[1:59] Mhm.

[3:50] » Black sesame water.

[3:51] >> Here's special order.

[3:52] >> Wow.

[3:53] >> So, just want to make sure it's

[9:37] » Worm City Council and Lehi City Council,

[9:40] welcome.

[9:41] I've asked um

[9:43] Council member Chris Kilpack if he would

[9:45] offer a blessing on the food and an

[9:47] invocation.

[9:54] » Heavenly Father, we're mindful of our

[9:56] blessings this day as we've met in this

[9:58] combined council meeting

[10:00] to deliberate over those items that will

[10:02] bless and benefit our communities.

[10:05] We're thankful for the opportunity to

[10:07] serve

[10:08] in ways that will lift and strengthen

[10:10] citizens and those who live in our midst

[10:14] to uh provide

[10:16] those basic services and also

[10:18] opportunities to

[10:19] provide a

[10:21] lifestyle of uh joy and happiness within

[10:23] community and outreach.

[10:26] We're thankful for the

[10:28] food that's been prepared that might

[10:29] provide us energy and nourishment and

[10:31] pray that it will do so.

[10:33] We open this time under the and ask that

[10:35] care and keeping spirit will abide with

[10:37] us that we might deliberate in ways that

[10:39] will strengthen

[10:40] our bonds of unity together in these

[10:42] communities

[10:43] and also help us to go forth and uh helped in every way to move forward

[10:49] those important goals that we each have.

[10:52] We ask for thy blessing in the name of

[10:53] Jesus Christ. Amen.

[10:56] >> Thank you, Council members.

[10:58] What I'd like to do because

[11:00] I'm

[11:01] got to be refreshed with names here. If

[11:03] we can just go around and introduce

[11:05] ourselves and say what what brings you

[11:07] here?

[11:09] We'll go ahead and start right here and

[11:10] just go over with

[11:12] >> An invitation.

[11:13] left.

[11:15] >> Gunner Jacobson, I'm on the Lehi City

[11:17] Council and apparently I chose this seat

[11:19] with just one person on this side. It's

[11:21] [clears throat] not that I'm antisocial.

[11:22] I just have

[11:23] >> I said I guess I'm

[11:24] Uh that's it.

[11:26] >> If we

[11:27] >> Welcome here. We're We can bring some

[11:28] people up next to you.

[11:30] >> [laughter]

[11:32] >> And then we have our It like Teresa's

[11:33] busy and Teresa's our city recorder.

[11:37] And Bradley Day is our

[11:39] He's helping Teresa. He's Oh, I Bradley,

[11:42] I can't remember your new title. I'm so

[11:44] sorry.

[11:44] >> I'm the sustainability officer.

[11:46] >> Okay, thank you.

[11:47] All right.

[11:48] >> I'm Cole Wholey, Linden City Council.

[11:51] I'm Kawi, the Linden City Administrator.

[11:55] Steve Stewart, Linden City Council.

[11:57] Van Broderick, Linden City Council.

[12:00] Chris Kilpack, Orem City Council.

[12:02] >> Crystal Mielsteen, Orem City Council.

[12:05] Lenny Millet, City Council.

[12:08] >> I'm Andy Orem City Manager.

[12:10] >> I'm Karen McCandless, I'm Orem City

[12:12] Treasurer.

[12:13] >> I'm Lyn Berggren.

[12:14] >> Thank you. Karen McCandless.

[12:16] >> Orem City Mayor.

[12:18] >> I'm Quinn Mecham, Orem City Council.

[12:20] Jeff Lambson, Orem City Council.

[12:23] >> Dan Gale, Orem City Council.

[12:25] >> Let's Let's go ahead and catch the

[12:26] people around the edges of the room as

[12:28] well.

[12:29] >> Hello, Mark.

[12:30] >> City Engineer.

[12:31] >> Juan Garrido, Public Works Director.

[12:35] >> Reed Price, the Public Utilities

[12:36] Director.

[12:38] >> Gary Gygi, Community Development

[12:39] Director.

[12:40] >> Ryan Farquhar, Orem Assistant City

[12:42] Manager.

[12:43] >> BJ Robinson, Chief of Police, Orem.

[12:46] >> Mike Brown, Orem City Attorney.

[12:54] » Bryce Merrill, Community Services

[12:56] Director, Orem.

[12:57] >> Mike Clines, Orem City Engineer.

[13:00] >> And you're welcome. All of you to our

[13:03] meeting today.

[13:05] And go ahead and get started. Um item

[13:08] number 1.1, we're going to move

[13:11] down a little bit until uh Terry Rugg,

[13:13] our Deputy City Manager, arrives.

[13:16] And she's running a

[13:17] She's got another commitment, she's

[13:19] running a little bit late. So, we're

[13:20] going to go ahead and go to item 1.2,

[13:23] which is a discussion about the renewal

[13:25] of the fire EMS services. And so, I'm

[13:28] going to turn the time over to our one

[13:31] of our chief Mark Sanderson.

[13:33] >> Here.

[13:35] I appreciate the time and the volume you

[13:37] guys have put together to to two-page,

[13:39] three-page sheet here that has got some

[13:41] bullet points

[13:42] really

[13:43] buying not only our relationship with

[13:45] the services we've provided.

[13:48] Second, the back page of that is the

[13:49] current

[13:51] employee staff organization.

[13:54] And then I've attached I've attached

[13:56] this uh

[13:58] sheet

[13:59] that is in reference to NFPA 1710, which

[14:02] is the staffing requirements of the

[14:03] calls.

[14:05] So, if I can just start at the top, I

[14:07] just want to

[14:08] express how grateful I am for our

[14:11] long-term partnership.

[14:13] Um I've been more impressed over the

[14:15] last 6 years, specifically the last

[14:17] three,

[14:18] how the relationship has improved from

[14:21] uh administrative

[14:24] perspective.

[14:25] The relationship, I think the

[14:26] transparency between

[14:28] Brendan and Adam, amazing. The level of

[14:31] trust that we've developed

[14:34] in the

[14:35] last couple of years, I think is

[14:37] significant to why we are able to

[14:40] relationship with the company.

[14:42] Uh

[14:43] our fire operations, I think one of our

[14:45] the highlights with One of Fire is that

[14:48] we're one of the only departments in the

[14:50] state that actually have operating

[14:53] manuals. How we operate our truck, how

[14:55] we operate our engines. And then we

[14:57] recently developed a command manual so

[14:59] that

[15:00] benefit we have with our people is when

[15:02] they show up on the call, they just go

[15:03] to work. Most fire departments pull up

[15:05] at the emergency and stage and wait for

[15:07] an assignment from a battalion chief or

[15:10] first arriving captain, where we

[15:13] created seat assignments and actual

[15:15] manuals. And guys get off the uh

[15:18] engines and the out of the ambulances

[15:20] and they go right to work. Whether the

[15:22] town chief knows what they're doing. Not

[15:23] waiting and delaying further property

[15:26] loss or harm to life. And so, very proud

[15:29] of what the guys have

[15:31] accomplished with our manuals. Our

[15:33] critical care program, that next bullet,

[15:35] it is the only one in the state. And a

[15:37] lot of companies claim

[15:39] to have critical care programs, but

[15:43] they

[15:44] just don't. It's all title. There's 17

[15:47] different vari- varia-

[15:49] variances that we have on top of all of

[15:52] our operating medical guidelines.

[15:55] That is through a strong partnership

[15:57] with Dr. Vorup. He's our medical control

[15:59] doctor in Timpanogos.

[16:00] We run a critical care squad, which is

[16:02] two It's basically a It's a helicopter

[16:05] responding in a in a pickup truck

[16:08] with helicopter-trained paramedics. And

[16:11] so,

[16:13] we're very proud of that.

[16:15] They are the busiest

[16:17] apparatus in the city. They run Lindon,

[16:20] Vineyard, and Orem's critical

[16:23] care calls.

[16:25] Chief, it's kind of like Life Flight in

[16:27] an ambulance.

[16:29] Some of you know my history, but I flew

[16:31] for Life Flight. I was nurse manager at

[16:33] Life Flight.

[16:36] The nine years I was flying

[16:39] as a Life Flight paramedic, I was always

[16:41] so frustrated when it was a warm warm or

[16:44] a cold drug overdose, I couldn't take

[16:46] care of the patients and provide the

[16:47] level of care that I was trained to

[16:49] provide

[16:50] because it was

[16:52] a flight agency versus a municipality.

[16:54] And so, we've basically taken the whole

[16:56] flight

[16:57] curriculum and brought it to our

[17:00] paramedic program. Since then, there's

[17:03] Well, there are a couple of registered

[17:05] nurses. I mean, we have one of those

[17:06] within our organization, and it just

[17:08] gives our EMS that much more ability.

[17:13] I think one of the biggest things I'm

[17:14] the One of the

[17:16] things that talked with more than

[17:18] anybody who was just the staffing level

[17:20] of whom I had a

[17:22] fact sheet

[17:23] that is the NFPA 1710. Orem is currently

[17:26] staffing all of our stations with four

[17:30] people on a fire engine and two people

[17:32] on an ambulance.

[17:33] And so I just left a conversation with

[17:36] Vineyard that were increasing their

[17:38] staff and they have the same questions

[17:40] and concerns of

[17:42] Why can't we just bump to four and not

[17:44] go to five? And we have to go to five.

[17:46] Why the push for six?

[17:49] Because of those fixed costs

[17:51] that

[17:56] five or six

[17:58] Orem or Lindon currently staffs five of our station. My request is that

[18:03] last year a few years ago

[18:06] Lindon

[18:07] provided a fifth ambulance and we've

[18:08] been staffed with conversations which

[18:10] was huge to our operations. And then as

[18:13] we're looking to contract, when we do

[18:15] our contract, the ask is going to be to

[18:17] move to that sixth um position

[18:24] This right This fact sheet has some of

[18:25] that background. Really what it does is

[18:28] it allows us to run more than two

[18:30] apparatus out of Lindon when it's fully

[18:32] staffed. We have the option to run two

[18:33] ambulances and the fire engine.

[18:36] One board is a resource that we feel

[18:38] like is

[18:40] a fair level

[18:41] service provided to the community

[18:43] and so

[18:45] part of our partnership and relationship

[18:48] is not doing more for Orem than we'd

[18:50] ever do for Lindon and Vineyard.

[18:53] That comes with a staffing increase to

[18:54] the need and so that's the ask and

[18:57] that's the push.

[18:59] And of course we run paramedics on our

[19:01] ambulances

[19:02] and that provides just a fair level of

[19:04] the highest level outside of our

[19:06] critical care.

[19:10] all of our medical calls.

[19:14] » Next bullet point, the state of the art

[19:15] training facility. This was something

[19:17] that

[19:18] Or has been lacking forever and through

[19:22] this Marine Council and continued Marine

[19:25] Council with this

[19:28] We were just about to cut a ribbon on

[19:30] this facility. It's just about done.

[19:31] You'll all get an invite. This I

[19:33] hopefully this next month to come and

[19:35] tour this

[19:36] facility. It's It's several different

[19:38] buildings

[19:39] and it makes up every single

[19:43] configuration that the municipal

[19:45] department is garden style, mid-hall,

[19:49] multiple stories into these training

[19:52] facilities. We

[19:53] actually predicted what's currently the

[19:57] responses into landing department.

[20:00] We can go train and mimic what we're

[20:03] actually going to respond on versus a

[20:05] lot of the

[20:06] common X type structures that are not

[20:09] interchangeable. We have 16 rooms that

[20:11] we can burn to 1,800 degrees, which is

[20:15] real life fire. Um

[20:18] This training facility actually puts

[20:20] Salt Lake City and UFA's training center

[20:22] to shame. It's really amazing what we

[20:25] have here locally.

[20:27] >> What I learned being

[20:28] at Orum Fest when I was visiting with

[20:30] you guys was that they can adjust the

[20:32] temperature. He says 1,800 degrees they

[20:34] can go in and

[20:36] very specific types of fires and

[20:38] situations. So it isn't like you just go

[20:40] in and set something on fire and

[20:43] Oh, but best there's a lot of

[20:45] technology.

