[0:03] Maintenance. Not maintenance. What would this be called? Set up.

[0:08] I like that word. Thank you.

[0:20] Good morning, members of the corporate and finance Services Committee.

[0:24] I call this meeting to order. This meeting. Is being

[0:26] held using a hybrid model with both members of council

[0:29] staff and members of the public participating from the council

[0:31] chamber and electronically. Remind those in attendance that this meeting

[0:37] is being recorded, web streamed and captioned. Therefore, the microphones

[0:41] must be used at all times for those participating remotely.

[0:44] The clerk has muted all microphones. If you wish to

[0:47] speak, please advise the clerk via the webex chat function

[0:50] and I will recognize you by name and you may

[0:51] unmute your microphone. Members participating from the chamber may raise

[0:55] their hands to indicate they wish to speak. If you

[0:58] have a motion, it must be submitted in writing and

[1:00] sent to Jennifer Lane and Pamela. Aguilera to their respective

[1:04] email addresses in order for it to be displayed in

[1:06] our meeting. Please note that all who attend meetings in

[1:09] the council chamber do so voluntarily, and as a result.

[1:11] Of their attendance at these meetings may be photographed and

[1:14] or videotaped. I ask everyone for their patience as we

[1:17] work with the. Hybrid meeting model and trust that we

[1:20] will treat each other fairly and with respect at this

[1:23] time. I'll introduce members participating from the chamber. Good morning

[1:27] to members of the committee. Vice chair, Councilor Bradley Marks.

[1:30] Councilor Tito Dante. Mary. Petri yeah. Good morning, Councilor Rosemary

[1:34] McConkey, Councilor John Neal and Mayor Dan Carter, who is

[1:38] ex officio member and turning to the visiting side visiting

[1:41] councilors this morning. Include councilor Bob Chapman, councilor Jim Lee.

[1:45] Good morning and welcome to you both. Do you have

[1:47] anyone? Okay. And at this time. I will turn to

[1:55] the commissioner to introduce staff who are in attendance. Commissioner

[1:58] Stephanie, Senate the commissioner. Of corporate and finance services. Good

[2:02] morning. And I'll turn it over to you. Good morning.

[2:05] Chair guy. Participating in the chamber. We have Pamela Aguilera

[2:10] and Jennifer Lane, council committee coordinators, to my left is

[2:14] Michelle Brethrick, the director of finance services. We have Kim

[2:18] Villanu, the manager of taxation services. Tina Barker, manager, procurement

[2:24] and Julie McKeesak, the director of innovation and transformation. Thank

[2:29] you. And I think Alicia Bioncad is supporting us in

[2:35] the back. Okay, thank you. Is there anyone else? Thank

[2:40] you. Okay. The city of Ashwa is situated on lands

[2:44] within the traditional and treaty territory of the Mitchisag and

[2:47] Shipwa Anishanabeg and the signatories of the Williams. Treaties, which

[2:51] include the Mississaugas of Scugog island, curve Lake, Ayewatha. And

[2:56] Alderville first nations and the Chippewaz of Georgina Island, Rama

[2:59] and Boso First Nations. We are grateful for the Inish

[3:04] Nabik who have cared for the land and waters. Within

[3:07] this territory since time immemorial. We recognize that Oshawa, steeped

[3:11] in rich indigenous history and is now present day home

[3:13] to many first nations, inywit and Mati people. We express

[3:17] gratitude for this diverse group of indigenous peoples who continue

[3:20] to care for the land and shape and strengthen our

[3:22] community. As a municipality, we are committed to understanding the

[3:26] truth of our shared history, acknowledging our role in addressing

[3:29] the negative impacts of the colonization continues to have on

[3:32] indigenous peoples. Developing reciprocal relationships and taking meaningful action toward

[3:39] reconciliation. We are all treaty people. Turning to our agenda

[3:44] now. We have no additional agenda items. Are there any

[3:47] declarations of pecuniary? Interest on our agenda this morning. Councilor

[3:50] Neil. Good morning. Yes. Good morning, Mr. Chair. Cf 24

[3:56] 28, as I'm on the board of directors of the

[3:59] OSCC. And they've got feedback back from that organization in

[4:06] regards to that report. Thank you. Okay. We will note

[4:09] that one as a poll at the time of the

[4:11] public consent agenda. Thank you. Any other declarations? Seeing none,

[4:15] I'll move on. Presentations, we have none delegations, we have

[4:19] none referrals from council, we have none reports. From advisory

[4:24] committees. There is cf 24 24 on our agenda, which

[4:28] comes from the Oshwa accessibility award nomination and. They have

[4:37] provided a nominee looking for a motion to endorse the

[4:40] nominee. I see. Councilor. McConkey's hand. The motion is duly

[4:45] moved. Did you or any members want to speak to

[4:49] the item? Yes, thank you. I'd like to point out

[4:52] this award will be given during. National accessibility, we can

[4:57] may. It's really great that we have the OSHA blood

[5:01] donor Clinic being nominated, and I hope that we have

[5:04] full support on that. Thank you. Thank you. Any other

[5:07] members to speak on that item? Seeing none. All in

[5:11] favor of the nomination? Are there any opposed? See? None

[5:16] that carries. Thank you. Okay. No items requiring direction. And

[5:22] looking now on to the public consent agenda. Are there

[5:28] any items to be pulled from the public consent agenda,

[5:31] Councilor Neil? Just cf 24. 2007, according.

[5:42] Okay, that's been pulled. That's the 2024 final tax rates

[5:45] bylaw. And then councilor marks, could you also pull the

[5:50] item that councilor Neil had? So 24. 28. Yeah. So

[5:54] pulled. Okay, thank you. Other polls on this councilor McConkey.

[6:00] Sorry. 24 29, the corporate payment report. Thank you. And

[6:05] 24, 30. The energy audits report. Any others to be

[6:12] pulled from the consent agenda. Seeing none. Councilor Marks, I'll

[6:19] turn to you for the consent motion. Thank you. Good.

[6:21] Morning to you, Mr. Chair. My colleagues, staff members of

[6:24] the public, listening at all items listed under heading of

[6:27] public consent agenda for April eigth 2024 corporate and finance

[6:31] service committee meeting. Be adopted as recommended, with the exception

[6:35] of those, of course, pulled. For discussion. Thank you. Are

[6:40] there any opposed to that public consent agenda? I see

[6:42] none that carries. Thank you. Okay, at this time. Just

[6:48] want to make sure that. I'm getting in the habit

[6:54] of reading this. Okay. The following items have been pulled

[6:56] from the consent agenda for discussion and separate vote, and

[7:00] that's cf 24272 428-242-9243 if you're here for an item

[7:07] that has not been pulled the recommendation related to the

[7:08] item printed on the agenda will be recommended to city

[7:12] council. So. I'm going to move through. The items that

[7:18] were pulled. So the first one is CF 24 27,

[7:21] the 2024 final tax rates bylaw that was pulled by

[7:25] councilor Neil. Councilor Neil, you had said you pulled it

[7:28] for a recorded vote. Were you moving the motion or

[7:30] do I need to turn to someone? Else to move

[7:32] the motion. No, I'm not moving. Okay, so councilor marks

[7:36] has moved. 24 20. Seven. Was there any discussion on

[7:40] this one? Councilor McConkey. Thank you. Appreciate, councilor. Neil Poly.

[7:45] I was going to as well, because here we are.

[7:49] Of course, this has to be. Sent out every year.

