[0:03] Call this meeting to order. We begin

[0:04] with the pledge.

[0:09] allegiance to the flag of the

[0:11] United States of America and to the

[0:14] republic for which it stands. One nation

[0:17] under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[0:20] justice for all.

[0:27] Welcome to the Anacma Township U

[0:30] Planning Commission. U regular meeting.

[0:34] Um

[0:38] we'll introduce ourselves first so you

[0:43] know who you're listening to. You ready?

[0:47] Ted Evans,

[0:49] David Gleason, Chris Ford, and Dave

[0:52] Wallace. Chair

[0:54] >> Cindy Juan Beckler, Township Trustee,

[0:57] appointee to planning commission.

[0:59] >> Thank you. Um

[1:02] uh

[1:04] are there any additions or corrections

[1:06] to the minutes?

[1:10] Otherwise, I would entertain a motion to

[1:12] approve those I mean the the agenda.

[1:15] Excuse me.

[1:16] Getting ahead of myself. make a motion

[1:20] >> to to approve to approve.

[1:23] >> All in favor say I. I.

[1:25] >> What was the second?

[1:27] >> Sorry. There you are.

[1:29] >> Now we're now we're down to the minutes

[1:32] uh of the June meeting.

[1:35] Um

[1:36] >> did you get those via email?

[1:38] >> Yes.

[1:39] >> Um so you do you see the minutes?

[1:42] >> Yes.

[1:42] >> Okay. Um are there any additions or

[1:45] corrections to those minutes? Otherwise,

[1:47] I would entertain a motion to approve

[1:48] those. Motion

[1:50] >> support.

[1:52] >> Moved by Gleon, second by fourth. All in

[1:56] favor say I. I.

[1:59] >> Minutes are approved.

[2:07] Okay.

[2:08] Was over there. Um this time we have any

[2:13] public comment?

[2:19] Seeing none, we'll move ahead.

[2:22] Uh first item of business is the um

[2:26] Little Eden special use permit amendment

[2:29] approval. Uh

[2:32] and uh Little Eden came to the planning

[2:36] commission

[2:38] and

[2:40] gases glasses. Here they here we are.

[2:44] um in 2017 uh to get a special use

[2:49] permit to do some uh demolition and

[2:52] reconstruction.

[2:54] And in that process uh they ran into

[2:58] some

[2:59] um like code requirements, I guess,

[3:03] might be the best way to describe it

[3:05] that uh required some some adjustment to

[3:08] locations and and footprint sizes of

[3:12] buildings. Um and uh this is a um in

[3:19] planning commission speak it it is a a

[3:21] minor amendment uh which means it does

[3:24] not need to go through uh public hearing

[3:28] process and which is long and drawn out.

[3:32] uh this is something that we can say um

[3:35] this is these are nonsubstantive changes

[3:38] um don't change the overall scope of the

[3:41] project and u we should be able to um

[3:48] move on on that that request

[3:51] Wayne Favor is here from the leaden uh

[3:54] do you have anything you'd like to

[3:56] >> I can just explain what yeah what the

[3:58] differences are from what was approved

[4:00] to what we're asking for if you want me

[4:02] to do that.

[4:03] >> Well, you know them better than better

[4:04] than I do.

[4:05] >> So, there's uh there's two buildings

[4:08] we're looking to do. The one square

[4:10] footage wise meets the same square

[4:12] footage that was previously approved in

[4:14] our bus use permits. Uh the larger of

[4:17] the two buildings, which is two cabins

[4:20] um

[4:21] was approved at 1620 square feet. We've

[4:25] had to eliminate a loft that was in that

[4:28] cabin um because of state requirements

[4:30] and also um commercial code has changed

[4:34] since the original approval. Um so we've

[4:36] had to put fire suppression in it which

[4:38] is adding 187 and a half square feet for

[4:43] fire suppression. Um, so the the cabin

[4:46] is going to be we'd like to do a cabin

[4:50] that's 428 square ft larger than what

[4:52] was proposed and approved back in 2017.

[4:58] So

[4:59] question is

[5:02] >> and some slight changes in orientation.

[5:04] It's going to be Yeah, because of the addition that we have to put on the

[5:08] larger building, the smaller building is

[5:10] going to um be tweaked off to the side

[5:14] like 20 ft. Um and the front building

[5:18] that was approved on the site plan.

[5:20] We're going to center it between the

[5:22] stream a little bit better than it shows

[5:23] on the plan. So, our our plan is to put

[5:27] it right between the two

[5:30] as one stream, but it circles around the

[5:32] cabin. So, we're going to center it. So

[5:34] it's, you know, equally spaced early.

[5:42] » Questions from commissioners?

[5:46] » Well, you

[5:52] anything?

[5:55] >> Then I would entertain a motion to

[5:58] approve this amendment.

