[0:00] Troop 1776. So invite you to come up.

[0:03] Tristan,

[0:08] » please prepare in the manner you are

[0:10] custom.

[0:15] » Heavenly Father, thank

[0:20] you for the rain uh which we have so

[0:22] dearly needed.

[0:25] Thank you for our uh city council

[0:28] members uh and mayor that they can help

[0:32] govern the city and be willing to do

[0:36] that. Thank you for our police officers,

[0:40] firemen, and first responders

[0:44] that

[0:46] help serve this city so well and keep us

[0:48] safe and protected [sighs]

[0:50] and help us when we're in trouble.

[0:52] Please press that throughout this

[0:54] meeting uh

[0:57] that the city council members and the

[1:00] people speaking shall

[1:03] be guided and

[1:06] that a proper decision shall be made

[1:09] [clears throat]

[1:10] in any problem to come up

[1:15] that

[1:17] the Lord be with us in this meeting in

[1:20] the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

[1:22] >> Amen.

[1:33] Will the audience please rise?

[1:37] Place your hand over your heart and

[1:39] repeat the pledge with me.

[1:42] >> I aliance

[1:44] of the United States of America and to

[1:47] the republic for which it stands.

[1:57] Thank you.

[2:03] » Thank you Tristan and Truan for

[2:07] invitation and for leading us in the

[2:09] pledge of allegiance. We really really

[2:11] appreciate it. Also I think that your

[2:13] scout troop member is pretty cool. So

[2:16] yeah, good a good one. All right. Well,

[2:21] this council meeting has one item on the

[2:24] agenda and it is a public hearing and

[2:27] ordinance and public hearing. Adopting

[2:30] an increase to the property tax rate,

[2:32] approving and adopting a final budget

[2:34] for fiscal year 2026,

[2:37] 2027, including living a property tax

[2:40] sufficient to increase ongoing property

[2:43] tax revenues by $450,000

[2:46] a year. adopting the dedication of the

[2:49] general operations portion of the city

[2:52] of Orms property tax levy to the special

[2:55] safety, excuse me, public safety special

[2:58] revenue fund, adopting compensation

[3:00] programs, adopting the fees and charges

[3:04] schedule, adopting the franchise tax,

[3:07] municipal energy sales and use tax,

[3:10] telecommunications license tax,

[3:14] transient room tax, and E911 rates.

[3:17] So before I turn the time over to um

[3:21] Brandon Nelson, our our chief financial

[3:24] officer, just want to talk to you about

[3:26] how things are going to go tonight as

[3:28] far as this order and process.

[3:31] Um

[3:32] we've never this there's part of this we

[3:35] has never been done before. The state

[3:36] law specifies how how to have these

[3:40] public hearings. These whether it's

[3:41] called a truth and taxation hearing.

[3:43] Typically when we have public hearings

[3:46] we people are we take public comment

[3:49] from those who are actually physically

[3:50] present in the room. However,

[3:54] tonight we need to be taking public

[3:56] comment from those who are not here. So

[4:00] we're here virtually. Pete um or Mr.

[4:02] Wolfley. How many do we have? One. Okay.

[4:05] So, what we're what we're going to do is

[4:08] each person who would like to like to

[4:12] speak, we have some seats up here.

[4:14] They're all taken right now that have

[4:16] the reserve signs. And then so what I'd

[4:19] like to if we could have we'll go ahead

[4:21] start with you, sir, in in just a couple

[4:23] m in just a couple minutes. And you'll

[4:25] have three minutes to to speak. And on

[4:30] the on the little podium thing, there's

[4:32] a thing that just asks you uh the rec

[4:34] quarter has asked that you state your

[4:36] name and whether or not you're an Orm

[4:37] resident. [gasps]

[4:38] And you have the three minutes. And then

[4:41] we'll take three people, the first three

[4:44] here. And then we'll go ahead and have

[4:47] three people from

[4:49] participating online.

[4:52] And then we'll go back and do three more

[4:54] just just to kind of keep it even as far

[4:58] as just re recognizing that we have

[5:00] people in the room as well as well in

[5:03] the on the computer. So just as a

[5:09] reminder for those of you who might be

[5:11] online,

[5:13] uh the Zoom link is for those of you who

[5:15] would like to make a public comment.

[5:18] uh Pete Wolfley will call on you if

[5:22] you're in the Zoom link and and so of

[5:25] course if you don't want to make a

[5:26] comment you can say I don't have a

[5:28] comment but if you want to watch what's

[5:30] going on and not make a comment I would

[5:33] recommend that you go to the city of ORM

[5:35] YouTube channel and you can watch this

[5:37] meeting as well. Um I'm just going

[5:39] through my list of things to say. Just

[5:42] want to remind everyone that please be respectful. We we are all here

[5:50] for the same reason. We love our

[5:51] community. We want what's best for our

[5:54] community. There are connections that we

[5:55] have here. We may not always agree, but

[5:58] we're here for the same purpose that we

[6:01] care about ORM. And I hope that this

[6:03] evening that we can treat each other

[6:06] with respect and with dignity as we go

[6:10] through and and make hear from you and

[6:14] discuss and then u make a decision. So

[6:17] this is the order that we will have.

[6:21] First off, we'll have uh Mr. Nelson give

[6:23] a presentation and then council will

[6:26] have the opportunity to ask Mr. Nelson,

[6:29] any questions, comments, anything like

[6:31] that? And when he's finished, Jennica

[6:33] Jones from our staff will come up and do

[6:36] her presentation and we will as a

[6:39] council have the opportunity to ask

[6:42] questions and make comments. And after

[6:45] Ms. Jones is done, we'll have Chief

[6:47] Robinson um from our our police chief

[6:49] come up and give a presentation. And

[6:51] then we will have that opportunity to

[6:53] ask him questions as well. And after

[6:56] that's done,

[6:58] we will have we make sure that we have

[7:01] asked all our questions that we want,

[7:03] we'll go I'll go ahead and I will open

[7:05] the public hearing. And so as we do

[7:09] that, for the sake of just the flow of

[7:11] the meeting, what we're going to do is

[7:14] you make your comments. I've got a whole

[7:15] stack of paper. I see our council

[7:17] members have notepads. We have our

[7:19] staff. We're going to make a note of

[7:21] what you're asking and what a comment

[7:22] is, but we're not going to answer them

[7:24] right right then. So, what we'll do is

[7:27] we'll gather them all up and then have

[7:30] the public hearing and then close the

[7:33] public hearing and then go ahead and

[7:36] answer the questions that that you may

[7:38] have that you presented or comments and

[7:41] respond and respond to those. And then

[7:44] after that we'll go ahead and the city

[7:47] council will have some more discussion

[7:50] and then we will have a vote. So that

[7:53] council are you okay with that flow on

[7:56] that? Okay. [gasps]

[7:59] Again I just want to emphasize those of

[8:01] you who are online you're going if

[8:02] you're on the zoom link you're going to

[8:04] be asked to given the opportunity to

[8:06] speak. So if you're an introvert like me

[8:08] which I really am an introvert um but

[8:11] want to go to the YouTube channel. So

[8:14] again, 3 minutes and but first we're

[8:19] going to have the presentation

[8:21] by uh Mr. Brandon Nelson. Thank you.

[8:26] Mayor.

[8:29] As mentioned, uh we're here tonight to

[8:32] uh discuss the proposed increase in uh

[8:35] our property tax revenues for the city

[8:37] of War uh uh 200 to 450 thou increasing

[8:41] them by 450,000. um by increasing the

[8:44] tax rate levy. So what what I was going

[8:47] to do um is go through the process um by

[8:51] which how we got to this point.

[8:55] So first thing is just a a brief budget

[8:58] calendar uh beginning in January with

[9:01] the council retreat uh various discuss

[9:04] work session discussions on various

[9:05] components of the budget throughout

[9:07] April and May. Um leading to the May

[9:11] 12th tenative budget presentation uh to

[9:13] the council from staff. Um after that

[9:16] date uh we had a public hearing in June

[9:20] and and uh to discuss that tenative

[9:22] budget and at that time whether to in

[9:25] essence move forward with the truth and

[9:27] taxation by uh moving forward with that

[9:29] tax increase proposal and at that time

[9:33] then an interim budget was adopted uh

[9:36] beginning uh July 1st uh through today.

[9:40] Then uh we are here today on this August

[9:43] 20 uh 27th

[9:48] Just to touch on each of those items,

[9:49] during the April 14th work session, uh

[9:52] revenue and compensation were discussed.

[9:54] Uh during the revenue portion of that

[9:56] particular uh work session, uh that's

[9:59] when the first time we um discussed the

[10:02] uh proposed property tax increase and

[10:05] outlined some information related to

[10:07] that. And then as mentioned on May 12th,

[10:10] uh the tenative budget was presented. as

[10:13] part of that presentation. And before

[10:15] that, um, lost something.

[10:32] There we go. Um there were several

[10:35] things um the mayor mentioned uh new

[10:38] state law that around the tenative

[10:40] budget and truth and taxation. Uh so

[10:43] during that meeting I specifically had

[10:45] an agenda item where I specifically

[10:47] stated that there was a pro a proposed

[10:49] property tax increase included in that

[10:51] tenative budget as well as u presenting

[10:54] on a second agenda item a uh property

[10:57] tax impact schedule which outlined the

[11:00] various uh items mentioned uh there. on

[11:03] May 13th, that propo property tax impact

[11:06] schedule was placed on the city's

[11:08] website um so that uh people could see

[11:12] that on June 9th. Then we had that

[11:15] council meeting regarding the tenative

[11:17] budget and whether uh to proceed with

[11:20] the proposed property tax increase. Um

[11:23] and if so, then it was adopt and it was adopted as an interim budget

[11:29] during that period during that council

[11:31] meeting. I also um had to stand up as a

[11:35] separate agenda item and indicate that

[11:36] there was a uh property tax increase in

[11:39] that uh tenative budget and again stated

[11:42] the various items on there and during

[11:45] that meeting uh this meeting date was

[11:48] set as the public hearing meeting date

[11:55] in on July 10th.

[11:58] Um the website and public hearing

[12:00] instructions were created. We had a a

[12:02] TNT uh page on the city's website that

[12:05] was created uh with various information

[12:08] related to the property tax increase. We

[12:10] also built and included on there a

[12:13] property tax estimator calculator in

[12:15] there for residents and whoever was

[12:17] interested to be able to try to

[12:19] calculate what their particular home

[12:21] value um would equate to in relation to

[12:24] that property tax increase. Um and then

[12:28] also the uh public hearing instructions

[12:30] for as the mayor mentioned anyone

[12:32] wishing to um participate virtually.

[12:35] Those instructions were uh put on that

[12:38] main website uh so that they were there

[12:41] and ready for when this day occurred. On

[12:44] July 18th and 25th, uh Utah County then

[12:48] posted a combined notice of proposed tax

[12:51] increase that looks like this. uh

[12:54] anybody in the county who was proposing

[12:57] a tax increase was included on this

[12:59] combined ad. Um in that combined ad, it

[13:03] lists all entities proposing a tax

[13:05] increase, the date that they have their

[13:08] um truth and taxation hearing scheduled,

[13:10] the amount of the additional property

[13:12] tax revenue they were proposing to

[13:14] receive, how much of an increase that

[13:17] was, and then some other pertinent

[13:19] information uh related to uh contact

[13:22] information. where the where that uh TNT

[13:25] meeting would be held um and that the

[13:27] percentage increased. So

[13:34] then in late July, Utah County mailed

[13:37] all the property tax valuation notices

[13:40] to every owner of property in the

[13:42] county. Um in that notice it in noticed

[13:46] the um amount that the city was

[13:49] requesting in property tax and also then

[13:52] not noted the various elements related

[13:54] to this TNT meeting public hearing

[13:57] meeting. On August 1st the city of ORM

[14:00] posted its first notice of proposed tax

[14:03] increase advertisement and that was

[14:05] placed in four different locations as

[14:07] required by state law. And then um it

[14:11] was re and then we also sent that notice

[14:13] to also not local newspapers on the 1st,

[14:16] 8th and 15th. And that notice looks like

[14:20] this

[14:21] and outlines uh on an average um ORM

[14:26] resident which that average is

[14:27] determined by Utah County and given to

[14:30] us and then it's calculated what that uh

[14:33] rate would increase from and to based on

[14:36] the tax uh if if the tax increase was in

[14:39] uh approved and what kind of revenue

[14:42] that would produce as you can see there.

[14:43] And then again down at the bottom

[14:45] indicating when this TNT meeting would

[14:47] be scheduled and where and what time.

[14:53] Then on August 27th, here we are. Uh

[14:57] this truth in taxation is opportunity to

[15:01] discuss the elements that were proposed

[15:03] as part of that pro proposed tax

[15:05] increase as well as giving uh some

[15:08] information related to it. And then you

[15:11] as council members have the opportunity

[15:12] to ask questions uh both staff and the

[15:15] public as they uh give their uh public

[15:18] input.

[15:22] Then just so we're all aware, the here

[15:25] is the proposed property tax impact

[15:27] schedule that was uh initially placed on

[15:30] our website and has continued to be

[15:32] there since the May 12th since May 13th,

[15:34] but since that uh was presented on the

[15:37] May 12th tenative budget meeting. In

[15:39] this proposed tax impact schedule, it

[15:41] outlines the change in the proposed uh

[15:44] tax rate levy from the certified tax

[15:47] rate from which is that you see at the

[15:49] top 00590

[15:51] uh would be proposed to go to 00631.

[15:55] You can see then there's some

[15:56] calculations in there to determine how

[15:58] much um property tax revenue in total

[16:01] the city would receive if there was uh

[16:04] no increase the 6.419 419370

[16:08] U million and what it would look like um

[16:11] if the proposed tax u change is made and

[16:15] the increase that that $450,000 increase

[16:18] which represents a 7.01% increase in the

[16:22] total revenue of the city for property

[16:24] taxes. Then in the middle section there

[16:27] you can see the estimated annual

[16:29] increase to a primary residence at

[16:30] 520,000.

[16:32] what that would mean on an annual basis

[16:34] and what percentage that is of their

[16:37] total tax related specifically to ORM

[16:40] city not their entire tax bill then uh

[16:44] also has the same calculation related to

[16:47] business uh businesses located in the

[16:49] city obviously the primary residence

[16:52] receives a 45% exemption so that's why

[16:55] their rate and amount is or the amount

[16:58] that is charged is less um because of

[17:00] that exemption

[17:02] And then uh down at the bottom you can

[17:04] see what departments would be affected

[17:07] by this tax increase. So if the tax

[17:10] increase is to go through um the police

[17:12] department would be receiving the

[17:14] $450,000.

[17:16] And what they are going to do with it is

[17:18] hire two additional police officers with

[17:21] associated vehicles and all the

[17:23] equipment that go along with uh being a

[17:26] police officer here in the city of Oram.

[17:30] And at this point, that's where we are.

[17:33] I just wonder, do you have any questions

[17:36] of me at this particular time? I I will

[17:38] be up here this whole time, the whole

[17:40] time of the meeting. So, you're welcome

[17:41] to ask me at any time.

[17:43] >> Um, not necessarily just right now.

[17:45] >> All right. Thank you. Council, do you

[17:47] have any questions for Mr. Nelson at

[17:49] this time? Um, council member Gail.

[17:53] Um, can you tell us please when was the

[17:56] last time ORM changed the property tax

[17:58] rate for residents?

[18:00] >> I believe it was 2019.

[18:02] >> Thank you. And can you also tell us and

[18:04] I think you had it on your slide there,

[18:05] but just so that we all know what

[18:07] percent of the total tax bill a resident

[18:09] sees would be for ORM city.

[18:12] >> Uh, ORM is approximately 14% of the

[18:15] total tax bill.

[18:16] >> So we're raising proposing to raise

[18:19] property taxes on that 14%.

[18:21] >> Thank you. All right. Thank you.

[18:24] Anybody? Any other council members?

[18:27] All right. Thank you. Um, Miss Jones,

[18:31] where's Jennick? Oh, there. There you

[18:33] are. [gasps]

[18:34] >> Welcome.

[18:36] I'll turn the time over to you.

[18:43] Okay. Is this on? Thank you, Mayor and

[18:46] Council. So, I'm just going to be

[18:48] presenting some additional public safety

[18:50] data. uh and police data. So, I'll just

[18:54] kind of go through these tables and

[18:56] charts and feel free to stop me at any

[18:58] time. So, the police department's fixed

[19:01] costs we've reviewed and all of them

[19:03] have been uh significantly increasing

[19:06] over time. So, this table over here on

[19:08] the left is showing the cost of a patrol

[19:10] car. So, in 2016, that was about 37,000

[19:16] uh before the outfit. And then now in

[19:18] 2026, that's almost doubled over that

[19:20] 10-year period to close to $70,000.

[19:23] [snorts] Um, and this chart here shows

[19:26] our overtime uh number of employees,

[19:29] number of total overtime hours, and

[19:31] total cost for the department over the

[19:34] past since fiscal year 17. Uh, you'll

[19:37] notice we have had a significant

[19:39] increase these past few years. uh this

[19:42] in fiscal year 26 almost 18,000 hours of

[19:45] overtime for the department. Um you will

[19:49] see that some of these previous years

[19:51] there was a higher number of employees

[19:53] hours cost than some of the more recent

[19:55] years. Most of that is due to dispatch.

[19:57] We used to have our own in-house

[19:59] dispatch and in fiscal year 23 that

[20:02] merged with metro dispatch. So that's a

[20:04] big reason for that. But we have seen a

[20:07] steady increase the past few years uh

[20:09] since having kind of just our steady

[20:11] staffing model and a huge increase in

[20:13] fiscal year 26.

[20:16] [snorts]

[20:17] Fuel has also been increasing in fiscal

[20:20] year 21 to fiscal year 25. We've had

[20:22] about $100,000

[20:24] increase that we've had to pay for the

[20:26] department's fuel or about 40% increase

[20:28] for that.

[20:30] And then also uniforms and firearms have

[20:32] increased quite significantly over that

[20:35] same time period.

[20:40] So these next few charts are some

[20:42] comparative data that kind of shows

[20:44] where does ORM sit in relation to other

[20:46] cities that are similar size or nearby.

[20:49] So the these charts on this page are

[20:51] reflective of public safety. So it's

[20:53] both police and fire. But for Perth

[20:55] resident, where does ORM sit? So on

[20:58] these charts, ORM is green. The average

[21:01] city of these uh comparative cities is

[21:03] yellow. So total police and fire FTEEs,

[21:07] we have 2.2 per thousand residents

[21:09] compared to the average of 2.5. You'll

[21:11] notice obviously a wide variation in

[21:13] that.

[21:15] And then obviously as we know, ORM has a

[21:17] quite significant daytime population as

[21:20] we have UVU, a lot of people commuting

[21:22] in for that as well as a large retail

[21:24] environment. So when we factor in

[21:26] daytime population, we have about 1.8

[21:30] total public safety FTEES per thousand

[21:33] of our daytime population. That's the

[21:36] lowest of these comparative cities.

[21:42] Uh this chart here shows what our public

[21:46] safety budget per resident is. Again,

[21:49] we're on the low end of these

[21:51] comparative cities. combined police and

[21:53] fire budget uh $344 per resident

[21:56] compared to that average of 427.

[22:01] And then property tax revenue per

[22:04] resident. This is just general property

[22:06] tax. So it excludes things like bonds

[22:08] and uh other things like that that are

[22:11] not related to general property tax. But

[22:13] ORM is again at the bottom of this chart

[22:15] at $84 general property tax per revenue

[22:18] per resident. uh compared to where those

[22:21] other cities sit.

[22:25] And so this chart here is specific to

[22:28] police, sworn police officers. Uh the

[22:31] previous chart was staffing for police

[22:33] and fire. So we have 1.1

[22:36] sworn police officers per thousand

[22:38] residents below that average

[22:41] uh slightly below that average. So and

[22:44] close to some of the other similar size

[22:46] cities.

[22:48] And we don't have a chart for this on

[22:50] here, but also experiences a similar

[22:52] trend with the daytime population as

[22:54] well, where that factors in quite

[22:56] significantly.

[22:58] And then we do have um 105 sworn

[23:01] officers, and that puts us a little

[23:03] below or above the average number of

[23:06] officers, but so that's about 19% above

[23:10] the average is 88 officers, but we're

[23:12] about 30% above the average population

[23:15] of these comparable cities. um and 42%

[23:18] above the average daytime population. So

[23:21] that factors into that as well. So that

[23:24] is the information I have on these.

[23:26] Happy to answer any questions. Go back

[23:28] and look at any chart more closely if

[23:30] you'd like.

[23:31] >> All right. Thank you. I do have a

[23:32] question on the chart that talks about

[23:34] the general property tax revenue per

[23:36] resident.

[23:38] >> Does that include is that just

[23:39] residential property tax revenue or does

[23:41] that include the businesses as well?

[23:42] >> It's all so that's not necessarily what

[23:44] a resident pays. It's just saying how

[23:45] much general uh property tax does that

[23:48] city collect divided by the number of

[23:50] residents.

[23:50] >> Okay. Thank you. Council, do you have

[23:52] Okay, council member Mikum has a

[23:54] question.

[23:55] >> Um, thanks very much, Jennica. This is

[23:57] really valuable information. So, if I'm

[24:00] if my math is correct, and I guess I'm

[24:02] just trying to get validation that it

[24:03] is, that on this U page here, that with

[24:08] the proposed increase in taxes, uh we

[24:12] would still be substantially lower than

[24:14] everyone on this list. So, we would

[24:18] retain our position as the lowest

[24:21] property tax revenue per resident among

[24:23] comparable cities.

[24:24] >> Yes. I don't have the exact dollar

[24:26] amount of how this calculation would

[24:28] work. Sorry. Maybe it'll pop up.

[24:34] Uh but that's low. The 84 is lower than

[24:37] a resident's pay. So it would increase

[24:39] by less than the $12. But it seems to me

[24:41] that if it's a $450,000 increase and we

[24:44] have close to 100,000 residents,

[24:46] >> right,

[24:46] >> that we're talking about a $5 increase

[24:49] per res

[24:50] >> on average, which would put us still

[24:52] >> still maybe $89

[24:55] on the charge, right? Yeah. And then can

[24:57] you scroll up to the one right right

[24:58] above that?

[25:01] Um, and so again, uh, assuming that this

[25:05] revenue all goes to public safety, that

[25:08] does not change our position at my

[25:11] comparable cities in the public safety

[25:13] budget per resident either, right?

[25:14] Because,

[25:15] >> right,

[25:15] >> uh, we're still substantively lower than

[25:18] not only the average, but even Spanish

[25:19] Fort.

[25:20] >> Yes.

[25:21] >> Okay. Thank you.

[25:23] >> All right, council. Are there any other

[25:25] questions or comments for uh, Miss

[25:28] Jones?

[25:30] All right.

[25:31] >> Are you guys going to be there being

[25:34] >> You're just gonna because I might have a

[25:35] question after the public. Is that okay?

[25:37] >> I'll be here.

[25:38] >> Yeah. [laughter] We're not going to let

[25:39] her go.

[25:41] All right. Thank you. We'll go ahead now

[25:44] and hear from um Chief BJ Robinson, our police chief,

[25:58] Mayor and City Council. My pleasure to

[26:00] be here today. Um thank you for

[26:06] considering this.

[26:08] Um,

[26:10] some have suggested that the tax

[26:12] increase is not warranted if calls for

[26:14] service have not increased in the last

[26:16] several years. While this perspective is

[26:18] understandable, our request for tax

[26:20] increase to support two additional

[26:22] officers was never based on an increase

[26:24] in calls for service. Rather, is about

[26:27] giving our officers the resources to

[26:29] handle increasingly difficult calls and

[26:31] manage staffing challenges while

[26:33] maintaining the high standard of service

[26:35] our community expects.

[26:37] As a 25-year ORM officer and your

[26:40] current police chief, I want to provide

[26:42] you a boots on the ground perspective

[26:46] of our operational reality behind this

[26:48] request for two officers and address why

[26:50] metrics like crime rates or response

[26:52] times do not tell the full story.

[26:55] While the 2021 study found baseline

[26:57] staffing adequate at at the time,

[26:59] operational strain has increased

[27:01] significantly.

[27:03] Our present- day demand for service is

[27:05] driven primarily by the complexity, not

[27:08] just call volume. We're seeing a rise in

[27:10] highly critical cases such as domestic

[27:12] violence, sexual assault, mental health

[27:14] crisises,

[27:15] and demand and they all demand

[27:18] significantly more police hours and

[27:20] documentation.

[27:22] These type of calls are just simply

[27:23] taking longer to do correctly.

[27:27] Adding two additional officers would

[27:29] increase our ability to handle these

[27:30] more intensive cases.

[27:34] With these increasing demands, we've had

[27:35] to make some difficult decisions,

[27:37] including permanently pulling officers

[27:38] from our traffic team, community

[27:40] policing, and mental health units. This

[27:43] has greatly impacted our ability to

[27:45] engage in proactive police work that

[27:47] helps stop crime before it ever starts.

[27:50] Even just two officers would help us get

[27:52] back to a more balanced approach of this our

[27:57] important community work.

[28:00] Another driver behind this request is

[28:02] the lag time required to replace and

[28:05] properly on board an officer. Since

[28:08] 2014, we average 13 new hires per year.

[28:14] And while every new hire instantly

[28:16] counts against our 105 budgeted

[28:17] positions, they cannot count towards

[28:20] minimum staffing or be put on the street

[28:23] by themselves.

[28:25] Takes between 4 and 12 months due to

[28:27] completing the police academy and field

[28:29] training. Between turnover, injuries

[28:32] [snorts]

[28:33] both on and off duty, military leave,

[28:36] required training, and just an officer

[28:38] trying to get a day off.

[28:40] Our

[28:42] available staffing is always

[28:44] significantly lower than our authorized

[28:47] and budgeted staffing.

[28:49] Two years ago, we had to institute a

[28:51] force out procedure where officers were

[28:54] mandated to extend their current shift

[28:57] or come in early from their already

[28:59] scheduled shift just to cover basic

[29:01] patrol minimums. Voluntary overtime was

[29:04] no longer sufficient in bridging these

[29:05] coverage gaps. Relying on this level of

[29:09] overtime is not sustainable and is

[29:12] extremely concerning.

[29:14] Adding two officers will aid much needed

[29:16] flexibility to the department and give

[29:18] us a capacity to absorb turnover without

[29:21] compromising officer wellness or

[29:23] community safety.

[29:25] The funding landscape over the last

[29:26] several years has also changed. Since

[29:29] 2020, we've incrementally added seven

[29:31] off officers through federal cop grants.

[29:34] Those federal funds pay for the salaries

[29:37] of those officers for the first 30 years

[29:40] and they have expired.

[29:43] We were not awarded any in our last

[29:46] application.

[29:47] Funding these two officers with a

[29:49] dedicated property tax would help

[29:51] stabilize our budget and make us less

[29:53] reliant on the unpredictable outside

[29:56] dollars.

[30:00] In my 25 year career at ORM, I have

[30:03] never felt like we have been fat with

[30:07] officers.

[30:12] We have trimmed.

[30:16] We have always done more with less

[30:19] because that is the ORM way.

[30:24] But we finally reached a breaking point

[30:28] [snorts] to where we need to cover the

[30:29] most basic police services. We have to

[30:32] cut into the muscle of our organization,

[30:34] which we have done. I'm here today. If

[30:36] we cut any more, we're going to be

[30:38] cutting into bone. [clears throat]

[30:41] To be completely honest with you, your

[30:43] department is stretched too thin. And

[30:46] they're tired.

[30:49] I'm tired

[30:51] cuz I see it.

[30:53] I [snorts] know the heartbeat of this

[30:54] department,

[31:00] but due to these dedicated officers and

[31:02] individuals that make up our department,

[31:04] [clears throat]

[31:10] our excellent culture, our commitment to

[31:12] a very high standard level of service,

[31:14] and our willing to sac willingness to

[31:16] sacrifice for this community, most of

[31:19] you wouldn't see it. Our

[31:23] response times remain excellent and

[31:25] public complaints are few, but it comes

[31:27] at a price.

[31:29] Our officers are deeply committed to

[31:30] this community. Maintaining this

[31:32] standard is with our current staffing

[31:35] places heavy burden on every officer.

[31:37] Increasing our staffing to 107 gives our

[31:40] team breathing room. They need to stay

[31:42] sharp, balanced, and effective.

[31:46] This creates a better turn. This creates

[31:48] a buffer against turnover [snorts] and

[31:50] reduces force overtime. It supports our

[31:52] officers long-term well-being so they

[31:55] can deliver the highlevel services ORM

[31:58] residents expect and are accustomed to.

[32:01] I remain committed to providing that

[32:04] standard to the citizens of ORM and that

[32:07] is why I'm here tonight.

