[0:08] like to welcome you to our work session

[0:11] today of the Warm City Council. Uh we

[0:14] have is everybody zooming in? Is

[0:18] everybody on? We have council. Okay. So

[0:23] we have council members, Kilpac, Neil

[0:27] Stein all um joining us virtually

[0:32] and we welcome them and we welcome you

[0:34] all here personally. So we'll go ahead

[0:37] and

[0:39] start with our first item. It's Utah

[0:41] County Major Crimes Update, fiveminute

[0:44] presentation, fivem minutee Q&A, and our

[0:46] presenters are our uh police chief BJ

[0:49] Robinson and Lieutenant Justin Gordon,

[0:52] the UCMC um field director. Welcome.

[0:55] >> Thank you.

[0:56] Mayor and Council. Um Justin

[1:00] Gordon works for the sheriff's office

[1:01] and he's the field director for Utah

[1:04] County Major Crime Task Force. Uh

[1:06] Lieutenant Phil Anderson is an ORM

[1:08] lieutenant. He's the director

[1:11] our task force. He's on vacation or he

[1:13] would be sitting here talking to you

[1:14] today. So, um second fiddle to that. Uh

[1:19] just want to kind of educate and talk to

[1:22] you about our task force. Um it's been

[1:25] on for over two decades. Uh our task

[1:29] force uh the fiduciary of the task force

[1:31] has been with Orland for a majority of

[1:34] that time, just over two decades. Uh and

[1:37] so we work a lot with Brandon and in

[1:40] finance and and things like that to uh

[1:43] you know make the task force run. The uh

[1:45] just this slide is just you know our

[1:48] logo and badge uh for our task force. It

[1:50] shows the agencies from Utah County u

[1:53] the federal partners um that are part of

[1:56] our task force. And so some agencies uh

[1:59] don't have any officers that participate

[2:02] in it. Um some of the larger agencies

[2:04] like us, Provo, um American Fork County

[2:07] have multiple uh officers and uh

[2:10] supervisors that provide support to the

[2:12] task force. Uh so what does the task

[2:15] force do? Uh their primary

[2:17] responsibility is uh drug trafficking

[2:20] organizations and uh drug enforcement uh

[2:23] around you know that affects our county

[2:25] and cities. um gang in enhance gang

[2:29] enforcement uh when needed and then any

[2:32] type of major crime or major incident

[2:34] that occurs where a police agency uh

[2:36] needs extra manpower or I as a chief say

[2:40] hey we need some extra manpower in this

[2:42] type of investigation uh then I would

[2:45] contact uh either Justin or Phil and and

[2:48] request u them to come and help and so

[2:53] that's our county on a map and just kind

[2:55] of shows a few of the the numbers

[2:58] associated with our our partners kind of

[3:00] the makeup of what it is. Uh we are

[3:02] grant funded. Uh there is a state grant

[3:05] that's a CCJJ grant and then a federal H

[3:08] highaida grant highintensity drug

[3:09] trafficking area. Uh then we are one of

[3:13] how many in Utah? I want to say three or

[3:17] four uh different H highaida agencies in Utah. And then the city assessment.

[3:22] So each year, uh, the city's assessed,

[3:26] um, kind of a, um, let's say a fee, just

[3:30] to keep the lights on type of a thing

[3:31] that helps go, uh, for overtime,

[3:34] training, equipment, um, things like

[3:37] that. And that's population based. Um,

[3:39] and that goes up incrementally every so often. Um,

[3:45] and so when I was a younger cop, um, and

[3:51] was a sergeant and I was assigned to the

[3:52] task force in the early 2000s into 2010,

[3:58] uh, the big drug, uh, that was causing

[4:00] our community's problems was meth. And

[4:03] then fast forward to when I was the

[4:05] director in Phil's spot in 27209, it was

[4:08] heroin. Uh fast forward to the last

[4:12] several years and it's now fentanyl. Um

[4:15] and so this just shows and highlights

[4:17] some of the fentanyl seizures year to

[4:19] date from 2025 until current of this is

[4:22] what's coming into our community. Um

[4:25] this, you know, we live in a wonderful

[4:28] place and a wonderful county. Uh we have

[4:31] major drug problems and major drug

[4:33] trafficking organizations that operate

[4:35] in our state and in our county. And so

[4:38] it's not just your

[4:41] uh local dealer uh that you may envision

[4:44] or may see on on a street corner. Uh but

[4:47] these are organizations that are

[4:49] operating in our communities. Uh that

[4:52] part of our uh task force is is is

[4:55] focused on they also focus on, you know,

[4:57] the the neighborhood problems. um but

[5:00] their primary goal is to disrupt uh

[5:04] major drug trafficking organizations.

[5:07] And so those are some just some numbers

[5:10] to throw at you to kind of not shock and

[5:12] awe but to realize the good work that

[5:14] they are doing on a continual basis. Um

[5:20] trying to think of where else to go with

[5:22] some of the mostly I wanted to answer

[5:23] any questions that you may have uh

[5:25] regarding uh the task force or uh what

[5:28] they do. Um

[5:31] but uh

[5:33] one of the things that I appreciate

[5:35] about the task force is when we have

[5:37] like a

[5:39] would say either a homicide or a uh

[5:44] um

[5:45] not more than a missing person but

[5:47] something that where time is of the

[5:49] essence where we need to find a suspect.

[5:52] Um, you know, go back to the the slide

[5:55] before. They bring 38 detectives to bear

[5:58] like that. And they are all highly

[6:00] trained and highly efficient at

[6:02] surveillance, following people. Uh, most

[6:05] for the most part undetected um, and

[6:09] being able to bring a lot of manpower to

[6:11] bear on a incident and support. And I've

[6:14] seen that time and time again in our own

[6:16] agency in ORM and throughout the county

[6:19] of where the task force comes to as a

[6:21] force multiplier to an agency to help

[6:24] with that investigation. Um, and that's

[6:27] one of the other beauties that I

[6:28] appreciate about our task force

[6:30] appreciate about our county of being a

[6:32] chief in this county is the cooperation

[6:34] that we enjoy amongst other agencies uh

[6:38] to help one another out. Um and I think

[6:42] the our task force has operated for

[6:45] decades uh under that same understanding

[6:49] that team effort. Um and it continues

[6:52] on. And so

[6:55] any questions or anything that you would

[6:56] want to add?

[6:59] >> He's here to help and also answer the

[7:02] questions that I don't know. [laughter]

[7:05] » Any questions?

[7:06] >> Um just curious that I mean the amount

[7:08] of seizures is

[7:11] Uh, amazing.

[7:13] Do we have any kind of a I mean a sense

[7:16] of how much of that is getting through

[7:19] that we're not

[7:21] that we're unaware of or that that is

[7:23] just sneaking through somehow.

[7:26] Um, those are I mean that that just

[7:28] blows me away.

[7:30] >> Yeah. So

[7:30] >> that dollar amount,

[7:32] >> not only the dollar amount, but that in

[7:34] 2025 that is 2 million 2 and a.5 million

[7:37] pills of fentanyl. That's how we

[7:40] generally see the fentanyl is in pill

[7:41] form. Um they make it look like other

[7:44] pills, but uh yeah, we're not getting it

[7:48] all. Uh our goal is to, but we aren't.

[7:51] Um we get into these organizations and

[7:54] we we do a take down after our

[7:56] investigation. Uh we shut these

[7:59] organizations down for just a few weeks

[8:01] and then they send up more people, more

[8:03] groups. They're they're cartel related

[8:06] for the most part. That's where they're

[8:07] getting their supplies from. they're here and that's who we're after.

[8:12] Um but yeah, we're um we're not getting

[8:16] it all, but we're trying our best. Uh

[8:18] year to date this year, we've had 30

[8:21] federal indictments just from our

[8:23] investigations, which is is huge. Um

[8:26] that's guys that will guys and gals that

[8:28] will take minimum mandatory sentences in

[8:31] the federal system for distributing

[8:33] drugs around Utah County. By comparison,

[8:37] when I was there maybe 10 years ago and

[8:39] thought we were doing a job, we were

[8:40] happy if we got double digits of federal

[8:43] indictments in a calendar year. And so

[8:45] just the the

[8:49] high level of work that they're doing uh

[8:51] for the feds to to take on a

[8:53] prosecution, everything needs to be

[8:55] buttoned up and uh eyes dotted, tees

[8:58] crossed at the utmost. And uh they're performing at that level.

[9:04] Any any other? Yes.

[9:06] >> So, I tooured the

[9:09] um can't remember what it's called up

[9:11] there by the National Guard, the federal

[9:14] um

[9:17] >> by the point of the mouth.

[9:18] >> Yeah.

[9:19] >> Uh are you talking about the

[9:22] >> NSA facility?

[9:22] >> NSA.

[9:24] >> Yeah.

[9:24] >> On your other slide, you had their name

[9:26] at the bottom, right?

[9:28] >> HSI

[9:30] National Guard counter.

[9:31] >> Oh, okay. Yeah. Um, do you interface

[9:34] with them much?

[9:35] >> Yeah, we have two National Guard

[9:38] counterdrug

[9:40] um,

[9:42] analysts. Yeah, they're assigned to our

[9:43] task force full-time.

[9:45] >> It bounces back between one and two. If

[9:47] they get down numbers, they have to pull

[9:49] one, but right now we have two, and

[9:51] they're doing behind the scenes work,

[9:54] uh, as we, you know, come up with

[9:57] suspect names, plates, addresses.

[9:59] They're they're figuring out stuff for

[10:01] us to tie to this investigation.

[10:04] >> And how many it so I'm I'm trying to

[10:05] figure out county most of what you do is

[10:08] you're in the county. So if things spill

[10:10] over to other

[10:11] >> So we good question.

[10:13] >> We are working to make Utah County a

[10:16] better place. However, if people are

[10:17] dealing drugs here, we will chase them

[10:19] wherever they reside. We spend a lot of

[10:22] time outside our county, but we we look

[10:26] for the ties to our county to keep them

[10:28] out of here.

[10:30] >> And can I just say we're not Happy

[10:32] Valley. We are we're happy here, but

[10:36] there's stuff going on here.

[10:37] >> Absolutely.

[10:38] >> And we appreciate what you're doing.

[10:39] >> Thank you.

[10:43] » So,

[10:44] it sounds like you rotate officers

[10:47] through. How does that is it how does

[10:50] that all

[10:51] >> it be different from agency to agency

[10:53] here in ORM? Uh we usually rotate them

[10:56] around every three to five years uh

[10:58] based upon need and and how they're

[11:00] performing, what needs we have back at

[11:02] the at the home agency. Maybe they

[11:05] promote out of that. Um maybe it's just

[11:07] their time. Um there's there's a it

[11:10] there's a lot of different philosophies

[11:12] on that. Um it does take time. It's a

[11:14] very specialized uh assignment down

[11:16] there and so you need to leave them in

[11:19] there marinating for a while till they

[11:21] get good at it. Um and so you don't want

[11:23] to pull them out just as they're

[11:24] starting to get good and getting

[11:25] traction and then pull them out. So

[11:27] there's there's kind of a sweet spot and

[11:29] sometimes that depends. Sometimes they

[11:30] benefit from uh timing and needs and

[11:33] they're in there for four or five years

[11:34] and sometimes not so much. Um but it

[11:37] does vary from agency to agency on how

[11:39] they choose to rotate uh officers

[11:41] through. So, is that how it works? We

[11:44] have like 30, you said 38 detectives.

[11:46] Are they all 38 detectives are full-time

[11:48] with the UCMC, but ORM sends X number

[11:52] and they're full-time over there. Then

[11:53] they don't necessarily work here.

[11:55] >> So, ORM, we have the field director, the

[11:57] lieutenant, we have two sergeants, and

[11:59] then we have three detectives uh that

[12:01] are assigned there full-time. And so,

[12:04] over the years is um we used to have

[12:07] four and I want to say that was

[12:11] 200

[12:12] nine. Uh we used to have four

[12:15] detectives. Um but just manpower and

[12:18] restructuring sometimes when we're down

[12:19] on patrol. Uh don't like to pull them

[12:21] back from task force uh to come back to

[12:24] patrol. Um but if things got to bare

[12:26] bones then uh we have to staff patrol.

[12:29] So that would be a reason why.

[12:35] » Thank you. Thank you for your service

[12:37] and thank you for your work on this.

[12:38] Appreciate

[12:39] >> your support with this program. I always

[12:41] like to give a shout out to Brandon

[12:42] because uh he helps us uh quite a bit

[12:45] keeping our financials in order and

[12:46] helping us with things and so we try to

[12:48] make that lift as easy as possible but

[12:51] it is a lift nonetheless. Uh so we

[12:53] appreciate ORM being the fiduciary of

[12:55] the task force and it very much is a

[12:57] benefit uh to the task force.

[12:59] >> Thank you guys.

[13:00] >> Thank you.

[13:04] The next item on the agenda is a

[13:06] presentation by Tagert Bowen, city

[13:08] engineer, capital construction project

[13:11] update. 20 minute presentation,

[13:13] 10-minute.

[13:15] There's Tiger. Hello, Tiger.

[13:18] >> Hi.

[13:20] was passes. I don't know if I have

[13:21] enough.

[13:48] It's too scary. All

[13:55] right. I've been asked to provide a

[13:57] presentation

[14:00] for CIP projects stands for capital

[14:03] improvement projects. And I thought it'd

[14:06] be good to have this map just as a

[14:07] reference and then get it later and

[14:12] river look at it while I'm talking

[14:17] up on the

[14:21] screen here showing all the projects.

[14:24] These aren't all construction projects

[14:25] going on right now, but everything that

[14:28] we're either working on coming up in the

[14:29] future or under construction.

[14:33] got them numbered there like uh for

[14:35] example

[14:37] number one open the map on the left side

[14:40] there near 8 north points over to the blue color which is a project Lance

[14:46] excavations working on and

[14:50] just to provide better clarity on the

[14:52] map it's not pointing to every blue but

[14:54] if you look at the different blue areas

[14:55] they're in the middle those are also

[14:57] lands number six points to project that

[15:01] silver spur's working on you can see the

[15:02] other green areas there in the middle.

[15:05] That's part of our tour project. So, got

[15:08] a lot going on. It'd be really hard in

[15:10] just a short time I have to go through

[15:12] every project and talk about everything

[15:14] we're doing, but there is a lot going

[15:15] on. Coordinate.

[15:18] And you can see there the numbering

[15:20] number 1 through 12 in construction.

[15:24] 13 through 18 are projects that have

[15:26] been completed this year.

[15:29] 19 through 28 are currently in the bid

[15:32] award process where we're working with

[15:33] contractors to either get them started

[15:36] on construction this year or they're

[15:38] just been advertised and we're looking

[15:42] at the the proposals and bids received.

[15:46] 29 through 40 are upcoming future

[15:49] projects that were in our design process

[15:52] with our team working hard on those

[15:55] upcoming design projects. And then 41 in

[15:58] the 40s is the mag dot projects that are

[16:01] either coming up or most of those are

[16:04] under construction the big uh road

[16:07] widening type projects on

[16:10] mostly UD do

[16:13] » and mayor as as Tagert said this is as

[16:17] you can see there's so much going on

[16:19] that they're doing we don't have a lot

[16:21] of time to get into detail of each one

[16:25] this is intended to be an overview, give

[16:27] you a flavor. But if there are certain

[16:29] projects that you would like more

[16:31] information on, we can come back and get

[16:34] into more detail on uh those projects.

[16:44] » I wanted to just go over a little bit

[16:47] quickly what a CIP project entails. A

[16:50] lot of times we just see the

[16:52] construction going on. We see the roads

[16:54] being saved, but there's a lot of

[16:57] planning that goes on and all of that. I

[16:59] just want to go through quickly the

[17:01] phases of a capital improvement project.

[17:03] In the beginning, we have our pre-bid

[17:05] phase, which would be our staff's

[17:08] meeting with whoever has requested the

[17:11] project, whether it's public works,

[17:13] fire, police, or any of the departments

[17:16] in ORM that have a need or we're meeting

[17:18] with them trying to understand the scope

[17:19] of the project. We come up with a

[17:22] concept, put together a cost estimate,

[17:24] and then work closely with them to start

[17:26] kind of preparing, fine-tuning what that

[17:29] project entails. Look at right away. We

[17:31] have our city surveyor who will look at

[17:34] impacts to right away, whether we need

[17:36] to purchase right away, get easements.

[17:39] Our designers will will work with any

[17:42] stakeholders whether that's different

[17:45] agencies,

[17:46] property owners, public works and then

[17:51] outlines and specifications.

[17:55] Uh as we create the final plans, stamp

[17:57] those specifications together outlining

[18:00] what we'll be fitting for the project

[18:02] and advertise it.

[18:04] Maybe a proposal or bid award. put that

[18:06] through our online bidding process on

[18:08] Bonfire,

[18:10] the website we use. And then after we

[18:13] receive bids, we review those. We look

[18:15] at references. We make sure the bids are

[18:18] quantities are accurate. We come with We

[18:21] look at references.

[18:23] We put together

[18:25] contract agreements,

[18:28] make sure legal's good with that. We'll

[18:30] set up pre-construction meetings and

[18:33] make sure to look at submittals. We get

[18:35] into the construction phase where kind

[18:38] of all-encompassing for every one of

[18:39] these items is project management where

[18:42] we have a great team that we've got our

[18:45] design engineers that have been involved

[18:47] with planning from the very beginning.

[18:48] And then the construction engineers will

[18:50] come in with their experience and team

[18:52] up to manage the project. And they do a

[18:54] great job making sure

[18:58] following our city standards. So provide

[19:01] uh regular inspections making sure

[19:05] uh plans and standards are uh all our

[19:09] standards are being met. And then in the

[19:12] completion part they'll they'll verify

[19:14] that those items have been completed

[19:17] and then we have our payment performance

[19:18] bon making sure to

[19:22] uh have our warranty in there as well. I

[19:24] just wanted to highlight a few projects.

[19:26] We got some pictures of Dave Spencer

[19:29] over here. He would love this one. This

[19:31] is 950 North. As you can see,

[19:34] >> that one took four years.

[19:38] » That was just me for a year.

[19:41] >> It's been years in the making.

[19:43] [laughter]

[19:44] This is a picture of looking uh west

[19:49] on 950 North Lance putting the water

[19:52] line in. And then

[19:55] >> this is in the same place. You can see

[19:56] that wooden fence on the left. So, same

[20:00] location. There's the you can see the

[20:02] waterline patch there.

[20:04] And then this is BHI who we hired to do

[20:07] the roads project after Lance did their

[20:09] project doing the reconstruct.

[20:12] There's the

[20:14] paving.

[20:16] It's another project that's been going

[20:18] on on

[20:19] um I don't know the number of it on

[20:22] there. Center Street 12 West and then

[20:24] also 8 North 12 West. They've done a

[20:28] great job with making it look better.

[20:30] There's a picture of what it used to

[20:32] look like. There's a grading of that

[20:34] area. This is right off of 12 West and

[20:37] Center Street.

[20:39] >> What it looks like now.

[20:42] It looks so good now. I I hope it stays

[20:44] like that cuz it's it's hard to keep,

[20:47] you know, the weeds out of that type of

[20:48] rock. But it looks really good. It's

[20:50] your better tin. [laughter]

[20:55] » We're on it.

[20:56] >> You're on it.

[20:57] >> Really good. So, this is just south of

[21:00] there. What it used to look like. That's

[21:02] including

[21:04] it looks like now.

[21:08] This is the fire train facility down

[21:10] there near Johnson property 1600 West

[21:13] was a farm not farfield.

[21:18] Got the building going up, the two fire

[21:20] burn buildings in the background.

[21:23] There's the curb and gutter going in.

[21:26] Kind of what it looks like now. And then

[21:27] there's the the fence and landscaping.

[21:32] It's been a great great project.

[21:37] This is a project done by Eker. You can

[21:40] see on the plan I believe it was snow

[21:42] team that they put in a storm doris.

[21:45] This serves as a storm drain and also as

[21:48] a flush line for the well.

[21:53] And this is just a picture looking north

[21:58] line under the canal pipes.

[22:02] And that's what it looks like now.

[22:07] This is our concrete project was done

[22:10] earlier this year. They uh installed a

[22:13] speed table on 16 South So that's what

[22:15] it looked like before was done during

[22:18] the project. And then that's what it

[22:19] looks like now.

[22:24] ADA ramp.

[22:27] This project's currently going on. It's

[22:30] a micro construction. This is a water

[22:33] line just off of 1700 South and State

[22:35] Street.

[22:38] This is a picture of the installing

[22:41] storm drain line through the um

[22:46] business. I believe it's

[22:48] State

[22:50] >> down there. This is just off of about

[22:54] 18th South and State Street looking

[22:56] east. You can see that flip brick

[22:58] building there. And that's what it looks

[23:00] like now. So, they did a really good job

[23:03] paving that striping's back. You can see

[23:06] under that car the panel there's a

[23:13] pave.

[23:15] This is a project down at Lakeside

[23:18] Sports Park going on right now. And

[23:22] that's what it looks like.

[23:25] See from the curb and gutter alignment

[23:27] it's moved to the east. So now lines up

[23:30] with the intersection to the south.

[23:37] This project, you're familiar with this,

[23:38] is fort southwest pump station Wall

[23:41] House, which has been ongoing for years

[23:43] and it's

[23:45] scheduled to be completed, I believe,

[23:47] next year.

[23:50] That's their part is a bid process.

[23:53] >> Just got them back. Just

[23:55] >> got bids. So, that one's coming up.

[23:57] Future project.

[23:59] This one is just I see the fence going

[24:02] up out here. It's just starting.

[24:05] I just saw the trees coming down.

[24:07] >> That was sad.

[24:09] >> There's a little melancholy watching

[24:10] them go down. I'll be honest with you.

[24:13] >> Oh,

[24:15] but I'll trade that for the fence.

[24:17] [laughter]

[24:18] >> I'll get over it.

[24:21] >> Well, we'll we'll replace them 1.5 to

[24:24] one. So, we'll put back in more that we

[24:26] take down. trees.

[24:29] There's just a site plan of the you know

[24:31] what that will look like.

[24:35] Now we're working with Avenue

[24:37] Consultants on a center street widening

[24:38] project between Geneva and 915 and that

[24:41] we've been working on that for for a

[24:43] while with them. That's MAG project

[24:50] or update.

[24:52] Would you I know you said this already,

[24:54] but would you reorient us on what the

[24:56] different colors mean in the map?

[25:00] Yes.

[25:03] So, if you look at the map, like the

[25:05] yellow color, they're just related to

[25:09] different projects. Yellow's for micro.

[25:11] So, you'd have to find the number that

[25:13] points to. Like, if you look down at um

[25:17] on the right side of the map, number 10

[25:20] points to that yellow, they're on eight

[25:22] South on the very side.

[25:25] >> Yep.

[25:26] >> And then look here on on the list.

[25:27] Number 10 is going to be micro. So,

[25:29] anything yellow in there would be

[25:30] related to that.

[25:32] Okay.

[25:33] >> So, these colors on this map are related

[25:35] to different types of street

[25:37] maintenance. Yeah. Nice.

[25:41] >> Yeah, the green are related to sewer.

[25:43] Then

[25:44] >> purple for storm drain and blue for

[25:46] water.

[25:53] » And I need to

[25:56] thank Tagert for putting this together.

[25:59] As you can see, there's a tremendous

[26:01] amount of work going on in the city. Not

[26:05] just projects that have recently been done, but we're in the process of

[26:09] doing and in the process of designing

[26:12] and bidding. The vast majority of the

[26:15] projects that we do in the city are done

[26:18] inhouse by Tagert. Tagert in effect runs

[26:23] probably one of the best engineering

[26:26] firms in the state.

[26:28] >> We design uh these projects. We work

[26:31] with public works and Reed and his group

[26:34] on their needs. We take the we

[26:36] coordinate with them. We look at the

[26:38] projects. We design them in house. We

[26:41] bid them out. We hire a contractor and

[26:45] we manage the construction project all

[26:48] in house. A lot of communities don't do

[26:51] that. The advantage that that gives us

[26:55] is we're very nimble. And if we get in

[26:58] the middle of a project and a uh

[27:02] different priority rises to the surface,

[27:04] we can quickly pivot. We we don't have

[27:09] uh I don't ever have a conversation with

[27:11] Tagard about, well, Gary, that's a

[27:13] change order that we're going to charge

[27:17] [laughter]

[27:19] because we're doing it inhouse and it

[27:22] gives us a lot of flexibility.

[27:25] It also saves us money in the long run.

[27:28] A lot of communities, alls they're doing

[27:30] are managing contracts. Believe it or

[27:32] not, some construction companies, uh,

[27:35] alls they have is somebody, uh, they'll

[27:37] have a person on staff who does nothing

[27:39] but look for change orders. So, we're

[27:41] able to, since we know the project, our

[27:44] engineers will be working closely with

[27:46] the police department on theirs. So, we

[27:49] do this across the board. It's really I I know I'm going on and on, but too

[27:55] bad. You have to listen to this because

[27:57] >> Oh, this is [laughter]

[27:58] helpful.

[27:59] >> Helpful

[28:00] >> because uh Tagger leads truly one of the

[28:03] best engineering firms in the state and

[28:06] we do this inhouse and it's a great

[28:09] benefit to the city and to the taxpayer

[28:13] for how we do it.

[28:16] up quality work.

[28:17] >> Yes.

[28:18] >> But at a very comparatively inexpensive

[28:22] cost

[28:25] » and municipal prices

[28:28] >> and there's usually not the right hand

[28:29] not knowing what the left hand's doing

[28:31] because

[28:32] >> same hand.

[28:34] [laughter]

[28:36] » I got to give a shout out to our team.

[28:38] If you if you don't know who's in the

[28:40] engineering division, go meet them. Get

[28:42] to know them. We've got a great group of

[28:45] work hard. They do the behind the scenes

[28:47] and they they're awesome to work with.

[28:49] So you don't know them, go meet them and

[28:53] get to know them. Really

[28:54] >> the conversation will last all like

[28:56] three minutes because they're talking

[28:59] [laughter]

[29:01] they got somewhere to

[29:03] [laughter]

[29:05] be point and to tagger in terms of

[29:08] teamwork.

[29:08] >> You got one other picture too I want to

[29:10] show that's questions about

[29:12] >> [laughter]

[29:13] >> Is that right?

[29:16] >> That guy.

[29:16] >> This is where Ryan came from.

[29:18] >> That's lane gray is the focus.

[29:21] >> Not even that was taken yesterday.

[29:23] [laughter]

[29:26] » And this is when Ryan actually worked

[29:29] [laughter]

[29:31] that day

[29:32] >> actually.

[29:41] So, uh,

[29:43] >> on one of those pictures, we talked

[29:45] about 950 north and there were multiple

[29:47] pictures there because there were

[29:50] multiple, uh, kind of teamwork, working

[29:52] together, left hand and right hand

[29:54] needing to know and coordinate because

[29:57] something could start out as a streets

[30:01] project and then also turn into a water

[30:03] project and a storm drain project and a

[30:06] sidewalk and trail and and

[30:08] [clears throat]

[30:09] landscaping project very quickly and

[30:12] easily. So

[30:13] >> this one right here, Brian.