[6:01] I'll make a motion. Second.

[6:05] Move by Aaron, second by Gleon to

[6:09] approve the

[6:10] um STP

[6:13] clinic amendment.

[6:15] Um

[6:17] and

[6:20] we'll do a roll call vote just for fun.

[6:23] Arens

[6:27] » I

[6:29] >> yes

[6:31] >> Wallace yes

[6:34] Thank you.

[6:37] >> Put out fires.

[6:40] » Hopefully your old.

[6:42] >> Yeah.

[6:43] >> Thank you.

[6:43] Wayne.

[6:46] Um,

[6:48] next item on the agenda is a brief

[6:52] update on Portage Point in. Um

[6:57] I

[6:59] was very pleased to learn uh the other

[7:01] day that uh the Portage Point in is uh

[7:06] making application

[7:08] to Eagle for installation of a private

[7:12] sewer um

[7:16] which would utilize the existing tanks.

[7:19] I I believe we'll utilize the existing

[7:21] tanks uh by the end and then um do an

[7:27] underground pipe to the ball field where

[7:31] the

[7:34] um rain field would be. Um this is not

[7:37] something that comes under the uh

[7:40] authority of district 10 [clears throat]

[7:42] because it's a private sewer and uh so

[7:46] Eagle takes over and uh I don't know

[7:50] that it's a a quick process but uh

[7:55] what what is with them um and so uh but

[8:00] this would be a a major step forward um

[8:04] and would open the door to the rest of

[8:09] many of the things that uh Bob Gazine

[8:12] would like to do. Um we can also report

[8:15] that um the gas dock is is now off the

[8:18] table. The um

[8:23] boat ramp is off the table and the boat

[8:27] barn which was going to be on the ball

[8:29] field. Uh there will still be a they'd

[8:32] still like to do a a maintenance shed

[8:35] there, but it would be um more of a an

[8:40] office for Duncan and a storage building

[8:44] for

[8:46] um

[8:47] portage point in

[8:50] equipment, tractors, um lawnmowers

[8:55] and the like. um but is not being looked

[8:58] at as for boat storage.

[9:01] So that's what we know and uh we will

[9:05] hope that uh

[9:08] this uh plan will work.

[9:12] Mr.

[9:13] already had uh uh Nordland Associates

[9:18] um to do the design work for that system

[9:23] and uh they have another company that

[9:26] they're working with who

[9:30] knows about how this type of a sewer

[9:32] system can function well. So,

[9:37] >> has there been any more dialogue about

[9:41] the lot and getting things removed from

[9:44] the lot? And now I understand there is

[9:48] concern about bladed property at the

[9:51] inning

[9:53] [clears throat] at the

[9:55] board meeting last night.

[10:00] » Um,

[10:00] >> yes.

[10:02] Well, the the biggest the biggest

[10:04] problem at the ball field is the sheet

[10:07] steel. Um and

[10:10] um I think Mr. Gazan still intends to

[10:16] replace the existing seaw wall because

[10:20] it's only 8ft pilings and I've heard

[10:22] rumors that it's perhaps washing out. Um

[10:27] and

[10:31] I haven't heard anything about um

[10:35] anything on the let's say the in

[10:37] property properly. I I do know that I'd

[10:40] like to encourage uh them to look

[10:44] towards um a PUB

[10:47] which

[10:49] um in the original DVU permit a long

[10:54] time ago

[10:56] um the planning commission said

[11:00] u oh you want to be a waterfront resort

[11:03] fine you're a waterfront resort oh you

[11:05] want a PUB oh fine you're a PUD and and

[11:08] That's not the way the PUB process

[11:10] works. There's paperwork involved. Um

[11:13] and [clears throat] most of that

[11:14] paperwork um Gazan already has

[11:19] um with um the biggest thing he would

[11:23] need to do is a site drawing with

[11:24] dimensions on it. But uh I've spoken

[11:29] with county planners and uh we think it

[11:31] would be a good avenue for him to pro um

[11:35] proceed with to give him the

[11:38] um flexibility to

[11:42] um work with the um the old casino

[11:47] location

[11:49] uh without difficulties.

[11:53] So that's what I know. Any

[11:58] questions out there from anyone?

[12:01] >> Yeah, if you're inviting them,

[12:02] >> I'll invite a question because

[12:04] >> Well, we can wait till the public

[12:06] comment or

[12:07] >> Well, it's on your it's on your

[12:09] >> Well, I'm just You said flexibility to

[12:12] work with the casino. What?

[12:15] >> Well, to do what? um a um

[12:21] without a PUB

[12:24] um any kind of

[12:27] new construction has to meet zoning

[12:30] codes.