[32:09] Thank you for your continued support of

[32:11] our department and of all the

[32:13] departments of the city

[32:15] as we work together to build and make

[32:17] ORM the best place to live, work, and

[32:20] play. Thank you. Any questions?

[32:23] >> All right. Thank you, um, Chief. Do you

[32:26] have any questions? All right, Council

[32:28] Member Mulestein.

[32:31] >> Thank you, Chief. We so appreciate the

[32:33] work that you do for our city. Um, in

[32:36] one of the slides that Jennica had or

[32:38] one of the graphs that she had, it

[32:39] showed that there are 18,000 hours of

[32:43] overtime by the police department.

[32:45] Correct. This past year,

[32:47] >> if I'm doing my math right, it roughly

[32:50] 40 hours a week over 50 weeks if we're

[32:52] counting two weeks PTO. Um, that's 2,000

[32:56] hours for a full-time officer. So, that

[32:59] would be nine officers equivalent of

[33:02] overtime. Does that sound right?

[33:05] >> I'll trust your math over mine.

[33:08] >> Um, yes. And that's total overtime.

[33:10] That's not just to cover shortages.

[33:12] That's events. That's every overtime

[33:16] dollar.

[33:16] >> So, [snorts] this proposed tax increase

[33:20] is for two officers.

[33:24] It's a very small tax increase and it

[33:26] sounds like it's not going to actually

[33:30] be what is needed but is a dent in what

[33:33] is needed. Do you have an estimate of

[33:40] what would

[33:42] put our police department in a more

[33:45] comfortable situation to where it's not

[33:48] stretched so thin of how many officers?

[33:52] 13

[33:55] >> because that's an average that we turn

[33:57] over every year and have hired year over year for the last 12 years.

[34:04] >> Thank you for the comment.

[34:06] >> All right. Thank you, Council Member

[34:08] Millet.

[34:09] >> Yeah. Um [clears throat] Okay. I'm not

[34:11] even sure what to say here. Um

[34:14] >> I'll listen to it all.

[34:16] >> Yes. And part of this is I mean today is

[34:19] when I heard the gravity of this

[34:20] situation.

[34:22] I I um

[34:27] I'm deeply bothered

[34:29] that this I appreciate your positivity

[34:32] these past few months. I appreciate the

[34:34] hard work that our police have put in. I

[34:37] know a few months ago we for we forego

[34:41] or we we set aside hiring two police

[34:44] officers to keep other um police

[34:48] uh in order to provide money for

[34:50] advancements for some for some of our

[34:52] other officers because it's a

[34:54] competitive business out there. We don't

[34:56] want other cities uh you do a great job

[34:58] with culture.

[34:59] >> Thank you.

[35:00] >> But we've got to put um you know food on

[35:03] the table. Allow our officers to do

[35:04] that. Um, this is a little disturbing to

[35:07] me right now quite frankly to hear this

[35:09] today. I at at this moment when we've

[35:11] been been researching all of this um cuz

[35:16] I deeply support the police. I feel that

[35:19] our police and fire are the number one

[35:22] priority of our city and of any city.

[35:28] Um, the unsung heroes. So, I appreciate

[35:31] your candid um comments tonight.

[35:35] >> Thank you

[35:35] >> very much. And I truly appreciate your

[35:38] leadership that you have um demonstrated

[35:42] these past months. Um so, I I guess I'm

[35:46] just going to leave it at that until we

[35:48] have a little more to say a little bit

[35:49] later. Thanks, Chief.

[35:50] >> Thank you.

[35:51] >> All right. Thank you. All right. C I'll

[35:54] just work. I think you all had did you

[35:56] all have okay then after council member

[35:58] Lamson council member Mikum

[36:00] >> so I'm not even going to try to attempt

[36:02] math but with these two officers um

[36:08] where does that get us closer to the

[36:10] average I I know it's not going to be

[36:13] the end all fix all uh from what you're

[36:16] describing but uh there was a slide that

[36:19] showed the the fiscal year the one that

[36:21] council member Molstein referred to the

[36:23] number of hours.

[36:25] Um,

[36:27] will this get us closer to the average?

[36:32] >> I I would say any additional officers

[36:34] that we can put on the road will help.

[36:38] I don't want to

[36:41] What is the average forum is a different

[36:43] city than Provo?

[36:44] >> 14,634.

[36:47] >> Say what?

[36:48] >> Oh, for overtime.

[36:49] >> I'm sorry. Yeah, for the overtime.

[36:52] Um

[36:54] it will definitely help there. It will

[36:56] not negate overtime. There will still be

[36:58] overtime. We will still have uh

[37:00] shortages. We will still have those challenges. Um

[37:06] two officers will help solve the

[37:08] problem. Two officers will not solve the

[37:11] problem.

[37:14] Thank you.

[37:18] Um, more I I've learned about ORM and

[37:21] its finances, the more uh I realize that

[37:24] part of the way we operate here is we

[37:26] always try to do more with less. Um,

[37:30] I've been impressed with previous uh

[37:32] city councils and administrations as

[37:34] well as city staff at always looking for

[37:36] opportunities to trim and create

[37:39] efficiencies. And I think, you know,

[37:42] we're a city council that really uh

[37:44] tries to be as fiscally conservative as

[37:47] we can. And um and uh I appreciate

[37:51] hearing your your remarks uh tonight,

[37:54] Chief, just because

[37:56] sometimes uh we we get it a little bit

[37:58] wrong, right? Uh we can go a little bit

[38:00] too thin on occasion uh in a way that

[38:03] negatively impacts uh our personnel or

[38:06] our services. And so, um,

[38:10] hearing you talk a little bit about, um,

[38:13] the way this might impact your culture,

[38:16] which is something we deeply value is

[38:18] just is just great and we appreciate you

[38:20] bringing this request to us and just

[38:22] really appreciate uh, you being here

[38:23] with us tonight. Thank you. Thank you.

[38:27] >> Question.

[38:27] >> Okay, Council Member Mill.

[38:29] >> Okay. So, just cuz I just remembered

[38:30] when we gave our fire fighters, our fire

[38:33] some um we restructured their uh

[38:37] salaries and advancements,

[38:40] um there were some issues for a little

[38:42] bit about that there wasn't as much

[38:44] overtime available. Do you what what you

[38:48] know, everyone likes a little bit

[38:49] overtime, but you don't want to get

[38:50] burned out on the overtime.

[38:53] Uh kind of give me your thoughts on that

[38:55] from your um force. How do they feel

[38:58] about overtime? Are they completely

[39:00] burned out? Do they want some? Do they

[39:03] want to hire 19 officers? What where are

[39:07] you on this?

[39:08] >> We're having to force officers out. And

[39:10] how that works is if this is our minimum

[39:13] staffing, you know, seven plus Bren, uh,

[39:17] which actually is our minimum staffing

[39:18] for a swing shift is seven officers and

[39:20] a supervisor.

[39:22] and you call in sick or whatever the

[39:25] circumstance may be, I need to have an

[39:28] officer there to make sure the proper

[39:31] services are provided to the city and

[39:33] that the rest of you guys are safe

[39:35] because you're adequately staffed. And

[39:37] so a page goes out

[39:41] and then we wait

[39:43] and then a page goes out

[39:48] and then we wait

[39:56] and nobody takes it. And Bren's

[39:59] supervisor on duty and he calls his

[40:02] buddy Pete. Hey, I need you tonight.

[40:08] Sergeant, I've worked

[40:10] too many shifts. I need a break,

[40:14] but I'll come in.

[40:17] And so he fills his shift

[40:20] or her shift.

[40:24] Not everybody's like Pete.

[40:28] Not everybody's able to do it because

[40:32] they are tired and they're burned out.

[40:33] So, we had to institute a mandatory call

[40:35] out where every year it resets and every

[40:40] time that that call went out and you

[40:42] voluntarily came in for however many

[40:45] hours that you worked that overtime

[40:47] shift, that would go to your number and

[40:50] cycle you back down on the list. And if

[40:53] nobody came out after all the waiting,

[40:55] nobody volunteered for waiting, we go

[40:58] down to the list as to who we would

[41:00] force out. We wouldn't force anybody out

[41:03] that was on their day off. So that

[41:05] usually fell to a swing shift officer or

[41:08] a dayshift officer either staying late

[41:11] or come in early.

[41:14] So they're working

[41:16] potentially a 16 18 hour shift depending

[41:18] on on the time that they actually come

[41:21] in.

[41:21] >> So follow-up question then. Um I'm

[41:24] trying to remember February March is

[41:27] when we gave those um slots for the two

[41:30] officers. We reallocated that funding.

[41:33] Um, is there a reason why we didn't hire

[41:36] officers back then?

[41:37] >> We've been hiring off officers

[41:39] constantly. We've hired 17 officers this

[41:41] year.

[41:43] I want to say eight have left for

[41:46] various reasons this year.

[41:48] That's what we're faced over the last 10

[41:50] 12 years. Poling over the last 10 12

[41:53] years and the profession. It's just not

[41:56] a unique problem to ORM,

[41:58] but it's the turnover.

[42:00] It's officers leaving for the private

[42:02] sector. It's officers being terminated.

[42:06] It's officers moving to, you know, the

[42:09] next city over for whatever reason. It's

[42:12] a better circumstance for them, whatever

[42:14] they choose. But it's a continual

[42:16] turnover that we've seen.

[42:19] And I use 2014 just as a benchmark

[42:23] because that's when it significantly

[42:25] began.

[42:27] Um, and that's the reason why.

[42:30] >> So, you haven't been denied funding?

[42:32] >> Have not been denied funding. Much as

[42:34] the same reason I'm not asking for 13 is

[42:36] I don't want to hire 13 today

[42:40] and try to training them all up.

[42:43] officers continually having to train new

[42:46] officers is a great strain on that

[42:48] officer training. So, you're training

[42:50] somebody for three weeks

[42:53] and then you're training somebody for 3

[42:55] weeks and then you get a week off and

[42:58] then you're training the next one for

[43:00] three weeks.

[43:02] That's the problems that we're facing as

[43:04] a profession and that we're experiencing

[43:06] here in ORM.

[43:08] >> Thank you. Thanks, Chief. All right,

[43:10] Council Member Gail.

[43:12] >> So, I know we ask a lot of our officers

[43:15] and they deliver and they do it with

[43:17] such professionalism and I I've had

[43:19] firsthand experience working with them

[43:20] in the last week in fact and I was so

[43:22] impressed and they didn't know who I

[43:23] was. They were just delivering that

[43:25] level of service because that's who they

[43:26] are. My question is how does this, you

[43:30] know, mandatory call outs, is that what

[43:31] you called it? How does that impact

[43:33] retention? How does how does the the

[43:35] stress you feel like they're under? How

[43:36] does that impact retention of officers?

[43:42] It's not positive.

[43:44] Um,

[43:48] so I have a one-on-one with every

[43:50] employee on their anniversary. So if you

[43:53] get hired in August, then uh I have a

[43:56] scheduled meeting. Some of those

[43:58] conversations are that tell me what's

[44:01] going right, what's going wrong, what

[44:03] good ideas do you have for improvement,

[44:05] what how can we get better?

[44:08] That's a topic of conversation in many

[44:10] is just being able to get a day off. Um

[44:14] being able to work not minimum staffed.

[44:19] That's like Christmas

[44:21] when you have seven officers plus two

[44:24] more and nobody's taking time off or

[44:26] nobody's off for an injury or nobody's

[44:29] gone for a training. Holy cow.

[44:35] That's Christmas on August 27th.

[44:40] And so that's how I would answer that.

[44:45] >> All right. Thank you. Any any other

[44:47] comments? Well, I'm going to say a

[44:49] couple things. Um, first of all, I I

[44:52] just want to echo the appreciation that

[44:54] the others have have stated for you and

[44:58] your team. [gasps] This is heavy stuff.

[45:01] I as I was doing my research for this

[45:05] and thought about the different types of

[45:08] calls that you receive. [sighs]

[45:11] It's one thing

[45:13] to pull me over for a traffic stop.

[45:18] It's another thing

[45:20] to be part of a

[45:23] DV or a sexual assault or a severe

[45:27] mental health crisis situation. That's

[45:30] the toll it takes on our officers. I

[45:34] can't imagine. I think about the

[45:36] situations in my prior employment where

[45:38] I worked a lot with those who

[45:41] experienced all three of those things

[45:43] and the the weight that one carries when

[45:45] one is dealing with that. It's not it's not how many it's I want to say

[45:51] it's quality meaning that it's not not

[45:54] that it's good quality, but it it's it's

[45:57] what's involved. not just the paperwork

[45:59] and the investigations, but I would say

[46:01] the mental the mental toll

[46:04] that it would have on on dealing with

[46:07] the types of of situations that we our

[46:11] society seems to be seeing an increase

[46:13] of. So, I just want to state that that really stood out to me as I as I

[46:18] was doing my research is the types of

[46:20] calls that you get and just how it

[46:22] affects one's one's soul for lack of a

[46:26] better word. I do have a question.

[46:30] Last September, we experienced a

[46:33] horrible tragedy here in ORM with uh the

[46:37] murder of Charlie Kirk

[46:39] [snorts] and

[46:41] wondering [gasps]

[46:43] and you and I have talked about this a

[46:44] little bit, but if you wanted to expand

[46:46] a little bit more, what impact

[46:50] did those that experience of having gone

[46:53] through something like that

[46:56] due to what what you as the chief saw

[46:59] would be the needs in ORM even though

[47:00] that was at UVU.

[47:02] Uh I'm sure that you took a look at how

[47:06] okay now we need to look at how we do

[47:09] things in ORM and I want to understand

[47:11] did that have an impact on this request

[47:13] as well and then what kinds of things are you thinking?

[47:20] Um I would have made this request uh

[47:23] absent that event. Uh those

[47:25] conversations were

[47:28] I I can distinctly remember

[47:31] conversations with Bren in March and

[47:33] [clears throat] April of seeing today of

[47:35] how heavy it is right now of knowing how

[47:38] many we were down, how many we had hired

[47:41] but that were still in the academy.

[47:43] Currently we I think we have seven on

[47:46] FTO.

[47:48] Um, and I think they were hired in April

[47:52] and they may be off

[47:55] by the end of September. And so I know

[47:58] that they're there and I have a name on

[47:59] the list, but I don't get to count them

[48:01] until October. [snorts]

[48:04] Um,

[48:06] so I would have made this request

[48:09] without that. How that impacted us was

[48:16] uh that was a bad week.

[48:18] uh for everybody involved to say the

[48:21] least.

[48:23] Um

[48:25] I would say nearly every of one of our

[48:29] officers were working those entire four

[48:31] days. Um if the suspect was not

[48:34] apprehended,

[48:36] uh we were about to go on mandatory

[48:38] 12-hour rotations in order to keep up

[48:41] the needs of the investigation and still

[48:43] keep our city running. Uh so on the back

[48:46] side of that, beginning to look at our

[48:48] public events and how many events or how

[48:51] many people are at our uh successful uh

[48:57] food truck events or farmers markets in

[48:59] the park. Um

[49:02] Bren first asked me if we could have

[49:04] officers that are on duty patrol that

[49:07] just swing by every now and then.

[49:10] Maybe.

[49:12] Likely not. Why? Because I only have six

[49:16] or seven you work of you working and the

[49:18] call load does not allow for us to

[49:21] really swing by and give you the

[49:24] security that they feel. So we have

[49:27] staffed that with additional officers on

[49:30] overtime so that the people in that park

[49:33] have an officer presence. If you

[49:35] remember to the night of the vigil on

[49:37] September 11th,

[49:40] how did it feel

[49:43] being circled

[49:45] by dozens of officers?

[49:51] How did it feel?

[49:54] I can feel it today like I'm looking at

[49:57] you now.

[50:00] So we provide you two

[50:04] and if it overwhelms a two then the

[50:05] calvary is coming.

[50:10] I don't know how else to answer that.

[50:13] >> Appreciate that. Thank you. All right.

[50:16] Council member um Lamson.

[50:19] >> Thank you, Chief. Um, [clears throat]

[50:22] I want to mention something also that I

[50:26] think a lot of times

[50:28] we don't think about or don't know about

[50:31] and that is your family at home.

[50:44] I can't even imagine uh the things that

[50:48] you and your officers and I would extend

[50:51] this to our fire team.

[50:54] The things that you witness, the things

[50:57] that you experience, and the things that

[50:58] you feel

[51:02] when your shift's over.

[51:04] And you can't just leave that on the

[51:06] desk.

[51:09] that becomes a part of who you are

[51:15] and a very heavy load that you carry.

[51:19] And who's there to meet you when you get

[51:20] home?

[51:25] Your spouse,

[51:27] a good dog, kids.

[51:30] I've got all three. Luckily, you're a

[51:32] lucky man.

[51:37] But this doesn't stop with you.

[51:42] That ripple is not just a little ripple.

[51:45] I believe that it's

[51:48] a a title wave at times that your family

[51:52] has to deal with.

[51:54] And uh I want to make sure that they

[51:57] don't go unmentioned uh in their needs

[52:01] uh their emotional

[52:03] uh things that they have to deal with

[52:06] when dad comes home or mom comes home

[52:08] and they've just been to hell.

[52:13] And uh

[52:15] anyway, I I just want to uh [snorts]

[52:19] thank them for what they put up with and

[52:23] what they have to deal with when dad

[52:25] comes home and he's a little grumpy

[52:28] or won't talk.

[52:32] Uh

[52:36] we're grateful for them, too. and we

[52:38] know that they're not officially sworn

[52:40] officers,

[52:42] but they're part of the team and they're

[52:44] part of the reason for the success

[52:47] that you have as a Norman Police

[52:49] Department. And again, I would extend

[52:51] that to the fire department. We're

[52:53] grateful that they put up with

[52:57] allow you to do the work that you've

[52:59] chosen to do.

[53:02] And uh

[53:05] sometimes they are the the unsung heroes

[53:08] in the background quietly making sure

[53:11] that life carries on and uh we love them

[53:16] as well. We're grateful for all that

[53:18] they do to support you and your

[53:21] officers. Thank you.

[53:25] >> Thank you. Any other comments,

[53:27] questions?

[53:29] All right. Thank you, Chief.

[53:32] Uh, before I open the public hearing, I

[53:34] do have a question again for Brandon,

[53:36] Mr. Nelson. Um, as I was looking through

[53:39] what the proposed ordinance is, there's

[53:41] something something new there this year

[53:44] besides this proposal for a t a property

[53:47] tax increase, but it's to uh uh the

[53:51] words public safety special revenue

[53:54] fund. I could tell you when I got my tax

[53:56] notice and I just kind of chugged

[53:59] through it and I knew I knew it was

[54:01] there to see to see a new that in red

[54:05] that you the way that they have to do

[54:06] it. In red it says the public safety

[54:09] special revenue fund and then it will

[54:11] have a 100% and it's like holy smokes

[54:14] what's happened and you got to go up and

[54:16] you look at the the general fund and

[54:19] that's been zeroed out. Uh would you

[54:21] mind just taking a moment to talk about

[54:24] the what the property uh the special

[54:28] public safety special revenue fund is

[54:31] and and what what did people see on

[54:33] their tax forms?

[54:35] >> You bet. Thank you. Uh so the special

[54:38] revenue fund was um put into place uh

[54:42] because the uh city would like to have

[54:46] the entire city property tax dedicated

[54:50] to public safety.

[54:53] State law requires that if that

[54:55] dedication were to occur that there must

[54:58] be a special revenue fund created to

[55:01] receive those property tax dollars.

[55:04] Now, even without a dedication, the city

[55:08] on its own could create a special

[55:10] revenue fund if there were special

[55:13] revenues associated with that and that

[55:16] would be reported individually.

[55:19] The city could also create that fund

[55:23] just as a separate way of accounting

[55:26] just to keep track of the public safety

[55:29] department as a separate separately. It

[55:32] would then have to be blended into our

[55:35] general fund for all reporting purposes,

[55:38] but it could be still there, right? It's

[55:41] um our development fees fund operates

[55:44] that way where it's separate accounting

[55:47] fund, but for all reporting purposes, it

[55:50] is blended into our general fund. So, so

[55:53] there those are the three reasons for

[55:55] creating the fund as well as an ability

[55:57] to see the specific elements related to

[56:02] public safety and see in the bottom line

[56:06] we have to transfer sales tax. We have

[56:08] to transfer we say sales tax. We have to

[56:11] transfer revenues from the general fund

[56:15] to cover whatever fees are not and or

[56:18] taxes are not covering the cost of

[56:20] public safety. And so it outlines

[56:24] specifically what those costs are.

[56:29] Um

[56:31] then I'm trying to remember the other

[56:32] part of the question

[56:34] >> just what I just explanation of what

[56:36] they saw on we needed to create the

[56:38] fund. So um and move it

[56:41] >> a part of that uh June 9th meeting where

[56:43] we uh intended to move forward with this

[56:46] meeting and as part of that also t we

[56:49] intended to move forward with the

[56:50] dedication of that property tax. I had

[56:53] to notify the uh Utah county of that

[56:56] dedicate intended dedication. So then

[56:59] they put that on the tax bill

[57:02] >> for that because of that intention.

[57:05] >> Okay. So if for whatever re if we were

[57:07] in to not go forward with that

[57:10] dedication, then Utah County would

[57:12] remove that line item from the actual

[57:16] tax bill and it would then show up in

[57:19] that general uh city back in the general

[57:21] fund.

[57:21] >> General general fund. Yes.

[57:22] >> Okay. Thank you. All right. Council

[57:24] member Gail,

[57:27] um

[57:27] >> you you I think mentioned this before,

[57:29] but can you just remind us what percent

[57:31] of the public safety budget this tax

[57:33] increase will cover?

[57:36] Well, the the it's 38 point $40 million

[57:41] is the public safety cost and so uh

[57:45] property taxes are approximately 8 point

[57:48] with the increase would be approximately

[57:50] $8.1 million.

[57:53] So let's see what is that 20%.

[57:56] >> And the rest will be funded by what?

[57:59] >> Um the rest would be covered by

[58:01] ambulance revenues.

[58:04] um various uh inspection revenues,

[58:09] uh our contracts with Lynen and Vineyard

[58:13] uh for fire and EMS and dispatch

[58:15] services

[58:16] and then some other smaller uh revenue

[58:19] sources and then as mentioned the the

[58:22] remaining 25 million is covered by

[58:26] revenues from the general fund

[58:28] >> which are from sales tax

[58:29] >> can be whichever source you want to call

[58:31] from whether it's sales tax, franchise

[58:33] tax, interest, earnings,

[58:36] etc.

[58:37] >> Okay. Thank you.

[58:38] >> You back.

[58:38] >> All right. Thank you. Um, Council Member

[58:40] Millet.

[58:41] >> So, just because I don't remember, do

[58:43] you transfer that 25 million into that

[58:46] fund or do we just keep in the general

[58:48] fund and use it as needed? Uh so my

[58:50] intention would be then uh period

[58:52] probably quarterly to evaluate uh the

[58:56] costs that are in that fund and where we

[58:58] sit and then I would do that transfer um

[59:01] each quarter and then try to as close as

[59:04] possible true that up um at near year

[59:06] end.

[59:07] >> Okay. So as needed we'll still have um

[59:10] funds in the general fund then

[59:13] >> correct

[59:14] >> transfer. Thank you.

[59:16] >> All right. Anybody else?

[59:19] All right. What you all have come for

[59:24] and it's time for a public hearing.

[59:26] We're just before you got started, sir.

[59:28] I'm just going to reiterate a couple of

[59:29] things and then I'll turn the time over

[59:33] to you. Carly over here. Um Carly, I did

[59:37] I call you Carly and you're not your

[59:38] Caitlyn?

[59:40] This this wonderful human right here.

[59:43] And I'm just totally embarrassed. And

[59:44] I'm gonna turn as red as my sweater here

[59:46] because I'm is will help help keep keep

[59:49] up on this front row. This front row is

[59:52] set aside for those who would like to

[59:54] speak. And so as one person gets up. If

[59:57] there's someone else who would like to

[59:58] speak, go ahead and take their seat and

[1:00:00] we'll just kind of work our way work our

[1:00:03] way down here. And then Oh, I was going

[1:00:05] to say you don't have to move seat.

[1:00:07] We'll just we'll just move down unless

[1:00:08] you want to move seats, but okay. Okay,

[1:00:10] for everybody maybe that you probably

[1:00:12] enjoy having your legs stretched out

[1:00:16] and so

[1:00:18] just move on down and then [gasps] it's

[1:00:21] kind of like a an odd musical chair. So

[1:00:23] we need to have a song or something but

[1:00:25] maybe not. Um so again we're going to

[1:00:28] have our public hearing. We're going to

[1:00:29] have uh we have three minutes and then

[1:00:32] we're going to really have to stick to

[1:00:34] the three-minut time and so um if you go

[1:00:37] over Teresa will be reminding you that

[1:00:40] it's time to time to stop and

[1:00:45] then let me make sure and then again

[1:00:46] with those who Pete who do we have how

[1:00:49] many do we have on Zoom

[1:00:52] four okay so we'll do first first three

[1:00:56] and then we'll go do three on the Zoom and then come back and do three. So

[1:01:03] again, ask that you keep it to three

[1:01:05] minutes and

[1:01:08] >> what's that?

[1:01:11] >> State.

[1:01:11] >> Oh yes. If you could look at the on the podium, it's ask if you state

[1:01:14] your name and whether you're an Orm

[1:01:16] resident. So sir, welcome. The time is

[1:01:19] yours.

[1:01:20] >> Hi there. Thanks for having me today. My

[1:01:23] name is Mike Preston and uh I live in

[1:01:26] Orm. First of all, I just want to say

[1:01:28] that um I love and appreciate the warm

[1:01:35] police department and firefighters. I've

[1:01:38] had a chance to interact with several of

[1:01:41] them in over the years. So, my remarks I

[1:01:44] hope is no way disparaging of them.

[1:01:47] Okay? So, I just I really appreciate

[1:01:50] them.

[1:01:51] Since 2017, when we moved to into our

[1:01:54] present home, we have watched our

[1:01:56] property taxes go from $2,900 to $4,200

[1:02:00] in 9 years, which is a 67% increase. We

[1:02:06] are retired and live on a fixed income

[1:02:08] and can't help but feel we are being

[1:02:11] taxed right out of our home.

[1:02:13] Before I complete my remarks, I want to

[1:02:15] preface them by saying a few words

[1:02:19] about what our founding fathers thought

[1:02:22] about property tax,

[1:02:24] which maybe we've forgotten.

[1:02:28] First of all, they they abhor it. They

[1:02:31] abhor property taxes. And here's why.

[1:02:35] George Washington said,

[1:02:38] "If government can tax your property

[1:02:40] without your say, your consent,

[1:02:44] it soon holds power over your very life.

[1:02:47] Property is the rootstock of liberty

[1:02:49] itself." The founders also felt that a

[1:02:53] free hold, your bit of earth, and a roof

[1:02:56] over your head meant independence.

[1:02:59] If a magistrate or parliament could

[1:03:01] seize it at will or tax it until you

[1:03:04] cannot keep it, you are not a free man.

[1:03:09] And that just makes us tenants at

[1:03:11] sufference, not free citizens.

[1:03:15] In other words, we're just paying rent.

[1:03:19] And that just makes uh property and

[1:03:22] liberty rise and fall together.

[1:03:25] I want to make it clear again. I'm not

[1:03:27] against having more police or firemen. I

[1:03:30] just think that they can be funded from

[1:03:33] sources other than property taxes. If

[1:03:36] our taxes are raised, no matter how much

[1:03:38] or how little, for everything that

[1:03:40] governments have to

[1:03:43] figure out, it will never stop and it

[1:03:45] will eventually spin out of control

[1:03:47] until people on fixed incomes like me

[1:03:49] will have to leave our homes that they

[1:03:52] worked for most of their lives to

[1:03:54] acquire. Raising taxes is simply taking

[1:03:58] the easy way out when other solutions

[1:04:00] are available. I'm not here tonight to

[1:04:03] beg and plead with you not to raise my

[1:04:05] taxes.

[1:04:07] I'm telling you to re not raise my taxes

[1:04:11] because you would be doing it against my

[1:04:13] consent.

[1:04:16] Um, as elected officials, I feel that

[1:04:20] you take our welfare into consideration

[1:04:24] [gasps]

[1:04:25] and uh by raising our taxes, I don't

[1:04:27] believe you're doing that. You're taking

[1:04:29] advantage of us. Thank you. Thank you.

[1:04:36] All right. Before um before Miss Cox

[1:04:40] comes out, I just ask that you refrain

[1:04:42] from applauding. [gasps] I know that

[1:04:44] there are people here that you feel that

[1:04:46] people are saying things that you agree

[1:04:47] with and maybe not agree with, but I

[1:04:49] just ask that we not we not applaud.

