[0:03] All right. Make a motion to open the Owensville Town Council

[0:08] budget hearing for the 2020 2022 27 budget on September

[0:15] 1st, 2026 at 6 p.m. >> Second.

[0:19] » All in favor? All right. Bye.

[0:43] Okay. >> I thought you were getting ready to ask

[0:44] a question. >> No, I was waiting for you to say

[0:46] something. >> Oh, no, no, we're just Okay.

[0:48] » So, I mean, this is basically here for the public to

[0:52] » ask questions and you guys got any questions or

[0:55] » if we have any questions on it?

[1:01] I did have questions. I got to get there though.

[1:05] » Yeah, I have to find it. >> I know what your questions are. I got

[1:09] your email late today. >> Reading my mind.

[1:22] Okay. So, your first I will go over this. We're in

[1:28] a new program in gateway this year. >> We used to be in budget 1.0 and now it's

[1:34] budget 2.0. So, our forms are a little different than what we're normally used

[1:39] to. Okay. So, this here, this budget form one. Okay.

[1:46] If you look in the advertise column,

[1:52] these are the numbers that I come up with. And how I come up with them is I

[1:59] usually go back three or four years to that. It prints out a report and I look

[2:05] and see how much was spent out of there out of that line item and then I

[2:12] it's kind of a guessing game. Does it give you an average or

[2:16] » no? >> No.

[2:18] » So advertise. Now it did well and I don't know why like I said it's a new

[2:24] program. It did throw it ahead over to the adopted but that is not adopted yet

[2:29] them numbers. Okay. So it goes so all of all these columns down through here on

[2:38] advertise that is numbers that I come up with and these are all the

[2:44] appropriations line items that we can spend out of.

[2:50] Okay. >> That's what that is.

[3:02] I say it might be underneath there.

[3:09] » Specifically, >> maybe not. I figure out what they

[3:12] » No, this is stuff for the next meeting. >> No, next meeting.

[3:16] » The these were not in your packets for your meeting. I I I dropped this set off

[3:22] like a few days before. >> That's right. They're different from

[3:24] that. I gave you [clears throat] I had

[3:28] delivered yours.

[3:32] [snorts] >> Okay. So then your budget form two

[3:36] » this is nonpropy tax revenues

[3:42] » that

[3:46] July 1st December 31st 2026 this is how much we should approximately

[3:54] get for these. Okay. And then you have to January 1st to December 31st, 2027,

[4:05] you have to estimate how much you're going to get for the whole year on each

[4:12] one of these revenue line items. >> So that's more or less the business

[4:18] side. >> Yeah.

[4:21] » What we intake and Yes. >> what we're expecting.

[4:24] » Yes. Now some of them it is like um

[4:30] like each we have like our bank accounts we have general water sewer and park and

[4:36] wreck. Okay. >> We get once a month the bank will send

[4:40] me or I get online and look at it and it will tell me how much interest I earned

[4:47] on each one of them accounts. So that's what that is. So that I don't get that

[4:53] number. Some of these numbers I have to figure out myself, but most of

[4:59] these came comes in from the state. Okay, so that's what that is.

[5:08] And then this here, this is a new this is a new one this year for me too. Um,

[5:16] this is the cash flow statement and this is what when I had my budget

[5:23] meeting with Robert, he plugs the numbers in for this. So,

[5:29] the computer autom the it automatically figures everything up.

[5:36] » Is that a monthly cash flow or just for the whole year?

[5:40] » Okay. So like um here on this page, this is the 2027 projected cash flow. This

[5:48] one, this chart, this one here is for all year. Um

[5:57] and then it has like 20 2025 historical cash flow and it told how much reserves

[6:05] in the general NBH par CCD how much money we had to use.

[6:12] So like I said that part there is a new form and I we will all have get used to

[6:20] that one. That's all I can tell about you on that one.

[6:25] And then this last one is the current year financial worksheet.

[6:30] And uh so like it goes through these are all the

[6:36] like the casino river boat. We get that once a year

[6:41] and that's usually in the fall. Fall to early winter is when we get it. Um,

[6:49] I had to enter what we got from January to June of 2026,

[6:56] uh, the dispersements and then put in the second column, June

[7:02] 30th, the cash balance on it. And then the last column is the 2026 budget.

[7:10] That's what we had budgeted for these these um entries are ones that we get

[7:19] revenue from the state local road street uh public safety local income tax as of

[7:27] right now. Um like January

[7:33] through June 30th the cash balance on the lit tax is 48,000.

[7:42] We get about um

[7:47] 12,000 and something a month on that. So that that's a good one for us right now.

[7:56] And that's one where we can like water hydrants,

[8:00] we can or fire hydrants, we can buy that with that because that's for public.

[8:07] um police stuff.

[8:11] We can do that. So that's what that form is.

[8:28] » And you you now know how to ask for that money if if we need to.

[8:34] » Yeah. because when we first got it, nobody really kind of knew how it was

[8:38] going to go. But >> well, we got it this this past year, I

[8:42] had to ask for some and so this neck and they didn't buck me on it or anything

[8:50] because it is not one of their funds. I I don't know how to say it. It's not one

[8:56] of their funds that they control. So,

[9:02] I mean, we automatically got it. As long as it's for the right purpose. As long

[9:06] as it gets critical. >> As long as it's for the right purpose.

[9:09] Yes.

[9:39] This is just something to bring up. I don't want to be the one to do it, but

[9:44] I'm on to it. the uh financial

[9:51] management report >> for both the water [snorts] utility and

[9:56] the sewer works >> um both have some some of the same

[10:02] concerns. I don't know if you've read through those on the summary page. Yes,

[10:08] » it talks about um

[10:12] our cash flow uh compared to our rates

[10:18] and different things. But under the uh on the third section, estimated future

[10:23] health, it [snorts] says total estimated fund balances balances are expected to

[10:28] remain above the required reserves through 2028. It says however the gap

[10:35] between the estimated fund balances and the required reserves will become

[10:38] tighter demonstrating a dwindling cash reserve cash level as the costs continue

[10:45] to rise with no offsetting increases in the receipts. So it's referring to our

[10:50] rate adjustment in the next section which is talking about based on these

[10:54] things we may need to consider whether our rates are adequate.

[11:00] Um, but I'm not saying we need to do anything.

[11:04] » Yeah. >> Just saying we probably ought to have a

[11:05] conversation about it because it's talking about capital improvements.

[11:09] We've already talked about the wastewater treatment plant um and what

[11:14] we need to do there and potentially in the future because we're trying to leave

[11:19] room for development. And then um I don't know if we have anything on the

[11:26] water other than the wells. have I mean we

[11:30] know we need to upgrade the wells >> or at least increase the number or the

[11:37] another location or something. So we're going to have to come up with something

[11:40] there anyway. >> Um

[11:47] but anyway, I mean that's just just at least bringing it out.

[11:52] [snorts] I don't we don't necessarily have to discuss that tonight, but we

[11:57] probably ought to consider that soon >> or over the next year or whatever.

[12:07] » So, cutting things in certain places, what you're saying is what?

[12:12] » No, I mean, yeah. >> I guess whatever whether we find ways to

[12:16] cut or whether we >> whether we need to increase the rates. I

[12:20] mean, >> we did we did just have the credit drop

[12:24] off. Is that >> Weren't we getting some sort of credit?

[12:27] So, our bill went up. >> So, our bill just went up,

[12:30] » didn't it? Like last year or something like that? Thought there was some sort

[12:33] of water credit they were getting or sewer credit. I don't remember. But

[12:37] » no, >> maybe my kids just use more water.

[12:40] » We've not had [laughter] we've not had a increase in

[12:45] » No, not not an increase in the rate. There was something that we were that

[12:48] was offsetting some of that cost. >> Well, we did sprinkler credit that

[12:54] » I don't think that was it, but I know what you're talking about.

[12:59] » A credit for the customers pass on.

[13:05] » But anyway, [snorts]

[13:08] that's something to consider in the next year.

[13:14] probably sooner than that, but I'm not going to push it.

[13:29] » It's not necessarily that we need to >> I mean it it was brought [clears throat]

[13:32] it was brought up whenever we were looking at the uh

[13:39] sewer treatment plant anyhow that a rate increase would

[13:44] would be needed in order to

[13:50] get to the capacity that we um felt comfortable with and still have room to

[13:56] grow.

[14:00] The problem that we currently have is we have no more room to grow.

[14:08] Getting

[14:30] the pipes lined that helped a little bit.

[14:36] Slow things down. There's a little more time.

[14:49] [snorts]

[15:07] » [cough and clears throat]

[15:10] » This one.

[15:23] » Ready?

[28:09] Yes. All right.

[28:18] » All right. Good evening. Um, I'll make a motion to open the

[28:23] Owensville Town Council meeting [clears throat] on September the 1st,

[28:27] 2026. at 6:30 p.m. >> Second.

[28:31] » All those in favor. >> You all would please stand and face the

[28:35] flag for the [clears throat] pledge allegiance

[28:41] back today.

[28:45] » I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

[28:50] republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[28:57] justice for all. [snorts]

[29:00] » Thank you.

[29:05] » Um, a reminder, this meeting is being recorded. Anyone who speaks is giving

[29:10] permission to be recorded and posted to our YouTube channel and the town

[29:14] website. Virtual participation is not monitored.

[29:19] So you can virtually watch the meeting but if you need or want to speak it must

[29:24] be done so in person. All right.

[29:30] [snorts]

[29:36] Are the claims for the town?

[29:40] Anybody have any questions on those? >> Everything good? I'll give it.

[29:45] » Okay. All right. Make a motion to approve the claims from the town

[29:51] or for the town from August the 12th, 2026 through September the 1st, 2026 in

[29:59] the amount of $178,954.

[30:04] » Second. >> All those in favor?

[30:06] » I.

[30:10] » All right. meeting minutes from August the 11th,

[30:14] 2026, the one for a town council meeting.

[30:18] Any questions or concerns on that one? >> No, I'm good.

[30:22] » All good. All right. Make a motion to approve the Owensville Town Council

[30:27] meeting minutes from August 11th, 2026. >> Second.

[30:32] » All in favor?

[30:40] um the park and recreation board meeting

[30:46] minutes from Tuesday, July the 28th, 2026. Was there any questions or

[30:51] concerns on that one?

[30:54] » No. >> Nope.

[30:55] » Okay. I'll make a motion to approve the park and recreation board meeting

[30:59] minutes from Tuesday, July the 28th, 2026. Second.

[31:03] » All in favor? >> I

[31:05] » I

[31:10] the claims from the parking rack.

[31:15] Anybody have any questions or concerns on that one?

[31:20] » No. >> Okay. I will make a motion to approve

[31:26] the park and wreck claims from July 1st, 2026 through July 28th, 2026 in the

[31:33] amount of $6,700

[31:37] 96. >> Second.

[31:40] » All in favor? All right.

[31:45] » Um,

[31:51] » water adjustments. I don't see it.

[31:58] » Water adjustment for Jerry right at

[32:08] » [snorts]

[32:15] » Um before we do that,

[32:18] » yeah, >> we just approved July's

[32:22] which we approved last month this in front of me

[32:30] » for the park record. If you look at the minutes, we approved the I don't I think

[32:36] we just didn't change this.

[32:42] » This is this is the public >> and this

[32:45] » on the uh meeting minutes from August it says reviewed the June meeting.

[32:51] » So we need to we need to approve the policy

[32:53] » 728. [snorts]

[32:59] » 728 to August 25th. >> Yes. Good catch.

[33:11] » I make a motion to approve the park and Rex claims from July 28th

[33:18] to August 25th, 2026 in the amount of $16,230.88.

[33:26] » Second. >> All in favor? Hi.

