[0:03] Hello all. This is the uh August 24th meeting of the internal finance

[0:11] committee. Have

[0:15] all committee members here along with or Sarah and Andrea along with um Clint and

[0:24] Zach and Scott. >> Scott.

[0:26] » This is Scott if you don't mind. Yes, he's the head of facilities.

[0:30] » Oh, perfect. All right. >> And we'd like to have just a quick

[0:32] connect with you guys on something that's starting to transpire. And I'm

[0:35] like, this is a great place for a committee to hear it.

[0:37] » Okay. >> Because there's no action, no decision

[0:39] really needed yet, >> but we got the beginnings of a problem.

[0:43] Um, >> nothing major. How long has the elevator

[0:47] been out of service in the town office? >> Oh, yeah.

[0:50] » Five months. >> Yes. So,

[0:52] » we've been struggling with repairs and what they're figuring out. And the half

[0:55] the short of it is is they're still checking the board.

[0:59] » They are they're ordering a board and they're going to try that. Uh if that

[1:03] does not work then it will need be replaced.

[1:10] » Oh will be fine.

[1:12] » But my whole computer system will need to be replaced.

[1:15] » And what's the cost of that? >> Uh approximately.

[1:19] » Yeah. Over over 100,000. >> Yeah.

[1:21] » Very expensive. So, this is why we're kind of headsing you guys up because per

[1:25] our policy, it's unbudgeted and even if it were budgeted,

[1:28] » yeah, >> it's over 100,000,

[1:30] » but we have a maintenance agreement with TKE and I think what we're I don't think

[1:34] we're proposing that we would go with just them. I think that's significant of

[1:38] a project. We should get at least >> Yeah.

[1:41] » But again, I don't know if you want to go the full competitive bid process. It

[1:44] is right at the 100,000. I think what we were referring to do is to come to the

[1:49] » how many companies can be produced.

[1:55] » So yeah, >> so we bring it to the if it gets to

[1:58] there we put a summary up for the council to approve an RFP. Okay. To

[2:02] follow the policy that way. >> Yeah. I mean

[2:05] » well that would be what we would do if it weren't enough to have the full

[2:08] procedure. We would have just >> hopefully hoping for at least three

[2:12] quotes. >> Yeah. NTK of course would be in there.

[2:16] » They've already stated an interest because they have our agreement with

[2:19] that's part of the deal. They will give us a quote. Okay. So, okay.

[2:24] » Elevators are so expensive. >> Well, it's only we were talking 31 years

[2:28] old. >> How long do elevators usually last? I

[2:31] have no idea. >> I mean, yeah. I don't

[2:34] » I don't know. I think the modern boards become more

[2:38] and I think that part of when we did this is to make sure that we get

[2:40] something that is more maintainable in the sense that maybe this one was more

[2:45] of a unique system and it was you know less the parts weren't being sustained

[2:49] or maybe there's a company what we got to figure out what happened and why

[2:52] there's nothing because I just I'm surprised a 30year-old board can't even

[2:57] just be a plugandplay replacement. So um [clears throat]

[3:01] in the meantime what are people doing from an aa compliance standoint? How

[3:06] » are they managing ballots? >> So what we've done u like for elections

[3:12] was we set up temporary >> uh uh parking on the ramp on the fire

[3:18] ramp. Um >> temporary what?

[3:20] » Temporary parking. um they set up a handicap. Uh

[3:24] » we don't have an election though till next summer.

[3:26] » But I don't even chiefs usually park along the side of the station ramp.

[3:32] » Come in the safety so they could come in the front door.

[3:35] » I was going to say is there a way to park? That was my next question. Is

[3:37] there a way to park closer and have some kind of access here?

[3:40] » Yeah. >> We're not doing that the dayto-day. The

[3:42] dayto-day the ground levels ADA accessible if anybody has to come

[3:45] upstairs. We've been working with the the using the back the main street

[3:50] entrance. >> And so by law, what we're required to

[3:53] provide is handicapped access to both levels and moving between levels for all

[3:59] of the public or just to both levels like if we permanently built a ramp in a

[4:03] parking situation, does that mean the criteria or does it for our employees?

[4:08] Are we required to have the elevator? fill me in on the

[4:10] » under a new construction, you just need to have accessibility on each level

[4:15] » and we have that, but the elevator is good to have between the floors because

[4:18] you're multi- floor building. >> But $100,000 cost also a lot of money.

[4:21] » I mean, good to have. And >> I don't think they can both want to. I

[4:25] think you would have to sustain what you designed to say once it's there.

[4:28] » Once it's there, you have to >> because the state fire marshall permit

[4:32] included the elevator. >> Obviously, I just want to clarify. I

[4:34] would want everyone to be able to access all floors. But if we had a way that you

[4:38] could access the top floor and the bottom floor and there were restrooms

[4:41] available on both floors there are >> then I mean that would mean everyone in

[4:45] the public could get everywhere they needed to get.

[4:48] » We're at a better than average compliance but it's

[4:52] not where we >> So yeah if you're any questions for

[4:55] Scott or I and if not he can move on so he doesn't have to sit through our full

[4:59] hourong committee meeting. >> Good. I mean, it sounds like

[5:03] » so as soon as he knows, he'll let me know and we're going to lean towards

[5:06] just going with the board. The board could be more money and it's going to

[5:09] really put a strain on the facility's budget as a whole.

[5:11] » Yeah. >> But we will it'll be definitely cheaper

[5:14] than a >> They were here last Monday. Um they

[5:18] asked Amanda to pass on a message that they were going to forward a board and

[5:24] try that first. >> Okay.

[5:26] » But if that works, we're fine. And then what will come to council then is going

[5:33] to be what we just talked about the proposal that we

[5:36] » it doesn't work then we go forward with the

[5:39] » procedure as we have written it but >> okay it's good to hope you don't mind us

[5:42] doing it here but we >> policies and timing and I'm like let's

[5:47] let them know that this >> something where we don't want to

[5:49] surprise you if we don't have to >> appreciate it all right thank you

[5:55] » thanks >> Scott

[5:57] » good thank Thank you so much.

[6:04] » All right, financials.

