[0:00] Australia. [laughter]

[0:04] » Hello, Governor. [laughter]

[0:08] » Mind the gap. Mind the gap.

[0:11] >> The gap.

[0:12] >> Well, we're glad to have you. It's what,

[0:15] like 10:00 there

[0:18] or something.

[0:19] >> Yeah. Yeah. 10:30.

[0:21] >> 30.

[0:22] >> Oh, okay. Well, we'll go ahead and get

[0:25] started. Our first item on our agenda is

[0:29] a presentation on the myorum update and

[0:31] it's a 10-minute presentation and then

[0:34] five minute Q&A. So, I'll turn the time

[0:36] over to our deputy city manager, Carrie

[0:38] Rug. Mayor, um we're really excited to

[0:41] return and report. We brought to you

[0:44] before we launched my OROM, the new

[0:46] platform for all residents to in

[0:49] interact with the city. Um, and we've

[0:52] got our software development project

[0:54] managers here, McKay Barton and Sarah

[0:57] Yel, and they are going to give us an

[1:00] update on how progress is going. And

[1:02] then we also brought council members um

[1:04] a sweatshirt for my arms so that we get

[1:07] our marketing out there. So, please wear

[1:09] it out, not on 100 degree weather, but

[1:10] please wear it to

[1:14] >> So, with that, I'll turn

[1:16] >> right. Welcome. you and I will say those

[1:19] are particularly comfortable sweaters.

[1:21] Not a sweater person, but I was really

[1:24] uh enjoying those.

[1:26] So, as a reminder, Carrie mentioned my

[1:28] ORM was the initiative that we launched

[1:30] back in April that helps us unify some

[1:33] of the online services that we're

[1:34] providing to our citizens um and anybody

[1:37] who wants to do business with this. make

[1:39] it a little bit more streamlined, a

[1:41] little bit more nice, a little bit more

[1:43] accessible so that it isn't as confusing

[1:45] when you're wanting to do business with

[1:46] the city of War. We launched on April

[1:50] 27th of this past year. And uh to this

[1:54] point, we've launched with a few

[1:55] applications that are already baked into

[1:57] the ecosystem. That being utilities,

[2:00] landlord licensing, project management,

[2:02] and our boards and commission site. So

[2:04] if I want to participate in any one of

[2:06] those, these services have now been

[2:08] streamlined as part of my ORM. Going

[2:10] forward, the next thing that is on the

[2:12] docket to be integrated into the system

[2:14] is our business licensing application

[2:16] and our fitness center applications. Um

[2:20] all services for the fitness center are

[2:21] going to be running through my near

[2:23] future. So

[2:26] >> sweet. Just to give you guys because

[2:28] we've been live for 11 weeks now with my

[2:31] Orum just about 11 weeks as of

[2:33] yesterday. Just to give you some numbers

[2:36] of what we've seen, we've had 4600 new

[2:40] myorum accounts created by citizens. And

[2:44] this to give you a little bit of idea,

[2:46] this is out of about 20,000 total

[2:49] utility customers we have. So we're

[2:54] almost a quarter of our utility

[2:56] customers have migrated over to the

[2:57] myorum site. We've processed almost

[3:00] 4,000 payments through the myorum site.

[3:03] This is also not including the kind of

[3:06] automatic payments to set up. So this is

[3:08] just myorum processed. And we also as

[3:11] part of the MyORAMM platform integrated

[3:13] a new fancy very secure payment

[3:17] processor that's helping us be uh more

[3:21] secure.

[3:22] We've had almost 500 new utility

[3:26] applications go through the Mayorum

[3:28] process process fire 3 in1 agents and

[3:30] then just to give you an idea of like

[3:32] the pacing here things have settled down

[3:34] a little bit. On average over the last

[3:37] two weeks, we've had 149 users log in

[3:40] per day and 40 new accounts per day.

[3:43] Averaged out over the last two weeks.

[3:44] So, it's being very heavily used right

[3:47] now. And I just want to give a big shout

[3:49] out to our 311 help center agents as

[3:52] well. They've been working super hard

[3:54] and super closely with all of our

[3:56] software engineers and they've done a

[3:58] really fantastic job of responding to

[4:00] the citizens and helping them through

[4:02] any issues they might have.

[4:04] We've been a constant communication on

[4:07] new features that the developers have

[4:09] been working with 311 to develop and

[4:11] launch. And so it's still growing. And

[4:14] like May said, we're going to add

[4:15] business licensing. We're going to add a

[4:17] fitness center. And it's going to be

[4:18] even more comprehensive in the future.

[4:23] Any questions?

[4:27] I'm so excited for this. Is so cool. Can

[4:29] you tell you said a couple more things

[4:31] are coming online, the fitness center,

[4:32] and lic. So the business licency, that's

[4:36] pretty straightforward. What kind of

[4:37] things will residents be able to do with

[4:39] the fitness center?

[4:42] >> This is things like I want to apply for

[4:44] a membership um or I want to apply for a

[4:46] subscription to a class. Uh the ability

[4:48] right now to manage those things, it's a

[4:50] little bit fragmented. If anybody's used

[4:52] that uh apt experience, it works. You

[4:55] can definitely get the job done, but it

[4:57] isn't always the neatest thing. We want

[4:58] to do is make sure that's a lot more

[5:00] simplified. So, I want to sign up for a

[5:02] cycling class. It should be a very clear

[5:04] and concise way to do that. You should

[5:06] know exactly how to do something like

[5:07] that. And this program is going to help

[5:10] facilitate things like, hey, I want to

[5:12] sign up for a new membership because

[5:14] there's a sale going on. You want to

[5:16] make sure that that's advertised and

[5:17] that it is clear what happens when

[5:19] you're actually buying that membership,

[5:21] what it all entails, what's offered to

[5:22] you, the ability to renew or cancel it.

[5:25] Uh those types of things we want to make

[5:27] sure we're

[5:29] >> This is great. I'm excited. So until the

[5:32] I saw the sign it's what November when uh the bill pay shuts down.

[5:37] >> So November we will cut over because

[5:38] right now we're running both sides

[5:40] simultaneously to help ease the

[5:42] transition for our users. In November we

[5:44] will cut over. We will close down the

[5:46] bill pay site and then we will all new

[5:50] users will need to migrate to my ORUM.

[5:52] There will still be the ability for if

[5:53] you haven't signed up after November you

[5:55] can go in you can link your account.

[5:57] None of the data will be lost. But the

[6:00] bill pay site will be taken down.

[6:02] >> Yeah,

[6:03] >> council. Are there any other questions?

[6:07] >> Awesome.

[6:07] >> Yeah, I do have a question.

[6:09] >> Thank you.

[6:10] >> Yeah, Quinn.

[6:11] >> Quinn.

[6:12] >> Oh, Quinn. Oh, sorry, Quinn.

[6:14] >> No worries. I I can raise my hand if

[6:17] it's useful. I I can't tell if people

[6:18] are checking that or not. Otherwise,

[6:20] I'll just jump in.

[6:23] >> Thank Thanks so much for uh working on

[6:25] this. I know it's been a huge project.

[6:26] I'm just so excited about its potential.

[6:30] Uh McKay, I'm wondering if maybe you

[6:32] could share some of the bumps in the

[6:34] road that we've hit, some of the things

[6:35] that we hadn't anticipated that you've

[6:38] worked hard to try to resolve and uh

[6:40] where you think we still have challenges

[6:43] that needs um need some work before we

[6:47] get to where we want to be.

[6:49] >> Yeah, definitely. So one of the biggest

[6:51] challenges that we've had in creating

[6:53] this is we are working with data that

[6:55] has been existing for years. This data

[6:58] has been created in such a way that it

[7:01] was really well tailored to what we

[7:03] wanted when we created it, but the needs

[7:05] of the city have shifted over time. And

[7:07] so as we're creating this new uh

[7:09] application, we're needing to take all

[7:11] of that information, still use it, make

[7:13] sure that we're not losing citizens

[7:15] data, and still make it more modern,

[7:18] something that reflects the needs of the

[7:20] city to date, but is also something

[7:21] that's adaptable for the needs of the

[7:23] city going forward. So the challenge in

[7:25] finding ways to make sure that that is

[7:27] connected smoothly and fluidly has been

[7:29] a very big challenge for us. There were

[7:31] definitely some road bumps that we were

[7:33] hitting right as we were launching my

[7:35] ORM and people not being quite sure how

[7:37] that connection worked. We had to do a

[7:39] lot of work with our 311 agents to make

[7:41] sure that they fully understood and

[7:42] could conceptualize how that data was

[7:45] migrating. But we've now settled on a

[7:48] way that we're pretty confident and

[7:50] we've been seeing a lot of success in

[7:51] making sure that that data migration is

[7:53] happening far smoother now than it was

[7:56] 11 weeks ago. Um, this is not a

[7:59] challenge that is unique to just

[8:00] utilities. When we on board the fitness

[8:02] center, we're going to run into a lot of

[8:04] the same issues. But thankfully, because

[8:06] of the work we've done, we've been able

[8:08] to figure out and we have very good uh

[8:10] guards in place that our team is working

[8:12] on right now to make sure that when we

[8:14] hit those roadblocks, we're able to move

[8:16] around them very agile, very quickly.

[8:20] >> Yeah. Um I I know that you know there

[8:23] have been a number of residents that

[8:24] contacted me uh who have had challenges

[8:28] migrating over. Uh but I have been

[8:30] impressed that uh once we get them

[8:33] connected with the right person uh at

[8:34] 311 that it it goes very smoothly uh

[8:39] when they do hit those challenges. So

[8:41] appreciate you working carefully at 311.

[8:44] >> They've done an incredible job. We're

[8:45] really grateful for them for sure.

[8:49] >> All right. Thank you. Any other

[8:50] questions?

[8:53] >> All right. Thank you so much. I'm I'm

[8:56] excited to get over there. My or

[8:59] >> it is Well, like we were talking about,

[9:01] it's everybody's my orm. It isn't.

[9:04] >> And you got a sweater now. You got a

[9:05] mic.

[9:06] >> I've got a Yeah.

[9:08] >> Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

[9:10] >> Right. The next item on our agenda is

[9:12] our uh fraud presentation on our fraud

[9:15] risk assessment uh from by our chief

[9:17] financial officer, Brandon Nelson. and

[9:19] it's a five-minute presentation with

[9:20] five minute Q&A. So, I'll go ahead and

[9:22] turn the time over to Brandon.

[9:29] » Thank you, mayor. So every year uh as

[9:32] part of the state auditor uh and their

[9:34] compliance requirements um the financial

[9:38] officer of every um entity who is under

[9:43] the state uh is required to come forward

[9:46] with uh his fraud risk assessment in the

[9:48] and they all have used the same uh form.

[9:52] Um and try to give you an idea of where

[9:55] we are with it if there's any questions

[9:58] about it. um any things of that nature.

[10:02] I will tell you upfront,

[10:05] this fraud risk assessment is really

[10:08] geared towards much smallerities.

[10:10] That was what prompted this assessment

[10:13] in the first place was smaller entities

[10:16] who just don't have the same level of

[10:19] depth in relation to their internal

[10:21] control structures and rely upon a much

[10:25] smaller number of people to do a much

[10:28] larger number of things. Um and so so

[10:31] what you're going to see that here in a

[10:33] few of the items. Um you'll notice at

[10:35] the very top our score of 335

[10:39] where that falls within um low is good

[10:44] just so we want to go this way right.

[10:49] So it has been that score for and pretty

[10:53] much ever since we started this fraud

[10:55] risk assessment since the state started

[10:58] requiring it. Um, you'll notice all

[11:01] everything is checked until we get down

[11:05] to this area.

[11:06] >> Oh, it's us.

[11:09] [laughter]

[11:10] >> So, this is why I wanted it. So, there's

[11:12] a couple of reasons why. Number one, the

[11:17] number four that you see there, why why

[11:19] is it that we don't necessarily do that?

[11:21] Well, we have such a thing within our

[11:25] policies and procedures,

[11:27] but you'll notice that it what it

[11:29] specifically says we must do. And we

[11:33] just have never gone to that extreme, if

[11:36] you will, of having you sign a document,

[11:40] physically sign a document indicating

[11:42] some uh various things in relation to

[11:45] this.

[11:45] >> Every year, it looks like

[11:46] >> every year. So we haven't felt that that

[11:49] was totally necessary um to do so.

[11:54] Number five, there is training

[11:58] specifically related to finance the

[12:02] finances of the city that each and every

[12:05] one of you could go do and we would then

[12:08] meet that requirement. I will tell you

[12:11] it is somewhat lengthy.

[12:14] Um,

[12:15] and you only have to do it once in this

[12:17] particular case. You only have to do it

[12:19] once in your uh 4-year term.

[12:22] Uh, and I and I not sure I I've never

[12:26] taken it, of course, but I'm not sure

[12:29] how beneficial it is to you. It may or

[12:32] may not be that beneficial. Um, so

[12:36] again, that's kind of another one of

[12:37] those where could we meet that

[12:40] requirement? Certainly could. Um, I just

[12:43] don't know how truly beneficial it is to do so.

[12:49] Last item you'll notice there is number

[12:50] eight. And we do not have a formal

[12:55] internal audit function. We have many

[12:59] internal audit functions.

[13:01] Key cards for one.

[13:04] uh petty cash another accounts payable

[13:07] has fun uh control internal controls

[13:10] related to it. There are several other

[13:13] programs where we have internal controls

[13:16] related to those programs, but this is

[13:20] referring to a separate someone outside

[13:24] of our organization

[13:27] who formal and it could be a inside your

[13:29] organization, but they're separate from

[13:32] the account the finance department who

[13:35] performs

[13:37] >> audit functions for you.

[13:40] again uh we haven't felt like there's a

[13:42] need for that. Our organization is large

[13:45] enough that we don't necessarily feel

[13:47] like we need to bring in an outside

[13:50] entity u to perform any of those

[13:52] particular uh internal audit functions.

[13:56] So those are the three elements that

[14:00] uh that we don't and we'd have to get

[14:02] two at least two of those in order to go

[14:04] from low to very low. So we'd be right

[14:08] with only one of those three. We'd be

[14:10] just right on the border because it's

[14:12] greater than

[14:14] notice it's greater than 355.

[14:18] Um we continue to operate very well from

[14:21] a control internal control perspective.

[14:24] We have not had any external or internal

[14:26] fraud that we've been uh noticed or that

[14:30] we have been notified about anything of

[14:33] that nature. Um, this last year we

[14:35] actually haven't even seen anything

[14:38] where I think we've only had one if I

[14:40] remember correctly where uh it got we

[14:42] got something flagged where one of our

[14:45] people kind of just not noticed uh as we

[14:48] all take our trainings in no before in

[14:51] relation to various fraud control risks

[14:54] and you know don't click on this link or

[14:56] don't click on that link. Um so

[14:57] something kind of like that. Um,

[15:01] that's really all I have in relation to

[15:04] talking about the assessment. Are there

[15:06] any questions about any the items um

[15:10] that are on on there that or any of

[15:12] those uh three elements that I discussed

[15:14] that uh we're currently not meeting.

[15:18] >> Any questions? Council, do you have any

[15:21] questions?

[15:27] » All right. Thank you. Um I'd like to um

[15:30] since we since we started welcome

[15:32] council members Gail and Millet who have

[15:35] joined us. Um our next item is a

[15:39] presentation on firework cancellation

[15:42] followup 10-minute presentation five

[15:44] minute Q&A. So I'll turn the time over

[15:45] to um Chief Mark Sanderson. Fire Chief

[15:48] Mark Sanderson.

[15:50] >> Thank you Mayor Council. Um, it's really

[15:53] my opportunity to publicly thank you all

[15:57] for

[15:58] I mean what what probably historic the

[16:01] most difficult decision we've made from

[16:03] a fire related community perspective in

[16:06] taking something away or supporting a

[16:08] statewide band that was recommended.

[16:11] um

[16:13] it was super appreciative at least from

[16:16] my office and our team just in in

[16:19] trusting the decision we made that was

[16:21] what we felt was in the best interest of

[16:23] the community. Um,

[16:26] I'll follow up to that is that the years

[16:31] 24 and 25 resulting from fireworks, we

[16:35] had 24 firework related fire starts

[16:40] within the three communities. Um, as a

[16:42] result of the ban and truly the

[16:45] compliance from our citizenry, we

[16:47] reduced those fires by 90% to two

[16:52] firework

[16:53] fire start related fires. One was in

[16:56] Lynen um garbage can. The other one was

[16:59] a grass fire in Vineyard. So not a

[17:01] single fire within Oram city limits but

[17:04] within our response area a fire in both

[17:06] the other communities that was really

[17:08] minor in nature. So

[17:11] I mean it was a substantial

[17:14] reduction in the potential

[17:18] and I feel like overall publicly the

[17:23] support within our social media

[17:26] the numbers I heard Pete and if I'm off

[17:29] please correct me but it was about a six

[17:30] to one positive to negative

[17:34] relationship and so

[17:37] I think we made the right decision.

[17:39] No question in my mind it was the right

[17:41] decision. There was just no way to not

[17:45] support the ban and then actually have a

[17:49] fire in the foothills, a structure fire

[17:51] in our community, heaven forbid, have a

[17:54] firefighter injured or killed like we

[17:56] saw with the wildland deployments and be

[17:59] able to justify that in any way. And so

[18:04] I think it was very successful

[18:07] and it's very much appreciative.

[18:10] Last night, uh, Ryan sent me a survey

[18:15] from

[18:17] a citizen.

[18:18] >> Thank you. That was just following up to

[18:21] our our position, our stance, the

[18:25] overall feeling, the support. They

[18:27] requested to know if we have a wildland

[18:29] team, which we do, where they deployed

[18:32] and assisted on the other statewide for

[18:35] uh fires. They're gathering all of the

[18:37] information in preparation for the 24th.

[18:40] Um there is a lot of concern. Just so

[18:44] we're all clear, there's currently a

[18:46] statewide ban on fireworks. Um just not

[18:50] an authorized period within our statute

[18:52] to shoot them, but it's clearly a ban.

[18:55] And I think we're I don't see the

[18:57] circumstances changing. It'll be

[19:00] interesting to see how the league takes

[19:01] feedback from all of the members and

[19:05] then presents information to the

[19:08] governor and the state forester to make

[19:10] a make a decision coming up. I hope they

[19:13] make it sooner than later.

[19:15] Um but it's definitely on the horizon.

[19:18] And one of the questions just so that

[19:22] we're all on the same page with uh my

[19:25] answer was they asked would we support

[19:29] a similar ban or would we be against it

[19:32] and it was strongly support strongly uh

[19:36] opposed and I just stayed neutral

[19:39] because the from my perspective is I'm

[19:42] not going to be pro firework. I'm not

[19:44] going to be against fireworks. we're

[19:47] going to let the state make their

[19:49] decision, the state forester make a

[19:50] decision, and then we'll gather all the

[19:52] information and

[19:54] make a decision if it comes to that. So,

[19:58] I I didn't want to leverage our

[20:00] organization one way or the other. And

[20:02] so, I think it was was good. I did I did

[20:06] also note they asked for any other

[20:08] considerations

[20:10] and

[20:11] I I thought it was very positive. So, I

[20:13] shared just a short paragraph that based

[20:17] on the decision to uh support the state

[20:20] van. We crafted a letter. Um, our city

[20:25] attorney reviewed it and then our

[20:27] wildland or not our wildland, our fire

[20:29] prevention team delivered what I felt

[20:31] was a very nice uh gesture to all of our

[20:36] independent fireworks stands

[20:38] that offered them a return on their

[20:41] permit fee, their inspection fee, and

[20:44] 100% recoup of their bond.

[20:48] It's completely at their discretion.

[20:49] There was no pressure applied. The only

[20:52] compliance from our perspective is they

[20:54] wouldn't they needed to see selling

[20:56] fireworks through the bill which

[20:59] supported the ban. Um there wasn't a

[21:03] there wasn't any one of them that took

[21:04] us up on that offer, but I felt like um

[21:08] it was at least our show of good faith

[21:12] doing the best we could for the local

[21:15] business owners that hard time and heart

[21:17] understanding. So, I think that was very

[21:20] positive.

[21:22] Talking with Chief Robinson,

[21:25] we had two citizens that were issued

[21:28] citations. They were repeat offenders,

[21:32] initially provided warnings, had to

[21:34] return. Um,

[21:36] I I would suspect the overall firework

[21:40] violations

[21:42] were significantly reduced as far as

[21:44] just calls. Um, but there were at least

[21:47] 40 40 or so more warnings provided. So,

[21:52] I think neighbors did their job in

[21:54] keeping their neighborhoods safe. Law

[21:56] enforcement was awesome in responding to

[22:00] those requests and supporting our band

[22:02] and ultimately to citations. I think

[22:06] that also achieves a goal of being

[22:08] supportive of really hard time in our

[22:10] community. So, with that, I don't have

[22:13] any other

[22:16] information to report, but I'm happy to

[22:18] answer any questions or

[22:20] >> any questions, council.

[22:23] >> Um, I do have one this time if it's

[22:25] okay. U Chief Sanderson, sure appreciate

[22:29] your guidance uh on it and I'm delighted

[22:32] to hear that we had very low incidences.

[22:36] uh if this is an appropriate time, uh

[22:39] would you be willing to share uh what

[22:41] we're doing to support the wild wildland

[22:46] fire folks? Um I I just am not uh sure

[22:50] what kind of support we've been

[22:52] providing for fires around the state.

[22:54] >> We think that's the next is that the

[22:56] next item on the agenda.

[22:57] >> Yes. and both

[22:59] and Captain Hickman, we can actually

[23:02] address that point as part of their

[23:04] presentation if that's okay.

[23:06] >> Sure.

[23:06] >> May I ask was the fire in Lynen like the

[23:09] hillside? What was that?

[23:11] >> Yeah, the fire in Lyndon was actually

[23:13] just a firework placed in a garbage can

[23:16] and it was isolated to a single can

[23:19] which is one of

[23:22] it's probably the number one cause that

[23:24] leads to structure fires. I happened at

[23:26] my parents house in Pleasant Grove years

[23:27] ago. You take your burnt fireworks,

[23:30] they're not cooled off. You put them in

[23:31] your garbage. You wake up at 3:00 in the

[23:33] morning with a neighbor pounding on the

[23:35] door because the side of your house is

[23:36] on fire. And so it's we we just avoided

[23:40] all of that. It was amazing. One little

[23:42] grass fire and the there were just so

[23:46] minimal.

[23:48] It actually shocking. It just goes to

[23:51] show the request, the concern

[23:53] communitywide

[23:54] in

[23:57] not doing something we all loved. So, it

[23:59] was very successful.

[24:02] >> Thank you for your thoughtfulness in

[24:05] offering to return those funds to those

[24:07] business owners. um every time you drive

[24:10] by those and you see nothing happening

[24:12] there and it kind of breaks your heart

[24:14] uh for their you know anticipation and

[24:17] excitement and looking forward to you

[24:20] know hopefully a great season but uh I I

[24:22] think that was a very kind and

[24:25] thoughtful gesture to to at least make

[24:26] that offer.

[24:28] >> Thank you. I did learn today um talking

[24:31] with Chief Spencer, he's our city fire

[24:34] marshal, that um firework companies love

[24:40] the state of Utah because of the 24th.

[24:42] >> I mean, we have our own independent

[24:44] state holiday that double dip.

[24:48] >> So, we'll we'll we'll just see what the

[24:51] 24th brings. I don't get any

[24:53] predictions. I just know that it is a

[24:56] topic

[24:58] that's a that's it's a it's a big deal

[25:00] right now. So, taking it serious and of

[25:02] course we'll utilize all that

[25:04] information to make the best decisions.

[25:07] So, thank you.

[25:08] >> Thank you. And thank you for your work

[25:11] in the letter and doing the video. a lot

[25:14] of positive feedback just the neighbor

[25:16] the community saying how they appreciate

[25:18] the followup from this from you

[25:20] explaining what happened what the

[25:22] results were and so thank you team is so

[25:25] awesome and I'm not Chief Hurst is our

[25:29] PIO he does our social media he's the

[25:32] one that gets interviewed this was one

[25:34] of those things that

[25:36] >> made you look good

[25:37] >> he made [laughter]

[25:40] this question because you hear your own

[25:41] voice and you're like don't sound like

[25:43] that. And then after you're walking down

[25:45] the hall cuz it was like video record,

[25:47] take one 20 seconds. She's like, "That

[25:50] was pretty good." I'm like, "Okay." I

[25:53] walk down the hall and then I start

[25:54] thinking of all these things. I could

[25:56] have smiled. I could have been so much

[25:57] nicer [laughter]

[26:00] in the circumstances of how we're here

[26:02] this historic year. And

[26:04] >> a little out of character.

[26:07] >> So true.

[26:09] >> That's why I did recess.

[26:13] So good

[26:13] >> your cell phone

[26:15] >> after the thinking could have smiled

[26:18] could have been nicer.

[26:21] Chief's respons responsibility.

[26:24] >> Just know that in my office I have a

[26:26] bright red wig, a tie-dyed calf tan and

[26:29] sunglasses. If you need to have that

[26:32] alter

[26:34] of character, but I'm going to do it

[26:36] next time. [laughter]

[26:38] It's been a long time since I had some

[26:40] air.

[26:44] All right. Thank you. [gasps]

[26:46] Our next item on the agenda is a

[26:48] presentation, a wildland team update,

[26:51] 20-minute presentation, five minute Q&A.

[26:53] And our presenters are our assistant

[26:55] fire chief Sean Hurst and fire captain

[26:57] Mike Kickman. We'll go ahead and turn

[26:59] the time over to you. Welcome.

[27:01] >> Thank you.

[27:03] >> I thought that was his could be a little

[27:06] clicker. I'll discuss the town version.

[27:09] Well, I'm Assistant Chief Sean Hurst.

[27:11] Um, I've had the luxury of of overseeing

[27:12] the wildland program for the last nine

[27:14] years. This is Captain Mike Hickman. Um,

[27:18] a little bit history on the wildland

[27:19] team. I'm going to do administrative.

[27:20] He'll do operations side. That's kind of

[27:22] how we structure this. Uh, I don't know

[27:24] if anybody recalls

[27:26] 2017 the state of Utah was asked to come

[27:28] help uh California on the Thomas fire

[27:30] December of 2017

[27:32] uh on what's called an EMAC. I always

[27:35] have to emergency management assistant

[27:36] compact or fire didn't go on that we

[27:40] weren't ready. We had no business going

[27:42] on that fire and it was honestly quite

[27:45] embarrassing uh that our wildland

[27:48] uh structure or structure firefighting

[27:50] was sound or wildland fighting was not.

[27:53] Um my kickman was a firefighter at the

[27:56] time. He had had significant wildland

[27:58] experience before coming to Warm Fire

[28:00] and we'd supported him uh along the way

[28:02] for a number of years on trying to

[28:05] maintain that. Uh but that next year he

[28:07] approached myself and the chief with a

[28:09] program on how to fix that. And so we're

[28:12] really proud of where we are. Uh 9 years

[28:15] later um War and Fire is a significant

[28:20] force in the wildland world in the state

[28:22] of Utah. Uh we've developed a program

[28:24] that's well well known or name requested

[28:28] uh and Pikmin is a big part of this but

[28:31] we have several other engine bosses that

[28:32] and ORM's engine is on the task force or

[28:35] engine gets the toughest job. We are

[28:38] known for doing the hard hard hard the

[28:41] toughest assignments and that's how we

[28:43] want the program to run. Uh he'll get in

[28:45] the nuts and bolts of how we accomplish

[28:47] that but not only engine the personnel

[28:49] that we have in this this city now. Um,

[28:52] we have several bosses. We have what's

[28:54] called a task force leader in in years

[28:57] down the road. Uh, well, it's he'll be

[29:00] my kickman. He'll be leading task forces

[29:01] for Emacs out of state. Uh, we have two

[29:04] people we're developing as part of type

[29:06] three teams that will deploy all over

[29:08] the nation um to instance response.

[29:10] Could be hurricanes, tornadoes, floods.

[29:13] Right now, they're doing wildland

[29:14] responses is that's uh that's what we

[29:16] know. Um, so we want to thank the city,

[29:20] the investment that we've had over the

[29:21] last eight years. Uh, you guys have been

[29:23] willing to purchase us two two brush

[29:25] trucks that are purpose-built for

[29:26] deployment. We're prior to that. We

[29:28] didn't really have a a vehicle that was

[29:30] good to take out. Uh, we are under

[29:32] contract on a wildland engine. Uh, we're

[29:34] going to take delivery next summer that

[29:36] is going to be fully funded by wildland

[29:39] revenue brought back by these members to

[29:41] the the city. So about that revenue when

[29:44] we started this program it wasn't about

[29:46] dollars and honestly the dollars weren't

[29:48] there. It was about developing a program

[29:50] that protect or better and develop our

[29:53] personnel. Now over the years um the

[29:56] state has recognized that they can't

[29:58] function without us. We're what's called

[30:00] a cooperator and Hickman will get in

[30:02] kind of the guts of that but um they've

[30:05] kind of sweetened the pot and so uh we

[30:08] are going to fund that that engine all

[30:10] off of revenue. So right now we're at

[30:11] 1.4 4 million gross brought into the

[30:14] city and a lion share of that goes to

[30:17] our employees in overtime. Um, but we've

[30:20] been able to run this program in the

[30:21] black. We're starting to buy our own

[30:22] equipment, buy our own PPE, and buy a

[30:25] fire engine next year. So, we're pretty

[30:26] excited about that. So, before I

[30:29] introduce Mike Hickman, um, everybody

[30:32] saw the smoke two weeks ago, three weeks

[30:34] ago. Prior to that, the state um,

[30:38] red flag warnings. Everybody familiar

[30:40] with that? We have fire conditions that

[30:42] we know if a fire sparks it's going to

[30:44] grow immensely. Um and they forecasted

[30:48] that the state was some task forces sent

[30:51] them all over the all over the state.

[30:54] Our units were part of a task force that

[30:56] was st stationed in Probo. They were

[30:58] spun up just a couple days before that

[30:59] fire and they were ready to go for the

[31:01] Iron Fire. Um the night of June 20th. Um

[31:05] I've had a lot of calls for Mike over

[31:06] the years and uh we had a busy day. We

[31:09] had a close call, but the night of the

[31:12] 20th and watching that plume of smoke

[31:14] fearing the evacuation of Eureka and

[31:16] knowing that these guys were on the

[31:17] flaming front of that fire was a little

[31:19] different when they're right in the

[31:20] backyard. Um there was a structure uh

[31:25] team that was mostly volunteer

[31:26] firefighters in Eureka that night. Um

[31:29] task force actual and Mike Hickman saw

[31:31] the need. They were able to talk the IC

[31:33] into what's called going direct on that

[31:35] flaming front. uh they rolled into town

[31:37] with flame lengths 30 40 maybe 50 feet

[31:40] on the ridge and were a big part of

[31:42] saving Rica that night. So uh Hickman

[31:45] will get into the kind of the guts of

[31:46] that but the beauty of it is they've

[31:48] been there before. Uh they've been on

[31:50] the Dixie fire uh or scale Dixie fire

[31:54] burnt just under a million acres. So

[31:56] roughly 75% of Utah County would have

[31:58] been burnt in the Dixie fire in

[32:00] California. And they were out saving

[32:01] homes and properties in that fire

[32:03] several years before. So they were ready

[32:05] for this. So, I want to turn the time

[32:07] over to Mike Hickman. Um, really proud

[32:09] of where he is in in this uh his career

[32:12] and where he has is in the wildland

[32:14] division right now. And he'll get into

[32:16] the operations and what it's like out

[32:18] there in the field and what it was like

[32:20] that night in Eureka. So, thanks, Chief.

