[0:01] meeting to order and ask you to join me please in the pledge of allegiance.

[0:09] » I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

[0:15] republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and

[0:21] justice for all. >> Shirley, would you take roll call,

[0:25] please? >> Mayor Hannah

[0:26] » here. Mike Connell, Bob Porter. here. Mazi

[0:31] » here. >> Christel here.

[0:33] » Mr. Palmer >> here.

[0:38] » I'm sorry. I I'm >> Did you have him for the teacher?

[0:44] » That's why it won't happen.

[0:58] Looking for approval of our agenda for tonight.

[1:03] » I move that we adopt the agenda as printed.

[1:07] » Second. >> We have a motion from Mindy, seconded by

[1:11] Kamal. All those in favor of that motion, please signify by saying I.

[1:15] » I. >> Those opposed? Nay. Motion passes.

[1:21] And to approve our council meeting minutes from August 20th,

[1:25] » I move that we suspend the rules with the readings and approve the minutes

[1:28] from August 20th regular meeting. >> I think we need a correction

[1:35] » to the council meeting minutes. Okay. >> Is or not? I don't know. Wasn't it Kathy

[1:40] Edwards? >> It was the film.

[1:43] » Yes, it sure was. Minor >> um

[1:48] » I would change that. not Dennis Malloy but

[1:51] » and Alex so I will make sure that I change that.

[1:56] » Thank you for that, Mindy. >> So Kamal, if you'd like to redo your

[2:02] motion indicating a correction. >> I move that we correct the minutes,

[2:08] suspend the rules, and wave the readings. Uh the correction is uh

[2:15] » Kathy McGrath as the uh who was present with studio 123 wave the readings and

[2:23] approve the minutes from August 20th regular meeting.

[2:27] » Second. We have a motion from Kamal seconded by Kristen. All those in favor

[2:32] of that motion please signify by saying I.

[2:34] » I. >> Those opposed nay. Motion passes.

[2:39] I'm not aware of any pre-approved reports or presentations for tonight. So

[2:44] we'll still >> Why? It's Edwards. Kathy Edwards.

[2:50] » Oh, sorry. No, you're fine.

[2:53] » I make another motion that we corrected to Kathy Edwards instead of Kathy

[2:59] McGraw. And I move that we suspend the rules, wave the readings, and approve

[3:05] the minutes from August 20 regular meeting.

[3:08] » I second. >> Oh, that's never going to change for me

[3:11] there. Sorry. We have a motion from Kamal, seconded by

[3:16] Kristen. All those in favor of that motion, please signify by saying I.

[3:21] » I. >> Oppose. Nay. Motion passes.

[3:26] » Thank you. Thank you. And thank you. I'm not aware of any pre-approved

[3:32] reports or presentations. So, we'll move into public comment. And I believe Mark

[3:38] Absy is here to address council. >> I am. Thank you very much. you have.

[3:49] » Good evening, Mayor Han and council members.

[3:52] My name is Mark Absy. Uh my wife and I married or my wife and I my wife Mary

[3:57] and I moved to town uh September of 20 or April 2023. So we've been here for a

[4:05] few years. Uh we came from St. Charles, Michigan, which is about 40 mi up the

[4:11] road where we owned a bar in a bowling alley for 26 years and um moved down

[4:18] this way because I I work in Mesa as a credit manager.

[4:23] Is that me? >> I know.

[4:25] » Got it open. >> That's me.

[4:32] [laughter] If if you could hold that thought for

[4:35] just a minute, we'll suspend till Kamal turns the car off.

[4:43] » I'm sorry.

[4:50] » I just don't want Kamal to miss any of your presentation.

[4:53] » Yeah, it's going to be riveting.

[5:05] Sorry. >> It's okay.

[5:09] » Can I reclaim my time? >> You may go ahead.

[5:12] » Yes, you may. Go ahead. >> All right. So,

[5:16] uh just give you a little background, but um now our next big endeavor, we

[5:21] thought we were going to retire, but looking around, uh we have we're trying

[5:26] to gain financing to purchase the Williams Furniture building and we're

[5:33] going to renovate it and put in a self-s served laundromat.

[5:38] Okay. So, the reason I'm here tonight uh is to talk about the residential

[5:43] equivalently equivalent units or REUS assigned to

[5:48] self-s served laundry. And I know way more about RUS than I need to know and

[5:53] John even can testify cuz I'm questioning him too. Um, tonight I'm

[5:59] respectfully requesting that the city review the RU factor assigned to

[6:03] self-service laundry within city utility ordinance. This piece of paper that you

[6:09] guys that I gave you is the residential equivalency unit for a bunch

[6:15] of any kind of commercial enterprise that

[6:19] can possibly be around. And this is what is being used to determine the benefit

[6:24] reus for any commercial property. To my knowledge, anything that I could

[6:31] find indicates that this was in the ordinance since 1987.

[6:36] Okay. So, it's been around a while. So, under the current ordinance, self-s

[6:41] served are assigned a 050 RU per washer. My concern is not whether the connection

[6:48] fee should exist. My concern is whether the assumption used to establish this

[6:53] factor still reflects the realities of modern commercial laundry equipment.

[6:59] Commercial washing technology has changed dramatically over the past three

[7:03] days or three days, three decades. Uh the

[7:07] second thing that I have is the data backing that up. So while I'm talking

[7:11] you at least at some point there industry data shows that modern

[7:15] commercial frontload washer extractors use approximately 40 to 65% less water

[7:21] than comparable machines used when many of the reu schedules were really

[7:25] originally developed. Few of us here are old enough to remember the old washing

[7:29] machines with the agitators that had to fill all the way up with water. That

[7:32] doesn't happen anymore historically. Commercial laundry equipment often

[7:37] consume 3 and 12 to 5 gallons of water per pound of laundry processed.

[7:43] Modern high efficiencies high efficiency equipment typically consumes 1 and 12 to

[7:48] 2 and 12 gallons. The laundromat that I'm proposing will include four 30 lb

[7:54] washers, three 40lb washers, and three 60lb washers. really representing the

[8:00] larger families in Perry and less on the end of renters and things that we have.

[8:06] All these machines are modern high efficiency units designed to reduce

[8:10] water consumption through advanced controls, optimize wash cycles and load

[8:14] sensing technology. My question is simple.

[8:18] If the original REU factor was established using water demand

[8:22] assumptions from equipment that existed more than 30 years ago, should the same

[8:27] assumptions continue to be applied to equipment that uses substantially less

[8:31] water? I want to be clear. I'm not asking for special treatment. I'm not

[8:37] asking for the fees to be waved and I'm not asking for council to make a

[8:41] decision tonight. I'm asking that the city review the self-s served laundry

[8:46] factor using current commercial washer consumption data. If that review

[8:52] concerns the existing factor remains appropriate, I'll respect that

[8:56] determination. However, if the review shows the modern

[9:00] equipment generates significantly lower water demand than the equipment used

[9:04] when the standard was created, then I believe the reu schedule should be

[9:10] updated to reflect today's technology. Governments, utilities, and businesses

[9:16] routinely update standards as technology changes. This may be one of those

[9:22] situations. I respectfully request that council

[9:25] direct staff to review the self-service laundry reu factor and report back with

[9:30] their findings. Thank you for your time, consideration, and service to the city

[9:35] bar. My final closing statement, I'm not asking the city to lower a fee. I'm

[9:41] asking the city to make sure the fee is based on current data rather than decade

[9:46] old assumptions. Can you share with us the resources that

[9:52] you use in developing this these numbers?

[9:55] » Come on. We don't typically u address during public comment.

[10:00] » Okay. >> Okay. Um

[10:02] » thank you John. >> I have none.

[10:04] » I had

[10:07] typ typically during public comment we don't engage in conversation.

[10:12] » Okay. But what should be done is that the council determines if they would

[10:17] like to place this on the agenda for discussion,

[10:21] » okay, >> at a future meeting. And um

[10:26] at that meeting we would discuss

[10:31] whether council would recommend having our engineer of record review this and

[10:38] see if there is grounds to >> because they they are the experts. they

[10:43] will know [snorts] what the uh you know recommendations would be and then it

[10:49] would come back from them and then come back to council and then determination

[10:53] would be made. >> Absolutely. Perfect. Thank you.