[6:08] Zach, what do you have for us? >> Um, so I don't know how much detail we

[6:12] want to get into. So on a quick glance of the June to June summary, there are

[6:17] some overages. I've been working with Clint on. Um, we're going to come back

[6:21] with some transfers to cover those. Um, I think after going through it, we've

[6:26] got the vast majority of them covered. to anything significantly painfully over

[6:31] um what bringing transfers over for council approval. So that'll probably be

[6:36] um somewhere in September, I'm guessing, Flint, if we're if that sounds good to

[6:41] you. Um and then if you look at the detailed quarterly ones, um to be

[6:46] perfectly blunt, it's a little bit of a mess. There's some cleanup things needs

[6:49] to happen, but this might be a good chance to mention we're a wee bit short

[6:53] staffed in the finance department at the moment. refer to.

[6:57] » Um I'm the only one there at the moment. We got some interviews this week. Um so

[7:00] hopeful to get some people coming in in the next few weeks depending on how

[7:04] interviews go. >> Um so I'm working on cleaning up some of

[7:07] that as I can while prepping for the auditors in the middle of next month. Is

[7:12] that when they're going to be here? >> Yes. Um audit starts September 14th. So

[7:16] I am doing everything in my power to make sure we are as prepped as we can be

[7:20] with the manpower we have. I don't think we're in terrible shape.

[7:25] It's just it needs some clean up and trying to keep things daytoday moving

[7:28] and shifting back and forth between the two is certainly making the days go by

[7:32] much quicker than I'd like. Um but it's anything worth panicking.

[7:36] » And we're using a retired person that has municipal county experience taking

[7:40] some project work >> just to try to keep things moving on the

[7:43] audit.

[7:46] » Yeah. I mean I everything looks close to where I would

[7:52] think it would be for year end. I mean yeah there's some deviations but nothing

[7:56] material jumped out at me. The biggest ones I saw was in the uh planning um

[8:03] category but with wages and overages and that's I'm assuming due to the uh

[8:10] » yeah lack of uh lack of planning person. something. [clears throat]

[8:15] » Yeah. >> Y

[8:18] » Well, actually, it was also too because if you look Yeah. There was

[8:21] » we went to we went to a paid position from contracted our contracted lines

[8:26] were significantly under. >> So, that's kind of where that

[8:29] » Yeah. And we plan to use some TIFF funds to cover some of that overage, too.

[8:33] » We haven't done that correction just yet. So,

[8:36] » which form are you looking at right now? Suspense ones. I'm trying to look.

[8:41] » Yeah. Yeah. This is the failed 17. >> Yeah. since 16 ended up going over.

[8:46] There are some legal expenses there. >> Wait, just which of the four files is

[8:49] what I'm trying Are we in quarter four or are we in the year one?

[8:51] » Yearong expenses page. Quarter four expenses.

[8:55] » I don't did that come in a separate email because I have it printed but I

[8:58] was just trying to find it. >> Uh [clears throat] it's just linked in

[9:00] the agenda. >> How do I email that as well?

[9:03] » I'll go into the agenda that way then because what I'm looking at on my email

[9:06] isn't showing me paper. >> Yeah.

[9:08] » Thanks. I just want to see. So the planning I know I remember what

[9:14] are the ones where you had to move though or have a plan for where

[9:17] financing was going to move. >> Um kind of so one of them is a little

[9:20] funky is public works ended up going over but facilities is really part of

[9:24] public works. Um so kind of between the two there's enough because public works

[9:29] they're separate departments on paper but really they're pretty we consider

[9:32] pretty much the same department. So we'll come forward with the transfer on

[9:35] that. Um the fire department ended up going over but the plan was to draw on

[9:38] the safer wage reserve anyway. Yeah. Um, so I just need to adjust that expense to

[9:43] use that reserve fund. And then, um, capital looks a little funky at the

[9:48] moment just because we reallocated funds. There's stuff in reserves that

[9:51] needs to be corrected. So, essentially what happened is purchases happen before

[9:55] budget adjustments happen, right? >> Things just need to be cleaned up a

[9:58] little bit there. >> Yeah.

[9:59] » Okay. >> Any other thoughts, questions?

[10:05] Do we have some c good candidates that hopefully will start really to help you?

[10:10] » Um, I'm hoping so. We've got a second interview with a really good candidate

[10:14] later on this week. Um, I would assume probably they'll have a twoe notice

[10:18] period if we do go forward with them. So hopefully within the next two to three

[10:21] weeks, we'll have a staff accountant on the ground learning and everything and

[10:25] they have some municipal experience. So we won't be building from the ground up,

[10:28] which will be nice. Uh, >> so that'll be a good

[10:32] » And since we're still in it, you know, that's probably about as much of an

[10:35] update. >> Yeah.

[10:36] » As we'll give at this point. >> Sure.

[10:38] » Can you say a little bit about the town manager line? That's the other one I

[10:41] noticed was a Mitch thing. We talked about it during the budget process and a

[10:44] council meeting. Um, when Mitch was put into the department, he was underfunded

[10:50] in municipal when we reallocated him from the other. So, there was an

[10:52] unanticipated shortfall. >> Yeah.

[10:55] » Just the way it was budgeted. you did not have 100% of a total salary. So we

[10:59] will the balance against the town manager line

[11:02] » and so we were expecting that >> we were

[11:04] » and there is a plan for that or >> we're on budget as a whole it didn't

[11:09] » just one line yeah >> okay thank you

[11:11] » yeah for charter we're on a departmental level issue the manager can handle

[11:15] anything within the department anything outside of the departments right

[11:18] » I keep you apprised of the interdep departmental moves

[11:21] » um through Zach but the uh the department department transfers we have

[11:25] to come back and get a vote on that one doesn't need it

[11:27] » I think sometimes what can be confusing and I think like especially for new

[11:31] counselors coming on is what actually counts as a department right because

[11:34] when you look at this print out that isn't necessarily clear right so finance

[11:40] IT town council town manager >> department

[11:45] » right I know but and um and administration or no what what counts as

[11:51] what is the department type of all of that together is that

[11:55] » government so everything including shel and the clerks down stairs are all part

[12:00] of general government and that's where the actual departmental level lies.

