[10:24] Good morning everyone. Um 11:30. This is the August 20th meeting

[10:31] of the historic Ohio City Design Review Advisory Committee. So I will uh just go

[10:36] through our preamble. Then we'll have uh call the meeting to order and do a roll

[10:41] call and then get into the agenda. Um, so to go through the virtual meeting

[10:46] regulations and procedures, actions during the meeting will be taken by roll

[10:50] call vote. Recuseable due to a conflict of interest should be stated for the

[10:53] record prior to the start of any presentation. The recused committee

[10:56] member will then leave the meeting for the duration of the case discussion. The

[11:00] chair will call the meeting to order and ask for a roll call of the committee.

[11:03] The administrator will introduce the first project. The meeting will then be

[11:07] turned over to the applicant to proceed through their presentation. Each

[11:10] presentation should be completed prior to questions and comments from the

[11:13] committee. And once the presentation is concluded, the administrator will

[11:17] provide background information and read any received public comments. Uh the

[11:21] committee will then begin deliberations and project review. Please use the

[11:25] raised hand feature if you'd like to speak. After deliberations and review

[11:28] concludes, the committee will render its recommendation and/or motion. The

[11:32] applicant may leave the meeting after their project review is complete. All

[11:36] projects will follow the same format until all projects are heard by the

[11:38] committee. Once all projects are heard, the chair will call for any

[11:41] committee/administrator reports. And after all reports have been heard, the

[11:45] chair will adjourn the meeting. Regarding community comments, any and

[11:50] all community members may provide their written comments, thoughts, or questions

[11:52] regarding projects presented to the committee. Community members may also

[11:56] telephone their comments or questions to the administrator. All comments,

[12:00] thoughts, or questions must be submitted to the committee administrator no later

[12:03] than 48 hours prior to the start of the meeting. Public comment received after

[12:07] the deadline will not be heard by the committee. Public comment will be

[12:11] collected by Landmark staff and sent to the committee members for review prior

[12:15] to the scheduled meeting. Landmark staff will summarize the received comments

[12:19] during the meeting. The applicant of the project is under no obligation to answer

[12:22] any community questions. Community members are invited to attend the design

[12:27] review advisory committee meetings, but there will be no open public comment

[12:30] period. Regarding design review guidelines, all projects are being

[12:34] reviewed using the Secretary of the Interior Standards for Rehabilitation

[12:38] and are being considered for the issuance of a certificate of

[12:40] appropriateness. All projects are considered on a case-by case basis.

[12:44] Presentations were received and distributed to committee members for

[12:47] review prior to the scheduled meeting. Changes to the presentation after

[12:51] confirmation of receipt by Landmark staff are not shown here today. The

[12:55] Historic Ohio City Design Review Advisory Committee makes recommendations

[12:59] to the Cleveland Landmarks Commission. These recommendations are not final

[13:02] actions. Depending on the scope of the project, submissions may be approved

[13:07] administratively or will need to be reviewed by the Cleveland Landmarks

[13:10] Commission. If that's the case, projects will be scheduled the next available

[13:14] commission meeting after an action is taken. As always, we have the Secretary

[13:18] of the Interior standards here available for uh reference if anyone needs me to

[13:22] pull those up at a later point during the meeting.

[13:26] Um, so with that, I'm not seeing

[13:34] our chairwoman here. Um, it looks like we may be short on forum.

[13:48] Yeah, it looks like we um don't have quorum at this point. Um,

[13:56] but I guess in the interest of of moving projects along, um, I think most of our

[14:01] projects today were, uh, we'll need to go to the the Landmarks Commission for a

[14:05] variety of issues anyway. So, um, uh, Margaret, do you mind stepping in as

[14:11] chair? >> Sure thing.

[14:15] » All right. Thank you. And I apologize, my uh camera isn't working. whenever I

[14:19] go from move my computer around and plug things

[14:23] back in, they never seem to work. So, you guys luck out today. Um, but uh,

[14:28] yeah, in the interest of moving things along, I think we should proceed to the

[14:31] first case, which is case HOC26-32 at 1701 West 25th Street, uh, murals

[14:38] across the city public art. here.

[14:43] » Should we call the roll at this point before the presenter or do you want to

[14:48] wait till we have quorum? >> Um I mean we could we could call it now

[14:54] and then um I guess just make notes or note if we end up having form. It looks

[15:00] like Nia just showed up. Um yeah, let's let's go ahead and call

[15:06] roll. >> Okay. And if Nia is here, I'll

[15:10] relinquish the position of chair back to her when she's ready.

[15:14] » Yes. Thanks. Sorry, guys. I'm very back to back today, so I'm here.

[15:19] » Perfect.

[15:32] Dan, do you want to call the role?

[15:36] Oh.

[15:40] think we've lost Dan.

[15:44] » Hi. Sorry about that. I I got a notification that I had a network issue.

[15:49] So, um hopefully I didn't miss too much. Um

[15:54] yeah, I was just starting to to try and call a roll. Um Miss Anderson

[16:01] » here and Miss Flary, Mr. Fondorf,

[16:09] Miss Lamb >> here,

[16:12] » Mr. Miller, Miss Myers,

[16:18] Mr. Persons,

[16:22] and Miss Marinucci >> here.

[16:26] » India. Um, and Mr. Franorf.

[16:34] All right. Um we'll we'll thank you Margaret. We'll turn things over to uh

[16:39] Miss Marinucci now. Um we are still one member short on quorum but I think in

[16:44] the interest of um moving things along we should proceed through this at least

[16:49] through the first project. Um since it's public art it will be going to the

[16:52] landmarks commission anyway. So you guys can still provide feedback on it and if

[16:56] we end up with forum um I can just make a note when when the discussion starts

[17:01] if we end up with the uh the final number. So um so yeah first office case

[17:08] HC26-32 1701 West 25th Street murals across the

[17:13] city um as mention I think we have Courtney Vargo here and then Tara Petus

[17:21] from the city's public art coordinator here. So, um, and Alex from, uh,

[17:28] downtown Cleveland or sorry, destination Cleveland. Um, but yeah,

[17:34] I'll let you guys, uh, go ahead and go through your presentation. Just let me

[17:37] know when you'd like me to advance the slides.

[17:39] » Okay. Thank you.

[17:47] » Sorry, I can't see see the slides. Should I be able to see the slides?

[17:53] Oh, I sorry. I think when I got kicked off the um network, [clears throat] it

[17:57] stopped sharing my screen. Let me try. Is that better?

[17:59] » There you go. >> Okay. All right. I apologize.

[18:02] » No, no worries at all. Well, good morning everybody. My name is Courtney

[18:05] Vargo. I'm uh with Destination Cleveland. And what I have for you all

[18:08] today um as previously mentioned is a work of public art. This is on uh 1701

[18:13] West 25th Street. Very approximate to the future Irishtown Ben site. Um and

[18:18] CHA's uh welcome center there on 25th Street. Next slide, please.

[18:24] Um so here are some previous examples of a project that we call murals across the

[18:29] city. This project has been going on for three years now and we've um

[18:33] successfully installed completed um nine works of original public art

[18:38] commissioned by local artists in a myriad of different um Cleveland

[18:42] neighborhoods. Pictured here, these are the murals from our first year. Um just

[18:47] kind of throwing this in here because the first year we did do all what you

[18:50] think of as a traditional mural, right? So paint on brick. Um so just examples

[18:54] from the first year, paint on brick. The next slide

[18:58] um shows our murals from last year which uh we we changed uh switch up our

[19:04] process a little bit to use a heat applied vinyl product.

[19:08] Um did this for several reasons. Chief among them, you know, the material is is

[19:13] a bit kinder to to the brick. Um it can be repaired very easily. It just is

[19:19] again it's kind of like heat shrunk onto the building. Um building owners like

[19:23] this, the city tends to like it. It's a similar lifespan to a painted mural.

[19:27] Obviously dependent on sun exposure and things of that sort, but um these are

[19:32] our murals last year. All heat applied vinyl. We were able to kind of work

[19:35] around some of the obstructions on those buildings

[19:38] um pretty successfully there. I don't know if there's anything else I want to

[19:41] mention there. Yep, this is great. So, this is again just a material slide

[19:44] showing another example of kind of a process photo how that gets applied.

[19:49] Um, we also like this material because it does open us up to artists that are

[19:54] not just skilled in painting large scale m scale murals, right? That's kind of a

[19:59] smaller subset of people. Um, so this is really great because it opens this up to

[20:03] almost anybody who can, you know, digitally design a mural and then it

[20:06] gets large format printed and heat applied. Um, and then repair is, you

[20:11] know, really easy. It's just kind of removal by reheating. So if a single

[20:15] section gets damaged, we're able just to replace it section by section. Next

[20:19] slide. And here's a little bit more about our

[20:24] process. So um we start out by releasing a call for artists. We ask for any local

[20:28] artists that would like to share their work with us um to do so. We then

[20:33] evaluate those applications and kind of pair it down so that we can then give

[20:37] building owners that we're working with a smaller rate. You know, we we've

[20:40] gotten 100 plus applicants from this project in years past. This year I

[20:43] believe it was around 70. So um just kind of whittling down that number. Um

[20:47] we got to about 10 artists that we put in front of building owners um and kind

[20:52] of did sort of like a matchmaking process there.

[20:55] Artists then create a design once they're chosen for you know the specific

[21:00] wall um using a destination Cleveland brand phrase and then we kind of share

[21:04] that out with you all. That's where we're at today. um you know in in kind

[21:10] of the the share out stage, city permits and entitlement stage and then after

[21:14] that we work through install. Next slide please.

[21:20] Here's a bit about our artist. Um Nigel um he goes by days or days one. Um he's

[21:27] really a multid-disciplinary artist. I'd be surprised if you haven't seen his

[21:30] work around town. So we're really excited to bring some of his work um to

[21:34] this neighborhood in this specific building. Next slide, please.

[21:40] And now we're going to go through some context photos. So again, this is the

[21:43] CHA like welcome center. So we're on the corner of Flint Franklin and West 25th

[21:48] Street. Um this is just out of view. Here is again where the future Irishtown

[21:52] Ben Park is. Um you can see Ohio City Farm there on the right hand side of

[21:57] your screen. And that orange block is the wall that we're looking at, which I

[22:01] do kind of want to call out because some of the context photos, I did my best,

[22:04] but some of the context photos can get sort of confusing which wall we're

[22:07] working with. You see the buildings are kind of like stacked there. Um, so just

[22:11] calling that out. Next slide, please.

[22:17] And we can kind of run through these. Here's looking north. Downtown is sort

[22:20] of just out of view there. Here's looking a little bit more towards

[22:25] down downtown, more to the northeast. The wall is off to your right in this

[22:29] picture.

[22:34] Um, looking northeast. Again, this is just kind of zoomed out. This this green

[22:38] rectangle is the wall we're looking at here.

[22:43] Now, we're looking down West 25th Street. I have that that wall xed out

[22:47] just so it's clear that's not the wall we're um looking at today. And if if

[22:51] that's relevant um hard to see in this photo, but there's actually a set of

[22:54] stairs there. install would be really difficult and visibil visibility is a

[22:58] little bit more limited on this wall. So if there's any curiosity that's why we

[23:01] didn't go for that one. Next slide please.

[23:07] Some more context photos again. Um and maybe now is a good time to call out

[23:11] just some of those obstructions. You can kind of see um there's like a tree that

[23:16] was not you know anything that was planted by CHA or otherwise it's just

[23:19] kind of one of those rogue um trees that pop up. So that's a that's a discussion

[23:23] we've had with CHA. Um and you know that would all get cleared out so installs

[23:29] very easy. Um yeah,

[23:36] here we are looking west down Franklin. And then here is the facade at a better

[23:43] closer up view for you all.