[32:25] >> I appreciate the opportunity to present

[32:26] to you guys. Um, some of you guys that

[32:28] have been on the council for a little

[32:29] bit, I've presented similar things

[32:31] before, just kind of talking about our

[32:33] program, letting you guys stay up to

[32:35] date on what it is that we're doing

[32:37] because we just we really appreciate

[32:39] your guys' support and the opportunity

[32:40] to represent the city of Oram all across

[32:43] the country. Um, it's been a been a

[32:45] great success. So,

[32:49] maybe

[32:51] the best thing about these presentations

[32:53] is Mike puts together slideshow. He adds

[32:56] some music and it's awesome.

[32:59] >> Yeah, it's not Pete's team. I thought

[33:01] you were going there,

[33:02] >> but [laughter]

[33:03] it's a fireman's version.

[33:07] >> You'll have to bear with me there. So,

[33:09] our wildland team currently, it's made

[33:10] up of 17 uh individuals. We're spread

[33:13] out al amongst the the three shifts as

[33:16] well as we have four members in the

[33:18] office that participate in the team as

[33:20] well. We have different positions within

[33:22] the team like a saw boss, a supply cache

[33:24] manager, communication specialist, uh a

[33:27] wooi coordinator, the wildland urban

[33:29] interface. So we try and cover all these

[33:31] different things as subject matter

[33:33] experts within the department on this

[33:35] wildland team. Um we have myself

[33:38] qualified as a task force leader, strike

[33:40] team leader, and IC type 4. We have

[33:43] three engine bosses including myself. Uh

[33:45] three IC type fives and five firefighter

[33:48] type ones. Those are our current

[33:50] qualifications.

[33:51] >> C stands for incident commander.

[33:53] >> Yes sir. Yes sir. So the incident

[33:56] command system it was uh really it was

[33:59] born from the wildland world. It was

[34:01] originally called fire scope. It came

[34:03] out of California and they were just

[34:05] really good at running large scale

[34:07] incidents. Um 9/11 happens and nobody

[34:11] knew how to run an incident that big.

[34:14] And a fun fact about 9/11, um, a bunch

[34:18] of wildland dudes with beards and green

[34:20] pants showed up and helped the FDNY run

[34:23] that large scale of an incident. And

[34:26] that's where NIMS and ICS was born was

[34:29] out of the 9/11 uh, incident where the

[34:33] national response framework was built

[34:35] and kind of was all born from the

[34:37] wildland industry. So the way they run

[34:40] it is a type five incident is the

[34:42] smallest incident that that we have as

[34:44] far as typing goes. A type four and

[34:46] that's something that it's done in over

[34:48] in a single operational period. So

[34:50] that's like a car wreck on State Street.

[34:52] That's a medical call. That's a single

[34:55] lightning strike. Uh one trees on fire

[34:58] small incident. Type four incident large

[35:01] scale. There's going to be a lot more

[35:03] people there. It's more of a complex

[35:05] thing. a type three incident. Now you're

[35:08] going to start bringing in these are the

[35:09] kinds of probably classes you guys have

[35:10] taken where there's a finance section

[35:12] chief and a logistics section chief and

[35:14] all these type things. And then there's

[35:17] ultimately a complex incident management

[35:19] team. They used to split it between one

[35:20] and two, but that's kind of splitting

[35:22] hairs. So that's where we're at. We've

[35:24] got a myself as a type four IC and then

[35:27] I've got three type five incident

[35:28] commanders that have to go through task

[35:31] books and get signed off having real

[35:33] world experience doing those things. Hey

[35:35] Mike, where did our where did the

[35:36] temponogus fire categorize?

[35:39] >> The range fire was ended up being a type

[35:40] three incident. So, um I was able I was

[35:44] I just had my first child. Um he was

[35:47] like 10 days old and I get a phone call

[35:49] saying, "Hey, uh Mike, the mountain's on

[35:51] fire. I uh I live here in town." I was

[35:54] like, "Yep, I can see that. Sounds like

[35:55] you guys are going to have a fun day.

[35:56] That'll be cool." "No, Mike, I need you

[35:58] to come in." Like, I'm on FMLA. I don't

[36:01] know. Sorry. I got a newborn and no

[36:04] Mike. Uh, it started in the in the

[36:07] shooting range. I I need you to come in.

[36:09] So, I was a type four IC trainee that

[36:13] got to run a type three fire for the

[36:15] first couple days. So, got just thrown

[36:17] into the deep end and figured out how to

[36:19] swim.

[36:19] >> One one more thing, too. that anybody

[36:22] needs to toot your horn horn because

[36:24] you're amazing, but explain to them the role you play as the task force

[36:29] leader in comparison to other

[36:31] departments and how that looks like for

[36:32] the state. So, as a task force leader,

[36:34] I'm able to in the wildland world,

[36:38] there's engine bosses is usually going

[36:40] to be like your engine captain, right?

[36:42] But in the wildland world, there's a lot

[36:43] more than just engines. There's hand

[36:45] crews like hot shot crews that you guys

[36:47] are used to. They're led by a crew boss.

[36:50] There's um heavy equipment, so like

[36:52] dozers and masticators and um big

[36:55] machinery, so they have a heavy

[36:57] equipment boss. There's firing bosses.

[36:59] There's all these different levels of

[37:00] supervisors. And then a task force

[37:03] leader can take all different types. So

[37:05] this task force that I um was able to to

[37:08] supervise just barely with the state, we

[37:11] had a dozer, a water tender, type four

[37:13] engines, type three engines, and type

[37:14] six engines. And as a task force leader,

[37:17] I'm able to supervise all those

[37:18] different types of of resources all at

[37:21] the same time. So,

[37:22] >> thank you. It's really significant. It

[37:25] really is what puts like Chief Vers

[37:26] said, ORM on the map with our

[37:28] capabilities all stemming from one

[37:31] individual that saw the need and where

[37:33] it's expanded. So,

[37:35] >> yeah. So, when when we started in 2018,

[37:38] it was a nineperson team. um I was the

[37:41] one and only engine boss on the for the

[37:42] program and everybody else was at that

[37:44] firefighter type two level and now we've

[37:46] got five firefighter ones, three engine

[37:49] bosses and uh like Chief was saying

[37:51] myself as a task force leader. So kind

[37:53] of a a little bit of a timeline. Um

[37:56] Chief Hurst kind of touched on this a

[37:57] little bit. We pitched the program in

[37:59] 2017. Um this this presentation is not

[38:02] about me, but I I started wildland fire

[38:05] in 2009. I did it right out of high

[38:07] school. So that was kind of my

[38:08] background coming into ORM fire in 2014.

[38:11] A few years in, um, I was able to to

[38:14] team up with Chief Hurst, who was my

[38:16] battalion chief at the time, and we we

[38:18] pitched this program. At the time, the

[38:21] only people that held their wildland

[38:23] fire certifications were those that had

[38:26] it through their part-time employment,

[38:27] that they worked somewhere else and

[38:28] that's where they got it. um ORM fire

[38:31] for the longest time the mentality was

[38:34] hey our job is structures our job isn't

[38:36] uh wildland so we're going to call the

[38:38] guys with the green pants to come and

[38:40] take care of that right um I was able to meet with our our leadership team and

[38:46] explain to them it actually is a little

[38:48] more complicated than that um if the

[38:50] fire starts in ORM and goes into state

[38:54] or federal property that is ORM's

[38:56] problem um so we have a lot of buoy or

[38:59] wildland urban interface all across that

[39:02] eastbench. Obviously that if a fire

[39:04] starts in our backyards and goes up the

[39:08] hill, we enter into what's called a cost

[39:10] share with uh with the federal

[39:12] government at that point because

[39:14] ultimately that fire is kind of our

[39:16] fault. It happened started in our city,

[39:18] right? By participating in the state's

[39:22] program, the it's a it's a contract that

[39:24] we enter in with them every year. um and

[39:27] the cost share agreement that we enter

[39:29] into with them. It's essentially

[39:30] insurance that we get through the state

[39:32] of Utah by playing the game, playing by

[39:35] their rules. When we have a large fire

[39:38] happen in the city of ORM, the state of

[39:40] Utah picks up the bill because we go and

[39:42] help when the state of Utah needs help

[39:44] in other instances. So, uh I don't know

[39:47] all the specifics behind it, but I know

[39:49] that a bill was issued to the city of

[39:51] Orm after the range fire. we were able

[39:53] to highlight that contract and send it

[39:55] back and not have to pay a giant bill

[39:57] for the range fire. So, paid off paid

[40:00] off big for us that day. Um,

[40:03] and by doing these deployments, um, that

[40:07] helps us. But then also with the cost

[40:08] share stuff, we do mitigation projects

[40:11] every year for all three cities where we

[40:13] go around and we reduce our wildland

[40:15] fire risk up to a certain uh dollar

[40:19] amount that the state says, "Hey, you

[40:21] need to do this much work." Um, which we do more than what they request every

[40:27] year. So, spring of 2019, the the team

[40:31] formed 2020, like Chief Hurst said, we

[40:33] purchased our first uh deployment ready

[40:35] type 6 engine. This is uh our first type

[40:37] six that we ordered right here. First

[40:40] one was a single cab Ford. Um it was

[40:43] very cozy riding with three dudes all

[40:46] the way to Ventura, California in a

[40:48] single

[40:50] [laughter]

[40:51] >> high school days.

[40:53] That's true.

[40:54] >> We were able to uh to really get to know

[40:56] each other being three deep all the way

[40:58] to Ventura and being three deep for 14

[41:01] days in the west desert of of Utah here.

[41:04] So, we were able to get this truck,

[41:06] which has been a great workhorse for us.

[41:08] So, we've been really happy with this.

[41:10] Um, in 2025, we were able to purchase a

[41:12] sister engine to this. It's another

[41:14] four-door Dodge just like it. Uh, so

[41:17] engine 632 and 634 are our type 6 fire

[41:20] trucks that go out on these wildland

[41:23] deployments. So, just for some

[41:24] perspective, these are type six engines.

[41:27] It's a a Ram 5500. Um, and then type one

[41:31] engines are what we normally have

[41:33] driving around here in the streets of

[41:34] Worm that you guys see all the time. So,

[41:36] we currently have a type three engine

[41:38] that's on order that'll be coming. So,

[41:40] it's just sits right there in the middle

[41:41] between those those two. So, it's it's a

[41:44] larger engine, not as big as our normal

[41:46] type ones. It still has four-wheel drive

[41:48] capabilities, but it has a larger pump,

[41:51] carries more water and things like that.

[41:52] So, it can it can pump longer hose on

[41:55] these wildland fires. So, what what's the benefit to the city

[42:00] outside of that cost share agreement and

[42:03] that insurance? Uh there's a lot of

[42:05] things that that this program brings

[42:07] back to the city. It for me the number

[42:10] one point that I brought was the safety

[42:12] aspect for our first responders. Um we

[42:14] go on a lot of specialty calls as uh

[42:17] first responders were kind of that that

[42:20] hey, I got a problem. I'm going to call

[42:22] and the fire department's going to

[42:23] figure it out. You wouldn't believe some

[42:24] of the stuff we get called for to help

[42:26] people out on. Um, but wildland fire is

[42:29] one of those specialties that we go on

[42:31] pretty regularly. You just heard Chief

[42:32] Sanderson say every year we go on brush

[42:34] fires and that's just once related to

[42:36] the 4th of July. So, we go on these

[42:39] wildland fires every single year. And

[42:40] typically, I'm not going to sell you

[42:42] guys war stories like we're not going on

[42:44] the range fire here in ORM jurisdiction

[42:46] every year, but it is a special type of

[42:50] firefighting. Um, it's not in a box.

[42:53] Structure fires are in a box and we just

[42:55] got to put it out as fast as we can and

[42:57] hopefully keep it to that box. A

[42:59] wildland fire, the earth is its box,

[43:02] right? Um, so there's some specialty

[43:04] training that comes with that. And now

[43:07] we're 100% certified top to bottom. The

[43:09] entire fire department from Chief

[43:10] Sanderson down to our newest hire.

[43:12] Everybody is a certified wildland

[43:14] firefighter. Now, um, that that comes

[43:16] from the support from Chief Sanderson.

[43:18] He came in at the time we were going

[43:20] through we were just going to do it

[43:21] through attrition that everybody 5 years

[43:23] and under was required to and we were

[43:25] going to slowly get to 100% and Chief

[43:27] Sanderson saw the benefit and just said

[43:29] nope we're going to we're going to make

[43:30] that 100%. And it's been we've seen the

[43:32] benefits from that. Uh we talked about

[43:34] the cost insurance that positive PR that

[43:37] when we had the Palis a fire in Los

[43:39] Angeles in January last year. Um again

[43:43] being a citizen of war and being able to

[43:44] talk to my neighbors and the sense of

[43:46] pride that they had that hey yeah my

[43:48] fire department is out there and helping

[43:51] the the citizens of Los Angeles and

[43:53] their extreme like national historic

[43:57] event. we're there helping and that's

[43:59] that that to me is a really cool

[44:01] opportunity to represent our city and do

[44:03] that. Um the the revenue that was talked

[44:06] about with Chief Hurst and uh the morale

[44:10] like the guys are able to to get

[44:12] overtime at no financial burden to the

[44:15] city because while we're on these fires

[44:17] uh we're able to bill our hours directly

[44:19] to the incident and give guys the

[44:22] opportunity to make a little bit of

[44:23] overtime um and the fire is paying for

[44:26] paying that bill. So, we talked about

[44:28] the safety aspect a little bit. Um, the

[44:31] you see here a 747 dropping retardant.

[44:34] This is uh the reason I put up this

[44:35] photo is because um I don't know if you

[44:38] guys heard in uh 2018 of Battalion Chief

[44:42] Matt Burchette. He died on one of these

[44:44] deployments. He's from Draper City Fire

[44:46] Department. He was actually um my

[44:49] captain when I was a fire intern uh

[44:52] fresh out of uh the recruit academy and

[44:56] he went on this deployment to California

[44:59] and he was working around these large

[45:02] aircraft and uh it was a tragic incident

[45:06] and he he actually died because of a

[45:09] retardant drop hit a tree and the tree

[45:11] came down and crushed him. So, I can't I

[45:14] can't stress enough the importance of

[45:16] the safety aspect that comes with

[45:18] knowing what you're doing on these

[45:20] wildland incidents. He was dialed and he

[45:22] ended up in a situation that he was

[45:24] because he was trying to make sure that

[45:25] his men weren't on the line when that

[45:27] came through. Um, but because we have

[45:31] members of the department that have

[45:32] experience talking to these aircraft,

[45:35] knowing how far away they need to be,

[45:37] knowing what they need to do, we're

[45:38] going to operate in a much safer manner.

[45:40] Um, and we've got we've got these

[45:42] subject matter experts now, right? Um,

[45:47] another huge point to me is the working

[45:49] relationships that we're able to

[45:52] establish with our partners at the state

[45:54] of Utah. Um, just this last deployment,

[45:58] it was made up primarily of people from

[46:00] the state of Utah, from the the Division

[46:03] of Natural Resources, Forestry, Fire,

[46:04] and State Lands. and we've entered into

[46:07] agreements with them in the past where

[46:08] they've put on chainsaw classes for us.

[46:11] They've helped us um gain gain these

[46:14] experiences that we need and in return

[46:16] we're able to if they have seasonal

[46:19] firefighters that want to become career

[46:21] structural firefighters, we now have

[46:23] that relationship and they can come here

[46:25] and we know that they're good,

[46:27] hardworking people that have strong work

[46:29] ethic and they're going to fit in well

[46:30] with our culture. So,

[46:33] over the last eight seasons, we've been

[46:35] able to deploy all over the western

[46:37] United States and even one all the way

[46:39] over to Kansas, as you can see. Um, and

[46:42] that number is just going to continue to

[46:43] grow. Um, we've gone on over 25

[46:45] deployments. Like I said, we've gained

[46:47] lots of qualifications and it's been

[46:49] just been uh really cool to to see the

[46:52] Western United States to help on these

[46:54] things and and represent this the city

[46:56] of ORM um in that that capacity. So,

[47:01] I'll talk lastly just about uh this most

[47:03] recent task force like Chief Hurst said,

[47:06] they stood this up because of the

[47:08] significant wildland uh threat that the

[47:10] state of Utah has right now. You guys

[47:12] might look at a juniper tree and think

[47:14] that that's just a desert pine tree and

[47:16] I look at it as lightning in a bottle.

[47:18] Those things are ready to burn and when

[47:20] they burn it is a show. The oil that are

[47:24] that's in those things, it's like a

[47:25] house is on fire but it's a tree. um and

[47:28] the embers that it throws. It's just

[47:30] it's uh it's wild out there this year.

[47:32] I'll say that. Um so they they stood up

[47:34] this task force. We did one day of

[47:37] staging in Provo waiting for a large

[47:39] enough incident that local resources

[47:42] weren't able to tackle it. And after a

[47:45] single day, we got the phone call and we

[47:47] went to the Iron Fire just outside of

[47:49] Eureka. We were some of the first

[47:50] resources there within the first couple

[47:52] hours of it starting. And uh like Chief

[47:55] Hurst said, in that first operational

[47:57] period is when the city of Eureka was

[47:59] getting evacuated and we were able to

[48:02] tactically reposition ourselves to that

[48:05] side of the fire and uh

[48:08] I was in a very unique situation where I

[48:10] come from the structure world, but I was

[48:12] there in a wildland capacity. Um I had

[48:16] my wildland radio and I had my structure

[48:17] radio. So, I was able to talk to the

[48:19] volunteer fire departments and I was

[48:21] able to talk to our federal partners and

[48:24] kind of act as that liaison and kind of

[48:26] herd the cats, if you will, and and make

[48:28] some things happen. And I'm I'm

[48:29] confident that this group of individuals

[48:31] right here is the reason why we didn't

[48:34] lose homes in the town of Eureka that

[48:36] night. So, it was a it was a really cool

[48:37] experience. Um really really humbling to

[48:41] be able to see that kind of uh force of

[48:46] nature come down and and see these

[48:47] firemen make a stand. It was really

[48:48] cool. We had 40 mph winds switching

[48:52] directions on us and we threw a Hail

[48:55] Mary and we poured fire in people's

[48:56] backyards and it worked. So

[48:59] >> firemen starting fires.

[49:01] >> That's what they love to do.

[49:02] >> So yeah, [laughter]

[49:04] >> it works. It works. And I uh I've got a

[49:06] video here that I'm going to show you

[49:07] guys. It's just a couple minutes just

[49:09] highlighting some of the the efforts of

[49:12] the men on that that deployment and uh

[49:14] then if you guys have any questions for

[49:16] me.

[49:17] >> Thank you.

[49:22] » Sounds

[49:26] we got to get

[49:27] >> have Captain Hickman's angry music.

[49:29] [laughter]

[49:30] >> It's amazing.

[49:31] >> We know how to get the sound going

[49:32] sound.

[49:42] It's one of the hardest parts is picking

[49:43] the right song.

[49:47] » That's the tone.

[49:51] » Set them up and just build it on the

[49:52] audio.

[49:53] >> I'll step back.

[49:55] [laughter]

[49:57] » You have a song going through your head

[49:58] while you're out there doing this.

[50:00] You're like, "Okay, [laughter]

[50:02] >> those songs can't be put in this

[50:04] council. [laughter]

[50:08] against the machine. All those kind of

[50:12] >> was talking very

[50:17] protective. That's right.

[50:19] >> Hi ho. Hi ho.

[50:27] » Yeah, just put on the computer

[50:28] >> so you can sing the song that's supposed

[50:30] to go with this.

[50:31] >> It's a lot of instruments. [laughter]

[50:34] Last year was fun.

[50:37] >> No, I wanted

[50:40] you

[50:59] Grand

[51:41] That's

[51:44] better.

[52:07] body position.

[52:15] Are you going to think about

[52:35] the high

[52:53] Okay.

[53:03] So,

[53:24] » thanks for your time. I appreciate again

[53:26] you guys' support and being able to come

[53:28] in here and just advocate for the work

[53:30] you guys do out there and uh uh we just

[53:34] really appreciate the the opportunity to

[53:36] represent Orum out there. You guys uh

[53:38] have any questions for for me or for

[53:40] Chief First?

[53:41] >> So I have a question but first I want to

[53:43] say yeah impressive, right? I mean I'm

[53:45] like you're walking towards that thing.

[53:47] Rest of us are running away. So thank

[53:49] you so much. Um I uh when I grew up

[53:54] there were two of Heber um a neighbor of

[53:57] mine was a firefighter that was killed

[53:58] in a wildland fire. So it was I just

[54:02] every time I hear of these fires I think

[54:05] of you guys. So thank you for that um

[54:09] risk that you put your yourselves in for

[54:12] you know property really um for people's

[54:17] you know valuables. But anyway, so my

[54:20] question I'm kind of curious those that

[54:22] big equipment, where does that come

[54:25] from? How do you get that? Or is

[54:27] >> uh the state of Utah uh owns and

[54:29] operates that dozer specifically, but

[54:32] there's a the wildland world is full of

[54:35] uh so it's kind of tiered. There's

[54:36] federal, there's state, there's

[54:39] cooperators, which is us, and then

[54:41] there's contractors. So, the feds and

[54:43] the state have a lot of heavy equipment

[54:45] that they purchase specifically for

[54:47] wildland firefighting. Um, there are

[54:49] some cities that offer up their heavy

[54:51] equipment. I've actually spoken with uh

[54:53] Director Shery about us potentially

[54:55] getting into that um in the future

[54:57] utilizing our heavy equipment to to

[54:59] assist on these type of things, but a

[55:01] lot of it is primarily done by

[55:03] contractors. So people that own like an

[55:06] excavation business, they sign a

[55:08] contract with the federal government to

[55:10] utilize their equipment in in building

[55:13] these uh wildland fire control lines.

[55:16] >> Yeah.

[55:18] >> I just I want to say thank you, but I

[55:21] feel like that doesn't convey what the

[55:24] appreciation

[55:26] that I think we have. I said, "One of my

[55:28] earliest childhood memories around

[55:30] wildland fires, growing up in a canyon

[55:32] outside of Santa Barbara, California,

[55:34] and watching my dad on the roof with the

[55:36] hose and going up the road and seeing

[55:39] the half of the ravines on fire, just

[55:41] all these different things. We we had

[55:43] actually moved by the time the fire a

[55:46] fire actually burned down the house that

[55:47] we we lived in. But yes, there's just

[55:52] Thank you. Thank you for putting your life on liberty lives on the line

[55:58] to help protect our communities and

[56:02] I appreciate what what you do. Thank

[56:03] you. Thank you. Appreciate your support.

[56:07] >> We're just proud of you. We're really

[56:08] proud of you. And my Chief Sanderson had

[56:10] sent some of those videos via email and

[56:12] I had to all my sons in say you guys

[56:14] come look at this and they were proud of

[56:15] you and we just we're proud that you're

[56:16] representing Warren.

[56:17] >> Yes. Yes.

[56:21] Multiple meetings I've talked with Bren

[56:23] about budget expansion requests because

[56:25] I see it coming. One of those

[56:26] helicopters

[56:29] structures don't load the water. Fire's

[56:32] out.

[56:33] >> As long as the mayor can push the

[56:34] button,

[56:36] >> just drop the water. Right.

[56:38] >> Go ahead and keep requesting, chief.

[56:42] You're allowed to want. That's right.

[56:45] Thanks so much.

[56:46] >> Thank you.

[56:47] >> Thanks you guys.

[56:50] All right, next item on the agenda.

[56:54] >> Canal. I think this is for the next one.

[56:57] >> Okay, so we're doing the canal update

[56:58] next.

[56:59] >> Yeah, we're doing the canal update next.

[57:00] I don't have a slideshow because killed

[57:03] it.

[57:03] >> I sent it to the fire department. They

[57:05] lifted my music from it. [laughter]

[57:11] » So

[57:12] that would be the only thing that make

[57:14] the canal more interesting is that

[57:16] music.

[57:19] Now the canal. So as you know the canal

[57:22] uh we have uh gotten a grant from MAG

[57:26] and we have now issued a contract to

[57:31] methods studio and they're helping us go

[57:34] through it. We have our first meeting

[57:36] with them tomorrow be the scoping uh

[57:40] tomorrow where we'll set out the agenda

[57:42] and time frames and things like that. So

[57:45] I know you're getting lots of questions.

[57:47] I know you're getting lots of emails, so

[57:49] we wanted to come in and quickly give

[57:51] you that little heads up about where we

[57:54] are. Once we have a schedule and we're

[57:57] looking at things, we'll come back and

[58:00] let you know uh the schedule of how

[58:02] we'll go about it.

[58:04] >> Just to clarify, you said Method

[58:06] Studios.

[58:07] >> Oh, Methods,

[58:10] >> which is a planning for Method Studios,

[58:12] our architect on this building.

[58:14] >> I thought, wow,

[58:16] I just said

[58:18] >> thank you.

[58:19] >> Have water features

[58:22] elevator.

[58:24] >> It is a water feature facility.

[58:27] [laughter]

[58:28] >> No. So, so then as residents have

[58:32] questions at this point, it would still

[58:34] be appropriate to send them to you until

[58:36] method is going.

[58:38] >> Yeah. Until we get them going. Uh one of

[58:41] the the major things and what we want to

[58:43] focus on uh primarily at the beginning

[58:46] is outreach and we've had lots of people

[58:49] contact us. Thank you for forwarding

[58:52] emails to you. We're we're keeping track

[58:54] of all of those people. We want to uh

[58:58] work with uh the residents as much as

[59:02] possible especially those who abut the

[59:05] canal. And I've talked to many many

[59:08] people and

[59:10] uh you know, no surprise, the farther

[59:13] away from the canal you are, the more in

[59:16] favor of it you you tend to be. The

[59:19] closer to the canal, the the greater

[59:22] your uh level of uncomfortableness and

[59:26] in the questions that you have. So,

[59:28] we're trying to look at getting some

[59:30] really good public information out uh

[59:33] rather than just anecdotally what we

[59:36] have because I' I've heard everything

[59:39] from this is the greatest thing that

[59:41] could ever happened to ORM. Of course,

[59:42] we should do it to this is the worst

[59:44] thing that could ever happen to ORM. Of

[59:46] course, we shouldn't and everything in

[59:49] between. So, we're excited and uh we'll

[59:53] keep methods studio away and we'll just

[59:55] work with them.

[59:57] What's your timeline of the completed?

[59:59] >> We're I'm hoping to have something by

[1:00:01] the end of this year that the council

[1:00:03] can review this year to information

[1:00:07] back, especially the public outreach

[1:00:09] because part of this uh I if if there's

[1:00:14] if early on

[1:00:16] uh it the community support is just

[1:00:19] let's say overwhelming, that can really

[1:00:22] shape how and what we would do from

[1:00:24] there. if the community uh was

[1:00:27] overwhelmingly against something like

[1:00:30] this and it just wasn't going to happen.

[1:00:32] The sooner we can find that out the

[1:00:34] better um in in going through that lots

[1:00:37] of people are very interested in this.

[1:00:39] >> Okay. So I'm sorry I need to clarify

[1:00:41] this then by the end of the year we'll

[1:00:44] have a completed report or by the end of

[1:00:47] the year you want to be finished with

[1:00:48] the community outreach. Uh certainly by

[1:00:50] the end of the year we'll be finished

[1:00:52] with uh community outreach and we will

[1:00:54] have a good draft of a report. I don't

[1:00:57] know that it'd be final and there still

[1:00:59] may be some tweaking to do on it, but at

[1:01:02] least by the end of the year, uh I want

[1:01:05] to be able to give the council as much

[1:01:07] information as we can on the support, uh

[1:01:12] the issues, the things that the

[1:01:15] community is concerned about and

[1:01:19] what we can or cannot do with some of

[1:01:21] these things. It's a it's a very

[1:01:23] complicated deal. Uh there are property

[1:01:26] issues, there's feasibility issues,

[1:01:30] there's just the the desire to have it

[1:01:32] whether or not issues. So

[1:01:37] » when the Murdoch Canal Trail went in,

[1:01:40] was there a lot of community

[1:01:44] uh hesitation on building of that or was

[1:01:47] there pretty good support? I don't

[1:01:50] remember

[1:01:53] what that was like.

[1:01:54] I was in Lehi at the time and there was

[1:01:56] a lot of concern.

[1:01:59] >> So I'm wondering if reaching out to

[1:02:01] people who backed the Murdoch Canal

[1:02:03] Trail and having their perspective of what the trail has

[1:02:10] been like can be helpful

[1:02:14] for those who are facing the a

[1:02:17] possibility of that in I guess. Yeah,

[1:02:21] the Murdoch canal and not being in ORM

[1:02:23] at the time and Chris was and he can

[1:02:26] jump in here in a second usually on

[1:02:29] projects like this

[1:02:31] um the farther away from the canal the

[1:02:35] less of a direct impact it has on you.

[1:02:37] So it tends to be a little easier for

[1:02:40] people to rally around doing something

[1:02:44] as you're right next to the canal.

[1:02:47] the personal impact to your property and

[1:02:50] that that can be a difficult thing and a

[1:02:52] lot of concerns. Uh I think also

[1:02:56] underlying the the canal issue. Uh the

[1:03:00] property issues were a little different

[1:03:02] than what we're facing now.

[1:03:03] >> That's that was what I was going to say

[1:03:04] was that the the pipe the canal was

[1:03:07] going to be piped anyway. That was that

[1:03:11] was going to be done. the issue ended up

[1:03:14] being

[1:03:16] what's going to be what's going to

[1:03:18] happen on top of the where the pipe is.

[1:03:22] And so I say Chris, I remember there was

[1:03:24] some opposition

[1:03:27] >> to it and but there was also a lot of

[1:03:29] support. There's a lot of uncertainty

[1:03:32] that you

[1:03:33] >> So the Murdoch Canal has a typical

[1:03:36] right-of-way cross-section of about 100

[1:03:38] ft and there was a it was federally

[1:03:41] owned and there was a title transfer

[1:03:43] that took place around 15 years ago or

[1:03:45] so and as a result they put in a pipe

[1:03:49] that was 110 in diameter to to be able

[1:03:52] to provide I think 600 cfs of flow

[1:03:54] there. The major concerns from the

[1:03:56] property owners were a couple different

[1:03:58] ones. One was rightaway lines. Some

[1:04:01] people had improvements that weren't on

[1:04:03] their property. So, those all had to be

[1:04:05] resolved and so they had to clearly

[1:04:08] define where those were. And there are

[1:04:09] some property line boundary line

[1:04:11] adjustments. But also, as you look at

[1:04:13] the cross-section from east to west, the

[1:04:15] west side in many cases is much lower

[1:04:18] than the east side. And then you could

[1:04:20] actually visit or you could actually see

[1:04:22] down and view what's going on in the

[1:04:24] neighbor's yard or look in their window

[1:04:27] right from the trail. So there was a lot

[1:04:28] of privacy concerns. Um there were

[1:04:30] concerns about uh by neighbors of just

[1:04:33] noise, general activation of that area.

[1:04:36] Um it was it was uh no trespassing signs

[1:04:40] were everywhere on that prior to that

[1:04:41] point, but now they opened it up and

[1:04:43] programmed it to recreational activity.