[12:04] » That's how we present the budget. Divisions, we show it as a general

[12:07] government budget. >> But I think it's just good like practice

[12:09] for us to keep reiterating where the department level lies because it can be

[12:13] very confusing to the public and I think also hard when you come on as a new

[12:16] counselor, you know, you're going to have at least one. So

[12:19] » yeah. >> Okay. Um the only other thing with this

[12:23] is it did come up. You're seeing this tonight. the same night that's also on

[12:26] the council to be approved. I didn't know if you wanted those staggered in

[12:30] the future. I did not switch it. We agreed with each other. We would leave

[12:32] it. But are you okay? You know, it's kind of your call if you want to see it

[12:36] staggered or not. >> I would love it if we actually didn't

[12:39] see them on the same day that they go to the full council because if there ever

[12:42] were anything complicated that you guys don't already have all the answers to,

[12:47] » it gives you guys a trial run for like here's the kind of questions people have

[12:51] on this subset of council. But if that means that it's important for I mean I

[12:56] won't be here but I don't know if it matters to these two whether we meet

[12:59] before the first council meeting of the month or the second but I know it never

[13:02] mattered to me which meeting I was before

[13:05] » I mean then they just get pushed out to the following month

[13:09] » month or we meet the first council meeting instead of the second so it can

[13:12] get to council on the second one whichever but I think it would be

[13:15] smarter personally not to do them in the same it sort of implies that there won't

[13:18] be any issues that need to be addressed and if there are it doesn't give any

[13:21] time to address them Okay. Okay. Some for me, but

[13:24] » So, we'll do that going forward. Okay. For tonight.

[13:27] » Yeah. >> Okay.

[13:29] » Um, related to finances, I'm going to revisit uh something I've talked about

[13:34] before. Um but I think now in light of some of the um

[13:43] movements in the general fund that necessitated our previous discussions I

[13:47] mean is there any way for us to get I understand towns don't have a true

[13:52] balance sheet but to get at least fund balances on a quarterly basis so we can

[13:57] compare them to prior year. >> Um I don't want to say it's impossible.

[14:02] Um, so one of our goals, so kind to talk a little bit about our goals coming up.

[14:06] I don't want to let the cat out of the bag too early. Um, so one of our goals

[14:09] for the department once we get fully staffed and everything is to really kind

[14:12] of rebuild some to essentially build some more tools to have some better cash

[14:16] management, cash flow, and financial planning. And that was one of the ones

[14:20] that I definitely wanted to have a better tool for us building for that and

[14:23] the reserve balances and everything because the ongoing project that's a

[14:27] little confusing and a little money. Uh, so that fund balance is a little

[14:30] trickier and I need to get a better handle kind of how the auditors

[14:33] calculate it just because I want whatever number I'm producing to match

[14:36] the number they're producing. >> Exactly.

[14:38] » Um, so as we get further along, get staffed up and get kind of back on our

[14:42] feet. That is on my goals list is to work with the auditors to get a really

[14:45] good handle on how they calculate assigned and unassigned fund balance and

[14:49] hopefully build my goal would be to just kind of build a spreadsheet calculator

[14:53] we could just dump the data into and it would give us a number

[14:56] » and that's fine. So, I just did it. Again, I think it's important to know

[15:02] where we are from a balance sheet perspective. Um, and then

[15:07] it sounds like it's on your radar and something that we can see in the

[15:14] » mid midterm future. Non-distant midterm future.

[15:19] » Okay. >> Yeah. And I would say the biggest

[15:21] comparison is that a small town is somewhat sometimes can be quite a bit

[15:24] easier. Yeah. Mhm. >> because it's a much more simplistic

[15:26] accounting structure. >> Same premise but simpler simpler and

[15:30] smaller numbers. >> Orno gets into the size where we're just

[15:33] we're pushing what a big community would do for our financial accounting whether

[15:36] reserves, capital planning, capital uses of funds, which is great. We're really

[15:41] doing well. Makes a little bit harder, more timeconuming to do those

[15:44] projections. So should we simplify our accounting then? H

[15:48] » I don't know if we want to go there yet. I think we like where we're at. I think

[15:51] the auditors like where we're at and I think we should just kind of uh

[15:55] » yeah, we'll keep you posted. But yeah, as long as it's a midterm goal, um I

[15:59] think it's been on my goal since the day I started to go to and get to that

[16:02] level. So we can do that better. Um and again, I think what you'll find is once

[16:06] we get to the quarterly, it'll be easier to just say, oh, quickly monthtomonth,

[16:10] we're roughly here. We're roughly >> and that's that's fine. Just something

[16:14] to look at, keep [clears throat] track of where we are. And then if there are

[16:18] any substantial deviations, >> we'll at least have a track record of of

[16:22] looking at that. >> Y sounds good.

[16:25] » All right. Anything else financial related?

[16:29] » I think that covers everything from if there's any questions, I'm happy to take

[16:32] them. >> Good. All right. Uh committee charge. I

[16:37] know we're supposed to review and suggest changes. Um I read it. I think

[16:43] it still addresses what we're doing. >> Okay.

[16:50] » Um, so what is the do these just then go to council meeting

[16:55] and say >> so the only

[16:58] » Yeah. The only thing that has to go with these you have to have a report. So

[17:00] yeah, that's it. >> We don't have a report. That's only for

[17:04] committees that aren't council committees because we make verbal

[17:06] reports all the time back to council. >> Oh, so you didn't want to update all the

[17:09] chart the tasks. >> Oh, we need to look at the had a report.

[17:13] I thought you meant >> no the committee charge is fine. You can

[17:15] come back and say no change if there was a change to

[17:18] » look at that. >> But step four I would say you do it at

[17:20] the same time and saying this is where the status is of all

[17:24] » and I can do that. Um >> well now

[17:30] let's say old fire station because that one will require some discussion. Um

[17:36] paid family medical leave. >> So I think we're sat there.

[17:40] » I think you reviewed it. We are now unions have to negotiate. We split it

[17:45] 50/50. >> Yep.

[17:46] » Um if [clears throat] anybody wants to negotiate it, they have to bring it

[17:48] forward and all non-UN employees are on the 50/50 split.

[17:52] » Um we did do a contracted service with a third party. We're not using the state

[17:56] plan right now. So we're paying 083 at one.

[18:00] » Yeah. >> I think the question for the committee

[18:02] is did we do it? >> Yeah, you did it. Council made it. So we

[18:06] need to let people know it was done. I would note that in terms of filling out

[18:09] the forms, I mean, if you know what PFML means at

[18:14] the top of the title of this attachment, you would know what this form was about.