[23:47] And here's our design. Um, so here's kind of the design that we we'd uh love

[23:52] you to see today. This again is designed by a local artist. We designed it in

[23:56] conjunction with CHA. They were you know huge um you know obviously part of this

[24:01] project from the very beginning. They really challenged us to um you know

[24:06] create a design that was all about resilience and the city's resilience and

[24:11] the specific areas resilience. And so we think DAZ did a really great job of

[24:14] incorporating all of that. It's colorful. It's fun. You know, you see

[24:18] Riverview there in the back. Um, so we'll see that rendered here in a couple

[24:23] slides onto the wall.

[24:28] And I just I just reduce transparency here just so you could see um

[24:35] that I guess that there's no obstructions on this wall. Normally I do

[24:37] that because there is an obstruction actually, but so we'd be kind of in

[24:40] between um the vent there. So this is about a 10 by 20 uh block. So 10 10 feet

[24:46] by 20 feet wide.

[24:51] Um and then just just another shout out to um CHA. You know, they were huge

[24:55] institutional partner for us in this. Um were so gracious that they, you know,

[25:00] allowed us to work with them on on putting something on this wall. Again,

[25:03] really wanted something that celebrates Cleveland's resiliency. Um and we

[25:07] actually worked with them to create a custom sort of brand phrase that you see

[25:09] in there. um forged by pressure rooted in resilience something of the likes. Um

[25:15] so very thankful to CHA. I don't know if this is included in our application

[25:20] packet but we did also receive letters of support from Councilman Davis and

[25:24] from Ohio City Inc. So many thanks for that. Um

[25:29] and sorry I think the only other thing I didn't mention and we can go back to the

[25:32] the rendering slide or the design slide whichever you'd like. Um, just this

[25:36] wall, I don't have a picture of it, but you can, you know, if you go back on

[25:39] street view, you can see that there was previously public art on this wall. Um,

[25:43] so we're happy to kind of bring that back as the neighborhood's kind of

[25:46] getting redefined with, you know, Irishtown Ben and so many other

[25:49] projects. So, with that, I'll I don't know, pass it over to Tara, open it up

[25:52] for comments. But, thank you all.

[25:56] » Thank you, Courtney. Um, I love this artwork. I feel like it looks it it

[26:02] feels historic and fresh at the same time with the artist rendering. Um and I

[26:07] do recall the previous public art that was on that wall. I actually

[26:11] participated in that project um with CHA and um an architect Malaz LG GMA and it

[26:19] was um wheat paste of various community members from around the area. Um, I

[26:25] wanted to know about the dis if there's going to be a descriptive plaque and

[26:30] where that would be. Um, and also I just wanted to read an excerpt from uh,

[26:37] Councilman Davis's support letter. Um, it says, "This project reflects the kind

[26:42] of visible community investment that helps strengthen Cleveland's public

[26:45] spaces and reinforces the momentum taking shape along the Kyhoga

[26:50] Riverfront. Riverview Tower and Riverview Welcome Center have stood as

[26:53] longtime fixtures in the community. And as Irish Town Band continues to develop

[26:58] into a once in a generation riverfront park and destination, this project

[27:02] offers a way to further connect this area to Cleveland's past, present, and f

[27:06] future. Destination Cleveland CHA and local Cleveland Artist Days One have

[27:10] worked together to develop a Cleveland positive mural that celebrates the

[27:14] city's resilience, creativity, and pride. The proposed artwork would bring

[27:18] new energy to a highly visible site near one of the city's most recognizable

[27:21] riverfront views while complementing ongoing efforts to make the Irishtown

[27:26] bin area more welcoming, vibrant, and connected.

[27:30] Um, so I just wanted to share that. Um, but I also appreciate that the tagline

[27:39] um, destinations brand uh, line is less prominent and the artwork is the hero.

[27:46] And I think that's very important with integrating artwork into these

[27:49] neighborhoods is that the artwork be the hero and just get less branding. So, I

[27:55] think this does a good job of keeping that balance and I'm um, highly in

[28:00] support. Thank you. >> Thank you, Tara. And I'll address just

[28:03] your comment about um the plaque. I mean, I'd hesitate to call it a plaque,

[28:06] right? But um on these murals, we do typically pair somewhere close to it.

[28:10] So, in this case, it would just be, you know, below that vent. Um we'll also

[28:15] install a small QR code. I say small, but you know, a QR code um where folks

[28:20] can scan, learn more about the project, um you know, see the artist and read the

[28:24] artist statement. So, um in that way, yes, we will we will have a way for

[28:28] folks to kind of find out more about this work and why why it's here. Yep. I

[28:32] think that would be a great opportunity too to maybe put the branding in the

[28:37] descriptive plaque or panels to describe what's going on in the actual artwork.

[28:43] Thank you. >> Thanks.

[28:53] » I just had one question. Um, does the wall need any kind of maintenance or

[28:59] repair, any repointing or anything before the mural goes on?

[29:03] » Um, no. To to our assessment, and we'll obviously do a final sitewalk out there

[29:08] with CHA before install and with our installer um that we use for these, but

[29:13] no, no tuck pointings needed. It's really just more sight considerations in

[29:16] terms of that tree and it's it's, you know, ground's a little uneven there.

[29:20] Um, so we just want to make sure it's a good install site in other ways. We'll

[29:26] we'll certainly check the wall when we go out, you know, final check. But at

[29:30] this this present time, we haven't identified any need for tuck pointing.

[29:33] No. >> Great.

[29:35] » Thanks. >> What is the anticipated uh lifespan of

[29:41] this particular vinyl application? >> That's a good question. We were just

[29:45] talking about that yesterday with our installer and he was saying that he has

[29:49] um he started doing these out in Kent State I think and Alex can correct me. I

[29:53] believe he said 12 years ago. So he has some on Kent State that have been up for

[29:56] 12 years. Um the what what we tell people when they ask that question is

[30:01] about 10 years, right? Uh of course dependent on exposure of all things

[30:07] including sun and salt and wintertime and whatnot. um but very comparable to

[30:11] traditional paint on brick uh if not longer in some cases. So 8 to 10 years.

[30:18] » I'll also chime in that when we make the agreements with the building owners um

[30:23] the the legal agreement that we have with them to host the art, we write it

[30:27] up as a five-year contract with one-year mutual renewals after that. So after the

[30:32] five-year term when we we sort of all know this material looks good, we're

[30:36] checking in annually and saying, "Hey, does it still look good? are you, you

[30:39] know, are you comfortable with it staying? Um, so we've kind of kind of

[30:43] thought through that in the structure of these agreements.

[30:47] » Okay.

[30:52] » I have nothing further. I don't know, Dan. Do we have quum enough to make a

[30:56] motion or >> how?

[31:02] Yeah, we do not have quorum at this point. So, um I think you know if every

[31:06] if there's good consensus that uh nobody has any issues with it, we will uh just

[31:11] move it along to its next step at the Cleveland Networks Commission meeting

[31:15] next week. >> Okay.

[31:17] » Um do you guys does the applicant feel like you've gotten, you know, enough

[31:20] feedback? Are you guys happy or do you have questions for the committee?

[31:24] » No, I mean I appreciate you all being here today and having the opportunity to

[31:28] review it. Um we're certainly looking forward to what Landmarks has to say.

[31:32] So, no, I don't have any questions. I guess I can't speak for Alex, but no,

[31:35] I'm just appreciative of your your all's time.

[31:38] » Great. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. Have a good day.

[31:42] » Yep. >> Thanks. You too.

[31:44] » Thank you. >> Thank you.

[31:48] Now moving on to cases HOC 26-29 uh 30 and 31 at 3135

[31:59] 3201 3203 and 3221 Lraine Avenue uh the Westside Catholic Center buildings

[32:06] they're proposing some window replacements um believe we have Jim

[32:10] Warren and Andy Sakura here um to talk us through there. So, if you guys want

[32:16] to start your presentation, just let me know when you'd like me to advance the

[32:19] slides, please. >> Hi, I'm Andy Zakuro with Window

[32:23] Universe. So, we're the um contractor on doing the window replacement. Uh Jim um

[32:30] is kind of the leader over at Westside Catholic Center for their maintenance

[32:33] projects. um they obtained some grant money um to do these window replacements

[32:42] and that's kind of the trying to make that stretch as far as possible to do

[32:48] improvements to um both workspace and um shelter space that they provide uh is

[32:57] getting upgraded with um these renovations. So, I'll I'll be I'll lead

[33:01] the conversation because I can kind of speak to materials and exact install

[33:05] plans and uh Jim is on too, so he can always, you know, Jim feel free to

[33:09] interject um if there's anything that you want to share. Um but the first that

[33:15] we're looking at here um so it's three different properties that all are

[33:21] they're all a different scenario as to what is changing and kind of what's

[33:28] being proposed. So, all doing the same thing from a broad

[33:33] sense in that the windows at all three properties are not original.

[33:39] Um, I would estimate that they were installed somewhere in

[33:44] the 80s or 90s. Um, so it's kind of like a wood replacement, you know, um,

[33:51] cladded exterior window. Um, but they're all in pretty poor shape at this point.

[33:56] And definitely um you know replacing them could is going to make the

[34:03] you know the usable space a lot more usable. Um so first property that we're

[34:08] looking at 3135 Lraine. That's just kind of an overview of it. This is the view

[34:14] from Lraine directly across the street. Uh, this is all one building and when

[34:21] you're on the interior, like what we're looking at are the eight front upstairs

[34:27] windows. Um, when you're inside, those are actually all one continuous um,

[34:34] hallway with separate offices. And this is where um, you know, the people that

[34:39] work at Westside um, you know, their offices are here. So this is kind of

[34:44] like a pulled away view where you see all eight at once in the bottom left

[34:49] corner there. That's really just a kind of a little just to give you a

[34:53] perspective of what we're looking at the front and the side.

[34:57] So that's the only way to see kind of the front and the side at the same time.

[35:00] And if you scroll down um this is now uh you know seeing the side

[35:07] by itself. So there's it's a corner building that is on Lorraine and 32nd um

[35:14] eight windows that face the front and now we're looking at the 13 windows on

[35:19] the side of the building. Um primarily the upstairs the second floor.

[35:26] There are two on the first floor that are circled. Um one of them is kind of

[35:31] blocked by some artwork that was hung when we took that picture. Um, so if you

[35:36] look at the second picture in this same sheet, that's showing that second window

[35:41] that's on the first floor. And also there's a window that sort of goes

[35:46] around the adjacent corner that kind of faces south. Um, but that bottom picture

[35:52] shows where that one's tucked um kind of into the entryway. So altogether you

[35:57] have the eight windows on the front and then now the side um for an additional

[36:02] 13. All right. if you want to scroll down

[36:05] from there. Um, so now the front of the building is

[36:12] you have two different um, color schemes. The four windows on the left

[36:19] and four windows on the right now. This is one of an example of the four windows

[36:25] that are on the left. Um, there's sort of a couple different color elements. uh

[36:32] the trim boards around the window opening and directly underneath that's

[36:38] painted wood that's kind of like a maroon color. Um and the window itself

[36:43] it is kind of hard to see in the in the photo. Um

[36:48] the window has a very thin frame that's there that is actually a lot brighter

[36:54] red than the color that's below um that that is like a maroon color. So,

[37:02] the way that we would install the new windows, the trim boards would be left.

[37:07] Um, and that's what you're looking at painted or um that blue arrows. So, the

[37:11] trim boards on sides, top and sill on the bottom, leaving those exactly as

[37:17] they are where that color would stay the same. The new window would go into the

[37:22] opening. Um, and I guess this is probably good to go

[37:27] to the next slide or next page down. So now you're getting kind of a

[37:32] pulledaway view. So those four windows that are above kind of like that maroon

[37:37] painted um almost like a fascia board. Um those four proposing to change those

[37:44] from the the bright red frame to a bronze

[37:49] exterior. And when I look like when you're looking at the building as a

[37:52] whole from Lorraine, you have the storefront windows below are all bronze

[37:58] framed and the windows to the right. The other four that we would be are

[38:02] currently bronze. So the idea here is remove the bright red that isn't really

[38:09] um matching any of the other colors that are there and putting in uh bronze but

[38:17] leaving the trim boards the painted wood so that that looks all consistent.