[1:04:51] Thank you. Welcome.

[1:04:53] >> Thank you. Um I'm Judy Cox. I've been an

[1:04:56] uh ORM resident for 34 years. And first

[1:04:59] I want to clearly state that I fully

[1:05:01] support our police and fire all public

[1:05:04] safety and believe that they're a core

[1:05:07] priority of the city. And after

[1:05:09] listening to the very uh emotional

[1:05:12] um messages tonight that we heard from

[1:05:14] the chief, I believe that we need to

[1:05:16] have some some extra officers to support

[1:05:19] them. But I also believe it sounds like

[1:05:21] the challenges are much greater than a

[1:05:24] $450,000

[1:05:26] uh property tax can address. Um this all

[1:05:30] started back in May when the council

[1:05:32] created a special revenue fund solely

[1:05:34] for public safety, funneling property

[1:05:37] tax from the general fund to cover their

[1:05:39] existing budget. But you all knew in

[1:05:42] June the request would be made for two

[1:05:44] additional officers. And because of that

[1:05:47] action of putting it in a special

[1:05:48] revenue fund, it created a false

[1:05:51] shortfall. And um so a false shortfall

[1:05:56] was created. So the claim could be made

[1:05:58] that a tax hike was the only way to

[1:06:00] correct that. Even though the city has

[1:06:03] enough flexibility to absorb a small

[1:06:06] $450,000

[1:06:07] request, future property tax growth is

[1:06:10] now locked into public safety only. All

[1:06:13] other departments must compete with a

[1:06:15] reduced general fund, setting up future

[1:06:18] artificial crises that will be used to

[1:06:21] justify more tax increases. This action

[1:06:24] gives public safety guaranteed funds,

[1:06:27] which breeds unchecked growth. Shielding

[1:06:31] one department from the budgeting

[1:06:33] process ensures that it expands while

[1:06:36] everything else feels the pinch. This

[1:06:39] special revenue fund is not an ironclad

[1:06:42] commitment to public safety or to

[1:06:44] transparency because it can be altered

[1:06:47] by any future council through a simple

[1:06:50] ordinance change. Instead, I believe it

[1:06:53] was a move intended to make the tax hike

[1:06:56] more sellable to you and to the public.

[1:06:59] This is about increasing taxes in a city

[1:07:02] that has a history of very few tax

[1:07:05] increases. Rather than wearing that

[1:07:08] long-standing record as a badge of

[1:07:10] honor, especially in a thriving

[1:07:13] community like we have, you have

[1:07:15] approved a financial shell game and are

[1:07:18] now asking residents to bail out a

[1:07:21] manufactured crisis. This is bad public

[1:07:24] policy, creating an unchecked fund for

[1:07:28] one department while tightening funds

[1:07:30] for others and then asking taxpayers to

[1:07:33] make up the difference. An accounting

[1:07:35] shift in May does not justify a tax

[1:07:38] increase in August. Fix this. Hold faith

[1:07:43] with those who elected you. Vote no on

[1:07:46] the tax increase. Work with existing uh

[1:07:50] discretionary funding to hire the

[1:07:53] officers that we clearly need and commit

[1:07:56] to dismantling this revenue fund so that

[1:07:59] we can get out of a trap that sets us

[1:08:02] all up for future tax hikes. Thank you.

[1:08:05] >> Right. Thank you.

[1:08:07] All right.

[1:08:09] Welcome.

[1:08:10] >> Hi.

[1:08:15] » I'm Kathy Young and I want to talk about

[1:08:18] what's possible. For four years, under

[1:08:21] the previous mayor and council, this

[1:08:23] city did not raise property taxes one

[1:08:26] time, not once. And that stretch covered

[1:08:29] the worst inflation this country has

[1:08:30] seen in 40 years. fuel, asphalt,

[1:08:34] equipment, health insurance, wages.

[1:08:36] Everything the city buys went up hard

[1:08:39] all at once. Nobody handled Nobody

[1:08:42] handed that council an easy budget.

[1:08:45] Here's what they did instead. They cut

[1:08:47] costs. They went line by line and found

[1:08:50] things the city could live without. They

[1:08:52] went out and raised millions of dollars

[1:08:54] from grants so residents didn't have to.

[1:08:57] And they spent less than the city took

[1:08:59] in every single year. That's the most

[1:09:02] meaningful part of your job. That's why

[1:09:04] our residents elected you. So my

[1:09:07] question tonight is straightforward and

[1:09:10] I'd like an answer before anybody votes.

[1:09:12] What has this council cut? What did you

[1:09:15] look at and decide ORM could do without

[1:09:17] this year? What grant money did you go

[1:09:19] and find? Where is the list of

[1:09:21] alternatives you worked through before

[1:09:23] you decided to raise taxes? I've watched

[1:09:26] these meetings. I've heard the budget

[1:09:28] discussions. What I see is a proposal to

[1:09:30] raise taxes and restructuring to make

[1:09:33] the next tax increase easier. I don't

[1:09:35] see the hard work that's supposed to

[1:09:37] come first. Understand what I'm saying

[1:09:40] and what I'm not. I'm not saying this

[1:09:42] city has no needs. Every city has needs

[1:09:44] and I want our police and fire

[1:09:46] departments funded well. I vote for that

[1:09:48] tomorrow. What I'm what I'm saying is

[1:09:51] that raising taxes is the easiest thing

[1:09:53] an elected official will ever do. It

[1:09:55] takes about four minutes and it's always

[1:09:57] easier to say yes. Closing the same gap

[1:10:00] by managing the budget is months of

[1:10:02] work. It means going through every

[1:10:04] department, finding real savings,

[1:10:06] chasing outside money, and telling

[1:10:08] somebody no makes people in this room

[1:10:11] unhappy with you. That's the difficult

[1:10:13] part. That's the part you were elected

[1:10:15] for. Let's remind you, four years, no

[1:10:18] tax increase, worst inflation in 40

[1:10:21] years. It isn't a theory and it isn't

[1:10:23] ancient history. It happened in this

[1:10:25] building with this budget and some of

[1:10:27] the same staff. So when you tell us

[1:10:29] tonight that there's no other way,

[1:10:31] understand that we've seen the other

[1:10:33] way. We lived through it. Watch. What's

[1:10:36] changed isn't isn't the math. What's

[1:10:38] changed is a willingness to do the hard

[1:10:40] work. That's what tonight is really

[1:10:42] about. Not the $12 the year the years

[1:10:45] after it. Once this this fund exists, it

[1:10:47] will always fall short of its own name.

[1:10:49] And that shortfall becomes the reason to

[1:10:51] come back every year for more money. A

[1:10:53] little at a time, never enough to fight

[1:10:55] over. And the hard work of going through

[1:10:57] this budget line by line stops

[1:10:59] happening. I'd rather be governed by

[1:11:01] people that I'd rather be governed by

[1:11:04] people than by a formula. When a council

[1:11:06] has to come make it its case every year,

[1:11:08] we get to hear the reasoning and you get

[1:11:10] to hear from us. That's part that's the

[1:11:12] part worth protecting and it's the part

[1:11:14] the structure gives away. So vote the

[1:11:17] increase down and send the restructure

[1:11:18] back. manage the budget the way you

[1:11:20] should and if the need is still there

[1:11:22] next spring, come tell us and we'll

[1:11:23] listen. ORM has never turned down

[1:11:25] something we understand and believe in.

[1:11:27] Thank you. Thank you.

[1:11:30] All right. Um Pete,

[1:11:33] we ready to go with with our our first

[1:11:36] person who is online.

[1:11:40] Welcome.

[1:11:42] >> All right. Um this is Bradley speaking

[1:11:44] here. We will give the first time to

[1:11:46] Rasmmanson. you will now

[1:11:49] have the opportunity to comment.

[1:11:50] Remember to state your name and whether

[1:11:51] you are an ORUM resident. I'll grant you

[1:11:54] permission to unmute and turn on your

[1:11:55] camera and your three minutes will begin

[1:11:57] when you begin speaking. And if you do

[1:11:58] not wish to comment, simply state that

[1:12:00] you do not wish to comment. And

[1:12:01] afterwards, we will hear from Marian

[1:12:03] Baxter followed by Troy.

[1:12:09] » All right. Welcome,

[1:12:15] Okay. Can you hear me? Okay.

[1:12:18] Yes, this

[1:12:20] >> it does not allow me to turn on my video

[1:12:22] at this time, so I will just go with

[1:12:24] audio. I am Rasmmanson. I am an

[1:12:27] ORM resident and I have lived here for

[1:12:32] more than 20 years. And I want to start

[1:12:33] off by saying that I support this tax

[1:12:36] increase. I came to this meeting with

[1:12:40] some knowledge and this meeting has been

[1:12:42] incredibly instructive on both a logical

[1:12:44] and an emotional level. And I am usually

[1:12:47] more moved by logical arguments. So I

[1:12:50] really appreciated all the data and the

[1:12:52] facts about the budget and the needs

[1:12:54] that were presented by the employees.

[1:12:57] And then um I was unexpectedly moved by

[1:13:01] our police chief and his uh very

[1:13:04] detailed description of the needs in

[1:13:07] this city and how this has been

[1:13:09] affecting his police voice and by

[1:13:11] extension us the residents. So, um I

[1:13:15] would say that I support this tax

[1:13:17] increase number one because it is

[1:13:19] incredibly small and and we have not had

[1:13:22] a tax increase for many years thanks to

[1:13:25] the many administrations that have

[1:13:27] worked hard to cut um to cut unnecessary

[1:13:32] uh costs and to find those grants as was

[1:13:35] stated by a previous commenter. really

[1:13:37] appreciate the work of those previous

[1:13:38] administrations, but the fact is is that

[1:13:41] eventually you get to a point that those

[1:13:43] are no longer options. And so I think

[1:13:45] we've reached that point. I think that

[1:13:46] we've reached that point that there are

[1:13:49] no more uh costs to be cut and maybe

[1:13:53] grants are a little harder to come by.

[1:13:55] In the meantime, uh, inflation continues

[1:13:58] to be a concern and as the police chief

[1:14:01] pointed out, the needs have increased

[1:14:03] and changed in both their quantity and

[1:14:06] in their um, in the depth of what they

[1:14:09] need. And then second, I think it's uh,

[1:14:12] for me really important to listen to

[1:14:14] those who have boots on the ground. And

[1:14:17] so to hear the police chief say that

[1:14:19] this is a very critical time, I take

[1:14:21] that very seriously. And uh

[1:14:24] additionally, I take seriously the city

[1:14:26] council's uh very careful deliberation

[1:14:29] over many years. Some of you have been

[1:14:31] here for a long time to keep our taxes

[1:14:34] low. So in summary, I support this

[1:14:36] because I think that it is fiscally

[1:14:39] responsible and it is a last resort and

[1:14:43] I also support this because of the

[1:14:46] please of our um of our actual police

[1:14:49] force. I think that it's important in

[1:14:51] Family City to support not just the

[1:14:52] families of the residents, but also the

[1:14:55] families of our first responders, and I

[1:14:57] think he made a clear case that this

[1:14:58] would help with that. Thank you very

[1:15:00] much.

[1:15:02] >> All right. Thank you.

[1:15:05] All right, Bradley, did you say that?

[1:15:07] Was it Marian Baxter is next?

[1:15:11] Yes, Marian. We will grant you

[1:15:12] permission for unmuting and turning on

[1:15:14] your camera and your three minutes will

[1:15:15] begin when you begin speaking. Remember

[1:15:17] to state your name and whether you're an

[1:15:18] ORM resident. And if you do not wish to

[1:15:20] comment, simply state. And after Marian,

[1:15:22] we will hear from Troy.

[1:15:28] » Good evening.

[1:15:31] I am Marian Baxter and I have um lived

[1:15:34] in Oram for going on to over 45 years

[1:15:38] now. And I was very appreciative of the

[1:15:42] detailed presentation this evening. And

[1:15:46] I remember years where it was the

[1:15:49] destination

[1:15:51] location was officers and public safety

[1:15:56] um members, the fire department.

[1:16:00] It was a destination to get to ORM as a

[1:16:04] workplace and I really appreciate the

[1:16:07] quality of service that we have had and

[1:16:09] continue to have. I feel like this is a

[1:16:13] very viable way for us to be able to

[1:16:18] help stabilize the needs of our city.

[1:16:20] And to me, the request and the

[1:16:25] deliberation that has gone on this

[1:16:26] evening has been in informative for me

[1:16:31] as a citizen. It's recorded so we can

[1:16:34] review it and get understanding from um

[1:16:38] Mr. Nelson's presentation

[1:16:41] and the

[1:16:43] process that goes on here.

[1:16:46] That is the thing that our taxes I feel

[1:16:49] good about our taxes going poor is the

[1:16:52] needs of this city. What can be

[1:16:54] accomplished and I do certainly

[1:16:57] appreciate each member of this council

[1:17:00] serving in the capacity to represent

[1:17:03] each of us. Your questions have been

[1:17:05] thoughtful. they've been um relevant and

[1:17:09] I appreciate the opportunity that we've

[1:17:12] had a way to

[1:17:14] participate um through technology and

[1:17:17] that we could also be there in person. I

[1:17:20] feel that the this administration has

[1:17:23] continued a long tradition of inviting

[1:17:28] the citizens of Oram to participate and

[1:17:31] I have felt that every department within

[1:17:34] the city of ORM has been very available

[1:17:38] and accessible to each of us. I

[1:17:41] personally feel that our taxes are very

[1:17:44] well managed and I I feel like on the

[1:17:49] community and local level, we can make a

[1:17:53] difference and it matters that we are

[1:17:55] aware of how the budgetary um needs are

[1:17:58] met and how they're reviewed. And I

[1:18:01] appreciate the opportunity to share that

[1:18:04] this evening. Thank you very much.

[1:18:07] >> Thank you.

[1:18:09] All right.

[1:18:11] I think Bradley, you said that there is

[1:18:13] a Troy. Who is who's next?

[1:18:16] >> Yes, that's correct again.

[1:18:17] >> All right, welcome Troy.

[1:18:30] » Oh, you're on me.

[1:18:31] >> You're on mute.

[1:18:33] >> All right.

[1:18:42] Troy, you're good to begin speaking, but

[1:18:44] we can't hear you.

[1:18:49] So, I I don't know

[1:18:51] what [gasps]

[1:18:53] um

[1:18:56] don't know what [snorts]

[1:19:01] good old technology here. Sorry. Um I

[1:19:04] don't Is that

[1:19:15] Hang on just a minute. I'm looking over

[1:19:17] at our at our person who's over here

[1:19:20] doing the text. So, just hang in there

[1:19:21] with us. It does show that you're muted

[1:19:23] right now.

[1:19:24] >> Uh, we'll work with Troy on that, but

[1:19:26] mayor, are you okay if we read in a

[1:19:27] couple of comments that came through the

[1:19:29] portal?

[1:19:30] >> Yes. Okay. So, hang hang tight with us,

[1:19:32] Troy. We're going to get get this

[1:19:34] figured out. So, our city reporter,

[1:19:36] Theresa McKitrich, will read the

[1:19:37] comments that were submitted online

[1:19:39] through our portal that we set up for

[1:19:40] this event.

[1:19:43] » Okay, we had three u that were

[1:19:45] submitted. Um, now I hope I say these

[1:19:48] names right. Lori Thman, she said, "A

[1:19:52] good portion of the traffic and people

[1:19:53] coming through Oram are headed to Provo

[1:19:56] because there is no reasonable I-15

[1:19:58] access for most of Provo. Provo should

[1:20:01] share the cost since you cite more

[1:20:03] people in traffic as the purpose as the

[1:20:06] purpose for the hike. I've been in my

[1:20:08] home over 31 years and near retirement.

[1:20:10] I can't afford costs continually going

[1:20:13] up.

[1:20:16] Um this one is from Brandon Wolf and he

[1:20:20] writes to whom it may concern. I'm

[1:20:23] against the increase in taxes for two

[1:20:25] new officers reasons. Everyone else has

[1:20:28] to manage our budget better in the

[1:20:30] current economic times. I'm aware it is

[1:20:32] a small amount, but still I've had to

[1:20:35] make lots of cuts to spending habits

[1:20:36] lately, and I don't see a city as being

[1:20:40] above having to make do. Second, with

[1:20:43] the increase of flock cameras and ALPRs,

[1:20:46] why are more police needed? Every

[1:20:48] department I've heard from

[1:20:51] Oh, wait, sorry. Every department I've

[1:20:53] heard from other town meetings across

[1:20:56] the country sell these cameras as saving

[1:20:58] the agency funds and helping them fight

[1:21:01] crime. So if you want more cops and more

[1:21:04] public support, remove all ALPRs

[1:21:07] to save money that way. Until then, I'm

[1:21:10] against any increase in anyone's taxes.

[1:21:13] Thank you for your time. And then the

[1:21:15] third one, um, we got a submission. I

[1:21:18] will not be reading it um because it is

[1:21:21] full of vulgarity.

[1:21:31] » All right, thank you. Thank you for

[1:21:33] those comments and I did see the I did

[1:21:36] see that email and

[1:21:39] yes, [laughter]

[1:21:41] anyway, um were you able to get Troy's?

[1:21:46] You got

[1:21:48] Okay.

[1:21:51] And Okay.

[1:21:53] All right. So, you want to go keep going

[1:21:54] here? All right. You're up. Welcome.

[1:22:00] Thank you. I I hope my technology works.

[1:22:03] I'm Chuck Beers and I am a resident of

[1:22:06] the city of Oram and have been for

[1:22:08] nearly 46 years. So, I think I take the

[1:22:11] cake so far. I want to thank you for all

[1:22:14] of your time, for all of your effort. I

[1:22:17] want to thank all of these people for

[1:22:19] their time, their effort, and their

[1:22:20] professionalism.

[1:22:23] The presentations have been eye opening.

[1:22:25] I have known for years that we need more

[1:22:28] public safety.

[1:22:30] However, I didn't know it was as bad as

[1:22:33] it really is. I think that's what uh

[1:22:35] Councilwoman Millet said as well. Um

[1:22:40] I fully support the public safety

[1:22:44] special revenue fund.

[1:22:46] I don't want public safety competing for

[1:22:50] funds with everything else. I don't want

[1:22:53] them to get the leftovers. I want them

[1:22:56] to have their piece of cake, have all of

[1:22:59] it, and not have anybody else take a

[1:23:01] piece of it. This is Family City USA.

[1:23:04] It's been mentioned before. Let's keep

[1:23:07] the families safe. Families of

[1:23:09] everybody. Um,

[1:23:13] it went to sleep.

[1:23:17] We're talking about a such a minimal tax

[1:23:19] increase. It's a happy meal a year. I

[1:23:24] don't know anybody that can't afford to

[1:23:26] give up one happy meal a year to fund

[1:23:29] this.

[1:23:31] I would be happy if you doubled it and I

[1:23:36] would still be happy after you did.

[1:23:40] I didn't really want to say anything

[1:23:41] personal, but I can't help myself at

[1:23:44] this point.

[1:23:47] In a previous life before my retirement,

[1:23:50] I worked in the public schools.

[1:23:54] I went through Mountain View High School

[1:23:56] as an administrator with a bomb threat.

[1:23:59] So happy to have good police officers

[1:24:03] there in minutes.

[1:24:06] And then we also had the fire department

[1:24:09] to help search. [snorts]

[1:24:11] When I was an assistant principal at

[1:24:13] Cany View Jr., we had a device placed.

[1:24:18] Police were there, fire were there, they

[1:24:20] exploded it in the field.

[1:24:23] We need public safety, not just for

[1:24:26] schools, but for everybody else. When I

[1:24:28] worked in another city, there was a

[1:24:31] threat on my life as the principal of

[1:24:32] the school. I didn't know about it. But

[1:24:36] after everything was done, I noticed, as

[1:24:38] was mentioned, you can be encircled

[1:24:40] about. I was encircled about by police

[1:24:44] officers in uniform and plain clothes. I

[1:24:47] never felt safer. We need them in our

[1:24:50] community to encircle us about no matter

[1:24:53] what our circumstances are. I support it

[1:24:56] wholeheartedly.

[1:24:58] >> Thank you.

[1:25:00] All right, I'll go ahead and continue

[1:25:03] here in person. Um, welcome.

[1:25:06] >> Thank you. I'm Michelle Sorenson. I have

[1:25:08] been an ORM resident for 35 years. Um, I

[1:25:12] want to thank um just all of you for the

[1:25:16] time and um service that you give to our

[1:25:18] city and then including our our staff

[1:25:21] too. Um, I when I learned about the

[1:25:25] increase, I took time to ask questions

[1:25:28] and um

[1:25:30] [snorts]

[1:25:31] talked to some city council members and

[1:25:33] also I reached out to um, Chief Robinson

[1:25:36] and um, learned why this really deserves

[1:25:40] a lot of thoughtful consideration and

[1:25:43] um, why I think that this tax proposal

[1:25:46] increase is um, worth uh, doing for our

[1:25:49] city. Um, I learned that the LRB

[1:25:53] financial adviserss to our city have

[1:25:55] been recommending for years that ORM

[1:25:58] diversify its revenue sources and

[1:25:59] dedicate a more stable revenue to the

[1:26:01] essential services like public safety.

[1:26:04] And while ORM's residential population

[1:26:06] may not be growing significantly like we have learned, the number of

[1:26:10] people coming into our city each day has

[1:26:14] um we've seen events at UVU, our

[1:26:16] Orumfest, our farmers market and we love

[1:26:18] these events and we want to feel safe at

[1:26:21] these events and um that's an increased

[1:26:24] demand on our police department. I've

[1:26:26] also learned that um the police

[1:26:28] department has been operating near the

[1:26:30] lower end of the recommended staffing

[1:26:32] over the last few years. And I think

[1:26:34] that there is wisdom in adding officers

[1:26:36] incrementally rather than waiting until

[1:26:39] we're severely understaffed and then

[1:26:41] having to hire five to seven officers at

[1:26:43] once. And we heard from um BJ that that

[1:26:47] would be a real strain on our our force

[1:26:50] too to hire so many and have to train

[1:26:52] them all at once. So um that approach is

[1:26:55] a better workload and training to

[1:26:57] maintain the standards that we expect

[1:27:00] from our department while not

[1:27:01] overstaffing um those already on the

[1:27:03] force. Finally um ORM has only raised

[1:27:07] property tax once um since 1978 and I

[1:27:11] don't think it's unreasonable to say

[1:27:12] that a city should never raise taxes.

[1:27:15] Inflation affects the cost of providing

[1:27:17] everything a city um delivers.

[1:27:20] And the important question is whether

[1:27:22] the increase is tied to a legitimate

[1:27:25] need, whether the amount is reasonable

[1:27:27] and whether the residents understand

[1:27:29] where their money is going. And I think

[1:27:31] that you have done a very good job

[1:27:33] explaining the need and um answering the

[1:27:36] questions as to why this tax increase is

[1:27:38] needed. And so I am here to express

[1:27:40] support for this tax increase for our

[1:27:43] city. Thank you so much.

[1:27:46] >> Thank you.

[1:27:50] Right. Welcome.

[1:27:51] >> Good evening. I'm Sarah Baitman and um I

[1:27:55] live

[1:27:56] uh near ORM Junior High School have for

[1:27:59] 25 years this year. And I just wanted to

[1:28:02] thank all of you elected officials, all

[1:28:05] of your predecessors and all of the ORM

[1:28:07] city staff in that 25 years that I've

[1:28:10] been a resident. I feel that my family

[1:28:13] and I have received incredible value in

[1:28:17] this community. We've felt um grounded.

[1:28:20] We've felt a great sense of welcoming

[1:28:23] and I'm grateful for the value that my

[1:28:26] tax dollars have gotten me and my

[1:28:28] family. So, thank you for that. Um I my

[1:28:32] heart goes out to the chief. I didn't

[1:28:35] realize how burned out his team was. And

[1:28:38] that has inspired me to try to redouble

[1:28:41] my efforts at being a good neighbor in

[1:28:43] my community and try to um

[1:28:46] in invest in the social resilience of

[1:28:48] our community because this is a

[1:28:50] community worth investing in. So, I'm

[1:28:51] grateful to be a part of the community.

[1:28:53] Thank you for your service, your

[1:28:55] dedication, and um I think that there

[1:28:58] have been a lot of um thoughtful

[1:29:00] questions and concerns brought up

[1:29:02] tonight by those who are opposed to this

[1:29:05] tax increase, and I do look forward to

[1:29:07] hearing um the responses from the the

[1:29:10] mayor and council on that and the staff

[1:29:13] on that. I think that that they there

[1:29:15] are some valuable questions here. That

[1:29:17] said, I do um support the tax increase.

[1:29:20] Thank you.

[1:29:21] >> All right. Thank you. All right, that

[1:29:24] was three. So, Pete, are we

[1:29:26] technologically

[1:29:28] ready?

[1:29:30] We have two.

[1:29:31] >> All right, let's go ahead and go.

[1:29:32] Bradley, you're up. Right, we're going

[1:29:34] to give time to Brendan. You will be

[1:29:37] given permission to unmute and turn on

[1:29:38] your camera and um remember to state

[1:29:41] your name and whether you're an ORM

[1:29:42] resident.

[1:29:43] >> Welcome, Brendan.

[1:29:45] >> Hey, how's it going? I'm Brendan BBE.

[1:29:47] I'm an ORM resident. Um I don't think

[1:29:50] the tax increase is large and it's like

[1:29:52] why not? But at the same time I don't

[1:29:54] think the city's really presented any

[1:29:56] data for the need. Um so I have seven

[1:29:59] questions I I [clears throat] would like

[1:30:00] you guys to answer um when you have the

[1:30:02] chance but more so what specific data

[1:30:05] supports the increase in demand for

[1:30:07] services calls calls for service

[1:30:10] response times or case load from 2021

[1:30:13] through 2025? As far as I could tell,

[1:30:16] it's been dropping consistently.

[1:30:19] Um, number two, state figures show ORM

[1:30:21] sworn officers rising and reported

[1:30:23] offenses falling since 2022. How does

[1:30:25] the city reconcile that with rising

[1:30:27] demand? A study was done in 2021 um and

[1:30:31] it found patrol staffing sufficient and

[1:30:33] calls for service declining. What

[1:30:35] changed since 2021?

[1:30:38] Four, ORM has the highest officers per

[1:30:40] capita ratio among Utah County agencies.

[1:30:44] I noticed in the one data point you guys

[1:30:45] listed before, we were comparing

[1:30:47] ourselves to West Valley and St. George.

[1:30:50] Um, but if we look at major Utah County

[1:30:53] cities, we have 35 more officers than

[1:30:56] Lehi with a comparable population.

[1:31:00] Uh, five civilian staffing fell from 38

[1:31:02] to 17 between 2021 and 2024. Is that a

[1:31:06] real reduction or a dispatch attribution

[1:31:08] change or something else? And are sworn

[1:31:10] officers absorbing civilian work? Number

[1:31:13] six, what were the four officers funded

[1:31:15] by the 2009 increase? Were the four

[1:31:18] officers funded by the 2019 increase

[1:31:20] hired and retained and what did the city

[1:31:22] get for it? And number seven, why are

[1:31:25] dispatch export and headcount treated

[1:31:26] extraordinary and on what date will they

[1:31:28] be produced?

[1:31:30] Um, and that's all. Thanks, guys.

[1:31:33] >> All right. Thank you. Um, could you

[1:31:35] would you mind repeating number three? I

[1:31:38] just want to make sure that I that

[1:31:40] [snorts] I I have it down. Thank you.

[1:31:44] >> Uh yes. Uh in 2021 there was a officer

[1:31:48] staffing study done uh by citygate. The

[1:31:51] study found patrol staffing sufficient

[1:31:52] and calls for service were actually

[1:31:54] declining. I'm curious what changed

[1:31:56] since 2021 because as far as the

[1:31:58] research I can do it's only gotten calls

[1:32:02] have gone down, case loads gone down,

[1:32:04] response times have gone down.

[1:32:06] >> All right. Thank you. Appreciate your

[1:32:08] comments

[1:32:09] >> and questions.

[1:32:10] All right.

[1:32:13] Uh Bradley, who we who is online next?

[1:32:16] >> Ruth, we will now give time to you. We

[1:32:19] will give you permission to unmute.

[1:32:22] >> Welcome

[1:32:43] Ruth, we will give you permission to

[1:32:45] unmute

[1:32:55] » here. She's declined.

[1:32:56] >> Yeah, we can move forward, Mayor. It

[1:32:57] doesn't look like Ruth is going to

[1:32:58] respond.

[1:33:00] >> Okay. Did we ever get Troy back? We did

[1:33:03] not. Okay. All right. Thank you. All

[1:33:06] right. Yep. Welcome.