[1:04:46] So some were okay with it, some were

[1:04:48] not. Um generally I think there was

[1:04:50] probably some pretty positive support in

[1:04:52] part because it was so wide. The rideway

[1:04:55] was so wide. Provo Bench Canal and North

[1:04:57] Union Canal, the rideway is anywhere

[1:04:59] from maybe six feet to 20 feet in width.

[1:05:03] >> So it's much tighter.

[1:05:06] >> So the trail in Highland, Sierra Hills

[1:05:09] and Highland.

[1:05:10] >> Which trail?

[1:05:11] >> Narrow, right?

[1:05:12] >> Which one?

[1:05:13] >> Is it the Murdoch Canal Trail that

[1:05:14] continues that goes to to the Jordan

[1:05:16] River?

[1:05:16] >> Yeah. Yes. So how would our can we look

[1:05:20] at how comparatively those neighbors to

[1:05:23] Crystal's point the reception and and I

[1:05:26] mean that's been 35 years right 30 years

[1:05:30] that they

[1:05:31] >> canal is 2015ish

[1:05:33] >> the the ones going through where they

[1:05:35] continued it through Highland and Cedar

[1:05:37] Hills

[1:05:38] >> I think the W through there is similar

[1:05:39] to here

[1:05:40] >> maybe 20 or so

[1:05:41] >> we biked that route a number of times

[1:05:44] the only place where it kind of goes

[1:05:46] away is when you get to uh uh Highland

[1:05:49] Glenn Park.

[1:05:51] Once you come down into that little

[1:05:53] valley, the trail just it's not really

[1:05:56] on the canal anymore. You have to wind

[1:05:58] your way through and then back on city

[1:05:59] streets.

[1:05:59] >> Yeah. And I stand corrected. You're

[1:06:01] right. It was when the Murdoch Canal

[1:06:02] Trail went when they were doing all that that I mean, didn't Highland

[1:06:06] embrace that and they actually put it

[1:06:08] through subdivisions. Um they did.

[1:06:11] >> Yeah.

[1:06:13] wanted it to weave through homes,

[1:06:14] through neighborhoods, and kind of have

[1:06:16] that kind of activity. What was the I'd

[1:06:19] just be curious to know how that all

[1:06:21] ended up, you know, the perception, the how people feel.

[1:06:25] >> I think there's a lot of fear of the

[1:06:26] unknown and if we can help answer some

[1:06:29] of that for some residents to say, okay,

[1:06:32] here's where it's been done before and

[1:06:34] how it turned out,

[1:06:37] it could be helpful. One of the reasons

[1:06:40] we pick methods is uh in their uh

[1:06:44] response to the request for proposals,

[1:06:46] they list people and qualifications or

[1:06:50] experience in dealing with these issues

[1:06:52] and a couple of them uh were very

[1:06:55] involved with the Murdoch and have a

[1:06:58] real good history and and worked on it

[1:07:01] quite a bit and we thought that

[1:07:03] experience would be invaluable for us

[1:07:05] here since we'll be facing similar type

[1:07:08] of issues.

[1:07:09] >> One one of them actually led the project

[1:07:11] Murdoch Canal project. So

[1:07:14] >> the most significant difference is that

[1:07:17] um Murdoch Canal right away was owned by

[1:07:21] that private association.

[1:07:24] So I I think uh that's wonderful and I think I think Method is going to

[1:07:29] do a great job. I think it shouldn't be

[1:07:32] too difficult to ask them of if there's

[1:07:34] other narrower canals

[1:07:37] and and share examples of how that's

[1:07:41] turned out to be

[1:07:43] well used and activated and low crime

[1:07:46] and and a you know an overall benefit to

[1:07:50] the cities where those are located. just

[1:07:53] I think we do a really good job of

[1:07:54] showing comparative analysis

[1:07:57] and Murdoch Canal is obviously a great

[1:07:59] data point, but there's probably a

[1:08:01] couple others we could find around the

[1:08:02] state that that could ease concerns. And

[1:08:06] one of the reasons for bringing this to

[1:08:08] you tonight, even though we're having

[1:08:11] the scoping meeting tomorrow, is so that

[1:08:13] we can relay to them the concerns that

[1:08:17] the council's hearing and the ideas that

[1:08:21] uh we should keep in mind as we go

[1:08:23] through the process. So, this is very

[1:08:25] helpful for me. And one thing that we

[1:08:27] hear a lot of too is um

[1:08:31] there there's there's already activity

[1:08:33] in the canal now. There always has been,

[1:08:37] but concern of what's happening there

[1:08:40] now

[1:08:42] and the fear being um that that's just

[1:08:45] going to escalate if that's opened up to

[1:08:47] a trail.

[1:08:48] Um I remember when we put the pickle

[1:08:50] ball courts at Sharon Park and how crime

[1:08:53] went down

[1:08:55] uh significantly. Um, and so I'm

[1:08:58] wondering if there's any data

[1:09:00] um that could be found that would

[1:09:03] compare,

[1:09:05] you know, just this dead space with no

[1:09:07] eyes on it to a public trail where

[1:09:11] people are coming and going and and if

[1:09:14] that in fact would have a positive

[1:09:15] effect on on

[1:09:19] >> Yeah, that's a great idea. All these are

[1:09:22] great ideas that I'll make sure we talk

[1:09:24] about in our meeting tomorrow. Uh

[1:09:27] because

[1:09:29] things like that, that's one of the

[1:09:31] things I hear and I and I completely

[1:09:34] understand people's concern. Uh now from

[1:09:38] my chain leak fence in my backyard,

[1:09:40] there's going to be a whole bunch of

[1:09:42] people. What does that mean for me? And

[1:09:44] how is that going to work? And

[1:09:46] [clears throat] the concerns and and

[1:09:48] they're real and legitimate.

[1:09:52] to cast a wide net to find examples and

[1:09:56] answers.

[1:10:00] » Thank you.

[1:10:02] >> Right, you're up for the next item for

[1:10:03] the next 15 minutes on our detached

[1:10:05] accessory dwelling units update.

[1:10:07] >> Okay, detached accessory dwelling units.

[1:10:10] Probably saying, why are we doing this?

[1:10:14] State law. States's making us do this.

[1:10:17] Uh the state passed a new law and by

[1:10:20] October 1st we have to have an ordinance

[1:10:23] that allows detached accessory dwelling

[1:10:27] units on at least lots that are 11,000

[1:10:31] square ft or larger. So we have to go

[1:10:35] through this process. Um our timeline's

[1:10:39] fairly short. State law has a few things

[1:10:42] that we have to do. Uh it says get it

[1:10:46] tells us of some things that we can't do

[1:10:48] and then it's silent on some regulations

[1:10:51] that we think we ought to put in. And so

[1:10:55] this just shows you we're taking this to

[1:10:57] planning commission uh July 15th. They

[1:11:00] also have a meeting on August 5th. I

[1:11:04] want to be done with planning commission

[1:11:06] and have told them this is their

[1:11:08] deadline to make any recommendations to

[1:11:11] the council because now it gives uh the

[1:11:14] council August 11th, September 8th, and

[1:11:17] September 22nd to look at and deal with

[1:11:21] an ordinance.

[1:11:22] >> Oh, go ahead.

[1:11:23] >> Oh, no. Go ahead.

[1:11:24] >> The council the Utah League of Cities

[1:11:25] and Towns is doing a webinar tomorrow on

[1:11:27] this,

[1:11:29] just so you know. Did everyone get the

[1:11:32] emailed link from

[1:11:33] >> I didn't know because you were talking

[1:11:34] about dates and that's and then talking

[1:11:36] about tomorrow and that that webinar is

[1:11:38] tomorrow. So tomorrow at noon

[1:11:40] >> at noon so I don't know if you want to

[1:11:42] tune in and

[1:11:44] >> I don't know I haven't it's probably on

[1:11:46] my calendar. I have half the time on my

[1:11:50] calendar.

[1:11:50] >> I do what my calendar says.

[1:11:53] >> So anyway I'm sorry to interrupt.

[1:11:55] >> No. And so what we've done is since if

[1:11:58] we do nothing then we have a state law

[1:12:01] that says we have to allow things and an

[1:12:04] applicant could come in and say you have

[1:12:05] to do this and then there might be areas

[1:12:08] that we could put in for instance what

[1:12:10] are the setbacks state law silent on

[1:12:12] that. So what we're doing is I had uh uh

[1:12:18] the the planning uh division we sat down

[1:12:21] and kind of looked at it and said okay

[1:12:24] what's the the bare uh minimum that we

[1:12:28] need to have in here uh in the ordinance

[1:12:32] and then it's certainly something it's just a place to start for the

[1:12:36] council and the planning commission but

[1:12:38] if the setbacks are not enough that we

[1:12:42] put in the draft ordinance then then you

[1:12:45] know we need to increase those but we

[1:12:47] put in what we thought the minimum

[1:12:49] absolutely should be. So there's a few

[1:12:51] things like that. So in this we have to

[1:12:55] uh they have to comply with building

[1:12:58] codes all of that. Um, we have to allow

[1:13:02] if say somebody has a detached garage,

[1:13:05] we have to allow that to be converted.

[1:13:07] Uh, in but only if it meets the right

[1:13:11] codes and setbacks and things like that.

[1:13:15] Um,

[1:13:16] >> now can I just say I had one near me

[1:13:17] they found that when someone bought the

[1:13:20] property that someone had put people in

[1:13:22] a detached garage and put the sewer in

[1:13:24] the ground, just dug a hole.

[1:13:27] >> So, we're going to be inspecting all

[1:13:29] these. Oh yeah, absolutely.

[1:13:30] >> Be tight control right now.

[1:13:32] >> Yep. And and we're we're going to put in

[1:13:35] we so uh what we can't do so well on

[1:13:41] this we have to allow it. Somebody's got

[1:13:43] a detached garage and it it meets other

[1:13:46] issues. We would have to allow that. One

[1:13:49] thing that we can't do is we can't make

[1:13:51] it go through a conditional use process.

[1:13:54] Uh state law says we can't do that. Um

[1:13:58] the second one this uh requires setbacks

[1:14:01] from property lines or from a detached

[1:14:04] dwelling that make it unreasonably

[1:14:06] difficult.

[1:14:08] And I hate language like that because I

[1:14:11] don't necessarily know what

[1:14:13] unreasonably. So we're trying to look at

[1:14:15] things where we can have good common

[1:14:17] sense uh regulation that protects

[1:14:21] existing neighborhoods while meeting

[1:14:23] state law requirements. Um, and uh, we

[1:14:28] can't require more than two

[1:14:31] on-site parking spots

[1:14:34] for an ADU that's 650 ft or bigger. Uh,

[1:14:38] and we can't require more than one on

[1:14:41] site for one that's less than 650 ft.

[1:14:47] And we have uh we can't the state law requirements

[1:14:54] and we talked a little bit about those

[1:14:56] when we dealt with the building height

[1:14:58] and the new uh building envelope within

[1:15:02] which you can build. There are certain

[1:15:04] elements state law will not allow us to

[1:15:06] regulate. those same requirements apply

[1:15:09] to these detached ADUs.

[1:15:14] And uh but what we can is uh we can

[1:15:21] require that they comply with our lot

[1:15:23] coverage and things like that. That's why the state says you have to

[1:15:28] allow it on 11,000 square feet. We don't

[1:15:31] think we even though the state law would

[1:15:34] allow us to go less than that. We don't

[1:15:36] think we should. We think we ought to

[1:15:38] start with 11,000 square foot lots, keep

[1:15:42] it on that and see how this goes. We

[1:15:44] want to be very careful and cautious in

[1:15:47] our approach and incremental.

[1:15:50] Um, and we can require it to be

[1:15:54] consistent with the main dwelling unit

[1:15:57] and uh we can require that it uh not be

[1:16:02] larger than the primary dwelling unit or

[1:16:05] these uh or in easements, things like

[1:16:09] that that would really interfere

[1:16:12] uh with it uh existing easements and

[1:16:15] things that we do in a lot. We're not

[1:16:17] going to allow them in the front yard.

[1:16:19] They're going to have to be packed

[1:16:21] behind the front yard, set back, and

[1:16:24] they cannot be uh we don't want them to

[1:16:28] be rented for less than 90 consecutive

[1:16:30] days. That if these are accessory

[1:16:33] dwelling units, they are not short-term

[1:16:36] rentals. And we want to make that really

[1:16:38] clear in the ordinance.

[1:16:41] Whereas, if we do nothing and don't

[1:16:44] create an ordinance, there is an

[1:16:46] argument that somebody could say, "Oh,

[1:16:48] if you allow short-term rentals, I could

[1:16:50] use this as a short-term rental."

[1:16:54] And uh

[1:16:57] we can go in and if they take out

[1:16:59] parking to put it in, they have to

[1:17:01] replace the parking. You've got to have

[1:17:04] adequate utilities. We'll be looking at

[1:17:06] that on a case-byase basis.

[1:17:09] uh they have to hook up uh and have the

[1:17:14] uh the capacity for location utilities

[1:17:19] and there's only one whether it's

[1:17:22] detached or it's attached in the home.

[1:17:26] You don't end up with three units.

[1:17:30] And I think that's it. That's it.

[1:17:34] So this is just to I know some of you

[1:17:36] are very familiar with this. We do have

[1:17:39] a short time frame. Um, if we were doing

[1:17:43] this, uh, if we didn't have the short

[1:17:45] time frame that was mandated by state

[1:17:47] law putting these requirements on us,

[1:17:50] uh, we would approach this very

[1:17:52] differently. We'd have a different

[1:17:54] conversation up here and take more time

[1:17:56] to really talk about things and think

[1:17:58] about it and go through the process, but

[1:18:01] we're kind of under the gun with this.

[1:18:02] So, just be aware. Um, I'm not

[1:18:06] necessarily

[1:18:08] tonight looking for a lot of feedback.

[1:18:11] This is just an introduction. And Jared

[1:18:13] sent out to you last week a copy of the

[1:18:17] ordinance. So, you're probably

[1:18:18] wondering, why the heck do I have this

[1:18:20] ordinance? And this is now to give you

[1:18:23] that context why you have it, what's

[1:18:25] going on with it, and be thinking about

[1:18:27] it so that as we come in uh later on in uh August and September that we can

[1:18:36] have those conversations and I would

[1:18:38] imagine we'll want to have another uh

[1:18:41] work session where we can go over maybe

[1:18:44] in more detail exactly how this works

[1:18:47] and uh what an ordinance would do and

[1:18:50] not to we want to make sure you really

[1:18:53] understand and go in to it with your

[1:18:55] eyes wide open on this.

[1:18:57] >> Appreciate it. Um this kind of the heads

[1:19:00] up introduction as the planning

[1:19:02] commission will be tackling this

[1:19:04] tomorrow.

[1:19:05] >> Yes. And they'll be looking at it

[1:19:07] tomorrow. And again, I've told them we

[1:19:10] want uh planning commission's work to be

[1:19:12] done by August 5th so that the council

[1:19:14] has plenty of time come in and think

[1:19:17] about this and look at it.

[1:19:19] Um Gary asking for a friend if I wanted

[1:19:22] to construct a detached catio

[1:19:26] >> is that

[1:19:28] >> and I do that is that possible or

[1:19:30] >> Oh absolutely just do it

[1:19:34] >> being the friend

[1:19:36] [laughter]

[1:19:37] >> I guess dwelling is for people so I

[1:19:39] guess

[1:19:39] >> okay okay I don't know but that's that's

[1:19:41] >> some people feel like their cats are

[1:19:43] like people [laughter]

[1:19:46] » admit to

[1:19:48] Your lot your lot's over 11,000.

[1:19:52] >> It might be close. Yeah,

[1:19:55] >> mine's over 11,000. So

[1:19:57] >> Oh, no. I I just appreciate you and

[1:20:00] staff jumping on this super quickly.

[1:20:02] >> Thank you.

[1:20:04] >> It's been coming quickly and fast and

[1:20:09] >> a lot from the state. So fact that you

[1:20:11] put this much together is is really

[1:20:13] impressive. So thank you.

[1:20:15] >> Thank you. Just a quick question. I

[1:20:17] mean, we have no idea what what the

[1:20:19] response is going to be to this people

[1:20:21] actually doing it, but does that

[1:20:24] >> cause you any heartburn, Chris, with

[1:20:25] infrastructure and pipes and

[1:20:28] >> it's a small impact on utilities

[1:20:33] for single family dwelling.

[1:20:35] >> If we have lots of them popping up all

[1:20:38] over,

[1:20:40] >> I mean, if we double number of units

[1:20:42] throughout the city, then that would be

[1:20:43] a concern.

[1:20:45] Don't see that happening.

[1:20:48] >> Lots this size of normal.

[1:20:50] >> Most of them are 8,000 or smaller.

[1:20:51] >> Yeah. And with the 11,000 square ft and

[1:20:56] just looking at a kind of a normal size

[1:20:58] home on 10 11,000 square ft, it would be

[1:21:02] hard

[1:21:03] uh to situate a 650 700 square foot

[1:21:09] detached unit and still have a

[1:21:12] functioning area. And when you get down

[1:21:14] to 8,000 square ft, boy, that's really

[1:21:18] difficult. Uh I know some communities

[1:21:21] have come in and they're embracing this

[1:21:25] type of thing and I'm not suggesting

[1:21:27] uh we do this but if the community

[1:21:31] wanted to do something what what they

[1:21:33] are doing or thinking about doing is

[1:21:36] they have kind of a standard offtheshelf

[1:21:40] couple of plans that if you come in and

[1:21:44] do it it's very easy. It's been

[1:21:46] pre-looked at by public works,

[1:21:48] pre-looked at by building inspection,

[1:21:51] and it helps people quickly go through

[1:21:53] that process. It gets cited in an

[1:21:55] appropriate place. And if we were to do

[1:21:58] anything like that, again,

[1:22:01] you know that planning, half of planning

[1:22:05] is the law of unintended consequences.

[1:22:07] You come in and you do something. I I

[1:22:10] like the approach of let's see how many

[1:22:12] people come in on 11,000 foot lots. See

[1:22:16] what the impact is. See what the issues

[1:22:18] are and then we can have a conversation

[1:22:21] later on whether it makes sense to do

[1:22:24] something different.

[1:22:27] >> So the draft ordinance that you sent us

[1:22:29] because it's not in the packet, right?

[1:22:30] So but on July 8th, has that changed

[1:22:33] since where you are today? No.

[1:22:35] >> Presentation. These are all

[1:22:38] >> the same. Yes, the the these these are

[1:22:40] all the same. It hasn't changed.

[1:22:43] >> Um so you're you're seeing what planning

[1:22:46] commission's seeing. You're all seeing

[1:22:47] it together. Planning commission any

[1:22:49] changes that they'll get will make sure

[1:22:52] that you know what's different from and

[1:22:56] that's why we want to have several

[1:22:57] meetings. I think this is such an

[1:23:00] important [clears throat] issue. I'd

[1:23:01] like to have, you know, at least one if

[1:23:04] not two work meetings before it's on any

[1:23:07] sort of action meeting so that we can go

[1:23:09] through it, really understand it. And again, as staff, what we've tried to

[1:23:14] do is take what state law mandating that

[1:23:16] we do, put it into ordinance form, and

[1:23:20] then where it's silent, but we think

[1:23:22] that silence creates a problem for us,

[1:23:25] put in a standard that we think is the

[1:23:27] bare minimum that we should have as a

[1:23:29] city. We wouldn't want to see anything

[1:23:31] less. And the the best example of that

[1:23:34] would be the setbacks that have those

[1:23:36] setbacks. You could go less. I would

[1:23:39] suggest you don't, but the council

[1:23:42] could.

[1:23:44] >> Thank you. Will you express our

[1:23:45] appreciation to the planning commission

[1:23:47] for them to them for looking at this and

[1:23:51] giving us recommendations?

[1:23:53] >> I will not. I don't want them getting

[1:23:54] big hats. So are they [laughter]

[1:23:57] >> should we send the them

[1:24:00] >> the webinar for UCT or I don't I don't

[1:24:03] know what their background is.

[1:24:06] Yeah, that would be a good idea. We we

[1:24:07] can send that out.

[1:24:09] >> New right. So I think they're barely

[1:24:10] even learning land use. So

[1:24:12] >> we we can get that sent out to them. And

[1:24:15] one thing I am uh going to be proposing

[1:24:19] and and I and Quinn's not here. he's

[1:24:22] online I think is I would suggest it's

[1:24:25] about time that we have a council a

[1:24:27] joint meeting of council and planning

[1:24:29] commission to kind of talk about you

[1:24:32] know what the council's vision is for

[1:24:34] things and how planning commission can

[1:24:36] support that and

[1:24:38] >> let's do it

[1:24:39] >> that would be something and I apologize

[1:24:42] to Quinn that I haven't

[1:24:44] >> he's

[1:24:46] no I'm I'm very supportive of that Gary

[1:24:49] u mayor if we have time for a question I

[1:24:51] have have one for Gary on this issue.

[1:24:55] Uh, one thing that's important to me

[1:24:57] because there there's a fair amount of

[1:24:58] uncertainty as to what the impacts are

[1:25:00] going to look like, how many people will

[1:25:02] want to do this, um, you know, how it

[1:25:06] will affect neighborhoods. Uh, we have a

[1:25:09] number of cities in the state that have

[1:25:11] quite a bit of experience with it. I

[1:25:13] think Gary, specifically in Salt Lake

[1:25:15] County, quite a few cities have

[1:25:17] experience with it. I think Logan also

[1:25:18] does.

[1:25:19] It would be really helpful for planning

[1:25:21] commission, I think, to uh learn from

[1:25:25] those cities that have ordinances that

[1:25:28] allow detached ADUs in advance of this

[1:25:31] state requirement so that we have a

[1:25:34] better sense of how many we might get um

[1:25:37] and how conservative we might need to be

[1:25:40] with respect to demand. Um, so I would

[1:25:42] just encourage us to

[1:25:45] u to learn from other cities experiences

[1:25:48] before we make too many assumptions.

[1:25:51] >> No, that's that's a great idea. We can

[1:25:54] have uh someone contact those places to

[1:25:57] get information. It's in planning you if

[1:26:01] somebody's already done something

[1:26:02] similar to this, it just pays to go find

[1:26:05] out what their experience is. So we'll

[1:26:07] do the same thing. Can I just ask? So, I

[1:26:09] wasn't able to watch the I know you

[1:26:11] watched the one last week from ULCT.

[1:26:14] Were there highlights here? Um, you

[1:26:18] know, I appreciate that ULCT is always

[1:26:20] one size miss, right? That's kind of

[1:26:22] their their scope that they look at

[1:26:24] things. And I just want to kind of ask,

[1:26:28] is that the way they're approaching

[1:26:29] this?

[1:26:31] >> At this point, it's already a mandate by

[1:26:33] the state.

[1:26:35] >> I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just

[1:26:36] saying from our ability to legislate

[1:26:39] additional cuz like he says

[1:26:41] >> webinars probably

[1:26:44] >> they talk about it already though. What

[1:26:45] did they talk about?

[1:26:47] >> They've been pushing for cities to just

[1:26:49] make sure you're looking at that.

[1:26:52] >> Make sure you're getting that

[1:26:54] grace period.

[1:26:55] >> No suggestions yet. Just

[1:26:56] >> no suggestions yet other than

[1:26:59] >> don't be caught unawares come October

[1:27:01] 1st when that comes into play. That's

[1:27:04] what they've been pushing in my opinion.

[1:27:06] >> Great. Thank you.

[1:27:08] >> All right. Thank you.

[1:27:11] All right. It is 5 o'clock and before we

[1:27:13] go to the next item, I I would like us

[1:27:16] to be able to go I think dinner's ready.

[1:27:18] Just a couple of things. Um you'll see

[1:27:21] council that your the seat assignments

[1:27:24] have changed

[1:27:26] um in the in the council chambers. I use

[1:27:29] the highly technical random number

[1:27:31] generator because that to do that except

[1:27:34] council member Lamson has to sit next to

[1:27:36] me because he's the mayor pro tam. So

[1:27:38] you we have no but where you're sitting

[1:27:40] is where the computer gods put you

[1:27:43] [laughter] for this six months [gasps]

[1:27:46] and and so um just let you know that and

[1:27:50] then I've asked council member Mulestein

[1:27:51] if she would offer a blessing on the

[1:27:53] food.

[1:27:56] Our dear heavenly father, we're grateful

[1:27:58] for the opportunity we have to meet

[1:27:59] together city council and staff to

[1:28:02] discuss the needs of city bless us

[1:28:05] spirit with us. Please bless us food.

[1:28:07] Help it to give us strength and energy

[1:28:09] to

[1:28:10] have clear minds as we continue our

[1:28:14] meeting

[1:28:15] things in the name of Jesus Christ.

[1:28:16] Amen.

[1:39:14] item for in our in this section.

[1:39:19] It's a presentation on property tax

[1:39:22] calculator.

[1:39:24] Um Jessica Jones our strategy and

[1:39:26] innovation director and Pete Wiling

[1:39:29] director

[1:39:31] minutes.

[1:39:34] » Thank you Mayor. So come before you and

[1:39:38] uh share some of the resources that

[1:39:40] we've been on to help community and our

[1:39:43] employees understand the proposal that's

[1:39:46] before you for the project tax uh at the

[1:39:49] end of August. And so the way we've

[1:39:51] structured the website, it's basically

[1:39:53] if you're interested in just an elevator

[1:39:54] pitch, you can get that. If you want the

[1:39:56] five minute version, you can get that.

[1:39:58] If you want to get down into the all the

[1:40:00] resources, that as well. So at the very

[1:40:03] surface level, basically what we're

[1:40:05] saying is four quarters, two cops, one

[1:40:07] saber forum or one safer. And so if

[1:40:11] people are contacting you, if they're

[1:40:12] having questions about this, you can

[1:40:14] point them to this website and URL is

[1:40:17] to.govt.

[1:40:19] TNT standing for truth and taxation. And

[1:40:21] that's what this whole website is kind

[1:40:23] of built uh to do is follow that process

[1:40:25] that we've been going through all these

[1:40:27] meetings showing

[1:40:30] you state law. You have to be completely

[1:40:33] transparent transparent when you're

[1:40:35] considering property tax.

[1:40:37] And so the website

[1:40:39] >> [clears throat]

[1:40:39] >> u is just built out simply at first and

[1:40:42] then as I mentioned gets into more

[1:40:43] detail. So answers some of the basic

[1:40:46] questions people tell them the context

[1:40:48] and the background gives them the quick

[1:40:50] points here um that if people just

[1:40:53] needed a quick fiveminute version of

[1:40:55] everything that we've been talking about

[1:40:56] for the last month uh we can do that

[1:40:58] also built out with the help of some of

[1:41:00] our IT staff um this calculator tool

[1:41:04] where you can actually go in put in your

[1:41:06] market value your assessed market value

[1:41:09] and it will break down your tax bill and

[1:41:11] that's what Jennica is going to talk

[1:41:12] about and then we can look a little bit

[1:41:14] deeper

[1:41:14] in the website if you're interested.

[1:41:17] >> Okay. So, the uh the goal is we've tried

[1:41:21] to keep it simple. We don't want people

[1:41:22] to have to go and look for a lot of

[1:41:24] information, but we do want them to see,

[1:41:27] you know, this website and everything

[1:41:28] we've structured has been around the

[1:41:30] average. What's the impact on the

[1:41:32] average ORM homeowner? What's the total

[1:41:34] impact? But when it comes down to it,

[1:41:36] residents want to know how is this going

[1:41:37] to affect me based on my property value?

[1:41:41] Um, so this is meant to help them see

[1:41:44] where their property tax dollars go and

[1:41:45] then what's the impact of the proposed

[1:41:47] orum increase on their specific property

[1:41:50] value. So we'll start with the average

[1:41:53] market value in ORM. We'll slide over

[1:41:55] here cuz I can't see. Uh, so it kind of

[1:42:00] puts this here the 520,000 that's the

[1:42:02] average property market assessed value

[1:42:04] in new or in Warm City County for 2026.

[1:42:09] But obviously they can tailor that to

[1:42:10] whatever they want. If they want to look

[1:42:12] up their specific property, we link them

[1:42:14] to the Google County website where they

[1:42:15] can input their address and search for

[1:42:17] their actual property value. They can

[1:42:20] also use Zillow as an estimate. Won't be

[1:42:22] completely accurate, but they their

[1:42:24] value is actually the exact average

[1:42:26] $520,000.

[1:42:28] So the first thing it will do is show

[1:42:30] them the market value of their home and

[1:42:32] then 45% residential exemption for Utah.

[1:42:35] So taxable value of their home is just

[1:42:37] this 55%. So once they click this

[1:42:40] button, uh we'll kind of come back to

[1:42:42] this cuz this is the correct of this

[1:42:44] rule showing them how it affects their

[1:42:47] property taxes. But down here, it kind

[1:42:49] of outlines how their property tax bill

[1:42:51] is structured. Um for these other

[1:42:54] entities, I will note that we are using

[1:42:57] their 2025 rates. We don't have access

[1:42:59] to their 2026 rates broken down this

[1:43:02] way. And we wanted this to really focus

[1:43:04] on the impact of the city tax increase.

[1:43:06] We don't want to factor in any changes

[1:43:08] that they're considering that just

[1:43:10] muddies the waters. We want them to

[1:43:11] focus on, you know, what's the warm

[1:43:14] impact to my bill. So you highlight

[1:43:16] here, this is how broken down. So this

[1:43:19] is our 2026 rate. If we our certified

[1:43:21] rate, if we don't do an increase would

[1:43:23] be this. 0590.

[1:43:26] This is how much they would pay in city

[1:43:27] property tax for that line item versus

[1:43:30] what's the proposed increase

[1:43:33] 631 seems to be $180 in this scenario.

[1:43:36] And then the bond is separate and that

[1:43:38] remains the same in both scenarios. So

[1:43:40] there's also these info boxes that pop

[1:43:41] up and kind of highlight different

[1:43:44] things like why why is this general now

[1:43:46] zero and something. So just again more

[1:43:50] education about what is being proposed

[1:43:53] uh the new line item that would appear

[1:43:54] on their notice that they'll be sent

[1:43:56] out. So for the schools, the county and

[1:43:59] special districts those amounts will

[1:44:01] remain the same in both scenarios. So

[1:44:03] really they'll see the total property

[1:44:04] tax 2273 estimate

[1:44:08] without the increase and then 2285 with

[1:44:10] the increase. Again the actual amounts

[1:44:12] will likely be different depends on what

[1:44:14] these these final values end up being.

[1:44:17] um is accurate is the forum impact. So,

[1:44:23] you know, without the increase, I would

[1:44:25] pay $212 total to the city and that

[1:44:27] covers the uh public safety and the bond

[1:44:31] [clears throat] or the general and the

[1:44:33] bond in that case. And then with the

[1:44:35] increase, I've paid 2.3. These are

[1:44:36] rounded amounts. So, that's why it's

[1:44:38] slightly different. And then break it

[1:44:39] down for annual and monthly so they can

[1:44:42] see, you know, okay, this is less than a

[1:44:44] dollar a month for me. And then at the

[1:44:46] bottom here, we've also broken it down

[1:44:47] to show them where is this money

[1:44:50] actually going. So they're paying $180

[1:44:54] into this line item for the public

[1:44:56] safety fund in this scenario. So where's

[1:44:59] that going? $104 is going to the police

[1:45:01] department. $77 is going to the fire

[1:45:04] department. And then breaking it down

[1:45:05] for personnel, operations, and capital

[1:45:07] to align with our budget and kind of see

[1:45:09] like

[1:45:09] >> I think you got those numbers back.