[18:17] But otherwise, the form itself doesn't actually tell us. It just says 6ix9ine

[18:22] 20225. It was referred. It says review proposal and make a recommendation, but

[18:26] it doesn't give a topic. So, I do think it would be helpful if we jotted down on

[18:30] these things like paid family medical leave. Um because otherwise I I think it

[18:36] gets tricky to know whether we did what we needed to do

[18:38] » on the report. You're saying >> on this actual form when we I don't know

[18:42] if this is what Jacob fills out or who fills this out because I understand that

[18:46] » stupid. Right. So I don't know if this is staff or this is Jacob but it would

[18:51] be nice for it to actually say not just the date but also like paid family

[18:57] medical leave, you know, review proposal and recommendation, right? It needs cut

[19:01] title somewhere or under identified question. It could something needs to be

[19:05] out a little more detail than what's out there for me to look at it and make

[19:08] sense of it later. >> All right. [clears throat]

[19:10] Um, so as we're going through this, do I

[19:14] need to then fill out the second half of the form that then goes to council or

[19:19] from a procedural standpoint what needs to happen?

[19:22] » So the up to you >> I guess the way you want to do it if you

[19:27] want to fill out the forms or not. I think this is a chance that once a year

[19:30] any reports that didn't come back you would be able to just close out. So I

[19:34] don't think you do tend to be bureaucratic

[19:37] » in the sense of go back and fill out forms. I would say just do a quick one

[19:39] page. It says hold fire still open check an update for the family medical leave

[19:45] » home resolved last year we brought that back. I can't

[19:48] remember which one. I mean that was about hiring an independent company was

[19:53] the biggest part >> right back and recommended to council

[19:55] that they do it but we just never filled that out on the for

[19:58] » yes >> and that's what's happening with some of

[20:00] them uh workers comps uh was the same I believe that was the one that you

[20:05] » we workers comp we decided to leave as is

[20:09] » a safer review uh you're still under I mean you did that

[20:13] » I think we should look at because we keep talking about whether we're doing

[20:16] it or we're not going forward so Um,

[20:23] » yeah. And this is a Yeah, you two collectively understand more about this

[20:28] than I do. So, >> the things I think Go ahead, Andrew, if

[20:30] you want. >> I was just going to put it out of the

[20:33] just a reminder that I am married to the deputy fire chief. Um, but where this

[20:39] does not pertain to his salary on whose contract I'm going to continue being

[20:44] included in the competition, >> but I think we're supposed to say

[20:47] whether we have any issue with that, need to take a vote or verbal, whatever.

[20:50] I have no problem with it being brought. Jacob, you're good. Okay, we're okay.

[20:52] It's a conversation. We're not making decisions. So, um, what I think is that

[20:58] it still keeps showing up on our agenda every month. When you look at the

[21:01] council agenda, it says items referred to the finance committee and it still

[21:04] shows. And what I personally think is it doesn't matter if they're called safer

[21:09] or they're not called safer. It's just data the fireman the fire department's

[21:13] been tracking about the advantages of staffing at six versus five per shift.

[21:18] Um my own take and I won't be here that much longer but I think what would be

[21:23] helpful to the fire department would be for us as a committee to look back at

[21:27] that sheet that they provided us the data on which as I understand it they

[21:31] continue to track and to give them some feedback about if this is giving us I

[21:36] think there's a couple tiny tweaks in there that would make it much more

[21:40] effective for them when they come to council to make their case. Like what

[21:43] I've seen over time is certain little bits that are missing, which I think

[21:47] they're actually collecting but don't make it onto that forum. I think what

[21:51] streamline conversations and I've had been in many scenarios where I've ended

[21:55] up digging through and having conversations and then going, "Oh, I get

[21:58] it now. This is actually what that cost us. This is actually what that saved us.

[22:02] Here's the difference." But there are a couple things missing that if we fix

[22:06] them, no one would have to dig. It would just sort of be right right there. So,

[22:10] personally, I would rather keep it on for us to give them some feedback on the

[22:14] data they're collecting and any quick and easy things that shouldn't be any

[22:19] more work from them. I don't think that would just present the data in a way

[22:22] that would tend to make it, I think, streamlined through anyone on council

[22:26] who was trying to really look at those numbers and understand them. So, I'd

[22:29] love to see it us to have a meeting or two where we looked at that data and

[22:33] talked about what's not there that could help. Um, that's me. Um, but other

[22:39] people may feel differently. I don't feel like it's done. I think tracking

[22:42] what those advantages are and what it actually costs us is really important.

[22:48] Anytime we hit a difficult budget season, it's going to cycle back through

[22:51] again about where's our staffing level at in every department and what is it

[22:55] costing us and it's better for them. Um, we've they've made a huge improvement on

[23:01] what we're seeing. And I'm happy to just meet with Clint, have a private

[23:04] conversation if the committee's not interested, but others might have

[23:07] feedback. And I think leaving it in a really good state for them as they

[23:10] collect this year will make everybody's lives easier from budget season.

[23:15] » From my standpoint, the safer grant itself is over

[23:20] » and we're now dealing with FTEES, not the separate FTE with safer grant. Yeah.

[23:25] » Um, so I would like to see >> title switch. the title switch still

[23:31] keep track but um I think we need to be more

[23:36] descriptive in what is it that we're asking from them what is it that what is

[23:42] our end goal that we want to see so that they have a specific charge in what is

[23:48] it that we're looking for so that they can get more

[23:53] uh not easier for them to give us the answers but it they can understand where

[23:58] we're coming from. >> Yeah, I agree completely.

[24:01] » Yeah, 100%. And >> I think we can over ask for information

[24:05] and then it just gets confused in >> 100%. And I actually think there's stuff

[24:09] that we may be getting that we don't need on the spreadsheet. I've seen,

[24:13] » but I think there's a couple things we do need that we haven't got. Like there

[24:16] are pieces where we keep getting data that says, well, we didn't count this.

[24:20] We only counted the leave that was planned months in advance. But actually,

[24:24] I'm sure they actually do know how much short-term leave happened. Also, I mean,

[24:28] it's tracked because they filled those spots,

[24:31] » right? And that's actually way more useful than a lot of the tiny breakdown

[24:34] numbers we got, which we don't really need,

[24:36] » right? >> So, I agree with you that we could

[24:38] simplify, streamline, make it clearer, title it however it needs to be titled.