[10:57] » Um I'm looking for council to make a recommendation to place this on the

[11:03] agenda for our next meeting. Would anybody like

[11:07] » placed on the agenda for the next meeting?

[11:09] » Second. >> We have a motion from Mindy. Second from

[11:13] Kimal to place this on the agenda at our next meeting. All those in favor of that

[11:18] motion, please signify by saying I. >> I.

[11:21] » Motion passes. Thank. So this will be on our next

[11:26] meeting agenda. We'll discuss it. Most likely it'll be referred to our

[11:32] engineers of record or OM. They'll review it all and make a recommendation.

[11:38] » Very good. Thank you. >> You're welcome.

[11:57] Any other public comments? Shirley, do you have communications for

[12:03] us? >> I do, but this is something that will go

[12:06] on the agenda for the next meeting also, so you guys can accept it. Um, dear

[12:12] Clerk Smith and Mayor Hammond, please accept this email as my resignation from

[12:17] the City of Perry Planning Commission, it has been a pleasure to serve our

[12:21] community, and I am grateful for the chance to meet so many wonderful people

[12:25] along the way. I hope that when my circumstances change, there will be

[12:29] another opportunity to ser our city in some capacity. I look forward to that

[12:35] day. Thank you for your dedicated service and continued commitment to all

[12:40] those I'm sorry to those you serve so faithfully um sincerely Genevie Catrell.

[12:48] » So thank you. [clears throat] >> So could you put on the agenda of the uh

[12:54] council to respond to that for our next meeting?

[13:03] Um, just a few other things. I did pass out something that Mark did email um

[13:09] earlier this week. So, you guys have >> that I think it's the letter that you

[13:14] just >> Yeah, it was it was a recommendation

[13:16] that I had, but I just didn't want I didn't have enough time to get involved

[13:19] in. So, if you if they have it, then you could take a look at it. It just ties

[13:23] into what I just said. >> Yeah. So, the other thing that I handed

[13:26] out to you, um, Kamal asked for like water sewer comparison rates from other

[13:31] municipalities. >> Um, so there's a few there and then I

[13:36] also added in what our current rates are right now for the discussion later

[13:40] tonight. So, that's it.

[13:45] » That's it. Thank you very much. Thank you for doing those comparisons.

[13:51] Um, looking at mayor reports and department head reports. Um, John Sa,

[13:59] superintendent of the DPW.

[14:04] » Good evening. Um, so we wrapped up uh our fall fire hydrant flushing this or

[14:11] around around lunchtime uh today. Um the biggest thing going on is

[14:18] consumers gas distribution has come into town and it's predominantly in the older

[14:24] sections of town and they're replacing [clears throat] service lines. This is

[14:28] not the city doing this. There was no uh premeating or anything like that. It was

[14:34] just they're they're coming and doing it. So, um, so far we've done between 75

[14:41] and 80 m digs in the last two weeks, and I believe there's another

[14:49] 60 or so more. They said 130 to 140 sites. Um,

[14:56] so what I'm asking, uh, or just hopefully we've had to go out and

[15:01] restake stuff and it's not a lot, but people have ripped flags out, thrown

[15:07] them in the streets, different things like that. I realize that there's uh,

[15:12] it's an inconvenience. There's paint marks everywhere. Uh, the polygons that

[15:17] they're requesting are quite massive uh, at times. Uh we don't always know

[15:23] exactly where the gas mans are. We know where most of them are, but um so all

[15:28] I'm asking is the residents just be patient um while this project goes

[15:34] through >> and don't pull the stakes up, right?

[15:37] » Yeah. Give it at least a week. If you notice, there's there's some that you'll

[15:40] see digging on one side of the road and they may not have to fix the gas line.

[15:44] Most people, I believe, got letters. Um I I'm not privy to what everybody gets

[15:51] in the mail. So um you know it's just there's we've already had to go back and

[15:57] remark uh I think about a dozen of them today. So because they their time has

[16:04] expired. Anyway, uh city hall parking lot has been seal coated and striped. I

[16:11] think it looks good. Um just an update the park the parking lot

[16:17] between East third and east 2nd um behind Charlie's uh and

[16:24] uh the eye doctor and the dentist office. We're

[16:30] kind of looking at around the 14th through the 20th uh give or take

[16:35] depending on weather. If we have wild days like today, it'll push it around a

[16:39] little. Um, so, uh, we're planning on handing out tags, uh, and letting

[16:46] everybody know kind of a ball frame ballpark

[16:51] ballpark uh, area that when it would will happen. So, it's going to be an

[16:57] inconvenience for a long-term how I don't even know when it was paid

[17:03] last. I don't have any record of that. So, um,

[17:09] the other thing is, um, I would kind of like to see people not

[17:15] blow grass into the streets. I can't really do anything about it, but it

[17:19] plugs up the catch basins. People complain that the catch basins, we got

[17:23] to go around and dig them out. It's just I I've seen a lot in the last couple

[17:29] weeks. It was dry for a month and a half, not a lot of mowing. Um, now I'm

[17:36] I'm having to hand out uh weed notices. So if your lawn's over 6 in tall so that

[17:42] the DPW doesn't want to have to do it. So just appreciate following the

[17:49] ordinance and if you own a lawn, go ahead and get it clipped.

[17:54] That's about all I have. Anybody has anything for me?

[17:57] » Any questions for John? Anyone? >> Thank you for all your hard work and

[18:02] your crew. Megan, do you have stuff for us?

[18:07] Very tiny.

[18:11] Hello. >> I don't have a lot to report tonight.

[18:14] Um, two non-treasure related things. Um, I have a couple businesses in town that

[18:19] are working on organizing a Halloween uh main treats on Main Street is what we

[18:23] usually call that event. It is going to be in coordination with the fire

[18:26] department's fall safety event. It'll be October 25th from 2:00 to 5:00 pm. Um,

[18:32] so Kim from the Orite Hair Salon and Karen from Kodets are working together

[18:37] to get the word out to businesses. Um, so you'll be hearing more about that

[18:41] soon as we have more details. Um, I met with a contact from Consumers

[18:46] Credit Union this last week. We have four money market accounts with them.

[18:50] Um, two of them are up for renewal. Um, and the new rate we're getting on those

[18:54] right now is going to be 3.8% 8% which is slightly higher than what it was at.

[18:58] We have two others with them that renew in December I believe. Those are at

[19:02] 3.4%. He's going to try and roll them all into renewing now and get them all

[19:06] up to the 3.8%. That is about all I have this week.

[19:13] Any questions for Megan? Anyone? >> Thank you. Good job with all your stuff.

[19:19] Thank you. Surely the only thing I that I'm going to report is the open

[19:24] vacancies on council um right in declaration of intent is um due October

[19:31] 23rd if anyone is still interested in running for a council seat or even the

[19:36] mayor seat. Um and that would be due in my office. And uh that's really it.

[19:44] That's all I have tonight. I'm sorry that was not

[19:47] » There's more information about that on our website, right?

[19:50] » Yes, on our website. Did you put that on there again? I think she did. Yeah.

[19:53] » Yeah. It's been there for a long months. >> Yeah.

[19:58] » Anything else? >> No, that's it.

[20:00] » Sorry. >> That's okay. Uh Chief Box said he didn't

[20:04] have anything to report tonight, so he is not here. Um and my will follow with

[20:11] what Shirley had to say. We now have or will have two open seats on the planning

[20:18] commission. Um those can be filled by any resident of the city of Perry who is

[20:24] interested and qualifies to serve. They can contact city hall for more

[20:29] information or go to the city website. There is more information there as well

[20:34] that Megan posted. And um I think that would answer any questions you might

[20:39] have. The planning commission meets the first Monday of every month. Um they

[20:47] might meet more often if there's something that needs to be addressed. Uh

[20:51] but typically it's that once a month meeting.