[33:29] » Hi.

[33:33] » Okay.

[33:43] [snorts]

[34:04] All right. Um,

[34:15] so they they moved the meter. So this is the one, Rick, was this the

[34:21] one where you guys were working on over

[34:25] over here on >> Yes.

[34:28] » Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah, we moved it.

[34:30] » Okay. >> I got to replace the line his line is

[34:36] still leaks, but it's not on him now. So, I put it on his property. So, I'll

[34:43] probably get that done next week.

[34:47] » All right. Um, I will make a motion to approve the award adjustment in the

[34:52] amount of $438.36, bringing the new bill to $94.35.

[35:00] » Second. >> All in favor? Uh,

[35:14] there were water deposits paid out this last month um in the amount of $600.

[35:30] » [snorts]

[35:32] » Okay. Um, so [snorts]

[35:37] repairs

[35:40] to the RH center from uh an incident in July.

[35:50] Have you had have you had any contact or is that all Roger

[35:54] with >> the fireworks?

[35:59] » Okay. Um

[36:05] well, we have a

[36:10] or [snorts] >> estimate from Denny Brothers

[36:15] Construction of $2,600 to get that repaired.

[36:25] » [snorts]

[36:28] » and we'll get a get a letter out to him.

[36:33] » Go ahead and get it going. >> Yeah, you guys.

[36:35] » Yeah, I think I think I mean >> we got to prepare it.

[36:38] » It's got to it's got to be fixed. And >> are we having them pay for anything or

[36:42] » Well, so so he had he had agreed to pay for it.

[36:48] Um because I mean it was it was his fault. He was

[36:57] » I don't know how that works. That's up to them as far as what it ends up

[37:00] costing. >> Right.

[37:01] » His estimate.

[37:12] Make a motion to approve um repairs [snorts] to the RH center through

[37:17] Denning Brothers Construction in the amount of $2,600.

[37:21] » A second. >> Those in favor?

[37:22] » I >> I and then we'll get a copy to him and

[37:27] then hopefully

[37:31] he'll make contact back and work out a way to

[37:35] pay that back.

[37:38] get over you guys. So that's kind of plan on getting paid back.

[37:49] [clears throat]

[37:55] » So last week we had an issue with somebody tampering [snorts] with our

[37:58] meters. Um, and from what I'm being told, it was

[38:04] um more than just going out and turning one

[38:09] on that had been shut off um for non-payment,

[38:16] » right? >> Yes.

[38:19] The

[38:22] the pipes >> Mhm.

[38:24] » in the apartment complex had been switched

[38:31] They reversed the pipes two different meters so they could get

[38:36] water after it was shut off. And we did not know this

[38:43] until a renter was coming in to go to one of the

[38:49] apartments and Rick and then knows more about it than they can they can explain

[38:54] the gist of it. Yeah, it was it was not good.

[39:00] » You guys just a general explanation of >> we had we went over put locks on.

[39:07] » Mhm. >> Put two locks on two meters. Came back

[39:11] the next day. The locks, one lock was already off.

[39:15] When you turn the water on, it didn't go to the apartment that it's supposed to.

[39:22] That's not on our end. that's passed that meter

[39:26] been done.

[39:29] My thought on it is just put one meter up front.

[39:38] I can get rid of all those meters. Put one up front

[39:42] [clears throat] >> the um

[39:44] [cough]

[39:50] » I believe >> we can't really

[39:52] » statement. She said she's the owner >> of the apartment.

[39:55] » So Teresa, do you have any idea what happened? Why why a me why a certain

[40:01] meter wasn't hooked to the correct apartment anymore?

[40:04] » My son did that and he was told not to. It's been fixed and he never did it

[40:11] again. But having one meter just would not work for me.

[40:17] I I've been off work for a while and uh I could see if several people weren't

[40:21] paying the water bill, it would just get shut off and the other ones that did pay

[40:26] it, well, they would just be >> Mhm.

[40:30] » I mean, that I mean, that's kind of the way that it was it was [clears throat]

[40:32] designed to work. I agree. Um but then your son

[40:38] um bypassed that and took over somebody else's meter for himself. Um,

[40:45] essentially. So, [clears throat]

[40:50] » and I am Am I going to be moving? >> Am I right? It's still not fixed.

[40:57] » I believe Karen told me that it's still not fixed.

[41:00] » It's still I think still. >> Yeah. The guys went out there and they

[41:05] said it's still

[41:10] over there to fix it.

[41:17] later today

[41:24] morning.

[41:28] That's the worst ever. But we've had other issues there. I

[41:32] mean, we've had we've opened it up in the winter time and someone tried to set

[41:37] up set a fire in it and melted one of the lids off one of the meters.

[41:46] If they want to keep four, that's fine. But we're going have to figure out a way

[41:51] for them not to be able to get in meters anymore and just putting a lid on it.

[41:55] But whatever we got isn't working. So it have to be something that's

[42:00] » Well, then so where' they switch the lines at?

[42:03] » In the basement. >> So that and we can't do nothing about

[42:06] that. >> Absolutely not.

[42:15] But Karen is not getting an accurate reading through the system

[42:22] because the water that was used when she didn't know that these pipes were

[42:26] switched. [clears throat]

[42:30] There's no way to determine because one of them was ended up and had

[42:35] after they switched one of them back, two of them was on and she said there's

[42:40] no way I can determine how [clears throat] much water somebody's

[42:43] using,

[42:50] » but the water usage is showing up on the one they're pulling from.

[42:56] » Yeah. >> So, they're having inflated bill.

[43:05] » Sounds like a civil problem. >> Sounds like a criminal problem.

[43:08] » It's a crime. >> That is theft. That's crime.

[43:12] » Absolutely.

[43:19] » I mean, the apartments on the corner of the third and war I think it's tower

[43:24] properties. They got one meter for how many apartments?

[43:30] » Oh, yeah. >> Williams Apartments has one meter for

[43:33] how many apartments? >> I mean, I'm I'm just

[43:36] » Well, that's going to be determined by how they do their agreements with their

[43:40] tenants. >> Yeah, that's not that's

[43:43] » Yeah, you >> I mean, but I'm imagining at some point,

[43:47] and maybe not. Maybe there wasn't anything in place, but if someone wanted

[43:51] to put in an apartment and have four meters, they're going to have four

[43:54] hookup charges. Is that not correct? It would be just one.

[44:00] » So there So they're paying for that service to have it. Now, if they're

[44:05] fusing it, that's a different story. I mean, there's a

[44:10] » Well, the fire that was in the meter, I guess they had frozen pipes, so I think

[44:14] they went out there to set a fire underneath the meter. And I think it

[44:18] really destroyed the meter too because I'm pretty sure it started reading

[44:22] erratically because the gears inside the meter.

[44:26] » How recent was that? >> Uh threeish

[44:31] years ago.

[44:35] » Did we do anything? >> We have an ordinance that's been Clyde

[44:40] signed that we can charge the cost of the repair.

[44:45] We need to we need to we need to make sure we follow up on these things.

[44:58] Right now we have that stuff in place, >> right?

[45:04] It's like get into it with the main street thing.

[45:11] » [clears throat]

[45:22] » Sander, do you see anything that with this highlighted that we need to

[45:26] increase? >> Well, the only

[45:28] » start doing fines. >> We should put fines in there. Um, we

[45:33] have the one from Fort Branch that I drafted for them. It's a uh should be

[45:37] fine not less than $100 or more than 2500. The state statutes allow to find

[45:42] up to 2500 for each separate offense. Um, and a separate offense shall be

[45:48] committed for each day of the violation. >> In addition to the

[45:53] » in addition to that. Okay. >> Yeah.

[45:57] » We can either amend this one to reference a new ordinance or we can

[46:02] shove all of this into an amended ordinance [snorts] on section I. However

[46:06] you guys want to do it. It won't be difficult to do.

[46:11] » [clears throat]

[46:16] » You need all this language. >> It just um it just

[46:21] » the beginning. >> It defines everything.

[46:24] » Says, >> "Yeah, Sandra wrote this before branch."

[46:27] » It just defines everything. So they can't say, "Well, I it was just the jump

[46:31] or it wasn't this or it was >> Yeah.

[46:34] » Yeah.

[46:37] Well, I would suggest we do a separate one that this references to separate one

[46:42] is what I would say. [clears throat] Then we're only changing

[46:50] based on what we can do.

[47:06] What if we had [clears throat]

[47:11] to give it permission to go in and inspect?

[47:17] » Well, we were talking about that on hookup.

[47:20] » I mean I mean for this very specific incident right now so that we're not

[47:24] saying that we're going to the single meter today normal. I mean

[47:30] » I mean she's here and talked to her about it. I mean, if

[47:34] you if they allow us to go in there, I would say that's fine to make sure

[47:38] they're happy with it. [snorts] I don't know what he's I don't know

[47:41] where they have to go. Do you have to go in the basement to look at this?

[47:49] » We stood outside. >> So, you were working with the half the

[47:55] problem. the extra

[48:01] » watch.

[48:11] I mean, I don't want to be heartless here, but

[48:18] I mean, unfortunately, it's this lady's problem, not necessarily ours,

[48:23] » right? But I mean, I think we're willing to

[48:27] help her figure this out. Don't think that's a problem because we don't want

[48:31] them turning it on and off. >> That's the whole point of this meter

[48:34] tampering. >> So, when there's a lock on it, you got

[48:38] to really wait to get off. >> Yeah.

[48:41] » Yeah. I really don't want to feel like coming in fixing the water when it's

[48:46] out. anytime. Does that matter?

[48:52] I mean, I can call >> sales guys and see if they have a

[48:57] different style pit. >> I can put a different pit on it,

[49:00] » more secure one. >> So, are the I'm just curious if you're

[49:05] willing, is are the basements connected? >> It's one basement. It's it's it's it's a

[49:11] house. It's basically four living spaces. Correct.

[49:16] » Oh. That makes sense now.

[49:20] » Yeah. >> I mean, you know where you know where

[49:21] it's at, right? >> I think I do now.

[49:23] » Yes. >> You used I don't know if it's still

[49:26] called this, but used to it was referred to as the Fifth Mansion.

[49:30] » Yeah. >> It's the way I've always been

[49:36] told. I mean, >> this was [snorts]

[49:38] » I mean, I don't I don't see a need to go beyond helping her figure out whether

[49:43] she's being stolen from,

[49:48] but as far as going in there and figuring it out, I don't think we need

[49:51] to do that. That's that's her decision as to whether to continue dealing with

[49:55] that crap. And and I would imagine that you would

[49:59] want to fix it as best you can, but for your tenants sake, but

[50:08] I think we should I think we should look into that.

[50:10] » You want to buy it? >> No, I'm good.

[50:16] [clears throat]

[50:22] » Isaac, do you have any thoughts on it? >> Well, [clears throat]

[50:28] I mean, if we went to a single meter at the only way you could do is just divide

[50:34] up the total bills. So that's not very convenient, but

[50:41] » water.

[50:46] » Yeah, that's true. >> So you shut the whole apartment off.

[50:50] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[50:51] » I mean, that's like you said, that's the downside. Everybody's going to be

[50:54] punished for one person's [clears throat]

[50:57] » problem. But that at that point, >> I mean, I I would think you would if you

[51:02] had if you had one meter going to the apartment, you would either

[51:05] have your own meters that metered each individual

[51:10] each individual's >> space or you would just take

[51:21] in your case being being the the rent you would probably

[51:27] take the highest bill that you've ever received

[51:32] and just made that your normal and then divide that and put it up on

[51:37] all four of your places and everybody just pays that much. Does that make

[51:42] sense? I don't know. >> I don't know if I'm making

[51:43] » these are just suggestions. We're not giving you financial advice.