[7:54] The final tax rates are listed, but this year I

[7:58] have a big problem with it, so I will be

[8:00] voting against it. It's no criticism of any member of

[8:07] finance staff. But what I've seen just last week, region

[8:12] of Durham is put together a 7.5% increase and we,

[8:17] the city of Oshua, especially the city councilors wear it

[8:22] people. Don't realize. The tax bill is divided between the

[8:26] region and the city. But also, the fact is this

[8:29] particular budget was the mayor's budget. With that strong mayor's

[8:33] power, First mayor's budget. That. Basically takes away. Any input

[8:41] from certain members of council like myself. And I have

[8:45] tried to say at committee and council certain aspects of

[8:49] what was approved and what wasn't in the budget. There

[8:53] was no mention of the $9 million. That's going to

[8:57] be needed for rotary park pool to be completed. No

[9:01] mentioned during the budget. About the 8 million, the 4

[9:04] million surplus. Four and a half million. Are from reserves

[9:07] totaling eight and a half million that we discussed, tried

[9:10] to discuss. Last Monday. So here's the thing at council.

[9:16] Sorry. So I have a right to say no to

[9:19] something. And on this one, I'm saying no, but I

[9:22] also have a question. To finance staff on the report.

[9:27] Just comparing what the city revenues generating from. Commercial listings.

[9:34] And industrial and, of course, the bulk being residential property

[9:39] owners being hit. With these increases every year. And, of

[9:43] course, increases are needed to keep up with services. And

[9:47] the growth of the city. But I had one particular

[9:50] question about. The exempt. There's an amazing amount of money

[9:54] of exempt properties. And if I could ask. The commissioner.

[10:00] What is actually, like, city owned properties? Parkland? Is that

[10:04] the total compass of what's exempt. Looks like they're getting

[10:09] an answer for you. The exempt properties are municipal places

[10:14] of worship. Or. Schools. Thank you. Okay.

[10:24] Other comments on this one, Mayor Carter. I do have

[10:28] to respond. I was quite proud of not only counsel,

[10:33] but the process that we undertook as the mayor's. Budget.

[10:38] I'm shocked to hear that it wasn't open and transparent

[10:41] that people didn't get an opportunity to ask and answer

[10:44] questions or to be able to bring amendments. Forward because

[10:47] to my recollection, there was an. Opportunity to be able

[10:51] to participate. I also understanding this is when it came

[10:54] to Rotary park, it was clear and concise in regards

[10:57] to what our commitment was for 2024. And that moving

[11:02] forward, there would be another commitment in regards to 2025.

[11:07] So. I am confused in regards to the comments that

[11:09] have been made. I am proud of this council. Matter

[11:12] of fact, I believe this council did a tremendous job

[11:15] with our budget, and I think it was reasonable. I

[11:19] don't disagree in regards to making sure we're clear and

[11:22] concise about 60% of our tax bill go somewhere else.

[11:27] I think that that. 's a fair observation. I think

[11:31] it's important that. We make sure that people understand that

[11:34] 60% of that tax bill that goes out goes to

[11:37] other entities in regards to operations. So. I'm going to

[11:43] support, of course. The report. I understand, but the challenges

[11:48] that Canadians are facing. And like I say, I am

[11:53] very proud of this council for what it did throughout

[11:57] that process. And staff, by the way. That worked diligently

[12:01] for a full year with myself to be able. To

[12:07] formulate the budget, and I'm looking forward again to working

[12:11] with members of council. And staff to be able to

[12:14] deliver it. And as many members know, I've already started

[12:17] meetings with members of council to be able to cure

[12:20] their priorities. I'm also a believer that if you don't

[12:24] want to support revenue, In regards to what's necessary for

[12:28] operations. Then maybe we have to have a conversation about.

[12:32] How we're making investments across the city. You have to

[12:36] support the revenue to be able to support the capital

[12:38] projects that are going to be in your warrant. And

[12:41] if you're not going to support it, just be clear

[12:43] about it. That you do not support the revenue to

[12:46] be able to build or invest into those wards and

[12:50] allow the public to be able to be clear and

[12:51] concise in regards to where you stand. On the item.

[12:55] Thank you. Other speakers to the item. Councilor McConkey, back

[13:00] to you. Second thank you. I don't wish the mayor

[13:02] to take it personally. There was transparency. I'm not arguing

[13:07] that. But what happened after the budget, and I think

[13:10] the main problem here is that the city of Ojwa

[13:13] budget was approved in December and at the time, like

[13:16] the past five years, now that I've been on council,

[13:19] I understood. The merits of getting in early, but now

[13:23] we find, with the surpluses that are coming forward, And

[13:26] not having really any say. It comes to council to

[13:30] be approved by staff. As I mentioned, that eight and

[13:34] a half million. But also. The fact that the region's

[13:39] budget here was just approved the last week of March.

[13:43] And truly, that 60% that's going to the region budget

[13:47] and a lot of the services, of course, are absolutely

[13:49] necessary. But when the mayor mentions that we have to

[13:53] be responsible. To improve the revenue. I'm looking at all

[13:58] sources to improve the revenue, just like the Mayor and

[14:02] members of council and staff. But there's a certain point

[14:05] which the voice of a member of council has definitely

[14:08] changed. Look at this agenda right now. Three items at

[14:11] the beginning are referred to the Mayor's budget. The Mayor

[14:15] has basically say in what goes forward. Councilor really starting

[14:19] to veer off. I'm just trying to reply or rebut.

[14:22] The tax rates. I'm just trying to make my case

[14:25] here. I'm thinking that basically. The scheduling must change. So

[14:31] we have a little bit more understanding of the surpluses

[14:34] that come forward and the region's budget, because this year.

[14:38] In a year that should be a lot more affordable.

[14:42] To Osha residents. It's not looking that way. Thank you.

[14:46] Thank you. I'll turn to councilor Mayor Petri because he

[14:49] hasn't spoken. Yet. And then I'll look to you. Yeah.

[14:51] Councilor. Good morning, Mr. Chair. I think that. When you

[14:56] get into a sort of discussion about finances and affordability.

[15:00] No one wins, especially if you're in government. So in

[15:02] this particular case, If we just focus in on what

[15:07] the facts are, I would have to say that the

[15:09] city of Osha. Actually did a pretty good job. This

[15:14] committee, the finance department, the mayor. Actually a super job.

[15:19] And I would hesitate. To accept other municipalities, in particular

[15:24] the region of Durham's model. That's been a challenge, and

[15:27] hopefully that can align with ours, because I would suggest

[15:31] that maybe their timelines and the way that their budget

[15:34] process. Was undertaken. And provided to both council and the

[15:39] public may need. To align with ours instead. I would

[15:45] have to say that it is disappointing that the same

[15:48] did not happen. In other municipalities, but definitely when it

[15:53] comes to ours, a lot of heavy lifting occurred, and

[15:56] I'd have to say. A lot of thoughtful. And informed.

[16:04] Interaction by the mayor and staff occurred here at the

[16:07] city, which produced. An impact. That would have otherwise been

[16:13] much, much higher. As you can tell by the regional.

[16:18] Increase. That was approved. In the budget just weeks ago.

[16:26] Our budget process ended months ago, which I would suggest

[16:30] is intelligent because you're going. Into a calendar year. And

[16:34] not having to go through. The first quarter of a

[16:38] calendar year to be able to figure out how much

[16:40] money you have. For that year. So. I just. Constructively.