[30:15] >> So if if each of these services and

[30:19] infrastructure subjects were disparit,

[30:22] then yeah, there would be conflicts and

[30:25] we would run into the possibility of,

[30:28] you know, redoing a waterline one one

[30:32] month and then the next month realize we

[30:35] need to go back and do some more and

[30:36] clean up the road all over again. So,

[30:40] >> what you're saying, Bren, is exactly why

[30:42] that took a little longer is we had to

[30:45] coordinate all of those improvements and

[30:47] funding for the large water tank project

[30:51] uh was was needed. So, we had to wait

[30:54] until we had enough funds to do that.

[30:56] So, we're glad we got it.

[30:58] >> So, what you're saying, Reed, is we

[31:00] should go tell that to commissioner

[31:02] elect Dave Spencer. [laughter]

[31:04] Good lesson.

[31:07] Mayor, may I also point out this is the

[31:10] uh plan, part of the plan for the police

[31:14] station,

[31:15] uh the fence around it. If you can just

[31:18] see all of the comments and how

[31:20] complicated, you think, oh, we're just

[31:22] going to put in a fence. It's not that

[31:25] simple. There's so much work goes on

[31:28] behind the scenes. And so that the

[31:31] public knows we treat ourselves just

[31:34] like a developer who would come in and

[31:37] develop in the city. We go through the

[31:40] same process. Uh so in in Taggard shop

[31:45] have an engineering design group who

[31:48] comes in and designs projects and we

[31:51] have a private development group that

[31:54] reviews the work of private developers

[31:57] when they come in. Our plans go through

[32:00] the same process that we go anybody in

[32:03] the community who would develop or build

[32:05] an ORM, we go through the same process

[32:07] ourselves as we ask them to do. And so

[32:12] we have lots of comments and so we work

[32:15] with a client to make sure their needs

[32:17] are met. We work to make sure all uh

[32:22] development issues are resolved and the

[32:25] public's protected.

[32:30] I have a thing I noticed I read an op-ed

[32:32] today. I think it was in this weekend's

[32:34] paper and it was it was pointed towards

[32:37] municipal

[32:38] officials and it was really interesting

[32:40] because it talked about you know we're

[32:42] always there for the ribbon cutings and

[32:44] for the you know celebrations of

[32:46] something new, new water tanks, new

[32:49] whatever. Um, but it's also important to

[32:51] be there for the maintenance to keep

[32:53] those in that infrastructure maintained

[32:56] and taken care of and continuing to

[32:59] serve the purpose that that ribbon was

[33:01] cut for, you know, and I've been to

[33:03] cities, I think we all have, locations,

[33:05] areas that haven't necessarily done

[33:08] that. I think I really appreciate your

[33:10] forethought. you're you're juggling the

[33:12] finances to make that work because that

[33:16] is so important to keep a city at this

[33:19] same level of of goodness. I you know

[33:21] the the city who shall not be named, but

[33:23] I go to a doctor heading up north a

[33:25] little bit and I know right when I'm in

[33:27] that city when I drive on their roads.

[33:29] So totally appreciate all that you guys

[33:31] do and and yeah behind the scenes this

[33:36] is so important to save money for our

[33:38] taxpayers.

[33:40] Thank you.

[33:42] >> Any other questions or comments? Council

[33:45] may

[33:47] >> do you convey our appreciation to your

[33:49] team as well?

[33:54] » Next item on the agenda is a general

[33:59] plan process update by Jared Hall, our

[34:03] planning director. 15 minute

[34:04] presentation, 15 minute Q&A. So, while

[34:08] Jared's coming up, uh we started doing

[34:10] an update of the general plan uh quite a

[34:13] while ago, as you may be aware. And uh

[34:18] as the planning commission uh well over

[34:22] a year ago got into it, um I think they

[34:25] found it's a little more complicated to

[34:27] do uh a general plan update and then uh

[34:32] than they may have thought. And we also

[34:35] had then with on the planning commission

[34:38] uh some illnesses and resignations and

[34:42] things like that that came up. We now

[34:45] have a uh planning commission that's uh

[34:48] up and running with quite a few new

[34:50] members. And so we've been working with

[34:54] them and we wanted to come in and give

[34:56] you an update on the general plan

[35:00] process and where we are and where we

[35:03] will be. And we think we're on a good

[35:05] trajectory.

[35:06] >> Okay, great.

[35:07] >> Well, Jared,

[35:08] >> thanks. Thanks for the thanks for the

[35:09] intro and I will uh I'll jump into it

[35:11] and then leave plenty of time for for

[35:14] questions. Um and you can go talk to the

[35:16] engineers. They're they're chattier than

[35:18] you think. [laughter]

[35:20] With Sammy every day,

[35:22] Ro is a conversationalist.

[35:24] [laughter]

[35:27] » General plan. So I did the first slide

[35:28] is a timeline just an idea of what we think we can do if we if we um

[35:34] if we maintain a couple of areas of

[35:36] focus and and uh and really and really

[35:39] pin ourselves down. Um and we can come

[35:42] back to this later again too after we've

[35:43] talked about what goes into a general

[35:44] plan and kind of where we where we see

[35:46] it as a group uh needing to refocus. Uh

[35:49] during August and September and October,

[35:52] we need to be able to draft what we'd

[35:54] like to do. We have some chapters that

[35:56] are drafted and reviewed um that need

[35:58] some more work and some that just need

[35:59] um filling in. Um we can come back to

[36:02] that as well, but we'd like to keep you

[36:03] updated on it. So, we would plan on

[36:05] updating the PC on where the draft is on

[36:08] the 2nd of No of 2nd of uh September and

[36:11] then you all on the 22nd. U we could do

[36:14] that in work sessions or whatever works

[36:16] out, but we want to be drafting during

[36:18] August, September, and October. The plan

[36:20] then would be to have that full draft

[36:22] ready for review by you as a council and

[36:26] the commission and key um key staff like

[36:29] the directors and legal public works

[36:31] everybody so that we're not fouling

[36:33] anything up um between the 1st of

[36:35] November, the beginning of November and

[36:37] beginning of the holidays. uh that would

[36:40] let us reddraft with edits uh during the

[36:43] holidays and then be back in for

[36:46] adoption at public hearings in January

[36:48] and February. Um we we think we can do

[36:51] that if we pin down and draft during

[36:53] these next few months uh the remainder

[36:55] of what needs to be done and we can come

[36:58] back and talk about a little more. But

[37:00] um just for starters to talk about just

[37:03] as a reminder the general plan these are

[37:05] kind of the three

[37:07] sort of guiding principles for the draft

[37:10] work that we we need to get back to. The

[37:12] general plan needs to be general. It

[37:14] should be a highle planning document.

[37:16] It's not the same thing as zoning. We

[37:18] we've talked about that and I know

[37:19] you're all aware, but uh just as a

[37:21] reminder for for the new commissioners

[37:22] as well, we we need to talk about this.

[37:24] The general plan is a highle general

[37:26] document. Um one of the goals um when we

[37:30] first started doing this

[37:33] at the end of 2024, talking about it and

[37:35] really getting started in 2025 was to

[37:37] align our general plan with the city's

[37:39] area of focus and goals that had been

[37:41] identified at that time. And then we

[37:44] wanted to keep the focus of this general

[37:46] plan on identifying objectives and

[37:47] strategies. And the way that I would um

[37:49] the example I would give is to remember

[37:51] that general plans are not binding. Um

[37:53] they're broad frameworks. And I I think

[37:55] of it as this example is the one that I

[37:56] always use. Connectivity is an idea that

[37:58] belongs in a general plan. The idea that

[38:00] in general connecting streets is usually

[38:03] better uh for pedestrian safety, for for

[38:07] efficient safety, and for vehicle safety

[38:09] as well. But it's the general plan is

[38:11] not where um the tables about the

[38:13] allowed block lengths in different zones

[38:15] belong or how long a terminal street can

[38:17] be. For example, that that kind of

[38:18] detail we won't have the data to support

[38:21] uh those kinds of decisions in a general

[38:23] plan. Anyway, it should just identify

[38:24] that connectivity belongs in certain

[38:27] areas or is more important in area B

[38:29] than area A, for example. That's kind of

[38:32] the the framework of a general plan and

[38:34] the purpose of it. Um the the things

[38:37] that we took out of the goals and

[38:38] policies that the council had identified

[38:40] uh to get into the general plan were

[38:42] these safe and livable neighborhoods.

[38:44] And there are some subcategories there

[38:45] to promote approaches for owner

[38:47] occupancy. Uh balancing housing options

[38:50] uh preserving character of existing

[38:52] neighborhoods and planning for the

[38:53] development of the heart of downtown to

[38:54] enhance our community life. um thriving

[38:57] in balanced business environments,

[38:59] protecting strong economic foundations,

[39:01] creating opportunities for small

[39:02] businesses, exploring opportunities like

[39:04] incubator spaces and business

[39:06] development programs, and fostering

[39:08] connections with Utah Valley University

[39:10] was one of the things that came up

[39:11] early. And then dependable

[39:13] infrastructure, timely updates to the

[39:14] master transportation plan, efforts to

[39:16] improve connection of trails, adopting

[39:18] an active transportation master plan

[39:20] that's in the works now, too. And then

[39:21] continuing efforts for responsible water

[39:23] use redevelopment projects. And that

[39:25] water chapter is that was referencing

[39:27] the water chapter and the water chapter

[39:28] has been adopted as part of the plan.

[39:31] Now

[39:33] um a quick idea just these are some of

[39:35] the plans and efforts that that get

[39:37] referenced or should be referenced by

[39:39] the general plan. For example, when we

[39:42] say that we don't have we don't have the

[39:44] data right now for a big discussion

[39:46] about what block lengths ought to be to

[39:48] promote safety or connectivity or what

[39:50] have you. But different plans uh as they

[39:52] get updated could give us that kind of

[39:54] data. So that's the kind of thing that

[39:55] needs to be referenced. The heart of

[39:56] downtown uh was identified. The active

[39:58] transportation plan, a comprehensive

[40:00] housing study is probably needed at some

[40:03] point. There's not a lot of good

[40:04] planning for the south uh west area of

[40:06] the city where a lot of things are

[40:08] happening. Um quarter plans could be

[40:10] looked at. Stationary plans could be

[40:12] looked at. Neighborhood plans could be

[40:13] updated. Um and again, I just relisted

[40:17] those quarter plans because I'm just

[40:19] that that way. um three of them right

[40:22] there at the end already identified. But

[40:24] these are these are kinds of plans. Some

[40:25] of them exist or are in process right

[40:27] now, but others are ones that the

[40:28] general plan might identify as being

[40:30] needed. Uh it wouldn't provide the data

[40:33] for those. It wouldn't provide the

[40:34] funding for those. It would just call

[40:35] them out. It wouldn't even provide a

[40:36] timeline for them necessarily. It would

[40:38] just call out that they might be things

[40:39] we need to look at. And with that, the

[40:42] reason I bring this this slide up is to

[40:44] show that the the draft work that needs

[40:46] to be done on these is not impossible in

[40:48] the three months that we're planning to knock this out. Um because really

[40:53] they just need to be identified and what

[40:55] they can contribute.

[40:58] Does that make sense? So with that in

[41:00] mind, um the timeline that we're

[41:02] proposing about the general plan, the

[41:04] process in general, we're we're

[41:05] proposing that we will do the writing

[41:07] now uh the draft work. we were trying to

[41:10] do this very iterative process with the

[41:11] commission. They wanted to be very

[41:13] involved in in how it would be written

[41:15] and drafted. That that just did not

[41:17] really work out. So, as we go forward,

[41:20] we'll do that draft work ourselves and

[41:22] present it uh for review instead. Uh

[41:26] again,

[41:26] >> I guess I would then question why are

[41:28] you why do we have the uh what is that

[41:30] we're second with the planning

[41:31] commission? Should you do

[41:33] >> it be an update on where the draft is?

[41:35] So,

[41:36] >> your work meeting with [clears throat]

[41:37] us. I mean do I I thought we would pull

[41:39] the planning commission in after

[41:41] >> good

[41:42] >> had worked through it as a council and

[41:44] then pull them send to them and then

[41:47] come back to us. That's kind of what

[41:49] >> I don't expect to have all of the draft

[41:51] done on no this would just be like an

[41:52] update of where we are. So I just put

[41:54] them in and then my my brain always kind

[41:56] of because I process stuff mainly as a

[41:59] job I go from the planning commission to

[42:00] the city council but we could do them in

[42:02] the reverse order as well. We could show

[42:03] you guys where wherever we are in the

[42:05] draft as an update earlier in September

[42:08] and put on the second September planning

[42:10] commission meeting too. It doesn't it

[42:11] doesn't really doesn't affect the

[42:13] timeline.

[42:13] >> So then would you I guess I'm trying to

[42:15] figure out are we going back to the

[42:16] planning commission again? What are we

[42:17] required to do

[42:18] >> eventually? Yes. The general plan is a

[42:21] document that has to be recommended by

[42:22] the planning commission.

[42:23] >> Yeah. State law says as I remember the

[42:26] state law gives a says a planning

[42:28] commission that's one of their very

[42:29] specific responsibilities is general

[42:32] plan and so that's why I think we have

[42:34] it this ways where where the state law

[42:36] says the planning commission

[42:39] does the general plan and makes a

[42:40] recommendation to the city council

[42:42] >> they'll have to hold

[42:42] >> twice I guess is my question it looks

[42:44] like we're

[42:45] >> um do you mean

[42:46] >> planning commission twice am I reading

[42:47] that wrong

[42:48] >> these are do you mean here at the end

[42:50] >> um

[42:52] yes

[42:53] >> we're reading draft review.

[42:54] >> So,

[42:54] >> oh, draft review. So,

[42:56] >> well, it looks like it might be three

[42:58] times. I didn't see that one, but I see

[43:00] >> this would be this full draft. Sorry, I

[43:01] should be more

[43:03] >> clear. So, this would these would just

[43:05] be updates. I don't want to draft for 3

[43:06] months and then come to to the

[43:09] commission and to the council and say,

[43:10] here's the full draft. I I want to

[43:12] midway through see if we're missing any

[43:14] big marks. So, in no in

[43:18] it's one of the burr months. September.

[43:19] Thank you. Appreciate that. uh in

[43:21] September, I would bring it to both

[43:23] bodies and say, "Here's where we are in

[43:24] the draft right now. Anything going

[43:26] wrong or are we way off base with this?"

[43:28] We would finish then and then the draft

[43:30] review being available from 112, but

[43:33] that's a Monday. That's the first Monday

[43:34] of November. That date having it

[43:36] available would be the draft is

[43:37] available and we wouldn't be bringing it

[43:39] to you. We would be making we'd email it

[43:40] to you, make it available to all to the

[43:43] planning commission, city council, save

[43:45] time at that point. So, at that point,

[43:47] we're just looking for comments from

[43:48] everybody uh to get big things fixed and

[43:51] edited through the holidays.

[43:53] >> Then the ring one is January. The

[43:55] >> public hearings happen in January.

[43:58] >> I'm I'm assuming too per her per her per body just in case.

[44:02] >> Are you kind of still looking for help

[44:04] from the planning commission, city

[44:05] council for your draft

[44:06] >> for input?

[44:08] were we were literally trying with the

[44:10] first um goes at this general plan to

[44:13] have we had a public facing um it was it

[44:17] was not not easy to get to get a public

[44:19] facing uh Google Drive so that the

[44:22] commission could literally commission

[44:24] members could edit comments in or or

[44:26] make comments in the idea was for a

[44:29] council to be able to do it too. It just

[44:31] did not people don't operate that way.

[44:34] Wanted a big shared document that they

[44:36] could all participate in. It just didn't

[44:39] generate what we needed and mostly in in

[44:41] meetings and work sessions we would wind

[44:43] up talking about. We got a lot of good

[44:44] information out the work sessions and

[44:46] things but uh they weren't generating

[44:49] the necessary draft material that can be

[44:51] adopted. Lots of ideas

[44:53] >> ideas. Now, you guys already have a

[44:56] draft,

[44:57] >> right? And and part of this is we want

[44:59] to come back and make sure that the

[45:02] ideas we've heard and we're putting

[45:05] together um we'll come back with the

[45:08] council and say, "Okay, what what did we

[45:10] miss?" Because we will have invariably

[45:12] missed something or

[45:15] there needs to be a different emphasis

[45:17] one way or another on something like

[45:19] that. But we've in this iterative

[45:22] process, it was a great idea in theory

[45:26] and execution. It just didn't really

[45:28] work. It was difficult for the planning

[45:30] commission to do it this way. So, we're

[45:33] really going back to a traditional model

[45:35] where we have conversations, we get

[45:38] feedback, and then we will do the

[45:40] drafting. And by we, I the royal we

[45:43] Jared

[45:45] [laughter]

[45:48] » and Gary and Jared. Uh, can I put you on

[45:50] the spot in a public meeting? You you

[45:52] promise not to get offended at any

[45:54] feedback, input, direction, question

[45:59] from the council and planning

[46:00] commission.

[46:01] >> I've never been offended in my life.

[46:03] [laughter]

[46:05] >> I'm offended you would say that.

[46:15] At the end of the day, in a in a very

[46:18] real sense, this is the council's

[46:20] document.

[46:22] And we're here merely to help you get

[46:26] the document you want. And so,

[46:30] uh, as we go through this, we think

[46:32] we're hearing you on certain items, but

[46:35] you know how it happens. And the

[46:38] difficulty with a a, uh, council is

[46:44] sometimes you don't know for sure until

[46:48] you see a draft in front of you and then

[46:50] have some time to think about it. Um

[46:54] because the the concepts that we're

[46:56] talking about may sound fine, but as we

[46:58] put it into actual language, we want to

[47:01] make sure you feel comfortable with it,

[47:03] you're good with the direction, and

[47:05] we're fairly and accurately capturing

[47:09] the intent of the council. And then

[47:11] ultimately, as a council, you will have

[47:13] to decide and and vote on it to adopt it

[47:18] as your document. So, we're not going to

[47:20] be offended. uh we get offended in so

[47:23] easily in so many other ways but this is not one of them.

[47:28] Yes, [clears throat] council. I just

[47:29] want to just reiterate what not not

[47:32] about being offended, Miss. But in my in

[47:35] a prior chapter, I I worked as a planner

[47:38] for a community and drafted a a general

[47:41] plan and what the council wanted. And

[47:44] then when I would go and I say, "This is

[47:46] what you wanted, but you need to

[47:49] understand if this is what you want,

[47:51] then these are the different types of

[47:53] ordinances you're looking at to enact

[47:55] what you want."

[47:57] and they were like, "Oh, I don't know if

[48:01] we want to do that." So, it's it really

[48:04] is important to think not just the

[48:06] broad, but how are we going to as a

[48:08] council actually implement what what we

[48:12] want because it may be there may be some

[48:15] things that are going to make we're

[48:17] going to be pushing the envelope on some

[48:19] things maybe or not. But just just know

[48:22] that it's it's the whole package. and

[48:24] mayor along with that. So you you

[48:27] understand sure Jared and I have you

[48:30] know personal opinions maybe about

[48:32] something or how something works but at

[48:35] the end of the day what we really care

[48:37] about as staff ultimately to the council

[48:40] to help you get the document you need is

[48:43] not that we may have a suggestion of

[48:46] language or an idea of something and

[48:48] that you adopt it. that whether you do

[48:52] or not is okay with us. What we worry

[48:56] about is you adopt something and then to

[48:59] your point a year later you come to me

[49:01] and say Gary when we were talking about

[49:04] this and we adopted it or it looked like

[49:07] we might adopt it. Why didn't you tell

[49:09] me that this could be a consequence or

[49:13] these are the foreseeable

[49:16] results of that policy? That's what

[49:19] keeps us up at night. Our We want to

[49:22] make sure you have as complete

[49:26] information as you possibly can to

[49:28] understand it uh before you make a

[49:31] decision.

[49:33] >> So, this is pretty high level though,

[49:34] right?

[49:35] >> Yes.

[49:35] >> Because I mean, I'm going to use an

[49:37] example that we're all familiar with,

[49:38] right? We had our general plan and then

[49:41] we had our state street master plan,

[49:43] right? The State Street master plan had

[49:45] the general plan had some great ideas

[49:48] floating up here, right? The State

[49:50] [clears throat] Street master plan came

[49:52] down with some specificity that our

[49:54] residents were not pleased with when we

[49:55] discovered what was there. Our

[49:57] businesses were not thriving because

[49:59] they weren't allowed to remodel to the

[50:00] extent they wanted to. There were some

[50:02] unintended consequences that were

[50:04] discovered from that. So what you're

[50:07] saying is hopefully you guys will

[50:11] identify to us if we give you a

[50:13] direction you'll be able to say to us

[50:15] this is a a perceived unintended

[50:17] consequence you might want to think

[50:18] about.

[50:18] >> Yeah.

[50:19] >> Is that kind of is that a good summary

[50:20] of what you're trying to say here?

[50:22] >> Yeah. And if and if that comes up to you

[50:24] as you're reading the draft stuff. Yeah.

[50:26] We won't be if you bring that up it's

[50:27] not going to it's not going to bother us

[50:29] because we might not have thought if if

[50:31] you see it and are concerned about it.

[50:33] Definitely bring it up. The only thing

[50:34] I'm afraid of is an echo chamber. I

[50:36] don't want to write in an echo chamber.

[50:38] I'm somewhat in love with my own

[50:39] thoughts about things. I need other

[50:41] people maybe back down.

[50:44] >> It's better that way.

[50:46] >> It's kind of a planner thing.

[50:47] >> Yeah, it's probably

[50:49] that's a personality flaw we all share.

[50:53] >> All you can do is be aware of it.

[50:55] >> We sing in the shower, right? [laughter]

[50:57] We talk a lot about, you know, the ORM

[51:00] being like this big ship and you as a

[51:03] council decide which direction we want

[51:05] this big ship to go. You don't really

[51:08] need to to worry about all of the little

[51:11] gears and mechanisms in the ship that it

[51:13] takes to turn to get it in alignment

[51:16] with your direction.

[51:18] you just need to tell us at the same to

[51:20] go that way and we'll start moving that

[51:23] way and getting everything in alignment

[51:25] to go. In the meantime, they'll also

[51:27] tell you it's like, okay, if we do go

[51:29] this way, there's a big rock out there

[51:31] that may we might run into or hey, we

[51:35] don't have something down in the boiler

[51:37] in the room needs to be fixed and really

[51:39] help us do what it is that you want to

[51:41] do. And we don't need you to to

[51:44] necessarily care about those details

[51:47] because we'll do it. You just need to

[51:49] have trust in us that we'll tell you

[51:52] these things. And we don't want to get

[51:54] going down. It's like, why didn't you

[51:55] tell me that this would cause this big,

[51:58] well, you never asked. You know, we

[52:00] never want to do that. And so, we're not

[52:03] going to get offended. We just want to

[52:04] make sure the council because ultimately

[52:07] this is your document. It's not staff's.

[52:10] It's not the planning commission. It's

[52:12] your document.

[52:17] » Any other questions or thoughts? Council

[52:19] >> mayor, can I make a make a comment?

[52:22] >> Oh, we've got Yes, the voice. Yes.

[52:24] >> Thanks, Jared. This is Quinn. U just

[52:27] really grateful that you're taking the

[52:29] time and I know this takes a lot of

[52:32] thought and staff time to to make

[52:34] progress on this and it's overdue. So,

[52:36] I'm just really grateful for that. uh

[52:39] question and comments. So a question is

[52:41] h how long do you anticipate this draft

[52:43] being? I know we're trying to keep it

[52:45] pretty general, but uh what's what's

[52:47] your target length? And then secondly, I

[52:49] just encourage you to um make sure that

[52:52] the that the planning commission is

[52:54] involved every step of the way. Um I I

[52:57] know that they may not be appropriate

[52:59] drafters, but I I do think that, you

[53:02] know, we've we have um appointed them

[53:06] because we we value the way that they

[53:09] think about some of these broader

[53:11] principles and and I know they don't

[53:13] always agree with each other, but that

[53:15] kind of conversation, I think, will just

[53:16] be really rich and will be helpful for

[53:18] me as I review it as a city council

[53:20] member. So that's my encouragement.

[53:22] Thank you.

[53:24] >> Okay. Um I don't have a a page number

[53:26] target really um in mind.

[53:30] >> Under a thousand pages.

[53:31] Um

[53:35] >> bring it down.

[53:36] >> Sorry. Yeah. less than a lot of um so a

[53:40] lot of the I think I would best answer

[53:42] that by saying that a lot of the stuff a

[53:44] lot of the page count that comes from a

[53:47] great many general plans comes from data

[53:50] tables and things that we are not going

[53:51] to have new versions of for this because

[53:54] we're not hiring outside consultant work

[53:55] on it because it's an update. uh and

[53:57] we're and we're going in a direction to

[53:59] say we're we're looking at for example

[54:02] we're not going to have a housing

[54:03] element that has a whole bunch of data

[54:05] in it because we would rather in the

[54:07] future have a housing plan done a

[54:09] housing study done and that will be that

[54:10] will contain the data. So the page count

[54:12] will be lower than a lot of general

[54:14] plans currently. We're not going to be

[54:16] in the hundreds of pages.

[54:18] >> And structurally, we've talked about

[54:21] taking some of that data in the tables

[54:23] that kind of get in the way of a good uh

[54:27] logical linear read of the general plan

[54:30] and taking those out of the general plan

[54:32] text and putting it into an appendix of

[54:35] the general plan. So, if you want to

[54:38] dive into some of that data, you can,

[54:41] but it won't interfere with a good uh

[54:44] more in-depth executive summary of of

[54:48] things. So, there's not a specific

[54:51] number, but you know, very very readable

[54:55] that you could read quickly without

[54:57] getting bogged down in tables. It's

[54:59] there. You don't have to slog through it

[55:02] to get the highlevel concepts that we're

[55:05] talking. So, are you going to be adding

[55:07] any additional elements to it other than

[55:09] since it's an update?

[55:10] >> Um, that's a great great question. Um,

[55:12] as the planning commission as we started

[55:15] this process, they did identify a couple

[55:18] of things they wanted to add or change.

[55:20] Um, there's there are two chapters

[55:22] currently for public facilities and u

[55:25] parks and recreation. They wanted to

[55:27] combine those. So, they'll losing one in

[55:29] that way. uh they did want to do and I'm

[55:32] still looking at um a short

[55:35] implementation chapter at the end. Those

[55:36] would be the two main additions. There

[55:39] would be a short sort of implementation

[55:41] strategy chapter that says here's here's

[55:43] all your your information, all your

[55:45] objectives, all your goals. Maybe they

[55:47] get put in three tiers of levels of

[55:49] importance and you'd have to organize

[55:51] those and the the first, you know, the

[55:53] first most important ones are these, the

[55:55] next and these. Just real simple. But

[55:56] those would be the only two. And as

[55:58] staff, we like that implementation idea

[56:01] because we have these big broad

[56:03] principles that look out over

[56:06] uh the city and its development. There

[56:09] are so many things to look at. We would

[56:12] like to at some point have some sort of

[56:15] prioritization of what should we work on

[56:19] next. The general plan

[56:21] >> isn't the end. It's actually the

[56:24] beginning of things that we're doing.