[51:46] » Correct. We're [laughter] just >> But ourselves,

[51:51] » I I think I think

[51:56] I think we can work together on it. Um,

[52:06] if she was asking to put in, if she already had one and she was asking to

[52:10] put in three more and we were having these kind of issues, I would say

[52:13] absolutely no, we're not doing it. If she's already got the four,

[52:18] um, the problem is is she's having issues where it's getting switched on

[52:23] her end. Um and then that turns into a criminal

[52:28] issue. >> Yeah.

[52:30] » You can't even mess with it's a crime to mess with any public utility also. So

[52:34] you can't mess with any public utilities. It's a crime. So,

[52:41] at that point, whenever uh Carrie gets an alert that there's an

[52:48] issue with the water, let's send the guys out there and if

[52:53] it's been tampered with,

[52:57] Roger or Stephen get called in to handle it on the criminal side of it. So,

[53:07] Do what? >> Well, I guess you had to, but whatever.

[53:14] » So, this raises a different question, I think. What do we do when somebody has

[53:18] tampered with it? What's our pro what's our procedure?

[53:22] Says somebody say somebody decides to light a fire in a meter.

[53:28] What do we do at that point? We shut it off

[53:33] or it's already shut off. What do we do with the deposit? What do we do? They

[53:37] have to pay another deposit. Does the deposit cover that repair? What are we

[53:41] doing? >> Nothing was done, but I

[53:45] » Well, what happens? What should we do?

[53:52] » Oh, I think we need to pay for it. >> I thought the fine

[53:59] » the fine and the ordinances would or the the fine on the ordinance would cover

[54:03] it.

[54:13] Or just hit him twice so they don't do it again.

[54:40] I mean because article three in this in the ordinance from Fort Branch um

[54:50] that just that's like a coverall, right? So any any kind of tampering

[54:55] » any kind of tampering >> any kind of anything that goes against

[54:57] the definitions above >> Yes.

[55:01] » could be fined not less than $100 >> Yes.

[55:04] » or more than $2,500. >> Yes. And Fort Branch decided to make

[55:08] turning the water off a $100 fine and removing a lock $2,400. So those are two

[55:14] separate in addition to everything else in article three. Yes.

[55:20] » So if somebody lit a fire

[55:24] and it cost $1,300 to fix. We could say the fine is $1,300 or

[55:31] $1,400. Make sure it gets covered. >> Right.

[55:37] » Okay. >> But we got to take action when it

[55:41] happens, >> right?

[55:43] » I guess something like that. >> They have to be reported.

[55:47] » Oh, they usually are. I mean we we'll tell we go to the office and say

[55:50] something you know but it's kind of common knowledge and it's

[55:53] » well then we'll just make sure that >> or you know for you this for a fact I've

[55:57] been saying stuff for a long time about people you know

[56:01] meters so >> right but usually when you call me it's

[56:05] because somebody >> some sort of

[56:07] » shut their water off so that they could fix a pipe and then turn it back on

[56:11] themselves. Usually that's what I've heard.

[56:19] Maybe water was running down the street. I turned on road.

[56:26] » Across from your house. You got water leak over here.

[56:34] » Well, that's also because he broke the water line to his washing machine and

[56:39] water was spewing out into his hardwood floor. with me anecdote a little bit

[56:43] anyway. Okay. [snorts]

[56:48] » Can you draft something? >> I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah, I can absolutely

[56:52] do that. >> Both the amendment

[56:54] » to the original one and the new one. >> Yep.

[56:57] » I'll have it at the next meeting. >> Thank you.

[56:59] » Welcome. >> Okay.

[57:08] Rick, do you have anything else? >> Or do you, sir?

[57:12] » No, no, I'm good.

[57:25] [clears throat and cough]

[57:27] » Billy, >> what

[57:28] » you have? Anything else? >> Technically, I was on vacation. No.

[57:32] » Okay. Well, we appreciate you coming in on your night off.

[57:38] Stephen, you have anything from the police department?

[57:41] » They've got the working on it. Putting all pieces together.

[57:47] » This is the new one. >> The new one. Yes.

[57:48] » Okay. >> Hopefully here

[57:52] it >> did have some issues with the uh the

[57:57] current Durango. >> It's fixed now. Since they put the new

[58:00] injectors in it, it's gained 5 miles per gallon.

[58:03] » Nice. >> Guess they did have a recall.

[58:08] » Huh? >> They did have they had some kind of

[58:09] recall on them or or >> No, it's a known issue.

[58:12] » It's a known It was That's what it was. The issue was

[58:16] bad enough that the parts were on back order because everybody's ordered it.

[58:25] » All right.

[58:30] Okay, we got the uh um tall grass and weeds and junks

[58:39] list. Um, so if your grass is tall or your weeds are tall or

[58:46] you have junk in your yard, um,

[58:53] you could probably expect a letter within the next few days.

[58:58] » Today, >> communicate with us.

[59:02] » Yeah. >> If you if you get a letter,

[59:05] » just talk to us. Tell us what your plan is.

[59:07] » Yes. We do have an ordinance that has fines.

[59:13] We would rather not use them. So, come talk to us

[59:18] because communication, communication, communication.

[59:25] Okay.

[59:28] » [clears throat] >> Um,

[59:36] I think that's for another day.

[59:41] » Right. >> Yeah.

[59:44] All right. [clears throat] Okay. So, we're going to navigate this

[59:51] carefully. Patridden concerns. I'm going to ask everybody in the room if they

[59:56] have something to say. Not about fluoride. We're not there yet.

[1:00:01] We're going to get there. You're going to get an opportunity, but for the

[1:00:04] moment, I just would like to [clears throat]

[1:00:07] know if anybody has anything else to contribute to the meeting. Okay.

[1:00:14] Teresa Robin. >> Yes, sir. Thanks.

[1:00:21] » I'm not going to remember your name. I met you one time, Heather.

[1:00:24] » Yes. >> I just I did want to know if you could

[1:00:27] recommend a contractor that maybe I could have take a look so I can get some

[1:00:31] maybe prices if you guys are still interested in moving forward. I got some

[1:00:35] ideas. I don't want to do a whole lot of changing to the building itself just,

[1:00:39] you know, some sprucing up. But if you had somebody that you'd like to work

[1:00:43] with. >> So, um, after the meeting,

[1:00:46] » yeah, >> get with us and we'll give you some

[1:00:48] names of some local guys that >> Yeah. Yeah.

[1:00:52] that have worked with us and >> they're familiar with the town and

[1:00:56] everybody. Yeah. >> Yep. Very good. Anything else?

[1:01:00] » Yeah, Cody. >> Okay, Scott.

[1:01:09] » Hang on a minute.

[1:01:14] Josh, do you have anything at all?

[1:01:19] [clears throat]

[1:01:22] Pedro. Not fluoride. Not yet. Okay.

[1:01:29] Stephen, Vanessa. >> Yes.

[1:01:32] » Yes. >> I I want to know what you guys decision

[1:01:36] are about apartments. >> You never really

[1:01:40] » Oh. So I So I think now we're right now we're going we're going to let it be.

[1:01:46] » Okay. >> With the four meters.

[1:01:48] » Okay. And if we continue to have issues, then it becomes it will become a a

[1:01:55] criminal matter. And if we continue to continue to have issues, it will just go

[1:02:00] with our plan. >> Quick question on that. Yes.

[1:02:03] » Do you want me to go ahead and call these places to see if they have better

[1:02:07] meter boxes that are more secure than >> Yes.

[1:02:12] » Yes. get us um have us some ideas by the next meeting or just get us some ideas

[1:02:19] on pricing because if they're going to be

[1:02:23] I mean if it's going to be so expensive compared to normal if we're have to do

[1:02:28] extra things to keep that [snorts] property secure.

[1:02:33] Um you may get part of that bill. We'll

[1:02:37] see. >> I'm just saying it's a possibility.

[1:02:40] We're being we're usually pretty generous, but

[1:02:47] it's just it's just a pain. I I don't I don't understand

[1:02:53] why people can't just leave things that don't belong to them

[1:02:58] alone. I I just I I I mean, I want to be compassionate and nice about it, but at

[1:03:05] the end of the day, it's not yours. Don't touch it.

[1:03:08] » Right. So, and I understand that it wasn't you and and and but

[1:03:15] » but it's your property. >> Ain't something I do,

[1:03:19] » but it's your property. So, that does make you responsible.

[1:03:24] » Okay.

[1:03:28] » Corey, >> you have anything else? Is

[1:03:31] » Sandra? >> All right.

[1:03:36] [snorts] Hey, Drew. You have the floor, sir.

[1:03:41] » Did I skip you? >> I'm sorry. What do you got?

[1:03:48] » All right. >> I'm going to make myself comfortable.

[1:03:55] » All right, everyone. Look, uh, a couple of months ago, I was approached by

[1:03:59] several people, uh, who had a concern. We had a little

[1:04:03] bit of a conversation regarding fluoride, fluoride in the water, uh what

[1:04:08] it's doing to our health. So, I guess I was kind of chosen to uh come up with

[1:04:13] some research for you guys and present uh the research. First of all, I want to

[1:04:18] let you know that I'm not a doctor. I'm not a nurse. I'm not an expert in the

[1:04:23] matter either, and I'm not a lawyer. So, what I'm going to present to you guys is

[1:04:28] just about 15 hours of going down the rabbit hole, if you

[1:04:34] will, for finding information. And I basically went and looked at both sides,

[1:04:40] you know, try to outweigh the pros and the cons and see what I could find.

[1:04:45] Unfortunately, I found more bad things than I found

[1:04:49] good things. So, I'm going to try to convert a 45 minute um

[1:04:55] [clears throat and cough] PowerPoint presentation into a much much

[1:04:59] quicker condensed form here so that I so that you know I don't keep you here all

[1:05:04] night. Okay. But I did bring a lot of or some percentage of of the studies that I

[1:05:10] found just to back back it up. Okay. So with that [clears throat] in mind,

[1:05:18] I'll be passing some things along and if anybody has any questions, I'll just ask

[1:05:23] that you ask it at the end, okay? And I will try to answer the best that I can.

[1:05:28] So my topic is uh uh rethinking fluoride in our town's drinking water.

[1:05:35] » [clears throat] >> Uh we recent uh why recent federal

[1:05:38] science a federal court ruling and a wave of state action have put community

[1:05:42] water flidation up for reconsideration and what our and what our council should

[1:05:50] do in my opinion. Okay. So for the last 60 years, we've been

[1:05:56] assured that the addition of fluoride to our public water supplies is a safe and

[1:06:02] effective means of reducing dental decay. Sure, we've all heard that,

[1:06:07] right? But is it really safe and effective

[1:06:10] is the big question. In 2026, does the populationwide benefit of

[1:06:17] adding fluoride to drinking water outweigh the potential risks associated

[1:06:22] with uh total fluoride exposure, particularly for developing children and

[1:06:29] other potential uh susceptible populations

[1:06:33] or does the fluoride close health risks not only for us but for our pets?

[1:06:40] Okay. So [sighs] to begin, let's consider the following

[1:06:45] questions along with their often surprising answers. What is the actual

[1:06:49] fluoride chemical added to our water? Uh fluoride added to our municipal water.