[16:46] It's not like I'm pulling any punches. It's. The same

[16:49] thing that I've said at the regional level. I hope

[16:52] that when we get the opportunity. Staff does interact with

[16:56] us. And other municipalities that have aligned with us and

[17:01] advance a process that I think is a lot more

[17:04] sensible. So when it comes to affordability and finance, we

[17:08] do struggle. We have tools that are very limited here

[17:11] at the municipality. We've been downloaded onto. I think it's

[17:15] the same rhetoric and story that you hear. Within each

[17:19] municipality in Ontario and throughout Canada. But the fact of

[17:22] the matter is that property taxpayers are impacted heavily as

[17:25] a result of them having to finance provincial and federal

[17:29] programs or initiatives such as infrastructure, and we hope that

[17:32] changes in future. But that's part of the work that

[17:34] we're doing to not only activate that, but raise awareness

[17:38] and get the support. As the mayor has done and

[17:40] other council members. To facilitate community infrastructure and the funding

[17:47] that's required outside of the property tax base because it

[17:50] is overburdened. Thank you, other members of committee, visiting members

[17:55] of council. I'll just provide a brief closing. Remark on

[17:59] this one. I am sure that we're all concerned about

[18:04] the cost of living. And taxation impacts on this. But

[18:08] as has already been alluded to, we're now into the

[18:11] second week of April. A budget was passed at the

[18:14] end of last year, so we're almost four months out.

[18:19] And over three months into the year. It would be

[18:21] a very awkward thing, given. That business plans are being

[18:26] executed by departments and branches for council to suddenly not

[18:30] approve the final tax rates by law. Having said that,

[18:34] I'll turn to clerks now for the recorded vote that

[18:35] was called by councilor Neil. Councilor Neil. No. Councilor Mayor

[18:45] Petri. Yes, Councilor Mark. Yes, councilor mcconkey. No. Mayor Carter?

[18:52] Yes. Councilor Guyrson. Yes. Or affirmative. Thank you. That carries.

[19:00] Moving on to CF 24 28. And I had to

[19:03] ask councilor. Mars to pull that for move the recommendation

[19:06] and recorded vote. Thank you. Recorded vote for council Neil's

[19:10] declaration. Was there any speakers on this one? Sorry, before

[19:12] I. Jump ahead. Councilor McConky, I have a question. So

[19:17] when this now. Is basically being reported. In the reporting

[19:22] of the Oshwa strategic plan. When the city does see

[19:26] Oshwak's, strategic plan, which we are doing right now. Should

[19:32] be coming forward. I think we have the date. But

[19:36] that's once every four years. Basically three or four or

[19:39] five years. Depending on what timeline you pick. So does

[19:45] that mean that the update on actions to address poverty

[19:48] are only going to be reported? When. The city approves

[19:53] an Oshwa strategic, so we'll be getting annual updates on

[19:56] the strat plan. That exists once it's passed each year.

[20:00] This will now get embedded in that update, so. There

[20:03] will be annual updates. On these actions. And I'm just

[20:08] wondering if there could be a bit of. An info

[20:13] package. Not package. What do you call it? Infogram. Because

[20:18] going through these items. It's nice to see the list,

[20:22] but just for a little more so it can be.

[20:24] Promoted better because a lot of people ask what is

[20:28] the city doing to address and then to find it

[20:32] now when it's part of the strategic plan reporting. Next

[20:35] time, maybe we'll. Have a little bit more of a

[20:39] marketing kind of like, I don't know. The correct word

[20:41] to describe what I'm trying to get through, but it's

[20:44] nice. To. People don't like to spend a lot of

[20:47] time reading dense reports or lists and lists. Like if

[20:51] there was some one page infograph. That's kind of because

[20:55] this is a concern to everybody how the city of

[20:58] Oshawa is addressing poverty. Thank you. Sure. I'm sure staff

[21:03] have noted those comments and that can be part of.

[21:09] The things that could be brought forward. I'm a big

[21:12] fan of making information digestible for the public as well.

[21:17] And I do think that as our communications team has

[21:20] been staffing up. As proved through the last couple of

[21:25] budget cycles. Part of it has been to be able

[21:27] to create good material. For public consumption. Councilor marks, you

[21:31] had your hand up. Thank you very much. Just briefly,

[21:33] Mr. Chairman, I'd like to commend staff on number nine,

[21:35] which is the property tax. Surveyors payment program. This is

[21:39] a very good tool for people to catch up on

[21:41] their property. Taxes should they fall into arrears. I can

[21:43] tell you, as a real estate practitioner in Durham region.

[21:46] This is quite the case. We are seeing a lot

[21:48] of power. Sale. Applications move forward by big banks who

[21:53] are ruthless in making sure that they collect. So this

[21:56] is nice to see that the city of OShA has

[21:58] implemented this program, which is further to affect. The recent

[22:04] state of the economy. And affordability. What seems to be.

[22:10] A big area right now to focus upon, but I

[22:13] just wanted to commend staff on number nine and happy

[22:16] to vote yes on this recommendation. Thank you. Thank you,

[22:19] Councilor Marks. Any other members of committee. Visiting members. I'll

[22:24] just maybe echo the commendation to staff on the report

[22:28] as a whole. One of the items that I find

[22:30] is often missing. In this type of. Inventory is all

[22:38] the preventative work that we do. So if you look

[22:40] at our recreation programs, Our arts camps and programs. Funding

[22:45] into arts and culture and many of the programs, by

[22:48] extension, that they run. And through our libraries. What's the

[22:51] old saying? Announce of prevention is worth a pound of

[22:53] cure. And as a municipality. I think we do as

[22:56] well as funding OSCC. These are all preventative. These are

[23:00] the things that help to keep people both out of

[23:03] poverty. And to enrich their lives so that. Their long

[23:09] term trajectory is improved upon. So again, thank you to

[23:12] staff for preparing these particular initiatives. And I will turn

[23:16] now to the committee for vote. Are there any in

[23:19] opposition to this item? Oh, sorry. Thank you. Recorder vote

[23:24] call by councilor Mars. Councilor mark. Yes. Councilor Mary Pittree.

[23:31] Councilor McConkey. Yes. Councilor Neil has a declaration. Mayor Carter?

[23:37] Yes. Councilor Geverson? Yes. Five. Affirmative. Thank you. That carries.

[23:42] Moving on now to CF 24 29. And that was

[23:46] pulled by. Councilor McConkey. Thank you. Discontinuing the court. Sorry.

[23:53] Are you moving the motion? That's. I have actually sent

[23:57] an alternate motion. Okay, so give us a moment. We're

[24:00] going to get that on screen.

[24:19] Okay, just briefly here. So there is one part. That.

[24:33] I think that we have to strike the last sentence

[24:35] just because. It isn't really for any of us on

[24:39] committee. To state. What the staffing requirements are for something,

[24:49] but the rest of the material part of the motion.

[24:53] Is in order for the moment. Mr. Chair, can I

[25:02] call point of order? Yeah, go ahead. Just to have

[25:04] your review. Of. Designate something confidential, does it fall in

[25:13] line with the confidential areas of the procedural bylaw which

[25:17] we afforded to under the Municipal act. Just by merely

[25:20] pointing something as confidential, my contention would be and I

[25:24] would look for your ruling on this, is that this

[25:26] is out of order because it does not fall into

[25:28] the maxims of. What is deemed confidential under the procedural

[25:32] bylaw. And I think also the municipal act as well,

[25:37] too. And having had no chance. To really get appropriate

[25:42] staff. Feedback on the procedural side of this because. The

[25:49] item just came in this morning. Maybe I could help

[25:53] if this is referred to. Stop, because this is the

[25:56] exact wording from a report in 2015. So. If it

[26:06] could be, I think the essence of. Okay. Everything in

[26:11] quotes there. So anyhow, if I read it out loud,

[26:14] in keeping with the role of counsel to exercise its

[26:18] supervised refunction rather than discontinue reporting. The corporate payment records

[26:22] to counsel that the wording from a 2015 staff recommendation

[26:26] and report finance. What I'm. And if I could read

[26:11] it out loud. I'm sorry, which part? Is from the

[26:13] 2015 report.

