laughter] >> Teemo Greg's select board member.

[7:12] » Perfect. Now we've done everyone >> I think so. Yeah.

[7:14] » Okay. Great. So now please proceed. >> Okay. Amy Everheart. I'm Judy Miller's

[7:21] daughter. Um she and I represented her quarter here. And um so the I guess the

[7:28] story is we paid our what we thought were our taxes in September duties

[7:32] taxes. Um and then my prior to that my father died about a year ago. So their

[7:40] taxes were filed for abstension and we finally got them filed not until

[7:48] September based on through the ordeal of the death. Um so when the taxes were

[7:54] filed in September I understand that there was not an extension made on the

[7:58] homestead act we didn't have any idea about that. Um, and so when we paid our

[8:06] normage taxes in September, we then got a late fee in October saying that we

[8:11] hadn't paid our full taxes, which was not our intention. Um, so then I filed a

[8:16] request to say we thought we paid our taxes and then we got a fee saying we

[8:21] didn't pay the full amount because you filed for an extension, but you didn't

[8:27] actually know what. >> So I think one one I just interrupt

[8:31] quickly. the one piece, it's the HS122 form that doesn't get extended with the

[8:37] extension of a tax return. So, by not filing that on April 15th or before that

[8:43] when it finally gets filed is late filed and that's what created the penalty.

[8:49] » Yeah. And so that's the part that um was news to us and I I don't know whether

[8:55] the tax accountant should have been the person to tell us that or whether the

[8:58] town should have told us that. No, it's part of the forms [clears throat] for

[9:02] anybody's tax return. So, it's in the directions that says, you know, you if

[9:07] you can extend your return, but you may not extend the HS122 filing.

[9:11] » Yeah. >> So, that has to be done by April 15th or

[9:14] whatever that date is right around there that the state asks.

[9:17] » Yeah. So it's >> so in her case I guess there wasn't

[9:20] there wasn't ability to do that if >> if our child was late um due to the

[9:25] death because you know figuring out where the information was if my parents

[9:30] and [clears throat] my mother doesn't live there moved her to assisted living.

[9:35] So, there was a bit of paperwork that was

[9:37] » Yeah, we had a scrambling going. >> Yeah, I I guess I should have done that,

[9:41] but I have not asked her whether she knew that or why she didn't

[9:46] probably should have had before this meeting, I guess. But I don't know why

[9:49] she didn't that. Nevertheless, she didn't file for September. We got news

[9:54] that we were late. Was not our intention to do that. Um, and we ask that the town

[9:59] wave those% I think and then the additional 1% that

[10:05] slate as of now. I would like to pay what you

[10:09] » sure that just wondering if they would wave the the fee because it wasn't a bit

[10:16] of a problem getting over there. >> So, did you um identify a category for

[10:22] your abatement that you wanted us to use for the request? I I didn't see a

[10:27] written >> thing other than what Brennan sent.

[10:30] » Brennan just sent the hardship. >> The hardship

[10:32] » hardship. Yeah. >> I guess that's was

[10:35] » a homestead penalty based on hardship that nobody came to.

[10:38] » Yeah. >> Yeah. It says here's hardship in the

[10:40] case of the death of her spouse which came from Bren.

[10:48] » So the appeal is a hardship or not. I think in the statute does it have

[10:56] » identify >> you don't when it's a hardship on the

[10:59] homestead penalty you don't have to that that is the basis for the

[11:03] » okay >> that's when it's coming to abatement

[11:05] rather than for the lister it is right >> there's none of the statutory reasons

[11:11] need apply just the hardship based on the

[11:14] » death okay I can I can understand that all right and anything else you want to

[11:20] share before we ask for any questions that people might have.

[11:25] » I think that's it. Yeah, we'd like to pay the full amount,

[11:30] » but request that the penalty be waved. Yeah, understood. Okay,

[11:35] » so I'll look around for anybody that have a question.

[11:38] » Just just what is the penalty?

[11:50] » Yeah. And the total now is over 800 something that is owed. I think I

[11:59] » So what we're looking at right now is the amount that was in the

[12:04] » amount as of October 14 because of

[12:08] » 41828 was the penalty for the late filing of the HS122.