[20:46] >> There's a lot of thought put into this.

[20:48] So we're super excited about it.

[20:53] » I think the biggest

[20:56] most beneficial thing for our taxpayer

[20:58] constituents is just the economy of

[21:00] scale.

[21:02] Um everybody's costs in all three cities

[21:04] are reduced

[21:06] out of our ship and that's a point that

[21:10] all can speak.

[21:11] community that is benefiting. And the

[21:15] one thing we have

[21:16] Adams, we looked to bring you on

[21:19] contract.

[21:20] is

[21:23] recommend and suggest

[21:26] It's fully the board and Logan is doing

[21:27] it is checking with other cities.

[21:29] Even if they're apples to apples, what

[21:32] we provide

[21:34] because

[21:35] What type of services you could do it

[21:37] cheaper.

[21:38] It just wouldn't have the same level of

[21:39] service.

[21:40] Same quality of employee or operations

[21:43] may paramedic perspective. And so

[21:46] I

[21:48] being the best

[21:51] owning and having actual tangible

[21:54] manuals, apparatus, training facilities

[21:59] I'll put us right up there and challenge

[22:00] any department in the state, even the

[22:02] western United States

[22:04] um with our operations.

[22:06] Didn't want to say that what the

[22:07] additional benefit to this training

[22:08] facility is we spend

[22:11] 10, 20, we've spent $30,000

[22:14] several years sending guys to

[22:16] conferences.

[22:18] They are brought back and helped us

[22:19] develop these

[22:21] engine and truck and command manuals.

[22:23] We'll be able to now host these

[22:25] conferences in this training facility

[22:28] versus sending our people to it.

[22:30] We have an affiliate or affiliate with

[22:33] Fire Nuggets, which is a national

[22:34] organization that

[22:37] most

[22:38] the large conferences are put on by

[22:40] them. We'll be hosting them here. So we

[22:43] have

[22:45] revenue generating facility that will

[22:48] just increase the level of expertise of

[22:50] our people.

[22:52] Um

[22:55] The strong relationship we have with the

[22:57] PD, I I love Chief Brower. He's the

[23:00] first one to send me emails on medical

[23:03] calls, fire responses in the Lyndon. He points out the relationship with his

[23:08] officers and how our paramedic and

[23:10] firefighters work together. And so she

[23:13] thanks for always writing those

[23:15] commendations. It goes a long way with

[23:17] our guys to know that relationship is so

[23:19] strong.

[23:21] >> And then of course we're we're currently

[23:22] working through the dispatch.

[23:25] All organizations are linked

[23:27] through dispatch. And then our fire

[23:29] contract, just one more aspect there.

[23:33] We're trying to reduce costs for both

[23:35] Orem and Lyndon through dispatch

[23:37] negotiations right now.

[23:38] And there's just more power in numbers

[23:41] and so I don't want to lose that

[23:42] relationship.

[23:44] And then one of the biggest things we do

[23:45] after the range fire, which just

[23:47] happened to be my first fire in Orem as

[23:50] the chief, after finishing a 100-mile

[23:52] race, I come around the mountain on the

[23:54] Pony Express trail and saw the mountain

[23:56] on fire and

[23:57] I thought that's a bad fire. I prayed

[24:00] that it something different, but it

[24:02] wasn't. And since then we have done a

[24:06] few mitigations. We have a statewide

[24:08] recognized wildland team that works

[24:12] every year

[24:13] along the East Bench, Lyndon, Orem's

[24:15] East Bench,

[24:17] phragmites down in Vineyard. We're doing

[24:19] a ton of required work.

[24:23] We over We always exceed the small

[24:26] dollar amount mitigation what the state

[24:28] requires above and beyond just to make

[24:31] sure that all our communities are

[24:32] protected.

[24:34] So with that, do you have specific

[24:36] questions I'm happy to Did you address?

[24:39] I don't know.

[24:40] Do you have any Do you have any

[24:41] questions?

[24:46] Okay.

[24:49] » Yes, so you mentioned I feel Orem and

[24:52] Lyndon

[24:53] are a great It's kind of going to be a

[24:55] scale or trifecta, I like to call it.

[24:58] Um

[25:00] have other communities ever asked or

[25:02] would you anticipate them

[25:04] asking for you to provide services and

[25:07] would you share it or do you

[25:09] consider the area you cover now

[25:12] your ideal?

[25:13] >> Yeah.

[25:14] >> I think you should always be open to

[25:17] providing a higher level service

[25:20] communities at a reduced cost to the

[25:22] taxpayer. Or

[25:24] and I think that I mean we haven't had a

[25:26] discussion but there's lots of rumors

[25:27] right now because they just hired three

[25:30] paramedics from Pleasant Grove.

[25:33] So of course there's some talk that City

[25:36] of Pleasant Grove which there hasn't

[25:38] been any conversation about that. Um

[25:41] or numbers provided but I feel like

[25:44] contractual basis or relationship basis

[25:48] would make sense.

[25:50] I live in Pleasant Grove and I wished

[25:53] my wife would move to Lehi or because of

[25:55] level of service we get here or Lindon

[25:57] or Vineyard.

[25:58] She just can't get her to move.

[26:00] >> Right.

[26:00] >> So I'm hoping I'm hoping over the next

[26:03] few years especially make a huge

[26:06] step

[26:06] and just step up and get

[26:08] >> Pleasant Grove might

[26:10] >> Well

[26:11] >> there's been conversations. I don't know

[26:13] how

[26:14] I was just curious.

[26:15] >> Well I think the benefits we all

[26:16] recognize

[26:19] value and economy of scale

[26:22] level service.

[26:23] So

[26:24] I don't think I don't want to put words

[26:26] in your mouth Brenda but would be open

[26:28] to entertain anything that's nice.

[26:31] At least a higher level service.

[26:32] >> Not speaking for Pleasant Grove just

[26:34] saying

[26:34] >> I understand.

[26:35] >> a couple conversations about questions.

[26:39] » We just emphasize that

[26:41] whatever we do we wouldn't want any

[26:44] single city

[26:46] to be subsidized by the others or we

[26:48] feel

[26:50] perception of subsidized. So Chief said,

[26:53] um,

[26:54] "You'd have to be willing to

[26:56] want to come up to our

[26:58] service that we provide.

[27:00] And then, also we're

[27:02] not interested in in service provider

[27:05] and customer relationships. We're

[27:07] interested in partnerships.

[27:10] Chief talked about 3 years ago,

[27:13] we wanted to proactively show our desire

[27:17] for partnership.

[27:18] Uh, and level footing partnership by

[27:21] adding the names of Vineyard and Linder

[27:23] to our badge and to all of our uniforms and

[27:28] trucks and ambulances and stuff. And And

[27:30] now, it's not just for show. That's

[27:34] to true partnership.

[27:36] Have it be

[27:37] We wanted to come across genuine.

[27:40] We want to be the best together.

[27:44] » When Councilwoman

[27:45] >> Well, I was just going to just

[27:48] an example of your level of service. I

[27:50] had a friend who had a widowmaker heart

[27:54] and your guys were there in 2 minutes

[27:56] and saved his life.

[27:58] So, that's the level of service. That's

[28:00] the reward. That's the saving of the

[28:03] lives and the and the ability that these

[28:06] men have, all the training, all that

[28:08] they go through

[28:10] to be there in that moment to make that

[28:12] difference for that family. And we have

[28:14] stories, you know, people come before

[28:15] this City Council, lots of different

[28:17] experiences like that. And I am so

[28:20] amazed. You're watching the TV show,

[28:22] right? But this is real life. This is

[28:24] not a TV show. And you guys are at that

[28:26] level. So, I just wanted to kind of,

[28:29] you know, mention that and say when we

[28:31] talk about supporting our police and our

[28:33] fire and the costs, personnel costs,

[28:37] they are worth every dime, my opinion,

[28:40] because of the the lives that you save

[28:42] and the influence you have on our

[28:43] community and Vineyard.

[28:45] >> It's true.

[28:46] And

[28:48] a single

[28:49] and then that engine [clears throat] who

[28:50] have one station in

[28:52] beauty as soon as that station is out

[28:55] without an increased level of staff. You

[28:57] wouldn't need to take them all. Take

[28:59] four of six

[29:01] and leave an ambulance behind cuz

[29:03] statistically 75% of our calls are EMS.

[29:06] Makes sense to have

[29:08] ambulance readily

[29:11] and then the same level of service when

[29:13] that London station is busy. The forums

[29:16] coming in to back that a call versus

[29:19] Pleasant Grove who doesn't provide a

[29:21] critical care paramedic program same

[29:23] level

[29:24] insurance so

[29:26] each time we

[29:27] all on the same page with the levels of

[29:29] service we provide, I think it's

[29:32] wise to between wise.

[29:35] >> I think you see and appreciate

[29:38] Councilman Millett's comment cuz

[29:40] Chief and I maybe get a little bit too

[29:41] bureaucratic talking about level of

[29:43] service delivery. It really

[29:46] genuinely is about saving lives. Bring

[29:49] that

[29:51] >> We significantly reduced the property

[29:53] damage because of our response and our

[29:56] aggressive fire fighting and engine and

[29:59] truck engines. The guys just go to work.

[30:02] Every minute the size of the fire

[30:04] doubles

[30:05] and

[30:05] >> [clears throat]

[30:06] >> it doesn't take long to fully engulf an

[30:08] entire house 6

[30:10] and 12 minutes and burn the whole thing

[30:13] down and

[30:14] we are historically at least the last

[30:16] two years we're having most fires out in

[30:18] that frame is where operations. Very seldom are we

[30:24] ever on scene of a structure fire over

[30:27] 60 minutes and that's from start to

[30:28] finish clean up

[30:30] back in service.

[30:32] There's a lot of jurisdictions that

[30:34] spend hours on it.

[30:36] Single story residential fires.

[30:40] >> Which as of you once again finish this

[30:42] you know, shout out. As of your level of

[30:44] service, we are just so close to getting

[30:46] a designation that allows each of our

[30:49] property owners to get a discount on

[30:51] their insurance on their homes. We're

[30:53] just this close to getting that. So,

[30:55] >> Yeah, an ISO rating that's higher, well,

[30:58] we're actually um it's all involved. The

[31:00] lower the score, the better.

[31:02] Um

[31:03] I I always have hesitated to talk ISO

[31:05] when it comes to insurance

[31:07] because

[31:08] it could reduce your insurance. And it

[31:11] does anywhere from 6 to 12%.

[31:14] On a home or or a business.

[31:16] But it all depends on the individual

[31:18] insurance company. They all use a

[31:19] different But if we have if we secure

[31:21] the numbers, I think it's one of those

[31:23] major components. Training facility is

[31:25] another component. The locations of

[31:27] departments or of stations

[31:30] makes a difference.

[31:33] We will reduce our ISO rating

[31:35] next evaluation by at least two numbers.

[31:38] I don't know if the the value to go to a

[31:40] level one ISO rating, which is Salt Lake

[31:42] City,

[31:44] couple of them departments in the state,

[31:46] very few.

[31:47] Um

[31:48] I don't know if the dollar's worth

[31:50] getting there is worth the return on

[31:51] investment.

[31:52] Uh that's what we're reviewing right now.

[31:57] To go to a two,

[31:59] there should be no reason why we can't

[32:00] be an ISO rating two. It's really

[32:02] impressive.

[32:04] Thanks for bringing that up, Bonnie.

[32:06] >> Let me just bear in mind, council

[32:09] members, I want to express the staff

[32:10] here um my appreciation for the trust

[32:13] you have in us as Orem. As I know I know

[32:16] that you care very deeply about your

[32:18] community and you trust in the trust you

[32:21] have for Orem in Orem to help provide

[32:24] these crucial services to to your

[32:27] residents as well. And so, we're

[32:28] grateful very grateful for the

[32:30] partnership that we have with you. So,

[32:33] I just want to express my appreciation.