[26:29] Fin 1582, which was proposed for the practice of producing

[26:34] corporate payment records that the monthly corporate payment reports. Be

[26:38] prepared as a confidential payment report to the finance committee

[26:42] now. Corporate and finance committee. But back then it was

[26:46] finance committee outlining monthly expenditures considered confidential and such report

[26:51] will be available on the city's secured shared drive for

[26:54] all counselors in the mayor to review the confidential report

[26:58] will require. Minimal monthly staffing efforts and will replace the

[27:02] existing format of the public report. This is an issue

[27:05] that I've been involved in as a private citizen. Back

[27:10] in 2015. And then. Have you ruled if you're accepting

[27:15] this or not, or if the conference now that I

[27:17] understand, the better the part that. This was a quote

[27:22] from a previous report. And. I think what committee needs

[27:27] to do is ask staff questions on the. Thank you,

[27:30] sir. Okay. Do I still have the floor? Thank you.

[27:36] So discontinuing the practice. I understand. It's a lot of

[27:41] paperwork. That. Is reproduced. And it used to go on

[27:46] the info package. But I find asking questions is the

[27:50] way we basically make better decisions. Finding out as much

[27:55] information as we can. And taking this away is something.

[28:01] That. Is problematic in a lot of ways. The financial

[28:05] oversight section. In the report 5.3, it says council has

[28:10] significant oversight related to the payments. It's not actually council

[28:14] that has the purchase orders and we have to ask.

[28:18] For the packing slips, the whole list that goes on

[28:21] there. I ask because I don't have access to the

[28:25] bids and tenders to see the scope of certain things.

[28:29] We approve them at committee. But we don't know in

[28:33] the end, normally. Except there is one report today. On

[28:41] the agenda. I know I'm getting a little off track.

[28:46] I'm just finding that. We need to have as much

[28:49] information as possible. When we're making decisions here. And. If

[28:56] council. Sorry. The main thrust of this is that. There's

[29:00] some cybersecurity elements to it, but city has spent a

[29:03] lot of money on cybersecurity. And the fact that it's

[29:08] time consuming for staff. The city has spent money on

[29:12] new hires for finance. I don't see this as onerous.

[29:17] I think. It's integral to the role of council members

[29:21] to have this oversight, knowing what happens in other municipalities.

[29:25] On occasion. In the past, there was an issue. In

[29:29] the city of Oshawa, and it's just to make sure

[29:34] that. There may be monthly reports, and I appreciate the

[29:38] fact that the finance staff put. Quarterly reports in, and

[29:44] I believe seeing those confidentially. Is great, but. To actually

[29:50] stop producing that. And I know the report mentions the

[29:53] other municipalities. Only. Brock does that provides the rule to

[29:59] the mayor in Brock and the other municipalities are not

[30:02] reporting on the check rules. But here's the thing. Just

[30:06] because others aren't, I actually. Think we have to give

[30:10] Oshwa credit that we do this. It's so important nowadays.

[30:14] To ensure that. There is the transparency. And without transparency,

[30:21] There's no accountability. We wear it. If we find out

[30:24] that. Something's gone amiss, and hopefully that doesn't happen under.

[30:29] Our term. But there's other terms. There's other. Situations that

[30:36] we have to plan for the future. And. I think

[30:40] that. There's really. The interest should be there in keeping

[30:45] this moving forward. There was a time when they were

[30:48] talking about doing away with it. And public came forward.

[30:54] Right now, we're in a situation where we don't have

[30:57] much media coverage on what's going on? I don't know

[31:01] how transparent this is right now before the public, but

[31:06] why take it? Away. I just don't believe that. It's

[31:10] the best move here for us. So I will be

[31:12] voting against the report if this motion. Is not either

[31:17] referred or if it's not accepted. I rew the day,

[31:23] actually, when this sort of thing happens, because. We have

[31:27] such. I mean, we're looking through things now, like I've

[31:30] said this. Before through a pinhole. We need to have

[31:32] better overview on certain things, so that's. All I have

[31:36] to say. Thank you. Thank you, councilor. I saw councilor

[31:39] marks hand. Yeah. Briefly. I can't support this motion without

[31:43] vetting the wording of the 2015 motion. That was brought

[31:47] forward. We can't marry it up. We don't know. Why

[31:50] the staff were indicating that the 2015 report create this

[31:54] as a confidential payment report. You marry? Up the motion

[31:58] against the legislation and against the procedural bylaw to see

[32:00] if it falls into the confidential wording. I've spoken to

[32:03] the commissioner. These aren't confidential reports. They are given. I've

[32:08] also been assured by the commissioner if any one of

[32:10] us or any one of our colleagues. Has any sort

[32:13] of information that they require on corporate payments. I'm sure

[32:16] the commissioner team would respond. In lightning quick with those

[32:19] information. Members of the public also have the ability to

[32:23] come into the city, make a request, and get the

[32:26] information that they need. They have to be pretty precise

[32:28] because it is a lot of breadth. Information, but. There's

[32:32] certainly the transparency element. I'm just not buying that argument

[32:35] today, I think. It's a situation where this information is

[32:38] available if members of the committee or council request this

[32:41] information, you contact the commissioner and her team, and I'm

[32:44] sure it will be provided. But to vote this and

[32:47] make it confidential, I'm just not going to support that.

[32:50] Thank you. Other members. Of the committee, any visiting members

[32:56] of council. Okay. For a second time, Councilor McConky. Well,

[33:00] if have members not comfortable, I would like to refer

[33:03] this back to staff to investigate because there's no mention

[33:07] of the report from 2015, so I'm referring it back.

[33:10] So. You're moving a referral motion. Referral of the motion

[33:14] that I've put forward. Yes, that's understood. Thank you. So

[33:18] there's a referral. Recorded vote, please. Okay, councilor McConk has

[33:22] called for a recorded vote. On the referral. Councilor mcconkey.

[33:30] Yes, councilor mayor petri. Councilor mark. No, councilor neil. Yes.

[33:36] Mayor carter, no. Councilor guyberson, no. Ferrell. Okay. Sorry, the

[33:42] referral fails. So I think that right now what we

[33:45] have is this item. Were there any other speakers on

[33:50] the replacement motion? Councilor McConaughey, would you like a recorded

[33:53] vote on the motion? I would. Okay. Is lane back

[33:59] to you. On the replacement motion, Councilor McConkey. The replacement

[34:08] motion being the motion. This is what's in front of

[34:09] us. So this would be the motion for the item

[34:14] on the agenda? Yes. Councilor mayor Petri. Councilor Mark? No.

[34:22] Councilor Neil. Yes. Mayor Carter? No. Councilor Gerson. Four negative.

[34:30] Okay, so the item fails. Councilor marks. So councilor Marks

[34:34] has moved the recommend. Recommendation. Did you want to speak

[34:39] to the item? Members of committee on the item recorded

[34:42] vote, please. Okay. Councilor McConky has asked for a recorded

[34:45] vote. Are there any? Further on the report. I will

[34:49] just provide. One closing remark on this one as well,

[34:55] in terms of. Both the content and the intent of

[34:59] the report. I think. It's important to recall that council's

[35:06] role. We approve bylaws and policies. And we have oversight

[35:09] of procedure. But ultimately it's up for staff to execute

[35:13] on those. And as the report highlights, There are an

[35:17] abundance of processes and checks. And redundancies built into the

[35:24] system. The other thing that I want to note on

[35:27] this item is that. As our municipality grows, we have

[35:32] to decide what exercises produce value for the city and

[35:35] for the community. And sometimes it means taking a look

[35:38] at things that might be in this case. 60 year

[35:43] old policies. And determining is this actually. Producing value for

[35:49] the community and for the municipality? Or could staff resources

[35:53] be deployed in ways that might be more strategic. And

[35:57] policy driven and improvement initiative driven. So I think that's

[36:03] the other part of this item that underlies the intent.