[56:26] So, you know, an example of that is like

[56:29] uh we have the general plan. The general

[56:32] plan has some high level uh uh talking

[56:35] points about, you know, parks and

[56:37] creating community and things like that.

[56:39] Well, the council took that and went

[56:41] down a next step and did the heart of

[56:44] ORM. And so, we've got that planned now.

[56:47] And so now we're taking the heart of ORM

[56:50] and we're looking at okay, what are some

[56:52] actionable things we can do on that to

[56:55] partner with UVU

[56:57] and uh get things done in the community.

[57:00] That's what I'd see the general plan

[57:02] doing is now like a housing stud. I'll

[57:05] let you in on my bias. I'd like to see

[57:08] uh one of those uh next steps to to be

[57:12] is to be able to get our arms around

[57:15] housing is to actually have a good

[57:16] housing study done. And so that could be

[57:19] in the implementation section. Okay. and

[57:22] then wherever it would rank for the

[57:24] council. Uh it might be really high, it

[57:26] might be mid or or low for the council,

[57:29] but then it helps us organize our work

[57:32] on making sure we're getting the council

[57:35] priorities taken care of. Uh because

[57:38] we're trying as you have a retreat, we

[57:40] try to go to a retreat, take notes about

[57:43] your priorities, what you're trying to

[57:45] accomplish. try to now get that in align

[57:48] everything that we do our general plans

[57:50] and other plans in alignment with those

[57:52] things. So I think the implementation

[57:56] would be a great idea.

[57:58] >> Yeah. And as I as I recall, correct me

[58:00] if I'm wrong that the state law says

[58:03] that really that the only element that's

[58:05] required is the moderate income housing

[58:07] plan. Is that is that part of the

[58:09] general plan?

[58:09] >> There are four other Okay. So there are

[58:12] four. Okay.

[58:12] >> You have to have a land you sell. Okay.

[58:14] And that one we've we've got the most

[58:17] progress on. You have to have a land use

[58:18] element. You have to have a a moder

[58:20] income housing. A housing element.

[58:21] Modern income housing. You have to have

[58:24] uh transportation. No, I'm sorry. It's

[58:26] not true. You have to have a um water

[58:30] conservation element now.

[58:32] >> Oh, okay. Which and that's why we did

[58:34] it. There was a deadline to get the

[58:36] water conservation element done.

[58:38] >> Already done some of these.

[58:39] >> Yeah.

[58:40] >> Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[58:40] >> There's there's one other one that I'm

[58:41] missing. It's not transportation, but

[58:42] there's one. I I'm sorry to quiz you. I

[58:44] just

[58:44] >> Okay, I had a slide, but

[58:46] >> no, that that's the thing is they could

[58:48] a general plan could, as I understand,

[58:50] could have anything in it.

[58:51] >> It can there's a bunch of options after

[58:53] that.

[58:53] >> A lot of different options that a lot of

[58:55] times it's focused on land use only,

[58:58] development only. Not not to make the plan bigger necessarily, but

[59:03] >> but a lot of times it can go some cities

[59:07] will just due to the staff size or the

[59:09] size of the city, they'll just do the

[59:10] required elements and

[59:12] >> forth and others can make them into

[59:14] whatever.

[59:15] >> Yeah.

[59:15] >> And and we'll have several we we want

[59:17] there to be a transportation and an

[59:18] economics

[59:19] >> not an active transportation plan which

[59:21] is part of the transport. Would that be

[59:23] a separate element? It's it's part of

[59:25] >> you high level sort of transportation

[59:27] element and then that would refer to the

[59:29] master transportation plan and the

[59:31] active transportation plans and those

[59:32] would be appendices.

[59:33] >> So that would be under the

[59:33] implementation.

[59:35] >> Yeah. And so kind of think of it like a

[59:39] in we will talk about parks and

[59:41] recreation in the general plan. But

[59:44] talking about parks and recreation in

[59:46] the general plan does not uh supplant

[59:50] what Bryce is doing in diving into the more details of it. So we may have

[59:56] highlevel principles in the general plan

[59:59] for parks and recreation things that we

[1:00:02] want to accomplish. Once that's in

[1:00:04] there, uh I think the Bryce was the last

[1:00:07] one done 2021.

[1:00:09] >> 21.

[1:00:09] >> Yeah. In 21. So we're not too far from

[1:00:12] doing an update of that plan. So in the

[1:00:15] general plan, it may just be a handful

[1:00:18] of pages talking about parks and

[1:00:20] recreation so that the next time they

[1:00:23] update their parks plan, uh if we have a

[1:00:26] consultant or we do it in house, one of

[1:00:28] the first things we do is okay, what are

[1:00:31] the the council's overarching goals for

[1:00:35] parks and recreation and then take those

[1:00:37] principles and make sure they end up in

[1:00:39] that document. Similar like the slide

[1:00:41] Jared had on we like connectivity of

[1:00:45] roads, pedestrian ways in the city.

[1:00:49] That's a good general statement to have.

[1:00:52] But when you now take a look at okay,

[1:00:55] how do we really do this? A lot of some

[1:00:58] of that might be in the transportation

[1:01:00] master plan and in the active

[1:01:03] transportation part of the

[1:01:05] transportation master plan, but you know

[1:01:09] it doesn't mean every street every time

[1:01:12] everywhere has a bike lane and uh a

[1:01:16] pedestrian lane and three lanes of

[1:01:19] traffic. It doesn't mean that. It just

[1:01:21] means we like these things. Now come

[1:01:24] back as you do your more in-depth

[1:01:27] studying. How are you implementing these

[1:01:29] goals in a more specific context?

[1:01:32] >> That's right. Thank you. Any other

[1:01:34] questions?

[1:01:35] >> Can I ask one? Actually, just because

[1:01:37] I'm not sure I answered Quinn's the

[1:01:39] second part of Quinn's question about

[1:01:41] involving the planning commission more

[1:01:42] as we go along. And to that point, you

[1:01:44] all as well. What what I'm suggesting

[1:01:46] here is is work session updates. That

[1:01:49] number could be increased. We could do

[1:01:51] two of them. We could do one in

[1:01:52] September and one in October. Um, we

[1:01:54] could do two in October and one in

[1:01:55] September. Whatever you all want. It's

[1:01:56] what it's how much you're comfortable

[1:01:59] taking up time with me here. So, and I

[1:02:02] know how like my children and my wife

[1:02:03] feel about that. And it's probably

[1:02:06] >> I think you guys kind of answered that

[1:02:08] question. I mean, you this is my

[1:02:12] perception. Planning Commission has been

[1:02:14] working on it for over a year and we

[1:02:16] haven't made a whole lot of progress. So

[1:02:18] that's why you're making the

[1:02:19] recommendation of writing the draft kind

[1:02:23] of pulling it to staff for a more um

[1:02:28] process. I mean just to kind of pull it

[1:02:30] together a little more a little

[1:02:32] >> maybe a more focused

[1:02:33] >> focus. Yeah. Um so that will change

[1:02:38] compared to what was done last year and

[1:02:40] this I don't know how much you've done

[1:02:41] this year but last year especially. Um,

[1:02:45] but the points you're making here is in

[1:02:47] order to meet your timeline.

[1:02:50] Um,

[1:02:52] I guess I don't know. Are you saying in

[1:02:54] order to meet your timeline, these are

[1:02:55] the ones you've set up? This is what's

[1:02:56] going to help you the most to to get the

[1:02:58] reviews of your draft.

[1:02:59] >> I'm not sure that work sessions that that like updating people in a

[1:03:03] quick work session would slow us down.

[1:03:05] Want if we want to have more involvement

[1:03:07] all along that. So, it wouldn't

[1:03:09] necessarily slow it down. Won't affect

[1:03:11] it. just gathers more ideas.

[1:03:13] >> It was just the whole I mean I saw some

[1:03:15] of those meetings and they came up with

[1:03:16] some great ideas last year, right? Some

[1:03:18] of those but like you said it was I saw

[1:03:21] you guys kind of struggle to pull it

[1:03:23] down.

[1:03:23] >> Yeah.

[1:03:24] >> And to pull it into an active document.

[1:03:26] >> So it sounds to me like that's what

[1:03:29] you're saying is you'll give them the

[1:03:30] updates but the

[1:03:32] >> the writing part of it needs to

[1:03:34] >> move forward

[1:03:35] >> focused. Yeah. on Jared using this uh

[1:03:40] timeline you've got on here. There's a

[1:03:42] obviously there's a difference between

[1:03:44] an update versus actual review and

[1:03:48] >> sort of workshopping it and having kind

[1:03:49] of a back and forth,

[1:03:51] >> right? Yeah. That's that's kind of

[1:03:53] >> so I support you guys in what you've

[1:03:54] presented here. I think that's the best

[1:03:57] way to get it accomplished.

[1:04:00] And we view this kind of like uh

[1:04:03] our version of the Declaration of

[1:04:05] Independence and and Jared is our Thomas

[1:04:07] Jefferson. We have a committee. We're

[1:04:09] talking about highlevel principles. He's

[1:04:12] going to go out and do a draft. It will

[1:04:13] then come back for tweaking.

[1:04:16] >> Make you Aaron Burr.

[1:04:17] >> Yes.

[1:04:19] [laughter]

[1:04:23] » Pull out the guns, the musketss.

[1:04:25] >> Thank you. I'm so I I nerd out on this

[1:04:28] because this is one of the things I love

[1:04:30] about planning is planning.

[1:04:33] >> Mayor, do you mind do you mind if we ask

[1:04:35] council member Quinn Mikum to we answer

[1:04:37] >> Quinn? Yes.

[1:04:38] >> Question or response to comment

[1:04:40] sufficiently?

[1:04:42] >> Well, what I heard is that you have no

[1:04:43] idea how long it's going to be.

[1:04:46] Um and that you're going to take a you

[1:04:49] know a first cut, but that you will

[1:04:50] involve planning commission extensively

[1:04:52] along the way. If I interpreted that

[1:04:54] right.

[1:04:56] >> Did I get that right?

[1:04:57] >> That's right.

[1:04:58] >> Yes.

[1:04:58] >> Updates. The planning commission will

[1:04:59] get updates on their drafts.

[1:05:04] » Uh I you know updates are great. I do

[1:05:07] think that um you know bringing the pine

[1:05:10] commission as well as us of course into

[1:05:13] process to get feedback um rather than

[1:05:15] just be updated I think is an important

[1:05:17] part of the process.

[1:05:19] >> Agreed.

[1:05:20] I just want to make sure it's not

[1:05:21] bogging it down. I just saw

[1:05:23] [clears throat] it happen last year. So,

[1:05:25] I think we're I think they're telling us

[1:05:27] they're at a point now they need to move

[1:05:28] forward.

[1:05:31] >> And this is good because uh I think to

[1:05:34] hopefully address concerns that I'm

[1:05:37] hearing with this is we do have some

[1:05:40] elements that are really uh we think

[1:05:44] pretty close like the land use element.

[1:05:46] That's one of the state law required

[1:05:48] ones and it's typically our largest one.

[1:05:52] Um, that's very close. We could start uh

[1:05:56] as we get chapters done, we could start

[1:06:00] sending those out to planning commission

[1:06:01] and council for feedback on it while

[1:06:04] we're working on other things and

[1:06:07] incorporated into the process

[1:06:11] that we're doing here.

[1:06:12] >> That would be possible. So when we're

[1:06:14] updating them, it could be an update on,

[1:06:17] okay, yeah, we've drafted these two

[1:06:20] chapters. Here you go. Take a look at

[1:06:22] it. You can start that and we're then

[1:06:24] updating on we're working on these

[1:06:27] chapters and we'll get back with you. If

[1:06:30] any issues come up, we can let them

[1:06:31] know. We can let you know. So, uh, we

[1:06:34] can, you know, really handle that any

[1:06:37] way you want. And it's probably

[1:06:41] uh the idea to go through this is we're

[1:06:44] kind of doing some of this concurrently

[1:06:48] uh updating planning commission, giving

[1:06:50] them things, but we also want to make

[1:06:52] sure you're updated and you you know

[1:06:55] rather than we get through, we're done

[1:06:57] with the process and then here's this

[1:06:59] big document

[1:07:01] uh that's you know much more manageable.

[1:07:05] I I keep telling Jared, I want it to be

[1:07:07] half of whatever we have now. And so

[1:07:10] what how long is it now?

[1:07:11] >> I give you page count on that. If it's

[1:07:13] half of what we got now, it's about 80

[1:07:14] pages.

[1:07:16] >> Because when Well, before you all were

[1:07:18] here, this worm's general plan was 15

[1:07:21] pages long. That was that was the

[1:07:24] >> That's how I've always seen them, too.

[1:07:26] Is very broad, very

[1:07:29] >> Yeah. It was It was way It was back in

[1:07:31] the Bob Moore days.

[1:07:32] >> Yeah. And we're we're trying to get more

[1:07:34] to that

[1:07:35] >> model that somebody who's lives in the

[1:07:38] city or somebody who maybe wants to come

[1:07:40] in and do a business or develop can look

[1:07:44] at it and find a fairly small document

[1:07:47] that can give them a good sense of okay,

[1:07:50] where does the the city council really

[1:07:52] want to take the city? [snorts]

[1:07:55] And so, uh, I'm looking for cutting in

[1:07:59] half at least what we have. Uh but we

[1:08:02] can do this concurrently. I don't want

[1:08:06] at the end without any updates to the

[1:08:08] council. Oh, by the way, here's a

[1:08:12] >> you know, appreciate that

[1:08:13] >> a big document. I'd like to do work with

[1:08:16] planning commission and the council at

[1:08:18] the same time.

[1:08:20] too. And

[1:08:20] >> Gary, some of this uh some of this

[1:08:23] update or review or or showing drafts,

[1:08:26] some of it could uh be addressed if

[1:08:28] there is um something that we need to

[1:08:31] get clarity on. Like a joint meeting or

[1:08:34] something as well.

[1:08:36] >> Sure.

[1:08:36] >> Yes. I'd like to have a joint meeting.

[1:08:39] >> I didn't include a joint meeting in the

[1:08:41] timeline, but we could. I mean, it's all

[1:08:43] this is not set in stone. I will not

[1:08:46] won't hold anybody to this. This is not

[1:08:48] a binding timeline. plan

[1:08:50] >> though he does get offended over his

[1:08:52] timeline.

[1:08:53] >> Yeah,

[1:08:57] » I don't complain to anybody about it

[1:08:58] except Sammy on the bus. Sammy on the

[1:09:00] bus.

[1:09:02] >> This looks great.

[1:09:04] >> Thank you. And it looks like the next

[1:09:06] item on the agenda is yours as well.

[1:09:08] >> I'll just stay right here.

[1:09:09] >> Next hour. Well, 45 minutes

[1:09:11] presentation, 15 minute Q&A. Do you want

[1:09:13] me to walk back to my chair and walk

[1:09:15] back up or am I okay to just go walk

[1:09:17] back and replug

[1:09:20] >> walking back and coming up? If you

[1:09:23] remember last time we talked about uh

[1:09:26] detached accessory dwelling units that

[1:09:29] the state law changed and requires the

[1:09:32] city to go in and create an uh an

[1:09:36] ordinance by October

[1:09:39] uh that deals with uh detached accessory

[1:09:43] dwelling units. And so we actually took

[1:09:45] it to planning commission. They've made

[1:09:49] a recommendation and you saw we sent out

[1:09:51] a draft of an ordinance. They sent the

[1:09:54] ordinance out. We have uh August today

[1:09:58] and then we have August and we have

[1:10:01] we're not looking for the council really

[1:10:03] to make a decision because there's some

[1:10:06] important issues in here to think about

[1:10:08] and look at until the last meeting of

[1:10:11] September. If we meet that deadline,

[1:10:14] we're in compliance with state law and

[1:10:16] we're not concerned. So really what uh

[1:10:20] we're here today to do is have Jared you

[1:10:24] we sent you out some materials last

[1:10:26] time. You may have had chance to look at

[1:10:28] it, you may not. Jared's going to walk

[1:10:31] us through now the ADU ordinance. Uh not

[1:10:36] looking at a redline strikeout of

[1:10:38] anything, but just the concepts that it

[1:10:40] has in it of of what it's supposed to

[1:10:44] do. and there's some issues that we can

[1:10:47] talk about and get feedback on. And then

[1:10:49] I anticipate at least one more work

[1:10:53] session where we would come in and talk

[1:10:55] about this before we would be asking the

[1:10:57] council to make any sort of uh uh

[1:11:01] decision.

[1:11:02] >> This presentation will include planning

[1:11:03] commission recommendations.

[1:11:05] >> Yes,

[1:11:07] >> this is yeah this will be this will be a

[1:11:08] review of what the planning commission

[1:11:09] recommend.

[1:11:10] >> Thank you.

[1:11:10] >> And then a little background information

[1:11:12] as well. So, as Gary mentioned, this is

[1:11:15] supposed to be adopted by October 1st.

[1:11:17] And this is specifically for detached

[1:11:19] accessory dwelling units. Right now, um,

[1:11:22] cities are required to allow accessory

[1:11:24] dwelling units. We call them accessory

[1:11:26] apartments, which complicated our lives

[1:11:28] a little bit because everyone calls them

[1:11:30] accessory dwelling units now, including

[1:11:31] state codes. So, we thought uh we're leaving most of that alone. I

[1:11:35] think just for the goals of this change,

[1:11:37] we want to meet the requirements of

[1:11:39] state code which is to adopt that detach

[1:11:41] accessory dwelling unit ordinance and

[1:11:43] keep the substance of what ORM has been

[1:11:45] doing for a long time with accessory

[1:11:47] dwelling units which are called

[1:11:49] accessory apartments. Keep that intact.

[1:11:50] We haven't proposed a lot of changes

[1:11:51] there. In fact, nothing except

[1:11:54] reordering of a couple of statements and

[1:11:56] then calling them accessory dwelling

[1:11:57] units instead of accessory apartments uh

[1:12:00] for continuity and then combining the

[1:12:02] regulations in one section so that it's

[1:12:04] easy to find as opposed to having

[1:12:06] accessory dwelling units or accessory

[1:12:07] apartments in one place and detached

[1:12:09] units somewhere else.

[1:12:11] >> And and we are suggesting let's change

[1:12:13] the name from accessory apartments,

[1:12:15] accessory dwelling units. It'll make our

[1:12:19] lives a little easier.

[1:12:20] >> That's what everyone calls it now. We

[1:12:22] Morham's been calling them accessory

[1:12:23] apartments for a long time. So, probably

[1:12:24] be an adjustment for folks, but you

[1:12:27] know, it's uh it's kind of where we

[1:12:29] wanted to go. Um

[1:12:32] the the state code requires a couple of

[1:12:34] things. It's important to understand

[1:12:35] that because that's where we, as I said,

[1:12:37] we try to meet those minimum

[1:12:39] requirements of state code. Um we have

[1:12:41] to allow detached accessory dwelling

[1:12:44] units, which incidentally is something

[1:12:45] like this just for purp.

[1:12:49] It's a accessory dwelling unit that's

[1:12:50] allowed on the same lot as this home,

[1:12:52] but it's not part of the home. The the

[1:12:54] ones that we allow currently would be

[1:12:56] contained within the walls of the home.

[1:12:57] The accessory dwelling unit, the

[1:12:58] accessory requirement. This is an

[1:13:00] allowance that we're required to do for

[1:13:01] something separated from the homes

[1:13:03] itself.

[1:13:04] Um, so they have to be allowed on any

[1:13:07] single family residential property

[1:13:08] that's at least 11,000 ft² or greater.

[1:13:11] That's the minimum. That's the bottom

[1:13:12] that we're allowed to go by the state

[1:13:14] code. Um they we are we're supposed to

[1:13:17] make sure they comply with building

[1:13:18] codes, health codes, fire codes. Um and

[1:13:21] we have to allow for legally constructed

[1:13:23] accessory structure like a detached

[1:13:24] garage to be converted into a a DADU um

[1:13:28] if it can meet our setbacks and things

[1:13:30] that we impose. Those are really the

[1:13:33] only shall statements that are in the

[1:13:34] state code for this. Uh there are a

[1:13:38] bunch of shall nots. We're not allowed

[1:13:40] to require them to have a conditional

[1:13:41] use permit. Um, then it has this one

[1:13:44] vague statement. We're not allowed to

[1:13:45] require setbacks from property lines or

[1:13:47] from a detached dwelling that make it

[1:13:50] unreasonably difficult to locate a DADU

[1:13:52] on a property. Um, we're not allowed to

[1:13:55] require more than two on-site parking

[1:13:57] spaces for any DADU that's bigger than

[1:14:00] 650 ft. And we're not allowed to require

[1:14:02] any more than one for a DAU that's less

[1:14:04] than 650 ft.

[1:14:07] Uh we're also not allowed to require

[1:14:09] design standards that would be in

[1:14:10] conflict with 102618 and that's the

[1:14:12] pretty code uh statements. We're not

[1:14:14] allowed to require certain materials or

[1:14:17] uh certain roof pitches or things like

[1:14:20] that.

[1:14:22] Um so those those are kind of the the

[1:14:24] main knots and all of these codes that

[1:14:26] we're proposing or all these changes

[1:14:28] we're proposing are trying to meet those

[1:14:30] requirements.

[1:14:32] Um the first part I think we think about

[1:14:34] this uh what's been drafted in three

[1:14:36] parts. The first part of it is um a

[1:14:39] purpose statement a quick purpose

[1:14:40] statement and some definitions. The

[1:14:43] purpose statement is where we have said

[1:14:44] a couple of main things that people we

[1:14:46] want people to understand about

[1:14:48] accessory dwelling units in general and

[1:14:50] DND use. You only get them on

[1:14:53] residential properties and they're

[1:14:54] subject to the restrictions of this

[1:14:55] section. You have to say that to people

[1:14:58] but you have to tell people these are

[1:14:59] the codes for these things.

[1:15:01] and then only one ADU of whichever kind

[1:15:03] is permitted in addition to one primary

[1:15:06] dwelling. So what we're saying is

[1:15:07] explicitly

[1:15:10] you can have a house here and you can

[1:15:12] have a detached ADU be the requirements

[1:15:16] or you can have one inside your house an

[1:15:18] ADU inside your house but you cannot

[1:15:19] have an ADU inside your house and a

[1:15:22] detached ADU. You get one or the other

[1:15:24] not both. Does that make sense? So we

[1:15:26] put that right at the beginning in the

[1:15:28] purpose statement kind of the opening

[1:15:30] statement. Can I ask you?

[1:15:31] >> Yeah.

[1:15:32] >> Is go back.

[1:15:34] >> I got an email from somebody who or a

[1:15:36] text from somebody whose neighbor um had

[1:15:40] keep has their an RV in the backyard as

[1:15:42] a dwelling unit in it.

[1:15:43] >> Yeah. No, that's that wouldn't

[1:15:45] >> that need to be spelled out specifically

[1:15:46] or is that referenced somewhere else?

[1:15:48] >> It's it's it's spelled out specifically

[1:15:50] by the building codes. Um this part

[1:15:52] where they have to comply with building

[1:15:53] health and fire codes. You can't legally

[1:15:55] live in an RV in your backyard because

[1:15:57] it's not hooked up to utilities. It's

[1:15:58] not on a permanent foundation. So, it

[1:16:00] doesn't mean it for that reason. You

[1:16:02] don't actually have to say, "Thou shalt

[1:16:03] not live in an RV in your backyard."

[1:16:05] >> Okay.

[1:16:05] >> The health and fire and building codes

[1:16:06] already tell you you can.

[1:16:08] >> So, but good question. And people do

[1:16:10] that. They want to people want to move

[1:16:11] tiny homes in and that's probably fine

[1:16:13] under these kind of

[1:16:14] >> short-term rentals.

[1:16:15] >> Yeah. And you you you could you could do

[1:16:18] short-term rentals. Let me just as long

[1:16:20] as you you brought it up. Well, I said

[1:16:25] [laughter]

[1:16:26] this

[1:16:27] >> this proposal, just so you know, and the

[1:16:30] commission and and staff are very much

[1:16:31] aware that STRs are a thing. Um, this

[1:16:36] proposal dealing with the detached

[1:16:38] accessory dwelling units does not deal

[1:16:39] with whether you can use one as a

[1:16:41] short-term rental or not. The the

[1:16:42] default is the default and we haven't

[1:16:44] tried this.

[1:16:45] >> Okay. So, so we're going to take all

[1:16:46] that NTR. I'm going to set it over here

[1:16:49] for tonight.

[1:16:50] >> Yeah. It doesn't have

[1:16:51] >> I'm going to just talk about detached

[1:16:53] ads.

[1:16:54] >> If it happens that you wind up being

[1:16:55] able to do them on properties, then they

[1:16:58] would be eligible in DAU perhaps or you

[1:17:00] could restrict them from DU. It just

[1:17:01] depends. We're not treating that in this

[1:17:03] proposal.

[1:17:04] >> Okay.

[1:17:04] >> Not part of this draft. Does that make

[1:17:06] sense? Felt like it was the wrong time

[1:17:08] to make a decision on that.

[1:17:11] >> We wanted to get it done in time for the

[1:17:12] deadline. So, we figured

[1:17:15] um we did have to make a few definition

[1:17:18] changes and and following closely on the

[1:17:20] heels of this ordinance is a is a kind

[1:17:23] of an omnibus definitions change. I was

[1:17:26] trying to encapsulate it in the code. Um

[1:17:30] but we're um we're going to do another

[1:17:33] text amendment on the heels of this that

[1:17:35] will change all of the the definitions

[1:17:38] to match all over in the code. So

[1:17:40] wherever it says accessory apartments in

[1:17:41] the code in other places for code

[1:17:44] enforcement and things it'll now say

[1:17:45] accessory dwelling said changes like

[1:17:47] that they won't have any substance but

[1:17:49] they'll make the definition match. These

[1:17:50] are the ones we felt like we needed to

[1:17:52] define so that people would understand

[1:17:53] an accessory dwelling unit is a single

[1:17:55] family dwelling that is subordinate to

[1:17:57] the primary dwelling on the same lot or

[1:17:58] parcel. So you can't have an accessory

[1:18:01] dwelling unit that's accessory to

[1:18:02] nothing. It's got to be uh accessory to

[1:18:05] a primary dwelling to it. Primary

[1:18:07] dwelling means a single family detached

[1:18:09] home that's permitted by the zoning on

[1:18:11] the lot parcel where it's located. So

[1:18:14] what that what that means is that if

[1:18:15] there's a leftover

[1:18:17] >> uh house in a commercial zone, for

[1:18:19] example, a single family home legal

[1:18:21] non-conforming on a commercial property,

[1:18:23] we would not further entrench that

[1:18:25] non-conforming use by saying, "Oh, go

[1:18:26] ahead and have an ADU there." Um you

[1:18:28] wouldn't be allowed to do one there

[1:18:30] because you're supposed to not be doing

[1:18:32] a house there eventually. So only where

[1:18:34] it's allowed by the zoning. The third as

[1:18:36] attached accessory dwelling unit is what

[1:18:38] we are currently calling accessory

[1:18:39] apartments. An accessory dwelling unit

[1:18:41] that is contained within the footprint

[1:18:42] of the primary dwelling or is attached

[1:18:44] directly to it. And fourth that the

[1:18:45] detached dwelling unit is an accessory

[1:18:47] dwelling unit separate from and

[1:18:48] subordinate to the primary dwelling on

[1:18:50] that lot parcel. Uh and then again here

[1:18:53] in that definition mayor to your point

[1:18:54] from earlier such a dwelling must be

[1:18:56] placed on a permanent foundation and

[1:18:57] connected to all utilities.