[1:33:13] My name is Kathy Minster and except for

[1:33:16] Councilman Kilpac who was probably born

[1:33:18] in Oram. I moved as a newlywed here 54

[1:33:22] years. I've been an adult for 54 years

[1:33:24] in Oram. I've seen council members and

[1:33:27] mayor the good, the bad, and the ugly.

[1:33:31] Um, I want you to know that if it was

[1:33:35] me, I would want the whole money to go

[1:33:38] to our first responders. They certainly

[1:33:41] were there for me when I came home from

[1:33:43] work and found that my husband wasn't

[1:33:45] still asleep.

[1:33:48] He had passed and they were wonderful.

[1:33:52] Every one of you ran on housing, making

[1:33:56] ORM more affordable, making it possible

[1:33:58] for our kids and our grandkids to afford

[1:34:00] a home. That was the promise. Let me

[1:34:03] walk you through what has happened

[1:34:05] since.

[1:34:07] Earlier this year, you raised impact

[1:34:09] fees on new construction. The cost goes

[1:34:11] directly to the price of every new home

[1:34:14] built in or builders don't eat it. And

[1:34:16] it doesn't stop there. Every existing

[1:34:18] home in this city gets appraised and

[1:34:20] priced against those new comparables.

[1:34:23] When you push the price of new

[1:34:26] construction up, the whole market goes

[1:34:28] up. And that's not a theory. That's how

[1:34:31] comp works. And every realy in re realer

[1:34:37] in this room knows that. Tonight, you're

[1:34:40] about to vote to raise property taxes.

[1:34:42] That hits every homeowner in ORM and it

[1:34:45] hits every renter, too, because the

[1:34:48] landlord doesn't absorb the tax

[1:34:50] increase. They pass it on to the renter.

[1:34:53] So, young families trying to save a down

[1:34:56] payment and paying rent, they're also

[1:34:58] going to get the tax increase. If this

[1:35:00] passes, it will be the second hit on the

[1:35:03] residents in your first year. Your first

[1:35:08] year. Let me be fair and say the honest

[1:35:11] version of your side. $12 a year is not

[1:35:14] what's keeping a young couple out of a

[1:35:16] house in Orm. I know that and nobody is

[1:35:20] claiming that. But here's what does

[1:35:23] price people out. Not just $12 increase,

[1:35:26] but a city that gets a little more

[1:35:28] expensive every single year in every

[1:35:31] direction and never stops. That's um the

[1:35:34] pattern you've established in 8 months.

[1:35:38] And so the second thing you're voting on

[1:35:40] tonight is what blocks the pattern. Move

[1:35:43] the property tax into a fund that

[1:35:45] permanently falls short of its own name.

[1:35:48] And you've given yourself a reason to

[1:35:50] come back for more every year with

[1:35:54] public safety label attached that nobody

[1:35:58] can vote against. Small enough each time

[1:36:01] that complaining sounds petty. Oh, a

[1:36:04] happy meal. That's how you make it

[1:36:08] expensive.

[1:36:10] You campaigned on your promises. You

[1:36:12] haven't kept them all. I challenge you

[1:36:16] to give the money where it's needed and

[1:36:19] forget the property tax.

[1:36:22] Thank you.

[1:36:25] Right. Welcome. Hi, my name is Elanie

[1:36:28] Wilding. I have lived in Oram for uh 22

[1:36:31] years and I can see that there's two

[1:36:35] issues here. I really appreciate what

[1:36:37] the chief said about uh the police

[1:36:40] department. They've got retention

[1:36:42] problems. They've got problems with um

[1:36:45] the cost of overtime both on the

[1:36:47] personal level as well as what it's

[1:36:49] actually costing dollar-wise. And they

[1:36:52] actually need up to 12 or 13 more police

[1:36:55] officers. So that needs to be that needs

[1:36:59] to be addressed but set separate from

[1:37:02] what I want to talk about and that's how

[1:37:04] you govern.

[1:37:06] So I want to talk not about whether or

[1:37:08] should have enough police and fire

[1:37:11] protection. Of course they should. I

[1:37:14] want to talk about the idea of this

[1:37:17] property tax structure change.

[1:37:20] Why would you choose almost right out of

[1:37:23] the gate to change the property track

[1:37:25] tax structure in a way that makes future

[1:37:27] tax increases easier and more automatic?

[1:37:31] So, if you think about what that means, of all the issues residents

[1:37:34] brought to you during the campaign, you

[1:37:37] didn't go to the door saying, "We're

[1:37:38] looking I I I'm I'm in favor of just

[1:37:41] little small little pop, you know, tax

[1:37:43] increases." The first major thing that

[1:37:45] this council is doing together is

[1:37:47] changing the way the property taxes

[1:37:49] actually work. That is not why you were

[1:37:51] elected. You were elected to represent

[1:37:54] us inside the budget. That means reading

[1:37:57] it, questioning it, sitting across from

[1:38:00] staff and saying, "Explain this. Justify

[1:38:02] this. Show me the data. Show me what we

[1:38:05] can cut. Show me why this is necessary."

[1:38:07] It means making the hard choices when

[1:38:10] the city wants more money and sometimes

[1:38:12] taking the heat for saying no. That work

[1:38:14] is difficult. It's slow and it isn't

[1:38:17] popular. But that's governing. And

[1:38:20] that's why I'm concerned about this

[1:38:21] proposal. Taxpayers are not a honeypot.

[1:38:26] If you create a property tax structure

[1:38:28] that builds additional revenue into

[1:38:30] public safety year after year, you

[1:38:32] reduce the need to have the difficult

[1:38:34] conversation every year. Instead of

[1:38:37] asking can we afford this, what are the

[1:38:39] al alternatives and what should we

[1:38:41] prioritize the answer becomes much much

[1:38:44] easier. Raise the tax and that's exactly

[1:38:47] the kind of government growth that

[1:38:49] deserves our scrutiny.

[1:38:51] Staff's job is to identify needs. I

[1:38:54] don't fault them for doing that. Your

[1:38:56] job is to weigh those against the

[1:38:58] residents, what they can afford and what

[1:39:00] you decide that needs to be fulfilled to

[1:39:03] police officers or park upgrades

[1:39:07] within a budget. So if you care for more

[1:39:10] if if the case for more revenue is

[1:39:12] strong, make the case.

[1:39:16] Show us why this amount is necessary and

[1:39:20] how it's going to actually make a

[1:39:21] difference. It sounds to me like it's

[1:39:23] barely going to dent what needs to take

[1:39:25] place, but it's coming from a structure

[1:39:27] that is not okay. So, you have more than

[1:39:31] three years left in this term. Make this

[1:39:32] term where you did the hard work of

[1:39:35] governing, not the term where you made

[1:39:37] it easier for future future councils to

[1:39:39] avoid it. So, thank you. And I say vote

[1:39:42] no on this. There's too many things that

[1:39:44] need to be addressed here.

[1:39:46] >> Thank you.

[1:39:49] » Right. Welcome. Thank you. My name's

[1:39:52] [clears throat] Karen Wignel. I've been

[1:39:54] in my house for I think close to 21

[1:39:57] years now. Um it's the first home I own

[1:40:01] since my divorce and um I'm elderly now

[1:40:06] and facing fixed income and any tax

[1:40:10] increase hurts me. First of all, my

[1:40:13] first question when you all started

[1:40:16] talking was

[1:40:18] as I looked at what you were doing, you

[1:40:20] were taking from the general fund and

[1:40:22] putting it into this ORM public safety

[1:40:25] levy. And that my thought was, well, if

[1:40:29] you do that, then when are you going to

[1:40:30] ask for an increase in the general fund?

[1:40:32] That'll be next year. You'll want money

[1:40:35] for that. So, like everybody has said,

[1:40:38] it just goes on and on and on.

[1:40:42] A question I have is UVU

[1:40:46] um how are how does what they produce

[1:40:50] financially for ORM compute into what

[1:40:54] the officers

[1:40:56] um because that was a big deal last year

[1:40:58] with Charlie Kirk and I think probably

[1:41:01] UVU was not prepared for that

[1:41:04] adequately.

[1:41:06] Um,

[1:41:08] it it was a tragedy, an absolute

[1:41:10] tragedy.

[1:41:11] And [clears throat] I want to say that I

[1:41:13] do appreciate the officers. Um, it's

[1:41:16] been a long time since I've had to had

[1:41:18] somebody at my house, but I know that

[1:41:20] I've called in the middle of the night

[1:41:22] years ago when I thought somebody was in

[1:41:24] my backyard. So, I do appreciate what

[1:41:26] they do. But what I would ask you to do

[1:41:30] is look at this differently so that

[1:41:33] you're not coming back for an increase

[1:41:36] year after year after year and forcing

[1:41:39] the elderly out of their home. The other

[1:41:42] point that I wanted to make, um, I live

[1:41:44] in my home. I'm alone and they said this

[1:41:47] is about $84 per resident. That's not

[1:41:50] true for me. This is twice that because

[1:41:54] I'm alone. So, is there a more equitable

[1:41:56] way

[1:41:58] to

[1:41:59] increase it? If you're going to increase

[1:42:01] it, and I would ask you to put it back

[1:42:02] in the general fund and ask for an

[1:42:04] increase, can you do it more equitably

[1:42:07] for every person that is in the city of

[1:42:10] Oram.

[1:42:12] Um,

[1:42:15] and I think that's it. Thank you. All

[1:42:17] right. Thank you. Oh, there was one

[1:42:20] more. Whoops. Oh. Um, I lived in

[1:42:23] California in the 1970s and 80s when

[1:42:26] property um, values rose there and they came up with a proposition that put

[1:42:33] a limit to that and I have wanted to do

[1:42:36] that here. I I feel the same pressure

[1:42:39] that we felt there. It's outrageous. So,

[1:42:43] anybody who wants to talk to me about

[1:42:44] that, I'd love to talk with you.

[1:42:46] >> Right. Thank you.

[1:42:49] All right.

[1:42:50] Welcome.

[1:42:51] >> Thank you. My name is Evan Thcker. I'm

[1:42:54] an ORM resident for the past 13 years.

[1:42:56] So, I'm a newbie here compared with

[1:42:58] these other commenters mostly. Uh I'm

[1:43:01] grateful that we uh have a a uh society

[1:43:04] in which we can freely speak our minds

[1:43:06] and converse with each other as

[1:43:08] especially when there's disagreements

[1:43:10] about things. So, this is very good. Um

[1:43:13] I I think that the evidence that uh

[1:43:16] additional officers are needed is

[1:43:18] indisputable. I I think the

[1:43:20] presentations given tonight make it very

[1:43:22] clear what the need is. And what what

[1:43:25] you can't do is find some way to say no

[1:43:28] to the police chief and say, "No, we

[1:43:30] can't give you any more officers. We we

[1:43:31] clearly need them." And so you have to

[1:43:34] find a way to give to get them the money

[1:43:37] somehow. Uh so the question on the table

[1:43:39] is can we do it through a property tax

[1:43:41] increase? Um I I have one concern about

[1:43:45] using property taxes for this and that

[1:43:48] is that um as many commenters have

[1:43:50] raised it can be a painful uh increase

[1:43:54] that you have no control over when you

[1:43:56] have a high value property and and no

[1:43:59] income, right? Because

[1:44:01] uh we don't pay our property taxes by

[1:44:04] giving you a piece of the property. We

[1:44:06] have to pay our property taxes out of

[1:44:08] our paycheck, right? And so I have a

[1:44:10] paycheck that's big enough that I don't

[1:44:12] care about a $12 a year increase in

[1:44:15] property tax. It doesn't hurt at all.

[1:44:17] And in fact, I would be more than happy

[1:44:19] to give you 10 times that to fund the needs here. But there are people who

[1:44:25] uh several who have mentioned who are

[1:44:27] retired. They don't have increases in

[1:44:30] their income. If anything, their income

[1:44:31] is lower than it was years ago, but

[1:44:34] their home uh values are increasing. and

[1:44:37] the increases and decreases of our

[1:44:39] property values are outside of our

[1:44:41] personal control. And so they get stuck

[1:44:44] in a case where they're on the hook for

[1:44:46] an amount of money that they they can't

[1:44:48] come up with very easily. So I do think

[1:44:51] there's a problem with using property

[1:44:52] taxes uh because the burden falls

[1:44:55] inequitably on on people because you

[1:44:59] can't

[1:45:00] uh you can't handle the tax if you have

[1:45:03] a high value property and low income.

[1:45:06] So, it's a problem. And I'm, you know, I had hoped to come here and hear some

[1:45:11] people raise specific suggestions for

[1:45:14] alternative ways of raising the money,

[1:45:17] but all I've heard so far is you got to

[1:45:20] find the money some other way. Don't do

[1:45:22] it with a property tax. You got to do

[1:45:24] something else. Um, I I hope that some

[1:45:27] people will have specific ideas of how

[1:45:29] else you could get it. I'll give you my

[1:45:31] idea. I don't know if it's viable or

[1:45:33] not, but um can can you uh allow for

[1:45:39] some raising some money voluntarily from

[1:45:42] the citizens of ORM? For example, I'll

[1:45:44] give you if I'm on the hook for $12 a

[1:45:46] year, I'll give you 120 a year to cover

[1:45:50] my first 10 years or to cover myself

[1:45:53] plus nine other people who can't afford

[1:45:55] it. and and find some way to allow those

[1:45:58] of us who have the means to support the

[1:46:01] need to support it at a higher level and

[1:46:03] the people who don't have the means to

[1:46:05] support it, let them off the hook. Maybe

[1:46:08] there's some ways to do that. Thank you.

[1:46:11] >> All right. Thank you. Um I think we've

[1:46:14] had three. If you hang Pete, do we have

[1:46:16] or Bradley, do we have any more

[1:46:20] >> online?

[1:46:21] >> We may have one comment that we need to

[1:46:22] read in.

[1:46:23] >> Oh, okay. [snorts]

[1:46:28] This comes from Ruth. She didn't want to

[1:46:30] share a comment verbally, but she says,

[1:46:32] quote, "I am opposed to raising the

[1:46:34] property tax. I think we need to look at

[1:46:37] the budget and reallocate the funding to

[1:46:39] where it actually needs to go. We don't

[1:46:41] need a park upgrade."

[1:46:44] All right. Thank you. Thank you, Ruth,

[1:46:46] for for your comment. All right, sir.

[1:46:49] Welcome.

[1:46:51] >> Thank you. My name is Milo Aught. Uh, I

[1:46:54] live by a Sleepy Ridge Golf Course. I

[1:46:56] appreciate the opportunity that we all

[1:46:58] have to um discuss this particular

[1:47:01] issue, the courtesy that was given to

[1:47:03] us, and I sure would have appreciated

[1:47:05] that same courtesy when you be when you

[1:47:08] approved the the top golf right next to

[1:47:12] our houses. Uh, we'll we'll make we'll discuss that at another time.

[1:47:17] I support our police and fire

[1:47:19] departments.

[1:47:21] I I hope that if we need officers that they're hired. Um although I

[1:47:27] probably didn't feel that way two days

[1:47:28] ago when I got a speeding ticket for

[1:47:30] going 24 in a 20 mph zone.

[1:47:35] Uh so maybe maybe less police officers

[1:47:37] might be No, just just kidding.

[1:47:40] Um so I but I do not support raising

[1:47:43] taxes property taxes to do it. ORAM's

[1:47:46] proposed budget is $212 million approxim

[1:47:50] approximately. This is this increase is

[1:47:52] $450,000.

[1:47:54] That is 210 of 1% of the whole budget.

[1:47:57] That is not a funding crisis. That is a

[1:47:59] priority choice. The city is already

[1:48:02] dedicating every dollar of existing

[1:48:04] property tax to a new public safety

[1:48:06] fund. Fire and EMS contract fees are

[1:48:08] going up about $600,000.

[1:48:11] Ambulance revenue is budgeted to rise

[1:48:13] more than $1 million. Public safety is

[1:48:16] not being starved. Look at the rest of

[1:48:18] the budget. Parks and recreation is over

[1:48:21] $13 million. This year's capital program

[1:48:24] includes more than $2 million in park

[1:48:26] amenities, playgrounds, sport courts,

[1:48:29] tennis courts, and a pump track at

[1:48:31] community park. Community development is

[1:48:34] over 8 million. The library is 4.5

[1:48:37] million. You do not have to cut cops or

[1:48:40] firefighters to have to find $450,000.

[1:48:44] phase. You can phase the park project.

[1:48:47] You can freeze a non-essential hire,

[1:48:50] delay one capital item for one year.

[1:48:52] Other cities have hired officers and

[1:48:54] firefight fighters without raising the

[1:48:56] property tax. Florida, Lakeland, Florida

[1:49:00] added 13 police officers, 12

[1:49:02] firefighters.

[1:49:03] They used the growth already in the

[1:49:05] existing tax base. Salt Lake City

[1:49:08] adopted a 2.2 $2 billion budget with no

[1:49:11] property tax increase and still funded

[1:49:13] police and fire pay raises. They use

[1:49:16] stronger than expected revenue and

[1:49:17] existing fund balance, not a new levy.

[1:49:20] The pattern is the same. Treat public

[1:49:22] safety as the first claim on money you

[1:49:25] already collect, not the excuse for a

[1:49:27] new tax. Once a rate goes up, it rarely

[1:49:30] comes down. Seniors and families on

[1:49:32] fixed incomes are already absorbing

[1:49:35] school district ches changes and other

[1:49:37] levies. Please do not add another one

[1:49:41] for two positions that or for positions

[1:49:44] that fit inside a $212

[1:49:47] million budget. Vote no on the taxes.

[1:49:50] Hire the officers on the budget you

[1:49:52] already have. That is fiscal discipline.

[1:49:54] Thank you. All right. Thank you.

[1:49:58] Welcome.

[1:49:58] >> Hi, I'm Alicia Adams. I'm an ORM

[1:50:01] resident. I'm in a unique um situation

[1:50:04] because I'm also in law enforcement. I

[1:50:07] am not an ORUM employee. Um I've been in

[1:50:11] law enforcement for over 30 years. Um I

[1:50:15] totally support this. Um the it when it

[1:50:20] comes down to public safety, um there is

[1:50:23] no cost for that. Um to be on the other

[1:50:27] side of the mic, my history has mostly

[1:50:30] been with dispatch. Um I have seen

[1:50:34] firsthand of the calls that come in

[1:50:36] these officers. ORM does not want to be

[1:50:38] a training ground for um for officers to

[1:50:43] become trained and then hired somewhere

[1:50:45] else laterally if you want to be

[1:50:47] responsible with money. You keep those

[1:50:50] officers that you've trained as well as

[1:50:51] the firefighters and paramedics.

[1:50:54] Um

[1:50:56] my dad was an educator. He um when I

[1:50:58] bought my first home u over 30 years

[1:51:01] ago, I did not have kids, but my dad

[1:51:04] said that um I told him, you know, this

[1:51:08] Alpine School District tax was so high.

[1:51:11] Why am I paying for this? I don't even

[1:51:13] have kids. And he said, everyone should

[1:51:15] be invested in education. Well, I also

[1:51:19] believe everyone should have um with

[1:51:21] public safety should not be negotiable.

[1:51:25] Thank you.

[1:51:26] >> All right. Thank you. Right. Welcome.

[1:51:31] >> Thank you, Mayor Council. My name is

[1:51:32] Zach Adams. I've been a resident of ORM

[1:51:35] for the last 40 years. Um, and full

[1:51:38] disclosure, I've also been in law

[1:51:39] enforcement for the past 23 years. Um, I

[1:51:43] 100% support this tax increase. Um, I I

[1:51:49] work for an agency that is almost 100%

[1:51:52] funded off a special taxing district for

[1:51:55] public safety. it is restricted funds

[1:51:57] that makes the operation work for us. Um

[1:52:02] the other thing that I would encourage

[1:52:04] you to do is recognize this meeting

[1:52:06] every single year to keep your eye on

[1:52:09] inflation inflationary issues.

[1:52:12] ORM will have to be competitive. I I'm

[1:52:15] not talking about adding new officers.

[1:52:16] I'm talking about retaining the quality

[1:52:18] officers that you have right now. That's

[1:52:21] what I think everybody in this room

[1:52:23] would want. We want the best police

[1:52:24] officers keeping our families and our

[1:52:27] communities safe. And so I would

[1:52:28] encourage you to to vote for this in

[1:52:31] favor of it. And then also I would

[1:52:33] encourage you to come back every single

[1:52:34] year and keep your eye on the ball.

[1:52:36] Thank you.

[1:52:37] >> All right. Thank you, Pete. Anybody

[1:52:40] else? All right. Welcome.

[1:52:45] » Hi, I'm Valerie Wares. I've been living

[1:52:48] in Orm for 63 years. I hope I didn't

[1:52:50] outdo somebody and I'm not that old.

[1:52:52] Okay. So, I won't say my age, but um

[1:52:57] there's there's a couple of issues. One

[1:52:59] is the it's like we talk about the

[1:53:03] police and the and I I love the police

[1:53:05] and the firemen.

[1:53:07] They're awesome, but we put that lump it

[1:53:09] in with the the taxes and it's there's

[1:53:13] two separate issues. Um the the city's

[1:53:16] own budget um for public safety is $45.3

[1:53:20] million. property taxes you're

[1:53:22] dedicating to it is about 19% of that.

[1:53:26] The biggest source of that fund for

[1:53:27] isn't the property tax. It's it's 25.4

[1:53:31] million transferred out of the general

[1:53:32] fund. It's which is 56%.

[1:53:36] Um that transfer isn't restricted. It

[1:53:38] isn't advertised. It requires no notice,

[1:53:40] no hearing. Um it sits entirely to the

[1:53:44] council's discretion every single year.

[1:53:46] The other part of that is the fund will

[1:53:49] never cover what the police and fire um

[1:53:51] cost. It isn't built to 19% today

[1:53:54] doesn't qualify or doesn't get better.

[1:53:58] Which means every year from here forward

[1:54:00] someone's going to stand here like I'm

[1:54:01] standing and say truthfully the public

[1:54:03] safety fund doesn't cover public safety

[1:54:05] and we need more. Um it's never um and

[1:54:11] it never has to ask for much. Nobody

[1:54:13] raises your taxes 50% in one night. Um

[1:54:16] you'd throw them out. The um you raise

[1:54:19] it 7% this year and we get a couple of

[1:54:23] officers and then next year you add

[1:54:25] another 7% because nobody's going to

[1:54:28] complain about raising it a little bit

[1:54:30] every year. Um and I think that gets to

[1:54:34] be unreasonable at 20 years. It's a huge

[1:54:36] difference in tax bill. Um now think

[1:54:38] about what it does to the next resident

[1:54:40] who shows up here with a hard question.

[1:54:42] not questioning the budget anymore.

[1:54:44] She's questioning the police. And you

[1:54:46] build a structure where the only way to

[1:54:49] ask whether the city is being managed

[1:54:51] well is to look if is to look like

[1:54:53] you're against the men and women who run

[1:54:55] into burning buildings. And I had a

[1:54:57] whole group of them uh several months

[1:54:59] ago. Um which wasn't fun, but no one got

[1:55:04] hurt. Well, one person did, but um I'm

[1:55:06] not against them. I want them to have

[1:55:08] their funding. I want them to have the

[1:55:10] number of people they need. not be cut,

[1:55:14] but I don't want them being used as a

[1:55:16] shield for for a tax mechanism. The

[1:55:19] structure protects 19% of their budget

[1:55:21] and leaves 56 56% floating. If a stable

[1:55:25] funding for these departments was really

[1:55:27] the goal, then it's not how you should

[1:55:29] build it. Fund them through real budget

[1:55:31] decisions, not in the open every year or

[1:55:34] out in the open every year on the

[1:55:36] merits. They've earned that. what they

[1:55:38] haven't earned is being somebody's

[1:55:40] talking point every August. Thank you.

[1:55:44] >> Thank you.

[1:55:45] All right. Welcome.

[1:55:50] » Thank you,

[1:55:52] mayor, members of the council. I think

[1:55:55] you know my name is Dave Young. I live

[1:55:57] in ORM and I served as your mayor for

[1:55:59] four years. I didn't have any intention

[1:56:02] of coming tonight. I haven't been to a

[1:56:04] meeting since I left office, but people

[1:56:06] have been asking me relentlessly what I

[1:56:08] think. And I'd rather say it to your

[1:56:09] faces than just say it around town.

[1:56:12] To be clear, I'm not here about $12.

[1:56:15] That's ridiculous.

[1:56:17] $450,000 in a budget of 177 million is a

[1:56:20] rounding error. It's teeny. Any council

[1:56:23] that wants to fund two officers can find

[1:56:25] that money in an afternoon.

[1:56:28] I listen to the chief. I believe him. I

[1:56:31] consider him a good friend. 18,000 hours

[1:56:34] of forced overtime is a real problem.

[1:56:37] Federal grants running out is a real

[1:56:40] problem. Funded the officers. Fund them.

[1:56:44] My point is that a city with $177

[1:56:46] million budget did not need to

[1:56:48] restructure its property tax to do so.

[1:56:51] That's what I'm here about. This new

[1:56:53] special fund. You've already voted to

[1:56:55] create it. I'm asking you to reverse

[1:56:57] that vote. Here's why. During my four

[1:57:00] years, this city have built one of the

[1:57:02] best fire departments in the state, made

[1:57:04] real improvements to our police

[1:57:05] department, and put more than hund00

[1:57:07] million in new city infrastructure, all

[1:57:10] but through the worst inflation this

[1:57:11] country has seen in 40 years without

[1:57:13] raising taxes once. There was no special

[1:57:16] fund. Nobody needed one. So, when the

[1:57:20] city tells you it needs a dedicated fund

[1:57:22] to take care of the police and fire,

[1:57:24] respectfully, I don't believe that's

[1:57:26] true. And the people in this room who

[1:57:28] are here know it isn't true. It's not

[1:57:31] theory. We proved it in this building

[1:57:34] with this budget with the same staff

[1:57:36] sitting here tonight. What this fund

[1:57:38] actually does is hand the city a

[1:57:40] permanent reason to raise taxes with a

[1:57:43] label nobody's willing to vote against.

[1:57:45] That fund will never cover what police

[1:57:47] and fire cost. It isn't built to. So

[1:57:49] every year from now on, someone can

[1:57:51] stand right here where I'm standing and

[1:57:52] truthfully say the public safety fund

[1:57:55] doesn't cover public safety, so we need

[1:57:57] more. That's not a budget. That's a

[1:58:01] one-way street. And we've all watched

[1:58:04] what that how that looks in other

[1:58:05] places. Ask how a school district raised

[1:58:08] taxes 8% a year for 20 years while the

[1:58:11] cost of living only went up two. Ask how

[1:58:13] a county passed a 47% tax increase

[1:58:15] without blinking. That doesn't come from

[1:58:18] one bad vote. That comes from a culture

[1:58:20] where raising taxes is the first answer

[1:58:23] instead of the last one. ORM has never

[1:58:25] been that city. That isn't luck. Every

[1:58:28] spring, this council meets and decides

[1:58:30] whether to raise taxes. This new fund

[1:58:32] takes that decision away. You start with

[1:58:35] 7% for two officers, then 7% the next

[1:58:38] year, then seven again, and 20 years

[1:58:41] later, just like the school district,

[1:58:43] you wind up in a place you don't want to

[1:58:45] be. I don't think most of you set out to

[1:58:48] do this.

[1:58:50] It's easy. That's an easy thing to miss

[1:58:53] when the number in front of you is

[1:58:54] small, $12 a month. It's happened to me.

[1:58:58] But you can fix it tonight. Rescend the

[1:59:01] new fund. Put property tax back in the

[1:59:03] general fund where it has been since the

[1:59:05] beginning of ORUM and fund the police

[1:59:07] and fire the way this city always has by

[1:59:10] making them a priority out in the open.

[1:59:13] As I always said when I was here, just

[1:59:15] do the right thing for the right reason.

[1:59:17] [clears throat] Thank you.

[1:59:18] >> Thank you.

[1:59:20] All right. Welcome.

[1:59:25] » Hi, my name's Hans Verkler. Um, I'm a

[1:59:27] resident here and uh, like pretty much

[1:59:31] every other commenter before me, I'm

[1:59:34] want to make it clear I'm not against

[1:59:36] getting the police more funding. It um,

[1:59:38] that that was pretty eloquently put by

[1:59:41] the by the chief. Um,

[1:59:44] but I am very against putting it into

[1:59:47] property taxes. And for the same, again,

[1:59:50] to echo a lot of the other people that

[1:59:51] have already talked, it's it's not the

[1:59:54] $12, it's the principal. Um, if the

[1:59:58] police need more funding, you know, pay

[2:00:00] them first out of the entire budget and

[2:00:02] then let the other funds trickle down as

[2:00:04] they may. And if we need to, you know,

[2:00:07] go without some of the amenities that we

[2:00:10] currently enjoy, um, I'm fine with that.