[36:07] So every court of vote has been called by Councilor

[36:09] McConky. On the main motion. As pursuant to report cf.

[36:17] 24 29, Councilor McConkey. No, councilor. Mayor Petri. Sorry. Can

[36:25] you hit the microphone for that, just so it's on?

[36:28] Yes. Thank you, councilor. Marks? Yes. Councilor Neil? No. Mayor

[36:36] Carter? Yes. Councilor Guyberson, yes to four. Affirmative. Thank you.

[36:40] That item carries. Moving on to the last item pulled,

[36:44] which is CF 24 30, contract award c. 2024. 14

[36:52] energy audits, and that was also pulled by councilor McConkey.

[36:55] Councilor McConkey are you moving the item? Yes. I just

[36:59] had some questions of staff. Sure you have. The floor.

[37:02] And. Through you two. Commissioner, Senate. I sent a request

[37:08] in asking about. The. Deep dive into the. Energy. Looking

[37:16] for. That email that you sent me yesterday. I'm asking

[37:22] how it compares to. This report and the audit that's

[37:28] being done. What's the difference?

[37:38] Commissioner. Sorry, can you repeat the question? It's not clear

[37:42] to me. Okay, so I had asked you. About another

[37:49] energy audit. I'm just trying to find the email that

[37:53] you sent, because that was. The number. And I'm having

[38:00] trouble finding my pages here.

[38:15] This energy audit. Is basically related to Project 1085. And

[38:24] the one that I sent and asked about. And you

[38:29] replied, giving me. The financial. Approval. And the

[38:39] rfp. What project number was that? Commissioner.

[38:50] It was project ten. 86, as was approved in the

[38:55] 2024 capital budget. Thank you. So can you explain to

[38:59] me the difference between Project 100 zero 85 and 100

[39:03] zero 86 because they're both for a lot of money.

[39:08] And it's not clear to me the difference what's being

[39:12] accomplished. I'll turn to the commissioner for this, but this

[39:16] really is about. Approving the outcome of the RFP for

[39:21] this item. So maybe if the commissioner could answer. In

[39:24] brief, but I don't want us to go too far

[39:26] down the road on a different capital budget item.

[40:13] So I believe the difference between the two is that

[40:17] one looks at sort of energy consumption in terms of.

[40:22] Reducing. The amount of energy that we would use in

[40:26] a facility, and the other one deals with decarbonization. Of

[40:29] a building. Okay, so the total between the two is

[40:33] spread over. A number of years and a lot of

[40:37] money. And in my request, when I was asking for

[40:40] the RFP. For the. I didn't hear back. Is this?

[40:49] Particular report that we have on the agenda. Is it

[40:52] phased? The total amount. Being a lot more than what's

[40:57] here. 100. And 50. Not to exceed 150. So when

[41:07] this is contracted, does it continue with. The same. Supplier,

[41:13] I guess. Lots of better word. The procurement was issued.

[41:22] For. 2024. At energy audits for initial one year term.

[41:29] With the option to renew, so it's not going back

[41:31] out for another RFp. When this goes through. Is this

[41:35] correct that we are sticking with. The same commissioner provider.

[41:40] Through you. Chair Garberson yes, we would continue with the

[41:43] same provider, provided that we have satisfactory service, satisfactory pricing,

[41:48] and capital a budget. And so the total amount of

[41:53] this audit over the course of what number of years

[41:57] was it? Four years. Four years. The total amount. Could

[42:01] you give it to me again, please? Over four years

[42:04] would be $1 million. And the other one that we

[42:07] were looking at. Similar going to the different facilities doing

[42:12] an energy audit. But also for an extended period of

[42:16] time. Sorry, which other one you're referring to? The other

[42:24] capital project. Exactly. I'm just. But I'd like to know

[42:29] what we're spending on energy audits at this. Point in

[42:32] time. The item that's in front of us is. 85

[42:39] and approving the RFP for that. Right. So the RFP

[42:42] for 150 or the award of contract. Is really 150.

[42:48] But. We just heard it. Over four years. Yes. I've

[42:54] been saying, instead of looking narrowly, I like to see

[42:57] a larger picture here. So. Thank you for that information.

[43:00] That's what I was looking for. Okay. Thank you. Anyone

[43:03] else? On this item, on the award of contract. See

[43:08] none. All in favor? Any opposed? Seeing none that carries.

[43:16] Okay, moving on to items introduced by councilors. I will

[43:25] turn to councilor, mayor and Petrieus on your hand. Yeah,

[43:28] nothing to introduce. I just wanted to compliment you in

[43:30] the work that you're doing with staff. Did a great

[43:32] job today in the meeting, and I think that our

[43:34] finance staff has been under pressure. And has done an

[43:38] excellent job in being able to deliver. Both our core

[43:42] services and a number of capital projects which I think

[43:45] are going to benefit the community into the future, so.

[43:49] I just want to acknowledge that chair. Thank you, councilor.

[43:52] And hopefully the commissioner can convey that. To the finance

[43:55] team and the director. Okay. Sorry. Items introduced by councilor.

[43:59] So, Councilor McConky. Yes. Thank you. I believe you had

[44:03] three items that you sent in, so we're going to.

[44:05] Do them one at a time. I don't know if

[44:07] you had the chance to see. My email. The third

[44:09] one, I don't think it would be an order because

[44:12] there's an item pretty much identical to that that's coming

[44:14] forward to the Eds committee, actually. It's not identical. We'll

[44:17] come to that one when we do, but let's. Start

[44:19] with them in order that they were sent. Thank you.

[44:22] Just a moment while we get that first one on

[44:24] screen.

[44:38] Just one moment, committee.

[44:58] Yeah. So, just so you are aware in advance, the

[45:05] first item. The deputy city clerk has recommended that this

[45:11] be referred. To to clerk staff for a report. But

[45:17] we'll get it on screen first. And do this one

[45:21] step at a time here.

[45:37] Okay. So, Councilor McConkey, did you want to read that

[45:40] motion? Thank you. In keeping with the city's commitment to

[45:42] be an accessible place of employment and removing barriers. I

[45:45] don't think we need the comma, that AShwa accessibility Advisory

[45:49] committee, OAAC members be permitted virtual participation at all meetings.

[45:54] Access. Without a restriction of notifying clerks Department 24 hours

[45:59] prior to an OAAc meeting. This actually came as a

[46:05] shock to members of the OAAC last month when they

[46:08] were told. They needed to notify the clerks 24 hours

[46:15] prior had not been in practice before. And other members

[46:20] of the committee actually wanted to make the motion. But

[46:24] as Jennifer will recall, Committee was told that no, it

[46:29] had to. They could not make a motion to counsel

[46:32] on something. That. Is council policy. But the council policy

[46:37] that may be there, which I actually don't agree with

[46:40] at this. Point. It came early. After Covid, but it

[46:44] was never put into practice at the oaac. Members of

[46:48] the oaac. Are very dedicated, give a lot of time.

[46:55] Come to the city hall when they can. And some

[46:59] of them are in not good health. And still come.

[47:03] But others. Things crop up. Not only health issues, but.