[20:56] And we also have now on our council committees an open seat on our ordinance

[21:06] committee uh with Larry Lambert leaving and resigning. Mindy has agreed to serve

[21:12] as the ordinance committee chair. She was already on the committee. Mike

[21:16] Connell is the other council member who serves there. Typically, [clears throat]

[21:21] we'd like three council members on each committee and um the ordinance committee

[21:28] meets when needed. They don't have a regular meeting date like the planning

[21:33] commission does. Um but I will need a council member to serve. So, if you're

[21:40] willing to do that, please let me know or let Shirley know. I'd appreciate

[21:46] that. Do we have any committee reports

[21:50] tonight? This would be one of those committees, but we don't have any

[21:56] committee reports. So, we'll move on to presentation and approval of the bills.

[22:02] » I move that we approve the bills as presented and may be authorized.

[22:08] » Second. We have a motion from Kamal, seconded by Kristen. All those in favor

[22:13] of that motion, please signify by saying I.

[22:16] » I. Those opposed? Nay. Motion passes.

[22:24] Moving into old business. I see nothing there.

[22:29] So, on to our new business. And our first um item is to approve

[22:37] excusing our council member Mike Connell from meetings

[22:42] during football season. So looking for any discussion. Anyone has sort of

[22:48] questions about that or a motion.

[22:53] » I move that we approve the absence of Mike Connell and excuse him from city

[22:57] council meetings effective September 3rd, 2026 through November 1st, 2026 due

[23:03] to prior obligations. >> Second.

[23:06] » We have a motion from Kamal, seconded by Mindy.

[23:10] All those in favor of that motion, please signify by saying I.

[23:13] » I. Those opposed? Nay. Motion passes. Now we'll move into our discussion

[23:23] regarding the possible water sewer rate increases.

[23:29] Anyone would like to open that discussion, feel free. Well, I want to

[23:34] start by thanking Megan and uh Shirley for all their their help in assisting

[23:42] getting a lot of numbers and emails. >> And I was thinking,

[23:49] do you guys want to table the conversation until Bob is here, maybe

[23:54] next week, um to discuss it more and have more

[24:00] input? or do we want to have that discussion today?

[24:04] » We won't be setting a rate tonight. >> That's not the purpose of tonight.

[24:09] » The purpose of tonight is to set a public hearing.

[24:15] » Well, I think that timeline was to decide the the amount of the increase

[24:22] tonight. >> That was the

[24:24] » um council determines the rate increases on September 3rd

[24:29] » and set the public We're going to set the

[24:31] » Yeah, I think you need to know what the rate is that you're asking for to set

[24:36] » to set public. >> Well, then let's discuss Kamal's

[24:40] recommendation. Council open for discussion regarding

[24:44] that. >> I feel really bad that Bob's not here

[24:48] because I'm sure he has some good in.

[24:53] » Aren't we also on a deadline for um having everything in place?

[25:01] in order for it to be effective. Didn't we say we wanted it by

[25:08] » we want January? >> I think we Yeah, I think we want to have

[25:11] it approved by January. >> Yeah. So

[25:13] » So would that upset? Well, I mean, you could always

[25:18] you could not you could discuss it at the next meeting, but we still but you

[25:23] would have to make a decision at the next meeting and we would set the public

[25:27] hearing for October 1st, the first meeting in October,

[25:31] but you would have to make sure you like the increase amount is up

[25:40] decided next meeting. Either that or we just

[25:44] won't meet the deadline, >> right? I don't think we would probably

[25:49] meet the deadline if we keep >> Let me just ask Megan because I think

[25:54] it's important for Megan to be at the meeting when this is discussed because

[25:59] as our treasurer, she'll be able to answer questions that I'm sure you'll

[26:03] have. Megan, are you able to attend the next council meeting?

[26:12] the 17th, right? [clears throat]

[26:16] » Yeah, I think so. >> John John, you won't be in town, right?

[26:21] Correct. >> Okay.

[26:22] » John certainly is involved in the the uh rate increase discussions and also would

[26:28] be able to perhaps answer questions that you might have.

[26:32] » But he's going to be gone. >> I won't be able to post that. have

[26:36] enough time to post it in the paper to publish it

[26:39] » to post >> 15 days.

[26:41] » Post what? >> A public hearing in the paper. There's

[26:45] not enough days. >> But you're saying you set the date on

[26:48] the 17th for the 1st. There's not enough days between them.

[26:51] » No. >> So the public hearing would have to be

[26:52] at the second meeting in October instead of the first meeting in October.

[26:55] » Yeah, >> I see what you're saying.

[26:57] » And like with the way the Arcus Press >> does their paper now, they only publish

[27:02] three days a week. So, I would have to like post it tomorrow. Come in and post

[27:07] it tomorrow if we set the public hearing for the first

[27:11] or whatever we do. But we can't set a public hearing because you don't we're

[27:14] not setting a rate, >> right?

[27:17] » If you don't set the rate tonight, we can't set the public hearing

[27:23] um tonight. If we have to wait until the next

[27:27] meeting, then if I understand what you're saying is

[27:30] » you wouldn't have enough time to post to have the public hearing then on the 1st

[27:35] of October. It would have to go to the second meeting of October.

[27:42] Then where does that put us as far as having the

[27:47] public hearing the second meeting of October

[27:51] and voting on it that night and establishing what the rate increase is

[27:56] going to be? When does that does it take 30 days to

[28:01] » to publish it? >> Yeah.

[28:03] » No, it doesn't take 30 days, but I don't know the exact there's just not enough

[28:07] days like after se So September 18th to October 1st or

[28:13] » No, no, I know that part. I'm saying from the time the second meeting October

[28:18] then would become probably when the public hearing would be.

[28:23] » Okay. If the council after the public hearing actually sets

[28:30] what the rate increase is going to be, when does that

[28:35] » I don't >> how long does it take for that to go in

[28:37] effect? Is it 30 days to go into effect? >> The rate increase.

[28:41] » Okay, I understand. Um it's whatever the resolution says,

[28:46] » right? Okay. So, it could be >> I was just asking you what that said,

[28:49] » but it's not going to be effective until July 1st.

[28:53] » Correct. >> Yes. So, it could be there. I don't know

[28:57] what the old resolution said. I would kind of probably copy that same one,

[29:02] have Justin approve it, and um >> Okay. So, in there, it does have to go

[29:08] to the city attorney for review and approval.

[29:11] » Yes. >> And uh

[29:13] » to make sure everything looks good. Mhm. >> So there in lies the complication.

[29:19] » What would you like to do? Do you want to try to set the rate tonight? You want

[29:23] to discuss it and do that or shall we table it until next meeting hoping that

[29:30] Bob's here >> myself? I'm ready to discuss it.

[29:33] » Sure. >> Um,

[29:38] » come on. Was your your >> I was just I was just trying to

[29:45] Sometimes he does have good points and I I was curious to know like

[29:51] » where his thoughts are. Um but I am ready to discuss it.

[29:56] » All right, >> we are all set.

[29:58] » Let's discuss it. >> Sure.

[30:00] » Who wants to go first? [clears throat]

[30:06] » My opinion >> is that we need

[30:13] to get it taken care of. And I feel like if we don't

[30:20] raise the rate enough, we're not going to meet our goal.

[30:25] And what do we do in the meantime? We don't have

[30:30] enough water and sewer capacity to enable um more people to come in at

[30:39] this time. And it would could be a long time

[30:43] » waiting for us to have the money to make that happen. And and then we lose

[30:50] income. >> And that's a good point. Yeah.

[30:54] » Yeah. And um I and I compare it with

[31:02] we went years and years not raising the rate

[31:06] » and look at what it got us. We have equipment that's in poor condition. We

[31:12] have poor morale on the department because of

[31:19] things not being where they should be >> financially

[31:23] » financially. And you know, I I feel like we we should

[31:29] have started raising those rates long before if we'd have known

[31:34] » Yeah. >> where it was going to end up. Not that,

[31:37] you know, I'm blaming anybody, but um and it was nice having those low weights

[31:43] for a long time, but it didn't get us anywhere.

[31:49] And um I guess I just feel like

[32:00] we we need to we would need to I feel like at least 12%

[32:06] I'd rather see the 15. We paid which um is that how you can't wait

[32:14] to give their opinion and do the study and I think John I'm not I can't speak

[32:20] for you but I think you were in agreement with them on how much it's

[32:26] going to take to get us to that goal at an appropriate time.