[12:32] Um he's an RR3

[12:35] and um now most of his property is

[12:38] grandfathered

[12:40] there forever. But if but new

[12:43] construction would have to meet road

[12:46] setbacks and all kinds of things. A PUD

[12:49] offers some flexibility because you

[12:52] you're doing some open space and some

[12:57] uh and he's got plenty of he's got

[12:59] enough acreage that he can meet those

[13:02] requirements. We I believe.

[13:05] >> So at what point will he need a major

[13:08] amendment to the SU? I mean, these are

[13:11] positive changes, but I mean, they're

[13:13] major changes.

[13:14] >> The the the SUP will have to be looked

[13:18] at to remove some of those things, which

[13:21] he's no longer planning on doing. I

[13:24] mean, it's got a it's got it's got a a

[13:26] gas in the SU. If he's [clears throat]

[13:30] not going to do that anymore, we need to

[13:32] get that out of the SU. Mhm.

[13:35] >> Well, another consideration too is, you

[13:38] know, the big issue back, what was it,

[13:40] 2017 when this was approved was parking.

[13:44] And so part of the parking, there were

[13:46] like a hundred spots

[13:49] in the boat barn. So, I mean, that's

[13:51] always going to be an issue over there

[13:53] depending on how much more he plans to

[13:55] do. Wow.

[13:56] >> So, I'm concerned is the is the drain

[13:58] field or whatever he's doing how many

[14:01] square feet is that kind of

[14:02] >> he's got he's got plenty of room I've

[14:05] seen preliminary sites and he's got

[14:09] plenty of room for a drain field. It's

[14:11] not um it's not like a water treatment

[14:15] plant that takes

[14:18] acres and acres. Do you know when he I

[14:20] noticed over there that the utilities

[14:23] have all been at least the gas lines all

[14:25] been flagged. Spicer was over there

[14:28] surveying the rightway. I

[14:29] >> I have no idea what that's about.

[14:32] >> I assume has something to do with

[14:34] >> could [laughter]

[14:37] >> it goes all the way it goes all the way

[14:38] from to the ball field and stuff.

[14:41] >> He wouldn't he wouldn't be doing that

[14:44] work this soon. I don't think

[14:47] not without a a more positive sign from

[14:50] eagle.

[14:53] >> He's got to have his

[14:57] » um

[14:58] >> Yeah.

[14:58] >> I have a question that if if he were to

[15:03] be able to put in his drain or into the septic system, would this uh allow

[15:10] him to put in a culinary school like he

[15:12] talked about?

[15:13] >> No, the culinary school is history.

[15:15] Okay.

[15:15] >> He'd like he'd still like to he has the drawings for the hotel

[15:21] um renovation and of course it that

[15:25] renovation hinged on a septic system.

[15:29] Um, and he'd like to put in a restaurant

[15:34] for and a and a kitchen for that

[15:37] restaurant and not the 4500 square foot

[15:42] kitchen he was going to put in for the

[15:44] culinary institute.

[15:46] >> This would be able to this would allow

[15:47] him to have a restaurant.

[15:49] >> Oh, and still he'd still have the

[15:51] restaurant, but

[15:51] >> regular restaurant.

[15:55] >> Okay. No. Did he say is this like a

[15:58] regular like gravity sewer or a step

[16:01] system? Don't know.

[16:03] >> I don't care.

[16:06] >> Stay tuned.

[16:07] >> Did he say what he's Is he has he got

[16:09] permission from the road commission or

[16:11] what's the status of

[16:13] >> I don't know.

[16:13] >> Stay tuned.

[16:14] >> Okay.

[16:16] >> I'll go over and ask them.

[16:18] >> Be my guest.

[16:21] >> Okay. Moving right along. Um

[16:27] we were approached by uh Networks

[16:31] Northwest who was uh working uh up in

[16:35] this area as many of you may have read

[16:37] in the newspapers that uh um Manasty

[16:40] County is kind of a uh a daycare desert

[16:45] and they were looking at ways that they

[16:48] could make um communities more

[16:52] accessible for uh daycare opportunities.

[16:56] Um Networks Northwest has uh drafted

[17:00] language for a um an amendment to our

[17:07] zoning ordinance. Um and there is grant

[17:12] funding from the community foundation

[17:16] um which will pay for um the the

[17:20] publication of the of the public hearing

[17:23] notice. It'll pay for the drafting of

[17:26] all the language. Um it uh and so

[17:32] the

[17:34] only cost we would probably incur would

[17:36] be um a review by our attorney u just to

[17:41] look at this and say you know yeah I've

[17:44] seen I've seen about 10 of these come to

[17:46] be by my desk for all the other

[17:48] townships that are doing it and I think

[17:50] uh um the village is you

[17:54] >> yeah we're we're done with our draft and

[17:56] the public hearing is scheduled next

[17:58] month.