[32:35] If there's not anything else, um Cherry

[32:38] has arrived and so we'll go back to item

[32:41] 1.1, a discussion about dispatch

[32:43] provider overview. So, I'll turn that

[32:45] over to Adam Cowie and Cherry Orchard.

[32:49] >> You think the lead out?

[32:50] >> Yes.

[32:52] >> Um so,

[32:54] currently we are cities jointly contract

[32:57] with

[32:58] Provo City through the Metro Emergency

[33:01] Communications there in the dispatch

[33:03] center.

[33:04] Um

[33:06] and

[33:07] recently the the cities

[33:10] were

[33:11] delivered a notice of a significant

[33:13] increase in fees

[33:15] and

[33:16] so, we started looking at some

[33:18] alternative options just to see what was

[33:20] available.

[33:22] That's

[33:24] a joint

[33:26] Central 911,

[33:28] which is a a central regional provider

[33:30] of dispatch services for all of Utah and

[33:34] Juab and San Martin.

[33:36] It serves about 29 other cities.

[33:40] Um some of the things that we've got as

[33:42] we're

[33:43] through this process

[33:45] of evaluating options

[33:47] at a high level at least

[33:51] is certainly costs,

[33:53] um but also partnership

[33:55] is is a big issue.

[33:57] We've had this

[33:59] prior discussion about our partnership

[34:01] between the cities that's something that

[34:02] we're hoping for as we

[34:04] uh look at these dispatch services that we have a seat at the table

[34:09] as a voice in that in our

[34:11] interlocal

[34:12] dispatch and so,

[34:14] we have a follow-up meeting actually

[34:16] tomorrow with Provo City that we'll be

[34:18] discussing more of this with them.

[34:21] Um

[34:23] some some other issues there. Um

[34:28] It it looks like right now if we were to

[34:31] make a shift to Central,

[34:34] it didn't would save both cities

[34:36] financially. We would

[34:38] uh several hundred thousands per year.

[34:41] And so,

[34:42] uh that's a big decision that we would

[34:45] flush out further and then bring to the

[34:47] sort of final decision.

[34:50] And what's the only thing that

[34:51] >> Yeah, the only thing that I would add is

[34:53] that when uh we decided to merge with

[34:57] Provo at the time, we uh entered into an

[35:00] agreement in 2022 to become an inter to

[35:03] work toward an interlocal agreement

[35:05] where we would have equal power as a

[35:08] board and that the dispatch employees

[35:10] would would be employees of Metro

[35:13] Dispatch. Um during that time, there was

[35:16] a lot of turnover between Orem and Provo

[35:18] administrations, so that was lost in

[35:21] translation. And Provo

[35:23] uh

[35:24] you know, has said they're not

[35:25] interested in an interlocal. They can

[35:27] leave with us tomorrow and then I'll

[35:29] uh see whether or not they are more

[35:32] inclined to go in that direction, but I

[35:34] am not really confident that we will be

[35:35] moving that way. So,

[35:37] um

[35:39] not having the ability and the control

[35:42] over necessary items is is there for us.

[35:45] If we continue down this path, we are

[35:47] more of a customer of Provo rather than

[35:49] equal partners. And that is our concern.

[35:55] All right.

[35:57] can I just add one point on dispatch?

[36:00] >> Sure. Um

[36:01] >> And then Quinn.

[36:02] >> Yeah, I had the conversation with that

[36:03] and then it's regarding could Linden go

[36:06] to Central to save the money if we were

[36:08] to stay. And we're so tied in with our

[36:11] fire contract, it'll be impossible to

[36:13] dispatch the same fire department out of

[36:15] two systems. And so, feel like that's

[36:17] why this relationship is so important

[36:19] and we're all on the same page to reduce

[36:21] the overall cost for our taxpayers, but also receive the level of dispatch

[36:26] service that

[36:28] you

[36:29] think should be part of it. So, the

[36:31] relationship is strong just because of

[36:32] that need with a split of East Fork Fire

[36:36] and Lehi.

[36:39] » Um that's Adam and Carrie. I have just a

[36:42] couple of follow-up questions.

[36:44] Um one, what what's on the agenda

[36:47] meeting with Provo?

[36:49] Um and what what does a successful

[36:50] meeting look like?

[36:53] Uh two, what have they said in terms of

[36:56] justification for the significant fee

[36:59] increase? And I guess third,

[37:03] uh

[37:05] what are the implications for being

[37:07] treated like a customer rather than a

[37:08] partner? And um how does that impact us

[37:11] negatively?

[37:14] >> Three minutes starting

[37:15] >> Okay. All right. Starting with number

[37:17] one, remind [clears throat] me what that

[37:18] is.

[37:18] >> Agenda tomorrow.

[37:19] >> The agenda tomorrow. Tomorrow, it is

[37:21] just a um ad hoc meeting with the with

[37:24] the board to discuss uh we asked Provo

[37:27] to come back with any other kind of

[37:30] recommendations that they would have to

[37:31] continue the partnership.

[37:33] Um and so we're waiting to hear from

[37:35] them. They know where we stand. Uh they

[37:38] would prefer that we're just a customer.

[37:40] Uh the biggest issue we see in that is

[37:42] that

[37:43] they get to control the entire budget.

[37:46] They get to control how many channels we

[37:47] have. Right now, Mark was on the

[37:49] fire channel, and it was in their

[37:52] budgetary process, but was cut, and we

[37:54] didn't have any say

[37:55] in their budget process whether or not

[37:57] we got that extra channel. Um we don't

[38:00] get to control how much they pay their

[38:01] staff or what kind of policies they have

[38:03] in place to manage their staff. So,

[38:06] those are some of the biggest issues

[38:08] that we have. The reason why they came

[38:10] back to us with a big increase is that

[38:12] they

[38:13] uh said that they weren't charging us

[38:16] correctly for their administrative

[38:17] overhead.

[38:18] So, and Brandon, maybe you can give a

[38:21] little more insight to that, but it was

[38:23] like IT expenses, HR,

[38:26] some [clears throat]

[38:28] equipment expenses that they hadn't

[38:29] accounted for previously.

[38:32] Do you have anything to add to that,

[38:33] Brandon?

[38:33] >> I mean, it was primarily IT-related.

[38:37] » Um and at the time, sorry, and at the

[38:39] time when they brought that to us, I

[38:41] said, "This is a big, significant

[38:43] increase. Are we still moving towards an

[38:46] interlocal?" Because that was our

[38:47] understanding. And I'm okay with one

[38:50] year with an

[38:51] increase if we're still moving towards

[38:53] an interlocal because then we would have

[38:55] greater control later. And I said, "Is

[38:57] there any way that we can

[38:59] prorate this for this first year?"

[39:01] Because it was a mid-year adjustment

[39:02] that we didn't budget for. And um there

[39:05] was not really much of an interest on

[39:07] their side

[39:08] to make that

[39:12] I would say though, when we did meet in

[39:14] our last meeting,

[39:15] um

[39:16] the mayor of Provo was very, very kind,

[39:19] understood the situation that we were

[39:20] in. Neither cities wanted to disrupt any

[39:24] positive momentum we have with our

[39:26] neighboring city. Um and we we all

[39:29] understood that this was just a

[39:30] financial decision for us.

[39:34] >> So, if you move to Central, would we

[39:36] have more of an interlocal partnership?

[39:38] And say on the budget, what would that

[39:40] look like?

[39:40] >> Yes, so if we do move to Central, we

[39:45] um I was probable that we'd give them a

[39:47] response at date. So, our intent would

[39:49] be unless we can move towards an

[39:50] interlocal extended sunset date would be

[39:52] June 30th of 2027, and we would move

[39:58] And you would have a say on the budget.

[40:01] Every city that is part of Central is on

[40:05] the managing board. All the employees of

[40:07] Central

[40:10] So, but have say.

[40:13] » So, assuming this is is a just a general

[40:16] assumption, but assuming that the

[40:19] effectiveness of coverage

[40:21] uh

[40:22] timing of

[40:24] response, that all of that would still

[40:26] be at the same level that it is

[40:28] currently or possibly better

[40:31] than where we're at now.

[40:33] >> Yeah, I would I would defer to the

[40:34] chiefs. They They have more experience

[40:36] with Central.

[40:38] >> I can I can just

[40:40] I would be happy to go to

[40:42] the whole circus that we're

[40:44] anticipating.

[40:46] >> Same question.

[40:47] >> I'll just I'll just add

[40:50] there

[40:51] uh we've learned that some of the

[40:53] dispatchers that used to be Warm

[40:55] dispatchers are now at Central.

[40:58] >> Yes, nine of the dispatchers Oh, sorry,

[40:59] Brian. Nine of the dispatchers,

[41:01] including their dispatch managers,

[41:03] >> their over dispatch

[41:05] >> are former Warm ProQA dispatchers.

[41:07] >> I mean

[41:08] >> Warm.

[41:10] >> Can I just add that Central dispatch

[41:11] uses um

[41:15] ProQA, which is a

[41:17] national system, a verified system to

[41:20] dispatch medical and fire units.

[41:23] Standard questions that are utilized in

[41:26] ProQA, which is a different version of

[41:28] that that

[41:30] >> [clears throat]

[41:30] >> doesn't doesn't reach the same level of

[41:33] expectation as we had

[41:35] >> on Warm dispatchers when we had our Warm

[41:37] dispatch centers.

[41:39] >> And because it's a system that's half

[41:40] the cost

[41:41] and

[41:43] it's it's not providing the level of

[41:46] service for EMS and fire that we need.

[41:50] » Having been familiar with the 911

[41:52] centers and the EOCs around the state,

[41:55] and having affiliated with installed all

[41:57] of the EOC 911 dispatch centers

[41:59] throughout the state,

[42:00] um Central, very familiar with also

[42:03] ProQA when they went in Marion. Um

[42:05] they're probably Central's one of the

[42:07] highest

[42:08] um

[42:10] as far as what they do to maintain their

[42:13] um

[42:14] serviceability and interactions with

[42:15] their local agencies.

[42:19] They're probably a better tier above

[42:21] what we're currently getting.

[42:23] Kind of it's cheaper. I know just from

[42:25] my personal experience being in their

[42:27] dispatch centers helping our teams

[42:29] install a lot of that. I mean, anyway.

[42:32] >> I have a question.

[42:36] Oh, wait. But you were raising your

[42:37] water bottle. Okay.

[42:38] >> I'm just kidding.

[42:40] >> I'll defer to that one.

[42:42] Two questions.

[42:44] If I'm remembering when we did this,

[42:46] Provo had just opened their city hall.

[42:48] They had their new facility. Did we add

[42:51] any infrastructure to that facility?

[42:54] >> We did pay some capital costs. Brandon,

[42:57] do you remember there

[42:58] >> for the equipment.

[43:00] >> And is it

[43:01] they're recognizing that or we is the

[43:04] I thought that was part of our inner

[43:05] local. I understand you're saying that

[43:06] it didn't turn out as we had

[43:08] >> We also We did get them some equip some

[43:12] dispatch equipment as well, some

[43:14] stations.

[43:15] So we did buy into the center somewhat.

[43:20] >> Some of them.

[43:21] >> They were really unaware of the

[43:22] agreement until our

[43:24] to for the most part until our last

[43:25] meeting and so I think that they wanted

[43:28] to go back and review everything. Where

[43:30] they came back to us tomorrow.

[43:31] >> My next question is kind of a silly one,

[43:33] but it was a big deal and it was

[43:36] you know, our dispatchers that we had in

[43:38] Orem when they would call

[43:41] for whatever it was, there would be some

[43:43] service that would

[43:44] big example would be for Jeff's probably

[43:46] who was on the council back then was the

[43:48] dog issue at Nelson's Grove.

[43:50] That was a big issue for the neighbors

[43:52] in that area and we had to kind of train

[43:55] the Provo dispatch to say that two have

[43:59] a different culture, you know, to be a

[44:00] culture of service.

[44:02] See when our residents called. And

[44:05] understanding of course that our our

[44:08] animal control was that was after 5:00

[44:10] they weren't necessarily there, but then

[44:12] our police would be so happy to help if

[44:14] they weren't doing other more important

[44:16] things. But, um my question is in the

[44:19] central, do we will we have that same

[44:21] control over cultural training

[44:24] the dispatchers there?