[1:19:00] Um part two that's the first part. The

[1:19:03] second part of it is the regulations

[1:19:05] that we already have. We're moving them

[1:19:07] from where they are to the new section

[1:19:09] that we're proposing so that they can be

[1:19:10] found easily. So that whole section will

[1:19:12] look like a big strikeout, but fear not,

[1:19:14] it's just getting transferred over to

[1:19:15] the new the new portion. Um, right now,

[1:19:19] and this wouldn't change, attached ADUs

[1:19:22] that we currently call accessory

[1:19:23] apartments would not be allowed in R5 or

[1:19:25] PRD zones. They're they're just not

[1:19:28] allowed in those smaller zones, smaller

[1:19:29] lots, things. Owner occupancy is a

[1:19:32] requirement. They're located inside the

[1:19:34] footprint of the primary home or

[1:19:35] attached to it. Parking gets required

[1:19:37] for it in addition to the primary

[1:19:38] dwellings parking. So, under our code,

[1:19:40] you have to have two parking spaces for

[1:19:41] your primary dwelling. You have to

[1:19:43] provide parking for your accessory

[1:19:44] dwelling as well. Utility meters have to

[1:19:47] be in the property owner's name. You can

[1:19:48] have a second meter for water on your

[1:19:50] accessory dwelling unit on your

[1:19:51] accessory department, but that meter has

[1:19:53] to be in the property owner's name. that

[1:19:54] keeps people from from head faking us

[1:19:57] and running duplexes instead of owner

[1:19:59] occupied accessory dwellings. Um,

[1:20:01] entrances to the ADU aren't supposed to

[1:20:03] be on the same facade as the entrance to

[1:20:04] the home or facing a street and permits

[1:20:07] are required for the work and you have

[1:20:09] to get a rental dwelling license when

[1:20:10] you're done. We we track all the

[1:20:12] accessory apartments in the city

[1:20:13] accessory dwelling.

[1:20:14] >> So, okay. Can I ask that facing the

[1:20:15] street thing?

[1:20:17] >> So, the stairway cannot go down from the

[1:20:19] street side. Well, if you're the

[1:20:22] basement entrance, it would have it

[1:20:23] should be around the side or around the

[1:20:24] rear.

[1:20:25] >> Well, I'm sorry. So, if the entrance is

[1:20:27] on the side,

[1:20:28] >> Uhhuh.

[1:20:29] >> Do the stairs have to be

[1:20:32] >> go down from the back or can they go

[1:20:34] down from the

[1:20:35] >> They could go down from the front. As

[1:20:36] long as it's on the side facade, the

[1:20:38] stairs could go down.

[1:20:39] >> So, facing the street just means on the

[1:20:41] same side as

[1:20:42] >> you want it to be on the front side.

[1:20:43] Makes them look more like a duplex. The

[1:20:45] point of that is to make it not look

[1:20:46] like a duplex.

[1:20:47] >> Go back to that picture of the cute

[1:20:49] little house. This one. No.

[1:20:50] >> This one.

[1:20:51] >> That is cute.

[1:20:51] >> It is cute, right?

[1:20:52] >> Yes. So, in theory, this would not This

[1:20:56] I guess this foreground is the ADU. The

[1:20:58] detached ADU.

[1:20:59] >> Yeah. This is the detach.

[1:21:00] >> Shouldn't face the street.

[1:21:02] >> No, this this shouldn't face a street.

[1:21:04] This This entrance here could face like

[1:21:06] this to a backyard or it could face the

[1:21:08] house. It could face into this backyard,

[1:21:10] but the street is out in front of this

[1:21:12] house. And this shouldn't be this

[1:21:14] shouldn't Well, that's a good question.

[1:21:16] We

[1:21:16] >> Why is [clears throat] it materially

[1:21:17] important? Because it looks cute either

[1:21:18] way. It is cute. Either way, someone's

[1:21:20] in there writing a children's book for

[1:21:21] sure.

[1:21:24] [laughter]

[1:21:26] » Chamomile or something. I don't know.

[1:21:28] But this is [clears throat]

[1:21:30] >> We also don't allow them. So, we'll get

[1:21:32] to setbacks and things, but we wouldn't want detached accessory

[1:21:34] dwelling units to be between the primary

[1:21:36] dwelling on the street. So, they'd be in

[1:21:38] the rear yard or the sideyard.

[1:21:39] >> So, if it's in the rear yard, why do we

[1:21:41] care what direction?

[1:21:42] >> So, in the rear yard, it doesn't matter.

[1:21:43] It can be facing the street, but it

[1:21:45] can't be like I mean is if this is again

[1:21:47] this is not for the detached but for the

[1:21:50] it says detached up here. I'm sorry

[1:21:51] that's just the titles of the slides but

[1:21:53] these are the codes for the accessory

[1:21:54] dwelling units that are part of the

[1:21:56] house. So when you're doing an internal

[1:21:58] accessory dwelling unit like if your

[1:21:59] accessory dwelling unit was inside this

[1:22:01] house and this didn't exist. We wouldn't

[1:22:03] want the entrance to the accessory

[1:22:04] dwelling unit to be facing this street.

[1:22:06] >> That makes much more sense.

[1:22:07] >> That makes sense. So, it's it's partly

[1:22:08] confusing because it's I've got these

[1:22:10] detached pictures, but

[1:22:12] >> I wish we could say it has to

[1:22:13] >> just say if you can move in here soon.

[1:22:16] >> Wait, just like that.

[1:22:19] >> Has to look like this picture.

[1:22:21] >> Yeah. Yeah. We need to have something

[1:22:22] that says it looks as though a

[1:22:23] children's book would be written.

[1:22:25] >> That's appropriate.

[1:22:26] >> If you'll let you build it.

[1:22:29] >> Probably 10-20 would not

[1:22:32] 10-20 was written exactly to prevent

[1:22:34] that. Yes. Sorry.

[1:22:36] Um, so yeah, it couldn't be. And we do

[1:22:39] require rental dwelling licenses. Um,

[1:22:42] and we'll come back to this if we need

[1:22:43] to, but the same facade issue, that's where we're at with that. We

[1:22:47] require permits for work and we require

[1:22:48] licenses for these that you have to take

[1:22:50] out a license to run it as a landlord.

[1:22:52] So, um, detached ADUs, this is the third

[1:22:56] part. So, all those things, we brought

[1:22:58] them back over. We didn't change

[1:22:59] anything about those codes. They're all

[1:23:00] still the same, uh, in this in this

[1:23:02] proposed draft. detached. That's the

[1:23:05] third section of the proposed ordinance.

[1:23:08] Uh they have to be permitted, like we

[1:23:09] said, for lots at least 11,000 square

[1:23:11] feet. For the sake of numbers, for those

[1:23:12] of you that are numbers people, there

[1:23:14] are 5,800 single family residential

[1:23:15] properties in Oram City that are

[1:23:17] currently at least 11,000 ft². Um so not

[1:23:21] a small number. Um not all of them will

[1:23:23] qualify in other ways. Setbacks might

[1:23:25] keep a few from from working, but that's

[1:23:27] the that's the plan. Um size

[1:23:30] restrictions. We have proposed a minimum

[1:23:32] of 200 square feet. That lets us for

[1:23:34] sure require building permits. Um, and

[1:23:38] then never allowed to be larger than 50%

[1:23:39] of the primary dwelling. Again, the the

[1:23:41] point is to keep it subordinate to the existing home. So, if you have a

[1:23:45] little tiny home and you build a

[1:23:46] gigantic accessory dwelling in it, it

[1:23:48] feels a little a little wrong.

[1:23:50] >> Out of balance. Yeah.

[1:23:51] >> Yeah. So nothing would keep you from

[1:23:55] uh from building like if you had a

[1:23:56] little tiny house and it was way back on

[1:23:58] your lot, grandma's old farm lot or

[1:24:00] something and you wanted to build a big

[1:24:01] new house in the front and make the back

[1:24:03] one your accessory dwelling unit if it

[1:24:05] met those if it met by happen stance

[1:24:07] arbor codes would say no to that. But

[1:24:10] the the purpose is that it has to be no

[1:24:12] more than 50% of the size the main

[1:24:14] house. Um lot sizes we we were proposing

[1:24:17] and the planning commission has

[1:24:18] forwarded a recommendation proposing

[1:24:19] this lot sizes between 11,000 and 13,000

[1:24:23] for all intents and purposes square feet

[1:24:25] 850 ft for the maximum size for the

[1:24:27] accessory dwelling unit and no more than

[1:24:30] two bedrooms uh for lots between 13 and

[1:24:33] 15,000 ft²,000 ft for the ADU and no

[1:24:37] more than two bedrooms and the truly

[1:24:38] large lots the 15,000 plus 1,200 ft² for

[1:24:41] the ADU and three bedrooms. Um we we

[1:24:44] picked these numbers out of a lot of

[1:24:46] different codes that we'd read. Um a lot

[1:24:48] go up to 1,200. You see a few that are

[1:24:50] 1500 and that kind of thing, but mostly

[1:24:52] they cap out at about 12 and a lot have

[1:24:55] um 650 ft as a minimum as a maximum for

[1:24:59] smaller lots.

[1:25:01] I'm going to take 50 on 11,000 just cuz

[1:25:03] there are so many house plans for

[1:25:04] accessory dwelling units that are about

[1:25:06] a

[1:25:08] there's just a lot. So that's where we

[1:25:10] came up with those numbers. And again,

[1:25:11] we don't have a lot of time for a whole

[1:25:12] bunch of research before October, so

[1:25:14] crank these in. Um,

[1:25:17] height restrictions, maximum height of

[1:25:19] 20 ft for a pitched roof ADU structure,

[1:25:22] uh, 14 for flat roofs, not to be taller

[1:25:25] than the primary dwelling. Uh, we would

[1:25:27] allow loft spaces under the code that we

[1:25:29] proposed, but not more than 20% of the

[1:25:30] interior of the house. Um, because

[1:25:33] enterprising people will just make a

[1:25:34] loft that goes all the way to 5t over

[1:25:36] here, little stairwell going up, and

[1:25:37] made themselves a second story that's

[1:25:39] not really a second story. So, we

[1:25:40] defined

[1:25:42] loft spaces and then no exterior

[1:25:44] balconies. Um, because again, this is

[1:25:48] the intent of a of a detached accessory

[1:25:50] dwelling unit or the value proposition

[1:25:51] of it is that it it adds another

[1:25:54] dwelling on a property without truly

[1:25:55] affecting the residential character of

[1:25:57] the place where it is and kind of

[1:26:00] undermine that with balconies or

[1:26:02] setbacks that are too close or or what

[1:26:04] have you. So, with that in mind, let's

[1:26:06] talk about setbacks.

[1:26:08] uh from a primary dwelling on the lot.

[1:26:09] We've proposed 10 ft. There was a lot of

[1:26:12] talk at the planning commission about 6

[1:26:13] feet or whether we were 10 feet or 6

[1:26:15] feet. And I asked Emma to do us some and

[1:26:18] she has done for us some examples and 6

[1:26:21] ft was in her brain. So they all show

[1:26:23] accessory dwelling units at 6 ft behind

[1:26:25] a house instead of 10. We'll get to that

[1:26:27] in a second. The actual draft says 10

[1:26:29] ft. Let me get that out of the way now

[1:26:30] when it's as confusing as possible.

[1:26:32] Sorry. Uh 20 ft from any dwelling on an

[1:26:35] adjacent lot. And if somebody happens to

[1:26:38] have a non-conforming house that's real

[1:26:40] close and 10 ft wouldn't keep you 20 ft

[1:26:42] from that, then 20 this rule would kick

[1:26:43] in and keep you at least 20 ft from

[1:26:45] their house. 10 ft from any interior

[1:26:47] property line, a side or rear property

[1:26:49] and 25 ft from any public or private

[1:26:52] street. And then again, we talked about

[1:26:54] this a little bit, but not to be located

[1:26:55] between the primary dwelling and a

[1:26:57] street of any kind, corner side, double

[1:26:59] frontage lot, or in front of the house

[1:27:02] just because the house is a long way

[1:27:03] back. You still have to be behind the

[1:27:05] house. Um and again we because the code

[1:27:09] requires it, state code requires it,

[1:27:11] we've got a section saying you can use

[1:27:13] an existing accessory structure that can

[1:27:15] be converted or remodeled meeting our

[1:27:17] setbacks and or other height

[1:27:19] requirements and things like that.

[1:27:22] Um any questions about setbacks we can

[1:27:24] come back to. There's a I've seen a few

[1:27:26] properties in Oram where they have

[1:27:29] attached unit whether it be a shed or

[1:27:31] something that goes right up to the

[1:27:32] fence and goes and you showed it in your

[1:27:33] one of your first pictures goes to the

[1:27:35] property line where a lot of cases that

[1:27:36] doesn't make sense but there may be some

[1:27:38] cases where it does make sense ways to

[1:27:39] work with those

[1:27:41] >> you we'd have to look at them I don't

[1:27:42] know and we could talk more about that

[1:27:44] as we look at the examples that uh Emma

[1:27:46] prepared for us too so but it's a good question right now our

[1:27:50] accessory structure so like if you have

[1:27:52] a detached garage you can be very close

[1:27:54] to your property line with a detached

[1:27:55] garage. We propose that 10 ft as a

[1:27:58] minimum just because it feels like uh it

[1:28:01] feels like a dwelling that someone lives

[1:28:03] in being close to your property line is

[1:28:04] different than their garage where they

[1:28:06] keep their lawn mower and what

[1:28:09] um so but that's we can talk about that

[1:28:11] more. It's a good point. Uh let's see

[1:28:15] couple of quick things about parking

[1:28:16] before and other things before we get to

[1:28:17] the uh the examples of what these might

[1:28:20] look like in real life or at least where

[1:28:22] they'd be located. Uh parking needs to

[1:28:24] be located these we kept these from the

[1:28:26] existing accessory apartments code that

[1:28:29] we have. We just mirrored that located

[1:28:30] behind the front setback. So front yard

[1:28:33] driveway spaces like here you couldn't

[1:28:35] say well I've got my parking from ADU.

[1:28:36] You have to provide it like around the

[1:28:38] side of the house or something. So it's

[1:28:39] specific and is truly used for the ADU

[1:28:42] as opposed to um the homeowner living

[1:28:45] here is going to have his car parked in

[1:28:46] there and let the ADU occupant be parked

[1:28:48] in back have to move his car. That just

[1:28:50] guarantees they're on the street. So, we

[1:28:51] require them to be behind driveway or

[1:28:54] outside of the driveway. Um, one

[1:28:56] additional space, this is right out of

[1:28:58] the um the state requirements. One

[1:29:00] additional space for any DAU that's 200

[1:29:02] to 650 ft. Two additional spaces for

[1:29:05] anything bigger than 650 ft².

[1:29:09] Now, these slides that um I'm going to

[1:29:12] show you in a second, again, utility

[1:29:13] service. This is another thing that

[1:29:14] we're allowed to do. We're allowed to

[1:29:15] review the utility uh service

[1:29:18] availability and make sure that it can

[1:29:19] handle that our water and sewer and

[1:29:22] things can handle having another unit

[1:29:23] here. It's not usually a problem. Adus

[1:29:26] have become prevalent enough that

[1:29:27] whenever we do updates to water things,

[1:29:29] they're usually the consultants are

[1:29:31] always asking how you know what's

[1:29:33] allowed in these areas etc. And because

[1:29:35] accessory apartments have been allowed

[1:29:36] in or for a long time, that's probably

[1:29:38] already been part of the consideration.

[1:29:40] But there might be those cases where we

[1:29:42] want to make sure that uh they can run

[1:29:44] water lines because there maybe there

[1:29:45] aren't easements to get the water line

[1:29:46] back there. Maybe it doesn't work. We

[1:29:48] just want to make sure that's part of

[1:29:48] the review. And again, they're required

[1:29:50] to obtain permits for the new

[1:29:52] construction and get a rental dwelling

[1:29:54] license just like interior accessory

[1:29:56] dwellings.

[1:29:56] >> And then then they'll have their own

[1:29:58] separate hookup charge, right? Like we

[1:30:00] do with apartment buildings.

[1:30:02] >> Exactly.

[1:30:04] Um let's see now. Here's some examples.

[1:30:08] Emma pulled these lots at random. just

[1:30:10] looking at aerials and then zooming in

[1:30:12] to see if it would meet our 11,000 ft or

[1:30:14] larger. Tried to get some different kind

[1:30:16] of lot configurations and different lot

[1:30:18] sizes and then applied our proposed um

[1:30:22] ordinance, the one that the drafted

[1:30:24] ordinance to these lots. So, you'll see

[1:30:28] parking spaces. She tried to say where

[1:30:29] we where they could locate parking if

[1:30:31] they had room to do that. Uh and the

[1:30:33] size that would be allowed based on the

[1:30:34] lot size. So based on this lot's size,

[1:30:39] the available square footage in the back

[1:30:40] after setbacks of 25 from the road, 10

[1:30:43] from the interiors, and six from the

[1:30:45] house. Again, it should be 10, but six

[1:30:47] is one of the things we talked about.

[1:30:50] Um, they would have a they would be

[1:30:52] allowed a 1,000T accessory detach

[1:30:54] accessory dwelling unit and they could

[1:30:57] site one there. So that's that's kind of

[1:30:59] the space it would take up in the rear

[1:31:00] yard and what it might be. That's a

[1:31:02] likely spot for them to put it. That

[1:31:04] make sense? I have five or six of these

[1:31:06] just as examples so you can consider

[1:31:08] >> that was kind of unique. That's a corner

[1:31:10] lot, right? Those are a little more

[1:31:11] complicated,

[1:31:12] >> little harder to do. We wanted some

[1:31:14] different kinds of ones because there's

[1:31:15] a cul there's a culde-sac lot in here,

[1:31:17] too. [clears throat] Um, so far in her

[1:31:20] random in her random review, she has not

[1:31:22] found one that would not work. An 11,000

[1:31:25] plus foot lot that you could not site

[1:31:27] one.

[1:31:30] This is another one. This lot is 11,325

[1:31:33] ft. So it would get an 850 foot

[1:31:36] allowance for one. They might not take

[1:31:38] up the whole thing, but you could put a

[1:31:39] maximum size one there. And those are

[1:31:41] its setbacks.

[1:31:44] >> What's the setback from the neighbor the

[1:31:46] rear

[1:31:46] >> from here or here? This is 10

[1:31:48] >> corner lot again.

[1:31:49] >> It's showing 10.

[1:31:50] >> This is another corner lot.

[1:31:51] >> Uh-huh. Got a corner here.

[1:31:54] >> So there 25 from that corner side and 10

[1:31:56] from the interior here.

[1:31:58] Total distance from here to the house. I

[1:32:00] don't know. This is a larger sideyard.

[1:32:02] This home could be because it's a

[1:32:03] sidehood, it could be located closer

[1:32:05] than that. In other situations in this

[1:32:07] particular one, it's it's not.

[1:32:11] And then again, parking for the parking,

[1:32:13] you're going to see four on each one or

[1:32:15] some if it's a smaller one, maybe three,

[1:32:17] but two for the primary dwelling in the

[1:32:19] garage there. And then the driveway

[1:32:21] doesn't get a count. They'd have to pour

[1:32:22] a pad around the side here like that for

[1:32:24] the parking for the ADU.

[1:32:29] Here's the culde-sac lot. Again, they'd

[1:32:31] have to get creative with the parking.

[1:32:33] They could do them in tandem. They could

[1:32:34] just run a longer driveway or something,

[1:32:35] but they could do a thousand square foot

[1:32:37] one back here, meet those setbacks.

[1:32:40] Uh, and you can see kind of where it

[1:32:42] would likely put the unit.

[1:32:44] >> Why are we using a th00and?

[1:32:45] >> Cuz that's what would be allowed. This

[1:32:47] is a 13,000t lot. So, under the draft

[1:32:49] that we currently have, you could do up

[1:32:51] to a,000 ft of detached accessory

[1:32:53] dwelling unit.

[1:32:56] >> You could do smaller. This is the

[1:32:58] maximum. This is the biggest one.

[1:33:01] that you this is the biggest one you

[1:33:02] could do regardless. Even if they had

[1:33:03] three times this much space back here,

[1:33:05] that's the biggest one they could do

[1:33:08] based on the draft.

[1:33:09] >> Jared, I might have missed this before,

[1:33:10] but can you have tandem parking behind

[1:33:12] the house?

[1:33:13] >> You you can under um under state code

[1:33:16] under one of the on that 1020 the one

[1:33:18] that doesn't allow us to do pretty. It

[1:33:19] also doesn't allow us to not count

[1:33:20] tandem parking for accessory.

[1:33:24] Great question.

[1:33:27] and the parking. Favorite target of

[1:33:29] planners everywhere. Not allowed. They don't let us target that anymore.

[1:33:33] We're discriminatory.

[1:33:35] Um here's another culde-sac lot. Those

[1:33:37] should be the hardest ones to locate

[1:33:38] these on generally speaking. And then so

[1:33:40] far not too bad. This is this is larger

[1:33:43] than 11,000. Sorry, larger than 11,000

[1:33:45] ft, but not large enough to allow the

[1:33:47] 1,000T maximum. So you get 850 ft back

[1:33:50] here, but you could do up to 850 ft back

[1:33:53] there and make your setbacks work the

[1:33:54] way that we have proposed them at 10 ft.

[1:33:58] >> So are you saying that that is 10 ft

[1:34:00] from the house?

[1:34:02] >> This is this is this around the house

[1:34:04] just this gray you're seeing is actually

[1:34:06] only 6 ft. If it were 10, it would still

[1:34:08] actually make it. But

[1:34:09] >> would still look like clip the corner of

[1:34:11] it.

[1:34:12] >> Yeah, it might.

[1:34:12] >> Building envelope.

[1:34:13] >> It might. And they would have to they'd

[1:34:16] have to

[1:34:17] >> Well, I'm sorry. I'm not understanding

[1:34:18] cuz that 10 ft looks about the same as

[1:34:20] >> it's 10 ft.

[1:34:21] >> Yeah. So you're saying the top red

[1:34:23] corner

[1:34:24] >> is 6 feet from the from the house.

[1:34:27] >> This is 6 feet here. Right here.

[1:34:30] >> Okay. So that's set back more than six

[1:34:32] feet.

[1:34:32] >> Yeah. This is set back more than six.

[1:34:38] » Sorry.

[1:34:39] >> No, that I just couldn't tell.

[1:34:40] >> Yeah. No, I'm sorry. That's that's why

[1:34:42] it's a little confusing because it's the

[1:34:43] six feet instead of the 10. that it it's

[1:34:46] actually the code says the code that we

[1:34:47] proposed says 10 but we drew these at

[1:34:50] six just having confused ourselves

[1:34:52] talking about six versus 10.

[1:34:53] >> Yeah. But the 10 is the property line.

[1:34:55] >> Yes.

[1:34:56] >> Go through the logic of the six versus

[1:34:57] 10. Why they

[1:34:58] >> six foot is it's a great question. The

[1:35:01] six feet is what you're required the

[1:35:03] current if you want to build an

[1:35:04] accessory a shed or a garage in your

[1:35:06] backyard you have to stay at least 6

[1:35:07] feet from your house. We wrote the draft

[1:35:10] saying 10 just to make it a uniform. 10

[1:35:12] ft from the house, 10 feet from property

[1:35:13] lines that are interior and 25 from

[1:35:16] streets. But uh the commission had when

[1:35:18] they were discussing the draft, they

[1:35:20] talked about what's required for

[1:35:22] current, you know, 6 ft is 6 ft's in

[1:35:24] their brains because that's what we

[1:35:25] require for accessories. And this is

[1:35:27] accessory in name at least accessory

[1:35:29] dwelling units. So 6 ft is a pretty

[1:35:31] standard. If you're 6 ft behind the

[1:35:33] house, if you're separated 6 ft from

[1:35:35] your dwelling, you don't have fire code

[1:35:38] problems with the with the garage or the

[1:35:40] shed or the or the accessory dwelling in

[1:35:42] it, frankly, anything that you're doing.

[1:35:44] That's why six uh 10 just to to make it

[1:35:47] for privacy's purposes, I guess. But,

[1:35:50] you know, if if you wanted to allow

[1:35:51] people to do 6 ft instead of 10 from

[1:35:53] their house to make some like if this

[1:35:56] one, for example, was 10 and it was just

[1:35:58] clipping the corner, 6 ft wouldn't clip

[1:36:01] the corner. If you want to make it more

[1:36:02] accessible to people, six is a

[1:36:04] reasonable standard to close it's close

[1:36:06] to their house and lets them keep it

[1:36:08] close to their house and and still get

[1:36:09] to do it without um you know violating

[1:36:12] anybody else's setbacks

[1:36:14] >> probably favor making it more flexible

[1:36:15] for the homeowner who has to live the

[1:36:17] consequences of how far the place is but

[1:36:18] >> have to make a decision. So

[1:36:20] >> it doesn't impact the neighbors. I think

[1:36:21] it and that's my I don't know when it's

[1:36:24] the right time to say this but for me

[1:36:26] impact on the neighbors is key here.

[1:36:28] >> Sure. Because the tendency is I'm going

[1:36:30] to tuck this as far away from me as

[1:36:32] possible. Right. And yet you're putting

[1:36:36] it closer to your neighbor's especially

[1:36:39] are we

[1:36:41] so you're saying right now on our

[1:36:43] commercial code we have a 1:1 height

[1:36:46] ratio. So you're 10t away. You can't

[1:36:48] have higher than 10 ft if you're So I

[1:36:51] almost feel like we should put the same

[1:36:53] protection in here so that the impact

[1:36:56] goes to the person who's trying to gain

[1:36:58] the benefit

[1:36:59] >> for the primary dwelling.

[1:37:00] >> Yeah. For the primary benefit or

[1:37:03] dwelling because they're the one getting

[1:37:04] the financial benefit. They're the one,

[1:37:06] you know, it's on their property. So why

[1:37:08] are you infringing on your neighbors

[1:37:10] privacy?

[1:37:10] >> Sure.

[1:37:11] >> By trying to put it as far back in your

[1:37:13] yard.

[1:37:14] >> And we could we could entertain that.

[1:37:15] Absolutely. would like to see how you

[1:37:16] could make that fit with the law.

[1:37:19] >> Still,

[1:37:20] >> I don't think it would be a problem with

[1:37:21] the law. We're allowed to regulate the

[1:37:23] height and things. And actually, I'm

[1:37:25] going to go all the way back to the

[1:37:26] writer's cottage. That's not real tall.