[32:31] » Well, it's timelines. So it just keeps moving.

[32:37] » Yep. >> The goal further and further.

[32:41] » Yep. >> So,

[32:43] » and in the meantime, we're not going to have capacity for growth.

[32:48] » So, yeah.

[32:50] » I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. I thought you were done.

[32:53] » Go ahead. >> Go ahead.

[32:54] » I I just John, is it true, too? And I just want to make sure we all understand

[33:01] the the increase in the rate is not just to address capacity.

[33:06] » No, it's to >> sorry bring

[33:12] you it's like you know the easiest example would be is why you get a

[33:18] different car after it's 20 years old. It becomes less reliable to drive to

[33:24] California from Michigan. So while there are newer parts of the system, you know,

[33:31] those parts are 20 years old now. If if we look at Perry Lakes, um you

[33:39] know, the the M52 project, those mains were put in in 2002.

[33:46] So that's 24 years there. A lot of the other 4 in are, you know, from the 60s

[33:54] and 70s. Um, so they're cast iron. It just keeps

[34:01] while we do the best we can, eventually you have to upgrade the system. And

[34:08] um, you know, if we, you know, I we don't have tons of complaints, but I

[34:14] just there was an example tonight cuz I have a flushed hydrant. So, we're not

[34:19] production water does not put iron back in the system because of the iron

[34:23] removal plant. But the old manes leech out iron in them and you have

[34:29] discoloration and I can't stop that. We are looking, we're still uh in the

[34:34] process of uh implementing the phosphate to sequester that for the copper to coat

[34:42] the pipes. So, um but that's that's not a long-term fix. It's a band-aid. It's

[34:47] what we were doing prior to the iron removal plant.

[34:52] So when you have some stuff that's 50 60

[34:58] years old eventually you have to do something and

[35:03] you know this is unfortunately where we're at

[35:07] » and in order to improve that water >> well you know

[35:11] » that >> I mean that's that's

[35:14] » the the water tower project and increase in main size you know to to do that um

[35:23] you know capacities we're we're like limited out pretty much right now. We

[35:27] have just barely what we have to work with in town with uh we can add a few

[35:33] connections at like vacant lots in town for us uh but nothing nothing of a big

[35:39] consumer. So,

[35:45] so just I just want to make sure I'm following. I have one question. The 15%

[35:52] that we are proposing to the that OM came up with

[35:57] » will allow us to have reserves in the next in 5 years from now if something

[36:03] was to happen. Is that correct? >> Is that my understanding? as as far as a

[36:08] dollar amount. >> Dollar amount.

[36:12] » So, it's not going to whatever the increase the excess is going to come

[36:17] over each year. Uh I don't remember what it is. Is it roughly 50,000 or so?

[36:26] » Right. >> Yes.

[36:30] » You know, at the end of even if it was a hundred, at the end of five years,

[36:34] that's half a million dollars. >> Mhm.

[36:38] You know, right now we have uh a grant in a

[36:43] congressional grant for Keaney Street to increase that from uh four to an eight

[36:50] » I believe from M52 or Main Street to uh Watkins

[36:57] and that is almost 800,000 >> two blocks.

[37:03] I mean I once you start digging I can't that the price is just what it is you

[37:09] know to connect all those services >> um you know I I understand you know

[37:15] but >> no

[37:18] » eventually I I guess so half a million dollars so

[37:23] » so that would be one one block to replace and

[37:26] » well no I'm not talking about the cost of to replace what when

[37:30] » okay >> in the end of 5 years. This will give us

[37:34] half a million dollar extra in case something breaks. Is that true? Am I

[37:39] understanding? >> That would be a true statement. Yes,

[37:41] » that would be a true. >> But there's a lot of ifs that would go

[37:45] into that. Well, >> if we don't have something else that

[37:48] breaks and needs to be fixed and if something else

[37:52] » but that's part of the perip [clears throat]

[37:55] the but well yes we're not I'm not going to hold you to it but but in theory

[38:01] that's what we're talking about right >> yes

[38:05] » now I think 15% is too much

[38:11] » and I think instead of having the half a million

[38:17] » in 5 years, we can go 10.

[38:23] So it' be 6 and 12% increase versus 15 because any extra money that we are

[38:30] saving technically we're not saving um any extra money that we're

[38:38] keeping for the water for later. Sure. But the need is not there necessarily

[38:45] right this minute. So we're still going to be waiting to maybe make improvement

[38:51] on this or improvement on that. But that doesn't have to happen in times where

[38:56] gas is about $4 and a half a gallon and consumers is increasing and every I I

[39:02] feel 15% is a stretch. I do believe it needs it. I'm not

[39:08] against the increase, but I think 15% is way too much based on my perception

[39:17] to uh to the situation and to how people are living.

[39:23] » Camal, I hear what you're saying. It I mean, we all live here. We all have to

[39:28] have to pay this. Um but OM

[39:34] are engineers who do this for a living. They have special education

[39:42] backgrounds and work backgrounds that have put a lot of time, like almost two

[39:49] years into this study to determine how much we need to increase our rates

[39:57] in order to have our income exceed our outgo.

[40:05] » Absolutely. And that is what they suggested.

[40:09] » That's the key. Suggested. And we really don't know if something will break or

[40:14] not. And those are the two things that's making me come, well, do we really need

[40:20] to increase it right this minute? >> Well, it will break. I mean, that's

[40:23] matter. >> Yeah. I'm I only mentioned something

[40:26] might break because you were trying to pin him down to say yes, we'll have that

[40:30] much money in there. Well, we will if nothing additional happens is what I

[40:37] meant. >> This money is for maintenance and repair

[40:42] and improvement where needed. That that is what will need to be done. I mean,

[40:49] they did the study, they presented the information saying based on our

[40:53] experience with this type of material, in some cases, you're past the life of

[40:59] this. You're just lucky that it hasn't gone bad before now

[41:05] and this is only going to last a few more years and this will only last five

[41:11] more years. you know, so I mean they put it all

[41:16] I thought very clearly in their report. I I think we should go

[41:24] at least to 12 like Mindy said 15 would put us in a better position, but I think

[41:32] if we go any less than that, we're just shooting ourselves in the foot.

[41:36] » Yeah. We don't want to end up in the same situation A was in.

[41:39] » Oh, absolutely. and and it's going to be a hit no matter what. So, it's going to

[41:43] be a hit now or a hit then when you know we're in trouble because we don't have

[41:47] enough money. >> Um, you know, I'm not a fan of the 15

[41:52] either. I mean, money is tight for all of us.

[41:55] » Um, is there any way we could, you know, do 12 now and revisit later, you know,

[42:02] at some point? >> John, do you want to address that? It's

[42:07] up to you guys how you want to proceed with it.

[42:11] It if you go for a couple years, I mean, I

[42:16] I understand. I don't I don't like standing here having to do this because

[42:22] it's spending other people's money on stuff, but in order to run the system

[42:27] over time, when you put it in the ground, the clock

[42:32] starts ticking on it. So,

[42:37] you know, there if I had a crystal ball and could

[42:41] tell everybody, hey, this is, you know, and I I'm not being uh making light of

[42:47] anything. I mean, I don't like big increases. I I honestly don't. I mean,

[42:54] historically, uh there have been times where they were

[42:59] proud not to do increases in this town. And is that somewhat a detriment today?

[43:07] You know, um the amounts that we're that I I did a and it and it probably wasn't

[43:14] the best rate study. Um but the 2 and a half% that we've been doing for a while

[43:20] on water and sewer um at the time was keeping up kind of with inflation. And

[43:28] as we seen the last 5 years, things have changed. Um [clears throat]

[43:32] so you know unfortunately it looks like

[43:37] we're falling behind. How much further? I I don't know. Um it there was a time

[43:42] when that same project that I was talking about on Keiny if we'd had done

[43:46] it 10 15 years ago would have been two or 300,000.

[43:54] I don't I don't see prices dropping significantly.

[44:00] That's just an example. I mean, you know, uh to put to put another well in

[44:05] to expand the water treatment plant, um to move into the new well field, um you

[44:12] know, it's just the system is becoming aged.