[47:10] Weather issues. The meeting, actually, when this was discussed. There

[47:17] was a snow event which was unexpected. This winter has

[47:20] been kind of erratic that way. We've had lots of

[47:22] fine weather, and then when the snow comes, sometimes it's

[47:25] been a bit of a surprise, and the snow started

[47:27] in the afternoon, and by the time for the evening

[47:31] committee meeting. Some were thinking that they may not be

[47:35] able to get to the committee meeting and hadn't. Called

[47:38] in ahead. Because like I said, In march. This was

[47:42] basically a notice that all members received. And I have

[47:47] discussed some of this. With staff. I just believe at

[47:51] this point, virtual meetings are such a thing. I mean,

[47:54] staff have the ability. To come to work or work

[47:59] from home. Virtual is. Part of the everyday workplace now.

[48:05] And I believe that members of. The clerk's department. Who

[48:13] are monitoring a meeting would be able to make sure

[48:17] there's a connection. If it might be a matter of

[48:21] tuning things up and plugging something in, but I believe

[48:24] hopefully it's something that all clerks. Staff are able to

[48:29] do to ensure that. We have the. You know how

[48:33] awkward it is when committee has a problem with connections,

[48:38] but I. Think we've gotten better at it. It's been

[48:41] a fair number of meetings since. The first policies about

[48:46] virtual meetings came in. And especially with this particular committee,

[48:51] who I know the members well. Now, after five years,

[48:56] Serving with them. There's no more dedicated people on an

[49:01] advisory committee than on the OAAC, and they were upset,

[49:06] and I'm embarrassed that they were, that they were told

[49:09] that they have to call in 24 hours before an

[49:12] OAAC meeting. Those are my comments, and I'm not sure

[49:16] why. This is a corporate policy. Why it would not

[49:19] be before this committee. Thank you. Thank you. Is there

[49:27] any other speakers? I probably turn to committee just based

[49:30] on the deputy clerk's. Suggestion that I have in an

[49:34] email that it be referred to staff for report. Is

[49:38] that councilor Mark did. I agree with the motion in

[49:41] spirit, certainly. The 24 hours policy that was in place.

[49:45] Just to refresh my memory. Because I know often if

[49:49] I call and there's a meeting, the clerk set up

[49:52] a telephone conference. I don't get that email straight away,

[49:55] so I don't know if it's a logistical issue that

[49:58] maybe these hours couldn't be manipulated to certainly create. A

[50:02] situation where people feel like they have some accessibility to

[50:04] the meeting, but I just don't. Know the 24 hours.

[50:08] Prior. Is that something that staff require or is it

[50:11] something that can be a bridge? Certainly to this case.

[50:17] And I'm happy to take your direction or your concern

[50:19] on this, Mr. Chair. I do agree with the motion

[50:22] spirit. Yeah. And just for clarification, part of it is

[50:27] in the procedure bylaw. So I think that that's probably

[50:31] why the deputy city clerk is asking for it to

[50:33] be referred so that they can figure out what the

[50:35] moving parts are, because some of it is as you're

[50:38] alluding to, would be operational. But then some of it's

[50:40] actually embedded in the procedure bylaw and. It isn't so

[50:43] much. 24 hours prior notice it's a noon the previous

[50:47] day. Previous business day. So order referral. Complicate councilor McConkey's

[50:55] ability to have the next advisory committee meeting. Or would

[50:58] we? I think in any case, there would have to

[51:00] be a look at it, would take some time in

[51:03] any case, because it would both be operational. That would

[51:05] have to be looked. At and the procedural bylaw. Can

[51:07] somebody tell me when the next accessibility advisory committee meeting

[51:10] is? Monthly, are they? Not usually. It's the first 3rd

[51:13] week. Yeah, it's coming up. Yeah. So, I mean, the

[51:16] next one is coming up shortly in any case, I

[51:18] think this will take a bit of time for staff.

[51:21] To. Those are my question, okay? Would there be a

[51:26] referral motion? Okay. Mayor Carter has moved a referral. All

[51:34] in favor of the referral? Opposed. See one hand. Opposed?

[51:41] Recorded vote, please. Okay, recorded vote. We'll give a record

[51:45] of over this one for Councilor McCaukey. Thank you. Councilor

[51:50] McConkey. No. Councilor man Petri? No. Councilor marks? Yes. Councilor

[52:00] Neil? No. Mayor Carter? No. Councilor Guyrson? Yes. That. Two.

[52:09] Affirmative or negative? Okay, the referral doesn't carry, so now

[52:13] we have. The item that's here. Okay. A record vote

[52:18] on the item. And I want to take one last

[52:21] look at it here to make sure that I know

[52:23] what I'm voting on. So. The difficulty here

[52:33] with the wording as is, which was why I was

[52:35] sort of leaning on the referral request from the deputy

[52:38] city clerk is that I'm trying to determine. I don't

[52:43] want to say whether it's in order or not, but

[52:45] it is. Missing the part. That would require an amendment

[52:48] to the procedure bylaw. For this to be accommodated so.

[52:56] I'm not trying to weigh in on. Whether it might

[53:00] be a thing worth investigating. And have merit to it.

[53:04] It may have merit to take another look now that

[53:06] it's been a couple of years since these were put

[53:07] in place. It's. Missing some pieces, I guess, is. What?

[53:16] I'm alluding to here. Yeah. Currently. It's contrary to the

[53:22] procedure bylaw. It would need language that says a recommendation.

[53:25] To amend the procedural bylaw. Would you accept? Notwithstanding the

[53:30] procedural bylaw, It confines it to the accessibility advisory committee.

[53:38] It's a little bit tricky because, really, it usually requires

[53:40] a two thirds vote from council. To waive something that's

[53:43] already in place, but. We've got two. Two weeks. Three

[53:52] weeks until council. When is the three? Is it three?

[53:56] So. I'll take notwithstanding. And perhaps. In that time, staff

[54:02] would be able to get some elaboration on. What would

[54:06] be necessary in order to do this? So that's an

[54:11] amendment to add, notwithstanding. Notwithstanding the procedural bylaw, I'll take

[54:18] it as a friendly. I prefer not to. It's a

[54:22] bad habit we've gotten into. So I don't want to

[54:25] promote that. So the amendment is notwithstanding the procedural bylaw.

[54:30] And that would be right at the front of. The

[54:34] moment. I'll turn to speakers on the amendment once that's

[54:38] up in front of us. I mean, if it's a

[54:46] point of order, someone can jump in and. Mr. Chair,

[54:54] I do have a point of order, and the issue

[54:56] being is 31 two, which is. Electronic participation meetings, subsection

[55:03] b. It says a member must advise a clerk no

[55:07] later than. The business day before the meeting. Of the

[55:11] intent of the participation of electronic in order to assure

[55:15] proper technology is enabled to make sure participation is possible.

[55:19] Then when you go to the definitions under member says

[55:23] member means according to the circumstances. A member of council,

[55:26] including mayor. A member of committee, including the chair. I

[55:31] don't. Know. Is that? A formal committee. Is that an

[55:36] advisory committee? I'm just looking at it here and. I

[55:43] just like that there might be a little bit of

[55:45] wiggle room, given that it's. Not exposed. I don't know.

[55:48] The issue being is I don't have a problem with

[55:51] the accessibility aspects of them having it like to be

[55:54] able to do it. They're an advisory group, and I'd

[55:57] like to see that. I'm struggling with that anyways. Well,

[56:01] Ms. Lane has reminded me that it is a committee

[56:03] of council now. They have their own procedural. Yes, but

[56:07] with. So. As Ms. Lane has noted, if there

[56:17] isn't something that specifies. A particular procedure within. Their policy

[56:24] and procedure. Then it falls back to whatever the procedure

[56:26] of council. I appreciate it. The clerk's department will have

[56:36] a couple of weeks just to figure out what would

[56:38] be. Sort of a reasonable approach to it. I would

[56:46] presume that it would either need to be an amendment

[56:49] to the procedural bylaw. Or an amendment to add something.