[12:14] » I will add one other thing was that we got two different bills. So after we

[12:18] were late, we then got one bill and we got another bill. Um so I didn't come

[12:22] right in with because I didn't know which bill to pay. Um and then since

[12:27] then we filed with you to prove that be be reduced. So I don't actually we we

[12:33] clarified on email which one it was, but we did receive two different bills which

[12:37] sort of added to the confusion. It does because what happened was you went from

[12:41] a nonh homestead tax rate which is lower in Norwich. Yeah. Then the homestead tax

[12:46] rate which is was on the revised bill. So you now are build as a homestead. So

[12:53] that's a higher tax rate >> than the non and then you got the

[12:56] penalty was assigned as well. >> So the additional taxes are due

[13:01] » for the homestead rate >> right

[13:04] » calculation. I think it may have been calculated

[13:08] » time. So one once on October 2nd and then again on October

[13:15] right after that. Um will she receive a revised tax bill once the decision is

[13:21] made if we decide to remove this penalty? Does she get a a revised tax

[13:26] bill? >> Yes.

[13:28] » Okay. So that would give a final amount. >> Okay.

[13:32] » Yeah. [clears throat] I think that would I have I have all the bills but that

[13:36] would be useful because I don't actually know which one it is at this point.

[13:39] » Okay. >> Right. So if there's any other

[13:43] um delay in payment that created a 1% interest amount that's not what we would

[13:49] be addressing here today that I'm aware of. We're just addressing the the

[13:53] penalty for the late filing of the HSN. >> So there's no because it's November. I

[13:59] was hoping to pay it right away, but because it's November, it's now 2%, I

[14:03] believe. Is that right, Carol? >> Well, it's 1% a month.

[14:06] » 1% per each month. >> For each month for the first three

[14:09] months, right, on that first payment. >> Yeah. Right.

[14:12] » That that be waved as well because I was I would be happy to paid it in October

[14:17] 1st. Um I was just waiting for this meeting to happen before I knew how

[14:21] much. >> So the So both things, the two 1% bills

[14:27] plus the the the 4% of the homestead that

[14:32] » is that a delivery discussion.

[14:36] » I guess it is. >> I think it is.

[14:40] » I mean, you're ch you're essentially we've been looking at this as the 4%

[14:44] penalty abatement is what's before us. Whether that can change now in in your

[14:50] request, we to deliberate on that after the meeting and decide. Okay.

[14:55] » Isn't the interest part of the penalty? >> No.

[14:59] No, the interest is a separate calculation from the 4% late file

[15:04] penalty which is what was in front of us today.

[15:08] » But wouldn't it be on the difference between the homestead and the non-h

[15:11] homestead rates that the percent 1% is on that difference in the tax

[15:16] amount because of the change of category?

[15:19] » No, there's not a penalty for

[15:24] so your first bill is at the non-h homestead rate lower. right

[15:28] » now. You get the penalty for the filing late and then you get your revised tax

[15:34] bill. To my knowledge, there is no no interest calculation done at that

[15:40] moment. >> But then when interest [clears throat]

[15:42] does come along, it's only on the additional taxes due at the home

[15:47] » that first payment, right? So let's say it was $200 more was due from non-h

[15:52] homestead to homestead. Then the calculation is 4% on the education taxes

[15:59] [clears throat] and then the payment would be set for a

[16:03] payment date which you should make sure you you know you come in and and address

[16:08] the payment date with finance and then you would know to pay the additional

[16:13] amount and avoid an interest charge >> by that that new due date when interest

[16:20] would then be charged again. So, I think that's what I believe is the way it

[16:25] would work. Um, because your revised bill is really taking you from

[16:29] non-homestead to homestead. That's the main leap.

[16:33] » And then you got to then you have to pay that extra amount for the first payment.

[16:37] » Yeah. >> To get caught up on the first payment.

[16:40] » So, there's going to be additional payment due either way. And

[16:43] » and the February payment will flush out to be the full homestead calculation.

[16:49] Yeah. Now, in your mom's case, there may be a little bit of both nonhomestead and

[16:53] homestead. >> Yeah.

[16:55] » Does do she have any rentals on her property?