[17:59] >> See? Well, so we have um

[18:04] this uh definition and and uh and then

[18:09] uh amendments to all the different

[18:12] zoning classifications.

[18:15] And uh

[18:17] I'd like to see this uh move forward. We

[18:20] would have a public hearing on it and uh

[18:24] and then uh recommend

[18:28] action by the township board to add it

[18:32] to our existing zoning ordinance.

[18:39] Any

[18:41] reactions?

[18:43] Jimmy, I see you.

[18:45] I don't know if Metrics Northwest struck

[18:47] out the location

[18:50] requirements

[18:52] and nothing was added back into that

[18:55] separation

[18:57] between the group daycare homes which

[18:59] can be up to 14 kids

[19:02] as you hear Florida. I know in the

[19:04] village we we left it did modify it a

[19:08] little bit. Um the village also had the

[19:12] village didn't have anything when it came to this other than allowing

[19:15] them but we put in there um that

[19:21] um one licensed group daycare phone had

[19:24] to be at least 1,000 ft [clears throat]

[19:26] travel distance from another or 300

[19:30] supplies

[19:33] um

[19:35] and

[19:37] from from

[19:39] my experience. You get two group daycare

[19:42] homes

[19:43] next to one another or even one 14 kids

[19:47] out in the backyard screaming during the

[19:49] summer months. Uh kind of disrupts, you

[19:52] know, the neighbors and especially if in

[19:56] this area there's a lot of retirees and

[19:58] older people than they, you know, you

[20:01] might perhaps

[20:02] >> you might want to you know, separate

[20:04] them a little bit. I don't know if

[20:06] you'll get a group daycare home in this

[20:08] area. It's possible. I know I know

[20:10] there's uh from what I understand

[20:13] there's a waiting list to get into the

[20:14] daycare facility of the schools.

[20:17] >> Uh so we know that so we know there's a

[20:19] need in the area. Uh but that that

[20:22] really is what he's smiling about. You

[20:24] know, if you'd like to share with the

[20:27] other members the villages like draft

[20:29] language, I'd be glad to send that out

[20:31] when you email. Well, and we could check

[20:33] with Mike Sakola as to what his

[20:35] reasoning was for the leading in the

[20:39] township.

[20:42] Um,

[20:43] >> and I know it's to it's to encourage

[20:45] these types of uses and and they are

[20:48] very valuable use. Uh, but I think it's

[20:52] important for for the communities to be,

[20:54] you know, sensitive the neighbors and

[20:56] where these where these locate.

[20:58] >> I'd like to see the reason. And then we

[21:01] also put in language that if if a

[21:06] proposed daycare facility didn't meet

[21:08] the spacing requirements that the

[21:10] planning commission could approve it

[21:11] anyway subject to a to a public hearing

[21:14] and getting input, you know, from the

[21:16] neighbors. So, if it wasn't it wasn't a

[21:19] slam the door on if you don't meet those black and white numbers,

[21:26] but I'll send it out.

[21:28] >> All right. [clears throat]

[21:33] So,

[21:35] >> has has Jody been involved in any of

[21:37] these so far?

[21:38] >> I am. I am very involved with the child

[21:41] care and um but I don't know why it was

[21:44] excluded. I think it's a good point, but

[21:47] I also think the ability to wave, you

[21:49] know, if if it's not included is a good

[21:52] one. I'm going to ask Mexico

[21:55] myself too or at least let them know

[21:57] that you'll be reaching out,

[22:00] but we'll see. Um, but you know, being a

[22:04] parent in the area, it was very

[22:05] difficult to find it was very difficult

[22:08] to find there.

[22:09] >> Just because we lift the regulations or

[22:11] make them easier to get through doesn't

[22:12] mean that we're going to magically have

[22:14] more daycarees in the area. It just

[22:16] makes it a little bit easier for anybody

[22:18] who would like to. That's my view. Oh,

[22:20] the other thing that the village did was

[22:23] substantially reduce the fee or at least

[22:25] recommending it right now uh at $150

[22:29] because in speaking with Mike, he said

[22:31] our notification requirements for

[22:33] something like this through the the

[22:35] local newspaper is about $90.

[22:38] Uh uh and then so then we just set up a

[22:40] little 7150

[22:42] uh but you're going to have mailings uh

[22:45] and then you know a little bit for staff

[22:48] time

[22:50] but I think I think the township is 750

[22:53] for an SU.

[22:55] >> Yes, that's

[22:56] >> that's pretty steep to ask uh you know a

[23:00] homeowner or a mother who might be

[23:02] staying home with their two kids you

[23:05] know to spend you know $750. I think

[23:08] that I think that's pretty hot.

[23:10] >> Work for free for the first month.