[1:45:14] numbers don't lie.

[1:45:17] >> Maybe next year.

[1:45:20] >> So they can hover over and see like

[1:45:22] what's included in this. So for fire,

[1:45:24] there's the 104 sworn firefighters. It

[1:45:27] covers their wages benefit. So they can

[1:45:31] see exactly where their money is going

[1:45:33] and hopefully be able to see and feel

[1:45:35] the impact of that. Okay. Yeah, I'm

[1:45:37] paying $180. I know exactly where it's

[1:45:40] going and why. So, um, and again, I I'll

[1:45:43] just plug in like say maybe my property

[1:45:45] is worth $800,000

[1:45:48] and so,

[1:45:50] uh, I'm going to have to re recalulate.

[1:45:53] So, for a property of that value, their

[1:45:54] impact would be about $18 or $150 a

[1:45:57] month. So, really, it's not a complex

[1:46:00] thing. We want it to be simple to

[1:46:01] understand and feedback. If there's

[1:46:03] things that you feel are missing or have

[1:46:05] questions about,

[1:46:07] make adjustments to this real

[1:46:10] First of all, I think this is fabulous.

[1:46:13] Oh, great. And I think our residents

[1:46:14] will appreciate it. And maybe you showed

[1:46:16] this. Is there a place that we could at

[1:46:18] least

[1:46:20] representation of what percent or taxes

[1:46:22] are relative to their total?

[1:46:24] >> Yeah, we don't have it in a chart

[1:46:25] format. The only thing we have right now

[1:46:27] is like in 2025 about 9.5%

[1:46:30] to the city, but we could definitely add

[1:46:32] that if that's something that would be

[1:46:34] valuable like whether it's a chart or

[1:46:36] even percentage wise. Yeah,

[1:46:38] >> I think it'd be cool for them to just

[1:46:40] quickly see, oh, this is like, you know,

[1:46:42] very pretty small percentage of the

[1:46:43] overall size.

[1:46:44] >> Yeah, and that's what we try to

[1:46:45] emphasize both on the website and here.

[1:46:47] Um, that this this increase only affects

[1:46:52] the city portion. So, we're not talking

[1:46:53] about an increase of this 7% to your

[1:46:56] entire property tax bill. It's only to

[1:46:58] that or that 9.5%

[1:47:01] of your property tax bill.

[1:47:06] » Yeah, I support that, too. I like that

[1:47:07] idea.

[1:47:11] » If I could mention one thing.

[1:47:12] >> Yes.

[1:47:14] >> Not to name any cities out there, but

[1:47:15] there is once it's proposing an increase

[1:47:18] that's larger than

[1:47:20] >> right now.

[1:47:28] Someone in this room may want to move.

[1:47:33] » Coming in.

[1:47:34] >> When does this go? Is this is this live

[1:47:36] now?

[1:47:36] >> This is available. We haven't pushed it

[1:47:38] out because we wanted to show it to you

[1:47:39] first. Maintain your feedback um before

[1:47:42] we start advertising that this is a

[1:47:43] resource for people.

[1:47:45] >> We want it to be a tool that you can use

[1:47:46] as you have questions from residents um

[1:47:50] >> whoever.

[1:47:52] >> Well, we have some videos.

[1:47:56] >> Yeah. And we can jump back into the

[1:47:57] website and I'll show you some of the

[1:47:58] other stuff we've worked on.

[1:47:59] >> Yeah. One thing I do want to mention

[1:48:00] here with this, we uh used our in-house

[1:48:03] developers that created my created this

[1:48:06] from the ground up.

[1:48:08] >> And so I I think that this also shows

[1:48:11] interesting why we do in-house

[1:48:13] developing. So we educate the city.

[1:48:15] >> We sell it to other cities that are

[1:48:18] happy.

[1:48:18] >> So you know actually yeah my intern had

[1:48:20] found an example of another city that

[1:48:23] had a software and it's like a platform

[1:48:24] that this isn't what they advertise that

[1:48:25] they do and we're like we can do that.

[1:48:28] Why not? And it's so they're able to

[1:48:30] turn it around really quickly to our

[1:48:33] development team.

[1:48:36] >> Um

[1:48:38] maybe you already mentioned this, but

[1:48:39] would it be possible to have this inter

[1:48:42] meeting as part of the presentation?

[1:48:48] » I don't know. Like

[1:48:53] >> I just like I I like the way that it's

[1:48:55] so easy to understand.

[1:48:58] That's a clear picture. I don't want to

[1:49:00] get anyone into water. If we not

[1:49:03] supposed to do that, they would do mine.

[1:49:06] >> Okay. Like they were designed.

[1:49:15] » Any other comments on the on the tool

[1:49:17] itself, the calculator?

[1:49:19] >> Very cool. Great.

[1:49:24] » Uh Pete, I I love it. I think it's it's

[1:49:26] an awesome tool. Uh, one thing that I do

[1:49:30] think is very helpful for people to

[1:49:31] understand and I don't know if it makes

[1:49:34] sense to put it in or adjacent to the

[1:49:36] calculator, but just u how our overall

[1:49:40] tax burden compares to uh other cities

[1:49:43] that they're familiar with. I think

[1:49:45] >> that helps them understand how how lean

[1:49:47] and mean we are.

[1:49:48] >> You should mention that. I'm glad you

[1:49:50] mentioned that because right here in the quick facts uh we have a little

[1:49:55] chart and you've seen this in the budget

[1:49:57] book before but it shows you how we

[1:49:59] compare to cities other cities in close

[1:50:01] by cities you can see the average is at

[1:50:04] 14 or 14% or I'm down here and that does

[1:50:08] include

[1:50:09] >> that's with our that's our proposed

[1:50:11] increase and this is other cities

[1:50:13] existing 2025 rates and so we know that

[1:50:16] several of them are considering

[1:50:17] increases as well. Well, we know that

[1:50:20] it's not going to remain at point

[1:50:23] that clarifies that point that this is

[1:50:25] our

[1:50:26] >> for sure like when will we cities?

[1:50:28] >> I mean, we you can we can get their rate

[1:50:31] proposal. We just obviously they have

[1:50:33] the same timeline as us as far as when

[1:50:35] they

[1:50:40] » go.

[1:50:42] Well, and something we could add to

[1:50:44] this, you have it I have it on another

[1:50:45] chart that we in our citizens budget,

[1:50:48] but like what does that mean annually?

[1:50:51] So, like if you have the same this value

[1:50:53] of home in this city, what's that uh

[1:50:55] burden look like? Because that helps

[1:50:57] them too. Like, okay, this rate doesn't

[1:50:59] mean a lot, but if we add um if I'm

[1:51:03] looking at a $520,000 home, what does

[1:51:05] that mean that I'm paying in vineyards

[1:51:06] compared to or

[1:51:09] something?

[1:51:09] >> So, yeah, even

[1:51:11] >> Exactly. I'm giving you more. That's

[1:51:12] right. I mean, it's even with the

[1:51:14] property tax increase that's proposed,

[1:51:15] we it'll be tight for last. Um,

[1:51:20] >> we have that there in the quick facts.

[1:51:22] Uh, we talked about ORM's track record.

[1:51:24] You know, in the last 48 years, there's

[1:51:25] only been one property tax increase and

[1:51:28] I think the last time we did it was

[1:51:29] quarters for each house.

[1:51:33] The idea was the 2012 one.

[1:51:35] >> Well, I don't remember. EL.

[1:51:51] » Um, so yeah, so we we kind of put that

[1:51:53] in there. We explain a little bit about

[1:51:55] the uh dedicated public safety fund. If

[1:51:58] that ends up going through, then people

[1:52:00] can learn about that. Um, and then we

[1:52:02] talk about the scope and the

[1:52:03] sustainability, why we're doing it.

[1:52:04] There's some just notices about the tax

[1:52:07] notice that you may receive that you get

[1:52:08] 100% increase. That kind of explains

[1:52:10] that it's not your taxes aren't going up

[1:52:12] 100%. It's just that this fund is being

[1:52:14] funded for the first time. Therefore,

[1:52:16] that's how it's being noted.

[1:52:18] >> That needs to be

[1:52:20] unless you're going

[1:52:23] >> here. We just have a a set of notices

[1:52:26] and uh resources. So, letting people

[1:52:28] know that the final, you know, the

[1:52:30] decision will be made on August 27th at

[1:52:32] 6 PM part of our truth and taxation

[1:52:34] public hearing. We have the legal

[1:52:36] notices that were sent out. Uh people

[1:52:38] can comment publicly in public form and

[1:52:40] then based on the law, they'll also have

[1:52:42] the chance to comment virtually on that

[1:52:47] uh August 27th meeting, which is

[1:52:48] something we've never had before. So,

[1:52:50] this will be this will be interesting,

[1:52:51] but that's part of the new law. We have

[1:52:53] all the financial documents that are

[1:52:55] related to this decision. We have the

[1:52:56] sustainability plan, the interim

[1:52:58] budgets. So people, these are for people

[1:53:00] who want to really pay into it. Here's

[1:53:03] the property tax calculator again linked

[1:53:06] uh for people. And then uh you've

[1:53:09] probably seen these videos, but the the

[1:53:12] league has put together series of eight

[1:53:14] or nine videos that really explain how

[1:53:15] Utah property taxes work. And this is

[1:53:18] maybe one of the biggest challenges we

[1:53:19] face with property tax education is it's

[1:53:21] different in every other state. Utah is

[1:53:23] very unique in the way that they do it

[1:53:25] with the exemption and then, you know,

[1:53:27] cities don't get any more money based on

[1:53:30] increasing valuations. You know, it's

[1:53:32] just kind of capped at whatever the, you

[1:53:34] know, the amount is. Um, and so that's

[1:53:36] just not intuitive to people, you know,

[1:53:38] who maybe have experience with other states. Um, so from that point, so

[1:53:43] these this is all like the quick stuff

[1:53:44] that people can click on.

[1:53:45] >> Hey, can I make a comment?

[1:53:46] >> Yes, please do.

[1:53:47] >> So, let's see. public comment form

[1:53:52] >> participate in the hearing virtually.

[1:53:53] Can we have a link that gives a little

[1:53:55] more information and opportunity for

[1:53:57] them to do that?

[1:53:58] >> Yeah. So, what this will Yeah. So, what

[1:54:00] we'll do is pull it off of here, put it

[1:54:01] in here, and then they'll be able to

[1:54:03] essentially enter the queue.

[1:54:04] >> Yeah. Just kind of make it easier. Okay.

[1:54:06] >> I'll do that.

[1:54:08] >> Um, and then from this point, you just

[1:54:10] start talking about the reasons why we

[1:54:12] feel like we have to do this. And one of

[1:54:15] the first things that we we put in here

[1:54:16] is just how up to this point over the 48

[1:54:19] years forum has really done everything

[1:54:21] we we feel like we can do to stretch the

[1:54:24] money that we have. And you know, so

[1:54:26] once again, it references the one

[1:54:27] property tax uh increase since 1978. We

[1:54:31] did the efficiency study a few years

[1:54:33] back. Uh the department restructurings

[1:54:35] to save, you know, the million dollars.

[1:54:37] This kind of goes back to what we were

[1:54:39] talking about earlier, how even when you

[1:54:41] take the fees and the taxes and add them

[1:54:43] all together, Lauram is right at the

[1:54:46] bottom of what it costs to live in, you

[1:54:48] know, this area. Um, and then shout out

[1:54:52] to Jennica's team, you know, 17 almost

[1:54:55] $18 million in grants since 2023. Just

[1:54:58] showing people that, you know, asking

[1:55:00] for a tax increase or property tax

[1:55:02] increase is not the default. We've we've

[1:55:04] gone through all these different things

[1:55:05] to try to not do this, but we only asked

[1:55:08] because we feel like it's f it's finally

[1:55:10] necessary.

[1:55:12] The next point is uh how public safety

[1:55:16] costs have been impacted by inflation.

[1:55:18] And these are just two data points that

[1:55:20] we've pulled. How you know this is what

[1:55:21] it costs to do a patrol vehicle in 2016.

[1:55:25] Then this is what it costs to do it now.

[1:55:27] This one is the most shocking to me

[1:55:28] where you know this is just in 2020, you

[1:55:31] know, five six years ago. How much the

[1:55:33] engine cost? This is how much it cost.

[1:55:35] You know, it's most recent one that we

[1:55:37] ordered.

[1:55:37] >> Just a helicopter.

[1:55:41] » Already checked.

[1:55:52] » And the vehicles are the big lift.

[1:55:56] >> Can I just say this is apples to apples.

[1:55:58] So this isn't a small fire engine

[1:56:00] compared to a ladder truck. is tiller

[1:56:04] >> cost

[1:56:05] >> and and I think the residents will

[1:56:07] understand this because we've all felt

[1:56:08] they

[1:56:10] everything is so much more expensive

[1:56:12] than it was just years ago. Um and then

[1:56:16] this is the third point is you know ORM

[1:56:18] has grown in different ways are are the

[1:56:21] people that sleep here that hasn't

[1:56:22] increased that much over the last 10

[1:56:24] years maybe 1% a year or something but

[1:56:27] the daily percentage the daytime

[1:56:29] population of ORM is off the charts

[1:56:31] higher than it's ever been uh between

[1:56:33] the UVU students and all the visitors

[1:56:35] that come here for shopping and working

[1:56:37] and sports and uh you know whatever else

[1:56:40] what come to ORM for that population is

[1:56:44] taken off in the last several years. Uh

[1:56:47] we estimate there's about 42 million

[1:56:49] visitors to ORM. That's not unique

[1:56:51] visitors, but people who don't live in

[1:56:52] ORM, there's 42 million trips to ORM

[1:56:55] every single year. U you know half of

[1:56:58] them are probably at the farmers market

[1:57:01] [laughter]

[1:57:04] » but that you know that population we

[1:57:07] also need a help police side too, right

[1:57:09] Chief? You know, you'll see this this

[1:57:11] video here we have with um is it

[1:57:14] Lieutenant Lieutenant Fent? Um you'll

[1:57:16] see this in the next meeting, but he

[1:57:17] basically explains Ormfest and all the

[1:57:21] effort and time and resources that go

[1:57:23] into making a safe event happen. And you

[1:57:26] know, our events have gotten more

[1:57:27] popular the last several years. And you

[1:57:30] know, an extra police presence is uh

[1:57:32] just part of the cost really of making

[1:57:34] those events great and safe for

[1:57:36] everybody. And then, you know, we have

[1:57:39] maybe a dozen uh frequently asked

[1:57:40] questions, things that people have

[1:57:42] already asked, both parts, answer in a

[1:57:44] succinct way. You've probably

[1:57:46] [clears throat] gotten emails,

[1:57:47] questions, phone calls about it. And so,

[1:57:50] we've tried to take everything we've

[1:57:51] heard thus far and some of the other

[1:57:52] things that we haven't heard, but we

[1:57:53] intend or we anticipate we will hear uh

[1:57:56] and answer those through here. And so,

[1:57:59] that [snorts] is kind of the website in

[1:58:01] a nutshell as it stands. any feedback on

[1:58:04] where we're at, the information that's

[1:58:06] available,

[1:58:08] anything like that.

[1:58:12] » So, awesome. When can we share it?

[1:58:14] >> If everyone's good with where it stands,

[1:58:16] we can share it now. Um, so what we'll

[1:58:18] do is build our not [clears throat] our

[1:58:20] campaign, but like ourformational

[1:58:23] informationational campaign off of this.

[1:58:25] Um, so if if we like where this is at,

[1:58:26] then we can start doing smaller pieces

[1:58:29] educating people maybe on social media

[1:58:30] or in the newsletter. I believe

[1:58:32] [clears throat]

[1:58:35] » Carol looks good.

[1:58:36] >> Yeah, feeling good.

[1:58:38] >> Thank you.

[1:58:40] [clears throat] She's stretch.

[1:58:41] >> Do you stretch?

[1:58:42] >> No. How long is her length? She's a

[1:58:44] sergeant now, I guess, though.

[1:58:52] » All right. Any other questions,

[1:58:54] comments? Council,

[1:58:56] >> thank you for doing that.

[1:58:57] >> Thank you.

[1:58:57] >> That's very important. And as you hear

[1:58:59] from people, just let us know because

[1:59:01] this is so easy to update the questions

[1:59:03] that haven't been answered. We'd love to

[1:59:04] do the research and figure it out.

[1:59:08] >> For you guys, because for me

[1:59:12] again, some of the feedback that you

[1:59:14] andor residents may have is just to

[1:59:16] highlight things differently

[1:59:18] or or turn uh words into visuals.

[1:59:24] >> So, we're just we're open to all of

[1:59:26] that.

[1:59:27] What what kind of things have you been

[1:59:28] hearing? I mean, I've seen I've talked

[1:59:29] to people. I've seen what's on social

[1:59:31] media. What are people saying to you

[1:59:33] guys?

[1:59:34] >> Uh why why

[1:59:37] thing and it's and it's and the four

[1:59:39] quarters to cops and an easy

[1:59:41] explanation.

[1:59:43] >> I'm getting the why because it's not a

[1:59:45] lot. It's $450,000. They say, "Can't you

[1:59:47] find that somewhere else?"

[1:59:48] >> Yeah. I'm sorry I interrupted you. I

[1:59:50] thought you were talking. All

[1:59:52] I just I love the simple elegant pitch

[1:59:55] of this is why and this is where it's

[1:59:58] going and I have not had anyone to this

[2:00:01] point

[2:00:03] express any concern with that.

[2:00:06] the people I've talked to, it's been

[2:00:07] like, you know, they're they're quite

[2:00:09] alarmed at first, but then as you

[2:00:11] explain it, you know, everyone's been

[2:00:13] about it.

[2:00:21] All right.

[2:00:22] Thank you.

[2:00:24] All right. The next item we have from

[2:00:27] the city council report. And so, Council

[2:00:29] Member Kilpac,

[2:00:32] you're up.

[2:00:32] >> Thank you.

[2:00:35] Well, it's it's always a pleasure to uh

[2:00:37] participate in all of the events and the

[2:00:40] things that happen within the city of

[2:00:41] ORM. This year, I've been assigned to

[2:00:45] work with the chief and those are

[2:00:48] reports you've seen. We have that

[2:00:50] 3,000,000 extra put into there

[2:00:55] capital funds that I sit on that uh

[2:00:59] committee to help make sure those funds

[2:01:01] go where they go and be up to speed to

[2:01:05] represent all of the

[2:01:07] I also um

[2:01:10] I'm on the board of directors of the

[2:01:12] scholarship project

[2:01:16] be involved with those uh exciting

[2:01:18] wonderful talented

[2:01:26] wonderful scholarship

[2:01:29] that's uh come and now that's over with

[2:01:31] the next few months you know the uh

[2:01:34] neighborhood advisory commission it's

[2:01:36] [clears throat] they move every other

[2:01:39] month and uh this consists of the nine

[2:01:43] districts within the city

[2:01:46] and there two members so there's

[2:01:49] individuals that sit on that commission.

[2:01:50] There's uh right now we're trying to

[2:01:52] fill three vacancies.

[2:01:55] So we'll be

[2:01:59] she wishes with all of us. I'm not sure

[2:02:01] whether that and then uh I serve on the

[2:02:05] uh youth council with uh council

[2:02:09] McMillstein

[2:02:11] and also uh and that's we're just

[2:02:13] gearing up again now for the next school

[2:02:15] year that finished off last

[2:02:18] spring and now we're kicking it off

[2:02:20] again and then we have been involved

[2:02:22] with the UVU business resource center

[2:02:24] and helping with that as we integrate

[2:02:27] and interface with the the resource

[2:02:29] center to help businesses flourish.

[2:02:32] Those are the the main areas that I

[2:02:34] focus on with my assignments. Um,

[2:02:39] probably be the one that has the most

[2:02:41] impact lately has been the neighborhood

[2:02:43] commission with all of the changes with

[2:02:46] the STRS

[2:02:49] neighborhood enforcement team, the NIT

[2:02:50] team. We've had several presentations

[2:02:53] there. We also have uh been involved in

[2:02:57] initiatives

[2:02:59] being beautified through

[2:03:01] beautifification awards,

[2:03:05] other events such as that and then

[2:03:06] heavily involved as we all were

[2:03:10] in participated in this assistance

[2:03:15] neighborhoods.

[2:03:16] Just standing on the shoulders of those

[2:03:18] this commission in the past. We're

[2:03:20] striving to just meet the needs of these

[2:03:22] citizens that have a resource for them.

[2:03:29] » Any questions?

[2:03:31] >> You're all familiar with this as you've

[2:03:33] done.

[2:03:34] >> I met the new BRC business resource

[2:03:37] center director today. Yes. The orange

[2:03:39] business alliance.

[2:03:41] They got some exciting things planned as

[2:03:44] far as they go forward in addition to

[2:03:46] add some programming to what they're

[2:03:48] doing right now.

[2:03:51] Thank you.

[2:03:52] >> Thank you. Appreciate your your report.

[2:03:56] >> All right, council. Our agenda this

[2:03:57] evening is

[2:04:00] I'm not going to jinx or anything. I

[2:04:02] just It's here. We have it here. And we

[2:04:04] got three uh or five items. Do we know

[2:04:07] who's doing the u invocation

[2:04:10] inspirational thought?

[2:04:11] >> So Brad Sorson and Michelle Sornson.

[2:04:14] is one of the members

[2:04:17] of our new school district.

[2:04:19] >> Hey,

[2:04:20] >> Michelle and Brad.

[2:04:23] >> Hey, great. Then we have

[2:04:27] um report items. It looks like they're

[2:04:29] all related to Ormfest or events on that

[2:04:33] personal appearances. And then our

[2:04:35] consent item this evening is to approve

[2:04:38] meeting minutes

[2:04:40] and three different sets of minutes

[2:04:42] there from Monday June.

[2:04:44] You have a couple of scheduled items

[2:04:46] both u planning related and public both

[2:04:49] public hearings. One amending the

[2:04:52] appendix o of the or city code by

[2:04:55] altering an existing concept plan for

[2:04:57] the PD53 zone

[2:05:00] 1890 north states the old Allen's

[2:05:02] grocery store there. And then the other

[2:05:06] public hearing is to change the zone of

[2:05:10] property, the city owned property at 360

[2:05:12] West, 1500 South from public facilities

[2:05:15] to R12.

[2:05:18] And Teresa is handing out we've received

[2:05:20] some emails from people who are not able

[2:05:24] to attend the meeting

[2:05:27] and

[2:05:28] >> threw themselves.

[2:05:29] >> They they wanted to make sure that we

[2:05:31] had copies of their their comments are.

[2:05:34] And so you should be receiving those.

[2:05:36] Teresa is passing those around right

[2:05:38] now.

[2:05:39] >> So we'll have that public hearing.

[2:05:42] >> Yes,

[2:05:42] >> it's being reszone to R8

[2:05:46] >> from 12 Oh, excuse me. I'm sorry.

[2:05:50] Public facilities and R12 to R8. Thank

[2:05:52] you. Yes. Six acres. We're going to want

[2:05:56] all of it. Um the request is to have it

[2:05:58] all go to R8. Thank you. Thank you for

[2:06:00] clarifying that.

[2:06:02] Then we have our financial items. Um

[2:06:05] it's in the packet turn the time over to

[2:06:08] Bren for city manager items. And then we

[2:06:11] do have a closed door session after. And

[2:06:14] so at that point at the end of the

[2:06:16] meeting and I would need a motion to

[2:06:19] adjourn from our regular council meeting

[2:06:21] and recon to the close floor session to

[2:06:24] discuss pending or reasonably imminent

[2:06:26] litigation, the character or

[2:06:27] professional competence of an individual

[2:06:29] or the purchase or lease of real

[2:06:30] property. So that is our agenda this

[2:06:33] evening. Questions at this point.

[2:06:37] All right.

[2:06:39] Well, you all got 19 minutes to

[2:06:44] do something. [laughter]

[2:06:48] » We need a motion.

[2:06:51] » Yeah. Usually.

[2:06:52] >> Oh, okay.

[2:06:54] >> So, we'll make a motion. We're going to

[2:06:55] be stuck here till

[2:06:58] >> second.

[2:06:58] >> Motion to second. I

[2:07:03] there you make it

[2:13:47] Quinn, we've switched rooms. Can you

[2:13:49] hear us, Quinn?

[2:13:54] » I can hear you. Thank you.

[2:13:56] >> Okay, excellent. We've got connection.

[2:26:59] evening to um the ORM city council

[2:27:02] meeting 6 o'clock and we'll go ahead and

[2:27:05] call the meeting to order. Um we have

[2:27:09] our invocation inspirational thought

[2:27:11] will be given by Brad Sorenson and our

[2:27:14] pledge of allegiance will be led by

[2:27:15] Michelle Sorenson who is a member of the

[2:27:19] Tempenogus School District board.

[2:27:28] Our Father in heaven, we are so grateful

[2:27:29] to be gathered here this evening. We are

[2:27:31] thankful for this country and the

[2:27:33] freedoms that it offers us and the

[2:27:35] opportunity we have to celebrate those

[2:27:38] especially at this time of year. We're

[2:27:40] thankful for those who have volunteered

[2:27:42] to serve and to lead in our community.

[2:27:45] We're grateful especially for our first

[2:27:47] responders and pray that they might be

[2:27:49] watched over and protected in their

[2:27:50] efforts.

[2:27:52] Father, we pray that thy spirit might

[2:27:53] accompany us this evening that uh that

[2:27:56] this council might be blessed with

[2:27:58] wisdom and integrity and discernment

[2:28:01] uh as they consider the matters before

[2:28:03] them this evening.

[2:28:06] We're grateful for all that we have. We

[2:28:08] pray for thy blessings on our community

[2:28:10] and all those who reside here. And these

[2:28:12] things we ask in the name of thy son

[2:28:14] Jesus Christ. Amen.

[2:28:20] Please stand.

[2:28:26] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

[2:28:30] United States of America and to the

[2:28:33] republic for which it stands, one nation

[2:28:36] under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[2:28:40] justice for all.

[2:28:49] right. Thank you for for the prayer

[2:28:53] and for the pledge of allegiance.

[2:28:56] We have three items under the mayor's

[2:28:58] report. Next items will be a

[2:29:01] presentation on the ORMFest followup and

[2:29:03] I'll turn the time over to Kenise

[2:29:04] Whitaker, our events manager.

[2:29:25] I also have Sydney Wong Bailey with me

[2:29:29] as well as Cammy Burgess from our events

[2:29:32] commission.

[2:29:34] We're excited to be able to present to

[2:29:37] you on ORMFest and feel really grateful

[2:29:39] for all of the time and effort that was

[2:29:41] put in by our events commission as well

[2:29:44] as ORM staff to be able to pull off a

[2:29:47] really successful and fun Ormfest this

[2:29:50] year.

[2:29:52] As you know, we've been celebrating

[2:29:53] America 250 this year, and our Orumfest

[2:29:57] was laced with fun activities

[2:30:00] culminating this celebration of America

[2:30:03] 250.

[2:30:09] We surveyed residents of ORM and these

[2:30:13] are the results from the survey of the

[2:30:15] favorite activities and ones that we

[2:30:17] should repeat in the future. And you

[2:30:20] guys can see they're the the top 10 in

[2:30:23] order.

[2:30:26] Okay. Fireworks number one, grand parade

[2:30:29] number two, drone show, three, food and

[2:30:32] vendors four, animal exhibits, five

[2:30:35] boutique, six, carnival, seven,

[2:30:37] concerts, eight, children's crafts, and

[2:30:40] then number 10 at competitions.

[2:30:47] Okay, so we just wanted to highlight a

[2:30:49] couple of the events at Warmfest. Not

[2:30:51] everything because there's there's a

[2:30:53] lot, but we'll start with the car show,

[2:30:55] which is always our kickoff event. This

[2:30:57] was rated 4.75 stars. That is from the

[2:31:00] ORMFest survey. So, you know, it was out

[2:31:04] of five, too, not out [laughter] of 10.

[2:31:06] Um, and we'll, you know, we're grateful

[2:31:09] for the input of everybody that

[2:31:11] submitted their feedback. And so this

[2:31:14] event had 238 amazing cars. As you can

[2:31:17] see, that's a drone um shot and it was

[2:31:20] very full and so much fun. Um this is

[2:31:24] like a benefit car show. We've done

[2:31:26] that. Um and we'll talk a little bit

[2:31:27] more about that later, but we were able

[2:31:29] to raise $9,236.90

[2:31:32] for the American Legion. Um and then we

[2:31:35] had just under 6,000 attendees there and

[2:31:38] it was a great night. We're super

[2:31:39] grateful also for Walker Sanderson. um

[2:31:43] they help us so much with this event and

[2:31:46] for their support towards American

[2:31:47] Legion and it was a great kickoff.

[2:31:55] Okay, next we had our pool party on

[2:31:57] Tuesday and it is rated by the public

[2:32:00] 4.77 stars. There's a little quote on

[2:32:03] here that came from that survey saying

[2:32:06] that the pool party is always a slam

[2:32:08] dunk. There were 698 attendees, free ice

[2:32:12] cream, dancing, prizes. You can see the

[2:32:14] royalty got really involved here. It was

[2:32:16] a really fantastic evening and um you

[2:32:21] can tell everyone had such a great time.

[2:32:27] Um Ormfest Orchard Jam was rated 4.73

[2:32:30] stars. This had disco

[2:32:34] um what do you call karaoke dance? Yeah,

[2:32:37] disco silent dance, a children's farmers

[2:32:40] market, and a foam party. This was a

[2:32:43] huge hit as well. People are return

[2:32:45] attendees for this with just under

[2:32:47] 2,000.

[2:32:52] All righty. So, um the carnival days of

[2:32:55] course and stage entertainment that is

[2:32:57] always a big hit. Um 3.88 stars for the

[2:33:02] carnival. Um but we did have 82,400

[2:33:06] attendees overall in the park that week.

[2:33:08] So that's obviously a huge number. We

[2:33:10] had several um stage entertainments

[2:33:13] throughout the week. A lot of talented

[2:33:14] performers, a lot of um comp we did a

[2:33:18] hot dog eating competition as always and

[2:33:21] we had our 10th annual ORM's Got Talent

[2:33:23] where we featured a lot of talented

[2:33:25] people in Oram and it was a very fun

[2:33:28] week and successful.

[2:33:33] We had a new event this year that was

[2:33:36] run by our ORM fire department and they

[2:33:38] did a fun run where they had invited and

[2:33:41] participants to run up and down the

[2:33:44] parade route. There were 112

[2:33:46] participants which we're really pr proud

[2:33:48] about for this first year. They raised

[2:33:50] over $2,000 for the ORMS um fire

[2:33:55] department's PPFO to restore the engine

[2:33:58] number one and other charitable um

[2:34:01] efforts that the PPFO does for our

[2:34:04] community. Uh the grand parade and

[2:34:07] fireworks and drone shows are always a

[2:34:09] hit. We had the drone show that rated

[2:34:12] 4.87

[2:34:14] and I'm thinking whoever didn't rate it

[2:34:16] five stars was not there. [laughter]

[2:34:19] It was amazing. And the fireworks show

[2:34:22] is also at the top of the charts. Um the

[2:34:25] parade is 4.12 stars and we had 85

[2:34:29] entries. We had a lot of marching bands

[2:34:32] and extra fun things this year. Um

[2:34:35] crowds and and finding the right seats

[2:34:38] and candy fighting are always among the

[2:34:42] things that we can improve on. U but we

[2:34:44] overall feel really pleased with a

[2:34:47] successful event.