[2:00:13] And I've talked to a lot of other people

[2:00:14] in my own neighborhood, um, just north

[2:00:16] of the Sarah, and they feel the same.

[2:00:19] Um, I also, if I'm not mistaken, I it

[2:00:23] seems like most of the funding or at

[2:00:24] least a lot of the funding comes from

[2:00:26] sales tax uh just overall for the city

[2:00:28] and and um and so I think that the point

[2:00:31] hasn't been made that uh or I guess the

[2:00:35] point has been implied that there hasn't

[2:00:37] been any like increase in funding that

[2:00:39] can be used for, you know, law

[2:00:40] enforcement or firefighting and stuff.

[2:00:42] But if most of the funding or at least a

[2:00:44] large portion of it is coming from sales

[2:00:46] tax that is directly going to increase

[2:00:49] with inflation which we've all seen. So

[2:00:51] I you know I want to make that little

[2:00:53] point um that you know funding has been

[2:00:57] going up as uh as inflation has. And

[2:01:01] then I I would say that um

[2:01:06] to keep

[2:01:08] property taxes down is not just helpful

[2:01:10] for the elderly in the community who

[2:01:12] are, you know, getting priced out of

[2:01:13] their own homes, but it's also very uh

[2:01:16] applicable to young homeowners. Um I got

[2:01:19] a bunch of friends who are they feel

[2:01:22] totally priced out because prices are

[2:01:24] high, interest is high, and then when

[2:01:27] property taxes add on to that, that's

[2:01:29] that just makes it worse. And so again,

[2:01:31] it's it's not don't give the police more

[2:01:34] funding, it's where does it come from

[2:01:36] that I think is the key issue. And um if

[2:01:39] there's if there's really no other place

[2:01:42] that funding can be squeezed out of that

[2:01:44] isn't life or death, which um I I feel

[2:01:47] like there is, but I you know, I haven't

[2:01:48] seen the sheets, so maybe there's not.

[2:01:50] But if there really wasn't, I would

[2:01:52] rather have an increase in sales tax,

[2:01:54] for example, because then at least it's

[2:01:56] uh there's some agency involved in in

[2:01:59] that money leaving your pocket as

[2:02:01] opposed to property taxes, which they

[2:02:03] just get taken whether you like it or

[2:02:04] not. Doesn't matter your age or how long

[2:02:07] you've been there, anything like that.

[2:02:08] So, um yeah, let's let's see if we can

[2:02:12] get it from somewhere else. Hopefully,

[2:02:15] we can. And I'd like to see the receipts

[2:02:17] on that. And if you can't, don't put it

[2:02:19] in property taxes, maybe sales tax. At

[2:02:22] least then you'd have to show the

[2:02:23] receipts to everybody cuz everybody's

[2:02:25] directly paying sales tax. And so they I

[2:02:27] think it would keep it even more

[2:02:29] transparent.

[2:02:31] >> Thank you.

[2:02:32] >> All right. Thank you.

[2:02:34] All right. Welcome.

[2:02:37] This is one of my former city council

[2:02:39] colleagues.

[2:02:40] >> Yeah. I used to sit right there and she

[2:02:45] sat right there. for my first

[2:02:48] >> Yeah, we had a good time.

[2:02:50] >> Yeah, she used to say, "This is what's

[2:02:51] happening."

[2:02:53] Anyway, she helped me. Uh, yeah. I

[2:02:56] always bring back

[2:02:57] >> state your name for the record.

[2:02:58] >> Oh, I'm H Anderson, and I've been here

[2:03:01] 58 years.

[2:03:03] My dad brought me here when I was 10.

[2:03:07] I like policemen, too. When I first

[2:03:09] graduated from college, the first job I

[2:03:11] applied for was to be a policeman in a

[2:03:13] town in southern Utah County.

[2:03:16] And the mayor, he uh

[2:03:20] said, "I'm not going to hire you." He

[2:03:22] said, "You scored real high on the

[2:03:23] tests,

[2:03:25] but you're skinny." He said, "We got

[2:03:27] problems around here. I'd make it now. I

[2:03:29] got plenty of weight to put." But I met

[2:03:32] the other guy I did buy, and he was

[2:03:33] twice my size, so that was that was

[2:03:35] good.

[2:03:37] Uh the most exciting thing that happened

[2:03:39] to me when I was on the city council was

[2:03:42] uh

[2:03:44] the city wanted to raise taxes

[2:03:47] uh 48% which was uh 3,44

[2:03:52] 3,345,000

[2:03:55] and I decided to try and stop that and

[2:03:59] it was a 61 vote to begin with and then

[2:04:01] it they argued back and forth. There

[2:04:04] were so many mad people here, a lot more

[2:04:05] than what you've got here. But they saw

[2:04:08] the people that were there and then the

[2:04:09] mayor said, "Well, how about if we just

[2:04:11] do half?" And so they lowered it down to

[2:04:13] half and and still I said, "No."

[2:04:17] But anyway, with a whole lot of Worm

[2:04:20] residents signing a petition, we did

[2:04:23] away with it and it was 3,345,000.

[2:04:28] And I added that up the other day when I

[2:04:30] was thinking of coming down here and

[2:04:31] saying something. You know, that's over

[2:04:33] $50 million. It's over $50 million that

[2:04:37] ORM citizens kept that ORM city didn't

[2:04:40] get. And you know what? The city's still

[2:04:42] here.

[2:04:44] In fact, we're doing great. Spent 37

[2:04:46] million on a new uh city building.

[2:04:53] I was looking in the records, balance

[2:04:55] sheets and so forth for Orm City and uh

[2:04:59] I was trying to find out how much was in

[2:05:01] the rainy day fund and they said, "Well,

[2:05:03] ORM doesn't have a rainy day fund."

[2:05:05] this, you know, came up on the computer.

[2:05:07] And anyway, uh, Fitch ratings said that

[2:05:11] we had $33 million in [snorts] our

[2:05:14] unrestricted

[2:05:17] general fund reserves

[2:05:20] and S&P

[2:05:23] said that we had this AAA reading

[2:05:25] because we had all this money in

[2:05:26] savings.

[2:05:29] And so what I would suggest you do is

[2:05:31] instead of adding more to your reserves,

[2:05:34] in fact it even mentioned Brandon that

[2:05:36] he had to give the state a or transfer

[2:05:40] money out of one to another fund

[2:05:44] uh so that we were not above the reserve

[2:05:47] limit.

[2:05:49] But anyway, uh you've got the money.

[2:05:54] You've got a lot more than 450,000.

[2:05:57] Uh

[2:05:59] S&P and Fitz say you've got over 33

[2:06:01] million. I was I got up 6:30 and I got

[2:06:04] back to May 31st,

[2:06:06] >> Mr.

[2:06:06] >> But anyway, you can make a whole lot of

[2:06:08] citizens happy that are here if you just

[2:06:12] don't have as much money in savings.

[2:06:14] >> You don't need that much. I love

[2:06:17] savings, too. I got a big savings

[2:06:18] account, but

[2:06:20] I don't have to share with these people,

[2:06:22] but you do. You do. [laughter and gasps]

[2:06:25] >> All right. Thank you. All right, Pete.

[2:06:28] Do we have anyone online?

[2:06:31] All right. This is the last call for

[2:06:33] anyone who would like to come and speak

[2:06:36] before I close the public hearing.

[2:06:41] [sighs and gasps]

[2:06:42] All right. Well, I will go ahead then

[2:06:45] and clo

[2:06:48] close the public hearing

[2:06:50] and

[2:06:52] all right council.

[2:06:54] I was taking notes but

[2:06:57] there's six of us taking notes. I want

[2:06:59] to make sure that we start going through

[2:07:01] the questions that were asked. I marked some questions. If somebody

[2:07:06] would like to start, if someone else

[2:07:08] would like to start with questions that really stood out to you and I will

[2:07:13] mark them off here just I just want to

[2:07:14] make sure that we cover the the

[2:07:16] questions that were that were asked.

[2:07:19] Um is someone Oh, okay. Council member,

[2:07:22] >> I'll start I'll start with a question

[2:07:25] that was brought up right off the bat

[2:07:27] and the property tax increase. So when

[2:07:30] we get our property tax notice from the

[2:07:32] county and we see that how much of that

[2:07:34] is actually ORUM versus county school

[2:07:38] district and other other pieces of that

[2:07:41] pie

[2:07:42] >> as far as the total for ORM.

[2:07:45] >> Yes,

[2:07:46] >> as mentioned about 14%.

[2:07:49] The total of of the average homes tax

[2:07:51] bill.

[2:07:53] >> Okay. So, so when we get that tax

[2:07:55] notice, that money is not all going to

[2:07:57] ORM taxes, but 14% of that is for ORM.

[2:08:02] Correct. Thank you.

[2:08:06] » All right. Um, anybody else? And I've

[2:08:09] got some questions that I'm going to

[2:08:10] ask. One of the one of the themes that

[2:08:13] came out uh

[2:08:16] was

[2:08:18] the the amount of money that is in in

[2:08:22] other accounts and for other purposes.

[2:08:25] Uh I was just wondering if you if we

[2:08:29] could go I guess same I don't know it

[2:08:30] was Bren or Brandon talk about the different the funding

[2:08:36] sources how some of them I know it's my

[2:08:38] understanding that some of them we can't

[2:08:41] they're they're restricted

[2:08:43] others are not and we do have we do have

[2:08:47] range so I want to know that I want to

[2:08:48] know about the amount that we have in

[2:08:49] our um cash reserves

[2:08:52] um from what Mr. Anderson said, "And

[2:08:56] what in the budget process t talk to us about how how we got to where

[2:09:06] this property tax increase was

[2:09:08] suggested. It sounds like it went

[2:09:11] through the budget. The department heads

[2:09:13] went through the budget and very

[2:09:14] carefully scrutinized. I know that I've

[2:09:16] looked at things in the budget, but

[2:09:18] anyway, I I'm just going to give you the

[2:09:20] opportunity to to address some of those

[2:09:22] issues, those common themes.

[2:09:25] I'll attempt to give an answer and and

[2:09:27] of course, I'll look to Brandon and some

[2:09:30] of our excellent staff to help fill in

[2:09:32] any blanks. Um uh but first of all, I I

[2:09:37] also would be remiss. Usually you hear

[2:09:39] me uh share compliments and

[2:09:41] appreciation, recognition for our staff.

[2:09:43] And so I do I do absolutely have to

[2:09:46] confirm and state that Chief Robinson

[2:09:49] and our PD staff really are the best. We

[2:09:51] do expect them to be empathetic and

[2:09:54] customer serviceoriented

[2:09:56] while enforcing difficult hard laws and

[2:10:01] no one does it better than them. Um, in

[2:10:04] terms of budgeting process, some of the

[2:10:06] principles we use are a we want to take

[2:10:08] a multi-pronged approach to revenues and

[2:10:12] a multi-year approach. And so that uh

[2:10:17] we're not um uh putting uh the burden of

[2:10:21] any increases on one partic particular

[2:10:24] year or group of residents. In that way,

[2:10:28] we also want to show that we're doing

[2:10:29] our very best and and cutting uh

[2:10:32] wherever we can and always trying to

[2:10:33] find efficiencies.

[2:10:35] Um but uh at the same time uh we want to

[2:10:40] ensure effectiveness as well. And so in

[2:10:43] trying to balance efficiency and

[2:10:45] effectiveness, that's optimization. So, um uh certainly we uh our public

[2:10:52] safety and our staff is is committed to taking that kind of approach to to

[2:10:58] budgeting. Um in terms of specific uh

[2:11:02] cuts

[2:11:04] um that uh uh have been considered um in

[2:11:09] particular we've done uh specifically as

[2:11:12] it's related to public safety. We've

[2:11:15] looked at restructuring our police

[2:11:17] records group. So these are our civilian

[2:11:19] nonsworn uh police department

[2:11:23] employees. Um and uh we've also uh done

[2:11:28] some

[2:11:28] >> [snorts]

[2:11:28] >> uh restructuring and and dividing of

[2:11:31] labor as it relates to risk management

[2:11:34] or uh uh our staff that's focused on

[2:11:37] trying to prevent uh liability and

[2:11:39] accidents and that sort of thing. Um at the same time probably one little

[2:11:45] clarification about property tax in

[2:11:47] Utah. it does not go up automatically

[2:11:51] with uh the value of your home. It

[2:11:55] actually uh the revenue stays the same.

[2:11:58] So that means we get a natural cut every

[2:12:00] year because we lose purchasing power.

[2:12:04] Uh so the only way other than a tax

[2:12:07] increase for our property tax revenue to

[2:12:09] go up is with new growth. So if a new

[2:12:13] building comes in, then we would start

[2:12:16] to get property tax from that. But on

[2:12:18] existing buildings,

[2:12:20] uh, property tax does not go up with the

[2:12:23] value of the house.

[2:12:25] >> And then this is this is going to be

[2:12:27] kind of a correlary to that. Um, we had

[2:12:29] a gentleman talk about how the value of

[2:12:32] the property continues to rise and so

[2:12:36] that's where the property tax could do

[2:12:38] you could you address that how how the

[2:12:40] an increase in property value does not

[2:12:43] and how the whole thing works is just so

[2:12:46] because my property taxes have gone up a

[2:12:48] ton since I bought my home in 1991

[2:12:52] and so and it's an issue that that I it

[2:12:57] frustrates me how how it's calcul

[2:12:58] related and all that stuff. But anyway,

[2:13:00] if you can explain that.

[2:13:03] >> So, any taxing entity has to do a has to

[2:13:08] request and approve a tax increase uh in

[2:13:12] order for the tax revenue to go up. So,

[2:13:16] other taxing entities

[2:13:18] have done increases over over the years

[2:13:21] as it relates to property tax. Um,

[2:13:26] if I'm summarizing how it happens,

[2:13:30] uh, the county looks at all of the tax

[2:13:32] assessed value of all the properties in the county and they look at what is a

[2:13:39] new or expanded building and that they

[2:13:43] begin to tax that. But anything that was

[2:13:48] an existing property

[2:13:51] um and that value goes up then the tax

[2:13:54] rate the mill rate comes down the same

[2:13:58] degree that the tax value of existing

[2:14:01] properties went up. So Brandon could

[2:14:04] show you and and uh you may recall from

[2:14:07] uh one of the presentations of uh Laura

[2:14:10] Lewis with with LRB. Um they showed that

[2:14:13] over time our tax rate has gone down for

[2:14:17] ORM specifically.

[2:14:20] Um uh but we've uh but our revenue has

[2:14:25] stayed the same because of that off

[2:14:28] offset between tax value and tax rate.

[2:14:36] Okay, so like we've talked about, we're

[2:14:38] not solving for the equal on the right

[2:14:40] side of the equal sign. That's

[2:14:41] determined by the county. This says this

[2:14:43] is how much money this is the value. And

[2:14:47] so you back into that with the tax rate

[2:14:50] and then tax rate goes down because we

[2:14:52] keep that we keep that revenue the same

[2:14:57] unless we go ahead and do what we're

[2:14:59] doing tonight at least considering

[2:15:01] tonight in having this type truth and

[2:15:03] taxation hearing.

[2:15:05] >> Correct. Brandon, is there any other way

[2:15:07] you would explain or summarize that?

[2:15:11] >> Nope. That's pretty much it.

[2:15:14] I would also say that if there uh we as

[2:15:19] cities and local government agencies we

[2:15:22] are limited in what taxes and revenues

[2:15:27] we can increase or charge. So, uh, I

[2:15:32] would love to be able to, uh, look at

[2:15:35] and consider a a or propose, for

[2:15:39] example, a sales tax increase instead of

[2:15:42] a property tax increase. Uh, because

[2:15:45] then all of the people who come from

[2:15:47] outside of the city and shop here, then

[2:15:48] they would be helping to pay for uh, our

[2:15:51] services. But state doesn't allow for

[2:15:54] that method of tax increase uh, for us.

[2:15:58] Um, the only the only method of tax

[2:16:02] increase that is left for us cities is a

[2:16:05] property tax increase possibility.

[2:16:10] >> So, mayor,

[2:16:11] >> thank you. I've got more questions, but

[2:16:12] I want to ask council if do you want

[2:16:14] have any questions that you want to

[2:16:17] >> Oh, you've got

[2:16:18] >> So, I just wanted to mention, so as Bren

[2:16:20] said, the maximum allowable state uh

[2:16:23] sales tax that the state allows us, we

[2:16:26] charge that. So we don't have the

[2:16:28] ability to raise that franchise tax, all

[2:16:31] of our franchise taxes state maximum. We

[2:16:34] don't have an ability to raise those.

[2:16:35] are set. So that the and property

[2:16:39] tax being the third tax that we have

[2:16:41] some ability to do something about. And

[2:16:43] that is part of the reason why we're

[2:16:45] here. Part of the other reason is our

[2:16:47] sales taxes which we've lived off of

[2:16:49] indefinitely for plus 40 plus years have

[2:16:53] now continue in 2023.

[2:16:58] It was a.3% increase

[2:17:01] in 2024 was a negative 1% increase.

[2:17:06] Those are not

[2:17:08] giving us any additional dollars

[2:17:12] to work with in a in as mentioned in an

[2:17:15] inflationary environment. So we would

[2:17:18] for those people who think oh well the

[2:17:20] city is receiving the benefit of that

[2:17:22] inflation we are not.

[2:17:26] it's lower than the inflationary amount.

[2:17:29] How we have done it in the past is we

[2:17:32] have been, if you will, the king of

[2:17:34] sales tax and so we've lived off of that

[2:17:37] sales tax. That is no longer the case.

[2:17:40] >> Okay.

[2:17:40] >> And I just wanted to make that clear.

[2:17:41] >> Thank you.

[2:17:42] >> And while I've got you here, um, what is

[2:17:44] our our fund balance? What tell me about

[2:17:47] well what what was referred to as the

[2:17:49] rainy day fund.

[2:17:50] So the as mentioned that is the the fund

[2:17:53] balance is approximately $30 million.

[2:17:56] Now the state and the standard uh rate

[2:18:00] setters when we calculate fund balance

[2:18:04] they do not take into account assign

[2:18:06] what we refer to as assigned fund

[2:18:07] balance which is items that we already

[2:18:11] have open purchase orders for but have

[2:18:13] not completed yet. So, we're we're

[2:18:15] intending to buy it, but we haven't

[2:18:17] actually been able to fund it yet

[2:18:19] because we haven't either received the

[2:18:20] product or the service or whatever it

[2:18:21] may be. We also have um many capital

[2:18:25] projects that same process. We've

[2:18:27] identified where we're going to spend

[2:18:28] those funds, but we have yet to either

[2:18:31] start the project or spend all of that

[2:18:33] money on that project.

[2:18:35] those do not get accounted for as part

[2:18:39] of that 30 million and and reaching our

[2:18:42] ceiling that the state has set. So if

[2:18:45] you want to count what we actually have

[2:18:47] available to us, it's more in the $14

[2:18:49] million neighborhood. We can all and

[2:18:52] that's around 20%.

[2:18:54] So we can all argue that the floor that

[2:18:57] the state allows is 5%.

[2:19:00] So we have a you know a 15 and it

[2:19:02] fluctuates. So, we have a 15 10 to 15%

[2:19:07] uh room that we have to operate within a

[2:19:10] uh we'll call it a rainy day fund even

[2:19:13] though that's it's not officially called

[2:19:14] that.

[2:19:15] >> Um so, we can all argue about well what

[2:19:17] is the proper amount for that that money

[2:19:20] to and what should it where should it

[2:19:21] be? Well, I can tell you when the re but

[2:19:23] and I hate to bring up the 2008

[2:19:25] recession, but we got to 6%.

[2:19:29] If if the economy hadn't turned around

[2:19:31] when it did, we would have not had we

[2:19:35] would have fell below that ceiling. That

[2:19:37] is why the state raised the at that time

[2:19:40] the maximum was 18%. That is why they

[2:19:43] raised it

[2:19:45] three times since that point. So that

[2:19:49] cities had the capability to withstand

[2:19:51] such an event.

[2:19:53] God forbid we have a natural disaster.

[2:19:56] Everybody thinks a FEMA is going to come

[2:19:58] save the day or the state's going to

[2:19:59] come save the day. Well, they they may

[2:20:01] come help, but guess what? You need

[2:20:03] immediately. You need funds available

[2:20:05] immediately to be able to handle that.

[2:20:07] You'll get reimbursed at some point for

[2:20:10] if not all of that, most of it. So, but

[2:20:13] we again we can all argue about what is

[2:20:15] the proper amount that needs to be there

[2:20:17] for that.

[2:20:18] >> Okay. Thank you. Um I'm and I neglected

[2:20:21] to do this after the closing of the

[2:20:22] public hearing. I I want to thank all of

[2:20:24] you for coming. What I'm what I'm

[2:20:27] hearing in tonight is that there's no argument about the

[2:20:32] destination about having a strong public

[2:20:35] safety [gasps]

[2:20:37] uh uh program here and departments and

[2:20:39] here in the city. It's how do we get

[2:20:42] there is and I hope that's a a very

[2:20:45] short synopsis of of what I see. So I

[2:20:48] hope I hope you too you gentlemen and your your teams feel that the

[2:20:52] support of the community for for the

[2:20:55] service that you do. [gasps] Um it seems

[2:20:58] the discussion has been centering on a

[2:21:01] couple of different things. One is the

[2:21:05] fund the idea of a public safety fund.

[2:21:10] What that would look like? What would

[2:21:11] that look like going forward? Is it

[2:21:13] something that's going to be are we

[2:21:15] going to be doing these every year? Is

[2:21:17] this something or why why is it that

[2:21:20] it's why are we doing a separate fund?

[2:21:24] And so that the the the one vehicle of

[2:21:27] that and then also about the actual

[2:21:30] dollar amount. What is the the $450,000?

[2:21:36] Does it make sense to increase property

[2:21:38] taxes? Have we as a council and staff

[2:21:41] done our homework to look at and examine

[2:21:43] other other ways to do funding to fund

[2:21:47] this without um going forward with a a

[2:21:52] proposal for a property tax increase. So

[2:21:54] I I see those as different issues. So

[2:21:56] council as we discuss that I I would

[2:21:59] like to talk about those. I also have

[2:22:02] some other questions that that

[2:22:03] individuals had here. We had Mr. BB he

[2:22:06] had a lot of questions um chief about what the data supports the service

[2:22:12] response times

[2:22:14] uh just the different studies that have

[2:22:17] hap I don't know if you want to address

[2:22:19] any any of the uh you know the highest

[2:22:22] officer number of officers per capita in

[2:22:23] Utah county and what's happened with the

[2:22:26] four you know when we did the four off

[2:22:27] had the hired the four officers so if

[2:22:29] you want to take a minute and address

[2:22:31] some of the questions that Mr. BB asked.

[2:22:34] I'd appreciate it.

[2:22:36] >> You may have to repeat a few of those.

[2:22:38] I'll go with the ones I can remember.

[2:22:40] >> And council, you're going to have to

[2:22:41] help me here, too, because I I want to

[2:22:43] make sure I have what uh what does the

[2:22:45] data support? That was my first one. Is

[2:22:47] that what you had about the response

[2:22:49] times and the service calls?

[2:22:52] >> So, our about our 10-year average of

[2:22:54] calls per year is right around 60,000.

[2:22:58] Last year it was 54 or just under

[2:23:02] 55,000. Uh the year before that it was

[2:23:05] 65,000. The year before that 55,000. And

[2:23:09] so why do they fluctuate?

[2:23:12] I don't know. I don't have a uh metric

[2:23:17] to show you why we have uh certain calls

[2:23:22] at certain times a day. Um, I don't have

[2:23:25] an answer for you as to why. Um,

[2:23:30] our average is right around over the

[2:23:33] last 5 years, right around where we're

[2:23:34] at last year in 2025 was 55,000.

[2:23:38] Um, in 20 look around 2017, 2019, we

[2:23:43] were up around 76,000.

[2:23:46] Back then, we created a case number for

[2:23:48] everything we did. And we had officers

[2:23:51] do a little

[2:23:53] sentence and a case number for

[2:23:55] everything we did. We stopped doing that

[2:23:59] took too much time and so trimming

[2:24:04] our

[2:24:05] operations as to why we were doing that

[2:24:07] and how we were doing that. So we

[2:24:10] started creating what like every time a call comes into dispatch creates a CAD

[2:24:14] number. Every CAD number doesn't always

[2:24:17] get a case number. Um, so there were

[2:24:20] some years in there where it's hard to

[2:24:22] go back and then mine that data back out

[2:24:24] to figure out, okay, how many are we

[2:24:26] actually responding to? Um, so I would

[2:24:30] say our our our calls are

[2:24:35] the the same in the sense of uh that

[2:24:40] they they have I mean our we were 55,000

[2:24:44] this this year or 2025 2024 was 65,000

[2:24:48] and the year before that they were back

[2:24:49] down to where we were. So

[2:24:52] >> it just it varies. So it varies

[2:24:53] >> where they going to be next year. I

[2:24:55] don't know.

[2:24:55] >> No, no. So I think that goes as I've

[2:24:57] been was doing my research and I visited

[2:24:59] with you. It sounds like that while the number of calls has remained

[2:25:05] I want to say just kind of there or down

[2:25:09] but it's what what other types of work

[2:25:12] have your department has your department

[2:25:14] done? I'm thinking right the outreach uh

[2:25:17] we have the mental health unit now we

[2:25:19] have the ex uh this the expectation of

[2:25:22] the school resource officers. What what

[2:25:24] is it that's maybe the data doesn't I

[2:25:27] don't data plur I should ask council

[2:25:29] member makum because he's he's an

[2:25:31] academic guy is data what does a plural

[2:25:34] singular what is it

[2:25:38] data is plural

[2:25:40] does it show

[2:25:43] so uh it doesn't always show everything

[2:25:46] but what tell me about tell us about

[2:25:48] some of the other things you're doing

[2:25:50] >> um

[2:25:52] the data might not show

[2:25:53] >> I'll answer But one question he asked

[2:25:55] the 2019 officers were four of them.

[2:25:57] Four of those went to patrol to beef up

[2:26:00] minimum staffing uh for swing shift.

[2:26:04] That's our most busy shift um of the

[2:26:06] day. Uh so we put those bodies in in

[2:26:09] that spot. uh the federal grants that we

[2:26:12] received uh for seven officers uh had to

[2:26:16] be dedicated for community oriented

[2:26:18] policing, mental health, and so we had

[2:26:22] the mental health team was designed to

[2:26:27] try and follow up with our mental health

[2:26:29] consumers to try to reduce the times

[2:26:33] that officers would have to go back out

[2:26:35] and respond to the same individual. So

[2:26:37] that team would, you know, a mental

[2:26:39] health call would come in, patrol would

[2:26:41] deal with it. The next next day, uh

[2:26:44] Cameron and her team, um well, at I'm

[2:26:48] trying to think at that time it was

[2:26:49] probably Jameson. Um would uh follow up

[2:26:53] with that individual, try to get them in

[2:26:55] touch with resources. Sometimes it's a

[2:26:57] phone call checking on on them. um

[2:27:01] because of the turnover, uh we haven't

[2:27:03] had them uh we've had to pull those two

[2:27:06] officers back and put them on the road.

[2:27:08] So now we have our civilian employee uh

[2:27:11] following up on that. And then when she

[2:27:13] needs to go and make an actual visit,

[2:27:15] she has to pull an officer off the road

[2:27:17] uh that's responding to call for

[2:27:18] services in order to make sure that

[2:27:21] she's safe as she's doing the follow-up

[2:27:23] on that. We've also employed uh in

[2:27:26] interns from the universities to help

[2:27:28] with that. That's been extremely

[2:27:31] successful to help um as they rotate

[2:27:33] through and able to do the the work from

[2:27:35] a civilian standpoint. Uh we will

[2:27:37] continue to leverage that to to aid us.

[2:27:40] Um the other one was our community

[2:27:42] oriented policing. Um Chief Adams uh

[2:27:46] when he uh was here that was a extremely

[2:27:50] uh important and uh very strong focus of

[2:27:52] our department. we began, you know, we

[2:27:55] don't have DARE officers anymore in the elementary schools. Uh, and so he

[2:28:00] created a reading program, uh, where we

[2:28:03] would go in and read to first and second

[2:28:05] graders. And, um, you know, been a long

[2:28:07] time since I've read a Dr. Seuss book.