[23:12] [laughter]

[23:14] Watch these kids for free. I think we

[23:16] should get a cut. [laughter]

[23:18] >> Yeah,

[23:20] >> I will. I do wonder um if since I've

[23:23] been invited to to speak, I do wonder if

[23:26] there are suggested distances between

[23:31] different daycarees so that we could

[23:33] find if we do decide that we want

[23:35] something if there's a standard set that

[23:39] so it's not just an arbitrary distance.

[23:41] >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's tough. I mean

[23:44] when you look at model ordinances you're

[23:46] going to see a lot of 1500 and

[23:48] recognizing the need for it in the

[23:51] community and you know even 1500,000

[23:54] feet that thousand feet is still quite a

[23:57] bit spacing and and as a crow flies

[23:58] you'll see a lot of 500. We decided,

[24:01] well, let's let's let's lower it down to 300 because a travel distance, you

[24:06] could just go right around the block and

[24:08] you could have the two rear yards above

[24:09] one another if you if you don't have in

[24:12] there something about property line to

[24:14] property line.

[24:20] » So, would you like to

[24:24] wait for some some clarification on some

[24:27] of these items before [clears throat] we

[24:30] push it forward or would you like to get

[24:34] it in the hopper and

[24:38] assume we're going to get some answers

[24:40] and we would still be able to modify it

[24:42] at the public hearing. How much lead

[24:45] time do you need between now and our

[24:46] next meeting before we have a notice of

[24:49] today?

[24:50] >> 15 days. 15 days for public. So, we have

[24:52] two weeks after this meeting to get

[24:54] everything

[24:56] >> put together before we notice it. And

[24:59] that's coming in at the last minute.

[25:03] » I'd say go ahead with it because you can

[25:05] always modify it,

[25:07] you know, or if you have a public

[25:09] hearing, you don't have to make a motion

[25:11] to either approve or or I guess deny.

[25:14] You could always just table it for, you

[25:16] know, to another meeting as well.

[25:20] >> But if we were wanting to incorporate

[25:22] some of the village language in it,

[25:25] wouldn't we have to have a new public

[25:26] hearing?

[25:30] No,

[25:31] >> one one required public hearing at that

[25:34] public hearing discuss what the changes

[25:36] may be. [clears throat]

[25:45] » I'm listening.

[25:46] >> Yeah, I'm fine with moving it forward as

[25:50] long as we would have the ability to

[25:52] possibly incorporate similar language

[25:55] that the village is using. And I think

[25:58] my thought process with that is if in

[26:00] fact it was acceptable. I just feel

[26:03] anytime

[26:04] the village and the township can mirror

[26:07] each other on a lot of different issues,

[26:11] especially something like this, it makes

[26:12] sense to me rather than having the

[26:14] village have one standard and the

[26:17] township have another. Yeah. So,

[26:22] » okay.

[26:23] >> One thing that um with this ordinance

[26:25] amendment, Mike tried to do is unify it

[26:28] across the county because they looked at

[26:30] it as a county project which is why

[26:33] we're involved, right?

[26:34] >> And they looked at everybody to try to

[26:36] bring it all to the state regulations

[26:37] that are out.

[26:38] >> So, it is very

[26:40] >> close. Right. Other than the comment

[26:42] that made

[26:44] >> because Yeah. Because everybody had

[26:45] their own take on that. Yes.

[26:54] » So,

[26:57] >> do we need a motion on this, do we?

[27:00] Well, actually, you can do public

[27:02] hearing

[27:03] >> to set up the public hearing.

[27:06] >> Okay. Well, I'll offer a motion that the

[27:09] planning commission accept for public

[27:11] hearing uh an ordinance with regards to

[27:15] uh uh consideration of zoning code

[27:18] amendments involving child daycare.

[27:22] >> Second.

[27:26] » Okay.

[27:28] Do we need to specify a

[27:30] >> what's the date?

[27:31] >> A date.

[27:33] >> Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

[27:37] So it would be the September 17 meeting.

[27:45] Okay.

[27:49] Any other discussion?

[27:52] All in favor say I. I.

[27:55] >> Okay. So, we need you to do a little

[27:58] homework and as we get answers, we'll

[28:01] keep you all informed

[28:04] and

[28:06] um

[28:12] so we could still make

[28:16] minor adjustments up to the publication

[28:19] date or or

[28:22] >> hearing you can make adjustments.

[28:23] >> I know. But if but when we publish if we

[28:27] could publish with some of the answers

[28:29] to some of these questions it would be

[28:31] nice.

[28:32] >> Yeah.

[28:35] >> All right. Thank you.

[28:40] Um

[28:41] the next thing on our on our agenda is

[28:44] um article 1012

[28:47] which is a section of the ordinance um

[28:50] dealing with um roads

[28:54] um public roads, local roads, minor

[28:57] roads.