[56:54] Into their policy and procedure guidebook. Because then something would

[56:58] exist and wouldn't require. Anyway, so. We have the amendment

[57:05] in front of us, notwithstanding procedure bylaw.

[57:19] Okay. So now I'm being told. Notwithstanding, is not allowed.

[57:26] Yeah, I was going to say that, Mr. Chair. So

[57:27] I have something for. You. I think in the spirit

[57:30] of what you just indicated, because I was just going

[57:32] to say that. We were unable to use notwithstanding earlier.

[57:37] On another issue. And I would attest that the notwithstanding

[57:43] could have been used here without any sort of confusion.

[57:48] But. Notwithstanding the fact that we can't use it. I

[57:53] think we could just indicate that the procedural bylaw be

[57:57] amended accordingly. And that leaves clerks. With ample room to

[58:00] be able to navigate that. And should they need to

[58:03] add things accordingly, allows them to do so and bring

[58:06] it back to council with the appropriate ordering. I'd be

[58:09] fine with that, if that's the wording. That we want

[58:11] to look at. And in that time, if clerks looks

[58:13] at it and says, actually, this would be better in

[58:16] the advisory committee, policy and procedure, or whatever the name

[58:19] is of that document. They can certainly advise on that.

[58:22] But. I would be fine with that. So I'm going

[58:25] to agree that we can't. Do the notwithstanding. So we

[58:29] just need wording on an amendment for it. Members. I

[58:34] think what it would have to read is that, in

[58:35] keeping with the city's commitment, to an accessible place. Employment.

[58:42] Members. So right after members that it would say that

[58:47] the procedural bylaw. Amended. Such that.

[59:02] Such that. Oh, sorry, I should have said before.

[59:33] Thank you. Okay, so that's the amendment there that the

[59:41] procedural bylaw be amended such that. Thank you for the

[59:47] input on this. Sorry, just second. So, Councilor Mary Petri,

[59:50] that's. Your amendment? Any other comment to add. So, Councilor

[59:53] McConkey, I'll turn it to you. And then, councilor Mark

[59:56] I just wanted to say thank you to my colleagues

[59:59] here on the committee for getting. This basically something that

[1:00:03] I can announce at the next OAAC meeting that at

[1:00:07] least the. Corporate and finance committee have come up with

[1:00:12] this, and I'll read them the motion and it'll be

[1:00:14] going to council this month. Thank you. Sure. Yeah. I

[1:00:18] mean, we still needed to go through the process and

[1:00:19] determine what's doable and all that sort of stuff. So

[1:00:22] please let them know staff are looking at it rather

[1:00:26] than. It's a done deal. Councilor marks. Yeah. I'm just

[1:00:29] glad the city clerk's not in attendance, but online probably,

[1:00:32] so. Fears, face or glares. But a procedural bylaw amendment

[1:00:38] is a very important and serious debate. Given the sensitive

[1:00:42] nature of the accessibility Advisory committee, this is something that

[1:00:46] I think I'm happy to support a recommendation from this

[1:00:49] committee to move forward to council, but in the future,

[1:00:52] if we're going to have any procedural bylaw review, remember?

[1:00:55] You remember, Mr. Chairman, we had lengthy conversations about. It.

[1:01:00] It is a discussion of council as a whole. Otherwise,

[1:01:04] you'll see procedural bylaw amendments come from every committee on

[1:01:08] a weekly or. Sorry. On a monthly basis, which is

[1:01:10] a very dangerous game to play. So this is. Our

[1:01:14] governing bylaw. It governs our meetings. It's very important. So

[1:01:18] to have any further discussion about any amendments will require.

[1:01:23] A full meeting of council to discuss that. So happy

[1:01:26] to support this, given the sensitive nature of the accessibility

[1:01:29] advisory committee. But as far as I'm concerned, this is

[1:01:32] as far as I'm willing, and I hope this committee

[1:01:34] is willing to go to amend this bylaw. Thank you.

[1:01:38] Point well taken. Thank you. On the amendment, are there

[1:01:40] any opposed to that amendment that's highlighted. I don't see

[1:01:44] any. So now it is the motion, as amended, in

[1:01:47] front of. Us. Were there any other speakers on the

[1:01:51] motion? As amended. Record a vote from vice chair marks.

[1:02:08] Councilor marks? Yes, Councilor Mayor Petrie? Councilor McConkey. Yes. Councilor

[1:02:14] Neil. Yes. Mayor Carter? Yes. Councilor Geverson? Yes. Six? Affirmative.

[1:02:19] Thank you. That carries. So we will. Now, just give

[1:02:22] us a moment. We're going to move on to the

[1:02:24] next item. As councilor McConkey has sent in. I believe

[1:02:28] this is item two of three.

[1:02:42] Okay, Councilor McConkey, this is your motion. Did you want

[1:02:45] to read that? Yes. Thank you. The region of Durham's

[1:02:48] vision Zero program included an agreement that the region and

[1:02:51] its lower tier municipalities would share in the camera revenues

[1:02:54] on a 60 40 basis. Yet. Since the implementation of

[1:03:04] that program, the city of OSHA has and I have

[1:03:07] to get a t at the end of that, it.

[1:03:10] Has not. My error has not received any revenue. Therefore,

[1:03:15] Ashwa city staff request a detailed accounting from the region

[1:03:19] of Durham with an explanation why and when revenue will

[1:03:23] be shared with the city of Osha. So give me

[1:03:30] a moment with this one because I'm going to turn

[1:03:33] to the commissioner. And just get some clarification on both

[1:03:40] this revenue. And do we get information from the region

[1:03:45] of Durham on it? Thank you, chair Guy Burston. It's

[1:03:50] my understanding that the 60 40 split is based on

[1:03:53] provincial offenses act revenue and the region gets 60%. The

[1:03:58] other 40% is then shared. With the area municipalities on

[1:04:03] their share of weighted assessment. In terms of the revenue.

[1:04:07] It's my understanding from discussions with regional staff that the

[1:04:13] costs actually exceed the revenue. And therefore, if we were.

[1:04:18] Sharing the costs, they would actually be sending us an

[1:04:21] invoice. So. Yeah, councilor. I'm not really sure. What we

[1:04:29] would given that information. I'm not sure that this motion

[1:04:32] really would have any effect. Well, I'm sorry, but I

[1:04:35] would like to see an actual accounting. Because you read.

[1:04:38] In the paper. Other municipalities in Mississauga, Edmonton. The public

[1:04:43] is calling it a cash grab. Well, if it's a

[1:04:45] cash grab, we haven't seen the cash, but I don't

[1:04:48] think that's. Fair. To say if 60% is going to

[1:04:52] the region. Has the region not received a dollar of

[1:04:57] revenue? And how is it that they would receive but

[1:05:00] the lower tiers don't? A 60 40 should be prorated.

[1:05:05] So it's not all going to the region, and then

[1:05:07] what's left over is. Going to the lower tier municipal.

[1:05:11] It just doesn't make sense to me, and I believe

[1:05:13] that it's time that we have. I mean, this was

[1:05:14] implemented, what, three years ago? I'm searching from the regional

[1:05:20] counselors. Was it 2021 that I think this came into?

[1:05:23] Play, like, surely to goodness there's revenue coming in now.

[1:05:27] I mean, I know a lot. Of people that have

[1:05:28] received the tickets. The city of Ash was looking at

[1:05:32] investigating like Pickering and Ajax has, doing it on their

[1:05:35] local roads. I think we need to know a little

[1:05:37] bit better how this operates. So I would hope to

[1:05:43] see. This motion pass so we can get a clear

[1:05:47] picture. Thank you. Councilor. Neil, you had your hand up.