[1:06:55] And you guys going to have to excuse me. These there there's words in here that

[1:06:58] you need a degree just to read them. Uh so fluoride added to municipal water you

[1:07:03] have hydro floral cyolysic acid you have uh sodium fluoro cy silicate and Billy

[1:07:12] if I'm wrong just correct me uh sodium fluoride which is something that we use

[1:07:17] here in the town in the case of something like hydrofllor floryic

[1:07:25] acid is the chemical put in the vast majority of US water supplies. Guys, it

[1:07:31] is not pharmaceutical grade. None of these are they're not none of them are

[1:07:35] pharmaceutical grade. It is removed from the pollution scrubbers of phosphate

[1:07:41] fertilizer plants and contains contaminants of lead, arsenic, and

[1:07:46] radium. This toxic industrial waste, which would

[1:07:50] be costly for the fertilizer industry to dispose of properly, is sold to water

[1:07:56] districts and is more toxic than lead. According

[1:08:02] to the so natural fluoride according to the CDC center for disease control

[1:08:08] natural fluoride enters water primarily through geological processes. Minerals

[1:08:14] dissolve and release fluoride. Natural fluoride and added fluoride

[1:08:18] ultimately provide flu fluoride ion in the water. Your body does not have a

[1:08:25] specific or special mechanism that can tell whether a fluoride ion came from a

[1:08:32] natural mineral or from a fluoridation chemical. However, the original chemical

[1:08:38] compound added to municipal water may not be the same chemical compound in

[1:08:45] which naturally occurring fluorides exist.

[1:08:49] So for example, fluoride naturally occurs in groundwater and surface water

[1:08:53] as minerals uh dissolve and and by the way we do need fluoride

[1:08:58] natural fluoride at very minimum amounts. Okay, so that's that's a fact.

[1:09:03] One common natural source is calcium fluoride.

[1:09:07] The chemical compound uh code for that is CF2.

[1:09:13] Keep that in mind. Although fluoride can occur in association with other minerals

[1:09:19] and dissolved species, fluoride added to the municipal water

[1:09:25] hydrofluoroisic acid the the compound

[1:09:31] uh for that is H2S6 which if you look is a is a is is a

[1:09:38] synthetic carc carcinogenous uh uh chemical. Sodium fluorocyicate is Na2S6

[1:09:50] and sodium fluoride is NAF. [clears throat] These are all um BPA

[1:09:56] tops identifying these as fluoride fluoridation chemicals. So they're not

[1:10:01] they're chemicals. They're not natural products. These are manufactured

[1:10:06] processed chemical compounds not the same minerals from which natural

[1:10:10] occurring fluoride enters groundwater. Okay. So,

[1:10:15] uh, here is public health statement from the CDC and the ATSDR public health

[1:10:21] statement about fluoride. So, here's one that I will submit to you guys. Okay.

[1:10:34] Are there any health risks from fluorides for people and pets? While the

[1:10:38] public has been assured of its safety, in actuality, the Environmental

[1:10:43] Protection Agency, EPA, has has acknowledged that no chronic

[1:10:50] health studies have been done on this fluoride chemical. Does that remind you

[1:10:55] of something? So, here you are. Eat this, take this, but we haven't really

[1:10:59] done the necessary tests to make sure that this stuff is good for you. Did we

[1:11:05] kind of go through that in 2020? I think it was.

[1:11:11] » In March of 2006, the National Research Council NRC completed a three-year

[1:11:18] review of the peer-reviewed research on fluoride.

[1:11:22] Numerous adverse health risks were cited such as disruption of the nervous and

[1:11:27] endocrine systems including the brain and thyroid, bone fractures and joint

[1:11:33] pain. A recently published heard stud Harvard study concluded that there was a

[1:11:40] sevenfold risk in osteocaroma or bone cancer

[1:11:47] among young boys after exposure to fluoridated water.

[1:11:52] This study may have implications for dogs since many of us here love our

[1:11:57] dogs, our pets since osteocaroma or bone cancer is the most common bone tumor

[1:12:04] diagnosed in dogs in the US. Now remember when you think about this

[1:12:11] that a lot of the tests done uh beauty products, you name it,

[1:12:18] whatever. When you go to a lab and they do tests, what do they use? Dogs and

[1:12:24] mice, right? So keep that in mind.

[1:12:30] So I printed out a couple of the posters and stuff that I came across online.

[1:12:36] I'll pass these around for you guys to take a look.

[1:12:41] The four numbers, let's let's set a baseline real quick. The four numbers

[1:12:44] that frame this debate. Fluoride is measured in milligrams per liter.

[1:12:50] Mg/ milligrams per liter. Keeping these thresholds straight is key to the whole

[1:12:55] discussion here. So right now level 0.7 [clears throat]

[1:13:01] mg per liter is a level added to US water systems current federal

[1:13:07] recommendation and it's what Owensville is doing. 1.5 milligrams per liter is

[1:13:13] the WHO safe limit uh level where federal science most

[1:13:19] clearly links harm. 2.0 0 milligrams is the EPA a secondary

[1:13:25] standard for cosmetic and dental flu races for example 4.0 Now getting into

[1:13:32] the red levels is EPA maximum legal limit before enforcement action.

[1:13:39] The margin is thin. EPA's own practice is to build is to build in a 10 times

[1:13:46] safety buffer applied here as safe on under in quotations level would be plus

[1:13:53] or minus 0.15 mg per liter. We add nearly five times

[1:13:58] [clears throat] that amount to every tab. State of Indiana already lowered it

[1:14:03] to 0.7 milligrams, which is what we have now, right? I can

[1:14:08] pass it around just so you guys have a an idea of the numbers.

[1:14:14] Just important as I pull up this, let me pass this around too. The concentration

[1:14:19] [clears throat] may be fixed at 0.7 milligrams, but an

[1:14:23] individual's fluoride dose increases as they consume more water. And this is

[1:14:28] always the big question. If the fluoride concentration in water stays the same,

[1:14:33] drinking more of that water means you ingest more fluoride. Facts.

[1:14:38] It's it's essentially a dose calculation. fluoride intake from water

[1:14:43] milligrams per day equals fluoride concentration milligs per liter times

[1:14:48] water consumed per day. Okay. At the commonly recommended

[1:14:53] commonly recommended 0.7 mg concentration

[1:14:58] one liter which is four cups of water for those who don't know how much a

[1:15:02] liter is. Four cups of one liter equals four cups of water. So if you drink four

[1:15:08] cups of water, you're getting 0.7 milligrams per day.

[1:15:14] Okay. How many cups of water is it recommended

[1:15:19] that we drink per day? >> Eight.

[1:15:21] » Eight. So 2 lers per day is 1.4 milligrams per day. That's eight cups.

[1:15:27] So eight cups of water per day. If you only drink eight cups of water per day

[1:15:32] and you don't eat anything else or drink anything else, you now have 1.4

[1:15:38] milligrams of water of uh of uh fluoride in your body.

[1:15:46] 3 liters 2.1, four liters 2.8 and so on. The

[1:15:53] Nationalmies has published intake estimates showing exactly this

[1:15:57] relationship. At 0.7 milligrams per liter, an adult

[1:16:02] consuming 1,000 ml gets about 0.7 0.70

[1:16:10] 0.70 milligrams of fluoride, while 2,600 mls gives about 1.82

[1:16:18] milligrams. Keep in mind that 0.77

[1:16:23] milligrams per liter, this is important to remember, is a concentration. It is

[1:16:29] not a daily dose. So for example, 0.7 mg per liter * 1

[1:16:37] liter equals 0.7 mg of fluoride. 0.7 mg per liter time 2 L

[1:16:47] is 1.5 millig of fluoride. So I don't want to bore you with the uh you know

[1:16:53] all of that detail but just I just want to go so you guys can understand this

[1:16:57] whole thing. So it's important to note the dose per kilogram of body of body

[1:17:03] weight becomes particularly important when comparing adults with infants and

[1:17:09] children. So we're basically dozing our children,

[1:17:14] our babes the same that we're dozing adults.

[1:17:18] Does that make sense to you? Uh, [clears throat] okay. So, for

[1:17:24] example, someone drinks drinking three liters of 0.7 milligrams

[1:17:30] water every day would ingest about 2.1 milligrams of fluoride per day.

[1:17:36] 14.7 mg per week, 63 milligrams per 30 days, and about 767 milligrams per year

[1:17:46] just for water alone. This is fluoride ingested, not necessarily fluoride absor

[1:17:52] absorbed or retained by the body. Those are two different concepts which I'll

[1:17:57] touch on in just a moment. So basically when you drink water or any product or

[1:18:03] any food that has fluoride, your body doesn't get rid of it through

[1:18:08] urine, for example, doesn't get rid of all of it. It accumulates in your body.

[1:18:12] Another one to keep in mind.

[1:18:18] The National Academyy's 2006 review estimated that an average consumer

[1:18:23] drinking about one liter per day of community water at 0.7

[1:18:28] milligrams per liter would receive a 0.70.70

[1:18:35] milligrams per day. While a higher consumer drinking about 2.1 lers per day

[1:18:41] would receive approximately 1.5 milligrams per day from community water

[1:18:46] alone.

[1:18:50] Again, it's important to remember the National Research Council Council

[1:18:54] specifically emphasis that fluoride exposure should be considered on a body

[1:19:00] weight basis because infants and young children can have substantially greater

[1:19:05] exposure per kilogram than adults. Um so [clears throat] then I I have you

[1:19:12] know in here you know if you drink moderate water you're getting about 730

[1:19:19] to 1,95 milligrams of chloride. In 50 years you're getting 36.5 to 54.75

[1:19:27] gram. Uh these figures represent estimated

[1:19:31] cumul cumulative intake not the amount retained in the body. Again that's

[1:19:37] important to remember. actual exposure varies based on drinking

[1:19:41] water, diet, beverages, dental products, and individual consumption patterns.

[1:19:47] So then I went down the sorry I just love the term lately the rabbit hole

[1:19:52] because that's how I feel it. I went down the the foods and I looked at all

[1:19:57] of the foods and I found an interesting one. Did you guys know that most soda

[1:20:02] beverages contain fluoride?

[1:20:06] A study of 332 carbonated soft drinks found fluoride concentrations ranging

[1:20:11] from 0.02 to 1.28 milligrams per liter with an average of

[1:20:18] 0.72 milligrams per liter. The researchers noted that the variations

[1:20:23] was likely related largely to the water sources used in production. And by the

[1:20:29] way, if the water gets boiled and they're boiling water to make some of

[1:20:32] these things, which they do, I found out there's deposits of fluoride and other

[1:20:37] things that end up in the in the drinks. Um,

[1:20:42] so then they've done more studies recently

[1:20:46] and now a more recent study of 200 soft drinks found an average of 1.38

[1:20:52] milligrams in carbonated soft drinks, although concentrations vary

[1:20:56] considerably. So, a 12 oz can of Mountain Dew

[1:21:03] has 0.26 milligrams of fluoride. A 16 oz bottle for 173 ml has 0.34

[1:21:12] milligrams. Why am I bringing these up? Because again, it's not just the water.

[1:21:16] We have to eliminate what we can. But, but there's other things that we are

[1:21:21] taking. So by reducing a little bit here and there and what we can control

[1:21:26] because unfortunately we can't control everything right but if we can eliminate

[1:21:30] on what and control what we can then we're we're helping to reduce that. So I

[1:21:35] [snorts] thought that was interesting

[1:21:40] and here are you're going to be relieved to see all

[1:21:44] these pages go aren't you? These are studies [clears throat] on all

[1:21:50] of that. Okay, hold on a second. Make sure that

[1:21:57] Okay. So, here's more studies that I'll make available to the town and I can

[1:22:02] make available to any of you. If you contact me, I'll send you PDX

[1:22:07] couple more studies on some of the things I just spoke about.

[1:22:14] All right. [snorts] Fluoride, potential health concerns.

[1:22:19] thyroid. Various studies have reported an association between higher fluoride

[1:22:23] exposure and changes in thyroid function. Now, if you know a little bit

[1:22:27] about what the thyroid does in your system,

[1:22:31] you you'd be worried, right? Brain and development. Fluoride fluoride has been

[1:22:35] classified as a developmental neurotoxin causing problems in cognitive

[1:22:42] development in in and IQ in children and also ADHD.