[2:28:10] Um, and so those activities were taken

[2:28:12] care of by those officers and those

[2:28:14] teams. Um, and then as we could, we

[2:28:17] could have officers come in off the road

[2:28:19] to to do that. as staffing and turnover

[2:28:22] has been, we currently do not have those

[2:28:24] officers on the COP. We have one

[2:28:26] sergeant uh who was orchestrating all

[2:28:28] the events. Earlier this year and in my

[2:28:32] conversations with Bran was we are no

[2:28:35] [clears throat] we have planned events

[2:28:37] that we have not announced. We are

[2:28:38] cancelling them. And so we've had events

[2:28:40] that we have cancelled this year or not

[2:28:42] announced that we had planned because we

[2:28:45] just do not have the staffing to

[2:28:46] continue to pull from the patrol pull

[2:28:49] from detectives to be at these events.

[2:28:52] We kept the big ones, our uh autism

[2:28:55] picnic, our national night out, uh those

[2:28:58] type of things. But as you remember, we

[2:29:00] were going to have a citizens academy

[2:29:01] that some of you were going to attend.

[2:29:04] We canled that. We were going to do that

[2:29:06] in September.

[2:29:08] were not able to um it's just a manpower

[2:29:12] issue. And so that's where those

[2:29:14] officers went and those that explains

[2:29:16] some of those. Was there any other ones?

[2:29:19] >> No, that was that was as I say council

[2:29:21] with Citizens Academy.

[2:29:24] I'm looking for a glass half full.

[2:29:26] You've been spared from getting tased.

[2:29:30] >> That's voluntary.

[2:29:31] >> That's volunteer. and having been having

[2:29:34] volunteered to be tased in my in the

[2:29:36] past. Um it's not I don't recommend it,

[2:29:39] but I don't regret doing it because it

[2:29:42] deterred me from a life of crime. So, um

[2:29:46] council, what I've talked a whole lot,

[2:29:49] what questions do you have as you listen

[2:29:51] to our residents speak this evening? Is

[2:29:54] there anything that you would like to

[2:29:56] follow up with with staff or any

[2:29:59] anything that you would like to share?

[2:30:03] Um, Council Member Mikum.

[2:30:06] >> Well, I I do think because we got some

[2:30:07] comments on it that it is worth talking

[2:30:10] a little bit more about um why a special

[2:30:13] revenue fund makes sense for public

[2:30:15] safety. Um, I had questions about this

[2:30:18] early in the process as well and uh I

[2:30:23] um approached our fire chief and our

[2:30:25] police chief uh to try to understand uh

[2:30:28] if this made sense for them um and why

[2:30:31] it might make sense for them. Um and

[2:30:33] they both told me that this was

[2:30:35] important uh to them to guarantee more

[2:30:39] fiscal stability for their programs. But

[2:30:40] I'm wondering if either of you ha have

[2:30:43] any additional comments as to why it

[2:30:45] makes sense from your perspective to

[2:30:47] have that special revenue public safety

[2:30:49] fund.

[2:30:50] >> I'll go first. Um we at least know what

[2:30:54] the baseline is as to what our budget we

[2:30:55] are like Brandon says. We are always

[2:30:57] going to be dependent on sales tax and

[2:30:59] it is volatile and so at least you as

[2:31:04] citizens know that 100% of your sales

[2:31:06] tax is going towards essential services.

[2:31:10] Um, as did I say that wrong?

[2:31:14] >> Property tax. My my bad. 100% of your

[2:31:17] property tax is going to public safety.

[2:31:22] Um, which will always have to be

[2:31:24] supplemented because it's not enough.

[2:31:26] And so

[2:31:28] what we're paying in property taxes is

[2:31:30] not enough to provide the essential

[2:31:32] services of the city.

[2:31:38] Could

[2:31:42] I add a Could could I Well, Go ahead,

[2:31:45] Chief.

[2:31:46] >> Well, for everybody that knows me in

[2:31:48] this room,

[2:31:50] I've never sat quiet for 2 hours and 34

[2:31:52] minutes in the history of my career. So,

[2:31:55] thank you for providing me the

[2:31:56] opportunity just to recognize that the biggest point I want to make is that

[2:32:01] I want to assure the residents that with

[2:32:03] this fund, it definitely identifies the

[2:32:04] public safety revenue, the the money we

[2:32:09] spend, but I want to assure everyone

[2:32:12] that when the time comes that there's a

[2:32:15] need for reduction in all of our budgets

[2:32:18] to meet a fidiciary responsibility,

[2:32:22] public safety is going to do our job to

[2:32:24] look at where we can cut expenses to

[2:32:26] meet our needs while trying to provide

[2:32:28] the highest level of service possible.

[2:32:31] So that's the value I see in it. So

[2:32:34] thank you for allowing me to speak.

[2:32:38] >> All right. Um did you have council

[2:32:41] member Lamson then council member Gail?

[2:32:44] just just to reiterate the the fact that

[2:32:48] you know those instances and and we've

[2:32:51] been very blessed with as you said we're

[2:32:54] the king of sales tax. I think that was

[2:32:56] your line. Uh but but that's been we've

[2:32:59] been seeing that decrease and

[2:33:03] the the concern in my mind is if we run

[2:33:06] into a situation where the bottom drops

[2:33:09] out of the economy

[2:33:11] and we haven't done something to protect

[2:33:13] that baseline of public safety.

[2:33:17] That's concerning.

[2:33:19] So just to to reemphasize the point that

[2:33:21] you've very well made.

[2:33:25] » All right. Um, Council Member Gail, and

[2:33:27] then did did you say that? Okay,

[2:33:31] >> we're doing questions now. Yes.

[2:33:32] >> Yeah, this is questions. Yeah.

[2:33:34] >> Um, I I appreciate all the comments that

[2:33:36] have been made today. I think you raised

[2:33:37] very good, thoughtful questions that

[2:33:39] deserve to be answered. Um, I think uh

[2:33:42] from Mr. BB had seven questions. I

[2:33:45] thought that was great. He outlined them

[2:33:46] all. I think a lot of your comments

[2:33:48] earlier today probably speak to that.

[2:33:49] So, he can go back and watch that

[2:33:50] section. That will help. Um, but I saw

[2:33:53] two themes sort of emerge and so I think

[2:33:55] if we could have staff help answer these

[2:33:57] two questions that would be helpful for

[2:33:58] our residents. Uh, the first question is

[2:34:01] um, can you find money elsewhere? Have

[2:34:04] you looked at what you can cut? And I

[2:34:05] think Mayor Young pointed out um,

[2:34:07] beautifully that after economizing and

[2:34:08] getting grants, they haven't had to

[2:34:09] raise taxes in, you know, four to five

[2:34:11] years, what, however long it's been. Um,

[2:34:14] what is left to cut? Have you looked at

[2:34:15] that? Can you walk us through that

[2:34:16] process? What does that look like?

[2:34:18] That's my first question.

[2:34:24] I think uh it might be good to have uh

[2:34:27] our deputy city manager Carrie uh

[2:34:29] explain some additional cuts and and

[2:34:31] restructuring. I would say we have

[2:34:34] maintained cuts of the past for one. Um,

[2:34:38] and then in terms of uh funding

[2:34:41] alternatives, I just quickly listed out

[2:34:45] um over a half a dozen grants that we

[2:34:48] have gone after. Um, and some of these

[2:34:52] we have applied for them and haven't

[2:34:54] heard back yet if if we'd be awarded

[2:34:57] with them. So, we applied for a a

[2:34:59] federal grant for $1.1 million for

[2:35:03] breathing apparatuses for firefighters,

[2:35:05] another $1.3 million for uh additional

[2:35:09] firefighters.

[2:35:10] Um, we did apply for a cops grant, but

[2:35:13] as chief said, uh we did not get awarded

[2:35:15] that. Um, we even applied for a $10,000

[2:35:19] grant uh to Firehouse Subs to help us

[2:35:22] equip um uh our firefighters.

[2:35:26] Um, we did receive a federal grant for

[2:35:29] $1 million for our sewer treatment

[2:35:32] plant. Um, we uh we received uh uh

[2:35:37] verbal commitment from the county for

[2:35:39] $1.5 million for regional trail safety

[2:35:43] improvements.

[2:35:44] and uh we are in discussions with the

[2:35:47] county for uh to capture more dollars uh

[2:35:51] more transient room tax or hotel and

[2:35:53] restaurant taxes uh to go towards um

[2:35:57] some uh parks and and recreation uh type uses. So, uh there there are

[2:36:06] currently probably more grant andor

[2:36:09] state and federal uh funds for parks,

[2:36:12] open space, trails, water right now than

[2:36:16] there is uh for public safety other than

[2:36:18] the ones that I I listed off there.

[2:36:21] Carrie,

[2:36:23] >> thank you, Mayor Council. I just wanted

[2:36:25] to mention that and give a shout out to

[2:36:27] Mayor Young. I appreciated his comments

[2:36:29] tonight. When he first became mayor, one

[2:36:32] of the first meetings that I attended,

[2:36:34] he asked us if there was any way to

[2:36:38] prove that we were being fiscally

[2:36:39] responsible. And so we came up with the

[2:36:43] idea to uh partner with MGT to do an

[2:36:46] efficiency study, the first of its kind

[2:36:48] in the state of Utah, where they dove

[2:36:51] into everything outside of sworn

[2:36:54] officers and sworn firefighters. every

[2:36:57] department in the city was looked at uh

[2:36:59] seriously for staffing and for other ways that we could save more

[2:37:05] money. And um once we got the study

[2:37:08] back, we implemented every single one of

[2:37:10] their suggestions. And one of the things

[2:37:13] that the study came out was that we were

[2:37:15] very lean compared to our sister cities.

[2:37:18] And so that was really good to see. But

[2:37:21] in addition to that, every time we have

[2:37:23] a vacancy, as you know, personnel is one

[2:37:25] of our largest costs here in the city.

[2:37:27] But anytime we have a vacancy in the

[2:37:29] city, we look at that position every

[2:37:32] single time to see if there is a

[2:37:33] different way that we can use those

[2:37:36] funding sources to help provide better

[2:37:38] services to the community or to save

[2:37:40] money. So, as an example, uh city

[2:37:42] manager Brenby mentioned uh risk

[2:37:44] management. Recently, our risk manager

[2:37:46] resigned and instead of just hiring

[2:37:50] another risk manager, we decided to try

[2:37:52] a committee of people that already have

[2:37:55] other workloads here in the city and we use a committee to be the risk

[2:38:00] managers instead of having that

[2:38:01] position. So, there's lots of ways that

[2:38:04] we're uh trying to be as fiscally

[2:38:06] responsible to the residents as we can.

[2:38:09] Um but we have done those efficiencies

[2:38:13] every time and um so that we can prove

[2:38:17] to everybody that we are as lean as we

[2:38:19] can be.

[2:38:21] >> Thank you. Oh

[2:38:23] >> I would just add that I made the comment

[2:38:25] of you know Oram Police Department does

[2:38:28] more with less. That's not unique to

[2:38:30] just the police department. That's to

[2:38:32] every one of these departments uh in the

[2:38:34] city and what makes ORM the place where

[2:38:38] you want to live, work and play. And so

[2:38:41] that's not unique to just me and my

[2:38:43] department or Mark in his department.

[2:38:46] That's every one of these people that

[2:38:49] work for the city share in that same

[2:38:51] culture.

[2:38:53] >> And I can attest to that. I feel like we

[2:38:56] need to start making a tally mark every

[2:38:57] time I hear somebody one of our staff

[2:38:59] say we do more with less in ORM. I

[2:39:00] really believe they do. They they don't

[2:39:02] just, you know, like raise taxes is

[2:39:03] never the option that they go with. Not

[2:39:05] ever. So, um I I I guess my point is

[2:39:08] that I don't think this is something we

[2:39:09] take lightly. I think you've done your

[2:39:10] homework and you're you've cut

[2:39:11] everywhere you can cut and I and I

[2:39:13] appreciate that. Um my next question I

[2:39:15] think surfaced tonight was um can can we

[2:39:18] fund this from something other than

[2:39:20] property taxes? That came up several

[2:39:22] times. I mean, can can we fund it with

[2:39:23] sales tax? Can we fund it with I don't

[2:39:25] know what, but but what what would you

[2:39:26] say to that question?

[2:39:28] Um so so many of the items mentioned um

[2:39:32] go against our budgeting principles of

[2:39:35] using one-time

[2:39:37] surplus dollars to fund an ongoing

[2:39:42] expense. [snorts] What does that lead

[2:39:45] to?

[2:39:47] Not good things. Maybe a $40 trillion

[2:39:49] debt for instance.

[2:39:52] Um so we try to avoid that if at all

[2:39:55] possible. Um, and

[2:39:58] some people say, "Well, I don't need a

[2:40:00] playground." Other people do need a

[2:40:02] playground. They do want a playground.

[2:40:04] Some people don't want a library or as

[2:40:07] robust a library they say and some

[2:40:09] people do. So, we struggle with all of

[2:40:12] those things and and determine all of,

[2:40:14] you know, where do those funds need to

[2:40:16] go? Where can we identify funds that

[2:40:20] match what it is we're trying to do?

[2:40:23] We're trying to accomplish. Um, I

[2:40:25] mentioned sales tax. You know, funding just public safety in general

[2:40:30] from uh raises and benefits and

[2:40:33] retirement is a is a task every year.

[2:40:36] Uh, and so where if sales taxes aren't

[2:40:40] enough to cover that and that doesn't

[2:40:43] count the rest of the city, by the way,

[2:40:46] where do those funds come from if sales

[2:40:48] tax isn't covering it? It's not, you

[2:40:51] know, we don't have, like, as I

[2:40:53] mentioned, an exorbitant number of

[2:40:56] different revenue paths to be able to

[2:40:59] take. So, that's the item I would I

[2:41:03] would say in response to that.

[2:41:08] All right. Any other questions? Council

[2:41:10] member Muelling.

[2:41:13] Brandon, in one of the uh one of the

[2:41:16] commenters said something about creating

[2:41:19] the pro uh the public safety fund

[2:41:22] created a false shortfall.

[2:41:25] Do you have any comments on that? Um

[2:41:30] >> so so the bud the budgeting that will go

[2:41:32] on is no different whether they're

[2:41:35] separate or together. we they'll both be

[2:41:38] considered together in our evaluation of

[2:41:41] what things we do and don't do and the

[2:41:45] amount that needs to be transferred to

[2:41:47] that public safety fund will be

[2:41:50] determined at the very end once we've

[2:41:52] gone through all the motions of

[2:41:53] determining what is needed and what is

[2:41:55] not. So there's no um it no

[2:41:59] determination upfront that oh yep this

[2:42:01] is what public safety asked for. They

[2:42:03] get it all. We fund that and then we

[2:42:05] have to try to backfill in the general

[2:42:07] fund what we need and andor the

[2:42:10] opposite. We fund the general fund and

[2:42:12] we leave the public safety fund uh short

[2:42:15] and so well of course we have to go out

[2:42:17] and ask for a property tax increase

[2:42:19] because they're short. That isn't how it

[2:42:20] works and that's not how it will work.

[2:42:23] So going forward, it it it really has no

[2:42:28] change other than to specifically

[2:42:30] identify what revenues public safety

[2:42:33] produces

[2:42:35] and and or what their bottom line looks

[2:42:38] like easily. It's much more easily seen

[2:42:42] than buried, if you will, within the

[2:42:45] general fund.

[2:42:48] » All right. Thank you. Um before before I

[2:42:51] go, I just want to just say I council I

[2:42:53] don't think we're going to to end this

[2:42:55] meeting in the next 17 minutes. So what

[2:42:58] I was just going to just give everyone a

[2:43:00] heads up that at 9:00 let's take like

[2:43:03] between a five and a 10 minute bio

[2:43:06] break.

[2:43:08] So So let's go till 9:00 and then we

[2:43:11] take a little break and then we'll let's

[2:43:13] what what the council you want five

[2:43:15] minutes 10 minutes?

[2:43:17] >> Five minutes.

[2:43:18] >> Five. Okay. Okay. So, like a 5m minute

[2:43:19] break and then at 9:05 we'll reconvene.

[2:43:22] So, anyway, go ahead, Council Member

[2:43:24] Millet. Thank you.

[2:43:25] >> Yeah. So, just remembering some of our

[2:43:27] presentations we've had in the past um

[2:43:29] regarding this these trends for our

[2:43:32] sales tax revenues. Um in my mind, for

[2:43:36] some reason, I'm thinking we've had this

[2:43:38] 4%. We had a bump after CO

[2:43:43] >> surprisingly, right? Everyone was like

[2:43:45] pleasantly pleased. We were all shopping

[2:43:47] online, I guess.

[2:43:48] >> Yes.

[2:43:48] >> Buying more than we should cuz we were

[2:43:50] home with Amazon in front of us. But um

[2:43:53] so then we um it seemed like we leveled

[2:43:57] off at 4%.

[2:44:00] >> Am I remembering that? Help me

[2:44:02] understand 20.

[2:44:04] >> So 2021,

[2:44:07] fiscal 2021, it was an 18% increase.

[2:44:11] Fiscal 2022 was a 13.5% increase. And

[2:44:15] then from that was the years I mentioned

[2:44:17] where we had a.3% increase. 202 uh three

[2:44:23] four we actually had a decrease.

[2:44:26] 2025 was a 3.1% increase.

[2:44:31] And then this last year was 2.3.

[2:44:35] >> 2.3.

[2:44:38] » Okay. What do what do you budget? What

[2:44:41] increase do you budget?

[2:44:42] >> So do you project?

[2:44:43] >> You say I'm Yes. I'm having to guess

[2:44:45] because I don't have all the information

[2:44:46] until for the full fiscal year until

[2:44:49] here in August to be honestly. So when

[2:44:51] I'm budgeting in uh March, I have many

[2:44:55] months I have to make a guess for. And

[2:44:58] so for the remainder of 2026, at the

[2:45:01] time we budgeted, I guessed at 3%.

[2:45:03] >> Okay.

[2:45:04] >> With a 3% increase for 2027.

[2:45:07] >> Okay.

[2:45:08] >> So as I mentioned, we came in at 2.3.

[2:45:12] >> And those are those are final now. Those

[2:45:14] are final.

[2:45:14] >> Okay.

[2:45:15] >> So, in order to hit our 2027 sales tax

[2:45:19] revenue numbers, it now have to get to

[2:45:22] 4%, not the 3% that I originally made an

[2:45:25] estimate for.

[2:45:27] >> And I mean, we had some theories on

[2:45:29] those down years that people there

[2:45:32] weren't cars. I mean, we have a huge

[2:45:35] heart because we have these wonderful

[2:45:37] car dealerships, right? That that's a

[2:45:40] big chunk when a car is sold. Y

[2:45:42] >> so do you um for those few couple years

[2:45:45] that we had the deficits 23 24 still

[2:45:48] coming out of co no inventory you know

[2:45:50] right now they have tons of inventory

[2:45:52] and they're lowering prices I've heard

[2:45:54] cuz I want to buy a car I'm waiting to

[2:45:55] see but um how what do you just kind of

[2:45:59] where do you think we are now? But what

[2:46:01] do you you know back then you said well

[2:46:03] it's probably the cars

[2:46:04] >> and construction

[2:46:06] >> of

[2:46:07] >> okay

[2:46:08] >> yeah so you know the RC willies the

[2:46:11] lumber yards the home depots etc uh we

[2:46:15] building materials have uh sloughed off

[2:46:18] dramatically since uh during those time

[2:46:21] they've recovered a little as well as

[2:46:23] you know cars have kind of fluctuated

[2:46:25] between used cars new cars um just

[2:46:29] depending on how that market happens to

[2:46:30] be at the time. Um but they both are

[2:46:33] nowhere near the the preandemic level.

[2:46:38] Um more dollars have been going towards

[2:46:41] as we they've talked about inflation for

[2:46:44] instance. Um basics. So we haven't seen

[2:46:47] that decline in our general merchandise

[2:46:50] uh category area. Um however maybe arts,

[2:46:53] crafts, hobbies you know unique area

[2:46:57] that area is also um fallen off as well.

[2:47:01] Um so those are the main areas that have

[2:47:03] been uh clothing.

[2:47:06] >> Okay. When when um when you do your

[2:47:10] projections form specific do you look at

[2:47:14] um for example I'm just looking up and

[2:47:16] down State Street. We're having some

[2:47:17] exciting things happening here. I'm

[2:47:20] seeing some remodels, some rebuilds,

[2:47:22] raising canes. We got this bank over

[2:47:24] here. We've got Apollo Burgers a

[2:47:26] complete rebuild. Um the Home Depot at

[2:47:29] University Place, the We went to the

[2:47:31] ribbon cutting yesterday for the

[2:47:33] Homebuilt store.

[2:47:34] >> Um do does do you get with our economic

[2:47:38] director? Do you talk about these new

[2:47:40] things that are coming or do you just do

[2:47:42] you use other metrics like um financial

[2:47:45] metrics?

[2:47:46] Um, so I'm I'm made well aware of those

[2:47:48] in our exec staff meetings. Um, Gary

[2:47:51] outlines a lot of those. So I'm aware of, if you will, a material ones that

[2:47:56] might have some kind of an impact. I

[2:47:58] mean, keeping in mind we have a sales

[2:48:00] tax base of 33, you know, 33 million.

[2:48:03] Uh, Trader Joe's is great, but it

[2:48:07] doesn't make a blip in that number. Um,

[2:48:11] >> well, I am trying to get the In and Out

[2:48:12] by the home bill. In and Out would

[2:48:14] probably be

[2:48:14] >> I'm still I'm still playing that song.

[2:48:17] >> So, I I don't want to downplay. They're

[2:48:20] all important. Every one of them, but it

[2:48:24] takes all of them to keep sales tax

[2:48:27] going forward. Um and so yes, I am aware

[2:48:31] of those and you know I try to take that

[2:48:33] into account as I'm making um you know

[2:48:38] based on and we we get a report an

[2:48:40] economic report from um a company that

[2:48:44] tracks um various entities um sales

[2:48:47] taxes and so I also am looking at those

[2:48:50] entities and you know how are they doing

[2:48:52] as the year goes along um because you

[2:48:54] know sometimes that's beneficial to us

[2:48:56] and other times it's an indic indicator.

[2:48:59] You know, when when Saratoga Springs is

[2:49:02] going crazy from a percentage

[2:49:03] standpoint, I can't really take that

[2:49:05] into account because that's a

[2:49:07] significantly different and it's far

[2:49:09] enough away, but it does impact the worm

[2:49:11] to some degree. If they're growing that

[2:49:14] and they get certain businesses out

[2:49:16] there, that means they may not be coming

[2:49:18] here any longer, right? So, so that does

[2:49:20] go into that thought. Um, so there are

[2:49:23] some elements that go into that and and

[2:49:25] certainly as as Garrett and I get more

[2:49:27] acquainted with each other. I I hope

[2:49:29] that we can both develop that um in a in

[2:49:32] a maybe a slightly um more clear

[2:49:35] picture.

[2:49:36] >> Yeah, cuz that would be exciting, right?

[2:49:37] If we cuz I know you're pretty good at

[2:49:39] your projections. Um people call them

[2:49:41] guesses, but I think you're pretty

[2:49:43] skilled at that. Um, so that would be

[2:49:45] pretty pretty exciting if we can get

[2:49:47] that economic development director

[2:49:49] predictions along with your financial

[2:49:50] predictions and and use that for our

[2:49:53] budgeting. But moving forward, for sure,

[2:49:55] >> I can see that being a definite plus,

[2:49:56] but okay. Thank you. Thanks,

[2:49:57] >> Brandon.

[2:49:59] >> Thank you, council. As you look at and

[2:50:01] recall, is there anything else that you would like to ask that was on

[2:50:06] behalf of what what we heard from the

[2:50:07] residents? All right. Thank you, Council

[2:50:10] Member Lamson.

[2:50:11] >> There was a question uh brought up.

[2:50:13] We've heard a lot about UVU, uh, Utah

[2:50:16] Valley University, and the impact that

[2:50:19] people coming there to go to school and work. Um, I don't know how large

[2:50:24] their employment force is or how that

[2:50:26] affects things, but I wondering if you

[2:50:29] could address that, how that campus with

[2:50:33] people coming and going, some stay here,

[2:50:36] some go to other places, uh, how that

[2:50:38] affects

[2:50:40] what what we're looking at. Um so they

[2:50:44] do have their own police department. So

[2:50:45] any crime or anything like that that

[2:50:48] occurs on campus um UVU police

[2:50:51] department will take and investigate and

[2:50:53] respond to that. Um we respond to back

[2:50:56] them up uh on higher priority incidents.

[2:51:01] Um the obviously the September 10th,

[2:51:04] 2025

[2:51:06] um incident um we were heavily involved

[2:51:09] in that. Um, and that is a mutual aid.

[2:51:14] Um,

[2:51:16] the four days that our officers were

[2:51:19] there, um, that was us, um, being paid

[2:51:23] for by us. Now, when they have special

[2:51:25] events that are planned or, you know, in

[2:51:28] the in the weeks and months following

[2:51:30] that where they they paid for our

[2:51:34] officers overtime. Uh and that's why

[2:51:37] that number was as high as it was last

[2:51:39] year was on top of that they also paid

[2:51:41] for officers around the state to pay. It

[2:51:44] wasn't just ORUM officers that were

[2:51:47] there to help support that but it was

[2:51:50] you know UHP Provo everybody. And so

[2:51:54] that was a significant need and ORMPD

[2:51:57] shouldered a I would say um

[2:52:01] our share and then some um far as

[2:52:05] helping out. Why? Cuz they're in our

[2:52:08] city.

[2:52:11] We have a large university that is on

[2:52:14] our city and we are going to help. Um

[2:52:19] traffic is you know if if is heavy in

[2:52:23] there uh obviously and around campus. Uh

[2:52:26] I would also say that the question

[2:52:28] wasn't asked but as vineyard grows how

[2:52:31] do people get to vineyard

[2:52:33] through our city

[2:52:37] who commits you know everybody can

[2:52:39] commit a crime no matter where but as

[2:52:42] populations grow around us and increase

[2:52:46] our our needs and our ability to serve

[2:52:50] uh are impacted by those those needs or

[2:52:53] by those increases. So, um, that's how

[2:52:57] I'd answer that question. Did that

[2:52:59] answer it enough?

[2:53:01] >> Yes, thank you. I I was just curious

[2:53:03] what that and and thank you for

[2:53:06] responding to that because yeah, I think

[2:53:07] that that influx of people coming and

[2:53:09] going, it's increased traffic. It's

[2:53:11] increased people interacting with each

[2:53:13] other, which most of the time is great,

[2:53:15] but sometimes not so great, and

[2:53:17] opportunities for kurfuffle here and

[2:53:19] there. So,

[2:53:24] All right. Council um council member

[2:53:26] Kilpac ju

[2:53:27] >> just to follow up on that. UVU, is there

[2:53:30] anything coming in from the university

[2:53:32] for for their um requirement to be in

[2:53:36] our city and any revenue coming into the

[2:53:38] city for what they do or impact us

[2:53:42] through all of those either fire,

[2:53:44] police, any of those? Bren,

[2:53:48] uh, I mean,

[2:53:50] Chief Sanderson can speak to if we've

[2:53:52] got any sort of contractual relationship

[2:53:54] with UEU as it relates to fire. Um, uh,

[2:53:57] so, and

[2:53:59] Chief Robinson spoke to if if there are

[2:54:02] events, they'll pay us for for that type

[2:54:04] of thing. Um, we we get no

[2:54:08] tax revenue that goes through UVU and

[2:54:11] then is directed to ORM city. Um

[2:54:17] uh

[2:54:19] yeah. Now that being said, they do have

[2:54:22] a lot of of

[2:54:25] um employees and I would say uh you know

[2:54:29] a lot of uh higher paying jobs uh work

[2:54:33] at UVU. And so now uh from our salaries

[2:54:38] uh income tax is charged.

[2:54:41] cities don't get income tax directly.

[2:54:44] But of course, if we bring in pe uh more

[2:54:47] jobs into the city and um then those

[2:54:52] people spend their dollars uh and then

[2:54:55] we would uh get uh help through sales

[2:54:58] tax in in that scenario. Um yeah, Chief

[2:55:03] Sanderson, anything in in terms of

[2:55:06] contractual revenue relationship? I was

[2:55:07] just going to add that we uh want to be

[2:55:11] a really good partner and so we staff

[2:55:13] all of their events different like the

[2:55:15] police department. They don't have their

[2:55:16] own fire department. So increase in

[2:55:18] population is an increase of call volume

[2:55:20] that we take care of which puts puts a

[2:55:23] burden on our services. However, in that

[2:55:26] good partnership, we we just cover our

[2:55:29] employee wages and compensation. Um it

[2:55:33] doesn't cost us anything to provide that

[2:55:34] level of service. It's but it doesn't

[2:55:37] really make us any additional money.