[38:22] Um, so and I guess I should interject this

[38:26] too. The the main thing here that we need approval for is the to do vinyl

[38:33] windows. Um, a lot of and you'll see this with this property as well as the

[38:38] other, the vinyl window gives us the opportunity to match colors

[38:44] um to make things more consistent from like just the color of things. And at

[38:49] the same time, um, the lets the grant funds stretch a lot farther in terms of

[38:56] like how much how many of the windows in these locations can be replaced. Um, so

[39:02] I guess if you want to go down then to the next,

[39:07] uh, [clears throat] this is just showing that a closeup of that maroon red color

[39:14] that's on the facial board below the four windows. Um because we kind of have

[39:18] two options here. We could put in a bronze window and just do a small um

[39:24] it's basically like recreating a stop on the exterior that would match the bronze

[39:29] color. Or if you wanted to try, you know, we to

[39:34] pull that maroon um color into the window opening instead of the bright red

[39:39] that's there. we could use this colored trim coil, which was a real almost

[39:44] perfect match to what was the painted wood that's below it. So, kind of have

[39:48] two options there. Um, bronze window with bronze trim that just blends into

[39:54] the frame or bronze window with uh, [clears throat] you know, a small stop

[39:59] piece, basically a half inch by half inch piece that goes around that would

[40:02] kind of tie together um, the the maroon color that's below.

[40:09] And if we want to go to the next slide. So [clears throat] the this is a closeup

[40:16] of the four windows that are on the front, the Lorraine side. Um just

[40:22] showing same idea here. Leave those trim boards the big painted color that they

[40:28] are currently and then replacing the bronze colored window that's already

[40:32] there with a new bronze colored window. Main difference being that it's vinyl.

[40:37] But um there's a kind of like a little color sample down there at the bottom

[40:41] too showing um just the bronze color which is in the middle um as opposed to

[40:46] like darker black or you know lighter brown or terra. Um so the that bronze

[40:51] color would match this what's currently there.

[40:55] If you want to go to the next um so kind of to summarize and this is

[41:01] the same it's sort of the same scenario for all three buildings. um that the

[41:08] current windows are not the original. Um it'd be upgrading windows that are, you

[41:14] know, 30 to 40 years old and um you know, improve um the the areas, you

[41:23] know, whether it's a workspace or a shelter. Um, and the change to vinyl

[41:28] lets us be flexible on matching colors and at the same time, um, letting the

[41:34] grant funds spread further into, um, more improvements on the properties. Um,

[41:40] so that's kind of the summary on this building in particular. So, I I guess I

[41:46] would want to throw it out there. Um, it'd probably be easier to talk about

[41:49] them individually because the the whole color idea is is different on all three

[41:54] buildings. So, I don't know if anyone wants to has questions about that

[41:58] property before we move on to the next or you know any feedback.

[42:06] » I I'll go first. I think generally the the idea is good, but I I don't know

[42:13] that I can go along at least on the Lraine and public facing sides of

[42:19] replacement from aluminum clad wood windows even though they're not original

[42:23] uh to vinyl windows and is there a way of maintaining an aluminum clad wood

[42:29] window on the public facing? I know I think it's your second presentation has

[42:33] some windows on the back side. Maybe a compromise is to allow vinyl there. But

[42:38] on the street facing windows, maintain them as aluminum cl wood wood windows.

[42:47] Yeah. The you know that is a possibility. Um

[42:52] you know we we also sell woodclad um you know wood interior, aluminum clad

[42:59] exterior. Um cost becomes a huge factor in this. Um

[43:06] the cost of doing the vinyl window verse the aluminum clad window is almost three

[43:13] times as much. So, we're really kind of reducing how much, you know,

[43:21] can't how much can be done for these properties, you know, improving the

[43:25] » I totally get it and I'm very sympathetic and you guys do great work

[43:29] for the community and I don't want to discount that. Uh, our our task, our

[43:34] assignment sitting on this board is to apply the Secretary of Interior

[43:38] standards uh to the historic district. Um and while sympathetic and

[43:43] appreciative of the cause, we still have to maintain those standards. And so if

[43:48] there's a way of working or doing it in phases to maintain aluminum clad wood

[43:54] window or maybe even a lesser maybe a fiberglass window would be an option. Um

[43:59] but not vinyl on the public facing rightways.

[44:05] » And just against Oh, sorry. Go ahead. >> Oh, I was just I was going to say the

[44:09] same thing. I really appreciate um the color change and

[44:15] um you know all the attempts here to match the palette and go back to a more

[44:21] historic bronze frame. But I I was going to say the exact same thing that Alex is

[44:26] saying. And I also think for the longevity of the organization, it um

[44:33] obviously would be a larger investment now to do fiberglass or aluminum clad

[44:39] wood on the public facing side, but um the reality is that those are going to

[44:43] last longer than the vinyl. And so you do have the monetary savings over the

[44:51] life of the window.

[44:56] » Yeah. And um to get some clarity too, just to make sure um when you were

[45:03] saying the um like public facing I think was the word or so all of the windows on

[45:09] the scope because we're looking at the front and the side. Do you view those

[45:12] the same or would like the side have the opportunity to be viewed differently

[45:18] than the front? I think the side presentation you showed

[45:22] was facing I don't know if that was 32nd what whatever the side numbered street

[45:27] was that would also be the same aluminum clad wood window or perhaps fiberglass.

[45:33] » Okay. Um, so the

[45:38] fiberglass is another option outside of the aluminum clad and that is offered.

[45:48] Um, you know, something that we can get in a bronze color. Um, so that is

[45:54] something that we could explore. But, you know, I guess if the vinyl is

[45:58] getting um, you know, is not going to be approved,

[46:02] would the fiber an all fiberglass frame that's bronze exterior, is that

[46:08] something that would be acceptable for all those?

[46:13] » I'm going to defer to Margaret for that one.

[46:16] » Uh, yes, I I've that is typically an acceptable preservation

[46:21] material.

[46:24] » Okay. Um

[46:28] so yeah, I think that is kind of um like we probably could move on to the

[46:33] next uh building. Um similar situation but different um

[46:42] challenges with the colors. Uh so this one is

[46:48] um on the corner basically directly across the street

[46:51] from what we were just looking at. So this is Lorraine and 32nd but on the

[46:55] other side. So the first picture you're seeing is the front of the building.

[46:59] We're not doing anything on the front. That's really just a context photo. Uh

[47:03] the next one below that shows from the corner. So you can get a start to get a

[47:07] feel of what where the area that we are talking about. The windows that we're

[47:10] looking at are behind that tree. Um so now as we if you scroll down you'll see

[47:16] I kind of just zoomed up more. So now the only windows facing 32nd that we

[47:23] would be doing here are those three on the second floor. Uh two in one opening

[47:30] and then the other uh stand alone. The windows that are currently there are

[47:37] same idea um replacement window that's uh older '90s style wood clad. um they

[47:45] have a green exterior and SDL grids. So what we would be proposing is

[47:55] um using vinyl to maintain the color. And if you scroll down, I think the next

[47:59] one had um Okay. No, sorry. So also in the scope of work is the back of the

[48:05] building. these um five windows and they're the same except for the one in

[48:11] the middle that was replaced at some point with a vinyl window. Um but same

[48:17] idea like all um these five plus the other three all

[48:22] eight would would be getting a vinyl window that's custom painted

[48:28] with SDL grids um and the same pattern that's there. The middle window doesn't

[48:33] have a grid. it should because all the rest they're all the same. Um so we'd be

[48:37] bringing that window back to uh u matching. Um so if you want to scroll to

[48:42] the next.

[48:48] So here's a closeup of what we looked at looking at the those side windows that

[48:52] were on the upstairs. Same idea. Leave the trim boards as painted wood. um

[48:58] replace the window that's green that has the one the four light um one by one

[49:06] grid top and bottom. That would now be an SDL grid and um the green color

[49:14] that's here. We can get the vinyl window can get a custom paint match. And if you

[49:21] scroll down, I think I have kind of a zoom in right there. So, that is the

[49:27] color sample that we'd be sending to get the windows. Um, which is a pretty

[49:31] spot-on match with what's currently there. Um, and I get the same scenario

[49:38] of wanting um avoiding the vinyl windows on the 32nd side. Um the hiccup that we

[49:45] have with these is um getting a green colored match um with either the um

[49:54] the fiberglass or woodclad window. Um this color just doesn't exist in those

[50:01] products where we could accurately match the other windows that are on the

[50:05] building and other like elements that are painted this green color. So being

[50:11] able to use the vinyl window lets us get the cut, you know, the exact match

[50:16] on the green um that you see there. And if you want to scroll down, I don't know

[50:21] if I have any other photos. Yeah. So same same scenario here. Um this is the

[50:26] same message from the last one. Um, so yeah, if any feedback or questions on

[50:33] this building,

[50:37] » same same feedback as as before. If those windows that's on the screen are

[50:42] facing the backyard only and not visible from the public right away, uh maybe

[50:49] vinyl, but for the ones that are on 32nd there, same same comments.

[50:56] » Okay. And where we would have a challenge on replacing those would be

[51:01] getting that that same green color. So in order like if we explored doing like

[51:06] a fiberglass window um

[51:11] is like we would we would be able to get I don't know a different color and um

[51:17] that would be approved like for that side.

[51:21] Yeah, Andy, my recommendation was actually going to be maybe default to a

[51:25] color. Uh the green is is lovely and I appreciate like the effort to match it,

[51:31] but I I wonder if you guys could save cost by picking a color that you could

[51:35] apply to both fiberglass and vinyl and then just doing that consistently.

[51:42] So like for the 32nd side or I guess for all the windows doing like a bronze or

[51:47] something that comes in the driver comes in and just making them all that same

[51:51] color. I >> I think so. And I also wanted to add

[51:54] that I don't know if there's additional cost savings if you were to eliminate

[51:57] the SDLs on these windows. This view in particular like I doubt that those had

[52:03] divisions. They were likely just double hung windows if if they're original at

[52:06] all. Like if there was any semblance of an original window there. Um I don't

[52:10] know if Margaret would have an opinion on that, but I would say

[52:14] » I was gonna say same thing, Nia. >> Yeah, nyx the grids. Hopefully there's a

[52:17] little positive cost there and just yeah do a non-custom color that you can do in

[52:23] both and hopefully that will yield a little bit of a friendlier cost.

[52:29] » Okay. Um, so I guess if I look at that 32nd side,

[52:34] um, moving to bronze, you still we should

[52:39] still have the grid, but you're saying do a grid in between the glass

[52:43] » and if it's roof, >> no grid at all. Just let them be double

[52:47] home windows and yeah, definitely not between the glass in any scenario. I

[52:51] just don't see I I just don't think that that would have even had those. That was

[52:56] probably some creative input at a replacement, previous replacement that I

[53:01] don't think you need to spend on recreating.

[53:06] » Okay. So, and the windows below like the the I like at least for the time being,

[53:11] they would not, you know, they would not match with the the ones that we're

[53:14] replacing above, like that's not an issue at this point.

[53:19] Like if we were to do those, like that wouldn't raise a flag or anything.

[53:24] It doesn't for me in particular. Um if other committee members feel

[53:29] differently, they can say so. But I it does not

[53:33] bother me in the interest of achieving the goals of the project. And you know

[53:40] swapping vinyl for fiberglass on the front facing facades. Um if the tradeoff

[53:45] if this can yield you positive um cost impact to help trade offset that then

[53:50] that to me is worth worth it. even if they're a little mismatched.

[53:58] » Okay. Um so if any other questions or

[54:02] anything, we can move on to the next property if um if there's no other

[54:05] input.