[44:16] Not every single component, but a lot of the components in the water and the

[44:21] wastewater. Um you know, so that's that's where I'm coming from.

[44:29] Uh I guess I don't know what else to say.

[44:33] Uh how what type of percent you know

[44:41] » I don't I don't think there is enough difference between 12 and 15% to not go

[44:46] out >> enough difference to the consumer. Is

[44:49] that what you mean? Yeah. Um Shirley did come up with water sewer comparisons

[44:55] that compared the city of Perry's um charges that we charge now to um other

[45:03] municipalities um true the city of AASO who's one of

[45:09] those comparisons is a lot bigger than us and when you have that many more

[45:14] people sharing the cost of running the system it's going to be less less

[45:21] per person than the number of people we have sharing the

[45:26] cost of the system in the size of our city. Um, but we're not really very much

[45:32] different if you look at those comparisons. The city of Williamston

[45:39] just very close again um and would still be

[45:45] more than what we would charge um >> even if we did a 15% increase

[45:50] » even if we did a 15% increase. Correct. >> And those if if you look at those,

[45:56] you'll also see that they include water in, sewer out, where our charges,

[46:03] there's not a separate charge for sewer out. There's just the separate charge

[46:08] for water in. Um, village of OID, again, it's just a a little more. City

[46:16] of Duran is also more. at than where we would be if we raised our rates to 15%.

[46:24] I mean, we're way under where they are now or where we are now.

[46:30] » Um I and I don't want to always just look

[46:35] at what everybody else is doing to decide what we should do. I'm just

[46:39] saying that other cities, other municipalities

[46:44] are still charging more than we would be at a 15% increase

[46:49] » and we don't want to find ourselves in trouble and be in a position we have to

[46:53] keep coming back and asking for money. >> Yes, that's not good.

[46:56] » And to answer your whoseever was it your question, Kamal, can we change it in the

[47:01] future? Absolutely. I mean, we can establish it for say a fiveyear period

[47:07] of time or a threeyear period of time and then see where we're at and then

[47:12] extend it or change it. I you know, none of this is written in stone. It it can

[47:19] be changed. >> I just don't want us to find ourselves

[47:25] in a few short years with equipment that's beyond

[47:32] and and and and I agree with you but I don't want to take that decision based

[47:36] on fear of the future. right now as of today things are working

[47:43] decently okay there's not much so so just just the timing of that increase I

[47:51] feel it's such a huge burden on the people that voted me in I don't know if

[47:56] I will go to 10% 6 and a half is is is what I found to make the most sense to

[48:05] to me from what I've been seeking. So,

[48:09] » and and you got your engineering degree plan.

[48:12] » I got it. I got it from the recommendations because a recommendation

[48:16] is a recommendation. Just because someone tells you go change this, this

[48:20] this in your car doesn't really mean that you're going to go and change it

[48:24] because it is working. Um like tires, they I think it comes with a

[48:32] 40,000 miles or 60,000 miles and they're recommended to change. You don't change

[48:37] it in 60,000. A lot of times people will go 150 on the same because they don't.

[48:43] It differs. I I just It's not about me being an engineer or not.

[48:48] » But it's about me comprehending what people are struggling with and about me

[48:53] understanding where we're at and where where I'd like to be. [clears throat]

[48:58] It's just a comfort. I I feel 15 10 is just a little

[49:06] it doesn't help everyone. I feel it's a I'm not saying you guys are bad for

[49:12] making that decision. It's a decision that someone has to make. I just don't

[49:16] feel confident taking a 15% to 10% jump. I think it's a little too expensive for

[49:23] the people. >> Can I just ask?

[49:26] » Absolutely. How long would you be willing to do the 6 and a half or so?

[49:30] Like if we said because my thought was and run it out for 6 years.

[49:36] » Absolutely. My thought was that extra money that's coming out of the five

[49:41] years. If it comes out in 10, it's still extra money. We're just prolonging the

[49:47] period of when we're going to get that amount. That's my thought. That's how

[49:51] I'm basing those numbers. Um I don't know if it's right or wrong. I just

[49:58] that's just my thought given given the price [clears throat] where people are

[50:03] like the cost of daily living. Um yeah

[50:08] » and I and I hear what you're saying based on the cost of living everything's

[50:13] high. Everything's way high. I understand that. I do. Um, but back in

[50:21] 1972, the cost of heating your house was way

[50:25] high. And so all of these charges were not raised then. They were kept low. And

[50:32] they were kept low in the 80s because it was a good thing to do. And so now, like

[50:38] Mindy said, we're in the same position that Cesa was in.

[50:43] I don't think we can do a good job for the residents of the city of Perry by

[50:50] keeping the rate so low now that we can't catch up ever and can't protect

[50:57] them at a time where we need to. >> That's right. I it if you looked at the

[51:03] and I'm sure everybody has but you know if you looked at the information that

[51:08] Megan provided based on OM's recommendations

[51:13] um I I felt that a 12 to 15% increase

[51:21] starting in July gave our residents enough heads up so they

[51:28] could make whatever budget adjustments ments they would need to make to start

[51:33] paying that increased rate in July. If we did that rate for

[51:40] five years, revisited it, it might be able to be

[51:45] dropped by then. It might be able to be dropped sooner

[51:51] and it could be dropped sooner. I I just can't see that a 12% increase

[51:59] is unaffordable. >> I I beg to differ. Not everyone has the

[52:05] same standard of of of living. Not everyone. There's a lot of people who

[52:09] are not able to afford living right now. >> But with a budget adjustment, perhaps

[52:14] they could. >> I don't see the money itself is not

[52:17] going to change. if someone's paying $200 in food or $150 to go to work or

[52:23] this is not going to change. As a matter of fact, it keeps on increasing every

[52:28] time [cough] gas prices or or whatever it is. Um, and

[52:33] that's why I want to buy them the extra time. I might not be doing much by by

[52:37] saying a six and a half or even a 7% but I I and the 7% that we're talking about

[52:45] versus the um the 10% at the annual cost it's not that much difference.

[52:54] Um it's going to be like 20 30,000 maybe.

[53:00] I wish I had it.

[53:10] » But if we were to do the if the 10% was five or seven,

[53:16] so if you were to say 7%. >> A 15% increase is $9.84 84 cents on the

[53:27] monthly water bill for just already just and that's that

[53:31] » on the base rate >> on the and that yeah and that includes

[53:35] » um the trash and the base which is not

[53:39] increasing it's just the the other things

[53:43] it's a 51 cent increase for water usage

[53:50] » so that 984 didn't include that 51 cents because know what somebody's going to

[53:55] use, right?

[54:03] » Smaller picture is

[54:08] there would be a total of $152,000 212.

[54:15] That would be the the price difference between in five years span between a 7%

[54:22] and a 10%. >> Let's talk about what the monthly rate

[54:25] is because you say we shouldn't increase it very much because of what people can

[54:31] afford. >> Let's look at what their monthly bill

[54:35] increases by. That's what Shirley was saying. Did you hear?

[54:38] » It's $984. >> 84.

[54:42] » Mhm. And that's for for for one month over

[54:48] five years. How much is that? >> I'm talking about the expense it is to

[54:53] the household. $9 more a month, >> how much it affects their right.

[55:01] » I I I understand, but someone has to talk about those people who cannot

[55:05] afford the $9.84 increase. Not everyone can afford it.

[55:09] And that's the thing that I think we're we're um not on the same page on.

[55:15] » Yeah, I guess we're not. >> Not everyone is able to afford a $5

[55:19] increase on the prices of gas, of milk, the prices of eggs, the prices of Not

[55:26] everyone is able to afford this far. And the $9.84

[55:32] might not be a big deal for for some people, but they might be a big deal for

[55:36] other people. someone who's on fixed income because they are retired. Uh

[55:41] what's the average age that we have in in Perry? I think the majority of them

[55:47] are retired. A lot of people are retired,

[55:49] » but they're not. You need to look at that because our household income is not

[55:54] in the low range. >> It's above average.