[1:37:29] You know, you could even with that peak,

[1:37:33] that wouldn't be hard to sight. And

[1:37:34] still, you know, if you're and and I'm not

[1:37:39] I I completely agree with the thoughts

[1:37:41] there because the accessory dwelling

[1:37:43] units, especially detached accessory

[1:37:45] dwelling units, the whole point is for

[1:37:47] them not to be an impact to the

[1:37:49] character, right? So, if they're

[1:37:51] maintaining that, anything that pushes

[1:37:53] them to be smaller or located more

[1:37:55] unobtrusively, that's good. We just The

[1:37:59] only thing I worry about is falling a

[1:38:00] foul of this right here, the

[1:38:02] unreasonably difficult. As long as it's

[1:38:04] not unreasonably difficult, then we're

[1:38:06] not going to have a problem with the

[1:38:07] state on it.

[1:38:08] >> Would you do like a range?

[1:38:10] >> Yeah. Let me get back to the heights.

[1:38:11] Sorry. A range is a good idea.

[1:38:13] >> Like range from from property line,

[1:38:16] right?

[1:38:16] >> Increase height as you're further from

[1:38:17] the property.

[1:38:18] >> Yeah,

[1:38:18] >> sure. Absolutely.

[1:38:19] >> Because we do that in for ours that are

[1:38:22] next to commercial. We use that as a

[1:38:24] protection. That's just standard

[1:38:26] planning.

[1:38:26] >> Sure.

[1:38:27] >> Protections.

[1:38:28] >> We could absolutely implement something

[1:38:29] like that. Look what that would I don't

[1:38:30] think it would be a problem for the the

[1:38:32] state code if as long as it was, you

[1:38:34] know,

[1:38:34] >> and I want that I I would like to have

[1:38:36] you help me figure this out with not

[1:38:38] only height, but also once again I'm

[1:38:41] going to come back to this impact should

[1:38:43] be felt by the homeowner who is building

[1:38:45] it on their property. Their property

[1:38:47] should fill the impact more than the

[1:38:49] property to the side or behind them.

[1:38:51] >> Sure. And if you're pushing it clear

[1:38:53] back in the corner because we're only

[1:38:54] doing 10 feet when they could put it

[1:38:57] within six feet of their house and still

[1:38:59] build it, then that gives them the

[1:39:02] impact instead of their neighbor because

[1:39:04] then if there's a baby crying in the

[1:39:06] middle of the night in that little

[1:39:07] detached ADU, they're going to hear it

[1:39:09] more than their neighbor's going to hear

[1:39:10] it. Something like that. That would kind

[1:39:12] of be my thoughts on how do we make sure

[1:39:15] that we're giving the opportunity but

[1:39:17] also protecting the next door neighbor

[1:39:20] from negative impacts.

[1:39:21] >> Sure.

[1:39:23] >> The building height in the code here is

[1:39:26] what 20 ft

[1:39:29] >> for a pitched roof and 14 for a flat. So

[1:39:33] if you did the one for one like you're

[1:39:35] talking about commercial zones, that

[1:39:37] would mean a pitch roof would need to be

[1:39:39] 20 feet from the from a property line

[1:39:43] which now

[1:39:45] protects neighbors from that

[1:39:47] encroachment and would ne would probably

[1:39:51] in the code we have 10 ft. Uh building

[1:39:55] code you can't go below six, right?

[1:39:58] >> Yeah.

[1:39:59] So the minimum we could go for an

[1:40:02] accessory

[1:40:03] structure would be six feet from the

[1:40:06] from a property

[1:40:07] >> from the existing home. Yeah.

[1:40:09] >> Yeah.

[1:40:10] Because then building code issues

[1:40:12] come in and

[1:40:13] >> and I I totally get that. Yeah. And to

[1:40:15] me I'm more comfortable with kind of

[1:40:17] that because once again this should be

[1:40:19] not noticed by anyone. You know, that's

[1:40:22] why the internal ADUs work out so well

[1:40:24] is because really if you got the parking

[1:40:26] then you don't have the

[1:40:28] >> and I I do think ultimately

[1:40:31] I I I think I'm reasonably sure that

[1:40:36] internal ADUs will also continue to be

[1:40:39] more popular. They're just generally

[1:40:40] easier to to to do. Um although if if

[1:40:45] I'm wrong, the the conversations that

[1:40:47] I've had with other planners is that the

[1:40:48] thing that's going to change all of this

[1:40:50] or that's going to make that not the

[1:40:51] case is the advent of these buy it on

[1:40:54] Amazon, have it crane dropped into your

[1:40:56] backyard on a pad, pretty easy, clad it

[1:40:59] with something. And that's going to

[1:41:00] change all that. It's stick building was

[1:41:03] much more expensive than remodeling your

[1:41:05] basement to make it meets building

[1:41:06] codes. But that's changing. So go ahead.

[1:41:10] um

[1:41:11] we have dinner ready for us and take a

[1:41:14] but I don't know what the rest of your

[1:41:16] presentation I want to make sure that we

[1:41:17] break in an appropriate point for a

[1:41:19] quick blessing on the food and and grab

[1:41:20] our dinner but

[1:41:21] >> this is as boring as this so you can

[1:41:25] >> this is as good as good as this gets

[1:41:28] asked council member if she would offer

[1:41:31] a blessing on the food

[1:41:35] >> and dear father in heaven we're so

[1:41:36] grateful this day that we can gather

[1:41:37] together in this free country to have a

[1:41:39] meeting and discuss what's in the best

[1:41:40] interest of our city. We're grateful

[1:41:42] today also for the food and we ask that

[1:41:43] you please bless it and bless us to have

[1:41:45] wisdom as we continue throughout this

[1:41:47] night. And we say this in the name of

[1:41:48] Jesus Christ. Amen.

[1:41:49] >> Amen. Thank you. I didn't know if there

[1:41:52] was there was going to be like a time

[1:41:53] before you do an interpretive dance or

[1:41:55] >> Oh, there's no dancing

[1:41:56] >> like that. Okay.

[1:41:58] >> Not legally allowed to dance.

[1:42:04] » Exactly.

[1:42:04] >> That's part of the dance class. I can

[1:42:08] you can take a break and grab your

[1:42:09] dinners if you want. You want to do

[1:42:10] that? like it is like 5

[1:44:44] You don't want your sweater on anymore?

[1:44:46] It might be cool inside.

[1:44:50] >> We can take it with us.

[1:45:10] How are you guys? You're kind. Thank

[1:45:12] you, sir. Let me get that for you. Yeah,

[1:45:15] there you go. Please.

[1:45:27] Oh, sorry.

[1:47:02] We're going to wait for just a second

[1:47:04] for Jen to get back. Council member

[1:47:06] Goom.

[1:47:17] Take a peek.

[1:50:00] just this I have a couple more of these

[1:50:02] slides that show kind of where it is.

[1:50:04] But um so I'll do that and then we can

[1:50:05] talk about what we want to come back

[1:50:07] with and maybe some other potentials or

[1:50:09] other things we want to talk. This is

[1:50:11] just another culde-sac lot where you

[1:50:12] could locate again two for the primary

[1:50:14] dwelling. you do too for this 850

[1:50:17] footer. You could put that back here

[1:50:18] without too much trouble. Um, here's a

[1:50:21] slightly more complicated culde-sac lot

[1:50:23] on aore

[1:50:25] shaped lot. A little harder to locate,

[1:50:27] but they still if we're at six from the

[1:50:30] house here, you can make it at 10 from

[1:50:31] the house. It's probably shrink the

[1:50:33] footprint, but again, you can do these

[1:50:35] two two parking spaces and maybe get two

[1:50:37] more. It might be a little tricky. You

[1:50:38] don't have to do tandem, but make it

[1:50:40] work. So the the thing that we wanted to

[1:50:43] show was kind of exactly what came up

[1:50:45] was wanted to show the other houses

[1:50:47] around. So you have to imagine here's

[1:50:48] the house that I live in. I'm building

[1:50:50] this thousand foot guest house, guest

[1:50:53] cottage, accessory dwelling unit. This

[1:50:56] is this other person's house. Um so

[1:50:59] relevant to that height discussion, this

[1:51:02] footprint is one thing, you know, taking

[1:51:03] up the space, but the height of it is a

[1:51:05] whole other matter. So that that

[1:51:08] proximity is what if I'm hearing you

[1:51:10] right, Len, is what's been concerning to

[1:51:12] you.

[1:51:12] >> The proximity of another structure here

[1:51:14] that's maybe taller and is much closer

[1:51:16] to this house this has ever been. Not

[1:51:20] that they couldn't do an addition here

[1:51:21] or something and probably meet some

[1:51:23] setbacks, but still this is different, a

[1:51:25] separate guest house and we live in

[1:51:26] there all the time. So um I think that's

[1:51:29] my second to last one and we can talk

[1:51:30] about different changes. And this is a

[1:51:33] little interior lot. It's a smaller lot,

[1:51:35] just barely over the 11,000. Well, 12196

[1:51:37] actually just a big house. Um, 850 ft²,

[1:51:40] you could locate it back there.

[1:51:43] A lot of those Amazon deals I've been

[1:51:45] talking about are like 600 ft. They're a

[1:51:47] little smaller than this. Anybody, any

[1:51:49] one of these could accommodate one of

[1:51:50] those. Uh, but again, you have proximity

[1:51:53] to this house here, back a back lot

[1:51:55] house right there, and this folk this house here. This folks, these folks

[1:52:01] are going to see that more than than

[1:52:02] they would have otherwise. Those are my

[1:52:05] only um slides about that. Um relevant

[1:52:09] to the idea of height. Again, this is

[1:52:11] not a real tall structure. So, if we if

[1:52:13] we went a different direction on height

[1:52:15] and tried to look at uh a kind of a

[1:52:18] graded height like L was talking about,

[1:52:21] would you like to see what that might

[1:52:22] look like for these? We could uh we

[1:52:24] could take a look at that, bring it back

[1:52:26] uh to a work session and talk about

[1:52:28] gradating the height from relating it to

[1:52:31] distance from property lights starting

[1:52:33] at that 10 and going up from there. Uh

[1:52:35] is that something that's interesting? I

[1:52:36] need to hear if that's something that

[1:52:38] I'd like to see.

[1:52:38] >> So I think it's important makes it see

[1:52:41] that too.

[1:52:42] >> Yeah. And this again looking at these it

[1:52:45] probably won't be hard to accommodate.

[1:52:46] It's not going to keep anybody from

[1:52:47] getting to do it. think just looking at

[1:52:49] the kinds of units if these are the

[1:52:51] kinds of units you want to see. Now, we

[1:52:54] do get people coming in and calling in

[1:52:56] sometimes saying, "Well, why can't I

[1:52:58] have two stories for my accessory

[1:53:00] dwelling unit or why can't I put a a

[1:53:02] unit over my garage or why can't I have

[1:53:04] this tall?" Because of those reasons. We

[1:53:06] don't want to intrude upon other other

[1:53:08] properties that are adjacent. They don't

[1:53:10] love that. They don't accept that

[1:53:12] necessarily, but if that's the goal that

[1:53:15] these kinds of units, if that's the

[1:53:17] goal, these can be easily accommodated

[1:53:19] with a gradated height. Take a look at

[1:53:21] that. Is that something? Is there

[1:53:22] anything else in there we ought to look

[1:53:22] at? And bringing it back to you and

[1:53:24] we'll bring we'll come whatever other

[1:53:26] work session you're willing to invite us

[1:53:27] to and we'll talk about changes to it.

[1:53:29] >> Is the height and the setback if we

[1:53:31] could even on the larger lots

[1:53:34] >> kind of. So once again, they're going to

[1:53:36] try to put it in the very back corner so

[1:53:38] they don't feel the impact. I almost

[1:53:40] feel like

[1:53:41] find some type of a range that puts it

[1:53:43] closer to their house. I mean, maybe on

[1:53:46] the really big ones, you say you have to

[1:53:48] put it within 20 feet of your house and

[1:53:50] still have 40 ft behind you. You know,

[1:53:52] if there's a really big lot instead of

[1:53:54] just

[1:53:55] >> okay,

[1:53:56] >> sticking it back there.

[1:53:56] >> So, explore like a range of a location

[1:53:59] range

[1:53:59] >> location relative relative to the house.

[1:54:02] >> Starting with the house is the point as

[1:54:04] opposed to the property.

[1:54:06] >> Okay. That's kind of

[1:54:07] >> you can't be located a certain you can't

[1:54:09] be located further than X from your

[1:54:11] house for example.

[1:54:13] >> Well, so I want to be flexible with that

[1:54:14] but at the same time depend that that

[1:54:17] would depend on how close it is to the

[1:54:19] house behind. So you're still 50 ft from

[1:54:22] the yard behind

[1:54:23] >> then I don't care if you're 20 30t from

[1:54:25] the house but

[1:54:26] >> it's this is

[1:54:28] >> you know challenge. It is a it is a

[1:54:31] challenge, but I again it's one that you

[1:54:33] can't really can't really can't worry

[1:54:36] too much about it because the the

[1:54:37] challenge I was going to bring up is the

[1:54:38] same one that happens with these

[1:54:40] distance rules like 20 ft between you

[1:54:42] can't locate an accessory structure

[1:54:44] closer than 20 ft to a dwelling on

[1:54:46] another lot. So somebody locates their

[1:54:48] garage, their detached garage, and then

[1:54:51] gentleman B from the lot next door wants

[1:54:53] to add on to his house

[1:54:55] >> and it's going to put it too close to

[1:54:56] this guy's garage. And I say, "Well, I'm

[1:54:58] sorry. You can't add on to your house

[1:54:59] now. can't limited me,

[1:55:01] >> right?

[1:55:01] >> You can't really avoid that conflict. It

[1:55:03] happens and we we'd be in the same kind

[1:55:06] of conflicting area. Well, you got to if

[1:55:07] you're not too close to this other

[1:55:08] house, we don't care until that other

[1:55:10] house adds on. So, we have to really

[1:55:12] look at what they're able to add on. So

[1:55:13] what you're doing and that is such a

[1:55:15] great example because what what I see

[1:55:17] right now by basing the setback on the nearby dwelling

[1:55:22] >> is you are taking their property away

[1:55:25] from their ability to develop their

[1:55:28] property away from them so the person

[1:55:30] across the fence can develop their

[1:55:32] property. Right.

[1:55:33] >> So that's why I think if we could do

[1:55:35] something more from a property line

[1:55:37] basis that impacts the property that has it, then we're going to avoid those

[1:55:42] problems down the road. Because frankly,

[1:55:44] I'm going to be a little miffed if I buy

[1:55:47] a house thinking that I'm going to be

[1:55:48] able to add on. Then the city comes and

[1:55:50] says, "Oh, by the way, you can't because

[1:55:52] there's this 12ft high dwelling,

[1:55:55] you know, 10 ft from your property line

[1:55:57] and you can't do that." Now,

[1:55:59] >> we we probably want to do something.

[1:56:01] Maybe we could look at doing something

[1:56:03] like uh we could base a requirement for

[1:56:07] an accessory dwelling, you know, like

[1:56:08] this, not solely on setbacks from

[1:56:11] property lines. It could have several

[1:56:12] setback requirements, right? Within a

[1:56:14] certain proximity to your pro primary

[1:56:16] dwelling, not further than, for example,

[1:56:18] and not closer than to a property line

[1:56:21] and not closer than not to the dwelling

[1:56:23] on the adjacent lot, but to the setback

[1:56:25] that's adjacent to it, to an adjacent

[1:56:27] setback line. So you add add 10 ft to

[1:56:31] that line or something. You say they're

[1:56:32] their rear yard setback in the zoning is

[1:56:34] 25 ft. Your place can't your new place

[1:56:37] here could never be closer than 35 ft or

[1:56:40] 40 ft to that setback line. So that if

[1:56:43] they're not built to it now, but they

[1:56:44] want to in the future, they're not going

[1:56:45] to have a problem. See what I mean?

[1:56:47] >> I would love to see what that looks like

[1:56:48] cuz right now I'm a little confused by

[1:56:50] what you said.

[1:56:50] >> So would I and I think someone else

[1:56:51] should write it. [laughter]

[1:56:53] Talk to

[1:56:53] >> Aaron. I kind of get it. But you know

[1:56:55] what? Like if this was the 10-ft

[1:56:58] requirement,

[1:56:59] >> yeah,

[1:56:59] >> that you the ordinance would say this

[1:57:02] 10-ft line

[1:57:04] >> affects the setbacks there, not where

[1:57:06] this

[1:57:07] >> not not the location of the house, but

[1:57:08] the setback that it could meet in the

[1:57:10] future, right? That's exactly right.

[1:57:12] >> I think we could do that. Um the

[1:57:14] question becomes and we we can take a

[1:57:16] look at how that would how that would

[1:57:18] pan out. We'll do the same kind of

[1:57:20] random samples and if it looks like it

[1:57:22] would be what we only want to be careful

[1:57:24] of is that it not

[1:57:26] um not fall a foul of the writers

[1:57:28] >> in prohibitive is if they can't do a

[1:57:31] minimum 200 square foot type agency

[1:57:34] >> right I mean it can always go that's the

[1:57:35] other thing they can always go small

[1:57:36] >> clients right

[1:57:37] >> it can always go smaller as long as we

[1:57:39] don't fall foul of whatever unreasonably

[1:57:41] means here then we should be okay and I

[1:57:43] don't again I we had some conversations

[1:57:46] internally as staff about this kind of

[1:57:48] thing and uh just and it makes sense for

[1:57:51] the larger groups too we had them with

[1:57:52] the planning commission as well bear in

[1:57:55] mind that there there will be properties

[1:57:57] as much as this opens up the ability for

[1:58:00] 5,800 or 5,800 lots that are 11,000 ft²

[1:58:03] or bigger. We haven't found any yet that

[1:58:05] couldn't accommodate one with the what

[1:58:07] we wrote. And even when we change the

[1:58:09] writing and make it a little bit more

[1:58:10] restrictive, we still probably won't

[1:58:12] find a lot. But there will be some. But

[1:58:15] the the the requirement is not that

[1:58:17] every single lot be allowed to do a

[1:58:19] detached AU. And remember that those

[1:58:23] that do wind up not being eligible for

[1:58:25] detached ADU, they're still eligible for

[1:58:27] an internal ADU. They're not barred out

[1:58:30] of the system. They just might not get

[1:58:31] to have it be

[1:58:32] >> going to say cuz that house right there

[1:58:33] looks like a pretty big house.

[1:58:35] >> You could definitely put was retired and

[1:58:38] I'm empty nest or everything and I

[1:58:39] complain that, you know, I need to get

[1:58:40] some additional income. I could easily

[1:58:43] do an internal ADU in that home. I'm

[1:58:45] guessing

[1:58:45] >> my neighbors I have three neighbors who

[1:58:47] have added them onto their homes and we

[1:58:49] don't have that big a house.

[1:58:51] >> Yeah, exactly. And these are the

[1:58:52] maximums. They're not you don't if if it

[1:58:54] didn't quite fit, you could always

[1:58:55] shrink that a little bit, do a different

[1:58:56] unit. There lots of options,

[1:58:58] >> but there's an issue that I've

[1:59:03] just thought of with all this and it's

[1:59:05] one of these things that why we wish we

[1:59:07] had more time from the state that we

[1:59:10] might need to think of is it has to hook

[1:59:12] into utilities. Yeah.

[1:59:14] >> So, one reality of utilities, you could

[1:59:16] have a home like this and where the

[1:59:19] utility, I don't know if this is a

[1:59:21] through street or not. They may hook

[1:59:23] into say sewer here,

[1:59:27] but the only place for this really

[1:59:30] feasibly to hook into the sewer might be

[1:59:32] out here. And because of the depth of

[1:59:34] the sewer, they may want to bring in a

[1:59:37] whole bunch of fill.

[1:59:39] >> Oh, don't go down that road.

[1:59:40] >> And [laughter] and I think we probably

[1:59:42] need to look at some of those issues too

[1:59:46] that they can't and a detach accessory

[1:59:51] dwelling unit cannot

[1:59:53] raise the grade

[1:59:54] >> right that's

[1:59:56] >> existing grade

[1:59:58] >> so many phone calls right now on those

[1:59:59] other home

[2:00:00] >> yeah that's a good point

[2:00:02] >> yeah because when you're putting it in

[2:00:04] the backyard oftent times especially if

[2:00:07] you're on a corner lot the nearest sewer

[2:00:10] that you can hook into may not be

[2:00:13] the one that the main home is or it may

[2:00:16] because of topography at a different

[2:00:18] elevation

[2:00:21] and that you know so that's something

[2:00:22] we're going to have to think through we

[2:00:24] can we can there's a there's a natural

[2:00:26] place to add that language Gary where we create the required statement

[2:00:30] that you

[2:00:32] >> that that you can or the the allowed

[2:00:34] statement that we review your utility

[2:00:35] access and stuff we'll put it in there

[2:00:37] about

[2:00:38] >> grade it's just hard to do so I think

[2:00:40] you should go into timeout brought

[2:00:44] So you're seeing how the sausitude's

[2:00:45] made at community development with me

[2:00:48] and Jared. [laughter]

[2:00:50] >> I want to see meetings. They sound

[2:00:51] entertaining.

[2:00:52] >> Five or six more months from the state

[2:00:54] to get it adopted correctly.

[2:00:56] >> We're going to swing and we might miss a

[2:00:58] little bit. We'll we'll fix. But

[2:01:00] anything we can find in advance great

[2:01:02] because that's perfect. I hadn't thought

[2:01:03] of that at all.

[2:01:05] >> Well, let us take a look. If it's all

[2:01:06] right, then we'll we'll go back and look

[2:01:07] at graded height starting lower at at

[2:01:10] basing setbacks in three points from the house itself from property

[2:01:15] lines and from setback lines on other

[2:01:17] properties and then grade issues too,

[2:01:20] Gary. We'll take a look at that. Any

[2:01:21] other things that were missing in there

[2:01:22] or does the other stuff work for you?

[2:01:26] >> Chair, this is Quinn.

[2:01:29] Um, I I mentioned this last time. Uh,

[2:01:31] you talked about this, but it would just

[2:01:33] still be helpful for me to understand

[2:01:35] lessons from cities that have detached

[2:01:39] ADU ordinances on the books. I I'm just

[2:01:42] really curious in our ability to

[2:01:44] estimate what percent of that those

[2:01:46] 5,800

[2:01:48] uh lots um may may be interested in this

[2:01:52] over time.

[2:01:53] >> Um, yeah. And I I'm also interested in

[2:01:56] knowing what what is our current number

[2:01:57] of ADUs if anybody knows that.

[2:02:00] >> Our current list of ex of detach we

[2:02:03] haven't had any but the internal ADUs.

[2:02:05] That's a that's a good question. I

[2:02:06] should have that number in my head and I

[2:02:08] don't but I'll get it.

[2:02:10] >> Thank you.

[2:02:11] >> And then we'd have to distinguish

[2:02:12] between ADUs that are licensed and legal

[2:02:15] and those that are just sort of

[2:02:20] » like volunteers.

[2:02:21] >> Seems like it's they're not licensed.

[2:02:23] only a few hundred.

[2:02:25] >> They're they're not as I mean I I've

[2:02:28] administered I I think I mentioned this

[2:02:29] to the planning commission. I

[2:02:30] administered two codes previously that

[2:02:32] both allowed to detach accessory

[2:02:34] dwelling units. I had never processed

[2:02:36] one just because they're difficult to

[2:02:37] do. They're more difficult to do and

[2:02:39] they're more expensive and is getting

[2:02:40] cheaper. Uh but we had you know 30 or

[2:02:43] 40. We allowed ADUs internally to use

[2:02:45] for 10 15 years. We only had 30 or 40.

[2:02:48] ORM has a lot comparatively um to other

[2:02:51] cities I think you'll find. And most of

[2:02:53] the guys I've talked to in other

[2:02:55] planning departments that have allowed

[2:02:56] detached accessory dwelling units,

[2:02:58] they've got a few. They're not as

[2:03:00] prevalent as as you'd think, but I'll check around.

[2:03:03] >> I would be curious to know if those were

[2:03:05] built at the time of construction of the

[2:03:08] house.

[2:03:08] >> Yeah, cuz we're built out. Ours is going

[2:03:11] to be all retrofit stuff, right? So,

[2:03:14] that's a whole different

[2:03:15] >> A lot of a lot of new home designs come

[2:03:17] in ready made for ADUs. They don't

[2:03:20] necessarily pull the trigger on doing it

[2:03:21] at first, but they build them and their their home builder, Ivory, or

[2:03:26] whoever's doing it is advising them, you

[2:03:27] want to do this cuz in the future you

[2:03:28] might want to do it, you know, might as

[2:03:30] well do it now. And they just don't pull

[2:03:32] the trigger on on getting the license.

[2:03:34] And so we do these second kitchen

[2:03:35] covenants with them instead.

[2:03:37] >> Well, and I'm talking detached.

[2:03:38] >> Yeah, the detached ones.

[2:03:41] See, it'll all be retrofitted to

[2:03:42] everyone

[2:03:43] >> too that I think if you were to go to

[2:03:45] Provo and look in some of their older

[2:03:47] neighborhoods where they have like from

[2:03:49] the

[2:03:50] >> Oh, good point. Yeah.

[2:03:50] >> over 100 years ago where they had a

[2:03:53] detached garage that was just naturally

[2:03:55] part of the

[2:03:57] >> of the house and the design.

[2:03:59] >> We don't see that as much in Orm as the

[2:04:03] >> I'll check with that's a good

[2:04:04] suggestion. Thank you. Anybody who wants

[2:04:06] a tour, I can take you on a tour of

[2:04:09] areas that have those and see a bunch.

[2:04:12] >> I'd like one, Gary.

[2:04:14] >> No, [laughter]

[2:04:17] sounds good to me. Okay. So, we'll go

[2:04:20] back and look at those things and we'll

[2:04:21] bring it back. Quinn, I'll get those

[2:04:22] numbers for you and we'll check around

[2:04:24] with the other cities, too. I didn't

[2:04:25] have a chance to do that yet, but I

[2:04:26] remember you asking about it. uh the

[2:04:28] ones that I checked with so far, no

[2:04:29] success,

[2:04:31] >> but I'll I'll check with

[2:04:32] >> I I just think it will help us

[2:04:33] understand the scale of what we're

[2:04:35] dealing with. Um and you know, the

[2:04:37] potential impacts of some of these

[2:04:39] decisions. I I think we're all sensitive

[2:04:42] to the potential for impacts,

[2:04:44] particularly as Len was mentioning on on

[2:04:46] neighbors who don't have any choice

[2:04:47] about this. But, uh if it's if it's

[2:04:50] really going to be just a very small

[2:04:52] number over time, I think that might

[2:04:54] help shape the decisions we make.

[2:04:57] Great. Thank you. I'll get that data.

[2:04:59] >> Great. Anything else, council?

[2:05:02] >> Thank you.

[2:05:04] >> Yes, mayor. Uh, not related to this, but

[2:05:07] and up. We told you we'd come back with

[2:05:09] some information. Uh, if you remember,

[2:05:12] the council looked at an ordinance

[2:05:14] dealing with the radius of noticing that

[2:05:18] we do. Uh, we do 1,000 ft to go to 2,000

[2:05:22] ft. And the question was, what was that?

[2:05:24] wasn't a big deal to quickly run the

[2:05:26] numbers on two projects that uh you just

[2:05:29] recently dealt with. Remember the neater

[2:05:32] property and the uh home at home?