[28:58] Um

[29:00] and uh

[29:02] this was on our agenda

[29:05] um largely for

[29:08] um a u

[29:12] a residence a local resident issue with

[29:15] access to his property which we've since

[29:19] found another avenue to address.

[29:22] But Jody, you still have concerns about

[29:28] >> 1012.

[29:29] >> I do. It's um it's a every summer

[29:33] activity that I have to um try to apply

[29:36] 1012 and it's really difficult for

[29:39] property owners to get through. First,

[29:42] we're using we use private roads and

[29:45] undeveloped platted roads in the same

[29:48] context, but they're different. Buted

[29:51] roads are owned by the township and

[29:53] private roads are owned obviously by

[29:57] the, you know, site condos or what or

[30:00] the deed holders or whoever owns that

[30:02] private road. And so applying standards

[30:06] for both of them is very difficult. And a lot of times

[30:12] like this would work really well if it

[30:14] was a brand new road. If we were

[30:15] creating a brand new neighborhood with a

[30:17] brand new private road that ran through

[30:18] it, this would make sense. But we don't

[30:21] have a lot of that development

[30:22] happening, especially in the resort

[30:24] residential. We have plotted roads that

[30:27] people have twotracked and built um

[30:30] beautiful homes on along the lake shore.

[30:32] And then we have the last person who

[30:34] wants to develop the last parcel on the

[30:36] road. And um they're caught holding the

[30:40] bag per this ordinance to develop the

[30:43] road and establish a maintenance

[30:45] agreement with all their neighbors that

[30:47] have already been using the road and you

[30:50] know maybe don't want to enter that

[30:52] maintenance agreement. [laughter] hand

[30:54] or like you know they see that if they

[30:57] enter this maintenance agreement their

[30:58] neighbor gets to develop it. It it gives

[31:00] a lot of control where um and a lot of

[31:04] difficulty for that last person wanting

[31:06] to develop. But there's been numerous

[31:10] um examples. Ivan Hoe is one. If you

[31:13] guys have ever driven on Ivanho the

[31:15] going towards the water it's very I ran

[31:18] into the UPS truck out there. I couldn't

[31:20] even believe the UPS truck could get out

[31:21] there. Um, but there's a new house out

[31:24] there. And then we see it on High

[31:27] Street, which is up in Pierport, which

[31:29] is a plattered road.

[31:31] Um, and so there's a lot of difficulties

[31:35] getting through this. So, I think if we

[31:36] read it as a whole and thought about

[31:39] separating private from unflatted roads

[31:41] and what we really want people

[31:43] responsible for and what um, maybe

[31:46] private road owners should just be

[31:48] responsible for or new roads. And then

[31:51] also the township attorney wants us to

[31:54] look at this um because there's platted

[31:58] roadways on the beaches. And then

[32:01] there's the new repairarian rights

[32:04] um new it's you know 20ish years old now

[32:08] that the

[32:10] private property owners have repairarian

[32:12] rights out to the water whether there's

[32:14] an undeveloped road there or not. And

[32:16] so, especially on the Lake Michigan

[32:19] side, they want to put out their Lake

[32:20] Michigan um boardwalks to get down to

[32:23] their beaches and things, but it has to

[32:25] go over this public

[32:28] platted roadway. And so the township

[32:30] attorney has a some opinions on how we

[32:33] can make it possible for the repairarian

[32:35] rights to be um

[32:39] acknowledged and then also remain in

[32:41] compliance with the zoning ordinance

[32:43] because right now it's not as clean as

[32:45] we'd like to see it.

[32:48] I have some suggestions. I have a marked

[32:50] up copy. You guys don't have a copy of

[32:52] that. But if we're doing text

[32:54] amendments, you know, or if we're

[32:56] thinking about it, I know we're going to

[32:57] be starting in October. So, I'll be

[33:00] pushing my wish list of amendments that

[33:03] have been an issue as probably next year

[33:06] as we move through it. But um if you

[33:10] this is the one that continually comes

[33:12] up and we kind of we want to administer

[33:16] exactly as it's written but

[33:20] it's it's just very difficult to find a

[33:22] way through. Everybody gets caught in

[33:24] the net and then we just don't see

[33:26] development. They just fall off. They

[33:28] just stop communicating with me because

[33:30] at the at some point there's no reason

[33:32] there's no way to get through it.

[33:35] So, what are like the top one or two

[33:37] issues that that these potential

[33:39] homeowners would have with it that that

[33:41] makes them walk away from it?

[33:42] >> The private road maintenance agreement

[33:45] is [clears throat] one and then the

[33:47] difference between

[33:50] unplatted roads and private roads. If

[33:53] it's um an unplatted road,

[33:57] um I I'm not sure. This is where we

[34:00] would want to talk to our township

[34:02] attorney. But can a

[34:05] citizen

[34:07] develop

[34:08] do we want a citizen developing

[34:11] platted roads that are the township

[34:13] property,

[34:14] you know, or or does the township want

[34:16] to be involved in that? Do we not care?