[54:09] Okay. So last is a little further down the street on Lraine. Um this is

[54:17] two sides to the building that we'd be working on. Uh if you go to the next

[54:21] slide. [clears throat] So this is the front and sec again

[54:27] second story. There's a total of five. Uh currently they're um same idea

[54:34] windows around similar age woodclad white exterior with green aluminum

[54:41] capping that is covering the wood. So right now this what's different about

[54:45] this building that that those exist the existing trim boards are already capped

[54:50] in a green color. Um so that's the upstairs five windows. If you go to the

[54:54] next slide [clears throat]

[54:58] now this is the side of the building. It's not really it faces the parking

[55:02] lot. It doesn't face the street. Um and those windows are currently

[55:09] white exterior with white aluminum trim. Um,

[55:16] so that's just around the side of the building. If you go to the next slide,

[55:22] that's a this is just a closeup of one of those side windows. Um,

[55:28] white window, white capping. And if you want to go to the next.

[55:34] So now this is a closeup of the front of the building. White window with the

[55:38] green aluminum capping around it. And next slide.

[55:45] So this is showing a color sample like what we were proposing. And obviously I

[55:50] I kind of know the direction of what at le for the front windows, you know,

[55:55] getting the vinyl a vinyl window that's white and then doing the green capping

[55:59] around it. So just based on the other buildings, I'm sure this would fall into

[56:03] that same context of yes, do a white fiberglass.

[56:08] And then in this case though, I would not want to leave the trim boards as

[56:12] painted wood cuz they're already covered with the aluminum. And this would it'll

[56:17] the best thing to do is just reddo the aluminum capping cuz underneath that

[56:22] wood's going to be pretty badly deteriorated. And I think painting it

[56:26] just doesn't make sense. So, putting in um like what we were going to propose

[56:32] was white vinyl window with the this color green um aluminum trim around it

[56:39] and um you know if that needs I guess if we need to evaluate that as a white

[56:44] fiberglass with the green trim that would I feeling like that that kind of

[56:48] would be the direction. Um, and if [clears throat] we talk about those side

[56:52] windows, I think if you go to the next slide, I don't know if I had anything.

[56:55] Okay, so yeah, this then the side windows then, um, we were kind of

[57:00] viewing those as not being street facing that they go to the parking lot. Um, so

[57:06] definitely like the back, similar to the back um of the previous building we just

[57:12] looked at that getting a vinyl window approved for the for the these side ones

[57:17] that aren't street facing um and have them be white vinyl with white

[57:24] aluminum. >> I think because it's still I mean I

[57:29] assume that that photo is taken from West 33rd there as the note reflects. So

[57:34] that's still the public right away. I would apply my prior comments to this

[57:39] facade as well.

[57:46] » Okay. [clears throat] And so I guess then a move to fiberglass

[57:52] on side and front. Um but maintaining a white color and

[57:59] » doing the aluminum grain trim would be acceptable.

[58:03] I think that you can have flexibility with color here. So if I you know if

[58:10] there's a cost savings to order everything in the bronze.

[58:14] Um I actually we off often see that the buildings from this era originally had

[58:20] darker painted sashes. So it is um would be nice maybe even preferable to go with

[58:29] the darker color sash. And I'm okay with um maintaining the

[58:38] aluminum capping.

[58:42] » I don't know what others think. >> I am also okay with that. And I was also

[58:48] going to suggest either a bronzer or just a universal color that's not white.

[58:53] Um Andy, did you tell us which brands just like what brands would you guys

[58:59] install for vinyl or fiberglass? So, you guys have a suppliers that you work

[59:04] with? >> Yep. Yeah. So, what you're seeing right

[59:07] there, that's kind of the cover of the vinyl window. Um, it's made by Oakna.

[59:12] It's definitely, you know, in our opinion, like a vinyl

[59:16] window that is held in, um, in terms of quality, a lot higher than just your

[59:23] your typical vinyl window. Um, so this is the primary vinyl product that we

[59:28] use. A lot of customization that we can do with it. Um it's overall like when

[59:33] you look at from like technical data just performance. Um

[59:39] so that would be the vinyl window. The fiberglass windows that we sell are made

[59:43] by Marvin. Um and actually the this vinyl window has

[59:50] [clears throat and cough] a longer warranty and better energy efficiency

[59:54] than the fiberglass window. So, you know, it is I, you know, like in terms

[1:00:00] of longevity and just um, you know, long-term improvement to the building,

[1:00:05] like we definitely view the vinyl window as being something that probably has

[1:00:10] even potentially a longer lifespan than the fiberglass, just if I was to go by

[1:00:15] the warranty that's offered by the manufacturer on on the product.

[1:00:21] » Okay. Thank you for um clarifying. I am very familiar with Marvin and their

[1:00:27] fiberglass product, but not as familiar with the Oakna product. Um, I might be

[1:00:31] dissenting from my colleagues in that in this particular building, I would accept

[1:00:35] vinyl on the um parking lot facing side of the building.

[1:00:42] um just in again in the interest of this

[1:00:47] particular owner's uh commitment to service um and the fact that they're

[1:00:53] using grant money and wanting to you know ensure that they're able to utilize

[1:01:00] their funds efficiently. So that's just that's my one opinion. Um

[1:01:06] but otherwise yeah I think just in agreement with everything else that has

[1:01:09] been said Danction.

[1:01:15] » Yes please. asks. >> Um, if it's okay with my fellow

[1:01:19] committee members and with the applicant that we would table this so that they

[1:01:23] could uh redo their proposal in either aluminum clad or fiberglass windows and

[1:01:29] present those options at a future uh design review meeting uh for approval.

[1:01:39] I was Yeah, I was gonna say if that could be an option. Um

[1:01:44] or Dan, I'm not sure if it would be better if that could work or because we

[1:01:48] don't have quorum right now if they can make adjustments to the proposal and go

[1:01:51] straight to the committee. I would lean on your recommendation.

[1:01:55] » Um yeah, either options. uh they could, you know, move forward with the the

[1:02:00] feedback from you guys today, make some adjustments and and be on our commission

[1:02:04] meeting next week or um if they wanted to explore the fiberglass aluminum clad

[1:02:10] options. Essentially, we you know call it table postponed um and then they

[1:02:14] could present to you guys in uh two weeks um with the expectation that if

[1:02:20] you guys were fine with it, it wouldn't need to go to the full commission. Um,

[1:02:23] so either I think either is an easy path forward.

[1:02:28] » It's up to you, Andy. >> Yeah, I guess the, you know, and I

[1:02:35] obviously need to talk with Jim and Westside and go over, you know,

[1:02:40] financial of how this would impact things to like see what the scope of

[1:02:43] work can be. But um is there a way to not that we would exactly go this route,

[1:02:51] but if we were to make the changes from vinyl to fiberglass

[1:02:57] and use the color um you know, matching colors or like you

[1:03:04] said for the green one, changing that to a a bronze,

[1:03:08] would this still need to go to like would we need to do this the pres like

[1:03:13] like what we're doing right Should we or is this something that I I just don't

[1:03:16] know the process of like if we make those changes like what then where does

[1:03:19] it go from there? >> Um like if you kind of take into account

[1:03:25] all of the um the comments you received today and then change your presentation

[1:03:30] um since we don't have forum um it will it would need to go to the

[1:03:36] [clears throat] landmarks commission for for final approval. um you know or you

[1:03:41] could do like Alec suggested and and come back to this committee to try and

[1:03:45] get an approval in a couple weeks. Um so I guess it it I mean if you're

[1:03:50] interested in making those changes, it sounds like there's you know there's

[1:03:52] going to be some research involved with it. Um because that's something you

[1:03:57] think you'd be ready to uh to move forward with landmarks next week. um you

[1:04:02] know with we we'd need like a resubmission by the end of this week or

[1:04:08] if you need a little more time it make might make more sense to give yourself

[1:04:11] the extra week and just come back to this committee.

[1:04:14] » My my preference would be just to come back to this committee and and follow

[1:04:18] the normal process and get a vote of approval or not and then proceed.

[1:04:27] So Andy, I ask, are you agreeable to tableabling this so that you can go and

[1:04:31] do your homework and then come back? >> Yeah, I mean, yeah, definitely it

[1:04:36] requires a conversation with um you know, restructuring the scope of work

[1:04:40] based on the material change. Um, but I think, you know,

[1:04:47] just to summarize, just to make sure I'm having all my thoughts, um,

[1:04:52] you know, like to give a the best chance of approval, um, looking at the first

[1:04:56] property, given that all the windows face, Lorraine, and 32nd, they would all

[1:05:03] need to be a fiberglass product, but maintain bronze color on all of them,

[1:05:08] you know, with fiberglass sounded like that would be the direction that you'd

[1:05:12] be looking for um the second building using a vinyl product on the back five

[1:05:18] windows. Um pivoting to a bronze color that would

[1:05:23] match um the three that are facing 30 second but moving those to a fiberglass

[1:05:30] and having no grids on any of those uh eight.

[1:05:36] And then for the last building, um, front windows would require fiberglass.

[1:05:42] That would be like doing white would make the most sense finan like costwise.

[1:05:47] Um, so the front windows be fiberglass, but kind of still ask for, hey, can we

[1:05:53] do vinyl on the side knowing that it'll be decision of yes, vinyl is acceptable

[1:05:59] for the side um the like parking lot side or no, that'll have to be

[1:06:04] fiberglass too. That's kind of like Does that summary make sense where this would

[1:06:09] be something that' be easy to like understand and like kind of for you guys

[1:06:12] to make a decision about? >> Yes, I think that works.

[1:06:19] » Okay. So, yeah, I think if can you put us on the docket for the next meeting

[1:06:26] then that's in two weeks from today? >> Yeah. Yeah, we'll keep you penciled in

[1:06:30] and um if you can get us an updated presentation um just work with Jessica.

[1:06:35] She'll she'll send a follow-up to the meeting and and let you know when we'll

[1:06:39] need updates and all that.

[1:06:43] » Okay, got it. >> All right. Well, thank you very much.

[1:06:49] » Do we need to Oh, yeah. We can't make a motion to table.

[1:06:52] » Yeah. Yeah. There's no no action to be taken. So, we could call postponed or

[1:06:58] something else or I don't know. Um, but yeah, next up we have case

[1:07:04] HC26-19 at 1898 West 25th Street. Um,

[1:07:09] renovations. I believe we have Kevin Oligler and Doug Powski here

[1:07:15] presentation up. >> Yes, good morning. Um, and we saw this

[1:07:19] one um, schematically a few months ago and and I guess previously a few I don't

[1:07:25] know at some point in the in the past. So um, Evan, I'll let you through.

[1:07:31] » Yes. Yeah, I'll let you walk us through the uh, proposal.

[1:07:36] » Okay, great. Um, thank you again. Thank you everyone for your time. Um, as was

[1:07:41] just mentioned, this is the proposed work to the Gats building at 1898 West

[1:07:46] 25th Street. Um, it's a little narrow building kind of highlighted in red

[1:07:51] there um on West 25th. If you go to the next slide,

[1:07:57] um, again, just kind of looking um kind of the market is there on Lraine and we

[1:08:04] are a block or two northward of that. Next slide, please.

[1:08:11] Um existing photos top row kind of shows from left to right the corner um gets

[1:08:16] building is labeled there in the middle and then pins mechanical um is slightly

[1:08:21] lower to the right of it. Um and kind of the uh front facade condition and then

[1:08:28] the lower images show the rear of that block and um bottom right is the current

[1:08:34] condition of the rear facade. Next.

[1:08:40] Um, so the building does go the full depth of the um the block and it sits

[1:08:46] entirely on the uh footprint of the parcel

[1:08:50] with the existing parking lot remaining at the rear. Um, next.

[1:08:57] And um so the left here is um sort of existing conditions and the right is

[1:09:02] proposed. So essentially on the front, we're proposing to replace um the

[1:09:06] existing storefront and um boarded up areas with new uh storefront windows,

[1:09:12] framing, doors, um painted fiber cement trim and accents to um repair or replace

[1:09:20] um damaged pieces that currently exist. um as well as um the the previously

[1:09:28] removed um prism glass in the transom area, we're proposing to reinstall

[1:09:34] behind the new um storefront system that would be in the same location.

[1:09:41] Um, next.