[16:58] » No. Okay. Then she won't. It'll be all homestead.

[17:01] » Yeah. I I think the maybe this is just not understanding it fully. So, we

[17:08] wouldn't have received a late fee at 1% if we had we didn't intend to have that.

[17:13] We felt we're paying our bill. So to have that be waved and then the second

[17:18] one I didn't pay because I was waiting for this meeting. So those two things

[17:22] were sort of I guess they guess my fault if I should have come in and pay them

[17:26] but I was thinking that they were also iron out the 4% because those are not

[17:31] related to me not paying the original one.

[17:35] So and that could be amended as >> so may I just find out did you make the

[17:40] first payment on time? >> Yes.

[17:44] » Yeah. And that was the the tax bill we received. We paid our

[17:48] » Yeah. >> Yeah. But then we received an amended

[17:50] one October 3rd. >> And we did have not paid that one

[17:54] because that's the one we were agreeing to based on the

[17:57] » So it's my understanding that you have 30 days from a revised tax bill to pay

[18:02] the new amount. That would be my understanding because that's the normal

[18:06] amount of time a taxpayer has to pay the original property tax bill first

[18:12] payment. 30 days from the date of mailing. The second payment is due in

[18:16] February, which is way more than 30 days ahead of schedule. So, that's my

[18:21] understanding of it. So, I guess when you got the revised bill, you had 30

[18:25] days to catch up that first payment was what you had.

[18:28] » But then, and maybe it was me misunderstanding, but we were grieving

[18:31] that payment, >> which is why it

[18:37] » No, you're not grieving the payment of the taxes because the taxes

[18:40] » Oh, but it was unclear which which one was which because it's the total bill is

[18:45] $81 which is partly this >> penalty

[18:48] » this penalty. >> Yes.

[18:49] » So that that the bill that came to me included all and I did not go in and say

[18:55] I'll pay part of it. I wait I was waiting I was thinking I was waiting

[18:58] till the end of this meeting to determine what do I pay and then I pay

[19:01] it. >> Yeah.

[19:02] » So that I guess is my question. How can we lump them all together and figure

[19:06] that out? >> Yeah. Yeah,

[19:08] » I think part of the 801 though is that new homestead rate. So I would like to

[19:14] understand if you have a number of how much was charged for just the interest,

[19:20] the 1% interest. >> I don't have that clearly. I do have the

[19:24] bills that there is interest, but maybe I think I share a little probably know

[19:29] better, but I've got I have two bills that were said um an 803 sent on the 2nd

[19:36] of October and an 811 sent on the 3rd of November, but they're they don't um

[19:43] there's a principle and an interest. So, they don't to me it doesn't

[19:47] differentiate what my fees are versus 803 to 811. That's about $8. 1% of

[19:55] » 1%. So that second 1% though. >> So we're we may be only talking $8 or

[20:00] $16. >> Yeah. Yeah.

[20:05] » Elite says there's a hand up. >> If you're non homestead, I hear home. If

[20:10] you're not homestead, I hear homestead. Can someone clarify for me? Was it

[20:15] originally home? And now what's the difference? Why would it change?

[20:19] » Yes, I can explain that. So when they received their first tax bill, their

[20:23] HS1, her HS122 was not filed. So she was build at the nonhomestead tax

[20:31] rate. As soon as the accountant put through the paperwork in September,

[20:38] it triggered the tax return being filed and the accountant included the HS122 at

[20:45] that point that needed to be filed on April 15th. Period. So then the tax bill

[20:51] that came out based on this new filing of the HS122 took her from nonh

[20:59] homestead over to homestead >> was a higher higher amount now

[21:03] » higher tax rate >> tax rate but what's a nonh homestead

[21:07] than what's a homestead >> like percentage

[21:10] » so if it's your second house if it's your second house in Norwich and you're

[21:14] not living there as your primary residence that's a nonh homestead if you

[21:18] live in your house and you live there most of the year. That's your homestead

[21:22] and you pay that rate. >> It's your principal dwelling.

[21:27] [clears throat] >> But in this case, your mom's an assisted

[21:29] living. She has since moved in but not >> this was as of April 1st of 2025 that

[21:35] this is asking for that HS122 as of April.