[2:05:37] >> Home built. Yeah, home built. Uh the

[2:05:40] noticing at 1,000 ft that we did was

[2:05:44] $346.

[2:05:46] If uh we had gone to 2,000 and noticed

[2:05:49] it, it would be $850.

[2:05:53] And then the property that the city

[2:05:56] owns, uh, that reszone at 1,000 ft, the

[2:06:00] cost was $443.

[2:06:03] If we had done 2,000 ft radius, it it

[2:06:07] would have been $949.

[2:06:10] It's

[2:06:10] >> like about $500.

[2:06:12] >> Yeah, it's a little slightly more than

[2:06:15] double.

[2:06:16] >> Okay.

[2:06:17] But the the costs are relatively

[2:06:20] uh small and for better noticing and uh

[2:06:25] visibility and transparency for the

[2:06:27] community. It I I don't see it terrible.

[2:06:32] >> So 2,000 ft then.

[2:06:34] >> Yeah. And that's that's what we did. So

[2:06:36] ju just we told you we'd come back with

[2:06:38] those numbers and just

[2:06:39] >> I appreciate that.

[2:06:40] >> Let you know.

[2:06:43] >> All right.

[2:06:44] >> Gary, that's great. And I'm I'm

[2:06:46] delighted that those are small numbers.

[2:06:47] Does that include staff time as well?

[2:06:51] >> Uh on that is posted

[2:06:54] >> that's just posted but it doesn't uh

[2:06:57] less than an hour. It's not that.

[2:07:01] >> Yeah.

[2:07:02] >> Having done that part of having that

[2:07:04] chapter in my life too being at that pay

[2:07:07] grade where I slap bailing labels on.

[2:07:10] >> You should see us stuff envelopes

[2:07:11] >> and stuff envelope. I'm a good envelope

[2:07:13] stuffer.

[2:07:13] >> Something to see. We bought a machine.

[2:07:16] >> We get AI to do that. What is wrong with

[2:07:17] this case?

[2:07:19] >> Yeah, we we bought a machine that takes

[2:07:21] the

[2:07:22] >> the flyer, stuffs it uh folds it and

[2:07:26] stuffs it into the envelope and then we

[2:07:28] just mail it.

[2:07:29] >> You name it the intern. [laughter]

[2:07:33] » We we affectionately call it Jared.

[2:07:39] The worst the worst part of it of

[2:07:41] stuffing the envelopes is actually the

[2:07:42] machine is good enough that the worst

[2:07:43] part is the putting the little sticker

[2:07:45] labels on all the envelopes is the only

[2:07:47] thing worse than putting those stickers

[2:07:48] on the envelopes is trying to get

[2:07:50] technology to an actual mail merch.

[2:07:54] [laughter]

[2:07:55] >> Nobody can make I don't believe it's

[2:07:57] ever been done.

[2:08:00] >> Thank you.

[2:08:00] >> Grace is the queen of mail.

[2:08:01] >> You want to do that?

[2:08:03] >> Come fix us.

[2:08:05] >> That's right. I just pulled up our 80s

[2:08:07] list from our website. There's 859 ADUs.

[2:08:10] >> Oh, you good to Oh, wow. That's

[2:08:12] >> And then in our last business or our

[2:08:15] building permit report for the month of

[2:08:18] this is through May out of

[2:08:21] 20 new single family homes.

[2:08:25] Five of them are being built with an ADU

[2:08:29] in it.

[2:08:30] >> That means that they applied for an ADU.

[2:08:32] The other one's going to be fitted for

[2:08:33] one but not applying.

[2:08:34] >> Correct. Yeah,

[2:08:35] >> that means they're building them with

[2:08:36] >> they're building with the building

[2:08:39] >> uh home builders now design a home so

[2:08:43] that it either has the ADU in it when

[2:08:46] they build it or it can very easily be

[2:08:49] converted.

[2:08:50] >> So that's what's happening behind me.

[2:08:52] All six of them have the basement

[2:08:54] entrance, but they haven't put in the

[2:08:56] dividing door,

[2:08:58] >> right? So,

[2:08:59] >> and that's easy.

[2:09:00] >> The space and then if they want to,

[2:09:02] they're going to put that door and then

[2:09:04] you have two spaces.

[2:09:06] >> All right. Thank you.

[2:09:07] >> Thanks.

[2:09:08] >> Um, quickly go through our this

[2:09:11] evening's agenda. We've got several items under uh mayor's items

[2:09:18] you've heard by council. We have a

[2:09:20] presentation on national night out

[2:09:23] and then we speech. That's the only one.

[2:09:27] and then personal appearances. And then

[2:09:30] we have a consent items which is uh for

[2:09:32] approval of the meeting minutes and then

[2:09:34] the appointment of Brian Wait to the

[2:09:36] advance advisory commission.

[2:09:38] >> He will probably be here this evening.

[2:09:40] We could maybe acknowledge him stand or

[2:09:43] something.

[2:09:43] >> Okay.

[2:09:44] >> Then we have a scheduled public hearing.

[2:09:47] It's uh reszone that was before us a

[2:09:51] little while back and we and the

[2:09:54] applicant asked if they could come back

[2:09:55] and put a road with Geneva Road if you

[2:10:00] remember that. Um I do have a question

[2:10:03] about this that I'd rather ask you to

[2:10:06] hear than to take up time out there for

[2:10:08] Jared.

[2:10:09] >> I'm right back here. Sorry.

[2:10:11] >> Okay. Um, I've been looking at the PRD

[2:10:14] ordinance

[2:10:16] and the PRD ordinance requires certain

[2:10:20] building materials and different front

[2:10:22] elevations.

[2:10:23] >> Yeah.

[2:10:23] >> Is that still with the within what the

[2:10:25] state law allows?

[2:10:27] >> PRDs are exempt from that state.

[2:10:29] >> Okay.

[2:10:29] >> And a PRD when they're signing up for

[2:10:31] it, you can make them do whatever.

[2:10:33] >> Okay. That was my question. I just

[2:10:35] wanted to make sure that

[2:10:36] >> Good question

[2:10:37] >> that. So, it looks like they still need

[2:10:40] >> they need 60 40% on the backside. They

[2:10:42] haven't shown that right.

[2:10:43] >> They haven't shown that correctly. So,

[2:10:46] they'll put something on there. Okay.

[2:10:48] >> All right. I'm

[2:10:49] >> so proud of them for getting over the

[2:10:50] road hurdle that I didn't want to hassle

[2:10:52] too much about the 40% of the backside.

[2:10:53] So,

[2:10:54] >> yeah, that one I have a question on

[2:10:56] that.

[2:10:56] >> Okay. And probably here's a good place

[2:10:57] to

[2:10:59] >> um masonry fence

[2:11:02] >> between the commercial residential. I

[2:11:04] was aware of that. I didn't really see

[2:11:06] that mentioned. Yeah, that that would be

[2:11:07] part of it. It's it's it's got to be

[2:11:09] part of the plan that they do. We'll get

[2:11:11] that in the site plan. It didn't show on

[2:11:13] this on the concept plan very well, but

[2:11:14] we do.

[2:11:15] >> Great. And then do we we don't require

[2:11:17] CCN?

[2:11:18] >> We don't except that because the PRD

[2:11:21] will have the shared lot lines. They'll

[2:11:23] have the shared they'll have the zero

[2:11:24] lot lines and they'll have the shared

[2:11:25] parking. They'll have to have one anyway

[2:11:27] because they're going to share property

[2:11:28] for the parking.

[2:11:30] >> They'll have to have an HOA governor at

[2:11:31] least that.

[2:11:32] >> Oh, yeah. Yep. So, they need to know

[2:11:34] that. require it, but they'll that's

[2:11:35] their

[2:11:36] >> and they'll be told that.

[2:11:38] >> Oh, yeah.

[2:11:38] >> I had that conversation there.

[2:11:40] >> Well, that's not surprising that they'd

[2:11:42] understand that.

[2:11:44] >> Um, and then my other Oh, here's Okay,

[2:11:47] so we had appendix KK that was Farm

[2:11:50] Haven.

[2:11:50] >> Well, appendix KK is actually a whole

[2:11:52] bunch of this all of Appendix KK

[2:11:55] contains all of the PRD site concept

[2:11:57] plans.

[2:11:58] >> Oh, okay. So, I guess my question is, do

[2:11:59] you are you keeping the Farm Haven

[2:12:01] iteration in there and we're showing

[2:12:03] that it was replaced?

[2:12:04] >> Yeah, exit out and

[2:12:07] >> they'll both be there.

[2:12:09] >> Be there, but the one Farm Haven should

[2:12:11] be xed out because not it won't be in

[2:12:12] effect after tonight.

[2:12:14] >> But if someone wants to go back and

[2:12:15] reference it, they can go see

[2:12:17] our

[2:12:18] >> I had that question. Um,

[2:12:20] >> okay, last question on our visitor

[2:12:23] parking.

[2:12:24] You said we're within

[2:12:26] >> Yeah. 2.5 is required there. Seven

[2:12:29] >> because I noticed from Wester from Farm

[2:12:31] Haven to Westerly Way, they reduced it

[2:12:33] by half.

[2:12:34] >> The parking

[2:12:36] >> from the uh Yeah,

[2:12:37] >> the percent the density is the same, but

[2:12:39] the parking's

[2:12:41] >> I I didn't analyze the parking. So,

[2:12:43] >> they So, they were just adding more it

[2:12:45] sounds like on Farm Haven. Okay. So, but

[2:12:47] we're good on all of that.

[2:12:48] >> It does meet the code requirement for

[2:12:50] the 2.5. Yeah,

[2:12:51] >> we're good. Thank you. Any other

[2:12:53] questions on this item here?

[2:12:58] Any other questions on anything that's

[2:13:00] on the agenda?

[2:13:02] >> We do not have a closed meeting. Well,

[2:13:04] we do have a closed meeting.

[2:13:15] » Right. We got 15.

[2:13:22] I think well that wraps up the work

[2:13:23] session then we'll see you all in the in

[2:13:27] the regular meeting

[2:13:30] to it. Thanks everyone.

[2:13:32] >> Have a motion to adjurnn.

[2:13:34] >> Oh motion to adjurnn.

[2:13:35] >> Have a motion to adjurnn. Is there a

[2:13:37] second?

[2:13:38] >> Right. All those in favor say.

[2:13:40] >> I

[2:13:42] >> thank you.

[2:13:45] [clears throat]

[2:13:48] We do need to make sure that we have at

[2:13:49] least one person online. So, we have a

[2:13:51] form.

[2:13:53] >> I said I

[2:13:57] >> And I said I

[2:14:04] [clears throat]

[2:14:04] >> may as well.

[2:14:08] I should

[2:14:17] » talk

[2:14:26] about

[2:14:31] weird thing.

[2:14:38] Hey,

[2:14:39] >> recording's off.

[2:14:42] I got to move in.

[2:14:46] >> So, it's not recording in here.

[2:14:47] >> I got to move it over.

[2:14:49] >> Give me a job.

[2:14:59] » You know what? I think

[2:15:01] about

[2:15:03] anything, but that was a community

[2:15:05] action.

[2:15:07] I had flashes of it was never all fun

[2:15:10] because of the responsibilities I had.

[2:15:12] >> Yeah. I mean,

[2:15:13] >> see, I don't have

[2:15:15] >> responsibilities now.

[2:15:19] As far as a CEO or something,

[2:15:33] that's right.

[2:15:56] Shel

[2:16:06] 30 seconds.

[2:16:17] I just

[2:16:20] need to hear

[2:16:39] test test.

[2:17:24] Want to know what you think?

[2:18:05] Feels

[2:18:18] too tight here.

[2:18:21] >> When we have three chairs,

[2:18:24] >> sometimes we need to go

[2:18:29] chairs be.

[2:18:31] >> No, no. after

[2:18:36] » you can't really stick it there for ALJ.

[2:18:39] I just stick it under there because

[2:18:40] nobody

[2:18:42] sits there.

[2:18:59] You want me to roll it out?

[2:19:35] Hey, could I try it?

[2:19:44] Are you on Zoom right now?

[2:19:48] YouTube start off.

[2:19:59] Um well

[2:20:16] Wait, I'm getting serious.

[2:20:22] » Oh, sorry.

[2:20:28] » It's just my laptop and it's not coming

[2:20:30] through the speakers.

[2:20:36] » Maybe I could change my speakers.

[2:20:51] Let me try this.

[2:20:59] » No, you don't get anything if it's on

[2:21:00] press.

[2:21:02] >> Wait, am I on display?

[2:21:10] magazine.

[2:21:12] I don't think it works.

[2:21:48] How are you?

[2:21:49] >> What time are we at?

[2:21:56] » Can you hear me? Okay. Just testing.

[2:22:00] >> Yeah, we got you.

[2:22:02] Thank you, counselor. I'll put it back.

[2:22:48] All right, put me back on. We're going

[2:22:50] to try it again.

[2:23:08] Keep it planting.

[2:23:14] Sorry.

[2:23:26] We're watching Taking My Son to Japanese

[2:23:27] Daycare.

[2:23:28] >> Yes.

[2:23:34] » And right now it's not

[2:23:50] All

[2:23:57] right.

[2:24:15] Yes.

[2:24:31] Yeah,

[2:24:41] » he keeps trying to run away.

[2:24:43] >> Just uh meeting with them was really

[2:24:45] nice.

[2:25:02] I think they're there.

[2:25:25] Yes. So prayer.

[2:25:28] Where do you want us?

[2:25:29] >> You just come up here. Come night.

[2:25:48] Let me see.

[2:25:51] Started

[2:26:06] simple sentence

[2:26:15] already.

[2:26:39] I don't think

[2:26:50] Hey,

[2:27:06] give me a second.

[2:27:49] Come on little buddy.

[2:28:00] » All right. Good evening. I'd like to

[2:28:02] welcome you to this evening's ORM city

[2:28:04] council meeting. Tonight is um it's

[2:28:07] still July 28th as it was this morning,

[2:28:09] 2026. I'm going to call the meeting to

[2:28:11] order. I want to acknowledge that

[2:28:14] council members Kilpac, Mulestein, and

[2:28:18] Mikum are joining us electronically and

[2:28:22] so we do have everybody here this

[2:28:24] evening. Um we go ahead and have the

[2:28:27] invocation and in or inspirational

[2:28:29] thought by Mark McCumber and pledge of

[2:28:32] allegiance by Kim McComber.

[2:28:40] Our father in heaven, we are grateful

[2:28:42] for the great blessing that we have to

[2:28:44] live in this favored land. We are

[2:28:46] grateful to celebrate this year the

[2:28:48] 250th anniversary of our founding. We

[2:28:51] are grateful uh to thee for raising up

[2:28:54] our founding fathers. You establish

[2:28:57] liberty and freedom here. We pray that

[2:28:59] bless us in our efforts to keep this

[2:29:02] republic and to and keep our freedoms

[2:29:05] and make the future bright for the next

[2:29:07] generation. We are grateful to celebrate

[2:29:10] this month as well the pioneers who came

[2:29:12] and sacrificed and and built a wonderful

[2:29:15] society that we benefit from. We are

[2:29:18] grateful for those who have served uh

[2:29:20] the city of ORM and those who serve now

[2:29:22] and pray that thou would bless them in

[2:29:24] their deliberations. And we pray in the

[2:29:26] name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

[2:29:27] >> Amen.

[2:29:36] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

[2:29:40] United States of America and to the

[2:29:42] republic for which it stands, one nation

[2:29:46] under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[2:29:50] justice for all.

[2:29:55] » Thank you for the um invocation and for

[2:29:59] the leading us in the pledge. Appreciate

[2:30:01] it.

[2:30:02] >> [gasps]

[2:30:02] >> All right, council. We have one

[2:30:05] [clears throat] item under mayor's

[2:30:06] report and items referred by the council

[2:30:09] and it's a presentation on National

[2:30:12] Night Out. Our presenters will be

[2:30:14] Lieutenant Blake Fan and Cameron Wilson.

[2:30:18] So turn the time over to them.

[2:30:34] us back.

[2:30:36] There we go. Thanks for having us back.

[2:30:39] I still don't like speaking in public.

[2:30:42] >> I was very excited. Um we're just here

[2:30:45] to give you a little presentation and a

[2:30:47] formal invitation to our National Night

[2:30:49] Out event.

[2:30:51] Go ahead.

[2:30:51] >> So, yeah, National Night Out, as you can

[2:30:53] see up there, it it the purpose is to

[2:30:56] enhance the relationship between the

[2:30:57] community and law enforcement. It's a

[2:30:59] chance for us to to get together and

[2:31:01] have fun with uh with the public and let

[2:31:04] them interact with us, us interact with

[2:31:06] them and just have that that rapport,

[2:31:10] that that fun time.

[2:31:13] >> It happens all around the country on the

[2:31:15] first Tuesday in August. ORM does it

[2:31:17] better than anyone else.

[2:31:19] >> We're biased, of course.

[2:31:20] >> We're heavily biased, but we're right,

[2:31:22] so it doesn't matter. Um, this is also

[2:31:24] our formal apology to the parks

[2:31:26] department for ruining your grass last

[2:31:27] year. It won't happen again.

[2:31:29] >> Yeah, there's no no foam gun machine.

[2:31:31] >> Our fun little foam machine. We thought

[2:31:33] it was great. They had to resaw and we

[2:31:36] had no idea. So, like not happening

[2:31:38] again, I promise.

[2:31:39] >> Yeah, we killed the grass for sure.

[2:31:41] >> Um, it's next Tuesday, August 4th, from

[2:31:45] 5:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. in the city

[2:31:47] center park. So, you see, look, look how

[2:31:50] happy Blake was right there in his

[2:31:52] element, just having fun.

[2:31:54] >> Super fun. So, yeah, some of the some of

[2:31:57] the stuff we have planned. Again, we're

[2:31:59] going to have a dunk tank. Uh we've got

[2:32:01] the swap vehicles, food trucks, uh

[2:32:04] fingerprinting.

[2:32:05] We have a helicopter. Is it a Blackhawk?

[2:32:07] It is a Blackhawk this year. Okay. Uh

[2:32:10] we're going to have the drunk goggles,

[2:32:11] the K9 team will be there. We are going

[2:32:13] to crush cars again. Uh face paint, nine

[2:32:16] square, all that stuff up there and much

[2:32:19] more. We do have a bunch of other

[2:32:20] community partners that will be there as

[2:32:22] well with booths um handing out stuff

[2:32:25] and and interacting with the public as

[2:32:27] well.

[2:32:27] >> Yeah, you can come dunk an officer. I

[2:32:29] love that picture. Lieutenant Giles's

[2:32:31] face is just

[2:32:32] >> I did that last year and if it's over

[2:32:34] 100° like it's been, I will be getting

[2:32:36] in there again.

[2:32:38] >> A couple years ago, they complained

[2:32:39] because the water was too cold. So, the

[2:32:40] fire department's coming early so the

[2:32:42] water can heat up with the sun. So

[2:32:44] they'll have a nice

[2:32:46] I've done it I've done a dog tank before

[2:32:48] and no it was bracing. It's there's

[2:32:51] nothing like that little tiny seat just

[2:32:53] go

[2:32:54] >> and you're you're toast. It's fun. It's

[2:32:56] refreshing.

[2:32:57] >> It's very refreshing. [laughter]

[2:32:59] >> Um we have some awesome community

[2:33:00] partner booths coming this year. We have

[2:33:02] a very supportive community. They love

[2:33:03] to be involved with things like this. Um

[2:33:05] it's a pretty stacked list. They're all

[2:33:07] going to do their own activities and

[2:33:09] just get out there with the public. And

[2:33:12] because ours is the best, we have a

[2:33:13] bunch of outside agencies that choose to

[2:33:15] come to ours instead of neighboring

[2:33:16] cities. So we've got highway safety,

[2:33:20] UVU, BYU, UTA, National Guard, and the

[2:33:22] Department of Commerce also coming this

[2:33:24] year for us. So

[2:33:26] >> absolutely. And you can see the list of

[2:33:28] community partners. And that's not all

[2:33:30] of them. I think we ended up with 26 25

[2:33:32] or 26 that that committed.

[2:33:34] >> And so this is everyone's official

[2:33:36] invitation August 4th. And it seems like

[2:33:39] there's some fun little giveaways that

[2:33:41] these partners have.

[2:33:43] >> Yes, they all bring Nintendo. The guy

[2:33:45] for Nintendo was like, I'm going to set

[2:33:46] up some gaming consoles. We're going to

[2:33:48] give away this and they're so excited.

[2:33:50] So, we've got some really stellar

[2:33:51] community partners that

[2:33:53] >> love to be there and support. So, it'll

[2:33:54] be a good time.

[2:33:55] >> It'll be a good time.

[2:33:56] >> Do you guys have any questions or

[2:33:57] anything you need from us?

[2:33:58] >> Oh, it's a great event. I've been

[2:34:00] attending last year and I'll be there

[2:34:02] this year.

[2:34:03] >> I do have one ask. Um, I'm wondering if

[2:34:07] you could um reach out to Wasatch Mental

[2:34:10] Health that has um counselors in some of

[2:34:13] our schools.

[2:34:14] >> I had was in a meeting with the new

[2:34:16] school district and there were some

[2:34:18] counselors there that um would h had

[2:34:21] some of their um students that were

[2:34:24] afraid of the our police were typically

[2:34:26] afraid of the police the uniform. So, I

[2:34:29] don't know if we could maybe invite

[2:34:31] them, you know, to um come and see our

[2:34:36] officers in this great environment. You

[2:34:38] guys are always very friendly, very

[2:34:40] kind, very fun,

[2:34:41] >> so they can play volleyball with y'all

[2:34:43] and

[2:34:44] >> get you get you in the dunk. So, that

[2:34:46] would be maybe an ask.

[2:34:47] >> We touched base a couple weeks ago at

[2:34:49] the reading with police event that we

[2:34:50] did and Wasatch Behavioral is coming and

[2:34:52] setting up a booth and has sent it out

[2:34:54] to their clinicians to invite their

[2:34:57] folks to come. You're already on top of

[2:34:58] that.

[2:34:58] >> I was going to say we chatted about it.

[2:34:59] I The little behavioral health

[2:35:01] specialist in me was so excited to merge

[2:35:03] those two worlds. So, it was a great

[2:35:05] idea.

[2:35:05] >> Perfect. Thank you for doing that.

[2:35:07] >> No problem. Anything else?

[2:35:10] >> Anything else, council? Anything else?

[2:35:12] Those on online or virtually?

[2:35:16] >> Guess not. Thank you. We'll see you next

[2:35:18] Tuesday.

[2:35:22] » Right. The next item on the agenda is

[2:35:24] our personal time for personal

[2:35:25] appearances. Um time has been set aside

[2:35:28] for the public to express their ideas,

[2:35:30] concerns, and comments on items not

[2:35:32] scheduled as public hearings on the

[2:35:34] agenda. Those wishing to speak are

[2:35:37] encouraged to show respect for those who

[2:35:39] serve the city. Comments should focus on

[2:35:42] issues concerning the city. And those

[2:35:44] wishing to speak have signed up already.

[2:35:47] And I have this I have the list here.

[2:35:50] And so we'll go ahead and and start with the public comments. Um the first

[2:35:57] um is Chris Hammond and after Miss

[2:36:00] Hammond, Renie Reeves.

[2:36:05] Welcome and and thank you for your

[2:36:07] email. I want to let you know I got you

[2:36:08] I received your email. Thank you.

[2:36:12] Um I want to take a little bit of a

[2:36:14] different take tonight. I am grateful to

[2:36:17] live in America where we have freedom of

[2:36:19] speech. we have the opportunity to do

[2:36:21] what we're doing here tonight. And I

[2:36:24] just wanted to give a little bit of

[2:36:26] background. In my 40s, I was left with

[2:36:30] four children to raise on my own. And my

[2:36:32] father encouraged me to invest in real

[2:36:34] estate. And that is what I have done.

[2:36:37] And as I've looked at what we're doing

[2:36:39] and how things are moving along, I want

[2:36:41] to express the fact that the police

[2:36:44] department is trying to build bridges

[2:36:46] and I'm concerned that we're making

[2:36:49] walls in the neighborhoods by saying

[2:36:52] that things are not right and you can't

[2:36:55] do this at your property. And uh I I

[2:36:58] just want to deal with things that are

[2:37:00] true. So some of the comments have been

[2:37:02] we have short-term rentals so we can't

[2:37:05] have kids in school. Well, there is

[2:37:07] nothing. There's no correlation between

[2:37:09] that. The reason that we're decreasing

[2:37:11] the number of kids in school is because

[2:37:13] my grandkids don't want to have kids.

[2:37:15] They don't want to spend the money. They

[2:37:17] don't see this as a thing to do. And

[2:37:19] it's not just here in Utah. It's across

[2:37:21] the nation. Um I as a real estate agent

[2:37:25] will look and say affordability, which

[2:37:28] we talk about all the time. We can't

[2:37:29] afford it. Can't do this. And so I

[2:37:32] recommend that someone build a home and

[2:37:34] have an apartment so they can afford to

[2:37:36] be there whether it's a young family or

[2:37:39] whether it's a senior citizen that

[2:37:41] that's the way you can stay in a home.

[2:37:42] That's the way you can have property.

[2:37:44] And I think we need to look at what are

[2:37:46] the critical issues and the legal

[2:37:49] things. We have personal property rights

[2:37:51] and we want to look at those. And the

[2:37:53] constitution says we are as a government

[2:37:55] supposed to protect the people. we're

[2:37:57] not supposed to oversee them and tell

[2:38:00] them how to do things. And I hope that

[2:38:01] we'll consider that. Um, it is important

[2:38:05] that we look at the consequences of

[2:38:09] making false statements. And I don't

[2:38:11] think anything has been said about

[2:38:13] people coming forward and saying that

[2:38:15] kid was in my neighborhood and and they

[2:38:18] came across my fence and we're in my

[2:38:20] driveway to get their ball and so that's

[2:38:22] offensive and I'm going to call the cops

[2:38:23] on them. And there we've got to do

[2:38:26] something to say you can't falsely

[2:38:29] report an infringement on someone's

[2:38:31] rights and have no consequence for that

[2:38:33] and do multiple multiple where the

[2:38:35] police are being called and there's

[2:38:36] nothing to stand up for that. There is

[2:38:39] no correlation between short-term

[2:38:40] rentals and housing availability.

[2:38:43] 185 homes in ORM are available. Over up

[2:38:47] to 600 rentals are available. Having the

[2:38:50] 30 or 40 short-term rentals that are

[2:38:52] standalone homes on the market is not

[2:38:55] going to change that and not change any

[2:38:57] of those kinds of things. I can go on

[2:38:59] and on. You guys have received my

[2:39:00] emails.

[2:39:02] I hope that we can come to something

[2:39:04] where we build bridges and we have

[2:39:06] neighbors that enjoy each other and can

[2:39:09] come to some kind of a compromise on how

[2:39:12] we deal with our neighborhood. Thank

[2:39:14] you.

[2:39:14] >> All right.

[2:39:15] >> So, can I ask Chris, are you sending

[2:39:16] your emails to me?

[2:39:17] >> No.

[2:39:18] >> You're not? No.