[34:19] Do we is it okay? Do we want to see two

[34:21] tracks back to mansions because that is

[34:23] the the way that the resort residential

[34:26] works around here. It's um

[34:29] >> well, from a first responder

[34:32] >> perspective, I certainly wouldn't want,

[34:35] you know, a two track going back to a to

[34:37] a large home, you know, five, six, 700

[34:39] feet off off a main road.

[34:41] >> Yes. Yeah. And some are um treacherous.

[34:46] I've been stuck in the Ford Escape in

[34:49] the winter at the bottom of a hill.

[34:51] Luckily, the property owner there has a

[34:53] shovel for me, but I've been stuck out

[34:55] there in the winter trying to get out.

[34:58] And so, I don't know how we want to look

[35:00] at it. I we need to look at it and

[35:03] figure it out. Um, but I don't know what

[35:04] the right answer is. And I don't expect

[35:06] you guys to know either, but reading it

[35:08] and trying to apply it and see all the

[35:11] different scenarios. I'm available for

[35:13] those types of discussions if you guys

[35:15] want to get into it deep.

[35:18] >> Do you want to send us your markdown?

[35:20] Yeah, that'd be helpful.

[35:22] >> Yeah. I I'd like to see if you ruled the

[35:26] world, how would you write it?

[35:28] >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah.

[35:32] >> If I could speak on that, she I've

[35:34] talked to her. I'm one of those property

[35:37] owners that has five acres that's off of

[35:40] Clark Road. Um and there's a paper road

[35:44] that the township owns there. And I've

[35:46] been for one year trying to talk with

[35:49] the township and try to access this to

[35:53] get that that's the only way to access

[35:55] this property line is to access it

[35:58] through a paper road that the township

[36:00] has. And moving forward, you know,

[36:03] according to the regulations, you

[36:05] basically want to put a road in that is

[36:09] like better than the county road that

[36:11] actually goes into this paper road that

[36:13] the township has. according to the the

[36:17] regulations that were written in this,

[36:19] you know, these ordinance. So for an

[36:21] amendment like she was talking about to

[36:25] make it where it's it's accessible for

[36:28] you EMS or whatever is obviously very

[36:31] reasonable but at the same time to have

[36:34] a 20 foot wide

[36:36] um road with a foot of um

[36:41] gravel and I'm the only one that's going

[36:43] to utilize it because all the other

[36:45] property owners that would actually even

[36:48] touch it have deeded easements from

[36:50] roads somewhere other than that paper

[36:52] road. It really doesn't make a lot of

[36:54] sense. Like she said, why somebody's

[36:56] going to develop it according to an

[36:58] ordinance that you have driveways all

[37:00] over the township that are two tracks

[37:04] that that are basically the same thing

[37:06] that I I need to do is access my

[37:08] property through that township paper

[37:11] road. So, I mean, like I said, I've been

[37:15] dealing with the township and with

[37:16] talking with David and everyone about

[37:18] this so we can try to, you know, come to

[37:22] some kind of, you know,

[37:25] >> I I remember hearing the discussion

[37:26] about your property at the township

[37:28] board meetings and and I think probably

[37:30] your property would be one that would be

[37:35] part of the discussion of of how we can

[37:40] modify 1012

[37:42] to

[37:44] uh

[37:45] try to try the best we can to address

[37:48] situations uh like this one. Uh

[37:54] um and but uh you know the uh the

[37:59] difficulty in making adjustments to the

[38:02] ordinance is it affects [clears throat]

[38:06] everyone.

[38:08] So, right. Just because we fix it for

[38:11] >> we fix this problem doesn't mean we're

[38:13] not creating 15 other problems

[38:16] >> somewhere else.

[38:18] >> Can I did you are you going to talk

[38:20] about the you were there? So, go I

[38:22] didn't see that.

[38:22] >> I was going to bring it up. Yeah, we

[38:24] received um an opinion from an attorney

[38:29] and unfortunately we got it very late at

[38:33] our meeting and there is another issue

[38:36] that rose up with that because the

[38:40] belief is that that is not a paper road

[38:45] that it is privately owned.

[38:53] Well, like I said, you know,

[38:56] >> well, I I mean, your question is still

[38:58] well taken. Well, my my point is is when

[39:02] you have

[39:03] >> when you have these I mean when you talk

[39:05] to the township supervisor and you talk

[39:07] to the county road commission manager

[39:09] and you know you're kind of in this gray

[39:12] area that you guys are talking about but

[39:14] you're being told that yes this is you

[39:17] know a township road and so you move

[39:20] forward on purchasing property based on

[39:23] what is being told to you by the people

[39:25] that are that should know this stuff And

[39:29] then all of a sudden, you know, you find

[39:30] out something totally different later.