[24:42] To me, there's a little bit of work we could do to clean up on our end, which

[24:46] would make their lives a lot easier, I think. But,

[24:49] » so why are we tracking the fire department at this level of detail and

[24:53] not any of the other departments? >> Thank you. That was going to be my I

[24:57] think that's the next absolute we can kick that back to council like if we're

[25:01] not anymore that's fine. I do want to clarify on the safer grants. My

[25:04] impression was we are not actually done with safer grant money. Um because we

[25:08] are still spending down the safer reserve and until we've actually

[25:11] finished that I don't think we're done with safer grant money but I they have

[25:15] to speak to that. As far we still have a reserve and that may go even beyond this

[25:19] fiscal year as money we're still choosing how to spend. I think

[25:22] » we'll be using the full saver reserve to cover the fire department overage in

[25:25] FY26. So technically last year >> that's good. So then we're done.

[25:30] » So then I agree with you that's got to go back to council and whether council

[25:34] wants to track it or not track it is a council level decision for me isn't it

[25:40] for you guys. I mean >> I mean they're the only ones asking for

[25:45] this so I guess >> yeah um I

[25:52] » uh yeah we can

[25:57] so the the the question back to council then is

[26:03] do you want to track these metrics for the fire department

[26:11] or not. And then my immediate fault would be why are we

[26:17] doing it for the department fire department and not all of the other

[26:20] departments in which case that just seems

[26:25] overbearing to me. But um yeah, so we can we can talk to the

[26:30] council as to whether they want to continue to see

[26:34] » I mean yeah >> the answer is why is because council

[26:36] told us to, right? I mean that's the answer why is because council told us to

[26:40] track it and >> right absolutely so it would be

[26:45] appropriate for us to go back and say safer grants are over

[26:48] » do you want us to still track whether this staffing at six is beneficial and

[26:53] how financially beneficial or not >> or is council no longer interested in

[26:57] that metric right and to me I don't think that's something that committee

[27:00] has the authority that wasn't what we were tasked to do right we were tasked

[27:04] to track it for this year or as long as we needed to I don't think it had a

[27:07] deadline on it and it has the title safer in it as Andrea's pointed out. So

[27:12] if Zach says safer grant is ending then it's I think appropriate to go back and

[27:16] say you asked us to track this for this long. We did safer grants are over. I

[27:21] suspect we have different opinions on the committee about whether it's

[27:24] important to track or not. >> Right? For me as I've said repeatedly it

[27:29] is the single biggest driver of our budget as a department always because

[27:33] it's a third of our staff. >> Right? And there's no way around that

[27:36] ever. And it is the department that has grown the most in staffing and grown the

[27:40] most in budget consistently for the last 10 years. So for me, whether this was

[27:46] fire or any other department, I would be saying we need to look at this because

[27:50] this is the biggest driver of our budget growth. Um, and I would want to look at

[27:54] it. But other people might not. Other people might say, I'm not concerned that

[27:58] our personnel budget has been growing at this rate. Right? It kind of depends on

[28:02] whether we're concerned about it or we're not. Fire is very different as

[28:04] we've talked about in detail because sometimes things that look like they're

[28:08] driving the budget up aren't right or are driving it up much less than what

[28:12] they look like. A lot of what I got out of my various delves into this over the

[28:15] years, right, is how many things look on paper huge and then when you look at the

[28:21] savings, they get a lot smaller. They don't go away. There's still a cost, but

[28:24] the cost is much smaller than what it looks like when you look at them in the

[28:28] budget presentation. And I think it helps them to have a clear presentation

[28:32] of being able to explain that like it looks like this but actually here's the

[28:37] numbers that show you what the real cost is. So in my mind it helps them to make

[28:41] their case. I mean the classic one was the first one where I was trying to

[28:45] understand growth in um FTEEs and what they typically would cost. They they

[28:50] actually cost a third of that because at the beginning they weren't adding actual

[28:55] hours. They were just adding people as people's hours per week went down,

[28:59] right? I don't know if you guys remember this, but that costs like a $100,000 for

[29:02] five staff people, which doesn't normally happen. Five staff people is

[29:06] normally $500,000 as these guys could say. So, some of that stuff, it really

[29:11] helps the fire department to make their case every budget season when it comes

[29:15] around. So, but we can certainly just if the council's not interested, then any

[29:19] individual counselor who is can talk to staff and staff can continue to do with

[29:23] it what they want. But I think it's very appropriate to go back with the safer

[29:27] grant title and with the year gone to say safer is no longer called safer. Do

[29:32] we still want to track you know these changes? The idea for the public when

[29:36] safer started was to it was stated to the public repeatedly that we would

[29:40] track the data to show whether it was paying for itself and it didn't pay for

[29:44] itself. It paid for part of itself. >> Can I make a suggestion? This has been

[29:47] great listening. >> Yeah.

[29:48] » I think you need to close this one and do a new one.

[29:51] » I agree. So, I think who's going to This is one of the ones that as as the

[29:55] manager I keep asking, we're going to refer things to committee. They come

[29:58] from the council. This is not one the staff should run. Okay.

[30:02] » Somebody should be somebody in this committee. If you're going to do this, I

[30:05] think you're closing this one and you're going to present a new one to over. So,

[30:08] somebody would want to spearhead that. I think that's kind of where you're at.

[30:11] So, you can write a report, Jacob, on behalf of the committee that says this

[30:15] task closed. But the committee is recommending that recommending the

[30:19] council consider a a revised proposal for another 12 months or whatever it is

[30:24] you come up with >> or it's not recommending because it

[30:26] would not be is not between two but I mean close this one and move to what the

[30:31] new one is because it be easier for me to work with what you're proposing as

[30:35] well. Okay. >> I would happily bring one back about

[30:38] what I think would be potentially useful financially to council going forward and

[30:43] then I don't I mean do you want me to bring it here or straight to council? I

[30:48] don't care because I would just assume bring it here and if you guys nix it

[30:51] then that's that and I don't need to go further or take it to council and let

[30:54] them decide. I don't it doesn't matter to me.

[31:03] » Yeah. I mean I guess >> guess it should go to council. I don't

[31:05] know if we're closing this one. I guess it goes back to council.