[1:09:48] And then on the rear, um, taking the, uh, deteriorated and damaged window

[1:09:53] areas and infilling those with, uh, some some prefinished framing and metal

[1:10:00] panels. And then further back in the front threetory portion on the rear side

[1:10:05] of that, installing the same um dark gray uh prefinished metal panels on that

[1:10:11] exterior as well. Um just to keep those two consistent um materials at the back

[1:10:16] there. Um and replacing um the sills at those openings as well that are

[1:10:21] deteriorated on the rear. Next.

[1:10:30] Um so again, some of the um materials indicated we're going to be um puck

[1:10:35] pointing and repairing masonry on the rear that's needed and the infill will

[1:10:39] be with um the u pre-finished metal panel. That that image on the top shows

[1:10:45] the profile, not the color of it. Um and then again the um charcoal gray uh new

[1:10:52] storefront aluminum prefinished system and gray glass at the front facade.

[1:10:59] And I think that might be it. Oh, so sorry. Some floor plans for context. Um

[1:11:04] kind of also looking at this. The on the right is the front of the building on

[1:11:09] West 25th. And so the renovations are installing a new two-story stair there

[1:11:16] so that as you walk up that stair, you will be adjacent to the um installed

[1:11:21] prism glass um that is behind the new storefront, but it'll be um sort of

[1:11:28] visually accessible from inside the building and give you a chance to um see

[1:11:33] it where you wouldn't have um otherwise when there weren't stairs there.

[1:11:38] If you go to the next slide

[1:11:46] and this this is um roof plan. Next slide.

[1:11:54] And this is sort of a diagrammatic section through the front of the

[1:11:58] building as it faces West 25th. So, kind of showing the the area of the stairs

[1:12:03] that are cut in this section, but as they pass by that transom area. And so,

[1:12:08] we'll have the new storefront at the exterior of the building and then

[1:12:10] immediately behind it um install the prism glass um at that same location um

[1:12:17] just just within the envelope of the building um and accessible to sort of

[1:12:22] people to get a better view of it there.

[1:12:28] Um, I don't know if we have another page in here. Yep. And you know, just a kind

[1:12:32] of a exterior concept perspective of what that uh looks like from the street

[1:12:38] with the the stairs in the front and the um renovations and new storefront and

[1:12:44] trim on the front of the building.

[1:12:51] » That's the last one. >> Perfect.

[1:12:57] Um, I greatly appreciate the uh reinstallation of the prism glass. Have

[1:13:03] you do you have the original? >> Yes. Okay,

[1:13:14] that was really Oh, and then for tuck pointing, you know, we always would like

[1:13:18] to specify for the this older building, the historic border, um that the border

[1:13:25] match the aggregate and the color of the

[1:13:29] historic as closely as possible. And then also have a high lime content so

[1:13:35] that it's not overly hard.

[1:13:46] Thanks, Margaret. I had the same question about the prism glass because I

[1:13:49] know that that has been a challenge with previous I don't know years years old

[1:13:54] proposals um for this business owner. So, um this this looks this looks really

[1:14:01] good in my opinion.

[1:14:13] And we can't make a motion, right? We still don't have corum. So,

[1:14:17] » if I could make a motion, I'd make one to approve. [laughter]

[1:14:21] » I would agree. So, unless Alex and Whitney have any other dis like

[1:14:27] dissenting or additional comments. >> No,

[1:14:31] » go ahead, Whitney. >> Okay.

[1:14:34] I think that I missed the uh initial presentation. What is the justification

[1:14:39] for the um window removal on the rear?

[1:14:46] So they are they are deteriorated um you know enclosures back there and it is it

[1:14:53] is um sort of a patchwork of I don't know if you go back then patchwork of

[1:14:58] infills and pieces and parts and so um that's

[1:15:05] » yeah there in the bottom right.

[1:15:09] Yeah, in the the previous proposal when this came for schematic, I believe you

[1:15:13] were going to brick those in. Um I believe if I recall that at during that

[1:15:19] meeting, um I think it was just was that the one where it was just Chris

[1:15:24] » giving you guys feedback and he he had recommended instead of trying to match

[1:15:28] the brick and you can see there's a a variety of different colors of brick

[1:15:32] there. Um, so that instead of trying to pick one or trying to have a medium, it

[1:15:37] would be easier just to utilize a similar metal panel than that is being

[1:15:41] utilized higher up on the building to kind of give it a finished look um but

[1:15:46] not try to match anything that's already there and um end up offsetting other

[1:15:53] things.

[1:15:56] it >> I also think that's more easily

[1:15:59] removable if someone were to ever reinstate

[1:16:02] window >> is it is natural light um just not

[1:16:08] desired for the use of the interior of the building

[1:16:12] » that portion is where a new um exit stair is being installed so that's at

[1:16:20] that rear end of the building that that back 10 ft is the egress stair currently

[1:16:26] the building, it only had sort of one stair in the middle. And so to use it as

[1:16:30] deep as it is, we really need two ways of that second floor. And that's what

[1:16:34] the rear stair is providing for us.

[1:16:45] Okay. I I think I share Margaret's opinion. I think the metal panels are

[1:16:51] preferable far prefer more preferable than brick so

[1:16:55] that it could be easily removed and windows installed should a future or

[1:16:59] different use be needed. So it keeps the historic opening. So I'm

[1:17:04] fine with that.

[1:17:13] If there's nothing else, I know that we can't make a motion, but um I guess Dan

[1:17:17] for your notes to communicate to landmarks that um I would make a motion

[1:17:22] to approve approve as presented then and I think we would have a majority there.

[1:17:29] Tell me if I'm wrong. >> I see some some nodding heads.

[1:17:36] » Um and thumbs up. All right. Well, we we'll we'll I'll I'll pass that on to

[1:17:40] the commission. Thank you. Um Kevin, thank you. Uh Doug,

[1:17:45] thanks. >> Thanks everyone.

[1:17:49] » And we'll we'll be we'll be in touch for next steps. Thanks.

[1:17:52] » Okay.

[1:17:56] » All right. Uh next up we have case uh HOC 26-33

[1:18:05] at 4227 Lorraine Avenue. Dar Tires. Um, got blank signs here.

[1:18:13] Um, Nick, uh, do you want to walk us through your presentation?

[1:18:19] » Uh, sure. Uh, [clears throat] we got a simple sign for you. It's a ACM

[1:18:25] panel. Uh, as you can see, this is the overview of the building. And where it

[1:18:29] says S1, that's the entrance into the business.

[1:18:34] Can you go to the next slide, please?

[1:18:39] Uh, this is going to be the ACM panel. Uh, it's going to be um, sorry I can't

[1:18:45] read this. Let me switch to my screen real quick.

[1:18:57] So, it's a digitally printed laminated uh, 3mm uh, ACM panel uh, mechanically

[1:19:03] fastened to the wall. It's going to be red fonts uh with the white background.

[1:19:10] Uh next uh slide please. I think that'll be the end of it.

[1:19:15] » That is Yeah, that's the only one we have.

[1:19:17] » Yep.

[1:19:28] Does anyone have any feedback?

[1:19:46] I mean, it's such a simple sign. I guess I don't have any uh feedback though

[1:19:50] outside the scope of this presentation. It would be nice if the tires were not

[1:19:55] stored um right there on the street. >> On the street. Yeah.

[1:20:01] I mean, my feedback is always the same with the signs that they be mounted

[1:20:06] through a mortar joint rather than through the masonry.

[1:20:19] All right. Any any other feedback recommendations to be passed on to the

[1:20:24] uh commission? >> Not for me either. Straightforward.

[1:20:30] Looks good. All right. Well, that was easy. Um,

[1:20:36] all right. Now, uh, we will be in touch with next steps, but I believe we have

[1:20:40] it penciled in for, um, next week's commission meeting since we, um, don't

[1:20:44] have quorum here today. >> Oh, okay. So, we can't approve it today.

[1:20:49] » Um, not without quorum. Um, >> okay. But

[1:20:53] » yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, we'll we'll we'll be in touch. Um, okay. Today or

[1:20:59] tomorrow. Uh, do you know what day it is next

[1:21:02] week? >> Um, it would be Thursday. Uh, those

[1:21:05] meetings start at 9:15. Um, they're they're virtual or in person, whichever

[1:21:10] is easier for you. >> Perfect. Okay. Thank you so much.

[1:21:14] » All right. Thank you. >> All right. See you guys.

[1:21:20] » All right. Next up, we have uh some renovations proposed

[1:21:26] uh at 5505 uh-9 Lraine Avenue, case HOC26-34.

[1:21:34] Um I think we got Mike McCre here. Uh >> yes. Hello. Good afternoon.

[1:21:42] » Great. Hey, you want to walk us through your presentation?

[1:21:45] » Sure. Uh we're proposing a extensive renovation to this obviously neglected

[1:21:52] building. As you can see on this first slide, it's in really poor shape. Um

[1:21:58] it's going to house retail and then co-op offices on the second floor.

[1:22:05] Uh just real you could see on this photo at the top left that the and I saw this

[1:22:12] the second floor has not been demoed but you could see in one area the old header

[1:22:18] the original header of the window. So, the windows you see in that top left

[1:22:23] photo, there's a fiberglass panel above those double hungs, which one of the

[1:22:29] things we will be doing to all the windows on the second floor is restoring

[1:22:32] them to their original rough opening. Um, next slide.

[1:22:45] Next slide.

[1:22:49] Oh, did we? Well, the other one just showed adjacent structures. So, you can

[1:22:54] see kind of Unfortunately, this is somewhat of a neglected area as of now.

[1:23:00] It's a short span where some buildings have not really seen much care over the

[1:23:05] years, but we're looking to bring this one back to life in this corridor. Uh,

[1:23:10] next slide. Just this is just showing what we proposed to demo. We'll be

[1:23:16] demoing the existing storefront, keeping the bulkhead, just removing the

[1:23:23] cladding, repairing any sheeting that needs and replacing

[1:23:28] that trim with Azac sheeting and trim board. And we'll be putting in a

[1:23:33] aluminum black storefront. Uh, next slide.

[1:23:44] This again just shows the proposed floor plan. Uh, next slide please.

[1:23:51] This shows what we're proposing will be restoring the existing roof cornice,

[1:23:58] replacing any brackets that are damaged with similar and any of the trim work

[1:24:06] we'll be replacing as well. Uh again, as I stated earlier, we'll be

[1:24:11] restoring the windows to their original heights on the second floor.

[1:24:16] The storefront cornice is missing in place, is badly damaged. We'll be

[1:24:22] replacing that with uh AAC cornice,

[1:24:28] trim board, and crown to match the existing.

[1:24:33] Uh any damaged brick will be replaced. We'll be cleaning it, ridding it of the

[1:24:39] graffiti, and tuck pointing as needed. As I stated before, we'll be removing

[1:24:45] the existing cladding at the bulkhead of the storefront, replacing with AAC

[1:24:52] and painted Tricorn black. All the trim and cornises and the bays will also be

[1:24:59] in that tricorn black. Um

[1:25:04] we'll be cleaning all the stone sills and lentils that will remain. Same with

[1:25:09] the peers, the capitals and the plits. All will remain as well. Uh we'll be

[1:25:15] installing new exterior lighting up and down. They'll be uh able to do up and

[1:25:21] down lighting. Um and then on the east side, you can

[1:25:27] see the corner will there's no storefront there now. that's just

[1:25:31] boarded up. We'll be placing a storefront in the corner. And then

[1:25:35] there's another masonry opening on this east side that

[1:25:40] we will be installing a new storefront as well with bulkhead to match the rest.

[1:25:46] The back building currently has two overhead doors. We'll replace one

[1:25:51] overhead door with a full view aluminum door and the other one with a

[1:25:57] storefront. And then we'll be removing these old missing glass block transoms

[1:26:03] on that back section as well and filling with block. And we'll be removing one of

[1:26:09] the man doors and then filling that with block as well. Then painting that

[1:26:14] existing block with uh the tri tricorn black. the roof over that entry to that

[1:26:22] back space will be replacing the siding with uh Hardy

[1:26:29] uh plank siding. Uh let me next slide.