[1:22:49] pregnancy. Some studies suggest that fluoride exposure during pregnancy may

[1:22:54] cross the placenta and potentially affect fetal

[1:22:58] neurological development. IQ reviews of studies conducted in areas with

[1:23:04] relatively high fluoride exposure have reported lower average IQ scores among

[1:23:11] exposed children. bones. Excessive fluoride exposure can contribute to

[1:23:16] skeletal plurosis, which can cause bone and joint problems.

[1:23:22] Of course, higher risk groups are more susceptible to these things, such as

[1:23:27] people with certain conditions, including poor kidney functions, may be

[1:23:31] more susceptible to fluoride accumulation and toxicity.

[1:23:35] The key issue is the level of exposure and the balance between potential

[1:23:40] benefits and risks. Three studies show that boys who drink fluoridated tap

[1:23:45] water between the ages of six and eight face a heightened risk of osteocaroma

[1:23:52] the rare but deadly form of bone cancer associated with fluoride. This was in

[1:23:57] the base in 2006 cooho 1992 DHHS 1981. I have some of those here that I will

[1:24:05] provide for you. If you have an infant, do not use fluoridated water to make

[1:24:11] formula since these would give the baby a very high dose of fluoride. Infant

[1:24:16] formula reconstituted with fluoridated water gives the baby 250 times more

[1:24:23] fluoride than naturally in breast milk.

[1:24:29] The 1993 National Research Council NRC says tens of millions of children have

[1:24:36] visible signs of overexposed of overexposure to fluoride dental

[1:24:41] fluosis. The fluoridation program has not notably fallen short of achieving

[1:24:46] one of its primary objectives, reducing dental decay rates while minimizing the

[1:24:52] side effect of overexposure to fluoride from ingestion during early childhood

[1:24:57] development called dental fluorosis.

[1:25:02] Also, the Journal of American Medical Association pediatrics

[1:25:09] stated in 2025, that's last year guys, a

[1:25:14] metaanalysis of 74 studies across 12 countries publish published in one of

[1:25:20] the most respected pediatric journals found a dose response relationship. As

[1:25:27] fluoride goes up, children's IQ goes down.

[1:25:33] 1.63 IQ points. Estimated drop per additional 1 milligram of fluoride.

[1:25:46] So what are some recent developments developments around this?

[1:25:51] Dr. Limeback, one of the scientists on the prestigious panel of the national

[1:25:55] research cons council that reviewed fluoride toxicity has said that their

[1:26:00] report is highly relevant to the policy of fluidation. Dr. Limebeck has stated

[1:26:07] that and I quote the evidence that fluidation is more harmful than

[1:26:11] beneficial is now overwhelming. On August 19, 20 uh 2005, the EPA unions

[1:26:20] representing over 7,000 professional employees called for a nationwide

[1:26:26] moratorum on fluidation and also a congre congre congressional

[1:26:31] investigation of this policy. In June 2005, scientists at the Environmental

[1:26:37] Working Group asked the National Institutes of Health to list fluoride in

[1:26:43] tap water as a carcinogen. [snorts]

[1:26:47] So, manipulating science, which came first,

[1:26:50] sugar or tobacco? 1940s to 1950s, the sugar industry

[1:26:56] manipulates American Dental Association positions on fluoride.

[1:27:05] The fluoride deception published by Christopher Bryson in 2004 exposed the

[1:27:10] sorted history of foreignation. 400 page book. I read the whole thing. If you

[1:27:14] have questions, I know somebody had questions. Bryson discusses how industry

[1:27:19] and the military work behind the scenes to bury or alter studies indicating

[1:27:23] fluoride toxic effects. Bryson discusses research commissioned by the fluoride

[1:27:30] lawyers committee whose members included major industrial companies such as

[1:27:35] Alcoa, US Steel, Kaiser Aluminum, and Reynolds Metals. The Karing Laboratory

[1:27:41] at the University of Cincinnati conducted animal research into fluoride

[1:27:46] toxicity. I actually got to read that study also, but I believe I have it

[1:27:50] here. According to the publishers's description, a roughly $500,000

[1:27:56] study found evidence of fluoride related damage to the lungs and lymph nodes of

[1:28:02] laboratory animals, but the study was never published and was effectively

[1:28:06] buried. Bryson says he located a copy decades later in archival material. That

[1:28:12] copy is now available. His case is primarily about suppressed unpublished

[1:28:17] research, government secrecy, industry funded research, and the almighty

[1:28:23] conflicts of interest. Selective interpretation scientists whose careers

[1:28:27] were affected when they challenged prevailing

[1:28:31] conclusions, declassification documents showing that forite toxicity had legal

[1:28:37] industrial significance beyond beyond dentistry.

[1:28:42] Uh, a 2004 review in chemical and engineering news characterized Bryson's

[1:28:47] evidence as compelling evidence that powerful interests with financial stakes

[1:28:53] had worked together to prematurely close discussions on fluoride toxicity. The

[1:28:59] almighty dollar always prevails, doesn't it? In 2001, Dr. Herszy, senior vice

[1:29:05] president at Porter's union, spoke to the US EPA on behalf of the of his union

[1:29:10] doctors. He said, I quote, "In summary, we told

[1:29:15] that fluoridation is an unreasonable risk. That is, the toxicity of fluoride

[1:29:21] is so great and the purported benefits associated with it are so small, if

[1:29:27] there are any at all, that requiring every man, woman, and child in America

[1:29:32] to ingest it borders on criminal behavior on the part of governments."

[1:29:39] And here's one of the

[1:29:42] uh the sugar industry's efforts to manipulate research on fluoride

[1:29:47] effectiveness and toxicity. A 90-year history. I read this whole thing also

[1:29:52] for you guys. Results. I'll summarize it. Records dating back to the 1930s.

[1:29:59] Demonstrate the sugar industry sometimes in cooperation with dental interests.

[1:30:05] exaggerated fluoride's effectiveness and downplayed safety concerns. The sugar

[1:30:11] industry's science manipulation campaign preceded the better known tobacco

[1:30:18] industry campaign defending cigarettes. Key leaders of the sugar industries

[1:30:23] campaign transferred to the tobacco industry which then adopted many of the

[1:30:28] sugar industries tactics and financed research from some of the same sugar

[1:30:34] conflicted scientists. [cough] Currently a prominent safety issue with fluoride

[1:30:39] is developmental neurotoxicity. Evidence indicates that researchers with

[1:30:46] undisclosed conflicts of interest with sugar and allied industries produced

[1:30:51] biased reviews downplaying the risk.

[1:30:56] Conclusion: Recently available records reveal a long

[1:31:00] history of the sugar industry distorting fluoride science. Many of the sugar

[1:31:06] industry tactics were later adopted by the tobacco industry and mirrored by

[1:31:10] industries involved in asbestos, lead pesticides, climate change deni, climate

[1:31:17] change denial and others. Researchers and policy makers should be aware of the

[1:31:22] distorted scientific record regarding fluoride effectiveness and toxicity.

[1:31:30] [laughter]

[1:31:35] I promise you I'm almost done here. Fluoride. Uh, okay. So, questions about

[1:31:42] Oh, but my teeth, you know, all this. So, the international recently, very

[1:31:47] recently, the international academy of oral medicine and toxicology says

[1:31:54] fluoride exposure in human health. In their studies, they say increased

[1:31:59] sources of fluoride exposure. Mind you, this is this is the International

[1:32:04] Academy of Oral Medicine and toxicology. They're the guys who who do the studies

[1:32:09] whether dentures are good for you or not or if uh if fluoride or other things are

[1:32:16] good for you or not. Okay. So, increased sources of fluoride exposure are

[1:32:19] accompanied by increased human health risks.

[1:32:24] Therefore, it has become a necessity to reduce and work toward eliminating

[1:32:28] avoidable sources of fluoride exposure, including water fluoridation, fluoride

[1:32:34] containing dental materials and other fluoridated products.

[1:32:39] The potential health risks generated from exposure to these sources of

[1:32:44] fluoride are often overlooked. Additionally, age, gender, genetic

[1:32:49] factors, nutritional status, weight, and other factors are known to influence

[1:32:54] each person's unique reaction to fluoride.

[1:32:58] Okay? And then on their this guys, this was copied and pasted from their

[1:33:04] website. It's not me putting stuff together, okay? I want you to understand

[1:33:07] this. This is on their website, on their on their books, on their Okay. And then

[1:33:13] they they go on to mention what they've studies they've you know they've

[1:33:18] conducted these are independent studies acne and other dermatological

[1:33:23] dermatological conditions bone weakness and risk fractures cardiac failure

[1:33:30] cognitive deficits diabetes if you have diabetes it it it influences it it just

[1:33:37] makes it worse I guess. uh and I'll skip through some of these.

[1:33:43] Myioardial damage, arterial calcification,

[1:33:47] arter uh arterioclerosis, cancer of of the bone, osteocaroma,

[1:33:55] cardiac insufficiency, arm to fetal brain, immune system

[1:34:00] complications, lower IQ, neurotoxic effects including ADHD,

[1:34:06] thyroid dysfunction. So in their studies they found what other studies were also

[1:34:11] finding.

[1:34:15] If you don't know what dental fluorosis is, there's a picture. I'm sure we've

[1:34:20] seen this. So is fluorid so is fluoridation

[1:34:25] effective? Are the benefits which outweigh the risks? Are there

[1:34:30] benefits which outweigh the risks? There is now agreement among dental

[1:34:34] researchers that any benefit of fluoride in fighting tooth decay comes from

[1:34:38] direct application to the teeth not from ingestion.

[1:34:45] Um the effect effectiveness of fluoridation is more myth and science.

[1:34:51] Most European countries are not fluidated yet. The World Health

[1:34:55] Organization statistics statistics show that European dental decay rates have

[1:35:01] gone down [snorts] in Europe. In addition, major US cities such as

[1:35:07] Seattle, Chicago, Cincinnati, and Boston have been flidating for decades.

[1:35:14] Yet, they all are reporting rampant tooth decay among children.

[1:35:19] Adequate dental care and nutrition diet are critical in reducing tooth decay and

[1:35:25] both are absent in the low-income populations of these cities.

[1:35:30] I've had some questions. Is baiting or swimming in fluoridated water harmful

[1:35:34] for us or our pets? The only thing I could find

[1:35:39] it was that several studies indicate that fluoride can be absorbed through

[1:35:43] the skin, but much more research I think is

[1:35:47] needed. But if it's absorbed through the skin, I would assume, again, I'm not a

[1:35:52] doctor or a scientist, but if fluoride can be absorbed through the skin, you're

[1:35:56] taking a shower in fluoridated fluoridated water or swimming in your

[1:36:01] pool that's loaded with that. Uh it's it's being right.

[1:36:07] Uh so it [clears throat] is medically

[1:36:12] irresponsible and unethical to administer to everyone

[1:36:18] without informed consent the same medication without first determined

[1:36:22] individual need. This is what the world health organization also said.

[1:36:28] So we have [clears throat] 72 studies

[1:36:33] that assess the fluoride IQ link. Um but actually after an 8-year

[1:36:40] systematic review, the federal government's toxicology program

[1:36:44] concluded with moderate confidence that higher fluoride exposure is consistently

[1:36:50] associated with lower IQ in children. I have to reiterate on that. I I used to

[1:36:55] be a teacher. So for me this is important. 72 studies assessed the

[1:36:59] fluoride ink link. 88% of them, 64 studies found lower IQ with higher

[1:37:06] fluoride. 18 of 19 studies of the highest quality studies show the same

[1:37:11] association.

[1:37:16] Let's go to the legal things, legal finding.