[31:08] » I think we're closing this one and then there's going to be a new referral. We

[31:12] go through that same process. >> Got it. I will do that.

[31:14] » Okay. So, I will >> meet with Clint because if Clint's like,

[31:18] I've already got this covered on this and this and this. There may be no need.

[31:21] » I just don't want the budget season to bog.

[31:23] » What was the outcome then? You are going to bring

[31:26] » he's going to close it. >> I'm going to close it as part of my

[31:29] report. >> Yeah. And then Sarah

[31:33] » talk with you about the details, >> right? And maybe those are pieces you

[31:37] guys have already had strategies to solve and it's irrelevant.

[31:41] » Um, but I don't want it to bog down budget discussions. I want it to go

[31:44] through budget discussions as quickly as possible would be my goal.

[31:47] » Okay. >> I won't be here, but I make your lives

[31:50] easier. >> Yeah. All right. Perfect. Okay. So that

[31:55] then that that um budget review this old Yeah. Hold it done.

[32:00] » Okay, it's about the calendar. If everybody's watching and we do that now

[32:04] in a very regimented process, they look forward to old budget calendar.

[32:07] » Okay, >> we're back to fire station.

[32:09] » Fire station. >> We started

[32:11] » where we started referred to

[32:15] » still here. So, for everybody out in the nether world

[32:22] listening, um this started when the local troop wanted to take over um

[32:30] essentially ownership more or less of our old fire station. Um council was

[32:35] generally amendable to that given stipulations about usage of building,

[32:39] upkeep, etc. Um after further due diligence on the

[32:46] um troops side, they could not get KCI, which is the

[32:54] real estate asset holding body, the scouts and the only entity that legally

[32:59] can hold assets to agree to hold the station um because of concerns over

[33:06] maintenance, cost, etc. So, and the scouts have been approaching other

[33:12] organizations about uh taking ownership on their behalf and have not had a lot

[33:18] of success. So, um now the the troops still very much want

[33:24] to take have some permanency uh to uh their

[33:30] meeting space and the station. So, one of the thoughts that I had

[33:39] is that would the town be interested in

[33:47] leasing the fire station to the Legion or

[33:52] another holding company um under a whatever 99 year whatever. So

[34:00] that would give the troop some sense of safety in that they

[34:07] could, you know, put money into, they would feel comfortable putting money

[34:11] into the fire station. Um, and then also through the lease, we the

[34:17] town would still be able to put in all the stipulations about uh community um

[34:23] access uh maintenance of it, etc. >> Can I ask a question? Why would we lease

[34:29] it not directly to the scouts which is what was done before?

[34:31] » They can't legally hold um title >> because the KCI level doesn't even want

[34:37] to lease it. Let >> the KC I don't know if they discussed

[34:41] leasing with KCI. So yes, we could lease it

[34:45] » to KCI or the Legion. And the only reason I say Legion is because they're

[34:49] the um uh they're the sponsor of this pack. Can I ask also before we have

[34:56] these discussions, way back when we got the report, before I ever came on

[35:00] council, there was this big report done about the cost of each of our buildings

[35:03] currently to maintain and to improve. What was that called? Was on the key

[35:09] » Yeah. building facilities assessment. >> Yeah. Right. I know it's a big book.

[35:13] Have you ever seen it, Andrea? >> I haven't seen it, but it's worth

[35:15] seeing. I mean, just in terms of Yeah. So, I mean, what is the actual cost to

[35:21] us to simply maintain this building as is and not sink a lot of money? I

[35:24] remember being 20,000 a year to maintain and then there was added stuff,

[35:30] » right? But I mean, I think the cost is important for us to have a sense because

[35:33] it keeps cycling back around and there's a big push to like move it out of our

[35:37] ownership. But at the same time, if the actual ownership of a building that

[35:41] doesn't have heat, right, we don't maintain a heating system there, it

[35:44] doesn't have a bathroom, right? It does it does it have plumbing? We know

[35:49] » it has none of these things. It's not an insulated building. So my understanding

[35:53] was at the time the cost of maintaining this building is literally to paint when

[35:57] it needs to be painted, to roof when it needs to be roofed, and then I believe

[36:01] there was some structural issue in the basement that they were concerned about

[36:06] over time. >> Foundation. Yes.

[36:08] » Right. So I just think that's important because it does have a lot of historic

[36:12] value to the town. The Boy Scouts have used it for a very long time. I think I

[36:16] don't know, but I've always been curious how attached the firefighters are to it.

[36:19] It's like historically their building, which is a very cool thing.

[36:22] » Well, that's one of the things I I've typed in here is checking to see when

[36:27] » right >> any of the local unions be open to

[36:30] working with the Boy Scouts. I'm wondering

[36:32] » how to keep and maybe turning it not into just Boy Scout use, but also be

[36:36] using. That's what I'm wondering. >> Right. Which would be very, very cool.

[36:40] Right. And I guess all those things seem like very cool ideas. And if the cost to

[36:46] us is really only 20 and maybe if we're dealing with a foundation and we save up

[36:50] for that maybe it becomes you know 30 a year I don't know it doesn't seem

[36:55] astronomical for something of that amount of historic value to our town.

[36:58] It's the only historic building that we own right so I guess I just always want

[37:03] our discussions to be balanced by the cost is not huge to maintaining this

[37:07] building compared to the cost of maintaining a lot of our other

[37:09] facilities that are way more complicated. And I just want to make

[37:11] sure you the the the annual cost to maintain what we're doing

[37:16] at the current rate of maintenance is minimal and is sustainable and not an

[37:20] issue. The full cost is in your share father and the building assessment

[37:25] information. And if I remember correctly,

[37:29] » it's the Orno community facilities need assessment. I'm blown up as we speak.

[37:32] And that building had a big number because the goal was to get it to eat it

[37:36] year round use with bathrooms, right? Accessibility, fixing the structure that

[37:41] was the foundation. And so I just want to make sure that if we go down the

[37:45] route of of the the full cost that is, you know, going to end up being a goal

[37:49] that the town has and town budgets. >> It's it was a big number. It was not

[37:53] small. But I think that they didn't. What I'm trying to say is I don't like

[37:57] how they split that out because they gave us basic maintenance like just

[38:00] paint and roof. And then they gave us everything if we wanted to upgrade the

[38:04] building. I think what's reasonable is we just maintain it as we're figuring

[38:07] out who wants to be involved still and what historic use and how how the

[38:12] history wants to be celebrated. And perhaps we deal with the foundation

[38:15] problem if that's getting crucial and we need to save for that. But the other

[38:20] stuff, heating and plumbing and all that, we don't I mean, people have been

[38:23] using it without that in ways that people have enjoyed using it, right?