[1:26:39] We will also the tongue and groove softening at the storefronts um we'll be

[1:26:45] replacing with Azac beadboard tongue and groove that will or sheeting

[1:26:51] our sheets I'm sorry that will be also painted tricorn black

[1:26:56] and then next slide

[1:27:01] this is just uh I apologize the one on the east view that block does not look

[1:27:10] tricorn black, but it will be. But this kind of gives you an idea of what the

[1:27:15] restored building will look like. We will also I forgot to say fit the roof

[1:27:20] is in horrible shape. So, a new roof on both the back structure and the twotory

[1:27:26] structure will be done. And then if you go to the next slide,

[1:27:33] that just shows you the storefront storefront color glazing

[1:27:38] that we propose. It'll be black. Next slide.

[1:27:46] This shows the overhead door that we're proposing for the back unit. And then we

[1:27:52] are proposing Anderson 100. It's a fiberglass window.

[1:27:56] It'll be the exterior will be black, interior will be black and or single

[1:28:01] hung, I'm sorry. And then it'll be a two up, two down divide with uh SDL grids.

[1:28:11] Next slide.

[1:28:15] And then that just shows the trim and that we'll be using and the beadboard

[1:28:21] sheeting. And then the proposed light fixture,

[1:28:26] that one is not shown in black, but that will be black. And all trim will be

[1:28:30] painted the tricorn black.

[1:28:34] And I'll uh shut up and open it to uh comments.

[1:28:44] » Thanks, Mike. >> Yes.

[1:28:46] » Um I think overall as a whole this is very

[1:28:50] agreeable. Thank you for a clear um presentation and drawing set. I have a

[1:28:58] question about or I more like what what are our thoughts on the divisions of the

[1:29:02] storefront? I think the existing building has some more vertical

[1:29:07] divisions than the proposed though.

[1:29:12] It's I I would I don't know. It's hard to say if that could be original or if

[1:29:15] that was a replacement at some other point. I'm curious, like Margaret in

[1:29:18] particular, what your thoughts might be on the historic accuracy of the

[1:29:21] divisions in the storefront and if we need more or if it looks good as is.

[1:29:29] » Um, so you're asking me this question, correct?

[1:29:33] » Yeah, I'm just asking more like for the for the group too, like do because you

[1:29:38] can see in existing photos and I'm I'm vaguely familiar with the building. I've

[1:29:42] been in it a couple times, but >> that there's more vertical divisions.

[1:29:45] Dan, can you go to sl one? >> Yeah, sorry. That would be upper left

[1:29:49] corner. >> That's what I'm looking at on my screen.

[1:29:51] And I really didn't realize we weren't all looking at the same thing. Yeah. So,

[1:29:56] we see more vertical divisions in those um storefronts currently.

[1:30:02] » And if we know if we have historic evidence of what was there, I would

[1:30:07] prefer to match that. Though, also without seeing it kind of literally in

[1:30:11] my face, it's hard to say if that's original or not. So, I'm depending on

[1:30:14] your uh you know, testimony of oh, this is an

[1:30:18] original anyways or what you you know, >> I I did do some digging and I was unable

[1:30:24] to find much information on this building. I think the last time it was

[1:30:28] occupied was maybe 14. Um the storefronts, it's a

[1:30:35] mismatch of new aluminum and then the old wood. Um,

[1:30:41] I I'm not objecting. I wouldn't be I'd be fine with more vertical divides. Uh,

[1:30:47] it was more or less as I looked through it, they're not none of them are equal.

[1:30:52] So, when I did do a test to see how it would look with more vertical

[1:30:58] some, you know, it wasn't proportional, but I don't think it has to be either.

[1:31:02] So truly I think I would agree that I could see more verticals

[1:31:10] maybe just in the bottom half and not the trance. I don't know.

[1:31:14] » Yeah, it looks like it looks like what's currently there are there's more in the

[1:31:19] bottom but not in the top like almost like each one is divided in two on the

[1:31:23] bottom. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely doable.

[1:31:27] Yeah, I think that would be agreeable just because we see it and we

[1:31:31] know it's there. Margaret, what do you think?

[1:31:33] » I agree because I think it lines up with the

[1:31:37] the vertical lines that are coming down from the windows in the bay above.

[1:31:46] » It could be that that would be that that would be something I'd have to

[1:31:51] take a closer look at. I I don't It's hard to tell from the picture, but it

[1:31:56] just looks like, you know, that there's a verticality in the lines that would

[1:32:00] carry down with the additional divide, >> but also like I think it's a more I

[1:32:07] think it's a consideration like I don't think it's going to kill the project,

[1:32:12] » right? And I'm guessing, Margaret, we just would not also have had those huge

[1:32:14] sheets of glass at the building is probably why. Correct.

[1:32:18] » Yeah. So, I I'm I'm the same. I think it's a consideration. It's more just

[1:32:23] like a dis a thought. Um

[1:32:28] » I think uh it seems like you're and I'm sorry. Are you the building owner or the

[1:32:32] architect? >> Architect.

[1:32:34] » Okay. So obviously the um it seems like you're taking a very classic approach to

[1:32:39] you know restore replace kind. Um. >> Mhm.

[1:32:43] » And is there any specification on I you mentioned boral like you know I

[1:32:49] would say acceptable acceptable replacements to wood if they aren't

[1:32:55] salvageable to to be like a non you know boral type product

[1:33:01] » or asac or >> Yeah. Yeah. Just making sure that we're

[1:33:04] not getting like the vinyl wrap. You know, sometimes we build these bigger

[1:33:08] facads and then they end up with a vinyl wrap and you're like, come on. But, you

[1:33:12] know, just it seems like you have a lot of notes, but maybe just being specific

[1:33:16] in your specs about acceptable products um in alignment with the secretary of

[1:33:20] interior standards and then >> and I think similar for mortar joint if

[1:33:24] you have not specified the type of mortar joint.

[1:33:27] » Okay. >> Protect pointing would be helpful so

[1:33:30] that we don't end up with a hard you know too hard of a mortar.

[1:33:34] » No, I understood. Okay.

[1:33:37] Is is there a uh tenants already signed for this building or is this for

[1:33:43] future tenant? >> Future tenants. So the the storefronts

[1:33:47] and the back building will be white boxed and then the offices will be built

[1:33:51] out upstairs. >> Okay. So there's no chance that those

[1:33:53] would ever become an apartment or anything like that. It's just going to

[1:33:56] be office. >> It Yeah. Because when they purchased the

[1:34:00] building, a lot of the infrastructure for what when the building was

[1:34:03] conceived, it was apartments, but it appeared that it had actually been

[1:34:07] changed to some sort of office. >> Okay. I only said it because it would be

[1:34:14] a consideration perhaps to use double hung rather than single if you needed

[1:34:17] egress. >> Yes, that's the building owner. Yeah. If

[1:34:21] that if that's their if it's office, that should be fine. So that was the

[1:34:25] only reason I was thinking that. Understood.

[1:34:28] » Okay. Looks good for me. Um, otherwise

[1:34:34] » I also really appreciate this presentation. I think it's very well

[1:34:37] done. My only other note about the masonry is have you specified any of the

[1:34:43] cleaning and graffiti removal products? >> Not yet. We are going to go through that

[1:34:49] and with with the builder. Um because you know you want some maybe proco

[1:34:55] product that is approved for older or historic buildings. That's a gentler

[1:35:02] approach. >> Okay.

[1:35:10] » Um I I totally agree with Nia um and Margaret about adding additional

[1:35:15] vertical divides in the first floor to mirror the historic photo that's on the

[1:35:20] screen there. I think between the uh brick peers or pilasters there's an

[1:35:24] extra set than what's shown on the rendering on page seven. So with that

[1:35:29] recommendation and then are you rebuilding

[1:35:33] uh exactly the cornice that is there? So it's going to be the exact same

[1:35:38] proportion same >> it'll be proportions. It may not it may

[1:35:41] not uh have the same reveal as that existing cornice that sticks out pretty

[1:35:46] far and it it could it it could

[1:35:52] lead to damaging of the new storefront. You

[1:35:56] know, it's just it's a place for water, ice, snow to sit. It sticks out

[1:36:01] significantly. It'll just it won't have that projection

[1:36:06] the top piece. >> Okay. I think with proper

[1:36:11] pitch and flashing, you should be able to avoid the rain and the,

[1:36:18] you know, icicles forming or whatever off that. And and the proportion of that

[1:36:22] cornice is we should try to maintain that. Often when buildings are uh

[1:36:30] redeveloped and and by the way, this is a fantastic proposal and presentation. I

[1:36:34] really enjoyed it. uh but we lose the proportion and it's very apparent that

[1:36:39] this building was redone because the proportions are not kept and so I would

[1:36:45] strongly suggest that you maintain the the same proportions of that cornice and

[1:36:50] that they not become smaller more dimminionative because it will stand out

[1:36:54] it will not look right and there are very simple ways to avoid the problem

[1:36:58] you identified of you know icicles or whatever coming off of it Okay.

[1:37:06] » And and I I I mean that I think that's such an important characteristic of the

[1:37:10] building that I know we don't have a quorum, but my vote would be contingent

[1:37:14] on matching that proportionality, but otherwise this is a fantastic

[1:37:19] presentation. >> Thank you. Um yeah, I mean we could

[1:37:22] definitely achieve it. Uh that was the only thing I was thinking about the you

[1:37:27] know putting the money into it and would it but I agree. I I think we can achieve

[1:37:34] it and should be able to do it. I mean the depth of the oris is the same. It

[1:37:39] was just the projection was different. >> Yeah. I mean when you go to a place like

[1:37:44] Rocker Park, it's readily apparent that it has been Disneyi because the

[1:37:48] proportions are are wrong and we just don't want to have that happen here. We

[1:37:52] want to maintain maintain that scale. >> Okay.

[1:37:56] » Thank you.

[1:38:00] » Yeah. I'm um in agreement. It's a really really great presentation and I'm

[1:38:05] excited to see this building come back to life. Um this is extremely minor and

[1:38:11] um it would not be a sticking point if we

[1:38:14] were able to um take this to a vote, but tricorn black can be such a a stark

[1:38:22] color and I'd love to see a softer black. You can just especially with the

[1:38:26] contrast of the brick and there's so much variation in brick and warmth and

[1:38:30] um you know my favorite is typically green black. You can just see the

[1:38:34] material underneath it a bit more. Um and so I love I love blacks. I love the

[1:38:39] dark colors that are popping up around the neighborhood. But I just think

[1:38:43] tricorn on this structure might just feel a little bit too stark.

[1:38:49] But >> just a really minor thought.

[1:38:52] » Yeah, we can look at that.

[1:39:07] All right. Um, not hearing any other comments. Um, right, Mike. We'll we'll

[1:39:12] be in touch with next steps, but uh we'll probably have you go to the

[1:39:17] commission and I think you'll work favorably upon a proposal because it's

[1:39:23] uh I'm excited to see this building getting fixed up. I've driven by it I

[1:39:27] don't know how many times and such a beautiful one. So,

[1:39:30] » yes, it it is. >> Yeah. Thank you for your hard work on

[1:39:33] this. >> Thank you.

[1:39:38] » All right. Next up, we have cage HOC26-35

[1:39:44] at 416 Bridge Avenue. Um, Jerry, uh, Jerry Coleman and Rebecca Weisenthal

[1:39:51] here, uh, for an addition. So, if you guys want to walk us through your

[1:39:56] presentation, just let me know when you want me to advance the slides.

[1:39:58] » Yeah, perfect. Um, just to kick it off, my name is Jerry Coleman. I'm the

[1:40:01] homeowner. Um, I purchased this house in 2016, 2017ish.

[1:40:08] It was condemned at the time. Um [snorts]

[1:40:11] passed around by a lot of builders. Big nuisance property in the area. Um fixed

[1:40:16] it up and built a huge addition, a nice new garage at considerable expense. Um I

[1:40:21] live in it now and um my situation changed where I've got remarried and

[1:40:26] I've got a pile of kids over here in Ohio City and uh two of the boys are

[1:40:30] sharing a room that's also my office. So, um, that's kind of where we got here

[1:40:36] or how we got here. And, uh, Rebecca will kind of walk you guys through, um,

[1:40:40] our proposal.