[44:27] >> That's a great question, and that's

[44:28] something we haven't discussed with with

[44:30] uh central, so I don't want to over

[44:32] promise.

[44:33] But, I know that they were very excited

[44:35] to have us on board. Um we would be the

[44:38] biggest agency part of central, and so

[44:42] um I do think that we have some power

[44:45] being

[44:46] create that culture. And again, their

[44:48] dispatch manager is our former manager

[44:51] over dispatch here. So,

[44:53] >> He was our

[44:54] >> one ask that I would put out there cuz

[44:55] there was an incident just uh 2 3 weeks

[44:58] ago where in uh someone had called the

[45:00] dispatch about one of our sprinklers

[45:02] that was it was a weekend and it was

[45:04] watering the pavement and broken had been already going for 12 hours and

[45:09] they this was on a Friday Saturday

[45:11] night, something like that. And they

[45:13] were told to wait till Monday. And

[45:14] something like that we would really want

[45:16] passed on to our public works cuz we're

[45:18] so responsive when we know about it. So,

[45:21] I would kind of like to have those types

[45:22] of issues

[45:24] part of this agreement if we can figure

[45:26] out how to route some of those

[45:28] non-emergency issues

[45:31] um so they can be taken care of

[45:34] 24/7 or, you know, maybe not 24/7, but

[45:37] you know what I'm saying.

[45:38] Responsive.

[45:39] >> I I've added that to the list, and then

[45:41] when we go into the negotiation for our

[45:43] brief, we'll make sure that

[45:46] » I I think just to be fair to Aaron and

[45:49] Becky who work in the dispatch center,

[45:51] they're very supportive and very

[45:52] responsive. Just like B.J. and I,

[45:56] they

[45:57] work

[45:57] in the administration. And so, a lot of

[46:00] things we ask for,

[46:02] they could and would be willing to do,

[46:04] but they can't because of

[46:07] leadership. And so, it's not necessarily

[46:09] the managers of the special service

[46:11] themselves.

[46:12] It's just the the system.

[46:15] They've been They've been very happy to

[46:17] allow us to work with them.

[46:20] >> I think this I think to summarize our intent in this is seeing this as an

[46:24] opportunity for good, better, best.

[46:27] When we did dispatch in Orm, I think it

[46:30] was good. I think we've done things

[46:32] better with Provo, but we have an

[46:33] opportunity here to get

[46:35] the best, uh to have an even higher

[46:38] level of service at a less expensive

[46:41] cost.

[46:42] I think I think we have a good enough

[46:44] relationship with Provo to go about this

[46:47] in a way where it won't harm the

[46:49] relationship with them and that there

[46:51] will be other ways to partner and interact and work

[46:55] together

[46:57] as well. So, far, we're really optimistic. Um one example to Council Member Quinn

[47:05] Meekam's point uh about uh cost and how we might save. Um

[47:12] uh

[47:12] in our partnership with Linden for fire

[47:15] and EMS, we look at the difference every

[47:19] year between what we budget versus what

[47:22] our actual expenses come in.

[47:24] And and there's there's always a

[47:26] difference there, right? And we look at

[47:27] that and then we provide a credit on the

[47:30] difference the following

[47:32] Well,

[47:33] so that's the difference between

[47:34] customer and partnership, right? And

[47:38] um

[47:40] we haven't heard interest in Provo to to

[47:44] provide that same kind of level of

[47:46] partnership that uh we think Central

[47:49] would be willing to consider.

[47:53] » Do you know how many cities are on

[47:55] Central right now? I mean, and and does

[47:57] each

[47:57] >> 29 people.

[47:58] >> Does

[47:59] >> each city have one more member

[48:00] regardless of their size?

[48:02] Interesting.

[48:03] >> Yes.

[48:05] >> So, Orem would get one more member. Lehi

[48:07] would get one more

[48:08] member.

[48:10] Okay.

[48:11] >> [clears throat]

[48:12] >> Right, any other questions?

[48:15] Right. Thank you. And I will turn it

[48:17] over

[48:18] We'll go to item 1.3, our wastewater

[48:21] Excuse me, wastewater treatment facility

[48:22] upgrades and future costs. I'll turn the

[48:24] time over to

[48:26] our public utilities director, Reed

[48:27] Price.

[48:57] » Okay, to continue our

[48:59] the common theme of partnerships, uh

[49:02] we are partners in our the Orem Water

[49:05] Reclamation Facility.

[49:06] Um Orem treats

[49:09] uh 100% of Lehi's flow.

[49:12] Um we get about 9 million gallons per

[49:15] day that comes through our facility, and

[49:18] portion of that

[49:20] about 13% of it is is Lehi's.

[49:24] Um

[49:25] >> [clears throat]

[49:25] >> and uh we we produce an excellent water

[49:28] quality

[49:29] uh through our treatment process.

[49:31] Uh our flow goes through Powell's Slough

[49:33] and eventually makes its way to to Utah

[49:36] Lake.

[49:37] Uh many of you were involved [snorts] in

[49:39] the ribbon cutting that we had down

[49:41] there for the tertiary treatment plant

[49:42] where we

[49:45] remove phosphorus from the waste stream

[49:48] as directed by the

[49:50] um

[49:52] by the state of the state of Utah.

[49:56] Um the reason [clears throat] I'm here

[49:57] is to talk about our capital facilities

[49:59] plan. Uh we completed a

[50:02] uh review of all of the assets and

[50:05] equipment that we have in our water

[50:07] reclamation facility.

[50:09] Uh started uh early 2020 2021 and

[50:13] finalized it in 2022.

[50:16] Um and

[50:18] the

[50:19] reason we did that or the results of

[50:21] that, to to quote from it,

[50:24] uh

[50:25] it's very engineering speak, so um it

[50:29] these projects are driven by aging

[50:30] equipment and facilities, failure of

[50:33] older structures to meet current

[50:34] building and safety code requirements,

[50:36] inadequate process performance with

[50:38] respect to permitted effluent

[50:39] requirements, classification of

[50:41] biosolids for land application.

[50:43] So,

[50:45] uh as partners, we get to uh make sure

[50:47] that we address these in a in a timely

[50:49] fashion. Because this is a facility that

[50:51] we don't want

[50:54] uh

[50:55] This facilities plan again was uh

[50:57] completed in 2022. Orem incorporated it

[51:01] into their sewer master plan, which

[51:02] looked at the collection system

[51:05] uh in 2025.

[51:07] Uh it is a 20-year plan and it goes over

[51:10] four it's uh set of four phases. 2022

[51:14] was at $160 million. Uh

[51:16] a little Now we've looked at it closer,

[51:20] see that phase one um

[51:23] was originally expected to cost $58

[51:26] million

[51:27] and

[51:28] current estimates put it at about 88.8

[51:31] million dollars. This is largely due to

[51:34] inflationary uh

[51:36] pressures that we've experienced over

[51:38] the years. It's also some shuffling of

[51:40] projects where we bumped a phase two up

[51:42] and one down. So, it's it's not a true

[51:45] apples-to-apples comparison, however, it

[51:47] does give you good idea that yeah, these

[51:50] costs

[51:51] expensive to make the improvements that

[51:53] are needed at

[51:54] this facility.

[51:56] Phase one, this is what we're looking at

[51:58] in the next 5 years.

[52:00] Um you can see that we've got 10

[52:02] projects that are prioritized here.

[52:04] Uh and they total the construction cost

[52:08] is as uh

[52:10] the estimate is 88.8 million. We've got

[52:13] another $6.6 million in engineering fees

[52:16] uh that we will need to pay totaling

[52:18] 95.4

[52:20] million dollars in the next 5 years.

[52:23] >> Can I ask a question on that? How much

[52:25] of that is re

[52:27] is of government of the federal

[52:28] regulation?

[52:29] >> There there there's a there's a portion

[52:31] of it. If I was to guess

[52:33] uh

[52:34] I I would put it at

[52:36] 25 to 30%. Um we have an old older

[52:40] facility. Yes.

[52:42] Um and there are improvements that are that are needed.

[52:46] So, that's that's just a guess though.

[52:48] >> Thank you.

[52:49] >> It's We like to blame regulations and it

[52:53] that is a reason for many of it, but

[52:55] it's just like our cars get old point

[52:59] it needs some significant change.

[53:01] >> Thank you.

[53:02] >> So, the cost of distribution for this

[53:04] and looking at the overall cost

[53:07] including engineering,

[53:09] um contractually we have uh we have an

[53:11] agreement. Our partnership establishes a cost share. Uh Bren mentioned that at

[53:17] the end of the year we you go through a

[53:18] reconciliation of other services that we

[53:21] are partners in. We do the same thing

[53:22] here. We just split the cost to run the

[53:25] facility with you, with Lyndon, and also

[53:28] with with Vineyard. Orem's portion is

[53:30] 85.68%,

[53:32] Lyndon's 12.24, and Vineyard's 2.08. So,

[53:36] the price tag, the expected price tag

[53:38] for Orem is 81.8 million.

[53:42] Uh Lyndon will need to pay 11.7 and

[53:44] Vineyard almost 2 million of that price

[53:47] tag.

[53:49] How do we pay for that? Well,

[53:51] forum, uh, our plan is we need to

[53:55] finance it. We don't Believe it or not,

[53:56] we don't have 80 million dollars sitting

[53:58] in the bank. Um, we have been increasing

[54:00] rates slowly over the past 3 years

[54:03] uh, to to help pay for this and to help

[54:06] pay for

[54:07] a payment towards uh, financing that we

[54:11] will that we will have. So, we will be

[54:13] using a combination of financing and

[54:15] savings that we have on hand, fund

[54:17] balance, um, and savings

[54:19] based on these rate increases that we

[54:21] have uh, put in place over the past 2

[54:25] years.

[54:27] For Lyndon, you guys get to make this

[54:30] decision. As we've talked with

[54:32] uh, with Adam and Juan uh, in the past,

[54:35] uh,

[54:36] options are that you can um, you can pay

[54:39] up front.

[54:40] You did this for the tertiary treatment

[54:42] plant.

[54:43] Uh, tertiary treatment process. He said,

[54:46] "What if how much is it going to cost?"

[54:48] It was a 21 million dollars and so we

[54:50] gave you a bill for 12. Whatever that

[54:53] percentage was, 12.28%

[54:55] and that was paid paid in full.

[54:57] >> That's the water of the tertiary plant,

[54:59] the water reuse.

[55:00] >> Water reuse and phosphorus reuse.

[55:03] Um,

[55:04] and so this is a much larger price tag.

[55:07] I I doubt Adam has not said, "Oh, don't

[55:09] worry, we can cover that." So,

[55:11] um,

[55:16] » It's on the cards.

[55:17] >> I wish you would, Adam.

[55:21] » So, uh,

[55:23] another another thing that you could do

[55:24] is is to finance.

[55:27] And you could go out on your own and uh,

[55:31] get a bond and then make payments to us

[55:33] as the projects proceed.

[55:35] This is I don't think that's a very

[55:38] uh, efficient way to do things. Um Adam

[55:40] has approached us. Is there a way that

[55:42] we could just join in this bond and make

[55:44] payments to Orem and have agreed that would be acceptable um to uh just

[55:50] make payments on any financing that we

[55:53] receive. This was the model that was

[55:55] undertaken in 2012 uh when we had an

[55:58] expansion. Lyndon currently makes an

[56:01] annual payment to us to pay off uh a a a

[56:05] uh

[56:06] a a a loan that we received uh through

[56:09] the the uh through the state of Utah.