[1:37:20] A federal court has already weighed in in this evidence. the Food and Water

[1:37:26] Watch versus EPA in uh September 2024, they determined, and I quote, "Foridated

[1:37:35] drinking water presents a risk of injury to health."

[1:37:40] Judge Edward Chen found that fluoridation at the recommended 0.7

[1:37:45] milligrams per liter poses an unreasonable risk of reduced IQ in

[1:37:51] children under the Toxic Substances Control Act in order that the EPA take

[1:37:58] in order the EPA to take regulatory action.

[1:38:04] » Who who was that? >> That was the uh the food and water watch

[1:38:09] versus EPA. It was in the US District Court of

[1:38:14] uh Intel ND California September 2024. It's on that packet that I gave you.

[1:38:22] So, we wouldn't be alone. The country is

[1:38:26] already moving on this. Um numerous states including Florida and many others

[1:38:33] have already eliminated uh fluoride out of their water 100%.

[1:38:39] Federal you have a uh September 2020 for a federal court ruling.

[1:38:45] You have JAMA pediatrics peer-reviewed meta analysis links

[1:38:50] chloride to lower children IQ and other health problems which I've mentioned

[1:38:54] already. The HHS and EPA reviews show also the same uh problems in and u in

[1:39:04] what it can do to our health. um statewide bans Utah, Florida and then

[1:39:10] Florida become the first states to ban fluidation

[1:39:14] and so the way it spreads uh the FDA now is moving on children's fluoride to drop

[1:39:20] it get rid [snorts] of it and and it's that's something that they're trying to

[1:39:24] do mind you that next door to us already got rid of fluoride

[1:39:31] if you didn't

[1:39:38] So, you know, I could go into the whole, you

[1:39:42] know, why are you medicating us? Medicating a whole town without

[1:39:45] individual consent, no informed consent. Fluor fluoride works on contact. One

[1:39:51] dose for everyone is wrong. A 20 pound infant in a 120 pound adult get fluoride

[1:39:57] from the same water with no ability to adjust for body size or health. I talked

[1:40:01] about that. Uh,

[1:40:07] and that's it. I think I'm going to stop there. I think I've given you guys tons

[1:40:11] of information. I hear people falling asleep behind me. So, I I'm just going

[1:40:14] to give you guys now some of these studies. Fluoride,

[1:40:20] uh, friend or foe. >> You know, if that's your five minute

[1:40:23] presentation, [laughter] I'm just kidding.

[1:40:27] » I'm going to keep my mouth shut, but here. All right. friend or foe.

[1:40:32] Uh prenatal exposure to fluoride. Here's

[1:40:36] one study, one of many studies. Uh parental fluoride exposure and

[1:40:42] attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Here's a study. Prenatal

[1:40:48] fluoride exposure the outcomes in two US pregnancy cohorts. Remember I told about

[1:40:54] uh fluoride passing the placenta and causing problems. So here's that study.

[1:41:00] Fluoride exposure in children's IQ scores. There's one. The effect of

[1:41:04] fluoride on cytotoxicity uh involved in mitochondrial dysfunction

[1:41:13] ingestible fluoride drug products. Uh scientific evaluation of use benefits

[1:41:21] and risks in the pediatric population. These ones actually come from the FDA

[1:41:27] and I found a website actually Billy led me to that website fluoride Action

[1:41:32] Network. Um it has a ton of information. Uh and of course some people are going

[1:41:40] to say well they're biased guys. The American Heart Association is biased.

[1:41:46] Okay. uh fluoride action network really has a

[1:41:51] page in there with a collection of all of a lot of the studies not all of them

[1:41:55] a lot of these here are not in there but but it has a collection of of studies so

[1:42:00] if you want to educate yourself and you want to get information they have a ton

[1:42:05] of information and for me it's like this I like med I like IA I like you know you

[1:42:11] can go there and research and they have everything cataloged in there all of

[1:42:15] these researches aail available online. Uh you can literally go to med and and

[1:42:21] find all of that. >> Yeah.

[1:42:23] » Okay. >> So,

[1:42:25] » you ready to get to the question and >> Yeah.

[1:42:28] » answer portion? >> Do my best? Yes.

[1:42:31] » Okay.

[1:42:35] [snorts] >> Mr. Taylor,

[1:42:36] » anybody else got any? >> I believe that

[1:42:39] you have the floor in this. Isaac, you have questions?

[1:42:44] Thanks for doing a good job. >> Hey Joe, I we we appreciate

[1:42:50] » all of the information that you've given us. You're welcome.

[1:42:52] » Um

[1:42:57] I do have to say that I'm glad that um we all had the

[1:43:03] opportunity ourselves >> Yeah.

[1:43:05] » to research um outside of this presentation. Um and I'm not I'm not

[1:43:11] saying anything about your your presentation. It was great. It was full

[1:43:15] of [snorts] uh information and knowledge. [clears throat] Um but it was

[1:43:21] very clearly based toward removing fluoride. Um

[1:43:29] there are also arguments guys. This brought up to me two years ago um and

[1:43:35] Corey. So we've been back and forth. Um [clears throat]

[1:43:40] we've talked about it a little bit. has been brought up again

[1:43:45] and uh there are arguments on both sides of it. Um because if there wasn't, it

[1:43:52] wouldn't already be in the water. So um with that in mind, Corey has some

[1:44:00] questions for you. Um I don't think Isaac has too many. Maybe a few.

[1:44:05] » Yeah, a few. Okay, >> we'll let Cory go first.

[1:44:08] » And so we're gonna we're gonna give Cory the floor for a minute. Sure. You don't

[1:44:11] want to get yours out. >> And and that's basically why I like I

[1:44:15] said right at the beginning, I looked at both sides,

[1:44:19] » you know, like a scale. And and the more I read, the more I and and when I

[1:44:24] started seeing the the facts of the sugar industry skewing things, you know,

[1:44:29] I started finding a lot of foul cheese in there and a lot of all of this stuff

[1:44:32] that goes on unfortunately in this world. And of course, then, you know,

[1:44:38] the scale for me started tipping because and and and that's that's absolutely

[1:44:42] fine. I mean, [clears throat] honestly, I already knew that before you

[1:44:47] done this because you're very passionate about it. You've been very open about

[1:44:50] it. Um, but we're going to let Corey ask some questions.

[1:44:56] Um,

[1:44:59] so

[1:45:03] first off, Billy, I know you're on vacation. Would you confirm something

[1:45:08] for me? I think I asked you this, but I wasn't really sure how to answer.

[1:45:12] Um, Vanessa gave me these. These are the

[1:45:17] water reports we have that I think we send to

[1:45:21] » at least we do we have it available for everybody.

[1:45:24] » I know we have like information on here as far as our

[1:45:28] » levels, >> wellad or le our toxicity levels.

[1:45:32] » Yes. >> Bacteria levels, things like that.

[1:45:37] Um, okay. Well, the wellhead

[1:45:42] information is in here. I mean, we can not in here, but we can there's a note

[1:45:46] in there that you guys can you guys can get it. I know there was on Facebook

[1:45:50] there was a question about arsenic at one point runoff from farms and fields

[1:45:55] and you know there is a board that kind of monitors all of that and checks on

[1:46:00] all those things and it's all stuff that has to be sent in to I think we work

[1:46:04] with Wesler on their other side another department to put all that information

[1:46:09] together for the public. Um,

[1:46:17] where do I start?

[1:46:22] Um, so you mentioned

[1:46:29] that the stuff that we put in we use to fluoridate the water

[1:46:34] hydro florosic. >> We use the sodium fluoride.

[1:46:38] » We use the sodium fluoride. >> I mentioned the three mostly. Yeah.

[1:46:44] » Uh well, you specifically called out HSA, HSW or whatever

[1:46:51] » HFS um as a

[1:46:57] byproduct is sodium fluoride a byproduct of

[1:47:03] » industrial chemical synthetics and

[1:47:09] » that's from from what I've red. The sodium fluoride is actually

[1:47:17] a compound that is produced, not scraped off of a

[1:47:24] » okay >> pollution.

[1:47:28] » The study is there. You could, you know, find it.

[1:47:34] » Um,

[1:47:37] so I just I I'm concerned. concerned. I'm not necessarily concerned about

[1:47:42] everything that you >> still wait for a question.

[1:47:46] » I know maybe I'm not want to ask a question.

[1:47:50] Maybe I just want comments. How about that? Okay. Can I comment?

[1:47:54] » Absolutely. >> Sure can.

[1:47:55] » Cool. >> Okay. Um Okay. So, I'm just This is This

[1:48:01] is the first thing, right? And so, it's not pharmaceutical grade. It's toxic.

[1:48:05] It's a carcinogen. Yet, we're going to say we're medicated.

[1:48:09] Well, okay. Medication would be pharm pharm.

[1:48:16] If we're not medicating, if it if it is toxic, then no, we're actually poison.

[1:48:21] Is that what she would say? >> Okay.

[1:48:27] » But we're but we specifically use medication for lack of consent. Anytime

[1:48:33] you administer a chemical

[1:48:39] or a product that is something like that, you're you're

[1:48:44] medicating somebody uh

[1:48:48] or poisoning them. >> Well, in this case, yes.

[1:48:52] » Okay. I mean, the studies and the

[1:48:57] stuff that I presented to you or the stuff that I read point links to all of

[1:49:01] that. >> Gotcha.

[1:49:04] Well, I I looked up a lot of these

[1:49:11] that you pointed out. Um, let's go here to Mr. Hardy Limeback.

[1:49:20] Um I listened to him. He was talking about this was uh 1999 I

[1:49:27] think somewhere late 90s >> somewhere around

[1:49:30] » um and he said that the evidence of fluidation is more harmful than

[1:49:35] beneficial. Um I think if I'm not mistaken

[1:49:41] one of the things he was talking about was fluoride supplements, pills and

[1:49:47] drugs. literally talks about foridation of water water foration.

[1:49:53] » He did bring that up. >> Yeah.

[1:49:56] » Um in August 19th, 2005, you said the unions representing over 7,000

[1:50:03] professional employees called for a nationwide moratorum on fidation and

[1:50:08] also congressional investigation of it. >> What came about that moratorum?

[1:50:15] » Did they did they enact it? Uh they they they did some of it but as that's why I

[1:50:22] brought in the sugar industry. >> Yeah.

[1:50:23] » Things get shut off and get thrown under the rug

[1:50:27] » because companies like the sugar industry or the tobacco industry in this

[1:50:32] case [snorts] the sugar industry basically put money in the right

[1:50:36] people's pockets and things get pushed to the side.

[1:50:40] » Well, so actually they did not enact it. >> I I don't think so. No, it was brought

[1:50:45] up, but it was never reconnected. It was thrown in that

[1:50:48] » and and the reason the reason they said they they didn't do it is that

[1:50:52] » that the standard recommendation levels are safe.

[1:50:57] » The what? >> Standard recommend recommended levels

[1:51:00] are safe. >> Well, that's what they try to pass. If

[1:51:03] you look at if you read the book like I did, they they mention

[1:51:08] » this isn't a book. This is this is the unions.

[1:51:11] » Yes. But that's also in the book. That's part of all of that. the findings. If

[1:51:15] you read the book, it talks about all of these findings.

[1:51:17] » Yeah, I went I went to the actual >> Okay.

[1:51:20] » And they said that they stopped uh they they did not enact it because

[1:51:25] they stated that the recommended levels are actually safe.

[1:51:29] » Yes. And that's why I brought up the sugar industry and all of that where

[1:51:33] just to show that >> unfortunately there's things that are

[1:51:37] brought up, >> you know, they find they find studies,

[1:51:40] they have studies, they fund studies, other independent companies fund studies

[1:51:44] and they find problems with fluoride in this case and things get shoved under

[1:51:51] the rug because you know the big industry basically paying these people

[1:51:55] to hash keep it down because this is not beneficial for us. else to explain that

[1:52:00] to you, but that's pretty much >> So the unions were paid off.