[1:40:49] » Rebecca, you're muted. If you're

[1:40:57] bottom left,

[1:41:03] » all of these programs are all a little different, but um sometimes if you just

[1:41:08] » Can you hear me? >> Thank Sorry about that. Uh so Jerry told

[1:41:14] you why this is important to him. And if you take a look at sheet A3, so just uh

[1:41:24] two slides, you're on A1 right now. Great. And this though, this is showing

[1:41:29] the second floor, the existing second floor as well as the proposed third

[1:41:35] floor. So if we if we zoom in a little bit, you'll see that um Jerry's office

[1:41:41] right now is also a bedroom for two boys, which is not working great. Uh

[1:41:47] what we're proposing is putting a stair from the office up to the this new third

[1:41:54] floor. We're proposing the third floor be built

[1:41:58] in the middle of the house behind the oldest part of the house. And this is

[1:42:03] actually the area of the house that was an addition

[1:42:07] u back in 2017 I believe. >> Yeah.

[1:42:10] » So we're we're not putting this in the the very front over the old part of the

[1:42:14] house. So, you can see that little third floor. We're proposing with two bedrooms

[1:42:19] for the boys, a small bathroom, and a small utility closet for a uh relocated

[1:42:26] furnace. And then I'd like you to look at A4, the

[1:42:32] next slide, which is this is showing the back of the house first. And we have our

[1:42:36] two heights, one to mid rafter span and also to the the new ridge. Um, and you

[1:42:44] can see that we're also not building out over the very back of the house. So,

[1:42:48] this mass is just in the center of the house. And then if we go one more slide

[1:42:53] to A5, you're going to see the front, the

[1:42:59] proposed front of the house. Uh, we're trying to make it look like other houses

[1:43:05] in the neighborhood where there was maybe something built in front and you

[1:43:08] can see the old house behind. We have two small windows in the front to give

[1:43:13] it that that look. And then I think what will help if we

[1:43:19] keep going through the slides to we have some nice photographs.

[1:43:29] So on these sheets, if we look at the photographs of the front of the house,

[1:43:35] we can see if you could Can you make that any bigger on can you zoom in on

[1:43:40] those photographs? Great. Thank you. So to the west of

[1:43:48] Mr. Coleman's house. We have an old house that has a store built in front of

[1:43:52] it. And now we have 4016 bridge in the middle there. So, we're proposing this

[1:43:59] new third floor built back from the front. And it's it's quite a few feet

[1:44:05] back. In fact, it is we're proposing almost 27 feet back from the front of

[1:44:11] the house. So, it's it's not going to be highly visible from Bridge Avenue.

[1:44:17] We're trying to to give it a look of an older house behind similar to what's

[1:44:22] happening at the house with the store in front of it.

[1:44:28] And then if you go down just a little farther in the packet, you're going to

[1:44:31] see existing photos of 4016 bridge. And then as you keep going, you're going to

[1:44:38] see the houses that surround it on neighboring streets.

[1:44:45] So here these we have the front of 4016 bridge and to the right we have um a two

[1:44:53] houses that were joined. I just wanted to show you the mass of what's adjacent

[1:44:59] to Jerry's house to to give a feel that this small addition we're proposing I

[1:45:06] don't think it would even be visible from a view like this. It's too far back

[1:45:10] off the street. And you can see that we still we have some adjacent

[1:45:15] fairly uh massive structures next to him. We also have pictures across the

[1:45:22] street of what's directly in front of his house. So we have a masonry brick

[1:45:28] building. You can see how it's right next to a smaller house and then also a

[1:45:34] three-story house which is adjacent to that.

[1:45:45] So, that is the the gist of what we're attempting to

[1:45:50] do.

[1:45:54] And we're also, of course, matching all of the materials that are on the

[1:45:58] existing house. Wood trim, exactly the same profile, same woodclad windows,

[1:46:06] same cladding color, same cement board siding. all trimmed to match.

[1:46:15] And Jerry, can you think of anything else you'd like to add to um Yeah, I

[1:46:20] just want to say I think it's important to note that uh in 17 we did the

[1:46:24] project. Uh it was Doug from Vizio Architects. We did go through Landmarks

[1:46:29] Commission. So everything we're saying we're going to match was approved um in

[1:46:34] 17. Uh, so, so you know, it's it's not like we're we're just matching something

[1:46:40] that was put on there in 1980. >> That little sketch you have currently up

[1:46:47] is is showing what this addition will look

[1:46:51] like from the front of the house.

[1:46:59] And I think that's that's it for our presentation.

[1:47:08] Thank you both. I can kick off commentary. First want to say I really

[1:47:13] appreciate um the evolution of this house. I've watched it evolve under your

[1:47:17] ownership and it has um been really great to see the care you've put into

[1:47:21] the property. Um also can appreciate your position as someone who perhaps has

[1:47:25] too many children. So I would love to see how we can get get something

[1:47:31] approved for you guys. Um, I think

[1:47:36] and I also can very much appreciate like the very dynamic uh con, you know,

[1:47:43] epicenter of massing that you guys are at at this uh point in on Bridge Avenue

[1:47:47] because you definitely have a lot going on and I think it's a point well taken

[1:47:51] for all of those reasons. Um, I think I'm just struggling a little bit with

[1:47:56] the with the elevation views. I know we never see

[1:48:01] them like that in real life obviously. Um, but it does feel perhaps a bit

[1:48:06] overdominating to the existing home. So, I'm trying to think and you've obviously

[1:48:12] put a lot of care and attention to this, you know, so far. Was it considered to

[1:48:18] like perhaps turn the gable um and or not match the pitch? And I'm

[1:48:25] normally someone who really wants the pitch of the roof to relate to other

[1:48:28] points of the house the way you have it drawn, but I'm curious if we just might

[1:48:34] be better off with the softer pitch on the addition just to bring down that

[1:48:38] that center point. Um, >> I'm going to jump in really quickly

[1:48:42] here. Yes, please. One thing we're hoping to do to save materials is to

[1:48:47] actually reuse the trusses that were installed on the roof in 2017 on this

[1:48:54] new addition. And the of course the architect uh Lean Sampid is going to

[1:48:58] have to examine them along with the contractor, make sure that that's

[1:49:02] feasible once we get to that point. But we were actually trying to lift them up

[1:49:07] and reinstall them on this new third floor. So that would be that's the pitch

[1:49:12] would would then match the existing. So that was one consideration.

[1:49:19] » Yeah, that's very interesting. Thank you for the information. Like that makes a

[1:49:24] lot of sense. I from a build building standpoint

[1:49:29] in in material reuse standpoint. I just do I don't know. I mean I again I'm I'm

[1:49:34] open to discussion on it. I just think >> is it worth that when we could cut that

[1:49:40] slope in half cuz you're as I'm looking at your section you aren't it's not

[1:49:44] occupiable it's not conditioned space it doesn't seem like there's any other

[1:49:49] reason >> to have it sure if you go to uh A4

[1:49:54] you'll see that section >> and I'm looking at that one there

[1:50:00] » yeah I'm and I'm also one that's like no we have great building material I love

[1:50:03] the thought I just feel it does feel a little overwhelming

[1:50:07] at the moment. Even though it's push back, I know all these things logically.

[1:50:10] I know how to the eye it's going to look. But

[1:50:13] » in the spirit of the criteria of of being um

[1:50:18] » what's the right word? Not submissive. What do we say? Someone help me out

[1:50:21] here.

[1:50:25] » Predominate over the historic structure. >> Yes. And it does feel a bit too tall. I

[1:50:31] also think you might, unless there's been a change in zoning, you probably

[1:50:34] will run into a height issue. You might at that peak at the third from a zoning

[1:50:38] standpoint. Um >> I don't know. I I would love to hear if

[1:50:42] you >> I don't think we do. And I I I may, you

[1:50:46] know, I could have reinter I could have interpreted something incorrectly. I

[1:50:49] don't think we do have a height problem, especially since we're set back as far

[1:50:54] as we are, but we'll we'll research that and make sure.

[1:50:59] Yeah, double check on that one because and note that you have a dimension to

[1:51:02] the midpoint of the roof, but Cleveland takes it to the to the highest point,

[1:51:06] not the midpoint. I know different jurisdictions do that differently, but

[1:51:09] » we did it both ways to make sure that >> we we do have it both ways.

[1:51:19] » I would love to hear other committee members opinions on on it. Again, I

[1:51:23] really want the property to grow with your family. Um, and I'm not opposed at

[1:51:28] all in to any of the materiality you're

[1:51:31] proposing. Again, I think you've done great work with the property. It's more

[1:51:34] just like how can we get this massing a little bit more agreeable to work is is

[1:51:39] how I feel. >> I I agree with you. If you look at A5 on

[1:51:45] page on page five of the presentation, um the the addition

[1:51:52] it is a bit more doineering over the historic structure. Is if there's a way

[1:51:57] Nia suggested turning the gable. Um I understand you're trying to reuse

[1:52:01] material. Is there a way to lower it the floor plate by one or two feet, bring it

[1:52:06] down a little bit and then maybe add a window right underneath the peak to

[1:52:10] soften that? Um, you're 90% of the way there. It just

[1:52:15] needs to be softened a bit. >> One one option it unfortunately we

[1:52:22] wouldn't be able to reuse trusses, but if we lowered the plate height and

[1:52:26] raised the ceiling joist and did a stick built um roof instead, we could do that.

[1:52:32] It would um unfortunately we we would have to be buying more, you know, new

[1:52:37] materials and not reusing

[1:52:41] But we we could and then have like a a slightly um we have a a slightly shorter

[1:52:46] wall, slight slope up to an 8 foot or 8 foot6 ceiling and do a

[1:52:55] stickuilt rafter and ceiling joist roof.

[1:53:02] » Yeah, four plate two feet would be a good improvement. Uh but I'll I'll let

[1:53:07] others chime in as well. I was then going to think the same thing

[1:53:11] if we could get that top plate down and just maybe a clipped it. It might

[1:53:15] already be clipped at the corner, but that could help. Um,

[1:53:21] I really do think just just perhaps perhaps going with a softer slope would

[1:53:27] really go a long long way. And even if you wanted to maintain the the ceiling

[1:53:32] heights and or not interfere with the head heights of those windows by

[1:53:37] lowering that plate too much. Just thinking of all the the factors

[1:53:42] that I know you guys are considering when you're building this massing out.

[1:53:50] » Well, we can we can certainly look at those those things.

[1:53:54] Um, and so there there it sounds like is

[1:53:58] there any way there's no way you would accept this

[1:54:03] uh even in in in its current form even if we let's say add a dormer or do

[1:54:08] something uh change the windows in the front? Is

[1:54:12] there any or add a maybe a central decorative window at the front? Is there

[1:54:17] any way we could salvage our mass, our current mass,

[1:54:23] given how far back it is from the house? So, if you look at A3 once more, you're

[1:54:30] going to see that the dimension back from the front of the

[1:54:35] house, I think it's u let me I have to zoom in. I'm looking at my screen here.

[1:54:41] It's um

[1:54:47] 26 foot over 26 feet back from the front. So I think when you're when

[1:54:53] you're on Bridge Avenue, you really don't see that mass.

[1:54:59] Uh and then if you you know, we have to remember that on Bridge, we've got those

[1:55:03] fairly tall structures to his right that are dwarfing his house a little bit.

[1:55:11] Yeah, I I don't I totally don't disagree with you at all from a contextual

[1:55:15] standpoint. It's just we have to look if we're looking at the house on its own.

[1:55:20] » That's where it feels a little over dominating. And I don't even think, and

[1:55:23] correct me if I'm wrong, you cannot this addition still would occur Angelo's next

[1:55:28] door on the corner. It still occurs. You can't see it from his sideyard.

[1:55:34] Correct. Like uh if you're on Randall, you wouldn't be able to see this

[1:55:39] from from Randall. Correct. Am I right looking at that?