[2:55:40] >> I think some of the citizens who had

[2:55:41] those comments or questions about the

[2:55:43] impact of UVU, they were wondering if

[2:55:44] there's a revenue source that comes into

[2:55:46] the city. And I just wanted to make sure

[2:55:48] that we all as a community understand

[2:55:50] that that role of what the UVU does.

[2:55:52] It's not impacting us financially

[2:55:54] positively, but yet it's a good

[2:55:56] community blessing to be in our area

[2:55:58] because of, you know, sales tax, other

[2:56:01] things people come into the city for.

[2:56:02] Thank you.

[2:56:03] >> Yeah. Yeah. I I mean, as Bren mentioned,

[2:56:05] the sales tax component. They they still

[2:56:07] have to charge sales tax at their

[2:56:08] cafeteria. So, I mean, if you want to

[2:56:10] indicate that, and the surrounding

[2:56:12] restaurants, right? And certainly they

[2:56:15] probably uh since many of them do live

[2:56:17] here, um you know, they they go up to

[2:56:20] the mall and spend their money there,

[2:56:21] but it's primarily sales tax based.

[2:56:28] All right. Anything else for right now

[2:56:30] or should we take our five-minut break

[2:56:31] right now? take our five minute break

[2:56:33] and counsel when we come back. It's time

[2:56:36] to [gasps]

[2:56:37] it's time to work toward making a a

[2:56:41] decision and taking a vote. I know we're

[2:56:42] working on that now, but we're going to

[2:56:44] have to I think redouble our efforts now

[2:56:47] and and just figure out what we want to

[2:56:50] do. So, we will meet back here, let's

[2:56:53] say between 9 and 5 after.

[2:56:57] And so, we'll see you in a few minutes.

[3:08:31] All

[3:08:44] right, my friends, it's time. Let's go ahead and continue

[3:08:52] and enter into the next part of the

[3:08:55] meeting, which this is in my my world is

[3:08:58] we've asked questions. It's time now

[3:09:01] for I think for the city council to

[3:09:04] embark in its discussion about what what

[3:09:07] we have heard this evening the research

[3:09:09] we have done I know we've spent a lot of

[3:09:11] time on this and asked a lot of

[3:09:14] questions met with staff and so

[3:09:19] who would like to lead out oh council

[3:09:23] member Mikum would like to lead out the

[3:09:24] discussion

[3:09:27] >> uh well I'm open to anyone leading But

[3:09:31] um I I guess I just had a couple of

[3:09:33] quick reflections. First is this is the

[3:09:36] best conversation we've had all year. Uh

[3:09:39] I just think this has been enormously

[3:09:41] rich. I think the questions have been

[3:09:42] great. I think uh the level of

[3:09:45] involvement from a wide variety of

[3:09:47] people has been great. I think

[3:09:48] everybody's tried to be civil and

[3:09:51] generous with each other. And uh that's

[3:09:54] really important to me. It's important

[3:09:56] to me that we have great uh processes,

[3:10:00] transparent processes with lots of

[3:10:01] public participation. So, I I just want

[3:10:04] to say thank you to everybody who's made

[3:10:06] that conversation rich and meaningful.

[3:10:10] And I've learned a lot in the process.

[3:10:12] Uh this is my first year on city

[3:10:14] council. Uh as a result, I've learned a

[3:10:16] lot this year about ORM city finances.

[3:10:20] Um and um a lot of that has been really

[3:10:25] good news. Um I think we've done a

[3:10:28] really great job of being fiscally

[3:10:30] responsible for a long time and I'm

[3:10:32] grateful for that. I I'm also concerned

[3:10:35] the more I've learned that I'm I'm

[3:10:36] concerned that we do have some existing

[3:10:38] vulnerabilities

[3:10:40] um and um that that dependence on the

[3:10:46] highly uh fluctuating sales tax is is

[3:10:49] still a concern um for me. Um Mayor,

[3:10:54] I'll just share a few things that are

[3:10:55] important to me as I think about uh this

[3:10:57] decision and and u share that with the

[3:11:00] council as well as those those in the

[3:11:02] room. uh

[3:11:04] having a a lean budget, low taxes,

[3:11:08] making tough choices, um looking at

[3:11:11] every option, looking for cuts, looking

[3:11:14] for grants, looking for efficiencies.

[3:11:16] That's really important to me. Um I want

[3:11:20] uh people who live in ORM to bear u one

[3:11:24] of the lowest tax burdens uh anywhere in

[3:11:27] the county, in the state. Uh I'm really

[3:11:30] proud that we do that. Um it's a result

[3:11:34] of a lot of decisions over a long period

[3:11:36] of time. It's also a result of the fact

[3:11:38] that we do have good uh sales tax

[3:11:41] revenues which also come from

[3:11:43] development decisions that have been

[3:11:44] made in the past.

[3:11:47] So, you know, with respect to our

[3:11:49] comparable cities, uh I'm I'm really

[3:11:51] proud of the fact that we um are the

[3:11:54] lowest or uh one of the lowest depending

[3:11:57] on um what metric we're looking at in

[3:11:59] any given time. Um I I worry a lot about

[3:12:03] inflation. So, uh as was mentioned

[3:12:06] tonight,

[3:12:08] uh our tax rate keeps going down um and

[3:12:11] inflation keeps going up. particularly

[3:12:13] in the last couple of years, we've just

[3:12:14] had enormous inflation in terms of fuel

[3:12:17] and um a lot of the things associated

[3:12:19] with our public safety. Um I I've had

[3:12:23] the chance now to listen to two or three

[3:12:25] different presentations from our

[3:12:26] financial adviserss as a city. Um and

[3:12:29] they continue to tell us that

[3:12:32] um we have some vulnerabilities if we

[3:12:35] don't consider u at least trying to

[3:12:39] match inflation

[3:12:40] >> [clears throat]

[3:12:40] >> um with the the revenues that we're

[3:12:42] bringing in. Um I care a lot about value

[3:12:46] per tax dollar. So uh I care about

[3:12:50] having low taxes, but I also really care

[3:12:52] that our taxes buy us really good

[3:12:54] things. uh the bias grade public safety

[3:12:58] um the best officers we can get, fire

[3:13:01] and police. Uh I want us to have a great

[3:13:03] library. I want us to have great parks.

[3:13:05] I really um am proud of what ORM does in

[3:13:08] terms of value per dollar. And

[3:13:11] [clears throat] I think as as one of our

[3:13:13] speakers earlier said, u my family has

[3:13:17] just benefited enormously from uh you

[3:13:20] know, spending very very little uh

[3:13:23] living here. um and having really quite

[3:13:26] remarkable services to show for it. Um

[3:13:30] as I mentioned, I I I did have some

[3:13:33] questions about the structure of this um

[3:13:36] and the creation of that special revenue

[3:13:38] fund. Um I do trust our police and fire

[3:13:42] departments. they've earned that trust

[3:13:43] and I just think that that they are very

[3:13:45] thoughtful uh about uh how they spend

[3:13:48] their money and I want to to rate that

[3:13:52] fund uh in order uh to show support for

[3:13:56] their needs and to provide them with

[3:13:58] some some guaranteed funding uh over

[3:14:00] time. Um I uh I'm also really concerned

[3:14:06] about our most vulnerable residents. So

[3:14:10] this came up a couple of times. We

[3:14:11] haven't talked too much about it, but we

[3:14:14] do have people on fixed incomes. We do

[3:14:16] have people um for whom even a small

[3:14:19] property tax like the one that's being

[3:14:21] proposed uh could have disproportionate

[3:14:25] impact. Um and so personally, it's just

[3:14:28] really important to me that those who

[3:14:31] find themselves in that situation have

[3:14:33] avenues

[3:14:35] uh in order to receive support and a

[3:14:37] break from that. And I know that um Utah

[3:14:41] County and the state of Utah have a

[3:14:44] number of programs that offer uh

[3:14:46] property tax relief or abatement um that

[3:14:49] we've been able to post on our website

[3:14:52] as well. Uh one of them is the circuit

[3:14:54] breaker program.

[3:14:56] There's also property tax deferral.

[3:14:58] There's a quite quite a range of things

[3:15:00] that those who are particularly

[3:15:02] vulnerable can apply for that would

[3:15:04] either eliminate the impact of this tax

[3:15:07] uh or significantly reduce it. And I

[3:15:09] just want to make sure that we do

[3:15:11] everything we can to be sensitive to

[3:15:13] those u who are disproportionately

[3:15:15] impacted by any any tax increase,

[3:15:18] whether it be this property tax increase

[3:15:19] or a rate increase. Um that's that's

[3:15:22] important to me. So, those are some of

[3:15:24] the things that I I've been thinking

[3:15:25] about as I've tried to figure out how to

[3:15:28] vote. And I I just want to express that

[3:15:31] I've learned so much from the thoughtful

[3:15:32] and articulate questions uh and concerns

[3:15:36] that have been raised. Uh this is this

[3:15:38] is a policy decision on which I think

[3:15:40] reasonable people can disagree and I've

[3:15:43] heard a lot of reasonable people uh

[3:15:45] tonight uh with different opinions and

[3:15:47] so thank you for sharing those.

[3:15:50] >> Thank you.

[3:15:52] Anyone else want to say anything?

[3:15:54] Council member Gail.

[3:15:58] >> Um I I just want to echo everything

[3:15:59] Quinn said. In fact, he said it better

[3:16:01] than I ever could. But um I do want to

[3:16:03] point out this this you can't see it

[3:16:05] from where you're sitting, but this

[3:16:06] chart is on our website here and it

[3:16:07] shows um ORM's taxes compared to every

[3:16:11] other to like 18 other cities in Utah.

[3:16:14] Um many of them are similar sized and

[3:16:17] then our sister cities surrounding us.

[3:16:19] And of the 18 cities, ORM is the lowest

[3:16:23] taxing entity and that is including this

[3:16:25] property tax increase. So ORM still

[3:16:27] remains the lowest at that level. Um and

[3:16:30] I think the city has a long history of

[3:16:32] fiscal responsibility. I think Mayor

[3:16:33] Young emphasized that. I know Mayor

[3:16:34] McCandalis emphasizes that and I see it

[3:16:36] in our staff every single day. So um

[3:16:39] that said, I I I want to comment on this

[3:16:41] tax increase. I think um funding public

[3:16:44] safety appropriately is one of local

[3:16:47] government's most fundamental

[3:16:48] responsibilities. Um and it's crucial to

[3:16:50] keeping ORM family city USA that we all

[3:16:53] so value. And and this really to me is

[3:16:55] not a question of whether we could find

[3:16:57] $450,000 somewhere in the budget. We

[3:16:59] could, as Mayor Young said, this is a

[3:17:00] rounding error. You know, it's very

[3:17:01] small. But the question to me is whether

[3:17:04] it's fiscally responsible to fund

[3:17:07] permanent public safety obligations with

[3:17:09] temporary savings, volatile revenues, or

[3:17:12] one-time capital dollars. And I don't

[3:17:14] believe it is. I think it's our

[3:17:16] responsibility not just to balance this

[3:17:17] year's budget, but to leave ORM

[3:17:19] financially prepared for the next

[3:17:21] recession as well as the next period of

[3:17:23] growth. So, um I I've thought a lot

[3:17:25] about this and I imagine a scenario

[3:17:26] maybe 10 years down the road, say we

[3:17:28] have another great recession. Um and and

[3:17:30] when that happens, people are going to

[3:17:32] look back and say, "How did this happen?

[3:17:33] How did we get into this situation?" And

[3:17:36] they would look at us and and they would

[3:17:37] point to our dependence on sales tax and

[3:17:40] ask why when we had the opportunity, we

[3:17:42] didn't put our most fundamental

[3:17:44] responsibilities on a more stable

[3:17:46] financial foundation. So, um for me,

[3:17:49] fiscal responsibility isn't simply

[3:17:51] keeping taxes as low as possible,

[3:17:53] although I think that's important. I

[3:17:54] think it means making difficult

[3:17:56] decisions now so future councils and

[3:17:58] future residents aren't left paying the

[3:18:00] price for our unwillingness to act. Um

[3:18:04] and in that light I would believe it

[3:18:06] would be fiscally irresponsible not to

[3:18:08] make this adjustment now.

[3:18:12] >> Great. Thank you. Anyone else want to

[3:18:15] say anything at this point?

[3:18:18] All right. Council member Mulestein.

[3:18:19] Thank you. Um, I take my job as being a

[3:18:24] part of representative government very

[3:18:26] seriously and my job here is to

[3:18:29] represent the people of ORM and that

[3:18:31] coin has two sides to it in my opinion.

[3:18:34] The one side is that I need to listen to

[3:18:36] the people of ORM and when they have

[3:18:38] ideas, concerns, suggestions or other

[3:18:40] feedback, I need to take that in and I

[3:18:42] need to um do something with that. And

[3:18:45] the other side of that coin is that the

[3:18:48] people need to trust me to be able to do

[3:18:49] my job. You need to trust me that I'm

[3:18:52] attending all of my meetings. I'm doing

[3:18:53] all of the research. I'm speaking to all

[3:18:55] the people and I'm taking in all of that

[3:18:57] information and I'm making the best

[3:18:59] informed decision that I can with the

[3:19:01] information that I've gi I'm been given.

[3:19:04] Um, part of my conundrum in this process

[3:19:08] right now is the process.

[3:19:11] We have had this on the docket since

[3:19:15] May. This is something we have been

[3:19:16] looking at and gathering feedback for

[3:19:19] months and I feel like I've gotten a

[3:19:22] flood of information at the 11th hour

[3:19:25] and 59 minutes with a ton of emails

[3:19:28] today and yesterday. all of these public

[3:19:32] comments raising questions that I wish I

[3:19:34] had heard a month ago, a week ago,

[3:19:39] some, you know, when I had more time to

[3:19:41] really fully address that so that we

[3:19:43] could

[3:19:45] provide that information to our public

[3:19:48] of why this is needed and why um why

[3:19:52] this way. um

[3:19:56] if we have this many people tonight who

[3:19:59] are against this property tax increase

[3:20:02] and by my calculations there were 17 who

[3:20:05] spoke tonight against and seven who

[3:20:07] spoke for it might have been 16 and

[3:20:09] seven um one of them we didn't actually

[3:20:11] read their comment I think I just

[3:20:13] assumed it was negative

[3:20:15] um

[3:20:15] >> it was

[3:20:17] >> mayor says it was um

[3:20:21] so on the one side,

[3:20:24] I need to be able to be responsive to

[3:20:26] the people and on the other side, I need

[3:20:28] to be trusted to make a good decision.

[3:20:30] With that said, I 100% support our

[3:20:33] police and our fire. They are the

[3:20:34] backbone of our community. They put

[3:20:36] themselves on the line every single day

[3:20:39] for us. But if we can't explain to our

[3:20:43] residents why we need this and why it

[3:20:46] was so necessary, I it's hard because on

[3:20:50] one side, if we had asked for a bigger

[3:20:52] amount, we would have been criticized

[3:20:54] for it being too large. But now we're

[3:20:56] also being criticized for the amount

[3:20:57] we're asking being too small. We're kind

[3:20:59] of in a no-win situation, and I'm not

[3:21:01] sure what to do with that other than

[3:21:04] somehow we have not gotten the right

[3:21:06] questions that our our residents wanted.

[3:21:08] all of the information we've put out on

[3:21:10] our truth and taxation website, all of

[3:21:12] the things that we've been trying to

[3:21:14] answer, we haven't answered those

[3:21:16] questions. And so I feel like we need to

[3:21:19] answer these questions for our public in

[3:21:22] a better way and come back and try

[3:21:25] again.

[3:21:28] » All right. Thank you.

[3:21:31] Anyone else want to speak?

[3:21:34] You're looking like you're thinking

[3:21:35] about speaking, Mr. Kilpac.

[3:21:40] How I'm sorry I won't put you on the on

[3:21:42] the spot. [gasps and sighs] You moved

[3:21:44] the microphone. So I thought you think

[3:21:46] I'm

[3:21:48] >> be happy to to share my feelings. I I

[3:21:51] would concur with the blessing of having

[3:21:54] uh the input tonight. In fact, I've made

[3:21:56] that comment to several the dialogue,

[3:21:58] the the public input, the the wonderful

[3:22:02] questions

[3:22:04] and all have been u insightful and

[3:22:06] helpful for me in weighing uh that

[3:22:09] process along with Councilman Mulestein

[3:22:12] who who just has shared her feelings

[3:22:15] about representative and as well as uh

[3:22:18] listening and the the number of uh

[3:22:22] recent um input tonight and with all the

[3:22:25] email processes, I'm grateful.

[3:22:29] I'm also, as uh was mentioned by uh

[3:22:32] council member um Mikum that through

[3:22:35] this process of um being aware of those

[3:22:39] that are the the least among us in the

[3:22:41] form of those that are um on fixed

[3:22:43] income have uh specific individual

[3:22:46] needs. As he mentioned, there are and

[3:22:49] I've looked that's the thing that I

[3:22:50] looked into.

[3:22:52] there's about four or five uh programs

[3:22:55] that they're all eligible for. And so I think as as part of this process, we

[3:23:00] just need to make sure that we have

[3:23:02] those all available in a public form for

[3:23:05] them to easily get to to apply for uh if

[3:23:08] they find this hardship or other

[3:23:09] hardships in their property taxes or

[3:23:11] other things. Um, so but with all that

[3:23:14] said, my commitment to uh public safety

[3:23:19] uh and uh the first responders of our

[3:23:22] city having again that more stable uh

[3:23:25] base and uh not short-term dollars but

[3:23:28] long-term opportunities has uh led me to

[3:23:32] the opinion that uh with this it's I

[3:23:35] think it's better to have that long-term

[3:23:38] um stabilization in place. And so those

[3:23:41] are just my thoughts as I've listened to

[3:23:43] all of those that have shared their

[3:23:44] opinions and feelings and I respect them

[3:23:46] all and on some issues we uh may

[3:23:49] disagree but I do uh respect everyone's

[3:23:52] opinion that's been shared today. Thank

[3:23:53] you very much.

[3:23:54] >> Thank you Council Member Lamson.

[3:23:58] >> Thank you. Um and uh just to echo

[3:24:01] everything that has been said thus far.

[3:24:03] Um I agree

[3:24:05] uh on every point. Um and I

[3:24:09] uh take this decision very seriously.

[3:24:13] Um we've spent a lot of time looking at

[3:24:15] this weighing considering

[3:24:18] uh looking at numbers. I appreciate the

[3:24:21] extra help because I am not a numbers

[3:24:23] guy, but I appreciate the extra help and

[3:24:25] explanation

[3:24:27] uh and and the thoughtfulness there. And

[3:24:29] again, just thank you for being here.

[3:24:32] uh and for caring.

[3:24:35] Um [clears throat]

[3:24:38] back if I could just share an

[3:24:40] experience. Um is that okay, mayor, if I

[3:24:44] talk for a little bit?

[3:24:47] >> Talk away.

[3:24:48] >> Okay.

[3:24:50] >> Yes.

[3:24:50] >> I'll be done by midnight. I promise.

[3:24:52] >> Oh, wait a minute. No. [laughter]

[3:24:54] >> So,

[3:24:55] >> okay. Do you need to set the timer from

[3:24:56] counsel?

[3:24:57] >> 3 minutes and he's out. So, back in in

[3:25:01] 2019,

[3:25:02] um I became

[3:25:05] acquainted with the situation that was

[3:25:07] happening with our first responders. I

[3:25:10] was running for election and I was not

[3:25:14] aware that we had a problem. I didn't

[3:25:15] know that we were losing some of our

[3:25:18] most experienced uh officers to other

[3:25:22] cities. they could go to other cities

[3:25:23] where the workload was not nearly as

[3:25:25] stressful, not nearly as hard and they

[3:25:28] were being courted.

[3:25:31] And we had a we had a situation um

[3:25:34] culture was a little different then

[3:25:37] uh and

[3:25:39] we were we were really in a bad place.

[3:25:41] Someone mentioned earlier that ORM had

[3:25:43] been the

[3:25:46] uh I don't remember the word that was

[3:25:47] used but that's ORM was the place that

[3:25:49] every first responder wanted to come to

[3:25:51] work and that was slipping away

[3:25:55] and back in 2019 I remember sitting in a

[3:25:58] meeting similar to this and they were

[3:26:00] talking about a little bit of a tax

[3:26:02] increase to pay for some more police

[3:26:04] officers those four officers that Chief

[3:26:07] Robinson referred to uh and explained

[3:26:10] earlier.

[3:26:13] Um, it was very competitive then and

[3:26:16] it's very competitive now and we were

[3:26:18] losing some of our most experienced

[3:26:21] first responders. The training back

[3:26:23] then, I want to say just for the

[3:26:25] training alone, uh, it seems like it was

[3:26:28] right around $100,000 was a number that

[3:26:30] was put on, a dollar amount that was put

[3:26:33] on those officers going through that

[3:26:34] process and becoming ready to go out and

[3:26:38] do their work. I'm sure it's gone up

[3:26:40] significantly since then,

[3:26:43] but the the experience and the knowledge

[3:26:46] that these first responders carry with

[3:26:49] them is priceless.

[3:26:51] The things that they experience, the

[3:26:52] things that they have in their

[3:26:55] toolbox, if you would, on how to handle

[3:26:59] certain situations

[3:27:01] can only come through being there.

[3:27:04] And uh and so again, that that

[3:27:07] experience and that knowledge is

[3:27:08] priceless.

[3:27:10] Um I remember uh talking with several

[3:27:14] different officers and firemen and and

[3:27:16] becoming a little more acquainted about

[3:27:20] the burdens and the just all of the

[3:27:23] things that that they deal with and and

[3:27:25] that they work through.

[3:27:29] Uh I believe that as uh has been stated

[3:27:32] many times before, our first responders

[3:27:34] are the best in the state, if not the

[3:27:36] best in the country. Um I

[3:27:40] am so impressed with the way that they

[3:27:42] conduct themselves and uh and I think

[3:27:45] we're all in agreement uh with that.

[3:27:48] Um, I made a commitment to them that I

[3:27:51] would always remember the things that I

[3:27:53] learned from them and always to take

[3:27:55] that into consideration.

[3:27:58] They have our backs. They run away from

[3:28:01] uh when we run away from danger, they

[3:28:03] are running into it. Not only do they

[3:28:05] run, but they get there in record time.

[3:28:08] And not only do they arrive in record

[3:28:10] time, but they arrive with the best

[3:28:11] training, knowledgey, uh, knowledge,

[3:28:14] technology, and equipment to remedy a

[3:28:16] bad situation.

[3:28:18] And not only do they arrive with all of

[3:28:20] this, they come as a professional team.

[3:28:23] I've witnessed how each person shows up

[3:28:26] in a situation, each person having a

[3:28:29] role and responsibility, performing at

[3:28:31] the highest and best levels. And not

[3:28:33] only do they all do all of this when

[3:28:35] they show up and they bring all of this

[3:28:37] with them, they bring with them

[3:28:40] compassion or grit, empathy or a shield,

[3:28:45] whichever that situation needs.

[3:28:48] And they are prepared to deal with it on

[3:28:51] a on a very compassionate level if that

[3:28:54] is needed or with force uh in those

[3:28:56] situations where that is needed. And I'm

[3:28:58] grateful to know that they are there,

[3:29:00] that they're trained, and that they are

[3:29:01] able to do that.

[3:29:03] Uh

[3:29:08] again, I want to make sure that they

[3:29:10] have every bit of protection, training,

[3:29:15] safety, equipment, everything that can

[3:29:17] be provided for them because I know for

[3:29:20] sure that when you and I need them, they

[3:29:22] will be there. And if they need us,

[3:29:24] which it sounds like they do, I would

[3:29:26] like to think that the citizens of ORM

[3:29:28] will be there for them.

[3:29:30] Uh, not only that, but as I stated

[3:29:33] earlier, I want their wives and children

[3:29:35] and their families to know that we all

[3:29:39] have their backs.

[3:29:41] There's another side of this profession

[3:29:43] that you and I don't see, and it doesn't

[3:29:44] show up in the newspaper or on a social

[3:29:46] media post, but it's a very real part of

[3:29:49] this job.

[3:29:52] These brave men and women show up in the

[3:29:53] most horrendous of situations and deal

[3:29:55] with things we can't even imagine. These

[3:29:58] events, I'm sure, weigh heavily on their

[3:29:59] minds and their hearts and create all

[3:30:01] kinds of post-traumatic stress

[3:30:03] disorders, anxieties, and depression

[3:30:05] that we can't even comprehend. I want to

[3:30:08] make sure that they have every mental

[3:30:10] health and emotional health resource

[3:30:12] available for not only our first

[3:30:14] responders, but their families as well.

[3:30:17] I think we can all agree that the world

[3:30:19] has changed since in the last 5 years

[3:30:22] since this last study in 2021 that was

[3:30:24] done.

[3:30:26] Um, one thing that I've noticed about

[3:30:27] our police force is that they are

[3:30:30] noticeable.

[3:30:32] Uh, I don't know if there's a term for

[3:30:34] this, but I would call it preventative

[3:30:36] presence. Um, when you go to a school

[3:30:39] and there's a police car there,

[3:30:42] we don't know the effect that that has

[3:30:44] or what that drives away. what evil does

[3:30:48] not show up because there is a police

[3:30:49] car and an officer there or uh when we

[3:30:53] go to events at the sir shell I've

[3:30:55] noticed that we have a police car there

[3:30:57] that sir shell crowd is pretty rough

[3:30:59] sometimes but who knows what that

[3:31:02] preventative presence uh detours and in

[3:31:06] lots of other places and lots of other

[3:31:08] in lots of other ways

[3:31:10] um not only are they there but I've

[3:31:13] noticed that they're there working and

[3:31:15] they're building relationships and

[3:31:18] strengthening relationships wherever

[3:31:19] they are. Uh, as city manager by

[3:31:22] mentioned, um, we want to be customer

[3:31:25] serviceoriented

[3:31:26] and I feel like not only with first

[3:31:29] responders, but across city staff,

[3:31:31] everyone tries to be customer oriented

[3:31:34] and customer serviceoriented.

[3:31:37] Um, we've all taken this very seriously.

[3:31:40] Um and we're all, you know, fiscal

[3:31:45] fiscally conservative and want to be

[3:31:47] fiscally respons responsible.

[3:31:50] Um this action is not a blank check or

[3:31:52] an open checkbook, but it's in my mind

[3:31:54] it's a metered and a measured approach

[3:31:57] to helping to

[3:32:00] create a a foundation and a baseline

[3:32:01] that we can that we can count on.

[3:32:05] Um to our executive staff also all world

[3:32:08] class

[3:32:09] know that uh as part of their

[3:32:12] responsibilities they are to look for

[3:32:14] and find ways to cut costs and they do

[3:32:16] this every single year and throughout

[3:32:18] the year to be more efficient and to

[3:32:20] look for ways to save these funds that

[3:32:22] come from the citizens. We operate on a

[3:32:25] balanced budget.

[3:32:27] Uh we have an amazing team that is

[3:32:29] constantly looking into and working on

[3:32:30] grants to save our taxpayers money.

[3:32:34] Um my my concern with this as as has

[3:32:37] been expressed before

[3:32:40] um back in in 2019 uh when we were in

[3:32:44] that situation then uh there were also

[3:32:48] there was a a circumstance where there

[3:32:51] had not raises raises had not been given

[3:32:54] for quite some time and uh they didn't

[3:32:58] have the funds and so costs were cut and

[3:33:02] our police officers our they were they

[3:33:04] were suffering from that and I I don't

[3:33:06] ever want to go there again. Um and so

[3:33:09] in the situation that we have a

[3:33:11] downturned economy uh a market crash or

[3:33:15] something horrible like that uh where

[3:33:17] that sales tax decreases this will allow

[3:33:20] us to be able to maintain the same level

[3:33:22] of service from our first responders.

[3:33:26] Um, again, I I feel like uh

[3:33:31] someone mentioned earlier that the easy

[3:33:33] thing to do would be to vote

[3:33:36] uh for this, but in my mind, um it's a harder thing in my my core of who

[3:33:43] I am is I am never for taxes. I I don't

[3:33:47] believe in tax increases. I don't

[3:33:49] believe in large government. I don't

[3:33:52] believe in in any of those things. But

[3:33:54] at the same time, and as was mentioned,

[3:33:58] you know, listening to the people that

[3:33:59] have been here tonight, um there's a

[3:34:03] significant number of people just in my little circle, everyone almost

[3:34:08] that I've talked with when you explain

[3:34:11] what this is and what's happening,

[3:34:12] they're like, "Well, yeah, I can I can

[3:34:14] deal with that. I'm in favor of that."

[3:34:17] So, uh

[3:34:21] tax increases are not easy. Um, but I

[3:34:24] feel like

[3:34:26] it is uh the responsible the fiscally

[3:34:29] responsible thing to do to make sure

[3:34:31] that that we have that foundation, that

[3:34:34] baseline, and that we can continue to

[3:34:36] have the level of service that we've

[3:34:38] come to expect here in Norm.