[39:33] You know, there there's got to be kind

[39:35] of, you know, I mean, why does it show

[39:39] that it's there if it's not really

[39:41] there? You're Lenny, right?

[39:43] >> Yes. Yeah. I mean, you know, you should

[39:45] get a copy of that. It's not wasn't

[39:47] attorney client privilege from the clerk

[39:49] on Monday or maybe you can send it to

[39:51] him because I think it basically says

[39:55] uh Richard Wilson wasn't able to figure

[39:57] out who actually owns it.

[40:00] >> Somebody from 187

[40:02] it's not it's not it's not on the I mean

[40:05] to a point the first part of it my

[40:07] opinion is it's part of the plat park

[40:09] edition but beyond that kind of where

[40:12] that first driveway peels off Yeah. Who

[40:15] owns it?

[40:16] >> Yeah.

[40:16] >> Well, you have to look at the dedication

[40:19] on the plat typically. Typically, it'll

[40:21] tell you that

[40:22] >> it's not in the rightways and so forth,

[40:25] walkways, whatever might be is dedicated

[40:28] to the public.

[40:29] >> Correct.

[40:29] >> And then in that case, then

[40:32] >> the private individual doesn't own it.

[40:35] >> That's a different discussion.

[40:36] >> But this this property is not within a

[40:38] plat.

[40:39] >> Oh, it's not within a plat. It's next to

[40:41] it's like dead unplanned space that does

[40:44] appear to look like a paper road

[40:47] >> and divisions have been based off from

[40:50] this dead space that which is what Lenny

[40:53] is referencing.

[40:54] >> But then when we do some really deep

[40:57] research, we have discovered that

[41:01] >> it's just dead space. Dead unplanned

[41:04] space.

[41:05] >> Quick.

[41:08] [laughter]

[41:09] Well, it's it's kind of like the old

[41:10] way. You just kind of I mean, honestly,

[41:12] a lot of people would just put a road in

[41:14] and never even tell nobody and then it

[41:16] just kind of like is a road that's there

[41:18] and you you utilize it and nobody says

[41:21] anything. But that's not,

[41:23] >> you know, that's not the correct way of

[41:25] doing things.

[41:25] >> Okay. Well,

[41:28] >> hence the need to look at 1012.

[41:30] >> Yeah.

[41:31] >> Okay. They're waiting for you.

[41:33] >> Thank you, Jody.

[41:34] >> You're welcome. Um,

[41:38] move on. Any public comment?

[41:40] >> I just had a question on the daycare

[41:42] ordinance because I don't know anything

[41:44] about it. Are these these are in homes?

[41:46] Is that what we're talking about?

[41:48] >> Mhm.

[41:49] >> The daycare s in people's homes. So, are

[41:53] those like licensed, regulated?

[41:55] Absolutely. Number of kids per square

[41:57] foot, all that stuff.

[41:59] You you want to see what these what

[42:00] these

[42:02] >> I'll I'll say moms that that want to run

[42:04] a daycare out of their home what they're

[42:05] up against when they start looking at

[42:06] the state regulations for these things.

[42:08] It was what like 37 pages.

[42:10] >> Huge.

[42:11] >> But yeah,

[42:12] >> it comes with it own handbook. And

[42:14] [laughter]

[42:15] >> basically these regulations just say we say what the state says. If the state

[42:21] says it's fine, researching

[42:24] those regulations and I didn't see

[42:26] anywhere that it that the state would

[42:28] require in writing that the the outside

[42:30] clearing has to be fenced.

[42:32] >> It suggested

[42:33] >> Yeah.

[42:33] >> I didn't see that it was an actual

[42:35] requirement, though.

[42:36] >> Well, my daycare doesn't have a fence

[42:38] in, but she's in the middle of the

[42:39] woods, so I think it could be like

[42:42] situational. If the kid runs away into

[42:44] the woods, then [laughter]

[42:46] >> you miss a kid, they'll show up with

[42:48] army.

[42:50] » [laughter]

[42:51] >> Okay.

[42:53] Um,

[42:55] public comment

[42:57] >> any

[42:58] >> that was it.

[43:03] » Then without objection, I'm going to

[43:05] adjourn this meeting. Thank you very

[43:07] much.

[43:07] >> Thank you.

[43:08] >> Yes.

[43:24] reimburse.

[43:42] » I'll be seeing I'll be seeing John

[43:43] later. I'll tell him back.

[43:46] He wants to make a change, right?

[43:48] >> Um,

[43:48] >> we're going to knock it down, you and I.

[43:50] >> Oh, yeah.

[43:50] >> Yeah.

Onekama Township Planning Commission Meeting 2026-08-20

Transcript