[1:05:52] Yeah, I have no problem. What this suggests. But I

[1:05:56] would hope. That. Our city manager, Tracy Adams, would, and

[1:06:01] I've talked to her about this before. Whether they discussed

[1:06:06] this or not. When all caos. Get together and have

[1:06:10] their meetings with the region. I don't know when the

[1:06:12] next one is. But perhaps Tracy would be able to

[1:06:16] tell us if this has been brought up, because I

[1:06:18] know, she advised me that last time I asked that

[1:06:21] they were bringing it up. So what's? The latest update.

[1:06:25] From those meetings with the region where they iron. They

[1:06:28] sit down and they iron certain things out. And. It

[1:06:32] comes back to us. That's what I'd like to throw

[1:06:36] out. There is, has this been discussed? Because I've asked

[1:06:39] that it be brought up at those meetings. Thank you.

[1:06:43] If city council chooses to ask the region for information

[1:06:46] on this, it certainly is not out of order. If

[1:06:49] the committee wants. To send the recorded vote, please. Sorry.

[1:06:57] Yeah. I'll turn to visiting councilor Lee. Thank you very

[1:07:02] much, Mr. Chairman. I don't like trying to simplify this.

[1:07:07] It seemed pretty simple to me. That how much revenue

[1:07:11] is coming in based on the number of tickets they

[1:07:13] give and what's? The cost of administration. It's just simple

[1:07:17] math to me. I can't see where the difficulty would

[1:07:22] be. Just asked the question, how much revenue comes out

[1:07:26] of the 407? And that seems to be like, asking

[1:07:30] somebody to split the atom around here, so thank you.

[1:07:36] I don't know. Maybe they're still paying off the machines.

[1:07:38] Still? I don't know enough about this to know. But.

[1:07:44] If Merrickard did you. So, not to complicate things, but

[1:07:47] it is a lot. More complicated than the simplicity that

[1:07:50] we're looking at it. There was capital investments. There is

[1:07:56] challenges in regards to the tickets coming through. There is

[1:07:58] a process that, that's undertaking. I don't have all the

[1:08:02] information. And again as it comes back down. Therefore, ASHra

[1:08:06] staff request detailed accounting. I just want to remind all

[1:08:10] members of council. When we go through the year end

[1:08:15] with our staff in regards to their business plans. We

[1:08:19] support those business plans. Every meeting that we bring new

[1:08:24] items to the floor means something has to come off

[1:08:26] their work. Plan. And then we get disappointed because the

[1:08:30] reason that we keep on adding things. And certain things

[1:08:33] don't get done. And then through my discussions with department

[1:08:37] heads, as I'm asking for accountability and making sure that

[1:08:41] they accomplish the task and that our work plans are

[1:08:44] actually accomplished within that annual twelve month period. I just

[1:08:48] want us to take into consideration. The amount of work

[1:08:51] that. Is already scheduled in these departments. And every time

[1:08:57] we bring these forward, that means if this ends, up

[1:09:00] being a priority of this council, then that means something

[1:09:03] has to come off their work plan. And there's a

[1:09:05] limited amount of resources that everybody has, so I'm just

[1:09:08] asking. Everybody please take that into consideration as. We continue?

[1:09:14] The pylon in regards to our departments. I think this

[1:09:18] council is being very supportive in regards to making sure

[1:09:21] that we get the extra resources so that we can

[1:09:23] actually achieve great customer service, which we are in the

[1:09:26] process of undertaking. But every time we add something. This

[1:09:31] adds another. Job. That now becomes a priority. So something

[1:09:36] else has to come off the priority list. So I

[1:09:40] just know little about this, but I know there's a

[1:09:42] lot more complexities. To it than the simplicity of what

[1:09:45] it seems. Other speakers. Yeah. Councilor McConky, second round. Thank

[1:09:51] you. Don't need to burden. Anyone. But I do believe

[1:09:53] in getting answers. At this point, when we see in

[1:09:59] the paper, like I said, a lot of municipalities, how

[1:10:02] much they're making and the number of cameras they're putting

[1:10:05] out keeps increasing. But. The region of Durham this year

[1:10:10] did not add any new cameras. We have, as everyone

[1:10:14] knows, on council, we get all the calls. About the

[1:10:20] speeding problems on city of Ashwa roads and regional roads

[1:10:26] in the city of osha I'd like to keep this

[1:10:28] just to find a request for financial accounting. Right, but.

[1:10:31] The fact is, the region has not approved any new

[1:10:34] cameras in 2024. And the number of cameras that they

[1:10:38] have. I'm surprised there's not that many. They have eight

[1:10:43] fixed and. Eight, rotating at six right now. Really? We

[1:10:49] got to keep this to a request for financial there.

[1:10:51] You go. I'm just sharing some information there. Thank you.

[1:10:54] Okay. Thank you. And you had requested a recorded. Yes.

[1:10:59] Okay. Thank you. Just looking one last time. Okay. Record

[1:11:03] a vote called by councilor. Okay, councilor McConkey. Yes, Councilor

[1:11:08] Mayor Petri? Yes. Councilor Marks? Yes. Councilor Neil? Yes. Mayor

[1:11:14] Carter? No. Councilor Geverson? Yes. Five. Affirmative. Okay, that carries.

[1:11:21] So, there's one last item, and councilor McConkey. I have

[1:11:24] to rule the item out of order for two reasons.

[1:11:26] One, the item. Exists fundamentally on the afternoon agenda at

[1:11:31] economic and development services. The other reason being that given

[1:11:36] that that type of program has been determined to be

[1:11:40] in the purview of the business and economic Development Branch,

[1:11:43] which reports to that committee. For the time being. I'm

[1:11:50] treating it as being something that wouldn't come to this

[1:11:52] committee. Okay, so. I could take it this afternoon to

[1:11:55] economics. What I would suggest you do if there are

[1:11:59] tweaks. Or some slight differences or additions to what is

[1:12:04] in that report. That you had in mind. Take a

[1:12:07] look at what's in that report, and then as a

[1:12:10] visiting council. No, I. Have looked at it, and I

[1:12:12] see quite a difference. In fact, we had someone from

[1:12:14] the downtown email about graffiti, and I said, look at

[1:12:18] what the city of Toronto, there's nothing on the floor

[1:12:20] right now, and I've ruled it out of order. What

[1:12:22] I would suggest you do come this afternoon as a

[1:12:24] visiting councilor. Provide your feedback. Maybe there will be. Amendments

[1:12:28] that could be brought. To that? Because if I could

[1:12:31] clarify, what we're talking about this afternoon is $100,000. From

[1:12:34] the city. Give me a moment, because I've already declared

[1:12:37] a set of. Order. Give me 1 second to look

[1:12:39] one last time. This is not from the city of

[1:12:41] Osha. We're asking the province of. Wait while I look

[1:12:44] at that. Thank you.

[1:12:56] Yeah. So my suggestion would be either at committee this

[1:12:59] afternoon, Suggest that. As an addition to that package. Or

[1:13:07] bring it as an amendment to council. Thank you. Okay.

[1:13:09] Thank you. Are there any other items? To be introduced

[1:13:11] by members of council or committee. Sorry, Councilor Neil. Motion.

[1:13:16] No, Jarrett. Well, that's not an item to be introduced,

[1:13:19] but it's in order, so we'll take it. Are there

[1:13:22] any opposed to adjournment? We are adjourned. Thank you.

Corporate and Finance Services Committee Meeting

Agenda

Transcript