[21:40] » The taxes were she was not a homestead. So it was a lower tax and then the

[21:45] revision was a higher tax. No, >> I get that part, but I'm trying to

[21:49] understand the difference. >> Okay.

[21:50] » Yeah. >> Okay, fair enough.

[21:52] » So, the error came with us not filing on time partly because we get all things.

[22:01] » Okay, good discussion on everything. Anybody

[22:06] have a further question? >> Anybody online have a question?

[22:10] » Anybody Oh, is anybody online? I'm hoping Lily's watching those folks.

[22:13] Anybody have a question? No, they see me have the

[22:18] » chemo. No, >> no.

[22:22] » Okay, thanks. >> Yep.

[22:24] » All right. Well, if there are no further questions, then I thank you for coming

[22:28] and we will close the hearing. We will deliberate afterwards tonight

[22:32] » and we will send you our decision within 30 days.

[22:36] » Okay, great. So, do I pay my bills?

[22:43] You know, It's probably good to check in with the

[22:48] finance office and see where you can catch up on things to avoid anything

[22:51] further. And by the way, as an aside, anytime you overpay, it going to get

[22:56] credited to the February payment because within the year. So if, for example, you

[23:01] now have overpaid because you might have paid some of the penalty, it'll get

[23:04] credited to the February and it'll stay on your on her account.

[23:09] » Yeah. >> So I could come in and pay before I

[23:12] you're effect. You could >> and to clarify if it gets taken out of

[23:18] the February bill she would she get a new February bill for clarifying or she

[23:23] actually >> Yep. Yep. She'll have a new bill. Yes.

[23:27] To look at and know that

[23:32] » do they actually print a new bill or does she contact finance and ask them

[23:36] what what is the final number? If so, the decision we make tonight will

[23:43] be determining whether there's a revised tax bill or not. Correct. Correct.

[23:46] » So, we're getting into territory. We need to move, you know, finish up the

[23:50] meeting and then discuss. >> So, the [clears throat] next fee would

[23:53] come December 1st. >> I should pay it before that. That right?

[23:58] » Say that again. >> The next 1% would come on December 1st.

[24:01] » Well, I'm not sure the calculation date, but it sounds like that would be the

[24:05] typical one. Although again, as I said earlier, with a revised tax bill, I

[24:10] would have thought somebody had 30 days from the issuance of the bill to make

[24:14] that payment >> without additional interest being

[24:18] charged. >> Now, I realize I'm not in the finance

[24:21] office and I don't make those decisions, but it just makes me think that's what

[24:26] should happen. >> Okay.

[24:28] » But >> great. Well, thank you.

[24:32] » Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. and thank you for being here and helping us

[24:35] on this. >> I can take both of us in sun pass,

[24:39] please. Thank you very much. Thank you. >> All right. Um,

[24:46] » pass it down here. >> So, I will um

[24:51] » Yeah, >> you told me an excellent story about a

[24:55] monkey on a ship once. >> Oh, yeah. I'm sure it didn't fall off

[24:58] the ship or something. >> I think he killed it at some point or it

[25:01] was taken it was taken ashore and killed is what I remember.

[25:05] » I remember but I did like to tell it.

[25:09] » Okay. [laughter]

[25:13] » Yeah, that one. Wow. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thanks so much.

[25:19] » So, is there a motion to adjurnn? >> Motion to adjourn. So move

[25:25] » seconded. >> Second

[25:27] » anybody that wants to hear a sec. >> I got a leak.

[25:30] » Okay. >> Anyway, um

[25:33] » so that's not debatable. Elix, how do you vote?

[25:37] » Matt, >> yes.

[25:39] » Emily, >> yes.

[25:40] » Yes. >> Yes. Corin and Lily.

[25:43] » Yes. >> Cheryl, yes.

[25:46] » David, >> yes.

[25:47] » Okay, close. It is >> what time? 528

[25:51] » online >> online and

[25:54] » yes [laughter]

[25:58] » and Kristen shook her head there >> I'm gonna stop the recording uh

[26:02] » we adjourn to >> finish the

20251125 Board of Abatement Meeting

Transcript