[56:12] Um

[56:14] >> Um I agree. Not only would it be

[56:16] inefficient, but Orem has had a triple

[56:20] ability to fund

[56:22] bond rating, and so

[56:24] um

[56:25] we can't get any better than that, and

[56:27] we can't get better interest rates than

[56:30] >> Good point. Uh and then the last uh So,

[56:35] we're bonding, you could pay for your

[56:37] portion of that bond. We're also paying

[56:40] with cash on hand that we have. You

[56:42] could pay us back for uh what we've

[56:45] saved. Basically, essentially have the

[56:48] Bank of Orem, where you would uh pay

[56:51] Orem back for their initial investment

[56:54] into this. So, those are those are what

[56:56] we have dreamed up. Uh the whole purpose

[56:59] of this discussion is is to make you

[57:01] aware that our wastewater treatment

[57:03] plant is aging. Uh there are federal

[57:06] regulations. We're partners, and there

[57:09] is a significant price uh significant

[57:12] price tag coming as these projects

[57:14] begin. Uh we are we have about uh 40

[57:19] million dollar 40 five uh about half of

[57:23] it already designed, ready to go. Um

[57:26] we're just waiting to pull the trigger

[57:28] on financing. Um and so this is starting

[57:34] this year.

[57:36] >> Good questions.

[57:38] So, I do. With this infrastructure,

[57:40] we're obviously building capacity for

[57:43] all of our

[57:44] projected build-out, correct?

[57:46] >> Actually, we already have the capacity that the facility needs, when you're

[57:52] speaking hydraulic hydraulically

[57:54] speaking. So, we can treat up to 15

[57:57] million gallons per day.

[57:58] Um, and we currently have received about

[58:01] nine. So, the tanks that we have, the

[58:04] processes that we have, are sized for

[58:07] build-out. But, there are other re-

[58:10] It's largely replacement and

[58:13] uh

[58:14] regulations.

[58:16] >> So, another question I have is the life

[58:18] of this infrastructure. Is it 50 years

[58:21] that you're investing in?

[58:23] >> Yeah, so,

[58:24] uh some of the um major improvements

[58:27] that we're doing

[58:29] um

[58:29] uh

[58:30] were constructed in the uh in the '80s.

[58:34] Um, we're not replacing them, we're

[58:36] re-outfitting them. So, yeah,

[58:39] most of the improvements that we're

[58:40] doing are going to be 50-year

[58:43] plus improvements.

[58:45] >> So, quick question. I noticed there's a

[58:47] you know, vineyards. Right now, you're

[58:49] basing it off of

[58:51] accounts served or are you basing it off

[58:53] of gallons coming into the system?

[58:56] >> Uh when you determine Linden's build-out

[58:58] figured

[58:58] >> My

[58:59] Adam might be

[59:02] weigh in if if you think I'm

[59:04] misspelling.

[59:05] Uh my understanding is that

[59:08] um

[59:09] that build-out conditions were

[59:11] >> I mean, there's there's a huge

[59:12] disparity. I mean, Linden's build-out is

[59:14] maybe 17,000 population. We're going to

[59:16] be there, you know, we're it's minimal.

[59:19] But, Vineyard's is exponential, but

[59:21] they're their participation in

[59:22] >> so, a point of clarification. Vineyard,

[59:24] we only treat from our 400 South and

[59:27] >> to the South. There's a small section

[59:29] >> Oh, okay.

[59:30] >> And the rest of it goes to the

[59:32] Vinoge special service.

[59:36] But really they are close to build out.

[59:38] >> In the area that you serve?

[59:40] >> Area that we serve.

[59:41] >> What did you have?

[59:42] >> Yes, I just want to add it's based on

[59:44] the capacity that the plant

[59:47] is designed for. He says it's 15

[59:49] million. Of the 15 million, Linden City

[59:52] owns

[59:54] about 1.6 million gallons.

[59:56] >> Okay, so we're

[59:57] >> So it's it's based on the flow that we

[59:59] are allocating.

[1:00:00] >> we anticipate that we'll grow into and

[1:00:03] occupy.

[1:00:04] >> Okay.

[1:00:05] >> That was helpful. That was helpful.

[1:00:07] Appreciated.

[1:00:08] >> 15 or 20 years ago, both cities jointly

[1:00:11] looked at their build out numbers and

[1:00:14] accommodated that plant, upgraded that

[1:00:16] time

[1:00:17] for those build out numbers.

[1:00:18] >> We went from 1.2 million gallons to 1.6

[1:00:21] million gallons to uh

[1:00:23] to address that

[1:00:24] issue. We'll bear with them where we're

[1:00:26] going to

[1:00:27] >> And that's part of that bond payment

[1:00:28] that being mentioned that we're we're

[1:00:30] making each year is to pay off those

[1:00:32] improvements that were made back then.

[1:00:33] [clears throat]

[1:00:35] >> Thank you.

[1:00:37] >> Just just to back up a little bit, the bank of Orem

[1:00:41] um

[1:00:42] the aspect of that we have talked about

[1:00:44] an interest rate that we apply to that

[1:00:47] similar to the PTIF. I think that's

[1:00:48] really generous offer for the Orem

[1:00:51] um

[1:00:52] to do that and

[1:00:54] So we would be paying some interest back to

[1:00:56] the city where the huge savings that

[1:00:58] you're paying for stuff up front and we

[1:01:00] realize that and so it wouldn't be a

[1:01:02] free 0% loan that but still very

[1:01:06] generous is what we

[1:01:08] >> Thank you.

[1:01:10] Anything else?

[1:01:12] All right, thank you, Reed. Appreciate

[1:01:14] the update.

[1:01:15] Uh next item 1.4 the discussion on 4000

[1:01:19] North and 1200 South Road maintenance

[1:01:23] and turned over to uh John our public

[1:01:26] services director.

[1:01:42] » Okay.

[1:01:44] Here to talk about the

[1:01:46] shared

[1:01:47] boundaries that we have up on

[1:01:49] 2000 North

[1:01:51] and 1600 South and 1600 North 6000 600

[1:01:55] South

[1:01:56] and passing around kind of a draft

[1:01:58] agreement that I was told you might have

[1:02:00] seen already.

[1:02:04] Dating back to the 80s

[1:02:07] um this is what that you have in front

[1:02:09] of you is this what we'll we'll be

[1:02:11] replacing at the end of

[1:02:13] is that that 1980 agreement and as I

[1:02:16] read through both

[1:02:17] there's very little technical

[1:02:19] information and basically what it says

[1:02:21] we'll take care of fair and maintenance

[1:02:22] and each city will be

[1:02:24] on their parts. It's pretty simple. Um

[1:02:27] going forward the boundary

[1:02:30] we share and I'll I'll do a graphical

[1:02:31] limitation of this but

[1:02:34] we have that 1000 West

[1:02:36] Lyndon Park Drive is

[1:02:39] the Lyndon section

[1:02:41] 2000 North

[1:02:43] West State Street

[1:02:45] and we'll

[1:02:46] 2000 North East of State Street and the

[1:02:48] show that this is clearly

[1:02:52] This yellow line here you see my mouse?

[1:02:56] Here's boundary

[1:02:58] and in the 80s

[1:03:00] it was established that Lyndon would

[1:03:02] maintain

[1:03:03] this section and this section up to that

[1:03:06] park

[1:03:07] drive that was was there but freeway off

[1:03:10] ramp

[1:03:11] and then Orem would take care of

[1:03:13] everything in this blue.

[1:03:15] Um then 2019

[1:03:18] both entities did a jurisdictional

[1:03:20] transfer and gave

[1:03:22] that portion to UDOT.

[1:03:24] So the section that Linden was

[1:03:26] maintaining

[1:03:27] is gone and the section that Orum was on

[1:03:30] its own

[1:03:31] is now UDOT's.

[1:03:33] So going forward

[1:03:35] the agreement shows that

[1:03:38] and I'm not privy to this and you might

[1:03:40] know this already but I was told that

[1:03:42] Linden is in the middle of

[1:03:43] reconstructing this section of roadway.

[1:03:46] Should be done by the end of the year

[1:03:48] and that's kind of one of the written in

[1:03:50] the agreement that Linden will finish

[1:03:52] that section here between State Street

[1:03:55] and this is a

[1:03:56] about 1,000 ft or so.

[1:03:59] Yeah, this is yellow is the

[1:04:00] city boundary.

[1:04:04] Going forward

[1:04:07] the plan in that document is to have

[1:04:09] Orum maintain the entire section from

[1:04:12] this new shared boundary on

[1:04:14] the other end.

[1:04:17] Comes 800 South Island Drive.

[1:04:20] And it would be a 50/50 split in those

[1:04:22] costs.

[1:04:25] We would do the standard maintenance and

[1:04:27] repair. I didn't detail them out here

[1:04:29] but in your packets sections 2.1 to 2.11

[1:04:34] it really tells about what that means.

[1:04:37] So we were debating in here

[1:04:40] so this is this is this is what we mean

[1:04:42] by

[1:04:43] standard repair and maintenance.

[1:04:45] Standard maintenance.

[1:04:49] Linden's obligation and responsibilities

[1:04:51] in verse Orum 50% of those costs.

[1:04:56] And I believe

[1:04:58] we have a

[1:05:00] major road project planned in 2000

[1:05:03] 2031 and so

[1:05:05] part of that agreement mentions

[1:05:07] if you have any utility work

[1:05:10] in that area

[1:05:11] we'll let you know ahead of

[1:05:13] time when work with you guys all the

[1:05:15] time, so we can figure that out. But

[1:05:17] before we have this major reconstruct

[1:05:19] and overlay, we want utilities to be

[1:05:23] synced.

[1:05:25] >> And

[1:05:28] » the discussion we can have items 5 to

[1:05:31] about 17 on is just a recitals. Just

[1:05:35] >> What was it? Just the legal stuff.

[1:05:37] >> Legal and finance and it's

[1:05:40] >> Here's

[1:05:41] >> late and how you pay us. So

[1:05:43] I didn't go through all of those deep

[1:05:44] detail here. You guys understand and

[1:05:45] some of you might have seen them

[1:05:46] already.

[1:05:47] For the questions.

[1:05:49] >> Just emphasize this is a draft for us.

[1:05:53] >> So this is a draft that I sent

[1:05:55] probably this back to Chris and Chris

[1:05:58] isn't here today and

[1:05:59] so Um we have a we have a pending

[1:06:04] working some details out, so

[1:06:06] >> He sent it to me last Friday, so I don't

[1:06:08] know how recent the changes in there,

[1:06:10] but

[1:06:11] >> I I think we sent those a week and a

[1:06:13] half or two weeks ago.

[1:06:14] >> A couple weeks ago. Maybe they're in

[1:06:15] there, maybe they're not, but

[1:06:17] Any questions?

[1:06:18] >> No, I just wanted to say that we're

[1:06:21] sending comments to to Chris and

[1:06:24] trying to schedule another meeting with

[1:06:27] sit down.

[1:06:30] » And I think some of the areas that we

[1:06:33] talked a little bit about, I believe

[1:06:35] very improbable. All soft costs about

[1:06:38] staff.

[1:06:39] We're all in agreement with the wording

[1:06:40] because our staff can we design

[1:06:43] We don't pay out for designing.

[1:06:46] So we don't know how that will get

[1:06:47] reimbursed. That's I don't think that's

[1:06:48] really the main thing.

[1:06:50] portion of it. For the soft cost element

[1:06:52] of staff's time to split that we

[1:06:54] haven't.

[1:06:55] >> Okay. We'll keep going.

[1:06:58] >> Yes.

[1:07:02] » More questions?

[1:07:04] >> You know, gone.

[1:07:05] >> It's a draft.

[1:07:06] >> I think we cleaned up well bringing in

[1:07:08] the temple.

[1:07:10] So, there might be extra if he wants

[1:07:12] some

[1:07:13] if you guys end up with extra.

[1:07:15] >> Six or eight years.

[1:07:23] » [laughter]

[1:07:25] >> I don't know that.

[1:07:27] Saying

[1:07:30] I want to be on the other side. I

[1:07:31] appreciate that.

[1:07:33] I'm 50. All right, our next item is a

[1:07:35] discussion of a Linden Hall Drainage

[1:07:36] Agreement and joint maintenance of

[1:07:38] waterway and wetlands. So, I'll turn

[1:07:40] over to Juan.

[1:07:44] » Thank you, Mayor.

[1:07:48] I'm just going to bring a uh

[1:07:50] visual of what we're

[1:07:52] talking about.