[2:39:21] >> All right. Thank you. All right. Uh,

[2:39:24] Miss Reeves, you're up. And then after

[2:39:27] you, um, Keith Walker.

[2:39:31] >> Hi, my name is Renie Reeves and I live

[2:39:32] in South Thorum, just off of 2000 South.

[2:39:35] About a year ago, I came to a city

[2:39:37] council meeting and expressed concern

[2:39:39] about crossing 2000 South. Since then,

[2:39:41] you guys have put in time and effort and

[2:39:43] getting a crosswalk installed. My

[2:39:45] neighbors and I feel a lot safer. cars

[2:39:47] stop if they see us waiting, which

[2:39:48] didn't happen before. My neighbors have

[2:39:50] told me often how grateful they are. I

[2:39:53] wanted to come to this meeting to tell

[2:39:54] you thank you for listening and taking

[2:39:56] action. It's made a big difference to my

[2:39:58] neighbors and I thank you guys so much.

[2:40:01] >> Thank you. Yes,

[2:40:03] >> Remy, you have grown like a foot since

[2:40:05] last year. I'm so happy. I just want to

[2:40:08] for those of you who are new on the

[2:40:09] council, she got a petition in her

[2:40:11] neighborhood. She brought it very

[2:40:13] professionally and presented that to the

[2:40:15] city council. and you are just an

[2:40:17] example for all of our residents to come

[2:40:19] and advocate. So, thank you.

[2:40:21] >> Thank you so much.

[2:40:22] >> Thank you. Up next is U. Mr. Keith

[2:40:25] Walker and after him, Katie.

[2:40:30] » Thank you, Mayor and City Council for

[2:40:32] letting me address you in this evening.

[2:40:35] I will touch base on several items or

[2:40:37] issues that are all inter intertwined

[2:40:39] and need your be addressed by you to

[2:40:42] keep Orm City, the family city USA to be

[2:40:45] proud of. The city is currently paving

[2:40:48] streets in North Orum, which we are very

[2:40:49] grateful for at a great cost to the

[2:40:52] city. The issue is traders parked along

[2:40:55] the street that are not been moved, that

[2:40:57] have been there for 5 months or longer,

[2:41:00] that have been paved around and leaving

[2:41:02] an incomplete and a poorl looking job. I

[2:41:04] have a car parked across the street from

[2:41:06] me now that's not been moved for 3

[2:41:08] months. My best guess it will not be

[2:41:10] moved unless we call somebody to tow it.

[2:41:13] Uh but we'll address that, but it'll be

[2:41:15] paved around probably again at sometime

[2:41:17] later this week. Uh the underlying issue

[2:41:20] in this issue and some of it is in a

[2:41:23] twob block area that I live in by four

[2:41:25] blocks long. the area of six square

[2:41:27] blocks. I have three sober living

[2:41:31] uh rehab homes, one Airbnb, 11 houses

[2:41:35] with apartments not legal in the city,

[2:41:37] renting rooms in houses and basement, no

[2:41:40] private entrances, no kitchen, just

[2:41:42] renting rooms.

[2:41:44] Uh the neighbors, I have a neighbor that

[2:41:46] has seven cars at the home all the time.

[2:41:48] They're decent neighbors, but it's

[2:41:49] obvious they're not just a family with

[2:41:51] seven cars. Uh the question is what are

[2:41:55] we going to do about these issues that

[2:41:57] are destroying the appearance and

[2:41:59] backbone of the city of ORM and the

[2:42:01] family city USA. I also have another

[2:42:04] kind of a pet peeve in my back for years

[2:42:06] and years. I have the duplexes and

[2:42:09] forplexes in ORM city or with these

[2:42:13] other things are mentioned are an issue.

[2:42:15] Uh, I have

[2:42:18] family members that involved in these

[2:42:20] and I have a n I'm going to share

[2:42:22] something. I have a 92-year-old dad

[2:42:25] that will not let me help him with his

[2:42:28] apartment half the time because of his

[2:42:30] stubbornness and want to do it himself.

[2:42:32] But the issue I have is these forplexes

[2:42:34] and duplexes are all over the city.

[2:42:37] They're incomeroucing properties within

[2:42:40] the city. The city should require these

[2:42:42] properties to be which allows many

[2:42:46] families to be taken care of by their

[2:42:48] landlords. Not just called

[2:42:51] on to rent and gain income from with no

[2:42:54] obligation to their tenants. No lawns,

[2:42:57] just wheat patches, junkyards, junk

[2:42:59] areas. And I know some of this is the

[2:43:00] tenants that they have to deal with. All

[2:43:03] of the items concern, all of the items

[2:43:06] committed on this evening, comment on

[2:43:09] this evening, are incomeroucing

[2:43:10] properties or businesses.

[2:43:14] in one way or another. Their owner their

[2:43:16] owners are only care about their

[2:43:18] dollars. No return on investment to the

[2:43:20] city or no return to the community. The

[2:43:23] families are forced to live in

[2:43:25] conditions that are not the best and

[2:43:27] some of its attendance problems. I

[2:43:29] encourage you to be careful what you do

[2:43:31] over the next several weeks. These

[2:43:32] businesses in the city generally become

[2:43:35] a big eyesore to the to the future of

[2:43:37] the city that everyone is is uh

[2:43:43] preaching for better housing options

[2:43:45] because long-term they are not. And

[2:43:47] there's areas in the cities and Provo

[2:43:50] Vineyard American Fork that you can go

[2:43:52] find with housing and cars and stuff all

[2:43:55] over that you can't get around and I

[2:43:57] just encourage you to be careful what

[2:43:58] you do over the next few months. Thank

[2:44:00] you.

[2:44:00] >> Thank you, Mr. Walker, would it be okay

[2:44:03] if we had one of the staff members

[2:44:04] contact you about your concerns

[2:44:06] specifically with

[2:44:07] >> I would like to do something to try to

[2:44:08] help some of that without, you know, we

[2:44:10] try to be decent neighbors, but we don't

[2:44:12] want to complain about some of the

[2:44:14] issues, but we would like to try to help

[2:44:15] some of it. Thank you.

[2:44:16] >> Okay. Uh, Mr. By, would you that Thank

[2:44:19] you.

[2:44:21] >> All right. Katie is up and after Katie

[2:44:24] is I think it's John.

[2:44:28] [laughter] So, welcome

[2:44:35] So, my name is Katie and I just wanted

[2:44:37] to address the short-term um rental

[2:44:40] issue as well.

[2:44:41] >> What's your last name, Katie?

[2:44:42] >> It's Brooks.

[2:44:43] >> Brooks.

[2:44:43] >> Yep. Mhm. Um so, [sighs and gasps]

[2:44:52] I'm going to take a more personal take

[2:44:55] on it, and I hope you guys will forgive

[2:44:57] me.

[2:45:00] Two years ago, we had to evacuate our

[2:45:03] home um because we had a high velocity

[2:45:07] rainstorm that hit the back of our house

[2:45:10] and um it was mitigated improperly. So,

[2:45:15] it wasn't um the mitigation area, it

[2:45:19] wasn't sealed off properly, so it ended

[2:45:20] up spreading moler account throughout

[2:45:23] our whole entire home. I have asthma and

[2:45:26] um mass cell and my son does as well.

[2:45:32] After they had um

[2:45:35] uh taken all the levels, it was twice the level of what was considered

[2:45:40] high and we were asked to evacuate our

[2:45:43] homes.

[2:45:44] I on a very practical note, natural

[2:45:47] disasters happen to all of us, right? So

[2:45:49] what I'm asking you guys to do is just

[2:45:51] look at everything on a very practical

[2:45:53] note. We ended up moving 10 times in 7

[2:45:56] months as we kept waiting for the

[2:45:57] insurance company to

[2:46:00] um hopefully get involved.

[2:46:03] Having local Airbnbs

[2:46:06] provided um to keep the community we

[2:46:09] have three children. I had I had a they

[2:46:12] were 11, 12, and 13 at the time. And by

[2:46:15] having Airbnbs in the community, we were

[2:46:19] able to keep our kids at their local

[2:46:21] school. We didn't have to move up to

[2:46:23] Salt Lake while we were doing the

[2:46:25] mitigation and the rebuild. Everything's

[2:46:27] done now. Like literally, it's taken us

[2:46:29] 2 years. We just finished our kitchen

[2:46:31] this last week. But I just want you guys

[2:46:34] to take a closer look cuz I even my um

[2:46:38] son, he has a couple of friends where

[2:46:39] they also had to move for um several

[2:46:44] months out of their home too. And by

[2:46:47] getting rid of all the Airbnbs, you are

[2:46:49] taking away access to actually local or

[2:46:54] residents that need to be able to access

[2:46:57] the schools that need to be able to

[2:46:58] access the help. Um my son has mass cell

[2:47:02] like he in his 504 plan like he has to

[2:47:06] have um an air filter system in every

[2:47:09] single room because when he has a

[2:47:11] reaction it can last up to 72 hours. So

[2:47:14] basically what mass cell is is is you

[2:47:16] have um too much of a histamine response

[2:47:19] and your body has a hard time breaking

[2:47:20] it down. [gasps] Um so for us like we

[2:47:24] were definitely um more concerned. And

[2:47:28] then another thing is also I really love

[2:47:30] the diversity that the Airbnbs bring. I

[2:47:33] love seeing the Jewish um traditional

[2:47:35] Jewish people with their ringlets. I

[2:47:37] love that there are knitting company

[2:47:40] knitting communities that can come to

[2:47:42] these Airbnbs. And I also really

[2:47:44] appreciate

[2:47:46] um Airbnbs that also have ADA

[2:47:50] accommodations for those that need it.

[2:47:53] Okay. Thank you.

[2:47:54] >> Thank you. I'm sorry you went through

[2:47:56] all that and I'm glad I'm glad it's all

[2:47:59] that was quite the storm. We're we're still in the process, but I just

[2:48:03] wanted to let you guys know as an ORM

[2:48:05] resident, having Airbnbs is a very

[2:48:07] practical option.

[2:48:07] >> All right. Thank you.

[2:48:08] >> So, yeah.

[2:48:10] >> Right. Next up, is it is it John? Okay.

[2:48:13] And after after John is Caroli Wolfley,

[2:48:20] [snorts]

[2:48:25] that's my wife. And I I didn't know she

[2:48:27] was going to talk about that, but we are

[2:48:29] super grateful for her aunt who lives

[2:48:32] here and other family to let us live in

[2:48:33] their home, but we did have to use BNP's

[2:48:36] temporarily for our children, our family

[2:48:38] to keep us somewhat united during a

[2:48:41] tough time. Um, I'm not talking about

[2:48:43] that, but obviously I'm here to support

[2:48:46] a good neighbor of ours that does have a

[2:48:47] large Airbnb, and I strongly urge you to

[2:48:50] look at, you know, sizes of Airbnbs. You

[2:48:52] obviously don't want 100 people in 1,000

[2:48:54] square foot, but if somebody can

[2:48:56] accommodate it and it's not causing any

[2:48:57] problems that you take that into

[2:48:59] consideration while you're looking at

[2:49:00] this um process and uh our neighbors

[2:49:04] that do have an Airbnb, actually a

[2:49:06] couple of them, you know, they don't

[2:49:07] cause any problems and I don't see an

[2:49:09] issue. And I I would I would be here in

[2:49:12] the alternative of that. If I did see a

[2:49:14] lot of issues, I'd probably be here

[2:49:15] fighting for the opposite of that. Uh I

[2:49:17] haven't seen that in in my area where I

[2:49:19] live and I strongly urge you to take

[2:49:21] that in consideration. Um I live and

[2:49:24] where I live in ORM um on a different

[2:49:26] subject I'd love to just kind of bring

[2:49:27] up. I have no idea what's going to

[2:49:28] happen. Uh the canal that is no longer

[2:49:31] in use now. Uh I'd love to know what's

[2:49:33] going to be happening to that uh

[2:49:35] property since it runs through the

[2:49:36] backyard of my home along with a lot of

[2:49:38] other people's. Um, and uh, I know that

[2:49:42] mine is the canal in my backyard is dry

[2:49:45] and nothing's other than some maybe some

[2:49:47] debris, but I've noticed that now

[2:49:48] there's lots of weeds growing and other

[2:49:50] things, and I'd love to know what's

[2:49:51] going on with that, too. But I'm here to

[2:49:53] support and and and make our our family

[2:49:57] USA. Thank you.

[2:49:59] >> All right. Thank you. Um, I'll just

[2:50:01] quickly address the canal. The canal

[2:50:03] company has decided not to run water

[2:50:06] through it anymore. Yes.

[2:50:07] >> And the gentleman, Mr. again if you

[2:50:09] would like to speak with him or get give

[2:50:11] him your contact information. He has

[2:50:13] more information about a study that's

[2:50:15] going on right now to see what what

[2:50:17] options are available

[2:50:20] uh for that property. We don't own the

[2:50:22] property. It's right now the the canal

[2:50:25] company is remains the the ones in

[2:50:28] charge of it and so

[2:50:29] >> yeah and where I live from my

[2:50:31] understanding it it lines up with Provo

[2:50:33] and Orm. So you're dealing with two

[2:50:35] different cities.

[2:50:36] >> Okay. I don't know where you live. I

[2:50:38] live on Paliside Drive.

[2:50:39] >> So when it runs through the back side of

[2:50:40] Paliside Drive on on the maps.

[2:50:43] >> Oh, that might be the Provo Bench Canal.

[2:50:44] Is that the one that's down below?

[2:50:46] >> Yeah.

[2:50:46] >> Okay. Are we work are we doing a study

[2:50:49] on the Provo Bench Canal as well?

[2:50:51] >> Okay, then that's Yeah, you'd be the one

[2:50:53] to to talk to.

[2:50:54] >> Okay.

[2:50:55] >> All right.

[2:50:55] >> Thank you.

[2:50:56] All right. Caroli Wolfley and

[2:51:00] then um Judy Christensen after Miss

[2:51:03] Wolfley.

[2:51:06] I do not see. Is that you? I see someone

[2:51:10] waving. Oh, she's just waving. Oh, she's

[2:51:12] waving to you. Okay. Well, she's since she's not here,

[2:51:20] we'll go ahead and

[2:51:24] Oh, in the nick of time.

[2:51:28] All right, you're up.

[2:51:30] [laughter]

[2:51:31] You want to catch your breath? Would you

[2:51:32] like to have someone go go next and then

[2:51:34] you catch your breath for a second?

[2:51:36] Okay. Okay. Um Judy Christensen, if you

[2:51:40] um come up and then Carol after Miss

[2:51:43] Christensen. Um

[2:51:47] yes, I'm Judy Christensen. I moved here

[2:51:50] into ORM about 36 years ago. Um came

[2:51:53] down to Utah for school when I was 17. I

[2:51:56] really love it here. I love the people.

[2:51:58] I love the values. Um, I love the beauty

[2:52:03] and it's awesome and I'm really happy um

[2:52:09] to have uh cool things to do, you know,

[2:52:13] like next Tuesday have all of our um you

[2:52:18] know, this fun community activity like I

[2:52:21] agree with the first speaker about

[2:52:22] building bridges in the community. I

[2:52:24] happen to be part of a group um a

[2:52:26] volunteer group who believes that local

[2:52:29] governments should not use government

[2:52:31] resources, staff, facilities um um any

[2:52:36] of the local of our local things that we

[2:52:39] pay for here as a city for to carry out

[2:52:42] federal immigration enforcement

[2:52:45] or um yeah and I just am here to ask

[2:52:50] um to please I am hoping that we can

[2:52:54] pass a formal resolution prohibiting the

[2:52:56] use of municipal funds, staff time,

[2:53:00] facilities for federal immigration

[2:53:02] enforcement activities. I'm hoping that

[2:53:06] um

[2:53:07] we publicly can direct our local police

[2:53:10] departments in writing to cease

[2:53:13] collaboration with ICE in any form,

[2:53:15] including participation in joint

[2:53:17] operations, information sharing, and

[2:53:19] notifications. I have friends and family

[2:53:22] who um this directly affects and I want

[2:53:25] to feel safe in the community. I I value

[2:53:29] all people and I hope that we can join

[2:53:32] together in love in this community.

[2:53:36] Thank you.

[2:53:36] >> Right. Thank you. All right. And after

[2:53:40] Ms. Wolfley, we have Ethan Stoffer.

[2:53:45] Right. Welcome.

[2:53:46] >> Thank you and thanks for the the breath.

[2:53:49] Um, I've lived in or had my home in ORM

[2:53:53] for a zillion years and I love ORM. Um,

[2:53:58] I am concerned

[2:54:00] about the city um, having given

[2:54:05] short-term rental

[2:54:08] um, licenses and is trying to change

[2:54:11] that. I that that is a real concern to

[2:54:13] me. Um, we don't do that. You know, if

[2:54:17] you if you want to change the rules down

[2:54:18] the road, more power to you. But you

[2:54:23] grandfather in what you've already done.

[2:54:27] Um

[2:54:29] people make plans and and they make important decisions based on

[2:54:38] this and then for you guys to come and

[2:54:42] change it here, that's really not fair.

[2:54:45] Um, and I I I

[2:54:50] love Worm and I love our neighborhoods.

[2:54:54] I am

[2:54:57] um [clears throat]

[2:54:58] I have done every sort of thing from

[2:55:00] being um

[2:55:03] a married couple,

[2:55:06] having kids, raising them in our

[2:55:08] schools, doing the um [clears throat]

[2:55:12] now I'm a widow and life changes and and

[2:55:16] uh the having short-term rentals is a

[2:55:19] way to be able to afford expenses when

[2:55:24] life does change and I I cannot see

[2:55:29] any reason

[2:55:31] that we would want to change that. We

[2:55:34] know that there's always people

[2:55:37] um [clears throat] that

[2:55:40] wherever whatever situation there's

[2:55:43] always one bad apple, but that doesn't

[2:55:44] make all the rest.

[2:55:47] So, I would really hope that you would

[2:55:50] uh honor the commitments that ORM has

[2:55:53] already made to people and to um allow

[2:55:57] short-term rentals to

[2:56:00] be totally a good thing. I know my

[2:56:03] sister, she stayed in one when she was

[2:56:05] waiting for as a missionary. She had had

[2:56:09] to, you know, gotten everything sold in

[2:56:11] Idaho and came here and stayed in a

[2:56:13] short-term rental. It was wonderful. It

[2:56:16] helped her tremendously. She went on

[2:56:18] with her life. I've had lots of

[2:56:20] short-term people come and go. And it

[2:56:23] it's that bridge that helps people and

[2:56:26] sustains

[2:56:28] not only them, but us, too. So, thank

[2:56:31] you. Thank you. And I'm I'm sorry for

[2:56:34] your loss.

[2:56:36] I'm a fellow widow. So, yes.

[2:56:40] All right, Ethan.

[2:56:44] Um, you're up. Welcome.

[2:56:49] Hello, mayor and council people. Um, I

[2:56:52] spoke at the last meeting as well. For

[2:56:54] those of you who remember, I spoke about

[2:56:56] the flock cameras that have been placed

[2:56:58] up around the city. Um, I still have

[2:57:00] more concerns about that and I would

[2:57:02] like to share those as well as expound

[2:57:04] on an issue that I find disconnected and

[2:57:06] that I'm fortunate has already been

[2:57:07] spoken about with the issue of ICE and

[2:57:10] immigration enforcement. Um, so first to

[2:57:13] elaborate on Flock for those who do not

[2:57:16] remember or maybe weren't here, that is

[2:57:18] a private company that makes contracts

[2:57:20] with cities and police departments to

[2:57:22] put up these security surveillance

[2:57:24] cameras um around the city with no

[2:57:27] disclosure of where they are. Um, the

[2:57:30] only way we have to know where these

[2:57:32] cameras are placed is a crowdsourced

[2:57:34] campaign to find them.

[2:57:36] These cameras are AI powered to license

[2:57:39] to register any license plates or make,

[2:57:42] model, color, um, bumper stickers, even

[2:57:46] scratches on your car if you pass these

[2:57:48] cameras are registered in their AI

[2:57:50] database and become a searchable data

[2:57:52] point. To use this database, this

[2:57:55] private database, law enforcement does

[2:57:58] not require a warrant of any kind

[2:58:00] whatsoever. All it requires is a search

[2:58:03] reason, which for thousands of these

[2:58:05] searches has simply been the word test,

[2:58:08] which we know through independent

[2:58:09] reporting has been abused to follow

[2:58:12] people such as ex partners or simple

[2:58:14] personal interest searches. I find this

[2:58:16] to be an insane breach of civil privacy.

[2:58:20] Um, since anyone driving past these

[2:58:23] cameras are being logged into a

[2:58:25] database, they had no say in existing

[2:58:27] and have no way to remove themselves

[2:58:29] from for simply going about their life,

[2:58:31] going about the city. People have said,

[2:58:33] "If you have nothing to hide, you have

[2:58:35] nothing to worry about. But if I send

[2:58:37] someone in a package, I'm not putting it

[2:58:39] in a clear Tupperware." And it isn't

[2:58:40] because it's there's something criminal

[2:58:42] inside. It's because it's just for the

[2:58:43] recipient. It's a question of privacy.

[2:58:46] It's not a question of criminality.

[2:58:48] Um, the way that this intersects with

[2:58:51] ICE, however, is because ICE has been

[2:58:54] known to also use this database to track

[2:58:57] down some of their targets. There are

[2:59:00] records of over 4,000 nation and

[2:59:02] statewide lookups by city police

[2:59:04] departments on the behalf of ICE with

[2:59:07] reasons listed as immigration, ICE, ICE,

[2:59:11] and ERRO, which is the enforcement and

[2:59:12] removal operations. um illegal

[2:59:15] immigration, ICE warrant, you understand

[2:59:17] the you know the trend going on there. I

[2:59:20] would like to reiterate ICE themsself

[2:59:22] has no contract with Flock. They are

[2:59:25] asking police departments to do these

[2:59:27] searches for them and police departments

[2:59:29] are choosing to and complying to do

[2:59:31] these. There is no legal or any contract

[2:59:34] reason that they have to, but these

[2:59:37] police departments are choosing to

[2:59:38] assist them. I'm running low on time, so

[2:59:40] I'll speed up from now. Um 70.6% 6% of

[2:59:44] all ICE detainees have no criminal

[2:59:46] convictions whatsoever. This is people

[2:59:48] that are being held against their will

[2:59:50] with no convictions. And I do not think

[2:59:52] we should be assisting ICE and getting

[2:59:54] more of them. Additionally, I want to

[2:59:56] remember that this database is global

[2:59:59] and private. Even if our cops choose not

[3:00:01] to communicate with ICE and help them,

[3:00:03] they can go to a different city and

[3:00:05] since it's all the same database, the

[3:00:06] cops there can do the same and betray

[3:00:08] our or citizens. Thank you.

[3:00:10] >> Thank you.

[3:00:15] And that concludes our personal

[3:00:16] appearances.

[3:00:20] » Oh, yes. Um, Council Member Millet has a

[3:00:22] question.

[3:00:22] >> I just wanted to ask our attorney. Is

[3:00:24] Steve here? Oh, there you are. So,

[3:00:26] Steve, has the city of Oram issued

[3:00:28] short-term rental licenses?

[3:00:30] >> Uh, no. We've never had a short-term

[3:00:32] rental license that we've issued to

[3:00:34] anyone. We do have residential rental

[3:00:37] dwelling licenses that we issue to

[3:00:40] anybody who wants to uh rent their

[3:00:43] dwelling. Uh primarily that's going to

[3:00:45] be long-term uh rentals, but could

[3:00:48] encompass people have who have done

[3:00:50] short-term rentals as well, but we do

[3:00:52] not have any specific short-term

[3:00:54] dwelling uh rental license.

[3:00:59] All right, Miss Wolfley, would you do me

[3:01:01] if you would like some more information,

[3:01:03] have more discussion? you you did not

[3:01:04] have your contact information. If you

[3:01:06] want to leave your phone number with um Teresa's city recorder, we could

[3:01:11] um maybe have an opportunity to to

[3:01:15] elaborate further on that if that's if

[3:01:18] that's something you were interested in

[3:01:20] doing. Just go ahead and leave your your

[3:01:21] contact information. Thank you. Um all

[3:01:26] right, council. We have two consent

[3:01:28] items this evening. The first is the

[3:01:30] approval of the meeting minutes of July

[3:01:32] 14th, 2026.

[3:01:34] And the second item is an appointment to

[3:01:37] the events advisory commission. Brian,

[3:01:40] wait. Is Brian here this evening? All

[3:01:42] right. Well, well,

[3:01:45] we welcome you and and well, I guess I

[3:01:48] ought to wait till after we vote to

[3:01:50] welcome you.

[3:01:52] [laughter]

[3:01:53] Not not to get ahead of myself, but

[3:01:55] councel, I would entertain a motion to

[3:01:56] approve the consent items.

[3:01:59] >> So moved.

[3:02:00] >> I have a motion. Is there a second?

[3:02:02] >> Second.

[3:02:03] >> All right. A second. All right. We'll

[3:02:06] start with with you, Council Member

[3:02:07] Millet.

[3:02:08] >> I.

[3:02:08] >> And I vote I

[3:02:10] >> I.

[3:02:11] >> All right. Um, Council Member Mikum.

[3:02:14] >> I.

[3:02:15] >> Council member Milstein.

[3:02:17] >> I.

[3:02:18] >> Council member Kilpac.

[3:02:20] >> I.

[3:02:21] >> All right.

[3:02:22] I knew that was going to be the vote,

[3:02:24] but welcome. We're so glad to have you

[3:02:27] on our on our commission and being

[3:02:29] willing to serve our community. Thank

[3:02:31] you.

[3:02:33] Right. The next item on our agenda is a

[3:02:36] public hearing.

[3:02:38] It is an for an ordinance amending

[3:02:41] article 22-5-3A

[3:02:43] and the zoning map of the city of ORM by

[3:02:46] changing the zone of the property

[3:02:47] located generally at 1875 South Geneva

[3:02:50] Road from OS5 open space to PRD planned

[3:02:54] residential development and to amend the

[3:02:57] concept plan found in appendix KK,

[3:03:00] excuse me, site plan farm haven to

[3:03:03] include the subject property and amend

[3:03:05] the project layout. And so our presenter

[3:03:08] this evening is our planning director

[3:03:10] Jared Hall. And after Mr. Hall is has

[3:03:13] completed his presentation. Invite the

[3:03:15] applicants to come up if you would like

[3:03:16] to say anything else.

[3:03:21] » Thank you. Um that introduction of the

[3:03:24] item is quite a mouthful. I know. So

[3:03:27] yeah, it is it is this and the reason

[3:03:30] part part of the reason that it's so

[3:03:31] long is that this actual this request

[3:03:33] has two parts. Um it is both um a change

[3:03:36] of zoning to reszone the subject

[3:03:38] property that you see here. This 2.9

[3:03:41] acres that's currently in the OS5 zone.