[38:27] » I agree with Andrea that if we're going to upscale, there have to be other

[38:30] people that want to take that on. But I'm curious, how bad is the foundation?

[38:35] How urgently does that need to be dealt with? And does that give us some time?

[38:40] Because I guess I don't see what running to the VFW does. I mean, at least to

[38:44] them, are they going to deal with a foundation?

[38:47] The scouts have or the uh troop is already working to

[38:55] through grants and fundraising to raise the money to fix the foundation to heat

[39:00] the building to make it essentially a year- round space that they can they can

[39:06] use. >> Actually done fundraising for that. They

[39:09] so a couple yes um Nickerson O has um agreed to donate uh do some in kind um

[39:17] also uh Fred the Fred auto state trust something like that has funds so yes

[39:23] they're not there but I mean anything that we do would be contingent upon that

[39:28] so >> let me there's not much publicity for

[39:31] that >> I haven't heard a thing

[39:33] » but something that we could help with as far

[39:36] » well yes but they're not until I mean the the the the troop has kind of put

[39:42] this on the back burner until they can fit it's it's difficult to fundra uh

[39:49] when it's unclear exactly what you're fundraising for.

[39:52] » Right. >> So what would the lease look like? I

[39:55] mean it would and again this is also an idea. Yeah. An idea but you know it's it

[40:00] would essentially look like what council agreed any purchase and sale or transfer

[40:07] would look like in that it's leased for an extended period of

[40:11] time. However, the town has rights to terminate the lease and in case that the

[40:17] building is not maintained to our standards and we we had these

[40:21] discussions with council. >> So would it make sense? I mean, I don't

[40:24] think this one's closed. That's the first thing. This one we need to report

[40:27] is not closed. It's ongoing. And I think it'd be great if we brought this back

[40:32] for a discussion at our next meeting or if it's not the next one, the one after

[40:36] about what would it look like to get the various stakeholders in the room who

[40:41] might be interested in this building because it isn't just the Boy Scouts. We

[40:44] originally said, okay, well, the Boy Scouts are there and they have a strong

[40:47] interest, but as Andrea, I think, rightly pointed out, the unions may be

[40:50] interested. The fire department may be interested. your ideas on who else might

[40:54] want to partner if it's the VFW or whatever. It might make sense for us to

[40:58] think about getting permission from council to have like a you know a mini

[41:02] committee of people who might historical society in Noro has talked about it

[41:06] multiple times at meetings I've been to. >> Yeah. And then when we followed up with

[41:09] them as part of this they've lost interest pretty quickly.

[41:12] » Fully understand. But I think if we had ideas like this rather than say like

[41:17] okay this is the organization to partner with this one there might be four

[41:21] organizations that want to partner together right so I mean do you have

[41:24] idea other than the VFW of who might want to have at least

[41:27] » Oh I don't think the VFW cares one way or the other it's just they are the

[41:32] sponsorship for the troopally >> Thank you. They can legally hold

[41:38] property and enter into contractual agreements.

[41:40] » And it's the VFW is their sponsor >> or American Legion. I think

[41:43] » Okay, I got it wrong. American Legion. I didn't get that connection.

[41:46] » Yeah. Yeah. They their sponsorship of Yeah. I don't They have no interest in

[41:50] it. I I I don't know what their interest is, but I don't

[41:53] » But they could release it. >> Yes. They are the contractual

[41:57] They're the organization that can contractually do it. So I mean do you

[42:02] want to talk to the vir just to see if there's any I mean

[42:08] » and if there is talk about whether there's interest in some historical

[42:12] component to that I do think the historical society would also be

[42:15] interested >> and you're connected to them too

[42:18] » right whoever's doing this they have to have their own articles of incorporation

[42:22] and get legally signed links otherwise it's just the town continuing to own it

[42:26] » which is where that's where we're coming back to that's the decision staff's

[42:30] waiting Are we owning it? Fully responsible. I

[42:33] did look it up. 100,000's the low side >> and 1.5 million was the uh the high

[42:39] side. >> 100,000 is if we just do a foundation,

[42:41] right? >> Yeah. The foundation maybe touch the

[42:44] heating and lighting a little bit. Mid fix was considered 3 to 800 and the full

[42:48] fix was 1.5 to 2.5. How many years ago that's three ever doing anything beyond

[42:55] the basic maintenance and or the foundation which is the 100,000 level.

[42:59] Beyond that, it has to be somebody else who takes it on or big fundraising,

[43:03] right? >> And again, it may be just that the

[43:06] scouts or whomever, they they want to know that the they can continue

[43:12] to use the building and they want to make it so that it can be used hopefully

[43:18] on a year- round basis. So, you know, the million or something probably not

[43:22] going to do that, but they'll fixation, do the heat, right?

[43:25] » Things of that nature. So, >> yep. That sounds good. I think this one

[43:28] is ongoing and maybe we have time to actually focus in on it more now. Okay.

[43:32] » Don't you think? >> Yeah.

[43:33] » Yeah. >> I mean, it seems important. It's a

[43:35] really important building. >> Go talk to the uh fire department. See

[43:38] what they think. >> Yeah.

[43:39] » Okay. >> Do we want to keep it to junk or can we

[43:41] expand? I mean, we've got old town. Yeah.

[43:44] » No fired fzy. Sure. >> Yeah. Why not? I mean, it's the only

[43:47] little fire station that I'm anywhere in our area that's preserved. And this

[43:51] state is really historically incredibly cool. It's very, very accurate. The only

[43:55] the only caveat I'm one member of seven and how many we got on council,

[44:02] but if any of these organizations want to take it over, it'd be pretty

[44:07] important to me that they continue to let the Boy Scouts see it for the

[44:10] » Oh, yeah. That would be >> that's a non-starter, at least in my

[44:13] mind. >> Yeah.

[44:14] » We feel if there's a private owner who was willing to purchase it and sign a

[44:19] lease for 99 years or something into it. >> That's in your report as well. They

[44:22] talked about that, too. >> What does it say? says that that you

[44:25] just have to make sure there was very stringent guidelines on how they wanted

[44:29] this >> current stat.