[1:07:58] This is this section right here.

[1:08:05] Okay, so um

[1:08:07] I'm Juan Garrido, Public Works Director.

[1:08:09] I've been working on this uh project

[1:08:11] with Mayor Lundberg. Uh was very uh very

[1:08:15] helpful in finding us a ARPA

[1:08:18] grant

[1:08:20] uh

[1:08:21] in 2021-2022 era.

[1:08:23] And uh it was related to uh the Utah

[1:08:26] Lake Water Quality uh pro- program. So,

[1:08:31] what we have is right here on this

[1:08:34] line, uh this is where we collect a lot

[1:08:37] of the effluent uh not effluent, but uh

[1:08:40] stormwater runoff from uh Orem, Pleasant

[1:08:43] Grove, and Linden. Uh there's a inner

[1:08:46] local agreement where uh Orem is

[1:08:49] responsible for about 51% of the flow.

[1:08:52] Uh Pleasant Grove, through one of the

[1:08:55] drainages that comes right through the

[1:08:56] middle of uh Linden, is responsible for

[1:08:59] about 17%,

[1:09:01] and then Linden is pretty much

[1:09:03] responsible for the remainder.

[1:09:06] Uh

[1:09:06] the

[1:09:08] city limits for Orem don't quite go into this area.

[1:09:13] And neither does a Pleasant Grove. So,

[1:09:15] Lindon is pretty much has taken the lead

[1:09:18] on maintaining the channel, overseeing

[1:09:20] the flows, and we kind of get

[1:09:23] tasked with water quality.

[1:09:26] Uh there was a study made in the '90s or

[1:09:29] late or late '90s or early 2000s where

[1:09:32] the

[1:09:33] um they were studying the water quality

[1:09:35] of Utah Lake.

[1:09:37] And they put out quite a few sensors or

[1:09:39] a few uh

[1:09:40] gauges through here, and there was a

[1:09:43] high E. coli, hard turbidity.

[1:09:46] Uh that was some of the main the main

[1:09:49] factors.

[1:09:50] With this ARPA

[1:09:52] uh grant, we um

[1:09:55] we are looking at rebuilding the

[1:09:57] channel.

[1:09:59] Here is [clears throat] been eroding as

[1:10:01] well as the water travels too fast as

[1:10:04] there's not enough time for sediments to

[1:10:06] drop.

[1:10:08] The existing or the base flow capacity

[1:10:11] of this uh

[1:10:13] of this channel, it's about 3 to 5 cfs.

[1:10:16] But when we have a pretty big storm, it

[1:10:18] does swells up to 200 plus cfs.

[1:10:22] Uh it's been causing some erosion.

[1:10:25] It's kind of been

[1:10:27] neglected for a little bit.

[1:10:29] So, as where we have our heritage trail

[1:10:31] going also through there, we're also

[1:10:33] trying to not only improve water

[1:10:35] quality, but also do um beautification

[1:10:38] of the area so it's more attractive to people going by there. Um the

[1:10:43] original grant

[1:10:45] that we got from the state was about

[1:10:47] $700,000

[1:10:49] with a 20% match. So, that made it that

[1:10:52] the city

[1:10:53] will have to come up with about 200 and

[1:10:56] some thousand to to 20% match.

[1:10:59] Then of that,

[1:11:01] Orem will [clears throat] pay the 51%

[1:11:04] Pleasant Grove the 17 and Linden the

[1:11:06] remainder. I have been in contact with

[1:11:09] Chris Sherry in that regard to to make

[1:11:12] sure he's budgeting

[1:11:14] ahead of time and uh

[1:11:17] handling that that way. Recently, we had

[1:11:20] some visitors from the state coming to

[1:11:22] check on the program. They were pretty

[1:11:24] I don't know happy with what they saw

[1:11:26] and they added an additional

[1:11:29] $300,000 to this thing.

[1:11:32] $300,000 to

[1:11:34] projects so we can actually

[1:11:36] try to finish clear from Geneva Road to

[1:11:39] the bridge that crosses into the

[1:11:40] wetlands and

[1:11:42] then we'll work on a inner local part of

[1:11:44] the inner local agreement how to do

[1:11:47] better maintenance of the noxious weeds

[1:11:49] and

[1:11:50] a few other things that require

[1:11:52] attention. Then eventually, we will keep

[1:11:57] even though they're local, so that place

[1:11:59] doesn't fall in disrepair again. We'll

[1:12:00] just keep it on a

[1:12:02] on an annual basis of spraying which

[1:12:05] we can take care of.

[1:12:07] The cleaning debris and and all of

[1:12:09] those.

[1:12:12] Any questions?

[1:12:13] >> For the benefit of

[1:12:14] Orem

[1:12:15] Council,

[1:12:18] you you all noticed as we were going

[1:12:20] through our budgeting process there was

[1:12:22] a little bit higher uh of an increase

[1:12:25] percentage wise in our storm drain

[1:12:28] and some of our other utilities and so

[1:12:30] uh it was in part in anticipation of you

[1:12:33] know some of these types of increasing

[1:12:35] costs.

[1:12:37] >> But in in obtaining that now cumulative

[1:12:40] 1 million in in funding,

[1:12:42] that's always going to offset all of our

[1:12:44] costs.

[1:12:45] And the thing that's really wonderful is

[1:12:47] if you do go down the trail once it's

[1:12:49] complete, part of

[1:12:52] why we were awarded the funding was

[1:12:53] because we're trying to do these what

[1:12:55] fancy word is riparian

[1:12:57] uh

[1:12:58] reconstructions so for the water

[1:13:00] the animals, the fish

[1:13:03] and there's some great fishing along

[1:13:05] this canal right away that people

[1:13:07] will be able to do and so it's it's

[1:13:09] going to be very beautiful, very

[1:13:10] beautiful walkway.

[1:13:12] >> Let me ask you a question along those

[1:13:14] lines. I did not know there was a trail

[1:13:16] there. So, where does that trail go to?

[1:13:18] Where does that lead?

[1:13:20] >> Goes all the way to the lake.

[1:13:22] >> To our Lincoln

[1:13:24] >> Lincoln Marina

[1:13:26] >> It goes all the way past the Temple to the foothills. So, it's it's

[1:13:30] >> So, it connects connects the Murdock

[1:13:32] Canal and then comes through all of the

[1:13:34] central part of Linden.

[1:13:36] >> Right.

[1:13:36] >> So, it's the first lake to network to

[1:13:38] trail

[1:13:40] in the

[1:13:41] valley.

[1:13:41] >> I was just trying to figure out how to

[1:13:42] ride my bike to American Fork.

[1:13:46] You just answered that question.

[1:13:48] >> You can see this trail goes here all the

[1:13:50] way to 12 1200 East to the foothill.

[1:13:54] Then it just kind of goes

[1:13:56] Lincoln and Jacob's going to give you a

[1:13:58] tour of that.

[1:13:59] >> [laughter]

[1:14:00] >> the east side

[1:14:01] >> So, it does connect to the Murdock trail

[1:14:03] right here.

[1:14:04] And then it keeps going

[1:14:06] south and then

[1:14:08] comes out to this cul-de-sac and then it

[1:14:11] follows Center Street.

[1:14:13] >> Perfect.

[1:14:13] >> And from Center Street all the way to

[1:14:17] 400 no, to Geneva Road.

[1:14:20] Goes underneath the

[1:14:22] State Street here through a tunnel.

[1:14:25] >> Oh, I can't see the

[1:14:26] >> It goes through the north entrance.

[1:14:28] >> It's all right.

[1:14:29] >> Goes through the City Center Park.

[1:14:30] >> Yeah.

[1:14:31] >> Through City Center Park. Anyways, they

[1:14:34] were able to mitigate the erosion that

[1:14:36] occurred from the high flow and heavy

[1:14:39] rains and waters.

[1:14:40] The permanent solution to that by

[1:14:42] >> Yes, we will be what's happening is it's

[1:14:45] so steep that the velocities are just

[1:14:47] So we're going to raise the bottom of

[1:14:49] the of the channel. Then we're going to

[1:14:52] cut back the top of it and then we're

[1:14:54] going to lay it back so it's not

[1:14:55] actually a

[1:14:56] canyon. It's going to be people can can

[1:14:59] get in there and fish and

[1:15:03] » You said normal flow is like 3 CFS? And

[1:15:06] then how [clears throat] high does it

[1:15:07] get when it's under

[1:15:07] >> Up to 200 CFS.

[1:15:10] Yeah.

[1:15:10] >> 3 to 200.

[1:15:11] >> Yeah, that's why now we're going to cut

[1:15:14] >> Just be making great brands the marina

[1:15:16] to the Lyndon and Orem marina.

[1:15:22] » [laughter]

[1:15:25] » Just wanted to annex part of Orem.

[1:15:31] » [clears throat]

[1:15:32] >> Yes, can you go back to just the the

[1:15:34] first map you showed if we can find it?

[1:15:36] I I'm just trying to understand

[1:15:39] where the water ends up.

[1:15:41] Um it looks like

[1:15:42] I can't tell what that is. Is that

[1:15:44] >> Is that a green area?

[1:15:46] >> Yeah, so this is a wetland.

[1:15:47] >> It's a wetland

[1:15:49] that [clears throat] is always wet?

[1:15:52] >> Yes.

[1:15:53] >> And then it there's a there's an egress

[1:15:55] that goes out to the lake as well.

[1:15:57] >> Yes, so it gets comes into this wetland

[1:15:59] area. It then leaves on a small channel.

[1:16:02] Uh we have our our trail going right

[1:16:05] next to it.

[1:16:06] This point it crosses Pioneer Lane right

[1:16:08] behind the power plant.

[1:16:11] And then our trail now continues

[1:16:15] this way and then it crosses right here

[1:16:17] and then it goes to the marina. The

[1:16:18] water continues up

[1:16:20] this way through the other wetlands by

[1:16:21] the power plant. This is uh

[1:16:24] 2000 West

[1:16:26] 200 South and then it crosses

[1:16:29] >> So does it cross there?

[1:16:29] >> All right, through here and it goes

[1:16:31] right south of the transfer station.

[1:16:33] >> Have you ever been to the solid waste

[1:16:35] the

[1:16:36] Do you know that wetlands?

[1:16:37] >> You see that little channel? That is it.

[1:16:39] >> Now are those wetlands big enough they

[1:16:41] attract wildlife?

[1:16:43] >> Some.

[1:16:45] So

[1:16:47] >> Beavers for sure.

[1:16:48] >> Yeah, you may not be aware that Orem jointly owns this wetland area with

[1:16:52] Lindon and and Pleasant Grove based on

[1:16:54] the percentages that's in our agreement.

[1:16:56] So So that was purchased a number of

[1:16:58] years ago

[1:17:00] when Anderson Geneva was developing.

[1:17:03] They were interested in filling that

[1:17:05] entire thing and just leaving the

[1:17:06] channel.

[1:17:07] And because of such

[1:17:10] the the amount [snorts] of storm water

[1:17:11] that comes through there, this is a

[1:17:12] natural detention basin.

[1:17:14] And that's really benefiting our city

[1:17:16] sand. So we jointly purchased that land

[1:17:20] and so that is public open space.

[1:17:22] [clears throat]

[1:17:22] It was actually put under a conservation

[1:17:24] easement at that same time. And so it

[1:17:27] cannot be developed in the future.

[1:17:30] So you are a joint owner in that land.

[1:17:35] » Any other questions? Tucked away in the

[1:17:37] middle of industrial

[1:17:39] operations, so it's

[1:17:41] Anyway, I'm just going to ask it

[1:17:43] navigation. So if I'm riding my bike

[1:17:46] and I'm going past the wetlands, where

[1:17:48] do I join back in? Across the street

[1:17:49] there. See that Trinity Express? Do I go

[1:17:52] through their parking lot?

[1:17:53] >> So you come right

[1:17:56] to this point.

[1:17:58] Then there is a new trail that connects

[1:18:01] right along this fence.

[1:18:03] >> Okay, so I'll see it.