[55:58] » But those poor people need someone to talk for them. And I think I'm going to

[56:02] be that person if you're not willing to. Don't do that to me, Camal. That's

[56:07] really unfair. >> But but it's not fair for you to say $10

[56:11] everyone will be able to afford. I understand $10 a month is not that big a

[56:15] deal. I just don't believe that it is. $152,000. What will you do with $152,000

[56:23] in 5 years? >> Nothing.

[56:26] » Nothing. Right? That's the difference between the 7% and the 10%.

[56:37] That is the difference. 152,212.

[56:45] If my math is wrong, please let me know. >> I can't go with it.

[56:52] » And that's okay. And that is okay. I don't mind it. I'm just I I just feel

[56:58] it's a big jump. See, I I feel like I'm the person you're talking about. My

[57:03] finances are are very scary. Um my son's going to be moving in with me to help me

[57:08] because, you know, things are so tight. But even I don't have a problem with the

[57:14] $9 extra a month because you got to look at the big picture. I mean, we don't

[57:19] want to find ourselves in this in the city as being in trouble and we could

[57:25] end up being in trouble. It's, you know, it's not easy. It's

[57:30] going to hit me. I know I can't afford an extra $10 a month, but I'm going to

[57:35] have to pay you because I You got to look at big picture. We don't want to

[57:40] end up like a small, you know, and all of a sudden what if, God forbid,

[57:45] something does happen and we don't have that money saved up, we could find

[57:49] ourselves in real trouble. But I get what you're saying. I mean, but but are

[57:54] things ever going to get better? I mean, you know, things are expensive. I don't

[58:00] see that changing. People are going to be upset having to pay more. I don't see

[58:04] that changing either. Whether it's, you know, July or whether it's 5 years from

[58:09] now, no one's ever going to be happy to have to pay more money.

[58:12] » But, you know, we can't sacrifice the city

[58:17] because it's going to be hard for a few folks. And but honestly, at me being so

[58:23] poor, I can tell you $9 a month ain't going to kill me. And I think most

[58:28] people would kind of agree with that. Now, if you start talking $29 a month,

[58:32] okay, now that I'm now I'm on board with you because, you know, that would be too

[58:38] much of a hardship, but I don't think $9 a month is that big of a hardship. you

[58:44] know, at the end of the day, >> could we

[58:48] could we do like a 10, a seven, a 10, a seven, something like that? Is that more

[58:57] » even if it appealing? >> I mean, it's

[59:01] my original question was $152,000 that's extra in the next five years.

[59:07] What will you do with it? that that's >> well I mean it's gonna get invested in I

[59:12] to name a particular thing it'll be roughly half of a well

[59:16] » to drill a well >> okay

[59:18] » let's just say that let's say it's 300,000 to put in a new well

[59:22] » that's not really getting the water to the water treatment plant it's just

[59:27] pouring it in the ground building the wellhouse around it the pumps and

[59:31] everything that's roughly half of it

[59:36] this stuff is extreme extremely expensive and you know

[59:41] I wish it it was easier. Um you know and I I fully understand what you're saying.

[59:47] I I would love to be able to run the 2 and a half%

[59:54] » for however long. >> Let's talk about that $150,000.

[1:00:00] What would he do with it? Well, he said it's not enough to accomplish the Well,

[1:00:05] however, if we applied for a grant, if the city applied for a grant

[1:00:11] and it was a 50/50 match, then we've got 150,000 to match the

[1:00:19] legislature grant for a total of 300,000 to do the new well. So, would we be able

[1:00:28] to use that? Yeah, I think we would.

[1:00:33] » That's a really good point. >> Yeah, legislative grant money is not

[1:00:39] absolutely free. Um, this grant we've applied for for Keiny Street has a

[1:00:46] matching amount and we had to have Megan look into that. How much of a match

[1:00:52] could we do? and she did a whole lot of digging and said, "Well, we could do

[1:00:58] this much." And so that's what we put in our application as being able to match.

[1:01:05] And there's always almost always matching money

[1:01:10] because truly we'd have to raise our rates

[1:01:16] way higher to be able to pay for all this ourselves.

[1:01:21] So, what we're trying to accomplish is to have enough money in the bank

[1:01:27] to accomplish it perhaps through matching money for a legislative grant

[1:01:31] of some kind. And you never know if you're going to get that anyway. So, if

[1:01:36] you don't get the grant, then you're still saving and still saving.

[1:01:41] Um, we've been told that we have issues with one of our wells. How do we know

[1:01:47] how long that's going to last? We don't. We are based on the information that OM

[1:01:53] provided in their study. We're holding on by however many

[1:02:00] threats. Um, but we need to be setting money aside to address these things. I

[1:02:06] mean, >> we're going to achieve

[1:02:08] » it doesn't help the city people who are paying 6% or 12% if they don't have

[1:02:16] water anyway. Um we need to be able to accomplish what we're supposed to

[1:02:24] accomplish in providing water and sewer services to the city. And yes, it would

[1:02:29] have helped if the rates would have been raised

[1:02:34] more in the past, but they weren't. And um I'm not like Mindy said blaming

[1:02:42] anybody for that. It was fairly common for that to happen. But if we keep doing

[1:02:47] that, we're just kicking the can down the road.

[1:02:49] » That's right. That's right. >> I mean, if and I'll I'll confess with

[1:02:54] Kristen. I mean, my husband and I are both retired and uh

[1:03:01] we don't do a lot of things that other people that we know and have known for

[1:03:06] years and years do. We don't take long vacations. We don't go to a lot of

[1:03:12] movies. We don't spend extra money on, you know, things that other people spend

[1:03:18] because we don't have it. We try to keep money in the bank for emergencies. But

[1:03:25] yes, we could pay another $9 a month, an additional nine,

[1:03:30] possibly even 15 if we, you know, needed to. But if it was 30,

[1:03:37] there might be a problem. >> Then we're going to have a conversation.

[1:03:40] » That's right. Yeah. But I I recognize, Kamal, I do. I recognize that we do have

[1:03:46] people in our community. They're in every community.

[1:03:49] » And Sue, I didn't mean to call you out in that way either in that meeting. I'm

[1:03:55] just I'm just really struggling with that with a 15 person. We do have

[1:04:00] provisions if you're not aware of them um for people who are financially

[1:04:07] uh challenged to be able to get assistance to cover their water bill.

[1:04:15] They just have to come to the city and talk to Shirley about it.

[1:04:24] » I haven't heard you. What do you think?

[1:04:32] » Basically agree. I basically agree with everybody what everybody saying, but

[1:04:38] I'm all for the $9.84 a month.

[1:04:45] » 15%. >> What is that?

[1:04:48] » 15%.

[1:04:55] Well, if I'm understanding correctly from Shirley and Megan,

[1:05:00] not only do we need to do what the motion in our minutes says is to set the

[1:05:07] date for the public hearing, but along with that, we have to set a rate,

[1:05:14] » which I did not write a motion for. I'm sorry.

[1:05:21] So if we have more discussion, please feel free to bring it. Otherwise,

[1:05:28] feel free to make a motion based on the rate recommendation

[1:05:36] for the water sewer rate.

[1:05:40] I move that we set a public hearing for October 1st, 2026 at 7:15 p.m. to

[1:05:48] discuss a possible 15%

[1:05:52] increase in water sewer rates. Is that right?

[1:05:58] » That's good. >> Do we have a second?

[1:06:00] » A second.

[1:06:05] » I understand. I do too do believe me.

[1:06:13] » It's been moved by Mindy, seconded by Kristen.

[1:06:18] » All those in favor of that motion, please signify by saying I.

[1:06:23] » I. >> No.

[1:06:24] » Have to wait a minute. >> Those opposed? Nay.

[1:06:28] » Nay. >> Now we need to take a roll call vote.

[1:06:34] » Mindy Gabby. >> Yes.

[1:06:38] Kristen Fable. >> Yes.

[1:06:42] » Mr. Paul. >> Yes.

[1:06:47] » Kamalazi. >> No.

[1:06:54] » We do have

[1:06:58] enough votes to carry this forward. So, the motion passes.

[1:07:09] Thank you for all of your discussion and all of your concerns.