[2:34:50] And I think that's it. So, we just

[2:34:51] wanted to yeah shout out everybody. We

[2:34:54] have a awesome team and we're grateful

[2:34:56] for all of you for all of your support

[2:34:58] during that week.

[2:35:01] >> Thank you. Have you caught up on your

[2:35:02] sleep

[2:35:03] >> by now? Yes.

[2:35:04] >> By now. It's been a little over a month.

[2:35:06] Okay. Council, any questions or

[2:35:08] comments?

[2:35:11] >> Okay. Oh, okay. Say thank you to all of

[2:35:16] you and the events commission. They put

[2:35:18] in so much hard work to make ORMFest

[2:35:20] happen and it was a blast. You guys do a

[2:35:22] great job and I had a great time

[2:35:24] participating in it. So, thank you for

[2:35:26] all of your hard work and for the events

[2:35:28] commission. Thank you.

[2:35:31] >> Yes, thank you. It was it was wonderful.

[2:35:33] It was really a lot of fun. So, right.

[2:35:36] Thanks. And I guess you Oh, Council

[2:35:38] Member Gail.

[2:35:39] >> I just wanted to say thank you again.

[2:35:40] You guys do such a good job. And not

[2:35:42] just you, but all of the staff. I mean,

[2:35:43] they're working 12, 18 hour days, you

[2:35:45] know, working with the public, working

[2:35:46] with our our facilities. Um, and when

[2:35:49] it's all over, we go to that fireworks

[2:35:50] show and we think how great it is and we

[2:35:52] all go home and at 6:00 the next

[2:35:54] morning, you guys are there cleaning up.

[2:35:55] So, just props to you and thank you.

[2:36:00] Right. Thank you. And you looks like

[2:36:02] you've got the next item as well. So, we

[2:36:04] have a presentation, our car show

[2:36:07] fundraiser for the American Legion. So,

[2:36:10] um, Kenise will have you continue.

[2:36:16] » We just want to invite the American

[2:36:18] Legion representatives up here. Um, we

[2:36:21] have Rodney Gardner and Kelly Kilpac who

[2:36:23] will be um, receiving the check for us.

[2:36:26] We're excited to present it to them and

[2:36:29] um, yeah, we'll just have them join us.

[2:36:40] Oh, did we come?

[2:36:43] » Oh, there's a Oh, there's unflattering

[2:36:46] picture of me.

[2:36:48] Turn that unflattering picture on.

[2:36:56] » We don't need that for posterity. this

[2:36:58] picture

[2:37:00] there.

[2:37:10] » All right, here we go. One, two, three.

[2:37:14] >> All right. Thanks.

[2:37:16] >> Congratulations.

[2:37:26] Thank you.

[2:37:29] » All right. Thank you and

[2:37:30] congratulations.

[2:37:33] The next item is a presentation on

[2:37:36] events safety and Lieutenant Blake Fen

[2:37:39] from our ORM Police Department will be

[2:37:41] the presenter.

[2:37:43] [sighs and gasps]

[2:37:53] » You want to play it first? You

[2:37:54] >> want to do that first? Yeah, let's play

[2:37:55] it first.

[2:37:56] >> That's what I hope.

[2:37:57] >> You might not know know about Warren

[2:37:59] Fest is that planning that happens

[2:38:02] between all the different departments,

[2:38:04] especially with the police department,

[2:38:06] happens months and months and months

[2:38:07] before the event. And we're so grateful

[2:38:10] for the work the police department does

[2:38:12] to make this event safe and fun and

[2:38:15] friendly for everyone.

[2:38:16] >> Anybody want a ball? Yeah. Sweet. We got

[2:38:18] some stickers and bookmarks, too, if you

[2:38:20] want. Swim team. Is that what it is?

[2:38:23] Awesome. Very cool.

[2:38:26] >> So, in order to put together an event

[2:38:28] like Bormfest, it takes an entire team.

[2:38:31] Got a whole board of people that work

[2:38:34] all year long to make this come

[2:38:36] together. On the police side, we

[2:38:39] schedule overtime for the park. Have

[2:38:42] multiple officers in the park uh at all

[2:38:44] hours making sure everyone's safe and

[2:38:47] having a good time.

[2:38:48] >> Rock, paper, scissors. Who wins?

[2:38:52] All right, there you go.

[2:38:54] >> True champion. Right now, morning time,

[2:38:57] we have about seven officers working.

[2:38:59] The afternoon when things start to get

[2:39:01] more busy, we'll have 10 to 12 officers

[2:39:04] in the park. Our number one priority is

[2:39:07] everybody's safety. Favorite thing about

[2:39:09] Wormfest is honestly the community

[2:39:12] engagement. It's super fun to just

[2:39:14] interact with the kids and the people

[2:39:16] and just have fun with them. My least

[2:39:19] favorite thing is wearing this uniform

[2:39:22] and just sweating. Oh, I'm sorry.

[2:39:32] » I talk from this one.

[2:39:34] I won't fit in those chairs.

[2:39:37] I'm going to give public speaking a

[2:39:39] one-star review. Thanks, Chief.

[2:39:42] [laughter]

[2:39:44] Uh, so yeah, I was asked to just kind of

[2:39:46] go over event security. Um every event

[2:39:49] in norm is evaluated from a safety

[2:39:51] perspective. We want to provide a safe

[2:39:53] environment for everyone to enjoy the

[2:39:55] event. Um events are evaluated by their

[2:39:58] location, the type of event, uh the

[2:40:00] typical number of attendees from years

[2:40:02] prior. Um the priorities and logistical

[2:40:05] needs are then brought up to the plan

[2:40:08] brought up through the planning process

[2:40:10] and sometimes the planning process can

[2:40:12] begin months in advance like for

[2:40:13] Oramfest or National Night Out. Uh

[2:40:16] sometimes it's a few days in advance if

[2:40:18] we if we're we have a smaller event. Um

[2:40:21] day-to-day in police work, we manage

[2:40:23] crime scenes and events as they occur.

[2:40:26] So advanced notice is always a welcome uh notice. Uh smaller events we

[2:40:33] can usually staff with a handful of

[2:40:34] officers. That got really loud, Pete.

[2:40:38] Uh smaller events we can usually staff

[2:40:40] with a handful of officers.

[2:40:42] uh the extra police presence is usually

[2:40:44] sufficient to meet those needs. Um the

[2:40:46] larger events are a bit more

[2:40:48] complicated. Uh with these events, um

[2:40:51] there's usually a board of personnel

[2:40:54] like I noted in that video that uh

[2:40:57] include

[2:40:58] Kenise and Sydney, their whole team, um

[2:41:02] police, fire, our emergency services,

[2:41:05] parks, um and just I mean everybody from

[2:41:07] the city. It's it's a joint effort to

[2:41:09] make it all come together.

[2:41:12] Typically for uh most event most events

[2:41:15] the question is usually how many

[2:41:17] officers are adequate. Um for Ormfest

[2:41:21] every employee is used. We with very few

[2:41:25] exceptions. Um we have assignments

[2:41:27] throughout the week especially Saturday

[2:41:30] with the parade and the park events

[2:41:32] going on. Um officers are both needed as

[2:41:36] a visible presence and and uh officers

[2:41:39] that are out of sight for contingency

[2:41:41] scenarios scenarios.

[2:41:46] Uh when we put on a big event, there's a

[2:41:49] lot of questions that we ask uh in

[2:41:51] regards to the action plan. Do we need

[2:41:54] drones? Do we need camera trailers? Uh

[2:41:57] what kind of security do we need inside

[2:41:59] the park or inside the event? Outside the event. um the coverage of

[2:42:05] overtime with signup sheets uh for

[2:42:08] Wormfest. We staff that park 24 hours a

[2:42:11] day. We have two officers at night uh on

[2:42:14] a graveyard shift just to make sure the

[2:42:17] vendor's items are safe, the food trucks

[2:42:19] are safe, the the carnival stuff is

[2:42:20] safe, and nobody's in there vandalizing

[2:42:22] anything. Uh we have uh we go over

[2:42:25] protocols for lost children, lost

[2:42:27] property. Um, we incorporate crossing

[2:42:29] guards to help people navigate the

[2:42:31] streets safely because there's a lot of traffic and a lot of a lot of

[2:42:35] pedestrians around that area.

[2:42:38] Um, a logistical improvement that we're

[2:42:41] looking at for next year, next year's

[2:42:43] Orumfest, and yes, it's already in the

[2:42:45] process in my mind of getting going for

[2:42:48] 2027 is uh our events are growing so

[2:42:51] much and we're adding things. uh just

[2:42:54] having a better command presence in

[2:42:56] regards to someone in command over the

[2:42:59] park specifically, the parade

[2:43:01] specifically, and uh just allowing a

[2:43:05] better span and control of of all of our

[2:43:08] resources. Um there's a lot of a lot of

[2:43:11] effort and time that's put into making

[2:43:13] ORM events enjoyable and safe. And as I

[2:43:16] noted, we're we're already planning

[2:43:18] ahead for for several events. and

[2:43:20] Warmfest 2027 is is on our mind. So with

[2:43:25] that, that's all I got.

[2:43:28] >> Right. Thank you. Any questions,

[2:43:31] council? Thank you for that. I

[2:43:34] appreciate what you and the and the

[2:43:36] other officers do. That's a lot of time when when we're on

[2:43:41] that parade route. Every intersection

[2:43:43] has either got a an officer or a

[2:43:45] volunteer or somebody there and then in

[2:43:47] the park. So, thank you for all your

[2:43:49] work. Council member Mil, did you hear

[2:43:50] the comment?

[2:43:51] >> Yeah, I just wanted to say um you know,

[2:43:53] kudos to finding the lost child cuz that

[2:43:56] family, I talked to a couple of them and

[2:43:59] finding the stolen diaper bag, you know,

[2:44:02] all of these unfortunate things

[2:44:04] sometimes happen and you guys were

[2:44:06] there. You were delivering. You were

[2:44:08] comforting um and protecting. So, thank

[2:44:11] you for all of that, the compassion side

[2:44:14] and the protection side. You do such a

[2:44:16] great job.

[2:44:16] >> Not a problem. We're 100% on lost kids.

[2:44:18] So, let's keep that streak going. We

[2:44:20] didn't get all the property uh back, but

[2:44:22] it's uh it's been booked and waiting for

[2:44:24] somebody to come and claim it. So,

[2:44:27] >> all right. Thank you. Um Council Member

[2:44:29] Lamson,

[2:44:30] >> just also just to echo a quick thank

[2:44:32] you. Um you know, honestly, as I look

[2:44:35] back over these events, I don't think

[2:44:38] there's ever been a time where I've ever

[2:44:39] felt unsafe

[2:44:41] because you're there. And um I I was

[2:44:45] mentioning in our committee meeting, our

[2:44:46] follow-up meeting, that one of my

[2:44:48] favorite memories of this year's

[2:44:50] Oramfest was kind of later in the

[2:44:53] evening when things had kind of calmed

[2:44:55] down, but the carnival where the

[2:44:57] teenagers were was bumping. I mean, it

[2:44:59] was just I I there were that place was

[2:45:02] wallto-wall

[2:45:04] kids, teenagers,

[2:45:06] >> and the the

[2:45:09] just the vibe of that whole gathering of

[2:45:12] young people uh was amazing to just walk

[2:45:16] through. Not that you would ever not

[2:45:17] feel safe with them, but I think it says

[2:45:20] a lot about you uh and about the

[2:45:24] citizens of ORM. And you know, these are

[2:45:26] good kids out having good, clean fun,

[2:45:28] but um I I know there are a lot of

[2:45:30] places where you wouldn't feel safe

[2:45:32] being in a situation like that. And it

[2:45:35] wasn't even a hint of a concern or a

[2:45:37] worry. Um so, thank you. And uh we just

[2:45:41] appreciate all that you do to to keep us

[2:45:43] safe.

[2:45:43] >> Problem. It's a team effort. Appreciate

[2:45:45] it.

[2:45:46] >> Right. Thank you.

[2:45:48] >> All right. Before we go to personal

[2:45:50] appearances, I neglected to acknowledge

[2:45:52] that council Oh, let's do this. Yes.

[2:45:57] Thank you. [laughter]

[2:46:00] I neglected to mention that council

[2:46:02] member Quinn Mikum is joining us online.

[2:46:05] So, are you council member Mikum? Are

[2:46:07] you there?

[2:46:08] >> I am there. Thank you.

[2:46:10] >> All right. He is there. [gasps] All

[2:46:12] right. We're glad to have you here.

[2:46:15] Okay. We now have time for Oh. Excuse

[2:46:18] me. Personal appearances. Time has been

[2:46:21] set aside for the public to express

[2:46:22] their ideas, concerns, and comments on

[2:46:25] items not scheduled as public hearings

[2:46:27] on the agenda.

[2:46:29] Those wishing to speak will have signed

[2:46:31] up ahead of time. And

[2:46:35] those wishing to speak are also

[2:46:37] encouraged to show respect for those who

[2:46:39] serve the city. Comment should focus on

[2:46:41] issues concerning the city. So, looking

[2:46:44] at the number of people we have, [gasps]

[2:46:48] I think we can go ahead and um if you

[2:46:50] could limit your comments to 3 minutes

[2:46:52] or less,

[2:46:54] uh we've got we got our time.

[2:46:58] We have a timer now. If you haven't been

[2:47:00] here for a bit, we have a clock that

[2:47:04] comes up and we'll remind you of of

[2:47:07] that. So, we're going to go ahead and

[2:47:10] get started. And so our first uh

[2:47:13] resident who would like to to um

[2:47:16] participate in personal appearances is

[2:47:18] Aaron Larson. Welcome. And next will be

[2:47:21] Lisa Leser.

[2:47:23] [gasps] I know you're short on time, so

[2:47:24] I'll get to it. So last week I actually

[2:47:27] attended a national conference where a

[2:47:28] keynote speaker discovered discussed the

[2:47:31] Harvard Baylor research on human

[2:47:33] flourishing. Flourishing means more than

[2:47:35] simply avoiding problems. It means

[2:47:37] creating the relationships,

[2:47:38] institutions, freedoms, and conditions

[2:47:42] that allow people and communities to

[2:47:44] thrive. One of the central dimensions is

[2:47:47] financial and material stability. We

[2:47:50] have a housing affordability crisis in

[2:47:51] ORM. Councilwoman Millet has mentioned

[2:47:54] more than once how she wishes her

[2:47:56] daughter could afford to live in ORM

[2:47:57] instead of Springville. In the next

[2:47:59] couple of weeks, you'll be voting on a

[2:48:02] detached ADU ordinance. Right now, the

[2:48:04] ordinance is written in a way that

[2:48:06] almost 75% of ORM will be excluded from

[2:48:09] being part of the solution. So, I'd

[2:48:12] encourage maximum flexibility so that

[2:48:13] all ORM homeowners can be part of the

[2:48:16] solution. Instead of waiting for the

[2:48:19] government to sol to solve the

[2:48:20] affordability crisis for my family, I

[2:48:22] chose to build a multigenerational home.

[2:48:25] The home that I learned through a

[2:48:27] grandma request prompted this council to

[2:48:30] pass Orm's first home building ordinance

[2:48:32] that limits freedom in nearly 20 years.

[2:48:36] Tonight, in your closed door uh

[2:48:38] litigation session, Mr. Earl will likely

[2:48:40] update you on my petition in the fourth

[2:48:43] district court challenging that

[2:48:44] ordinance. As you listen as you listen

[2:48:47] to him, I'd ask you to weigh three

[2:48:49] things.

[2:48:50] First, Utah law expressly protects roof

[2:48:54] pitch as a residential building design

[2:48:56] element that cities may not regulate.

[2:48:59] Yet, ORM's ordinance uses roof pitch as

[2:49:02] the trigger that determines how tall a

[2:49:04] homeowner may build. Second, for over a

[2:49:07] 100red years, the Utah Supreme Court has

[2:49:09] consistently held that government may

[2:49:11] not do indirectly what the law forbids

[2:49:14] it from doing directly. government may

[2:49:18] not do indirectly what the law forbids

[2:49:20] it from doing directly. Third, the

[2:49:23] legislature that I've been in contact

[2:49:25] with has been clear. If the city

[2:49:27] prevails on a technicality, the

[2:49:29] legislature convenes in January and a

[2:49:32] three-word amendment directly or

[2:49:34] indirectly will then make the lawsuit

[2:49:37] moot and a complete waste of ORM

[2:49:39] taxpayers money. So, the real issue is

[2:49:41] lost opportunity cost. The city has

[2:49:44] hired outside council and has already

[2:49:46] expended a significant amount of tax

[2:49:48] dollars and stack and tax tax dollars

[2:49:51] and staff time over one

[2:49:55] multigenerational home. One

[2:49:57] [clears throat] that I am building for

[2:49:59] my family with my own two hands. Every

[2:50:02] one of those tax dollars and hours is a

[2:50:04] dollar and an hour not spent putting the

[2:50:07] Harvard's flourishing research to work

[2:50:08] in ORM. I have intentionally not served

[2:50:12] the city with a suit to give the city's

[2:50:14] lawyers time to show me that the Utah

[2:50:17] courts have allowed other cities to

[2:50:18] ignore the intent of the state law and

[2:50:20] to do indirectly what the city is

[2:50:23] prohibited from doing directly. So far,

[2:50:25] they've come up with nothing. As a

[2:50:27] taxpayer, I'm asking you to direct the

[2:50:29] city to amend the ordinance so that it

[2:50:31] does not go against state law and to do

[2:50:33] this before I serve the city and our tax

[2:50:36] dollars get used to pay for outside

[2:50:38] counsel. This will allow you to redirect

[2:50:40] these resources towards more towards

[2:50:43] making ORM not just family city USA but

[2:50:46] family city USA where everyone

[2:50:48] flourishes. So thank you.

[2:50:52] >> Thank you.

[2:50:55] » All right Lisa Lasser and then after

[2:50:58] Miss Leser we have Barry Flint.

[2:51:03] » Hi. I've spoken before so I will be

[2:51:06] short tonight. Our numbers of children

[2:51:08] are shrinking in our churches and our

[2:51:10] schools because normal turnover in

[2:51:12] affordable housing is going to vacation

[2:51:15] rentals. Within two blocks of my home

[2:51:18] are seven short-term rentals. Those are

[2:51:21] places I could have neighbors and

[2:51:23] friends, but I do not.

[2:51:25] Homes are for residents, not for weekend

[2:51:28] visitors. Vacationers get the keys and

[2:51:31] locals get the boot.

[2:51:33] Please, please do not open the

[2:51:36] floodgates in our city to short-term

[2:51:37] rentals because if you do, you won't be

[2:51:40] able to close that those gates again.

[2:51:43] Thank you.

[2:51:44] >> Thank you.

[2:51:47] >> Hey, Barry Flint and after Mr. Flint,

[2:51:50] Jordan Coway.

[2:51:55] » Okay, I'm just going to read from my

[2:51:57] notes so I don't

[2:51:58] >> know I don't have much time. So, uh, my

[2:52:01] name is Barry Flint, live in Orm. I've

[2:52:03] moved here alone from North Carolina 32

[2:52:06] years ago. Never been out here. Just

[2:52:08] decided want to get out here. Supposed

[2:52:11] to be here out here for a year. That was

[2:52:14] 32 years ago, never left. Um the I fell

[2:52:19] in love with not just with the the

[2:52:21] beauty and the outdoor recreation but

[2:52:23] also the people because they were so

[2:52:24] upset accepting of me especially with me

[2:52:27] knowing no one out here when I moved. U

[2:52:30] just I want to state that I do not own

[2:52:32] an Airbnb. I'm not planning on buying

[2:52:34] one and I have no financial interest in

[2:52:36] them. I've traveled for work for Mark

[2:52:39] for up to the last year all over the

[2:52:45] country. Uh we were staying our group

[2:52:48] was staying in Airbnbs of we had

[2:52:51] anywhere from 5 to 15 people in Airbnb.

[2:52:55] Uh it was for us it was a home away from

[2:52:57] home. U we away from our families for

[2:53:01] usually weeks or sometimes months at a

[2:53:02] time. Uh we would come back from a long

[2:53:06] day, fix dinner center and have long

[2:53:09] conversations about the day and how it

[2:53:10] went and help support each other. Uh we

[2:53:13] were told by our bosses that if we

[2:53:15] didn't take care of these places and

[2:53:16] respected the neighbors, then they would

[2:53:19] no longer do this for us. We never had

[2:53:21] any issues. We were only there at night

[2:53:23] and on Sundays after working long days

[2:53:26] off six days a week. I've also stayed in

[2:53:28] a couple in Orum a couple years ago when

[2:53:31] I temporarily was staying down in St.

[2:53:34] George. Had to finish up some work here

[2:53:35] and there was a lapse somewhere where I

[2:53:37] was staying. So I stay there's no way I

[2:53:40] could afford a hotel for 3 weeks. Uh so

[2:53:43] I ended up staying in an Airbnb, renting

[2:53:45] a room in a couple different places in

[2:53:46] Orum. It was awesome. Everybody was

[2:53:48] really cool, nice, friendly, respectful.

[2:53:51] U when families come to visit from out

[2:53:54] of town, Airbnbs are the perfect

[2:53:56] solution. My girlfriend's family and I

[2:53:58] have used them all over. Uh, from what I

[2:54:01] understand, they are being considered to

[2:54:03] no longer be approved here. I've heard

[2:54:07] complaints on social media, but nothing

[2:54:09] specific. I've heard fears of them

[2:54:11] driving up house prices, turning our

[2:54:13] neighborhoods into Airbnbs, and

[2:54:15] eliminate families. I understand these

[2:54:17] fears, and there is a way to resolve

[2:54:19] them. Uh, make them legal here like they

[2:54:22] have been to be able to continue use

[2:54:23] them. of the city would have that

[2:54:25] information of taxes would have to be

[2:54:28] paid on the income from them and if

[2:54:30] there are legitimate complaints, it

[2:54:32] would make it much easier to deal with

[2:54:34] them of the property owner's first

[2:54:36] priority is to make sure the neighbors

[2:54:38] are respected or they could lose their

[2:54:39] business of fear them taking over your

[2:54:42] neighborhood is a fear without facts.

[2:54:44] It's basically impossible to go out and

[2:54:45] buy a home now here and for that purpose

[2:54:48] and actually make any money at all on it

[2:54:51] of and then oh I got a little bit more

[2:54:54] but anyway of the point I'm trying to

[2:54:57] make is that they're very much needed

[2:55:00] here of make them legal without a ton of

[2:55:02] restrictions. It's better for all of us

[2:55:04] and let's be the community that welcomes

[2:55:06] others just like it was when I moved

[2:55:08] here.

[2:55:10] >> Thank you.

[2:55:15] All right. Um, Jordan Coway and then

[2:55:18] after Miss Callaway, we have Shauna

[2:55:20] Steinoff. Can I give these to

[2:55:23] >> Okay, gave it to Teresa.

[2:55:31] » Good evening, mayor and council members.

[2:55:33] My name is Jordan Coway and um I have am

[2:55:36] passing out. It's a petition that is we

[2:55:39] uh have been uh going around and we have

[2:55:42] over 600 people on there that are in

[2:55:44] favor of total prohibition and um as

[2:55:47] well as some very informative oped

[2:55:49] pieces from concerned residents from

[2:55:51] around ORM. Um I'm asking you to protect

[2:55:54] ORM's residential neighborhoods. The

[2:55:57] dictionary defines residential as

[2:55:59] designed for people to live in it. It

[2:56:01] doesn't say design for businesses. It

[2:56:02] doesn't say design for hotels. It simply

[2:56:04] means a place where people make their

[2:56:06] homes. The issue comes down to one

[2:56:08] simple question. Why should short-term

[2:56:10] rentals receive an exception that no

[2:56:12] other business gets? If someone bought a

[2:56:14] single family home and announced that

[2:56:16] they plan to open a restaurant or retail

[2:56:17] store, an auto repair shop, or any other

[2:56:19] business in the middle of a residential

[2:56:21] neighborhood, the city would never allow

[2:56:23] it. We have zoning laws for a reason.

[2:56:25] They separate commercial uses from

[2:56:26] residential ones to protect the people

[2:56:28] who live there. Yet, when someone

[2:56:30] purchases a home with the primary intent

[2:56:31] of operating it as a nightly rental

[2:56:33] business, somehow we're asked to pretend

[2:56:35] it isn't a business. If a property is

[2:56:37] being advertised on booking platforms

[2:56:39] rented nightly to paying customers,

[2:56:41] generating business income, and occupied

[2:56:43] by a revolving door of guests, that is a

[2:56:46] commercial enterprise. Calling it a home

[2:56:48] doesn't change the fact that it's being

[2:56:49] operated as a business. Property rights

[2:56:52] are important, but they've never meant

[2:56:53] someone can ignore zoning laws. Owning a

[2:56:55] home doesn't give someone the right to

[2:56:57] open a hotel, a restaurant, or a retail

[2:56:58] store in a single family neighborhood.

[2:57:00] Why should a short-term rental business

[2:57:02] be treated any differently? Residential

[2:57:04] neighborhoods should be for residents,

[2:57:06] for people who live there, know their

[2:57:08] neighbors, and invest in the community.

[2:57:09] They should not become commercial

[2:57:10] lodging districts, one house at a time.

[2:57:13] I ask you to uphold the the purpose of

[2:57:15] residential zoning, and apply the same

[2:57:17] standard to short-term rental businesses

[2:57:18] that you would apply to every other

[2:57:20] business. If no other commercial

[2:57:22] businesses would be allowed to buy a

[2:57:23] single family home for the purpose of

[2:57:25] operating a business there, short-term

[2:57:26] rentals should not receive a special

[2:57:28] exception. Thank you.

[2:57:31] >> Thank you.

[2:57:33] >> All right, Miss Steinop and after after

[2:57:36] Miss Steinop, we have Tony Crushmer.

[2:57:44] » Welcome.

[2:57:46] >> Thank you.

[2:57:47] I wanted to start by thanking each of

[2:57:49] you for the service that you give to our

[2:57:52] community. My name is Shana and I am a

[2:57:54] resident and a homeowner here in Oram. I

[2:57:57] am an active voter and a contributing

[2:57:59] member of this city. I plan to be a

[2:58:02] resident here long term. As you are

[2:58:05] discussing the potential of reszoning

[2:58:07] our residential neighborhoods to

[2:58:09] legalize short-term re short-term rental

[2:58:12] businesses, I want to share how

[2:58:14] short-term rentals are already

[2:58:17] negatively impacting me and my family.

[2:58:21] Councilman Kilpac, Councilman Mikum, and

[2:58:25] Councilwoman Gail, respectfully, I hope

[2:58:28] that you specifically hear my concerns

[2:58:30] today.

[2:58:32] This year, because of declining

[2:58:33] enrollment, Alpine School District has

[2:58:35] taken away funding for f two full-time

[2:58:38] teachers at our elementary school. My

[2:58:41] child, along with many others, are being

[2:58:43] put into a class with one teacher

[2:58:45] teaching multiple grades grade levels in

[2:58:48] what is being called a split class. To

[2:58:52] add a little context, school funding and

[2:58:55] school allocations are tied directly to

[2:58:57] student enrollment counts. When

[2:58:59] enrollment drops, the school is allotted

[2:59:02] fewer state and district funds.

[2:59:05] This results in fewer teachers the

[2:59:07] school can afford to hire, larger class

[2:59:10] sizes, and even like in our case,

[2:59:13] multiple grade levels sharing one

[2:59:15] teacher to compensate for these loss of

[2:59:17] funds. I took a closer look at numbers

[2:59:20] again today, and you may be just as

[2:59:22] shocked and concerned as I am. According

[2:59:24] to Airbnb and VBO, there are 525

[2:59:29] unique short-term rental dwellings

[2:59:32] within our city.

[2:59:34] The Alpine School District website lists

[2:59:36] 11 elementary schools in Oram. That is

[2:59:39] an average of 48 homes

[2:59:43] per school with a 0% chance of students

[2:59:48] enrolling directly contributing to the

[2:59:51] declining enrollment. This is not

[2:59:54] hypothetical.

[2:59:56] This is actually impacting your

[2:59:57] constituents and short-term rentals

[3:00:00] aren't even legal yet. I recognize

[3:00:03] short-term rentals are not the only

[3:00:05] contributing factor of declining

[3:00:06] enrollment, but they are detrimental

[3:00:09] nonetheless.

[3:00:11] For the sake of our community, how to

[3:00:13] effectively enforce the current policies

[3:00:16] should be the discussions on the table,

[3:00:18] not legalizing them or grandfathering

[3:00:21] them in.

[3:00:23] 525

[3:00:25] homes dedicated to businesses with

[3:00:28] rotating doors, contributing little to

[3:00:31] nothing to our community. This directly

[3:00:34] affects the ORM residents who have

[3:00:37] entrusted you to represent them. I ask

[3:00:41] you to please stand up to protect our

[3:00:43] communities. Thank you.

[3:00:45] >> Thank you.

[3:00:53] » And I hope I said your last name right.

[3:00:54] Is it

[3:00:55] >> Cretmer?

[3:00:56] >> Cretchmer. And then um Kathy Young,

[3:00:59] you're you'll be after Mr. Cretchmer.

[3:01:04] » Hi, I'm Tony Cretchmer. I have been an

[3:01:07] ORM resident for over 30 years. My wife

[3:01:09] has been an ORM resident for over 50

[3:01:11] years. When we first married, we moved

[3:01:14] to my home state of Illinois. And after

[3:01:16] a year and a half, um, we were blessed

[3:01:19] with my daughter actually just 9 months

[3:01:21] and 2 days after we were married. But I

[3:01:24] quickly realized I did not want to raise

[3:01:27] my daughter in the same environment that

[3:01:30] I grew up in it. So we moved and chose

[3:01:33] to live in Oram. We lived in Oram and

[3:01:36] rented for seven years before we bought

[3:01:39] our house back in 1999.

[3:01:43] My oldest daughter married 10 years ago.

[3:01:47] She and her husband went to school at

[3:01:49] Utah State. They rented. They moved down

[3:01:52] to ORM. They rented. They could not find

[3:01:55] a house that they could afford in Orm.

[3:01:58] They ended up buying a townhouse in

[3:02:00] Spanish Fork, living there for 3 years.

[3:02:04] Thank goodness they got enough equity.

[3:02:06] They were able to move back to the city

[3:02:09] where we raised our eight kids.

[3:02:14] My second oldest daughter has been

[3:02:17] married for about

[3:02:19] six years, seven years, six years. She

[3:02:22] has two boys.

[3:02:25] Up until a year ago, five of my six

[3:02:28] grandchildren lived in Orum.

[3:02:31] A year ago,

[3:02:33] my daughter's family had to move to

[3:02:36] Texas because they could not find

[3:02:40] affordable housing in Orum.

[3:02:43] Now, I don't care what anybody says

[3:02:45] about how short-term rentals may or may

[3:02:48] not affect the cost of housing. The fact

[3:02:51] is there's up to over 500 short-term

[3:02:56] rentals. Most of these single dwelling

[3:03:00] family houses that are not on the

[3:03:02] market.