[1:18:04] >> And then where do I connect at Geneva

[1:18:05] Road? I I saw it on the on the west

[1:18:07] side, but where

[1:18:09] space we've got to

[1:18:11] >> Just west of the the rail line, there's

[1:18:13] a dedicated trail.

[1:18:15] >> Oh, okay. I see it. Yeah.

[1:18:17] >> So it goes So it goes north right here

[1:18:19] at Center Street.

[1:18:21] Not Center Street. It's 100 South.

[1:18:24] It crosses from

[1:18:26] here to here.

[1:18:27] >> Yeah.

[1:18:28] >> Okay.

[1:18:28] >> That's nice.

[1:18:29] >> That's 6-ft wide asphalt when it's in

[1:18:31] >> Okay.

[1:18:33] >> It's kind of a glorified sidewalks in

[1:18:35] some parts of Lindon. It is a agents.

[1:18:38] >> Millions of jobs to

[1:18:39] >> That's awesome.

[1:18:39] >> Okay,

[1:18:40] I know what I'm going to be doing.

[1:18:43] >> [laughter]

[1:18:44] >> It's wonderful. Should be

[1:18:49] » All right, thank you.

[1:18:51] Appreciate it. Our next item on our

[1:18:53] agenda is 1.6 discussion legislative

[1:18:56] interests in common between the cities

[1:18:58] and so I'm going to turn it over to Adam

[1:18:59] and Bren.

[1:19:02] >> Yeah, um

[1:19:04] uh

[1:19:06] many of you have at least some good

[1:19:08] awareness of

[1:19:10] uh interacting with the Utah League of

[1:19:11] Cities and Towns and their regular uh

[1:19:14] legislative policy committee meetings.

[1:19:16] And so you get maybe broader and and uh

[1:19:21] additional subjects that we as cities

[1:19:23] can kind of team up with legislatively

[1:19:25] in in our

[1:19:27] lobbying and relationship building

[1:19:29] efforts with with state legislators.

[1:19:32] Um so

[1:19:33] I think of particular interest to to

[1:19:37] Lehi and Orem over the next year or so,

[1:19:41] I think we'll we'll want to team up with

[1:19:43] and and stay in communication as it

[1:19:46] relates to protecting our water sourcing

[1:19:50] uh rights and decision-making and and

[1:19:52] control.

[1:19:54] And then uh

[1:19:55] another item uh that we're becoming

[1:19:58] increasingly interested in

[1:20:01] and love to hear uh any thoughts uh on

[1:20:04] this in particular is

[1:20:06] in relation to e-bike and e-scooter

[1:20:09] regulations.

[1:20:10] Obviously, the state started to to

[1:20:12] provide some guardrails so to speak, um

[1:20:15] but I think it's a it's a growing

[1:20:17] concern and and we're trying to grapple

[1:20:20] with. On the one hand, it's good to get

[1:20:22] our our kids out and out of uh away from

[1:20:25] their screens. On the other hand, some

[1:20:27] of these uh e-bikes can go quite quick.

[1:20:31] And [clears throat] and so we have um in

[1:20:34] recent months gotten on a committee with

[1:20:37] the county to uh look at how we uh

[1:20:41] cities can can regulate. Um

[1:20:45] we're especially where we have um

[1:20:48] bordering and connecting trails and more

[1:20:50] particularly the Murdock Canal Trail. We

[1:20:53] want to make sure that whatever

[1:20:55] regulations and enforcement we start

[1:20:57] doing

[1:20:59] that we're that we're not um on an

[1:21:02] island uh and and doing something

[1:21:05] different than you guys and the other

[1:21:07] cities to the north.

[1:21:09] Um so anyway, that that's something that

[1:21:12] uh

[1:21:13] you know, of course our our respective

[1:21:15] staffs will want to communicate on and work [clears throat] on and and if

[1:21:19] you're not on that Utah County

[1:21:21] committee, then you know, we can pass

[1:21:24] along some that information as well, but

[1:21:27] um yeah.

[1:21:29] Anything else on your mind?

[1:21:31] >> is really uh focuses in in my mind on

[1:21:34] just local control and things that the

[1:21:37] state is continually looking at at

[1:21:39] pulling away from cities.

[1:21:41] Property tax, we're expecting

[1:21:43] legislation that's going to continue

[1:21:44] tightening the ability of cities to use

[1:21:46] property taxes as a financing mechanism.

[1:21:49] And so that's a big issue that

[1:21:51] uh we would encourage you as as elected

[1:21:53] officials to talk to your our

[1:21:55] legislators.

[1:21:57] Uh try to protect that local control. Um

[1:22:00] land use and housing are the other big

[1:22:03] things that we're seeing a lot of

[1:22:04] pressure from the state to make changes

[1:22:06] locally and some of that's been forced

[1:22:08] upon us and so

[1:22:10] maintaining that local control is is a

[1:22:12] big concern.

[1:22:14] Um they have helped recently with with

[1:22:16] transportation funding where the

[1:22:18] legislature approved the TUFF, it's the

[1:22:21] transportation utility fee

[1:22:23] option for cities to look at as a

[1:22:25] possible funding funding mechanism.

[1:22:28] of

[1:22:28] stream

[1:22:30] so that's been really positive thing.

[1:22:33] And I

[1:22:34] Yeah, local control on issues.

[1:22:37] >> One size misfits all.

[1:22:40] That's the same.

[1:22:44] » All right, thank you. Anything else?

[1:22:47] All right. Our final item

[1:22:50] in this section is North Union

[1:22:52] Irrigation Company dissolution.

[1:22:55] And possible canal trail solution and

[1:22:57] urban war and carry.

[1:23:02] » I want to invite Reed because he's also

[1:23:04] the chair

[1:23:05] >> Oh, and Reed, okay.

[1:23:06] >> and vice chair of the

[1:23:09] North [laughter] Union and Provo Bay

[1:23:12] I take a different hat

[1:23:13] a different one on for this.

[1:23:20] That's it's coming.

[1:23:24] So

[1:23:27] As you all will

[1:23:29] There you go, you have a presentation.

[1:23:31] >> He has a small

[1:23:34] >> [laughter]

[1:23:36] » Sit down there.

[1:23:38] Just waiting this.

[1:23:43] Uh

[1:23:44] North Union Canal Provo Bench North

[1:23:46] Union Canal Uh here's just a big

[1:23:49] overview

[1:23:51] so that you're familiar with it.

[1:23:54] The red ends up going up into

[1:23:58] Oh, Pleasant Grove almost American Fork.

[1:24:01] Um that's the length of it and Reed can

[1:24:04] talk a little bit about here in a minute

[1:24:07] the uh plans of the canal company where

[1:24:10] they're at

[1:24:11] and frankly abandoning delivering water.

[1:24:15] Uh and we can talk a little bit about

[1:24:18] what that means practically for the

[1:24:20] canal

[1:24:22] and some of the unique things that that

[1:24:24] the state law

[1:24:27] the position it puts us in. And

[1:24:31] Orem,

[1:24:32] we're looking at the canal

[1:24:36] as a possible utility corridor trail

[1:24:40] corridor.

[1:24:41] And we

[1:24:43] looking at an area

[1:24:46] you can see there it comes from about

[1:24:48] 200 South

[1:24:51] on Palisade and it comes up to the

[1:24:53] border on 2000 North with Linden. And

[1:24:58] you can see on the southern end you can

[1:25:01] see how broad that canal can be in some

[1:25:04] areas and then as you get farther north

[1:25:07] it really

[1:25:09] gets more narrow. And we are in the

[1:25:12] process

[1:25:15] we've gone out for request for

[1:25:18] proposals. We've had two back

[1:25:20] methods [clears throat]

[1:25:22] and Landmark have come in with

[1:25:26] bids and we'll be reviewing those next

[1:25:29] week. What we are doing is hiring a

[1:25:32] consultant to help us do a couple of

[1:25:35] major things. One

[1:25:37] being

[1:25:39] public outreach. As you can imagine this

[1:25:42] canal

[1:25:44] passes by a lot of people and

[1:25:48] to give you an example here in Orem it's

[1:25:51] a little over 5 miles and it goes

[1:25:55] through a lot of residential zones and

[1:25:57] these residential zones are our

[1:25:59] 8,000 square foot lot 7,000.5

[1:26:03] and it basically in that area within

[1:26:06] walking distance of the canal is over

[1:26:08] 14,000 people. And it goes the canal

[1:26:12] goes by schools,

[1:26:15] parks, churches uh

[1:26:18] all along there. So,

[1:26:21] you can see a lot of people are very

[1:26:24] interested. So, back to the RFPs that

[1:26:27] we're looking at, two main things. One,

[1:26:30] kind of public outreach along the canal

[1:26:33] corridor to

[1:26:35] uh

[1:26:36] gauge people's interest in the canal and

[1:26:39] what happens with it. I I get a lot of

[1:26:42] phone calls on this.

[1:26:44] And the mayor,

[1:26:46] she forwards me lots of emails

[1:26:49] >> [laughter]

[1:26:51] >> that we're already getting. And And I'll

[1:26:53] tell you they range from everything from

[1:26:57] on one side, people saying, uh

[1:27:00] I want the property in my yard. I don't

[1:27:03] want anything that the city has anywhere

[1:27:07] near it. Uh we've had people out quick

[1:27:09] claiming to themselves

[1:27:12] uh canal property

[1:27:13] uh behind their houses, and in a case or

[1:27:16] two, behind their neighbor's house.

[1:27:19] And And all the way to people saying, I

[1:27:22] live on the canal. I would love this to

[1:27:25] be a trail.

[1:27:26] And so, uh and we hear everything in

[1:27:29] between. And then I have some people

[1:27:31] saying, I don't really want the canal,

[1:27:34] but I know my neighbor is throwing all

[1:27:36] their yard waste into it. And we've got

[1:27:40] kids back there playing, and it's a

[1:27:41] corridor for

[1:27:43] uh crime, and all of those things. So, it really

[1:27:48] ranges all over the place. So, number

[1:27:50] one is to kind of gauge community input.

[1:27:53] And number two is to analyze this as a

[1:27:56] utility corridor. We currently do have

[1:27:59] storm water that gets put into the

[1:28:02] canal.

[1:28:03] Um we are working on

[1:28:06] uh some plans, and I think uh

[1:28:08] we talked earlier about uh

[1:28:10] we we basically have our own engineering

[1:28:12] firm in house. And we have been working

[1:28:16] on getting some of our storm water out,

[1:28:19] but we want to look at, well, what if we

[1:28:21] keep storm water in, but what about

[1:28:24] other utilities?

[1:28:25] We have, as you can see through Orem,

[1:28:28] this major corridor

[1:28:30] that could be used for utilities,

[1:28:34] um, as it goes through the community.

[1:28:36] So, we want to analyze those types of

[1:28:39] things. We've even talked about, uh,

[1:28:41] Shell Aqua for recharge system and and

[1:28:45] if that could be helpful to us or not.

[1:28:47] So, that's kind of where we stand with

[1:28:49] this and Reed, if you want to

[1:28:52] >> Sure.

[1:28:53] >> jump in about the company.

[1:28:55] >> Yeah, so the company, as I

[1:28:57] presume all of you are aware that the

[1:28:59] Provo Bench Canal and Irrigation

[1:29:01] Company, which goes from the mouth of

[1:29:03] the canyon down, circles around this

[1:29:06] about 400 South in Orem, back to the

[1:29:09] north, terminating

[1:29:11] kind of terminating the end of that

[1:29:12] company,

[1:29:13] uh,

[1:29:14] the the end of the canal that the Provo

[1:29:16] Bench Canal Company,

[1:29:18] um, operated is at 800 North and the

[1:29:20] canal just continues. It switches

[1:29:22] companies to the North Union Canal,

[1:29:24] uh, company. Uh, it uh, elected back in

[1:29:28] November of last year to, stop delivering water.