[44:30] » How does that work? If we sold it to a private person, if a neighbor wanted to

[44:34] buy it and they said, "I'm willing to sign a 50-year I mean, they're not even

[44:37] going to be alive in 50 years." >> You'd have to draft a deed.

[44:40] » So, it means that when they sell it, >> restrictions,

[44:42] » puts restrictions, the next person who buys their house. This has to still be

[44:46] allowed for Boy Scout use for the next many years. because I believe that there

[44:49] are private land owners in our neighborhood who have verbally expressed

[44:52] » Oh, Keith would love to buy that. Don't think,

[44:54] » but actually some of them have verbally expressed that they'd be happy to sign

[44:57] long-term leases with the Boy Scouts is what I was trying to say to me. So, I

[45:01] don't know if that's still the case, but years ago, many at least at least one,

[45:05] if not more, said they would sign long-term leases with the Boy Scouts.

[45:09] » Yeah. >> So, should we also approach those folks

[45:12] to find out if they're still willing to own it with a long-term Boy Scout lease?

[45:16] Do we need to look at current market value or are we going to go with what we

[45:20] originally planned with the >> You can look at anything actually doing

[45:23] it would require council votes and would put the restrictions on what that would

[45:27] include which would be appraisals [snorts]

[45:29] » and I mean given they're going to put money into this my thought again one it

[45:33] would be you know a dollar lease >> right I guess I'm just saying that if

[45:38] we're exploring all possible options for the Boy Scouts to be able to continue to

[45:42] use the building and for the historical nature of the building to be preserved

[45:46] which is what I have heard the the things council was prioritizing when we

[45:50] got the task as a committee. Some of it might be through the American Legion

[45:55] who's their sponsor. Some might be if the unions and the fire departments were

[45:59] interested in getting involved. And a third option might be if a private

[46:02] person is willing to buy it and maintain it and say the boy scouts have a lease

[46:08] for this many years because it is very close to neighbors who are very invested

[46:12] in it not becoming >> like more housing and more parking all

[46:15] the time, right? >> So I think we should at least ask. I

[46:18] mean our charge was to find options and I think that those still meet the

[46:22] options for Boy Scouts to stay in it and the historical nature to be maintained

[46:25] potentially. We should at least ask. I mean, my attitude towards that is let

[46:29] let the pack deal with it. I mean, they they ultimately need to find the the let

[46:34] the troop find that and deal with it. They ultimately need to find somebody

[46:37] who can sign. >> I mean, I think so. Let them put in the

[46:40] leg work if they really want this building. So,

[46:43] » but I think we should >> I think if those owners have talked to

[46:47] the town, we should at least cycle back to them. How interested are they? We

[46:50] could connect them potentially, right? >> Yep. Yeah. And at this point, I think

[46:54] the scouts are If leasing is an option, they can again

[47:00] kind of renew their energy and focus again.

[47:02] » Got it. And maybe their fun >> ownership is not is not an option for

[47:06] them. So >> their fundraising is probably near them

[47:09] though if it's owned by a nonprofit versus if it's owned by a private owner.

[47:12] I bet. Right. >> Oh, sure.

[47:14] » So I mean there's a real advantage to a nonprofit owner that I think.

[47:18] » Yeah. >> So I don't think we can neglect that.

[47:21] There's options. This one's not done, Jacob. That's what we got.

[47:23] » No. And I didn't think it was, but I Yeah, I just wanted to kind of get it

[47:28] moving again because it's been sitting there stagnant for

[47:31] » since September 24th. So, got it. >> All right. Um, so from a

[47:40] administrative perspective, do you want me to just do a quick report

[47:45] at the next council meeting that we've gone through our tasks or we've gone

[47:48] through the our referrals? >> I think it needs to be a written

[47:52] something. Well, yeah, just a written summary, but very

[47:55] » I would say >> send it to Amanda and we'll get

[47:57] » them. Amanda's putting them together and they don't come to council for a while.

[48:00] Amanda's compiling them. >> Oh, so this is all going to happen at

[48:03] one time. >> You got it.

[48:05] » But I think we'll do them during the committee reports. There'll be an

[48:08] attachment in your committee report, your annual report 26 report on the same

[48:13] night. There's just a month when it's already on the count built for every

[48:18] council to look at every of our own committees reporting back like our

[48:22] charge we're suggesting needs to be amended. These are the things we've

[48:24] completed. This is the ones we haven't many reports from us and then also stuff

[48:30] from other community committees which are coming in a written form for us to

[48:34] just read and reapprove charges the same thing. So, it's a whole night of like

[48:37] council going through. >> I Well, I'm going to that's not the

[48:40] picture we took. C staff thought we were putting these during your committee

[48:44] reports. It's on every agenda that the committee can do it.

[48:46] » Not for these four for these four, >> right? That's fine.

[48:49] » Just making sure we weren't mixing the >> Well, but I think it needs to actually

[48:52] be written like for what's done and these are what's not. That's all I'm

[48:55] saying. >> Yeah. Let's do couple quick bullets on

[48:59] each good. >> Yeah.

[49:01] » And much as anything so Amanda can close out the ones that are done. Okay.

[49:07] » All right. Anything else for the good of the order? That

[49:10] » was pretty efficient. >> I know.

[49:12] » And we're the first time get done before it.

[49:14] » Well, actually, this is like our third one. So, do we want to look at

[49:18] revisiting the time that we start our meetings?

[49:23] » I would love to move back to four. Um, but I would step down.

[49:27] » Yeah. Or do you just want to suck it up until November? We have to do the time

[49:32] » completely up to. >> Yeah. I think we should just wait till

[49:34] November. I don't mind having the break in between honestly if we can like

[49:38] stretch and >> you know move and not break.

[49:41] » Yeah, he only would have five minutes at it.

[49:43] » Fine. >> Zach was so efficient with our finances

[49:47] that this time around sometimes we weren't.

[49:50] » I'm trying to make it quick. >> All right, I'm going to journ.

[49:55] » We're going to adjourn. Oh,

[50:01] » how was your Monday? You missed our Monday discussion, Andrea. Hope they're

[50:04] not open.

Finance and Operations Committee 8-24-26

Agenda

Transcript