[1:52:05] » Some unions were paid off. Some of the >> pull back the moratorum.

[1:52:10] » The biggest concern for me is not even the getting paid off. It's the

[1:52:13] scientists who are paid off and the studies that conclude that fluoride is

[1:52:18] good for you were conducted by scientists who are being paid by the

[1:52:22] sugar industry. That's what my problem with all of this.

[1:52:26] » I got you.

[1:52:30] » Um, and you you put down here in June 2005, scientists at the Environmental

[1:52:35] Working Group asked the National Institutes of Health to list fluoride in

[1:52:38] tap water as a carcinogen. >> Mhm.

[1:52:42] » Was it? >> Yes.

[1:52:44] » Actually, it wasn't. >> No, they they they did recommend that.

[1:52:48] » I mean, I looked it up. It's not labeled by anybody as a carcinogen. No, you

[1:52:52] asked me a question. I'm sorry. Ask me that question again. Maybe I didn't

[1:52:56] understand. >> In June 20, you put in June 2005.

[1:53:01] » Uhhuh. >> Scientists at the Environmental Working

[1:53:03] Group asked the National Institutes of Health to list fluoride in tap water as

[1:53:09] a carcinogen. >> Yes, they did ask that.

[1:53:11] » They did ask it. >> So, what was your question?

[1:53:14] » Did the NIH list fluoride as a carcinogen?

[1:53:20] » That I don't know. They did not. >> Okay. [cough]

[1:53:25] » Why did not Why did they not? >> Uh because because there's no study

[1:53:30] showing specifically with imperial imperial evidence

[1:53:36] » that it is the cause the cause >> of cancer.

[1:53:42] » So you're going to tell me that all of the other 80 something studies

[1:53:48] » go ahead >> that showed that and they're right

[1:53:50] there. some of them on your table. They're all wrong.

[1:53:53] » One that shows >> I'm not saying that.

[1:53:57] » Well, I'm just >> Okay.

[1:53:59] » Okay. >> The uh So, you you had in here about the

[1:54:04] fluoride deception um by Christopher Bryson.

[1:54:10] » Um he discusses how industry and the

[1:54:13] military work behind the scenes to bury or alter studies. Yep. Manhattan

[1:54:17] project. Um, I never really

[1:54:22] » Did you read the book? >> No, I'm not going to read.

[1:54:24] » I read the book 400 pages of Would you like me to describe it for you?

[1:54:27] » Not really. >> Okay, because I can if you want. Also,

[1:54:31] run home and get the book if you want to read it.

[1:54:33] » It's okay. >> Um,

[1:54:40] see about that.

[1:54:45] Um,

[1:54:50] so here, well, here's another one. Um,

[1:54:56] is it required to flidate your water? >> No.

[1:55:00] » Okay. So, here you put 2001. Dr. William Persie,

[1:55:05] senior vice president of headquarters union said,

[1:55:09] "In summary, we hold that flidation is an unre unreasonable risk that is toxic.

[1:55:14] It's the toxicity of fluoride is so great blah blah blah

[1:55:20] uh that requiring every man, woman, and child in America to ingest it is

[1:55:26] criminal. Well, we don't have to add it. >> No, no, we don't.

[1:55:31] » So, it's it's not required to force people.

[1:55:34] » Only thing we have to do is disinfect it. Make sure there's no microorganisms

[1:55:38] in it. >> But that's what he said. That's what he

[1:55:40] said. Yeah. Um, I'm just kind of pointing out that

[1:55:45] it's it's not required. Um,

[1:55:50] I'll do this here. Uh, so you said, "How can we uh how can we and our pets avoid

[1:55:55] fluoride explo exposure?" Well, yeah. Avoid it by don't drinking it. Don't

[1:56:01] drink it. Don't take other things. I agree with that. If you don't want to

[1:56:06] have it in you, don't drink it. Ingest it. Um,

[1:56:11] » I had a lot more about water and dogs and all that, but I removed it just for

[1:56:16] the sake of time. >> Yeah.

[1:56:22] » You know that it's been uh advised by the EPA and CDC for decades

[1:56:29] not to give your infants fluidated water.

[1:56:34] I mean, I know when I had kids, that's we used nursery water, which was bottled

[1:56:39] water with no fluoride, right? >> But a lot of people don't know that.

[1:56:43] » Yeah. >> Unless you go out and read it and study

[1:56:48] it and educate yourself. >> Yeah, I know. This is crazy how much is

[1:56:51] out there. Um

[1:56:56] CDC actually recommends that children three and older

[1:57:02] that they do use fluoride fluoridated tap water.

[1:57:08] That's what that's what they said on the website. But then the dental

[1:57:12] association, right, that I mentioned in there has studies that say otherwise,

[1:57:18] right? >> So what do you mean that?

[1:57:20] » Yes. Not what I found. >> And also the case that you decide you

[1:57:28] cited from your stuff, the ninth circuit case, it's been overturned and demanded

[1:57:32] because of procedural errors and that they didn't touch the science in the

[1:57:36] original court case. >> Well, well, here let's clear this up

[1:57:40] because so the judge said that they needed to do something about it, that

[1:57:44] they needed to investigate it. >> It was overturned because that judge

[1:57:49] overreached. That's what I found. And he he didn't

[1:57:52] have the authority to to force that. >> Yes. But it was a procedural opinion. It

[1:57:57] was not scientific or have any merits regarding fluidation or anything. It was

[1:58:01] a procedural thing and it's been overturned.

[1:58:07] Um,

[1:58:11] the NRC 2006,

[1:58:18] what did they determine

[1:58:22] as far as the recommended levels? Do you guys do you remember?

[1:58:28] » That's okay. Yeah. So, >> so, so the way they had it is that um.7

[1:58:35] to 1.2 millgram per liter was the

[1:58:41] » was the old standard >> was the the

[1:58:46] suggested the recommended level. >> I think they've actually dropped it in

[1:58:52] 2014 2011 or 2014 to just saying 7, right?

[1:58:58] » Yes. two

[1:59:01] milligrams is actually the secondary. You said that secondary

[1:59:06] uh warning. >> So, it's it's the beginning of the hey,

[1:59:10] we're going to potentially have a problem. Four is the anything above four

[1:59:18] milligrams per liter is is becomes an issue. So if we did if we did that

[1:59:27] at what we say three liters a day I think the average for a man's 3.7 and a

[1:59:33] average for a woman is 2.7 adult talk about adults would be what?

[1:59:39] So we take three times four and that's 12 milligrams

[1:59:44] a day is the is the tipping point if you will

[1:59:53] and they recommended to lower that. They did they did recommend to lower that. Um

[1:59:59] 2.0 was the level because that's whenever they started seeing that dental

[2:00:03] fluorosis. Does that make sense? [snorts]

[2:00:07] Um, is dental fluorosis a health risk? >> Yeah, you lose your teeth.

[2:00:12] » Okay. Well, they don't actually call it a health risk

[2:00:16] because it's cosmetic issue. >> Have you looked at dental ferosis look

[2:00:22] like? >> Oh, yeah.

[2:00:23] » Okay. >> You don't think that's a health risk? I

[2:00:26] mean, again, >> I'm not I'm not saying what I think.

[2:00:28] » Doctor, I'm just saying >> I'm saying what the powers that be say

[2:00:32] it is. >> If my if my teeth start looking like

[2:00:34] that, I'm concerned. probably the ones in the pockets, I guess. Um,

[2:00:46] if one of the um in 2005, the Centers for Disease uh

[2:00:53] control reported that 32% of US children had some sort of uh form of dental

[2:01:00] fluorosis >> is what you put in here.

[2:01:02] » Yeah. Uh

[2:01:07] but on nonfidated uh children

[2:01:13] they had up to five times more tooth decay

[2:01:19] from from [snorts] that same thing, same

[2:01:23] study. Um

[2:01:30] you know uh what do you what would you attribute to the main cause of tooth

[2:01:35] decay? >> Me personally.

[2:01:38] » Yeah. >> Diet issues. Sugar.

[2:01:40] » Sugar and they have related that to the sugar

[2:01:46] increase in our diet. >> Sure.

[2:01:48] » Not the fluoride levels.

[2:01:53] Um,

[2:02:00] you sent me to fluoride alert.org. I think I think that's where I went.

[2:02:09] Uh, and you know, we talked about biasedness

[2:02:12] and I think you even mentioned this at the end that everybody has has an

[2:02:16] agenda, right? And their main goal is to stop flidation.

[2:02:21] because they believe that the the cons outweigh the pros, right?

[2:02:26] » Yeah. But they have a bias and >> so does the medical heart association.

[2:02:32] So does the diet American diet u you know when you believe in a cause I guess

[2:02:39] I don't know what to tell you if you believe you do the study do the research

[2:02:42] and you believe that something is not good you going to research it and

[2:02:47] [snorts] you know

[2:02:49] » yeah so here at the end of your references you referenced Buzzal 2004

[2:03:00] you know you know a lot of these these things these these these cases were were

[2:03:04] good. Um you'll notice that most of them prior to 2006 which is the NF NRC 2006

[2:03:13] uh review uh a lot of this stuff actually created

[2:03:20] all these standards that we have now. Basel

[2:03:25] » uh food was added as a risk factor for fluorosis

[2:03:29] not just water fluoridation. >> Oh yeah of course I did mention that

[2:03:34] » fine in 2001 found that bone meal was the cause of the high fluoridation.

[2:03:40] » It can be sure >> in in dog food

[2:03:44] » because because uh as I mentioned too fluoride when you when you ingest

[2:03:49] fluoride your body doesn't get rid of all of it. it accumulates it in your

[2:03:53] body and the the area where it accumulates it the most is your bones.

[2:03:58] So for example, bone broth. People who enjoy bone broth have to be very careful

[2:04:02] because depending where that bone broth is coming from because they could be

[2:04:06] extremely high in fluoride. [snorts]

[2:04:13] » Uh so you said uh during the last Well, maybe you didn't say this. I don't know.

[2:04:19] You gave this to us. Uh >> remember everything that I put in there

[2:04:24] is based on the research that I did and find that I um in the research train. So

[2:04:30] » right

[2:04:34] you have in here it says during the last 15 to 20 years there's been a revolution

[2:04:39] in our understanding of fluoride's effects on teeth. It is now well

[2:04:43] established that fluoride exposure is directly and proportionately related to

[2:04:47] dental fluorosis. A range of adverse health effects that includes modeling

[2:04:52] pittling and pitting and weakening of the teeth.

[2:04:57] And one of these you cited as for that which you know dental I

[2:05:04] think that's pretty pretty well uh agreed upon

[2:05:08] uh still affected that systemic over topical

[2:05:14] was better for its lower safer exposure >> topical

[2:05:19] » systemic over topical

[2:05:24] for just feder fedc 12

[2:05:29] study.

[2:05:33] Uh, I just, man, I just some of these statements, man, when I

[2:05:39] got into them and I and I looked at what you found it on, I just went a little

[2:05:46] further and found, but then it goes back to

[2:05:50] fluoride is associated with an issue, but not

[2:05:54] necessarily the cause. And I mean there in all the of the

[2:06:02] things that I looked at it came back to fluidating water was the best result the

[2:06:09] best way to affect the certain areas of the country that can't

[2:06:17] get dental health. I think that's really what the issue is is we're fluidating

[2:06:22] the water not for the people who can go to the dentist all the time. It's for

[2:06:27] the people who don't.

[2:06:32] And I mean

[2:06:36] I don't know.