[1:29:33] Um, the

[1:29:36] Orem is a was a major shareholder, the

[1:29:38] major shareholder in the Provo Bench

[1:29:40] company. Lyndon was the major

[1:29:42] shareholder in North Union. We also

[1:29:43] owned shares,

[1:29:45] um, but, uh, because Lyndon

[1:29:50] will be

[1:29:51] taking their water out of the Provo, uh,

[1:29:54] the, uh,

[1:29:55] the Provo Provo River Provo River Act,

[1:29:59] thank you. The Provo River Aqueduct,

[1:30:01] they don't need the canal. Orem has

[1:30:03] never put water in the canal, but we've

[1:30:04] always paid our assessments as part of

[1:30:06] that that part of that company.

[1:30:09] Um so because Lyndon was pulling it out

[1:30:11] of the more efficient Provo River

[1:30:13] Aqueduct, uh the volume of water didn't

[1:30:16] exist. It could not operate as a canal

[1:30:18] with the few

[1:30:20] um shareholders that would that

[1:30:22] remained. So, we felt

[1:30:25] as a company, we felt that it was best

[1:30:27] to just disband

[1:30:29] and uh

[1:30:30] give everybody their

[1:30:32] give give everyone the opportunity to

[1:30:34] either sell her

[1:30:36] interest in the company or retain that

[1:30:38] in the form of water rights. Uh and that

[1:30:40] process is close to being finalized. We

[1:30:43] hope to have that done

[1:30:45] uh this week. In fact, I

[1:30:47] even our calendar, we noticed that we

[1:30:49] have a a meeting tomorrow morning with

[1:30:51] the company's attorney,

[1:30:53] um who will

[1:30:54] direct hopefully direct us to go ahead

[1:30:57] and

[1:30:59] process the paperwork and convey all the

[1:31:01] water rights to that. That said,

[1:31:04] the company is close to needing to make

[1:31:06] a decision of when to abandon its

[1:31:08] prescriptive easement that it has.

[1:31:10] Right now, the only reason that people

[1:31:12] haven't gobbled up land is because the

[1:31:14] company

[1:31:16] still asserts that it has the right to

[1:31:18] use this as to convey us water.

[1:31:22] But it's not doing that. So,

[1:31:24] the time is coming soon. That's why

[1:31:26] Orem's going through this process to

[1:31:27] determine what can be done, how can we

[1:31:29] use this as an amenity

[1:31:31] that's a little beyond the intention of what what it's been used for

[1:31:37] past

[1:31:38] 100-plus years.

[1:31:41] Uh so,

[1:31:42] um

[1:31:43] uh

[1:31:44] From the company's perspective,

[1:31:47] and we

[1:31:49] one and I as the as the president and

[1:31:51] vice president, we can control how

[1:31:53] quickly this happens in working with our

[1:31:55] attorney, but he will be advising us on

[1:31:58] what

[1:31:59] the company should do. Because as long

[1:32:01] as we hold that, we're still liable for

[1:32:03] things that happen in that canal.

[1:32:06] Uh

[1:32:07] as a company, we're not really

[1:32:08] interested uh in taking on that

[1:32:11] liability. So, hopefully we can come to

[1:32:13] a

[1:32:14] solution soon. Um

[1:32:16] it will be a uh quite the effort, I

[1:32:19] believe, as we reach out to the public

[1:32:20] to see

[1:32:22] to gauge the interest and and

[1:32:25] what how how we could use this

[1:32:26] differently.

[1:32:27] Um so, anyway,

[1:32:31] my company is gone.

[1:32:34] Just informing both city councils that

[1:32:36] decisions need to be made relatively

[1:32:38] quickly. We anticipate the full closure

[1:32:41] of the company soon, and with that full

[1:32:44] closure comes an abandonment of that uh

[1:32:47] prescriptive easement

[1:32:49] fish I think it takes 90 days or

[1:32:51] something after we do that where the

[1:32:52] company just walks away,

[1:32:55] has no more responsibility for that

[1:32:57] corridor, and [snorts] the legal battle

[1:33:01] begins to determine who gets to continue

[1:33:04] to use it.

[1:33:05] >> Can a new company be created with

[1:33:10] the idea that this is for the storm

[1:33:11] water

[1:33:12] and so on

[1:33:14] >> So, yeah.

[1:33:15] >> to retain that prescriptive ease

[1:33:18] easement?

[1:33:18] >> This this gets into

[1:33:20] the legal arguments that I I know Steve,

[1:33:23] you've been looking at it, but I I don't

[1:33:28] I can't speak um

[1:33:32] authoritatively.

[1:33:33] >> But, it's a great question. Let's make

[1:33:35] sure that we can get our respective

[1:33:38] uh city attorneys and staff to to share

[1:33:41] notes and

[1:33:42] see how we can approach it.

[1:33:44] >> And are you balancing the official

[1:33:46] dissolution

[1:33:47] to give us time

[1:33:49] >> That's because we sit we are the

[1:33:51] president and vice president,

[1:33:53] uh we have directed our attorney to

[1:33:57] we're not going to jump right in and and

[1:33:59] do this. We do have time, but we

[1:34:03] at the company, we are all

[1:34:05] Linden and Orem are still liable for

[1:34:08] that canal because we are the major

[1:34:10] shareholders

[1:34:12] of both of them.

[1:34:13] >> So, is it consistent that many of the

[1:34:17] adjacent property owners, they show this

[1:34:20] canal on their plat map as part of their

[1:34:22] parcel or there's some sections where

[1:34:24] it's wholly

[1:34:25] the company's

[1:34:26] >> Company owns nothing.

[1:34:28] So, yes. There are there are areas of no man's land where the parcels don't

[1:34:34] really match up on the any parcel map.

[1:34:37] And that's up for

[1:34:39] >> can stake a claim.

[1:34:40] >> The company does not assert that it owns

[1:34:43] any property. So, it

[1:34:46] >> We're researching.

[1:34:49] >> Okay.

[1:34:49] >> But but our board members is also

[1:34:51] Central Utah

[1:34:53] uh water and they have already expressed

[1:34:56] to our attorney to keep the easement for water

[1:35:01] for a possible for recharge where it

[1:35:05] from the Provo River and then their

[1:35:08] office is right adjacent to it. So,

[1:35:10] they're looking at claiming that

[1:35:13] part of the easement for that purpose,

[1:35:15] which is still water conveyance.

[1:35:17] And that's where they have a

[1:35:20] part of that the gray area to to that

[1:35:23] >> So, the purpose going back to what Gary

[1:35:25] was talking the purpose of this study is

[1:35:27] to look at what are all the claims

[1:35:30] including ours as respective cities and

[1:35:33] adjacent property owners and then

[1:35:35] compare and contrast those claims and

[1:35:37] the strength of them and also the timing

[1:35:39] of them.

[1:35:40] Cuz

[1:35:42] I would submit to you all that, you

[1:35:44] know, this is a corridor

[1:35:47] that is more opportunity than than

[1:35:50] challenge. And once it's gone, it's

[1:35:52] gone. So, now's our time to to look at

[1:35:54] it and look at it from all

[1:35:56] angles. Uh so, uses and uh the

[1:36:00] legalities and and let's let's try to

[1:36:03] work together to to find out the best

[1:36:06] use of it.

[1:36:10] And uh

[1:36:11] if the president and vice president of

[1:36:14] the canal company could be sure to

[1:36:15] communicate with our public utilities

[1:36:17] director and Lincoln

[1:36:19] >> [laughter]

[1:36:22] » Sometimes sometimes that's a challenge.

[1:36:26] » [laughter]

[1:36:31] » So, Carrie, I'm sorry to just clarify

[1:36:33] cuz you know I take notes here, but RSP,

[1:36:36] public outreach, and what was the

[1:36:38] second?

[1:36:39] >> Yeah.

[1:36:40] Sorry. Uh

[1:36:41] the tech technical analysis of using it

[1:36:45] as a utility corridor, which could be an

[1:36:47] aquifer recharge or frankly other types

[1:36:50] of utilities. If there's a need for a

[1:36:53] corridor through the community and this

[1:36:55] ends up being one that could be less

[1:36:58] expensive than maybe digging up roads or

[1:37:01] sidewalks and things like that. That

[1:37:03] could be a good way to get utilities

[1:37:04] through the community.

[1:37:06] >> And Gary, we're we're doing this study

[1:37:09] in cooperation with Mountain Lion

[1:37:10] Association governance.

[1:37:12] >> Yes, Dave. Uh

[1:37:13] we've gotten a grant from MAG and so

[1:37:16] we're working with them. They they will

[1:37:19] run the technical aspects

[1:37:20] [clears throat] of the grant and the earth.

[1:37:26] » I So, is there

[1:37:29] I guess just point of clarification. So,

[1:37:31] is there still water

[1:37:33] whether it be storm water or other water

[1:37:35] that could be moved through that canal

[1:37:38] uh but back to your point, there are

[1:37:41] different leadership ownership

[1:37:45] capacity.

[1:37:46] >> We'd have to take a

[1:37:47] >> That's going to be part of the study.

[1:37:50] >> That that that'll be a part of what

[1:37:51] we're going to be looking at, whether we

[1:37:53] do it under the study or independently.

[1:37:56] We'll We'll figure that out.

[1:37:58] Uh but absent the canal, there is water

[1:38:02] the canal company, there is water going

[1:38:04] in

[1:38:05] to the canal.

[1:38:07] >> The company There's no

[1:38:08] >> Well, I mean storm water is is coming

[1:38:11] into the canal. The canal company's not

[1:38:13] moving water through. But right now,

[1:38:15] there are private properties who their

[1:38:18] storm water goes into the canal, and

[1:38:20] that's one of the things we need to

[1:38:22] think about is if that canal does go

[1:38:24] away. Now, you got to remember when the

[1:38:26] canal company walks away, they're

[1:38:28] literally going to wash their hands and

[1:38:29] walk away and say, "Congratulations,

[1:38:32] Harmon Lindon. You have a canal through

[1:38:34] your your community. Good luck dealing

[1:38:36] with it."

[1:38:37] And so,

[1:38:38] uh if storm water from private

[1:38:41] properties is going into that canal,

[1:38:43] what does that mean?

[1:38:45] And uh if people start blocking off the

[1:38:48] canal and one person wants to take it

[1:38:51] over and fill it in, and the next door

[1:38:53] neighbor doesn't do that,

[1:38:56] where does that storm water go, and what

[1:38:57] happens to it?

[1:38:58] >> What's in it?

[1:38:59] >> Yeah,

[1:39:01] hopefully not. But that But we need to

[1:39:03] ensure that because if it does,

[1:39:06] you will be the ones getting the phone

[1:39:08] call from the canal company.

[1:39:11] Yeah.

[1:39:13] » All right, any other questions? Mayor

[1:39:14] McCalister had to step out for a 2:00

[1:39:16] meeting, so

[1:39:18] Thank you very much for your

[1:39:19] participation.

[1:39:20] >> I've been very good crowd again.

[1:39:23] >> [laughter]

[1:39:25] >> Are there any other issues, council

[1:39:27] members, that come to mind before we

[1:39:29] adjourn?

[1:39:31] >> Thanks for being with us. We sure

[1:39:33] appreciate it.

[1:39:33] >> Yes, Mayor McCalister and I we talked

[1:39:36] the first day where we said this would

[1:39:37] be really great

[1:39:39] um to just get together. Our cities are

[1:39:41] we're sister cities and our relationship

[1:39:44] is wonderful and

[1:39:45] um

[1:39:46] I would love to do this periodically.

[1:39:50] » Hopefully sooner next time so we don't

[1:39:53] have list quite so big to do.

[1:39:55] >> I know it's been I think it's been

[1:39:57] >> [clears throat]

[1:39:58] >> like 5 6 years.

[1:40:00] That's what maybe at least once a year

[1:40:03] or

[1:40:06] That would be great. We'll see. That's

[1:40:07] noted.

[1:40:08] Staff.

[1:40:09] >> Thank you.

[1:40:11] » I guess we need to vote on this.

[1:40:14] >> Sure.

[1:40:15] >> So moved.

[1:40:16] >> Thank you.

[1:40:17] >> Aye.

Orem City Council and Lindon City Council Joint Meeting 6.15.2026

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