[3:34:41] >> Thank you. Did you Didn't you say you're

[3:34:42] going to go to midnight? You got another

[3:34:44] two hours and

[3:34:46] 25 minutes.

[3:34:46] >> I might just take that time, Mayor. You

[3:34:48] never know.

[3:34:49] >> Okay. Okay. All right. Council member

[3:34:51] Millet, take it away.

[3:34:53] >> Okay, so wow. So, just all kinds of

[3:34:55] things. You should see my little notes

[3:34:57] up here. I'm all over the place. Um I to

[3:35:00] Jeff's point, in 2019, that was so

[3:35:02] interesting to hear that because when I

[3:35:04] ran in 2021, I met with a group of of um

[3:35:08] concerned citizens supporting the police

[3:35:11] that were very concerned with the state

[3:35:13] of our police and fire at that time. Um,

[3:35:18] so it it's it's es and flows. I mean, I

[3:35:23] really um I just it's so hard to see the

[3:35:27] struggle. I just want you gentlemen in

[3:35:29] the blue to know. So hard to see this.

[3:35:31] Um

[3:35:33] uh I'm going to start here. Before I

[3:35:36] talk about budgets, revenues or taxes

[3:35:39] tonight, I want to get begin by

[3:35:41] expressing my very strong support and

[3:35:43] appreciation

[3:35:45] for the men and women of the Oram Police

[3:35:48] Department and our ORM firefighters.

[3:35:50] 100% I'm behind you. Our first

[3:35:54] responders protect our residents. They

[3:35:56] save lives and serve this community

[3:35:59] every day with their tremendous skill,

[3:36:02] their professionalism, their empathy.

[3:36:05] Um, I have three cousins who are police

[3:36:08] officers. One is LA County Sheriff, one

[3:36:11] is in Long Beach, the other one's up in

[3:36:13] Heber. I have to tell you, when I see

[3:36:16] you, I think of them. I always think,

[3:36:18] "What's my cousin doing right now? Where

[3:36:20] is he?" You know? Um,

[3:36:25] so it's it's it's um often very personal

[3:36:29] for me.

[3:36:31] We've challenged our chief of chiefs of

[3:36:34] our departments, our fire and our police

[3:36:35] chief for the last four years to be

[3:36:37] among the very best because like I say,

[3:36:40] four years ago there were problems and

[3:36:41] we had to solve some things and it was a lot of communication, a lot of

[3:36:46] work, a lot of great things happening. I

[3:36:48] I've loved the last four years. Um and

[3:36:53] you know if we ask I feel if we ask that

[3:36:56] of you that we then have the

[3:36:58] responsibility to provide you know

[3:37:01] compensation training mental health

[3:37:04] services equipment

[3:37:07] um ammo you know those are little things

[3:37:10] I've been police officers have talked to

[3:37:12] me about that we need to be able to to

[3:37:14] supply facilities to help y'all succeed

[3:37:17] and not just succeed but to help you Um,

[3:37:23] be confident in what you do that will

[3:37:26] protect your life, that will be there as

[3:37:30] you protect other lives, that you're

[3:37:32] also um have the training to to be able

[3:37:36] to know instinctively what to do. That's

[3:37:38] so important to me. Um, like I say, that

[3:37:42] hasn't always happened in ORM. Um, our

[3:37:44] council and staff have over the past

[3:37:46] five and a half years, I think, have

[3:37:47] worked very hard to do that and to make

[3:37:49] ORM an a place where exceptional police

[3:37:53] officers want to come to. You know, the woman who said it used to be a

[3:37:57] destination, I think it still is. I

[3:37:59] truly believe I've seen the culture.

[3:38:01] I've talked to y'all and yes, it it's a great place to be. Um,

[3:38:08] I I have to admit I I was very shocked

[3:38:11] to read that email this afternoon. It

[3:38:13] was really hard for me to hear the

[3:38:14] struggles that some of y'all are having

[3:38:16] and to not have known about that because

[3:38:17] I'm a fixer and I wish you know I I

[3:38:20] really like to fix things. Um

[3:38:23] I um I had really hoped that our

[3:38:27] communities had recovered from the

[3:38:30] horrors of 2020 from the defund the

[3:38:32] police you um you know messages. That

[3:38:36] was so upsetting to me why anyone would

[3:38:38] ever think that and why some of it still

[3:38:40] happens somewhere. I just think that

[3:38:41] that's it's important to me that our

[3:38:43] place feels supported in our community

[3:38:45] and wherever you are. I love your

[3:38:47] picnics. I love everything you do. Um I

[3:38:50] want to just shift the gears here for a

[3:38:51] minute and you know also on it from an

[3:38:54] emotional standpoint. It was really hard

[3:38:55] to hear um folks talk about

[3:38:57] affordability,

[3:38:59] you know, the the fixed income, the

[3:39:02] truly yeah, it's a happy meal, but you

[3:39:03] know what? Some people aren't buying

[3:39:04] happy meals. um they're not getting the

[3:39:07] swig that that is they're budgeting

[3:39:08] right down to the penny and I respect

[3:39:10] that and I recognize that as a as a

[3:39:14] struggle. Um so very important to

[3:39:17] recognize the affordability issues.

[3:39:19] We've had tax increases from well, in

[3:39:21] fact, the mayor stole my speech. You

[3:39:23] know, Mayor Young, the county, right?

[3:39:26] Um, the water district,

[3:39:29] um, we're still paying school bonds. I

[3:39:31] mean, I support education. That's great.

[3:39:33] But it's a big chunk. I mean, there

[3:39:35] there's really been some multiple

[3:39:37] inflation, insurance, auto insurance. I

[3:39:39] mean, there's so much going on right now

[3:39:41] that's outside of the control of this

[3:39:44] city council right here. Those are out

[3:39:46] of my out of my control. I can only pull

[3:39:48] the lever for what I can control. Okay.

[3:39:52] Um like the property tax increase. Um I

[3:39:57] [clears throat] just want to say that

[3:39:58] doesn't mean that I believe ORM should

[3:40:00] never raise property taxes. I'm I'm not

[3:40:03] in that camp. You know, I am kind of an

[3:40:05] ideal log. I do I'm a conservative. I

[3:40:08] think you go to your budget and you

[3:40:10] trim. Um but I I'm I'm not a never say

[3:40:12] never person. Um and and that's kind of

[3:40:16] what I'm struggling with right now. Um

[3:40:19] but I want to kind of give a little

[3:40:20] background of my perspective here

[3:40:22] because when I came into this um this

[3:40:25] position four and a half years ago, it

[3:40:27] was I' I'd been in these meetings. I'd

[3:40:29] heard the complaints from the fire and

[3:40:31] stuff and um so we came up with a plan,

[3:40:34] you know, we came up with a plan on how

[3:40:36] we were going to help fund and and and

[3:40:40] um build our city hall and do some of

[3:40:43] these things that we wanted to do

[3:40:44] without raising taxes and stay true to

[3:40:46] that core value. Um

[3:40:49] so the plan, you've heard some of them,

[3:40:50] but I'm just going to review real quick.

[3:40:52] Find efficiencies, right? Strategy and

[3:40:55] innovation. Jennica's team, amazing. I'm just amazed at what you come up with

[3:40:59] and and how you find these things. Um

[3:41:01] the HR person that that resigned

[3:41:04] splitting that job three ways.

[3:41:07] Groundbreaking there, right? Grants and

[3:41:08] outside funding still very aggressive on

[3:41:11] that. Um we're still pursuing that. Now,

[3:41:13] one key that that I kind of moving into

[3:41:15] right now is pursuing not only those

[3:41:17] grants, but also relationships. You

[3:41:19] know, we were at a ribbon cutting with a

[3:41:21] county commissioner yesterday.

[3:41:23] Interestingly enough, he talked about

[3:41:24] how he funded something in another city

[3:41:26] and they weren't very grateful. And I

[3:41:28] said, "Come to ORM. We'll take that

[3:41:30] $250,000 that you gave to them. Come to

[3:41:33] ORM. We'll make it work." You know, so

[3:41:35] those relationships. I was at a meeting

[3:41:37] last week with Congressman Mike Kennedy

[3:41:39] on the federal level. Let's, you know,

[3:41:41] those that's part of the puzzle to make

[3:41:43] this happen. Better partnerships and

[3:41:45] contracts. You know, ORM provides a lot

[3:41:46] of services for fire and police or other

[3:41:50] organizations. We need to make sure that

[3:41:52] our ARM taxpayers are properly

[3:41:53] compensated with those agreements. And

[3:41:56] the fourth one is what I want to talk

[3:41:57] about for just a second and that was um economic development.

[3:42:04] We hired an economic development

[3:42:05] director. Our our other one, she was

[3:42:07] wonderful, but she didn't didn't want to

[3:42:08] do the community anymore. So, we hired

[3:42:10] this guy and when we were going to hire

[3:42:11] him, I said, I want a mover and shaker.

[3:42:13] I want somebody who's going to help us

[3:42:15] with this sales tax infrastructure that

[3:42:17] we have in place. bringing more of that

[3:42:19] and and bolstering that up because

[3:42:21] frankly we kind of dipped a little bit

[3:42:23] right I think part of it's because the

[3:42:24] state street master plan there was no

[3:42:27] remodeling very little infrastructure

[3:42:29] improvements for 5 years in ORM and we

[3:42:30] were feeling it for 5 years 2018 1920 23

[3:42:34] that that was a you look now and these the there's a lot of remodeling

[3:42:38] and rebuilding and new places you know

[3:42:40] new new businesses too so part of that

[3:42:43] economic development piece of the puzzle

[3:42:45] the fourth fourth spoke was that We

[3:42:48] asked this economic development

[3:42:49] director, we tasked him with

[3:42:51] strengthening our existing businesses,

[3:42:53] attracting new investment, and expanding

[3:42:55] ORM's economic base and doing

[3:42:57] experiential, you know, bringing people

[3:42:59] to ORM. Spend your money and then go

[3:43:00] home. You know, we're going to we're going to we're going to

[3:43:04] um really kind of create ORM's the place

[3:43:06] to be. ORM is very cool, like the

[3:43:08] t-shirt says, right? So, um he's working

[3:43:11] on that. He his directive was, you know,

[3:43:14] do do things that create an environment

[3:43:16] where families can thrive. And that's

[3:43:18] part of that. Every dollar of additional

[3:43:20] revenue we can generate through stronger

[3:43:22] business community is a dollar we don't

[3:43:24] have to ask our residents to provide

[3:43:26] through taxes. Okay. Um I I I kind of

[3:43:31] gone on a little too much. I don't I

[3:43:33] don't know that um I feel like we're

[3:43:35] still at the early stages of that plan.

[3:43:37] I I kind of want to give that plan a

[3:43:39] chance. we've got this great economic

[3:43:41] development director that we've hired. I feel like, you know, let let's we're

[3:43:46] just starting. He's barely been on the

[3:43:48] job for a few months. Um

[3:43:52] so I want to keep finding efficiencies,

[3:43:54] keep doing grants, keep making

[3:43:56] relationships. I don't think we're there

[3:43:58] yet for for um some of these other

[3:44:00] things. Um, supporting our first

[3:44:03] responders and being careful with our

[3:44:05] residents tax dollars are not and should

[3:44:08] not be competing values. We can do both.

[3:44:11] We can provide police and fire

[3:44:13] departments with the resources that they

[3:44:14] need while continuing our plan to grow

[3:44:17] ORM's revenues before we ask our

[3:44:20] families to contribute more. To me, that

[3:44:24] is sound fiscal policy. planning for the

[3:44:28] future, prioritizing public safety, and

[3:44:30] living within our means.

[3:44:33] Um, tonight I support hiring to more

[3:44:36] police officers.

[3:44:38] Um, however, I my angle is a little

[3:44:42] different to provide the $450,000 that

[3:44:45] we need. We need to find that in a in

[3:44:47] our existing budget, $177 million

[3:44:50] budget. We can't find $450,000.25%.

[3:44:55] Of course we can. You should be able to

[3:44:58] cut a budget 5% every year. That's kind

[3:45:00] of the guide they always taught us in

[3:45:01] college, right? Is it, you know, you you should always be looking for

[3:45:05] efficiencies. And we do. And we do. But

[3:45:08] I I I'm I'm tonight I'm just going to

[3:45:10] put out that challenge to do that to rep

[3:45:13] prioritize some of our planned amenity

[3:45:15] improvements. Maybe wait another year to

[3:45:18] replace a vehicle. Um because some of

[3:45:21] these things that I circled, some of

[3:45:23] these comments that these people said,

[3:45:26] um it's going to force the elderly out

[3:45:28] of their home. Um I mean, I love the guy

[3:45:31] that said, "I loved how you helped me

[3:45:32] with the bomb threats, you know,

[3:45:35] supporting our police." Um the one

[3:45:38] gentleman who said, "Let's all donate

[3:45:39] and help those people." You know, that

[3:45:41] was cute, right? Public safety should

[3:45:43] not be negotiable. Yeah, it comes out

[3:45:46] first. It comes out first from our

[3:45:47] budget. Um, but I'm gonna say one last

[3:45:50] thing. Um, well, maybe more than one.

[3:45:52] [laughter]

[3:45:53] >> He's trying to talk fast.

[3:45:54] >> Still got two hours and [clears throat]

[3:45:56] >> Okay. Um,

[3:45:59] I kind of feel like we're talking about

[3:46:01] the wrong thing tonight.

[3:46:03] I was really stunned at the um chief's

[3:46:06] comments. Um, and I feel it's important

[3:46:09] to solve the real problem. And the

[3:46:11] problem is um we've got to help our

[3:46:15] police officers and and this position be

[3:46:20] seen for the wonderful thing that it is

[3:46:22] and that they are. Um this is this is a a culture thing that we all in our

[3:46:30] community for or against a tax increase

[3:46:32] need to start pushing out there. It it

[3:46:35] is really, you know, uh it's a real

[3:46:38] problem. It sounds like if we can't even

[3:46:39] recruit, this is not about not having

[3:46:41] the money because you told me we could

[3:46:42] they they promised you they could find

[3:46:43] it in the budget, right? But um we've

[3:46:47] got to find a way to maintain these

[3:46:49] strong officers and um I feel like

[3:46:52] that's the problem. I don't feel like

[3:46:53] it's a funding problem right now.

[3:46:55] There's always funding problems. I'll

[3:46:57] take that back. There's always everybody

[3:46:58] wants the money. Everybody wants a piece

[3:46:59] of the pie. Um, but it's such a small

[3:47:03] percentage of even our public safety

[3:47:06] budget. 41 million. I'm trying to

[3:47:07] remember. I'm get them numbers out

[3:47:09] there. But, um, let's find it. Let's do it tomorrow. I mean, get

[3:47:14] those three guys, get them going, get

[3:47:16] them a car, you know. Let's let's do it.

[3:47:18] Find a way that we can sacrifice

[3:47:20] somewhere else in our budget. I'm pretty

[3:47:23] sure all of these ones that we've talked

[3:47:25] about um you know these things that we

[3:47:28] so love about ORM I don't I can't you

[3:47:31] know the one gentleman who wants to pay

[3:47:32] to help people who can't afford it I

[3:47:35] think all of us would um say we'll

[3:47:37] sacrifice waiting another year for a

[3:47:39] park upgrade or something like that in

[3:47:41] order to hire two or more police

[3:47:44] officers in this in this thing this um

[3:47:48] era of these struggles that you have. So

[3:47:52] I feel like um we have more work to do.

[3:47:55] We have more opportunities to pursue

[3:47:57] before that I'm before I am willing to

[3:48:00] ask or families to pay more.

[3:48:03] So I just want to end with my support

[3:48:06] 100% support of pushing for that those

[3:48:10] additional that additional monies that

[3:48:12] you need chief. Um if this doesn't pass

[3:48:15] I I'm there for you you know um because

[3:48:19] it's that important. you need to come

[3:48:20] off the top. So, thank you for my

[3:48:22] comments. Let me make my comments.

[3:48:25] >> All right. Thank you. Does anyone else

[3:48:27] want to say anything before I say

[3:48:29] something?

[3:48:31] Okay.

[3:48:34] First of all,

[3:48:36] council colleagues, thank you.

[3:48:40] It's a privilege to serve with you.

[3:48:42] I have really I've I've thoroughly

[3:48:46] enjoyed

[3:48:48] hearing what your thoughts are. I know

[3:48:50] that it's it's weird and crazy, but I

[3:48:53] love public policy and to hear the

[3:48:56] different perspectives and I value each

[3:48:59] of those perspectives and each of you as you've shared those thoughts and

[3:49:04] that you the the residents. Thank you.

[3:49:06] for the the sacred trusts

[3:49:10] you've given to us to be stewards of our

[3:49:13] community

[3:49:14] to of our of not just not just the funds

[3:49:18] but the well-being. It's a it's a

[3:49:20] responsibility that I take very

[3:49:22] seriously.

[3:49:24] Um Council Member Millet, thank you.

[3:49:26] You've done a really good job. Did a

[3:49:28] really good job recapping what's

[3:49:29] happening now. So, I'm going to cross

[3:49:31] that off. That is because you you did.

[3:49:33] We're doing we're doing great on the

[3:49:36] Yes. The things that And it goes I think

[3:49:38] part of it hearkens back to to the

[3:49:40] efficiency study, Mary Young. Thank you.

[3:49:43] That's a good that was a that's a thing

[3:49:45] that we've really hung and clung to is

[3:49:48] we become a very efficient organization.

[3:49:51] And that was something that as as we go

[3:49:55] forward in the budget, say, okay, we

[3:49:56] have this efficiency study. We're doing

[3:49:58] these different things.

[3:50:00] if we want to do more or something

[3:50:02] different, how does it relate to that?

[3:50:04] Um, is it the most efficient way that we

[3:50:06] can do it plus be uh fiscally

[3:50:09] responsible plus meet the needs of of

[3:50:12] those in the community? And yes, um I

[3:50:16] appreciate the comments on the most

[3:50:17] vulnerable. I spent over a decade

[3:50:20] working with those of the most

[3:50:21] vulnerable in our community.

[3:50:23] I remember teaching a class and how um

[3:50:26] budgeting and how one gentleman was he'd

[3:50:29] never done a budget in his life and he

[3:50:31] was so thrilled that he had $2 left at

[3:50:33] the end of the month that he said I I

[3:50:35] did a budget and I have $2 left that

[3:50:38] that's that's something that's very

[3:50:40] important is to remember the impact on

[3:50:43] all the members of our community.

[3:50:45] appreciated the comments. Um, she's not

[3:50:47] here anymore about how it does affect

[3:50:50] housing affordability

[3:50:51] and I and I recognize that.

[3:50:54] Um,

[3:50:57] [snorts]

[3:50:58] one thing I just want to emphasize where

[3:51:01] I'm going to be coming from here and I

[3:51:02] and uh I appreciated I appreciate what

[3:51:05] everybody said that as I as I outlined

[3:51:09] my thoughts. I saw that council member

[3:51:12] Gail and I were probably frightens you

[3:51:15] that we kind of think there's some are

[3:51:17] thinking the same as me. [laughter]

[3:51:20] But

[3:51:21] uh one of the comments that came up

[3:51:23] numerous times this evening was we

[3:51:26] create this public safety fund [gasps]

[3:51:29] uh it's always going to be need to be

[3:51:31] filled or backfilled with with other

[3:51:34] things besides property tax. Um the

[3:51:39] unfortunate reality is probably yes,

[3:51:41] some other funds are going to be needed

[3:51:44] because

[3:51:46] um property taxes I I can't I can't

[3:51:50] envision our property tax ever

[3:51:52] completely paying for our public uh

[3:51:56] public safety needs.

[3:51:59] But it is something that I do think that

[3:52:03] we need to consider very carefully. And

[3:52:06] is it something and I and I appreciated

[3:52:08] what um

[3:52:11] Miss Wilding said that just the

[3:52:14] structure change the concern that the structure change makes change makes

[3:52:19] future increases easy. And I wrote I

[3:52:21] wrote a note to myself. I said I

[3:52:23] understand I understand where she's

[3:52:24] coming from on that. that. Yeah, just

[3:52:26] because we say, "Oh, we're going to put

[3:52:28] it in public safety. Who's ever opposed

[3:52:30] to public safety and we're going to do

[3:52:32] the prop?" Yeah, I I get that. But this

[3:52:35] is where I'm coming from.

[3:52:39] We one of the first I think it was at

[3:52:42] our city council retreat was the first

[3:52:44] time well the first time this year we

[3:52:45] heard about we've heard about it since

[3:52:47] about the sustainability study about

[3:52:51] ORM's reliance on sales tax. We've been

[3:52:56] very fortunate. We have wonderful

[3:52:58] businesses. We've got a a growing

[3:53:01] community to our west that doesn't have

[3:53:04] a lot of commercial. It's commercial's

[3:53:06] continuing to grow, but right now we are

[3:53:10] the recipients of sales tax revenue that

[3:53:13] comes from vineyard and that and we

[3:53:15] don't get sales tax revenue from people

[3:53:17] coming from what used to be Spanish Fork

[3:53:20] or u more from Provo or American Fork.

[3:53:23] We don't have that. I was on the city

[3:53:26] council when we were in the during the

[3:53:28] great recession. I remember Brandon when our when our rainy day fund went

[3:53:35] very low

[3:53:37] and it's like oh no what are we you know

[3:53:40] what are we going to do and it was it

[3:53:43] was pretty rough. So the position and

[3:53:45] the direction that I took is okay

[3:53:50] what is the most stable council? What's

[3:53:52] this most stable tax that we have at our

[3:53:56] disposal

[3:53:58] and

[3:54:00] right is it's property tax and we can do

[3:54:02] franchise taxes and other types of

[3:54:05] things like that but I mean property tax

[3:54:08] comparatively to sales tax very is very

[3:54:12] stable. So that's why I have that piece

[3:54:15] here. Then I think what and and my

[3:54:18] background is in in land use planning.

[3:54:20] I've worked for cities and I would I'd

[3:54:22] argue that Mr. McInn that community

[3:54:25] development

[3:54:26] that's the most important department

[3:54:29] but yeah it is [laughter] but but it's

[3:54:34] the thing is is that as a community

[3:54:36] we're charged but providing this the

[3:54:39] public public safety.

[3:54:42] So [snorts] here I've got this need the

[3:54:45] public city. What are the most basic? I

[3:54:48] didn't hear one single person this

[3:54:49] evening council say I don't think we

[3:54:53] ought to fund. I don't think we need the

[3:54:55] officers or anything like that. I didn't

[3:54:57] hear that at all. I heard

[3:55:00] um unanimously that yes, we need to

[3:55:02] provide for our public safety officers

[3:55:06] and our first all of our first

[3:55:07] responders. And so I look at that as a

[3:55:11] need, a crucial need in our community.

[3:55:13] Even all the other departments, we love

[3:55:15] you too. I love you all. [gasps] But I

[3:55:17] understand that this need that we have.

[3:55:21] And so I look at how can I with a with a

[3:55:25] unpredictable

[3:55:27] sales tax and something that's as

[3:55:30] vulnerable as sales tax. Where can I put

[3:55:35] this crucial needing

[3:55:38] for this crucial need as much as I

[3:55:40] possibly can at this point? [gasps] And

[3:55:42] then to me it's in that public safety.

[3:55:45] It's creating a public safety um special

[3:55:48] revenue fund. So we have that yeartoyear

[3:55:53] that we know that we are we can we've

[3:55:55] told our residents

[3:55:57] that we that this is a priority for us

[3:56:01] that we're going to set this aside. I do

[3:56:04] want to express my concern later on and

[3:56:06] as we go on in the sustainability that

[3:56:08] we've had the presentations that we

[3:56:12] I I I'm concerned about

[3:56:15] the ability to to continue to finance

[3:56:20] and fund other programs and including public

[3:56:25] safety is is uh if sales tax does does

[3:56:28] decline which I hope it doesn't happen.

[3:56:30] But I hope we just flourish.

[3:56:33] But we saw it happen in 2008 and I just

[3:56:37] don't know what's going to happen.

[3:56:40] [gasps] So

[3:56:43] in conclusion,

[3:56:46] that is why I I support the creation of

[3:56:49] this of this um public safety special

[3:56:52] revenue fund. It's a place, a secure

[3:56:54] place that we can say this is where

[3:56:56] we're going to put this. Do I recognize

[3:56:59] that? Yes. Uh are there We got to be

[3:57:02] careful with that. I think that our

[3:57:04] residents cautioned us this evening on

[3:57:06] that and reminded us that yeah, it can

[3:57:08] make it easier to raise property taxes

[3:57:10] in the future. We got to be very very

[3:57:12] careful with that. And I do believe that

[3:57:17] we need to raise our taxes

[3:57:20] and raise this $450,000.

[3:57:23] Appreciate the the idea. We could find

[3:57:25] it. Yeah, we could find it in the

[3:57:27] budget,

[3:57:29] but I don't think that's healthy for the

[3:57:33] long-term sustainability that I think we

[3:57:37] as stewards of the community um are

[3:57:40] looking for. So,

[3:57:43] that's those are my thoughts.

[3:57:46] [snorts] And so, all of us, anyone else

[3:57:48] want to say anything before we we need

[3:57:51] um I really don't want to stay here for

[3:57:52] another two hours. We don't need to stay

[3:57:54] until midnight. So, but any other

[3:57:56] thoughts, questions, comments, concerns,

[3:58:01] anything that you want to say before um

[3:58:03] are we ready to make a motion of some

[3:58:06] sort?

[3:58:16] » Um, mayor, I can make a motion. All

[3:58:18] right. Council member Mikum.

[3:58:21] >> I move that the city council approve by

[3:58:24] ordinance an increase to the property

[3:58:25] tax rate approve and adopt the final

[3:58:27] budget for fiscal year 2026 2027

[3:58:31] including the levy of property tax

[3:58:32] sufficient to increase ongoing property

[3:58:34] tax revenues by $450,000 per year. Adopt

[3:58:38] the dedication of the general operations

[3:58:40] portion of the city of Orm's property

[3:58:41] tax levy to the public safety special

[3:58:43] revenue fund. Adopt compensation

[3:58:45] programs. Adopt the fees and charges

[3:58:47] schedule. Adopt the franchise tax,

[3:58:50] municipal energy sales and use tax,

[3:58:52] telecommunications license tax,

[3:58:53] transient room tax, and E 911 rates.

[3:58:58] >> Right. Thank you. We have a motion.

[3:59:00] >> Second.

[3:59:01] >> All right. Council member Kilpacs the

[3:59:04] motion. Council, is there any further

[3:59:06] discussion before we take a vote?

[3:59:10] Seeing none. Okay. I'm going to start

[3:59:12] the vote. I'll vote I. Council member

[3:59:14] Pro Tim Lamson.

[3:59:16] >> I

[3:59:22] >> nay.

[3:59:25] >> All right. Thank you. The motion carries

[3:59:27] and uh 52.

[3:59:30] So, thank you council. I know you've

[3:59:32] spent a lot of time working on this and

[3:59:35] studying and listening and I I really

[3:59:37] appreciate appreciate what you've what

[3:59:40] you've done and the executive staff.

[3:59:42] Thank you. and residents. Thank you as

[3:59:44] well. Appreciate you being here this

[3:59:46] evening. With that, I would entertain

[3:59:49] Oh, I know this isn't on the agenda. Do

[3:59:51] you have any announcements,

[3:59:53] Mr. Bye?

[3:59:55] >> Uh, no announcements. Just uh uh I can

[4:00:00] recommmit publicly that we will as as

[4:00:03] staff and as an organization do

[4:00:05] everything we can to provide the the the

[4:00:07] best value to our ORM residents. And uh

[4:00:12] despite the the seriousness and and

[4:00:15] heaviness and importance of of your

[4:00:17] decision uh tonight and the subject, I I

[4:00:20] do want to say that I did find out that

[4:00:22] by moving to ORM that uh my my property

[4:00:26] tax bill is going down by more than half

[4:00:30] per uh square foot. So just

[4:00:33] so uh yeah, ORM gives a a great great

[4:00:36] rate, great value, and uh we'll continue

[4:00:38] to do everything we can to maintain

[4:00:40] that.

[4:00:41] >> All right. Thank you. I entertain a

[4:00:43] motion to adjurnn.

[4:00:44] >> I have a motion to adjurnn. We have a

[4:00:46] motion. Is there a second?

[4:00:47] >> Second.

[4:00:48] >> A second. All those in favor, please say

[4:00:49] I. I. Any opposed? All right. We stand

[4:00:52] adjourned. Thank you.

Orem City Council Meeting | Truth in Taxation | 8.27.2026

Transcript