[1:07:14] And this will go to a public hearing then for October 1st. That will be

[1:07:20] during the October 1st council meeting. Surely we'll post this public hearing

[1:07:29] and um hopefully we'll have people come to share their

[1:07:35] thoughts.

[1:07:39] Moving to our next agenda item number four, we have an elevator contractor

[1:07:46] discussion.

[1:07:58] Um, so I presented this a few months ago. I think it was um

[1:08:04] a um

[1:08:08] Oh, I'm sorry. Something from Schindler. They they sent me to sign and um to

[1:08:14] receive like a 5% discount for a 10-year extension on a contract. Um Bob wanted

[1:08:21] me to look around and find um maybe a couple different quotes. Uh I was able

[1:08:28] to find one quote and if you guys want to wait for Bob for

[1:08:33] this because he was the one that asked to wait. We most certainly can do that.

[1:08:38] Um but I did. The company that I got a hold of was Otis Elevator. Uh they

[1:08:43] provided me with a quote. I emailed our current contract to um the attorney the

[1:08:50] quote that they sent me and he provided this recommendation

[1:08:56] and I don't know if everybody's read it or not. Um but he basically is saying

[1:09:01] that we can end our contract. I have to give them a a written notice just like

[1:09:06] it says in the con in the in our contract um be no later than October

[1:09:12] 3rd. So, we would have to decide um at the meeting on October 1st,

[1:09:18] but they are proposing

[1:09:23] um $2,520 per year.

[1:09:28] There is a possible 5 to 7% increase with with each year in that contract. Um

[1:09:36] I think I put that in your packet. Did I put that in there? Do you see that? I

[1:09:42] don't remember. >> It just says what? Did I Did I give that

[1:09:45] to you? See? >> No. Okay. So, if right now we're paying

[1:09:53] uh 3 thou we paid $3,87.11. That was for our service from February

[1:10:01] 1st to January 31st of 2027. >> And that's with Schindler.

[1:10:05] » That's with Schindler. So, we would be renewing. We would not be renewing. We

[1:10:10] would be entering into a new contract with Otis Elevator $2,520.

[1:10:16] If we did this and we went for the seven years, even after the I'm sorry, 5 years

[1:10:22] with the 7% increase that they say could happen every year, we'd still be under

[1:10:28] the $3,800. So, it' be 330321. >> Does does the Schindler contract have

[1:10:34] the same provision for increasing every year?

[1:10:36] » Increase every year. Yes. Uh last year in 2025 we paid 36.98.91

[1:10:46] 2024 244183 and it just gets lower

[1:10:52] each each month by then or each year. So it started out in 2020 at 254328.

[1:11:03] So, we're it's a better

[1:11:06] » Oh, Otis is a well-known um elevator company. I mean, they've been in

[1:11:11] business for an awfully long time. Um, just to say that out loud.

[1:11:19] Does anybody have any discussion regarding either of these contracts?

[1:11:23] » I think those are like the main two. Um, I don't think there's a whole lot of

[1:11:29] competition other than those two. So >> I did the one the school said they use

[1:11:34] » Yeah, but they never called me back. So I don't want to

[1:11:38] » is not the one. >> Yeah.

[1:11:40] » Um or something like that or >> So you had trouble finding other places

[1:11:46] to give you >> well

[1:11:48] » bids. >> The maintenance supervisor from the

[1:11:51] school came in and I asked him who they use because I totally forgot they had an

[1:11:56] elevator. Megan told me and he told me. So, I reached out to them, but I just

[1:12:01] never got a response. And it's been a few weeks. So, and I just This has been

[1:12:06] sitting here for I feel like a couple months at least since I presented it at

[1:12:12] the last meeting, which >> Well, I think you've done what Bob

[1:12:16] asked. I mean, he asked to compare this to others. And so you have attempted to

[1:12:22] find other companies and did eventually get this uh bid or quote from Otis, but

[1:12:30] never got a response from the third one. And just so you know, I did all the

[1:12:35] homework first. I came down, I took pictures of the elevator room. I emailed

[1:12:40] them to the lady. She sent somebody out after she got the pictures. they came

[1:12:44] and looked at it to make sure that the 2520 per for the first year what she'd

[1:12:49] be able to stick to that you know if we had different I don't know anything

[1:12:53] about elevators other than they go up and down so um so they they came out

[1:13:00] they looked at it and they're still with the same price so they didn't increase

[1:13:04] it after coming out and looking at it >> so the Otus contract would be for a

[1:13:10] duration of five years

[1:13:15] So I had a question on page three of the okay the price adjustment.

[1:13:24] Um the first sentence it says the the contract price is subject to increase in

[1:13:30] response to increases to operational administrative labor and other industry

[1:13:37] related economic factors. Is that typical?

[1:13:41] I had Justin look at this. I He um

[1:13:47] » I don't know. >> Okay. So, he didn't feel that was

[1:13:51] » he didn't say um

[1:13:56] let's see.

[1:14:00] He just says that if we wish to terminate and or not renew a Schindler

[1:14:04] maintenance agreement, I recommend that the city city send a written notice of

[1:14:09] termination. very sad. Um,

[1:14:22] yeah, it doesn't really say. So, and my other question was on page

[1:14:30] six, the exclusions. I think that's probably the same answer.

[1:14:36] He didn't say that. I didn't see there was a problem.

[1:14:48] So it's say so I I kind of like feel like that's kind of like maintenance

[1:14:52] item or um if if the panel falls off I will have to pay to fix you know like if

[1:15:00] a ceiling falls down they're not that's not covered under their maintenance

[1:15:04] agreement. as like an extra. >> They're maintaining they're maintaining

[1:15:09] the >> Yes.

[1:15:11] » motors, the you know the engine, >> right?

[1:15:14] » The stuff that makes it run. >> So that would be an additional

[1:15:17] » like I remember one time I think something was wrong with the call box

[1:15:22] inside the elevator. It wasn't working and we had to pay to have that repaired.

[1:15:30] Um yeah, right here. And so, and don't ask me what it was because it was in

[1:15:36] 2022, but it's um my note in accounts payable was elevator repair to due to

[1:15:44] power fail failure and it was almost $900. So, whatever happened that was not

[1:15:50] that was out of the maintenance um portion of their contract.

[1:15:58] » I didn't really explain this whole thing very well, so I'm sorry.

[1:16:01] » No, you didn't fine. I understood it. >> [laughter]

[1:16:05] » Does anybody have other questions for

[1:16:15] » And remember when I So I did actually go back and ask

[1:16:23] uh Schindler the 5% discount any of the discount 2% 3% or 5% discount.

[1:16:32] They're giving us a discount, but that doesn't mean they're not going to raise

[1:16:36] it their five. So, it's not really even a discount. I don't think you

[1:16:40] » If they raise it 5% and they give us a 5% discount, we're paying the same

[1:16:44] amount. >> Yeah.

[1:16:46] » I think it's kind of just a play on words where Oh, yeah.

[1:16:53] » Sign that. So,

[1:16:58] » but if you guys want to wait till Bob's here, that's totally fine. I don't have

[1:17:01] a problem with it. that it's just sitting there and I'll just put it on

[1:17:05] the agenda for next the 17th. >> As long as nothing happens that we

[1:17:13] » we want to change. >> Well, but if we meet and make the

[1:17:18] decision on the 17th, she has time to notify Schindler that we're canceling

[1:17:24] that contract and we have time then to enter into the contract

[1:17:28] » no later. Yep. No later than October 3rd or no earlier than October 3rd but no

[1:17:36] later than November 2nd is what it says. So I actually have until November.

[1:17:40] » So we do still have >> Yeah. And so and remind me how much are

[1:17:43] we paying Schindler? >> We are pay we paid Schindler

[1:17:47] for the last contract. Sorry, >> 3,87

[1:17:53] I think it was 11. Okay. And 11 cents. Yep.

[1:17:56] » I don't know where I just had that.

[1:18:00] And Otis's is 2520. >> Right. Right.

[1:18:04] » So even after the five years, say we went with Otus, even after the five

[1:18:09] years, if they increase their rate every year 7%, we would still only be paying

[1:18:15] 30 I don't want to say only 3303, but >> less.

[1:18:20] » It's still less than what we're paying right now.