[3:03:04] Guess how many houses are for sale in

[3:03:06] ORM?

[3:03:07] Between 220 and 260.

[3:03:10] Half as much. There are twice as much

[3:03:14] illegal operating short-term rentals in

[3:03:16] ORM as there are houses for sale.

[3:03:22] My daughter's plan is to live in Texas

[3:03:25] for the next five or 10 years and I will

[3:03:28] not see my grandsons often because of

[3:03:32] that. But they're planning on moving

[3:03:33] back here after they've earned the money

[3:03:36] because the cost of housing is so much

[3:03:39] cheaper there. You need to ask

[3:03:41] yourselves

[3:03:43] as you decide whether or not to allow

[3:03:46] short-term rentals. Are you willing to

[3:03:48] give up having your grandkids live in

[3:03:52] our city so that property owners, many

[3:03:56] of which who don't even live here, can

[3:03:59] continue with their short-term rentals.

[3:04:02] Thank you.

[3:04:03] >> Thank you.

[3:04:07] » Right. Um, Miss Young. And then after

[3:04:09] Miss Young Milo O, is that right?

[3:04:14] >> Milo. Oh. Ought. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. I

[3:04:18] probably wrote that wrong.

[3:04:19] >> Thank you.

[3:04:21] >> Anyways, um,

[3:04:23] mayor and council, my name is Kathy

[3:04:25] Young. ORM is Family City USA.

[3:04:30] I love that.

[3:04:32] But your vote on this short-term rental

[3:04:35] ordinance will tell us whether it still

[3:04:37] means anything.

[3:04:39] Ask yourself, do short-term rentals help

[3:04:43] families thrive?

[3:04:45] Um, strangers coming and going every few

[3:04:48] days, nobody knowing who's next door,

[3:04:51] parking problems, noise, constant

[3:04:53] turnover, parents thinking twice about

[3:04:55] whether they should even let their kids

[3:04:58] play in the yard or walk to school. That

[3:05:01] is not a neighborhood.

[3:05:03] That's a hotel district. Families bought

[3:05:06] their homes here because ORM zoning code

[3:05:08] promised them neighbors, not strangers

[3:05:11] coming and going. Warm families and

[3:05:13] homeown homeowners kept their end of the

[3:05:16] deal. Don't re rewrite the rules on them

[3:05:19] now. 20 years from now, nobody will

[3:05:22] remember the short-term rental operators

[3:05:24] who have been pushing this so hard. But

[3:05:27] every family in Oram will live with your

[3:05:29] vote every single day right next door.

[3:05:33] Family city US wasn't a slogan when when

[3:05:36] we bought our homes. It was a promise.

[3:05:39] Vote no and show this city you keep your

[3:05:42] promises. Thank you.

[3:05:44] >> Thank you.

[3:05:46] >> Okay, Mr. A and then Stephen Ael.

[3:05:56] Excuse me. Good evening.

[3:05:59] Um I live near Sleepy Ridge Golf Course.

[3:06:02] I own a home there. I also own a uh town

[3:06:06] home that with long-term rental renters

[3:06:09] in it. Um, in our neighborhood, we've

[3:06:13] experienced several issues with uh STRs

[3:06:16] or or single uh

[3:06:21] um so

[3:06:24] short-term rentals, STRs such as noise,

[3:06:28] parking strains, fast traffic, unknown

[3:06:30] neighbors every few days, and reduced

[3:06:33] social togetherness.

[3:06:35] We also have owner occupied units who

[3:06:37] rent out their basement with

[3:06:39] considerable success.

[3:06:41] In that sense, owner occupied makes all

[3:06:43] the difference. But when you have a

[3:06:45] company or individual who who does not

[3:06:48] even reside in the area or even in the

[3:06:51] country as as I know in my neighborhood,

[3:06:53] there's one owner who's spends most of

[3:06:56] his time outside the country who owns

[3:06:58] six homes uh one of which is short used

[3:07:02] for short-term rentals.

[3:07:05] So when they are that happens, it

[3:07:07] becomes a recipe for disasters or

[3:07:09] problems. For example, the following

[3:07:12] illegal activities have been found to

[3:07:14] use short-term rentals for their

[3:07:17] business according to the FBI, Airbnb,

[3:07:20] VR, Verbbo, etc. Human sex trafficking,

[3:07:24] drug dealing, prostitution, party

[3:07:26] rentals with vandalism, and unauthorized

[3:07:29] subleting.

[3:07:30] This does not mean that short-term

[3:07:32] rentals are involved or the owners are,

[3:07:34] but um it does because it's

[3:07:38] decentralized and p and the private

[3:07:40] nature makes them attractive to c to

[3:07:42] criminals compared to places like hotels

[3:07:45] with more staff and cameras. My point is

[3:07:48] why would we even want to risk bringing

[3:07:50] these illicit activities into the most

[3:07:52] valuable part of our city, our

[3:07:55] residential neighborhoods?

[3:07:58] Also in regards to housing supply and

[3:08:00] affordability pressures per

[3:08:03] affordability [clears throat]

[3:08:04] pressures per a study done by the garden

[3:08:07] gardener institute in Utah County STRs

[3:08:09] and investor ownership ownership reduce

[3:08:13] units available for owner occupants or

[3:08:15] long-term families.

[3:08:17] So certainly long-term families are the

[3:08:19] ideal. Vineyard did not curb their STR

[3:08:23] proliferation or investor convergence

[3:08:25] and they are suffering for that now

[3:08:27] although they've they've tightened

[3:08:29] things up. Provo along with some other

[3:08:31] neighboring cities have much tighter

[3:08:33] restrictions on STRs such as being

[3:08:36] heavily restricted and prohibited in

[3:08:37] residential and agriculture zones and

[3:08:40] generally require owner occupancy with

[3:08:43] commercial mixeduse areas with

[3:08:45] conditional permits. If ORM does not

[3:08:48] tighten up restrictions, then investors,

[3:08:50] operators, and developers will gravitate

[3:08:53] toward a more permissive spot like ORM.

[3:08:56] We did not move to ORM for STRs. We

[3:08:58] moved here because it is a family city.

[3:09:00] Please, we need to work to keep it that

[3:09:03] way. Let's be at least as strict as

[3:09:06] Provo when it um when it comes to STRs.

[3:09:10] Thank you.

[3:09:11] >> Thank you.

[3:09:14] Okay, Mr. Ael. and then Virginia.

[3:09:17] Okay, you'll be up after, Mr. Ashel.

[3:09:21] >> Welcome.

[3:09:22] >> Thank you. Good evening, mayor and

[3:09:23] members of the city council. Thank you

[3:09:25] for your time and your service to our

[3:09:27] community. I'm here tonight because I

[3:09:29] care deeply about Orm and the

[3:09:30] neighborhoods have made this city such a

[3:09:32] wonderful place to raise families. My

[3:09:34] wife and I have lived here since 1979. I

[3:09:36] graduated from Warm High School 1971.

[3:09:39] So, a longtime resident. Our resident

[3:09:41] neighbors were neighborhoods were built

[3:09:43] to be communities, not collections of

[3:09:44] short-term rentals. When homes became

[3:09:46] investment properties used primarily for

[3:09:48] short-term lodgings, the character of a

[3:09:50] neighborhood began to change. Permanent

[3:09:52] neighbors are replaced by a revolving

[3:09:54] door of visitors. I've got it in my

[3:09:56] neighborhood. Becomes harder to build

[3:09:58] relationships, look out for one another,

[3:10:00] and create a sense of community that

[3:10:02] makes neighborhoods safe and welcoming.

[3:10:04] I'm also concerned about housing

[3:10:06] affordability.

[3:10:07] That was a big issue this last election.

[3:10:09] Many residents believe the goal was to

[3:10:11] create more affordable housing for

[3:10:12] people who actually live and work in

[3:10:13] Orm. Yet, every home that becomes a

[3:10:16] short-term rental is one less home

[3:10:17] available for a family, a firsttime home

[3:10:20] buyer, or someone who wants to become

[3:10:22] part of our community. That puts

[3:10:24] additional pressure on housing prices

[3:10:25] and makes home ownership more difficult.

[3:10:29] I asked the council to consider whether

[3:10:30] current policy truly reflects the vision

[3:10:32] of familyfriendly city or has long been

[3:10:35] known as a place where families can put

[3:10:37] down roots. We did raised our children

[3:10:40] here.

[3:10:41] Children can grow up with neighbors they

[3:10:43] know and residents invest in their

[3:10:44] community for the long term. I encourage

[3:10:47] you to strengthen protection for

[3:10:48] residential neighborhoods. Carefully

[3:10:50] limit this expansion of short-term

[3:10:51] rentals and family neighborhoods

[3:10:55] and continue pursuing housing solutions

[3:10:56] that serve permanent residents rather

[3:10:58] than temporary visitors. As you make

[3:11:00] these decisions, I hope you'll remember

[3:11:02] that a neighborhood is more than a

[3:11:04] collection of houses. It's where people

[3:11:06] raise children, care for aging parents,

[3:11:08] build friendships, and invest in the

[3:11:10] future of the city. Please help preserve

[3:11:12] that vision of War. Thank you very much.

[3:11:14] >> Thank you.

[3:11:18] » Virginia. In Virginia, I know I met you.

[3:11:20] I just I'm afraid to I would just

[3:11:23] slaughter your last name. I'm so

[3:11:27] Okay. And then after Virginia, um Becky

[3:11:31] Smith. Welcome.

[3:11:33] >> Thank you. Last time I did this, I think

[3:11:35] I only had two minutes, so this feels

[3:11:38] really luxurious to me.

[3:11:41] Well, regarding short-term rentals, you

[3:11:44] know, I know you've kind of inherited

[3:11:47] this problem of short-term rentals. I

[3:11:49] don't know how it was created. I guess

[3:11:52] somebody at ORM was telling people it

[3:11:54] was okay to have STRs. Um but the fact

[3:11:58] is that um

[3:12:03] they've been illegal um in Oram since

[3:12:07] 2002

[3:12:08] as per Oram city code 22-9-1.

[3:12:14] Um and I I just don't really feel like

[3:12:17] short-term rentals benefit the overall

[3:12:21] citizenry of Oram. uh rather I think

[3:12:26] they benefit a minority of people. Um

[3:12:30] and there's a kind of a a sense of

[3:12:33] commercializing our neighborhoods.

[3:12:36] Um if you put the question of short-term

[3:12:39] rentals to a vote in ORM, I'm sure that

[3:12:43] it wouldn't pass. I mean, the majority

[3:12:46] would not be in favor of legalizing

[3:12:49] short-term rentals.

[3:12:52] And I don't see the logic of creating

[3:12:54] single family residential zones and then

[3:12:58] violating those zones by allowing people

[3:13:01] to run small hotels in those same zones.

[3:13:05] And the small hotels are short-term

[3:13:07] rentals.

[3:13:09] Um a residential zone is designated for

[3:13:13] human habitation rather than uh

[3:13:16] commercial or industrial activities.

[3:13:19] Short-term rentals are commercial

[3:13:22] businesses regardless of whether the

[3:13:24] owners live there or not.

[3:13:28] And there also is a clear link between

[3:13:31] STRs and increased crime rates because

[3:13:34] they disrupt the social fabric of the

[3:13:37] neighborhoods.

[3:13:39] And I think it's ironic that ORUM uh

[3:13:42] might be willing to legalize short-term

[3:13:45] rentals when they have been shown to um

[3:13:49] contribute to rising crime rates. And at

[3:13:53] the same time, they proposed a um tax

[3:13:57] increase because ORM needs two more

[3:13:59] policemen. So that seems kind of

[3:14:01] ironical or ironic to me.

[3:14:05] Um, so I hope everyone understands that

[3:14:08] you can't protect residential

[3:14:11] neighborhoods and still allow short-term

[3:14:14] rentals of any kind.

[3:14:16] And I feel like ORM is kind of

[3:14:18] different. We have these cohesive

[3:14:20] neighborhoods. I just like it to stay

[3:14:23] that way. This might work in San Diego,

[3:14:27] but I don't think it works for Oram. So,

[3:14:30] thank you very much. Thank you.

[3:14:35] Hey, welcome Becky. And after uh Miss

[3:14:38] Smith, we'll have Ethan Stoer.

[3:14:43] I hope I got that right. Welcome.

[3:14:45] >> Thank you. My name is Becky Smith and I

[3:14:47] have lived in ORM for 24 years. I moved

[3:14:51] into my neighborhood. It's a quiet,

[3:14:53] wonderful neighborhood. I love my

[3:14:55] neighbors. I want to tell you the

[3:14:58] experience I've had with a short-term

[3:15:00] rental. About two years ago, a man from

[3:15:04] Texas bought the house right across the

[3:15:06] street from me. Um, as neighbors, he

[3:15:10] told us that this home was going to be a

[3:15:12] vacation home for his family, but his

[3:15:15] real plan was to be was for it to be an

[3:15:19] Airbnb. Um,

[3:15:23] we have had we we have a school, an elementary school right

[3:15:32] across the street from the backyard of

[3:15:33] this home. Um, we have had

[3:15:38] school buses drive up and empty out

[3:15:42] many people. We've had a tour bus drive

[3:15:45] up. We've had um members that have

[3:15:49] rented this place. Um 2:00 in the

[3:15:52] morning, we hear them in the hot tub. Um

[3:15:57] I realize and I agree with the man who

[3:16:01] said it was so nice and welcoming to

[3:16:04] take his family to an Airbnb.

[3:16:07] I take my family to Airbnbs when we go

[3:16:10] on vacation. Um, but there are a lot of

[3:16:14] restrictions in those Airbnbs um about

[3:16:17] noise, about parking, about respecting

[3:16:20] the neighborhood. And that has not been

[3:16:23] my experience with the Airbnb across the

[3:16:25] street from me. Um,

[3:16:28] I feel like

[3:16:30] a person that buys a house that lives

[3:16:34] out of state has a little less respect

[3:16:36] for the quiet neighborhood that we

[3:16:39] enjoy. Um, parking is an issue. Um, at

[3:16:44] this moment there are three 12person

[3:16:48] vans in front of that house right now.

[3:16:51] 36 people in one house. Um, I think as

[3:16:57] you're thinking about some of the

[3:16:59] restrictions and some of the rules that

[3:17:02] will will happen in the Airbnbs, I think

[3:17:05] that's that's something that to

[3:17:07] consider. parking,

[3:17:09] numbers of people, um, and has been

[3:17:13] stated already, noise

[3:17:16] that needs to be restricted.

[3:17:19] Um,

[3:17:21] so that's what I would encourage. I love

[3:17:25] Airbnbs myself,

[3:17:28] but we need to make sure that the rules

[3:17:32] are fair to the neighborhoods, that we

[3:17:35] have neighborhoods that remain quiet and

[3:17:40] safe. Thank you. Thank you.

[3:17:45] All right.

[3:17:50] Welcome.

[3:17:54] Hi, my name is Ethan Staer. I am not

[3:17:56] here to speak on the short-term rentals

[3:17:58] right now. I'm here to speak on Flock

[3:18:00] cameras. Um, and I have a lot to say

[3:18:02] about them, so I will try to go quickly

[3:18:04] because I know I only have 3 minutes.

[3:18:06] For those who are unfamiliar with Flock

[3:18:08] as a company, this is a private company

[3:18:10] that makes contracts with cities to put

[3:18:12] up cameras on different streets to watch

[3:18:15] and register cars as they drive past,

[3:18:17] recording their license plates,

[3:18:19] recording people who may be in the car

[3:18:22] and all of this other information in

[3:18:24] this private database. Now, they often

[3:18:26] partner with police stations to allow

[3:18:28] the police to search this database, but

[3:18:30] these searches do not require a warrant.

[3:18:33] Additionally, these searches barely

[3:18:35] require a reason. There are thousands of

[3:18:38] searches that are logged under the

[3:18:40] reason of test. And the subject of these

[3:18:42] searches can be anyone from maybe

[3:18:45] someone that the police are

[3:18:46] investigating to exes of police um

[3:18:50] officers or people that these officers

[3:18:52] are just personally interested in

[3:18:53] watching. I know that a crowdsourced

[3:18:57] database of flot cameras in Oram has

[3:18:59] found at least 12 already in the city. I

[3:19:02] don't know if there are more. This is a

[3:19:04] crowdsourced system. Flock does not

[3:19:06] disclose where it places cameras, nor

[3:19:07] does the city. And I find this highly

[3:19:09] concerning. Additionally, this database

[3:19:12] is not only open to ORM city officers.

[3:19:15] So even if you trust every officer

[3:19:17] within the city of ORM, do you trust

[3:19:19] every officer in San Diego? Do you trust

[3:19:21] every officer in Houston? Do you trust

[3:19:24] every officer in New York City? Because

[3:19:26] every single police station across the

[3:19:28] country can access the flock database.

[3:19:30] And I find this highly concerning. CEO

[3:19:33] of Flock and people who support Flock

[3:19:35] will say that if you have nothing to

[3:19:36] hide, you have nothing to worry about

[3:19:37] these cameras. I disagree. If I send a

[3:19:41] letter to you, I put it in an envelope.

[3:19:43] Is that because the letter has something

[3:19:44] to hide? Or is it because we have a

[3:19:46] right to privacy? If I send you a

[3:19:48] package, am I forced to put it in a

[3:19:50] see-through and plastic container so

[3:19:51] that everyone knows what I'm mailing

[3:19:52] you? I simply am not required to do

[3:19:55] that. And I don't see why the motion of

[3:19:57] ORM citizens is something that needs to

[3:19:59] be logged by these flock cameras.

[3:20:01] There's even one I noticed across the

[3:20:03] street from the Sarah Theater. This is a

[3:20:06] theater where many families come and

[3:20:08] they bring their children. And I don't

[3:20:10] see any reason that this private

[3:20:12] database needs to record every family

[3:20:14] driving to and from this theater and

[3:20:16] needs to know the motions of everyone

[3:20:18] who visits. I find these block cameras

[3:20:21] not only an insane violation of privacy

[3:20:24] of the citizens of ORM, I also think

[3:20:26] they raise big questions about search

[3:20:28] and seizure rights. Is it legal for them

[3:20:31] to record all of this information and

[3:20:33] then give it to officers without needing

[3:20:35] a warrant? That's just something I think

[3:20:37] I would like all of you to think about.

[3:20:39] Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it.

[3:20:44] >> All right, that concludes our our

[3:20:46] personal appearances this evening. Thank

[3:20:48] you to each of you who've come this

[3:20:50] evening to to express your thoughts.

[3:20:54] Right, council, the next item on our

[3:20:56] agenda is our consent item and it's the

[3:20:59] approval of the meeting minutes of June

[3:21:00] 9th, June 15th and the joint meeting

[3:21:03] with Lynen City on but that's a June

[3:21:05] 15th and then on June 23rd, 2026. So I

[3:21:09] would look for a motion

[3:21:11] to on that item.

[3:21:14] >> I move to approve the consent items.

[3:21:17] Right. motion. Is there a second?

[3:21:18] >> Second.

[3:21:19] >> Right. Thank you. Um we'll start with

[3:21:22] Council Member Mikum on voting on that.

[3:21:26] >> I

[3:21:33] >> Right. Motion carries. Thank you.

[3:21:37] All right. Now, it's time for us to go

[3:21:38] to our scheduled items.

[3:21:41] First is a public hearing and it's an

[3:21:43] ordinance amending appendix O of the ORM

[3:21:47] city code by altering the existing

[3:21:48] concept plan for the PD53 zone located

[3:21:52] generally at 1890 North State Street.

[3:21:55] And for those who aren't familiar with

[3:21:56] where that is, that's the Old Allen's

[3:21:58] grocery store in the property around

[3:22:00] there. So, I'll turn the time over to um

[3:22:04] our planning director Jared Hall. Is the

[3:22:06] applicant here this evening? Okay. Well,

[3:22:08] you'll have a chance after after Mr.

[3:22:10] Hall to come up and and speak.

[3:22:14] >> Thank you. Um, as you said, this is an

[3:22:16] amendment of the the text of appendix O.

[3:22:21] We have all these great appendices in

[3:22:22] our in our code. Um, the Neers's North

[3:22:25] Oram is kind of what we called this

[3:22:27] project at 1890 to 1990 North State.

[3:22:30] This was um the PD50 through 53

[3:22:34] uh plan development zone was approved

[3:22:35] just back in 2024 in February. um in the

[3:22:38] original um concept plan. Um I'm going

[3:22:42] to go to this slide to show you

[3:22:44] something. Well, I want to not forget

[3:22:45] that the planning commission recently

[3:22:46] heard this on July 1st. They did

[3:22:48] recommend approval uh of this change to

[3:22:51] the council. Um because it's a little

[3:22:55] bit different. I just want to explain

[3:22:56] really quickly that there are two parts

[3:22:58] to these PD zones so that the public

[3:22:59] understands. I think you guys have seen

[3:23:00] them enough to know how these PD zones

[3:23:02] work, but we want to make sure that

[3:23:03] folks that don't that aren't as familiar

[3:23:05] with it are are aware of how this works.

[3:23:07] In a plan development zone, there are

[3:23:08] two portions. There's a code portion, a

[3:23:10] text portion, and there's a concept plan

[3:23:12] that's always attached to that. And for

[3:23:13] whatever weird reason, we we make them

[3:23:16] they're they're located in different

[3:23:17] parts of ordinance. So, the code part of

[3:23:19] this, the text part has not been

[3:23:21] changed. The only amendment is the

[3:23:23] concept plan being updated. So, that's

[3:23:24] why it's amending appendix O. Just

[3:23:26] wanted to make sure that was

[3:23:27] understandable. Okay. This gives me an

[3:23:29] opportunity to show you though that this

[3:23:30] is the original concept plan that was

[3:23:32] approved that's part of RPGs OO right

[3:23:34] now includes uh all of the same

[3:23:37] properties. We're not we're not adding

[3:23:38] additional property or changing the the

[3:23:40] boundaries of the zone at all. Uh we're

[3:23:42] simply changing a portion right in here

[3:23:44] where there were these planned two two

[3:23:47] um a pair of threetory office buildings

[3:23:50] that will now be replaced in this new

[3:23:52] concept plan. You can see them right

[3:23:54] there by about 31,000 ft² of a home.

[3:23:57] It's called home built. It's a new

[3:23:58] concept in home uh in in homegoods

[3:24:02] stores. Uh that that kind of thing. Uh a

[3:24:05] lot of other things about the plan stay

[3:24:06] basically the same. There's some

[3:24:08] rearrangement of the parking. They were

[3:24:09] able to get actually more parking out of

[3:24:11] the uh out of the new plan. It does make

[3:24:14] a couple of changes though that are are

[3:24:16] um significant or worth noting. It moves

[3:24:19] this building is closer to the backside

[3:24:23] than these two office buildings were.

[3:24:24] Although it is uh less height um overall

[3:24:28] the heights that are allowed in the PD53

[3:24:31] zone again none of that text has

[3:24:32] changed. So this new concept plan all

[3:24:34] conforms to those uh existing parameters

[3:24:37] heights within 100 ft of the residential

[3:24:39] zone are limited. Uh 48 is the overall

[3:24:41] height that's allowed but you have to be

[3:24:43] 35 or less if you're within 100 ft of

[3:24:44] residential. So back here you have this

[3:24:46] birthday caking of the planned uh

[3:24:48] homebuilt building. Uh so back here

[3:24:50] we're just under I think we're at 30 32

[3:24:52] ft just about 32 ft back here. Uh or

[3:24:55] [snorts] actually less than that here.

[3:24:56] 32 ft right here. Uh so it's

[3:24:58] significantly shorter than the office

[3:25:00] buildings, although it is a little bit

[3:25:01] closer. It's got the dock down. Um so

[3:25:03] it's got a submerged dock so you have

[3:25:04] less sound violations, things like that.

[3:25:06] It's required to put up uh fencing like

[3:25:09] we would a masonry fence to to buffer

[3:25:11] the [snorts] residential as well. Those

[3:25:12] are all things that are part of it. Uh

[3:25:15] part of that text that hasn't been

[3:25:16] changed and the new plan does conform to

[3:25:18] all those uh requirements. Um as we

[3:25:21] said, the parking has gone up just a

[3:25:22] little bit. We're able to provide on

[3:25:24] this new plan 277 spaces. Uh there was

[3:25:27] some question about whether that was was

[3:25:29] accurate or not in the planning

[3:25:30] commission hearing. So I I vowed to

[3:25:32] count those. I recounted them. It

[3:25:34] actually came up with 279, but my eyes

[3:25:36] were a little crosseyed by the time I

[3:25:37] got to that number. So we're going to

[3:25:40] take 277, leave it. I have not updated

[3:25:42] that number, but there are a lot of

[3:25:44] parking stalls in there. Um, this the

[3:25:46] parking requirement in PD53 is slightly

[3:25:48] light slightly less than than the C2

[3:25:50] zoning. 250 is our normal number. It's

[3:25:52] 255 in this in this PD zone. Uh, well

[3:25:55] overparked for it shouldn't be an issue.

[3:25:58] Uh, this is just an an image of the of

[3:26:00] the building itself, what it will look

[3:26:01] like. We have state street standards for

[3:26:03] building. You have to have so much glass

[3:26:04] etc. It's uh it's got a lot of glass for

[3:26:06] the building. A lot of a lot of sort of

[3:26:08] relation to the streets. It's a nice

[3:26:09] building with good roof lines. Um should

[3:26:11] look good there. Um so we have uh one

[3:26:15] more thing to show you just well if you

[3:26:17] have any questions that the only thing

[3:26:18] again that's significantly changing is

[3:26:20] this building goes away the Allen's

[3:26:22] grocery store. So um if if if that's um

[3:26:27] that's one of the the outcomes that will

[3:26:29] be part of this. It won't be two office

[3:26:30] buildings anymore. There will be space

[3:26:31] for more retail up here and uh out

[3:26:34] parcel for some restaurant etc. But then

[3:26:37] this would be home good or a homegoods

[3:26:38] store instead of the threetory office

[3:26:41] building pairs. Any questions about this

[3:26:43] change of the concept plan?

[3:26:45] >> Council, do you have any questions for

[3:26:46] Mr. Hall?

[3:26:47] >> I have one question. As I look at this

[3:26:49] image here, the the building labeled

[3:26:51] 1950.

[3:26:52] >> How does the setbacks against that back

[3:26:54] fence compare to what is now being

[3:26:56] suggested for the new?

[3:26:57] >> They're very close right now. I I don't

[3:26:59] know exactly how much closer they are,

[3:27:00] but they're closer.

[3:27:01] >> So essentially, you're basically just

[3:27:03] replacing this building with a newer

[3:27:04] updated one is the gist of it. That's a way of seeing it. Yeah.

[3:27:07] >> Thank you.

[3:27:09] >> Right. Anyone else? Oh, seeing none,

[3:27:11] I'll invite the applicants to come up if

[3:27:13] you'd like to add anything to what Mr.

[3:27:15] Hall has said. If you come up and

[3:27:16] introduce yourself, appreciate it.

[3:27:24] My name is Dave Vincent. I'm with Neers

[3:27:25] Bakery. We are very excited to redevelop

[3:27:28] this area of the land uh forum. It's uh

[3:27:31] something that I think will help the

[3:27:32] community immensely. Um we've been

[3:27:34] working on trying to get this plan to go

[3:27:36] for the last several years and have

[3:27:38] found that this is a much better option

[3:27:41] um for us to get the project going and

[3:27:43] moving along. We found a great partner

[3:27:45] with Homeuilt um and we're very excited

[3:27:47] to have them be part of the community as

[3:27:49] well. I think one of the big questions

[3:27:50] would be around who homebuilt is and

[3:27:53] what they're trying to accomplish. So if

[3:27:55] that's okay, I'll turn the time over to

[3:27:56] Patrick from Homeuilt so he can explain

[3:27:58] their concept.

[3:28:00] >> Thank you Dave.

[3:28:01] >> Yeah. So, good morning or good evening.

[3:28:04] Uh, my name is Patrick. I'm here on

[3:28:06] behalf of Homebuilt Hardware and Design.

[3:28:08] Um, I know that you had mentioned it's

[3:28:09] kind of a homegoods store. It's more of

[3:28:10] a a hardware and design center. It's a

[3:28:13] hardware store that also has an

[3:28:14] accessible design center that's more

[3:28:16] appropriately priced for um, I'd say

[3:28:19] everyday members versus a high-end uh,

[3:28:21] design center. Homebuilt is the newest

[3:28:23] concept from the Clyde Companies. The

[3:28:25] Cloud Companies is a family-owned

[3:28:26] business um based right here in Oram and

[3:28:28] has been in the area building, you know,

[3:28:31] the state of Utah for the last hundred

[3:28:32] years. This is a project that we've been

[3:28:34] working on for the last 16 months I've

[3:28:37] been a part of it. Um of planning really

[3:28:38] what this could be, what the offering

[3:28:40] would be and how it would meet the needs

[3:28:42] that don't really exist in the market

[3:28:43] right now. Um as it stands in hardware,

[3:28:47] you have big box chains that take an

[3:28:48] hour to get in and out of and rarely you

[3:28:50] find what you're actually looking for.

[3:28:51] or you have really small places that you

[3:28:53] don't necessarily know are they going to

[3:28:54] have what you need. This is looking to

[3:28:56] combine

[3:28:58] um skilled people that can help solve

[3:29:01] your problems while you're shopping with

[3:29:03] an elevated experience. If you think

[3:29:05] about what Trader Joe's did grocery,

[3:29:06] that's what we're looking to do with

[3:29:07] hardware. It's making an elevated

[3:29:09] experience that is really fun to shop

[3:29:11] at. Um I know that we were able to cover

[3:29:14] a lot of the questions that we've heard

[3:29:15] in the past and in some of these

[3:29:17] meetings in the community meeting. Just

[3:29:19] a few other points that in case anyone

[3:29:21] else has these questions. The height of

[3:29:22] the building is 39 ft at the front. It's

[3:29:24] 23 feet at the back. There's a 46 foot

[3:29:27] 45T 6 in sorry uh set back from the back

[3:29:30] which I do believe is further than the

[3:29:31] current Allen's building. Um there would

[3:29:35] be a seven foot masonry wall along with

[3:29:36] the code that we have and lighting we're

[3:29:38] still working on but it has come up from

[3:29:40] the community members and it's something

[3:29:41] we're committed to working on them with

[3:29:42] to make sure that it's addressing any

[3:29:44] concerns they have with you know the

[3:29:47] setbacks being somewhat close to the

[3:29:48] houses behind. Um but this is something

[3:29:51] we're really excited about. We're based

[3:29:52] right here in Oram. This is the first of

[3:29:54] three that we're going to open next year

[3:29:55] ideally with your permission. Um and

[3:29:58] it's really going to be the flagship

[3:29:58] store that we have uh for this home

[3:30:00] build idea.

[3:30:02] >> All right. Thank you. Um, council

[3:30:04] members, do you have any questions?

[3:30:07] >> All right, seeing I

[3:30:08] >> mayor, I have one if it's okay.

[3:30:10] >> Oh, okay. I hear a voice.

[3:30:12] >> Yeah, [laughter] scared me.

[3:30:13] >> Okay, council member Mikum, I apologize.

[3:30:16] >> Yeah, no worries.

[3:30:17] >> Go ahead.

[3:30:19] Um I I know this has come up at planning

[3:30:21] commission and others, but um uh because

[3:30:24] it it is near a residential uh zone.