[1:55:42] » Not very much of it, I wouldn't think. >> Okay. I don't think so. Yeah. No, I I

[1:55:48] again point well taken. I would if if the pitch of this roof were 125, I would

[1:55:54] I would have no problem with what I think you're presenting.

[1:55:58] So, you want to stop [clears throat]

[1:56:01] » even with even with the plate height staying

[1:56:05] at 8 foot, but we we can also we I I'll talk, you know, we'll talk after this

[1:56:09] and and >> so you you're you're proposing that we

[1:56:13] come back with some modifications. >> Yeah, I think you can you can just

[1:56:17] assess what's most what's going to work best for you guys without

[1:56:22] » without redoing. I do not like Alex said, I do think you're 90% there. I

[1:56:26] would not suggest going back to the drawing board whatsoever on this. I

[1:56:29] think it's more just a couple some some tweaks on whether you change the roof

[1:56:35] line, lower the plate a little bit. That could help soften it just a bit.

[1:56:40] » Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. I would sum up the window in

[1:56:43] the gable and then lower the plate to maybe six feet and uh and call it a day.

[1:56:51] Um so are you so you're talking lower the plate height um and then we would

[1:56:57] have to that because of um the ceiling height then we would have to go to a

[1:57:00] stick built and do a raised ceiling joist. Uh but you're you're saying lower

[1:57:06] the plate height a and could you live with

[1:57:10] slightly higher than six feet like maybe maybe uh even 6'6 if we lower the pitch

[1:57:15] and put a window in the gable and then we will raise the ceiling

[1:57:20] joists up to 8 foot inside. I think I think trust your I think uh

[1:57:28] see how it looks and if it if it's compelling to

[1:57:32] » right >> you know what I mean it's almost like

[1:57:35] trust trust we trust that you can figure out something that looks like you I

[1:57:39] think am I correct that you're hearing our feedback and that you can perhaps

[1:57:44] explore a couple ideas. Yeah, sure. And I we have a very tall family which is so

[1:57:48] I'm thinking maybe if we had 6'6 and it you know with a lower pitch and then

[1:57:52] raising we'll see how that looks and and that would lower the plate height by 18

[1:57:57] in. Well, we we can see I just don't want

[1:58:01] the kids to be banging their heads. >> That's fair. That's fair.

[1:58:04] » They're they're fairly small bedrooms, so we just want to make sure it's

[1:58:10] usable. >> Yeah, I can see that. I think it's a

[1:58:14] very, you know, the again the addition is something that seems like it'll be

[1:58:18] really impactful for you guys without overwhelming the floor plan of the

[1:58:22] house. It's more just that >> that massing feel

[1:58:27] understanding kind of the full picture of the con the context, but we just want

[1:58:31] to respect the house if it were standing alone.

[1:58:34] » Okay. >> Okay.

[1:58:37] » All right. Thank you. I cannot and again I don't think we have didn't uh we can't

[1:58:42] make a motion or anything but do you guys feel like you got adequate

[1:58:45] feedback? >> I think so. Jerry, what what do you what

[1:58:50] are your thoughts? >> Yeah, I feel good.

[1:58:53] » Okay. >> Are you guys um the the committee did

[1:58:57] you guys want to see this again after the changes had been made or do you just

[1:59:01] want me to pass this feedback on to the landmarks commission?

[1:59:07] I think I would prefer to see it again. >> Agreed.

[1:59:11] » Does that work for you, Jerry? Rebecca, you guys comfortable bringing it back to

[1:59:15] this committee after the changes have been explored?

[1:59:17] » Cool. >> As long as I can be a window guy,

[1:59:21] » I'm in. >> Fair.

[1:59:26] Um, all right. Right. Well, we will uh um I guess yeah, just get in touch with

[1:59:30] the with the Landmarks office when you've you know made the changes are

[1:59:33] ready to come back and we'll get you on an upcoming agenda uh hopefully towards

[1:59:37] the beginning of it. >> Awesome. Thank you.

[1:59:41] » Thank you very much. >> Have a great day.

[1:59:44] » You too. >> Thank you.

[1:59:48] » All right. >> I know we don't have quorum uh but

[1:59:50] you're going to have even fewer people. I have to recuse from this one. Uh so

[1:59:54] I'll be signing off but Understood. Thank you.

[1:59:58] » I am so have to recuse myself. >> Oh no. Okay.

[2:00:03] » All right. Nia. Nia. Margaret. It's all you. [laughter]

[2:00:05] » All you guys >> guys left us with a difficult one.

[2:00:11] » All right. Thank you. We're sign off. >> Thanks and Alex. We'll be talking about

[2:00:14] ITV banners, too.

[2:00:20] » Um >> I glitched out.

[2:00:22] » So, yeah, I think so. I wasn't sure what happened there, but uh we have case

[2:00:26] HOCC26-36. Um we have some street banners being

[2:00:31] proposed by Ohio City, Inc. West 25th and Detroit Avenue. So we've got Lily uh

[2:00:37] Bobman here from OCI. So you want to walk us through your proposal?

[2:00:42] » Yeah, thanks Dan. Um so essentially we are hoping to add to the scope of

[2:00:47] banners that we currently have up. So, I will make this as speedy as possible

[2:00:51] because I know that this has been rather long, but we in this presentation are

[2:00:55] discussing some additional Ohio City Incorporated banners over in the

[2:00:58] Hinchtown neighborhood and some Irishtown Bend banners. Uh, you can hit

[2:01:03] the next slide. Thank you. So, these are the designs previously

[2:01:08] approved. They are currently uh what's up. You'll see that in the next slide if

[2:01:13] you um I think this is a fairly efficient presentation. So, next slide.

[2:01:18] Um, please. So, these are them up. Um, these are the

[2:01:24] designs you guys approved back in February. Um, we are just looking to put

[2:01:27] them some in some additional locations. We already have them printed. They are

[2:01:30] all the same as the ones that are currently up. Uh, next slide, please.

[2:01:38] So, these are where we are proposing them. We have about 16 that we are

[2:01:42] looking to put up in the Hinchtown community or neighborhood part of Ohio

[2:01:46] City. Uh we are moving offices over to Detroit. We'll be in the Jamestown

[2:01:50] building next to Linda Superret. So we would like to have some banners there.

[2:01:55] But this is the general layout that we're looking to install them.

[2:01:59] Next slide. Um additionally, we would like to pair

[2:02:05] our OCI banners with the proposed ITV banners. Uh they will be on the west

[2:02:11] side of West 25th directly across from Irish Town Bend. um which will also be

[2:02:15] across from the Irish Ben banners that we are hoping to install as well.

[2:02:21] Next slide.

[2:02:24] Um so then these are the Irish Ben banners.

[2:02:28] Uh next slide. Here is the proposed design. Um you'll

[2:02:35] see that it's meant to mimic the curve of Irish Bend and it has all of our um

[2:02:42] what's the word? collaborators on the banner. So, we have um

[2:02:50] the city of Cleveland Metrop Parks, Land Studio, and then Ohio City Incorporated.

[2:02:53] And these will go across from the OCI banners that I just explained.

[2:02:59] The next slide has a map of where we're looking to put them, but we're proposing

[2:03:03] 13 along West 25th on the east side from Detroit to about Franklin. And that

[2:03:10] should essentially line the future park with a banner. The hope is that we'll be

[2:03:15] able to kind of welcome the park, get people excited about it, and continue to

[2:03:20] bring awareness to it.

[2:03:24] Next, yeah, so essentially to recap, we are proposing a total of 26 Ohio City

[2:03:28] banners. Uh 16 will be in the Hinchtown neighborhood, 10 will be on uh West

[2:03:33] 25th, and we are proposing 13 Irish Ben banners along West 25th as well.

[2:03:42] Thank you all.

[2:03:49] » All right, Margaret, don't be too harsh. [laughter]

[2:03:54] » Um, you know, I don't have a lot of comment. It always looks like a lot. It

[2:03:59] looked like a lot the last time on the maps, but in reality, I think it works

[2:04:04] well. Um, so yeah, I

[2:04:11] I'm inclined to just, you know, support it as as it is

[2:04:16] presented here.

[2:04:20] » Nia. >> Yeah, I agree. I [laughter]

[2:04:25] » beautiful. No, looks great. Approve as presented even though we can't today,

[2:04:32] but Dan, I don't know what their path forward looks like without quorum. So

[2:04:37] » yeah, we'll Lily, we'll we can chat and figure that out, but um seems pretty

[2:04:42] straightforward to me. So >> me, too. My understanding is it kind of

[2:04:46] just goes to landmarks and then city planning and then I think we're good.

[2:04:49] » Great. >> Yeah. Yeah, there's Yeah, I don't know.

[2:04:54] The right of way stuff is its own unique thing, but we we can chat.

[2:04:59] » Yeah, sounds good to me. Thank you both, Mia and Margaret and Dan.

[2:05:03] » Thanks. Thanks, Lily. >> Yeah.

[2:05:06] » All right. Ended with an easy one. >> Yes.

[2:05:10] » All right. >> Not too bad on our agenda time for

[2:05:12] another one. >> I think we did great.

[2:05:15] » Yeah. Hopefully next one will be a little shorter.

[2:05:18] » I know. I wouldn't mind one of those like two project agendas again.

[2:05:20] » I know. >> Or enough people to vote.

[2:05:24] » That would be real nice. That would be real.

[2:05:27] » And No, no. I mean, myself included, it's just been a tough

[2:05:31] like several months. But, um, now the kids are back at school, so I should

[2:05:36] have a much more consistent schedule. And no, hopefully no injuries. And no,

[2:05:39] » yeah, no more injuries. Yeah. >> Yes. If we could have no more injuries,

[2:05:41] that would be great. And then

[2:05:45] » you should see me, my face every other week.

[2:05:50] » All right. Well, thank you guys. We'll uh see you in a couple weeks.

[2:05:53] » All right. Thanks, Annie. >> Thank you.

[2:05:54] » Thank you. Actually, while you're all really here quickly, um I've been

[2:05:58] digging through historic photos. We have a few, well, we have like a handful from

[2:06:02] the county archives of homes in the neighborhood, and I've been able to find

[2:06:06] a few of people's personal homes. So, if you guys want me to dig for yours, I

[2:06:10] absolutely can. And Dan, on that note, I owe you a flash drive with all of the

[2:06:14] exact same photos so that city hall can have a record and not just us.

[2:06:17] » That'd be that'd be awesome. >> Thank you, I will happy to drop off a

[2:06:21] flash drive if you need one. I think Ben must have done Ben must Ben

[2:06:27] or someone must have done a deep dive a long time ago now because I literally

[2:06:31] just looked up our Whitman houses picture that he had emailed me in maybe

[2:06:34] 2013. So

[2:06:37] » yeah, my files have it as like one intern in 2012 was super committed to

[2:06:41] the county archives and like digitizing things and they did a really insane job

[2:06:46] because I scroll and I'm like this has to be at least 400

[2:06:50] » properties probably more. internship.

[2:06:54] » Yeah, exactly. >> So fun.

[2:06:57] » Especially because that was that was before the archives moved and so you

[2:07:01] could be like on Franklin in the atmosphere. Oh

[2:07:06] » yeah. Ah, the good old days. >> The good old days. Exactly.

[2:07:10] [laughter]

[2:07:13] » Let me know if you Yeah. If you want me to drop off a flash drive, we'd love to

[2:07:16] have those. >> Yeah, if you have one, that'd be great

[2:07:19] because our office is a show at the moment. So that would make getting that

[2:07:23] to you much easier. >> Awesome. I will uh I'll put that You

[2:07:26] guys are still on Lorraine right now? >> Okay, cool. I'll get one over.

[2:07:31] » Beautiful. >> Thank you.

[2:07:33] » Yeah. Thank you all. I hope you have a lovely rest of your day. Bye. You too.

[2:07:36] You too. Thanks all. Bye. Bye. >> Bye.

August 20th, 2026 Historic Ohio City Design Review Advisory Committee

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