[1:18:22] to shindle >> to

[1:18:26] » what do you think about waiting for >> that's a big difference

[1:18:35] I >> I think it's pretty obvious but that's

[1:18:38] up to you guys absolutely >> whether you want to vote on that tonight

[1:18:42] or if you want to table it that's up to you [snorts]

[1:18:47] » you need to decide >> okay

[1:18:51] » I either way. >> I think yeah, I could go either way, but

[1:18:53] I feel like we could vote on it. >> All right. I move that we approve the

[1:18:56] elevator service code from Otus Elevator for a period beginning January 1st, 2027

[1:19:03] through December 31st, 2031 in the amount of $2,520

[1:19:12] for the first year and annual increase of 5 to 7% each following year. Uh we

[1:19:18] authorize city clerk to sign the contract.

[1:19:24] » Looking for a second. >> Second.

[1:19:28] » We have a motion from Kamal, seconded by MNE. All those in favor of that motion,

[1:19:32] please signify by saying I. >> I.

[1:19:35] » Those opposed, nay. Motion passes.

[1:19:40] Our next item on the agenda um is a city hall door replacement. And we're not

[1:19:47] ready for that. Is that right, John? Talk to us about

[1:19:50] » I want to move it to the October 1st meeting. Okay. Whatever the date would

[1:19:54] be. Is that okay? >> Sure. So to the October 1st meeting.

[1:20:03] » I move that we table the city hall door replacement code discussion to October

[1:20:08] 1st. uh and the next meeting.

[1:20:15] » Second. Do I have a second? Mindy. We have a motion from Kamal, seconded by

[1:20:20] Mindy. All those in favor of that motion, please signify by saying I.

[1:20:25] » I. >> Those opposed? Nay. Motion passes.

[1:20:33] » Council, is there any other business to come before council at this time?

[1:20:38] Council

[1:20:43] discussions or observations.

[1:20:48] We have any further public comment? Yes, John.

[1:20:50] » Yeah. First of all, I want to thank council's

[1:20:55] very healthy conversation regarding the rights to the water sewer increase. I

[1:21:01] think it's pretty healthy and everybody was very honest with their opinions. I

[1:21:06] have a suggestion. When this is presented to the public,

[1:21:12] 15% is going to look like a a lot. $9, $6, it's 15%. Anything going up 15%

[1:21:22] people are going to sit back and not take it. Well,

[1:21:26] um, my suggestion is you need to find some compromise

[1:21:32] that you've searched out, you found ways to reduce that utility bill, this

[1:21:40] utility bill been a crawl up my sleeve, whatever, ever since I've come here by

[1:21:48] taking this and making it based on usage, which is a nice way to do in

[1:21:52] terms of fairness, But it takes it off the table for tax deduction deduction.

[1:21:59] You can't deduct what you pay utilities if you are. It's against the law. The

[1:22:05] IRS does not allow a deduction for usage of water, usage of a service that you

[1:22:14] pay when you go. if you've tacked it on as part of the bill and I'm sure there's

[1:22:21] a way you can add it into the bill how you aortion it on the bill and I

[1:22:26] understand that becomes complicated because obviously if the house is worth

[1:22:31] more it you know it's going to it's going to

[1:22:34] pay more than if the house is less regardless of usage

[1:22:38] » not on water sewer no >> no no what I'm saying that's the way it

[1:22:41] is now I agree right now it's based on actual usage

[1:22:46] But but it's not John. That's what I'm trying to say. The there's a base rate

[1:22:51] for water. There's a base rate for sewer. Yeah.

[1:22:54] » Then there's an additional charge for water usage.

[1:22:58] » Right. What I'm saying is that it's not tax deductible. Now,

[1:23:03] » if it was on the the actual bill, I think it becomes tax deductible. Just a

[1:23:10] thought. That's that's that's aside from my my reason for m making these

[1:23:15] comments. Look for some way you can offer people

[1:23:21] an offset. Whatever it is, you're saying it's going

[1:23:25] to be about nine bucks a month more, whatever.

[1:23:29] If you can find $3 a month, $4 a month in that utility bill. I mean, we used to

[1:23:36] not charge for this waste pickup. All of a sudden about four or five years ago we

[1:23:42] started charging for the waste pickup waste launch that used to be just

[1:23:46] included I guess. Think about some of those items. Could

[1:23:52] you save or offset a few dollars in the utility bill so

[1:23:59] that you're saying well you know this is this and this.

[1:24:03] It would just PR work. It would be well I think it be a suggestion. So I leave

[1:24:09] that with you >> and we appreciate that suggestion. We'll

[1:24:12] have our treasurer look into the possible tax.

[1:24:17] » Any compromise >> trail would be I think a nice gift.

[1:24:22] » Yeah. OM engineering will be here for [music] that meeting and they'll do

[1:24:27] their presentation um their PowerPoint showing um you know the the rates and

[1:24:36] what we need to accomplish and how each rate matches up or doesn't falls below

[1:24:42] or above. I think that helps to explain it a little bit. But I hear what you're

[1:24:47] saying. I just don't know. I don't know any any possibility, but we'll ask Megan

[1:24:53] to kind of look into that. Shirley might have some thoughts. I don't know if John

[1:24:57] does, but we'll certainly look into those ideas.

[1:25:02] » Any other public comment? Mark, did you have anything else you wanted to say?

[1:25:07] Okay. >> I [clears throat] laugh, but I'm not

[1:25:09] going to say it. All right. [laughter]

[1:25:14] » What agenda. >> If surely could could mention the $9

[1:25:20] increase, it would be easier to comprehend how much we're

[1:25:26] talking here. >> Yes.

[1:25:28] » Well, I I think like the numbers that they're that are presented, they're

[1:25:33] they're just big numbers. It's like a it's the big picture.

[1:25:37] » It makes it more palatable. to for me to hear it broken down,

[1:25:42] » right? >> Because then because then you think,

[1:25:44] "Oh, I can do that." >> But so yeah, I agree with you. That

[1:25:50] might help. >> Sorry.

[1:25:54] » No, that's a good thought. >> Interrupted.

[1:25:58] » Any any other thoughts, council, you'd like to share?

[1:26:02] Our next agenda items? Um maybe we could get an update on the data center

[1:26:08] moratorum next time. >> Oh yes.

[1:26:11] » Um and we are going to address a proposed

[1:26:16] change in our standing committees. Um it after looking at it, Shirley and I um

[1:26:25] and Megan were in discussion as to whether we still needed the

[1:26:31] pension committee. They've not met since I've been mayor and that's been six

[1:26:36] years. >> And so we talked to John because he's

[1:26:39] the city employee. So we're going to put that on the agenda for discussion next

[1:26:44] time to perhaps eliminate that committee.

[1:26:48] And I'm hoping that we'll have appointments to the planning commission.

[1:26:53] So please, if anybody is um interested in serving on the planning commission,

[1:26:59] please let someone at city hall know. Um and council please give consideration to

[1:27:06] sitting on the ordinance committee and let me know if you are. So I think

[1:27:12] that's all. >> Where will the moratorum updates come

[1:27:16] from? >> Surely she's the zoning administrator.

[1:27:19] » Okay. Well will ordinance committee should meet and

[1:27:26] » Okay. I think I think the ordinance committee should meet because it's an a

[1:27:31] zoning ordinance and then we'll discuss what we want how we want to approach

[1:27:36] that I guess. >> So the zoning administrator is asking

[1:27:39] for the ordinance committee to >> Okay.

[1:27:42] » I just didn't find out what happened until we had all of our in

[1:27:46] » Oh well I think I have like some suggestions but I should probably check

[1:27:54] with the attorney and make and Yes. >> I mean, I'm looking at some stuff.

[1:28:01] » Okay. I will I will give it to him. >> Okay. Well, I I'll ask him. It might not

[1:28:07] be a quick answer, but I'll ask him on Tuesday.

[1:28:11] » Okay. >> All right.

[1:28:14] » Anything else? Anything else for next agenda?

[1:28:18] Anybody? Anybody going on? >> Then our meeting is adjourned. It is

[1:28:24] 8:28.

September 3, 2026 Perry City Council Meeting

Transcript