[3:30:28] Just wondering if you could specify a

[3:30:30] little bit more of what you plan to do

[3:30:32] to mitigate noise and light. I think

[3:30:34] those are two issues that that people uh

[3:30:37] have some remaining concerns about.

[3:30:40] >> Yeah, of course. So for mitigating

[3:30:41] noise, as you mentioned, we have a

[3:30:43] depressed loading dock. We've also put a

[3:30:44] concrete or masonry wall between the

[3:30:46] loading dock and the building so that

[3:30:48] it's going to go into a depressed tunnel

[3:30:51] almost that's going to have a masonry

[3:30:52] wall in addition to another masonry wall

[3:30:54] at the back of the building which will

[3:30:55] really help and um evidence points to a

[3:30:58] bunch of retailers that do this that it

[3:30:59] really helps mitigate noise.

[3:31:01] Additionally, we're going to have an

[3:31:03] indoor area for pickup where if you go

[3:31:04] to Home Depot, trucks are parked

[3:31:06] outside. We're gonna have a drive-thru

[3:31:07] where a garage door opens and we'll load

[3:31:09] your truck for you and then a garage

[3:31:11] door opens on the backside and you drive

[3:31:13] out. So really trying to make sure that

[3:31:15] we are good stewards of the community

[3:31:17] that we're entering and really take into

[3:31:18] consideration how do we minimize noise

[3:31:21] as it comes to lighting. We're open to

[3:31:23] any measures that you all recommend

[3:31:25] whether it's down lighting or cut offs

[3:31:27] in line with the code and that would

[3:31:29] help um satisfy the neighbors that we

[3:31:30] have behind us.

[3:31:33] >> Okay. Thank you. And so I would assume

[3:31:36] that the staff I would we would leave

[3:31:38] that to the our plan our community

[3:31:40] development staff.

[3:31:41] >> It's it's a good it's a good moment to

[3:31:43] insert the thing I forgot to say. I

[3:31:45] never leave you with everything at once.

[3:31:47] I like to

[3:31:47] >> you leave us in suspense. Yes. Thank

[3:31:49] you.

[3:31:50] >> One more. Um this will go if if it's

[3:31:52] approved for the change. This is the

[3:31:54] concept plan, but it has to match a site

[3:31:56] plan that gets approved through the

[3:31:57] planning division for the planning

[3:31:59] commission's process. So things like

[3:32:00] phototric plans and things have to be uh

[3:32:03] part of those submitts. So we we'll use

[3:32:05] cutoff lighting or down directed

[3:32:06] lighting to make sure there's zero bleed

[3:32:08] at property lines and glare and all that

[3:32:09] stuff. Part of that site plan will pull

[3:32:11] up council. Um pull up the concept plan.

[3:32:15] >> Oh,

[3:32:15] >> if you would for the screen. Yeah,

[3:32:18] >> the site. Um

[3:32:19] >> let me get to the big one. There's a big

[3:32:20] version, right? Well, there's that

[3:32:22] version. That's There we go. Probably

[3:32:24] that one. Yeah. Thank you.

[3:32:29] And

[3:32:30] Oh, you don't have any. You just you

[3:32:32] wanted

[3:32:32] >> I just wanted to I thought this is a

[3:32:33] better representation of what we're

[3:32:34] talking about.

[3:32:35] >> Oh, okay. I thought you had a question.

[3:32:36] >> The prior the prior zone and now the new

[3:32:38] one that you're asking for is on the

[3:32:40] right with a different concept.

[3:32:42] >> Thank you.

[3:32:42] >> And one thing I'll note and I should

[3:32:44] probably not offer more information than

[3:32:46] that, but if you see the dotted line

[3:32:47] behind uh the orange building, that is

[3:32:50] the current line of the Allen's

[3:32:51] building. So, it is a bit more I don't

[3:32:53] have the exact number, but it is further

[3:32:55] away.

[3:32:55] >> Yeah.

[3:32:57] >> Great. Thank you. And thank you for

[3:33:00] eliminating that suspense, Mr. Hall.

[3:33:03] [sighs and gasps] It is a public hearing

[3:33:05] and so I would like to open the public

[3:33:06] hearing. If there's anyone who would

[3:33:08] [gasps] like to speak to this item on

[3:33:10] the agenda, I invite you to come forward

[3:33:12] and introduce yourself and you'll have

[3:33:14] up to three minutes.

[3:33:22] Good evening, Council Mayor Mccandas.

[3:33:25] I'm Marian Baxter and I really I was

[3:33:28] unaware of this on the agenda this

[3:33:30] evening. I would like to thank Homebuild

[3:33:34] and the proposal that's coming up for

[3:33:37] light pollution mitigation and noise

[3:33:40] mitigation. What he just described I

[3:33:43] have never really seen other than at

[3:33:46] Harmon's grocery store where you can

[3:33:48] pull through and be loaded your

[3:33:50] groceries loaded. So I'm very grateful

[3:33:52] for that. light pollution is we have

[3:33:55] growth going around a very tight area

[3:33:59] from the mountains to where Utah Lake

[3:34:02] sits. So we get to deal with some

[3:34:05] density issues throughout Utah County

[3:34:07] that are very unique. And with the

[3:34:11] growth of Provo Airport, we literally

[3:34:15] have issues with how do you manage the

[3:34:18] wildlife? We don't want to decimate them

[3:34:20] all. you know the birds, the the

[3:34:24] ecosystems. So everything that deals we are living in a very integrated

[3:34:30] landscape and the light matters and the

[3:34:34] noise matters and the pollution matters

[3:34:36] for even the human beings. [laughter]

[3:34:40] So I also because I had a moment here, I

[3:34:43] did not get here in time to sign up for

[3:34:45] the public comment initially and I would

[3:34:48] like to draw some attention to our

[3:34:50] police officers and the outreach that

[3:34:53] they're doing in public coming to the

[3:34:56] public parks. I was honored to attend

[3:34:58] the Cherry Hill Park gathering and we

[3:35:01] had wild window wind and several of the

[3:35:05] council members and the mayor were there

[3:35:07] and the police officers and we all

[3:35:09] stayed safe even with the elements going

[3:35:12] kind of wild that night. I would like to

[3:35:14] comment on Pete's or Peter's um REIT

[3:35:19] outreach and I did not know until that

[3:35:22] evening that we can send texts to ORM

[3:35:25] city and we're spreading the word and

[3:35:28] I'd like to see a higher profile that

[3:35:31] when you see something a buckled

[3:35:33] sidewalk or a pothole or even a positive

[3:35:37] thing happening you can send a text now.

[3:35:40] Hallelujah. That's a great use of

[3:35:43] technology. So, thank you for being able

[3:35:46] to do a mixed message here. Hope it was

[3:35:48] clear. And um Homebuilt, good luck. I

[3:35:52] hope it goes well.

[3:35:55] >> Thank you.

[3:35:55] There's anyone else who would

[3:35:58] like to speak

[3:36:00] to this? Welcome. And please introduce

[3:36:02] yourself and you'll have up to three

[3:36:04] minutes.

[3:36:06] >> Keith Walker and I live behind this

[3:36:08] property. Um, a couple questions. I just

[3:36:12] share a couple thoughts. It was two

[3:36:13] years and three months ago. He said it

[3:36:15] was in February, but it was for the city

[3:36:17] council in April that we were here for

[3:36:20] this same piece of property. And why are

[3:36:23] we here now again? They walked out happy

[3:36:25] as can be and they went down the road.

[3:36:27] Now we're back again for the same thing.

[3:36:31] The only reason we're here that this is

[3:36:32] going to succeed is because WW Clyde has

[3:36:35] stepped in and been a part of this

[3:36:36] project. As I met with Jiren Hall two

[3:36:40] weeks ago, he was under the impression

[3:36:42] that WW Clyde had purchased this

[3:36:44] property. My understanding and comments

[3:36:47] to them and to home built that is not

[3:36:49] the case. So, we still have the problem

[3:36:51] with neers owning the property that's

[3:36:54] gone on for a long period of time. Uh

[3:36:58] question in the planning meeting that

[3:37:00] they approve the DOT approval on the

[3:37:03] access on State Street. Uh [snorts]

[3:37:08] uh also a question for the the council

[3:37:11] to consider and I know it probably

[3:37:12] doesn't fall into this but two years ago

[3:37:14] the city council made adjustments in

[3:37:17] this property to allow these guys for

[3:37:20] more parking. They needed 347

[3:37:23] parking places originally and now they

[3:37:26] and I know you said this different they

[3:37:28] this is less than it was which is fine

[3:37:30] but they made counselow

[3:37:36] this to go through. It might not apply

[3:37:38] to you but just to think do you want to

[3:37:40] allow those setbacks still to be in in

[3:37:42] place? um

[3:37:46] handicapped on this property there's

[3:37:48] nine on the on the property that's

[3:37:50] presented on the drawing there's nine

[3:37:52] handicap stalls. I don't know what the

[3:37:54] regulation is. I'm not in favor but I

[3:37:56] just question if that's the right

[3:37:57] amount. Uh, the other thing I'd like to

[3:38:00] draw your attention to on this plan is

[3:38:02] on the north end of the plan, on the

[3:38:04] south end of the plan, I'm sorry, on the

[3:38:06] south end of the plan, the one

[3:38:09] drive-thru goes to iDrive property, and

[3:38:11] that's been in existence the whole time.

[3:38:13] It's had to be there. They have

[3:38:16] positioned this restaurant and

[3:38:18] drive-thru in that entrance way to the

[3:38:20] drive to go to North to ID Drive. that

[3:38:23] the part of that restaurant and that

[3:38:25] curb out at the front, that first curb

[3:38:27] with green is in half or better of that

[3:38:30] driveway through. I don't think that's a

[3:38:32] good situation. That's just my thought

[3:38:34] on that to improve it. Uh the other one

[3:38:37] is on the north end of the property.

[3:38:39] They put a drive a drive-thru lane on

[3:38:42] that building on the north on the north

[3:38:44] side of that. The way that looks,

[3:38:46] they've got a place for roughly two

[3:38:49] cars, maybe three at the very most in

[3:38:51] that drive-thru lane. If not, they're

[3:38:54] going to back up into that entrance in

[3:38:55] the property. I don't know what they

[3:38:56] plan on putting there, but I don't think

[3:38:58] a twocar drive up is enough unless it

[3:39:01] was something, you know, a dry cleaner,

[3:39:03] something that was very light. And

[3:39:04] they've talked about that once. So,

[3:39:06] that's another question I have on the

[3:39:07] plan. The other one was, uh, we've

[3:39:10] talked about, uh,

[3:39:12] rodent control. I was told tonight just

[3:39:15] briefly that it was going to be started

[3:39:17] tore down tomorrow and we've asked

[3:39:20] repeatedly for that to happen. I know

[3:39:22] you some of you were involved with Orm

[3:39:24] High School and it was a disaster to the

[3:39:26] neighbors when that tore down and I just

[3:39:28] ask for your encouragement. We're not

[3:39:30] necessarily opposed to it. We're

[3:39:31] grateful for WW Clyde to step in and do

[3:39:35] something with it as the city wants it

[3:39:37] deal. We're still nervous what needers

[3:39:39] will do with the rest of it though.

[3:39:40] Thank you.

[3:39:42] So, question. Um, I'm going

[3:39:46] to ask Well, I'm going to ask Mr. Hall a

[3:39:47] couple questions and then I'm going to

[3:39:48] ask you about rodents. Wasn't just a

[3:39:52] um and so you put the concept plan back

[3:39:55] up. Um I'm curious what uh

[3:40:00] what items on this concept plan um the

[3:40:04] items that were brought up talk they

[3:40:06] talk about the different drive-throughs

[3:40:08] and the number of the parking and some

[3:40:09] of those things will that

[3:40:12] will those be looked at more closely at

[3:40:14] site plan the the things this gentleman

[3:40:16] >> they they can be um site plans the the

[3:40:20] site plan will be reviewed more

[3:40:21] meticulously than the concept plan but

[3:40:23] because we have access to more

[3:40:24] information better uh better civils from the other side, from the developer

[3:40:28] side. However, the concept plan in this

[3:40:31] case is pretty complete. We've looked at

[3:40:34] some of those drive accesses. So, a lot

[3:40:36] of those would stay in the same place.

[3:40:38] Okay.

[3:40:38] >> Um the one question

[3:40:40] >> about and these have been approved

[3:40:42] before by UD do. So, we're we're

[3:40:44] expecting them to to receive their UD do

[3:40:46] permit as part of that process. But

[3:40:48] again, drive-throughs like this exiting,

[3:40:50] if I'm understanding correctly, this is

[3:40:52] the concern is there's not a lot of

[3:40:53] space to stack.

[3:40:55] >> Yeah. there. Yeah, right there.

[3:40:57] >> Um, yeah. So, those we we'll look at

[3:40:59] those for certain. We have

[3:41:01] transportation engineering folks that'll

[3:41:02] look at them.

[3:41:04] >> Okay. We don't want Yeah, because we

[3:41:05] don't want it to back out on into the road.

[3:41:08] >> All right. Thank you. And would you mind

[3:41:10] addressing as you proceed with

[3:41:12] demolition about the how how to uh help

[3:41:16] the neighbors as as there might be some

[3:41:19] current residents in those that building

[3:41:21] that will be looking for a new home?

[3:41:23] >> Yeah. And I I totally understand his

[3:41:24] fear. I've heard about the what he's

[3:41:26] referencing. So Dave and team have been

[3:41:28] in there clearing out that building for

[3:41:30] the last better part of a month, I

[3:41:31] believe, and they have not seen

[3:41:32] anything. I don't want to speak for you,

[3:41:33] but I believe that's correct. Um we're

[3:41:35] working with um Grandma K to tear down

[3:41:38] the building and we'll work with them on

[3:41:39] any remediation efforts if anything is

[3:41:42] seen in the building until it really

[3:41:44] comes. Unfortunately, I don't know

[3:41:46] there's much that we could do until we

[3:41:49] actually see something.

[3:41:50] >> Yeah, that makes sense. But we're

[3:41:52] >> just being in communication with Yeah.

[3:41:54] with him as far as as that. I just

[3:41:57] remember when the when the orchards near

[3:41:59] my home were developed,

[3:42:01] >> we we had a lot of new residents, little

[3:42:04] tiny little furry guys, cute little

[3:42:06] furry friends arrive.

[3:42:08] >> We, as I've said before, our goal is to

[3:42:10] be a very good member of this community,

[3:42:14] and we have no intention of letting

[3:42:16] critters escape. [laughter]

[3:42:17] >> And I'm not implying that the building

[3:42:19] has critters right now. Yeah,

[3:42:20] >> please know that it's just that's a

[3:42:23] concern I think for when when one does

[3:42:25] redevelopment or a development is is the

[3:42:27] that um animal impact on the neighbor on

[3:42:30] the

[3:42:31] >> I've heard the concern from him and I I

[3:42:33] I've heard of you know the stories from

[3:42:34] before and Dave and the rest of my team

[3:42:37] here like this to make sure that we're

[3:42:39] on top of it um last week.

[3:42:41] >> Thank you.

[3:42:42] >> Can I ask a good question?

[3:42:43] >> Yes. Um council,

[3:42:44] >> so what is your timeline for

[3:42:45] construction? You say you're gonna

[3:42:47] demolition is

[3:42:49] pending.

[3:42:50] >> Demolition is scheduled for 3 PM

[3:42:52] tomorrow if anyone's interested uh to

[3:42:54] start.

[3:42:55] >> And then construction is we are already

[3:42:58] going through the process. Once this is

[3:43:00] submitted, we are already ready to go

[3:43:02] through the site plan um submission

[3:43:05] process and building pro process. Our

[3:43:07] goal is to open this as soon as

[3:43:08] physically possible.

[3:43:10] >> Okay. Thank you.

[3:43:11] >> Thank you. Um is there anybody else? I

[3:43:14] guess the public hearing is still open.

[3:43:16] Is there anyone else who would like

[3:43:17] Okay, if you please come up and

[3:43:18] introduce yourself and you will have up

[3:43:21] to three minutes. Welcome.

[3:43:25] >> Thank you, city council members. I'm

[3:43:26] Wayne Barney. Um lived here in this

[3:43:28] neighborhood for 33 years. Um lived

[3:43:31] directly behind it. Uh grateful for the

[3:43:32] Clyde company to come up because we have

[3:43:35] been through this for probably 20 plus

[3:43:37] years trying to figure out what was

[3:43:38] going to go on. Uh the iDrive people

[3:43:40] have been good neighbors. We've

[3:43:41] appreciated that. Uh the one thing is

[3:43:43] and I've shown the the gentleman here

[3:43:45] that are with neers currently there are

[3:43:48] probably 3 to four foot of grass that's

[3:43:50] out there and those little neighbors

[3:43:51] that you're talking about two things.

[3:43:53] One they'll come from that but two I'm

[3:43:55] worried about the fire danger because I

[3:43:57] think in the last two years they've not

[3:43:58] cut the grass at all. Um but right now

[3:44:01] and I they were very good. I was just

[3:44:02] talking with them and showed them and

[3:44:03] said hey before you start that

[3:44:05] demolition tomorrow let's let's do some

[3:44:07] preparation here. Um in the back alley

[3:44:09] it's full of garbage. Homeless people

[3:44:11] have been living back there. trees are

[3:44:12] overgrown into the neighbors trees. If

[3:44:14] you start ripping that building down, my

[3:44:16] dad was the fire chief of Provo City for

[3:44:18] a long time and and uh there is a lot of

[3:44:21] danger out there and it goes right up to

[3:44:23] our fences and there's wood fences.

[3:44:25] Those fences go right up to our homes. I

[3:44:27] don't think they should be able to start

[3:44:28] ripping it down unless they've done some

[3:44:30] preparation. Clean the fields out. Get a weed eater in there. Clean

[3:44:33] everything out. that back lobby or that

[3:44:36] back alleyway that's just directly

[3:44:38] behind U Keith Walker's home is filled

[3:44:40] with trash and tents and homeless stuff

[3:44:42] that it comes there every year and in

[3:44:45] order to be able to do that and to be

[3:44:46] safe I think they actually just need to

[3:44:48] do that and those rodents that you're

[3:44:49] talking about they're living in that

[3:44:51] back alley um believe me uh we have we

[3:44:54] had chickens out there and so we would

[3:44:55] set traps and they would come along the

[3:44:57] fences and and there's a lot of rodents

[3:44:58] out there so two things one fire

[3:45:00] mitigation okay it's very important they

[3:45:02] shouldn't start this process as they

[3:45:04] have buildings going down and sparks

[3:45:05] flying because they're cutting things

[3:45:07] until they're prepared. Uh and so um

[3:45:09] just learned it was 3:00 tomorrow. They

[3:45:11] were very good to talk with and I said,

[3:45:12] "Please, please, please don't do this

[3:45:14] without some thought. Um uh we've lived

[3:45:17] there. We've raised our family there for

[3:45:18] the last 31 years. We want to be good

[3:45:20] neighbors, but we want them and we'll

[3:45:22] hold them accountable to being good

[3:45:24] neighbors, too. Believe me, uh we're

[3:45:26] going to have some problems with

[3:45:27] rodents, but more importantly, I'd like

[3:45:29] them to be prepared. But I know the the

[3:45:30] fire marshall's over here and if you

[3:45:32] went looked at I was showing him

[3:45:33] pictures there are weeds that are above

[3:45:35] my waist and they go right up to the

[3:45:37] fence and uh I could throw a match out

[3:45:39] there and that whole field would go

[3:45:40] tomorrow. Obviously don't want to do

[3:45:42] that. Grateful that we didn't have

[3:45:43] fireworks this year everybody even

[3:45:45] though I love fireworks. I thought that

[3:45:47] was a smart thing to do. But um I think

[3:45:50] everything else other than that they've

[3:45:51] done a pretty good job coming back with

[3:45:52] this program. But please uh let's be

[3:45:55] safe. And I was going to ask the fire

[3:45:56] marsh who I call to be able to have them

[3:45:58] come look at it before they start doing

[3:45:59] it because it is a fire hazard right now

[3:46:02] and it's dead and dry. And I just ask

[3:46:04] them to consider that. Thank you.

[3:46:07] >> So sir, it sounds like you've got maybe

[3:46:09] something on your to-do list before from

[3:46:11] 7:00 a.m. to 2:45 p.m. tomorrow.

[3:46:14] >> You got that down? Okay. So you'll be in

[3:46:16] connect contact to work on to work on

[3:46:19] that because Yeah. Thank you.

[3:46:23] Anybody else like to speak to this item?

[3:46:27] Seeing none, I go ahead and close the

[3:46:29] public hearing and bring this back to

[3:46:32] the city council

[3:46:34] for your discussion or and or action.

[3:46:44] What's your plan for that um drive-thru

[3:46:47] business on the south? Yeah.

[3:46:56] uh on the south end uh along State

[3:46:58] Street. We were uh we don't have any

[3:47:00] definitive plans, but we were looking

[3:47:02] for some type of a restaurant to be

[3:47:03] there. Um the drive-thru was designed

[3:47:05] such that it could hold I I think when

[3:47:08] we did the count it was to 15 cars

[3:47:10] before it spills into any of the

[3:47:12] exterior parking. So the restaurant concept is our plan for that.

[3:47:15] So, I had a resident ask me to ask you

[3:47:19] to um that we would love to have an

[3:47:21] In-N-Out, the north end of Oram,

[3:47:24] >> and I think that south in-n-out could do with some help.

[3:47:28] >> That would be amazing, but I think that

[3:47:30] would cause more issues as far as

[3:47:31] parking and backup drive-throughs than

[3:47:33] anything else we've talked about.

[3:47:34] >> I did ask though, right? Okay.

[3:47:44] » All right. Council, is there any other

[3:47:45] discussion?

[3:47:49] » Yes, Council Member Lamson.

[3:47:51] >> I I just want to to thank the applicant

[3:47:54] and Jared staff for uh presenting this

[3:47:57] so so well. Um and also uh the

[3:48:00] residents, Mr. Walker and Mr. Barney. Uh

[3:48:03] always appreciate your extra insights

[3:48:06] um looking at things with a with a very

[3:48:09] fine detail and a fine tooth comb. and I

[3:48:12] just appreciate your continual

[3:48:16] uh just being involved. Thank you.

[3:48:19] >> All right. Thank you.

[3:48:22] Anyone else?

[3:48:25] What would you like to do? Would you

[3:48:26] like to take some action on this

[3:48:27] council?

[3:48:31] member Kilpac.

[3:48:33] [gasps and sighs]

[3:48:38] So at 101.

[3:48:45] » So as we uh look at that then I mayor I

[3:48:47] move that we um amend

[3:48:52] through ordinance the amending appendix

[3:48:56] 0000 of the ORM city code by altering

[3:48:59] the existing concept plan for the PD53

[3:49:02] zone located generally at 890 1890 North

[3:49:05] State Street.

[3:49:06] >> Thank you. Have a motion. Is there a

[3:49:08] second?

[3:49:08] >> Second.

[3:49:09] >> All right. Thank you, Council Member

[3:49:10] Lamson.

[3:49:12] Any further discussion?

[3:49:15] All right. We'll start with you, Council

[3:49:16] Member Gail.

[3:49:18] >> I

[3:49:23] >> And Quinn

[3:49:24] >> I know it's the middle of the night.

[3:49:27] Thank you. All right. Motion um passes.

[3:49:31] Thank you.

[3:49:32] Our next item on the agenda is another

[3:49:34] public hearing and it's 10.2 amending

[3:49:38] article 22-5-3A

[3:49:40] and the zoning map of the city of ORM by

[3:49:42] changing the zone of the properties

[3:49:44] located generally at 360 west 1500 south

[3:49:48] from PF public facilities to R12 and R12

[3:49:52] single family residential. I did almost

[3:49:55] again. So they're they they are

[3:49:57] currently PF public facilities and R12

[3:50:00] to reszone those all to R8 single family

[3:50:03] residential and it's approximately 5.93

[3:50:06] acres. And we'll turn the time over to

[3:50:09] Mr. Hall.

[3:50:11] >> Thank you. Um so yeah, this is it's 5.45

[3:50:15] acres. I 5.93 is a misprint. I'm I

[3:50:17] apologize. 5.45 acres. We had another

[3:50:20] project that was recently on that was

[3:50:22] 5.93. probably pasted that number badly,

[3:50:25] but this has brought back that 2253A

[3:50:28] amending the map that you all know and

[3:50:30] love that number 2253A. So, these

[3:50:33] properties that are part of the the um

[3:50:35] project are in two different zones as

[3:50:36] you mentioned, mayor, the PF public

[3:50:38] facilities and the R12 zone. Um the

[3:50:41] planning commission held a hearing. Um

[3:50:43] they had an earlier hearing was

[3:50:45] continued to June 3rd where they did

[3:50:46] finally uh make a decision and vote 6

[3:50:49] to0 to recommend approval of the change

[3:50:51] of zoning to R8 for all of those

[3:50:53] different properties. Um this is an

[3:50:56] outline of the properties that are

[3:50:58] involved and as I said they're in two

[3:50:59] different zones but they are all in the

[3:51:00] same land use designation in the general

[3:51:02] plan. Uh it's all in the in the R sorry

[3:51:05] in the lowdensity residential

[3:51:07] designation.

[3:51:08] Um this is the zoning map. So you can

[3:51:12] see the the different the PF zone is the

[3:51:14] portion owned by the city and this is

[3:51:16] the R12 portion here. Uh this part is

[3:51:19] necessary to be part of the subdivision

[3:51:22] um to get to the city-owned property and uh included in that subdivision. Um

[3:51:28] it makes it work better with the road uh

[3:51:30] coming through if those are R8 lots.

[3:51:33] They're larger than 8,000 ft², but it

[3:51:35] works better uh than the 12. Um, this is

[3:51:38] a concept. So, it's I apologize. It's

[3:51:40] flipped on its side there a little bit,

[3:51:42] but you can still see that basic shape.

[3:51:44] So, this is that road 1600 south coming

[3:51:46] up and then it would curve through. It

[3:51:49] could either go through or it could

[3:51:50] culde-sac. We've we've illustrated the

[3:51:52] culdesac version here. It seemed to be

[3:51:53] the most popular. At the neighborhood

[3:51:55] meeting, we did hold a neighborhood

[3:51:56] meeting as required uh by the code for

[3:51:59] this. Uh, that was held back in

[3:52:01] February. I'm trying to remember. It's

[3:52:02] been a long time since February, but I

[3:52:05] believe it was February. Um,

[3:52:08] a couple of things to note about the

[3:52:09] concept subdivision that we've uh

[3:52:12] prepared. It does allow for 18 uh single

[3:52:15] family lots in that R8 zone. It could be

[3:52:18] culde-sac or go through. Um, it allows

[3:52:20] some connections of sewer and water um

[3:52:23] and then access for budding properties

[3:52:25] to the east. We we've held out a larger

[3:52:27] easement that would allow access for the

[3:52:28] properties on the east side uh to access

[3:52:31] their properties and or develop in the

[3:52:32] future uh if they'd like to. this this

[3:52:36] concept um plan. This one is to

[3:52:39] illustrate the outline of the property

[3:52:40] cuz I think it's hard to see in our

[3:52:42] other concept plans. So, this one though

[3:52:44] shows you better the detail. This would

[3:52:45] be a an easement that would allow us to

[3:52:47] connect those utilities um from 1600

[3:52:50] south to the north. Uh it helps with

[3:52:53] sewer problems and issues that we have

[3:52:54] in this area connecting that sewer. Uh

[3:52:56] loops the water lines. Um we could also

[3:52:58] provide pedestrian access if this were

[3:53:00] culde-sac. could still provide

[3:53:02] pedestrian access out to the north uh as

[3:53:04] well. So that that helps out a lot as

[3:53:07] well. Um

[3:53:09] are there other questions that you might

[3:53:11] have about this property?

[3:53:12] >> I have a couple questions and so uh one I' I've talked to council member

[3:53:18] Millet about but I I'm going to ask

[3:53:21] somebody else beside no no offense but

[3:53:23] somebody a staff member to give the same

[3:53:25] an to give me the answer. Well I asked

[3:53:27] the other question is why why was it

[3:53:29] zone PF? But the first question I'm

[3:53:31] going to ask is because I've asked u Mr.

[3:53:33] Hall this before is uh what what was the

[3:53:38] zoning of this of the city-owned

[3:53:40] property before it became PF zone?

[3:53:43] >> It was zoned R I was about to say R8 but

[3:53:47] I think it was either R8 or R12.

[3:53:49] >> It was R8 or R12. So it was already a

[3:53:51] low density residential single family

[3:53:53] zone.

[3:53:53] >> Okay. Another question I have is the

[3:53:56] city the applicant I'm looking we did

[3:53:59] were we the applicant on behalf of the

[3:54:01] other is the other property owner here

[3:54:02] >> Mr. Licky.

[3:54:03] >> Okay. Okay. I didn't know if you wanted

[3:54:05] to add anything. Okay. You don't have

[3:54:08] I'm not going to make you I just wanted

[3:54:09] to give you the opportunity to that.

[3:54:12] Okay. So I come back and ask what what

[3:54:14] was the reason why this property was

[3:54:17] zoned PF?

[3:54:21] This is before my time. So, I'll give a

[3:54:23] I'll give at least an initial summary

[3:54:25] answer and then Steve and Gary can add

[3:54:28] to if if there's anything I'm I'm

[3:54:29] missing. So, at the time that we uh

[3:54:33] added that public facility zone, uh we

[3:54:35] did it for all of the uh uh

[3:54:39] publiclyowned uh properties within the

[3:54:41] city. Um and and

[3:54:45] from my recollection, the main uh

[3:54:47] purpose of that was to preserve all of

[3:54:50] the open space uh within the city uh to

[3:54:54] the best we can andor make sure that the

[3:54:56] city was part of um

[3:55:00] uh that the city was more involved, had

[3:55:03] a had a greater voice, that there would

[3:55:05] be sort of greater kind of public input

[3:55:08] in the event that uh uh there was any

[3:55:11] change in the development or the zone

[3:55:13] from there

[3:55:14] >> like like what we're having right now.

[3:55:17] >> Correct.

[3:55:17] >> Okay.

[3:55:18] >> So, uh thank you. Question. Uh in an R8

[3:55:23] zone, are parks allowed in an R8 and an

[3:55:25] R12 zone?

[3:55:26] >> Yes.

[3:55:27] >> So, so those are as permitted uses

[3:55:30] >> peritted uses in this in that zoning and

[3:55:32] in the PF zone as well.

[3:55:33] >> And in the PF zone as well. change of

[3:55:35] zoning doesn't impact that whether it

[3:55:36] could be a park or development as a park

[3:55:39] would not be impacted by this particular

[3:55:40] change of zoning.

[3:55:41] >> Okay. Because I know the city's looked

[3:55:42] at the possibilities of that. I And

[3:55:45] anyway, council, I don't mean to be

[3:55:47] hoggish with questions, but if do you

[3:55:49] have any questions for Mr. Hall?

[3:55:53] He's also the applicant. So,

[3:55:57] okay, we don't have any questions. So,

[3:56:00] we're going to go ahead and um I'm going

[3:56:03] to go ahead and open the public hearing.