[3:03:44] They um applicants would like to reszone

[3:03:46] this piece. And then the second part is

[3:03:48] to add it to this portion of property

[3:03:51] that's part of the PRD or our planned

[3:03:52] residential development and modify that

[3:03:55] um current concept plan that goes with

[3:03:57] that PRD to include this property um

[3:04:01] that's being reszoned or asked or being

[3:04:02] requested for reszone. So um this went

[3:04:06] to the planning commission for a public

[3:04:08] hearing uh back in March and April. The

[3:04:11] planning commission voted to recommend

[3:04:12] approval um with a condition that the

[3:04:14] new PRD would include a direct public

[3:04:16] rideaway connection to Geneva Road. Uh

[3:04:19] that's down here. The concept plan at

[3:04:21] the time did not have such a connection.

[3:04:23] When the com when the planning

[3:04:24] commission forwarded it, the city

[3:04:26] council heard it uh at a hearing in May.

[3:04:29] Uh and it again the the um the

[3:04:32] connection public rightway connection to

[3:04:34] Geneva Road was not present. Uh the

[3:04:36] council voted at the time to to continue

[3:04:39] the item forward to give the applicants

[3:04:41] a chance to look at a concept plan that

[3:04:43] would include that uh and come back if

[3:04:46] that were possible. Um the applicants

[3:04:48] have done that and come back with a

[3:04:49] concept plan that does include a

[3:04:52] connection to Geneva Road. Um so we'll

[3:04:54] review that tonight and talk about that.

[3:04:58] But I want to give just the background

[3:04:59] again because the public hearing is um

[3:05:02] part of the agenda and I wanted to make

[3:05:04] sure that this is all again in people's

[3:05:06] minds because it has been a little time.

[3:05:08] Uh as we stated, this is the the parcel

[3:05:10] that's being uh requested for reszone.

[3:05:12] This is in the OS5 zone. Uh the property

[3:05:15] to the east here is the Whiteststone

[3:05:17] Estate subdivision that was recently

[3:05:19] approved. This is Payton Crossing to the

[3:05:22] south. Uh, and this is the land in the

[3:05:24] PRD zone that would be um con that would

[3:05:28] be combined with this uh property if

[3:05:30] it's reszoned to form a new PRD uh

[3:05:33] called Westerly Way instead of Farm

[3:05:35] Haven.

[3:05:36] Um, this is in this is a section from

[3:05:38] the general plan, the land use map. Um,

[3:05:41] this property that's the subject

[3:05:42] property is in the lowdensity

[3:05:44] residential southwest category. Um, the

[3:05:47] change is in line with the general plans

[3:05:49] designation. There's no conflict there.

[3:05:52] uh the existing farm haven concept again

[3:05:55] that did have initially a connection to

[3:05:57] Geneva road that was part of the reason

[3:05:58] for the request on the planning

[3:05:59] commission's part in the council review

[3:06:02] uh the existing plan was for 25 smaller

[3:06:05] lots uh their cott called them cottage

[3:06:07] lots it was farm farm haven cottages uh

[3:06:10] 25 lots and this road internally

[3:06:13] circulating and then going out to Geneva

[3:06:15] um the concept that came through on May

[3:06:18] 12th uh that has been redesigned was

[3:06:20] this 44 town or sorry, 44 twin home lots

[3:06:25] without the connection to Geneva.

[3:06:27] The new redesign that does include a

[3:06:29] connection to Geneva Road. We're going

[3:06:31] to see how many times I have to say

[3:06:32] Geneva Road tonight. You can start

[3:06:34] counting now for those of you playing

[3:06:36] any kind of games with it. Um, this is a

[3:06:39] redesign of the twin home lots, although

[3:06:41] it's fairly similar. It contains that

[3:06:43] same circulation pattern inside. Uh, 40

[3:06:46] units. They did lose some some twin

[3:06:48] homes to make that connection happen.

[3:06:51] Um, but there's again some additional

[3:06:53] parking uh for um for guests uh and

[3:06:56] visitors. Uh there are twocar garages on

[3:06:59] all of these units and driveways for two

[3:07:01] cars. Um the parking standard for PRDS

[3:07:05] uh multifamily housing is 2.5 parking

[3:07:07] spaces per unit. This has about 2.7 if

[3:07:10] you count them all together. Uh not

[3:07:12] including the driveways. Those would be

[3:07:13] an addition. Uh but just the garages and

[3:07:15] these extra parking spaces. uh a sixoot

[3:07:18] perimeter fence is required uh for a

[3:07:21] project like this that would need to be

[3:07:22] part of the site planning and that

[3:07:24] brings me to a point um that I want to

[3:07:26] make now so I don't forget. Uh this is a request for a zone change and a

[3:07:31] concept plan that goes with that PRD. Um

[3:07:33] but those things are not approvals for

[3:07:35] building. uh it would still require

[3:07:37] what's being planned here in concept

[3:07:39] would still require planning commission

[3:07:41] approval of a site plan for the multif

[3:07:43] family nature because they are attached

[3:07:44] housing units and uh a subdivision to

[3:07:47] make these twin homes. So it'll still go

[3:07:48] through some iterations um with planning

[3:07:50] commission but those plans need to be

[3:07:52] based on uh this concept plan if that's

[3:07:55] approved as part of the zoning if that

[3:07:56] makes sense. Just want to make sure

[3:07:58] that's in everybody's heads as we go

[3:08:00] through this. Uh the roads are all

[3:08:02] public rightway. So these are all um

[3:08:03] oram what we call sublo streets that's

[3:08:06] the design buffered sidewalk curbon

[3:08:09] gutter park strip um and then this road

[3:08:12] out to Geneva to provide better

[3:08:13] circulation that does a lot of good

[3:08:15] things in terms of traffic uh it allows

[3:08:18] an access to a westerly road for two

[3:08:20] different subdivisions besides the one

[3:08:21] at hand tonight. Um their only access

[3:08:24] from this subdivision out the other

[3:08:26] direction would be out along 850 west to

[3:08:28] 2000 south. Again, the uh subdivision to

[3:08:32] the east here is Whit Stone Estates was

[3:08:34] recently approved. There's a stubbed

[3:08:35] connection to Whiteststone Estates, and

[3:08:37] this initial 850 West connection has

[3:08:39] always been part of the plan. Uh that

[3:08:41] would continue to be part of the plan,

[3:08:43] providing good access for all the lots

[3:08:44] that are proposed.

[3:08:47] Uh these are the elevations. Again, I

[3:08:49] think it was it was mentioned before

[3:08:51] this back side under PRD rules, this

[3:08:53] needs to have 40% um stone like the

[3:08:56] front sides. Uh that'll need to be added

[3:08:58] when the site plan goes through. We'll

[3:09:00] ensure that happens. These are twin

[3:09:01] homes. They're three-bedroom, three bath

[3:09:03] units, single stories with basements.

[3:09:05] Um, they do meet the height requirements

[3:09:06] of the PRD as well. And that is my

[3:09:10] presentation. If you have any questions

[3:09:12] for me tonight.

[3:09:13] >> All right. Thank you, council. Any

[3:09:14] questions for u Mr. Hall?

[3:09:19] » Council member Gail. Um, can you please

[3:09:23] explain to us again, and I know that

[3:09:24] we've been through this before, but

[3:09:25] maybe for newer members of the public

[3:09:26] that haven't seen this, um, what the

[3:09:28] connection between the current PRD uh,

[3:09:30] zone and the Autism Academy is how this

[3:09:33] new area relates to both of those.

[3:09:34] >> Great. That's a that's a great question.

[3:09:36] Let me go back up to the site plan here.

[3:09:38] This property is owned by the Autism

[3:09:40] Academy, uh, the folks that own own and

[3:09:42] operate the Autism Academy, and they are

[3:09:44] the applicants in this case. They work

[3:09:46] for Farm Haven as well. uh they they

[3:09:49] maintain ownership of it. They would

[3:09:50] like to subdivide this to provide some

[3:09:52] housing for folks uh that are

[3:09:54] participating in in programs of the

[3:09:55] autism academy as part of that. Um it

[3:09:58] wouldn't be exclusive to those folks as

[3:10:00] I understand it, but it would provide

[3:10:01] some it's been designed with those folks

[3:10:03] in mind. Uh and the connection to the

[3:10:05] autism academy is really through um some

[3:10:08] access to this road that'll come out,

[3:10:10] but there's no direct connections from

[3:10:12] the PRD to the functioning of the autism

[3:10:14] academy. They don't depend on each other

[3:10:15] for parking or for drainage. They do

[3:10:17] benefit from from those connections, but

[3:10:19] they don't depend wholly on each other

[3:10:21] for those things. Does that answer your

[3:10:23] question? Thank you.

[3:10:24] >> All right, council. Any other questions?

[3:10:28] >> Mayor, could I ask you a question?

[3:10:30] >> Oh, okay. Go ahead, Council Member Mikum

[3:10:32] and then Council Member Millet.

[3:10:34] >> Okay. U J Jared, I'm just wondering if

[3:10:37] you could tell us anything more about

[3:10:39] the the connection to Geneva Road. Um,

[3:10:42] is it a two-way connection? Um uh just

[3:10:46] wondering how traffic might flow onto

[3:10:48] Genev Geneva Road in that particular

[3:10:50] space if people are going to be turning

[3:10:51] from

[3:10:52] >> Yeah.

[3:10:53] >> Geneva Road left onto that that road or

[3:10:55] anything else you can tell us about that

[3:10:57] connection.

[3:10:57] >> That's that's a good question. My

[3:10:59] understanding is this is a full

[3:11:00] connection. So it would be full full

[3:11:02] turn movements. Uh UD do has approved UD

[3:11:04] do has reviewed and approved that. I'm

[3:11:06] glad you asked because I should have

[3:11:07] mentioned that as part of the review.

[3:11:08] This did go to UD dot. took a while to

[3:11:10] get back to us all because it had to get

[3:11:12] UD do approval because right now this is

[3:11:13] a state road. This would be full turn

[3:11:15] movements. It's a good access um for all

[3:11:17] these folks to get out that direction

[3:11:19] should they need to. Um yeah, anything

[3:11:22] else there?

[3:11:26] » That's very helpful. Thank you.

[3:11:28] >> Thank you.

[3:11:28] >> Um yeah, just and that was one of my

[3:11:30] questions if we'd heard back from you

[3:11:32] dot on that. So glad to hear that that's

[3:11:34] working out

[3:11:35] >> for him. Um and then the other two

[3:11:38] connections to the east.

[3:11:40] >> Yes.

[3:11:40] >> Those are just tying right into the

[3:11:43] other development, the whitest stone

[3:11:44] >> into existing

[3:11:45] >> subdivision. What's the status of

[3:11:47] whitest stone right now?

[3:11:49] >> Any permits or

[3:11:50] >> they have not pulled permits yet?

[3:11:52] >> There are two phases of the subdivision

[3:11:54] are are in recording right now.

[3:11:56] >> Okay. So, do they have do what does that

[3:11:58] mean? Do they have infrastructure in

[3:11:59] yet?

[3:12:00] >> Uh I don't believe the infrastructure is

[3:12:01] in yet, but it will be soon. I think

[3:12:03] it's underway. Okay. Um, and the

[3:12:04] recording is probably not far off for

[3:12:06] >> Whit. So, they're they're moving

[3:12:08] forward. So, this should all probably go

[3:12:10] pretty close, pretty together.

[3:12:12] >> There's not really a delay on the Whit

[3:12:14] project. It's moving forward currently.

[3:12:15] It just takes a while to get everything

[3:12:16] done. They're they're reporting and

[3:12:18] building.

[3:12:19] >> All right. Thank you. Um, the applicants

[3:12:21] here this evening invite you to come up

[3:12:23] and introduce yourself. And if you'd

[3:12:26] like to add any additional information,

[3:12:27] you're welcome to do so.

[3:12:31] » Um, thank you. And first if I can

[3:12:34] clarify a couple of things. Uh there is

[3:12:36] only one access to the east into Whit

[3:12:39] Stone. One of those is a dead end. So

[3:12:41] there's just one going east. Also um the

[3:12:44] intention is not to sell these homes to

[3:12:48] those who are participating in the

[3:12:50] clinic. Um this is open to the public.

[3:12:53] Uh there isn't a requirement that they

[3:12:55] have access to our facilities there. Um

[3:12:58] it would be great if if they do, but uh

[3:13:03] we already have a massive waiting list

[3:13:05] for people trying to get in. And so to

[3:13:07] qualify

[3:13:09] to have a home there to already be in uh

[3:13:13] as a client at the academy is not

[3:13:16] likely.

[3:13:18] >> Thank you. I appreciate those those

[3:13:19] clarifications. Council, any other

[3:13:22] questions uh for the applicant?

[3:13:29] Right. Hearing none, I'll go ahead and

[3:13:30] This is a public hearing. So, if you've

[3:13:32] come here this evening to speak to this

[3:13:35] uh this item on the agenda, you're

[3:13:37] welcome to come up now. I ask you to uh

[3:13:40] state your name and limit your comments

[3:13:42] to three minutes.

[3:13:47] Hello. Hi, Pamela May. I'm on 800 North.

[3:13:51] So, just right there with on the main

[3:13:55] streets. Um just I needed a

[3:13:57] understanding clarification was

[3:14:00] originally it was going to be for

[3:14:02] autistic is going to be built as an

[3:14:05] autistic community and I'm understanding

[3:14:08] now that it's not going to be an

[3:14:10] autistic community. Just clarification

[3:14:12] not an argument just an understanding.

[3:14:14] >> Okay. All right. Go say go ahead and

[3:14:16] >> Thank you. I I probably should have

[3:14:18] clarified a little bit. Uh, this is

[3:14:20] designed as an autism friendly

[3:14:22] neighborhood, which means it will be

[3:14:25] focused on autism. Um, but you don't

[3:14:28] have to have a diagnosis to live there.

[3:14:31] Um, but just an affinity for those who have uh a diagnosis or or maybe feel

[3:14:37] like they they have those tend uh

[3:14:39] tendencies. Um, but the idea is that

[3:14:42] with what we've created with the clinic

[3:14:45] and the uh community center and now with

[3:14:48] the neighborhood is we're going to

[3:14:50] demonstrate that um all individuals on

[3:14:54] the spectrum are welcome in

[3:14:57] neurodeiverse communities, that they

[3:14:59] have something to share, that they can

[3:15:01] have pride in where they live. they're

[3:15:03] not relinquished to

[3:15:06] um

[3:15:10] group homes, things like that, which now

[3:15:13] are being investigated and and rules are

[3:15:16] changing there. Trisha can tell you more

[3:15:18] about that, but it is definitely an

[3:15:20] autism focused community, but you don't

[3:15:25] need to have a diagnosis.

[3:15:26] >> Right. Thank you. And ma'am, what was

[3:15:28] your name? We just need that for for our

[3:15:30] minutes.

[3:15:32] [panting]

[3:15:32] >> Pamela Moose.

[3:15:34] >> Okay.

[3:15:34] >> And so that means so would the the

[3:15:37] buildings the homes be sold solely to

[3:15:40] people that have autistic tendency or

[3:15:43] are they really open to the public with

[3:15:45] the fair housing laws?

[3:15:46] >> Yes. Open to the public.

[3:15:48] >> Open to the public. Okay. Thank you.

[3:15:51] >> Right. Thank you. Is there anyone else

[3:15:52] who would like to speak to this tonight?

[3:15:58] All right. If you can just state your

[3:16:00] name.

[3:16:00] >> Keith Walker. Again, thank you. I

[3:16:02] happened to sit in this meeting with him

[3:16:05] in the planning commission. I don't know

[3:16:06] a year and a half, two years ago when he

[3:16:08] presented this and the planning

[3:16:10] commission denied him and I was appalled

[3:16:12] at the planning commission for doing

[3:16:14] what they did. The support he had for

[3:16:16] the autism and the community to try to

[3:16:18] build there people that want to buy

[3:16:20] these houses for their kids to support

[3:16:23] the autism thing, I thought was a great

[3:16:25] thing. when I sat and listened to the

[3:16:26] whole structure that I didn't know

[3:16:28] anything about. And so I'm glad when

[3:16:30] that it's back to before the council,

[3:16:33] the the community was fighting him

[3:16:34] because he was trying to put a road

[3:16:35] through and they were all worried about

[3:16:37] the traffic and it just was absurd cuz

[3:16:39] those developments now are being

[3:16:41] developed and the roads are going

[3:16:42] through and he got denied a year and a

[3:16:45] half to two years ago. And I'm glad to

[3:16:47] see this happen and I'm grateful for to

[3:16:49] see I hope what I've witnessed here

[3:16:51] tonight come to

[3:16:54] fruition of what I witnessed a couple

[3:16:56] years ago that I was appalled at what

[3:16:58] happened. So I'm grateful for that for

[3:16:59] the for the applicant. Thank you.

[3:17:02] >> All right. Thank you. Anybody else who

[3:17:04] would like to speak to this?

[3:17:11] » Okay. Welcome. And go ahead and state

[3:17:12] your name.

[3:17:16] Good evening. This is Marian Baxter and

[3:17:18] I live in Southwest Orm. And I will tell

[3:17:21] you in Wildwood Hollow where we raised

[3:17:24] our family for over 36 years,

[3:17:28] the healthiest combination within that

[3:17:31] neighborhood was that it always from the

[3:17:34] time in the 70s when it was first built

[3:17:37] to today has been a mix of every age and

[3:17:42] stage of life. And I was not aware of

[3:17:46] this community until tonight and this

[3:17:49] development request. But I will tell

[3:17:51] you, the more that we integrate, ORM has

[3:17:55] always had a reputation of being a

[3:17:58] patchwork quilt of high-end homes to

[3:18:02] every stage and size because people love

[3:18:06] their neighborhoods. And there is a way

[3:18:08] to make a difference in communities by

[3:18:12] involving a healthy mix. And from what

[3:18:16] I've heard briefly this evening in the

[3:18:19] work meeting before and thank you for

[3:18:23] having those online

[3:18:25] um I literally appreciate how much ORM

[3:18:29] has the ability to welcome all and

[3:18:33] create safe and productive

[3:18:34] neighborhoods. So, thank you for your

[3:18:37] attention. All right. Thank you.

[3:18:40] Anyone else who'd like to speak to this evening?

[3:18:45] All right. I'll go ahead and close the

[3:18:47] public hearing and bring this back to

[3:18:48] the city council council. As you'll

[3:18:50] recall, this came to us in May and we

[3:18:55] had a discussion about it then and asked

[3:18:58] the applicant if they would like to come

[3:19:00] back with a road uh that would connect

[3:19:03] to Geneva Road and and at that point we

[3:19:07] encouraged them to do so. And so they've

[3:19:10] done that. And so I would open this up

[3:19:14] for discussion or

[3:19:16] on this as we're reviewing this again.

[3:19:22] >> Yeah, go ahead.

[3:19:25] >> Thank you, mayor. I just I just want to

[3:19:26] say uh how grateful I am to the

[3:19:29] applicant. Um I remember that meeting

[3:19:31] very well. It was very emotional

[3:19:32] meeting. Uh not in a bad way, but in a

[3:19:36] very good way. And uh I just want to say

[3:19:40] thank you uh first of all for the

[3:19:42] amazing work that you do. Um I think

[3:19:45] it's important. I think it's

[3:19:47] compassionate. I think it's

[3:19:49] life-changing

[3:19:51] uh for all involved. And so I want to

[3:19:54] say thank you for that. Secondly, I want

[3:19:57] to say thank you for reworking your

[3:19:59] plan, for listening to the neighbors,

[3:20:01] the concerns that came up and coming up

[3:20:03] with what I think is a beautiful a beautiful plan moving

[3:20:07] forward. So, thank you for for being

[3:20:11] here again and again, thank you for

[3:20:13] listening and and for the great things

[3:20:14] that you're doing.

[3:20:15] >> Right. Thank you, Council Member Millet

[3:20:18] and then Council Member Gail.

[3:20:20] >> Yeah, I just want to echo that. You

[3:20:22] know, I've been here for this process

[3:20:24] and it's been arduous and I appreciate

[3:20:26] your patience. Our planning process is

[3:20:28] sometimes very difficult. We do have to

[3:20:30] listen to everyone and we do have to

[3:20:32] provide access for everyone and just so

[3:20:35] grateful for this exit onto Geneva. I

[3:20:38] think we have a win-win here with both

[3:20:40] neighborhoods on that. And I just want

[3:20:42] to say thank you for the invitation to

[3:20:44] your grand opening. That was so amazing.

[3:20:47] I have um um a nephew with autism. I

[3:20:52] have neighbors across the street. Four

[3:20:53] of their five kids have autism, you

[3:20:55] know, and I it was so and I saw them at

[3:20:59] the your grand opening, my neighbors. It

[3:21:01] was so incredible to see the work that

[3:21:03] you do and to see from when I'm thinking

[3:21:06] four years ago is when the first time I

[3:21:07] met you three or four years ago and um

[3:21:10] just to see how your dream is coming

[3:21:13] together. I appreciate that and just

[3:21:15] thank you for the service that you offer

[3:21:17] and for the patience with our process.

[3:21:19] Thank you so much.

[3:21:22] I just want to say I was so happy to see

[3:21:24] you on the agenda when I opened my email

[3:21:26] and said there they are. They've done

[3:21:27] it. They put the road through. So I'm

[3:21:28] happy that you were able to do it. Thank

[3:21:29] you for the work you do and I just echo

[3:21:31] everything that council members Millet

[3:21:32] and Lamson have said. So happy to see

[3:21:34] you here.

[3:21:35] >> All right. Thank you. Anybody virtually

[3:21:38] would like would you like to have any

[3:21:39] comment?

[3:21:43] » This is Quinn. Ju just

[3:21:45] >> Okay. Um go ahead Quinn.

[3:21:46] >> Yeah. Thank you so much for your

[3:21:48] flexibility on this. Um I'm also delighted. Thank you.

[3:21:56] » All right. Yes. I'm I was so I in fact I

[3:22:01] asked I can't remember who I asked. I

[3:22:03] said when when is it on the agenda?

[3:22:05] When's it coming back? And because I

[3:22:07] can't wait to vote yes on this. And I

[3:22:09] think it's a a wonderful project for our

[3:22:12] community. And I want to thank you too

[3:22:16] as well for the work you do. We we've

[3:22:19] talked and thank you. That's all I'll

[3:22:22] say. Thank you for what you what you do.

[3:22:25] Um council.

[3:22:28] All right.

[3:22:30] >> A motion. Do you want me to do a motion?

[3:22:32] >> Yes, I would love for you to do a

[3:22:33] motion. I move to approve amending

[3:22:35] article 2253A

[3:22:37] and the zoning map of the city of Warren

[3:22:39] by changing the zone of the properties

[3:22:41] located generally at 1875 South Geneva

[3:22:44] Road from OS5 open space to PRD planned

[3:22:49] residential development and to amend

[3:22:52] appendix KK site plan farm haven to

[3:22:55] include the subject property and amend

[3:22:58] the project layout.

[3:22:59] >> Thank you. We have a motion. Is there a

[3:23:01] second?

[3:23:02] >> I second. Right. Thank you, Council

[3:23:04] Member Gail. We have a motion in a

[3:23:05] second. Is there any discussion? Any

[3:23:07] more discussion? [gasps] All right. I'm

[3:23:08] going to go ahead and vote I. Council

[3:23:10] member Lamson.

[3:23:11] >> I.

[3:23:13] >> Council member Kilpac.

[3:23:16] >> I.

[3:23:17] >> Council member Muellstein.

[3:23:19] >> I.

[3:23:20] >> Council [snorts] member Mikum.

[3:23:22] >> I.

[3:23:23] >> Right. Thank you. Motion passes

[3:23:25] unanimously.

[3:23:27] Thank you.

[3:23:29] All right. We now have our city manager

[3:23:32] information items. We'll turn the time

[3:23:34] over to our city manager, um, Bren

[3:23:36] Bbeby.

[3:23:38] >> Many of you were at the Aloha Fest this

[3:23:41] last weekend. We already have the

[3:23:43] participation

[3:23:44] uh, uh, estimates and the attendance of

[3:23:48] the Aloha Fest rivaled Lights On and

[3:23:52] Taste of Orum. So, two of our bigger

[3:23:55] events. So, pretty exciting. So, we

[3:23:56] continue to be a magnet for for great uh

[3:23:59] community events and we have

[3:24:02] >> I have to give an award to the mayor

[3:24:04] because she sat in a chair in the sun

[3:24:08] for the first 30 minutes or so, right?

[3:24:10] They you I was sitting there thinking,

[3:24:13] move her in the shade, please.

[3:24:15] [laughter] But it was fabulous and your your comments were so wonderful

[3:24:19] there. So, thank you.

[3:24:20] >> Well, thank you. It was it was a lot of

[3:24:22] fun. And yes, if you I hope that that

[3:24:26] they we can continue to be their hosts.

[3:24:29] So,

[3:24:30] >> and if I could add something, we were

[3:24:31] there uh in the evening and that park

[3:24:35] was packed

[3:24:37] and it was so fun and we were astounded

[3:24:41] to see Ian Tongi perform. He was not

[3:24:45] anywhere in any of the material that we

[3:24:47] had seen, but uh we had a an American

[3:24:50] Idol winner here in Ormfest or not

[3:24:53] Ormfest in Orm City Park for Aloha Fest.

[3:24:56] And that place was bumping. I mean, it

[3:24:58] was so much fun. And uh anyway, thank

[3:25:03] you to whoever made that happen because

[3:25:05] it was awesome.

[3:25:07] >> Yeah, it was um I can't remember saying

[3:25:09] his last name and his family, but the

[3:25:11] his foundation that

[3:25:14] We're glad it was a huge success and

[3:25:15] we'll, you know, continue to to help it

[3:25:18] moving forward. And speaking of being

[3:25:21] out in the sun, we will have a tent for

[3:25:23] you all at the World Folk Fest. That is

[3:25:26] tomorrow. 5:45 p.m. is when it starts.

[3:25:30] Your tent will be right next to the the

[3:25:32] outdoor stage there. And just be aware

[3:25:35] the nine uh countries that are having

[3:25:38] representatives come. They want to take

[3:25:40] photos with y'all and they have a you

[3:25:42] know small gift to to share. So

[3:25:46] >> that and that's tomorrow night council

[3:25:48] starting at 5

[3:25:49] >> 5:45 All right. Thank you. Anything

[3:25:54] else?

[3:25:55] All done. Okay. Council, we have one

[3:25:58] more item and that is to adjourn to a

[3:26:00] closed session in the summit concert uh

[3:26:03] conference concert summit concert room.

[3:26:05] We're going to have a a karaoke night.

[3:26:08] Adjourn to a close session in the summit

[3:26:10] conference room to discuss pending or

[3:26:12] reasonably imminent litigation, the

[3:26:14] character or professional competence of

[3:26:15] an individual or the purchase of or

[3:26:17] lease of real property.

[3:26:18] >> So moved.

[3:26:19] >> Thank you. Have a motion, a second.

[3:26:22] >> Second.

[3:26:22] >> All right. Thank you. A motion and a

[3:26:24] second. Um, go ahead, Council Member

[3:26:26] Lamson. How do you vote?

[3:26:27] >> I Council Member Milstein,

[3:26:32] >> I.

[3:26:33] >> Council member Mikum,

[3:26:37] » Council Member Kilpac,

[3:26:39] >> I.

[3:26:40] >> All right. Thank you. We're going to go

[3:26:41] ahead and adjourn to a closed door

[3:26:43] session.

Orem City Council Meeting | 7.28.2026

Transcript