[2:06:40] I don't know. >> [snorts]

[2:06:45] » I found a lot of this inflammatory, I guess, is what I'm really saying. The

[2:06:49] osteocaroma.

[2:06:52] They couldn't they they couldn't determine Well, actually, I think I

[2:06:56] think I did find one one place where it was linked to silicates

[2:07:03] uh pulling lead out of pipes,

[2:07:09] lead uh lead and brass fittings. And that was creating an issue because

[2:07:14] silicates are what? >> Minerals.

[2:07:19] » Spinach [clears throat] has silicates in it.

[2:07:21] » Huh? >> Spinach has silicates.

[2:07:24] » Yeah. Well, probably because we water them with fluoridated water.

[2:07:28] » It's depending on the soil that the plants grow in.

[2:07:31] » Yeah. I mean, I I don't know. I mean, um,

[2:07:37] I I guess what I wanted to ask you on this was, is this something that we the

[2:07:42] testing that we do that you're putting on this report? Is that before or after

[2:07:46] we flate? >> That's after.

[2:07:48] » That's after. >> Everything is sent to a third party lab

[2:07:54] on those reports. Um, Eli Labs out of Madison, Indiana does all of our outside

[2:08:00] testing for circle for the majority of things.

[2:08:06] Um, also you you mentioned that uh

[2:08:14] at at at 4.0 then they could enforce an issue on us

[2:08:20] and they can't, can they? We can't be we can't we can't do something about our

[2:08:26] flidation if it's high naturally. Well, it's not

[2:08:33] » I I know but there are places in the country where it is.

[2:08:36] » There's places in the country where it's where it's 10 milligrams per liter.

[2:08:39] » Yeah. >> 12.

[2:08:42] » I mean, but there's no process in which we can reduce it.

[2:08:47] » Well, filtration systems. >> Well, without filtration, so it's we're

[2:08:54] not set up for all that. That's >> we don't need it.

[2:08:57] What I'm saying though is it's not you can't enforce

[2:09:02] » like there's no law saying we have to be below a certain level.

[2:09:05] » Yeah, there is. >> There is law.

[2:09:08] » Same thing with our sneaking everything else.

[2:09:10] » Well, that one there is

[2:09:14] lead >> and fluoride also. If your fluoride is

[2:09:17] above the recommend >> I didn't find one on fluoride.

[2:09:21] » Arsenic and radium is found in fluoride. If you even touch radium, your skin gets

[2:09:26] severe or reaction. >> Why? Why does it come from there though?

[2:09:30] » It's >> Why is it contained in it? It's not

[2:09:32] really contained in it. It's just in the mixture that's found in the same

[2:09:37] fluoride. Radium is found in the same material

[2:09:41] that's used during the industrial >> found I gave you the research

[2:09:44] » because it's found in the ground. That's where radium's found.

[2:09:49] » When the products are being man made from products that are things you would

[2:09:54] not want to put on your table for yourself to eat, for example. Okay? And

[2:09:59] they're making these chemicals to create these, [snorts]

[2:10:03] you know, whatever additives you need to put in your water. It's it's in there.

[2:10:08] You just have to do the research. I I provided some of you for it. Go do

[2:10:14] the research. you will find it. >> What I'm saying is I did it

[2:10:20] » and I came to a different conclusion. [snorts]

[2:10:24] » So, >> I'll tell you,

[2:10:26] » you you're entitled to your different >> I'm not trying to be inflammatory at

[2:10:32] all. I just basically compressed the 45 minute

[2:10:35] » presentation. Okay. >> As I go.

[2:10:38] » All right. I think um

[2:10:45] I think we've beat this horse horse to death, as they

[2:10:49] say. Um I I personally I'm ready for a vote.

[2:10:56] Cory, are you ready for a vote? >> Sure.

[2:10:58] » Isaac, are you ready for a vote? >> Yeah, let's get her done.

[2:11:02] » Before we vote, Isaac, do you have anything to say?

[2:11:06] Uh main thing that I found um health effects aside

[2:11:11] uh in terms of being for taking it out is it's just not necessary to have in

[2:11:17] the water anymore. We get fluoride >> like you said everywhere else. Um there

[2:11:22] is a little bit of a cost with it. Um but it's a scale. Another thing that

[2:11:29] one thing that you said and this is kind of verbatim. You said forcing people to

[2:11:33] consume fluoride. You don't have to drink the water if you don't want to.

[2:11:39] So, you got to think about that, too. >> Yeah.

[2:11:49] » And I mean, it's not required by the state.

[2:11:52] » No. >> So, it's really up to our discretion.

[2:11:57] » Maybe there isn't a right or wrong. maybe just

[2:12:02] » so my so my take on it um is

[2:12:10] when this practice was adopted um dental procedures were different

[2:12:17] um dental availability was different

[2:12:23] um I feel like even in even at at the lower standard of living,

[2:12:32] putting it as nicely as I can. um

[2:12:39] dental care is available for most children

[2:12:45] cuz I know I know that um it is provided um through uh dentists that give up um a

[2:12:55] portion of their time to help children at schools

[2:13:00] um that that don't have the ability to to go to the dentist on their own or

[2:13:06] with their parents help. Um, fluoride is readily

[2:13:13] um available in other manners, whether it be through the dentist or

[2:13:21] through um special products that you ingest.

[2:13:26] Um, when you drink water,

[2:13:31] how much of that is actually going to your teeth? Because you're drinking the

[2:13:35] water. 99% of the time, you're not swishing the water around in your mouth

[2:13:40] » to get get the the fluoride on your teeth. I mean, it's it's just going

[2:13:46] straight in. Correct. >> Yeah.

[2:13:48] » Um, so

[2:13:53] » Yeah. Those are some things that I thought of

[2:13:58] whenever I was making up my mind on top of a lot of the research that was um

[2:14:06] given [clears throat]

[2:14:10] from Pedro and other people of our community that would like to see it

[2:14:15] removed. Um, I know there are a few

[2:14:21] because I've had way more I've had a lot more people come to me that don't want

[2:14:25] it than would like to keep it, especially since Pedro started putting

[2:14:29] things on uh Facebook. Um, I have seen a few more people that would like to keep

[2:14:35] it, but I've still see way a lot more people that want to get rid of it.

[2:14:41] Um, >> I haven't had anybody come to me saying

[2:14:43] they want to get rid of it. I've actually had

[2:14:47] Many people come to me and tell me they want to keep it.

[2:14:53] » Is there anybody here that attended today that wants to keep it or remove

[2:14:58] » I just just one thing and forgive me. I know this thing bomb for everybody.

[2:15:03] First off, the next time we do this, I want one of those chairs.

[2:15:08] I don't want one of these again. All right, let's let's just get that out of

[2:15:12] the way. That's definitely something I need. I think really what we're talking

[2:15:14] about here is a cube of effect, right? We get fluoride everywhere, right? I'm

[2:15:18] drinking coffee, I'm drinking tea, you're grabbing a Coke, getting a

[2:15:21] Gatorade, Similac, Enfamil, whatever it is, everything has fluoride in it. I

[2:15:27] can't really totally control that. That's not something that I could do.

[2:15:32] But I'm getting the fluoride that I need. So, where can I control it? And

[2:15:37] and it is at this local level is I think that's that's just what it is right now.

[2:15:42] And So to have the addition of fluoride when it's not necessarily needed because

[2:15:49] of the sources that we get it from should we continue to add it. So it

[2:15:54] still builds in our bodies. It builds in our children's bodies. It builds in the

[2:15:59] pets bodies and to the point that it does start to create problems at this

[2:16:06] which we can we can all see. I don't care what side you're on. Everybody

[2:16:08] knows that there's issues if you overdo anything,

[2:16:11] » right? I think we can all agree with that and that's what we're starting to

[2:16:14] do. We're starting to see the open use [cough]

[2:16:18] of it and um that's the reason we're here. We wanted to support it at this

[2:16:23] level to say listen I got plenty of it. I get in my toothpaste. I got plenty of

[2:16:27] it. >> Yeah.

[2:16:28] » You know what I mean? What can I help control to limit accumulating in my

[2:16:33] body? This is one of the ways we felt that we would have some power to be able

[2:16:38] to to do that and help that issue. We also we can't sorry

[2:16:44] » no go ahead >> we can pick not to drink the water but

[2:16:47] some people don't have the resources to not shower with the water not put it on

[2:16:51] our skin brush our teeth with the water we're still ingesting it and what you

[2:16:55] said it can't absorb through our skin are still soaking our bodies in it

[2:17:02] » about those that can't afford to buy bottled water and they have to drink

[2:17:06] that water >> or the people who are worried about

[2:17:08] bioplastics from plastic Okay. So, so with that,

[2:17:12] » Yes, sir. >> So, if they can't afford bottled water,

[2:17:15] they probably also can't afford a regular

[2:17:21] dental care reg, you know, they can't afford to go buy toothpaste every month.

[2:17:25] They can't afford to buy uh mouthwash every other week, you know. Um, so

[2:17:34] without without picking at straws

[2:17:38] because that that we could do this all night long.

[2:17:43] Um, I think it's time. I think it's I think

[2:17:48] um us we up here we pretty well already

[2:17:54] everybody at this table has made up their mind. Um there's not going to be

[2:17:57] any more changing it. At this time,

[2:18:02] I would like to put it up for vote uh to remove

[2:18:08] fluoride from the water system

[2:18:13] beginning immediately.

[2:18:17] Do I have a second? >> Second.

[2:18:21] » All those in favor? I >> I

[2:18:24] all those not in favor?

[2:18:28] » Nay.

[2:18:32] » Okay. Two to one. We will be discontinuing fluoride in the Osville

[2:18:37] water system.

[2:18:43] Okay. Well,

[2:18:46] » thank you. >> I thank everybody for coming for that.

[2:18:49] Um, everybody that showed up on either side of keeping it or um

[2:18:57] getting rid of it. All the research that was done, [snorts]

[2:19:03] we thank you and if

[2:19:08] somebody feels the need to come speak about it, we can still

[2:19:13] talk about it. Just because we got rid of it doesn't mean that it can't still

[2:19:17] be a discussion. Maybe at this point it can just be a personal discussion. and

[2:19:21] you can just come talk to us and ask us why.

[2:19:26] All right. [clears throat] Um, there will be a special meeting on September

[2:19:31] the 10th at 6 p.m. um with the Owensville Town Council and Mainstream

[2:19:38] and both of their

[2:19:42] legal councils, their legal council and ours.

[2:19:46] » Um, he said he could be available by phone. I didn't know if you wanted him

[2:19:50] to actually >> if he does if he doesn't need to be then

[2:19:52] it's not that big a deal. >> I think it's just coming up with what

[2:19:55] you all want the agreement to say and then we'll draft something and then

[2:19:59] we'll get it to them and then they can come back with the counter offer, sign

[2:20:02] it or whatever they want to do. Um I thought it'd be best for you all to just

[2:20:07] make up your mind what you guys want. Um >> and then start from there.

[2:20:13] » Thank you. So [snorts] again, that is September the

[2:20:17] 10th at 6 PM and then uh the adoption of the 2027 budget will be September the

[2:20:22] 15th at 6 PM. These two

[2:20:27] will get to uh vote to adopt that. I have to

[2:20:32] abstain because I'm on the fire department

[2:20:36] » and Indiana law has not cut up caught up with fire districts yet. So that's fun.

[2:20:43] Um, the next town council meeting will be

[2:20:47] » October the 6th at 6:30 p.m. >> With that, I will make a motion to

[2:20:53] adjourn the Orangeville Town Council meeting on September the 1st at 8:23

[2:20:59] p.m. Second.

Town Of Owensville, Indiana - Town Council Meeting September 1 2026

Transcript