[3:56:05] Um just as a note, we did receive some

[3:56:07] emails from some individuals who were

[3:56:10] not able to attend this evening who

[3:56:12] wanted to give feedback and the city

[3:56:13] council received those those emails in

[3:56:17] their work session. And so, I don't know

[3:56:20] if any pe any anybody who emailed in

[3:56:22] before our meeting uh is listening, but

[3:56:25] we did receive we did receive those and

[3:56:27] had a chance to review those. So, I'm

[3:56:29] going to go ahead and open up the public

[3:56:31] hearing. And if there's anyone here this

[3:56:34] evening who would like to speak to this

[3:56:36] issue, I invite you to come up,

[3:56:37] introduce yourself, and you have up to

[3:56:39] three minutes to to share your thoughts

[3:56:43] with us. Thank you.

[3:56:48] » Thank you. Um, Steve Sammon, I have

[3:56:51] property adjacent on the east side of

[3:56:54] the the city property. We own a house, a

[3:56:57] barn, and the lot that are just right

[3:56:59] next to each other.

[3:57:02] Um, my only question is one of the

[3:57:04] previous meetings you mentioned. If it

[3:57:06] does become a park,

[3:57:09] the parking lot, um, you you said

[3:57:12] there's the easement is going to be

[3:57:13] taken care of so that we have access

[3:57:16] those those properties on that east

[3:57:18] side,

[3:57:19] >> right? There's there's a large easement.

[3:57:21] I just you mentioned in the previous

[3:57:23] meeting that the city doesn't always

[3:57:26] give uh access from a parking lot in a

[3:57:30] park situation.

[3:57:31] >> Yeah. Not not always.

[3:57:32] >> It's not impossible.

[3:57:33] >> Okay. That's really my only concern is

[3:57:35] we just want uh we have the barn, we

[3:57:38] have the lot. We would like to develop

[3:57:40] it sometime.

[3:57:41] >> Um and so we just want to make sure we

[3:57:43] get an easement for

[3:57:44] >> that is in the event that if if it

[3:57:46] becomes a park.

[3:57:46] >> Yeah. If it if it if it becomes a

[3:57:48] neighborhood, I don't think it's an

[3:57:49] issue. Okay. But you had mentioned that

[3:57:52] before and I just remembered. Yeah. So

[3:57:53] that's my my only thing is we just want

[3:57:55] to have an easement for for Thank you.

[3:57:56] >> Okay. Thank you.

[3:57:58] >> Is anyone else who'd like to speak to

[3:57:59] this?

[3:58:01] >> All right. You come up, introduce

[3:58:02] yourself, and you'll have up to three

[3:58:04] minutes to share your thoughts. Welcome.

[3:58:07] >> Y um Joseph Creer. We are the property

[3:58:10] owners that are exactly north of the

[3:58:12] development. We are landlocked in

[3:58:15] between the deadend street 1450 South

[3:58:19] and the condominiums.

[3:58:21] And so we're hoping to get access to the

[3:58:24] two full acres that that are right

[3:58:26] there. We have no sewer connection.

[3:58:29] We've been working with the city for 2

[3:58:30] years this June. Um we are planning

[3:58:35] hoping that the street name is called

[3:58:37] Sunflower Dunes if you guys can see it

[3:58:38] on your map. Um, but we are trying to uh

[3:58:43] put in what would be four homes for my

[3:58:47] siblings and myself. U my parents live

[3:58:51] on that street. They've been there for

[3:58:52] 50 years. This is one of those legacy, I

[3:58:55] guess, projects. But we want to thank um

[3:58:58] Jared, all the city council members, the

[3:59:00] civil engineers, everybody who've worked

[3:59:02] so hard to help us um to develop. We're

[3:59:06] in favor of the R8 zone change, of

[3:59:08] course. Um we prefer the culde-sac over

[3:59:12] the through street um due to all the

[3:59:14] constraints on 1400 South. It's a very

[3:59:17] bumpy narrow road. We don't think that

[3:59:19] the through street would ever work

[3:59:21] there, but um we want to thank everybody

[3:59:24] for all of their efforts in making this

[3:59:26] development happen. Thank you guys.

[3:59:28] >> All right. Thank you. Anybody else would

[3:59:30] like to speak to this?

[3:59:34] All right. Seeing none, I'll go ahead

[3:59:35] and close the public hearing. Oh, we got

[3:59:38] one more. just

[3:59:39] >> Okay, Marian, you introduce yourself

[3:59:41] again. And you got up to three minutes.

[3:59:43] >> And I really am looking forward to this

[3:59:47] property being settled

[3:59:49] um to being dealt with. Our home is

[3:59:52] right on 1600 South, 325 West, and we're

[3:59:58] neighbors to Jay Namy Liy. and the sewer

[4:00:02] and connection for all of that parcel

[4:00:06] going north and the stability of

[4:00:09] residential and if it truly was to

[4:00:12] become a park

[4:00:15] that can fulfill a purpose also but the

[4:00:18] connections for water and infrastructure

[4:00:20] and sewer lines are wonderful and I will

[4:00:24] give you some handson feedback about the

[4:00:28] development

[4:00:30] art Arcadia. Arcadia. Jared.

[4:00:32] >> Acadia.

[4:00:33] Acadia. The road is now open and

[4:00:38] it is dispersing traffic already. We

[4:00:41] raised our family in 466 West 1600 South

[4:00:46] or 1640 south. And we know many of those

[4:00:50] neighbors. And I literally was able to

[4:00:54] start asking them, "Have you started

[4:00:56] seeing an increase?" Now, granted, the

[4:00:58] homes aren't all built in, but I will

[4:01:01] tell you the engineering and traffic

[4:01:05] information that more connectivity

[4:01:08] adds to more dispersal and better

[4:01:11] access. It's true. It works quite well.

[4:01:16] So, we're we're very grateful that this

[4:01:18] is going forward. And Jared, the

[4:01:20] question I have for you is,

[4:01:23] have the the test holes been done? I

[4:01:26] didn't quite hear that. And I might have

[4:01:27] stepped out for just a moment.

[4:01:30] >> I don't have an update on those.

[4:01:31] >> Okay. We just aren't sure how much is

[4:01:34] hidden underneath there. And

[4:01:36] >> yes, we we went in and we had uh an

[4:01:40] engineering firm come and uh do some

[4:01:43] test pits and everywhere. That gave us

[4:01:45] enough, this was very early on, that

[4:01:48] gave us enough confidence to take the

[4:01:50] next step forward. One of the things

[4:01:52] then as we've gone on, we in cooperation

[4:01:55] with public works, uh, and I'm sad I

[4:01:58] missed the day, uh, we went out there

[4:02:01] and we dug test pits on every potential

[4:02:04] lot in the buildable areas. Wow.

[4:02:07] >> Where homes would be and we didn't find

[4:02:10] anything that scared us. So, we think

[4:02:14] there is some things there, but we're

[4:02:17] right now at least we feel confident

[4:02:19] moving forward. So, it may be viable and

[4:02:21] we're very happy to hear that also.

[4:02:23] Thank you.

[4:02:24] >> Thank you. Oh, and look at Marian, you

[4:02:26] started a trend.

[4:02:28] >> All right. Welcome.

[4:02:29] >> I'm Marcus Jones. Um, I'm one of the

[4:02:32] properties that's near the park as well

[4:02:33] at 1645 South 300 West. Um, I guess for

[4:02:38] me, I I feel like we're talking about

[4:02:41] like the plans of all these and what the

[4:02:43] layout is and everything and the

[4:02:44] proposed plan. Um, but that plan has

[4:02:47] homes on it. it has lots that are being

[4:02:49] proposed, I guess, is the thing. And I

[4:02:51] feel like that's telling me already that

[4:02:53] it's not going to move into a park

[4:02:54] direction. Um, and with that, I think it kind of changes my mindset of, okay,

[4:03:00] well, sure, there may be a park that's

[4:03:02] included in this R8 zoning and stuff,

[4:03:04] but highly, it's going to go to a

[4:03:06] developer and get developed, I guess.

[4:03:08] Um, even with that though, whether we

[4:03:11] build a park or not, the infrastructure

[4:03:12] would still come in because you still

[4:03:13] need bathrooms and stuff, though. So, I

[4:03:16] think um protecting the green space like

[4:03:20] we talked about, right? Like this is a high dense area. There's

[4:03:24] buildings that are right just north of

[4:03:27] that too of apartment buildings. If you

[4:03:29] go um to the west, even though there

[4:03:33] looks like there's a big green lot there

[4:03:34] and stuff, that's all been developed out

[4:03:36] now too into homes as well. Um,

[4:03:40] but you know, I think I think for me

[4:03:42] it's um

[4:03:45] this is a public facilities property and

[4:03:48] I don't think we're thinking about it

[4:03:49] like that right now. We're thinking

[4:03:50] about it as how can we get this off our

[4:03:52] books so then we can develop it. I guess

[4:03:54] though and I think bringing it back to

[4:03:57] well, what can we actually build here

[4:03:58] that would help the community out

[4:03:59] instead? it should be the priority

[4:04:01] instead. Without a significant um

[4:04:06] I guess benefit to the community, I

[4:04:09] don't see why we would reszone,

[4:04:11] but thanks.

[4:04:12] >> All right. Thank you. I appreciate your

[4:04:14] thoughts. All right. Is there anyone

[4:04:16] else?

[4:04:19] Welcome. If you introduce yourself and

[4:04:21] you got up to three minutes.

[4:04:22] >> Yeah. I'm Jay Lake. I should say

[4:04:24] something. Um, so

[4:04:27] I really want uh we live in a city and

[4:04:31] we need to get along with the neighbors.

[4:04:32] I really want the sewer to go through

[4:04:34] and um the neighbors to be happy. I you

[4:04:36] know being an outdoors person, I prefer

[4:04:38] the trees, but um if we can have a few

[4:04:42] trees left when we do houses, I guess

[4:04:43] it'll be all right. But um my concern is

[4:04:46] I don't want the street going through.

[4:04:49] So I mean know this is issue is not

[4:04:51] about that at all. So, but if that I

[4:04:53] prefer the culde-sac

[4:04:55] way and um many of the neighbors swear

[4:04:59] up and down there's hundreds of loads of

[4:05:01] concrete. Maybe the city didn't discover

[4:05:03] it. Hopefully, they don't, but it's

[4:05:05] possible where the they're going to put

[4:05:06] the sewer line, maybe they'll run into

[4:05:08] some issues, but if they have their own

[4:05:11] equipment, they can just keep digging

[4:05:12] and digging and haul it out. And then

[4:05:14] some of us uh own property on the east

[4:05:18] side of the city property. And if you

[4:05:20] looked at the picture, there's a a small

[4:05:22] dirt road that runs north and south.

[4:05:24] They had my my concern is I still want

[4:05:26] access through there. That's the only

[4:05:27] way it can get into my lower level of my

[4:05:30] property. In the winter time, the road's

[4:05:32] really slick. You can't go up the hill.

[4:05:33] And and they they've been cooperative.

[4:05:34] They said we work something out. We just

[4:05:35] have to get away with fire way to get a

[4:05:37] fire truck to um turn in and out. Um, so

[4:05:43] I'm pretty easygoing, but we we want a

[4:05:47] betterment of the community, but um I I would be happier or as an alternative

[4:05:53] just to get the neighbors sewer and just

[4:05:55] to keep it vacant land and trees and and do something. I know that's a

[4:06:00] far-fetched possibility, but being one

[4:06:03] of the only forests left in the a city

[4:06:05] and and the Wasad's front, it's

[4:06:07] something to think about. Thank you.

[4:06:12] If I remember correctly,

[4:06:14] uh this property, the city did not

[4:06:17] purchase this property. It was given to

[4:06:19] the city. Is that correct? Is it only

[4:06:21] given to the city by UD do

[4:06:23] >> as part of another project?

[4:06:25] >> That that's what the the county records

[4:06:27] show. They show that this uh property

[4:06:29] was conveyed to the city in 1976 by UD

[4:06:31] do

[4:06:33] >> and uh I don't think we have any

[4:06:35] records, but my suspicion is that we

[4:06:37] didn't pay anything for that. They just

[4:06:39] conveyed it to us as surplus property.

[4:06:41] >> Okay. And then remind if someone can

[4:06:42] remind me the size of the city owned

[4:06:45] piece of the city owned property. So if

[4:06:47] it's 5.43 minus um the

[4:06:50] >> city- owned portion is I circled it here

[4:06:54] 3.8 acres.

[4:06:55] >> So 3.8 acres is is what it looks like do

[4:07:00] conveyed to the city.

[4:07:01] >> It was actually a much larger parcel

[4:07:03] that UD do conveyed. I'm not sure what

[4:07:05] happened to the rest of it, but this is

[4:07:08] what's left. And it it was act if you

[4:07:11] look at the deed, it actually says it

[4:07:12] was something like 24 acres that they

[4:07:14] conveyed to us.

[4:07:15] >> Interesting.

[4:07:16] >> Yeah.

[4:07:17] >> So, wow. All right. I digress while the

[4:07:20] public hearing is open. Anyone else

[4:07:21] would like to speak to this?

[4:07:24] >> Seeing no one who would like to um

[4:07:27] speak, I'll go ahead and close the

[4:07:28] public hearing and bring it back to the

[4:07:31] council for discussion. Let's discuss.

[4:07:34] can ask some questions.

[4:07:35] >> Okay, Council Member Millet.

[4:07:36] >> Okay, so as was indicated, we received

[4:07:39] some emails right before this meeting.

[4:07:41] So, if we could, and I know this has

[4:07:44] been discussed at different times, but

[4:07:45] let's just make sure we're clear on

[4:07:47] what's happening here and what the

[4:07:50] um implications are. So, they have that

[4:07:53] these neighbors who live next to this

[4:07:55] property have significant concerns

[4:07:57] regarding access. And I believe that's

[4:08:00] the um rear, you know what they've

[4:08:04] talked about. Would you kind of address

[4:08:05] that one first?

[4:08:06] >> Um to the access to the north is the

[4:08:08] career rear family. Um that's the

[4:08:11] Sunflower Dunes project that needs uh

[4:08:14] sewer connection of some kind. There's a

[4:08:15] difficulty in in uh accessing or or

[4:08:19] providing facilities serving this

[4:08:21] property that the career zone. um a a

[4:08:24] street coming up into here and

[4:08:25] development of this property would run a

[4:08:27] sewer line, allow us to connect that out

[4:08:29] here and then serve them with sewer and

[4:08:31] other properties in here. There's a lot

[4:08:33] of properties on the east that are also

[4:08:34] on septic that can be served with sewer

[4:08:37] as well.

[4:08:37] >> Can I give you an address without uh

[4:08:39] 1554 South 325 West?

[4:08:41] >> Okay,

[4:08:42] >> that's the individual who has this

[4:08:44] concern.

[4:08:44] >> Okay,

[4:08:45] >> so is this

[4:08:46] >> the concern is about access or about

[4:08:49] >> access, safety, and infrastructure. So,

[4:08:51] I think we've answered most of these,

[4:08:52] but the the access is going to be to the

[4:08:54] rear property. Yeah.

[4:08:55] >> Safety's the fire um chief's you know,

[4:08:59] access there and then the

[4:09:00] infrastructures, the sewer, water.

[4:09:03] >> Maybe just review all those briefly so

[4:09:05] we can um indicate we've received these

[4:09:08] and we want to really address their

[4:09:09] concerns.

[4:09:10] >> That's a great that's great. Let me do it this this way probably. So,

[4:09:14] in terms of access, what what we're able

[4:09:16] to do, you can see um Jay referred to

[4:09:18] that dirt road that runs along the east

[4:09:20] kind of spine of this property. Um

[4:09:23] that's this area here. And you can see

[4:09:25] that dash those dash lines. Those would

[4:09:26] all be easement uh that we can allow

[4:09:28] access for these folks to get to their

[4:09:31] properties if they need to across the

[4:09:32] back of these others. Um these are these

[4:09:35] are large enough to be R8 properties and

[4:09:38] still provide that kind of easement. uh

[4:09:40] they could these folks could get to

[4:09:42] their properties when they need it. We

[4:09:43] could provide sewer to their properties.

[4:09:45] Um it's here in the road, but they could

[4:09:47] run through those utility easements and

[4:09:49] let them be sewered finally after the

[4:09:51] years of being on septic if should they

[4:09:52] choose to do that. Um there's even

[4:09:55] enough land that we could provide uh a a

[4:09:58] roadway or some sort of private road for

[4:10:00] them to serve flag lots if they wanted

[4:10:02] to. A lot of those properties are large.

[4:10:04] They could develop in the future if they

[4:10:05] wanted to. That would of course be up to

[4:10:07] them. We would just provide the easement

[4:10:08] as part of our subdivision. That's a

[4:10:10] commitment that we made during the

[4:10:11] neighborhood meeting and

[4:10:13] >> please show the fire access.

[4:10:14] >> Okay. And fire access.

[4:10:15] >> I don't know what happened to ours. My

[4:10:17] screen's blank. Is your screen

[4:10:18] >> right now? Those folks are all these

[4:10:20] properties. Um, let me go back to this.

[4:10:22] So these properties fire would be fought

[4:10:25] on those properties from this road here,

[4:10:26] not from the backside. Um, so I'm not

[4:10:29] sure about the fire access question

[4:10:30] unless they were to develop a flag

[4:10:33] >> for the subdivision. The new

[4:10:34] subdivision.

[4:10:34] >> Yeah. In the subdivision. fire access

[4:10:37] for the subdivision would go up into the

[4:10:38] this is a standard culde-sac. It's not

[4:10:39] too long. It meets all of our normal

[4:10:41] emergency

[4:10:43] access for that. So there's there's no

[4:10:44] question on on the subdivision that

[4:10:46] we're sort of in concept proposing for

[4:10:48] fire access or emergency services.

[4:10:50] That's all well served. It is steep.

[4:10:52] That's for sure. Coming up this hill

[4:10:54] right here, this would be fairly steep,

[4:10:56] but those grades all get approved as

[4:10:57] part of the subdivision process. We have

[4:10:59] to look at all of that and that corner.

[4:11:02] The the chief loves 90° angles wherever

[4:11:04] we can get them. I know. Um but uh they

[4:11:08] we'll put that through its paces. It has

[4:11:10] to meet all of our standards.

[4:11:12] >> But one thing with this, if we can go

[4:11:15] back to the uh map, the

[4:11:18] >> Do you want the subdivision map, Gary,

[4:11:19] or the aerial?

[4:11:20] >> Subdivision map.

[4:11:21] >> I I'm on the subdivision map, but we've

[4:11:23] got a

[4:11:24] >> Yeah, we keep

[4:11:25] >> There we go.

[4:11:25] That utility uh access

[4:11:29] between uh uh lot C6 and lot C5. that

[4:11:35] goes up there. If you can see that. Um,

[4:11:38] no, no, no, no, no. Off the bulb of the

[4:11:42] culdeac. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, right

[4:11:43] there. [laughter]

[4:11:44] >> That it that's where some water sewer

[4:11:48] can come down and that's how we can get

[4:11:51] sewer from people who are on septic

[4:11:54] north of this area. It would provide a

[4:11:57] way for them to hook into the city

[4:11:59] system also. But that uh access that

[4:12:02] we're talking about would also be a

[4:12:04] pedestrian access that in emergency

[4:12:07] situations, emergency vehicles would be

[4:12:10] able to get through there and provide

[4:12:13] more safety to the neighborhood uh with

[4:12:16] that. So while uh there would not be

[4:12:18] routine cars driving through that, it

[4:12:21] still would provide uh connections

[4:12:23] between the neighborhoods for

[4:12:25] pedestrians, bicyclists, but it also

[4:12:27] would be something we would work with

[4:12:29] public safety that in a very very rare

[4:12:33] emergency, they could use that area

[4:12:35] somehow.

[4:12:36] >> Perfect. And then just kind of to the

[4:12:38] infrastructure addressing the community

[4:12:40] benefit um

[4:12:43] m

[4:12:44] of this helping people connect to city

[4:12:49] sewer.

[4:12:50] >> Sure.

[4:12:50] >> Versus the septic.

[4:12:52] >> So that that's a that's a big benefit

[4:12:54] and I and I gather it's been sort of a

[4:12:56] promise that was made that at some point

[4:12:57] we would provide that kind of access uh

[4:13:00] to city sewer. Um, and then just in

[4:13:03] terms of this is the this is the best

[4:13:06] way to provide that because it it allows

[4:13:08] us some some way to help pay for that as

[4:13:11] well, honestly. So, um, I don't know. Do

[4:13:14] you want to say more about that? I'm not

[4:13:15] sure what else to

[4:13:16] >> I just and I appreciate that you're kind

[4:13:17] of being repetitive here. I I I can

[4:13:20] appreciate that. I'm just trying to make

[4:13:22] sure that as I'm reading these emails

[4:13:24] that we are kind of addressing because

[4:13:26] those people's, you know, or individuals

[4:13:28] aren't able to be here. So,

[4:13:29] >> yeah. No, I understand. Thank you.

[4:13:33] All right, council. Any other

[4:13:35] discussion?

[4:13:40] I have a question. Is uh how long ago

[4:13:42] was this zone PF's zone?

[4:13:47] » I believe in 2022.

[4:13:49] >> So, it it was residential from whenever

[4:13:53] >> from way back

[4:13:54] >> to 2022.

[4:13:55] >> Yep. And so and it's been public

[4:13:58] facilities and that was that that action

[4:14:00] was taken as as I recall a blanket just

[4:14:03] reszone every piece of property that the

[4:14:05] city owns.

[4:14:06] >> Yes.

[4:14:07] >> Within the its city limits.

[4:14:09] >> Yes.

[4:14:09] >> To PF.

[4:14:10] >> Yes.

[4:14:11] >> So there wasn't a direct

[4:14:13] >> like saying we're going to reszone

[4:14:16] this piece. It was just

[4:14:18] >> correct. Yeah. It wasn't that hey we're

[4:14:19] zoning this PF for a specific purpose at

[4:14:22] that time. It was a blanket. All city

[4:14:24] property was

[4:14:25] >> and school property, wasn't it?

[4:14:26] >> And school district property, too. Yes.

[4:14:28] >> Okay. Okay. I remember reading about

[4:14:30] that.

[4:14:30] >> Yes.

[4:14:31] >> So, okay. Thank you. Uh, Mr. McCann, did

[4:14:34] you have a comment?

[4:14:35] >> Yes. Someone uh I can't remember who

[4:14:38] made a comment something about uh this

[4:14:41] could be a possibly a park and change

[4:14:44] and what's the city benefit? As we've

[4:14:47] looked at this area, this city property

[4:14:50] has been listed in the 2021 parks master

[4:14:55] plan as a possibility of a park there.

[4:14:58] But it also acknowledges that in this

[4:15:00] southwest area, uh, this neighborhood is

[4:15:04] served by, you know, several parks. Uh,

[4:15:07] you've got Nelson's Grove just to the

[4:15:09] south, Cherry Hill, and another park in

[4:15:12] the area. And the nature of the

[4:15:15] property, as you're probably aware,

[4:15:17] makes it difficult to really be a usable

[4:15:20] park. And so with that in mind, uh you

[4:15:24] know, what could we do to make this a

[4:15:26] park? What might the cost be to create a

[4:15:29] park and the usefulness of the wider

[4:15:32] community? And one of the driving forces

[4:15:35] behind this in my mind was if we could

[4:15:39] take this property, not spend the money

[4:15:42] that would go into building a frankly

[4:15:46] marginal park. It is uh a beautiful

[4:15:49] piece of ground, but it is difficult to

[4:15:52] uh build and maintain

[4:15:54] and we could

[4:15:57] develop it because it's our our property

[4:16:00] and have the infrastructure in and then

[4:16:04] sell the lots off to be homes. You would

[4:16:07] have homes that could strengthen a

[4:16:10] neighborhood bringing in uh uh

[4:16:13] individual owners. And as a city, since

[4:16:15] it's our property, um we've talked with

[4:16:19] uh residents that we could do things and

[4:16:22] think about uh ensuring that they are

[4:16:25] owner occupied and possibly doing deed

[4:16:29] restrictions and things like that to to

[4:16:31] ensure that one they have owner

[4:16:33] occupancy in the area. By doing this and

[4:16:36] building the infrastructure, we can work

[4:16:38] with like the careers and the people to

[4:16:41] the east and those who are on septic.

[4:16:44] Now we have a vehicle to put in the

[4:16:47] infrastructure where careers could

[4:16:49] develop. Uh neighbors could get on

[4:16:52] septic system. Uh adjoining property

[4:16:55] owners to the east could cooperate with

[4:16:57] us and in some sort of cost sharing way

[4:17:01] be able to develop the backside of their

[4:17:03] property. And then as we've looked at

[4:17:05] it, a developer at the end of the day

[4:17:08] wants to make a profit. Uh we don't want

[4:17:12] to make a profit. We want it to work and

[4:17:15] function and then we want to give that

[4:17:17] money. That would happen and the council

[4:17:19] would have it and one of our suggestions

[4:17:21] would be now take this money and where

[4:17:25] can we in the southwest area which has

[4:17:27] one of our greatest needs for parks as

[4:17:30] it's developing. Can we leverage that

[4:17:33] into a more usable park in a more in a

[4:17:36] better area from the standpoint of being

[4:17:39] more easily accessible to the community

[4:17:42] at large? So, I think those are some of

[4:17:45] the community benefits that we see by

[4:17:48] doing this rather than just merely a

[4:17:51] park there that the community as a whole

[4:17:54] uh really can benefit on many many

[4:17:57] levels uh because of this action.

[4:18:00] All right. Thank you. Thank you for the

[4:18:03] um explanation.

[4:18:05] [gasps] All right, council. Any other

[4:18:07] discussion?

[4:18:10] » Mayor,

[4:18:11] >> I hear voice. Okay.

[4:18:13] >> Um I

[4:18:15] >> I appreciate your sharing that. And I

[4:18:17] just want to say that I I do support the

[4:18:20] reason on this. Um I think that there's

[4:18:23] clear benefit in helping uh connect

[4:18:25] people to the sewer. Uh I think

[4:18:28] particularly if we can have deed

[4:18:30] restrictions that limit these homes to

[4:18:33] uh owner occupied homes that it helps us

[4:18:35] with our uh housing affordability

[4:18:37] questions. And I I'm fully supportive of

[4:18:40] the idea that as we potentially make

[4:18:44] profit from selling some of those lots

[4:18:46] that we uh put that into open space and

[4:18:50] parks in the city to benefit the

[4:18:52] community. Thanks.

[4:18:55] >> All right. Thank you, Council Member

[4:18:57] Mikum.

[4:18:58] All right, council. If there's no

[4:19:00] further discussion, would you like to

[4:19:02] take some some sort of action?

[4:19:04] >> I can make a motion. Um, I move that by

[4:19:07] ordinance we amend article 2253A

[4:19:10] and the zoning map of this city of ORM

[4:19:13] by changing the zone of the properties

[4:19:15] located generally at 360 West 1500 South

[4:19:19] from PF public facilities

[4:19:22] to R8 single family residential with the

[4:19:27] intent of

[4:19:29] um I'm not sure how to say this but

[4:19:31] financing another park in in Oram. How

[4:19:34] do I say that? Steve,

[4:19:36] >> do you want to include We need to

[4:19:37] include the R12 in

[4:19:39] >> Oh, and the and um R12 single family

[4:19:42] residential.

[4:19:44] >> So, your motion includes So, just to

[4:19:46] make sure.

[4:19:46] >> You want me to read that again? Located.

[4:19:48] >> You can read again. Yeah.

[4:19:49] >> From located generally at 360 West, 1500

[4:19:52] South from PF public facilities and R12

[4:19:55] single family residential to R8 single

[4:19:58] family residential

[4:20:01] with the approximately 5.45 four or five

[4:20:03] acres with the intent of creating

[4:20:05] another park elsewhere in

[4:20:08] >> Is that something is that can we include

[4:20:10] that what a direction on what the the

[4:20:12] sale of the the proceeds?

[4:20:13] >> Sure.

[4:20:14] >> Okay.

[4:20:16] All right. We have a motion. Thank you,

[4:20:17] Council Member Mill. Is there a second?

[4:20:21] >> I second.

[4:20:22] >> Okay. Council member Gail second. Right.

[4:20:26] Okay. Because we had a tie here. All

[4:20:29] right. Is there any further discussion?

[4:20:32] All right. Council member Lamson, how do

[4:20:34] you vote?

[4:20:35] >> I vote I

[4:20:37] >> I.

[4:20:40] >> Council member Mikum.

[4:20:41] >> I

[4:20:44] >> All right. Motion carries. Thank you.

[4:20:49] >> Thank you. And then the next item on our

[4:20:51] agenda is this is financial items.

[4:20:54] Council members, you'll find the

[4:20:55] financial statement in your city council

[4:20:57] meeting packet. And so item number 12 is

[4:21:02] um an opportunity for city manager to

[4:21:05] [gasps] impart information upon us.

[4:21:09] Thank you, mayor and council. Just one

[4:21:10] quick item. You'll notice on your

[4:21:12] calendar there is uh an event coming up

[4:21:14] towards the end of the month. It's a

[4:21:16] collaboration between our arts council

[4:21:18] and the world uh world folk fest

[4:21:22] organization and it'll take place on a Wednesday during our very popular

[4:21:27] farmers market. something new that we're

[4:21:30] um adding as an opportunity for you

[4:21:32] since you are all uh uh wonderfully

[4:21:36] social people loving people. Um we will

[4:21:40] we are we are adding um a tent wherein

[4:21:44] uh you can come and interact with the

[4:21:45] public and in this case you know there

[4:21:48] will be um representatives and

[4:21:50] performers from nine different countries

[4:21:52] around the world. Um, so that that's

[4:21:55] just something we want you to be aware

[4:21:56] of as we as uh our the popularity of our

[4:22:00] events continues. Uh, we want to make

[4:22:02] sure you have an opportunity to interact

[4:22:04] with people and and answer their

[4:22:06] questions and and listen to, you know,

[4:22:09] any feedback they have for us as a city.

[4:22:11] >> So, this is the all things all things or

[4:22:14] that like we did at summer or Oh. Oh,

[4:22:18] here goes another babo. Okay. or fest to

[4:22:22] write on the chalkboard again.

[4:22:24] >> I have to go back. Okay. The white board

[4:22:26] and I are gonna Yes. Is this like we did

[4:22:29] >> it's it's along that same vein in that

[4:22:31] same spirit. Yes.

[4:22:33] >> Yes. Well, while we while we have our

[4:22:35] closed door meeting, I will be spending

[4:22:37] my time at the whiteboard. All right.

[4:22:41] And that concludes this this portion of

[4:22:44] the meeting. Council, I would look for a

[4:22:46] motion to adjourn to a close session in

[4:22:50] the summit conference room to discuss

[4:22:52] pending or reasonably imminent

[4:22:53] litigation, the character or

[4:22:54] professional competence of an individual

[4:22:56] or the purchase and le or lease of real

[4:22:59] property.

[4:23:00] >> So moved.

[4:23:01] >> Right. Thank you, Council Member Kilpac.

[4:23:03] Is there a second?

[4:23:04] >> Second.

[4:23:04] >> Right. Thank you. Second. Who?

[4:23:08] Oh, okay.

[4:23:09] >> M. I

[4:23:11] >> Okay. And so I go ahead and I'll vote I.

[4:23:14] Council member Millet.

[4:23:14] >> I I

[4:23:16] >> I.

[4:23:17] >> Council member Mikum.

[4:23:19] >> I

[4:23:21] >> And you already voted I. All right.

Orem City Council Meeting | 7.14.2026

Transcript